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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/302/3459/PLambAM1702.2.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/302/3459/AMcPhersonLambA150726.1.mp3
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lamb, Alexander
Alexander McPherson Lamb
Alexander M Lamb
Alexander Lamb
A M Lamb
A Lamb
Description
An account of the resource
11 items. An oral history interview with Alexander McPherson Lamb (b. 1925, 1827673 Royal Air Force), his decorations, album and photographs. He flew operations as an air gunner with 15 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alexander Lamb and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-25
2017-08-16
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lamb
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BB: Good morning Alistair, and thank you for letting me come into your home. I am representing the International Bomber Command Centre at Lincoln and we’re doing an oral history of Bomber Command veterans. So this interview is being held with Mr Alexander McPherson Lamb in his home in Stirling. Would you like to tell us your story? Thank you.
AML: Well, I joined the RAF in — I think it was March. I’m not quite sure now unclear] I think it was March. And I volunteered for aircrew. I was a junior clerk in the civil service. War Department. And I joined the RAF in, I think it was March. March ’44 I think it would be. I can’t remember.
[background chat]
BB: Sorry Alistair.
AML: That’s alright. You start again? Or is it alright?
BB: No. Just carry on.
AML: You’ve stopped it.
BB: Yeah. Just carry on. Yeah.
AML: And I think it was March ’44. And I volunteered as an air gunner. Had my attestation and medical and whatnot initially in Edinburgh prior to that. And I think I actually joined in March ’44. Yeah. March ’44 was when I actually joined. Went down to London to Aircrew Reception Centre in London where we were sort of needles stuck in us and examined and —
BB: Was that the one in St John’s Wood?
AML: Pardon?
BB: St John’s Wood.
AML: St John’s Wood. Yes. St John’s Wood. Then we went from there overnight by train to Bridgnorth.
BB: In Wales.
AML: I can’t remember the number of the OTU. Of the thing it was. Bridgnorth anyway. I can’t remember where, what it was actually called. It would be RAF. I can’t remember what Bridgnorth was. I’ve got it somewhere. Maybe get it in my logbook.
BB: Ok. We’ll look at that later.
AML: And then did our initial training there. March, gunnery, various things. Air force law. The usual jazz that you get when you join up first of all. And after that we were then [pause] I can’t remember how long we were there. I’d need to look up my logbook again. We then went to gunnery school which was at Stormy Down in Wales.
BB: Right.
AML: Number 7.
BB: That’s right. Number 7 Air Gunner’s School.
AML: At Stormy Down’s in Wales. Near, near Porthcawl. A lovely — it was a good station and I enjoyed it very much. We flew in Ansons there.
BB: Yeah.
AML: We did our gunnery in Ansons there. We passed out. It would be in 28th I think. 28th of July or June, I’m not quite sure, ’44. And then came home on leave. From that we went back to Market Harborough. OTU. 14 OTU Market Harborough.
BB: Yeah.
AML: Where we spent the first three weeks more or less meeting people. Knowing about, meeting guys. All the crews that were there. And you were allowed a month, a fortnight or three weeks to what was called crew up. There was no compunction. You picked your own crew over a period of time and that. Then you went in a huge hangar and I don’t know who it would be, the CO or somebody said, ‘Who are the people who have got full crews?’ And they all went to one side. The last of us were left. If you didn’t have a full crew you were then left and there would be other spare people left as well.
BB: Right.
AML: And they would then say, ‘Well here’s a spare pilot.’ ‘Here’s a spare navigator.’ ‘Here’s a spare gunner.’ Would you all like to, ‘Would you like to crew up?’ And basically that’s how you crewed up.
BB: Which was all very sensible really because you got to know people that you could trust and you liked and you got on well with.
AML: That’s right. That’s right.
BB: So there was method in their madness.
AML: Oh there was. The usual thing as you do in all these things when you join up first. There’s always somebody who knows something about everything. And they said, ‘Oh look for a warrant officer pilot because he’ll have a lot of flying experience. Don’t look for a young flying officer who’s got none.’ Or a young sergeant pilot. A general thing.
BB: Very sensible.
AML: It didn’t matter. You just picked who you found. You took a like to somebody even before you know their qualifications. If you liked them you liked them you know.
BB: Yes.
AML: We picked a warrant officer pilot and when we went in to be crewed up we were told well he’s been posted somewhere else. We were then left standing until this lone sergeant pilot arrived. We didn’t know he was French and they said, ‘Well here’s a pilot needing somebody. What about a crew?’ And I must have been looked at and he said, ‘What would you like to ask?’ I said, ‘Well we’ll take up then.’ So that’s how we got crewed up.
BB: So you had this French, a French airman.
AML: Very very much French actually.
BB: French pilot.
AML: Yeah.
BB: Who was kind of left.
AML: That’s right.
BB: Was he in the French Air Force or was he in the RAF?
AML: He was in the French Air Force initially I think.
BB: Right.
AML: He came from — maybe this is more or less rubbish to you.
BB: No. No. Carry on.
AML: He came from France when the Germans invaded. I forget where it was. It was down in the south of France. Not as far as they were but it was quite far down. Near Bordeaux I think he was.
BB: Right. Southern France. In Vichy France.
AML: Aye. And he escaped and came back to this country and because he had very little English at that time he was put in a reserved occupation building aircraft. He was punching wing ribs out for an Auster aircraft in Leicester.
BB: Oh I see. Right.
AML: That’s where he was sent to. And he got so fed up with it he said the only way you could get out of a reserved occupation during the war was if you were volunteered for submarines or aircrew.
BB: I see. Right. They were so short on both.
AML: So he volunteered for aircrew and did his training, I understand with the French Air Force and the French training him. Probably the RAF but under the auspices of the French.
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
AML: And then in the usual way the wheels worked somebody said, ‘What’s this guy with a Scottish, with an English name doing in the French Air Force?’ Jack was then humped out of one into the other and we got him at OTU. His language was quite a problem for a while but we got to know about it. We then went on to Wellingtons at OTU at Market Harborough. And, I don’t know, I can’t remember the dates at Market Harborough. I need to look up my logbook.
BB: That’s ok.
AML: But you can fill them in after. I think we went to Market Harborough in ’44 some time. I can’t remember when. August ’44. I need to look at my logbook. You’ll see it in the logbook.
BB: Yes.
AML: ’44. Market Harborough I think. And we left there and when we did our stint we did a hundred and ten, about a hundred and ten hours on Wellingtons at Market Harborough. The reason we did so many is another story I wouldn’t bore you with. Anyway, and we then went home on leave and came back as a crew to — what did I say it was? Heavy conversion. 1654 Heavy Conversion Unit.
BB: 1654 Heavy Conversion Unit at Wigsley.
AML: Wigsley. Wiglsey.
BB: Yes.
AML: Flying Stirlings.
BB: Yes. How did you find the Stirling?
AML: I liked the Stirling very much indeed. I was very taken with the Stirling. Very very strong aircraft. Very robust aircraft. Plenty of room in it. Because you know how tremendous.
BB: Yes.
AML: I got extra flying time. We used to carry on till the [unclear] you see.
BB: It was a long way off the ground. I remember. And I see you have a model here too which shows the size of it.
AML: That’s right.
BB: Compared to the same scale.
AML: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: That you have a Wellington or a Lancaster.
AML: Aye. It was wingspan. You know the story. The wingspans were reduced to get it in to the hangar.
BB: Yes. That’s right.
AML: Which didn’t do it any good at all.
BB: No. Not good at all. No.
AML: It was literally a Sunderland wing.
BB: Yeah. Oh I see.
AML: You see.
BB: Made by Short’s of course.
AML: But ninety nine feet which made it very manoeuvrable but it couldn’t get much higher than —
BB: Couldn’t get the height.
AML: Sixteen thousand and there.
BB: Which made it very vulnerable to flak and fighters.
AML: Very vulnerable to flak. Yeah. Yeah. Same types of turret I had in the Lanc of course. Exactly the same. Anyway —
BB: Yes. Frazer and Nash turret.
AML: Went from there to the same OTU, same conversion. We went to, joined Lancs at that unit. We were then, we went over to Lancs at the same place. 14 OTU.
BB: 1654 Heavy Conversion Unit.
AML: Conversion Unit.
BB: Yeah.
AML: We went on to —
BB: 15 Squadron.
AML: No. Not at that time.
BB: Ok.
AML: We were then posted when we finished that course. I forget how long. I don’t remember how long. It wasn’t terribly long. We then went to 15 Squadron at Mildenhall in March ’45.
BB: That’s right.
AML: More or less a year after we joined. March. I joined a year ’45. And the first thing we did when we got there we were sent to Feltwell to do a GH bombing course.
BB: Gosh that must have been interesting.
AML: It was only about a fortnight’s course I think. A beautiful little airfield. I think it was Harvards they had there. It was a fighter. I think. I can’t remember.
BB: Yeah.
AML: But it was a very nice peacetime ‘drome. A lovely place. I liked Feltwell for the short time we were there.
BB: So that was fighter affiliation.
AML: No. We simply did GH bombing training.
BB: Just bombing training. Ok.
AML: For the navigator’s really.
BB: Yeah.
AML: The navigators and bomb aimers. This type of GH bombing. I can’t remember.
BB: Yes. That would meant that you would have two yellow stripes on your tail when you qualified to be a bombing leader.
AML: Aye. GH leader. Some of —
BB: Yeah.
AML: Some of the aircraft had yellow striped on the tail.
BB: Yeah. That’s right.
AML: Some hadn’t. It was a means of identification.
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: Then we came back from there just more or less overnight to RAF Mildenhall itself. Where we were originally. And we were there at RAF Mildenhall until we left in — when would it be? When did we leave Mildenhall?
BB: Mildenhall.
AML: ’46 I think we left Mildenhall.
BB: 20th of August ’46 I think you mentioned before.
AML: Yeah. They moved. They moved to Wyton. The squadron moved to Wyton.
BB: Did you go with them to Wyton?
AML: We went to Wyton. Yeah.
BB: Yeah. Ok.
AML: And the crew, the whole crew went to it. That was the last trip my skipper did. He was then posted as an instructor.
BB: Right. He was screened.
AML: Aye.
BB: And went off to an OTU.
AML: Aye and of course by that time everybody was getting broken up because ’46 the demobbing was taking its toll and people were coming and going. And new people were coming in and sort of general get togethers what was disappearing quickly because you were losing people left, right and middle. And as I say I was fortunate. I stayed flying until I was demobbed which was quite lucky for me.
BB: Yes. Yes. That’s right.
AML: Because 15 was a peacetime squadron. So that’s why I think.
BB: Yes. So with that pretty well organised.
AML: Pre-war squadron.
BB: Yes.
AML: That’s why we were probably kept as such. 44 and 15 and some of the others, 7 were all peacetime squadrons.
BB: All the wartime squadrons were disbanded.
AML: That’s right. Yeah. Were all disbanded.
BB: The peacetime squadrons were re-kept.
AML: Yeah.
BB: And some of the wartime ones were re-kept.
AML: Yeah well —
BB: Like 617 for example.
AML: We had Tuddenham. We talked about Tuddenham.
BB: Tuddenham. Yes.
AML: Just across the road from us.
BB: Yeah. Yes.
AML: A case of wheels up, wheels down, landing.
BB: Yes.
AML: Then we stayed there until we were posted. As I say we were posted to Wyton. Wyton, a beautiful station. A peacetime.
BB: Yes. I’ve been to Wyton. Yes.
AML: A very modern peacetime station.
BB: Yes.
AML: A lovely station. And I was there until I was demobbed.
BB: Yes.
AML: We did a lot of stuff after the war. Immediately after the war, before the war actually ended in Japan. We brought liberated prisoners of war back. We did supply dropping to the Dutch.
BB: Yes.
AML: I got a medal from the Dutch government for that. We did three trips of supply dropping to the Dutch and I think we did three trips for bringing prisoners of war back but I think we came in to —
BB: Yeah.
AML: Westcott.
BB: Westcott. Yes.
AML: I think so.
BB: In Bucks.
AML: Oh my memory’s not as good as it used to be I’m afraid.
BB: So — that’s ok. So how many actual operations did you do? You came in late in the war.
AML: I came in very late. I didn’t join —
BB: Did you do six or five or —?
AML: I did, I did, the crew did six and I did five.
BB: Ok.
AML: I took food poisoning.
BB: Oh right. So you did your five ops. And —
AML: Four daylights and one. Four daylights and one night.
BB: Ok.
AML: Kiel was a night op. And I understand that the war was still on this time — these supply drops trips and prisoner of war would have been turn ups. I don’t think they were actually given as that.
BB: No.
AML: And somebody said to us, ‘Oh you could, in a push, count them as ops,’ but I never ever did that.
BB: No. No.
AML: I didn’t do. But that was —
BB: No.
AML: That was on.
BB: But in terms of bombing German or French targets. Yes. Yes.
AML: Actual bombing Germany itself.
BB: Yes. As target. Yes. Yes.
AML: I did four daylights.
BB: Four daylights.
AML: Munster, Bocholt, Heligoland, Kiel and Bremen.
BB: And Bremen. And Bremen was your last one.
AML: Last one we did.
BB: Yeah. And did you, did you drop — did you have a chance to drop those big bombs?
AML: No. Not at that time.
BB: The Tallboys. No.
AML: 15 Squadron wasn’t doing that.
BB: No. No.
AML: It was a specialised.
BB: Yes. 617. Yeah. Yeah.
AML: 617.
BB: Yes.
AML: Was a specialised squadron for that.
BB: So you dropped the normal, you had a normal cookie and the normal other ones. Yeah.
AML: That’s right. A normal cookie.
BB: Normal load. Yeah.
AML: Or an eight thousand pounder double cookie sometimes.
BB: Right.
AML: And I’ve got to know, I think about a fourteen thousand pounds was about the standard bomb load we had.
BB: Bomb load. Right.
AML: Sixteen hundred gallons of gas. Fuel.
BB: Yeah.
AML: It’s in my logbook. You’ll see it there. Yes. Then 15 Squadron became a sort of — well we were doing a lot of training. Long range navigation exercises. Things like that. Then we started to convert to get the Lancaster ones, the ones they were using for the ten ton bomb.
BB: Yes.
AML: I forget why it was. Like B1 specials I think they were called.
BB: B1 specials. They took the nose turret off and —
AML: The top turret off.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And bomb doors off.
BB: And the bomb doors off to take the Tallboys.
AML: That’s right.
BB: Yes.
AML: We dropped those. We called it Operation Farge I think it was called. We did the dropping of these bombs on the U-boat pens at Farge.
BB: Yeah. Ok.
AML: Because they didn’t know when the war ended exactly what damage was being done with the Halifax that did this. Then we did — oh what was the operation? There was a point but I can’t remember. Where we bombed [pause] ships in the English Channel to see what would happen to bombs.
BB: Oh to see what the damage —
AML: Yeah.
BB: Yeah. Would be —
AML: We flew then at a certain height and we dropped a stick of bombs. I think they were five hundred pounders. And then if and when we went to hit a boat [laughs] It was HMS Firefly. I think it was. It was an ex-mine sweeper. They then stopped the bombing and the navy went aboard the board and put a real bomb in where our bomb had struck or where somebody’s bomb had struck.
BB: Yes.
AML: And then detonated that bomb from a launch so they could then say that an aircraft at eighteen thousand feet dropped a five hundred pound bomb going into number two engine room would do X amount of damage.
BB: X amount of damage. Yes.
AML: This is what we did. We did some research on that.
BB: It was to see what the actual damage was.
AML: That’s right. That’s right.
BB: To a vessel being hit by a bomb of that kind.
AML: That’s right. That was to give them —
BB: So they could either improve the munition.
AML: Yeah.
BB: Or just to see the damage.
AML: It was to give them a general – they didn’t physically know, you know, but now they could actually do it. So we did quite a bit of that.
BB: Right.
AML: And then we got, we were lucky enough to get a trip to Italy.
BB: You went to Italy to bring back POWs.
AML: No. To bring back guys on leave as well.
BB: Oh ok. Right.
AML: I think it was a reward. The squadron got a reward. The squadrons got a reward.
BB: A chance to go and get some oranges and stuff like that.
AML: That’s right.
BB: From Italy. Yes.
AML: Yeah.
BB: And some wine no doubt.
AML: Yeah.
BB: Excellent.
AML: I think we landed at Blackbushe.
BB: Blackbushe right.
AML: Coming back. Aye.
BB: And did your crew all survive the war?
AML: Yes. Yes.
BB: Do you keep in touch with them at all?
No. They’re all away now. My skipper died. I’ve been to see my skipper. My navigator and I went to see my skipper in Australia. I went on my own once and he came with me the next time.
BB: Right.
AML: And he’d been over here. Funnily enough I’ve just had a phone call from Australia saying they’re coming across for my eightieth — for my ninetieth birthday.
BB: Oh that’s nice. That’s good. That’s very nice. Now just to remind me. When were born again. What’s your date of birth?
AML: 1925.
BB: Pardon?
AML: 5.9 ’25.
BB: 5.9 ’25. And that was in Stirling.
AML: Stirling.
BB: Yeah.
AML: In this house.
BB: In this house. Right. Ok.
AML: I’ve lived here ever since.
BB: So you’ve lived in here.
AML: Ever since.
BB: Ever since.
AML: No desire to move.
BB: No. And you were with the civil service before you —
AML: Yeah.
BB: Before you went and when you came back from the war that’s what you did.
AML: I was —what do you call that? I worked in the War Department as a boy messenger initially.
BB: Ok.
AML: For a few months until I then got a junior clerks job. And when I left I was a clerk. What they called temporary clerks because there was no establishment at that time, I understand. During the war.
BB: And that was in —
AML: Stirling.
BB: In Stirling.
AML: [unclear] in Stirling.
BB: Oh in the military side of it there.
AML: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: Ok. Ok. And so they didn’t [pause] was that a reserved occupation in that sense?
AML: Probably it might have been. I don’t think so. Anyway —
BB: Because you volunteered for air crew.
AML: Aye.
BB: Yeah.
AML: But what happened then I understand. I don’t know maybe you shouldn’t quote this but I think, I think the people who had gone out had to get their jobs back. You know, after the war.
BB: Yes. They had to be kept for them yeah.
AML: And I went back in. And realise there would be no things like that. I then transferred to what were called the Department of Health and Social Security I think we called it.
BB: Ok.
AML: National Insurance, I think. In Stirling. I was still a temporary clerk.
BB: After, after the war.
AML: Yeah. After the war.
BB: Ok.
AML: And I was there when I had to sit the civil service exam.
BB: Right.
AML: If I wanted to become established. That was the only way you could keep it.
BB: Yeah.
AML: So I sat the civil service exam, passed it and was posted on a permanent, as a permanent civil servant to Elgin.
BB: Elgin. Right.
AML: Elgin. And I was in Elgin for seven — nine months. Then I got back to Stirling. Well I got back to Alloa.
BB: Yes.
AML: And then I got from Alloa to Stirling.
BB: Right.
AML: I was in Stirling until I was demobbed.
BB: Right.
AML: And became a HEO, acting HEO and I was that until I came out. Where did I come out? ’48. Would it have been 1984 ’85 ’86? I can’t remember.
BB: That’s when you retired.
AML: When I was sixty.
BB: Sixty.
AML: In my grade, at that time, you had to go. At your age.
BB: Right. You couldn’t, you couldn’t negotiate.
AML: You couldn’t stay on. Now you can go on forever I understand.
BB: Right. Ok. And you went to school in Stirling.
AML: Went to school.
BB: What? The High school?
AML: Riverside.
BB: Riverside. And that’s where you, did you get your school certificate there?
AML: Yeah. Well I got — I left at fourteen.
BB: Yeah.
AML: As most people did in those days. .
BB: Yeah.
AML: I think I got what they called was it a day school or—? I can’t remember actually.
BB: Yeah. But you had, but you had enough to qualify for aircrew.
AML: Well, I don’t think it really mattered what scholastic abilities you had if you passed.
BB: Passed their test.
AML: The sort of general assessment test.
BB: Yeah. Yeah. Well there were –
AML: Yeah — there were quite a few lads, that’s the wrong word, who were plumbers or joiners who had, you know.
BB: Done apprenticeships the same.
AML: That’s right.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And they went too. Yeah.
BB: Right. Ok. And your mother. Your parents lived in this house.
AML: Yeah.
BB: And obviously that was a great worry to your mother. Going off flying bombers.
AML: Yeah. Yeah. My father died.
BB: Rear gunners position in the bomber at that. The most dangerous position in the aircraft.
AML: My father died. I think in ’40. 1940.
BB: Oh right. Ok.
AML: He was a regular serving soldier prior to that.
BB: What? In the army.
AML: Yeah.
BB: Ok.
AML: A twenty eight year man I think he was.
BB: Did he die in the war? Or did he —?
AML: No. No. He was out of the war. He came out the forces in 1924.
BB: Oh. Ok. So must have been a boy soldier and worked his way up and all that.
AML: Yeah. He joined the Seaforth Highlanders when he was eighteen.
BB: Ok.
AML: I think.
BB: Ok. And these are his medals on the wall.
AML: That’s right. Then after, after the Sudan campaign. Kitchener’s Sudan campaign.
BB: Yeah.
AML: He came back to Egypt.
BB: Right.
AML: In fact I’ve got a letter there written when he was in Egypt. He lost a sister during the terrible flu epidemic. I remember that was in the letter.
BB: I see he’s got the Egyptian Medal.
AML: That’s right.
BB: And the First World War.
AML: Yeah.
BB: War and Victory Medal and looks like —
AML: He’s got a Long Service Meritorious Medal.
BB: Long Service Medals and Meritorious Medal. Yes.
AML: He also has the Russian Order of Saint Stanislaus as well.
BB: Oh right. Ok. Interesting. So he served in the first, he had been a combat soldier.
AML: A regular serving soldier.
BB: In those campaigns.
AML: He was —
BB: How much did his military service influence you in, you know in going into the RAF?
AML: No. I don’t think so. Terribly much.
BB: No. No.
AML: I was never really army orientated.
BB: No. I didn’t mean the army. Just the whole military culture was in the family.
AML: Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.
BB: Yeah. That’s good.
AML: My cousin was killed at Dunkirk.
BB: Was he? Yes. What was he in?
AML: He was in the Royal Artillery.
BB: Royal Artillery. So he’s buried in France.
AML: Somewhere in France.
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: I don’t know where.
BB: Exactly where. No. Oh dear. Ok.
AML: Research to that.
BB: Right.
AML: And all my other cousins were in the forces during the war.
BB: Yes.
AML: You know. In various bits.
BB: Yes. But no brothers and sisters.
AML: No.
BB: No.
BB: But you remember your cousins were in the armed forces during the war. Did you ever meet up in Stirling? On leave and things.
AML: No.
BB: No.
AML: I never met them at all.
BB: Never met them at all.
AML: No. It just so happened that, you know —
BB: What was leave like? Did you get regular leave or did it — haphazard? Or —
AML: When you were flying on operations you got I think every seventh week was a leave week. I can’t really remember.
BB: Right.
AML: You got quite a bit of leave. We were quite fortunate. I think, I think it was every seventh week. I can’t remember to be quite —
BB: Yeah. But you did get regular leave.
AML: We got regular leave. Better than most people.
BB: Yes.
AML: Better than most people. Yes.
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: Yes we did. Aye. Aye.
BB: I’ve heard that before from other veterans.
AML: Yeah. And we always got our [unclear], you know. Of course. I’m talking from an NCO point of view.
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: I don’t know remember what the officers got. They would get the same as us.
BB: Right.
AML: But that’s, that’s their —
BB: Were you made up to flight sergeant before?
AML: After a year I was —
BB: You were a warrant officer weren’t you?
AML: I was, after a year I got my flight sergeant.
BB: Yeah. You went in as a, sorry, you must have joined as an LAC.
AML: Oh I think I was an AC2. I don’t know —
BB: Sorry, AC2.
AML: An AC2 I think.
BB: And then gone through your training.
AML: Training.
BB: And then you would have got your sergeant’s stripes.
AML: Sergeant. That’s right and then I got my flight sergeant.
BB: Now, was that before you went to OUT? Sergeant. To be sergeant.
AML: Yes.
BB: Yeah.
AML: Ah huh. When everybody went to OTU they were all aircrew by that.
BB: Yes.
AML: They were all qualified aircrew.
BB: Ok. Ok. So once you got your wings you made a sergeant.
AML: That’s right.
BB: And then you got your flight sergeant.
AML: Yes.
BB: And then you got your warrant officer.
AML: Warrant yeah.
BB: That’s very good.
AML: I got my warrant officer last. I told you. After nine months.
BB: Yes.
AML: You could take, you could take your flight sergeant after nine months.
BB: Yes.
AML: And your W after a year.
BB: Yes.
AML: But Tom said, ‘Oh no you should do it the other way around. You get more money.’ But you don’t get it you know.
BB: And was that was that on a selection basis or a board?
AML: No. It was automatic.
BB: Was it automatic?
AML: Yeah.
BB: Oh I see.
AML: Unless you really had been a bad boy or something.
BB: A bad boy. That’s right.
AML: As far as I can understand it virtually just came through on station, a station order, you know.
BB: Routine orders. Yes. That’s it.
AML: Follow through on flight sergeants.
BB: Right.
AML: In fact I’ve got the papers of my father.
BB: Right.
AML: The same way.
BB: Yes.
AML: In the army way back.
BB: So it was, it was on a good record and on time.
AML: That’s right. Yeah.
BB: Ok. That’s fine.
AML: And I got my warrant officer the same way.
BB: Yes.
AML: The warrant officer was slightly different. I can remember. I think you went in front of the CO.
BB: Yes.
AML: Or your squadron CO.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And he asked you a few questions. Blah blah blah. He knew of you. He knew of you of course by this time anyway.
BB: Yes, of course he did.
AML: And he would say ok.
BB: And he would have had your flight commander’s report and all the rest of it. Yeah.
AML: Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.
BB: And so you got your Tate and Lyle’s on your, on your sleeve.
AML: Aye. I’ve got a picture. Over there.
BB: Yes.
AML: Over there.
BB: Yes. Yeah. Got your Tate and Lyle’s.
AML: My Tate and Lyle’s. Yeah.
BB: Yeah.
AML: Yeah.
BB: That’s great. Now tell me about, tell me about, I’m going to ask you certain aspects of Bomber Command and you can say well did you know about these things or not. There was a lot of, there was a lot of problem with venereal disease in Bomber Command. So much so that the Bomber Command chief medical officer went to see Bomber Harris and —
AML: In his book yes. It’s in the book. Aye.
BB: Was there any instances of that on your squadron that you knew? I mean it’s not something that somebody would brag, talk about.
AML: No. No. I don’t think, I don’t remember.
BB: No.
AML: I don’t remember.
BB: The medical officer didn’t give the talks and all that kind of thing.
AML: No.
BB: No.
AML: No. We got a very terrible talk. A horrible talk at ITW. At —
BB: Initial Training Wing. Right.
AML: At Aircrew Reception Centre.
BB: Oh right.
AML: Most of us didn’t know the first thing they were talking about. That’s how innocent we all were.
BB: So naive and young then.
AML: Oh absolutely. People don’t believe it. We were really.
BB: Yes.
AML: You got an odd guy who’d been a bit of a man of the world sort of style.
BB: Aye. No.
AML: But the rest of us we knew what women were and all the rest of it.
BB: Ok.
AML: But that was it.
BB: Alright. That’s fine.
AML: No it was —
BB: No. It was fine.
AML: It was a sort of movie. I mean they actually, you know.
BB: You grew up very quickly no doubt.
AML: Yeah. It was an American made movie.
BB: Right.
AML: About how they met and this guy goes with this lassie and all the rest of it.
BB: Right.
AML: And then graphic pictures of your [laughs]
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: Thingummy.
BB: All the aftermath of all of that yeah.
AML: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: But to scare you as well and to give you information.
AML: Aye. It did. I never ever met anyone to my knowledge.
BB: No. No. Ok. Well as I said it’s nothing you would sort of say, hey. You know. But the other thing I want to talk about is LMF. Lack of moral fibre. Did you have any knowledge or —
AML: I never met anybody of LMF.
BB: No. Anybody on your squadron or the station that —
AML: Our first navigator.
BB: That you know.
AML: Our first navigator. We’d had a long protracted training at OTU because we kept losing people.
BB: Right.
AML: We lost two navigators at OTU.
BB: What? They were scrubbed?
AML: Aye. Scrubbed.
BB: Yeah.
AML: The first one just suddenly packed up his nav bag one night and said, ‘I’m not having any more of this.’ And disappeared. That’s the last we saw of him.
BB: Right.
AML: I don’t think it was LMF. It was just a case of —
BB: Just got out of it.
AML: I mean he was fully qualified to be a navigator.
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
AML: And then the next thing what happened to me was much the same. Two navigators on the trot and of course —
BB: That would have delayed you graduating from OTU.
AML: Yeah. Of course the pundits said to us, ‘Oh you’ll get a lot of hours in Wellingtons you’ll finish up in the Far East in Wellingtons.’ This sort of thing. You know. That’s what happened to us. That’s why we were held up first of all.
BB: Right. Ok. And the other and the other issue was morale generally. Because at your time with, in Bomber Command it was towards the end. Was morale fairly high?
AML: Oh aye. Very high. Yeah. Yeah.
BB: Yeah. I mean the losses had, the losses in Bomber Command were horrendous.
AML: Oh aye I’d be the first to admit that. It was unfortunate of course. People getting killed the last day of the war.
BB: Yes.
AML: That happened.
BB: Yes.
AML: But we didn’t have the colossal losses they had in —
BB: 1943.
AML: 1943/44.
BB: 1944. Early ’44. Yeah.
AML: Oh No. No. No.
BB: The Battle of the Ruhr. The Battle of Berlin.
AML: That’s right. That’s right. That’s when the chop rate—
BB: Were more or less gone
AML: That’s when the chop rate were really something to —
BB: But German night fighters were still flying.
AML: Oh yeah.
BB: When they got the fuel.
AML: Yeah.
BB: And the flak was just –
AML: Yeah. Flak was, your biggest worry was flak.
BB: Did you ever get to see any of the German jets?
AML: Yes.
BB: The Luftwaffe jets.
AML: Yes. I saw a 163 in actual action. It’s all in my logbook.
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
AML: And we went to [pause] the last raid of the war we did. I saw a 163 way below us [schwoooo noise]
BB: That was the Bremen. Bremen.
AML: Bremen.
BB: Yes.
AML: Aye. Aye. Aye. But no —
BB: It didn’t, it didn’t attack or —
AML: No. It had come up — I think 5 Group went to Hamburg the same day.
BB: Right.
AML: And —
BB: Of course you were in 4 Group.
AML: I was in 3 Group.
BB: Sorry. 3 Group.
AML: Some of the things I’m telling you now is on reflection. I mean I would need to really, you know think what exactly it was what it was on reflection I can remember.
BB: Right.
AML: Because I don’t want to line shoot to you under any circumstance. No. That was, that was, I saw a 16. I saw, I saw 262s in Germany after the war.
BB: After the war. On the ground.
AML: We were over in France.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And I saw them there.
BB: Yeah.
AML: They were certainly a very terrible aeroplane. Wonderful.
BB: Right. Now. Dropping the food parcels and other things to the Dutch. That must have been very rewarding.
AML: Oh very. Great. Great.
BB: Because the Dutch were starving at that stage.
AML: The great thing about it was you were allowed to fly low.
BB: Yes.
AML: Down to two hundred or less. Three hundred feet. In fact lower. My skipper took us down to about twenty eight feet some of the time. We were so low. Because he wanted to low fly and I used to say I’m getting water in to the tail turret [laughs] We flew low over —
BB: You did three of those you said.
AML: Pardon?
BB: You did three trips.
AML: We did three trips.
BB: Yeah.
AML: Yeah. Yeah
BB: And then the other humanitarian thing was bringing the POWs back.
AML: That’s correct. Bringing prisoners of war back. Yeah.
BB: From Italy and Germany.
AML: Yeah. The Americans were flying them from either lower or upper Silesia and we were picking them up at Juvincourt.
BB: Right.
AML: And I can remember I think the station was run by Germans as far as I can remember. Nearly all the German people seemed to be able to do the menial tasks there.
BB: Yes. Right.
AML: And then we, the Japanese war was still on of course.
BB: Yes. Of course.
AML: We were bringing them back from Germany at that time. Yeah.
BB: And they, they were obviously very pleased to get, be getting home.
AML: Oh yeah. Yeah.
BB: How many could you get in a Lancaster?
AML: I think I can remember off hand. It was either thirty or twenty six. I can’t honestly remember.
BB: And they all sat on the floor.
AML: Yeah.
BB: Or wherever they could.
AML: Yeah. They used to say in the air force you know this is a rubbish and that’s rubbish. I never saw organisation so wonderful as supply dropping and the prisoners of war. When we, when we went out to bring the prisoners of war back I can remember I was given a bag and in it was discs. And on the disc was a stencilled number one, two, three, four, five, six.
BB: Yeah. Whatever yeah.
AML: And on the fuselage someone had stencilled numbers inside the fuselage. And the idea was that I gave you a number five disc and you went in and the other gunner would say, ‘There’s number five. Sit there.’ And he sat on the floor.
BB: Yeah. Ok.
AML: At number five.
BB: So it was like a boarding, a boarding pass today.
AML: It was really.
BB: Yes.
AML: A very highly organised.
BB: Everybody had their place they had to sit.
AML: That’s right.
BB: And this would have been worked on a centre of gravity basis in the aircraft presumably.
AML: It must have been. Although it was some of the, some of the crew wanted to see land and of course they moved about, you know.
BB: Right.
AML: And I said, ‘Now don’t move about.’ You know.
BB: And did you ever go on any Cook’s Tours as well to look at the German cities that had been bombed.
AML: Yes. I did the Cook’s Tours as well. Yeah.
BB: Yeah.
AML: You’ll see the places we went to.
BB: Yes. That must have been quite sobering.
AML: We took, we took ground crew with us.
BB: Yes. Yes. Ground crew and the ground crew and the people from ops and the WAAFs.
AML: That’s right. Aye.
BB: And so on. Yeah.
AML: Took them with us. Aye.
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: I forget where we went.
BB: Ok.
AML: You’ll see it.
BB: Did bomber Harris ever come to see you at the station?
AML: I think he did. As I told you, I think, yesterday.
BB: Yes.
AML: I can’t honestly remember but I’m almost certain somebody told me he did — I can’t, I would be wrong to tell you.
BB: No. No. He did go around.
AML: I’d be wrong to tell you. Yeah.
BB: How was he perceived by the guys on the squadron? Was he just, was he just Harris and that was it or –
AML: Oh aye. He was —
BB: Or did they actually —
AML: He was a good leader.
BB: Yeah.
AML: He did a lot for aircrew. He, again this is all —
BB: Yes.
AML: Sort of —
BB: Your own opinion. Yes.
AML: General talk.
BB: Right. Right.
AML: I don’t know how true or how bad it is.
BB: Right.
AML: But I understand he was the person who wanted every aircrew be commissioned. Or everybody LACs.
BB: Right.
AML: And I mean no different. He wanted all crews to be the same because they were all taking the same risks.
BB: Right.
AML: It couldn’t have worked that way.
BB: No.
AML: But that was the idea.
BB: Yeah.
AML: Most pilots of four engine aircraft were commissioned.
BB: Yeah. Or warrant officers.
AML: Or some —
BB: Yeah.
AML: We had two ome sergeant pilots.
BB: Yeah. A lot of sergeant pilots.
AML: They blotted their copy book but were so good they stayed as they were.
BB: Yeah.
AML: If you came on a squadron it was possible to be still a sergeant. Might have been a flight sergeant by the time he got to bomber, to thingummybob.
BB: Yeah.
AML: But there was. You’ll see on the crew list there.
BB: Yeah. Sergeants.
AML: Sergeants. Aye.
BB: And and and then you came out – what in ’47.
AML: I came out in ’47. I think it was ’47.
BB: ’47. You know the war had been finished a while so you had all that civilian.
AML: Flying.
BB: Flying. And you had obviously bringing back prisoners of war still at that time.
AML: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: Some weren’t being released until late.
AML: Yeah. Yeah. We converted on to Lincolns before I came out.
BB: That’s right. Because they were —
AML: Tiger Force.
BB: Tiger Force. That’s right, they’re the ones that were going to go to Japan but didn’t happen because they dropped the atomic bomb.
AML: No. Just as well.
BB: Yes. And so you didn’t consider staying in as a regular? Transferring to the regular air force after the war.
AML: Yes and no. But then somebody said, ‘Well, ok you stay in.’ Who the hell wants a gunner when the war’s finished? I’d have to re-muster probably.
BB: Well it had them in the Lincolns so you would have been a very experienced air gunner if you’d stayed on the Lincolns.
AML: Ah. No. I mean they were on the Lincolns. Ok
BB: They’d probably give you a job on ops or something like that.
AML: I didn’t – Unless I was flying I wasn’t interested.
BB: No. Ok. So you weren’t tempted. One because you had this very good job in Civvy Street which was being held for you.
AML: Well that’s right.
BB: Yeah.
AML: At that time it wasn’t such a good job. Just a normal clerk’s job.
BB: But it was a regular job.
AML: But I had a job to come back to.
BB: It was a regular job.
AML: Plus the fact my mother was living alone.
BB: Yes. Exactly. Here.
AML: Here.
BB: Right.
AML: And I thought well what am I going to do?
BB: Yeah. That’s right.
AML: Funnily enough I met quite a few chaps who I’d served with in the squadron who had stayed on and signed on and finished up at Lossiemouth.
BB: Oh yes.
AML: And when I went to Elgin. My first posting with the civil service at Elgin.
BB: That’s very close to Lossiemouth.
AML: I met one of these guys, one or two guys in the pub. They said, ‘You should go back in again. The money’s good.’ And I half thought of going back.
BB: Yeah. Because you could have re-mustered.
AML: Oh well.
BB: Because they, you were, once they awarded your brevet.
AML: Yeah.
BB: You wore it forever.
AML: You wore it. Yeah.
BB: Unless you did something really wrong.
AML: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: And they took it away from you.
AML: Yeah. Oh no.
BB: But you know I —
AML: They couldn’t take your brevet off you.
BB: But when I was a reservist I was one for thirty three years. When I first joined as APO, acting pilot officer up at Kinloss and other stations you had these old hairies as we used to call them. Who still had their —
AML: That’s right.
BB: You know, wartime brevets on.
AML: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
BB: But they’d been re-mustered as ops clerks.
AML: Did you never, did you never fly at all Bruce?
BB: In Nimrods.
AML: Oh Nimrods.
BB: I used to fly in the Nimrods.
AML: What as? Not as aircrew though.
BB: No. I was —
AML: I thought you said the technical. Aye.
BB: Well I was in intelligence so I was there to look at things. Yeah. Yeah.
AML: No. I never thought much about that.
BB: No. No. But they were a great bunch. And of course the Nimrod is a multi crew aircraft.
AML: That’s right.
BB: So it had kinships to Bomber Command.
AML: Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s right.
BB: You know. You had your crew.
AML: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: And you know everybody stuck together and —
AML: Oh you could read each other like a book.
BB: Oh yes. And of course we had to brief those crews much the same. And it hasn’t changed. You know, they’d all come to briefing. They’d sit down. The wing commander would stand up. Or the group captain would stand up. The curtains would be drawn.
AML: That’s it.
BB: Just like that.
AML: Aye.
BB: And they would either go [groan] another Atlantic trip or another Mediterranean trip or wherever it was. And all the plot would be up there. Where everything was.
AML: Isn’t it funny that you found out about your crew in many ways? Our wireless operator thought he was the greatest wireless operator in the world.
BB: And was he?
AML: I don’t know. But anyway we had an exercise we did occasionally to go out to the North Sea or out to the Atlantic to — navigation really .
BB: Yeah. Nav ex.
AML: To find a weather ship.
BB: A weather ship.
AML: Or a destroyer. Or something.
BB: Yeah.
AML: I can’t remember all the details. And you had to signal and of course he was in the astrodome and of course aldis they had in the Navy you see —
BB: The aldis lamp.
AML: Aye.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And I always remember he couldn’t read so he said to send up, ‘Please send slowly.’ [laughs] He couldn’t read the navy. You know, they were, they were tremendous. You know.
BB: Yeah, that’s right.
AML: I’ll always remember that.
BB: That’s right.
AML: And my skipper. He hated, he didn’t like landing in the half light and it used to annoy my navigator furiously because you were coming back and I’ m talking about, this is basically after the war. Of course during the war you were restricted what you could and couldn’t do. A long cross country you know.
BB: Yeah.
AML: Our navigator was a great one for food. He was desperate for food. And he would say, ‘I’ve packed up my nav bag. You’re alright. You’ll be over the fields in ten minutes.’ And Jack would say, ‘I want a dog leg.’ And he would get a fury, ‘What the hell are you on about?’
BB: I want to eat my sandwiches.
AML: ‘I want to land in the dark.’ And I said why do you like landing in the dark?’ He said, ‘What I can’t see doesn’t bother me.’ [laughs]
BB: Yeah. Well that’s very true.
AML: Yeah. That was him.
BB: Yeah.
AML: He liked to land in the dark. Yeah.
BB: That’s good. That’s right. And then of course when they came back from their trips in the Nimrod, just like in Bomber Command, we would sit down and debrief them.
AML: That’s right.
BB: And they used to hate that.
AML: Aye. Aye.
BB: Because they wanted to get away to their bed or get their breakfast.
AML: That’s right.
BB: Or whatever.
AML: The trouble with that was with your egg. We got an egg with everything.
BB: Yeah. But you really had to be very strict with them and say, ‘No. Let’s get this done and then you can go.’
AML: You had to get an egg with everything.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And the favourite was, ‘I’ll have his egg if he’s not coming back’
BB: if you’re not coming back.
AML: This sort of thing.
BB: And of course you must have seen even even at that late stage of the war, bomber offensive, you must have seen vacant chairs at breakfast and —
AML: Aye well —
BB: Guys that didn’t, that went out and didn’t come back.
AML: Funny. We were very fortunate on 15. I don’t think the time I was on it we had a very heavy —
BB: Casualty rate.
AML: Casualty rate. Funnily enough one of the chaps in the Aircrew Association was on 15. A hell of a nice bloke. He was shot down in France. I didn’t know him in the squadron but he was shot down in France. Had quite a rough time getting out. Eventually captured and became a prisoner of war.
BB: Right.
AML: And was on The Long March.
BB: Right. Ok.
AML: He was on the same squadron as I was. 15.
BB: Right. That must have been.
AML: Quite a lucky squadron. 15.
BB: That wasn’t great.
AML: I don’t think we had colossal losses on 15. I don’t know why or how. I don’t remember saying oh —
BB: What about, what about losses at OTU? HCU. There must have been crashes there.
AML: They were quite high. Yeah. Those. Somebody said to me after, of course, please understand I’m talking fifty sixty years ago.
BB: Yeah. I understand.
AML: Somebody said there was almost a crash every day at OTU. Now, I couldn’t ascertain that or confirm that. I don’t know.
BB: Well —
AML: But there were certainly one or two crashes when we were at OTU.
BB: I know that my late uncle was killed as an OTU. Instructing.
AML: Yeah.
BB: At Westcott. Number 11 OTU.
AML: Yeah. And we had one or two hairy do’s at OTU.
BB: And we paid, we paid tribute to him a couple years ago and all the guys at OTUs. And I did my research and something like eight thousand aircrew killed at OTU in Bomber Command. And just in Bomber Command.
AML: Probably would be. Well the chop —
BB: From collisions or bad landings.
AML: The chop rate on Wellingtons was quite high.
BB: Yeah. One in ten.
AML: They were second hand aircraft at OTU.
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
AML: I mean they weren’t, aircraft had been sent to OTU. You know.
BB: Yes.
AML: So we understand. I don’t know.
BB: And they went didn’t they? Yeah. Well there were, yeah. Well you take the Whitleys. They were front line aircraft.
AML: That’s right.
They were relegated to the OTUs.
AML: That’s right. Yeah.
BB: You know you went on the Whitleys.
AML: Well, they certainly were.
BB: And the Wellingtons as well.
AML: Wellingtons at OTU.
BB: And the Stirlings of course at the Heavy Conversion Unit.
AML: Aye. Heavy Conversion. Stirlings. Aye. Aye.
BB: Because they didn’t, they —
AML: They took them off.
BB: You either went to a Heavy Conversion and then on to a Lancaster Finishing School but you —
AML: I don’t know why we did that.
BB: Didn’t do that.
AML: This is the thing. Quite a lot of people — had to believe, hard to believe I was on Stirlings. Most of them went from OTU to Lanc Finishing School.
BB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AML: And that was it. I don’t know why we went on. I don’t know. Just the way the system worked.
BB: The system worked. Yeah.
AML: We went, they went on to to that and we weren’t really long on Stirlings.
BB: No.
AML: But we were on Stirlings anyway.
BB: But it gave the heavy, it gave you the heavy, it gave the crew the sort of heavy experience that they needed.
AML: Aye. I liked the Stirling very much indeed.
BB: It looked a very roomy aircraft.
AML: It was a very roomy aircraft. Just like a big Sunderland.
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: Really is.
BB: Yes.
AML: And I liked it.
BB: A Sunderland with wheels.
AML: Yeah. I didn’t care much for the Lincoln.
BB: Well it was a kind of a hybrid wasn’t it? You know.
AML: A hybrid. I didn’t care much for Lincolns.
BB: We’ll add a bit of this and add a bit of that.
AML: We had a twenty millimetre cannon on a Lincoln.
BB: Yes. Yes.
AML: And a lot of trouble with them and a lot of trouble —
BB: They used them in, against the terrorists in Malaysia.
AML: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: The Australian Lincolns anyway.
AML: We never did that and I think latterly the two turrets that took the twenty millimetres out the turrets. I can’t remember honestly but I flew in the tail of a Lincoln all the time. I flew first, initially I flew as an air gunner instructor and for a while the rule was flying that when we first got Lincolns they were nearly all ex-instructors that were in the top turrets.
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
AML: Because the bloody cannon recoiled across your head. If you moved out the road the, rotated, you could get your head taken off easily.
BB: Right. Right.
AML: These are things you remember yet you couldn’t put down on paper and say this is the God’s truth. You know.
BB: No. No. No. No. I know.
AML: It’s just the things I remember. It’s difficult.
BB: Well Alistair thank you very much for for telling us your story and we do appreciate it very much. And I’ll now terminate the interview. And I’ll have a look at your logbooks and other bits and pieces if I may.
AML: Aye. Aye. Sure. Sure.
BB: Yeah. Thank you.
AML: A lot of that stuff of course you’ll probably be able to edit out. You won’t use it all will you?
BB: No. No I don’t think so.
AML: No.
BB: And also thank you for signing the sheets and the other forms that I’ve asked you to sign. Thank you very much. So —
AML: Aye. Aye. Aye.
BB: So —
AML: I think you’ll find that most aircrew don’t really talk very much about it to other people unless it’s aircrew people.
BB: Right.
AML: And you can always find out somebody immediately they start saying, for example that I was told to bale out, and the crew – the nineteen crew baled out, you know someone makes a mistake.
BB: Yeah.
AML: You know right away that they’re actually line shooters. Ahat they said, you know.
BB: Yeah.
AML: You can’t really.
BB: No.
AML: Well we never did that, you know. Like on our squadrons, we cleaned our guns, well a lot – we didn’t do that on our squadron. I depended on the gunnery.
BB: The armourers used to do that.
AML: Yeah.
BB: But mind you had to be able to clear blockages in the aircraft.
AML: Oh yeah. Sit down, blindfold, sit down blindfold.
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
AML: And all that sort of thing.
BB: Right.
AML: But each squadron had its own different thing that depended how the CO looked at a particular item.
BB: Right.
AML: He might say, ‘Well I want you to do this,’ and you did it.
BB: What about dinghy drills and things like that.
AML: We did that as well. Yeah.
BB: Was that a regular thing?
AML: I don’t think so. No. We went to [pause] now where did we go? When we were at OTU we went to the Leicester Baths.
BB: Yes.
AML: And the baths were blacked out.
BB: Sure.
AML: And you got in first of all and they said, ‘Right this is your dinghy drill.’ There were RAF instructors I’m sure there. We all went up in one of these big huge big gareys. These big trucks they had with maybe four or five crews. Or three crews anyway. And we wondered why these guys were all dashing to go in such a hurry, you and saying, ‘You’re bloody keen,’ but we didn’t realise that if you went in first you got dry flying kit. If you went in second you put a dirty, you put a wet flying kit on.
BB: Ok right.
AML: You put the flying kit on you see.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And you had to use this and you had to jump in the dinghy with the lights out.
BB: Yeah.
AML: That’s why you had a whistle.
BB: Sure. Because it was dark. Simulating Bomber Command.
AML: The whistle was supposed to, aye. That’s why the aircrew used whistles.
BB: Whistles.
AML: Every aircrew whistled you know.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And you did this. Then they turned the dinghy upside down.
BB: You had to right it.
AML: You’ve got to right the dinghy again.
BB: Right.
AML: Exactly.
BB: And it was a five man dinghy. Or a seven man dinghy.
AML: Five man dinghy. Something like that.
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
AML: These are the sort of things you remember. That was one of the things. Why were they in such a hurry to get in? Because that was —
BB: What about using the parachute? Did you have any training?
AML: No.
BB: On how to do that?
AML: No. Never had any training on the parachute training at all.
BB: It was just there it is. Count. One. Two. Three. And pull the string.
AML: That’s right. That’s right. I think basically the reason would be that if you had to do a parachute jump and something had happened you wouldn’t jump in an emergency.
BB: No.
AML: You know you may be frightened to do that.
BB: Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. And that’s very good wisdom. Yes. Because —
AML: I think probably. I don’t know.
BB: If it’s your first time to go anyway.
AML: These are things that have come up in reflection when you were talking to a pupil.
BB: Yeah.
AML: Maybe that’s the reason why we didn’t do that.
BB: Yeah.
AML: You know.
BB: Ok.
AML: I don’t think there was any sort of written down about that. But we did do a bit of, of what I can remember now, we were in a hangar and we seemed to get a harness on.
BB: Oh yeah and swing a bit.
AML: And you jumped and you swung down and landed.
BB: Yeah. Just tell you how to land.
AML: Close your knees and this sort of thing, you know.
BB: Yeah. And what about parades and drills? Did you do squadron parades?
AML: Air crew are notorious for not wanting drills you know.
BB: Yeah.
AML: We really were a rough shower. I mean we were really were. I mean we got away with murder. I mean I must admit.
BB: Well I can assure you they haven’t changed.
AML: Yeah. If we could get away with it we got away with it.
BB: Yeah.
AML: I’m not going to bore you to tears of course, I hope.
BB: No.
AML: One of the great things you would probably know — after the war things changed of course dramatically as you can well imagine. And they had, I think it was a Friday. I can’t remember. The whole airfield shut down. And you had to participate in organised games.
BB: Oh yes.
AML: The whole station. WAAF. Everybody had to go on organised games. And it was organised in as much as they came around the gunnery section and said, ‘Right. Who’s all going to be play football?’ ‘Who’s all going to play rugby?’ ‘Who’s all going to play netball?’ You know. This sort of thing. It was all down. Your name was put down.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And I, when you’re out in your —
BB: Your PT kit.
AML: Your PT kit and your fancy [unclear] You went down to the front of the hangars and somebody would, I can’t remember, maybe the station would detail all the crews. Who’s going to be?’ And I hated sport. I hated sport. I never was fit. My father was a football referee and all that. I had no time for sport. I still don’t have time for sport. Anyway, I thought well this is bloody terrible.
BB: So what did you do? How did you get out of that?
AML: Well —
BB: Stay in the goal and hope nobody came near it.
AML: No. Well it was quite regular. You had to be back at a certain time. And I thought how can I bloody get out of this thing and I happened to hear one day to hear oh he said there’s flying. I said how do you get in to Waddington, or how do you get to so and so. Oh we’re flying. And I thought so I said to skipper, ‘Did you hear that?’ Because he hated sport too. And I said, ‘Can you no volunteer us to fly crews up?’ And he always wanted somebody in the tail, we all, so that would be a good idea. We got away with that for, however, we didn’t get away, they said right. I said, ‘Well what’s the least supervised job you could get?’ Cross country running.
BB: Go away and hide somewhere.
AML: So we used to run in to the pub [laughs] we used to put a pound note in our shoe.
BB: Yeah.
AML: And around the nearest pub and sit in the pub and then come running back.
BB: Running back. I see.
AML: We got caught out because when the squadron sports came on.
BB: Yeah.
AML: They couldn’t get relay through. The three mile relay run. They couldn’t get, the skipper said, well the CO said, ‘All those who did cross country running can do it.’ We nearly got killed doing this ruddy thing after. You know.
BB: Never mind. Ok.
AML: We were found out, you know.
BB: Right.
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AMcPhersonLambA150726
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Interview with Alexander Lamb. One
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Sound
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eng
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00:47:13 audio recording
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Bruce Blanche
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2015-07-26
Description
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Alexander Lamb grew up in Scotland and worked in the civil service before he joined the Royal Air Force. He flew five operations as an air gunner with 15 Squadron.
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Suffolk
Wales--Bridgend
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Julie Williams
11 OTU
14 OTU
15 Squadron
1654 HCU
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bombing of Helgoland (18 April 1945)
Cook’s tour
crewing up
Gee
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lincoln
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Feltwell
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Wigsley
RAF Wyton
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/122/3534/ATaitJT160610.2.mp3
9f0edd1b79ed6f88dccec2e22a8097de
Dublin Core
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Title
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Tait, John
John Tait
J T Tait
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. The collection consists of an oral history interview with Warrant Officer John Thomas Tait (1923 - 2019, 175522 Royal Air Force), his service and release book and four photographs. John Tait flew 34 operations with 50 Squadron from RAF Skellingthorpe as a wireless operator / air gunner.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Tait and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-10
Identifier
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Tait, JT
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by [name of the lender] and catalogued by [name of the cataloguer].
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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MC: This interview is being conducted on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewee is John Tait and the interviewer is Mike Connock. The interview is taking place at the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archives at Riseholme College on Friday 10th June 2016. Also present at the interview are Alan Tait, Mrs Beryl Tait and Ken Tait. OK John, what I want you to do is just tell me a bit about um, when and where you were born for a start.
JT: Well I was born in America in Helena, Montana and my mother was English and my Dad was Scottish. Anyway my mum had had enough of travelling abroad so she wanted to come home. So when I was five she brought me to England and that was fine. Took a while to get used to people, people getting used to me actually. But anyway, when the war started we —
MC: Yeah, go on John, it’s just, what did your parents do? What was —
JT: My dad was, he was a retired cattle farmer and my mother was a retired school teacher.
MC: So how old were you when you came to —
JT: I was five.
MC: Five.
JT: Five, yes.
MC: So you started school in the UK?
JT: I started school in the UK, yeah.
MC: And that was? What year were you born?
JT: 1923.
MC: 1923, yes. So this would be ’28 when you came to us.
JT: It was, yes.
MC: And, so what about school days in those days, what was that like?
JT: Well school days, well I went to a local school, I didn’t start until I was six but it was very good, a local school, I enjoyed it and then when I was eleven I went up to, oh hell where did I go, oh God, isn’t it awful. Temple Road Central Boys School in Birkenhead. It was a secondary school and I went there and very good, I was accepted even though I was from the outer districts because they were nearly all lads from the city. But we got on ok, I did very well. In fact I played football for their team, but anyway I went to school there ‘til I was fourteen and then I took me O levels, except they weren’t O levels then but it were whatever. Anyway then I went to work in an office to train as a cost accountant, me dad knew someone who had an office and he would train — so I went to train as a cost accountant. Anyway, when the war broke out I was eighteen years of age and I didn’t like being in an office all day so I volunteered for the RAF.
MC: What made you choose the RAF?
JT: Well there were two pals of mine, lived in the same road as me and they were both wireless operator air gunners and neither of them came back, they both lost their life. One was Derek Jones and the other was Bob Christie, Bob Christie, yeah. They both lost their lives as it happened, but I was the only one of the three that came back. But anyway I volunteered for the RAF —
MC: So that was when you were eighteen?
JT: Eighteen yes.
MC: Oh right.
JT: I went to Padgate for six weeks, square bashing and then we went to Black — [pause] While I was there I volunteered for air crew and um, I went to Blackpool on a wireless operators air gunners course.
MC: Hmm.
JT: I forget how long it was but anyway I did a tour there and then I went to Stormy Down to do an air gunners course and then I qualified for that and I was posted to a place called Bruntingthorpe which, where they trained lads straight from school
MC: Was that an operational training unit?
JT: Pardon?
MC: Operational training unit?
JT: Operational training, yep. So I —
MC: Do you remember which one it was?
JT: Bruntingthorpe.
MC: Bruntingthorpe.
JT: Bruntingthorpe yep. RAF Bruntingthorpe yeah. Anyway, I did me tour there and the next thing was to go to a higher, err, higher course for wireless operators up north. So I went up there and while we were there they were sorting out the air gunners. Well I got picked to go down to Stormy Down to do a six week air gunners course, which I did and I enjoyed. Anyway, having finished that we then went to Market Harborough, I think. And the skipper was there . Dougie Milligan came round, he was picking his crew for the Anson.
MC: And that was where you crewed up, at Market Harborough?
JT: That’s were I got picked by Dougie Milligan to go with him, yeah. That’s right. We went, we did, we went from there to —
MC: Market Harborough, that would have been the OTU I suspect.
JT: Sorry?
MC: Was the Operational Training Unit at Market —
JT: That was, the OTU at Market Harborough, OTU, it was yeah. And we went from Market Harborough to um, —
MC: Can I just interrupt you there. Um, at Market Harborough was that just the five crew?
JT: We hadn’t got, yes it was. We hadn’t got a full crew then.
MC: Because that was on, oh, what aircraft was that?
JT: It was on Wellingtons.
MC: Wellingtons, yeah.
JT: Because we were on Wellingtons yeah. Anyway, we picked up a oh, um, bit of a gunner [?] I think there.
MC: And a flight engineer?
JT: And that’s what we did. We were on Wellingtons. We hadn’t got a flight engineer, [coughs).
MC: Where did you pick those up?
JT: Picked them up at Market Harborough, picked two up at Market Harborough.
MC: Oh you did pick them up at Market Harborough did you?
JT: We didn’t pick the [pause] flight engineer, we picked him up later because they hadn’t got flight engineers on Lancs. But anyway, as it happened when he joined us and we went to um, from there to, oh, somewhere in North Lincoln, I don’t know. Oh I know, we went to go on Stirlings, that’s right at Scampton. We went to Scampton.
BT: Oooh.
JT: That’s right. And the skipper converted on to Stirlings and we picked up a, oh, [pause]
MC: Flight engineer?
JT: Flight engineer.
MC: Yup.
JT: And his name was Jimmy James and he came from Liverpool, funnily enough but he was a good lad. He’d been, he came from South Africa actually. He’d been a mechanic out there for years, he was, and he wanted to join air crew to bring him back home to train so he joined us and they brought him back to train as a flight engineer which he was delighted and he was with us until the end of our tour.
MC: So was that at a Lancaster finishing school or a conversion unit?
JT: Oh yes, it was Stirlings, Lancs finishing school yeah.
MC: Yeah, oh yeah, it was a heavy conversion unit.
JT: It was a conversion school.
MC: Yeah, yep, hmm.
JT: They were horrible things, big [laughter]the Stirling but we flew quite a lot of trips, not operations but flights. And then we went from having completed our course on Stirlings, we then went to [pause] we went on the squadron, that’s right.
MC: Did you not, you must have gone and converted from Stirlings to Lancasters?
JT: We converted to Lancasters, we didn’t convert to Lancs until we got to the squadron.
MC: Oh didn’t you?
JT: No I don’t think so. I’m just trying to think —
MC: You went to the Lancaster Finishing School I think, was that, um did you not go to —
JT: It was Scampton [unclear] converted on to Lancasters at Scampton, that’s right, yes we did, yeah. And err, that was when our crew was formed, we’d got a full crew.
MC: Yep.
JT: [pause] I’m sorry if it’s a bit bitty.
MC: Oh no, no it’s not. It’s fine, it’s no problem and so you got, so um, I mean up until then you got posted to your squadron but all the crew was made up.
JT: That’s right. There was, Dougie Milligan picked us up from, originally from Bruntingthorpe, that was it. [pause]
MC: Just going back slightly, back to when you joined up, um, as a teenager what was life like growing up just before the war. I’m sorry to have —
JT: It was fine, well I used to, I enjoyed football, I played a lot of football but of course when the war started we were classed as aliens.
MC: Oh!
JT: Because I was an American citizen, and we used to have to report to the police station once a month and that’s why I said ‘blow this I’m going to join the RAF’ so I did. [laughter] Yeah.
MC: So having been to the err, operation training unit, conversion unit, you were then posted to err, —
JT: Skellingthorpe
OTHER: Skellingthorpe, 50 Squadron.
JT: Yeah, that’s right.
MC: Can you remember arriving at Skellingthorpe, much about the station?
JT: Aah, we thought it was a bit out in the wilderness but err, yeah, we did no it was great, when you‘ve got a crew around you, you were quite happy.
MC: Yeah by that time they’d got the concrete runways and things like that.
JT: Oh yes, that’s right.
MC: Hmm, yeah. So, can you remember much about your first operation, all your operations, your first one for instance?
JT: No.
MC: Did it not stick with you.
JT: Doesn’t ring a bell. As I say, I did thirty three all with Dougie Milligan and I did one as a spare bod with a skipper named Mike, oh Pete Stockwell.
MC: What was his name? Pete?
JT: Peter Stockwell. He was a flight sergeant, he’d gone with me from Skellingthorpe to there, to train and they didn’t just trust him on Wellingtons so they put him on the Stirling. He would fly, flying a fighter, that’s right flying Spitfires 'til he pranged one and they told him to get off the squadron and get back to the squadron so he asked me would I go back with him and I said ‘of course I would’. So we formed another crew up and that was it.
MC: I mean you did some hairy operations. Does anything stand out in particular?
JT: Um, no, err, [pause].
OTHER: You said that, you know —
JT: The Ruhr Valley was the worst.
MC: Rurh, yeah, yeah [unclear]
OTHER: Well some of the operations you did were, you know, you did Munich –
JT: Pardon?
OTHER: You did Munich didn’t you?
JT: That was the longest, the longest trip was Munich I think.
OTHER: Yeah, Munich.
OTHER: Did you do Berlin?
JT: No.
OTHER: Yes, at the time, ‘cos at the time you were joining it was the lead up, leading up to D-Day.
JT: That’s right.
MC: So you would, did you do some, you obviously did some invasion support operations?
JT: Well we did some in France, we did a few trips in France, that’s right, that’s right yeah.
MC: Yeah, so the actual raids themselves you don’t remember much about?
JT: The operations? No. Ah, well —
MC: How did you feel, I mean did you err, —
JT: Probably scared stiff to start with, but err, —
MC: Yeah.
JT: But you got used to
MC: That’s what I’m trying to get at, you know, how did you —
JT: That’s right the first trip I always remember the first trip. I can’t remember where it was but I couldn’t believe it and I looked out of my rear window and I could see the fires down below and I said to Jimmy Marlow, ‘Jim come and have a look’. ‘Not bloody likely’ he said, ‘I’m sitting here’ and he was sitting on the table drinking his tea. He wouldn’t have a look out of the window.
MC: And Jimmy Marlow was the?
JT: He was the, he was the navigator.
MC: The navigator, yes.
JT: He was a sergeant or a flight sergeant then. Yeah. He’d worked for the Air Ministry and he wanted to get a commission so they could give him a position to go back to, when he went back from the RAF. Which he got in the end.
MC: So I, I gather Doug Milligan was a good skipper then?
JT: Oh, Dougie, yes.
MC: He got you through thirty three operations.
JT: He was dead on, he really was, he was.
MC: And you all had a good crew, you all got on well.
JT: Very good. We were lucky with the crew.
MC: Yeah, what about —
JT: We lost our rear gunner for a while at the end because he got frostbite and he was invalided out of the RAF and we got another, just for a couple of trips, but err, yeah we got on great.
MC: Yeah, what about socialising in the area round Lincoln?
JT: Oh.
MC: Don’t give too much away.
JT: You know Lincoln was a wonderful place to socialise, people were so friendly, it was great, they really were.
MC: You used to go out most evenings?
JT: Most evenings we’d be down the pub, local pub. In fact there was one night we were all out on the booze and they decided to put an op on and they sent the RAF Police round Lincoln calling for all members of 50 Squadron to come back and we went back to the squadron but we, some of them were half canned. Dougie Milligan wouldn’t bother, well he wasn’t a great drinker. He liked a drink but he wasn’t a great drinker, but the rest of us were [laughter].
MC: [laughter] you made full use of the local hostelries.
JT: That’s right, there’s a lot of nice people in Lincoln.
MC: So what, which, where did you used to go? Can you remember?
JT: I can’t remember the name of the pub. There was a pub down the road from Skellingthorpe and there was a lady there, she invited us in one night. Her husband works, he was working away, working on a job or something and she had two or three daughters or nurses who visited and she invited us to join them for a party one night and um, the night they put the operation off we were in Lincoln, she was sat in the back kitchen with me feeding me coffee to sober me up before we went back [laughter]. She was great, a lovely lady and she was, oh what was her name? No, it’s gone. She was lovely, the people were lovely they really were.
MC: So you got around in Lincoln?
JT: Oh yeah, no complaints
MC: Yes. It’s err, you were a wireless operator?
JT: Wireless operator, yes.
MC: Can you, I mean [pause] so you was a WOP air gunner, so I mean I gather you had your 21st birthday while you was on the squadron?
JT: Oh yes.
MC: So um, how did you celebrate that?
JT: [laughter] down the pub [laughter].
MC: [laughter] So they looked after you did they on your 21st?
JT: Oh yeah, had a fabulous time.
MC: So what did you get up to on that then? Anything special?
JT: Nothing, well apart from going for a drink in the pub, that’s about it, that’s all we did anyway.
MC: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JT: We hadn’t got enough money to go buying it or wining and dining but we went for a pint, yeah.
MC: Can you remember much about your C — Commanding Officer? Whoever your CO was?
JT: I’ll tell you who he was, not the Commanding Officer. Marshall of the Royal Air Force, Sir Mike Beetham.
MC: Uhuh.
JT: He, I think he was a flight lieutenant on our squadron and he was a flight lieutenant a very, B Flight, no sorry, I was on B, he was on A Flight. Yeah, Mike Beetham was on A Flight. He was a great bloke, very approachable, very pleasant chap.
MC: Did you know any of his crew?
JT: Well I did at the time but I don’t now. But —
MC: Sir Michael Beetham, so as I say, Reg Payne was Michael Beetham’s wireless operator. So you may know him.
JT: Oh well that’s somebody I’d perhaps recognise.
MC: How’s your morse these days then?
JT: Sorry?
MC: How’s our morse these days, morse code?
JT: I haven’t done any, dit dah dah. I can do it though.
MC: I’m sure you can.
JT: Yeah.
MC: Yeah. So you, obviously you finished your tour, you say you did thirty three?
JT: I did thirty three and then I stayed on, we were all, the crew was then dispersed, they was —
MC: Yeah?
JT: And I stayed on and did one trip with Pete Stockwell.
MC: Yeah? [pause] Yeah, and then where did you go from there?
JT: We went from there to um, I think we went to Market Harborough with Pete Stockie.
MC: Back to Market Harborough.
JT: Yep. He was told to get himself a crew and get back on the squadron, he was a bit of a lad was Pete, [laughter] flight lieutenant [laughter] but we have got a [unclear]
MC: So he finished up as a flight lieutenant then did he?
JT: Pete did.
MC: Yeah?
JT: Yeah. Well, our navigator Barney, he was a navigator with Pete, he was a flight lieutenant too. But we were, the rest of us were senior NCOs, yep.
MC: So how long were you at Market Harborough then on the OTU?
JT: Probably, maybe a year, a couple of years.
MC: As long as that?
JT: Well what they did, they asked, 35 Squadron was formed to do formation flying, twelve Lancs in formation and we were on that, Pete Stocky was on that so we went with him, formation flying. We used to do all over the country and then we went to America to celebrate Army Air Corps Day. We did six weeks tour in the States formation flying.
MC: So that would have been in ’45 then?
JT: That would be yeah, maybe ’46 I don’t know.
MC: How long were you over there?
JT: A long time ago.
MC: You was over there a long time?
JT: Well six weeks. We did six weeks.
MC: You enjoyed that?
JT: We started off in New York, went right down to the south coast and round about. We were the first crew to fly over the White House. They allowed aircraft to fly over the White House and the Lancs flew over there. But, oh we had a six weeks tour [unclear]
MC: And that was with 35 Squadron?
JT: 35 Squadron. We were entertained, taken to Hollywood, we were entertained in Hollywood shown the people doing the rehearsals and acting. We had a wonderful time really. Couldn’t, couldn’t do any wrong. [laughter] We came back and I asked to do me time after that. I only had about a fortnight to do when we came back. I got demobbed and that was it. But we had a wonderful time.
MC: So when were you demobbed?
JT: Uh —
MC: Because you stayed in —
JT: Before, I signed up for six months. I didn’t actually do the full six months I don’t think. They let me out early. I forget now to be honest.
OTHER: Indeed, probably late ’45.
MC: Yeah. So having come out the Air Force, what did you after the Air Force then?
JT: I needed a job obviously. I didn’t want to go, I didn’t want to be a cost accountant, there was no way. And a pal of mine worked for McAlpines, he was in the office at Sir Alfred McAlpines so I got a job, he got me a job in the office Sir Alfred McAlpines and I started there off as a [pause] stationery assistant then I was posted, I got asked to go out on site, I became a timekeeper then I became office manager and then became an area office manager and then while I was doing that I was doing a lot of the work that surveyors were doing and the chief surveyor said to me ‘John,’ he said ‘why don’t you take up surveying?’ he said, ‘you know more than these buggers’. So I applied and I went to the college of building for about six years I think, five years and I studied to be a quantity surveyor and became a chartered surveyor and I finished up my time in Cheshire County, yes I worked for Chester City, Cheshire County.
MC: So when did you meet Beryl then?
JT: Oh, I met Beryl way back, that was when —
BT: [laughter] Ah, when was that? I was —
JT: Where was I working then?
BT: Seventeen or eighteen, whenever that was because I’m eighty five on Sunday.
JT: Aye, that’s not good. Where were you, you were working at McKagan Barnes (?) weren’t you?
BT: Sorry?
JT: You were working at McKagan Barnes (?)
BT: Yeah, and I was in the accountants office.
JT: She was training in the accountant’s office.
MC: So that, you met before the war?
JT: Sorry?
MC: You met before the war?
JT: Oh, no.
BT: Oh no, after that.
MC: After the war?
BT: I used to see him very often going back off leave in his RAF uniform and I used to think, oh he looks alright and you know, [laughter] not realising I’d end up marrying you [laughter]. But um, no we just met virtually at a dance at the local dance hall.
JT: That’s right.
MC: Yes.
BT: He came in, we spent that whole night dancing. I was going out with the drummer in the band and I said to — when John said ‘can I take you home?’ and I said ‘well, see the chap playing the drums, he is my boyfriend so you’d better come with me to tell him’. So he did and, told him and I got a phone call from the chap the next day and he said ‘I can’t believe you did that’. I said, ‘well I’m sorry’ I said, ‘I’ve now met somebody else so we’ll just have to call it a day’.
MC: You must have been a bit of a lad in those days.
BT: I thought, well I could have just —
JT: I was a bit of a lad.
BT: I could have just walked out but I thought no, I’ll do the right thing and tell him.
JT: Thank you.
BT: And the fact that he didn’t like it well, you know [laughter].
OTHER: [unclear]
MC: Going back to the operational times.
JT: Well once you, sitting there with a [unclear] the searchlight picked you up as you went in and the skipper had to do evasive action which was climb and roll and—
MC: Corkscrew.
JT: and climb and roll. That happened on many operations.
MC: Yeah.
JT: But it was something you used to —
MC: Any close mishaps with other aircraft then?
JT: Oh, aye. Many a time. [laughter]. And our foreign friends but err —
MC: So you, you had a few escapades with some fighters then?
JT: Yep.
MC: Yeah. And managed to get away unscathed?
JT: That’s right.
MC: Obviously a good skipper.
JT: Thanks to the skipper. Yep, that’s right. Oh yes every, there was always other things with somebody on one of the ops.
MC: Did you always get them back to base at the same, you know?
JT: Yeah we did, we always got back, we, the last time we were, aah, the skipper was advised to make a landing in the South of England and we agreed. We were going on leave the next day so we said ‘come on we’ll give it a go’, so we went back and we got back and when we got back one of the aircraft engines packed up as we landed but err, the skipper got a remand for it. No we were cheering. Yeah. There were all kinds of little incidents but they were well, sort of part of the daily routine, or night routine.
MC: For you, yes.
JT: It was.
MC: [laughter] So, yeah, I mean it’s, you talked about it, I mean you say there were lots of incidents. Can you remember other incidences? Did you ever get diverted coming back, apart from that one incident when you didn’t go back?
JT: I think that’s the only occasion, which we didn’t — What they did, they sent a fighter out from Tangmere, which we ignored [laughter] and went back anyway, but err, that’s the only time.
MC: You ignored the fighter. What was he there to do?
JT: Pardon?
MC: What was the fighter from Tangmere there to do?
JT: It was a, oh bloody hell, I don’t know.
MC: No, what, why did they send him out?
JT: To guide us into Tangmere.
MC: Aaahh.
JT: But we didn’t take any notice. We went back, yeah. What was it, I forget the aircraft now, I knew it —
MC: So you never got any problems with coming back in bad weather, to Skellingthorpe then?
JT: Oh we did have rough times. From time to time you came in you could hardly land because of the weather but we made it. We’d got a good skipper in Dougie Milligan, he really was. He was a, he wasn’t, he was just going for it as much as I should have been, but err, he was on the ball and a good skipper.
MC: Yeah. So the flight engineer, he was?
JT: Oh Jimmy James was a great lad, oh yeah.
MC: A name like Jimmy James? [laughter]
JT: Yes, well he had a garage in Liverpool and I tried to find out about him and I found out about a week after he died. I used to belong the Aircrew Association, I think it was. And I asked them to fish out for any documents and they said the only one we’ve got is Jimmy James and he died a week ago and he was our flight engineer. Our bomb aimer, the one I would like to get in touch with is Ronnie Pugh, ‘cos Ronnie Pugh came to our house. In fact there’s a picture of him at our house, he came to our house, he was a great lad was Ronnie. He was a professional pianist before the war, he played for Maurice Winnick and wherever we went, on the piano, we always had a gang round together. [laughter] No problems with drinking with him.
MC: So, he was the navigator you say?
JT: He was the bomb aimer.
MC: What about the navigator?
JT: Jimmy, was very —
MC: Jimmy, this was Jimmy James, no Jimmy James was the flight engineer.
JT: Marlow. He was one of two who were married. He was married, a lovely wife, a young lady. He’d just got married and she came with us a couple of times, not on train journeys, elsewhere, and Jimmy, he never came out a lot. He didn’t go on the binge like us so much but he was a great bloke, Jimmy. He, he was the one who worked for the Air Ministry before the war and he wanted to get a commission so it would stand him in good stead when he got demobbed. But he did get it just before we finished, he did get one. He was only a, Robbie Pugh already had one, he was a pilot officer when he joined us.
MC: And your mid upper? That was —
JT: Jock Bryman [?] he was a flight sergeant.
MC: Yeah.
JT: Big Scotsman, a canny lad. [laughter]
MC: You don’t know what he did before the war?
JT: No I haven’t got a clue.
MC: No, no. And in the tail, rear gunner?
JT: Johnny Austin, but I don’t know what he did before the war but he got frostbite and he was invalided out of the RAF, Johnny Austin was. We had a spare gunner for a couple of trips, I think.
MC: Did you, [unclear] did you know much about 50 Squadron when you were posted there? Had they told you much? Did you know of it?
JT: No, I didn’t know anything about it at all. Not the slightest, no. It was a good squadron, and I’ll tell you what, we had a good mob.
MC: Hm. [pause] Yeah, as I say, you talked about your birthday, and so your raid on your birthday was that railway junction.
JT: Yes, well I sort of [unclear]
MC: You couldn’t celebrate it in the air could you eh? Or did you?
JT: No, no, no we didn’t.
MC: [laughter] A successful operation though, um. So you probably, so I mean, it wasn’t um, it wasn’t 16th April you were on operations?
JT: We must have gone down the pub.
MC: So you must have been down the pub.
JT: We would do, yes.
MC: That’s a good excuse, but you didn’t need an excuse in those days.
JT: [laughter] Hardly.
MC: So I mean, if, if I guess you’re looking at your first tour was um, your first operation even was er, was marshalling yards at Tours.
JT: That’s right. I don’t rem — I remember going to the marshalling yards but I don’t know where it was. That’s when I got Jimmy Marlow to try again to get him to look out of the window but he wouldn’t look. He said ‘no fear’.
MC: And then you did the GVC, UVC marshalling yards, you did lots of the marshalling yards?
JT: That’s right. [noise of door closing]
MC: Even Paris, even, your third trip was to Paris.
JT: I don’t remember that.
MC: Marshalling again, marshalling yards.
OTHER: There you go, that was, was that leaflet dropping you were saying you were doing at the time? That’s the one, that‘s the Paris trip.
JT: Paris, yeah.
OTHER: ‘Cos you went from [unclear] Paris and then you went, started, you seemed to go to Germany and Munich.
JT: [unclear]
OTHER: [unclear]
JT: But I was in the Ruhr Valley.
MC: You went to Cologne?
JT: Oh yes and somewhere else, I forget.
MC: Cologne and —
JT: Two or three trips to the Ruhr Valley. Yep, they were always a bit hairy.
MC: Yeah, because of low level defence —
JT: The thing was you’ve got a battery of searchlights and the second you got near to them, the searchlights were on you and you were dodging the searchlights all the way through.
MC: Did you, I mean did you get hit, you never got hit any time by flak?
JT: Sorry?
MC: Did you get hit any time by flak?
JT: I think we did but err, nothing to, well nothing to put us off keeping going.
MC: Yeah.
JT: Although that was, always took the length of the runway. According to the skipper you had to hold it down to make it, take itself off.
MC: It took a while to get off with a full load?
JT: It did yeah.
OTHER: So that would have been, you know especially if you had long trips, with a full fuel load as well.
JT: That’s right he would hold it down to the end of the runway to make it fight to get off, yeah.
OTHER: Is this a —
JT: Poor old Johnny who was in the rear turret was wondering when he was going to leave the deck. [laughter]
MC: Were there many times when you came back —
JT: Yes we did get a recall once.
MC: You had to bring the bomb load back?
JT: . We had to go out to the North Sea, there was a dumping area out in the North Sea, we used to have to go and dump them there and we’d say ‘ah flippin’ heck’. Or sometimes you’d get a hang up with a bomb and in theory you still had to go out to the North Sea but in honesty, disconnect the camera, get rid of it [laughter]. We didn’t do it that way, we did go sometimes but sometimes we didn’t.
MC: What sort of dumping area, you dumped it elsewhere?
JT: We’d just disconnect the camera, pull the toggle and away we’d go [laughter]and put the camera back on [laughter] get a picture of cloud.
MC: Yeah, yeah [laughter] So did you have to bring many bomb loads back did you?
JT: Sorry?
MC: Did you have to bring many loads back or was there —
JT: We never brought one back, only, we dumped one but we never ever brought any back.
MC: Oh you always dumped them?
JT: Yeah, yeah.
MC: What sort of bomb load was it you were carrying?
JT: Probably thousand pounders, [unclear] in cans. Four thousand pounders with cans.
MC: Four thousand.
JT: Four thousand pounders with the cans, well, a load of thousand pounders with the, oh bloody hell what are they called, not flares. Oh I can’t think.
MC: Incendiaries?
JT: What you say?
MC: Incendiaries?
JT: That’s right.
MC: Yeah, yeah and were there many mishaps, did you experience any mishaps?
JT: Pardon?
MC: Did you experience any mishaps at Skellingthorpe while you were there you know?
JT: No we didn’t actually, we didn’t get any hang ups, no.
MC: No, I meant did you have any accidents at Skellingthorpe or anything like that?
JT: Aahh, not that I can recall.
MC: So what did you personally think about the bombing raids then, about the —
JT: I thought they were a great success really.
MC: Yeah. And the morality of it, what did you think about that?
JT: I think Bomber Harris had it right. The only thing was he put a raid on once, I think Winston Churchill insisted and they lost a lot of aircraft that night but err, I thought they did a good job.
MC: Were you on that raid?
JT: No.
OTHER : That would be Nuremburg?
JT: Yep, That’s ninety six or ninety five.
MC: Yeah.
JT: Yeah, well that wasn’t going to go ahead but Churchill insisted that it did and we lost ninety six aircraft that night.
MC: Hmm, yeah.
JT: I mightn’t have been here now. [laughter]
MC: You didn’t do Dresden then?
JT: We’d finished.
MC: What did you think about Dresden then, you were aware of the Dresden raid?
JT: Well, it’s hard to say really. We never had to encounter the problems they had when they got there so we don’t know. I mean they said it was a walkover[?] for them. In fact a pal of mine who was a navigator in another squadron said he didn’t like, he regretted it said he was ashamed of going there but having said that and he came back but some people didn’t so it’s all right talking if you got back. Yeah. That was Ken Boxon, [?] Ken went to Dresden yeah.
MC: So what did you think about the way Harris was treated after the war?
JT: Sorry?
MC: What did you think about the way that Harris was treated after the war?
JT: I thought he had a very despicable treatment. I think for what he did during the war I think it was a crying shame. If it hadn’t been for him Bomber Command wouldn’t have been the force they were, I thought he was great.
MC: Good for Bomber Command.
JT: Absolutely, he was yeah, Butcher Harris. [laughter] But he didn’t get the justice he deserved.
MC: Yeah. And did you get your clasp, Bomber Command Clasp?
JT: Yes.
MC: You did get your clasp?
JT: I don’t think it’s worth a light. Little tiny thing, not worth a light. I don’t know why they bothered to make it to be honest. I think I brought it with me.
BT: In the box is it? Is that the one?
MC: So, yeah you did apply for your clasp and you got it. That’s um —
JT: No it’s not there.
MC: You said there was a lady at the end of the runway. She used to wave you off.
JT: Sure, she did. She came down, she’d wait for us to come back. She was the lady who used to treat us to coffee. She was the lady who gave me coffee that night when they called us in from Lincoln to go on ops.
MC: What was her name?
JT: Mrs Cook.
MC: Mrs Cook.
JT: Mrs Cook. She was a lovely lady and she’d come down and stand at the end of the runway and she would wait until we got back to the air traffic tower. She was lovely, really was.
MC: I suppose there would have been a few people waving you off?
JT: Sorry?
MC: I suppose there would have been a few people waving you off at the end of the runway?
JT: There were, that’s right there were, but she never, she never missed a trip that we were on, no.
MC: So did you mingle with the other crews much during the day?
JT: Well we did obviously but when we to, we had specialist briefing, nav briefing, WOP briefing, pilot briefing, but then, but at night you did OK, I mean we’ve got, if they were in the pub, the same pub as we were we’d mix in there but we never had, we had our own gang.
MC: Were you very conscious of the losses? I mean you know, were you aware of some of the aircraft that didn’t return?
JT: Well, the thing was, the following day there were empty beds. This was it.
BT: Yeah.
JT: That’s when you knew how many had been lost.
MC: Hmm. But it was never you.
JT: No. When you lose five out of eleven that’s a lot of [unclear]. We were, we were always there. We was very lucky.
MC: Is that what you put it down to?
JT: Yeah, it was luck, pure luck.
MC: And the skill of the skipper.
JT: And Dougie Milligan’s skill. Yep, yeah. He was [emphasis] skilful. When he got back he used to get, he got reprimanded once for taking his time coming in to land. He always complied with the instructions [background noise] for landing. Other air traffic come back ‘cos they went before him and they used to play hell about the, but Dougie never did, he always complied with them. [background noise]. The rules of landing. He was a good skipper.
MC: Which contributed to your success.
JT: Oh he did, without a doubt, yeah.
MC: So when you got your medals after the war did you? When did you get, collect your medals, did you apply for them straight away or —
JT: Ah. Did I? I can’t remember now whether in fact they —
MC: So what medals have you got?
JT: I’ve got the France & Germany, the Aircrew Europe, the Victory Medal and another but I don’t know what it is.
BT: Have you got them there John?
JT: They’re there somewhere.
OTHER: They’re in your blazer pocket.
JT: Ahh.
MC: Yeah, I was just asking you know about your medals, what you’ve, when you got them?
JT: I’ve got the Aircrew Medal at the end of it as well. I still put that on.
MC: Yeah. Then you’ll be err, France & Germany Star?
JT: France & Germany.
MC: That’s the one, I think it’s, that’s the one the clasp goes on.
JT: I don’t know, I don’t, didn’t go on, I never put it on anywhere. And then the Aircrew Europe.
MC: Yep.
JT: And then the Victory Medal and then err, I think I’ve forgotten what the other was. There’s certainly four of them. [unclear]
OTHER: No, no.
MC: So when you —
OTHER: They apologised to him.
MC: Talking about America, going back to when you were flying in America.
JT: That’s right.
MC: You say you flew in formation?
JT: Twelve Lancs in formation. Oh we were tight, it was a tight form, I could look out of my Astrodome and see the bloke in the next jar alongside me and we did that in tight formation over America. When we got to Army Air Corps Day the Yanks had three Superforts in formation. They were miles [emphasis] apart, they were absolute bloody rubbish and the commentator said ‘Ladies and gentlemen, don’t you think this is the best bit of formation flying you’ve seen today?’ and he had to apologise for it. Yeah.
MC: You’ve obviously [laughter]
JT: Three miserable bloody Superforts.
MC: You had twelve in tight formation?
JT: Twelve in tight formation.
MC: So you saw a fair bit of America then did you?
JT: Oh yeah we did.
MC: Whereabouts did you get to then?
JT: We started off at New York and Wash —, um, down to down south, oh I forget where it was and then we went to Hollywood, that area and then we went to Texas and we came back to Washington and somewhere else on the coast and then back to err, New York.
MC: So you flew the Lancs across did you?
JT: Oh yeah.
MC: You flew all twelve?
JT: Twelve yeah.
MC: Twelve Lancs across —
JT: That’s right. We stopped off in the middle of the Azores. We had to land in the Azores to refuel.
MC: The Azores?
JT: Yeah. And then we carried on from there to the States and one of our lads nearly wrote the Reception Committee off. He came up too tightly on the front and he had to pull up and the Reception Committee were lying on the deck [laughter] yeah.
MC: You got a good welcome from the Americans then?
JT: We got a wonderful, wonderful welcome, incredible. Really did. But err, I wouldn’t have liked to stay there. Having been born there I wouldn’t go back there, no, no.
MC: Yeah, well, whereabouts were you born?
JT: Helena, Montana.
MC: You did say, yes.
JT: That’s right, yeah. [pause]
BT: We’ve been over there.
JT: Ken and Al have taken me back there and Beryl —
BT: And me.
JT: All the four of us went. They took us over there.
MC: You [unclear] you back yeah.
JT: When did we go?
OTHER: We went on your 80th.
OTHER: Yeah, yep, just as, well I’ll tell you when it was because we stood under the Twin Towers and three months later they weren’t there.
JT: That’s right.
OTHER: They were —
BT: That’s right.
JT: We beat a path between the Twin Towers.
MC: What’s this?
JT: Flying Fortress, fifty thousand feet, bags of ammunition and a teeny weeny bomb.
[laughter]
OTHER: That’s what they said about the Yanks because they were flying so high [unclear]
JT: [unclear] little tiny bomb and we had a four thousand pounder on and a load of ammo. [laughter] In fact we took a crew one night with us and they couldn’t believe it before we got off and where we were going how much bomb, how many bombs we’d got on board. They could not believe it. They did just one trip with us, only one, that was it.
MC: This was on an operation was it, you took a —
JT: Oh yeah.
MC: You took an American —
JT: Took the Yanks one night, I think we took three of the crew [sound of door closing] on the rear gun, one by the skip and one alongside the nav and me. They couldn’t believe where we were going and what load we’d got on. Yeah.
MC: Amazing. ‘Cos they, they didn’t have such a big bomb load.
JT: Well that’s where this little song came from ‘Fly fly a fortress, fifty thousand feet, bags of ammunition and a teeny weeny bomb’ [laughter]
MC: You did two spells at EHB, that was your, wireless operator?
JT: Wireless operator, yeah.
MC: Yeah.
JT: We went from Blackpool to EHB and then we went back for a refresher later on when I’d done my gunnery course, yeah. EHB.
MC: So at that time, there was, what was the living accommodation?
JT: When I went the first time I was an AC2, when I went back the second time I was a sergeant. [laughter] Different approach altogether.
MC: Absolutely yeah. Well thank you very much John for your time.
JT: It’s been a pleasure
MC: Some interesting stories and err, —
JT: It’s nice to talk to you.
MC: and it’s been great talking to you [emphasis].
JT: Thank you very much.
MC: Thank you very much.
JT: It’s a pleasure.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with John Tait
Creator
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Mike Connock
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-10
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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00:42:42 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ATaitJT160610
Conforms To
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Pending review
Description
An account of the resource
John Tait was prompted to join the Royal Air Force, as he was American by birth and therefore he had to report to the police station once a month because he was considered an ‘alien’. He was a wireless operator and gunner, flying in Ansons, Wellingtons, Stirlings and Lancasters. He was based at RAF Skellingthorpe, enjoying the social life in and around Lincoln, flying bombing operations over the Ruhr Valley as well as various marshalling yards in France. At the end of the war he joined 35 Squadron who flew Lancasters in formation both in the UK and the USA. He was on the first aircraft that was allowed to fly over the White House after the war.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
Wales
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
Wales--Bridgend
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Contributor
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Tina James
35 Squadron
50 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
entertainment
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
military living conditions
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Padgate
RAF Scampton
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Stormy Down
searchlight
Stirling
training
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/16/6136/AAtkinsonA150623.2.mp3
194d2829b0981bb39f112129e533bbe5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Atkinson, Arthur
Arthur Atkinson
A Atkinson
Description
An account of the resource
Seven items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Arthur Atkinson (1922 - 2020, 1042303 Royal Air Force) his log book, service material and two photographs. Arthur Atkinson trained as a wireless operator and spent eighteen months at RAF Ringway before being flying 34 operations with 61 Squadron from RAF Coningsby and RAF Skellingthorpe.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Arthur Atkinson and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-23
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Atkinson, A
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
MC: Ok so If you tell us about when and where you were born, and then go on from there.
AA: Yeah, I was born in Lancaster in Lancashire in 1922, went to a normal school, elementary school then I won a scholarship to the local Grammar school but , we didn’t have a lot of money so I wasn’t able to take up the scholarship so I carried on schooling at the elementary as long as I could and then when I left school, the Headmaster, I was head boy in the school by the time I left, and the headmaster got me a job at the local accountant, which was fine but in those days five shillings didn’t go a long way. So, in no time at all I had to leave there and got a job with the local coop behind the counter which I hated, I hated it from the first day and I decided then and there as soon as I was old enough I would join the RAF. That was my ambition I’d had one flight in an Avro 504 the open cockpit type with a local chap that came and that set me off I volunteered for the Royal Air Force as wireless operator, I always wanted to be a wireless operator and got my number at pad Gate I was accepted I got my number but unfortunately, they sent me home for deferred service which didn’t suit me at all. I was home for about six months and at the end of six months I was so fed up I wrote a letter to the Air ministry, saying “have you forgotten me?” and a week later my papers came. Then I reported to Blackpool to the initial training wing and wireless school, did my wireless training over Woolworth’s in Blackpool and then down to Compton Bassett to finish off with and when I qualified as a wireless operator I was posted to Ringway airport Manchester which then was RAF Ringway doing ground wireless operating duties there for about eighteen months until I was put under draft to go overseas as a ground wireless operator. Well a friend of mine on the same draft said “this isn’t good enough”, we were both waiting for aircrew training by then, so I went on embarkation leave, he went to see the CO and said “look you know this isn’t playing the game” so the CO agreed with him, and when I came back from leave embarkation leave found I’d been taken off the draft, and in a short while I was posted down to Yatesbury on a refresher course then went through the usual mill of flying training at Yatesbury.
MC: What sort of aircraft were you flying in?
AA: Proctor’s, little Proctor’s, Dominie, to start with then little Proctor’s then I did an EFU at Boddington near to Ha’penny Green then gunnery course down at Stormy Down in Wales. Then I finally qualified at the Operational training unit at Market Harborough and was crewed up by self-selection, I saw a pilot walking along and I liked the look of him and asked him if he wanted a wireless operator and did, he had a Bomb aimer, asked me if I knew any gunners which I did, and eventually we crewed up. Went through the training and finally posted to Coningsby 61 squadron.
MC: Who was your skipper and crew then?
AA: Bob Acott, Basil. M. Acott but we called him Bob. The only thing was that we hadn’t had leave for ages and they said you can’t go on leave until you’ve done at least one operation with the squadron but unfortunately before we went on Ops we had to a couple of cross countries and unfortunately our navigator suffered from airsickness and every time we took off he was ill so this delayed us somewhat and we were not very happy about it anyway eventually they swapped him for another navigator Dickie Ward he was a good lad, and we were put on the list to go to Stuttgart our first op. This was a disaster completely from start to finish. We took off, we hadn’t been flying long and it was fairly obvious our DR compass wasn’t working properly, anyway we pressed on and it was our first trip it was a press on type anyway after hours and hours it seemed to me we didn’t find Stuttgart we found a glowing under a cloud, a red glow in some clouds and thought this must be it so we unloaded the bombs there which was, whether it was Stuttgart or not I don’t know any way we tried to, we left the bombing area tried to fly back to the UK still wondering all over the place with this DR compass which wasn’t working properly we hadn’t flown long before bomb aimer checked the bombays and found a thousand pound bomb had been hung up so we opened the doors and we let that go I don’t know who got it but we were over Germany so it didn’t really matter a lot, we carried on flying wandering all over Europe I should think and after ages and ages the rear gunner said he thought he saw the coastline underneath, well that’s great so approximate course to England we kept flying and flying and nothing happened and a bit later on he spoke up and said “I’m sorry skipper, I was wrong the first time I can clearly see the coast below now” so then the skipper said, “well that’s alright but I don’t think we’ve got enough fuel to get across the Channel now” so he said “I’ll tell you what…” he got on to all of the crew and he said “we've got to make a decision, you can either bail out, in which case you would be prisoners of war, or we can try cross, get across the channel and if necessary we will have to ditch, what do you want to do?” universal decision we'll try and get across the channel so off we went over ten tenths cloud we flew on and we flew on but nothing was happening then suddenly through a break in the clouds we saw a beacon flashing now I couldn’t establish where it was, and all this time I’d been trying to get my radio set to work to find out where we were unfortunately every time I wound out my trailing aerial it was shorting out and I couldn’t get any power on the transmitter and very little on the receiver. So anyway we got to this beacon and the skipper flew round and round it and said “we’ve got another decision to make” the first decision wasn’t a good one but anyway we had found this beacon and we flew round it and he said “the only thing is, if it’s a land marker you can bail out but if it’s a sea marker you’ll drown, on the other hand if I decide to ditch the aircraft thinking it’s a sea marker, and it’s a land marker there’s going to be one hell of a bang” so anyway flying around this beacon trying to make our minds up suddenly an airfield lit up beneath us and there it was full runways, perimeter the lot marvellous we’ll land there so we went round to land wheels down, wheels wouldn’t come down, bomb aimer tried the flaps, the flaps wouldn’t work so we overshot. We came round again and this time we blew the wheels down with a compressed air tank that was behind my head in the wireless compartment and they fortunately came down and locked and with the flight engineer pumping like mad on the flaps he managed to hit the ground and roll along Well I went to the back of the aircraft open the door and I saw a chap on a bicycle with a blue torch and I said “aye mate where’s this then?” and he said “Westonzoyland “, I thought what the hell we have landed in Holland it sounded Dutch to me “Westonzoyland!” I said, “where’s that?”, he said “Somerset”. So, there we were got some sort of transport went to the Flying control tower saw the chap that had put the lights on and he said, “the first time you went and you didn’t land, I put my hand out to switch off the lights off again but I thought I’d give them one more chance”. It’s a good job he did, so we thanked, we ran to and thanked the beacon crew because I had been firing red, red greens the pilot had been saying ‘hello darkie this is spot null tear calling darkie’. Flashing the nose light SOS doing all sorts while we circle this beacon, when we went to the flying control we saw a Warrant officer in charge of the signal flight who’d been to the mess for a couple of mugs of tea for him and the WAAF that was working on the radio set, as he came through the door with the two mugs of tea, there was the WAAF under the bench unconscious; the same thing had happened about a fortnight before and an aircraft had called up in distress and then they hadn’t been able to contact it, gone across the Bristol channel crashed into the Welsh mountains , now she thought she was listening to a ghost when she heard us so she passed out under the bench so she was a lot of help. But anyway, it all worked out very nicely, but we had to stay down there for three days while they flew ground crews down from Coningsby to fix the aircraft everything was wrong with it, took them three days to fix it then we went back to Coningsby and then we went on leave. Now in some ways Harry our navigator, this sick navigator saved our lives because while we were on leave they did the Nuremberg raid and the Berlin raid and lost 95 aircraft as you know, so that was very fortunate. After that we carried on and did another thirty three ops, I think it was and then we finally finished our tour of ops, I was posted down to 17 OTU Silverstone as an instructor and stayed there until I was de-mobbed in 1946.
MC: So, you did thirty four ops, more than normal?
AA: Yes, but that was because some bright spark decided that French targets it’s easier than German targets so you had to do three French targets to count as one operation. That’s why it’s got the thirty three, thirty four.
MC: So, you did a few daylight raids?
AA: Yeah, we did about three daylight raids I think but I didn’t believe this business about being easier, because one night my crew, were stood down and the wireless operator in S-sugar was sick so I was told to fly with them. Pilot officer Hallet In S-Sugar so we took off, well after the briefing I was quite pleased in a way that I’d been put with this crew, because it was ten minutes over France flying bomb sites but this was a doddle so off we went got to this flying bomb site just across the channel no flack just lots and lots of searchlights and fighters circling round the outside waiting for us and as we went into bomb they were attacking us three at a time, I have never corkscrewed so hard in my life as I did with Hallet. But anyway, before we had taken off on the ops I was talking to a couple of chaps and the crew wasn’t with me, I was talking to two wireless operators , well three actually Kemish, Donahue, Sutton there was four of us talking and when I came back from the ten minutes over France, Kemish and Donoghue were no longer there, I think there was twenty two aircraft lost on that ten minutes and two were from our squadron and both of them wireless operators, I was chatting to them before we took off, so that was that anyway apart from the normal flying after that there wasn’t a great lot to talk about . I remember one occasion when I was working on the set, suddenly there was a brilliant white flash and I wondered what the hell it was it was like daylight in the cockpit I jumped up on the step stuck my head out the astrodome just in time to see a wing sailing past with two engines on it, and the propellers going round. An aircraft had blown up just in front of us, and the skipper pulling back on the stick trying to miss it so we didn’t hit the damn thing, anyway apart from that I think the rest of their trips were fairly quiet .
MC: So, were most of these daytime raids were following the invasion?
AA: That’s right, yeah, I can show you if you like?
MC: So, this is your logbook?
AA: Yeah.
MC: Its very neat!
AA: Yeah, there’s not a lot in it, I think about eight German targets, and the rest were French but as I said they weren’t as easy as they said they were and eventually of course they rescinded that.
MC: So most of them were fairly uneventful, apart from the ones you told me about?
AA: That's right. Yeah.
MC: So, following the operations you did where did you go then …. what did you do then following when you finished your ops?
AA: Well as I said I went down to 17 OTU at Silverstone and was there until I was demobbed in 46.
MC: Yeah, so your first flight obviously was err….
AA: Traumatic!
MC: Traumatic to say the least even though you didn’t meet any enemy action, during your other operations did you come across any other…you must have come across flack?
AA: Well we saw the flack, it didn’t bother me much it was quite interesting in daylight black puffs it looked very harmless you know it didn’t look dangerous at all. That was my air force career yeah.
MC: So, what happened, so then you did, you did your 19 RFS?
AA: After the war I joined the RAF volunteer reserve because I still couldn’t get the RAF feeling that I liked, I loved being in the RAF to be honest so I joined the RAFVR and used to go down at weekends first to Liverpool, at Liverpool and then we were over at Oulton Park the other side of Birkenhead then finished up at Woodvale, Southport flying at weekends then back to work as a civilian on Monday morning, a fortnights camping every year and that was great until it finally packed up in about 1952 I think round about then. So, then I joined Blackpool Gliding club and got a glider pilots licence just to keep flying and then when that packed up the next flying I did was on the back of my son’s microlight. We bought a microlight aircraft between us, he got the pilot’s licence and I just sat in the back flying around Coningsby, again. When the squadron moved across from Coningsby back from Skellingthorpe we were detailed to fly the aircraft but lot of stuff came by road when we landed we were given a dispersal for the aircraft I left my flying boots at the back near the Elsan and when we had lunch and came back to the aircraft my boots had gone so somebody helped himself, I went to the stores to see if I could get a spare pair and he said “What! I can’t let you have any more flying boots what if you don’t come back from an op I will be one pair of boots short”, which I didn’t like the attitude there so I wouldn’t buy them, he said I could get them on the 664b and I could pay for them, so I thought I’m not damn well paying for them. Just as well id done because when I was demobbed I had to pay for them, six guineas I think.
MC: So, you were demobbed in when? When were you demobbed?
AA: In ‘46’ Whitsontide ?
MC: What did you do after the war then?
AA: I went back to my old job for just six months, oh I’ve got a procession of jobs now and then I went to for work for the Associate of British cinemas as an assistant cinema manager, well a trainee to start with I stuck that for a couple of years and then I left there and went, I was married by then with a son and digs were hard to find so when the area manager came to see me , well first of all I was at Barrow in Furness as assistant cinema manager then I was transferred back to my home town of Lancaster then he came in one day and said “we are transferring you to the Regal Rochdale” and I thought well no you’re not, finding digs was difficult, I packed the job in and went to work for the Shell Oil company down at the Heysham Refinery in the materials office and unfortunately after a while there was a clash of personalities between me and the materials superintendent so I left there, got a job managing a shop in Morecambe seaside town selling pottery, glass wear and fancy goods, and looking out the window I saw all these salesmen coming past in their cars and I thought that looks like a good life much more interesting than this. So, when a chap came in selling me paper, wrapping paper and paper bags and things, or trying to I mentioned to him, and he said, “well come and work for me”, so I did and I stuck that for a couple of years. But I soon found out that being a salesman on the road wasn’t as good as it looked it was hard, hard work you’d have a good week one week and you couldn’t go wrong, the week after you couldn’t sell a thing, no it wasn’t good at all. So, I scanned the local paper and saw a job advertised at the North-west electricity board in the offices so I applied and got the job; in fact, I got two jobs at the same time. One was a job at the what was it…. the aircraft factory Lostock near Bolton I’ve forgotten the name of the aircraft now, well anyway that was one job and I also got the North-west electricity job as well. One would have meant changing home again so I stopped in Lancaster and took the electricity board job and I worked there for eight years until I got bored. I worked first of all on the cash desk as a cashier and then debt collecting and doing all sorts of things. Then I moved into the offices because it looked more in my line in the records office but I then found that I only had three day’s work on a five-day week, so for two days I was scratching around with looking for something to do and I soon got bored with that. So I applied again to the civil service and to NAAFI I saw an advert for NAAFI so the civil service said I could be taken on as a temporary employee it would take some time to become permanent but the NAAFI sent me a railway warrant to come down and see them which I did and of course because I’d worked initially in the Coop as a grocer I knew a little bit about it and then I’d managed the shop in Morecambe as a shop manager they offered me a job as a NAAFI shop manager and I asked could I go to Germany and they said yes we can send you to Germany but your wife will have to stay behind because we can’t accommodate her, I said in that case it’s no good to me, so the chap who was interviewing me said, “well would you be interested in going further afield, in which case your wife could join you ?” I said, “well yes I would” my ears pricked up then and he mentioned North Africa so I thought yes that will do for me, so I signed on there and then went back home, gave my notice in to the electricity board and on the appointed date went down to London, London Airport first day with the NAAFI London Airport flying out to North Africa. So, they sent me fortunately to Casto Benito known as RAF Idris. There was a little family shop there on an RAF station which suited me down to the ground I became an honorary member of the Sergeants mess, and I was in my element there was Air Force all around me but I didn’t have to take any orders because I was civilian and that was fine I was there three year, I had a three year contract I came back to the UK in 1964 , sent me on leave and I stayed on leave and the weeks went by and the months went by and I was still on leave but my salary was being paid into the bank so I wasn’t too concerned . Anyway, suddenly one Friday about four months after I’d being home I got a telegram ‘come down and see us’. So, I went down to see them and apparently two of the officials had been going to lunch and one of them had said “by the way what are you doing with Atkinson?” he said, “well he’s abroad isn’t he?”, “no” he said, “he’s at home on leave.” So that sparked the telegram, when I got down they said would I like to go back to Tripoli again this time to take over the main shop in Tripoli centre which dealt with the Embassy, all the Army, RAF units, any ships coming into Tripoli harbour I dealt with them, so I took the job on and I found it was losing £30 a day was this shop I took over, I didn’t like this so I put measures in to put this right, and in no time at all we were making a profit and this was noted at NAAFI headquarters. So, then it was decided that we would pull out of Tripoli altogether close down, the troops were coming home there were to be no units left in North Africa. So I had to close the shop down and reduce all the stock, close it down came back to the UK went to the headquarters in Peel Court in London for an interview and they said we would like you to attend a board which I did, I didn’t know it at the time but it was a commissioning board for what they called ‘Officials of the Corporation’ because when you became an official you had to be commissioned in the Army as well , on the Army reserve so I thought any how that would do me so I was successfully interviewed particularly with my record of making this shop profitable and they sent me for eighteen months training up and down the country various places, I went down to Plymouth for the ships I went to Scotland for bomb exercise I was all over the place learning about NAAFI official duties and eventually I was qualified and was sent to Anglesey. So, I was on Anglesey for eighteen months and then I got a notification they wanted me to Germany to Bielefeld so I was posted across to Bielefeld for three years.
MC: So, did you have a rank then?
AA: Well the thing is I had a road accident on Anglesey, I stopped my car to post a letter walked across the road and came back and saw a heavy lorry coming towards me so I leaned into the back of my car out of its way and put my foot out and it ran over my foot. Anyway, so when the paper came through with my army commission as a Second Lieutenant in the RASC or logistics core as they call it now, I had to send them back, I said I’m sorry but in view of my injury traversing rough terrain is no good to me because I knew that they sent the district managers on exercise with the Army with the acting rank of Captain in Logistics core, I thought well I can’t wander around hopping about like this to see over NAAFI contingent so as I say I sent the paper back and said I’m sorry that’s it so I didn’t get my commission but I was an honorary Second Lieutenant and when I went to Germany I was given Officers quarters and attended officers Messes and that sort of thing but officially I was a civilian. I did three years in Bielefeld, came back to England posted to Lincolnshire cause my wife came from Boston so this was fine, I spent three years here and then was posted again to Germany to Osnabruck for another three years that was fine I enjoyed that, holidays on the continent down to Italy and all over the place and then came back here again and then in 1982 there was a restructuring programme and all district managers of aged sixty or approaching sixty were dispensed with, but it was a pretty good deal they said that…..I was called down to London most surprised to learn that my service was no longer be required after a certain date when I was sixty in September but that I would get a pension from NAAFI based on the assumption that I reached sixty five which was fair enough so I was retired early at sixty and that was it, and I’ve lived in Lincoln ever since .
MC: I’d just like to go back to your earlier days when you did Air Gunnery training at first didn’t you?
AA: Yes.
MC: Did you, you got your…. so, it was your first brevet?
AA: Yeah that was at Stormy Down.
MC: And you got the Air gunnery brevet.
AA: I did.
MC: And what rank did you get there?
AA: Sergeant.
MC: So, you were Sergeant yeah.
AA: Yeah
MC: So, when you did your Wireless operating training, your brevet changed did it?
AA: Err it was still…. I can’t remember when it changed to be sure, but I know it was changed to an S , Signals but air gunner initially.
MC; That’s brilliant Arthur thank you very much for that. This interview was conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre and the interviewer was Mike Connock and the interviewee was Mr Arthur Atkinson the interview took place at Mr Atkinson’s home in Lincoln on the 23rd June 2015.
AA: Syerston for afternoon tea in Hanson’s and then back to work on a Monday morning.
MC: And this was where?
AA: This was in the volunteer reserve from RAF Woodvale, flying Anson’s. It was great. When I was recalled for my aircraft retraining from RAF Ringway, Manchester I went down at ACRC; Aircrew recruiting centre in London for various things one of them of course was a medical and when we had the medical we found that I had a weak left eye so they said “we will have to get you a pair of special goggles with a lens in the left eye”, fair enough, but unfortunately when my Squad was posted on, the goggle hadn’t come back and I had to wait for them so I was kept back one week when I should have been with my original squad. Then my original squad went on and were posted to India on flying boats.
MC: Oh right.
AA: And because I was kept back a week on a different squad, I finished up on Bomber Command, but if I hadn’t finished up on Bomber Command and being posted to Coningsby I wouldn’t have met my wife. [laughs].
MC: Yes, that’s right.
AA: Because one of the first places I went too was the Gliderdrome in Boston dancing. and met her there, and once we’d met we were together for sixty-three years.
MC: Goodness me.
AA: She died in 2007.
MC: So where did you…you obviously went to Coningsby and from Coningsby you moved on to Skellingthorpe?
AA: Skellingthorpe yeah.
MC: That’s where you did the major part of your tour?
AA: I did all my tour at Skellingthorpe yeah.
MC: All your tour at Skellingthorpe yes!
AA: Yes, all the incidents of interest that I can remember on the ground were at Skellingthorpe, apart from losing my flying boots. We had a mid-upper gunner. He was a Canadian and he used to ride around on a bicycle and he finished up, he got bicycles for the whole crew and we all rode around on bicycles, where he got them from we don’t know but he painted his apple green and I was flying, I was riding down to flights one morning with him got to the MP post and the MP pulled him over and asked him where he got his bike from, apple green, he finished up being court martialled but he said he’d been in a pub in Lincoln, he missed the bus back to camp and somebody offered him a bike so he thought better than walking so he said “I bought the bike and cycled back then I found out next morning it was a service bike but I’d paid good money for it so I painted it apple green” and he stuck to it and got away with it. We all in best blues at the court martial ready to give evidence to say what a good bloke he was, including Bob Acott but they only called Bob and the navigator in and he got away with a severe reprimand but they took him off flying while he was under court martial in case he got killed, they could court martial him if he got killed [laughs] but he was a good lad.
MC: So, the skipper and who, who got the awards you say?
AA: Pilot Bob Acott got the DFC, and Trevor Ward, Ken wrote a book about he got the DFC.
MC: Oh yeah, yeah
AA: Oh dear, we told Ken about the episodes when we one a flew across country to Scotland and our flight engineer Bob, Bill Rudd said to Bob, we were at 20,000 feet on across country one of these two cross countries that were before we went on ops, and Bill Rudd said to Bob “Bob, if you get injured when we’re flying over Germany, you know you’re damaged in any way, who’s going to bring the aircraft back?”. Bob said, “well I haven’t given it a lot of thought really.” He said, ‘Well I think I should!’ He was like that Bill was, so Bob said, “all right fair enough, you can if you like.” He said, “in that case I should have a go at flying it, shouldn’t I?” So, Bob Acott policeman steady said, “you’ve got a good point there.” So, the two of them changed seats at 20,000 feet, then the aircraft stalled it just fell out the sky with the flight engineer in the pilot seat, you know the only left-hand control in a Lanc. Oh god, I clipped my chute on, whether this is what finished the navigator I don’t know, he clipped his chute on, I said “which way are we going out”. I said, “well we can’t go out the front because these two silly buggers are trying to change seats again” [laughs]. Of course, in the back of your mind there’s always that instruction ‘you do not leave the aircraft without the Pilots instruction’ but I thought he’s in no position to instruct anyway, every time they got it in a level keel pushing the stick forward, you know, it stalled again and it kept coming down and we were coming down like a falling leaf. Anyway, they finally changed seats then the flight engineer was running up and down the aircraft finding what had gone wrong, when we found out what had gone wrong it was the trimming tabs on the elevator he’d kicked them as they were changing seats again in, up so that…. Oh dear. And Bill Rudd the same flight engineer he had a chop WAAF, he waved to this WAAF every time he took off, then one time he was waving to her, and waving to her stretching his head round to wave to her and his intercom plug came out as we were tearing down the runway, to take off, so when Bob Acott said ‘full power’, nothing happened Bill wasn’t on intercom we had a full bomb load so I heard him say’ full power’ and eventually he took his, he had to leave belting…we just staggered off Doddington Road end. Bill Rudd, another time on importance we were diverted to Ford, or Tranmere as the sea approached the runway instead of putting full flap down, he took flap off and I could swear the props hit the sea, oh that was our flying. This chap was posted to our crew at Winthorpe and we very soon realised a little bit, not very good we said to Bob, we should get rid of him Bob, this chaps not, well somebody’s got to take it. But he’d been thrown out from the previous crew he’d being in, they’d wised him up and got rid of him. Bob Acott wouldn’t
MC: So, you were always having to compensate for him?
AA: He should have got a medal, the Iron Cross, First Class, he did his dam to kill us [laughs] but we even survived Bill Rudd, I hope that’s not on tape.
MC: It is, [laughs]
AA: Oh dear, a bit of a lad. I saw him later on in the war, I’d been down to Boston with the wife because she came from Boston and I was in Lancaster, I’d driven down in the car and on the way back we were diverted through Harrogate that’s where he lived and I thought he was so keen a medal, was Bill he wanted to climb in the wing and put the engine fire out with a fire extinguisher and stuff like that. Anyway, I suddenly saw a big board and it said, ‘W. Rudd Demolition Contractor’ and I thought this is too much of a coincidence, so I took the address and followed it round and there he was in the garden digging his garden with a …talking to a chap at the same time, I said “Hello Bill, how’s it going? “He, looked at me, he didn’t know, he hadn’t a clue who I was till I provided him what had happened, oh dear that was the only time I saw him. But Dougie May our bomb aimer, I suddenly decided Dougie and me got on very well so I suddenly decided I’d like to see him again if I could so I got the telephone directory out and looked through all the names in Birmingham, he lived in Birmingham and the first one I tried it was his wife answered I said “I’m looking for a chap called Douglas May that served in Bomber Command during the war”, she said “yes, my husband did”, I said “well just go and ask if he remembers Acott’s shower” so that’s exactly what she said, and he was back on the phone in two seconds, went down to see him and I had him and his wife staying here in this house when the memorial was opened we went and I’ve got a video of us marching, the first march we ever did when the memorial was opened, but unfortunately he’s died since.
MC: Did you get to see any of the other crew, the skipper and that did you meet up?
AA: No I didn’t unfortunately no, because we all went to different, I was posted to Silverstone, I know Bob Acott went down to Swinderby, Dougie went somewhere in London I don’t know where the hell he went and of course Trevor Bowyer left us after twenty ops because it was his second tour, and I don’t know what happened to the mid-upper, Al Bryant after his court martial because he didn’t fly with us again.
MC: Oh, didn’t he?
AA: No. presumably went back to Canada, but Dougie was the only one that I met.
MC: So where was the skipper from?
AA: The skipper was from London, he was on the Metropolitan Police. Anyway, I never offered you a cup of tea.
MC: Oh no, you are alright thank you. Thanks lovely thank you Arthur.
AA: So that’s all right then!
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Arthur Atkinson
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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AAtkinsonA150623
Creator
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Mike Connock
Date
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2015-06-23
Format
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00:40:54 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
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Pending review
Contributor
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Carmel Dammes
Description
An account of the resource
Arthur Atkinson was born in Lancaster, and worked in the local Co-Op until he joined the Royal Air Force. He trained as a wireless operator and served at RAF Ringway before being posted to RAF Coningsby and later RAF Skellingthorpe with 61 Squadron. His first operation to Stuttgart was a disaster when the compass failed to work and they landed at RAF Westonzoyland. Over all he completed three daylight and 31 night time operations. He met his wife while in Lincolnshire. After he was de-mobbed he continued to travel with the Royal Air Force as a civilian managing Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes. He also continued his love of flying, joining various flying schools and eventually buying a microlight with his son and flying around Coningsby again. Arthur settled in Lincoln after retiring.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Wales
England--Lincolnshire
England--Somerset
Germany--Stuttgart
Wales--Bridgend
61 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
crewing up
Dominie
Navy, Army and Air Force Institute
Proctor
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Coningsby
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Ringway
RAF Silverstone
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Weston Zoyland
RAF Yatesbury
training
wireless operator
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Wales--Bridgend
Title
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Bridgend [place]
Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr
Description
An account of the resource
This page is an entry point for a place. Please use the links below to see all relevant documents available in the Archive.
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/474/8381/MClydeSmithD39856-160919-04.2.pdf
f7527bdcc9b68b15110a25b101935993
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Clyde-Smith, Denis
Clyde-Smith, D
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains 26 items and concerns Squadron Leader Denis Clyde-Smith Distinguished Service Order, Distinguished Flying Cross, who joined the Royal Air Force and trained as a pilot in 1937. He flew in the anti aircraft cooperation role including remotely piloted Queen Bee aircraft before serving on Battle aircraft on 32 Squadron. He completed operational tours on Wellington with 115 and 218 Squadrons and Wellington and Lancaster with 9 Squadron after which he went to the aircraft and armament experimental establishment at Boscombe Down. The collection consists of two logbooks, aircraft histories of some of the aircraft he flew, photographs of people and aircraft, newspaper articles and gallantry award certificate.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Clyde-Smith and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-19
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Clyde-Smith, D
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
The enclosed aircraft histories are all in respect of Tiger Moth aircraft flown by you while undergoing ab-initio training at Sywell. I have commenced the breakdown of their service life as from the date of their impressment into RAF service. However, prior to this, the Tigers in question were operated under a Type ‘A’ Civil Contract which was put into use under the Expansion Scheme of the 1930 era. Then on the 30th of November, 1939, the Air Ministry took over command and RAF roundels were applied to the Tigers, although their civil markings were retained until 1940/41. The Tigers at Sywell were impressed under two Contracts, each issued on the 17th of September, 1940, as follows:
BB693-706 allocated to 6 E.F.T.S. under Contract No. All3015/40 dtd 17/9/40.
BB788-793 allocated to 6 E.F.T.S. under Contract No. All3015/40 (2nd part)
G-ADGF c/n 3345 impressed as BB704
Used at Sywell until 9/8/42, when it was transferred to 10 OUT at Abingdon. Released to 6 MU Brize Norton on the 9th of February, 1943, and later issued to 16 E.F.T.S. Burnaston. Here BB704 was coded ‘7’ later taking the code FIP:A (the four letter codes were issued to Flying Training Command, circa 1945/46). On 31/7/46, BB704 was flown to 9 MU Cosford, and stored until released to 21 E.F.T.S. Booker (near High Wycombe) on 25/3/48. Coded FIW:O, BB704 remained with 21 E.F.T.S. until transfer to 7 F.T.S. Cottesmore on 30/3/50. On June 19th of the same year it was transferred to Station Flight, Feltwell, taking the code ‘W’. However, it’s active use was now rapidly drawing to a close, and on 30/11/50, it was allocated the instructional airframe serial 6805M and delivered to No. 664 ATC Squadron, St. Walter & St. John’s Godalming County School (Surrey Wing).
[page break]
G-ADGG c/n 3346 impressed as BB695
Used at Sywell throughout it’s entire career and was destroyed in a landing accident on 12/5/41.
G-ADGT c/n 3338 impressed as BB697
Continued in use at Sywell until transfer to 26 E.F.T.S. Theale on, 15/7/42. Coded B26, BB697 remained in use at Theale until it was released to store at 12 MU Kirkbridge on 18/7/45. It’s next move was overseas to Germany and 652 Squadron where it served from 17/10/45 to 9/5/46. Following a year spent at No. 151 Aircraft Repair Unit, BB697 was flown to 5 MU Kemble for disposal.
On 27/8/47, BB697 was sold to a civilian operator, and was restored to the Civil Register, and during the early 1960’s it was still in use, registered to Westwick Distributors, Foulsham.
G-ADGV c/n 3340 impressed as BB694
Used by 6 E.F.T.S. until transfer to 29 E.F.T.S. Clyffe Pypard on 15/7/42. Released to 5 MU Kemble on 14/8/46, BB694 was eventually released to the Royal Navy. In RNAS service BB694 served at Stretton, Lossiemouth, and Arbroath before transfer on 17/11/60, to the Britannia Flight at Roborough (Plymouth).
G-ADGW c/n 3341 impressed as BB706
Sevred at Sywell throughout the war years, and was eventually released to store at 10 MU Hullavington. Struck off Charge on 22/5/50, BB706 was disposed of to W.A. Rollason Ltd., who in turn sold it to the D.H. Technical College for ground instruction purposes.
[page break]
G-ADGX c/n 3342 impressed as BB698
Continued in use at Sywell until 9/8/42, when it was flown to RAF Doncaster. Following a brief spell at Taylorcraft, BB698 was released to 5 MU Kemble on 24/6/43. From Kemble BB698 was transfered [sic] to the Royal Navy and delivered to RNAS Hinstock. Attached to 758 Squadron and later RNAS Lee-on-Solent, BB698 went on to serve with B Flight of 798 Squadron, Station Flight Lee-on-Solent, RNAS Evarton, and 727 Squadron RNAS Gosport, in that order before being sold to the Wiltshire School of Flying on 5/2/51. Restored to the Civil Register it was lost in a crash at Thruxton on 11/7/53, when it’s pilot overshot the airfield.
G-ADGY c/n 3343 impressed as BB699
Served for it’s entire life at Sywell, and was lost in a crash during a low flying exercise near Turvey, Bedfordshire, on 25/7/44, when it struck some power cables.
G-ADGZ c/n 3344 impressed as BB700
Used at Sywell until transfer to 7 A.G.S. Stormy Down on 13/8/42. Delivered to Towyn U.A.S. in 1943, and damaged beyond repair taxing [sic] at RAF Towyn, 10/2/44.
[page break]
G-ADIH c/n 3349 impressed as BB789
While in use at 6 E.F.T.S. BB789 took the code ‘89’. Released to 5 MU Kemble on 9/8/42, and then to RAF Speke on 31/10/42. However, by 6/12/42, BB789 had found it’s way back to 5 MU, where it was eventually converted to an instructional airframe. Bearing the serial 3654M it was delivered to 2006 ATC Squadron at Cheltenham on 2/4/43.
During 1946 this Tiger was handed over – without Air Ministry approval – to the Gloucester Flying Club, who promptly spent £425 in restoring G-ADIH to flying condition, and naturally thought the Tiger their property. However, the Air Ministry then stepped in and requested the return of their aircraft – the matter being eventually settled by a payment by the Gloucester Flying Club of £50 to Air Ministry. G-ADIH remained on the Civil Register until 20/11/52, when it was destroyed during a landing accident near Ramsgate.
G-ADII c/n 3350 impressed as BB701
Served with 6 E.F.T.S. throughout the war years, and was released to 9 MU Cosford on 30/8/46. Remaining in storage until 6/4/49, when it was delivered to 9 R.F.S. Doncaster. Destroyed on 22/4/50, when it spun into a sports field near Hansworth.
G-ADIJ c/n 3351 impressed as BB788
Used at Sywell throughout the war, and taken to 9 MU Cosford on 19/7/45, for disposal. Sold to Marshalls of Cambridge in 4/46, and restored to [crossed out]the the[/crossed out]
[page break]
to/ [sic]
the Civil Register as G-ADIJ. In December 1952 G-ADIJ was sold abroad to New Zealand as ZK-BBS and was converted for crop spraying. Used in this role by Northern Aviation Limited, ZK-BBS was destroyed in a crash near Dargaville on, [sic] 15/12/55.
No details at present for G-ADEZ – may have been lost prior to 1939. Further information on the aircraft that you flew will be passed in due course.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Aircraft histories of Tiger Moth aircraft flown by Denis Clyde-Smith
Description
An account of the resource
Histories of twelve Tiger Moth aircraft flown by Denis Clyde Smith while undergoing ab-initio training at Sywell.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five page typewritten document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MClydeSmithD39856-160919-04
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Navy
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--West Midlands
England--Wolverhampton
England--Lincolnshire
England--Stamford
England--Norfolk
England--Thetford
England--Cumbria
England--Carlisle
England--Berkshire
England--Theale (West Berkshire)
England--Northamptonshire
England--Northampton
England--Buckinghamshire
England--High Wycombe
England--Surrey
England--Godalming
England--Norwich
England--Wiltshire
Scotland--Moray
Scotland--Angus
Scotland--Arbroath
England--Cheshire
England--Warrington
England--Devon
England--Plymouth
England--Yorkshire
England--Doncaster
England--Hampshire
England--Gosport
England--Bedfordshire
England--Bedford
England--Gloucestershire
England--Cheltenham
England--Cirencester
England--Chippenham (Wiltshire)
England--Shropshire
England--Shrewsbury
Scotland--Ross and Cromarty
Scotland--Invergordon
England--Andover
Wales--Mid Glamorgan
Wales--Bridgend
Wales--Dyfed
Wales--Aberystwyth
England--Kent
England--Ramsgate
Germany
New Zealand
New Zealand--Dargaville
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cambridge
England--London
England--Hounslow
England--Cumberland
England--Middlesex
England--Staffordshire
England--Royal Wootton Bassett
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1951
1952
1953
1955
1960
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
Flying Training School
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Clyffe Pypard
RAF Cosford
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Feltwell
RAF Kemble
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Sywell
RAF Towyn
Tiger Moth
training
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/567/8835/AFarrC160524.2.mp3
0341f54adc352871ee6ef3383c67e071
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Farr, Colin
C Farr
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Farr, C
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Colin Farr (Royal Air Force).
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-24
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AS: OK so, okay, I think, I think we’re ready to go now, I think we’re recording. This is ‒, so let’s start. This is Andrew Sandler interviewing Colin Farr at his home in Ilford ‒
CF: In Essex.
AS: On the ‒, is it 24th of May 2016?
CF: Yes.
AS: Can we start off Colin, by asking you how you got involved in the RAF in the first place?
CF: Well, I was working as a youngster in a wholesale warehouse, and as soon as I knew the war was coming, I didn’t tell my parents anything about it, I just went straight, because I had my leg in a plaster down my knee to my ankle because I’d fallen down the stairs in the warehouse I was working in ‒, right opposite ‒, oh dear, St Pauls ‒
AS: So, you were working in the city of London?
CF: Oh yes, I started as a youngster.
AS: Yes, you were saying you had your leg in plaster.
CF: And so, I went into the first place I could see in Ilford and I said, ‘I’ve come to volunteer’, and I won’t use his language, but he swore at me and said, ‘We won’t want bloody strangers, we don’t want any invalids’, because I had my leg in plaster. He didn’t know that I was having er ‒, therapy for my leg and I forget what it was called, but there was a lady in Wellesley Road in Ilford and she used to put a pipe round my leg and then a wet towel, and she did a lot of work on my leg to get me into the Air Force. Anyway, funnily enough you bring that in, to start with, I was called up to go to East Ham to sign in somewhere in East Ham, it was a school, when I got there half, [laugh] half the class that I was with at school was there, yes there were about eighteen of us, and I’ll come back on this which will be interesting because then I had to wait for a medical, and though I’d had my cast off my left leg was still suspect.
AS: I have a few things
CF: That’s not my log book.
AS: I know it’s not your log book but ‒
CF: Where did you find that?
AS: It might jog a few memories for you.
CF: Thank you very much. Do you want me to go on?
AS: Yes, please do.
CF: I forget where I was now.
AS: You were just signing on and you found that half your class were there.
CF: Yes, and anyway, eventually I was called to the colours and was pleased to get in and start square bashing at ‒, oh dear, right on the coast somewhere. Yarmouth? Somewhere like that? It could have been Yarmouth. Anyway, I managed to get through into that and then there was quite a long wait to get through to where I was doing my training, marching, rifle drill, bayonet fixing, and jab it into a sack and I got through all that, and then I eventually started at Brighton post office, where the teachers were, who worked there, and they were teaching Morse. That’s where I started going from four words a minute up to twenty-six words a minute, send and receive, and it’s a strange thing that because all through the war, not through it but coming to the war, I wanted to get on to my next stage, ‘cause I knew I’d got to do the wireless, which was taking a wireless to bits and pieces, which we did in one of the museums. They had bits of the radio and transmitters there and you had to put the thing right, ‘cause some clever devil purposely had taken something out of it or dislodged it or put it in back to front, and we had to know to ‒, we knew that was wrong and we’d put it right and made it, the mechanism, work properly, and that was very, very interesting. And then of course, I moved on from there, ‘cause that took place in ‒, somewhere in London and it was very close to a big place, all round, had flats all round it, and we were billeted in flats there, where all the music comes from in London, Kensington, can’t think of the name of the place. Anyway, from there I advanced and I went on to further courses on Morse, and then I went into somewhere else and when I went in, they said, ‘What speed can you do?’ so I said, ‘Why don’t you test me?’ And I was taking it down roughly at about twenty-four words a minute in Morse, I was doing it, you know, just like that and they said, ‘You’re doing very well, keep going, keep going’, and from that, I advanced from that, and by then I had done my gunnery, not gunnery, rifle drill, marching and that and that and all the basics. So now I’d got to start really working on the trade that I wanted to get into, wireless air gunner. Well that then took me to Brighton where I was taught all about the radio itself, and the extras that went with it and it was a very interesting course indeed and I got through that, and then, ‘cause I was able to do so many words a minute, send and receive, I was already going to an air gunnery school. Oh no, I had a posting to Ireland, and they put me on a post in Ireland with four servers up on a box with a roof, where they had all the layout of the land below them. They had twenty of these posts up there and we were on one of them, and what was happening, the Germans ‒, ‘course we were getting the weather reports that we get, because it comes from the east and goes west, so we had it before they had it. Pretty good, wasn’t it? Whether somebody out there was blowing it for us their way I don’t know, but that was how it worked and while I was on there, I heard Morse come through, because I took everything down, and from another post, and I took it down, German submarine in gulf, what do you call them when they’re coming in? Gulf? Not gulf ‒, entrance through into the ‒, to get ‒, thinking it was [unclear] German, sorry, thinking it was southern Ireland and they made a mistake. They came in and got caught because the boys on there ‒. I was on nineteen post. I think it was eighteen post spotted it because it came in round the corner on surface, thinking it was coming through, thought it was in Southern Ireland to fuel up, and what they did, they sent in and the headquarters, there was the Air force there, and it was a Hudson aircraft went up and he flew over the chap and he did this, waved his wings to say, ‘ You’re going to retreat or I’m gonna bomb you or shoot you up’, and they gave in and that was tied up at the place that I could tell you about, also in Ireland, because I was posted there for a year. Didn’t like it very much but it was an education.
AS: How long were you in training?
CF: Oh dear, I started Morse training, from that I passed my wireless, then I was eventually, we went down to er ‒, these places, these places get me, it was in Wales, Bridgend, I think it was Bridgend, and there I started my gunnery course and that was very interesting news, air to air, and air to ground, and ground to ground, so it was quite interesting ‘cause they had a big area with things on tracks would be moving, and there were going round, coming round posts, and bushes would suddenly appear, you know, and of course, you open fire and start shooting. They were on electric rails. Very interesting. Well, we got through that and I’m afraid we had too much to drink because as we [unclear], we had to get on a certain train to come out of Ireland and we threw all our rucksacks on the line, and we had all the booze, we had a good drink [laugh]. Anyway, eventually we came back and we got on the train and that was the end of that. So, then I thought, well now I could start flying, thank God, and I was posted to a place called Yatesbury and there, you see the little cross on the wall, with a poppy? See the aircraft just to the left there? That’s a Procter, a single engine aircraft, well there we had to go up in that and tune the radio into a frequency they gave you and start sending Morse, which we did from a book, you got in this and the pilot he said, the sergeant said to me, ‘The pilot is Dutch’, but he said, ‘He will explain with his hands’, [unclear] and that means let the ariel out and all he said was, ‘Lose ariel, pay fifty pounds for it’, ‘cause it went out so long and they was all lead balls on the steel and they went right the way out behind. Well suddenly he dug me in the back and said ‒, so I said, ‘What’s wrong?’ ‘Wind up’. We wound the thing up. I couldn’t hear anything. And what had happened, we’d run out of petrol. This Procter, the very first aircraft, with the cross in the middle and that’s the first time I ever went up in an aircraft. Well, this fella let it float and float and float and we finished up in a field of vegetables growing, carved a lot of them up. Anyway, we got out and he went across, I waited ‘cause I got my equipment, and he went over the fence or something into an aerodrome which was quite near because we didn’t want to go floating in case it crashed, so we’d be safer going in a vegetable field, which I think it was right. Anyway, it was quite fun really because eventually he had a jeep come out to pick me up and take me back to Yatesbury. Well, I went off at twenty to twelve and as I got out of the jeep, I looked at my watch, I said to the sergeant, ‘Cor Sergeant that was good timing. It’s twenty to one, I’m going to dinner’. He said, ‘You’re not getting that one’, and he sent me up straightaway, so I had another hours flying. Anyway, I got through that and then ‒, I won’t go into the trouble I had, well I had no trouble, but the thing is that they wanted me ‘cause I could do Morse and I was useful, and I turned out to be quite a useful person, I would be pleased to say because the navigator suddenly says to me over the intercom, ‘Get us a bearing’, and I said, ‘OK’, but all I did was, I didn’t have a clue where we were, but I just looked at the south coast thinking, well, I know south’s that way, I’d find a place and I’d look in my book and I get their frequency, and I’d tune my radio up on that frequency and when I catch it, it goes ‘burr’, like that, so I clip my clip down on the key that I send Morse out on, so it’s a continual ‘burr’, and then I have to tune my transmitter in to that frequency until I get a ‘burr’ on the ‒, from the, transmitter and the transmitter picks that key up as well, its burring so I know I’ve got the right one, take my finger off that and then I just go ‘burr’, I ask for a bearing and they give me one and I give it to the navigator. Well, I could do that in three minutes and that’s getting a bearing from England. Yeah, I was, I was very quick on that. I enjoyed doing it, it was nice, and then of course we had all sorts of funny things happen when we were flying. One of the things that has always stuck in my mind, our navigator said to me, because he sat, no, I sat here and he was sitting that way. This was the port side. I sat here, and my receiver was here, and my transmitter was up here, and I sat there and this was the mid upper gunner’s legs and we were all sitting, I could touch the ‒, he was standing there, the chap in charge of the petrol, the flight engineer, and then we had the pilot, he was beyond the navigator, the bomb aimer was down there on his stomach and the rear gunner. That was how we are and I was sitting. Anyway, we went on one of these trips, coming home from Germany and quite amusing, our navigator said, ’Well, we’re on the way home now’. So, he stood up and he said, ‘You know what? All these years, no, all this time’, he said, ‘I’ve never looked out of the dome at the top’. He was a tall man like yourself and he got up there and suddenly he says, ‘Good God’, he said, ’Do you know there’s a fleet of American bombers coming’, He said, ’There’s eleven of them across and they’re doing this’. Well, that meant they were lost, so my navigator said to Sid, ‘They want to follow’, so Sid just waved our wings, that was the pilot, yes, he was the pilot, a very nice man. There’s my pilot. Anyway, do you know how many aircraft there were out? Eleven lots of three. And as we went out that way to go across the channel, these turned onto our tail so we led them right from out of Germany, into France and across over the water. When we got to England, we thought, ‘Well, they’ll know where they are now’, so we carried on, we were in Yorkshire. Do you know, they followed us all the way to Yorkshire? We were still flying on three engines ‘cause my engine had been hit and it wasn’t working. It just stopped, so we were flying on three engines, we kept going. Anyway, this lot followed us all the way, not up to where they [unclear], ‘cause our navigator said, ‘Oh’, he said, ‘they’re all in the Cambridgeshire area, they’ll land there’. They didn’t, they followed us on and on and on and when we got to, almost to Leconfield, where I was in Yorkshire, our navigator said, ‘We’ve got thirty-three American bombers that have followed us all the way from Germany to get back home’. Anyway, so as we’d been on three engines and fuel was getting low, our cap wouldn’t allow us to land, He said, ‘No, you keep your height and stay. Let this lot in’. So, these thirty-three American bombers landed before we could go in. Fortunately, we were alright, but they were having to put them, park them, behind the houses, putting anything, string, not string, straw or grass or anything on them. They had to do it themselves, camouflage it so if the Jerries’ had come and seen that lot, they would’ve sent more over. So, we had the Americans. Anyway, they had a conference in the morning with our Group Captain. He said, ‘Why aren’t you taught ‒’, He said, ’I’m sorry’, he said, ’We’re not taught, we have to read the map’, so they read the map. They were given a map evidently and a book and they’re told on the day. They’re given a piece of paper and they’re told, ’You’re going to such and such a place’, and they mark it all the way where you got to make, to that town and this and that, and that’s how they did it. That’s how they were told. That’s how the cap found out from them. But that was one incident we had. Another one is ‒, oh I’ll tell you about that. Can you see the flag with the ‒? That’s our crew there, just below it, there’s a hole in the wall, well that hole happened to our aircraft. We were ‒, unfortunately, our rear gunner, very good gunner as well, he had to immediately leave, his wife was dying. So, this was one of our later flights, or trips, and when we started going, we got to get down to ‒, let me think, I get some of these things mixed up now. Oh [pause], where did I say I was going to now? Yes, it’s gone. It’s funny how things in your brain just slips like that but I shall be able to pick it up somewhere. How did I start it?
AS: You were talking about the picture over there.
CF: Oh yes, yes, yes, that picture, that picture yes, I’ve got it now. Our rear gunner went on holiday, not on holiday, leave ‘cause his wife was very ill, she was dying, and now, whoops, you got it? We had a spare wireless, rear gunner, spare and his name, believe it or not, was Churchill, no relation, but Churchill. Do you know he saved our lives? And so did a German, a German fighter saved our lives. What happened was, we was flying along and suddenly Churchill came up and it was the first time we’d heard his voice on the mic, he said, ’Bandits, pile of bandits ten o’clock, dive, dive, dive’, and of course [unclear], we just climbed down from our bombing height of nineteen thousand three hundred feet down to fifteen thousand three hundred feet just like that. Well, suddenly the rear gunner said, or Mister Churchill said, ’My God’, he said, ’As you went down, you nearly hit an aircraft which was underneath you, which was lined up with those machine guns like that on top’, which were really incendiaries. They explode, he was underneath just lining up on us, so that was the second bit of luck we had ‘cause we nearly knocked him out, ‘cause we just went down like that you see and we could have taken him with us. Our rear gunner said, ‘God, he just suddenly flashed up in the air’. It must have shaken him with this bomber came down on him. We didn’t touch him and that was that. So now we were at fifteen thousand feet, fifteen thousand three hundred feet instead of being at nineteen thousand three hundred so we had to carry on, ‘cause we decided that if we climb up to nineteen thousand three hundred, we wouldn’t have enough fuel to get home, so rather than give the Jerries a rest, we said we’d bomb at fifteen thousand while we’re flat. Anyway, we went in and did what we had to do and come home and that’s when we picked up with these Americans that were coming on the way home. We were three engines only and this lot followed us all the way up to Leconfield. Oh, it was incredible. But oh, we had quite a number of er ‒, well I went home on leave, it might have been a Wednesday or something like that, and my mother and father said, ’Tell me, were you bombing on Sunday?’ So, I said, ‘Why do you ask?’ This is in Ilford, [unclear] Ilford, and she said, ‘Our letter box was going like this, rattling, shaking off its hinges’. Do you know, we were out there about six o’clock in the morning, bombing, and when we came back to England they were still going out? They were bombing one of the big ports in France that the Germans had taken, they must have blown it to smithereens I should think and we were on that there.
AS: How did you come to be in the RAF? How did you choose the RAF?
CF: Oh, I didn’t have to choose. I wanted to go in the RAF.
AS: But why?
CF: Well, I wanted to fly, I wanted to fly and I’d also get my own back, my own back. When the bombs went down, I said to myself, ’That’s for you England. Nothing to do with me’. I felt evil about the way they were scattering things and doing things all over the place. I mean, I had still to go to work before I joined the Air Force and climbing over barrels this size and about that tall of water being drawn out of the Thames, and all around the big barrels were screw-ons where the firemen put their hose on, and they were on top, putting fires out still, which were set fire in London during the night and I was trying to get to work in the morning. Buses weren’t going backwards and forwards, the number nines, the elevens, you couldn’t get on either, they didn’t know which way they were going to be sent so we had to go back to Tottenham Court Road and around the back, doubles. Oh, it was terrible but I’m lucky, I got over it but where I was, unfortunately, I fell down on the back stairs getting out of St Pauls, the Porser Lease is the name of the company, right opposite the clock of St Pauls and I fell down the back stairs. In fact, I stumbled because they were all rushing to get out and I fell down on this leg and this is the consequence. I hit my knee on the concrete with a metal edge and my cast was ‒, that’s where the cast came in on my leg and when I went to get through my medical, it was a miracle. How luck was with me I don’t know, because there you had to catch it with your arm, put your foot on the chair, and stand up, one, two, three, do it a dozen times and my left leg wouldn’t have lifted me off the floor once so I would have failed. And at that very second, this man was called away so I slipped this off quick and slid it up this arm, and I said to this chap next to me, ‘cause [unclear] I done the left arm, so I slip this one off and slip it up here, and I said to the man this side, ’Excuse me, would you mind if they do me, because I want to keep up with my friends’, ‘Oh sure’, so I just tightened it up and I did it with my left leg, no my right leg, and I got away with it and that never troubled me during the war, never troubled me at all. In fact, I’d been very lucky, it isn’t really painful, it is painful sometimes but I’ve got so used to it. But anyway, coming back to that hole in the wall there, we were coming back from this trip and we were not out of Germany and suddenly, there’s a terrific bang and a whoosh, and I saw this thing come up here through the floor, and it went up out through the roof, and the navigator was standing this side of it so it missed him and that’s what it did. It left a hole in the aircraft about this size, huge thing, it was brass. I was looking, I actually saw the thing come up and go through there and I tell you what, it frightened the life out of me but it didn’t go off. The reason why, ‘cause they, the Germans, had already sussed out the height that we were bombing at. This was one of them that came up and of course, it wanted to go on up, so it went up. It turned us on our side which the pilot had to rectify to carry on flying home [laugh]. That was a bit of luck.
AS: It was.
CF: Oh, there was so many things that you have that go through your mind, and many of them I don’t remember but suddenly they do come back, you know, like meeting an old friend. I’ve no aircrew friends now at all, they’re all gone. How old do you think I am?
AS: No.
CF: Have a guess.
AS: Um, ninety-five.
CF: I’ll be ninety-six in three weeks’ time.
AS: Oh, good.
CF: Yeah, but I’m still tough.
AS: All the people I’ve interviewed have been between ninety-two and ninety-five.
CF: Am I the oldest one then?
AS: No, I don’t think you are.
CF: Have you got some a hundred?
AS: No, I interviewed somebody who was just a week off ninety-six a few months ago.
CF: Well. I’m ninety-six on the 29th of June.
AS: So where were you born Colin?
CF: 61 Alton Road, Ilford, Essex.
AS: And what was the date?
CF: When I was born?
AS: Yes.
CF: It must have been 1920.
AS: Was your father in the First World War?
CF: Yes, he was.
AS: And what did he do in the First War?
CF: He was a ‒, awful job. He was a stretcher-bearer with the RAC, they called them [unclear], the Royal Army Medical Corps and the Germans saved his life. He was picking up wounded, they could be Germans, they could be French, they could be English, they just find a body, put it on the stretcher, bring it in and go out again while the shells were coming down and God knows what. Must have been terrible. And suddenly, the warning went up from base and spread quickly, the Germans are now using gas. My father hadn’t got his gas mask with him at all but he saw a dead German laying in a bomb shell and he slipped down the side and he grabbed his mask and put it on, so a German helped him.
AS: Gosh!
CF: Incredible, isn’t it? ‘Cause really it was a German fighter to start with at the start of that story I told you, started saving us ‘cause if we had gone up and bombed at nineteen thousand three hundred feet, we could have been shot down. Of course, the shell that came through wasn’t fused to go off until nineteen thousand three hundred feet, that’s why it went [unclear] straight through the aircraft and turned us on our side. Where I was standing, on a frame which they used to change the engines, you know, when the unscrew them, all the fittings, and take an engine out and put a new one in, and that was the frame and we had to stand on the outside of it and that was taken from the inside of the aircraft.
AS: What aircraft were you flying in?
CF: Halifaxes, oh yes, I must tell you a funny story. This is real true honest; well, you’ll hardly know it. We were naturally flying Halifaxes before these more modern [unclear].
AS: Lancasters.
CF: Lancasters. We came to ‒, were you at Lincoln where there were seventy-seven thousand people? You know what they did there? We always said those, what did they fly? They were flying ‒, oh gosh, anyway, it doesn’t matter. They said there was going to be an air display and all the rest of it, and we sat there and waited and airplanes were flying backwards and forwards and then they said, ’We’ll be sending our ‒,’ oh I can’t think ‒, what’s the name of the other bomber? Derek, what’s the name of ‒
DF: Lancaster? And London, not Lincoln.
CF: Lancaster. We had a Manchester, a Lancaster, they said, ‘It won’t be long now before the Lancaster came over. It’s going to fly over and show you his steel’. It was all quiet for quite a while then suddenly they said, ‘We are very sorry, but the Lancaster is out of service, we can’t get it to fly’, [laughs] and what happened the same thing, and we laughed our heads off, the ‒, came over at [unclear] thousands, the Queen arranged for our memorial, the Lancaster came over and he flew this way and he dropped the poppies, thousands, millions of them, and they went three fields away and boy, you could hear them say, ‘Typical Lancasters’ [laughs], ‘Typical Lancasters, they don’t even know how to allow for the wind’, oh dear, that was funny [laughs]. Do you know there was seventy-seven thousand people in that park? They never thought they’d have as many. Do you know we had a continual run, continual, all the time, of lorries coming in and unloading chairs, you could see them in the distance. You was with us Derek, wasn’t you Derek? It was packed solid. It was lovely though, really enjoyable.
AS: So, it was just Halifaxes you were on?
CF: Oh yeah, no, I mean, I started on, the first aircraft I ever flew on was the one without the fuel, was the ‒, oh God, I forgotten the name of that now, and then we went on to the next one, which was the de Havilland and we ‒, I was well trained as a wireless op but I was still at the end of my training. Do you know the chappie that got on with wireless op, he had been drinking and he lay down on the floor and went to sleep, yeah, pilot says [unclear]. I says, ‘Yeah’, so he says, ‘Come up would you?’ and I went up there. I don’t know what happened to this one.
AS: How many sorties did you do altogether?
CF: Thirty-eight.
AS: Oh gosh.
CF: Oh, a lot of them did a lot more. I enjoyed it. We were well into Germany, well in, and I came out as well. You see that big stone that’s on the wall, almost to the door? My son took that for me. That’s the stone they put down, the Air Force, ‘cause that was our last vision of England. We used to fly out over that and we used to say, ’I wonder if we’ll see the old ‒.’ What is the place called Derek?
DF: Beachy Head.
CF: Ey?
DF: Beachy Head
CF: Yeah, ‘Wonder if we’ll see that place Beachy Head again’, and it had another name as well, I can’t think what it is, but we did.
AS: And what were you doing when the end of the war came?
CF: What was I doing at the end of the war? I think I must have been in Ireland because ‒I’m pretty sure I was in Ireland. No, I didn’t go to Ireland before I flew, it was afterwards, ‘cause it took us eighty-two hours to get to er ‒, somewhere in the middle of England to get to that place where we were in Ireland. When we got there, we went into a village. They got a lorry, picked us up with our kit, I forget how many of us there were. That’s where we looked for all these posters round the island for Germans coming to try to get the weather report. They used to fly around this way ‘cause you see, we had the reports early, came from the west, but the Germans couldn’t get it from the west, not until after we had it, so we always had a bit of a lead on them which was very fortunate.
AS: What did you do after the end of the war? How did you settle back into civilian life?
CF: Quite easy. I went back to Porser Lease at St Paul’s Church Yard and the man in the department for stockings and socks and things of that sort, he said, ‘I promise you you’ll be a traveller for me’. ‘Cause I wanted to be a commercial traveller, I didn’t want to sit there doing a load of work in the warehouse so ‒, well, first of all, when I came back to see this buyer, he’d been killed during the war so I lost that exit. So, I went into dress fabrics and I was measuring out roll by roll, rolls and rolls and rolls of it. Do you want a cup of tea Derek?
Other: Tea of coffee?
DF: Coffee please
Other: Sugar, milk?
DF: Milk, no sugar, thank you.
CF: Yes, I was saying ‒
AS: You went back to St Pauls.
CF: Yes, yes, and when I got there, this buyer had been killed so I thought, ‘I’d better get on the road, I must get on the road, I must get on the road and I’m going to get on the road’, and I told the director straight, I said, ‘I want to become a traveller’, I said, ‘I’ve been working here years now, before the war, and I’ve just come back and now I want to work for myself as an agent’, and he said, ‘Well, we’ll get one’, ‘cause he’d heard I was going to go in stockings and, anyway, a friend of mine, a friend, was working at the same shop or warehouse, he left and went to the west end and he heard about a job and he told me of it and I went and got the job just like that and I started selling, and boy, I was happy. It was lovely. I started and they said to me, ‘What area would you like?’ and I said, ‘I’d like Essex, Sussex, Kent or more in the middle, Middlesex but’, I said, ’I don’t want anything with a London number’, so he said, ‘Why not?’ I said, ‘Because London is too congested. You’ve got to queue up’. Travellers. I mean, I went from one of the firms I was working for before the war, I went in with a sample to see the buyer in one shop and there was about seven men in the queue, so I thought, ’I don’t want this’. So, I said, ’No, London’s out’. Anyway, I had a phone call on a Sunday evening, there used to be a most beautiful orchestra playing nice music, and when he finished about eleven o’clock. the phone rang and the voice came on the phone, he said, ‘Is that Mr Farr?’ I said, ’Yes’. He said, ‘This is Mr So and So’, he said, ‘I’ve just read your advert in the “Traveller’s News” that you’re looking for an agency and you worked in a wholesale warehouse before the war’. He said, ’I wonder whether you’d be interested’, so I said, ’Yes’. Shall I carry on where I leave off?
AS: Yes, please do.
CF: Where was I?
AS: You were looking for a job travelling.
AF: Yes, yes, and this chap, he rang up Sunday night and he said, ‘Forgive me for ringing. I’ve seen your advert’, he said, ‘I’m looking for a traveller’. He said, ‘How old are you?’ and I told him, and he said, ‘That’s just the age’. I said, ‘Well I was working for Porcer Lease before the, before the war, and I said as soon as I got out, I wanted to become a traveller’. My father said would I work with him and I said, ‘No’. My brother’s firm asked me to work with ‒, going in working the same warehouse. I said, ‘No, I’m going to do it my way’, and I jolly well did and do you know, I travelled the whole length from Margate to Penzance. I did the Jersey Islands and Guernsey and I came up from right down in the corner from as far as you could go, Ilfracombe, and I’d creep up until I got to Bath, Bristol and then I go further up until I get into the middle of England, and I was working on my own, just with a business card and samples and do you know, I made a bloody fortune? I did well, I did well, and you know, I was so proud, and do you know, and my brother said, ’How particularly good you did’, because he just worked for Breckells, you may have heard of Breckells? Breckells underwear, shirts?
AS: No, I haven’t
CF: Well, they’re still going but unfortunately, they took him, oh I’ve got my hat on, they took him unfortunately away from Breckells into the fire service, and then it was rather unfortunate because he wanted to go in the Forces, the Air force, but they said, ’No, you’ve been trained as a fireman, you’re in the fire service’.
AS: When the war finished, did you keep in contact with any of the members of your crew?
CF: Oh gosh yes. Unfortunately, because my membership ran out [unclear] and it wasn’t the contact that I really looked forward to. All of them funerals.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Colin Farr
Creator
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Andrew Sadler
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-24
Type
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Sound
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AFarrC160524
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Format
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00:54:06 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Colin was born in Ilford in 1920 and at the outbreak of war was working in a London warehouse. Seeing the bomb damage around him he wanted to join the RAF and gain revenge, so he volunteered. Unfortunately he had a plaster cast on his leg, following an accident, so was rejected. He was later called up and found half of his school class at the reception centre.
Enlisting as a wireless operator/air gunner his Morse code speed was very fast and he was sent to Ireland to monitor German signals. He spotted a German U-boat entering a bay and an alerted Hudson aircraft captured it. After further wireless training he was sent to RAF Stormy Down for gunnery training. He then continued his flight training at RAF Yatesbury where his first flight in a Proctor ended in a crash landing as the Dutch pilot had run out of fuel. He was immediately sent back up so as to not lose his nerve. Colin describes in detail how to take radio bearings
He remembers one momentous operation when the replacement rear gunner ordered the pilot to take evasive action by diving, which was very fortuitous as they nearly collided with an enemy fighter, flying beneath them, which was lining up to attack them. After diving to a lower level, a shell passed through the fuselage without exploding, narrowly missing all the crew. With one engine stopped they struggled home and met a flight of United States Army Air Forces bombers who were lost and who followed the Halifax home to RAF Leconfield and landed there. The problem was attributed to the American system of pre-flight briefing.
Colin flew 38 operations and upon leaving the RAF took up a career in sales.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Bridgend
England--London
Germany
Ireland
Contributor
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Terry Holmes
Vivienne Tincombe
aircrew
bombing
Halifax
Hudson
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
Proctor
RAF Leconfield
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Yatesbury
submarine
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/572/8840/AFroudJ160509.1.mp3
652f8a9f36625bbc3294d28ca088a96e
Dublin Core
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Title
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Froud, James
J Froud
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Froud, J
Description
An account of the resource
Two oral history interviews with James Froud (1922 - 2019, 1801660 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as an air gunner with 44 and 83 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2016-05-09
2016-05-16
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DP: This interview is being conducted for the Bomber Command centre, the interviewer is Dave Pilsworth, the interviewee is James Froud
[Other] Froud
DP: Froud, the interview is taking place at Mr Froud’s home, in, Runnymead Green, Bury St Edmunds on the ninth November, two thousand and fourteen, time [pause] is eleven twenty-five
[inaudible]
JF: I was in Kent, erm, I was, about twenty, I suppose, nineteen or twenty. I hadn’t been called up because I was in a reserved occupation, anyway, I went to, the erm, the RAF was very busy with, German invaders, fighters and bombers, and er, I thought I would go in and become a pilot, [background noise] a spitfire pilot of course, [background noise] and er, [pause] that was all very well, anyway I went [pause] to, London, for an interview, and I can’t remember quite where it was, but it’s a well-known centre, for the RAF, I had an interview, had a medical and then was put on the reserve list, and, I was reserved for a year, one thing that annoys me about it is, is that I, was issued with a little silver badge, which goes in your lapel, and, I very quickly lost that [laughs] which was unfortunate, so everybody thought I was skiving, anyway, not everybody, perhaps. I finished up going into the service, and I was called up to, Lords cricket ground for [unclear] and then we were put in some, billets which were fairly new flats, opposite Regents Park, [pause] one thing I had to have done when I was in very quickly, because I wasn’t very well, but I had to have a tooth out, having that out, must have upset me because I was then very quickly put into, a, sick bay which, was a house within, Regents Park, whether that house is still there I don’t know, and that of course, I missed the squadron that I was with, anyway, I was put in another squadron eventually, erm, [pause]
[inaudible]
DP: Interview paused
JF: Torquay, and er, eventually, failed the navigation exams, so I then went to Paignton, and repeated them, and failed them again, so I was then sent to Eastchurch, and er, remustered to [unclear] course, from there to Bridlington, Bridgenorth, and finally Stormy Down, which was a, flying airfield just perched on the coast, in the south of Wales, erm, from there, I think we met up, a number of members of air crew, bombers, bomb aimers, gunners, wireless ops, navigators and pilots and gunners, I said gunners, and we just made a crew up, you weren’t allocated a crew, you just sorted yourselves out, we then [unclear] we went to Market Harborough, were we flew in, [unclear] what did we fly in, Wellingtons [emphasis] [laughs] and from there, [background noise] we apparently went to Husbands Bosworth, which again was one of the operational, er, no, what where they called, the place, yes, it’s O.T.U, operational training unit, and from there, we went to Swinderby, and flew in Stirlings, which we didn’t like a lot, well I didn’t [laughs], and the next move was Syerston, for, changeover to, Lancasters, I stayed there about two months roughly, this was in May, nineteen forty four, from Syerston, can’t remember the antics we got up to there, but I do remember going to Nottingham, to a dance, just before we started flying, and er, came back, it must have been early afternoon, since it’s May, June, area, and er, we were on top of a bus, saw a Lancaster circle round and then it suddenly, nosed dived straight into the deck, not funny, what a first experience, we must have been absolutely stupid, because we didn’t take any notice, we carried on, and [pause] were then, er, finished some training there, which was mainly for pilots and I did a little bit, er, we went to Warboys, ah, no we didn’t, sorry, we went to Dunholme Lodge, from Syerston, and we were there apparently two months, er, let’s have a quick look through the book, switch it off for a minute
DP: Interview paused
JF: And this, [pause] in forty-four, so I was twenty-two wasn’t I, we finished on Stirlings, on the fifth of the fifth forty-four, and my next reference is, for Lancasters, and that must have been at [pause] Syerston, and that was on the, tenth of the fifth forty-four, my, record keeping may not be all that good actually
DP: Interview paused
JF: Circuit and landing, erm, Mitchell, was our pilots name, and the instructor was Flight Lieutenant Singer, and then, having done dual circuits and landings, we did solo, circuit and landings, and we did that at twelve thirty five so, ten fifteen we were doing the first circuit and landings, at twelve thirty five, we were doing solos, that’s the part of pilot, of course to fly, and I just sat there in the turret and looked out for enemy aircraft, over England, not a lot, I mean, so, most of [background noise] there was circuits and landings, circuits and landings, circuits and landings, all pilot practise, oh, there’s something I did, but erm, fighter affiliation, gyro, corkscrew, that was for my benefit [unclear] half an hour, no sorry, fifty minutes, that’s not half an hour, fifty minutes, and then [pause] [background noise] it’s obviously moved, [background noise] to Dunholme Lodge, [pause] it doesn’t tell you were it is [background noise]
DP: Interview paused
JF: And there’s a town in France, Aunay-sur-Odon, I remember the Wing Co saying ‘down the bloody drain’, you don’t have to put that in, [laughs] the next one was [unclear] [background noise] and the third one wasn’t so funny, they were two fairly easy ones, the third one was Wessling, Germany, where we were hit by flak, we got seventy holes in the aircraft, erm, [pause] we’d got back, we’d lost an engine, this is from memory, and er, the skip, control, the skipper did three over shoots, on the good three engines, it’s not quite so easy to fly an aircraft, is it, and erm, control called up and said ‘you are number twenty on the circuit, you’ve got the circuit to yourselves, take your time ’ more or less, erm, [pause] we actually lost twelve aircraft, from the airfield, [coughs], now, I’ve forgotten the number of the other squadron, both squadrons had lost six, now that’s a heck of a lot of people to be missing, but, we didn’t really know any of those people, we’d only been on this squadron, a short while, we’d done three trips and, we were billeted in Nissan huts, although we’d got a mess, to go to, we didn’t really know any, or very few of the other crews, we’d got another crew in the hut with us, two crews to a hut, they had survived that episode, and er, we can’t continue flying with 44 Squadron, which incidentally, was a Rhodesian Squadron, er, flying Lancs one and er, and Lancs threes, so, [background noise] we continued [pause] I don’t know whether I read [background noise] [unclear]
AP: Interview paused
JF: I can now, France and Germany, we went through Wessling so once we went through, I ducked down, so they didn’t spot me [laughs] they didn’t know we’d dropped the bombs on them [background noise] [unclear] forty-four, Creil, where ever that is, France apparently, oh, then we had a little go at Stuttgart, eh, the second one to Stuttgart, DNCO, that was duty not carried out, starboard outer US, return to base, oh this wasn’t nice, by the look of that, erm, where did we go then, Gavourres, France, Lyon, Lyon, is that correct, which is right the other end of France, erm, and I’ve got port engine, badly damaged, petrol tank holed, and, as far as I remember, that was a Lancaster below us, had, made a hole in the aircraft, erm, I remember, it actually hit, the tramways, that my ammunition went up, you know they went a bunch of mates to the rear turret, filled up from the bottom and stopped those working, it upset the navigator, the wireless op, the way through, that, fortunately nobody was hit [emphasis], er, but er, I’ve got, port engine badly damaged, petrol tank holed, Gavourres, Lyon, [unclear] [background noise] [unclear] where’s that, I don’t know, Gavourres, Lyon, now, we then, the powers that be had obviously wired up what, the bomb aimer, who acted as a second instrument operator, erm, I can’t think of the name of the set, [unclear] there was H2S and there was another one, and they, were good at operating them, so, they sent us to Warboys, there’s an NTU, I can’t recall what a NTU meant, it’s a training unit, and we just did er, five hours, thirty five with them, and that was a swap over to Pathfinder Force, erm, now my first operation, first two operations with them, were to Danzig and Stuttgart with Warrant Officer Price, so, I was obviously a spare gunner, I remember the chap whose place I took, mind you, he was killed later on or lost, [background noise] but, that’s life, here we go
AP: Interview paused
JF: [unclear], like that, like that, like that, then came up like that, so, so, you changed, er, if a fighter was coming in from here, you went like that, he missed you, and all the object of that corkscrew was, so that he couldn’t get a bead on you, he couldn’t, another set they operated was a LORAN, L-O-R-I-N [spelled out] and it’s still being used that type of radar now, in today’s aircraft, LORAN.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with James Froud. One
Creator
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Dave Pilsworth
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-09
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AFroudJ160509
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:20:37 audio recording
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Huntingdonshire
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Shropshire
Wales--Bridgend
England--Yorkshire
Germany
France
France--Aunay-sur-Odon
Description
An account of the resource
James Froud wanted to be a pilot. He was interviewed in London and called up to Lord’s Cricket Ground. Having twice failed navigation examinations, he was re-mustered and sent to RAF Eastchurch for a gunnery course. From there, he went to RAF Bridlington, RAF Bridgnorth and RAF Stormy Down, where he crewed up. Jimmy went on to RAF Market Harborough where he flew in Wellingtons and RAF Husbands Bosworth, which was an Operational Training Unit. He flew in Stirlings at RAF Swinderby and Lancasters at RAF Syerston before joining 44 Squadron at RAF Dunholme Lodge.
Jimmy refers to some of his operations in France and Germany.
He was sent to RAF Warboys, a Navigation Training Unit, and swapped over to the Pathfinder Force. Jimmy refers to the corkscrew manoeuvre and LORAN navigation system.
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
44 Squadron
air gunner
bombing
crewing up
Lancaster
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Bridlington
RAF Husbands Bosworth
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Swinderby
RAF Warboys
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/573/8842/AGardR160601.2.mp3
fcd7778bea89ec158665387315505ae0
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Gard, Ronald
Ronald Leslie Gard
R L Gard
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Gard, R
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. An oral history interview with Flight Sergeant Ronald Gard (-2022, 1852481 Royal Air Force), his log book, correspondence reporting him missing and membership of the caterpillar club. He flew operations as a rear gunner with 463 Squadron and was shot down on an operation to Leipzig.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Ronald Gard and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is David Meanwell. The interviewee is Ron Gard. The interview is taking place at Mr Gard’s home in Liphook, Hampshire on the 1st of June 2016. Ok, well if we start off perhaps you could tell me a little bit about your childhood and growing up and how you came to join the RAF.
RG: Well, I was, I was born in Petersfield and in 1940 I joined the Air Training Corps in Petersfield and when I was seventeen I thought, well I’ll take my chance and go down to Portsmouth to see if I could join the RAF and they sent me home because I was too young but eventually they did send for me and I went to Portsmouth. I passed the medicals down there and then as I was going for air crew they said I would have to spend two days at Oxford through for the air crew at a station base. So I went there and I passed all the exams and the medical and they said that I would be suitable to be an air gunner so when I was eighteen and a half I was sent for and I reported to Lords Cricket Ground which was the reception place there and after a couple of weeks I went to Bridlington which was the place they sent you to for teaching you the Morse code and all that sort of thing and then I posted then to 7 AGS which was the gunnery school at Stormy Down in South Wales where I passed out as a sergeant air gunner. From there I went to Silverstone where I crewed up with four Australians and myself and another RAF gunner. Unfortunately, on one of the trips one night the Wellington I was in crash landed and the pilot was blamed for the crash and he was sent back to Australia and then we waited a couple of weeks and we were told to report to the flight office and there was a flying officer, RAF type, pilot who came down to sort of interview us to see if we were suitable to go with him. Actually we finished up we were very lucky because he was a pilot, a pre-war pilot. So anyway he was the flying officer then and he was our, from then on he was our pilot. From there we went to Syerston which was, no, we went to Winthorpe sorry which was on Stirlings to change over from Wellingtons to four engine bombers and we trained on Stirlings and then we went from there to Syerston where we had a few hours on a Lancaster and from there on the next move was to Waddington where we were very lucky to get to Waddington because it was a peacetime ‘drome and still going now and we, there we joined 463 squadron. We had three Australians in our squadron, in our crew. The navigator, the bomb aimer and the wireless operator, they were Australians and the rest of us were English. RAF. And there we’d done our operations. Unfortunately my skipper was deputy flight commander so we, we didn’t, we had, our tour was stretched out a bit because he wasn’t allowed to fly when he was doing flight commanding. Anyway, on our seventeenth trip we were going to Rositz which was the night after the Dresden raid and Rositz was just up the road from Dresden. We got over Leipzig and we got caught in searchlights and we got shot down by flak. I baled out of the rear turret. Then I landed in a field there and I walked all night on my own. There was nobody else about and the next morning I travelled, walked out of some woods where I’d slept during the night to see where I was and I walked straight into the arms of two farmers and one of them had a shotgun. The one with the shotgun knocked me to the ground and I think he was going to, thought he was going to shoot me but the other chap with him pushed the gun out of the way and then they took him, took me to the farmhouse to, and then there were some German, well soldiers I presume they were, they came along and they handcuffed me and took me to this barracks and I stayed there overnight and the next morning an officer, it’s funny really ‘cause an officer and his girlfriend came along, picked me up and took me to Leipzig station and we got in a carriage there and we went to wherever we went to and they took me along to this other camp there and that’s where I met my navigator and my mid upper gunner. From there we got on a train to Frankfurt on Main which was the interrogation place. I spent seven days in there in solitary confinement and then we, then they took us by train again. We were in box wagons and while we were going to Nuremberg we got shot up by American fighters [laughs]. So anyway we, when we got to Nuremberg were put in this compound there and of course I was with my navigator and mid upper gunner there and there was a crowd more and a couple of weeks went by and who should come in to the next compound was my pilot and the wireless operator. They’d escaped for about a fortnight but I think they, in the end they had to give themselves up because they had no food or nothing. Anyway, we were in Nuremberg for about six weeks or more and then we were on a forced march from there down to a place called Moosburg which was down near Munich which was, it took sixteen days to get there by just walking all the time and then we was in, when we were in Moosburg we were there for a couple of weeks and we were liberated by the Americans. The, which was under General Patton. Of course there was all manners of people there. There was Russians and all the, it was just a holding camp you know. Anyway, you’ve got to give the Americans their due they, they, after about a week we got into little sections of about twelve and we were taken then by transport to another aerodrome, small aerodrome. From there we sat there for about a week until our turn because Dakotas was coming in picking up people and taking them, I was taken then to Rheims in France. We got to, once we got to Rheims we were put in to, Lancasters were there and we got in and sat in the fuselages of Lancasters, this Lancaster and we were flown to Thorney Island on the Sussex coast and that was on my 20th birthday. From there we, we were given refreshments and that and then we were put on a, taken into Chichester and put on a train and taken to Cosford where we had all medicals and kitted out and whatever have you and from there we was allowed to send a telegram home to say where we were. That was the first indication that my parents had that I was alive. They didn’t, they knew nothing until then and after about a few days we passed the medicals and got kitted out we were sent home and I was home then for about two months.
DM: What, what made you join the RAF as opposed to going in to the army or the navy?
RG: Well because -
DM: I mean obviously you were in the air cadets but why, why -
RG: Because I was in the Air Training Corps.
DM: Yeah.
RG: I thought that was the next move on you see.
DM: Why did you join the Air Training Corps? Was it - ?
RG: Well, it was, it was the thing that all my friends were joining. They’d just started up in Petersfield and so I decided I would join the Air Training Corps and there was a crowd of us you know.
DM: Yeah. And did you have brothers and sisters?
RG: Yes. Well I got, I had brothers then.
DM: Older? Younger?
RG: No. I was the eldest in my family.
DM: So did your brothers join up then during the war?
RG: Well I had one brother, my twin brother joined the RAF. He was a transport driver. My twin brother that was and then I had three other brothers that got called up for National Service. Two went into the RAF and they were twins as well. And another one went in the army. I don’t know why he went in the army but he did but anyway that was it. There was five of us. I suppose it was called up after but the other three were after the war, you know.
DM: So what did the twins, the other twins do in the RAF after the war?
RG: One was a dog handler and one was just an ordinary AC I think. You know, just general duties.
DM: They didn’t stay on after -
RG: No. No.
DM: The National Service.
RG: No. And anyway, after I, afterwards I was called, I had to go up to Catterick, I think it was, to be assessed. What air crew was there you know and I was trained as, in stores and then I went from stores, I got posted down to Barnham in Suffolk and I was on a bomb dump place there. I was in the office there on stores and then just after that I was promoted to warrant officer and unfortunately they decided that all air crew with rank of warrant officers and flight sergeant would be reduced to the rank of sergeant so I was reduced then to the rank of sergeant and from there I was posted to RAF delegation in Brussels so I went out to Brussels for about three or four months and then I swapped postings with somebody. I went to Farnborough and when I was Farnborough I was there for about four months and then I got demobbed and I come out there and I joined the civil service and I worked for the Ministry of Defence, the army, for forty two years and then I retired at sixty three and I got the Imperial Service Medal for that.
DM: Go back to when you joined the RAF and you were training to be a gunner. How did the crewing up process work for you? How did you all come together?
RG: Well that was when we got to Silverstone. We got to Silverstone and of course when we, when I arrived at Silverstone there was all these bods there and of course there was lots of chaps in dark blue uniforms and I thought, who the heck are they, you know and of course I found out they were Australians and then we all, on the second day we all got in to this big hangar there and then the pilots went around and picked people out to crew up with you see. And this Australian flight sergeant came up to me. He said, ‘How would you like to be one of my gunners?’ So I said, ‘Yeah. Suits me.’ And that was it and of course when I, when we sort of got together there was a pilot and a navigator and a bomb aimer and we didn’t have a, we didn’t a flight engineer then. We didn’t pick the flight engineer up until a lot lot later you know so there was only six of us really in the crew to start with.
DM: Did you, I assume, did you not pick the flight engineer up until after you changed pilots?
RG: Yes, that’s right.
DM: Yeah.
RG: Yes.
DM: When you’d gone on from the Wellingtons.
RG: Yes. Yes, we went on, I think it was, I think it was when we got onto Stirlings I think. We didn’t, he didn’t come, we didn’t pick the flight engineer up until then.
DM: So the exception of the pilot when you were on Stirlings and afterwards he was obviously an officer.
RG: Yeah.
DM: Were you sergeants, the rest of you?
RG: Yes. I was sergeant. Till I got on the squadron I was a sergeant and then you automatically got promoted after twelve months but I was lucky ‘cause I got promoted after nine months. But so I was flight sergeant then and then a year on from there I got promoted to warrant officer but as I say I think they did the dirty on us a bit because why they did it I don’t know because we still got the same pay as a warrant officer but, but they, it was, I mean I couldn’t believe it because I was a warrant officer, it looked ridiculous because I was a warrant officer and then all of a sudden I was a sergeant. Back down to sergeant again.
DM: Strange. When you were on the squadron, you did seventeen operations I think I’m right in saying.
RG: I was shot down on my seventeenth yeah.
DM: Yeah but as you say it took longer because your pilot was a flight commander so -
RG: Yeah. That’s right. He was a deputy flight commander so -
DM: Yeah. What were your feelings sort of when you went on operations? Were you sort of nervous or frightened or -
RG: Well I wouldn’t say I was frightened you know because you had so much going on you know that you didn’t intend to be, I was never frightened. I don’t think I was ever frightened but because you were always sort of busy you know. Busy doing nothing as you might say you know because you were always searching around you know looking for, and then course when you, when you got over the target you was always thinking let’s get out of here quick you know sort of business you know.
DM: Did you get to fire your guns in anger?
RG: No. Never once. No. No I never fired, no I never fired my guns at all. I suppose when you come to think of it it’s the people, the lucky ones that got away. You know you get all these people who, who I mean I was only just, well I might interrupt and say I’ve just read a book on Group Captain Cheshire. He did a hundred operations. Well he must have been a very lucky man to do that number of operations.
DM: Particularly some of the operations he did.
RG: Well that’s right.
DM: Yes.
RG: Because I mean a lot of the chaps of course obviously they finished their tour, you know and as you went on you sort of felt a bit more safer you know, you know and when you I say I was on my seventeenth and that was it.
DM: Did you have any dicey moments before that?
RG: Yes. We got hit a couple of times by flak but as far as fighters was concerned we didn’t see, I didn’t get involved in any of them but no we were hit once or twice you know at different targets and we got over. Not enough to fetch us down but this one really caught us you know. It hit two of the engines out for a start you know and of course I was very lucky because the rear gunner had what they called a dead man’s handle so you could wind the turret around but otherwise I was very lucky because at that time they were issuing rear gunners with pilots type chutes so I was sitting on the chute but before that they were, they were stacked outside the turret. Well if mine had been outside the turret I wouldn’t be alive today because the flames was right up to my turret so I had to wind the turret around, open the doors and go out the back. That’s the only way I could get out but my bomb aimer and flight engineer were both killed and they’re buried in Berlin.
DM: Do you know if they baled out or were they still –?
RG: Well from what I gathered afterwards I think they were caught up with the machine. I think they probably baled out too quick and their parachutes got caught. One, I think one of them must have had a terrible death because his parachute was caught up in the plane and when the plane was, I think our wireless operator, he was, he contacted with the Germans that live around that way somewhere along the line because he wrote a book about it and he said that one of them was attached to the plane. His parachute was still intermingled with the, with the propellers.
DM: And you, did you, were you still in contact with the pilot when you baled out? Were you given the order to bail out or did you just decide it was the time to go.
RG: Well I couldn’t hear anything. I mean they said the pilot said bail out, you know but of course the intercom was all gone and being as I was at the back I saw the mid upper gunner come down and he went out the side door and I just rotated the turret with the dead man’s handle, opened the doors and went out the back that way. That was the only way I could get out.
DM: Do you remember much about the journey down?
RG: No. Not at all. No. No.
DM: They say most people don’t remember pulling the rip cord. I don’t know if -
RG: No. No. You don’t.
DM: I don’t know why.
RG: No you just go out I mean it’s the thing that I felt that I was always saying what happens if I have to bail out anytime, you know and you think oh you sort of dreaded that but when the time comes it’s a case of survival isn’t it?
DM: The lesser of two evils I suppose.
RG: Yeah that’ right
DM: If the plane’s on fire.
RG: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
RG: And I suppose at night you see when it’s dark you can’t see anything.
DM: No.
RG: And all of a sudden you’re down, you know.
DM: Did you have a reasonably good landing? You didn’t injure yourself.
RG: Yeah. I didn’t get hurt or anything. No.
DM: And you still had both your boots.
RG: Yeah [laughs] Yes. Yes. Yes, I kept them for a long time. It’s funny really because the boots that we had you know and the soles were, were the rubber soles and they were stamped inside Petersfield, Hants and that’s where I came from and there was a factory in Petersfield who made all these rubber soles and things like that and the bottom of my boot was stamped inside Petersfield, Hants. Down the bottom.
DM: So you were shot down. The two farmers -
RG: Yeah.
DM: Captured you basically -
RG: Yeah. They did. Yeah.
DM: The army came and got you and took you off. Eventually you went to the interrogation centre.
RG: Yeah.
DM: What happened at the interrogation centre?
RG: Well again you got interrogated by these Germans. I was quite surprised and I think that anybody who was a prisoner would probably tell you exactly the same that when they got to this place at Frankfurt on Main I was, we were in little cells on our own and one day, about the second day I was there they took me into this office with this German officer was there to interrogate me and on this, 463 RAAF Waddington. ‘I expect you know group captain…’ so and so, ‘Don’t you?’ And, ‘He’s got a nickname hasn’t he?’ And this was it. ‘I’m sorry about the two of your crew that was killed.’ I mean he knew more about the squadron than I did after being on the squadron for about five months you know. They had it all there you know. I mean the Geneva Convention says you just tell them your number, rank and name, that’s all you know and that was it. He was telling me more than I knew you know, there was so much on the squadron and group captain so and so was in charge at Waddington. And he just, I was, you know I stood there I could see all this 463 squadron, Waddington. He opened it up, telling me all about all these, commanding officer and all that you know.
DM: Did you ever feel threatened?
RG: No. No. Never felt threatened at all. No. No. I don’t know whether it was because well the war was almost coming to an end. I can never understand really why, why they moved all these people out of these, out of the camps like they did, you know. I mean they just told us we were going and that was it. Why they did it I just don’t know because they could just all left us there and let the incoming troops take us over you know but they, they as I say we was, I mean they did this all over Germany apparently. I mean this place at Moosburg was full of different people you know. There was Americans and there was Russians and there was English people there and goodness knows what. All nationalities so they all, and of course it happened all up the north as well you know all these chaps was in different camps.
DM: When you were moving about sort of like from the farm to the police station and so on and then eventually to the prison camp did you ever encounter any civilians and was there any hostility?
RG: No. Well, we, we, well I say no because when we first got taken to the place where I met my navigator and the mid upper gunner there was another three other chaps there. I think one was Canadian, two were RAF and the six of us then and we had three guards. Three old chaps there. And we got on this train and we got to a place called Erfurt which was halfway between Leipzig and there and of course the RAF had just bombed the place as we, and of course we had to get out the train. The funny part about it was we got out the train we was holding the rifles and helping these chaps out you see. Course they were our safeguard really. We went to the station and they got us up into a corner and of course all these civilians were there and they thought we’d just, we’d just been captured and bombed and after bombing the place and of course they tried to attack us but the guards were there and kept them away and they marched us out of there and we went and stopped at the school about two miles up the road for the night to get us away from the people there. But as I say we were, we were, then we got on the train to go from Frankfurt to Nuremberg we were strafed by the Americans and we were in these box wagons and fortunately, I mean we were sort of, the thickness of the wood was alright because you could hear the bullets rattling across the roof of course they shot up the train. The engine as well. That didn’t do us a lot of good.
DM: What was the camp like at Nuremberg when you got there because being towards the end of the war, was it -
RG: Yeah
DM: Was it -
RG: It was pretty quiet you know. There was no animosity at all amongst us then. I mean we had nothing to do really. Just sit about all day long, you know.
DM: What was the food situation?
RG: Pretty sparse. If we hadn’t had the Red Cross parcels which we did have you know I think we would have been in pretty bad straights then because we got Red Cross parcels through from, and they came through and I think we had one loaf of bread during the day which was divided between seven of us and then we had Red Cross parcels which was probably one between two or three you know. Very difficult sometimes to share it out but otherwise it was pretty sparse you know.
DM: Now when you were marched from the camp how many days were you on the road?
RG: Sixteen days.
DM: And this was winter.
RG: Well, no well it was -
DM: April.
RG: April time yeah. Yeah.
DM: So not too bad weatherwise.
RG: No it wasn’t too bad. No. But I mean we just slept where we could, you see, I mean. If you got into a barn you were lucky you know. Sleep the night, then off again the next morning off you went again. Course it was stretched out for a hell of a long, I mean I lost, lost the, my navigator and that, and my bomb aimer, sorry my mid-upper gunner. We, they sort of went, you know, and you just fell in anywhere you could and just sort of walked along you know. We were glad when we got to Moosburg but then that was, we were in old tents and that there until we got liberated by the Americans. Of course then the Americans went mad because General Patton came in [laughs]. He was like a tin god to them but I mean I must say that with the Americans they got themselves organised because they had their bakeries and all that came along and baking bread and all that sort of thing and when we, when we came out of the camp there there was American lorries as far as you could see. The whole field was full of American lorries and we got, as we say we were in groups and so we was put in these individual lorries and taken off. Some went one way and some went another and then we had the Dakotas come along to take us to Rheims as I said before.
DM: So, on the march was it hard?
RG: Well it was in comparison, it was comparison that we never had much food you know. We sort of struggled along and they did give us a bit to eat you know like a soup kitchen or something like that there or a slice of bread but as I say it was, it was pretty hard going.
DM: I suppose it was probably –
RG: Course being, I was comparatively young so I didn’t, you know like -
DM: More resilient. Yes.
RG: I could keep going you know.
DM: Yeah. So you came back. As you said you came back to Britain. And what did you, when you were attached in Brussels what was that? What did you have to do there?
RG: Well to tell you truth I don’t really know what I was doing there [laughs] I mean it was funny really because I was, I was there at Barnham there and they said, I was there and they said there’s a signal come through and I was, I was a warrant officer at the time. I was doing and I went to the signals, and they said this airman must go on immediate leave. Posting to follow. So I went across to the officers’ mess. There was only about three officers there and I saw the OC and I said, ‘There’s an urgent signal.’ ‘Who’s it for?’ I said, ‘Me.’ He said, ‘Oh don’t worry about that,’ he said, ‘I’ll get that cancelled,’ but anyway he couldn’t so they sent me on leave for a month and when I came back my posting was cancelled so I’d been home for a month and then the posting was cancelled and eventually when I got made, brought down to sergeant the posting came up again and I was at the RAF, it was a posh name the RAF Delegation Brussels but actually it was RAF chaps there handing over to the Belgian Air Force and just getting them started up again you know but I was just there doing stores and that there. As a matter of fact the last job, the job I did have there was with an old warrant officer and he was fitting out some married quarters for the officers there. All the stuff that was going in so I was giving him a hand with that and then he came up to me in the mess one night and said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘You live near Farnborough don’t you?’ So I said, ‘What Farnborough the [RAE?],’ so he said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘There was a chap posted there and he doesn’t want to go.’ Well I said, ‘Well give it to me then and I’ll take it.’ So I came, they got me a posting there fitted up so I went down, they sent transport for me, took me down to the Gare du Nord in Brussels. I got on this train and what I didn’t realise, it was, it was an officer’s train and the chap came along, he said, ‘Breakfast is served, sir’ you know and there was me with three stripes sat there and there were all these officers there so I, and I got down I got down to, where did get to? Calais, on the train and of course I was all on my own so I just got off with my kit and that and I said to one of the policemen there and I said, ‘How do I get to Dover?’ He said, ‘Well there’s a boat there.’ So I walked on to the boat and that was it and it was, I’ll always remember it was a Friday. I thought well I’m not going to Farnborough today. I’ll wait till the weekend. I’ll go Monday morning so I caught the train, I came down to Petersfield where I lived and stayed the weekend there and on the Monday morning I caught the train back up to Guildford, I think it was and then I went from there to Farnborough and reported in there and the chap said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘You should have been here on Friday.’ So I said to him, ‘Have you ever tried getting across from Calais to Dover on a Friday?’ I said, ‘I didn’t get there till last night and come straight here.’ Of course he didn’t know any different so that was it. But again I just stayed there until I got demobbed and that was in the July I think. That was about, well it was the winter of ’47 which was a terrible winter then and that you know but that’s when I got demobbed.
DM: You didn’t think of staying in?
RG: Well I say again with aircrew you sort of had two trades. I mean as an air gunner I was finished flying so then they gave you, sent on a course for stores and I was AC, or something, stores so if I’d have stopped in I would have had to lose my aircrew rank and start again.
DM: So you ended up in the Ministry of Defence.
RG: Yeah. I worked for the Ministry of Defence in Liphook here because there was a big army depot here.
DM: Right.
RG: And that’s where I went to work. In there.
DM: But as a civilian obviously.
RG: Yeah. Oh yeah.
DM: So, when did you marry?
RG: 1948.
DM: Children?
RG: No. We got no children. No. No. But I, my wife worked for the, for the Ministry of Defence as well and so when my wife she took early retirement. So at fifty eight and I was sixty two, sixty three so I thought I’d take early retirement as well so I took it just afterwards. So I’ve been retired since I was sixty three.
DM: When you were at Waddington what was the social, sort of life like? You, as obviously, as a crew I imagine you were associated with each other.
RG: Yeah.
DM: Did the pilot associate with you as well off duty?
RG: Oh yes. Oh yes, most well I don’t say most nights but if we weren’t on flying he had a car and we used to go down the local pub. Everybody mixed in you know. I mean even sometimes you’d go down the pub and there was your ground crew was there as well you know. There was always drinks on us sort of business you know. But you know, the, everybody, always spoke well of their ground crew you know ‘cause after all you relied on them. I mean I was reading an article there once where the chap was writing in the paper and said, ‘Oh it was always them and us.’ Well it was never them and us you know.
DM: Were the ground crew a mixture of British and Australian or were they all British?
RG: No they were a mixture, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There were Australian engineers and that there. Fitters. Whatever have you.
DM: What did you think of the Australians?
RG: I got on all right with them, you know. As a matter of fact in 1982 my wife and I went to Australia for six weeks and stayed there with my wireless operator and he died just last year. But they invited us over there ‘cause they, it was funny really ‘cause I was here one Saturday afternoon, we’d been out in in the garden there, just sitting there and having a snack, you know and the front door bell went and I went the front door, the front door and this chap was stood there and I thought well I know his face but I just couldn’t place who he was and he said, ‘Hello Ron. I’ve come twelve thousand miles to see you.’ I said, ‘Oh Dudley Hanniford.’ He said, ‘Yes.’ That was my wireless operator and him and his wife they had come over for a big reunion. It was about, I suppose it was about fifty Australians or more came over to Waddington and stayed up there for a week in Lincoln and of course I knew nothing about it then but afterwards I think that was in, well it was the thirtieth anniversary or something in 1975 so they decided they would all get together and fly over to Waddington and they stayed all around the area and the next time would have been about 1990 I think it was. 1995. And I was then a member of the Association which I didn’t know anything about and my wife and I we went up to Lincoln and stayed there for a week at Waddington doing all manner of things around you know in the station and we went out around. We had, we had an invitation to the Lord Mayor’s do up in Lincoln. He invited all these people there to Lincoln, to a party up there and we had a couple of invitations to the officer’s mess. They weren’t very happy about the Australians coming over [laughs] I think they were a bit of a gung-ho lot you know. I mean I remember once I had because at the end of every month you had to take your log book in to the squadron leader, the OC, to sign it to verify it, sign it, you know. And I went there one day and the squadron leader was sitting at his desk you know, and I went in and saluted, you know and he said, ‘God don’t frighten me to death,’ he said. He said, he said because they never, they never used to salute anybody then. I mean they might do it once in a day but they never, didn’t salute every time you met an officer there ‘cause they were all crewed in together, you know but they was a good crowd.
DM: And you’re still a member of the Association.
RG: Yes. I’m still member of the Association. Yeah. But I haven’t been up to Waddington for the last couple of years you know but I get a newsletter every, about twice a year from the Association. What goes on.
DM: And are you the sole surviving member of your crew now?
RG: I must be yeah.
DM: Yeah.
RG: Yes, because my pilot and rear gunner and mid upper gunner I know have passed away and last year, two of the crew were killed so that only left five of us and the wireless operator which I used to share a room with in Waddington in the sergeants mess and he passed away last year. His son in law rung me up and told me about it you know but we spent six weeks out there with them.
DM: How do you feel about the way Bomber Command was, I won’t say treated but perhaps perceived and dealt with after the war? Do you have any feelings about that?
RG: Terrible.
DM: Yeah.
RG: I mean –
DM: Did you think that at the time?
RG: Yes because they sort of, I mean today you read about all these chaps coming out the army and the services and they think the world owes them a living but nobody thought that about us. You know, I mean as I say I was a warrant officer one day and then I was reduced to the rank of sergeant. Of course when I come home people thought, ‘I wonder what he’s done,’ you know. And it was so stupid because they still paid us, I still got paid as a warrant officer. The funny part about it was I had a, I had a warrant officer’s uniform and an overcoat and when I was posted to Brussels I was walking around there with a warrant officer’s overcoat with three stripes on and I was in Brussels one Saturday afternoon and one of the military, the RAF police came up to me and said, ‘Excuse me sergeant,’ he said, ‘But do you realise you are walking around with a warrant officer’s overcoat on?’ I said, ‘Yes, that’s right.’ So he said, ‘Why is that?’ So I told him. Thought no more about it. ‘Ok’, he said, ‘Can I have your number, rank and name.’ ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘Where are you stationed?’ I said, ‘I’m at the RAF delegation.’ ‘Alright. Fair enough.’ Well fortunately it had come out on orders that although you were reduced down to sergeant you could still wear the overcoat but you had to put three stripes on it. So fair enough. So this, this friend of mine, he was in charge of the orderly room so I said to him, ‘Can you dig out that DCI that come out about wearing the overcoat,’ you see. He said, ‘Why?’ So I told him. He said, ‘Alright. I’ll look it up Monday morning.’ So anyway, funnily enough first thing on Monday morning I was sent for by the commanding officer out there and he said, ‘I believe you were pulled up sergeant,’ he said, ‘Well Saturday afternoon in Brussels for wearing a warrant officer’s overcoat.’ I said, ‘Yes. That’s right sir.’ I said, ‘I’m quite entitled to it,’ I said because they didn’t say we could hand that in and get a new overcoat so he said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Can you prove that?’ So we sent for the sergeant in the orderly room and of course he didn’t know that I’d already spoken to him and he came out with this, showed it to him. ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Oh you’re entitled to wear it then.’ I said, ‘Yes.’ So he said, ‘Well,’ he said, ‘Get rid of that bloody overcoat,’ he said, ‘And go and draw a new one from the stores.’ So I went and I said, ‘Have you got a spare overcoat?’ He had an overcoat that fit me so I had two overcoats then. Of course when I come home I had two overcoats. I still kept the other one but, and I think as for this Bomber Command clasp they’ve given us I think it’s a disgrace. You’ve seen it have you? You know I, when they said they were give the Bomber Command a medal and then I received this little bit of tin with Bomber Command on it I thought, useless.
DM: Yeah, obviously now there’s the memorial and there’s the new Bomber Command Centre but I think a lot of people think it’s too late in a way. It’s better that, you know it’s good that it’s happening now but it should have happened thirty years ago.
RG: Oh yeah.
DM: Or even longer.
RG: Yeah. Even now you see it’s, it’s all done by charity really. You know. Donations to keep it going and that and to build it in the first place. I mean they had these people who had plenty of money and built it. I mean, it’s a wonderful memorial. It’s a lovely place but again it’s just too late.
DM: Another veteran said to me, I don’t know if you think this is true that there is only one thing wrong with the memorial. When you look at it they’re too old.
RG: They’re too old.
DM: The people in the statues are too old.
RG: Yes.
DM: They look like thirty five.
RG: Yeah.
DM: Forty year olds.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: You know and you were all very young men.
RG: Well the average age was about twenty two. Something like that. I mean as I said you had chaps flying Lancasters who couldn’t even drive a car, you know. I mean most of them, I mean, as I said the wing commander, our Wing Commander Forbes. I think he was only twenty six and he was a wing commander and he got, he got killed on his second, last trip of his second tour.
DM: Do you remember how old your pilot was? How old was he?
RG: My pilot was thirty two.
DM: Right.
RG: My mid-upper gunner -
DM: An old man then really.
RG: He was yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DM: And the mid upper gunner you were going to say.
RG: He was thirty two as well. Yeah. I was the youngest one in the crew but I mean most of these Australians they were say twenty, twenty two something like that because they’d come over like and done all their training and that so they were getting on, I’m not saying getting on a bit but the average age was only about twenty two, twenty three something like that. If you took it right through you know.
[machine paused]
DM: Catch up sort of thing.
RG: Up, up till 1943 before D-Day rather up to D-Day the aircrew blokes got the Aircrew Europe star you see. After D-Day we got the France and Germany which everybody got. You know, all the troops. Anybody who’d spent twenty four hours in France got the France and Germany medal and that’s all they gave us. So, but what they should have done really in my opinion they should have extended the Aircrew Europe right through the war. If they’d have given us the Aircrew Europe, after all, we went, I know, I know we were probably going over France, bits of France which had already taken you know and we were not likely to get shot down there but I mean we went to, I mean I went to, some trips took ten hours.
DM: And you did get shot down.
RG: Yeah. Got shot down.
DM: At the end of the day.
RG: You see.
DM: Yeah.
RG: I mean Leipzig is a fair old way across there you know and that but I mean they should have extended the Aircrew Europe and given it to everybody who was on operations but they didn’t. They gave, all they got was a France and Germany. I didn’t even get the defence medal. I mean a lot of these air crew blokes got the defence medal. I don’t know why but they did but I didn’t qualify for it but I mean, I think with the Aircrew Europe they should have ext, the Bomber Command Association should have put their foot down and said, ‘Well look, we want that extended.’ I mean when they brought the ’39/ ’45 medal out that was only ’39/ ’43 to start with and they extended that to 1945 so why couldn’t they have done that with the Aircrew Europe instead of giving us a little bit of tin with the Bomber Command. When I went to Coningsby to the, when the Canadian came over we had we had a chance there for the, if you wanted it for the commanding officer at Coningsby to present you with your clasp and a lot of the chaps did it. They just came up and said, they gave a bit of a spiel what they did and goodness knows what and the commanding officer handed, I suppose what they had to do was to send their clasp in their box up to there and then you didn’t probably get the same one back anyway but the commanding officer you know they gave a spiel out about what you did and then the commanding officer handed it over but I wouldn’t do that because I didn’t agree with the clasp and I think that Churchill let us down badly ‘cause he wouldn’t admit that he had anything to do with the Dresden raid and that was the top and bottom of it all I think.
DM: Dropped it like a hot potato didn’t he?
RG: I mean these people turn around and say oh what a terrible thing this was and what a terrible thing that was. As far as I was concerned we were just doing a job, you know. You didn’t think about all the people that were getting killed down below. Never thought about that at all. You were just thinking about yourself really but I mean when it came to, when you say, ‘Well yeah but what about Coventry? What about Plymouth? What about Southampton and what about London?’ All these people who say these things now I mean it’s like the president going to Hiroshima now and saying you know he didn’t say sorry, but he shouldn’t have to say sorry. What these people didn’t realise that unless you were there or were about at that time the fact was that we would have lost thousands of troops if we had tried to invade Japan. I mean they had the opportunity to give in but they didn’t. It was typical of the Japanese but they, I mean the way I look at it is this if they hadn’t dropped the atom bomb over there we should have lost thousands of people trying to invade there. And they say oh you killed thousands of people and all this sort of business. Well that’s wartime I’m afraid isn’t it?
DM: It is.
RG: Last year, about this time a chap rang me up ‘cause I had a bit of write up in the local paper because it was my ninetieth birthday and that you know and somebody got to hear about it and this chap rang me up and he said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘You were in Bomber Command.’ I said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘How would you like to go up to Cosford for the day for a reunion?’ You see. I said, ‘Cosford.’ I said, ‘Well how do I get to Cosford then?’ He said, ‘Don’t worry about how you’re going to get there.’ He said, ‘Just say if you can go or not.’ I said, ‘Oh yes, I’ll go.’ ‘Well I’ll give you, let you know what happens.’ So about a few days went by and he rang up and he said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘We’ve laid on some transport to take you to Blackbushe Aerodrome and from there there will be a plane to fly you up to Cosford.’ So I went up in a Cessna. So anyway there was quite a crowd of us there and the funny part about it was well there’s only about four people sit in a Cessna. There was only the pilot and three others. So I went with three other chaps and the pilot came out and said, ‘We’re ready to go now,’ So there was quite a crowd there and all these Cessnas out there. They were all privately owned. So we go around there and we get in the plane and he said, ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Can’t start at the moment.’ He said, ‘We’ve got a job to start it. It won’t start.’ So anyway, it was quite funny because there’s the pilot, and another chap came out, apparently he’s the chief instructor at Blackbushe whatever he was there. He said, ‘I can’t understand it,’ he said, ‘Because I’ve been flying this plane all the week,’ he said, ‘and nothing, it’s been going alright.’ He said, ‘Perhaps the battery’s flat.’ You couldn’t, you’d never believe this. They couldn’t find the bloody battery. They didn’t know where the battery was. So me and these other two blokes were sitting there. I thought ‘cause it was quite a struggle to get up into a blooming Cessna so he said, ‘Oh well.’ So they took the bonnet off the front. No it ain’t under there. I thought oh a good job this isn’t wartime. So they put the bonnet back on. They found out it was in the back. ‘Oh we’ll have, we’ll have to charge it up. So will you get out again and go and sit back in the old canteen there,’ he said, ‘And we’ll give you a call.’ And so of course all these other planes were taking off to Cosford and we were just sitting there. So eventually the pilot came through after about an hour and he said, ‘Oh we can go now.’ I said, ‘Alright,’ so everybody climbs back and gets back in to the Cessna again. Chap comes along with a battery, looked like a twelve bolt car battery. I thought they’d already put it in the plane, you know. Oh no he come along with it. Anyway, he got the plane started up and off we took and flew to Cosford. I think we were about the last ones to arrive there you know ‘cause all packed out there. So anyway and of course then when it was time to come home the pilot said, ‘I think we’d better..’ and of course when we got to Cosford you had to wait until there was a van to take you out to the planes, you see. They wouldn’t let you walk out but they were only just up the road, they wouldn’t let you walk, they took you so were one of the last ones to take off. I think it was about two Cessnas left. Anyway so that was their day at Cosford. And this other bloke said, ‘We’ll see in 2016 but I think this year they said there’s something about it was at Scampton but I’ve heard nothing this year. Perhaps it’s too far down for me to go up there.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Ronald Gard
Creator
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David Meanwell
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-01
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AGardR160601
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:52:13 audio recording
Description
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Ronald Gard flew operations as a rear gunner with 463 Squadron and was shot down on an operation to Leipzig.
Spatial Coverage
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Belgium
France
Great Britain
Belgium--Brussels
England--Lincolnshire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Bridgend
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1943
1944
1945
463 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
bale out
bombing
crash
crewing up
Dulag Luft
Lancaster
memorial
prisoner of war
RAF Bridlington
RAF Silverstone
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Syerston
RAF Waddington
RAF Winthorpe
Red Cross
shot down
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/588/8857/AHubermanA160329.1.mp3
b5727226db7314e09558768a459abf06
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Huberman, Alfred
A Huberman
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Huberman, A
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Alfred Huberman DFC (1923 - 2023, 1671008 Royal Air Force) and a photograph. He completed 31 operations as a rear gunner on 576 Squadron. He subsequently completed other operations on a second tour with the Pathfinder force at the end of the war.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alfred Huberman and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-29
2016-04-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AS: Ok. So I think we’re ready to start. If I could put the recording machine there and that on there. So this is Andrew Sadler interviewing Alfred Huberman at his home in Hampstead in London on the 29th of March 2016 for the Bomber Command Digital Archive. Thank you, Alfred, for allowing me to come to your home to interview you.
AH: It’s a pleasure.
AS: Can I start by asking you how you came to be in the Royal Air Force?
AH: Well, my father was in the army in the First World War and he didn’t want me to go in the army and we had friends who felt the same way. They, they could only think of the war as trench warfare and bayonet fighting and he thought, he didn’t mind me at all going in the RAF actually. He was quite pleased ‘cause they could only think of the army you know as trench warfare and bayonets you know. That’s how the old timers used to talk. So I volunteered to go in the air force.
AS: And how were you selected?
AH: We went before a committee. People who, you know, examined you and why you wanted to go in and explain your reasons why you wanted to volunteer for Bomber Command.
AS: Before this time can you tell me about your background? Where did you live?
AH: Lived in Forest Gate. You know that’s not far from Mile End, you know. A bit further down near Upton Park and Forest Gate and I wanted to get in the war and get into action and I thought [unclear] because my mum and dad said I won’t go in the army. I wanted to go in the air force anyway and I volunteered in the air force when I was eighteen.
AS: So you started when you were eighteen.
AH: I went in. Yes.
AS: Can you tell me about your training?
AH: Yes. I first started training as a wireless operator air gunner. Started off in Blackpool and towards the end of ‘41 and I really, coming towards the end of it I really didn’t like being a wireless operator and I thought I’m not going to go through this, I don’t like this. I deliberately failed and re-mustered to go straight AG which they did, you know. The sent me for training as an air gunner.
[pause]
AH: Training was really tough. All kinds of things. You had to go on route marches. They made the training deliberately tough because it was tough being an air gunner and you’ve got to be tough mentally and physically to take it. That’s what the trainers all thought and the air force knew that and the quick, it quickly got sorted out, the good and the bad. You know, you could tell the guys who couldn’t make it. You know you felt a great deal of pride in being able to pass through ‘cause it was tough, physically and mentally, the training.
AS: Were there many who didn’t pass?
AH: Yeah. Yes.
AS: Where did you do the -?
AH: I’ll tell you this one thing that does seem funny. We thought it was funny at the time but quite a few rejected were those chaps who came from the Highlands of Scotland. No one could understand what they were talking, the way they spoke. So they couldn’t be correct, you know to serve on a plane. You couldn’t hear what they were talking about and there was quite a number of them who got knocked out for that but the course was so tough the weak ones were soon sorted out who weren’t, weren’t the right type for it.
AS: Where did you do your gunner training?
AH: In Bridgnorth. But you know being keen on being an air gunner I enjoyed it. The training was tough but it was, it was good.
AS: What did you do as part of your training?
AH: Well it does seem strange. We did quite a few fifteen mile, fifteen mile route marches which sorts out the weak from the strong and the weak ones did drop out and couldn’t take the fifteen miles. It got sorted out because it was a tough procedure to get through it because the corporals in charge were real tough guys and made you go, took you through the hard parts of the woods on the training.
AS: Did you join the RAF straight from school or did you work in between?
AH: I wasn’t, yeah I worked in between. I went to art school for a while in the fashion industry and I was also training at St Martin’s Art School. That’s why all these paintings that you see around are all mine.
AS: Yeah.
AH: And how can I follow on that one? I was keen to get in, to go on operations. The war was on and I wanted to get in the action.
AS: Presumably you were in East London and the bombing had started of East London.
AH: Yeah. I was in there during the bombing. We got bombed out. That’s what made me, oh that’s, I’m glad you reminded me. That’s, that’s what made me really keen to get at the Germans. We got bombed out in 1940. We went up, I had to go out and live with relatives in Leeds quite a number of months as well.
AS: How long did your training last?
AH: Well total training as air gunner? [pause] You don’t include being at OTU with that. Just solely training as air gunner. Oh God I think it was, I can’t think correctly but I think it was about six months.
AS: And then where were you posted?
AH: We passed out at the number 1 Air Gunnery Training School was at Bridgend. I passed out from there. You know, we had to do flying training there, you know, as an air gunner, you had, we trained on Ansons at gunnery school. Flying at Bridgend and it was, the training was really tough but it was nevertheless enjoyable. The comradeship was great. It all started from there. Air crew comradeship. Flying in Ansons. Shooting at drogues. We had to do, there was plenty of physical training as well. They made sure you were fit. A lot of physical training. Tough physical training every day. They kept us at it in air gunnery training. Training, you know. ‘Cause you really had to be fit. Their attitude was absolutely correct. One hundred percent correct. You had to be fit because you know, they knew you were going on trips from six to ten, eleven hours and at the time it was strenuous and you had to be really strong and fit especially sitting in the back where it was cold.
AS: What about after you’d finished your training?
AH: We then went to Operational Training Unit and to get sorted out into crews and you mixed and you talked with pilots, navigators and everything and in the mess all mixing together and you got sorted out. The first crew we got sorted out with we didn’t get on with one another. Broken up and then got sorted, got re-sorted again with another, six other chaps who found one another, talking together and we crewed up and they were a great crew, my crew were, every one of them. Super guy, the pilot especially. He was, he was a marvellous pilot and all the rest of my crew were. Each one of us. We were like brothers and he kept, the pilot, Ron Ireland he really kept his eye on us that we didn’t drink too much and one outstanding thing when we went to our first operational station, we went into the mess and of course you meet other guys that you knew during training and they came up to you and the first words they said to you, ‘Alf, whatever you do I’ll give you one bit of advice. Don’t worry or look about losses. Dismiss it from your mind because if you start worrying about losses,’ he said, ‘You can’t do a good job.’ And that was outstanding that. How they all told, told the newcomers at that point. I think it’s worth mentioning that.
AS: Where were you stationed to start with?
AH: What, operationally? Elsham Wold. Near Scunthorpe. And it was a great station. The comradeship was fantastic. The CO.
[pause]
AH: I’ll show you this.
[pause]
AH: It was Wing Commander Gareth Clayton. Later Air Marshall Sir Gareth Clayton and he unveiled a painting I gave to the, presented to the, and accepted by the Royal Air Force Museum. This is after the war.
AS: Oh gosh.
AH: The CO was a marvellous chap. He was very authoritative.
AS: And how many sorties did you do from there?
AH: Thirty one.
AS: Can you tell me, tell me about, about how you were organised and how the, each mission happened?
AH: The tour, you had to do thirty operations and then you were stood down for at least six months. After you’d done thirty operations you were automatically stood down. And the comradeship between the rest of the crew was really great. It had to be. The pilot was a strict disciplinarian. He’d make sure that we all behaved. Didn’t get drunk at nights, kept fit, which we did. And we all kept together and we became close, close friends. You know, every one of us knew each one’s life depended on the other one. Every one played their part. The pilot, the navigator, the bomb aimer, the flight engineer and the two air gunners, and the WOp/AG.
AS: Can you tell me about a typical mission? What it was like?
AH: Well you did have some kind of fear of certain operations because some operations were more dangerous than, than others and you had this fear and trepidation. Particularly of the Ruhr or Happy Valley as we used to call it and which was really tough because it was so heavily defended, the Ruhr. You couldn’t help flying over other targets, other cities which was heavily defended. Every, every one in the Ruhr, every city in the Ruhr was heavily heavily defended and they were all close to one another and when you went to bomb you passed over other cities and you were fired upon from beginning to end. I remember one operation dramatically we were going to bomb Gelsenkirchen which is just outside Stettin, next door, and very very heavily defended and I looked out the turret and I saw another aircraft was gliding slowly towards us and I said to the pilot, ‘Quick, dive. There’s another plane gliding towards us to crash. Dive quickly,’ and he dived and the aircraft passed over us and the pilot said, ‘Alf,’ he said, ‘You’ve saved the lives of all the crew.’ He said, ‘If there’d have been a hole in the hatch and I put, and I could have put my arm through,’ he said, ‘I would have touched the other plane that we just missed.’ Because a lot of aircraft were lost through crashes at night you know. Not always, not easy to see. Very dark and cloudy. Many losses were caused by other planes, our planes crashing into our, into our own planes.
AS: What, what was it like being a gunner? I understood it was one of the most dangerous positions.
AH: Well it was a dangerous position but one felt really proud of being a gunner and wherever you went in England you were admired as you walked along the street. If you went into a pub, I don’t think I ever bought a pint of beer for myself. I walked into a pub, someone came running up to me and said, ‘Hey, let me buy you a drink,’ and this was like that with all air gunners. Treated like this when they went, even walking down the road. Being nodded at and smiled at. Admired. Yeah, you felt very proud to be an air gunner. We did have the toughest job because it was cold. I mean one of my worst experiences, I was going to tell you at the beginning was we were at OTU and they started worrying now about German fighters coming over England and shooting down planes at night who were in training. So this particular night they gave us a plan to go up past, straight past the Orkneys and up towards Iceland to keep away from German night fighters and what happened this particular day they said, ‘It’s going to be very very cold there and we have to take out, for the first time, the back panel of glass on the rear turret to give the air gunner clearer vision,’ on the Wellingtons and the Lancasters that were coming along but the electronic suit had just been invented which was God’s gift to air gunners. It was a fantastic thing. You had an electric suit. Wires right into the gloves on your hand and it really kept you warm but at this moment there wasn’t enough electric suits to go around. They gave it to the operational ones first. They didn’t have enough to go in Training Command yet. They took out the panel of the rear turret and they told us that night, ‘Double your socks, pullovers, get yourself really warm because it’s going to be cold.’ So I did that and as we were going over past the Orkneys it’s now getting really cold and I’m starting to freeze and one thing we were taught as air gunners if you get too cold and you start freezing you must tell the pilot and I was becoming so cold the water on my eyes was turning to ice. I said, ‘Skipper,’ I said, ‘I’m sorry to report this,’ I said, ‘But I must tell you I’m freezing to death.’ I said, ‘The water on my eyes, I’m losing my sight, it’s turning to ice and I’m just freezing.’ So the pilot said, ‘Oh my God,’ he said, ‘It’s a hundred and six degrees below zero.’ And then the navigator pipes up, he said, ‘Oh my God,’ he said, ‘I’ve made a mistake. We’ve gone fifty miles north. We’re over Iceland.’ And just to try a sidetrack at that moment I saw the aurora borealis. We all did. The pilot said, ‘Right,’ he said, ‘I’m going to turn round, go back and dive.’ He turned the aircraft out, around and dived thirteen thousand feet and the force of inertia went right through my body. It brought me round and in no time I would have been frozen to death. And when we got back to base we all reported in. Three other crews had gone on the same trip as us and three air gunners had had their big toe operated, amputated. It was so cold that night. So they didn’t send anyone up that north again. So far up. That was one of my worst experiences. I was going to tell you beforehand, you know, on operations. Before I went on operation I nearly lost my life.
AS: What planes did you fly in?
AH: That was a Wellington. Trained in a Wellington initially and then we changed over to Lancasters and then I did all my operations on Lancasters then.
AS: You didn’t do any operations in Wellingtons.
AH: No. They were being phased out. You know, the Halifax and the, the Halifax and the Lancaster took over.
AS: Did you fly in any Halifaxes?
HB: Just once. I can’t remember where or when but just once but much preferred the Lancaster. The Lancaster was definitely a more superior plane.
AS: In what way?
AH: Technically it was faster, it was more manoeuvrable than the Halifax. I did go in a Halifax, did a trip, did training on it and didn’t like it that much. Felt much more comfortable in a Lancaster. Everyone on the crew did. Well, it was proved anyway you know. The Lancaster was the [emphasis] bomber. Successful.
AS: So you did, did you do all of your missions from Scunthorpe?
AH: On my first tour yes.
AS: Oh.
AH: Yes. We got our our toughest mission was Mimoyecques. Have you heard of that? Well this was the site on the English, on the French coast and the English Channel. The CA, we weren’t given technically what the, they said it’s a very very important German base in France. They got, they wouldn’t describe exactly what it was there. He said ‘but it’s very secretive’. He spoke in words going around the operation. Being indiscreet about it and we had to go in at ten thousand feet which is pretty low you know. We’d never gone in before at that height to bomb. He said ‘because the bombing’, he said, ‘must be very very accurate’ and as it turned out it was one of the most successful, important raids of the whole war. It was the site of, it was going to be the secret site of the V3 which was never used because we destroyed it and forty five were lost on that night and Leonard Cheshire was the master bomber on that raid and it was going to be the V3. It was sixty, it was going to fire sixty rounds. Each one was. Hitler apparently had ordered this to be built and be done. It would fire in one go sixty missiles to London, that would land in London in one go. They would fire sixty missiles from the base at Mimoyecques and we had to go in at ten thousand feet because the bombing had to be very accurate for it, apparently and forty five were lost on that raid which was horrendous and because we had to go in at ten thousand feet we were an easy target. We were hit badly by flak and one of the engines caught fire. The pilot doused the fire and flying back once, he said, the flight engineer said all the brakes had gone. The pilot, the turret wouldn’t turn and we had no brakes so the pilot asked each one of us in turn should we land on the sea just on the, by the coast and get out of the plane that way and we all said, each one said, ‘No. Let’s try and get back to base.’ Well we got back to the base but we had no brakes on landing so what happened, the pilot landed the plane, he couldn’t brake, he now cut the other engine in the starboard port engine, the starboard engine had been shot, he cut the engine on the same side, on the starboard side and the, we spun round and round and round and came to a stop and just hit a tree and we all got out but the aircraft could never be used again. We were all lucky to get out. The pilot had done a miraculous job to land a plane with no, to get us all out with no brakes. Yeah, you couldn’t do an operation without something going wrong and tough.
AS: So you did thirty one trips.
HB: Yes.
AS: For your tour.
HB: Yes. You were supposed to do two. You’re supposed to do thirty and then you’re stood down, then whilst I was there on the station earlier on when we were a rookie crew you had to stand by. You didn’t go on the operations. If any personnel on one of the planes couldn’t go that night you’d take his, you’d take his place and after we’d done about six operations we stood by that night and then the pilot said, we had, he said, ‘ Alf,’ he said, ‘I’m sorry to tell you this,’ he said, ‘But you’ll have to go. The air gunner’s been taken ill. He can’t go. You’ll have to take his place.’ So ok I went in his place. It was a French target. The longest one, French target I’d ever been on, it was down almost on the, to the coast and as we got over the coast the fog was something terrible. There was fog from over twenty thousand feet high to the ground and we got nearer so we were all tuned in, could hear what the master bomber was saying and he said, ‘Well chaps,’ he said, ‘We’ll get, try and get to the target, see, maybe the fog will clear.’ Well when we nearly got there the fog hadn’t cleared and the Pathfinders were going around and around, down to three thousand feet and it hadn’t cleared and he said we’d have to cancel the raid and return home. ‘Go back. Make your way back. Drop your bombs in the sea,’ because you can’t land with bombs in your aircraft, which we did. It was a nightmare of an operation. And when I got back all my crew were all waiting for me on the briefing. I said, ‘What are you all doing there? Why are you here?’ They said, ‘We couldn’t go to sleep in our beds while you were out there. We had to wait for you to see you come back,’ and they all patted me on the shoulders you know, shook hands and what a night that was. Never saw anything of the ground. Nightmare flying through the bloody fog. Fog nearly choked us. And then the pilot come to do the thirtieth operation and the pilot said to me, ‘Alf,’ he said, ‘You don’t have to come on this, this one ‘cause it’s your thirty operations. The CO’s told me that if you don’t want to come you can stand down.’ I said, ‘Oh no. All for one, one for all.’ I said, ‘I’ve been through all the lot together I’m still going to go with you with this one, so this will be my thirty first. So the pilot said, ‘Ok. Fine.’ We went and the target was one of the worst in Germany. It’s called Braunschweig, better known to us as Brunswick. Thirty miles just south of Berlin and when we got there, as we nearly got there, I saw an unidentified aircraft. I reported to the pilot an unidentified aircraft. We’d just bombed the target. An unidentified aircraft on the port side. I said, ‘I’m not sure what it is. Whether it’s enemy or ours.’ I said, ‘Well take no chances then. Prepare to corkscrew port.’ So I said, ‘I’m not sure about it. Let’s corkscrew port,’ and he did and we did a dive, went into a dive thirteen thousand feet or more. Just past the target and we flew back over Germany at five thousand feet all the way back to England. We got through. So it was quite a last night. Horrendous target.
AS: So when you, once you’d done your thirty one, what would, what did you do when you stood down for six months?
HB: They sent me to, you could have, they gave you a load of choices and I thought well I’d like to go, maybe go on a radar station on the coast and they did. They sent me to a radar station and they said you know you’ll see action in the planes there. Just sit and you know, just take it easy there. Have a, have a good rest. Myself and the flight engineer both volunteered to go and do the same thing so we both went together to the station and we were treated like lords on this radar station on the south coast. And then I missed, I certainly missed the operational, I certainly missed not being with air crew and I wanted, war was still on and it was, it was ok but we wanted to get back in to the action. We sadly missed all the air crew and the life on the squadron so I volunteered to go back which I did in February 1945 and I volunteered to go in the Pathfinder force. On 83 squadron at Wyton. And although I was operational again I was glad to be with all the air crew again and the operations weren’t as tough. Just did seven but what was really nasty the last couple were on the operation called Manna which was dropping food supplies to the Dutch. The Dutch were starving. I don’t know if you knew about that. They really hadn’t got enough food. We started dropping food at three thousand feet to the Dutch people who were starving who were tremendously, we found after how grateful they were and the German bastards even though the war had just finished but by a few days were still firing at us and shooting us down at three thousand feet dropping food to the Dutch. And a few days after the German gunners you know were still firing and shooting down our bombers. The bastards.
AS: Can you tell, tell me a bit about being in the Pathfinders?
HB: Yeah it was, you know you went in first but it was towards the end of the war. It wasn’t as bad as the early part like my first tour but I was proud to be with them because they did do a tough job and after the war I knew Bennett, knew Bennett very well. They were wonderful people. He was the commander in chief of the Pathfinder force and he was a super chap and a few years after the war I started up, I was instrumental with some others in forming the Air Gunner’s Association. It started about seven sort of years after the war because no association had been formed. We started out and we became very very active and I and others were instrumental in bringing Bomber Harris out of the cold. I had, and went to meet him and he was a most wonderful chap and he really loved his air gunners. He was at the reunions and he was always the chief guest of honour. And I’ll recall for you the story I never tire of telling. This story after the war had finished I’ll recall for you a name that by and large is forgotten now but his name was Albert Speer. Does that name mean anything to you?
AS: Oh yes. I’ve read his, I read his, his book, “Inside the Third Reich.”
HB: Yeah.
AS: And, and several books about him.
HB: Oh that’s interesting. Well he was the only German Nazi, leading Nazi who repented and he was the only one who wasn’t executed and after the war was over he got in touch with Bomber Harris and they told stories to one another about, you know the war efforts and became very friendly. During one of our reunions when Harris was there I had to stand up I’ll stand up, ‘I’d like to recall for you chaps Albert Speer as you all know, who you knew was the head of ammunitions, factories and armaments from the beginning of the war to the end’ and I had to say in front of Bomber Harris here that you will recall, I told all the audience that when Albert Speer spoke to him, Albert Speer said to Harris, ‘if it hadn’t have been for Bomber Command Germany would have won the war.’ And Harris stood up and said, ‘Ha.’ he said, ‘Right,’ he says, ‘Who knew better than him? He was our best customer.’ He’s right.
[pause]
HB: Where would you like me to continue?
AS: Please. When you were in the Pathfinders where were you stationed then?
HB: Wyton. RAF Wyton.
AS: What planes were you going up in at that point?
HB: Lancasters.
AS: Still in Lancasters.
HB: Yeah. No, I wasn’t a fighter pilot.
AS: No. And you were still working as a gunner.
HB: Oh yeah. Once a gunner always a gunner. Yes. And I’m proud to say that I also was instrumental with others, particularly Sir Michael Beetham, Marshall of the Royal Air Force in founding the air gunners, also going to get the Bomber Command Association started. I’ve been on the committee of the Bomber Command Association since day one and been vice chairman for a while.
AS: When, when the end of the war came, can you tell me about that? How did you greet the news that the war had come to an end?
HB: We were delighted, you know, we were happy to be victorious. The war, we all cheered it in the mess and clapped hands, you know, when it was announced and –
[pause]
HB: There was one incident, one nasty incident that I will recall. Just before Christmas 1945, after the end of the war, six months after the war, they thought it was a good idea instead of bringing such a long dragging trip flying the troops home from, it would be better to fly the, quicker to fly the troops home from Germany than, sort of quicker to fly the troops home that were coming back from Singapore or in Italy flying the troops home from Italy quicker than sending them back by boat. So that Christmas week they said you’ll go to, fly to Naples, fill it up with air crew from Italy and fly them back to England. It will save all that drag. So we did, we started, we flew from London to Naples which was a long trip. An eleven hour trip. When we got there, went into the mess, I meet the best friend I ever knew training as an air gunner. He, when I’d gone to Bomber Command, when I was posted he was posted to the Italian campaign and we were so pleased to see one other I can’t tell you. We clutched one another fantastically and he said, ‘Alf,’ he said, ‘And your crew. I’ll tell you what you must do while you’re here in Naples. The thing you mustn’t miss’ He said, ‘You must you must go and see the ruins of Pompeii.’ He says, ‘It’s easy to get there. It’s only five miles away and all day long there’s RAF transport and vans passing from the base here past the entrance to the ruins of Pompeii and,’ I told that, he said, ‘You must get all your crew to go there with you. Yeah. Just get a guard, pay one of the guards of the, who will take you all around Pompeii. Give him a good price and he’ll show you everything that’s there.’ And the rest of the crew said oh that would be marvellous. Pulled, stick on an RAF plane, on an RAF van. We all got in it. He dropped us at Pompeii and we got out and one of the guides, not a guard, a guide I meant and we paid the guy to take us around and we followed him and he pointed out, he spoke perfect English, all the interesting things in Pompeii and then we go downstairs in to the basement and there’s an artist working with his easel there copying all the paintings, the masterpieces on the wall and naturally being artistic I started talking to him and he spoke perfect English and he was explaining everything, what this meant and what he was doing and when I got out and went upstairs I couldn’t see any of the crew, I couldn’t see a person. So I started walking around and now I’m a bit lost and it’s a big place the ruins, in the ruins. I can’t see one person and I started walking along looking and suddenly two little boys about between fourteen and sixteen came up to me and said, ‘Hey Joe, you gotta the money.’ I said, ‘Get away.’ And they said, ‘Hey Joe you gotta the money. Give us the money.’ I said, ‘No. Get away.’ And I can’t find the crew and suddenly from out of nowhere another fifteen, twenty kids started all coming up to me and started tugging at me, pulling at me, ‘Hey Joe you gotta the money.’ I said, ‘No. Get away,’ and I started running to try and get away from them and they started running after me and still there was no one around. And I’m now getting worried. They started tugging me. Pulling me. Then suddenly they started screaming out [parapachi?]. That’s like the Italian word for police and suddenly they all left and ran away into the woods there and suddenly two men with, fully armed with machine guns across their shoulders come up to me and said, ‘ah’, they spoke English, they told me, ‘We’ve saved you,’ he said, ‘They would have killed you for the money. They would have taken every bit of your clothing off.’ Because they were short of money, you know in Naples and all bloody gangsters and God knows, and the mafia there. He said, ‘They would have killed you for the money and have taken a knife to you.’ Although they were only kids, he said ‘they’re really tough ones. ‘We’ll get you back to your crew, the rest of your men, you’ll be safe. Don’t worry anymore.’ And I was, I was nearly assassinated there.
AS: Gosh.
HB: After the war.
AS: When were you demobbed?
HB: 1946. Early ’46.
AS: What did you do in the RAF between the end of the war and when you were demobbed? Obviously fetching troops back was one of them.
HB: Yeah. One of them. They had all kinds of jobs for us. I mean one of the first things we did was to fly the POWs home from Belgium and that was quite a, quite something to talk to the chaps who were POWs and we were all naturally asking them how they were treated and they all said, terribly. And they were all asking me about what it was like for us afterwards and explained to them and one was a squadron leader. I’ll never forget. He had a DFC. When we landed in England he got out. He was the first one to get out, oh and he wanted to sit in the turret during the flight back because he, he said he was shot down in 1940. You know he wasn’t used to, he didn’t know what a Lancaster was. So I let him sit in the Lancaster all, sit in the turret all the way back to England. He got out, started kissing the ground and they all kissed the ground. They all followed him. The, all the prisoners thanking, you know that they were back in England. I wonder what it was for them. It was quite an experience watching them do that, you know. It’s so emotional.
AS: After you were demobbed what did you do then? How did you settle back in to civilian life?
HB: Well the first few months were very very difficult. Incidentally, I do say this. I never told my mum and dad that I was on operations. I told them I was in training all the time and I told all the family, you know I was operations, brothers and sisters, not to mention a word to them because you know they were reading every night, every day forty, fifty, thirty, sixty lost and my father said to me, he says, ‘You must be the lousiest air gunner in the air force,’ he says, ‘You’re always in training.’ So I said, ‘Well it takes a long time,’ and then of course when I finished and I told them and you know he shook his head at me, ‘Oh yeah,’ see, ‘You weren’t a lousy air gunner.’ No. I thought, save them. Why let them go through the agony of reading about the losses every night and knowing it could have been me, me on it and you know parents did have a tough time with their children on ops.
AS: So what did you do when you came home?
HB: I went to St Martin’s Art School to study art and fashion and then [pause] after about five years, six years I got married and then formed my own fashion company designing women’s clothes, coats.
AS: You said you found it difficult when you came home. In what way?
HB: The first six months. It was very difficult to reconcile. You missed the comradeship of your friends and you know rationing was still going on and things were still tough after the war being a civilian. The government I must say was helpful. They did support me in training in the six months I studied at St Martins.
AS: So you, so you studied for six months and then, and then did you start your fashion business then or did you -?
HB: Oh no. No. I went to work.
AS: You went to work.
HB: Someone else had [unclear] it didn’t take me long to be successful. It was strange, the first six months, it really was. To settle down with mum and dad again and my two brothers.
[pause]
HB: Is there anything else you’d like?
AS: Yes.
HB: Question?
AS: When you were, when you were on the base and you were doing operations, how long was it between the different operations? Was there a long time or were they in quick succession?
HB: Sometimes you’d go two nights running which I reckoned, off the record, that that was Harris’ big, one big mistake he made. We should never have been allowed to do, to go on two consecutive, two night’s trips, come back because you, when you came back three or 4 o’clock in the morning you didn’t get a good night’s sleep. They’d wake you up the next day at 8 o’clock to tell you you’d be on operations that night. And you weren’t exactly fit. You were a bit tired. It was a struggle to force yourself but you had to do it. You know, it was an order. You had to go and I think that’s the biggest mistake that Harris made. It’s never been mentioned, that. Going two nights’ consecutive trips was a real struggle. The second one.
AS: When you were, when you were between operations how did you, what did you do? Did you have any social life?
HB: What? Do you mean when I wasn’t on operations? What? Do you mean being on leave?
AS: Well or at the station but waiting for the next one.
HB: Yeah there was the comradeship was very, very strong between the crews and the other crews. You, it was, you know you made it part of your life and there was a pleasant side of it, pleasant side of it in sitting together and chatting with one another.
AS: Did you go out at all?
HB: Yeah. We used to go into the pub at Scunthorpe. Never allowed, he warned us not to drink more than a pint maximum. He was right. You shouldn’t get your head and drink too much.
AS: This was your pilot.
HB: Yes. Or even in the mess when you weren’t on ops not to drink. He was very strict. He made sure we didn’t.
AS: And were they all like that?
HB: Yes. Well he was very strongly. My pilot.
AS: What was your accommodation like in the mess?
HB: Very communal. We always all used to chat about the operations. What they were like and coming back, how tough. Did you see this and that? Talk about the target. And the comradeship was really strong. Really strong. That’s what I missed when I went to the rest for six months you know and that was cushy. I missed the, I missed the life. It got into your blood. The comradeship of your friends. You’d be with them.
AS: You were telling me, you told me earlier about going to the Saracen’s Head in Lincoln.
HB: Yeah.
AS: Can you tell me about, about that?
HB: It was, it was a pleasure to go in to the Saracen’s Head because you met comrades you’d been in training with, now they were on different stations to you now. You met old friends and the comradeship. It was all full of air crew, the Saracen’s Head. Every, so many air crew in there, in there, all chatting and talking to one another. It was, the atmosphere was fantastic. Never before and after was there a place to go into like that. The atmosphere was Bomber Command, you know. Have you heard from so and so and seen so and so. Talk about the different raids.
AS: Did you go there very often?
HB: Did we go there?
AS: Very often?
HB: When we had a stand by, a stand down. Where? At the Saracen’s Head? You always went in there a lot. Up in Scunthorpe it wasn’t, we went in the Saracen’s Head but I look back with a great deal of pride I served in Bomber Command. I mean it was really tough at times, you know, the losses were fifty five thousand killed out of a hundred thousand. We took the biggest loss pro rata of any other force during the war and we still have that. All my best friends are ex bomber chaps. We all stuck to one another closely. You can’t find it with other people like you can with a, with a comrade. Mind you, in the army you know they had the same thing. My dad, he used to stand on street corners with others from the First World War all talking and chatting to one another in groups of three or four.
AS: Well thank you very much. It’s been, it’s been fascinating listening to your story.
HB: I hope you have. Oh what about a cup of tea?
AS: I’d love a cup of tea. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Alfred Huberman
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Sadler
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-29
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHubermanA160329
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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01:10:46 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Alfred Huberman volunteered for the RAF when he was eighteen and trained as an air gunner. He describes the training and emphasises how physically hard it was. He flew 31 operations from RAF Elsham Wolds in Lancasters. These included operations over the Ruhr and the bombing of the V-3 weapon site at Mimoyecques. After he completed his tour he was stationed at a radar station but missed the camaraderie of his crew so volunteered for further active operational duties and served with the Pathfinder force at RAF Wyton. He completed a further 7 flights for Operations Manna and Exodus. After the war he was very active in forming the Air Gunner's Association and also served on the committee of the Bomber Command Association.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
France--Mimoyecques
Wales--Bridgend
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Carolyn Emery
576 Squadron
83 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
bombing of the Mimoyecques V-3 site (6 July 1944)
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
crewing up
fear
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Lancaster
Master Bomber
military ethos
military service conditions
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Pathfinders
physical training
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Wyton
training
V-3
V-weapon
Wellington
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/986/10556/PWhybrowFHT1611.2.jpg
318738d26c2a6b5ae7e4714302fe5987
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Whybrow, Frederick
F H T Whybrow
Description
An account of the resource
49 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Fred Whybrow DFC (1921 - 2005, 1321870, 170690 Royal Air Force) and consists of service documents, photographs and correspondence. After training in the United States, he completed two tours of operations as a navigator with 156 Squadron Pathfinders. After the war he served in Japan and Southeast Asia. He was demobbed in 1947.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Anne Roberts and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-09-26
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
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Whybrow, FHT
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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12 airmen
Description
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12 airmen wearing Sidcot suits. They are arranged in two rows in a rough field. On the reverse '1941 Stormy Down Wales. Joe Harrison, top left, next to Jeoff Green, who was shot down over France, fell 10,000 odd feet - his rear turret, hit a hay stack and survived. We got very drunk at Charing Cross station on meeting again. He suffered 2 breaks - legs & a broken arm. That happened in 1943.'
Date
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1941
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One b/w photograph
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eng
Type
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Photograph
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PWhybrowFHT1610,
PWhybrowFHT1611
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Wales--Bridgend
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
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Sue Smith
David Bloomfield
Temporal Coverage
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1941
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Stormy Down
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/818/10801/PFearnsH1701.2.jpg
8507b318fd85683be6792d3505bbeccd
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/818/10801/AFearnsH170724.1.mp3
ce8cfbef19c41548e6c2de7fa30a072a
Dublin Core
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Title
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Fearns, Harry
H Fearns
Description
An account of the resource
11 items. An oral history interview with Sergeant Harry Fearns (b. 1925, 1591683 Royal Air Force), seven photographs, his service badges and identity card. He flew operations as a flight engineer with 100 and 97 Squadrons.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Harry Fearns and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-07-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Fearns, H
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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BW: This is Brian Wright interviewing Sergeant Harry Fearns at 2.15 on Monday 24th of July 2017 at his home near Bury, Greater Manchester. Also with us is his daughter, Gillian Bailey. Harry, if I can start off with some straightforward questions for you, please. Can you tell me your date of birth, where you, and where you were born?
HF: Date of birth was 24 1 25.
BW: 24th of January 1925.
HF: Correct.
BW: And how many were there in your family? Did you have any brothers and sisters?
HF: Yes. There were six of us.
BW: How many brothers and sisters did you have in —?
HF: Well, I’ll start at, I was the eldest. There was Harry, Gordon, Joyce, Margaret. Was that my six? That sounds about right.
BW: That’s four.
HF: Four.
BW: There were two more.
HF: Oh.
GB: John. Brother, John.
HF: Oh yes, John.
GB: And Kathleen.
HF: And Kathleen.
BW: And what was, what was family life like? Where were you growing up at this time? Were you in Bury or were you, were you born elsewhere in the country?
HF: No. I was born in South Yorkshire.
BW: Ok. Whereabouts in South Yorkshire.
HF: In a little house [unclear] Barnsley.
BW: Barnsley. Ok.
HF: West Middleton, near Rotherham. But we always talked about Barnsley being the leading place not, not Rotherham.
BW: So, you were close to Barnsley.
HF: Yes.
BW: And where did you go to school?
HF: Wath on Dearne Grammar School.
BW: How do you —
HF: Wath upon, U P O N
BW: Wath upon —
HF: Wath. Separate word, upon. Upon.
BW: Wath upen?
HF: Dearne.
GB: Wath upon Dearne. So, it’s W A T H —
HF: D E A R.
GB: Upon-D E A R N E.
BW: Right. I haven’t heard of that. That’s [pause] Wath upon Dearne.
HF: Nice little place.
BW: Was it a bit of a village?
HF: It was a mining village really.
BW: And what did your dad do? Was he a miner?
HF: A miner.
BW: What about your mum?
HF: Too busy with the family to have any work.
BW: So, your dad was the worker and your mum looked after the rest of you.
HF: That’s it.
BW: And what was, what was your school like?
HF: Well, for the year, typical Wath, typical Grammar School.
BW: So, you went to a Grammar School then.
HF: Yes.
BW: And what age did you leave? You would be fourteen? Or was it after that?
HF: Sixteen. I left and I went to work for the Prudential Insurance Company. At the same time I applied to be in the RAF and of course that was about [pause] 1944. So, obviously that was during the war years.
BW: And what prompted you to join the RAF?
HF: I really wanted. I don’t know how I’d describe it.
GB: But you told me you’d always wanted to fly.
HF: Well, yes. That could be summed up.
BW: And did you want to be a pilot or a navigator or did you want to be say a gunner or or other crew member?
HF: Well, like those in reduced order.
BW: Ok.
HF: Pilot first. Navigator second. Engineer. Then a navigator err air gunner.
BW: And when you went for the interviews did you tell them that you wanted to be a pilot? What happened?
HF: Oh yeah.
BW: What happened so that you, you ended up as flight engineer?
HF: I think what one can say is that they’d got enough at that time. They hadn’t lost enough, putting it crudely. So, it depended what was available when we were called for to be signed on.
BW: So, you were working for Prudential Insurance at this time. Were you? What sort of position were you in the, in the company?
HF: Just a rent collector. Well, not so much rent. A collector of premiums.
BW: And the war had been going on a few years at this point can you recall at that time did it feel like it was coming to an end or that it was going to continue longer than it did?
HF: We thought it was coming to an end. Thought we were helping. All the flying and the fighting. Not that I did any fighting but [laughs]
BW: Did you join up with any friends?
HF: Not exactly friends but certainly some of my old, my pals went around about the same time.
BW: And you’d had an ambition to fly. What [pause] I’m trying to understand whether you and your friends perhaps wanted to get some action before you joined up or whether it was more that you’d heard a lot of the RAF and what it was doing.
HF: I think it’s the latter. You know, we just wanted to fly. We didn’t particularly want to shoot any guns or —
BW: And where, where did you start your training? Do you remember?
HF: St Johns Wood, London.
BW: And what was it like? Was it what you expected it to be?
HF: I thought it was great. We used to march from [pause] I’ve just forgotten the the place where we were sleeping. Something Court. And we used to have PT and exercises early in the morning. Then we did some studies. You might do an hour navigation, an hour generally but have to early on [pause] what was I about to say? [pause] Yeah. We moved on some of our exercises. We went in to Lord’s Cricket Ground. Marching up and down at Lords and doing sort of [pause] after about two months of that they farmed us out and in my particular case was to an aircrew training establishment at Newquay, Cornwall. Have you come across it?
BW: That’s quite a way away.
HF: It was.
BW: From London. It’s a good —
HF: Yeah.
BW: Hundred miles.
HF: But they needed, afterwards you realised they were, that near the end of the war they wanted to get rid of at least accommodation belonging to private people, I suppose. And as soon as they could get rid of the larger establishments then they got rid of places like Newquay. For example, the one after that we went to was Stormy Down in Glamorgan. Porthcawl. That’s the place it was near.
BW: Porthcawl.
HF: Yeah.
BW: It’s a lot easier to get from Newquay to Porthcawl then it is from Newquay to London.
HF: Yeah. Yeah. I read that.
BW: And so you were going through your basic training at this stage.
HF: Yes. This time.
BW: Whereabouts did you do your engineering training? Was that at Stormy Down?
HF: No. St Athan School of Technical Training. Massive place.
BW: Do you recall how long you were there?
HF: No. I would have thought it was about an hour err an hour, a year because they kept stopping as they found out, presumably found out that there were staff they didn’t need they moved them on. On to the next stage and the facilities would be left for some chaps behind. They would spend most of their time playing football.
BW: And so you were training at St Athan. It says, is it Number 4 School of Technical Training? Or trade training.
HF: Something like that. Is it on there.
BW: Yeah. It’s there.
HF: Oh, it’s there [laughs]
BW: And according to your logbook you got sixty five point two percent.
HF: Yeah.
BW: And you trained on Lancaster 1s and Mark 3s.
HF: Yes.
BW: Were they 1s or was that a type of aircraft that you selected to train on or were you —
HF: Oh no.
BW: Directed on to —
HF: You will go.
BW: And how did you feel about that? Being put on Lancasters.
HF: Perhaps relieved that we were not a gunner. An air gunner. It was interesting at the time.
BW: And it looks from your time of joining up to the time of finishing the course at St Athan that the war had actually ended during that time.
HF: That’s about right. Yes.
BW: What can you recall of that? That time? Were there, did you still feel like there was a role for you now that the war had ended or did you feel a bit surplus perhaps?
HF: No. I think we, it’s better to be moved to the southeast and fighting the Japs there. And the aircraft you saw were different to the two colour system. They were, and they had an idea was to give them some protection from other aircraft. Other aircraft attacking you. So, in fact the aircraft that you showed was the Lancaster 1 FE, Far East.
BW: And so it, was it a particular type or version of the Mark 1 that was dedicated for Far East service? Is that why it was called a Lancaster 1FE?
HF: Not really it was just, it was planes they took into the hangars and made adaptations. I couldn’t remember exactly which they gave us. Except obviously, the F, the FE bit.
BW: So, you left St Athan and I think you went to an OCU. An Operational Conversion Unit. And that was 230 OCU at Lindholme.
HF: Ah, yes. Yeah.
BW: And it, it shows from your logbook you starting there in 1947. What do you recall of Lindholme at that time?
HF: Typical Bomber Command plane. [pause] And we kept on doing the same job and by then for a time passed to Lindholme which was virtually mixed in next door to Finningley. And Lindholme, my main recollection of Lindholme was in nineteen, February I think it is, ’47 and the big freeze. We spent loads of time with shovels getting the ice and snow off the runways.
BW: So [laughs] so you joined up to fly and there you were on the runway.
HF: That’s it.
BW: With your spade.
HF: Yeah.
BW: Shovelling snow. At these OCUs it was common for the different trades to get together and form a crew. Can you recall how that happened for you? How you met your other crew mates?
HF: I can remember it. I remember it plain as anything. That we all went in a hangar and they called out, you know, ‘Joe. Joe Smith.’ These, they’d be the skippers, pilots would be called in and they’d say, ‘Right. Pick your navigator. Pick your engineer.’ And eventually build the crew.
BW: So, it sounds fairly similar to what they were doing actually in the war years. Putting them in a hangar and telling them to sort themselves out.
HF: Yeah.
BW: So, you wouldn’t necessarily, did you meet your pilot first or did you meet other crew mates first and then decide which pilot you wanted? Or did the pilot kind of choose you? Or —
HF: I can’t remember whether I was selected or what was left sort of thing.
BW: And what can you recall of your crew mates?
HF: I can’t explain really. Didn’t see a lot of one another except when we were flying.
BW: Were you not billeted together as a crew?
HF: Subject to rank, yes.
BW: So were you all NCOs or was one of —
HF: Well, no. One —
BW: One or two officers.
HF: What did you call him? Leicester? Register. Mike Register. I remember him. He definitely, he got in to the officer’s mess. And we, in other words the sergeants and flight sergeants we’d go in the NCOs mess.
BW: Do you remember how many of you were? Were NCOs? Was there only one officer? Was, was he the pilot? Presumably he was the pilot.
HF: He was. Mike Register.
BW: Yeah.
HF: And the navigator. Scott somebody. I can’t remember his name. He might be in here somewhere.
BW: And did you keep, when you were billeted were you billeted as NCOs or were you in some cases they were by trade. So the gunners would be kept together and so on but that doesn’t seem to have happened with you.
HF: No. It didn’t.
BW: So, you were all mixed trades but still in the NCOs—
HF: Yes.
BW: In the NCOs mess. From your logbook when you were on the OCU do you remember any sorties at that particular time? Any incidents during your, sort of training together?
[pause]
HF: No. I can’t.
BW: Ok. You moved from there I think, to 100 Squadron.
HF: Was that at Hemswell, as well?
BW: And they were as I think you say at Hemswell. But you converted when you joined the squadron. You converted to Lincolns.
HF: Yeah. Well —
BW: Instead of the Lancasters.
HF: Yes.
BW: Can you recall what —
HF: The passage of time. The Lincoln was a bit bigger.
BW: How would you compare it to a Lancaster? Did you have a favourite between the two?
HF: Oh yes. The old Lanc couldn’t be beaten in that respect.
BW: And how did the Lincoln differ from an engineer’s point of view?
HF: It seemed altogether quite efficient. Difficult to explain what it might be for the rest, all the crew and the different engines and things like that. But we had fewer, fewer mistakes. We didn’t have any crashes which was a surprise really.
BW: But having flown Lincolns you preferred the Lancasters still.
HF: Definitely.
BW: Did you notice any particular difference between the Mark 1 and the Mark 3 at all?
HF: 3.
BW: Was there anything notable?
[pause]
HF: No. All I think it was was a larger engine.
BW: And when it came to you actually preparing to carry out a sortie what would you as a flight engineer be doing? Can you recall what kind of things? What kind of steps you would be taking to prepare yourself and then carry out the sortie?
[pause]
HF: You’d check that the, the aircraft site you’d got, that they’d allocated to you, you’d be like, you’d like it so that that to be one as it were you had flown before but nevertheless you used to go out to the [pause] I’ve forgotten the name of the place where the planes were dumped.
BW: Dispersal.
HF: Dispersal. Thank you [laughs] You’d go out to your dispersal and as it were meet your aircraft. See this chief of the engineers. Yeah. And sort yourself with any, any problems there might be. And equally, the engineer would keep an eye on me as a flight engineer often looking down on them because they thought that the flyers were having an easy time.
BW: So even though you were perhaps taking more of a risk as air crew because you would be awarded flying pay in your, in your salary the engineers on the ground still looked down at you because you were not seen perhaps as proper engineers.
HF: Certainly, the chief engineers felt that.
BW: Had any of them flown do you know? Had any of the chief engineers been aircrew at all and then taken a ground job?
HF: No.
BW: So, they didn’t really know what risks you were taking then.
HF: Well, the stories one hears.
BW: You mentioned just before that when you were allocated an aircraft you always hoped to get one that you had flown before and it seems from from that and from your logbook you didn’t have a regular aircraft that you were allocated. Was there a favourite one or a particular one that you felt more comfortable with or was better for you and why would that be?
HF: Well, in a way they would all be the same because for example, you were coming up in the size of the Lincoln 1FE then what are the chances all of you would be on the higher plane? So, they were not all the same.
BW: At 100 Squadron there had been four or five Lancasters on the squadrons books that had flown over a hundred missions in the war. Were they still there at the time do you recall or had they been retired by that point?
HF: I don’t know. I can’t remember that.
BW: Were there any aircraft still there that had maybe war markings on them? Say the number of bomb sorties that they’d, you know sort of, bomb symbols to indicate the number of missions.
HF: They had. They had. I remember one or two like that but I can’t remember which they are.
BW: Did you try and avoid those at all?
HF: No [laughs] Well, the fighting was over then so we relaxed in some ways.
BW: So, you’ve been driven out to dispersal and you’ve had a look around the aircraft and a hand over’s taken place. Can you remember what you would then be doing as flight engineer once you get in the aircraft and you’re walking up or clambering over the main spar to get up to the flight engineer’s position? What kind of things would be on your list to do?
HF: Well, you get to know the aircraft which you know you probably hadn’t seen all that much in spite of the training.
GB: But did you have little checks that you had to do like checking dials or levers?
HF: Oh yes. That, by it’s —
GB: What would you have to do?
HF: Well, first of all you’d walk around the aircraft from the outside and check all the places that you can get at. When you’d done that you go inside the aircraft and check the things that were the responsibility of the engineer. For example, you wouldn’t interfere with the navigator and he wouldn’t interfere with your job. Should be. And once they were satisfied that the aircraft was serviceable then off you’d go on some exercise.
GB: Did you have to write anything down though? As a flight engineer did you have to check certain things and say yes that’s safe. Yes, that’s, did you have anything like that?
HF: Yeah. We did to some extent.
GB: And so what —
HF: I can’t remember them though [pause]
GB: Yeah.
BW: The flight engineer’s position in a Lancaster you’re almost off the, just off the right shoulder of the, of the pilot.
HF: Yeah.
BW: Was that any different in the Lincoln?
HF: No. No.
BW: So, you were in the same position whichever aircraft you flew and —
HF: Yes, I’d been certainly.
BW: And can you recall what you would be doing? Would you have to help the pilot during take-off or anything like that?
HF: Yes.
BW: What would you do?
HF: You’d be, bear in mind this is an aircraft, quite a largish one to us then and we’d got to get it flying. So you’re checking with the pilot on all his checks as well. Calling back to one another until you got ready for flying. In the meantime, we taxied out to the edge of the airport and off you go. Then the navigator would to some extent take over to put down where you were going to go to and see some of these on here.
BW: And there’s a mix in your logbook of day sorties and night sorties as well. And even on your first one I think air to sea firing on the first —
HF: Yes.
BW: Sortie there. So presumably you were out over the North Sea.
HF: Yes. Yes.
BW: And what were your night time sorties like?
HF: Boring [pause] We just had to do our exercise which probably lasted five hours or something like that. These long exercises were in many ways more interesting than the short ones.
BW: And you’d still be carrying out fighter affiliation or bombing exercises even though the war had finished.
HF: Yes.
BW: Did they brief you as to what your sort of longer term role was? Bearing in mind that Germany had been defeated and by this stage, 1947 the war with Japan had long been over as well. Did they, although you are still carrying out, let’s say typical training sorties that were appropriate to wartime did they give, did you get a sense of what your purpose was in the immediate post-war years? What your role was?
HF: I’ve no recollection of that. We were doing odd jobs back at Hemswell and Scampton hoping one day we’d go somewhere interesting. But what happened is that a high percentage of the blokes who had done their time, their Service and went back to Civvy Street and we probably wouldn’t see them again.
BW: Were you able to meet or interact with any of the veterans? And I say veterans, from those who had been on missions over Germany while you were on the squadron. You were fairly new. Were you able to meet any of those who’d been on the squadron and were being demobbed after wartime service?
HF: I thought we would have but I can’t remember any.
BW: When you look back at some of the missions or the sorties that you were tasked what can you recall of them? Are there any memorable ones that, that you can recall from there?
HF: I don’t think there were any real interesting memorable ones at all. You probably saw some of the air sea, air to sea firing [laughs] and dropping bombs in the Wash and things like that.
BW: Can you recall what the targets were in the Wash? Were they perhaps disused ships or were they —
HF: I think they were disused ships. Certainly made to look like ships. There’s an interesting one. Four hours familiarisation flying and three engine flying. Three engines, had obviously had some trouble in one of them and had come out of order so we were flying back on three which was no problem on a big plane.
BW: Did that happen often for you? Did you practice it?
HF: Yes. Oh, yes.
BW: And as an engineer can you recall any particular steps you had to take or difficulties involved in flying with only one engine on, available on one wing and two on the other because you’ve got double to power on.
HF: Yeah.
BW: What kind of problems would that cause you?
HF: Well, the main thing was trying to keep the power up on the other three to balance on the one that was out of order. And seeing as there was no bombs, no problems. We were, almost enjoyed it.
BW: And of course you weren’t, you had the advantage of not being shot at.
HF: True [laughs]
BW: There’s one note in here about Naval exercise. Presumably you’d coordinate with the Navy at some point.
HF: Yeah. I imagine so. I can’t remember it.
BW: And another one there where you’ve got noted power plant in the bomb bay.
HF: Ah, now there was a base near, in Egypt and they were reliable on us in Britain for their maintenance more and wanted a Lancaster to fly out in its bomb bays and then come back of course with the defective engine. And that was for some reason they sent me as engineer there. But planting the bomb bay, you know obviously then brought the bomb bay back, brought the bomb back with us. Have to confirm that.
BW: And there’s a few cross-country flights.
HF: Yes. [laughs]
BW: Pamphlet dropping. And air sea rescue.
HF: Over Lancashire and places like that.
GB: What was the pamphlet dropping, dad? What were you doing?
HF: This was just after the war to keep people cheered up.
BW: All your exercises, or all your sorties are going around the UK. There aren’t any recorded for going overseas except one which we see here going to —
HF: [unclear] just in to.
BW: Saint Quentin.
HF: Germany. Yeah.
BW: Saarbrücken.
HF: Saarbrücken. Yeah. [ Benebruck. Benebruck?]
BW: Osnabruck.
HF: Osnabruck, is it? Yes. So, it is.
BW: That looks like your first time over, over Germany.
HF: Yeah. It probably is.
BW: Can you recall anything about that particular one?
HF: I can’t. No.
[pause]
BW: This one sounds an interesting one. In fact, there’s two. This is late November 1947 and one daylight sortie is formation and fighter affiliation and the other is low level cross country. So which was that? Formation and fighter affil.
HF: Fighter affiliation. Yeah.
BW: Oh that. Yeah.
HF: And then a day or two after low level cross country.
BW: What did it feel like? Flying at low level.
HF: Great. Super it was.
BW: Were there any height restrictions at that particular time?
HF: Yes, I’m sure there were. I can’t remember. I can’t remember anything special about it.
BW: I think they might have been a lot more relaxed then they were. Than they are now.
HF: Yes. A combination of both. Of being relaxed and being bored.
BW: Was a Lincoln alright to handle at low level?
HF: Yes. Oh yes [pause] How’s that for a long flight? Scampton. Ten. Ten minutes [laughs]
[pause]
BW: So, by this stage late 1947 your time on 100 Squadron appears to be coming to an end and I believe you joined 97 Squadron after that. Can you remember?
HF: Yes, I was there for a month or two. I don’t remember a lot about it. Of course, if we were in the right places it was quite famous.
BW: It had been a Pathfinder Squadron.
HF: That’s right. Yeah.
BW: At one time.
HF: Yeah.
BW: But there’s no record of any flights that you took with that, with that squadron.
HF: Not at all.
BW: No.
HF: Perhaps at that yeah. That time they wouldn’t have heard of us [unclear]
BW: Can you recall what your CO was like at 100 Squadron? Did you see much of him?
HF: No. I didn’t. Just made sure he had his salute if he passed you.
BW: What was the social life like in the RAF at this time?
HF: In our case we used to drive in to Lincoln for our social life. Any other direction if you look at your map you’ll find there’s nothing that way, nothing that way.
BW: Lincoln is the nearest big city, isn’t it? [pause] Did it feel any different for you having lived through the war years and the rationing and the blackouts and things was there a palpable difference when you were in the RAF and going into Lincoln let’s say for social events?
HF: No. I can’t say that there was.
BW: There’s a photograph here of you in uniform and it looks like you’re on, you’re on the seafront.
HF: It probably is Skegness or somewhere like that. Or Cleethorpes.
BW: Did you get much time off at all from from duties?
HF: Oh, yes.
BW: And did you socialise as a crew or did you have any particular other friends that you, you met up with in there for instance?
HF: Well, I would socialise. Yes. Not necessarily in the same crew, in fact. You know.
BW: And did you get to know any of the other crews?
HF: Yes. Must have done. Flying with them. But I can’t remember much about it.
BW: There’s another picture here.
HF: That’s a Lincoln, isn’t it?
BW: That’s a Lancaster.
HF: Is it?
BW: And it looks, there must be at least three of you in formation because you’re in one aircraft and there’s two others in the, in the picture. That must be when you’re at 100 Squadron.
GB: Can you remember taking that picture or did somebody else take it and give it to you, dad?
HF: I think the latter but I can’t remember. So —
BW: There’s another picture here which shows the other members of the crew and I’m guessing that that is the navigator who’s the officer. There.
HF: Oh, most certainly, yes. Yes.
BW: Second left.
HF: Yeah.
BW: And that’s by the rear turret of what must be a Lincoln.
HF: [unclear]
BW: Can you recall any of the people in the, in the photograph at all?
HF: Yeah. Sparky there. Willy, the wireless operator there. You mentioned the navigator.
BW: Think that’s him. Yeah. Isn’t it?
HF: In the middle.
BW: Second left.
HF: Flat cap.
BW: Yeah.
HF: Then me. Then the rear gunner. I must have missed somebody out because there’s another navigator there.
[pause]
BW: But none of their names come back to you.
HF: Every now and again. And there’s our navigator down in the, or our bomb aimer down on the floor.
BW: What happened to when you left 97 Squadron? Were you then demobbed? Was this the beginning of National Service? Were you then demobbed after that or did you continue in the RAF for a little while longer?
HF: No. I [pause] yes, I got demobbed or I took demob and that was either from [pause] what’s the place near Doncaster?
BW: Finningley. Finningley?
HF: No, the —
BW: Hemswell.
HF: Hemswell. Yeah. I can see it now. Going over Hemswell and then we signed up all our papers and what have you at Scampton. No. That was at Hemswell. And from Hemswell I was taken to Blackpool and released.
BW: Presumably that was Squires Gate. That’s where they had the big —
HF: Yes. That’s right.
BW: Big Reception Centre. And what happened from there? Did you have a job to go back to or did you just go home to South Yorkshire?
HF: Well, in the latter there was no job as such. I was accepted by the people I worked with at the time, the Prudential and started working there.
BW: And how long did you work —
HF: In Civvy Street.
BW: How long did you work for the Prudential for?
HF: Not long. One year. Two year.
BW: And what, what did you go on to do after that?
HF: Rent collecting.
BW: But not with the Prudential. With another company.
HF: No. Well, Prudential didn’t have many accommodation now for —
GB: So, it was the local council, was it that you —?
HF: It was the local council. Yeah.
GB: Council housing.
BW: And when, when did you get married?
[pause]
HF: About [pause] was it in nineteen —
GB: I remember it was in July. I don’t know which year though. I can’t remember. I wouldn’t. I don’t know.
HF: Well, well, well. I would have laid my money on her remembering that.
BW: Did you stay in South Yorkshire?
HF: Yes. For a couple of years. Then went to Harlow in Essex.
BW: What prompted you to move down there?
HF: Plenty of opportunity. They were building what, eight big towns. In the south mainly. So, I thought it would be best of new opportunities down there. And so I worked there. At some stage I moved up to Harlow in Essex and up to the east. To Doncaster, wasn’t it?
GB: No. After Harlow dad you moved up to Nuneaton because I was born in Harlow, wasn’t I? And we left Harlow in 1972 when you got that job as a housing manager.
HF: Yes.
GB: At Nuneaton Council.
HF: Oh, [unclear]
GB: The date sticks in my mind because that’s when I did my O levels and I remember —
HF: Yes.
GB: Us just moving up just after that.
HF: Oh aye.
BW: And then from there you obviously moved up to Manchester, or Greater Manchester.
HF: Well, that's by accident if anything.
GB: Yeah. It’s only a couple of years ago when dad —
HF: Yeah.
GB: Couldn’t live on his own anymore in Nuneaton.
BW: Yeah. Did you manage to keep in touch with any of your crew mates after, after leaving the RAF or did you just all go your separate ways?
HF: We all went our separate ways. I don’t remember any of them because we all got demobbed as it were in any number. You know, in our number but in my experience.
BW: You were demobbed individually.
HF: Yes.
GB: You know John Whitlock, in Harlow. He was in the RAF. Did you know him when you were in the RAF?
HF: No.
GB: So, you just met him in Harlow and he just happened to be in the RAF.
HF: Yes.
GB: Right.
BW: And the, how did you hear about the Memorial for Bomber Command?
HF: I was in RAFA, so you got all the bumph and publicity for some of the activities. And I remember going to Coningsby. To the, that’s not Bomber Command, is it? That’s —
BW: It was. It was a bomber base.
HF: Yeah. But since then.
GB: Are you thinking of the reunions of Project Propeller that you’ve been to occasionally?
HF: No. But that does come in to it though, love. Yeah. Did you know of that?
GB: Project Propeller is when local pilots take you to your reunions isn’t it?
HF: Yes. That’s sums it up.
BW: Have you managed to get to the Memorial site at Lincoln? At Canwick Hill.
HF: No.
BW: Or not.
HF: Is that where the new site is?
BW: That’s yeah. That’s where the new site is.
HF: Is that in Scampton?
BW: It’s not far from Scampton. It’s probably five or six miles. Something like that.
HF: Yeah. Towards Lincoln.
BW: Yes.
HF: Yeah.
BW: Yeah. Scampton’s just north of Lincoln isn’t it. So, as you, as you come south you actually go —
HF: What did you actually call it?
BW: Scampton. So, as you go towards the city and then go up the valley at the other side and that is Canwick Hill and that’s where the Memoria is.
HF: Oh right.
[pause]
BW: Well, I think I’ve gone through all the questions that I, that I had for you.
HF: Ok.
BW: So it just leaves me to say thank you very much for your time, Harry and thank you for doing the interview.
HF: Pleasure.
BW: Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Harry Fearns
Creator
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Brian Wright
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AFearnsH170724, PFearnsH1701
Format
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00:59:54 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Harry Fearns was born and lived in Barnsley South Yorkshire. He left school at 16 and joined the Prudential Insurance Company as a door to door premiums collector before joining the Royal Air Force in 1944 as a flight engineer. Following initial training at St John’s Wood London and Newquay, Harry completed his training at RAF Stormy Down and RAF St Athan. During training he worked on Lancaster Mk1 and Mk3 aircraft being modified to operate in the Far East, although the war ended before Harry joined an operational squadron. Harry was posted to No 230 Operational Conversion Unit at RAF Lindholme in 1947 where his main recollection was clearing the runways of snow and ice during the very severe winter of 1946/7. From there he was posted to 100 Squadron at RAF Hemswell where he converted to Lincolns although he recalled a preference for the Lancaster. During 1947 the squadron carried out a number of night and daytime exercises, live firing and bombing range practices. After a short period with 97 Squadron, Harry was demobbed late in 1947 and returned to The Prudential Insurance Company before commencing a career in local housing.
Contributor
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Jim Sheach
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Wales--Bridgend
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
England--Yorkshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Cornwall (County)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1946
1947
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
100 Squadron
97 Squadron
aircrew
flight engineer
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
RAF Hemswell
RAF Lindholme
RAF St Athan
RAF Stormy Down
Tiger force
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/848/10844/AHabberfieldM180111.2.mp3
fa5e71c1067db31d3b958cdcb17ee814
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Habberfield, Margaret
M Habberfield
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history with Margaret Habberfield (b. 1923) and a group photograph. She served as a Women's Auxiliary Air Force telephonist at RAF Upwood and RAF Stormy Down.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Margaret Habberfield and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Habberfield, M
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
MH: I'll try and tell you.
AM: Right. So today is Thursday they 11th of January I had to think about that. Thursday the 11th of January. It’s 2018 and this is Annie Moody for International Bomber Command and today I'm with Margaret Habberfield in Melton Mowbray where Margaret lives and Margaret is going to tell me all about Bomber Command in the war. But before we start on that Margaret you were born in 1923 so tell me a little bit about your childhood. Where you were born and what your parents did.
MH: I didn't know my parents. I don't want to go into that part of it.
AM: Alright. No problem.
MH: It’s not nice.
AM: Ok.
MH: I don’t have, my parents died years and years ago.
AM: Ok. As a child though where did you live?
MH: I don’t want to say. Tell you that.
AM: Oh ok.
MH: Its rather personal. I haven’t mentioned that to anybody.
AM: Not, absolutely not a problem then. Where shall we start then? Shall we start with you going in the RAF?
MH: Yes. I went in when I was sixteen.
AM: Ok.
MH: I put my age up to eighteen but I was only sixteen.
AM: You told fibs.
MH: At the time.
AM: Right. So how did that come about? Why did you want to join the RAF?
MH: This is where I don’t want to be.
AM: Tell me about joining. So how did you —
MH: I joined up when I was sixteen.
AM: Right.
MH: And I said I was eighteen but I wasn’t but I just wanted to get away and get —
AM: Right. So that’s, that’s what —
MH: Yes.
AM: What made you join.
MH: Yes.
AM: So where did you join? Where did you start off?
MH: I think it was at Gloucester. The first training. Or, no, Harrogate.
AM: So if you were sixteen that would be 1939. So was it just before the war had started?
MH: Yeah. I was from 1941. 1941 to 1945.
AM: Right. Ok.
MH: I was in.
AM: Right. So, so what was it like then actually joining up?
MH: I thoroughly enjoyed every day.
AM: Yeah.
MH: I really did.
AM: What was the initial bit like? What, you know you’d be in digs with other girls and training.
MH: Oh, I was in a billet. It was massive, big billets until I got a rank. Then I had my own room.
AM: Right.
MH: You see. But I thoroughly enjoyed my life in the RAF.
AM: So, when you, tell me about the early days in the RAF. What was the training like?
MH: Well, it was, you had to go training every day in the first instance to get to know what the training was all about. What to do, what not to do and how to get on with it. And in your billet how to make your bed and this sort of thing which was inspected every day, every week. Things like that.
AM: How many —
MH: I got on with everybody.
AM: Yeah. How many of you were there?
MH: In the, in the one billet?
AM: Yeah.
MH: There was about forty. Twenty. Forty.
AM: So quite big.
MH: Yes, it was. Very very big.
AM: Yeah. What was it like living with all girls?
MH: Well, they were all different weren’t they? Everybody was different but I got on with every one of them. Great. We had the ablutions at the other end of the billet.
AM: So what was that like?
MH: It was fine.
AM: The ablutions.
MH: Well, you know.
AM: Describe them to me.
MH: We were all very young and you had to take your turn to get to a shower or a bath whichever you wanted and get yourself sorted, cleaned and so on and so forth. And then the next one took her turn and that’s how it went on. Then we went then to the mess to have breakfast and your meals of course which was rather nice. Meals were lovely. No faults at all there.
AM: Right.
MH: They were nice. Everything was fine. And you had PT. That sort of thing. Which was in a hangar with all the other WAAFs. That was great because you had a good laugh over that.
AM: Who was, what were the instructors like? Were they men or women?
MH: Oh, very nice. No. They were, they were, they were ranked obviously.
AM: Yes.
MH: Sergeants most of them but PT probably. But they were fine. They were really fine. No problems. I had no problems with any of them.
AM: So, you really enjoyed it.
MH: I did. I think it’s a lovely life for them to join, for girls to join up now.
AM: Yeah. So how long was the training for? How long did that last for?
MH: About six weeks training and for me that was—
AM: And that was your general training.
MH: General.
AM: So —
MH: Ordinary training.
AM: Yeah.
MH: Yes.
AM: Marching and all the rest of it.
MH: Yes. Oh yes. You had that every day.
AM: And where were you? Did you say, Harrogate did you say?
MH: Harrogate and Gloucester. I think that was the first. It’s going back such a long time I can’t remember it all.
AM: So then once you’d done your six weeks training.
MH: Then you were posted to a station.
AM: Ok.
MH: A permanent. Which was RAF Upwood.
AM: Upwood.
MH: And I was there for a long long time.
AM: Right. So how did they decide where they were going to post you and what you were going to do?
MH: Well, it was up to you what you, what —
AM: Right.
MH: What trade you wanted to do. You were given an option as to which trade you wanted to do, what you wanted to be in and I wanted to be in signals and I stayed in signals.
AM: Right.
MH: Telephone. Telephonist.
AM: So what, why did you want to be in signals?
MH: I thought it was interesting. I found it, I didn’t want to go in the cookhouse or places like that.
AM: No.
MH: I wanted to get on and be different and I did.
AM: And you did.
MH: I did.
AM: So what was that? The training for that like then? No. Tell me about getting to RAF Upwood first of all then.
MH: We went straight to Upwood.
AM: So —
MH: And there I stayed. Back in to the billet with the rest of the WAAFs.
AM: Ok.
MH: Made friends with other WAAFs.
AM: What, what were the gradings? So, for the men it was LAC2 and then LAC1 and then corporal.
MH: Corporal. Sergeant.
AM: So what were the gradings for the for the girls?
MH: Well, they were the same.
AM: Were they?
MH: Exactly the same.
AM: So at this point what would you have been then when you —
MH: Well, an ordinary AC.
AM: Right.
MH: I was just an ordinary AC at the beginning because the others —
AM: So that was ordinary AC.
MH: That’s when we all joined up together and that’s when you were an AC. So Aircraft Woman.
AM: Aircraft Woman. Right.
MH: ACW.
AM: So as an Aircraft Woman now you’re off to RAF Upwood then. So whereabouts was that? [pause] I can look it up. It doesn’t matter.
MH: Isn’t it in Towcester?
AM: I don’t know. Gary will know.
MH: I think it is. Yeah. I think so. But it was a lovely camp. Everything was fine. No problems at all.
AM: So what, what was there? What was at RAF Upwood? Was it, was that a base? Were you all WAAFs or were you mixed? Was it a —
MH: Oh, no. Mixed.
AM: So it was a proper —
MH: Oh yes. Mixed.
AM: Ok.
MH: Aircraft.
AM: So, it was a bomber base.
MH: Yes.
AM: Right. And what year are we now in the war?
MH: ’41. ’42.
AM: About.
MH: I started at ’41 and I came out at ’45.
AM: Right. Ok. So in, so in 1941 you’ve done your basic training, you’re there in Upwood and you’re going to go in signals. So, what was that like? What was the training like and —
MH: Oh yes. We had to go through training obviously to get trained to use a switchboard. A massive switchboard. Not like they are today. Just plugging in.
AM: The ones that you see.
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Where there’s plugs all over the place.
MH: And I worked my way up. In the end I was in charge of eight WAAFs.
AM: Right.
MH: And I got on with everybody.
AM: When you started how long did the training last? Can you remember?
MH: About three, oh a month at least.
AM: A month.
MH: A month to five weeks.
AM: And that was —
MH: Training.
AM: So that was you’ve learned the switchboard.
MH: We learned the switchboard. Then you were posted to this switchboard and there you stayed.
AM: Right. And that was the switchboard for the whole camp.
MH: That was the whole camp.
AM: Right.
MH: Outside calls. Incoming calls.
AM: So at first you were one of many girls on the —
MH: Oh yes. Yes.
AM: How many of you would there have been in the —
MH: Well, in my section it was, there was eight of us.
AM: Right. Because how big was the camp then?
MH: Oh, it was a big camp.
AM: How many —
MH: Upwood. Very big.
AM: So how, how many switchboards? One.
MH: Three in the one that I was in. There was three.
AM: Right. So three switchboards.
MH: Yeah.
AM: In and out.
MH: They had to be manned day and night.
AM: Right. So it was twenty four hours.
MH: Twenty four hours.
AM: Were you doing shift work or —
MH: Yes.
AM: Yeah. What was that like then? Working shifts.
MH: It was fine.
AM: Yeah.
MH: No problem.
AM: You enjoyed it.
MH: Yeah. Back to our beds and get up in the mornings and get on to your job.
AM: How long were the shifts? How many hours were the shifts?
MH: Eight hours.
AM: Eight. So eight. Eight hour shifts. And what did you do the rest of the time? What was the, what was the social life like?
MH: There was plenty to do. No. There was plenty to do, you know. Dances in the sergeant’s camp rooms. PT. Walking. Going into town. Things like that.
AM: Yeah.
MH: You know.
AM: And did you, did you meet and mix with the chaps?
MH: Yes. Yes. Yes.
AM: Yeah. So were the dances on the base?
MH: On the base. Oh yes.
AM: Right.
MH: Always on the base.
AM: Yeah.
MH: They were very nice too. We thoroughly enjoyed those.
AM: Did you get dressed up or were you all still in uniform?
MH: No. Still stayed in uniform.
AM: You were all in uniform. Right. And then you said you got made up. You worked your way up.
MH: I did. I worked my way up.
AM: So what were the different, what different grades did you work your way through? You started, you were Aircraft Woman.
MH: Yeah.
AM: Ordinary.
MH: Then corporal.
AM: Then a corporal.
MH: Then sergeant.
AM: Then a sergeant. So you ended up in charge of the girls on the switchboard.
MH: I did. Yes.
AM: Right. Did you enjoy, what was that like? Managing a load of girls.
MH: Great. They were fine.
AM: Yeah.
MH: I had no problems with any of them.
AM: And what about the chaps? Did they —
MH: They were, yeah, they were fine. I mean they’ve got them on here on the band.
AM: I’m going to ask you about the band in a minute.
MH: They were, they were, everybody was fine. The officers were fine. No problems at all. My signals officer he was next door to the telephone exchange. He was next door. Any problems I had to go to him to sort things out.
AM: Yeah. With regards to the, the chaps obviously flying off did you see, I don’t quite know how to ask the question. What involvement, if any did you have with the bombers going off on operations?
MH: Well, lots of phone calls obviously. And we’d see them going off. We got to know them. We were allowed to go and see but so far obviously. We weren’t allowed to go to near the aircraft. But they were there. We heard them going and coming back.
AM: Right.
MH: That sort of thing.
AM: Yeah.
MH: Get to speak to them. Get friendly with them. Meet them if we wanted to. Get to the NAAFI. Always in the NAAFI. Plenty to see and do in the NAAFI. That was fine.
AM: I bet there are a lot of stories isn’t there?
MH: Yeah.
AM: About fraternisation.
MH: Well, there was that. There was that.
AM: Yeah.
MH: You got friendly obviously.
AM: When you say lots of phone calls is this, what type of phone calls were they?
MH: All to do with the RAF.
AM: Right. But with regards so would family be phoning in.
MH: No family.
AM: No.
MH: No. No. No. No. No.
AM: No. So it was all operational stuff.
MH: ‘Put me through to sergeant — ’so and so or, ‘Put me through to —'
AM: Right.
MH: Officer so and so. That sort of thing.
AM: So, tell me, I’m looking at a picture on your wall of the band. Tell me again about the band.
MH: Well, we had that was once a week we had that band.
AM: Ok.
MH: That was at Stormy Down. That’s in, near Bridgend, in South Wales.
AM: Right. So you moved.
MH: Moved from —
AM: You moved bases.
MH: That’s the base I moved from to there.
AM: Right. Ok.
MH: And that’s where we got a band up. It was just sort of automatically got up. Who wanted to join joined. And I joined.
AM: So what did you do in the band?
MH: The bugle I had.
AM: Right. Could you already play it or did you —
MH: Sorry?
AM: Could you already play a bugle?
MH: No.
AM: Right.
MH: I was taught to play it.
AM: Who taught you to play it then?
MH: A sergeant on the camp. There he is down there. He taught us.
AM: And what did, where did you play? Just on the base?
MH: On the base.
AM: Yeah.
MH: Yes. On the base. Or if they had any dos on the camp we would play.
AM: Right.
MH: Perhaps you’d march through the camp playing. But mostly in a, in a hangar. Once a week we had that and it was really, really there’s officers there. WAAF officers and RAF officers. It was really really lovely.
AM: I’m looking at the photo.
MH: Yes.
AM: It’s a complete mix isn’t it?
MH: Yes.
AM: Which one are you?
MH: You try and find me. At the back.
AM: Oh Margaret.
[pause]
MH: I’ll give you an idea.
AM: Right. Let me have a look.
MH: At the back.
AM: Oh, that’s quite hard.
MH: The fourth one in.
AM: Do you know what, that one?
MH: Yeah.
AM: I was just going to say.
MH: Yeah.
AM: I’m looking at the shape of your face.
MH: Yes. That’s me. Of course, we’re standing obviously on a bench to get the right photograph.
AM: Yeah. Well yeah. Either that or you’re very tall. So in the band there’s quite, there’s a lot of you.
MH: There was a lot of us. They were lovely. We had a grand time.
AM: There’s twenty odd of you.
MH: Great time.
AM: Yeah. Who’s the dog? Who did the dog belong to?
MH: The corporal down at the bottom. He looked, he looked after her. Yeah. She was a beautiful dog.
AM: How come you had to changes bases? Was that —
MH: Well, they just posted you.
AM: Yeah. So how long were you on the second. What was the second base that you were on? You said.
MH: Stormy Down.
AM: Stormy Down. That’s right. And that was another bomber.
MH: Oh yes. Yeah.
AM: Another bomber base.
MH: We used to hear them going off and we used to worry about them coming back and, you know that was natural wasn’t it?
AM: Yeah.
MH: We got to know some of the navigators or pilots or whatever wondering had they all come back safe and sound. That sort of thing.
AM: What was it like when they didn’t?
MH: Well, it was not nice when you knew that they weren’t coming back or they didn’t coming back. It wasn’t. You know. You naturally worry don’t you if you know them that we’re talking about.
AM: Yeah. So any stories to tell me about fun things that you got up to?
MH: No. I got to know one or two of them and got friendly with them. Went out with them but that was it. You know, you had to be very very careful.
AM: Yes. As girls.
MH: It was taught to us, pumped in to us what to do, what not to do. What was so and so like. What was that meant to be. What’s that sort of thing. What you do. What you don’t do. Take care. Be careful.
AM: Yeah.
MH: Which we did.
AM: Be a good girl.
MH: Oh yes. Yeah.
AM: Well, yeah. I can’t imagine what it would be like on a huge base like that with, because there would be far less of you then there were of the boys.
MH: Oh yes.
AM: So I would imagine you were all in great demand for dances.
MH: Yeah.
AM: And things like that.
MH: Yes. Well, we had a nice time at the dances and used to go out with them and meet them and [pause] but that was it.
AM: Yeah. It does sound, I mean you sound as if you just enjoyed the whole experience.
MH: I did. Yes. I did. I liked it very much. I liked every minute of it.
AM: And you were in there for the whole of the war.
MH: I did.
AM: So you came out as a sergeant. You ended up as a sergeant.
MH: I did. Yes.
AM: Yeah. Which is quite high up for a WAAF isn’t it? That’s good. And when did you come out Margaret, of the —?
MH: Well, at —
AM: At the end of the war.
MH: Yes.
AM: So what did you do then?
MH: My demob number came up so I just came out.
AM: Right. So what, what —
MH: But I stayed in Wales.
AM: Right.
MH: And I met my husband.
AM: Where did you meet him?
MH: In Neath.
AM: Right.
MH: This, that side of Swansea.
AM: Yes. I can, I can visualise where that is. And he was in the Navy I think you said.
MH: He was Navy.
AM: Where did you meet him? At a dance?
MH: The pub.
AM: In a pub.
MH: Yeah.
AM: So what —
MH: He used to come back and forth. We used to meet up and that was the end of that. Got married and had her.
AM: And had your daughter. The, in the between bit from being demobbed and meeting your husband and getting married did you, what work did you do?
MH: I started nursing.
AM: Oh, you did. You were a nurse.
MH: I went into nursing.
AM: Right.
MH: That was what I took up.
AM: And did you do the full training?
MH: I did.
AM: And become a nurse. Because that’s, how long was the training for that? That’s about three years?
MH: It was very very hard. Very hard. But I enjoyed that too. I got on with everybody.
AM: Yeah.
MH: I liked it.
AM: So how long did you work as a nurse for?
MH: Oh gosh. Up until I had Stephanie.
AM: Right —
MH: And then —
AM: And that —
MH: I had to see to her then.
AM: And you lived in Wales. Did your husband stay in the Navy?
MH: No. He came out as well. So we got married, set up house. We had a house.
AM: Right. And what did he do?
MH: He was in the South Wales Electricity Board. He ended —
AM: Oh right.
MH: He ended up a manager.
AM: Right. So you lived up happily ever after.
MH: We did.
AM: But you obviously think back fondly.
MH: Oh, I do.
AM: To your time as a WAAF.
MH: Yes, I do. I do.
AM: Yeah. And here you are in an RAF home.
MH: Here I am. My husband died of cancer and my daughter kept on saying, ‘You can’t stay in the bungalow,’ Which was my own bungalow, ‘On your own.’ Because they were over, she was over here. She wanted me to get nearer so that she could —
AM: And you were still in Wales at this time.
MH: I was in Wales at the time. To keep an eye on me.
AM: Right.
MH: So I came over here. In Oakham then, of course.
AM: Right.
MH: Went straight to where they are. And I stayed in Oakham and they wanted to make sure that I was taken care of, looked after and here I am.
AM: And here you are.
MH: And I applied here.
AM: I’m looking at a picture of your daughter and son in law. Both in the RAF.
MH: They are both.
AM: So what rank is your daughter in the RAF?
MH: She’s also a sergeant.
AM: She’s a sergeant.
MH: Yes.
AM: As well.
MH: She’s in, she’s in air traffic control.
AM: Is she? Right.
MH: And he’s a chief technician.
AM: And you said that they’re both based at Wittering.
MH: Yes. But they travel every day from Oakham to Wittering.
AM: Yeah. Well, it sounds like you’ve had a really interesting life.
MH: I did. Yes. I did. I’ve had some nice WAAF friends. I used to go to their homes on leave or we’d go up to London. Have a weekend up in London on leave. That sort of thing.
AM: Yeah. So that, so this was in the middle of the war. So, what did you do in London?
MH: Well, we used to go to a show or walk around. Go to the shops. Have a look around and that sort of thing.
AM: Just for the day or the —
MH: For the day.
AM: Oh, you went just for the day.
MH: Or a forty eight hour pass we had.
AM: So, stay in digs or —?
MH: Oh yes. We had to stay in digs.
AM: Yeah.
MH: B&B mostly.
AM: Right.
MH: We couldn’t afford these expensive hotels.
AM: It sounds brilliant. There’s a war going on all around you but you are enjoying every minute of it.
MH: Yes.
AM: Why would you not? I’ll switch off.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Margaret Habberfield
Creator
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Annie Moody
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-01-11
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHabberfieldM180111
Language
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:20:49 audio recording
Description
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Margaret Habberfield was born in 1923. At sixteen she joined the Royal Air Force after giving her age as eighteen. She began her six-week general training at Harrogate and was billeted with around 20 other girls. Margaret was then posted to RAF Upwood and RAF Stormy Down. She was a telephonist in signals and worked eight-hour shifts. Margaret was in charge of eight Women’s Auxiliary Air Force members; became corporal and eventually sergeant. Her social life included darts, physical training and attending dances in the town. She learned to play the bugle and joined a band when transferred to RAF Stormy Down in South Wales. After the war Margaret stayed in Wales and became a nurse.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Harrogate
Wales--Bridgend
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Julie Williams
Temporal Coverage
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1941
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
entertainment
ground personnel
military living conditions
physical training
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Upwood
training
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/544/11121/AHookerFJ170826.2.mp3
34e7b8ab3c905449d0e448d8867cb8ed
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Hooker, Fred
Fred J Hooker
F J Hooker
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Hooker, FJ
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. Two oral history interviews with Sergeant Fred Hooker (b. 1924, 1850487 Royal Air Force) and his scrapbook containing photographs and documents. He flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 102 Squadron and became a prisoner of war on 12 September 1944.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2016-05-25
2017-08-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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TO: Ok. Good morning, good afternoon or good evening, whatever the case may be. This interview is being recorded for the International Bomber Command Centre. The gentleman I’m speaking to is Mr Fred Hooker and my name is Thomas Ozel and we are recording this interview on the 26th of August 2017.
FH: Yeah.
TO: Can you tell me a bit about where you grew up and where you were born?
FH: Yes. That’s about four miles away from where we are now in a village called Hartley Wintney back in 1924. Did all my schooling in the same village and I joined the Service from the actual village which I [pause] getting stuck now. I joined the Air Training Corps when that was first formed in 1941 and that was the, really the start of my liking to, in wanting to join the RAF and join the bomber crews because we used to go to RAF Odiham for different lectures and that in the Air Training Corps. And while we were there we were often had flights in various aircraft having the written permission from the parents to fly and my first aircraft was a Tiger Moth that I flew in. And on another occasion I went up in a Blenheim aircraft sitting in a gun turret. Of course, the gun turret was made safe, or the guns were made safe and from there it got me bugged and I wanted to join the Air Force. Not only that around the same time one afternoon in the garden I was actually digging a shelter for the bombers and there was a whole load of aircraft coming down across the sky from the Reading area and it turned out to be the first attack, thousand aircraft raid on Cologne. They come over the village and I stood there along with other neighbours watching these aircraft. I could see the gun turrets moving, the guns moving, the chaps waving to us as they were flying over and that really gave me the bug to join the RAF and hopefully become a member of a bomber crew which eventually I did and joining up in the actual Air Force on the 29th of March 1943. And I had to report to Lords Cricket Ground for my, well I joined the Service and where I had all the inoculations etcetera. I think there was about a fortnight I was in London after which I was posted to a place called Bridgnorth in Shropshire as I was under training as a wireless operator/air gunner at the time and fortunately during the training I enjoyed Bridgnorth. All the square bashing, PTs, never so fit in my life as I was then. And as I say I was posted to Bridgnorth. Done that and then from there I went to RAF Yatesbury for wireless training in Wiltshire which I thoroughly enjoyed. With regards the Morse Code I’d done some in the Air Training Corps and I improved my reading and sending of the messages but unfortunately when it got around to technical details I’m afraid Freddie came unstuck ‘cause we used to have tests every so often to make sure that we could carry on in the course. But as I say I failed one test and I remustered to a straight air gunner. That was, I had to go to Sheerness for the remustering and there I met some other chaps that had been on a pilot’s course and a bomb aimer’s course and become very friendly with them. In actual fact the Les, Les Duncan from Sunderland, we palled up very well very quickly and in actual fact in the end he became our tail gunner on the crew that I was flying with. Which was quite exciting because we were inseparable in those days. We’d both done another course of physical training etcetera in Bridlington, Yorkshire along the sea front. There was no, no parade grounds or anything so it was all done along on the promenade which was a bit drafty at times as we were there in the winter months. But anyhow we, from there we were posted to Number 7 AGS in Stormy Down, South Wales. And of course, we didn’t know until we both arrived there that we was going to meet again because the various chaps went to various units of the gunnery. Different Gunnery Schools. But fortunate for me Harry and Les came to the same Gunnery School and we got on marvellous and although we weren’t actually in the same classrooms for our lectures etcetera we became good friends. And when it come around to we had to start using guns to fire which was quite exciting really thinking we was going to go straight into the aircraft and use Browning. 303 Browning guns. Instead of that we went on twelve bore shooting at clay pigeons as the start of our firing which, that led to flying in an Anson after that with camera guns which to me was quite exciting. I always fancied cameras but never really got around to studying photography to that extent. But we had taken the photographs of the, no the Faery Battle, sorry. The Faery Battle aircraft used to attack us and we used to, that was towing a drogue which we used to have to fire at. And from there from the films taken they could estimate whether we hit the target or not which was pretty good at times. I must say it myself I was, quite enjoyed that. And then we moved on to firing 303 guns which was mounted into, this was on the Avro Anson we were flying in those days which had a turret fitted not normally used on an Anson. Just for training purposes and we finally passed out at, well I say Stormy Down actually we’d been diverted or posted to a satellite of Stormy Down. A place called Rhoose which now I understand is Cardiff airport. Some difference. But from there we was transferred or posted I should say to Moreton in the Marsh, Gloucestershire. Of course, we went from home to Reading Station on the local bus and sitting on the station I met another chap. We had our greatcoats on because it was pretty fresh and talking to this gentleman there, he was a warrant officer, I discovered that he was going to Moreton in the Marsh as a pilot to crew up the same as I was. So we had a nice long chat on the platform and we sat together in the, going down in the train, got to know each other, about each other’s family etcetera and I eventually crewed up with him as his mid-upper gunner. Of course in Moreton in the Marsh we were trained on, no, crewed up on a Wellington bomber but once again we were put to a satellite station called Enstone which, which was quite enjoyable. And Les and Harry they both in the same group we all went to Enstone which was just what we wanted because Les and I had made up our minds that if possible we’d fly together. And while we were there we had do dinghy training and believe it or not that was in Blenheim Palace grounds. The grounds of Blenheim Palace. There was an Avro Anson parked in the middle of the lake which was great fun because some of us, though fortunately I could swim but some of the crew couldn’t swim at the time. But we had a row out in a little boat to the aircraft and sit in the positions as though we were doing a crash landing in the sea and had the instruction. And as we hit the water we heard a noise in the aircraft. That was the time we were sitting in the aircraft and of course that was the time we had to open the dinghy, get the dinghy out, open it up, blow it up and sit in the dinghy. That went on for a couple of days but after that we passed out as a full crew. We had Phil the bomb, sorry Phil the pilot came from the Salisbury area. Jock the navigator he was from Aberdeen, Taffy the bomb aimer from Wales and Les, my old mate he came from Sunderland and of course, myself from Hartley Wintney. And we got on quite well together as a crew and eventually we passed out having done various cross-country flights firing at different targets in selected areas in the North Sea and I suppose it would be the Irish Sea as well. But from there we went on to Halifax bombers in 6 Group which, transferred to 6 Group thinking we were going to remain in 4 Group but no. It was a Canadian unit we went to at Dishforth and there a flight engineer joined the crew which, he was a chap from Romford in Essex. Old Charlie. Charlie [Warderman.] He was about the oldest member of the crew in actual fact. He was an old London bus driver. From there we became good friends and made up the crew but unfortunately, we lost our wireless operator while we was at Dishforth. He got in to trouble with the police. Never heard proper details about that but anyway we were joined by a French Canadian chap from Montreal as a wireless operator and of course as we introduced ourselves all the way around to him and he told us about his Service life which apparently he’d been, already been on operations flying as a wireless operator air gunner on Marauders from Blackbushe. So I kept quiet and let him carry on talking about Blackbushe and that. I asked him about different pubs in Hartley Wintney and he discovered that I’d come from Hartley Wintney and we had a quite nice old chat from that. But we’d done all the similar things we’d done at the OTU when we were at Dishforth and we finally got transferred or posted should I say to 102 Squadron. But prior to that we were actually told we were going on leave for a fortnight and being, joining a squadron in South Africa [knocking noise in background] But that all fell by the wayside, what that noise was I don’t know but here we go. We eventually got to RAF Pocklington, Yorkshire, 102 Squadron and the sight that greeted us as we turned in to the entrance of the aerodrome was a Halifax bomber sitting in the field where it had failed to take off which rather, you know put funny feelings in our stomachs seeing a crashed aircraft, you know. But we got over that and we finally started our bombing and that was 18th of August 1944. And we’d done our first bombing raid on the 3rd of September and the target was Venlo Airfield in Holland which was all new to us. The actual being informed of what they expected of the crews and telling us, warning the gunners to keep a good eye open the whole time from the time when we took off ‘til we came back but we didn’t encounter any aircraft, or any enemy aircraft at the time and the bombing trip went well. We had a small amount of flak but we didn’t take a lot of notice of it. But unfortunately, when we came back, flying over the North Sea we were diverted and we had to land at a ‘drome in Cambridgeshire which I never really knew the name of strange as it may seem. But we were there, we had to stay there a week before the weather was changed and we could land back at Pocklington and while we were there I witnessed an American pilot shooting the ‘drome up because he had finished his tour of ops in a Lightning aircraft and he shot the place up twice and on the third trip he was flying over and he went under some cables and caught the fins of the aircraft and he shot up in the air, baled out and the aircraft crashed. But we did, as I say finally get back to Pocklington but prior to that while we were there the night we landed we were interrogated. After two unsuccessful attempts at landing and the third one the pilot took, took a chance and went in because low on petrol. Short of petrol. And we had a nice meal but I didn’t enjoy mine so much as the others because on medical instructions I had I was flying without dentures and we had a nice partridge and I couldn’t gnaw the bones like the other lads. It was quite a laugh really. Anyway, finally we got back to our own ‘drome and that was on the 11th of September. On the 12th, the morning of the 12th we were on orders for a briefing, I think it was about 10.30 in the morning and to go on another bombing raid. This was quite an extensive [pause] what’s the word? Briefing. That’s the word. Briefing on the target and the amount of aircraft that was going to be flying that day I think was about two hundred every so, every half hour on to the target. And it turned out to be the Ruhr. Gelsenkirchen. And of course, from the old memories of the crews that were on the squadron a big ‘Aaaargh,’ went up and we realised that they’d been there before and it wasn’t a very happy place to be. So of course, warned again by the gunnery officer after the briefing what he expected of all the gunners, you know to keep a sharp lookout. Watching out all the time, not just for the enemy aircraft that may attack but making sure there was nothing above us or that the other aircraft weren’t getting too close which we’d got used to doing. Anyhow, the, as we were going over the North Sea near the, getting near the border of Germany we, I could see smoke in the distance as we got closer and closer and realised it was the target area that we were approaching. And flying in formation we were the, one began to feel, you know wondered what was happening. I know I did. And still keeping an eye open watching what we had to look out for and the ack ack was firing away and the only way I can really describe it myself the firing of the German guns was in the modern day fireworks. You know the, with modern day fireworks they explode in the air all different colours. Varying coloured lights and that. Masses of them and imagine that was the shells bursting around us and believe me it was, well put it bluntly hell. And we, we carried on. We dropped our bombs and after there was the Pathfinders on the, guiding the bomb, the bomb aimers in and we saw two aircraft go down while we were on the bombing run and one, the Pathfinder we heard him say, ‘Take over number 2. Take over number 2. I’m going in. I’m going in.’ That’s the last we heard of that. But the, to see these other planes at the side of us going down it was a bit unnerving but you just got on with your job and it seemed to disappear from your mind you know because you’re thinking about yourself and guarding yourself. But anyhow we eventually got through the target and the navigator gave, flew on the new course to fly to come home which we did and we gradually got away from the flak and eventually landed back at Pocklington. [banging noises] It may be the workmen outside. I don’t know.
TO: [unclear]
FH: Anyhow, we got out the aircraft. The ground crew were waiting for us. Welcoming us back. Of course, we looked around the aircraft and it was just covered in holes and we thought we were rather lucky getting back. When Taffy got right under the nose of the aircraft, looked up there was shells gone up right through where he had been laying with his legs open. Straight up through the centre, between his legs and out the top and he just more or less fell to the ground with his hands closed and I think he said a prayer same as we all did thinking we were damned lucky to be back home. And the old aircraft had a load of holes in. Since then we wondered how we did manage to get back. But anyhow the following day oh we had a nice time. We had rum when we got in for debriefing and we all debriefed as a crew, then individually by the, like with our case Les and I, had the gunnery officer. We went to bed that night and the next morning looking on orders we was on orders again for another raid. Of course, we’d been trained for this so we, we knew what to expect, you know. That’s why we were sent to a squadron. To do these bombing raids. Anyhow, same procedure as normal and after the briefing of course you weren’t, you made no contact with anybody outside on the ‘drome. You kept to yourselves so that no, anybody around the place to get the information to send off to the enemy, you know. Everything was all secret which we got used to after a couple of trips or a couple of briefings. This time the target was Munster in Germany. Crossing across the North Sea was ok. Normal flying except that when the navigator asked the pilot to climb to nineteen thousand feet which was the bombing height that day we found he couldn’t get the height. Only eighteen five hundred feet high. A discussion took place between the crew and we decided that you know we could carry on without. Didn’t want to turn back so we carried on to the bomb site and as we approached we had a bit of flak. And on the bombing run Taffy was giving an order to Phil to, you know, ‘Steady. Steady. Left. Left. Right. Right.’ Anyway, all of a sudden I discovered I was sitting in fresh air. It made me smile a bit at the time but I thought how has this come about? And as I had come to my guns were trailing over the tail turret and the ammunition was being pulled out all along the fuselage. Thinking to myself well it’s no good sitting here. Can’t. No good without guns. I’ll go up front with the pilot which I did or attempted to do. Disconnected oxygen etcetera to go up the front and the aircraft was one mass of flames. So at the same time I saw somebody disappear through the hatch, front hatch so I picked up my parachute. It was burning and I guess through the lack of oxygen these things were happening but I just dropped the parachute back down thinking well that’s no use to me. And all this happened in a matter of seconds I guess but it seemed ages but I’m sure Charlie at the front, he was the flight engineer he come, seemed to be running back to me over the spar. He picked up the ‘chute. I remember him doing it. I can see him now as I’m talking putting his arm across the flames on the ‘chute, clipping it on and somehow he got me over the spar in to the front of the aircraft into the cockpit where the exit was and the last thing I saw before he pushed me out was my pilot Phil sitting there with the stick back into his stomach. Very white. I can remember that and I can see him now. And Charlie pushed me out and I came to proper then coming down in the fresh air and while I was coming down I could hear psst psst psst and I assumed it was bullets being fired from the ground by the troops that I could see as I was coming down, surrounding me. And a Spitfire circled around as well while I was coming down. Didn’t see any other ‘chutes and I just hoped and prayed that everybody was out but I did see the plane which I assumed was our plane making a perfect belly landing away in the distance just one mass of flames. Of course, that disappeared out of sight and this Spitfire was circling and he must have been within five hundred feet of the ground and he dipped his wings and then shot away up in the air enough to say, ‘I’m on the way home.’ And that’s when I really first felt lonely. Just for a split second and then I was on the ground. And of course, I could see as I was landing that there was civilians and troops running in to this field that I was about to land in which I discovered, well in my opinion was a field of sugar beet and of course landed a bit heavy not having a full ‘chute. Anyway, I disconnected it and I had no chance of escape. It was 6.30 in the evening. I stood doing the hands up and a couple of German soldiers were within what fifty yards of me by that time and they gave me a search all over, make sure I’d got no firearms etcetera. And from there we marched across a field which was as I say was a bit of rough walking because it was some kind of root crop. I said it was sugar beet but anyway I’m carrying my open parachute and the guard put his foot on some barbed wire at the end of the field and I had to crawl underneath this wire which was not the easiest of tasks being open parachute carrying. They put me in to a coach there where I was strip searched and the parachute and flying jacket suit were taken from me and thrown into the back of a coach. While that was going on Charlie arrived with his. He’d been picked up, and also Taffy and they went through the same treatment as I did. But shaking hand with Charlie as he got in and you know didn’t speak at all. Just shaking hands we got hit across the wrist with the butt of a rifle which was a little bit painful. Same as the kick I had as we got through the barbed wire. I stopped like an English gentleman as I say to allow them to get through because I didn’t know where I had to go and he, the jackboot went right in my rear which I felt for several days afterwards. So anyhow finally we got put into some Army barracks where we were [paused] we’d been walking along this canal bank and were being beaten up by the civilians with broom handles and forks and if it hadn’t been for the guards protecting us and tempting to fire at the civilians I don’t think I’d would be here now. But anyhow, we finally arrived in this Army barracks where we stood in a big hall. A kind of a dining hall place or assembly hall and after we were standing there I was on the right, Taffy in the middle and Charlie was on the left and we, all of a sudden a door opened directly in front of us. Taffy started falling so we instantly grabbed him to stop him falling on the ground and the chap in the doorway says, ‘It’s alright Taffy. The war’s over for you.’ And he disappeared. Of course, we couldn’t talk to each other and we didn’t find out until we got into the actual camp, Luft 7 in Poland what it was all about. And it turned out that in 1938 this chap was working with Taffy in South Wales and he’d left there to go to Cambridge to improve himself and I guess he went back to Germany. But from that there we were put into a cell for in Munster for three nights. Three of us in one cell. And from there we had to go to Dulag Luft, the Interrogation Centre which was a bit [pause] a bit much at times but anyway we were in separate cells there for the first time and that was quite a lonely spot then. But anyhow as soon as I, we’d been warned at briefing not to take any notice of any voices or anything we heard when we were in the cells and I hadn’t been in there five minutes before a Yankee voice come I could hear. He said, ‘Are you a limey?’ I didn’t answer. He said, ‘Where did you catch it?’ I kept quiet. Didn’t answer at all and apparently, he said he had a gangrenous foot but I just didn’t answer and I just sat on the old bench that was there. But eventually after about a week I was called for and was taken, marched out from the cell along the corridor down the flight of steps, outside in to the, well, we were passing a parade ground. Then I had to go down some old steps in the building and this had doors all the way along either side of the building and the doors was open. I was told to stand there or indicated to stand there where I stood for forty five minutes actually with a pistol in front of me. There was two officers, I assumed they were officers of the German force and one, one was asking questions. Where we come from, what my trade was and all the rest of it. Still just answered number, rank and name and he kept fiddling with his pistol. The safety catch went on and off and I got like that I remember saying to myself, ‘Why don’t you pull the trigger? Get me out of it.’ I said, ‘Nobody knows whether I’m alive or dead so why don’t you do it?’ Anyhow, after forty five minutes he says, ‘I can let you go back to your cell now, Sergeant Hooker.’ He said, ‘You’re too young to die yet.’ Went back and I sat, I remember sitting on that bench, wooden bench, collapsed out to be honest. And anyhow the following morning I was called again. I thought oh no. Not again. This time went the other way. Went into an office. ‘Sit down, sergeant.’ ‘No. I prefer to stand.’ ‘Oh, have a cigarette.’ ‘No. I don’t smoke.’ Although I could have done at the time you know. I did used to smoke a bit but we never, we were warned against it. Not to smoke, you know or to take a cigarette but I could have given anything to have one. But anyhow after a while he started asking questions again and then he went on the phone. I remember this clearly. Went on the phone and presently a chap came through the door with a book. Put it on the desk in front of the officer and there he started turning these pages over and every page he turned over he mentioned a name of the RAF stations that I’d been at. Right from the time I joined up in the Lords Cricket Ground back to where I was born. It was amazing. Whether it told on my face or not I don’t know but once again he said, ‘You see Sergeant Hooker,’ he says, ‘We know all about you so what’s the point in shooting you.’ Still didn’t say anything. ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘By the way Wing Commander Wilson is on our list. He’ll be the next one. We’ll get him. We knew he was supposed to lead the attack today,’ he said. ‘When you attacked.’ He said, ‘But he was standing at the end of the runway when you took off wasn’t he? Saluting the aircraft.’ It shook me something shocking that did. Knowing that. And that is actually what happened. Wing Commander Wilson’s plane went u/s on the way around to take off. And he said, ‘So, there we are.’ He said, ‘You go back to your cell.’ He says, ‘And in a few days’ time you’ll be sent to the prison camp.’ And I went back to my cell and sat there on this old wooden bench which we used to sleep on as well and I couldn’t take it in. That he knew all about us because my own crew didn’t even know where I was born apart from the fact that they knew I lived in Hartley Wintney. But I was actually born in a little hamlet a few miles away from there and he actually knew this. Anyhow, a couple or three days after we were called out again and there was Charlie and the bomb aimer over there and the navigator and the Canadian W/Op. They were there as well so we hadn’t been in touch with them at all. And there were several other men, two chaps we started talking to or Charlie and I did. A flight engineer Sergeant [Mead] and a Sergeant [Beech] from Kent. Anyway, we became very good pals then once we got into the prison camp which was in a place called Bankau in Poland. Took several days I believe if I remember right getting there but once we was there we, we was put in to what we called dog kennels. These garden sheds. And there were seven in the one I arrived in. We were only there for a short while. I can’t remember exact dates but from there we were put into proper huts and there was, that was divided off into small rooms and there was eight of us in a room in four double bunks. We became very friendly altogether and for exercise like all the rest of the lads we used to walk around the perimeter track day after day just to keep a bit of fitness together. The food was a bit rough and in very short supply as it had been during the whole time I’d been in the Interrogation Centre. But there we are. We got through. We had a bit of German cheese and their soup which was, well we called it whispering grass. That’s what it looked like. Bits of grass boiled up. Sometimes there was skinned potatoes boiled up. But the bread I got used to in the end. Eating their dark bread which was horrible to start with. The one thing in passing towards the end of the time we were in Luft 7 we were issued with bread that had been baked in 1937 for the Spanish Civil War. It was on the wrappers of the bread. Like we get our bread nowadays in wrappers. It was just like that. It was some of the finest bread I’ve ever eaten. It really was. Of course, during that time in Luft 7, through the Red Cross I had a set of dentures made because I was flying without mine. And there again they didn’t cost me anything apart from we were allowed to give the dentist a tablet of soap for hygiene purposes which I did and they were a lovely set of teeth. I had them on for a number of years after. After the war. Anyhow, from there of course, the Christmas ’45, sorry ’44 we heard that we were about to be moved from one camp to another. And over the Christmas period there the Yankee aircraft we could hear up in the sky we actually could see them. They were flying quite regular. But on the 17th of January we were informed because we used to have a parade every twice a day for number count, make sure no one had escaped, etcetera. We were informed that we’d be leaving the camp later that day to a destination which the Germans couldn’t tell us. Anyhow, we stood out in the snow and cold with what personal items we had in a Red Cross case which we’d been given in [pause] not in the Interrogation Centre, a transit camp which we went to after we’d been interrogated and that had new clothing, underwear, pullovers, towels, shaving gear which was very acceptable because I hadn’t had a shave or wash for over two weeks. And but from there as I say we were on the parade ground for a number of hours on the 17th then sent back to our billets. On the 19th we were to call again 3 o’clock in the morning on parade. Everybody woke up. Snowing. Breathing very cold. We eventually moved off. I think it was about 8 o’clock if I remember right. Over twelve hundred of us. There were sixteen hundred of us in the camp. Anyhow, there was way over twelve hundred and we, the marching didn’t much. It got into a walk and we stopped a few hours afterwards and put up into a farm building for the night. Then we walked again the following morning for a short while. And then we stopped outside a brick yard, a disused brick yard and we spent the day there. Some were lucky enough to be under cover. Others were in the open. Resting. We were told we were staying there for the day or for the night I should say and early evening we were called out again. We were on the move. The word went around. There were about, so we hesitated whether we’d get out or whether we’d stay there hoping we could get away with staying there and perhaps make contact with the Russians as they were making their push. As we were about to move we saw a pile of pallets. The four of us. There was Charlie, myself and Frank and Tommy. So nobody spoke. We all seemed to go to these pallets and start moving them, a big pile of them and we laid behind. Thought now we’re safe. Nobody will see us here. And we just moved them back in position probably and we were spotted, it turned out by a dog seen the pallets move. A dog. A German guard was checking everybody was out. Anyhow, he controlled the dog. It didn’t attack anybody and we, he ordered us out and in that time he pushed us up near the front of the queue that was forming to make the night march as it turned out. Well, that night it was really snowing and being in front of the queue, or almost in the front we were in sight of the German guards and the chief officer of the camp and the interrogator, not the interrogator, interpreter I should say of the camp and we was walking through snow up to our waists. So we were literally sort of digging ourselves through. And this went on all night. We left there at 8 o’clock at night. The march started and during the night we were informed that if we didn’t get across the River Oder by 8 o’clock in the morning we’d be left to the mercy of the Russians because they were getting so close. For some unknown reason we got over the river, over the bridge which had big holes drilled in them ready for being exploded. You know, exploding. And during the night, I can’t quite remember if it was before that incident or after we found ourselves, the four of us sitting on our cases. We had these Red Cross cases which we had fixed on a piece of an old broken ladder we found in the brickyard and used it as a sled to pull these cases along, you know. We had our towels and a little bit of personal stuff, clothing left. Most of it we was wearing to keep us warm. But we suddenly discovered we were all four of us sitting on this case. Nobody else in sight. I can’t remember who spoke, or if anybody spoke first but we eventually got up and we linked arms as we had been before helping each other along trying to keep each other up. Standing up. And of course the snow was flat and icy where all the lads had gone before us but we eventually did catch up with the group, on the tail end of it but after we’d got over the river, when did I say when it was? About 8 o’clock in the morning. Tired out of course but a short while afterwards we heard the explosions of the bridge being blown up. And that night or that morning we waited outside a farmhouse for like about an hour while the farmer finished milking his cows. You could see them in the stalls. And they turned them out into the snowy field and all of a sudden there was a mad rush and everybody was rushing inside so they could lay down and have a rest. Well, the four of us we spotted the old [unclear] where they used to milk the cows. The stalls. The cow stalls. Just room for four of us to lay down. Well, there was, the cows had been in there all night and we had a good old job trying to clean them out using our boots to move the droppings. We got a bit of straw or hay and managed to lay down on it but it wasn’t very thick. It was very hard and cold but that’s how we spent our night or the rest of the day I should say. But again, we’d no food and this went on for a number of days. I can’t quite remember how many there was. The memory is going a bit. But we were sleeping in cow farms, cow stalls, open barns. Sometimes the barns had hay in. I know in one instance we were sleeping on some hay that was in a barn down the bottom. Others had climbed up on top of the rig. But in the morning we couldn’t find our shoes and where the hay had moved, people moving about at night going to loo etcetera but we did finally find them. But another instance we got to, we were about to move again from the farm and had a short march that day and got to another farmhouse. And this was in the evening time and I could see, or four of us could see shadows moving about in the distance in this farmyard and I went to investigate because we had a feeling. We could see the shadow of a house in the darkness. Over the line, I took a couple of mugs with me to get a drink of water for the four of us and when I got there I was ushered inside and told, you know, told not to speak. It was in broken English. It was some Polish people and there were two of the lads, Polish lads who were on march they’d come up and found out there were Polish people in the house and two of them were going to stop there and hide and they had the floorboards up and they were going to hide in to, underneath the floorboards when our lot moved off. And I was warned you know not to say anything other otherwise you know, you’d be finished. I eventually got back with this water and they wanted to know where I had been and all the rest of it but thankfully we were eventually told we were going on a, the end of the march was over and we were being transported by train.
TO: Sorry. Can I just ask what is that noise?
Other: That’s the fridge.
TO: Ok. I just wondered.
FH: Are you alright?
TO: I was just wondering what the noise was that was all.
FH: Hmmn?
TO: Just wondering what the noise was. That was all. Sorry. Carry on.
FH: Yeah. We, we were informed we were going to be travelling by train for a while but we had another small march. But once we got on the train or on the train there was trucks, goods trucks and there was sixty five of us in one truck which in normal circumstances would have been a bit crowded to say the least. But it wasn’t long before people wanted to relieve themselves. Of course, we couldn’t open the door. That was locked from the outside. There was a crack in the door and various chaps stood at the door trying to relieve themselves but in the end a corner was used to, they wanted to do number twos as they call it. And eventually no. It was, I don’t know how to describe it. The stench was terrific. Everybody was wanting to relieve themselves and using the corner and of course that meant chaps were getting closer and closer together because during the, a couple of days before we got on the train we’d been at a farmhouse and somebody found a tub of what they said was molasses. Of course, everyone being hungry and thirsty put their mugs in and had some of this molasses but it was what they called farm molasses and of course Canadians used to love molasses. Similar to treacle in our case, you know. But this turned out to be farm molasses which they used to use to make sileage for the cattle. Dysentery set in with nearly everyone on the train and believe me it was no, no holiday sitting in that train. We did finally stop and then we were allowed out of the trucks and some of us got out. I think most people got out but a lot of us couldn’t get back in on our own. It was on a slope and it wasn’t on the, it was out in the country so there was no platform and we went down the slope and done what we had to and got back up the slope to get in and the Germans were actually helping us into the trucks. The guards. And some of our own chaps who were a bit fitter helped each other up. Anyhow, we finally got to the destination which was Luckenwalde and there we had a short walk to the camp and crowds of people were, or a crowd of chaps were getting near the gate anxious to see who we were and what. What we were. And it turned out it was an Army camp that we were arriving at. Stalag 3A. And again, we had to stand outside, be photographed again for identity cards. We eventually got into this camp. Into huts. There were no bunks and just the open hut and I think it was just over two hundred to a hut. And we were fortunate. Fortunate to find a place near the side of the hut where we could lean against. There was no, you couldn’t really lay down there was so many. The crowd was so, you know intense and so close together. But anyway, that went on for a while and it was there that I discovered two lads. One from Aldershot, and one from Blackwater and the third one from Basingstoke. And the lad from Basingstoke unfortunately was taken to hospital one night and he passed away with a gangrene stomach. And the following morning or the morning after the padre come around asking if anybody knew him that was in the area where he was resting and sleeping, this chap. He’d been taken out of the room. But I imagine that he was in the same Air Training Corps as I was in Basingstoke so I was allowed to join the party for the funeral which part of the way I carried a imitation or homemade paper wreath with paper flowers on. And halfway along outside the camp, it was quite a walk we changed over bearers and I helped carry the lad to the cemetery which all were under oath not try to escape, you know on that particular occasion which we all agreed to, you know the padre and everything. Anyhow, finally on the 22nd of April [pause] Yes, the 23rd of April we woke up and then, no. That must have been about the 22nd we discovered that the German guards had gone and a senior, I think it was a Norwegian officer had been put in charge of the camp and he gave the instruction no one to leave as the Russians were very close. And on the 23rd these Russian tanks arrived and it was a sight I’ll never forget. They, these tanks went straight down the main road I suppose you’d call it of the camp, the barbed wire either side knocking it down. Everybody was cheering I remember and they turned around, the tanks did and come back up and with the tanks, on some of the tanks were Russian prisoners. They were you know a compound further down sitting on the tanks and some were walking and it was said that they were continuing with the troops to Berlin. They were in a sad state I must admit. And the next thing another follow up troops as they moved off further on the second wave of Russian troops come which had women in them, amongst them as well and we were treated just like prisoners as well by them. Short of food. Not allowed out. But some did venture out I agree. On one occasion, one day there we were, several of us walked down to the Russian compound where they’d killed a cow. We tried to get some of this meat to cook up but didn’t get much luck. They gave us a bit of a tripe which we couldn’t do anything with. It was horrible really. But anyhow, eventually word went around that American trucks were arriving. Everybody was quite pleased and excited looking for them. When they did arrive we rushed to them. I know I did to get on one of the trucks. They were going to take us back to the American lines which turned out to be about eighteen kilometres away. But waiting there in the trucks then some of the guards got very close and ordered everybody off the trucks. ‘You’re our prisoners. You’re going home. We’ll send you home through Odessa,’ they were saying. Anyhow, we got turned off the trucks, put back in the camp and the word went around they’d come again in the morning, the Americans because they didn’t want to make bad friends or cause trouble with the Russians. So they said they’d return again in the morning which they did and again I was one of the lucky ones to get on the trucks. This time I’d somehow or other, I don’t know how I’d lost, lost contact with Charlie and the two new mates, Frank and Tommy. But anyhow again we got turned off the trucks with the Russians firing at us. So the message went around anybody fit enough to walk eighteen kilometres the Yanks would wait there for twenty four hours waiting for us. I joined up with three other chaps who was in the, got off the same lorry. We went into the woods that was close by heading in the direction that we were informed that, we were being fired on then by the Russians as we were trying to escape I suppose you’d call it. But we weren’t the only ones. There was a load of others as well but we was dodging in between the trees. But eventually the firing stopped and we carried on and met up with four or five other. And in the end there was a group of ten of us that after some chatter amongst ourselves five of them decided to return to camp but we decided, you know we started and we’d finish. And that night, well during the day I don’t know how far we’d covered I’m sure but we were very tired and hungry we come across this little village and we could smell new bread being baked and of course that made us worse. Made us feel hungry and we sorted out some and spoke to some Russian guards and took a chance that we’d speak with them and they indicated, or we made them understand who we were after a while. Ex-prisoners of war, English and they cottoned on to who we were. They took us into a house and ordered us to sit down and they disappeared. Well, it was only a matter of ten minutes I guess and they came back with four or five jars of bottled meat and a big bucket of milk and indicated to us to eat and drink and then to lay down and sleep. So we really got tucked in to this bottled meat. It was good. And the milk. So we finally said well we’ll stop there and we slept through the night. And then the following morning we thought well we’d better say thank you to these Russians but we didn’t know where they were but we went outside and eventually we saw these chaps coming back to us pushing bicycles. We thought are they the same men or aren’t they and it turned out they were and they’d got bicycles for us to ride instead of having to walk because we were informed we were going to America. And there was four bicycles so we shared one. Gave one a lift so far and then changed over you know. Five of us on four bikes. Then eventually we got to [unclear] where the German, a load of German civilians and we were trying to get through to the bridge and couldn’t get through. But eventually we made contact with the Russians that were guarding the bridge which was the entrance for the Germans to get across into the Yankee zone but they weren’t allowing that. There was quite a few men their side. But eventually we got in contact with them and told them we wanted to get over and, ‘No. No. No.’ Then they indicated they realised who we were and I pointed to my bike, flat tyre, no good. So they took this bike away from me and more or less snatching it away from me give it to a German lady and snatched her bike away from her and told us, indicated for us to go across the bridge. Which we did and it was long, not long after we got over the bridge we turned. I remember turning left and going along this road. We heard grenades going off. We thought have we done right? They’re still fighting. Anyhow, suddenly three or four Yanks came out from the woods away in front of us, a hundred or a hundred and fifty yards in front of us. They looked and we put our hands up and we called out, ‘English. English.’ Anyhow, we gradually met up and from there they, we threw our bikes on the grass and they got transport for us and took us to their headquarters where we was given some food and drink, cigarettes. And then we moved on from there to a place called [Halle]. I think it is. Anyhow, there again we were given some more cigarettes, more food and it was there that there were some other lads, some Army lads who had been prisoners and had got that far and of course my feet was terrible with blisters. So one of these lads seen me hobbling. He asked what was wrong and I said, ‘Oh, blisters.’ He said, ‘I’m a medical man,’ he says, ‘From the Medical Corps.’ He says, ‘I’ll have a look at them.’ Anyhow, he looked and he disappeared somewhere. He’d been there several days apparently but he came back and I think he must have pricked one of the blisters and it was all running out you know. And then he put a padding on it which was a little bit uncomfortable to start with but after a while it made it easier for me to walk. So I thanked him and then we didn’t see him again. We got, I got moved on to Belgium to an Army, a British Army camp where we had a good shower and a wash, a shave, tidied up again. And from there they gave us some what they called [Banff[ money. It was money that was issued to the occupying forces during the war and we bought a couple of little gifts in the evening. The following day we were told, we had breakfast there of course amongst the troops and we were told that our names would be called out and we’d have to go to a certain point they indicated to us. An assembling area where we’d be flown back to England. Well, waited all the morning. Nothing happened. And we had lunch or I had lunch and I realised I was the only RAF chap there. So waited and waited and mid-afternoon I heard the name, ‘Sergeant Hooker, RAF.’ So I hurried to the assembly point and met up with a crew of a Dakota and they said, ‘Well, you’re on our flight,’ and there was a load of Army chaps there as well so we all got aboard and I discovered sitting in the aircraft a contingent of RAF chaps. Anyway, we took off. I was very pleased you know to be taken flying again and I just got settled in my seat you know and thinking that the White Cliffs are over there and I see a chap coming down from the cockpit, one of the crew members. And he’d been sent down by the pilot asking if I would like to go and fly home in the cockpit along with them which I grabbed the opportunity and I sat up there coming over the English Channel could gradually see the White Cliffs getting nearer and nearer. And the pilot was asking where I lived and said that he was landing at Dunsfold near Guildford. I said, ‘Oh well, that’s not too far from home.’ I said, ‘In fact, I’ve got relations in Guildford.’ Anyhow we got there and we landed and the first chap oh I sat back in the fuselage of course for landing and the first chap I met when the door opened being the first one off the aircraft was a Salvation Army officer who welcomed me home. Shook hands. Then the next chap in the line was a senior RAF officer who, you know shook hands. Again, welcoming me home. Then there was the Army chap. Anyway, we finally got into the hangar in Dunsfold. We had a short interrogation there. Wanted to know when I was shot down and about the crew and if they were all alive. Eventually we were transported that night into Guildford Railway Station and going on the platform thinking it was empty there was a load of women and of course there were a lot of other RAF chaps with me this time. You know they’d landed earlier and that. I forget how many there was but anyhow we were sent there or driven there by transport to go catch a train to Cosford, near Wolverhampton. So, I said, ‘Well, why can’t I go home?’ I said, ‘I’d be home in no time.’ ‘No. You’ve got to go to Cosford and get re-kitted and that. Well, these woman as we, the group walked on the platform a woman grabbed us and this particular woman had grabbed me or took hold of my arm and we walked away from the others. She said, ‘We’re all here to take information from you.’ She said, ‘So we can contact your parents or relatives to let them know that you’re home safe.’ I said, ‘Well, I had sent a telegram to them.’ ‘Yes, but we’ll, we’ll let them know exactly what’s happening and how you are.’ So I told them everything. I said, ‘Well, I’m not on the phone at home,’ I says. ‘My parents haven’t got a telephone.’ ‘Don’t worry. We’ll ring the local police station.’ Which she said they would do and get the police to go to the house and tell mum that we was on the way home, or on the way to Cosford like, you know. Which apparently happened it turned out. After I’d got home they told me all about it. But while we were there there was a big shout. One of the girls quite close to us yelled out loud and disappeared. And it went quiet, everybody went quiet, saw this girl running and she’d spotted her brother entering the platform and after a while everybody cheered and that kind of thing, you know but it was a very moving moment actually. Anyhow, he was allowed to go straight home. We went up to Cosford on the train. Got there in RAF Cosford and could have a wash and shower and all that kind of thing and laid out on the bed was the old RAF blue uniform. Hospital uniforms. Clean pyjamas. Nice white sheets in the bed and we enjoyed our nice night’s sleep. Then and during the day we, the following morning we had breakfast and had a proper interrogation of what had taken place from the time we’d left the ‘drome until we got back to where we were then and asking about the deaths of the different ones you know, the pilot and the tail gunner. Anyway, we finally got rekitted, smartened up and I travelled down to Reading by train with a lot of London boys and we were allowed to travel that night providing we could get home. Well, I looked at the timetables and things and thought well I can get to Reading and catch the last bus as I thought but anyway it was, unfortunately the last bus had gone when I got there. Very quiet of course. This was midnight and I eventually plucked up courage and rang a farmer that I knew in the village not knowing whether they had petrol for cars or anything like that. Anyway, the son answered the phone and I was a bit choked up and he couldn’t understand what I was saying for a while and he said, ‘Did you say Freddie?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ And he, I can remember him saying, ‘Calm down, Fred. Calm down.’ He said, ‘Wait a minute.’ And then he said, ‘Are you alright?’ and I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘What are you doing? Where are you?’ And I explained I was just coming home from a POW camp and this was my first visit home and I was stuck in Reading. And he said, ‘Well, alright.’ He says, ‘You stay where you are,’ he says. I remember this as plain as life. ‘You stay where you are.’ He says, ‘I’ll have a word with dad. Wake him up.’ Anyhow, it turned out that they had petrol enough and David was allowed to, excuse me come in to Reading and pick me up which was quite a moving, a moving moment when he did arrive and we drove back across what we call Hazeley Heath and made me think of the times when I used to go on leave and walk from Reading to Hartley Wintney but this time it was, I felt I wasn’t fit enough and I’d a full pack and everything. But anyhow, as we turned in our local road and thinking it was all going to be in darkness I could see lights in our living room and in the kitchen and as David pulled up outside the house there was mother and father at the gate waiting for me. And I was at last home and met up with the family who was there. There is only one thing I regret because when I, while I was in the camp I cut the tops of my flying boots off so they were ordinary shoes and I used the silk to make a silk scarf but while doing, one of the flying boots, the leg part of them was covered in shrapnel. Bits of metal and I filled a matchbox full of these and had carried them all the way through and everything and they was in my hands while I was waiting at Reading Station. I found them in the matchbox but I never saw them again because when we’d been hit I mean I wasn’t injured in any way but my left toecap of this shoe, flying boot had a split from one side to the other and it didn’t even touch my sock. Just the shoe and I’d saved them. When I got new kit in Cosford I put them in my kitbag and brought them with me. But that I’m afraid was my life in the Service. Apart from the fact that I did stay on for a while and joined the Motor Transport Department. Did my training up at [Wittering] just outside Blackpool. And eventually I went back to France to a Repair and Salvage Unit travelling over France recovering broken down vehicles. That I say is my memories of service life but I often regret not staying in. There we are. That’s another tale. Thanks.
Thank you so much.
[recording paused]
FH: Right.
TO: So when you were growing up were you interested in aircraft?
FH: Not until I got involved with the Air Training Corps when that first came about in 1941. Yeah. That’s the only interest I had before. When I was a young lad at [pause] what age would I have been? I’d have been about eight years of age my sister worked as a housemaid in a private house and an aircraft, a private house and private aircraft used to land there. A chap by the name of Fielding and it was in the field next door actually to where Lord Alanbrooke finally arrived at and lived. A house called Ferney Close. And I always remember it was a red aircraft and my sister used to come home on her day off she used to tell us about this. Usually flying around the area then it would disappear for parts of sight and it would land in this field and they were allowed out to see it after it landed. Otherwise, no. It was the joining the Air Training Corps and seeing these aircraft we mentioned earlier coming over on the first, what turned out to be the first thousand aircraft raid on Cologne that got me really in to flying. Yeah.
TO: And when you, in the 1930s do you remember anyone being afraid of Hitler?
FH: Being afraid of Hitler?
TO: Yes.
FH: Let me think [pause] Not until, well ’38 I suppose, ’39 time. I can’t remember anything before that. Not really. No. No. I don’t think so. Can’t give much of an answer there.
TO: And do you remember the day the war started?
FH: Yes. I was standing in our living room in what is now Priory Lane, Phoenix Green and I was standing near, between the window and the living room door and father had ordered us to keep quiet. There was three or four of us children there at the time and he put the, had the wireless on and he says, ‘This means we will have to go without things for a while.’ I remember him saying that. But I can remember the Prime Minister saying, ‘We are now at war with Germany.’ Now, was he, what was his name?
TO: Chamberlain.
FH: Sorry?
TO: Chamberlain.
FH: Chamberlain. Because he lived quite local over at Heckfield, a few miles from home and his sisters lived in Odiham if I remember right but not that I ever knew him or met him you know. But I hear his voice now in my head saying, ‘We are now at war with Germany.’ Yeah.
TO: And what do you think of his policy of appeasing Hitler?
FH: Come again?
TO: What do you think of Chamberlain making the agreement with Hitler in 1938?
FH: I don’t know. I’ve never really thought on that really. But thinking back I don’t think it should have taken place. No. But I can’t really give much of an answer to that one.
TO: And do you — sorry, were you going to say something?
FH: No.
TO: Do you remember the preparations people were making for war?
FH: Oh yes. Digging. Digging big holes in the garden. Filling it with corrugated iron walls on the inside of the big hole with steps leading down to it. That’s what I was doing myself in our own garden on the day the thousand pound, [laughs] thousand pound [laughs] the thousand plane bomber raid was to take place. Some people had done it much earlier of course. And then there was you could purchase the Anderson shelters and there was another one.
TO: Morrison.
FH: Morrison. That’s right. Yeah. I know while I was on leave once I went down to my sister in Folkestone and we had to get in this, this shelter that was in her living room in the corner under the table. The table was over the top of it. And because there was a bombing raid on I’ve never been so scared in my life sitting in there because if a bomb had come down I think you would have just been buried, you know. I could never quite work out the reason for such places like that. I can understand the huge, larger underground shelters that they had but for the individual having one in the house I couldn’t quite see that but there we go. That was about it I think.
TO: Were there any air raids where you lived?
FH: Yes. There was one. Now, this would have been when? They weren’t that, it wasn’t an actual raid on the village or area but a bomb was dropped and landed in a field right on the outskirts of the village which I actually saw leave the Dornier aircraft while I was working as a gardening boy. This would have been in what? 1942, I guess. I was working at Winchfield House owned by a Colonel Cherington and this lone aircraft kept flying over in daylight one afternoon and we saw the actual bomb doors open and see the bomb leave the aircraft and it landed in a field close to what we called Mount Pleasant in Hartley Wintney. And no one was injured or anything but we did, I did view the crater later in the evening and there was a few windows, I believe broken but no casualties and that’s about the only one I can remember local. Although when I was at home at the time I don’t know but I understand there was a few found or that had been dropped along the, near the railway line at a place we called Elvetham. A couple or three miles from here but I don’t know any details on that one.
TO: And once you’d joined the Air Force what kind of rations did you have?
FH: Rations? While in the Service do you mean?
TO: Yes. In the Service in general.
FH: Well, I think we used to have a sweet ration. I don’t think cigarettes were rationed. I can’t remember that. But food of course. I mean, we had them supplied to us. You know, from the mess. Although in Civvy Street there was the usual rationing going on but once I was in the Service that didn’t affect us except that when we went on leave we were given a ration card with little coupons on that the shopkeeper used to have to tear off. Was it two ounces of tea a week? An ounce of cheese or a couple of ounces of butter. I forget the exact amount. A very small amount but of course that helped, assisted mother with feeding me when I was on leave. That kind of thing. Yeah. That’s about it I think. Yeah.
TO: And when you were volunteered for the Air Force what was the process for becoming air crew?
FH: Well, first of all I applied I don’t know whether it was to Oxford or where it was but I had to go, travel to Oxford. I had the reply after writing and I had to travel to Oxford for an interview and an assessment test. And that was, I’d done my first one in 1941 but unfortunately I failed that and very disappointed. I came home again but in 1942 [pause] yeah late ‘42 I reapplied and got through it ok. I was quite chuffed. Most of the local people I spoke to said, ‘You haven’t got a chance on earth. You’ve got to have a proper education. College or university education.’ I said, ‘I don’t know,’ I said, ‘But I’m going to have a damned good try.’ Which I did and I studied hard in the Air Training Corps. We had various lectures from people from the RAF Odiham and we used to visit, excuse me, visit RAF Odiham for lectures as a group in the ATC. And that is where I gained a lot of information that was needed with regards discipline. We were shown all a number of different forms which we learned numbers of because the Service life was all numbers on forms and as I say that’s where I really got the liking to and wanting to join the Air Force. Yeah.
TO: And what medical tests did you have to do?
FH: Well, we had the general medicals and well they checked you for everything in those days, you know, wanting to know the illnesses one had had but, and a load of injections of course. Things I’d never had before apart from having been vaccinated as a kiddie but they just took it in your stride you know. They asked questions and you answered them as best they could regarding your medical health which in those days I was quite fit, you know. Just have the normal measles and mumps when I was a kiddie. That’s all. Nothing serious. Yeah.
TO: And did you hear about events in the war like America becoming involved?
FH: Yeah. We heard this on the radio, you know. All the time he was at home dad always had the 6 o’clock and 9 o’clock news on the radio and nobody dare speak in those days while the news was on. If you did you got a clip around the ear because he was interested in what was going on, you know. He himself had only been in the Army a short while during the previous war, the First World War. He was just a short chappie. He was refused on height for a long time but he was for a few, a couple of years I think it was in what they called the [unclear] depot near Southampton but the guards knew it was quiet 6 o’clock and 9 o’clock at night and he mentioned about the Yanks being late coming in to the war I remember. ‘Just like they were last time,’ he said. But otherwise, no. And of course, we heard early on of the so many aircraft didn’t return from a raid. That kind of thing on the news and it didn’t cross my mind when I got interested in planes that it might happen to me. Just one of those things. Yeah.
TO: And what did you do for entertainment in the RAF?
FH: Oh, that would be telling wouldn’t it? The [pause] well I don’t know. Just carried on normally. We used to go out for a drink sometimes or spend the evenings in the NAAFI along with friends and I’ve known when we’ve gone out for a stroll around the camp you know in the local villages. But otherwise, we spent a lot of time doing the old, [unclear] we called it in those days. Cleaning the brass and the webbing and actually we didn’t get a lot of spare time. Not in our case. No. We were always studying in the evenings. Checking what we’d been through during the daytime you know. Sometimes you’d get assistance from a mate. Another time he wouldn’t speak to you. But normally the friendship in the Services was terrific. Something I did miss when I finally left. Yeah. The comradeship. Yeah.
TO: How would you describe morale in the Air Force?
FH: Good. Very good. Yes. I think so. From my experience it was very good and there’s no other word for it. The comradeship and the morale was good. You missed that kind of thing when you come into Civvy Street.
TO: Were there ever any problems with teasing or bullying?
FH: With bullying?
TO: In the Air Force.
FH: Never come across it myself. No. I must admit it was if one was in trouble or say in trouble perhaps couldn’t afford to, had spent the money and couldn’t afford to have a cup of tea or a pint of beer in the NAAFI one of your mates would always buy you one you know. It was the same when we was on the Conversion Unit. It was a Canadian unit as I mentioned earlier. We used to join them in the gambling sessions sometimes. I think they called it Sevens. Throwing the old dice. Well, many a time I’ve been broke from about an hour, an hour and a half after being paid same as Les and we always found somebody to give you a drink or a cup of coffee and loan you a quid if you wanted one. You’d always be paid back. The comradeship was terrific. Yeah.
TO: Did you ever visit the cinemas together?
FH: I think we used to go to a cinema occasionally. Yeah. I can’t say what. We used to have one on a camp, on the camp where you could go but what the films were now I don’t know. No.
TO: And what did you think of Churchill?
FH: It’s a job for me to describe that. At times he was, I mean he got us through the war from that angle but I don’t know. I daren’t say what I really think I don’t think. Not towards the end. I mean he didn’t have much, didn’t have much to say about Bomber Command boys after the order to really as far as I’m concerned came from him in the first place for these bombing raids etcetera. Red Arrows going over.
TO: Oh yeah. There we go. There we are.
FH: Sorry about that.
TO: No. No.
FH: A perfect time to do a fly past.
TO: They’re doing a fly past for Odiham Aerodrome.
Other: No. That was Thursday.
TO: Oh, was that Thursday.
FH: Oh, there they go. There there go.
TO: Yes. [pause] marvellous.
FH: Couldn’t ask for any better interruption.
TO: There they go again.
FH: There they go.
Other: [unclear]
FH: Wonderful.
TO: Wonderful.
FH: That reminds me seeing those go by the window now the last day or supposed to have been the last hour the Vulcan flying. That comes just a few feet, well a few hundred feet I suppose it was above our road and come straight down the road. It was a beautiful sight. But anyhow that’s beside the point.
TO: Ok. So would it be ok if we put [unclear] for us so they don’t crease. Sorry. Just that is creased. And what did you think of Arthur Harris?
FH: Bomber. Yes. Well, he carried out instructions didn’t he from the higher ups and like the rest of us in the Service he was carrying out orders as far as I’m concerned. And that’s, that’s it. He was a good leader as far as I’m concerned. Yeah. But otherwise, never met him of course. No. I can’t say much more.
TO: And what was your opinion of Halifaxes?
FH: To me they were the finest aircraft ever made. I enjoyed every trip I took in them and to compare it with the Lancaster well it’s a job to because I only went into a Lancaster aircraft once and that was only about eighteen months ago when I visited the flight station at Coningsby. We were allowed, I was allowed to climb in there and go over the Halifax, the Lancaster and I still think the Halifax was a nicer aircraft. Yeah. It’s one of those things. They’d both done a good job. One may have carried a heavier bomber load, bomb loads but in the war effort I think they were both the same. Yeah.
TO: Were you aboard a Mark 3 Halifax?
FH: Yeah. We operated on the Mark 3 from the squadron. Yeah. It’s [pause], I’m not sure what Mark it was. Whether it was a Mark 3 at Conversion Unit or not I wouldn’t be too sure on that one. The old memory fades sometimes.
TO: And what were conditions like in the mid-upper turret?
FH: Very cramped as far as that goes but then you didn’t want to move about. You were sitting there and your turret moved with you and you looked, gazed and looked all around. Up, down all around. It was, it was a lovely flying position I think for seeing things as well, you know. Yeah. Beautiful. Boulton Paul turret. Yes. Many days ago now but I did manage to get into a Halifax. It would have been last year I think it was. We went up to RAF Elvington in Yorkshire and I was allowed to climb aboard there which I had to have a little assistance getting in but it was, well it brought back a load of memories to me. Good and bad. And I was only disappointed that Elizabeth couldn’t, wasn’t allowed into the aircraft there although she didn’t climb aboard the Lancaster as did our friends. But my friend, Chris, from Worksop, he helped me in and out of the aircraft same as he did with the Dakota but the Halifax it’s a shame they didn’t save one so it could have joined the what was the Memorial Flight. Why they never come back I don’t know. Except they are rebuilding one in Canada which I sometimes get little whippets of news from but I haven’t had one lately. No. Lovely aircraft.
TO: And did you ever know of any cases of people who refused to go on bombing raids?
FH: No. I heard that some people did and then they were classed as LMF in initials. Lack of moral fibre. And I think it was disgusting for those chaps to be labelled with such a thing because believe me I’d only done three trips and as I mentioned earlier the one in the Ruhr it was hell let loose. So, I can’t, I don’t wonder of some chaps not having the nerve to go again but being labelled LMF I think was wrong. Yeah. But I knew, never knew of anyone.
TO: When you were aboard the Halifax how did it compare to being aboard the Wellington?
FH: Well, quite a different experience in a way because with the [pause] when I was flying in the Wellington on training when we were crewing up mainly my position was looking out of the astrodome unless it was my turn to do the firing exercise. Then Les and I would change over and I’d sit in the tail turret to do the, carry out the firing exercise. But the experience of looking around and searching the sky which I practised in the astrodome was about the same except it was a much smaller area to look around. The Wellington I think could take a lot more punishment than the Halifax I think in as much that, how it was constructed. The framework being criss-crossed or whatever the wording is because I was flying in the Wellington once I was in the astrodome and actually saw the wings literally flap up and down which any other aircraft I think they’d have snapped off at the time. There was a, we had a Polish screened pilot instructing our pilot on the Wellington and he told him to dive down over base. We was over Reading at the time and he said, ‘When I say dive I mean dive.’ But Phil just did a gentle dive and he just took over the dual aircraft control and whoof. I was just in the astrodome dumbfounded. Mouth wide open. But we didn’t see him afterwards after the pilot reported him while we was debriefed. Yeah. Because that is one thing the pilot if possible excepting emergencies of course has to warn to the crew, or has to warn the crew on if he’s going in to a steep dive. Yeah. That’s about it I think.
TO: What was the process for moving the turret about?
FH: What was?
TO: The process for rotating the turret?
FH: The purpose.
TO: The process.
FH: Process. Oh, you’ve nearly got me beat now. Nearly forget it’s so long ago since I’d done it. It was a, we had a handle there, you know and port to starboard. Dip or raise on the handle. I’m trying to I remember if it was just a single. I can’t remember now. It was a single handle I think. You’d go port to starboard. The normal position for take-off and that kind of thing would be facing tailward. The turret would be, you know. Yeah.
TO: And what was the process for take-off?
FH: Well, everybody would be checking before we took off and check all particular instruments you know. The positions. We’d ensure the guns were loaded and the safety catch was on and that it worked of course but you always would be in a safe position on take-off. And at times I believe we used to, I used to have to sit in the fuselage for take-off. I can’t quite remember whether that was the actual rule. I’ve got a feeling it was during the training and once we was airborne you’d climb aboard and when you was on ops of course as soon as you got airborne you put your safety catch off and start the business of rotating. Searching the sky.
TO: And when you were on a raid could you see anything beneath you?
FH: Oh yes. For instance, our first raid was the airfield, an airfield in Holland and actually saw the bombs dropping. You know, landing on the airfield, yes. But when we were at Gelsenkirchen of course it was so, the area was full of smoke from the fires and the exploding of the bombs. We were actually bombing, in our case a red target which the Pathfinders indicated to the bomb aimer to bomb on and so we didn’t really see the bombs hanging there except that some times you’d be next to, pardon me, next to a puff of smoke. But it was so dense you just, your bombs exploding joining all the rest of the chaos that was going on. Yeah, then we were going to the Munster raid. Well, I don’t know because we were hit. I say we were hit. I don’t know even to this day whether we were hit from a bomb above us, whether it was ack ack or what the reason was but we were hit, you know. And whether the bombs had been gone I don’t know. So it was all, all very blank that side of things was. How long as I said before I was knocked out I don’t know. I shouldn’t think not long. Being in fresh air. I don’t know. Yeah. That’s about it I think.
TO: Could you actually hear the explosions of the flak?
FH: I can’t recall that one. No. No. I saw plenty of it. Yeah. Yes, it’s so one got hit and he started diving in flames but no I can’t recall whether I heard them or not. Saw the puffs of smoke all around us. Oh. Yeah. Glad to get out of that anyway. But hearing them I don’t know. I can’t, can’t say.
TO: Could you ever see fires beneath you? Could you ever see fires on the ground?
FH: On the ground? [pause] No. Well, when we were going into the Ruhr the second trip I mean there was a mass of smoke. The whole area was. So we didn’t actually see the flames there. I don’t [pause] On the first one I don’t remember seeing fires at the airfield no. We saw the explosions but no we didn’t actually see a fire start. No. Definitely not and probably did because we were carrying incendiary bombs. Yeah.
TO: And what about searchlights?
FH: No. We did all daylight raids ours was so they didn’t —
TO: Ok.
FH: They didn’t play havoc with us but I believe they did with some chaps. Yeah.
TO: And did you ever see enemy fighters?
FH: Didn’t see one enemy fighter. Not on, not while we were on bomber trips. No. No. The first one I saw was in Farnham funnily enough before I joined the Air Force. One that had been shot down or something and was on show in Farnham but otherwise, no.
TO: And did you hear about the bombing of Hamburg in 1943?
FH: Well, yes, we heard of the different raids taking place but I couldn’t, couldn’t relate any actual details. No. No. It’s you used to listen to the news you know about so many of our aircraft missing. The target was Hamburg or wherever it was we’d hear on the news you know. But you didn’t feel as though you was taking a risk. You didn’t think of that happening to you and being shot down until it happened.
TO: When you saw the planes for the Cologne raid were you aware, did you learn later it was the first thousand bomb raid?
FH: Yeah. Yeah. We learned later on it was. Yeah. Yeah. But it was a sight which stays with me. Where I was in our back garden with a spade in my hand digging and the neighbours was in their gardens and all of sudden this noise approached from what we called the Reading area over to us and they seemed to be turned right about our heads and heading towards Southampton. And plane after plane after plane. I can’t tell you how long it took for them to all go by but there were the boys with their waving their guns and looking because they weren’t very high. I couldn’t tell you the exact height but they could certainly know and they would see people on the ground and waving and they were waving. Moving the guns up and down to the people below. It was a wonderful sight but I can’t remember how many returned the following day. I don’t know. But it was a wonderful, wonderful sight. Yeah. There we go.
TO: When you were in the POW camps did you ever hear about the raid on Dresden?
FH: We had, someone had a wireless in the camp and we used to get snippets of news sent around to us by a group of chaps who was, nobody, well we didn’t, nobody in our hut knew where the wireless came from except I was told once a chap had a crystal set made into a set of false teeth. How true that was I do not know. But we used to get the little newsflashes most days. And someone would stand just casually at the door of the hut when the man came. A different one each day bringing around the news, you know that he’d heard on the wireless because the guard used to walk around the camp as well so if anybody was about nothing was spoken of, you know. Just casual everyday conversations like, you know. And on several occasions heard little bits of news while we was on the march. So whoever he was, whatever he was he did deserve something in recognition of what he’d done and kept the morale up of, of the lads in the camp. Yeah.
TO: And what was your opinion of the Browning guns you were using?
FH: Of course, I didn’t fire them in anger but they were, the four were synchronised together to fire together. Of course they were so synchronised if I was facing tailwards or frontwards over the wings the bullets wouldn’t hit them. They were so synchronised that you missed the tail turret or the tailplane, you know. Good thing. But no I think they were good. In fact, I think towards the end of the war they went to a .5 millimetre but ours were 303s. Four of them. Yeah.
TO: And what’s your best memory from your time in the RAF?
FH: My best memory? Now, that makes me think doesn’t it? Best memory. I suppose was when I flew back in to Dunsfold. Yeah. And the worst memory was there at the same time when they told me I had to go to Cosford instead of going straight home. So, it all turned out right, ok. Yeah.
TO: Do you think there is anything Bomber Command could have done to reduce its losses?
FH: Well, I don’t know. I mean to send a thousand I know it only, I think it only happened about twice, a thousand planes raid but I mean averages. Men had to be shot down or failed to return for some reason but I mean, I think it was in our case I think there was about two hundred planes on the target every half hour, you know. Which I would have thought was sufficient because the more there are there the more chance you’ve got, or the more the Germans had I think of hitting us and of course another thing with regards ourselves we were informed that if an aircraft, which in our case we were lower than we should have been when we were dropping our bombs the gunners on the ground picked out single aircraft out and put a box barrage up so, all around us so whichever way you turned up, down, sideways you were bound to get something. And it’s possible that’s what happened with us.
TO: Were you ever, when you were a prisoner were you ever worried that the, that the Germans might start killing captured airmen?
FH: Killing?
TO: Captured airmen.
FH: Well, we did hear of a case actually in our camp. I can’t say that I witnessed it but I have got a photograph of where it had taken place in my collection of photographs that was actually when the chap found this camera in the offices after the Germans left and the offices were ransacked for different ones to see what they could find as souvenirs. This one chap from London found a camera and he notified us that the, one of the films had been taken and he was going to include it on there whatever it was and it turned out to be where these two chaps were being shot. Yeah. Attempting to break out.
TO: Had you been taught the procedure for baling out during training?
FH: As far as I’m concerned the only training I had was in the Air Training Corps. We was over at Odiham and we was in a hangar one day. We’d been, been to a classroom and we’d been taught about parachuting. How they were folded and all the rest of it. And we were taken to one of the hangars and in one corner of the hangar there was one a platform right up in the ceiling and there was a rope hanging down and a ladder going up the side of the wall and we used to, they instructed us to, the corporal there, we climbed up the ladder. They’d feed a harness on us and explained that we’d be dropping at the same rate as though we were coming down in an actual parachute. It was geared towards a certain speed and we were told we’d got to hit the ground, to be in a ball and to roll over on our shoulder as we hit the ground. They had a mattress down for us to land on, you know. Not the concrete. And we’d done the rolls in PT and that kind of thing but the actual training from an aircraft? No. I can’t remember anything taking place. No. Except being told not to pull the ripcord while you were still in the aircraft which happened sometimes.
TO: What do you think was the most important battle of the war?
FH: I’ve no idea. I wouldn’t like to comment on that. No. They say the Battle of Britain some people but I don’t know. Without the help of the other Services no one Service could have won the war on its own. It was a joint effort as far as I’m concerned.
TO: When you began operations and were in 102 Squadron did people ever talk about comrades they’d lost?
FH: About?
TO: About friends they’d lost on raids.
FH: No. The simple reason we weren’t on the squadron long enough. We arrived there on the 18th of August ’44 and as we moved into our billets there were several airmen picking up the uniforms and belongings of another crew that had failed to return the previous night. And we thought that was quite a good omen. Or a bad one. Yeah. We just settled into the billet and we were there from the 18th to the 3rd of September which isn’t long really. And then as I said before on the 3rd of September we had to land away from base and when we come back we was on ops the next day to Gelsenkirchen and the next day on the fatal op so we didn’t really know anybody else on the squadron. Which is a shame really because we, we spoke to our own gunnery officer, I forget his name now but no, we didn’t know anything about other chaps.
TO: And did you remember hearing about the Dambuster raid?
FH: Yes. Vaguely. We heard about it but I can’t tell you quite where or when it was off hand. No. No, I can’t give you a date or where it was I heard it.
TO: What did you think?
FH: I’m bad on dates.
TO: Ok.
FH: Remembering dates.
TO: Do you remember what you thought when you heard it though?
FH: Oh, we thought it was quite a unique invention really because it was something entirely new as far as we was concerned and it had done its job. And we were rather surprised it was never used again but there you go. Yeah. You see various parts of it are supposed to have been part of a bouncing bomb in different places I’ve visited since the war but that’s about all.
TO: And what was everyday life like in Luft 7?
FH: In the camp? Well, it was just the same old routine. Up in the morning. Make a hot drink whenever possible. We used to make these home made what we called blowers with a bit of metal, with a tin with water in and turn and make the fan underneath the flames of odd bits of wood or cardboard. Then we used to go for, oh in the, pardon me the usual parade which was messed about with sometimes. They used to be counting the prisoners every day or twice a day and we’d line up on the parade ground and often somebody would decide to play up and move about in the parade while they were being counted and then they’d have the wrong number. Spent hours sometimes on the parade ground waiting for the Germans to say, ‘Alright go back to your billets.’ Which we used to do to play cards. Sometimes there was somebody would give a lecture or a talk on what their job was pre-war. And there would be the vicar, he was an Army chap funnily enough gave a, always took a church service on a Sunday. And one that he was second in command to [pause] the pilot officer, an Australian chap, of the camp, he was a Methodist minister and he used to give a Sunday service on a Sunday which I used to go to very often. And strange as it may seem I met up with his navigator back in 2015 at my first reunion and I met again where are we now? Last year. ’16. No. This year, sorry in Gloucestershire. I met with him again down there. Not that I knew him then but we got to know each other through the man that organised the reunions. Yeah.
TO: And can you remember what your room was like?
FH: What? In the prison camp you mean?
TO: Yeah.
FH: Yeah, it was a normal size. Well, like the English military huts divided in small rooms. It had one, what type of stove they called it? The round stove with the chimney going out through the roof which was never used because you couldn’t get the fuel for it. But there were four double bunks so each room after we left the garden sheds or dog kennels as we called them was eight. Eight to a room. Yeah. And we, you know sort of palled up in there and become good friends but unfortunately the only one I kept, could make contact with after the war was Charlie but he passed away in ’68. But the rooms were quite nice from that angle. Had a small table in and a bench seat to sit on. Yeah. Yeah.
TO: And what did you do to pass the time?
FH: Play cards. Chat about home life. Different places we, you know different ones come from. That kind of thing. We used to do quite a bit of walking around the perimeter track when the weather was suitable to keep exercising. Try to keep fit. Yeah.
TO: And what rations did the Germans give you?
FH: Very very little but I don’t think I can actually quote the one you, sometimes we’d get a slice of bread or a bowl of so-called soup which as I mentioned earlier I believe sometimes consisted of what looked like grass boiled up. Sometimes it would be potato skins where they’d been scraped and boiled up. Occasionally we’d get a jacket potato or a whole potato. I wouldn’t say a jacket potato. Oh, sometimes you’d get cheese or so-called cheese. It was about the size of a fishcake and you’d bite into it. It was like chewing gum and you could pull it out. Right out. It was horrible stuff. I don’t think everyone ate those. No. That was terrible stuff that was. But no, the rationing, the food could have been a lot lot better. No. that was one thing we did suffer.
TO: And did you ever get letters from Britain?
FH: I didn’t receive one. I sent several. The first one was at the transit camp after we’d been there and had a wash and which was a good one we were given a Red Cross letter and a Red Cross Card and it’s a period that said you would send one to your parents or wife whichever the case may be. And the other one you would send to the Irvin Parachute Company and notify them that you’d saved your life with one of their ‘chutes which I’d done. I sent one to mother and father of course but I never had a reply whatsoever. No. We sent several others but after the war they were a number of them were returned that mother and the girlfriend had sent. They were returned to me at home but not when we were a prisoner of war.
TO: Could you tell me that story again please of the, your friend on the train who managed to get hold of the Luger?
FH: Oh yeah. We’d travelling from Munster to the interrogation centre with the two guards. There were only the three of us. We hadn’t met up with the other two of our crew that survived but Taffy, the bomb aimer Charlie, myself was on the move. Charlie sat by the side of the, one of the guards. I sat next to him. Taf was on the other side of the carriage along with another guard and we’d been travelling for quite a while and they seemed to doze off. Of course, we didn’t speak because having been warned to be wary of such things you know in case something was said they picked up on. I saw Charlie who was looking sideways at the side of his, I saw Charlie, saw his hands down near the guard and the next time he had his luger in his hand and he opened it up. Just shook his head. And there was no bullets in it. I was shaking. I don’t mind admitting it. I was absolutely shaking because I was only a young kiddie I was. Charlie was about eleven years older. And eventually he put it back in the holster. Just carried on. The train journey went on. Of course, we couldn’t say anything to each other about it. And unfortunately, Charlie never mentioned a word about it afterwards. What his intentions were if there had been bullets in there whether [pause] I don’t know. But later on on that journey we were stopped at a station and we were on the one line and on the line to the left of us a train pulled in and there was all the German personnel covered in blood and bandages all over on one of their hospital trains. So one of the guards pulled the blind down in our carriage and the door was locked and they indicated to us that if they didn’t, if they hadn’t rolled the blinds down they would attack us and they wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. I realised, I did at the time well they had no bullets in their guns. But anyhow in the end there was quite a noise on the platform and in the end it seemed to quieten down with the civilians and we were let out and we had to run across the platform into a, well a kind of a waiting room and we were shoved into this room. The door slammed shut on us the three of us and I don’t know how long we were in there but quite a while and then the train, we heard the train start up and we were then, the door was opened. They looked around the door backwards and forwards and one guard had gone out and opened the carriage door and we were rushed in there. The door was shut shut and off the train went but there were a few people still on the platform but of course the train was on the move. They couldn’t do anything about it. We were safe for a bit longer. Yeah. Funny experience it was.
TO: Did you, well you already knew Normandy had happened by the time you were captured but did you think the war would soon be over when you were captured?
FH: Yeah. I think we, if we speak the truth we had a feeling you know we were getting to the end of it. Yeah, because the bombing was what’s the word? Quite, well the trips were quite regular and in numbers. Quite a high number of bombers coming out every day and the casualties you’d hear on the wireless we didn’t think we’d be there too long but we had no idea really. Wondering at the same time whether it was going to be years or months you know. Yeah.
TO: Did the mood of the guards change as the war turned against Germany?
FH: Hmmn?
TO: As the war, as it became, as the war went on did the mood of the guards change in how they treated you?
FH: To a certain extent yes because the very first night we were put in the cells at Munster and we were there for three, three days and on the day before we were sent to the Interrogation Centre one of the guards came in with our coffee so called and he stood chatting. He spoke English. He said we, ‘We should not be fighting each other. We should be fighting the Russians together.’ And we didn’t make much comment because I mean we still didn’t know whether it was a put up job you know being weary for our own sakes. But no, in the actual camp there was an Irish, well we called him Paddy, he was a German guard but when we was on the march he actually had civilian clothes underneath his Army uniform so that if they dispersed because he could get rid of his uniform and become a civilian or a prisoner of war, you know. Or, you know join our ranks. But what happened to him in the end I don’t know but, yeah because he was alongside us for quite a while but of course in different speeds, you know walking, ambling along you know. They were as bad as us. The guards, because they had to keep going you know and they didn’t really want to. No. [pause] Yeah. That’s about it.
TO: How did the guards behave in Luft 7?
FH: Well, they was reasonable really. I mean they were doing a job that they were paid for the same as we had been. But no, the higher ups they were a bit more severe you know. The old sergeant, and I forget his name but they were very firm. They wouldn’t stand any nonsense you know. But the ones who was patrolling the camp, ok you didn’t tell them anything and, but they were quite friendly in a sense. Inclined to speak to you or, in their broken English, you know. But they were doing a job they had to do. Yeah.
TO: And did you ever get Red Cross parcels?
FH: Yeah. We had a few. More Americans than English which I think once we had one each. They weren’t very regular the whole time I was a prisoner of war. Often one partial where they would be shared between perhaps four or six chaps and then at one stage it was one box per room which was eight men. And it would consist of what do you call it? Chocolate. Very hard thick chocolate. Some butter or margarine stuff. Tinned milk. A bit of tinned meat. What else was in them? Oh, prunes and sultanas. That type of thing boxed up. And cigarettes. There was always about two hundred cigarettes in each parcel which to some people you know was food to them you know. In fact, I used to have the odd occasional cigarette but it was while I was a POW that I started smoking in earnest if you’d like to put it that way because there was always plenty of cigarettes. Some chaps used to trade their food for cigarettes but I didn’t get to that. I often bought food, bartered food you know for cigarettes you know but unfortunately, I didn’t give up smoking when I came home. I carried on until 1995. But yes the food parcel was good. It was good food. The English parcels were slightly different but unfortunately, we didn’t get many of them. Either of them. And didn’t get any at all after we left Luft 7. No.
TO: And what were the weather conditions like during the Long March?
FH: Weather. Way below twenty degrees. And as I mentioned a number of night marches you could call them and the snow and blizzards we apparently marched around so they tell us Breslau, Breslau a couple of times around the autobahn and it was just a complete blizzard the whole time. They had no idea where they were taking us to. The Germans hadn’t. And well now when I see a little bit of snow I shiver. I really hate the stuff. I’ve seen enough of it in my life. Yeah. But of course, we was walking in our boots. These fine shoes we had on. Yeah. We used to have a, we took them off at night but in the morning they were still frozen. Just walked in frozen shoes and that. But I went to the Medical Centre on one occasion with my toes and they said it’s a touch of frost bite but whether it was I don’t know but I’m still to this day suffering with my toes at night. They seem to get warm and sometimes go numb my two big toes. But there we are. We’re still here. Still telling the tale.
TO: Did anyone get, did anyone get hyperthermia?
FH: Well, I can’t honestly say about that, no. No. I can’t really answer that one.
TO: And were there any prisoners who were unable to go on when they got ill?
FH: Oh yeah. During the march, well those that were sick when the march started they were left behind or taken to a Medical Centre. But on the march they had a horse and waggon where they, anybody took queer was put into this horse and waggon you know and carried on on the march but what happened to them in the end I don’t know because there were so many that didn’t arrive in the camp at the end. Luckenwalde. Either gave themselves up or jumped in the river as we crossed over. Through the holes. Things like that. It happened I’m afraid. Yeah.
TO: Were you ever worried that Allied bombers would attack you?
FH: Well, we were concerned put it that way but I don’t think we ever encountered any.
TO: And did you ever wish that the Germans had left you in Luft 7 for the Russians to take?
FH: Well, we did actually. Our little group. Because it really took it out of us on the march. We lost a lot of weight. And of course, the only snag was the Russians, our RAF uniforms were very similar to some of the Germans uniforms in colour and the fear was that they would shoot on sight. Ask questions after, you know. So that was one of the reasons that there was nothing on the march but I think perhaps we might have been better off if we had stayed where we were. But on the other hand those that were like myself I said earlier we’d been after the Germans moved out and the Yanks arrived with their vehicles and they stopped the Yanks taking us out. They said they were evacuating us via Odessa. And the things I heard afterwards a lot of those chaps did go that way and were never heard of since. But how true we don’t know but it was a long way around or would have been, you know. Yeah.
TO: What else can you say about the morning that you were liberated?
FH: Well, I mean it was all hand waving and trying to contact, get in touch with the Russians because they were on the move with the tanks, you know and there were troops following by foot you know. But word was going around stay where you were you know because the Russians weren’t going to stop with their tanks. They was on the move you know. But yeah, it was joyous I suppose for a while. But when we realised that they was basically holding us as prisoners it changed. The mood changed completely because we was a number of days with them when the food was worse than what it was with the Germans, you know. So that was one of the reasons why we had, the others with me to leave the camp and get near the Yanks if we could you know. To get food and help because we, when I come home I was just under seven stone and in fact I was putting weight on so much I went to the doctor and queried, you know. But they sort of explained that it would be a thing to do but not to overdo the eating but it all worked out in the end you know.
TO: And how did you feel when you heard that Germany had surrendered?
FH: Well, we were quite pleased naturally and of course that’s when we thought we were on our way home but that was on the, was it the 8th of May wasn’t it? Yeah. I’d just had my twenty first birthday on the 3rd of May and that is when some of the chaps well we were actually, no I beg your pardon we were actually on the trying to contact the Yanks because they’d arrived at our camp on the 23rd and the war was still on when we, when we heard [pause] Sorry when we were on the march, on the move to get in touch with the Yanks is when we heard that the war was over. Yeah. And because when we heard these hand grenades going off in the lake after we got over the bridge, the River Elbe we thought there was some in-fighting going on you know. But it turned out that these Yanks were passing time away because they were bored and they was killing, blowing up all the fish in the lake. Yeah.
TO: And when did you get your first proper meal after leaving the POW camp?
FH: Well, we had food from the Yanks but I suppose if I remember right the first real meal was at the Army camp in Brussels right before I was flown back home. I was there basically a couple of days. Yeah. We had plenty of cigarettes given to us on the route but you know we weren’t really interested in those in a way we had so many of them. Yeah. I know we sat down to the meal in the Army barracks. Yeah. Amazing.
TO: This is just going back slightly but can you tell me how you actually felt during the bombing raids?
FH: What?
TO: Just —
FH: Us bombing them do you mean?
TO: No. When you, when you were above in the turrets.
FH: Yeah.
TO: You were on the raid.
FH: Yeah.
TO: What were your general feelings?
FH: Well, I must admit I didn’t think about getting shot down. It’s a, it was a strange feeling. You knew that chaps were being shot down. The planes not returning. Every day you heard it on the news you know but when you was actually doing it at least I didn’t think of being shot down. Not until I was sitting in the turret without any guns. Well, the first day I mean it was nearly a normal run. There was a few ack acks but over the Ruhr that was a different kettle of fish altogether. That was, well hell let loose is my opinion. As I said the only way, the best way I can describe it is today’s fireworks when they’re all in full swing and a load of them going off in the sky all different colours and that. Imagine that those were shells exploding and an aeroplane flying in between them and that’s as near as I can get for that. They weren’t coloured of course. They were just puffs of smoke you could see you know exploding all around you. Yeah.
TO: And how did you feel about the bombing campaign itself?
FH: Well, I suppose we thought it had to go ahead to win the war, you know. I mean I joined up to fly and that meant you’d be on bombing raids, you know. But you didn’t think, or I didn’t think personally that I was bombing people. I was bombing targets. I mean until we were walking along this canal in Munster after we’d been shot down and we had these two guards with us and on our left was a row of houses all burning. It would be about a hundred yards from where we were on the canal bank and they were running towards us when they realised there was English people being walking along this towpath. I mean that is when I realised or I realised I don’t know about the others that we may have killed people. When we saw the row of houses being burned and you know and they were running after us with pitch forks and broom handles which some of them got through and hit us across the back which well we’ll say no more. And we were pleased to get off that canal that night. Off that tow path. Yeah. That’s it.
TO: And how do you feel about the way Bomber Command was treated after the war?
FH: Terrible. They weren’t recognised at all for the work they’d done in my opinion and it took, took the authorities a long time to realise that, this is why I didn’t speak much about Churchill and I think we’ll leave it at that because he was the one who was leading the war. He was the one that followed instructions who made and gave instructions to the powers that be to do this and do that but he didn’t speak of us after the war when so many people was talking about Dresden. But what about Coventry and places like ours. Southampton and London. Yeah. There we go. But as far as I was concerned we were bombing military targets you know and it never entered our heads that we were killing people. No.
TO: Why do you think Bomber Command was treated that way?
FH: I’ve no idea except that [pause] I suppose they spoke about [unclear] so much that well they gathered it was wrong to do it. I think so but I don’t know. I think Bomber Command was treated very badly or the personnel were. That so many thousands gave their lives for and then not being recognised for what they’d done. Terrible. So that’s only one individual’s opinion. Yeah.
TO: And how do you feel about the Memorial in Green Park and Lincoln?
FH: I like that. I think it’s something well worth supporting and I admire the people that thought of it and that were running the whole scheme. And I hope and pray that I can get back there again and just place a poppy against my good friend Les and Phil’s name on the monument one day. Whether that would be possible I don’t know but what we saw of it on that opening day it’s a terrific place. Well worth the money being spent. Yeah.
TO: How did you feel when you heard about the Holocaust?
FH: Well, how can I word it? The shock to think anybody could literally do it. I mean ok soldiers were being killed in battle and that kind of thing on both sides but their whole lot of them just being put in a chamber. Oh. It don’t bear thinking about. And on our march we passed very close not knowing it at the time to Auschwitz. Of course, we knew nothing of it until after the war. You know, it made us, well made me think, well, you know we’re so close to where it happened you know. But there we go.
TO: How do you feel about Germany today?
FH: Germany?
TO: Today. How do you feel?
FH: Well, I think Mrs Merkel or whatever her name is is a funny woman but on the whole the Germans and I mean we’re doing the right thing to get together and that. When we first moved over here in this area from Hartley Wintney to Church Crookham in the bungalow just a few doors away from here our neighbour was a German POW over here and we used to have chats about it. We got on well together and I mean that is the only thing that’s going to stop another war I think. I mean we’re so intermixed now I think they were after the last war as far as the First World War but they’ve intermixed other countries have. More now over the last decade or so that I mean it nearly goes against the war. If it didn’t, well it would be a different kind of war and your air gunners wouldn’t be needed for one thing. But no I think it’s a good thing that we are getting together. Yeah. No, I mean we carried out our instructions. The Germans carried out their instructions. The troops. Airmen. So there we are.
TO: Did you, I probably should have asked this one before but did you feel any animosity towards Germany during the war?
FH: Well, I don’t know. I mean, we realised that the authorities had declared war against each other and that we had to do our [unclear] memories of England to bring an end to it in some form or other. And that’s, I chose to join the Air Force. Yeah. But I really think so many of us were so young we didn’t realise what we were letting ourselves in for, you know. But no regrets. No. We helped to bring peace to the world again. Although it makes you wonder whether if it was ever worth it with all the loss of life. There we go.
TO: And what do you think of films that have been made about the war?
FH: I’ve watched one or two but you cannot in my opinion [pause] now, what’s the word?
TO: Recapture.
FH: Yeah, the actual fighting and bombing I mean. You can’t recall in actual words. Now some have been sort of highlighting the humour and that put in them but no. I don’t. I don’t think, well they can’t capture the actual meaning of the battle. No.
TO: And what have you done since the war then?
FH: Not a lot. No. I’ve had numerous jobs but mainly shop work and selling which I enjoyed which I was doing before the war. I had one spell of lorry driving which I’d done for a major [unclear] in Hartney Wintney. And from there I travelled all over Scotland, Wales and England of course delivering shrubs. We worked for a wholesale. It was a Dutch firm actually operating out of Bagshot, just outside of Bagshot. He used to grow all types of shrubs and trees and we used to transform to various nurseries. Yeah. Quite interesting. He got me about a third of the country. But I was a member of Toc H which was formed after the First World War. And what else? Oh, when I retired yeah, sorry about that.
TO: That’s alright.
FH: When I retired and moved over here I joined the, I worked voluntary for a Day Centre for eleven years. Yeah. But otherwise just normal. I didn’t really have a trade. That’s why it is I’m not rich but I’m happy and I always have been and will remain so I hope. We moved into this flat what almost eighteen months ago now. Yeah. A brand new flat and we’re happy and cosy. Contented. Yeah.
TO: Have you ever been back to Germany at all?
FH: Unfortunately, no. I would love even to this day to be able to go back to Germany and visit the graves of my two friends. Yeah. But as I say not being a millionaire it’s always been against me but never mind. I always think of them. And although I do attend the local Memorial Service in the village where I was born and joined the Air Force throng on the 11th of November but if I can’t get there through bad weather I don’t have to go there to remember them. It’s the same with my brother that I lost. They’re in there all the time. Yeah. Never mind. Who knows what will happen in the future? Nobody does. No.
TO: Anything else you want to add at all about your experiences at all? Any stories that you didn’t mention before?
FH: No. Where are we? No. I don’t think so. I think it’s really been well covered. I will probably dream away tonight although I didn’t last time.
Other: No, it’s —
FH: But often when I’ve been to [unclear] not exactly nightmares but I kick my feet about and but I think I got over that one. We’ll let you know in the morning. No.
TO: Just one last question now to finish off there. What’s your thoughts on Britain’s involvement in events in the Middle East?
FH: What? The present day like you mean? Yeah. Well, personally I mean we do poke our noses in things quite a bit but on the other hand I feel that perhaps we missed out when the trouble in Syria started. We should have gone there and sorted them out there and then and prevented a lot of this that’s going on today. That’s my opinion for what it’s worth. But no, it’s [pause] I don’t know, the world’s got to get together somehow but how it’s going to happen I don’t know. If ever it will. There has always been wars. There’s always a weaker member. We learned that at school didn’t we? But I’m quite pleased that a lot of the schools I believe in England now are talking about the Second World War and what went on and that kind of thing. I mean for instance my granddaughter she’s a schoolteacher at Lee on Solent. No.
Other: Bexhill. Bexhill.
FH: Bexhill in Sussex and she’s got one of my books. Oh, she’s got this one. I think she’s got the one I showed you earlier, the first one. And on Armistice Days she brings that out and puts it on her desk. She talks to the class about it and tells them what her grandfather had done and she’s done that now for, well ever since 2009/10. But now she’s just given birth to her first child, my great grandchild. The photo is behind you. And so whether she’ll be back there in time for this year I don’t know. But she has done her part as a teacher to inform. And a number of the local schools have had photographs of my war years but that’s about all I think. Yeah. Thanks.
TO: Thank you very much. It’s been a pleasure.
FH: Thank you. Thank you for coming so far to speak to me and hopefully it’s not been a waste of time.
TO: It’s been an amazing way to spend my time. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Fred Hooker. Two
Creator
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Tom Ozel
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-08-26
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHookerFJ170826
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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03:02:20 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Fred Hooker was a mid-upper gunner on 102 Squadron at RAF Pocklington, where he flew three operations before being shot down. Born in Hartley Wintney in 1924, Fred’s first experience of the RAF was visiting RAF Odiham as a member of the Air Training Corps where he flew in a Tiger Moth and Blenheim. Enlisting in March 1943, Fred‘s initial training was at Lord’s Cricket Ground. Gunnery training was undertaken at RAF Stormy Down where he was introduced to clay pigeon shooting before being flown in Anson aircraft and firing at drones with a camera gun and eventually using ammunition. After qualification, he crewed up at RAF Moreton-in-Marsh before converting to Halifaxes at RAF Dishforth. In August 1944, his crew was posted to 102 Squadron at RAF Pocklington where Fred recalls witnessing a Halifax fail to take off as they arrived. Upon return from their first operation, they were diverted due to bad weather and remained at the diversion airfield for several days so Fred was relieved when they returned as he'd left his dentures at Pocklington. During their third operation, the aircraft failed to reach the briefed height but the crew decided to continue and were hit by either enemy anti-aircraft fire or a bomb dropped from above. Fred was in his position in the rear turret when he suddenly found himself sitting in open air as his turret had been blown away. When he reached for his parachute it was on fire and the rest of the plane was just a mass of flame. He saw the engineer rush to him and put out the flames on the parachute before guiding him to the escape hatch and pushing him out. As he descended a Spitfire was circling and the pilot dipped the wings before departing. Fred describes being captured immediately after abandoning the aircraft and the interrogation that followed. He was transferred to Stalag Luft 7, and the Red Cross supplied him with another set of dentures. Fred provides a graphic account of the conditions during the long march and the overcrowding in Stalag 3A. Upon waking up on the 23rd of April 1945, they discovered the German guards had disappeared. Russian troops arrived later and continued to treat them like prisoners but Fred's group managed to escape and join the nearby Americans. After being transported to Belgium, he was flown home and landed near Guilford. Despite being frustratingly close to home, Fred was taken to RAF Cosford for debriefing. After the war, Fred retrained and spent time travelling across France salvaging abandoned vehicles.
Contributor
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Ian Whapplington
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Great Britain
Poland
England--Gloucestershire
England--Yorkshire
Germany--Luckenwalde
Poland--Tychowo
Wales--Bridgend
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943-03-29
1944-08-18
102 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bale out
Halifax
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
prisoner of war
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Dishforth
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Pocklington
RAF Stormy Down
recruitment
shot down
Spitfire
Stalag 3A
Stalag Luft 7
the long march
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1135/11674/PSnookT1801.2.jpg
137dd66e818f1d402186e607d2a8fd6b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1135/11674/ASnookT180215.1.mp3
9ff814d0899d0cb6cb145b2b6d6a72b7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Snook, Tony
Tony Snook
T Snook
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Tony Snook (b. 1925, 1813151 Royal Air Force) as well as his service release book and photographs of his crew. He flew operations as an air gunner with 115 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-14
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Snook, T
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DK: Right. So, this is David Kavanagh for the International Bomber Command Centre.
TS: Yeah.
DK: Interviewing Tony Snook on the 14th of February 2018 at his home. Right. Ok. So, I’ll just put that, if I just put that there.
TS: Yes. Yes.
DK: I’ll, I’ll keep looking down to make sure it’s still, still working.
TS: Yes.
DK: Ok. So can I first of all ask you what were you doing before you joined the RAF?
TS: School.
DK: Ah.
TS: Well I left school. I was at Maidstone Grammar School. I left school in 1942.
DK: Right.
TS: When I, that was sixteen and, no. Seventeen. That’s right. And you were allowed to join the Air Force for aircrew at seventeen, at eight, seventeen and a quarter and then they kept you waiting for a year until eighteen. Then they called you up to Regent’s Park and you was, but you were actually sworn in.
DK: Right.
TS: And you got a number there. That, in, in 1942. That’s right. And then I went in in 1943.
DK: Right. Was, was the Air Force something you chose then? Is it something you wanted to do as opposed to —
TS: Well, I want to because I joined the, I went, the ATC. The school had an ATC squadron and I rose up and became a sergeant in the ATC and we used to go to camps. To West Malling just outside Maidstone which was a night fighter station which had Beaufighters and Defiants and Havocs. That was Douglas Boston with a searchlight in the nose.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Which used to illuminate supposedly and the Defiants flew alongside and shot it down. It didn’t often happen unfortunately. But anyway we used to go there and, that’s right 1940 I was fifteen and we were there and we were sent out to sweep up around the dispersals and things like that, you know. Just to, make do with us really. And the corporal, the engine, the engine fitter said, ‘Have you ever flown?’ I said, ‘I’m fifteen years old. How could I fly during the war?’ He said, ‘We’ll see what we can do.’ So anyway, the pilot came along to the Beaufighter. He was a flying officer then and he said, ‘Do you want a trip lad?’ So I said, ‘I’d love one.’ So he took me up in this Beaufighter. I stood in the well behind the pilot holding on to his seat. Well, it was still wartime. How would, how would health and environment think about that nowadays? [laughs]
DK: No health and safety.
TS: Yes. Anyway, that, but that was that but you know I was interested in aeroplanes anyway naturally. But that was wonderful I thought.
DK: So what did you think of your first flight then when you were —
TS: Wonderful.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Yeah. Because I could see. Just there was the chap’s head. And he was a Flight Officer Widdows who died about twelve years ago.
DK: Right.
TS: His, because I look at the Telegraph every day to see if I’m in it [laughs] But he was in there. He lived ‘til a hundred as an air commodore.
DK: Oh right.
TS: And his wife was about five years ago she lived till a hundred and she died about five years. So both of them lived ‘til a hundred.
DK: A hundred. Yeah and that was at —
TS: And —
DK: Sorry. Go on.
TS: Well, I mean then I was in. Because after that, we had actually what I first joined at the school was what they called the OTC. Officer Training Corps which was Army naturally.
DK: Right.
TS: And then I transferred to the ATC when it started. And so therefore at seventeen and a quarter I went into the Recruiting Office and applied to join for aircrew and they said alright. We went up to the house. Air Ministry house in London.
DK: Right.
TS: What was it called?
DK: Is it Ad Astra house is it?
TS: Ad Astra house.
DK: Ad Astra House. Yeah. Yeah.
TS: Something like that.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And you were given a medical and a small education test. And then you were sworn in and given a number. And you also were given a little silver badge which you put in the lapel of your jacket to say that, because you know people used to think oh, he looks a hairy, he’s not in the Service. We used to wear this little badge.
DK: Oh right.
TS: A little silver badge.
DK: Is that to stop people perhaps turning on you then and —
TS: Well, it might be. I mean it didn’t often happen —
DK: No.
TS: Very often.
DK: No.
TS: I mean surely they could see that the lad was probably not old enough to be in the air anyway. And I went in finally in November 1943.
DK: Right.
TS: Yes.
DK: So where was your first posting to then? In November 1943.
TS: ITW at Newquay.
DK: Right.
TS: Because I went in as PNB.
DK: Right.
TS: And I passed through ITW. Then they sent us to Theale near Reading.
DK: So that’s the PNB. Pilot, navigator —
TS: Bomber.
DK: Bomb aimer.
TS: That’s right. Yes. Yes.
DK: For the recording.
TS: And they sent us to Theale, outside Reading which was an EFTS. Elementary Flying Training School.
DK: Right.
TS: Which had Tiger Moths. And we did twelve hours there and I soloed after seven and a half and then completed the twelve. And then they had, this was just after the invasion, they didn’t lose as many as they expected. And there were rumours going around that so many people were [pause] if you were chosen as a pilot or that you wouldn’t. You know you probably might be made redundant. And this did happen a lot. The Air Force weren’t very kind at times, you know.
DK: No. No.
TS: No. Because naturally if we were PNB most of us that’s what we wanted to be. A pilot.
DK: Yeah.
TS: So anyway they thought I’d make a better air gunner [laughs]
DK: Was that a reflection on how you flew then or —
TS: No, because I got a good report from my instructor.
DK: Oh right.
TS: About flying. I mean after I soloed in seven and a half hours.
DK: Right.
TS: Which wasn’t bad.
DK: So it’s literally because they thought they wouldn’t need so many pilots then.
TS: Well, going forward when we went to Heavy Con Unit, flew Lancasters then we obtained an engineer.
DK: Right.
TS: And who was it? A pilot who they didn’t want. And you’ll see it on his, on the photo there.
DK: Yeah. Yeah. Oh right.
TS: With his pilot’s wings. And he was the engineer. They sent them to St Athans and gave them an engineer’s course. And there were lots of them so really I suppose that I was lucky because I kept flying because I met people who were with, started with me earlier on and they were doing one might say menial jobs about. And then I went to, they sent me to Stormy Down in South Wales to start the gunnery course. We didn’t used to fly from Stormy Down. We flew from an aerodrome nearer to Cardiff. Right on the coast. Which is now Cardiff International Airport I think and I can’t remember the name of it. It belonged [pause] I saw it began with P. But anyway we flew in Ansons there with the gunnery exercises and then after we’d done that we went back to Stormy Down and took the last exams and passed out and given our little brevets which that’s one there.
DK: Yeah. For the air gunner.
TS: Yes.
DK: Yeah. So, was ,was the air gunnery something you took to quite well then?
TS: Oh yeah. I’m a very, I suppose really I’m very, I was service minded. I wish I’d stayed in. But nothing mattered to me. I did what, you know.
DK: Yeah.
TS: It was what I liked so —
DK: So what sort of targets did you used to have to shoot at?
TS: Drogues behind the mainly Miles oh [pause] Miles, anyway. It was —
DK: Miles Masters was it?
TS: Masters. Something. Yes. Yes.
DK: So, they’re pulling a drogue and you’re —
TS: That’s right. Yes.
DK: Shooting at that.
TS: And the, to differentiate which gunner had, had got hits on the target the actual project, the bullet itself was painted with a soft paint and that used to make a mark on the drogue.
DK: Right.
TS: When it went through.
DK: Oh right.
TS: So anyway, did that and then after that I was, and one or two other off from Stormy Down went to Upper Heyford. North of Oxford.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Which was an old permanent station. A lovely place it was. All brick built and a lovely place. But we didn’t fly from there because they were laying, they were putting runways down. I think they were getting, the Americans had it afterwards. Maybe you remember that F 111s —
DK: Yes.
TS: Used to fly from Upper Heyford.
DK: Yes. Yeah.
TS: Anyway, we went to Upper Heyford and we, it was a lovely place as I say. And on the second day there, we had a sort of induction on the first day we were all put in to a big room. So many pilots, so many engineers, so, not, sorry not engineers, so many navigators, bomb aimers, and wireless op and two gunners and they said, ‘We’ll be back in an hour. Sort yourself out in crews and make sure you like him because you’ve got to fly with him.’ And that’s what they told us. So in an hour’s time all the people got together. I mean another gunner that I said, ‘Come on, Ron. Let’s join up together.’ And who do we look? ‘He looks alright.’ So we went over with Johnny Rimer, an Australian. So, that’s how we crewed up.
DK: Do you think, do you think that worked well?
TS: Yes.
DK: Because you’re, it was a bit unusual. The military normally you’re told here, there and there.
TS: That’s right.
DK: But with this —
TS: Yes.
DK: You had to sort yourselves out. It was very unusual.
TS: It was unique. No doubt.
DK: Yeah.
TS: It’s never happened since. You don’t get anything in the service which you sort of pal up with somebody and say maybe, I don’t know, a tank. It might be with a tank. It might be. I don’t know.
DK: Yeah.
TS: But that’s how they used to do it and it worked. Because I can never remember anybody saying, ‘Oh, you know, I don’t like you. I’m going to get out,’ because it didn’t happen. Everybody stayed the same. Yes.
DK: And is that where you found your pilot then was it?
TS: That’s right. Yes.
DK: And what was your pilot’s name?
TS: Johnny Rimer. John Rimer.
DK: John Rimer.
TS: An Australian.
DK: Right.
TS: From [pause] well, near Melbourne Australia. In fact we used to send, write and send Christmas cards right up ‘til the time he died which was two years ago.
DK: Oh right.
TS: Yeah.
DK: So there, can you remember the other crew you met up with there? Would have been your navigator?
TS: Yes. George, the navigator.
DK: George, the navigator.
TS: George, like, and he’s there anyway.
DK: Right.
TS: That’s George I think. There.
DK: Right.
TS: And he came from Warrington. But I can’t remember. It’s funny really I can’t remember his surname. I remember George.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Because that’s all it was to us. George.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And Eddie Harrison was the wireless operator.
DK: Right.
TS: Ron Stedman. Ron Stedman was the mid-upper gunner.
DK: The bomb aimer?
TS: The bomb aimer. The bomb aimer. Swettenham. Len Swettenham from London. The East End of London.
DK: Right.
TS: And he went out to Australia after the war and Johnny Rimer sponsored him.
DK: Oh right.
TS: He went out there. And that was the crew. And I’m the only one left of them. Everybody else has gone.
DK: So your flight engineer then. He came along later.
TS: Later. At Heavy Con Unit. Yes.
DK: Right.
TS: And he was the only one that was put into the crew.
DK: Yeah.
TS: He, you know, he didn’t say, look around and say, ‘I want to join them.’
DK: And can you remember his name?
TS: Yes [pause] Dick Tinsley. And they’re big farmers at Spalding.
DK: I’ve met him.
TS: Dick. Yes.
DK: Yeah.
TS: As a matter of fact I couldn’t remember his surname. He, funnily enough he was a bit the odd man out. He wasn’t very much of a beer drinker which we all were.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And I was in, I was invited to East Kirkby.
DK: Yeah.
TS: To the Lancaster.
DK: Yeah.
TS: In Lincolnshire. And my friend at the Golf Club is one of the, I think he’s one of the trustees. Paul [Mutitt]
DK: Oh right.
TS: He leant me a magazine and in the magazine was a reunion in Holland for the Manna trips.
DK: Right.
TS: And there was Dick Tinsley with a frame, you know.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
TS: To help walking. So obviously he wasn’t very good on his pins. But whether he’s still there or not I don’t know.
DK: Well, I saw him. I interviewed him for the IBCC on the 4th of June 2015. So he was still alive then.
TS: Yes. 2015 was when this photo was taken.
DK: Oh, ok.
TS: When they all did the trip to Holland.
DK: Because rather oddly I actually live nearby. I’ve since moved but I lived just up the road from where he was.
TS: Did you really?
DK: And I got to know his son. Also Richard Tinsley. And they, they knew the lady that my wife and I were renting a house off at the time.
TS: Oh yes. Yeah.
DK: So I went to see Dick Tinsley the senior and interviewed him then. And as I say it was 115 Squadron.
TS: Squadron. Yeah.
DK: And he said then he was a pilot, co-pilot. So he trained as a pilot.
TS: Yes.
DK: But as you say ended up as a flight engineer.
TS: They were never regarded as co-pilots.
DK: Yeah. Flight engineers.
TS: They were flight engineers.
DK: Yeah. That’s strange. Well, I think, I’m pretty sure he’s still alive.
TS: Is he?
DK: I haven’t heard anything to the contrary.
TS: No. No.
DK: Would you like me to find out or —
TS: Well, it’s a long time ago.
DK: Yeah. Well. I’ll ask anyway.
TS: Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
DK: I’ll let you know.
TS: No. I’d be interested to know if he’s still alive.
DK: Yeah. I was still in touch with his son just a few months ago.
TS: Were you?
DK: I’ll speak to his son.
TS: Yes.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Well if you take my phone number you can just give me a ring sometimes.
DK: Yeah. Sure. Yeah.
TS: And tell me.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Anyway, where did we get to? Heavy Con Unit didn’t we?
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
TS: That’s right.
DK: And do you remember where the Heavy Conversion Unit was?
TS: Yes. Langar, outside Nottingham. And as a matter of fact there was a factory next door to the airfield which reconditioned Lancs which had been damaged and they brought them there and they repaired them. And we did the course on heavy, on to Lancasters there. And that included which we didn’t know, I mean from Upper Heyford we were always flying in Wellingtons. Hercules engine Wellingtons which I forget now which mark they were but anyway Wellingtons have Merlins and we always had Hercules Wellingtons. And of course we did lots of cross countries but nothing outside. When we got to Heavy Con Unit we had to fly longer cross country’s down into the middle of France and back. And on two of them we had engine fires.
DK: Right.
TS: On the port outer. We didn’t, I mean, it was dangerous yes but I mean the graviner put it out straightaway and we just flew the rest of the trip on three engines and feathered the props and —
DK: So, what, what did comparing the two what was it like flying in a Wellington? What were they like as aircraft?
TS: Well, it was flying. On the other hand of course in Wellingtons there was only one turret so one of us used to go in the turret and one of us used to sit by the pilot because it had a, although the pilot’s sitting on the left hand side always and there was a seat. Some of them even had dual control. They used to sit there for the cross country. And another thing you used to go down and look through the astrodome and things like that.
DK: Right.
TS: Yes. Yes.
DK: So you got to the Heavy Conversion Unit then.
TS: Yes.
DK: Was that the first time you saw the Lancaster?
TS: Yes. Yes, it was.
DK: And what was your impressions when you saw that?
TS: Well, we reckoned it was a wonderful aeroplane anyway [laughs] and we, we had an instructor who, who was a bit wild and he used to throw it about. When he did a corkscrew you knew you were in a corkscrew. Yes. You know, he was the type of chap who if anything was in the fuselage through said, through you know you’d get parachutes coming up off the ground and going down like that and then flopping down. He was, he certainly used to throw it about. No doubt about it. But they put up with it.
DK: Yeah. Can you remember his name at all?
TS: No. He was, I honestly can’t remember his name.
DK: So the —
TS: Because after John, after John was passed out by him which wasn’t very long anyway we used to fly without an instructor after that on, you know cross countries, practice bombing trips with little twenty pound bombs and, but as I say these two cross countries from Langar down into mid-France and back again.
DK: Right. And you mentioned the corkscrew manoeuvre.
TS: Yes.
DK: What was that in aid of then?
TS: Well, you see you were sitting, sitting in the turret and you, ‘Skipper, enemy port quarter, five hundred yards.’ And you’d inform the skipper about it and then you would say, ‘He’d turn, ‘Prepare to corkscrew port.’ And then as he started to turn on his, the skipper would put, because you always turned into the attack. Turned in. Dived down. Turned to starboard. Back up. Over the top. Down and like that. That was a corkscrew.
DK: So it —
TS: And the rear gunner was expected to keep up a dialogue all the time that the attack was happening.
DK: Right. So, what, how would you describe your role as a rear gunner then? You’re sitting there and what is it you’re supposed to be doing for your —
TS: Well, you’re searching all the time. I mean not when, not when we were going to Italy bringing troops home. Things like that. But if you were anywhere near where there may be fighters you were searching. Going from port to starboard, port to starboard, port to starboard all the time. And looking up.
DK: So —
TS: It was better for you to look down in the main because —
DK: Yeah.
TS: The mid-upper looked up of course.
DK: Right. So you had to work as a team with the mid-upper gunner then.
TS: Yes. Yes. He didn’t, he would say anything if it was important but your dialogue was with the skipper.
DK: Right. So from the Heavy Conversion Unit then, you’ve then gone to 115 Squadron.
TS: That’s right. Witchford. Yes.
DK: At Witchford.
TS: Yes.
DK: So that was your first posting then.
TS: That was the posting. It was around about February 1945 anyway.
DK: Right.
TS: Yes. Yes.
DK: And, and you mentioned before, just before we put the tape on, the recorder on, the type of Lancasters they had there.
TS: I think they were Mark 1s when we first went there but they were gradually replacing them with Mark 3s.
DK: Right.
TS: They had had, in fact in my Lancaster, I’ve got a big book on the Lancaster and it does show 115 with Hercules. They are Mark 2s.
DK: Right.
TS: But funnily enough I mean the Hercules was a wonderful engine but the Lanc preferred Merlins.
DK: Merlins. Yeah.
TS: So they were reequipping them with Packard Merlins and paddle blades, you know.
DK: So by the time you got there then all the Mark 2 Lancasters had gone had they?
TS: Gone. That’s right. Yes. Yes.
DK: So how many operations did you then fly with 115 squadron?
TS: We flew five.
DK: Right.
TS: Three Manna trips. And there were two that won’t be recorded anywhere which I did.
DK: Right.
TS: And they won’t find anything about them.
DK: Right.
TS: No.
DK: So where were they to then?
TS: Well, they were just over somewhere.
DK: Oh ok. So that wasn’t with your crew then.
TS: No.
DK: No. Ok. So you did five altogether then.
TS: That’s right. Yes. Yes. Two nights. They were both to Kiel. And one to an oil refinery in the Ruhr. These were daylights. And one to, daylight to Bad Odesloe in North Germany and and the island in the North Sea [pause]
DK: Oh, Heligoland.
TS: Heligoland that’s right.
DK: Yeah.
TS: That was the last one.
DK: Right.
TS: Yes. Yeah. And coming back from it was a bit, it wasn’t amusing because the ground crew didn’t like it. Coming back from Bad Odesloe we used to fly in loose vics and after you know you got away gradually they broke up and we were formating with one. And just crossing the Dutch coast near Sylt and bang, bang, bang, bang three anti-aircraft burst right on our nose. A terrific clang and I said to the skipper, ‘I think we’ve been hit.’ Anyway, nothing seemed to be the matter but when we got down it had gone through the elsan [laughs] And the poor ground crew had to, I mean it hadn’t been emptied before the ground crew they had to clear this up. They weren’t pleased.
DK: Oh dear. So was that the only time you were hit by gunfire then or anti-aircraft fire?
TS: I think it was. That was the only time. I didn’t know of another time. No. No. No.
DK: No. You never saw any German fighters or anything like that.
TS: I did see one over Kiel.
DK: Right.
TS: And it was one of these. I think they used to call them lone wolfs. A FW190. And he was well above us and he dived down but some, he just went off. Kept going down. I could see him against the, where the, you know where the fires were down below. Going down. He just went down. It was an FW190 and I think they called them lone wolf.
DK: So the operations then, the bombing operations were all in daylight.
TS: No. The Kiels were night time.
DK: Oh right. Ok. Ok.
TS: Both. Yes.
DK: Right.
TS: Yeah. It was when the pocket battleship was hit by somebody from 115 Squadron actually.
DK: And was it your crew?
TS: And did a lot of damage to it.
DK: Was that your crew by any chance?
TS: No. It wasn’t. No.
DK: Oh [laughs]
TS: I remember very much the pilot who whose aircraft did do it and he was one might say, a bit of an uncouth sod [laughs] He used to eat peas off a knife. But he was a skipper and —
DK: Yeah.
TS: And I think it was his crew that did it. Yes.
DK: Right. So you mentioned earlier just before we put the recording on your pilot then went back to Australia.
TS: That’s right. Yes.
DK: So what happened to the rest of the crew then?
TS: Well, the mid-upper came with me to another crew and the rest just disappeared.
DK: Right.
TS: And I never heard. The only thing I did hear, Len Swettenhan, the bomb aimer he went on. He was taken off flying altogether and he told me that he went out to Singapore and he did quite well for himself because he was got put in charge of a stores down there [laughs] And I think he did quite well out of it. The pilot. Naturally Johnny went back and became a doctor in Australia.
DK: Right.
TS: Dick Tinsley, I’ve no idea what he did. He just disappeared.
DK: Yeah. I can tell you what he did.
TS: Well, he —
DK: He took up with farming so —
TS: Went to farming.
DK: Farming yes when I saw.
TS: Well, they were. When you’re going through you often see Tinsleys.
DK: Yeah.
TS: On those things in the field.
DK: When I saw him in the fields at the back they had about four hundred head of sheep.
TS: Oh really.
DK: So it was the sheep farming he were in to.
TS: Yes.
DK: And he did mention that post-war he just took up with the farm again.
TS: That’s right.
DK: That’s been passed on to his son now.
TS: That’s right. Yes. Yeah. Of course, they were, they were a big farmers weren’t they?
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
TS: And who else? Oh Eddie Harrison. He was just given menial jobs until he was demobbed. And then when he came from Liverpool. He went back to Liverpool and worked for the Liverpool Harbour Board. The Mersey Harbour Board. And funnily enough I didn’t hear ‘til later on through the Squadron Comrades letter that he’d moved to Oulton Broad. So I phoned him up and arranged to meet him at the pub at Gillingham. And we met there and had a drink and then he went off. And I’d gone away on holiday. When I came back I phoned up to make a [pause] and he’d died while I was away.
DK: Oh. That’s a shame.
TS: George. George was, I don’t, he was a lovely fella. A chap I always admired. Navigators. They used to sit at that desk with a chart and take us out there and back again not seeing anything. And really they were wonderful. How they could goodness only knows. They really were wonderful. George [pause] nobody, I asked the rest of the, you know the crew that like Johnny and Len Swettenham and Eddie if, because Eddie, George lived at Warrington which wasn’t very far from Liverpool. But he’d had nothing to do with him. No. No. He just disappeared. So that’s, and of course Ron Stedman, the mid-upper gunner, the last of the crew I’ll tell you in a minute. But he is not here anyway. But that was the, how the crew broke up.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And we went with a Flight Lieutenant Cantrell.
DK: And to which squadron did you go to after that?
TS: Oh, it was still 115.
DK: Oh, still in 115.
TS: Yes.
DK: Oh right. Ok.
TS: Yes.
DK: If I could just take you back a little bit you mentioned that you did three Manna.
TS: Manna trips.
DK: Manna trips.
TS: That’s right. Yes.
DK: So how did you feel about that? Were you —
TS: Wonderful. Wonderful. And one of the things that gave me great satisfaction, more than dropping bombs probably was when we were flying about five hundred feet and I looked down. There was an old gentleman with a black, a black Homburg walking along the dyke and he took his hat off and went like that. And I thought that’s wonderful. And funnily enough the other thing too with regard to Mannas that when we, when I went back to live in Kent at Bearsted there was a chap came and lived in the same road who’d been on the, he’d been in the army in Holland and he’d married a Dutch girl. And she was one of the people around Amsterdam Racecourse waiting for this food to be dropped. And you could see them all around and German soldiers all the way around.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Because [pause] I forget now where it is though I have read it that we started those Manna trips and we had no, no permission from Germany. They, although they’d been approached about it they hadn’t given anything. And I believe, I understand that another thing I’ve read is that because how it happened was that Prince Bernhard and Queen Julianna were living in London and they, through the Underground they learned how bad the Dutch were for food because the Germans had flooded their fields with salt water and things like that. And they approached Winston Churchill to ask if he could do anything. And that’s when he started. He gave the Air Force the order to do these Manna trips. And the Americans did it as well.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
TS: And in fact there was a major major major something. He was a south African on the squadron who used to wear the South African khaki uniform and he was one of the people that helped to develop these panniers which they put in the bomb bays and filled with food.
DK: Right.
TS: And this lady, when she learned that I was one of them she was overjoyed.
DK: So you could —
TS: Yes.
DK: You could see the people waving to you [unclear]
TS: Yes. Yeah. They were all standing around it.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
TS: Because we dropped into Amsterdam Racecourse and the other one. The other big [pause] Amsterdam. What’s the other big city in the Netherlands?
DK: Rotterdam? Or —
TS: Rotterdam. That’s right.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Yes. Yes. In fact, I think Rotterdam is now the big international airport isn’t it?
DK: Yeah.
TS: But that’s where we dropped them. There. Yes.
DK: So what sort of height were you at then when you —
TS: Well, we used to fly over the Dutch coast at about five hundred feet.
DK: Right. And do you know what sort of foodstuffs you were taking?
TS: Well, potatoes. You know. Dehydrated potatoes. Things like that. And lots of tinned stuff.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Yes, all kind of things which you could drop which would, which would be you’d think you know would put up with being dropped.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And we always used to get our chocolate ration and things like that and throw them out. I used to throw them out the back [laughs]
DK: So with 115 then you’ve now moved to a different crew.
TS: Yes.
DK: And did you fly any more operations with the second crew then?
TS: No more operations. The war finished then you see.
DK: Right. Ok.
TS: Because Johnny, the war finished when Johnny was taken away.
DK: Right.
TS: It was three or four days after the war finished.
DK: Right. And I’ve got, just for the recording here I’ve got a picture of you and you crew and the Lancaster behind it. Can you came them all now? Who’s who?
TS: Yes. That’s Dick Tinsley.
DK: Dick Tinsley. Yeah.
TS: Yeah. That’s George the [pause] George the navigator. Eddie Harrison the w/op. John Rimer the skipper. Ron, now [pause] what was the bomb aimers name?
DK: Ok. So that’s the bomb aimer.
TS: Yes. And me.
DK: Oh right.
TS: And Ron Stedman the mid-upper.
DK: Ah. Yeah. And was that your Lancaster at the back there?
TS: No.
DK: No.
TS: No. I mean people say, ‘Oh, you did all those?’ ‘No. That was the Lancaster that did it not us.’ And they asked what, what we meant and there was bombs on for bombing trips.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And windmills for Manna trips.
DK: Oh right. Oh, the windmill’s a Manna trip.
TS: Yes.
DK: Oh ok. Yes. Dick, Dick Tinsley has got that photo.
TS: I don’t doubt it. Yes.
DK: [unclear]
TS: Because how it happened was when we were, when we knew Johnny was going we went down to the photographic section and got hold of a WAAF down there.
DK: Right.
TS: And we stood and took, she took that photo for us.
DK: Well, I’ll definitely speak to his son. As I say when I saw him a couple of years ago he, well as you say he was walking with a bit of difficulty but I’ll see if he’s still around.
TS: Yes.
DK: I’ll let you know.
TS: Yes. I would imagine that he must have had something to do, or you know goes over to East Kirkby to the, at times because he’s not very far away from there.
DK: No. No.
TS: But he might be so incapacitated now. I don’t know.
DK: I’ll have a word with his son.
TS: He’s probably about two years or more older than me anyway.
DK: Yeah. So the war’s come to an end then.
TS: Yes.
DK: What were your plans then? What were you going, intending to do?
TS: Well, I wasn’t intending. I wanted to stay flying. That’s all. Which we did.
DK: Right.
TS: And when the crew broke up and then of course some weeks after that they started these trips to Italy bringing troops home. We used to fly down there and bring twenty home at a time.
DK: Right.
TS: And of course there was no need for both of us to go and Ron wasn’t terribly keen so I used to go all the time. We did three of those. And I used to look after the soldiers on the way back and probably give them a cup of coffee if they had —
DK: Can you remember where you picked them up from?
TS: Yes. Bari.
DK: Right.
TS: On the east coast of Italy.
DK: Right. And how many did you have in the aircraft each time?
TS: Well, there was the, that’s right, five of us because the mid-upper never used to go. And twenty troops.
DK: Right.
TS: Yes. And we used to put the officers in the bomb bay at the front [laughs]
DK: So some of the, some of the soldiers presumably hadn’t seen England for some years.
TS: Oh, they’d been in the eighth army.
DK: Yeah.
TS: They hadn’t been home for four years or more.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Never seen. And I met one, I don’t know how I came to meet him actually but he hadn’t been home for four years and we took off from Bari in the morning and we dropped them at, we used to use two aerodromes. Either Glatton near Peterborough or Tibenham just over the other side of the 140. Tibenham there because they had customs facilities and we dropped him at Tibenham and he was home for tea.
DK: Wow.
TS: But of course, you know it took, it used to take a bit of time coming from Bari. It’s not like the jet age.
DK: Yeah.
TS: When you do it in a couple of hours. It used to take us five and a half hours or so to —
DK: So, you were going over the Alps presumably then were you?
TS: No. I’ll tell you another thing. We always flew down to Marseilles.
DK: Oh right.
TS: Straight and then across the north of Sardinia to Naples and then to Bari. And we weren’t allowed to take parachutes.
DK: Oh.
TS: Because it wouldn’t have looked very good if we’d had parachutes and the twenty troops didn’t.
DK: Didn’t. Oh, I see.
TS: And that was it. The only one who had a parachute was the skipper. And he had to sit on his of course. The first time we went down we got near Naples and of course they, well luckily there was no one within sight of us anyway although there were Lancasters behind us coming down. And we asked Johnny Cantrell, we’d like to circle around Vesuvius and have a look down the crater. And that’s what we did. We circled around, had a look down a crater and then on to Bari. And the last time that I went down there we stayed there. We went down on November the 30th 1945 and through bad weather in England they kept cancelling the trip. Day after [pause] So we got up to Christmas and we’re not going to get home for Christmas and they gave us the option of either going to a holiday. We were, by the way at that time we had flown from Bari over to Pomigliano outside Naples and that’s where we were, then we landed there. And there’s a picture in my Lancaster book. All the Lancs at Pomig’ and our aircraft is in there somewhere.
DK: Oh right.
TS: But anyway, we went there and they gave us the option of either going to Rome or a holiday resort down south of Naples. Well, we, we chose Rome. So they took us in a QL Bedford. Most uncomfortable. About five hours on the drive up to Rome and we spent three days at Christmas in Rome.
DK: Right.
TS: In a football stadium. That’s right. And they, we had a wonderful time there. A lovely Christmas dinner with an Italian tenor singing to us. And we came back on January the 3rd. And that is a bit of a sad time for me after that because when we got back, the second day after coming back the gunnery leader called me in and he said, ‘You’re going off to an instructor’s course. Gunnery instructor’s course.’ So I said, ‘Oh, alright then. Yes. And then I’ll be back.’ And he said, ‘No. You won’t be coming back.’ So I said, ‘Well, I don’t want to go then. So cancel it.’ He said, ‘You’re going and that’s all there is to it.’ So I went. I went over to Andreas on the Isle of Man first of all and I wrote to the, I wrote to the crew. Never had any reply. Then I wrote to another skipper who was a friend of Johnny’s and he told me that ten days after that they were all killed. And in, I don’t know whether it’s in that Lancaster book but in one Lancaster book I have it gave every, the registration number of every Lancaster that was built and what happened to it.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
TS: And on February the 3rd 1946 they were out on a cross country and it blew up over Red House Farm in, in, [pause] over, near Warwick anyway.
DK: Right.
TS: Yeah. Leamington Spa.
DK: Right.
TS: Yes. And they were all killed because, and do you know the only reason I got to know this because I went home on a weeks leave around about that time and I’d taken a pair of shoes home. I used to take my shoes home and have them resoled. And the little boot mender in the village said, ‘Tony. What are you? You’re not here.’ I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘Well, in the paper you were one of a crew that was killed.’ And my name was in there. How it had got in there I don’t know. But anyway that’s how I found out about it.
DK: Oh dear.
TS: And I tried to find out what happened. No, no one would say. No.
DK: And that was your pilot then.
TS: The pilot.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And then strangely enough when I left Andreas and I went to the Central Gunnery School at Leconfield —
DK: Yeah.
TS: And I passed through there and went and they said, ‘Would you like to come back, Tony?’ So, I said, ‘I would like to come back here,’ because they had nice cricket facilities and rugby and it was a nice place to be. An old peacetime drome. So I went back to Andreas and they called and I went back to Leconfield.
DK: Right.
TS: As an instructor at the Central Gunnery School. And going back from leave from there one, I used to go up from Kings Cross from Kent and there used to be probably a paper train where you could go in and sleep for the night. And then they’d go off about 5 o’clock in the morning back to Hull you see. And anyway, down the cab was Bill Quinn. The wireless operator. I said, ‘Bill.’ He said, ‘I know what you’re thinking, he said, ‘Do you know what happened? I had sinus trouble that morning and they wouldn’t let me fly.’ So somebody else took his place.
DK: And rather strangely your name was down as one of the crew then.
TS: That’s right. Yes. Yes.
DK: Yeah.
TS: Yes.
DK: If, if you’ve still got the book has it got the serial number of the aircraft?
TS: Well, I don’t. No. I don’t think I, the book, this book I got with all the numbers in it I got from the Suffolk Library.
DK: Oh right. Ok.
TS: I don’t think mine has. I’ll get it out in a minute.
DK: Yeah.
TS: And just have a look at the back.
DK: You can’t remember.
TS: I don’t think it has. No. I can’t remember.
DK: No. No. You can’t.
TS: Numbers like that are so long.
DK: So it’s February.
TS: About February the 3rd it was.
DK: 1946.
TS: Yeah. It was the only Lanc that crashed around about that time.
DK: Yeah. I’ll have a look into that for you.
TS: As a matter of fact I thought that we were the last one or our, that aircraft was the last one that 115 lost. But some [pause] when I left Kent and come up to Norwich and working here and in the building next to our works a chap was interested in aeroplanes and he said, he said, ‘Tony,’ he said, ‘I saw an advert in the paper asking anybody who, about that time to get in touch.’ And I got in touch with these people and apparently whether they, because they went over to Lincolns and then to of all things Super Fortresses afterwards. And on, over North Norfolk they were they were either on an exercise affiliating with fighters and one crashed into them and that these were relatives who were asking if anybody remembered them.
DK: Right.
TS: And then as I say I went to Leconfield and I stayed there until November ’47. Then I came out. And I had a lovely time there.
DK: Just stepping back a bit. The relatives were trying to get in touch with which accident? Sorry. That was another one was it?
TS: Another one. Yes.
DK: Another one. So a plane.
TS: Yes.
DK: Did it hit a Lincoln or a Super Fortress?
TS: It collided with it.
DK: But it was —
TS: It was either a Lincoln or a Lancaster.
DK: Right.
TS: One of the two.
DK: So it’s around the same time.
TS: Around about the same time. Yes.
DK: Same time. Right. Ok.
TS: Yes. And they doing you know a big air exercise with the fighters affiliating with bombers probably intercepting them.
DK: Right.
TS: Which was very unfortunate. But it was so unfortunate when things like that happen. I mean Johnny Cantrell and his crew had done, they had done about fifteen I believe when we joined them and of course they go and do that and then they’re all killed.
DK: Oh dear.
TS: I have some ideas on it but I’m not going to —
DK: No. No
TS: Tell you.
DK: Fair enough.
TS: In there. You appreciate that.
DK: No. No. That’s fair enough. Right. So when did you actually leave the Air Force then?
TS: November ‘47
DK: Right. Ok. And what career did you go into after that?
TS: Well, I got married by the way.
DK: Oh right. Ok.
TS: In February the 10th. In fact it was our seventy first wedding anniversary last Saturday but my wife died three years ago. But that was our wedding in 1947.
DK: Right.
TS: And I had nothing to do. I mean I’d never done anything before going in the Air Force and I had some screwy idea pf another friend of mine because we lived in Kent in among fruit orchards of buying up the fruit in an orchard and that didn’t work out. So I went to work for a company called Serck, S E R C K whose headquarters was in Birmingham. And funnily enough they used to make the oil coolers for the Hercules engines.
DK: Right.
TS: They also made the oil coolers for the Concorde.
DK: Right.
TS: They developed that using fuel going through the matric to cool the oil. Which was a good idea but sadly they’ve gone now. They were sold to BTR. A load of asset strippers.
DK: Oh dear. The old story. So all these years later how do you look back on your time in the Air Force?
TS: An adventure. Yes. it was. Yes. It was. How I would have felt after doing thirty ops I don’t, I might have been nervous and one thing and another because lots of people were. I mean the great time when Bomber Command were really desecrated in a way was ’42 ’43 and up to almost the invasion in ’44. And when we went, when we went as I say we were sprogs really when we went there. And the Germans, you know they were so few, short of fuel. I mean the ones over the Ruhr. I did see some. This was in daylight but there were so many Spits around us and one thing and another that none came near us. But, whether, whether I would have felt different but altogether it was a great adventure. There’s no doubt about that.
DK: Ok. Ok that’s great.
TS: Yeah.
DK: Let’s stop it there shall we?
TS: Yes. Alright then.
DK: On that positive note. Well, thanks very much for your time. That’s been absolutely marvellous.
TS: Well, I hope it’s you know I’ve been —
DK: No. It’s very good.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Tony Snook
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
David Kavanagh
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-14
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ASnookT180215, PSnookT1801
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:49:17 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Tony Snook was an air gunner and served on 115 Squadron in the later stages of the Second World War. A member of the school air training corps, he had his first experience of flight when his squadron partook in a summer camp. He describes how an opportunity to stand behind the pilot of a Beaufighter holding onto his seat came about. He enlisted as a PNB (pilot, navigator, bomb aimer) in November 1943, after leaving school. Following initial training he successfully undertook elementary flying training, however, after D-Day there was an excess of pilots, and Tony was moved to an air gunnery course on the Isle of Man. He describes meeting his crew and arriving at RAF Witchford in February 1945, where they joined 115 Squadron flying Lancasters. Five operations were undertaken before the end of hostilities. He describes the only time they came under fire and, unfortunately for the ground crew who cleaned up the aftermath, the major damage was to the elsan toilet. As members of his crew were discharged after the war, Tony was allocated to another crew. He describes several operations to Bari, Italy to repatriate soldiers from the Eighth Army in Lancasters that ferried twenty passengers and five crew. In 1946, Tony was posted to a gunnery instructor course and then to the central gunnery school at RAF Leconfield. In February 1946, shortly after his posting from 115 Squadron, his crew were all killed in a tragic accident. Tonywas discharged in November 1947, he regards his flying career as a great adventure, but appreciates that flying operations in 1945 were completely different from those undertaken earlier in the campaign.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Ian Whapplington
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Netherlands
Italy
England--Kent
Wales--Bridgend
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
Italy--Pomigliano d'Arco
Netherlands--Amsterdam
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-11
1945
1946
115 Squadron
28 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Beaufighter
bombing
Flying Training School
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
RAF Langar
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Witchford
sanitation
Tiger Moth
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1271/17886/LBrittRG1739520v1.2.pdf
b99268ee5803cc0846735451cd928fa9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Britt, Ron
Ronald Gleeson Britt
R G Britt
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. The collection concerns Ronald Britt (b.1923, 1939520 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book and photographs. He was an air gunner who flew 30 operations with 103 squadron and Binbrook Special Duties flight.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Stuart Pearce, Debbie Pearce, nee Britt, and Gail Elizabeth Britt. It was catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Britt, RG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ronald G Britt’s navigator’s air bomber’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Navigator’s air bomber’s and air gunner’s flying log book for Ronald G Britt, covering the period from 1 October 1943 to 26 May 1945. Detailing his flying training and operations flown. He was stationed at RAF Stormy Down, RAF Wymeswold, RAF Lindholme, RAF Hemswell, RAF Elsham Wolds, RAF Binbrook and RAF Greenock. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Wellington, Halifax, Lancaster and Sunderland. He flew a total of 30 operations with 103 squadron and 103 special duties flight, 22 Night and 8 daylight operations. Targets were Aachen, Calais, Wimereux, Crisbecq, Vire, Flers, Gelsenkirchen, Le Havre, Sterkrade, Aulnoye, Beaupre, Domleger, Oisemont, Revigny, Fontenay, Douai, Orleans, Dijon, Rieme, Russelsheim, Gdynia, Chapelle Notre Dame, Stettin, Agenville, Eindhoven, Frankfurt, Kattegat and Leeuwarden. His pilots on operations were Flying Officer Colvin, Pilot Officer Green and Group Captain Shean.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LBrittRG1739520v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Poland
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Atlantic Ocean--Kattegat (Baltic Sea)
Belgium--Flanders
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Beaupréau
France--Calais
France--Dijon
France--Douai
France--Flers-de-l'Orne
France--Jura
France--Le Havre
France--Manche
France--Nord (Department)
France--Oisemont (Canton)
France--Orléans
France--Reims
France--Pas-de-Calais
France--Somme
France--Vire (Calvados)
France--Wimereux
Germany--Aachen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Rüsselsheim
Netherlands--Leeuwarden
Poland--Gdynia
Scotland--Greenock
Wales--Bridgend
Germany--Oberhausen (Düsseldorf)
France
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
France--Domléger-Longvillers
France--Fontenay
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1944-06
1944-07
1944-08
1944-01-28
1944-01-30
1944-05-24
1944-05-28
1944-06-02
1944-06-03
1944-06-04
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
1944-06-09
1944-06-12
1944-06-13
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
1944-06-16
1944-06-17
1944-06-18
1944-06-27
1944-06-29
1944-06-30
1944-07-04
1944-07-05
1944-07-06
1944-07-08
1944-07-09
1944-07-12
1944-07-13
1944-07-15
1944-07-16
1944-07-17
1944-07-19
1944-07-20
1944-07-23
1944-08-07
1944-08-08
1944-08-11
1944-08-19
1944-08-20
1944-08-25
1944-08-26
1944-08-27
1944-08-28
1944-08-29
1944-08-30
1944-08-31
1944-09-03
1944-09-05
1944-09-10
1944-09-12
1944-09-13
1944-09-15
1944-09-16
1944-09-17
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
103 Squadron
1656 HCU
28 OTU
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bombing of the Le Havre E-boat pens (14/15 June 1944)
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Binbrook
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF Greenock
RAF Hemswell
RAF Lindholme
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Wymeswold
Sunderland
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/848/17937/PHabberfieldM1801.2.jpg
5fb33bfae3641153ebcf52773e60f3a0
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/848/17937/PHabberfieldM1802.2.jpg
d568744fd357bc94287f0a1e9cac2407
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Habberfield, Margaret
M Habberfield
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history with Margaret Habberfield (b. 1923) and a group photograph. She served as a Women's Auxiliary Air Force telephonist at RAF Upwood and RAF Stormy Down.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Margaret Habberfield and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-01-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Habberfield, M
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Military band
Description
An account of the resource
Twenty two Royal Air Force and Woman's Auxiliary Air Force members of a band standing, wearing tunic uniform, in two rows. Most are holding musical instruments. In the centre of the front row are a male and a female officer standing behind a pile of drums. In front kneeling is an airman with a dog.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PHabberfieldM1801, PHabberfieldM1802
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Bridgend
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
animal
entertainment
ground personnel
RAF Stormy Down
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/544/19180/SHookerFJ1805487v10005.1.jpg
1bfb504207da0c9185005c71ec0649d9
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/544/19180/SHookerFJ1805487v10006.1.jpg
f214f03e6bc5b92496e448e930f8723c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hooker, Fred
Fred J Hooker
F J Hooker
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hooker, FJ
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. Two oral history interviews with Sergeant Fred Hooker (b. 1924, 1850487 Royal Air Force) and his scrapbook containing photographs and documents. He flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 102 Squadron and became a prisoner of war on 12 September 1944.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-25
2017-08-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GUNNERY SCHOOL SOUTH WALES
[Photograph]
FRED SECOND FROM LEFT SEATED
[Page break]
S. Walmesley
[signature] Ivan Johns [signature]W. Kennedy.
R.S. Hayward D. Hamilton D. Bennett R. Jackson J. Johnstone P. Kidd
F. Hooker
2ND FROM LEFT
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gunnery School South Wales
Description
An account of the resource
12 trainee airmen arranged in two rows. Fred Hooker is second from left, seated. They have a board with 'No 127 Course Air Gunners Squad 15, 3-1-44 B G'. On the reverse are signatures of all 12 men.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-01-03
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph and its reverse from a scrapbook
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SHookerFJ1805487v10005,
SHookerFJ1805487v10006
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Bridgend
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-01-03
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
David Bloomfield
Angela Gaffney
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Stormy Down
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/16/19615/LAtkinsonA1042303v1.1.pdf
4976658f4383bc124022f9606cde9a15
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Atkinson, Arthur
Arthur Atkinson
A Atkinson
Description
An account of the resource
Seven items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Arthur Atkinson (1922 - 2020, 1042303 Royal Air Force) his log book, service material and two photographs. Arthur Atkinson trained as a wireless operator and spent eighteen months at RAF Ringway before being flying 34 operations with 61 Squadron from RAF Coningsby and RAF Skellingthorpe.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Arthur Atkinson and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Atkinson, A
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Arthur Atkinson’s observers and air gunners flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observers and air gunners flying log book for Arthur Atkinson, wireless operator, covering the period from 28 April 1943 to 19 January 1946 and from 16 September 1950 to 30 September 1950. Detailing his flying training, operations flown, instructor duties and post war flying with 19 reserve flying school. He was stationed at RAF Stormy Down, RAF Yatesbury, RAF Bobbington (RAF Halfpenny Green), RAF Husbands Bosworth, RAF Winthorpe, RAF Syerston, RAF Coningsby, RAF Skellingthorpe, RAF Silverstone and RAF St Athan. Aircraft flown in were, Dominie, Proctor, Anson, Wellington, Stirling, Lancaster and Oxford. He flew a total of 34 operations with 61 squadron, 30 night and 4 daylight operations. Targets were, Stuttgart, Toulouse, Tours, Aachen, Paris, Brunswick, Munich, Schweinfurt, Bordeaux, Lille, Bourg-Leopold, Duisburg, Eindhoven, Nantes, Ferme D’Urville, St Pierre du Mont, Argentan, Rennes, Gelsenkirchen, Limoges, Prouville, Vitry, Beauvoir, St Leu D’Esserent, Culmont-Chalindrey, Nevers, Caen, Thiverny, Courtrai, St Cyr and Givors. <span>His pilot on operations was</span><span> F</span>light Lieutenant Acott.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LAtkinsonA1042303v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
France
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Belgium--Kortrijk
Belgium--Leopoldsburg
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--West Midlands
England--Wiltshire
France--Abbeville Region
France--Argentan
France--Beauvoir-sur-Mer
France--Cherbourg Region
France--Caen
France--Givors
France--Lille
France--Limoges
France--Nantes
France--Nevers
France--Rennes
France--Saint-Cyr-sur-Mer
France--Saint-Pierre-du-Mont (Landes)
France--Senlis Region
France--Toulouse
France--Tours
France--Vitry-sur-Seine
Germany--Aachen
Germany--Braunschweig
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Munich
Germany--Schweinfurt
Germany--Stuttgart
Netherlands--Eindhoven
Wales--Bridgend
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
France--Bordeaux (Nouvelle-Aquitaine)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
France--Langres
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1946
1950
1944-03-15
1944-03-16
1944-04-05
1944-04-06
1944-04-10
1944-04-11
1944-04-12
1944-04-18
1944-04-19
1944-04-20
1944-04-21
1944-04-22
1944-04-23
1944-04-24
1944-04-25
1944-04-26
1944-04-27
1944-04-28
1944-04-29
1944-05-10
1944-05-11
1944-05-12
1944-05-19
1944-05-20
1944-05-21
1944-05-22
1944-05-23
1944-05-24
1944-05-25
1944-05-27
1944-05-28
1944-06-03
1944-06-04
1944-06-06
1944-06-07
1944-06-08
1944-06-09
1944-06-21
1944-06-22
1944-06-23
1944-06-24
1944-06-25
1944-06-27
1944-06-28
1944-06-29
1944-07-04
1944-07-05
1944-07-12
1944-07-13
1944-07-15
1944-07-16
1944-07-18
1944-07-19
1944-07-20
1944-07-21
1944-07-25
1944-07-26
1944-07-27
14 OTU
1661 HCU
17 OTU
61 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bombing
bombing of the Creil/St Leu d’Esserent V-1 storage areas (4/5 July 1944)
bombing of the Juvisy, Noisy-le-Sec and Le Bourget railways (18/19 April 1944)
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
bombing of the Pas de Calais V-1 sites (24/25 June 1944)
bombing of Toulouse (5/6 April 1944)
Dominie
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
Proctor
RAF Coningsby
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Husbands Bosworth
RAF Silverstone
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF St Athan
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Syerston
RAF Winthorpe
RAF Yatesbury
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1337/20737/PLambAM17010001.1.jpg
585e121da7bc70aafd28a911d7b88ed0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lamb, Alexander. Album
Description
An account of the resource
32 items. Photographs of Alexander Lamb's service.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lamb, A
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
12 Airmen
Description
An account of the resource
12 trainee airmen arranged in two rows, annotated 'Gunnery School, Stormy Down'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PLambAM17010001
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Bridgend
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Stormy Down
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1337/20740/PLambAM17010004.1.jpg
7c39bae02233a4b36e06406912638c9f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lamb, Alexander. Album
Description
An account of the resource
32 items. Photographs of Alexander Lamb's service.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lamb, A
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Anson in the Air
Description
An account of the resource
An air-to-air side view of a flying Anson, captioned 'Anson 7 AGS 1944 Stormy Downs'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photographs from an album
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PLambAM17010004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Bridgend
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
RAF Stormy Down
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1337/20745/PLambAM17010009.1.jpg
7adf3e5dcee1be3b9f3ffe9f36e46d07
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lamb, Alexander. Album
Description
An account of the resource
32 items. Photographs of Alexander Lamb's service.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lamb, A
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Stormy Down Leave Pass
Description
An account of the resource
A pass issued to Alexander Lamb allowing him to leave his quarters until 23:59.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
7 AGS
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One typed pass with handwritten annotations
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PLambAM17010009
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Bridgend
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
air gunner
aircrew
RAF Stormy Down
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/556/22043/LSimpsonF2203970v1.2.pdf
3ddec0b03f0dcdfb4570a96e7ad06086
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Simpson, Frank
F Simpson
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Simpson, F
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Frank Simpson (1924 - 2019, 2203970 Royal Air Force) his log book, service and release book and photographs. He flew operations as a mid-upper gunner with 625 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Frank Simpson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Requires
A related resource that is required by the described resource to support its function, delivery, or coherence.
Frank Simpson was born in Manchester and volunteered for the RAF. After training as an Air Gunner in Wellington’s, he transferred to Lancasters and then was posted to 625 Squadron at RAF Kelstern, Lincolnshire. Flying as a Mid/Upper Gunner on several operations including Kiel, 9 April 1945, during which the German Heavy Cruisers Admiral Scheer was sunk and Admiral Hipper damaged. Over Potsdam, 14 April 1945. his aircraft was caught in a searchlight for seven minutes. Frank also took several flights over Holland as part of Operation Manna. Leaving the RAF as a Sergeant and starting as an electrician.
Andrew St. Denis
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Frank Simpson's flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers for F Simpson, air gunner, covering the period from 5 July 1944 to 20 May 1945. Detailing his flying training and operations flown. He was stationed at RAF Stormy Down, RAF Husbands Bosworth, RAF Sandtoft and RAF Kelstern. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Wellington and Lancaster. He flew a total of 11 operation with 625 squadron, 4 daylight and 7-night operations. He also flew 5 operation Manna. Targets were, Misburg, Nuremburg, Hannau, Brochstrasse, Bremen, Hannover, Hamburg, Nordhausen, Keil, Plauen, Potsdam, The Hague, Rotterdam and Gouda. His pilots on operations were Flying Officer Benson and Flying Officer Ollis.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LSimpsonF2203970v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Braunschweig
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hanau
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Hannover Region
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Nordhausen (Thuringia)
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Plauen
Germany--Potsdam
Netherlands--Gouda
Netherlands--Hague
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Wales--Bridgend
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1945-03-15
1945-03-16
1945-03-17
1945-03-18
1945-03-19
1945-03-21
1945-03-22
1945-03-23
1945-03-25
1945-03-31
1945-04-03
1945-04-09
1945-04-10
1945-04-11
1945-04-14
1945-04-15
1945-04-29
1945-04-30
1945-05-03
1945-05-04
1945-05-07
1945-05-08
1667 HCU
625 Squadron
85 OTU
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Husbands Bosworth
RAF Kelstern
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Stormy Down
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/501/22596/MCurnockRM1815605-171114-024.1.pdf
d9fa2a58ac51b1f20f8090cb5b2a4df8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Curnock, Richard
Richard Murdock Curnock
R M Curnock
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Curnock, RM
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-18
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
92 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Richard Curnock (1924, 1915605 Royal Air Force), his log book, letters, photographs and prisoner of war magazines. He flew operations with 425 Squadron before being shot down and becoming a prisoner of war.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Richard Curnock and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
THE
Prisoner of War
[Emblem] THE OFFICIAL JOURNAL OF THE PRISONERS OF WAR DEPARTMENT OF THE RED CROSS AND ST. JOHN WAR ORGANISATION, ST. JAMES’S PALACE, LONDON, S.W.1. [Emblem]
VOL. 3 No. 34 Free to Next of Kin FEBRUARY, 1945
THE FOOD SITUATION
By Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Howard-Vyse, K.C.M.G., D.S.O.,
Chairman of the Prisoners of War Department
I know well that many of our readers are much distressed by letters from Camps which indicate a lack of food, and I am writing these lines in order to explain the situation and, I hope, to provide some comfort.
By the month of May, we had established in Geneva a stock of some twelve weeks’ supplies, or about two million parcels. Thereafter, while the parcels continued to leave Geneva at the rate of 160,000 a week, they ceased to flow in, because the port of Marseilles was closed, first owing to unfortunate accidents to two of our ships, and then because of the invasion of the South of France.
In September, for fear of being left with no parcels at all, we were compelled to reduce issues to a parcel a fortnight. There could have been no worse moment to do this, with the cold weather approaching, and hopes vanishing of release before Christmas, and it is only too natural that our prisoners should feel depressed as well as hungry.
The situation was further aggravated by the decision of the German High Command not to allow reserves of food parcels in Camps, inconsequence of which some Camps were compelled to consume not half a parcel, as they should have done, but as much as two or even more parcels in one week. This resulted, of course, in the disappearance of the rest of the Camp reserves which had been built up against such an eventuality as stoppage of despatches from Geneva. But, from the latest information we have, it seems likely that this order will be considerably modified, so that, as soon as transport is available, Geneva may be able to establish such reserves once more.
In some Camps, too, numbers have been greatly increased by transfers from other Camps, as well as by newly captured prisoners. The worst instance of this is Stalag 357, which has been swollen by practically the whole of Stalag Luft VI, who apparently were not allowed to bring their food reserves with them. In view of the train shortage which must exist in Germany to-day – and which, incidentally, must be materially helping to shorten the war – it is perhaps unfair to attribute this entirely to ill-will on the part of the enemy.
Now for the brighter part of the picture. In the first place, I want to stress that, while we ourselves are pretty fully informed as to the situation, practically all our news and more besides, is in the hands of the International Red Cross Committee of Geneva, who of course get it before we do. The Committee therefore possess what everyone must have before they can act; I mean Information. The point is, have they the means to act?
As to this, the situation which originally obliged us to reduce the issue has vanished. The resumed flow via Marseilles, plus supplies which are going in via Sweden, is establishing once more a reserve in Geneva. The full issue of a parcel a week can now be resumed as soon as there are sufficient stocks in Camps. It is entirely a question of rail transport through Germany. It would not be surprising if the shortage of this were acute, but as a matter of fact, we have at the moment two reasons for feeling hopeful. One of the principals of the Relief Section, of whom I happened to see a great deal when I was myself in Geneva, has sent us a distinctly encouraging report of a visit he has just paid to Berlin. And the International Red Cross Committee have told us that they hope to get the Christmas parcels to all Camps by the middle of January. In view of the Russian advance it is dangerous to prophesy about the future. (Contd. overleaf)
[Picture of a horse with cart being unloaded by four men] Red Cross parcels being unloaded at Stalag 344, one of the largest camps in Germany.
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2 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
The Editor Writes –
At the time of going to press no confirmation has been received of reports that camps in Poland, East Prussia, Upper Silesia, in the line of the rapid advance of the Russian armies, have been moved back into Central Germany. Camps likely to be affected include Stalags XXA, XXB, 344, VIIIB, Luft VII, B.A.B. 20 and 21, Oflag 64, Ilag Kreuzberg, and the hospitals at Marienburg and Cosel. The War Office announced recently that assurances on the highest level had been received that provision will be made for the protection and welfare of all British Commonwealth prisoners of war liberated. The War Office also stated that “our plans are complete and the necessary staffs in readiness for action at short notice.”
Should any official information of a prisoner’s change of address be received, next of kin will be notified immediately; but the chances are that they themselves will hear from the prisoner first.
“Victorious Vanguard”
The Stockholm correspondent of the Daily Telegraph quotes a French sailor who escaped to Sweden from the Baltic Port of Kolberg, as having said that British prisoners who were being evacuated from camps in East Prussia, Poland and Silesia were in the highest spirits. The sailor said that there was a striking contrast between them and the Volkssturm battalions which filled the roads leading to the front. “As the British passed them they sang ‘Roll Out the Barrel’ and ‘Tipperary,’ and turned up their thumbs.”
The way in which these prisoners passed through the town, said the Frenchman, deepened considerably the wave of pessimism which had swept over the whole of that part of Germany. “You would think they were not prisoners, but the vanguard of a victorious army.”
Welcome to Repatriates
Of the 1,500 British and Dominion men in the latest repatriation, arrangements were made for British and Australian to come to this country and Indian and other Dominion repatriates to go straight home on another ship via Suez. Besides seven welfare officers who went out to Marseilles to meet the men, Mrs. Boyd-Moriarty, representing the Australian Red Cross, made the journey out and home on the Arundel Castle, and Miss Noyes went out representing Indian Red Cross to accompany those men who are to go straight back to India. Supplies of the Arundel Castle included 600 Indian Red Cross parcels for the use of homeward-bound Indians.
“They Shall Have Music”
Gramophone records and accordions from the Indoor Recreations Section were in the charge of Welfare officers on board for the entertainment of the repatriates. General comforts included cigarettes, bars of chocolate, slippers, stationery sets, socks, scarves, gloves and news – in the shape of Sunday newspapers and a special sports summary prepared for the Red Cross and St. John Press Section by the Daily Mail was flown direct to Marseilles.
Theatre Ban Lifted
Last month I mentioned that according to an order from the General in Command, all theatrical performances in camps situated in Wehrkeis (military zone) VIII had been forbidden, though concert and variety shows were still allowed. Readers will therefore be reassured to hear that in his latest report from Stalag VIIIA at Gorlitz, one of the camps affected, the British Man of Confidence writes: “In the middle of October the ban on theatre entertainments was lifted by the authorities and we are now permitted to put on one dramatic show per month, as well as the usual musical concerts.”
Situation Improved
I am most grateful to Mr. W.B. Morrison for a piece of good news which he has recently received from his son in Oflag IVC. He points out that in our December issue the visitors’ report on Oflag IVC stated that the prisoners could only take one shower every ten days. His son has written saying “The past week has been very hot … I spend most of the day getting in and out of hot, beg pardon, cold baths, which fortunately are plentiful.” It appears, therefore, that the situation has been much improved.
Marking Time
Under the title of “Marking Time,” prisoners of war who escaped from Italian prison camps into Switzerland and were interned in St. Gallen, created a monthly magazine. The first cover design showed an “evadé” sitting at a table, mournfully looking at a bottle of beer, waiting for things to happen. The magazine caught on. Its popularity extended far beyond the scattered community of internees, and requests for it poured in from British subjects in all parts of Switzerland. Donations were received, the paper was enlarged in size, and later, when the technical difficulties were overcome, became a self-supporting weekly.
Channel Islanders
A letter, written by a Channel Islander interned at Biberach in Germany to her nephew in this country tells that she was allowed to write to the Channel Islands. The Red Cross ship Vega which took the first batch of relief supplies to the Channel Islands will be familiar to my readers as having carried supplies of P.o.W. parcels on several occasions. Among other Red Cross supplies for the Channel Islands which have been earmarked for the future are 600,000 food parcels, 20,000 invalid diet supplements and further supplies of drugs. These plans will not in any way affect the flow of supplies to p.o.w.s in Germany.
THE FOOD SITUATION (Continued from page 1)
Now I want to ask a favour of you. A curious thing to do, I know, from people who are suffering from disappointment, who are receiving depressed letters from their prisoners, and who, especially those whose men have been captives for years, are full of anxiety.
Many of you work in offices of one sort or another, and know the difficulties of obtaining office staff. We here are suffering acutely from such difficulties, and, to put it frankly, have been snowed under with correspondence etc.
Will you please try to be patient, and not send us enquiries about the food situation until you have seen whether or not my own forecast proves to be justified. We, for our part, promise to keep you informed, through the pages of this Journal, if anything transpires to alter that forecast.
If you will do this, we shall be very grateful indeed to you, and you will be enabling us to reply more quickly to other, and perhaps more urgent, enquiries.
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FEBRUARY, 1945 The Prisoner of War 3
The Brighter Side
At the Special Request of Stalag XIA, we are featuring this Month Extracts from Their Own Reports of Camp Entertainments and Sport there.
[Photograph of a group of men, most in sports kit] League Champions, July 1944, III Division at Stalag 344. Left to Right: (Back) Dick, Charlie, “Jock,” “Steve,” “Hank,” Ginger. (Middle) Robin, McGinty, “Nobby,” “Tanky,” “Tidler.” (Front) “Jock” and Frankie.
In sending special reports of camp activities prepared by prisoners in Stalag XIA, the president of their Entertainment Committee requested that these might be published in the Journal, adding: “We wish also to thank the B.R.C.S. and the Y.M.C.A. for the tremendous help they have given us.” As a gesture of appreciation the camp music maestro has written and composed a march and called it B.R.C.S. (British Red Cross Society).
Entertainment at Stalag XIA
A sergeant has written the account of camp entertainments. He begins: “On recalling to ins the recent entertainments in our camp, one is struck by the similarity between the presentations here and those that take place in the big cities outside. We in our little world have been presented with a continuous programme, which has given almost the same expectations, thrills, laughter and relaxation experienced by all who followed the seasons of theatreland before the war. Just as the Haymarket in London gives its public that atmosphere and attraction so dear to theatre fans, our ‘Haymarket’ renders full justice to its existence.”
Music and Variety
Music is provided by Roy and his “Music Makers,” fourteen in all, “who never fail in obtaining a merited success.” Fred’s “Haymakers” supply plenty of rhythm, while Sid and his “Mandoliers” give concerts of light music. “Both Roy and Sid have played their own compositions, which have more than shown their ability as musicians.” Variety shows have been “outstanding because the player have that skill and enthusiasm to show their talent in various ways, their main theme being laughter and song.” Vic’s production of “Leilani” transported them to the South Seas the moment the curtain rose on his show, and the audience was apparently “overwhelmed with fun, song, wit and charm.” Then Bob, the president of the Entertainment Committee, produced and presented within three days Bob’s Variety, a show that proved to be one of the best yet.
Repertory Theatre
There is also a flourishing Repertory Theatre, which appears to have “gaiety” as its motto, for all the plays produced to date have been comedies. Pee-Wee’s Tilly of Bloomsbury, which was adapted for the stage from the book, provided an hour and a half’s hilarity, and Vic’s production of The Man Who Came to Dinner was also a success. Spud has produced You Can’t Take It With You – “the antics of the Martin Vanderhof family kept a packed audience in hysterics. We were informed that at times the players themselves had difficulty in not laughing.”
Future attractions will include Vic’s pantomime, Cinderella, and Terry’s The Petrified Forest.
The sergeant’s report does not confine his praise to the stars of these entertainments. He points out: “In every walk of life there are unsung heroes. We owe a great deal to the lads who work in silence to make the entertainment what it is.” Particularly praised are “the sterling capabilities and skill” of Harry and Lew, who backstage ”perform such miracles as you would expect of the fairy with her magic wand.” The report concludes: “Yes, we spectators certainly do appreciate our luck in having such entertainment which goes a long way in relieving the ‘barbed wire’ feeling.”
Sport
Association Football
According to “Onlooker,” football in the camp has been “going great guns these last six or seven months.” At the end of March, Alf Smirk, a professional forward from Southend United, arrived in the camp and took over the Lager XI. His team has played five games against combined “other National” sides and has a splendid record, winning four and drawing one, with an aggregate of 22 goals to 8. The first League run in the compound was won by Staff. The first seven-a-side contest was won by 12C (since disbanded) and the second by Staff.
Two knock-out competitions have been held and were both won by 14A, for whom Alf Smirk plays.
Rugby
Since February of this year Rugby has been played regularly in the cooler months, and, according to the corporal who writes the report of this season’s games, “by praying for rain we have worked in an occasional game over the summer.” He continues: “Despite the fact that the ground is only 50 yards wide, we play fifteen a side, but even with this congestion the backs, at times, perform very well.
“We have players from the British isles and all the Rugby-playing Colonies, some very good, some just good, but all very keen – this last has been the means of keeping the game going. We have had some very good games. The first, South Africa versus the Camp, was won by the Camp. England v. Colonies was won by England by one penalty goal in a very strongly contested match. On St. Patrick’s Day the Colts played England (with Kiwis, Springboks and Wallabies included in the side), for which they qualified, and won 6 – 5.
“Since then we have had various new prisoners (mostly recaptured from Italy) v. ‘Old,’ followed by a series of Anzacs v. Camp, which the boys from
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4 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
What to Send Your Prisoner Now
[Photographs of musical instruments, boardgames, books and magazines] Among the many articles sent to prisoners of war by the Indoor Recreations Section at St. James’s Palace are musical instruments, artists’ materials (paints in pans), crayons, plays, books and games. They go direct from this country and from reserve supplies held by the I.R.C. at Geneva.
This typical selection includes new books of every type from the fine arts to Wild West thrillers. Remember all books must pass a severe censorship.
Music is scarce and in great demand in the camps. Clean, unmarked copies will be warmly welcomed by the Indoor Recreations Section.
THE BRIGHTER SIDE
(Continued from previous page)
‘Down Under’ won 2 games to 1. We are most grateful to the Red Cross Society for supplying us with the gear to make all this possible.”
In Other Camps
In Stalag XVIIIA they take their musical entertainment seriously and according to a trooper who writes, just produces a “Cavalcade of Music,” illustrating the progress from primitive music, through the minuet, opera, music-hall, ragtime and swing to the modern symphonic jazz, closing on the optimistic note, The Song of Dawn. By contrast in Stalag VIIA they seem to take a far from serious attitude. One prisoner, writing, admittedly on a Saturday evening, says: “I and a chap from Paddington have just finished dancing the Big Apple, Jitterbug, Charleston, and anything that Fred Astaire can do. I don’t know what the Germans think of us, but they certainly must think we are a Crazy Gang. The noise and shouting is terrific, with a background of six mouth-organs.”
Camp Shows
The Dramatic Club in Stalag 357 have hit on a new idea. They are working on a scheme for producing a series of “Radio Plays” and revues which will tour the huts throughout the camp. The plays are read from behind a curtain of blankets. One is to be a murder play, The Silent Witness.
In Oflag IXA/Z they produced Busman’s Honeymoon, the three “female” characters being afterwards presented with bouquets. Two of these were of a fairly orthodox nature, but the third, for the charwoman, was composed of a couple of large sunflowers, complete with about 5ft. of stem! The lieutenant who has recently produced Hamlet at Marlag und Milag Nord writes: “I have never pictures myself before as a producer, and I have been startled at the result. The audience sat on hard seats for three and a half hours and would have taken more.”
R.A.F. Raise Money for P.O.W’s.
At and R.A.F. station in the Midlands they recently presented a play, the proceeds of which are to be devoted to buying play scripts for their colleagues still in Germany. The warrant officer who wrote telling us of this added: “The total collected was £25 from this and neighbouring stations. Might I suggest that other stations follow suit?”
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FEBRUARY, 1945 The Prisoner of War 5
The Letters They Write Home
From a Padre
Stalag IVC. 21.8.44.
After a wait of almost six weeks I am now posted to a working kommando in this stalag. As far as the censorship allows I will proceed to give you an idea of the place. Until just recently it consisted of about 1,200 men, but another kommando has been moved here and we now total about 1,800 British troops. They are made up if men from the British Isles, South Africa, and a few from Australia and New Zealand. The men are at various jobs of work and are extremely fit; most of them are very bronzed, walking about in shorts only.
My billet is at the end of one of the long wooden huts, and at the moment I am sharing it with a Cypriot M.O. The room is about 12ft. to 14ft. square. We have single spring beds and a table with a blue check cloth on it. The floor is concrete, which is clean and cool in this grilling weather. The walls have been painted yellow with a white frieze and ceiling. Altogether a comfortable spot! Two windows overlook the compound, and we have our own tiny entrance hall.
Padre Brown is about a quarter of a mile up the road in a kommando of 2,000 men, so you see that between us we have a pretty large parish.
… The men seem pleased to see a chaplain, and as I have at least a year more of service as a p.o.w. than most of them, I am looked upon as a bit of a Methuselah. I tell them that I am a good example of the work of the Red Cross. Bodily fit with the constant supply of food parcels – we have enough here until Christmas – mentally sound through the constant flow of those grand letters of yours and books, etc., sent out by the Red Cross.
A Camp Tour
Marlag und Milag Nord (Milag). 28.8.44.
I’ll just show you round the camp this week for a change.
This is my bunk; twelve men sleep here. Look out of the window and you’ll see my tomatoes. Yes, that is where I cut hair too! Do you like the poster? Over there is the fire pond. See the ducks? They all belong to the inmates here. You ought to see the model steamboats and yachts out there some days. The former run on dubbin fuel.
This is the cinema-cum-galley. There’s a film this week, Hello Janine – all-German talkie, singing and dancing. I went yesterday. Not too bad.
The gardens look well, intermingled with the rabbit hutches and hen coops. All kinds of pets kept here. You’ll see some puppy dogs presently. You get a good view of the countryside just here. This is the officers’ galley and mess hall, which is used for games in the evening.
You cannot go any farther this way, so come back the other side. As we return we pass the hospital. There is the main gate and guard room, adjoining is the ratings’ galley and mess hall, which resembles Monte Carlo in the afternoons. There are wheels and games on which you can get rich quick or, like me, broke quick.
The next point of interest is the theatre. The show running is called Choraina, a cavalcade of all the shows we’ve had. Not seen it yet. Going further we pass into a smaller compound which is the sports ground, where there are pitches for football, baseball and cricket. The Yanks are playing baseball. Football starts next month.
Come back now and the combine will stand you a cup of tea.
From Another World
Stalag 344. 10.9.44.
Met a new chap who has just arrived, only taken 15 days ago. Talking to him makes me feel like a savage from another world. He is only 19 and so he was just a school-kid when I left Blighty. Seems to look on us as relics of a bow and arrow era. Maybe he is right too!
[Boxed] SEND US YOUR PICTURES AND LETTERS
Ten shillings will be awarded each month to senders of the first three letters from prisoners of war to be printed. Copies instead of the originals are requested, and whenever possible these should be set out on a separate sheet of paper, showing the DATES on which they were written. The Editor welcomes for other pages of the journal any recent NEWS relating to prisoners of war.
Ten shillings will also be awarded for photographs reproduced across two columns, and five shillings for those under two. Photographs should be distinct, and any information as to when they were taken is helpful.
Address: Editor, “The Prisoner of War,” St. James’s Palace, London, S.W.!. The cost of these prizes and fees is defrayed by a generous friend of the Red Cross and St. John War Organisation. [/boxed]
[Photograph of six men in uniform] A few of the prisoners at Stalag XVIIA.
We start on half a Red Cross parcel per week next week. Cannot think what we should do without the Red Cross – bless them! I shall have to tighten up my belt, but I am not worried as I don’t think we shall be collecting them much longer!
New Arrivals
Oflag 79. 22.10.44.
It is amusing to observe the new prisoners as they come in (we have a number from Arnhem). It reminds one of one’s own early days “in the bag.” The number of signs and symbols they wear on their arms is amazing to us old kriegies! Of course they give us the latest news from home. Most of them seem to be very young. They are well looked after as soon as they arrive and given extra clothing and other kit.
I am very well, as we all are, except for occasional bouts of the “crowd-complex.” Naturally, living in these conditions we all get a bit tired of being on top of one another and feel sometimes we should like to get to a quiet spot in the country and live alone for the rest of our lives. But the feeling soon passes if you get on with your work, or go to bed, as I am doing just now.
His Room
Stalag VIIA. 31.8.44.
Things are the same here – work, play and sleep. The room in which I sleep holds six – four other Englishmen, one South African, whom we rag and jape from morn till night. Each night we keep the rest of them awake with our guitar and mouth organs. Our room is called Sunshine Corner if it’s quiet,
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6 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
[Photograph of six men] A group of prisoners at Stalag Luft III where they make a point of celebrating birthdays.
which is seldom. When the orchestra is playing it is called the China Tea Shop.
How They Live
Stalag 357. 3.12.44.
We live in bungalows, each having four rooms, all joined end on. Each room holds 72 men on double-tier bunks. Four bungalows make “A” compound.
The day begins at 7 a.m. with a brew – on alternative mornings in bed! A wash and shave and then roll call at 8 a.m. We are counted and then dismissed until the next “count” at 4 p.m. We sweep the hut, draw bread and potatoes and then until noon, when we have a hot soup or stew, we play or watch football, rugby, hockey or volley ball.
We have an excellent library, a gymnasium, and use the church hut as a quiet room during the week. We are allowed out and around the camp from rev. till 7.15 p.m. from which time until lights out (now 9 p.m.) we have talks, lectures, whist, bridge or crib drives, quizzes, a dance band or gramophone.
Work and Play
Stalag 344. 5.11.44.
I was very amused at the way you go to business, through clover and wheatfields and over stiles. We have a similar three-mile walk (slow pace), then a little work with a little shovel, and back to camp at a faster pace. We take tea with us and brew up on the job, just like a gang of navvies in the streets of London.
I was interested to know you had seen the Prisoner of War Exhibition. The main camps are like that, but I am at a working camp of 55. We have more facilities and much more comfort.
We hold conferences on world events every day – generals and cabinet ministers have nothing on us!
Two Counties Club
Stalag Luft VII. 16.8.44.
We have just formed a Lancashire and Cheshire club and there are only two from Stockport. The majority come from either Manchester or Liverpool. The club is going to contact the Manchester Evening News, giving names and
[Photograph of a group of men in three rows] The [underlined] SHEFFIELD & DISTRICT [/underlined] Club 1943 Stalag 383 – GERMANY. 1944
addresses of all who live in the Manchester district. So keep a look out.
By the way, I was fortunate enough to be selected to play for England at cricket. The match was played on Bank Holiday Monday, and after a very exciting game we won by 46 runs.
A Hard School
Stalag 357. 30.9.44.
We are in better billets, in spite of the fact that they are not quite completed, and the Detaining Power seems to be helping us to get settles and comfortable as much as they can, for which we are all grateful. We will soon be wishing each other a “Merry Christmas.” It seems hardly possible that I have been away from you so long, and I often wonder if you will think me a lot changed when I return. If I am, I assure you it will be for the better. This is the finest, if the hardest, school in which to learn patience and understanding. I have learned more of human nature since being a P.o.W. than one would normally learn in a lifetime, but how I long for home comforts, a proper bed and plenty of freedom. Believe me, it will take something to move me once I get back.
A Library Arrives
Stalag Luft IV. 29.8.44.
I have at last got hold of some technical books which will help me. When we moved from Stalag Luft VI, I parted company with my entire kit, including all my notebooks and textbooks, as did most of my companions. However, the technical library has arrived intact, so I can continue studying, and while I have no stationery I am managing on cigarette wrappings.
A small amount of Red Cross clothing and toilet articles has arrived and I have been lucky enough to win the cut for the following: 1 toothbrush, 1 comb, 1 razor and soap, 3 razor blades and 1 light vest. This comprises my entire belongings, together with the following which I arrived in: 1 great coat, 1 jacket and trousers, 1 short pants, 1 pair socks and boots, 1 shirt and 1 handkerchief.
We are all in the very best of spirits and exceedingly optimistic and get plenty of fun out of kriegie life.
How He Lives
Stalag IVD. 8.10.44.
You ask me if I live at IVD. No, I am at B.E.I., which is a working party of 170 men. As far as the billets are concerned, they are fairly good. We
[Picture] 1944 A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR ILAG VII 1945
A drawing of the canteen at Ilag VII sent as a Christmas and New Year Card by a Guernsey civilian internee to his mother.
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FEBRUARY, 1945 The Prisoner of War 7
live in rooms; three rooms in a bungalow, twenty men to a room, two men to a bed, one above the other. I am on the top as I think it is better – it is for reading, anyhow.
We now have our own shower-house and wash-place, which is very convenient. Of course, we are locked, barred and bolted in every night, not to mention being counted far too often for my liking.
From German to Drawing
Stalag IVG. 17.9.44.
I have given up trying to learn German; it would take too long. Instead I’ve been spending most of my time lately drawing. I have been able to borrow some paints, but I’m not much of a hand with these.
Our tomato crop must have reached the 5cwt. mark, but it is falling off now as the weather gets colder. It is just about cold enough for snow at the moment.
A Good Cake
Stalag 344. 1.10.44.
I think it’s unfair that you torment me with writing about special apple pie! Of course, by now I’m a pretty good cook myself; last week Gus and I made a grand cake out of the bread ration, two tins biscuits (hard), sugar, raisins, salt, Klim and Nestles. Apart from the fact that it was slightly burnt outside, slightly undone in the centre and slightly heavy, it was a good cake.
Sport - and Stitching!
Stalag Luft III. 15.9.44.
This week there was a big volley-ball competition, with a tote to make things interesting. All the boys wagered with cigarettes, and it was just like Derby day. Through “inside information” I managed to make a few, but as I smoke the old pipe most often, it mattered little.
One America v. Britain series which I mentioned before, ended in a win for the “Yanks,” but it was a lot of fun and time well spent.
Have just finished knitting a khaki scarf, which is useful at this time. What with the sewing, washing, knitting, etc., that I do, I would make a good wife for someone, but I guess that is out of the question.
Varied Activities
Stalag IVB. 26.9.44.
Things here are not bad, bags of entertainment such as football, boxing, etc. We also have a theatre, and last week I saw a show The Barretts of Wimpole Street, and it was excellent.
I do some tailoring now and again and so earn a few cigarettes a week.
We get our Red Cross parcels every week and receiving them is the main event of the week.
I have read in the camp newspaper that the black-out is finished now. I guess it suits you fine.
PERSONALITIES AT STALAG XXB
DESCRIBED BY A P.O.W. THERE
[Photograph of two rows of men in uniform]
BACK ROW. – I will begin from left with the big blonde, “Spite” H., Liverpool, whose ambition is bigger and better boxing gloves and cowboy books. Next is “Bull,” who is happy with a car, the dirtier the better. I come next: I want a good armchair and a radio. Next is my pal “Bun,” London, whose ambition in life is parties. Next is Lewis also from London. He is not fat but can he eat! Next is “Wog” from Bradford, our interpreter, the Lover No. 1. His pal Ron next, also from Bromley, London, whose hobby is cycling, now aims to learn the piano accordian and don’t we know it!
FRONT ROW from left.- The chap with the beret, Bull’s brother, just loves to argue and waits for the time when he will be slicing bacon again (by the way they are Scotsmen). “Pudding” comes next from Leeds, who just lives for his bed and says, “Why can’t you stay in bed all day?! Next is “Fitz,” also Scotch, who longs to be home with his wife and kiddy. Last is “Busty,” our singer, whose ambition is to be on the films.
Birthday Celebrations in the Camps
TIME-HONOURED birthday traditions are observed in the camps with great gusto. They are made occasions for special celebration as a change from the usual routine.
“A happy birthday to you“ in chorus greeted a member of Stalag Luft 3 on the morning of his anniversary, and he was treated to a cup of tea in his bunk. On the previous day a companion had spent six hours grinding up biscuits, dried barley and semolina to make flour for some “wizard” meat patties. Corned beef and onions were used for the filling, and the savoury result marked the occasion at lunch. A “gorgeous” chocolate pudding was produced for sweet at dinner after an excellent course of fried spam in egg-powder and vegetables, and apricot tarts at supper completed the day’s menu. Rations had to be saved for weeks to make enough for this “real do.”
A flying officer, also at Stalag Luft 3, writes home that he did not expect to spend his 21st birthday in a prisoner of war camp, but says that the best was made of a bad job. He was presented with an iced cake and much speculation was aroused as to how the colouring had been obtained. The cake was voted an excellent effort and later the secret was revealed – a drop of red water-colour paint!
One prisoner in Oflag 79 tried to keep his birthday dark, but someone had not forgotten it. The result was a very fine cake for which the ingredients were ground biscuits, raisins, egg flakes and margarine. The mixing and decorations in chocolate and jam were carried out by a fellow-officer, who before the war demonstrated cake-mixing and was able to add the deft professional touch.
On roll call at 8.30 a.m. a letter arrived from home wishing him many happy returns – timed almost to the hour!
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8 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
Linking Relief for the World
THE WORK OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE OF THE RED CROSS
By Colonel Charles de Watteville (Chief of the London Delegation of the I.C.R.C.)
[Photograph of people working on a map]
[Photograph of two women sorting letters] (Left) Working on one of the large maps showing German prison camps at the Central Office at Geneva, and (Right) sorting letters into alphabetical order. Each square represents one letter of the alphabet.
I was particularly pleased when I was asked to write this article for The Prisoner of War because I am often struck by the number of people I meet who are confused by the term International Red Cross. I shall begin with a very brief description of the Red Cross movement as a whole.
The Red Cross first came into being eighty-one years ago as a result of the experiences of a Swiss citizen – Henri Dunant – on the battlefield of Solferino, and the conclusion in August 1864, of the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armies in the Field. To-day the International Red Cross movement, which is governed by Statutes drawn up at The Hague in 1928, is comprised of:
The national Red Cross Societies (numbering sixty-two in 1939) with a total adult membership of over twenty millions.
The International Red Cross Committee – founded in Geneva in 1863 by a Committee of five Swiss citizens (now limited to a membership of twenty-five), and the forerunner of the whole Red Cross movement.
The League of Red Cross Societies – a federation of all the national Red Cross Societies, founded in 1919.
These aspects of the world-wide movement are linked by the International Red Cross Conference which meets every four years and is described in the Statutes as “the highest representative of the International Red Cross.”
The aim of the Red Cross is always to bring relief, whether in war or peace, to suffering humanity, and to this object the various national Societies, organised on a voluntary basis, devote themselves in every country. The International Red Cross Committee, with its headquarters in Geneva, is a completely independent and neutral organisation, composed entirely of Swiss citizens. It is in wartime the link between the national Societies and is the only organisation which, as the result of the trust placed in it by all belligerents, can work for the welfare of the war victims of both sides.
History of the Movement
Ever since 1870 the International Committee has set up in spheres of conflict, agencies for information and the relief of wounded and sick soldiers and prisoners of war. On the outbreak of the 194-18 war the International Agency for Prisoners of War was created in Geneva with a staff of 2,000 Swiss citizens, the majority of whom were voluntary workers.
The agency dealt with requests from thirty belligerent countries; its delegates visited five hundred internment camps; facilities were obtained for the evacuation of civilians from occupied territories and for the repatriation or hospitalisation in neutral countries of sick and wounded soldiers and medical personnel. The Committee organised the repatriation and exchange of prisoners of war of all nationalities after the first World War and co-operated closely with the national Red Cross Societies and other organisations in medical relief and reconstruction work in war-stricken countries. And between the two World Wars the Committee’s services were called upon for China and Abyssinia, in the Gran Chaco in 1936-39.
In 1929 there was signed in Geneva the Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, and under this Convention the International Red Cross Committee is expressly charged with the establishment of a Central Agency for the Exchange of Information about Prisoners of War.
In 1939, therefore, the Committee immediately began this work, as it had done in previous wars, and in June, 1944, its staff numbered 3,289, all of whom were Swiss and more than half of whom were voluntary.
By September, 1944, the index of the Central Prisoners of War Agency contained over 23,000,000 cards relating to prisoners of war and interned civilians; permanent delegates in forty-five countries had made some four thousand visits to camps and in all seventy-seven coun-
[Photograph of rows of card index files] This huge card index system contains over 23 million cards relating to prisoners of war and interned civilians of all nationalities.
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FEBRUARY, 1945 The Prisoner of War 9
tries had been covered by delegates and special missions. The incoming mail numbered 36,489,000 letters and cards, and the outgoing 38,225,000; in one month 134,200 letters and 5,900 telegrams passed through the Committee’s different departments. Over 1,000,000 books had been forwarded to prisoners of war and civilian internment camps, and over 26,000,000 parcels, valued at approximately 2 1/2 milliard Swiss francs, had been handled by the Committee’s Relief Division up to September, 1944.
Civilians, Too
The Committee’s work does not, of course, stop at caring for sick and wounded prisoners of war and interned civilians, but has been extended, in the face of almost superhuman obstacles, to bring aid to civilian populations – especially women and children – in countries overrun by the war.
For this purpose what is known as the International Red Cross Joint Relief Commission was set up in 1940 by the International Red Cross Committee and the League of Red Cross Societies, and it was this organisation which, together with the Swiss and Swedish Red Cross Societies, was able to bring food and medical relief to the famine-stricken populations of Greece and to the children of Belgium.
Another activity of the International Red Cross Committee is the Civilian Message Scheme, by which civilians in one belligerent country can make contact with relatives and friends in another enemy or enemy-occupied country. By September, 1944, nearly 17,000,000 of these messages had been transmitted to and from people separated by the war.
The Committee’s Section for Civilian Research had handled over 500,000 cases by the same date, some necessitating as many as fifty separate enquiries. The Central Index of the Dispersed Families Section will no doubt form the basis of a great post-war task of linking members of families who have become separated.
The Committee has its own Maritime Transport system known as the “Foundation for the Organisation of Red Cross Transport.” It runs a fleet of twelve ships (three of which
[Photographs of parcels in storage and being prepared for sending] (Left) Parcels for p.o.w.s who were transferred to Germany from Italian camps, as Basle Station ready to be readdressed by the International Red Cross. (Above) The routine inspection of parcels of goods for the camps.
are owned by the “Foundation”) which ply between North and South Atlantic and Mediterranean ports, and carry relief goods for prisoners of war and civil populations. These ships, which are marked “International Red Cross Committee” and sail under neutral flags, all have on board a representative of the Committee. By September, 1944, they had transported 265,486 tons of relief goods.
Countless Services
Possibly one of the Committee’s most important and delicate tasks is that of watching over the application of international conventions and in constantly appealing to belligerent Governments on behalf of war victims.
It will be realised that all this work, of which only a bare outline has been given here, is very costly. The Committee’s expenses for the year 1943 amounted to 8,700,000 Swiss francs. Two-thirds of the donations received came from Swiss sources; the remaining third is contributed by certain Governments and a small number of national Red Cross Societies.
I feel I cannot do better than conclude this article with a quotation from a recent publication of the International Red Cross Committee: * *”The International Red Cross in Geneva – 1863-1943” – Page 5.
“it is not to be avoided, in an organisation of such dimensions as the Red Cross, and so largely dependent upon helpers who are neither trained experts nor, in all cases, permanently available, that errors and delays sometimes occur. Where special, privileged channels are open to certain groups, or can be used for an isolated case here and there, it is obvious that enquirers will be satisfied more promptly. But the International Committee and its Agency view their mission above all as a service, not for some only, but for all without privilege or distinction. They rejoice to know that tens and hundreds of thousands are helped by other means than theirs; but the millions who have no access to special favours and whom nobody takes care of otherwise must also be served, and served first. The services demanded of the Committee are countless; they range from the transmission of prisoners’ names by the tens of thousands from Government to Government, to the search for a single missing individual; from supplying a sick prisoner’s request for some remedy indispensable to him, but unobtainable in the enemy country, to rescuing whole sections of populations, such as the children in countries suffering from famine.”
[Boxed] NUMBER PLEASE!
Please be sure to mention your Red Cross reference number whenever you write to us. Otherwise delay and trouble are caused in finding previous correspondence. [/boxed]
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10 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
Official Reports from the Camps
[Boxed] In every case where the conditions call for remedy, the Protecting Power makes representations to the German authorities. Where there is any reason to doubt whether the Protecting Power has acted it is at once requested to do so. When it is reported that food or clothing is required, the necessary action is taken through the International Red Cross Committee. [/boxed]
OFLAG VIIB, EICHSTAETT
Strength on the day of visit, 1,504 officers and 236 other ranks. Since the last visit in June, 1944, two new huts are in the course of erection for further living quarters. A small kitchen in each hut allows for the cooking of private parcels.
Prisoners can only have two hot showers a month. The general health of all prisoners remained good. Recreational facilities inside the camp are good, but all parole activities such as walks and visits to the cinema have been suspended for no given reason.
Censoring at this camp is unsatisfactory and mail is reported to be very slow. There is a new Commandant who is considered reasonable and fair. The camp is still overcrowded.
(Visited October, 1944.)
STALAG LUFT VII BANKAU
There are 800 prisoners of war of the R.A.F., Royal Australian Air Force and Royal Canadian Air Force in this camp. They are all non-commissioned officers.
At the moment the prisoners are all in temporary “standard huts” of which there are 190, each accommodating six prisoners. New barracks are being complete, and when these are ready for use it should be the best accommodation so far found in any prisoner of war camp in Germany. There is no lighting or heating in the temporary huts, but due to the hot weather and the long days, there was, up to the time of the visit, no necessity for such facilities. When the new accommodation is ready there will be both lighting and heating.
Sixteen of these huts are available for special purposes, such as sick rooms, school rooms, offices and library. A large barrack for the kitchen has been erected. The prisoners cook their own food, the only complaints being that there were not enough kitchen utensils, and so far no ration scale has been supplied. There is no stock of Red Cross parcels, but a supply has been despatched from Geneva. As is usual in most of the camps, there is very little on sale in the canteen.
There is no provision for either hot or cold showers, but the men take daily cold showers underneath a pump in the open air.
There was no British doctor or medical orderly in the camp; the German authorities have asked for them. The German medical officer calls twice a week, and a German medical orderly looks after the sick. All prisoners have been inoculated against typhus.
The clothing situation is poor. There is a cobbler and tailor attached to the camp, but there is very little repair material to be had.
The German authorities have asked for a Roman Catholic and a Church of England padre, who are expected to arrive shortly. At present a Methodist Minister is holding services.
Outdoor recreation is very satisfactory. There is a large free space where all sorts of games are played. Half of the kitchen barrack is being used as a ping-pong room where there are three tables available.
Mail is rather poor – in particular the receipt of private parcels. The German camp commandant is said to be satisfactory and on good terms with the prisoners of war. When the new barracks are completed this camp should be very good indeed.
(Visited September, 1944.)
HOSPITAL RESERVE LAZARET, EBELSBACH
The number of patients on the day of the visit was 10 Americans and 47 British. There is one British medical officer and three medical orderlies. The only material change since the last visit in May, 1944, was the construction of an excellent air raid shelter; a second is still being built. At present bed-patients are taken on stretchers to the completed shelter and doors are opened for the other patients to walk to a nearby wood, where there are natural shelters.
Owing to the number of other Allied prisoners of war in this hospital, the one barrack assigned to the British and American patients remains overcrowded.
Every patient has a hot bath once a week. There has been no shortage of water this summer. The food is reported to be better now than it has ever been in the past. There is a good stock of Red Cross parcels. Beer and a few matches are occasionally on sale on the canteen. Clothing is still satisfactory.
A new recreation hall has been opened which gives great satisfaction to all the prisoners. The mail from England has just started to arrive again. Medical treatment is most satisfactory. The British and American doctors are given an entirely free hand to run their section of the hospital, and all essential drugs have so far been supplied by the Germans. Surgical dressings are rather limited, but the gap is filled by Red Cross supplies. There were no complaints.
(Visited September, 1944.)
[Photograph of a group of men in three rows] STALAG IXC A group from a concert party held in this camp where there are 380 British prisoners of war. The general health of the camp is good.
STALAG IXC, MUEHLHAUSEN
The strength of this camp is 380 British prisoners of war, including 178 N.C.O.s, one medical officer and two chaplains. More than 100 prisoners had left this camp since the last visit in July.
Bathing and washing facilities are satisfactory and there were no complaints about food or cooking facilities. The order sent by the Red Cross to cut the issue of parcels to one per man per two weeks was accepted by the prisoners with understanding. The clothing situation was satisfactory.
Church of England and Roman Catholic services are held in the camp, but a recent order by the Germans forbidding chaplains to visit work detachments at
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FEBRUARY, 1945 The Prisoner of War 11
any great distance from the main camp rather limits the padres’ activities.
Outdoor recreation is very satisfactory. The prisoners are able to go out for sports every afternoon from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m., as well as on Sunday mornings. Indoor entertainments were curtailed after the prisoners had written and acted a sketch which, in the opinion of the Germans, insulted their country.
Mail, as everywhere else, has become very slow, the arrival of private parcels being particularly bad. The general health of the camp is good, and in spite of the recent orders mentioned above, the spirit of the camp is still excellent.
(Visited September, 1944.)
LABOUR DETATCHMENTS
DEPENDENT ON STALAG IXC
Working Detachment No.1278, Gleichamberg was visited for the first time. The compound is situated in a beautiful wood about 1,800 feet above sea level. The present strength of the camp is 37 British prisoners of war who work in a stone quarry near the camp. Working hours are 10 per day, Sundays are always free. There were no complaints about working conditions.
The prisoners live in a stone-built house containing one dormitory, one day room, a kitchen and a wash-room. There are double-tier beds with two German blankets for each prisoner, and most of them possess additional private ones. Lighting and heating are satisfactory. The roofs are reported to leak very frequently, but repairs are promised. Washing facilities are somewhat primitive, but cannot be considered as inadequate. The men receive the correct German heavy workers’ rations. The prisoners have their own cook, and a supply of Red Cross parcels for four weeks.
Medical attention is given by a civilian doctor and there is a British medical orderly in the camp. Dental treatment is good. The general state of health is satisfactory.
Although there is only a small stock of clothing in the camp, each prisoner has at least one uniform. Some have two. The camp has never been visited by a padre due to the recent order of the German High Command. The prisoners have had little chance to play games, but have been granted permission for a regular Sunday walk. In general this camp makes a good impression.
Labour Detachment No. 1401, Bleicherode, is still reported to be a good working camp. 133 British prisoners work in a salt mine. The air-raid shelter provided at the mine for civilian workers is also available to the prisoners. There
[Photograph of three rows of men in uniform] OFLAG VIIB A group of officers at this camp which is still reported to be overcrowded.
are no bugs now. The Men of Confidence from Detachments No. 1416, Sollstedt, and No. 1015, Bischofferode, came to Detachment 1401 for interviews with the visiting delegate, and their detachments are reported to be good.
At No. 1416, 65 British prisoners of war work in a salt mine for nine hours a day, with every Sunday free. The Man of Confidence confirmed that this is the best accommodated camp in the Stalag area. The 127 prisoners at No. 1015 also work in a salt mine for nine hours per day; every second Sunday is free. There were no serious complaints.
Detachment 737, Menterode. – The 138 British prisoners of war are employed in a salt mine near the camp. Some men work underground and others on the surface. There is no overcrowding in the barracks, and the interior arrangements are satisfactory. Some of the sleeping rooms are slightly infested with bugs, but arrangements for gassing the rooms are being made. Facilities for cooking private parcels are most primitive. Clothing is in order. Medical attention is given by a civilian doctor. Detachment 199, Springen, was expected to be moved shortly. The conditions are Springen were satisfactory. Detachment No. 106, Dornoff, where 58 British prisoners of war are employed in a potash mine, is also a good detachment. Some clothing had arrived recently, and this matter is now better except for a lack of small-size shoes. The potato ration had been increased.
Detachment No. 1039, Craja. – The work in the salt mine at this Detachment is considered dangerous, and the delegate insisted that the 90 prisoners should be moved.
(Visited September, 1944.)
STALAG 357, OERBKE, nr. FALLINGBOSTEL
This camp was transferred from North-eastern Germany at the beginning of August, 1944. It is situated in a country area about 2 km. from the very small town of Oerbke. The camp is composed of six compounds, the prisoners being able to move freely from one to another. The centre compound (E), which is very large, has plenty of spare space which can be used as sports fields. Also in this compound are several buildings for general use, such as four brick barracks installed as kitchens, six wooden barracks used as offices for the Men of Confidence; chapel, libraries, schoolrooms, workshops and two large laundries.
Compound “R” has 16 wooden barracks. Each of these barracks composes one large room, 72 prisoners sleeping is each on double-tier beds, and have two blankets each.
Compounds “A,” “B” and “C” each have six large brick barracks, which are divided into eight large rooms, each one accommodating 72 prisoners with the same sleeping arrangements as for Compound “R.”
Compound “A” is not yet occupied, as the barracks are still undergoing repair. When it is ready for use the Camp Commandant hopes to be able to reduce the number of prisoners in each room to 60, which will alleviate the overcrowding which at present exists.
Compound “D” is also unoccupied, but it is intended to use one of the two large brick barracks as a theatre and some schoolrooms and library, and the other as a church and some store rooms. The prisoners will be able to help in the work of repairing these barracks.
Air-raid trenches are being prepared, but as the camp is situated in a rural district it is said to be relatively safe.
On the day of the visit there were 6,512 prisoners in the camp, of whom 3,162 are R.A.F.N.C.O.s, who are not segregated from the Army personnel. This total also includes 645 Canadian, 349 Australians, 225 New Zealanders, and 415 South Africans. There were only three British prisoners of war in the camp hospital.
Daylight is insufficient in most of the brick barracks. It is intended to en-
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12 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
large the existing windows and to open new ones in the two end rooms. There will be no electric lighting at all in the camp until the work of installing the fittings throughout the camp is finished. Each room has two stoves, except for Compound “R,” where the stoves are ready for installation.
Washing and toilet facilities are adequate; in Compound “R” there is a large wash-house with 150 cold water taps, and hot water in large boilers every day.
Compound “C” has wash-rooms at the end of each barrack. Compounds “A” and “B”, when completed, will have the same arrangements; in the meantime the prisoners from these compounds can use one of the large laundries in Compound “E.” Each man is able to have a hot shower about once in ten days.
The prisoners cook their own food. They receive the same German rations as all other British prisoners of war. There was no complaint about the quality of the food. The chief difficulty is the lack of fuel for the boilers. There is no canteen at present in the camp, but the camp authorities promised to open one as soon as Compound “D” is completed. However, there is very little for sale.
At the time of visit there was no stock of Red Cross food parcels owing to the large increase in personnel. Nor was there any stock of clothing, and some prisoners are without greatcoats.
There are three chaplains in the camp, one Church of Scotland, one Church Army, and one Methodist. Arrangements are being made for Roman Catholic and Church of England clergymen to visit the camp.
So far little has been done in the camp with regard to recreational facilities. The prisoners will be allowed to start on the work of completing Compound “D” so that they may have a theatre, library, school, etc. There is plenty of room for exercise within the Compounds, including football and cricket, for which the prisoners have the necessary sports gear. The general state of health in this camp can be considered as good.
STALAG XIB, FALLINGBOSTEL
Of the 56 British prisoners of war in the main camp, four are N.C.O.’s and remainder other ranks. 1,981 British prisoners of war are in 10 work detachments based on the main camp.
There was an adequate supply of Red Cross parcels in the camp and labour detachments at the time of the visit. A new shipment of clothing had arrived and the position had consequently improved. Boot repair material is still short.
A Church of England padre arrived during June and is able to visit the working detachments. The camp leader is also able to go and visit the men stationed away from the main camp whenever he wants to.
The conditions in the camp hospital and infirmary are very good. On the day of the visit there were 22 patients in the hospital and three in the infirmary. The German authorities agreed to the transfer of four tubercular patients to the sanatorium at Elsterhorst as soon as transport was available.
No. 7004, Barum (Labour Detachment dependent on Stalag XIB) was visited for the first time since it was opened in December, 1943. 179 prisoners of war are engaged in laying a private railway line and live in two barracks situated in open country. There are nine rooms, each accommodating 20 men. A third barrack is used for washing purposes.
Interior arrangements are very satisfactory. There is plenty of space, and the heating, lighting and ventilation are good. Each man has two German blankets. A stove is available for cooking Red Cross and private parcels. Washing facilities are adequate. Cold showers daily and one hot shower weekly. The prisoners do their own laundry. Health is at a high standard and there is a good supply of medicaments in the small six-bed infirmary.
Every Sunday afternoon the prisoners are allowed to swim or play football. There is a supply of indoor games and musical instruments in the camp. Beer is delivered, but other canteen stocks are practically non-existent. Mail is rather slow at present.
(Visited August, 1944.)
Reports from other detachments dependent upon Stalag XIB, Nos. 7002-3 and 7004-7, appeared in last month’s issue.
[Photograph of men in uniform around a coffin] The funeral with full military honours of a prisoner of war from working detachment 855 attached to Stalag IVA, who died in hospital last year.
STALAG IVC
Repeated representations have been made through the Protecting Power concerning British prisoners of war in Stalag IVC, who are said to be working 12 hours a day, seven days a week, with one Sunday off a month. Sir James Grigg said in answer to a question in the House of Commons on January 16th that so far no satisfaction had been received, but that representations would be continued to be made as long as there is the slightest hope of achieving results.
CIVILIAN INTERNMENT CAMPS
ILAG WURZACH
Since the date of the last report on this family camp (see issue for May, page6) there have been some improvements, but the camp cannot yet be considered as entirely satisfactory. It is crowded; there are still vermin, and there is little free space within the camp perimeter, although walks can be taken in the monastery garden every day and the sports ground is available once a week.
Kitchen equipment is very modern and the internees can prepare their own food from the official rations and from the contents of Red Cross food parcels. White bread and milk are provided for the sick and for the children. Each internee can have one hot shower a week. Medical attention is satisfactory, and the state of health is good.
The camp library contains several thousand books and the internees have some musical instruments and indoor games. They have formed an orchestra and a theatrical company. The children receive instruction from professional schoolmasters and the kindergarten in well equipped.
The situation as regards clothing is satisfactory, but there is a lack of repair material.
Last visited by the Protecting Power on the 1st June, 1944, and by the International Red Cross on the 7th September.
ILAG LIEBENAU
Since the date of the last report on this civilian internment camp (see issue for May, 1944, page 6) there have been no great changes. Materially, the camp makes a good impression, the convent and adjoining buildings being of modern construction, while the garden and courtyard are well looked after. It has, however, been necessary recently to take steps against vermin. Each internee can have a hot bath or shower every week.
(Continued on page 15.)
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FEBRUARY, 1945 The Prisoner of War 13
Groups from the Camps
[Photograph of three rows of men, some in uniform, some in sports kit, two lying on the ground at the front] STALAG XXA
[Photograph of three rows of men] OFLAG VA
[Photograph of three rows of men in uniform] STALAG IVB
[Photograph of four rows of men in uniform] HEILAG IVD/Z
[Photograph of three rows of men in uniform] STALAG III D
[Photograph of three rows of men in uniform] STALAG VIII B
[Photograph of two rows of men in uniform] MARLAG U. MILAG NORD
[Photograph of two rows of men in uniform] STALAG 383
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14 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
EXAMINATION SUCCESSES
During 1944 the number of examination entries more than doubled that of the previous year. Over 6,000 examination scripts have now been received, and over 3,000 results were announced last year. The proportion of total passes for the year was 78.5 per cent., a figure reflecting great credit on instructors and candidates.
In a recent pass list issued by the Royal Society of Arts, there were 29 first classes out of 147 entries. Two of those who gained first classes also gained distinction in the oral test in French.
[Photograph of a group of men] The Theological Society at Oflag 79. This photograph was taken during the summer of last year.
Information has been received from the Institute of Book-keepers that one of their examination candidates, who was awarded a prize in the summer examinations, has written to them saying that the certificates he gained have been instrumental in obtaining for him a good position since his repatriation to Australia.
A Rover crew has been started in Stalag 383. Some of its members have sent home studies for Part I of the 1943-44 Scout Woodbadge Papers, and they have been forwarded to the Scout Headquarters in London.
A pass list for July to December, 1944, is in preparation and will be available soon. Application should be sent with 3d. in stamps to the Educational Books Section at the New Bodleian, Oxford .
Y.M.C.A. SPORTS MEDAL
Won by District Man of Confidence
The Y.M.C.A. sports medal, which was described in the January issue of the journal, may be awarded to any prisoner of war who has done especially good work in the interests of his fellow-men in captivity, as well as for outstanding sportsmanship. It has recently been won by a district man of confidence at Stalag IVA for carrying out his duties in “a most efficient and wholehearted manner during his term of office” on the recommendation of the chief man of confidence as a token of esteem.
His Tasks
The tasks of a district man of confidence in looking after the interests of the detachments in his area are exacting and varied. He is responsible for the distribution of Red Cross parcels, cigarettes, clothing and boots, Y.M.C.A. sports equipment and games.
He also sees that boots are repaired and clothing renewed when necessary, organises inter-detachment sports and football matches, and changes books and gramophone records to ensure that there is a steady flow of new material.
Infinite patience and understanding are required in answering the numerous questions put to him by the men; and his settlement of any little troubles which arise must be just.
[Boxed] How They Help
In addition to those mentioned below, we wish to thank the many kind readers whose help to the funds this month we cannot find room to record here individually. [/boxed]
Those who have been fortunate enough to be repatriated do not forget their companions they have left behind in the camps, and from many of them have come sums to be devoted to those who are still prisoners of war. Among them, Pte. F. Harffey, of Hastings, who was released from Switzerland, sends a contribution in appreciation of what the Red Cross was able to do for him and “to help my fellow-prisoners who are having a bad time in Germany.” Men who are still in the camp frequently ask their relatives to forward donations for them to the Red Cross, and Mrs. Burton, of Stafford, is one of the next of kin who has forwarded £5 from her husband.
At the present time money from many of the past year’s efforts is arriving. Mrs. McKinder forwards £55 from Hull, her third annual contribution, achieved by pickling onions, selling garden produce and fancy articles. “It has been hard work, but I have loved it,” Mrs. McKinder assures us, and she is already planning another year’s work. Mrs. Crowson, who lives in Lincoln, saves sixpence for every issue of “The Prisoner of War” which she receives, and among a host of regular supporters are Mrs. Huxford, of Woodbridge, and Mrs. Galloway, of Maida Vale, who send contributions every month.
Christmas sales of work find eager customers and once again we are indebted to those who have so successfully planned them to help the Red Cross. From a sale of home-made gifts and toys organised by Mrs. Francis (who had previously raised £69 by her own efforts) and three helpers at Wrexham has come £168. The 4th Whitby (County School) Guides have sent a cheque for £20, the result of a Christmas sale and entertainment which they arranged, while the Rayleigh Methodist Youth Club raised £60, also from a sale and concert, their fourth effort of this kind. A money order for £4 15s. has been sent by the pupils of Tynyrheol Council School, near Bridgend, as a special Christmas greeting and a Christmas gift of £10 came from Percymain School, Cullercoats.
Mrs. Brinkworth, of Forest Gate, has been busy stitching gloves for sale among her friends, and slippers made by Mrs. Fry have been purchased by people in Andover to the value of £10. £1 6s. has been sent by Mrs. O’Neill, of Preston, for her daughter, Pat, whose uncle is a prisoner of war, and has sold some of her precious story books to collect this money.
P.o.W.s Gifts for Children
Members of the Lothian and Border Yeomanry who are in Stalag 357 have sent home £100, asking that it should be spent to provide presents at Christmas-time for the children of their less fortunate comrades who have fallen in action.
£50 has also been received by the Welfare Fund of this regiment from men at Stalag 383, who made the same generous gesture of remembrance and loyalty to their comrades. As the money reached this country too late for Christmas, it will be used to send the children toys and savings certificates for Easter.
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FEBRUARY, 1945 The Prisoner of War 15
Red Cross Exhibition Coach
Over 23,000 people in five Lancashire towns have now visited the Red Cross mobile Exhibition Coach, which continues its 4,000-mile railway tour of England. The Exhibition is contained in a bob-damaged dining car which has been repaired, equipped with show-cases and lent to the Red Cross and St. John Penny-a-week Fund by the L.M.S.
Red Cross activities displayed include services to prisoners of war of food parcels, comforts and training schemes; and work for the wounded shows their transports to hospital, comforts, medical and surgical stores, and some of the reconstruction done during convalescence.
The coach will be on view at the station of at least 60 towns, and this month’s programme is as follows:-
February.
1st, 2nd, Bradford (Forster Square).
3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, Leeds City (South).
8th, 9th, 10th, Darlington.
12th, 13th, 14th, Newcastle-on-Tyne (Central).
16th, 17th, Sunderland.
19th, 20th, West Hartlepool.
21st, 22nd, Middlesbrough.
23rd, 24th, 26th, York.
27th, 28th, March 1st, Hull (Paragon).
CAMP REPORTS
(Continued from page 12)
Food is still excellent and there is a good supply of Red Cross food parcels. Medical treatment is satisfactory and the general state of health is remarkably good. The supply of clothing, however, especially shoes, is proving something of a difficulty.
Recreational and educational facilities are as good as ever, although it was reported in June that the camp theatre had been closed for three months. The German authorities promised, however, to take the necessary steps to enable the internees to give performances again.
Last visited by the Protecting Power in the 2nd June, 1944, and by the International Red Cross on the 7th September.
ILAG KREUZBERG
Since the date of the last report on this camp (see issue for July, 1944, page 6) there have been no outstanding changes. There are approximately 370 internees in the camp, some of whom are volunteers working in four different working detachments.
Every internee enjoys a weekly bath. Arrangements for private cooking are satisfactory, and there is a stock of Red Cross food parcels. There was, however, a complaint that too many dried vegetables were being received.
The state of health of the internees is generally satisfactory. Recreational and exercise facilities are still excellent.
Last visited by the Protecting Power on July 24th, 1944.
KNIT THIS
Cosy Cap
[Photograph of a knitted hat]
[Instructions for knitting the pictured hat]
A Prisoner’s Poetry
SGT. R.P.L. MOGG, a journalist by profession, who was shot down over Germany and taken prisoner early in the war, vividly expresses his experiences of flying with the R.A.F. in six moving poems written during captivity.
A fellow prisoner of war, Sgt. J.W. Lambert, has contributed striking pictures to illustrate the poems which he has lettered beautifully in Gothic style.
The collection, under the title of the first poem, For This Alone, published by Basil Blackwell (8s. 6d.) is printed in facsimile just as it was received from the prisoner of war camp. It includes verses on the vigil of airmen’s wives and a flight of bombers, which reveal a sensitive imagination, and the “Requiem for Dead Airmen,” with which the book ends is remarkable for its simplicity.
An introduction by Edward Alderton reminds those who might accuse the author of being morbid that the dividing line between operational flying and death is of a very nebulous character.
For This Alone is an unusual book which demonstrates once again the patience and creativeness with which prisoners of war master their circumstances.
[Boxed] FREE TO NEXT OF KIN
This journal is sent free of charge to those registered with the Prisoners of War Dept.as next of kin. In view of the paper shortage no copies are for sale, and it is hoped that next of kin will share their copy with relatives and others interested. [/boxed]
[Page break]
16 The Prisoner of War FEBRUARY, 1945
[Underlined] Please Study This Carefully [/underlined]
NEXT-OF-KIN PARCELS
With reference to the instructions on page 26 of the Prisoner of War for December, please note that the allowance of 20 extra coupons (and extra chocolate and soap) made to compensate for 1944 issues missed owing to the suspension of despatches, can be made only up to the end of February and only to next of kin who still hold a 1944/3 label (or earlier 1944 issue) with 20 coupons.
Next of kin who qualify, and apply for, the extra coupons for use with a label already in their possession, are particularly requested not to despatch a parcel with this label before they receive the extra coupons, because these must be accounted for at the same time as the issue already held.
If a parcel is sent in without the extra coupons being accounted for at the same time, they will have to be sent back to the packing centre for clearance, before any subsequent label can be issued.
The extra allowances cannot, in any circumstances, be made with a 1944/4 or any 1945 label.
Applications should state clearly whether the next of kin holds an issue of label and coupons, and if so, its number.
IMPORTANT. – Please note that no applications for an extra allowance of coupons to be used with a 1944 label will be considered after February 28th, 1945. Applications received after that date will not be answered.
DESPATCHES FROM FINSBURY CIRCUS AND GLASGOW
In consequence of the very great number of parcels received since the beginning of December and the difficulty of obtaining extra labour, the despatches from the Packing Centres at Finsbury Circus and Glasgow are about one month in arrears.
The issue of labels and coupons is also consequently delayed.
All possible steps are being undertaken to overcome the difficulties, and next of kin are asked to help by not making enquiries about the despatch of their parcel and the issue of their next label and coupons until at least two months have elapsed since they sent their parcel.
FOUR REMINDERS
Here are four reminders from Finsbury Circus Packing Centre which, if followed, will help Red Cross workers to deal with your parcels with the least possible delay:-
1. When packing your parcel, please be careful to see that it is not overweight. If it is, some important article may have to be returned to you.
2. When ordering chocolate and soap it must be remembered that the final weight of the parcel after the addition of these articles must not be more than 10lb. Money for chocolate or soap, also invoices, coupons and acknowledgement card must be sent inside the parcel – not by separate letter post.
3. All articles intended for inclusion in a parcel should be sent together; it is exceedingly difficult to link up articles sent at different times.
4. All three copies of the invoice which accompany each parcel to the Packing Centre should be clearly written so that they can be checked quickly.
STAFF WANTED
The Prisoners of War Department, St. James’s Palace, S.W.1, is urgently in need of staff, i.e., correspondence, filing and indexing clerks; shorthand and copy typists (women only). Full time or part time (30 hours weekly).
Offers of assistance, voluntary or salaried, would be much appreciated, and should be addressed to:-
The Personnel Officer, Prisoners of War Department, B.R.C.S. and St. John, St. James’s Palace, S.W.1.
Hours of interview: 10.30 a.m. to 12 p.m. or 2 p.m. to 4 p.m., with the exception of Saturday afternoons.
Money from P.o.W.s
As many enquiries about remittances from prisoners are still being addressed to St. James’s Palace, we reprint this notice.
Arrangements have been made with the German Government which enables a prisoner of war to transfer any part of his credit balance in Germany to this country. These arrangements operate as from November 1st, 1943.
Notification of the prisoners’ wishes are received by the Government on lists transmitted through Switzerland, and relatives will understand that these lists take longer to reach this country than letters from individual prisoners informing them of the impending remittances.
Enquiries should not be addressed to the Red Cross, which is not concerned in such payments. Relatives will hear in due course from the Paymaster or Bank concerned.
[Boxed] YOUR ENQUIRIES
The Prisoner of War Department at St. James’s Palace is very busy and very short of staff.
To enable essential enquiries to be answered with as little delay as possible, will you please make your letters as SHORT and CLEAR as you can. [/boxed]
CHANGE OF ADDRESS
If you are expecting your prisoner home in the forthcoming repatriation, do not forget to notify the appropriate Service Department or Record Office and the local Red Cross P.O.W. representative of any change of address.
P.o.W. Exhibition Catalogues
A few copies of the catalogue of the Prisoners of War Exhibition held in London last year are still available (price 6d., or 7d. including postage).
Those who wish to order a catalogue as a record of their impressions of the exhibition should apply to:-
Mr. Tomlins, Red Cross and St John War Organisation, Publicity Department, 24, Carlton House Terrace, London, S.W.1.
COUNTY REPRESENTATIVES
Please note the following change of address:-
ESSEX: Mrs. Hanbury, The Central Library, Duke Street, Chelmsford.
HAMPSHIRE: The p.o.w. representative is:
Mrs. T. Dodd, Old Library House, Dean Park Road, Bournemouth.
Printed in Great Britain for the Publishers, THE RED CROSS AND ST. JOHN WAR ORGANISATION, 14, Grosvenor Crescent, London, S.W., by THE CORNWALL PRESS LTD., Paris Garden, Stamford Street, London, S.E.1.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Prisoner of War February 1945
Description
An account of the resource
The official journal of the Prisoners of War Department of the Red Cross and St John War Organisation. This edition covers the Food Situation about food parcel delivery, Editors comments, Sport reports from the Camps, suggestions for parcel contents, POW letters, Personalities at Stalag XXB, Birthday celebrations in the camps, Linking Relief for the World, Official Reports from the Camps, Group photographs from the Camps, Exam results, charitable contributions, news about the Red Cross exhibition coach, a knitting pattern for a woollen cap, a poetry book and next-of-kin parcels,
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1945-02
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
16 printed sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MCurnockRM1815605-171114-024
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
France--Marseille
Germany
Germany--Bleicherode
Germany--Eichstätt
Germany--Görlitz (Görlitz)
Poland--Kołobrzeg
Poland--Malbork
Great Britain
Great Britain Miscellaneous Island Dependencies--Channel Islands
England--Bradford
England--Cullercoats
England--Hull
England--Leeds
England--Lincoln
England--Liverpool
England--London
England--London
England--Stockport
England--Woodbridge (Suffolk)
Wales--Bridgend
Wales--Wrexham
Netherlands
Netherlands--Arnhem
Sweden
Sweden--Stockholm
Switzerland
Switzerland--Geneva
Switzerland--St. Gallen
Lithuania
Poland
Lithuania--Šilutė
Poland--Tychowo
Poland--Żagań
Germany--Bad Fallingbostel
Poland--Kędzierzyn-Koźle
England--Northumberland
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
England--Lancashire
England--Lincolnshire
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Red Cross and St John war organisation. Prisoners of war department
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Anne-Marie Watson
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945-02
aircrew
animal
arts and crafts
entertainment
prisoner of war
Red Cross
sanitation
sport
Stalag Luft 3
Stalag Luft 4
Stalag Luft 6
Stalag Luft 7
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/573/23289/LGardR1852841v1.1.pdf
a6303bea6d23e7cd05c2ec0d98c509fb
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gard, Ronald
Ronald Leslie Gard
R L Gard
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Gard, R
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. An oral history interview with Flight Sergeant Ronald Gard (-2022, 1852481 Royal Air Force), his log book, correspondence reporting him missing and membership of the caterpillar club. He flew operations as a rear gunner with 463 Squadron and was shot down on an operation to Leipzig.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Ronald Gard and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ronald Gard’s flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners, flight engineers for R Gard, air gunner, covering the period from 7 March 1944 to 14 February 1945 when he went missing on operations. He was stationed at RAF Stormy Down, RAF Turweston, RAF Silverstone, RAF Winthorpe, RAF Syerston and RAF Waddington. Aircraft flown in were Anson, Wellington, Stirling and Lancaster. He flew a total of 17 operations with 463 squadron, 4 Daylight and 13 night operations. Targets were Brunswick, Nuremburg, Flushing, Bergen, Homberg, Dusseldorf, Ems-Weser Canal, Dortmund-Ems Canal, Trondheim, Giessen, Heimbach, Gdynia, Merseburg-Luana, Siegen, Politz and Rositz. His pilot on operations was Flight Lieutenant Padgham.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LGardR1852841v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Northamptonshire
England--Nottinghamshire
Germany--Altenburg (Thuringia)
Germany--Braunschweig
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Giessen (Hesse)
Germany--Homberg (Kassel)
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Siegen
Netherlands--Vlissingen
Norway--Bergen
Norway--Trondheim
Poland--Gdynia
Wales--Bridgend
Poland--Police (Województwo Zachodniopomorskie)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1944-10-14
1944-10-15
1944-10-19
1944-10-20
1944-10-23
1944-10-28
1944-10-29
1944-11-01
1944-11-02
1944-11-03
1944-11-06
1944-11-07
1944-11-21
1944-11-22
1944-11-23
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-08
1944-12-11
1944-12-18
1944-12-19
1945-01-14
1945-01-15
1945-02-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-08
1945-02-09
1945-02-14
1945-02-15
1661 HCU
17 OTU
463 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
missing in action
Operational Training Unit
RAF Silverstone
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Syerston
RAF Turweston
RAF Waddington
RAF Winthorpe
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1027/26179/LMcVickersCG1042135v1.1.pdf
2345da87e3c847e2ac316c46eb50751b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
McVickers, Christopher George
C G McVickers
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Flight Sergeant Christopher George McVickers (1922 - 2018, 1042135 Royal Air Force), his log book identity card and disks and his decorations. He completed a tour of operations as a wireless operator with 218 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Christopher McVickers and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-06
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
McVickers, CG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Christopher George McVickers' flying log book
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LMcVickersCG1042135v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Egypt
France
Germany
Great Britain
Oman
Singapore
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
North Africa
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Cumbria
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Rutland
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
England--Wiltshire
France--Calais
France--Le Havre
France--Saint-Omer Region (Pas-de-Calais)
Germany--Borken (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Braunschweig Region
Germany--Castrop-Rauxel
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Dresden
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hattingen
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Kleve (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Neuss
Germany--Recklinghausen (Münster)
Germany--Saarbrücken
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Gibraltar
Northern Ireland--Ballykelly
Oman--Masirah Island
Scotland--Kinloss
Wales--Bridgend
Germany--Wuppertal
Egypt--Suez Canal
Great Britain
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1951
1952
1953
1954
1955
1956
1957
1958
1959
1960
1961
1962
1963
1964
1965
1944-07-08
1944-09-05
1944-09-06
1944-09-08
1944-09-12
1944-09-13
1944-09-28
1944-10-05
1944-10-07
1944-10-15
1944-12-31
1945-01-01
1945-01-03
1945-01-06
1945-01-13
1945-01-15
1945-01-29
1945-02-01
1945-02-03
1945-02-13
1945-02-14
1945-02-15
1945-02-18
1945-02-19
1945-02-23
1945-02-27
1945-03-09
1945-03-12
1945-03-18
1945-03-22
1945-03-29
1945-04-04
1945-04-05
1945-04-09
1945-04-10
Description
An account of the resource
Flying log book for C G McVickers, Wireless operator, covering the period from 6 April 1943 to 16 August 1965. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and post war flying duties with 90, 97, 12, 100, 101, 199, 192, 220, 210, 224 and 205 squadrons. He was stationed at RAF Compton Bassett, RAF Stormy Down, RAF Topcliffe, RAF Millom, RAF Ossington, RAF Bircotes, RAF Gamston, RAF Chedburgh, RAF Wratting Common, RAF Stradishall, RAF Woolfox Lodge, RAF Methwold, RAF Feltwell, RAF Tuddenham, RAF Full Sutton, RAF Binbrook, RAF Scampton, RAF Hemswell, RAF Shallufah, RAF Watton, RAF St Mawgan, RAF St Eval, RAF Kinloss, RAF Ballykelly, RAF Gibraltar, RAF North Front, RAF Masirah Island and RAF Changi. Aircraft flown in were Dominie, Proctor, Anson, Wellington, Stirling, Lancaster, Lancastrian, Lincoln, Mosquito, Washington, Canberra, Shackleton, Prentice, Neptune, Varsity, Viking and Comet. He flew a total of 31 operations with 218 squadron, 21 Daylight and 10 night. Targets were Wemars/Capel, Le Havre, Frankfurt, Calais, Saarbrucken, Kleve, Wilhelmshaven, Vohwinkel, Castrop Rauxel, Neuss, Gelsenkirchen, Krefeld, Mönchengladbach, Dortmund, Dresden, Chemnitz, Wesel, Datteln, Hattingen, Bocholt, Hallendorf, Merseburg and Keil. His pilots on operations were Flying Officer Lloyld, Flying Officer Hill and Flying Officer Boome.
100 Squadron
101 Squadron
12 Squadron
1651 HCU
1653 HCU
1657 HCU
192 Squadron
199 Squadron
205 Squadron
210 Squadron
218 Squadron
220 Squadron
82 OTU
90 Squadron
97 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
B-29
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
Dominie
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Lancastrian
Lincoln
Mosquito
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Binbrook
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Feltwell
RAF Full Sutton
RAF Gamston
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kinloss
RAF Methwold
RAF Millom
RAF Ossington
RAF Scampton
RAF Shallufa
RAF St Eval
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Stradishall
RAF Topcliffe
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Watton
RAF Woolfox Lodge
RAF Wratting Common
Shackleton
Stirling
training
Wellington
wireless operator