1
25
189
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/495/17734/PCollerAS17010001.1.jpg
5ffaddc4352c6ac5f002c52ba619a674
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Coller, Allan Stanley
A S Coller
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Coller, AS
Description
An account of the resource
17 items. An oral history interview with Allan Coller (1924, 1874018 Royal Air Force). Also a number of other items associated with the Air Cadets and his service in Sri Lanka and India including a scrapbook of photographs.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Allan Coller and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
AS Coller Scrapbook Page 1
Description
An account of the resource
Three annotated items:
Item 1 : Photograph of air raid shelter with pets
caption 1 'Air Raid Shelter constructed by a firm called "Troy" in 1938. Left [undecipherable] It was 16' deep with a poisen [sic] gas free escape hatch chamber.'
caption 2
'Just before 2nd World War
10, West Heath Avenue Golders Green London NW11
Some animals understand to keep together
Just before 2nd World War 1938
Pekenese [sic] (Chinky) Rabbit (Wilfred) Cat (Timy)
Taken near our air raid shelter'.
Item 2 is photograph of a group of air cadets on parade in a street. They are being inspected by a civilian in a suit and three officers. It is captioned 'I joined the Air Training Corps in Jan 1941'.
Item 3 is the cover of a Civil Defence leaflet. entitled 'Some things you should know if war should come'. Public Information Leaflet No.1, July 1939.
It is captioned 'The 2nd World War started at 1100 hrs on the 3rd of Sept 1939.'
Format
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One sheet from a scrapbook
Language
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eng
Type
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Photograph
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCollerAS17010001
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
A S Coller
Great Britain. HM Government. Lord Privy Seal's Office
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1938
1939
Air Raid Precautions
animal
civil defence
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/221/3363/PCampbellKWP1601.1.jpg
46f4ce48d53bda56bbcf7a7e51feba7b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/221/3363/ACampbellKW160604.2.mp3
4ec1a402c3e766446124357837dccd8a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Campbell, Keith William
Keith William Campbell
Keith W Campbell
Keith Campbell
K W Campbell
K Campbell
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with Keith William Campbell (1923 - 2019, 423220 Royal Australian Air Force) and a diary he kept as a prisoner of war.<br /><br /> A further collection about Keith Campbell <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2083">here.</a><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Keith William Campbell and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-04
2016-05-18
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Campbell, KW
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive is with Keith Campbell, a 466 Squadron Halifax bomb aimer during World War Two. The interview is taking place at the War Memorial’s theatre in Canberra. We’re here at the War Memorial for a Bomber Command Commemoration that will take place tomorrow. It is the 4th of June 2016. My name’s Adam Purcell. Keith, we’ll start from the beginning if you don’t mind. Can you tell me something of your early life and what you were doing before the war?
KC: Before the war I went to school [laughs] Silly question. I finished my leaving certificate at school. And in 1939 the war had just broken out and like all youngsters of sixteen I couldn’t get in the Air Force soon enough. I wanted to get in the Air Force because my father had been in the Australian Flying Corps in the First War. So obviously I had to follow his footsteps. And when I became seventeen [pause while coughing] Excuse me. Sorry about that. At seventeen I applied to join the Air Force Reserve, which I did and for the next, oh six or eight months myself and [coughing] excuse me, got a sore throat. Six or eight others learned aircraft recognition, basic trigonometry which was all done at school anyway. And Morse. Somehow or other, we had to get up to ten words a minute in Morse. Initially it seemed an impossible task. The lines seemed to be a collection of dots and dashes. Every sign you saw you reduced it to Morse. However, in due course we obtained proficiency in Morse and the other things like the aircraft recognition. In May 1942 I was duly called up for service at Number 2 ITS at Bradfield Park, Sydney. ITS was an Initial Training School where all raw recruits came to be sorted out and hopefully made into something resembling an Air Force type. There’s also [pause] also the categorisation as to what you were going to be. Pilot, navigator, bomb aimer or whatever. I was selected to be a pilot and was looking forward to going to initial, Elementary Training School. And one morning in the end of, I think it was July or August [coughing] Oh dear. I’m sorry about that.
AP: That’s alright. Have another drink if you like.
KC: On parade the CO came out and said, ‘There’s a shortage of observers in the Canadian schools. Anyone that likes to volunteer will be off to Canada within a week.’ The temptation was too great so I volunteered and we were off to Canada in a couple of weeks. Went down to Hobart where we went aboard the French liner Ile de France which had been converted to a troop ship and sailed across the Pacific to New Zealand where we picked up some more Air Force people. And then our next stop was at Pearl Harbour where we stopped for a day. We weren’t allowed off the ship but we could see the devastation that the Japanese raid had caused to the American fleet. Things had recovered to a great extent but we could imagine just how great the attack was. There was one battleship upside down and it wasn’t a happy sight. Our next call was at San Francisco where [coughing] Oh dear.
[pause]
Where we caught the train from ‘Frisco to Vancouver. As it happened the train we took up was on Thanksgiving Day and on the buffet in the train we were entertained to a turkey dinner. Thanksgiving dinner. Which was a major occasion after the food in the, on the ship which was adequate but quite basic. Arrived in Vancouver and had three or four days to have a look around that beautiful city. Then off to Edmonton, over the Rockies. Caught the train and about four of us got on the back carriage where there was an observation platform. I think we spent most of the thirty six hours going to Edmonton just watching the magnificence of the Canadian Rockies.
AP: I’m just going to stop there for a minute.
[pause]
AP: Now. We were in San Francisco, I think. Catching a train.
KC: Going over the Rockies was a magnificent experience. Bright moonlight night and to see all that snow which we’d never, most of us had never seen before. It was a wonderful introduction to Canada. We arrived at the RCAF station at Edmonton where we spent another week being sorted out and see just where we were going. Who was going to be a navigator and who was going to be a bomb aimer? And subsequently I was categorised as a bomb aimer. And there were others, along with myself caught a train to Lethbridge in southern Alberta where the RCAF training station was situated. Lethbridge was quite a small Canadian town. Very pleasant. And we spent about five or six months there, I think it was, flying Ansons, and Battles, and whatever, bomb aiming and doing a bit of gunnery to fit us for the trials of squadron life. Having spent, finished the course at Lethbridge we were posted back. Back to Edmonton where the navigation school was. We spent another couple of months there flying over the vast expanse of Canadian prairies. If you got lost you just went down and the nearest railway station you read the sign and you knew where you were. We had a wonderful experience at Edmonton. It was a big Canadian city and the Canadian people were wonderful to us. The hospitality was outstanding and we made a lot of friends in Edmonton. After the, finishing our course we went to a Wings Parade. Apparently, this particular Wings Parade was quite an occasion publicity wise. An American colonel had been brought in to present our wings and we all duly lined up at the, in the sports centre. And after much ceremony we were all, each called out and given an Observer’s wing which we subsequently sewed on our uniform. Or if you had a girlfriend, she got the task. The next port of call was to be Halifax in eastern Canada. We had two weeks to get there and what we did in those two weeks was entirely up to ourselves. We had a leave pass, a pocketful of money, comparatively and myself and two or three others decided to go to New York. And we had a ball there. In Australian uniform it was impossible to buy a drink. If you went to a night club you were entertained by the top brass and it was a quite weary [laughs] After a week in New York we thought we’d better start going to Halifax. And on the way, we went to Niagara Falls and had the opportunity to see the Falls and go on the ride on the, oh, Lady of the Lake or whatever the steamer was called. And subsequently arrived at Halifax. Halifax was a very major port for Atlantic convoys and we had to wait there until a ship came that could take us to England. Spent about two weeks in Halifax and the people were very good to us but it was very much a service town. After a couple of weeks we were put on the French liner the Louis Pasteur which had been converted from a luxury liner to a troop ship and set sail for England. Having got out of the harbour I think they just pointed the ship at England, full speed ahead and off we went. Supposedly, and I’m sure it was, too fast for the submarines and we did a very rapid trip and arrived at Liverpool where we got off the ship and onto a train. It was evening. The contrast was dramatic. After the bright lights and plenty of everything in Canada here we were in England. It was dark, wet, foggy and crowded. And dark. Blackout was on. And we subsequently boarded a train and after many hours arrived at Brighton on the south coast where the RAAF had their accommodation for aircrew. Spent a couple of weeks in [pause] at Brighton waiting for a posting to the Advanced Flying Unit which gave us an opportunity to explore the countryside that’s around Brighton which was a very, very pleasant spot. And we availed ourselves of the opportunities to enjoy ourselves. And after a couple of weeks we ended up in a place called Pwhelli in North Wales where we did an advanced training course. Another pleasant spot. Quite a small town. And I think we were flying Ansons there. In due course we finished our training there and went to an OTU at Lichfield which was more, mainly an Australian OTU. They had a satellite station at Church Broughton which was quite nearby. And our course was posted to Church Broughton where we were to do our Operational Training Unit on Wellingtons. As a Wellington crew was five people and we were all bomb aimers a course of bomb aimers, roughly the equivalent number of pilots, navigators, wireless operators and gunners were put in this huge hangar and told go to it. Crew yourselves up. And fortunately, I happened to know one person there so we became a two, two part crew and within half an hour of talking to the other people we subsequently formed a crew. Seems a very haphazard way of selecting a crew for operations but oddly enough it worked out very well. Very few crews proved to be incompatible. We were very fortunate that we were all Australians and we had similar interests so we didn’t have problems. Spent some months at OTU and in our spare time we used to go to, the nearest city was Derby and patronized the local hostelries there. In due course we graduated and posted to the Conversion Unit where we converted from twin-engined Wellingtons to four-engined Halifax Mark 2s. And we spent about six weeks there and did a lot of flying around England which we found a very great difference to flying in Canada. There was fog. There was hundreds of other aircraft. There were, all over the countryside were aerodromes. And we just had to make sure we dodged the aircraft, found where we were and got back to base. Subsequently we did duly finish our training there and were posted to Number 466 Australian Squadron at Leconfield. Well, while we were at Conversion Unit the Halifax, being a four engine bomber, required an engineer and another gunner. The one, the engineer was a twenty four year old English chap and the gunner was a thirty three year old chap from Birmingham. He was the real grandfather of the crew. However, we all got on very well and went to Leconfield where we were allocated accommodation. We were very fortunate, Leconfield being a peacetime squadron and all the amenities that went with it. After living in Nissen huts for a considerable time it was pleasant to be in regular barracks. New Year in, at that stage it was New Year 1944 and we were the new ones on the squadron. We were flying, at that stage, the new Halifax Mark 3 with the radial motors and the rear designed tail plan which had eliminated a lot of the problems which the Mark 2 Halifax had. And after flying in the Mark 3s they were a magnificent aircraft from all points of view. From the pilot and the rest of the crew was very, well, not exactly comfortable but a lot, a lot less crowded than the previous ones we had.
AP: What was your position in the aircraft like? What did it look like? Can you, can you describe the bomb aimers area?
KC: Coming in the entrance to the aircraft near the tail you walked through the fuselage. There was a rest area. Bunks on both sides and two or three stairs up to the pilot’s deck where the pilot sat and there was a second dickie seat which we folded up and allowed us to go down four or five steps where the navigator sat, you know. Compartment. The, rather the wireless operator sat in a compartment just under the pilot. Next to him was the navigator and the bomb aimer was next to him. All the bombsights and everything else, the bomb panel was right at the front and that was my domain. The Mark 2 Halifaxes had a front turret which had been considered superfluous and in place of that there was a plastic front which gave a much better vision and also a Vickers guns which was really only a pop gun. On the squadron the navigational aids were the Gee and we also had H2S and between the navigator and myself he worked, had the Gee and did the navigation and I did the H2S. Which was a very compatible way of doing things. After a lot of local flying and getting used to operational conditions we finally did our first operation. I think it was the end of February, on a, on the first of what were called the French targets in France. This one happened to be at Trappes which was the rail junction outside of Paris. Subsequent operations consisted of quite a lot of trips like that to disable the communications such as bridges, rail junctions, road junctions and any other ways that would impede the ability of the German armies to get supplies both before and after D-Day. My first trip to Germany was to Stuttgart in southern Germany and we went, duly went to briefing and navigators and bomb aimers went off to a separate briefing to do their navigation. Draw up their charts and get things like that underway. And operational meal. Bacon and eggs. Then up with the rest of the crew and waited for the, drew our parachutes and waited for the trucks to take us out to the aircraft. Going to Germany for the first time was quite an adventure. We managed to keep on track and on time and in due course the target was a quarter of an hour away and I went down to the bombsight and set it up with the height, speed and did the bomb drop panel and got ready to direct the pilot. PFF had laid flares which we saw and I directed the aircraft through the bombsight to the flares. And a little to the left, a little to the right and we finally got on course, dropped our bombs and spent the next ten seconds, the longest ten seconds you’ll ever spend flying straight and level and waiting for the camera. As soon as that happened set course for home. And we had a fighter come in to say hello to us. Fortunately, the rear gunner saw him and we went off in a corkscrew and that discouraged him. He had easier ones to find. And we subsequently set course for England and the engineer said that we’d been using too much petrol. So we had to decide just what we were going to do. And when we got over the channel we decided it was much safer to land at one of the coastal aerodromes. So, we landed at, I think it was Ford, where we spent the night. Between us I think we had seven shillings so we went off for one round of drinks at the local pub. We went there and found everyone drinking cider at sixpence a pint. So that was wonderful. We had two or three drinks of cider decided to go home and we found out cider was a very powerful drink. However, we finally made it. We got, went back to the squadron and started on our trips together. I think there were two or three, without my logbook I don’t know who or what, just where we went but we did some more French targets. I think we did a trip to Happy Valley. Another one up to Kiel. And by that time it was the, in March and we were briefed for Nuremberg. And this was our first really major target. Well, Stuttgart was but Nuremberg was further. Further east. And it was, the briefing there was it was cloudy but the target would be clear and we were flying straight to the target from our crossing the coast which was most unusual and a lot of the navigators queried it because we were being too close to the German fighter ‘dromes. However, that was it and on. We pressed on and shortly over France we had a fighter attack and escaped from it but we found we were losing petrol at a very rapid rate. So, we had a conference and decided to turn back which we did and subsequently landed back at base with not a lot of petrol. Waited four or five hours until the rest of the aircraft came back and found what a disaster the night had been. The cloud cover that we were promised hadn’t eventuated. It was a bright moonlight night and all the fighters were up waiting. Flak was just aimed at us and subsequently it was a loss. I think it was ninety seven aircraft over Germany. Plus, the ones that were damaged and managed to stagger home. Fortunately, we did survive that one and I think the next one was to Happy Valley and more French trips and then where was it? Without my log book I don’t remember. But went to a Berlin trip but got to within ten or fifteen miles to Berlin and we were hit by a fighter and got badly damaged. So, we decided to, we decided to go home and, on the way back we lost an engine from fighter attack and we staggered back to base and lived to tell another day. That was another disaster raid. I think we lost seventy one aircraft on that one. That was [pause] but between there and June I did two or three trips a week. And with our six week, we got leave every six weeks which we enjoyed very much. And eventually came the big day. We didn’t, at the time we didn’t know it was D-Day but we were programmed to bomb a target fairly close inside the French coast. Coming back there was an armada of ships on the Channel. You could have jumped out of the aircraft in a parachute and not got your feet wet. There were battleships, row boats, destroyers, paddle steamers. Anything that could float was on its way to the beaches of Normandy. It was a [pause] we did fly over the same place again a few days later when the beach head had been established but it was a very major effort. After that we just continued on our tour. We had about twenty five trips up by then and looking forward to finishing. And on the 25th of July, 24th of July we were booked for a return trip to Stuttgart. So, all the usual briefings and instructions. Had a very uneventful trip into Stuttgart and did our bombing run successfully and kept our ten seconds to get the camera and set course for home. After about ten minutes we were happily flying on, anticipating a, an uneventful trip home when suddenly there was an explosion. At the time I thought it was a flak shell. Subsequently I found out that an aircraft had run into the back of us and the aircraft just exploded. I was in the front, in the bomb aimers position still. Doing the bombing check and as it happened, I had my parachute on. I always used to lean on my parachute but this night I was leaning on it and had inadvertently clicked on with the wriggling around. The next thing I knew I was flying, descending at about ten thousand feet with a parachute above me. And I have no recollection whatsoever of opening the parachute. I didn’t have the handle so somehow the explosion must have opened it and I landed in a field about twenty miles west of Stuttgart [pause] And took off my parachute harness and hid it under a tree with a parachute and took stock of things. I had all my usual escape kit and similar things and waited around to see if I could hear any, any of the other crew. But there was no sign of them at all. Seeing the way I got out I doubt very much if there would be any survivors. As it happened there weren’t [pause] It was about 3 o’clock in the morning. I could hear the other, the rest of the aircraft flying home and to a nice warm bed and a bacon and egg meal. Here was I stuck in a wheat field in, in the west of Stuttgart. Far from home. I spent the night in a forest and the next morning I checked up where I was on the map, or as near as I could. And the only nearest frontier was the Swiss border which was seventy or eighty mile away. So, I made for that. So, I spent the day in the forest and when the evening came I started walking and went through a village and there was a village pump. So I filled up my water bag and had a wash which was very acceptable and had a few Horlicks tablets from my escape kit. I walked. Walked all night and at dawn I found another wood and subsequently spent the day there having a sleep and working out what I was going to do next. I was fortunate in having the new flying boots that had been issued which were detachable leggings on a shoe which was much easier to walk with than the old flying boot. So, I removed all badges of rank and brevet and set off again. I think I covered about 20K that day. Not a long way but I wasn’t hurrying. Trying to keep out of everyone’s way. Even, even though it was night there was, there was still a few people around and the villages which I tried to walk around but sometimes it was much easier to walk through them. The next day I spent hiding up and set off again at nightfall and passed through a village. And a mile past the village a truck came along and passed me and stopped. And he came back and said, obviously he was going to give me a ride. Asked what I was doing there. Anyway, I tried to make out that I was, I was a French worker but he could speak far better French than I could. At that stage I was feeling well down on very little to eat and water bag was empty so I wasn’t too unhappy to be taken into custody. I had three or four bits of chocolate over from the, that I hadn’t eaten and in the truck was his, another man and his little daughter. So I gave this kid a couple of bits of, pieces of chocolate and he was most impressed. When we came through the village he stopped, went to the local pub and bought us all a bottle of beer. So, it was a very good investment with two or three blocks of chocolate. Subsequently I was handed over to the local police and they called in the army and I was officially a POW.
AP: Alright. That’s, we got up to that stage. Can we maybe backtrack a little bit? You were talking about an escape kit. You were talking about an escape kit that you had.
KC: Yes.
AP: Obviously when you found yourself ejected from the aeroplane it was with you. Whereabouts did you actually have it?
KC: Oh you just carried it in your battle dress pocket.
AP: Oh ok. So, it was only a little thing.
KC: Little.
AP: Yeah.
KC: Well, a box about five by seven inches and about an inch deep and, which fitted inside your battle dress.
AP: And what sort of things were in it?
KC: Horlicks tablets [pause] very basic food stuffs. Some chocolate, not to enjoy but to [laughs] to survive on. And [pause] I’ve forgotten now. It’s so long ago.
AP: Maps and things like that as well.
KC: Oh, maps and a compass.
AP: Yeah. Did you have one of those special compasses that were hidden in a button or hidden somewhere or — ?
KC: Had a button compass.
AP: Yeah.
KC: I also had a little hand compass which I always carried.
AP: Very cool. You were saying as well you, about fifteen minutes before the target you’d go down into where the bombsight was and set it up.
KC: Set it up.
AP: And all that sort of thing. What did you do for the rest of the flight?
KC: I worked the H2S machine.
AP: Where was that physically?
KC: That was next to the navigator.
AP: Ah.
KC: And as I had not a lot to do it was a lot more practical that I did the H2S and he did the navigation. Getting all the fixes. It worked out very well.
AP: What did you, what did you think? Can you remember much about the H2S and what it looked like? And —
KC: All the H2S was, it was a machine, a dial about eight or nine inches diameter and it gave a profile of what was underneath. It had a long range and a short range and once you learned how to read it, it was a very desirable navigation tool. Especially on coastal areas, of course. It had a very sharp delineation between the sea and the land. Flying over land such as southern Germany it could pick up any lakes. It also picked up cities and towns as a darker green on the lighter green of the screen. Once you learned how to interpret it, it was a very useful tool.
AP: You also mentioned a couple, or there was at least three times there you mentioned being attacked by fighters. What does a corkscrew feel like for a bomb aimer?
KC: A corkscrew, in a four engine bomber you’re thinking of a Spitfire. It just goes high, right or left as the case might be, nose straight down, and round and round and pull out and go the other way and hope you’ve lost him. And if you haven’t lost him keep on doing it.
AP: Keep doing it [laughs] It would be quite, quite strenuous for the pilot I imagine.
KC: Oh, it was. The [pause] where they was over the target area if you, if you saw the fighter and went into a corkscrew he’d go and find someone who hadn’t, or hopefully hadn’t seen him.
AP: They were looking for, for easier prey. How did you cope with the stress of flying on operations? What did you do to relax?
KC: It was stressful. I think I coped very well.
AP: What sort of things did you do to, to handle that, or to deal with the pressure? If anything.
KC: Went to the local. And the local dances. The theatre. The pictures. And any entertainment that was on at the squadron when we weren’t flying.
AP: Alright. You’ve mentioned pubs and the local a few times. What, for Leconfield let’s just say, or any other pub that you can remember what did the pub look like and what was in there? What sort of things went on?
KC: Well, the nearest town was Beverley which was a market town and it was quite a big town. We got to know a few of the locals and we used to go to the, the Beverley Arms. Found ourselves a corner and some compatible people. Had a few drinks. Sang a few squadron songs and enjoyed ourselves. At that stage most of us had bikes so it was quite an adventure getting from the local back to the squadron. Fortunately, we made it.
AP: Very good.
KC: A few spills here and there.
AP: Very nice. Were there any superstitions or hoodoos amongst your crew or amongst your squadron that you knew about?
KC: We had a thing about our little, one of us had a little fluffy rabbit. About six or eight inches high and every operation we took the rabbit. And every operation we marked it on the, on the rabbit. And our ambition was to cover the rabbit. We didn’t, [pause] Stuttgart was our thirty third operation so we were looking forward to finishing but unfortunately, we didn’t.
AP: What, how many operations did you need to do for a tour at that period?
KC: Well normally it was thirty.
AP: Yeah.
KC: But with the French targets being shorter and supposedly easier they increased it to up to forty. The first two or three French targets were quite easy. But as soon as the Luftwaffe found out what we were doing they moved their fighter squadrons in.
AP: They did. Yes. I think at one point I think a French target counted as one third of a trip.
KC: Initially it did.
AP: Yeah.
KC: But subsequently they scrubbed it .
AP: There was a 467 Squadron man who said you can’t go for one third of a burton. That’s the way he put it. What sort of things happened in the, in the mess at the airfield?
KC: We were fed. And again had a few drinks and played cards or sat around and talked and had a sing song. There was no shortage of suitable songs [pause] I’m just wondering where Fiona was.
AP: Behind you.
KC: Oh, she’s there is she.
AP: She’s been there for about forty minutes, I think. She’s crept in nice and quietly. Alright. Can we, can we talk a bit about your prisoner of war experience? What — where were you taken after you were, were captured?
KC: Well from the army camp where we were assembled with about another ten people from a Lancaster crew, or two Lancasters that had been shot down in the area and there were about ten survivors. And we were taken from there to Stuttgart and subsequently to be taken to the interrogation centre at Frankfurt. We got to Stuttgart under heavy army guard and put on the platform waiting for a train. It was about midnight and the RAF came over again in force. Sirens went and people started running for shelters, saw us there and [laughs] we were, we were not popular. But the German army protected us, fortunately, and we were taken down to the cells until the train came which was Stuttgart to Frankfurt where the interrogation centre was at Oberursel. Spent the first three or four days there in solitary and then was taken to an interrogation room where the German officer started off with cigarettes and, ‘How are you?’ And all the welcoming. ‘Welcome to the Third Reich,’ He could speak perfect English. He’d apparently spent four or five years in the early thirties in England. And he said, ‘What’s your name?’ So, I gave it to him. ‘Your rank?’ So I gave it to him. ‘Your number?’ I gave it to him. ‘What aircraft were you flying?’ ‘You know I can’t answer that.’ Five or six more questions and he said, ‘Well I know you’re going to say no but we know it anyway.’ So he pressed the button and a girl came in. He spoke some German to her. She came back with a file. A file on 466 Squadron. And he told us the CO’s name, the flight commander’s name, most of the other people. The group captain. What the, how the aircraft, or how many aircraft there were. The fact that we’d transferred from Wellington’s to Halifaxes in 1943. And he knew the name of the barmaid at the local pub. There was nothing I could tell him. So, he gave me permission to have a shave and a shower which was very acceptable. Then back to solitary again and after that three or four days there were enough POWs to make a contingent to go to a POW camp which we subsequently caught a train and three or four, about three days later we arrived at a place called Bankau which was near Breslau in Poland. A very uncomfortable train trip but we finally made it. We were taken in to the camp and searched, interrogated again and duly given our quarters. All the people in the camp welcomed us, wanting us, wanting to know the latest situation on, on the second front. And being new people gave us a welcome dinner. The camp at that stage was very very basic. It was just huts on a dirt floor and bunks. There was a new camp being built just next door and we were looking forward to moving into that which we did after about four or five weeks. They finished the, enough of the camp to move us in which was a very pleasant change and there were rooms rather than huts. A big, big, a big area converted into about eight rooms with a toilet block at the end which was a much more pleasant life than going on, getting in the huts which were very crowded. The Red Cross there were marvellous to us. Before we left the interrogation centre, they fitted us out with warm clothing, boots and any other supplies that we needed. At the camp we were getting, at that stage we were getting a Red Cross parcel every fortnight which was the difference between existing and surviving. The Red Cross did a fantastic job in Germany for the POW’s. And [pause] and when were we there? That was about the end of August, I think. September. October. We used to fill in our time there with games which the Red Cross supplied. And they supplied us with a good library. And we walked around the compound for our exercise. We had to discuss trying to escape but at that stage of the war we were advised not to because they thought it would be over by Christmas. How wrong they were. In due course there was a Russian advance to the westward and the Germans wanted to keep us so we were told we were going to move camp and in January ’45 we were turfed out of our comfortable quarters into the coldest winter that, in Germany for about forty years. Four or five feet of snow on the ground. Cold. About five or six hundred people heading eastwards. We were supposedly to be marching but it soon very, very soon developed into a straggle. Everyone had found they were carrying far too much kit so the non-essentials were abandoned and whatever you could carry was what you had. We marched all day and stopped for a cup of lukewarm soup about mid-day and came to a suitable village at night and found a farm and were billeted in the farm buildings and hopefully had something to eat, which was problematical. We did have a Red Cross parcel each before we started which we tried to ration. We didn’t know how long we’d be marching so we tried to keep as much as possible of that intact. That went on for about two or three weeks. Marching by day and hopefully finding a barn or somewhere covered at night. Fortunately, on most occasions we slept in the farmers barn and threw out his livestock. Food was a very basic problem then and with, with the German army rations and what we had from the Red Cross parcels we managed to survive. And after how long? Three weeks? We were told we were going to be put on a train to our next destination. We were put on a train, about sixty five people to a four wheel cattle truck and there was room to stand up. You had to take it in turns to lie down. We spent three days in that. It was not a happy trip. After about a day we decided we would have been far better, far happier, marching. We eventually arrived at a place called Luckenwalde, about fifty miles south of Berlin and were taken to some barracks there which had originally been barracks for the German army in the Franco-Prussian war. They were in a very decrepit condition. It was a very large camp. All, a lot of POWs had been transferred there and many other, other nationalities. Thousands of Russian prisoners. And conditions were very basic. We used to sit there with nothing, nothing to do. Watched the Americans come over Berlin in the daytime and at night Mosquitoes came over Berlin at night. Subsequently the Russian army overran the camp and we were under the control of the Russians. Initially they were very good. The army people. A couple of thousand Russian prisoners were given a rifle, they said, ‘Come with us which they did. They were very keen to get their own back on the Germans for the appalling treatment that the Russians had had. We stayed in the camp there and the Russian army moved on and the administration took over. And it was a very different story. We were under Russian control and we were so close to the American lines and couldn’t do anything about it. Subsequently an American war correspondent and about six trucks came along and, to take the American survivors out but they wouldn’t, a few got away but the Russians wouldn’t let us go. But the, we were told that if we could possibly get out the trucks would be at a certain position until about 4 o’clock that afternoon. Another four or five of us managed to escape from the Russians, literally, through a hole in the wire and we found our way to the American trucks where two or three trucks had already filled. And at about 4 o’clock in the afternoon they said, ‘Well we can’t wait any further,’ and off we went. And after about an hour or so crossing an emergency bridge over the Elbe to the American army camp which was the front lines. They gave us accommodation and apologised profusely because the ice cream machine hadn’t caught up. From there we made our way to [pause] well the Americans gave us any kit we needed and fed us well and we went to an aerodrome where we were subsequently flown back to England.
AP: And that was the end of it.
KC: So, taken back to Brighton. Re-kitted. Met all our, well a lot of the people that we’d known before but also had been in Germany and given a leave pass for two weeks, a year’s pay, said, ‘Come back when you’re ready.’ So, I was a survivor fortunately. I subsequently found out years later that what had happened was another aircraft, also from our squadron had collided with us and it must have been a collision in our tail because the, our rear gunner, mid-upper gunner and the engineer were never found. The front of the aircraft, the bodies were found. And all the other aircraft were lost. So that was it. And I endured a mid-air collision and I happened to be the lucky one.
AP: How did you find readjusting to civilian life after going through all of that?
KC: Oh, coming back to Australia we were, came through The Heads which was a magnificent sight. Taken off the ship, put on a bus, taken to Bradfield Park. Not interrogated but put on record again and given a leave pass and, ‘Come back in two weeks.’ No ticker tape parade. No marching through, through George Street. Back home and out which suited us fine. It was quite a readjustment getting back to civilian life after the discipline of service life but I went back to my old job and started off life again.
AP: My final question for you. What is Bomber Command’s legacy and how do you want to see it remembered?
KC: Seventy one years later. Well sixty eight years later in Canberra it was decided to build a Bomber Command Memorial which was subsequently unveiled. I think in 2007 or eight, something like that. And it was the first Bomber Command Memorial, as far as we know, that was ever made. And it still stands in the sculpture garden of the Australian War Memorial. We were going to have our ceremony there tomorrow but unfortunately due to the inclement weather we have to have our ceremony inside. But subsequent to that, in England there was a movement to have a Bomber Command Memorial constructed and it was taken up officially and very enthusiastically supported and in 2009 I was one of the fortunate official members of the Air Force, RAAF delegation that went to the opening of the Air Force Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park in London. That is a magnificent Memorial. It took seventy one years but it was worth it. We were one of the fortunate thirty people in the official delegation that were at the dedication.
AP: Any final words? Any last thoughts for the, for the tape?
KC: Well here we are today on what was the 4th of July.
AP: 4th of June. 4th of June.
KC: June rather.
AP: Yeah.
KC: For our annual Bomber Command Commemoration Day Foundation. Remembrance of Bomber Command. It’s a very major event.
AP: It certainly is.
KC: The War Memorial have done a lot of the organisation for us. Made the, made the ANZAC Hall available and the Hall of Remembrance for our ceremony tomorrow and we’re quite looking forward to that.
AP: Here’s to that. Well, thank you very much Keith. It’s been an absolute pleasure hearing your story properly for the first time.
KC: Sorry I was so —
AP: I very much enjoyed it.
KC: The coughing
AP: No. That’s gone, that’s gone really well I think. It’s good.
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ACampbellKW160604
PCampbellKW1601
Title
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Interview with Keith Campbell. Two
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Sound
Language
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eng
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01:11:55 audio recording
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Pending review
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Adam Purcell
Date
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2016-06-04
Description
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Keith Campbell grew up in New South Wales and joined the Royal Australian Air Force when he was old enough. He flew 35 operations as a bomb aimer with 466 Squadron from RAF Leconfield and RAF Driffield when, on their thirty first operation another aircraft from their squadron collided with them. All other crew were killed but Keith was thrown from the aircraft and parachuted in to a wheat field. He began to walk towards the Swiss border but was caught and became a poisoner of war.He was first sent to Stalag Luft 7 at Bankau but then was ordered on to the Long March and ended up at Stalag 3A at Luckenwalde from where he escaped the Russians and joined up with the Americans who sent him home.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Australia
Germany
Great Britain
Poland
England--Yorkshire
Poland--Opole (Voivodeship)
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1942-05
1943
1944-01
Contributor
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Julie Williams
466 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
coping mechanism
crewing up
Gee
H2S
Halifax
memorial
mid-air collision
military living conditions
military service conditions
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Church Broughton
RAF Driffield
RAF Leconfield
Red Cross
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
superstition
the long march
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/327/3486/AShuttleworthHJ151021.1.mp3
1e229b0a918cfe3b6d74219097f584c4
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/327/3486/PShuttleworthJ1501.1.jpg
59a7d9a38c1dae94a5276abcaff86f0f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Shuttleworth, Joe
Hugh Joseph Shuttleworth
Hugh J Shuttleworth
Hugh Shuttleworth
H J Shuttleworth
H Shuttleworth
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Hugh Joseph "Joe" Shuttleworth.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-10-21
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Shuttleworth, J
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive is with Joe Shuttleworth. A 50 Squadron rear gunner. The interview is taking place in Surrey Hills which is a suburb of Melbourne. It is the 21st of October 2015. My name’s Adam Purcell. So, I think we’ll start, if you don’t mind Joe with can you tell me something of your early life, growing up? What you did before the war.
JS: Well I grew up and born in Brisbane and had a pretty charmed life. Went to a state school. Wasn’t much but was good at ball games and I enjoyed life with my mother and father. Father had a job whereas, you know in the Depression years in the 1930s times were pretty rough really. I remember kids taking food out of rubbish bins at school. That didn’t ever happen to me. My mother and father came from Victoria and they moved up to Queensland at some point about 1920/21. And they came. Big families. And I had the opportunity of being sent down to, to Melbourne when I was ten and again when I was fourteen and caught up with my, my relatives on both my mother’s side and father’s side. And after a long time my mother and father agreed to, that I join the air force. So I went to the air force place and I was accepted to air crew. And that was February 1941. That was before the Japanese war but I wasn’t called in for a uniform until May of 1942. By that time the Japanese were well advanced in the, in Northern Australia. I was at 3 ITS. The Initial Training School that was based at Sandgate and the waterfront was just outside, you know. Do you know? You know Brisbane I suppose?
AP: I don’t. I don’t know it very well but —
JS: Do you know Sandgate then?
AP: No. I don’t actually.
JS: The water was just outside the area there. There I was told I wasn’t accepted to go in aircrew because I had an eye deficiency. I wasn’t smart enough to be accepted as a navigator. They were the boys with all the brains. So I enlisted as a wireless operator/ gunner and went to Maryborough where I was there for about seven months. Whilst there I got the mumps and I was in the, in the hospital at the camp for a few days and then I went down to a convalescent place nearby. Spent a couple of very enjoyable weeks there. Life in Maryborough was, was pretty good and we stayed in huts of about forty blokes in there. Food was pretty good. I palled up with a particular bloke who came from Bundaberg. He had a brother that was killed in the early stages of the war. And we saw a bit of Bundaberg, went down to the various beaches on the back of his motorbike. Then after Maryborough went down to Evans Head to a, to a gunnery school and did a bit of flying there. We had Fairey Battles aircraft pulling a drogue and we’d have a pretty, what do they call it, a go gun to shoot at the drogue. About 5 o’clock everybody was saying to me go down to the, to the beach. Occasionally I went to Lismore for the weekend and I stayed at a hotel there. Was presented with the, with the wings and went back to, to Brisbane. Stayed around on, on leave there for a few weeks. The air force then sent us down to Melbourne. We, I was able to get caught up, caught up with my relatives. Uncles and aunts on both side. Saw my grandmother who died when I was overseas. And then, surprisingly the air force decided to send us back to Brisbane. We sailed from Brisbane in about May of ’42. Went down to the wharf and got on to a ship. A Dutch ship. The [pause] What was its name? Anyways, under, under American command. We had bunks down in the holds of the ship. It was, the air was pretty putrid there. I elected to sleep out most nights on the, on the deck. Sometimes I got a bit wet but just a light shower. Life was pretty good. There was lots of good reading material there. Particularly a publication, a Saturday Morning Post, err Saturday Evening Post. But it ceased publication but I read a lot about American life. We had nineteen days on the, on the Pacific. Didn’t see another ship. Didn’t see any land at all. But it was a very enjoyable nineteen days. The weather was pretty good the last couple of days going into San Francisco. In San Francisco it got a bit rough but not too bad. Went in under the Golden Gate Bridge and the ship docked just in the bayside outside Alcatraz at the, the big prison there. After about a day and a half we went across to, to Oakland. Got on a, sent on a train and we went on the train — spent about four and a half days on the train going across America. Went up through Sacramento and that’s where I saw my first snow. I hadn’t seen snow in my life because my previous trips to Melbourne were in the summertime. It was. There was no, no snow up there [unclear]. And we went to, we sat up during the daylight hours and there’d be an American negro putting down the beds that we could sleep on at night. But it was very interesting going across America, seeing. I recall going across on the boat — we didn’t have any ice cream and I think I had the best ice cream in my life at Salt Lake City early one morning. Bought a, bought a packet. It was great. We continued on the train across the, across the Mississippi which the negro, the negro fellow pointed out to us and went outside to a place called Taunton which was outside Boston and there we had some leave. Got down to New York. Saw The Rockets. They were a dancing team. Also, the Rockefeller Centre which is an ice rink there. Lots of American people skating around on, on ice. Went down to Philadelphia to see a, the father, I previously worked in Brisbane at the SKF Bearing Company and an American GI, I believe went in there to enjoy himself about his father being employed at the SKF Bearing Company in Philadelphia. So, I went down there, introduced myself and they looked after me very well. Went back to Boston. We used to get leave in the, during the day. Went down to, to Rhode Island. And life was, was pretty good really. Then we went down to New York. Got aboard the, the Queen Elizabeth and at that time in the next berth was the Queen Mary and alongside again on an adjoining wharf was the Normandie, the French ship which was sunk there — caught fire and they pumped so much water I think it was always suspected it was a, as a ploy really because the Normandie would have been a great asset to the allies ferrying troops to and from Europe. There was only about two hundred Australians there. We were selected to do anti-craft, anti-aircraft watch on the, on the ship. And that was a bit, a bit of a thrill for a twenty year lad on the QE. Was it just the Queen Elizabeth? The QE1 it was subsequently called. Spent about four and a half days getting across the Atlantic. Went in to Scotland to, to Greenock. Stayed there on the ship for about a day and a half and then got on a train and sent down to Brighton. And one, one evening I was out on the, doing the anti-aircraft watch and a Sunderland circled around and it was pretty atrocious weather and I thought not Coastal Command. It’s not for me. I’ll take my risk on Bomber Command. So, after a few weeks in, in Brighton I was sent to 29 OTU at Bruntingthorpe which is now still an operating airfield. The equivalent of something like Moorabbin. It’s not, not an RAF station. But Bruntingthorpe initially was pretty much lectures and the operation of turrets and I did reasonably well on that. I was selected by a flight lieutenant, a Scotsman from Dunoon in Scotland and he, he thought I had potential evidently. There was another chap, Bill Bottrell. He was an Irishman and he had an Irish wireless operator and they were very keen for me to join their crew but I didn’t do so. But fortunately, or unfortunately they were all subsequently killed. At the OTU we lost two aircraft. One disappeared off the Wales Coast and another coming back from dropping pamphlets over France crashed. There was an Australian air gunner, rear gunner, he died. And the only person who got out of it, a chap named Terry Wilder who I subsequently met and I’ll refer to him later. The flying was at an subsidiary airfield Cresswell. And on OT, on Wellingtons, which were pretty well clapped out, one night we were doing circuits and bumps as I used to call them. Just circling around. Mainly to get the pilot practising in flying the Wellington. Circuits and landings and take offs. But one night when we were just about on air speed of about a hundred, a hundred kilometers an hour got a tyre burst and the aircraft crashed and slewed around. We all walked out of it unscathed but the risk was that sometimes in those circumstances if it caught fire because the Wellington was only fabric covered. Then whilst at Bruntingthorpe the adjoining village was at Lutterworth and there was a bit of a fair there one night and I was walking around and girls, two girls came up and one girl, Joyce Barry asked me did I have any change which I was able to oblige but I palled up with the other girl Freda who I subsequently married. We, we spent a lot of, a bit of time together. I was, after leaving Bruntingthorpe, I went up to Bitteswell and converted there to four-engined aircraft. Particularly the Lancaster. What’s so interesting in my father’s era pretty well they were all smokers but in our crew, there was only two smokers — the wireless operator and the top gunner. And that was pretty representative of the situation, I think, everywhere really. So, it’s the attitude to smoking has changed so much over the years. At, at Bitteswell we could, I was sent up to Skellingthorpe to do fighter affiliation work. We had Australians flying Tomahawks and, you know they were just making a simulated attacks on the aircraft and there would be a camera so that it would record what you did and the circumstances. We also changed the wireless operators at Bitteswell but I was up at Skellingthorpe so I don’t know really what happened. I wasn’t there to. Then we went to Morton Hall. To a commando school really. Jumping over fences and getting through wires etcetera. Unfortunately, I sprained my ankle on the second day so I was, did very little. I often thought subsequently that Morton Hall could have been the Command Centre for 5 Group but I, I don’t know whether that was right or not. Also, when we were at Bruntingthorpe we could hear engines running and just talked about, you know a place down the road running engines. We subsequently found that it was Frank Whittle, subsequently Sir Frank Whittle developing the jet engine. What happened then? I think we went to, posted to Skellingthorpe. Now, one thing about Bitteswell, that was a permanent RAF station and the accommodation was in brick buildings whereas at Skellingthorpe it was a wartime aerodrome. Lived in what we called Nissen huts — accommodation for about ten crew. And there would be a stove in the centre of the hut where we burned coke to keep us warm in the, in the cooler times. Also, before we went to Skellingthorpe went to Syerston. That was another permanent RAF station where the accommodation was in brick buildings. Actually, I saw my first snow drop at Syerston. That was the first I’d seen in England. Life on the, on the squadron, 50 Squadron and the flight insignia on the aircraft was VN and I’ve got a plate inside where that, the N is showing. We tended to go up to the flight office about 9 o’clock in the morning to see whether there was a war on. If there wasn’t we’d go out to the aircraft and have a mess around. Have practice of getting out of an aircraft into a dinghy. The food was pretty, pretty reasonable. It was certainly the best available in England. Sausages were mainly a lot of bread. I often thought I wouldn’t eat baked beans again but I quite like them now and again. But certainly, food at the squadron was the best available in England on the operations. If the war was on we were given an evening meal and briefed as to where the aircraft, where the target would be. The wing commander would say where, where the target was that night. We’d see the target. The flights into Europe, we did a lot of trips to Berlin and they were generally about ten hours. Sometimes you went in, flew over France. Other times it would be over north, over Denmark and into Berlin that way.
Other: Do you want a drink of water, dad?
JS: Pardon?
Other: Would you like a drink of water?
JS: No thanks. No. Yeah, perhaps so.
[pause]
JS: The great losses of aircraft at that time — we would be sending out about seven hundred and fifty aircraft and we’d generally lose about fifty. So, on a tour of thirty, statistically it’s impossible to get through a tour but some, some did.
AP: What time was this?
JS: Pardon?
AP: What time was it? What? Or when was it?
JS: We tended to, to go off just before dark. About an hour, this is English time. I suppose it would be about 8 o’clock really because there was double daylight saving over there then. So it was, you know normally light till about ten and we’d probably take off about eight and get back about ten, ten hours later. That was coming back after a flight. The, all the, the squadron leader and the wing commander and sometimes the air commodore would be there to greet you. Hot, hot chocolate drink to drink. It was a bit hard at times, you know. It would come back to you, you had to go to bed but sometimes representatives of other crews didn’t survive. On one occasion we did three, three flights in and, then in four days we did two daylights. Take off at daylight. Another one we turned, turned up about midnight. Came back in the light and flew over England. And I recall one particular occasion coming back over the south coast of England, seeing the white cliffs of Dover and up through England. I often thought that, you know life was pretty great really. What else? When I was at Skellingthorpe I used to go down and see Freda, my wife and often hitch-hiked back and often stood outside the Trent Bridge Cricket Ground waiting for a lift back to Skellingthorpe which is just outside Lincoln. Eventually, one night coming back there was a flash about 11 o’clock high and I felt immediate pain in this eye. I think one of the crew dragged me out of the turret. We got back to, to England and went to, to hospital at Rauceby which was outside Grantham. And there they gave me the decision that they couldn’t do anything about the eye. It would have to come out because the piece of metal there was, was too big. And then after about, oh about a month in hospital there I went up to Hoylake which is outside Liverpool. The RAF had taken it over as a convalescent. It was a public school and they’d taken it over as a reception recuperation place for aircrew personnel and I had a few months there. Quite, you know, life was good. Used to have various exercises to keep us, keep us young and fit. One particular bloke that I met at Rauceby, an RAAF bloke, an RAAF bloke he came from Barcaldine in Queensland. He’d married one of the, the nurses at the hospital. A bloke named Templeton. I guess he came, eventually came back to Australia. The, after Hoylake I went back to, to Brighton and they asked me did I, they told me I was declared unfit for further flying. They asked me did I want to go up to Kodak House and stay in a clerical position or come back to Australia. And I said, ‘No. I’m going back to Australia,’ but I went up to Kodak House and did clerical duties there for a couple of months. That was, that was alright. Eventually they sent, took me back to Brighton and I waited then a decision on, on going home to Australia. Whilst in London I had the husband of a cousin of mine on my mother’s side who had been in the Royal Navy since about fourteen or fifteen years of age. He was a lieutenant there and I saw quite a bit of Keith. Also, Australia House they had a Boomerang Club where they used to serve luncheons there. It was all done in a voluntary capacity. A lot of Australians would go there and meet fellows that we’d met at various times at our training. Eventually the word came. Get on a train. Went back to Greenock. Back on the Queen Elizabeth. Back to New York. By that time there were very few Australians there. Only, only about a hundred of us and there was no, a few Americans going back after being injured in various parts of the UK. Well, whilst at Hoylake we went down to the luncheon. The BBC news came on and announced D-day. That was a great thrill. It was eventually on. My brother in law, Fred is my sister’s husband, he was in the, in the army and you know he got out at Dunkirk. Went around to North Africa. Involved in the, in to Sicily and in to Italy. Back to England and then went into Europe about two, about two days after D-day. So, they certainly had a tough, tough life. One of the things at the RAF stations we used to have sheets on our beds. That’s something that we didn’t ever have in Australia but we had lovely blankets and the idea was to hang onto your Australian blankets because they were real wool and warm whereas the English blankets tended to be a bit feltish. At [pause] New York we, we had constant leave. Went down to one of the United Services Club and they invited me to go down and meet a couple of girls there, you know. Palled up with one girl. Went out with her and she took me home to a place on Great Neck and introduced me to her sister and her father who was involved in the forestry business and, yes they looked after me very well. Took me to a nightclub. Café society. And I got a signature of Joe, Joe Lewis — the American world champion boxer. Had quite a number of other signatures in that, in that RAAF diary but it’s disappeared like a lot of other things. Back on the train to San Francisco. This time we went on a more southerly route in those rather poorer areas of America. Whereas the country up north around Denver, you know was lovely and prosperous but the southern parts looked, looked pretty tough. Went to a staging camp, Petersburg. Was there for about a fortnight. American people often took us for drives around the country. Eventually we went on to a ship, the Monterey. One of the American liners. Went to, sailed it across. The ship was full of Americans going out to the Pacific war, warfare. Sailed into Finschhafen, saw my first American Duck in the water there. Spent a couple of days there. Then went up to Hollandia, changed ship there on the Swansea and that came down to Oro Bay and Milne Bay and back to Brisbane. That’s about it.
AP: That was pretty well your story. Well, we may as well go, have a look at some of the things in a bit more detail if you don’t mind.
JS: Yeah.
AP: I love it. I ask one question and thirty minutes later we, we’re just about finished. We’re not really. Where were you when you heard that war was declared? And how old were you and what did you think at the time?
JS: I was [pause] When the Japanese invaded or are you talking —
AP: Well, right back at the beginning. 1939.
JS: Oh yes. Yes. I remember. I was working then at the SKF Bearing Company in Brisbane and a couple of months after the war started it was obvious we wouldn’t be able to get ball bearings and roller bearings from Europe where most of it was coming from. Not a lot from Sweden. So, the boss said to me, ‘Well Joe. Sorry.’ But I was a stock clerk there and quite an interesting job. Enjoyed it. So, I was able to get a job at a warehouse in Brisbane — Hoffman’s and Company who sold supplies to, to the small shops in those days. Of course, there was small shops over the Brisbane area and over the Queensland area. And I was there until I was, went into the air force then in, in May of ’42. One thing too that I may, should have mentioned. At Sandgate we were, just before lunch, there was an American Airacobra who flew around the station. But he got too low. Dipped his wing in the water and crashed. And in those days I was pretty, pretty fit so I and a few others swam out but he was dead unfortunately. Whilst I didn’t see it that same afternoon another one crashed out, out into the sea.
AP: You were on the Reserve. The Air Force Reserve for a fair time, I think. You said it was.
JS: Yeah.
AP: It was almost a year.
JS: From February. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. What, did the air force give you anything to do in that time?
JS: Yes.
AP: Or did you just carry on?
JS: We attended educational classes in airmanship and particularly Morse code which I never really ever mastered well. Formed quite a few friendships of fellows there. In Brisbane a number of fellows who, who went to, to England there was a very high casualty list amongst them. Fellows that I went to school with, who knew in various parts, you know, didn’t come back. But I, when I was discharged at the [pause] just after the world war, the Japanese capitulated, I joined Veterans Affairs and worked at Veterans Affairs for a couple off months off forty years. First in their administrative offices in Brisbane. In Perry House. I was there for a few years. Then I went out to the Greenslopes Hospital. Was there until 1959 when they, for the last six months I went to Kenmore which was a TB sanitorium out [pause] out Lone Pine way. Out that direction. And then in 1960 I applied for positions. The blokes ahead of me weren’t going to move from Brisbane. My father had died. My mother was living with us and we were in a, built a home in Corinda in Brisbane and we’d only two bedrooms. My mother was in the lounge and she had relatives in Melbourne of course so I applied for a job in Melbourne. Eventually went to, to Heidelberg and I was there most of the time in Heidelberg. My last job there was director of administration which was an exceedingly interesting job. You know, in charge of the domestic services, food services, ordinary stores and administrative people. And I had a lot of liaising with the, the medical people and specialist departments like occupational therapy, physiotherapy. Yeah.
AP: So that’s the repatriation hospital at Heidelberg.
JS: Heidelberg. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Ok.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Just for context because this is going to the UK.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Why did you pick the air force?
JS: I had a fear of fighting in the trenches of France.
AP: Did you have any —
JS: And I was always interested. We lived in, in Sherwood in Corinda and it wasn’t so many miles across to the Archerfield Aerodrome. And I often used to cycle out or being taken out by somebody to see visiting aircraft. Had a few joy flights out that way. My father, airlines had prospered, it meant that caught an aircraft, a Stinson to Townsville and then changed aircraft. He was going to Cairns and he got into a Dragon Rapide. Only a little two-engined aircraft. And going out the weather closed in. They landed on the beach. Stayed there for a couple of hours. The pilot said, ‘We’ve got to get out the tide’s coming in too quickly.’ So, they went on to Cairns. Now, fancy that happening that way.
AP: Now [laughs] yeah. It’s a bit different. I was going to ask you something about that. Alright. The first time you went in an aeroplane. Apart from those joy flights. When you were in the air force tell me about your first flight if you can remember it.
JS: At Maryborough. That was my first flight.
AP: What, what did you think of it?
JS: They were pretty basic aircraft but they were pretty good in those days.
AP: That was a Battle?
JS: They had wireless sets and you’d practice your Morse code and verbal communication. Yeah.
AP: Very good. You’ve told me how you got to the UK. That’s very good. When, what [pause] that was the first time you went overseas?
JS: Pardon?
AP: That was the first time you went overseas?
JS: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. What did you think of wartime England? First. First thoughts on arrival.
JS: Oh, lovely country. Lots of beautiful girls. Lots of warm beer. It was pretty hard to get cold beer in those days. The countryside was absolutely beautiful.
AP: Alright. That leads on to the next question, I guess. The beer question. What did you do to relax when you weren’t on duty?
JS: Where?
AP: What did you do to relax when you were not on duty?
JS: Where?
AP: Ah, well anywhere. On the squadron. On OTU. That sort of thing. When you were on leave. Or not even on leave.
JS: Very often I was going to and from Lutterworth to see my wife.
AP: And you actually got married in England.
JS: Yes.
AP: Yeah. That’s —
JS: Got married on the 30th of December 1943.
AP: Tell me about a wartime wedding.
JS: It was at Bardon Hill just outside Coalville. We toasted with a bottle of Australian wine. How it happened to be there I’m not quite sure but it was there. I realised, you know, that people in England had it pretty tough in comparison to, to life in the Australian household. You know they didn’t have a bathroom. They’d have a tub which, which you’d have a wash in that. Whereas of course in Australia, you know I grew up in a house, a timber house on stilts. Had a copper down, down under the house where you washed your clothes. But if you wanted a hot bath you had to bucket water up in to the bathroom. I remember a chip heater being installed to heat the water in the bath. That was a great advantage. Subsequently of course before the war it was put in an electrical system [pause] And domestic appliances. In those days there was no dishwashers, vacuum cleaners or anything like that. Cleaning the floors was done by a broom or down with a cloth. Hand and knees. I remember my mother, you know washing the floor and polishing the floor which was in those days was linoleum. Whereas these days we’ve got all these modern cons and every, and of course, you know people get fairly gigantic loans to get into houses but you know they, they want and expect everything at the same time. All of those modern cons. Two cars in the family which is pretty well a necessity these days.
AP: Different, different times I think, Joe. Different times.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Alright. We might, might talk a bit about, well ok the aircraft. The Lancaster. What did you think the first time you saw a Lancaster?
JS: Yeah. Well it was, was built to carry bombs. Pretty light construction really. I saw the one earlier this year. Went up to the War Memorial in Canberra. And whilst we, we thought it was huge back in 1943 you know, they’re pretty tiny now. And one of the, one of the things that the RAF didn’t miss on. You know, you often thought that the aircraft would be attacking you in to the, in to the turret but what was happening would be German aircraft perhaps a thousand feet down below you and what they didn’t know — the Germans had a gun pointing up like that and of course the aircraft was sending out a certain amount of exhaust fumes so we were sitting ducks to the German fighter pilots. And the RAF didn’t ever wake up to the fact that this was what was happening.
AP: Did, did the crews themselves have some sort of an idea of that? Or —
JS: No.
AP: There was just no, no one had, they just disappeared.
JS: It didn’t seem to get through to anybody.
AP: No one worked it out. What’s a turret look like when you’re in it? You’re sitting in your turret. What’s in front of you? What’s beside you?
JS: There was, in a Wellington it was two guns — 303s. And in the Lancasters four. Four guns. The ammunition. Every, about every tenth shell would be a tracer so that you could see it in the sky. I didn’t ever fire a gun at a fighter pilot. A fighter. I didn’t see one. And of course, our gunnery was 303s whereas the English, the German fighter pilots certainly .5 or 20mm.
AP: Yeah. There was a bit of an unfair fight, I think.
JS: Yes. Yeah. The, the Halifax, I didn’t ever have a flight on it. I was very impressed with the turret in the Halifax. A Boulton Paul whereas it was a Fraser Nash in the Lancaster. And I’ve been told that they were easier to get out of if there was an emergency.
AP: I’ve heard of that sort of thing. That kind of declares my next question null and void. But I suppose you did fighter affiliation. What’s, what’s the drill when you, if you were to spot a night fighter somewhere —
JS: Yes.
AP: What happens next? What’s the drill?
JS: You’d do a corkscrew. Down. Down to port or to starboard. So, go down and up, down and up again to get out. That was a case of being attacked from the rear by an aircraft. Now that didn’t ever happen to me and I don’t think it happened to too many.
AP: What was a corkscrew like in a turret?
JS: It was up and down, you know. That wasn’t, that wasn’t too bad you know. In the turret of course, we had heated, heated suits on. One night coming back across Denmark mine petered out and I had a fairly cold trip back. But I survived alright [laughs] the temperature outside me would be down. Down to about fifty degrees centigrade. Centigrade.
AP: What, what was your evacuation drill if you had to leave an aircraft in a hurry? What would you have done as the rear gunner in a Lancaster?
JS: Well, you had to get around, open the doors, grab your parachute. The parachute wasn’t in the turret. It was inside the aircraft. Grab the turret and either get it back and jump out of the, from the turret or get out through the main door. And the idea was to roll over so that you didn’t get hit by the tail fin.
AP: It sounds like it would take a fair bit of time that you probably might not have had.
JS: Yeah. And if you were doing it at say eighteen thousand, you know we would be bombing at about twenty one thousand. You know. You know, coming down all of a sudden. Pretty hard getting out I’d imagine.
AP: How many, how many trips did you actually do?
JS: Twenty five.
AP: Twenty five. And it was the twenty fifth trip which you were injured.
JS: Twenty fifth I met my Waterloo.
AP: Do you know what it actually was that hit you? You said you never saw a fighter.
JS: No. I suspect it was — of course the Germans were sending out anti-aircraft fire from the ground. But I strongly suspect it was one of these, these fighters that were down below, below me and sent up a shell hoping to knock out the aircraft. Perhaps his shot wasn’t all that good and hit the turret.
AP: Was that the only damage to the aircraft that you know of?
JS: Yes.
AP: Yeah. So, and you were the only one injured.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Luck of the draw isn’t it?
JS: Yeah. Luck of the draw.
AP: Yeah. Very much so. Do any of your other operations stand out in your memory at all? Any, any other interesting ones?
JS: There was one particular night there was a bit of a disagreement between the navigator and the pilot as the track which we should go back on and we wandered over, over France and got coned by about a half a dozen searchlights. We thought we were a bit lucky to get out of that and didn’t deserve to get out of it really. Another night, taking off, the aircraft swung across to starboard and pretty much out of the control of the pilot really. Scooped off the runway. Got up alright but was a bit dicey there for a few minutes. You know there was a tremendous amount of people killed over there as a result of sheer accidents really. You know there was six hundred and fifty two thousand killed in Bomber Command and a very high percentage of those were due to accidents and not involving operations.
AP: Yeah. It was a large, it was, was a certainly a large —
JS: Yeah.
AP: Before they even got on to a squadron let alone —
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah.
JS: There was about four hundred plus or minus a few Australians killed over in, in Europe.
AP: Yeah. There were quite a few.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Oh, Morton Hall. I was going to ask you about that. My great, this is the personal bit for the tape. My great uncle, so my Bomber Command connection spent some time at Morton Hall as well.
JS: Yes.
AP: It’s written in the back of his logbook. I don’t know what he did there.
JS: No.
AP: So, if you could expand a little bit on that that would be really cool.
JS: Just a commando school to make us physically fit. It was, you know, it was important to be fit for flying. It was also if you happened to parachute down into Europe to try and escape. You know. It was good fun and I enjoyed it very much until the second day I sprained my ankle.
AP: That was the end of that.
JS: Harris, the, in charge of Bomber Command. We didn’t ever see him at the airfields. We used to refer to him as Butcher Harris.
AP: London is, is something that comes up often in these interviews. Aircrew sort of seemed to gravitate to London on leave or as they were passing through on the way to other things. Obviously, you spent a little bit more time there than most at Kodak House.
JS: Yes.
AP: But I’m interested in perhaps in what, what sort of things you did in London. What did you see? What did you do? When you weren’t, when you weren’t necessarily at work.
JS: Well I used to see my cousin a fair amount. We’d often go out for a few drinks. He knew the London area pretty well. He’d been there since well before the war. Knew a place down near Victoria, Victoria Street station where we could get some steak. That was a pretty important factor over there. We weren’t great drinkers. I was never a great drinker, and I wasn’t a smoker.
AP: That’s, yeah that’s it’s something that a lot of people seemed to meet friends in London as well.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: The Boomerang Club for example.
JS: Yeah.
AP: There was a signing in book or something. You’d look through and go, ‘Oh, I know him.’
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Very good. I guess we’re getting pretty close to the end of my list of questions. You said you weren’t a great drinker. Did you spend any time in the local pub near Skellingthorpe? What was it called? And what happened?
JS: No. We spent more, more time in the local pub at Lutterworth drinking some of the warm beer. Looking at the fire. There was always a fireplace so, and there was always somebody who could play a piano, have a sing song and very enjoyable nights.
AP: Excellent. Piano is something you don’t get very often these days either.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Alright. I guess we’ll jump down towards the end now. You’ve told me what you did in civilian life. How is, how do you think Bomber Command is remembered and what sort of legacy do you think?
JS: Well, unfortunately, of course they got a bad name on the, on that last raid to Dresden. A lot of people think that that was unnecessary. I think it was probably at the request, to some degree by the Russians and of course not only did the RAF operate at Dresden the Americans sent daylight aircraft over there. And that seems to be, seemed to be forgotten. You know, Harris after the war he didn’t get any, any knighthood. He went back to South Africa, I think. I’ve got an idea he went to Kenya where he’d come from originally.
AP: So, for, how do you remember your time in Bomber Command. What did you get out of it, I suppose?
JS: A great experience. Great experience. I had a world’s trip.
AP: I guess that’s —
JS: A selfish, selfish attitude but that’s what it was.
AP: That’s —
JS: I, you know, saw places. I’ve never been back to England. I haven’t been outside of Australia at all.
AP: That was, that was your one opportunity and you grabbed it.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Very much so. Well, I guess that’s, that’s really all I’ve got for you.
JS: Yeah.
AP: So, thank you very much Joe.
JS: That’s alright.
AP: It’s been a pleasure.
JS: How much do I owe you?
AP: [laughs] Not at all.
[recording paused]
JS: Control at the aerodromes were girls.
AP: Ah yes.
JS: Talk you in. Sometimes you’d come back after operation — you might be ten or fifteen thousand feet and you’d come down on five hundred feet levels.
AP: Someone would have to control that.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Do you, do you remember much about the process of arriving back at the base?
JS: Well I was, you know we were treated like heroes when you came back. As I’ve said before the station commander and the wing commander if he, sometimes he’d be on operations but generally he wasn’t. They were there to, to greet you. And sometimes the commodore within 5 Group was 54 base and that covered Skellingthorpe, Bardney, number 9 Squadron. And 463 and 467 at Waddington. It was 54 base and there would be an air commodore in charge of that and sometimes he’d be there to, to greet you.
AP: That’s pretty [pause] yeah. Excellent so , ok why not keep going? When you, when you arrived back you come back to dispersal, the engines shut down. What do you feel? What do you think?
JS: Relief. It was nice to get out. Out of that aircraft. Get some of that flying gear off. You know these Taylor suite. These great huge yellow heated suits. Get that off and out of uniform would have underclothing. Cotton. Warm underclothing. Long strides and singlets. So, you liked to get that out of the aircraft. Outer garment off. It was a relief of that’s another one towards the twenty five, from the thirty. They didn’t, we’d hoped to, our aim was to complete the thirty and then go to Pathfinders. Kind of liked an eagle on my uniform but I didn’t.
AP: Did the rest of your crew go on?
JS: No. No. They were all, all killed.
AP: Oh really?
JS: They went on flying and were killed.
AP: So you, I guess you got away with it didn’t you?
JS: Yes. Yes, I was one of the lucky ones.
AP: Yeah very much so. What was, what actually was the target that night and when, what night was it. Can you remember?
JS: No.
AP: No. Sorry. That you were. That you were — sorry.
JS: Yeah. Well I was in hospital.
AP: Sorry.
JS: Yeah.
AP: The night that you were injured what was that?
JS: Berlin.
AP: Berlin. On which trip? What night? Do you know what the date was?
JS: 25th .
AP: Of?
JS: ’43. No. No ’44. ’44.
AP: ’44. So, March. Was that March?
JS: Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Ok.
JS: Yeah.
AP: Ok. My great uncle was on that trip as well.
JS: Yeah. Of course, as you know they had some disastrous trips. Leipzig, they lost seventy nine and about ninety six, ninety seven at Nuremberg.
AP: Yeah. They were all in, in that area.
JS: Yeah.
AP: And there was a Munich trip in there as well.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: And there was a whole bunch. Yeah. That was a particularly bad time to be operating actually.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. Wow. That’s, you were very lucky then.
JS: Yeah.
AP: To be taken off ops then.
JS: Of course, the Americans saved us really with their capacity. The manpower and their capacity to build ships and provide aircraft. I don’t think England would have been able to survive without American help. If the Japanese hadn’t have come in I think ultimately Hitler would have been, invaded England.
AP: It could have been a very, very different war.
JS: Yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yes, that —
JS: You know, the American capacity. I know was probably a stunt but they, they built one of those Liberty ships, about ten thousand tonnes in three and half days. Working twenty four hours, seven days.
AP: Craziness. Shows what wartime economies can, can achieve.
JS: Yeah.
AP: To a certain extent for unlimited. Very good. Ok. Anything else you have to add?
JS: No.
AP: Just before I turn it off again.
JS: No. That’s about it, I think.
AP: That’s about it. That’s, that’s very good actually.
JS: Yeah.
AP: That’s some very good stuff there.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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AShuttleworthHJ151021, PShuttleworthJ1501
Title
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Interview with Joe Shuttleworth
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:03:05 audio recording
Creator
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Adam Purcell
Date
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2015-10-21
Description
An account of the resource
Joe Shuttleworth was born and raised in Brisbane but also spent a lot of time with family in the Melbourne area. He volunteered for aircrew and soon began training as a gunner. After initial training he sailed to the United States and on to the UK. While at operational training unit at RAF Bruntingthorpe he went to the local village where a chance encounter led to meeting his future wife who he married in 1943. He was posted to 50 Squadron as an air gunner and was based at RAF Skellingthorpe. On his twenty fifth operation which was to Berlin he experienced a sudden flash and a searing pain. One of the crew managed to pull him out of the turret. He was taken to hospital at RAF Rauceby where he lost his eye. The rest of his crew continued to fly but they were all killed in a later operation. Joe returned to Australia where his wife joined him a year later. He remembers his time with Bomber Command as a wonderful experience which led him to see the world. After the war Joe never left Australia again.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Great Britain
United States
England--Lincolnshire
New York (State)--New York
Queensland--Brisbane
Victoria--Melbourne
Germany
Germany--Heidelberg
Victoria
New York (State)
Queensland
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1943
29 OTU
50 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
crash
Lancaster
love and romance
mess
military living conditions
Nissen hut
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bitteswell
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF hospital Rauceby
RAF Morton Hall
RAF Skellingthorpe
take-off crash
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/669/10073/AAn00086-150722.1.mp3
b69da3885a99576f6754191029cb4a7c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
An00086
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with a flight engineer who completed a full tour of operations on Lancasters. The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by a donor who wishes to be anonymous and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
An00086
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AS: My name is Adam Sutch and I’m conducting an oral interview for the International Bomber Command Centre Archive. It’s the 22nd of July 2015. The interviewee wishes to preserve his anonymity but I can record that he was a flight engineer on a Lancaster squadron from May 1944 carrying out a full tour of operations. Thank you so much for agreeing to this interview. I’d like to set the scene by asking you to describe your life before joining the Air Force.
Anonymous: My life before joining the Air Force. Right. Well, I was one of three sons of a widowed mother and in 1939 I was fourteen years old, I think. Yes. Fourteen. Both my brothers, well one brother was already in the Royal Navy having joined when he was twenty one in 1936. So he was at sea when the war started and my second brother joined the Air Force a few months later. So I was left at home to comfort mother and because most of our school in Kent were disrupted by evacuation of children I left school and worked in Chatham Dockyard for a time in various jobs and took the apprentice’s exam there. And was about to sign indentures to become a bench carpenter or something similar but backed off that and my mother couldn’t persuade me from setting my sights on joining the Air Force when I was eighteen. But before that I attempted the aircrew selection board at seventeen and a quarter. I expect you know about that. When one went to London for a selection day and went home miserable because one had failed. But, and they told me to come back when I was eighteen. Ok. And so I went back to Chatham Dockyard and then I, as soon as I was approaching eighteen I volunteered for the Royal Air Force. For ground duties in fact because I’d failed the Aircrew Selection Board first time around. Then what happened? Yes. I was called up. Did the usual rooting through square bashing at Skegness for six weeks and did ability, multiple, multi-choice questionings to see what I was fit for. And they said, ‘Well, you would make a half decent flight mechanic.’ So I was then posted to Cosford for a six month flight mechanic’s course I sort of quite enjoyed. During the course the aircrew occupational flight engineer was introduced. And I think that was in ‘42/’43. Hang on a minute. Ok. Yes. So that was halfway through that flight mechanic’s course. They sent around recruiting sergeants to gather volunteers for aircrew you see. And, and I saw it as an opportunity to do what I’d wanted to do from the start. Aircrew selection board at Birmingham. And I passed that one. Some of the questions were the same ones as I’d answered earlier. But anyway, anyway I passed that one and then I had to complete the flight mechanic’s course before I could go down to St Athan. Anyway, I did that. I did quite well in the exam when I passed out. Then I had to wait for the, for the entries to be teamed up properly you know. In the right capacities and so on. So I did a period of maintenance work on Spitfires on 222 Squadron at Hornchurch. Then in [pause] when did I go? September ’43. Oh, that’s when, yes then I went to St Athan in ’43 as part of the entry of — oh we were all ex-flight mechanics in that particular entry because they based your training to be a flight engineer on your previous experience. So they had a good history of that you see. So that was that and that lasted until January ’44. Way into the spring of ’44. And the day of my final exam I was in hospital with the flu. But anyway, so I was delayed from my colleagues and that’s just a by the way. I lost track of them. But in due course, it was only about two or three months, two or three weeks later I went to Dishforth in Yorkshire to do something called a Heavy Conversion Unit. You’re familiar with those?
AS: Yes.
Anonymous: Yeah. Dishforth. And from there I joined, well I joined up with a crew of Canadians and an American pilot on 419 Squadron. They’d already done, they’d been up to, what do we call it? Operational Training Unit. You know, they were, they’d been through the first bit of being a crew. A six man crew. But they had no flight engineers. They didn’t train them in Canada apparently. So we were bolted on at the Heavy Conversion Unit stage using ancient Halifaxes to, to get familiar with four engines, you know. And for the pilots too because our pilots, you know they were astounded by the size of the four engine ones. And so it was, we were only there for about a fortnight. And then we went on to Middleton St George in, when was that? May, I think. May. Yeah. Just after. Yeah. Yeah. Just after that. May ’44. Went to Middleton St George. And I don’t know if you want any silly humorous things. Semi humorous things. The first thing we did when we got there all the flight engineers on our course concentrated on Halifaxes. This is a typical bit of service. So, I learned all about a Halifax. This will tell you all sorts of things about a Halifax in there. And when we got to Middleton they’d just converted to Lancs you know. Great. Great. Only two weeks previously. So we all had, I had to do a lot of re-learning and, and we did our customary getting used to flying the Lancaster thing. And we wrote off the first one we rode. There was a tyre creep that we weren’t familiar with and the bell blew off halfway down the runway on a very fine Sunday afternoon. So we spent two or three hours messing about over Stockton on Tees etcetera getting rid of petrol. And then we had to attempt a two wheel landing on one of the — I should have said that the, the portside tyre blew off or burst when we were half the way down the runway. We were empty fortunately. No bomb load. And so we stooged around and got rid of the petrol and then we were carrying on to the rear wheel and the good wheel and we were doing very well and holding it levelly until the speed diminished and the wing dropped. And the, where the tyre had burst it dug into the, into the edge of the runway and slewed the aircraft right around and broke its back. And by some quirk of fate it was the particular aircraft that the CO had selected to be his own [laughs] Such as [laughs] Yeah.
AS: Promising start.
Anonymous: So the next time he saw it it was at the end being towed away rather sadly to the end of the runway. The end of the airfield. And I don’t know what happened to it after that. Poor chap. But it was interesting being with Canadians and an American. You know, there was the cultural difference. I mean they eat like eating your first meat meal with jam on it which my pilot liked doing. American Joe this was. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Joe Hartshorn. He was, he was quite a distinguished American pilot and, well he did very well with us actually. But yeah he was a geologist by profession and a very interesting man. And I’ve got something here that he wrote. I don’t know if it, I wonder if it would be any help to you. He wrote his account of life in Bomber Command as an American and he called it, “Under Three Flags,” because he was an American. He went into the Canadian Air Force because he, before the war, before America was in the war and then he was flying under the Union Jack as well. So under three flags. Yeah. They were an immigrant family. His father was a miner in the North Country and they’d gone over there. Anyway, so where were we? On —
AS: You’d just written off the COs Lancaster.
Anonymous: Was it? We then embarked on our, on our operational tour. And I’ve got my logbook. It’s, it’s a very poor standard of paper in some of the logbooks. I suppose it didn’t get a lot of priority really at that time. Is this stuff I’m giving you any use to you?
AS: It is. If there is something beyond gold dust Ken this is it.
Anonymous: Oh right [laughs] Right. So where do we go first? We did our first one. Let’s have a look. That was number seven. [unclear] in, a French troop camp and rest centre. In Belgium it was. Four hours thirty minutes.
AS: Ken, this was just before D-Day you went on ops was it?
Anonymous: Yeah. Well, sadly, it was. Yeah. Because it wasn’t enough before D-Day for us to get the Aircrew Europe medal. Medal. We did, well I’ll tell you, you needn’t write this down early but we did, we completed a tour of thirty two sorties and collected three DFCs and a DFM but we didn’t get the Europe. Anyway —
AS: Because it stopped after the 6th of June didn’t it? it was the —
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: Something like that. Yeah. I’ve long since ceased crying myself to sleep to do that. You know. So that was that. Now that was about the time that the only Canadian VC was earned. You know, the Polish chap.
AS: Mynarski.
Anonymous: That’s him. Yeah. He was on 419. I think, yeah there were two air, there was two squadrons on 419 but I’m sure he was 419. We didn’t know him because we’d only been there about a couple of weeks, you know. But reading accounts of how he earned his VC that’s where it places him. Yeah. So that was interesting. That was a revelation to us all. And of course Joe, the pilot, had done two earlier ones as spare pilot for experience with, with an experienced crew. Just, just went as second pilot on those but that didn’t affect the rest of us. So then we started here. When the first, I mean after the initial shock of seeing, they saw this illumination and explosion ahead of you that you’d got to go flying through we — I don’t know if you want to read that little bit. It came out of the local paper. The paper the Canadians produced. Lorne Vince. That’s it.
AS: It’s staggering that. You know.
Other: It’s great isn’t it?
AS: Yeah.
Other: It’s amazing what’s on there.
Anonymous: I think I’m the only survivor of these you know.
Other: Amazing.
Anonymous: Yeah. Yeah.
Other: But did you kept in good touch after the war?
Anonymous: Yes. I’ve got some photographs of meeting the two gunners and their wives in Toronto when it was our golden wedding anniversary.
Other: Oh brilliant.
Anonymous: We did Canada that year. Yeah.
Other: That would have been rather touching wasn’t it? Catching up after all that time.
Anonymous: Yes. I’ve kept in touch with Joe the pilot by correspondence as well.
Other: Yeah.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: That is amazing. Was this your first trip? When you went on to —
Anonymous: No. That was number — let’s see. It was up the Ruhr somewhere wasn’t it? Yeah. Let’s have a look.
AS: That sounds quite hairy. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about that.
Anonymous: It was. It was rotten. Yeah. June the — what was it? Number six I thought it was. Bad luck when you can’t read your own logbook isn’t it? Fighter cover. Oh, Sterkrade. That’s the one.
AS: Ok.
Anonymous: That’s the one. Number six.
AS: Ok. So, so that was a daylight op.
Anonymous: No, it was night.
AS: Ok
Anonymous: Does it, does it give a departure time or —
AS: It does. Yeah. 20:14 you’re right
Anonymous: On there. It doesn’t say that?
AS: 20:14. Yeah. You’re right.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: So obviously your gunners are heavily involved. What, what happened on that particular occasion? Can you tell us a little about that?
Anonymous: Well we were, there was a lot of, let me just refresh my memory on it. Then it was, “Shot up by a fighter.” Yeah. “Hammy injured.” Yeah. Ok. Yeah. What happened was the rear gunner shouted out. We were, we were within sight of the target in the Ruhr and Lorne Vince, the rear gunner, shouted, ‘Corkscrew.’ You know, ‘There’s a fighter coming in.’ Or whatever he said at the time. And he let off a burst and the chap came around again. He must have ducked under us and come up again and he raked us from the rear turret right up through the aircraft. The mid-upper turret had a hole, both sides of it, both sides of the globe, you know and poor old Jason was sat there with his head still on, you know. But he was alright. A bit shaken up. And then it came up through the, through the crew area. You know. Up at the front. And some of the flying shrapnel or whatever it was wounded the navigator in the arm and in the leg and he lost a good number of his instruments. And there was a certain amount of flapping going on up there as well. And anyway, Joe kept the aircraft under control and, and Lorne Vince, the gunner must have let off another burst because he got it credited to him as a probable you know. A bit stronger than a probable maybe. Anyway, they decorated him from it and, but we were like a colander by this time, you know, we’re — yeah. And it was very hairy alright but the bomb aimer was ok and we sort of pressed on and got rid of our bombs and got back home in a mess. As Joe, the pilot said, with less aircraft than we started with [laughs] Yes. And so that was our, that was our initiation into the real thing, you know. Yeah. So that was, but Hammy by the way, the navigator, he navigated us home by dead reckoning. You know. He’d lost so many of his instruments and, and so on. Anyway, so he was decorated as well for that account and repatriated so we didn’t see him again. He was the, he was older than the rest of us.
Other: Was he?
Anonymous: Yes. There he is. Hammy. The tall, the tall one second from the right. Left is it?
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: Yeah. That’s it. That’s Hammy. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, he died. He died quite a young man, I think. After the war. But, but he was two or three years older than us and it sort of showed when some of you were nineteen, you know and you’ve got a twenty six, a twenty six year old chap with you, you know.
AS: It’s taking your grandad along.
Anonymous: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. He was great. He was a great chap actually. Anyway, so yeah, so that’s our, then it, I mean I can’t tell you about the variations of the various trips. These were all — if these are in green they’re daylight and if they’re in red they’re night ones. So we, you know, by number eleven we were up the Ruhr again and I mean the typical report would be, “Heavy flak. No fighters.” You know. That was a rail one actually. “Heavy barrage over target,” at Kiel and so on. Stuttgart — flak over target. And so we went on until August time and we were now getting to be a, a sort of an experienced crew you know. And regarded as having a certain amount of luck. Then we had to go, on our twenty third trip we had to go to Stettin which is a long way north isn’t it? And very heavy flak there. I mean the trip took eight hours. It was the longest one we’d done actually. Eight hours and fifty minutes. That’s virtually nine hours isn’t it? And, but we got back unscathed from that. Then we all went on leave and when we got back the first one we were booked for was Stettin [laughs] again. Now this time, I’m speaking from memory now, we were carted around to the dispersals to get in the aircraft, which we did. And we started up and we started taxi-ing around to the, to the hut you know and the breaking and the steering on the ground is all controlled by the rudders. The rudders isn’t it? It was. And there was some fault in that and so we had to stop on the, on the, not on the runway but on the track around. Perimeter track. And they fixed that. Cost us about a half an hour. Three quarters of an hour I suppose. But it’s like going to the pick your own at the supermarket. You know. You get the benefit and then you’ve got to pay for it. By the time we got over the, over to Stettin the main stream had gone through. We’d lost the benefit of Window. You know. The strips. So we were virtually doing a solo act. Not quite of course. There must have been others around. But anyway we were coned by searchlights on the bomb run and, and there wasn’t serious damage but we did [pause] it did start a fire in the starboard inner engine. And we lost, we lost height and we [pause] sufficiently to say in the logbook that we bombed at eleven thousand feet which was quite low, you know. So, and the, I mean it’s quite frightening really when you see these flames going back over the fuselage on the main plane. And the poor old rear gunner in all the noise and shouting and searchlights and so on he [laughs] he came on, ‘What the hell’s happening up there?’ He said, ‘I can’t see a thing.’ You know. So we had to put him in the picture and fortunately we had this cockpit controlled, control for fire extinguishing on each engine. You’d got four, four buttons and you pressed one for each relative engine. And the fire went out. Yeah. It was between fuel tanks. You know, the engine. The starboard inner. And then there was the fuel tank and then another engine but the fuel tank in the middle. It hadn’t got across there and there were no leaks sufficiently to get a big fire going. And what happens with the, when you press that button the engine feathers as well, you know. The blades come around. Do you fly by the way?
AS: A little bit.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: A little bit. Yeah.
Anonymous: So you know what I’m talking about when I say feathering.
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: Yeah. And, and the fire went out. So we all breathed a sigh of relief and set off home, you know. And the practice on our squadron was, half way home normally, if you were over the water you would open the bomb bay doors, give it a shake around a bit to make sure there were no hang-ups and then close the doors again and proceed. When we did that the aerodynamic effect was that it changed the setting of the damaged engine’s propeller and it started unfeathering. All the temperatures went up in there and the fire started again. We were, you know we were well over the North Sea now. Between Stettin and Darlington if you like. Yeah. And we pressed the button again and by some act of God the fire went out again. So we, well to cut the rest of it short we got back [laughs] but it was remarkable really. It was a dickens of a way to contemplate going. Yeah. I mean the Lanc was quite capable of flying on three engines with quite a load on but, yeah but that distance over water, very cold water. Yeah. Anyway, yes, whatever, which one I started. These are not here. But do you know it’s a funny frame of mind you’re in when you’re on these tours. There’s some sort of, oh I don’t know the word [pause] togetherness you know. And a lot of, a lot of genuine feeling is disguised by either bad language or drinking or, or too much bonhomie. You know. That sort of thing. But by and large there was very very few that you come across that were blighted with this wretched, what was it, LMF thing, wasn’t it? Yeah. Yes. That was dreadful. Yes. It’s the only service that punish people to that extent to make it so [pause] Yeah. Yes ok. So there we go. Then we got up to twenty and we began to get hopeful now. By this time, by the way we were going on a number of daylights. D-Day would pass and we were doing army support ones. And the only thing I mention that for is that here you might have seen this in oh that’s one little thing. That was, that was an unofficial photograph taken at the sergeant’s mess on the occasion of that.
AS: The Moose Men. 419 Squadron.
Anonymous: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s yours truly holding that end up.
[pause]
AS: No tie, Ken.
Anonymous: Hmmn?
AS: No tie.
Anonymous: [laughs] No. We were just come back. I don’t know. We used to say that the last thing the cook and butchers did in the kitchen when we were taking off, as soon as the sound died down they put our fried eggs on. They were like yellow rubber heels by the time we got back. So, no. No. This was, the reason I mentioned daylight ones was you might have seen this in, in journals of some sort.
AS: So this, taken from an another aircraft above.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: The Lancaster almost directly underneath. That must have been quite a scary position to be in.
Anonymous: Oh yes. For them it was. The thing is, it was at, we took the photograph.
AS: Oh right.
Anonymous: Yeah. And I’ve got the original. The photographic department broke all the rules and gave us the photograph. Yeah. So, it was us that took the photograph. And what it, it wasn’t somebody aiming a camera at it. It was the, you know at the end of the bomb run, the last exposure on the camera which was photographing the target would be the result if they could. And so that was what, that’s what got caught in the, in the last flash. And you’ll find that in many, many journals on it. Yeah.
AS: That’s extraordinary.
Anonymous: Yeah.
Other: Good framing isn’t it? Great.
Anonymous: Yeah. So, the only other thing we did we — D-Day the Canadian army I think it was, was held up in the Falaise Gap. You know. And we were doing a daylight on the 14th of August in ’44. And it was the one occasion when we earned one of those. Have you seen one of those before?
AS: I have not seen an original. I’ve actually seen a copy of this one.
Anonymous: Have you?
AS: On the internet. On the Moose Men website.
Anonymous: Oh yes.
AS: I have never seen the target token original. That’s just fantastic.
Anonymous: Yeah. That’s one you can take away, I think. If you wish.
AS: Absolutely. Thank you. That will, that will go in the archive.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: Absolutely go in the archive.
Anonymous: Yeah. Ok. And so that was, claimed to be a direct hit you see, on the target which did us all a lot of good, you know. And this — we’d, we got out of our aircraft coming back from a daylight. An early morning one, you know so about a 6 o’clock take-off when we were attacking the flying bomb sites. Ok. And I don’t know, one of the WAAFs I expect had a camera that she shouldn’t have had. And she was down at the dispersal and she took one of each of us as we got out. Apart from Joe. He stayed in.
AS: How did you feel about being photographed? A lot of crew have told me that, or some crew have told me that they felt it was, it was not good luck.
Anonymous: Oh really.
AS: I didn’t, obviously didn’t bother you.
Anonymous: No. No. I don’t think that. I don’t think we discussed that one. No. We were all too vain I expect. Yeah.
Other: How old was the oldest?
Anonymous: Hmmn?
Other: How old was the oldest crew member?
Anonymous: Hamilton. But he only did six with us so he was [pause] I suppose the next one might have been Joe but he was only two or three years older than us, you know.
Other: Yeah.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: Shall we, shall we have a pause there Ken?
Anonymous: Yeah. Why not.
[recording paused]
AS: Here we are back from, from our break. Ken, I’d like to go into your memories of the crew as individuals and then perhaps some of the reunions and the way you kept in touch after that war. If that would suit.
Anonymous: Yes. Right. Well from the top then. We had this maverick chap with us. An American lieutenant of the American Army Air Force who had originally gone up across the relevant parallel to join the RCAF, the Canadian Air Force, before America came into the war. And he did this at the risk of losing his American citizenship in those early days. This was later changed when — after Pearl Harbour. So Joe was a man of great flying ability and saw us through many tight, out of many tight corners. And we were pleased to say that at the end of his time with the Canadian Air Force he went back to the Americans and had quite a distinguished career. A career with them. And became one of the few people in the Air Forces who had a DFC from both of them. Who earned a DFC from both of them. I don’t know why he got it in the American one but I know he stayed in the reserve after the war but we’re thinking about wartime relative. W/O Keelan, Keelan, Bill Keelan was, now where did he live? Somewhere near the Rockies. And he, we acquired Bill when we lost our original navigator over the Ruhr on our sixth trip. Bill was a very quiet chap and kept into, kept at his desk. Rarely came out to view the bomb run or anything of that sort. But he was surprised on one occasion and a bit startled I think when he did pop his head out and saw three or four flamers going down not too far away from us during the bomb run. So he was, it didn’t affect him fortunately. So, and then there’s Tony Delaney was the bomb aimer who often, people who wanted to be pilots but lacked some characteristic that was required and often became bomb aimers. Did you come across that before?
AS: Yes. I think so. Yeah.
Anonymous: You know a lot of people going over from this country had the same sort of selection process I think. And then W/O Lyall. He was quite experienced. The wireless operator. Always anxious to be in the middle of things and, and when he, when he was involved in the shoot up over the Ruhr he was, he was very active in trying to get around and see what else he could do apart from wireless operating at the time. Fred. Fred Grumbly and Lorne Vince both had the same characters really in the sense that they were quite at home being alone for some of these long trips with nobody around them or close to them. You know. And I don’t know what else I can say about them really. So, about the, what we were saying about, yes, seeing them again. Yeah. That’s right. Seeing them again. Yes. For our, for our personal golden wedding my wife and I went to Canada and by arrangement we met both Fred Grumbly and Lorne Vince together with their wives at Toronto and had a marvellous day around the, what is it? The CN Tower or something?
AS: The CNN I think it is. They’re broadcasting towers, I think. Broadcasting.
Anonymous: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s — oh then in addition to that Joe Hartshorn and I kept in touch for most of the period. And he was coming over to Europe on one occasion and came and stayed in Modbury which is quite, that’s this little town here. And he’d expressed a wish to go to an old English pub and stay with his partner and we duly fitted him up with that. And he came over and we had some time together. Took him over on Dartmoor and showed him all the sites over there. And then when he saw me the day after they’d spent their first night in the pub I’d put them in. He said, ‘Marvellous, ‘he said, ‘Lovely flagstones floors.’ You know. He said, ‘It’s the first building I’ve seen in the whole world and I’ve been around a bit,’ he said, ‘That didn’t have a straight wall in it, [laughs] or a right angle in it.’ A right angle. The first building he’d found without a right angle. Yeah.
AS: As a crew. Not when you were operating. When you were down did you all live together?
Anonymous: Well, I mean we were, we were non-commissioned people. Joe, Joe and the navigator Bill, oh wait a minute. Joe was in the officer’s mess, Keelan wasn’t. Delaney was in the officer’s mess. So there were just two in the officer’s mess and the rest of us were in the sergeant’s mess, you know. NCO’s mess. Yeah. So, but socially some of us used to go to the dance hall in Stockton on Tees. The Maison de Dance I think it was called [laughs] with the pub right opposite the door. Yes. So that was our, that was our sort of, I don’t know, our respite I suppose. Swap one noise for another. Yes. But I shall forever remember the Glenn Miller record of “American Patrol,” because we used to think at times it was the only one the band knew. But it stayed with me you know. The American.
Other: The theme tune.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: Your tour seemed to pass relatively quickly. You got thirty two ops in in what, four months which is, is quite — did you feel that you were, it was all happening under pressure? Bang bang bang or did you get lots of time off?
Anonymous: I don’t, I can’t recall. I don’t think we were ever concerned about the frequency. Only if we’d had four in one week we might have done but it was sufficiently phased, I think, to avoid that. I mean during the, this isn’t for, for the narrative by the way, my narrative. My personal view is that the area or the timing of the, all the bravery and so on of Bomber Command doesn’t give enough attention to the early ones who would take off, six or eight of them. Blenheims would take off from Detling and if a couple came back, you know, they’d had a good day. Their navigation wasn’t as good and the equipment wasn’t, was it? You know. But some of those chaps were doing very very long deep European ones and coastal ones. Heavily defended. You know, around the dockyards and so on. I sometimes think that they almost deserve a separate recognition but I know that’s, that’s a vain hope. I do feel, you know, it’s quite right. I mean, if you lose fifty four thousand people and you’re the only command that ever, that was still going at the end of the war that started off then there’s going to be a lots of bravery. I mean there must have been thousands of acts of bravery that nobody will ever know about. Mustn’t there? Yeah.
AS: Someone has to come back to tell. Yeah.
Anonymous: That’s right. Yes. I mean if our, if our engines hadn’t reignited or if the one hadn’t come to life again we could have been in the bottom of the North Sea couldn’t we? In August 1944. No trace. That’s what Runnymede is largely about you know. People who, well they don’t know whether there’s any grave for them. Yeah. Ok. So what was the question?
AS: We were, we had been through your recollections of your crew and keeping in touch after the war. Perhaps we could, we could move on a bit to a different aspect of being a crew. I mean it’s often said that the, the successful and surviving crews were in large part very very disciplined and very skilled. Was your captain? Were you, as a crew practicing your drills, emergency drills religiously? How did you become such an efficient and surviving crew?
Anonymous: Yeah. [pause] I can’t say there was ever any dedicated. You’d have to be selective about what you put here because I don’t want, the last thing I want to do is ruffle, ruffle any feathers. We rarely had team cooperation lectures or practices. We used to do it in practical ways by doing cross country’s at night, you know. And bombing Hull at night. That sort of thing. Yeah. It was practical. Hands on building really. But the most thing, the best thing to build the morale and so on was to get involved in to our Ruhr experience and see what comes out. You know. See where the deficiencies are. Because I mean, talking in modern, modern terms we have this thing called the annual review in big business now don’t we?
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: And there was a lot of suspicion about it when it first came in wasn’t there? Because they thought it was a way of getting rid of me but in fact it was the positive was you got many good qualities which we want to further and exploit and tidy them up or you’ve got several bad habits that are not acceptable. You know. There was a [pause] but I mean none of that, the services have got the basis, or the big advantage of having discipline haven’t they? You know. Ranking. If you come, I was asked to come and work in Plymouth for a time. You can’t say to a man in Civvy Street, ‘You’ll do this because,’ you know, ‘I’ve got three pips and you’ve got three stripes,’ you know. Yeah. You can’t do that. But the military and all the, all those people that have the big weapon of discipline haven’t we? Disciplinary procedures and so on. Anyway, I don’t know why I’m telling you all that but that’s what came more when I was I was doing, well involved in personnel work before I retired you see. So.
AS: I think there’s an element of doing a post mortem really after action. And you linked it to the Ruhr. Your Ruhr operations. So was that, was that a feature of your crew interaction that you discussed previous operations? Hairy experiences or —
Anonymous: I didn’t, I wasn’t party to any discussion on that.
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: No. No. I mean there’s a certain amount of, of relief really that the survivors if you like come back. I don’t, I can’t recall any where they said well we knew there was a bit of a weak link there, you know. Or he ought to be off to Eastchurch. To the LMF camp. You know. Yeah. Yeah. So —
AS: Could we go down a slightly different track and this would be very familiar to you but perhaps not to many people who’ll listen to this interview. Could you, could you take me through a raid from, from basically getting up, going through the briefing. I know a lot of them are different but if you —
Anonymous: You’re asking a lot.
AS: Ok.
Anonymous: I mean I’m ninety one next month, you know. You’re doing very well. You’re dredging all that [laughs]
AS: Would you like me to stop?
Anonymous: Yeah. Go on. Stop it for a minute. Yeah.
[recording paused]
Anonymous: That was not dealt with. No. No. That’s, that’s not right. There wasn’t any so it didn’t need to be dealt with. Joe was a very good, very good captain and, yeah, he really was. He was, he was quite an impressive bloke. He was, he didn’t go, he didn’t socialise a lot. He would, he would never go to hear the, “American Patrol” in the dance hall, you know. You wouldn’t find him there. But, yeah, he was, he was a good man and he held the team together very well. Yeah. So no. I can’t, I can’t deal with that question very, very much I’m afraid from personal experience.
AS: That’s absolutely, absolutely fine.
Anonymous: Ok. But I mean as far as the sequence goes each, each aircrew category had their own building somewhere on the, you know, their hut. The flight engineer’s hut was down near the dispersals. So you’d go down there in the morning and on the wall there was a list like a league table and and it would say, “Flying tonight,” Or whatever, you know, “Engaged tonight.” And there would be the captain’s name all the way down. And then the last figure on it would, I think from memory, fuel load. You know. Which caused speculation then because they said fuel load, or bomb load, whichever. If the, if it was a lot of petrol and not so much bomb load you knew you were going a long way. That’s right. So, so there’d just be the captain’s name and then briefing would be about, well it would depend on the take-off time really. And you’d all go down to the, to the central building and be briefed. All the crew. 419, everybody went. You know. The whole crew. And you were briefed by the various people. The Met people and the navigational people and one or two others and yes I remember the day of Arnhem. Arnhem was it? Yeah. Arnhem. Joe was, Joe was labelled with the name of ‘fearless Hartshorn’[laughs] Yeah. He carried that label for some time. But they had this tape going across Europe you know. The end of the tape would be the target. And, and then there was one that finished on the, right on the coastline. And I remember the, the briefer saying, ‘Don’t get fooled by that one that finishes at the coastline. It’s not Fearless off on his own again,’ you know, or something like that. And [laughs] but in fact it was, it was the Arnhem flight that was being carried out by the airborne people. And they were just telling us this would be about. You know, there would be a lot of activity down there. And we were doing, we did a diversionary raid further south. I can’t remember when it was but if you know the date of Arnhem I could probably tell you when it was from here. But anyway, yeah so that would and then we’d all troop off and go and have our yellow rubber heel at the, you know [laughs] Or was that when we came back wasn’t it? When we came back. Yeah. That maligns the cooks and butchers of course but it was one of those things that happened in the service isn’t it? Yeah. So we’d then go back to our huts or whatever and get ready in our own ways, you know. Personal ways. Prepare. One thing I don’t know. We were in Nissen huts until we could get a room in the sergeant’s mess which was usually overbooked and you’d get about eight or ten of us in a Nissen hut. And you know what they are don’t you? Nissen huts.
AS: Yes.
Anonymous: I’m sure you do. Yeah. And there was only one. Replacement crews would come in. You know, the NCOs of replacement crews would come in to make up the numbers in the crew. And one of the bravest acts I saw within the service culture was a Roman Catholic Canadian. It might have been a French Canadian who came in with some replacements and came about, I don’t know, late evening. We’d all started settling down. And he kept his light on and he actually knelt by his bed and did his prayers. You know. And it took courage of a great sort I think, you know. He was laying himself open to a lot of leg pulling and so on. Yes. But they didn’t make it back from their first trip. Yes. Sad little story but —
Other: In a group of young men it was a pretty brave act wasn’t it?
Anonymous: Well in that, at that company yeah I think it was so unusual. Nobody, nobody made anything of it you know. Mind you we were a good lot. A decent lot in our hut you know. Yeah. The best hut to be in. Yeah. Ok. Alright. So, there we go. So where are we now Alan?
AS: We were preparing ourselves for, or you were preparing yourselves for, for the op.
Anonymous: Oh yes. Well then you’d gather your stuff. Any lucky omens you’d got you stuck in your top pocket, you know and all that sort of thing. And you’d go down and go to the equipment room and pick up your parachute and, and any other gear you’d got in your locker that you needed to take. And then get carted out in the in the wagons, you know to the dispersals. And there you would wait until you got the word to get in. To load up, so of speak. And that one, that one, this one here — that would have been that stage there. Some of them have got their Mae Wests on haven’t they? Yeah that’s right. So we were ready to that stage, you see. Got their Mae Wests and their parachute harness on. Joe, the pilot was quite different because he had to have a parachute he sat on didn’t he? But the others had them clipped on there. But yeah, so you’d then get the word to get on, load up and then you’d get your signal to join the queue going around the perimeter track and you’d be four or five back from the, what was it? Black or white hut was it? Where the starter was. Anyway —
AS: Runway control van.
Anonymous: Yeah. Run control. That’s right. So then you’d, in due course roll around to the start you know, when you got the signals and do your run up. And get the engines going nicely and when you got the green off you went. And at Middleton St George the main runway ended with quite a valley across it. If that was the runway, that was the runway, there was a valley and on the other side of the valley there was a very nice farmhouse. And during the summer, it was double British summertime don’t forget, you could be quite late and the farmer and his wife and family would all come out and we used to think well that was decent of them to come and see us off, you know. What they were scared of was that we weren’t going to make it off the end [laughs] you know and they were the first in line. Yeah. That was the cynical view of it, you know, but, yes, so that was the sort of thing you know. Then the flight engineer and the pilot or the bomb aimer, sometimes the bomb aimer assisted. Sometimes the flight engineer assisted on following up with the — because you’ve got the throttle and you have the revs you know, haven’t you? You know, so the person assisting the pilot would be the follow up hand on the quadrant that increased the power. You know all about that. And hopefully two thirds of the way down you’d feel the big lift, you know. Yeah. Then you’d stooge around for an hour over the coast. And then when the stream was formed off you’d go, you know. Yeah. And —
AS: Could I just pause you there about, I’m interested in the, in the forming up process.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: Some stations had an assembly point. It sounds like you did too. Over the coast where you climbed to height.
Anonymous: Yeah. I think it was often when there was more than one station. One more airfield you know, involved. Maybe four or five squadrons, you know. And I suppose it was a precautionary thing as much as anything. As strategic. Because what’s the position? You want, say five hundred aircraft bombing a target you know. That’s a lot of aircraft milling around isn’t it? So you’ve got to have some discipline about altitude and longitude and all positions, I think. Yeah. So that was I think functionally necessitated. A functional necessity. Yeah. Yes. And the Window cover as well. You know. The bomb aimer used to hate that job. They were like, you know these Christmas wrappers. Christmas crackers. No. Chains. Paper chains you used to make. Strips of paper about like that but about that size those Windows were and they were silver paper. A little more. And he had a little chute by the side of his position and he had bundles of these all the way up. But he thought it was a very menial job for him to be doing. He wanted me to do it. No [laughs] He never told me I should be doing it but I didn’t volunteer. So yeah. It’s all these little things that make life what it is you know.
AS: So on the way you’d be at least, you know a pair of eyes in the cockpit.
Anonymous: Oh yes.
AS: And also was it also fuel management? Was that your main responsibilities?
Anonymous: That was. Yes. Yes. Yes. I’ll show you a book. A dear friend of mine who died three or four weeks ago gave me and it’s the, it’s a book on the Lancaster and it’s got marvellous pictures of the panels of the — it’s got, it’s got the original requirement of contractors to build this. To build the Lancaster. Yeah. I don’t know where he got it from but he was, he was an enthusiast. A Lancaster enthusiast. And he used to ask me questions. He was a trained, a trained mechanical engineer and he used to ask me questions about the Lancaster that I couldn’t answer [laughs] Typical, you know. Yeah. Because he really examined them right down. Yeah. But I’ll show you that book.
AS: That would be great. And you must have been a Jack of all trades because it’s hydraulics, its pneumatics, it’s electrics. It’s —
Anonymous: Oh yes. What staggered me, I don’t want you to mark it for neatness or anything but that was the sort of thing. This was the, this was the pre — this was the learning about the internal combustion engine to start with. Which was a lesson to me. And then you moved on to a specific aircraft. Your last six or eight weeks of training and you learned everything about that aircraft. And this one was the Halifax Mark 3 with a radial engine with a sleeve valved engine. You know. A very, a very unusual engine and so this is, there’s the engineer’s panel look. Open.
AS: Was that standardised with the Lanc or is that too much to expect?
Anonymous: Oh no, they were. I should think they were in competition really but, for the work but I imagine the language was the same but the, the construction would have been you know the positioning and so on.
AS: So this is what you were saying earlier that suddenly when you go to 419 and you’re on Lancs you have to relearn.
Anonymous: Yes. Who’s that?
Other 2: It’s only me.
Anonymous: Oh is there —
[recording paused]
Anonymous: When the bandit was behind us, ‘Corkscrew. Corkscrew. Corkscrew left. Corkscrew left,’ you know. Get out of the way. You know. And this was to reduce the area that the fighter had to fire at but you all had an observation point for fighters anyway and mine was the [pause] where’s that, is there a — where’s that picture gone? Yeah. The, no, the flight engineer’s position was on the, that’s it on the starboard side. Level with the pilot. But well just a little bit behind that. Just there. And there was a sliding window there and that was with a, with a blip, an observation blip. You know. Bubble in the —
AS: A blister. Yeah.
Anonymous: In the window. Yeah. And that was my, so that I could see. So the flight engineer could see below.
Other 2: A small one for you.
AS: Ok.
Other 2: A slightly larger for you.
AS: Is mum home?
[recording paused]
Anonymous: Yeah. Well, my responsibility was to observe through this what would you call it? Bubble window I suppose, which just stuck out a bit from the fuselage and to see if any aircraft, any bandits as we called them were coming up that way. But why I was really telling you that was, when the, when the chap hit us with that spray from the rear turret up through and through the front the window, I was looking at, out of, disappeared. It disappeared [laughs] It just went. Now, I don’t know if there was a break in his bullet supply or whether it was afterwards. We thought it was the pressure really building up inside the fuselage that blew it out. But, you know, I might have come home without my head. But —
Other: So were you guys strapped in? I mean if the window disappears surely there was quite a high chance that you might too.
Anonymous: Yeah. Well it wasn’t that big a window. It was, well I suppose about that.
Other: Ok.
Anonymous: Like that. And it had this like a pregnant window. And it was to enable you to see under the aircraft. ‘Cause one of their wicked weapons afterwards was the upward firing cannon wasn’t it? Yeah. So there we are. So we lost that and Joe lost part of his window and so did the bomb aimer right down there. So that was a good rake from back to front. He must have thought he’d nailed us, you know. But I mustn’t concentrate just on that one but that was it but it’s the best one. I can’t remember many details. I’ve got so many of them. But, sorry Alan. You said you’d got me to where?
AS: You, you were airborne. That’s one of your hairiest moments. Was there any discussion about going on or going back or just the pilot decides off you go?
Anonymous: I think the [pause] I’ll tell you, I mean I can tell you something from memory which I wouldn’t want put in any, anything subsequently.
[recording paused]
Anonymous: Yeah. I suppose my most vivid recollection of flak and its potential was the raid — I might find it here. It’s towards the end of our lot. Calais. Duisburg. We, it was on the 29th 27th of September. Duisburg. It was a lovely day you know. Lovely autumn day I suppose. And we had, what was the target? Bombing results not observed. Let’s have a — right. There was this thing called the random, not the random flak but the flak they just put on with the searchlight on us, on it, you know. Using the same setting as the searchlights. But then they had, they’d put up, they would put up a thing that was radar controlled. They would produce this cone of [pause] not cone. I don’t mean a cone. A cube. A cube of flak. Bursting flak, you know. If you can imagine that and that was, once they’d sorted out your route and what the target might be then they put this rectangle but in fact it had another dimension and it was a cube of flak. And you knew you’d got to go through that. And the most striking time that personally I experienced was on this Duisburg raid. Predicted flak. That’s what it was called in those days. In target area. Obviously once they’d identified that they’re own explosions of their shells from the ack-ack batteries would be concentrated in the area above the target. Where the bombs were likely to be dropped. Yeah. But [pause] so what did we say? Ten ten I don’t know what that is. Not — results not observed. Ten stroke ten.
AS: Perhaps that’s ten tenths cloud was it?
Anonymous: Oh, you’ve got it actually. Yeah. There must have been a layer of cloud as we were coming out. I don’t remember the clouds. But that, I’m sure that’s what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that was the cloud so it was sort of, it wasn’t an option. There were no options other than go through it, you know. Yeah. And so you’d go through and get rocked about a bit and I mean goodness knows where all their shrapnel went but, you know but it got some of them. I think it was operation number [pause] one of the early ones we were. We were in a stream. I forget where we were going now but anyway suffice it to say we hadn’t a a clue what was around us in the way of friendly aircraft, you know until we saw some flames on our starboard side. Starboard side. Port side. Anyway. Starboard side. And suddenly the flames became all-consuming and we saw it was a Halifax and he just fell away behind us and down. You know. We never knew what had happened to that. What happened to that. But then you get all this illumination. You lose your night vision yourself. So you can’t see anything. So you just hoped that the gunner’s guns aren’t going trail you now. But yeah I sometimes find it difficult to recapture one’s feelings. I mean what was 1944? Fifty six. Sixty one years ago isn’t it? Sixty one years ago. A long time isn’t it? To remember things.
AS: It’s entirely, entirely understandable.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: It is.
Anonymous: But I’m sure it’s all therapeutic. Yes.
Other: But I suspect if you knew you had another mission to do that you didn’t really indulge in too much thought about feelings did you? Because you knew you had to go back.
Anonymous: Well yes.
Other: So —
Anonymous: I think we used to put it on the back burner until we saw our name on the morning mist you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. But I [pause] it’s surprising really. You know, you hear stories about people not making it. Well, we’re all different, aren’t we? And there must have been thousands of reasons why people couldn’t cope with it. Yeah. Anyway, I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t ever remember being actually frightened. Now, that’s, that’s in no way bragging at all. It doesn’t say anything about me that’s worthy you know. But it’s, I don’t know, I seemed to have some assurance that, well I didn’t think about it really. I mean that doesn’t just say I didn’t feel apprehension because I did. It would be difficult not to wouldn’t it? Yeah. And the actual operation six incident, you know it was all over so quickly. You suddenly come out of it you know. But then you’ve got to get back. I was reading the, some accounts of the dam busting the other day. I think it was Guy Gibson’s. Was it Gibson done that one?
AS: Yes.
Anonymous: It was wasn’t it? And some of the reports of his, of the aircraft that took on that you know. And you can see, well it sort of, it reawakens your sensations or speculations as you’re approaching it. But you try to keep occupied I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. I can’t say more than that Adam. I can’t say.
[recording paused]
Anonymous: Period.
AS: Ok.
Anonymous: And the first thing, I mean we had some army instructions there about map reading. You know, he had a dozen of us and we sat down on the grass. And he gave us a reference and he said, ‘Where’s this reference?’ You know. And of course obviously to the army mind it was where we had our backsides then. You know. ‘We’re sitting on it sergeant,’ you know. That sort of thing. We had to do the usual coupling up with another person and being carted away from the camp about, I don’t know, twenty miles. Something like that. Making your own way back to the camp. So we had that one. We had the good fortune to find a lorry with a friendly driver I think [laughs] Anyway, that was that. And then we had to do the underground bit where you had this, oh about that size had been dug to a depth. I don’t know how deep. I can’t remember now. And then a long, a long tunnel and then coming up the other end. We had to do that. There were no lights there. You just followed the smell in front of you, you know and looked for daylight. So that was about the sum of it. At the time things like going away in the lorry become a challenge of another sort don’t they? You had to outdo your own people [laughs] and do all the things they told you you weren’t allowed. So that was the, it didn’t take I mean the whole Heavy Conversion Unit didn’t take long. I don’t know how long. Maybe a fortnight at the most and we went from there to Middleton then. Yeah. So air to air firing, practice bombing. Yeah. Yeah.
AS: And did you see any escape training films or training films generally prepared for you?
Anonymous: We used to have talks on survival. Yeah. About cooking in the field and so on, you know. But if you, if you get an [unclear] if you catch a hedgehog and cover it with mud and get a good fire going. Bake it. You break the cake off it at the end and all the, all the needles will come out of the hedgehog and you can eat it then. You know. That’s desperation for you.
Other: Lighting a fire might be a bit dodgy.
Anonymous: I don’t think it would catch on here. No. So, yeah that sort of thing we had. Yeah. Quite a number of talks on that. Yeah. Because these are only I mean the logbook is is sort of a structure. That’s all isn’t it? You can’t [pause] flying, bombing an installation. Yeah. There were quite some interesting ones when you read through. It does me good to have to read through this again sometimes. Things we got up to. I’ll tell you one thing we saw when we were on a daylight doing air to air firing or something like that. We were up in the, up in Yorkshire somewhere. Flying over Yorkshire. It was lovely. Another lovely day. Hello dear.
[recording paused]
Anonymous: I can’t remember the purpose for our flight but this brand new looking Halifax suddenly appeared in our, our rear and he overtook us. You know. Overflew us. And I was saying the weather was beautiful. Lovely. And he got ahead of us and we could only assume that he was going to show this damned Lancaster pilot and his crew that the Halifax was just as good. And he flew on. And he started messing about and he stalled. And from about, it couldn’t have been more than two or three thousand pounds he, not pounds, feet, he just fell straight to the moors. No survivors at all. He just stalled, you know. He just tipped it up on its wing tip. Brand new. It looked brand new. So we had no more engagement other than to just mayday the event and fly on. Couldn’t do anything about it. But that, that was a bit of a dampener in our day. Yeah. See these little incidents that just, they’re still there but they’ve just got to be dug out. Yeah. So, so what was the next development now?
AS: Could we talk a little about the emergency landing grounds? What you knew of them. Whether you used them at all.
Anonymous: We knew of them. Yeah. I mean we were diverted twice I think but not for those reasons but because the weather had deteriorated or they’d got it wrong and the raid was off so we were diverted to places like Little Snoring in Lincolnshire. And another one somewhere over on the east coast. But I knew about — what’s the one on the east coast? That’s the big one. That’s the three miler.
AS: There’s Manston. And then Woodbridge in East Anglia.
Anonymous: Oh Woodbridge was the one we were most interested in to know where it was and what it was capable of because [pause] yeah. But we had it clear documented but not used. Yeah. And at Manston was, I’d forgotten about that one. The Battle of Britain must have been useful. I mean it must have been useful at that time, yeah because that’s pretty well on the coast isn’t it? Manston. It is. Yeah.
AS: Yeah. Yeah. I think —
Anonymous: Is Woodbridge still open?
AS: No. I grew up near Woodbridge actually. But it became an American fighter base after the war.
Anonymous: Oh, did it? Yeah.
AS: And it’s now open for the army engineers.
Anonymous: Oh, is it?
AS: It’s called Rock Barracks. The runway’s still there.
Anonymous: Oh is it?
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: Yeah. Yeah. So I can’t, I can’t offer much comment on that other than we knew of them and were glad of them, you know. Glad of the resource being there but fortunately never having to use it. I suppose the only time was the second trip to Stettin that might have involved us going there. I can’t say now can I? Anyway, it was better to get back home. Yeah. I mean we did one, I can’t remember when where we were diverted. And then we did our next op to where we were diverted to. Yeah. You know. Little Snoring. You did that upside down [laughs]
[recording paused]
Anonymous: Look at that. “Cross country. Weather duff.” I don’t, I don’t know if we had to, we took three thousand and fifty minutes. I’m sure we did. “Very moonlight. Good bombing.” Oh dear. Sad isn’t it?
AS: But that was the task.
Anonymous: Middleton St George. “Very moonlit. Good bombing.” Oh dear. Six hours and fifteen minutes. What’s interesting, ops on daylight attack. Siracourt Oh that was a, what was the flying bomb site. Flying bomb sight. There was just a field. You just had a field to bomb and you know if you knocked that one out they moved to the next field. Yeah. Daylight attack on Cannes. Oh yeah. Just forward of Canadian. Oh, that’s the, that’s that one.
AS: Oh the one you got the aiming point photograph.
Anonymous: Yeah. Daylight attack. Was it this one? On Cannes. Just forward of Canadian beach head. “Light flak over target. Good result. Four thirty.” Well we would have. Yeah. They were quite rare you know those. So we were quite happy to get that. What else have we got here? Another one in. I didn’t realise we’d been to Ruhr as many times as this. “Great number of searchlights. Heavy flak. No fighters.” That was a big relief. Flying bomb. We did a number of these bomb installations here. Kiel. See this is supporting the army. And the heavy barrage. Flak over target. Kiel. You know these naval places. Hartshorn, engineer. Stuttgart. What was Stuttgart here? Crikey. Nine hours and ten. That was a long one. I’m grateful to you for making me read it. Read it again. You had your disappointments. Four hours and twenty minutes and we didn’t bomb because it was too cloudy. Yeah.
AS: That would still count as an op would it?
Anonymous: Well it was if you — yes it would. Yeah. The Canadians used the hundred and twenty point system. And they graded the targets as either three points or four points.
AS: I’ve not heard about that.
Anonymous: Yeah. Well that’s how we assumed it was. So if you did the daylight ones over the flying bomb sites would be three points, you know. And the Stettin would be four. I don’t think it ever went above four. And you had to accumulate a hundred and twenty. Or the pilot did if you were a crew. You know. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s what it was. If there was any doubt you used to write the number of points. Stettin. Very heavy flak. Yes. So there it is. I don’t like, I don’t ever, I don’t want to let this go out of my possession you know because I think the children wouldn’t forgive me for that.
AS: Indeed.
Anonymous: From what Gill was saying. Yeah. So, so what more can I answer? You’ve got a picture of him I expect?
AS: Yes. I’ve sat in his office.
Anonymous: Did you?
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: So did the chap — that’s the chap who writes, who wrote books on the Lancaster and well Bomber Command generally I think. He isn’t.
AS: [unclear]
Anonymous: Yes. That one. And he wrote to me and wanted some information so I sent him copies of pretty well, I sent him everything that I’d got and he photocopied it all and he’s written books. I think he must have died because he suddenly stopped writing to me. The other interesting contact I made as a result of John — Joe. Joe Hartshorn was my pilot, you know. He was a great friend. Apparently he’d met him somewhere. One of the air artists. And he got to be very friendly with him and the artist got in touch with me to see if I’d got any photographs. And yes, he gave me a copy. An original copy of one of his big bombing ones. You know. Yeah.
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: I think he’s now married a Polish girl and gone to Poland. So that was interesting.
[recording paused]
Anonymous: The attention that was paid to it until the monuments hit the headlines. You know. In Green Park. Yeah. And there’s been a sudden, the Bomber Command Association I think stirred it all up again. There must have been somebody who found the formula for getting it going. And I think that’s marvellous and I think it’s grown since then and they themselves have been largely responsible for the monument haven’t they? Which has been vandalised a few times I think but, yeah. So it was alright to complain, well not complain. I’m not complaining about what the government could do, or the Air Ministry could do in the early days of the war. They could only use what resources they had. What I’m saying is that the accounts we read of Bomber Command a lot in the war doesn’t always pay a lot of attention to them. It might say, you know eight Blenheims attacked Wilhelmshaven and, but but it doesn’t say a lot about them. But I mean you can’t. I was thinking of something else just now. I mean like the, I mean what about the clasp for Bomber Command on the — I’ve heard it called all sorts, you know. Like a Brownie knitting badge or something you know and that sort of thing. But does it really matter. What’s it for? I mean medals are. It’s alright isn’t it? I mean I think they’ve lost their impact actually because with all due respect to the people that have fought in Afghanistan and so on and Ireland and so on you see young soldiers of about twenty five to thirty and they’ve got about eight campaign medals, you know. But it depends what your take is on these things, you know. Yes. Yeah.
AS: So the, have you got your Bomber Command clasp?
Anonymous: Yes. I got it at Coningsby. The group captain there was a very delightful man and Gill, the one that, our daughter that you went to first she did all the paperwork for us there. Yeah. So I’ve been there and sorry what was the question?
AS: Had you got your clasp? Which you obviously have. Yeah.
Anonymous: Yeah. Well, he wrote and invited us up to come up for the lunch and hear the ladies choir sing and all that sort of thing, you know and I thought it was marvellous. So we, we went up, all five of us. Our two daughters and our son and Vera and me went up. And we had a couple of nights in Grantham. Yeah. And yeah. That was, that was very good. Yeah. And what else was I going to say about Coningsby? Yeah. He was, they were very good to us and I met two or three chaps from Middleton St George. Because it was a Canadian thing you know and there weren’t many of us there who had actually served in a Canadian squadron. So I didn’t notice [unclear] too much you because there were so many people there. I mean there were about eighty or ninety people who, who took the group captain’s offer of re-presenting them with their clasp if he wished them to. So I had already got mine and had it put on my — so I gave it to his person. His right hand. And then when the time came you know we were sitting in numbered rows and when my name was called I went and he pinned, he came around and pinned it on me, you know. That was a bit of service flannel really, you know. But it was rather nice. He was such a nice man the group captain. He made himself known all around the place to the seniors. Apparently the veterans have got quite a good reputation in service you know. Yeah. I mean we got our retired group captain in the village here. And another one who was a, he was a navigator I think so I think he must have come off navigating quite early to get into some other stream. Anyway, the other one was a, used to fly Canberras I think. He was a wingco. And yeah, you know, they always regard with respect anybody who was on Bomber Command. Because they’ve seen the other side haven’t they?
AS: Yeah.
Anonymous: They’ve seen. They’ve probably seen some pretty horrible sites. Crashing on to the home runway.
AS: I think that respect is universal and that underpins really some of what we’re doing at Lincoln really.
Anonymous: Yeah.
AS: Hopefully. Hopefully so.
Anonymous: Yes. How did you become?
AS: Ken, how did you actually become the flight engineer on Hartshorn’s crew?
Anonymous: Now, well it happened because I was the last member of a seven man crew. The six man crew having been formed earlier into one stage of operational proficiency but without a flight engineer. And so when it got to the Heavy Conversion Unit stage the six man crew would select a flight engineer. And whilst I was waiting at a bus stop in Ripon one evening an American brown uniformed flyer came up to me and invited me to be their flight engineer. Apparently he was an American who’d joined the RCAF originally but was now having to do a tour with the RCAF as a recompense presumably. Yeah. Something like that. Is that enough?
AS: That’s great. And did you instantly accept or did you think?
Anonymous: Oh, I said yes. Of course. I think it was getting a bit short because I think some of them already knew each other you know. But I couldn’t have made a better choice.
AS: Excellent.
Anonymous: Pure luck. Yeah.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with an Anonymous Interviewee (An00086)
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Adam Sutch
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-22
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
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AAn00086-150722
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Pending review
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01:32:47 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Description
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This interviewee was working at Chatham dockyard before he was accepted by the RAF as a mechanic. He then remustered as a flight engineer which fulfilled his hopes to be accepted as aircrew. While waiting for a place on the training course at St Athan he did maintenance work on Spitfires for 222 Squadron at RAF Hornchurch. At his Operational Training Unit the crew had the unfortunate of experience of crashing the command officer’s aircraft. The crew were posted to 419 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George. On one operation there was a fire in the engine which they managed to extinguish but while undertaking a manoeuvre on the flight home the engine again caught fire. Luckily they were again able to extinguish the fire. On another operation they were attacked by a night fighter and were raked from one end of the aircraft to the other but luckily were able to fly home despite the damage. However, the navigator was injured and was repatriated home. On a training flight over England a Halifax overtook them and apparently wanted to engage in a friendly way but tragically it stalled and the aircraft plunged to the earth with the loss of the lives of all on board.
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Julie Williams
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Germany
Great Britain
England--Durham (County)
Germany--Duisburg
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1944
222 Squadron
419 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
coping mechanism
crash
evacuation
faith
flight engineer
ground crew
ground personnel
Halifax
Halifax Mk 3
Lancaster
memorial
military service conditions
Operational Training Unit
RAF Hornchurch
RAF Middleton St George
RAF St Athan
searchlight
Spitfire
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1106/11565/ARossiterHC150913.2.mp3
fec6b127aef3d0344f0ef2e51fba0776
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Rossiter, Harry
Henry Charles Rossiter
H C Rossiter
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Harry Rossiter (1922 - 2019, 1332079 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 115 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-09-23
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Rossiter, HC
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AS: This is an interview for the International Bomber Command Centre at Lincoln carried out by Adam Sutch on the 23rd of September 2015 with Mr Harry Rossiter who carried out a full tour as a wireless operator on Bomber Command. Harry, thanks ever so much for agreeing to this interview. It’s fantastic to get the chance to talk to people with, with such memories. Could we start with a little about where you come from and your background before you ever joined the Air Force?
HR: Yes. I was born in Stratford, East London on the 11th of August 1922. And when I was ten years old, we moved out in to Essex. In a place called Laindon which you may, talking of the Battle of Britain I had a ringside view of that. Anyway, we’ll come to that presently. In 1938 I was a member of a District Scout Rover crew whose aim in those days was to do anything for public service and learn to lead the proper life. And part of it was I joined the air raid precautions. That was in April 1939. I took an anti-gas course. Learning all about the various types of poison gas that might be used against the British civilian population. Following on from that I became a cyclist messenger when the war actually broke out in 1939, at the age of seventeen. And it was very well organised on a district basis. The idea being that if the telephone service broke down there was an admirable means of district communication. I served in that until I joined the RAF. I cycled up to the Romford Recruiting Centre where I said I’d like to be a telegraphist in the Navy. ‘There are no vacancies at the moment but the RAF desperately need wireless operator air gunners. What about that?’ So I said, ‘Well yes. Alright. If they’re so —' [laughs] So I could do six words a minute Morse code from my time in the Boy Scouts which came in very useful. Ultimately on the 16th of January I attested at Uxbridge as 1332079 AC2 Henry Charles Rossiter. And they said to a gang of quite a lot of us, ‘We’re not ready to start aircrew training yet as far as you’re concerned. You can go home and wait six months and we’ll send for you on RAF pay. Or you can come in straight away.’ So, we all looked at one another. Well, we’d all said our goodbyes and whatnot so we’ll come in. And so, a group of us was sent to Northern Ireland on ground defence outside Lisburn, Lisburn Landing Ground it was called, which actually was a blessing in disguise because by the time we did start aircrew training we was marching like all seasoned airmen. And I noticed that particularly. One of my, a chap I became rather friendly he came straight out of the [unclear] university and he was seen, found crying because he was homesick. But by the time we left there he was just one of us and quite a decent chap. I do hope he survived the war. His uncle was an air vice marshal and he wrote to his uncle several times, ‘When are we going to start our training?’ In August ’41 we did. I went to Blackpool to do Morse training. And then we were sent to ground operating to get experience and so I went to 16 Group Headquarters in Gillingham which was an area combined headquarters. And I was there for six months doing ground operating. Which is very useful. I’ll tell you a funny little story about that. The sets we had were like packing trunks. About, you know, about a foot wide, deep, called the Tin 84. Thirteen valve set, excellent radio. And there was a repair gang that used to go around keeping them in order. One of them was a Sergeant Moran and he was known, always known in his absence as Spike Moran. So, one day I’m sitting there and it went dead. And instead of engaging brain before mouth I said, ‘Spike. My radio’s dead.’ And of course, he came and thumped his fist on the table, ‘How dare you call me Spike? Sergeant Moran to you’ [laughs] Anyway, profuse apologies and the set was fixed. In August ’42 [pause] wait a minute. I’m ahead of myself. I said I went to Morse training. I forgot to say in the August, in the Autumn of 1941 we went to Yatesbury in Wiltshire where Number 2 Signals School where I did my radio. And I played, I played trumpet in a brass band in a dance band and cornet in a brass band and my training suffered for a little bit. But anyway, I passed and as I say we were sent on ground operating. Then in August ’42 went to Madley in Herefordshire to do flying training. We flew in the Domini. That’s a twin-engine aircraft with five, five students, the pilot and instructor. And we took it in turns to sit on the radio and do an exercise. I wondered what that scruffy looking biscuit tin with the rope handle was doing in the corner but I managed to keep my food to myself. That’s alright [laughs] Anyway, following on from that we did some training in the Percival Proctor. A single engine aircraft. Just myself and the pilot. And I passed alright and then I was sent to gunnery school in Walney Island just off the coast at Barrow. Now these, the Gunnery School there used the Boulton Paul Defiant. Rather unusual for gunnery training but that’s all they were fit for really after their initial success and of course they were quite good as a night fighter. But the fighter, fighter command couldn’t use them anyway. Did my training on Defiants. This is August. No, it was later than that. My memory [pause] where were we? Oh yes. I’ve got it here. September 1942 posted to Air Gunner’s School, Walney Island. And of course, it was still summery weather and after we’d done our little detail the pilot hopped along the beach to Blackpool and we flew along the sand almost at zero feet. All the holidaymakers waving to us. And after that we finished our gunnery school, gunnery course. ‘We want four volunteers for Coastal Command,’ So, Bomber Command’s not too clever these days. Yes, all right. What we didn’t know of course was that it was to train on torpedo bombers. The Bristol Beaufort which wasn’t very clever [laughs]. To cut a long story short we went to Number 5 OTU where they trained people on Bristol Beauforts. A crew of four. A pilot, the observer who was a navigator/bomb aimer and two wireless operator/air gunners. And we were quite a happy team as regards the crew. And then we did our torpedo training and then they said, ‘Right. You’re going off to —' They didn’t tell us in words of course. It was a bit hush hush but what it transpired, what it came out to us we were to reinforce 217 Squadron in Ceylon. So we found ourselves at Portreath in Cornwall on the 12th of June ready to fly out. But the radio, there was trouble with the radio so delayed for twenty four hours. Anyway, we flew out and when we got to Karachi in India where all the aircraft entering India had to be serviced and made ready for tropical service, you know. Water tanks and all that sort of stuff. Special air filters and all that. They declared all Bristol Beauforts were now obsolete. Considering that we went to the Bristol Aeroplane Works and collected a brand new Beaufort and it had got twenty hours off the assembly line it seems an awful waste of taxpayer’s money. But there it was. We kicked our heels at the aircrew transit port in Poona. And all aircrew in those days were more or less during the war quite multi-national. A lot of Australians. And of course they kicked up a fuss. They were a bit uninhibited and who could blame them? They’d come all the way from Australia and then they’d only been messed about by the stupid poms as they called us. Anyway, be that as it may. In November we left Bombay on a troop ship and got home eventually on the 4th of January. And after leave we went to the Advanced Flying Unit in Millom to start re-training on Bomber Command. And after training we joined a squadron, 115 Squadron on the 15th of August 1944. And the rest, and the rest as you say is history. Not quite I suppose because we had and we were very lucky. We were attacked by night fighters several times but the skill and the sharp eyes of the gunners and the skill of the pilot we never received any damage at all. The only time we did the Germans were holding out at Le Havre. We went there four times. The first couple of times were rather, was a bit tragic in a way because a lot of Frenchmen got killed. They’d sent us to the wrong place. But the last one we did we were well and truly we found them and they put a cannon shell in our port outer. We stopped it but a Lancaster can fly well on three engines so we were in no danger but that’s how low we were. They said, ‘Do not bomb below nine hundred feet if the cloud base is at such.’ The bomb aimer, being a very enthusiastic Northern Irishman, I won’t use his exact words he just said, — concern [laughs] ‘The flak. Let’s bomb.’ Which we did and as I say we got a cannon shell in our port outer for our sins. The only time we ever got damaged. And I remember standing up in the astrodome looking, plugged into my radio, making that extra pair of eyes and in the night time it was, well it’s as though you’re watching a film in a way. I can’t quite explain it. Deep down you were, you were scared. Anybody who says they weren’t either have got no imagination or they’re telling lies. You couldn’t help it. You knew damn well what was going on. I mean you could see a Lanc, a Lancaster, it wasn’t quite as pitch black as you might think. What with the fires we were flying over and the searchlights you could see quite a distance and you could see a Lancaster suddenly a big, a great big red ball of fire. A big ball of fire as they say, there it goes, and the bomb aimer would say, ‘Chalk port.’ Which meant somebody had got it, you know. And that’s how it was. And then we did a lot of daylight raids and that was another danger. I’ve got the piece here to show you in here. This is, this is A Flight. The Flight I was in. Yes. Those two aircraft, those mentioned on there, they said they collided. But we had other ideas about that because we were bombing on radar. Very accurate. There was a great deal of accuracy with this stuff called GH. And it resulted in several aircraft trying to be in the same spot in the same, in the sky at the same time. And of course, what happened? They dropped their bombs on the one below. And though it just, it just says they collided. But three times standing looking up I looked straight up in the open bomb bay of a Lancaster direct above us. Obviously, they knew we were there otherwise I wouldn’t be sitting here but three times that happened. It was scary that was.
AS: And because both of these aeroplanes are down as collided —
HR: Yeah.
AS: The explosion took both aeroplanes out.
HR: Absolutely and that means Runnymede panel. That means there’s no known grave.
AS: Yeah.
HR: At Runnymede there’s a memorial to twenty seven thousand RAF and Allied aircrew who have no known grave.
AS: Yeah.
HR: So, some of them just, well they were all atomised I suppose you’d say. A full bomb load. Two aircraft colliding on their way to Dortmund. That’s where we were going. And the last occasion we were flying our last drop and there’s a bit of a tradition to be try and be the first back. So, the skipper tried a little experiment. I was looking out the astrodome and I could see the bursts of the anti-aircraft. They had got our height exactly and each burst was coming closer. The rear gunner said, ‘Skipper. They’re knocking on the back door.’ So he quickly dived back into the cover provided by Window. Metalised strips that confused the German radar. That was the other, that was the other case when we nearly, when we were in danger. But David, David Jenkins, the pilot, he was completely unflappable. If you look at that photograph, you’ll see. The next. He’s the tallest one. Now, that one, that’s Bill Ranson, a pharmaceutical chemist in civvy street. He was about ten years older than us. A hard headed Yorkshireman. And [laughs] they didn’t get on too well together but it never showed up because we functioned as a very good crew together. But he would sometimes say, ‘Jenks,’ he called him Jenks for short, ‘We’re one degree port of track.’ [unclear] Completely unflappable and he rightly got the DFC. If, if you look, if you look at that I can tell you. That’s the flight engineer. He was, he was a regular. He joined as a boy, a boy entrant, as a mechanic. That’s the mid-under gunner. Where are we? See that there? That’s a .5 sticking out the bottom. He sat astride a big hole with a .5 pointing up like that because the Germans used to go underneath.
AS: That is unusual. Does, does that mean then that you didn’t have H2S?
HR: That’s right. Yes.
AS: You had a .5 fitting.
HR: That’s right. Yeah. And next to him is Bill Ranson I told you about. That’s Bob. Bob Patton from Dungannon. The bomb aimer. And that’s myself. And that’s Bill Gorbon, the rear gunner and this chap is Reg Bijon from Vancouver. Royal Canadian Air Force. He’s the mid-upper. So we had eight in our crew instead of seven.
AS: So, many nations. From Canada to Yorkshire.
HR: Oh yes. Yeah. They had a lot of Australians, New Zealanders. One or two West Indians. Several Canadians. Bomber Command was really a multi-national force. One of our flight commanders was from the South African Air Force. And he achieved a little bit of notoriety. Well, that was the wrong way because he was doing a good thing. Towards the end of the war the Germans had taken all the food they could from Holland and they were starving. So 115 Squadron was selected to drop them some emergency food parcels. The Germans agreed not to fire on them and this chap, this South African, Captain Martin his name was, he led, he led the first drop of food to the starving Dutchmen. Later on, of course it was very well organised. And when the war ended the Americans joined in as well and dropped it. Ever so many food parcels for the starving Dutchmen. Anyway, so our tour came to an end of ops. We all went our different ways. I think I’m the only surviving member, they’re all they’re nearly all dead now, they are. I used to keep in, keep in quite contact with him. Bill Gorbon. He moved to Canada. Who else? Oh and of course, David. David Jenkins, the pilot. They’ve all, they’ve all shuffled off I’m afraid. I’m the last surviving member of the crew. Now, what are my thoughts about Bomber Command? Well at the time we were doing a job to shorten the war. Occasionally you thought, you know, those poor buggers down there are getting the rough end of it. But then we were told it was necessary because there was a lot of talk about area bombing. We were always given a target to bomb. Factories. Always factories. We did a lot of Ruhr bashing. And there’s only one, one occasion when we were aware of it. We did a raid on Stettin which is a long way away. We took off, we took off at dusk and landed at dawn. We were out all night on that one. Nine hours ten minutes. And it was a ship repair facility and the idea was to burn the workers out of their homes so that they couldn’t work on the ships. That was the idea. Now the only time we ever mentioned, ‘Your target tonight is the old city of Stettin which is occupied by a lot of people repairing ships. If your raid is successful, they won’t be able to any more.’ It wasn’t particularly aimed at the population. It was just aimed at their houses so they had to move out. Whether it worked or not I don’t know. We did several raids on Stettin. The raid I did was with another crew. That’s how I came to do thirty ops, because normally only the pilot, his first trip was with another crew so the rest of the crew only did twenty nine but I did another one with another crew and that’s how I did thirty. After my ops I was posted to an air sea rescue station at Beccles. They were flying the Warwick which was like a larger version of the Wellington and they could carry an airborne lifeboat. It dropped on three parachutes. And on the station strength there I was working in the ops room as what they called signals briefing. If a crew was going out they all took it in turns to put them up to date if there were any changes. I always used to remind them make sure you switch your sets on and check that they’re on. Because there was [laughs] an unfortunate incident that happened regarding a rather senior member. Anyway, that’s by the way. That was part of my job and while I was on the squadron. I was promoted flight sergeant. And in due course of time I was promoted warrant officer. Well, the station closed in August ’45. Just after VJ day. And 280 Squadron as they were were sent up to Thornaby on Tees. So, there we are. There were four of us, four warrant officers doing this job, signals briefing as it was called, and we were all out of a job. And the chap who took over the command of the station said, ‘Look you chaps I’ve got four jobs for you. Pick them out and please yourself.’ And we looked and one of them was station warrant officer. And that’s the one I picked. So, I suddenly found myself the senior NCO on the station. Only about a hundred and fifty men left because they were just packing up stores mainly. But I had a job to do and I did it. And one of them, before the signals staff were posted away, ‘Mr Rossiter would you like to take the wireless operators out in the perimeter track and give them a spot of drill?’ I thought yeah okay, ‘Righto sir,’ and I did. And they, you’re not supposed to move when you are giving orders. So, I’ve got a good voice and they’re marching along and a lorry went by just as I shouted out, ‘About turn.’ And you’ll never believe this. Half of them turned and the other half didn’t. So, they were [laughs] ‘About turn,’ and of course they both turned inwards and they collapsed with laughter, you see. This is perfectly true and it couldn’t, it couldn’t have been worked better if they’d prepared for it. It was so funny. But that was my experience of drilling. Anyway, the time came when the station completely closed and they sent me up to Thornaby to do the same job with the squadron. Briefing. Signals briefing. And I was discharged from there. Well there’s one little thing. My Lorraine was born in March ’45. She was just coming up to fourteen months old and my wife said, ‘Can you try and get a pushchair?’ Well there was a Halfords. Just across the river from Thornaby is Stockton on Tees and there was a Halfords there. And I bought a pushchair for the grand sum of two pounds ten shillings. Quite a sturdy thing and just before I left Thornaby the group captain said to me, ‘Well, I see you’ve had a year’s signals experience. You’d probably keep your rank if you stayed in the regular Air Force,’ because normally you drop a rank. He said, ‘You’ll probably keep yours but I can’t make any promises.’ I said ‘Well sir I’ve got a daughter — a wife and daughter, and I think my first loyalty is to them. So, thank you very much sir but I must decline the offer.’ So, the following day I’m walking out the station. I’ve got a kit bag, an attaché case and a pushchair. Transport. And I walked out and he came by and said ‘I see what you mean by domestic responsibilities!’ he said [laughs] Yeah. That ends my tale of RAF service and — any questions?
AS: Absolutely, Harry. That, that is the best, most joined up, most coherent presentation I have ever seen.
HR: Thank you.
AS: Ever heard. Thank you very much for that. I think we’ll pause and have a chat about some of the things that are in it if that’s alright.
[recording paused]
AS: There is of course more after RAF service, Harry.
HR: Yes. When I was discharged from the RAF in May 1946 I could strip a Browning gun in the dark and I could send Morse and receive Morse code at eighteen words a minute. I hadn’t got enough flying hours in to join civil flying so I went where I could earn money and it turned out to be the Ford Dagenham. Ford’s at Dagenham. Building gear boxes. The pay was good and their formula was very simple. You work and we’ll pay you accordingly and I got a decent wage but my health began to suffer. I did six years. There I was, half asleep, taking the gear box off the line, putting the back end on, putting it back on. Forty seconds that took and I could do it without thinking about it. Anyway, as I say my health began to suffer. I was always catching colds and my hands were perpetually permeated in grease. So wherever I did, you know. Anyway, I said to Edna, my wife, ‘I need to get out of there. I need an outdoor job.’ Right. You know, ‘You can see I’m not all that much.’ She said, ‘Why don’t you join the police force?’ Well, I was horrified. Me a copper? But it was the best thing I ever did.
AS: Yeah.
HR: Because I was outdoors. The middle photo there is when I was a village policeman. A constable. Village constable. And the one above is my wife standing at the door of the police house. A place called Horndon on the Hill in South Essex. And I had six very happy years there. Or we did. They used to come and speak to her as much as they spoke to me because if she didn’t know she knew where, some way to find out and she was very popular in the village. And she loved it and so did I. But in the fullness of time they decided to make me a sergeant and I was posted to Chelmsford and I was in the town there. And then I was sent on a rural section. I don’t know if you ever watched that programme “Heartbeat.” Well it’s similar to that but, mind you not all my men were on duty at the same time. I had to spread them out over like most of the day and night. But that was called a rural section at a place called Danbury which is an Essex beauty spot. I stayed there for six and a half years and then I bought my own, we bought our own house in Braintree. This particular job, a rural sergeant you had to live on the job. So they posted me back to Chelmsford town where I was a station sergeant for about six months. Then I asked to be transferred to Braintree where I was living. So, I finally finished up resigning, retiring from Essex police in August 1977 after twenty five years’ service. And then I went to the Lord Chancellor’s Department in charge of court security at Chelmsford Crown Court. And then I became a county court bailiff. And that was a most interesting job. As a county court bailiff you were entitled to, you were able to do, make legal arrangements. Suppose you owed this sum of money I would come to you and say, ‘Now, you owe this sum of money. How can you pay it? Have you got any way of paying it?’ Well we could manage so much a month. Well, I said, ‘Sign your goods over to me. So long as you do what you say you’re going to do you won’t see me again.’ And occasionally I would, if they were a bit overdue I’d call on them and collect the money. It didn’t matter to me. I wasn’t supposed to but the person got their money. That was the important thing. That’s why I considered that to be the most important. I did get a couple of pats on the back for it. Whenever you’re bending the rules a little. If they’re overdue you’re supposed to take their goods away. But then the plaintiff had got their money. You know. That was the most important thing. So I quite enjoyed doing that.
AS: That’s great. Look. I think we’ll pause again there.
HR: Okay. My arms hurt.
AS: Yeah.
[recording paused]
HR: We were all sent. The three of us, and my friends. The four of us who volunteered were sent to Turnberry. It’s now a golf course but it was an RAF station. On the top of the hill overlooking the golf course as it is now is a large hotel. That was an aircrew hospital. Anyway, I say there was a bunch of us and then there’s this big room. I seem to remember there was some booze knocking about. I’m not quite sure about that. I know it was all very friendly. And I started talking to a chap. He was a Londoner. A chap called Ted Hall. He came from Ely and he was a furniture designer. A bit older than me. So he came to me and he said, ‘I’ve found a nice pilot,’ he says, ‘I think he’s very intelligent. Come with me,’ So we went, and Bill Thompson his name was and he came from Largs in Ayrshire. Quite a well to do family. His uncle was Lord Mackay. He used to run British Caledonian but I didn’t know that at the time. A very likeable chap. Same age as me. A civil engineer. And then we looked around. Of course, we had what they called an observer. An observer being the one who had both trades of navigator/bomb aimer and he wore the O brevet. And we found this chap was sitting in the corner looking rather disconsolate so we went and spoke to him. He was an older man. [unclear] Monroe. He came from Wimbledon. And so he came and we, the four of us got on very well together. We were together for a year — 1943. And we never never ever had a crossed word between us at all.
AS: And you were all first tour were you?
HR: No. This was, we never did do a tour. This was Coastal.
AS: Yeah.
HR: This was Coastal Command training.
AS: Yeah. So, when you crewed up none of you had ever been on operations?
HR: Oh no. That’s quite right. Yeah.
AS: Okay.
HR: Yeah.
AS: Can you think back to, to what the OTU training involved?
HR: Yes. It’s a Coastal Command. As I say they were torpedo bombers. But they were also used for general reconnaissance. So did a lot of navigational exercises over the Irish Sea and to the northwest of Scotland. What’s the furthest outpost? I forget the name of it now. Out in the Atlantic. We had to fly there by dead reckoning and there was no problem with that. Spot on time. ETA. There it was. You probably know. I just can’t remember the name of it now. It’s a rocky outpost.
AS: Rockall?
HR: This is on the northwest of Scotland. I don’t think that was the name. No. I’m not sure. You may be right. I can’t remember.
AS: I’m rarely right, Harry. We can check that out on the map.
HR: I mean that’s, that’s how, sorry, he was good. Course we all clapped hands [laughs].
AS: Were you involved in the navigation with him? Were you taking bearings, QDMs and all the rest of it?
HR: Well, this involved mainly him. But he did ask me twice for a QDM. You know what that is of course. But mostly his mathematics were spot on which is one of the reasons why I couldn’t. I had to be a wireless operator because my, I left school when I was fourteen. A thorough training. A very good training. The 3Rs.
AS: Yeah.
HR: Excellent. Laindon High Road School. Excellent school. But, oh yeah, one thing I forgot to mention. In November, when I was on the squadron the signals leader, he said, ‘Right son, I’m putting you up for a commission’. Alright but when it came to it of course the flight commander, a Squadron Leader [Gorrey?] I remember him very well. He put a piece of paper and on it was A+B=C. He said, ‘Do you know what that means?’ And it just blinded us. And I said, ‘I’m sorry, sir. I haven’t a clue.’ I mean the most simple. I know all about it now but I didn’t know then. So he said, ‘What sort of education did you have?’ I said, ‘I left school when I was fourteen, sir.’ ‘Oh I see. Well, I’ll pass you on to the squadron commander. See what he thinks.’ Wing Commander Shaw. I remember the name. He said, ‘Well, you’ve obviously got some quality otherwise you wouldn’t have been recommended but I’m afraid your lack of education shows.’ I said, ‘Yes sir. It’s no more than I expected.’ He said, ‘Try again in six months’ time. In the meantime, find a good officer and see what your shortcomings were.’ That’s rather funny. It’s all written down there. And the Irishman, is that him, yes Bob Patton from Dungannon. He got himself blind drunk. He was missing for twenty four hours. They found him in the toilet, dead drunk.
AS: The gents, I hope.
HR: Was he a good officer? [laughs] Flying officer, in fact he was. Anyway, there we are. But the war, the war in Europe finished in six months because I’d finished my ops in December ’44.
AS: On, on the Coastal you told us there were two wireless operator/air gunners. Did you switch duties?
HR: That’s right. Well we had a gun turret in the Beaufort. Two gun turrets. So, one worked it and then another day he’d say, ‘Harry, would you like a turn and I’ll go and sit in the turret?’ That’s how we worked. Very friendly. As I say this lot we performed quite well. We all seemed to do our job. There was no arguments in the air but when we finished our tour the group captain said, ‘We’d like you to go on Pathfinders. You’re a good crew. But you’ve got to go together. So he said, ‘I’m not flying with him anymore.’ So that was that. So there, as I say we had so we had a reputation as a good crew. Otherwise they wouldn’t have said that.
AS: So when, when you’d come back from India you’d been in the Air Force quite a long time.
HR: Two years. Yeah.
AS: Were you really keen to get on to operations or —
HR: Well, yeah we were really. I mean, we were completely in the dark as to what we were going to do. Didn’t know we were going on to Bomber Command. We guessed we might be. The possibility. But we didn’t know until all of us got our embarkation leave. We thought to RAF Number 2 Advanced Flying Unit. And that’s what it was about.
AS: And so you, in a sense you’re going through the training mill again.
HR: Yeah.
AS: For a very different job. What —
HR: So 1943 was a complete waste of time because that’s when we did all our Coastal Command training.
AS: Yeah.
HR: A complete waste of time. And then when you shudder, it makes you think, taxpayer’s money. I mean. There was about twenty crews. Not as many as that. About fifteen. About fifteen. I think it must have been at least fifteen crews flew out from Portreath to India. Diverted to join 217 Squadron in Ceylon. As I say that was as far as we got. Karachi and Poona. Poona was just a, just a rest camp really. It didn’t, the CO was a Wing Commander Beck and I really felt sorry for him because he did his best. Him and his adjutant was a Squadron Leader Findlay Fleming. They did their best to find us things for us to do but the Aussies didn’t appreciate it very much. One day, oh and incidentally we were all issued with 38 Smith and Wessons when we left to go to India. Why, I don’t know. We never knew. Anyway, afternoon in Poona all taking a nap and these Indians, there’s a road ran through the camp, these Indians with their monkeys performing tricks. ‘See the monkey dance sahib?’ You know. And suddenly a bang bang bang. Looked out and there’s these chaps running for their lives. And this Aussie is sort of clinging around this post of his, blazing away, over their heads of course. ‘You, waking us up. Waking us up you silly bastards,’ et cetera et cetera. So, there was a hell of a stink of course. They called in all our revolvers. We didn’t want them anyway. But there you are. That’s typical of Aussies. There was another occasion too when we were on OTU. A couple of chaps came in late and they were arguing the toss so one of these Aussies, ‘Put that light out.’ ‘Get knotted.’ ‘I said put that light out.’ Old gunner et cetera. So he pulls out an air pistol and shoots the bulb out.
AS: Yeah. On, on this year, or more than a year when you were training and then on the Coastal and out to India did your music, did you take that through or did, as well?
HR: Yes. At various because I used to do a lot of trumpet playing. Because what happened, when I was twelve I was in the Boy Scouts Brass Band and there was [unclear] at a place called the Manor Mission which is the only part of old Laindon left. Everything else has gone. Anyway, and they had an adult brass band and one of them volunteered to be the band master. So he said to my uncle who had played tenor horn in the band, ‘If we put Harry on tenor horn you’ll see he practises won’t you?’ He said, ‘Of course I will.’ And he did. That was quite fun actually. That’s when I started playing. But we didn’t use the expression cool in those days but it was cool really for a young man to play cornet. You were playing a tune you know. You were somebody. So I did, I graduated to cornet. I tried euphonia first for a while which I quite liked but I had to get on cornets which I did. And that graduated to trumpet playing. And I played in a village dance band called the Rio 7. There were never seven as far as I knew. Edna said they were crap. Those were almost exactly her exact words. But we were the only band in the village so we got plenty of work playing the trumpet. When I went into the RAF, if there was any opportunity, I did some trumpet playing. When I was on my signals course, as I say I played. There was a Training Wing dance band. I played second trumpet. A big band it was too. Mostly Glenn Miller stuff. And other places where we moved to if they had a dance band I’d go and sit along, sit down with them, you know. So I did a fair amount. And 1945 I was in the Beccles place after my tour. Of course, the end of the, the end of the war in Europe there was a lot of parties and that little band we had, we were in great demand and my nose started bleeding. When I saw the MO, he said, ‘Well you’d better pack up the trumpet for a while. It’s a good job it did bleed,’ he said, ‘It may have given you a stroke. High blood pressure like that. So leave it. Leave it off for about six months.’ So I was thinking, alright. I’ve got to play something. I know. I’ll learn to play the piano. So I go in to Beccles and find this lady, very well known in show business called Madame Shapiro. And she gave me the piano lessons and she said, ‘What you’ve got to do is to play scales and play scales every day for an hour at least. You’ve just got to do it and the sooner you can play scales without looking at the keys you’re ready to start playing.’ Well, I hadn’t got the patience. In any case If I started doing that in the sergeants mess I’d probably have something thrown at me. So, I never really did get, did master the piano. But it went off and I was back playing. In 1963 it was, in the police force, the Essex Police Band was formed and Edna said, ‘Well I know you like playing. You go along and play if you want to but you might regret it.’ Very prophetic. I’ll tell you about it in a minute. So I went along and played in the Essex Police Band and I was their principal cornet for a while till somebody along, came along a bit better than me. Then I was the deputy principal cornet. There we are there. That’s it. You can see me sitting. That one. That’s the Essex Police Band 1972. And I had some quite happy times. And what she meant by, ‘You might regret it,’ I was in charge of a small section in North Chelmsford called Melbourne Park and myself and five constables. And the chief constable came along to see me one day, Sir John Nightingale. ‘Sergeant Rossiter, why haven’t you passed your promotion exam?’ I said, ‘I suppose I haven’t studied hard enough.’ He said, ‘Well bloody well get on with it. I need inspectors.’ Well that was most unusual. I’m not kidding you. You don’t get chief constables telling that to sergeants every day. He was inviting me to be, he said ‘I want you to be an inspector but pass your exam.’ I never did. Too much playing you see. That’s what Edna meant. She said afterwards, ‘Well, perhaps you might have been a bit worrying. You’re happy being a sergeant, aren’t you?’ I said, ‘Yeah. It don’t worry me.’
AS: Fantastic. When, when you were back and it’s after D-day by this time you were posted to, to the heavies to crew up all over again. What was that process like? Much the same or —
HR: Much the same. Well it was slightly different. This was at Silverstone. A big old bomber OTU there. We went there in early April and, well actually what happened was in between OTU [pause] no, the AFU at Millom and the OTU we had, we had ten days leave so I got married. In March 1944 we got married. And there was another humorous situation because the vicar, we knew him quite well, I said I’ve only, ‘I’ve only got a few days,’ you know. So he said, ‘Oh that’s alright. I can get you a special licence. Don’t worry about the banns. You haven’t got time for the banns.’ So he got me a special licence. And we were married in this church, ‘And I now pronounce you man and wife’ and he said it, so funny, he said, ‘Oh go on Harry. Kiss her’ [laughs] as if needed prompting. Yeah. And so, there you are. And I, Edna said, ‘Well ask them for an extension of leave then. They can only say no. They can’t shoot you.’ So I did. And of course it came back, ‘No. Come back.’ So, when I started OTU which was at Silverstone, it was a big crowd, about two hundred of us sitting in this room. And the instructor said, ‘One of your number recently took himself a wife. He liked it so much he wanted an extension.’ Ha ha. And my friend said, ‘I bet that was you.’ It was [laughs] Anyway, he left and said, ‘Get yourselves crewed up.’ Well we were wandering about. Now who did I meet first? I can’t remember really. Yeah. Who was it who I met first? No. It wasn’t Bill. I think it was Jenks actually. Yes. I went up. I saw this tall chap with pilot’s wings and he stood here, I said, ‘You looking for a wireless operator?’ ‘Yeah. You’ll do,’ he said. ‘That’s alright. Yeah.’ And then we were joined, who was on next? [pause] One of the gunners. Which one was that? The French Canadian. Reg Bijon. He was the next one. And then, I don’t know how we got on to Bill. Bill Ranson, the navigator. I suppose he was looking sorry for himself. I don’t know. And the flight engineer. We did all our Bomber Command training on Wellington’s which strictly speaking didn’t need a flight engineer. But nevertheless he was part of the crew. And then when we learned to fly four-engined stuff, Stirlings it was called a Conversion Unit. A Heavy Conversion Unit. Then we acquired an extra gunner which was Bill Gorbon. A farmer from Northwich in Cheshire.
AS: Wonderful. Now, you, you’d come off twin-engined coastal. Virtually early, early war so you were doing wireless and DF. Did you have to learn a lot more to cope with the equipment in the heavies or was it much the same equipment?
HR: It wasn’t, it wasn’t a question of it. Just that the, there were, that’s why we had to go to this. Because of the Bomber Command way of doing things. It wasn’t very complicated and already got the basics thoroughly ground in after the service with Coastal Command. As they, as they say, take it on board. It’s quite easy really. Radio silence was strict but there was one. This trip I did with the other crew was different. It was a wind finding aircraft. It’s all in those notes. As you know when you drop a bomb it’s liable to be knocked off course by the wind. So they had to feed, to steer, you steered to allow for it. And that was called wind finding. So what they did, this particular crew every half an hour the navigator and the bomb aimer between them estimated the speed, the speed and direction and I was handed a slip of paper and told to send it back to base. In the Morse code, you know. It was all Morse code. I did it every half an hour. And when Bomber Command, because we weren’t the only aircraft doing it and they worked out what, decided what was a good mean average wind speed and direction and half an hour before zero hour on the raid it would be transmitted to the whole force to be used.
AS: So everybody set the same wind vector on to the bomb sights.
HR: Yeah. Yeah. And it did help but as you know in 1944 things were starting to get better because we had the Gee. The Gee. The Gee box as it was called. A very good thing. Oh that was another funny story. At Beccles this 280 Squadron, occasionally one of us would be sent up with one of the crews to see how they got on and we had a load of ATC boys. About four of them anyway. And the Warwick was quite roomy. A table about this big with, and, so one of them said, ‘Can you show us how you work out.’ So I said, ‘Yes. You —’ I had a copy of the receiver in the thingy, ‘See those bits,’ you know they were lined up, you know. And took the readings off them and put them on to the chart. And we were over the North Sea at the time but according to my calculations we were just off the coast of Cornwall. I thought my face was red. I was using the wrong chart, that’s why [laughs] So we got the right chart and managed to save my face.
AS: Because there, there was more than one Gee chain wasn’t there?
HR: Yeah.
AS: Yeah. Could we talk a little, a little bit about preparations for, for a mission briefing and what not?
HR: Yes. Well —
AS: What was your, you know, day for a raid or a night for a raid? What would be a typical?
HR: Suppose it was a night raid. The, over the tannoy would come, ‘There will be a lecture for navigators at 12 o’clock,’ at so and so. And that was the beginning. That meant that we were going on ops that night and that’s how they announced it. So all the navigators got together and of course they were given all the details and usually joined by the pilots. They found it a good idea to do so. They were allowed to do so if they wanted. Most of them did. And then posted up in the sergeant’s mess and the officer’s mess would be the battle order. A big A4 sheet of paper detailing all the crews that were on it. And that’s when you knew. And then you went on to the main briefing which would be about two hours before or about an hour before take-off time due. Then first of all you’d would get the intelligence officer saying what the raid was all about. Then you get the Met. And then you get the squadron commander. Then you go into details and they used to talk about all, about all up weight, the amount of petrol you were carrying and all that sort of stuff. Don’t quite know what good that was but there you are. And then as I say the squadron commander would go into the details and what to avoid. What’s this and what’s that and don’t forget your banking. We didn’t have, didn’t have a mid-under gunner at first. We used to do banking searches like that to make sure nobody was hiding underneath. And there was, oh yes that was another funny thing which is in there. Before we got the mid-under gunner Paddy the bomb aimer said, ‘I’m going to drop a flare.’ You know, the bombs go. ‘Would you mind walking down and see if it goes?’ Well, we were at oxygen height so I clipped an oxygen bottle to my parachute harness and down I went. Down the fuselage and just as I got to the chute I saw it go down. Zunk. And then suddenly I was thrown off balance. We were being attacked. And I’m in pitch darkness I hadn’t a clue. There’s an intercom socket but I couldn’t find it. So about five seconds there was a bit of panic because I didn’t know what was going on. Whether we were going down in a dive or whatever. But I couldn’t stand up and the reasons why it was the bottle had become detached from my parachute harness and I was treading on it. And that was why I couldn’t stand up. I did. Plugged in and it was okay. I said it went, you know and that was all he wanted to know. But yeah, it’s one of the, one of the only times really when I really was what you might call blind panic because you don’t know what’s going on.
AS: So that was a fighter attack.
HR: Yeah.
AS: At this stage of the war what, were the fighters your chief concerns or the flak or collision or or what?
HR: Fighters really. Yeah. No doubt about it. But they had, they had choice, you know. They were spoiled for choice. And the infamous raid in March on Nuremberg. You may have, if you ever, if anybody talks about the Nuremberg raid they talk about the one in March which was a complete and utter fiasco. We lost a hundred bombers that night. A hundred. Ninety six were shot down, mainly by night fighters and another ten were written off when they got home and crashed. A hundred and six I think is the official figure. One of them is mentioned in there as being number ninety six or something. Shot down.
AS: Picking up on that, and not so much the raid but the loss of aeroplanes, what, how big a factor was, was the weather? Did you ever go out and the weather changed and you end up with this —
HR: Yes.
AS: Big mess over England.
HR: The very last one. December is when Glen Miller was killed. And I’ll tell you what happened. Well it’s been generally accepted what happened. December the 15th we were sent out to bomb a place called [Siegen?] and there was a lot of, the weather was putrid and all civilian flying was cancelled, you know. There was no question of it. Because what happened of course as we climbed up to fifteen to sixteen feet icing took over and one Lancaster, when one Lancaster crashed because of it they called us all back. Well we never landed with a full bomb load. We used to jettison our bombs in The Wash but others jettisoned them in the Channel. What the popular theory is now is that Glen Miller’s plane was brought down either by a direct hit from a bomb but more likely from a blast from a bomb. Because there was a rear gunner reported seeing a light aircraft plunge into the water. It must have been Glen Miller’s plane because there was no other plane out.
AS: Yeah.
HR: That’s the only time. There was another occasion I believe. In that box file is my flying logbook.
AS: Shall we pause and get that?
[recording paused]
AS: Okay. Harry, so we’re, we’re back again with the tape running. We’ve just been talking about an example where the smooth bomber stream perhaps didn’t quite happen on the [ Siegen ] raid. Could you tell me what happened then?
HR: Yes. There was very very thick cloud. A lot of Cumulonim about which was a rather dangerous cloud. So we were dodging that but when we finally broke cloud about fifteen thousand feet the bomber force — the Lancasters and Halifaxes were all over the sky. So whoever was leading the raid decided to do a big loop. A circuit I suppose you’d call it. And as he did it so we all formed up and so we headed for the target in some sort of order.
AS: So this was a force of hundreds of bomber aeroplanes.
HR: About two hundred and forty.
AS: Doing a merry go around in the sky.
HR: That’s right. Yeah.
AS: And not, not troubled by flak?
HR: No. We weren’t actually [pause] of course I couldn’t tell you where we were but we were certainly over the continent somewhere. Because of the thick clouds as I say when we finally, obviously trying to avoid collision in the cloud but when it finally did break through as I say we were scattered far and wide. And I was standing up looking out the astrodome. I saw it all happen.
AS: And this, this actually was your second consecutive trip to [Siegen ] and the first one.
HR: We didn’t.
AS: In your logbook says —
HR: Didn’t get there. Recalled.
AS: Duty not carried out. What was that about? Was that the weather?
HR: The weather, yes. Icing. Icing.
AS: Okay.
HR: After icing had brought down one Lancaster they called the rest of us back. And that was the day when Glen Miller was killed. And it’s a popular belief now that he was killed by jettisoned bombs in the Channel because he couldn’t land with a full bomb load. And our squadron jettisoned in the Wash so we weren’t responsible. But some squadrons jettisoned in the Channel. And we think Glen Miller was brought down by some of the bombs.
AS: Okay. Did you have, as a squadron and as a, as a group particular forming up procedures to join the stream and places to go?
HR: No. We were just told to fly in a sensible, sensible gaggle formation and just be careful to avoid collisions.
AS: And this was on daylights presumably.
HR: On daylight raids. Yes.
AS: Was it any different at night?
HR: Well you couldn’t see. Although, as I say visibility wasn’t as bad as you might think at night time but you couldn’t sort of, you couldn’t see everywhere and in any case another Lancaster, perhaps it was a half a mile away or so it would just be lost in the darkness. But we did see others sometimes and we always used to try and keep clear. But I don’t, I don’t remember any cases of collisions at night, strangely enough when you might have thought it would have happened.
AS: How about coming home? Did you, well your navigator would do it but did you come home on Gee to particular points?
HR: Well, we did, you had this course of course to come home on and we had Gee to help navigation. What we had to be careful of when joining the circuit to land was intruders. At Witchford they used to have, and all the airfields had a red, red light flashing out their code so you could know where you were. And if they were switched off that was to warn you that German fighters were about. Of course, you were coming in to land totally relaxed and they would nip in and shoot. In this book there’s a record of intruders at Witchford where, where I think three Lancs were lost one night through intruders.
AS: Wow. Can you remember the procedure then? What if the light goes out? What happened then? Do you scatter or go to a beacon or — ?
HR: No. You just continue flying but you’re very much on the alert. Until they just gave up and went off. It was all clear and the light would come on again and we’d land.
AS: When you landed and a big sigh of relief, switched everything off there’s the debriefing. Could you tell me some details of how debriefings used to go?
HR: Well, as soon as we touched down that was a moment for relaxing and a great sigh of relief. Whoopie we’re home again. Thank the good lord. Yeah. That was, that was the feeling and a noticeable lack of tension. Because when you were taking off you’re flying into the unknown. You don’t know what’s going to happen. Whether you would be coming back or not. But when you had come back and decided all was safe then we used to get out and say, ‘Jenks, well done,’ you know. And he’d say, ‘Well, never mind. I couldn’t have done it without you lot.’ It was a great relief. And then we used to go to be picked up by the crew bus and given cups of coffee with, laced with rum which used to, strangely enough helped us to sleep. And everybody got asked whether they had anything to say, you know. And we’d say, ‘I saw ——' And one would say, ‘Yeah. I saw a chop,’ he’d say. ‘Whereabout were you?’ ‘We were just passing over the middle of the target and saw a chop out to starboard.’ There was a little bit of, I don’t know what you’d call it but it’s put about that the Germans put up what they called Scarecrows. Things that explode to make you think it’s one of your bombers being, being hit by night fighters or flak. Well, the Germans denied any knowledge of that. They said, ‘No, we didn’t.’ So it did seem as a little bit of thing to try and keep the morale up. It wasn’t, well they weren’t, that was the Germans trying to scare us. The Germans said no that wasn’t the case.
AS: So potentially at least the Scarecrow story was put out by your own.
HR: Yeah.
AS: High Command.
HR: Yeah.
AS: Yeah. And you’re talking about, about tension and the release of tension. When, one of the things that what one certainly reads about that for trips, long trips sometimes Benzedrine or wakey- wakey pills were available. Did you as a crew or an individual have any experience of, of this?
HR: Well, you were, you were given the choice. You were given the Benzedrine tablets. I usually took one. We weren’t sillily taking them. Just the one. There was one raid when we were coming back and I found myself, see I sat in a seat with the bench in front of me with the Morse key on my right and the set in front of me and I was down under the, my head was banging underneath the table and I was sound asleep and I came, obviously because what happened when they wore off you didn’t exactly go faint but you’d used up all your energy as it were.
AS: Okay. What — so they were freely available. Were they, well they weren’t on the table like sweets but did the medical officer hand them out or —?
HR: You know I can’t remember.
AS: I’m not surprised.
HR: Let me think. When we were, when we were being briefed we were given flight rations. Glucose sweets, chewing gum. I don’t remember ever getting chocolate. I know we used to get these boiled sweets and chewing gum. Chewing gum was very useful because as you got higher so your eardrums tend to stick and if you’re chewing gum they didn’t. That was the reason for these you know, it’s [pause] And I just can’t remember about the wakey-wakey pills as we used to call them.
AS: It was certainly available to you and I mean looking –
HR: Oh yes.
AS: At your logbook here. Stettin is a nine hour flight.
HR: That’s when, as I say we took off at dusk and landed in the dawn. Out all night.
AS: So would you take them, as you say on take-off but regularly or just when the longer flights or a mix really.
HR: I have to admit I can’t remember.
AS: It’s not, it’s not surprising.
HR: You know.
AS: Yeah.
HR: I remember taking the odd one but I certainly never took them in the daytime. I know that. Never took them in the daytime. Only for night time.
AS: Okay.
HR: Because obviously in nature you sleep at night so you’re in opposition to your body’s usual clock so you had to take something to compensate to keep you awake. That’s what it, really the reason for them.
AS: There’s a lot of, a lot of notes on flak in your, in your logbook.
HR: Yeah.
AS: An ever present danger.
HR: Oh yes. The German ack-ack was extremely accurate. It was very good. That’s why we dropped these metalised strips which completely confused their radar screens. But if you were out by yourself you were dead. Absolutely a sitting duck as far as they were concerned.
AS: What was your crew or your skipper’s attitude to weaving to try and avoid the flak? Did he do it? Or did his navigator persuade him not to?
HR: No. As I say we didn’t seem to have that problem because of the Window. I can never, can never remember — I mean as I say that the last occasion I mentioned in daylight when it did. It certainly changed height. Got back in the Window stream as it were. But apart from that I don’t think so. We were more, we used to weave of course if they were, if we were being chased by a fighter which apparently obviously worked because as I say I wouldn’t be sitting here otherwise. I’ll tell you a little thing that I only thought about it in recent years. At being briefed, it might be about twenty odd crews sitting in the big room all around a big table. You know. Seven, seven husky young men and a few hours later their remains are being shovelled into one coffin.
AS: Did you — ?
HR: Didn’t know about it at the time of course. It’s only, it’s only come out recently. It’s all, it’s in here. It’s all in there.
AS: Yeah. Its perhaps a very insensitive question but did you, when you were looking around the room of twenty crews did you ever get the feeling well he’s not going to come back.
HR: Yes. It did. We wondered. You know, the chap sitting there. He might be brash and bragging about his feminine conquests or something like that, you know. Yeah. I wondered, I wondered if he’d be doing the same tomorrow night. You know. Or tomorrow morning. Did occasionally. Not, not very often. You’re too preoccupied with your own thoughts, I think. Am I going to make it somehow?
AS: Yeah. On, on those own thoughts. Although you were very close obviously as a crew did you keep them very much to yourself? Did you ever discuss in the crew these issues of survival or not?
HR: No. It was never, it was never discussed amongst ourselves. No. I suppose, well I can’t explain it really. When you’re on the ground and after raids or before it you would, you would talk about other things. Sometimes I’d talk about music because there was this Welsh flight engineer. He had a good voice. He used to like singing. And talk about Welsh music sometimes. Things like that you know. Anything but, shall we say. Yeah. I often chatted. And sometimes when you were up, when you were flying the skipper would say, ‘Cease idle chatter.’ Yeah. It didn’t happen very often though in the air.
AS: So, so is it fair to say that, as young men you, you had to fight this personal battle, internal battle as well as being on top of your training and doing your job?
HR: I can’t say I’m aware of that. I used to think of, obviously at the time when I was on ops I was married and Edna was expecting actually. You know. I’d think about her and what she would say if she got the telegram. If I didn’t come back, you know. But not a great deal. My memory doesn’t serve me all that well. I don’t remember ever being in very, in much intensive conversation. We used to go to the squadron pub called the Lion of Lamb which is now just called the village, The Village Inn it’s called in Witchford it’s called. You went in there and all sorts of silly things, silly games you know. Singing around the piano perhaps.
AS: Yeah. Your, your ops were, were quite close together. There’s not a lot of stand down time was there? At this, at this period of the war.
HR: Yeah. There was some of course. But as you can see in red and green. Any in blue would be non-operational. Sometimes we were called upon to, if an aircraft went in for a major inspection. It needed an air test and the very last trip we did together was an air test. That was in January ’45. I think you’ll see it there. Air test.
AS: Yeah. Yes. Transit Thornaby. Yeah.
HR: And the only one I ever saw again was David. The pilot. David Jenkins. I never saw any of the others again. I spoke to them. Bill Gorbon, the rear gunner, he emigrated to Canada. He died in Toronto, I think. He was living near Niagara Falls. And Bill, Bill Phillips, the flight engineer, he’s dead. As a matter of fact, it’s through him, writing to him, I’ve still got the letter somewhere that he got out, he sent a letter. It just came out of the blue really, “You may remember me. I was your flight engineer.” Et cetera et cetera. And that’s how I got in touch with the others. And he started it really. As I say two or three of them. I mean, I was told that he was dead, and that he was dead. I don’t know about, that’s Les [Algon?] the mid-under gunner. He comes from Edmonton, and Bill Ranson was from Doncaster but I never knew anything about them at all.
AS: It seems a fairly common part of of service, or at least Bomber Command life that crews were almost deliberately dispersed I think.
HR: Well, I don’t know about that. I’ve got, I’ve only got these records because they’re my friends and this is a boyhood friend of mine in Laindon. We were in the Scouts together and he was a navigator on 83 Squadron. And he had three lucky escapes. The first time — that was a raid on Stettin and the aircraft was damaged. Was fatally damaged and they ditched in the sea. And they all got in their dinghy and floating along. Suddenly one of them fell out. He stood up. And they were off the coast of Sweden and [laughs] they thought the rough seas, rough seas were coming their way. It was the breakers on the beach. So they were very lucky. And the second time they were coming, they went out on operation but they’d developed, two of the engines packed up so they had to bale out. And, but then he did a second tour and in November 1943 they were shot down over Berlin and he was killed in action. And this other one with, he was the one who gave me the dig in the ribs and said, ‘I bet that was you, his name was Peter Barnes. He was on Beauforts. We were on Beauforts together. And they were killed on their first op in a brand new Lancaster. The first, the first the first operation for the Lancaster and the first operation for them and they were shot down at Russelsheim. That’s why I keep those.
AS: Yeah, I can, I can understand that. Did you mainly have you’re your own aeroplane?
HR: Mainly yes. It survived the war. It’s HK5 78. That’s the serial number, you know. Because some of the aircraft went from squadron to squadron so they had different squadron letters. We were, as you might be able to see on there KOC. C for Charlie.
AS: Charlie. Yeah.
HR: KO was the squadron letters. Because there were three flights. Each flight, eight to ten aircraft so of course you run out of letters in the alphabet. So the Flight C had a different course, different letters. KO was A and B Flights and C Flight was A4. And in November ’44 195 squadron was reformed using C Flight. And they went off to a place called Wratting Common and then we acquired another C Flight with the letters IL. And that’s how it worked. And some squadrons did different. They would say C flight would have the letter, they would put the letter F2 or something like that. Another way of doing that. But that was number 3 Group. That was the way we did it in 3 Group. One squadron that was part of our base, 514, they put up twenty two aircraft. That was the Nuremberg raid. Only four came back. They lost eighteen aircraft. That’s how it was. Yeah.
AS: Did you ever have anything to do with the emergency landing grounds? Woodbridge or Manston or Carnaby?
HR: We knew all about them but no. No. We, as I say we only got, we only got damaged once and that was just the one engine. We knew all about them of course.
AS: Yeah. A different theme entirely if I may. When you weren’t on ops was there much training? Dinghy drills?
HR: No. The only thing that used to happen if you weren’t on ops each each aircrew trade had its own leader. So, all the wireless operators, all the air gunners, all the navigators if they weren’t on ops they had to meet up and the leader of their trade, I mean ours was called the signals leader would give you any latest information. Points to watch, you know and anything that was new and you had to go. I remember this one chap, the signals leader was a Flight Lieutenant Hartley. A very nice chap. A gentleman. But one [laughs] he had to tell him off about his language and the strange thing was about that man I had some email from a relative, “I understand you knew… his name was Marston, Sergeant.” ‘Yes, I remember Sergeant Marston because he was told about his language.’ He wasn’t the only one of course who swore but Mr Hartley didn’t like a lot of it in open. And as I say it was during one of these sessions that he said to me, ‘I’m putting you up for commission.’
AS: Going again in another direction. When you were in Bomber Command, out in the pubs or wherever or on reading the press and listening to the newsreels what sort of sense did you have of how the population thought about Bomber Command at the time?
HR: There wasn’t much to tell about that. If we, if somebody had said to them, oh think of all those civilians that were killed, you know. Hamburg was the worst. Forty two thousand people were killed in air raids in Hamburg. They talk about Dresden. Twenty seven thousand. I mean that’s bad enough. Two wrongs don’t make a right and all war is evil. Whatever people say. If anybody talks to me I say civilians were killed. Yes. But then all war is evil. But what people used to think at the time was ---— bloody good luck. They started it, you know. We remember Coventry and Rotterdam. Of course, as you know Exeter took quite a pasting. Now, I’ve got a book. Oh, it’s upstairs, called, “The Baedeker Raids.” And it’s a lot of, and there’s one [pause] now where was I at? Let me think. Is it in here? No, I don’t think so. No. Anyway, there was in the, in this book it mentions Exeter and it said Number 17 Regent’s Park took a direct hit and it wasn’t this house. It was over there. The numbers were different.
AS: Yeah.
HR: But then all the tiles were blown off. That’s why there’s a lot, there’s a lot of moss on them. Because instead of the earth with the material I’m thinking of? They’re concrete tiles and they, ‘cause the moss, a lot of moss. And somebody suggested I ought to have the roof cleaned. A number of builders came along and one of them, common sense, said, ‘Does your roof leak?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Well leave it alone. There’s extra protection.’ I’ve never thought of that. But that’s why.
AS: Yeah.
HR: Anyway, there we are.
AS: So very much the public was, was supportive.
HR: Oh yes.
AS: Behind you during that.
HR: Absolutely. Yeah.
AS: When it was over and you went back to civilian life do you think that support changed over time as new ideas came in?
HR: Not in the current population because they were, it’s very well for the people to talk about in the piping days of peace. They’ve got to, people have no idea how people were during the war. They can only guess unless they, they’ve still got parents old enough to tell them. It’s so totally different. You can’t really reconcile the two points of view really because people thought differently. I mean some people saw their relatives blown to pieces by bombs. We know that we killed more of them then they did of us and two wrongs don’t make a right and war is evil. But there it is. That’s the war. I did, I did send a letter up once to The Express and Echo. I think it’s in one. I don’t know if it’s in there or not. I’m not sure. Talking about this and I said. Oh yeah. Talking about the Memorial. That’s right. It’s a waste. I said, ‘Never mind about your thoughts about civilians. That Memorial is to the fifty five thousand five hundred men who were killed in action. Not killed or wounded. Killed in action.’ No other, no trace of them, you know. Their graves are there to be seen. And that’s a lot of people and if you’d have told them, I mean as I say this chap when we were sitting at OTU and talking about it I thought, ‘You don’t know it mate but you’ve only got about four months to live,’ you know. You didn’t think of that. Didn’t think of it of course. We thought we’d all survive. I had some good friends. One of that crew that collided, the wireless operator, he was a Canadian named Joe Dunsford, Flying Officer Joe Dunsford. He always had a book under his arm. Never went without it, ‘Hiya Harry. Read any good books lately?’ And suddenly he wasn’t there. You know.
AS: Yeah. Did you go to the opening of the Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park?
HR: Yes.
AS: Yeah.
HR: I was in the salute area. Gina was with me. I’ve got, I’ve got photos of all that. This lot is Sunday. Last Sunday at St Paul’s Cathedral.
AS: Wow.
HR: You show me what they are and I’ll tell you what they were. Oh, that’s Mitch coming out of St Paul’s toilet. They’re four members of the Yatesbury Association, three members of the Yatesbury Association who I met there.
AS: So you all trained or did part of your training at Yatesbury Wireless School.
HR: I did my training.
AS: Yeah.
HR: They didn’t. The other three are they were all post war. That’s inside, that’s inside the City of London Guildhall where they had a reception after.
AS: And that is a large chunk of your family.
HR: That’s it, yes. That’s Lorraine who you’ve just seen. Gina. Gina, my granddaughter. My son in law and my grandson. You know, the one who’s up there. The Batchelor of Science.
AS: Why is it that aircrew always attract stunning blondes?
HR: Do you know who that is?
AS: I don’t.
HR: Have a look. It’s somebody quite famous actually.
[pause]
AS: It’s Carol Vorderman?
HR: That’s right.
AS: It is.
HR: It is.
AS: She’s had her hair blonded.
HR: That’s right. Yeah.
AS: She lives less than two miles from me.
HR: Does she?
AS: I didn’t recognise her.
HR: And there’s that one. I was wearing, I’ve got a little pin badge shaped like a Lancaster. It's in my lapel. And she explained to this city alderman, she said, ‘See. That’s the four Merlin engines on the Lancaster,’ she was saying to him.
AS: The same.
HR: The same. That’s a copy of the same one.
AS: Yeah. Fabulous. I’ll just pause that.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Harry Rossiter
Creator
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Adam Sutch
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-09-13
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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01:19:05 audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ARossiterHC150913
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Description
An account of the resource
Harry Rossiter grew up in East London but his family moved to Essex which gave Harry a “ringside view” of the Battle of Britain. He volunteered as a bicycle messenger and tried to join the Royal Navy as a telegraphist. He was encouraged to join the RAF to train as a wireless operator. He was originally posted as support for 217 Squadron in Ceylon but he was later returned to England and posted to 115 Squadron at RAF Witchford. His crew survived a number of night fighter attacks while on operations. He recalls the losses on Bomber Command and his demobilisation in 1946. Harry had always had a love of music and played the trumpet and cornet in dance bands throughout the war and into civilian life.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
India
Pakistan
Sri Lanka
England--London
England--Cambridgeshire
Atlantic Ocean
Atlantic Ocean--Rockall Bank
Poland--Szczecin
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1938
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
115 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Gunnery School
air sea rescue
aircrew
bombing
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
Defiant
Dominie
entertainment
fear
Gee
Lancaster
memorial
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
perception of bombing war
Proctor
RAF Barrow in Furness
RAF Madley
RAF Millom
RAF Witchford
RAF Yatesbury
training
Window
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/522/32093/BMannAMannAv3.2.pdf
8d2f09c086bd0149c025df13d8536dd3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Mann, Alan
A Mann
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Mann, A
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Alan Mann (b.1926). He was an apprentice at De-Havilland during the war and experienced bombing in 1940.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Alan Mann and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-01-30
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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The other day I watched a programme where a family attempted to show what it must have been like to have lived in the war. It involved dressing up in 1940 clothes and spending time in an Anderson shelter, with sounds of an air raid and the music of Glen Miller. I found I could in no way relate to this and felt it did little to show people what it was really like. The war has been very well documented and there is no shortage of material for people interested in reading about the war, but what was it really like for me?
In 1938 I was eleven years old and lived with my parents in Lewisham. I was aware that there was talk about another war with Germany and saw various preparations taking place. I had recently joined my new school, Brockley Grammar in Hilly Fields and there was talk about the school being evacuated. Towards the end of the year the school was evacuated to Robertsbridge in Kent, I chose not to go.
I remember seeing anti-aircraft guns being installed in Hilly Fields, close to my school, windows being taped up, buildings being protected with sand bags and gas masks being issued. Although I can remember a lot of events I cannot recall the specific dates on which they occurred. However with the aid of the modern computer and by re-reading various books on the subject, I am now able to record events more clearly, but for what purpose? Mainly so that my recollections can be easily accessed for future reference and perhaps somebody else may find something of interest. My father served throughout the First World War and I now deeply regret not finding out more about his experiences.
In starting to write this I find it difficult to accept that the war started over sixty five years ago and must now be considered history, but here goes!
My first recollection connected with the forthcoming war was at a Biggin Hill flying day. Together with my parents we used to visit RAF Biggin Hill for their annual flying display, held to celebrate Empire Air Day and visited the last one on the 20th May 1938. Being very interested in aircraft I was well aware that the Germans had a modern air force and a very formidable new fighter, the Messerschmitt BF 109.
At the show we were treated to air displays by the squadron’s Gloster Gauntlets, Gladiators and other biplane aircraft. As I recall most of the show consisted of ancient biplanes, fighters and bombers, however we did have a fly past by our latest monoplane fighter, the Hawker Hurricane. On the ground we were allowed to see a closely guarded Hurricane and Spitfire! The Spitfire shown was evidently the first production model. Also featured were the latest additions to the RAF, a Wellington Bomber, a Blenheim and a new monoplane the Defiant. I remember leaving the show being very impressed with the Hurricane and Spitfire but also concerned that the squadron’s main aircraft was still the biplane Gauntlet, certainly no match for the Messerschmitt.
Gloster Gauntlets, top speed 230 mph Messerschmitt BF 109, top speed 350 mph
I had seen pictures showing the results of the German air force bombing villages in Spain,
(Spain’s civil war, 1936 to 1939) and was well aware what could be in store for us in the event of
Page 2
another war with Germany.
During this period I had attended various local schools catering for those children not evacuated, ending up at a local school called Morden Terrace. Eventually I was offered a place at the South East London Technical Institute (SELTI) and in September 1938 began a three year course in mechanical engineering.
To add some order to these recollections I have decided to place them in the order they happened, beginning with the day Germany invaded Czechoslovakia.
In March 1939 Germany invaded Czechoslovakia and then on the 1st September invaded
Poland. We gave Germany an ultimatum which they chose to ignore. As a result our Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain announced at 11am on the 3rd September 1939 that we were once again at war with Germany. France joined us as did most of the countries in the British Empire and the Commonwealth.
This was a very sombre occasion as my parent’s memories of the last war were still very fresh in their minds. Shortly afterwards the air raid siren sounded and we expected the worse, but fortunately it was a false alarm. We obtained our main information about the progress of the war from the radio, especially the evening 9 o’clock news. The BBC had decided to name its announcers so that we could distinguish them from imitations by the German propagandists. I still remember the start of the news which began “Here is the news, and this is Alvar Lidell reading it”.
The BBC news bulletins, although censored, gave us an idea of the progress of the war and generally determined how we felt. Initially we expected heavy bombing by the German air force but as this did not materialise we began to feel more confident.
The main evacuation of children from our cities commenced shortly afterwards, although the first evacuation had occurred at the time of the Munich Crisis, a year earlier.
Following the German invasion of Poland in 1939 the British Expeditionary Force was sent to France shortly after Britain and France had declared war on Germany. It was commanded by Lord Gort, who was under the command of the French General Maurice Gamelin. The BEF was considered to be a formidable fighting force and together with the huge French Army we had every reason to think the war would soon be over, however most of us were unaware of the political situation in France at the time. The senior French generals could not agree on a coordinated plan of attack, preferring to wait to see what the Germans would do. In the pre- war years the French had built a series of fortifications known as the Maginot Line and the Germans had built a similar one called the Siegfried Line. Most of the allied forces were sent to reinforce the Maginot Line against the expected German attack.
At this time the French had the largest army in Europe, with the support of a large air force and navy, however its Generals were mostly veterans of the First World War and consequently thought in terms of defeating an expected attack at the Maginot Line.
On the 14th October.1939 our battleship HMS Royal Oak was hit by 3 torpedoes and sunk with heavy loss of life, whilst at anchor in our Naval Base at Scapa Flow.
On the13th December.1939 we lost an aircraft carrier, HMS Courageous. I remember visiting this ship earlier in the year at a Royal Navy open day at Portsmouth and being impressed with its size. The German submarine U29 fired three torpedoes with two hitting the ship. It sunk in less than 15 minutes killing 518 of its crew, including the Captain. This was not a good start to the war!
German warships and in particular their pocket battleship Graf Spee, had been very active in sinking our merchant ships. The Graf Spee was eventually sighted by three of our cruisers, Ajax,
Achilles and Exeter and after a short engagement was eventually scuttled on the 13th December
1939 in what has since become known as the “Battle of the River Plate”. At last we had some good news which helped to cheer us up!
In 1939 Britain only grew enough food to feed one person in three and the German submarines and surface ships now threatened to starve the U.K. into defeat. But it was not just food, many other
Page 3
essential things had to be imported such as rubber, wood, crude oil etc, were now threatened.
Petrol (distilled from imported crude oil) was rationed soon after the war started and butter, sugar, bacon and meat rationed from January 1940. so even before the first signs of war in France we were already feeling the effects of the war.
HMS Courageous HMS Royal Oak
The first deployment of our forces was completed by the 11th October 1939 at which point 158,000 men and their equipment had been transported to France. It was lead by our General Lord Gort, aged 53, under the Supreme Commander of the French Army, General Maurice Gamelin, aged 68, both veterans of the First World War. The majority of his troops were stationed along the Franco-Belgian border at the Maginot Line. Belgium and Holland were not at war and so no troops were sent to them.
By September 1939 we had rapidly modernised our Air Force which now featured over 500 of the latest Hurricanes and Spitfires. Although still falling far short of the estimated strength of the German Luftwaffe, it was a considerable improvement on our resources in 1938, at the time of the Munich Crisis.
Most members of the French army were in the infantry. The first armoured divisions had just been formed but the first three would not be ready for action until the spring of 1940. At the start of
the war the French air force had 826 fighter planes, including 370 modem fighters capable of taking on the latest German fighter, the Messerschmitt 109. It also had over 400 modern bombers, plus a large navy featuring some very useful capital ships. By the spring of 1940 the French air force had increased to 740 modern fighters.
Over the next few months troops, materials and vehicles continued to be sent to France and by the 13th March 1940 the BEF had doubled in size to around 316,000 men, with further tanks, guns, ammunition and supplies including an initial RAF detachment of about 500 assorted aircraft. With our combined Forces it did not seem unreasonable to expect that we would quickly defeat the German army. . However after establishing our armies at the German frontier General Gamelin, instead of attacking, decided to wait to see what the Germans would do.
On the 1st January 1940, conscription began of all able-bodied men between the ages of 18 to 27, later this was increased to the age of 50. You were exempted if you could prove you were employed on vital war work. My brother, an apprentice printer aged 20, had already volunteered for the RAF. On completion of his training, as an airframe fitter, he was transferred to an RAF training airfield at Oudtshoorn in South Africa.
In early February we became aware of a German merchant ship called “Altmark” which we understood contained a number of crews from merchant ships sunk by the German pocket battleship
“Graf Spee”. We then learnt that it was located in neutral Norwegian waters, however, despite this,
on February 14th 1940 our destroyer HMS Cossack sailed into Jossing Fjord and with the call “OK
mates the Navy’s here” rescued 299 of our sailors. At last we had something to be proud of, but not for long!
It soon became apparent that Gamelin was not willing to engage in an attacking battle with the
Page 4
German army, somehow hoping this could be avoided. This indecision gave Hitler time to decide when and where to attack. When he was ready, on the 9th April 1940, Germany avoided the Maginot Line by invading neutral Denmark and Norway and then followed with the invasion of Holland, Belgium and then attacked France, avoiding the Maginot Line by going through Belgium.
This took the French generals completely by surprise as they were not expecting or prepared for this development and never recovered in sufficient time to confront the Germans with any great force. Without leadership the French morale soon crumbled under the sudden attack from the air and German armour.
The German advance had been achieved by the combined use of tanks, infantry and aircraft in what has become known as a blitzkrieg.The word, usually shortened to blitz, means a “lightning war” and is associated with a series of quick and decisive short battles aimed at creating fear and confusion in the opposing force and delivering a knockout blow before it could fully recover.
The German air force (Luftwaffe) played a very important part in this exercise using the Junkers 87 Stuka dive bomber to create panic and confusion in both the troops and retreating civilians.
Junkers JU 87 “Stuka” dive bomber
When the fighting in France finally began it soon became apparent that the majority of the French forces were already demoralised, due to bad leadership and political corruption and when the Luftwaffe started their bombing campaign the French army quickly disintegrated, leading the way open for immediate action by the German army. French troops were seen to throw away their guns and even discard their uniforms to join the fleeing civilians. There were even reports about some French pilots actually trying to prevent our aircraft from taking off for fear of reprisals, saying "why risk your life when the war is already lost".
On May 10th 1940 Chamberlain resigned due to ill health and Winston Churchill became our new Prime Minister, this despite some hostility from members of our government. Some, like the French, thought the war was already lost and that we should be talking with Hitler in an attempt to obtain the best terms for surrender. Fortunately Winston’s inspiring oratory resulted in a small majority in favour of us continuing to fight.
Without the full co-operation of the French forces and the almost immediate surrender of both Belgium and Holland, General Gort decided that our continued presence in France had become untenable and on the 26th May we began evacuating our troops from Dunkirk.
Although we managed to save 338,226 allied troops we had to leave all our supplies behind, including 615 tanks, 2,472 guns, 65,000 vehicles, 25,000 motorcycles, 416,000 tons of stores, 75,000 tons of ammunition and 162,000 tons of petrol. (These surprising and very precise figures have been obtained from historical records and demonstrate the extent of the disaster).
In just a few weeks Britain had gone from having one of the best equipped armies to being almost non-existent, and this without engaging the enemy in any major battle. We at home could not
believe it and wondered what disaster was going to happen to us next!
During the few weeks of actual fighting it has been estimated that the French lost 757 aircraft
(mostly on the ground) and two million French soldiers had surrendered. However some must have
Page 5
fought because the French lost nearly 94,000 dead with 250,000 wounded. The British lost 3,475 dead and 15,850 wounded, with many thousands taken prisoner.
General Lord Gort, commander of the BEF was subsequently criticized for his actions during the short French campaign, but most realised that without support from our allies he had little choice but
to withdraw. His subsequent actions meant that a high proportion of our troops were saved and thus able to fight again, but the loss of so much equipment was extremely serious.
While the RAF’s Hurricanes and Spitfires had already proven themselves against the German Luftwaffe the RAF had lost a considerable number of its valuable front line aircraft and experienced pilots. The operations in France cost the Royal Air Force a total of 959 aircraft, including 477 of its latest Hurricanes and Spitfires and other aircraft including bombers operating from UK. bases. Two hundred and eighty of our fighter pilots had lost their lives or had been taken prisoner.
Well aware of the speed with which Germany had just conquered most of Europe we wondered just how much time we had before Germany turned its attention to us. Before using its ground troops the German Air Force had softened up the target by intense bombing and we expected the same would happen to us. There were plenty of rumours about German agents (fifth column) being already here, the forerunner of an attack by German airborne soldiers. This was reinforced by the German radio frequently giving accurate reports about local conditions in the UK.
This waiting for the expected attack was unnerving while we waited for the sound of church bells, the warning that an invasion had began, however unlike the French and other Europeans we were prepared to defend our Country, although unsure what with! True we had a newly formed Home Guard, formed of civilians either unfit or too old to join the regular forces, armed with a variety of home made weapons and little else, apart from a display of British defiance!
We had heard frequent reports of atrocities being carried out by the Germans on prisoners and refugees which only hardened our resolve not to let them land. Our immediate problem was how were we were going to stop them? After Dunkirk we had no army and a depleted air force with only 331 modern Spitfires and Hurricanes to defend Britain from the expected invasion. If the Germans attacked Britain right away Dowding, who was in charge of Fighter Command, was concerned that his forces would be hard pushed to keep them at bay, and it was an immediate attack that was thought most likely.
Seeing the remnants of our army arriving back in the UK we had to accept how vulnerable our position had suddenly become. On the home front we were already suffering from the effects of both food and material shortages and with the fear of an invasion imminent our future suddenly looked very bleak When war was declared on September 3rd 1939, together with the considerable forces of France, we had every reason to expect a quick end to the war; however things had not gone according to plan and in just ten months we were facing defeat!
Like the French we had many people saying the situation was hopeless and that we should try to get the best possible terms for surrender, but unlike the French we now had a fighting Prime Minister in Winston Churchill. Through his broadcasts he encouraged us to keep our nerve and to fight on. Despite little resources he assured us that we could and would eventually win. Then to make matters worse, on the 10th June thinking the war would soon be over and wanting a share in the spoils, Italy declared war on us.
On the 22nd June Franc finally surrendered. All this happened within a few weeks from Germany commencing the ground war in Europe. We had no doubt what was in store for us and wondered how long we had before the invasion of our island. Winston Churchill, our new prime minister, then assured everybody that we would and could fight on. There can be no doubt that his attitude and speeches helped us to believe we still had a future, despite certain defeat staring us in the face. Unfortunately some modern historians find it difficult to accept the fact that without Churchill’s leadership our government, with some public support, may well have been seeking the best terms for surrender. People alive at this time will remember the importance of Churchill’s oratory on our morale; we trusted him and his leadership.
Page 6
Although the French Army was shattered, the French Navy was still very much intact. Darlan,
the Admiral of the French Fleet, had told Churchill that the Fleet would be sunk before it ccould be
surrendered to the Germans; however Churchill was not convinced. If the French Navy had fallen
into German hands the situation at sea would have become critical. Added to all our other problems this could have been the last straw.
Adolf Hitler, Chancellor of Germany Winston Churchill, UK Prime
from 30th January 1933 to 30th April Minister from the10th May 1940
1945 until 26th July 1945
Churchill was therefore faced with a decision, either to trust that Darlan would and could keep his word or that events would quickly determine the result. On the 22nd June France finally surrendered and it was time for Churchill to decide what he had to do.
On the 1st of July Churchill, with the backing of our government, gave Darlan an immediate ultimatum regarding the fate of the French Navy. On the 3rd July the British surrounded the French Fleet at the port of Mers-el-Kebir right outside Oran, Algeria. Churchill's message was loud and clear, “sail to Britain, sail to the USA, or scuttle your ships within the next six hours, or we will be forced to take action”
At first the French refused to speak to our negotiators. Two hours later the French showed the British an order they had received from Admiral Darlan instructing them to sail the ships to the USA if the Germans broke the armistice and demanded the ships. Meanwhile the British had intercepted a message from the German sympathetic French Vichy Government ordering reinforcements to move urgently to Oran. This was not good news. "Settle everything before dark or you will have reinforcements to deal with” Churchill told them but received no reply. Churchill was left with no alternative other than to order an immediate attack on the French ships.
An hour and a half later the British Fleet attacked and in less than ten minutes, 1,297 French sailors were dead and three battleships sunk. One battleship and five destroyers managed to escape. We suffered no loss or damage.
While the French were furious over the events the reaction in England was the exact opposite. For the first time since taking over as Prime Minister Churchill received a unanimous standing
ovation in parliament. Churchill had a message for the British, for Hitler, and for the rest of the world and that message was heard loud and clear, England was prepared to fight on whatever
the outcome!
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Sometimes at weekends and evenings I cycled with a school friend to see what was happening
at our local airfield, RAF Biggin Hill. We had discovered a field in Downe which gave us a good view of the northern part of the airfield. The main road from Bromley to Westerham, which
previously passed through the airfield was now closed, the traffic being diverted through country lanes to Westerham.
From our vantage point we had a good view of the aircraft, which were mostly Hawker Hurricanes. The squadrons had been very active having been involved in the battle for France and our subsequent evacuation from Dunkirk. The aircraft and buildings had been camouflaged during September 1938 at the time of the Munich crisis, when Hurricanes slowly began to replace the Gauntlet biplane fighters. Although we saw little of the German air force it was evident that air battles had been occurring off the coast, from news we heard on the radio. The war news was not good, as we had already lost some of our capital ships and the German submarines were very active sinking our supply ships. The war was already beginning to have an effect on our well-being and we were very apprehensive as to what the future held in store for us.
From the 10th July, now recorded as the start of the “Battle of Britain”, the Germans carried out heavy raids on Falmouth, Swansea, Aberdeen and Cardiff. This was phase two of four phases in the German plan deemed essential to obtain air superiority prior to a successful invasion of our shores.
Phase 1: The Luftwaffe would attack our shipping in the channel to test our RAF’s response.
Phase 2: Eagle Attack, an attack on our air defences and southern towns.
Phase 3: The Attack on Airfields intending to destroy our RAF.
Phase 4: The Blitz, an attack on the civilians in London. causing them to seek a surrender.
Hitler was convinced that in our current situation our government would have no choice but to seek talks in order to secure the best terms for our surrender. By demonstrating the strength of his Luftwaffe Hitler hoped to speed these talks on their way.
On the 19th July Hitler gave us the last chance to surrender on his terms and on the 22nd July Lord Halifax responded by saying that we would continue to fight until we had secured freedom for us and others. This was good to hear, but did little to convince us that we had much left to continue the fight. All we had to stop the Germans was our Royal Navy and a depleted Royal Air Force. Up to now the RAF, mainly consisting of Hurricanes, had shown that they could compete against the Messerschmitt 109 and were more than a match for their bombers. We were aware that the German Luftwaffe had already shown itself to be a very formidable fighting force, much larger than anything we could offer. Our Royal Navy was busy protecting our merchant ships and was prepared for possible action against German capital ships.
At this stage I had personally seen little of the fighting, apart from watching news reels and hearing the news on the radio, both censored in our favour. However this all changed on the 18th August with the introduction of phase three of Hitler’s plan, with attacks on our air fields, including Biggin Hill.
Thirty bombers attacked the airfield causing damage to the motor transport sheds. Two airmen were killed and three wounded. A number of high explosive and delayed action bombs were dropped on the airfield, but it remained operational. Three further raids occurred on the airfield on the 22/23rdAugust and the following two days, but the airfield didn’t suffer any further damage. I was unaware of these raids when, with a school friend, we decided to visit the airfield on Saturday the 30th August.
I remember it was a sunny evening and, with my friend Ron Poole, decided to cycle to our local airfield to see what was going on. We arrived about 5.30 and settled in at our usual place. Nothing much appeared to be going on apart from a few Hurricanes being refuelled when suddenly we saw many aircraft coming in very low and then things began to happen. We heard the rattle of machine guns and then the deafening sound of bombs exploding, much too close for our comfort. The noise was terrific and in a very short time our airfield was in a mess with planes and vehicles burning
everywhere. There had been was no warning that anything unusual was about to happen, but in a
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few moments the scene had changed and the airfield was now in a mess, with fires, explosions and the noise of fire bells and smoke and dust covering the airfield.
When we first saw the aircraft we thought they were Blenheims, but soon became disillusioned! After the initial shock we decided it was time to leave and didn’t visit the airfield for some time after
that.
An official report of the raid reads as follows:
“Saturday August 31st 1940 at 1800 hours.
For the second time that day Biggin Hill was bombed and almost put out of action. Oil tanks were hit and set ablaze, the main electricity cable was hit and cut the power lines to all buildings. With hangars and roadways cratered it was anticipated that the airfield would be out of action for at least two days.
Nine Ju88 bombers had managed to get through the British defences taking everybody by surprise and struck Biggin Hill with a low level bombing attack, dropping 1000 lb bombs and causing mayhem. The transport yard was destroyed, storerooms, the armoury and both officers and sergeants messes were severely damaged, two hangars had been wrecked earlier in the day and now another hanger was almost flattened and on top of all that telephone and communication lines were severed and gas and water mains ruptured. Casualties amounted to thirty-nine personnel killed and thirty five injured”.
Raids continued on the airfield until the 20th April 1941, a total of 25 causing considerable damage. 42 personnel were killed during the raids with many injured. Biggin Hill was considered a very important target by the Germans, but remained operational throughout the war. During this period the weather was very good and we watched many contrails in the sky, caused by the fighting aircraft and sometimes heard machine and cannon fire. The good news was that we were told we were winning the battle.
On the 7th September the Germans put into action phase three of their plan to terrorise the civilian population and, as a result, force our Government into suing for peace. The German Luftwaffe switched their attack from the RAF airfields and attacked London, which became the official start of the “Blitz.” This was very fortunate as it allowed the RAF to recover, but not so good for the Londoners. This switch of the German attacks away from our airfields has been considered by historians as a great German blunder that may well have lost them the war.
On Sunday the 15th September1940 we were informed that we had shot down 183 aircraft for the loss of only 30, good news indeed. In fact actual figures compiled after the war showed that we had destroyed 56 for the loss of 26. However it was apparent that the Germans could not sustain these losses, especially the loss of their experienced aircrew.
In the meantime our bombers had been attacking the embarkation ports and destroying their invasion barges. Goring had promised Hitler that the RAF would be destroyed in a maximum of three weeks, allowing the invasion to take place. This obviously was not happening and Hitler decided to delay the invasion and to concentrate on the invasion of Russia. Unfortunately we did not know this at the time and still thought that the expected invasion could still occur at any moment.
History shows that although we had lost a lot of aircraft, the loss of experienced pilots was more serious. The figures showed that the situation, prior to switching the attacks away from our airfields,
was such that our RAF would have been unable to continue for much longer, perhaps days at the most!
While the critical Battle of Britain officially commenced on the 10th July 1940 and ended on the 31st October, the air raids and destruction continued long afterwards. However for me the real Battle of Britain began on the 26th May 1940, when our troops began to arrive back from Dunkirk, and didn’t end until the fear of an invasion had receded, when the Germans invaded Russia on the 22nd June 1941. This was the period when I felt we could and probably would lose the war.
Phase four of Hitler’s invasion plan began on the 6th of October and continued until the 31st of
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October. As the long hot summer ran into October the German daylight bomber losses became too heavy to sustain, and they started to operate only at night.
The London Blitz started on the 7th of September 1940 and continued until the 19th of May 1941, for 76 consecutive nights, resulting in over a million London houses being destroyed or damaged. During this period many of our other cities were also attacked, resulting in further damage and loss
of life. Coventry, for instance, was almost completely destroyed on the 13th November 1940. In one night, more than 4,000 homes were destroyed, along with around three quarters of the cities
factories. There was barely an undamaged building left in the city centre. Two hospitals, two churches and a police station were also among the damaged buildings. More than 600 people were killed and over 1,000 had been badly injured.
The Blitz had killed at least 60,575 with 86,182 wounded; however the bombing had not achieved Hitler’s intended goal of demoralizing the British into surrender and by June 1941 the threat of an invasion of Britain had passed. Hitler had by this time realised that the British were not going to be terrorized into accepting defeat, as had happened to the rest of Europe. He then turned his attention to attacking Russia and the Battle of Britain was finally over and Germany finally conceded that she had not won the battle to gain air supremacy necessary for an invasion of our island, despite all the odds being in her favour.
When the Battle of Britain officially ended, figures obtained after the war showed Germany had lost 1389 aircraft with 643 badly damaged. As the battle took part over the UK, most of the German aircrew shot down were either killed or became prisoners. We lost 792 aircraft shot down and a considerable number destroyed on the ground. Apparently the loss in aircraft was never serious as these were being replaced. However the loss of experienced pilots was crucial. We had lost 544 pilots killed, with a large number seriously wounded. This represented a very high proportion of the pilots available to continue the battle. It was calculated that if these losses continued the RAF would soon be put out of action, perhaps in days.
What did the battle achieve? The answer is very simple; it prevented the Germans from
obtaining air superiority, allowing us to remain in the war. If we had lost the battle the Germans may well have invaded and we would have had very little to stop them. We would then have become another member of the Third Reich! Some youngsters may well ask would this have been a bad thing? To this I would say look at what had happened to those countries already under German rule and if you really care, take the time to study the considerable amount of documentary evidence available. If this was done then I am quite certain the question would not arise. We should never forget the debt we owe to those who lost their lives fighting the “Battle of Britain” and remember the considerable part my local airfield, Biggin Hill, contributed to winning this battle.
At the start of the Blitz my brother was in Africa, my father was working at the Evening Standard, a newspaper owned by Lord Beaverbrook, and my mother was working part time at the Dockhead School, Bermondsey, where Tommy Steele (aged about 6) was a pupil. We kept chickens in the garden and I had a mongrel dog called Raff and a pet tortoise. My father was trained in first aid and was an air raid warden. Food was in short supply as was clothing and other items considered essential for a normal existence. We still thought invasion was imminent and generally felt very depressed with the war news.
Frequent telegrams were arriving indicating the loss of loved ones. Two of my brother’s friends in the RAF had already been killed and my parents talked of others they knew who were no longer with us. A lot had already happened before the first bombs had fallen on London, mostly bad news, all contributing to our general depression.
Some house-holders had an Anderson shelter. The Anderson shelter was designed to go in a garden and over one million were issued by the end of 1938. Eventually over 2.5 million were issued, free to people earning less than £250 per year, otherwise the cost was £7. They measured 6.5 ft. by 4.5 ft. and consisted of curved corrugated iron sheets. They had to be sunk 3 ft. in the ground
and covered with earth and sandbags, the front entrance had a sandbag blast wall. They were
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designed to accommodate 4 to 6 people. They were cold, draughty and damp, but nevertheless saved a lot of lives. They were usually lit by paraffin oil lamps and unheated. Like most things paraffin, candles and batteries were all in short supply. Everything needed for creature comfort seemed to be unavailable; “after all there is a war on” we were told
My father had strengthened our cellar and placed planks of wood on which we tried to sleep. It had electric light, but very few other luxuries. For the first weeks the Germans seemed to do as they pleased, with little opposition. We heard a few anti-aircraft guns firing, but saw little of any real
opposition from our fighters. On most days and nights we heard bombs exploding and the bells of rescue lorries. The next day we saw damaged houses and heard about people being killed and
wounded. This was mostly by word of mouth as the news on our radio and newspapers were
censured. If we listened to the German radio an Irishman, William Joyce, known by us as “Lord Haw Haw“ gave his version of the air raids. In the evening we listened to the radio and sometimes played card games or Monopoly.
I remember my mother frequently joining a queue, although mostly she had no idea what she was queuing for. It didn’t matter, if it was still available when she got to the head of the queue she bought it anyway. A sausage, rabbit or even offal was considered a luxury. Lack of essential food was becoming a problem, even fruit and vegetables were now in short supply.
The actual Blitz has been very well documented, so I will only comment on my experience. I spent a lot of my school attendance in their air raid shelter. Sometimes I accompanied my mother shopping at Lewisham and Catford, but nearly always spent some time in a convenient surface shelter. We later heard that these were not safe. They were constructed with a brick wall and a heavy concrete roof. Consequently if a bomb landed nearby the blast could cause the walls to collapse and the heavy roof fall on the people inside. We had heard of deaths so caused, but with bombs exploding near by it somehow seemed safer to get under cover. Incendiary bombs were falling everywhere and to make life even more exciting, the Germans added a device which caused the incendiary bomb to explode, causing an extra hazard.
Eventually we had more anti-aircraft guns and these brought another danger, that of falling shrapnel. I remember my father saying that there was more chance of being hit on the head with
a piece of hot shrapnel than being hit with a bomb! One thing I recall is that our Navy brought some ships up the Thames to assist the London anti-aircraft guns. Cycling to Greenwich I remember seeing a destroyer which we were informed was the famous “Cossack,” the destroyer which had achieved fame when it had rescued our merchant sailors from the German prison ship, “Altmark”.
The London Blitz officially ended on the 19th May 1941 but we were unaware of this at the time
and still expected the raids to continue. The Germans had decided to halt the bombing when it
became apparent that bombing alone was unlikely to cause the British civilians to request their Government to surrender. The Germans apparently could not understand this as bombing civilians, or even the threat of bombing had worked very successfully before, as in Belgium, Holland and France.
During the Blitz on London more than 36,000 bombs had fallen, killing 12,696 with over 20,000 seriously injured. More than a million homes had been demolished and many more badly damaged. Germany had hoped that the civilian population would be forced to surrender, but I was not aware of any such feeling. Hitler had certainly made us very angry, but all this did was to make us more determined to continue the fight. Unfortunately we civilians had nothing with which to fight back, however it helped boost our morale when we heard that our bombers were active over Germany, especially when they bombed Berlin!
When I hear people calling our bomber boys murderers I despair, how can they ignore the fact that the Germans were the first to bomb civilians and then to ignore the indiscriminate blanket bombing of our cities, with the intention of destroying the morale of its citizens?
Fire watching had now been introduced and employees became responsible for detecting fires
in their buildings. My father had to spend several nights a week on fire duty. Those of us who
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ventured out at night had to contend with the black out. It was almost impossible to see
anything. In the winter houses and factories burnt a very sub-standard coal called nutty slack, this resulted in a sulphurous gas called smog. It was far from pleasant when this was added to fog and the blackout. Despite the London Blitz being very well documented I feel it is necessary to list a few of the instances in order to show the result of some of these raids.
On the 7th September 1940 300 bombers accompanied by over 600 fighters bombed the London docks and central London, starting over 1,000 individual fires and causing a considerable amount of
damage; 430 people were killed and over a thousand seriously injured. The fires were clearly visible by me in Lewisham.
17th September Marble Arch underground station received a direct hit, killing 17 and injuring
many others. By mid October well over 250,000 Londoners had been made homeless.
11th January 1941 the Bank underground station received a direct hit and killed 117 and
left hundreds seriously injured.
19th March 500 bombers accompanied by a large number of fighters attacked the docks and central London. 750 were killed and over 1,000 injured.
16th April 685 bombers accompanied by 700 plus fighters dropped a large number of high
explosive bombs and incendiaries causing more than 2,000 individual fires. Over 1,000 were killed and many more seriously injured. The all clear sounded at 6 am on Sunday morning when over 700 acres of London had suffered severe bomb damage, with 11,000 homes destroyed or badly damaged.
The bombing had extended as far as Lewisham, Deptford and Croydon. Main line railway stations had been put out of action, including Waterloo and thousands of streets made impassable. Over 600 water mains were broken and the supply of gas and electricity badly disrupted. Telephone lines were broken, adding to the communication problems of essential services. The last fires were finally extinguished four days later. We could clearly see the fires at the docks from Lewisham and heard the sound of bombs dropping ever closer. The Germans seemed to proceed unhindered with little anti aircraft fire or the presence of any of our night fighters. Next day we discovered more wrecked and damaged houses close to where we lived. It took several weeks before services were back to some normality. Fortunately there were few follow-up raids to disrupt the necessary repair and salvage operations.
Although the above lists only some of the serious events even a single person killed would cause hurt and despair to the family affected. During every raid I wondered if I would survive or if I should suffer a serious injury, a loss of a limb or eyesight.
After the raid, those of us not directly affected just carried on as usual. Somehow we were grateful to still be alive and determined to make the most of the next day, after all what else could we do? I think most of us felt that if we could only survive the present day, tomorrow had to be better or perhaps the next day! The last thing we wanted was for the Germans to win. We were pleased every time we heard our bombers had raided Germany, but concerned to hear of our inevitable losses.
The Churchill broadcasts helped tremendously by strengthening our morale. The radio and newspapers also helped by concentrating on whatever good news they could find and censoring the bad. We were certainly not enjoying life and wondering just how much more we could take when suddenly Hitler decided to turn his attention towards attacking Russia, in order to gain access to its oil, mineral and other resources. Hitler expected it to be a quick victory and it nearly was until the Russian winter took a hand. While this saw the end of the concentrated raids, the bombing of civilians still continued.
During the Blitz my father and his crew were busy dealing with incendiaries, while the experts dealt with the unexploded high explosives, sometimes with tragic results. We owed a lot to them
and many others, especially the firemen and ambulance drivers who regularly risked their lives and to the women who were seen driving the rescue vehicles and helping in so many other ways. In one
of the raids, just before Christmas, I lost a cousin Olive who was an ambulance driver. It was
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amazing that so many people were ready to risk their lives while helping others, the events certainly brought out the best in people.
The Italians had a formidable navy based at Taranto, in the Mediterranean and on our navy decided it was time to do something about it in what has become known as the Battle of Taranto.
On the night of 11/12th November 1940 our Royal Navy launched the first all-aircraft ship-to-ship naval attack in history, flying a small number of obsolescent Fairy Swordfish biplane torpedo bombers from an aircraft carrier, the HMS Illustrious.
The first wave of 12 aircraft left Illustrious just before 21:00 hours on 11th November 1940, followed by a second wave of nine about 90 minutes later. Of the second wave, one turned back
with a problem with its auxiliary fuel tank and another launched 20 minutes late following
emergency repairs to damage from a minor taxiing accident. We lost two aircraft shot down.
The devastation wrought by the British carrier-launched aircraft on the large Italian warships was the beginning of the rise of the power of naval aviation, over the big guns of battleships and was subsequently copied by the Japanese on Pearl Harbour. The Italian fleet lost about half its strength in one night, and the next day the Italians transferred its undamaged ships from Taranto to Naples to protect them from similar attacks. This was news we badly needed to hear!
Fairy Swordfish
In April 1941 Germany launched their African offensive and invaded Yugoslavia and Greece. Then on the 24th May we heard that our most famous capital ship, HMS Hood had been sunk during an engagement with the German battleship, Bismarck. The Hood had a crew of over 1,700 and only 3 survived, we couldn’t believe it! Later we heard that Winston Churchill ordered the Bismarck to be sunk at all costs and on the 27th May it was! Nevertheless we couldn’t help wondering what was wrong with our warships. We knew our Navy was doing an excellent job protecting our merchant ships from submarine attacks, but when faced with the more modern German surface ships and attacks from the air the results were not so encouraging.
Now a teenager I was well aware that my schooling was seriously lacking, although by experience I had learnt about the things that really mattered, the help and friendship of others when most needed. Wealth and status meant little in an ir raid we were all equal, just people trying to survive.
In May 1941, aged 14, I had finished my three years at SELTI and went to work at the Redwing Aircraft Company in Croydon. I was shown how to rivet fuel tanks for Wellington bombers, but the interest did not last long. I sought something more interesting and, on the 17th June, joined the No.1 Maintenance Unit and Barrage Balloon Centre at RAF Kidbrooke as a Trade Lad, on a seven year mechanical engineering apprenticeship. This was also the home of the RAF Skyrockets Dance Orchestra conducted by Paul Fenhoulet and my introduction to dance and swing music.
If I remember correctly I started work at 7.30 until 5.30 and on Saturdays until 12.30, to complete a 50 hour week. We had a ten minute break in the morning and afternoon where we were allowed to sit down. I remember my wage was 17shillings and sixpence (85 p). I worked with a
Page 13
Rolls Royce fitter who had recently returned from fighting in Africa. He had been with the 8th army as a gunner in a tank and had suffered ear trouble. When told he had Gunner’s Ear he was puzzled as he thought the doctor had said Gonorrhoea! Our job was to repair damaged Merlin aero engines.
Being a reasonable distance from where I lived meant that I could cycle to work; this in itself could be quite eventful, as I remember arriving at work in a very dishevelled state after cycling into a recently created bomb crater. Cycle and car lamps had to be hooded to prevent any light escaping upwards; unfortunately this also prevented most of the light reaching the ground!
On the 22nd June 1941 Germany invaded Russia. June also saw the start of clothes rationing and the utility system for retail goods. In November, unmarried women aged 20 to 30 were conscripted into the services or other war work. By mid 1943 most single women, between the ages of
20 and 40 were conscripted into the forces or industry. My uncle Reg had to report for work in the
building and repair industry, this meant that he was away from home for considerable periods, his wife Ethel was detailed to work in the local laundry. Apart from young men away in the services we now had families broken up by older members being detailed to join various civilian services on war work. While not affecting my parents or me directly, it did add another concern.
By the end of the year food had become a major problem and we were all feeling the effects of
rationing, this had begun in January 1940. We had been issued with a food ration card and had to
register to buy food from a specific shop. The shop was then issued with the relevant amount
of food for the number of registered customers. However, as food was in short supply, the shops often did not receive enough for all their customers. News that a delivery had arrived at the shop
spread fast and long queues soon formed as everyone was keen to get their share before it was all
sold.
Each person’s weekly allowance was 4 oz of bacon and ham, 2 oz of butter and 8 oz of sugar. In March meat was added to the value of 1 shilling and 6 pence (6p) and. over the next two years other foods added including 1 fresh egg, 1 packet of dried eggs every 4 weeks, 4oz of margarine, 2 oz of cheese, 2 oz of tea, three pints of milk, 1 pound of jam every eight weeks and12 oz of sweets every four weeks.
Other foods rationed between 1940 and 1942 included dried fruit, canned fruit, rice, cooking fat, biscuits and breakfast cereals, while some foods such as potatoes, onions and fish were not rationed but difficult to obtain. Fresh fruit was also in short supply but was not rationed. Only fruit which could be grown in Britain, such as apples, pears, raspberries, blackberries and strawberries were sometimes available. Imported fruit such as bananas, oranges and peaches were not available in the shops.
Clothes and furnishings were rationed on a points system, in1943 we were each allowed 66 points a year, reduced to 48 in 1942, 36 in ’43 and 24 by the end of the war. A man’s overcoat took 18 coupons, a suit 26 and shoes 9, a woman’s simple dress took 11 and her shoes 7. Children aged 14 to16 got 20 more coupons. However we had a flourishing black market run by “spivs” who managed to obtain most things to be sold at an inflated price.
As well as food and clothing many other items were in short supply. A utility range of household furniture was introduced. The items were plain, functional and hard-wearing, but the only option for people who had lost their homes in the bombing and for newly married couples setting up their first home.
Canteen food was not very appetizing and I remember frequently feeling very uncomfortable after a cooked meal, so mostly stuck to salads or things that I could recognise. In restaurants a meal was limited to five shillings (25p) and could not have more than three courses; with meat and fish unable to be served at the same sitting.
Establishments known as British Restaurants appeared and were run by local authorities, who set them up in schools and church halls, intended as a temporary emergency system for feeding those who had been bombed out. By mid 1941 the London County Council was operating 200 of these restaurants and from 1942 to 1944 there were around 2,000 of them open to anybody. They
Page 14
proved very popular and greatly appreciated as a three course meal cost only nine pence (4p in new money).When I used them I had no complaints and found the meal better than some others I had experienced.
Despite the end of the blitz raids by German bombers and fighter bombers continued to cause damage and disruption. Barely a day or night passed without the sound of an air raid warning.
After two years at Kidbrooke I realised that at the end of a seven year apprenticeship the best I could hope for was to end up as a competent fitter, not what I wanted. Somehow I managed to get an interview with the station commander, Wing Commander Clapp, to ask if it would be possible to have my apprenticeship transferred to an aircraft Company, I was 16 at the time! Surprisingly he found time to talk with me and agreed to consider a transfer if I could find an aircraft company to take me. As a result in June 1943, my apprenticeship was transferred to the famous de Havilland Aircraft Company and after a year training in their technical school started work in their engine division at Edgware. The journey from my home in Lewisham was daunting to say the least, Lewisham to London Bridge station, then underground to Edgware followed by a fifteen minute walk to their works at Stag Lane, to clock in at 7.30 am.
I remember people sleeping on the underground platforms and the smell; there were no proper toilets, the smoke filled railway carriages with the windows heavily taped and shut during the blackout, the crowded trains and delays caused by enemy action, the smog and frequently travelling next to somebody being sick, this was all part of the war as I remember it! Despite the problems of getting to work we, apart from office staff, had to clock in and five minutes after starting time the
clock cards would be removed. After that you had to ask the foreman for permission to start work and pay was then deducted per quarter of an hour.
.
Sleeping in the underground stations
I joined the Air Training Corp shortly after it was formed and particularly enjoyed the weeks spent at RAF airfields. For a week we became part of the airfield’s wartime routine, hopeful for a
chance of a flight. During my stay in the ATC I had visited three RAF airfields, at Odiham, Wing and Holmsley South, enjoying flights in six aircraft, a Cygnet, Lysander, Wellington, Ventura, Tiger Moth and Dakota. .
The Commanding Officer at Wing was Wing Commander Lionel Van Praag, a speedway rider I remembered from the pre-war days when I had regularly visited the New Cross Speedway with my father. Lionel won the Speedway World Championship in 1936 riding against Eric Langton and I can still remember the event. Many years later I met a WAAF officer who in 1942 was stationed at Wing, she was surprised that I had even heard of Wing let alone knew the Station Commander’s name!
In March 1941 a new shelter appeared, the Morrison. This was a steel structure designed to hold 2 to 3 people lying down. It had a thick steel roof with open wire sides and intended to be used as a
table. It was not very popular and could be a death-trap if the building collapsed on it. Figures
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revealed that in November 1940 the majority of Londoners were not using special shelters, 27% used the Anderson, 9% public shelters and 4% used the tube stations the rest, including me, slept in their homes.
On December 7th 1941 Japan bombed Pearl Harbour and at last America was forced into the war. A few days later, on the 10th December, we were shocked to hear that Japanese aircraft had sunk two of our capital ships, our latest battleship the “Prince of Wales” and our battle cruiser “Repulse”, few of the crew were saved. Would the bad news never end?
The first US infantry troops of around four thousand men arrived in Britain on January 26th, 1942 and eventually swelled to more than 1.5 million. We began to see the first of the Americans
and I was not particularly keen on what I saw. To me they appeared brash and cocky, wore smart
uniforms and had plenty of money to spend. It was obvious that they had not just endured three years of war! Not surprisingly they were just what our girls wanted; with their boy friends and husbands away they were not concerned at being seen in the arms of the GI’s. It may be significant that the Ministry of Health launched a campaign to warn the public against Venereal Disease shortly after the GI’s arrived!
Prince of Wales Crew 1,600 plus Repulse Crew 1,000 plus
Commissioned 19th January 1941
Venereal disease I am sure was news to most of us, it certainly was to me. My main contact with girls had been in the factories and I was not impressed. These were girls who had been conscripted for war work and away from home for the first time. Sex seemed to be their main topic and they delighted in embarrassing young apprentices with suggestive talk and displays of naked flesh.
With the shortage of suitable male partners many of the girls had apparently formed liaisons with other females and appeared not to be concerned when caught in comprising positions. Some men working in the factories had recently returned from our Forces and were not impressed to see how their wives might have behaved when they were away. I was reassured to learn that my colleagues also felt uncomfortable when in the company of these girls, especially when serving time in the work shops.
It may have been noticed that I have not mentioned our Army apart from their evacuation from Dunkirk. The simple reason s is that there was very little good news to report and to make matters worse, on the 15th February 1942 General Percival surrendered Singapore to the Japanese in what has been described as the worst and largest capitulation in British history.
In only seven days of fighting Singapore was surrendered and about. 80,000 of our troops joined the 50,000 British, Australian and Indian troops already captured during the disastrous Malayan Campaign. The Japanese treated our troops with appalling cruelty and inhumanity, many dying in captivity. Churchill was not amused and confirmed our opinion that something was seriously wrong with our generals.
October 1942, at last we had the prospect of good news when General Montgomery commenced the greatest bombardment in history with a surprise attack on the German army in North Africa,
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This started on the evening of 23rd October and, together with the RAF, eventually resulted in the end of Rommel’s African Campaign.
Sometime in November, about 3 o’clock in the morning, I remember it was cold and raining, our house at 43 Overcliff Road, Lewisham received a direct hit. My Aunt Ethel and Uncle Reg were staying with us as their flat in nearby Brockley had been badly damaged. We prepared for bed soon after listening to the 9 o’clock news, the siren had already sounded and we could hear the usual noise of aircraft, anti-aircraft guns and bombs dropping in the distance. We tried to sleep in old clothes on wooden planks covered by a blanket. The planks were placed both sides of the cellar accommodating the five of us. With a supply of coal at the far end of the cellar the air was far from fresh. At the time we were hit, although I was awake (the noise of an air raid did not encourage
sleep) I cannot remember hearing the actual explosion of the bomb, but became aware that I was
suddenly in darkness and covered in dust and rubble. It was completely dark, I heard my father calling to hear if we were all right and we all replied saying we were. Evidently both my mother and aunt said that they couldn’t move because they were covered in debris. I was still lying on the wooden planks but found it was difficult to move and breathe because of the dust and rubble.
My uncle had been in the garden to have a smoke and said he clearly remembered hearing the sound of bombs dropping and then reaching the top of the cellar stairs, but little else. He landed on top of my father. My father was asking us to turn off the gas. Something was lying on my legs and I discovered it was the gas meter. I could smell gas and hear water running but was disorientated and couldn’t find the tap to turn off the gas.
I cannot remember how long we lay there, but the next thing I remember was hearing somebody asking if we were all right. A torch shone and soon people were lifting us out. We stood in a rubble
strewn road, in the wet and darkness, but could not see our house! Luckily apart from some cuts and bruises we were all in one piece. I remember feeling thankful that we were all alive but feeling very cold, wet and dirty. There seemed to be a lot of people speaking and helping us and the next thing I remember was being taken to a disused snooker hall in nearby Catford, which was being used as a rescue centre. My memory is vague as to what exactly happened next, but somehow we ended up with a mug of hot tea and clean dry clothes.
My next memory is going back with my father to see what could be rescued. I was surprised to see our house was just a heap of rubble, the house and the adjoining house, number 45 had just gone! Where our garden should have been was a big hole. No chickens, tortoise or dog. We could not even discover the cellar door or the stairs leading to the cellar. How we had survived was incredible, there was nothing left to save!
My uncle said he believed my dog was in the garden with him but despite hoping that somehow he had survived we never saw him again. It was like losing a member of my family and somehow I felt responsible.
A lot of our elderly neighbours had moved into the country and their empty houses were commandeered by the council. We were given one of these houses as temporary accommodation, but we did not realise how temporary it was going to be! A week later a bomb had fallen nearby and the house was declared unsafe. We were then given another house, where we managed to stay for the rest of the war, despite replacing windows and other damage.
During the Blitz and early part of the war we listened to the radio which featured plenty of dance music and variety shows, but I cannot remember hearing any American bands, including Glen Miller. My first introduction to Glen Miller was probably at the cinema. Miller and his band appeared in two Twentieth Century Fox films, in 1941's Sun Valley Serenade and 1942's Orchestra Wives. I remember buying a 78 rpm recording of Joe Loss playing In the Mood which became a UK’s best seller, but this was probably after the Blitz. At the beginning of the war, all cinemas were main introduction to American bands came from listening to radio broadcasts from the American however this did not last very long and most cinemas had re- opened by the time of the Blitz. My
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main introduction to American bands came from listening to radio broadcasts from the American Forces Network; however this didn’t start until July 4th, 1943.
Air raids continued to have an effect on our lives. The raids were being carried out mostly by fighter bombers. These came in very fast and frequently without warning. At 12.30 on Wednesday afternoon of the 20th January 1943, several Focke Wulf 190’s fighter bombers came in fast and low (the balloon barrage was down) and without warning began machine gunning the streets in Lewisham. Many people reported near misses, including my father who was coming home for lunch. As the aircraft flew overhead machine gun bullets hit the houses and streets. My father said that he was aware of the sudden noise of the aircraft but they flashed past too quickly to see much else. They eventually dropped their bombs on a school at Sangley Road, Catford, killing 38 children and 6 teachers. 60 children were seriously injured. The air raids and killing had not stopped with the Blitz.
I recently read in a local newspaper of eye-witness accounts of how the Germans had especially
targeted the school and people remembering seeing the pilots waving as they flew overhead! One woman who was having her hair done heard the noise of the aircraft and rushed outside to see the Germans circling and targeting the children in the playground.
The school was in a built up area and the aircraft were flying very low at over 300 mph, which is 440 feet per second, so the aircraft would have been visible for only a fraction of a second, assuming you were looking in the right direction at the time. It makes no sense that the pilots would risk their lives just to target a school, despite how we felt about them at the time. While these reports may make interesting reading I don’t see the value in reporting incidences that obviously cannot be true.
The result of five years bombing was to be seen everywhere. While the streets were cleaned, nothing could be done to hide the damaged and demolished buildings. On the 3rd March 1943 there occurred the greatest loss of life in one single incident. On that day there had been 10 raids on London and at 8.17 pm the alert sounded at Bethnel Green. In the tube station 500 people were already installed. It was raining and the entrance to the station dimly lit with only a 25 watt bulb. The stairs were wet and slippery. A large number of people were approaching the station when the local “Z” anti-aircraft battalion fired 60 rockets. The noise was deafening and caused an estimated 1,500 people to surge towards the entrance to the station. Somebody slipped and people behind fell down the stairs crushing those below. This resulted in 173 people being killed, including 62 children. There were also a large number of serious injuries.
6th June1944 was D day when we landed back in France. At last the end of the war appeared in sight. By this time we were really feeling the effects of the war, the shortage of food, clothing, loss of loved ones, the long working hours with little time for relaxation and the uncertainty as to what the future would hold. Would this end in disaster? Historians are fortunate in that they are able to review events knowing the result, whereas those actually living the event did not. Unfortunately many of today’s representations of events in the war do not portray them as I and other veterans, remember.
While we were hoping that the war would soon be over we were in for another shock. On
June 13th 1944 the first of Hitler’s revenge weapons hit London, landing at Hackney and killing six. The V1 flying bomb (Doodlebug) carried one ton of high explosive and no pilot. It flew at about 350 mph. By the end of August over 3,000 had been launched with 500 hitting the South East of England and London. They landed at any time, day or night. Eventually the flying bombs were intercepted by our fighters, anti-aircraft guns and barrage balloons, the launching sites receiving the attention of our bombers.
I am disgusted how some today are all too ready to criticise the supreme effort made by the bomber arm of our air force. Flying in a British bomber during World War Two was one of the most dangerous jobs imaginable. 55,000 aircrew died during the war with many more taken prisoner, the highest loss rate of any major branch of the British armed forces. Yet there is no official campaign
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medal commemorating the sacrifices of these men. It is seldom mentioned that we lost over 2,000 American and British air crew during the bombing the launch and development sites of the V weapons. Those bombs which did get through caused a tremendous amount of blast damage. We listened for the V1’s engine to stop and knew that we had only seconds to wait for the explosion. When the sites were overrun the flying bombs were launched from the air by Heinkel bombers.
The flying bombs killed 8,938 with an estimated 25,000 seriously injured. Lewisham came third on the list of hits with 114; Croydon came top of the list with l4l and Wandsworth second with 122.
The original German plan was to launch 200 bombs an hour, but the most they ever achieved was 200 a day, but this was enough to severely dent our morale! People were leaving London in huge numbers. In mid July 1944 15,000 were estimated to be leaving the main London stations a day! Between 1.5 and 2 million people had left during the summer, which had been particularly wet and cold. Many businesses and Civil Service departments were evacuated and the absence of people
became noticeable, especially to those having to travel through London. Some of the worst incidents
occurred in South East London, close to Lewisham where I lived. I recall one event which occurred on my mother’s shopping day.
Friday the 28th July at 9.41 a V1 bomb landed at the Lewisham market, killing 59 with 124 seriously injured. The resulting blast destroyed and badly damaged over a hundred shops, flats and houses. It came as a great shock to see so much damage where our local shopping centre had once been. Everybody seemed to know somebody who had either been killed or seriously wounded.
My mother went shopping as usual in the afternoon, unaware that her shopping centre had been
demolished. She didn’t do much shopping that day and had a harrowing story to tell when I arrived home in the evening.
Lewisham market after being hit by a flying bomb on the 28th
July 1944
8th September 1944 the first V2 rocket landed in Chiswick, killing 3 with 17 injured. The
rocket hit at about 3000 mph, with no warning. It carried a ton of high explosive and the impact caused a deep penetration. The effect was like a mini earthquake, with damage being recorded up to a quarter of a mile away.
The high death rate was mainly caused by the lack of any warning. Some of the worst tragedies again occurring in South East London, many close to where I lived.
Over 500 were killed and many more injured in just 14 instances, with the worst one occurring at New Cross on the 15th November, when a rocket landed on a Woolworths store killing 173 and
leaving many more seriously injured. I lost another cousin, Joyce.
27th March 1944 was the last day of the rocket attacks, unfortunately one of the final rockets
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fell on Hughes Mansions, in Vallence Road, Stepney, killing 134 and seriously injuring many
others. The last rocket fell in Orpington on the same day and the final flying bomb in
Swanscombe the next day. The intention of the V weapons was to kill and wound civilians in the hope that it would destroy their morale, but it didn’t happen and future generations should realise this and that they owe their freedom to this generation.
The later attacks affected us even more; because they were unexpected and by this time we were feeling very exhausted and thinking the war would never end, and then on the 30th April we heard that Hitler had committed suicide.
On the 7th May 1945 Hitler's successor, Admiral Donitz, offered an unconditional surrender to the allies and on the 8th May we celebrated Victory in Europe day. On Monday the 7th May 1945 Germany finally surrendered and at last the European war was over. We officially celebrated victory with a holiday on the following day, called Victory in Europe day or VE day. What happened on
this particular day? Did we all get drunk and dance around merrily? I saw little evidence of that. It
is true that there were thanksgiving services, victory salutes and impromptu street concerts, but the majority of us were just thankful that we had survived physically uninjured.
Pierre Clostermann, a French pilot who had flown from Biggin Hill, wrote “That evening the Mess was like some extraordinary vigil over a corpse. The pilots were slumped in their chairs; no one spoke a word or sang anything. Round about eleven o’clock someone switched on the wireless and we listened to some music.”
Lieutenant Colonel H.W.L. Nichols wrote from Germany “We were all taken by surprise when
the surrender was announced on the wireless, as we had no hint of it coming so soon. It was a bit of an anti-climax though and there was no excitement in the mess. We trooped into the bar had a drink on the strength of it and were all in bed by 10.30”. Major A.J.Forest also wrote from Germany “inwardly I felt melancholic, I wanted quiet to absorb this overwhelming blessing, the restoration of peace after six years of war and above all to be alone”
I spent VE day with my parents and had difficulty in accepting that the war was over and would no longer suffer the apprehension felt upon hearing the sound of an air raid warning. Next day we went back to work and found that little had changed and then realised that the war would not finally be over until Japan had surrendered. It looked as if the war with Japan would be hard fought and an eventual end to the war a long way off.
Six de Havilland Students, photographed for the DH magazine
I am standing top left. The aircraft is an Avro Lincoln.
Early in 1945 I had been transferred to work at Hatfield, promoted from a trade apprentice to an aeronautical student. This meant that I could now continue my training in their design offices; it also meant a considerable increase in travelling time, as I was still living in Lewisham. The factory working week was 50 hours including Saturday mornings, reduced to 48 for senior staff and office
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workers. As a student I was now expected to aim towards becoming a member of a professional body such as the Royal Aeronautical Society. To do this I had to attend evening classes, preferably at Hatfield. After much discussion I was allowed to enrol back at my old school, the South East London Technical Institute, in order to study for the Higher National Certificate in mechanical and structural engineering, three nights a week!
It was a rush to get back from Hatfield in time to start evening classes at 6.30 pm; however I cannot remember having any time off due to stress or illness. It was later shown that despite the
horrendous working conditions very few days were lost due to sickness or other causes. If we were lucky we had a whole week off for a holiday, which if I remember correctly, was unpaid. I cannot As far as I was concerned the war might be over but nothing much changed, the daily chore was just the same. Food and other materials were still in short supply and rationing still continued. Thr remember either my family or me actually having a holiday during the war.
As far as I was concerned the war might be over but nothing much changed, the daily chore was
just the same. Food and other materials were still in short supply and rationing still continued. The war with Japan was still going on but seemed too distant to be of particular concern until the 6th of
August 1945, when we became aware of a devastating new weapon called the atom bomb. The
United States had dropped an atom bomb on Hiroshima causing extensive damage and loss of life.
The Americans gave the Japanese an offer to surrender but the Japanese generals refused and so on the 9th of August the US dropped a second atom bomb, this time on Nagasaki.
The Japanese government then realized that they had little alternative but to immediately consider a surrender. On the 14th August the Japanese unconditionally surrendered to the allies and on the 2nd of September 1945 the U.S. General Douglas Mac Arthur accepted Japan's surrender thus formally ending the Second World War
Subsequently historians have reviewed the use of this deadly weapon forgetting that we were still at war. Without employing this weapon there can be no doubt that the Japanese would have continued with their horrendous form of unconditional warfare, with death seen as an act of heroism. This would have cost the lives of many more Americans and allied troops. If the Germans or Japanese had such a weapon do these historians really believe they would have hesitated before using it? Who knows what might have happened if the war had continued and Germany or Japan had been allowed to become the first to use an atomic weapon.
One of the last of our Bomber Command raids was on the German city of Dresden. Many historians have managed to convince our younger generation that we had committed a horrendous crime against innocent civilians. They forget that we were still at war having experienced five years of indiscriminate German raids on our cities, with Hitler promising even more deadly attacks. We rejoiced when we heard our bombers had caused maximum damage to their German cities, letting them experience what it was like to be on the receiving end of bombs they had enjoyed dropping on us.
The result of reviewing this one raid on a German city is that the tremendous sacrifice made by our bomber boys during the war has been forgotten. Instead of being considered heroes they have been unjustly vilified, but was the Dresden raid justified? I recently came across a thist statement written by a German scientist:
“Dresden was not simply a cultural centre, there were factories there manufacturing weapons and equipment for the Nazi war effort. To produce an atom bomb a supply of heavy water is needed and
the main source had already been destroyed in Norway. There is sufficient evidence that the Nazis
were producing heavy water in the centre of Dresden, under the impression that because of the large civilian population it would not be bombed. Dresden was also an important rail base for the Nazis to
send troops and equipment to the front and so would be considered an important war target.”
I have also read that right up to his suicide on April 30th 1945 Hitler was still hoping for news that much of the evidence being destroyed in the latter stages of the war, we cannot be certain just how
Page 21
advanced the Germans were towards obtaining such a weapon and did the raids on Dresden on the 13/15th February finally convince him that this was not going the happen?
We will never know if this was true, but if it was suspected that Dresden contained such an important war target then it was right to be attacked. While historians argue that with Germany’s surrender only weeks away we should not have bombed the city. The truth is that I, and probably most of us, did not know the end of the war was only weeks away and felt as though it would go on for ever.
Demobilisation began on the18th June 1945. Bread was rationed after the war, on the 21st July 1946, and food rationing did not finally end until July 1954.
At the end of the war I was aged 18 and with three years of my apprenticeship to complete had enjoyed very little social life. I had had some contact with factory girls but had not been impressed. I
was thankful that I had not suffered any injuries nor lost any of my close family, although my brother
had lost his wife.
During my brother’s stay in South Africa he had married the daughter of the owner of a well known Cape Town newspaper, Cape Argus and on his return to the UK he had to leave without her; however some months later she managed to get a passage on a merchant ship but never arrived. My brother received a telegram to say she had become ill on the voyage and had subsequently died and been buried at sea. It was a sad occasion for me to accompany my brother to Southampton to collect her things, which included presents for us.
In May 1944 there were nearly two million American service men over here, plus
Canadians and other nationalities. The American GIs had plenty of money to spend (the ordinary GIs earning five times more than a British private) and a smart uniform, their accent reminding us of the glamour of Hollywood films. They had gum and candy, silk stockings, plenty of cigarettes and were generally very polite. What else did a lonely girl need? As a result these friendships produced a lot of “Dear John” letters written to their husbands and fiancés overseas. Some of our returning soldiers (over 265,000 had been killed) did not find the expected welcoming homecoming.
To become pregnant out of marriage was considered a very serious breach of family life. I have had personal experience of this when my cousin became pregnant by her American boy friend and was asked to leave home. Despite subsequently keeping in touch with my uncle I never found out what happened to her.
By the end of 1945 the number of divorces had reached 25,000, compared with less than
8,500 in1938. By the end of the war over 100,000 British girls had married American and Dominion servicemen. The number of illegitimate births had reached 64,000 by the end of the war. Venereal disease had become a major concern and there was an added problem of relationships ceasing, when their lovers had to return overseas, some to their wives! The end of the war certainly raised many problems. To many the peace was going to prove a very difficult time!
Perhaps the reader can now see why dressing up in war time clothes, sitting in an
Anderson shelter and listening to a recording of bombs falling has little to do with the reality of my war. One important ingredient missing is how we felt at the time, personal memories which can only be recalled by those that were present at the time. For some the memory may be of a particular instance which is very painful to recall, for me it was part of my teenage experience.
I was too young to do any fighting, but at least I had survived and with my war years still
reasonably clear in my memory have been able to document some of my wartime memories.
Hopefully this recollection will do a little to help; if only to cause the reader to reflect that there was more to the war than can be depicted by sitting in an Anderson shelter. A famous
novelist, J.B.Priestly wrote, “The British were absolutely at their best in the Second World
War. They were never so good in my lifetime before it, and I’m sorry to say that they’ve never been so good after it”
I am very grateful that my computer and reference books have allowed me to quickly
check facts and figures which the passing years may well have caused my memory to distort.
Page 22
Having asked my wife to read this, in order to correct any grammatical and spelling mistakes, she said it was a noble effort, but what was the purpose, who would be interested? I had no idea, I just felt the need to record the war as I remembered it and to express my concern at some of the inaccuracies being displayed in recent television programmes and films. I have no problems with most documentaries; they are generally excellent, especially those of the Great War.
When I see pictures of the terrible trench war I think of my father. He had joined as an
infantry man at the beginning of the war in 1914 and was present at some of the famous battles. However I showed little interest in hearing about his wartime experiences, after all to me it was ancient history! Now I deeply regret the lost opportunity. His war ended on November1918 with a horrifying casualty rate of 35.8 %. But just a few years later he must have been well aware that
another war was a distinct possibility. I can now imagine how he st have felt, with memories of his
war still very fresh in his mind! I also think about the problems faced by my parents and others,
in trying to look after their families.
After the war we learnt that Hitler had not approved any plans for an invasion of the British Isles. None of the plans submitted were considered feasible, especially with the Royal Navy still intact a seaborne invasion was out of the question. But Hitler assumed invasion
would not be necessary, based on what had happened in Europe. After a short blitz on the British civilian population he assumed we would soon sue for peace, especially following the defeat and evacuation of our troops at Dunkirk. Most thought it would be a matter of weeks before Britain admitted defeat, including America but they had not reckoned with the courage of our youngsters in the Royal Air force and the character of the British people, led by our exceptional Prime Minister, Winston Churchill.
The war was certainly a defining moment in my teenage life, having come so close to being a witness to the end of the British Empire.
Alan Mann
June 2008
Revised February 2017
I acknowledge that without a computer and access to the Web for additional information and pictures, my teenage memories of the war would have remained just memories.
Alan
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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My recollections of the War
Description
An account of the resource
Reminisces about pre-war and early war days as a schoolboy in Lewisham. Recalls events at the beginning of the war. Includes photographs of aircraft and naval ships. Continues with history of events through the war's early years including conscription, German actions in Europe, battle of France, Dunkirk and the battle of Britain. Included detailed accounts of German air force attacks. Continues with account of the Blitz, details of bomb shelters and casualties. Includes photograph of Hitler and Churchill. Describes Royal Navy attack on Taranto and includes photograph of Swordfish. Continues with German offensives in North Africa and the Balkans. Mentions his job at the Redwing Aircraft Company and joining No 1 Maintenance Unit and Barrage Balloon Centre at RAF Kidbrooke as an apprentice. Continues with more war history and details of rationing. In 1943 transferred his apprenticeship to De Havilland Aircraft Company. Discusses life during the war including bombing and people moving to the country. Mentions D-Day, V-weapons, Bomber Command operations. In 1945 was transferred to Hatfield. Goes on to describe events in 1945 and the end of the war followed by comments on American servicemen in the United Kingdom.
Creator
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Alan Mann
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2008-06
Format
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Twenty-two page printed document with colour and b/w photographs
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BMannAMannAv3
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Kent
England--London
England--Hertfordshire
England--Hatfield (Hertfordshire)
England--Herefordshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1938-05-20
1938
1939
1940
1941
1941-05
1942
1943
1944
1945
2008-06
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
bombing
childhood in wartime
firefighting
home front
Hurricane
incendiary device
Me 109
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
RAF Biggin Hill
RAF Hatfield
shelter
Spitfire
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/522/32102/BMannAMannAv5.1.pdf
2aa1618dd74bb9ce2d79a3df904ab931
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Mann, Alan
A Mann
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Mann, A
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Alan Mann (b.1926). He was an apprentice at De-Havilland during the war and experienced bombing in 1940.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Alan Mann and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-01-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
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I was born on the 4th November 1926 and had a brother 7 years older than me.
My father was a compositor for the Evening Standard, a paper owned by William Maxwell Aitken, he also owned other newspapers including the Daily Express. As Lord Beaverbrook he became a very successful Minister of Aircraft Production.
His son, Max Aitken, was a Bristol Blenheim fighter pilot with No. 601 Squadron at Biggin Hill, during the early part of the war. He reached the rank of Group Captain with 14 enemy aircraft destroyed and one shared. His awards included the Distinguished Service Order and Distinguished Flying Cross.
It was thanks to my father that I was able to develop an early interest in aircraft, ships and racing cars.
From the age of five I accompanied my father to Croydon Airport where he interviewed important arrivals; I was more interested in the aircraft!
A Handley Page W.8 twelve seat airliner.
The photograph was taken at Croydon Airport in 1932, when I was five years old. I am the
small boy in the group on the right. (Picture was taken by my father with his Kodak Brownie box camera).
These visits continued until 1939 when war was declared. I particularly remember the designs of the de Havilland Aircraft Company being ahead of the others, which mostly appeared ancient by comparison. During my later visits to Croydon I remember the Handley Page 45 Airliner, still in regular service with Imperial Airways, alongside the sleek new de Havilland Albatross.
Handley Page 45 De Havilland Albatross
I later read that around 80% of the aircraft to be seen at Croydon, pre war, were built by de Havilland and engined by Major Frank Halford. I also remember visiting Brooklands and seeing Frank Halford successfully racing his own designed and engined car.
Accompanying my Father I remember visiting the Portsmouth Navy Days and the Empire Air Days at Biggin Hill and Kenley, the last being at Biggin Hill on the 20th May 1938.
Early in 1938 I joined my new school, Brockley Grammar in Hilly Fields, in what turned
Page 2
out to be a very short time. I remember there was talk of another war with Germany culminating with the Munich Crisis in the summer of ’38, resulting in the school being evacuated to Robertsbridge, 10 miles north of Hastings. I chose not to go and was left without a permanent school until later in the year, when I joined the South East London Technical Institute on a three year engineering course.
Our Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, proclaimed he had averted another war with Germany, when he arrived at Heston Airport, on the 30th September 1938, waving a piece of paper containing Hitler’s signature, and saying that an agreement had finally been reached over problems with Hitler annexing territory on his borders.
Neville Chamberlain arriving at Heston Chamberlain waving the famous piece of
on September 30th 1938 in a American paper with Hitler’s signature
Lockheed 14 of British Airways Ltd
However this was not to be and Germany invaded Czechoslovakia on March 15th 1939. Once again Britain and France did nothing! Next Hitler began to threaten Poland and at last Chamberlain responded by saying that an attack on Poland would not be tolerated and that an attack on them would be followed by a declaration of war.
On May 22nd Italy signed a pact declaring that they would support Germany in the event of war. On the 23rd August, Russia (Stalin) signed a non- aggression pact with Germany. Thus Hitler thought he had tied up all the loose ends and was now ready to invade Poland.
On September 1st Hitler invaded Poland and we responded by saying that if Germany had not withdrawn their troops by the 3rd September, we would be at war. Again Hitler did not believe that we would do anything and so went ahead with the invasion. As a result, at 1l o’clock on Sunday the 3rd September, Neville Chamberlain announced that we were once again at war with Germany. Shortly afterwards France also declared war on Germany.
On that day I remember my family gathered around the radio listening to our Prime Minister with interest. Upon hearing his announcement there followed a stunned silence; my parents couldn’t believe that we were once again at war, just 21 years after being involved in the horrors of the last war. For me this seemed to be the culmination of events following the evacuation of my school a year earlier.
My brother Bill was twenty and serving an apprenticeship in the printing industry. Together with friends he enrolled in the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve and became a member before the year was out. I think the feeling was that they thought the war would be over very quickly and wanted a piece of the action before it was too late. My brother was the only survivor of the four that joined at that time.
I was not so sure, during the last Open Day visit to our local airfield at RAF Biggin Hill, I was aware that most of the aircraft on display
were obsolete and no match for the new German Air Force. The Hurricane was in squadron use
and a Spitfire was on show, together with a Wellington bomber, but most of the displays were performed by obsolete biplanes.
Page 3
At that time I was an avid reader of aviation magazines and couldn’t imagine a successful result of our ancient biplanes against the latest Messerschmitt monoplane fighters.
The first of our modern fighters, the Hawker Hurricane only began to enter service in December 1937; although by September 1939 nearly 500 Hurricanes had been produced, equipping 18 squadrons, including the two resident squadrons at Biggin Hill.
If we had gone to war earlier we would have been fighting Germany’s latest monoplane aircraft with obsolete biplanes and without Dowding’s invaluable early warning system.
While our defensive forces were being modernised other divisions of our Air Force were neglected. Our attacking bombers had to make do with obsolete aircraft and suffered the consequences.
When the Battle of Britain is celebrated the invaluable contribution made by our airman, flying inadequate aircraft, is largely forgotten. In fact during the Battle of Britain we lost more aircrew flying the attacking bombers than from our defensive fighters, 544 from Fighter Command, 280 from the Fleet Air Arm and 780 flying obsolete bombers.
I would like to think that the Battle of Britain was won because of the Spirit of our Nation at that time, with all involved having a part to play, including our Merchant Navy, contributing to its successful outcome.
I knew little about our Army but was impressed at what I had seen at the last Portsmouth Royal Navy Open Day. I was well aware of what could be in store for us after seeing the result of Germany’s newly formed air force bombing civilians in the Spanish civil war, a war that started on the 17th July 1936 and lasted until the 1st April 1939.
Then, within a few hours following the declaration of war, the air raid warning sounded and I expected the worst! Fortunately it was a false alarm and with some trepidation had lunch; this was how I remember the start of the war. Upon reflection the 1939 war began to affect my life with the interruption of my schooling during the summer of 1938 and continued until some time after 1954 when rationing finally finished.
Although the actual fighting finally stopped with the surrender of the Japanese on the 15th August 1945, the effects of the war was to be seen and felt long into the 1950’s. Even now I cannot forget the experience and, although fortunate in not having been a member of the fighting forces, at least able to relate to their personal experiences.
I have no doubt that the courage of those that took part in the Battle of Britain saved our country from becoming yet another member of Hitler’s Third Reich. I feel privileged when able to record the remarkable experiences of those who experienced the physical and mental horrors of war and can only apologise to those who consider such memories as unworthy subjects for modern day conversation. It only takes the sound of a Merlin engine to evoke my memories of the war, while to others it is just the sound of another engine.
While it is possible to recreate the physical symbols of war in a museum, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to invoke the spirit of the lives that once inhabitant those objects. They were real people who once lived in the environment of that time, with the daily uncertainties
of what tomorrow might bring, assuming we would still be alive to enjoy it, the food, the music, the radio, all the things that bring back memories of that period. It is these memories that add real meaning to the museum objects on display. Without memories relics just relate to another period in history.
It is perhaps unfortunate that when I hear the modern generation chattering on about their holidays and other current topics I find difficulty in maintaining any real interest, allowing my concentration to drift back to a period which is still very fresh in my memory. I then have to accept that I have become just another old bore that keeps prattling on about the war.
Alan Mann
January 2016
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
My War
Description
An account of the resource
Starts with early life and interest in aviation, including photographs of pre WW2 aircraft seen at Croydon airport. Recollects going to last open day at RAF Biggin Hill. Continues account of events of lead up to and start of the war. Writes a little about the RAF and his personal and family circumstances. Provides some thoughts on the Battle of Britain.
Creator
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Alan Mann
Date
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2016-01
Format
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Three page printed document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BMannAMannAv5
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
England--Croydon
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1926-11-04
1938
1939
1938-05-20
1938-09-30
1945
1939-09-03
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
601 Squadron
Hurricane
RAF Biggin Hill
Spitfire
Wellington
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
An00509
Description
An account of the resource
Nine items. Collection concerns a Flight Sergeant (1924 - 2018) who flew operations as a navigator and wished to remain anonymous. Contains an oral history interview as well as two biographical books and photographs. The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
This item has been redacted in order to protect the privacy of third parties.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
An00509
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Autobiography
Description
An account of the resource
An00509's autobiography. Seventeen chapters and an epilogue. Chapters 1-4 deal with early life and schooling. Chapter 5-14 the war years and 15-17 after the war.
This item is available only at the International Bomber Command Centre / University of Lincoln.
Creator
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An00509. The author wished to remain anonymous
Format
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129 page printed doument
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BAn00509An00509v1
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Conforms To
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Pending review
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Paris
Germany
Germany--Nuremberg
Great Britain
England--Devon
England--Barnstaple
England--Bristol
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cambridge
United States
New York (State)--New York
Canada
New Brunswick--Moncton
Québec--Montréal
Manitoba--Portage la Prairie
Manitoba--Winnipeg
England--Yorkshire
England--Harrogate
England--Staffordshire
England--Northumberland
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Lincolnshire
New York (State)
Québec
New Brunswick
England--Gloucestershire
Manitoba
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1941
1942
1944
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
aircrew
Anson
crewing up
Gee
Lancaster
navigator
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Hemswell
RAF Silverstone
RAF Turweston
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1101/11560/ARoffeyRA180830.1.mp3
9782808fa9c0889463c3ada508d99d10
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Roffey, Ronald Arthur
R Roffey
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Ronald Roffey (b. 1930). He was evacuated and remembers the bombing.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-08-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Roffey, R
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AC: This is Andrew Cowley working on behalf of IBCC. I’m interviewing Ronald Roffey at his home in Chislehurst, Kent. We are the only people present. The date is the 30th of August 2018 and it’s five past two. So, Ronald, if I can call you that —
RR: Sure.
AC: If you’d like to start me off about your family life and go on to the bombing and then on to your cousin.
RR: Right. Ok. Well, my full name is Ronald Arthur Roffey. I was born in Charlton, South East London in, on the 2nd of May 1930. I went to school in Charlton, at Junior School. And I was nine when war was declared. Just before that I went to, I was in the infant school at Maryon Park School in Charlton which was my school, and remember vividly the amount of material that was being produced on the problems that were happening in Spain in the Spanish Civil War and as a child it was quite frightening to me to see vans with loudspeakers on and big posters with children and mothers running from being bombed in Spain. So that was my pre, that was how it all happened and then of course we came along. War was declared. I remember going to be fitted with my gas mask in Maryon Park School. My school. And then of course we had the situation with evacuation. I was an evacuee. I didn’t, I wasn’t evacuated with my school. My mother’s sister had already gone to, decided to leave London because of the threat of the bombing and she, she moved to, took temporary accommodation at Torquay in South Devon. And when the situation came about my mother asking her whether I should be evacuated my aunt found my mother and I a private billet in Barton just outside Torquay and we went there during what was known as the Phoney War when we were all expecting to be bombed immediately. And for the first three months of course nothing happened. So I was down in Torquay. I went to, I lived in Barton on the outskirts of Torquay and I went to Barton Hill Road School. And my mother left me there with this, with my new parents but I wasn’t there very long. I had that I wasn’t one of these evacuees that was gone for four and half years and came back. Because I was privately situated I seem to somehow come back to London on two occasions. The first occasion I came back to London on the 7th of September 1940 when London was blitzed quite badly. I travelled all the way from Torquay on the train on my own bearing in mind I was ten. My mother met me at the barrier at Paddington Station and we got the train down to Charlton and my first memories was getting out of Charlton Station and the sky, this was in the evening, the sky was red. It was just red. And when we walked, we lived on the Woolwich Road which ran parallel with the river very close to what is now known as Charlton Riverside and all of the north bank of the, of the Thames was alight and we could see them because we lived on the Woolwich Road. There was nothing between us and the river except the factories on the southern, southern side of the river and we could see the fire, and the fires burning and the whole night sky was red. So I was back. I was back in London. I went back to school in Maryon Park School in classes that had all ages. We went one week mornings, one week afternoons. And I got to the age of eleven and I was, it was decided that I would go to Woolwich Central School. Now, Woolwich Central School was located in Bloomfield Road, Plumstead so of course I had to get the bus from Charlton. The 53 bus from Charlton to school in Plumstead. And during that, during that time I was in London we had an Anderson shelter in the garden that my father put there at the beginning of the war. Dug the hole in the garden and he dug it very deep so he had a little corridor that went down. It wasn’t half in and half out. We had a little corridor that went down with steps and I used to stay in the shelter with my grandmother, my aunt and my mum. Dad was a firewatcher. He went out dealing with the, with the incendiaries etcetera that were falling, and we were, we were in London during those terrible days when we were getting in the shelter at five in the morning, sorry seven in the evening and getting up at five in the morning and we had bombs dropping all around us. Our nearest escape apart from having all the windows and doors blown out of the house. We had a, I lived four doors from a public house called the Horse and Groom on the corner of Charlton Lane and the nearest we had was an unexploded oil bomb that fell in the garden of the pub and our Anderson shelter was adjacent by knocking on the pub door. And I can remember vividly when the all clear went at five, 5 o’clock in the morning of coming out of the shelter, going into the house and sitting down at the table in our below level of the house and a shadow on the window. And it was a policeman with his helmet and he took all the whole window up. I just saw this face with a helmet and he said, ‘Sorry, but you’ve got to get out. You’ve got an unexploded bomb in the garden at the back of your — ’ So we all had to get out. My aunt, my grandmother had a sister that lived in Upper Charlton near Shooters Hill Road near the Charlton Lido. She had a flat there and we all picked up our bits and pieces and we all decamped to her flat there and again we took shelter in Anderson shelters that were dug into the grounds of these flats near Charlton Lido. From then on I, I generated to go, I started to go back to, to Torquay. My next memory is my, my aunt who was still there found me some accommodation at another house in Barton Hill Road. Not the same house as I was at. I was with the elderly couple who mum and I were with, but she found me a house and I went down on my own and I lived in a house that a lady took me in. Her name was Coward. Mr and Mrs Coward and she had three boys of her own and she took me and another lad in. So back to the same house. Back to the same school and I stayed there. I stayed at Barton Hill Road School until [pause] Well, I can’t remember the number of months, but I was due to leave school to go to another school in Babbacombe Downs which was the, was the local Central School. But I didn’t last that long because I was back in London again. I can’t, I can’t time it. It just, I was just back in London. And of course I came back for the flying bombs. The V-1s and the V-2s. I came back to Charlton, went to and of course started to go to Woolwich Central School in Bloomfield Road. Getting the bus. And we had instructions from the headmaster that we were not to travel during air raids, but of course that was impossible with flying bombs because you didn’t know when they were coming. So I get on the number 53 bus and by the time I’d got to Plumstead the warning had gone several times and invariably I always arrived at school during a, [laughs] during a warning but nevertheless we soldiered on. It was full time school there. We then moved on to the V-2s which were a little more lethal, and my experience there was one day we were, by the way it was full time. It wasn’t morning or afternoons. We were back to full time school by this time because we were getting towards the end of the war although we didn’t know that at the time and we were all in the playground and a rocket fell on the Lord Bloomfield which was a pub at the top of, on the estate at the top of the Bloomfield Road. It fell behind. And of course we didn’t know anything except it just went bang and all the glass in the school came out and we were in the yard playing. Fortunately none of us was hurt but we were all, there was glass everywhere. And that was my experience of World War Two. I finished school when I was seventeen. Still at Bloomfield Road.
AC: Did [coughs] did you have any thoughts when you were being bombed about who was doing it and what the British were doing in the way of bombing?
RR: No. Not really. I knew it was the Germans of course. And, but as far as the other things that were going on that never came in to, never came into my thoughts at all. I was more concerned in getting out the shelter, getting to school, coming home and just getting on with my own life. No. I never thought about what we were doing. Except that of course all the flak and the guns and God knows what but no.
AC: Ok. So, perhaps we can go on to your cousin Richard Stanley Bastick.
RR: Yes.
AC: What can you tell me about him.
RR: I was nine when war broke out. My, just very briefly before I do that my, my father was one of ten and it was a very loose family. Lots of families in those days were quite close but my father’s family was quite unclose if that’s the right expression. He kept in touch with some of his brothers and, but he didn’t keep in touch with all of them so not, I didn’t know many of them, but I did know Richard. Richard’s mum. Rose Lilian was the girl in the, my father’s family. My father was the youngest son so I think Rose because she was the only surviving daughter took, I suppose took my dad under her wing because he was her youngest brother and he kept in touch with her. I was nine, Richard was nine years older than me. So of course I never ever met him. I heard about him briefly when my dad got in touch with his sister and she said, ‘Oh, Dick’s gone off,’ Blah blah blah. And it was only what I heard from mum and dad talking at the table because I was just a kid. You know. And I thought oh Richard’s going into the forces. Full stop. So I never really met him. He came, he came within my orbit if you like much later. I, I went to, I was, I met my wife my present wife, my current wife when I was, left school at seventeen and went to work in London. And we married in 1953 and in the few years and I can’t remember exactly but in the few years before we got married we were engaged for three years. So I knew, Joan and I were going together when I was twenty. And it was during that time just before I was twenty and just after I was twenty that my father and mother took me to Richard’s mum Rose where she lived in Belford Grove, Woolwich. And it was on one of those visits that obviously after Dick had been presumed killed, missing and Auntie Rose as I knew her of course was terribly, terribly down. It had a very profound effect on Rose. He was her only child. Most of my father’s family had only children strangely enough and Dick was Auntie Rose’s only son. And his loss really had a profound effect on her. She turned to Ouija boards where we all sat around the table and we all put our fingers on the glass and it told, it told what wanted to ask us questions. That was my first and Joan’s first introduction to that sort of thing but it really was critical for her. And when we visited her and it wasn’t often but when we visited her she had this little picture of Dick on her mantlepiece and she always tried to show me the face of the child that was in his flying jacket. She could see a child’s face in his flying jacket. He was with his crew and in front of his aircraft and she could see this child’s face and it really, whether because he was her only son and I understand from what my mum told me that she’d had several miscarriages I think she’d had trouble having, having a child, and whether that that, all that difficulty registered with her and Dick was a lot closer maybe than a mum and son I don’t know but it really was, had a profound affect and she never shook it off. She and Gordon, her husband we visited her several times and I married in 1953 and I know Rose was, said to me would I, would I like to go and live, buy her house from her because she and Gordon were thinking of moving. And it wasn’t our cup of tea but we, we sat and talked about it and we decided no we didn’t. But she then, they then moved to Battle in Sussex, East Sussex and from there on in Joan and I used to visit her and Gordon at this little bungalow they had in Battle. And we visited them twice a year until Rose died in 1970 and then Gordon died some years later. But that was my connection. All I knew. So it was I never knew Dick, never met him but through his mum I got to know him quite well.
AC: Did she tell you anything about his time in Bomber Command?
RR: No. Not a thing. Except that he was in Bomber Command and that he was lost and his remains were not known. Nothing about Bomber Command at all.
AC: Right. But yet have you found out something about him? About what he did with Bomber Command.
RR: No. I’ve gone through the records. I’ve had, I’ve been in touch with the Air Ministry and so on and I got all his training and so on. Where he went and what he did and so on but only the official stuff. But no. As I say I never met him. I wish I had have done but because of the difference in our ages of course that never took place.
[recording paused]
AC: Right. Perhaps we can go back to when you were in the Nissen hut being bombed.
RR: Oh, when I was in the Anderson shelter.
AC: Sorry. In the Anderson shelter.
RR: Right. The Anderson shelter. Yes. We were in the Anderson shelter as I’ve mentioned. In at seven up at five. And then after a while my grandmother who was of course elderly became quite ill, and because of going out in the cold weather, going underground with an oil stove inside and the fumes of the oil stove and God knows what she became very ill. Doctor used to visit her and go down in to the Anderson shelter to treat her. But when we got her out it was decided that maybe we ought not take shelter below ground but to find somewhere else. My father worked in Siemens. In fact, the Roffey family had several hundred years of service with Siemens. Brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins. But my father worked in Siemens and Siemens had their own air raid shelters built in, just in the precincts of the factory and he arranged for us to go and shelter in these concrete shelters. Reinforced concrete shelters. So we walked along the Woolwich Road in to the works and went down there. And we spent several, several weeks if not longer sheltering in Siemens Brothers’ shelter. Moving on that, that stopped for some reason and I don’t know why but during the V-1 when the V-1s started there was some brick shelters built in Charlton Lane. From the Woolwich Road we lived on the almost on the corner of Charlton Lane, next door to the Horse and Groom which was on the corner. We lived three doors from there and opposite the Horse and Groom across Charlton Lane was Holy Trinity Church. So you had a church on one corner of Charlton Lane that butted on to the Woolwich Road and you had the pub on the other corner. And on the path and halfway in the road there were some brick shelters built. Surface shelters. And during the V-1 raids we used to travel from our three doors away across to the brick shelters next to the church and shelter in there. So [pause] and we, we sheltered in there through the V-1s and the V-2s.
AC: And do you have any memories of your emotions? What you were feeling while you were in the Anderson shelters?
RR: I never for one moment felt frightened. I was more, I was more concerned because my father was a fire watcher and he was doing all sorts of things putting out fires. I was more concerned about his safety then mine. But I never had, felt any emotions whatsoever. It was just something that we had to go to the shelter. The banging and the movement of I never for one moment felt afraid. It was strange but I didn’t.
AC: And how did you pass the time while you were in the shelter?
RR: I just can’t remember.
AC: Yeah.
RR: We used to go in there. Again, it was a community. Being a brick shelter we weren’t the only, it was built with bunks either side with a corridor down the middle and elsan toilets at the end and two bunks and all the families. So I presume, I can’t remember but as children we used to play. And later on in the war we used to, I was very friendly with a boy that lived in the pub. In the Horse and Groom. He was a little younger than me but we became quite friendly and I spent lots of time with him, but no I can’t really remember what we didn’t in the Anderson [laughs] in the brick shelters.
AC: What about in the Anderson shelter? What did you have in there?
RR: The Anderson shelter was it was two bunks either side. We had this oil stove. My father being a sheet metal worker had created, had built a flue with a cowl on the top through the soil so to let the fumes out and so on. So we had a, but then there were other heaters in there and it was covered with blankets. One thing I do remember, come to mind now that I really did get frightened was we went to the brick shelter in the evening but of course the flying bombs, the V-1s were coming over all day and of course I was at home all day. Mum and dad were doing their jobs. My dad was in Siemens, my mother was a shirt, worked at the shirt factory in Woolwich and I was at home with my grandmother and the warning went one day. The warning went and I got grandmother down in the Anderson shelter in the garden and I stood, because there was like a little, it was underground and it came up two steps and up on to the path in the garden and I stood by the door in the garden and I could hear this flying bomb coming and I looked up and it was coming across from Charlton Village. Now, I doubt you know the area. I’m on the Woolwich Road down the riverside. Charlton Village was up the hill and I could see this flying bomb coming towards me. Towards me. It wasn’t actually but that’s what it looked like and suddenly its engine stopped and it started to come down and it started to come down towards me coming down. And that really, I was really very, very frightened. And I was on the point of rushing down and getting in the shelter when I looked again and it turned around. In its fall it turned around and it flew back towards Charlton Village and it fell on the Bugle Horn, the public house in Charlton Village. And if that hadn’t have turned around I’m sure it would have come down but that was my only frightening moment.
AC: And what about damage around where you lived? Were you —
RR: There wasn’t. Apart from windows out, doors out and so on the main damage was because Siemens was a German factory and Lord Haw Haw always said, ‘Siemens, we know where you are.’ That was obviously a prime target for south, for the south of the river where we were. There were bombs. There were no bomb, bomb damage that I could, from the Woolwich Road along through the Woolwich Road but there were a few bombs dropped from the East Street, West Street and Manor Way that ran down towards the river adjacent to Siemens. But no actual, there were no, I couldn’t remember any actual bomb damage in the, in the locality.
AC: And what about any of your neighbours or friends? Have you got any memories of what they have told you, or anything you did together? Maybe with your friends.
RR: I was, it was during this time I was going, my, my grandmother I also, also lived in the house with my mum and dad and my grandmother. My grandmother had a, had another daughter living with us. My mum’s sister who was who was a spinster. And she, whilst my mother was working and dad was working my auntie, Auntie Lou used to take me to school and so on when I was young and so on. She, she used to attend the Holy Trinity Church two doors, two doors away. I, I was encouraged to go with her so I attended Holy Trinity Church. I joined the choir. A lot of the local boys were in the choir. We had an extremely good vicar, Father Hopkins who, he was also the local Scout Master and I was in the 29th Woolwich Scouts through the war at that time and also in the choir. I was confirmed. I think twelve was the age of confirmation. I was confirmed by the Bishop of Woolwich in a church on Plumstead Common. I forget the name but, and then I became a server there and we used to go to services during the Blitz and particularly on Sundays during the day the 11 o’clock Communion service. And if there was a warning we used to go in the crypt. We used to shelter in the crypt. And Father Hopkins was the Scout master and he used to, we used to go off and very, of course Holy Trinity Church is adjacent to Gilbert’s Pit. Now, Gilbert’s Pit was a sand pit that overlooked the Woolwich Road and it was used, it was, it was sand obviously and the sand that was used by the United Glass Bottles Factory in Anchor and Hope Lane. And they initially got all their sand from this because it was Thames sand I suppose. And there was this big open pit and it rose up, a big hole in the middle that lorries used to go in and out. But during the war we used to play on the, not the pit itself but on the outskirts of the pit that was adjacent to the church and we used to have our Scout’s, Scout meetings there and meet other troops and do all sorts of things in the side of this sandpit. That was again was something that took our time during the day. Just thought about that.
[recording paused]
AC: So there’s a couple of more bits you want to tell me about.
RR: Yes. It’s just occurred to me that I mentioned that my dad was a fire watcher. He, along with groups of other man helped the air raid wardens and the people that were the official officials as it were. And these men just went out and reported to the warden’s post and they were directed to either pop sandbags on incendiary bombs that had fallen or go and help out. But there was one particular occasion when an incendiary bomb fell on the church. The church had a short spire on it. The fire brigade attended and if you think of a church the church goes up in steps. So you have the building and then you have the two aisles at the side with the church with a roof and then you have another piece of walling that goes up towards the roof and then on top of the roof is the spire. So you’ve got several steps if you like. Very big steps of course to get up to the spire. The fire brigade came along and attempted to get up on this spire because the incendiary bomb was lodged in the spire and it was setting the spire alight. They ran out of ladders. We, I’ve told you about doors being blown off and windows being out. We rented. My mum rented this property and the owner sent, or the agent sent contractors along to repair our house and their ladders were left outside our house. So they came along to our house, number 594 and took the ladders that belonged to the contractor to supplement their ladders so that they could try and reach the spire. They got up to the, over the first sloping roof up to the wall where the windows of the church below the roof were and then they had to get again on to another slope. And the firemen said it was too dangerous. So the story went. So the story went, and of course the pubs always stayed open, licensing hours didn’t exist in those days. If the boys were out putting out fires well, if they wanted to go in for a pint or whatever they got it. Well, it so happened that my dad was with a couple of blokes and they were in the pub having a drink and they came in and they said the church is alight but the fire brigade said it was too dangerous. So they all had, these guys all had steel helmets, dad had a steel helmet. It was grey, I remember. And he said, ‘Guys, we could get up there all right.’ So my dad actually got up there, right on to the roof and put the fire out. And of course as he was going up he told me afterwards that as he was going up the roof of the church the slates on the roof were coming off and he put his head, his hat down and his steel helmet and they were hitting his steel helmet as he went up. But he did get up there and he put the fire out. That’s one thing I remember. What else? Anything else?
AC: Finding any —
RR: Prompting me brings me all sorts of memories.
AC: What about finding any bits of aircraft or ammunition or —
RR: Oh yeah. Yeah. That was, that was something that we did as boys. Peter, Peter Hills who was my friend who was the licensee’s son in the Horse and Groom and I and another chap Leslie Denton who also lived further along the Woolwich Road about five doors from the church. We all went. We were all choir boys in the church and we used to go out and go in to Maryon Wilson Park. And of course there after the, after the night of shells being fired up and so on there were lots of bits of shrapnel that were left in the park. In the grass between the trees and we used to go out and pick them up and see who had the biggest bit and so. They were a bit nasty. You could cut your fingers on them quite extensively. But yeah that was, that was a pastime particularly at that heavy stage when we were being bombed. Yeah. You’re right, it’s we used to Maryon, never used to go to Maryon Park which was a park that was opposite Maryon Park School on the main road and then ran through because, I don’t know if you know the area but you got Maryon Park, and then you got, you got up the road and you got to Maryon Wilson Park which then runs up to Charlton Village. Maryon Park during the war of course was very flat because it was down, down by the river. It had a lovely putting green that we used to play putting. Thruppence a go. And we got our putting stick from the park keeper and our score card. And we used to do that on Sunday afternoons. And later on in the war they built a shelter in the park. There were tennis courts there as well. Built a shelter in the park. But another thing that used to happen later on in the war when the raids were less frequent they had dances around the band stand. So they had a band in the band stand and everybody congregated. Came in to the park and they used to have their dances and so on. So that was another thing that has come to memory.
AC: So, you, you just want to tell me about the coincidence concerning your Rose’s birthday and your cousin’s.
RR: Yes. Rose was, Rose, Richard’s mum was born on the 20th of February 1890 and it’s curious that Dick was born on the 20th of February [pause] I can remember. 20th of February 1921. And he was lost on the 21st of February 1945. And it strikes me as being very coincidental that those, that that date of the 20th of February seemed ominous for that, for that family. Quite unusual. Just something that came to me when I was going through looking at Dick’s parents. Strange.
AC: Indeed. Well that’s, thank you very much for that. It’s painted a vivid picture and thank you for your memories.
RR: Good. Well, thank you.
[recording paused]
AC: Right. I think you wanted to tell me about your police box.
RR: Right. Yes. If I can just paint the picture of this police box and where it stood. On the corner of, on the corner of Charlton Lane and Woolwich Road there was this public house I’ve mentioned called the Horse and Groom. Next to the Horse and Groom travelling towards Greenwich there was, there was a sweet shop and there was a barber’s shop and then there were the, there were some houses and I was in the second house from the sweet shop so, from the barber’s shop. Jimmy [unclear] Barber’s Shop it was. He had two daughters. Anyway, going on from there the police, the police box was continually manned during this time and it was, this one was continually manned because we had a siren located next to it. So, the siren of course stood on this very tall cylindrical piece of metal that was, went way above the houses with the siren on the top. And because it was continually manned we usually had the same policeman. There were exceptions but, and that policeman was Mr Ashdown, and a very pleasant man and I can see him now. Round face, white moustache and he was very friendly. And outside, and to protect the police box from bomb blasts and so on and it had a blast wall outside the door. And I remember quite distinctly we got quite friendly with the policeman. All the locals did. He got cups of tea and all sorts. And he opened his door his day and showed me how the siren worked. And from memory it was like a box on the wall and it had three sections in colours. It had a red section, a white section in the middle and a green section on the other side. And he got a message. When he got a message that the warning was imminent he had to sound this siren. And he just pulled the, pushed the lever over to the left, into the red section and this siren went off. Now, we’ve all heard what sounds siren sound like from all the films we’ve heard and it’s a wail. But the volume when you’ve got a siren about six feet from the house and we’re two doors away was quite something because everything in the house shook with the sound, with the vibration. Windows and anything that was loose, bits on the table would jump up and down and it was, it was quite an effort. Quite an effort. And of course when the all clear went Mr Ashdown would put the thing over to green and we would get the continuous wail of all clear and again we all shook to death.
AC: You can hear it now.
RR: I can indeed. And I can see Mr Ashdown now too. It’s amazing how many of those faces that even though what, I was ten, eleven going on, still remembering. And I remember him because he was, he was his family and my father was, my mother and father spent a lot of time in the Working Men’s Club which was only about a hundred and fifty yards further on. The Charlton Liberal Club. And I know Mr Ashdown and his family used to come along at weekends on occasions. There used to be dances going on. This was all during the war. A dance would go on or a concert on a Sunday evening. But later on that had to cease. The Concert Hall was converted into a storage area for bombed out people’s furniture and lo and behold a bomb fell on the back of the Concert Hall on the edge of the railway because the railway line from Charlton Station through to the level crossing at Charlton through to Woolwich arsenal the bomb fell at the side of the railway and on the end of the Concert Hall. And it so happened because the Concert Hall was full of people’s furniture, bombed out furniture the people in the club because the Concert Hall ran from the club itself where the bar was and the snooker table, and so on. Because of all that furniture it took a lot of the blast away and the people in there were lucky because they, they got away very lightly. There were no casualties.
AC: Good.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Ronald Roffey
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Cowley
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-08-30
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ARoffeyRA180830
Format
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00:41:06 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--London
England--Devon
England--Torquay
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1940-09-07
1945-02-21
Description
An account of the resource
Ronald was born in Charlton, south-east London. He went to Charlton Junior School and was nine when war was declared. He remembered being fitted for a gas mask at his school. His aunt who lived in Torquay found a private billet for him and his mother in Barton, near Torquay. His mother returned to London and in September 1940; during the Blitz Ronald took a train journey back to London, meeting his mother at Paddington station. On their way back to Charlton the sky was red and all of the north bank of the Thames was alight. Ronald’s father worked for Siemens. He was also a fire warden and on one occasion the family had to evacuate their house when an unexploded bomb was found next to their garden. They went to stay with grandmother’s sister in her flat near Charlton lido. Ronald went back to Torquay before returning to London when the V-1s and V-2s were being dropped. At eleven he went to Woolwich Central School. He remembers a bomb falling on a pub behind the school. All of the school windows were broken but fortunately the children were in the playground and no one was hurt. Ronald joined the Boy Scouts and Holy Trinity Church choir. After he was confirmed at 12, he became a server. There was one occasion when an incendiary bomb fell on the church, lodging in the spire and it was his father who climbed up and put out the fire. Ronald left school at 17 and went to work in London. There he met his future wife Joan and they married in 1953. When Ronald was about 20 he heard that his cousin Richard, who flew in Bomber Command, had been reported missing, presumed dead.
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Julie Williams
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
bombing
childhood in wartime
evacuation
home front
shelter
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/132/1289/PTempleL1501.1.jpg
ef9ac290edf3a9346f92c6236f7c4df3
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/132/1289/ATempleL151027.1.mp3
7e68bfdea2e63e23d0c117e0dcb60971
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Temple, Leslie
Leslie Temple
L Temple
Description
An account of the resource
The collection consists of one oral history interview and one warrant related to Warrant Officer Leslie Temple (b. 1925, 1893650 Royal Air Force). The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Leslie Temple and catalogued by IBCC staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound. Oral history
Text. Service material
Identifier
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Temple, L
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AS: Yes we are, we’re ready to go. Okay, this is, we’re ready to start. The machine’s running I think. Yes okay, so this is Andrew Sadler interviewing Les Temple, Mr. Leslie Temple, at his home in Ilford on Tuesday the 27th of September 2015 for the Bomber Command Archive. Thank you very much for allowing us to interview you Les.
LT: Good.
AS: Can I start by asking you about your date and place of birth?
LT: My birth date is 12th of January 1925 you see. Now I was born in the East End of London, and I had an older – my parents who – my father had come from Poland when he was fourteen and my mother as a young baby when she was born, she came over to England with her mother, and my parents had my brother Arthur. He was four years older than me, Arthur, and he went into the Army. When the war started, he was conscripted into the Army and in 1941 he was sent to France and there lo and behold in France, he was captured and made a prisoner of war. He was a prisoner of war for four years [emphasis] in Germany, and there’s quite a bit of history in his name obviously. But in the meantime, whilst he was away I reached conscription age and living in the East End of London at that particular time – when I was born, I was born and my brother was a bit older [emphasis] than me, so he didn’t sort of used to do the same, same things [laughs] together. He went into the services and then we moved at the beginning of the war to Leyton [emphasis], E10, and from there I was conscripted at the age of eighteen and I was conscripted for the RAF because I had spent four years in the Air Training Core [emphasis]. I was in the Air Training Core, I was conscripted, and in effect I was happy to be going into the RAF and for air, aircrew duties. And I went in initially as a radio operator, wireless operator and in that time, before that time I had been at school in Leyton, E10, at which I was sorted out there because I was always receiving first place in class – and my father was a tailor, and in effect he [laughs] couldn’t afford for me to go on to higher sort of class, school when I reached the age of fourteen and he, I had to go to work. But the fact was, is that I had my school reports there [laughs] of which I have first place in every one, and in that respect the school wanted me to go onto higher school, Leyton County High School, and, but my father I’m afraid in this respect he wasn’t earning much as a tailor and he couldn’t afford for me to go on in school, and I had to go to work. And strangely enough my first job was for the London County Council, Mr. Charles Leyton who I worked for in the office when I left school at the age of fourteen, he was the principle of the London County Council [emphasis]. So he took me into the London County Council and I was worked, worked there for a couple of years. And I found that I couldn’t earn enough to satisfy my parents who it was rather shame that they, you know, things weren’t all that good in those days in the, in the tailoring trade and so on and so forth. So it went on that I found various jobs to improve my mode of being able to live and earn money and I went into the insurance business [emphasis], and I started at a pretty young age in the insurance business, learning the office work and so on and so forth, and then I went into, into the Air Force because the war started and I was taken in as a radio operator, and in effect I had joined the Air Training Core during that period, and I was four years [emphasis] in the Air Training Core, which I did, did quite well, and as you can see here, the history is even in here about me being in the Air Training Core, and they decided it would be good for me to go in as a radio operator into, into the RAF.
AS: Why did you originally go into the Air Training Core, what inspired you?
LT: Well it inspired me because my brother [emphasis] was going to be conscripted in the Army, and I felt that I was capable of handling the things required in the, in the RAF, and I was pretty good at the Morse code and one thing and another in the Air Training Core, and so I applied to, to go into the RAF, and that’s how I was conscripted at that particular time for the RAF. And in effect [paper shuffles] let me see now [continued shuffling, pause]. Ooh, yes [shuffling, pause]. [Reading]: ‘confounding the enemy, the RAF Jewish Special Operators of 101 Squadron, Bomber Command.’ Now in the RAF I was, I did all the examinations and so, learnt the Morse code pretty quickly and so on, and as it got in the book here, [reading]: ‘much of the history of the secret telecommunication of war, against the Germans during the Second World War is still classified and shrouded in mystery, including the radio countermeasures of RAF Squadron 101.’ Now –
AS: So you were in 101?
LT: I was in 101 Squadron you see. Now 101 was a particular – [reading]: ‘it was a great history of the advancement made of telecommunications in the RAF because we were using the special Morse code details for confounding the enemy and also learning what they were transmitting, and we’ – the normal – I went, I went into various [emphasis] stations – I’ll show you, just a moment [pause, papers shuffle]. Well I had it here before, it’s all down here. [Reading]: ‘confounding the enemy in the RAF Jewish [unclear] 101,’ right. Right, my number was 1893650, would you like to make a note [?]. [Pause, continued shuffling].
AS: Good, carry on.
LT: Now, as it says here, [reading]: ‘1893650, Flight Sergeant Leslie Temple, born in 1925 to Jane and Solomon in Stepney, joined the RAF in January 1943 aged eighteen, but has served in the Air Training Core from the age of fourteen. He received initial air training at Bridgnorth in Shropshire, on De Havilland Dominies and Proctors. Radio training at Madley, acclimatisation on B17s at Sculthorpe in Norfolk and a Lancaster Conversion Course at Lindholme in Yorkshire, before being sent as a full flight sergeant aged nineteen to join 101 Squadron.’ I don’t know whether you’ve heard of 101 before, have you?
AS: No, not really.
LT: No, well – [reading]: ‘to join 101 Squadron at Ludford. He’d learnt German at school and spoke fluent Yiddish at home.’ Well you know Yiddish was the language which the foriegn Jews used when they came to London. They couldn’t speak English properly so they were able to speak easily to each other. [Reading]: ‘but the SO work was so secret that they had no idea until he arrived at Ludford,’ – I arrived at Ludford Magna, that was the station that I arrived at. They used to call it not Ludford but Mudford [laughs] it was so, so bad. [Reading]: ‘until he arrived at Ludford why he’d been sent there. He completed thirty missions between 22nd of June against the Reims Marshalling Yard and 28th of October 1944, Cologne.’ So I did my air operations between 22nd of June and 28th of October 1944, on Cologne.[Reading]: ‘other raids from his still prized logbook including Essen, Frankfurt, V1 [?] sites, through concentrations after D-Day, Cahagnes [?], Hamburg and Sholven. Special operators worked intensely on the journeys out and home for several hours, but over the target could only watch. Once the bombers were near the target, it was obvious to the enemy where they were going, so jamming [?] was superfluous.’ When you got near the target you stopped jamming [?] you see, only when you was coming to the target and listening, listening into what the Germans were saying. [Reading]: ‘Leslie Temple explained that the rear gunner in Able ABC Lancasters,’ ABC is you know, Airborne Cigar, that’s ABC – ‘had heavier machine guns than usual because the planes were particularly vulnerable transmitting over enemy bombers.’ Now did you see a thing, Lancaster Bomb, Lancaster Bombers –
AS: Yes.
LT: Ah it’s under, under this book there.
AS: Yeah.
LT: You see now, Lancaster Bombers – the compliment for a crew for a Lancaster was seven, a long was seven. But 101 was the only squadron that had eight [emphasis], and we had eight because we were a special aircrew, squadron which was trans, doing the special operators work, interfering with what the Germans were transmitting to their fighters and so on. Now, the fact that I had a knowledge of the German language , the fact that I had a knowledge of the German language made me that eighth member of the crew, because when I was, when I went to, what’s her name at the beginning, my first squadron at Ludford – I, I had this crew, I joined the crew which I joined because it was time they arrived and I arrived you see, to make up the eighth, eighth member. I did six operations with them, but the skipper, he used to mess about with ladies and so on and so forth, and what happened was he, the crew was disarmed and so on, and taken off [emphasis]. And there was I, left at Ludford without a crew [emphasis]. And I, I had done six operations with them. Well when I was there on my own it was lucky for me that Eric Neilson came in with his crew, and he had seven members of his crew who came to Ludford Magna, to 101, to start operations. So they said to me ‘right, you join him as a special operator.’ Now aircraft in 101, their machine guns were point five. The normal machine gun in a Lancaster and aircraft used by the RAF were 303s. We had heavier machine guns in 101, and it was a wonderful reason that we had [laughs] point fives, because they were very useful on many occasions, and I joined them as a special operator. Now I don’t know whether you know, the Lancaster was converted to a special operation aircraft because when you got into a Lancaster, behind the door on a normal Lancaster was a bed. Well on our Lancasters, 101 Squadron, the bed was taken out and the place was made for the special operators. I had my recording equipment and my equipment to listen, listen in to the German transmissions, and I could hear the German language and I could understand what was going on, and I would transmit that to my skipper when anything was happening that was useful to us. And so we had eight in the crew. Our Lancaster was converted from seven individuals to eight [emphasis], and I was the special operator, and the whole [emphasis] squadron was this way. We all had eight in the crew [phone rings]. Oh, excuse me a minute, is that –
[Tape paused and restarted].
AS: Okay, do carry on.
LT: Right, now I was up to this question – what, have you been over this question of why we had eight, eight members?
AS: Yes.
LT: You’ve been over this, and where they were situated and so on –
AS: Yep.
LT: And so forth. Now where were we up to –
AS: You just told me that.
LT: Yeah. Now when, when I had got my crew, Eric Neilson came in and I joined them. I had done six operations, you see when – you know the tour was at thirty, you were supposed to do up to thirty you see, so I did twenty-three with them, which is in my logbook and, for you to see, and in effect, we were getting on extremely well. I was, you know made[laughs], made right for them, but I couldn’t do the full tour that they were doing, you see. They would have to do the thirty and I would only have to do twenty-three to do. And in effect this, this situation developed where I did the twenty-three with them and I had to come off because I done thirty. I did six and I did another one with another crew, just one, to finish off my thirty [emphasis]. And Eric Neilson had to get another operator you see, so in effect as it says here in this history, that we got on very well together, we had a number of difficult situations to do, but the worst operation we had was on a raid on Kiel [emphasis], where we went to Kiel [papers shuffle]. We took off from Ludford just before midnight, at twenty-three fifty-five for the heavily defended German naval base at Kiel. The Lancaster was blown slightly off course over the North Sea so the bomb aimer had to ask that they, that they fly round for a second time over the target to ensure accuracy, which was always extremely hazardous. As we did not jam [?] over the actual target, I could watch everything from the astrodome. I used to go into the astrodome when we reached the target area, because I had to come off my, my equipment and we started doing our bombing [emphasis], and dropping, and dropping the bombs you see, and as it says here: [reading]: ‘there was a solid curtain burst and hellish flak, wall of searchlights across the sky. Other bombers all around waiting to release their bombs, and predatory German night fighters spitting canon fire. Finally we dropped our bombs on target, but were suddenly nailed by a master searchlight on the way out. Immediately, a dozen others combed us at twenty thousand feet.’ All these other searchlights, we got on a master searchlight caught us in its [laughs] light and the other searchlights came on and we were combed at twenty thousand feet. [Reading]: ‘extremely German flak opened up and we were scarred with shrapnel which simply passed through the airframe, over our two port engines and burst into flames. I feared the worst as I could not bail out over the North Sea at night.’ We were over the North Sea and we had these two engines caught [laughs] fire. [Reading]: ‘our quick thinking Canadian skipper, Eric Neilson, who was given the DFC from this operation, nose a Lancaster down and pulled out of the beam at five thousand feet. The pillar and flight engineer, the pilot [emphasis] and flight engineer managed to extinguish the flames over the North Sea using the internal extinguishers, and despite no power from the directional equipment because of the two cut engines, our skilled navigator used’ –. Now this is – he, our navigatior, he always carried a sextant. You know what a sextant is, for direction and so on and so forth, and [reading]: ‘stars trying to get us home on two engines. We crash landed at Ludford in Lincolnshire and our back at our aerodrome, a special crash landing base at about four a.m. with over a hundred [emphasis] holes in the Lancaster.’ We had over a hundred holes in it, and er – [reading]: ‘after debriefing, I laid on my bed and could not stop shaking for twelve hours. The MO said the best cure was simply to get back up again soon and of course we did.’ No counselling in those days, so that was a pretty difficult situation, which we [laughs], we got, we came back on two engines and crash landed [laughs] and so on and so forth. Now tell, I’ll tell you something that we haven’t written down. The way to get your wheels down in a Lancaster was through hydraulic tanks. Now, if you were out too long, or else [?] they were punctured, the tanks then you couldn’t get your wheels down. The only way you could get down was you had to crash land. So we couldn’t get our wheels down when we got back to our base [emphasis] and the pilot said to us ‘right boys, you’ve got to go and do business [laughs] to pee, to pee in the tanks, the hydraulic tanks.’ So we had to go and pee in the hydraulic tanks, and we managed to get sufficient water to get the wheels down, you know, and that was the only way we could get down safely [emphasis] by doing that. And we just [emphasis] got down, you know, it was a tremendous situation otherwise we were going to have to crash, crash land without any wheels you see, and that was, that thing on Kiel. And that really, on the 23rd of July 1944 was the worst possible trip that we had, and in my thirty operations that was the – because we got shot up and we had, you know, all the situations that developed, being involved with the Germans at that time, but anyway, we managed, managed okay. So is that quite clear to you?
AS: How many more trips did you have to do after that? Where was that in the –
LT: Er –
AS: In the order of them?
LT: That [papers shuffle] that was my twenty-third [emphasis] operation that was.
AS: So you got another seven to do?
LT: Another seven to do, yeah. And you know, it was very, very close. After serving in 101 I was told to take a long leave and thereafter working as ground crew, and [long pause] –
AS: So, so you did your thirty and after that you worked on the ground. You didn’t have to do anymore?
LT: I didn’t have to do anymore, no.
AS: Right.
LT: I worked on the ground –
AS: ‘Cause I read some people had to do another thirty and then –
LT: Oh well that is if you did a straight [emphasis] thirty you weren’t forced [emphasis] to go do a second operation, operational trip. They asked [emphasis] you if you wanted to go you could go, and you found a suitable crew you could go. But I’m afraid that doing thirty trips in a Lancaster at that particular time [laughs] it, it didn’t sit, make you want to go back and have another go [laughs], I can tell you that much.
AS: Were there many people who did thirty, I mean, I mean it was incredibly dangerous wasn’t it?
LT: Oh yes, oh yes.
AS: You must have lost a lot of comrades on the way.
LT: Well, I lost my best pal in the Air Force, a boy named Jack Whitely. We were on a raid going out, and we were circling off the coast, off the English coast, waiting to go out when we saw an explosion in the sky, and what happened was two aircraft had collided because when you were going out, you went to the coast and you all got into your positions. There might have been three or four hundred aircraft, but you all had certain times where you would take off for your target you see, which would put you in a certain position. Well, at some times you got there a little early, you couldn’t go, go off for your operation, so you had to wait. All you’d do is you’d go round and round and round, you see, waiting for your time to come up while you went on operation. Well, at times you were very, very close to other aircraft, especially at night and they were very much a number of collisions. And Jack, real name Jack Whitely who I went through radio school and everything, and as a matter of fact I’ve got information here from his family. They wrote to me, I think it’s in that file there. They wrote to me and you know, because Jack and I we used to be, go to each other’s homes and so on and so forth when we were on leave, and he got killed. They fished him out the, fished him out the sea. And this is the sort of life you had in the Air Force. You didn’t know where you – you made friends but you didn’t know what was going to happen on your next, on your next, next trip.
AS: Your thirty trips, how far, how far apart were they?
LT: Thirty – well in the winter they were further apart than in the, in the summer. A lot depended on, on the weather. I did my, my thirty took me about what, four, four, about five months it took me, yeah. And sometimes it took much longer, it took seven or eight months, and in the summer, if we were completely in the summer weather, well you were that much better off [laughs] as far as getting down quicker. But a lot of boys went back and did second, second tours. But I found myself that getting through one tour was heavy enough.
AS: You’d had your luck, and you were sticking with it.
LT: Yes, definitely [emphasis], definitely.
AS: So when you, then you became ground crew. What did you do with the ground crew, as a ground crew?
LT: Well, when I went back on ground crew I was teaching other boys, you know, carrying on, on various squadrons to teach other boys what you learnt when you [emphasis] were flying, and that’s, that’s what I did, and it, it was 1944 and we were getting towards the end [laughs] of things then. We were finding things that promised, made, we made promises [emphasis] to finish, finish the war then and it, it was a great life at the time because I’d never been abroad when I went into the Air Force. I’d never been abroad or anything like that, and it was a totally, totally different life. And since then it’s been seventy, seventy years [emphasis], seventy years since –
AS: Hmm.
LT: Finishing a tour.
AS: When you did the ground, when you were with the ground crew, was, where were you stationed then? Was that still in Lincolnshire?
LT: Oh yes, yes, Lincolnshire. I think I got [papers shuffle] something here [long pause]. Got here, [reading]: ‘there was little doubt that outside the small circle of 101 Squadron veterans, few knew, few know the important dangerous work of the special [emphasis] operators and their Lancaster crew comrades. Less still, the role of the Jewish SOs,’ special operators, ‘it is to be hoped that this study will bring deserved, if belated recognition to this brave band of brothers.’ Now where did I – [papers shuffle, long pause], hmm.
AS: So how long were you – was it ‘til you were demobilised at the end?
LT: What come off aircrew?
AS: Yes. I mean when you, when you left the RAF, when was that?
LT: I left the – well I was, what, in the RAF nineteen, nineteen, what – just a minute I’ll give you the details, are just here [papers shuffle, long pause]. Hmm, excuse me, looking this up. [Long pause] 24th [?] 1944 [long pause]. [Reading]: ‘from October 1943, Squadron 101 flew two thousand, four hundred and seventy-seven sorties with Airborne Cigar from Ludford Magna. They dropped sixteen thousand tonnes of bombs between January 1944 and April 1945 alone [emphasis], and flew more bombing raids than any other Lancaster squadron in Group 1, losing one thousand and ninety-four crew killed and a hundred and seventy-eight prisoners of war.’ Now, we lost more individuals in our squadron than any other RAF squadron –
AS: Mm.
LT: You know. [Reading]: ‘the highest causalities of any squadron in the RAF,’ 101 Squadron. It’s a good thing for you to have noted. [Reading]: ‘it dropped sixteen thousand tonnes of bombs between January forty-four and April forty-five, and flew more bombing raids than any other, than any other Lancaster squadron in Group 1.’
AS: Hmm.
LT: Yeah. [Reading]: ‘losing one thousand and ninety-four crew and a hundred and seventy-eight were prisoners of war. The highest casualties of any squadron in the RAF.’ It, we were a tough, a tough squadron.
AS: So what date did you, were you demobilised from the RAF?
LT: What date –
AS: Yes.
LT: Did I, excuse me [papers shuffle, long pause]. Well I finished my tour 23rd October forty-four. Now [papers shuffle]. Now, 28th of October forty-four – I started operations [continued shuffling] in June forty-four to October forty-four. That’s when, that’s my whole –
AS: That’s from your logbook.
LT: Yeah.
AS: But when did you actually leave the RAF?
LT: The RAF was in, in forty, forty-five I think. I can’t –
AS: Did you leave immediately after the war finished?
LT: Er, yes [shuffling]. I’ve got a note somewhere when I left the RAF.
AS: What did you do after, after you left?
LT: What did I do?
AS: Hmm.
LT: I became – I had one or two little business activities, but I went into insurance business. I was an insurance broker for many years. I had my office in The Temple. You know The Temple?
AS: Mm.
LT: Smiths [?], Selma [?] and Temple and Company, Temple Chambers, Temple Avenue, East E4, that was, that was what I was involved in –
AS: Did, did –
LT: When I came out the RAF.
AS: Did you find it easy to settle back into civilian life or?
LT: Well, the early days weren’t easy, the early days weren’t easy. But – because I did a lot of cold calling on businesses in those days, a lot of cold calling to build up a basic clientele. But then I, I got known quite well. I had an office in Shoreditch, and then I went up to Ludgate Circus, and then from Ludgate Circus we were doing well with the Norwich Union, and they said to me that ‘we’ve got offices in The Temple.’ They owned these offices in the Norwich Union and ‘we’d like you to come in there and operate [laughs] and we can do business together.’ So that’s the way – until my retirement at sixty-five. Really I retired too early [emphasis]. I could have gone on working and it’s, I mean when you look at it gently, I’m now coming up ninety-one. I’m retired, you know, twenty-six, twenty-six years ago [laughs], it’s, you know to fill in your time over those years it takes, it takes a lot of doing. And I’ve filled in a lot of my time with doing building for other people sort of thing, going, passing on my know how to other people, and that’s the, that’s the way it’s been.
AS: And tell me about your comrades in your crew. You told me you kept in touch with them.
LT: Yes. Well did you see that letter –
AS: I did yes.
LT: From my skipper?
AS: Yes I did. Your skipper Eric Neilson.
LT: Yeah.
AS: Tell me, tell me, tell us about Eric.
LT: Eric’s, Eric was a – well he had his own aircraft in Canada. He he had his own plane, and he wanted me to go out there but I missed it. I didn’t go out to Canada and then things, things happened that are just right. We were writing, phoning each other and so on, keeping, keeping in touch [emphasis]. I kept in touch with about four of my crew. The one you saw the card, just died, Stan Horne my navigator. Kept in touch with him, and with Eric, Eric died pretty early [emphasis] you know.
AS: Did he? And he was the one who was the deputy prime minister in Canada.
LT: In Canada, yes. And you can see in your, in the book there’s some very nice pictures of him.
AS: And this is his memories, his autobiography we’re looking at.
LT: Yeah [shuffling papers]. See there’s our, there’s our crew there –
AS: Oh yes [long pause, shuffling].
LT: Lovely man [shuffling continues]. Life moves very quickly.
AS: And after the war what – I mean how do you think that Bomber Command were treated? Have you got any opinion on that?
LT: On Bomber Command – well no not really. I haven’t got a lot of experience [emphasis] with Bomber Command.
AS: No.
LT: But I’ve kept together, yeah I’ve been going to the RAF club regularly. I still go there occasionally.
AS: In Pall Mall?
LT: In Pall Mall, yes.
AS: Yes.
LT: Opposite the memorial.
AS: Yes.
LT: And go up there and, you know, because it gets to the stage when you’re here, you know, you make friends with someone and then they’re gone, die [laughs] you see. And there’s a session, session, a procession [emphasis] of men dying now –
AS: Hmm.
LT: Because everybody, everybody will, we’ll all go. I don’t know when, how much longer [laughs] I’ve got, you see. But it’s been a great [emphasis] experience in one’s life, to have gone through, gone through all this. It’s – I could go on for, on for days [emphasis] going over, going over things that –
AS: Shall we, erm, well shall I stop the recording, and we’ll look at some of the –
LT: Yeah.
AS: Archival documents –
LT: Did you –
AS: Materials that you’ve got. The book that you’ve been reading from – can I just –
LT: Did you see this letter?
AS: I’ll have a look at it in a second. The book you’ve been reading from is “Fighting Back: British During Military Contribution in the Second World War” by Martin Sugarman isn’t it?
LT: That’s right, yes.
AS: Yes. Okay, thank you very much, I’ll turn the recorder off now, and –
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Leslie Temple
Creator
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Andrew Sadler
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-10-27
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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00:49:39 audio recording
Language
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eng
Identifier
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ATempleL151027
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Type
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Sound
Conforms To
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Pending review
Description
An account of the resource
Leslie Temple spent four years in the Air Training Corps before joining the Royal Air Force as a radio operator. He completed a tour of 30 operations with 101 Squadron at RAF Ludford Magna, as a German speaking special operator. He describes how having an eight man crew and extra equipment affected the interior of the Lancaster bombers. He reads from “Fighting Back: British During Military Contribution in the Second World War” by Martin Sugarman throughout the interview.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Contributor
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Katie Gilbert
101 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
B-17
Dominie
fear
ground personnel
Lancaster
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Proctor
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Lindholme
RAF Ludford Magna
RAF Madley
RAF Sculthorpe
searchlight
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/576/8845/AGoughH150922.2.mp3
c57cda680fc05053c4ed864f4febb674
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Gough, Harry
H Gough
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Gough, H
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Harry Gough (1925 - 2016, 1590911 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a rear gunner with 10 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AM: Ok so it’s Tuesday 22nd September 2015 and we are in Tingly near Wakefield and this is Annie Moody for the International Bomber Command Centre and I’m talking today to
HG: Harry Gough.
AM: Harry Gough. So if you would Harry would you just tell me a little bit about your childhood, and where you were born and what your parents did.
HG: I was born in Dewsbury, er Dewsbury Moor actually. My father at that time was er worked in the steel industry at Click Heaton up to me being probably six or seven and then he er decided to leave that and er go into the licensing trade being er, what is it, er steward at a working men’s club that would be when I was six or seven er.
AM: What was it like being a child working in a, er living near a working men’s club then, where you living there in it?
HG: No no we lived away from it
AM: Oh, Oh
HG: But er at that time, funnily enough we were only on about this a few days ago er the way families were brought up, I think it was when Victor was up er, I was the youngest of seven and the house we had a small terraced house (pause) you couldn’t say it was a one up and one down but that’s basically what it was one large bedroom and a small one at the top of the landing so that was the earliest I remember being there er.
AM: What about the bathroom and toilet, where were they?
HG: Oh no bathroom (laughs) there there were sink in the corner
AM: And a tin bath
HG: Tin bath yeah and a toilet way up the yard and er you prayed every day that it didn’t you didn’t have heavy rain (laughs) er but we moved into a council house at that time when I was seven and er there again seven of us and it was a three bedroomed council house you know people just wouldn’t have that today would they and er from there er went to the local school, broke my leg playing football er recovered from that and we moved into a public house then in Dewsbury the Great (unclear) Hotel in Dewsbury and we were there for two years transferred our interest to Leeds another pub, another two years, or less than two years, back to Morley (unclear) Morley and that another pub eventually er and that when my schooling finished that would be 1939
AM: So how old were you then?
HG: Fourteen
AM: Fourteen
HG: My eldest my second eldest brother he worked in the textiles and he had to work at Putsey and he had to go by bike from Morley to Putsey on the night shift his wage was twenty six bob a week so he’d had enough of that and he volunteered for the army me being the stupid lad, oh no I’m not stupid, er if he was having action I wanted it as well so I wanted to go in the boys army along with him er, my father agreed to it but er mother said no you’re not and that was the end of that up to er 41 and er I joined the air training corps local squadron at Morley and er in there until volunteering for the air force in 43 and er eventually accepted and I did the er air crew assessment at Doncaster and er they were full up with pilots and full up with navigators
AM: Everybody wanted to be a pilot
HG: (Laughs) that’s right (laughs) right well if you got to be a gunnery course that’s it well I wanted to fly anyway so it was August 43 when I eventually went and er signed on down at Lords cricket ground, lad at 18 years old and going to London you know, never been out of his home town I don’t think, occasional holiday but not many of those I kind of remember going on holiday with my parents more than once
AM: How did you get to London then did you go on the train?
HG: Train yeah yeah, I suppose you get on the train and follow the crowd (laughs) er when we were there our initial signing and initial whatever it is medicals and er up to er for a fortnight to three weeks and then back up into Yorkshire to Bridlington
AM: So in that three weeks what were you doing?
HG: er getting kitted out
AM: What sort of things?
HG: Medicals er several injections whatever they call them er but er my sister was stationed in London at the time she was in the WAFS and er we met up a few times at er I think it was just routine things er drills whatever marching to the London zoo for meals and er yeah and I met up with a gunner we met on the first day we were there
AM: What was he called?
HG: Bill Field from Chester we were about the same age and er we were together right the way through to finishing flying
AM: Really
HG: We did a gunnery course did our basic training in Bridlington over to Belfast or near Belfast for gunnery school
AM: What was the gunnery school like what sort of things were you doing there did you have to strip em and put em back together and all that sort of stuff
HG: No no you had to do theory work on the guns but er mainly it was er rifle shooting for the clay pigeon shooting er then up in the Avro Ansons for air to air gunnery
AM: So when you say air to air what were you shooting at
HG: A draw yeah there’d be another Emerson dragging a draw if you were lucky he ate it (laughs)
AM: Did you
HG: Well I got a percentage of it whether that’s true or not I don’t know I think they just put this percentage out to get you through and make sure you had a rear gunner or something.
AM: Mmm
HG: But er that was I finished there New Year’s Eve we left New Year’s Eve in 43 that was it so from August I’d done all the basic training air gunnery training and passed out as a Sergeant air gunner before I was nineteen
AM: Blimey
HG: When you think about that you know think about that lady how stupid can it be but er it wasn’t just me everybody was on it er and after a short period at home then oh we finished up in Scotland on New Year’s Eve at Stranraer bit frightening (laughs) as an eighteen year old a bit frightening
AM: Laughs
HG: But er nevertheless we caught the train early morning and er early morning made our way home. After a few days at home up to er Kinross forest in Kinross in Scotland
AM: Scotland again
HG: That was for er crewing up and er operational training
AM: So how did the crewing up go cos’ you’d already got your mate with you
HG: Yes we stuck together all the time did Bill and I and er I don’t remember er well
AM: Who chose who?
HG: (Pause) I think the pilot chose us (laughs) why he did I don’t know er
AM: Maybe he could see there were two mates together and he wanted…
HG: Yes I think that had a lot to do with it we’d been together as pals and Harry Harrison the pilot er then he’d already met the er navigator Johnny Hall from Bradford from there we all got together Scottish wireless operator Cockney lad for a flight engineer and er I don’t remember where he come from South Midlands somewhere… Leicester and er how long did that last probably January late February early March
AM: So that’s where you flew together as a crew then
HG: Crew yes flying Whitley’s doing all the basic things turning dinghy’s over in the bath (laughs) when you can’t swim it’s er a bit of a nightmare but we got through it er
AM: Why turning dinghy’s over in the bath, in case you got shot down
HG: Yeah in case you got shot down
AM: Or crash landed in the sea
HG: Yeah yeah and er flying Whitley’s er the flying coffin some of the cross countries that we did six hours in the rear turret of a Whitley not very nice but it was enjoyable because that’s what I wanted to do er from there we went to er Marston Moor er heavy conversion unit flying the Halifax Mk 2.
AM: Right
HG: Which you don’t get to know until later that was the worst period of your service flying in a Halifax Mk 2 you were safer flying in the Mk 3 and 4 going on operations
AM: Why was that?
HG: They were very unreliable er basically because of the engine I think er and the tail unit the tail unit of the Halifax changed a great deal and they put revised engines in then and they were a much sounder aircraft
AM: Right
HG: But er we didn’t get none (unclear) you were in a death trap really (laughs) but er we got through that and we floated about then in Yorkshire for some reason (unclear) and Maltby, Driffield just for nightly stays and things like until we got posted to a squadron which was Melbourne ten squadron
AM: And there was ten squadron
HG: Mmm from there well
AM: What was your first operation like then
HG: What was it like
AM: Well can you just, I can’t imagine how it must of felt
HG: (Pause)
AM: I bet you can’t remember (laughs)
HG: No I can’t remember, no I can’t remember (pause)
AM: Bacon and eggs
HG: (Laughs) oh aye coming back to bacon and eggs that’s what that’s what you looked forward to but never when they all went out on operations did I ever think that I wouldn’t get back never never entered my head that I would never get back
AM: Did you have any close shaves
HG: (Pause) I suppose there were one or two where er the fighters were about but er in the main there were I think the biggest (unclear) were the night operations which you know they were a bit backwards at coming forwards at coming up in the dark they’d wait till the Yanks went over in the day light and have a go at them
AM: Have a go at them
HG: But er anti-aircraft fire unnerving but even then never entered my head that er I wouldn’t get back
AM: And you were right
HG: Mmm
AM: What was it like ‘cos you were the rear gunner so as you’re coming away bombs have been dropped?
HG: That’s right
AM: And you can see
HG: Yeah
AM: What’s, what’s happened
HG: Oh the in most cases the place was ablaze down below and er I suppose you think at the time oh great we’ve done a good job
AM: Yeah
HG: It isn’t until later days you know was it all that good you know what damage did we do I mean innocent people were killed but this is years later you think about this
AM: I was gonna say that because at the time you were doing it
HG: We were doing what we would been trained to do and er got satisfaction out of doing it as well but er pub visits at the night when you weren’t on operation a little bit naughty at times but er
AM: I’m gonna have to ask you, in what way naughty
HG: Well I don’t know it er probably drink more than what you should really
AM: You’re still only twenty by this time nineteen
HG: Nineteen yes I finished flying before I was twenty so I were only well at that time you were what you called kids at eighteen you weren’t adults at all you were classed as kiddies really
AM: Did you fly with the same crew all the way through
HG: Yes yes stuck together all the way through thirty three operations
AM: Thirty three, blimey, I can see we’ve got your log book is there anything
HG: Laughs
GR: Well your first operation was a daylight
HG: Yeah it was
GR: According to this yeah Macer Owen
HG: Taverni was it
GR: Yeah Macer Owen…and your last op was Christmas Eve (Laughs)
HG: Yeah yeah fly from the 23rd (unclear) the 24th
AM: And you said to me before about the fact that it was Christmas Eve and that was your last one
HG: Yeah
AM: About your mum and dad
HG: Yeah at the time it never struck me at all that it was any different to any other operation or you know you feel a sense of relief that the operations are over but it was only oh much later that I thought about these things. I don’t know what my parents were really thought about me being in the Air Force and what I was doing what it meant to them but what a Christmas box it must have been if that’s the way they thought about that I wasn’t in danger of being shot down or losing my life or whatever er after that particular time I never mentioned it to them in fact it was after they’d both passed I think my dad thought about it but er
AM: Yeah so what did you do after you finished your operations
HG: Oh dear I got kicked about and er
AM: (Laughs) did you do any training or TU stuff
HG: No I went into air traffic control actually
AM: Ahh
HG: Er when they finally got me settled down at Shawbury which was the number one flying training school was it, that’s where the (unclear) flew from when we went over the North Pole wing commander Mcclurough I think it was er I did a few months there I was there up to er VE day which was in May wasn’t it
AM: Mmm
HG: 45 and on VE day I travelled to Valley on the Isle of Anglesey and I was there until after VJ Day, (pause) VJ day what a night
AM: (Laughs)
HG: There was a black and tan drink then wasn’t there Guinness and beer black and tan
GR: That’s right yeah
AM: Mmm
HG: Still only twenty and I’m drinking black and tans I didn’t eat anything for four days (laughs)
AM: Laughs
GR: Laughs
HG: That’s when I learnt how to drive er air traffic control there was a (unclear) out there are you alright, yes I’m alright, never driven a van in my life (laughs) and there was some…how do I start this thing, (laughs) and away I went, but er bit precarious but er
AM: On a road or
HG: No no on the air field on the air field
AM: Just as well
HG: Yeah (laughs) well from the mess to the er traffic control and whatever to the end of the runway and back and things like that but er and from there not long after VJ Day I went back to Shawbury again well just how long I was there I can’t remember can’t remember and by this time I’d er already got my Flight Sergeant that was late 44 I got my Officer late 45 when I was still at Shawbury and then went to various places then just two or three days stopping at one near Warrington I can’t remember I can’t remember what place it was
AM: I wonder why, why were they moving you about like that?
HG: To find getting a posting you just couldn’t get (unclear) to come out I did want to come out anyway because I had the chance to come out on was it class B release or something because I worked in the textiles before I went in and there was no way that I’m going back into textiles after being in the air force and the excitement that I’d had or the life that I’d had and they kick you about a bit until er they get you a posting and I finally got a posting to er Austria just outside Vienna (Schwechat) but in the meantime for some reason that I don’t know why and I always thought it was a bit unfair you had to re-muster and you lost your seniority rank you were taken down from Warrant Officer back down to sergeant in rank but not in pay you still got your Warrant officers pay and it always hit me that er you know you’ve done this, you’ve volunteered for this, you’ve done your flying you’ve done your duty and everything that’s been asked of you and you’ve been fortunate enough to get through and then they demote you which didn’t seem fair to me at all, er but as I say the money was still there you were a Sergeant with a Warrant Officer’s pay and er went to Vienna (pause) mid July 46 July 46 that’s right er (pause) yeah and I enjoyed that er in air traffic control again er the surrounding area you were in the Russian border so you had to be very careful what you were doing but you were allowed out of camp and there was woodlands and through the woodlands you got to the er river what is it in Vienna come on Clarice what river is it in Vienna
AM: I can’t think I should know and I can’t it’s not erm
HG: I’ll be dammed
AM: No it’s gone I can’t remember
GR: Could be the Rhine
HG: No
GR: The Rhone
HG: No
AM: I can’t remember either
HG: Crazy isn’t it, crazy
AM: I’ll find it after, the river in Vienna anyway
HG: Yeah er out of camp and through this woodland I actually walked on the river it was that cold it was frozen over it was really really cold but er the camp that’s about itas much as I can remember about it other than we often visited Vienna itself not nightly but certainly two or three nights a week and really enjoyable and er the diesel in the truck that took us down would often freeze up so you were stuck there in the middle of the night (laughs) trying to keep warm
AM: Laughs
HG: But er I suppose the most that I remember about that there were three of us myself a Geordie lad ex air crew and a Scotch lad ex air crew and we got to like our drinks a little bit I always remember one afternoon we were drinking in the bar and we drunk that bar absolutely dry
AM: There’s a there’s a thread running through this story isn’t there (laughs)
HG: (Laughs) we drank that bar absolutely dry we finished up drinking port of all things and we sat in this bar and an electric light, (pause) can’t be a fire can’t that and it was and er the electrics in upstairs room had caught fire and er everybody had to bail out of course and this Scots lad he went absolutely berserk and we were just across from the er guard room and er the three of us were taken into the guard room and this guy was given morphine to quieten him down he was really really bad so that was almost the end of my service in Vienna we got kitted out and put in with the airmen for the rest of our stay there but er came back to er Blackpool and we were de-mobbed
AM: You were de-mobbed so you did leave in the end
HG: Yes
AM: What did you do afterwards, not textiles?
HG: Oh dear er I did for a very short period my brother worked in the textiles then my elder brother er and I batted it out (unclear) while the money lasted you know (laughs) er eventually I had to get a job so I went there and er oh I think three or four week I’m not sticking this (laughs) and er what did I do from there oh cigarette people Ardath cigarette people they had er they were based in Leeds and I met Gladys then well we’d known each other years but we got together then and er I was there for quite a while months not years months and then we got married February 48 wasn’t it
GH: Mmm
HG: And er these people kind as they are you know oh yes you can have a week off it’s your summer holiday that’s fine as long as I can have a week off we got married had the week off and went down to Kent on our honeymoon and came back and gave my notice in (laughs) they can’t do that to Harry and er from there I went into engineering in Bradford not a very happy time because I was working with people who’d been er what do they call when they weren’t called up
AM: Erm not (unclear) to subject as if they’d been in a reserved occupation
HG: Like a reserved occupation and you’re working with these guys and (unclear) so that didn’t last very long either (laughs) er and from then I went to the Gas Board
AM: Right
HG: In 49 and er that’s been my life I suppose ever since
AM: You stayed there ever since
HG: The Gas Board er finished and had a period with the water authority and I had one spell in between the Gas Board and the water what was that er what do they call it fibre glass moulds making moulds out of fibre glass and it was the summer of 49 I don’t know if you remember it and it was absolutely scorching I think it was 49 48 48 49
GH: There weren’t many in 48
AM: Late forties must’ve been 48
HG: Yeah around 48 49 really scorching and a perspex roof and you could see all this fibre glass
AM: I was gonna say dust I would imagine it’s
HG: Floating about I though oooh Harry (laughs) get out
AM: You don’t want that on your lungs
HG: That was enough of that so from there I went to an outside job with the water authority and thankfully was able to stay there
AM: Stay there ever since
HG: Until I retired
AM: and you know you said just just going back to the bombing bit for a minute you said that at the time what everybody’s said to me we had to do it that’s what we were there for you did it
HG: That’s right
AM: But later on you did start to think about
HG: Yes you did yes you did
AM: The women and children and what have you
HG: And I think what brought that to my mind more than anything was er Munich ‘cos they really did we never went to Munich but er they really did flatten Munich and there must’ve been thousands of innocent people that died because of that and er (pause) were we doing the right thing that’s the way I thought of it later but er but at the time yes that’s what you joined up for that’s what you volunteered for they want you to do it get it done
AM: And that was to bring the war to an end
HG: That’s right yeah
AM: Excellent, I’m going to switch off now.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Harry Gough
Creator
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Annie Moody
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-09-22
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Sound
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AGoughH150922
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:30:08 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Harry Gough was born in Dewsbury, he finished school in 1939 aged fourteen, joined the Air Training Corps in 1941 and volunteered for the Air Force in 1943. He recounts his training as an air gunner and flying over the North Pole. After flying operations he was posted to Austria as an air traffic controller. He was demobbed and after the war he worked for the Gas Board and Water Authority.
Contributor
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Carron Moss
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Austria
Great Britain
Austria--Vienna
England--Shropshire
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Anglesey
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1941
1943
1944
1945
1946
10 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
crewing up
guard room
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
Initial Training Wing
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
promotion
RAF Bridlington
RAF Kinloss
RAF Marston Moor
RAF Melbourne
RAF Shawbury
RAF Valley
training
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/614/8883/PMusgroveJ1501.1.jpg
b7eca1ecabb2abfcc21142f7d37a6759
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/614/8883/AMusgroveJ150812.2.mp3
772053bb4cd364dadff721dd7f83f840
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Musgrove, Joseph
J Musgrove
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Musgrove
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Joseph Musgrove (1922 - 2017, 1450082, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as an air gunner with 214 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-12
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre, the interviewer is Annie Moodie, and the interviewee is Joe Musgrove, and the interview is taking place at Mr. Musgrove’s home in Whatton, on 12th August, 2015. So Joe just to start off will you tell me a little bit about your, where you were born and your family background and school, stuff like that?
JM: Well I was born in York in 1922, my parents were Soldney [?] people, my father unfortunately had an accident when he was sixteen and lost half an arm so I was brought to appreciate the problems of people who had lost limbs. I went to school, I was at school until I was fourteen at the Loddon School in York which is very good quality school, er, did not do very well. When I went to work I decided that my education ought to be extended a bit more and spend two days a week at night school to bring myself up to a reasonable standard.
AM: What job were you doing Joe, what job were you doing then?
JM: I was working at Rowntrees which is a factory, and just ordinary work producing what is today a Kit-Kats.
AM: What did you do at night school then, what sort of things were you doing at?
JM: Well I concentrated on English and mathematics as I thought they were two basic things in life and that did stand me in good stead when I applied to join the Air Force when I was seventeen.
AM: What made you apply to join the Air Force?
JM: The main reason I think was I didn’t want to join the Army, I didn’t want to join the Navy, obvious reasons [laughs] and the Air Force appealed. The reason why in 1936 a single engined twin wing fighter landed not very far from where I was living and that got my interest in flying which I had ever since.
AM: Right. So you joined the RAF?
JM: Yes.
AM: How old were you eighteen?
JM: I joined in 19 well I went to join in 1940, had all me exams and one thing and another, but I hadn’t realised when I first applied to join that it would be such a complicated business and that, because I spent three days at [unclear] at Cardington where the airships were, going through various tests and exams and things like that, and fortunately I did quite well so they eventually accepted me as a wireless operator/air gunner and I went and trained me on that.
AM: So what was the training like where did you do it?
JM: Well.
AM: Describe the training to me?
JM: I did a bit of everything, I went to Cardington to get kitted out and I went from there to Scar to Blackpool, for initial training, which I enjoyed, because bearing in mind at the time I was just coming up to eighteen in 19. I never been away on me own before it was quite exciting to be in Blackpool in those days, and that was the doing Morse Code and things like that. I did I think reasonably well, a very kindly flight sergeant patted me on the head and said, ‘I think you’ve passed.’ I was pleased about that, and then I went on leave. And then from there I went to a place called Madley in Herefordshire for initial flying on, can’t remember the name of the aircraft now, anyhow it was a twin engine twin plane, it was my first experience of flying which I think I enjoyed at the time you went up and down it’s a little bit rough, and I found out what air sickness was all about and that particular thing, but did quite well pass there and then I went on flying with a single engine aircraft a Percival IV [?] which was quite good. And then from there on leave, Madley by the way was the place where Rudolph Hess when he came was moved to Madley first of all from Glasgow. From there I went on leave, sounds if life’s one great leave for me isn’t it, and enjoyed it. From there I went, can you just let me have a little think. I got posted to a place called Staverton, I went to the, er, railway transport office, and he said, ‘Oh I know where it is it’s not very far from blah, blah, blah.’ So off I went down to the South Coast and on to Staverton, got off train there, empty platform, I found one of the officials there, I said, ‘How do I get to Staverton aerodrome?’ He said, ‘With a great deal of difficulty from here ‘cos you’re in the wrong county the one you want is between in Gloucestershire, between Gloucester and Cheltenham.’ So they put me up overnight and the following day to Staverton which was an aerodrome just opposite Rotols Airscrews Factory. Spent some time there, I’m not quite certain what the objective at Staverton was, did a fair bit of flying. Staverton went on leave and got posted to 102 Squadron on Halifaxes at Topcliffe. Hadn’t been there very long and then moved just the other side of York, can’t remember the name of the aerodrome now, anyhow, but wasn’t on operations I was there as part of my training.
AM: Was this the Heavy Conversion Training, Heavy Conversion Training?
JM: Yes, thoroughly enjoyed it. Went on leave from there yet again, I think my parents begin to think life is one great leave for Joseph David. And from there, oh I got posted to a place called Edgehill near Banbury, which was No. 12 Operational Training Unit. From there of course I joined the usual thing there’s twenty of us of each kind, so the cup of coffee on the lawn and get crewed up which we did.
AM: How did, how did you crew up? How did that work?
JM: Well, it’s I stood there, mostly among people of my own breed if you like [unclear] and a chappie came up to me and said, ‘Are you crewed up yet?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Well my pilot’s, a chap called Ces Brown, and I’m his navigator.’ And his name was dead fancy. ‘It would be very nice if you joined us and if you do of course we’ll have an idea we’ll just pop in the mess and have a cup of coffee and a beer later on in the day.’ And I thought, sounds good, so I joined them. And we did our OTU at Edgehill which was an aerodrome sit on like a little plateau which was a bit different but the beauty of it is, it was a farm that abutted the aerodrome that used to have a really good system whereby they give egg and bacon if you wanted it from the farm, which we did regularly. And from there on leave again, goodness, now this time it’s on my record in’t it this man goes on leave quite a lot. And got posted from there to 214 Squadron which was based at Chedburgh. Unfortunately on the way there I got robbed of my case with all my RAF papers in that I was studying nothing secret or anything like that but it was a bit of a loss to me, and joined 214 Squadron at Chedburgh not very far from Bury St. Edmonds. Stirlings Mark 3 Stirlings, I was quite pleased because I thought Mark 3’s, one or two were joining Mark 1’s and Mark 1’s were a little bit of a [intake of breath] I always thought a bit of a difficult thing they used to have a lot of swing on take-off, whereas a Mark 3 had one but not quite as serious as the other ones. So that was it I’m now operational.
AM: So what was your first operation like?
JM: Well it was gardening they always are aren’t they, cinnamon [?] which was just off the Baltic. I don’t know it’s when you’re sitting in the radio operator’s little compartment almost isolated from everybody else you don’t really know what’s going on outside, so what I used to approaching the target area stand in the astrodome and look out for people who were a little bit sort of not all that nice to us and that was the first one, it was uneventful insofar as we weren’t damaged anyway usual [unclear] shells and flak and that was my if you like introduction to operations. I didn’t find it very difficult at all.
AM: What were you doing as the radio operator, what did you do for your main things?
JM: Well it’s communications I suppose was the main thing about radio operators, [coughs] they it was an air gunner, the training for air gunnery and I missed that out ‘cos I did my air gunnery training on Walney Island which was nice.
AM: Near Barrow-in-Furness.
JM: It had a nice pub, and they had Boulton Paul Defiants which was nice, and enjoyed that, and of course at the end of it we did we went on leave. [laughs]
AM: So back to being a radio operator?
JM: Well the Boulton Paul Defiant one was [unclear] two seater fighter with a pilot and the turret just behind, quite fast aircraft. The only thing was with Boulton Paul Defiant’s, oh yes and the pilot that I had was a Pole who didn’t speak English and on the thing there’s a set of coloured lights which combination of each it meant something to him and to me but not necessary the same so on that we had a bit of a problem on there. And on them the undercarriage the hydraulics were a little bit dubious, if I can use that word [whispers], so the problem was if you wouldn’t come down sometimes you’d get one leg down and the other one not, so I used to take it up, oh he used to take it up to about seven or eight thousand feet put his nose down and pull it up and centrifugal force would force the other one down. Well I was a [unclear] and when I flew on it it always worked, and from there as I said before I went on leave and on to [?] squadron.
AM: So actually being the radio operator on the operation what sort of things did you have to do?
JM: Well the thing is [coughs], excuse me, when approaching the target when presumably no, no stuff was going to come off the radio, my skipper asked me if I’d go in the front turret which I did, interesting ‘cos when you sit on the front of an aircraft, with nobody in front of you and nobody at the side of you to me it was a little bit isolated and there’s only two guns in the front turret rather than four in the back, but it was not too bad and it is interesting ‘cos you get a good view of the target when you went over it. One or two times we had a difference of opinion with night fighters, which meant me spraying or hosing the guns.
AM: So you did actually use the guns then?
JM: But I never ever shot anybody down unfortunately so I can’t claim any credit for anything like that, and that was it. And of course we had leave from time to time. [coughs]
AM: How many operations did you do Joe?
JM: Well it was listed as eight, so I wasn’t all that lucky.
AM: And what sort, what areas did you target, where did you actually go on the operations, can you remember?
JM: I remember two gardening, one was cinnamon and the other one was off the isl, Ile du Ré on the Durant which was the entrance to a U-Boat base somewhere.
AM: Why did they call them gardening, why did they call them gardening?
JM: Well they codes we all was vegetables, like cinnamon and rose and things like that, so it was just a code gardening. It was supposed to be our introduction to operations more often than not on the second one we did which was Ile du Ré off the Durant, we got you’ve got to drop them at a certain height, certain speed, and we had two large ones and then going down along the powers that be that gave us the route didn’t take into consideration the facts, there was some anti-aircraft ships they used to have based there, um, which unfortunately for us were just a, if I can put it that way, just a little bit unfriendly.
AM: Describe unfriendly?
JM: And um, the I think it was port [unclear] and that destroyed the power supply to a lot of the instruments the navigator was using [coughs] so we used the, I can’t use his name, but it was “D”. The code you phoned when you were in trouble on the nights and the thing indicated it was night time and we asked for searchlight assistance to get us to our which couldn’t do, so they got us into Andrew’s Field which is an American station which mitchers [?] and marauders and of course we put this Stirling down there and of course we put the Stirling down there and of course the quite high the nose on a Stirling, and the following morning we got up there’s all the, a lot of American [unclear] looking up at us, with some right rude remarks being made about it. But the beauty of it was, was the er, one of my commanders’ said, [coughs] excuse me, ‘You can go into the PX’, I think it was called. A large building where you could buy all sorts of things, so we stocked up on, I think it was Lucky Strike Cigarettes, handkerchiefs and things like that. And I must say when we landed there we went for debriefing for these, they got the station education officer etcetera up who debriefed us and he said, ‘Well non-commission officers in the Air Force the American Air Force don’t have a mess separate, but nevertheless we can get you something that you’ll will enjoy.’ And we had steak and one thing and another for breakfast, and they said, ‘Did we mind.’ And I thought no I don’t mind but if they want to hang on to me for a month or two I don’t mind at all. Eventually we went back to Chedburgh.
AM: How did you get back? How did you get back did somebody come and fly you back?
JM: They sent a lorry for us.
AM: Oh right.
JM: Not a crew bus a lorry and we sat in the back of that, flying kit and everything. And when we went along people recognised what we were and waved to us and we waved back, which was like being on holiday, and we got back and we went on leave, which was nice. And at that time I’d been introduced to a young lady who eventually became my wife, and I went to London to, she was a Londoner, I went to London to see her.
AM: Where did you meet her?
JM: I met her in Banbury when I was at HEO, and there was no bus service from HEO that I remember into Banbury so I used to walk, it wasn’t very far six or seven miles something like that. And I used to walk in spend the day with Elsie, walk back, and we was on night flying, circuit, bumps and things like that, and after seven days I said to Elsie, ‘I wish you’d go back to London ‘cos I’m worn out with you here going backwards and forwards.’ But it was nice. So back to Chedburgh, on the 27th which is the Monday of September 1943, we was briefed to go to Hanover which we’d been before so we knew the way, at least I thought we knew the way to Hanover. I remember it quite well because the final turning point was at the far end of the Steinhoven [?] and I was illuminated by a white flare cascading at three thousand feet, and I thought great that’s exactly where we go on the last leg, unfortunately rather unpleasant German night fighters I think it was, they used to have two sets of night fighters who would [unclear] there’s the tamer soar which was the tame boar and the wilder soar which was the wild boar, and the wild boar it roamed with radar a little bit feared by the way came from nowhere and one of them took a fancy to having a closer look at aircraft and the rear gunner fought him off. The rear gunner, Tommy Brennan, thought he’d shot him down but I don’t think he did, the trouble with rear gunners they always think they’re are shooting people down and there not. But by that time by the time we’d been chased all over the sky we was down to about five thousand feet and we took a consensus of the crew whether should go on or turn back so we decided after come that far we’d keep going although five thousand feet was a little bit low for operating.
AM: Had you been actually shot up at by that time?
JM: Yes the port engine had caught fire which we put out with the Gravenor, the Gravenor is the fire extinguisher in the engine which you can only use once, got that out, got down say to five thousand feet and then got shot at by anti-aircraft fire which set the port outer one on fire, so we [laughs] the bomb aimer disposed of his little things and off we went back but it was pretty obvious we was losing fuel and the aircraft kept getting lower and lower and lower, and Ces Brown the pilot said, ‘We better bale out now otherwise I think it’ll blow up.’ So that’s what we did and I landed near Emden in the middle of a field, and the funny thing was I remember about it, it was a soft landing, so I thought get rid of the parachute and me flying jacket etcetera, but I couldn’t find a way out of the field because there was a ditch all the way round and there seemed to be no way above it to get out, so I went round again and the moon was shining on the water but just underneath the water was this black bridge that was covered by water. So I got across there and I thought right go to the village which was in the distance with a church, go to the last cottage then if it’s unpleasant I’m out in the continent. Well that was the principle but when I got to the village I’m walking along very carefully keeping well into the hedge and things, when a little thing was in me, me back, and a voice said something or other, I could never remember what he actually said but I knew what it meant and that was it, and he was, he was I think he was a Hageman [?] in the Luftwaffe on leave, serves me right for getting involved in [unclear], and he was saying goodnight to his girlfriend when I happened to walk past so I thought his eyes lit up and he thought, ooh I’ve got it, I’ve got it, and I was, and he actually took me to the end cottage anyhow. Got in there and there was my navigator, Ted Bounty, sitting there looking quite miserable but he did perk up when he saw me and that was it.
AM: What happened to the others, what happened to the rest of the crew do you know?
JM: Well see when you are baling out you’ve got to remember the aircraft is still moving, and I been bale out the next man might be half a mile further on, so I don’t know until we’d been to Interrogation Centre, Dulag Luft, and we met that was the first prisoner of war camp I went to which was Stalag VI in Heydekrug in Lithuania.
AM: Right. Tell me about Dulag, tell me about the interrogation part of it?
JM: So they sent him that picked us up to Emden and Emden which was a police marine barracks, him that picked us up, and of course on the films you see these motorbikes with Germans on with a sidecar, they sent one of those, well they sent two, one for Ted Bounty, and one for me, and off we went to Emden. And at that time [coughs] I had, every now and again aircrew a thing we used to do, one of them’s got money and I was the one that had money, currency, so I thought I’ve got to be careful here what I do with it, so I said to the interrogator and they all, interrogators they all look nice, very polite, but there are not. I said, ‘I’m awfully sorry but I must use the toilet.’ So they got a guard took me along and I went inside the little cubicle and he waited outside, and I thought I know what I’ll do I’ll put the money, it was one of the old fashioned toilets up there, lift the lid up put it inside and get it later on. That was a, so went back into interrogation and they in retrospect it was not any particular worry on that, they shout at you, they threatened you, [coughs] excuse me, they offer you cigarettes, in fact I was offered a drink, um, but I’ve always made a promise I would never drink if I was captured, at least I think I did. So I then was taken into a room and given some soup to keep me going and said to that person, ‘I must use the toilet.’ [unclear] fine I’ve got it back again, climbed up lifted it up it had gone, dereliction of duty I suppose you would if the commander found out but I tried hard to keep it. And then went from there after about two or three days by train to Frankfurt am Main which is near to Oberursal which is where Dulag Luft was, stopped at Cologne and there’s I’m in this compartment with two guards, and I thought oh gosh I don’t feel very safe here on the station at Cologne, but fortunately a Luftwaffe officer came in and what he demanded I don’t know but he came to sit in here with us so his presence kept everybody out.
AM: So it was the civilians that were —
JM: Yes.
AM: Was the worrying factor.
JM: So we got on to Frankfurt am Main and then on to Dulag Luft. Dulag Luft I’ve read many many accounts of people’s grief there but I didn’t find it particularly harrowing if that’s the best word for it, unpleasant yes but not harrowing. So again I was offered cigarettes and drink which I didn’t take, regretted it afterwards. And then after about a fortnight something like that, may be six or seven of us that was there, I mean you was in isolation by the way, they took us by tram to a park where there was a wooden hut and it was opposite the IG Farbernwerks [?], I always remember that and we’d got to spend the night there and there’s an air raid, and next to the hut was a German anti-aircraft gun unit, which pooped ‘em up all night, not particularly pleasant, but in retrospect not too bad anyhow. I think when you say in retrospect it means that as the years have gone by you’ve mellowed to the situation, and then from there we were transported by train, luxury train, well cattle trucks really, but they were clean. All the way and I think we spent, and I can’t be hundred per cent certain, but I think we spent two days and two nights going to across Germany to Lithuania to Luft VI Heydekrug, and then that was it. And then when the Russians moved and in July 1944 when the Russians were not all that far away they decided they’d move the camp, most of the camp went by train to Thorn in Poland, the rest of us about eight hundred British airmen and the Americans went by train to Memell just up the coast from Lithuania and boarded a little ship called “The Insterburg” there was nine hundred I think from Klage[?] in the hold that we were in. It was a, it was an old coal ship, a Russian coal ship the Germans had taken over, and I had got volunteered to help the medics at Heydekrug there, one of my problems in life is that I keep going and putting me hand at the back of me head to scratch it and every time I’ve done that I’ve volunteered for something and I apparently volunteered to help the medics. Particularly on aircrew that had had injuries to the joints and the joints become sort of locked with adhesions of the joints, and my job was sort of try to break them down, which was interesting on that. So I had a Red Cross Armband and when I got on “The Insterburg” I said, pointed to it and the just tore it off and backed me down [laughs], and it was a twenty foot ladder, steel ladder into the, and we was on “The Insterburg” I think can’t remember exactly three or two days and nights on that, and then we landed at Swinemünde the German Naval Base at Swinemünde. When the what appeared to be an air raid but it was an individual American aircraft, [unclear], and went from there to Kiefheide, Kiefheide Station where we was going to go onto Gross Tychow which was Luft IV, and when they eventually the following morning got us out they had Police Marine [?] men or mainly boys in running shorts and vests with fixed bayonets and some of the Luftwaffe with dogs and a chap whose name was Hauptman Pickard, I always remember, and he was stood on the back seat of a Kugelwagen which was like a German little vehicle, and shouting all sorts of things [unclear] move you to Gross Tychow Camp at a reasonably fast pace with jabbing and one thing and another and dogs biting, and a thought that occurred to me was that I’d rather be on leave right now than doing this. And it was not all that far about four kilometres from Kiefheide Station to Gross Tychow but we had lots of casualties.
AM: On the way or you had casualties that you were taking with you?
JM: Well the instructions apparently mean to the police moving people, you can do what you like but you must not kill anybody, but that gave them carte blanche to knock hell out of us. Luckily I wasn’t too bad. So when we got there we found that the camp wasn’t even finished, we slept the first night in the open. The toilet arrangement in those days were a little bit suspect and it comprised, I shouldn’t really say this, a big trench with a [unclear] over it. And then the following day we was like in we call them dog kennels, small wooden huts, we slept in there for a few nights until they got the permanent ones done and that was Gross Tychow. It was of all the camps I was in the worst of the whole lot.
AM: Worse because of the conditions or the —
JM: Well, Prisoner of War Camps are governed mainly by the people running them, they can be nice or they can be nasty, at Heydekrug there were some about average they weren’t too bad at all, Gross Tychow they were awful to any of us.
AM: Awful in what way?
JM: Well bullying and things like that, but the food wasn’t very good, didn’t have much of it. There was a man there who was six foot three, or six foot four something like that, we used to call him the big stoop, largely because I think he was a little bit embarrassed by his height and he used to walk in a stoop. He was the one that took by wristwatch, he was the one that used to knock people over and things like that. But for every villain there’s always a day of comeuppance isn’t there and when we moved out on the march towards the end of the war the Americans found him and they’d taken his head off and that was that he’d got his comeuppance didn’t he. The end of the war.
AM: Tell me about the march then?
JM: Well in February, I think it was February 2nd, they made out we had been pre-warned we hadn’t been pre-warned they told us at midnight they was moving out the following day. So you’d got to prepare everything take everything with you that you can take, and most of the people got a spare shirt, sometimes you had a spare shirt, tie the up, the arms up and button it up and it made a nice little receptacle put your things in there, and the following morning we went on the march, it was I think it was eleven o’clock if I remember rightly. And we went from Gross Tychow on the northern run to the Oder to cross the Oder, the Russians were the other side of Statin further down the Oder, and we had to take, we had to get across and what they did for the ones I was with you went into barges, there was two barges tied together and you was towed across the Oder to the other side. Unfortunately the night before when we got there the Germans said, ‘We’ve got nowhere for you to stay for the night.’ It had been snowing so we had to sleep in the open, but being aircrew boasting to the, we worked out what to do, so there’s some like a cloudy fern at the side, got those down tried to sweep away a bit of snow off, we had overcoats on.
AM: Did you have boots, did you have boots on?
JM: Oh yeah, oh shoes, in those days we’d been, well [coughs] usually when you get shot down you lose your flying boots. So the following morning I say they moved us across by barge and then we had to, we found out afterwards of course that the reason for the panic they was frightened the Russians would catch up with us, whether they was ever in a position to do that I don’t know, but the Germans obviously thought that they did. So then we went on the march across Northern Germany, various places, enjoying it, looking at Germany through the eyes of a hitchhiker. [laughs]
AM: You don’t really mean enjoying it?
JM: Well yes, but it, um, there was too many incidents happened there.
AM: What was it like, what was, ‘cos it’s cold?
JM: Well it had been snowing, remember we set out in February.
AM: Yes.
JM: And it was a cold winter. By the time we got to Fallingbostel the weather was getting better.
AM: What did you eat, what did you eat and drink?
JM: Well that’s a problem, I’ve got the world’s worst memory, so I don’t remember a lot. The two things you must do is you must get sleep and you must have liquids, liquids was a very difficult thing, some of the times the Germans got us liquids a lot of the times they didn’t. When there was snow about if you were lucky enough to get a snow that was still clean it would melt in your mouth, but that causes dysentery anyhow, I know [whispers] that’s the other problem. But, to be honest a lot of the time they found us barns and things like that to sleep in. What you had to remember at that time, March and April of 1945 it was mostly British fighter planes in the air which were having a good time, and one of the barns I was in got shot at and set on fire.
AM: How did you all get out?
JM: One or two people got killed.
AM: Did they?
JM: But to be honest the Germans tried to find us somewhere, but I’m afraid Royal Air Force fighter pilots were seeing something that’s a good target they went for it. [coughs] Fortunately we got to Fallingbostel eventually sometime in April if I remember rightly.
AM: So two months.
JM: We was then there for a couple of days on the station, the man in charge of Fallingbostel decided it was overcrowded so our little lot was moved out again on the road to Lubeck, which we went to, was one or two incidents on the way. But the man I was with, if you in the thing you’ve got to have a friend who you are with and Danny was one of mine, and Danny said to me, ‘Why don’t we just nip out sometime when we stop if there’s a time when we can do it safely.’ And there came one of those times and we just, Danny and I nipped out across the field into the woods and that was it, spent a little bit of the time keeping had to get through the German lines and through the British lines which we did when we got to the Elbe, across the Elbe.
AM: Just the two of you?
JM: Yeah, on a boat there was no oars but the hands work for oars don’t they.
AM: And did you know what you were making for that, did you know that you would find the British lines?
JM: Well not really we know the direction roughly and we’d got ears that tell you a lot, we got, there was only one time where we was in a little bit of trouble, we spent the night in a barn that didn’t have a roof but it was a barn so Dan and I spent the night in there and the village further down about two kilometres further down it was a village where there were German half-tracks and things and logic would say that they should be moving east which meant they wouldn’t come our way they’d go east and we were north of them, so we decided, we saw them moving to go so we decided we would go to the village. Unfortunately they decided to go our way north instead of going east, and it was not a lot of them I remember a Mark IV type of tank was pulling two lorries and there’s half-tracks with Germans at the back and we’re going along and they’re coming and there’s no point in running away doing anything like that, and our jackets were already prepared, chevrons everything was pulled off so there’s nothing, so we just kept on walking and we had a like a French conversation, and if they knew it was French they would have wondered what language we were talking it certainly wasn’t French but it sounded like it, and luckily they were so keen to get away they just ignored us and we just kept on going, and we just kept on going, and going, and going, eating what we could and we eventually came across an aerodrome that had some Dakotas, we went on an RAF pilot we collared him.
AM: What did you think when you finally saw it?
JM: Eh?
AM: What did you think when you finally saw it there?
JM: Well, well, contrary to what other people have said it didn’t make a lot of difference to me. It was just something was happening at the time, the fact that it was the if you like the starting point of going out didn’t occur to us, the RAF pilot he said he was on some sort of exercise for evacuation of prisoners of war, and he was, he did say he that they was taking people like to me somewhere in Belgium for transit, but he said I’m not going that way I’m going direct to Great Britain. And we talked him into taking us and he flew from there to Wing near Aylesbury, I think as part of an exercise sort of, and we got to Wing and that was the nice part. When we was coming towards, they all take you over the white cliffs of Dover don’t they you see that, and he couldn’t head them ‘cos you can’t see much so he said ‘I’ll bank to port and you can all go that side and have a look, anyway he said for goodness sake go back again the balance of the aircraft is all over.’ We got to Wing and unloaded us, Danny and I, I remember [coughs] there was WAAFS and all sorts of things, there was two rather large Salvation Army ladies I remember quite clearly came across and lifted us both up and swung us round said a lot I think then we went inside the hangar where all sorts of people came and cuddled you and things like that, yeah that was a nice thing. And one lady said to me I can send a telegram to your parents if you like, give me all the details which I did and they sent a telegram off to my mum and dad saying I was here. So we had something to eat, I always like this because you see they have all this food out and when you get a plate full suddenly a doctor comes along and takes half of it back you know, saying, ‘You mustn’t eat too much.’ And we went from there to Cosford which was set up as a reception centre, had medicals and things like that, and the station commander apparently if I believe what I’m told, given me concerning reception a chat on how to treat ex-prisoners of war and one of the things what he apparently said if I’m to believe what I’m told, ‘For goodness sake don’t leave anything lying about you’ll find it disappears you know.’ Whether that was true or not I don’t know could well have been ‘cos I was the only judge of a lot of people you live on your wits don’t you. And then after I’d been there for some time there was one little amusing incident you had to see a doctor before you could do anything you had to see a doctor, and that’s after you had been deloused that’s one of the things you get done, deloused straight up. And there was five cubicles and the word got around there’s four male doctors and one female doctor, everybody’s trying to work out where the female doctor was to avoid that one, and we, I can’t remember, say cubicle four, and this cubicle four came up you were next you used to say, ‘You go before me I’m not in a rush.’ And I got pushed into cubicle four and it was a lady doctor, mind you she was getting on a bit she was a nice lady, but it was funny the way people were avoiding her simply because they’d been away all that time. And then we were carted off [coughs] to the station, I remember it quite well it was just an ordinary little local train that went from Cosford to Birmingham, two stations at Birmingham, Snow Hill, and I can’t remember the other one.
AM: New Street, New Street, its New Street now in’t it?
JM: So we did that and when we got on the train that was going north there was just one carriage, there was an RAF policeman at either end of it and that was reserved for people like me, the train was absolutely crowded but our coach wasn’t and nice young ladies served refreshment all the time. And I got to York Station, I’d already notified Elsie my future wife and she was at York Station, and all the time I was in Germany I imagined meeting Elsie it’s a step bridge across the rails at York Station, [unclear] slow motion on that like if you’re on the films, looking forward to this, so I’m going slowly towards Elsie and she went straight past me, I remember that I thought oh dear all that time she doesn’t recognise me, it’s something you remember isn’t it, and that and at the other side there’s my sister and her husband so that was it. And I had instructions to go to the RAF York aerodrome there to see the medical officer which I did and he gave me a form to go to the food office in York, and the following day I went. A man said, ‘Join that queue.’ So I joined the queue, it was in the Assembly Rooms in York which is a lovely place, and I’m in this queue and it occurred to me there’s all pregnant women, there’s all pregnant women getting extra rations, people patting me on the back and one thing and another and I always remember that, and that was it I was back in York.
AM: Back in York, on leave.
JM: [laughs] On leave, yeah, yeah, ubiquitous leave.
AM: What happened after that then up to being demobbed how long?
JM: Well I got, er I don’t think you know that most aircrew, nearly all of them had a rehabilitation period and mine was at an aerodrome off the A1, can’t remember the name of it.
AM: No don’t matter.
JM: Doesn’t really matter, anyway I was there for a month and it just so happened the Royal Air Force band was based there so we had music, and for that four weeks what it consists of Friday morning we got up quite early and the station commander had arranged for a Queen Mary to be there on the grounds we had to go to London for some reason.
AM: Queen Mary, is that the big truck?
JM: Yes.
AM: The big open truck.
JM: And about twenty of us climbed on there and went all the way from the station about fifty miles into London on that, and we had to meet at a certain time to get back and coming back and we did that for four weeks until I got on leave yet again, to arrange the wedding with Elsie.
AM: So she’d recognised you by then?
JM: Oh yes I’d put a bit of weight on and that [laughs] yeah, and took a long time to live it down. So from there where did I go, oh I went to Compton Bassett. They decided to put me on a code and cipher course so I went and code and ciphered Compton Bassett. I was the only warrant officer there, there was all flight lieutenants and squadron leaders going to be code and cipher officers which apparently I was destined to be. So I did that and now I’m a code and cipher officer aren’t I, had to go before the board for a commission and they said, ‘The posting will be to the Middle East they’re looking for code and cipher officers.’ So next time, I got every weekend off, so I’m coming back to London to Elsie and I said I’d been offered a commission but it’s a posting to Middle East code and cipher officer, and Elsie said, ‘No way.’ So I had to turn it down. So then they thought well what do we do with him so they had to [coughs] we had a party for the people who passed the code and cipher officer, and I’m sitting next to a civilian and I said to him, ‘It’s a little bit of an impasse I’m not quite certain what to do.’ And explained the circumstances to him, so he said, ‘Write to the air officer commanding training command for this particular region and apply for a compassionate posting to where you want to go.’ Said, ‘That’s fine I don’t know who the air officer commanding is?’ And he said, ‘Oh it happens to be me.’ So he was, I got to meet him he was coming to Compton Bassett for some reason and I had an interview with him and I said, ‘Well my wife is living in Golders Green which is only two stations off Hendon, Hendon would be a nice place.’ So I got a posting to Hendon and they say what the hell do you do with him. It was nice posting, nine to five Monday to Friday living hours, most enjoyable, 24 Squadron which had the Curtiss every now and then unofficially I used to join one of them and go flying. And then I got I think July 1944 I went to Oxbridge and got demobbed.
AM: ‘45.
JM: ‘44, ’45, ’46.
AM: ’46 we’ve moved on one.
JM: Well you’re allowed a mistake now and then.
AM: Yeah go on then.
JM: And got demobbed and got involved in getting a suit. I think Burtons made a lot of them.
AM: Montague Burtons.
JM: Montague Burtons. Some of them were really quite nice, I think I wore it once, it’s the material was nice the cut not particular, but I’m demobbed anyhow. And the company I used to work for before I went in the Air Force wrote to me to say there’s a job waiting for you.
AM: Is this Rowntrees?
JM: Yeah. So I wrote back and I said, ‘I don’t mind working for you but I want to work in London ‘cos my future wife lives in London.’ They said they can’t do that. The problem is when you come out the Air Force you don’t take very kindly to being instructed and when they said we can give you a job but not especially where you want it, so I said ‘I don’t want it.’ So I went to find a job in London and I was offered a job, the people who make fridges, and they made big American ones, but the problem was the job was stores controller and the man was doing it already but he was not retiring until September October and this was early in the year. So I got a job with Express Dairy which was a place quite close to where Elsie lived and thought I’ll have that job until I get the other one, but enjoyed working at Express so much then I wouldn’t leave although the difference in salaries was quite high, and I worked for Express Dairy for all my working life, and they were taken over by various firms but I still worked for them. And one of the problems if you got taken over if it’s two people doing the same job one of them’s going.
AM: Yes.
JM: And the one that’s going is the one in the highest salary.
AM: Yes.
JM: And I kept on being retained, and I said to Elsie, ‘Must mean that my salary is too low.’ I got offered a job at the main site at Ruislip, the job was in charge of warehousing and things like that, and they said well, and then I had a heart attack everybody does if you’ve got a do you’ve got to have one if you’re in a fashion[?], and I had three months off and the chairman called me and said, ‘You mustn’t go back on this job and I’ll sort it and we’ve found a nice little job for you working as PA assistant for the director who was responsible for production.’ And that’s what I did.
AM: And that’s what you did.
JM: And Dennis Watson was my boss, well nothings been written yet so you’ve got to sit down and write your job description will go from there so that’s what I did. I spent the rest of my time on that job.
AM: As PA.
JM: And his responsibility was keeping an eye on [unclear] functions and things like that and decided on systems, his, and we had seven factories up and down the country. One of my jobs was to visit ‘em now and again, and now and again meant to me when you’re a little bit fed up you get in the car and off you go to a factory and that’s what I used to do. And then when I retired my boss Dennis made a big party at Ruislip and there was about a hundred of us there, and that was it.
AM: And that was it.
JM: Yeah.
AM: I’m going to switch off now Joe.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Joseph Musgrove
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Annie Moody
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-12
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMusgroveJ150812
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Format
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01:11:32 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Born in York in 1922, Joseph left school at 14 and started work in a chocolate factory and attended two nights of further education per week. In 1936, a fighter aircraft had landed nearby which stimulated his interest in flying which he retained all his life. After joining the RAF he did well in the selection tests and was offered a position of wireless operator/air gunner. After initial training he went to RAF Madley to train on twin-engined aircraft and then RAF Staverton, RAF Topcliffe and was crewed up at the operational training unit at RAF Edgehill. Gunnery training was carried out on Defiant which were notorious for undercarriage issues. Finally he was posted to 214 squadron at RAF Chedburgh, flying Stirlings.
His first operation was minelaying in the Baltic and he recalls standing in the astrodome to warn of enemy fighters. On other operations he would sit in the front turret and occasionally fire at enemy fighters, without success. Further minelaying operations were carried out and on his eighth, his aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire and diverted to a US Army Air Force airfield where he stocked up on goodies, unavailable in England from the base exchange store.
On the 22 September 1943 he took part to an operation to Hanover and describes the night fighter tactics in detail. Following lengthy evasive action his aircraft was forced down to 5,000 feet where it was hit by by anti-aircraft fire and he was forced to bail out over Emden where he was caught by a member of the Luftwaffe who was visiting his girlfriend. After initial interrogation he was sent to the interrogation centre at Dalag Luft and after a two day train journey arrived at Stalag 5 prisoner of war camp.
On July 1944 the encroaching Russian army forced the evacuation of the camp and he was moved to the unfinished Luft 4 camp and remembers the bullying guards and poor conditions. Again in February 1945 the camp was evacuated and after crossing the River Oder in barges marched across northern Germany. After two months he arrived at Lübeck and escaped the column, narrowly missing being captured by German soldiers by conversing in French. Finding an allied airfield he was repatriated to England where he was treated as a hero.
After recuperation he attended a code and cipher course and was offered a commission if he would go to the middle-east. Wanting to get married he declined and wangled his way to 24 Squadron at RAF Hendon, were he was eventually demobbed in July 1946.
Contributor
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Terry Holmes
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Gloucestershire
England--Herefordshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
England--London
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Emden (Lower Saxony)
Germany
Europe--Oder River
Germany--Lübeck
Poland
Poland--Tychowo
Lithuania
Lithuania--Šilutė
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1936
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1943-09-22
1944-07
1945-02
1946-07
102 Squadron
214 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
animal
bale out
bombing
crewing up
Defiant
demobilisation
Dulag Luft
Halifax
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Madley
RAF Shenington
RAF Staverton
RAF Topcliffe
shot down
Stalag Luft 4
Stalag Luft 6
Stirling
strafing
the long march
training
wireless operator
-
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1205/11778/AWilsonG-T150816.1.mp3
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1205/11778/PWilsonT1501.2.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wilson, Tom
T Wilson
Wilson, Gabi
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Gabi Wilson (b. 1927) and Warrant Officer Tom Wilson (Royal Air Force) and a photograph. Gabi Wilson was a civilian in Germany during the war. Tom flew as a navigator on Wellingtons of 192 Squadron. He was shot down over the Hague and taken prisoner and went to Stalag Luft III.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-16
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wilson, T-G
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AM: Ok. What I’m going to do is just introduce us first.
GW: Yeah.
AM: So this interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Annie Moody and the interviewee is Gabby Wilson.
GW: Yeah.
AM: And the interview is taking place at Mrs Wilson’s home in Coleshill near Birmingham today, the, Sunday the 16th of August 2015.
GW: Yeah, I think people prefer Warwickshire, I’m sorry.
AM: Warwickshire, oh better than Birmingham, ok, a better postal code. So, Gabby tell me a little bit about, your, just a little bit about your childhood.
GW: Right.
AM: And where you were born.
GW: My childhood was unusual because my father had lost his sight. He was a regular army officer in the Prussian Army and he lost his sight in November ’14. Straightway decided to start a new life, went to Berlin University aided by his batman at first, said to the batman, ‘Introduce me to that girl with the beautiful laugh’ and that is my mother who gave up her studies and we had a very happy childhood, four children and I was the youngest of four.
AM: Fabulous, where did, whereabouts did you live Gabby?
GW: Oh Berlin.
AM: In Berlin.
GW: It was yes. It was, yes, Berlin. It was Berlin University and my parents got an apartment in a place founded by Frederick the Great for invalided soldiers and there was, built in 1912, an officer’s apartment halls and a large, large garden. I would think four to six times as large as this.
AM: And this one’s quite big.
GW: Yeah, yes.
AM: Ok and what about school? Where did you go to school?
GW: I went to school, to the local primary school at first and then to the, what’s called, well what would be grammar school and we had to go do a tram ride to get to that one so that was but of course taking my father about, although he was very independent we were well dealt with we knew about traffic, we were fine. I think I took my father across the road, a quiet road but still, when I was three.
AM: Three years old.
GW: Yes. He would say, he was always in command, which was very good. The whole complex was moved out in ’39 just outside Berlin, still Berlin but the absolute edge, which was a blessing of course with the bombing and everything.
AM: Was it moved out because of the —
GW: No.
AM: No.
GW: No, no, it was because the complex in Berlin was being, going to be used for the Military Medical Corps for training and so on. So we were pushed out there, very inconvenient for, particularly for all those with jobs. It was a fifteen to twenty minutes walk to the suburban station and then three quarters of an hour, half an hour, three quarters of an hour into the city, which my father, who had got his degree and was manager of one blind organisation for war wounded and another one for civilians where it was particularly seeing to jobs. That they had jobs, the usual blind jobs but more than that, it was a university with extra courses. My father went into town every day and we bought, in fact, we bought a tandem and learned to be in front with a heavy father at the back. I know my mother and I was, it was not easy at first, later it was fine.
AM: How old were you?
GW: I was then eleven, twelvish.
AM: Eleven.
GW: And it had a little, two little clips and if I had, I had to have my father’s permission. I had to ask him because he would notice it. If it was just a plain road, not up or down, perhaps down a little bit I could put my feet on there and he would do the pedalling himself, [laugh] so that was, that was great. We went swimming every day. When we were in, lived in the centre of the city there were open air swimming pools but then we went and swam in a dead arm of a river.
AM: Ok.
GW: We would cycle half an hour to that spot and there was what was called a dead arm where they stored logs and that’s where we would bathe and my father, incredibly brave, he’d just rely on us for those but yeah he loved that. So for us, really I mean for all of us, this move out which we’d cursed because it was so far out from anything that was going on then was a blessing of course as the war went on. So that was my childhood.
AM: That was your childhood.
GW: With a very, well my mother had given up her studies but very bright, intelligent. It was that lovely, with two older brothers both very bright, one older sister, very happy family life.
AM: Lovely, it sounds lovely.
GW: Yes, yes.
AM: And then the war came.
GW: Well the war at first didn’t touch us one bit, for a long time. We had air raid shelters and we would go down and we had banks in it but nothing happened. We heard the planes follow the S [unclear] line in to Berlin and out and that was it but no, I wasn’t there at the end of the war because we were, I would have reached the last year at the school and we were all sent out to be called up by the, there was the organisation the Arbeitsdienst. It was a Nazi, well, organisation where every girl had to do, I think, a half a year. My sister had to do it but instead of it we were supposed to be called up but they forgot me because, oh yes because of the Berlin schools were evacuated and so my mother sent me to a boarding school in Potsdam which is just outside Berlin.
AM: Yes, yeah.
GW: Which, in a peninsula, paradise.
AM: So your memory of it, apart from hearing the planes, is being in paradise.
GW: Yes.
AM: In Potsdam.
GW: Even we didn’t, that wasn’t in the flight path then but we just had if there had been a long air raid we would have lessons either cut off or later, to get a bit more sleep but that was a very, very lovely time and then we were supposed to be sent home, supposed to be called up. Nobody called for me but I knew that girls were used to train young horses and I’d done a bit of riding, not very much. So I thought that rather than be called up I got into that and my record for falling off was six times one morning.
AM: In one morning, what were the horses being?
GW: Between six and the eleven, well they were very young.
AM: What were they trained for?
GW: They were trained you see but since they weren’t on full rations they were comparatively very mild. They hadn’t got the strength to —
AM: Ok.
GW: To be naughty. [Laughs}
AM: Were you on rations during the war? Your family?
GW: Sorry?
AM: Were your family on limited rations during the war?
GW: Yes but my mother was a very good manager with the garden and things. We didn’t starve, food was a bit boring, the hard time came after the war. Now, it sounds perhaps cruel but my father, now you’d think it’s nothing, he was seventy but he couldn’t, it took three hours to get into Berlin after the war because the Russians had taken tracks back. Don’t think I’m blaming them, they had suffered enough and so the train journey wasn’t smooth. It had to go on to the side to let the other one past, long journey into Berlin but my father still tried to work but it didn’t work and he died, I mean he had got a dicky heart and he died in October ‘45.
AM: ’45.
GW: The winter.
AM: So right at the end of the war then.
GW: The winter would have been, the winter of ‘46 was the worst, ‘46/47 for rations, so he that would have been a very, very hard time.
AM: What happened to your two older brothers?
GW: My oldest brother had, after leaving school they had to do half a year in something called Arbeitsdienst, some organisation.
AM: What does that mean?
GW: Well they had to dig things. It was a sort of supposed to be a bit of Nazi education or what but what did he [pause] well he didn’t, he didn’t work of course, he was good in three languages so he was an interpreter. It was, yes, ’36 Olympics.
AM: Ok.
GW: He walked about with three bands; French, English, Italian [laughs]
AM: How wonderful.
GW: And had a marvellous time.
AM: I would imagine he did.
GW: And the other one was too young, the other one was taken prisoner in March ’45 in, in Russia, in the Soviet Union.
AM: So they were both in the army.
GW: Yes, yes. The older one was a sort of pulled in straight away, the younger one then later when he was old enough and he spent four and a half years in a Soviet prison camp. So that —
AM: Gosh.
GW: But when Tom and he met they talked about prison camps. [laughs]
AM: I can imagine. I don’t know, well —
GW: Well no, the Russian one was worse but both had learned as much as they could, Tom had learned German, my brother had learned all sorts of things. They used their time, there were ways that they learned that but he came home in [pause] ’48 or ‘49 I think.
AM: So he was still in the prisoner of war camp right up to 1949?
GW: Yes.
AM: Gosh.
GW: Yes, yes and if you, well you can always cut out, can’t you? At that time quite a few prisoners were coming home and they were announced who would arrive in Berlin next morning. That was around, announced on the radio at 10 o’clock at night and my mother who then worked for Quakers and we’d moved. Her first job, her first job she ever had but wonderful. Well, my mother just got home at 10 o’clock, turned the wireless on, heard my brother’s name and so didn’t know whether it was hallucination or what was this, a few minutes, a few pebbles at the window, the parson, the local parson had listened in and he came to tell her. Wonderful wasn’t it?
AM: You’re making me cry.
GW: Yes, well wonderful that, I mean, that was great. So now by that time I had been in West Germany but I came home and there he was, wonderful. He tried [pause] yes he tried some social work training and he was [pause] it was far, I mean, he was far too clever for that sort of level the training and then he remembered before he was called up he had done a term or two at the Institute for Dramatic Studies and that counted as having been at university then and so he got in again, because it was still a long, long waiting list to get in to university. So he got in, in his second term he did research and got his doctorate, Professor, Professor of Sociology and quite fantastic, wrote books and —
AM: Wonderful.
GW: Still stayed the nice big brother.
AM: And where —
GW: But he then died. Yes.
AM: Where did you meet Tom?
GW: Tom, I met at this, my mother worked at a Quaker centre run by Americans and they had arranged, they called it a seminar, youngsters from all sorts of countries coming together and having lectures and doing things together. Now Tom had been doing, Tom had got a science degree really but after the war he, he got in to Cambridge doing German and Russian and he’d gone to a seminar in Germany and the Americans, they had education officers because Germany hadn’t got a government or anything.
AM: What year was this Gabby?
GW: I beg your pardon.
AM: What year was this?
GW: That would have been in forty, did he come in ’48 or, yes, ’47 or ’48 and he went. Well, after he’d done a degree in German here first and then went to a seminar because, to get some practice and the American education officer took a shine to him because most of the young Americans on that course went into the woods with the frauleins rather than go to lectures [laughs] So she suggested that he go to Berlin to this seminar. So that’s how we met. Yes, that’s when I had evenings.
AM: So you were there as a student or?
GW: No.
AM: No.
GW: No. I’d done, well my, two of the leaving certificates were supposed to have been given to me because I couldn’t have been going on. So I was doing, had I started at that? I started an apprenticeship at a publishing firm.
AM: Ok.
GW: And my mother was there as, they called her hausmutter. You know, she looked after people at that centre and so that’s how I came to come to those open evenings and as far as I’m concerned it was love at first sight.
AM: Wonderful.
GW: And then my tactful mother gave me a photo of all of them [laughs] when they went and then Tom wrote because he wanted a girlfriend to form a correspondence with some girl but that was a sort of a bit of getting into contact and so we started writing to each other and he came to Berlin at Christmas. Nothing nearly happened because he and my brother who had just come home were comparing notes.
AM: About being prisoners of war.
GW: Yes but it did happen and we got married and I came here in 1950.
AM: And here you are.
GW: So that was —
AM: And you’ve been here ever since.
GW: Yes. Well —
AM: Were people ok with you when you came? You know the fact that you were German, that it was fairly soon after the war.
GW: I was pretty, I was pretty fluent in English.
AM: Ok.
GW: Because for some silly reason because English is easier to start with certainly and it used to be first foreign language French but it had been changed to English so I’d done seven years or six or so years of English. So, no, I was pretty, pretty good at it.
AM: Good.
GW: Yes.
AM: And people were ok.
GW: People were fine, people were fine. There was another German and I and we once had letters, both of us and that was the only thing we’ve ever had.
AM: Nasty letters you mean?
GW: Yes, yes.
AM: Yeah.
GW: No idea what that was. No, people were fine.
AM: Good.
GW: Of course by that time Tom had done two years teaching when we got married, so he was established, that was near London, in Essex. Yes, two years and then he got a headship because of all of his, you know, qualifications and things.
AM: Ok.
GW: They wanted these, it was a grammar school of course, they wanted it to have a technical bias, which he was equipped for with his engineering degree.
AM: Yeah.
GW: And then of course it changed here but we had a very happy time in Coleshill.
AM: In this lovely house.
GW: Well that, of course, that was a widow, we think and of course it’s a relatively big house, we think that they had hoped to have a family and didn’t and we bought it off the widow.
AM: So you bought it.
GW: Which was sad for them because, but wonderful for ours.
AM: I’m going to switch the recording off and get Tom’s story.
GW: Yes.
AM: Of how he met you.
GW: Right.
AM: He got married in ’45.
GW: So your older brother, he was, who was he an interpreter for?
AM: Oh Americans.
GW: Ok.
AM: He was in the American part of Germany, you know, they were —
GW: You said that he spoke the languages.
AM: They were divided in to four parts.
GW: Yes.
AM: And he was in the American part and he married in ’45 and that family they couldn’t imagine him to go on studying and then, no. Having very restricted life with not much money so he didn’t, he didn’t get on, he was an interpreter, had good jobs but nothing compared with the little brother who’d always been in the shadow and then became a well known person so it was a bit hard for him.
GW: Yeah.
AM: So your sister.
GW: Yes, yes, my sister was in Berlin when the Russians came.
AM: Oh.
GW: And the, where we lived was the most northern tip of Berlin. So the first tip that many Russian soldiers got to and you can imagine that they went crazy but my mother, who was very clever managed to hide; my sister, a cousin, our maid and herself, in all sorts of places. So they all escaped the attention of the Russians, it was, it was fantastic.
AM: I’m guessing it was dreadful though.
GW: Oh, terrible yes. I didn’t know anything about them for six months.
AM: Remind me where were you at that time?
GW: I was in West, I was in West Germany you see. I’d gone to my mother’s best friend in the end.
AM: Ok.
GW: There was an uncle but he obviously didn’t want any more in his household because things were short but there was my mother’s best friend and I was absolutely convinced she would take me and I, so I set off to see her. Train journey from Dortmund, which is Cologne area to where she lived, Frankfurt which was only in the middle, took five days.
AM: Five days?
GW: Yeah.
AM: Good Lord.
GW: Mainly on goods trains and things. Now, for a youngster without children to care or old people to care or things see, it wasn’t, it wasn’t such a hardship.
AM: Was it an adventure?
GW: Exactly.
AM: So how old were you then?
GW: Yes, yes.
AM: You would be?
GW: I was seventeen.
AM: Seventeen.
GW: Had I [pause] Or had I, no, I was just eighteen, yes, yes.
AM: Yes.
GW: So I went to this friend in Frankfurt and then there was an exchange of people going from the east to the west in the morning and west to east in the afternoon, something strange, of crowds to let people get home and I did that.
AM: This was before the wall of course, before the wall was built.
GW: Oh yes, before the wall, yes, yes.
AM: But still you had to go across the sectors.
GW: Yes. Oh yes they were. Oh yes they had, you had to have permits for instance to get into the west, in to the American part also. It wasn’t, it wasn’t all open but I got through and I got to Berlin and I went back to school and the headmistress, about that height, had started school again about three weeks after the end of the war, fantastic woman. So, and of course we were all, all hungry. We were all had difficult times and if somebody said, ‘We’re going, I’m sorry I can’t come to school we’re going to try to get some potatoes,’ kind of travelling to that. Everybody said, ‘Good luck.’
AM: Bring us some.
GW: Yes.
AM: Yeah.
GW: Yes, yes. So I then, did I go straight, oh no, I worked for a publishing firm as an apprentice. Germany has always apprentices and exams in anything and I did the apprenticeship and did the exam but by then the university started. The university was the main, the university had been in the east, but freie universitat, free university, started off in the west and I managed to get in to that and started studying there. So that but then I didn’t complete my degree because in Germany you go on and on and on and then when you think you’re ready to go you got to a professor and think, ‘I think I’m ready.’ Quite unorganised [laughs] so I came, we got married and I have got an Open University degree.
AM: Have you now? Wonderful.
GW: Yeah. So I’ve got that.
[recording paused]
GW: I’ve been ‘36 or ’37, ’38 would have been, my father, who used to write a diary said that thirteen boys from my brother’s class were continuing their education abroad and that was in ’33.
AM: In ’33.
GW: And thirteen left.
AM: Crikey, right, right. Your turn, your turn Tom.
[pause]
AM: Can I introduce it first? So this interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Annie Moody and the interviewee is Tom Wilson and the interview is taking place at Tom’s home in Coleshill in Warwickshire on Sunday the 16th of August.
TW: And you’re from the north.
AM: I am, I’m from near Manchester.
TW: Are you?
AM: I am.
TW: See when you got there it was hooome.
AM: Oh right. Hooome hoome.
TW: It hit me [laughs]
AM: Tom, tell me a little bit about where you were born and your childhood. Just a little bit about when you were born and your childhood.
TW: Right, New Zealand parents, both families had emigrated in the 1880s and father went to university in New Zealand and eventually became a Doctor of Science in electrical engineering and that’s important because I’d gone to Bishop Vesey’s Grammar School here. I’d been a sergeant in the OTC and my inclination was join up straight away when the war started. My father was dead against that because he, he’d been an electrical engineer in New Zealand and he’d been whipped off to England in 1915 as a researcher into the German war effort and so I wanted to join up immediately the war started and he said, ‘No fear, Engineers aren’t cheap cannon fodder’ and father had gone on working on German, secret scientific things right, really I suppose until, until the [pause] he was in charge of a big research place belonging to GEC, General Electric Company and they were doing work for Britain. I think, right until he died more or less and so the idea of my joining up in the infantry struck him as being absolutely fantastic stupid.
AM: Right.
TW: And I ought to be working in research or something and in fact, what I’d done was in 1939 I’d started a university course in electrical engineering which was father’s racket and I went on working at that and from time to time on secret things until my, kind of hero at school was killed. He didn’t come home from, he was flying a Spitfire, Spitfires and he didn’t come home from Brest after a big Bomber Command attack on Brest and a on the, the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were there then and so that’s what father had been involved in. Whereas my inclination, having been in the OTC, having all the time been infantry, was to join the infantry right against father. At any rate, what happened was, he insisted that I did the engineering course, electrical engineering course at Birmingham University which I did until, one of my, kind of, best friends or heroes from the Corps at Bishop Vesey’s, he didn’t come back from an intelligence. He was flying Spitfires and he didn’t come back from a trip to Brest. Taking photographs there of course of everything that was there and when that happened I immediately went to cycle in to Birmingham from the university and volunteered for the air force and the air force took me on in the first civilian entry of students working on radar.
AM: Ok.
TW: On airborne radar and I stayed working with that until Bob Ayers was killed and I then immediately joined the air force and so I had two years working on manufacture of, and design and everything else of British airborne radar.
AM: Right.
TW: And when I volunteered for that I was trained first of all and then sent off to fly on a special duty squadron in Northern Ireland and having done three months on that I did, went on to a special duty squadron in Scotland and then I was shot down from there.
AM: How many, how many operations did you actually do? Or was it all, was it radar work?
TW: It was radar work.
AM: Ok.
TW: And I did thirteen really, the air force didn’t count the last as ops.
AM: [laughs] If you didn’t get back?
TW: That’s right.
AM: What, what position did you take on the plane? Were you the navigator?
TW: No. I flew as a navigator.
AM: Ok.
TW: But we had a navigator on the planes.
AM: So you were the extra man.
TW: I was the extra chap with a whole, kind of laboratory of apparatus of various clever things, all highly secret and I was shot down, became a prisoner of war. Had two years as a prisoner of war and then came back to this country, in ’45 it was, wasn’t it? That’s right.
AM: Where were you shot down Tom? Can you remember?
TW: Yes, I know where I was shot down, I was shot down in Holland [unclear]
AM: [unclear]
TW: Which is The Hague and so I had two years as a prisoner of war.
AM: Whereabouts? Which camp were you in?
TW: Stalag Luft Drei. Stalag Luft iii.
AM: Three.
TW: Yeah.
AM: What sort of things did you get involved in in the camp? Did you get involved in learning or in any of the shows that they put on or anything like that?
TW: I was in, I was in the orchestra and of course I was also very much involved in escape.
AM: Oh tell me about, tell me about that.
TW: The wooden horse escape. I was asked to join in my first week or so and so that’s the big thing, I’m the oldest survivor of the wooden horse.
AM: Of the wooden horse, so what was your role within that? What did you actually do?
TW: Vaulting over the wooden horse. So, which was —
AM: It was a vault, a gym box.
TW: Yes. That’s right.
AM: And you, you were one of the people who vaulted over it.
TW: That’s right.
AM: While they were tunnelling underneath.
TW: And then eventually it was over and the wooden horse was carried back in to the cantina. I had to take over and make certain that there were no traces left, that everything was cleared up and looked normal.
AM: And what were they doing underneath?
TW: Building a tunnel.
AM: To go under the wire and —
TW: We fixed it, we didn’t put the wooden horse against the barbed wire, that would have been obvious but we had it fairly near and the tunnel was done from under the horse, out and under the wire.
AM: So a lot shorter distance than if they’d been doing it from one of the huts.
TW: That right, not so short that it became immediately suspicious. On the other hand Charlie, that’s the chap who was in charge of German security was very suspicious of the wooden horse all its time and after the wooden horse escape I was of course involved in all kinds of secret things in the camp.
AM: What sort of secret things?
TW: Well, tunnels and I taught German.
AM: To the other, you taught the other prisoners German?
TW: Yeah, yeah, I’d teach, yeah.
AM: Yeah.
TW: And was involved in trying to work out what they were doing the whole time.
AM: Yeah. Gosh. So at the, at the end of the war then were you marched? Were you involved in the marches?
TW: Yes.
AM: Yeah.
TW: At the end of the war we were certainly [pause] I’d managed to fall. I was the breakfast chap in our room so I made breakfast and on some kind of day in, in the autumn I had fallen down carrying two, there must have been three or four gallon boiling water things.
AM: Oh gosh.
TW: And I lost all the skin on this foot.
AM: On your right, right foot?
TW: Yeah, that’s right and so before the big march started I was on a train, on goods wagons. They’re always, when you read books about escaping they write about cattle trucks, they weren’t cattle trucks, it’s only that being goods wagons they had painted on the side forty men or twelve horses and that was information to the German railways that that’s what they could load on the things.
AM: Ok.
TW: In fact we had fifty five on our truck but there it was.
AM: So where was the, where were you going on the train?
TW: We went to Nuremberg. It took from, I think Monday ‘til Friday and we were unloaded at Nuremberg, in the prison camps there and then I was immediately, I’d been teaching German in Luft iii, I was teaching German again and I found the Nuremberg camp was largely American. There was some Royal Air Force but it was largely American people and quite often I would find myself acting as interpreter between American Colonels and German people.
AM: Gosh, and then what happened after? Where did you go next after Nuremberg?
TW: From Nuremberg we marched, beginning on the 4th of April ’46.
AM: ’45.
TW: No it wasn’t in ’46. It was ’48 wasn’t it? The war ended in —
AM: ’45.
TW: In ’45 and this was three years later and we started marching and we marched until we got to the largest camp, the largest prison camp in Germany and we were stuffed into that and while we were there we were liberated by the American army and were put into the, we were kept in to, kept inside the prison camp and eventually we were driven to the nearest aerodrome to be flown home and it didn’t happen from there. We had to march off somewhere else and we met a whole of squadron of Lancs, Lancaster’s and they brought us back here.
AM: Yeah and what was it like when you got back? Deloused, did you have to be deloused?
TW: Yeah, when we were liberated, I think it was somewhere in May ’45.
AM: Yeah.
TW: We were liberated there and then. We were liberated in that our camp was invaded. It became an American camp because it was the Americans that liberated us and then after about, well it was in, in fact it was the end of the war was the 8th of May ’45 and I was loaded on to a Lanc' on the 10th .
AM: Was that your first time on a Lancaster?
TW: Yeah.
AM: Because you’d flown Wellingtons I think?
TW: Wellingtons, yeah.
AM: Yeah.
TW: Yeah.
AM: And back home.
TW: Back home, yeah. That was very quick. Now what had happened, oh yes the camp was being evacuated and they weren’t being evacuated by Lancaster's but by [pause] DC3s weren’t they?
AM: I’m not sure, Dakotas? Maybe, anyway —
TW: What the Americans were using and as we left the camp to drive to the aerodrome in big German transports there were big columns of black smoke to the north of us and this was where one of these DC3s had swung on take-off and it had ploughed into five other DC3s, all loaded with American ex-prisoners and we saw this before we left our camp and when we got there they were just piles of DC3s absolutely full of American ex-prisoners of war and I was told to, it was May the 8th, it was VE day and I was told to take my chaps off in to the town and find them billets and so I found them all billets and was left with two others. That’s right and we were given then a girl’s home. She wasn’t there, where she was I don’t know but I read her knitting magazine and then the next day, that’s right, and we went off to the aerodrome and we found the aerodrome was absolutely empty. It had been, because of the accident the Americans had said it was an impossible aerodrome, it was too small.
AM: Right.
TW: You see, it was in the middle of a wood for one thing and so, at any rate I was sent off to find billets. I had one hundred and eighty five roughly of our prisoners and I had to find billets for them. Whereas the Americans that had been on this aerodrome, they were all on board planes but the smoke I’d seen before we left the prison camp, it was one aircraft had swung on take-off when the pilot had opened up the throttles and he ploughed into five other aircraft and the Americans in result, had immediately said that this aerodrome was impossible, it was too small and the next morning I got up, got all the chaps I’d billeted and marched off to this aerodrome because we’d been told on leaving it that I was to return the next day and there’d be further orders for me. I returned the next day and there were no Americans there at all.
AM: Gone.
TW: They’d all gone and I just got, what we did was we lay on the grass of this aerodrome for three days. There was a German in the forest who had done what Hitler had said, not many did but Hitler had said that when the end of the war came Germans weren’t to hand themselves over as prisoners. They were to hide up somewhere with guns and ammunition and shoot western troops until they were out of ammunition and so one of these characters was in the woods bordering the aerodrome and he couldn’t have had much ammunition. It meant that he fired at us probably about every two or three hours, one shot.
AM: Did he actually get anybody? Did he manage to shoot anybody?
TW: No, no.
AM: Oh good.
TW: Mainly he got his gun tipped down and was catching, firing in to the ground and the bullet was then coming to us on the aerodrome making a hell of a noise but it was hitting the ground and then shooting up and that was that. At any rate I had my, I had a hundred and eighty plus prisoners I was in charge of and having had them billeted on German platz that one night, we just felt so tired we just slept on the aerodrome.
AM: Slept on the ground.
TW: We were lying on the floor so that we weren’t presenting a target for this character that was holed up in the forest and so we’d arrived on the Monday. We were lying on the aerodrome on the Tuesday and the Wednesday, so, 8th, 9th 10th and then nothing. There had been aircraft there when we arrived, they took off absolutely full of Americans and we spent one night. I had found billets in town, no Germans in the billet I was in which was the last one. It had had a German woman in and I read her knitting books.
AM: You read her knitting books.
TW: Yeah and then the next morning I marched all of my hundred and eighty blokes on to the aerodrome again. There was no one there.
AM: They’d all gone.
TW: They’d all gone and we just lay on the ground.
AM: Just laid there.
TW: And slept.
AM: When you got, when you got back home.
TW: Yes.
AM: What happened then? Did you go on leave? Did you come back to Birmingham?
TW: Came back to Birmingham. In fact, what had happened was that we flew from Germany and since it was an American camp, an American evacuation and we’d been liberated by the Americans we went to the American prisoner liberation camps which was in France and I was there two days. No, no Americans around, they’d gone off since this place was now condemned as impossible as an aerodrome and on the Thursday a whole squadron of Dakotas came in. They came in and landed and we got up and ran out to meet them. ‘Where are we?’ they said and so I gave orders to all my blokes to get on board and I said, ‘We’ll tell you when we’re on board’ and they’d flown us to this centre, Liege or somewhere in France and from there the Americans were being taken to a gathering camp, Brittany, where they were waiting for boats and on the other hand we British were told, I was told to report to, the British Embarkation Officer was there and I reported to him and so, immediately I had to produce lists of my hundred and eighty chaps in, enough to fill an aircraft and they weren’t allowed to fly without these lists on board, so that if the aircraft crashed and people were killed they could give us names.
AM: Right.
TW: Or it didn’t happen. At any right, I’d had to write out these lists when I eventually made contact with the Americans and I’d had, on each occasion to write out — I started off with, I think it was twenty five, I started with twenty five prisoners on a Dakota and then the Americans thought they might manage to squeeze thirty on board and then they decided that they might have to just send twenty and so, on each occasion I lost complete sleep that night and I spent the night writing out, they had to be quadruplicates, four copies for each aircraft for a number of aircraft that would take our hundred and eighty and it meant I was writing out these lists all night.
AM: All night.
TW: Yeah.
AM: Where did you, where did they land back in Britain?
TW: We had three days on this airfield or [unclear] airfield. In fact I’d gone back to it, marched back to it and it was condemned as too small but I wouldn’t move and there were no Americans there at all.
AM: No.
TW: And we were there on our own so we just lay on the floor and slept and on the Thursday, why was I staying there? Because I knew that the Thursday was Ascension Day and I thought Ascension Day might be lucky.
AM: Might be lucky for you.
TW: Yeah.
AM: What did you do after the war was over?
TW: I went to Cambridge.
AM: You went to Cambridge and took a degree in —
TW: Took a degree in German and Russian.
AM: In German and Russian.
TW: Yeah.
AM: And then what did you do? What work did you do after that?
TW: I taught German and Russian. I bought two copies, two successive, no, three copies of The Times Educational Supplement and read through them to see what there was in the way of jobs and the first week I found two posts in London, for French teachers and this the third day it was a school in Essex and they wanted someone that would teach German and Russian, so I went there.
AM: So you went there.
TW: Yeah. I immediately applied to the schools that wanted French teachers but I never got a reply from them. On the other hand I got a reply from Essex to their advertisement in The Times Educational Supplement on the third day and I went there.
AM: So you went there. Where did you meet Gabby? How did you meet Gabby after the war?
TW: Right. So we had the end of the war and I decided that I must make certain that my German was faultless and so I looked up advertisements and answered two advertisements wanting language teachers in London and around about there and on the third day it was Essex, Romford.
AM: Yes.
TW: And so I applied to all these advertisements and the Romford Head wrote back straight away and I went for an interview and I got the job.
AM: Got the interview there.
TW: Yeah. There were two others being interviewed with me but they hadn’t got either German or Russian, they’d got French and so I got the job.
AM: Wonderful.
TW: And then I stayed there eight years and the Head advised me it was about time that I was applying for headships and I’d already decided to do that and Coleshill came up and I applied for it and I got it. So it meant that after the war I replied to two, to three advertisements, three different schools and I was offered the post at both of them so I was very lucky.
AM: Yeah, brilliant. I’m going to switch —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Tom and Gabi Wilson
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Annie Moody
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-16
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AWilsonGT150816, PWilsonT1501, PWilsonT1502
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:03:27 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
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Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Description
An account of the resource
Gabi Wilson grew up in Berlin and was a schoolgirl in 1939. She discusses one brother training as an interpreter and another brother returning from Russian prisoner of war camps. She worked as an apprentice at a publisher firm. She met her husband, Tom at university, they married in 1950 and moved to London where he became a head teacher.
Tom Wilson came from an academic family in New Zealand. He studied engineering and worked on radar before volunteering for the Air Force. He flew 13 operations as a navigator before his aircraft was shot down and he became a prisoner of war. He met his wife at a lecture.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
New Zealand
Poland
England--London
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Nuremberg
Poland--Żagań
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1945
1946
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Yvonne Walker
bombing
C-47
childhood in wartime
escaping
Hitler, Adolf (1889-1945)
Lancaster
military living conditions
prisoner of war
radar
shelter
shot down
sport
Stalag Luft 3
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2556/43914/MLongNJ1581956-190516-01.2.pdf
eed9f017f42bc56ad98f0cc2f870849f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Long, Norman J
N J Long
Description
An account of the resource
12 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer Norman J Long (1923 - 1994, 1581956 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, correspondence, documents, and photographs. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 460 Squadron.
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Kathryn Lawrence and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-05-16
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Long, NJ
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
ROUTINE ORDER BY GROUP CAPTAIN K. R. PARSONS D.S.O. D.F.C
COMMANDING R.A.F. STATION, BINBROOK.
Serial No. 39
Page. 1
Date. 12.5.45.
427. SPECIAL ORDER OF THE DAY by AIR CHIEF MARSHAL SIR A. T. HARRIS. KCB. OBE. AFC.
“Men and Women of Bomber Command.
More than 51/2 years ago, within hours of the declaration of War, Bomber Command first assailed the German enemy.
You were then but a handful. Inadequate in everything but the skill and determination of the crews that sombre occasion and for the unknown years of unceasing battle which lay behond [sic] horizons black indeed.
You, the aircrews of Bomber Command, sent your first ton of bombs away on the morrow of the outbreak of war. A million tons of bombs and mines have followed from Bomber Command alone. From Declaration of War to Cease Fire a continuity of battle without precedent and without relent.
In the Battle of France your every endeavour bore down upon an overwhelming and triumphant enemy.
After Dunkirk your Country stood alone in arms but largely unarmed between the Nazi tyranny and domination of the world.
The Battle of Britain, in which you took great part, raised the last barrier strained but holding in the path of the all conquering Wehrmacht, and the bomb smoke of the Channel ports choked back down German throats the very word ‘Invasion’; not again to find expression within these narrow seas until the bomb disrupted defences of the Normandy beachheads fell to our combined assault.
In the long years between much was to pass.
Then it was that you, and for you long alone, carried the war ever deeper and ever more furiously into the heart of the Third Reich. There the whole of the German enemy in undivided strength, and scarcely less a foe the very elements, arrayed against you. You overcame them both.
Through those desperate years, undismayed by any odds, undeterred by any casualties, night succeeding night, you fought. The Phalanx of the United Nations.
You fought alone, as the one force then assailing German soil, you fought alone as individuals isolated in your crew stations by the darkness and the murk, and from all other aircraft in company.
Not for you the hot emulation of high endeavour in the glare and panoply of martial array. Each crew, each one in each crew, fought alone through black nights rent only, mile after continuing mile, by the fiercest barrages ever raised and the instant sally of the searchlights. In each dark minute of those long miles lurked menace. Fog, ice, snow and tempest found you undeterred.
In that loneliness in action lay the final test, the ultimate stretch of human staunchness and determination.
Your losses mounted through those years. Years in which your chance of survival through one spell of operational duty was negligible. Through two periods, mathematically Nil. Nevertheless survivors pressed forward as volunteers to pit their desperately acquired skill in even a third period of operations, on special tasks.
In those 5 years and 8 months of continuous battle over enemy soil your casualties over long periods were grievous. As the count is cleared those of Bomber Command who gave their lives to bring near to impotenance [sic] an enemy who had surged swift in triumph through a Continent, and to enable the United Nations to deploy in full array, will be found not less than the total dead of our National Invasion Armies now in Germany.
In the whole history of our National Forces never have so smaller band of men been called to support so long such odds. You indeed bore the brunt.
To you who survived I would say this. Content yourselves, and take credit with those who perished, that now the ‘Cease Fire’ has sounded countless homes within our Empire will welcome back a father a husband or a son whose life, but for your endeavours and your sacrifices, would assuredly have been expended during long further years of agony to achieve a victory already ours. No Allied Nation is clear of this debt to you.
I cannot here expound your full achievements.
Your attacks on the industrial centres of Northern Italy did much toward the collapse of the Italian and German Armies in North Africa, and to further invasion of the Italian mainland.
Of the German enemy two to three million fit men, potentially vast armies, were continuously held throughout the war in direct and indirect defence against your assaults. A great part of her industrial war effort went towards fending your attacks.
[Page break]
You struck a critical proportion of the weapons of war from enemy hands. On every front.
You immobilised armies, leaving them shorn of supplies, reinforcements, resources and reserves, the easier prey to our advancing Forces.
You eased and abetted the passage of our troops over major obstacles. You blasted the enemy from long prepared defences where he essayed to hold. On the Normandy beaches. At the hinge of the Battle of Caen. In the jaws of the Falaise Gap. To the strongpoints of the enemy held Channel ports, St. Vith, Houffalize and the passage of the Rhine. In battle after battle you sped our armies to success at minimum cost to our troops. The Commanders of our land forces, and indeed those of the enemy, have called your attacks decisive.
You enormously disrupted every enemy means of communication, the very life blood of his military and economic machines. Railways, canals and every form of transport fell first to decay and then to chaos under your assaults.
You so shattered the enemy’s oil plants as to deprive him of all but the final trickle of fuel. His aircraft became earthbound, his road transport ceased to roll, armoured fighting vehicles lay helpless outside the battle, or fell immobilised into our hands. His strategic and tactical plans failed through inability to move.
From his war industries supplies of ore, coal, steel, fine metals, aircraft, guns, ammunition, tanks, vehicles and every ancillary equipment dwindled under your attacks.
At the very crisis of the invasion of Normandy, you virtually annihilated the German naval surface forces then in the Channel, a hundred craft and more fell victim to those three attacks.
You sank or damaged a large but yet untotalled number of enemy submarines in his ports and by mine laying in his waters.
You interfered widely and repeatedly with his submarine training programmes.
With extraordinary accuracy, regardless of opposition, you hit and burst through every carapace which he could devise to protect his submarines in harbour.
By your attacks on inland industries and coastal ship yards you caused hundreds of his submarines to be still born.
Your mine laying throughout the enemy’s sea lanes, your bombing of his inland waters, and his Ports, confounded his sea traffic and burst his canals. From Norway throughout the Baltic, from Jutland to the Gironde, on the coasts of Italy and North Africa you laid and relaid the minefields. The wreckage of the enemy’s naval and merchant fleets litters and encumbers his sea lanes and dockyards. A thousand known ships, and many more as yet unknown, fell casualty to your mines.
You hunted and harried his major warships from hide to hide. You put out of action, gutted or sank most of them.
By your attacks on Experimental Stations, factories, communications and firing sites you long postponed and much reduced the V. weapon attacks. You averted an enormous further toll of death and destruction from your Country.
With it all you never ceased to rot the very heart out of the enemy’s war resources and resistance.
His Capital and near 100 of his cities and towns including nearly all of leading war industrial importance lie in utter ruin, together with the greater part of the war industry which they supported.
Thus you brought to nought the enemy’s original advantage of an industrial might intrinsically greater than ours and supported by the labour of captive millions, now set free.
For the first time in more than a century you have brought home to the habitual aggressor of Europe the full and acrid flavours of war, so long the perquisite of his victims.
All this, and much more, have you achieved during these 51/2 years of continuous battle, despite all opposition from an enemy disposing of many a geographical and strategical advantage with which to exploit an initial superiority in numbers.
Men from every part of the Empire and of most of the Allied Nations fought in your ranks. Indeed a band of brothers.
In the third year of the war the Eighth Bomber Command, and the Fifteenth Bomber Command, U.S.A.A.F. from their Mediterranean bases, ranged themselves at our side, zealous in extending every mutual aid, vieing in every assault upon our common foe. Especially they played the leading part in sweeping the enemy fighter defences from our path and, finally, out of the skies.
[Page break]
Nevertheless nothing that the crews accomplished and it was much, and decisive could have been achieved without the devoted service of every man and woman in the Command.
Those who tended the aircraft, mostly in the open, through six bitter winters. Endless intricacies in a prolonged misery of wet and cold. They rightly earned the implicit trust of the crews. They set extraordinary records of aircraft serviceability.
Those who manned the Stations, Operational Headquarters, Supply lines and Communications.
The pilots of the Photographic Reconnaissance Units without whose lonely ventures far and wide over enemy teritory we should have been largely powerless to plan or to strike.
The Operational Crew training organisation of the Command which through these years of ceaseless work by day and night never failed, in the face of every difficulty and unpredicted call, to replace all casualties and to keep our constantly expanding first line up to strength in crews trained to the highest pitch of efficiency; simultaneously producing near 20,000 additional trained aircrew for the raising and reinforcement of some 50 extra squadrons, formed in the Command and despatched for service in other Commands at home and overseas.
The men and women of the Meteorological Branch who attained prodigious exactitudes in a fickle art and stood brave on assertion where science is inexact. Time and again they saved us from worse than the enemy could ever have achieved. Their record is outstanding.
The meteorological reconnaissance pilots, who flew through anything and everything in search of the feasible.
The Operational Research Sections whose meticulous investigation of every detail of every attack provided data for the continuous confounding of the enemy and the consistent reduction of our own casualties.
The scientists, especially those of the Telecommunications Research Establishment, who placed in unending succession in our hands the technical means to resolve our problems and to confuse the every party of the enemy. Without their skill and their labours beyond doubt we could not have prevailed.
The Works Services who engineered for Bomber Command alone 2,000 miles of runway track and road, with all that goes with them.
The Works Staffs, Designers and Workers who equipped and re-equipped us for battle. Their efforts, their honest workmanship, kept in our hands indeed a Shining Sword.
To all of you I would say how proud I am to have served in Bomber Command for 41/2 years and to have been your Commander-in-Chief through more than three years of your Saga.
Your task in the German war is now completed. Famously have you fought. Well have you deserved of your country and her Allies.”
[signature]
Adjutant.
R.A.F. Station. Binbrook.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Special Order of the Day by Air Chief Marshall Sir A.T. Harris
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Arthur Harris
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-05-12
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Dunkerque
France--Normandy
France--Caen
France--Falaise
Belgium
Belgium--Saint-Vith
Belgium--Houffalize
Germany
Germany--Rhineland
Italy
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Wehrmacht
United States Army Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three typewritten sheets
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MLongNJ1581956-190516-01
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription. Under review
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Message from Arthur Harris to all Bomber Command Personnel.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Kathryn Lawrence
aircrew
bombing
ground crew
ground personnel
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
mine laying
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Photographic Reconnaissance Unit
RAF Binbrook
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1586/43721/EBallyAHuntH450919-0001.1.jpg
55052da46c98024ec736a5103e94a5b7
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1586/43721/EBallyAHuntH450919-0002.1.jpg
6de14c23d18e4eeb6c7bf534b91b095b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1586/43721/EBallyAHuntH450919-0003.1.jpg
95f7c7de42193d5b57a3e0a8f453c13f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1586/43721/EBallyAHuntH450919-0004.1.jpg
e96e50e8156da6d5e2c80fa17e3aa90a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hunt, William Richard
W R Hunt
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2020-01-27
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hunt, WR
Description
An account of the resource
<p>Nine items including a photograph album of 18 items. The collection concerns Sergeant William Richard Hunt (520376 Royal Air Force) and contains documents and photographs. He flew operations as an observer with 35 Squadron and was killed 19 May 1942.</p>
<p>The collection includes an <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2561">album</a> with scenes of Gibraltar and Oran (Algeria), pre-war aircraft and RAF stations.<br /><br />The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by William John Hastings and catalogued by Benjamin Turner. <br /><br />Additional information on William Richard Hunt is available via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/214002/">IBCC Losses Database</a></p>
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Golbey, le 19 Septembre 1945
Bien chère Madame.
Je me permet de vous écrire cette lettre pour vous faire connaître que j’ai bien reçu votre lettre dans laquelle vous m’avez fait savoir que vous me remerciez des détails que j’avais bien voulu vous donner au sujet de la mort de votre malheureux fils.
Croyez bien Madame que j’ai fait tout ce que j’ai pu pour vous donner satisfaction et pour permettre au cœur d’une mère éprouvée d’être rassuré sur le sort d’un être doublement cher.
Je m’excuse tout de suite de ne pouvoir vous adresser cette lettre en traduction anglaise. J’ai disposé un certain temps d’un interpréte bénévole. Hélas, cette personne a quitté la région et je suis maintenant placé dans l’obligation de m’exprimer dans ma langue maternelle.
Croyez bien qu’elle n’en est pas moins aussi sincère à votre égard. Au cours de la guerre 1939-40, j’ai vécu assez longtemps dans un secteur et avec des militaires de l’armée britannique. Croyez que j’ai pu les apprécier à leur juste valeur et que je puis que leur exprimer à tous ma satisfaction personnel pour leur attitude et leur conduite qui a été des plus correctes vis à vis de notre pauvre pays de France.
Il est des choses dans une existence qui ne s’oublient pas. Celle ci restera toujours gravée dans ma mémoire et soyez persuadée que je garde vis à vis la Nation Britannique tout entière la plus profonde reconnaissance.
Vous me faites connaître sur votre lettre que vous ne savez comment me remercier? Puis-je me permettre de vous faire une humble demande? Pendant mon séjour auprès des militaires britanniques, j’ai apprécié en de maintes occasion l’arome et la délicatesse de votre tabac blond.
Serait-ce trop vous demander que de vouloir bien me faire un petit envoi de ce cher tabac? Vous me croirez certainement bien osé, mais c’est une petite excuse pour moi, car je suis un enragé fumeur et le tabac en France est rare. Je vous en serais extrémement reconnaissant.
De mon côté, je me ferai un plaisir de vous accueillir chez moi, si un jour au cours de l’un de vos pélerinages en France sur la tombe de votre cher fils, vous daigniez venir me faire une visite.
Comme vous me le demandez sur votre lettre, je vous fais parvenir les épreuves des photos prises au cimetière d’Aiglemont (Ardennes). L’épreuve marquée d’un X vous indique la tombe où repose de son éternel sommeil votre regretté garçon.
Avec mes meilleurs souvenirs, je vous prie d’agréer Madame l’expression de mon profond dévouement.
A Bally T.S.V.P.
[page break]
Mon adresse.
Monsieur BALLY, Auguste.
Adjudant de Gendarmerie à GOLBEY.
(Vosges)-France-
[page break]
Golbey, 19th Sept. 1945
My dear Madame,
I am writing this letter to let you know that I duly received your letter in which you thank me for the details I have been able to give you on the subject of the passing of your dear son.
Believe me dear madame that I have done my utmost to give you satisfaction and permit a mother’s heart to be assured of the fate of a Being doubly dear.
I ask you to excuse me for addressing you in French, but I have lost the services of a kind interpreter He has left this vicinity, and I am now obliged to write you in my mother tongue.
Believe me however that my words are no less sincere. In the course of the War 1939 – 40 I lived in a sector with British soldiers, and learned to appreciate their true value, and I express to them my personal satisfaction with their attitude and conduct which was always correct in my poor country of France.
It is one of the things in my existence which I shall never forget. It is graven in my memory, and be persuaded that I shall [word deleted] look to the entire British nation with the most profound gratitude.
You ask me in your letter how you can thank me. May I be so bold as to make a suggestion? During my stay with your soldiers I appreciated many, many times the aroma and delicacy of your light tobacco. Will it be too much to ask you to send me a small parcel of that cherished tobacco. You will certainly think it is very bold of me, and the only excuse I can offer is that I am a desperate smoker and tobacco in France is rare. I shall be very grateful to you.
From my side, it will be a great pleasure to [deleted] meet [/deleted] [inserted] receive [/inserted] you at my house, if one day in the course of a journey to France to see the tomb of your dear son you will do me the honour to visit me.
As requested, I am sending you the negatives of the photos taken at Aiglemont. The negative marked with a cross indicates the tomb where reposes your son in his eternal sleep.
My best wishes, etc etc.
[page break]
Paris 258K
2 1/2 hrs
3 miles North E of mezieres – charoevlle
Railway mezieres to Givel[deleted] l [/deleted]
Paris
8.30 Sunday
11.04 [indecipherable word]
[indecipherable word] station
Paris
11-13. to Gwett.
12.35
Brussels to Gwett
9am 10.50.
Cooks
9-50 Heathrow Brussells 10-40.
Brussels
9.25
L
10.20
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to Mrs Hunt
Description
An account of the resource
A letter written in French, with accompanying English translation sent to Mrs Hunt. The French letter was written by an Auguste Bally, an Adjudant in the Gendarmerie. The letter is sent as a reply to Mrs Hunt, thanking Bally for information on her son's death and details of his burial. Bally reminisces his time with British soldiers. Bally later asks for some tobacco. The reverse of the English translation details various times and locations handwritten.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Auguste Bally
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-09-19
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1945
1945-09-19
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Golbey
France--Ardennes
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
British Army
Language
A language of the resource
fra
eng
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Type written double sided letter with accompanying translation
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Benjamin Turner
Frances Grundy
Steve Baldwin
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EBallyAHuntH450919-0001, EBallyAHuntH450919-0002, EBallyAHuntH450919-0003, EBallyAHuntH450919-0004
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
final resting place
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/514/11307/BGoodmanLSGoodmanLSv1.1.pdf
95e2e091735c5cb46cad20f313332cb3
Dublin Core
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Title
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Goodman, Benny
Lawrence Seymour Goodman
L S Goodman
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Goodman, LS
Description
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Three items. Two oral history interviews with Squadron Leader Lawrence 'Benny' Goodman (1920 - 2021, 1382530, 123893 Royal Air Force) and a memoir covering his activities from 1939 to 1945. He flew 30 operations as a pilot with 617 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Benny Goodman and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
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2016-04-28
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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BY BENNY GOODMAN
It was September 1939. A few of us were sitting around the wireless waiting for the Prime Minister to make an announcement. He did so and told us we were now at war with Germany. I was a student, in digs, and a long way from my home in London. I decided to telephone my parents and talk things over with my father. My first instinct was to leave my studies – not a hardship really! – go home and join up. Eventually, my father agreed, much to my mother’s consternation. I discovered later. He had served four years in the 1st World War. There was no doubt in my mind I was going to join up. However, I did not want to join the navy or the army and it was only then I realised I wanted to become a pilot.
I was almost nineteen and had no idea what was entailed, but with the ignorance and cheek of youth I presented myself at the RAF recruiting office and told the officer who interviewed me what I wanted to do. He didn’t say a word, finished filling in the form he had in front of him and told me I would be hearing about my application very soon. Not long afterwards I went for a general medical and when I passed this I was sent to an RAF medical for a more involved air crew medical. Everything went well except when it came to the eye test. My eyesight had never been top class so I went to the back of the queue and learnt the two or three lines each candidate was being asked to read. I passed! After attestation, I went home to await call up. It came a few weeks later and I reported to RAF Cardington, where I was issued with a uniform and all the accoutrements for an AC 2. This is it, I thought. I shall be a pilot in a couple of weeks and will save the world!
Things didn’t quite turn out like that. After about 10 days at Cardington, we were told to pack our kitbags and were marched off to the local railway station. Rumours were rife! And if you listened to everyone, your posting was to anywhere in the world. In fact, we went to RAF Bridgenorth for six weeks square bashing and all that went with it. ‘Bull’ was the order of the day – the camp had four parade grounds) Then I and another chap were posted to RAF Abingdon. When we got there nobody had any idea we were coming and so the Orderly Room Sergeant asked us our trade. We both said ‘U.T. Pilot’ and consequently we were sent the aircrew quarters, which were in fact the married quarters on the station. Abingdon was a straight through course for Whitleys and so, with much justification, we thought we would be on the next course.
However, there was a war on! It was decided that the Whitley course running at the time would be the last one and again, no one knew what to do with us. The next day we were moved from our relatively comfortable billet to a remote part of the airfield. There was a Nissen hut with six beds, no sheets, no pillowcases and a Fairey Battle packing case as a so-called recreation room. The latrines were self-dug, but permanent. We were to be ground gunners!
It was explained to us that this was a temporary move but as such we had to learn, amongst other things, how to strip and re-assemble the C.O.W. gun and the water-cooled Lewis gun. Duties were 4 hours on / 2 hours off in the gun pit. We patrolled the airfield at night and challenged anyone on it for the password of the day. You can imagine the sort of answers we got from aircraft technicians with their bags of tools in the pitch black trying to find the Whitley they were to work on. At dawn every morning we had to march around the perimeter track with our gas masks on in case of a German paratroop invasion from the air.
Our food was brought out to us in hay boxes and so was never very warm! We used to try and sneak in once a week or so to the airmen’s quarters to see if we could get a bath, but if we were caught the airmen billeted there showed no mercy! In our off-duty time, we were sent to the coal dump to load coal bags and to carry out various other domestic duties on the camp. One of these included cleaning out the grate in the Officers’ mess before they came down for breakfast. On many occasions I did this and always had to finish by black-leading the grate and all the surrounds. Some years later I went back to Abingdon as the Adjutant of the Overseas
[page break]
2
Ferry Unit. When I went into the mess, I looked at the grate and the few officers sitting around it in armchairs and thought to myself: “If only you chaps knew how many times I cleaned this thing!”
A posting came through eventually to start pilot training and I was sent to Stratford-upon-Avon, which was a Reception Centre. As I walked into the Orderly Room to report my arrival, a voice shouted “Airman, you’re on a charge”. I looked around and saw no one else -I had the horrible feeling that I was already in trouble, and this was the case. Having spent some months as a ground gunner and living in my uniform it was, to say the least, scruffy, as was the cap. Not very politely I was told I was a disgrace to the service because of the state of my uniform. All the other chaps, of course, were wearing brand new uniforms and I stood out like a sore thumb. I tried to point this out to the Sergeant but he wasn’t interested. Next morning, I appeared before the O.C. unit who was sympathetic but clearly felt he had to back up his Orderly Room Sergeant. Seven days jankers was my reward.
A posting duly came along to Initial Training Wing (I.T.W.) and there we did six weeks of ground school prior to E.F.T.S. Just about everyone passed and I was sent to 17 E.F.T.S. Peterborough for ab initio training on Tiger Moths. The course was about 48-50 hours and to the horror of another chap and myself, we were posted to RAF Woodley for an instructors course. Both of us could just about manage to fly the Tiger Moth and so to be told we were going to be instructors frightened us considerably. Following this, after a couple of weeks at Clyffe Pypard a holding unit, and a spell at a Manchester park, awaiting posting, we were sent to Canada to do a S.F.T.S. on Ansons. Boy! This was living. A twin engine aircraft with retractable undercarriage, even though we had to wind it up! The course included night flying, the first time I had experienced this, and I can truly say that on my so-called first circuit I varied between 600 ft and 1,500 ft AGL and lost site of the airfield completely. I hadn’t got a clue. To my surprise, my instructor didn’t seem at all phased and by the end of the detail I had at least got the circuit and the heights more or less sorted out. What a brave man he was! After another night sortie, I was passed fit to do a solo circuit and I truly believed I was just about to die! However, all went well and I was then sent to Kingston, Ontario, to – believe it or not – instructing on Harvards. This aircraft is still in use to this day.
The thought of flying this monster, let alone instructing on it, made me feel quite sick. Kingston Ontario was an RAF station dedicated to the training of Fleet Air Arm pilots “is everybody mad?” I thought. The other instructors, all of whom had done an operational tour (and one was Fleet Air Arm) readily accepted me – the sprog in every way. The Flight Commander took me up and put me through my paces on the Harvard and pronounced me fit to start instruction. However, he showed me and tested me one lesson at a time, so that I could take up an acting leading naval airman and show him the particular procedure. Nobody else had a clue how inexperienced I was, except the other instructors in the flight who thought it was a great joke. So, I started with one lesson at a time and over a few weeks built up to the whole syllabus. I have to say the Harvard was a wonderful and responsive aircraft to fly and, despite the tales of woe and misery about ground looping, I never saw one instance of it … and that includes me!
By this time I was a Pilot Officer and because there was no room in the Mess I had digs in the town and even bought myself a Chevrolet with a dicky seat. My Canadian driving test consisted of reversing the car about 2 feet, and being told to ‘stop and get out, come into the office’ … and I was presented with my Canadian driving licence. In a short time, I had come from cleaning the grate in the Officers Mess as an AC 2 to a Pilot Officer Instructor, with a car and living in digs! Was I dreaming?
All good things come to an end and I was posted back to the U.K. to prepare to go on ops. We set sail on the Awatea from Halifax, Nova Scotia, and of course nothing ever goes well for long. Twenty-four hours later in the Atlantic, we were torpedoed. Fortunately for us, a US Navy destroyer intercepted the torpedo and took most (90%) of the subsequent explosion and sank, leaving us damaged. We had no rudder and there were several other things wrong with the ship; we went round in circles for some time. Rough repairs were made and we went back to Halifax. We kicked our heels there for a while and then were put on a train journey which lasted for several days, to New York. There we transferred immediately to the Queen Mary. There were huge numbers of American troops and O.C. Troops was an American Officer. He called all the officers together before sailing to tell us that, if we were torpedoed
[page break]
3
We must remember that the officers were last to leave the ship. Bearing in mind our recent experience, this didn’t exactly cheer us up. We did arrive safely in the U.K. and I found myself flying Martinets for a time, carrying out simulated air attacks on Wimpeys and for their air gunners to cine-gun their replies.
At last a posting came through to an O.T.U. at Silverstone. By this time I had already met Tony Hayward, who wore an Observers brevet, and we became good friends. We went to the O.T.U. together and there we picked up our full crew. Crews selected each other in what seemed a very haphazard manner, by talking to those we thought would be suitable, but I can’t remember ever meeting any crew member who was subsequently dissatisfied and wanted to leave his original crew. In the end, everyone was crewed up.
From Silverstone we went to the Heavy Bomber Conversion Unit at Swinderby flying Stirlings, and then to the Lancaster finishing school at Syerston. At the end of my course, the Flight Commander sent for me and my crew said: “What the hell have you done, Benny?” I protested my innocence but everybody laughed. When I entered the Flight Commander’s office I felt sure I had done something terribly wrong because there, facing me, were the Flight Commander, O.C. Flying and two or three other officers. My heart sank into my boots and the only thing I could think of was a ‘court martial’. I felt slightly cheered when the Flight Commander seemed quite friendly as he spoke to me and one or two of the other officers questioned me about my flying and the practise bombing results that we had obtained. I felt further heartened and, knowing the results, couldn’t believe that was what I was being called in about. After a couple more questions, one of the officers said to me: “How would you like to join 617 Squadron?” I truly didn’t believe that I had heard correctly and said: “Excuse me, sir. Did you say 617 Squadron?” He answered: “Yes”. I felt a heavy weight suddenly had been lifted from my shoulders and said that I and my crew would be delighted to do so.’ At that time the only other crew which had been invited to join the squadron had come and had come directly from training was headed by Tony Iveson, and he had been a Battle of Britain pilot. He had been on the Lancaster course immediately before me.
I was told that we had been selected for 617 and to report for duty within 48 hours. When I got back to the crew and told them the news, at first they didn’t believe me. Eventually, I convinced them and we all packed up and got transport to Woodhall Spa.
On arrival and after checking in at the Mess and going through the usual procedures, I reported to the Squadron Adjutant. I waited a few minutes and was ushered into Wing Commander Tait’s office, who was O.C 617 Squadron. We had a chat, or more accurately – he spoke to me and allocated me to a flight. I reported to the Flight Commander Jonny Cockshott. He welcomed me and told me that the crew would have to go on a short training course devised by the squadron and, importantly, to get used to the S.A.B.S. bombsight and to obtain bombing results within the limits prescribed by 617 Squadron. We did this and found ourselves accepted as fully operational on the squadron.
My first trip was with Flight Lieutenant Bob Knights … without my crew but with his. I sat in the dicky seat where the Flight Engineer usually sat. I couldn’t have been luckier in the choice of captain I was to fly with. Not only was Bob an extremely nice chap but he was most helpful as well. To give you an idea of his value, he was a Flight Lieutenant with a D.S.O. and I think you know there aren’t many of those to the pound.
I did a full tour of thirty trips with the Squadron. The first trip as a crew was to Brest and, of course, being a sprog crew things had to happen, didn’t they? Over the sea, I suddenly found the cockpit full of smoke and the wireless operator telling me his radios were on fire. He and the navigator were trying to make sure the fire didn’t spread. Just the sort of confidence booster you need on your first sortie on a new squadron! I opened the D.V. panel and fortunately the combined efforts of the wireless operator and navigator dealt with the fire … we carried on. One thing was certain: none of us could have faced a return to the squadron without completing the trip saying: “We couldn’t do it. We had a fire on board.” How’s that for luck?
Some of the trips we did were quite well known. There was the Tirpitz trip (13 1/4 hours) and a 9 hour 25 minute night trip to Politz-Stettin. That was the first time I could truthfully say that, at 18,000 ft with
[page break]
4
oxygen masks on, I can remember smelling cordite from the flak that was thrown at us. That may sound like a line shoot, but it certainly wasn’t at the time. A further notable op was against the Arnsberg viaduct, when we were selected to drop the 22,000 lb Grand Slam on the viaduct.
We received Grand Slam in March 1945. To carry this a number of modifications were made to the Lancaster – a Lincoln undercarriage was fitted to allow for the increase in weight; mid-upper and front turret were removed, along with the wireless operator’s equipment and the W/Op himself. Other armour plate was taken out and the ammunition load reduced, all to save weight. The bomb doors were removed and replaced by fairings and a chain link strop with electro-mechanical release was fitted to hold Grand Slam in place.
As I recall it I was number three to release a Grand Slam, Jock Calder was the first, and Johnny Cockshott the second. This was in March – yes we are still in March, and Arnsberg Viaduct was the target. On release I remember the aircraft went up vertically about 100 – 200 feet. My flight engineer recalls hearing a loud bang at the same time, as the release slip parted.
In all 617 dropped 41 Grand Slams before the end of the war in Europe. I like to think Grand Slam punched its weight. We were the only squadron to have this bomb.
Another op that had high squitter value was against Hamburg. We had the misfortune to have a hang-up and the bomb dropped a few seconds late, which meant that it didn’t fall on the target but into the residential area beyond the target. We didn’t feel good about this, but there was nothing we could do. We set course for home. About fifteen minutes later my flight engineer nudged me and nodded his head toward what I thought was the instrument panel. I looked but could see nothing wrong, so went on flying. He nudged me even harder and moved his head rather more urgently towards the starboard side. I looked out and to my horror saw the latest German twin engine jet fighter, a Messerschmitt Me262, in formation with us on our starboard wing. I thought I must be dreaming but I knew very well I wasn’t, and thought: “This is it.” It seemed to me that if I tried a 5 Group corkscrew we wouldn’t have a chance against the German aircraft. We had no mid-upper turret and clearly the rear gunner was completely unable to train his guns on him. So, there we were at the mercy of the Luftwaffe. The flight engineer and I looked at each other again and then I looked at the German pilot, but there was no friendly wave from him – so much for fellowship of the air! Suddenly the Me262 disappeared as quickly as it had appeared and I wondered if we had all been smoking opium the night before! It was only some years later when I was talking to Air Commodore John Langston, who at the time was a Flying Officer navigator, that what appeared to be the same aircraft had attacked and shot at John’s aircraft. The German pilot must have just left training school because, although he clearly used all his ammo on John’s aircraft, he hadn’t shot him down. I thought later how fortunate we both were.
Three more incidents out of a number of lucky escapes makes one ask the question. Did Lady Luck really play a part?
On one raid during the bombing run the nose section of the fuselage was hit. Everyone seemed okay, but after landing back at base the bomb aimer discovered that both heels of his flying boots were pitted with shrapnel. An inch or two either way?
On another raid the wireless operator was tuning his radio and leaned a little closer to the set. As he did so, a large projectile or piece of flak entered one side of the fuselage and exited the other. After we landed, the wireless operator sat normally in his seat and we measured the two holes and the position of his head. If he had been sitting in this position at the time of the attack, the projectile/flak would have pierced one side of his head and exited the other. An inch or two either way?
There were three Tirpitz sorties. The first trip involved a direct flight from the U.K. to Yagodnik, Russia, land there, refuel and stay the night. From thereon the next day, the first Tirpitz attack was attempted. This was a hazardous plan as it included flying over Europe both ways and in the end the attack was not successful. However, we unfortunately lost one aircraft.
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5
For the second and third Tirpitz trips, amongst the modifications, two large fuel tanks were fitted inside the fuselage. Health and safety, eat your heart out! The flight engineers had to master the new fuel system very quickly, and indeed they did. Both these trips were made from an advanced base at Lossiemouth. On both occasions the squadron flew up to Lossiemouth with Tallboys already on board, refuelled and attended final briefing. On the second trip, at midnight, we lined up around the perimeter track, taking off in turn at a green signal from the control tower. The weather was unkind – low cloud and rain – just the job for a night low level trip across the sea! Our turn was approaching and I was having a last look around the cockpit when the flight engineer poked me in the ribs, pointing at the canopy. I looked up and saw a massive pair of main undercarriage wheels heading straight for us. There was nothing I could do as there were aircraft either side of me. We both sat there, like rabbits caught in the headlights, and waited for the inevitable. At the last moment, the wheels cleared our canopy and all was normal again. Just the sort of experience you need before take-off on a foul night!
Later we discovered the errant aircraft was flown by Tony Iveson. He had suffered engine surge on the point of leaving the ground. By a masterful piece of crew co-operation and training he and his flight engineer finally kept the aircraft straight and it just cleared the top of our canopy. But we were all young and I suppose took it in our stride. Now, I’d have the vapours. Lady Luck again.
Due to cloud and an efficient smokescreen, it was not possible to bomb the Tirpitz with any accuracy and we returned to Lossiemouth. However, on the third trip – a replica of the second – 617 Squadron finally sank the Tirpitz.
My last trip was to Berchtesgaden, the Eagle’s Nest, and I understand we were followed by Main Force. We, 617, certainly made a mess of the Waffen SS barracks. This was my last trip with the squadron although we were already made aware of a possible raid, I believe to Denmark. However, a truce was declared before this. After the war, I went into Transport Command but everything seemed so tame after 617 Squadron.
Finally, but certainly not least, I pay tribute to the ground crews. Working out in all weathers, often in wind snow and rain-swept dispersals they were always there to ensure the serviceability of our aircraft. Despite working long hours, they were always there to see us depart, and waited in uncertainty, eager to witness our return… …and woe betide us if we damaged [underlined]their [/underlined] aircraft! For 365 days and nights they made it possible for us to do our job. All of us who flew knew their worth, but why were they never publicly recognised? We would have been wingless wonders without them.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Service History of Benny Goodman
Description
An account of the resource
Begins with his decision to cease his studies and join the Royal Air Force. Covers recruitment activities and life during initial training including employment as ground gunner while waiting for flying training. Describes basic training on Tiger Moth at 17 E.F.T.S. followed by Anson and Harvard in Canada. Relates being torpedoed on return voyage home and subsequent return to Halifax, train to New York and return to United Kingdom on the Queen Mary. Tells of flying Martinet as targets for air gunners course, crewing up at O.T.U and subsequent training on Stirling at Heavy Bomber Conversion Unit and eventually Lancaster finishing school. Describes selection to go to 617 Squadron and his arrival there. Mentions that he did 30 operations with the squadron and describes some in detail including first sortie to Brest as well as against Tirpitz, one of which involved landing in Russia. Mentions Grand Slam operations as well as one to Hamburg and another where they were formated on by an Me 262. States that his last trip was to the Eagles Nest at Berchtesgaden.
Creator
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B Goodman
Format
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Seven page printed document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BGoodmanLSGoodmanLSv1
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Bedfordshire
England--Shropshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Peterborough
England--Berkshire
England--Woodley (Wokingham)
Canada
Ontario--Kingston
Nova Scotia--Halifax
United States
New York (State)--New York
Germany
Germany--Hamburg
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
France--Brest
Germany--Berchtesgaden
Russia (Federation)
Russia (Federation)--Arkhangelʹskai︠a︡ oblastʹ
France
New York (State)
Ontario
Nova Scotia
Russia (Federation)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Contributor
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Ashley Jacobs
David Bloomfield
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
617 Squadron
Anson
bombing
crewing up
Flying Training School
fuelling
Grand Slam
ground crew
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Martinet
Me 262
military discipline
military living conditions
Operation Catechism (12 November 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Abingdon
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Cardington
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Silverstone
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Woodhall Spa
sanitation
Stirling
Tallboy
Tiger Moth
Tirpitz
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/640/32451/BSmithBMSmithBMv1.1.pdf
eed80d5eea0c79efd23ec96e2b86a368
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Smith, Barry
Barry Michael Smith
B M Smith
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Smith, BM
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Sergeant Barry Smith (b.1929, 582398 Royal Air Force). He was an aprentice at RAF Halton and served as a fitter. Also includes service memoir and a photograph.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Barry Smith and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
My Journal (& CV Pages 1 to 9)
1 My Journal
Having been triggered by my eldest Grandson to put some bits on paper: it seems sensible to put ideas into this format initially, in order to arrange disparate ideas into some sort of order at a later date.
It’s awfully difficult to work out where to start, but ‘earliest memories’ seems half reasonable. So, here goes. I have no recollection of Bath Rd. Kettering my birthplace. They must centre on Stotfold near Letchworth. While ‘our’ house at 19 Coppice Mead was, I think, being built by a Mr. ‘Turby’ Gentle we resided with Mrs Auburn (I understand I called her Mrs. Ombom) on Church Green. Her cottage was two or three doors from Mr & Mrs Bonnet’s rather grand house. She was the headmistress of St. Mary’s infant school, which I started at a little later on.
2
I have very little recollection of the time we spent at Church Green, but during that time my father was in the RAF stationed at RAF Henlow essentially, as a rigger. I say essentially because, as I understood it, he was actually employed as a batman to a Flt Lt. who’s name escapes me at the moment. Could have been Etheridge.
I suppose we moved up to Coppice Mead when I was perhaps 3 / 4. That seems about right ‘cos my brother Trevor was born when I was 4 1/2. A very significant memory was when I went with Mum to Letchworth Cottage Hospital for Trevor to be circumcised. It didn’t hurt a bit but it was traumatic enough for me to remain a poignant memory. I know he cried a lot & Mum had quite an uncomfortable period washing him & dressing the damaged area.
3
That must have been the year I started school at St. Mary’s. The infants went till they were 7, when the boys moved up the road to the Boys Council School. I walked to school, initially with Pat Trafford who lived at number 7 I think. The spinster Miss White’s lived at 15, the Wogans from Mertha [sic] Tydfyl at 17 & the Goughs at 9. Pat & I were quite good friends & she used to call for me sometimes. “Can the little boy come out to play?” My dad mocked me quite unkindly about that, both then & years after. I think unfortunately, Pat moved to Shortstown (a suburb of Bedford) when her dad was posted to Cardington as a civilian fitter. I never her [sic] of her again. That year, my memory suggests, was also a poor one from a health viewpoint. I was off school for several months with Mumps, Measles, & Whooping cough.
4
I don’t recall feeling poorly but I know my mum & dad & Gran Evans were very worried. For several years after I was fed viral, cod liver oil & malt, calves foot jelly etc. to try to build up my puny frame.
I seem to recall Miss Vause was my first teacher & I’m sure she wasn’t much more than a teenager herself. I clearly remember, as I sat at the back of the class, being called to the front to explain what I was eating. It was my cherished lunch of cheese & tomato sauce sandwiches. Miss Vause was not impressed & spanked my hand. I was … & laughed … shouldn’t have done that I learned!
We did art one day I had a piece of black cartridge paper & proceeded to draw a perfect copy of a beautiful massive white chrysanthemum. It was perfect in every petal!! Whatever happened to that masterpiece?
When i returned to school I was at the boys school & my bit of the class were on ‘money’.
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5
I recall a traumatic period of not understanding what was going on; a situation which followed me through much of my educational years. It was an awful long time before I got into study at all. Much later on learning about some things actually became fun.
About this time, sort of 1937/8 The Wogans moved in to 17. & around that time our house number was changed. Mr. Wogan had walked from Merthyr 7 [sic] had secured a labouring job at the arms factory of Cryn & Lay. Originally Turby had had [sic] designed & built twenty four houses in Coppice Mead (with our tamped gravel road & wooden bordered pathways), but there was clearly room for further development which the renumbering was to cater for, & our house became 43. The smell of horse wee on the sun scorched gravel mixed with the distinctive odour of hot paraffin remains fresh n my nostrils, as does that cacophony of odours of an old fashioned school room. Glynn Wogan was just a touch older than me while Trevor could give me 2 or more years.
6
I know he became very friendly with Helen Gough, who lived at 9, which became 33. They subsequently married but after we had moved to Witney in the summer of 1940. Dad had been moved from Cardington to 32 MU at Brize Norton & we had waited for number 3 of the 50 houses in Springfield Oval to be built. That was around the outbreak of war when he laid up the Austin 7 (ALD789) as he wasn’t entitled to petrol coupons. We had had some memorable trips in that motor. Stalling in Oxford Street in front of a London bus, & the driver jeering ‘get that matchbox off the road’, while dad got out & reranked the engine! I think I was a bit embarrassed but not as red faced as dad was!
Then we drove down into an underground car park, to walk to Grandma’s flat. I have a feeling the car park was near Marble Arch. Grandma Smith lived with Aunt Edith at 7a Peabody Buildings.; in Bedford bury, [sic] where, I think, Dad was born.
7
Here I would be fascinated to lean over the window sill watching the stage hands & actors walk out of the Coliseum Stage door & into the Grapes virtually under my vantage point. From here I could also see the busy traffic up the narrow ‘Bury’ to Covent Garden. I can’t recall how far it was to Bow Street court but Dad took me there one morning & we listened while some of the ladies of the night were cautioned or sent down for some misdemeanour or other (Dad didn’t actually enlarge on the ‘offences’.)
He also took me through an ordinary front door in the Strand & we walked straight down to a Roman Bath. I’ve no real idea where that might be, but I suppose it was walking distance from Temple of Mithras which was excavated later. I did go up to London with my Dad, it must have been 1942 or 3 because the fire weed was in prolific bloom on the bombed sites we looked at.
8
I remember he told me that after the Great fire in 1666 that the devastated sites were supposedly covered in fire weed within weeks (maybe months) of the fire stopping at Pie [sic] Corner. It started, as I’m sure you will know, at a bakers in Pudding Lane. But I don’t think I ever knew his name. I recall being fascinated to see the wall paper on the derelict walls, some with fire places precariously hanging almost in space. A year or to [sic] later I discovered that the Windmill Theatre never closed. That could have been when, after joining the RAF, we all went up to London to Route line for the Victory parade. My station was, I recall at the corner of St. Martin’s Lane. The previous night we had spent in Clapham ‘deep’ Shelter. Roused in the morning by the booming voice of RMS Britain (the loudest voice in the army)
[page break]
9
After my winter of discontent, (multiple sickness); when I got back to school it was the ‘big boys’ (Stotfold Boys County School) & I was completely at sea. Dad had tried to keep me up to the mark with times tables, but I don’t think it had been very effective. They were doing ‘money’ going out to the front & buying & selling empty packets & tins of things. I don’t think I had a clue what it was all about. & kinda lost interest anyway. The academic year away from school had a bit of an impact on attitude to learning, I am quite sure. The year following I moved up into Mr. Thomas’s class. My class reader was Silas Marner but I don’t think I finished it. I was always a slow reader as well. I could count (Think) on two hands the books I had read up to being quite adult.
10
And they took forever!! Titles that come to mind were White Fang & Coral Island & Black Beauty, quite early on. My Gran Evans gave me a copy of Greek Myths which I had a bit of a go at before I left home in ’45. She also gave me Franks (Grandad Evans) silver watch & chain for which I made a stand in woodwork at Batt Central School. Thinking on it I suppose I left a lot of what would now be ‘my heirlooms’ at home. Most were never retrieved. There was my collection of birds eggs. All carefully blown & mounted with glow (glue) in a couple of shoe boxes. I suppose there were 30 or so From duck down to very fragile finch, tit & wren, swallow & house martin, etc I did retrieve stamps & cigarette cards, which I have continued to add to, although not everso [sic] enthusiastically.
11
Still, in 2013 I squirrel away the odd pictorial. Most of my collected coins have been passed on for sorting & suitable disposal. I have just located & copied a synopsis of my service career from 1945 until 1975, & a copy of a CV which I wrote sometime later. I had written it into a computer but, fortunately taken a ‘hard copy’, which is just as well as I am more than displeased with the voracious appetite of cyberspace. I haven’t been here for a long time. It’s now Summer 2014. I have just finished & posted Issue 54 of the Connector. It went to 84 people a quarter of them ‘My Widows”. Issue one went to 110 blokes late in 1996! Earlier in the year I was privileged to attend the presentation of a new Queens Colour to 1 S of TT at RAF Cosford.
12
While several were treated as Very VIP: rather more of us were just treated as VIP’s, so, over canapé’s & vol au vents with wine we were introduced to Princess Anne, who shook hands & talked to everyone, some she even returned to! Betty & I had quite an enjoyable day out & even the brief encounter was most enjoyable.
Perhaps I should explain? Mrs Betty Turner is a friend of over 40 years whom I met as a member of the RAFA: when as Chairman of the Branch I was able to recruit her to collect for the Wings Appeal.
I’m sure a lot has happened between then & now! As I record under ‘Wine & Beer’ (over) NOW is 4th December 2015.
[page break]
13
Issue 59 of the Connector is under construction & Dot Peto (one of my widows) has already sent me a Christmas card: she has been ‘first’ for several years now! At the start of February 2016 issue 59 of Connector is being printed the envelopes have been addressed & I note that 25 of the 80 are going to “my” widows!
On Sunday last I did 20 lbs of 3 fruit marmalade. That was had [sic] work & less well done than previous efforts. Sort of inexplicably I managed to burn the first batch, & although I retried it the Jars do contain some unpleasant looking ‘black’ bits. I shall offer a discount on the price & consider not making any more & disappointing folk.
14
Wine & Beer.
It occurred to me today (4/12/15) as I checked on my latest two attempts at interpreting guidance from C.J.J. Berry “First Steps in Winemaking”. My first attempts were with guidance from a certain Warrant Officer White when he gave a brief lecture to my course at the RAF School of Education in Uxbridge. ‘Chalky’ explained how easy it was to persuade yeast to convert plain potatoes into an extremely potable beverage. I was sold & have continued to experiment with recipes from the W.I. & other experts to this very day. Whilst Pat would not be outdone, she started later making ‘my’ beer & I have carried on that worthwhile tradition since she was called to higher service. But, back to wine: I have had a demijohn of red currant & one of black currant on the go for several months.
15
The black currant tastes fine, but at 15% is a bit heavy so I added some more water for it to ‘mature’ at a rather lower gravity (Relative or even Specific Density for the modern purist) I’ll look at it again in a week or two. The red currant on the other hand tastes superb but is far too sweet & at 27% way beyond what one might expect an ordinary Allison’s yeast to be able of coping with. That, you will all know, is nearly up to commercial spirit level. No pun intended. So that has had to have a diluting approach, as I was only after a pleasant dessert tipple.
A little added yeast to rejuvenate the tiring incumbent & a few more weeks for it to recover & that should be another very acceptable sup.
16
At this point it is January 2017 & I have been doing a little tidying up of this diatribe which I have neglected for some time.
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
My Journal
Description
An account of the resource
Starts with early memories of life at home and school. Mentions his father was in the RAF stationed at RAF Henlow, RAF Cardington and Brize Norton. Mentions laying up car at the beginning of the war as they were not entitled to petrol coupons but writes of some memorable trips in the car to London before. Continues with personal account of activities and hobbies.
Creator
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B M Smith
Format
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Four page printed document
Language
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eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BSmithBMSmithBMv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Bedfordshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--London
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1937
1939
1940
1942
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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Robin Christian
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Cardington
RAF Henlow
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2297/41877/PFrancisR1913.2.jpg
f6dcf56b79a1c40bbbc876cf4780fa93
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2297/41877/PFrancisR1914.2.jpg
2ecee72cff0352ca559f2b569fc2f7a5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Francis, Robert
Description
An account of the resource
10 items. The collection concerns Robert Francis (1916, 628829 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book and photographs. He flew operations as a wireless operator, air gunner with 149 Squadron and later as a bomb aimer.
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Sarah Weale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
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2019-12-18
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Francis, R
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mrs Francis
Description
An account of the resource
A colourised head and shoulders image of Bob's wife.
On the reverse 'Nana. German plane shot this photo by Grandad's bunk. Mildenhall.149 Squ 1939. Photo taken at Beales Bournemouth'.
Information supplied with the collection states 'this stood on her father’s bunk at RAF Mildenhall and was damaged when a German aircraft bombed the station. The nicks on the photo caused by shattering glass can still be seen. '
Creator
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Beale's Bournemouth
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1939
Temporal Coverage
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1939
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
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eng
Type
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Photograph
Format
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One colourised photograph
Identifier
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PFrancisR1913, PFrancisR1914
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Suffolk
149 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
RAF Mildenhall
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/858/11100/AHarrisHST150909.2.mp3
0644ea5d3fae401b624fe3f915057fc0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Harris, Harry
Harry Stracan Thomson Harris
H S T Harris
Sam Harris
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Harry Stracan Thomson Harris (162261 Royal Air Force). He flew two tours of operations as a navigator with 103 Squadron and later with 105 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Harris, HST
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BW: Alright. This is Brian Wright and I’m interviewing Mr Harry Harris on Wednesday the 9th of September at 2:25 in the afternoon in his house. So, Harry, you were in the RAF, in Bomber Command. What was your rank when you left?
HH: Flight lieutenant.
BW: Ok. And start us off. Just please tell me about your home life before the war.
HH: Well in 1939 I lived in ‘Trose and I went down to London to start a chef’s course at the Westminster College for Cookery and I stayed with an aunt who lived in London. I was there during the Blitz and then my, my cousin and I didn’t agree so I was evacuated to Exeter as an evacuee.
BW: Right.
HH: But I didn’t like it at Exeter and I came back to London. Started, re-started on the course and I lived in a sort of YMCA place beside the River Thames and it was the centre of the bombing there and, but I liked it. I went out every night to watch the bombers. But then I had to leave and I found out later, my aunt had been paying for my education and she had to stop work and look after her parents. So, I had to go home and I worked for a year in a mental, the hospital of a mental asylum.
BW: And what year was that?
HH: That was in 1941. And then when I became seventeen and a half — it was 1940, I came back. And when I became seventeen and a half I volunteered as a pilot at Aberdeen. Then I went to Edinburgh about July to do the course. The tests and things. And they drilled me then as a navigator and I found out much later, when I was at the RAF flying college that if you got a certain, they did a maths test and if you got above a certain number you automatically qualified as a navigator. Under that you became a pilot or an air gunner. And we used to, when we found out we used to call them the dim pilots [laughs] because they couldn’t pass the test. But then I went to, went to London to Lord’s Cricket Ground. That was where we think we met. And then went down to Torquay. Babbacombe near Torquay, for the first course. Training course. And then from there to Eastbourne for another course and from there went to, to South Africa for our flying. We landed at Cape Town and went up to Pretoria and then down to Port Elizabeth where we did our course. Our flying course. And then passed out and got our wings. I got mine in November 1942.
BW: And this was your navigator wings.
HH: Navigator. Yes.
BW: Right. What prompted you to become a navigator? I think you mentioned earlier you wanted to be a pilot.
HH: A pilot. Yeah. Well when I went —
BW: Why the change?
HH: When I went to this board at Edinburgh. I forget what they called the board. Screening board. And we did, you know, oral interviews. We had written tests and one was a maths test and apparently that’s when the heavy bombers were coming in and they wanted navigators and so they did this by choosing above a certain percentage in the maths test. You were automatically selected as navigator.
BW: Ok. And when you went down to Cape Town for the, for the flying was that the navigational instructional part of flying?
HH: Yes.
BW: So you were put in an aircraft and learned to navigate.
HH: That’s right. Yeah. We flew in Oxfords. Yeah.
BW: Ok.
HH: At Port Elizabeth. And there used to be three u/t navigators in an aircraft. One was navigating. One was sitting beside the pilot and using the wind to find out the winds and the other one did the Astra. And —
BW: The Astra being the star navigations.
HH: Astra navigation. Yeah. And on the second last one of our course we flew out over the sea and our course commander was an ex-naval officer and we flew over the sea and we saw all these lifeboats. A tremendous number of lifeboats. We couldn’t communicate with them so we came back to Port Elizabeth and they sent out a boat and picked up all the survivors. But the next day we went out again. This time I was sitting in the front with the pilot and I saw a boat. It was a U-boat.
BW: Right.
HH: And the pilot, the South African pilot and he turned towards this U-boat and started diving. Now this U-boat came up, there was three gunners at the far end of the boat with a gun and they were firing at us and the shells were just going two or three feet above us because they weren’t allowing for us going down. So we carried a depth charge and as we got closer the three men ran towards the conning tower. As we got closed the conning tower was closed so they couldn’t get in. We dropped the depth charge and at this time we were only about fifty feet and this time we turned. There was nothing left. The U-boat had gone. And years, years later I met the course commander and, you know I asked if anything had happened about that. And he said, ‘No. They never confirmed the loss of a U-boat.’ Yeah.
BW: So you weren’t sure whether it had dived and avoided it or whether it had been hit.
HH: No. We didn’t know.
BW: There was no trace of it.
HH: No.
BW: Right. And that was just on, that was just on the training.
HH: [laughs] Yes. On training. That was our last trip. Funny. We went back to Cape Town and then, I forget where and we got on the boat again to come home. And we were in the South Atlantic when we, the ship ran into the wreckage of a ship that had been torpedoed. We lost a propeller and had to go in to New York and we got there on the 26th of December. And we were there for three weeks. Beautiful.
BW: Very good. And so, you then must have come back from America.
HH: We came back to New York.
BW: At some point.
HH: Back to Glasgow. Yeah. And then we did more flying at Wigtown on Ansons. Just to get acclimatized, you know, with the country. And then we went to the Operational Training Unit and it’s all written down there. That’s where we met the first of the crew. The pilot was Ken Murray and he’d trained in America and he wanted to fly on fighters. And when he found he was going to be flying on bombers he wasn’t a very happy chap I can tell you. But we got on well.
BW: Good.
HH: And the first day there they had to crew-up and at the end of the day there was twelve of us hadn’t crewed-up. That was two crews. So we want to the pub in Loughborough and somehow we got together and we stayed together.
BW: And this was The Golden Fleece in Loughborough. Is that right?
HH: Yeah. And the other crew that were there that night they were killed at the Operational Training Unit. They crashed on take-off and they were all killed. So if I’d gone with the other pilot I wouldn’t be here today.
BW: That’s fate isn’t it?
HH: It is. Yeah.
BW: So you were based in, in Lincolnshire.
HH: Yeah. Elsham Wolds.
BW: Or Leicestershire. About there. Is that right? At that time?
HH: Pardon?
BW: You were based around Leicestershire at that time if you were in Loughborough.
HH: At that time. Yeah. We must. We did our first operation from there.
BW: So where were you, where you were based at this point on — had you joined operations at this stage? Now you’d crewed up.
HH: No. No. We, we went. We did our flying training on Wellingtons. Wellington 1Cs. And at the end of the course we went on an operation to Dunkirk. And it’s all written down there. And when we got over the target we got hit by flak but we managed to get back home. The hydraulic system had gone. So had to wind down the undercarriage. Wind down flaps. And the next morning the engineer came and said that the shell had missed the fuel tank by three inches [laughs] And we wouldn’t be here.
BW: Wow.
HH: Yeah. He had it all. He said three inches.
BW: And so the early part of your flying career then you were flying in Wellingtons.
HH: Yeah. Wellington 1Cs. Yeah.
BW: And from then on, I mean we understand that you went on to fly Lancasters.
HH: On to Lancasters. Yeah.
BW: How many operations did you fly on Wellingtons?
HH: One. Just the one.
BW: Just the one.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And how was the change made, or the decision made for you to fly Lancasters?
HH: Well we, from the Wellingtons we went to train on Halifaxes. And then when the pilot was capable of flying the Halifax we went on to Lancasters. And then when they were satisfied that he was fit then we went to 576 Squadron, Elsham Wolds.
BW: And Elsham Wolds is also in Lincolnshire isn’t it?
HH: Yeah. Lincoln. Lincolnshire.
BW: And how did you find that change from Halifaxes to Lancasters? Was there—
HH: Oh, I loved the Lancaster. Yeah. That was, yeah.
BW: And there are more, are there the same number of crew in the Wellingtons?
HH: Yeah. Same number of crew. Yeah.
BW: Ok. So you were able to keep the same crew together?
HH: Oh yes. The same crew. Yeah.
BW: And what were the living conditions like on base at that time?
HH: Well, there was Nissen huts. I suppose we got used to them. Each Nissen hut got somehow fourteen, somehow twenty beds and you just got used to it. You had, well they just had the basics I suppose.
BW: Just a bed and blankets.
HH: Bed and blankets in them.
BW: And a stove in the middle.
HH: Yeah. Yeah there was three, I forget what they call them now. Three square things made up the mattress. Yeah. And that’s all there was. And the washing facilities were always outside. And in the wintertime there was no heating in the ablutions and so the water was freezing cold. Sometimes frozen altogether. And the heating inside the stoves [pause] well you used what you could. Logs or anything we used to use just to keep the place warm when we were there.
BW: Did you have the hut to yourself or were you sharing with another crew?
HH: We shared. Until we got to the squadron we shared with another crew. When we got to Elsham Wolds we had to wait until they got the Nissen ready. And we got the Nissen and we found out later that we had to wait because the crew that had occupied the Nissen had gone missing. And there was room for two crews actually but we only ever had the one crew in it. The losses was pretty heavy so we only ever had just the one. Just ourselves.
BW: And were you fairly close to the aircraft? Or to the mess?
HH: No. We had to get —
BW: Whereabouts on the base were you?
HH: We all had cycles. It was about a mile, a mile and a half to cycle.
BW: Each day. Just to —
HH: Yeah. Just to get up to the main part.
BW: Right.
HH: Yeah. Yeah. All the living accommodation was spread away from the airfield.
BW: Right. I’m just going to pause the recording for the moment.
[recording paused]
BW: I just paused the recording there to allow us to just put the door to and avoid any background noise. So, continuing on you were at Elsham Wolds then. You were flying Lancasters. And you were living in Nissen huts.
HH: Yeah.
BW: At the edge of the airfield. What were your, or describe for me if you would please a typical sortie for a Lancaster operation from sort of getting ready to do the operation and then flying it and then coming back. What was that like?
HH: Well we, we used to, every morning we went and got breakfast. Went up to the squadron offices and sometimes we would go ahead and do an air test and we’d wait until about lunchtime and then they would say whether the operations were on that night or not. That was usually around lunchtime. And then the briefing was with, there was a navigation briefing first. Just the navigator, the bomb aimer and the pilot there. And we got told the target, the route and I made out the flight plan. And when that was finished we went to the main operations room where the station commander, he would, all the crews were there and he would tell them where the operation was and that was the first they would know. We had known maybe half an hour, three quarters of an hour before but then they only knew then. And they went through the drill — what was happening, what the target was and any questions. And I can’t remember anybody ever asking a question [laughs] and then we went to the aircraft and took off at the allotted time.
BW: It, it’s been said at certain times that aircrew had superstitions. Were there any that you were aware of on your aircraft or in your crew?
HH: Any? Any what?
BW: Superstitions or habits or, guys would take, for example personal items with them as lucky charms. Were there any instances like that?
HH: See that picture behind you.
BW: There’s a, on the wall is a picture of, like a little gollywog.
HH: Yeah.
BW: Was that yours?
HH: Yeah. My wife, when we came back from South Africa my girlfriend, now my wife she bought me that and I wore that every time I flew. For the rest of my flying career I flew with that.
BW: And what’s —
HH: It’s downstairs.
BW: What sort of size is, is that? Is it, it must only have been a little figure was it?
HH: It was — high. Yes. It’s downstairs.
BW: So about three to four inches. Yeah Three or four inches tall.
HH: It just fitted inside the pocket. Yeah.
BW: Right. So that was your lucky charm that you took on a mission.
HH: That was my lucky charm. Yeah.
BW: It seems to have worked.
HH: The lucky charm and a box of matches in that pocket. And twenty cigarettes in the other one [laughs]
BW: About —
HH: I never ever flew again without that mascot. And I flew over nine and a half thousand hours.
BW: Wow. And did the, did your other mates have any similar things?
HH: Yeah. They had similar things but I can’t remember what they were.
BW: Right.
HH: But every one of them had a mascot. Every one [laughs]
BW: So you get into the aircraft. You get into the Lancaster and prepare. What sort of things would you start to do and the others start to do to, to get ready?
HH: Well, we, first of all we went to pick up our parachutes and Mae Wests. And then we got in a truck that took us out to the aircraft. We’d get inside and prepare. Like the pilot and the flight engineer would do all the checks. Checks. Myself and the bomb aimer, you know would get the flight plan and check all the other instruments were there. The wireless op was the same. And the air gunners, they would check all their equipment. And then it would be time to, to go to the take-off point. The take off point was a caravan and they gave a green light to take off. And beside that caravan, every time I can remember there was a crowd of WAAFs there. And airmen but mostly WAAFS would come to see us take off. And, and that, I was thinking back. That was the time that we were most frightened. Take-off time. Every time we talked it was, in case we would crash on take-off.
BW: Because the aircraft is fully loaded and fully fuelled.
HH: Fully loaded. Yeah. Had full fuel and we had a big cookie each. What was it? Two tonnes plus incendiaries. And one night we didn’t take off properly. We went through, past the end of the runway, through the fence at the end of the runway and luckily there was a quarry underneath and we went down in the quarry and came out at Brigg before we started to pull up again.
BW: So if there hadn’t been a quarry at the end of the runway — ?
HH: That was, we would have gone [laughs] That was, that was the worst one. Yeah.
BW: Wow.
HH: Yeah. That quarry saved us. And it was a long time it ever happened because we would fly over Brigg which was quite a few miles away before we started to climb.
BW: And yet the other aircraft would have been similarly fuelled and armed.
HH: Yeah but they —
BW: And they got off all right.
HH: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t know what it was. No. No.
BW: So, on the flight out you’re now airborne heading towards the enemy coast. What sort of things are happening in the aircraft at this stage?
HH: Well, on the Lancasters then we had a navigation aid called Gee. You know, where we could fix our position within, you know a half of mile. But once it got outside Britain the signal faded and the Germans were jamming it anyhow. So after that you relied just on, I don’t know the Pathfinders would pass winds and you used to use these winds because they had H2S which gave a map of the ground. But the winds weren’t always accurate. Sometimes a long, long way out. And so we, we just had this Gee. That was all.
BW: And apart from that there was just dead reckoning presumably.
HH: Dead reckoning. That’s all there was. Yeah.
BW: Did you —
HH: But then we got an aircraft. It was fitted with H2S [laughs] That was towards the end and that, that was absolutely different altogether. Yeah.
BW: Made the job a lot easier.
HH: Yeah. It did. Yeah.
BW: So did you have to circle the airfield to form up?
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: Or did you meet the formation over a certain point?
HH: No. We, you were given your take-off time and the first crews took off first so, and then you had time to set course over the airfield. That’s sometimes you’d get airborne and it was twenty, twenty five minutes before you got back over the airfield for the right time to head out. And it was strongly, they put, always had the new crews on there. They should have put the older crews on that but they didn’t. They didn’t in our squadron.
BW: So you had, you had a separate take off time to be airborne.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And you then had to be overhead the airfield at a certain time to set course.
HH: Yeah. All aircraft. Well if it was fairly light you could see the other aircraft. Otherwise you didn’t.
BW: And did —
HH: And I think there were some crashes there too.
BW: And did you see much of the other aircraft throughout the rest of the sorties?
HH: No. No.
BW: Missions.
HH: Not unless they were caught in the searchlights. No.
BW: So —
HH: We did, it was all night stuff we did.
BW: So presumably then very rarely would you actually see other aircraft in the, in the formation.
HH: No. You wouldn’t. No.
BW: How did it feel then? Did it feel as part of a combined effort or did it feel pretty much as a lone crew out there?
HH: Well it just, it was just the sort of thing you did, you know. I don’t know. As I said the only time we saw other aircraft was when they were caught in the searchlights. And over a target, you know when the target was all lit up then you could see other aircraft. Usually then there was full searchlights. But no. In the darkness we never saw anything.
BW: So when you left the shores of England and you were flying out over the Sea were you able to see France or the Dutch coast at all?
HH: No. No. No. It was always dark. Always dark. Never saw the ground.
BW: Did you ever receive any attention from the flak guns on the ground below or from night fighters at all?
HH: We once had night fighters and the rear gunner, he fired his guns but then I don’t know what happened. It just disappeared. That was the only time.
BW: And so when it came to being over the target what would be happening in the aircraft then?
HH: Well, the bomb aimer would be down giving directions. He’d find the [pause] the what do you call it? [laughs] The target indicator. And it was red, blue, whatever it was. And he’d find that and he’d head towards that and give directions to the pilot — left, left, right. And then the flight engineer and the pilot were in their seats. I would get out of mine and I would stand behind the flight engineer to see what was going on. And the, then there’s bombs gone and then they had to wait because the camera would take a photograph. So it was like forty seconds I think till the bombs went down and once the photograph was taken it was bomb doors closed. I would give the pilot the next heading and off we’d go.
BW: And all this time on the run in to the target and the run out you had to keep straight and level.
HH: Oh yes.
BW: One, in order to, to allow the bombs to fall accurately but also to allow the photograph to be taken.
HH: Had to be absolutely straight and level. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Were there times when that wasn’t possible?
HH: The only times if you’d got behind another aircraft and then you’d go bumpety bump. That was awful. But when I was, later when I was in Mosquitoes and doing the bombing that was beautiful. The Mosquito could hold itself nicely. But the Lancaster, no. There was always aircraft in front. It was a bit bumpy, you know.
BW: Just because of the turbulence —
HH: Turbulence. Yeah.
BW: From the aircraft ahead. And so once you’d dropped the, dropped the bombs and turned for home what sort of things were going on then? What —
HH: Well, that was, I think that’s when we lost a lot of the aircraft but I’m not sure because the German fighters then, they were all from over the place, had gone. They knew where the target was and had gone there and there was lots and lots of fighters.
BW: So the gunners were pretty active.
HH: We could, we could see the other aircraft being shot down. We’d see the tracer bullets and this sort of thing. It’s quite a lot of, the worst one was on the Nuremberg raid where we lost ninety five. And on the way out it was a long, straight course and the fighters got up. And I was inside there, I didn’t see anything but the flight engineer was saying, ‘There’s another one,’ and the pilot said, ‘It’s only dummies. It’s only dummies. They’re just shooting dummies. There’s no aircraft there.’ And when we got back to base, at the debriefing he said, ‘And we lost an awful lot of aircraft on the way out.’ Oh [laughs] Trying to keep us from being frightened. Yeah.
BW: When, during the flight back did you begin to feel safe again?
HH: I think we felt safe all the way really. It was just we’d done the job and I was just getting back.
BW: Ok.
HH: I can’t, all I was worried about mostly was when we could pick up the navigation. Gee. You know. To be sure we were in the right place. But I, I don’t think we were. I could be wrong but I don’t think we worried too much going back. You know. It was going out. The very worst time was the take-off. That was, we all agreed that was the worst time.
BW: So once you were in the air the nerves started to settle a bit with doing your job.
HH: You were doing your job then. Yeah.
BW: So, roughly how long would each sortie or each operation have been then?
HH: About six hours. It’s all in there somewhere. Each one. About six hours I think. Yeah. But then after a while we started going to the French targets and that was, you know five hours maybe. And the very last one was on D-Day. We went to Vire Bridge in Northern France. And that was the first time that the bomb aimer had seen where the bombs landed. And two of them landed on the bridge. He was so happy we hit it.
BW: What was the name of the bridge again?
HH: Vire. V I R E.
BW: Oh. I see.
HH: Yeah. My eldest daughter’s, well she’s been going to France for years to a motorbike thing and she brought back a picture of somewhere around. There is a picture of Vire Bridge.
BW: Obviously rebuilt since your bomb aimer put two bombs on it.
HH: Yeah. Funnily enough on Mosquitoes I only once saw where the bombs dropped. It was a Cookie we carried. No, I wasn’t. Sometimes. And I can still see it. Yeah. There was a very, very wide road. A canal running along the side and a building with a massive door at the side. The bomb landed in the middle of this so it must have blown the door, must have blown the side off the factory. That’s what we were aiming for. The factory. That was the only once.
BW: And the bomb hit. It landed on the road. Or landed in the —
HH: Landed on the road. Yeah. It was halfway between the building and the canal.
BW: But it still blew the factory down.
HH: It would have. It was only about ten fifteen yards from the wall so it must have blown it right, right out. And the factory too, I hope.
BW: And when you returned to base after a successful operation what then happened? You mentioned debriefing.
HH: The debriefing. Yeah. You went in front of the intelligence officers and they, they mainly the questions, you know. They wanted to know anything and we just told them about the trip.
BW: And what sort of questions would they ask?
HH: Oh, about the Pathfinders. Did they drop the right, did they drop the right colours and that? Did you think they were in the right place? And this sort of thing. About the timing. Did you see any enemy aircraft and enemy gunfire? That was the sort of things they wanted to know. Just the defences.
BW: And once you’d had the debriefing? What? What then?
HH: Oh, we went back. Handed in our parachutes and Mae Wests and then went for a meal in the mess.
BW: How did you spend your spare time between operations?
HH: Well, we were at Elsham Wolds and it was quite, quite a long way to, Brigg was the nearest place. And Scunthorpe was beyond that. And we’d, initially we’d all go out together, all seven of us and we’d go to Brigg and drink in the pub there. And we had bicycles so we’d cycle there and cycle back. And then the pilot got commissioned so he sort of left us then and we split. We did the same as before. And then the bomb aimer and the flight engineer, they met a couple of people and they went to their home. You know and they sometimes stayed overnight if they could. And the two air gunners, they went on their bikes and they cycled all the way up to the Humber and they went together. So there was the wireless operator and myself and we just went our own way to the pub and the dance hall and back. That was it. Go to Scunthorpe. Got the train to Scunthorpe and get the last train back.
BW: And were you on ops every night or were there periods —
HH: Oh no. No. No. No. Very seldom it was two nights in a row. Sometimes there’d be a week’s gap or something. And every four days, every four weeks we had a week’s leave. But because of the losses sometimes we got leave every three weeks. Yeah. The losses were pretty heavy at the time.
BW: How did you spend your leave when you got the opportunity?
HH: With my wife. She, we lived not far apart in the village and we used to go out dancing and that sort of thing. That was all. In the summertime, well in the summertime then we had the bikes and we went biking, walking. But in the wintertime that was all there was because she was working all the time.
BW: How did you meet?
HH: Well we lived, my father and mother, my father was in the Royal Marines during the First World War and my mother was in the Women’s Royal Air Force near [unclear] in 1919. And they both lived in ‘Trose and they both went as nurses at the asylum, Montrose Royal Asylum. They both went as nurses. They met and got married and then I came along. And in that asylum, it was a small community and Mary’s father was the grieve. I don’t know, the head farmer. He was in charge of the farm. It was a great big farm. A really huge farm. So, you know, all the kids, we used to all play together and that in the grounds of the asylum. That’s how we met.
BW: And so you’d knew each other for a while before the war started and before you joined up.
HH: Oh knows, we played together and her brothers and that since we were five years old, you know, so. But it wasn’t until I was going overseas that I had a few days leave and I met her. And we just had a couple of days, you know going out and then we wrote and then it was another about fourteen months I think before we met again. Yeah.
BW: And how did you re-meet? When did you —
HH: Oh we kept writing all the time. Yeah. And then we got married in 1947 because I was going to be posted to an airfield in London, or near London. And I’d phoned the adjutant and he said accommodation was no problem. My wife would get a job. That was no problem. He guaranteed everything. So we got married. Went on honeymoon. Three days later we were going out the hotel and the porter came around and said I was wanted on the phone. I thought, ‘Oh. There’s only, there’s only the Air Ministry know I’m here.’ So I went and they said, ‘You’re posted to Singapore. You’re leaving in one week’s time.’ And so I went off to Singapore and at that time you weren’t considered married until you were twenty five. Well I was only twenty three. So it was eighteen months before she could join me.
BW: Just because of the service rules.
HH: Oh yeah. Eighteen months.
BW: So just, I’d just like to go back. You mentioned about flying Mosquitoes. At what stage during your career, your service career did you change to Mosquitoes?
HH: Well, when we finished operations on Lancasters I was posted to a Canadian run Operational Training Unit. They were flying Wellingtons. It was run by Canadians for Canadians but in this country. And the only RAF people there were the station commander, a group captain and a wireless operator. He’d done a tour of operations himself. But we were the only RAF personnel. And instead of lecturing I used to just to go up, fly with them in an aircraft with the trainees. And that was all that was done so I got fed up with this and I went and saw the station commander and said I wanted a posting. And he said, ‘No. No.’ And every Monday morning I went. In the end he said, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘I’ve arranged for you to go before a commissioning board.’ And so myself and the wireless operator went before this commissioning board and got our commissions. And the next day I went to see the group captain [laughs] He said, ‘Now, don’t tell me.’ I said, ‘Yes.’ And a week later he, he arranged for me to go on Mosquitoes. That was good.
BW: And did you move onto that squadron on your own or were there any mates that went with you?
HH: No. Just on my —
BW: Just on your own.
HH: Just on my own. Went to the, what do they call it where you all met? The pilots and navigators. And I crewed-up with this George Nunn. He crewed-up with me. He picked me [laughs] And so we flew together. We flew on Oxfords at first during this training and then on to Mosquitoes. And then on to the squadron. And then when the war finished in Europe I had a navigator friend, he was from the West Indies and he was going to London to meet his own people. So, I went down to London with him to this pub. It was full of West Indians and, but we had a good time. And then they said that 105 Squadron, Mosquito squadron was going to start training for the Far East. I thought — oh. So, I went back to thingummybob and saw the wing commander and I said I would like to transfer to 105 Squadron. And he went up in the air because he was organising this sort of, what do they call it [pause] West Indies. A big aircraft thing. Commercial aircraft. He was going to be the boss and he was looking for people to fly. And so I kept on and he said, ‘Well,’ he said, ‘You haven’t got a chance going by yourself. You have to find a pilot.’ Well, George wasn’t keen because he wanted to go back to his old job but when he, when he heard that he said, ‘Right. Away we go.’ So we got posted to 105 Squadron. And we were doing this, this new bombing aid they had. And we were ready. Just to be ready to go to the Far East when the war finished.
BW: But you got, you got out there it must have been late 1945 then.
HH: Yeah.
BW: In that case.
HH: Yeah. So 1945 finished with Mosquitoes and I went on the training on what they called BABS. It was a blind landing aid. And we went to various Transport Command stations and taught them how to fly this. And then I got, got married and then Singapore on 48 Squadron.
BW: And what were you flying there?
HH: Dakotas.
BW: How long were you out in the Far East?
HH: Just over two and a half years. I flew a lot to Hong Kong. India. Bangkok. A couple of times to Australia. It was quite good. A good trip. Yeah.
BW: How did you find the change from navigating in Lancasters to Mosquitoes? Both aircraft have different, slightly different reputations.
HH: Yes. Well —
BW: What was the experience like for you?
HH: The big, the big thing with the Mosquito was the space. It was the pilot sitting, like a pilot would sit, sit there.
BW: Yeah.
HH: And I would sit here [laughs] and he had all these instruments in front of him. And just down below was the bomb bay. So that, you know, after the space in the Lancaster, you know, a table this size you just had a thing you picked up like that.
BW: A notepad.
HH: It was a chart and everything there.
BW: Yeah.
HH: So it was quite different.
BW: It seems different in the sense that when you were in the Lancaster you would be working as a single navigator.
HH: Yeah.
BW: But yet, when you were in the Mosquito you would be doing two roles because you were the bomb aimer as well.
HH: Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, we got trained on bomb aiming. Yeah. We got, we did our training, bomb aiming training on Mosquitoes and I remember flying over somewhere in Lincolnshire one day bomb aiming and something happened going towards the target and something happened and the bomb went. The bomb released. And [laughs] you saw it and it landed in a farm yard. So we went back and, you know reported it because there was maybe something wrong with the bombing. Anyhow, the next day we got a phone message from a farmer. He invited us all out for a drink [laughs] Because they’d gone to the farm, they’d apologised. He wanted to know who they were and he invited us all out. Not us but the whole squadron for a drink. So I don’t know what had happened. If he had insurance or something like that.
BW: Was it a practice bomb that had dropped? Or —
HH: A practice bomb. Yeah.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Fifteen pounds. You know.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And it just happened to come off the —
HH: Yeah.
BW: Off the release and into the farmyard. What sort of operations were you flying in Mosquitoes then? And how, how different were they to those on the Lancasters?
HH: Well the Mosquitoes we did, I think it was fifteen trips to Berlin. We did nineteen trips altogether and fifteen to Berlin. And it [pause] it was, I don’t know. In some ways it was easier that a Lancaster trip. We never worried we’d take-off. That never worried us. And it was just a case of getting to the target and it was a lot shorter time. Four and a half hours to Berlin and back instead of nine hours. And now, you used to get down, do the bombing and never had any problems.
BW: Were you part of the Pathfinder Force on Mosquitoes?
HH: No. No. Not the Path, no.
BW: Or were you —
HH: We were just ordinary. Yeah. No, we had the Pathfinders in front of us. They dropped the target indicators. And it was, no, it was, I don’t know it was just the two of us there sitting like this, close together. And sitting in there somewhere we left Berlin one night and we were always they always got coned by the searchlights. Every time we went there. And I just, I used to like that because I could see inside the bomb bay, you know. See the bombs and everything. We never minded. And we were coming back out one night and the searchlights, you know and it was no good trying to dodge them and suddenly the searchlights stopped. They all dropped. And I looked. There’s was a blister at the side and I looked behind and I could see lights. Red and green lights and I thought, I said to George, I said, ‘There’s some silly bugger going in there with his lights on.’ I said, I said, ‘No. He’s overtaken us. I said, ‘Direct to starboard. Go.’ And George, and they were pffft. The cannon shells came right across. And one of them took the top off the aircraft. We went down and the searchlights had come on. George got blinded and we were going whoooa and essentially —
BW: Apparently down.
HH: There were, the heavy aircraft were bombing, I forget the name of the place and we could visualise that and he turned and got the aircraft right and then looked at the altimeter and we were only about fifteen hundred feet above the ground and we’d come from twenty four thousand [laughs] Oh God. And anyhow we made it back. And it was years later when I was at the RAF flying college I was reading about, you know this thing and on that night, at that time, at that place, this German fighter that shot down a Mosquito [laughs]. I thought that’s great. It was the exact time and everything as that.
BW: If, if that’s the same account as I read about that was a raid over Potsdam. Near Berlin. Is that right?
HH: No. No. That was. We were at Berlin actually itself.
BW: Berlin itself.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And is it, was it right that the report said it was a Messerschmitt 262. It was a jet. A German jet.
HH: Yeah.
BW: So they were using those as night fighters.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And, and you were very lucky not to have put his bullets into the cockpit.
HH: Yeah. Just lucky we dived in time and just in the, oh and one, one of the bullets had gone through the tail fin. Right through the middle. The next day the ground crew there were sticking sticks through it [laughs] I thought, oh my God, that was close. Yeah. It was nice.
BW: I believe on that, on that particular raid on, as that was happening and you were spinning down you ended up upside down and you were on the, on the canopy.
HH: On the top. Yeah.
BW: So you were being pulled out of your seat.
HH: Yeah. Oh yeah.
BW: While the aircraft is upside down and you were on the canopy trying to get your parachute together. Is that right?
HH: I undid my harness to, to go down and get my parachute and open the bomb doors. Open the exit place. And it wouldn’t open. And so I got back and then I was sitting on the seat and she went pffft. Yeah. On our first Lancaster raid we never got to the target. We lost two of the engines and we had a full bomb load and a fuel load so we turned back and headed for The Wash to jettison the bombs. And the bomb aimer thought, you know, we thought well in case anything happens we’d better get ready to bale out. He couldn’t open the doors. Just, it was the pressure and that, it just wouldn’t open. So if anything had happened we couldn’t have got out. But we jettisoned the bombs over The Wash and then jettisoned some of the fuel because it was a tremendous amount of fuel we carried.
BW: But you managed to land safely.
HH: Oh yeah. Yeah. We did. Yeah.
BW: And were you ever caught in searchlights on other raids as well? You mentioned —
HH: Oh yeah. Lots of times. Yeah. Especially on Mosquitoes. Every time we went near the target they picked us up because they had a lot, a lot of searchlights then. But on the Lancaster I think there was only two or three times we got caught in searchlights. Just for a short time.
BW: Did the pilot have to take evasive action?
HH: Well in the Mosquito, we stopped because we couldn’t get out of them. They were, you know coming from all sides and it didn’t matter. On a Lancaster he could get out of them. Yeah.
BW: But you were never intercepted by fighters except for the, for the one occasion.
HH: Except for that once. Yeah. And very lucky.
BW: Were there other raids over France that you, that you recall? You mention one on the —
HH: Vire. Yeah.
BW: Vire Bridge.
HH: The one, the worst one of all was [pause] oh my memory. Starts with an M. It was the marshalling yards in the north of France. Now, what Bomber Command didn’t realise was that the Germans were sending troops up to the battlefield and the big anti-aircraft was based at this railway station. And we went in. If I remember rightly it was ninety five Lancasters from Number 1 Group. And we went in and just it was murder actually. And I think we lost forty nine. It’s all there somewhere. This stuff. Ninety five and we lost about half of them. That German anti-aircraft unit was stationed there and we were, for the Lancaster we were flying, you know at fifteen thousand feet. Which is ideal for them. Yeah. That was a tremendous loss.
BW: There’s a lot of reports I’ve seen of the German anti-aircraft fire being extremely accurate. It was always at the right height.
HH: Oh yeah. Yeah.
BW: But you never got hit yourself.
HH: No. Just that once in a Wellington. You know, that first flight. That’s the only time we got hit.
BW: You mentioned about flying on or around D-Day. Were you flying operations in support of D-Day? Do you remember anything about the build up?
HH: We didn’t know anything about it. D-Day was the 6th of June. We went out to a target in Northern France on the 5th of June but we didn’t know. Nobody knew it was about D-Day. And coming back, on the H2S on the Channel I saw the Channel was full of ships. And I said, ‘It’s the invasion. It’s D-Day,’ and we went back to, to Elsham and they said it’s D-Day in the morning and we just all laughed. And I said we saw them, you know, on the radar. And of course it was. Next day was D-Day. It was tremendous seeing all these ships. Yeah. But then we did our last trip then and that was it.
BW: And so very soon after that you finished flying on Lancasters. Just after D-Day.
HH: Yeah. On D-Day. That was our last trip. Yeah.
BW: And then you changed then to flying Mosquitoes.
HH: Now the pilot, he went back on Lancasters in ’45. Mid-upper gunner and the rear gunner, they both went back on operations ’45. But the wireless operator he just got to a squadron when the war finished. And the flight engineer, he didn’t want to do anymore because he’d got married.
BW: And did they let him? Let him —
HH: He was training. Yeah. He was. Yeah. Oh yeah. He spent his time training.
BW: But all the way through that you managed to keep together as a crew.
HH: Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then we met again in 1978. It’s all written down there. It’s a long long story. It was a young chap. He went to Bristol to see the boat racing there. And he was staying the night in a pub and he saw an axe hanging up behind the bar and he asked the barman. He said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘I used to break up aircraft after the war. During the war and after the war. And that’s from one of the aircraft.’ And he says, ‘Oh which aircraft?’ And he said, ‘Oh it’s got on it.’ And the bloke went and found out and it was our aircraft we used to fly in. And he lived in Kent. And he went to an air gunner’s meeting and met our air gunner and said, ‘Do you know, and it was our axe.’ And so from there you know we all got together then. It’s all written down there.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Bit by bit we wrote. And then they formed the Elsham Wolds Association. That’s how they got in touch with me from there.
BW: And were there more than one squadron based at Elsham Wolds?
HH: Yeah. Two squadrons there. 576. Was it 103 Squadron, I think? Yeah. I’m not sure. I think it was 103.
BW: And were they both Lancaster squadrons?
HH: Yeah. Yeah.
[pause]
BW: And so it seems you’ve had a pretty eventful and successful career and managed to avoid the, sort of impact of anti-aircraft fire.
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: And night fighters.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And all the sort of other dangers that people experienced in, and you —
HH: I was really lucky. Yeah. Really, really lucky.
BW: Did you ever know any crews that became prisoners? That had been shot down over France?
HH: Yeah.
BW: Were any captured?
HH: I think it may be in there. If not I’ll —
BW: Ok.
HH: I tried to, there was thirty two of us passed out in South Africa. At the end of the war there was only eleven of us alive and three of these was prisoners of war. I contacted you know because like the magazines, aircraft magazines they used to print losses you know. Who was killed and that. And I used to keep a look out for it all. Yeah. There’s eleven and I met, you know I met all eleven eventually.
BW: So you’ve done a lot of work to keep track of those guys that you met.
HH: Oh yeah. Well that’s —
BW: You keep in touch with them.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And that chance reunion in a pub down south with one of your, was it a bomb aimer who saw the axe over the, over the, at the pub?
HH: No. No. It was another bloke. Just a chap who was out there.
BW: I see.
HH: He lived in Kent and he went, he went to the Air Gunner’s Association because he thought maybe somebody knows about this axe. And he was right. Our mid-upper gunner did. And so it was he was he that formed the Society at Elsham Wolds. John. He’s been here once or twice. John Wiltshire. That was his name.
BW: John Wiltshire. And is he still around? Has he passed?
HH: I don’t know. I don’t know.
BW: Right [pause] Something I’m intrigued about if I could just ask. It’s your nickname. You have a nickname. Sam. Is that right?
HH: Yeah. Well —
BW: How did that come about?
HH: Well when we were going out to South Africa on the boat we used to have drills. You know. We had rifles and bayonets. We used to do drills and one day we were doing a drill and I dropped my rifle. And the course comedian, of course he says, ‘Sam, Sam pick up thy rifle.’ That was a song that was going at the time.
BW: I see.
HH: That stuck with me ever since. ‘Sam, Sam pick up thy rifle.’ [pause] Then when I went to that Canadian OTU I got Jock then. Jock Harris.
BW: Jock Harris. And you have the same surname of course.
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: As Bomber Harris.
HH: Yeah. The RAF.
BW: Was that ever put to you? The same nickname or —
HH: No. No. No.
BW: The RAF only had room for one Bomber Harris.
HH: Yeah. Only room for one.
[pause]
BW: Are there any other sort of memorable operations or, or events that perhaps spring to mind?
HH: Let’s think. No. I think we had it very easy really. [pause] No. The first Mosquito operation was fogged-in at base. It was fogged-in and we were running out of fuel and the pilot, George, he’d seen an airfield further back so we went back. We found this airfield and we were just, just wait to land and the engine stopped. Went bump on the runway and the fire brigade and that came out and got us out, you know. Bundled us out the aircraft and left the aircraft on the runway. And Lancasters, it was a Lancaster base and they were circling around the top because they couldn’t land. So we went and got debriefed and went to the mess and were having a cup of cocoa or something and there was a great thump on my shoulders. And I looked around. It was a chap who I lived next door to, we were born within three weeks of each other. We lived next door to each for about fourteen or fifteen years and he was on the one of the Lancasters. And he said, ‘Is that your heap of wood lying out there?’ [laughs]
BW: Is that your heap of wood lying out there?
HH: Yeah.
BW: Yeah.
HH: Jim Cassell. He’d got a mighty slap [laughs]
BW: What a way to meet up after living all that time next door to each other.
HH: Yeah.
BW: And then bumping into each other.
HH: Yeah.
BW: Literally in the, in the debriefing room. Which was your favourite aircraft, do you think to fly?
HH: The Lancaster during the wartime. But after that the Britannia was a beautiful aircraft. Yeah. That was the best one. But during the war the Lancaster. Yeah.
BW: You mentioned when you went out to serve with 105 Squadron in the Far East and you continued to stay out in the Far East for about two and a half years. At what stage then did you leave the RAF and what prompted the move?
HH: Oh 1968. I went to [pause] let me see. I left 48 Squadron. Came back to this country. I did a course, instructor’s course and then I instructed people to become navigators. In two places. And then I went to a place where they were training pilots on Meteors. I was a navigation officer and all sort of things. Then I went to RAF flying college as an instructor and was there for a while. Then went on Transport Command on Hastings, Britannias and VC10s.
BW: So you pretty well stayed on multi engine aircraft.
HH: Oh yeah.
BW: All the way, all the way through. Even though when you were instructing navigators for Meteors.
HH: Yeah.
BW: You weren’t flying Meteors yourself.
HH: Oh yeah. I flew in Meteors.
BW: You were. Right. You flew Meteors as well.
HH: Yeah. I, one of the blokes, he was a Polish bloke and at that time there were at the Farnborough thing. You know flying an aircraft straight up and then it would sort of come down, you know so he said, he got me flying. He said, ‘We’re going to try that today’ [laughs] We went up and the thing toppled over backwards and I was going to, I said, ‘I’m going to eject,’ and, ‘No. No. No,’ and he pulled it out then.
BW: So instead of going up nice and vertical and coming back tail down there the same axis you fell out backwards.
HH: Yeah. That’s the last time he tried it. Yeah. And I flew with Gus Walker on Canberras at the flying college. We did a trip to the North Pole from Norway but we ran out of oxygen just about seventy miles from the North Pole and we had to come back and we descended to the oxygen level and we landed at this place in Norway, Bardufoss. And as we landed we ran out of fuel and bump. She came down with a crash.
BW: You were very lucky there again.
HH: There. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Just made it home in time.
HH: Just made it.
BW: With no fuel.
HH: Yeah. Gus Walker. He was a really nice bloke. Gus. We were up to the top there once before and the Canberra couldn’t get back in. We were going to land then further south and there was a Hastings there and no pilot except Gus and he’d never flown a Hastings before [laughs] And he says to us, he says, ‘Will it be alright if I fly it? And we said, ‘Yeah. Yeah.’ And he flew it down there. Flew it to Oslo. It was alright. One of the funny things was when we was on Britannias there was a scare over Germany where a German aircraft or something had buzzed a civil aircraft. And somehow it got arranged that newspaper people would come and fly in a Britannia and this sort of thing would be, would be happening. And I was a navigator and Gus Walker was in charge of this lot. And he came up to the flight deck and we were chatting there and forgot all the fact that everything was going through to all the passengers as well [laughs] And then I looked up and I said to the pilot, ‘That’s not the airfield. We’re at the wrong airfield. Another airfield across there.’ And then I thought oh my. And Gus Walker went back and when we landed all the press came out and then one of them come across. He said, ‘That was good. I listened to all that. That was really really good. I enjoyed that.’ But nothing came out in the papers happily.
BW: So you managed to find the right airfield eventually.
HH: Yeah. Gus Walker. Yeah.
BW: Did you come across any famous pilots in the RAF at all? There were well known guys. People like Gibson flew Mosquitoes. Did you ever come across —
HH: Douglas Bader. I met him twice. Once when he was doing the instructing on, just after the war. I met him down south somewhere. And then when I was on 48 Squadron in Singapore he, I don’t know, he came in there to the mess. I don’t know. I can’t remember. And he recognized me in the crowd and I thought [laughs] and everybody’s [pause] yeah. He was a nice bloke.
BW: Ok. Is there anything that you would like to show us on the computer at all. But I think —
HH: I think you’ve got it —
BW: It might be a case of printing it.
HH: I think it’s all on there.
BW: Ok.
HH: Wherever you have it. Yeah.
BW: Ok.
HH: It’s all there. I hope. But if there’s anything else just phone. I’ll get it.
BW: Ok.
HH: I’ll tell you about these logbook pages.
[pause]
BW: Just going to have a look at some logbook pages.
[pause]
BW: We’re just, we’re just looking at one of the logbooks. Would you just describe what it says on the citation there? It’s dated 8th of October 1946. Is that right? At the bottom there.
HH: On 8th October 1946. Yeah. Something Headquarter 46 Group. Letter reference 46 at C250 something, something dated 20th of August 1946.
BW: What does the, so it says at the top. “Incidences of avoidance by exceptional flying skill and judgement of loss or damage to aircraft or personnel.” And it says, “Flying Officer HST Harris DFC, whilst navigation instructor on an Oxford aircraft EB798 during — ”
HH: “Exercise.”
BW: “Exercise.”
HH: “On eureka.”
BW: “On eureka.”
[pause]
HH: “Eureka homings”
BW: “Eureka homings from St Mawgan.”
HH: “From St Mawgan. The starboard engine failed and was feathered by — ”
BW: “By his skill.”
HH: “In operating the radar screen he enabled his pilot to carry out the shortened BABS. Let down.”
BW: “Guidance.”
HH: “And made a good landing in conditions, bad weather and poor visibility after breaking cloud at two hundred and fifty feet with the runway immediately ahead. By his knowledge of his radio aids and his skill in the operation of these he helped his pilot to save the aircraft from —"
BW: “Damage. Saved the aircraft from damage and the crews from —"
HH: “Injury.”
BW: “Injury.”
HH: That’s a long time ago [laughs]
BW: So that —
HH: 1946.
BW: Yeah. That is a citation that was presumably made into your logbook for skill in flying and avoiding an accident and injury to crew.
HH: Yeah.
BW: That’s very unique.
HH: That’s this one here.
BW: Well done.
HH: In six —
BW: So, 608 Squadron.
HH: Downham Market.
BW: Downham Market.
HH: That’s operations. Yeah.
BW: I’ll just pause again while you look for another document.
[pause]
BW: So —
HH: This is a bit here.
BW: So, for your services you were awarded the DFC. Was that because it was standard for aircrew or —
HH: No. It’s —
BW: For people to be awarded after so many missions or was there an act of gallantry.
HH: There wasn’t anything definite. But all pilots, when they did a tour of operations, all pilots automatically got a DFC. But I did fifty operations and I suppose that’s why I got it.
BW: Because you’d done over fifty ops.
HH: Hmmn?
BW: Because you’d done over fifty ops.
HH: No. The war finished then. No. Yeah, I could have done a lot more. Yeah.
BW: It’s quite something though to have come through so many operations. As you said before particularly because so many aircrew were killed during that time.
HH: It was just less than two months ago on the television they were doing some sort of programme and they said only one aircrew member in forty [pause] only one aircrew member in a hundred was it, survived forty operations. I forget the exact number now. I know that was forty operations and there were very few people.
BW: Yeah.
HH: That had done that.
BW: Yeah. That’s quite something. That’s quite an excellent sort of achievement really.
HH: See these things here. You’ve seen them [pause] This. My navigation logs. That’s, I think, I don’t know which aircraft that is. Put that other light on.
BW: So these are on, let’s have a look.
[pause]
BW: So these navigation logs are also recorded in —
HH: Yes.
BW: Wartime service so did you have to fill out effectively two logs.
HH: Some of them. Some of them are. Not all of them I don’t think. I’m trying to see.
BW: You Ok?
HH: Yeah. Where’s the switch? Oh, it’s up here [pause] The light switch is on there.
BW: So did navigators have to fill out another log as well as their own flying log?
HH: No.
BW: For operations.
HH: No.
BW: Or was this just done as an instructor?
HH: This light doesn’t work now. Oh wait a minute. Maybe it does. No. It’s broken. That’s why it’s off. I think the bulbs gone. Yeah. It’s —
BW: It’s alright.
[pause]
BW: Ok.
HH: You’ve got that all on there.
BW: So these records are all on the disc as well.
HH: Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Ok.
HH: It’ll take a lot of printing out.
BW: It looks like it. Yeah.
HH: And that’s.— [pause]
BW: Ok. I’ll just pause the recording while we look through for the documents.
[recording paused]
What I’ll do I’ll end the recording there. We’ve had a look through some documents and photographs of your time in the Far East. So all that’s left to do is, on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre is just to say thank you very much for your time Mr Harris. It’s very good of you.
HH: You’ll find a lot of things in these.
BW: Thank you.
HH: These CDs. Yeah.
BW: Yeah. We’ll arrange to get your CDs and documents copied by one of the other volunteers. They will send somebody out but they weren’t able to do that today. So we’ll sort that out for you. Thank you.
[recording paused]
BW: Very much so. Yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Harry Harris
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brian Wright
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
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AHarrisHST150909
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:19:59 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Harry ‘Sam’ Harris grew up in Scotland and volunteered for the Air Force. He trained as a navigator in South Africa. On the penultimate day of his training he flew over a multitude of lifeboats bearing the survivors of a torpedoed ship. The next day he flew over a U-Boat above water and the pilot turned the aircraft to attack it. On return to Great Britain he was posted to 576 Squadron at RAF Elsham Wolds. After his first tour he wanted to continue to fly and was posted to a Mosquito Squadron. He discusses being attacked by a Me 262. He notes that of the thirty two men who passed out with him in South Africa only eleven were left after the war and three of those had been prisoners of war. After the war Harry stayed in the RAF and flew in a wide variety of aircraft.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Norway
South Africa
Arctic Ocean--North Pole
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Berlin
Scotland--Montrose
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1942
1944
1945
1946
105 Squadron
576 Squadron
608 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
briefing
C-47
control caravan
crewing up
debriefing
Distinguished Flying Cross
fear
Gee
Halifax
Lancaster
love and romance
Me 262
Meteor
military living conditions
military service conditions
Mosquito
navigator
Nissen hut
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
promotion
RAF Downham Market
RAF Elsham Wolds
searchlight
service vehicle
submarine
superstition
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1158/11717/PThorpJF1601.2.jpg
ff1f3350206f6261bc6dec0c3a9ef84c
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1158/11717/AThorpJF160412.1.mp3
fd9fa4392a3c236f3815a3bff1903dc9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Thorp, John Foster
J F Thorp
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer John Foster Thorp (1924 - 2018, 1623333 Royal Air Force), a list of his operations, a page from a log book and notes on 467 Squadron and Lancaster R5868. He flew completed a tour of operations as a rear gunner with 467 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-12
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Thorp, JF
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BW: This is Brian Wright interviewing Warrant Officer John Foster Thorp of 467 Squadron at his home in Bamford, Rochdale at half past one on Tuesday the 12th April 2016. Also present with us are his eldest son Derek and his wife Betty. Warrant Officer Foster, excuse me, Warrant Officer Thorp if you can just describe for us please your family set up. Where you were born and grew up? How many people in your family? Please.
JT: Yes. I was born in Manchester and I grew up in Manchester. In Higher Blackley mainly. And I was there until I was eighteen years of age at which point I went into the RAF.
BW: Was there only you in the family? Did you have any brothers and sisters?
JT: I have. I had one sister. She’s now deceased. But no brothers. No.
BW: And where did you, whereabouts did you go to school?
JT: I went to the local school first until I was fourteen. Sorry. The local school until I was ten. And then I went to North Manchester Grammar School, Chain Bar, Moston. And I left there in September 1939 when the war broke out and the school was evacuated but my father wouldn’t let me be evacuated.
BW: And so you stayed in —
JT: So I stayed at home. And when I became seventeen years of age I joined the local Home Guard which gave me some insight into military training.
BW: And did your sister remain at home at the same, same time? She wasn’t evacuated either or did, did she leave?
JT: She was in a different school.
BW: I see.
JT: So — yeah.
BW: And what prompted you to join the Home Guard at first? Why? Why them?
JT: Just to be military I suppose and wear a uniform. My father was in the ’14/’18 war, in the army and he told me, ‘Don’t go in the army,’ he said, ‘When you’re eighteen.’ So I, I had visions like most eighteen year olds of flying a Spitfire. So, I went to the RAF station, RAF recruiting office in Manchester and volunteered for pilot training. I was accepted. I eventually had to go to Cardington in Bedfordshire to have the aircrew medical and written examination. And then I was waiting then. I was on deferred service until I became a full age for military service. That’s turning eighteen. And, when was it? September 1942 I was called up to the RAF. And they, they had a general course for pilots, navigators and bomb aimers. They called it the PNB Scheme. And you took a general course in navigation, elementary navigation, meteorology, signalling, Morse code and RAF law. And other odds. Engines. Engines. And I did that initial training at Scarborough, Yorkshire.
BW: How long were you there?
JT: About four months I think it was. And then from there I went up to Scone in Scotland, near Perth, where there was a flying, flying school.
[recording interrupted]
BW: So, just to pick up we were, we were saying that you joined the Home Guard and been selected for pilot training and that you’d then completed your initial training and been posted back to Heaton Park. Coincidentally just a mile away from where your parents actually lived.
JT: Yeah.
BW: And your home was in Manchester. So, you were waiting there for your name to come up on a, on a list to either be sent out to Canada, South Africa or where ever.
JT: Further training. Yes. That’s right. And while I was at Heaton Park we used to have a morning parade and a roll call to make sure nobody had buzzed off home with being so frustrated waiting at the, at the — [pause] And so, one morning at the morning parade the person in charge of us said a course had been started for air gunners. And if anybody would like to volunteer to go on to this course then report to the office. So, like a lot of others, they wanted three hundred volunteers and they got over two hundred for these. You see, the point was that Lancasters, Stirlings, Halifaxes carried two gunners and they needed, so they needed more gunners than that. Than any other trade. And so I went and volunteered for air gunner and I was posted to Andreas in the Isle of Man. And there was one of two, one of three airfield on the Isle of Man. There was Andreas was the gunnery school, Jurby was bomb aimer’s and the Royal Navy had taken over Douglas Airport for their, training their Fleet Air Arm people.
BW: Where? What was the first base called?
JT: Andreas.
BW: Andreas?
JT: Andreas. A N D R E A S.
BW: Ok. And that was specifically for air gunnery was it?
JT: Air gunnery training. Yes. Yes. Used to go up on an, in an Avro Anson which had an upper turret and about six of you would go up with the pilot and then an aircraft would come along towing a drogue and you fired from the turret at this drogue. And then when they dropped the drogue on the airfield when you’d finished the exercise they counted the number of holes. And there was six of us firing at it so they divided it by six and that was your score. So, whether you’d hit it or whether you peppered it, you know.
BW: Yeah.
JT: That was the way they worked it.
BW: Nowadays they use, they use coloured paint on the, on the bullets but they didn’t then.
JT: No. No.
BW: They just — right.
JT: So —
BW: This is interesting because at this time in your life you’ve joined the Home Guard. You volunteered for pilot training. You’d been accepted as a pilot.
JT: Yeah.
BW: As you say in your view you were going to fly Spitfires.
JT: I wanted to.
BW: What, what changed in your mind to go for air gunner? What, why the change from pilot?
JT: Frustration.
BW: Simple as that.
JT: Frustration. Not making progress. And that was what it really was. And the same with a lot of other people. And so I passed out on the basis of the number of shots in the, in the drogue. I passed out as an air gunner. As a, they gave me the rank of sergeant and the wing. I got my AG wing. And I was then posted to Upper Heyford in Oxfordshire which was a base where pilots, navigators, bomb aimers, radio operators and so on came there and they formed into crews. And what happened with the pilot this was the, of course the skipper of the crew and he used to be wondering around with a piece of paper and a pencil and he’d go up to a person and say, ‘Have you got a crew yet?’ ‘No sir.’ ‘Would you like to go in my crew?’ Well, an Australian, an Australian flying officer. Flying officer rank pilot said to me, ‘Would you like to join my crew?’ So, I said, ‘Yes. Yes.’ He seemed a nice fellow and I said, ‘I’ll join your crew.’ So he said, ‘First of all, before you definitely decide,’ he said, ‘I’m on retraining because I had a crash and my bomb aimer was killed. We were flying in a Wellington and one engine cut out’. The Wellington didn’t fly very well on one engine and that’s why he crashed. And so I said to him, ‘Well,’ I said, ‘Everybody is allowed one crash.’ So, I said, ‘I’ll join you.’ And I never regretted it. He was a smashing fellow. He was about, I think he was thirty years of age. Which was getting old in flying ranks you know, really. And he said, ‘Come on then. Now you’ve joined me,’ he said, ‘What’s your name?’ So I said, ‘John.’ ‘Right, Johnny.’ And I was Johnny from then on, ‘And, I’ll introduce you to the, I’ll introduce you to the crew. The other members of the crew,’ he said, ‘I’ve been looking for a rear gunner,’ he said, ‘And that’s the final one I wanted.’ So, I said, ‘Ok.’ And there was Herby Phillips the navigator, Canadian. Eric Clem was the mid-upper gunner. Poor Eric never, he didn’t last the war. He was killed. And then there was [pause] do you want the names if I can remember them? There’s Herby Phillips —
BW: Yeah.
JT: Who was the navigator. Canadian.
BW: Eric Clem was the Aussie.
JT: Pardon?
BW: Eric Clem was an Aussie. Is that right?
JT: Eric Clem was an Aussie. Yes. Eric. Yes.
DT: He was your mate wasn’t he?
JT: Pardon?
DT: Eric was your mate.
JT: Can you throw me that red book? That red book off there please.
DT: Yeah.
JT: I made a list of it the other day and — thank you very much.
BW: Was your pilot called MacLaughlin?
JT: David MacLaughlin was the pilot and when he introduced himself he said, ‘My name is David MacLaughlin,’ he said, ‘While we’re flying you call me skipper. But all other times it’s Mac.’ Showing the lack of rank. Not pulling rank you see. So, anyhow, oh dear. I damaged it [pages turning]
DT: Do you want to carry on talking dad?
JT: Here we are.
DT: And I’ll have a look for you.
JT: There we are, Derek.
DT: You’ve got it.
JT: David MacLaughlin pilot. Aussie. Herbert Phillips — navigator. He was Canadian Air Force. The bomb aimer I could never, I can’t remember his name. He was rather a fellow who didn’t mix very well.
BW: Was it Craven? Does that sound familiar? Craven.
JT: Yeah. It does. George Craven was it? Have you got a list of them somewhere? [laughs] Albert Smith, the radio operator. He was from the northeast of England. Reg Hodgkinson was the engineer. He was, he was from Warrington. Eric Clem was the mid-upper gunner. Australian. And myself then. Rear gunner.
DT: Didn’t you start out with another mid-upper?
JT: Pardon?
DT: You started out with another mid-upper gunner didn’t you but he wasn’t able to — ?
JT: Well, we had one. A Canadian. But he couldn’t, he couldn’t stand altitude flying. He used to pass out if he got up to altitude. So that’s when —
BW: And so you swapped him, did you?
JT: Pardon?
BW: You swapped him, did you?
JT: We swapped him. Yeah. Yeah.
DT: It was, was it his skull? His skull hadn’t closed up properly.
JT: That’s right. Yeah.
DT: And there was a hole in the middle of his skull. And when he went up to altitude he passed out. So he was —
JT: Medical problem.
DT: Medical. Yeah.
BW: Wow.
JT: He was a Canadian.
BW: And George Craven. Was he an Aussie or was he, was he British?
JT: George Craven. He was an Aussie. Yeah. But Eric Clem, I said he didn’t last the war. He, he’d done, he did twenty ops with us. Twenty trips with us. Eric. And then he was taken ill with tonsillitis. Went into the sick bay and when he came out he didn’t re-join our crew. And he joined another crew and went, he went to Stuttgart and didn’t, they didn’t come back. He was my room-mate actually. We shared a room. He was a very special little chap. He was twenty nine years of age which was getting on for aircrew really.
BW: Where did you live with the crew? Were you in a Nissen hut or were you in married quarters on the station?
JT: At Waddington? Waddington. Well, it was, was a peacetime base so they had proper built up accommodation over the sergeant’s mess. There’s accommodation for sergeants and like I say I shared a room with Eric until he was killed.
BW: And at this time, you, you’ve met the crew at Upper Heyford and you then were posted as a crew to 467 Squadron at Waddington.
JT: Well, well at first we were at Upper Heyford. We were flying Wellingtons in training. Crew getting, crew getting used to being a crew. Crew training.
BW: What did you think of Wellingtons?
JT: They were alright. Good solid aircraft. Yes. A bit heavy and all that but we didn’t fly in them operationally. It was purely cross-country flying. Bombing practice and things like that. Just straight general training. And then we went from there to Stirlings to swap on to four-engined mark types. Be on four engines then. And that’s where we picked up a navigator - flight engineer. And then from Stirlings we went on to Lancasters. Just a short session. Conversion on to Lancasters and then from there to Waddington.
BW: And do you recall the Conversion Unit where you flew Lancasters?
JT: Was it Wigsley? Was it Wigsley? I’m not sure. I thought it was Wigsley. We went around a bit. No. That was Stirlings. Not Syerston were it? [pages turning]
BW: But as you say you weren’t flying operations at this time. You were just learning to work together as a crew.
JT: To knit together as a crew. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was still being trained to some extent. Syerston.
BW: I see.
JT: Syerston. That’s where we converted on to Lancasters.
BW: And how long was your course there? How long was your course there? Do you know?
JT: Syerston? Was about a fortnight. Three weeks. It was purely getting used to that type. I mean we’d converted from Wellingtons on to Stirlings for multi-engine. Four engines. And then we’d gone from Stirlings then on to Lancaster conversion because Lancasters were in short supply, you know. Being they were building up the Lancaster force on Bomber Command.
BW: So, so what time, what sort of stage of the war was this? Was this ’41, ’42? Or —
JT: That was in April 1944. That was before D-Day that was of course.
BW: And how did you rate the Stirling aircraft? How did you find them?
JT: It was fairly solid but it was a bit cumbersome. Lumbered along you know. And the thing that struck me really was I was, I was airborne before everybody else because it was quite a long fuselage. They put the tail up to keep the nose down while, while they’re going down the runway and I’m up in the air and everybody else is down on the ground.
BW: And so when you moved then to Waddington to join 467 and start on Lancasters what was your, your impression then? What was the feeling between you and the crew about getting on to Lancasters? Was it like moving from a biplane to a Spitfire? Or was it —
JT: No. From my point of view it was always the same because it was just a turret. Flying in a turret, you see. More and more different for the pilot really and the engineer and that. But from my point of view I just sat in the turret there.
BW: Did the aircraft itself feel different? Lancasters are notoriously cramped.
JT: Yes. It was a comfortable aircraft to fly in. Yes.
BW: You found it comfortable.
JT: Yeah. Found it comfortable. Yes.
BW: And you joined in April ’44. I suppose a similar time of year to what we’re in now but this is in the run up to D-Day which we know now.
JT: Yeah.
BW: Did you sense anything about the coming invasion? Invasion.
JT: No. Not really. What happened, there was a tannoy, you know. The tannoy loudspeaker system around the airfield and there was a tannoy message went out, ‘Will all crews of 467 Squadron report to the briefing room.’ That was one afternoon. And the commanding officer of the squadron told us that, they didn’t say it was D-Day of course because it was still secret then so much but he said, ‘You may be called for an early morning flight. Operation. So, get in to, get, get to bed early tonight and make sure you fully sleep.’ Slept like you see. And about 3 o’clock in the morning there was a hammering on the door and [unclear] much shouting on the corridor. People were being sent to waken all the crews up. And Eric and I got up, got dressed went down to the mess. Had a meal. The usual meal of bacon and egg and all that kind of thing. And, and then from there out to briefing and then we went out to the aircraft. And the thing we noticed as we were going out to the aircraft was they’d painted black and white stripes underneath the wings for recognition purposes. And we, we took off on D-Day morning about, I think it was about 3 or, about 3 o’clock in the morning or something like that. June the 6th [pause pages turning] D-Day. Excuse me. A bit slow.
BW: That’s alright.
DT: You’d done a few ops before then hadn’t you dad?
JT: Pardon?
DT: You’d done a few ops before then hadn’t you?
JT: What? Before D-Day?
DT: D-Day wasn’t your first.
JT: Oh, we’d only done a few before D-Day. Yeah. 2.40. Take off 2.40. St Pierre du Mont in France. That was 2.40 in the morning. And D-Day was quite a thing with us because we went, we went out at like I say 3 o’clock in the morning and as we were flying over, coming back, flying over the Channel — over the Channel there was a vast armada of ships going out. They were going to the landings. And I was going to say about them [pause] anyhow [pause] we flew back, we flew back to our base and they told us then that the D-Day landings, the landings had taken place. And, and again in the afternoon he said you’d be wanted again this evening for a flight. And that was midnight. Now, this was an interesting day. At midnight on D-day. And we took off and of course the Germans always anticipated that the invasion would take place from Dover to Calais. The shortest distance. And they’d stationed a lot of armour and troops south of Calais ready to repel the invasion but it came — it never came. And, so, we, we were detailed on that night of D-Day to bomb some railway, railway tracks. To stop this armour and these troops being transferred from south of Calais, taken over to, to Normandy to, to attack the British forces you see. Anyhow, as we rolled out about, just about midnight almost. Queued up to go on to the runway and then eventually our turn came. We went on the runway. We started, charged up the runway. We were about three quarters of the way along and heard a very loud bang like an explosion. Mac, Mac, in his Aussie twang said, ‘What the bloody hell was that?’ [laughs] And of course nobody knew. Anyway, he pulled it off the ground. We were about three quarters of the way down the runway so we couldn’t, couldn’t stop. We were too far. So, he pulled it off the ground and we carried on and after a few minutes he said there was no, whatever it was it hadn’t affected our controls. So, and the flight engineer said the engine readings are normal. So, Mac said, ‘Ok. We’ll carry on.’ And we carried on, we bombed and we started back and as we crossed the south coast Mac radioed to base and told them we’d got this. Oh no, sorry, before we got to there, as we got to the Channel Mac said, ‘We’d better check the undercarriage,’ and as the wheel went down a big black object flew past my turret. And the engineer looked out. He said, ‘We’ve lost our starboard tyre.’ That big bang was a tyre bursting as we were taking off. So Skip, Mac radioed base at Waddington and told them that we were having this problem. And another thing was as we were heading down towards, towards Waddington we got a constant speed unit in the propeller, in the propeller was, went faulty and we had to shut an engine down. So we were on three engines then. Anyhow, that was on the way to Woodbridge in Suffolk where there was an emergency landing place with a big runway and such. They were kitted out with ambulances and fire engines and all sorts there ready for emergency landings. And so I thought well how was Mac going to get this down, you know, with only one wheel? Anyhow, he went in. He kept this wing up with the dovetail, with the bad wheel and he landed on one wheel and the tail wheel and rolled down the runway and gradually, as we lost speed this wing dropped and the hub that was left after the tyre had gone, the hub hit the ground and we spun around and off the field. Off the strip on to the grass at the side. So, it was a marvellous bit of flying really. To fly a big aircraft like that on one wheel. Yes. So that was D-Day night.
BW: And so you didn’t, you didn’t get out to the target in France? You had to divert before you got there. Is that right? Or did you —
JT: Yeah. No. No. We got to the target. We bombed.
BW: You got to the target. Bombed the target.
JT: And on the way back but we didn’t, we didn’t know what the problem was then. It was only when we started on the way back and we started thinking about what was it? This noise and all that. And Mac put the wheels down and the engineer told us that we’d lost our starboard tyre. So, that was when we first knew about it.
BW: And did you get to find out how successful your attack on the target had been after all that?
JT: Sorry?
BW: Did the, did you get to find out how successful your attack on the target had been after all that?
JT: No. We never did. No. You’d usually get an aiming point photo. They had this, the camera and it was geared up with the bomb, bomb release and it switched, switched on when the, when your bombs had landed. And it should show your bombs. The effect of your bombs. A little camera.
BW: And this aircraft you were flying in at the time, I believe it was S Sugar. Is that right?
JT: Pardon?
BW: I believe the aircraft you were flying in at the time was S Sugar. Is that right?
JT: No. We flew in S for Sugar on our first operational flight.
BW: Just your first one.
JT: First one. June. 28th of May I think it was.
BW: Yeah.
JT: It was S for Sugar.
BT: Handy that log book, isn’t it?
JT: Hmmn?
BT: Handy that log book.
JT: Yes.
BT: Are you looking for something?
JT: July. May. June. What were we talking about? It’s got a W. It wasn’t W. That’s [pause]
BW: Yeah. So that, that’s your first, your first trip.
JT: Well, that was a special exercise, that was a —
BW: But then after that the aircraft you were in on D-Day wasn’t S Sugar then was it? It was, it was another one.
JT: Not D-Day. No.
BW: But that first one you flew in went on to be a well-known Lancaster didn’t it?
JT: It is. It’s, I’ll tell you something about that a bit more [pause] Oh yeah. There. 28th of the May. S for Sugar. 28th of May that.
BW: That’s it. Yeah. Bombing Cherbourg.
JT: Cherbourg. That’s it. So, actually it wasn’t our first. Yes. It was, it would be our first op that. First op because that was a special exercise. That was a special exercise when we flew in it. It was something to do with the radar check on something. And that’s our first trip. That was S for Sugar. Divert a little.
BW: And these are photos that you’ve got of the aircraft in the RAF Museum at Hendon. Is that right?
JT: These. No. No. No, these are Derek’s.
DT: My daughter.
JT: Two grandsons.
DT: My daughter and her husband and my grandsons went down to Hendon.
BW: I see.
DT: A few —
JT: Went down there and —
DT: Well, a few months ago and they took a load of photographs because of my dad’s association with it. They made a little booklet up for him and —
BW: Right.
JT: They allowed them, they allowed them in the prohibited area didn’t they?
DT: Yeah. They did. Yeah.
BW: Yeah. Well, that’s good of them.
JT: There they are.
BW: Yeah. That’s them in front of your turret.
JT: Yeah.
BW: And have you been to the same aircraft in Hendon? Have you seen it yourself?
JT: Well, I’ve been there a couple of times. Yes, and introduced myself. And they sent a young lad, a young chap with us who was on the section and he said he could he could take you to the aircraft. He took us down there and he undid the door and let us climb in. He said, ‘I can’t,’ he said, ‘I don’t know a lot about it,’ he said, ‘Because I’ve only just come on this section. So, I can’t tell you a lot about the Lancaster.’ I said, ‘Well I’ll tell you shall I?’ [laughs]
DT: Is that when you said it didn’t smell the same?
JT: Pardon?
DT: It didn’t smell the same.
JT: No. No. That was one thing that struck me was the smell. And then I realised a long time afterwards that there was no fuel in it, you see. It was an exhibition piece. There was no fuel in it for precautions. Safety precautions. So the aircraft didn’t smell the same [laughs]
BW: And when you were going on ops it presumably had a heavy smell of fuel in it.
JT: Oh yes. Yeah. Well, it always did when you were going on ops or not, you know. You could always smell the aircraft. Yeah.
BW: And when you were preparing for these early trips what sort of things did you have to do? What, what were you doing yourself to prepare for the, for the operations?
JT: Well, of course you had, you had your meal first and you were waited on by WAAFs. They volunteered to wait on us. A courtesy measure, you know for the lads that were going on ops. And anyhow then you went to, along to the, one of the hangars and they got to give you your flying rations. Which were boiled, a packet of boiled sweets, packets of chewing gum and [pause] what else was there? Boiled sweets, chewing gum, oh a block of chocolate. And depending on how, how long the flight was going to be depended on when you got two bags of chocolate [laughs] And then you went and picked up your parachute. You’d already picked up your flying gear from your locker and you picked up your parachute from the parachute store. And then you’d go out to the crew bus and they’d take you out to the aircraft. And that was the only preparation we did really. Picking up stuff we needed. Yeah.
BW: Did you attend the briefing with the rest of the crew?
JT: Oh yes. Yes. Oh yes. They had a long table. A long, you know, a collapsible table and benches, seat, chairs. And each crew used to gather around a table and the navigator usually had a map in front of him and he was already working on a flight plan. Yeah.
BW: And when you see it in films, where they unveil a map on a wall, was that the same kind of thing or different?
JT: Yes. Yes. Sometimes. I mean, once everybody was in they shut the door, the blinds were down and everything and then there was a map on the wall with a tape, a red tape going from your base down to where ever the target was. And the squadron commander would give, first give a chat about what the target was for and why it was picked for a target. What was being done there. Aircraft production or bombs or whatever. And then of course the Met officer. The meteorological officer would then give the weather report for the flight. What it was expected to be like over the target. Clear or not and, and what it would be like when you came back. And diversions. Possibly diversions if, if your airfield was fogged out. Of course Lincolnshire. You got quite a bit of mist in Lincolnshire. And you had to perhaps plan to be away from home when you come back.
BW: Most of your targets at this time are over France in preparation for D-Day. Did you get to fly over Germany at all?
JT: Oh yes. Yes. I’ve never logged precisely how many of each. Each way. But —
BW: Was there a difference in the operation between targets in France and Germany? Did you, did you feel one was more dangerous than the other? Or one was easier than the other?
JT: Well, Germany was obviously — particularly in what they called the Ruhr Valley. That, that was a bad place to go. And I can’t think what we used to call it now but I mean we were at Cherbourg, France which is only just on the coast you see. It isn’t so bad. We did one flight to Königsberg on the Baltic and the actual time was ten hours or something like that. So, it was a long flight. Down Stuttgart. That was where Eric was killed. But this wasn’t, he wasn’t on this flight. That was a eight hour. Eight hours. You notice, you notice the writing changes because Mac, the pilot’s, captain, the crew captain used to collect all the logbooks for his crew and he used to mess about with the logbook, you see. And Mac said to me, ‘You’re not putting enough information on. I’ll keep your logbook for you in the future.’ And that’s why. Why the writing changes.
BW: I see. So —
JT: I just used to put Ops — [unclear] Ops — St Pierre du Mont and then, but Mac put all sorts of, these sort of things down,
BW: What has he put on that one?
JT: Which one?
BW: What has he put on this one?
JT: “Ops Rennes. Landed at Skellingthorpe. Diversion was unsuitable.” Skellingthorpe was next door to our base. Next door to Waddington. There was Skellingthorpe, Bardney and Waddington were in a little group. That says, “Landed at Skellingthorpe.” It must have been fog. So, we were diverted there. I think we did about a third were German and the remainder were France because it would be about D-Day. Around about D-Day of course when we were very much involved in things. Königsberg, East Prussia. Ten hour fifty.
BW: And on such long trips like that how did you keep yourself occupied?
JT: Keeping my eyes open [laughs]. That was important. Yeah. Keep a look out you know. At night time of course. I remember one instance we were on a daylight operation actually. We were flying along and we were coming back and another aircraft just in front of us like that and I saw a Junkers 88. A fighter, German fighter, the 188 which had radar on the nose. And we were flying along and I saw this 188 so I told the skipper like, I said, ‘Junkers 88 starboard quarter. Starboard quarter level.’ So far, such a range. I forgot what it was now and so he said, ‘Keep your eye on it.’ Anyhow, the mid-upper gunner said, ‘I think he’s creeping up on this other Lancaster. And they don’t seem aware that he’s there. He’s coming up on them.’ I said, ‘Shall I fire a burst at him?’ So, the bomb aimer was a bit, you know. The bomb aimer said, George, he said, ‘No. No,’ he said, ‘Don’t you fire at him,’ he said, ‘He may come and turn on to us.’ I said, ‘Well we can’t sit here and watch. And watch him shoot that fellow down can we?’ I said, ‘Let’s give him a warning shot.’ And that’s what I did. Skipper said, ‘Yes. Go ahead.’ So, I gave a warning shot at this Junkers 88. And then the rear gunner of this other aircraft then opened up. And our mid-upper opened and he just dived away. The 88. And so then it was where had he gone to? Had he come around or was he coming around the other side. Where was he? Was he going to be a bit spiteful at us depriving him of his target? But we got away with it.
BW: And the other aircraft remained unscathed as well.
JT: Oh yes. Yeah. Yes.
BW: And when you fired that burst what, what sort of guns are you firing? Are they the 303s or did they change to the .5s at this time?
JT: The 303 Brownings. Four. Four 303 Brownings. And they were [pause] Yeah.
BW: How did you rate them? Did you find them effective weapons?
JT: Yes. Yes. I mean when I fired at this 88 I could see my bullets striking his [pause] they had the port. The port engines. They call it covers. Striking the cowlings on the, on the starboard. On the port engine. But how effective it was I don’t know. It didn’t shoot him down.
BW: But it winged him.
JT: Yes. It frightened him off perhaps.
BW: And was that the only time that you fired your guns at a target?
JT: No.
BW: Or did you get opportunity to use them on other occasions?
JT: Well, had one or two pops off at different ones. But we weren’t, we weren’t really, I wouldn’t say attacked. We were never attacked by a fighter. I got the impression if you fired at them and showed them that you were awake they went off. They weren’t interested. Yeah.
BW: So, just coming back to the start of a mission. When you get in to the aircraft to get into your turret what sort of actions are you going through then? What do you do to settle yourself into the turret?
JT: Well, just get in. Check the gunsight is lit up and of course plug into your intercom so that you’re in communication with the skipper and others. Couple up to the oxygen system. And you’re sitting on, in the latter part you were sitting on a parachute as a cushion of course.
BW: A seat pack.
JT: Yeah. A pilot, a pilot’s type pack they called it. Meaning the other one is the observer pack they called it. That was the one with the chest. Chest pack.
BW: But when you were carrying your ‘chute you had the seat pack. You, you sat on your chute. You didn’t stow it.
JT: Sat on it. Yes. Sat on the parachute. That was an advantage being in the rear turret really because if you had to bale out you turned the turret on the beam so that you were facing that way as you were going along this way say. Open the doors behind you, uncouple your, your plugs and pick your knees up and roll out backwards. And you sit on your parachute. So it was an easy place to get out of. Safest place. Safer than the mid-upper. I wouldn’t have liked sitting on the mid-upper turret.
BW: Did you ever, you never swapped positions?
JT: No. No.
BW: Or flew in that position at all.
JT: I didn’t want to.
BW: You stayed purely rear turret.
JT: No. As a mid-upper he’d got to come down out of from his turret. Down the roof of the bomb bay. Down on to the back. Back end. And then turn to the door, open the door. And if the aeroplane was going like that that, you know it was a bit of a job.
BW: But you never had to bale out.
JT: Oh no. No. I got it planned in my mind. I knew just what I would do.
BW: And what did you, what was your plan if you had to bale out?
JT: To bale out? Well like I say —
BW: You would turn the turret around and bale out but did you, did your plan extend to what you would do on the ground once you were down there?
JT: No. Well, some of the lectures you had were on escape procedures and all that kind of thing. To try and get what they called a home run. You’ve been aware of all this haven’t you? What’s your connection with the RAF?
BW: Me personally? I, I had a couple of years in pilot training in the mid-80s but it was, well for me personally, I was nineteen, twenty years old and, you know flying a jet at that age was ultimately not something I was cut out for so, you know, I left. But in the same manner that that you were briefed on escape and evasion procedures we had as well. And we had exercises in the country about things, you know. You were briefed on what you could expect. And of course flying over enemy territory you had escape kit as well, didn’t you? You had things like silk handkerchiefs with maps on them.
JT: Oh yeah. Yes.
BW: Compass in buttons and things like that.
JT: That’s right. A compass. Two buttons. Two buttons. You’d cut them off and one had a little pin in it like that in the middle and a dimple in the top one and that was, made a little compass in those. Yes.
BW: Thankfully you never had to use them.
JT: No.
BW: You had a good pilot who got you back every time.
JT: Oh yes. Got me back. Oh yes. He was a good pilot.
BW: You said you got on pretty well as a crew altogether.
JT: Hmmn?
BW: You said you got on pretty well as a crew altogether.
JT: Oh yeah. Yes. We got on.
BW: But did you socialise together after the operations?
JT: Not really. No. No. Didn’t [pause] That’s one thing I regretted really. That we didn’t have a sort of a get together after. When we’d finished. Mac was awarded a DFC and when he was going he came to me one day he said, ‘I’m going down to London,’ he said, ‘And he didn’t say about his DFC but I found out afterwards.’ He said, ‘I’m going down to London,’ he said, ‘And they’re flying me down there,’ he said, ‘I believe you’re going to — ’ what is it called? Near Market Harborough. He said, ‘I believe you’re going to,’ so and so, ‘Can we drop you off there?’ So, I said, ‘Oh yes. If you don’t mind.’ So, I got my two kit bags and my other pack and all that and he said, he said, ‘I’m in a hurry,’ he said, ‘So, as quickly as you can.’ And I never got time to say anything to the other lads before I went. And I thought afterwards, you know, it was a bit rotten after flying together all that time.
BW: And so that sounds as though it was the end of your tour when that happened. Is that right?
JT: End of the —
BW: Was it the end of your tour when that happened?
JT: Oh yes. Yes. See they stipulated that you were required to do thirty five ops. The squadron’s commander decided how many trips you had to do to complete what they called a tour of operations. And different squadrons had different numbers. Some had thirty. Some had thirty five and ours was thirty five. Mac, when the crew first arrived on the squadron from training the pilots of course had no operational experience so, they used to send them on a trip or two trips if possible with an experienced crew. And to get, see what, what the Pathfinders approach to things, you know. Over the target and that. And the, I was going to say [pause] anyhow I never got the chance to say goodbye to anybody or exchange addresses or anything. So completely lost touch with them. That was it.
DT: That’s why you did thirty three ops wasn’t it?
JT: Pardon?
DT: That’s why you did thirty three operations and not thirty five.
JT: Oh well, we did thirty three.
DT: Because Mac had done two.
JT: Out of thirty five. Well, Mac did two of these experience trips so we needed thirty five. They said that’s it. So we only did thirty three.
BW: And you, you didn’t go on to serve with another crew. You stopped at that point and finished altogether.
JT: That was it, yeah. Yeah.
BW: And in your log there are some targets that you attacked at the end of June which were V-1 sites. Do you recall what was briefed about those at all? Were they static sites or just storage areas or —
JT: Well, there was Peenemunde of course which was attacked. That was where the Germans were concentrating their rocket activities. But no it was at a targets, you know. You were given a target and that was it. You go and do the job. It’s rather strange you know because our last trip was, was to Mönchengladbach in Germany. And we bombed there one night. That last one and that was it. And 1956 I think it was, our swim, we belonged to a swimming club, the boys and Betty and myself belonged to a swimming club in Manchester. And one of the boys had been in the army at Mönchengladbach and he had formed a friendship with youngsters in the swimming club there [unclear] himself. And he formed this friendship and then the club, their club decided to come over to England and have a joint swimming competition with our club. And it was from Mönchengladbach. And they asked us to, would our members accommodate some youngsters? So we said we’d have two boys. Having three sons of our own. And Heinz and Hans Peter. Hans Peter has died since but Heinz and his wife Sabina, we’re still in touch with them. We’ve been over a few times. They’ve been over here. And I’m walking around Mönchengladbach and think well I bombed this place a few years ago, you know.
DT: Didn’t they take you to a hill dad?
JT: Pardon?
DT: They took you to a hill that was built out of rubble.
JT: Oh yes. Yes. At the back of Sabina and Heinz house there’s this mound. Big mound grassed over and a path leading up so you go up and seats and a garden on the top. A memorial garden. And Sabina said to me one time, she said, her English was very good. She said, ‘Do you know what this is, John?’ I said, ‘What? No.’ So she said, ‘This is rubble from when they were bombed during the war.’ So, I said, ‘Oh dear,’ you know. I didn’t tell her we’d made it, we helped to contribute to it because they were a smashing couple. Yeah.
BW: Did you ever get to see any of the V-1s that you were attacking the ground —
JT: No.
BW: Targets for.
JT: No.
BW: It was just another —
JT: Another target.
BW: Another target.
JT: Yeah.
BW: There were a couple of times where you flew in support of allied troops. One was over Caen and the other was over Königsberg. Did you get to see any of the troops on the ground or were you too high for that?
JT: Oh, too, we would be too high. Yes. Yes.
BW: Your CO, I believe was a Wing Commander Brill.
JT: Brill. Yes. Yes.
BW: What do you recall of him? He was Australian, wasn’t he?
JT: Australian. Yes. Wing Commander Brill. Yes. Deegdon was the flight commander. A fellow called Deegdon.
BW: Deedon?
JT: Flight commander.
BW: And which flight were you in on your squadron?
JT: I can’t remember.
BW: Ok.
JT: No. I can’t remember. He was Australian. Deegdon. I’m not sure whether Brill was killed later in a flying accident. I seem to remember.
BW: Your last trip in your log is to, is it Rheydt. R H E Y D T is that?
JT: Rheydt. Rheydt. Yeah.
BW: Rheydt.
JT: Yeah.
BW: And there was a notable incident on the, on that that raid. Do you recall what it was?
JT: To Rheydt. That was Mönchengladbach. Rheydt. Mönchengladbach.
BW: And who was the master bomber?
JT: Oh yes. Gibson. Guy Gibson. He was killed on that raid. Yeah.
BW: Was there any information given to you about what had happened to him?
JT: No. No. No. I don’t recall. Guy Gibson. Yeah. Wait a minute, yes. Just a minute. I saw, I could tell you something on that. As we were coming back over Holland, we were coming back over Holland and I saw, looking down I saw this twin-engined aircraft on fire. Flying on fire. And it was obviously under control because I thought it was trying to force land. And I saw it hit the ground and burst into flames. And when we got back to base they told us Guy Gibson hadn’t reported back. And I never connected the two facts of seeing this twin-engined, this twin-engined aircraft on fire. I never connected that with him at that time and it was a long time after that that it really hit home that it, there was a possibility.
BW: Because he was in a Mosquito.
JT: A Mosquito. That’s right. Yeah.
BW: And killed over Holland.
JT: Yeah.
BW: It was said that he was heard giving the crews on that raid a pat on the back before turning for home. Was that something that you recall and was it something that was broadcast to crews? Were you able to hear something like that or, or not?
JT: Well, we would have heard. We would perhaps would have heard it over the intercom but I don’t recall anything of that. No.
BW: Were messages broadcast between aircraft that you could hear on the intercom as well or was that only between the wireless operators on each aircraft? Could you? Could you hear exchanges on any raids with other aircraft?
JT: No. I don’t think there was never much communication between aircraft. The master bomber used to, used to communicate with the crews and you know, call in. You were in a flight. You were a wave. You know, you were wave one, two or three. You were told that when you were being briefed. You would be on such a wave. And timings were based on that and [pause] but the master bomber would, if the target, if the aiming of the target, you know, they dropped a marker to, as an aiming point. If it wasn’t accurate they’d say add two or three seconds or something like that to, for overshoot. If the targets, if the flare drops there and the target’s there and you’re coming this way he’d say three. Add three. And you’ve got your bombsight goes through, through the marker and then you’ve got the one, two, three - bang. Drop yours.
BW: Yeah. So, if the marker has fallen short of the target.
JT: Short of the target.
BW: And you’re heading in the direction of the marker you then add three seconds in order to hit the target.
JT: That’s right. To do that.
BW: And when the master bomber was giving you those kind of instructions could you as crew members hear that on the intercom?
JT: Oh yes. We’d hear that. Yes.
BW: And were there occasions when you recognised master bombers perhaps? Like Gibson. Had you heard him before?
JT: Not really. You knew who the master bomber was. And Willie Tait was another one. Willie Tait. Guy Gibson. One or two. One or two were a bit unpopular because they made a cock up of it sometimes. Some of these master bombers.
BW: And did you get to meet Gibson or —
JT: I saw him once. When I was at the Isle of Man. When I was in training. And there was a squadron was walking along, marching along to a lecture and the chappy who was in charge of us said, ‘Oh, here comes the CO.’ And they were coming, a group of about four or five people. Officers. And of course eyes right, you know. That kind of thing. And one of them was Guy Gibson. Yeah. And it was after the dams raid so he was known, you know, and that. And that was at, that was at Andreas. Want to see if it is in the logbook? I’ve got his logbook here. A copy.
BW: How did you come by that?
JT: I forget now. Somebody gave it me.
BW: And what was, this was after the dams but what was his reputation?
JT: I couldn’t really say. Supposed to be umpty, a bit huffy sometimes, you know. This is when I was at Andreas. It would be somewhere about [pause pages turning] Trying to pinpoint when Gibson was [pause] he had a friend on the camp. Some other officer. And he’d come to visit him and he’d flown in to —
BW: I see.
JT: Andreas. To see his friend. That would be August ’43.
BW: Right.
JT: It was round about that time but if it’s in his logbook I don’t know.
BW: Yeah. The log here that you’ve got a copy of says September 16th 1944. This is a copy of Gibson’s own logbook. It says his last recorded trip was in a Lightning. Which would be a P38.
JT: Yeah.
BW: From Langford Lodge. So, prior to that he’d been flying Oxfords but interspersed with Lightnings and Mosquitoes. So —
JT: It doesn’t say his destination does it?
BW: Langford Lodge. To and from Langford Lodge. That’s all. But —
JT: No. I mean I wouldn’t have —
BW: It seems he’s not been long on that op. On those, on that tour. But when you were out over the targets of these places particularly over, over Germany what was, what was the area like? I mean, were you able to see much or was there frequently heavy cloud or were you able to see a lot out of the —
JT: Well, you could see a lot. You could see the, you could see the fires and things like that. And we were too high to see, see much you know. You couldn’t see people or anything like that.
[pause]
BW: You’d done, in total thirty three ops in just over four months which was pretty consistent flying really. Did you want to continue and carry on and do another tour?
JT: Well, I did. I went from operational flying on to instructing at OTU. Operational Training Unit. And then one of the pilots [pause] I’m trying to think which one it was [pause] One of the pilot instructors said to me one day, ‘I’m getting a crew together to go back on ops. Do you want to come with me?’ So, I said, ‘Yeah, I’ll come with you.’ So, and, well that must have been before, before June. June ’46 was it? ’45. Anyhow, he said, I said, ‘Alright, I’ll come with you.’ So, we went into the training and while we were in training we went to, we went to 100 Squadron for training and [pause] just casting my mind back and it developed then that the war was over. So, there was no point in us completing. And then he decided to cut down squadron strength and of course we were all old stages more or less — due for early de-mob. We were the first lots to be de-mobbed. So, so they made us redundant. Our crew. And, and then I was told I was going to 9 Squadron. At Waddington strangely enough. Back to Waddington. Of course, 9 Squadron was an old First World War squadron. Number 9. Oh and a chappy, Pete Langdon, he was the, he was the deputy commander of the squadron. And that’s when we went out to India. I went and reported to the 9 Squadron adjutant when I arrived. I was posted as a single, as an individual rather than with a crew. And I went in to the adjutant and he said, ‘Hello John, how are you?’ and he was, he’d been one of the instructors with me instructing. And so he said, ‘Did you come to join us?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘We’re going out to Hong Kong.’ So, I said, ‘Oh, I’ll come with you. I’ll join you on that.’ And anyhow, we finished up at Salbani in India. Which was a different place altogether.
BW: And what was it like out there?
JT: Pardon?
BW: What was it like out there?
JT: What? Salbani. Well, just, just out in the wilds. Out in the wilds really. There was, there was the airfield. The airfield, the railway station and that was about all.
BW: Did you get much time off? Off duty? Were you able to go off base into the nearby town?
JT: No. No. Didn’t go off. The nearest place was Calcutta. I went there twice. I went on the train and went twice. I got nose bleed and, I broke my nose when I was a kid you see and it used to bleed sometimes. They said it was the heat causing the rise in blood pressure. I went sick and they sent me to Calcutta to see the ear, nose and throat specialist. I went twice.
BW: How long were you out in India for?
JT: About four months. Yeah. Be four month. Yeah. January to April. January the 2nd we took off. Should have gone on the 1st but the weather wasn’t suitable. Flew to [pause] North Africa and then along over the desert to Karachi. Sorry. To Egypt. Egypt. Egypt to [pause] oh my mind’s going. From Egypt to —
BW: Would you fly to —
JT: Karachi. North Africa.
DT: You went to Italy first didn’t you?
JT: Pardon?
DT: Didn’t you go to Italy first?
JT: I went to Italy. I went to Italy on, that was Operation Dodge.
DT: Oh yeah. Yeah.
JT: Dodge they called it. The flying troops back. Flying the 8th Army chaps back. In fact, there’s a picture of them in. This aircraft was included in it.
BT: Are you warm enough love?
BW: I’m fine thank you, yes.
BT: Are you warm enough David?
DT: I’m fine, love. Yeah. No problem.
BW: Yeah. So they did. They did. Yeah, they did repatriate soldiers and POWs in Lancasters. Yeah. Operation Exodus.
JT: This wasn’t prisoners. This was the 8th Army.
BW: 8th Army. So, that’s an original photo of S Sugar with, as you say troops from the 8th Army about to board. And what were you? Were you still flying Lancasters out in India or were you flying something different?
JT: Oh yes. Lancasters. Yeah. Yeah. Glad. Yeah.
BW: And when you, when you returned back to the UK what, what happened then?
JT: Well, I got married. Didn’t we? [laughs] Yeah. 1946.
BW: And where had you both met?
JT: Hmmn?
BW: Where had you both met? Where did you meet each other?
JT: Oh, we grew up together. Lived in the same road, didn’t we?
BT: Lived on the same road.
JT: Yeah.
BW: So, you’d known each other for years before you joined up.
JT: Oh yeah.
DT: You lived at, what was it mum? You lived number 65.
BT: What?
DT: You lived at number 65 and dad lived at 57.
BT: 57.
JT: That’s right.
BT: So he knew all about me.
DT: And didn’t mess about.
BW: So he knew what he was getting in to.
BT: What love?
BW: He knew what he was letting himself in for.
BT: Oh, he knew what he was taking on. Yeah.
DT: There was no messing about because that was my mum’s dad.
BT: That was my dad. A policeman.
JT: A copper.
BW: I see.
DT: That was, that’s my grandad.
JT: She’s like her father.
BW: Yeah.
DT: He was a big man.
BT: Yeah.
JT: Thirty years. Thirty years in the police.
BT: Lovely fellow wasn’t he John? Really nice.
JT: Oh yeah.
BW: He looks like he, he’d had service too. Did he serve in the Second War or was he in the First?
JT: No. Well he’d got the defence —
BT: A policeman.
JT: He’d got, the policeman and ambulanceman and fireman all got the defence medal didn’t they?
BW: Alright. Thank you.
BT: He used to take the kids at that time you used to take the kids across, you know from, from the school to the other side of the road and they all used to run just so to take hold of his hand.
DT: He was huge. He was about — how tall was he? Six foot something.
BT: Six foot seven.
BW: Wow.
BT: Something like that.
DT: He was the police, the police tug of war team. He was the anchorman.
BW: I should hope so.
BT: Got some lovely presents. Some lovely prizes. Cups and things, you know.
BW: So, when you returned from India you got married and then you were demobbed.
JT: I was demobbed in, soon enough. I enrolled at St John’s Wood. Lord’s Cricket Ground, St John’s Wood. I was de-mobbed at Wembley Stadium.
DT: Didn’t you go on Lincolns dad?
JT: Pardon?
DT: Didn’t you go on to Lincolns?
JT: Ah yes. We went on to Lincolns for a short while. Yes.
BW: And where were you flying those from?
JT: Lincolns? [pause] Binbrook was it? Or Lindholme? Lindholme. Number 9 Squadron attached to Lindholme for —
BW: So, you wouldn’t have been months then doing that. Once you came back from India you wouldn’t be many months with 9 Squadron would you?
JT: Yes. I were with 9 Squadron until the end of the war. Until I was demobbed rather. When we were on Lincolns. I were demobbed from the 9 Squadron.
BW: I see.
JT: At Binbrook. Binbrook. When we came back from India.
BW: Once you left the RAF what did you go on to do then?
JT: I went, I worked for the CWS before. In Manchester. The Coop headquarters in Manchester. I worked for them before I went in the RAF and when I came out of course they had to give me my job back. And I went, I was in the sales accounts department.
BW: For the Co-op.
JT: For the Co-op. Yes. In their head office there and the chappy who was made the boss. The boss retired, the manager of the department. He’d stayed on extra years during the war and of course when peace came he, he opted for his retirement. And the chap who took over as boss, he’d married one of the CWS director’s daughters. So, of course he was a squadron leader in the RAF and when he came back he, they gave him, the boss gave him the bosses job when the boss retired. They gave him his job. And he said to me one day, I mean he had a bit of a soft spot for being ex-RAF as well. He said to me, he said, ‘There’s a vacancy in the taxation department,’ he said, ‘Are you interested?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘It will pay better than this department.’ So, I said, ‘Oh yeah. Certainly.’ So I got the job in taxation. Company tax work. And very interesting it was. Cut and thrust with the Inland Revenue you know and sending, we used to do audits for various Co-op societies and I used to do the tax work then. So, what they had to pay in tax from the profits or how money we got back from them for the losses and such. You know. And I finished up as managing the department at one time. And then they merged. They merged with the auditors and you’ve heard of KPMG have you?
BW: Accountants.
JT: On London Road. And they merged with them so I was just about due for retiring then so I got out. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the work. Interesting.
BW: I can think of a few people who’d be, who’d be asking for your skills. I can think of a few people who would be asking for your skills these days.
JT: Oh yeah.
BW: Somebody who lives at number 10 I think.
DT: Yours was company tax wasn’t it? You were company tax. Not personal tax.
BW: Yeah.
JT: Company tax. Not individuals. It was company tax. Yes.
DT: But you used to fill my tax forms in and you’d say, ‘Cross that out. Cross that out. Sign. Tick that, tick that, tick that. Sign that,’ he said, ‘That’ll be thirty guineas.’
[pause]
DT: You managed to fly Lancasters as well didn’t you dad?
JT: Pardon?
DT: You managed to fly Lancasters.
JT: Oh, I did fly a Lancaster once. Yeah.
DT: Yeah.
BW: How did you manage that?
JT: Well, we had a pilot who decided that it would be a good idea if different crew members interchanged. So, he said, ‘Here John,’ he said, ‘Fly this.’ I said, ‘Oh aye. Go on.’ I got in the pilot’s seat. Flew it. But just straight and level stuff, more or less, you know.
DT: He wanted to make sure you got home.
JT: Hmmn?
DT: He wanted to make sure he got home in case, if he was hurt.
JT: Well, no this was after.
DT: That was after was it?
JT: After all. Yeah.
DT: Oh, I thought it was —
JT: No. Mac didn’t. No. Mac was, Mac was the pilot.
DT: Yeah.
JT: He was in charge.
DT: Oh right.
BW: Was he pretty strict about that sort of thing?
JT: Yeah. He were a good pilot.
BW: There’s a photo here of your CO and the Duke of Gloucester. Duke of Gloucester’s on the left there.
JT: He became —
BW: And your CO —
JT: Yeah. He was at, he was made the Governor General of Australia wasn’t he. So he came to an Australian squadron to say, when he went to Australia there he could genuinely, could say, ‘I’ve met the lads in England,’ you know. That kind of thing. Yeah.
BW: Do you recall that visit taking place? It would be about the time you were on.
JT: No. No.
BW: Waddington.
JT: I do remember actually. We were told he was coming but I, we’d been on operation that previous night and I said, I’m not getting up to go and see him [laughs] Yes.
BW: There was a couple of Australian crewmen in that photo too.
JT: Yeah. Wing Commander Brill. Yeah.
BW: Did you happen to know them? The other, the other crewmen. They’re named.
JT: No. I don’t. Where did you get this from? Got secret information. Got me here.
BW: That’s from the Australian War Museum that particular photo. But you shared that that base at Waddington with 463 Squadron as well didn’t you?
JT: 463 and 467. That’s right. Yes. Yeah.
BW: And did you get to mix with them at all from the other?
JT: Not really. You didn’t really know. You know there was just a mass of fellows and you didn’t know whether they were 463 or 467. The only, the only near association and strangely enough it was, that was through Derek. That mate of yours who [pause] they formed [pause] what do you call it? Oh God. What’s his name? His father. Johnson.
DT: Johnson. Max Johnson.
JT: Johnson. Johnson. That’s right.
DT: Peter Johnson. Max Johnson was his father and Max Johnson was on 467 Squadron wasn’t he?
JT: That’s right, yeah.
DT: Yeah. And he’s actually listed as one of the pilots of POS at the time.
JT: Yeah.
DT: Yeah.
JT: That’s right. Yeah.
DT: Another coincidence, Brian. I worked for a company. I worked in the chemical research department and I was seconded to a university in Australia to do a research project over there. I was there for two months I think it was. My wife and my daughter came with us and and in the department there was, I was talking to some of the lads in the lab and in the research area and I was saying, ‘Oh, my dad was in the Royal Australian Air Force.’ And they said, ‘Oh you want to come and see Doc Pete. A fellow called Peter Brownall.’ And they said he was on Lancasters during the war. So, they took me along to see this elderly university lecturer and we got talking. A really nice guy you know. And he says, he says what squadron were you with? I said, ‘What squadron were you with?’ So he said 467. I said, ‘Oh that was my dad’s squadron. 467.’ But he was slightly after my dad and I think he was just there, he was there just as the war finished. He’d done his training and he got on to the squadron but 467 then was at Metheringham. And so he was absolutely hacked off because the war had ended and he hadn’t been able to —
BW: Yeah.
DT: Go on operations.
BW: Participate.
DT: So, he was flown, he flew back then to Australian and took up his post as, I think a botany lecturer. Some sort of science lecturer, you know.
BW: Yeah.
DT: So I was talking to him and it was interesting. And there was a not a DVD but a tape of that time. This was 1994. A tape had been produced about, called, “The Lancaster at war,” and I told him about this. So, when I got home I searched out a copy of it and posted it off for him. And I got a really nice letter back you know, thanking me for this. And he said he’d had to go out and buy a tape player and people had been coming around and he’d been, you know he’d been showing this Lancaster thing, Lancaster tape to all his, all his pals. But he was a nice chap. And do you remember that cartoon that he gave me? And it was —
[recording paused]
BW: Last, I think, section to, to cover. Since your retirement and since you left the RAF how does it feel to see Bomber Command being commemorated after all this time? There’s now the Hyde Park Memorial and there’s the Spire in Lincoln?
JT: It should be. It should be.
BW: Have you been to the unveiling of the Memorial Spire in Lincoln?
JT: No. No.
BW: Did you go last year?
JT: No. No.
BW: So, you —
JT: I don’t think that should have been built in London. It should have been built in Lincoln.
BW: Well, the Memorial in Green Park was unveiled a few years ago but they are, they have unveiled a Memorial Spire at Canwick Hill which is what the Bomber Command Centre are responsible for. Have you, have you seen that? Have you been?
JT: No.
BW: No.
JT: I haven’t. No.
BW: But it’s in, and certainly I’m sure you’d agree it’s in the right place. You know, it’s —
JT: Oh, it is. Yeah.
BW: So, there’s a spire which is the height of a Lancaster’s wingspan and it has memorial walls made of steel situated around it. And that’s where the Centre will be built. The Chadwick Centre which will house the digital archive which, you know, this information is going to go into. But you can —
JT: I don’t know if I’ll ever get over to Lincoln now.
BW: Well if you do it’s, it’s worth seeing.
JT: Yeah.
BW: They had a, they had a beautiful unveiling ceremony last year and a flypast. Unfortunately, the Lancaster couldn’t make it but they got the Vulcan instead. And that was, that was really special. If you do get the chance do go and have a look. So, are you, are you glad these sort of commemorations for Bomber Command are coming about now?
JT: Sorry?
BW: Are you glad these sorts of commemorations for Bomber Command are coming about?
JT: Oh yeah. I am glad. Yes. There’s, because there are so many uniques in the army and so on, and navy and they were specifically honoured. And Bomber Command, I think people regarded them as dirty words because of bombing civilians. I think that’s been a failing really.
[recording paused while John leaves the room for a moment]
JT: A while later. A few years later I went to see him. He said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘The firm’s selling up. They’re merging with someone else,’ he said, ‘I’m retiring.’ So, he said, ‘Good luck,’ and all that. So, anyhow a few days later a partner from the firm came with a parcel and he gave me that. Gave me that picture. And I rang this chappy up to thank him for sending it and he said, ‘Well, it belongs to you more than it belongs to me,’ he said, ‘You did some good work for us,’ and all that and so —
BW: And that’s —
JT: He gave it me.
BW: And that’s how you acquired the picture.
JT: That’s how it came. Yeah.
BW: And so you’ve always, you’ve always got that association now with.
JT: [unclear] yeah.
BW: POS and you know.
JT: Yeah.
BT: That was good of them wasn’t it?
BW: And it’s, you know, on permanent display now in the RAF Museum.
JT: Yeah.
BW: So, that’s brilliant. So, when you, when you look back over your career in the RAF has it given you good memories, and?
JT: Oh yes. I’ve got good memories. Some good mates, and you know it was, it’s alright. It’ll be alright. Yes. I never regretted going. Yeah.
BW: We’ll move on to other things like the photographs and whatever. So, you know, for the, for the audio anyway I’ll leave it there for now. So, thank you very much for your time. For the interview. And for giving the information to the International Bomber Command Centre. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with John Foster Thorp
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brian Wright
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-12
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AThorpJF160412, PThorpJF1601
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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01:38:37 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
John Thorp was born and raised in Manchester where he attended North Manchester Grammar School. At seventeen he joined the Home Guard. When he was eighteen he volunteered for the RAF with dreams of becoming a pilot. While waiting at Heaton Park to transfer to further training overseas he became increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress. When invited to volunteer to train as a gunner he decided to accept because he wanted to progress. After training he was posted with his crew to 467 Squadron at RAF Waddington. Returning from the operation on D-Day he saw the massed armada waiting to sail to the landing grounds in Normandy. On take-off to an operation there was a loud bang heard throughout the aircraft. When they returned from the target they tested the undercarriage and the wheel flew past John’s turret. They had to effect an emergency landing at Woodbridge and the pilot completed a remarkable landing.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
India
England--Lincolnshire
England--Suffolk
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1942
1944
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
467 Squadron
9 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
civil defence
crewing up
Gibson, Guy Penrose (1918-1944)
Home Guard
Ju 88
Lancaster
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
RAF Binbrook
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Waddington
RAF Woodbridge
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1319/20092/PGrundyL1905.2.jpg
9fc707178581f4831781105306f09a60
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1319/20092/AGrundyL190928.2.mp3
39cab77f8f8d3cfc461e919660413f88
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Grundy, Lillian
L Grundy
Description
An account of the resource
15 items. An oral history interview with Lillian Grundy (b. 1923), and documents, including correspondence from a prisoner of war and photographs. She worked in an Avro factory during the war.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Lillian Grundy and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-09-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Grundy, L
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BW: This is Brian Wright interviewing Lilian Grundy on Saturday 28th of September 2019 at her home in Salford, Greater Manchester. The time is approximately 11.35. Also with me is her friend Gary Bridson-Daley and World War Two author who’s interviewed Lilian before and [Cherilyn Lauder], her daughter. So, Lilian, if you would just kindly start first off for me would you confirm your date of birth and where you were born?
LG: I was born at Manchester and I was born March the 10th 1923.
BW: And whereabouts in Manchester was it where you, where your home was. Where you grew up?
LG: Ancoats.
BW: And how many family members were there? Mum and dad of course. Did you have any brothers or sisters?
LG: Yes. I had two brothers and two sisters.
BW: And were you the eldest or the youngest?
LG: No. My mother was married and had, before the war she, in the second, the First World War my mother lost her husband and it left her with four children. One of the [pause] William, the eldest one he died in the war. The First World War. So he left her and her husband didn’t come back and she married my dad. He was in the Royal Flying Corps in the First World War my dad. At France. And he didn’t, her husband had died and she married my dad years after and me and my brother came after. So there was me and my brother Edward and my dad. My dad came from the Isle of Man.
BW: And what was it like growing up? This would be in the sort of mid-‘20s now and ‘30s. What was, what was your home life like?
LG: Overcrowded. No bath. No hot water. Basic food. Going to the butchers for bones for nothing and my mother used to skim all the bones off and make soup. Corned beef was cheap and we used to have Oxo in a cup with the stale bread. We never had milk. It was skimmed milk in a tin, and mum used to have a special jar for it. We had a spoon in it. Food were very very basic. Then I left school at 1937 and I went to work. I left school on the Friday and went to work on the Monday and because my mum didn’t want to pay any bus fare there was a mill in Prestwich where I lived and I went in there and I went winding bobbins and I was there until I was seventeen and a quarter. Didn’t like it. It was long hours, very noisy and you were just dogsbody to the weavers. So, I went to Halls Toffee Works at Whitefield and I got a job there and it was on a toffee machine and you had to watch your fingers, there were a big knife on it and I used to wrap all the sweets. I loved it. I loved it. It was nice. You had a proper dinner hour. You had a canteen. You had a nurse. It was lovely. Then a lady came from out of nowhere, asked me all questions and about a month after I was called up to go in to the war. A brown envelope came through the door and I had to go to this place. When I went to the place they said, ‘You’re at Avro’s near Manchester. Never heard of it in my life but I’d seen old Mr Roland Hall who owned the sweet place used to come over. He’d park in his private plane from Ringway and that’s all I knew about planes. Anyway, I was called up and we went to an interview and then I was a member of AV Roe’s and they let, it was the Manchester bomber and they were just changing it over for the Lancaster bomber when our setter used to set the machine up. He’d been there years. He’d done seven years apprenticeship, and we went on to the Lancaster bomber. It was long hours. You were a month on nights. A month on days. I couldn’t manage the days because it was too far to go really. They shouldn’t have sent us that far but they did and I was an hour going, an hour going back. By the time I was coming to go home on nights to get in to bed them who lived near would have been in bed by the time I put my foot on the bus. It was very dark there. No light. I should imagine it had been built before the First World War. To me it looked hundreds and hundreds of years old. Of course, I was young. I went on the Number 8 Machine. It was, I weren’t frightened of the machine because I’d already been on the machine wrapping sweets with the knife, cutting the paper for the toffees. I weren’t frightened. I had two friends who were, who went with me from the toffee works, and they lived at Whitefield so it wasn’t bad. It was long nights. We got a break. I think we had two breaks. You had to clock on but ours were the furthest clock away so I was often a quarter hour because we used to get a train from Manchester to Park Station. That’s at Newton Heath. And we used to run like mad, and still we were a quarter houred. We had no umbrellas in them days and we used to be wringing, wringing wet through by the time we got there. Anyway, there was a trolley and you was to put your coat on it and the man used to wind it up. You never seen your coat then until you came home. There were guards on the door. You had a pass. You knew everybody in the machine shop and the food was good and it was cheap. We, the canteen did serve good food, but I could never have afforded it, only on a Friday. We used to have fish and chips which I looked forward to.
BW: So did you have to take your —
LG: We had sandwiches.
BW: I was just going to say did you have to take your food in? if you weren’t going to —
LG: Yes. You used to take. We had a locker. A tin locker. It was no good but we still had it. Everybody smoked cheap cigarettes and it used to smell of cigarettes all through the factory. And then we used to skim the wings and it was like nail polish remover to me. Nail polish remover, and it used to smell of that, cigarettes and everybody sweating. But them days nobody told you if you had b.o. even if you had. Nobody bothered. You just got on with the war. We had a boiler suit. All you could see from the boiler suit was your hands, feet and face and we had a silly hat and you pulled it right over your head. Of course, I had a lot of hair and she used to come around and poke you on the shoulder very hard and say, ‘Get that hair under that cap.’
BW: Was this your supervisor?
LG: Yes.
BW: What were they like? I mean obviously trying to keep your hair under your hat but —
LG: Yes. Because —
BW: Were they constantly looking at you to make so many parts per hour or something like that?
LG: Well, when I look back now, yes. She was keeping me safe, so me hair wouldn’t get around the, the tools which was on the capstan lathe. Yes.
BW: And how big a machine was it? This lathe you were working on.
LG: Oh, twice as big as me and I’m five foot four.
BW: So it was quite, quite a size.
LG: Heavy.
BW: I believe there was a note on the machine when you first arrived at the factory.
LG: Oh yes. Somebody had gone in the Navy had said, “Keep this machine right. I’ve always looked after it and I’ll be back.” And I used to think I wonder what he looked like.
BW: You never met him.
LG: No.
BW: And you said two friends joined you when you moved from Hall and Brothers. The confectioners at Whitefield. They came over to Avro’s with you. Did you see them when you were in the factory on your breaks or anything like that?
LG: Yes. I went out with them all the time. We went dancing. We went on regular nights to save all the coming and going and we used to get up in the day and go dancing at the Ritz or the Plaza in town and we used to, I got then a very good dancer and they did. Could do all the dances. The jitterbug. And of course the Americans all came into the war then and we danced with them and then I used to say, ‘I have to go. I have to leave you. I have to go back. I’m on nights.’ Yes.
BW: And you left Hall’s in 1940.
LG: No.
BW: Sorry. Did you leave later than that?
LG: Yes. 1940 I’d only be seventeen. I was, when I was eighteen and a quarter so that’s ’41.
BW: Ok. I’m just interested in the period in 1940 because that’s quite significant in history and I wondered although you were working at a different factory before joining Avro’s what it was like in that period of time. Whether you felt the nation was under threat or how did it feel during 1940 when the threat of invasion was pretty imminent. Did you get a sense of that?
LG: I thought we’d win. I never thought we’d lose. I never, and I didn’t miss anybody and I met plenty of the forces. Canadians, Poles, French, you name it. Americans. English. Sailors. All dancing. Just wishing the war was over and they wanted to go home. I never met nobody who said we wouldn’t win. No. We was all determined and one of Winston Churchill’s speeches, ‘We will fight on the beaches, and on the land and never, never will we surrender.’ Well, that was in us. That was in us. Yes. Definitely. We were out to win the war and do our best which I think we did.
BW: And during this time you had met a young man. George.
LG: Oh, I met him in August.
BW: August ’39.
LG: Yes. It was beautiful, beautiful weather. I’d gone with my friend into the park at Prestwich. Her uncle was a gardener and he was putting flowers into this garden and she took me along to see him. He were called Percy. And we sat on this bench and Percy came over, which would be her uncle and he gave us a few sweets and he said, ‘Stay there and I’ll cut a few flowers for you to take home for your mother.’ So we stayed on this bench. Beautiful park. St Mary’s in Prestwich. We stayed there and there was a bandstand behind, it’s not there anymore and two boys came along and we still sat there watching Percy doing the garden. And then they came over and they said, they were well dressed, I’d never seen anybody so fit and upstanding with their shoulders and they said, ‘What time is it, girls?’ Well, we hadn’t got a watch. It wasn’t, well we couldn’t afford a watch and as they said that the clock that’s still there, the clock, it chimed 3 o’clock. We laughed. They laughed. Percy came and said, ‘Are they bothering you?’ And she said, ‘No.’ And they asked to sit down at the side of us. The rest is history. I courted him and he, he, the war started the 3rd of September and he was away at Leyland, Preston guarding with a piece of wood outside, supposed to be a gun outside this gas mask factory. And he was there and then he came home on leave and he said, ‘I am not a territorial any more. I’m regular Army.’ Then he came, he was sent up to Northumberland. Way up Northumberland and he finished up there at Alnwick Castle. And from there he went over to, down south and then he went to France. I’ve got all his mail. He came on leave a few times. My sister got married 1940, April. Easter Saturday. And on the Easter Monday I had all Easter weekend seeing him going on walks and going in the park. We had no money. He had no money so we walked my shoes off. My sister got married then and then on the Monday night he had to go back to Northumberland. I didn’t see him any more then. That was April 1940 and he came home to me 1st of May 1945. I was, been on nights at AV Roe’s. Worked very hard. Tired. And this knocking kept going on and I thought it’s, it was the kids again knocking at the door. I looked through the window and there was George after over five years. I had curlers in my hair, and I always thought when he comes home I’ll meet him at a station and I’d be all dressed up. Of course, I got good money at AV Roe’s so I was able to get myself some nice clothes, nice shoes and nice handbags. So I wanted to meet him in all my finery and there was I at the window with all my curlers in.
BW: Because he’d joined the Lancashire Fusiliers and been sent over with the Expeditionary Force to France as you say.
LG: Yes.
BW: And then was captured during the retreat from Dunkirk which was why you didn’t see him for five years. He was taken to a prisoner of war camp.
LG: Yes. He got wounded in his arm but the bullet went right through. He still had the bullet wound up to him dying. You could put your finger in the hole in his arm. Yes.
BW: And so all, all of that, both the joy of having met him and the sort of, the hope of meeting him again occupied your thoughts no doubt while you were working at Roe’s didn’t it?
LG: Yes. I got married from AV Roe’s. Yes. They brought a present. A duck, a park duck. There weren’t much to buy because there had been six years of war. Nothing.
BW: So just going back to your time in the factory at Roe’s. So you said you started on the Manchester. And then you were making parts for the Lancaster. Do you know what sort of parts they were? Were they specific for say an engine or part of the air frame or were they just bits that you were told to make and given somebody else to make the aircraft?
LG: No. It was big screws. Very, very big screws and you had to make the screw from [pause] you leaned over and you pushed the metal bar. You leaned over again and you put it in the capstan lathe and then you got all things here that you had like a [ pause ] like a knob on the end. You twirled it and you twirled it. And all the time you were doing this so your waist was very slim. Everybody around you were very slim. All the women had beautiful waists because they were moving. You weren’t still a minute. And then if you wanted to contact your friends, my friend who got called up with me, Muriel. She’s still alive in Southampton. No. Yeah.
Other: Corby.
CL: Corby.
Other: Northampton.
LG: Not Southampton. They made a new estate. She married a Polish man. Made a new estate down there.
BW: It’ll come back to you.
LG: Northampton.
BW: Northampton.
LG: In the mid estate. She went down there. Well, you were never still because if you wanted to talk to her it were noisy. It was very, very noisy so you were never still. You used to tip tap to her, she tip tapped back while this, your machine were going around and if you wanted to go to the toilet I used to put my hand up and she’d do the same and the gov’ put your fingers three minutes. And you had to get your screw off. You couldn’t leave it because you’d ruin it and then when it finished the machine would stop. And then it had a burr on the end. Watch your fingers because you had a big, a big thing and you took the burr off and then you stepped off a duck board and you would go. Oh, it would be a long way. I’d say a six minute walk to the toilet because it was a big place. Hundreds and hundreds of people were working there and nobody said hello to you or nodded when you went to the toilet because they were all busy. All busy bees doing all the work. If you were a long time and you came back of course her machine was on the level with mine. She’d be on number two machine. Well, they’d be empty. Well, he come. The foreman would come. ‘Where the hell have you been?’ You got told off. And you were told off more in one day than they had been for all the years after. Yes. It was hard, heavy, miserable, smelly, cold, damp work. And we were very tried but you couldn’t get tired. I found 3 o’clock, 3 o’clock to 4 o’clock was the worst hours.
BW: Would that be when you were on nights?
LG: Yes. That was the worst period. Yes. And then if you went to the canteen it wasn’t, it was an old place, you were wringing wet through going and it snowed on you. You had to mind you didn’t slip and you couldn’t get your coat because it was hung up inside, so you come back freezing and when you come back there was a door right behind me. My machine was there and the door was here. Muriel my friend was higher up so it were warmer. And they’d open this door to take the wings of the planes out and I used to freeze to death. It was freezing cold but lovely in the winter because the big doors would be open.
BW: In the Summer.
LG: On the railway line. The Park Station.
BW: It would be lovely in the summer though.
LG: Beautiful. But all the breath, you got everybody’s breath and they got yours because there was no interval in between. No. No. If they swept up they swept up while you were there. They had labourers. Men who had been in the First World War came to do labouring. Yeah.
BW: I’m just going to show you a photograph of an assembly line which was taken at Chadderton. Does that look something similar to the environment you worked in?
[pause]
LG: No. No. They had all these platforms and these ladders yes. Platform and the ladders. And they used to have half, half of the Lancaster riveting up there. Up on them things. The platform.
BW: Yeah.
LG: The platform. They’d have half, yeah. I don’t remember the floor like that. It was uneven. Been there First World War. They never even did it.
BW: Yeah.
LG: Used to, well I used to wear low heels so I was all right. You couldn’t wear high heels on that duck board because it had, it were just knocked together. You used to walk so your heels would go in the wood and you’d be stuck. You’d be doing it with one shoe on and one off. So no. I don’t recognise that at all. No.
BW: I just wondered if it was, if it was similar being sort of a big open space.
LG: Oh yes.
BW: With a load of machines and things.
LG: High up it was but there it looks, it’s looks a modern factory where mine was very old. Very, very old. Everything you touched were old. Even the toilets. They were tin, I would say asbestos. You wouldn’t be able to put it now. I would have said there was asbestos. Yes. And floors. Uneven floor. Yeah. You just had to just watch every way you went. Yeah. And outside when you come out in the yard, it wasn’t cobbled. It was, I don’t know just a trampled piece of land.
BW: Did you ever get to see aircraft like the Lancaster or the Manchester flying at all? You weren’t on an airfield of course but did you ever to get to see them flying during the war at all?
LG: Oh no. Oh no. No. No. No.
BW: You mentioned that you had a number of friends and that you got to meet a number of servicemen from different countries. You mentioned also earlier that you’d spoken to a Canadian. Is that right?
LG: American.
BW: American. I beg your pardon.
LG: That’s his place.
BW: Is that him?
LG: Yes. He were called Johnny.
BW: How did you get to meet him? Was it just at, was it through the dancing and —
LG: Yes. Dancing. And we went to concerts. And then people at work would say, ‘Are you doing anything tomorrow? Would you like to come on a blind date?’ I’d been on a few of them and they’d been alright. Yeah. Nice people. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: And at this stage you were working alternate shifts. One month on nights, one month on days and six days a week, twelve hours a day, I think you said.
LG: Yes.
BW: And that continued for pretty much four years solid.
LG: All the time. Yes. Yeah.
BW: And you didn’t get any other days off apart from the Sunday. You didn’t have things like holiday time or anything like that, did you?
LG: No. When we did days you got first when I went there you had a Monday and the next week it went to Tuesday. And that’s how it went. Very rare you got a Sunday at home because you would have to go say seven. Seven weeks for Sunday and it used to alter. Well, on nights we used to finish Friday, Saturday dinner. Saturday dinner ‘til Monday night. So you had all the weekend. And that’s how you met people. I was never in. Never in.
BW: And you said earlier the money [coughs] the money was good.
LG: Yes. It weren’t bad because you could — what do call that? [pause] You made your own [pause] you had a basic wage. Everybody had that and then you would work hard and you’d go to the checkout and they would say you’ve earned well perhaps a sixpence or a shilling on working hard. The sooner you did it you got a bonus. That was it. So I always got a bonus. Always. I used to keep my head down and think I’m making money. I’m making money.
BW: And was the bonus paid on the number of screws that you made?
LG: Yes. Yes. And a man used to come around and say if they weren’t right. He was Scotch. Came from Scotland. He didn’t like working there, and he would grumble all the time. But why he wasn’t in the war was because he had duodenal tummy. He used to say, ‘I want to go back to Scotland to my wife and children.’ We got that the whole of the time. And I used to say, ‘Shut up. I’m miserable too.’
BW: And did you manage to keep in touch with what was happening in the war in general?
LG: Oh, yes.
BW: Did you used to keep abreast of certain information?
LG: Oh yes. Used to go to Manchester and there was a News Theatre. Used to take you to the news, most of the Americans loved the News Theatre. They’d take you there and then would take you to the big picture and buy you a meal after and a drink. But they’d more money. Lots more money than ours. Yes. And a nicer uniform. Softer and nicer. Ours was woolly, and if it got wet and they kissed you, you could smell wool on us [laughs] Yes.
BW: Yeah.
LG: A different world.
BW: Heavy and scratchy.
LG: A different world altogether. And they used to talk of fridges and washing machines and I used to think what are they talking about? [laughs] Yeah. Cadillacs and cars like that. Show you, they’d show you. They had this big car in America and I used to think oh, you know they were kidding. It was their father’s or their uncle’s which now I know it would be theirs.
BW: Yeah. What do you recall of June 6th 1944 when you were in the factory and you got news of D-Day?
LG: Oh, that. Oh, that was [pause] I was on nights on the machine and you used to do, you couldn’t hear so we did lights. They used to do lights. And they used to do this. I think it was a coloured light and they used to, if that was break and they used to do this coloured light. And you couldn’t hear, so it’s no good saying go to your meal because you couldn’t hear. They did this light. We used to then stop the machine [pause] get our lunches and go down to the canteen. It was a long walk and we used to get outside. It was no rain. It was a beautiful dawn and we’d go to, in the canteen like we did all the time. Paying no attention. Just to get your food. We all sat down and by then we’d been there years so the men used to sit with us then at the other side and we were eating our meal and this tannoy came on, and it said something like [pause] I can’t describe it. It was something like, ‘Ladies and gentleman of England. This is our day. The men have gone. It is D-Day.’ Well, we all looked at one another and the man said again, I think he was called Alvar Liddell, because Lord Haw Haw used to do his voice and he used to say it was him. Not Lord Haw Haw because he used to come on. He was over in Germany. And we all looked at one another and the men said, ‘Oh it’s D-Day.’ And it dawned. Absolutely hit you in the face because we’d been expecting it for twelve month. So he went off the air and he said, ‘We wish our boys luck.’ Something like that. And there was a lot of ladies with us who was older and they said, ‘Stop your lunch.’ Breakfast. It was a breakfast. ‘Stop your breakfast. We’ll all held hands and we’ll pray for England and the boys.’ And there was people crying. Well, we were young. We knew we’d lose a lot. And the man across said, ‘You know when you go and fight?’ And we said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Well, all Germany will be ready for our boys and they’ll be ready for our Navy.’ Which I thought was the finest in the world then. We all did. ‘And they will be defending it,’ and he said, ‘While you was eating your other meal the other night and I came and pushed you would you have gone back?’ I said, ‘Yeah, of course I would.’ He said, ‘Well, that’s what we’re going to have. They’re waiting and they’ve got everything ready and they’ve been arming for years and years and they’re going to throw everything at us because they want Germany to win and we’ll lose a lot of people.’ So I said, ‘Well, let’s all say the Lord’s Prayer,’ which we did. Everybody knew it. And there was two singers. They came from outside Manchester they came and they were in the church choir and they got on the stage and they sung, “There’ll Always Be an England,” and, “Jerusalem,” and the mills, the satanic mills. The real Jerusalem. And everybody, we had tin plates, tin mugs, but you all had your own in your locker with your name painted on. I painted mine on with nail polish and we banged them and I think we chipped off all the white stuff off them [laughs] The enamel. And we all went back singing, to our machine, and separately and the foreman came walking down and the other foreman come walking down and we had about ten bosses, they came walking down. There were more bosses than workers. People who were ill I suppose, and couldn’t go in the war. And they said, ‘Get on with your work.’ And we did. And it finished. We got, buses came, 25 bus used to bring us into Albert Square. A long walk along the Fish Market and the Flower Market to the Victoria Station and everybody I met and even the bus scouts and that I said, ‘It’s D-Day, D-Day, D-Day.’ I came home and my mother was getting up to give me a bit of, no, I had no breakfast. No cup of tea. I used to just roll in bed, and I said, ‘Mother, get up. It’s D-Day.’ She said, ‘Oh, those poor boys.’ And that was D-Day. It was wonderful. And the pictures were showing you all of them going over and everything. And then I went to work the next day and there were some ladies we used to sit near for lunch. Older than us. And they said, ‘Haven’t you got a boyfriend over in Germany? ‘So I said, ‘Yes. I’m engaged to him.’ And they said, ‘He’ll be coming home soon.’ And I thought oh, of course he will, because. They’ll be advancing into Germany now and they’re going to get his prisoner of war camp. Anyway, they sent them on a long march and he ended up at Dresden where they made beautiful, beautiful pots. Even after the war and before the war and he got to Dresden and it had been a long march and it had been, he set off before D-Day, and they used to get the snow off the German side and they had an old kettle that they used to put snow in the kettle and make cups of tea. They used a tea bag about fifteen times until it was like just water. And as they got into Dresden all the people had no houses. We’d bombed them. And they were on the roadside sat, well on piles of timber and bricks, the houses begging for food. They said, ‘I’m very sorry. We’re hungry too.’ And he said, then after being a prisoner five years we just all stopped and looked and he said to them, some had been very cruel to them and they wanted to be kind to these people and he said, ‘I really, really thought oh look at the world. It’s absolutely destroyed and these people are as hungry as I am.’ His stomach was hurting and theirs was hurting more. ‘And they looked us in our eyes and we looked back.’ He said, ‘I’ll never forget that.’ But he said, ‘Oh, what you’ve done to us,’ and he said, and I do go to church, he felt he couldn’t tell you how he felt, and they were all the same. They were all quiet. Very, very quiet. And they heard tanks and they said, ‘Them are ours. They’re too noisy them tanks.’ And it was the Americans. Throwing chewing gum. And he’d never chewed, he didn’t even like chewing gum. And he said they were throwing chewing gum and they said, ‘Food,’ and they said, ‘Back at camp.’ And they gave them that much food they were sick as a dog. Their stomach couldn’t take it. And then ours came and took them in big trucks and they had a bath. Every three minutes they were throwing them in a bath. Yeah. Yeah. These Americans couldn’t believe them. They were saying, ‘We’re British. We’re British.’ And they said, ‘You look terrible.’ They said, ‘Wouldn’t you after five years?’
BW: Yeah. Five years in a camp and bad food. And you’d got letters from George through that time. While you’re on the home front and in the factory George was in the prison camp. You corresponded with him.
LG: Oh yes.
BW: Through that time.
LG: Oh, I got lots of letters. He used to give. The Red Cross used to come. He would never, never, when he came home pass a Red Cross box and the Salvation Army. He would always, always if we’d not got a penny he’d put it in. He said, ‘Only for them I’m living.’
BW: And come the end of the war even before the formal end of the war on May 8th he’d come back to you. You said earlier he came back in early May. Is that right, he was —
LG: 1st of May.
BW: Yeah. How soon was it after that you got married?
LG: June the 2nd
BW: So that’s pretty quick.
LG: Quick. Very quick.
BW: And did, because you had, you perhaps wouldn’t have known this at the time because you had another five or six months to run with Avro’s because you finished in November 1945.
LG: Yes.
BW: Did you get time off to get married?
LG: Yes. Yes. I didn’t get paid. I got the time off. Yeah.
BW: And were you able to afford a reception and a honeymoon or was it —
LG: Yeah. We went to Southport on our honeymoon because all the beaches was barricaded up with guns and the people on them to safeguard our island when they felt France and Holland and all over there, yeah.
BW: And George had some time for recuperation.
LG: Oh yes.
BW: When he went off to hospital and so on in Cheshire.
LG: Yes. Looked after him. He got double rations. He had a double ration book for food. Yes. He got double rationed.
BW: And then come post-war period how soon were you sort of able to get your own house and place together and what happened after the war for you?
LG: Oh. His mother lived up Unsworth. A little village up Bury. Bury took, Bury was the council. This cottage became empty and it had been a sergeant major in it with the Suffolk Regiment up Unsworth. There was a mill there. A cotton mill. And they put all these Army of the Suffolk Regiment in and this sergeant major had got this little cottage. No hot water. No. No, no bath, no hot water, and no water toilet. Bury used to come and empty it. Anyway, my brother then was in the REME. He came back and he was taking the other bedroom out in the cottage so we’d nowhere to sleep because I used to sleep with my mum in the bedroom, in the front. My brother had the back one, and we’d nowhere to sleep. So when he went up to his mum’s with him and she said, ‘There’s a cottage empty but it’s in a terrible disgrace.’ So his sister said, ‘I know the landlady. I go to church with.’ So she took me to see the landlady and the landlady said, ‘I’ve got twenty people after it.’ I thought well, it can’t be that bad. So she said, ‘You can have it because George’s people go to church with me.’ She was a churchgoer. She was not married. She were an old lady. Not married. No nothing. No kids. Nothing. And we got the key to go and see it. Anyway, I thought well it’s not too bad. George was away then. He didn’t see it. And I scrubbed it, and a man I knew who was a decorator and he’d been in the First World War so he stayed here with us. So he decorated it for us, for not too much money and he had a van and he moved. I went and got different things while George was in. He came home April the following year. So twelve months to get stuff and my mum kept it down her cellar. So he moved me in the van up to the cottage, but George was demobbed then and the cottage was all lovely. We stayed there. The only thing I didn’t like was it hadn’t got a water closet and I don’t, I know we’d had no bath and no hot water in our cottage but our cottage was twenty times better than that. It weren’t good but it was twenty times better. Anyway, we went in it and we were in it quite a while. It was only 25p a week rent so I used to pay it at a pound a month because the landlady was a lonely lady and she used to talk me to death. Of course, I’m only twenty odd, and I didn’t want to talk that long and I didn’t drink cups of tea in them days. So I never wanted to go and have a cup of tea [laughs]
BW: And you continued —
LG: I put my name down and I got this house.
BW: Working. Then you continued working for Hall’s I think at first and then you had various cleaning jobs around and about didn’t you and raised a family.
LG: I went to, yeah I went to Smith’s, the cleaners at Prestwich. Yeah. I stayed there until I was sixty two and they made me a party for sixty but I told them a lie so I could stay longer. So when I was having my sixtieth party I said I’ve gone sixty two. I told a white lie. That was a cheap one but I was, I could have done another five years easy, but I got my pension. Full pension.
BW: And so when, now after all this time you see the, the sort of tributes being paid to Bomber Command and Lancasters flying on display.
LG: Oh, when I see that.
BW: Does it evoke all those emotions again for you? How do you feel seeing that?
LG: Oh, I could cry. I think we used to say at the Works that, the setter used to say, ‘Come on, you little belter.’ So when they fly over I say, ‘Come on you little belter.’ Yeah. I think of how marvellous it was and the men who designed it and everything. Very clever. And to do that bouncing bomb and open those big doors because they altered it for the big door to come on. Ah, what a wonderful thing. They must have been. Mind you they had a very good education. They were in another world to you. You were down here and they were up there. Another world. And it opened my eyes going to AV Roe’s. Another world. You’re not the same person. You’ve just, in a week you’ve grown up so much. And they’re talking different. So different than Radcliffe and Bury twang. You know, there’s all different, different ones. And then you’ve got people coming if they married and had no children they were on the machines with you and their husbands would be in oh, Egypt or Italy. Way out Palestine. And yeah. You heard all them talking whereas I’d only heard girly talk because the men didn’t bother with you. They was too busy working. Yeah. It was different.
BW: But it, it was a good experience for you.
LG: Very.
BW: Even though it was —
LG: Because you grew up. Yes. And then you see you couldn’t put a foot dancing then. Well, in your dinner hour they used to get you up and they’d say, ‘This is the quick step.’ ‘This is the waltz.’ I never knew any of that. And then you’d get them singers coming on stage. And I’d never heard of Jerusalem and the satanic mills. It was a big [pause] I don’t know. It was just opened new things. And then the Americans used to talk on things I never knew, and then the airmen coming in Heaton Park and they were all with the white on, on the front of their hat and that meant they was going to be on the aeroplanes. And they used to go and study and I used to say, ‘Why are you studying?’ They used to say, ‘Because I want to be a pilot.’ But most of them written to me afterwards and some of them had been an air gunner and some had been a, mapping out the maps.
BW: Navigator.
LG: Yeah. And there were very few pilots but most who had written they all passed for the aircraft and they went to South Africa and Canada. And I’ve got the letters now to this day.
BW: Right.
LG: Yeah.
BW: So it opened up a whole new world for you, didn’t it?
LG: A new world. Yeah. They talked on different things and then we’d been to, them who lived down south used to talk about fields, and the lambs and things and I used to think what are they talking about? And they used to use big words. Well, me dad had bought me a dictionary. I used to come home and look it up. And they used to call me petite, and I didn’t know what it was and it meant you’re a small slim person which I was [laughs] It was different. And then I used to, then I went. I lost my other friends then. They got sent. One went in the Navy. The Army and the Navy. The Land Army. Well, they went away and all the lads I went to school went in the forces so you had to make a world for yourself and George was taken away off me. So, it was different. So different. And you just grew up all at once.
BW: Fine. Well, thank you very much for, for your time, Lilian. It’s great to hear the recollections. So I’ll end the interview now if that’s alright.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Lillian Grundy
Creator
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Brian Wright
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-09-28
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AgrundyL190928, PGrundyL1905
Format
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00:56:39 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Lillian Grundy was born grew up in Ancoats, Manchester. Upon leaving school, she worked in a local mill winding bobbins, and the Hall Brothers Toffee Works wrapping sweets. Grundy met George in 1939 and they were engaged in Easter 1940, however, he was captured during Dunkirk and taken to a prisoner of war camp, where he remained until 1945. In 1941 she was called up to work at the Avro factory, where she made screws for Manchester and Lancaster aircraft until November 1945. She describes working for twelve-hours, six days a week, rotating night and day shifts monthly, and recalls the uncomfortable conditions of the factory. Despite the long hours, she notes the good wage, receiving a bonus for hard work, and going dancing with her friends and American servicemen on their days off. She also recollects her emotions upon learning of D-Day during a night-shift and joining hands with her colleagues to pray and sing. Grundy also describes her surprise reunion with George in May 1945, their marriage the following month, and his recuperation before moving into their first home in 1946.
Contributor
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Tilly Foster
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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France
Great Britain
England--Manchester
England--Lancashire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940-03-24
1941
1945
1945-05
1945-11
1946
Coverage
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Civilian
Language
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eng
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
home front
Lancaster
love and romance
Manchester
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
prisoner of war
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1321/20095/PLatimerJF1903.1.jpg
5c4fa4c3f15f857cd59311650ec10fee
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1321/20095/ALatimerJF190928.1.mp3
00322638009f1409521f729c53768fda
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Latimer, James Ferguson
J F Latimer
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Jim Latimer (1923 - 2020, 1551478 Royal Air Force) his log book, and photographs. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 102 and 462 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-09-28
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Latimer, JF
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BW: Here we go. Right.
GBD: Ok, Jim.
JL: Yeah.
BW: This Is Brian Wright interviewing Warrant Officer Jim Latimer.
JL: Jim’s Ferguson Latimer.
BW: Jim Ferguson Latimer.
JL: Thank you.
BW: On Saturday 28th September 2019 at approximately 4.45 at his home in Salford.
GBD: Prestwich, Manchester.
BW: Prestwich.
GBD: Yeah.
BW: Manchester. Also with me are his friend Gary Bridson-Daley, and World War Two author, and Jim’s wife Joan. And Gary, you wanted to introduce, introduce Jim as well.
GBD: Yeah. Just for a little minute. I’m very privileged to know Jim Latimer and Jean Latimer and they are from the same church as myself. They’re the longest parishioners there. Over seventy years they’ve been there which is quite astounding. I’m Gary Bridson-Daley author of, “A Debt of Gratitude to the Last Heroes.” And as part of my Debt of Gratitude Project going throughout the UK interviewing some of the last World War Two veterans I’ve been blessed to have interviewed over one hundred veterans from all services and backgrounds now of which Jim is one of them and is in that first book.
JFL: A fair amount isn’t it?
GBD: It’s not bad is it, Jim. Eh? Yeah.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: It’s great.
JFL: You’ve interviewed a lot of guys.
GBD: And ladies too. Yes.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: And it’s been an absolute honour and privilege to do so. It’s also a great thing to be able to help the IBCC with, with introducing veterans such as I have done today and Jim now, to help with their fantastic work. And anything we can always do to help people that are doing things for our veterans and to capture these precious stories for posterity and for the future and for the country and generations yet to come is a great thing, and I’m very honoured to be a part of it in my project and in helping others with theirs. So I’m going to hand over to Jim Latimer who was Halifax bombers, forty six missions. Bomb aimer. And now handing over for the interview to be done with Brian. And I just wanted to have a little, little part of that. Just —
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: Because it’s so special and they’re such good friends. That’s it. Well, thank you. Brian, over to you. Jim, enjoy the interview.
JFL: Yeah. Ok, Brian.
BW: Ok, Jim. Just to start off for us could you give us your full name, date of birth and service number please?
JFL: Yeah. It’s James Ferguson Latimer. What’s the next one?
BW: Date of birth.
JFL: Oh yeah. 21 12 ’23.
BW: And do you recall your service number at all?
JFL: Yeah. 1551478.
BW: Great. Thank you. And where were you born Jim?
JFL: I was actually born in Scotland.
JL: Edinburgh.
BW: And how many people were in your family? I mean obviously mum and dad?
JFL: Yeah.
BW: But any brothers and sisters?
JFL: There was two brothers. One came, another brother came later but one.
JL: Who are you talking about?
JFL: We emigrated. Well, I was only a tot of four or five years old and my parents emigrated to Toronto in Canada. Ontario. My dad had a good job over there.
BW: What did he do?
JFL: He worked on tall buildings. I don’t know what, exactly what was, I don’t know what his trade or profession was or anything like that.
JL: Sheet metal.
JFL: It was what?
JL: Sheet metal worker.
JFL: Yeah. That’s what he was originally. Sheet metal worker but there was a lot of building. Skyscrapers going up in Toronto at the time which was way back in the 20s. And he had a good job out there. That was the reason for emigration. There wasn’t much in Scotland where they originally came from. So they wanted to emigrate which is what they did.
BW: So there was you and two brothers.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Any sisters? Or did they come later?
JFL: No sisters. No.
BW: And where did you go to school out there?
JFL: In the York township which is just north of Toronto.
BW: And when did you leave school? It was common in the UK for people to leave school at fourteen but what happened with you?
JFL: I think I was fifteen when I left High School and when the [pause] when the war started, or it was just before the war started it was obvious there was going to be a war with, with what was going on with Hitler and our Prime Minister here. My parents decided to come back to, well they came back to England. So the war had just started I think when we came back to Great Britain.
BW: And did you look for work or were you working at that, at that time when you came back? Or did you continue in education or anything?
JFL: I was still at, still going to school then at that time. I can’t remember how old I was.
BW: Do you recall whereabout you moved to?
JFL: I was —
BW: Did you, did you come to the north west of the UK at all or were you elsewhere in the country? Where did your dad and the family settle?
JFL: Came from Edinburgh because my parents originally came from Edinburgh, and then went over to Canada and my dad had a job at Toronto. I was at school. My brothers were at school, and I was, I went to High School. I did five years in high school which is like, I don’t know the equivalent in England. Grammar School. Something like that. And then the war, the war with Hitler you can, it was on the cards there was going to be a war. So for some reason or other, I don’t know why, my parents wanted to come back to Scotland and I wasn’t, I wasn’t very old then, and I had to had two brothers at the time. And the war started and we came back with the war being on. German subs were having a ball out there. Torpedoed a lot, an awful lot of merchant, merchant ships. I always remember I was only, I can’t remember, nine or ten on the ship on my way back to the British Isles, and I went up on the deck with my brother just looking at the Atlantic Ocean if you like and this, this ship passed on its way to either the States or Canada and they only got as far as the horizon. We were stood watching it. It was torpedoed. It just blew up. So all the poor guys on it they never had a chance. A U-boat obviously torpedoed it. And then —
BW: Was it a civilian ship?
JFL: I don’t really know at the time. It was, it could have been a passenger ship that passed us but it might just have been a merchant ship. Difficult to know. But it just got to the sky line. The next thing the sun, the sun had gone down and it just lit up the sky with being torpedoed. Poor guys.
BW: And from living in Edinburgh what prompted you to join the RAF? Were you minded to join any other service or was it specifically the RAF you wanted?
JFL: I’m just trying to think now. Yeah. I joined, I joined the Air Force here in Manchester. I was at Heaton Park. That’s where [pause] young guys from all over the world came to Heaton Park. If they were in bomber, if they were going to be in Bomber Command, you know. They came from South Africa, Australia, New Zealand. They all came to Heaton Park. So I was at Heaton Park there for a while waiting to be sent out to whatever flying base was available. And —
BW: And was that for your basic training?
JFL: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did quite a bit of basic training.
BW: And when did you move to your sort of trade training to become a bomb aimer?
JFL: A bit vague. A bit vague on it. I was aircrew for a start so I don’t know why or, why or how I became an air bomber but that’s what I did.
BW: I believe you trained initially on Wellington bombers.
JFL: Yeah. Originally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We went even, the Germans had occupied France so we were, we flew. Started off with Wellingtons. We used to fly over France. And when we were bombing armament factories in France because the Germans had taken over. That’s how I started with flying. And then later on went on to Halifaxes. Big planes. And —
BW: What do you recall of the Wellingtons? What were they, what were they like?
JFL: Well, they were alright. Two engines. They were a bit, eventually a bit obsolete. It was all four engines. So that’s where, where we got to. So the, it was four engined going over Germany.
BW: And your first mission. Your first operation was as you say over occupied France but —
JFL: Yeah.
BW: I wanted to ask a bit about your time while you were at the base in Yorkshire. At Pocklington.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Because you joined 102 Squadron.
JFL: That’s right. Yeah.
BW: Now, there’s, you said you were starting on Halifaxes at this time.
JFL: That’s right yeah because of the —
BW: Can you recall the names of the other members of the crew? The pilot and —
JFL: I can’t remember them now offhand.
BW: Your pilot was Flight Sergeant Mitchell.
JFL: Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. But the, the two gunners. The two gunners I can’t remember. One was Scottish. The other guy was, I think he was from South Africa. A lot of them came over from different parts of the world to join up.
BW: If I read some of the names of the crew would you recognise or know anything about them? William McCorkindale.
JFL: Yeah. He was the engineer I think. Little Scottish guy.
BW: And RW Scott.
JFL: I’m sorry?
BW: RW Scott. Flight Sergeant Scott.
JFL: No. I can’t.
BW: No.
JFL: Oh, Scott. I vaguely remember him but I’m not sure. No.
BW: Mitchell was your pilot.
JFL: That’s right. Yeah.
BW: Maguire.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Who, where was Maguire in the aircraft?
JFL: Sorry?
BW: Where was Maguire in the aircraft?
JFL: I think he was the rear gunner I think.
BW: And Flight Sergeant Thornton?
JFL: What was that again?
BW: Flight Sergeant Thornton. AF Thornton.
JFL: I’m not quite sure now.
BW: And the other was Kellard. Sergeant Kellard.
JFL: Yeah. I can’t remember the names now.
BW: Ok. Do you recall how you met each other? Normally you’d be left alone to sort of crew up they called it. Do you remember how you met your other crewmates?
JFL: I’m a bit vague on it. [pause] We were stationed at Heaton Park. That’s where, from the British Empire they all, they all came to Heaton Park from South Africa, Australia, New Zealand. This is where they ended up. And from, from there then they were sent to different airfields eventually. And the airfield I was sent to was, I can’t remember the name of it now. It was in the Midlands. England. And we were on Wellingtons. The two engine Wellingtons. And we did quite a few ops there. Mainly over France. Germany had occupied France then and there was a lot of munitions workers in the south east of France and that, that was our target. So that’s what I was on to start off with. And then from there we graduated to [pause] that was, those were Wellingtons. Yeah. Then I was on Halifaxes then. Four engine bomber.
BW: What were they like to fly in as crew? How did you find it? Was it, was it pretty cramped?
JFL: Cramped? No. No. No, there was plenty of room. It was alright. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: I’m going to show you a couple of pictures. One is of a Halifax, and the other is of crew positions inside.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: And just see if these prompt any recollections for you.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: The one you’ve got in your left hand of the crew position. That’s the flight engineer.
JFL: Oh.
BW: And then underneath that will be the bomb aimer’s position in the front of the aircraft.
JFL: Yeah. Which is —
BW: Does that —
JFL: Which is the front? I can’t make it out [pause] Well, when we, when we got to within a mile of the target I had to go down to the nose of the aircraft, lie down flat and the bombsight had a few figures in it. We had to adjust the bomb sight and then when we got within a mile going near into the city we had to fly straight and level and it would probably sorry [noise] very slow. The speed, the speed was slowed right down in order to get to the target to make sure the bombs were in the right position. So when we got to within so many, a mile perhaps from the target the bomb, the bomb aimer or the air bomber he was called, the bomb aimer he took over. Guiding. He was guiding the plane then so he was telling the pilot, ‘Left. Left. Right. Right.’ whatever, to get, get the bomb, the bombsight so that it was directly in front of the target. And then when you got the bombsight steady at all you could visualise it. You could see that from the nose of the plane and once you got just before, just before the target you dropped your bombs. So as they were going down they were going that way as well and they hit the target hopefully. And then I always said, ‘Bombs gone. Let’s go.’ The pilot turned around and off we went back.
BW: You had to keep the aircraft straight and level.
JFL: Oh, very straight. Yeah. For a mile or so.
BW: Yeah. After you’d dropped the bombs.
JFL: Going on to the target. Yeah. Yeah. A Lot of anti-aircraft coming up as well. An awful lot. We were peppered with anti-aircraft. And I saw two or three of our own bombers, Fokke Wolf 190s, you know the German fighter planes, they were swarming around and I saw, I always remember two or three of our bombers were shot down. I saw them going down, and in one of them I think, a guy, a guy I was very friendly with and I saw him going down to be killed. Crashed. I always remember that. I knew it was. I could see which plane it was. It was a Halifax and he was in it. That was the end of him.
BW: Did you see any parachutes at all?
JFL: Oh yeah. The odd one or two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: That particular raid would have been detailed. That particular raid was to Braunschweig and that was in August.
JFL: Where was it?
BW: Braunschweig [pause] It was in August 1944.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: And it was a night raid.
JFL: Yeah. Well, most, most of them were night raids. Yeah. Of course —
BW: The, there were two sergeants in the aircraft you described who were killed. One whose name was Craig and the other Curphey. Do you know which of those two might have been your mate?
JFL: I’m not sure now. Very vague about it.
BW: Ok. I’m going to show you a diagram of the bomb aimer’s position in a Halifax. Does that bring back any memories?
[pause]
BW: It shows the position that you would have been in in the aircraft.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: You say laid down and looking out the Perspex nose.
JFL: Is the Perspex still here?
BW: Yes.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: And your control panel was on the left.
JFL: That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. So you used to lie down there actually ‘til a mile or so from the target. The air bomber more or less took over the plane. Guiding, guiding the pilot with, ‘Left. Left. Right. Left.’ Whatever. To make sure he was right on the target.
BW: Did you ever feel particularly vulnerable in that sort of position because you’re laid down, head practically out of the aircraft apart from the Perspex canopy in front? How, how did it feel to be in that position over a target?
JFL: Yeah. It did. Actually, it never, it never bothered me. I don’t know why. Used to be, you were busy guiding. Guiding the plane in to make sure you’re getting it right. ‘Left. Right.’ You just tell, tell the pilot move over to the left a bit or move over to the right a bit until you’re right over the target. And then just before you hit the target it’s bombs away, and you used to follow them right down. And nine times out of ten they hit the target. Mostly coastal targets. There was a lot of coastal targets. And then eventually it became routine.
BW: Did you ever have to tell the pilot to go around again to make a second run? Perhaps because there was smoke over the target or obscuring it. Did you have to make a second run at all?
JFL: No. I don’t think I ever had to do that. No. No. No. By then there was a lot of German fighters trying to get at us. They were all hovering all around. They did get quite a few but some of us were lucky.
BW: And could you see [pause] could you see the fighters around you? Could you make them out?
JFL: The German fighters?
BW: Yeah.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Or were you just able to see the gunfire?
JFL: No, I could see. Could see the fighters.
BW: And —
JFL: And once we’d dropped the bombs it was a case of turn around, put the nose down and get away. Get as much speed as you could to get away. Then we had, the rear gunner was very good. The mid-upper gunner was also very good. And you could see the German fighters trying to get a bead on us but our own, our own bombers, the machine gunners they kept them, kept the German planes off as much as they could. I did see one or two of our own boys going down. One, one bomber plane that went down, one of the guys in it was a friend. A good friend of mine. And I could see him, I couldn’t see him but he was in it and that was the end of him.
BW: Could you see the searchlights at all? Were you, were you ever actually what they called coned in searchlights? Were you picked out at all and locked on?
JFL: Yeah, you could. There were, there were plenty of searchlights from the Germans. They had encampments with machine guns and bomber guns and anti-aircraft guns and they were usually lit up. They didn’t do a lot of damage but they sent up enough to catch, used to be a lot of holes in the plane. Fortunately, didn’t get to the right place for them.
BW: And the searchlights were coloured differently. Did you see any blue searchlights at all?
JFL: Any — ?
BW: Blue searchlights.
JFL: Blue?
BW: Yeah.
JFL: I can’t remember to tell you the truth. I remember lots of searchlights but I don’t know about blue searchlights.
BW: The gunners would occasionally if they saw a light coming towards them or a fighter coming towards them would instruct the pilot to take evasive action or corkscrew. Did that ever happen with you?
JFL: I’ve no recollection of that. No. Not really.
BW: So you were quite lucky that you never got properly bounced by fighters.
JFL: Yeah. I could see fighters. Not, most, most of the, it was mostly night flying. We did go on to daylight flying again when the invasion took place with the Yanks invading the French coast to get the, to make a start on getting the Germans out. And we did a lot of, we used to go low flying over the, over the Channel but then zoom up and bomb the German army. It was all daylight because the Yanks, the Yanks and the Canadians and the British were all on their way over the English Channel to get rid of the Germans. They suffered. They suffered a lot of damage then too. Our job was to bomb the German guns. The big guns up on the cliffs which is what we did.
BW: And when you were low flying over France on the way in to the target during the daylight. Do you recall much of what you could see? Whether there were any vehicles or movements on the ground or anything like that?
JFL: On the Channel?
BW: On the French mainland.
JFL: Oh, the French coast.
BW: On the French mainland when you approached the target what kind of things could you see?
JFL: Well, the Germans were, they were retreating. You could see that, and you could see the, the Yanks and the Canadians coming over on small, small boats to attack the Germans on, on the beaches. We could see all that. Then of course we had to, we got so far we used to climb right up because they had a lot of big heavy guns at the top of the hills and they were causing damage so we went up quite high. Came down to bomb them to knock their guns out. And that’s how it was.
BW: You were also as a air bomber or bomb aimer as they called them.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: To and from the target you’d also be manning the front guns wouldn’t you?
JFL: I’m sorry?
BW: You would also be manning the front gun wouldn’t you? The nose gun.
JFL: Yeah. I could. Yeah, they did that too. Yeah. Used to use that. Yeah.
BW: And did you ever have cause to use it on the way in? Keep a fighter away or anything like that?
JFL: Not, not so much because we had a mid-upper gunner and a rear gunner of course so they did most of the shooting against the enemy.
BW: So most of your ops were over occupied France, and there were a number into Germany.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Would you say there was a noticeable difference between your targets in France and those in Germany?
[pause]
JFL: Well, the ones in France they were very, very military but when we went, when we flew to Germany there was a different sections of cities we had to bomb. A lot along the North Sea and mainly military targets. But that’s how it was.
BW: And were they quite long missions for you?
JFL: The night missions were very long. They were very long. And of course then it all changed when the Yanks came over. We did all daylight missions. And we, as the Germans were retreating we were flying during the day, bombing the Germans as, as they tried to get back to their own country. And there was pockets of British soldiers and Yankee soldiers that, they got cut off by the Germans. They were in big trouble and we were, had to go out to help them. I remember that. So —
BW: And were you bombing enemy troops?
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Fairly close to where the Allied lines were or —
JFL: That’s right. Yeah. Not far off. Yeah.
BW: And did, were you able to see the bombs land accurately?
JFL: Oh yes. We were quite low. Yeah.
BW: What sort of height would you think you were at?
JFL: Oh dear [pause] A thousand feet [pause] Over. Quite, quite low we were because we were. Yeah.
BW: And were there a lot of aircraft on those sorts of raids or was it just like a small number of aircraft from the squadron?
JFL: Yeah. There wasn’t a lot of raids. Not a lot of raids flying in it but as the Germans retreated we kept going in and, to try and stop them from getting back to their own Maginot, not the Maginot, that’s a French line, getting back to their own line. So we had to keep intercepting them and they had heavy guns all the way around everywhere they were and they did a bit of damage with those. But we got rid of a lot of the guns that the Germans were using, because the Yanks and the British Army and Canadian Army they were all coming in now to fight their way to the Maginot Line. And we helped out on that.
BW: So, on those sorts of raids I believe you flew on a couple of times in larger raids with Americans. A combined sort of RAF and American type raid. Did you see any difference in the way the Americans flew?
JFL: Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Sitting ducks. That’s how you can describe them. Sitting ducks. They flew in a straight line and they didn’t, they didn’t do any manoeuvring. Just kept flying straight. And the German fighters they had a, took a lot of, took a lot of the Americans down with the [pause] We flew individually. We didn’t fly as a squadron. We flew in between different heights. But the Americans came in perfect they were but they never, never altered their position and the German fighters really tore in to them. An awful lot of Yanks shot down.
BW: So the looser formation that the RAF used allowed them greater manoeuvrability if you were attacked, whereas the Americans —
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Didn’t do that.
JFL: They didn’t have that. Yeah. Of course when we flew at night we didn’t fly as, we flew individually in the dark. The British Air Force. The Americans when they, when they started night flying they flew as a squadron and they were easy targets for the German fighters.
BW: And when you got back to base what kind of things happened then? What sort of things would happen on the way back from the targets and then landing?
JFL: Well, you got, you’ve still got the German fighters chasing you, trying to get a bead on to you. I remember the very first op we were on. We were up and down all the way back so this particular German fighter he chased us all the way back to the Channel, the English Channel. And we had to manoeuvre up and down just to keep him, so that he couldn’t get a sight on us and as we got within half a mile of the Channel he gave up on it and turned around and went back to Germany, thank goodness. But —
BW: So you were chased all the way home.
JFL: Yeah. I was. Yeah. Yeah. We were quite, this was what we were doing all the way back so he couldn’t get a sight on us.
BW: And when you eventually did land what kind of things would happen then?
JFL: When we landed, when we got out the plane and came over to, the CO was there and there would be, we were interviewed for, they wanted to know what happened and the medical officer was on site in case anybody was, anybody was hurt. And the —
BW: And what were the debriefings like? Did they give you a good interrogation about what you’d seen?
JFL: Yeah. A debriefing. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. They wanted to know various things. How it went and what happened. And the man with a collar. He was always there for, we had to, we had to have a prayer for safe landing. He gave us a prayer. We were very, very lucky I think. Very lucky.
BW: When you got back to your billets were you accommodated as crews altogether, or were you kept as say bomb aimers in one hut and flight engineers in another hut or did you all stay together as a crew?
JFL: We were more or less as a crew. Yeah. Yeah. Well, most, most of the, most of the flights up until the invasion when the Yanks came it was all night flying and we used to get back about 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning. And by then of course we were very tired. So after being interviewed by [pause] whoever we went to bed.
BW: Did you ever get a chance to socialise much as a crew? Were there events on at the base and dances and things?
JFL: Yeah. There was the odd one or two dances. Yeah. But unfortunately I had two left feet. At the time. My wife was a very good dancer so eventually when I became a civilian I picked up on the dancing and I did alright but during the war we used to, there was always dances going on and we used to go and mainly just stood there looking at them and watching it. That’s all.
BW: And you flew a few raids with 102 Squadron, and then you were transferred to 462 Squadron.
JFL: Yeah. That sounds about, yeah 462.
BW: And there was one of those where, one of those sorties or ops where you came back and the aircraft went off the runway.
JFL: Yes. It left. It left the runway [laughs]
BW: Was this on, was this on landing?
JFL: The brakes. I think the brakes must have gone. The brakes went on it so we left the runway at, we were doing almost a hundred miles an hour when we left the runway and we went over quite a few fields bumpety bumpety bumpety. And eventually when the pilot, he was, he’d given up. It was too much for him. So I was sat beside him. I just kept the plane straight and then —
BW: So the pilot bottled it and you took over the controls.
JFL: Yeah. Well, just I was steering it. Yeah. Yeah. And then when we got to, over two or three fields I turned the plane around and it stopped dead because we didn’t know what was going to happen otherwise because it was still moving at a good pace. Anyway, I pulled the wheel around and it stopped. And that was it. And then the fire, the fire people came over to make sure the plane wasn’t on fire.
BW: I mean if it’s gone over two or three fields.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Off the end of the runway. That’s some fair distance.
JFL: Yeah. It was a fair distance. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Did you still have any bombs on board or anything like that?
JFL: No. We had, I don’t think we had anything on board. I think we got rid of everything. Yeah.
BW: Because there was an instance in your logbook where you noted that you were loaded with the bombs on board. Landed with the bomb load. But obviously not on that occasion.
JFL: Yeah. I’m trying to remember. I know [pause] One. We were over Germany but we’d bombed the target, but one of the bombs was, was hung up. It hadn’t dropped and it was on the plane with us and of course you daren’t land with it. It would have blown us all up. So Joe, I climbed, I climbed down and got outside the plane, turned the trap door and I was outside. I managed to release the bomb and it went down and it landed. I could see where it landed. I was outside the plane and I could see where the bomb landed. Right in a German village. That wasn’t very nice. We couldn’t have landed with the bomb because it would have exploded, exploded on landing. We had to get rid of it. And the engineer, our engineer he wouldn’t go and do it. He should have done it really. It was his job. But he wasn’t going outside the plane to do it. I was at a high field so I never gave it a thought. I said, ‘I’ll go down.’ I went down, got through the trap door, I was outside and —
BW: This was in the bomb bay though wasn’t it with the bomb bay open?
JFL: Yeah. Yeah.
BW: Yeah.
JFL: Yeah. I managed to release the bomb. I can’t remember the details now and I followed it down and it, there was like a German village. It must have blown an awful lot of houses up. It was quite a big bomb. So I climbed back up again.
BW: And that’s, that must have been, I’m assuming that, that was after the target and this particular bomb had not released. So you’re still over Germany heading on the way home.
JFL: That’s right.
BW: That’s when you had to go down into the bomb bay.
JFL: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: To sort this out.
JFL: Yeah. There was just this one bomb. I can’t remember how we knew. But we all knew we had to get rid of it. We couldn’t, we couldn’t land.
BW: And from moving from 462 Squadron you then went up to Leuchars in Scotland.
JFL: That’s right. Yeah.
BW: To join [pause] the Air Sea Rescue Unit there. Is that right?
JFL: That’s right. Just for a short period. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: And what do you, what do you recall of that? That period.
JFL: Not a lot really because it was very peaceful.
BW: It would be quite a change from where you had been before.
JFL: We went, there was two or three of us. We went out with the Air Sea Rescue Teams, and we were flying around, not flying, moving around the North Sea. And we didn’t have any incidents that I can recall.
BW: So how did you then come to leave the RAF?
JFL: Leave?
BW: Yeah. You left in 1946.
JFL: Yeah. That’s right.
BW: Were you just demobbed or were you offered the chance to stay in?
JFL: I think we may have been but there was also demobbing, so I think I’d had enough for four or five years. I can’t remember how. So I was very fortunate.
BW: So when, do you recall how you met Jean? Your wife. Was that during the war or was it after?
JFL: No. It was during the war. All aircrew from all over the world — Australia, everywhere, south, South Africa. They all came to Heaton, Heaton Park. Aircrew. Potential aircrew. And that’s where of course I was. Heaton Park. And this friend I had made, he was, he was just walking down to what they called Sedgley Park. That’s not far from here. He was billeted in this particular house. They’d taken over a lot of houses and they had to let [pause] let them, give them up, they had to give them a bedroom. They’d no choice. The house keeper. I just said I’d walk, walk down with him for a walk and the, when we got to the house which wasn’t, not that far, there’s the daughter of the person from the house she came out. She was speaking. She had already met him because he was, he was billeted in their house. And the next thing I know this other girl came along and she was a friend of this first girl. And it was Jean. Do you remember Jean?
BW: And so —
JFL: She doesn’t remember.
BW: You married I believe in, I believe you married in 1948.
JFL: I think so. Yeah.
BW: And what, what other occupations did you have after, after the war?
JFL: Well, I wasn’t, I wasn’t trained for anything. I bought the, there was a [pause] it was a shop and it sold magazines, books, cigarettes, that type of shop it was.
JL: Yeah. Like [unclear]
JFL: Sorry
JL: Do you remember?
JFL: What?
JL: The newspaper. The wholesaler.
JFL: Jean. Jean’s father, who was a business man he, he bought the good will of the shop for me. Which was very very nice. He was a [pause] he had a biscuit factory.
BW: And he had a biscuit factory in —
JFL: He did. Yeah. In Manchester.
BW: Yeah.
JFL: He was a very clever guy. Yeah. He built all his own machinery for making biscuits. He did. He did it all. And he did, he was quite wealthy. And he got me started on the retail shop and I had that type of business ever since.
BW: And how long were you in the retail trade for?
JFL: I’ve got a, it must have been, I was in my seventies when I gave it up. I never had a trade.
BW: And now that we’re looking at commemorations for aircrew of Bomber Command how do you think that’s been. Is it something you welcome?
JFL: What was that?
BW: Now that we’re having the commemorations for Bomber Command and such like and there are now Memorials and such like being built to them how do you, how do you feel about that?
JFL: Yeah. I think I quite like that. Yeah. Yeah.
BW: I suppose it’s about time really isn’t it?
JFL: Sorry?
BW: I suppose it’s about time.
JFL: It’s —?
BW: It’s about time.
JFL: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s my logbook over there is it?
BW: Yeah.
JFL: Yeah. I thought I’d brought it in for you.
BW: Well, what I’ll do is I’ll end the interview there and I’ll look to photograph your logbook as well.
JFL: Right.
BW: But I just want to say that, you know on behalf of the Bomber Command Centre to thank you very much for your time and for your recollections. It’s been great to interview you.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: And very helpful for the Centre so thank you.
JFL: Oh, you’re welcome. Yeah.
[recording paused]
JFL: Ontario. About fifty miles from Toronto. That’s right. I come from Toronto.
GBD: Ok. Yeah.
JFL: And that’s where we did the flying.
JL: You went to Jasper Park.
JFL: Sorry?
JL: That’s where you trained. That’s where you trained [unclear] carry on.
GBD: You trained at Jasper Park.
JFL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
GBD: You won a special award for accurate bomb aiming. You were given an award for accurate bomb aiming.
JFL: Yeah. I got something for bombing. Yeah. I tried, I tried to go solo to be a pilot but yeah, they were very fussy about it.
BW: So you originally wanted to be a pilot.
JFL: Yeah. That’s what I asked for. So what I’d be, while I was being trained I didn’t quite make the grade for being a pilot. I went solo once. That was very brave of me [laughs] going solo. I managed to land a Tiger Moth.
GBD: Right. That’s good.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: Which places do you remember on your bombing missions over Europe by name? Which, off the top of your head which bases can you remember flying to on operations?
JFL: Oh. The German city on the [pause] it’s, it was a coastal town.
BW: Kiel.
JFL: Kiel. You got it in one. Yeah. I think so. Did a lot of bombs there. A lot of bombing.
GBD: And I remember you told me as well that you were bombing in the Villers-Bocage in France.
JFL: Pardon?
GBD: The Villers-Bocage in France.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: When the, when the allied troops were pinned down by the Germans in the battle of the hedgerows around there.
JFL: Oh yeah. That’s right.
GBD: You guys were sent to bomb Villers-Bocage as well.
JFL: Yeah. Yeah. Then we had to stop the, when the German army was in retreat, when the allies, the Yanks and the Canadians invaded across the Channel they eventually pushed the Germans back so it was our job to stop them. Stop the German army from getting to the bridge before they could all go over. Then they would have blown the bridge up and we couldn’t have got at them so we had to stop them doing that. Which we did do.
GBD: Because you were active around Falaise as well I think I remember you saying. Around Falaise Gap as the German armies are trying to escape out there.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: You hit them very heavily there as well.
JFL: Yeah. A bit vague.
BW: Can you remember any other places at all where you saw action? Anywhere by name that might be of interest to anyone listening.
JFL: Well, I did a lot of night bombing of course. That’s what I did that for two or three years. Night bombing.
JL: Do you know, Guy —
GBD: Hmmn?
JL: We ended up with five shops.
BW: I’m going to show you this picture of a bomb aimer. Does that look like the sort of position and place in the aircraft you’d be? Does anything about that jog your memory?
JFL: Is it, is it the nose of the aircraft and he’s lying down?
GBD: Do you want to borrow these?
JFL: No [laughs] it’s alright.
GBD: Are you sure?
JFL: Yeah. Yeah.
BW: You’ve got your instrument panel, your control panel to one side, and the bomb release button in the other.
JFL: Yeah. Well, the release button was there. When we got, when I got in the nose of the plane and it was all set up. It was quite sophisticated as well. Very accurate. I remember something about this. I’m not sure what it was now.
GBD: Does that look like the position you were in though when you were — does that look similar to the position you were in?
JFL: Yeah. It was lying flat.
GBD: Right.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Because it was said that the bombing was often inaccurate. But from your recollections and what you’re saying is that the equipment you had and from what you could see the bombing was accurate.
JFL: Oh, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Because just had to, well once you got down you got down a mile or so from the target. You got on to your stomach and you were lying flat and you were just telling, telling the pilot to go, ‘Left. Right.’ Whatever. Port. Starboard. Steady. And you’d just got to go steady until you got the what do you call it?
BW: The cross hairs?
JFL: They bombsight. Yeah. God. It was the very latest one and it was very accurate and you were looking through the bombsight and telling the pilot to do what he has to do. Left. Right. Whatever. And then when you get to the target the right position you pressed the button, the bombs go down and theoretically you should hit the target straight on which most of them did. But —
BW: Did you get any feedback or instructions say from a Master Bomber who might have been a Pathfinder aircraft or were they instructing you to bomb say on flares?
JFL: Daylight flying there was a Pathfinder. There was a, one in charge and you followed him but we didn’t do that. That’s what the Yanks did. Most of my bombing was night bombing and it was individual. The planes were all individuals. We were going to the same target but there was no formation or anything. But then we did some, went on to daylight flying with the, as it got well into the war we used to fly, fly with the Yanks. They —
[pause]
GBD: Did you not use any Pathfinders for your night time bombing? Was there not any kind of help from them on certain targets?
JFL: Yeah. There was, the Pathfinders. They went in first. They dropped their bombs which lit up the target and as you got close to it you could see the target then because there was a lot of fire going on. And the Pathfinders did a good job because they were, they had to circle around the city you know and the German fighters were there waiting for them and they still had to sit, circle round. They couldn’t do much else. So it was dangerous. A very dangerous job they had. The Pathfinders.
GBD: Absolutely.
JFL: Yeah. They lit up the towns or city for us so we had a target to see.
GBD: Got you.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: And do you have any other specific recollections of anything quite significant that happened? Certain incidents or certain strong memories about a particular thing that happened during any of your missions that you can share with us?
JFL: I can’t. I’d have to think about it now. It’s long ago.
GBD: Does anything stand out? Any particular memory of anything that happened?
JFL: Well, each, each bombing trip was much the same as the previous one. You were still very alert all the time. Couldn’t relax. You were watching for German fighters. There was always German fighters about.
GBD: Right. And you were saying your aircraft was peppered with holes. A lot of it.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: So you must have come under direct attack.
JFL: Yeah. Yeah. They came in sideways and underneath you, and over the top of you.
GBD: So that must have been very frightening.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: For someone young. Of your age. All aircrews obviously. To experience that.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: What was that like when you were under attack from German aircraft?
JFL: The two, two machine gunners in our plane, Halifax they, they did their best to keep them off. So the Germans fighters couldn’t get too close because we had two [pause] two gunners on the plane, the tail end and the mid-upper gunner. And they did good work keeping the German fighters at a distance. They couldn’t come too close. They’d get machine gunned.
GBD: They must have done a very good job because you’re still sat with us here all these years later.
JFL: Yeah. Yeah.
GBD: How do you feel to have actually survived forty six missions because that’s quite something? Forty six ops.
JFL: Well —
GBD: Some didn’t survive more than five. Many didn’t survive more than ten.
JFL: I think when you’re a youngster it doesn’t bother you too much.
GBD: But looking back now.
JFL: Sorry?
GBD: Looking back now how does that, any thoughts about that? How do you feel of all those operations and you saw your friends going down?
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: But you were very lucky.
JFL: Yeah.
GBD: Because I know Remembrance means a lot to you.
JFL: Yeah. I saw a good friend of mine. He was, he went down. That was, that was very upsetting but you seemed to take it in your stride. I don’t know. There were some, a lot of, a lot of aircrew refused to fly. Quite a lot of aircrew.
BW: Why did they, why did they refuse to fly?
JFL: When they saw the targets they wouldn’t go. And they were, they were put in the, in the station prison if they didn’t fly. I don’t remember what happened to them but they were locked up in the prison if they, if they, if they refused to fly. When they’d seen where the target was they wouldn’t go.
BW: So if you’re in the briefing room and the popular view of the briefing room is a large hall with a lot of young aircrew.
JFL: Yeah.
BW: Sat there waiting for the CO to brief for the target for tonight, if you like. And the curtain goes back. How did the guys make it known that they didn’t want to fly? I’m assuming they didn’t just get up and walk out but what?
JFL: Well, they probably waited until, until it was finished with. Then instead of going back to their bedroom or whatever you’d like to call it they went to the guardroom and gave themselves up to be locked up. And that took some doing as well. There was always three or four of them, but they just wouldn’t fly. So —
BW: So not necessarily the whole crew. Just maybe three or four from a crew.
JFL: Oh yeah. It could be, not necessarily the same crew.
BW: Ok.
JFL: Just very nervous. It was unfortunate.
BW: And was anything ever said about what would happen? Did for example the CO make any, or give any orders about guys who didn’t want to fly.
JFL: Do you know I’m a bit vague on that now. I always remember two or three guys which I knew they, they gave themselves up. They went to the guardhouse and asked to be locked up there. They wouldn’t fly. That took, that took some doing.
BW: But none of your guys. None of the guys in your crew.
JFL: No.
BW: Ever did that.
JFL: Not in our lot. No. No. I got in the line up to volunteer to go over to India.
GBD: Oh yeah.
JFL: To fly over there to bomb the Japs.
GBD: Ok.
BW: I think that was called Tiger Force wasn’t it?
JFL: That sounds familiar. Yeah. But I was, there must have been about ten or twelve of us in a line up just waiting to give our name and whatever and halfway, halfway through the line-up it came over the radio. The Japs had surrendered.
GBD: Ah yes.
JFL: So —
GBD: That was that.
JFL: No point. Didn’t have to go.
GBD: Right. Lucky you.
JFL: Yeah. Well, I volunteered to go because I was still in the Air Force but it, it never happened. Fortunately the Japs surrendered. Singapore.
GBD: And you ended up as a warrant officer.
JFL: Sorry?
GBD: You ended up as a warrant officer.
JFL: Yeah. Yeah.
GBD: So that’s good. You did quite well there. Yeah.
JFL: Yeah. I was certainly glad they surrendered.
GBD: So you didn’t have to —
[recording paused]
JFL: We were still in Germany. The next thing I know the nose of the plane, a shell had come right through it and I was stood halfway down the plane on the right hand starboard side. This German shell came through and just caught my ear and then hit the, hit the side of the plane. I’ve still got, I’ve got the marks here.
GBD: Wow. You were very lucky then.
JFL: Yeah. It just cut my ear off a little on one side. Yeah. It’s still, it’s still there to remind me.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with James Ferguson Latimer
Creator
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Brian Wright
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-09-28
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ALatimerJF190928, PLatimerJF1903
Format
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01:21:46 audio recording
Language
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eng
Spatial Coverage
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Canada
France
Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
England--Manchester
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Germany
Germany--Braunschweig
England--Lancashire
Description
An account of the resource
James Ferguson Latimer was born in Edinburgh. His family emigrated to Canada when he was young but moved back to Scotland in 1939. He recalls witnessing a German U-boat torpedo a ship as they sailed back home. Latimer joined the air force and completed basic training at RAF Heaton Park, initially hoping to be a pilot, but qualified as a bomb aimer. He trained on Wellingtons, before converting to Halifax. Latimer was stationed with 102 squadron, based at RAF Pocklington, and 462 squadron, completing 46 operations in total. He details his duty as the bomb aimer during operations, the differing flying tactics of British and American forces, and recollects a night-time operation in August 1944, where he observed a close friend’s plane crash over Braunschweig. He also describes low flying over the English Channel and bombing the German army to support D-Day. Latimer recollects a number of eventful operations including, taking control of the steering when the aircraft left the runway and the pilot lost his nerve, and volunteering to climb out of the aircraft while flying over Germany to release a bomb that had not dropped properly. After completing his operations, he recalls a posting at an Air Sea Rescue Unit in Scotland. Latimer left the RAF in 1946 as a warrant officer, married his wife in 1948, and opened a shop.
Contributor
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Tilly Foster
Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1944-08
1946
1948
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
102 Squadron
462 Squadron
air sea rescue
aircrew
bomb aimer
bombing
Fw 190
Halifax
military service conditions
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
RAF Pocklington
shot down
submarine
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1700/33142/MElliottJD19200425-210211-01.1.pdf
6660bcb55ce3271637d50dcaab4b52c6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Elliott, John Dale
J D Elliott
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. A memoir written by Flight Lieutenant John Elliott (b.1920, J20710 Royal Canadian Air Force) and 'The LOG' . He flew operations as a navigator with 428 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Gail Elliott and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-12-10
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Elliott, JD
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
THE LOG
STALAG LUFT III
BELARIA SAGAN
Editor :
SQUADRON LEADER BRYCE COUSENS, R.A.F.
1939 1945
Illustrations and Marginal Sketches :
FLYING OFFICER TERENCE ENTRACT, R.A.F.V.R.
Chief Additional Contributors:
SQUADRON LEADER J. PRESTRIDGE, R.A.F.V.R. (F/O. PEPYS)
FLIGHT LIEUEENANT ROGER DE WEVER, ROYAL BELGIAN AIR FORCE (MILITARY SUPPLEMENTS)
(I)
[Page Break]
R.A.F. OFFICER PRISONERS OF WAR ASSEMBLING FOR COUNTING ON A WINTER MORNING.
[Page Break]
FOREWORD
This book was originally to be printed and distributed shortly after our return from Germany in the summer of 2945. It was impossible to do so owning to paper shortages and other difficulties of which most subscribers will be aware. I am sorry there has been this delay but hope, nevertheless, that you will be pleased to receive your copy and that it will revive memories of some of the happier moments in a life that now seem far distant and much less unpleasant in retrospect.
You will notice that there are very few copies of the “LOG” in the book, owing to the fact that I divided the copy during the 1945 march and the other half was lost by the Officer who kindly offered to carry it to Luckenwalde. I have endeavoured to fill the gap by a short account of the march, from Sagan to Luckenwalde, and trust you will agree with my summary of that experience.
To those who were not Prisoners of War I hasten to explain that this book has not been published because of any supposed literary or historical merit but purely as a tangible souvenir to remind us of some of the joys, hopes, sorrows or disappointments which made up our days in Stalag Luft III: as such it may interest you.
I am sure that I shall be expressing the feelings of all my companions at Belaria in dedicating this book to the memory of those fifty-one brother officers murdered by the Germans after escaping in 1944. A facsimile of the front page of the “LOG” on that occasion, together with the Memorial Sheet, is published on the following pages.
BRYCE COUSENS
“THE EDITOR”
August 1947.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 19th April, 1944
In Memoriam
THE CAMP WILL HAVE BEEN SHOCKED TO HEAR OF THE DEATH OF *FORTY-ONE OF OUR COMRADES WHO DIED RECENTLY IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THEIR DUTY. AS A MARK OF OUR ESTEEM, AFFECTION AND RESPECT, IT HAS BEEN DECIDED THAT ALL ENTERTAINMENTS WILL CEASE UNTIL A MEMORIAL SERVICE HAS BEEN HELD.
THIS SERVICE WILL TAKE THE FORM OF A PARADE SERVICE FOR THE ENTIRE CAMP AND WILL BE HELD ON THE SPORTS GROUND IMMEDIATELY AFTER MORNING APPELL ON THURSDAY, 13TH APRIL; OR, IF WET, AFTER THE FIRST FINE APPELL SUBSEQUENTLY.
“They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.”
SENIOR BRITISH OFFICER
*This tragic figure was subsequently learnt to be fifty-one. – ED.
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Memorial Service
TO THOSE OFFICERS SHOT AFTER ESCAPING FROM STALAG LUFT III,
MARCH, 1944
HYMN
O God, our help in ages past,
Our hope for years to come,
Our shelter from the stormy blast
And our eternal home.
Beneath the shadow of thy throne,
They saints have dwelt secure,
Sufficient in thine arm alone
And our defence is sure.
Before the hills in order stood,
Our earth received her frame,
From everlasting thou art God,
To endless years the same.
A thousand ages in thy sight,
Are like an evening gone,
Short as the watch that ends the night,
Before the rising sun.
Time, like an ever rolling stream,
Bears all it’s sons away,
They fly forgotten as a dream,
Dies at the opening day.
O God, our help in ages past,
Our hope for years to come,
Our shelter from the stormy blast
And our eternal home.
PRAYER – PSALM 23
The Lord is my shepherd, therefore can I lack nothing,
He shall feed me in green pastures and lead me forth besides the water of comfort.
He shall convert my soul; and bring me forth in the paths or righteousness for his name’s sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for thou art with me: thy rod and thy staff comfort me
Thou shalt prepare a table before me, against them that troubles me; thou hast anointed
My head with oil, and my cup shall be full.
But thy loving kindness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Glory be to the Father…….
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PRAYER
Minister: May the souls of the faithful, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.
Congregation: Rest eternal grant unto them, O Lord : and let light perpetual shine upon them.
PRAYERS
THE LESSON
ADDRESS
HYMN
God of our father, known of old,
Lord of our far flung battle line,
Beneath whose awful hand we hold
Dominion over palm and pine.
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
LEST WE FORGET, LEST WE FORGET.
The tumult and the shouting dies,
The captain and the kings depart,
Still stands thine ancient sacrifice,
An ancient and contrite heart.
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
LEAT WE FORGET, LEST WE FORGET.
If, drunk with sight if power, we loose
Wild tongues that have not thee in awe,
Such boasting as the Gentiles use,
Or lesser breeds without the law,
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
LEST WE FORGET, LEST WE FORGET.
For heathen heart that puts her trust
In reeking tube and iron shard,
All valiant dust that builds on dust,
And guarding calls not thee to guard.
For frantic boast and foolish word
Thy mercy on they people, Lord:
THE GRACE
LAST POST
REVEILLE
THE NATIONAL ANTHEM
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THE LOG
BELARIA 22nd, May, 1944
NUMBER SEVENTEEN
EDITORIAL
An interesting week – two new purges and the consequent news from home. Things over there would not appear to have changed much in the last year, except that such commodities as oranges, lemons, Americans and eggs are more plentiful then they were. In the camp there has been little of note except the great popularity of the new sports field. This will undoubtedly increase as the weather improves.
The Service Education Scheme has also proved very –popular – in fact over seven hundred and fifty names have been taken on the rolls of the seven subjects offered. The Senior British Officer will open the series today (22nd) with a lecture on the “History of the Royal Air Force.” All those who have enrolled are invited. The promoters of the scheme regret that they cannot invite the whole camp to such an interesting lecture but the space in the wash house next to the Chapel is not large enough. Incidentally, this building is now out of bounds as a wash house at all hours. Will you please assist by observing this rule?
We are all looking forward to “Arsenic and Old Lace” and one who was privileged to see the dress rehearsal has promised us first-class entertainment. An immense amount of work has been put into the production and a novelty is introduced in that the producer and the Cast provided their own back room boys for design and construction of the set.
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DAY BY DAY
Monday 22nd May
1830 hours –“Arsenic and Old Lace” Theatre.
Tuesday, 23rd May
Wednesday, 24th May } 1830 “Arsenic and Old Lace” Camp Theatre
Thursday, 25th May
Friday, 26th May
Sunday 28th May, (Whit Sunday)
0930 hours – Holy Communion, Chapel.
1115 hours – Morning Service, Theatre.
Hymns : “Our Blest Redeemer”
“Gracious Spirit, Holy Ghost”
“Come, Holy Ghost our Souls Inspire”
1825 hours – Evening Service, Chapel.
1930 hours – “The 1936-38 British Antarctic Expedition” by Corporal M. Walker.
…
A letter recently received states that Professor Felix Ehrenhaft, of New York claims to have established the existence of currents of magnetism flowing like electricity. Other researchers however, are dubious if his claims; as he had previously claimed to have proved the existence of charges smaller than the electron, a discovered which turned out to be invalid.
GREEN FINGERS
A further supply of English seeds arrived last week from Sagan. They consist, mainly, of types of vegetable seeds already distributed. All the cucumber, celery, parsley, dwarf beans and radish have been issued through block gardening officers to whom anyone requiring more seed should apply.
CUMCUMBER (Ridge). The principal requirements for cucumber are an abundance of organic matter with moderate moisture. In dry weather they must be kept well watered, or they will be attacked by Red Spider. The seed should be planted in groups of three, about 18 inches apart. If convenient, it
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is better to raise them indoors; sowing now and transplanting outside in June. Seed should not be planted in the open till the end of May.
PARSLEY. Seed can be planted outside immediately. The ground must be deeply dug. Parsley makes and excellent boarder to the vegetable plot. Seeds must be sown very thinly and covered with ½ inch of soil.
DWARF BEAN. Sow singly, 6 inches apart, covering with two inches of soil. This bean likes moist soil in a sheltered place. The fair period of germination is about 10 days.
We are trying to get a supply of string for tying up peas, if we success it will be distributed to blocks.
…
A letter received here and dated 26th March says that all next of kin have been advised that Air Mail to P.O.W. will be stopped w.e.f. 1st April, 1944.
…
The cheese ration has been reduced, at home from four to two ounces.
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CIRCUMSTANCES ALTER CASES
Stone walls do not a prison make,
Nor iron bars a cage;
Now that’s what Colonel Lovelace said
When Cromwell in a rage,
Committed him to prison for
A rather lengthy stay.
He, to his sweet Althea wrote
That it was quite O.K.
He didn’t mind as long as he
Was master of his soul
And left alone with ink and pen,
Her virtues to extol.
It would be nice if we could have
Friend Lovelace with us now,
A “Kriegsgefangener” today,
He’d change his tune. And how!
If Tommy-guns, barb-wires and guards
Are not an implication
That we are in prison, they’re
A DAMN FINE IMITATION!
BEHIND THE SCENES
Many hours of hard work have been out in on the “Arsenic and Old Lace” Set, and the final results should be delightful to the audience as it as it has been to the back room boys. However, you will be able to judge for yourselves as the play starts a five nights run tonight. As a play, it is easy to understand why it has enjoyed such as very long run in London and New York. Finally, as a point of interest, the monstrous character in the play, which was played by Boris Karloff for a year or so in New York is now played by the somewhat faded movie director Erich Von Stronheim.
The band will play during intervals. The overture, which is arranged by Leonard Whiteley, is snappy if a little bizarre.
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The band are also working on rehearsals with the revue music, all of which are new compositions. The title of the revue is taken from one of F/O Ryders numbers – “Give us the Air” – F/Lt. Hill and W/O Lawrence are now satisfied that the chorus are in absolute precision and that reinforcement work on the foundations will be quite unnecessary.
…
The Prisoner of War Fund shop in Cirencester, Glos, took over £900 0s. 0d. in December of last year.
Members of the Canadian Forces, whose medical category is C3 or below are being discharged. No compensation or gratuity is being paid.
…
Colonel Knox, U.S. Navy Secretary, who died recently, left an estate valued at 2,000,000 dollars.
V.B.
THE DIARY OF P/O PEPYS, P.O.W. XV.II.
Tuesday, 15th May. A.D. 1644
BELARIA
Can at last out pen to paper as the alcoholic vapours have left me: never before in this life was I so troubled, but not I alone, for I can clearly recollect a short man with twinkling eyes and round face who, as Adjutant, did hold the right hand of My Lord the Group Captain and trip a pretty measure, perchance by accident; see how the madness spreads for the Editor of the LOG, a gaunt man, well versed in navigation, did roll erratically to his room, and many more besides. ‘Tis whispered even that my Lord Parselle and Tuck did sleep uneasy. But enough that it did signal the German fears that our invasion was nigh upon them; still, it has not come yet, though hope runs high. This day seems suspicious by its multum in parvo; our guarded opening play by a search in Parselle Place, followed quickly by the cessation of water supply for the morning. But this did not bother many, as we all queued, like women at a table sale, for our parole cards, which will simplify the
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manner of entering the sports field; though the spectators are few and they are ordered to watch the play and not the Reich maidens without. After noon I did watch one wretched guard, on the road, who was charging his musket, and even as he did so it exploded in his hands, the shot travelling fast towards Sagan. But how astonished he looked and quite embarrassed by his exhibition.
Thursday, 18th May
Oh! dismal day, nearly continuous rain and grey skies kept us confined to our quarters. The only happy ones amongst us were the ten newcomers, who arrived last night. They brought little news, though one, at least, left England only a few days ago; in fact, he was so new that he asked an elderly prisoner where the Gentleman’s Lavatory was – to receive the suave reply: “There’s no Gentleman’s Lavatory here – We all use the Abort.”
Tonight we hear that Casino is on our hands – And so to bed, pleased that the Brown jobs have got their finger out.
…
Prime Minster de Valera opened his election campaign last Saturday in in [sic] Co. Clare. He declared that the neutrality question had nothing to so with the poll, which should decide purely internal issues, General Richard Mulcahy, Leader of the Opposition, echoed de Valera’s words in his opening speech in Cork, saying that the result of the election was purely domestic consequence. K.Z.
…
Last Friday the Stockholm Police confiscated 134 kilogrammes of gold, it was found in a house in the city. The origin of this gold has not, as yet, been announced. D. Ang.
…
“….. despite the Badoglio betrayal which was the cause of all our reverses, from Stalingrad to Tarnopol…” (From an article buy D. Ley) D. Ang.
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England has directed an appeal to Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria and Finland to withdraw from Germany’s war and to make their contributions to the coming Allied victory. B.B.Z.
…
By the provisions of the “Statute for the Safeguarding of Marriages, Families and Motherhood,” the penalty of abortion has been reinforced, with the effect that the death sentence is now applicable in certain cases. Heinrich Schulz has already been sentences and executed under this order, B.B.Z
…
A Squadron Leader has suffered at the fangs of the “Lodgers” in Block I. We are reliably informed, however, that there is no cause for serious alarm. It was a very senior bug.
BAND AND MUSIC NOTES
After the success of the bands, “new music” for “Hay Fever,” we are following the same lines for the interval music for “Arsenic and Old Lace.” We are delighted by the ovation we received after playing the old timers in a new style and shall, therefore, continue in that style.
Two days ago the bass fiddle was completely wrecked; it has been seen lying on a shelf in the band room. This is a loss that deals the orchestra a hard blow; and, whilst it is assumed that the occurrence was an accident, we deplore the necessity for having to store such instruments in an insecure spot. This was entirely due to the threat of the casual onlooker who has no business in the theatre but insists on playing every instrument in sight. Several instruments have been damaged in this manner and feeling in the band is running high. * Made in 1844!
…
The largest head seen in the district of Armstrong has recently fallen to the gun of Herbert Bannister, who brought down a 48 point deer, (Armstrong is in B.C.).
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IN THE LIBRARY NOW
ANTIC HAY. By Aldous Huxley.
Mr. Huxley’s novels are a mixture of the laboratory and lecturer’s dais. He takes a collection of characters, experiments with them and then uses them to expound his theories on life.
Antic Hay has no plot to speak of, it is a loosely connected series of incidents which show a number of people under various circumstances, their reactions are closely studied and analysed. They are artificial characters living on a world which is a laboratory approximation to reality. Their conversation is intelligent and witty; they discuss a number of subjects and propound Mr. Huxley’s theories in delightful polished dialogue.
A charming display of wit and erudition, with a quiet vein of satire running through it; intended to convey, apparently a suggestion of the utter futility of life.
…Written in the 1860’s :-
“The Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge presents his compliments to the Directors of the Eastern Countries Railway and begs to inform them the he has learnt with regret that it is the intention of the Eastern Counties Railway to run excursion trains to Cambridge on the Lord’s Day with the object of attracting foreigners and undesirable characters to the University of Cambridge on that sacred day,
The Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge wishes to point out to the Director of the Eastern Counties Railway that such a proceeding would be as displeasing to Almighty God as it would be to the Vice-Chancellor or the University of Cambridge.”
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SPORTS NOTES
SPORTS’ EQUIPMENT. (Soccer). We have sufficient shirts, boots and jerseys to equip two teams, but it quite obvious that if the equipment is used for every match, it will not last very long, therefore only those playing in the First League or other equally important matched will be issued with this equipment. Second League players will be issued with soccer boots only and will play, as at present in whites or colours.
If more kit arrives this arrangement will be modified. We have a reasonable stock of soccer balls in spite of the wear and tear on the small pitch.
(Rugby). Balls are the main problem and the soft shoes a secondary, but important . As regards the balls, apart from the two shapeless ones in use at the moment, we have a new practice ball and one “puntabout”. As a last resort I have four new American footballs. Urgent demands have gone on for standard rugger balls and I hope that some will arrive in the near future.
The shorts and coloured shirts will be worn in all important games and boots will be supplied for the forwards and full-backs.
(Hockey). The 36 hockey sticks which arrived recently are of very poor quality and it is necessary to keep the number of games down to the present figure in order to keep the game going as long as possible, There will be three games every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday and four per day for the rest of the week. No sticks will be issued for unorganised practice, I hope that hockey enthusiasts will appreciate and understand the position. These are the first sticks to appear in 2 ½ years and may well be the last. Equipment is on order and, before long, we may be able to have full games on the sports field.
(Baseball). We have a good supply of balls at the moment, three baseball bats and twenty softball bats, We are very short of mitts and gloves, but can expect no help from Carlswalde, who are equally short,
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Baseball uniforms are coming through now, compromising shirts, trousers and shoes and we are first on the list for the next consignment,
We have a good stock of volley balls and teniquoit rings, but are short of basket balls. No fencing masks have arrived yet, so instruction in still impossible.
The inter-block soccer league starts on Monday 22nd – weather permitting. Block 3 has combined with Block 4, and 1st and 2nd League teams will be fielded by the combination and all other blocks. Various games of general interest will be arranged. An international series – Officers v. N.C.O.’s, etc., etc.- and it is hoped that many more spectators will be on the touchline by the time the series begins.
After a number of practice games of Rugger, it was decided to open the season with a Block Knockout Competition. The fist games have already been played with the following results:-
1st
Block 1 v. 2 – 6-0
Block 3 v. 5 – 3-3 (re-play).
Block 6 v. 4 – 3-3 (re-play).
2ND
Block 6 v. 3 – 12-0.
Block 2 v. 1 and 4 8-0.
It is very gratifying to see the enthusiasm displayed by all players and the rugger season has really opened with a swing. It is hoped that this interest will be maintained and that the field and weather will permit a series of international games in addition to the Block or Club fixtures,. A 7-a-side tournament will be arranged later in the season.
Oberfeldwebel Hentschel, until recently Major Rudel’s air gunner, has been killed in Russia. V.B.
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COUNT YOUR COUPONS
He met her at a party and instinctively he knew
That she was acquiescent and adorable,
He manages to persuade her, before the party broke
That for him to drive her home was not deplorable[delight,
He made a slight reconnaissance and found to his
Topographically her contours were caressable,
But, as the mileage mounted, imagine his dismay-
Geographically the wench was not accessible!
The Rt. Hon. Mr. Fraser, Prime Minter of New Zealand, recently declared “Although China, at the moment, represents no great factor in world power, she is destined to become a great nation.” V.B.
Lord Halifax, British Ambassador to the United Stated, speaking recently at Denver, said : “India’s progress has reached a point where only one obstacle remains in the way if the total independence offered by England, The attainment of this goal has been delayed, not because of English reluctance to delegate their power, but because an agreement between the Hindus, Moslems, Princes and other Indian groups has not yet been reached.” V.B.
…
Severe frosts, which set in recently, are reported to have destroyed 50-90 per cent. Of this year’s fruit harvest in England V.B.
STAGE AND SCREEN NEWS
Gary Cooper has been visiting Australia to entertain the troops; he also made several broadcast while there.
Deanna Durbin’s latest picture “the Butler’s Sister,” is said to be very entertaining.
A new film “My Friend Flicka,” in technicolour with a youthful star, concerns the friendship of a young boy and his worse. Although it sounds to have all the makings of a nauseating story it is said to be good. The shots include some fine scenic views of Oregon Country.
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Glen Miller and his band were in the Marines as entertainers. One night they played a swing version of “Star Spangled Banner.” Glen Miller and his band are in the army now.
Irving Berlin’s London Show “This is the Army” has been filmed. The cast of the film version includes George Murphy and Irving Berlin.
…
United States Forces Military Police in England wear white uniforms and belts. We are told that they are universally known as “Snowdrops.”
…
Wing Commander Gibson is engages in making speeches up and down the country for various good causes. It is said that he is to be nominated for a constituency.
The following translation is taken from the paper Das Reich of Sunday, 21st May, 1944:-
“After the failure of the Soviets to break though towards Galatz, they have now regrouped their forces preparatory to a big offensive at three points. At the same time 3 ½ million Americans and Englishmen are ready to embark, partly with new weapons, on the long planned invasion. On the bridgeheads at Nettuno the re-inforced allies are ready for an offensive similar to the one which has begun at Cassino.
Stalin has publicly insisted that these operations be synchronised; this can occur in two different ways:-
(1) The starting of these concentric thrusts on the same date; considerable technical difficulties stand in the way of such an undertaking.
(2) Or these operations can occur successively; the question arises whether the attack at Cassino is the first thrust in this plan, which would be followed by similar blows in the East.
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The plan is that these two simultaneous thrusts should draw large numbers of tropes from the west wall, in order to simplify the attack there. It is anticipated that there will be two major attacks the first in the area between Jassy and Tarnopol, the second on the European West Coast in the proximity of England. This does not mean that possibilities in Italy, the Balkans, or the South Coast of France should be overlooked. Nor should the mention of Norway and Western Sweden, in Allied propaganda, be cast aside.
The Anglo-American air forces have prepared these two points; firstly, the bombing in South East Europe is calculated to seriously affect the supplies to our troops fighting Tito’s forces and the Russian forces on the Southern portion of the East front and to cut the East-W Gest traffic. Secondly, the bombing of certain coastal areas in Belgium and N. France is intended to keep the German West front in a state of siege and, literally, throttle any internal troop movements. The bandits in the Balkans are pressing towards Serbia with an obvious aim and the bandit army in France has the task of holding down substantial forces if our troops.
The political offensive against the Axis and its allies is designed to beat breached into the Ventral European defensive systems. The political pressure against the neutrals is intended to stop the supply of materials to the Germans.
The state of weather, moon and tide will give the signal for the enemy invasion machine to burst forth, unless the whole invasion propaganda is a bluff, in which caser, of course, it will rebound on the enemy.
However, the enemy plan contains certain definite mistakes; neither the bombing of raw material and industrial centres, nor successes on the neutral front can seriously affect the German defensive power, in view of the Central European policy of building up huge reserves of these commodities. Over a long period this object might be achieves but the attack has not, as yet, been carried on long enough.
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Intensive attacks on the Western, Northern and Central European railway cannot, in the long run, success in seriously affecting the movement of troops or supplies, because relatively short sketches of railway line are involved and these temporary gaps can be bridged by other of transport; and such damage can be quickly repaired.
Over and above all this – sufficient reserves are available in the centre of the theatre of operations, to give the Higher Command all possible support in the event of a concentric or general attack.
Lastly, a synchronised attack on the continent might, possibly, show better than ever before, the political tension in the Allied Camp – This is true of the Anglo-American-Russian discussions about claims on Norwegian and Swedish territory and also the divergence of views over the Spanish question and, especially, over the Balkans.
And, in addition to all these factors Germany has not yet shot her last bolt on land or sea.” Das Reich.
EMPIRE DAY RUGGER
BRITISH 0 : DOMINIONS 3.
The solidarity of the Empire was displayed to Silesia on May 24th, when representatives of the Dominions (and “far-flung outposts”) played a hard game of Rugby against the Mother Country in even harder foreign soil.
Conditions were not ideal for players or spectators, due to the well-baked soil and the prevalence of a strong cross-wind.
The game got underway with the Dominions winning the toss and electing to play with the wind. The British forwards, using their weight, established superiority over the Dominions and, for the first quarter of an hour, controlled the ball well in the tight and loose. Several resultant three-quarter movements were broken by the Dominions’ stubborn defence, particularly on the wings.
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Neither side was in danger during the first half, except for two threatening drives started by Walshe, British centre three-quarter, which did not develop. A penalty was taken dangerously near the British goal, but Lissett’s kick failed to rise. The first half ended with the Dominion forwards establishing their superiority in the tight scrums, getting the ball back well.
Play was resumed with the dominions on the offensive, both sides producing several very good movements, The British attempted to drop goal from a mark by Bell, forward, which rebounded from the post; a concerted forward and centre movement was only defeated when the ball passed the “dead ball “ line, with Strong, British half-back, in hot, but unsuccessful pursuit. The Dominions made several breaks through instigated by Lissett, centre three- quarter, which failed on the wing; a dangerous forward movement in the British goal ended in a five yards scrum.
A penalty awarded against the British in front of their goal was successfully kicked by Lissett to produce the only score in a very well fought game.
The hooking of Gericke, the defensive play of MacDonald, and hard work of Lissett in the Dominions team were counted by the safe handling of the ball by Strong, the tackling of Hamilton, substituting on the wing, and the British centres.
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The “Trap”, or entrance to a tunnel, after discovery by the Germans.
DOWN A TUNNEL.
Photographs were discovered among German records.
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[Newspaper images]
Deutsche Allgemeine Beitung Berlin, Mittwoch 7. Juni 1944
Die Invasion hat begonnen
Abwehr und Kampf in vollen Gange
VOLKISCHER BEOBACHTER, Berlin, Mittwoch 7, Juni 1944
Nach Längerem Zögern dem Drägen der Sowjets nachgegeben
Die Schlacht im Western hat begonnen
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THE LOG
BELARIA 12th June, 1944
NUMBER TWENTY
EDITORIAL
PRESENT indications point to a successful conclusion of hostilities within a short time and tend to focus our attention on the secondary, but none the less important, considerations of post-war re-establishment if service personnel.
It will obviously be necessary to maintain large land, sea and air forces for a long period after the final armistice is signed. Such forces, however, will be composed of a relatively small proportion of the numbers now actively engaged and in all probability will be reduced to a practical minimum, in political concurrence with the demands on long suffering tax-payers.
The problem of the readjustment of the civilian employees of war industries will be coincidental with the problem raises by the absorption, into civilian employment, of the demobilised soldiery. Millions of new jobs must be found to accommodate these people. The question has not been overlooked by several governments of the Allied Powers, nor have they been shelved while the necessary attention is devoted to the essential business of winning the war. It would appear that our governments have borne in mind, to some degree, the experience gained after the armistice in 1918.
It is a matter of great interest to consider the various means that may be employed. We are able to visualise to some extent the broad basis on which the problems have been approached, although this information is far from complete.
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The primary consideration must be that of assuring everyone a livelihood during the period of social re-adjustment. To achieve this it will be necessary to prevent the demobilisation of personnel who cannot, for the moment, be absorbed into economically satisfactory employment,
There are several factors which have received attention in the industrial sphere, It has been realised that the changeover from war industry to the manufacture of consumer goods must be well in hand before the termination of hostilities, Definite steps have been taken to ensure that this will be the case, and- while it is a matter more directly affecting, those employed in war industry – it should have a most salutary effect on the problem of providing suitable employment for ex-service personnel.
Further, it is confidently anticipated that the increased industrial developments resulting directly from war-time technical advances in aircraft production, plastics and radio communication – to mention only a few of the more obvious possibilities – will provide opportunities for re-employment on a large scale.
It is interesting to note that inter-allied co-operation after the war will not be limited to the military sphere, this would seem to contrast with the generally gloomy views as to trade conditions after the war, and recognition of the fact that Great Britain must have adequate share of the world trade is more than a step in the right direction. It seems to substantiate the prognostication that there will be, among the Allied powers, a definite planned economy directed towards effective stabilization of foreign trade and exchange on a mutually beneficial basis.
The various other plans and consideration, such as educational schemes planned on effective functional lines, agricultural assistance provisions and subsidized emigration to less thickly populated areas, are all directed towards achieving satisfactory rehabilitation with I minimum of disruption.
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CHURCH SERVICE, Sunday, June 8th, 1944
(2nd Sunday after Trinity)
0930 hours- Holy Communion, Chapel.
1115 hours – O.D. Service, Theatre. (Conducted by F/O Cribb)
1815 hours – Evening Service, Theatre.
Hymns : “Holy Father, cheer our way”
“God that madest earth and Heaven”
“The day thou gavest, Lord, is ended”
THE FOOD SITUATION AT BELARIA
It is extremely probable that internal rail communications in Germany will be considerably affected by current events and many officers will have wondered whether this will affect the Red Cross food parcel supply. We sent a reporter to interview the parcels officer and his views are published hereunder:-
Q. How long will the present stock of parcels at Belaria last?
A. About nine weeks at the present strength of the camp.
Q. Have you any news of the 14,000 parcels ordered direct from Geneva?
A. we have now been informed that this shipment has, in error, been unloaded at Sagan and is now in their store. In view of this we have written to Geneva asking for a replacement to be sent here direct.
Q. Will Sagan supply us if we run short?
A. They have been asked to do so until our supplies arrive, we have not yet had their answer, but I have no doubt that the will comply.
Q. In view of possible difficulties with rail transport ans also with local cartage from Sagan, do you recommend that messes try to build up a stock of non-perishable foodstuffs?
A. Yes, by all means.
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The Victoria Cross has been awarded To:-
CAPTAIN PHILIP SIDNEY
F-Lt ? HILL
F-Sgt. ? AARON
We regret that we are unable to supply the names of the R.A.F. holders or details of the citations. Captain Sidney was awarded his V.C. for serviced at Anzio.
Distinguishes Flying Crosses have been awarded to :-
F/Lt. Lazenby, F/O Middleton, F/O. Buckonridge, S-Ldr. Marshall, F/O. Hill. Group Captain N. Pickard, D.S.O. and 2 bars, D.F.C., is reported missing.
THE DIARY OF P/O PEPYS, P.O.W.
Monday, 5th June, A.D. 1944
BELARIA
During the Appelle this morning did see the guards in the Vorlager wearing their gasmasks, a premonitory symptom, for to be mindful of an invasion is one this, but to be expectant of gas is an odious matter. At this time we did learn of the foreclosure of the sports field, some rumoured for the building of heated showers and a swimming place, but it was all a falsity, for nothing was further from our minds of the builders. I learnt that one of the new “purge” which did arrive yesterday approached my Lord Tuck, whist my Lord was in is undress uniform and said “I say, old boy, were you a fighter type?” The crisis is now past and our physician says that they are both doing well – though knowing our physician, he may have has his bridge opponents in mind, or his is rapacious where cards are concerned – oft playing two games at once. What news this day, for we learn of the making over of ROME to us, a capital moved in the right direction. Tomorrow is the official birthday of our Sovereign Lord the King and we will parade in honour; so this night a great cleansing of our brasses and boots.
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Tuesday, 6th June
This morning it did rain and our parade for the King was cancelled – all our cleansing in vain – But the news did not damp our spirits, for to-day we did learn that our soldiers are, even now, fighting on this continent and progressing towards is. They were put ashore early this morning on the coast of France and now the battle rages; for this is the determinate struggle and our patience will soon be rewarded. We can now dare to hope to be home for this Christmas, as an old and senior officer, inured to false hopes, whispered to me. Even our Adjutant’s eye did gleam and I believe he has been asking new prisoners for details of the trains to London town. HOPE AND FACT MAY DIFFER BUT HOME IS IN SIGHT. And so to bed, in a room full of rumours and preparations for the morrow’s parade.
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GREEN FINGERS
Some of the tomato plants were found to be broken at the growing point. If you received any in this condition they should be left to push out a lateral from one the axils of the leaves and this shoot should them be trained upwards and treated as they normal stem. If all the laterals have already been removed no shoot will appear and the plant is useless and should be discarded as it will no produce leaves and, possibly, one small bunch of under-sized fruit. The SPINACH is running to seed very quickly. There is no way of avoiding this in out soil. Crinkled leaves mean that your plant has been attacked by blackfly.
PARSNIP will benefit from a dressing of soot, fresh manure (if you know a horse) should be avoided.
All vegetable seeds have now been issued.
Only with greatest of difficulty was Churchill dissuaded from following the invasion troops to France; so affirmed Admiral Ramsay, who directed naval operations. Only when he has been convinced that his personal protection would impose a great added burden on the invasion forces, would he give up the project. Since the first landings it has been almost impossible to induce him to rest, even for a few hours. B.B.Z.
…
One or two of the more enterprising London newspapers have chartered private aircraft to fly their latest editions across the Channel to the troops in France. B.B.Z.
…
In the East we have been forced to the painful recourse of evacuating wide areas won by the blood of German and German Allied soldiers. But this was necessary for two reasons; firstly, to hold up the politico-military drive on Italy and secondly, and more importantly, to be assured – in keeping with the military tenets of Napoleon and Moltke – of adequate strength on the decisive theatre of war. V.B.
C
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According to an announcement by the ministry of War and Transport 588,000 persons have been killed or injured in the street accidents since the beginning of the war. This figure exceeds the total English ware losses during the same period. B.B.Z.
…
The Revue – “Give Us Air” – opens on Tuesday and will run for five nights. This show will be followed by the presentation of “French Without Tears.”
THE ATTACKON WESTERN FRANCE
The following items of news and information on the above subject are taken from articles printed in the German papers during the week:-
Neutral reports have stated that the date of the invasion was decided upon as long as August, 943; when Roosevelt and Churchill met at Quebec.
The American Major General J.F. Miller has been reduced to the rank of Lieut. Colonel and sent back to the United States. At a cocktail party he revealed the approximate date of the invasion by remarking: “I give you my word of honour that the invasion will take place before the 13th of June.”
The only German naval forces opposing the British concentration were speedboats. The British forces totalled at least 280 ships of all kinds, among them 6 battleships, cruisers, destroyers, armoured cruisers, landing boats, etc. The Warspite, Nelson, Ramillies and Rodney were named among the British battleships and the Nevada, Texas and Arkansas among the American. A German bomber attacking the naval forces reported that: “the scene is lit up, at times ,as bright as day. Captain T. shouts in astonishment to his observer, “You can throw them out where y like, you’ll hit a ship anywhere.”
The parachute troops, who were landed in Normandy, included a group of Red Indians who called themselves the “Dirty Thirteen” and are trained specially for demolition work. They have the traditional red and black wat paint on their
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Faces and their heads are shaven smooth. Also included were life size dolls, loaded with explosive, which were thrown out by parachute East of the Orne.
Early reports of simultaneous landing between Calais and Dunkirk proved to be false. The invasion fleet which was seen to be approaching this area proved to be a diversion.
A British press photographer is reported to have spent half an hour on the Orne bridgehead on Tuesday, and to have said, among other things: “I was at the Anzio landing too, but that was nothing to this hell. The Germans had a cleverly worked out system of machine gun nests and held their fire until the first Allied soldiers had landed; then they loosed a hurricane of steel and fire upon the swarm on the beach. At the same time the artillery fired on the boats on their way to the shore.”
From D.A.Z.: “The German people has received the news of the start of the invasion with calm, almost with a sense of relief. It will continue to bear the burden even if the present front is followed by others and even if Churchill should call to his aid the war sabotage in the Occupied Territories, as proclaimed two years ago.”
“AT LAST:” is the only phrased to sum up the feelings of the man in the street in England, on hearing the news. There were no demonstrations, no declarations of optimism. People felt too tense and serious. Neutral correspondent remarked: “Everyone knows what is in front of him: too many have relations and friends among the men who are off to France to have anything left over for enthusiasm or for rejoicing over victory in advance” The churches were open for prayer. Kind George broadcast to the English people and the Empire, urging them to pray. English publicity was sober. Churchill’s speech in the House was made without any dramatic effects. The few other speakers said very little. Mr. Gallagher, the Communist M.P. who has persistently demanded the second front, wanted to address a vote of thanks to Churchill but his feelings were too much for him; he was overcome by tears, and, breaking off in the middle of a sentence, sank back to his seat.
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The British Broadcasting Company found itself compelled to re-broadcast German announcements, to keep the British public abreast of the situation. It was not until 9 o’clock (a.m. or p.m. ? Ed.) that any official news from British sources was forthcoming.
From THE O.K.W. COMMUNIQUE FOR 6.6.44
In the course of last night the enemy began his long prepared and long anticipated attack on Western Europe. After an initial heavy bombardment of out coastal defences, the enemy landed air-borne troops at several points on the N. French coast, between Cherbourg and Le Harve, at the same time carrying out sea-borne landings supported by strong naval units. Bitter fighting is in progress in the coastal sectors under attack.
THIRTEEN TO THE DOZEN (1st in the series)
CAPTAIN LEVY
I’m walking around this here compound minding my own business when up comes one of them guys called Economists. He tells me this that when we get home a government guy is coming to you to assess all your possessions, (That means everything that a guy’s got). This guy is going to let you know how much cash your possessions are worth. Then he takes only thirty per cent. of it from you and pays the war debts just as quick like winking an eye. Now let me warn you, be careful of what you pack in the old kit-bag and I also suggest that we should submit an application now for a nudist camp preferable the mix type for exkriegies. Because the less you have the less you have to pay. But I feel sorry for those chaos this got them Rolex timers instead of paying £10 like they thought. “It’s going to be £13,” I says this economist guy, “they can’t do that to me.” Then he says, “That or else inflations. “ So I keep quiet and think to myself, And this is what, says my brain box. Pay it, it’s a good thing. Now first thing, a good full glass of beer with a rich snow scene on top of each mug for 4d. instead of 1s., also 10 smokes for 6d. instead of
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1s. 6d. But if youse [sic] guys that’s packing your kitbags to go home in six weeks bring to much possessions you’re going to pay lots like a Rolex watch guys, therefore get less beer. A second thought maybe inflation would be a good thing because we all have to join the nudist camp even Hedy Lamarr.
The day of the utility suit is past. It is no longer compulsory and one can now order suits with the usual number of packets, trouser turnups, etc.
…
Sir Montague Norman has resigned his position as Governor of the Bank of England.
…
“LILAC DOMINO” has been revived at the Haymarket Theatre.
SHOOT YOUR LINE
If you’re just a brand new “kriegie”
And you’re feeling kind of dazed,
When an “old boy” tells a story
Never show that you’re amazed,
It’s a line.
When he tries a bit of baiting
Just to see if you will rise,
Keep right on with what you’re doing,
Show no traces of surprise,
It’s a line.
Don’t go asking foolish questions
(You’ll be wised up soon enough)
‘Cause you’ll get sarcastic answers
Which are known as “heavy stuff,”
It’s a line.
Should you hear someone suggesting
That you “haven’t got a clue,”
Don’t let on you even heard him
N ever let it bother you
It’s a line.
One day you will find a “new boy”
And when your turn has come,
Don’t stand around and gape at him,
But extricate your thumb,
Shoot your line.
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BASIL BEETON’S CORNER
4 Cups Semolina. 1Pkt. Can. Raisins.
2 Spoons Sugar ½ Tin Oleomargarine.
Work margarine into semolina very thoroughly. Add 4 or 5 spoons of cold water, until mixture is a workable dough. Take care not to get mixture too wet, add raisins and mix thoroughly.
Roll dough into sausage shape and place in a greased baking dish, cover with greased paper, bake slowly for 435-60 minutes.
Cut into slices and serve with hot ginger syrup sauce (1/3 water).
OUR STOVE
It wasn’t as though I wanted to make a stove, I didn’t even suggest the idea. The other chaps suddenly remembered all sorts of gravely important matters which demanded immediate attention; being a new kriegie I was scarcely in a position to question them. Before disappearing on their vital errands, however, the proffered much advise. Which incinerators to get the tins from, where to dig up the clay, how to acquire the bricks whose scissors to borrow for he tin-cutting and so forth. They started to drift back again, just as I cut myself for the fourth time. That was after I’d collected everything including a few pointed remarks from the Squadron Leader whose bricks seemed to be his dearest possession. Not that I was suspicious, mark you; but it did seem funny that all their important engagements were so well timed.
I thought that I was doing pretty well but evidently, in their eyes, my efforts were pathetic. They looked significantly at each other, with sorrowful shaking of their heads and the air of glum disapproval was very discouraging.
Admittedly they started to help, though couldn’t help noticing that their efforts were mostly verbal, and involved nothing of a messy, dangerous or tedious mature. I scarcely liked to point out that we couldn’t afford to break to many bricks, or to spoil the tins I’d cut, but when, inadvertently they
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knocked down the one wall I’d built, I was moved to suggest that they applied the benefits of their experience and finish the job themselves. His caused some umbrage and led to pointed remarks and muttered references to “Needless Sarcasm,” “only trying to help,” “New Kriegies,” “Clueless types” etc., etc.
The strained atmosphere had worn off by the time I had finished the job. Enough, anyway, to enable them to kindly enlighten me as to what was wrong with the stove; what I should have done instead; why it would never burn properly and how I would learn these things, with experience.
By late brew time they were actually boasting about their stove to our visitors, describing its virtues and how they built it; I must day that they were good enough to say I had assisted them.
REFERENCE LIBRARY
We have been asked to announces that books on technical subjects are in the technical reference library and are retained so that officers wishing to study specific subjects may be able to refer to the appropriate text books at any time. Only the officers teaching under the educational scheme or those studying for a particular examination are permitted to withdraw books, and only on the recommendations of the Education Officer. It is to be regretted that two books removed without authority, are still missing from the library.
…
From the Illustrierte Zeitung, April, 1944:-
Written by the German Philosopher LAGARDE in 1881:-
“A conflict with Russia will free land between the East of Poland and the Black Sea, for German settlers.
It is unbearable that history should always go to the West, whilst excellent land is lying fallow in the East; which the Sarmations, who are a burden on Europe, could acquire by a simple migration; while
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room can be found for the Germans – now vanishing into America – by throwing the Muscovites back from our doorstep.”
…
“There is nothing new under the sun.”
…
On the occasion of the fist German success against the invader, Hitler received a telegram of congratulations from the Japanese Prime Minister TOJO. P.Z.
THE BELARIA CRAWL
In a brief interview with the principal and their envoy plenipotentiary some illuminating information was obtained. It appears that the “crawl” was on settle of a wager over the probable date of the invasion; May 31st having been the “deadline.” Our readers are reminded that the preservation of dignity was the first consideration of the protagonists and their staff who made the arrangements.
The Envoy Plenipotentiary, in reply to a question assured us that feelings of the utmost cordiality existed between the principals. The winner remarked that, delighted as he would have been to lose this wager, he was of the opinion that we should se the invasion before the end of the month. The crawler endorsed this opinion and added, as a last remark before dashing off on all fours, “ALL IS LOST, SAVE HONOUR; I HAVE BEEN DOUBLECROSSED BY EISENHOWER:”
On the sound of the alert by the Master Herald, the crawler assumed the prescribed position, preceded by the Master at Arms, flanked by the Guard of Honour and followed by the Winner, the Master Buckler, the Envoy Plenipotentiary and the representatives of the Fourth Estate. Another fanfare was sounded, there was a tense hush, then a crash of cymbals the signal to start, from the Master Starter. The large crowd roared and the long awaited Belaria Crawl was under way. The crawler made good time over the first lap, 5 mins. 31 1/5 secs. At the first dormer her was greeted by the Master
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Victualler and was suitably refreshed by courtesy of the winner. The Fourth Estate was suitably and properly victualled.
The required procedure was carried out on the second and third laps, with due regard fort dignity and ceremonial. The home stretch was crawled to the strains of “Blaze Away,” the principal sustaining a smooth gait and easy rolling action; he finished the feat to the acclamations of the onlookers, having done the last lap in 4mins. 16 1/5 sec., making a total crawling time of 21 mins. 36 1/5 sec. – a record likely to stand for some time. The crawlers’ final remark was brief but to the point: “I AM SURE,” he said, “THAT IF THERE HAD BEEN 15 MORE DAYS IN MAY, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT STORY.”
The Residential Physician, Dr. Everard Monteuuis, the carried out an examination in chambers and advised the crawler to take things easy for a long time and to have an immediate and complete change of air.
The serving of refreshments, supplied to all participants by courtesy of the crawler, marked the conclusion of a most satisfactory event. Everyone now looks forward to the repeat performance, with embellishments, scheduled for next October.
DUM VIVIMUS VIVAMUS
THE ROCKET RACKET
The alleged menace of the (hitherto) secret weapon has been fully exploited in the German Press and we quote a few extracts:-
“According to the British Embassy in Stockholm, the English capital had the longest air-raid of the war on Thursday night and Friday morning (16th and 17th), new German explosives have been used. The Londoners spent sixteen hours in shelters
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And underground stations… The Home Secretary was forced to make an appeasing statement, in which he tried to minimise the damage caused… The London Press calls this “unaimed Bomber” new German trick, which will not have the desired effect…An observer, who claims to have seen one of the pilotless aircraft, stated that it looked almost like a toy and moved at a low altitude with flames shooting out of its tail.” (D.A.Z).
“The eye-witness reports, although they differ on many points, agree that the shells are filled with high-explosive and explode a few seconds after they hit the ground. The mysterious aircraft, they also said, developed a fabulous speed, they flew in groups of two or three, occasionally singly, at a height of 3,000 feet, others just at roof level.. An analysis of the different accounts results in the following composite picture:-
The shells develop a tremendous speed.
All had a bright light at their tail end.
Behind the shells a sparkling tail develops,
This – according to British suppositions – originates from exhaust gases.” (D.A.Z.)
“According to the Svenka Dagleblatt it is not only difficult, but also dangerous for the British Fighters to engage the ‘Robot’ aircraft. The latter are much faster than was originally believed and when the British fighter approached too near, it may happen that he destroys himself at the same time as the ‘Robot.’” (B.Z.)
“The Daily Herald says ‘it is clear that we have no means to fight these rocket bombs.’” (B.Z.)
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[Image MURDERR INCORPORTATED]
ARSENIC AND OLD LACE
The fact that the play is mentioned in the Editorial Mr. Pepys’ diary, and the letter on page 40, would appear to render a lengthy notice redundant. The production was well up to the high standard we have some to expect of F/Lt. Hall. Other producers would do well to note the small touched such as the dust on the shoes of Dr *Epstein after the interment in the cellar and roving eyes of Grandfather above the cellar door.
Your critic has recently seen the play in London and the outstanding difference between the
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production were portrayals of Mortimer and Jonathan. The latter was, on the professional stage, a subtly sinister person and, as such, was much more effective than the overgrown “school bully” effect presented here; the former-Mortimer-as portrayed on our stage, was a burlesque of Nauton Wayne’s playing of the part, even to the make-up. This was probably deliberate and, in view of the lack of professional talent, may have been wise. The audiences will have judged for themselves.
The Aunts, Abby and Martha, were delightful and stood out well above the rest of the cast; this does not imply that they lacked support. The minor parts were filled, mostly, with new talent, and it is obvious that, with experience, we shall have the makings of a really good selection of players which to cast.
*(ED.NOTE: The mistake is not mine, for Ep. Please read Ein.).
…
We have been asked to publish a reminder to all those rehearsing for forthcoming productions. Please be punctual. Delay in starting rehearsals plays “merry hell” with the schedule.
…
3,000 allied prisoners-of-war were present quartered at Stalag Luft I, Barth. It is reported that this number includes 600 R.A.F. personnel. A recent letter from the Senior Allied Officer at Barth acknowledges with thanks Reich Marks and other gifts from Stag Luft III. The S.A.O. states that they are short of necessary equipment for repairing boots, clothing, etc., but the food position has improved slightly.
…
It is interesting to note that “Arsenic and Old Lace,” written by two Americans, Moss Hart and Kaufmann, has been running for 18 months in London and 3 ½ years in New York, Boris Karloff played the part of Jonathon in the New York version.
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[newspaper images]
VOLKISCHER BEOBACHTER
Berlin, Sonnerbend, 17 Juni 1944
It neuen Sprengkörpen größten Kalibers
Gegen London und Südengland
GERMAN NEWSPAPEWR HEADLINE WHEN V1 WAS FIRST USED.
[Image]
A GENERAL VIEW OF THE CAMP AT BELARIA.
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[Image]
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THE LOG
BELARIA 19th June, 1944
NUMBER TWENTY-ONE
EDITORIAL
It is obvious that the joint planning of post-war industry and trade with a view to providing maximum re-employment is only one of the many problems which have confronted the governments of the Allied powers in their efforts to prepare for the forthcoming demobilisation.
Governments assistance in the education and technical training of ex-service personnel has already provided form to a standard where they may have re-absorbed into civilian life properly equipped to face the future with confidence born of knowledge and ability rather than optimism. In some cases this assistance will take the form of bursaries and scholarships; in others it will take the form of free educational facilities plus adequate living allowances. Alternatively, and almost certainly, there will be substantial payment in the form of rehabilitation subsistence allowances or gratuities sufficient to finance the period of instruction.
Modern warfare demands that we have a lengthy and vigorous training for its successful prosecution; the modern industrial and commercial world, too, will find room for those who can prove themselves skilled and competent. It is an unavoidable and unpleasant circumstance that the exigencies of war should require the services of a whole generation of young men, just as they arrive at the crucial point of their education or training, and that they must be asked to sacrifice these all important formative years. There seems to be, in official circles, a
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Growing appreciation of this sacrifice and its extent; in some cases definite steps are being taken to offset or compensate for the resultant disadvantages.
It only remains to point out that those members of the services who do not intend to remain on the permanent strength and who do not have essential background or training, will do well to consider seriously ways and means of fitting themselves for future employment. Wherever possible, savings from pay and gratuities, should be regarded as capital and be reserved for this purpose.
In addition to the plans already discussed, extensive preparations have been made for providing assistance for those wishing to take up or resume farming. Naturally the countries most interested in these plans for setting up returned men as farmers and ranchers are those Dominions and Colonies which have large available areas of land suitable for agriculture. This does not mean that ex-servicemen from other countries will be excluded from participation. Although no definite statement has been forthcoming, it seems certain that they will be encouraged and assisted in any plans they may have for emigrating, as potential farmers, to these dominions. Prospective farmers, with previous experience, will find no difficulty in obtaining adequate financial assistance from the state. Those lacking this experience will be able to obtain it under the most favourable conditions, with the assurance of further assistance when the training period has been completed.
It is reassuring to note that everything possible is being done to avoid the tragic errors of the ex-solider settlement schemes introduced after the last war; when men, absolutely unsuited for farming were allotted holdings of land and then left to fend for themselves.
The new plans aimed at achieving permanent and economically successful re-establishment of the returned Service men; in such a manner that they are assured of a reasonable opportunity to become independent, satisfied member of the community.
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TO ALL AT BELARIA
I am glad to take the opportunity, kindly given me, of introducing myself through the LOG.
I have come here to be a Camp Chaplain along with Padre Powell, whim I had the pleasure of knowing at Oflag IX A/Z.
I am Church of Scotland and Parish Minister of St. Andrews. The Services I conduct will be according to the Presbyterian form. I hope that these services (similar to those which F/O Cribb bas been conducting) will continue to be welcomed by members of all denominations to whom they are familiar through custom and so dear by association.
There is no room, however, for denominational separateness and I look forward to sharing the Services and other Ministerial work of the Camp with Padre Powell, and desire to be of use in whatever directions I can. W.E.K.RANKIN.
…
FUKUDA, a member of the Japanese Army Headquarter Intelligence Staff, recently gave a lecture on the Japanese offensive operations in Honan. He stated that the object of this offensive was not so much the subjugation of Chunking as the prevention of the American intention to use Chinese bombing bases for the attack on Japan. D.A.Z.
…
General Eisenhower, Marshall, Arnold and King of the United States Forces, have paid a visit to Normandy during the last few days. D.A.Z.
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“GIVE US THE AIR”
Your critic attended the third night of this revue and came away from the theatre completely baffled as to the objects of the author-producer. The music, some original and some, new arrangements of old themes, was excellent. The band were on the top of their form and a delight to listen to.
The script was well larded with stock jokes of the “Waterworks Engineer” type and with broad digs at some of the personnel of the camp. I was left with the impression that “Anything for a Laugh” has been the guiding principle of the author. If this was his intention, he succeeded beyond all doubt, the audience laughed heartily at many of the jokes – possibly without remembering that they had been doing so for many many years. The humour (?) was, at times, very broad, noticeably in the Brain (T)rust sketch, and a little originality and subtlety would have been welcome.
The chorus were a popular troupe and their well-drilled performances pointed to may hours of unremitting labour on the part of the de ballet Professor Woad’s performance, too, was the high-spot of an otherwise sticky sketch.
The honours of the evening go to the author-producer, for all the hard work he must have put into the production; to the composer of the music which we enjoyed so much; to the band who put it over so well, and to W/O Wagstaffe, for his pleasant renderings of songs with little appeal and less meaning. The settings were well designed and executed; particularly the opening set and the “Boogie Woogie” background.
…
The One-Act okay completion takes place during this week. Details will be announced.
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THE DIARY OF P/O PEPYS, P.O.W. XXI.
IIth June, A.D. 1944
A Long sleep, this morning being Lord’s Day. After church did see the Senior Naval Officers who was much relieved that the new arrivals of yesterday did not include any Naval officer more senior than himself. His crew is increasing and there should be sufficient to man the boats if it is a wet autumn. Our cook tells me that as he was collecting flowers in the sports field a postern did approach and ask if he was going to make tea from the; he could not have been well informed, for we have three pounds of real tea upon our shelves.
Monday, 12th June
Once again our family increases, for we have drawn the lowest card and, a large body of men having arrived for Heydekrug, we must have two more quarters. Twelve in a room is a swarm and we live likes bees in a hive; as there are no beds for the newcomers they must sleep on the tables and benches, with their belongs tucked into every corner. This evening did ensue a worthy sight; there is one of our number who insists on violating the air with the screech of his practice on the bagpipes, during the day out ears are tormented by the melancholy shrieks and squeals of the pipes, which, I learn, turns Scottish men fighting mad. Driven to desperation, out brave Senior Belgian Officer led the Legion of Tuck Tenements in the opposition against the strident cacophony. But they must needs retreat, for the would-be piper, an Antipodean to boot, blew so hard as to drive them away. Now out gallant Allies, so adapt at sabotage, are concocting a satisfactory end to this bag of wind.
Wednesday, 14th June
Last, night I did see the new revue at the theatre, this was a new brand of amusement for us and many like it much; for the chorus was very attractive and the music, which was home-grown was excellent in composition and execution. A dull day again. And so to bed, wondering why there was no German communique to cheer our spirits.
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QUIET PERIOD
“Oh, hello there, come on in. How’s everything going? I haven’t seen you for ages – you must be studying to be a hermit.”
“What’s that? Sorry, I didn’t quite catch that. Come on over here and sit down beside me.”
“Oh, you knocked three or four times. Now isn’t that funny. I never even noticed.”
“What’s that? Oh, no, I’m not getting deaf. At least, I don’t think so. S[peak a little louder. People seem to mumble so much these days.”
“Do you know everybody here? What? Sorry, I couldn’t hear you. Oh, yes – a bit noisy, but you get used to that.”
“That fellow over there? Oh, he’s just doing a bit o tin-bashing. Yes, he’s quite good at it. Makes all kinds of things.
“What did you say? A blacksmith in civvy life? Oh no, I think he was a book keeper. Oh, I see it now. You were joking. Ha, ha. You always were a wit weren’t you?”
“That dark chap? Just learning? Oh, no, he’s been playing the violin for at least two months. He’s just practising scales now.”
“What’s that you say? Sounds like a cat on a tin roof?> Well, I guess it’s a matter of taste.”
“Those four? Well, you see, they’re playing kin. Not din, old boy, kin –K-I-N. A game some Belgians brought from the Congo.”
“What did you say? Should have left it there – But, really, old boy, it’s a lot of fun.”
“What? Why do they make so much noise? Oh, that’s all part of the game, you see- Pardon – You think chess would be better. I don’t quite follow you.”
“Him? What? Oh, he’s just showing how he used to attack. What’s that you say? The noise? Well, that’s just his way of imitating a Merlin. Yes. He’s really very interesting. You should hear him do an air-raid siren. Perhaps he will if you ask him.”
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“Pardon? What did you say? Can he imitate an Oyster? How do you mean?”
“What? You won’t stay for tea? But I thought you said you…”
“Well, really, old man, there’s no need to shout about it – Well, I know it says “Quiet Period,” but…”
“What? A madhouse did you say….”
“Well, really, old boy…..!!”
POLITICAL EDUCATION
We frequently hear the suggestion that many of the world present difficulties are due to a lack of political education among the masses of people of the leading nations. There is a widely held view that if the general public were competently instructed in political and administrative affairs, it would be less susceptible to specious propaganda and less prone to such manifestations of mass hysteria as have marked history since the last war, and that a politically intelligent electorate would make the taks of modern government more simple.
Political education, obviously, cannot be taught in the same manner as mathematics or English literature. The needs if an expanding, changing civilisation and the steady evolution of the administration apparatus call for some sort of curriculum which would have to be adaptable to current development. Equally obvious is the necessity for safeguards to prevent any scheme of political evolution becoming a political instrument of the regime in power.
It is interesting to speculate upon possible means of providing a curriculum of political education for, as an instance, our secondary schools. A curriculum might be prepared by a special committee, headed by a permanent official of the Board of Education, The members of this committee would be representative of all shades and colours of political opinion; the courses of study which they would prepare would assure that every student, on attaining
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Matriculation standard, would have a thorough grasp of both the machinery of administration as it exists and of the aims and objective of all the leading political groups.
Education, along these lines, might go far towards reducing the incidence of prejudice and emotion upon modern problems of statecraft and ensure a rational approach to the nation’s affairs.
BAND AD MUSIC NOTES
A meeting of entertainment officers was held at Sagan during last week as a result Belaria was allotted several new musical instruments. These include a new piano, our outstanding need, and a new bass fiddle, the present one being in a very sorry state. Other instruments include a set of drums, 3 saxophones, 1 trumpet, 3 clarinets and miscellaneous effects. The instruments will complete every section of the band with new instruments.
The interval music for the forthcoming show – FRENCH WITHOUT TEARS - will be played by the Tango section, directed by Flying Officer Ryder.
FLIGHT SERGEANT CLOVER, R.A.F.
Those kriegies who know S/Ldr. Cranswick, D.S.O., D.F.C., may be interested to hear that both he and Flt. Sgt. Clover are now screened.
This gallant N.C.O. is particularly fine Alsatian dog belonging to the Squadron Leader, they have just retired from operations after ninety-six trips by the latter and one by the Flight Sergeant. They joined the squadron together and Clover participated keenly to be a born airdog, never batting an eyelid in the tightest turn.
It was decided to take him on an operational flight; oxygen raised rather a problem but Clover insisted that he could cope and proves it by sleeping soundly at all altitudes above 15,000 feet. The aircraft returned safely to its base, but unfortunately, was forced to make a belly landing. The crew
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escaped unhurt but despite this it proved to be Clover’s first and last ‘op.’ A.M.F. case? Not on your life. Just Flight Commander’s orders.
Clover maintains a log-book which is handed in for signature with those of other aircrew at the end of each month and all his trips have been properly authorised by the Flight Commander. The ‘Duty’ column in the log-book contains some rather unorthodox entries such a: “Getting cheesed as second Wop – moving to second engineer’s position.” etc.
When not operating himself, Clover maintained a keen interest in the safety of his crew; on operational nights he would watch take-off with a critical eye from their dispersal point, whence he refused to budge until the long awaited drone raised his head. Soon aircraft were landing in quick succession remaining unidentified by ground crews until they were nearly in the respective dispersals. By some sixth sense, denied to mere humans, Clover knew immediately Cranswick had touched down and passed on the news by barking loudly and excitedly wagging his tail. This happened not once or twice but on every trip and he was never found to be incorrect.
We wonder whether he has been commissioned yet, it must be great fun for him shooting his operational line to less ambitious types of his kind and we don’t doubt it has been worth many a pint of its canine equivalent in the Sergeant’s Mess of the O.T.U. at which he and his master now serve.
THE ATTACK ON THE WESTERN FRONT
The first reports were confused and often contradictory but following main outlines have emerged. The actual invasion consisted of four main episodes:-
(a) Heavy bombardment from the air.
(b) Parachute landings.
(c) Reinforcements of parachutists by transport aircraft and gliders.
(d) Coastal landings under the protection of naval artillery.
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The landings were spread along the coast from Le Havre to Cap’de la Hague; there were, in addition, numerous airborne attacks all over the peninsula of Cotentin. These resolved themselves into two main areas, the British positions north of Bayeux and the Americans north of Carenton and up the east coast of Cotentin. A second large series of landing occurred on the evening and night of Tuesday, 6th; a noticeable feature of these landings was the vast number of gliders and transport aircraft used; a third followed on the afternoon and evening of Tuesday, 8th. The British forces pushed South and, on Thursday, had taken Bayeux. They had a bulge East of Orne, but it was here and at Caen that the main German resistance was encountered, no further progress has been reported from this region. N Saturday, 10th the British and Americans joined up at Isigny. Since then there have been three main thrusts:-
The Americans pushed West and took Carenton on Monday, 2th. Since then their main attack has gone North-West supported by further attacks and heavy artillery from the navy on the North-East corner of Cotentin, on Thursday, 15th; their main advance reached a point between Valognes and Montebourg.
The main British attack has gone along the roads radiating South, South-East and South-West from Bayeux and on Wednesday, 14th, fighting was reported South of Tilly and Balleroy and as far as Caumont, about 30 kms. inland.
The Americans on the British West flank have advanced South-East from Carenton and have crossed the Bayeux-St. Lo road.
The allies have been supported by a continuous naval and air bombardment. The Germans report that a big battle is impending.
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[Image – THE CAST OF ROPE]
BEHIND THE SCENES
The entertainments officers of all six camps met at Sagan during last week and were informed that further meetings of this sort are forbidden by the German authorities.
We have succeeded in securing another piano, anyone wishing to practise should see Flying Officer Whiteley.
The electric gramophone is still in the Vorlager, we hope to get it in =when some new classical records are available
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The film projector, plus films (titles unknown), will start a tour of all camps during the week. Dates of showing are not yet decided for this camp.
…
The Rushcliff Commission has recommended that high rates of pay should be made to the members of the Queen Alexandra Nursing Service. The present rates are about £350 per annum for an experienced and certified nursing sister.
CHURCH SERVICES FOR 25TH JUNE, 1944
3rd Sunday after Trinity.
0930 hours – Holy Communion, Chapel.
1115 hours – Camp Service (C. of E.) Theatre.
Hymn: “Christ, whose glory fills the skies.”
“Thy Kingdom come, O God.”
“Rejoice, the Lord is king.”
Preacher: Rev. C.P. Powell).
1815 hours – Evening Prayers, Chapel.
…
You are reminded that there is a meeting of the Belaria Branch of the Northern Heights Model Club every Wednesday at 1630 hours in the Fiction Library.
…
The German A.R.P. Association has published an explanatory statement about the ever-recurring assertion that terror-bombers spray the target-towns with phosphorus. It appears that target marking bombs have given the deceptive impression of raining phosphorous. Distant and close observation leads to the erroneous impression that phosphorous is being sprayed. Sometimes fires or direct hits cause the bombload to explode and the liquid burning mass is the resultant spectacle. Similar result is produced when a phosphorus bomb gets stuck in the ground and throws its contents upwards, the burning mass is violently ejected to a height of sixty feet or more and comes down in the firm of a flaming spray. In no case will an actual rain of liquid phosphorous be observed. D.A.Z.
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General Montgomery crossed the Channel by destroyer on the 8th June, his tactical H.Q. are now established somewhere in Normandy. D.A.Z
…
Darnars, Secretary General for the Maintenance of Order and Chief of the Militia, has been appointed Secretary of State for the Interior but will retain his previous duties. D.A.Z.
…
The French themselves know that the recent air-raids on French cities were for the purpose of destroying possible French Industrial competition after the war. P.Z.
…
During the period of rationing 26th June to 23rd July, the quota of 100 grammes of animal fats will be omitted. The deficiency will be made up by an increase of the butter, margarine and salad oil ration. B.B.Z.
…
The official British News Service reports from Allied Headquarters that the situation in France is regarded there with “cautious optimism.” B.B.Z.
…
British War Correspondents report that, on the fall of Bayeux, invasion troops were greeted by the jubilant populace with garlands of roses and apple blossom. The streets of the town were said to be covered with a carpet of flowers. On their entry into the town the soldiers were stopped by the joyful inhabitants and regaled with ham and red burgundy. P.Z
…
The Rt. Hon. Herbert Morrison has stated that England has spent £19,000,000,000, on the war. V.B.
HOBSON’S CHOICE
32 year old Mata Schindler, of Suszenback, Silesia, has been employed by a farmer since 1933 as an assistant in the house and also to help with farm work. The latter part of her duties ceased to appeal to her and she decided to give up the
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position. Her employer could not, however, find a replacement and she, Mata, was compelled to stay on in the job. Despite this order Miss Schindler got the idea of burning down the farm buildings and she set light to sheds containing equipment, cattle etc. By good fortune the wind changed so that the farmhouse and a mill with reserve of grain were saved. The culprit appeared before the court in Leignitz and was sentenced to 8 years’ imprisonment to be followed by 8 years’ “Loss of Honour.” It was only the fact that she was considered to be slightly mental that prevented the court from enforcing the Death Penalty, which would have been normal in such a case. V.B.
…
German Reparation bonds have increased in value on the London Stock exchange, since the Invasion, while shipping shares have gone down. Shares in French Railway Companies have increased in value from £15 to £75. D.A.Z.
…
Although the enemy, who has been steadily concentrating his forces has been attacking at many different points, these offensive and defensive actions serve, at bottom, the purpose of testing the relative strength on all fronts so that focal points for greater operations can be found D.A.Z.
LITTLE TALKS – I.
(With apologies to A.P. Herbert)
“Hello, old man.”
“Hello there, where have you been all these ages.”
“Oh! I don’t know…. It’s been weeks since I saw you.”
“Yes, it is …. You know it’s damned funny how two people living in the same camp can go for weeks without so much clapping eyes on each other.”
“That’s funny, I was talking to a man only yesterday about that. He had some mad scheme about ‘boarding out’ and ‘kriegie holidays’ and ..”
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..
“Kriegie holidays!.... sounds alright. What was the big idea?”
“Oh! It was a system of boarding out one man from each mess to some other mess for a week… quite well worked out, on the whole… but I had to tell him you’d never get everyone to agree.”
“You know, that’s not a bad idea – can you remember how it works?”
“Well I can give you a rough outline, but you’d really have to see the man to get the lowdown. It went something like this…Each Mess would set aside one bed as a holiday bed and it would be occupied, for a week, by a mess visitor who would not do any work in the mess during this stay. Of course, it would be a different visitor every week.”
“But what would happen to Joe? I mean the man who gave up his bed for the visitors.”
“That’s easy! He would be out visiting himself for the first week and when he came back, one of the others in the mess would go for his holidays, leaving his bed empty for the first fellow or Joe as you call him.”
“Oh! I see… it’s quite simple really – it’s a wonder it hasn’t been thought of before.”
“It has, I think. I heard that in one camp, squadron leaders would move from mess to mess a month at a time. It’s much the same.”
“It would be a good thing, you know. Have you noticed how new kriegies seem to bring new life to a mess? There’s always such a lot of new things to talk about.”
“Yes, that’s true – but I think the big thing would be a complete change for the visitor, one week out of every eight.”
“Yes, I get awfully tired of the same old faces, week after week. There’s one aspect that would be rather difficult. Wouldn’t it be a bind for the adjutant, never knowing where anyone was?”
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“Well of course, if the scheme came into practice, there would be an officer i/c Holidays, who would keep check on all the names and messes and make out lists from week to week; the numbers in the blocks would always be the same.”
“Look, old boy, I’ve got to go now, will you come over and natter to the mess about this to-morrow? I like the idea – come to tea.”
“Thanks a lot. I’d like to come. About four?”
“Yes, that’ll be grand – cheerio old boy!”
“Cheerio!”
…
Sunday long-distance day trains have been so poorly patronised for some time that in view of the heavy burdens places on the German Railways at the moment, their continuance seems inadvisable. Consequently all fast express trains, on Sundays, will be cancelled on the railway systems of Germany, the Protectorate and General Government area. The locomotives and railway personnel this released will shortly be diverted to essential good traffic. B.B.Z
…
Officers, Warrant Officers and N.C.O.’s who are attending classes in the Service Education Scheme are asked to note that a new programme of lectures has between posted in the usual place. This will take effect from 19th June, 1944.
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[Image]
“APPELL” OR ROLL CALL, WHEN, TWICE DAILY, WE WERE COUNTED BY THE GERMAN OFFICER IN CHARGE OF THE CAMP.
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[Image]
SET-BUILDING AND ORCHESTRA PRACTICE IN THE THEATRE.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 10th July, 1944
NUMBER TWENTY FIVE
EDITORIAL
The foreclosure of the theatre has brought the building and the entertainment staff into the front line of Camp politics. There is a large section of the community who consider that the theatre should now be administered by a committee which should supersede the autocracy at present in power. The feeling is a great tribute to the success of theatrical developments under the existing control; implying, as it does, that the whole matter is now too large and complex for one man to handle.
The LOG agrees with the opinion which advocates the institution of a committee and feels that this is a good opportunity to present its views on the subject. While recrimination is fruitless it is hoped that our suggestions for the future may prove helpful to those who will decide the policy.
We are informed that there should be no difficulty in replacing the floor horizontally, other than the replacement number of the piles upon it rests; this change would be a great boon to the general public because it would make the building suitable for such general activities as boxing, fencing, gymnasium, reading room and library, to mention only a few of the possibilities. It is realised that these activated would have to be fitted in with rehearsals and band practice, making it desirable that the membership of the committee should consist of an equal number of (theatrical) laymen and professionals.
There may be a feeling, particularly among the entertainments staff, that the LOG should not
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interfere in such matters; we can reply that these pages are only public expression of camp opinion and, as such, should deal with and discuss any non-officail matters affecting the general welfare. It should be remembered that the value of the theatre to members of the audience is, at present limited to two hours of amusement every 15 to 20 days, and, delightful though this may be, there are many who feel that the building is not being fully exploited for “THE GREATEST GOOD OF THE GREATEST NUMBER.”
We are sure that the people to whom these remarks apply will rise above petty annoyance and view the whole matter from a detached point of view. This expression of opinion is not designed or intended to detract in any way from our gratitude for the joy and amusement which they have, repeatedly, given us – we are sure that they will continue to do so. When the original plans for the theatre were accepted we had no idea that the camp would ever be so overcrowded; the present upheaval would seem to be a good opportunity to adapt ourselves to the new conditions.
…
Martin Glinberger, from Hohenwart, was recently inducted into the Landwacht for temporary emergency service. He arrived late at his first appell and also left before the order to dismiss had been given, so that it was necessary to send home a second notification, which he ignored.
He was similarly absent from a large scale muster doe a search for escaped prisoners-of-war and from a parade for allocation of guard duties. The Amtsgericht charged with his case very properly consideration a prison sentence justifiable and awarded him three months detentions. D.A.Z.
…
The harem has now been abolished in Iran. The new marriage law allows a maximum of two wives to every man, and only this is the consent of the first wife is forthcoming for the husband’s marrying again. K.Z.
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A BIRDS-EYE VIEW OF THE GREATEST MILITARY UNDERTAKING IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND
“I couldn’t understand it at all. It was raining and visibility was very poor. Then I saw that it wasn’t land at all, but a vast fleet of landing barges, literally thousands of them, They were packed so close together it looked just like solid land; I realised that the Invasion was on but I couldn’t stop to watch – I was on the way to bomb a coastal battery in France, I saw them again on the return trip and, as I crossed the English coast, I saw thousands of English aircraft heading South, while over England there were lights flickering in every direction as glider trains were being manoeuvres into position for the great attack.”
In these words one of the recent arrivals summed up his impressions. He added that the whole operation was started in extremely poor weather conditions and the low cloud hampered air operations to a great extent. Bomber crews were instructed to fly beneath the cloud base I the target was not visible from the predetermined bombing height. Numerous aerodromes and marshalling yards were bombed from heights between 1,000 and 2,000 feet, despite these tactics the losses from flak were negligible.
On the Sunday following the invasion Mr. Churchill said that the Light of London would be shining again for Christmas, 1944 and in a final message to the troops General Montgomery stated that they were entering the final battle against Germany, for all time, and declared that he had every confidence that the wear in Europe will be brought to a victorious conclusion by the autumn of this year.
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created by a 2,000 pound aerial bomb. Their speed is thought to vary between 350 and 450 miles per hour and many have been shot down by flak and night-fighters. London is her usual calm and phlegmatic self and carries on as usual. In England the weapon is regarded more as an instrument of propaganda for the German Home Front than as a major factor in the campaign.
In a recent statement Mr. Churchill said that prisoners-of-war in Germany would be repatriated to England within three weeks of the cessation of hostilities.
The war in the Pacific is progressing favourable. The Americans are establishing numerous air bases on the Chinese mainland and it is reported that two heavy raids have been made by B.29’s upon Japan. It is confidently predicted that this activity will increase during the next few months.
His MAJESTY THE KING made a personal visit of inspection to the Normandy bridgehead several days after the Invasion.
General (Field Marshall) Smuts and Mr. Churchill have also been seen in the battle area in France.
A large contingent of English girls who have married members of the Canadian Forces in England have left for Canada to get to know the country and prepare homes for their returning husbands.
The Americans have set up a special organisation in London to arrange for and assist with the affairs of the thousands of English girls who have married Americans.
…
“Young Canadian girls only report for military service because in this way they can travel overseas and thus not let their best prospects out of their sight, reports the News Chronical of Ottawa. The Canadian girls are very much disturbed because 16,000 of their by friends have already married overseas, particularly in England.
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These facts make them afraid that even the greatest love may not withstand the test of several years’ separation, coupled simultaneously with keen competition.” D. Angr.
…
D.F.C.’s. have been awarded to :- F/Lt. C. Pearce. F/O. R. Rogers.
RETREAT
CRUNCH, CRUNCH, CRUNCH, ON, ON… how tired the men are, yet we go on… why is it the other eight way up in front don’t look so tired as we do… they couldn’t so…perhaps with my thumbs under the straps the pack will be easier… no, I’ve tried that before… hot isn’t the word for this… better on the grass perhaps… look back again, they may be …Karen and the children must get back for them.. wish I was a kid and could have a good blubber … oh, it’s hot… helmet’s tighter … funny how I’ve got through two years of retreat without being caught .. wonder if I shall get home … oh darling, I must, I must.. a pilsner, a month’s pay for just one of’em now … pity to disturb these flowers with these bloody boots … still no on behind, but … oh, hell, why are they scattering in front – a tank – a Tiger? NO! – it’s THEM – yes, it’s them – run, run back again … but I can’t … down, flat, dust, flowers, choking …Karen, Karen, where are you?... where?...you …you…
…
Three years ago in Australia, two Avro Ansons collided in mid-air. Everyone bailed out except LAC Fuller, a trainee pilot of the lower aircraft. The two aircraft were locked together, but the pilot by using the controls of his own aircraft and the engines of the other which were still running managed to make a safe belly-landing.
Sequel: F/Lt. Fuller, D.F.C., was killed recently while riding a push bike.
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Beatrix Potter, the well known English author and illustrator of the famous children’s books, “Jeremy Fisher,” “Squirrel Nutkin,” “Pete Rabbit,” etc., died recently.
…
Stephen Leacock, Canadian professor of economics and popular humorous writer died a short time again.
THE DIARY OF P/O PEPYS, P.O.W. XXV
Monday, 3rd July. A.D. 1944
Another Monday, how the weeks do fly, for it was this day last week that we lost our theatre, the wash-house, aborts and classrooms, too. After some days we regained our wash-house and aborts, for if they had been taken apart as was our theatre, it would have been an odorous as well as odious prospect for us. Did this morning peep into the theatre and did see the shambles of the last week; some say it will remain so until the war’s end which may be true unless they quickly return it to us; this interference is not so well appreciated outside the camp. In spite of these disturbances and disruptions we are adaptable, even yestermorn our padres held an al fresco service, where the few rain drops only damped the organ. This evening two inhabitants of Tuck Tenements, that verminous Augean stable of the compound, did make a protest by choosing to sleep out of doors; but our guards, perturbed lest take cold, took them to the cooler – a seemingly illogical proceeding – however, due to the recent arrests and storage of our Red Cross food, the cells were full; so our two conscientious objectors were returned to their tenement, there being no gain to either side.
Thursday, 6th July
Today there was no search of our quarters, as there has been these last two mornings and some books arrived to while away our few remaining hours. I did learn that we shall be losing our Reference Libraries, for though the size of our compound is further reduced the numbers increase,
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So the libraries must move to other quarters. Came one to ask if I should prefer that we play cricket for three months, instead of football, to which I readily agreed. Tho’ I do not play either it would at least be good for a spectator, if we are to see the last match of the season at Lord’s. And so to bed, the O.K.W. communique reporting a steady closing of our friends upon all sides.
BREAKFAT ; 1015 hours :-
One Tin Salmon
One Tin Sardine
Biscuits (Canadian) and butter
Coffee
LUNCHEON: 1200 hours:-
½ Tin Bully Beef
Biscuits, butter and marmalade
Coffee
1400 hours:-
½ Tin Bully Beef
Biscuits, butter and marmalade
Coffee
1600 and 1800 hours: (each)
½ Tin York Roll
Biscuits, butter and Marmalade
Coffee
200 hours:-
Biscuits, butter and marmalade
Cheese
Coffee
Dry prunes, raisins and chocolate at frequent intervals.
This was the menu for the officer who, to clinch and argument, attempted to eat a full Canadian food parcel in 12 hours. The conditions stated that evacuation, other than by normal methods, disqualified the principal. The parcel contains some 14,000 calories and the normal kriegie’s daily diet provides at most 2,500 calories. It is of interest to mote that a lumber jack consumes, in one day, meals with a calorific value of 7,000. Apparently the butter was the most difficult item, to get down;
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It is reported that the officer ate a hearty breakfast the next morning and is now none the worse for his “bash.”
We are informed, by old kriegies, that this feat has been attempted many times, but this is first successful one. The point that is t can be done has now been proven and it is hoped that no further food will be wasted in this way.
…
General Montgomery is now in command of all British and American troops in France.
THE BOOMERANG CLUB
The inaugural meeting of the Belaria Boomerang Club took place during last week. It was attended by 34 Australians who selected the title of the club and proceeded to elect officers.
Various titles were suggested, “Abbo Club,” “Wallaby Club,” and “Kangaroo Club” being among these which were rejected. A chairman and secretary were appointed and additional posts of entertainment, sports and education officers were filled. The “Social and Entertainment Officer “ will, in addition to his other duties, welcome and assist any new Australian prisoners who may arrive.
The membership of the club is open to any Australian at Belaria and its avowed objects are to look after the sporting, educational and social activities of Australians in the camp.
Meetings will be held fortnightly and will include a short talk of general interest. The first of these talks will be given by F/O Carmody, who will discuss the achievements of the R.A.A.F. cricket team in England
….
The present personnel of the camp is 728 officers and N.C.O.’s. The figure is made up as follows:-
British Isles (Including Brit. Nats.) 449
Canadian “ “ “ “ 184
Australian “””” 40
New Zealand “”” 28
South African “”” 27
And three rabbits of uncertain parentage.
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Joe Lewis, who is still in England, has stated that he is not going to defend his title. His present engagements are confined to entertainments for the Troops.
…
Five-day Test matches are to be abolished. County cricket will be restricted to 2-day matches
…
The question of demobilisation has been discusses in the House and we are informed that the following conclusions were published :-
Servicemen are to be discharged in the following order –
1st Preference : Married Men
2nd “ Men with their own businesses.
3rd “ Prisoners of War.
4th “ Length of Service.
…
The Daily Worker is in circulation again in the United Kingdom, its reporters are not, however, allowed within the fighting zone.
…
The Duchess of Gloucester has cancelled all her engagements.
…
Douglas Fairbanks, Junr., has been awarded the Silver Star for Gallantry in the Mediterranean theatre. He has recently visited Corsica.
…
Mr. Winston Churchill recently asked the House for a vote of confidence. The voting of 360 – 4 in favour of the motion will ensure that the Education Bill is passed by the Commons. The school leaving age of 16 has been one of the moat controversial points of the debated on this Bill. One of the speakers in this series of debated found it necessary to remark that : “Of Course the Public Schools are open to all classes.”
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THEY’RE SAYING IT IN GERMANY
Dr. Walter Trautmann in the Pariser Zeitung:-
“The enemies in the East and West will not take the fences built in front of them. For a year and a half the Reich has been taking blow after blow, without being diverted from the preparations for the decision which is now at hand. We have reached the point when the last cards in this unequalled conflict are played and the far-sighted German policy will bear fruit.. So take your course
Destiny…We are sure of this – that History will judge that we Germans have done more than our duty towards the land of the setting sun.”
…
The Borsen Zeitung: “Although our armies, in the frame of the difficult retreating movements, have taken up the approximate position when we the advance in 1941 started battles have had the important result of weakening the Soviet Armed Forces, so decisively, that it is only with a crushing numerical superiority that they are able to take up the fight with the German and their Allies.
…
From Hitler’s funeral oration over General Oberst Dietl :-
“May his example pervade and inspire many German officers and Generals; may they learn how to be hard as well as, occasionally, gracious; how to be ruthless in their demands as well as considerate for the soldiers and their trouble. May they above all, learn how to radiate confidence under all circumstances; especially in periods of crisis – in order to exalt every single man - and how to repudiate every single thought that a battle backed by the fanaticism of a whole nation, would end otherwise than in victory, no matter how the situation might be at the moment.
…
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From a speech by Hitler at a reception held last week:
“One day Victory will compensate us all for what every single man has had to sacrifice; the troubles he has had to bear and the blood he and his family have had to pay.”
…
Der Angriff reports that the English defence is so helpless before the attacks of the weapon VI that the King has “given private instructions to his subjects, which ignore the Royal Air Force, the A.A. and the Balloon Barrage. He declared, plainly and simply, ‘I believe the only possibility of protection, if one sees the thing flying at one, is to throw oneself on the ground, and, in a crouching position, to await developments.’”
…
The Vice-President of the U.S.A., Wallace, during the recent visit to Chungking, prophesied that the Sino-Japanese war would end within the next twelve months. Das R.
…
“And so the task of carrying on the offensive devolved mainly on the U-boats, with their familiar great success, which, since the middle of 1943, were temporarily checked by technical defences. With our available means it was impossible to come up against the enemy’s overwhelming sea-power, which finally enabled him to send considerable striking forces to England, North Africa and S. Italy – and this defines the present naval situation. It may be asked:” Where are the battleships and the U-boats now?; as to the latter, the closely watched Channel area, unfavourable for operations under water, offers but limited possibilities and it is much more profitable for them to engage the enemy on the open sea-routes and at the Western Exit; thus forcing him to take maximum security measures and rendering his supply problem acute.
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The bulk of the U-boats are still being modified. To engage the few heavy units against the superior forces concentrated in the Channel would mean their immediate loss without corresponding gain. They are more important elsewhere.”
(From an article about naval aspects of the Invasion, written by the German Rea Admiral Gadow).
…
The bane “V.I, “ in which “V” stands for “VERGELTUNG” (retaliation) is an indication that the weapon is but the first of a series of retaliatory weapons, with which the enemy will have to reckon in the near future. D.A.Z.
DIVINE SERVICES for Sunday, 6th July 16th.
(Fourth Sunday after Trinity)
0930 hours – Holy Communion, Chapel.
1115 hours – Camp Service, C. of E.
Hymns: “Immortal, Invisible, God only wise”
“Lead, kindly Light”
“Love Divine, all Loves excelling”
Preachers : Rev. W.E.K. Rankin.
1815 hours – Evening Prayers, C. of E.
Hymns: “All praise to Thee, my God this night”
“Father of Peace and God of Love”
Address: Rev. W.E.K. Rankin.
Last month’s total of 2,363 incoming letter hits a new level. 70 per cent. of these letters were from the Dominions. A few early April letters have arrived from the U.K., and it appears that, earlier in this year, our letters were taking about 2 ½ months
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to reach their destinations. The S.B.O. in the East Camp has made very strong protests to the mail department and an improvement is hoped for.
The “Express” forms are taking just as long as the normal mail.
475 Reichmarks was paid to the Germans for air mail charges in June.
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The Swedish athlete, Gunder Haegg, has beaten one of his own world records by covering two miles in 8 mins. 46.4 secs.
…
The Daily Mail reports that land workers in South East England have been issued with steel helmets to protect them from continual fall of A.A. barrage shrapnel. D.A.Z.
LITTLE TALKS
(with apologies to A.P.H.)
“Fifteen two … fifteen four and two’s eight…”
“God! You’re driving me mad with that blasted game.”
“Sorry, old boy… I didn’t quite catch what you said?”
“Oh! Nothing, I’m sorry…I’ve got blackout blues. Don’t take any notice of me.”
“We’ve finished now, what are black-out blues?”
“Don’t you know?... doesn’t it ever worry you?... this 10 to 12 shoulder to shoulder shut in, swearing, sweating, sardine tine of a barrack house. It’s the same every night: and what can you do? You come in at ten o’clock and sit down to supper – you get up from supper, you pick up a book, you put it down again…noise!! …noise!...noise! The House of Stone was nothing to this…ten till twelve from now till the cows come home.”
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“Yes, I know, but it’s the same everywhere. All over the world, in War and Peace, people curse these two hours. They are the lowest ebb of life’s disappointment…think of London… business has ceased and entertainments are dragging to a close.. too late for dinner and too early for the night clubs… trains and buses crowded with people who are wishing that they were at home without the bother of getting there, most of them thinking of the horrors of the morrow…I read a good description of it somewhere…or maybe it was a play.”
“thinking of other people being miserable doesn’t make me particularly happy.”
“I’m coming to that…First of all, you’ve got to realise that being in prison camp isn’t the only cause of your particular ‘low’ although I’d be the last to deny that this place is pretty bloody. The, when you’ve managed to isolate the causes, you can start thinking about the counter-measures… I don’t like to shoot the “old kriegies” line, but how do you think we got through the winter. You may not have to face that problem but you can tackle your present difficulties easily.”
“And what does the Oracle suggest?”
“Well you’ve got to accept the fact there will always be noise and if it disturbs your reading, you must find something to do where the noises makes no difference. There are lots of different ways… I knew a fellow who used to spend each evening in a different mess and worked round the rooms in rotation, another fellow made a list of all the things he had to do next year, John makes model aircraft and Jimmy fills up his log book. I play cards myself…It doesn’t matter what you do, so long as you make it a routine, Treat is as something which must be done, like washing up and so on. Form a ten to twelve habit and you’ll find the time passes… but you must excuse me …I must get my bed before the lights go out.”
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BEHIND THE SCENES
The situation in theatreland is causing a lot of speculation and rumour, these latter vary from the people who say it will open this week to those who contend that it will not open again as a theatre at all. “FRENCH WOTHOUT TEARS” will be presented as soon as possible, if it does open again. The new instruments, with the exception of the piano, have arrived and the band is enthusiastically rehearsing the new music which arrived simultaneously.
The visit of the Y.M.C.A. representative was of little interest, the only business being the placing of orders to meet our future requirements.
…
A haystack was burnt in Piccadilly recently, during a large harvest workers’ rally.
[Image- Spring time for Henry]
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PORTS NOTES
The Germans show no sign of commencing their building operations on the Sports field so it may be worth while laying down a running track; if there are enough keen athletes to justify the trouble, as meeting will be held in about six weeks’ time. As soon as the track is completed the field will, doubtless, be put out of bounds for construction work, this is a risk that cannot be avoided. The football season closes on Tuesday and work will be started on a cricket pitch; we have no roller but attempts are being made to hire one.
Net practice is a problem as we have so few balls, tennis balls (soaked in water) will have to suffice.
Preparation of the pitch will start on Wednesday and it is hoped that enthusiasts will give their full support.
[Image –Famous Last words 3.]
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ROUND AND ABOUT
One of our reporters strolled around the camp last week, it was the first time he’s ever done it with his eyes open (we didn’t mean to tell you his name) and some of his observations were amusing.
He spent the last two days, since his epic walk, trying to find the moral portrayed by seven kriegies leaning over the walls of the rabbit’s play pen and laughing like help at their efforts to escape. He also made a note that, although the temperature has risen, the efforts at keeping the swill bin areas clean seem to have decreased, while the abort sported a large number of open and unoccupied seats. This will lead to inevitable trouble unless everybody will really co-operate.
Since the theatre was ripped apart, we have been wallowing in reprisals, even worshipping and washing being subjected to the jack boot. We are an adaptable community, however, and the news and weather took the edge off these incidents, helping is to realise that such futile behaviour had no ultimate consequence.
One other point upon which a note was made, is it possible to divert a little of our gardening energy and enthusiasm to clear the paths and other wasted acres of the weeds, thistles, dandelions etc., which abound there.
At this point in his observations the reporter passed the sports field wire and buttonholing an interpreter, he became so absorbed in listening in to Canada’s national sport that he forgot his assignment. If we can wake him up in time we’ll send him out again this week and report his opinions in the next issue.
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The orchestra will be giving an open-air concert next Wednesday.
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[Image Glimpses into the future. 1.]
[Image – Glimpses into the future.2.]
This and the following pages contain some of the weekly “ENTRACT” cartoons from copies of the “LOG” not republished.
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[Image – Glimpses into the future No.3]
[Image – Glimpses into the future 5]
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[Image - Popular misconceptions (at home ) 1]
[Image – Popular misconceptions (in Camp) 2]
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[Image – Popular misconceptions (at home) 3]
[Image – Popular misconceptions (at home) 7]
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THE LOG
BELARIA 4th September, 1944
NUMBER TWENTY-NINE
EDITORIAL
WE are told that the war is not in its sixth year and that we should take Editorial notice of the fact. What is one to say about it? It would be easy to moralise or wax sentimental, or even, perhaps, to talk about the tots who are wondering, like the child of our cartoon what the word “Peace” means. It could be great theme and – for that very reason – your Editor refuses to tackle it. Our contemporaries like the Times and Manchester Guardian will doubtless carry leasers on the subject which you will be able to read when you have returned and con no longer get your LOG. It would seem that our ample stocks of food and cigarettes, etc., are causing embarrassment to our custodians and that the amount we may keep in our rooms is to be limited. The only logical reason we can find for this action is that the Germans which to be in the position to withhold all or some of our food and tobacco should they ever wish to force our hand.
The office boys is reflecting out feelings when he explains to visitors that he is not in his usual state of torpor because every time he wales up another few towns are written off in France and it is such a bother catching up, we only hope that the troops don’t ever come to feel the same thing. Our military adviser has authorised us to say that it is his considered opinion that we are unlikely to be here next September, unless you are considering a tour of Silesia under the auspices of Strength through Joy – and, , if you must have Joy – well, charity, after all, begins at home.
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THE LAST PHASE
An article under the title “The Secrets of the last Phase of the War” was published in the D.A>Z. of 30th August. Owing to its length we are only able to publish extracts:-
“In six months, at the most, we shall all realise what few now know – that this last phase of the war, which commenced on 16th June, 1944, has a secret – and that the last three months have a character very different from that which we believe. This period is the most dramatic that is was a matter of seconds and millimetres and that is must have been possible to calculate why Germany won. It is fantastic… as fact look very much otherwise for us now. Kharkov fell, Stalingrad fell, etc., … and the Russians still came on …Kiev fell.. they are in front of Warsaw, Cracow and East Prussia… Divisions were thrown against them and had to withdraw… Regiments disappeared … Supplied vanished in the Russian more… there is a shortage of guns and tanks… something must stop them… but they still advance. In Italy… Rome falls .. the English are on the march… bringing up their crazy masses of guns and aircraft, and now they are in Florence.
On the 6th June… The Invasion … with its raging inferno of bombs and shells .. the counter attacks collapse and increasingly the bombers roll over Germany and Lay our towns in ruins … A frightful picture … but the picture is false, if we did not know this then Churchill could teach us, as it looks very different to him too. In six months everyone will know this. We came very close to forcing a decision in 1940, it failed due to Soviet Russia…joining forces with capitalism ... England breathed again… “General Time” began to work… Now we know why we are making the final effort and it is not beyond our strength. We have never given up in a critical position. The last price we have to pay will be paid, with every method and all out strength.
VICTORY IS REALLY VERY NEAR.
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“OUR OWN LITTLE SHELLS”
“All I want to do when I get back is to crawl into my own shell and lead my own life within my own small circle. To hell with the British Empire.” So spoke an officer friend of mine, a man of considerable experience, on the circuit a few days ago.
One (being English) wonders how many Englishmen subscribed to this point of view and how many will devote much thought to the business of governing the country after the glad return.
Here, in a prison camp, are to be found many people who will talk, intelligently and otherwise, about England, her political shortcomings, her economic problems, and her social evils. Some with rare feel, even vitriolic; others with a curious sense of detachment, as though reluctant to realise that such problems exist and are theirs to solve.
It is difficult to judge whether the unusual conditions under which we now live tend to focus extra attentions on these questions, or whether it is that world events of recent years have awakened a new sense of civil responsibility in the minds of hitherto regardless citizens.
On our return to England and the resumption of normal life, many subjects of thought and discussion which loom large on our present horizons will assume minute proportions against the distractions of re-discovered freedom and, in many cases, the bustle of return to civilian careers. How many minds will be diverted this from the pressing problems of the nation? With the grim and bitter example before us of personal indifference to national and world events of the pre-war years, resulting in the greatest of catastrophes, can we afford not to display the keenest of interest in the affairs of Britain and the world at large?
It is to be hoped that, in the very near future, the pressing need for enlightenment and instruction and stimulation in the art of civil administration, both local and national, will be met by revised
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curricula in all of our schools. Meanwhile, a gap remains to be filled. It is abundantly clear that our generation must fill it.
Should we crawl into our own little shells?
ALLES IST VERBOTEN
These extracts from the D.A.Z. will give readers some idea of the restrictions which were recently introduced. It is emphasised that these are only a few from a most impressive list:-
All theatres, variety shows, cabarets and dramatic schools etc., to be closed.
All circuses to be reduced to the minimum necessary to keep animals alive.
All orchestras, music schools, etc., to be disbanded or closed forthwith. The only exceptions to this ruling are some of the leading combinations who will be used for broadcasting.
Creative Art – All exhibitions, competitions, academies and private art schools to be closed forthwith.
”The daily press to be limited to a few four page “rational” dailies who may only publish one edition per day. The Illustrierte Beobachter and the Berlin Illustrierte are to be the only magazines. All non-technical publications and writings are prohibited, with the exception of school books and standard political works.
All the “Strength through Joy” (ENSA type) entertainments for the Forces are to be stopped, with the sole exception of radio and film programmes.
The Minister of Public Instructions has introduced restrictions in education to enable tens of thousands of boys and girls whose comrades have long been working for the war effort to be freed for this effort.
A single basic ration card, to cover all the essentials, has been introduced. This will save 200,000,000 cards in every six-monthly rationing period.
Working hours in public administrative offices, etc., to be standardised at a weekly minimum of sixty hours.
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General stoppage of all leave, with the exception of men over 65 and women over 50 years of age.
The introduction of a new” Order of Security of the total War Effort.” Whereby the law can proceed with the utmost severity against those who carelessly or intentionally, sabotage the war effort, Imprisonment or fines can be imposed, with penal servitude or death, in severe cases.
Recent arrivals report that a memorial service for the fifty R.A.F. officer= prisoners-of-war who were shot by the Germans was held at the famous London church, St. Martin’s-in-the –Fields.
…
Bicycles must be very scarce at home. A man who bought a second-hand bicycle for £1 in 1937 has just sold it for £7 10s. 0d.
…
The Australian Government is now controlling the price of second-hand cars throughout the country.
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The New Zealand Government has discharged a number of men who have over four year’s war service. In some cases these men were recalled from the Middle East.
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Scottish shipyards are reported to be in full production, and even to be putting in full overtime.
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A film biography of Gentleman Jim Corbett has been made, with Errol Flynn in the title role.
The film version of “Dear Octopus” has been showing in South Africa.
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English and South African churches held daily services during the early days of the invasion.
There are very few new books in the Fiction Library shelves at the moment, and there is little prospect of getting more from home. We therefore appeal to you to donate any personal books with which you have finished.
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TEST MATCH
13th August, 1944
The hour’s postponement of this early awaited game was scarcely enough to allow our ire to subside at the sight of dozens of frolicsome Germans cavorting heavily on the carefully prepared wicket. However, no great damage was done and the many spectators settled down in the warm sunshine with great hopes of some interesting cricket. They were not disappointed.
England won the toss and elected to field, the bowling being opened by Wainwright from the Sagan end. Australia’s opening pair, Grimbly and G. Smith, seemed well at home right from the start and out on 24 runs before Grimbly’s wicket fell to Wainwrights’s consistently good-length bowling. Grimbly’s effortless 20 showed us some fine strikes, while Smith scored a useful 11 before Kelshall send his ball flying. Kelshall was replaces by Norrie, but by now, with Hogg and Carmody obviously on top of bowling, Australia seemed set fort at least 200 runs. However, the unexpected dismissal of the latter, l.b.w. from what appeared to be ab easy ball, closely followed by Hogg who scooped another back into the bowler’s hand, gave matters a different aspect. Particularly so when the Kangaroo’s tail didn’t even quiver, and with the rapid fall of the last seven wickets the went only from 107 for 3 to 126 all out, of which Carmody scored a polished an forceful 62 and Hogg a well-needed 17. England’s fieldling included some remarkable pick-ups and was irreproachable throughout. Norrie’s bowling took 5 wickets for 25, while Wainwright bowled valiantly through the who innings, capturing 3 wickets for 60.
England’s inning was a tale of dogged effort in the face of very accurate and difficult bowling. The opening pair, Strong and Rice, clearly were ill at ease, and before lunch the latter feel to Keen, brining Kelshall in to bat. Pearson’s spins puzzled him at first, but he made himself at home and scored 57 in a very polished innings before being
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bowled in the moist simple of fashion by Pearson. Carmody replaced Keen at the Sagan end, and later Todd, with his curious action and vicious spins. Both held the batsmen down, though Goodall scored a stylish and badly-needed 12 for England before being caught by G. Smith off Pearson. At this point England’s chances looked very good, but wickets fell quickly for very few hard-won runs, leading to the climax when England’s last batsman went to the crease needing to make but 4 runs to win. Barely had these been wrested from the bowler hen Hogg caught Turner of Pearson, leaving England winning the winner by one solitary run. Among others, Strong’s opening 15 and Pease’s 12 were invaluable.
Australia’s bowlers, of whom Pearson was most successful, with 8 wickets for 70, kept the English batsmen worried from the start to finish, and has their field been up to standard of England’s the result would have been very different. As it was, England deserved her victory, and the spectators enjoyed the first-class cricket played, as well as the tense finish.
May we have more!
BEHIND THE SCENES
Reconstruction work in the theatre was completed well ahead of schedule, but unfortunately sickness of some of the musicians prevented the band giving an early performance. Consequently “Someone at the Door,” a comedy in three acts, produced by W/O Lawrence, open on the 28th.
Following this is a programme which includes radio plays =, band shows, straight plays, films and “music hours,” providing entertainment until the end of October.
A second One Act Play competition is being run, this time open to all, and it is hoped the actors and producers, new and old, will make this at least as successful as the last competition.
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[Image – Belaria Theatre Dressing Room – 1944]
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“IN FRANCE 280 TERROISTS WERE KILLED...”
It was in August of 1939 that I started a mountaineering holiday in the Haute Savoie district of France. A holiday during which I was to learn of the contempt with which the French of those parts held the enemy; a holiday which was to terminate so suddenly with the news of the German advance through Poland.
And now all I have left of those days are the memories. Memories of old friends and the grandeur of the scenery. Jean, who was the fat postman of St. Gervais; Renee, the student at the Grenoble University; and Georges, my drunken friend of the Chasseurs Alpins. Those rugged peaks, a natural frontier between France and Italy, and those deep, narrow valleys, so cool in the evening.
War dared to intrude into those parts and the world deserted them. It was then that “the Maquis” was formed. They called themselves “the Maquis” because in Corsica the maquis is that undergrowth which covers the interior of the island, very wild and secretive.
They obtained arms and ammunition and became so powerful that, when the Germans refused to release the 80 hostages taken in Grenoble, at the expiration of the time limit proposed, the army barracks on that town were blown to pieces. 200 Germans were killed.
They were hunted down, trapped, dispersed, and still they reformed, an eternal flame of liberty in that corner of France. Jean must now be carrying messages for them. Renee has probably nursed their sick; and the drunken Georges will certainly leas a group of saboteurs. And those rugged mountain – what hiding places they conceal; those dark valleys – what natural ambuscades.
It is now August of 1944, an August which sees the Germans going through Poland again – this time in a different direction.
And so, these evenings when we stand in from of the communique, pencil in one hand and cigarette
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packet in the other, excitedly noting down the great Russian drive and the Allied attacks, let us remember the debt we owe when we read “ …. And in France, 280 Terrorists were killed.”
SPORTS’ NOTES
ATHLETICS. The running track should be finished by Wednesday, and a plan showing distances, etc., will be shown on the sports notice board. A jumping pit will be constructed for high and long jump practice. An effort will be made to arrange a training period before morning appel, and in addition, if there is sufficient interest, a further hour each day.
FENCING. Masks have not yet arrived so an expert “tin-basher” is busy working on the Mark 1. Until a set is available, only preliminary instruction will be possible. Will all those desiring instruction give their names to F/Lt. G. Sproates, (hospital) who will arrange classes. The names of those with previous experience are also required.
BASEBALL. A second diamond is to be tried out in the bottom left-hand corner of the sports field, and if the outfield is not too complicated games will be played on both diamonds at the same time.
A young woman has been brought to justice in Aix-La-Chapelle for falsely describing herself as a mother, and thereby obtaining extra ration coupons. A friend of hers had swapped these coupons with her for cigarette. Both girls received appreciable prison sentences.
??????? BRT. VERSENKT
The English Merchant Navy must admit that it has lost the war – this is clearly proved by an article from the pen of the British Naval expert Sit Archibald Hurd in the London monthly Nineteenth Century and After. Hurd state point blank: “Germany has succeeded in overthrowing England from her proud position on the seas” The English Merchant Navy suffered the heaviest losses – hundreds of big
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liners, oil tankers, et., were lost. About 28,000 experienced officers and men of the Merchant Navy have lost their lives. In this war the British Merchant Navy has been crippled. D. Ang.
…
According to a report from the American Periodical News Weekly, the inflexible and proud attitude of German Prisoners- of -War in England and America is causing concern in Washington.
These young men, the article points out, are Nazis to the core. When they return to Germany after the war they will form a firm nucleus, around which a strong Germany will gather. News Weekly says that “realistic” measures are being prepared in Washington – although, as the paper admits, political education of P.O.W.’s is probibited [sic] by the Geneva Convention. D. Ang.
“ONE THING AT A TIME” or “KRIEG IST KRIEG UND SCHNAPPS IST SCHNAPPS”
The United States Army Command has warned American soldiers that it will take a poor view of any marriages between then and French women.
The Washington Post carried an article amount a brochure which has been issued to all American soldiers warning them of the undesirability of relations with the women of the country which they would be passing. The Frenchwoman, it said, is not the frivolous person portrayed in Hollywood films – most of them wish to get married and settle down.
The soldiers have been warned that they cannot expect free transport for women whom they have married in defiance of these instructions and that it may be difficult for them to get into the United States.
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The Reichsminister for Air has issued a new order relating to “public Air Raid Warning.” All business and public activity and all traffic is to
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continue normally during these periods. It is not permissible, therefore, to resort to air raid shelter or more distant refuges when the sirens sound. Only when the seeking of shelters is recommended by radio may factory air raid wardens order people to the shelters. V.B.
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1,577,000 voted against 1,396,000 rejected the Australian Government’s plea for retention of its special powers for five years after the war. V.B.
…
EXTRACTS FROM “NOWOJE SLOWO”
During the last terror attack on Berlin counterfeit ration cards were dropped. They were meant for travellers and restaurants. Anyone who finds these cards and does not give them up is liable to the heaviest punishment.
The dropped ration cards are easily distinguishable from the official ones. The headings are larger, the writing is less legible and there is brighter. Above all, the counterfeit meat coupons are made of white tissue, whereas correct coupons are printed on a coloured background.”
The Berlin Emergency Court sentences the couple Arthur and Marianne Peikert of Guterberg to two years imprisonment for attempting to buy sausage and cheese with counterfeit ration cards, dropped form enemy aircraft. The sentence of 15 months imprisonment and two years loss of honour was imposed on Anna Domke, of Blankenfield, for similar offence.”
“At 0500 hours on the morning of 1st August the insurrection of the Polish ‘Bandits’ erected barricades, or coerced the civilian population to do so. They had their strongholds in buildings, covering the streets with their fire, hampering the traffic of the city, and obstructing the main cross-roads.
The Wehrmacht freed the vital centres with immediate counter-measures, re-took the Power station and inflicted heavy casualties upon the
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‘bandits’ The bandits put up a strong resistance despite Stuka attacks against their main points of resistance and , in some cases, fought to the last rifle to maintain their blockade of cross-roads etc., they even continued to resist in bombed and burning houses. Their methods are cunning and ruthless. Their aim is to create chaos, especially among the “East” troops serving with Wehrmacht. The bandits are mainly recruited from young men between the ages of 15 and 21 years.” V.B.
…
On first looking into a British Red Cross Parcel and seeing the Meat Roll:-
From time to time the human race
Has tampered with its meals,
And teeth have clamped on even worse
Than tripe, or jellied eels.
Sweeny Todd, with sharpened blade,
Whipped “bods” beneath his floor,
Then Mrs. Todd with skilful hands
Made pies of them next door.
An ancient witch, with dark intent,
Abducted Hans and Grete;,
And named them for her plat du jour
Buy roasting them in metal.
A dusky Amazonian tribe
So something quaintly sicking -
Catch beetled under mossy stones
And munch them while still kicking.
More recently, an Aryan race,
In search of something news,
Make bread to feed their hungry mobs
From sawdust, rye and glue.
But all these gents are somewhat old,
Their history rather musty,
We have an entrant to the ring,
Presenting – Mr Lusty.
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Now that we have a “warning wire to keep us from touching it, that old term “warning rail” seems rather redundant. Why not the “no-warning rail?”
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Internal Abwehr reports a very daring and successful escape participated in by the S.B.R. and two other rabbit of junior ranks. The attractive reward offered has produced no results, but a distinct odour of rabbit-stew could be detected escaping from Block Ones’s kitchen the other day.
The needles, please, Watson.
“SOMEONE AT THE DOOR”
“Beggars can’t be choosers” and the producer made the best of an uninspired play with his most enjoyable presentation of “Someone at the Door.” Farce fought realism to carry melodrama without mustachios.
“Ronnie” gained on the swings of laughter what he lost on the roundabout of dramatic effect; had he used a little more restraint he would have been very convincing, nevertheless he was laughter-maker-in-chief.
The acting and female mannerisms of his sister Sally were was marred by lack of dramatic feeling, consistently good and showed great promise.
The confident portrayal of “Bill Reid” was marred by lack of dramatic feeling, but Sgt. Spedding showed admirable restraint in a part which would have been spoiled by burlesque. His subordinate, Constable O’Brien, was his equal in characterisation and serves as an excellent foil to his stolid official dignity.
I was delighted with the superb portrayal of “Price” by the producer. He made us laugh, thrilled us, horrified us and yet in the end had our sympathy
.
The only complaint, and that was a small one, was with the performance of “Kappel,” the squire-villain. He was less successful as the villain than he was as the squire, this shortcoming, couples with badly written third act, was responsible or a slight fall of interest towards the end of the play.
The setting designed by F/Lt Allen, the lighting, the backstage effects and the costumes were well up to the highest standard we have come to expect.
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In looking forward to W/O Lawrence’s next productions I suggest that he should consider the play as a whole rather than as the vehicle for individual character parts and aim for a cohesion which does not allow interest to lag for a moment. Nevertheless, he gave us two hours of excellent entertainment, which we thoroughly enjoyed.
THE MERRY-GO-ROUND
Who are the people who have the infernal impudence to write factious and would-be intellectual remarks in the margins of our library books? The book A more than Happy Countryman is a case in point. Certain opinions are expressed by the author, and some vandal has seen fit to annotate all points of disagreement. This is one of the more unpleasant forms of selfishness and an expression of intellectual snobbishness.
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A camp grocer has been appointed which will combine these duties with that of tobacconist-in-chief. This officer will be responsible for the storage of food, etc., under the scheme. We are informed, although, we don’t believe it, that he is racket-proof and a non-smoker.
…
The busy rush of affairs is the camp seems to make it impossible for many members of theatre audience to arrive punctually. We are certain that of these same people had paid a guinea or so for the seat they would arrive on time – anyhow, it’s damned bad manners.
Who said “Autumn for Henry?” –
…
General der Infanterie Arthur Hauffe, General commanding an Army Corps, has been killed in the battle of East of Lemberg. D.Ang.
…
Officers who wish to order a copy of the LOG, souvenir edition, are requested to call at Room 2, Block 6, between the houses of 14500 and 1530 on Wednesday and Thursday of this week.
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SQUANDERED YEARS
Of the many pressing questions which will call for attention after returning to England in the near future that of education is one to be placed very high on the list.
As we all know, some only too well, this subject has been food for endless controversy for many weary years.
Of all its aspects, however, it would seem that insufficient constructive attention has been paid to the question of school curricula, to decide whether generally they are outmoded and, if so, to instate measures designates to revise the subject matter being taught in the majority of schools.
There seems to be small room for doubt that the war years, bringing with them new and hitherto unknown, responsibilities, have inculcated into our generation a different perspective, broader knowledge and a revised, if not entirely new, set of values. The majority of us may say, at the risk of appearing smug, that in the light of our wider contact with other people from all counties we are better able to realise the value of our respective educations and to judge what proportion has been of any practical use since our classroom days. Many realise the futility of much that we learnt. Other recall with bitterness, the lack of guidance from disinterested teachers and unwise parents at a time when their own values were juvenile and they were unable to appreciate the potential worth of the subjects they we restudying, or neglecting to study, as the case might have been.
War-time environments and the contemplation of the fast-approaching problems of reversion to civilian careers tend to recall these shortcomings of our educational syllabi. Thus we can more readily appreciate the advantages that may accrue to future scholars by timely consideration of this aspect of the education systems.
Many people feel that much more attention in our schools should be devoted to subjects of practical value, such as civics, international affairs, physiology….
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[Image – MAJOR BARBARA]
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[Image – FRENCH WITHOUT TEARS]
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NOTICE
INFORMATION HAS BEEN RECEIVED FROM THE GERMAN AUTHORITIES THAT CERTAIN AREAS IN GERMANY, APPARENTLY IN THE VICINITY OF THEIR ARMAMENT AND WAR INDUSTRIES, HAVE BEEN PRESCRIBED IN WHICH ANY UNAUTHORISED PERSON IS LIABLE TO BE SHOT ON SIGHT.
A REQUEST FOR MAPS SHOWING THESE AREAS HAS BEEN REFUSED ON THE GRUNDS THAT IT IS UNDESIRABLE FOR THE GERMAN AUTHORITIES TO PUBLISH AREAS IN WHICH THEIR ARMAMENTS INDUSTRIES ARE SIUTATED.
ANY PRISONER OF WAR WHO ESCAPES OR CONTEMPLATES AN ESPACE IS ADVISED TO AVOID SUCH AREAS IF POSSIBLE.
GROUP CAPTAIN,
Senior British Officer,
28th September, 1944
This notice was publically displayed, much to the bewilderment of the German Staff who tool it all very seriously – ED.
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[Image – MUSIC SOCIETY OF LOWER SILESIA]
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THE LOG
BELERIA Christmas, 1944
VOLUME TWO
NUMBER FIVE
EDITORIAL
We hope that the repatriates who left on Friday last are now well on the way home, speeded by our good wishes and hopes for the recovery when they achieve civilised conditions. One or two members of each of these parties has promised to write news letters from home they have never materialised, but we may hope that one at least of this party will be able to spare us the time an thought.
The skating rinks have been very popular and it is no uncommon sight to see several of the camp personalities flat on their backs in various corners of the rink at the same time. I am told that this is an essential part of learning the art and am reminded of happier days on the staff of a wartime flying training school, where a large number of the pupils seemed to think that the same qualification applies.
The Christmas show is over and has been generally voted the best of its kind. Whilst agreeing with this vote of approval I would suggest that, if all shows are now going to last for more than two hours, the signature tune of the band might well be “Cheek to Cheek.” The innovation of “brews” at half-time was a success and we feel it is only a matter of time before the backstage experts have entered a stalls and pit bar.
Our producers are becoming more ambitious ad we hear that G.B.Shaw’s “St. Joan” is going into rehearsal. This should be very interesting test of ability for the producer and actors involved and we are understand that the stage may be widened to enable an adequate set deign to be built.
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FOR THE MEMORIAL SERVICE FOR THE 50 OFFICERS WHO GAVE THEIR LIVES IN MARCH, 1944
The ceremony held at the Stalag Luft III cemetery during the afternoon of 4th December, 1944, was attended by the Senior British Officers of the three Royal Air Force compounds, two padres and thirty other Officers, representative of the nationalities of the fallen.
A memorial, as shown in the accompanying illustration, has been erected. The three tablets shown in the drawing are engraved with the names of the Officers who were killed and the large inscription across the front of the cairn is shown at the foot of the sketch.
The Service was also attended by the Swiss Minister to Germany and M. Naville, of the Swizz Embassy, accompanied by Major Dr. Simoleit, of the Lager Staff at Sagan.
At the conclusion of the Service, which was conducted by Padres Goudreau and Jones of the North Camp, a trumpeter sounded the Last Post and wreathes were laid by the Senior British Officers and by M. Neville, on behalf of the Protecting Power.
The Swiss Ambassador shook hands with the three Group Captains before leaving and expressed the sincere sympathy of the Swiss Nation,
“At the going down of the sun
An in the morning,
We shall remember them.”
…
Wreaths were laid on the tombs of Clemenceau and Marshal Foch by Winston Churchill, during one of his recent visits to Paris. D.A.Z.
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THE LAST TRUMP
Whether “fanfare” was a Requiem for the Old Year or a salute to the New remains in doubt, that the production fulfilled our expectations and earned it’s title us clear – (loud and clear).
Some people, quite a number apparently appreciate crooners and twitch kids, other tolerate them, of course this is a season of almost unlimited good will. Humour from Bow was well driven home and “Home Town” deserved it’s applause. “One man in his time plays many parts,” but Carmen Miranda was a new “High”; the lady herself will have to look to her laurels, that is if she wears any. Guying the Womens’ Services is_____________, well anyway, there are very few old kriegies here to whom the W.A.A.F. might still be a novelty, if not an experience.
Had the Andwell Sisters sung “Bei Mir Bist du Schon” twice more, we should have been word perfect, but even that wouldn’t have lessened our enjoyment of the act.
Antoinette would no doubt be at home in almost any dockside tavern, while drunk compensated us for our dry Christmas and unobtrusively, but convincingly showed us a glimpse of what might have been.
Perhaps one of two members of the band forgot that they were therefore the eight evenings to amuse the audience, and indulged in private by-play at the expense of the show; but it was a good band show, well played and produced – but so loud.
The raffle which was organised to raise cigarettes for the Communal Cigarette fund was a great success. More than 14,000 cigarettes were raised by sale of tickets. The winning ticket was numbered 64 and the prize of 1,000 Sweet Caporals went to a room in Block 15. Cigarettes will be distributed every Tuesday, between 1400 and 1430 hours; those who are in need should apply to Room 5, Block 21, at this time.
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BASIL BEETON’S CORNER
Stuffing to serve with Xmas Turkey. (For 12)
½ Bowl Barley.
2 Cups of Breadcrumbs.
3 Tablespoons Thyme or mixed herbs.
1 Teaspoon Salt
2 ozs. Margarine.
Work margarine into breadcrumbs and barley and mix together. Then, add thyme and salt and mix well. Line dish with margarine and bake in slow for 1 hour. Do not burn.
Icing for the Christmas Cake
As we shall be getting and buts in the Xmas Parcels you can now make your cakes look attractive. An excellent white sugar icing can be made as follows:
1 Packet Canadian Sugar or equal amount of Reich sugar.
½ Cup water.
Mix sugar and water thoroughly and add Klim to make heavy white paste. Spread over cake with a wet knife and smooth carefully to 1/8” thick. Garnish with cherries and nuts. This icing will set hard.
A soft icing can be made by adding ¼ lb. of Reich margarine to the above mixture. Beat the margarine with a fork until it reaches the consistency of clotted cream before mixing with sugar and Klim. This soft icing can be spread to any required thickness.
HOUDE, a former Mayor of Montreal, was recently re-elected to what office with a majority of 14,000 votes. He was sent to a concentration camp in 1940, because he had encouraged French Canadians to refuse military service. He was released very recently. V.B.
Enemy transports, under the protection of very strong naval units, penetrated into the Sea of SULU in the Philippines, on the 15th December. The landed 1 division in the vicinity of SAN JOSE and one the S.W. corner of the Island of MINDORO. Heavy fighting is in progress. V.B.
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THE DIARY OF F/O PEPYS, P.O.W.
20th December, A.D. 1944
BELARIA
Yuletide nearly upon us and we did have a great debate on the decoration of our chamber, some holding that it was too bitter a parody of the old days; while others wished to capture some of the essence of this time of rejoicing. But after all peaceable to bed, we shall have decorations and suffer our nostalgia silently. Now to make the best of our plight will spend this week a-cooking. To have the largest dinner ever, for which we have been saving, and all this despite our special parcel issue which will add turkey, sausage and face flannel to our menu. Did discourse with Basil Beeton on the latter and he, uncertain of American custom, did think they would make good garnishings. To-day from the Vorlager did receive our Christmas store of food. ‘Twas good to see our store of eggs safely back, unbroken; but what envious looks from those improvident neighbours who had eaten their reserves – as they say here: “Wie gewonnen, so zerrinnen.”
I did see the play by St. John Ervine, in the theatre, but it was lacking in interest and the building was cold; more stoves are being now fitted, so we shall see the Christmas revels in comfort, for rumour hath it that “FANFARE” is two and a half hours of excellent variety. Soon too it is hoped to improve our gramophone and, as more records are here, we shall have more musique.
Did learn from the O.K.W. this evening of the big new German counter-attacks to drive or armies back to France. This did remind me of the gigantic German counter –attacks at Sitomir in the Russo-German War, which did give the enemy breathing space for the further withdrawal. So the war goes on, the certain end coming nearer though some are blind to this.
This morning a big search – even extending to the complement of the flagship on morning Appelle. The only serious loss was suffered by the Commander
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of the ship, who did lose his cellar of wine, despite the pleas that was for medicinal purposes. And so, finally, to bed. Wishing all good men a Happy Christmas and a Happier New Year in the homelands.
THE GERMAN COUNTER-OFFENSIVE
Owing to a shortage of information it is too early to form any conclusive opinion on the German counter-offensive in the West. We will, however, endeavour to suggest a few lines of thought along which the subject might be pursued.
On the 16th December the Germans started a large-scale offensive, between the HIGH FEN and the North of LUXEMBURG. That is to say between the two points, in the North on the River ROER and in the South on the River SAAR, where the Allied pressure was, and still is, the strongest. This portion of the front, held by the American 1st Army, was necessarily thinly garrisoned. The attack followed a strong artillery preparation and is supported by large tank forces and an intensive air screen.
Although the Germans claim to have taken the Allies completely by surprise, their preparations cannot have wholly escaped the notice of Allied air reconnaissance.
It is clear that the Germans expect more than local gains; they pursue strategical gains, unknown to us, but which we will try to guess.
Attack is often the best form of defence, especially when the element of surprise can be used successfully. A successful attack would also bring the initiative, always a favourable element in warfare, back into German ands. It is also probable that the Germans wish to relieve the pressure, both at DUREN and on the SAAR.
Did the German High Command want to disorganise an impending Allied attack? We doubt it; it would precipitate the rouble rather than avoid the danger, as the offensive would move into concentrations of considerable strength.
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On the contrary, the German offensive might well have been the result of Allied weakness in this sector, strong attack with the maximum available forces would be a natural reaction. Finally, this attack as been a vast factor in improving the German morale, this was undoubtedly on of their arms.
After having retreated and ….. and retreated ever since AVRANCHES, sometimes slowly, often very fast indeed, German divisions are again on the offensive.
The Germans appear to expect no less than the re conquest of FRANCE and BELGIUM. It only goes to prove the heights and depths go German morale.
If this German offensive fails, the re-action will be terrible indeed for Hitler’s Reich.
Eisenhower had the necessary room and the necessary reserves to manoeuvre and master the situation should it become serious. On the other hand, will the Germans, even if their hope are exceeded, venture far into BELGIUM, with the danger of large forces on either lank, waiting to cut them off?
In any case, the main task for the Allies is to fight the enemy, wherever he is. They have superiority in men, material and aircraft.
We are convinced that the German counter offensive only means a precipitation of the final issue.
From a letter:-
Here is a quotation from a booklet called “HUMANITY KEEPS AN APPOINTMENT.” It says: “ A member of the educational committee of Stalag Luft III summed up the attitude of Prisoner Students when he wrote ‘Without the aid of your Educational Service this P.O.W. life would be one of stagnation, but through the efforts of the New Bodleian Library it is a period of praiseworthy effort in adverse conditions.’” The booklet having quoted this letter, adds:
“If I had the power I wold inform everybody and every employer in England and the Dominions that the letter P.O.W. can, and often do, imply an added qualification.”
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H
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A CHRISTMAS LETTER
I’d like to be home for this Christmas, my dear
To share all the sweet joys with you;
The laughter and fun of a happier year,
The same as we once used to do.
We’d put up the tree on the parlour again,
All tinsel and colour and light;
With ribbons and popcorn and striped candy-can
And crown’d with a star shining bright.
In the evening we’d sit by the old fireplace,
With the children all tucked in bed
And smile as we thought of tomorrow’s mad race,
To be first with that shiny new sled.
Then I’d kiss you again, my dearest of dears,
And whisper my thanks, just to you,
For the courage and patience and love through the years,
That have meant more than you ever knew.
Yes, I’ll be there for Christmas, the same as before;
Wherever you are I’ll be near.
In my dream I’ll be with you to tell you once more-
Merry Christmas, God Bless You, my dear.
From TOUCHSTONE, Oflag VII B’s monthly magazine:-
“Regarding rank, the New Zealand officers are the only ones who have regular promotion and nearly all of them are brigadiers. However, they are all very reasonable and democratic …. I sometimes wonder whether the old days weren’t perhaps, better when Germans were Germans, Britons and Canadians were chained. We felt darn sorry for them – I mean as far as one can feel sorry for a Canadian – their sufferings welded us into a real community.”
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“IT’S THE LAST LARST VORD IN PITCHERS”
Dr. Goebbels has said, “the film…. Is a cultural bridge between nations…..” but after viewing “Dixie Gugan” and The Spoiler,” one can feel that the bridge is creaking badly at the joints. Presumably the Moguls of Wardour Street, with a fat benign smile, despatch the reel as suitable entertainment for a long-suffering and helpless kriegie audience. Perhaps they are right. For officers, presumed to be intelligent adults appear to find pleasure and stimulation in the vapid hip-swingings of the curiously inept taxi-driver or the synthetic tinkling of a dance-hall harlot (Goodbye Roy – Splash, sob, choke, splash – Cut to fight in Gold Mine).
It makes one distinctly apprehensive. In England, after all, one can escape the high-pressure sex programme of La Grable or the persuasive machinations of Victor Mature by seeking immediate sanctuary in a tavern or the waxworks. But here one is compelled to swallow the celluloid offerings and be grateful.
The modern American film is calculated to entertain an audience with an average mental age of twelve years; in England, for obvious reasons the mental age is put at fourteen years and the average film with Hedy Lamarr as Elizabeth, Lana Turner as Mary Queen of Scots and Red Skelton as Essex, makes a great profit, although the film has a much inspirations and aesthetic value as a Group Captain’s hat. Even the strangely wooden Mr. Flynn has ventured into history and pantaloons for the benefit of the public at large and Warner Bros. in particular.
So, shall we at Christmas join reverently together in a quiet prayer of grateful thanks to the kind donor? No Sir – not if they continue this supply of tripe. Far less injurious to be in a top bunk, breathing mountain air and Edgar Wallace – which, by comparison with Randy Scott, has the constructive value of Aristotle.
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[Image – SEEING OUT THE LAST OF THE WAR YEARS]
[Image – THOUGH THE WIRE – WINTER, 1944.]
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[Image – The first Mrs Fraser]
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THE FIRST MRS. FRASER
The play itself was, perhaps, an unfortunate choice for cosmopolitan audiences, but we realise that the choice is very limited, both by scripts and performers. It was equally unfortunate that the playgoers, with frozen feet and numbed minds, were not in their usual receptive mood, a fact which does not help but greatly hinders amateur performances. Perhaps audiences will remember that and be a little more generous with laughs and applause. This would be easier now that the heating system of the theatre has been improved and you will be adequately warmed.
Janet Fraser was well taken, the best performance of the evening and undoubtedly the best we have had from this actor. James Fraser ha moments of conviction but, yet again, he appeared to be moving by numbers, his strictly stylised performances must be loosened up before he achieves a convincing stage presence. Elsie, the second Mrs. Fraser, appeared to have been greatly influenced by the manner of a certain Miss West, this was not your critic’s idea of the part but, if such an interpretation was intended, wit was quite well done.
Ninian stood out from an undistinguished lot of minor performers, if he can curb a tendency to gabble the latter half of long speeches he will be a useful addition to our dramatis personae.
The set was well designed and the props, particularly, were good. The colour scheme of pink and blue was, perhaps more suited to a boudoir then a drawing room, even though it was a feminine drawing room.
We now look forward to “FANFARE” the Christmas show. We do so with confidence, since the production is in the capable charge of F/O Whitely who has never failed to produce the goods.
A one-legged man won the high jump by clearing 5ft. 7ins. At the College Sports at Pretoria recently. He lost his right leg, two inches below the knee, when he was a boy. De Villiers who normally uses crutches, stands square before the bar, hops to it, springs with his left leg – an astonishing performance.
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RESOLUTION
I don’t see that there’s much point in making many resolutions for the New Year that is almost upon us. It seems a better idea to wait a few months until we are back in circulation again and then make our resolves, in accordance with the new conditions and surrounding that we shall find. Our lives here are pretty much ordered for us and there is little room for further restrictions, however well intended they may be.
There is, however, one habit of ours that we might are to alter. We might get a little more joy and correspondingly less melancholy if we focussed our attention more upon the future and less upon the past.
It is a curious fact that bygone events seen happier as they recede into time. Nothing ever seems so good as it was “Way back.” Thus we find ourselves at this time thinking wistfully of Christmases of old; progressively, from childhood up to those wizard mess parties and the attendant pleasure. Seldom are the unenjoyable hours recalled.
Now I thought it would be a good idea to adopt the same scheme, but in reverse. For there is much to look forward to now. A reasonable Christmas compared with what might have been. Longer days, with Spring in the offing. Home pretty soon, and happiness that we shall never have known before, even in retrospect. The company of our loved ones, getting the car out, wearing a decent suit of clothes and dozens of smaller pleasures that we can all readily visualise.
So I think I’ll make just one Resolution. To dwell on the future, instead of the past. Christmas 1939 was a joyous affair but Christmas 1945 cannot fail to be the best ever.
Although I suppose that even then, reclining and replete after the family Christmas dinner, we’ll be shooting a line to an admiring (?) audience about the advantages of being able to roll onto the “pit” straight from the table, etc, etc,.
Perhaps it is nice to look back sometimes.
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Untersturmfuhrer RAILTON M. FREEMAN,
alias
*Pilot Officer RAILTON M. FREEAN,
Alias
The Rat that left the ship that will not sink
An article appeared in Der Angriff of 23rd December 1944, purporting to be written by the above-named individual. We had intended to publish excerpts from this article but have decided not to do so. It contains no remarks which are worth reproducing dealing chiefly with the medical treatment of seriously wounded British and Germans behind the Allied front line. It quoted an article from the Daily News of 1929 to support the argument, and says: “how a captured solider who was wounded would be treated by the Anglo-Americans can easily be estimated when one reads the point of view of the British doctor on the treatment of their own soldiers.” – A point of view written in 1929 by an individual who was writing of Army Medical Services from the outlook of an Army Commander, trying to view the situation dispassionately.
The mentality which will allow a man to desert his country, however dangerous her position, has been well applied to the type of propaganda which the article tried to put across. The arguments would not convince a child of five and the spite and fear in the mind of the writer can be clearly recognised. We presume that the profession of such spite is a necessity to continued existence. The fears are certainly well grounded.
The article says a lot about Prisoner-of-War- among other things: “good food! They (The British) are nor even interested in feeding their own people; especially enemy prisoners-of- war,” many such inaccurate statements and false arguments.
This “Freeman,” ironically names, is now an officer of the “Waffen S.S.,” his alternative to becoming a prison-of-war. He and his loathsome brotherhood, who have violated all codes of deny and military ethics, wold do well to remember that we shall return home as “Freemen, “ he will continue to be Freeman.
*Sentenced to death at the Old Bailey in 1945.
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JOB DOESN’T LIVE HERE
I grow weary of these “Realists.” They are in their elements now, with mud all around, half-parcels in their bellies and yet another Xmas in Kriegiedom nigh is upon us. Winter shadowing the light at the end of the tunnel and the days marching by in slow procession. How smug they are, these cold comforters, with their widening smiles and their unspoken “I told you so’s.” How patently pleased with themselves as they explain the futility of hoping at all and as they superciliously decry the “childish refusal of face facts” of the cheerier souls who are happy to see the world and the war with rose tinted vision.
Perhaps we should have paid more homage to the profundity of these lofty gentlemen. Possibly they haven’t been accorded their due measure of respect for their long-sightedness. Though it does seem a pity that they couldn’t have foreseen their arrival in Germany and taken suitable preventive measure, thereby depriving is of their cheerless company.
For of that use are such gloomy prophets among us? Going around and inflicting, unasked, their wearisome theories on the erstwhile hopeful kriegie. Seizing upon the slightest display of optimism and carefully proving it’s lack of foundation, gazing with increasing pride at the lengthening face of the unwilling victim. If self-appraisal alone is not enough for these comforters of Job, then let them write books of their convictions, not to be published until the events have taken place.
We don’t want to listen to them. They defeat themselves with their own arguments. For it is so clear that this “realism” is naught but a clock for their lack of courage to hope and the fear of being disappointed, should any hitch keep is here for a few months longer. The very people who loftily decry the “refusal of the facts” are themselves the refusers. Let them gather courage and a different sort of smile. Let them bash the store of “D” bars, which they have undoubtedly saved against their beloved “rainy days.” Let them stop making
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Dozens of fivers from the faith of others. I hope that the war will end this year and am happy in my hope. I don’t want anyone to go to the bother of explaining to my why it will not.
THE AMERICA – CANADA QUIZ
Intended as a stop-gap to fill in the theatre schedule, QUIZ was a howling success in more ways than one and the capacity audience was quick to show it’s appreciation.
The Canadian team was frequently stumped by the, questions propounded by eh six Army Corps opponents, but managed to nose out a closely contested victory
Has the Americans known that George Washington made the original survey for the Baltimore and Ohio railroad, that the Hawaian[sic] Islands are also known as the Sandwich Islands, or that you don’t have to cross a State border to go from Buffalo, N.Y. to Detroit, Mich., it would have been a different story.
One the other hand, the Canadians were unfamiliar with smokeless electric trains and national anthems and lost points of the “King” who runs their Government.
The frequent “I pass” surrenders produced gales of mirth from the audience, particularly when some luckless contestant fell for an old gag. We still are not quite sure whether it is the Yang Tze or the Hoang Ho which is known as China’s sorrow and maybe Port Moresby isn’t in New Guinea, but it was good fun.
For a “first-time” presentation QUIZ provided excellent entertainment and subject matter for any number of arguments. We look forward to a return match between these contestants and more of the same with teams from other nationalities and services participating.
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WEST FRONT VIGNETTES
He left England in a fighter, as one of the escort to 72 Marauders who were doing a tactical raid….After being hit by Flak, he baled out over the target area and landed, by parachute, in the middle of the area which was still being bombed…With his bare hands he scrabbled a hole in the soil and had barely settled into it when a large force of Liberators followed up and showered bombs around hi,….
He was not hit. A few moments later a low rumbling noise made him peer over the edge of his hole…
An enemy Tiger tank was rolling towards his hole, the cupola was open and the commander was looking backwards – the Tiger was retreating-! The Englishman, 22 years old leapt out of his hole and the tank rolled by without seeing him… more aeroplanes in the vicinity forced him back into the hole…. The sound of voices raised his head again and he saw Allied infantry approaching from the East…. Leaping out of the hole for the second time, he asked them the way back to our lines…. They told him and asked him to escort four prisoners. He undertook this and set off…Four hours later a weary and harassed Pilot Officer reported back in our lines and handed over 160 prisoners, who – as he puts it – “Had been slung at him en route” He was unarmed.
…
Seen from a patrolling fighter on the evening of “D” day ;-
Two battleships standing about six miles off the coast with a screen of fighters above them… every naval craft within range joining them in pouring fire over the beachhead…. A bomber force on the way to bomb the marshalling yards at Caen… Thunderbolts screaming sown to strafe retreat enemy forces…. Vari-coloured parachutes being dropped with supplies for the airborne troops….a tank bottle going on between Caen and the Beachhead, with 15 or so in flames…. and, one mile from the centre or this scene, a solitary Frenchman with two horses drives a straight furrow over the land he has been tilling for 35 years… And adequate comment?
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[Image – This year – next year – sometime…]
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To the Editor – THE LOG
I am taking this opportunity to convey to all ranks of this Camp my sincere greetings for Christmas and New Year.
Most of us were convinced that we should be spending them at our homes with our families and I am most heartened and impressed by the way everyone has accepted the severe disappointment and has refused to indulge in fruitless self-pity.
In a message received from Her Majesty the Queen, the certainly of a very early reunion with our loved ones is expressed, and this, I know, finds an echo in the hearts of all of us.
It seems an appropriate time to thank, on behalf of the whole Camp, those who have carried out Camp tasks voluntarily throughout the year, and, to choose only one of many such jobs, especially do I congratulate the road building party for their stout efforts in building and bettering the Camp roads.
I am delighted to find that the American contingent is still with us over this period of good-will, and that we have the opportunity of further cementing the friendship and understanding between our two great nations, and most particularly do I include them, and all other of our Allies within the Camp, in these most Cordial Greetings.
GROUP CAPT.
SENIOR BRITISH OFFICER.
20th December, 1944.
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[Newspaper Image]
The Camp, BERLIN, AUGUST 5, 1944
World and War News
HOME NEWS IN BRIEF
A facsimile of the front page of “THE CAMP” – produced by the Germans and distributed to British P.O.W. Camps – The reproduction on the opposite page is the front page of the Christmas 1944 number.
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[Newspaper Image]
The Camp BERLIN DECEMBER 1944
HOLY NIGHT, SILENT NIGHT
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The selection of “Editorials” which occupy the following pages are taken from issue of the “LOG” which have not been reprinted in full in this book, They are included in the hope that some of the remarks and events noted therein may serve to remind ex-inmates of Belaria of some of our domestic problems and amusements.
THE EDITOR
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THE LOG
BELARIA 14th February, 1944
NUMBER THREE
EDITORIAL
The most notable feature of camp activity this week is, undoubtedly, the remarkable stride mace in the reconstruction of the theatre. I was privileged by an invitation to visit this seat of industry on Friday last: my former visit has been on the previous Sunday. I opened the door – walked in – and promptly turned round to walk out again, thinking I was in the wrong hut; or perhaps, round that familiar bend. A second glance reassured me and my amazed sense took in the transformation. An orchestra in the dressing room provided a suitable background, with what appeared to be “concerted individual instrument practice,” to the melody being played by sundry carpenters, electricians and general factota.
The floor has assumed a “gor-blimey” angle which will enable all the audience to see the stage which is well on the way to completion, and the orchestra pit is nearly finished.
Although we are asked to bring stools to the band shows tonight and tomorrow, I am told that there will be Red Cross armchair seating for a house of one hundred and fifty.
This is a great feat for the common good and I am sure that I shall be expressing everybody’s opinion when I render thanks and congratulations to the Entertainments Officer and his staff for a good job well done.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 21st February, 1944
NUMBER FOUR
EDITOIAL
Several incidents of importance to us all have occurred during the past week. The question of the cut in German rations has been dealt with elsewhere and since that was written we learn that the macaroni ration has been reduced by 75 grammes per fortnight.
One item of information which we have received, however, deserves special treatment. Foodacco has been open for less than a week and I regret to have a report that is it already being exploited by those among us who take advantage of that mutual trust which the very foundation of harmony in P.O.W. life. In one instance a customer sold 500 cigarettes to Foodacco in Player’s 10 packets – thirty of these packets were found to contain inferior grades of cigarettes of mixed brands. To quote another case – two tins of cocoa were accepted from a man and bother were subsequently found to be half full. One of these had been resealed.
We should all like to believe that these occurrences were accidental, but, in the case of the cigarettes and the resealed time of cocoa, such belief would amount to foolishness.
Gentlemen – I present these cases to you as one of the most abominable types of theft and only do so because you can assist in stamping out such practices – DO not distrust your fellowmen without very good reason – but, if you have such reason – it is imperative that you take immediate action. The best action being to report to it your Block Commander.
We are all convinced that 99.9 per cent. Of the personnel of this camp would not stoop to such practices and by dealing with it early we hope to kill off the tendencies of the other 0.1 per cent. In conclusion, I should mention that it is the S.B.O.’s intention to publish the name of any offender caught hereafter: in addition to any other action he may deem necessary The LOG will gladly give additional publicity to any such incident.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 5th June, 1944
NUMBER NINETEEN
EDITORIAL
The reprisals instituted last week are still in force and severely restrict the activity of our educationalists and horticulturalists. The latter, however, show more ability to rise above the difficulty, prodigious feats are performed daily with table knives and forks. Indeed, one sometimes wonders of they are horticulturalists or merely hungry kriegies “going back to the land.”
The wager which ended in the crawl will, doubtless, be the forerunner of other such incidents. One can only hope that they will be as well arranged and conducted.
The mail situation is still deplorable and letters from home make it apparent that out mail is taking longer than ever to reach it’s destination.
The new purge brought some interesting news pf home and it was particularly gratifying to hear the food situation is very good. They report that the greatest optimism prevails, but it is not having effect of slowing down the pace of production or preparation. It was also reassuring to hear that the raids on London and other English cities have caused little or no damage.
We are now approaching the summer solsticial day which will herald the shortening nights and the paling of those tanned torsos, now such a common sight. Opinion would seem to indicate that this paling will be completed under our own skies – or shall we be re-acquainted it under the Pacific sun?
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THE LOG
BELARIA 16th June, 1944
NUMBER TWENTY-TWO
EDITORIAL
The possibilities of emigration, subsided or otherwise, as one mans of providing satisfactory rehabilitation for ex-service men, particularly those of the United Kingdom, have received a great deal of attention from Government organisations entrusted which the planning and preparations for the re-absorption of service personnel into civilian life. It is generally accepted that there will be a large scale voluntary transfer of population from the British Isles to the Dominions, in furtherance of the inter-Allied planned economy.
In the past, migration was promoted and encourage largely for political reasons or the benefit of vested interests and with little or no regard for the welfare of the emigrants or the country of destinations. One of the principal abuses inherent in this system was the deliberate creation of false conceptions as to the opportunities available or prospective settler. Latter day economic conditions have some away with most of these ill-founded beliefs, clearing the way for planned migration designed to get the requirements of those countries willing to accept new citizens.
Three principal factors suggest themselves as criteria of the suitability of prospective settlers in these countries. They are adaptability, ability and permanency.
The recently pioneered countries place a premium on “doing,” People are judged entirely by their capabilities and the greatest rewards go to those with the most initiative. In consequence “push” is more important than “pull,” and skills or specialist training is a most valuable asset. Prospective immigrants will do well to bear in mind that these countries usually have a more than adequate supply of unskilled labour, but will always be able to provide opportunities to those who can offer skilled craftsmanship or specialised training.
While there is a definite tendency to minimise the importance of nationalism, it must be remembered that emigration to another country presupposes a willingness to accept and conform the customs and traditions of the country, with a minimum of individious comparison. It is most desirable that the settlers should make every effort to become absorbed into the national entity, avoiding any tendency to form isolated communities with the nation.
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No country is willing to absorb immigrants into it’s [sic] national economy and them to sit back and witness their departure “back to the old country,” as soon as they have accumulated sufficient capital for retirement or whatever other plans they may have formulated. The younger nations want citizens, not transients; people intending to establish themselves as permanent resident will be afforded every reasonable assistance, and the achievements of their aim will be dependent on their own efforts and capabilities.
Wartime contracts have afforded services personnel many chances to acquire a fair knowledge of conditions and probable post-war trends in other countries. Large numbers have had the important advantages of contact with members of the overseas forces and should have formed a reasonably accurate estimate, upon which to base future plans for emigration.
In conclusion, it may be said that although we know that the streets of the cities in the younger countries are not “paved with gold,” there are and will continue to be excellent opportunities for those willing to and able meet the essential requirements.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 24th July, 1944
NUMBER TWENTY-SIX
EDITORIAL
The Editor has been constrained to move into Sick Quarters for a short time. It was, of course, entirely coincidental that this should take place the day before he was due to commence a weeks stooging, and an issue of THE LOG due to appear. Fortunately, he has ordained that, for the time being, THE LOG will be published fortnightly. It is felt that this will help materially in overcoming production difficulties caused by the present dearth of suitable copy.
Definite steps have been taken to meet out need of greater privacy. The appearance of wooden screens along those sections of Camp exposed to the road would appear to indicate that there is no local shortage of scrap lumber. The vegetable issues of the last week have been rather overwhelming, and one could wish that the Protecting Power would send their representative more frequently. We now have unrestricted use of the classrooms and the education schemes are forging ahead. The news that nine of our fellow-prisoners are leaving to be repatriated is most welcome. With them go our best wishes for a speedy journey home and the hope that we will be seeing them again very soon in more pleasant surroundings.
The editorial which appeared in out last issue advocating the changes in the administration and availability of the theatre has occasioned a number of Letters to the Editor. Several considerations have altered out original intention of publishing the. Until such time as The Editor is back on the job, the publication of these and any other letter on this subject which may be submitted will be left in abeyance.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 21st August, 1944
NUMBER TWENTY-EIGHT
OVERHEARD comments from new arrivals indicate that there exists some misapprehension as to certain of the “news items” appearing in THE LOG. The publication of informative material of this nature is obviously dependant on three sources: Extracts from letter; information received from recent arrivals; and translations of extracts from German newspapers. Information received from the first two sourced is, if possible, checked and verified before insertion in these columns. Translated extracts from German publications may be identified by the appended initial of the newspaper source, and readers are expected to evaluate these with reserve.
With the appearance of the most optimistic “new Purge” to date, our strategists have been enjoying a field day deducing substantiations for pet theories. At last we seem to have achieved Mr. Churchill’s “the beginning of the end.”
We are pleased to note the presence of F/Lt. J. Reid, v.c., among the more recent arrivals on camp.
An undesirable demonstration of the futility of arguing right versus might took [ace last week. The innocent party most concerned escaped with painful and possibly permanent injury thanks only to his own good fortune. So long as the present condition prevails, it can not be emphasized too strongly that prisoners must take every precaution to avoid anything remotely resembling an infringement of the warning rail regulations. Casuistic submissions afford no defence against bullets.
The regrettable breakdown of projection equipment resulted in some of the camp not seeing the film, but we are told that it will be repaired and retuned next week, when extra showings will be given.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 18TH September 1944
NUMBER THIRTY
EDITORIAL
Since the publication of our last issue there have been several important changes in camp life. The closing of the sports field was a great loss, but this is undoubtedly offset by the opportunity, this created, of going for walks outside the wire and seeing something of the countryside.
The inmates of Block One had a short return to their winter quarters, but found that the enemy has not yet been driven out. At the time of going to press they find themselves scattered all over the camp in other peoples’ blankets. Neither of the blocks have yet caught fire and se we may hope that this treatment will be effective.
Those who were fortunate enough to see the bandshow will agree that it was quite the best entertainment of it’s [sic] type we have yet seen or heard. We anxiously await the re-opening of the show, in the hope that it will be possible to sneak in with a stool and hear it again.
Most people are not yet feeling the drop in rations. This is probably due to the abundance of vegetable. Messes are, however, strongly advised to try and avoid the uses of their reserve Red Cross food; against the day when the vegetables are no longer available or in the unlikely event of the complete failure of the parcel supply.
Betting over the end of the war seems to vary between the 5th and 30th October, expecting those confirmed pessimists who gloomily pronounce that “We shall probably be home this year.”
It is a great relief to most of us to note that the dead-end kids and their fezzes have gone to ground, we can but hope that they are not thinking another “Secret Satorialism.”
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THE LOG
BELARIA 6th November, 1944
VOLUME TWO
NUMBER ONE
EDITORIAL
The editorial and sub-editorial of last week’s Wire will explain our apparently premature withdrawal from retirement. While we are delight to welcome a youngest to the ranks of Kriegie journalism, we cannot agree that the Camp will “Have the benefit of two papers” (sic). We trust that you do not look for benefit in THE LOG; you are doomed for disappointment, we haven’t any to spare.
The heroic cuspidor in the extension to the Camp had led us to expect an American occupation but, as yet, none of the many rumours as to the identity of our new readers has crystallised into fact. The block which is open, Number Eighteen, will have to be filled before the others are inhabited and there is still no certainty about the occupants.
The Senior British Officer has been informed that the food parcel situation is becoming acute; in fact the S.B.O.’s at Calswalde are seriously considering whether we should be reduced to quarter parcels weekly. The present stock of parcels will take us to December 25th at the existing rate of issue and with our present strength. Letters have been received from the International and British Red Cross saying that every effort is being made to forward more food and that personal parcels are also coming through. We may, therefore, cherish a reasonable hope that, even if we drop to the quarter issue, the position should improve before long. Spero meliora.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 20th November, 1944
VOLUME TWO
NUMBER TWO
WE must open this issue by extending a hearty welcome to our American colleagues, those among us who come from the Centre Camp will remember what pleasant companions they were and it will be most refreshing to hear their point of view on questions which have been on our minds recently.
We have devoted a lot of space, three pages, to the article on President Roosevelt in the hope that it will provide, to British readers anyway, some enlightenment on the significance of this re-election. America has come to appreciate his shrew pre-vision and a different election result, with it’s interferences in a long-term policy, might well have proved disastrous to American and international affairs.
Public debated, now a weekly event, will give people the opportunity of getting a broader view and a new outlook on national and international problems. Many of the better thinkers of our generation have perished in the war, we shall have to take their places. Here is your chance to study the problems and incidentally, to practice the expression of your views; the latter, however shrews are of no value if you cannot put them over.
The food position, a prisoner’s greatest pre-occupation, seems to have resolved itself into a state where the issue will be the same as before, with the exception that tins must be returned within 24 hours of issue. The question of communal messing, should we drop to quarter parcels, is still under consideration, this may happy within the next fortnight but we still hope that “reinforcements” will arrive in time.
In conclusion, we must apologise that this issue will have to be published in two parts, those pages which are missing today (November 20th) were held up by the unserviceability of the typewriter and will be published as soon as possible.
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THE LOG
BELARIA 4th December, 1944
VOLUME TWO
NUMBER THREE
EDITORIAL
The senior British Officer has asked us to let all new arrivals know that various services on the camp such as watchmaking, hair-cutting, shoe and clothes repairing, etc., are one on a communal basis. The officers and N.C.O.’s who carry out these jobs do so on a voluntary basis and the tools and materials they use are supplied by the Red Cross or Y.M.C.A. You need, therefore, feel no hesitation is asking for such things as watch repairs, etc., and, of course, there is no question of payment. The Officer who does the watchmaking is most anxious that new prisoners with broken watches should take them along to him as soon after arrival as possible. This often prevents further damage and lightens his task.
At the time of going to print, we hear rumours about a film which is thought to be coming into the camp. The theatre officer has been advised that one, probably a Dietrich, is due – but we’ve heard that one before. However, it may arrive Morgen Fruh.
Conversation with the representative of the Y.M.C.A. discloses the fact the 3,000,000 Red Cross food parcels from America and United Kingdom have passed through Sweden. They are destined for camps in the Eastern part of Germany and we may expect our share as soon as the local transport can cope.
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Readers of these military news commentaries, of which two specimens are included, who were not P.0.W. must realise that they were based on facts (?) obtained from the German Press and information obtained from newly-arrived P.O.W. Any news we obtained from our secret wireless could not be incorporated since the “LOG” was always read by the Germans in the hope that we should disclose knowledge of events only obtained by “unorthodox” means.
SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT
THE OFFENSIVE ON THE WEST FRONT
Out last summary on the offensive in the West said little about the fighting itself. It would probably be better, therefore, to start from the beginning. Many interesting details have come to light since.
Readers should be reminded that mistakes may occur when commentaries on military events are made so shortly after their occurrence, there is only one source of information and much guesswork and reading between the lines has to be done. Those who feel great interest in the matter must wait for a few years, until the generals on both sides have published their memoirs, etc.
Where was the front before the offensive started?
From the MOERDYK (Bridge on the Waal, S. of Dordrecht) along the WALL to NYMWEGEN, then back to the MAAS at GENNEP. North of BENLO it left the MAAS to form the so-called German Bridgehead S.E. of HELMOND. The front went round to WEERT on the NOORDER KANAAL, then crossed the MAAS in the region of MAASEYCK until it turned South, West of GEILENKIRCHEN. So to STOLBERG, ECHTERNACH and the MOSELLE, which it more or less followed to PONT-A-MOUSSON, leaving a bridgehead to the Germans West of METZ. From PONT-A-MOUSSON, to CHATEAU-SALINS (Salzburgen) BACCARAT, GERARDMER, CORNIMONT, West of BELFORT, MONTBELIARD and the SWISS frontier.
THE ARMIES AND THEIR COMMANDERS
Canadian 1st Army. – General CRERAR, from the MOERDYCK to NYMWEGEN.
British 2nd Army. – General DEMPSEY, from NYMWEGEN to North of GEILENKIRCHEN.
If the original arrangement of the Invasion armies has not been changed, these two armies constitute Field Marshal MONTGOMERY’S Army Group.
American 9th Army. – General SIMPSON, from GEILENKIRCHEN to STOLBERG. This army was intended as left wing to :
American 1st Army. – General HODGE, from STOLBERG to ECHTERNACH, possibly to DEIDENHOFEN.
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American 3rd Army. – General PATTON, from ECHTERNACH (or DEIDENHOFEN) to the RHINE_MARNE CANAL.
American 7th Army.- General PATCH, from the PHONE-MARNE CANAL to the BELFORT GAP (BURGUNDISCHE PFORTE).
Gaullist 1st Army. – General BETHOUART, from the BELFORT GAP to the Swiss frontier.
The above-mentioned Armies constitute General BRADLEY’s (12th) Army Group. The disparity in size between the two Army Groups is obvious. It is possible, therefore, that SIMPSON is included in MONTGOMERY’S Army Group.
The fighting started on the 650 kilometre line, between NYMWEGEN and the SWISS frontier. EISENHOWER’S bid, in the opening stage, was 20 divisions. These were not spread out equally, but a greater concentration of troops and material was made there, where main points of fighting were desired or expected. Whereas both wings were still in front of the SIEGFRIED LINE and had to close in on it, the Allies in the AACHEN area had been in contact with the SIEGFRIED LINE for some considerable time, (first and second battles of AACHEN). Consequently a breakthrough in this area would be decisive and it was here that EISENHOWER concentrated his forces. We shall return later to this subject.
Other concentration points were built South East of HELMOND, METZ and BELFORT.
I. The American 1st Army. – General PATTON’s attack was the prelude to the general Allied offensive.
The main intentions were :-
(1) The fall of METZ, a fortified position of some importance, commanding the historical invasion route between the ARDENNES and the VOSGES (Louise XIV – Von Moltke).
(2) To close in on the SIEGFRIED LINE, running parallel to and behind the SAAR.
On the 8th November two spearhead were sent across the MOSELLE, on both sides of METZ, with the aim of surrounding the town.
The first spearhead built a bridgehead at KONIGSMACHERN, North East of DIEDENHOFEN. This advance as, at first, checked. The second spearhead was more successful. Starting along a line between PONT-A-MOUSSON and SALZBURGEN, it took NOMENY, DELM, SALZBURGEB itself and DIEUZE is quick succession. Advancing to MORCHINGEN, PATTON, delivered a frontal attack against DIEDENHOFEN, which was soon taken against, METZ, and against the MOSELLE, between these two towns.
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The frontal attack on the MOSELLE was repulsed on both wings, but in the centre the Americans forced the bridgehead over the river at UECKINGEN. It is probably this spearhead which swung round and finally cut off METZ from the EAST. But we cannot be sure. The frontal attack on METZ caused heavy fighting to develop, especially at GRAVELOTTE. The Americans then slowly closed in and took the town leaving behind a few isolated strong points in the outer defences, which the Germans claim still holding out. The fighting for METZ itself had so much relieved the pressure of North East of DIEDENHOFEN that by the 17th the bridgehead at KONIGSMARCHEN has been widened and deepened and SIERCK was threatened.
On the 18th, PATTON was able to renew his attack East of DIEDENHOFEN on the direction of the lower NIEV and of the SAAR between MARZIG and SAARLEUTERN. The Germans had to give ground and, on the 19th, the front was back eastward of SIERCK to BUSENDORF (west of SAARLAUTEN) and to the East of MORCHINGEN.
At the moment PATTON is firmly established on a line running near or along the SAAR, from the south-west of TRIER to about FINSTINGEN. There seems to be a deep penetration to BITSCH. On the other hand neither FORBACH nor ASSRBRUCKEN have been mentioned. PATTON’S initial aims have been fulfilled.
2. The British Second Army. – The Germans have, so far, given little detail about this offensive under the command of General DEMPSEY. The attack started on the 1th along the NOORDER-KANAAL, South East of HELMOND. It was preceded by an enormous artillery barrage. The German, have expected the attack, had very cunningly evacuated their positions before the barrage began.
On the next day a bridgehead over the KANAAL was established at WEERT, and by the 18th the Germans had only a bridgehead over the MAAS, including the two towns of VENLO ad ROERMOND. On the 23rd they mentioned British attempts to cross the MAA in the region of VENLO. Nothing more has been heard of this venture. At the present moment, the Germans refer to their small bridgehead at ROERMOND, which seems to imply the VENLO is now in Allied hands.
On the 16th of November, three other thrusts started, one on the RHINE-MARNE KANAAL, one in the BELFORT GAP and one in the region east of AACHEN. As the latter turned out to be the main Allied push, we will leave it to the last.
3. The American 7th Army.- General PATCH’s attack again on the 16th. It was part of EISENHOWER’S scheme of engaging the Germans on the entire front. Preventing them from shifting beg reserves along it.
A main point of fighting was built on his left wing, which as still on the plains (RHINE-MARNE KANAAL), but he brought his army to bear on the entire front of the VOSGES. The Americans slowly worked themselves up to the crest, the first significance event occurred on the 18th, after two days of intensive preparatory fighting. The Americans broke through from EADONVILLERS along the road to SCHIRMEK. Fighting was continued for this very important pass and it was taken on the 22nd.
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The road to STRASBOURG was in danger; and the Germans had to send some of their local reserves in an attempt to save the town. Meanwhile, another breakthrough has been forced, slightly North of the first one, Emerging from the PARROY forest, the Americans broke through West of SAARBURG, along the RHINE-MARNE KANAAL. The Germans, taken by surprise, were checkmated. Pushing swiftly on to PFALZBURG on the 22nd, the Allies took ZABERN on the 23rd, and made 30 kilometres on their last triumphant dash to STRASBOURG, which, except for a few fortifications, was taken on the 24th. During that time the first spearhead had only reached OLSHEIM. PATCH’S effort on his left wing had the effect of a beautiful “Disengage – double and lunge.” The advance on the remainder of the front was not so fast, but in the light of what had happened in the BELFORT GAP it is much better to let the Germans stay where they are, at least for the time being.
4. The Gaullist 1st Army. – This army under the command of General BETHOUART (of NARVIK fame), consists of Moroccan troops, Free French and a few American regiments. Their offensive also started about the 16th. On the 18thm heavy fighting developed on both sides of the DOUBS in the MONTBELIARD area and the French broke through on the 19th, South of BELFORT. Leaving a mask South and South West of the town, they pushed on and reached the RHINE North of BASL on the 23rd.
They then turned left and three divisions reached MULHAUSEN on the 24th. The French did not have the necessary reserves to push on further. This seems to indicate that a success in this area had not been expected and the exploitation of the De Gaullist success had to be improvised. The Germans, on their part, with an attack from the West of Altkirch towards the Swiss frontier, tried to cut the French off from the bases. The available reserves were used for the frustration of this German counter-move and the French attack along the RHINE was slowed down slightly. The Germans now feel the disadvantage of having to fight with a major obstacle in their rear and few avenues of retreat leading to and over this obstacle. With the Allies at STRASBOURG and at MULHUSEN, their position might soon prove, hopeless, but they will do everything in their power to disentangle their Army of the Vosges. We look forward to a week of spectacular military events in the area.
THE OFFENSIVE EAST OF AACHEN
The offensive is called the Third Battle of AACHEN. EISENHOWER has employed the greatest possible concentration of troops and material. The bulk of the fighting sustained by the American 9th Army under General SIMPSON between GEILENKIRCHEN and STOLBERG. On the left flank of this Army substantial portions of the British 2nd Army have been thrown in North of GEILENKIRCHEN, and on the right flank, the greater part of the American first Army under General HODGE. This, on a 72 kilometre (42 mile) front, nearly two whole armies are engaged. We estimate this force at about 450,000 men,. The artillery barrage prior to and during the fighting used 20 tons of explosive per hour. Numerous squadrons of the Tactical
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Air Force were used in support and attacked every imaginable target – tanks rolling stock, supply columns, bridged, machine gun nest, flack emplacements, troop movements and troop concentrations.
The intention underlying this offensive was very plain; to widen the sent previously made in the SIEGFRIED LINE; to make this line yield under the repeated massive blows, to pour strategical reserves through the gap and to disorganise the German resistance on the left bank of the RHINE, between DUSSLEDORF and BONN.
The offensive started at 1100 hours on the 16th of November , on a 30 kilometre (18 mile) front, between GEILENKIRVHEN and GRESSENICH (3 ½ miles East of STOLBERG). On the first day the Allies achieved two penetrations about two miles apart.
On the second day, the 16th, the fighting spread North and South over a 70 kilometre front. The Germans put up a stubborn resistance, only yielding inch by inch. They could not prevent Allied success near WUERSELEN, along the AACHEN-JULICH road. On the 18th the strongest pressure was in the area of GEILENKIRCHEN.
On the 19th further pushes were made to the Eastwards in the Southern sector, East of GRESSENICH, in the forest of HUERTGEN and slightly South of it at VOSSENNACK.
So it continued all along the AACHEN front. One the 21st a big effort was made to crush the German resistance East of GEILENKIRCHEN; at GERONSWEIDER 120 tanks attacked on a 1,500 yard front. It must be this force, with infantry following up, which as reported to be nearing KINNICH (on the RUR) on the 25th.
To deal with ESCHWEIDER, the Americans had recourse to the usual tactics. Two spearheads outflanked the town to the North and South on the 22nd. They met East of the town on the 23rd, and stormed it on the 24th. The force, attacking from the South and South-West, consisted of two armoured divisions and three infantry divisions. This is indicative of the concentration on other points of the front.
At the same time, on the 24th November, the Americans who had scored the initial success North-East of WURSELEN on the 17th, appeared in sight of JULICH.
At the moment the fronts appeared as the bend from the North of GEILENKIRCHEN to LINNICH, JULICH, West of DUREN, East of Vossenack, then joining the old front probably West on MONSCHAU. The Americans are slightly less than halfway between AACHEN and COLOGNE, but their aim is not achieved; fighting continues with unabated fury on both sides.
In conclusion. – Although the greatest successes have been scored in the Allied right wing, our chances lie on the Central sector. Another week of fighting should bring both wings into direct contact with the SIEGFRIED LINE and, we confidently hope, the rupture of this line by the American 1st and 9th Armies. We are waiting for EISENHOWER’S rebid. Meanwhile fighting continues.
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SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT
THE OFFENSIVE IN THE WEST
Those who did not expect an Allied offensive before next spring ad quite a few arguments in their favour. Firstly, a winter offensive would demand special equipment for the men, special coolant for armoured fighting vehicles and rolling stock, and the shorter days and bad weather would considerably restrict the telling effects of our air superiority. Lastly, we had plenty of time, so why hurry? But those who patiently and confidently kept waiting for an offensive before the winter set in with all its rigours, at last saw their hope materialise and their arguments prevail.
The enemy must not be allowed to recover from the blow he has suffered in France, Belgium and the Netherlands. The new general call-up in Germany must not bear fruit, the men of the German Volkessturm must not be given the opportunity of becoming well –trained and well-equipped soldiers.
The respite was given to the Germans was unavoidable. The disrupted communications in the liberated countries had to be repaired and re-organised. Above all, ANTWERP has to be cleared, the free flow of supplies into this vital port had to be guaranteed. Even if, through other Atlantic ports, enough reserves could be piled up to start a general offensive in the West, ANTWERP was the only port which would ensure that the hell-fire about to break loose would be adequately fed.
Meanwhile tanks, rolling stock, general equipment and armaments could be minutely overhauled. Well employed, the time would not be wasted.
A few days after the channel into ANTWERP was freed, the offensive started along the whole part of the Allied front, which was directly facing Germany; on the 8th of November in the region of METZ, on the 14th November South-East of HELMOND, in Holland, and on the 16th around AACHEN. It is difficult to say where the heaviest fighting is going on. General EISENHOWER probably wants to test the whole German line; to engage vigorously everywhere and to find a weak spot. He will then attack, with all his remaining strength, at the weakest point.
The possibilities of developing a successful war of movement after a break-through is in the different sectors depend largely upon the topography of the country. It might be interesting to discuss them.
On the extreme right wing the country is mountainous – about 4,500 feet above sea level – in such areas, as a rule, roads and railways are few; this would mean certain restrictions on the strategical exploitation of a break-through, where fast mechanical forces must advance on a broad front, must be able to manoeuvre freely, causing confusion in the enemy’s rear.
Apart from the fact the nearby RHINE might break the swing of a fresh “war of movement” affording as it does good conditions for a determined rearguard action, we must consider the possibilities of effective defensive warfare in the fortified
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SCHWARDWALD, a mountainous wooded country with comparatively few roads. Those who argue that the scarcity of the roads in the event of a breakthrough would give full scope to the Air forces must remember that the first aim of any offensive is the destruction of the opponent, by killing, wounding or capture, and only an army can achieve this on the scale required.
One the left wing, between NYMWEGEN and ROERMOND, a break-through would be very effective. The distance from this sector to the RUHR, is short, about 30 miles. The communications, roads, etc to and from this vital industrial centre are plentiful and good; a war of movement in this area, a quick thrust towards the RUHR would endanger Germany’s economic and military position.
There are two setbacks:-
(1) The Allies have not yet completely mastered the left bank of the MEUSE, let along crossed the river. The main German defences are undoubtedly on eh right bank.
(2) The RHINE is comparatively near, and consequently there is little space to cut off the Germans on the left bank of the river. The latter must be regarded as a serious obstacle.
A break-through in the area GEILENKIRCHEN-STOLENBERG would smash the German central sector, the collapse of this would have immediate and far-reaching repercussions on both wings, particularly on the extreme left wing, between MOERDYK and NYMWEGEN.
The German advance bastion would be in a hopeless position I the event of an Allied break-through East of AACHEN. While on both wings the Allies have not yet contacted the SIEGFRIED LINE, in the AACHEN area they have been fighting in the line for some time. The German communiques repeatedly referred to pill boxes, dugouts and fortifies positions. A break-through in this area would, certainly, be decisive.
An Allied success in LORRAINE would probably yield the best strategical results. The distance to the RHONE (between STRASBOURG and MAINZ) is greater than from the other sectors. The region East of THIONVILLE-CHATEAU SALINS is flat and open, with good communications leading towards the mining district of the SAAR. General PATTON in an attempt to cut off the German retreat towards the RHINE, would have ample manoeuvring space. With some luck it might be possible to destroy the German forces opposing PATTON before many of them had crossed the RHINE, which would be left undefended.
Furthermore, at a moment when the Germans have to distil every drop of their fuel from coal, the loss of the SAAR coal-mines would be a serious blow to their war machine.
Let us now consider the various components of the whole offensive:-
(1) General PATTON’S 3rd American Army delivered the initial blow. His first intention was to outflank METZ from the North and South and make the two
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pincers meet East of the town. The Northern spearhead crossed the MOSELLE at KINIGSMACHERN, North of THIONVILLE, but German resistance then slowed up their advance. The Southern thrust was more successful. Starting from PONT-A-MOUSSON, it successively took NOMENY, DELME, CHATEAU-SALINS-MORCHINGEN and is now in the region of DIEUZE. The Germans prevented these two pincers from meeting.
To relieve the pressure at the bridgehead of KNIGSMARCHEN, PATTON attacked the MOSELLE between THORNVILLE and METZ and established a bridge head at UECKINGEN, halfway between. At the same time he delivered a frontal attack at THIONVILLE, which was taken on the 16th November. Soon GRAVELOTTE fell, and at present the Allies are closing in on METZ from all sides. We must bear in mind the fact that PATTON has not yet reached the 1939 German board, and that the SIEGFRIED LINE lies beyond. PATTON’S intention, therefore, is the acquisition of an easy jumping-off place for the carrying of the war of movement into the heart of Germany.
(2) On the 14th November, General DEMPSEY, with the British 2nd Army, started for the MEUSE in the direction of VENLO and ROERMOND, with the intention of clearing all German forces from the West bank of the river. This offensive seems to have met with great success. The Germans, at first, talked about an Allied bridgehead over the MOORSER CANAL at WEERT an now about their own bridgehead over the MEUSE at ROERMOND.
(3) Two days later, on the 16th November, activity flared up on the VOSGES front and the 3rd battle of AACHEN began.
(a) From BELFORT to BACCARAT we should regard PATTON’S attack as intended to pin down the German forces, preventing them from drafting reserves to the other sectors.
(b) The Germans, so far, have announced few details of the fighting in the STOLBERG area. Ferocious fighting with masses of artillery and tanks is going on over a 50 mile front; but no new names have yet been mentioned; the Germans have, however, claimed that an average of 40 tanks per day have been destroyed.
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THE LOG
ON THE MARCH
GREAT SELTAN 30TH January, 1945
VOLUME TWO
NUMBER FORTY EIGHT
We must apologise for being a day late in publishing this issue. It should have been on the boards of Belaria yesterday; since we do not speak Russian it is perhaps as well that it wasn’t. It is strange how men adapt themselves to changing conditions and there could be no more convincing proof of this than the production of some two or three hundred sledges in thirty minutes, their variety of design and efficiency is a credit to Kriegie ingenuity.
The first day’s march seems to have been found difficult by most people but everyone agrees that the next was much easier, I tis only a matter of getting used to it apparently, if you heat anyone grousing remind them of our troops sleeping and fighting in the open on the West Front or the Russians on the East, not very far East either. Rumour puts them about 30 kms. from here, but she always id exaggerate.
We should like to advise everybody to go easy with their rations. It seems quite likely that we shall be some time on this march and it is suggested that you budget for a minimum of 14 days; do not stint yourself on this account, with the full parcel you have and extra rations you brought, it should be possible to feed very well.
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Readers may be glad to hear that the manuscript for the Souvenir Edition has been brought along, we do not guarantee that it will be carried indefinitely (it weighs 9 ½ lbs.) but every effort will be made to get it home.
To-day is a Heaven-sent chance to get yourself set up for the rest of the great trek. Get your socks etc., dry, the best way is to put them near your body, possibly between your shirt and tunic under the arms. When we start marching again you should on no account, sit in the snow or on milestones, etc., this leads to rheumatism, piles or other frightful trouble which will aggravate the difficultly of walking.
In conclusion, don’t let it all get you down – all you have to do is to keep your bowels, ears and mnd open.
R.O.T.F.B.
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THE MARCH
January 27th Stalag Luft III. Sagan
AT 9.30 tonight the camp was warned to be ready to leave in 30 minutes. This was the usual German timing, however, and we finally paraded at 0015 hours on the morning of Sunday the 29th. This was a lucky delay as it gave is time to make sledges upon which to tow our kit, enabling us of course, to carry much more. The greatest ingenuity was shown in constructing these vehicles and everything from coal boxes to Red Cross arm chairs when into their making.
It is impossible to describe our feelings when we were told to march and I won’t attempt to do so but the immediate reaction was interesting. We had never been in such a situation before. We were about to leave behind an accumulation of books, equipment, food, clothing, cigarettes, etc., which had been accumulated during the past five years and officers who had hoarded every safety-pin, nail and bit of broken glass were to be seen trying to give away thousands of cigarette, brand new clothing, and all other things which they could not carry but did not wish to burn or leave for the Germans. We felt that this move indicated that the war was very nearly over and were accordingly in the highest of spirits.
The 0015 hours parade was eventually dismissed at 0145 and we were told that we should be really be going in about an hour and a half, so went we back to our quarter and rechecked boots, pack, etc., and had a good meal. One very bitter aspect of this move was that out much looked forward to British Red Cross Xmas parcels which had arrived later were to have been issued the next day. Of course, we never got them.
We eventually left at 5a.m. on the Sunday, and a very strange procession would its way across the German countryside for 20 kilometres to a small village called Kunau – the drawing will give you some idea of the variety of clothing which we were wearing and we must have been a very strange
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sight to German eyes. Many people had decided that overcoats were much too heavy for a long march and had made capes or hoods out of blankets – others were wearing home-made puttee, some were in Balaclavas, some in the remains of flying kit, and a few- very few- in R.A.F. uniform of various types. Most of us were smoking pipes and everybody was towing or carrying odd looking bundles of kit and equipment, to which were attached kettles, jugs, milk tins and water bottles. All our pockets were filled with things we had decided at the last moment we could not leave behind and it was strange to dip your hand into a conglomeration of raw potatoes, razor blades, black bread and probably a fork or spoon seized at the last moment.
On arrival at Kunau we were put into barns. The march itself had not been bad – the roads were frozen and sledging was easy, but many of us were very foot-sore and everybody was extremely tired. We cooked meals over small fires and made a brew f tea or coffee. (I should have mentioned that we each had a whole Red Cross parcel which we had collected on marching out. Owing to the fact that the Germans, throughout the whole march, gave us little or no food, these parcels undoubtedly saved many of us from serious illness and possibly from the fate which occurred to other less fortunate groups of prisoners who were also on the march.)
The lucky people in the barns were those who managed to get a cow to sleep with – they were delightfully warm and very friendly. But most people found it very cold and did not sleep much that night. Another thing which many of us discovered was that n these conditions it is very dangerous to sleep with your boots on because they freeze solid and contract, and one wakes up in agony.
We were up early next morning and set off again about 9 o’clock and marched through Wiesau to Gross Selten. We arrived there at about 1600 hours and were put into a large farmyard with much netter barns than the night before and plenty of straw. The German people along the road were
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All very friendly and at times it was almost like being a unit of a liberating army – they would rush out with hot water and anything they could spare ad barter with us for cigarettes. Our guards, who were Volsturmers of an average age of about 65, were apathetic about this, as indeed they were apathetic about this, as indeed they were about the whole match, but the Luftwaffe officers in charge of the column got extremely annoyed and tried to prevent fraternisation by reminding the civilian that we were the very gangsters and child murderers of whom Dr. Goebbels had warned them to beware. This had no effect whatever. As soon as the officers’ backs were turned the business was resumes and we were sent on our way with a wave and a smile.
There was plenty of scrap wood about in the farm yard at Gross Selten and we made meals of corned beef etc., and settled down for the night. We were very lucky in our barn since it had electric light. The farmer was very irate when he discovered we had it on, but one cigarette seemed to placate him over this. We did not make the mistake of keeping our boots on this time, and by struggling together in the straw had a really warm and restful night – except for those whose ashes and pains from unaccustomed marching kept them awake.
We were wakened at 7.30 the next morning, and having made coffee with hot water which we bought from the farm labourers’’ wives exchange for cigarettes, we were paraded for counting at 0930 hours. To our delight we were told that we would be staying here all day for the rest. There was great rejoicing over this and the rumour mongers who had not been idle since we left Sagan really came into their form. “…. The Russians were 3 kilometres away …. The British and Americans had crossed the Rhine ….Hitler had gone completely round the bed and Goering had taken over and was discussing peace terms, etc., etc., “ We could, of course, get no German papers, and owing to the fact that the column had split up, the wireless, which had been dispersed among several people, was also split and we could not use it, so that we could get no real news to confirm or deny
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these rumours. I published o one page log on the lines of “it could be worse” – this is included in this book. It amused people to see it in these odd surrounding, but as the oil in the typewriter was frozen the printing was tricky. Entract did a drawing of a Kriegie with a sledge – very good considering that his hands too were frozen from the cold.
An interesting part of this day’s stay was that a motorised section of a German Panzer Division. Chased out of Lipmannstadt by the Russians, arrived in charge of one officer. It consisted of several lorries and the officer’s car, The troops were all very friendly and only too anxious to trade their rations for our cigarettes or coffee – they assured us that the war would be over in a day or two ( this was January 29th) and there was only one incident with these people, which occurred when somebody removed a goose from the officer’s car. He complained to the Group Captain and threatened that strong measure would be taken if this bird was not returned. An appeal was made for this return, but it was not forthcoming – the truth of the matter was that it had already been cooked and eaten The German officer grew to feel, however, that a 4 ounce bar of chocolate and 100 American cigarettes was ample compensation and the matter was settled this way.
The farmyard around which our barns were built looked like a Gipsy camp, with hundreds of little fires heating jam tins of water and people stirring a has or stew. It was altogether a very happy day because the German opinion that the war would be over in a few days had spread around and nothing could have dampen our spirits
We left there the next morning at about 0800 hours and did 20 kilometres through Tappferstadt, to Birkenstadt. The temperature rose in the afternoon and a slight thaw set in. The sludge made sledging much more difficult, and we did not arrive till 1700 hours. We were put into barns again – these barns were unheated and unlit, and even in the daytime there was little light – in sharp contrast to the adjacent shed which housed 98
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Friesland cows and had central heating, running water and electric light: We had by now got wise to the fact that it was far better to group together and make large communal meals, and we fed better from then on; but since we were locked into the bard at 1700 hours we got very hungry during the night, as of course we could neither smoke not light fires owing to the great danger of fire in the straw. Another inconvenience of being locked in the barns at 1700 hours every night was that these barns contained no water taps or any form of sanitary arrangement. A note in my diary written that night echoes the general feeling “Although dead tired, I feel very well – my feet are holding out well and apart from al the aches and pains inevitable after so much marching, everything is fine.”
I gave a small girl of eight a piece of chocolate and she looked at me very suspiciously when I told her to eat it and refused to do so until I had nibbled a small piece off the corner to demonstrate its edible properties. She then ate some herself and the ecstatic expression on her face as she got the flavour was wonderful to see. She had never seen chocolate before: She became very friendly after this and I showed her photos of my two children, which excited her very much, and she gradually became less nervous of me, until when we left I found it quite difficult to shake her off as she followed me down the road, hoping for more chocolate.
February 1st
We spent the whole day there again because, we understood, the parties marching ahead of us had slowed down and there was no accommodation on the road. We got one fifth of a loaf of bread that day – the first German rations for 5 days. The farmer in whose barn we were billeted got very annoyed at the way his straw, etc., was being moved about. He shouted and bellowed at everybody n German to no effect – he then told the Group Captain that he was surprised at the conduct of British officers in a foreign country. It was pointed out to hi, that the officers concerned were in completely strange circumstances and they the Germans had
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[Image – ON THE MARCH]
[Image – BARN AT BIRKENSTADT]
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[Image – 8 CHEVAUX, 40 HOMMES. SPREMBERG – LUCKENWALDE, 1945,]
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Broken nearly every article of the Geneva convention in their treatment of us during the last 5 days – we therefore felt under no obligation to be of good behaviour. One of the members of our “mess” begged, borrowed or stole a chicken from somebody and it was boiled and divided among 21 of us – I got the wish-bone and thought that I was unlucky until I saw someone with the beak.
A great blow fell in the afternoon when it started to thaw rapidly – by 1600 hours the thaw was complete and we realised the worst had happened. From now on everything had to be carried on our backs.
The next day we set off over very heavy country and owing to the thaw the mud was ankle deep. Nobody was very cheerful by the time we arrived at Schonheide where we were split into parties of 100 and thrown into damp strawless, unlit barns. The doors were immediately locked and therefore we could not cook a hot meal. Everybody was dead beat, however, and after some biscuits and margarine settled down to sleep.
Next day we marched to Spremberg where we were taken to a very large German Tank Corps depot and locked into the empty tank sheds. An hour later we were given half a litre of hot liquid containing no meat or solids but having a faintly cereal flavour. This was the first “hot meal” the Germans had given us since leaving Sagan 7 days previously. We entrained during the afternoon into empty cattle trucks and at 1630 hours we were locked in – 50 men to each, which made it quite impossible for us all to lie or sit down at once, so we took it in turned to do so. Seven hours later the train left the station and we were told that our destination was Luckenwalde, a large Stalag 32 miles south of Berlin and about 60 miles from our present position. Next morning we were still going, with frequent stops in railway sidings, and we arrived at Luckenwalde Station at about 1700 hours.
It was just beginning to get dark and the Germans had great trouble in counting us before marching off to the camp. When they had done so four times
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with different results, none of which was the figure they expected, we marched off in the rain to the camp where we spent an hour and a half standing outside the gates waiting for admission - there was no apparent reason for this. When we finally got into the camp 2000 hours we were searched, deloused, etc., until 0600 hours, the next morning when we were shown our new barracks.
It is impossible to describe the revulsion and disgust we all felt on seeing them – they were squalid and sordid buildings with great parched of damp all over the inside walls and ceilings. The door would not shut and most of the windows were broken. Three tiered beds in sets of 12, accommodating 200 men in each room, were indescribably filthy, with dirty and half filled paliasses. There was nowhere to cook our food and the water was turned off so that we could not even wash.
During the train journey from Spemberg the senior British officer of our party was visited by a German Foreign Office official who, without giving any reason, asked for a statement from the British that the German had made every attempt to improve condition on the march and that we were quite satisfied with their behaviour in this respect. This was undoubtedly an attempt to offset the indignation shown by the World Press over the whole incident, and, with typical German propaganda methods, it was implied that the giving of such a statement would greatly improve our living conditions at the new camp. The statement was, of course, refused. On arrival home we were dismayed to find that our relatives had been greatly upset by the very exaggerated stories of this march which has been splashed over the cheap “dailies”. It is regrettable that the people responsible for this type of press sensationalism cannot, for a moment, put themselves I the other people’s places.
Stag IIIa, Luckenwalde
This camp contained many nationalities including British, American, French, Russian, Italian, Jugoslav, Czechoslovakian and Norwegian officers and soldiers.
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We were the only R.A.F. contingent and it turned out that the Group Captain was the senior British officer in the camp. He immediately made representations to the Commandant to get in touch with the Red Cross authorities of the protecting power. This was the most urgent since there was no Red Cross food and we were having to live entirely on German rations, which at the time consisted of one fifth of a loaf, half a litre of soup, about 6 potatoes and one ounce of margarine per a per day. This diet contained just over half the calorific value of a man’s minimum daily requirements but apart from feeling hungry we found that we were quite fit on it provided that we did not exert ourselves in any way at all.
A far greater lack was that of literature. We had no books of any sort- they had been too heavy to carry – and there was no camp library. This period of just lying about with nothing to read, no mail coming in or out, and a perpetual hunger, was very trying and it is interesting that the topic of food was the only one discussed by anybody – people used to spend hours discussing the meals they would have when they got their parcels or when they got home and although it was a form of self-torture, everybody found themselves doing it. This was slightly relieved on February 23rd, three weeks after our arrival, when the 600 Norwegian officers gave us a gift of some Danish Red Cross parcels. It worked out at about one fifth of a parcel each and included small quantities of butter, cheese, Ryvita, sausage, sugar, molasses and oatmeal. The generosity which promoted this gift from those who were already short can only be appreciated by those who were there. It was a splendid gesture for which we shall never cease to be grateful to our Norwegian friends.
The lack of literature and educational facilities forced people to seek other occupation and it was interesting to watch how people one knew well reacted to these new condition. Many started to learn language from the Polish officers who were in our compound – they were very anxious to learn English of which many had a smattering, and were
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Willing in exchange to teach Polish, Russian, German or Spanish which most of them spoke fluently.
The Doctor from our camp at Sagen had marched with us – Capt. Montuuis R.A.M.C. – and had used nearly all his portable medical supplies during his valiant work caring for those who fell ill or had foot trouble on the march. His hospital at Luckenwalde consisted of a small walled-off section of a barrack without any heating or water in it (although this was later improved) and the Germans could not or would not, produce any medical supplies. We were fortunate, however in that the general health of the contingent was food and there was a German run hospital in the immediate neighbourhood of the camp which could deal with really serious cases. Nothing could be done, however, for the hundreds of people which suffered from an epidemic or sore throats and bad colds – luckily this cleared up without any serious development.
A regular supply of American Red Cross parcels began to come in about the middle of March and this, of course, improved the general conditions enormously. There is no question that, whatever one’s normal environment it is possible to out up almost indefinitely with the utmost discomfort, dirt and squalor provided that you are reasonably fed and warmly clad. The arrival of this food, together with the improvement in the news, which we were getting daily through our secret wireless, enabled us to ignore the unpleasant side of the life.
There were persistent rumours throughout our stay at Luckenwalde that we should move again when the Russians came close and we allows held reserves of food against this possibility, which took shape when we were marched to the station on Saturday, April 14th, where a train was waiting, ostensibly to take us to Moosbery near Munich – this journey did not see, at all pleasant in view of the great activity of R.A.F. and American aircraft. We did, however, manage to persuade the Germans to provide the paint and allow us to embellish the tops of the carriages with the letter “R.A.F.- P.O.W.” in yellow.
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[IMAGE – PER ARDUD AD ASTRA! A THREE TIER NIGHTMARE]
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We were locked in the train on Saturday night and told that we should leave as soon as the engine was available to pull us out. The German civilians living round the station were very friendly, and once again, only top anxious to trade their meagre rations for our coffee and cigarettes. The German railway staff looked upon the whole thing as a huge joke and had told us on arrival at the station that there was no hope of an engine ever arriving to take us to Moosberg. This proved to be true when we were marched back to the camp on the evening of Sunday the 15th.
It was now becoming apparent that the war could not last much longer and our “Defence Scheme,” which had been long planned to cover the moment when the Germans fled, was reviews and brought up to date. The German staff of the camp were becoming increasingly polite and obsequious – many of them going to the extent of asking for “good conduct notes” which they could present to the oncoming enemy, and their one prayer was that the British or Americans would arrive first.
And here I will digress to tell of one German interrogating officer who, when asked by a British prisoner whether he thought the Russians or Western allies would reach Berlin first said: “the Western Allies – even if we have to send transport for them” (this remark was made in September ’44!)..
The Defence Scheme, which I have already mentioned, was organised in secret and designed to keep the vital services of the camp going after the German left – it was also necessary in a camp of this size to have some systems of picketing the perimeter to prevent prisoners wandering off individually or n groups and endangering themselves in the local fighting. It was realised, too, that large numbers of displaced persons for the military commanders of advancing forces. While still in German hands we managed to contact the senior representative of each nationality in the camp and got their agreement to our proposals. The situation,
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As we foresaw it, was that we should awaken one morning and find the Germans had gone. Things turned out very differently because on the morning of Saturday, 21st April it became obvious that the German were about to leave. The first indication was that the sentry boxes were no longer manned, and then, one by one, the guards and sentries in the camp were withdrawn. At about mid-day the Germans paraded just outside the main gate in full marching order and the Commandant sent for the Senior Officer of the Camp, General Otto Ruge, Commander in Chief of Norwegian Forces. There was some delay in finding the General and the Germans were in such a hurry that they would not wait and selected the nearest senior looking officer who happened to be an American and formally handed over to him. They then marched out of the camp and were not seen again until some of them re-appeared in the Russian prison cages.
It should be appreciated that we were now completely surrounded by Germans, although they had officially evacuated the camp. There were not Allied Forced in sight, and there was some doubt as to how long we should be left in this sort of No Man’s Land. The water and light had been cut off at the mains in the local town, but the Works Service of our organization found some fire trailer pumps and pumped up water from static pools to maintain essential services. The light question could not be overcome until the power station was going again. A report from the patrol in Luckenwalde says “Quiet and orderly throughout the time. By 1100 hours all available food was distributed, and the factory manager of an armament works making breech blocks was yesterday ordered to destroy the vital parts of his machinery – which was done. Civilian are being evacuated by Police order, but the Volksturmers are still in the town. In the woods near the camp is a party of 7 or 8 S.S. troops and 100 soldiers who have visited the came and stated that anyone outside the wire would be fired upon and that any overt acts of hostility would bring drastic reprisals.” There was a light artillery unit in the woods north of the camp
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under a German general and we were not a little surprised when his officer visited us to say that unless the 8 rifles stolen from his men were immediately returned he would open fire upon the camp. The rifles had apparently been taken by some of the members of the camp and an appeal was made. They were found and returned to hm. The day was generally very quiet and, of course there was plenty to do inside the camp organising food distribution, cooking, reception of refugees who were pouring n from working parties, etc., etc. There were no incidents inside the camp – which is a great tribute to the discipline of the 25,000 inhabitants of all ranks and nationalities. Everyone went to bed that night wondering whether the morning would bring Russians or Americans. From the activity around they appeared to be about equi-distant from us. This later proved to be a false assumption.
At about one o’clock on Sunday morning April 21st a German aircraft strafed the camp This was the first time during the whole of our stay in Germany that we had been in any way directly affected by air warfare. However, the effect of this was fortunately not very serious The pilot flew up the main street of the camp and most of his shells fell in that street – it was amusing however to see people baling out of top bunks and landing on people who were simultaneously baling out of the tier below. Another amusing incident during this night was a visit from the Mayor or Luckenwalde who wanted to hand over the town to us. This offer was of course, refused by General Ruge. It was probable that the townspeople felt that this might in some way hold off the Russians, of whom, they lived in greatest terror.
At about 0500 hours on the Sunday a light Russian armoured car drove into the Camp at a high Speed, pulling up with a jerk outside our headquarters. A small and very dirty Russian emerged and was immediately surrounded by delirious prisoners who felt that at last they were on their way home. He, (the Russian) seemed to be very excited and grabbed
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everybody in sight, kissing them and slapping them on the back. They left about 20 minutes later and took General Ruge to report to their headquarters. They also took the senior American officer and an interpreter, who were perched up on the outside of the viehicle [sic] but ended their journey rapidly when fired upon just outside the camp. They did a smart roll into the ditch and the armoured car went on to Luckenwalde.
By this time there was continuous fighting in the woods all around us, but somehow none of the shells or bullets seemed to land in the camp. At about 10 o’clock a party of several Russians tanks and armoured cars drove in. As they were driving through the camp the German party in the woods just to the west of the camp opened fire on them, but caused no casualties. We could get no information from these people as to our evacuation since they were spear-head troops but they told us that the occupation forces would be along very soon and our position would be made clear. With this party of tanks and armoured cars was a large troop carrier filled with Tommy Gunners and it was very strange to note that one of these was a very attractive 19 year old girl, dressed like a man in a short smock ad breeches. It was incongruous to watch this women very battle stained and with a Tommy Gun across her knee, produce a dainty white handkerchief. She was asked to what unit she belonged and replied with obvious pride, “I am a soldier of the Red Army” but would say no more. Here it should be mentioned that the security observed by all ranks of the Red Army was of a very high order. They must have been extremely well trained on the subject and the penalties for leakage were, of course, very severe.
While this was going on the Russians were occupying the town of Luckenwalde and passing through in great numbers. Several independent reliable witnesses stated that apart from the firing of pistol shots into the air the occupation was quickly and effectively carries out. The discipline and behaviour of the Russian troops was reported
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as being correct in every way and the Germans were undoubtedly astonished and very relieves at this.
By 1100 most of the Russian troops had passed through and the German civilians began looting shops, taking particularly footwear and linen goods. White flags were flying everywhere and civilians were asking: “Where are the Americans?” The German civilian’s also looted the town bakery taking all the flour.
All Russian prisoners in the camp, approximately 9.000 were released today and anyone who could walk were given rifles and told to go and shoot Germans. One party of these Russians ex-prisoners was ambushed by German civilians I the wood near the gate and four of them were killed. The civilians responsible were subsequently captured. The German neighbourhood were now being broken up into small parties and many of them came and tried to surrender to the British or American camp. We took these prisoners on for subsequent handing over to the Russian authorities. One of these Germans, who had been the driver of a food lorry, said that he considered himself better off now under them than he had been in the last days of Naziism. [sic]
During these next few days we were frequently visited by Russian officers but could not get our position clarified. They also brought a film unit and photographers who took photographs of the various groups of prisoners and filmed the funeral of the eight Russian soldiers who had been found starved to death in a barrack in the camp. Another visiting Russia officer told us that there were still four German divisions in the area – two tank and two infantry – but that since the tank divisions had no tanks and the infantry division no boots they were only employing one Russian division to mop them up.
On the 26th April, Major General Famin of the Repatriation Board on Koniev’s staff visited the camp – he was accompanied by a bodyguard with a tommy-gun who posted himself outside the
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S.B.O.’s office throughout the interview. He said that he believed that owing to the approach of the two armies and the congestion of the lines of communication in the Russian rear it was most probable that we would return home via the West and assured us that whatever our route everything was being done to get us home as rapidly as possible.
A Russian girl interpreter, youthful, attractive and very smartly dresses in a tailored uniform and wearing Russian boots visited Camp yesterday. She remarked on the smartness and bearing of the British and American prisoners. She said that this camp resembled no other which her unit has yet liberated. Other camps have needed a Russian administrative staff to run them and on occasions the prisoners immediate on liberation have abandoned the camps for luxurious German quarters which they have badly despoiled. The interpreters, whose name is Maya and rank sergeant, visited some of our barracks and said that she considered them disgusting accommodation and that in view of the difficultly in living in them they were kept in remarkably good condition and the officers appeared to keep themselves smarter and more presentable than might have been expected. Sergeant Maya only began to earn English five months ago. Sher applied to join a fighting unit but was posted as interpreter. A number of Russian officers have expressed their gratification at the discipline and administrative organisation of the camp and for the past few days of continual stream of Russian officers has been reaching the camp to see that British officers look like and how they behave. The Russian officers who are not on duty are very willing to speak on political matters. One Russian major deprecated the pre-war propaganda which he considered had misled both British and Russian in respect of each other as individuals. He said that the Russian people have a genuine respect and admiration for Mr. Churchill whose “personality is very sympathetic” to them. They had all considered the death of President Roosevelt a great loss. This officer, however, preferred more
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than anything to talk about his small two-year-old son, of whom he carried a large photograph.
Another Russian officer said that his wife and three children had been shot by the Germans in Murmansk and his own main interest in life now was the pursuit and extinction of Nazis.
Senior Russian officers, including a political officer and senior Allied officers yesterday attended a funeral near this camp of a number of Russian ex-prisoners of war. No religious service was held at all but a number of speeches were made and a firing party of Russian ex-prisoners of war fired a number of live rounds which included a burst of a tommy-gun fire, over the grave. The Russian political officer made a rousing speech which ended in the words “Death to the Fascist Invaders.”
The following is an account of a visit to Luckenwalde by one of our officers yesterday:-
“There is very little damage In the town and only two buildings damaged by shells or bombs were seen in a five hour visit. Both of the damaged buildings were factories. There were a few traces of street fighting where house were spattered with machine-gun bullets and some trees on ether sidewalk had been uprooted by passing tanks. Convoys of tanks and 3-ton lorries were still passing through the town mostly arriving from the south-easterly direction and going west. Life in the town appears to be extremely quiet, even dull. The civilian in the streets are almost all women ad old men. Those of Russian extraction wear a res arm-band for security and as a symbol of peaceful intentions.
“German civilian are continually stopping British officers to ask them when the Americans or the English will arrive. The reaction to the reply that they will probably not come to this area is dismay and sometimes tears. The German civilians appear to be gathering in their houses and having large number of gloom sessions. Requests to Germans for articles which are being requisitioned are very swiftly met without hesitation or question. All photographic and radio stores have been looted by
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the Germans and during yesterday’s tour to requisition sets for the barrack blocks of tis camp, very little success was met with. The Russians in units attached to Luckenwalde all seem to be most anxious to talk to officers about their captivity and will even listen with great interest to anyone’s ‘shot down’ story.”
Our problems were being increased by the hundreds of civilian refugees who were applying for permission to enter the camp -these included a large number of women and children and we had no facilities to look after them. One barrack was, however, allotted to them and everything possible was done to make them comfortable and to feed them. They were all interrogated before admittance and any who were doubtful cases or obviously German were thrown out. This caused not a little heart-burning in some of the most difficult cases - where, for instance, a Belgian arrived with his German wife whom. Of course, we could not admit. We were lucky in having a quantity of unclaimed parcels which had been sent by relative to women in German internment camps these were opened and their contents distributed to the needy. It was a new experience for the R.A.F. officers to hold clothing parades and distribute feminine civilian clothing.
The situation in Luckenwalde continues to be extremely quiet. The Russians were reported to be searching civilian’s’ houses for arms. Civilian were appearing more in the streets, though usually only in groups – women shopped but did not go out alone. The resistance groups in the woods were losing their ardour and little firing was heard. During the day a German leaflet entitled “The Avenger” was dropped by a German aircraft. Its main theme was that the situation was not so bad and that no attention should be paid to the enemy’s lies on the wireless – Hitler and Goebbels were said to be in Berlin directing and decisive battle of the war.
At 1330 hours today the Senior Allied Officer was called to Luckenwalde to see a Senior Russian Officer.
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The Senior Allied Officer left with the intention of requesting:-
1.Representatives from this camp should be allowed to go by car to Marshal Koniev’s Headquarters to try to obtain more information, and to try to get in touch with the British and American Liaison Officers to the Russian Army.
2.Representatives from this camp should be flown to Allied Headquarters.
The Senior Allied Officer has neglected no opportunity for obtaining information concerning evacuation plans concerning the camp. He has continually stressed to all the Russian officers whom he has interviewed how unsatisfactory it is for all those in camp to remain here for any length of time and how bored and discouraged everyone in the camp feels.
All the Russian officers to who, he has spoken have shown the greatest sympathy and understanding and willingness to make our situation tolerable and to expedite repatriation.
SIGNALS
The various Security Signals Services of the Oflag and Stalag have functioned according to plan from the beginning. As a result of this the Allied authorities in the West should have been in full possessions of our conditions and local situations for some day. The Allied Signals Service of the Camp has picked up a number of prisoners of war stations working according to the prepared plan. One of the strongest signals received has been from a prisoner of war camp near Regensberg.
No replies have come in to us or any other prisoner of war camps but this is not unexpected as there has been no immediate emergency.
Among other signals picked up have been intercom. conversations between air crews.
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SUPPLY
The Allied Supply Officer with a staff of 50 including leaders if the foraging parties has to cater for approximately 15,900 men.
Although he has the greatest assistance from the Russian authorities who have made every effort to respond to his demand notes it has not so far been possible to organise food issues on a 48-hour basis.
The new Russian Base Organisation with which the Supply Officer is already in contact has promised to facilitate this. The Supply Officer states today that the food organisation and the food situation generally shows improvements with the arrival of the Russians’ permanent administration. Hitherto food issue has been working on an 8-hour cycle which has meant the issue of food almost immediately on arrival. Food is issued by the Supply Organisation direct to the 5 camp kitchens where it is divided on a pro-rata basis for the whole camp. Most of the bread has been coming in from Russian stores. Flour has been commandeered and bread is also being baked in Luckenwalde by Russian and other Allied bakers. Yesterday a quarter of a loaf was issued by the changeover of Russian administration caused some delay and at mid-day today it was not known what the ratio would be.
The following are a few figures of supplies received in a the camp for the whole period April 24th to April 26th inclusive:- 9,015 loaves of bread; Pork -95 kilogrammes and 82 sides of pork; 7 head of cattle; Potatoes – 4 tons; Beef and beef tallow – 854 kilogrammes; Flour – 3,000 kilogrammes; Corn meal and wheat – 5,375 kilogrammes beef tallow – 854 kilogrammes; Flour – 3,000 kilogrammes; Corn meal and wheat – 5,375 kilogrammes; Salt – 625 kilogrammes; Pudding Powder – 625 kilogrammes; Butter – 1,850 kilogrammes; onions – 150 kilogrammes; Soup Powder – 150 kilogrammes; Dried vegetables for soup – 15,700 kilogrammes; Sugar – 6,000 kilogrammes.
It is hoped to make arrangements under which members of the camp shall accompany Russian
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Police Patrols in the town. The large number of French Commandos which arrive in the camp for orders from time to time will be dealt with by French Patrols.
The new Russian Town Major yesterday sent for the German Mayor of Luckenwalde and expressed his disapproval of the water supply. There has been water in the town, but the Germans have not taken the trouble to build up a head of pressure for the camp. The Russian Town Major told the Mayor that it would be unfortunate if pressure for the camp was not built up immediately. The Mayor of Luckenwalde appreciated the point.
In the past few days Polish Officers in this camp have received visits from several Russian officers including one from the Political Affairs Department. The Polish Officer were told that the Western boundary of the new Poland would be the Oder and East Prussia and Danzig would be Polish thus eliminating the old Polish Corridor. Poland’s Eastern boundary will be the Curzon Line. The Russians stated that all Polish towns are now under a Polish Commandant. The Russians promised all the Poles in the camp a quick return home and said that letters would be forwarded to their families in Poland and agreed to supply them with Russian and Polish newspapers if they could be obtained. Three Polish Senior Officers arrived here yesterday from a camp for high ranking Polish Officers near Berlin. They said that the rest of the party was on the way here.
A German civilian who came to this camp requesting shelter yesterday told the Camp Intelligence office that according to a Czech railway worker whom he met on his way here there has been fighting in Berlin between S.S. and Wehrmacht troops and Volksturmers.
The Camp supply officer said this evening that among the stores bought on today were 20 tins of potatoes, enough bread for an issue of one sixth of a loaf per man tomorrow and enough sugar for an issue of 50 grams per head. About 800 pounds of meat had come in so that there would be meat in
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the pea soup tomorrow. It is hoped t obtain enough bread for the next issue to be a quarter of a loaf. Forage parties have located several more sources of supply and permission is being sought from the Russians to work them. These stores contain sugar, jam, barley, oatmeal, potatoes, rice and canned meat.
Works Department Staff from the camp, in Luckenwalde this evening met two American War Correspondents, a man and a woman, both in khaki with green U.S. War Correspondent tabs. They were on their way through to Berlin there whey hoped t be the first American War Correspondents to enter the city. They have heard about Stalag IIIA and they sent good wishes to everyone in the Camp for a safe and quick return home.
Latest news of the camp water supply is that the authorities hope to have town water up here within two days. The electric booster pump for raising the pressure to supply the camp has been out of commission because the wires in the woods had been cut and repair was difficult because of local snipers.
The first Americans from the Western Front have arrived in Luckenwalde.
A Russian woman lieutenant who is a Medical officer attached to local forces of the Red Army called at the camp at 2215 hours and requested details of all sick by 0600 hours this morning. She required the list to be divided into 3 sections – 1. Seriously ill; 2. Patients confined to bed; 3. Patients not bed-ridden. The return was made to her at the required time and it showed that there were 215 seriously ill, 177 other patients confined to bed and 881 other patients – a total of 1,273. Their nationalities were: British, American, Polish, Norwegian, French, Yugoslav, Italian, Czecho-Slav, Rumanain [sic] and Belgian. The Russian officer who was blond, smartly dressed and appeared to be very efficient was not able to give any information about the time of the evacuation of the sick.
There is still more evidence that the open countryside around us s very much an operational area.
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A Russian Colonel paying a social call on the S.A.O. last night said that there were estimated to be approximately 15,000 Germans still loose within a 16 mile area of Luckenwalde. They are wandering about in disorganised bands and attempting to drive West. They have been without food for five days and are inclined to be rather desperate. One member of this camp who had taken off on his own to try and get west ran into a group of them about 5 miles from here yesterday and had to talk rather fast before he could get away. They warned him that there would be a lot of shooting going on in the woods. A member of a camp Forage Party who had difficulty in identifying himself to a Russian patrol also found himself in a rather difficult situation. German civilians around Luckenwalde are only too anxious to have members of the Allied forced living with them as they are under the impression that this gives them protection and exemption from Russian occupation orders. In fact, any member of this camp who takes up residence in a German house opens himself to being suspect by the Russians and foregoes the protection from military operations which the camp affords. A few members of this camp have already paid for their misunderstanding of this with their lives.
FOOD
The Camp Supply Organisation this morning had enough bread for an issue of one-fifth of a loaf. Other dry ration issues will be : 100 grammes of sugar, 30 grammes of pudding powder and 300 grammes of potatoes. 30 pigs weighing approximately 200 pounds each are also coming in. A stock of peas has been located at a Hitler Youth Camp near Juterbog. The Supply Officer says that the camp is poorer by some considerable amount of sugar and potatoes which were in a store at a village close to the camp. These supplies were awaiting collection by a Camp Foraging Party but they were removed by an unofficial foraging party: Unofficially foraging and requisitioning is, in fact, nothing but robbery of camp supplies. Every assistance is being given to our foraging parties by the Russians. A foraging
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Party leader said today: “The Russians are not very keen on paper work but when they are told to do something they go flat out, through all obstacles will they have done it.”
The following is a description by an Allies representative from the camp who was present this morning in the Luckenwalde Municipal Offices at the interview between the Russian Town Major and the Burgomaster of Luckenwalde.
The Town Major is a man of about 40 years of age, of rugged appearance and well over six feet tall. During the interview two other Russian officers, both very operational types, and each as tall as the Town Major sat beside him at the head of the Town Council Room table. The Burgomaster of Luckenwalde, a harassed looking little grey-haired man with spectacles, who is collaborating as hard as he can was accompanied by his assistant and his interpreter. The Town Major spoke quietly and firmly and did not raise his voice once. The only shouting was done by the three Germans who shouted at each other. The Town Major told the Burgomaster that the obtaining of meat, food and water supply for this camp was to have priority over everything else. He requested a complete inventory of all farms, farm stock, food and equipment in this area and ordered the delivery of 15 cows to the camp today. When the Burgomaster protested that the water situation was too difficult owing to lack of fuel the Town Major said that transport and workers would be placed at his disposal at once so that a search for fuel could be made. The Burgomaster was given permission to use his own car and was told that the Russian authorities would supply him with all his fuel and service and repair the car whenever he wished. When the Burgomaster asked if he might keep his radio set the Town Major asked why. The Burgomaster replied that he wished to be able to know the correct time. The Town Major was highly amused by this reply and told the Burgomaster that he thought the Russian authorities would be able to tell him the correct time whenever he wished.
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There has been a big crowd of German civilians delivering their radio sets to the Russian authorities at the Town Major’s office all day today. A number of these are being serviced and repairs by the camp staff and the cocks in the Stalag and Oflag have priority for them.
Some Russian officers who visited the S.A.O.’s offices this morning has just come from Potsdam. They said theta the town was not as badly smashed as Berlin and quoted a Red Air Force pilot who had been over Berlin this morning and said that the capital was ablaze from end to end.
They were asked why Marshal Stalin has never come to England or outside Russia to meet Mr. Churchill. Their reply was “Mr. Churchill and the American President only have one job each. Marshal Stalin is Commander in Chief of the Forces, Prime Minister and Leader of the nation and he cannot possibly spare the tome to leave the Soviet Union.” The Russians do not like their political officers to be referred to as Political Commissars. They are known in the Red Army as “Officers in charge of Military Morale and Political Education.”
The Russian Colonel who visited the S.A.O. last night asked the S.A.O. why the Germans fight the Russians to the death, but are anxious to surrender to the Anglo-American forces. The S.A.O. replied that this was due to German propaganda attempts to split the Allies and to the fact that the Germans were well aware of the devastation and terrorism which they has spread in Russia. He added that surrendering to the Anglo-American forces would in no way protect them from their just punishment for their crimes in Russia. This reply met with great success and the Colonel commented “That is a very good answer.”
The Colonel related that he visited two caps in Poland, one near Lublin known as “The Camp of Death.” In these two camps alone, he said 11,000,000 people had been slaughtered by the Germans. The Lublin camp had eight large crematoriums for the burning of bodies, The Germans’ method of
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execution was to take large groups of prisoners to a building which they said was a de-louser. They took all the prisoner’s clothes away and locked tem in the shower room and then turned on the poison gas system. The ashes of the burned bodies were sold as fertiliser and used in the manufacture of road-making material. The Commandant and the S.S. staff of the camp were captured. After a court martial they were all hanged in the main square of Lublin. The Colonel also stated that he had seen direct evidence of a German atrocity when a mother was forced to watch her child being hung and was them raped in the presence of her father and afterwards shot.
A member of the Foraging Party from this camp yesterday passed a coulomb of German prisoners of war being marched south. The first half a dozen files were officers. In the middle of them was our late Appel Officer, Hauptmann Lien, known as “The Porker.” It was raining and he seemed to be finding his pack and blanket very heavy. An unconfirmed report says that the late Security Officer of this camp is shovelling coal in Luckenwalde.
Today the first elements of the Russian Repatriation Committee arrived in the camp. They had been on the road for five days and were much too tired to discuss detail that evening.
At 1 a.m. this morning Captain Medvedev visited the Senior Allied Officer again and gave him a few more details of his organisation and plans. An account of this interview was given later this morning by the Senior Allied Officer to the Senior Officers of national groups.
Captain Medvedev told the Senior Allied Officer that he has brought his own wireless station with him for direct communication with his Commanding General at Marshal Renier’s Headquarters. He said that later in the morning he wanted to visit the British and American Oflags and Stalags, and the other compounds as soon as he has time, when he wold also meet Senior Allied officers and Compound Commanders. He said that he would discuss later with the Russian authorities in the
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town, the possibility of bringing all the French prisoners in the area under one single command.
He asked a lot of questions and was somewhat surprised and gratified to find the general organisation and administration which exists in the camp. He appeared to have come with the impression that he might find here a conglomerate mass which he would have to sort and organise.
He had no news about General Ruger, which has now left the camp, and said that he and his convoy has been five days and nights on the road and even his military information was five days old. He said that he hoped that it would be possible to get entertainments going such as concerts, films, lectures and dances while awaiting repatriation orders. It is hoped the some Inter-Allied Committee will be organised for entertainments. The camp has two theatres, one of which is still under construction.
At 0230 hours, by which time 33 lorries of his convoy had arrived, Captain Medvedev, who is a hard driving and hard working officer, told his men “You can dismiss now and as you are very tired, you need not start work again until 6 a.m.” They were back at work at 6 a.m. t continue unloading, sorting and distributing, and 17 more lorries are arriving today.
The camp organisation for the reception of the Commission last night, although it was turned on with very little warning, worked very smoothly. The Norwegian Kitchen Officer and his staff supplied a good meal to all the Russians during the night and are continuing to look after them and new arrivals today. The Camp Accommodation Officer managed to find quarters and bedding for all the Russian officers and men and for the 15 women other ranks and the two women officers who love by themselves and mess with the officers.
The Garrison Commander has just informed the Senior Allied Officer that he is expecting high officers dealing with repatriation and accompanied by and International Commission to visit the camp shortly.
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In respect of other work by the camp for the reception of Captain Medvedev’s Commission during the night. Allied Officers, N.C.O.’s and men did a very fine job in helping the Russian unload and park their lorries with great dispatch. A staff of 25 Allied interpreters was on duty, meeting the trucks at the gate as they arrived, supervising unloading and helping the Russians to find their food and quarters. 50 pigs were unloaded and were billeted in the counting pen outside of Oflag. In spite of the protests of the Senior Pig, nothing could be done to give them better accommodation. Among the supplies which the Russians brought with them there is a large quantity of clothing, musical instruments, entertainers are also on their way.
Captain Medvedev’s second in command is an Officer in Command of Military Morale and Political Education. He has already promised us Russian, English and American films and concert parties and is arranging for Russian airmen to visit the compounds as soon as possible, It is quite clear that the Russian intend to give the best possible time until repatriation arrangement are complete.
When interviewed this morning, the Camp Supply Officer, as he watched stores pouring in from the Russian transport under the direction of a girl officer said “These girl lieutenants are very efficient, they certainly keep their men on the run and get things done.” They seem to have everything we need – margarine, noodles, barley, rice – which will go to the sick – and four. There are at least ten tons of flour unloaded and there will be an issue of 50 grammes of margarine and 100 fresh meat this morning. We have received three truck- loads of live pigs and 12 head of cattle. There is corn meal for soup thickening and the Russians have promised us ten tons of bread a day. We are hoping to get every man in the camp two good meals a day and the kitchens will probably work on a 24-hour bass. There will be plenty of peas from now on as any amount will come in.
Among other things the Russians have brought three truck loads of brand new blankets, a load of
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white sheets, two trucks of pots and pans, knives, forks and spoons, and ten bags of tobacco. It appears that the lorries started out empty in many cases and filled up from German towns and villages on the way as all the supplies seem to be German. More loads are coming in and we intend to push it out to the camp as soon as possible beginning this morning.
During the morning Captain Medvedev, in accordance with his intentions last night visited the American and British Oflag and Stalag. For the information of those who did not see him, he wears khaki uniform and breeches and high boots and carrier a map case. He comes from the Caucasus, is 24 years of age and wears the Stalingrad Defence medal and the Soviet Cross for gallantry. Above these decorations are three wound stripes, one in gold for severe wounds, one in red for light wounds and one in black for shell shock.
Captain Medvedev was completely horrified by our conditions inside the camp. He considered all barrack blocks depressing, gloom and very overcrowded. The tented camp conditions he considered terrible and was visibly shaken by the tented camp’s water supply, toilet arrangements and overcrowding and he said that he would do everything possible to move these men away to better quarter at the earliest moment. The Senior American Officer entirely agreed with him about this. In respect of the barrack blocks he said that where were four or five camps in the neighbourhood which he would go and inspect at once to try and find better accommodation. In this respect he Senior Allied officer told Captain Medvedev that he felt that the inconvenience of a move would raise an unnecessary amount of personal difficulties and inconveniences as well as administrative problems for a few days of comparative comfort. He told the Captain what when we move, which he hoped would be as soon as possible, it should be a move straight home.
Captain Medvedev was satisfied with Oflag and Stalag kitchens and examined the food that was
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being cooked as well as the food on hand. In his inspection of the barracks he was particularly interested to know which contained aircrew and which ground personnel. He referred to the Aircrew Barracks as “The place where eagles live.” He said he would obtain brooms and equipment for the cleaning out of Barrack Blocks but that, in his opinion, a move to better quarters was essential and he is going to report our conditions at once to his commanding General with whom the decision rests. Immediately after his visit around the camp, he left to visit neighbouring camps to see if there was any good accommodation. He was most interests, during his tour, in the pressure cooking stokes which he saw at work.
An English woman and her two children re now living in the camp, the arrived after a four day journey from Berlin. They had great difficulty reaching here without getting involved in front line fighting and on several occasions they were under fire. The English woman’s Name is reported to be Thomas and she is a native of Blackheath.
Mrs Thomas was riding on a cart through Luckenwalde with two Dutch youths who were giving her and her children a lift to Torgau and the Americans. As they were passing through Luckenwalde Mrs. Thomas spotted the Union Jack on the British Liaison Officer’s car. She shouted to the car to stop and as a result she is now being looked after here where she will stay with her children until repatriation has been arranged. The children are John, aged ten, and Diane, aged seven. Their experience has not in the lease affected their high spirits and they are both perfectly fit except for blistered feet.
During the day, 10 armed German soldiers came up to the gate to surrender and asked where they American forces were. When told that they were at Torgau, they left the camp in a south westerly direction and many parties of German soldiers were seen to be heading for the American lines. Today also saw the first order of the Russian Occupational
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troops posted in Luckenwalde. This requires all German civilians to hand in wireless sets. They were told that these would be modified so as to receive only one station and then returned.
General Famin, who is in charge of repatriation of prisoners of war in this area, visited the Senior Allied Officer today.
Shortly after his arrival he sent for the Senior Officer of each national group in the camp and to each one issued an order regarding the discipline of his unit. He confirmed that Wing Commander Collard should continue to be responsible for the whole camp and act as Senior Allied Officer. He said that his verbal confirmation of this will be followed by a written order which will be published she said that our own governments have been informed of the numbers of their own nationals in the camp, and the respective governments in consultation with the Soviet Government will decide time and method of repatriation. This has not yet been decided and General Famin said that he had no information concerning it. The Senior Allied Officer told the General that all nationalities in the camp were becoming rather bored and were anxious to get home. Though they realised the difficulties due to transport and communications, they would like some information and the Senior Allied Officer asked General Famin for his personal opinion on two points: 1- How long it would be before we should leave here to go home. To this General Famin replied “There is no immediate prospect.” Point 2 was concerning our route home. To this General Famin replied that he thought it would be west through the front although the possibility of going by Odessa still esixted. [sic]. He stressed that both his replies were only personal opinions.
According to his information General Famin said that he had never heard of any Allied Liaison Officer with Red Army formations and the repatriations of prisoners is dealt with through diplomatic channels. In spite of this he said that Allied officers might well come to visit the camp and in fact he enquire if any had yet arrived.
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General Famin next told the Senior Allied Officer that he considered the conditions of this camp were intolerable for us ad he could not allow us to love here in such uncomfortable circumstances. The Senior Allied Officer while agreeing as to the discomfort of the camp, said that he doubted whether the administrative difficulties involved in moving the camp would be justified, and as we should be in our new quarters for such a short time, he felt that on the whole most members of the camp would prefer to remain here. However, General Famin was clearly very concerned about our welfare and insisted on the Senior Allied Officer accompanying him to visit the Adolf Hitler Lager, about six miles from here on the road to Juterbog. The Adolf Hitler Lager is a German Officer’s Rest Camp and Training School. The Senior Allied Officer reports that it is built and equipped on a most luxurious scale. It is quite evidently a showplace, with a sport stadium, showers, baths, a swimming pool and officer’s club and a canteen. It is situated in very pleasant woodland surroundings and has excellent buildings, which clearly could accommodate the whole of the camp without the slightest discomfort or overcrowding. It has been looted a good deal and on the whole is in good repair and condition.
At the conclusion of the visit to the camp, General Famin said that he had decided that everyone in this camp except Poles and Italian move to the Adolf Hitler Lager, and he issued on order to that effect.
The opinion of the Senior Allied Officer on this move is that there are a great many administrative difficulties in the way and it should not be regarded as immediately effective. Allied Headquarters in the camp has already sent a party to investigate the Adolf Hitler Lager and it has been found that before we can move there the water and electricity will have to be made serviceable and cleaning and billeting parties will have to spend some time there.
The party which went to the Adolf Hitler camp found that some 15,000 French civilian had been
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lodged in there about six hours before we arrived, with the inevitable results that the place has been very thoroughly looted before we wold stop it. This, added to a great amount of wilful damage, made the prospect of living there seem very unattractive. However the advance party got to work and attempted to clear it up. The biggest difficulty as getting the French to evacuate the barracked which has been allotted to British and American officers. This was quite impossible until Marushka came to our aid, (she was an interpreter of the Russian forces but was always dressed I mufti) and it was amusing to have to admit that where our efforts had failed to move the French she did it quite easily by slinging a tommy gun over the shoulder of her blue dress and just appeared in the doorway of each building. The French were out in about 15 minutes.
It was while we were at this camp that we saw German forces moving down one road and the Russian Army moving down another half a mile away – the camp being situated between these two roads. They appeared to be unaware of each other and our efforts to tell the Russians that the Germans were so near were ignored by their commander.
We were now beginning to realise that the Russian forces carried no food with them at all. Our rations had been decreasing steadily since their arrival, for although the quantities given earlier may sound impressive, it should be realised that this had to be divided between the 30,000 or so who now comprised the population of the camp. The whole food position was causing some concern as it was obvious that the local resources being found by ourselves and the Russian would shortly be exhausted, while there was no sign or our immediate repatriation. The general outlook was unsatisfactory and prisoners were feeling very hopeless, with the inevitable results that large numbers of all nationalities were leaving the camp hoping to find their own way west. This, of course, was happening all over Germany and resulted in General Eisenhower’s broadcast orders to stay put.
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The question of the move to the Adolf Hitler Lager has by now become a major issue between ourselves and the Russians. They had reduced the accommodation originally booked for us and it had been completely overrun and ransacked, so that it really seemed that a move would be no improvement. The Russians would not see this point of view and it was necessary to persuade Captain Medvedev to go over and inspect the proposed accommodation before he would agree that it might be better to stay where we are.
A new arrival today was the Russian officer in charge of morale and political education, who announced that he was detailed to provide entertainment and lectures for our delight. He also told us that a cinema would be got going and said that the first film would be “Hurricane.” He was anxious to organise amateur dramatic societies for all nationalities. This looked to us like a very long term policy, and caused people to feel more unsettled than ever, and more inclined to move west under their own steam.
On the morning of May 2nd, fighting seemed to flare up all round us, many shells passing over the camp and several landing inside. Machine gun bullets were whizzing about and people were warned to get under cover. One of our foraging partied on its way to a village near here found some German front line reinforcements dug in behind camouflaged machine guns and 40m.m. guns. They were a despondent crew, and once again asked the inevitable “Where are the Americans?” to whom they wished to surrender. The Russians subsequently reported that all Germans in the area had been captured and told us that they believed American Forces were only 12 miles to the west – this unfortunately proved to be false. Large numbers of German prisoner were passing all day, in a worse physical; condition than any we had seen before – they were so tired and starved through hiding in the woods that they could hardly get one foot in front of the other. They were a mixed lot of S.S. infantry and Luftwaffe aircrew. One column of about 5,000 of these prisoners was escorted by
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Only two Russians near the front and one at the rear – and yet seemed to be making no attempt to escape into the surrounding woods, which would have been very easy.
One of the occupations of the Intelligence branch of our organisation was investigating all the German files and documents. These contained a lot of interesting information and gave a good insight into the curious working of the official German mind. One file told of a prisoner charged with consorting with a German woman and paying her with chocolate. The German woman claimed that she was only exercising her profession. This was investigated and found to be true, but since chocolate was an irregular form of fee, she was sentences to a year’s imprisonment whilst the prisoner of war was sentenced to 10 days’ solitary confinement: Another strikes a plaintive note when complaining of the lack of tact in official propaganda leaflets. It appears that one day large placards were placed by the Germans in this camp and other Stalags saying “…Will the enemy land? He has tried before. Dieppe is the answer! And then, in triumphant words “Let him come!” The propaganda officer complained that the enemy obeyed the invitation the very day that the placards were posted up and that propaganda was only useful when carefully handled. Another document tells of a prisoner faced with a charge of living at various times with twelve German woman all the women denied the charge and the prisoner was found not guilty, with the comment that he must be boasting.
Other volumes told stories of successful escapes, but one contained a long bad luck story of six Frenchmen being swindles by a mysterious railway official in Berlin whom, according to orders from the escape organisation, the Frenchman met in a small café in Berlin – having successfully escaped from the camp. They were met according to plan by an alleged French civilian dressed as a German railway worker. He collected 400 marks from each of the prisoners and promised to send them home to France. That night he took them to a small
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local station and sealed them into a truck. After a for day journey they had become tired of waiting and were puzzled to find their compass indicating a southerly direction, so they broke open the wagon and looked out, to find that they were just crossing the Danish frontier. They travelled back to Berlin by passenger train after spending a couple of days riding about the Berlin underground to keep warm they contacted their railway worker again. Once again he took them to a siding and sealed them into a truck. By now they were thoroughly suspicious, and climbing out of the truck they read it destination label which showed that it was going to Russia. A little later the six prisoners. who were captured by Railway Police, denounced the men who had taken their money and send them the wrong way home.
Another German order on discipline among the documents found read “The best way to maintain discipline among the Russians is to beat the, but as the High Command has forbidden this, it should be done by the Camp Police.” One Camp Commandant was posted away after a number of his officers had made a joint complain about his manners and behaviour – the chief complaint seemed to be that he was bad tempered and ill-mannered at breakfast in the mess, and refused to say good morning to his officers: Another document told of the examination of a crashed American bomber just outside Berlin and how a German Hauptman ordered a number of Volkstrumers to climb into the aircraft and inspect it. They hesitate, until assured they had Hauptman’s full authority and then one of them climbed into the aircraft. While examining the controls and instruments in a gun turret he pressed the trigger and another Volksturmer who was standing outside looking in had both his legs blown off at the knee by a burst of fire. The German report added than among the objects found in the aircraft was a copy of instructions for pilots landing behind the Russian front.
On May 3rd and 4th, the battered and weary advance guard of the Norwegians, British and Americans at Joe’s Place folded their monogrammed
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sheets, and with a last regretful look at the cinema to seat a thousand with its piles of tangled film, marched back to Stalag IIIA over yesterday’s battlefield to the sound of desultory rifle shots from the woods. The American guard is due to arrive this morning. The Allies from the Stalag were defeated by the ever-increasing horde of refugee which poured into the Lager through the gate nearest the section allotted to the Stalag party. These refugees very naturally took up quarter in the nearest empty building. They were clean quarters, though somewhat short of furniture and fittings, which had been removed by the earlier refugees who were successfully evicted and sent to their own portion of the camp. The cleaning party them cleaned up, and the rooms were ready for the main party of British, Americans and Norwegians, only to be filled by another influx of refugees.
The sad story began when the advance guard arrived to find refugees in possession. At a conference between Allied officers and Captain Medvedev, area of the Lager were allotted to the various nations. Then came the problem of shepherding the refugees into the areas. Naturally, they were reluctant to leave, and there were some incidents; still, they left most of the buildings – but not so the beds or fitting. These they took with them, with the exception of the built-in wash-basin, which in many cases they wantonly smashed.
Much wanton damage was done all over the Lager, apart from the chaos caused by the rifling of desks and cupboards for the odd bottle or box of cigars. The attitude of those who caused most of the damaged was summed up by one youth ‘The Germans smashed my country up, so I smashed up theirs.’ Unfortunately that particular property which was smashed does not belong to the Germans, but to the Russians. For this reason, the Russians asked that a guard should be mounted over certain store houses in which valuable material was not only being looted, but wantonly smashed. Brand-new typewriters were to be seen, hanging drunkenly half out of their packing cases after being swiped with a crowbar; thousands of coloured pencils.
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Scattered from their boxes made the floor difficult to walk upon; movie projectors were torn from their cases and their lenses ripped away; delicate talkie apparatus was trodden underfoot. In response to the Russian request a guard of 600 Americans was mounted, with 200 men on duty at time. Keys and padlocks were found, and many of the buildings locked. The guard carried sticks after one and two incidents which occurred shortly after it was mounted. On Monday night the refugees began to turn ugly, and on several occasions was only averted by the prompt action of Marushka, a Russian girl attached to the Red Army interpreter. Marushka would turn out in the middle of the night, sling a tommy gun over her shoulder, run down to the stores and quell the trouble by sticking her gun into some infuriated refugee’s stomach and clearing him off in a language which body else understood.
In the end one of the refugees drew an automatic and after that is became clear that four out of five of them were armed. Batons are no good against guns and to the regret of the American guard, they had to be withdrawn.
In order to prevent the refugees looting in the area allotted to be American, British and Norwegians, it was found necessary to patrol it, and the refugees followed suit with a patrol around their area. An order was issued by the Russians that all firearms should be handed in, and a certain number were collected, but obviously not all.
On Tuesday, Captain Medvedev reduced the area allotted to the Stalag party by accommodation for 1,600 men, and also stated that the officer’s mess would be taken over as Russian headquarters. It was pointed out that this change left adequate room for our numbers, apart from the insufficiency of beds. The removal of the officers’ mess reduced the accommodation and also took the only available kitchens and dining rooms for the use of the officers. Captain Medvedev returned to the Stalag, and the Lager advance party continued their unequal struggle with the refugees.
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The situation for the British, Americans and Norwegians was further complicated by the failure of the authorities at Luckenwalde to turn the electricity on. A Russian officer assured the British officer i/c Detachment on Monday that the Burgomaster’s life depended on the power coming on the next day. Presumably the Burgomaster is dead for there was no power in the camp up to Wednesday evening. As far as the technicians were able to tell, the lighting, water, sewage and telephone systems had not been sabotaged, and all that was necessary for a final check was the throwing of the main switch in Luckenwalde. The Germans must have left Adolf Hitler Lager at a moment’s notice for there were half-eaten meals on the tables in the mess and unfinished cups of coffee in the anti-rooms. Tear-off calendars in the offices showed the date April 20.
“An auxiliary pumping plant was found and got to work, and it was possible to keep water on for a period of the day. The staff from the Stalag operating plant did a very good work to supply just under half a million gallons a day to those in the Lager.
“A number of auxiliary petrol plants for lighting were found in the stores, and one of these was installed to supply light to the temporary headquarters. The refugees rapidly caught on to the idea and now there are generators running all over the Lager with stolen petrol.
Two incidents which occurred on Wednesday brought the situation to the danger mark; one of the Stalag party was shot at by a refugee as he was cycling through the Lager behind a lorry, and a certain of the refugees were observed removing a stock of tear gas from the armoury to their part of the camp. So on Wednesday evening the advance party, with the exception of eight technicians to keep the essential services going and the American guard returned on foot to Stalag. The refugees, among their loot, glances up and stared at their departing Allies.”
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Today we notices large numbers of Russians racing back from the Berlin direction, who stated their destination was the Dresden and Czechoslovakian fronts. They appeared to have collected some very fine transport in Berlin and many Russian officers were speeding by in Mercedes Benz luxury cars. Among the troops seen in Luckenwalde today were some Russian women cavalry, who looked very smart and disciplined and who ride through the town two abreast. Their uniforms were covered with long dark blue cloaks and cavalry sabres hung by their sides. Their hair was cut short and they wore khaki Field Service caps. Members of our Police Patrol in Luckenwalde were invited to look over a 60 ton Stalin tank this morning, while it was undergoing running repairs at a tank repair park. This tank had a 125 m.m. gun fixed in a 360 degree turret and two heavy calibre machine guns. The armoured plate of the gun turret and two heavy calibre machine guns. The armoured plate of the gun turret was not less than 8” thick. They were not allowed inside the tank, but those who looked through the turret door said that is was very roomy indeed and had V type water cooled engine. The tank is built to a very fine proportions, low and flat topped and was painted grey green. It seemed to be about the same size as a German Tiger.
Great excitement was caused today by the arrival of two American correspondents – Bob Vermilion of the United Press and Lewis Azrael of the Baltimore News Post. They arrived here from the American bridgehead at Barby, passing through the link-up area at Wittenberg. One of their remarks is worth reproducing as late as this. They said “We came here in a jeep without any pass and had no trouble getting through the Russian lines – one of the most amazing things we have ever seen is the way the Germans greeted us here. English and Americans seem to be the most popular people in the world and one German threw his arms round my neck when he heard I was American. There have been any number of Germans drowned trying to swim the Elbe to the American lines and the mass surrender of the whole division is not at all uncommon. German civilians in the American
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occupied area are giving no trouble at all -there is no sniping or booby traps or any of the things that were threatened. The Germans seem to be so regimented and accustomed to taking orders that their attitude is:”Nazis have gone - here is someone else in a uniform giving orders ad they obey.” There was great excitement in the came as we were able to send letter back through the kindness of these two correspondents, knowing they if they got home, which was more than likely, they would be the first out people had had for six months. Captain Edward Beatty, a United Press Correspondent who had been a prisoner, returned which his colleagues and took back information about our numbers and situation to Supreme Allied Headquarter. A statement issued at 1630 hours that evening by the Senior Allied Officer ran as follows: -
“An arrangement, at present somewhat unofficial, has been made with Lieutenant Klietz of the American 83rd Division to start evacuating American, British and Norwegian personnel from this camp tomorrow. Russian agreement has not yet been obtained, but it is intended to proceed with the arrangement. Details will be issued to Unit Commander later.”
This raised all our hope and everybody went round congratulating everybody else and packing their kit. It all came to nothing, however, for on the next day, May 5th, the following statement was issued:-
“The Senior Allied Officer reports that the surgeon in charge of the convoy of 23 U.S. Army ambulances which arrived here at 1300 hours, Lieut. Col. D.W. Clotselter, of the 83rd Division, has given the following information.
“The ambulance convoy will today evacuate the bulk of the American, British and Norwegian sick, and will return tomorrow for the balance.
“The lorry convoy in on its way here, by the Lieut. Col. Cannot give its time of arrival or strength because his division has been busy evacuating an ex-prison camp at Altengrabow. Altengrabow is in the Russian occupation zone,
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but the prison camp there was liberates by the Americans. The bulk of the lorries for our evacuation have to come today from Hildesheim, just south of Hanover, 135kn miles from here. They are bringing 1,000 K-rations which will be issued to Americans, British and Norwegians immediately on arrival.
“The following are the details which Lieut. Col. Clotselter has given to the Senior Allied Officer regarding standard evacuation route which the 83rd division has been using for other Camps.
“Sick will be taken to Schonebeck, eight miles south south-east of Magdeburg, where they will be delivered to a Collecting Centre. From there, after treatment, the less serious cases will be flown to Hildesheim. Serious cases will probably be sent back to Base Hospitals
“The fit will be taken by lorry via the American bridgehead over the Elbe at Zerbst, opposite Barby, and direct to Hildesheim, and distance of 240 miles in all. Form Hildesheim, British personnel are flown direct to England, and American to the the [sic] Channel Coast to await early departure to the United States. It is presumed that Norwegian personnel will proceed to England.
“The Senior Allied Officer state, I hope it will be possible to arrange for all British, Americans and Norwegians here to be evacuate by this procedure. Naturally it cannot be regarded as finally settled and we must await the arrival of the trucks.’”
Later the same day hope sprang again when this state was issued:-
“Captain Sincavich, U.S. Army, a P.O.W. contact officer from S.H.Q.A.E.F. arrived in the Camp at 1630 today. He brought two lorry loads of bread and two of K-rations, which have already been handed over to Supply.
Captain Sincavich has given the following information to the Senior Allied Officer:
“The main convoy of truck will not arrive until tomorrow when, Captain Sincavich hopes,
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sufficient will come to complete the evacuation. They will bring more K-rations with them. As regards the route of our evacuation he says that the trucks will go to Schonebeck, eight miles south south-east of Magdeburg in the first instance, where it is possible that personnel will be transferred to a train for Hildesheim. Alternatively the trucks may go right through to Hildesheim. The routine at Hildesheim is the ex- P.O.W.’s are de-loused, reclothed if necessary, and generally dusted off. They are then formed into groups of 26 and flown of in C-47’s, the British straight to England, and the Americans to the Channel Coast. The average stay at Hildesheim has been 24 to 48 house and is to some extent dependent on flying weather.
“Captain Sincavich took away with him nominal rolls of British, Americans and Norwegians and requested documents and information regarding German war criminals which will be given to him tomorrow when he returned as he hoped to do.”
Nineteen American lorries, mostly driven by coloured troops, arrived on the evening of the 6th of May, and it was generally felt that at long last we were really on our way home. Slight doubts arose, however, when at 2000 hours that evening the Russians informed us that no prisoners could leave with the American lorries sine Russian authority had not yet been received from Koniev’s Headquarters. Despite this, we felt that we should nevertheless, go in defiance of Russian orders. Imagine our dismay next morning when the Russians fired over our heads of our people embarking in these lorries and forced them back into the camp. Each lorry was searched as it left to make sure that it carried no prisoners and vehicles would be interned if they removed a single prisoner. It was impossible to describe our feelings as these lorries drove through the came on their way back, to the American lines with nobody on board at all, and it cannot be denied that most of us for the first and probably last time,
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[IMAGE – As made by out “Tin- Bashers” from Red Cross packing cases, milk and Jam tine, etc, ]
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[IMAGE – Messing equipment supplied to each room of 16 officers.]
[IMAGE - Two-tier bed, wooden frame with straw-filled palliasse.]
[IMAGE – Reading the “LOG” on a summer morning.]
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felt that we were completely cut off from our own countries and Governments There seemed to be no good reason for this Russian order and we all thought there must be some political influence at work to prevent our departure. This was confirmed a night or two later with the Russian broadcast about alleged holding by the Allies of 800 Russian officers who had be captured fighting with the German in Normandy shortly after D-Day. The reception of this broadcast deepened our gloom and we began to wonder if we should ever get home at all.
Another result of this general pessimism was that more and more people set off on their own for the American lines, until finally between five and six thousand British and American prisoners had left the camp. Not all of these had easy passages, as the following account will show.
“Three officers left here the day before yester and marched in a south-westerly direction towards the American line – they had hone about 10 miles when they were stopped by a German patrol of one Feldwebel ad 9 men who asked them where they were going and were very hostile. One finding that British were heading for American lines they demanded safe conduct to the same destination saying that if this were denied they would shoot our men. Fortunately senior of these three officers thought quickly and pointed out that a party of thirteen was extremely unlikely to get through and the only result of the whole manoeuvre as proposed by the Feldwebel would be to the them all interned, He also told them how well the German prisoners were being treated by the Russians and suggested that they gave themselves up The Germans were all armed with Tommy Guns and had they forced the situation it might have been very unpleasant, However when out men produced some chocolate and cigarettes sufficient weight was apparently added to make the argument convincing and the Germans went off in another direction.”
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Many groups or individuals encounters such Germans , and unfortunately did not all have such an easy conclusions.
We were now getting daily visited from the Russian officers who all said they were repatriation officials and who all said that we should be leaving the day after their visit. Each one seemed to have a slightly better story than the last, and it was impossible not to continue hoping that one of them knew what he was talking about. This situation dragged on for another 123 days, during which time a party of about 40 officers and N.C.O.’s who had left here to go west, arrived back in camp having been picked up by the Russians and taken to Stalag Luft III Sagen our old camp in Silesia. They told us that the town of Sagan has ben totally devastated, and that German prisoners of war arrived there at a rate of 20,000 a day. It appeared that Stalag Luft III, which houses 12,000 British and American Ait Force officers in cramped conditions, now held 143,000 German prisoners.
This long delay gave the Intelligence staff of the R.A.F. organisation chance to make a very full investigation into Germans who were guilty of crimes against prisoners of war. A few of the cases are listed here.
The list of War Criminals was handed to the U.S. authorities wen whey were in the camp included the names of several German officers, we’ll known to members of the camp. Bemann, Sturzkopf, Simm and Rademacher are included among the most notorious. Two Germans responsible for the shooting of an American Air Corps officer in the centre camo at Sagan-Hauptmann Seifert and Feldwebel Althof - are also listed. A member of the Gestapo group responsible for the murders of the British officers at the same camp is named by Group Captain Kellet. Apart from the Germans known to us personally for their incorrect behaviour and ill treatment of Allied officers and men, there is a very comprehensive list of the principle Nazis of Luckenwalde; many of their names have been supplied by Sergeant Major Henderson, British Man
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of Confidence in Stalag IIIA. Their offences range from pilfering of the Red Cross store to actual brutality and manhandling of Allied P.O.W’s.
Hauptmann Bemann is charged with the deliberate destruction and theft of clothing and food belonging to British Officers; he is further indicted with being “continually insulating to British officer in his remarks and bearing.”
Major Sturzkopf – “ Bulk Issues” – is charges with continually lying and misrepresentation to the calculated detriment of the interests of the British prisoners, moreover he encouraged his solders to be as vicious and ruthless as possible during searches and this caused wanton looting and destruction of their property. He sentenced many prisoners to the cells without a shred of evidence against them and was known to be generally deceitful and vicious.
Hauptmann Rademacher incited his soldiers to strike British officers with their rifle butts, he displayed a violent and uncontrollable temper and drew and fired off his revolver on numerous occasions with the idea of intimidating the prisoners or provoking and incident. He lost no opportunity of humiliating and ill-treating British officers and took a fiendish delight in the destruction of their clothing under the guide of searching them.
Last, but not least there is Hautpmann Simm, the hotel manager, who probably achieved the greater personal loathing among Allied prisoner than any other of his colleagues. Possessed of a mean and spiteful nature, he did everything possible to make us uncomfortable or to humiliate us. He incited the Camp Commandant to take spiteful action against the prisoners and lost no opportunity of insulting them himself.
A case outside our own experience is that of Lieut. Janke, charged with brutality to the Polish officers of this camp during the move here. This brave German is now the possessor of a set of Polish papers taken from a dead Pole and is for the moment spared the knowledge that he is being searched for under is alias as well as his
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proper name and that his ponderous subterfuges were transparent from the first.
Lastly there is Obergefreite Gisevius who is perhaps typical of the whole Nazi system. For this Corporal had more power in the Stalag IIIA than the Commandant himself. A rabid Nazi, he was “the power behind the throne” and dictated his wished and commands to this superiors whenever he chose to do so. He was responsible for keeping many prisoners in the cells for months at a stretch without a trial and doing his best to deprive them of their food. Many eccentricities of German conduct are explained by the presence of such men as this corporal in the ranks of the German army.”
Two more officers who returned told the following story:-
“We got as far as Juterbog and found that we could not get on the direct Dresden road as there was a German pocket in the way, so with the help of Russian transport we turned south-east and reached Muskau on the first day. All that was necessary to get rides on the Russian lorries was to ask one of the Russian girl traffic controllers to stop a lorry going our way. Out identity was never really seriously questioned. The statement that we were British was almost always immediately accepted and we were sometimes embraced enthusiastically and invited to celebration feasts. At Maskau we were billeted in a large hotel which was the Russian officers’ mess. Here we met out first Russian Air Force officers, a Major and two Captains. They were the most smartly dressed and polished Russian officers we had yet seen. They were both fighter pilots, the major claiming 73 air victories and the Captains about 50 apiece. We got on to the subject of tactics, types and performances right away. They said that their best and latest fighter was the “MYK” with a top speed of about 310 miles an hour. They thought that the Airocobra compared very favourably with the best fighters but obviously considered that our people were line-shooting when told of the speed of some of our own
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aircraft. The latest spitfire the Russians had flown was the Mark 5 and they firmly refused to believe the latest marks do any better. “You cannot change an aircraft such as that,” they said, “it is always the same aircraft no matter what you do to it.” All these officers had fought the Spanish campaign and were now flying Yaks.”
The Russian authorities at Sagen had visited Stalag Luft III cemetery there and places flowers and wreaths on the graved of the 50 North Camp officer murdered by the Gestapo in April ’44. Following this they took photographs of the graves and the memorial, sending the negatives straight back to Moscow.
At 21.30 hours on the 9th May, the Norwegians were told they would be leaving in lorries in 45 minutes time. Many of these officers had already gone to bed and some were strolling about inside the camp. However, loading started under flood-lighting at midnight, the arrangements being that 10 officers and their luggage would travel in each lorry. Owing to the short notice, it was impossible for them to have a meal before they left, but most of them had time to boil up a brew, since the greater part of their luggage was already packed. Of the 1,044 Norwegian there, 806 left in these lorries; 238, comprising the aged and sick, being left behind for later repatriation.
Nothing of importance happened until May 11th when we received another visit from General Famin. In a meeting lasting from 23.00 hours in the 11th until 0200 hours on the 12th he expressed the greatest dis-satisfaction over the unofficial evacuation from this camp, and demanded from the Senior British officer a written report there and then. He also obtained a written report from the senior American officer. He told us that the American General Hodges had confirmed that no orders had been given on the American side to evacuate this camp, and added that is any further British left the camp, the Senior British officer would be interned. It appeared that the General had expressed strong disapproval of the manner in which his staff here
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had looked after us, particularly in the matter of food, and he informed us that Captain Medvedev would be court-martialled. With regard to the date of our repatriation, the only information that he gave was that the Russian authorities now only awaited word from the British and Americans that they were ready to receive the camp. The General also issued orders that the French were to leave Stalag IIIA and move to the Adolf Hitler Lager, and by 5 o’clock that evening larger number of them were on the way. We were authorised to take over two camps previously occupied by the German staff of Stalag IIA – this gave us much more space and surroundings were much pleasanter- plenty of gardens, orchards, etc. having been planted around these quarters.
By about May 13th, the Russians were once again getting very tired of having people for our camp wandering about the town and district, and demanded that we should have frequent parades to make sure everyone was staying within camp bounds. They went to the lengths of apprehending and returning British ex-prisoners under armed escort, and demanding that they should be subjected to disciplinary actions. It became evident that house to house searched by the Russians were being made to prevent entry into these houses of allied ex-prisoners, who the Germans were begging to go and live with them as some form of protection against the Russian soldiery. It was now becoming usual for a couple of Americans to arrive in a jeep during the afternoon drive around the country, and since they were not aware of the strength of the Russian feeling about the earlier unofficial evacuation, they must have been somewhat taken aback by the Russians’ distinctly emphatic attitude about their immediate departure. They were not allowed to contact allied personnel and were always told to return toothier lines immediately. This did not, however, prevent messages getting through which we hoped would speed out repatriation.
Despite all Russian precautions, prisoners were leaving the camp daily and heading westwards.
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In view of the Russian feeling in this matter, the decrease in our numbers was becoming serious and he Russian orders were reiterated by the Senior Allied officers, together with a repetition of their own orders on the subject. But despite all this, it was difficult to achieve or maintain a philosophical attitude. The Russians plays, literature, films etc., had never materialised, and the majority of the prisoners who had nothing to do found time hanging heavy on their hands. We were reminded that once upon a time we were able to be cheerful with the certainty of many months and even years of captivity ahead, and told that the prospect of a few days or even a week or two should not dismay us. Such statements were small comfort, because it was this latter fact which really caused the dissatisfaction among us - the knowledge that we could, without any enemy interference, be home in a matter of hours, overcame any philosophy one could evolve.
[Image – “GONE AWAY.”]
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Any Enquiries should be made to :-
BRYCE COUSENS,
THE COTTAGE,
THIRLESTAINE HOUSE,
CHELTENHAM, GLOS.
Published by Bryce Cousens.
Printed by Burr’s Press, Rodney Road, Cheltenham.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Log
Description
An account of the resource
Experiences of the prisoners of war in the Belaria camp of Stalag Luft 3 by Squadron Leader Bryce Cousens. It contains stories, poems and illustrations.
Creator
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Bryce Cousens
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1947
Contributor
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Claire Monk
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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202 printed sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Text. Poetry
Artwork
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MElliottJD19200425-210211-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Luckenwalde
Poland
Poland--Żagań
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1943
1944-02-14
1944-02-21
1944-03
1944-04
1944-04-01
1944-04-19
1944-05-21
1944-05-22
1944-06-05
1944-06-07
1944-06-11
1944-06-12
1944-06-16
1944-06-17
1944-06-19
1944-06-25
1944-07-03
1944-07-08
1944-07-24
1944-08-13
1944-08-21
1944-09-04
1944-09-18
1944-09-28
1944-11-06
1944-11-20
1944-12-04
1944-12-20
1944-12-23
1945-01-30
arts and crafts
entertainment
escaping
Holocaust
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
prisoner of war
sport
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 1
Stalag Luft 3
the long march
V-1
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/765/10766/PDakinF1701.2.jpg
da150b71850375ee4ba3691ca719be94
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/765/10766/ADakinF170918.2.mp3
308c81c30f60ff9f605a4bb4dd4d242e
Dublin Core
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Title
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Dakin, Freda
F Dakin
Description
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An oral history interview with Freda Dakin nee Palin (b. 1926). She lived in Manchester during the war and was evacuated.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-09-18
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Dakin, F
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CH: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Cathie Hewitt. The interviewee is Freda Dakin. Also present is Rosita [Meladay]. We are at Mrs Dakin’s home at [Buzz] Washingborough and the date is the 18th of September 2017. Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed, Freda.
FD: You’re welcome.
CH: You could start by telling me something about your childhood, where you were about and about your parent’s please.
FD: Well, as you know my name’s Freda Dakin nee Freda Palin. P A L I N. I was one of five girls. I was the fourth of the family. Unfortunately, I’ve lost all my sisters. My Edna was the first one to go. She was only fifty four but she died. And then there was, Francis was my eldest and then Helen who was just twenty months older than me and then she died and I lost my baby sister last Christmas. So, I’m the only one remaining. I was born in Salford which was next door to Manchester and my father was a milkman and in those days they had a milk cart. They didn’t have any cover and he used to go out in all sorts of weather. It was hail, rain or snow. And he was a wonderful father. He wasn’t, how can I explain it? He wasn’t a [pause] he didn’t have the teaching he should have had. He could have been a clever man I think. But he was, as I say always out in all sorts of weather and he always kept a roof over our heads. We always had a good table, a good fire but he was a little bit strict and he never swore. Never swore. But he was strict. And I can remember when we used to be going out and he used to say, ‘You come back to this house, lady, as you went out.’ And I said to my eldest sister, ‘What does he mean?’ She said, ‘You come back a virgin.’ [laughs] And yes, he was very strict you know. We had, and we had to be in at 11 o’clock at night. No matter if we were in our teens, even if we were courting, ‘No lady would be out at this time of the night. No decent lady.’ But as I say he was a good man and I had a good mother. My mother was Irish. She was from Belfast and, but as I say I’ve we had our arguments as sisters usually do. I was evacuated to Accrington, Accrington Stanley and the couple there had no children. They wanted to adopt me and my mother said no. ‘No, I don’t care how many children I’ve got you’re not having her.’ I don’t know why because I was the mug of the family. But yes, I had a good childhood really. Mum and dad were pretty strict but when I think about it it was good. It was a good thing. In those days it was, you know. And as I say then, well during the war when the war started as I say I was evacuated just before the war started. I was evacuated in August and then the war started on September the 3rd as you know. I was evacuated with a friend of mine, Evelyn and I remember it was a Sunday, September the 3rd and Margaret and Norman that had taken us in and said, ‘Now, be very quiet. This is Chamberlain coming on the radio.’ We sat there you see. ‘Now, war has been declared.’ And Evelyn and I looked at each other and Margaret said, ‘Oh dear,’ she said, ‘That means we can’t keep you, dear.’ So, we said, ‘Why?’ She said, ‘I’m having a baby.’ Well, in those days when you were eleven year or twelve year old and you used to, we were grinning and nudging each other. ‘She’s having a baby. What’s that?’ So that’s when they found us this couple around the corner at Hyndburn Road, Accrington. Auntie Annie and Uncle Jack. They had no children. So I went to them and Evelyn went next door to the Barnes family and I had a wonderful life. As I say they wanted to adopt me. And I wouldn’t have minded really because I would have had everything [laughs] and then I just went back after the Christmas. My mum wanted me back. She said, ‘I can’t do without her.’ And as I said I went to Grecian Street School and there was quite a lot of Jewish girls there and quite a few from Austria. But they wouldn’t talk and they’ve been smuggled out you know just before the war. They knew it was coming. They were very nice. I’ve got photographs of them. They were very nice people as I say. And then I just started work. Well, you did start work at fourteen in those days. And then of course when the air raid came the site, the bombs were dropping before the sirens came because we said, ‘Oh my God what’s that?’ And then the sirens. So, how they got through the network I do not know. It was horrendous. Mum, ‘Freda, upstairs. Get the blankets and the cushions.’ And I got to the top of the stairs, coming down with the blankets and the cushions fortunately it saved me because a bomb dropped quite near us and it threw me down the stairs and with the blankets and that it saved me. And my dad too. We had what was called an Anderson shelter. They had the Anderson shelter which everybody thought was wonderful because you had a back garden you could do that. There was the Morrison shelter. Now, those were, if you had a back yard or a big dining room they put it in the dining room and you used it as a table and then at night you got under it. That was the Morrison one. And then there was those that had little houses. We had some little houses. They were two up two down and there was no room for either a Morrison shelter or an Anderson shelter so they built a little shelter at the bottom of each street. There might only be a good, a little dozen houses in this streets and then when the sirens went the neighbours all came out and went in these shelters. And of course then with the all clear they all went home. And there was one time and it was near St Andrew’s School and the all clear went and they all come out. They were just coming out and a bomb hit it and it was a flying bomb. They had the Doodlebugs but these were a flying bomb what they did, on parachutes and the planes went out so the all clear went. But these bombs were still dropping and it hit this shelter. They were all killed. It was very sad. Well, as I say we were lucky. We had this shelter and the Blitz as I say it threw me down the stairs which I’m lucky. I’m still lucky. I don’t know why I’ve reached ninety because I was the oddball from the family. I’ve told you before haven’t I? And my dad, bless him he’d made a bucket as a helmet [laughs] and he used to take us down to this shelter one at a time with a piece of metal over our heads from the kitchen down to the bottom of the garden. Make sure we were in the shelter. And then one at a time we went down and he, bless him and of course we all had to sit there and wait. Well, one of my sisters Edna, bless her she’d been to a friends for tea as they called it and of course she was coming home on the bus and the driver got out. Well, we were right near the race course, Manchester Race Course and he stopped there and he said, ‘Right. Not going any further. Can’t go any further. Everybody out. We’re going to the shelter.’ And Edna said, ‘Well, I’m not. I’m going home.’ And he tried to grab her. He said, ‘You’re not in this.’ And she ran for about a mile and of course the back entry and we were all sat there and my mum said, ‘Listen.’ And it was Edna shouting, ‘Dad. Dad.’ And she said, ‘That’s Edna.’ And he got the back gate open and managed to get her in and she collapsed and we thought she’d died. My mum, she said, ‘She’s gone, Jim.’ It’s very sad. She [unclear] she said, ‘Oh, thank God. She’s breathing.’ And she, she ran all the way. She said, the wardens kept saying, trying to grab her. The air raid wardens. Anyway, fortunately she lived. And the next day oh it was horrendous. And my mum I don’t know why but in those days well you couldn’t get toys the same you see and she had a doll and it was broken and she sent it to the Doll’s Hospital in Manchester Piccadilly. And she said, ‘If you want that doll for Christmas you’d better go.’ It was the next day after the air raid [laughs] and we went into Manchester, that was my younger sister and I went. And I can see it now. The rubble in Piccadilly. And it was red more Stretford way and I thought Mr and Mrs Bibby said, ‘Why has your mother sent you out in this?’ Everybody had come for a look and it was still glowing in the, in the distance, and the smoke and the rubble. We were picking our way out and [laughs] the Doll’s Hospital was closed. I couldn’t get it [laughs] I went home but as I say there was a lot worse off than us. A lot worse off. Of course, we had a cellar as well so that we were lucky that way. But me I’m a happy go lucky person really because I used to be out when the sirens were going and my dad used to say to me, ‘I’m going in.’ We called it the Monkey Run. It was the main street. The main road. And we were after the boys you see. And we said, ‘Nah. There’s nothing dropping yet. When they start to drop then we’ll go home.’ But as I say I can see that now I was nearly down the stairs. I remember it. The cushions and falling down the stairs. In a way we can laugh at it now but it was horrendous. But there again hearing the bombs dropping before the sirens were going because we didn’t know what hit us. We never got a window broken. Yeah. And the bombs were dropping right near us and not one of our windows in the house had broken. And I remember once [laughs] the sirens went. There again, we make, ‘Have you got this?’ or ‘Have you got that?’ You know. Of course, when you imagine five girls and a man and woman, you know, yes we’ve got this, got that. My dad taking us down one at a time and we got on the shelter. We said, ‘Oh, it’s quiet.’ My dad opened what little bit of a door we had. No. No. And then he heard the air raid wardens walking down the back yard and he said, me dad shouts, ‘Anything doing yet, mate?’ They says, ‘Where are you?’ He says, ‘We’re in the air raid shelter.’ He said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘The all clear went soon after.’ He said. It was over [laughs] We were there two hours. And another time we had this little case with all the policies and what have you and my sister came and her boyfriend was at the side of her and she says, ‘What are you doing down there, Jim?’ He said, ‘Well, what are you doing down there?’ She was sat on the case. So we had some good laughs, you know. And so there again my dad used to say, ‘I’ll go and get a drink.’ We’d say, ‘Well, be careful out there.’ A piece of metal over his head going up the back yard. The back garden. But as I say I can laugh at some things but when we realise how serious it was and I can still feel going down those stairs. I really can. But as I say I’m still here to tell the tale and I’m a lot luckier than a lot of people. A lot luckier. As I say now I’m the only one out of my sisters that’s living and I can tell a tale can’t I, Zita?
RM: Oh, you can tell a tale. Yeah.
FD: But as I say it’s different these days. I suppose nowadays they would just put one bomb on and everybody would go. It’s so different because as I say we could have our laughs and what, you know but there again, ‘You pinched my cushion.’ [laughs] Can you imagine? My dad with six girls. But he was so good with us. I can see him now. ‘Next one.’ [laughs] Going down the back garden, as I say. We were lucky being a family of seven that with our rations we could get a joint of meat at the weekends. You see if you were on your own you’d only get a chop. But if you had all these coupons you could get a roast. So, in a way being a big family helped. That you could get bigger rations and you could share out more. But as I say I remember Gladys, bless her and she was on her own and she said, ‘Oh, I am annoyed.’ We said, ‘Why? What’s the matter?’ Just been in to the Co-op and it was my ration day, she said, ‘For my piece of cheese and she weighed it on the, on the scales and she cut some off.’ She cut, it would be about a quarter of a pound or something, ‘And what she cut off she put in her mouth and eat it and —’ she said, ‘I could have made a sandwich of that.’ [laughs] I said, ‘Oh Gladys, what a shame.’ So it you know we had laughter but can you imagine anybody doing that? I mean if it had been me I’d have said, ‘Oh, go on love. It’s a bit over but it’s for you.’ But she said, I can see it now so as I say being a bigger family we were better off. We could get bigger pieces of this and bigger [pause] and my dad being a milkman he served a lot of Jews in Manchester. The big warehouses. And they used to help him out. And as I say and he used to go to this shop himself, ‘A bit extra for you today Jimmy.’ And he’d say, ‘Thanks very much.’ And as I say we did very well for rations. We never went without a good meal. I felt sorry for those that were on their own, bless them. You know, because they got no extra and as I say I’m a very lucky lady and I thank God that he was there for me and all those who went before me. But I don’t whether I could live through it now. I doubt it. But there again at my age who wants me? [laughs] I’ve got, I’m lucky that I’ve got very good friends and helpers. As I’ve said, I’ve told you before I’m a really lucky lady. I really am. And what health I’ve got for my age I do alright. It’s some memories I can laugh at because my friend and I go down the Monkey Run for the lads even though the bombs were dropping. I’d say, ‘We’d better go in now, hadn’t we?’ And I remember the sirens went and I said to my friend , Grace, ‘Are we going home?’ So, she said, ‘Is there any — ’ ‘No. They’ve not dropped them yet.’ So I went home and my mum as soon as she heard the sirens she was out first down the back garden and I thought, oh, I’ve not heard anything. And we used to have a little Kelly lamp in the kitchen. My dad went out to get some coal and he left the door open a bit and I’m like this with my coat shielding it. He said, ‘What are you doing?’ I said, ‘You never know, that could be, that could be a German up there going over.’ ‘Oh, don’t be silly. The sirens would have gone.’ I said, ‘What do you mean?’ I said, ‘They went half an hour ago.’ I was on the Monkey Run you see. My mother [unclear] ‘Why didn’t you tell us?’ I said, ‘Well, I thought you’d all hear it.’ They were chattering that much that they didn’t hear the sirens. But they didn’t worry me. If I have to go I have to go which that was my attitude and I’m still here to tell the tale aren’t I? And I thank you very much for you coming.
CH: How old were you when the war started?
FD: Sorry?
CH: How old were you when the war started?
FD: I’ve got to think. Twelve.
CH: So you were still at school.
FD: Oh yes.
CH: So what would have been a typical day for you during the war?
FD: What would be what love?
CH: A typical day for you as a school child in the war. When you got up in the morning and go to school.
FD: Yes. Well, when I was evacuated their school they used to go in the mornings and our school would go in the afternoons. And the week after we’d go in the mornings and they’d go in the afternoons. And those, and then when we were at school we would either go to the museum. The teacher would take us to a museum and I remember —
[doorbell — recording paused]
CH: Ok. Freda, we’ll restart again.
FD: Right love. Well, as I say we used to go either to museum or churches and they went to the police station once and I always remember it was a Wednesday. And so I can always say I’ve been locked up because I was in a, I went in a, which the cells were different in those days and he said that’s where, so if we have to sleep in there we had to sleep in there and he locked the door. So, I can honestly say I’ve been locked up [laughs] And then I remember this sergeant and we used to have the gas masks and they were in cardboard boxes and we used to put a piece of string and carry it around your shoulder or you could buy cases for them. Leather cases or cotton cases. Make them posh. And there was this, he said, ‘Now then, something new’s come out. It’s a special powder to take finger prints.’ So, I always remember that’s when this powder came out. It was 1939. No. Yes, it was. 1939. And he said, ‘You see this?’ And it was a plain piece of cardboard and he put this stuff on and you could, you leant in to it. ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘That’s your fingerprints.’ So, I said, ‘So if I pinch that you’d find me out?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ ‘And if I could pinch this?’ And it was a gas mask case but it was like in a crocodile skin. He said, ‘No. We can’t do that yet, love.’ He says, ‘It’s only got to be plain stuff where your fingerprints are. But — ’ he said, ‘We’re working on it.’ So, I know 1939 that’s when that powder came out for fingerprints. And it’s little things like that I remember. And as I say, I was in the church choir for Christmas as an angel [laughs] Nearest thing I’ll ever get to it I think, Zita.
RM: Yeah. I think it is.
FD: But Auntie Annie and Uncle Jack were fantastic with me. As I say they wanted to adopt me because they had no children and then Auntie Annie died and then Uncle Jack died and he left me a little bit of money in his will. So I bought, with part of it I bought a ring and when I look at it I think of them and I’ve got a little photograph of them. And they treated me, oh it was fantastic. Of course, being in, during, before the war we all used cups and saucers, you know. But when I went to Auntie Annie and Uncle Jack’s it was a mug. And the first time she gave me a mug I said, ‘Where’s the saucer?’ [laughs] She said, ‘You don’t have saucers. Only on a Sunday.’ So, yeah she was, oh they did, they treated me rotten and on Friday we used to go to the market. ‘What do you fancy for your tea, lass?’ It was always lass, you see and so she said, ‘Do you like this?’ ‘Do you like that?’ I said, ‘Oh, I like those prawns.’ And she used to make her own ham, her own balm cakes. Warm balm cakes and they was for prawns for me. Oh, it was lovely as I say. And an outdoor toilet. No. No. As I say with a piece of wood with a hole in it and oh God I used to [pause] and I dropped the torch down it once. I said, ‘Uncle Jack. I’ve dropped the torch down.’ [laughs] ‘Eeh lass. What are we going to do with you?’ And Auntie Annie taught me how to darn properly because we used to have to wear long black stockings for the school, you see. Your uniform. And I had a hole and I didn’t bother. I just more or less [laughs]. I was getting my coat on and he said, ‘Ay lass, you’ve got a lump on your leg. What is it? Hey, Annie come and have a look at this. The lass has got a lump on her leg.’ And I said, ‘It’s not. It’s my darn.’ He said, ‘Your what?’ I said, ‘I darned it.’ He said, ‘Oh Annie, show her how to darn.’ And from there I used to weave. She taught me how to weave. Yeah. So, as I say I fell in lucky in a way. Because the couple we had at first, they put us in these houses, because she was having this baby you see. But [unclear] having a baby. I never found out what she had anyway. And he, Norman worked for her father and he was a chauffeur and so on Sundays he could take us out and we used to go out for a drive. Before we found that she had a baby.
RM: So, were you not frightened, Freda?
FD: Sorry?
RM: Were you not frightened?
FD: Me? No.
RM: At that age?
FD: No.
RM: When you were going to school and things.
FD: Nothing would frighten me now, Zita
RM: I know you don’t get frightened about many things but that as a child you weren’t.
FD: No. No.
RM: You and your friends
FD: No. No. It never frightened me. Because as I say you used to walk on the Monkey Run and they’d say, ‘The sirens have gone.’ ‘Oh well, if they drop a bomb we’ll go in.’
RM: And they say children don’t feel fear don’t they as much?
FD: Well, no. I never felt it, you know. Most likely would have done had I, if I’d been out in the Blitz.
RM: Yeah.
FD: But I wasn’t. I was inside you see. But as I say the bombs were dropping before the air raid sirens had finished.
RM: But you saw a lot of the damage that had been done.
FD: Oh yes.
RM: So did that not frighten you?
FD: No.
RM: Once you realised what these bombs could do?
FD: No.
RM: No.
FD: No. No, I’m just in, I don’t know. If I went tomorrow it’s God’s will. I go to church, you see. But no. I think what has to be has to be and like I had four sisters. Edna, bless her the one that we thought she’d, she was only fifty four when she died and a bigger Christian you couldn’t wish to meet. But somebody said, ‘Well, God’s taken her to spend her spirit down to somebody else.’ No, it doesn’t. No. When I saw all the smoke and the redness and I thought it was a shock in a way.
RM: More of a shock than anything.
FD: Yes. It’s horrible. I mean you could, as I say it was still smouldering.
RM: Yeah.
FD: When I was walking in the Deansgate, in Piccadilly. And of course I was being more nosy than anything.
RM: Curiosity more than anything.
FD: It was. I was thinking what had happened. It wasn’t as though I was thinking oh that’s [unclear] You see, you know me. Take it or leave it. But no I can see it now and Mr and Mrs Bibby and I can, and as I say stood in Piccadilly and I thought oh God and the fires are still burning. So it was horrendous really because it was not just a couple of bombs. It was bomb after bomb after bomb. And what it was, where we lived we lived by the River Irwell and it was the Broughton Foundry. It was where they made the ammunitions and my sister worked there. Edna. Instead of going in the Forces she was called up, see. Francis had a baby. So I think they were after that. Broughton Copper Works it was called and that’s where the munitions, some of the munitions were being made. Ammunitions. And the river, they used to always go for a river because that’s where they knew where they were making them and that’s where they were trying to drop them. They were getting them in Manchester itself you see. And the night before the Blitz Bernard my husband where he worked had the Christmas dinner at Victoria Hotel on the corner and that went completely. Fortunately, it was the night before. Had they been there because it started at 6 o’clock at night they would have been all killed.
CH: It was just before Christmas.
FD: Yes.
CH: Yeah.
FD: Yes. It was just before Christmas. And by the way I’ve got a book. I don’t know if you’d like it or not it’s on the Blitz.
CH: We’ll just pause for a moment there.
[recording paused]
CH: Ok. Thank you, Freda.
FD: I was happy go lucky. Nothing worried me. And my mum said, ‘You can’t go out in this. What if the sirens go?’ I said, ‘Well, if they go they go don’t they?’ You see, and she, ‘Don’t be so cheeky.’ Oh, I could give cheek like that you see. And I said, ‘Alright. I’ll come in when the sirens go.’ But then of course I tell lies. I’d say, ‘Well, I didn’t hear them go.’ And Grace my friend she was the same. She said, ‘What are we going home for?’ She says. ‘To sit with them?’ You see. No. I was such a, it wasn’t, nothing worries me now because what has to be has to be and I thought, I said, ‘Well, if we get some we’ll go in if the bomb drops.’ And that’s us you see. We went out every night and occasionally there was a couple of lads worked and they were supposed to be looking after their so called Works and they’d say, ‘Go on. We’ve got a shelter.’ But nothing bad happened believe you me. We used to just go. We used to have a laugh and a joke but in those days there was nothing like that with sex or anything. And then we used to say, mum would say, ‘Where have you been sheltering?’ I’d say, ‘Well, we went in the shop doorway.’ And as I say we told lies. But we didn’t, we were in this shelter with the lads. But do you blame me? I mean to me I might have only had a couple of days left. I thought I might as well have a bit of fun while life lasts.
RM: Was there no cinemas or anywhere to go for a drink or —
FD: Oh, yes.
RM: Anything like that Freda?
FD: You could have. There were cinemas going but in those days you see they closed at a certain time. There was no evening. Nothing like today.
RM: No evening matinees or anything.
FD: Oh ,yeah. Yeah. But I mean money was tight as well.
RM: Yeah. Yeah.
FD: I mean, I know it was only a couple of pence to go in or fourpence, the old fourpence but if you’ve spends when I was working. When I started work I think my wages was eight shillings or nine shillings a week and my mam, and then my mother gave me my tram fare out of it and my spends was a shilling. Five pence a week. And that I had to, well my mum kept, as you called kept me. She looked after you until you were twenty one and when I was twenty one I gave her just so much for keeping me so the rest was mine. So I used to get about a shilling. Two and six. Twelve and a half pence. And that was my spends for a week. And I had to buy different things with all make up and stuff but she kept me in dresses and clothes.
CH: How old were you when you started work?
FD: Fourteen.
CH: Could you tell me something about that?
FD: About work? Well, I worked for a place called John Noble’s which was one of these clubs. You know, the what do you call them. Like —
RM: Like a catalogue type.
FD: Catalogue. And it was horrendous. I used to, I was just the one who had to go to each department with the orders and it used to be every half hour I was up and down the stairs and the flights of stairs. They wanted one department then I’d come back. They’d say, ‘Here’s another one.’ And I’d go up and down the stairs. It was about eight shillings a week I got. Mum paid for my bus fare err tram fares. A shilling a week. Five pence a week was my spends. So then when I finished there I didn’t like that because it was two tram cars. And I went to work at Abel Heywood’s, and I got I think it was a bit more. I got about ten shillings a week on that and I stayed there for about four or five years. I disobeyed the rules because you weren’t supposed to go on holidays without permission and one girl was going off on holidays with her parents so I thought well if she can go so can I. So I took a week off work and got the sack.
RM: So did the, did the war not affect your job, Freda? Did you have to come home during the day or —
FD: No. No. Oh no. I had to go work.
RM: The trams never stopped or anything like that.
FD: No. But so you —
RM: You could always get to work.
FD: Well, we were so close to Manchester we could walk in to —
RM: You were walking distance.
FD: Yes. But, no and then of course I got the sack from that. And then I got to work with the electrical place. It was quite nice but I didn’t like that. But I worked at Abel Heywood’s for quite a while which I liked. It was newspapers and stuff. I liked that very much and I had nice friends there but as I say there was Hilda. Hilda [Beavis] she, she was a thief and a liar because I left. They gave me, they used to come around, it was an old fashioned firm. They used to come around with your wages in a little tin on a tray and you’d say, ‘That’s mine.’ Freda Palin you see. Take your spends out. Your wages out. Look at it. ‘That’s right.’ Put your tin back again. They didn’t give you a wage packet. And I remember leaving, it was three pounds something in the, in my drawer because I used to be a typist, and I got home. Mum said, ‘Where’s my — ’, ‘Oh, I’ve left it at work.’ So my friend and I were going out. The dance clubs were still open, you know. If the sirens went you had to go.
RM: You met quite a few Forces men though didn’t you at the dances? You told me.
FD: You what, darling?
RM: You met quite a few of the Forces men at the dances you told me.
FD: Oh, I did. Yes. I met Ron. Yes. We used to go to the YWCA. It was, there was the YMCA men only. YWCA ladies only. But when the war was on you could go in either. Both of them. And of course we volunteered to help on the counters to serve tea and that so I met quite a lot of Forces. Ron Crawford, Crawford Biscuits, he was one of the heirs for that. Yes. My dad when we used to go out we had to clean. I had to clean the floor before I went out. We’d take it in turns and my dad said, ‘Don’t forget the corners,’ because we had no fitted carpets in those days. And I said, ‘I’ve got a date at 8 o’clock.’ He said, ‘If he thinks anything of you he’ll wait for you won’t he?’ And of course when I got there the girls would say, ‘Ron’s getting upset,’ they said. And I’d say, ‘My dad made me clean the floor.’ And they says, ‘Oh, he was worried over you.’ I said, anyway he went. I wrote to him for a while and that was it. The one I really loved was, he was called Robert. Oh, he was lovely. Robert [Souter] Swinton. So, I met quite a few men there and I used to wait on the counter and serve. So, in a way I had a happy life.
RM: Is it like they show on the television then Freda? In the films that you see with the Forces people and and you ladies all dancing and having a good time?
FD: Oh yeah.
RM: It was just very much like that.
FD: Yes. Yeah. And I went out with an American as well. Oh, my friend Grace she was a daredevil really. Like me. And two Americans came up to us and they said, ‘Will you come? Would you like to join us? We’re going up for a meal.’ So, we said, ‘No, thank you.’ So they said, ‘We’re harmless. Honestly.’ They said, ‘We booked this café for the Americans.’ He said, ‘We provided the food but we can’t go in unless we have a lady friend with us.’ And it was next to the Odeon Theatre. I can see it now. And we looked and said ok. And they said, ‘You’ll definitely be safe with us.’ So we went in and of course in those days they had ham and everything you could imagine. A piece of ham and tinned fruit. Oh, it was fantastic. We were looking at these cakes and they did because I remember getting to the door and they said such a squadron or something. So, she said, ‘Have you got partners?’ And they said, ‘Yes,’ and we had to show our faces. They said, ‘Well, you can come in.’ So we had, oh it was fantastic. When I got home, when I was telling my mum so I said , ‘And they had peaches.’ She said, ‘Where had they get those from?’ I said, ‘They’re out of a tin. What do you think?’ She said, ‘Don’t be so cheeky.’ Yeah, so I, oh I’ve met all sorts and everybody. To me I had a wonderful time. I wasn’t frightened. I enjoyed. Grace, my friend though she used to go a bit too far and I said, ‘No. No. That’s, that’s too much for me.’ She was too much of a daredevil really but and of course my dad. I don’t know whether I said to you, ‘You go out of this house the same way as you come in. A virgin.’ Oh, I daren’t. I daren’t. But yes. I I think about it my first work as I say John Nobles. I think they’ve gone now though. Two tram cars. Then Abel Heywood’s which I liked very much. And then there was this electrical place. And then I went to [unclear] which I liked that very much. It was one of these big typings, typings out and they had these whacking big machines. But I was there for about nine years. No. It wasn’t to be nine years. No. I was there the longest anyway because I got married from there and then I had Robert. But in those days they wouldn’t take you back after you’d had a baby. It’s not like now they’ll keep your job open for so long you see but I didn’t mind. I had my son. And, and then we lived with my mum and dad for a couple of years. Then we got a rented house. When, I think about it an old man had it, this house and he used to live and eat and sleep in one room and my sister when she was looking at it, she said, ‘Fancy having a black ceiling.’ I said, ‘That’s soot.’ [laughs] The gas man [unclear] out to here when he walked in. We spent about three hundred pound doing it up and she said, ‘You stupid fool.’ I said, ‘Why?’ It’s around the corner room from my mum’s.’ Rented. She said, ‘Yes, but you could have put that down as a deposit for a brand new house.’ Which you could have done in those days because I mean the house I bought in Stockport wasn’t quite two thousand. And I mean, that would have helped us through but I never bothered but, and then had my son there and then we moved to Stockport.
CH: If I could just go back to the war. What were you doing for celebrations on VE day?
FD: Not a lot really. No. Was it Francis had the television? No. No. I didn’t do a lot really. You went in to Manchester but they were all kissing and cuddling. I couldn’t be doing with that. No. No. I didn’t. I can’t remember much about that. It was just a quiet day for me.
RM: It sounds like a daft questions Freda but what happened to all the gas masks? Did you have to hand them all in? All the gas masks.
FD: I think we did. I think we did. Yeah.
RM: You had to hand them all in.
FD: We all had a special box for them.
RM: And the you see it on the television. With all these boxes and everybody had to carry them everywhere.
FD: Oh, they did.
RM: And all this but and such like as these programmes on the telly. The Antiques Roadshow and such like and they all get you know this is a gas mask from so and so but what happened to all the stuff? They couldn’t hand it all in.
FD: Must have done. Must have done because we didn’t have any left. We didn’t have.
RM: And you carried it to work and everywhere.
FD: Oh yeah. You had to carry them to work. Oh yeah. They were in a cardboard box with a piece of string on.
RM: Yeah. I’ve seen them but, yeah.
FD: And then you could buy these lovely covers.
RM: Did you ever have to use yours?
FD: No.
RM: No.
FD: No.
RM: No.
FD: No. Never had to use it [unclear] but there again by the time you got them out of the box and that you could have been gassed.
RM: Yeah. Yeah.
FD: If they’d have dropped the gas bombs.
RM: Yeah.
FD: But I don’t, I can’t remember any, anything where they were dropped. I don’t think they dropped —
RM: No.
FD: Much in England.
RM: Well, they show you sometimes where people have them on. You see it. But I just wondered if you’d ever had to use it.
FD: I don’t think they wanted to kill. It was more the munitions they were going after because of this Broughton Copper Works that were making them and as I say it was nearly all the rivers they were going for. They knew there was factories down by the river. And there was other places as well you see. So we were right near the River Irwell and as I say they could have[pause] and that’s where we, the windows did rattle. I’m not saying that. But why we never got one window broken. Some did. But I don’t know what it was but it was and we used to just sit there. And my dad, one at a time down in the [pause] Edna, how she got through it I don’t know at all because she worked at the Broughton Copper Works as well. You see with Francis with being married because they didn’t take them into the Forces or anything then because I said, of course in a way I was dying to be eighteen to go in the forces. I said, ‘Oh, I’m going in the forces when I’m, when I’m eighteen,’ I said, ‘I’ll go in the Air Force.’ My cousin said, ‘No. You’re not.’ I said, ‘Why not?’ He said, ‘You know if you go in the Forces you’re there just for the officer’s ground sheet.’ I says, ‘No.’ He says, ‘You are,’ he says, ‘You’re there for the officer’s ground sheet, you youngsters.’ That’s what he said. So I never went but then again it was over and done with by the time I was —
RM: My [unclear] never said that.
FD: Oh, well maybe she was [laughs] My friend. She was in the Forces.
RM: She was Scottish. She was in the WAAF wasn’t she?
FD: And she was in the WAAF and she met, that’s where she met Jack. Her husband and of course I said to her once. She said, ‘No.’ But there again there were a lot going in. I don’t know. So, my mum said, ‘She’s not going in. She’s not going in.’ But I wanted to go in actually. I think I’d have enjoyed it better. I don’t know. But then I became very plump. I was thirteen stone at one time wasn’t I? You saw my plump. No, but I’ve lost a lot of weight. But anyway I can’t say it was horrible because I enjoyed it with my friend, you know. As I say, on the Monkey Run we used to have fun.
RM: I suppose your age. I suppose you found it exciting in a way.
FD: Well, I did because my parents were a little bit strict you see. And as I say my dad and mum were strict and to be out on my own and I felt, oh they won’t come out looking for me. Not in this. So, I was obviously a dare devil. And my friend especially, she was, oh and it was during the war they had the tram cars running and we’d been in the YWCA and we’d met, well this one met my friend she said, ‘I’m going to the railway station with him.’ They were, they were based at Heaton Park all the RAF men, and they all had little white flashes on their caps. You knew they were aircrew. So, she said, ‘I’m going. His train’s at ten to eleven.’ She said, ‘Wait on the bridge for me,’ she said, ‘I’ll make sure he’s on that train.’ And our tram car was at 11 o’clock. I’m stood there and this man sidles up to me. ‘How about it, darling?’ So, I said, ‘Clear off.’ And he’s sidling up and he says, ‘Go on, darling. It won’t take long.’ And I didn’t know, as true as I’m sat here I didn’t know what he was meaning. And he says, ‘I’ll pay you more tonight then your boss does in a week.’ And I thought what the hell does he mean? What can I do? I hadn’t the foggiest idea and he kept on and when my friend came you see the tram came. I said, ‘Don’t leave me on my one again,’ I said, he was this [pause] ‘Surely you know what he wanted don’t you?’ I said, ‘No. What did he want?’ And she told me. I went berserk. ‘Don’t leave me again.’ He must have thought I was a prostitute [laughs] I got the shock of my life when I found out what he wanted.
RM: Was he an Air Force man? Was he in —
FD: No. He was just an ordinary civvy.
RM: Oh, he weren’t a Forces man.
FD: You see Grace had gone to see her friend, her boyfriend off at the airport err at the railway station and I’m stood there just queuing up with all the others and he’s sidling up to me and pushing my shoulder. And I was, ‘Leave me alone. Leave me alone.’ I didn’t know. I didn’t know what prostitutes were. And she was a daredevil because there was Lewis’s Arcade and the prostitutes used to wait in there and they all had their certain spot you see and going through the Arcade with Grace she said, ‘Oh aye, she’s got one.’ I said, ‘What?’ She said, ‘Look. A fella has just picked her up. I’m going to follow them.’ I said, ‘You’re not.’ She said, ‘I did. I went and followed them down this back entry,’ she said, ‘It wasn’t very nice.’[laughs] I said, ‘What are you talking about?’ She was very broad. She did things I would never dream of. No. No. And I said, ‘Oh Grace.’ She said, ‘Well,’ she said, ‘It’s their own fault.’ And no one, Lewis’s Arcade as I say was open and we went, Bernard went through there once and there was these prostitutes and he was meeting me at the Palace Theatre and he said, ‘Oh, I’ve just been offered a nice job.’ I said, ‘What?’ he said this prostitute come and with the gloves under his chin, ‘Hello sweetheart. I’ll make you very comfortable for tonight.’ He said, ‘Oh, I’ve got a wife waiting for me. She can do that.’ I said, ‘You cheeky monkey.’
CH: How did you meet your husband?
FD: Sorry?
CH: How did you meet your husband?
FD: Through my brother in law. My eldest sister. Jim. They worked there. Jim and Bernard worked together and my brother in law came home, he said, ‘Bernard’s been asking about you.’ I said, ‘Who’s Bernard?’ He said, ‘ [unclear] So I said, ‘I don’t know Bernard.’ And a couple of times, ‘Bernard’s been asking about you.’ I said, ‘I don’t know Bernard.’ And he said, anyway they had a very old fashioned workplace. It was an optical place and you had to go up these creaking stairs, just like Dickens. And a little window. You had to knock on it and it was slid away. And I had to go and give a message to my brother in law and I knocked on this window and he said, ‘Yes?’ I said, ‘Can I speak to Mr Bateson, please.’ And when he’d gone Jim says, ‘That’s Bernard.’ ‘Oh,’ I said, ‘I didn’t know. I never met him before.’ He said, ‘You have.’ ‘I haven’t actually.’ So they invited me to a church dance. We had a church dance, and he was a very quiet man, wasn’t he?
RM: He really was. Yeah.
FD: Very quiet. He was daft as a brush. He was useless, hopeless and helpless. He couldn’t knock a nail in straight and he couldn’t boil an egg. It’s true. Honestly, he couldn’t as I say, but he was a very good husband. He thought the world of me didn’t he?
RM: Yeah.
FD: He did. He just worshipped me. And I remember when we were living with mum and dad and we went, were going to church it was only around the corner and he said, ‘I don’t feel so —’ [pause] I said, ‘oh, don’t bother coming, sweetie.’ I said, ‘I’ve left you a couple of eggs there.’ When I come home he said, ‘You didn’t tell me how to cook them.’ [laughs] I said, ‘You stupid fella. I said, ‘I cooked them before you came down.’ He was. He was useless but as I say a very good husband. He would never, he would never have a chequebook because he said it’s too easy and it had to be paid with cash every time. He said, ‘If you have a chequebook it’s too easy, Freda.’ So we were never in debt. We always had good food on the table. A roof over our heads. We used to have little holidays, big holidays when Robert left home. So, and then he was, he was eighty four when he died. He had a very bad heart. I remember him at the table when there was just the two of us he says, ‘Ooh, what have you put in that dinner?’ I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘Indigestion.’ I said, ‘My cooking’s not that bad. You’ve had it for how many years?’ And, and then when we were, of course I used to do all the decorating and he was sat on the stairs and he said, ‘Oh. Indigestion.’ And then I was at work [laughs] he never knew how to say words because I was, I used to work in a Post Office and they said, Bernard. And he said, ‘They’re keeping me in, love.’ I said, ‘Why? Where are you? At the police station?’ He said, ‘No. At the hospital.’ he said, ‘I’ve had another.’ He said, ‘I’ve had three heart attacks.’ And he had about twelve altogether. He had a pacemaker and that. He died. It’s twelve years this year.
CH: Did you court for very long when you first got together?
FD: Yes. Well, we, I got, we got engaged when I was twenty one and I got married at twenty three and I had Robert when I was twenty eight. I was married five years before I had Robert. Unfortunately, my son took his own life.
CH: I’m sorry.
FD: But as I say we got through. And I’ve got very good friends. I’m very fortunate with that. I’ve got a lot of friends haven’t I? This is, this is my helper. She’s cheeky. Very very cheeky. Could knock her head off sometimes.
RM: Just look, this lady’s taping you so be careful.
FD: Oh, sorry [laughs] Well, it’s the truth. She wanted the truth. She’s getting it. I mean you’ve turned up for me today haven’t you sweetheart.
RM: Of course I have.
[recording paused]
FD: No. There was none dropped right outside in the church or anything. It was more the vibrations we got because we could hear them rattling. And there was a little bit in the middle of Salford and Manchester which [unclear] used to go up around over the bridge into Manchester. It was the same. You could walk it. So it was nearly all there that got it because they were after this, the Broughton Copper Works. So, as I say we just got the rattling of it and the vibrations. We’d say, ‘God, that was a near one wasn’t it? That was a miss.’ But no. And as I say with being in that shelter they were the safest of the lot. The Anderson shelter, Morrison shelter and then the little shelters outside. It was that, it was to me actually when they say little shelter it was I don’t know why, I can’t understand it because they were only like a little brick shelter. They weren’t dug into the ground. They were just like a little house where a lot of people could go. So you might as well have stayed in your own house. I mean that was at least two floors high. I mean, so unfortunately this flying bomb, whatever it was called dropped on to the shelter itself that wiped them all out. But I know people say you were lucky with the Anderson. Some had put them in themselves and did it themselves they got flooded out with water. We were lucky, the corporation came and did mine. Ours. Because my dad couldn’t do it. So they did it and it was the way it was faced. It was a blessing really. I can see it now but it started to smell musty and we used to put carpets down and oh God that smelled.
RM: It must have been very cold and dark.
FD: Well, when there’s a few of you, Zita there’s, you’re all, when you’re all breathing it’s not too bad.
RM: Not too cold.
FD: But if there’s only two of you.
RM: It would be cold.
FD: You know. But we used to take travelling rugs with us and cushions. We never, we didn’t leave those in the shelter. We took those out with us. But the bit of carpet, we were always changing that. And newspapers used to be in as well. They used to, you’d wrap those. It was amazing how you could keep warm. But my dad bless him he used to go up and say, ‘I’ll go and get a drink.’ ‘Be careful dad. Do be careful.’ You know. ‘Oh dad, don’t go. Don’t go.’ But yes he used to go and make us drinks. And did I tell you when my mum was petrified. She was, bless her. And as I say air raid sirens had gone and I came in and they were all there. I thought, oh my God she’s braving it. And she was chatting away to them all and the little Kelly lamp I was trying to shield. ‘Oh, the sirens would have gone,’ they said, ‘If there was anything,’ because a plane was going over and I’m shielding this little Kelly lamp and I said, ‘What do you mean?’ I said, ‘The sirens went half an hour ago.’ ‘Oh, why didn’t you tell us,’ they said. They were gabbing that much they couldn’t hear them.
RM: Would you have during, during the day or during the night?
FD: Oh, the evenings.
RM: Evening.
FD: It was in the evenings when it started going and that’s what we couldn’t understand about the Blitz because the bombs had dropped before the siren had finished so they must have got through somehow. I don’t know how they did it.
RM: Did you see the planes? Did you ever see them?
FD: Oh no. You could hear them.
RM: You could hear them but you couldn’t actually see them.
FD: Because to us the German planes they had a beat in them [humming] Ours seemed to [humming] ours seemed to be a smoother hum or drum than the Americans err the Germans. They seemed to have a bit of a pause [humming] We’d say, ‘That’s a German.’ The next thing we knew a bomb had gone off. So how they got through, those bombs had come down after they’d gone I don’t know but I know they said they put them on, there was a Doodlebug and these other bugs they put a little parachute on them. Well, little, it must have been a whacking big parachute but they must have been slowed down because when I think, I thought well, how do they do it? Because when you see an airman jump out of a plane they come down, seem to come down a lot faster before the plane can go in. I thought, well I know they come down a bit slower in the end so there must have had special reasons. They must have made a special bomb to come down that bit slower. And the, and the parachutes must have, I know they must have helped them. But I mean as I say the all clear has gone. You think you’re alright. The next thing there’s a big thud. It must have been horrendous. But there again it hits you wouldn’t know anything would you?
RM: Did you lose any friends?
FD: No. No. Not that way. Oh yes. Yes. There was somebody down, down Earl Street but they were away at the time. But none, no. None.
RM: None of your —
FD: Not directly.
RM: Friends.
FD: No. We didn’t see they’d gone during, the only thing is I would say not friends but we just knew them. The locals.
RM: Yeah.
FD: That this bomb had dropped on the outside on the shelter. To me as I say it was just like a brick shelter. Well, you’d be better in your own home. It’s unfortunate unless it was strengthened but there again of course if you’d got a two floor building that top building, the top floor would save you from the other one but this was right on it. It’s just a pity that they were all coming, well they’re, even if they’re inside they would have. Another two or three minutes they’d have been in their own home. But it was just unfortunate. But how I can explain it? I do worry sometimes Zita but I was a happy go lucky. What happened happened to me. I’m one of these now. If it happens it happens. It’s, you know it’s not as though you can control it. What’s got to be has got to be. I’m a fatalist. But as I was saying I was happy go lucky then. And of course when you were a teenager in those day it was all boys, boys, boys. I didn’t mind but my mum used to worry as much, well worry me more and think, oh God, she’s at it again. She couldn’t do anything. She used to say, oh you know, and hush, hush. I’d say, ‘What are you hushing for?’ But yeah, it’s I think I could go through it again in a way but there again I don’t know. Of course these days it would be a lot worse. I mean one bomb would kill the lot of us, wouldn’t it?
CH: You were talking about your mum and you were saying that you never went hungry. What sort of food did your mum prepare considering it was rationed?
FD: Well, that’s it. With being a big family she could get a joint of meat.
RM: But what else did you get during the week. I mean —
FD: Well, we had —
RM: I mean meals during the week.
FD: That’s what I was saying. With dad being this milkman he was lucky. He used to serve this shop. What was it called? Anyway, it’ll come to me. And they used to, ‘Alright, Jimmy,’ and they used to put a bit of extra butter in for him. But there again if you think if you were on your own you’d most likely get a pack of butter it would last you about a fortnight. But if we, there were seven of you got a lot more for a week. You’d get more for a week and my mother used to say, ‘If you have butter you don’t have jam and if you have jam you don’t have butter.’ And my sister used to say, ‘I’ll tell you what mum. Butter that side, jam that side and then put them together.’ [laughs] That’s how we lived. And of course I didn’t like, ‘Oh, she doesn’t like that. Can I have you share.’ ‘Can I have your share.’
RM: So what would you, came home, say if you’d been at school twelve thirteen year old what would, what meal would you come home to in the week?
FD: A proper meal.
RM: What would you have for your breakfast say? Your lunch or tea.
FD: Well, well then we didn’t bother with breakfast. Used to have a piece of toast or bread and jam. Even then. Even now I don’t. But then for dinner my mum would make a little dinner. For tea anyway for us all because as I was saying we were lucky and also I think Mr Parkes liked my dad because he used to wink when he was wrapping something up you see.
RM: What about vegetables? I mean we hear that you couldn’t get vegetables and things.
FD: Oh no. Well, a lot of people used to grow their own.
RM: They did? Even in Manchester?
FD: Yes. Oh, yeah.
RM: Yeah.
FD: They had their own little back. I mean we could have done. My dad started something in the back garden but he never finished it. Oh, an apple tree. But he tried to grow an apple tree and then Edna, bless her she said, ‘It wants pruning.’ He said, ‘It does not.’ And he always, his chest used to always come out and he’d say, ‘I’ve told you girls it does not. Nature takes its own course.’ We’d say, ‘Right, dad.’ And Edna winked at us once. A couple of weeks later she got some crabapples and tied them on. She said, ‘Watch it, girls.’ We were all there. I can see it now. ‘Dad. Dad you’re right. Nature’s taken its own course.’ And he went out and he said and his hand went on his hips, ‘I told you girls nature takes its own course. Now, look at that for instance.’ And we said, ‘Wait for it.’ And we were all ready. And he went up and he said, ‘Oh hallup,’ because oh hallup. They’re crabapples. And they were hung with cotton [laughs] We flew out the back garden. He said, ‘I’ll give it you girls.’ But he took it all in good fun afterwards. He was such a gentle man. He was. But he was very strict as I say. As I say he made me clean the floor before I went out and you had to have your manners. Oh yes. I remember once saying to him at the table, ‘Can you let me have the salt?’ He said, ‘Pardon?’ I said, ‘I want the salt.’ He said, ‘Pardon?’ I said, ‘I want the salt.’ ‘Pardon?’ And he put, he says, ‘I can’t hear you. What are you saying?’ I said, ‘Can I have the salt, please?’ He said, ‘Now, I can hear you.’ And I felt like that. He made us have our manners and you had to say thank you, goodbye, goodnight, God bless and take us up. Oh, and being a terraced house and the open fire, had a little fireplace upstairs in the house in the bedroom. Used to take a shovel full of red hot coal up the stairs. It was a good job it didn’t fall off and it’s winter and we all had a bath and he used to go down with the nit comb ever week. Oh, he used to make sure we were all cleaned. ‘Are you ready?’ And we were stood in line. Winter. A spoonful of hot water, whisky and sugar. A spoonful each. We used to all go upstairs. Kneel at the bottom of the it was a giant bedstead. It was a king size and we all dashed for the middle of this bed because our feet were near the fire. Hands together. Keep your eyes closed. ‘Now then. Are you ready? Our father — ’ And we all had to say the prayers and I always remember saying, ‘Now I lay me down to sleep I pray the Lord my soul to keep. And if I die before I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take.’ And I always remember when I was saying that when it says if I die before I wake does it mean I’m going to die tonight. And he said, ‘Right. Bed.’ And then we all used to have our bed. He was, he was a good father. Strict but very good to us. Very good.
CB: I imagine he’d have to be strict having five girls.
FD: Yes. Yes. Well, actually he there was six girls but the first one was still born. It was, they got married in 1918 and my father had double pneumonia in 1919. And of course in those days neighbours went and helped you and it wasn’t Fredas and Marys and Jeans it was Mrs so and so, Miss Jones, Mrs Middleton you see, all came and helped. And my father was dying of double pneumonia and the doctor was there and he said, ‘I’m afraid he’s died.’ And he said, ‘I’ll go up to the surgery to get the certificate.’ And of course my mother was eight months pregnant and the neighbour’s there and he’d just got to the corner of the street and then the neighbour went around. He said, ‘He’s breathing.’ So he came back and he was breathing and he said, ‘I’ve just been to heaven and it’s absolutely beautiful. Let me go.’ And they said, ‘Well, think about your new baby coming.’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Heaven’s absolutely gorgeous. Don’t be frightened, girls,’ he used to say to us. And then the next day he said, ‘How’s our baby?’ And his father was dying of cancer in the parlour and that was cancer of the bowel. My mum had to see to that. She was four foot eleven and a tea leaf. She was only small. She had my father dying. Well, he died. He always swore he died. And then she was eight months pregnant and the day after he said, ‘How’s our daughter Fanny?’ They said, ‘Oh, the baby’s not born yet.’ So, he said, ‘Yes, it is. She’s got golden curls like you Fanny.’ She had gorgeous hair. ‘It’s got all curls around its head.’ So he said, ‘Oh, she’s beautiful.’ ‘No.’ He says, ‘Yes,’ he said, ‘She’s in my father’s arms.’ And they thought it’s an illusion. The next day she fell from the top of the stairs to the bottom. The baby was born with golden curls around its head. My grandad died and she was buried in my grandad’s arms. That’s what my father saw.
CH: Wow.
FD: And he used to say, ‘Don’t be frightened of dying. It’s wonderful.’ And he used to say that. ‘Don’t be frighted girls. It’s wonderful.’ Yeah. And of course he managed to come around then. Francis was born the year after and then Edna and then Helen. Well, she was christened Nelly actually but she was a bit of a toff. She liked to be called Helen [laughs] That’s true. And then there was me and then there was Margaret. And I lost Margaret last Christmas. But I had a good life in one way. I was the odd sheep. The black sheep of the family. The odd one out. Why I do not know. I’ve told you before haven’t I? And Margaret, Margaret hardly, you know says I can’t understand it. And when my sister died at Christmas I said, ‘I’m still the odd one out.’ She said, ‘How do you make that out?’ I said, ‘They’re all up there laughing at me. I’m the last one.’ But yeah. I don’t know. I’ve enjoyed life. I don’t worry much do I?
The interview has been edited here as the interviewee spoke about personal, post war matters.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Freda Dakin
Creator
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Cathie Hewitt
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-09-18
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ADakinF170918, PDakinF1701
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Pending review
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01:02:48 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Civilian
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Great Britain
England--Manchester
England--Lancashire
Description
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Born in Salford, just outside of Manchester, Freda was a teenager during the Second World War. She recalls her family's culture, school life, meal requirements and how she reacted to the war being declared. She also recounts her experiences of near-misses during bombing, and her understanding of the Anderson shelters. Despite being a family of seven, she believed she had a good diet during the war, because of her father being a milkman and getting the family extra food. She claims that during the war she was not afraid of the bombs, having quite a fatalistic attitude, she also enjoyed the freedom it brought and how it was like an adventure. She claims she could differentiate between American, British and German aircraft through the sounds of their engines, but also believes that the sirens were always sounded after the plane had arrived.
Contributor
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Sam Harper-Coulson
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
bombing
childhood in wartime
evacuation
home front
shelter
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/196/3329/AAn01134-170717.2.mp3
aec7073168ada9cb3517eca4b855dca9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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A Survivor of the bombing of Berlin
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with a survivor of the bombing of Berlin, who wishes to remain anonymous.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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An01134
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the 17th of July 2017 and I’m in Great Horwood in Buckinghamshire [deleted] who normally lives in Berlin and I’m going to talk to her about her experiences as a child in Germany, particularly in Berlin, during the war. So [deleted] what is the earliest thing you remember in your life?
ANON: [laughs] Switch off that. I can’t think.
CB: Ok. So where did you live?
ANON: Where did I live? I lived in Berlin. I was born in Berlin and I’m back there.
CB: You said, in a small flat.
ANON: Yeah. My grandparents lived not far away and we would go there most days and play cards or family games. My father died when I was nine. My mother had to go to work then in order to keep her and me. It was hard. It was hard for her.
CB: How did your father die? Did he have an accident or was he ill?
ANON: It was an accident. Yeah.
CB: Pardon?
[pause]
CB: Right. We’ll stop there for a mo.
ANON: You’ve been telling —
[Recording paused]
CB: You lived in a block of flats. Which floor?
ANON: Fourth.
CB: Ok.
ANON: No lift.
CB: No lift. Right.
ANON: So, everything had, even fuel, had to be carried upstairs.
CB: What did you burn as fuel?
ANON: Pressed coals they called them. Black. Black.
CB: Sort of nuggets.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: I had a happy childhood. We were poor but I was happy. My parents could not afford a bike. I can’t —
CB: So, when you went your grandparents you played cards. What else did you do? Did you have meals there?
ANON: On the opposite side was a big sports place. In winter you could skate on there.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And in the summer we would kick a ball or have one of those —
Other: Skipping rope.
ANON: Skipping ropes. Yeah.
CB: Yes. And was there plenty of food when you were very young?
ANON: Yeah. Yeah. We had. We weren’t hungry. Yeah.
CB: What was your favourite food? Children tend to have favourites.
ANON: Yeah. I can’t remember. My mother would do eintopft.
Other: Thick soups.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Thick soups.
ANON: What?
CB: Thick soup was it?
ANON: Thick soup? Well everything in one pot. Cabbage and meat.
CB: Yes. Yeah.
ANON: And potatoes. You know.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And I was very very blonde and by looks typical German. What’s the name?
CB: Aryan.
ANON: Yeah. But I didn’t do anything. I just looked that way. My blonde hair. And two, two steps below. Oh my English.
CB: Two floors. Yeah.
ANON: My English.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: I’ve been back so long.
CB: That’s alright. Two floors below.
ANON: Yeah. There was a lady and she always called me in and gave me pudding.
Other: Blancmange.
ANON: What?
Other: Blancmange.
ANON: And she would ask my mother could she take me along because she thought I was a gorgeous little girl. I didn’t think so but she did.
CB: Right.
ANON: [unclear]
CB: What about — what about schoolfriends?
ANON: Schoolfriends. Yeah well. I remember one and her hair was jet black and we were the best singers in class. Her and me. And whenever we had biology, which we didn’t like, we persuaded to let us sing the latest song or something. Henie her name was. She was a Jew. We were the best of friends in those days.
CB: So you were born in 1930.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: And the war started in September 1939.
ANON: That’s right.
CB: What do you remember about that, aged nine?
ANON: I don’t remember much. I went to school and in those days they weren’t bombing Berlin.
CB: But did the school explain that the war had started?
ANON: I bet they did. I can’t remember though. I bet they did. Yeah. It was an ordinary school. It wasn’t a gymnasium. It was an ordinary school. You should, you should go there from six to fourteen.
CB: Right.
ANON: Eight years.
CB: Berlin is a big place so which part of Berlin did you live in?
ANON: Right in the middle.
CB: Right in the middle.
ANON: [unclear]
CB: Right. And then when you, the war had started. As time went on then bombing started did it?
ANON: No. Hitler, HItler said collect all the children. Or as many children as you can and they sent them off to Austria. Near Osterreich. Is it?
Other: You said Austria.
ANON: It might have been southern Germany. And I was there nine or ten months. My mother came to see me and when I go back to Berlin, back to, yeah Berlin, they started bombing us. That day or the next day. I can’t remember.
CB: Oh really. Yes.
ANON: They sent us away and nothing happened and then when we got back it did.
CB: Yes. Well the evacuees had the same experience in Britain. Some of them. Yes. So, when you got back to Berlin then what? Did you stay there?
ANON: I went back to Berlin. Yeah. Had to. Nowhere else to go. And I remember it’s said and, they started bombing us. The British and French would come at night and the Americans during the daytime. And they used to say on the radio schwer kampf bringer.
Other: Heavy party.
ANON: Meaning, meaning bombers are coming.
CB: Yes.
ANON: Flying in over Hanover, Braunsweig. That meant we would be bombed in seven minutes from now. And we grabbed everything we could and took it with us in the cellar. Can we listen to it for a minute?
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[recording paused]
CB: Her father died from an accident at work when she was aged nine.
[recording paused]
ANON: Anybody who, who didn’t have running water in Germany. I can’t —
CB: No.
ANON: And we all had electricity.
CB: Yes.
ANON: And we all, we would cook on this. It was made of tiles. This machine. Machine. It’s not a bloody machine.
CB: Cooker.
ANON: It’s an oven.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: It’s an oven.
CB: An oven. Right.
ANON: And put your pots on there and I’m totally out of — its not like me stuttering about like this here but —
CB: No.
ANON: I wasn’t prepared for this.
CB: No. But you see where I live. A village near here. It wasn’t until 1946, after the war, that they had piped water.
ANON: You’re joking.
CB: Or electricity. No.
ANON: What?
CB: No. And the mains drains didn’t come until we joined. We came to the village thirty eight years ago. So, 1979 was when they put the mains drains in so the point that I’m making is in Britain lots of people didn’t have these things and it’s interesting to know what it was like in Germany in the war. How were you getting on? So, you’ve just talked about the cooking. So, it was coal fired cooking.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And heating.
CB: Yeah.
Other: Momma, say things like —
CB: I’ll stop for a mo.
ANON: Sorry, I didn’t realise.
[Recording paused]
ANON: We would share the toilet with our neighbours.
CB: Oh right.
ANON: But it was, it was a proper water toilet with window and water and and God knows what. They had a key. We had a key. No problem. We never met them. We never saw them.
CB: Right.
ANON: On the toilet I mean.
CB: So, this was on the landing.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: A shared toilet.
ANON: Yeah. Where we lived on the fourth floor it was between. It was three and a half.
CB: What about the bath? Where was that?
ANON: Oh, we would bath in our flats.
CB: It was in the flat. Right.
ANON: My mother would bring a big sink runner.
Other: Tin. Tin.
CB: Tin bath.
ANON: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. So the water was heated separately and then poured into the bath.
ANON: And this Kochmachine.
Other: For boiling. Kettle.
ANON: No. She had — oh God how can I explain this? The oven.
CB: Yes. The oven.
ANON: The stove. It was about as big as this. Half a table.
CB: Yes.
ANON: And there were some rings here.
CB: Four foot square.
ANON: And you could hang the cooking pot in. And if you had a cooking bigger pot you could take out the other ring. The next ring. You know what I mean?
CB: Yes.
ANON: There were about four or five rings. And also here we had [pause] sugar.
CB: Did you have a hot plate?
ANON: Yeah. Two.
CB: Two hot plates.
ANON: They were gas and it was near an open fire and it was gas.
CB: Right. And it had an oven. Was the oven powered by the gas or —
ANON: No, the oven was powered by —
CB: The coal.
ANON: By — yeah. Coal.
CB: Right.
ANON: We fetched from the cellar. Up the stairs.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: It was lovely.
CB: And you had electricity.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: But did you have power all the time?
ANON: All the time.
CB: Or did you have power cuts?
ANON: All the time. We had power all the time. Oh, during the war?
CB: Yes.
ANON: Oh, well, I can’t remember but I know that before the war we always, well as far as I remember we always had.
CB: You always had supplies.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: So, in the war when the raids came you had a quarter of an hour or something notice.
ANON: Less.
CB: Less than that. Then you went in to the cellar.
ANON: We went into the cellar.
CB: Everybody was there.
ANON: Yeah. Except two ladies. They weren’t allowed in any more. And my mother asked, ‘Why not?’ And they said, ‘They’re Jews.’
CB: Oh.
ANON: And my mother said, ‘They’re human beings like you and me. They want protection. Let them come down.’ Nein. Nein. Had she been reported she would have been taken away.
CB: Right.
ANON: Anyway, this fellow wasn’t all bad. He let them come down but apart from other people so other people wouldn’t be offended. A load of rubbish.
CB: And how did you know that the danger had passed when you were in there?
ANON: Oh, there would be a siren going.
CB: Right. So, there would have been a siren to begin with. To warn you.
ANON: Yes. Sure. Yeah.
CB: And then —
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Another one to say the all clear.
ANON: And I remember if it happened three times in a night which it did sometimes then we didn’t have to go to school the next morning.
CB: Right.
ANON: Meanwhile they bombed our school and I remember at one time at one time we had sixty two children in one class. I also remember one thing. I told you I went to see my grandma almost every day. All of us. And we were coming back towards our flat and on the other side of the street there was this terrible noise. They were breaking shop windows. And it was a jeweller and he had a big star on his shop window. Jew. The word “Jew” written in it and this night they came and demolished shop, pinched, took all the, well I should imagine SS men. My father saw that and he wanted to go across and help those people and my mother knew if he goes across there he’s going to be dead in two minutes. I’ve never before or since seen a woman fight as hard. My father couldn’t make it across the street. She was too strong for him. I’ve never seen anything like it. She was stronger than him and he was a strong man. It was she was frightened. So, we went home but it was a terrible experience. Switch that off.
CB: So, it said on the window, “Juden.”
ANON: Yeah. “Jude.”
CB: “Jude.” Right.
ANON: They all had to wear, they had to wear it here or here.
CB: Yeah. So, what happened to them?
ANON: No idea. We know that sometimes a car would go by, a van would go by and there was people on it but we thought they were sent to work camps. You know. When they had to work for the Nazis. But we had no — people weren’t, we had no idea. We had no idea. The first time I saw or heard about the concentration camp was when the war was over and the allies were showing us a film. And I said, ‘Yeah. Now we’ve lost the war they can tell us anything.’ It took weeks and month ‘til we could, ‘til we could believe that they killed those people. But nobody believes it today — that we didn’t know. Well we didn’t know. We did not know.
CB: Well the camps weren’t near Berlin were they?
ANON: No. They were out in the wilds somewhere. [unclear] There were several in Germany but I thought they were just sending them to work.
CB: How did you get that impression?
ANON: How did I get—?
CB: How did you get that impression? Was it put on the radio or in the ‘paper? Or —
ANON: No. They sent us, they showed us films.
CB: No. no. I’m talking about in the war you thought they were going to work camps.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: How did you get that idea?
ANON: I didn’t get any idea. I saw those vans going by with people on it.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And I thought they’d taken them to camps. That’s all.
CB: Yeah. Right.
ANON: Today everybody says that. We didn’t know. We did not know.
CB: And the radio was working all the time. What sort of messages were coming out on that that you, as a child, would appreciate?
ANON: I can’t remember that. I can’t remember that.
CB: Did the — did the German radio have children’s programmes that you remember?
ANON: I can’t remember.
CB: Right.
ANON: We would, we would mostly have listened to news to find out where the allies were. We wanted them to get to Berlin before the Russians [pause] but they had an agreement with Stalin. And he said he lost the most men and he wanted the right to take Berlin and so the French and the British waited. Waited and waited and let them come. Oh, it was, that was when I was frightened most.
CB: Were you? Yeah.
ANON: During the war I wasn’t so frightened. When the Russians came that frightened me.
CB: So, the Battle of Berlin was the middle of April 1945 to the 2nd of May.
ANON: They fought for every house. They fought for every house. They fought for every street. Hitler — Hitler destroyed most bridges. Berlin, I found out since, had more bridges than Venice and he destroyed most bridges. And I remember going somewhere and there were this bridge was gone but there was a big pipe like this and people would walk across it. I forced myself. In the middle of it, I couldn’t, I couldn’t go forwards or backwards. They had to come from both sides and guide me because if your feet had fell down it would have gone in to the water you’d have been — because the bridge were [expedien?] destroyed. All the iron pieces were sticking up. You know.
CB: Oh right.
ANON: So if you had fallen you would have been a dead one.
CB: You’d be impaled on it.
ANON: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember I went to work. I left school when I was thirteen and a half and I got a job straightaway in an office.
CB: So that’s 1943.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Yes.
ANON: No. The war was finished.
CB: Ah.
ANON: The war was finished. And that’s when we got hungry. We had nothing to eat. Bloody hell. It was terrible. Hunger is terrible.
CB: How did you get food?
ANON: How did we get food? We got cards, tickets and it says five hundred grams of something and something else. I remember once my mother sending me to the baker and fetch our last bread or whatever it was and I ate it all the way coming home. A whole loaf. And there was nothing left for my mother. Oh I felt — but the hunger was bigger than the — God.
CB: So, who was distributing the food. Was it the Russians? Or was it done —
ANON: Yeah.
CB: By the German authorities.
ANON: It must have been the Russians at first. Some were even so kind they — it didn’t happen very often but some would killed a horse so people could eat. And others were not so nice. You know. But I remember as a child we’d go finding splitter.
Other: Shrapnel.
ANON: Pardon?
Other: Shrapnel.
ANON: Yeah. Shrapnel.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And we could distinguish whether it was from a bomb, from a roof.
CB: A shell.
ANON: Flak.
CB: Anti-aircraft. Yeah.
ANON: Or wherever.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And we did know that you mustn’t touch the greenish ones. That’s phosphor. It burns your skin through the bone you know.
CB: Yes. Yeah.
ANON: We survived. We survived. Kids. We made a game of that somehow.
CB: So, you collected the scrap metal. What did you do with that?
ANON: Exchanged it. Give me two of those and you get one of these.
CB: Yeah. Exchange it for what? Food or for —
ANON: No. We exchanged it for another shrapnel amongst the children.
CB: Yeah. ‘Cause you were getting a collection together.
ANON: Sort of. Yeah. And then when we were so hungry and the war had finished we’d [unclear] On a train outside. It would take us in to Brandenburg. To a farmer. And I’d have our best. Our best silver. Knives and forks. Give to the farmer. We got a few potatoes. Walk back to the station and the police would take the potatoes off us.
CB: The police took the potatoes off you. Right.
ANON: And back we went to the train. Hung out. And you were so tired. You were so tired and you couldn’t let go. You’ d have been dead. Those farmers. The people used to see all they need is carpet for the cow shed. They got everything else. Yeah. The hunger was terrible. And then bit by bit it got better and better. Oh, and in the meanwhile we had the luftbrucke.
Other: What’s the luftbrucke?
ANON: Can you remember when the —
CB: Well there was the Berlin Airlift in 1948.
ANON: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Is that what you mean? Luftflight. Yes.
ANON: Yeah. Can’t remember what I was going to say about it.
CB: Ok. So the Berlin Airlift.
ANON: Why was I mentioning that? Why.
CB: You were talking about food. Is that what you were thinking of?
ANON: Well anyway I saw this article in the paper where they wanted German girls to come to Berlin er to England they could either go as a nurse, in a textile factory or child minding. Child minding was not for me. Nursing was not for me. So, I went in the factory. I’m not telling you — what’s the reason? Oh, I was going to say that the day, the day I left Berlin for England the what’s the name was stopped. It was open for — luftbrucke had finished.
CB: The Berlin Airlift had finished.
ANON: Yeah. Yeah. And I went to England and here, here they’d got, they’re doing this you know like we used to have to buy bread.
Other: Ration card.
ANON: Yeah. Rations. Yes.
CB: Yes. Where did you land in England? You came by ship.
ANON: Yeah. Yes.
Yes. [unclear] Not Preston.
Other: Harwich.
ANON: Not Harwich. No.
CB: It wasn’t Dover.
ANON: No.
CB: Anyway, you came across.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Yes. And then what did you do? You knew where you were going to go did you?
ANON: Well.
CB: In advance?
ANON: It was, it was governmental, you know. So, we got there and they gave us one pound a week. I think it was a week. And I still smoked in those days and I went to buy some cigarettes and came back. No idea about the money. Couldn’t speak English. Not a single word. And somebody was counting my money and said, ‘You’ve been diddled. You’ve been done.’ And I thought right, I’m going to learn this.
CB: Learn English.
ANON: The very first day in English I learned the English money.
CB: Right.
ANON: I thought nobody else is going to. But on the whole the British were — to me they were good.
CB: So where was your first job?
ANON: My first job. I don’t know but I remember the first landlord. We did three turns around the bed and then, yeah. And my —
Other: You were in Derby.
ANON: What?
Other: Were you in Derby? Derby.
ANON: Yeah, I know. I worked in Derby but when this landlord was turning funny we went to the Labour Exchange, my friend and I. She spoke English. And they sort of viewed us a bit funny but then they decided they believed us. He’d been there previously saying he wants us out because we’re so filthy. That’s why they viewed us the way they did, you know. That was in Derby. So I got away from that job and I finished up at Midland Dyers. Midland Dyers, Derby. And I was there for two years earning quite a bit of money because it was a special job.
CB: Dyeing clothes.
ANON: No.
CB: Dyeing.
ANON: No.
CB: Oh.
ANON: Warping. Warping. A new fibre had just come out. It could have been nylon. I can’t remember. And it went through, it was on a reel and it had to go through some — you see the thing was that two threads had to be like this. Side by side.
Yes.
ANON: It was a fine silky thread. If it was like this it was no good. If it was like this it was no good. It had to be side by side. If we could manage that one of those things were worth about two thousand pounds in those days. So, it was a qualified job, you know. What was your question?
CB: No. Where, what — what was the —
ANON: Midland Dyers.
CB: It was dyeing. Midland Dyers. Dyeing fabric.
ANON: No.
CB: Material.
ANON: No.
CB: Right.
ANON: Warping is it? Warping?
Other: I don’t know.
ANON: What do you call it? What do you call it?
CB: But they were, they were producing this thread.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Which was a man-made fibre.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Right.
ANON: We got that.
CB: And then you had to dye the colour into it.
ANON: You put it on to a beam.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: Beam. God. If I’d have known.
CB: But you were putting a colour on it were you?
ANON: No. We weren’t putting a colour on to it. We were putting it on to a beam.
CB: Right.
ANON: On to a beam. It had to be side by side.
CB: Yes. Ok. And when it was on the beam what did they do with it?
ANON: God knows. They took it away then.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And we got another new creel and then through the combs. And then on to the —
CB: On to the reel.
ANON: Hmmn.
CB: Right. How much did they pay you for that?
ANON: I can’t remember but it was well, it was well paid. Very well paid. They were saying only as good as miners in those days, you know.
CB: Oh really. Right. And where did you live then? You changed your accommodation.
ANON: I lived with, I can’t remember what she, what her name was but she was ever such a nice lady and she was frightened to let me out at night. She was ever so frightened to let me out. Oh [deleted] no. You mustn’t go out. No. It’s dark. But anyway I lived with her for — I don’t know how long. I can’t remember after that what happened.
CB: Did you come over with your friend from Germany?
ANON: Yeah.
CB: And then how long did you stay together?
ANON: We became friends on the —
CB: On the ship.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Right.
ANON: Yeah. She went off to see her boyfriend. She met this English soldier in Berlin and she came across to see him and she didn’t know he was married with children. Yeah.
CB: So that didn’t work.
ANON: She didn’t like that. He didn’t like that.
CB: What was the attitude of the British people to you as a German, after the war, in England?
ANON: I would, I would say to them, ‘I’ll let you know I’m German.’ One said, ‘Oh well. I speak to everybody.’ And others would sort of turn away but to me I can’t complain. I couldn’t speak English as I said. It came, you know, by and by. And I ask her to write down my name and address. My address. It was [deleted] Chester Green. And she write that down and she sent me for chicken food. The performance I gave in that shop was A1 [laughs] making noises and flapping the wings and all sorts. They fetched out everything they had in this bloody shop. Live chickens. Dead chickens. Cut up chickens. All sorts. No. That wasn’t right. In the end I got what I wanted. Chicken food. We often laughed about that.
CB: So, did you take classes in English to help you?
ANON: No. No. No, I didn’t. My English used to be pretty good. I’ve been back in Germany now for forty years. No. ’77. That’s twenty three.
CB: Yeah. Forty years.
ANON: Forty years. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: And Sharon. I usually speak fifty fifty and now it’s gone to mostly German. So, she will have lost it.
CB: A bit of practice. You’re ok. So, after the dyers then where did you go?
ANON: Home.
CB: The next job?
ANON: Back to Germany.
CB: Oh, did you? Right.
ANON: I stayed there. The, the not the boss but he was the meistergrade — he would he would be the fellow going around the machines. Oiling them and making sure they were all in order and what have you.
CB: The maintenance man.
ANON: Yeah. And my friend and I, she was a keen cyclist. Bike. Not motorcyclist.
CB: Cyclist. Yeah.
ANON: And my landlady was going to Cornwall on holiday and we said, ‘We’ll come and see you.’ [laughs] ‘You can’t. You can’t.’ I couldn’t even, I’d never even ridden a bike before ‘cause I hadn’t got one. My parents couldn’t afford one. Anyway, we went to buy this bike and she says, ‘Have a go.’ And a bus came towards me and I panicked and the wheel was buckled. The front wheel. So, we had to have that repaired or bought a new one. I don’t know. And we managed to get to Devonshire. My landlady couldn’t believe it. She could not believe it. On the way back we accepted lorries that would take us, you know. But going down we didn’t. We slept on the side of the bloody road.
CB: This was summertime was it?
ANON: Yeah. ‘Cause my landlady went on holiday down there. Yeah.
CB: It was.
ANON: Yeah. When I think about that today. When I went home to Germany I had two suitcases. After these two years went back home. I had two suitcases and one was packed with coffee. Pounds and pounds. And we had to sit on the suitcase to close it, you know. Pounds of coffee. And the other one was just clothing. When we got to the Customs they said, ‘Open your suitcase.’ I said, ‘Oh please don’t make me open my suitcase. Three girls sat on it for me to close it, you know.’ We can’t get. Anyway, I talked them into opening just one. ‘Ok then. Which one should I open?’ Which one has the coffee got? This is the one with the coffee. ‘Open that one.’ He says, ‘And what’s in that one? My clothing?’ I said, ‘That’s the one with the coffee.’ I was telling him the bloody truth and he didn’t believe me and he let me go through. He opened the other one because I pointed to the coffee one. They could have had me. I said the truth all the time but the way I did it they get the — yeah.
CB: Was coffee a banned substance?
ANON: Yeah. We could swap that for other foods you know.
CB: It was worth a lot of money.
ANON: We didn’t sell it. We swapped it for other foods.
CB: Oh I see. Right.
ANON: God knows what. I remember. As I say when I was thirteen I started work. Thirteen and three quarters. My mother sending me to the [unclear] for two slices of bread and a little bit of salt. Two slices of bread all day. Hunger is terrible.
CB: Did the food supply, during the war, did the food supply get worse as time went on?
ANON: I should imagine. I can’t remember. But we were never so hungry as just after the war.
CB: After the war.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: In Britain there was rationing throughout the war and until 1954.
ANON: Yeah. I came in ’53. I tell you.
CB: Right.
ANON: That day — Germany — we upped it all and came to Britain.
CB: Came abroad.
ANON: Yeah
CB: Yeah. I remember my parents had a German girl working for them for a while. In Germany though, in the war there was food rationing was there?
ANON: Yeah. But it was sort of, you could get by. You wouldn’t be awake nights because you were so hungry. They did supply us with food. Yeah.
CB: Now, what happened to the family flat during the war? Were you, was your mother in there with you all the time or did it get damaged?
ANON: Yeah, we went to the cellar, down to the cellar in the siren.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: We went to the cellar and in winter or anytime at all we would put on two jackets and two of everything. Except shoes. We put on everything. Two. Carried it all four and half, five, four and a half stairs in to the cellar. Siren. Up again. Second time. The things people can stick to when —
CB: To what extent was the block of flats damaged in the bombing?
ANON: Full of every, you could see the holes where it had been hit. I lived at number 19 and number 18 was burned down and it came through the — in the, [pause] in the cellar the builders have to leave a wall that’s called the fire wall. And that’s easily to break through. That’s where they came from number 18. They came into our cellar. It was so full. It was so crowded and overloaded. I don’t know where the other people finished up but —
CB: But your mother was there with you throughout the war, was she?
ANON: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Right. So, what was the general attitude of the population to the bombing? Being bombed. What was their reaction?
ANON: We used to say not very nice words but we couldn’t do anything. We couldn’t do anything. We didn’t want the war. We couldn’t stop it. So, you know.
CB: What did the authorities keep telling you about being bombed?
ANON: At first, they swore blind that no bomb would ever touch Berlin. Yeah. He swallowed his words then. Goering.
CB: You mentioned earlier about picking up the debris some of which was flak.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Some of which was bombs.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: What was the reaction to the incendiaries because a large amount of the ordnance dropped was incendiary so —
ANON: What is that?
CB: Fire bombs.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: You said they were the green ones.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: The shrapnel was green.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: So how did the population react to the firebombing?
ANON: Oh. They didn’t do to us like they did, Berlin never stood in — where was it? In Dresden or somewhere.
CB: Dresden. Yeah.
ANON: They created something specially.
CB: A fire.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Fire storms. Yes. And Hamburg.
ANON: We didn’t have that. We just got bombs and ordinary fires. And, God, when I see pictures today of how Berlin looked in ‘45 I still, to this day, drive through Berlin and think how come, how come they could rebuild it so quickly. It looks as if nothing’s ever happened. I can’t understand that. The first thing that happened after the war women would make themselves a little table of something and find a hammer or something and knock all, grab the bricks and knock all the cement off so the brick could be re-used.
CB: That was their job.
ANON: Yeah. Well that’s, that’s what everybody did. There was nobody to give you a job.
CB: To rebuild.
ANON: Yeah. It was better than sitting about.
CB: How tall was your block of flats? How many floors?
ANON: Four.
CB: You were at the top floor.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Right.
ANON: As I said, no lift. Sugar. And then every night, sometimes three times carrying everything you were able to. Down the cellar and up again. Bloody hell.
CB: So, there was huge destruction. Your block of flats survived.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: What was the view around there? Were there other flats still standing or were they demolished?
ANON: No. They were just, just [pause] no — only number 18 was totally demolished. The others, the others I don’t know. They just had big holes from, from shrapnel, you know. And the Americans — the cheeky devils. They would fly in ever so low during the day and take pictures because they did area bombing, you know. One day they do it from twelve to fifteen or the next day they do it from sixteen to twenty one. They were making sure everybody gets some.
CB: Which areas had the greatest destruction in Berlin?
ANON: I wouldn’t know. I wouldn’t know. I only know when I looked around there was nothing. There was nothing. How? I don’t know where people went. It was terrible.
CB: You talked about, in the beginning of the war, children being evacuated. Were they evacuated later or did they just leave families with their children in Berlin?
ANON: Were they what?
CB: Did they evacuate children again later?
ANON: No.
CB: They didn’t.
ANON: There was nothing. No. No. Only this once but I was gone nine months. My mother came to see me.
CB: Yes.
ANON: And when I came back they started bombing Berlin so, you know, they were going to get me somehow.
CB: Yeah. So, you were back after the war. You returned to Berlin. How did you come to meet your husband?
ANON: I met him about six weeks before I went home.
CB: In England.
ANON: In England.
CB: Oh right.
ANON: I didn’t like him all that much.
CB: Why not?
ANON: I didn’t like him all that much at all. As a friend, ok but not as a boyfriend and then I went back to Berlin. God knows when it happened. I don’t know. I was engaged to an American and I said to him, ‘I’ll just go England and say goodbye. It will be ages before I get back to Europe.’ And I saw him again at a dance and six days later we were married. Six or seven days.
CB: So, he had a pretty convincing patter to give to you did he?
ANON: There was nothing. We just saw each other and that was it.
CB: Oh.
ANON: He was engaged. I was engaged. And we met at this dance and that was it.
CB: Where was that?
ANON: Derby. There was live music Rita Rosa and Ted Heath.
CB: Oh.
ANON: Derby, Paris. I can’t remember the name.
CB: Was he in the army? Or was —
ANON: No.
CB: What did he do?
ANON: He went down the mine that year because my father in law had an ice cream business and he needed one at home so he said, ‘Go down the mine and then you can stay at home,’ which he did.
CB: So, what did he do in the mine?
ANON: Coal mining. He didn’t, he didn’t [pause] God my English. Let me explain [unclear]
Other: Dynamite.
ANON: What?
Other: He used dynamite.
CB: He used to do the blasting.
ANON: No. He didn’t. No. He didn’t do the blasting.
CB: But he put in the dynamite did he?
ANON: God knows. I don’t know. I don’t know but I do know he didn’t do blasting.
CB: Right. So how long did he work there when you were married?
ANON: I can’t remember. He should have had to work the two years but he stayed longer because the pay was so good but he did, he did come out and he took over — he had the ice cream in the summer. In the winter they were delivering coal. The miners are entitled to, you know. So, you see there’s nothing, nothing thrilling to tell you.
CB: But then you had your children.
ANON: Yeah. ’55, ’58,’ 65.
CB: By which time your husband was running the ice cream business was he?
ANON: As well as the coal job in the winter. Yeah.
CB: He was still working in the coal mine.
ANON: Yeah.
CB: Right.
ANON: No. Just delivering.
CB: Just delivering. Right.
ANON: Just delivering it to miners.
CB: Right.
ANON: And one day, God knows, he had flu or something and he said, ‘Go and take Mr Jenkins’ and, ‘What do you mean, am I taking him?’ He wanted me to drive the lorry with the coal on. I only did about five customers. Then I went home shaking.
CB: No power steering.
ANON: Power steering in those days. You must be joking. No power steering and a heavy lorry. God. When we got back we got a real rollicking for only doing five customers. Yes. Mr Jenkins said I couldn’t work any faster.
CB: So, when you got back when did you go back to Germany?
ANON: After the two years. I went over in ‘49. I went back in ‘51.
CB: Yes.
ANON: Stayed in Germany for two and a half years.
CB: Yes.
ANON: Never heard from my husband. Never saw him. I wrote him twice. And then his sister wrote and said he’s engaged. And I thought yeah. Ok. So why not? And then I still came to England in ’53 and as I say within six days, special licence, we were married.
CB: Yeah. What was the reaction of German people in Germany to your marrying an Englishman?
ANON: No idea. I was in England.
CB: The family. The extended family.
ANON: The family. I have no idea. I know my mother. My mother. She was all by herself. No sister, no brother, no husband. She had a sister but God knows what they said. I don’t know. I know my mother was heartbroken for a while.
CB: Why was she heartbroken?
ANON: My mother? Because I wasn’t coming back.
CB: Right.
ANON: And she was all by herself.
CB: Right. We’ll stop there for a mo.
[Recording paused]
CB: When the war ended [deleted] you had only Russians immediately but then you were in the British zone were you? In the British Zone?
ANON: It wasn’t then in the British zone.
CB: No. Right. So, what was the reaction to the Russians and how did they treat you?
ANON: Everybody was scared and wished the British and the French would come. The Americans. But as I say they had this agreement with Stalin with Churchill.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: To let the Russians in first.
CB: Well it was the result of the Yalta conference that they knew that Berlin was going to be in the eastern zone.
ANON: Have you ever [pause], have you got schnipsel papier.
CB: Yeah.
ANON: [unclear]
CB: A piece of paper yeah.
ANON: I can’t draw.
CB: Oh right.
ANON: Imagine. Imagine this is Germany.
CB: Yes.
ANON: Berlin is here.
CB: Yes.
ANON: That is the east.
CB: Yes.
ANON: And these three are French.
CB: In the west.
ANON: The west. Yeah.
CB: The British, French and American.
ANON: English and — yeah.
CB: American.
ANON: Isn’t that brilliant.
CB: Yes.
ANON: And I, and I live in the British part.
CB: Right. Ok.
ANON: The British part is in the middle. The top is French. Then English and Americans are the south west. [unclear].
CB: Right.
ANON: So, what was the public reaction—
CB: Tell him about the what?
CB: The fear.
Other: The fear.
ANON: [unclear]
CB: Your fear of the Russians.
ANON: I know. I don’t like, I don’t like doing that. I think, it think it’s dangerous talk. [Unclear]
Other: She doesn’t want to.
CB: That’s Ok. But in the general population was concerned about the Russians.
ANON: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Because of what they did. Yeah. I mean they flattened Berlin in taking it didn’t they?
ANON: That’s not the worst. The worst thing was that the women were all scared to death.
CB: So how did you, how did your mother defend you against —
ANON: My mother said, ‘Stop shaking.’ She said, ‘I will go for you if they come and fetch you.’ And the Polish woman, she nearly had the [unclear], ‘They don’t take a forty year old if they can have a fifteen year old. Or a thirteen.’ So the, this Polish woman had a big korbsessel.
Other: Whicker chair.
ANON: Yeah. And she said, ‘Now crouch down under this and she put a blanket over me and she sort of sat on it. She didn’t sit but it looked as if she did so the Russians didn’t see me.
CB: Right.
ANON: But as I say another one would kill a horse and, you know, give it to the people so —
Ok. Thank you.
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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AAn01134-170717
Title
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Interview with a survivor of the bombing of Berlin
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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00:55:36 audio recording
Conforms To
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Pending review
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
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2017-07-17
Description
An account of the resource
She tells of her life in Berlin before, during and after the war. She lived with her mother in a block of flats close to the home of her grandparents. Her father died when she was nine years old. During the war she collected shrapnel as souvenirs to swap with her school friends. During the allied bombing she sheltered in the cellar of her block. After the war she suffered the pangs of hunger, and she describes taking silverware to farmers in exchange for a few potatoes. As part of a government scheme, she travelled to the UK to work at a textile factory. She then returned to Germany. She came back to the UK for what she thought would be a final visit but she met and married her husband.
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Germany--Berlin
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1943
1945
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
anti-Semitism
bombing
childhood in wartime
civil defence
fear
home front
incendiary device
round-up
shelter