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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/636/8906/ARoyallG150720.1.mp3
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Title
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Royall, George
G Royall
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Royall, G
Description
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46 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer George Royall (1801494 Royal Air Force) his flying log book, photographs, correspondence, course notes, examinations, newspapers and parts of magazines. He served as a bomb aimer on 166 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by George Royall and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
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2015-07-20
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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GC: OK, good afternoon. This is Gemma Clapton on behalf of International Bomber Command. I am here with Warrant Officer George Royall and we are going to discuss his role during the war and anything else he would like to tell me. George, please?
GR: OK. Well I’ll start from the time when I volunteered to join the RAF and I wanted to go into air crew and this meant that I had to go up to London and have all the tests for mathematics and educational tests and then it went on to physical tests to see if you would pass OK from the health point of view, and then an interview with a number of officers to find out what your interests were, what you wanted to do in the Air Force, and air crew and like most people the first thing I wanted to do was be a pilot. They decided that they‘d have to check. I had to sit with my back to wall and put my legs out on the floor and there in front of me about a foot away was a brass bar and as my feet didn’t reach that distance I was not able to be considered as a pilot. They then looked at the results of the tests that I’d done and the medical and the educational side and decided they could offer me a post as — at that time it was a plural (?). So I accepted that. I was very keen to get into the Air Force and they said I’d have to wait a couple of months so I had a little badge to say I was on deferred service so that there were no white feathers coming my way while I’m waiting and then in due course I received my papers to say to report to London to start training as air crew. I was err, there two or three weeks, again being kitted out with uniform and various other bits and pieces and a few inoculations and some drill from the sergeants to see if they could smarten us up a bit so that we could walk smartly in our uniforms and then I was then posted to ITW which is Initial Training Wing test so where you do your navigation and all that what was required on that side, mathematics again, studying the stars and it takes about three months, all we were doing was navigation and map reading and the physical testing that you have to do and um, that was quite interesting because I was at Stratford on Avon was my ITW and err, the people there were brilliant and also it was the home of the, Stratford on Avon had their big theatre there which they did all the plays by Shakespeare and that, we were allowed to go in as servicemen and have the best seats in the house for one and sixpence. They used to do three plays a week so they were doing one play that night, forgetting the play they did the night before and learning the play they were going to do the next night and it was fantastic and I learned more Shakespeare than I’d ever learned in school. During this time of course we were doing quite a lot of our tests and running around Stratford getting fit. We used to have to do a five mile walk every morning before breakfast and then we would go back to the classrooms and start doing the physical work there, and it was a quite interesting period. There were twenty eight of us on the course and at the end of that time we then were waiting for our postings as the next step. This all took quite a bit of time because there were lot of people volunteering for air crew and there were a number of ah, people in front of us waiting for their turns and so on and so it took some time between, probably a month or six weeks before you could get on to the next course and from then I went down to, I was posted down to Brighton. That was quite an interesting period of time because there were two hotels that were used by the Air Force at the time, one was the Metropole Hotel and the other one was called the Grand Hotel. The Metropole was the one I was in, most of the British servicemen went to the Metropole but the Grand had mostly Polish volunteers that were going through the Air Force routine. A lot of them had escaped or found their way through Germany ahh, to England and were going to move on into the service from there. At that particular time I did have a cold and needed to go into the hospital for a while and by the time I came out from the, that, my other twenty eight, or twenty other members had already been posted so err, Heaton Park which is near Manchester on their way to the next course and I was struggling to try and catch up with them by labouring everybody from the officers right to go after them and I was about three weeks before I could get up to Heaton Park and by the time that happened they’d already moved on. They’d gone to um, I think it was — moved on to Blackpool I think it was they’d gone to there. And so by the time I got to Heaton Park I then had to wait until another two weeks to try and catch them up and I got to Blackpool they’d moved on and been posted to their training place for their wings tests err, and that was it. They went to Canada. These were the air schools [unclear] mainly from either Canada or they did some in America and South Africa and I got to Blackpool and was waiting for my posting to come up. They called out my name and I went to South Africa which was a long way away from where the other people had gone. I was happy because I preferred the warmer countries rather than Canada so I was quite happy and so my next move then was to, the posting, was to Liverpool with all our packs. I had three kitbags and so I packed both back packs and I had to walk from Liverpool Station to the docks to where I picked up the troop ship that was going to take me South Africa and there was quite a lot going on there because they were going to go in, in convoy and so there was naval ships all getting ready to usher us round and so for three days we were just swinging at anchor. Each time we looked out of the portholes of the ship we thought we were at sea but we’d only swung round looking at the main part of the Liverpool Estuary err, but on the third day we then set sail out towards South Africa, and this was a very interesting journey. It took us approximately six weeks travelling and we were mothered by naval rigs and cruisers floating around us every time there was the risk of submarines in the area they would disappear off looking for the submarines while we sailed slowly, moved on because we had ordinary ships with us as well as our ships. There was another troop ship with us and um, we were only doing I suppose about ten knots. We could only go as fast as the slowest ships that was in the convoy which was some old type ships that we were taking various routes backwards and forwards to England and going back and getting some more from wherever. So then we started our trip and we went, we went round, we didn’t go through the um, — can I stop?
GC: Yes. [pause]. OK.
GR: We were not going to go through the Suez Canal we were gonna go round by the Cape so it was a much further journey and also, to try and avoid the submarines that kept appearing in the area, knowing that the troopships were about, we had to go, first of all we steamed North and almost into Iceland before we started to turn to go to the west and then we went west and as UT navigators and that, we were plotting our course and working out the mileage, or being told the mileage the ship had done each day and we realised that we’d gone oh, well north and could have been approaching Canada or American shores before we started to turn south and went south for some weeks before we then eventually went round to Cape Horn and first of all, and then err, before we got to the Cape and we came past [pause] it was Freetown we came down to that side of the East Coast down past Freetown and we pulled into Freetown and the sights were fantastic, the colours, greenery, it was beautiful and blue seas. There were little boats floating about with the Navy that were posted in Freetown and there were WAAFs in their white uniforms and the sailors in their whites, and it was a fantastic sight. Um, people were coming out from the [unclear] to sell their wares and throwing things up to the decks for us to buy, apples and bananas and all that type of thing. We stayed in there overnight, it was very, very hot and we were wearing our khaki [unclear] and had to pull our sleeves down and make sure we didn’t have our shorts on, had our long trousers on, ah, khaki because of the mosquitoes. Very uncomfortable from that point of view, really hot. And then um, the next day we set sail again to carry on and go round to Durban, called in at Durban and, oh before we entered, we stopped at um, the one before, Capetown and a lot of the troops that were on board, they got off at Capetown, I think they were Palestine Police. Got off at Capetown and we then continued the next day on to Durban where we were taken off the ship because the ship was then going on to um, up towards India, in that direction, with troops going further. Ahh, but we came off at Durban and we were put into, a whole group of us, put into a brick buildings. There were no doors or windows so there was plenty of air through and there was — a lot insects all over the place, in the roof and everywhere there was things flying about where we were stopping. It was a bit uncomfortable. We had bunks, metal bunks and err, our three biscuits for our mattress and it held about ooh, thirty or forty of us in this place and it wasn’t very comfortable. But on the wall at the back where my headboard was, there was a Praying Mantis sitting there waiting for any insects to come flying his way, quite interesting. Ugly looking thing it was and so that was that part of the thing. And um, we were gonna to be there for some time as our next move was to be to the air school where would start our flying. But during this time while we were waiting all we had to do was report for duty first thing in the morning and um, some of us were put on fatigues in the mornings, peeling potatoes and things like that and then the rest of the day we were free. We didn’t have to report again until the next morning and so you could wander all over that part of South Africa where the natives lived and into their huts and where they were and um, we were having quite a good time, it was some — interesting. Some were growing bananas and they had quite a lot of things going on like that and I could reach out from where I was and pick bananas as I wanted and it was a very enjoyable period of time. The people there were marvellous, mostly they were people who had left England and went out to South Africa to live and were having their families out there. Some of them had been out there some ten or fifteen years. So it was quite err, and they were quite good to us, took us, if we were walking along the road anywhere cars would come along and stop and ask if we wanted the rest of the day out. They would drive us down to the sea, [unclear] and we’d go swimming, It was a marvellous country really thoroughly enjoyed it. The only drawback was there was the apartheid that was going where the South Africans themselves, um, Boers they were and they were looking after the black people and they segregated blacks and white people and there was a group they called ah, coloureds, the half castes, where black people had married into the white people and there was another sort of generation type of problem going on. So there were problems in that sense but err, for us out there it was quite an enjoyable period of time. [pause] The Boers used to look after the, a lot of the black men were prisoners because they only had to look at a white woman and they’d be accused of raping them and it didn’t take much for them to accuse a black man to end up in prison and they were, while they were in prison they came out every day, they came out and marched in chain gangs through the town and at various places they’d unhook some of these prisoners and they would go and then they would be the workers for the people in that particular house. They would look after the children or do the cooking or cleaning and things like that, they’d move on. And then during [unclear] in that way their houses at the end of the day they’d all be collected, chained up and marched back to prison again, which was not a very pleasant sight. It was part of South Africa which, which was err, a bit disturbing. Of course later on then, nowadays they got rid of the apartheid fortunately, but at that time it was very rampant. And then from then I then got posted to the air school, 48 Air School and we started our flying and we were flying in Ansons aircraft that was mostly used. Ahh, mostly they went to places like South Africa ‘cos you could fly every day, there was no problem weather-wise and there was no Germans anywhere near by so there was nothing to put us off from going up flying every day. So we used to do our navigation and trips and practising air gunnery and all these sort of things and do our ground course as well because we had to learn all about the stars and navigation using, by using the stars as a means of finding a fix and um, [pause] we would do all the ground work that was necessary and be taking our exams from time to time err, until such time as we sat the final exam and if we passed that we then got our wings, which was now as an air bomber because they split the observer trade into two because there was so much problems with earlier bombs not going into Germany, that they weren’t getting close to their targets or they were dropping their bombs miles away from their target so they decided they needed more technical help and needed more staff to operate things like H2S and G and the navigator was left to do the plotting on to the ground course map the course and pass the information to the pilot and the bomb aimer used to do the map reading, operate the G and H2S and the navigator could then do his work easier, a bit easier, with all the calculations because he used to have to plot a fix every six minutes which was [laughter] a pretty horrendous task really and they’d keep changing and working out from the wind directions and from the air speed and a lot of information was being fed to the navigator, some from the pilot giving him speeds and air speeds and the bomb aimer would be passing the information as to when he got fixes across rivers or along the coast line and times of where exactly and accurately put on the navigators plot so he could actually check he was on the course correctly, and um in the event of — We then got our wings and then ready to return back to England but even that was a bit of a problem, there was twenty of us on the course and they decided that there would be, I think it was five, five going back to England and the rest was going to go up to North Africa as they had sufficient on a course so they could be able to be bomb aimers in North Africa where they were going to be up, going to Tobruk where there were British people up, up there. The Germans barricaded them in and the Americans were flying bombing missions trying to bomb the German tanks and they were using pattern bombing and they had about twenty bombers flying over the, at fairly low level and they had a master bomber in the first aircraft and as they, out of the bombers, the bomb aimers they were just going up there not with very much experience they would be flying in the other aircraft and when the master bomber got to the right position, as they were over the top of the German tanks, he would drop the bombs on his and everybody else would drop their bombs so they were plastering the German tanks with bombers from quite low level and it didn’t need a lot of navigation, they just followed the master bomber. So that’s why they went and left five of us to come back to England, which they want us to do that we decided that it, would be a draw, there’d be five crosses in a hat, for us to, those who got the cross would be ones that came back to England. They also found that there were three members of the, who were on the course that were married, and they were automatically going to be sent home, although they’d only got married a week before they got the troop ship to go out, so it wasn’t a lot different to us. So there were only two crosses that were going to be counted. So there were two crosses left in the hat and we just took turns to see who got the cross and I thought well, I went up first because I thought the crosses were in there. If I wait somebody else would get up so I’ll go first and if I fish about I might find it and I did, I was lucky I got a cross and one other man got a cross and that was my passport back home. So that was my, and err, I think we waited about three weeks for the ship to take us back, this time it was a Dutch ship, it was the, it was, we were just going to go back without any cover from the navy at all because it was a ship that could do twenty odd knots and we just came straight back to England. The high speed and was back home after, it took us about three weeks, just under three weeks to go back to England instead of the six weeks it took us going out. So that was my trip to South Africa.
GC: OK, tell me a little bit about station life here, where you were stationed here in England.
GR: Ah, well. Well first of all when I came back from South Africa I had to go to OTU, an operation unit, there was more training to do there and then we went to, that was in North Wales on Anglesey and from there I went to OTU which was just outside, that was at, oh I can’t remember the name of that place now, but anyway that was a conversion unit where we were doing [unclear] flying and on um, that is before we went to the conversion unit. When I got there we went on to, first of all it was ah, we didn’t go on to a Lancaster straight away, there was a another aircraft but we only did a couple of training trips on that when they decided we would go to Kirmington 166 Squadron and they were Lancasters so our conversion was actually on Lancasters. The crew, first of all, on the Abingdon was the OTU was where we actually got crewed up and after doing training and, there we went into a big hangar where pilots, navigators, bomb aimers, radio operators they were all mixed, all there with all the results of the air tests pinned up around the wall and you just wandered around looking at names and associating the information with the people and you tried to get yourself into a crew by saying to, in my case, a pilot came up to me and said ‘have you got a crew yet?’ I said ‘no’, he said ‘would you like to become a member of my crew?’ so I said ‘yes’. He’d already picked a navigator that he’d looked at the results and he was happy with and then we found ourselves a radio operator, a wireless operator so that was the four of us there and so that was the start of our crew and then we were joined by two gunners that had been told which crews they were going to. They didn’t get much choice in the matter as far as I could see but they were attached to ours. That brought us up to six of us [unclear] and then we needed a, I think, and then when we got to, later on, we got a flight engineer joined us so we then became a crew of seven on the Lancasters and we were doing our training to get used to the Lancasters, I think that lasted, [pause] a few weeks and we were then posted to 166 Squadron at Kirmington which was just outside, not far away from Grimsby. Does that answer your question?
GC: Is there a trip or a sortie that sticks in your mind?
GR: A trip?
GC: A sortie?
GR: Oh when I was ops?
GC: Yes.
GR: Ah, well there was a couple. One was when I went to Kiel and that was [pause] I think most of the trips we were doing was to take, make the Germans, put, take their aircraft away from the Russians because Russian areas was where they were having problems, as you know, towards the end of the war, ah and Kiel was well defended, there was quite a lot of flak and also crossing the coast there were guns going off there quite a lot. There were quite a few fighters about and that was where the last pocket battleship was and by the time we got there it was already burning. The bombers in front of us had dropped bombs on to it and it was blown on its side and we were going in dropping bombs as well and to make sure that that wouldn’t be any good at all. That was the last pocket battleship. That was quite a hectic night that night and when we came from there the navigator took us on a quick route out to come back home and that was about an eight hour journey altogether. So that was that one and the other one was um, I think it was, I’m not sure if it was a Nuremberg one but there was one other trip in which we got coned in searchlights. As you fly in to the target area you can see, as a bomb aimer, you’re on the nose, you can see all the flak which is coming up over the target area and it’s about err, it looks a mile thick and there’s twinkling lights all the time, the shells bursting and you can see that from at least eight minutes before you get there and you know you’ve got to fly through all that flak before you can start dropping the bombs etc and that was while we were flying through we got searchlights again, suddenly there were searchlights and we were waving about and we were coned by the master searchlight, he got on to us. Once the master gets you all the searchlights come on to you. Every searchlight that was on focussed on that aircraft and that happened to be us this time which was very scary. You can’t see it’s so, absolutely brilliant [emphasis] light and obviously the pilot was then doing the corkscrewing and so diving down and pulling out at the bottom of the dive and back up again in the opposite direction and back down again to try and get out of the searchlights. While you’re doing that the actual G Force on you was clamping you to the side of the aircraft or the floor, wherever you are, and you can’t move, you can’t even think straight. You can’t see, expecting the shells, suddenly expecting to be blown apart because once you’re coned there’s very little chance of getting out. But err, this particular time, our pilot was brilliant and he did eventually escape the coning. Took us about three or four minutes before we got back in the darkness again and breathe again and move again which was about one of the worst experiences that I had. [pause] Certainly not recommended. [pause]
GC: Tell me a little bit about life actually at the station. What was it like to see your station when you came home?
GR: [sighs] Well, [pause] you’re a bit exhausted and as we used to fly in towards Grimsby and coming in to the squadron there was Kirmington Church – had a green spire, you could see that. It was a beautiful sight when you see that as you’re coming in. You get that feeling of peace coming over you, at last you can relax and the other thing I noticed, it was the time of year, on top of the hill where we were there had been peas grown and they’d all been cleared off and bare ground sort of really and it was a mass of poppies the whole field was a mass of poppies and you could see that from miles away, see that poppy and you could see both the poppies and the green spire of Kirmington. It was a beautiful welcome back home and it was lovely I enjoyed that very much, and err, that was great. And then once we’d landed and went to debriefing um, you could then have your eggs and bacon and then you were free and you could go round to your bed. Our bed was in the woods at the bottom of the hill at Kirmington and there were about three crews in this Nissen hut. There were no facilities there, no toilets or any of that sort of thing, just a bare Nissen hut. I used to walk through the woods up to what was the, there was a big arch there on top of the hill and err, [pause] oh crikey, I can’t think of the name of the — It was an arch dedicated to the man that owned all the ground where the farmers were renting out their farms and I think he was a lord or something like that, anyway, through this arch I used to walk through and sit down on, just outside of the arch and you could look at and down to the bottom of the hill on the other side of the arch there was a big lake. I used to sit and look at the lake and think of the peace, the change. Nothing, no sound, nothing, just sit there looking into the lake and trying to get your breath back from where you’d been and it was a complete change to sit thinking. It was really marvellous sight and it lived in my mind, as it does today. I can always see that arch and the lake and the peace, yes. They were periods that I remember very much. (sound of cutlery on china)
GC: How about family, how did they go through the war? Were you married?
GR: Ah, well I got, yes, I’m just, getting confused. I was married while I was at Kirmington, yes and my wife used to come up to stay. She used to stay in the village just by the airfield and part of the time while I was doing the ops she was there while I was on the squadron and um, she came up later on and she stayed with some people in the local village and they were very good. We had a marvellous time with them. They had two children and I used to go and stay there some nights and yeah they were brilliant. In fact, when the war ended I used to go back there with my wife and we used to, went back there for years and years until he, the man finally died, ‘cos he was an older man and then we still kept in contact with the children as they grew up and err, we made a lot, quite a lot of friends in that village.
GC: How about the Lancaster? You say you flew the Lancaster. How was she as a plane, what was she like to be in?
GR: What was the first —
GC: The Lancaster, what was the Lancaster like to fly in?
GR: Oh, it was marvellous, it was the greatest aircraft I’d ever been in and err, yeah it brings tears to your eye when you even hear it today. Last year I went back to Kirmington and I visited the squadron and one or two squadrons round about and I went to Bomber Command’s Lancaster and I went to the Kirton Lin — is it, Kirton?
GC: Kirkby?
GR: Pardon?
GC: East Kirkby?
GR: East Kirkby, that’s right. They have the Lancasters there which um, I had a ride in the bomb nose round on the peri-track and I was able to go right up into the nose and I went back seventy years in my mind as we were going round in that and it was fantastic. The sounds is beautiful. I’ve got a photograph on the wall there of my visit and I was entertained real royally by the people at Kirton (sic) and yes it was great and then I went to where the [pause] the one and only Lancaster, the flying Lancaster. I went back there and I got into the nose there. They took me round the Lancaster there, it was another great experience.
GC: So, good memories?
GR: Oh yes. I was talking to the pilot and he was asking me how the Lancaster behaved when we did the, when we got caught in the [pause] hmm.
GC: Spotlight?
GR: Ahh, goes out of my mind. At ninety three it’s most difficult to remember the words but err, [long pause]. When we did the corkscrewing, that’s the word I’m trying to think of. When the aircraft does a corkscrew he wanted to know how the Lancaster stood up to it. Of course with their Lancaster they can’t do that they can only fly gently and err, with our one when we were in the corkscrew it behaved absolutely brilliantly. It took all the strain and it was, it winged and waggled about it a bit but there were no cricks or cracks or anything. It was, it was a lifesaver, it was brilliant and we had a great pilot. He’d been in Canada for two years before he came to us and he’d been training pilots and he decided he wanted some action and by the time he came back to England that’s when he managed to join in, pick his crew and that’s when I joined with him and um, it was him that saved our lives really because his piloting was fantastic and the aircraft behaved absolutely brilliant.
GC: I know air crews and ground crews were very protective of their planes. Did you ever bring one home not in one piece? Did you ever get damaged?
GR: Well, not really damaged but our crew, every time we landed they went over it and it was their [emphasis] aircraft, we only borrowed it as far as they were concerned and they really loved that and they looked at every mark. And we went back one time and we thought we had a hole blown in the side of the aircraft or something because we’d got thrown out of the sky on the way back as if we’d really been hit and I was sent by the pilot back down the plane to look for the damage and I was going very carefully ‘cos I was expecting a great big hole in the aircraft and err, I couldn’t find anything and came back and reported all seemed to be OK. When we got back to the ground crew we reported that we’d been hit, somewhere, but err, and it had been quite severe because it had taken the stick away from the pilot. He had to let go, it was taken out of his hand by the pressure. And, um, the next morning when we came back to the squadron again they said they’d been over the aircraft and there was no real damage except for a piece of shrapnel had lodged in the fins, the elevator of the aircraft and it had jammed in and it forced the elevator which was then [unclear] controls and taken the stick away from the pilot for that few seconds. It was just one bit of flak and it hit that bit of the aircraft. It was still lodged in there, they found the bit of flak as well. So that was the only time they really got close to us that we knew about.
GC: How about at the end of the war? What was your, what did you do at the end once sorties had been finished?
GR: Well when the war finished that was, the squadron formed up and they told us that the war had now ended and that the various countries like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, they wanted their men back and they were taken off the squadron that very minute. They disappeared from the group and from rest of the people were left. So my pilot went back to Canada because he’d married a Canadian girl while he was out there. The rear gunner was an Australian, he disappeared um, so our crew was broken up, and all the crews had various members of the Commonwealth who were taken away around that time and shipped off back to their home countries, which, at such a speed that we didn’t have time to say goodbye, what’s your name and address because as crews we never met their relatives or their parents or whatever. When we had leave we all went to our own families and then met back again when we came and that — we didn’t socialise apart from as a crew. So we didn’t know one another, we didn’t know where they lived, we weren’t able to contact those. The only people we were able to contact were those that were still left on the squadron, which was rather a shame. I never did hear from my pilot again or the rear gunner. When they died, if they died, I never did know, which was a real sadness to me. But then, after they’d gone what was left were then the various members of the crews, we made into other crews, we made a crew and I went with a Squadron Leader [unclear], his crew must have all been Canadians because he lost his crew completely so he had some, [unclear] crew which was myself and a radio operator and a navigator and we had some, I think we had a couple of gunners as well from somewhere else that made a proper crew and then we were sent on various missions. We did some training together to become a crew and we were sent to places like, we used to fly to Italy and we were fetching back people that had been waiting for their demob numbers to come up such as they come from North Africa into Italy and were in the war fighting in Italy and when the war finished they were just left there waiting for their demob. They never got home until they were demobbed err, unless their leave period came up and then we used to pick them up and bring them back for their leave and take them back again after the leave had finished. They were both WRNS and WAAFs and, as well as the airmen, some airmen who had been released from concentration camps, they’d come back. And so any people like that were put into the Lancasters to bring home as quickly as they could. The Lancaster had white circles painted on the floor and they were about a foot diameter and that was about all the space these people had while we brought them back. They had to stand and hold on to the side of the aircraft all packed in together so we could get as many people in as possible, except that if they were WRNS or WAAFS I think we normally did separate the ladies from the men on the trips, but I used to get, if it was WAAFS or WRNS on board I could generally get two of them in the nose lying on cushions on the way back, that was more pleasant for them and for me. The rest of them just had to sit where they could in the aircraft but err, we would only fly at about 2000 ft when we bringing a load of people back because they wouldn’t have parachutes and we didn’t have parachutes either so it was thought best that we all went without parachutes just in case of accidents and we might be able to land if we weren’t flying at too high a height. So that was our, we carried on doing that until the squadron closed down and I was posted to Kenley waiting for my demob.
GC: I think finally do you have one enduring memory, one emotion from your time?
GR: [pause] One emotion. Well my main emotion was the fact that I was really upset at the way that the squadron was split up and broken up without any thought whatsoever about comradeship that had been formed during our time and, as if, you know, it really hurt me and I think it upset most of the air crew people the way that Bomber Command was discarded for political reasons. That was my main emotion.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with George Royall
Creator
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Gemma Clapton
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-07-20
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ARoyallG150720, PRoyallG1501
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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01:02:46 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
George volunteered to be a pilot but settled for Air Observer. He talks about his selection and training in London and then in Stratford-upon-Avon, where enjoyed the theatre and how, at Brighton, illness separated him from the rest of the course. So, while they went to Canada for their flying training, he went to South Africa.
George sailed from Liverpool to Freetown, where he enjoyed seeing sailors and WAAFs in their whites, the green landscape and the locals selling their wares. He had some free time in Durban and received great hospitality from expats but felt embarrassed by apartheid. He began flying at No. 48 Air School and here his trade changed from air observer to air bomber, so he describes the navigational support role played by air bombers. He received his brevet and while 20 of his course were sent to North Africa, he and four others returned to England. George says he went to an OCU in North Wales and then describes crewing up, going onto Lancasters and being posted to 166 Squadron at RAF Kirmington.
While at Kirmington George married and his wife would come to visit, staying with a local family and making life-long friends.
George describes two memorable operations: Kiel, where he saw a Lancaster hit by falling bombs and Nuremberg, where his aircraft was coned by searchlights. He recalls how, on returning to Kirmington, the sight of the village church and a field of poppies was a beautiful welcome home and that he used to climb a hill near his billet to relax and look at the view.
At the end of the war George flew several trips on Op. DODGE and says that they flew at 2,000 feet because the passengers had no parachutes and so the aircrew did not carry them either. He also describes a visit to East Kirkby, where he was made to feel very welcome. He was asked what it was like to fly in the Lancaster and how it stood up to corkscrewing.
Sadly, George's lasting emotion of his service is of how quickly the closely-bonded crews were split up and sent back to their home countries at the war's end, often without time to exchange addresses or even say goodbye.
Spatial Coverage
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Germany
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Nuremberg
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--Abingdon
England--Lincolnshire
England--Grimsby
England--Warwickshire
England--Stratford-upon-Avon
Sierra Leone
Sierra Leone--Freetown
South Africa
South Africa--Durban
South Africa--Port Elizabeth
Wales
Wales--Anglesey
Contributor
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Andy Fitter
166 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bomb aimer
bomb struck
bombing
coping mechanism
crewing up
entertainment
fear
Gee
ground personnel
H2S
Lancaster
military ethos
military living conditions
military service conditions
navigator
Nissen hut
observer
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Abingdon
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Kirmington
searchlight
training
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/882/11709/PHorshamES1602.2.jpg
67e67ad73fa2fc212dac0e588fd3a172
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/882/11709/ASymondsHorshamE170105.2.mp3
7d055b8f4144ed6db659e469c9e75ac0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Horsham, Eric
Eric Symonds Horsham
E S Horsham
Description
An account of the resource
14 items. An oral history interview with Eric Horsham (b. 1923), 9 photographs, and his memoirs. He flew operations as a flight engineer with 102 Squadron from RAF Pocklington.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Eric Horsham and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-01-05
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Horsham, ES
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the 5th of January 2017 and I’m with Eric Horsham down in Warminster and he was a flight engineer. And he is going to talk about his experiences in life but particularly with the RAF. So, Eric what are you earliest recollections of life?
ESH: Well, every year we went off to Devon for a holiday at relations because my people came from Plymouth and Devonport and this was held good right up until my teenage years. But early memories really, I suppose began at the age of about, serious memories, seven when we heard a very strange noise on one occasion and we all rushed out to see what it was. And do you know what? It was the R101 which was on its way to London and of course guided by the River Thames because that’s where we lived. In Plumstead. So it was logical. In fact the best view from Plumstead was the Ford Motor Works which had four big white chimneys and so that was a landmark. And following on from there it wasn’t until I was [pause] well I suppose fourteen really because that’s when I left school and they said, ‘Well, there’s a couple of jobs and one is — would you like to be a messenger in the Royal Ordnance factory?’ Which was right adjacent to Plumstead at Woolwich, you see and also the headquarters of the Royal Engineers. So that’s what I did for six months because it was destined that I should take the Railway Clerical Examination and join the rest of the family working on the railway. So that’s subsequent to that they sent me to train as a booking clerk. But I didn’t show up very brightly so they said, ‘No. We’ll send you to a goods depot.’ Which was rather like being banished, you know [laughs] because, can I be humorous at this point and say, well yes I was sent to a depot call Nine Hills which was in Vauxhall near Waterloo and on one side I had the Brand’s Essence and Pickle factory churning out pickle. And looking the other way we had horses because everything was delivered, delivered by horses, and drays at that. And on the other side we had the gaslight and coke company pushing out fumes so that was my early memory on the railway and then a friend of mine said [pause] well I told the friend of mine in the railway business that I was very unhappy there. So, indeed the friend said, ‘Well, we’ll try and rectify that,’ and apparently I didn’t shine as a booking clerk either. So they sent me to the estate office of the Southern Railway which was way out in the country at Chislehurst, but I digress because previous to — I mean we, talking about the year 1937. As you’ll appreciate if I was ’23 — born ‘23. ‘33, ‘37 that’s thirteen or fourteen years and 1939 came along. We can verify those dates and we had to join anything organised. All young people. So, but I think maybe I’m a bit previous to that because I went along to the Air Defence Cadet Corps. This would be somewhere about 1937 at least. So from there of course we went on to the Air Training Corps which was very much in evidence at Woolwich because we were, had the run of the Woolwich Polytechnic, and the chief there was indeed given the rank of wing commander in the Air Training Corps. Wing Commander Halliwell. So, that’s where I first got my, sort of my aircraft experience and of course it was a very good base for workshop practice. We all started off wanting to be flight — to be aircraft fitters. Fitters and turners. And the very basic things that we did were of course in connection with Tiger Moths where you really had the history of aircraft from very early days, and we had to learn all about turn buckles and things which kept the wings in place. But of course as time went by, here we are in ’39 and we were getting heavy bombers coming in, and if you’d, you had to decide, you know, really what you wanted to do because you were going to be called up for sure. And state a preference. So of course I did. And that was to be a flight engineer. Now, as an aside to this, engineers in the Air Force — flying, got twelve shillings a day. Now, you, you know seven twelves is eighty four. That’s four pound forty a week which is not to be, not to be sniffed at. But of course we also had to join something anyway. So, off I went to, to be called up but unfortunately there was a problem because I’d had a medical earlier for call up and the doctor discovered that one leg, ankle or calf, was slightly different to the other one. And of course yes it would be so because when I was born it was in a splint up until a year, eighteen months which straightened it out but it never did quite catch up with the other leg. Anyway, they said, ‘No. You’re grade three. We don’t want you.’ So off I went back to the estate office and soldiered on. Filing I think was our main job then because the railway had a vast estate. However, ok, come twelve months I was getting pretty fed up so I went up to the local recruiting office and said, ‘You know, I’m available. And I’m partly trained as an engineer. I want to join the Air Force,’ and they said, ‘Well that’s alright. You’re in the Air Training Corps. You should be alright.’ So they sent me off to Cardington and, for a medical. Went to Henlow actually. Adjacent. Just down the road from Cardington. Saw the top brass and he said, ‘Well, jump up and down there,’ and so I did. And he said, ‘There’s nothing wrong with you, off you go.’ So back to an interview at Cardington. The very, very modern method of identifying people. You had all these puzzles in a book, and you went through the book. A hundred puzzles and things like a bit of algebra, you know. And I knew a little bit. Anyway, I got the question right and I was the only one in that class who got it. So the squadron leader who was interviewing, and he was loaded with gongs, of course to a young man I couldn’t take my eyes of these gongs. Anyway, he put me through all the paces and he had a civilian officer too, with him, in the interview. And in his room he had every kind of aircraft and I was to — aircraft recognition. So I did very well at that because we were well trained in the Air Training Corps. So off I went then back to civilian life and then a little while later got called up for Aircrew Reception Centre at Lord’s. So we had a, we were very honoured because we had to be kitted out in the Long Room which was famous as you know. We had drill on the famous turf. Now, that lasted about three weeks by which time we were fully kitted up and said, ‘Right. Off to Torquay you go.’ We thought that was jolly good because Torquay was a lovely holiday centre wasn’t it? Anyway, we did, I did eight weeks there altogether. And we learned administration and the law of the RAF and the time came when they said, well, you know, off to the squadron — no. Off to the big training centre you go. And I remember I slept the night on Bristol Temple Meads Station because that was it. We were going to St Athan in Wales. And the train service being what it was we did arrive at St Athan with two kit bags by the time we got there. And humped them all the way up to the camp which we thought rather naughty. Anyway, we went through twenty six weeks, I think it was, of training throughout every facet of aircraft construction and the essential things that one would have needed to know. Like you had to be au fait with a very complicated system of petrol tanks. Now, each wing of a Halifax had six tanks. And this had to be in flying whittled down from, so that your main petrol was in the mid-section, in tanks one and three. Funny enough on the test training board they said, ‘No, you really ought to have another think about this. Go back and think for another week.’ So, then I passed out and they put a little white flash in my cap and they gave me papers for the Number 1652 Conversion Unit which was that Marston Moor.
[Telephone ringing. Recording paused]
CB: So we’re just re-starting now with St Athan and the rest of the things that you were doing in training there.
ESH: Yes. I’ll go straight into leaving St Athan.
CB: What else did you do in St Athan? Hydraulics. What else?
ESH: Is that running?
CB: Yes.
ESH: Well, yes, you had your petrol system. You had the other power that was likely to be in aircraft which were accumulators. Now, not as you would think an electricity accumulator but this was liquid in a cylinder. Oil actually I think it was. And air was pumped in giving it a pressure and on selecting undercarriage down the accumulator would push it down. This is in the case of a Halifax which was either hydraulic or pneumatic. So the way to get services to operate was by his accumulator. But not only that of course because you did have [pause] now let me think. You had the port inner engine on a Halifax is the one that supplies power to your services and —
CB: Electrical power.
ESH: Yes. Some of it would have been electrical power.
CB: But also hydraulic.
ESH: And hydraulics had to be learned. Flaps were hydraulic. The other services control are foot and pedals by the pilot on the fin and rudder. And the elevators — well they would be hydraulic you see running a pipeline out. And flaps for instance. Fairly high pressure, well two and a half pounds I think were the standard pressure in the system but it was enough to push a big flap down against the airstream. And so electrics — you had to be au fait with the electrical services, and therefore you had to mug up on Ohm’s Law if you like in order to appreciate the power that you could get from electric motors. So, and then of course you had to know the different gauges of the stressed skin of the alclad which was a compound of the aluminium NG7. You see, the mind gets very hazy when it comes to the complete structure but you were able, by the end of six months, to walk through a mock-up of an aircraft with your eyes closed. You could have bandaged the flight engineer. He was the one who moved around and you were perfectly au fait with where the main spar came across so you could sort of jump over that. And of course the controls for your petrol were underneath the, what’s called the rest position which was a little sort of bunk for resting people. We didn’t go to sleep there actually but it was very useful. And then in the front of the aircraft of course you had the pilot with the wireless op immediately underneath him. And the navigator and the bombardier in the nose proper. So they, we were pretty well genned up by the time we left there. We could go anywhere blind folded within the air craft there and operate switches without thinking about it. So then they said, ‘Right. Here’s, here’s your ticket.’ You’re on your on your way,’ to a place called Pocklington — no. Sorry. Marston Moor. The sight of the famous battle actually was just down the road. And this was number 1652 Conversion Unit where all the crews got together as and made up as crews. Now, I hadn’t met our crew before then but we were very late. The mid-upper gunners and the flight engineers only met the crew, the other crew of four who’d come along from EFTS and their various ‘dromes where they had been instructed, to make up a crew. And it was strange because we assembled in the hall and the flight engineers and the gunners — mid-upper gunners, would be sitting in chairs and then in came the existing crews because they’d been flying Wellingtons which only required five people. And then — how do you find a pilot? They said, ‘Join up with somebody,’ so eventually, I think we were down to about two flight engineers and a chappie came along and said, ‘I need a flight engineer. You’ll be my flight engineer won’t you?’ And it turned out that he was a very very competent pilot. His name actually was, he was a Pilot Officer Francis then, who came from a village near where we are now called Stoke St Michael near Shepton Mallet. Anyway, he was quite stern. He always said that he’d seen our records but I don’t think he had. Anyway, he brought the crew along and said, ‘This is our flight engineer. Do you think he’ll be alright?’ So that was it. That was our crew. And so then we started training on the next day on circuits and bumps because this aircraft was totally new to our pilot. And while we’re on the subject of crew we had a very important chap in the crew who is of course the navigator. Now, we had actually in retrospect, having had thirty odd ops to prove himself, and we wouldn’t be here now if it hadn’t have been for Oscar Shirley, who was our navigator, because you could turn him upside down. You could have umpteen course changes. He knew exactly where he was. Because it could be very, I mean I heard of crews who had navigators that weren’t too good and that was curtains. However, we won’t dwell on that. But, and while we’re on crew our bombardier was fresh from the first few months of a teacher training course. He was called Johnny Morris but not to be confused with the comedian. And Alan Shepherd was our wireless operator. Now, Alan Shepherd came from Ringwood, off a smallholding. Wonderful chap really. Did a lot of good work after the war. Who else have we got to account for? Oh rear gunner. Yes. Rear gunner, another Londoner. I’m just desperately trying to remember his name. You wouldn’t believe it would you? [pause] I’ll remember it in a moment. We’ll come back to that. Now, who haven’t we accounted for? Mid-upper gunner. Jimmy Finney from Hull. Lovely lad who later got shot up on one operation and had to pack it in.
CB: And your bomb aimer?
ESH: Ron Alderton was the name of the rear gunner by the way. He is still with us as far as I know but when I phoned him the other day he said, ‘I’m losing my marbles. I can’t come and see you.’ So, there we were. Crew set up. And then of course we all had our bicycles with us. Off in the van and off we went to — I think we went by train from Green Hammerton to York. And then York out to Pocklington, and the station yard was just gravel in those days. And then of course we walked over to the ‘drome which was quite close. Each of us had two kit bags and a bicycle. But we knew we were going to Pocklington and it didn’t have a very savoury sort of record. In fact they said, ‘Now you’re here you’ll be lucky if you last three weeks.’ Which was a throwback from — 1943 was a desperate year and here we are in January or February was it of ’44, at the Conversion Unit. And Pocklington had, sorry not the Conversion Unit. Pocklington — the actual RAF station and there was definitely a pervading sort of sense that this was a bit dodgy, you know. However, we were led into operations in around about, just before D-Day. We’d done all our circuits and bumps and cross country’s and they let us down very gently on short trips to France. I mean the first trip we did was to a place called [unclear] which was a P-plane place. P planes were coming in thick and fast so Churchill had said to our boss Air Chief Marshall Harris, ‘Look get your lads on this. I want it stamped out.’ Because they knew the 6th of June was coming up. So we continued to do that until right through until well after D-Day. To various places which you wouldn’t be able to find on the map because they don’t give, you won’t find them as places like Foret de Dieppe. Which is unheard of, I mean, but there you are. And then we started ops didn’t we? And of course our accent was on night bombing. Can you imagine having a sheet of aluminium stood up against the wall and you gathered up in your hand and [pause] gravel? Now, you threw the gravel at the aluminium. Now that’s just what it’s like when you’re being shot. If you’re near a shot. Because all the shrapnel comes and hits the aircraft like that and that is getting just a bit too close for comfort. However, they were nights. Now, what you don’t, what you can’t see you don’t worry about do you? Even though it was seven or eight hours sometimes. Or five or six to the Ruhr. Because we were concentrating on the Ruhr. I mean Essen after we’d been there and some of the other lads had been there previously there wasn’t one brick standing on another. And that’s where Krupps the armament works were ruined, you know — finished. Because we were mainly at that time after [pause] I mean our targets were decided by the Ministry of Economic Warfare. And they said, ‘Right. Wipe out Germany’s oil and that will end the war.’ So that’s what we did. We went to all sorts of obscure places trying, in bulk, to wipe out an oil plant. Because, I mean, you’re looking at a complex in the middle of a small area of a village. Now it took a lot of aircraft to plaster it so we did a lot of this up and down the Ruhr. I mean there were so many places I won’t bore you with that. But that’s what we did. But also we went to one or two further places like Brunswick. Way across east to Berlin. And then Hanover, Soest, Osnabruck and they were very well defended. And of course the night fighters hadn’t quite been been nullified as they were a little later. So we had, I suppose a charmed existence. And one of the deadly things the Germans did was to position a gun at a fixed angle — called a shrage gun and it would come out and go straight for the port inner. Once you got the port inner — well that’s where your services came from. And there’s no way really you could put a fire out. You’d try by diving [pause] but no really we had a charmed existence I suppose. And then D-Day came along and in preparation for that the squadron was busy but we didn’t actually get over Normandy until, I think it was July the 18th 1944 when it was, there were troop concentrations around Cannes. Now, if you remember Montgomery couldn’t shift them and everyone was looking to him and saying, you know, ‘You’re going to be a failure aren’t you? You can’t. You’re army can’t do it.’ So they whistled up the Air Force east of Cannes where Tigers tanks had dug in in expectation of a bombing raid. and of course we were there 5 o’clock in the morning and it soon became obscured by dust and smoke. And really it was pretty terrible for the Germans I’m sure because they staggered out of their bunkers and that, having been bombed by I think it was a thousand aircraft. Not all at once but over a period of about half an hour. Your concentration was so great yes you could time them and of course this was, in effect, an army cooperation. We had to be very careful because the army had to lay down a yellow barrier of flares with a given margin which they decided was safe so — and I do remember on that occasion I think as we were coming — as we were going out on that raid as you’ll realise Cannes isn’t that far from England. They were coming back. So, quite amazing you know to see these aircraft coming back and you hadn’t got there. Now, this was daylight of course because they switched us from night after a time because we went on to daylight because of course if you can see something it should be, you should be more accurate. Now, we did go on right through the summer. We went to one P-plane place seven days running. Foret de Dieppe. If you can find it on the map. Because one operation was preceded by Mosquito. Now the Mosquito could — it was planned he would be on a fixed from England on the exact spot. So we were trundling away there getting towards — and the secret was when he dropped his bombs everyone else would do theirs. And of course unfortunately we got up near the target and one aircraft opened its bomb doors and dropped the bombs and of course everybody else did the same. So really that was — the idea was good but it didn’t work in practice. Whether the Air Ministry would like you to know that I don’t know. But yes, it was so. So, we were largely on P-plane bases but then we went on, as I say, to daylight. Oil installations. Because at that time it was really beginning to show that the Germans couldn’t really put enough in the field because they hadn’t got the petrol. So, mainly of course we were up at the Ruhr at places like Gelsenkirchen where there were oil installations and that more or less saw the summer out. But one operation did stand out for us and that was army cooperation with the Americans who were trying to push into the Ruhr and we hadn’t yet, they hadn’t yet done it but there were three towns. Julich, Duren and Eschweiler, and I think they are adjacent to the [pause] now what was the name of the forest?
CB: Ardennes.
ESH: The Ardennes, yes. Indeed. The Ardennes and these Germans had all their batteries concentrated in that area and they could dig in these Tiger tanks and they were very difficult. I mean they were very difficult to move. And the crews also were dug in and ready to come into action as soon as the raid had passed over. Anyway, we went through the target and on our way out and we must have wandered. At that time of course to nullify guns you dropped out metallic strip, Window, which really foxed the German radar. And they were pretty good on this radar. And we did wander around to one side on the way out. Out of radar — out of the Window cover and you could see. I was lucky I had a little dome and I could look out as a flight engineer to the rear and you could see these black dots coming up, but you didn’t know whether that one was going to follow that one but it did. And there was an almighty bang and so skipper Francis knew what that was so immediately put it into a dive. Now we were about fifteen thousand feet I think and we ended up diving and ended up at eight thousand feet hoping that the Germans wouldn’t be able to follow us down but the place was full of smoke and cordite. The smell of cordite. If you’ve opened up a firework or let it off you’ll smell cordite and that’s what, that’s what was filling up the aircraft. So you couldn’t communicate. Everyone had gone deaf so you had to wait for your hearing to come back. But being a flight engineer I was able to walk around because we were at level flight by that time. Previous to that we’d been pinned in our stations. The G-effect being such. And so the first thing I saw — the aircraft looked like a pepper pot on one side, the starboard side, and daylight was streaming out. No flaps. And unfortunately Jim Finney in the mid-upper turret was pointing to his leg and the shrapnel had gone through at the thigh which rendered him, his control of his foot etcetera to be nullified. So wireless op and bombardier got him out of the turret and laid him down in the fuselage, bandaged him up and they cut his trousers first in order to find out where the where he’s bleeding. And they did a good job on him because you know if a chap’s losing blood he’s losing life blood. So, anyway, the skipper said to navigator, ‘Give me a course for home.’ He gave him a course irrespective of what we were flying over and he pointed the nose in the right direction and off we went and we were soon back. I suppose at — oh yes it was awkward because there was a mist coming up and a fog but we were pointed towards Orfordness and the aerodrome there which had FIDO. Fog Dispersal [pause] Fog Incandescent Dispersal Organisation. So we were able to fly around once firing off all the red flares that we had so they should know down below that we hadn’t got radio, we hadn’t got brakes. But it’s a long runway and it was called [pause] There were two — one was at Carnaby further up the coast. This was Woodbridge. Straight in off the sea straight on the ‘drome. So it was getting pretty misty and it was closing in. November is a bad month isn’t it? Anyway, we got down didn’t we? And we managed to take up the full length of the runway, ended up on the grass at the end. But nevertheless we were off out of trouble. And along came, well they knew full well that this aircraft was damaged. Couldn’t talk to us. So they sent out the wagon and dear Jim was soon in hospital. And we, along with a couple, quite a few dozen others descended on the cookhouse for a supper, you know. Which we did eventually get because they didn’t expected all these people to come in 5 o’clock in the afternoon. And so what do you do? We’re down at Orfordness there in the east coast of Essex. They gave us tickets back to London and then back to York which was an excuse for everybody to spend the night in London. But I was lucky because I could get an electric train just down to Woolwich as it were and back home. We never got pulled up. None of us had hats. Well, I think, I think the skipper did because he was very particular about carrying his nice peak cap, you know. However — yeah, so we, but that’s only one of about six different aircraft that we had on the tour. Some of the numbers are in the logbook. But where we had different problems — for instance on one occasion we had a seagull in the engine nacelle which put that out of action. So of course you didn’t use that aeroplane the next day. We had so many we could have a new one every day if necessary. As I say, we had about seven. We got the undercart. That went down alright otherwise we wouldn’t be here would we? But it could be things like that which would be, could be very dodgy. And we eventually finished our tour on oil installations. Let’s see [pause] towards the end. Towards the end. Towards the [pause] October. October. Through Christmas. Probably about January or February of ‘45 and that was the end of our tour. And we had done twenty daylights and about thirteen night trips which clocked up something like four hundred, five hundred hours flying. Full stop.
CB: We’ll stop there for a —
[recording paused]
CB: So we’re just, we’re just doing a recap now which is on the damage on the aircraft.
ESH: Yes.
CB: So starting at the point of the big explosion. Then what happened and what was the effect?
ESH: Well I hope I can remember.
CB: That’s alright.
[pause]
ESH: Well we left the target area and unfortunately we may have erred to one side of the Window cover which of course blocks out their radar and nullifies their accuracy. But nevertheless they caught us up and in a flash there was an almighty bang and our hearing disappeared straight away and the skipper put it into a dive, And down we went. Down. Down. Down. Something like eight thousand feet I suppose before we levelled out and that was a relief but we were then, I was then able, as a flight engineer to move around and observe any damage and by jingo there was. Looking out the port side — the starboard side the flaps had disappeared. One important, very important thing. The whole side of the aircraft was peppered and daylight was, it was more or less a window. And our mid-upper gunner, now our hearing had come back and our visibility was quite goon— pointed to his leg and indeed he had caught, been caught by shrapnel right through his thigh from his turret. So that very shortly after our wireless operator and our bombardier came out and got him out of the turret and cut his trouser and stopped the flow of his blood. And we realised it was very urgent to get back to England because, fortunately our four engines are still turning over in spite of losing some major control of the aircraft, so on arriving at Woodbridge which was a mighty long ‘drome a mighty long runway and very wide too we had to circle. We had to tell the ground what was happening. And so there we were flying, running off red verey lights in case there were other aircraft in the circuit, but there was no issue. We did one. One circuit around the flying control and straight in to the funnel of the runway. Without — without radio we felt pretty helpless. The fog had closed in on the aerodrome now at this time but he was an A1 skipper and as I say one of his things that he was so good at was flying blind, he could fly in any condition. He got us down and we got Jimmy into the transport and away to the nearest hospital.
[pause]
CB: Was there any fire on the aircraft?
ESH: No. Fortunately we didn’t have fire. Which is a pretty terrible thing.
CB: So you had no, no hydraulics and you had no electrics. How did you get the undercarriage down?
ESH: Well, it’s heavy, it’s a very heavy undercarriage. Massive wheels on a Halifax. Six foot high nearly. If I remember rightly the hydraulics had gone which serves flaps, bomb doors, undercarriage and, actually what happened is [pause] there is another precaution because if your —
[pause]
CB: You could wind it down could you?
ESH: No. There was a precaution against it falling down which is called withdrawing the uplocks. This is a job that the flight engineer had to do. He would go down to what the rest position which is where our mid-upper gunner was. And there are two D rings. One each side protruding from the fuselage. The cable obviously comes through the back of the wing because the undercarriage would have been beneath the wing, and it was a simple system. Ok. You pulled the D ring which pulled a cable which released a sort of a gate bolt. This bolt, if you can imagine a gate bolt, held up the undercarriage. So the undercarriage would automatically fall down. So that’s obviously what the, as flight engineer, I did on approaching. We were fortunate in as much as that was all intact. I mean if the aircraft had lost its undercarriage earlier you not only would it have caused a lot more loss of fuel flying with an undercarriage down, total drag. But in this case no. The uplocks worked. Irrespective of any hydraulic system. And of course your warning lights came on here and there.
CB: Ok.
ESH: We covered that have we?
CB: You have. Yeah.
ESH: So therefore we got — we were on the ground, Jimmy’s off to hospital and we are left to go and find our supper again with another hundred bods as we used to call ourselves. The next morning we were given a pass to go back to Pocklington via London so everyone had a night in London if they couldn’t get home. We all seemed to arrive the next morning for the 10 o’clock up to King’s Cross, up to York and that was the end of that sticky situation.
CB: When you had a night in London where did you stay?
ESH: Well I was able to go back. Once we got to London I was able to go back to Plumstead to my folks, and one or two of the other crew had friends that they could call on. Or relations. In fact Skipper Francis had some relations down in Slough way. Now, Ron Alderton, the rear gunner, had Canadian friends temporary and he did a night of the rounds of whatever pubs he could find and night clubs. He had quite a roaring time. I mean we didn’t need to get a train before 11 o’clock from Kings Cross to get back to York. So, on the train back we were, you know, reminiscing. And I always remember I’d tried to write out something for the, for the skipper at the time when all our hearing had gone and it was an absolute shambles. Unfortunately, you couldn’t hear anything and I found I couldn’t even spell the word fuselage. What I should have done was “Jim hit.” Two words would have conveyed that but instead of that — in the event you do not act logically and you would find that you had difficulty in getting to grips with language. You could move about and you knew exactly what you should do but you couldn’t think it through. But we were all in the same boat weren’t we? We all lost our hearing for quite a time.
CB: So you —
ESH: But we got back. That was the thing.
CB: You experienced the initial shock. When did the secondary shock hit you and what was that like?
ESH: Well, we had a night’s sleep, as you will appreciate, in London and I suppose we were rehearsing the events in the train for five hours. But we well appreciated that we were very lucky. But I don’t think at that time that that sort of event had too much effect on a crew. We were all together weren’t we? Jimmy was unfortunate but he wasn’t killed. That would have been a terrible disaster. So therefore I think we’d already been used to five years of war. I mean I’m talking about ’39 onwards, you’ve already had four years and you became inured to stress, in effect. So although we went back over the ground again but we were as a crew, we were complete. We were very lucky.
CB: How long before jimmy rejoined you?
ESH: Jimmy, unfortunately was off to hospital in Oswestry and he was ruled out forever more as a flyer and we received then a young gentleman from Scotland called Onderson. He was very broad and I think mostly we didn’t call him Ian, I think we just called him Jock and he was quite happy with that. And he finished up something like five or six operations with us. He became one of us obviously.
[pause]
CB: Now, you were saying that you did thirty. In your tour there were thirty ops, twenty of them were daylight. How many of those were to do with the V weapons and what happened?
ESH: Well, as we said the V weapons and the P-planes. The V weapon was of course outside our control. It’s a rocket and you don’t hear it coming, you don’t know it’s left the ground even. And if you were anywhere near it then it could destroy half a dozen houses at one time. So we were mainly concentrating on P plane sites because you could flatten them. Until they put them on lorries and then of course you couldn’t find them. So, yes.
CB: So you were, you were in daylight but how easy or difficult was it to find the V1 initially and then V2 sites?
ESH: Well, I don’t think that we could ever find — the V1 for instance was secreted in the middle of a forest and certainly fighters could eventually have a go because they could see them and once we’d identified, or the Air Ministry had identified the location they knew what they were looking for on lorries. They would shoot them up but of course V2 was purely a mobile rocket. But once it was off it was off and it would perform a perambular and no one knew it had gone and no one knew it was coming. And there was just a terrible explosion and five houses could be — disappear.
CB: But the V1 sites, as you said, in forests — how effective would you say your endeavours were in dealing with those?
ESH: Well you want the truth. A question like where would you find the P- plane sites in a forest? All we had to go on really was what came back from our agents by wireless. That there was this activity in a certain place which the Air Ministry would identify, or the sight would be identified and it would be marked on our maps, as I say, as a very obscure village in Pas-de-Calais. The only thing we could do was mass bombing. In fact I don’t remember a site which wasn’t bombed on each occasion with less than three hundred aircraft. So that you hoped that within that aiming point you would destroy it. And I think we did a lot but not all.
CB: Saturation bombing.
ESH: Yes. That was the idea. Saturation bombing [pause] Stop.
CB: Ok.
[recording paused]
CB: Now, some of your endeavours at bombing these V1 sites perhaps were more effective than others. Was there one site you went to several times?
ESH: What? A V1?
CB: Yeah. In Dieppe.
ESH: Yeah. Foret de Dieppe. Did I not mention earlier?
CB: No. So, just, just cover that can you? The fact you went several times.
ESH: Oh yes indeed.
CB: Why did you go to that several times?
ESH: Yes. In order to mitigate this nuisance of the V2, V1s of which many thousands were being aimed at England at the time on a fixed track. One morning, in fact five or six mornings continuously we searched out a fixed ramp in a forest called Foret de Nieppe. Which of course is in the Pas-de-Calais, if you can find it. And it took thousands of tonnes, must have done, to obliterate that site. But it was, it wasn’t able to fire off these V1s in rapid succession because, you know the Germans were very thorough and got it to a high state of proficiency but we did concentrate for many weeks and months on finishing off these P-planes because it was aimed at civilian population.
CB: How many times did you actually see V1s flying towards Britain on your way to the target?
ESH: Well fighter pilots did of course but not, not us.
CB: You were too high up, were you, to see them?
ESH: Yes. I mean they didn’t, they came in at about two thousand feet so I can’t say I saw one. But I saw the damage and I experienced a V2 standing on Albany Park Station which was on the, what’s called the Dartford loop line. Bexley Heath, Barnehurst and down there. And I was standing on the station and this thing dropped a quarter of a mile away and I had to ask the station staff what that was. I mean, you know, I didn’t see it. If I’d have gone along I’d have seen a row of houses demolished but that. No.
CB: And what was their reaction to your question?
ESH: Who?
CB: The railway people.
ESH: Well he sort of said, ‘Where have you been?’ Because it was — this is not live is it? Well he wondered where I’d been not to know that London was being plastered with P-planes bombs. That sounded by the way like a common 6oo cc motorcycle engine.
CB: And you weren’t able to tell them what you were doing to counter this. You weren’t able to explain what you were doing, to the people in London.
ESH: No. Well they could see —
CB: Bombing.
ESH: They could see I was in uniform.
CB: Yes.
ESH: But they were so busy with their ordinary lives that I was just one of two million servicemen. It didn’t rate more highly than that.
CB: Right. Ok.
ESH: Pause?
CB: Yeah.
[recording paused]
CB: So what other events were noteworthy.
ESH: Ah well, now what comes to mind straightaway is on the way in to a target to see an actual aircraft hit. And you must remember this has got a full bomb load of what ten [pause] what had we got — five twenty thousand pounds of TNT going up as well as the fire bombs, and it’s the most horrifying experience. But I do remember that occasion when — and the skipper was quick to point out that the Germans did send up what they called Scarecrows. But I’m sure this would be more than that because the whole sky around that aircraft was just bits, black bits in the sky. Now, you see a Scarecrow couldn’t put up that much material could it? I don’t think so. I think this was a very salutary experience but you didn’t dwell on it because, well, you know, it could be happening at night time and you never knew anything about it.
CB: So we’re talking about night time now are we?
ESH: No. Night time, other than someone standing and throwing grit at your aeroplane that was the only indication you would have had that there were some shells very close by, but you see what the eye doesn’t see the heart doesn’t grieve. Although you might feel the effect of it, especially if you’d another aircraft in front of you you’d be perhaps very difficult as a pilot to maintain your position because you’re right in his slipstream. And there’s a slipstream of four engines just in front of you. I mean there were so many aircraft in the sky that it’s a wonder and in fact we lost a lot of aircraft because of collision. Indeed we did if the truth is known. No, there’s a bit of variation. We also had some trips with mine laying. Now, what happens? Mine laying. Well we had a chap from the navy came up and showed us exactly what’s going to happen because these things are quite weighty. I think they weighed about a matter of hundred weights and I think the maximum we could carry would be two. But there would be a whole squadron perhaps, or a lot of aircraft from other stations, all on the same business, and so off we went out across the North Sea and in to the Baltic. We had to pass over an island called Bornholm. Now, how far it is into the Baltic I don’t know, not very far perhaps because we were after this shipping route between Swedish oil coming down to feed the German factories. But I do remember dear old Bornholm put up some ack-ack you know [laughs] as though they could catch us with it. One little gun you know. It was a bit of humour in a not too humorous event. But that made a change from flying over the Ruhr because actually the first time I saw the Ruhr at night, well you’d never believe it. We came into the south of Ruhr and there was a bank of searchlights for the next fifty miles. Up and curving around. And, you know, when the chaps had said you’ve got to avoid searchlights I can understand because once you get pinned or —
[Mobile ring tone. Recording paused]
CB: So we’re talking about in the Ruhr and the way they would have, the place was defended.
ESH: Yes. Right.
CB: And how they were able, in the dark to track where people were going.
ESH: Well if I describe the scene.
CB: Yeah.
ESH: The first time you saw these early night trips that we did it took a bit of getting used to. And the first time I saw searchlights. Now, if you can imagine Kiel up in North Germany. Right around and come down through the rest of the Ruhr down to [pause] what town would be the south of the Ruhr?
CB: Stuttgart. Stuttgart.
ESH: Stuttgart. And Nuremberg. That is something like fifty miles isn’t it? Or more.
CB: More.
ESH: A solid ring of thousands of searchlights, it was like day. And it curved actually from the north right down. Facing England to the south. Stuttgart. Nuremberg. And even further south than that I think. A solid — banks of hundreds. And if, if you got near one they had one particular, in groups, they had one particular searchlight which was extra powerful and it used to show up blue, and, well we did get coned on one occasion. We were lucky because very often you couldn’t get out of it. There were so many and they could sort of follow your track and there was this master searchlight and everybody else was following. And what we did, we managed to get out by just diving and weaving. And I suppose we lost a few hundred feet and you had to make that up because you had a flight plan. You know, you didn’t depart from that flight plan. You just didn’t go off on your own doing your own thing. That was certain, certain tragedy that would be because you had whole squadrons of night fighters still and they were still able to fly. Although, they couldn’t do the training because they hadn’t got the petrol, so the petrol bombardment was beginning to show. I mean we’re talking now about mid-’45 aren’t we, you see? Sorry —
CB: ’44.
ESH: ’44. From ’44 to the end of ’44 it was gradually having an effect on German oil production, synthetic oil. And of course being as they were small patches they were very difficult to find. I mean, you might have one oil refinery and its ten miles from the nearest town. Now, you’ve got to be very accurate to get anything delivered to that site and — if you could get there, you know. But of course the German fighter production was going down so fast that I think we had a charmed existence from nineteen — from June ‘45 really to, or September ’45 to the end of [pause] ’44 to the end of ’44. I mean we were very busy D-Day time for the next three months, and then it sort of slackened off because you were limited to what you could do in the way of army cooperation. In fact the army didn’t want the Air Force to take full credit for having liberated Germany. So [pause] but raids were still being, operations were still being carried out by the squadron right through to mid-‘45. Or ‘til D-Day.
CB: You talked about the intensity of searchlights. What effect did that have on the air bomber’s ability to identify the target?
ESH: Well, searchlights. Yes. But you had visual and of course later in — from D-Day onwards the squadrons were equipped with H2S which was radar with the ability to show up features on the ground. To be able to distinguish between water and land. Now, if an oil refinery was situated just off a river that aiming point would certainly be able to be calculated and it left an aiming point for a whole squadron of aircraft marked by Pathfinders. You didn’t go on your own. It was, at that time, after D-Day, everything was Pathfinders and they would blaze the trail and you’d have a Master Bomber and he would come through your RT. I remember one occasion when the Main Force was given a name so it would come out rather like this. ‘Widow 1, Widow 1 to Main Force. Bomb the red TIs.’ And then a minute later, ‘Widow 1 to Main Force. Bomb the yellow TIs.’ Because of bomb creep.
CB: TI being target indicator.
ESH: Target indicator. Yes. So you had a whole spectrum of colours. Red. Green. Blue. Yellow. And they could be changed rapidly by RT from the master bomber to the main force so that he kept, you kept pace with bomb creep and you became more effective with that. In fact very effective in the end. I mean such people as Wing Commander Cheshire as he was then would be up the front there giving the, giving that RT direction.
CB: Would you like to just explain what is bomb creep? Bomb creep. What is it?
ESH: Bomb creep. Yes. What happens is that [pause] it creeps back rather than on to the target. How it happens — I suppose if you’ve got a conflagration then bombardiers could think that that was where you should be aiming. So a lot of aircraft, I mean, don’t forget there are five hundred aircraft on this job so that some of them would think that was the target. But, so the Master Bomber had to keep reminding people that it was creeping back and it shouldn’t do. He’s got to go on to his new target indicators. And he changed the colour of course. So you knew what to look for. Otherwise your bomb load was nullified.
CB: Ok.
ESH: Go on to [pause]
CB: Yeah go on. So we’ll stop there for a mo.
ESH: Yeah then —
[recording paused]
ESH: I said Cora’s mum and dad yes.
CB: Yes. On a slightly lighter note clearly as a crew you had your, and personally you had your social side. So what did the crew do, and what did you do individually?
ESH: Well, that’s what I did individually and didn’t take any part in any social activities with the crew.
CB: Right. So what did you do?
ESH: I didn’t go drinking, you see.
CB: No. So what did you do?
ESH: I spent most of my time in York.
CB: Right. And what did you find there?
ESH: This family.
CB: Right.
ESH: And I was made like a son.
CB: Were you?
ESH: So I didn’t — we all went as a family to the theatre one evening and we saw the famous lady who had just started acting. She was in, “Last of the Summer Wine.” Very famous. You chaps have got memories haven’t you?
CB: We’ll latch on to her later. So, but but the family —
ESH: I’d better jot her name down while I think of it.
CB: Ok. Yeah. So you —
ESH: Thora Hird.
CB: Yeah. So the family was in York. What did the father do?
ESH: He was invalided. He couldn’t do anything because of the start of silicosis.
CB: Right, but what was his trade?
ESH: That was — he was in charge. He had his own firm of plasterers.
CB: Right.
ESH: So I’ll go on to that. I’ll just make a quick note, Thora Hird.
CB: And they had a son and a daughter.
ESH: Yeah. Yeah. Famous restaurant in the middle of York. Still there.
CB: But you’d go to that as well would you?
ESH: Yeah. I’ve got it. Yes.
CB: Go on.
ESH: Ok.
CB: Yeah.
ESH: Live?
CB: Yes.
ESH: We were talking about the social life on the squadron. Well, as I say I think I was eighteen when I, nineteen when I arrived there, and went out into York and I met this delightful young lady called Cora. And she said, ‘Well, if I’m going out with you my people want to see you.’ So I went along and they became my mum and dad for that time. And her dad was a, had a plastering firm but he was suffering then from, I think, the start of silicosis and he couldn’t work but nevertheless they went out of their way to look after me, and of course the extra attraction was of course la belle Cora. And at that time there was a show going in York and who should be a young actress was Thora Hird. But I don’t think she remembers that herself now, bless her. She’s passed on hasn’t she? But Mr Parker’s claim to fame as a plasterer was the ceilings, for instance, in Betty’s Bar. Now Betty’s Bar is very well known in York and it’s still there. And if you go down into the basement you will find a mirror which is now cut up into three parts. And pretty well every famous flyer has got his signature on the glass having done with a diamond ring. And they’re all there. I think you’ll find Group Captain Cheshire left his mark there. And quite a lot of others passed through but they’re all on this mirror. So that’s down in the basement of Betty’s Bar. It’s worth going down to see. There’s history galore down there. So they looked after me like a mother and father, not withstanding the fact they had a son in the Middle East. With the 8th Army I think it was. But of course being really a dangerous occupation I had no business stringing this girl along. I mean I was her first boyfriend and you know the effect that has on young ladies. So, the crew were very good. They didn’t question me as to where I was spending all this time you see. Which brings us to —
CB: How you broke it off.
ESH: How we —?
CB: Broke it off.
ESH: Oh yes. I mean, we used to have, our famous perambulation was around the wall of York. And, you know it took quite a time so, and broke her heart I’m sure, but it had to finish. It would had been too traumatic otherwise. And we were then left to finish our tour which, there again was mainly oil installations. But come September of ’44 the CO called us all into the briefing room and said, ‘Now we’re all going to France tomorrow. We are bringing petrol to the army.’ The army was fighting at Eindhoven and so they said, ‘You are going to be loaded up with petrol,’ which they did. Each aircraft. Two hundred and fifty, five gallon cans stacked along the fuselage and tied in so they didn’t bounce around. Off we went to a German field which they’d laid out what’s called Sommerfield tracking to stop an aircraft or aircraft and vehicles bogging down in a puddle. So that was rather jolly. I mean there we were — flew a hundred feet all the way. And really that’s one of the nicest things to do, you know. Flying low level where we’d see haystacks with pigs on top because Jerry had pulled the plug on the dyke. Very naughty of course but you know it really devastated thousands of acres. And we had to fly over that into Brussels. Well into an area of Brussels called Melsbroek which was just a grass field. And it was very enjoyable. We landed there and fresh air and went to the village and do you know what? There were grapes growing on the trees. Oh grapes. Well, I mean who wants to leave there? Anyway, this so happens, you know that we tried to get off the next day, I’m sure it was the next day. So soon you could be accused of organising this. But we oiled up the plugs trying to get out of a big puddle and there’s no way you’re going to get out of it because what the wheels do and they’re big, they just churn a great gap, pit in the soil. So therefore that was, we were stuck there until you get a fitter out with a set of plugs to put it right, and I think all four engines were oiled up. Anyway, that meant that we had three days in Brussels. So what did we do? The first day we piled into a local tram and went into Brussels where we stayed at the Gare de Nord Hotel. And I was the only one who had any money [laughs] you know, because they said now any money you’ve got to change it. You’ve got to, sorry we had to change it for the currency that was wartime currency. And so of course our money was soon gone staying at hotels. And we went in to one, oh yes we, I must tell you a little story here. We went in to one hotel and up to the second floor and it was a night club with an amphitheatre and a stage and events, you know. Acts taking place. But on the way up the staircase in a corner there were two six foot six American sergeants and they had a lovely carton of cigarettes, a big carton. And they were presumably flogging them off. I mean if they could get another carton like that they’d make a fortune because there were no cigarettes in Europe. In fact, people would give you their gold watch for a packet of cigarettes but that — now our rear gunner being a sort of international type said, ‘No,’ we must find, he’d come from Canada on, he was trained for something else in Canada because he talked about Montreal. And he said, ‘We must see an exhibition.’ And actually it wasn’t what I fancied but anyway we didn’t get that far because there was no exhibition. So we met this old boy in the road and Ron says, ‘Exhibition?’ So, he didn’t speak French perfectly. The chap was quite happy. This old boy. ‘Come with me. Come with me.’ And off we went with this chap down the main thoroughfare and down some back entrances, back places, back roads, alleyways to a pub. And this pub was run by this aged lady who sat at the high stool and dished up what went, passed as beer. And there were us. We were all sitting around on stool, a continuous stool like in a queue. And I mean, you know, it was alright. A bit of light fare. And the skipper was there of course and he hadn’t taken his hat off that time. And in comes all th ese girls in bathing costumes. I mean, to eighteen year olds you know this is seventh heaven isn’t it? What’s next then? And they were sitting on our knees and some of them very shapely. And the skipper suddenly caught on, he said ‘Right. Here’s the gun. Out you lot.’ And we had to leave because it was a brothel wasn’t it? And he wasn’t, he wasn’t having his crew sullied by such goings on. So, that was, that was Brussels for me.
CB: So you got two black eyes and you couldn’t hear anything either.
ESH: [laughs] So. No. We had to make apologies to these young ladies and disappear. We would have liked to pass on perhaps a bar of chocolate.
CB: Of course.
ESH: But we didn’t go prepared. But it’s a pity. But Ron did — he went to a private family that night. I don’t know what the attraction was but anyway he did — no. Johnny Morris this is, ex schoolteacher. He obviously thought about it because he brought a bag of coffee back next time and made arrangements for it to be delivered to a particular curie. A priest at the local church who he had met somehow. But that’s the best we could do really. Normally you went in with your two hundred and fifty gallons. The army came up with a truck, unloaded [pause] and there we went off again. The next day with another load. So we were really kept busy bringing in something like two thousand gallons at a time for the army to use up at Eindhoven. Because they were six hundred miles from the port at that stage and just couldn’t keep going, you know. I thought I saw somebody moving out there but maybe I’m wrong.
CB: So did you carry, did you then later deliver any other kind of goods or was it only petrol?
ESH: Only petrol. But I believe later. Very soon. Our squadrons were engaged on dropping supplies to Amsterdam and it made a great impression on our Dutch friends.
CB: That was food. Operation Manna.
ESH: Yes.
CB: Yes.
ESH: We weren’t engaged on that but rather carried on with the last few trips into Europe.
CB: So when you come to the end of your tour what happened then to the crew?
ESH: Ah yes. Well, do you know on the aerodrome was an experimental department run by a squadron leader. And they, one of the problems with the Halifax was coring of the oil in the oil tank. Super cooling. And it was called coring. And every effort was being made, well funny enough in my tour I never came, never had the problem. I dare say we never flew in an icing. What you call an icing.
CB: Weather condition.
ESH: Yeah. You get icing conditions at certain heights and if you stayed in it it was very bad for the oil coolers but we managed to keep out of that. But a lot of experimental work was being done because a lot of the aircraft did — was affected. And so they, we worked for the experimental department there which was set up at Pocklington. Going on cross country’s with modified aircraft that in effect would fly through anything up to Scotland and back in the hope that we would be able to pinpoint the procedures to cure it. But unfortunately we had an aircraft, an aircraft engine go over speed for some reason so that rather folded up at that time.
CB: Which kind of engine was that?
ESH: Well, Halifax — a Bristol Hercules 100. That was the latest. But coring was a very difficult thing. So of course what was happening was that everyone was now asking us to be re-mustered. There was nothing for us to do except hang around. So —
CB: Was there an option of going on another tour?
ESH: Oh yes, that was always an option, yes indeed. But — and a lot of the chaps did but I think I was more anxious to go back to civilian life. But I was ‘Duration of Present Emergency.’ Or I was D of P E.
CB: Yeah.
ESH: And of course they were not giving out any commissions at that time. So there wouldn’t have been a lot of future in staying so I applied to be re-mustered.
CB: And what happened?
ESH: And then left Pocklington.
CB: Ok.
ESH: Being posted to whatever came up in the Air Ministry I suppose. And off we went then re-mustering at a famous station for the army in north Cornwall — north [pause] Catterick. Now, there was a little RAF station for re-mustering at Catterick in an ex-mine working. Anyway, my number came up eventually but in the meantime we were sent on indefinite leave. Now, I didn’t want to have to pay to go to the skipper’s wedding because train fare was quite expensive. But I gave his address on my 48. My seven day pass as it were. Or indefinite leave. The consequence of that will be explained a bit later.
CB: Right.
ESH: But from there I got a letter a little later being posted to the Isle of Man as an airfield controller. But it just so happened that my papers actually never got to my home. They got to the skipper’s address. Now, you can have a bit of a laugh if you’ve been in the service because this was six weeks later, or rather that was alright but it was the last seven days. I was absent without leave. But I turned up. I was on my way to the Isle of Man. Well, I got to the Isle of Man alright. Yes. And having got to the Isle of Man you got off at Douglas and, you know, looked at the local restaurant. Two eggs, steak and chips, that’s marvellous. Have some of that. So immediately dived in and had a good nosh as we used to say. And then you got a little local narrow gauge train up to the Isle of Man up to the north. Because I was going to be stationed at a little place called Jurby which was a good hopping off point for anybody going to or coming from Reykjavic. Which, I would then put three searchlights up to guide them in. But it was more disastrous from my point of view because what could the CO do? He has a chap seven days adrift. The first — I went to the guardroom and he said, ‘We’ve been looking for you. You’re seven days adrift.’ So, go up before the CO. Very nice chap. By the way first of all you have to be vetted by the station WO and he actually said, ‘Do you know I’m awfully sorry to have to do this but you’re up before the CO tomorrow.’ So, you march in, in the usual way with the, you know, left right left right left. Turn right. ‘So young man. What do you want to do? A court martial or do you want my punishment?’ ‘Well your punishment sir. Thank you.’ ‘Right. Seven days loss of pay.’ And do you know what? You can imagine the scene can’t you? Pay parade. And you announce yourself before the cashier’s table, ‘1869854 Horsham. Sir.’ And he would say, ‘Three and sixpence.’ This went on for weeks at three and six pence a week it takes quite a time to get to four pounds forty. Seven days pay you see. You can clue that if you like but its [pause] but indeed I think because we had a chap at High Wycombe and he was called Air Chief Marshall Sir Arthur Harris and of course they did think twice before they shoved the book at one of Bomber Harris’s boys. And I think I was saved by that because it’s a heinous crime in the air force to be AWOL anywhere. Anyway, we carry on from there because I enjoyed the time on the Isle of Man. Being in charge of the airfield. Not a lot went on but we did [pause] we were a home for stray aircraft and of course the station was very busy training the rest of The Empire Air Scheme for training navigators. And we would use, or they would use Ansons. So of course we had a squadron of Ansons to fulfil the contract. And of course my job, one of the jobs, mine and my crew — I had a crew by then of Scots lads that were setting up a parking area with glim lamps every day, because they were doing night flying, and these glim lights were fuelled by accumulators and shone a red light. And you had to put them in a certain order because then the aircraft on the way back knew where they were to park. And they used to get it in the neck if they ran over a glim lamp. Other than that when we wasn’t flying we were all in flying control and we used to do a shift where we had two and a half days off. They still do that in the police force apparently, here. Afternoon, next morning or night, off the next day and the next day and the following morning. So that enabled you to go and see the local sights. Peel Castle on the Isle of Man. And of course we did get busy aircraft and they would come in some awful times from Reykjavik and sometimes I was, what did they call it? Duty officer? Duty. Yeah. Duty officer. And I had to find them accommodation so I had to lay the law down. Pull rank on whoever was in charge of the blanket store so that these chaps had a night’s sleep and could get, we would — the cookhouse would provide a supper for them. That broke up your time. So, in effect, eventually they sent us back to the mainland. To top — I was stationed at Topcliffe which was an ex-Canadian station and underneath every table and ever chair was chewing gum [laughs] That’s how I remember the Canadians. But there was no flying going on which was a shame because we [pause] I was only thinking these chaps had applied for discharge and therefore I was in charge of an airfield with no aircraft. We kept the grass nice and tidy. But as I say we could go into, no, we couldn’t go in to Topcliffe for two eggs, steak and chips. It was unheard of. But what you could do is you could go to a local village called Topwith . Now, there are two brewers in Tadcaster. One is Sam Smith and one is John Smith. Now, you’ll know John Smith because his beer is everywhere but what we ought to have down here is Sam Smith’s which was thick and black. And it was as black as your coat. Black as night and it was the next best thing today to Mackesons. But you could get quite squeamish, not squeamish — quite drunk on it. So then you met up with a lot of other interesting aircrew and you absorbed their experiences, and then gradually, one by one, they disappeared. As I did one day. On the 2nd of January 1947, in the bleak midwinter. It was very bleak down south anyway and there had been a lot of snow around. One interesting side now, talking about cold. We were very cold in Pocklington so we could burn, burn bicycle tyres in the hut. But old Jim said, ‘Do you know what,’ Jim Finney that was then [pause] now wait a minute I’m wrong. Jim has already had that shrapnel in his leg. But anyway, there was another member in the crew. It must have been Alan Shepherd, the wireless op. He said, ‘I know. There’s a bottle of petrol over there.’ And somewhere someone had left a bottle of petrol. And it was a hundred octane. So he said, ‘Stick it in the stove to get it nice and warm.’ And it did. It blew the whole thing apart [laughs] Which wasn’t very clever was it? Anyway, we’ve left. We’re at Topcliffe aren’t we? And then, sooner or later, ok the 7th of January or thereabouts I found myself out on my ear having been discharged at, somewhere near Preston. And we asked for a taxi and do you know that’s the only time in my life so far that I ever have driven in a Rolls Royce. There was a very famous place near Preston. If it wasn’t Preston it was Southport where there was a big demob place. Anyway, that’s where we ended up, in a taxi going to Preston Station. And home on indefinite leave still. Well, no a fortnight wasn’t it then? Fourteen days and that was it finished. Now, the thing is then going back to the old firm. Now, I found myself in the railway estate office before long but they didn’t really want me I don’t think. They said, ‘You can go up to Victoria Station and go to the archives.’ Temporarily. So that was a fill-in job. Going back through papers going back to 1900 where people had to pay for a sort of fly privilege to bring a pony and trap on to the station property and they had to enter into an agreement. Time goes by awfully quickly doesn’t it when you’re demobbed? So I stuck with the estates office for [pause] until 1957. And I didn’t seem to be going anywhere much so I went out into the big bad commercial world. And went to a builder’s merchants called Roberts Adlard who were quite famous in the southern counties. Their headquarters were Southampton. I had this friend of mine who was a rep and that’s how I got there. But, and mind you I’d left London so it was a big change to go to work in Rochester Cathedral, Rochester, the ancient town on the Medway. Rochester Cathedral. Yes. And this builder’s merchants wasn’t going anywhere so Horsham said to himself, ‘Look. Hadn’t you better find a job with a pension?’ So I had experience in the estate office which was very similar to the housing department of Rochester City Council. And applied and got the job as a rent collector of all things. Going around collecting. They had five thousand houses all broken up in to thirty different schemes or so. So that enabled a transition from that to a more permanent sphere. And of course the only way you can get up the scale in local government is either by passing a lot of examinations or becoming a professional man, like, I don’t know, an accountant which is a good solid five years work. But no there we were at Rochester with several other ex-service people especially from the navy, being next to Chatham. And so we said, you know, ‘What about a rise?’ They said, ‘Oh no. No. No. We can’t give you that but if you take a certain examination there will be money in it for you.’ So the one I took was the simple one. It was the clerical division of local government. That is talking about local and central government. Writing an essay etcetera. And after six months we took the exam and we all passed. So we thought go and see the governor again now. A different kind of governor. And for passing the examination I think — I was paid five ninety in those days. So he said, ‘Yes. Well, you can go up to five ninety five.’ A five pound a year increase. So we’ve got to do better than this. So you had lists of jobs you see, circulated. And the next port of call was Maidstone Borough Council as a senior rentable assistant in charge of five rent collectors and proving the books every weekend. Now Rochester City was a purely written system. Now I got to Maidstone and it was all done by a machine called a Powers - Samas punch card accounting. And a dreadful business because my collectors used to go out with a run off. The rent for various properties. And they would put X Y Z here and they wouldn’t put anything on their sheet. So, immediately you were what –? Two pound fifty out. I used to be there at half past nine, 10 o’clock at night on a Friday balancing the books because you had, in effect, over thirty different schemes so you had to sit down and balance these schemes to find out where the error was. Which was good training wasn’t it?
CB: Amazing. Yes.
ESH: I remember the deputy who we worked under. You never saw the treasurer. He was the high and mighty. The holy of holies. But I saw the treasurer on one occasion. He said, ‘Horsham,’ he said, ‘How is it that you spent all this overtime?’ Four hours on a Friday night, you know. I said, ‘Well you know. The chaps put one thing on the sheet and then put another in the book.’ He said, ‘Horsham you really should consider the propriety of asking for overtime.’ It’s not much of a thing to a chap who’s just put four hours extra sweating his guts out. Anyway, that’s another aside isn’t it? Next thing is of course to get promotion isn’t it? And where did I go from there? Yes. I applied for a job in the County Council’s office, in the planning department. Which is where I ended up in 1978. Yeah. 1978. And then took a sort of early retirement.
CB: How old? How old were you when you took early retirement?
ESH: In ‘78. I was born in 1923.
CB: Oh right.
ESH: ’23.
CB: Fifty five.
ESH: Just short of sixty. Oh there’s a bit more to come isn’t there?
CB: Go on then.
ESH: Yeah. Well then [pause] I go back, to retrack a little bit. Going back to my days at Maidstone Borough. Wasn’t getting much anywhere and a friend of mine, who lived adjacent to us said, ‘Why don’t you come into the poultry business with me?’ He said, ‘We could then step the production.’ Because he was, he was managing single handed two thousand layers. So we promptly put some new housing up and I put all my wealth into it and we ended up with eight thousand head of poultry. Not quite as big as JB Eastwood who came along and said, ‘Look you chaps. I don’t care, I’ve got millions of birds. And I don’t care if I only get a farthing a head. I shall still make a profit.’ Which was quite true but it was disastrous for us because we couldn’t compete with that although we did very well. I mean we had a neighbour a few miles away and he was able to keep five thousand which was less than we had. And he could work in the mornings and take all the afternoons off and play golf. That’s what he did. We thought that’s a good idea. But we were saddled with our eight thousand and with fowl pest in the offing if we didn’t look after it then we’d be sunk. Nobody else was going to look after it. So you put in a fairly, a fairly full day. Eight till five minimum. But it was very good experience because it sort of taught me that come what may I could always get a job because you’ve got some skills. Especially you’d be very valuable to a poultry farmer if you could go in and say, ‘I can go in and look after ten thousand.’ He’d say, ‘Well, you know, I’m like Mr JB Eastwood. I’ve got millions.’ But nevertheless it was the same principal. So we didn’t make a fortune but we didn’t lose our shirt. I say we being collective. And then what did I do next? Well, I went back to the old firm didn’t I? Back to local government. Into the planning department this time, of the County Council. And my draughtsmanship experience came in very handy because we dealt with maps all day long. And so in 1974 I got the most marvellous job because the ministries were all on to local governments and County Councils to find out how many, what land have you got. You don’t even know what you’ve got to build houses on. And he said, ‘Well Horsham. The job’s yours. And we will depict it on a twenty five hundred scale ordnance survey sheets,’ which was a bit better than what you get on your deeds, you know. You could even show a rainwater pipe on a twenty five hundred scale. And Kent had forty seven, forty eight District Councils which I had to visit one after the other because if you didn’t carry the local authority with you you’d be sunk. They hated County Council. And they hated them because they put extra on their rates didn’t they? So that was a very enjoyable job. So thirty nine, forty, forty one, forty two [pause] No. What do I say? 1974 — 5 — 6 — 7 - 8. It took four years to do but at the end of the time we could show in the planning department that we had fifty two thousand units of accommodation each housing three people. That was your capacity then but of course a lot of it was land that you wouldn’t want to release straight away. I mean there was something like fifteen, twenty acres at Folkestone on the golf course. I know because I lived looking over these lovely green fields but you couldn’t release it all at once but that was my job.
CB: And you enjoyed it.
ESH: I enjoyed that. I never — it’s a time when I was glad to go to work because it was so, it was my job and it was interesting and I had to fulfil this promise made to the governor that it would be finished in a certain time, you know. And then we, we retired officially.
CB: When?
ESH: In 1978. 1978. Yes. Yes and went off to live in Cornwall for seven years. Froze the pension which was the thing to do. So I froze mine for another eight years so I had to go and get a job to keep the wolf from the door.
CB: Yeah.
ESH: Which I did. In Cornwall.
CB: Doing what?
ESH: Well, I saw an advert in the paper to the effect that, “Handyman wanted,” and they gave the telephone number and it turned to be at what was the Ritz Cinema which is now a bingo hall. And the idea was that I was going to look after all the maintenance. Well, it was rather nice to do something different if you’ve done the other jobs for forty years, you know. So I did that for two or three years. The firm was called Mecca. You’ll know Mecca. They’ve got them everywhere of course. All your Ritz cinemas now have gone to bingo halls. I had to do many things. Change all the lights and there was a lot of lighting. Also you had an emergency system on what was it? Ten volt accumulators which you had to cut in if your mains failed you had your own generator as well. So you had that system and you had emergency lighting if all else failed. So I enjoyed that job really.
CB: ‘Til when?
ESH: About three years later. Right up until about 1981. In that time my and a crew of two or three lads we painted the whole of the inside of the cinema including the ceiling. Which pleased the powers that be because they said, ‘Well done Horsham. We will send you to Tenerife for a fortnight for you to recover,’ [laughs] So that was something that came out of the blue. Yes. You see every year they have competitions and whoever wins the competition probably wins a place to summer holiday. And this time it was Tenerife. So there were about a hundred of us went off to Tenerife. All found, you know. Very nice indeed. Now, you wouldn’t get bonuses like that in local government of course. Since then I haven’t done much of anything have I?
CB: Throughout this time you were —
ESH: Hmmn?
CB: Throughout this time you were supported by this lovely lady. Ellen.
ESH: Yes.
CB: Where did you meet her?
ESH: I met her the first day I went to work for the railway. She was going on the same train. There is a station south of London called New Cross. So that people from further down went up to New Cross on the train and then down to where the estate office was evacuated. It was at Chislehurst. Now there was a big house at Chislehurst called [Sidcup?]. And it was on an elevated position and there’s the railway coming up and there’s the tunnel. Elmstead Woods Tunnel. So that’s, I met her in the train and she was busy there with her needles and you know sticking her little fingers stuck up like that click click click. And so that’s how it started. Her and her friend actually. Her friend was called Winnie Glover and I suppose she thought, ‘Well, she’s done alright for herself,’ [laughs] And that’s, we’ve been going ever since.
CB: When did you marry?
ESH: 25th of May 1946.
CB: And how many children have you had?
ESH: Two girls.
CB: So one’s called Gillian.
ESH: One’s Gillian. Yes.
CB: Yeah.
ESH: And she trained and became a teacher and married a headmaster. And then she went, they went off to Hong Kong and taught for seven years. And now she lives in an old mill on the Vienne River just outside Chauvigny. Whereas Alison trained as a nurse here and she trained in Weymouth and Dorchester and then went on to the hospital at Warminster. Hence the reason that we’ve came somewhere near her in old age.
CB: And she married a —
ESH: She married a —
CB: A doctor?
ESH: A sergeant in the MOD police. A young sergeant who is now or rather shocking really some year ago he went in one Monday morning and they said, and he has twenty five years’ experience as a policeman and by that time as I say, he was a sergeant. No. She didn’t marry a sergeant then but he became a sergeant. And they said, ‘We don’t want you anymore.’ Made him redundant, just like that. So, but funnily enough he still works as an instructor for the police. Driver. He trains their drivers and that’s what he’s doing today. Alison’s just finishing up her last eighteen months as a nurse.
CB: Well I think many many thanks, Eric.
ESH: Pardon?
CB: Many thanks, Eric for two and a half hours of interview. And absolutely fascinating.
ESH: Well it’s one man’s experience isn’t it?
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Eric Horsham
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-01-05
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ASymondsHorshamE170105, PHorshamES1602
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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02:07:40 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Eric Horsham was born in East London in 1923. Leaving school at 14 he was a messenger at the Royal Ordnance Factory before working for the railways. In 1937 he joined the Air Training Corps and learned about aircraft maintenance. On his first attempt to join the Royal Air Force he failed the medical but a year later was accepted for flight engineer training.
Eric describes his basic training in London and Torbay then recollects his technical training at RAF St. Athan. He then went to 1652 Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Marston Moor and joined his Halifax crew. In 1944 they were posted to 102 Squadron at RAF Pocklington where there were told that they wouldn't last three weeks.
Eric and his crew carried out a vast range of strategic bombings including daylight operations on V-1 sites, night operations on The Ruhr and Essen, night and daylight operations to oil targets, minelaying in the Baltic. They also provided tactical support in support of Allied troops near Caen and in the Ardennes, where they were badly damaged by a fighter and the mid-upper gunner received serious injuries. After landing at RAF Woodbridge in fog using FIDO he was hospitalised and did not fly again. The crew also supplied petrol to troops in Belgium, enjoying the low-level flying on these trips
Eric describes the sound of shrapnel hitting the aircraft, recalls a bomber exploding in flight, but dismisses the Scarecrow theory. He describes the use of Schräge Musik against the bombers; how search lights in the Ruhr operated, the use of H2S and how the master bomber controlled the rest of the formation.
At the end of his tour Eric remustered and was posted at RAF Jurby as airfield controller. From there he went to RAF Topcliffe and was demobbed in January 1947. Eric went back to the railways for ten years before working in local government. He retired in 1978, moving to Cornwall. While at RAF Pocklington he dated Cora noting that her parents made feel like a son. But he then ended the relationship because, with his own life in such jeopardy, he thought it was unfair on her. After the war he married Ellen, who he had met when starting his first job with the railways.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Andy Fitter
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
England--Bedfordshire
England--Devon
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
Great Britain Miscellaneous Island Dependencies--Isle of Man
Wales
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
France
France--Ardennes
France--Caen
France--Pas-de-Calais
France--Nieppe Forest
Germany
Germany--Essen
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Atlantic Ocean
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Denmark
Denmark--Bornholm
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1923
1937
1939
1940
1944-01
1944-02
1944-07-25
1944-09
1945
1946-05-25
1947-01-02
1957
1974
1975
1976
1977
1978
1981
102 Squadron
1652 HCU
Absent Without Leave
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bomb aimer
bombing
crewing up
demobilisation
FIDO
flight engineer
forced landing
H2S
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
love and romance
Master Bomber
military living conditions
mine laying
Mosquito
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Pathfinders
pilot
radar
RAF Pocklington
RAF St Athan
RAF Topcliffe
RAF Woodbridge
recruitment
runway
searchlight
tactical support for Normandy troops
target indicator
training
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
Window
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/184/2409/PSandersDS1606.1.jpg
bcbc31c9af960e94130f17aa9a184b7b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/184/2409/ASandersDS160305.2.mp3
a759a084fadbc2e92b6a1749462ccfd5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sanders, David
D S Sanders
Description
An account of the resource
19 items. The collection contains an oral history interview with Sergeant David Stuart Sanders (1925 - 2022, 1869292 Royal Air Force), his logbook, engineering documentation, operation schedules, a personal record of all his operations, a Dalton computer, a number of target and reconnaissance photographs. David Saunders was a flight engineer on 619 Squadron and 189 Squadron at RAF Strubby and RAF Fulbeck in 1944-45.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Sanders and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Sanders, DS
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GC: Right. So. This is an interview being conducted on behalf of International Bomber Command. My name is Gemma Clapton. I’m here at the home of David Sanders on the 5th of March 2016. He was a flight engineer in 189 and 619 Squadrons. We’ll begin with something nice and gentle. Tell me about how you joined up for the war for Bomber Command?
DS: Well it’s very difficult because my brother was in the Air Force and I didn’t particular want to go in the army so I volunteered not knowing exactly which part of the aircraft I wanted to be in, but as I was in engineering before as a youngster I decided to go as a flight engineer . So I went to Cardigan and they did an exercise and interviews and I had to file a cube to go into a square [unclear]. I did it perfectly so they said go back home and a few months later I got accepted as a flight engineer. Um, my first thing, my dad took me to Lord’s Cricket Ground for six months, sorry six weeks, as an introducing and being uniformed and have inoculations and all these things there. And we had to march every day to the zoo for our food. [laughs] Anyway – that ok?
GC: OK. Um, where was you stationed first? What’s your first memory of life of Bomber Command itself?
DS: Of Bomber Command? Well ‘cause this came a lot later ‘cause I had a six months course in St Athan. Learning the inside and out of the Lancaster Bomber. Um, so my first actually meeting the crew was at, I can’t remember the name of the place now, but the, the rest of the crew were already joined up and I was the odd man out. So my skipper came and I joined up to the crew, that’s my first thing and we flew into Stirlings aircraft and that was on operations, I forget what they call me. You kept — just a minute, I can’t remember the name of the places now and we were there for several months and flying and then we converted on then to Lancasters. Did training and eventually we went to a squadron. OK.
GC: Can you remember the first time you was inside a Lancaster? First op in a Lancaster?
DS: Oh the first op was quite traumatic because obviously we were all nervous, ‘cause being our first one, even though the pilot’s already done as a spare introducing. Anyway we went to Blenheim [?] and the only fault ever the navigator made he got us too early there and the rest of the time he was perfect. So we had to hang around being fired at which we never experienced before in our lives. After we’d dropped our bombs, on the way out we were combed by searchlights for about seven minutes and we thought we’d never get out of it ‘cause you’re a sitting target. But fortunately the pilot, he was a wonderful Australian, a lot older than us, a lot of experience of flying, just pulled back the throttles and we fell out the sky and we lost them. So we managed to get home and that was our first [laughs] experience.
GC: OK. Tell me a bit about the crew, ‘cause you obviously had an Australian?
DS: Well the pilot, Australian from Sidney, he was in his thirties so we, we treated him as our dad. He looked after us very well. The two gunners were wonderful Canadians, my age. The navigator was more — a little bit older. He was from Nova Scotia in Canada. A little bit snootier him [laughs] but the wireless operator [unclear] came from somewhere Middle East. Unfortunately he was shot down in another plane later. My mate Matt and I were both Londoners.
GC: So you had a real mixed crew?
DS: Very mixed crew, yes.
GC: Did – What was, what was the camaraderie like?
DS: Great, yes, yes we would — generally we used to go out and have drinks together. Perhaps the pilot was a little bit more aloof than us ‘cause we were much younger. [laughs]
GC: OK let’s take this somewhere else. You were obviously quite close to the rest of the crew. Can you describe a bit about life on the station?
DS: Um.
GC: As, as a group.
DS: Yes. Well ‘cause we were, we were in Nissen huts so it was quite, quite funny really ‘cause the Canadians, if you’re from the East or the West they used to fight each other so you had to put the fighters [unclear] up by the door in case we get raided. There was always, always friendly friction between, between people. In each Nissen hut there were two crews. So you had a funny old fire and we had to try and keep warm by putting in anything we could find to keep it — to keep us warm. [laughs] It was quite fun really, you know.
GC: It, it sounds good. OK. So can you, can you — is there a raid or op that sticks out in your memory for a various reason?
DS: Um, oh yes ‘cause most of them. There was an instance possibly in every one. I did say, the — when we went to Dortmund Canal, Heinbeck [?]. We’d go there every three months ‘cause they’d build it up and we’d knock it down again for them. It’s a viaduct. And we lost seven aircraft that time. But on the way back over England we were all relaxed thinking it was good we were getting home. Then we saw an aircraft go down, we thought the poor chappie didn’t make it. And later another one came down. And we had to log them each time. When we got to our aerodrome the perimeter lights were out so we asked them to put them on. They put them on. We landed straight down and we went to the end of the runway and went through our perimeter at the end of the runway. The [unclear] was in the truck ready to pick us up when a Messerschmitt came down the runway firing bullets all the way down. Jokingly the mid-upper Canadian [laughs] he [unclear] in his arms and said ‘it was worth every minute of that’. That night we lost about twenty something aircraft ‘cause we didn’t know the fighters were in, coming in with us.
GC: Was it common for the fighters to follow the planes?
DS: Sorry.
GC: Was it common for the fighters to follow –
DS: No.
GC: Follow home?
DS: No, no it was practically unknown and we weren’t warned ‘cause we had in the aircraft friendly and foe, and you press that and on the radar it would, it would tell whether you’re friendly or not and so they should have seen these coming but they didn’t and they didn’t warn us.
GC: And it wasn’t common?
DS: No.
GC: No. When you was on an op what was more unnerving the, the lights going up or knowing that there was possibly fighters up there with you? Was there a –
DS: Oh no, it’s, it’s very mixed. Another bad raid we had. This time I wasn’t with my crew, I was just spare and I had to go and do this crew. I’d been to Harburg before and Harburg was rather flak. Harburg, which is very near Hamburg. When we went there and bombed there wasn’t any flak and we couldn’t understand it, but when we came out we could see air to air fly, firing going on and as we – all of a sudden our aircraft lit up by an aircraft put a flare beside us. Behind that a fighter came in and fired on us so we had to corkscrew right away. The [unclear] bullets were flying everywhere and the two gunners, very experienced, shot him down. Hurray [emphasis]. And later another aircraft came in we started to corkscrew but he disappeared. We got home safely. The two gunners were awarded DFNs.
GC: Oh wow.
DS: Um.
GC: So, is there, was there a difference in attitudes towards a daytime op and a night-time op?
DS: Um.
GC: Was there a difference?
DS: Well they’re totally different really ‘cause the Americans generally did the daylights and we always did the nights. I went on one daylight. A thousand-bomber raid and you don’t believe what a sight. Everywhere you see is aircraft and when you got to the target you had to look up. You see aircraft are probably opening their bomb doors [laughs] and [unclear] get out of the way skip, you know, but generally speaking apparently all my raids were at night. And, er, you’re individuals. Your navigator is on his own. Do you like one?
GC: No.
DS: OK.
GC: Do you – I’m, I’m reading here your list and it said at one stage you, you went up to Bergen.
DS: Bergen, yes.
GC: Bergen. Would you like to tell us a bit about that please?
DS: It was more or less straight forward, no problems just a bit of flak and not difficult at all. The longest raids I did was Munich into Poland, I can’t think of the names in Poland. Oh Politzs [?] and that thing — they were very long raid. Took us about ten hours and standing in the dark all that time. It’s – your eyes start to play tricks on you. You’ve got to look out all the time. So long raids were very fatiguing.
GC: So if you are doing raids say of nine hours plus. I know going out you’re going to be concentrating. How do you keep your mind sharp to concentrate for that amount of time?
DS: Well you used to take wakey wakey pills. You had little pills to keep you awake [laughs]. But I don’t know it’s very difficult because then you get – your life is at stake so you had to keep, you know keep on, keep on watch. My job being a flight engineer I had to look out a lot to – apart from looking after the engines and everything I had keep doing – and your eyes did play tricks with you sometimes looking out in the dark for so long.
GC: So I take it from that you didn’t have something to focus on it was all done by maps and –
DS: Sorry I missed that.
GC: As I say it was all done by maps rather than what we would class as modern technology?
DS: Oh Yes. Well he had – the navigator had Oboe and other radar type of improvements. Though it was up to the navigator completely. I mean the pilot was the great, he was the chauffeur, but the navigator was very important if he didn’t get us to the proper place at the right time we were in trouble.
GC: Right OK. Is there anything that sticks in your mind from serving in Bomber Command? Any incident or –
DS: Well you see. I learnt to talk about the flight engineer job he was the jack of all trades. I had, once or twice, I had when the trimming – when you trim the aircraft you had a wheel to turn and it wouldn’t, it stuck so I had to go out and put my oxygen thing. Go round the aircraft to try to see what the problem was and the wires had slipped under the little wheels, so I had to correct that for the skipper ‘cause he can’t fly with that keep trimming his aircraft. Odd jobs like that the flight engineer had. We lost an engine one time therefore balancing the fuel was very tricky. I had to switch over and the flight engineer – if one of the gunners was injured or something it was my job to get up and take over so I learnt a lot about being a gunner. So it was rather a different job. And in take off I was the pilot’s third hand in take off and we had quite a thing between the two of us and know how to take the aircraft off. So it was quite an interesting job.
GC: What was it actually like inside a Lancaster though?
DS: Well being tall, six foot odd, I had difficulty getting in the aircraft because there was a part going right across the aircraft where they hold the wings together I had to climb over. So it was very restricted. It’s much smaller inside than you think it is and I had a little portable seat to sit so I could lift it up so the bomber, bomb men could get by and get underneath. So [laughs] it was a – not the most comfortable of places.
GC: OK. I’m going to take a [unclear]
DS: Yeah.
GC: OK. Tell me a bit about the actual training for Bomber Command if you would please?
DS: Yeah. One of the interesting things was that when you fly, when you got above ten-thousand feet you had to put your oxygen mask on and to prove that it was necessary in training we went into a decompression chamber. There was a whole crew we was all in there all sitting round all happy and joking then they said would you write down this poem. So we was writing the thing, we was writing it down and then we had to take our masks off then went down – I was still writing and I just went out. Then after they put us back onto our masks and I looked and I found that after the poem was just a scribble. The other thing he asked me he says ‘what’s the time now?’ I looked at my wrist, my watch has gone. So it just shows you that you’re oblivious once you have lack of oxygen when you go to, as we had to go, up to eighteen-thousand feet.
GC: You said, you said earlier that you had an engineering background. How did they train you? What part did they train you for? I know you were a flight engineer.
DS: Well –
GC: Just want to try and find out a bit about your training.
DS: Well as it happens every fortnight we did a different part of the aircraft and had exam on each one so you could pass onto the next one. So we did the whole – the frame, the engines, the hydraulics, the pneumatics, gunnery, bombing. We did the whole lot over six months. Every, every – it was very, very –
GC: Intense?
DS: What’s the word? Very, very – what’s the word? [laughs] Very, very, um —
GC: Intense? Intense?
DS: Intensitive that’s it yes. Anyway that’s — so at the end you had to pass another, another examination completely. I had a moaning [?] engine in front of me and they asked questions one after the other about that particular engine. I just scraped through. [laughs] OK.
GC: Um. We was talking earlier as well also about your uniform about the boots and things. Was — How was —What was it like putting that on? What —
DS: I think it was no problem really. I think we got so used to it and quite pleased to put it on knowing it was going to warm us up a bit. No I think it was quite easy. I think we got quite used to it. We did it so many times. We had big boots and we had a flight engineer I used to stick something in there just in case I needed it and also I had to carry the thermos for a skipper for when he wanted a drink. [chuckles]
GC: OK. Tell me about one of the ops when —
DS: One of the most vivid things I can remember was going to Brunswick. It was an incendiary raid. Very old town and terribly on fire. When we was going to a bombing raid there was another aircraft right beside us coming in with us. And all of a sudden he was hit and a huge [emphasis] great flame came up and he held us for a little while and then went down. That could’ve been us, we were right beside him.
GC: Did your brain work like that? Did you just accept it or —
DS: Well you had to. You had to go on. Do a bombs. And after you’d dropped your bombs you had to hold, I think for about forty seconds to take a photograph. You dropped a flare and you had to wait until that photograph was taken. And another bit of a funny thing with the photographs because my second raid was on Wolfen Island off Holland. We had to go to the island to breach the fence and when we took off we couldn’t find the group we was in so we rushed over to one to try to find it. It was the wrong group. We keep doing this and all of a sudden the bomber with me said ‘Your targets coming up. Quickly!’ So we lined up, dropped our bombs, came back home. Easy raid only two and a half hours but the next day the pilot and the navigator were up to see the CO. We’d bombed the wrong island. [laughs] So it was a — we’d bombed the — [laughs]
GC: Did they make you go back?
DS: No. Well actually we did it another, another time but they were in trouble. But it’s only because we couldn’t find who we were meant to be flying with. [laughs]
GC: Did you bomb mainly Germany or were you —
DS: No, we, we — Germany, Poland, Norway. Mainly those three.
GC: OK. I’m just going to introduce that there is a third person now in the room and it’s, it’s David’s wife, it’s Daphne. So if you hear a third voice it’s Daphne. So my apologies.
DS: One raid, I tell you is — how clever the Germans were. We went to Munich which is a very long raid. We had to go down South and across Switzerland but on the way we suddenly saw an aircraft on fire and it all of sudden you saw a big explosion on the ground, but we sussed out that when the aircraft was hit it wasn’t moving. So the Germans are very crafty and trying to scare especially the new, the new, new, the ones on their first and second raids. Thinking that they — but they, they shot over a flare up in the air that looked like an aircraft. Then did an explosion on the ground thinking that’s them. It’s very very clever how they tried to trick you.
GC: I know we have spoken about, like you said, the thousand-bomber raids. What was it like being surrounded by all those planes?
DS: You don’t believe it. ‘Cause today if two aircraft go anywhere near each other they’re in trouble. There was a thousand and they were all putting out window. That’s a big strip of things — to try and, to confuse the German’s radar. And everywhere you could see there was aircraft. In fact you know you had to keep your eyes open and tell the skip to watch out, go higher, go lower. Watch out the bombs are dropping in front of you. They were everywhere. [laughs] Anyway it was a very easy raid, there was, I think, only one or two aircraft lost most probably by other, you know, own aircraft. But you can’t believe watching everywhere you see there are so many aircraft in the air.
GC: What kind of bombs did you carry? Weaponry?
DS: Well they varied. The big cookie. Funnily enough once it didn’t release properly and it was rocking about in the bomb doors so the skipper had to open up and waggle the aircraft about tremendously to release it. [laughs] and it did go but sometimes we had incendiaries for fire. Yeah it was varied but generally it was a cookie and a few smaller ones either side of it.
GC: Can you describe a cookie for us?
DS: Sorry.
GC: Can you describe the cookie for us?
DS: Well it was like a big barrel, a huge great bomb, er, nothing like the ones you have on the 617 Squadron. They had, they had huge great things, but it was quite a big one. I forget the weight of it now.
GC: Good.
DS: Quite a big one.
GC: So it was just the one you carried at any one time?
DS: We carried the cookie and we had about six either side of the smaller bombs. [pause and whispering]
GC: Right, tell me about — you was describing to me the take off for a Lancaster please?
DS: Yeah OK. This is the flight engineer’s job on take off. So we taxied round to the runway. Lined up the runway and waited for the red light to come up, or the green light, I forget what, to start. So then we keep the brakes on and the skipper puts the throttles right up, half way up to get big power. Then suddenly releases the brakes so we go off. As the pilot is pushing the throttles my hand is behind him. Then he takes his hand away. Then I take over the throttles and I push them up to what we call the gate. I hold it there. As we go down the runway he says ‘full power’. Then I push it right through the gate and lock it. We can only hold that for a few minutes because it will blow up the engines. So now we manage to take off, so then I throttle back and lock it there. Then the skipper says ‘wheels up’. So I pull the wheels up, then he asks for flaps up by a third. I put them up a little bit then I pull the flaps up. Then we should be full take off then, so now we can just throttle back to the speed we need what the navigator has taken. That’s my initial job on take off.
GC: OK. Thank you very much. You often hear referred to in rides — you often hear referred to the phrase of a corkscrew. Can you describe a corkscrew for us please?
DS: Yes. A corkscrew is a — on the radar I said before when one of the enemy aircraft lit us up and the other fighter came in on the blind side the gunner said ‘corkscrew’. So we go down, fly down, very very fast. Then pull the aircraft up into like a corkscrew, going through the sky like a corkscrew. We’d done this many times on practice so the gunners know exactly where to put their guns. The enemy has got to keep resetting his aircraft to fire upon us, so fortunately this time it worked and we shot him down. But it’s, it’s very dramatic in a sense because one minute your, your blood is pouring down your face, next minute you’re lifted up as if you’ve gone into the sky. So it’s quite a dramatical thing to do really.
GC: Thank you. We was talking earlier as well about superstitions. Did you have any lucky charms or —
DS: Well I had a threepenny bit sewed in behind my wings. And I had a funny little thing that had a little beer barrel on and you tried to pull it and it would come down and you release it and it would go back again. So as I got in the aircraft I always gave it a pull.
GC: You was also talking about you had a dog, well the squadron had a dog.
DS: It was a stray dog which we, we looked after. A big black dog. And when we went into town on our bicycles he used to come along beside us. But as we speeded up a bit he didn’t like it so he rushed in front of us and grabbed hold of our wheels to stop us. So, and also on the way we got a piece of wood and we used to throw it in the field. And on the way back we’d tell the dog ‘go and fetch it’ and believe it or not he’d find that piece of wood we’d thrown in, you know. It’s a great dog. And a stray one. [laughs]
GC: You don’t know where he came from?
DS: No.
GC: You talked about going into town, obviously as a squadron and as a crew. What were the kind of things you did on your off days?
DS: Well. Relax one thing, and the other thing we obviously went to the pubs. We went to Dirty Annie’s for our meal and she used to give us eggs and bacons and things ‘cause we did like the breakfasts you used to have. We obviously had a bit of fun. We had parties in the mess. We went to once with an urn to fill it up with beer to come back so we all had a nice drink. It’s, it’s — we went together. So it’s, it’s about being together and enjoying our company ‘cause we’re, we’re fighting together.
GC: OK. We, we, we talked earlier as well about your crew. Could you just give us a little snapshot of each crew member please? With you.
DS: Well the pilot was Australian. He was in his thirties. He was very senior to us and he was our dad. He was a great pilot. The navigator was from Nova Scotia, Canada. Very, very good, very good navigator. The two gunners, mid-upper and rear were Canadians. The rear gunner at Penrose [?] thought he had enough so he went AWL and unfortunately got the LMF, lack of moral fibre. The bomber [unclear] and myself were both Londoners. And the wireless operator was somewhere from Middle East. I’m not quite sure where but unfortunately he went on a spare trip and got shot down and died.
GC: OK. I’ve read your CV and you, you spoke about bringing the POWs home. Could you tell us a little bit about bringing the POWs home?
DS: What? Sorry.
GC: Could you tell us a bit more about bringing the prisoners of war home?
DS: Oh sorry, yes. After the war, rather a wonderful thing really. We went [clears throat] — a whole lot of aircraft went [clears throat] I think it was to Belgium to pick up the prisoners of war. They were all lined up everywhere and as we taxied we stopped and our line all came into the aircraft. Full up. One sitting — standing right behind me. We took off and on the way back we saw the Cliffs of Dover and believe it or not they were all in tears.
GC: OK. I’d just like to say thank you very much. It’s been a pleasure and an honour to have met you today.
DS: It’s my pleasure. Thank you.
GC: You’re welcome.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with David Sanders
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Conforms To
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Pending review
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Gemma Clapton
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-05
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:31:24 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ASandersDS160305
Description
An account of the resource
David Sanders flew operations as a flight engineer with 189 and 619 Squadrons. He joined the Royal Air Force as a flight engineer and discusses an operation when they arrived too early over the target, being followed by a night fighter and having a bomb hang up. He also explains the role of a flight engineer.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Wales
England--Lincolnshire
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Contributor
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Tracy Johnson
189 Squadron
619 Squadron
aircrew
animal
bombing
flight engineer
Lancaster
military living conditions
military service conditions
Operation Exodus (1945)
RAF Fulbeck
RAF St Athan
RAF Strubby
Stirling
superstition
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/128/1278/AAbbottsC151015.2.mp3
cc3222384b5959170d324f9b72e8d83f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Abbotts, Cyril
C Abbotts
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. The collection consists of one oral history interview and one service and release book related to Warrant Officer Cyril Abbots (b. 1924, 1583753 Royal Air Force). Cyril Abbotts volunteered for the Royal Air Force and trained as a pilot in Canada. On his return to Great Britain he flew operations as a flight engineer with 57 Squadron from RAF East Kirkby in 1945 and later converted from Lancasters to Lincolns. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Cyril Abbot and catalogued by IBCC staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-15
Identifier
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Abbots, C
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: So today I’m with Cyril Abbott and we are at Malvern in Worcestershire and it is the 15th of October 2015 and we’re just going to talk about his time in the RAF. Cyril, could you start off by talking please about your, family early, your earliest times you recollect?
CA: I was born in 1924 in a place called Princes’ End, Tipton. I lived with father and mother, with my grandparents. My mother was one of a large family, unfortunately she died when I was six and for the next two years we were looked after by my Grandma until Dad remarried. My mother and father were, had a house built in a village Coseley, which was about two miles away but we never moved there because of my Mum’s death. But having remarried we moved as a family, mother, or I should say step-mother, and father and my sister Doris who was four years older than myself. And we moved to a house in Bradleys Lane Coseley. I went to junior schools in Princes End, Tipton and at the age of eleven I passed scholarship and entered Dudley Grammar School where I was educated for the next five, six years. I left school in ‘39 and went out to work with W and T Avery at Smethwick as a engineering apprentice. I didn’t like work so at the first opportunity I volunteered for the Air Force, for aircrew, and having had all the two days of tests at Digbeth, Birmingham, I was accepted as a recruit and sent home and told to wait until I heard from the RAF. I was a bit of a nuisance to my father and mother because every day I used to come home from work and say ‘Has the letter arrived?’ and nothing had appeared and I really caused a bit of grief. But eventually the letter arrived ordering me to report to ACRC at Lords’ Cricket Ground, London. I travelled to, down to London with a fellow from the village who was also joining up, I think it was the first time we’d ever been away from home by ourselves in the whole of our lives but we arrived at Lords’ and the cricket ground was full of recruits, you couldn’t see a blade of grass basically. But they formed us up in groups of about forty and marched us off to Seymour Hall baths where they told us to strip off and swim a hundred yards. This rather shook us I believe ‘cause having to swim without a costume, but we did this and those who could swim the hundred yards were pushed to one side of the bath, and those who couldn’t swim went to the other side. We found out later that the non-swimmers were sent off to RAF Cosford to learn to swim, if I’d have known that I would have done the same [laughs] because Cosford was within about twenty miles of home. But still, we, we were billeted in flats around St John’s Wood, waiting for postings to ITW. Eventually I was posted to 8 Wing ITW at Newquay, Cornwall where I spent the next three to four months school work. In actual fact I can remember the flight commander was a Flight Lieutenant Paine, he was an ex solicitor and the Squadron Leader I think was a man named Fabian, who was a English international footballer amateur. But, and the two PTIs was Corporal White and Corporal Beasley, one was a Londoner, a real Cockney, and they used to take us out on cross country runs. Because one day I, I decided I didn’t want to go, so we had to get changed and set off and I drifted to the back and at the nearest public toilets I disappeared into it, little realising that Corporal White was running right at the back and he caught me [laughs] and I was taken in front of the squadron commander and given three days CB, confined to barracks, but at the end of the, I think it was about twelve weeks of school work were finished and we were waiting then to, for postings and I eventually was posted to RAF Sywell for familiarisation, twelve hours in a Tiger Moth. Again, I remember the instructor was a Flight Lieutenant Bush, I think he could have owned the flying school which had been taken over by the RAF, but we did, we did about ten to twelve hours flying around in Tiger Moths to see if whether we were compatible with flying and then at the end we were posted to Heaton Park, Manchester which was a receiving centre for people waiting basically to go overseas. I mean there were literally hundreds of UT aircrew there and we used to have to attend in the morning when they would read out lists of people with the postings and you had to answer in a certain manner to signify that you’d understood the shouted instructions. Initially I’d received a posting to South Africa, Rhodesia for flying training and we went up to Blackpool to receive the inoculations required, and having received these inoculations we were sent back to Heaton Park where we found out that we weren’t going to South Africa after all. I was sent to Canada and we, we sailed from the River Clyde, Greenock, or something similar on the Queen Elizabeth, the original Queen Elizabeth one, and I think it was about three days and four nights journey which I didn’t like, I don’t, I’m not a, I don’t like sailing, I don’t like water and it was a welcome sight to go through the harbour bar at New York to get inside the docks because as we went through the bar and they closed it the ship lit up because we’d sailed in darkness over, through the Atlantic, and as soon as we entered the, the New York dock area all the lights came on the ship. I mean New York was lit up as you see it on the films, I mean we hadn’t seen lights for three years. Eventually we, we docked in Pier 91 next to the burnt-out Normandy which had been, it had gone on fire and had capsized in the dock next to us, and it was still there. But eventually we were taken off the boat and we went under the river to New Jersey to get a train to go up to Monkton, RAF Monkton in Canada. We had to pass through the customs between America and Canada, and we stopped on the American side and one or two of us shot off because we were near to a small town and got a glass of beer, and we’d got to drink this very quickly and we didn’t realise the American beer was practically frosty, it was very, very cold. But we, eventually we arrived in Monkton, and we were there for maybe a week or so before we were sent west to the flying schools and I finished up at 32 EFTS, RAF Bowden in Alberta, I mean we could see the Rockies on the horizon, as we drove from the station, Innisfail was the station, why I know that is because I was reading a book by an ex Worcestershire cricketer, Cheston, who had trained there as well, and I picked up the name Innisfail I’d forgotten, but as we drove up from the station to the aerodrome all the training planes were lined up with their tails towards us and we all thought God, we’re all going to be fighter pilots, they looked like fighter ‘planes ‘cause they were all Fairchild Cornell which was a low wing plane. We were there for a period of time, I think we got in about seventy or eighty hours, and I soloed quite quickly after about five hours and during the training I realised that I would never become a fighter pilot because I didn’t like aerobatics. I always remember being sent up to practice spins and to do this you climbed to about three or four thousand feet and then spun down, and pulled out and climbed back and did it again. But every time I went to do it I’d get practically to the point of stall, at which point I was supposed to kick in rudder to go right or left and my nerve went so I pushed the nose down and climbed another thousand feet until I finished up at about ten thousand feet before I forced myself to spin. But having done it the first time and realised I could get out of trouble it wasn’t so bad, but aerobatics I just did not like. So I made my mind up then that I would never become a fighter pilot, I’d go for twins or multi engines. Having completed the elementary training we were posted to service flying training and I was posted to a place called RAF Estevan in Saskatchewan it was right on the American border just a few miles on the Canadian side but it was more or less in the middle of the dustpan, everything was covered with dust, there was a wind at all times and it was just blowing this dust and coating everything. The dormitories had got double-glazing with a mesh screen to try to keep this dust out, but they were flying Ansons there for training and we had to have a check to see whether our leg length was sufficient to be able to apply full rudder in the event of an engine failure. Well I didn’t like the station I thought I’m going to do my best to get away from here, so when I came to do my test I put, extending my to get full rudder and I gradually slipped down in the pilots’ seat so that I couldn’t see over the top of the board, dashboard, so that I failed the test. I didn’t realise that I could have been washed out of pilot training but I was posted away from Estevan to RAF Moose Jaw at Saskatchewan to fly Tiger Moths. The Anson hadn’t got a moveable rudder pedal whereas the Oxford had, you could wind them in to suit your leg length. The Oxford had got a bad reputation for killing people. It was a very difficult aeroplane to fly and they said that if you could fly an Oxford you could fly anything. And I took to the Oxford, I soloed after about five hours again and from then on it was just train, train, train until we eventually finished, I think we did something like about a hundred and fifty hours flying, and it came, the wings, the graduation ceremony, and I believe we were presented with our wings by Air Vice-Marshal Billy Bishop who was a Canadian fighter pilot in the First World War. I believe that it was him but we had already sewn wings on our uniforms and stripes on our arms if we were becoming sergeants, but we had to parade without, without wings or stripes on. But then having graduated, we had, we were given a posting back to Halifax, to get the boat back to England. We were allowed, I think, forty eight hours to have a leave in either Quebec or Montreal on the way back. I can’t remember now whether we were in Quebec or Montreal, but we eventually got back to Halifax and boarded the French liner, Louis Pasteur, to come back and it was a terrible journey. Since we were now supposed sergeants capable of looking after ourselves on the ship some of us were posted as assistant gunners on the anti-aircraft guns which were put about ten feet above the boat deck on a little platform with a rail around it to stop you falling off. And we had an Oerlikon cannon to look after. I mean we’d never seen a firearm but we’d got a naval man as the gunner and we were just there to help, But we always said the Louis Pasteur was a flat bottomed boat because it rolled and rocked like nobody’s business and there were literally thousands on the boat, the conditions were terrible, but every morning at about twelve o’clock if I remember rightly, we had a rendezvous with a Coastal Command aircraft so that when it came time we had to close up the guns in case it wasn’t an RAF plane, but bang on the dot it would appear out of the clouds, circle round for about half an hour, and then off it would go and we’d plough on. I mean we were not escorted it was just a, a quick dash across and I must admit I saw more U boats in the sea, that on that journey, than the German’s had got, every wave was a U boat. [laugh] But eventually we arrived at Liverpool, and we disembarked and were shipped to RAF Harrogate, the Majestic Hotel we were billeted in, and there were literally thousands of pilots, bomb aimers and navigators there. We just, we just didn’t know what was going to happen to us. I mean they came round I think twice, once asking for volunteers to change to glider pilot training. I mean those that did, that accepted it, I think most probably went in at Arnhem. But I being frightened, I decided I would stay and get an aeroplane with engines. So I was there for quite some time and eventually I was sent, we had um, because we’d been in Canada, living the life of luxury, they sent us up to Whitley Bay, Newcastle under the Army to have a month toughening up, and everything was done at the double. I was given a rifle and a band to cover my sergeant’s stripes, we used to have to wear these because the instructors were corporals and privates of the commandos and they gave us a real tough time. Route marches of about twelve miles, my feet were sore, but that was completed and we came back to Harrogate. They just didn’t know what to do with us. So we, eventually I ended up at RAF Bridgenorth, under canvas, and we always said we were draining an air commodore’s farm because we were digging ditches all the time and there were, there were Australians, and other Commonwealth aircrew with us and they used to, to show how tough they were, they’d sleep out in the open without a tent, until they got wet once or twice, [laugh] but we were there most probably two or three weeks and back again to Harrogate. And then I went on airfield control at RAF Gamston, just outside Worksop, acting as traffic control watching the Wellingtons, it was an OTU unit, and we were there [indistinct] at night on flare path duty and the control hut flashing greens or reds as required with an Aldis lamp. While I was there, I became friends with one or two of the screened pilots so I managed to get a few hours in on a Wellington. At the end of the, at the end of the time Gamston was closed down and the ‘planes moved to other OTUs so I got a few hours flying with the screen people taking these aeroplanes to the stations. The funniest part was we landed at one, we had a plane which went round all the aerodromes picking up the screened crews to take them back to Gamston, a Wellington, and it was very funny we landed one control, or pulled up at the control tower and shut the engines down waiting for the people to be picked up and out trooped from the Wellington, about eighteen people and the control officer’s jaw dropped when he saw all these people coming out [laugh] but it was quite, we stood, down the Wellington hanging onto the geo, geodetic structure, it was quite funny. From Gamston, I eventually was posted, oh yeah, I think I went back to Harrogate again and there I was volunteered to do an engineers’ course at St Athan down in South Wales. There was no chance of becoming an official pilot because they hadn’t got enough aeroplanes and there was too many people. So we were volunteered to do an engineers’ course at St Athan on the Lancaster systems, which we did about six weeks just to get the fundamentals of the system. And having completed that I was posted to sixteen 54 HCU at RAF Wigsley in Lincolnshire, where I was going to get crewed up with an ex OTU pilot and crew who wanted an Engineer, so we walked in, as engineers we walked into an office where there were pilots sitting around and the first person I saw was a man who’d been on the course immediately in front of me at Moose Jaw, a flying officer, he was a Pilot Officer Coates and we made contact and starting talking, he said ‘Well I’m looking for an engineer’ I said, ‘Well I’m an engineer but I’m also a pilot’ he said ‘Do you want to come and fly with me?’ ‘Yep’, and that’s how I joined Pilot Officer Coates’ crew because we knew each other. We completed a number of hours on the, at the heavy con unit, the conversion unit, and we were posted as a crew to 57 Squadron at East Kirkby.
CB: So when was this exactly?
CA: Well I think it was in either February ’45, because I wasn’t on the squadron long enough to be able to be awarded the Bomber Command Clasp which I thought was a bit em, bit naughty of them, I can come to that later. Well we were introduced to Wing Commander Tomes who was the Squadron Commander and I think Squadron Leader Astall although I’m not sure about that name. And we were more or less sent off to go and do some practice flying which we thought we’d done enough with the heavy con unit but it wasn’t good enough for the squadron. So we did quite a few cross countries and bombing practice at Wainfleet. And one day I was, I think most likely the last one in the engineer’s office and I was about to go for tea, and as I was walking out the engineer officer shouts, ‘Cyril, what are you doing tonight?’ I said ‘I’m going to have a beer why?’ he said ‘No you’re not, you’re flying.’ He said so and so has called in, his engineer’s gone sick, so they want an engineer so you’re flying as a spare bod on Flying Officer Jack Curran, who was an Australian pilot, he was short of an engineer so I was going with him and that night we went to Luetzkendorf which was the first operation, our rear gunner had also been made a spare bod and he went as a rear gunner with another crew. But Jack, Jack Curran had been shot down about two months previously and had got back so he was, he was a bit nervous as a pilot, he gave me a bit of jitters, because once we crossed, if I remember rightly, once we crossed over the Channel and got to the other side he proceeded to weave all the time and it made a heck of a mess of my petrol consumptions. But the thing that I always remember, was having got to the target, was the different colours or shades of red that there are, or were, I’d never seen so many different shades. Of course I mean I didn’t realise what was happening I mean I was, I’d got bags and bags of window which I was pushing [unclear] down the chute like nobody’s business thinking they were saving me but they weren’t they were saving the people coming behind me. But I pushed packets of it down, I even jammed the ‘chute once I had to get a big file from out of my kit, my tool kit and try and clear it and the file went down the ‘chute as well so that if that hit anybody downstairs they would have had a headache. But eventually we got, we came back and as we neared East Kirkby, Jack had called in to ask for landing instructions and we were told to vamoose, scatter, it was either an intruder in the circuit or something but we scattered like nobody’s business heading towards Wales, and on the way, we were told to make for RAF Bruntingthorpe which we eventually reached and Jack landed the Lanc’ alright, we parked it and were taken into a room for a bit of a debrief, given something to eat and then we were taken to beds in the dorms, in the Nissen huts. And I was, I was lying there on the bed, I couldn’t get to sleep, I suppose it was the adrenalin still coursing through the veins, but I was smoking away like nobody’s business, and I woke up the man in the bed next to where I was and he sat up and he saw I was a flight sergeant, he saw my tunic on the bed, so he said ‘What’s happened?’ so I just explained that we’d been diverted there and we were talking, he was a corporal engine fitter and he looked at me and I looked at him quite intently as if we knew each other. So eventually one or other said ‘Were you ever in Canada?’ and I said ‘Yes, you were at Moose Jaw, were you at Moose Jaw?’ ‘Yes’, he’d been an Engine Fitter out on the flights at Moose Jaw and had been posted back to, from Canada and he was working, was working at Bruntingthorpe on the Wellingtons. Well eventually we were given the all clear to go back to East Kirkby and, although it was forbidden, the squadron pilots always shot up the aerodrome having taken off. So we, we took off and joined a queue of people waiting to go down the runway and ignored it which we did. The station commander went mad and by the time we got back to East Kirkby the squadron commander was waiting for us and he proceeded to tear us off a strip. ‘They were OTU pilots being taught to fly safely and you people go down and show them what not to do’ [laugh] still it was Lancaster below zero feet going at about two hundred miles an hour is something, it’s really exhilarating, but still. Um, oh yeah, a few days later we went to Pilsen as a crew, Fred Coates the pilot and the rest of the crew, I mean he’d already done two spare bods as a pilot getting the idea of what happened, and Johnny the rear gunner had been, but the, I’d been but the others hadn’t so it was all new to them, but us old hands [laugh]. Well we went to Pilsen and our navigator was a graduate and he was a very meticulous navigator, very good, but very meticulous. I mean when we were flying you’d hear his voice come over the, the intercom, ‘What speed are we supposed to be flying at?’ ‘About two hundred and twenty, why?’ he said ‘I want two hundred and twenty five, nothing else, two twenty five is the airspeed.’ So I spent minutes trying to get the, the right speed. And he’d come through, ‘What course are you steering?’ ‘Why?’ He said ‘You’re two degrees out’, oh he was a, he was a menace [laugh]. But on the way, it’s only in latter life that I’ve realised this, but it was his first trip, it was most of us second or third and he was navigating and he said ‘We’re too early, we’re going to get to target too early’ so Fred said ‘Well what do you want to do?’ So Marsh says ‘We’ll do a dog leg, turn, and he gave us a course to turn to the left, to port, and flew out for a few minutes and then to come back into the, into the stream and go, head toward the target again, we’d lose the required minutes. And like fools Fred and I did this, but during the flight we were getting, we were getting, bumped about a bit and we couldn’t understand this because there was no flak to blow us around but we’d get jumped up and down, it would last a minute and then die down and then about a few minutes later again. We couldn’t fathom out what it was, but it’s only in latter life that I’ve realised what it was, because we got to Pilsen and back okay, and then we were put on a daylight to go to Flensburg, and I mean the RAF didn’t flew, didn’t fly in formation, they just got into a gaggle and went. So we joined the bunch and the idea was to get into the middle of the stream, so you kept lifting yourself up a bit, move over and then gradually drop down and force the man underneath to move out of the way so that you were doing this all the time. And occasionally we’d get this bump and it’s only as I say in latter life that I realised that at night when we got these bumps it was the slipstream of planes in front of us, that I never, I never saw a plane during flying at night but we must have been very, very close because it showed up during this daylight. But we went to Flensburg and it was aborted we couldn’t bomb, why we were never told but I did see a Messerschmitt 262 I think was the jet fighter, something came, went through the formation like nobody’s business but we’d got Mustang fighter escort they were most probably about ten thousand feet above us, but we did see them come down and go through the formation, on the way down to the deck whether they’d, they went down to er, hit some of these two five twos taking off, two six twos, but that was quite a sight to see these little, little bits going through the, through the formation. But my war ended with that aborted raid on Flensburg. We were thinking we should be going to Berchtesgaden but all the, the higher ups of the squadron did that, they didn’t let the lower lads do it. Then after the , after the war I flew on Lincolns, 57 Squadron were given three Lincolns initially to carry out service trials on them and by this time our pilot, Fred Coates, had departed. He’d been a police constable before the war and since they wanted the police in peace time to build up again they got Class B releases, or they were allowed to take Class B release. So Fred had just married his Canadian girlfriend who’d come over here to marry and 57 Squadron was one of the squadrons that were going out on Tiger Force to the Far East but Fred said no he wasn’t going to go, he’d get his Class B which he did. And we had another pilot, a Flight Lieutenant Strickland, who was posted into us to take over the crew. He came up I think from Mildenhall, I can’t remember which group they were, but he’d been an instructor in Canada for a number of years and he was very meticulous with his flying, everything was perfect and he kept the rest of us on top line. We flew the Lincolns, we’d got three and I think Mildenhall station they’d got three, we had lots of trouble with engine failures where as Mildenhall had airframe failures, rivets popping and things like that so it was quite, it was quite stressful flying these Lincolns. I’ve got a write up.
CB: We’ll stop there just for a moment.
CA: Yeah, I’ve got a write up actually,
CB: So we’ve stopped for a comfort break, and you were talking about Lincolns, you took on Lincolns?
CA: Oh yeah.
CB: You took on Lincolns. What happened then?
CA: Well, with the Lincolns, we as I say we’d got three and I since found that there was a Flight Lieutenant, Flight Lieutenant Jones who was one of the leading lights in the flight, I can’t recall him really, but erm.
CB: This is still war time before the Japanese surrender isn’t it?
CA: It was, yeah, but it was after the European war –
CB: Yep.
CA: And it was in the time between May and August -
CB: Right.
’45. The Lincoln was, was being produced to go overseas with the Tiger Force because the Lanc’ hadn’t got the range that was required and the Lincoln was supposed to have. But it wasn’t, in our eyes, it wasn’t as good as the Lancaster, I mean we were in love with the Lanc’ whereas the Lincoln was, was something different. I fully remember on one flight, I was sitting down on the right hand side and Pete was flying and I looked out of the starboard side and looked at the wing and I could see the skin rippling and I nearly collapsed with fear because I could see the wing moving up and down, and when it lifted up, so it rippled the skin at the join between the mid-section and the wing section, and for the rest of the flight my eyes never left that section [laugh] that part, but I found out when we got down that the wings moved five feet between the bottom and top and this was due to the weight of them and the, the fuel. And it was only after then that I noticed that when the Lincoln sat on the ground the wings appeared to be drooped and they moved up during the take off period to obtain the flying attitude. But it was a frightening sight I will admit.
CB: So it was a bigger aeroplane?
CA: It was a bigger aeroplane, it was heavier, I don’t know about the bomb load. I don’t think it was any different.
CB: But they were bigger engines and could fly higher and the span was a hundred and twenty four feet?
CA: A hundred and twenty.
CB: Hundred and twenty.
CA: About a hundred and twenty feet, yeah.
CB: Now when did you get promoted to warrant officer?
CA: Two years after I graduated. You were made, when you got your wings, you were a sergeant for about nine to twelve months and then flight sergeant for a year and then you became warrant officer. I mean a lot of the ground crew, senior NCO’s didn’t like this, I mean there were us youngsters who were up to sergeants after about eighteen months and they’d been in the Air Force for years and had just made corporal. So there was a bit of resentment between the ground crew NCO’s and the aircrews. But of course I mean we were only as aircrew given stripes, or officers in case you were ever shot down and taken prisoner, you got better treatment as a NCO, but that was the only reason.
CB: OK, so fast forward again to the Lincolns, your time in the RAF finished when, 1946?
CA: 1946 November.
CB: Right, so what did you do?
CA: What did I do afterwards?
CB: After the war, after the war finished?
CA: Well, I came back and as I said previously, I’d been an apprentice with Avery’s, and my apprenticeship had been cancelled when I joined up. So I went back to Avery’s and recommenced my apprenticeship but due to my service, instead of having to do a further length of time, because I was apprenticed for about five years and I had only done about twelve months, they reduced the remaining time by about twelve months and they concluded my apprenticeship about twelve months, having served and I’d done a four year apprenticeship instead of five, and that would have been somewhere around about 1947, ‘48 when I, they transferred me into the drawing office at Avery’s and I became a draughtsman.
CB: How long did you work as a draughtsman?
CA: Well I left Avery’s in 1951 and I was employed by the Cannon Iron Foundries for a year and then I, I went to Thompson Brothers in Bilsden for about three years and finally finished at ICI Marston Excelsior in ’56.
CB: What did you do there?
CA: I was a design draughtsman there and I, I did design, design work on, I always remember my first job was designing a heat exchanger for the Folland Gnat , just a small one, I can’t remember what it was for, I believe it was for the pilot cooling system to keep him cool. But this was on heat exchange. I finished up actually on heavy fabrication work, in aluminium work, and I became a section leader. I did various jobs, I engineered a liquid ethylene storage plant for ICI organic, organic section I think, or one of the sections at Billingham where we stored surplus liquid ethylene. And we stored it in a big container like a gasometer and I, I was given a piece of ground on the side of the river and put a storage plant there. I must admit that my initial estimate of costs was way down, [laugh] I made a hell of a bloomer, I think I estimated about a hundred and fifty thousand and it finished up at about, eight hundred thousand [laugh] we had quite a, an argument, not argument, discussion why [laugh]. But then I went onto production, onto the production side of the factory, as chief planning officer on fabrications which I, I did until the work started to peter out so I went onto development work on cold rolling of noble alloys for jet engines.
CB: This is all for ICI?
CA: All, yes, it’s all under ICI’s name, we bought in a cold rolling machine from Holland and we used to roll to very, very close tolerances. Rolls Royce were trying to reduce their costs by getting in components where they didn’t really have to do any work on, and I mean the jet engines required diameters to a thou’ in tolerance and we were supposed to try to do this by rolling them, which we did eventually, I mean we bought this machine. I went out to G, GE the American counterpart of Rolls Royce. GEC?
CB: GE yeah, General Electric.
CA: And I spent a fortnight out there getting some idea of how they tackled it but I mean they’d got a different idea I mean where here we had to justify spending sixpence, there the engineer, development engineer said ‘I want a machine it costs two hundred thousand pounds’ and he was given the money and they got the machine. Whereas we were trying to do it on one machine they’d got a battery of them, about ten. I mean this is the reason why they are the world beaters. Money is no object.
CB: When did you finally retire?
CA: I retired in March ’86 having completed thirty years.
CB: OK, thank you, I’ll stop there. So we’re restarting, we’re restarting just on a flashback. So you’re back from Canada as a qualified pilot.
CA: Yeah. I should have said then that I went up to, we were asked where we wanted postings to go to for flying. I never realised that there was a flying school at Wolverhampton otherwise I would have asked, instead I got posted up to RAF Carlisle on Tiger Moths where we did about a month flying a Tiger Moth around getting used to flying in English conditions. We used to take a navigator or a bomb aimer as a passenger for them to practice map reading while we flew it. We did a lot of flying around the Lake District, we were flying over Maryport and Workington I think is the other port, on the coast there. And we, we used to go down and count the number of ships that were in the harbour and things like this, and then having to fly back over the Lake District which was very, which could be quite treacherous with the down draughts and the winds whistling over the hills. It used to bounce the Tiger Moths around like nobody’s business. But we did that for about a month and then we were posted again hoping we were going to get posted to OTUs but it never, never, I was, you asked how I felt. I felt disappointed having made my mind up I was never going to fly single engine fighters I put down for twin engines or multis. The onus was on providing crews for four engine planes. So to get there I’d got to go to an OTU and that was never going to happen. So when I was posted to the engineers’ course I accepted it and it, I was still flying, that was what I wanted to do, I wanted to fly. So that, I made the best of a bad job. I thoroughly enjoyed it I mean, I enjoyed the, being on a squadron, being a crew, being a member of a crew and we’d got a good crew. I mean our mid upper gunner was the only one who could shoot through the aerial leading to the rudders which he did time and time again, it used to cost him half a crown a time when he pierced them, I mean this was when we were doing air to air gunnery and he was firing at a drogue and he’d traverse and ‘ping’ and Andy the wireless operator would say ‘You’ve done it again’ [laugh], but um.
CB: So, how long did you keep your pilots brevet?
CA: All the time.
CB: Oh did you, throughout the war?
CA: Yes, yes we were never forced to change them. That is why I always say I was a PFE rather than a flight engineer, I was a pilot flight engineer. And the pilots that I flew with gave me the opportunity to fly, to pilot. I mean Peter who was the ex-instructor, he was always within reach of pulling me out of the seat if necessary, but Fred he used to go and wander down to the Elsan at the back and leave me in charge. I mean I was playing about one day above the clouds and I was following the, the shape of the clouds up and down and Johnny who was sitting with his turret doors open, fore and aft, and it, it started to get a bit robust, the movement of the up and down movement and the Elsan lid which was tied down with a bungee rubber broke and the contents of the Elsan came up, [laugh], oh dear, and it covered him [laugh], he didn’t speak to me for days [laugh] because he knew it was me and not Fred [laugh].
CB: How did the crew get on together socially?
CA: Very good, very good we never went anywhere unless we went as a six. I mean, we bought our beer in the mess, we bought it by the bucket and helped ourselves with dipping the glass into the bucket rather than separate. No, it was a very good crew, very good.
CB: So in those days you could buy beer in a bucket could you?
CA: In the mess.
CB: In the mess, right.
CA: In the mess yeah.
CB: OK, and as a crew you worked well together?
CA: Oh yes, yes.
CB: And er.
CA: Well Marsh, he was working, he wanted to get onto pathfinders.
CB: Marsh being?
CA: The navigator. He was a very good navigator but, Mac, the bomb aimer, he was more of, an easy come, easy go.
CB: So.
CA: That second or the first raid as a crew to Pilsen we went through the target twice because Mac he wouldn’t drop because he couldn’t line it up properly so he said ‘I’ll send you round again’ and the rest of us shouted ‘What the hell, will you pull them’ and Fred said ‘If you don’t I shall jettison’. So he says ‘Go round again!’ So we had to make our way round and come back and get it back in the stream and fly it through but on the second time he let them go.
CB: This is a daylight raid?
CA: No, this was a night raid —
CB: This was in the night. So the reason I said that is because that sounds a particularly dangerous thing to do when you can’t see anything —
CA: It was a, well this is it, I mean what with trying to get in, slip into the stream, I mean you, I never saw another Lancaster in the stream. And I mean we went through the target we were only given somewhere maybe half an hour from the start to the end of the squadron’s time over the target so I mean God knows how close we were, but we were very close when we were getting buffeted by slipstream. But I mean a, when Marsh sent us on a dog leg when we turned out of the stream and then had to come back and join it again. We didn’t realise the stupidity of it, but Marsh being Marsh he’d got to have it down on his chart.
CB: Why would it have mattered if you had arrived early?
CA: Well a, the target may not have been indicated, or they were down below marking it, so you, I mean er.
CB: You could have bombed your own people —
CA: You could have bombed them, yeah —
CB: Right OK.
CA: And since the Lancaster was always the top flight, I mean it was Lancasters, Halifaxes, Stirlings.
CB: Right, there’s a ranking.
CA: So.
CB: And how did the crew feel, and you feel, about what you were doing as bombers?
CA: I don’t think we thought about it.
CB: OK.
CA: I don’t think we thought about it. I mean the first one — we had been bombed at home in 1940. We’d had a landmine dropped within about a hundred yards of home and our house is most probably still standing with the back, back wall bulged where the roof lifted and the walls started to move and it dropped down and it held. So I wanted to do something back but having that I don’t think you, we never talked about whether there was a right or wrong, it was a job.
CB: My wife was born in a bombing raid in Birmingham.
CA: Eh hum.
CB: What about LMF, did you know anything about that, or experience.
CA: We knew of it.
CB: Yes.
CA: We knew of it but we never met anyone who was accused of it or anything like that. But we didn’t like the idea because it wasn’t nice when you were over there. A funny tale, we had a man on the squadron, he was a dark, a Negro, and he was as black as the ace of spades, colour. And he’d got perfectly white teeth and he was known as twenty three fifty nine, that was his nickname, because twenty three fifty nine is the darkest part of the night, or supposed to be, a minute before midnight. And he was a rear gunner and when he was in his turret at night and you walked past it all you could see was these white teeth. It was really funny, but he was a good lad.
CB: What about other aspects of the work? When you boarded the aircraft what did you have with you to eat or drink?
CA: I think the only thing I can remember is boiled sweets. I mean I can’t ever remember fruit, or anything like that. I don’t think we ever took, I never took a drink at all. I mean I can tell the tale where, I mean, we used, sometimes to remember to take a bottle to use and one day Fred had forgotten his, the pilot, and he was in, he was in dire trouble. So he said ‘I’ve got to have something, I’ve got to have something’ so I was scooting round trying to, what the hell can he have? And I went and took the cover off the G George instrument, gyro, which was a pan of about eight or nine inch diameter and about three or four inches deep held on with four screws. So I took this off and gave him this to use, which he used. So he used it and said ‘Here get rid of it’ so I said ‘How?’ he says ‘Throw it out the window’ so I pulled my sliding window back —
CB: [laugh] —
CA: and threw it out, threw the contents. Of course, I mean as soon as the contents went out the slipstream took it all the way down the canopy, the Perspex, and we, I couldn’t see out of that side all the way back, and I also lost the G cover [laugh] which cost me five shillings and a telling off from the engineer officer. How, why was the G cover uncovered. ‘I can’t remember’ [laugh].
CB: Now what about the ground crew because you relied on them so, what was the relationship with them?
CA: Very good, other than the first time I went, we joined the squadron, and I don’t know whether I ought to say this, can I, can I not get up?
CB: Um.
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Interview with Cyril Abbotts
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Cyril Abbotts volunteered for the Royal Air Force while he was an engineering apprentice with W T Avery at Smethwick. After his reception at Lord’s Cricket Ground and initial training,he trained as a pilot at RAF Bowden and Moose Jaw in Canada. On his return to Great Britain, he spent some time in holding units, before being posted to retrain as a flight engineer at RAF St Athan. He flew operations with 57 Squadron from RAF East Kirkby in 1945 and later converted from Lancasters to Lincolns. Post-war he completed his apprenticeship, becoming a draughtsman for various companies including ICI. He retired after 30 years of service with them.
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Chris Brockbank
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2015-10-15
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Dawn Studd
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01:18:53 audio recording
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eng
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AAbbottsC151015
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Canada
Saskatchewan--Moose Jaw
England--London
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Great Britain
Germany
Wales
Saskatchewan
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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1654 HCU
57 Squadron
African heritage
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
bomb aimer
bombing
Cornell
crewing up
demobilisation
fear
flight engineer
Flying Training School
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lincoln
Me 262
military discipline
military living conditions
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
P-51
physical training
pilot
promotion
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF Carlisle
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Gamston
RAF Heaton Park
RAF St Athan
RAF Sywell
RAF Wigsley
RCAF Bowden
RCAF Estevan
recruitment
sanitation
Tiger force
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
Window
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/16/6136/AAtkinsonA150623.2.mp3
194d2829b0981bb39f112129e533bbe5
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Atkinson, Arthur
Arthur Atkinson
A Atkinson
Description
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Seven items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Arthur Atkinson (1922 - 2020, 1042303 Royal Air Force) his log book, service material and two photographs. Arthur Atkinson trained as a wireless operator and spent eighteen months at RAF Ringway before being flying 34 operations with 61 Squadron from RAF Coningsby and RAF Skellingthorpe.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Arthur Atkinson and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-23
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
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Atkinson, A
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MC: Ok so If you tell us about when and where you were born, and then go on from there.
AA: Yeah, I was born in Lancaster in Lancashire in 1922, went to a normal school, elementary school then I won a scholarship to the local Grammar school but , we didn’t have a lot of money so I wasn’t able to take up the scholarship so I carried on schooling at the elementary as long as I could and then when I left school, the Headmaster, I was head boy in the school by the time I left, and the headmaster got me a job at the local accountant, which was fine but in those days five shillings didn’t go a long way. So, in no time at all I had to leave there and got a job with the local coop behind the counter which I hated, I hated it from the first day and I decided then and there as soon as I was old enough I would join the RAF. That was my ambition I’d had one flight in an Avro 504 the open cockpit type with a local chap that came and that set me off I volunteered for the Royal Air Force as wireless operator, I always wanted to be a wireless operator and got my number at pad Gate I was accepted I got my number but unfortunately, they sent me home for deferred service which didn’t suit me at all. I was home for about six months and at the end of six months I was so fed up I wrote a letter to the Air ministry, saying “have you forgotten me?” and a week later my papers came. Then I reported to Blackpool to the initial training wing and wireless school, did my wireless training over Woolworth’s in Blackpool and then down to Compton Bassett to finish off with and when I qualified as a wireless operator I was posted to Ringway airport Manchester which then was RAF Ringway doing ground wireless operating duties there for about eighteen months until I was put under draft to go overseas as a ground wireless operator. Well a friend of mine on the same draft said “this isn’t good enough”, we were both waiting for aircrew training by then, so I went on embarkation leave, he went to see the CO and said “look you know this isn’t playing the game” so the CO agreed with him, and when I came back from leave embarkation leave found I’d been taken off the draft, and in a short while I was posted down to Yatesbury on a refresher course then went through the usual mill of flying training at Yatesbury.
MC: What sort of aircraft were you flying in?
AA: Proctor’s, little Proctor’s, Dominie, to start with then little Proctor’s then I did an EFU at Boddington near to Ha’penny Green then gunnery course down at Stormy Down in Wales. Then I finally qualified at the Operational training unit at Market Harborough and was crewed up by self-selection, I saw a pilot walking along and I liked the look of him and asked him if he wanted a wireless operator and did, he had a Bomb aimer, asked me if I knew any gunners which I did, and eventually we crewed up. Went through the training and finally posted to Coningsby 61 squadron.
MC: Who was your skipper and crew then?
AA: Bob Acott, Basil. M. Acott but we called him Bob. The only thing was that we hadn’t had leave for ages and they said you can’t go on leave until you’ve done at least one operation with the squadron but unfortunately before we went on Ops we had to a couple of cross countries and unfortunately our navigator suffered from airsickness and every time we took off he was ill so this delayed us somewhat and we were not very happy about it anyway eventually they swapped him for another navigator Dickie Ward he was a good lad, and we were put on the list to go to Stuttgart our first op. This was a disaster completely from start to finish. We took off, we hadn’t been flying long and it was fairly obvious our DR compass wasn’t working properly, anyway we pressed on and it was our first trip it was a press on type anyway after hours and hours it seemed to me we didn’t find Stuttgart we found a glowing under a cloud, a red glow in some clouds and thought this must be it so we unloaded the bombs there which was, whether it was Stuttgart or not I don’t know any way we tried to, we left the bombing area tried to fly back to the UK still wondering all over the place with this DR compass which wasn’t working properly we hadn’t flown long before bomb aimer checked the bombays and found a thousand pound bomb had been hung up so we opened the doors and we let that go I don’t know who got it but we were over Germany so it didn’t really matter a lot, we carried on flying wandering all over Europe I should think and after ages and ages the rear gunner said he thought he saw the coastline underneath, well that’s great so approximate course to England we kept flying and flying and nothing happened and a bit later on he spoke up and said “I’m sorry skipper, I was wrong the first time I can clearly see the coast below now” so then the skipper said, “well that’s alright but I don’t think we’ve got enough fuel to get across the Channel now” so he said “I’ll tell you what…” he got on to all of the crew and he said “we've got to make a decision, you can either bail out, in which case you would be prisoners of war, or we can try cross, get across the channel and if necessary we will have to ditch, what do you want to do?” universal decision we'll try and get across the channel so off we went over ten tenths cloud we flew on and we flew on but nothing was happening then suddenly through a break in the clouds we saw a beacon flashing now I couldn’t establish where it was, and all this time I’d been trying to get my radio set to work to find out where we were unfortunately every time I wound out my trailing aerial it was shorting out and I couldn’t get any power on the transmitter and very little on the receiver. So anyway we got to this beacon and the skipper flew round and round it and said “we’ve got another decision to make” the first decision wasn’t a good one but anyway we had found this beacon and we flew round it and he said “the only thing is, if it’s a land marker you can bail out but if it’s a sea marker you’ll drown, on the other hand if I decide to ditch the aircraft thinking it’s a sea marker, and it’s a land marker there’s going to be one hell of a bang” so anyway flying around this beacon trying to make our minds up suddenly an airfield lit up beneath us and there it was full runways, perimeter the lot marvellous we’ll land there so we went round to land wheels down, wheels wouldn’t come down, bomb aimer tried the flaps, the flaps wouldn’t work so we overshot. We came round again and this time we blew the wheels down with a compressed air tank that was behind my head in the wireless compartment and they fortunately came down and locked and with the flight engineer pumping like mad on the flaps he managed to hit the ground and roll along Well I went to the back of the aircraft open the door and I saw a chap on a bicycle with a blue torch and I said “aye mate where’s this then?” and he said “Westonzoyland “, I thought what the hell we have landed in Holland it sounded Dutch to me “Westonzoyland!” I said, “where’s that?”, he said “Somerset”. So, there we were got some sort of transport went to the Flying control tower saw the chap that had put the lights on and he said, “the first time you went and you didn’t land, I put my hand out to switch off the lights off again but I thought I’d give them one more chance”. It’s a good job he did, so we thanked, we ran to and thanked the beacon crew because I had been firing red, red greens the pilot had been saying ‘hello darkie this is spot null tear calling darkie’. Flashing the nose light SOS doing all sorts while we circle this beacon, when we went to the flying control we saw a Warrant officer in charge of the signal flight who’d been to the mess for a couple of mugs of tea for him and the WAAF that was working on the radio set, as he came through the door with the two mugs of tea, there was the WAAF under the bench unconscious; the same thing had happened about a fortnight before and an aircraft had called up in distress and then they hadn’t been able to contact it, gone across the Bristol channel crashed into the Welsh mountains , now she thought she was listening to a ghost when she heard us so she passed out under the bench so she was a lot of help. But anyway, it all worked out very nicely, but we had to stay down there for three days while they flew ground crews down from Coningsby to fix the aircraft everything was wrong with it, took them three days to fix it then we went back to Coningsby and then we went on leave. Now in some ways Harry our navigator, this sick navigator saved our lives because while we were on leave they did the Nuremberg raid and the Berlin raid and lost 95 aircraft as you know, so that was very fortunate. After that we carried on and did another thirty three ops, I think it was and then we finally finished our tour of ops, I was posted down to 17 OTU Silverstone as an instructor and stayed there until I was de-mobbed in 1946.
MC: So, you did thirty four ops, more than normal?
AA: Yes, but that was because some bright spark decided that French targets it’s easier than German targets so you had to do three French targets to count as one operation. That’s why it’s got the thirty three, thirty four.
MC: So, you did a few daylight raids?
AA: Yeah, we did about three daylight raids I think but I didn’t believe this business about being easier, because one night my crew, were stood down and the wireless operator in S-sugar was sick so I was told to fly with them. Pilot officer Hallet In S-Sugar so we took off, well after the briefing I was quite pleased in a way that I’d been put with this crew, because it was ten minutes over France flying bomb sites but this was a doddle so off we went got to this flying bomb site just across the channel no flack just lots and lots of searchlights and fighters circling round the outside waiting for us and as we went into bomb they were attacking us three at a time, I have never corkscrewed so hard in my life as I did with Hallet. But anyway, before we had taken off on the ops I was talking to a couple of chaps and the crew wasn’t with me, I was talking to two wireless operators , well three actually Kemish, Donahue, Sutton there was four of us talking and when I came back from the ten minutes over France, Kemish and Donoghue were no longer there, I think there was twenty two aircraft lost on that ten minutes and two were from our squadron and both of them wireless operators, I was chatting to them before we took off, so that was that anyway apart from the normal flying after that there wasn’t a great lot to talk about . I remember one occasion when I was working on the set, suddenly there was a brilliant white flash and I wondered what the hell it was it was like daylight in the cockpit I jumped up on the step stuck my head out the astrodome just in time to see a wing sailing past with two engines on it, and the propellers going round. An aircraft had blown up just in front of us, and the skipper pulling back on the stick trying to miss it so we didn’t hit the damn thing, anyway apart from that I think the rest of their trips were fairly quiet .
MC: So, were most of these daytime raids were following the invasion?
AA: That’s right, yeah, I can show you if you like?
MC: So, this is your logbook?
AA: Yeah.
MC: Its very neat!
AA: Yeah, there’s not a lot in it, I think about eight German targets, and the rest were French but as I said they weren’t as easy as they said they were and eventually of course they rescinded that.
MC: So most of them were fairly uneventful, apart from the ones you told me about?
AA: That's right. Yeah.
MC: So, following the operations you did where did you go then …. what did you do then following when you finished your ops?
AA: Well as I said I went down to 17 OTU at Silverstone and was there until I was demobbed in 46.
MC: Yeah, so your first flight obviously was err….
AA: Traumatic!
MC: Traumatic to say the least even though you didn’t meet any enemy action, during your other operations did you come across any other…you must have come across flack?
AA: Well we saw the flack, it didn’t bother me much it was quite interesting in daylight black puffs it looked very harmless you know it didn’t look dangerous at all. That was my air force career yeah.
MC: So, what happened, so then you did, you did your 19 RFS?
AA: After the war I joined the RAF volunteer reserve because I still couldn’t get the RAF feeling that I liked, I loved being in the RAF to be honest so I joined the RAFVR and used to go down at weekends first to Liverpool, at Liverpool and then we were over at Oulton Park the other side of Birkenhead then finished up at Woodvale, Southport flying at weekends then back to work as a civilian on Monday morning, a fortnights camping every year and that was great until it finally packed up in about 1952 I think round about then. So, then I joined Blackpool Gliding club and got a glider pilots licence just to keep flying and then when that packed up the next flying I did was on the back of my son’s microlight. We bought a microlight aircraft between us, he got the pilot’s licence and I just sat in the back flying around Coningsby, again. When the squadron moved across from Coningsby back from Skellingthorpe we were detailed to fly the aircraft but lot of stuff came by road when we landed we were given a dispersal for the aircraft I left my flying boots at the back near the Elsan and when we had lunch and came back to the aircraft my boots had gone so somebody helped himself, I went to the stores to see if I could get a spare pair and he said “What! I can’t let you have any more flying boots what if you don’t come back from an op I will be one pair of boots short”, which I didn’t like the attitude there so I wouldn’t buy them, he said I could get them on the 664b and I could pay for them, so I thought I’m not damn well paying for them. Just as well id done because when I was demobbed I had to pay for them, six guineas I think.
MC: So, you were demobbed in when? When were you demobbed?
AA: In ‘46’ Whitsontide ?
MC: What did you do after the war then?
AA: I went back to my old job for just six months, oh I’ve got a procession of jobs now and then I went to for work for the Associate of British cinemas as an assistant cinema manager, well a trainee to start with I stuck that for a couple of years and then I left there and went, I was married by then with a son and digs were hard to find so when the area manager came to see me , well first of all I was at Barrow in Furness as assistant cinema manager then I was transferred back to my home town of Lancaster then he came in one day and said “we are transferring you to the Regal Rochdale” and I thought well no you’re not, finding digs was difficult, I packed the job in and went to work for the Shell Oil company down at the Heysham Refinery in the materials office and unfortunately after a while there was a clash of personalities between me and the materials superintendent so I left there, got a job managing a shop in Morecambe seaside town selling pottery, glass wear and fancy goods, and looking out the window I saw all these salesmen coming past in their cars and I thought that looks like a good life much more interesting than this. So, when a chap came in selling me paper, wrapping paper and paper bags and things, or trying to I mentioned to him, and he said, “well come and work for me”, so I did and I stuck that for a couple of years. But I soon found out that being a salesman on the road wasn’t as good as it looked it was hard, hard work you’d have a good week one week and you couldn’t go wrong, the week after you couldn’t sell a thing, no it wasn’t good at all. So, I scanned the local paper and saw a job advertised at the North-west electricity board in the offices so I applied and got the job; in fact, I got two jobs at the same time. One was a job at the what was it…. the aircraft factory Lostock near Bolton I’ve forgotten the name of the aircraft now, well anyway that was one job and I also got the North-west electricity job as well. One would have meant changing home again so I stopped in Lancaster and took the electricity board job and I worked there for eight years until I got bored. I worked first of all on the cash desk as a cashier and then debt collecting and doing all sorts of things. Then I moved into the offices because it looked more in my line in the records office but I then found that I only had three day’s work on a five-day week, so for two days I was scratching around with looking for something to do and I soon got bored with that. So I applied again to the civil service and to NAAFI I saw an advert for NAAFI so the civil service said I could be taken on as a temporary employee it would take some time to become permanent but the NAAFI sent me a railway warrant to come down and see them which I did and of course because I’d worked initially in the Coop as a grocer I knew a little bit about it and then I’d managed the shop in Morecambe as a shop manager they offered me a job as a NAAFI shop manager and I asked could I go to Germany and they said yes we can send you to Germany but your wife will have to stay behind because we can’t accommodate her, I said in that case it’s no good to me, so the chap who was interviewing me said, “well would you be interested in going further afield, in which case your wife could join you ?” I said, “well yes I would” my ears pricked up then and he mentioned North Africa so I thought yes that will do for me, so I signed on there and then went back home, gave my notice in to the electricity board and on the appointed date went down to London, London Airport first day with the NAAFI London Airport flying out to North Africa. So, they sent me fortunately to Casto Benito known as RAF Idris. There was a little family shop there on an RAF station which suited me down to the ground I became an honorary member of the Sergeants mess, and I was in my element there was Air Force all around me but I didn’t have to take any orders because I was civilian and that was fine I was there three year, I had a three year contract I came back to the UK in 1964 , sent me on leave and I stayed on leave and the weeks went by and the months went by and I was still on leave but my salary was being paid into the bank so I wasn’t too concerned . Anyway, suddenly one Friday about four months after I’d being home I got a telegram ‘come down and see us’. So, I went down to see them and apparently two of the officials had been going to lunch and one of them had said “by the way what are you doing with Atkinson?” he said, “well he’s abroad isn’t he?”, “no” he said, “he’s at home on leave.” So that sparked the telegram, when I got down they said would I like to go back to Tripoli again this time to take over the main shop in Tripoli centre which dealt with the Embassy, all the Army, RAF units, any ships coming into Tripoli harbour I dealt with them, so I took the job on and I found it was losing £30 a day was this shop I took over, I didn’t like this so I put measures in to put this right, and in no time at all we were making a profit and this was noted at NAAFI headquarters. So, then it was decided that we would pull out of Tripoli altogether close down, the troops were coming home there were to be no units left in North Africa. So I had to close the shop down and reduce all the stock, close it down came back to the UK went to the headquarters in Peel Court in London for an interview and they said we would like you to attend a board which I did, I didn’t know it at the time but it was a commissioning board for what they called ‘Officials of the Corporation’ because when you became an official you had to be commissioned in the Army as well , on the Army reserve so I thought any how that would do me so I was successfully interviewed particularly with my record of making this shop profitable and they sent me for eighteen months training up and down the country various places, I went down to Plymouth for the ships I went to Scotland for bomb exercise I was all over the place learning about NAAFI official duties and eventually I was qualified and was sent to Anglesey. So, I was on Anglesey for eighteen months and then I got a notification they wanted me to Germany to Bielefeld so I was posted across to Bielefeld for three years.
MC: So, did you have a rank then?
AA: Well the thing is I had a road accident on Anglesey, I stopped my car to post a letter walked across the road and came back and saw a heavy lorry coming towards me so I leaned into the back of my car out of its way and put my foot out and it ran over my foot. Anyway, so when the paper came through with my army commission as a Second Lieutenant in the RASC or logistics core as they call it now, I had to send them back, I said I’m sorry but in view of my injury traversing rough terrain is no good to me because I knew that they sent the district managers on exercise with the Army with the acting rank of Captain in Logistics core, I thought well I can’t wander around hopping about like this to see over NAAFI contingent so as I say I sent the paper back and said I’m sorry that’s it so I didn’t get my commission but I was an honorary Second Lieutenant and when I went to Germany I was given Officers quarters and attended officers Messes and that sort of thing but officially I was a civilian. I did three years in Bielefeld, came back to England posted to Lincolnshire cause my wife came from Boston so this was fine, I spent three years here and then was posted again to Germany to Osnabruck for another three years that was fine I enjoyed that, holidays on the continent down to Italy and all over the place and then came back here again and then in 1982 there was a restructuring programme and all district managers of aged sixty or approaching sixty were dispensed with, but it was a pretty good deal they said that…..I was called down to London most surprised to learn that my service was no longer be required after a certain date when I was sixty in September but that I would get a pension from NAAFI based on the assumption that I reached sixty five which was fair enough so I was retired early at sixty and that was it, and I’ve lived in Lincoln ever since .
MC: I’d just like to go back to your earlier days when you did Air Gunnery training at first didn’t you?
AA: Yes.
MC: Did you, you got your…. so, it was your first brevet?
AA: Yeah that was at Stormy Down.
MC: And you got the Air gunnery brevet.
AA: I did.
MC: And what rank did you get there?
AA: Sergeant.
MC: So, you were Sergeant yeah.
AA: Yeah
MC: So, when you did your Wireless operating training, your brevet changed did it?
AA: Err it was still…. I can’t remember when it changed to be sure, but I know it was changed to an S , Signals but air gunner initially.
MC; That’s brilliant Arthur thank you very much for that. This interview was conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre and the interviewer was Mike Connock and the interviewee was Mr Arthur Atkinson the interview took place at Mr Atkinson’s home in Lincoln on the 23rd June 2015.
AA: Syerston for afternoon tea in Hanson’s and then back to work on a Monday morning.
MC: And this was where?
AA: This was in the volunteer reserve from RAF Woodvale, flying Anson’s. It was great. When I was recalled for my aircraft retraining from RAF Ringway, Manchester I went down at ACRC; Aircrew recruiting centre in London for various things one of them of course was a medical and when we had the medical we found that I had a weak left eye so they said “we will have to get you a pair of special goggles with a lens in the left eye”, fair enough, but unfortunately when my Squad was posted on, the goggle hadn’t come back and I had to wait for them so I was kept back one week when I should have been with my original squad. Then my original squad went on and were posted to India on flying boats.
MC: Oh right.
AA: And because I was kept back a week on a different squad, I finished up on Bomber Command, but if I hadn’t finished up on Bomber Command and being posted to Coningsby I wouldn’t have met my wife. [laughs].
MC: Yes, that’s right.
AA: Because one of the first places I went too was the Gliderdrome in Boston dancing. and met her there, and once we’d met we were together for sixty-three years.
MC: Goodness me.
AA: She died in 2007.
MC: So where did you…you obviously went to Coningsby and from Coningsby you moved on to Skellingthorpe?
AA: Skellingthorpe yeah.
MC: That’s where you did the major part of your tour?
AA: I did all my tour at Skellingthorpe yeah.
MC: All your tour at Skellingthorpe yes!
AA: Yes, all the incidents of interest that I can remember on the ground were at Skellingthorpe, apart from losing my flying boots. We had a mid-upper gunner. He was a Canadian and he used to ride around on a bicycle and he finished up, he got bicycles for the whole crew and we all rode around on bicycles, where he got them from we don’t know but he painted his apple green and I was flying, I was riding down to flights one morning with him got to the MP post and the MP pulled him over and asked him where he got his bike from, apple green, he finished up being court martialled but he said he’d been in a pub in Lincoln, he missed the bus back to camp and somebody offered him a bike so he thought better than walking so he said “I bought the bike and cycled back then I found out next morning it was a service bike but I’d paid good money for it so I painted it apple green” and he stuck to it and got away with it. We all in best blues at the court martial ready to give evidence to say what a good bloke he was, including Bob Acott but they only called Bob and the navigator in and he got away with a severe reprimand but they took him off flying while he was under court martial in case he got killed, they could court martial him if he got killed [laughs] but he was a good lad.
MC: So, the skipper and who, who got the awards you say?
AA: Pilot Bob Acott got the DFC, and Trevor Ward, Ken wrote a book about he got the DFC.
MC: Oh yeah, yeah
AA: Oh dear, we told Ken about the episodes when we one a flew across country to Scotland and our flight engineer Bob, Bill Rudd said to Bob, we were at 20,000 feet on across country one of these two cross countries that were before we went on ops, and Bill Rudd said to Bob “Bob, if you get injured when we’re flying over Germany, you know you’re damaged in any way, who’s going to bring the aircraft back?”. Bob said, “well I haven’t given it a lot of thought really.” He said, ‘Well I think I should!’ He was like that Bill was, so Bob said, “all right fair enough, you can if you like.” He said, “in that case I should have a go at flying it, shouldn’t I?” So, Bob Acott policeman steady said, “you’ve got a good point there.” So, the two of them changed seats at 20,000 feet, then the aircraft stalled it just fell out the sky with the flight engineer in the pilot seat, you know the only left-hand control in a Lanc. Oh god, I clipped my chute on, whether this is what finished the navigator I don’t know, he clipped his chute on, I said “which way are we going out”. I said, “well we can’t go out the front because these two silly buggers are trying to change seats again” [laughs]. Of course, in the back of your mind there’s always that instruction ‘you do not leave the aircraft without the Pilots instruction’ but I thought he’s in no position to instruct anyway, every time they got it in a level keel pushing the stick forward, you know, it stalled again and it kept coming down and we were coming down like a falling leaf. Anyway, they finally changed seats then the flight engineer was running up and down the aircraft finding what had gone wrong, when we found out what had gone wrong it was the trimming tabs on the elevator he’d kicked them as they were changing seats again in, up so that…. Oh dear. And Bill Rudd the same flight engineer he had a chop WAAF, he waved to this WAAF every time he took off, then one time he was waving to her, and waving to her stretching his head round to wave to her and his intercom plug came out as we were tearing down the runway, to take off, so when Bob Acott said ‘full power’, nothing happened Bill wasn’t on intercom we had a full bomb load so I heard him say’ full power’ and eventually he took his, he had to leave belting…we just staggered off Doddington Road end. Bill Rudd, another time on importance we were diverted to Ford, or Tranmere as the sea approached the runway instead of putting full flap down, he took flap off and I could swear the props hit the sea, oh that was our flying. This chap was posted to our crew at Winthorpe and we very soon realised a little bit, not very good we said to Bob, we should get rid of him Bob, this chaps not, well somebody’s got to take it. But he’d been thrown out from the previous crew he’d being in, they’d wised him up and got rid of him. Bob Acott wouldn’t
MC: So, you were always having to compensate for him?
AA: He should have got a medal, the Iron Cross, First Class, he did his dam to kill us [laughs] but we even survived Bill Rudd, I hope that’s not on tape.
MC: It is, [laughs]
AA: Oh dear, a bit of a lad. I saw him later on in the war, I’d been down to Boston with the wife because she came from Boston and I was in Lancaster, I’d driven down in the car and on the way back we were diverted through Harrogate that’s where he lived and I thought he was so keen a medal, was Bill he wanted to climb in the wing and put the engine fire out with a fire extinguisher and stuff like that. Anyway, I suddenly saw a big board and it said, ‘W. Rudd Demolition Contractor’ and I thought this is too much of a coincidence, so I took the address and followed it round and there he was in the garden digging his garden with a …talking to a chap at the same time, I said “Hello Bill, how’s it going? “He, looked at me, he didn’t know, he hadn’t a clue who I was till I provided him what had happened, oh dear that was the only time I saw him. But Dougie May our bomb aimer, I suddenly decided Dougie and me got on very well so I suddenly decided I’d like to see him again if I could so I got the telephone directory out and looked through all the names in Birmingham, he lived in Birmingham and the first one I tried it was his wife answered I said “I’m looking for a chap called Douglas May that served in Bomber Command during the war”, she said “yes, my husband did”, I said “well just go and ask if he remembers Acott’s shower” so that’s exactly what she said, and he was back on the phone in two seconds, went down to see him and I had him and his wife staying here in this house when the memorial was opened we went and I’ve got a video of us marching, the first march we ever did when the memorial was opened, but unfortunately he’s died since.
MC: Did you get to see any of the other crew, the skipper and that did you meet up?
AA: No I didn’t unfortunately no, because we all went to different, I was posted to Silverstone, I know Bob Acott went down to Swinderby, Dougie went somewhere in London I don’t know where the hell he went and of course Trevor Bowyer left us after twenty ops because it was his second tour, and I don’t know what happened to the mid-upper, Al Bryant after his court martial because he didn’t fly with us again.
MC: Oh, didn’t he?
AA: No. presumably went back to Canada, but Dougie was the only one that I met.
MC: So where was the skipper from?
AA: The skipper was from London, he was on the Metropolitan Police. Anyway, I never offered you a cup of tea.
MC: Oh no, you are alright thank you. Thanks lovely thank you Arthur.
AA: So that’s all right then!
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Arthur Atkinson
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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AAtkinsonA150623
Creator
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Mike Connock
Date
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2015-06-23
Format
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00:40:54 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
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Pending review
Contributor
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Carmel Dammes
Description
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Arthur Atkinson was born in Lancaster, and worked in the local Co-Op until he joined the Royal Air Force. He trained as a wireless operator and served at RAF Ringway before being posted to RAF Coningsby and later RAF Skellingthorpe with 61 Squadron. His first operation to Stuttgart was a disaster when the compass failed to work and they landed at RAF Westonzoyland. Over all he completed three daylight and 31 night time operations. He met his wife while in Lincolnshire. After he was de-mobbed he continued to travel with the Royal Air Force as a civilian managing Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes. He also continued his love of flying, joining various flying schools and eventually buying a microlight with his son and flying around Coningsby again. Arthur settled in Lincoln after retiring.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Wales
England--Lincolnshire
England--Somerset
Germany--Stuttgart
Wales--Bridgend
61 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
crewing up
Dominie
Navy, Army and Air Force Institute
Proctor
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Coningsby
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Ringway
RAF Silverstone
RAF Skellingthorpe
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Weston Zoyland
RAF Yatesbury
training
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1875/46432/SHarriganD[Ser -DoB]v020002.MP3
8f0b4d650c7579e6eb36621529f41c9b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-06-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire
Description
An account of the resource
34 items. Interviews with veterans recorded by Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire.<br /><br />Interview with Bertie Salvage <br />Three part interview with Dougie Marsh <br />Interview with Terry Hodson <br />Interview with Stan Waite Interview with John Langston<br />Interview with Nelson Nix <br />Two part interview with Bob Panton <br />Interview with Basil Fish <br />Interview with Ernest Groeger <br />Interview with Wilf Keyte <br />Interview with Reginald John Herring <br />Interview with Kathleen Reid <br />Interview with Allan Holmes <br />Interview with John Tomlinson <br />Interview with Cliff Thorpe and Roy Smith <br />Interview with Peter Scoley <br />Interview with Kenneth Ivan Duddell <br />Interview with Christopher Francis Allison <br />Interview with Bernard Bell <br />Interview with George Arthur Bell <br />Interview with George William Taplin <br />Interview with Richard Moore <br />Interview with Kenneth Edgar Neve <br />Interview with Annie Mary Blood <br />Interview with Dennis Brader <br />Interview with Les Stedman <br />Interview with Anthony Edward Mason <br />Interview with Anne Morgan Rose Harcombe<br />
<p>The following interviews have been moved to the relevant collections.<br /><span>Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46454">Kathleen Reid</a></span><br />Interview with Wing Commander <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46467">Kenneth Cook DFC</a><br />Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46456">Colin Cole</a><br />Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/46464">Charles Avey</a><br />Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46470">John Bell</a><br />Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46459">Les Rutherford</a><br />Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46460">James Douglas Hudson</a></p>
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Interviewer: Good morning. I’m Dawn Oakley. Today is the 20th of April 2011. I have with me Anne Harcombe who is going to chat to us for our project, “Shouting the Odds.” Welcome, Anne. Thanks for coming.
AM: Thank you very much. My name is Anne Morgan Rose Harcombe. The Rose was from my first marriage and the Harcombe from my second. I was born in Middlesex in London on the 17th of July 1938. My mother was Welsh and my father English. My father was George Albert Phillips and was born in 1915 in Finchley in London and my mother was Muriel Morgan and was born in Glynneath in South Wales in 1914. She came up to London as a house parlour maid arranged by the local chapel and was put into a household in Highgate and that’s where she met my father who was the fish boy delivering the fish. And he had to be vetted by the lady of the house before he was actually allowed to take my mother out so they were very well looked after. 1938 was not an auspicious year to be born because then we were immediately evacuated when I was six months old down to my grandparents in South Wales because of the threat of the war. I lived in South Wales until I was nine and went to school there but I lived with my grandparents who was Margaret Morgan and my grandfather who was Isaac Morgan and we lived in Glynneath which is a small village between Merthyr Tydfil and Swansea. I went to school there and in my formative years Welsh was spoken in the house and only Welsh. We only spoke English when we had visitors that couldn’t speak Welsh. Going to school we did Welsh and English and because I was an evacuee, in brackets, I had to learn English and Welsh. We had a great time in school and it really was. We were very well looked after. My father went into the Army and he was in the Rifle Brigade and my mother who was with me in South Wales went into a munitions factory in a place called Rhigos which is at the top of the Neath Valley and she made, helped to make shells and bombs and all sorts of things. And one of my aunts, my Auntie Mari she worked with her. I had a younger aunt who was still at school because she was just ten years older than me. My grandfather was a miner and three of my uncles and they were in what was called a Reserved Occupation so they couldn’t join the Army albeit three of them, three of them all tried. They tried the Air Force, the Navy and the Army and were all sent back much to their chagrin. They, they really did want to join up and do their bit but they were told digging coal was their bit and my, as I say my grandfather was a miner as well. Two of my uncles also were in the National Fire Service. So they were called out as volunteers and at the bottom of the road where we lived they had built a brick garage which we had the fire engine was housed there and a man used to sit at the back of the garage in a little room with a telephone. And if they were needed the message used to come to him and then he used to get on his bike and ride all around the village trying to shake up enough to make a crew because a lot of them were working and they worked three shifts. I’ve known my uncles come home from work and go to bed only to be called out again. And in the hall standing of my grandmother’s house their kit used to hang. Their boots with their trousers rolled down over them and all their bits and pieces hanging so that they just stepped into everything and it was pain of death if you touched anything [laughs] But they did a very good job and were called out to Swansea mostly because of bombing the docks there. Where am I? My grandfather had a very large garden so I was always out there with him. He made me a small wooden wheelbarrow and I had my own spade and I used to go and help him dig so that we could plant vegetables. He also used to garden the next door but one garden because the lady there was a widow so he put that down to vegetables as well. So we never went short of vegetables and we were very fortunate because my grandfather had a great friend who had a farm and we used to go up and help with the haymaking and everything else.
Interviewer: How old were you when you were helping [unclear]
AM: Oh, I was about what? Four. Something like that. Three or four. And we used to go up to the farm and help with the haymaking. Any of us who that not working or anything like that because most of the men had gone off or were miners and they were just short of labour. So we used to go up and help on the farm and of course if anything was slaughtered we always used to get our little bit. Our little bit of meat or something like that. So I can’t honestly say that I remember really going without.
Interviewer: No.
AM: As a child, you know we were well fed. Two of my aunts knitted so we were always well clothed. And I think all in all I had a very very happy childhood.
Interviewer: I don’t blame you.
AM: I had one of my uncles, my eldest, no the youngest uncle, my Uncle Ensor on a Monday I used to brush his Sunday suit off and clean his Sunday shoes and put those away and I used to earn sixpence for doing that. And my other uncle, Vivien he smoked a pipe and all his tobacco came as a plug. So, on a Wednesday the newspaper was put on the table and I used to rub all his tobacco and fill his pouch and fill the jar and I used to get sixpence for that. And that was my Saturday morning picture money. It was sixpence to go into the pictures and I had sixpence for sweets and my grandmother used to cut the sweet coupon out of the ration book and give it to me. Well, if you think a sweet coupon was about the size of your thumbnail so I used to have that between my thumb and finger and run across the road to the shop which was called Dick Williams and all the sweets were in jars up on the shelf and you could have whatever you liked. You know, you could have an ounce of this or an ounce of that and you always said when you went in, ‘I’ve got sixpence to spend, Dick,’ and then he used to say, ‘Right, well you can have—', you know [pause] ‘Right. You’ve spent your sixpence.’ And we used to have a mixture of all sorts of things in a triangular bag with a twist on the top of it.
Interviewer: Oh. Yeah.
AM: For us to go to the pictures.
Interviewer: I was going to say did you have a favourite sweetie back then?
AM: I liked Jelly Babies and they used to do a very wicked line in Dolly Mixtures so you know we used to have a mixture of all sorts of things and perhaps a couple of mints thrown in and those little chocolate buttons with the hundreds and thousands on the top of them. We used to have those as well.
Interviewer: Pick and mix.
AM: But, it was. It was early pick and mix.
Interviewer: Yeah.
AM: It really was. And we used to go to Saturday morning pictures where we used to cheer Roy Rogers and all the others and nail biting serial which used to end up with and you had to wait ‘til the following week to find what was going to happen because somebody had just fallen off their horse and was hanging on to the edge of a canyon. But it was, it was great fun and that was Saturday mornings and we used to do that. My grandfather being a miner used to have his coal delivered and they used to get a certain amount of coal a year free. But when it came it used to come in a big lorry and it was just tipped on the pavement so we used to have to take it in. So my grandfather as I say had made me this little wheelbarrow. So from about the age of four I helped fetch the coal in because I used to go out with my wheelbarrow. He used to load it up and then I used to take it down to the coalhouse and tip it on one side because I had the smaller pieces. Then he would bring the bigger pieces in and would make like a wall in the coalhouse and then the smaller pieces were tipped inside it so that it was all kept nice and tidy.
Interviewer: Was that one of your usual chores or did you get paid for –
AM: No. I didn’t get paid for that.
Interviewer: Right.
AM: No. That was just something that had to be done.
Interviewer: You had to.
AM: Yes. I used to help my grandmother on washing day and I can remember she had a dolly which was put into the bath, a tin bath and she, we used to dolly the clothes and then they were put on to the line. And I used to go down and help her and hand the pegs to her while she put the washing out and then when we brought it in then I used to help her to fold it and usually when either my aunt or my mother came home from work whichever shift they were working they would do the ironing. But we all helped at home. We were not allowed to do nothing. We were always found jobs to do no matter how small they were. But my grandmother used to say to me, ‘Go and pick peas.’ And I used to go down to the garden and I knew when I was about five or six I knew how many peas we would need. How many pods of peas we would need to feed us all because my grandparents had seven children. My mother was the second eldest. And of course, when we moved down there my youngest aunt was only ten years older than me and my Uncle Ensor was only thirteen years older than me so they were more like a brother and sister to me than they were aunts and uncles. As I say I went to school there. And when we moved back to London when I was nine and we, I went to Poplar Road School in Morden because my father had come out of the Army and my uncle had a greengrocer’s shop in Middlesex, in Queensbury where I was born and he sold that and bought a shop in Morden and my father went to help him to run it. And then my uncle became paralysed so my father took over and my Uncle Bill stayed at home and did the books and we moved in with him. So we lived with him then albeit he’d had a housekeeper before, Auntie Hilda and she still used to come and do the cleaning. And we moved in with him then and we were there for four, nine, ten, eleven. We were there for three years when my Uncle Bill died. He left the shop to my father but the house had been left to Auntie Hilda so we had to move out. My father by then had found somebody else so he went waltzing off with them and left my mother and I destitute really. We had nowhere to live. She went to the council and they said that the housing was very short supply at that time and we were put into what was called a Rest Centre which was a big church hall that had been divided up in rooms by just plyboard. We were not allowed to take any furniture or anything with us. We had two camp beds and a deal cupboard to put our clothes in. It had a kitchen but no bathroom but it had one of these very large shallow butler sinks which they said the children could be sat in to wash. When we lived in Morden my mother had made a very good friend at the top of the road and she was appalled to think that we were living in such conditions so after school which I was near their house, after school I used to go there and my mother used to come straight because she was a school meals caterer then. She used to come from school to Auntie Claire’s. Auntie Claire was an English teacher. She couldn’t cook to save her life so my mother used to take on all the cooking and a bit of the cleaning and Auntie Claire used to do all the sewing. So we were never short of clothes or anything. We used to buy a piece of material and she would make us a dress.
Interviewer: Brilliant. So did you move in with Auntie Claire?
AM: We didn’t. We stayed at the Rest Centre until they, because they hadn’t got room. They’d got two girls. So we used to go there and we used to leave there by about 7 o’clock.
Interviewer: Right.
AM: At night and get on the bus and go back to Raynes Park where we were then living. And then the council found us a flat which was a house which they had requisitioned because there was just one lady living in it and we had the upstairs of this house as a flat. And then later on they rehoused us in a council flat at South Wimbledon. But it was pretty tough I can tell you at that particular time and my mother felt very guilty that she hadn’t got a home to offer me.
Interviewer: Was she still working?
AM: She was still working. She was working full time and my father gave us three pounds a week housing allowance. Housekeeping allowance which I used to go to the shop to collect when I left school. Then I went and worked for him on a Saturday, Saturday morning and I used to go and work in the shop. On a Friday night we used to take down the old shows of all the vegetables and fruit that had been up on the wall and they would be put then to be sold off cheaply. And we used to put new shows up on a Friday night and then work all day Saturday. And on a Friday straight from school we had a big tank at the back of the shop, a big old tank that had come out of somebody’s house which had running water in it. I used to have to, I think my father was the first people, person that ever washed vegetables and salad before it was sold because he insisted that all the celery was to be scrubbed. So we didn’t sell dirty celery. We sold washed celery. And everything had to be dipped. The lettuces and everything. The tomatoes used to come in in boats and I used to have to sort the tomatoes because we used to have frying, small, medium, and best quality. So four lots of tomatoes used to come out of one boat of tomatoes and I used to have to sort those as well. So my job was the salad really and I used to have to keep that going and we had a chap that had worked for my uncle in Middlesex and he used to come every Saturday to manage the salad part because we used to sell quite a lot. And old Fred, I don’t know how old he was. He must have been quite ancient and he had dreadful arthritis and he used to walk like a penguin really and he used to come on the train. On the tube to Morden and he used to walk down then to the shop and he used to, and he always wanted a cup of tea as soon as he got there. And then I used to make tea for him and take it out to him and he always used to say to me, he used to just drink it straight down, I think he had a cast iron gullet because he always used to say to me, ‘Make it a bit hotter next time, girl.’ But I used to keep him supplied with salad then during the during, during the day and at lunchtime I used to have to go across the road and we had an ABC restaurant across the road and I used to have to go over and find out what was on the menu and come back and tell him because my father used to buy him lunch. So I used to have to run across the road then. Tell him what was on the menu and I used to have to go and do it and every week he had steak and kidney pudding but I still had to go over to see what was on the menu. So I used to go over and get his steak and kidney pudding and I had to cross two roads and bring it back on a tray and he used to sit out the back and eat that and then I used to take the dishes back and come back with either apple pie and custard or something like that for him for his pudding.
Interviewer: How old were you then?
AM: I was about thirteen.
Interviewer: Right. A teenager.
AM: And then, so that was sort of the shop really there. Then when I left school at fifteen I wanted to be a florist. I’d always wanted to be a florist. I always wanted to be a lady that worked in a flower shop. So my grandmother had a dresser and I used to keep it full of wildflowers and she had paste pots and jam jars and everything and I always used to keep that filled from when I was quite a small, small child really. So I always wanted to be a florist and we had careers officers that come into the school by then and they were not terribly helpful because all they wanted to do was to push all the girls into office work and I said, ‘No. I want to be a florist. So we, we tried and they were not helpful so I thought right I’m going to go out and get my own job. So, I went out and tried various places and then I went with my mother one day to Victoria. On the train to Victoria Street and there was a lovely catering shop there and she’d got a special wedding on and she wanted to go and get some cutters. So as we came out of the station I saw Moyses Stevens Florist which had water all running down the inside of the window and I said to her, ‘Oh, I wonder if they’ve got a job.’ So I went in and she went down to her shop and I went in there. I was sort of about I suppose about four foot six. Pulled myself up to my full height and this lady came and said, ‘May I help you?’ And I said, ‘I’d like to see the manager please.’ And she said, ‘Oh. What is it about?’ And I said, ‘Well, I wondered if you needed an apprentice.’ So, this gentleman duly arrived in his striped trousers and frock coat. He was the manager of the shop and spoke to me for a little while and then said, ‘Are you on your own?’ And I said, ‘No. My mother is just down the road.’ So he said, ‘Well when she comes back,’ he said, ‘I’ll interview you.’ So he interviewed me and he said yes. He would give me a job as an apprentice but we would have to pay. Well, as my mother said that was totally out of the question because she was the only breadwinner and there was no way that we could pay for an apprenticeship. So he said, ‘Well, leave it with me and I’ll see what I can do.’ So a week later we got a letter from him to say that I had got my apprenticeship and the date I was to start and that it was being paid by the Worshipful Company of Gardeners from the City of London and they were sponsoring me. So I had my five year apprenticeship. I had two years as a junior and three years as an improver and then when I finished there I went to the West End of London an I did contract work and I did shops and hotels and offices. We used to do the arrangements on a Saturday in the shop because we could get market on a Saturday morning and then they were all taken out on a Monday morning on the van and deposited in various places. I used to do Dolcis in Oxford Street which was on three floors and there were fourteen arrangements there. Then I used to go around the back to Stratford Court Hotel and I had six arrangements to do there. And then I used to go to Burroughs Adding Machine and there was one large arrangement there and that was on one of these seats. I don’t know if you remember them that were completely round and padded in velvet and the arrangement was on the top in the middle and I used to take my shoes off. But the lady who we nicknamed the dragon used to come rushing out with a piece of newspaper to put on the seat for us to stand on in case we had dirty stockings. But I used to do that and then go back to the shop and we used to write up what was in each arrangement and what colouring it was so that we knew what spares we had to take and what colour. And I had a trug basket which was about three foot long and about a foot and a half, about a foot and a half wide which was made of wood that I used to have to carry around with all my flowers in. I had a metal watering can as well that I used to have to take plus my scissors and secateurs and I used to have to walk and I did that for two years. I used to have when I finished at Burroughs’s I used to go back to the shop and have my cup of coffee but at the Stratford Court Hotel I was always, I used to work just off the kitchen and I was always given breakfast and the chef always used to say, ‘What would you like, Anne? And I used to say oh whatever.’ And he used to say, ‘Oh, the smoked salmon and scrambled egg is a bit slow today.’ And I used to say, ‘Oh well, I’ll have that.’ You know. As if it was –
Interviewer: Brilliant.
AM: You know. Such a hardship.
Interviewer: Yeah.
AM: But I used to have breakfast there and I used to have to work underneath the staircase with a table which was a flap that used to come down and I used to have to tuck myself underneath this staircase to work. But and then I used to have my, fill my basket again and I used to go out and I used to do Cinephone which was the cinema opposite Selfridges and I’d do three arrangements there. One of them was in the manager’s office and I hated doing that because he was a bottom pincher and at that time you know we didn’t have equal rights and all this sort of thing and so I used to say to the young man when I went in, ‘Is he in?’ If he wasn’t in I would dash in and do that one first and then do the two upstairs. But if he was in I’d just had to run the gauntlet you know. And I used to sort of move around the room so that he couldn’t get but invariably he used to pinch my bottom before I left. And I can remember saying to my boss who was a German about this thinking that he would do something about it and all he said to me was, ‘Well, I’m sorry. I can’t do anything about it because he pays his bills.’ So I just had to put up with it.
Interviewer: Yeah. Put up –
AM: I used to have my lunch then and then in the afternoon I used to go and decorate in the American Embassy and then I used to do Marcelles the furrier which was in Bond Street.
Interviewer: Oh.
AM: And then I used to go back to the shop. I used to start at half past seven in the morning and I’d go back to the shop when I’d finished and if it was before half past four I used to have to work in the workroom until it was half past four. Then I could go home. So in actual fact it worked out quite well because I was in front and, of the rush hour going to work and coming home and I used to, we lived at Morden and I used to get the tube from Morden then to Tottenham Court Road and change then to Bond Street. But I did that for two years and got a bit fed up with it. And then I was offered a job in the same company but working in the on the Exhibition Team. So then I went and did venues outside. We used to decorate places like the Albert Hall, Farnborough Air Show. We used to go every year to the British Industries Fair in Birmingham. We used to go twice a year to France to decorate for Ford’s. We used to do the Covent Garden when the Queen was going to be there. I’ve made wedding, I’ve made bouquets for all the royal family. All the royal ladies.
Interviewer: Oh.
AM: At one time or another. And I did that for two years and my partner because we worked in twos was a young man and then when I married my husband didn’t really appreciate me [recketing] around the country with an unmarried man. So I packed the job up and came local again and managed a shop. Then I had my son so I didn’t work for a year and then I got him into a nursery because we lived in a flat. I got him into a nursery school and I went back to work part time.
Interviewer: What did your husband do?
AM: He was an engineer. He worked for Osram’s as it was then.
Interviewer: Oh right.
AM: And he used to cut the big gears that were used in large pieces of machinery like dams and things like that. Very precision work. And so then I went back to work again then and then after we’d, I’d had worked there for a few years I opened my own business in Roehampton which was near Putney. Between Putney and Kingston and I opened my own florist business there and which I had for sixteen years. My husband had a heart attack. He was older than me. He was fifteen years older than me and he had a heart attack and died when I was forty.
Interviewer: Oh dear.
AM: And I was left with the business and everything else.
Interviewer: How old was your son at this time?
AM: He was eighteen. And then we, we struggled on. We carried on.
Interviewer: As you do.
AM: As you do. But I had a very great friend who was my Interflora field officer and he used to visit the shop every couple, every three months to make sure we were alright and everything and I was on the committee for Interflora District 1 and Chris used to pick me up because he was passing to take me up to the meetings in London and take me home again. He was divorced from his wife and we got together.
Interviewer: Oh, how lovely.
AM: I’d know Chris for twelve years so it was like an old, like marrying an old friend.
Interviewer: Yeah.
AM: It was really.
Interviewer: Oh, that’s nice.
AM: It really was. It was wonderful. Then Interflora offered him a job in Lincolnshire, in Sleaford so we moved up then and he took over and managed the Training Department there. I sold the business and we moved up and I was at a loose end and had nothing to do so I started tutoring for Interflora. We used to do schools. Weekend schools. And I used to go off to Scotland or Ireland or we used to have one at Knutsford. We had one at, near Beamish Hall. We used to go to Bobby Shaftoe’s house there.
Interviewer: Oh.
AM: Which had been turned into a school and we used to go there and we used to tutor girls and we did different courses. We used to have girls that would, or boys who had just come into the business. So we used to take them so that by the time they went back to their shops they could address a customer, take a cheque, take money, give change, make a cellophane gift wrap, make a buttonhole. So they were becoming a useful member of staff. So we used to have a three day school then. Then we did sympathy work for funerals. We did wedding courses. We did all sorts of things. Gift courses and everything. And then I became an assessor for, for Interflora as well when people did examinations. And then I decided that I was away a lot and really didn’t want to be away that much so I decided I would go to Riseholme College near Lincoln and see if they wanted someone to teach in their Floristry Department. And of course, the first thing I was asked was have you got a piece of paper? And I said, ‘No. I’m sorry I haven’t got a piece of paper. But I have forty two years experience.’ But I was told that no I couldn’t have a job because I hadn’t got a piece of paper. I hadn’t got a teaching degree. I hadn’t got a piece of paper to say that I was a florist. So I came back and I said to Chris, I said, ‘I’m really miffed about this.’ So he said, ‘Well, go and do a course.’ So he found out for me and I went to Monks Road and I did a Teacher Training Course which was hilarious in itself because there were about twenty of us in this room all from different backgrounds. We all did different jobs. We had hairdressers, firemen, we had all sorts of people and the lady that I palled up with she came from Lincoln Hospital and she was an incontinence nurse. So we were all very diverse and we had two tutors and the first day we were there we just fell about because we had this lady to teach us and she was a psychologist. And she came and she said, ‘Right, today’s lesson is going to be communication. How to communicate with people.’ So she started off and all we had were all these abbreviated letters for things. Well, we didn’t know what she was talking about, you know. Instead of saying the Royal Air Force she would say the RAF. Well, you know in other contexts we didn’t know what she was talking about. Well, this went on for about a quarter of an hour and we were all looking at each other and all shrugging our shoulders and I said to Joan, this lady from Lincoln hospital, ‘I’ve had enough of this.’ So, I put my hand up and she said, ‘Yes.’ And I said, ‘Are we supposed to be communicating?’ And she said, ‘Well, yes.’ And I said, ‘Well, I’m afraid we’re not.’ And she was quite shocked and I said to her, ‘You’re using all these abbreviations. We haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.’ I said, ‘Had you written them all down on a piece of paper and we’d had that given to us.’ I said, ‘Well then, we could look it up and find out what you were talking about. But as it is now we have no idea what you’re talking about.’ And she said, ‘Oh, dear.’ She said, ‘I haven’t prepared this very well, have I?’ And I said, ‘No. I’m afraid you haven’t.’ So that was the end of that lesson. But we muddled through and I did get my Teacher Training Certificate and I went back to Riseholme and I said, ‘I’ve got my piece of paper.’ And they said, ‘Oh, well we can offer you one morning a week.’ So I said, ‘Oh, I don’t think so.’ So I said –
Interviewer: A long way to go, isn’t it?
AM: I said to Chris, ‘I need something to do.’ So I bought another shop. I bought a shop in Ruskington and it was a florist shop and I revamped it. My son and Chris stood inside the door and they said, ‘What do you want to do?’ And I said, ‘Gut it.’ So we gutted it all out. We redecorated it. We revamped it and we opened and I had that for nine years.
Interviewer: As a florist.
AM: As a florist. Yes. Chris retired and said, ‘Are you retiring?’ And I said, ‘No, I’ll give it another year.’ And then I retired, and unfortunately in 2000 he was diagnosed with prostate cancer and I’m afraid I lost him in 2011. No. Sorry 2009. So, I’m now moving on with my life. I belong to a Flower Club. Woodhall Spa Flower Club. And I did when I twenty five years ago I joined Sleaford Flower Club and I became a demonstrator for Flower Clubs and I used to travel all around the place. Our area covered from Sheffield down to Stamford and from the coast into the Peak District to Matlock.
Interviewer: Oh.
AM: And I used to visit all the different Clubs and do floral demonstrations and, and that was great. I used to thoroughly enjoy that and when Chris retired he used to drive me and we used to have a great time. But I did it for fifteen years and then decided that, that I’d had enough and I really didn’t, didn’t want to do any more. So having done fifteen years for them I retired. But I’m still working. I still do weddings for people. People that, I had a lady ring me up a couple, last well a couple of weeks ago and she has got four daughters and the fourth one is now getting married and, ‘Will you do the flowers because you’ve done the other three.’ So at seventy two I’m still battling on.
Interviewer: That’s lovely.
AM: I’m still working. The body is weakening but the mind is only thirty and I have to keep telling myself now slow down a little bit because you’re not thirty. But I do go and on a Monday morning I do a Zumba class. I’m trying to lose some weight with Weight Watchers and all in all I lead a very active life. My son lives in Louth. He moved up and lives in Louth. I have a grandson, Joshua. He lives in Sleaford with his mum and he is just preparing now and trying to get himself in to the RAF. He’s been an Air Cadet for three years and he’s just gone up for promotion. He’s got his masters, he’s a Master Cadet so he’s got his lanyard and he’s had an interview last Monday now to try and get promotion. So I’m hoping that he will get it because he desperately wants to go into the RAF as an aircraft mechanic. So I think I filled you in quite a bit with my bits and pieces.
Interviewer: That’s very interesting.
AM: I go to Cranwell to church who are a brilliant lot there and I thoroughly enjoy going to church because we have such an hilarious time and as I say I have lots of friends and I do live a very active life. I hope this will be interesting to somebody.
Interviewer: Well, I found it very interesting.
AM: Good.
Interviewer: Thank you very much, Anne.
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Interview with Anne Morgan Rose Harcombe
1001-Harcombe, Anne Morgan Rose-Cranwell Aviation
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SHarriganD[Ser#-DoB]v02
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Dawn Oakley
This Interview was recorded by Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire.
Date
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2011-04-20
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eng
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00:38:47 audio recording
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Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
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Anne Morgan Rose Harcombe was born in London in 1938 and was evacuated with her mother at the start of the war to live with her mother’s family in South Wales
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Great Britain
England--London
Wales
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Julie Williams
childhood in wartime
evacuation
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/564/8832/PEmlynJonesA1601.1.jpg
5a87ab19fbe21121173bd90fd1d7fd8e
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/564/8832/AEmlynJonesA161012.1.mp3
bc8126645f0b2316e1d629a80b2452f6
Dublin Core
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Emlyn-Jones, Alun
A Emlyn-Jones
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EmlynJones, A
Description
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An oral history interview with Alun Emlyn-Jones (Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 51 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2016-10-12
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Anne Roberts, the interviewee is Alun Emlyn-Jones. The interview is taking place at Mr Emlyn-Jones’s home in Cardiff, in Wales on the 12th of October 2016.
AR: Thank you Alun for agreeing to talk to me today.
AEJ: My pleasure.
AR: Also present at the interview is Julie Emlyn-Jones, Alun’s wife.
AEJ: That’s right.
AR: So Alun, could you tell me something about your early life?
AEJ: My early life? Well I was brought up in Cardiff, my parents - I was one of two children, my sister was six years older than me and I was the second one and I spent all my early life here really. Then at the age of ten I was sent away to school, I was banished to England for my education. I was very unhappy at school, it was a very difficult time for me, it was just emotional. I was a home boy, I wanted to stay at home I didn’t really want to go but I went to Summer Fields in Oxford to start with and that’s in my book under the title ‘Nightmare’ [laughing] and then I went on to Charterhouse, which was easier. And then, heaven knows what might have happened, I might have gone on to university and so on I suppose, but as a matter of fact I don’t think I was all that scholastically brilliant because I wasn’t working as much as I should have, but the war came to make my decision for me. So I was able then, my parents let me come home waiting for whatever should happen. When it came to, as you know if you volunteered, even if for a short while before you would have been called up you got the privilege of putting down preferences of where you would go, and I must say I wasn’t directed by anything more noble than the fact that I didn’t really want to slog through muddy trenches, so I decided on, you had to put one for each service. So I put my priority as aircrew in Bomber Command, my second one was the submarines and my one for the Army was in tanks, so the idea was that I was going to be carried wherever I was going [laughter] and in due course I was given my first choice and I went to Penarth, I’ve skipped a lot of my youth I’m afraid, went to Penarth to start training there. I’ve skipped a lot, you want to know more about my youth of course.
AR: No, whatever you want to tell us, it’s fine. So your training was in Penarth?
AEJ: We started our initial training, well we started, we met in Penarth before we were sent out to our stations, you know. We went to various places, all over the place. I spent a lot of time training in South Africa, went out on a troop ship, it took six weeks out and six weeks back, incredible, and did my training in a place called East London in South Africa and then came back in due course.
AR: And what did the training entail Alun?
AEJ: Well I suppose we did a lot of flying, Ansons and aircraft like that and then we graduated I think to Whitleys and it was on Whitleys that I was flying with my first crew at the conversion unit. At that point, at the conversion unit we moved to Halifax, the Halifax which we were going to fly during operations. And that’s what we did, so we flew in the Halifax on a regular basis from RAF Rufforth on the flat plain of York and then one day, my crew, well I had my appendix out, that was a very important thing for me. I had an appendix attack. I was able to get home, or it happened somewhere where I could be at home and I had my appendix attack and I had my appendix out in a local nursing home in Cardiff. I wrote to my skipper Stanley Bright ‘I do worry about one thing’ I said, ‘because this has caused me to leave you now and you may not be able to wait for me’. He said ‘don’t worry a bit, the weather’s clamped, we’re doing very little flying, you’re going to be back in a few weeks and that’ll be fine’ And that was the last I heard of him, from him. They were flying from Rufforth on one of their training trips, conversion trips while I had my appendix, they had taken off but they were In, I think, 10/10ths cloud and they were doing simply something like, a simple exercise, I think something like circuits and bumps, you know landing, taking off, landing, taking off, all that sort of thing and I think they got slightly off track in this dense cloud and didn’t realise, because we didn’t have the sophistication with radar that they have now and didn’t realise that the hill, called Garrowby Hill was between them and the ground and they flew into the hill. They killed a passing truck driver and the plane hit the road near Cot Nab Farm, top of Garrowby Hill and disintegrated in the fields and they were all killed. So suddenly I was left, an odd bod with no crew and ah, had to wait to see what would happen. But of course that caused quite a lot of delay in when I started flying and so on as you can see from my logbook, and eventually I was adopted by a crew whose bomb aimer had been taken, borrowed by another crew, and when he was borrowed he was killed. So they ended up as a crew without a bomb aimer and I was a bomb aimer without a crew and they asked me if I would like to join them which of course I was, I was delighted to because that period of just hanging about, just going wandering about the station, not belonging to anybody was a very difficult time, a very, very difficult time. What I couldn’t understand was the attitude of the, I don’t know who he was, one of the senior officers. I couldn’t understand his sort of antagonism to me. He just interviewed me and wanted to know what I was doing and things like that, and then he said ‘get out’. I couldn’t understand that but later, I think I saw that he had been unaware of me not being killed at the time and included me in the list of those who had died that day and I think that he was feeling guilty about that and took it out on me. There was no other reason, I had no personal contact with him that otherwise could have caused that but that made me feel even more isolated really and I just wandered round very lonely and hopeless for quite a while until my new crew adopted me.
AR: And then you flew a number of missions?
AEJ: Well first of all we had a lovely pilot, he was a great guy, Danny and he’d done 13 ops and crashed with a full bomb load. He broke his back and he’d nevertheless come back to flying again and he adopted us and I had great admiration for him, I think we all did. But I of course, as a bomb aimer it was only over the target that I was in charge really and the rest of the time I did odd jobs. I was assistant pilot, I was assistant navigator and all the bits and pieces that went with it, you know helping the wireless operator and anything they could find for an odd job man really. I used to sit next to Danny on take off and as he pulled the heavy aircraft off the ground he would come out in an absolute sweat and I knew he was in pain. After he’d done six or seven ops or whatever it was, one day we were actually out on the dispersal point waiting to take off and he called us together and he said ‘it’s no good I can’t fly, my back is playing up so badly I’ll kill us all’. And I just said to him, because I thought it would be true, ‘don’t worry Danny they’ll understand’. Well they didn’t. The Wing Commander came out in his Hillman and he treated Danny as though Danny was a traitor of some sort. It was dreadful. He said ‘King get into my car’ and then he turned to us and he said ‘I’m sorry your pilot is LMF - lacking in moral fibre’. I thought that was terribly cruel and we asked if we could have an interview with the Wing Commander, which he granted and I was the spokesman and I went in on behalf of the others, with them, and said ‘we want you to know sir that we have great admiration for Flying Officer King and I told him about his broken back, he ought to have known that from the records, and how he’d carried on despite that and how I could see how much pain it gave him when pulling the aircraft back and that in the end he decided that to save us all, he wouldn’t fly. He said ‘your comments are noted gentlemen’ and that was that. Danny was banished from the airfield and we never saw him again.
AR: How did that make you feel, you and your other crew members?
AEJ: Oh very badly about that, very badly. Then my third pilot came into it and took us over and we went on eventually and completed our tour. Well actually they did the full 30 ops and because I had missed one, the one they were on, actually the first one that I’d missed was the Nuremberg trip where we lost more aircraft than any other raid. Because I’d missed that I was officially granted my tour on 29 ops, that was that. That was how that ended and then I got on to Transport Command and so on and I was [emphasis] going to be posted to Japan and that really frightened me. I’d heard such awful stories about prisoners of war in Japan and I thought that was going to be dreadful and I said to then Wing Commander, I don’t know if it was the same one or not, ‘I wonder if I could have a training job of some sort for a while?’. He said ‘you ought to be honoured to be chosen for Japan’. I could have done without the honour. Anyway, the awful thing, but nevertheless, it saved my bacon, what was it, the atom bomb? Yes the atom bomb, because of that the war became over, the war with Japan finished and thankfully for me, I was saved the task of going out there. Then I went on to Transport Command and did various things and I flew quite a lot really but that was the end of my active [unclear]
AR: Where were you in the transport corps Alun?
AEJ: I can’t remember but I’ve got it in my logbook which is there. Yes I’ll have to look it up.
AR: After the war finished, what did you do then?
AEJ: Well, I had been, before the war, before I got called up, working with a little firm called Copy [unclear] Ltd at Treforest Trading Estate, near here, where we made carbon paper and typewriter ribbons. Before the war, as a young man I was pressing green buttons to make a machine go, red buttons to stop it, and things like that and when I came back they said ‘you’d better go in the sales department’, so I spent a lot of time writing sales letters. Which suited me because I like writing so that suited me very well. What was I going to say now, I’ve forgotten.
AR: Well you were talking to me about after the war. Tell me when you did all the work to create a memorial to your crew at Garrowby Hill.
AEJ: Yes, that’s the memorial there. We go up every year. Julie was able to take the service, bless her, as a, what is it for your church, you are a?
JEJ: That’s not part of it.
AEJ: I wanted to say it.
JEJ: I’m an elder.
AEJ: That’s it - I can’t remember things. She’s an elder at the church, so she is able to take the service, which she does wonderfully and we have, very often, and we’re hoping for the same number this time, about 40 people gathered on the hilltop for that occasion. So we do that every year on Armistice Sunday.
AR: And it was you who got the memorial put up?
AEJ: We did, we arranged that, or I did I suppose, well we both did, didn’t we? Yes we both did. We arranged it. We got very friendly with the people who did it, they did a lovely job as you will see. We’ve got the aircraft on the top and it’s a beautiful memorial. They come every time, the people who made it and I think he’s very proud of it and we’re very proud of what he did, it was a great job. That’s what we do every Armistice Sunday. We’ve done, how many? Huge number. A very big number anyway of these, for years and years and years.
AR: And you still keep in touch with - ?
AEJ: It was the seventieth we stopped at, no that was something else wasn’t it?
JEJ: Yes.
AR: And you’ve kept in touch until recently with your old colleagues from the war?
AEJ: I suppose I haven’t really. I’ve lost contact now.
AR: Alan can you tell me about going up to see the memorial and how you feel about Bomber Command being recognised now?
AEJ: Oh very thrilled, very thrilled, yes. Of course we had a lot of fighter boys here and they turned the tables really at that vital moment, but all the boys at St Athans were in fact killed. Every one that we knew, we knew well. My sister was a very attractive girl, and very vivacious, and she had a circle of friends wherever we went and she knew a lot of the pilots. We used to go and stay locally at Porthcawl at the Seabank Hotel and a lot of the pilots from Battle of Britain were there and they all died, sadly. But I think I’m wrong about not having any contact with my crew but my memory, it’s been shot to pieces. [pause] Nobby, Wilf, Geoff Taverner, yes. My bombing leader, Geoff Taverner, he lives in Newport so although we didn’t fly together, he was the bombing leader for my 51 Squadron and I see him quite regularly. He got the DFC actually. And I, incidentally, have just been awarded the medal Chevalier de la Legion D’honneur because quite a lot of my trips were in support of the French and a friend of mine over there, [unclear] Thomas, he said ‘you really ought to apply for the Chevalier Award because I’m sure, knowing your record that you would qualify’. And I did and I was. And Geoff as well, Geoff Taverner. We had a very moving occasion in Cardiff for that. It was rather lovely and the family were able to be there and it was fantastic really.
AR: Congratulations, that’s wonderful.
AEJ: It’s a nice title to have. It’s a wonderful medal, very, very handsome.
AR: That’s lovely to hear. So after the war Alun, life continued and you were working in Cardiff?
AEJ: That’s right and then I got to feel that, it was pure chance really. I wanted to help the people. Because there was a tendency to have a drink problem in my family, on my mother’s side, one of my uncles had a problem and my sister and I both inherited it. And I thought, when I heard about this job, an organisation was being formed in Cardiff, the Council on Alcoholism, if I could get in on that I would be able to help others as well as myself. I applied. My sister, however continued to drink although she was married and she had two children and a loyal husband and she didn’t mean to do these things but she couldn’t stop, you know. She was wonderfully talented, a very gifted and bright girl who drove cars at great speed. She was a tremendous character but she couldn’t quite come to terms with this and I was worried about her and it was because of her, as much as anything, that I thought if I join, if I get in on this job, I’ll learn enough to help her properly and she died the very day I was appointed. But I was appointed, and having put my shoulder to the wheel, as it were, I thought that’s what I’ll continue to do and it became my life’s work. I built up a hostel for people with the problem in Cardiff, Dyfrig House and then moved on and did Emlyn House in Newport. And then we moved on, out into the nearby valleys and did a third one, the Brynnal [?] and then my daughters, two of my four daughters, decided that this was for them so they came in, Rhoda and Lucy and played their very significant role and Lucy became the Director of the Gwent Alcohol Project and Rhoda was in charge of the Community Alcohol and Drugs Team and so we made it a family business [laughter] .
AR: That’s wonderful.
AEJ: I think over the years we were able to help quite a lot of people. The hostel in Cardiff for example, Dyfrig House, we had a Day Centre and a workshop, we had crafts that people could make and all sorts of things as well as having accommodation and support, so there was a lot happening.
AR: Wonderful. Is there anything else Alun you can remember about your - going back to the RAF, your time in Bomber Command, anything else you would like to tell us about what it was like to fly on the Halifaxes?
AEJ: Well I liked the Halifax. The Halifax of course was overshadowed a bit by the Lancaster, in the same way really as the Spitfire outshone the Hurricane. The Hurricane did a very fine job nevertheless and the same applied to the Halifax. It was eclipsed by the glamour of the Lancaster. But I liked it, on a practical basis it had much more room inside so you could move around more easily. Also, which I think is a very important point, it was easier to bail out of [laughter] . It was a good sturdy workhorse and I got very fond of it yes. It just didn’t get the glamour and people always think of Lancasters, they don’t think of Halifaxes. Of course before that, there was the Stirling, after the two-engined ones. I didn’t fly in those, I think I got one trip once but not an operational trip and of course before that we were on Whitleys. We were flying Whitleys. Yes I liked the Halifax very much indeed. I enjoyed flying actually. I mean compared with my friends who are in civilian airlines who drew thousands and thousands and thousands of hours, the whole war I think my total was seven hundred and fifty but seven hundred and fifty hours we packed a lot of stuff into it. I find it such a privilege really to work with crews like that. We became great friends, that’s the thing, it wasn’t just that we were working together, we became great friends. You know we went out together as well and met socially when we could. Oh it was tremendous comradeship. I deem myself very fortunate indeed to have had that opportunity and of course to have survived because the expectation of life was only six weeks, and so to have survived was extraordinary good fortune. We were losing boys all the time. You know, ‘so and so bought it’ that was the expression, ‘so and so bought it’ so you know one of the people we knew well hadn’t come back, they had crashed or been shot down. I mean on one daylight (sortie) I remember seeing lots of aircraft going down. Later, this particular man, lives in Cardiff so I see him quite often because I’ve got a group called 51 Squadron and Friends. The group meets quite regularly and I saw this aircraft just below me, being shot down and it turned out to be his so I was able to tell him I’d actually seen him shot down. He was then captured by the Germans but they treated him with respect. Another of my friends who was shot down in the First War was put into Pfaffenwald which was dreadful and he had a dreadful time there but then the Luftwaffe itself said ‘you shouldn’t have this man there, he should be in a proper prison, so he was transferred, that surely saved his life although he died young in the end, but that was a separate matter. But er, yes there was great comradeship. I’ve rambled on enough I think.
AR: Not at all, it’s been fascinating.
AEJ: Thank you so much.
AR: No thank you, thank you Alun very much for giving us the time.
AEJ: It’s was my pleasure. I just wonder how many things I’ve missed out.
AR: Alun we’re going to carry on now. Can you tell me a little bit about your nickname?
AEJ: Actually of course so many of my compatriots from Wales were called Taffy and I suppose I would have been but in fact Grem fitted in very well and I got called Grem all the way through my Air Force career. That’s because it’s short for Gremlin and Gremlin was the little creature who used to disturb our instruments in the aircraft, imaginary one I need hardly say [laughter] . It was short for that and it also rhymes with my name Emlyn, Alun Emlyn. So for those two reasons I got called Grem and enjoyed that nickname and I’m still called Grem by some people. Geoff Taverner my colleague and one time bombing leader from Newport, he still calls me Grem for example, so it’s very nice to have that.
AR: And animals played an important part for you.
AEJ: Yes, well when we were stationed at one place I picked up a goat, a little goat. He was a dear little thing and he used to live in my billet and used to greet me with licking my face at night and things like that but then he got bigger and bigger and bigger and I had to think of something to do with him so we asked a local farmer if he, no we didn’t, we found a spot at a water tower in the village and he would have shelter and he was on a long lead and we had him there for quite a while and then one time he got away from his lead and went all round the village eating the tops off people’s plants. That became rather unpopular so I gave him to the local farmer on the strict [emphasis] understanding he would be used for breeding and not be killed. So I hope that’s what happened, I hope he had a happy life. Then we had our dog, Jimmy, I picked Jimmy up somehow and Jimmy sort of lived constantly with us and was a great guy. I can’t remember what happened to Jimmy in the end.
AR: Did Jimmy wait for you when you came back from - ?
AEJ: Yes Jimmy used to be there. Wherever we’d been and wherever he’d been in the meantime , he was always waiting on the tarmac when we got back and he lived in my billet with me. So we had a bit of a menagerie really. I can’t remember what happened to Jimmy, pity we can’t ask [laughter]. So there we are and of course when we searched for the spot to put the memorial for the first crew at Garrowby Hill, a lot of research went into that. We had a local archivist, he worked very hard at it all. We met a girl, a woman then, as a girl she’d been stationed in that area where the crash took place and through personal contact we were able to be sure [emphasis] that where we put the memorial was exactly where the crash took place, so that was very helpful. But the trouble is Anne now, for me is that my memory is shot to pieces and I can’t remember clearly. I can’t , even though a few moments ago I had it clearly in my mind I can’t remember everything that I was told unless I wrote it down.
AR: Thank you Alun, what you’ve been able to tell us has been marvellous.
AEJ: Well you’ve been very kind and I’ve know it’s not been adequate.
AR: It’s been wonderful and it will be a great addition to the archive. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Alun Emlyn-Jones
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Anne Roberts
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-12
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AEmlynJonesA161012, PEmlynJonesA1601
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Format
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00:34:11 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Alun Emlyn-Jones (known as Grem among his RAF colleagues) was raised in Cardiff and attended boarding schools in Oxfordshire. He worked manufacturing office supplies when he volunteered to serve in Bomber Command, hoping to avoid being called up to the infantry. Alun trained in Penarth and in East London, South Africa, and then worked as a bomb aimer.
Alun talks of flying on the Anson and Whitley, and of being assigned to a Halifax crew. He describes a training flight accident at Garrowby Hill, Yorkshire in which his crewmates were killed. Alun, who was hospitalised at the time, was not on board the aircraft. He recalls his loneliness at being without a crew, and the unexplained animosity towards him from a senior officer. He talks of joining another aircrew and of adaptability being a part of the role of the bomb aimer, before reflecting on his feelings about the unjust dismissal of the crew’s pilot for lack of moral fibre.
Alun recalls his transfer to RAF Transport Command in 1945 and talks of organising the erection of a memorial to his crew at Garrowby Hill. He mentions his pride at the memorial, and his attendance at annual commemorations there for many years. He goes on to reflect on his preference for the Halifax over other aircraft, his enjoyment of flying, and on the great friendship and comradeship among aircrews, describing a closeness which continued after the war. He also mentions his affection for the animals that he kept in his billet during the war.
Alun relates that he first returned to his pre-war job after the war, but later joined the Welsh Council on Alcoholism to help others and in support of his sister, whom he describes affectionately.
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1955
Contributor
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Leah Warriner-Wood
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Wales
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Wales--Porthcawl
Wales--Newport
South Africa
South Africa--East London
Germany
Germany--Nuremberg
Japan
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Penarth
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
51 Squadron
aircrew
animal
Anson
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
crash
Distinguished Flying Cross
gremlin
Halifax
Hurricane
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
memorial
military ethos
military service conditions
pilot
radar
RAF Rufforth
RAF St Athan
Spitfire
Stirling
training
Whitley
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/262/3410/AGouldAG160708.2.mp3
73437c87dfac06a7e6749cfe5ed84141
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Gould, Allen
Allen G Gould
Allen Gould
A G Gould
A Gould
Description
An account of the resource
Twenty-seven items. Concerns Allen Geoffrey Gould (b. 1923, 1605203 Royal Air Force). He completed a tour of operations as a flight engineer with 620 Squadron and the Special Operations Executive. Collection consists of an oral history interview, his log book, flight engineer course notebooks, pilot's and engineers handling notes, mention in London Gazette, official documents and photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Allen Geoffrey Gould and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-08
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Gould, AG
Requires
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Sgt. Allen G. Gould – 1605203, was born in 1923, after leaving school in Bournemouth at 13, he worked for the Danish Bacon Company until being called up in 1943. Choosing to join the RAF, initially wanting to be a Navigator, he ended up as a Flight Engineer, flying in the Short Stirling Mk. I, II, III and IV variants. Training at RAF St. Alban, then the Heavy Conversion Unit. Allen joined No. 620 Squadron, flying from various bases, RAF Chedburgh, RAF Leicester East and then RAF Fairford. The roles for this squadron were not just bombing missions but Minelaying, Supply drops, Glider Towing and Paratrooper drops. He took part in D-Day, dropping paratroopers from the 6th Airborne Division over Caen, France on the night of 5th June 1944, returning on the 6th towing a glider of heavy equipment. He was also a part of Market Garden, towing a glider on 17th September 1944 and returning on the 19th and 21st on supply drops. There were also numerous drops on behalf of Special Operations Executive (SOE) as well as Special Air Service (SAS) dropping supplies and paratroopers.
Andrew St.Denis
Allen Gould was born on 16 June 1923 in Bournemouth. He left school at fourteen and worked for the Danish Bacon company until he was called up. His father having spent four years in the trenches, in WW1, advised him against joining the Army, so he volunteered for the Royal Air Force.
He joined the RAF on in October 1942 and following basic training he attended the first-ever direct entry, Flight Engineers’ Course at RAF St Athan.
On completion of flight engineering training, he joined up with his crew on 1657 Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Stradishall, then moved with them onto 620 Squadron at RAF Chedburgh and later RAF Leicester East.
The squadron later relocated to RAF Fairford where they trained to tow gliders. He was billeted with 12 others in a Nissan hut, conveniently close to a trout stream. They often caught trout, away from the watchful eye of the bailiff and cooked them in a tin on the large coke stove that heated the hut. The illicit bounty was a most welcome supplement to the barely adequate daily rations they received.
Direct out of training with no aircraft experience he had to earn the trust of his crew who up until then had only come across experienced flight engineers. On only his second operational trip and flying with an inexperienced crew, they arrived late over Ludwigshafen, where they found themselves alone and under concentrated anti-aircraft fire. The aircraft was being peppered and was full of holes while the pilot was executing extreme manoeuvres trying to avoid further damage. A fuel tank was hit and Allen had to work hard to ensure the engines received sufficient fuel to keep running. At the same time he had to make sure there would be enough fuel remaining to get back to the south coast of England for an emergency landing. As the aircraft approached the runway, the airfield lights went out and the pilot announced he was going to do another circuit. Allen told him, bluntly, he couldn’t as he didn’t have enough fuel, so the pilot made a steep turn and conducted a blind landing with no fuel to spare. Allen bonded well with his crew and in their free time they would often all go out to the pub together.
Throughout his tour his squadron undertook a variety of roles, much of was it in support of the Special Operations Executive personnel, operating covertly in occupied Europe. They also trained to tow gliders and dropped parachuting troops on D Day.
Allen completed 32 operations as a flight engineer with 620 Squadron and he totalled over 460 flying hours on Stirlings. PGouldAG1610.2.jpg (1600×2310) (lincoln.ac.uk)
For his services to 620 Squadron, he was ‘Mentioned in Despatches’ for distinguished service. MGouldAG1605203-160708-13.2.pdf (lincoln.ac.uk)
Post war, he married his wife, Norma, who was training as a mechanic at St Athan when he met her. PGouldAG1601.2.jpg (1600×2412) (lincoln.ac.uk)
Allen was discharged in October 1946 having attained the rank of Warrant Officer. PGouldAG1604.1.jpg (1600×2330) (lincoln.ac.uk)
He returned to the Danish Bacon company where he worked for another 40 years.
Chriss Cann
October 1942: Volunteered for the RAF
January 1943 - July 1943: RAF St Athan, Flight Engineer Training
July 1943 - September 1943: RAF Stradishall, 1657 HCU, flying Stirling aircraft
September 1943 - December 1943: RAF Chedburgh, 620 Squadron, flying Stirling aircraft
January 1944 - March 1944: RAF Leicester East, 620 Squadron, flying Stirling aircraft
March 1944 - April 1945: RAF Fairford,620 Squadron, flying Stirling aircraft
8 October 1946: Released from service having attained the rank of Warrant Officer
Chris Cann
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is the eighth of July two thousand and sixteen, we’re in Oxford talking to Allen Gould about his experiences flying Stirling’s in the war. Allen what are your first recollections of life with the family?
AG: Well I went to school at Winton and Moordown council boys school in Bournemouth, erm, left when I was fourteen, which irritated my father, ‘cos he hadn’t got the money to pay for me to go to grammar school, there were only two seats allocated to our school, after the erm, eleven plus, and, erm, everybody there failed except for the doctor’s son and the councillor’s son, who both got a grammar school seat, which I would have loved but there you are, because in those days that was the only way you could get to university, grammar school first and then go, [pause] and I left school at fourteen, got a job with the Danish Bacon Company, [pause] a shit house firm right from the start, I was there for, getting on for forty years, after the war I came back there and erm, and then I, my nerves got back to normal when I was, after I had been away from the air force for, ten or twelve years, and erm, I got another job, which I was quite pleased about but they wouldn’t let me take my pension with me which my new firm offered to do and treat it as though I had been there all that time, but they didn’t, they made me take the whole thing out, not the part they paid in, all I’d been paid in, they made me take that out as part of my last week’s wages there, ‘cos the income tax that week would frighten anybody, [laughs] and that was it, and I was there until I got called up, with erm, three other fellas, I was the only one that came back without any damage, two of ‘em got killed, one of them finished up with one leg about three inches shorter than the other, I was the only one that was alright when I came back, and then went on the road and did commercial travelling, up and down the country, and I did that with a new firm I joined, Patrick Grainger and Hutleys, nice firm based in Fordingbridge, [pause] so I was up at half past five in the morning going to work, driving up to Fordingbridge, and picking up one of my drivers along the way [pause]
CB: Ok, so, you started with the bacon company, how did you come to join the RAF?
AG: Well, I rather fancied it you know I mean when I was called up my father had done four years in the trenches and he said ‘no way are you going into the army, my cocker’ so I said ‘ Oh alright I’ll take your advice on that’, so I put my name down for the RAF, and when it came to a choice between this and that and I thought flying, oh wow, let’s have a go at that.So, er, I, finished up in Blackpool getting my uniform and one thing and another, and then erm, posted from there down to St Athans, on this first directory, first direct [emphasis], flight engineers course, because they were losing so many flight engineers who’d taken a long time, a really [emphasis] long time in training and they couldn’t afford it any longer. So we were pushed through, erm, six months and I was out on the squadron, at erm, Stradishall and then in the finish we wound up at Fairford and we were there for years, [pause] the only other aerodrome we flew from during that time was from Hurn, just outside Bournemouth
CB: So, you did your training at St Athan, what was the training that you did there?
AG: Direct entry flight engineer
CB: Yeh, but, what was involved in that?
AG: Well, really all it boiled down to was, looking at pictures of engines and exploring the airframes, and one thing and another, so when we were flying I was always on the move, bouncing up and down on me toes for up to twelve hours if we went down as far as Switzerland, ‘cos flight engineers don’t have a seat [pause]
CB: Ok, so on the training though there’s a lot of aspects of the aircraft?
AG: Yeh
CB: So, what aspects were you dealing with, you talked briefly about airframe, but what else were they focussing on?
AG: Oh, erm, the engines and erm, more particularly the amount of fuel they would be using and heights we were going to, how it objected on the fuel take up and er all that sort of thing
CB: So, on an aircraft the size of the four engine planes, how many tanks would there be on those planes?
AG: Err
CB: Fuel tanks
AG: Numbers two and four, and one, two and three in each wing
CB: So, what was the flight engineer’s job in that?
AG: Well. I had to control that, when the pilot was fiddling about with the controls, I was watching the dials and making sure that everything was as it should be, erm, we only got into real trouble on one flight, erm, when we were still sort of, an inexperienced crew, we had to, erm, join bombers going to Mannheim Ludwigshafen and we were bombing the Ludwigshafen, and being a sprog crew, ‘cos we got there ten minutes late all the others had gone through, so we were going over on our own and we were really getting bashed. Our pilot was doing mad dives and turns to get us out of it, the only thing that we lost was the number four tank in the starboard wing, so I had to run all the engines off that to make sure we used everything we possibly could, and, we did, just save enough to get back to an emergency aerodrome on the south coast, whose name I’ve forgotten to be honest, and we were just going into land and they turned all the lights off, and the pilot said ‘I’ll do another circuit’ and I said ‘ you can’t, you haven’t got enough fuel’, I’m afraid that became a funny word to them because every time he saw me in future he said ‘We can’t, we haven’t got enough fuel!’. So, he did a sweep to the left up on one wing and came straight back in and landed, lights or no lights, he was going in, and we did, I said to the bomb aimer, who was also the second pilot afterwards ‘how did you, er, cope with that ‘? He said ‘well’, he said ‘you know when the undercarriage is down you get a green light’ he said, ‘and if it’s not you get a red light’ So, he said ‘we were as bouncing down the runway and it was going red, green, red, green, red, green, red, green’, [laughs] I said, ‘Oh, thanks very much, cheered me up no end that has’
CB: But, it stayed down?
AG: Oh, yeh, we got down no bother, we just got enough. The pilot came out the following morning and said ‘Look, if we’ve got any fuel left, I’m gonna kick your arse all round this aerodrome’, so I dipped every tank, he and I walked across the wings and I dipped every tank, and it was just enough left in one of them to damp the end of the dipstick, so he shut up after that [laughs]
CB: So, it was reassuring that the gauges were accurate
AG: Well, I wondered if that was what finished up with that MiD of mine, ‘cos they must have made a note of it because we had to abandon the aircraft there and get a lift back to our aerodrome at Fairford, we just left them on this, at this other aerodrome, whose name I don’t remember unfortunately
CB: So, MiD is, mentioned in despatches?
AG: Yeh
CB: Right
AG: Yeh, so somebody must have made a note of it, I expect my pilot went back and said, ‘he was right you know, we didn’t have any fuel’ [laughs]
CB: Saved the crew, effectively
AG: Well, there you are, yeh, so, perhaps that’s what I got it for
CB: So, the reason I asked you about the training is, because clearly, it was focussed on, what in those days was state of the art aircraft, the first of the heavy bombers was the Stirling,
AG: Hmm
CB: but it was different from the other bombers, in that it had electrical circuits for so many things where others would use hydraulics
AG: Oh, yes
CB: In your basic training, what emphasis, was there, on hydraulics and electrics, in the training at St Athan?
AG: Well, skimming over it, as it was a direct entry course they didn’t waste a lot of time, I’ll tell you
CB: How did you come to do flight engineering, because you, had you, when you were working for the bacon company, had you been involved in technical matters then?
AG: No, no
CB: So, how did you come to be selected to train as a flight engineer?
AG: Well, I think they wanted when we were in Blackpool, they wanted flight engineers more than anything because they’d lost so many, and erm, I was automatically put onto that, you know, I’d erm, I think I put my name down to start with for navigation, but never got to that [pause]
CB: So, you finished the training after six months and how did you feel at the end of the training about your knowledge of engineering and aircraft?
AG: Well, I thought at the time that it wasn’t up to scratch, really, I mean, when I thought of the work that previous flight engineers had, had to do, different courses and out on a squadron for six months and then come back and do another course, I mean what we, what they went through to get us out was quick and easy, you know, and that sort of thing.
CB: So, the process for crewing up aircrew, was that at the operational training unit the crew got together, the flight engineer didn’t join until the heavy conversion unit?
AG: That’s right
CB: So, what was the crew like when you, how did you come to join an existing crew that had been on Wellingtons?
AG: Well, they were a bit iffy about having a direct entry flight engineer
CB: Were they?
AG: Because they were told I was one, and they’d never heard of anybody like that, you know, and they thought they were going to get somebody who had been out working on aircraft, on the flights, on the aerodromes, but they didn’t they got me and er, until this second trip, when I got away with this fuel business, after that we were, they relied on me, really, and er, were extremely friendly
CB: As a crew, what were the ranks, was the pilot always commissioned or was he only
AG: Oh yes
CB: Commissioned later?
AG: Yes, the pilot and the navigator and the rear gunner were all commissioned, [pause] and the wireless operator was a sergeant like me when we started flying together [pause]
CB: Ok, so you joined at the heavy conversion unit, where was that?
AG: Stradishall
CB: Right
AG: I do remember that name
CB: And how long where you at Stradishall?
AG: Oh, only about a week [pause], then we went up to Fairford and started ops
CB: Right
AG: Our first one was erm, minelaying, off erm, [unclear] Byrum [?] I think I got the name right, other side of Denmark, going down towards where the Germans were
CB: The far side of Denmark?
AG: Yeh
CB: The Swedish side?
AG: That’s right, yeh, yes, I remember coming back from there, we were flying along and you could see all the Swedish coast, all lit up, the pears, the piers and everything, all the lights
CB: Didn’t do you any good from a silhouette point of view, did it?
AG: No, it didn’t, no that’s true, yes, the only other place, that er, we were worried about the silhouette was erm, we did erm, three or four trips to Norway, supplying free Norwegians, who were up in the mountains, we had to look out for them and then drop stuff to them, funny enough, I see in the paper, that it was only last year, that they found some of the stuff that had been dropped for these people, that they never found and it was still in the snow, but when we were flying over there, we only went up there on a really full moon at night, and we could see our shadow going across the snow, well if anybody had been up, all they had to do was to look at the, moon and our shadow and they knew exactly where we were, and of course the only thing we had to worry about there, was the right up in the north of Denmark was this big German fighter unit, they used to cover the North Sea and out in the Atlantic and all over
CB: So, you were supplying the SOE, the Special Operations Executive in that case, weren’t you?
AG: Yeh, that’s right
CB: So, are you saying that the squadron, 620, had a variety of roles?
AG: Oh yes, we erm, D Day, we dropped parachutes on Caen bridge, and then we had to go back and come over again in the afternoon with gliders, with heavier equipment, down in the same place
CB: So, on gliders, where did you train for towing gliders?
AG: At Fairford
CB: What was the main activity at Fairford then?
AG: Well, the main activity there, was putting us out on raids or supply trips, which went on for years
CB: Rather than bombing you were supplying agents
AG: Yeh, oh yeh
CB: Right
AG: We did bombing raids as well, because I remember we, that, our troops on the ground had got this, surrounded this wood which had got the Germans in it, and we had to go over and bomb these German troops in this wood, and we had a plane going over there about every ten minutes so they wouldn’t get any rest or peace and we just had to keep on bombing this wood
CB: And the effect?
AG: Well, it seemed to work alright, but erm, [pause]
CB: And what about the bombing then, other bombing, what other tasks were there? So, you talked about mine laying
AG: Yeh
CB: Well, let’s just cover minelaying for a bit, mine laying was at a low level wasn’t it
AG: Oh yes
CB: What height were you doing the mine laying?
AG: About five hundred feet
CB: Right
AG: And erm, after that I think, we were mainly doing supplies, down over France, to anyone who needed it, and we did take some paratroops over there, Occasionally we had some odd characters, there was a bloke arrived there, put his parachute on, and he’d got a very smart suit on and a bowler hat, and he was, we were dropping him outside some village, where he had to get in by himself after he landed, and pretend to be the mayor, which is why he was so smartly dressed [laughs]
CB: This was after D Day, was it?
AG: Oh, yeh, yeh, well after, yeh, and then we were sent down, a little while after that, we were sent down to Italy, ‘cos I think they had some idea of us towing gliders from Italy with heavy equipment across to Greece, but it didn’t come to anything, we been there about four or five days, and the whole thing in Greece, came to a grinding halt, so they just said, no we don’t need you and we came back to England. That picture there, is erm, when we were in Italy, Pomigliano, I think it’s a little aerodrome, not far outside Naples, [pause]. Not that we were looking forward to trying to get off there with gliders, because they’ve got these great big heavy power lines right across the end of the runways, we couldn’t see how the hell we were going to get high enough to get the glider over those
CB: Well, it’s the wrong side
AG: Fortunately, we never had to try
CB: Right, it was the
AG: We were a bit worried about that [laughs]
CB: It was the wrong side of Italy to go to Greece anyway wasn’t it?
AG: Oh yeh, yeh
CB: But, the gliders were on this airfield as, well, were they?
AG: Well, no, we didn’t get as far as that
CB: Right
AG: They would have been coming from somewhere else
CB: Yeh
AG: But they stopped it in the end, said it wasn’t necessary, Greece was in a hell of a mess at the time anyway and our troops were in there, so they didn’t need the gliders, so, go on home, so we went, back to England
CB: What was the balance between supplying, agents, in activity and doing bombing raids?
AG: Very few bombing raids, it was mainly, either supply, or erm, taking people over there. I remember we had to go to an American aerodrome and pick up some American paratroops, I was very sorry for them, ‘cos the sergeant in charge said ‘have you got a gun’ I said ‘well yes, of course I’ve got my usual forty five issue’. He said ‘right, well if the first bloke refuses to jump shoot him, I shall be pushing from the back and you go out anyway’ and I thought well that’s a fine way, and I didn’t even unholster the gun ‘cos I had no intention of doing it, but erm, I’m afraid with some of these Americans I was very sorry for them, they were shit scared and badly trained, still
CB: In what way were they badly trained?
AG: Well, they’d never done a jump before, this is why he thought the bloke in front might stick his toes in and refuse to jump out, ‘cos in the Stirling, it was a big hole in the floor and you went out that way, you didn’t go out the door, ‘cos there was always the danger of being caught by the wing, by the tail, plane as it came by, so, the Stirling had a hole in the floor, and erm, these people hadn’t done any jumps at all
CB: How extraordinary
AG: Yeh well this is it, you know, they got in and clipped on
CB: They had a static line to clip on?
AG: Yeh, that’s right, yeh
CB: But, they all went?
AG: Oh yes, they all went out, no bother at all, but erm, I won’t going to shoot anybody anyway, I was very sorry for them
CB: Now, on the supply raids and when your’e dropping, trips, when your’e dropping material and people, this is largely low level is it?
AG: Oh yeh, yeh,
CB: What sort of height?
AC: Particularly with people because you had to drop them from a reasonable low height, it’s no good chucking a parachute out you know, at eighteen thousand or something like that, and hoping he’s gonna get down to where he should, because if there’s any wind blowing he would land miles away
CB: So, what height were they being dropped?
AG: Oh, between five and six hundred most of them I think, as far as I remember
CB: And most of this is in the dark, is it?
AG: Oh yes, yeh of course
CB: How did the navigator find the target for this, because you’re on your own when you do this?
AG: Oh yes, yes, oh yeh. Well, he was told, you know, where to go and miles from wherever, and er, we just had to find it, or he did
CB: Were there electronic devices used to help?
AG: No, no, we didn’t have anything like that, we had an, erm, sort of a semi radar thing, in the plane which was the start of that sort of thing, but erm
CB: Was that H2S or different?
AG: I have no idea
CB: Or other words, a mapping radar, was it?
AG: Yeh, well, it showed up, you know, things like mountains and things like that, but that was all, I mean it was fairly beginning things
CB: So, when did you start, flying with 620 Squadron?
AG: Erm, [pause], oh dear, [pause], well, it was after I’d done my six months at St Athans, so that would be
CB: So, when did you go to St Athan?
AG: Erm, so that would be erm, [pause] when I were called up, I went to Blackpool, so it would be, erm, [pause] beginning of forty-three, I suppose
CB: For six months?
AG: Yeh [pause], or was it forty-two for six months? and then on, [pause] difficult to remember because
CB: So, when in forty-one did you join, what time of year?
AG: Oh, in the September
CB: Ok, so then you went to Blackpool?
AG: When I was called up, yeh
CB: Yeh
AG: I developed scarlet fever, the week I was called up, so the doctor said I’d got to stay there, I was in bed, with a blanket over the door, which had been sprayed by my mother, to keep the germs in the bedroom [laughs] and then so when I got to Blackpool, I had to report sick with scarlet fever, and the bloke said, ‘how long have you had it’? and I told him, and he said ‘no, that’s alright, you can carry on’ [laughs.] Yes, I remember that, I was sitting there and the nurse came round and said ‘why have you come’ and I said ‘’cos, I’ve got scarlet fever’ and I could see these two blokes, either side, go like that [laughter]
CB: Amazing, [pause] so, how long were you at Blackpool?
AG: Erm, oh, must have been about, I was there quite a long time
CB: You did your square bashing there, did you?
AG: Yeh, must have been, what, three months, oh, we were not only square bashing, I was, out digging in some place where they were putting in, erm, assault courses for people to practice on, we were out digging that, while I was there, they didn’t waste us.
CB: So, that would take you to Christmas?
AG: Yeh
CB: So, you went from Blackpool to St Athan?
AG: Yeh, well, I couldn’t tell you when
CB: So, that sounds like the beginning of forty-two, we’ll check it out anyway
AG: Yeh
CB: And you were there six months, so you would have joined the squadron
AG: Yeh
CB: When?
AG: I went from there, straight to Stradishall and joined up with the crew and then we finished up in Fairford
CB: But, you were involved in operations in D Day?
AG: Oh yeh, yeh
CB: How many tours did you do?
AG: Only the one
CB: Right, and how many ops did you do?
AG: Oh, thirty-two, something like that, just over thirty, a fraction over thirty
CB: I’m going to stop just for a mo.
AG: Yeh, right
CB: We are just going to talk a little bit about the crew, we’ve talked earlier about, when Allen sorted out the fuel distribution arrangements and how they were short of fuel, and that got him accepted, but how did the crew gel?
AG: Oh, very well, erm, our pilot had a car, I don’t know where he got it from, but he had a car at Fairford, and erm, we used to go out at night, to one of the local pubs, all of us
CB: All seven of you?
AG: Yeh, oh yeh, I think we meshed very well actually
CB: Right, and how well equipped were the pubs for supplying thirsty air crew?
AG: Oh, very well, particularly the one we used to go to which had a lot of really nice-looking girls serving there, which always started my pilot, [laughs] away [laughs] if he got half the chance [laughs]
CB: Yeh, and did they ever run out of beer?
AG: No, never, never, yeh
CB: So, part of the crew was commissioned, and part of it was NCO?
AG: Yeh
CB: So, what were your quarters like as an NCO?
AG: What were my what?
CB: Quarters, where were you?
AG: Oh, I was just in a billet with, twelve other people
CB: Right, so, what was the billet, a Nissan hut?
AG: Yeh, a Nissan hut, yeh, and at Fairford, we were right down the bottom of the hill, by the stream, where we could go fishing for trout, very naughty, and we knew what time the bailiff used to come round, and make sure there was nobody fishing in this trout stream, and so, we always used to make sure we weren’t down there when he came by [laughs]. No, I used to like trout, done on a coke stove
CB: Is that the coke stove in the Nissan hut?
AG: Yeh, yeh, that’s all the heat we had in there, was just one of these big coke stoves
CB: So, what was the recipe then, how did you deal with it, so you got the trout?
AG: Oh, put it in a tin on the top, after gutting it and chopping it, putting it on, and just standing it on the stove until it was cooked, knowing what the food was like, you know, we was always trying to add to it [laughs], one way or the other
CB: Were you normally hungry or was the normal amount adequate?
AG: Well, it was for me but I don’t think it was for some of them, but er, no, I always, I always, seemed to get on fairly well. The only funny thing that happened down at that Nissan hut that we were in, eh, one of the blokes had gone into town on his bicycle, when he came back, he’d thrown the bicycle over the fence, not realising, that he’d thrown it into a sewerage pit, so he climbed up and jumped in after it he turned up at the back door of the hut covered in green muck, and we threw things at him until he went away and got in the shower with all his clothes on [laughs] we weren’t going to let him in [laughs] Yeh, I can see that bloke standing there now
CB: How many uniforms did you have? He had to dry it out, first did he?
AG: Er, well, you really had one and a spare which you kept, you kept one, you know, for parades and one thing and another, and a spare, and of course when I became a warrant officer, then I was never short of clothes and it was all extremely smart, and I had more spares than I could cope with
CB: At what stage did you become a warrant officer?
AG: Oh, in my third year, because you went up one rank every year, this is why we had flight lieutenant rear gunner, he’d gone [laughs] gradually up [laughs] anyway
CB: So, you, worked well as a crew?
AG: Oh, yeh, really well
CB: And, erm, how did the food come, if you were flying at night, before you
AG: Well, we had to eat before we went
CB: Right, so what was that
AG: If it was a night flight
CB: Ok, what did you get?
AG: Well, anything that was going, you know, I seem to remember a lot of sausages in those days, I suppose they were easy to come by and easy to make so, they were alright, yeh
CB: Did they keep pigs on the station?
AG: No, not that I ever saw
CB: And, when you landed after an op, what did you get for food?
AG: Eh, well roughly the same thing again, whatever was available, you know, but erm,
CB: Bacon and egg?
AG: Oh yes, yes, we always had that, the only thing that I remember about coming back late one night, before we’d taken off, I’d gone out to the aircraft with a bicycle and had a look round like, as I usually did, and er, when we landed I got on the bike and whizzed off back, and, in the meantime they’d put a barbed wire fence across the bloody path and I rode straight into that and went flying, pitch down, and I got barbed wire cuts all up one arm, and of course, we hadn’t been debriefed or anything, so in between take off and being debriefed, I’d been wounded, I was entitled to a wound stripe, and I thought I shall never have the cheek to wear it, so I didn’t, ‘cos it wasn’t my fault they’d put a barbed wire fence up there
CB: Now, you’ve raised an interesting point there, the wound stripe, how was that allocated and then shown on the uniform?
AG: Well, you had an upside down v, a little red v on the bottom of your left-hand sleeve, I mean I’ve seen
CB: On the wrist?
AG: I saw a bloke once, he’d got fifteen of these all up this arm, so I thought, he must be ruddy unlucky [laughs]
CB: So, this will come as a result of aerial combat of some kind, would it?
AG: Oh yeh, oh yeh
CB: So, how often were you hit and by what?
AG: Well, the only time we were hit, hit badly, was when we were so short of fuel, because they’d absolutely peppered the aircraft, it was full of holes all over, up in, down, and underneath, under the tanks in the wings and everywhere. It was our own fault because we’d arrived ten minutes too late, we blamed the navigator, the rest of the bomber crews had gone on by, so we were flying over Ludwigshafen on our own, we were getting pasted
CB: No fire?
AG: No, fortunately
CB: And er, so that’s flak, so what about fighter attack, how often did you have those?
AG: No, we were lucky, we never had one, ever, [emphasis] although our gunners were ready, but we were lucky to get away with it, particularly when we were doing those Norway trips, ‘cos we’d got no cover there at all, and everything was wide open, you could see our shadow moving across the snow, and this German fighter place up in the north of Denmark, was huge, God knows how many fighters they had there, but we were lucky, we got away with it every time we went to Norway we got away with it without seeing one. The only time we got shot at in Norway, going up the creek to Oslo, and we had to go over Oslo and up into the mountains, to drop this stuff, and in the creek was three islands, one there, one there and one there, and they all had German flak guns on, fortunately, we came in so low that we were leaving a wake up this creek, I looked out and I could see it
CB: On the water?
AG: On the water, and this island was firing at us and hitting the other island, which we thought was quite good [laughs] but when we got to the third one of course, we were just taking a chance, round and round and out quick and after that it was just up over Oslo and into the mountains [pause] interesting, it was only last year that it was in the paper that they found some of this stuff up there that had been dropped, and the people up there never found it
CB: Where they able to find out who had, which aircraft had dropped it?
AG: No, no, they couldn’t find out anything about it at all
CB: So, you said, earlier, that the, Stirling was grossly under-rated, and you thought it was a brilliant aeroplane, what was so special about the Stirling in your perception?
AG: Well, the fact that it was solid metal, you know, it would stand up to practically anything, and only get minor damage, and of course the engines were superb, far better than anything on any of the other aircraft
CB: So, what engines were on the Stirling?
AG: Oh, those Bristol Radials
CB: Hercules
AG: Yeh, I know that we started off with two, two banks of pots and finished up with three, and erm, they were really good, far better than these Merlin engines, ‘cos these would take punishment, the others wouldn’t
CB: Going back to your training, looking at your training manuals, books you filled in, erm, exercise books, when you were training, there, there’s a section on everything but, the significance of the Stirling was it was, it had so much electrics on it, so how well were you prepared at St Athan, for going onto an aircraft that had such a large amount of electrics?
AG: Oh, pretty well, I think I never had any trouble with any of it, the only thing I nearly did one night, was to cook the pigeon, they gave us, in case we came down in the North Sea, and we were sat in a dinghy, there you know, waiting to be rescued, they gave us a pigeon that we could put on out last position and send it off, and I put this pigeon on the floor and I didn’t realise until I got back, that I’d stood it up against this heating pipe that was coming through from one of the engines, I thought the bloody thing will be cooked, but it was perfectly alright, thank goodness [laughs]
CB: Just gone deaf
AG: Well, it must have been warm, which was more than the rest of us were on some of these flights
CB: Where was the warmest part on the aircraft?
AG: At the end of this pipe that was coming through from the inner starboard engine
CB: That was the heater for the fuselage, was it?
AG: Yeh, that’s right, yeh
CB: So, what were the things that were electric, driven electrically, on the Stirling?
AG: Well, practically everything, I mean, I’d got a bank of dials in front of me where I was, which were, erm, you know, gave you an indication of how much fuel was in each tank, ‘cos you had one for each tank, starboard and port, and that was all run by electrics, I mean, if you lost your electrics, you’d got no guides at all, that sort of thing, but we never did, fortunately
CB: And, were any of the flying controls electric?
AG: Ah, the only thing that I knew about, that was my job, was the undercarriage, which was electric, down and up, but, erm, if that had failed I could do that by hand take me about half an hour I should think [laughs] ‘cos it was really hard work, but er, that you could do
CB: And, what about the trimmer? so, in the flying controls, were the trimmers electric?
AG: Erm, yes, but that was done either by the co-pilot, the bomb aimer or the pilot, I never had anything to do with that
CB: You said earlier that you had to stand up all the time, but did you have a seat for take-off and landing?
AG: Well, I had to sit on the parachute
CB: Where?
AG: The type of the parachute was the cushion type, with the two, rings at the back, which you just clicked onto your harness, which was there at the front, you just clicked on, yeh that’s right, on the front, [pause] and as it was that sort of thick, and that big, we used to sit on it
CB: Now, thinking now, about the take-off and landing, as the engineer, to what extent, were you involved in helping with the take-off with the throttles?
AG: Not at all, the pilot did it all and I used to watch the dials and make sure that there was nothing I had to tell him
CB: So, were you sitting next to him at that point, or
AG: No, no I was
CB: You were standing?
AG: No, I was either standing, bouncing up and down on me toes or, sat on the parachute looking at all this, wall of dials in front of me
CB: And erm, with most flight engineer tasks, positions, er, logs had to be taken, so,
AG: Oh yeh
CB: What logging did you do and how often?
AG: Well, you had to do one for every flight
CB: But, during the flight, what did you have to record?
AG: Well, if anything went wrong or, we needed something that wasn’t there or whatever, you had to put it in the log, you know, but erm, I never seemed to have any trouble with that, we were lucky really, we really were lucky
CB: From what you have said, fuel management is a key matter, so, of the tanks, in what sequence did you, use for fuel, you’d have one for take-off and then how did you distribute the fuel?
AG: Well, there was two big tanks, number two and number four, in each wing, and you used those for take-off particularly if you were towing a glider because you used a lot of it, and er, once you were up and on a long, fairly longish flight, because we did, we had to go twelve hours sometimes, which took us nearly down to the Swiss border, to supply, Free French that were in the hills there, in the foothills, and erm, as I said, it was, by the time we got back to base again, we’d been out twelve hours
CB: And erm, in terms of the next range of tanks, how did you switch, in what sequence did you use the fuel?
[background noise]
AG: Well, you used the little ones, number one and number two
CB: Which are on the wing tips?
AG: Number one and number three, out, at the far end, you use those first, on both wings, and you tried to keep them going to the engines, you got [pause] like two engines there, and two engines there and you had to keep them going, from the same tanks, pretty well for the same length of time, so you’d know exactly what type of tank was going to be empty, you didn’t have to look at your dial until it went empty, I mean, you had to do it by time, and er, whatever revs were on the engines
CB: And, setting the revs on the engines, and the pitch of the screws, who dealt, did that?
AG: Oh, that was the pilot, did that
CB: Right
AG: And if you didn’t like what he was doing, you had to tell him and he had to alter it
CB: And to what extent was it necessary to synchronise the engines in flight?
AG: Er, not a lot really, we had an extremely good ground crew and normally we found that they’d adjust, perfectly, [pause] because we really relied on our ground crew a lot and we had four really good blokes
CB: And did they come out with you, in the evenings sometimes or did they?
AG: Oh yeh, yeh, oh yeh, we thought a lot of those fellas, in fact I gave one of them my bike, when I left, when I was posted away from the squadron, erm, I gave him my bicycle, which I was sad about, but, he deserved it
CB: So, you come to the end of your tour, and you did thirty, thirty-two operations, what did you do after that?
AG: Well, we only had one flight after that because the officer’s mess had run out of beer, we had to fly over to Northern Ireland and bring back a load of beer for them [laughs]
CB: Must have been an arduous trip!
AG: Oh yeh, [laughs] because we’d have liked to have gone on over there and done something, really naughty, because at that time the IRA were building bonfires in the shape of arrows, pointing, to where the aerodrome was
CB: Oh, for German bombers?
AG: That’s right, yeh, bastards [emphasis]
CB: And, how long had they been doing that for?
AG: Practically, since the war started
CB: And how were they dealt with?
AG: Well, they should have been bloody shot, but we never got around to it! It’s like that bloke McGuiness, I mean he’s in the Irish government now, he was the one that started that Bloody Sunday, he was the one on top with the rifle, firing at our troops what did they think, that we weren’t going to fire back? I don’t know, that bastard should have been shot, and you can write that down and put my name on it [laughs]
CB: So, the arrows bit is interesting, how long did that go on for?
AG: Oh, quite a long time during the war, [pause] yeh, swines
CB: And, what did the beer taste like when you got it back
AG: Oh, that weren’t for us, that was for the officer’s mess, we weren’t allowed to touch it
CB: Didn’t you sample it to make sure it was ok?
AG: No
CB: So, your last flight was keeping them topped up, then what did you do? So, you’ve left the squadron now
AG: Oh, well, I was erm, posted away then, and er, [pause] and finished up at a place called Burnham Beeches
CB: In Buckinghamshire?
AG: Yeh, and erm
CB: What happened there?
AG: Well, nothing really, I don’t think they knew what to do with us, I mean that was where I learnt how to play tennis, one of the blokes there, he’d been champion of Yorkshire for two or three years, and he gave me one of his racquets, and I’ve still got it, I’d still use it, if I played tennis, which I thought was very nice of him, and er, we went rowing on the river there and all sorts of things. As I said they didn’t know what to do with us, we were just keeping out the way
CB: So, we’re after Arnhem now aren’t we, so
AG: Oh yeh
CB: So, what sort of time are we talking about? In the autumn or are we later?
AG: Oh erm, [pause] now, I think I went there if I remember rightly, I went there in er, January, February somewhere like that, fairly early
CB: Forty-five
AG: At Burnham Beeches and we were erm, we’d taken over this big country house that was there, and erm, they just kept the top floor, to live in, and we had the offices all down below, and er, working in there
CB: Doing what?
AG: Well, I was sat in the office there, and it was a most peculiar effort, if they, had a man posted from Edinburgh to Glasgow, an RAF policeman, he had to come all the way down to us, be booked into my office and booked out again, and given travel warrants and away he went, most peculiar efforts, still there you are, you wondered who was running these things sometimes
CB: And then after, how long did that go on for?
AG: Oh, I think I was there for about erm, three or four months [background noise] and then I was posted to Leicester
CB: Leicester East? The airfield, Leicester East?
AG: Oh no, no, no, no, just somewhere in Leicester, erm, and erm, I was there for about a fortnight or so I think, and then I went back to Burnham Beeches and got discharged, and went to London and picked up my civvies
CB: Then what? So, you’re discharged, demobbed, what did you do then?
AG: Well, I went home and had a week off and then I went back to work for the Danish Bacon company, shit house firm
[background laughter]
CB: Would you like to explain why they were like that? What was it that was so upsetting about the Danish Bacon
AG: Well, because I’d
CB: Company
AG: Been here for nearly forty years, until I got another job and I wanted to take my pension and money, put it into this new firm and they were going to treat it as though I’d been there all the time, so I’d have had a really good pension when I did eventually retire, but they wouldn’t do it, they made me take all the money out and it was only what I’d paid in, nothing of theirs, and I had to take it out as my last week’s wages and the income tax was unbelievable, not a nice firm, fortunately, they went out of business after that
CB: Right, so
AG: It went broke
CB: When did you leave them?
AG: Ah, [pause] I’m scratching for the year, [pause] I can’t remember to be honest
CB: So, you left the RAF in forty-five
AG: Yeh
CB: How long did you stay with the Danish Bacon people?
AG: Er, oh another [pause] eight or nine years
CB: Then what?
AG: Then I got this offer of this new job
CB: At?
AG: Patrick Grainger and Hutley’s, at Fordingbridge
CB: What were you doing there?
AG: I was assistant manager and I was also travelling round, seeing some of their customers, and building up trade of course
CB: Ok, we’ll just have a break there, thank you
CB: So, you kept staying, kept with Patrick Grainger, who’d then been taken over by Danish Bacon until you retired after forty years. We are now going back to flying, so when you were flying Allen, as the engineer, you had to log various things because it was important to see how the plane was performing. What were you logging?
AG: Well, if you have a look at this, its erm, oil pressure, oil temperatures and cylinder temperatures
CB: Right, ok, and how often were you doing that? Did you have to do it at a particular time? Every hour?
AG: Yeh, well, this, if you look at the times down the left-hand side, its roughly about every fifteen minutes, I think
CB: Right
AG: But, I had another line, right the way across
CB: Yeh, so, when you got back, you, the aircraft lands, we didn’t get on to debrief, but, you’re the engineer, when you get out of the aircraft, who’s the first person you speak to, is that the Chiefy?
AG: Erm
CB: Your ground engineer?
AG: No, I wouldn’t see anybody until I got back into the debriefing hut
CB: Ok, so at debriefing, what would you be doing?
AG: Well, I had to hand my log in
CB: Right
AG: And erm,
CB: That you’d been completing in the flight?
AG: That’s right, yeh this one
CB: Yeh, ok, and then what, who was the person that looked at that?
AG: Well, they used to take them all away, and erm, if I remember rightly, it was the chap who was in charge of all the, erm, maintenance and all that stuff, he’d go through it, and any anomalies he’d then probably come, and ask you what happened then and [unclear]
CB: This would be the station engineering officer?
AG: Yeh
CB: Who would be dealing with all of that or one of his erm, people?
AG: Well, it was a bloke in charge of erm, all the ground crews
CB: Yeh, yeh
AG: He’d want to see that
CB: Now, would you then join the rest of the crew for the crew debriefing, what would happen?
AG: Oh yeh, yeh, we would all go and sit down together
CB: Where would that be and who would you see?
AG: Well, the CO would be there and a couple of his underlings and erm, they’d just go through the whole thing, right from the take off and erm, and talk to the pilot about what happened here and what happened there, and did he have any trouble, and went right through and made sure that we’d put either the bombs in the right place or erm, or supplied the people that were in the exact same spot that they were supposed to be in, because sometimes all you would get was one bloke flashing a morse letter on his torchP particularly if we were on one of those Norway trips, we used to go miles over the snow, and there would be some poor bugger right up in the mountains, with his torch, and then we would drop all these containers down there, so, what they did with them after that I don’t know, whether they towed them away or what
CB: So, the debrief, covers all the aspects of the flight?
AG: Yeh, oh yeh
CB: And, bearing in mind in many cases, your, you were a special duties squadron, so you were supplying SOE, to what extent were there SOE people there, during the debrief?
AG: Well, we assumed that, you know, there would be one or two officers there that we didn’t know where they come from, so it would have been them
CB: They were the air force officers?
AG: Yeh, it was either SOE or SAS
CB: Right
AG: Yeh
CB: What was the most memorable thing about your operational career, on operations?
AG: Oh, that one when we just got back with hardly any fuel, [laughs] the only thing that stands out in my mind
CB: Now, the aircraft had been peppered, pretty badly, why was it, it didn’t catch fire?
AG: Well, it was the way they were built, this is why we like the Stirling’s, there was nothing there to catch fire
CB: Did you have self-sealing fuel tanks?
AG: Well, up to a certain point but, that time we got caught with it, I mean, it had blown a hole about that big and of course that self-sealing didn’t work, over that size
CB: But the tank was empty anyway?
AG: Well, yeh, I ran all four engines on it, until I could see there was nothing left, and just went switching from one to another, then eking it out as well as I could, until we got back, right [hand clap] good
CB: Finally, where did you meet your wife?
AG: Ah, when I was at St Athans
CB: And what was she doing there?
AG: Well, she was doing this erm, mechanics training course, which she finished up doing, erm, I don’t think she was ever on, erm, an operating squadron, er, she was at this aerodrome down by Exeter, I went down there to see her once or twice, and erm, you know, that was it
CB: Was she on the flight line looking after the aircraft, or in the hangar?
AG: Oh, both, because erm, the only thing she ever moaned about it was the fact that they were working out in the rain, with no cover and erm, the only way they could get dry was to go in and stand with all their clothes on by this coke stove, get it red hot and stand there and hope their clothes dried, which is why she finished up with really bad arthritis in her legs, I reckon, because of that
CB: So, when did you meet her, oh you met her when you were at St Athan
AG: Yeh
CB: When did you marry?
AG: Oh, about er, about ten years later [pause] I can’t remember what year it was that we got married, no idea
CB: Sounds like about nineteen fifty-three?
AG: Hmm, probably, somewhere around there [background talking] yeh, one thing I should remember and I don’t
CB: Thank you very much
AG: Oh, it’s alright sir
CB: On the minelaying, you were talking about, so this is, the other side, having to fly the other side of Denmark
AG: Yeh
CB: How did that raid go, were you high up and then went down or, and how did you do the mining run
AG: Well, it was our first op that was, erm, well it was just a question of relying on the navigator, ‘cos I didn’t know where we were going, and erm, anyway, we had to come down really low, off this island I think it was called [unclear] Byrum [?] and er, drop these mines right across the erm, entrance to the harbour. If anything had come in there, they would have gone off, so, and then we came back, and flew up between the other side of Denmark and Sweden, and watched all Sweden being lit up, lights on the piers and all the way along the sea front, looked beautiful, we ain’t seen anything like that for years
CB: And then you were, we’ve got a picture here, of your, aircraft, on the flight line ready for take-off for Arnhem, so, could you talk us through that one?
AG: Well, erm
CB: What were you carrying?
AG: Well, the first day was alright, we were just carrying supplies, the only thing that buggered up Arnhem was the Americans, again, as usual. Erm, our troops took the first bridge, the Americans were supposed to take the second one, and we dropped our troops on the third one, and they’re the ones we were supplying, and erm, of course the Americans made a cock of it and couldn’t take theirs, which left our blokes on the third bridge sticking out on their own, and unfortunately, the intelligence was so bad, that nobody realised that, just a little way, away from there, there was, a big mass of Germans, who had taken back for a rest from the Russian front, and they had got their tanks and everything there, and our blokes on the third bridge didn’t stand a chance. They were gradually surrounded, erm, we went over there again and dropped more supplies, but the third day when we went over there, we didn’t realise but we were dropping to the Germans, and that we were sitting ducks at that height, fortunately, our pilot decided not to climb away and leave us vulnerable, he went down even further, and went in between the two milk factory chimneys and came out over the sea, clever bloke
CB: At what height were you dropping?
AG: Oh, about five hundred feet
CB: And how much stuff did you drop, it was in containers with parachutes, was it?
AG: No, it was all in, yeh, it was all in containers with parachutes, because we were, the first and second time actually dropping to our troops, it was the third time when we weren’t and didn’t realise it
CB: What was in the containers?
AG: Oh, small arms and food and supplies, and all that sort of thing
CB: Right, anything else? Good, thank you
AG: And we were erm, the planes were being loaded up, for supplies to the French, in some area, and er, we were walking out and one of the containers fell out the plane, and hit the ground, so we all went flat, so we thought knowing what was likely to be in them. Anyway, when the dust had settled and they hadn’t gone off, we walked over and had a look in this container, half of it was full of socks and the other half was full of durex, and I thought the French don’t need those [laughter] and they don’t use them anyway, [laughter] and I thought well, that’s a bloody fine thing, we are risking our necks taking over socks [emphasis] and anyway [laughter] that’s what wars all about I suppose
CB: They’d say that’s what they put in them before they chucked it
AG: Yeh, I’d forgotten, yeh, I’d forgotten about that, and I suddenly thought about this thing dropping down, and we all dived flat, because we reckoned it was going to blow up, but it didn’t, and we walked over to have a look, and that what was in it, socks and durex [laughs]
[Other] That’s the first time I’d heard Dad be angry about the Americans
AG: They were normally shit scared and badly trained
CB: The Americans?
AG: Yeh
CB: Right, erm, thank you.
Dublin Core
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Identifier
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AGouldAG160708
Title
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Interview with Allen Geoffrey Gould
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:10:32 audio recording
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
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2016-07-08
Description
An account of the resource
Allen Gould grew up in Bournemouth and worked for the Danish Bacon company until volunteering for the Royal Air Force. He completed 32 operations as a flight engineer with 620 Squadron from RAF Fairford. Post war, he married his wife, who was training as a mechanic at St Athan when he met her. He returned to the Danish Bacon company and worked there for another forty years.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Norway
Wales
England--Gloucestershire
England--Suffolk
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Italy
Italy--Pomigliano d'Arco
Temporal Coverage
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1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Contributor
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Cathie Hewitt
Chris Cann
620 Squadron
aircrew
animal
bombing
flight engineer
mine laying
RAF Fairford
RAF St Athan
RAF Stradishall
Special Operations Executive
Stirling
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/563/8831/AEdwardsAE161024.1.mp3
6f8f321cbb73cb59b14fc9ac1cbe74a6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Edwards, Allan Ernest
A E Edwards
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Edwards, AE
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. Collection concerns Warrant Officer Ernest Allan Edwards (b. 1924, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a flight engineer with 514, 7 and 582 Squadrons. Collection contains an oral history interview, biography, list of 42 operations and photographs of aircraft and people.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Ernest Allan Edwards and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
IP: This is Ian Price and I’m interviewing Allan Edwards today, the twenty-fourth of October 2016, for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive.
AE: 2016.
IP: Correct, yes, that’s this year.
AE: Er –
IP: We are, we are at Allan’s home in East Boldon, Tyne and Wear. Thank you, Allan for agreeing to talk to me today. Also present is Judith Higerty, Allan’s daughter. It is ten past eleven.
AE: Mhm.
IP: Allan, as I say, thank you for allowing me to come and talk to you. Just to start off, could you tell me what you recall about your life growing up and where you grew up, and what you did before the war really?
AE: As far as I can remember, I was born in Southwick in Sunderland, and then I worked at chartered accountants, Davidson and Gurrey for a while, and then worked at Vaux’s in nineteen, before I went into the Air Force. And then I went in the Air Force in [pause] December 1942, and er, I went to Blackpool to do eight weeks physical training, and then round about February or March 1943, went to Davidson and Gurrey, just for a while, and then went to Vaux’s April 1940, first of April 1940, as a clerk, and then in December or November, Decem, November, December 1942 went in the Air Force.
IP: Okay, so where did you go to school then, before, this is before you joined the Air Force obviously. I guess it would be the 1930s, something like that. Where were you at school?
AE: [Laughs]
IP: Do you recall?
AE: Erm [pause], I think it was at the local school which is in Sea Road –
IP: Local to here, or to – local to here, okay.
AE: Sea Road [unclear]. I went in there and then I went to [pause] the mid-school in Southwick, in Southwick. But I can’t remember much about it, I can’t, it’s way back.
IP: Okay, no that’s fine, and can you tell me a little about your parents? What, do you remember what your parents, or what your father did for work? Was he, was he in the First World War, do you remember as well?
AE: He was in the First World War, yeah, yeah, and I think he was an ironmonger, an ironmonger and he used to have a shop in [unclear] Avenue. That’s as far as I can remember.
IP: Okay, so what caused you then to join the Royal Air Force? What, why did join the Royal Air Force and what made you go into Bomber Command?
AE: Well, before I went in the Air Force, I was in the ATC, ATC, and I always used to fly model aeroplanes, so it was just a case of being able to fly in Air Force aircraft, and that’s why I went in the ATC, and then from there I went in the Air Force, in December 1942.
IP: And what made you go into Bomber Command, ‘cause the bomber boys were volunteers as I understand it, is that correct?
AE: I’ve no idea [laughs].
IP: Oh okay.
AE: I don’t know, I don’t, I can’t remember now. But, as a matter of fact, I just went as a flight engineer in Bomber Command, but why I went into it, I’ve no idea.
IP: Okay.
AE: Can’t remember now.
IP: Alright, not to worry. So, you talked a little bit about your training, the physical training at Blackpool. Can you tell me anymore about the training that you got before you became operational?
AE: Erm [pause], I can’t bloody remember about it now, but I know I was in Blackpool for a few months, and did physical training, and, but I can’t remember much about it.
IP: Okay.
AE: I cannot, no, no.
IP: And then after Blackpool, where did you go from there?
AE: Erm, I’m trying to think [long pause]. I can’t bloody remember [laughs].
IP: Okay, but you mentioned to me about, something about St Athan. Were you at St Athan at some stage?
AE: Oh, St Athan. That’s right, in Blackpool, I went down to St Athan, ah yeah. I must have gone there at the beginning of 1943, and I was there for about eight months altogether, and doing the training on the flight engineer’s training, and physical training as well until about October 1943, and then I went to, I think Davidson and Gurrey, no I beg your pardon, no, no, no, no. In October 1943 must have gone to [pause], I just cannot remember.
IP: Did you go to a conversion unit to learn to fly the Lancaster, was that, was that what happened next? Or to fly in the Lancaster I should say.
AE: Possibly. It’ll be in my 1943, 1944 diaries.
IP: Okay.
AE: But otherwise, I just can’t bloody remember.
IP: Okay. Can you remember arriving on your first squadron?
AE: On my first squadron?
IP: Yes, the first squadron you were posted to, to fly operations. Can you remember that?
AE: In Waterbeach.
IP: Can you tell me much about that?
AE: That was in January 1944. I can’t remember much about it, but I know that, the first trip I did was Brunswick, Brunswick, but I can’t remember much about it. I was the flight engineer then, but I honestly cannot remember then. Brunswick and then next week I did Magdeburg, Berlin, Augsburg, Stuttgart, all at Waterbeach, Waterbeach, and then I went to [pause], then I went to, is it Pathfinder, to Little Staughton.
IP: Mm.
AE: Round about March nineteen, April 1944, yeah, yeah. And then from then when I did all my flying, as a Pathfinder, in the Lancasters, until I finished the tour in September 1944, way back.
IP: What happened in September 1944 then, where did you go after that?
AE: I think in September ‘44 I had shingles, shingles, and I went into hospital for a, three weeks, then I had a fortnight’s leave, then I came back and did a bit more, did a bit more time at Waterbeach, no Little Staughton, Little Staughton, Little Staughton, and eventually I went on to Milfield in Wooler, or near Wooler, at the beginning of 1945, beginning of 1945. That right?
JH: Yes, that’s right.
AE: You’ve got a bloody good memory, have I told you before?
JH: A little bit yeah.
AE: Ey?
JH: A little bit, yes.
AE: [Laughs.]
IP: So, can you tell me what happened at Milfield then? What was going on there? What were you doing at Milfield?
AE: I think I went there as [pause] some sort of, erm – I know, I know for three weeks I worked in the ordering department, and then I got fed up, and I went as a drone operator in the Martinets and I flew in the Martinets from [pause] March 1945, until end of 1945, as a drone operator [laughs].
IP: And then what did you do after that? What was the next job, can you remember?
AE: And then I went up to Llanbedr in, that’s in North Wales, and I flew in, what do they call them, Vengeances, Vengeances, and then I got brassed off, I think I was married then, and I just became an airfield controller, until the end of 1946, then I was demobbed, and –
IP: Okay.
AE: And started work again at Vaux’s in 1947.
IP: Okay, so going back to your time on the squadrons, can you sort of describe a typical mission to me? What, what went on in the preparation and the mission itself? Can you remember that sort of thing?
AE: Not much, I can’t remember much [pause]. No, that’s all, on a mission to the, to Germany?
IP: Yes, yes.
AE: Haven’t got a clue.
IP: Okay.
AE: I can’t remember now [laughs].
IP: You’d be told, as I understand it, you would be told in the morning where you were, where the mission was going to be –
AE: Erm –
IP: Towards, so if it was Stuttgart for example, or Brunswick or something like that?
AE: In the morning we were told that, we were told to attend a meeting in the afternoon, and where, and we were told then where the target was, and who would do the bombing, and then in the evening, we would takeoff and do the actual flying, but you’re bringing back a few memories.
IP: Good memories or bad memories?
AE: Oh, oh good memories [laughs].
IP: Okay, would you like to tell me about some of them?
AE: Haven’t got a clue.
IP: Okay.
AE: No, no. No, I can’t remember much about them.
IP: Can you tell me how you found it yourself when you were flying over the cities? Because obviously, there were searchlights and flak and all that sort of stuff, and how, how did that, how did you deal with that as a person, how did you cope?
AE: I think at the time, I was quite frightened, and I certainly couldn’t do it now, because when you’re older, you’re terrified all the bloody time. But any, flying over Germany and what have you, through the flak and what, and the searchlights, you just accept it, accept it, and fly onwards, and do your job as good, as much as possible.
IP: Were the people that went on to Pathfinders hand, were they picked particularly? ‘Cause in my mind, that was, the Pathfinder Force was a particular responsibility, so I don’t know if they take – were they, did they take the best crews from the main force to go onto the Pathfinders, or was it just a normal posting?
AE: I think it was a normal posting, I think so.
IP: Hmm –
AE: [Laughs].
IP: Okay.
AE: I don’t think we were very, very good at, when we were at, it’s Waterbeach, just normal.
IP: Okay.
AE: So, we were sent to Little Staughton as Pathfinders, just because we were, we did five trips. That’s it, we were experienced.
IP: So had you only done five trips at Waterbeach then, before you went to –
AE: Five trips at Waterbeach
IP: Yeah, yeah.
AE: Uh-huh.
IP: Oh goodness.
AE: Er, and then [laughs] went to Little Staughton and did the rest of my tour.
IP: What sort of training did you have to be on the Pathfinders then? Was there additional training?
AE: There was additional training [pause], I think we just used to fly in the Lancasters, and do additional training on target indicating, Pathfinders, just to indicate the target as far as I can remember, but you’re going back a few years, and I just cannot bloody remember [laughs].
IP: That’s right. Is there, is there any particular mission that stands out in your mind? I mean, I know you went to Berlin which would be a, something you wouldn’t forget perhaps, but is there a particular mission that stands out in your mind because something particular happened that might be of interest?
AE: I think the [pause], the mission on, it was in July 1944 when we went to Verrières, Verrières, which I think is just east of Paris, and I think we got clobbered on the way there, and the plane was holed and I think the engines were running roughly, but we went onto the target, dropped the bombs and came back, and that was Verrières in July 1944, and that was the worst aerial bombardment, aerial which we’d had.
IP: So, because you flew towards the end of the war, the bomber force was also flying daylight missions as opposed to night missions. Did you fly daylight missions, and how did you, how different did you find that, to flying at night?
AE: We used to fly daylight missions just to France. That was when the flying bombs were coming over from France to South England, and we used to fly the bomb, we used to attack the bomb, the flying bombsites [laughs]. That was in 1944, and as I say, I used to fly 1944 until September 1944, used to do the daylight missions just on the flying, on the coast of France, and then as far as, I think we went to Paris, Verrières, aye, but didn’t do many night flights [pause] later in the, aye. Although I think I went to Szczecin, Szczecin –
IP: Oh yeah?
AE: Took about nine hours, but that was in August 1944, wasn’t it?
JH: Was that your longest flight?
AE: Szczecin, yeah.
JH: Was that your longest flight?
AE: I think so, took about nine hours. Nine hours and a bit [laughs].
IP: Did you find it stressful?
AE: In those days yes. I wouldn’t be able to do it now, be terrified now [laughs], but I did find it stressful, yes, that’s why I got the shingles at the end of my tour in September and October 1944.
IP: And how did you cope with the stress then, how, as a crew, did you socialise together and that sort of thing or, just to let your hair down a bit as we’d say?
AE: Used to accept it, accept it, yeah. I think most of the crews were quite frightened when they were flying, but they used to, no, act normally afterwards, mhm, yeah.
IP: So, before we move on, I was just wondering, I don’t want to go away from the war too early, you might want to I don’t know but, is there anything, anything else that you can remember about your wartime experience that you think is worth telling us about?
AE: I cannot honestly remember [laughs].
IP: You mentioned – did you get married during the war? You mentioned that you thought you were married –
AE: Oh, God –
IP: Some stage. Where did you meet your wife?
AE: I think she was a WAAF. Is that so?
JH: I don’t know.
AE: Erm, but that was the first time I was married, oh god. I think I met her in 1945, at the end of 1945 when I was at Milfield, and that only lasted about four years [laughs]. Be quiet.
IP: Okay.
AE: Shut up [laughs].
IP: So, you were demobbed in 1946. What, just tell us how your life has gone in general terms since then. You went back to work at Vaux Brewery I understand in –
AE: Vaux Brewery, yes.
IP: In 1947.
AE: Uh-huh.
IP: And then what have you done since then?
AE: Er, at Vaux, I worked Vaux Brewery until, oh [pause] can’t remember, then I went to the British Oxygen Company in Chester-Le-Street for a while, and I started working at Cycle, Cycle.
IP: What do they do?
AE: Erm, they used to supply, Cycle. I can’t remember now. Used to supply lots and lots of goods to local shops, and I think I worked there for about twenty-five years, and that was my last occupation, Cycle.
IP: When –
AE: And I became a clerk and I studied, did a bit of studying and became a chartered secretary as well. Mhm. That was, oh [sigh], way back, 1955, ‘56. Chartered secretary [laughs]. I honestly can’t remember much about it now.
IP: That’s alright, don’t worry about it.
AE: [Laughs].
IP: Now, when the war ended, one of the things that happened was Bomber Command was, people were – I think the best way of describing it was embarrassed by what had happened with the bomber offensive. How did you, how do you find people treated you if they knew you’d been in Bomber Command? Was, did you find, did you have any difficulties?
AE: In Bomber Command – at the end of the war I was at Milfield, and I think at the end of the war everyone was granted about a week’s leave, and I came home and that’s it.
IP: But how were you treated by – when you left the Air Force, how were you treated by people, how did you find people back home? How did they, how did they –
AE: No –
IP: Treat you?
AE: Just the same as when I first went there. Just the same.
IP: What did you think to the way Bomber Command was treated after the war? Do you have a view on that at all?
AE: Way Bomber Command was treated after the war? Just accept it, accept it, but otherwise [sighs], I don’t know.
IP: Okay.
AE: [Laughs].
IP: Okay. Erm, right, so what, were Martinets training aircraft then?
AE: The Martinets were two seaters, they were a development of the Masters, the Miles Master, but the Martinets were designed to tow targets, tow targets, Martinets.
IP: So, what were you towing targets for, was it –
AE: For the benefit of –
IP: Air-to-air firing or –
AE: For the benefit of [pause], of trainee pilots in Typhoons and Tempests, and used to fly over the Holy Island and the Farne Islands, and they used to fire at the, the drogues which were flying, I forget, twelve-hundred feet away from the Martinets, and they used to fly at the drogue, the drogue [laughs].
IP: Did that get at all exciting? Were they good shots or was it a bit dicey at times?
AE: I think they used to attack the drogues all the time, all the time. Mind you, they used to miss them, but when the drogues were dropped at Milfield, the number of holes were counted, and also there were different colours as well. One was blue and red, and then there was naughtered down, and that’s it.
IP: Okay, when you – one thing I was thinking about, when you left the Air Force, how easy did it, you find it to adjust? I mean it’s quite, being in Bomber Command particularly, it’s quite an intensive way to live your life, and then to go back to pretty much your old job –
AE: Vaux’s.
IP: At Vaux’s Brewery, how, how was that adjustment, can you remember?
AE: Quite easy [laughs]. Quite easy, that’s way back in 1940.
IP: So, you just took your uniform off one day and put your suit on another day and carried on?
AE: I think I’ve still got the uniform here.
IP: Wow.
AE: I’ve still got the medals as well, aye, yeah. Although, have you got the uniform?
JH: I think Michael’s got it.
AE: Michael’s got it, ah yeah. But I’ve still got the medals in the box there. Ah [sighs] way back.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Allan Ernest Edwards
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ian Price
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-24
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AEdwardsAE161024
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:30:01 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Allan joined the Royal Air Force in December 1942 as a flight engineer, having been a member of the Air Training Corps before the war. From Blackpool, he went to RAF St Athan for flight engineer training. His first squadron was at RAF Waterbeach, where he went on operations to Brunswick, Magdeburg, Berlin, Augsburg and Stuttgart. Allan then went to RAF Little Staughton to fly as a Pathfinder in Lancasters. He describes a tricky mission to Versailles in France. RAF Milfield followed in early 1945 where Alan was a drogue operator in Martinets. He then flew in Vengeances at RAF Llandbedr, subsequently becoming an airfield controller until he was demobbed.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Northumberland
Wales
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Braunschweig
Germany--Magdeburg
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Augsburg
Germany--Stuttgart
France
France--Versailles
Germany
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sally Coulter
Vivienne Tincombe
207 Squadron
aircrew
coping mechanism
flight engineer
Martinet
Pathfinders
RAF Little Staughton
RAF St Athan
RAF Waterbeach
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/191/3591/LOHaraHF655736v1.1.pdf
557abec419df40658803dece8c9dfd75
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
O'Hara, Herbert
Paddy O'Hara
H F O'Hara
Description
An account of the resource
59 items. The collection concerns the wartime career of Flight Sergeant Herbert Frederick O'Hara (1917 – 1968, 655736, 195482 Royal Air Force). Herbert O'Hara served on 12 Squadron at RAF Wickenby between February and May 1944. His aircraft was shot down over France in May 1944 and he evaded until he was liberated in September 1944. He was then commissioned. The collection contains service records and two logbooks, notification of him missing as well as correspondence from and photographs of French people who helped him evade. In addition there is an account of travelling across the Atlantic for flying training in Florida as well as notes from his aircrew officers course at RAF Credenhill. Finally there are a number of target and reconnaissance photographs and six paintings.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Brian O'Hara and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and IBCC staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
O'Hara, HF
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
France
Germany
Poland
Wales
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
England--Lincolnshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Suffolk
France--Nord-Pas-de-Calais
France--Lyon
France--Mailly-le-Camp
Germany--Augsburg
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Friedrichshafen
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Stuttgart
Poland--Gdynia
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Title
A name given to the resource
Herbert O'Hara's South African Air Force observers or air gunners log book
Format
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One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LOHaraHF655736v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
South African Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1944-02-25
1944-02-26
1944-03-01
1944-03-02
1944-03-15
1944-03-16
1944-03-18
1944-03-19
1944-04-09
1944-04-10
1944-04-11
1944-04-20
1944-04-21
1944-04-22
1944-04-23
1944-04-24
1944-04-25
1944-04-26
1944-04-27
1944-04-28
1944-04-30
1944-05-01
1944-05-02
1944-05-03
1944-05-04
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Log book for Sergeant Herbert O'Hara from 7 November 1942 to 9 September 1962. He was stationed with 12 Squadron at RAF Wickenby, where he flew Lancasters as navigator. The log book shows 14 night operations over France and Germany, with one to Poland. Targets were: Augsburg, Aulnoye, Berlin, Cologne, Dusseldorf, Essen, Frankfurt, Friedrichshafen, Gdynia, Karlsruhe, Lyon, Mailly-le-Camp, Mantenon, Stuttgart. His pilot on operations was Flying Officer Maxwell. The log book is noted DID NOT RETURN beside the last operational flight. It is subsequently noted in Sgt O'Hara's hand that his aircraft was shot down leaving the vicinity of Mailley-le-Camp on 3 May 1944, abandoned by the crew, and that he was in France for 4 months before being liberated and flown home by the Air Transport Auxillary on 3 September 1944. He was subsequently posted to Advanced Flying Units and Flying Schools until finishing in 1962.
12 Squadron
1657 HCU
26 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Bombing of Mailly-le-Camp (3/4 May 1944)
C-47
Dominie
evading
Heavy Conversion Unit
killed in action
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
missing in action
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
prisoner of war
RAF Binbrook
RAF Feltwell
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Penrhos
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Stradishall
RAF Wickenby
RAF Wing
shot down
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/194/27238/BPattisonLEPattisonLEv2.2.pdf
aeeefce175b85bf44c34653c3689d720
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Adams, Herbert
Herbert Adams
H Adams
Herbert G Adams
Description
An account of the resource
88 items. Collection concerns Herbert George Adams DFC, Legion d'Honour (b. 1924, 424509 Royal Australian Air Force). He flew operations as a navigator with 467 Squadron. Collection contains an oral history interview, photographs of people and places, several memoirs about his training and bombing operations, letters to his family, his flying logbook and notes on navigation.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Herbert Adams and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and Trevor Hardcastle.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Adams, HG
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[map of North Wales and the Midlands showing where Herbert Adams was stationed at Llandwrog]
A piece of the map-reading (topographical) map of Midland & Wales. The arrows show the A.F.U’s at Llandwrog & Mona where I & Sid trained. The other 2 arrows are to the castles at Caernarvon & Conway.
[page break]
[extract detailing the methods of use of the Douglas protractor with diagram]
This is one of the simple instruments used a lot in navigation chart work, along with a pair of dividers, a parallel rule & a pencil.
All our chart work was done on Mercator projection maps with a scale of 1:1000000 …. All the meridians were parallel, and latitudes at right-angles but further apart as latitude increased.
[page break]
[map of parts of the Midlands and Wales]
This piece of the Midlands & Wales map-reading map is to a scale of 1:500000 on a modified polyconic projection which results in shapes about as good as possible considering that the earth is spherical. The meridians converge about 5 cm in a map of their size for England’s latitude.
After we finished the A.F.U. course we left, & on 27th March, moved to Lichfield, No 27 OTU (Operational Training Unit) where we were to “crew-up”, and fly in Wellington bombers (designed by Barnes Wallis of Dambusters fame. Lichfield is not for NNE of Birmingham. The town has a nice cathedral
[page break]
At Llandwrog, and all later airfields, we used the Dalton computer for doing flight plans (given track, speed & wind-velocity – it works out course & ground speed.) and for all changes of direction &/or speed. It was a huge improvement on the C.S.C. we used at Cootamundra.
We had the loose-leaf pad disconnected.
[diagram of Dalton Navigational Computer Mk. IIID]
[page break]
[diagram of underside of Navigational Computer Mk. IIIH]
This reverse face of the Dalton computer is really a circular slide rule for quick calulations [sic] of time distance & speed.
The slots allowed setting of altitude and temperature for converting Indicated Air Speed (I.A.S.), to True airspeed; this was used on each leg of a flight plan.
[black and white photograph of a Wellington aircraft in the air]
We were at Lichfield from 27th Mar. to 21st June. We didn’t have our first flight in the Wellington until 20th Apr. the first few days involved “crewing-up” then a lot of ground work; pilots using simulators.
[page break]
[black and white photograph of a Wellington on the ground with airmen in front of it]
VICKERS-ARMSTRONG WELLINGTON
With a range of 3,200 miles and a heavy bomb-carrying capacity, the Wellington has figured prominently in attacks on enemy war concentrations. An all-metal structure, with fabric covering, its distinctive feature is the tail rudder. Wings (span 86 ft. 1 in.) and tailplane taper sharply. Guns are mounted in nose and tail, and a third turret, which is retractable, is situated under the fuselage.
Two 1,000 h.p. Bristol Pegasus XVIII air-cooled engines give a speed of 265 m.p.h. There is a crew of five.
The Wellingtons we flew were Mark X which had more powerful Bristol Hercules engines of about 1600 H.P. each. We crewed-up with 2 gunners who took turns in the rear turret … later on, the Sterlings & Lancasters had a mid-upper turret.
It is certified that I have received instruction in and fully understand the following Crew Drills:-
1. Parachute Drill. 2. Dinghy Drill.
3. Crash Landing Drills.
Date 12/4/44 Signature [signature]
CERTIFIED that I have received instruction on the Wellington III fuel and oil system and that I thoroughly understand the operation of this system and manipulation of the control.
[signature] Officer o/c Synthetic Fuselage. Signed [signature]
This was part of our “ground-work”; if the Wellington flew for more than 4 hours it was the job of the navigator to pump oil to the engines, using a hand-hydraulic pump inside the fuselage.
[page break]
[four drawings of Vickers Wellington aircraft]
[black and white photograph of six airmen standing in front of a hut]
Our crew at Lichfield L. to R. Eric Taylor W.O.P.
Bert Adams. Nav
Ken Nicholls, Rear Gunner.
Ray Giles, Mid-Upper Gunner.
Peter Gray-Buchanan. Pilot.
Sid Payne, Bomb-Aimer.
There was no official direction for crewing up. A couple of days were allowed (& nights in the sergeants mess) for us to “sort our selves [sic] out.” Sid Payne and I made a pair & we went looking for a pilot. I was able to boost Sid’s qualifications by telling that he’d begun as a pilot, passed EFTS on Tiger Moths, but was ‘scrubbed’ near the end of his SFTS on Wirraways … this plus his Observor [sic] training in Australia was the same as mine. Sid had worked, after leaving school, at the main office of the Dept of Road Transport, Bridge St., Sydney.
We joined up with a Pilot-W.O.P. combination from Queensland, looking for a likely nav-bombaimer pair. Both pairs seemed happy with each other. We began looking for gunners.
[page break]
It turned out that the two gunners who’d topped their AFU course had paired up and had a good look at the groups needing gunners. I guess we were lucky that they picked us.
Ken hailed from Sydney. I’m not sure if he’d already married Tina Mitchell from Mudgee or if they wed after the war. Tina’s mother was the live-in caretaker of the A.U.A. rooms in Market St. Ray came from a farmland district in W.A., he was 25 & married; the other 5 of us were all 20. Peter was a very quiet lad from a wealthy family in Brisbane – he’d spent some time as a jackaroo in Western Queensland. Eric was more extrovert and came from Mackay.
For navigation we were introduced to two invaluable aids. The first was the Air Position Indicator, or H.P.I. Up until now we had drawn manual air-plots on the chart, needing to change it for every alteration of course or speed & requiring the pilot to steer his course accurately & keep the speed constant (which may not be convenient over Germany). The A.P.I. had an input of airspeed, corrected for altitude & temperature to give True Air Speed; also it had an input of direction from a big Distant Reading Compass mounted near the tail of the plane (less magnetism from the engines there) which combined magnetic direction & gyro stability (2 seconds from each alternately I think); the resulting [inserted] magnetic [/inserted] direction was sent (by wire) to a V.S.C. above the Nav’s table where he set the Variation for that local area & any compass deviation for that direction thus feeding True directions to the A.P.I. and to the bombsight and to the pilots display.
[page break]
The A.P.I. had 2 knobs and scales. The nav. could set known latitude & longitude, (of his airfield normally), then as the plane flew, regardless of directions & speed changes, the API scales kept track of it all & gave latitude & longitude to the nearest 1 minute ([symbol] nearest 1 nautical mile) [underlined] relative to the air [/underlined] … so we had an automatic air plot.
Therefore if we flew for say 20 min. and got a FIX (known ground LAT + LONG), the difference between the FIX and the API reading would be the wind effect for that 20 min. Plotting both on the chart, measuring with protractor & dividers, allowed the nav. to get the wind velocity.
But getting accurate fixes (up ‘till now) mostly relied on map reading (not possible on dark nights or above cloud.).
Now enter the 2nd aid, called GEE. A box on the nav. table with an oscillograph screen & 2 knobs allowed the nav. to pick up pulsed radio signals from ground stations. The master station triggered 3 other stations (I think about 50 miles apart) and the GEE-box measured the differences in time for the pulses to reach the plane. The nav. only had to pick the better pair, twiddle the knobs to align the blips with that from the master station, flip a switch & read off 2 numbers from a scale, and note the time. We learnt to do that in 1/2 a minute or less. We had special GEE charts, just like our Mercator plotting charts, but overprinted with many curved lines, in 3 colours for the 3 stations, and numbers printed on the curves often enough for us to find where the 2 numbers met. That was our FIX, and it could then be transferred to the plotting chart with dividers.
[page break]
The curves on the charts gradually became to cut at shallower angles at long distances, but all over Britain, and as far as the front line in Germany, the GEE box gave fixed with an accuracy of 1/2 mile or less. This was enormously helpful, even though the Germans jammed the G.EE frequency so that we couldn’t read the blips much beyond the front line. Much of the first week or two at Lichfield was spent learning to use the API and GEE.
[extract detailing the purpose of the Astro Compass Mk. II with photograph]
We carried this in case of emergency, but didn’t have to use it. (I still have one in the shed, souvenired after VE day.)
[page break]
[underlined] AIR NAVIGATION [/underlined]
When we began learning air navigation, we had to rely on our pilot to fly straight and level on the compass course given without any alteration to airspeed. Thus we could keep an airplot, corrected for every change of course, speed or height. Pilots flew at an indicated air speed (IAS), which had to do with stalling-speed safety, but the true air-speed changed considerably with increased height (& a bit with temperature). For example, an IAS of 165 mph at 14000’, -8o C, gave a TAS of 206 mph to use on a manual air-plot. Also, the pilot flew on a magnetic compass course, which the navigator needed to correct to a true course allowing for magnetic variation (it was 11o W at Lincoln) and deviation due to metal in the aircraft (engines, bomb-load) and which varied with the direction flown … hence the need to “swing-the-compass” on the ground to record a deviation chart for use in the air.
A simple manual air-plot could look like this:-
[diagram]
By the time our training (in England) graduated to operational type aircraft (Wellingtons, Sterlings, Lancasters) we had the benefit of an Air Position Indicator (API) … a clever little black box with windows showing latitude & longitude to the nearest minute. These aircraft had a master compass (distant-reading) down towards the tail so that deviation would be minimal, and it fed magnetic direction to a Variation Setting Control (VSC) above the navigator’s table. The navigator set the VSC to the local variation & then repeater compasses for the pilot, bombsight & navigator all read [underlined] true [/underlined] directions.
[page break]
Also, the API had an input of I.A.S. altitude and temperature & (somehow) converted that to T.A.S. (true air speed). The API now had the 2 inputs which enabled it to produce an automatic air-plot, regardless of any changes of direction, speed, height or temperature! For shortish trips, we would set the A.P.I. to read the latitude & longitude of our airfield. On longer trips, or when expecting strong winds, the wind vector could become too long as to be cumbesome [sic] (longer than our parallel ruler). Early in our operations we would reset the API to the lat. & long. of a “good” fix … but after some errors in resetting (& perhaps a “bad” fix) we, later, offset the API to about 1/2 the expected wind vector so that it shrank for the first half of the trip, the [sic] grew again coming home … a much safer and more elegant solution to that problem.
With the API giving us air-position all the time, we now had the ability to find accurate wind-velocities whenever we could get a good fix. The most usual fix was from the GEE-box … a gadget about a 1’ cube size, which picked up radio pulses from ground stations spread across England & linked so that the master station triggered pulses from the other 2 stations. We could twiddle the 2 knobs to line up 2 lots of blips simultaneously, note the time & Air Position, then flick a switch which showed 2 lots of 3-figure “numbers” to draw in freehand arcs on special GEE-charts – and where the arcs crossed was a fix, quite accurate over & near England, less so as we got further away. And the Germans jammed the frequency so that we’d lose GEE about where the front-line existed. This generally meant we had about 2 hours of good wind-finding to allow us to amend the forecast winds sensibly and enable us to proceed to our target on dead-reckoning without seeing the ground for a visual fix.
[page break]
Our first 9 flights in Wellingtons were called Circuits & Landings. The first 6 were with an instructor pilot, then 3 with Peter going SOLO. I practiced GEE fixes (except that GEE-box didn’t work on 4 of them.) We did 4 daylight cross-country navigation trips (4 or 5 hours each) usually combining some bombing & gunnery practice, and 3 pure bombing flights, dropping 12 bombs singly each time. Then 4 dual flights with a pilot instructor at night and 4 more SOLO, circuits & landings. I practiced GEE fixes, and Eric did so on two of those flights. We did 4 night cross-country nav. flights with some gunnery & bombing practice, a gunnery trip with an instructor pilot and 5 gunners aboard, another solely bombing flight at 20000’, with Sid getting an average error of 165 yds. We also did a BULLSEYE flight where we and lots of other Wellingtons flew out over the North Sea as if to attack Wilhemshaven, while a large Bomber Command force flew in towards another target. We were a diversion hoping to divide their night-fighter reaction. We turned back before getting really close to land, saw no fighters nor searchlights, but had the privilege of counting that as one operational sortie.
In total at Lichfield we flew a bit over 77 hours, 1/2 of them at night. We left there for a week’s leave on 14th June. Our first stop was at Birmingham where we changed trains for London. We went first to the Boomerang Club in Australia House where we got the address of a Servicemans Club west of Kensington where we stayed for 17/6 a night, which was OK as we’d been told that London was expensive; we also got 4 lots
[page break]
of free Theatre tickets for stage shows, which we used, & they were worth about 16/- each. We did a couple of tours over some of the old historical places … the Tower, Abbey, St Pauls & the Art Gallery. Our 2 gunners were tee-totallers (a good thing we reckoned, as we knew a lot of gunners who drank a lot & often) so we put in a fair bit of time at cinemas and a visit to the Windmill theatre where music dancing & vaudeville acts seemed to be secondary to their showing of almost-nude girls who posed around the set without moving .. the sets were changed, the girls too, frequently. Most had elaborate headwear, feathers etc. We didn’t get about as a crew all the time. Sid, I think, went to a ballet or two … he often burst into song in bits of Italian while waving arms like a conductor. He did have a nice voice. Peter had some people to visit known to his older brother who’d already done a tour (probably 2 tours by now) as a rear-gunner on Lancasters. I went out to Taplow and revisited Margaret Vyner and her mother … a nice talk with lunch.
Our crew was pleased with the results on our course at Lichfield; I was rated above average & recommended for a commission, perhaps in 3 months. We heard a rumour that we’d next go to a conversion course on Halifaxes, then probably to an RAAF squadron on Lancasters, in 5 Group.
For our final night in London we decided we’d all visit the Savoy Hotel, the poshest nightspot. We had very little money left, so just bought a drink each, listened to the orchestra & prepared to leave.
[page break]
We were all Flight-Sergeants (we got automatic promotion after 6 months) & I guess stood out among the high-ranking officers (many American) and well-heeled Britons. One of them came over & introduced himself & invited us to join his table. We thanked him but said we’d no money, we just wanted to say we’d been to the Savoy. But he said they’d foot the bill, so we joined him & his wife & 2 daughters and an American Colonel. The man was the managing director of Lysaghts at Wollengong. He seemed pleased to hear where we were from and a bit about our training. There was a dance floor and a famous band, Carol Gibbons the leader. The girls wanted to dance. We all said we couldn’t dance, but I said I could waltz OK. Carol was called over & asked to play a waltz. I got up with one of the girls & the music was a jazz-waltz, which I couldn’t manage. (I should have asked for old-time, like the Blue Danube.) We stumbled around for a while, I very embarrassed, and retreated early to the table. Apart from that it was a great night-out, nice food, a few drinks and interesting conversations.
On return we were posted to 5 Group Air Crew Category School, on 21st June, at Scampton, just north of Lincoln. We were there for 10 days, but did no flying there. I can’t remember what we did do but I guess it was some sort of training.
We moved to 1660 H.C.U. (Heavy Conversion Unit) at Swinderby on 2nd July, where the planes were Sterlings … huge planes 100’ long; with tail undercarriage – no danger of losing you [sic] head walking under a propellor, as you can see from this photograph overleaf.
[page break]
[black and white photograph of a Sterling aircraft on the ground with a few airmen around it]
The Short Sterling. Our pilot Peter, hand on wheel, Ken, Sid & Eric at the end of the tailplane, Don Coutts our new Engineer with 2 of the ground crew closer to the plane & me, with Nav. bag & Ray Giles, our mid-upper gunner at the door.
Don, the engineer, had been a policeman in Coventry & Birmingham. He was “old”, about 42 I think. He was born in Scotland; his parents now lived in Ireland.
I read that the Sterling was originally designed to have a greater wingspan, perhaps 120’, but none of the regular hangers could take such width, so they clipped the wing design back without changing the rest of the design. They didn’t have 2-stage superchargers like the Lancasters, and although their big radial engines were more powerful than Merlins they didn’t perform well above about 15000’. So as more & more Halifaxes & Lancasters were built the Sterlings were used as trainers and as glider tugs, particularly in the big Market Garden debacle around Arnhem and in the Normandy invasion.
[page break]
This is about the sextant we carried in the nav. bag on all flights but never used on Operations. It came in a solid carrying box … I still have one that I “souveneered” [sic] after VE day. As well as charts, maps etc we had to carry the current Air Almanac & 1 or more books of A.N. Tables, each book only covered 4o of latitude, in a green canvas carry bag.
[extract detailing the methods of use of the Bubble Sextant with photograph]
[page break]
We did a bit over 48 hours of flying at Swinderby spread over a month. 10 of the 27 flights were with instructor-pilots doing day & night circuits & landings including 2 & 3 engined landings. 3-engined overshoots, corkscrews & banking searches, feathering propellors, fighter affiliation using cine-camera “guns”. Most of the other flights were bombings & gunnery, 3 cross-country nav. trips, and practice at all the other things mentioned above.
One “hairy” landing stands out. We’d had some wet weather & the grass verges beside the runways were boggy. Another pilot, trying to land in a cross-wind touched down with one wheel off the runway – the undercarraige [sic] collapsed & the plane plowed to a stop in the mud. We helped dig the bomb-aimer from the nose (he should not have been there for landing) where he was jammed up into the front turret by mud. The next day we were trying to do a 3-engined landing. The “rule” was, once you got below 1000’ on 3-engines you must land, … I guess the rule applied to emergency situations where the other engine couldn’t be restarted & may be some damage to the plane. Anyway, there was a cross-wind & when we were about to touch down, Peter said “we’re going around”, slammed the throttles forward & told the Engineer to get the 4th engine restarted. My job, on landings, was to call out the airspeed to save the pilot having to look down at the airspeed indicator. The stalling speed with flaps down was about 80 mph, and I’m calling 65, 65, 65 … while Peter juggled the controls to keep us just above the mud.
[page break]
He managed it and once the 4th engine started, the speed built up and we just cleared the hedges beyond the runway’s end. Peter was “dressed down” for ignoring the rule, but I reckon he saved them a Sterling … and us some bruises or worse.
We were moved from Swinderby to Syerston, a bit further S.W. of Lincoln on 12th of Aug. and got a week’s leave at once. I went to Edinburgh; Ray & Don were going to Rugby & Birmingham respectively & the others to London. I had intended joining them after 3 or 4 days, but since it wasn’t long since I’d been there, and they were getting a fair number of VI flying bombs I didn’t bother. While in the bath there someone stole my wallet including my identity card, army discharge papers, my pen & some other papers. Then on the way back to Lincoln, I stopped for a meal at Newcastle & someone stole my gas-mask bag which also held my pay-book, log book, & the few clothes etc. I took for a week. I was in big trouble (reprimanded) for losing the identity car, and inconvenienced for 2 months of no pay, until a duplicate pay-book was arranged. Months later the police at Newcastle sent the log-book back.
A couple of pages on, I’ve underlined the airfields we trained at on the map, with Lincoln near the top, & have shown Waddington & Wigsley underlined too.
At Syerston we converted to Lancasters … it was called 5 L.F.S. (Lancaster Finishing School). We did 9 flights totalling 18 hours, 5 of them with an instructor pilot, doing circuits & landings, 3-engined overshoots & landings, corkscrews & banking searches.
We moved from there to No 467 Squadron (RAAF) at Waddington on 7th of September.
[page break]
I’d forgotten, but while were [sic] still at Syerston we went in to Nottingham to the indoor swimming pool, and practiced dinghy drill … all the crew working together had to learn the technique of turning it upright from being upside down as they may be that way after being automatically ejected & inflated in case the plane crashes in the sea. We managed it OK although it was a shock putting on cold wet Mae Wests before diving into the cold water; I can imagine it might be much tougher at night in a rough sea. We had time for lunch & a wander in the town. Peter has bought a second-hand Ford 10 sedan for $25, which he & Don have “restored” to good running condition. Civilians get no coupons for petrol. Doctors etc. get a ration. Airmen on Operations get about 5 gallons a quarter, with some more if going on leave to a place not serviced by train. I had an auto-cycle … like a pushbike with a tiny 2-stroke engine, and was able to scrounge a little petrol from some of the drivers of the transports which took us out (& back) to the planes … a bottle full now & then. It need [sic] a bit of pedalling going up steep grades. I was given a licence to ride it, drive a car/truck/tractor merely by showing my expired Aussie licence … no test, just pay the small fee.
After settling in to our nice brick, centrally-heated room, 6 of our crew down one side, 6 of another crew on the other side, 8 rooms altogether like that, in our block, with toilets & ablutions in the centre of the [symbol] (same upstairs) all the new crews, 8 of us, assembled in the C.O.s office next day for a welcome talk. The C.O. was Wing Commander Bill Brill, originally from Ganmain.
[page break]
[map of Lincolnshire detailing RAF bases]
He and another young man from Ganmain, Arthur Doubleday, had enlisted early in the war. Both had done 2 tours with Bomber Command. Bill had earned D.S.O., D.F.C and Bar, & I think Arthur had the same decorations … he was then C.O. of 463 squadron also at Waddington, though he soon moved on.
[page break]
One of the things Bill told us Flight-Sergeants was that if we applied for a commission after about 20 Operations he’d recommend anyone who hadn’t done something stupid. What he didn’t say was that he didn’t want to waste time interviewing those who hadn’t got that far because a lot of them wouldn’t. As it turned out, when we finished our tour in Jan ’45, only 3 of the 8 crews remained.
After he finished his welcome talk, he dismissed the other 7 crews, and asked us to go up with him for a dual check, airtest. The reason he favoured us was that Peter’s older brother had been his rear gunner in his first tour. (Years later I met Arthur Doubleday at Wagga where he addressed Air Force Association members. I had an invitation and I mentioned Bill & Peter’s brother. He said “Old Buck eh, I had him as my rear gunner in my second tour.” Small world eh?)
He seemed satisfied with the way Peter handled the Lancaster, until he asked him to do a corkscrew. Then he took over the wheel (the Lanc’s [sic] had dual controls although only 1 pilot in the crew) and showed how he’d do it. He said the Lanc. was tough, you wouldn’t hurt it by being harsh with the controls even with a big bomb load. So it was “down port”, with a vengeance, really steep diving turn, “down starboard” still steep but faster, up port, up starboard as usual – quite harsh on the controls. He had Peter copy him.
When we’d landed he told us that there was an easy daylight Operation on Le Havre coming up on the 10th & he’d put us on for our 1st Op. despite Peter not having first done a “second-dickie” operation with another crew.
[page break]
The next day we did 2 flights, the first a fighter affiliation with cine-camera “guns”, the second a 5 hr 4 min cross-country navigation exercise with 6 bombs at the end, with Sid getting an ‘A’ assessment.
We did our first Operation the next day on Le Havre. I have already done some commentary, along with my original logs & charts for our tour of Ops, so I’ll leave that & just mention that Peter did his “second-dickie” the next night, 11th Sept. on Damstadt; and I’ll digress a bit about the lead up to D-Day and the months that followed, particularly from the viewpoint of Bomber Command.
Up until that time a tour of operations was 30 trips, and 20 more for a second tour. Because Bomber Command (I’ll use B.C. from now on) did so many short trips leading up to D-Day, and for some time after, they raised the quota for a tour to 36 trips, which was the case when we bombed Le Havre. From June to August, B.C. maintained a running battle against VI “buzz-bomb” launch sites & supply depots; these were short trips and once they eased off in August, the quota was lowered to 33 Ops. in mid-September. By the end of ’44, many of B.C.’s ops were longish, so the quota was back to 30 again, in time for us to end our tour on 16 Jan ’45.
When we started Ops, the maximum all-up-weight for take-off was 63000 lb. It was found that Lancasters handled that so well so that it was raised to 65000 lb approaching winter. Then, they replaced the existing Merlin engines with a later Mark, & raised the max. weight to 67000 lb in November. And 617 squadron (Special Ops) later carried the 20000 lb “grand slam” bomb with take-off weight 72000 lb.
[page break]
Here are some Extracts from “The Hardest Victory – RAF Bomber Command in WWII by Dennis Richards. (Hodder & Stoughton, 1994.).
The Transportation Plan, preparatory to OVERLORD … the invasion in Normandy. As part of the plan to convince the Germans that the landings would be in the Pas de Calais, far more bridges & railway workshops & marshalling yards were attacked North of the Seine than South of it. In this phase, B.C. dealt with 37 of the railway targets, American 8th Air Force heavies 26, and AEAF (fighters, fighter-bombers, light & medium bombers & reconnaissance planes, a mixture of RAF & USAAF squadrons) 20. B.C. dropped nearly 45000 tons on these centres, twice the tonnage of the other 2 combined. Harris in “Bomber Command” wrote:- “B.C.’s night bombing proved to the rather more accurate, much heavier in weight & more concentrated than the American daylight attacks, a fact which was afterwards clearly recognised by SHAEF when the time came (later) for the bombing of German troop concentrations within a mile or so of Allied troops.”
In this Transportation phase, B.C. made 69 attacks, flew 9000 sorties & lost 198 planes (1.8 percent loss rate). They caused enormous damage. At the end about 2/3 of the 37 centres were completely out of action for a month or longer, with the remainder only needing some further “attention” from fighter-bombers.
Unhappily, the toll of friendly civilian lives was sometimes more than the “prescribed” limit of 100-150 per raid. (Coutrai 252, Lille 456, Ghent 482), but the overall total was much less than the 10000 people they hoped would not be reached.
The attacks on rail centres by all 3 air forces
[page break]
proved catastrophic for the German armies. Only about 12 percent of rolling stock was fit for use. A division from Poland took 3 days to get to West Germany, then 4 weeks to the Normandy battlefront!
During the struggle in Normandy, B.C. operated in strength close to battlefields. On the night of 14/5 June, 337 planes attacked troops & vehicles at Aunay and Eurecy (near Caen). On 30th June, B.C. did its first daylight raid … 266 Lanc’s [sic] & Hali’s [sic] & a few Mosquitos, with Spitfire escort bombed a road junction at Villers-Bocage from 4000’ and thwarted a Panzer attack. Of B.C.’s 5 other attacks in close support, the biggest was on 18th July … operation GOODWOOD … a maximum effort involving 1056 heavies of B.C. and 863 American bombers to help the push SE of Caen towards Falaise … but bad weather and unsubdued anti-tank guns stopped the push at 6 miles at best. However, it impressed the Germans. Von Kluge, who’d just replaced Rommel, wrote to Hitler on 21st Jul.:- “There is no way by which, in the face of the enemy air forces’ complete command of the air, we can discover a form of strategy which will counterbalance the annihilating effects [underlined] unless we withdraw from the battlefield. [/underlined] Whole armoured formations allotted to counter-attack were caught beneath bomb carpets of the greatest intensity so that they could be rescued from the torn-up ground only by prolonged effort. The psychological effect of such a mass of bombs coming down with all the power of elemental nature on the fighting forces, especially the infantry, is a factor which has to be taken into very serious consideration. It is immaterial whether such a carpet catches good troops or bad. They are more or less annihilated, & above all their equipment is shattered.” (He suicided a month later when Hitler wouldn’t allow a withdrawal.)
[page break]
On 7/8 Aug. (night), 1019 heavies of BC. raided 5 points ahead of Allied troops … helping the Canadian 1st Army to open the way to Falaise.
The Allies had 14000 aircraft against Germany’s 1000 in those weeks. By 3rd Sept the British 2nd Army was in Brussels, but had by-passed the ports which were needed to boost supplies to the troops. Le Havre & Dieppe were left surrounded, but the attack inland aimed at Antwerp (the biggest port) swung inland leaving Boulogne, Calais & Dunkirk and a bit of territory East of the coast still strongly held by Germans, including the Schelt [sic] estuary, leading to Antwerp, which was heavily mined and defended by heavy guns both on its south bank and on Walcheren Island to the North.
B.C.’s resumption of attacks on oil targets were delayed by the V1 threat. Hitler had hoped to begin mass attacks by VI’s on London as a “New Year Present” in Jan ’44, but damage to “ski” sites & raids on the Fiesler works at Kassel, plus their own trouble getting the bomb to function reasonably, caused set-backs. Allied bombing of railways held up deliveries of launchers & bomb components. It wasn’t until 12/13 June that the first VI attacks occurred, & then only 7 of 55 sites managed to launch a total of 10, of which only 3 reached England. But on the 2 nights of 15/6 & 16/7 June, 144 crossed the Kentish coast and 73 reached London.
In operation CROSSBOW, B.C. & 8th US Air Force and AEAF attacked VI sites from Mid-June to mid-August, using 40 percent of B.C.’s strength. Targets were the modified launch sites, supply depots, and “large sites” preparing to launch the big VII rockets.
[page break]
B.C. attacked these day & night; they flew 16000 sorties, & dropped 59000 tons of bombs on VI & VII targets only losing 131 planes, a loss rate of less than 1 percent.
By mid-August, there was less need, because of better defences (A.A. & fighters began using proximity fuses on shells, that with balloons resulted in less than 20 percent reaching their target, and finally the Canadian & British armies over-ran the launching sites.
On every day but one from 5th to 11th September B.C. sent 300 or more heavies to bomb the German-held territory at Le Havre. The total for the week was 2500 sorties dropping 9750 tons. The ground attack there on 11th, after the last air-raid, captured the port, and a lot of Germans with only 50 fatalities. However, the garrison had destroyed the port facilities; it was not able to be used by ships until mid-October. (Our first ‘Op’ was on the 10th, as part of 992 heavies that day.)
A week later, on 17 Sept, BC. did a big raid on Boulogne … 762 heavies, opening the way for an attack by the Canadian Army. The garrison surrendered on Sept 22nd. A quote from a diary of a captured German officer:- “Sometimes one could despair of everything if one is at the mercy of the RAF without any protection. It seems as if all fighting is useless & all sacrifices in vain.”
The Canadian Army captured these 2 ports, plus Dieppe (without a fight), plus the big cross-channel batteries at Cap Gris Nez, losing only 1500 men, but capturing 29945 prisoners. However it took over a month to repair the port at Boulogne, and all of them, including Cherbourg were unable to unload the big crates of heavy equipment from USA … the cranes were beyond repair, so the big crates had to be unloaded in England then ferried across the Channel.
[page break]
This slowing of supplies plus Eisenhower’s reluctance to stop the American armies in the south, especially Patton’s 3rd Army, slowed the Canadian advance on the Schelt [sic] Estuary due to lack of supplies; and probably influenced Montgomery to plan Market Garden without enough support from the British Army, who hadn’t enough supplies. (Bad luck and bad weather & bad radios also contributed to the actual failure of Market Garden.).
[black and white photograph of two men. One laying in bed and one sitting up]
Ken Nicholls & Bert in our room, sergeants quarters at Waddington, late 1944.
[black and white photograph of two men loading bombs into the bomb-bay of an aircraft]
Loading 1000 bombs into D-Dog’s bomb-bay.
[black and white photograph of six airmen standing in front of an aircraft]
Morrie & Rupe (ground crew)
Ken Nicholls, Ken (“ “ mechanic)
Don Coutts, Ray Giles near tail of D-Dog.
Dublin Core
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Title
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H Adams memoir - training and operations
Description
An account of the resource
Shows maps of North Wales and the Midlands as well as an explanation of the Douglas protractor as well as diagrams of the Dalton computer and photographs of Wellington. Describes training at RAF Lichfield from end of March to 21 June 1944. Shows photograph of his crew which he describes as well as crewing up process. Describes navigation techniques in great detail using air position indicator, GEE and astro and crew navigation procedure. Describes first trip in Wellington as well as subsequent training flights. Goes on to describe post course leave including visits to the theatre and historical places in London as well as other activities. Goes on to describe training at RAF Swinderby on Heavy Conversion Unit flying Stirling. Describes flights including one hairy landing. Then moved to Syerston where they did Lancaster Finishing School before moving to RAF Waddington 467 Squadron. Describes arrival on squadron and first operation to Le Havre. Writes that because of short trips during Normandy campaign tours were now extended to 36 trips as well as describing bomber command's targeting strategy. Then provides some extracts from "The Hardest Victory - RAF Bomber Command in WWII by Dennis Richards". Followed by photographs of people and aircraft.
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H G Adams
Format
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Twenty-eight page handwritten document
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Map
Photograph
Technical aid
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Conforms To
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Pending review
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Wales
England--Staffordshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--London
France
France--Le Havre
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-03-27
1944-06-21
1944-08-12
1944-06-14
1944-06-15
1944-06-30
1944-07-18
1944-08-07
1944-08-08
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Tricia Marshall
Identifier
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BPattisonLEPattisonLEv2
1660 HCU
27 OTU
467 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
bombing
crewing up
Gee
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
RAF Lichfield
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Mona
RAF Swinderby
RAF Syerston
RAF Waddington
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1239/16172/CCattyMA-180822-010006.2.jpg
4a80c8e64cf72da5a56c88e37fc23044
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Title
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Catty, Martin Arthur. Gee charts
Description
An account of the resource
Nine items. Miniature Lattice Chart book containing charts for Great Britain and the surrounding seas.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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CCattyMA-180822-01
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Title
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Fishguard-Le Havre
Description
An account of the resource
Gee chain chart, sheet 1 covering the south of England and Wales and the very north of France.
Date
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1943-02
Format
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One printed chart
Language
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eng
Identifier
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CCattyMA-180822-010006
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England
Wales
France
Great Britain
Creator
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Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Map. Navigation chart and navigation log
Map
aircrew
Gee
navigator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2144/37057/PFieldPL19070015.1.jpg
ded0e41724985279cb0e98cbe9eacf22
Dublin Core
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Title
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Field, Peter L and Cynthia G. Photograph album 4
Description
An account of the resource
22 items. Photograph album covers, eighteen double pages of photographs of family events, places and people as well as three stand alone photographs.
Date
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2017-09-19
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Field, PL-CG
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Family photographs
Description
An account of the resource
Right page:
Top left - woman sitting in chair in garden.
Top right - woman and a man sitting alongside each other on chairs in garden with trellis behind them.
Bottom left - a man wearing suit and tie and woman wearing dress standing side by side in a doorway.
Caption on spine 'Wimbourne 1976'.
Right page:
Captions on spine from top to bottom 'Central Wales, 1961', '1961', 'Wales 1961'.
Top - woman wearing skirt ad top walking across slope of mountain with valley and other mountain in the distance.
Bottom left - woman standing on mountainside looking over valley at rock outcrops on far side.
Bottom right - half length image of a woman wearing striped top.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1976
1961
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1976
1961
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales
England--Dorset
England--Wimborne Minster
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Six colour photographs mounted on two album pages
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PFieldPL19070015
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/184/3574/LSandersDS1869292v1.2.pdf
c6d8981948ad019c01c5ab80b2140bb0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sanders, David
D S Sanders
Description
An account of the resource
19 items. The collection contains an oral history interview with Sergeant David Stuart Sanders (1925 - 2022, 1869292 Royal Air Force), his logbook, engineering documentation, operation schedules, a personal record of all his operations, a Dalton computer, a number of target and reconnaissance photographs. David Saunders was a flight engineer on 619 Squadron and 189 Squadron at RAF Strubby and RAF Fulbeck in 1944-45.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Sanders and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Sanders, DS
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
David Sanders's flying log book for navigators, air bombers, air gunners and, flight engineers
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Germany
Great Britain
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Wales
Belgium--Brussels
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Flensburg
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Munich
Germany--Sassnitz
Germany--Steinfurt (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Netherlands--Veere
Norway--Bergen
Norway--Tønsberg
Poland--Gdynia
Poland--Police (Województwo Zachodniopomorskie)
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1945
1944-10-06
1944-10-11
1944-10-14
1944-10-15
1944-10-28
1944-10-29
1944-10-30
1944-11-21
1944-11-22
1944-11-26
1944-11-27
1944-12-09
1944-12-12
1944-12-18
1944-12-19
1945-02-02
1945-02-03
1945-02-08
1945-02-09
1945-03-03
1945-03-04
1945-03-05
1945-03-06
1945-03-07
1945-03-08
1945-03-12
1945-03-14
1945-03-15
1945-03-20
1945-03-21
1945-03-22
1945-03-23
1945-03-24
1945-04-23
1945-04-25
1945-04-26
1945-05-06
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One handwritten logbook
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LSandersDS1869292v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
The log book covers the operational career of flight engineer David Sanders from 5 July 1944 to 29 May 1945. He joined 619 Squadron at RAF Strubby on 28 September 1944, from where he flew Lancasters on two daylight and three night time operations before being transferred to 189 Squadron at RAF Fulbeck in November 1944. From 21 November 1944 he flew a further four daylight and 14 night time operations, again in Lancasters. The majority of the targets his operations were over Germany, plus two to Poland, two to the Netherlands, and two Norway: Bergen, Bohlen, Braunschweig, Bremen, Dortmund, Flensburg, Gdynia, Hamburg, Heimbach, Karlsruhe, Lutzkendorf, Munich, Police, Sassnitz, Steinfurt, Tønsberg, Veere. His pilots on operations were Flying Officer Carter and Flight Lieutenant Barron. Later log book entries are about Operation Exodus (Brussels).
1661 HCU
189 Squadron
619 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
flight engineer
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Operation Exodus (1945)
RAF Bardney
RAF Dunholme Lodge
RAF Fulbeck
RAF St Athan
RAF Strubby
Stirling
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1823/32458/PKentKD17010014.1.jpg
28422c2cbd35dc3f62afe4c9fffde00a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kent, Kenneth D
K D Kent
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Kent, KD
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Kenneth Kent (b. 1922, 572440, 55219 Royal Air Force) and contains a photograph album and documents. He joined the RAF as an Apprentice in 1936, starting his training at RAF Halton later going to RAF Cosford. He completed his training as an aircraft tradesman and was promoted to corporal. He volunteered for aircrew and went to the United States and Canada for flight training in July 1942. He was commissioned in July 1943 and was posted to 106 Squadron at RAF Metheringham. He was promoted to Squadron Leader in August 1945.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Nigel Kent and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Course photographs 1942
Description
An account of the resource
Two photographs, first is formal photograph, 61 individuals posed in thee rows, in front of brick building with large windows. Captioned 'No 38 SFTS RAF Estavan, Saskatchewan, Canada, December 1942.
Second is of 43 aircrew trainees and four staff, posed in four rows in front of imposing building, captioned No 6 ITW Aberystwyth, Wales May 1942.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942-05
1942-12
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two b/w photographs on an album page
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PKentKD17010014
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
England
Wales
Canada
Saskatchewan
Great Britain
Great Britain
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-05
1942-12
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
aircrew
Flying Training School
Initial Training Wing
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/147/1572/LColeC1605385v1.2.pdf
146cc1c3261e10e2ec1fd6bc26ecd692
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cole, Colin
C Cole
Colin Cole
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection relates to Warrant Officer Colin Cole (1924 – 2015 RAF Volunteer Reserve 1605385) who served with 617 Squadron. The collection contains two oral history interviews his, logbook, service documents, medals, memorabilia from the Tirpitz and six photographs.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Six items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties or to comply with intellectual property regulations. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-01-27
2015-07-27
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cole, C
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Colin Cole's navigator's, air bomber's, air gunner's and flight engineer's flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Navigator’s, air bomber’s, air gunner’s and flight engineer’s flying log book for Warrant Officer Colin Cole from 5 August 1943 to 23 September 1946. Detailing training schedule and operations flown. Served at RAF Yatesbury, RAF Mona, RAF Barrow in Furness, RAF Market Harborough, RAF Winthorpe, RAF Syerston, RAF Woodhall Spa, RAF Digri (Bengal) and RAF Scampton. Aircraft flown were Anson, Proctor, Dominie, Wellington, Stirling, Lancaster and Lincoln. He carried out a total of ten daylight and one night-time operations with 617 Squadron at RAF Woodhall Spa as a wireless operator on the following targets in Germany, Netherlands, Norway and Poland: Bergen, Dortmund-Ems Canal, Hamburg, Ijmuiden, Lützow, Oslo Fjord, Rotterdam, Tirpitz Tromsø, Urft Dam and Viesleble [sic] (actually Bielefeld) viaduct. <span>His pilots on operations were </span><span data-ccp-props="{"201341983":0,"335559739":200,"335559740":276}">Flight Lieutenant Leavitt and Flight Lieutenant Price. </span>Annotations include bombing the Tirpitz and an attack by an enemy jet aircraft. Operation Exodus and Cook’s tour flights are included, as is a tour of India in 1946.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LColeC1605385v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Pakistan
Norway
Pakistan
Poland
Wales
England--Cumbria
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Wiltshire
Wales--Anglesey
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Oslofjorden
Germany--Bielefeld
Germany--Dortmund-Ems Canal
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Schleiden (Kreis)
Pakistan--Digri
Netherlands--Ijmuiden
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Norway--Bergen
Norway--Oslo
Norway--Tromsø
Pakistan--Digri
Poland--Świnoujście
Germany--Urft Dam
Netherlands
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1946
1944-11-12
1944-11-13
1944-12-08
1944-12-11
1944-12-29
1944-12-30
1945-01-12
1945-02-14
1945-02-22
1945-02-24
1945-04-09
1945-04-13
1945-05-08
1945-05-10
1945-05-15
1945-09-27
1945-09-29
14 OTU
1661 HCU
617 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Cook’s tour
Dominie
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lincoln
Me 262
Operation Catechism (12 November 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Guzzle
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Barrow in Furness
RAF Market Harborough
RAF Mona
RAF Scampton
RAF Syerston
RAF Waddington
RAF Winthorpe
RAF Woodhall Spa
RAF Yatesbury
Stirling
submarine
Tiger force
Tirpitz
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1881/36282/SChristianAL29160v10005-0001.1.jpg
bafa44abd9bdc8577f521ac92b6402a3
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1881/36282/SChristianAL29160v10005-0002.1.jpg
5214838e98a691805e89578fd922dbab
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1881/36282/SChristianAL29160v10005-0003.1.jpg
89e83670129bd78b506027cd2c60b74d
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Christian, Arnold Louis
A L Christian
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-06-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Christian, AL
Description
An account of the resource
93 items. The collection concerns Wing Commander <span>Arnold Louis</span> <span>Christian </span>(1906 - 1941, 29160 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents and photographs. He flew operation as a pilot with 105 Squadron and was killed 8 May 1941.<br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Steven Christian and catalogued by Barry Hunter.<br /><br />Additional information on <span>Arnold Louis</span> <span>Christian</span> is available via the <a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/204958/">IBCC Losses Database.</a>
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
INTRODUCTION
The idea to put together the ‘Christian’ family history first took shape around 1992 when Diana Pick, my stepmother-in-law on a visit home to the UK from New Zealand, made the suggestion that it could prove an interesting undertaking. I think her curiosity was piqued by my telling her the family story of possible French descent and, like many other people, her assumption that in some way we were connected to Fletcher Christian of Mutiny on the Bounty fame. A keen amateur genealogist herself, she offered to research through the Morman [sic]church records she used when she got back to New Zealand. No on-line research in those days.
The story of a possible French connection in the Christian family was first told to me by grannie. (As a point of reference, grannie is Catherine Allan Christian, and grandpa is her husband Arnold Louis Christian. I will mention them as grannie and grandpa throughout any narrative). Grannie told me that the handed down story suggested that the Christians had French blood through an ancestor who had been, it was believed, a second secretary at the British embassy in Paris sometime in the C19th, and had married a French women [sic] but no-one knew who, where or when. This was the explanation for why the name Francis and Frances often seemed to appear as Christian family names ie; grandpa’s sister Vera had the middle name Frances, their brother Norman, father Vincent and Uncle Victor had all had Francis as a middle name and, as it turned out, that was their grandfather’s anglicised name too.
Grannie also told how her mother-in-law, Gertrude Louisa Christian, (nee Barley), would claim that ‘we are descended from Italian and French royalty!’ Quite who she meant by ‘we’ wasn’t clear – was it we the Christians, (which wouldn’t apply to her), or was she referring to the Barley’s from she descended?
I first began to wonder if there was some validity to the tales when I stayed for a few days as an adult visitor with Gt. Aunt Vera whose home in North Wales stood on the farm owned by her daughter Audrey. On the dining room mantelpiece stood two brass ornaments. One of these was a small table bell but in the form of a women [sic] wearing a crinoline dress, (the bell), and around the base of which was the French inscription ‘Vive la empress’. The second ornament was the uniformed figure of a man with the inscription “Vive le Emperor’. (I later found out that these were of the French Emperor Napoleon III (the last French monarch – died 1873 and his wife the Empress Eugenie). I asked Aunt Vera where these had come from and she said her parents. She also mentioned French blood but wasn’t sure from where precisely. The ornaments were still there on subsequent visits I made during the time I was stationed in the RAF at Valley, Anglesey in the mid 1970’s.
Much of the family ‘knowledge’ that I have, such as it is, I have by word of mouth from grannie which also includes here own Cordner and Barrass families, as well as the Barleys who were grandpa’s maternal antecedents. The Povey’s – other than grandpa’s grandmother, Emma, who had this surname before her marriage to James Barley – did not enter the picture until much later in the research.
In addition to receiving much information from the endless questions I asked of grannie over the years, both as a child and as an adult, I had the opportunity on some occasions to gain information from others in the family. While at school I used to write quite regularly to my Great, Great Aunt Molly, (originally a Cordner), and as mentioned earlier visited Gt Aunt Vera & Cousin Audrey a number of times. Through Audrey I was able to write to grandpa’s younger brother Norman, who Gilly and I subsequently visited once at his home in Leeds. Second to grannie, Audrey was a big source of information, albeit sketchy, and of photographs. The wedding photographs here of grannie and grandpa’s wedding came from Aunt Vera’s album, (Audrey was the bridesmaid). Many years later grannie also put me in touch with her niece, Christine Molly, (nee Cordner), who was researching the Cordner & Barrass families. We have met a few times and now correspond quite regularly. It is Christine we have to thank for the Cordner and Barrass family trees. As part of my research, inspired by Diana Pick, Gilly and I spent a few days with Audrey in 1994. Here we were able to see a large album of postcards, sent to and from the family. The postcards mainly covered the first three decades of the C20th, and gave vital clues as to names, addresses and dates of residence – all by postmarks. Additionally, Audrey showed us around the local area – Ruthin & Birkenhead – where grandpa grew up. This included Ruthin school where he and brother Norman were educated, the public houses run by his mother Gertrude and possibly his father Vincent too, and
[page break]
the home in Birkenhead – 4 Devonshire Road – from where the family ran the Birkenhead Motor Works and later Bolton’s Grey Cabs.
As previously mentioned, the most informative source of information at the personal level was grannie. As children we often lived within an hour or two of her home in Oxford and, consequently, we saw quite a lot of grannie and auntie June. Later, and now in the RAF myself, I was fortunate to have two consecutive postings over an eight year period within two hours of grannie, and a further three year posting at only forty five minutes away and was able to make many visits to her.
As a young boy I had been fascinated by grandpa’s RAF story and, as usual, always wanting to hear it again. Grannie was bombarded with many questions but never resented them. I think she knew the interest was deep and genuine and she seemed happy to answer them. Later, when I was an older child, she went through the photographs she had of her and grandpa’s life and his RAF days – telling me of the stories and events that surrounded them.
As a fifteen year old schoolboy I spent a few days with grannie during a half-term and remember a long discussion we had. I asked her many questions, mainly about grandpa, the war years and life afterwards which may have brought back many memories for her, some of which may have been upsetting. However, she did not seem to be so and was happy, as always, to answer those questions.
When beginning the research into the Christian family the first decision was where to start. The obvious place was with grandpa’s father, Vincent Francis, (known as Pom-Pom within the family although the reason remains a mystery), but even here there was little to go on. No-one seemed to know who is [sic] parents had been or where they had lived, or their occupation. It appears that from the 1930’s onwards, and once his children had reached adulthood, Vincent lived apart – although in occasional contact – from his family. From this point knowledge of his movements and employments is particularly sparse. Grannie told me that from the time she married grandpa in 1932 until Vincent’s death in 1964, she had only met him on about four occasions. She did say that he was always a smartly dressed, well-spoken and upright gentleman, but one not much given to talking. By 1994 he, his wife Gertrude and two of his children, Vera and grandpa, were dead. Norman’s whereabouts, or if even alive were not known by grannie although she did know that Vincent had been cared for, towards and at the end of his life, by his daughter Vera, and although she too was now dead her daughter Audrey was the most likely source for any further information. This was when Gilly & went to see Audrey and were able to see & make notes from the postcards she held and previously mentioned. Many of these – the major form of short communication in the early C20th – were written by Vincent when on his travels as a commercial traveler. [sic] However, even Audrey was unable to throw much light onto Vincent’s life or earlier family, but she knew that his son Norman was still alive and living in Leeds. It was from Audrey that we received his address and was subsequently able to write and visit him. In compiling this ‘history’, I have constantly been amazed at how little closely related individuals knew of each other, but then I am judging it from the perspective of a modern world with many varied and instant communication methods. In fairness, in the more deferential, perhaps respectful and less connected world that existed before WW2, privacy was expected and less exposed. Aunty June readily admits that I have more information about her father, grandpa Arnold, than she does herself, and this was also true of my father Brian, and yet the source of my information was their mother, grannie! We were still no further forward with where Vincent came from and a search at the National Records Office yielded nothing further. In 1995 I corresponded with Gt. Uncle Norman but little of substance came of these letters, (in this archive). I followed this up with a visit to Norman, the first and last time I ever met him, but his knowledge of Vincent was as sketchy as the rest and so nothing new was revealed.
In the meantime, Diana Pick in New Zealand was plodding away on my behalf with searches where possible and every so often would write with information which she felt could be a ‘lead’. Usually though, while one or two names might fit, the dates and locations wouldn’t, or vice versa, and the lead would have to be discarded. In 2004 Diana telephone to say that she thought she had finally found Vincent’s family, and that they came from Switzerland. My father Brian was quite taken with the idea of being of Swiss descent, but had said previously that he would rather not be of French or Italian extraction. Needless to say, the Swiss connection when the papers finally arrived proved to be another blind alley. In 2006 not long after Brian’s death, Diana again telephoned to say that this time she really had found Vincent’s parents & siblings, and that the evidence was incontrovertible. And so, upon arrival, it proved to be. There was Vincent’s birth & marriage certificates, and those for each of his siblings bar one. The dates, locations and names all matched the known but patchy information already held. The documentation itself gave two further steps forward the first of which was more information that could be explored – previously unknown names, addresses, occupations etc from birth or
[page break]
marriage certificates, but the second was the proof that there was French ancestry – Vincent’s mother was French, (Eualalia Bons), Vincent was half French! More than that, his father was Italian, (Francesco Cristini). There it was on the paper, Brian’s jesting dread, he was of both French and Italian descent, and relatively closely so too. The claims of Gertrude proved to be founded, in fact. Something I have learned, at that point and since, is that usually family stories have some basis in truth – it’s just that with the passing between generations they become distorted.
It is interesting to note from the documents available that the names Cristini and Christian were interchanged before they finally settled into the anglicised version of Christian. As the family of Francesco and Eulalia became more integrated into British life and had their children it will have become more necessary that the name reflected the English version, particularly perhaps for Vincent and his older brother Victor, who would have to enter the wider society of employment after school and would therefore probably find it much easier to be a Christian than a Cristini. Interestingly, their sister Beatrice seems to have retained Cristini right through to her marriage and maybe that was the standard of the time – it would have been less important for a girl to have an anglicised name since she was far more likely to go from the home of her parents to her new husband’s home. First names too became anglicised, Francesco becoming Francis – another mystery solved – why so many holders of the name Francis or Frances in the family!
Having ‘found’ Vincent in verifiable documentation, we also found his father so what of Francesco or Francis? It is believed from the documentation held that he and Eulalia probably arrived in England around 1868/69. In the 1881 census, both he and Eulalia were shown as being born in C1845 which would put them in their early twenties. From the death certificate of their second child, Alfred, Francis’ profession was ‘book-keeper.’ As we follow him through subsequent births and marriages we see that he progresses to ‘teacher of languages’ and ‘professor of languages’. Italy, at the time of Francis’ birth was not a state as Britain was, but comprised of small principalities and dukedoms which had a huge agricultural peasant base. One therefore wonders at his education and societal level. He must have been numerate to be able to book keep, and literate too. He could obviously speak, (and teach), more than one language. He obviously also travelled from Italy, through France at least, to England and married along the way. To do this, and to have the level of education he appeared to have, assumes that he came from a reasonably affluent family. Francis died sometime between the marriage of his daughter in 1902 and of his eldest son, Victor, in 1906. Where he was living at the time is, as yet, un-researched. Of his wife, Eulalia, nothing beyond the probable year of birth, her nationality and her maiden name of Bons, is known or researched. She had the ability though to make the registration in 1872 of the death of her son Alfred.
The real ‘Christian’ family history therefore begins, most significantly, with the children of Francis and Eulalia and for me, my siblings and cousins, with their fourth child and second son, our Great Grandfather, Vincent Francis Christian – born Cristini.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Christian Family History Introduction
Description
An account of the resource
A biography of the Christian family written by Arnold's grandson. There appears to be a connection to France, perhaps to Italian and French royalty. Later research suggested a Swiss connection but after research the Italian and French links were confirmed.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Personal research
Format
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Three printed sheets
Identifier
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SChristianAL29160v10005-0001, SChristianAL29160v10005-0002, SChristianAL29160v10005-0003
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Birkenhead
England--Leeds
England--Oxford
New Zealand
Wales
England--Yorkshire
England--Lancashire
England--Oxfordshire
Conforms To
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Pending text-based transcription. Under review
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/119/2485/MThomasWH152984-150721-01.1.pdf
6e05ffb1f503d2bba606b04b23c36c98
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
WILLIAM HEDLEY THOMAS (AGE 93)
My first interest in the RAF came in 1938 while I was a pupil at Redruth Grammar School in Cornwall, when a flight of the Air Defence Cadet Corps was formed there and I became a member. I am sure its formation occurred because Mr Weatherall our Headmaster had been a fighter pilot in the First World War which really instIlled interest in those of us aged 16 and above. I remained a member of ADCC until August 1939 when I left school for employment.
When the Air Training Corps was formed in 1941 I joined the flight which was formed in Redruth where we had the usual instruction in Morse code, and navigation, shooting and of course drill (dreaded drill). We were fortunate to have visits to RAF Portreath aerodrome and that is where I had my first flight, in a Miles Magister. It was great!
I volunteered and was accepted for aircrew training in August 1941 and placed on deferred service and continued as a member of the ATC, reaching for the dizzy height of Sergeant! While awaiting my call-up to the RAF I had to register for National Service but informed the officials that I was already a member of the RAF and gave them my service number. Two or three weeks later I had call-up papers from the Army! I called the registration office and they said no problem we will sort it. However after another week I had a forceful letter from the Army telling me to report to depot or other, by such and such a date or they come and fetch me! Panic!
Fortunately we had a family friend who was an Army officer in the First World War and he contacted the Army on the phone using language I was not then used to and I heard no more!
So eventually, in February 1942 I was called up by the RAF and went to the aircrew reception centre in London. I reported, as so many had done, to Lord’s cricket ground for registration. We were provided with a uniform (which was tailored to fit) and received the first batch of injections. We were billeted in what had been serviced apartments in Prince Albert Road, quite close to Regents Park zoo. Here we had various lectures, a lot of drill and endured an extremely cold London.
Then came our posting to Initial Training Wing at a very much warmer Aberystwyth in West Wales. Here we received training in navigation, Morse code and RAF Law besides large doses of more drill, physical training and sports.
I enjoyed the course at ITW very much, especially as I knew it was the beginning of flying training. As I said earlier the weather at Aberystwth was warm and we rarely needed to wear greatcoats (which we did in London) and by June, when the course ended, it was a really warm summer. I learned that I had passed the course ended, it was a really warm summer. I learned that I had passed the course and was promoted to the exalted rank of L A C (more pay too!).
I was then posted to Sywell in Northamptonshire to begin training as a pilot. Unfortunately I failed the course because my landings were deemed dangerous and I was unable to go solo. Mind you, I did not get on very well with my instructor who was over 6 feet tall, as against my 5 foot six and as he sat in the front cockpit what chance had I of seeing straight ahead? No contest!
From Sywell I was posted in July 1942 to Heaton Park, Manchester, which was a holding unit for potential aircrew awaiting the decision as to my future training, along with quite a number of others. We were then sent to Hastings, another holding unit, where we were billeted in a large block of flats (Marine Court) right on the seafront. We were only at Hastings for about three weeks because one afternoon at about 4 PM on our return from the sports afternoon, a German aircraft on a hit-and run sortie dropped a smallish bomb on one end of the building. Fortunately no-one was injured, however it caused perhaps the fastest reaction I have ever experienced. By 4 AM the next morning
[page break]
we were getting on a train (with a day’s dry rations) and we were taken to Harrogate to yet another holding unit!!
I enjoyed Harrogate very much where we received the usual few lectures and drill and bags and bags of sport. Harrogate was a great posting, especially as there were lots of young ladies there who were the clerical staff of the General Post Office who had been evacuated there from London!
I was eventually brought out of my reverie by a posting back to Heaton Park with a few dozen other bods, where we were informed as to our future training which for me was as a navigator/bomb aimer. This we were given to understand, would not be in Great Britain but overseas, as part of the Empire Air Training Scheme.
It was in late November 1942 that King George the Sixth sent me to Canada, aboard the Queen Elizabeth, to train as a navigator/bomb aimer, thus enabling the rest of the country to get on with the war. To my delight, I was informed that I would not have to pay my own fare.
The memories of that voyage are still with me. I remember approaching the liner on a small tender and being showered with toilet rolls which were thrown by the disembarking aircrew who had returned to the UK sporting their wings. Not to be outdone, we advised them to hang on to the toilet rolls, as there was a shortage of that commodity in our war-torn homeland.
Once aboard, I was given a job as a kind of security guard (along with 20 or 30 others) to prevent smoking in any place other than the cabins. I remember pointing out to Edward G Robinson that such a rule existed, when I spotted him and a large cigar waiting for the Lift. He promptly took a deep puff on the cigar, stepped into the lift and said with a smile, “Is that so. Bud?”
We had quite a large number of well-known people (including Douglas Fairbanks) on board and to our delight, they provided several evenings of entertainment for us during the crossing. The meals were very good and it was a special treat for us to be served with white bread after eating since 1939, the sandy brown standard wartime loaf.
We took several days on the voyage since we were sailing unaccompanied a long way south before turning and travelling up the Eastern seaboard of the United States. We were informed that the detour had taken place because a U-boat pack had been detected in mid Atlantic. Good intelligence and communication obviously saved us and I understand that Lord Haw-Haw had reported us as sunk on two occasions. We sailed into New York harbour and docked adjacent to the Queen Mary and the Ile-de-France, the latter lying on her side after suffering a major fire some time earlier.
Whilst most of those on board were allowed to disembark, I found myself appointed as a member of the baggage party. About 30 of we unfortunates were given the task of unloading the rest of the RAF contingent kit bags. As a result, at the end of the day we were still aboard but were delights that that evening to be served with the most terrific meal which we considered to be a just reward for our hard labours as baggage handlers.
The next morning we disembarked and after being transported by coach to Grand Central Station, we caught a train that would transport us to Moncton in Canada. But all did not go smoothly, because en route, we were involved in a train crash. The crash was on the Gaspie Peninsula, at the mouth of the St Lawrence River when a freight train, with a huge cargo of logs crashed into us while we were waiting at a small country station. Fortunately we, the RAF contingent, only sustained a few cuts and bruises.
[page break]
Mainly because of the steel constructions of the trains in Canada we were lucky indeed. Further luck for four of us who got invited by the daughters of a nearby farming family to have some breakfast. We accepted and trudged across two large snowbound fields to the farmhouse. Just as we finished, breakfast, we were told that a relief train had arrived at the station to take us on to our destination Moncton. We missed it! However we boarded the next train and we were met in Moncton by an NCO, a sergeant I think, who told us off and then we boarded transport to the camp. It was pointed out to us that the rest of the party had to march there so we were lucky again!
Moncton, on the eastern seaboard of Canada, was another holding unit where we awaited posting to the start of our real training. However we were at Moncton for Christmas 1942 and also over the New Year in Arctic like whether with plenty of snow. A case of infectious disease, scarlet fever I think, caused member of the hut I was in to be in quarantine for some weeks until finally our posting arrived.
In February 1943 I was posted to number six bombing and gunnery school at Mountain View, Ontario where we practiced gunnery in Bolingbrokes, the Canadian version of the Blenheim, as well as on the gunnery range. We then turned out attention to flying in Ansons and practised dropping practice bombs. This seems to have taken quite a while really because it was the end of March 1943 before we left Mountain View for Number 8 Air Observer School at Ancienne Lorette, Quebec, to begin navigational training.
The navigation course at number eight air observer school at Ancienne Lorette, lasted from early April 1943 to early August 1943 and as well as air day and night navigation trips averaging around three hours each, we did a lot of classroom work including a navigation exercises, meteorology, signalling, aircraft recognition and armament together with a lot of practice work in the air and on the ground on astro-navigation.
At the end of the course I learned that I had passed and took my place on the passing out parade to receive my Observer brevet and also I was delighted to find out that I had been granted a commission.
We were then, after three weeks leave which I spent with my uncle and his family in Toronto, posted to Number 1 General Reconnaissance School at Prince Edward Island in the Gulf of St Lawrence River, where for three weeks we were to carry out navigation trips over the sea using what is termed dead reckoning navigation, by star or sun shots, taking bearings from radio transmissions to find our position. We learned how to identify all the naval ships of the world, quite a task. I found this course both challenging and interesting and I was glad to hear that I had received a pass which I hoped would lead me to be a navigator on coastal command when I returned to the UK.
At the end of the course at the beginning of October 1943 we were posted again to Moncton to wait before being shipped back to Great Britain. This did not happen until December 1943 when I returned on the Aquitainia, quite a nice ship but not so well appointed as the Queen Elizabeth. We landed back at Gourock and travelled down to Harrogate.
Harrogate was still a holding unit and there was quite a large number of aircrew gathering there from training in Canada and South Africa, eagerly awaiting postings to operational training units. In my case along with others from course in Canada, it was to be another three months before we got such a posting. I, of course, wanted to be sent to Coastal Command, which is what our extended training had been for, but it was not until early in April 1944 that we were told that we were to go to Wigtown in Scotland. On enquiry we were told that this was an advanced training unit for bomb aimers. We tried to argue that
[page break]
surely all the training in Canada that we had received ought to be for carrying out duties as navigators in one of the RAF commands. We were told that there no chance whatsoever of this and off to Wigtown we went. You can imagine there was quite a lot of disgruntled bods there but we decided that we must grin and bear it. We were told to remove our coveted and hard earner observer brevet and replace them with the B brevet and this produced a lot of very upset and in disgruntled people; so much so that caused a visit from an officer from HQ in London (an Air Commodore I think) to come up to Wigtown to meet us. He informed us that our C.O. had told him that we were refusing to fly, which in fact was totally untrue as we were continuing with our flights. As a result, the Air Commodore contacted London and an official ruling was made and we were told we could continue to wear (with pride I might say) our Observer Brevets. So, we completed the course and were granted 2 to 3 weeks leave and were instructed to report from there to number eight operational training unit at Castle Donington {which is now East Midlands Airport).
We arrived at the O.T.U. late in May 1944 and were crewed up, not being directed as to who would fly with who, but quietly talking to each other and trying to decide who you thought would be someone to trust your life with. I think I was fortunate in my choice as we all seem to get on from the start and it proved to the case when we continued to fly together later in the operations. However before we became members of the squadron there was more training to be done. First of all by the crew of six (there was no flight engineer in the crew at OTU) flying in the Vickers Wellington, learning all about our duties in an operational bomber. We were at Castle Donington from 27 May 1944 until 14 July 1944 and then we transferred to 1667 heavy conversion unit at RAF Sandtoft, learning the skills needed for coping in a four engine aircraft – in this case the Handley Page Halifax and there we were joined by the seventh member of our crew, the flight engineer.
We left RAF Sandtoft on 1 September 1944 and moved to number one Lancaster finishing school at RAF Hemswell. This proved quite a short course of about three weeks and we were then posted to join 166 squadron at RAF Kimmington on 26 September 1944, as members of C flight. This flight was being assembled to be made into another squadron, 153. This was duly achieved and some four operations were flown by the squadron from Kimmington before, on 15 October 1944, 153 squadron moved to RAF Scampton, in Lincolnshire, flying their acquired 18 aircraft there, while the ground staff travelled in a fleet of buses accompanied by a group of 3 ton lorries loaded with personal baggage. Our crew had the pleasure of being in the first of the 153 squadron aircraft to land at Scampton from Kimmington [sic] and had an unusual sight of an empty aerodrome: that is no aircraft on the ground, with a small number of ground crews standing by at dispersals to receive the aircraft.
Scampton was a station that was built before World War II and accommodation was in solid built buildings with tarmac laid roads and pavements; no mud to squelch through. Bruce Potter (the pilot) and I were allocated a room within the officers mess itself, but some of the others had to live in the previous married quarters which meant a shortish walk to the mess for meals and so forth.
On 19 October 1944, 153 squadron carried out its first operation from Scampton – 15 aircraft attacking Stuttgart. Our crew’s operations did not start until 31 October 1944 against Cologne. We carried on operations against various targets including the much written about town of Dresden on 13 February 1945, until 8 March 1945, we on takeoff for Kassel, our skipper Bruce Potter fainted at the controls. We were well down the runway with our tail up and it was the first rate action of our flight engineer Gordon Woolley, who managed to haul the control column back; cut the engines and bring the aircraft to a halt after it had executed a flat spin. The skipper was taken off to sickbay and the rest of us gathered outside the aircraft where the squadron commander, Wing Commander Powley, invited us to fly that night with another pilot. We firmly
[page break]
declined his invitation. We were then sent home on three weeks leave and on our return found that our skipper had left the station. He had gone to hospital I think. He never returned.
The remainder of the crew (six of us), completed the remaining three operations to complete our 29 operations with another pilot. Flight Lieutenant Williams, an Australian. Our last operation was on 9 April 1945 and on 10 April that same year we were sent home on leave, never again to meet up as a crew.
There is a list of our targets at the end of this article, together with the duration of each and I must say that we were a very lucky crew. Perhaps it was due to a little black cat which I wore pinned to my battledress. It was sent to me by an “anonymous admirer”. During all our trips we never experienced a single attack from an enemy fighter or received any substantial flak from German anti-aircraft fire. Jack Boyle was a first-class and diligent navigator and kept us on track and on time for every trip. We did have to abort on a trip to Politz on 8 February 1945 when one engine packed up and then another started losing power, but we were able to return safely to base. Another time, on 18 November 1944 while returning from bombing Wanne Eicline, our instruments packed up. It was a filthy night of wind and rain and there was a diversion for us to land at another aerodrome as RAF Scampton was fogbound. The crew decided that it would not be a good thing to try and land at strange aerodrome and we therefore diverted to the special diversion aerodrome at Woodbridge in Suffolk, where the runways were extremely long and wide. Bruce our skipper and Gordon the flight engineer were able to effect a temporary repair the next morning and we were then able to return to Scampton.
My leave on completion of the tour of operations was quite extensive as the great Western Railway managed to lose my kit bag with all my flying kit during my return to Scampton. I was sent home to recover it, something I was unable to do and so eventually, in July 1945 (after being home nearly 3 months) I was recalled to Scampton. I was informed that I was to train as an equipment officer and sent for training to RAF Bicester. This course lasted about six weeks and I was then posted as a fully fledged equipment officer to 35 maintenance unit at Heywood near Manchester. Within a week I was sent to RAF Strubby in Lincolnshire which no longer an operational station, to arrange to clear it of all its equipment. There was only a skeleton staff there and these were gradually posted away, leaving only about 30 other ranks (mainly equipment personnel) and myself, together with another ex-aircrew equipment (Flying Officer Frank Wilkes) who had been sent from Heywood to assist me.
It was a massive task of transferring the wanted equipment to appropriate maintenance units throughout the UK, however I never saw the end of the task and neither did Flying Officer Wilkes, as our times for release from the RAF occurred at the same time and so in July 1946 we left for Civvy Street and I returned to my job with the Cornwall County Council.
I lost contact with the crew but many years later through a letter which I had published in the RAFA magazine I made contact with Jack Boyle our navigator who was at that time living in Blackpool. However, Jack was in rather poor health. We were able to swap phone calls and letters for about 12 months before sadly, he died. Some years later I was fortunate enough to make contact with Harry Hambrook our rear gunner who lives in Harrogate. I’m glad to say that we keep in contact and are able to meet up each year at our squadron reunions.
I moved to Morpeth in Northumberland 20 years ago and on joining the Northumbria branch of the Aircrew Association, I met Mr Bill Foote from Alnmouth who had been a pilot flying Halifaxes with 77 squadron in Yorkshire. It was some little
[page break]
while before Bill and I discovered that we were both on the Queen Elizabeth voyage to Canada in November 1942. Now we both meet up with two or three others on a regular basis for lunch.
Another coincidence occurred after I joined the 153 Squadron Association about 12 years ago and met two associate member who had uncles in the crew of Pilot Officer Gibbins, the pilot in 153 Squadron at Scampton who shared a room with my skipper Bruce Potter and I. “Gibby” and I became great friends and were companions on sorties to Lincoln on days when we were on stand down from flying duties, to carry out “beer testing” in Lincoln’s many pubs! Unfortunately “Gibby’s” aircraft was lost on a daylight raid on Essen on 11 March 1945. Sad to say there were no survivors. These two members of the Squadron Association have been to Germany and visited Reichswald Forest war cemetery in Kleve, where their uncles are buried. I meet up each year with those two members, Ernie and Dave at our Squadron Association reunion which is held in Lincoln.
I must confess that I was quite disappointed at not being able to fly as a pilot (in a Spitfire in fighter command of course!) However, completing our tour of operations on bomber command and being one of “Bomber” Harris’s Boys was something I look back on with pride. I also give thanks for not being wounded or being one of the 55,573 airmen who were killed in action.
Much has been written by historians who have decried the efforts of bomber command and have called its head “Butcher Bomber Harris”, saying that he was targeting the civilian population of German cities. I can in no way agree with them as there was always some industry in each of the cities targeted. Dresden is often referred to as being a civilian target; not so, because it had armament factories including Zeiss Ikon, which provided a supply of precision instruments to the German forces. It was also an important communication centre with considerable concentration of troops within the city.
Our crew took part in the Dresden raid on the 13th and 14 February 1945, unloading our bomb load of a 4000lb “cookie” and lots of incendiaries on the city when I pressed the bomb key. Should I count myself as a murderer for doing that? Some people in this country seem to think so but most of them were not alive at the time and so did not have to endure the bombing of our cities by the German air force.
[underlined] W.H. Thomas [/underlined]
Bill Thomas
11/07/15
I AGREE WITH THE INTERVIEW
[page break]
LIST OF OPERATIONS
DATE DESTINATION DURATION
11/10/44 Fort Frederick Heindrik 3.20
31/10/44 Cologne 5.20
02/11/44 Dusseldorf 5.20
04/11/44 Bochum 5.20
09/11/44 Wanne Eicline 4.55
16/11/44 Duren 4.30
18/11/44 Wanne Eicline 5.35
04/12/44 Karlsrhue [sic] 4.30
13/12/44 Essen 6.05
17/12/44 Ulm 7.50
28/12/44 Bonn 5.40
29/12/44 Buer 6.20
31/12/44 Osterfeld 5.50
02/01/45 Nurnberg 8.40
05/01/45 Royan 7.30
07/01/45 Munich 9.25
14/01/45 Merseburg (Leuna) 8.35
28/01/45 Zuffenhausen 7.15
03/02/45 Bottrop 6.10
04/02/45 Gardening – Heligo Bight 4.45
08/02/45 Aborted – Politz 2.50
13/02/45 Dresden 10.20
14/02/45 Gardening – Keil Bay 6.15
[page break]
20/02/45 Dortmund 6.25
22/02/45 Duisberg 5.50
23/02/45 Phorzheim 8.05
07/03/45 Dessau 10.00
08/03/45 Ground Loop – Kassel
03/04/45 Nordhausen 6.30
04/04/45 Lutzkendorf 8.10
09/04/45 Keil 5.55
Total Hours Night 185.45
Day 19.25
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bill Thomas memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MThomasWH152984-150721-01
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bill Thomas
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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Eight typewritten pages
Language
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eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Germany
Great Britain
Scotland
Wales
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dresden
Wales--Aberystwyth
New Brunswick--Moncton
Scotland--Dumfries and Galloway
New Brunswick
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Ontario
Ontario--Belleville
Description
An account of the resource
He describes his first interest in the RAF, in 1938. He joined the Air Defence Cadet Corps, and later in 1941 the Air Training Corps. He was called up by the RAF in February 1942, and proceeded through initial training and the Initial Training Wing at Aberystwyth. Here he was promoted to leading aircraftsman. Having failed his pilots course, he was subsequently sent to Moncton Canada in late November 1942. Following a number of postings including bombing and gunnery school and navigation he was shipped home on the Aquitania back to the UK in December 1943. In early 1944 he was posted to Wigtown to train as a bomb aimer. He reported to 28 Operational Training Unit in late May 1944 where he crewed up. After flying in Wellingtons he passed through the Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Sandtoft and the Lancaster Fininshing School at RAF Hemswell. He joined 166 Squadron, his flight forming 153 Squadron, which moved to Scampton, and on 31st October 1944 carried out his first operation on Cologne. He continued on operations including the attack on Dresden on 13th February 1945. On completion of his tour he trained as an equipment officer. He was released by the RAF in July 1946 and returned to his job with Cornwall County Council, He eventually moved to Morpeth in Northumberland and maintained his links with the 153 Squadron Association.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Karl Williams
David Bloomfield
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
153 Squadron
166 Squadron
1667 HCU
28 OTU
aircrew
Anson
Bolingbroke
bomb aimer
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
crewing up
ground personnel
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
incendiary device
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
promotion
RAF Castle Donington
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kirmington
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Scampton
RAF Strubby
RAF Wigtown
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1239/16169/CCattyMA-180822-010003.1.jpg
68044da513f8fbba5040ac8494df6d76
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Catty, Martin Arthur. Gee charts
Description
An account of the resource
Nine items. Miniature Lattice Chart book containing charts for Great Britain and the surrounding seas.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CCattyMA-180822-01
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Belfast-Rugby
Description
An account of the resource
Gee chain chart Sheet 6 covering west England, Wales and East Ireland
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-02
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One printed chart
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CCattyMA-180822-010003
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Ireland
Wales
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Map. Navigation chart and navigation log
Map
aircrew
Gee
navigator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2627/46748/OSmithAT560209-230614-010001.2.jpg
155cc1e78f3ef25c204ad774d1ab3069
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2627/46748/OSmithAT560209-230614-010002.2.jpg
cdf044cda7171afb400a7a4172de571b
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2627/46748/OSmithAT560209-230614-010003.2.jpg
353889ffb1291186753467124054edf6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2627/46748/OSmithAT560209-230614-010004.2.jpg
2a8096567f43f63038344dd3a94edeb7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Smith, Albert Thomas
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. The collection concerns Sergeant Albert Thomas Smith (b. 1908, 560209 Royal Air Force) and contains correspondence, documents and a photograph. He served as an engine fitter with 106 Squadron.
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Diane Ralph and catalogued by Lynn Corrigan.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-06-14
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Smith, AT
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Albert Thomas Smith's service record
Description
An account of the resource
The service record of Albert Thomas Smith covering the period from his enlistment on 15 January 1926 to discharge on 23 March 1953. It includes reference to Albert being twice mentioned in despatches and being awarded the British Empire Medal and the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1926-01-15
1953-03-23
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Gloucestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Staffordshire
England--Suffolk
England--Warwickshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
Wales
Wales--Anglesey
Iraq
Iraq--Baghdad
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two double sided sheets with handwritten annotations
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
OSmithAT560209-230614-010001; OSmithAT560209-230614-010002; OSmithAT560209-230614-010003; OSmithAT560209-230614-010004;
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
106 Squadron
149 Squadron
170 Squadron
38 Squadron
617 Squadron
ground crew
RAF Castle Bromwich
RAF Coningsby
RAF Cranwell
RAF Filton
RAF Halton
RAF Hemswell
RAF Hucknall
RAF Leconfield
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Mount Batten
RAF Scampton
RAF Stradishall
RAF Valley
RAF Waddington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/167/2215/MAllenDJ1880966-150702-04.1.pdf
e41eee99049826540e5e8c9e9c907856
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Allen, Derrick
Derrick Allen
D J Allen
Description
An account of the resource
75 items. The collection covers the career of Flight Sergeant Derrick John Allen (1880966 Royal Air Force) who was a mid-upper gunner on 467 Royal Australian Air Force Squadron at RAF Waddington in 1944-45. Collection contains his logbook, Royal Air Force documentation, notes on air gunners course and photographs of various aircrew. Collection also contains maps and photographs covering the loss of his Lancaster near Spa in Belgium from which he successfully bailed out on 2 November 1944. There is also an oral history interview with his family.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Judy Hodgson and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Allen, DJ
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[underlined] 1880966. A.C. ALLEN.
CLASS. No 9. HUT 15
PEMBREY. COURSE 94 [/underlined]
[page break]
SIGHTING.
THE REFLECTOR SIGHT.
It is an illuminated ring and bead sight.
(a) The bead shows you where your bullets are going
(b) The ring is a scale to measure allowances (RADS) and is the only way of estimating range of target
Changeing [sic] bulb. (After 30hrs use or blackening).
(a) by day. polarity marks coincide.
(b) by night. by trial and error. If incorrect dim light by "day", no light by "night".
Keep all glass surfaces (5) clean and free from smears, "chamois leather".
ADJUSTMENTS.
1. To move sight laterally, loosen split collar.
2. To move sight for elevation or depression, loosen nut opposite end to split collar. ie. by the cam.
If sight refuses to function check master switch, fuze [sic] and accumulator leads
RANGE ESTIMATION.
[graph for range estimation]
[page break]
KEY RANGES.
600yds Limiting Range
400yds Effective Range.
150yds Point blank.
[underlined]CHARACTERISTICS OF M/G FIRE. [/underlined]
1.Cone of fire.
The space which contains the trajectories of all the bullets fired
2. Bullet Group. - cross section of cone of fire 15' diameter at 400yds
3. Bullet pattern - two or more bullet groups caused by vibration of mountings and whip of the barrel
[underlined] GRAVITY DROP. [/underlined]
The distance the bullet falls below the axis of the barrel due to the pull of the earth.
[ Diagram showing gravity drop effects]
It is allowed for by
[underlined] HARMONISATION. [/underlined]
It is the aligning of the guns with the sight to allow for gravity drop.
[page break]
[underlined] BULLET PATTERN FOR 4 GUNS [/underlined] [underlined] 15' DIA @ 400yds [/underlined]
[ two diagrams showing this]
[underlined] PROCEDURE FOR HARMONISATION. [/underlined]
1. Lock turret in fore and aft positions.
2. Remove Breech block and back plate etc.
3. Place harmonisation board correct distance in front of guns so that master gun (BOTTOM LEFT) is aligned on its appropiate [sic] gun spot.
4. Align remaining guns on their appropiate [sic] spots one at a time checking with the master gun after each operation.
5. Align sight on sight spot.
6. Unlock turret operate in all directions, relock and recheck.
[underlined]NOTE. [/underlined] Mid upper turrets are harmonised on the port beam
To ensure greater accuracy in aligning the guns it is advisable to strip a
[page break]
breech block, replace it in gun and sight through firing pin hole.
[underlined] BULLET TRAIL [/underlined]
Is the lagging behind of a bullet along its path due to air resistance. It is influenced by height, range, speed of own a/c, and angle of fire. (allowance is maximum on the beam decreasing to nil ahead or astern). It is allowed for by moving your guns towards the nose of your own a/c.
[diagram to illustrate]
[ Bullet trail table]
[underlined] PARRALELL[sic] COURSE SHOOTING. [/underlined]
1. [underlined] SAME SPEED.[/underlined]
Allow for bullet trail only.
2. E/A FASTER
Aim two Rads in front.
3. E/A SLOWER.
Aim point blank.
[page break]
[underlined] CORRECTING ON TRACER. FIGHTERS ATTACK. [/underlined]
Estimates your speed to find his allowance
1. parallel course 1200yds/800yds (to get your speed)
2. Banks "cockpit towards ) sighting
3. Banks opposite way "GUNS ON"
During "double bank" Pt Blank Shot, fire long burst.
[ diagram curve of pursuit]
[ diagram the zone method]
Aiming point being between the target and your own tail.
[page break]
[underlined] Correcting on Tracer. [/underlined]
TRACER.
It is an illuminated bullet. - 2 kinds
G IV - day tracer - burns brightly from -0yds - 600yds.
G V - night tracer - burns dull from -0yds - 200yds brightens 200yds - 600yds.
It is a secondary aid to sighting. It shows you correct "Line" and correct allowance.
YOU CANNOT ESTIMATE RANGE WITH TRACER.
RULES OF AIMING AGAINST CURVE OF PURSUIT.
USING TRACER.
1. Recognise the a/c.
2. Estimate Range.
3. Make the necessary zone[?] allowance towards own tail.
4. At 600yds fire a burst and note end of trace (It is essential that you maintain the target in the same position in your sight whilst firing).
5. Keep firing with the target at the end of the trace.
6. At 400yds position target half way along the existing trace.
7. Keep firing with target half way along the trace until 150yds. Then fire point blank until the break away.
[page break]
8. On break away build up deflection of 1 Rad in the direction of the breakaway firing cont.
FRONT GUNNER.
1. Head On - P.t. Blank - 1200yds
2. Head On "Up" - Shallow Dive - 1200yds - 1 Rad above and increase.
3. Head On "Down" Shallow climb - 1200yds - 1 Rad below.
[diagram to illustrate]
[underlined] GROUND STRAFFING.[sic] [/underlined] under 2000'
[underlined] FRONT GUNNER [/underlined] - 1000yds - fires 2 Rads short of target increasing to 3.
[underlined] REAR GUNNER [/underlined] 3 RADS and decreases
[underlined] TRACER. - should enter the target.
[underlined] PRE [/underlined] FLIGHT INSPECTION.
1. Switch on master switch.
2. Check sight (switch) in all positions
3. If sight does not light (a) change bulb (b) Check fuze[sic] (c) check leads
4. Check spare bulbs and fuzes. [sic]
5. Check sight mounting for security.
6. Wipe all glass surfaces.
[page break]
CORRECT RULE FOR USING TRACER.
Keep the sight moving with the target before firing, during firing, and as long after firing as trace is visible. Watch the end point, [underlined] if [/underlined] this is done the trace ( from sight centre to end of trace) gives the correct deflection including bullet trail for 600 yds.
BREAKAWAY'S. [sic]
Breakaway [underlined] down [/underlined], (rear and mid upper).
Aim 1 Rad along line of breakaway, firing continuosly [sic] until fighter has passed through sight. [underlined] Front gunner [/underlined]
Aim 2 Rads over the outside shoulder of target
[underlined] Break away up, [/underlined] rear gunner, as for break away down.
Mid Upper and Front gunner, aim point blank.
[page break]
Bristol turret 60o either side
Elevation 60o
Depression 32o
Independant [sic] gun rotation 40o either side of any mid position. Working pressure of turret 600lbs per squ inch.
REARMING.
Double link in tank,[?] single link to right hand gun.
Single link in Left hand tail.[?] double link to left hand gun.
The hydraulic lock is to prevent gun sinkage.
[diagram (upside down)]
[page break]
[diagram of Bristol a/c hydraulic and turret layout.]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Air gunner course notes
Description
An account of the resource
Covers air gunners course including sighting, gun ranges, characteristics of machine guns, bullet patterns, harmonisation, firing techniques, use of tracer rounds and gun turret hydraulics. Front Cover captioned '1880966, AQC Allen, Class No 0, Hut 15, Pembrey, Course 94'.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D J Allen
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
10 page notebook with front and rear cover
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Training material
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MAllenDJ1880966-150702-04
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales
Wales--Carmarthenshire
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Debbie Record
David Bloomfield
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Pembrey
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/167/2328/PAllenDJ1532-0050.2.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/167/2328/PAllenDJ1532-0051.2.jpg
b5bded90ec7fbd9ecf440ae5edd1e351
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Allen, Derrick
Derrick Allen
D J Allen
Description
An account of the resource
75 items. The collection covers the career of Flight Sergeant Derrick John Allen (1880966 Royal Air Force) who was a mid-upper gunner on 467 Royal Australian Air Force Squadron at RAF Waddington in 1944-45. Collection contains his logbook, Royal Air Force documentation, notes on air gunners course and photographs of various aircrew. Collection also contains maps and photographs covering the loss of his Lancaster near Spa in Belgium from which he successfully bailed out on 2 November 1944. There is also an oral history interview with his family.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Judy Hodgson and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Allen, DJ
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
15 airmen
Description
An account of the resource
15 airmen in two rows, eight in front kneeling and seven behind standing. All are in battledress with side cap. Derrick Allen is front row right extreme right. In the background open ground. On the reverse 'Derrick Allen kneeling extreme right, trainee air gunner, passing out parade, No 1 AGS Pembrey 1944'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PAllenDJ1532-0050, PAllenDJ1532-0051
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Carmarthenshire
Wales
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Pembrey
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/167/2329/PAllenDJ1532-0052.2.jpg
3b13a20b62b2f20ae5ca591e263c0040
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/167/2329/PAllenDJ1532-0053.2.jpg
289a5b421074d4ee9b506ef28fff6034
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Allen, Derrick
Derrick Allen
D J Allen
Description
An account of the resource
75 items. The collection covers the career of Flight Sergeant Derrick John Allen (1880966 Royal Air Force) who was a mid-upper gunner on 467 Royal Australian Air Force Squadron at RAF Waddington in 1944-45. Collection contains his logbook, Royal Air Force documentation, notes on air gunners course and photographs of various aircrew. Collection also contains maps and photographs covering the loss of his Lancaster near Spa in Belgium from which he successfully bailed out on 2 November 1944. There is also an oral history interview with his family.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Judy Hodgson and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Allen, DJ
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
15 air gunners
Description
An account of the resource
15 airmen in two rows, seven in front row kneeling and eight standing behind. All are wearing battledress and side cap. On the reverse 'No 1 AGS Pembrey, 30-1-44/25-3-44, Bert Davies kneeling third from right, passing out parade'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PAllenDJ1532-0052, PAllenDJ1532-0053
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Carmarthenshire
Wales
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-03-25
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-03-25
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Pembrey
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/167/2330/PAllenDJ1532-0054.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/167/2330/PAllenDJ1532-0055.2.jpg
13fa2b59cca1689479f259227a96b8e7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Allen, Derrick
Derrick Allen
D J Allen
Description
An account of the resource
75 items. The collection covers the career of Flight Sergeant Derrick John Allen (1880966 Royal Air Force) who was a mid-upper gunner on 467 Royal Australian Air Force Squadron at RAF Waddington in 1944-45. Collection contains his logbook, Royal Air Force documentation, notes on air gunners course and photographs of various aircrew. Collection also contains maps and photographs covering the loss of his Lancaster near Spa in Belgium from which he successfully bailed out on 2 November 1944. There is also an oral history interview with his family.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Judy Hodgson and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-08-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Allen, DJ
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
15 air gunners
Description
An account of the resource
15 airmen in two rows, seven kneeling in the front and eight standing to the rear. All wearing battledress and side cap. On the reverse 'H. R. Harvey, kneeling extreme right, trainee air gunner, passing out parade, No 1 AGS Pembrey 1944'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PAllenDJ1532-0054, PAllenDJ1532-0055
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales--Carmarthenshire
Wales
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Pembrey
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/189/2505/PCaseyJ1516.2.jpg
c02e3f78495cbecb592075f459314112
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Casey, John
J Casey
John Casey
Description
An account of the resource
14 items. Collection contains an oral history interview with Sergeant John Casey (- 2016, 2217470, Royal Air Force), an escape map, logbook, service documentation, a wallet and photographs. John Casey served as an air gunner on 61 Squadron in 1944-45.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Casey and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-10
2015-11-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Casey, J
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
13 airmen
Description
An account of the resource
13 airmen in two rows, front row of seven sitting and rear row of six standing. All are wearing greatcoats and side caps. In the background a wooden hut with windows. A board at the front reads 'No 126 Course Air Gunners Squad B, 13-12-43 [....]'. Captioned 'Stormy Dawn S Wales'.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCaseyJ1516
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Wales
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-12
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
RAF Stormy Down
training