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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/19/43/PAutonJ1503.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/19/43/AAutonJF150608.2.mp3
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Dublin Core
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Title
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Auton, Jim
J Auton
Description
An account of the resource
26 items. The collection relates to Sergeant Jim Auton MBE (1924 - 2020). He was badly injured when his 178 Squadron B-24 was hit by anti-aircraft fire during an operation from Italy. The collection contains an oral history interview and ten photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jim Auton and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Date
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2015-07-30
Identifier
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Auton, J
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB: Well Jim, perhaps we could start with your date and place of birth please?
JA: Yes I was born at Henlow, my father was an officer in the RAF and he happened to be stationed at Henlow when I happened to be born.
CB: And what date was that?
JA: That was the 13th of April, 1924
CB: And what do you remember about your childhood?
JA: I remember when he was transferred to Cranwell, I started infant school at Cranwell and we had to walk across the aerodrome to school, and there were about twenty of us and we were told to walk in groups together and if you see an aeroplane coming in, stand still [emphasis] so he can avoid you and we used to see aeroplanes coming in to land on the grass field, they were bi-planes of course and we’d wave to the pilot and if he waved back to us that made our day because pilots were our heroes and we all wanted to be like daddy and join the RAF when we were old enough and next to the school playground there was an aircraft dump, old fuselages, they’d taken the engines out and the instruments but we’d climb into the cockpits and stand there and go ‘dud dud du du’, we were shooting down Germans when we were five years old, we knew the Germans were the enemy, I don’t think our government knew at the time.
CB: So you have happy memories of your childhood in Cranwell?
JA: Yes, and then of course we, he was stationed at Manston and we could go in the workshop and see the fitters working on the planes, they never told us to shove off, and we liked the smell of dope on the aircraft on the canvas and, but when they took an aircraft to the butts to synchronise the guns, they’d jack up the tails to get the plane horizontal and we’d stand around with our fingers in their ears while they were shooting into the pile of sand in the butts, and then when an aircraft broke down we used to rush out across the aerodrome to help the man, help the men push it and for kids it was marvellous, we loved aeroplanes.
CB: So do you think that’s what started your desire to join the air force later on?
JA: Well you see I was brought up on RAF stations, RAF camps and I didn’t know any other life, we were isolated from the outside community, we had free medical treatment, free dental treatment, we were in married quarters most of the time where even the crockery was provided, all the linen and everything, so our whole life was in the air force until we were adults, so naturally we all wanted to be pilots when we grew up, and when the war was announced I thought ‘oh good they’ll need more pilots now’ [slight laugh]
CB: So off you went to volunteer.
JA: Well when I was seventeen I couldn’t wait, I went to join up, and I registered as a pilot but I found later they put me down pilot navigator or rather pilot observer as it was in those days so they could change me any time they wanted, and I started flying training as a pilot and then when they introduced the four engine bombers they didn’t need two pilots, so they would have a pilot and a bomb airman who had done some flying training and he in an emergency would be able to take over from the first pilot so the bomber was a second pilot, but and [slight pause] I started flying in England but the German intruders flying over us, over England were shooting us down in our training planes, so the Government opened the Empire Air Training scheme.
CB: Where did you do your initial training?
JA: At Ansty near Coventry and then after much delay because flying schools were all full and there was a waiting time, I was sent to South Africa as a navigator and I trained there as a navigator, but I wasn’t very keen on being a navigator so I also trained as an air bomber, because I knew air bombers would be allowed to pilot the plane, in an emergency, and even during training the staff pilots would allow me to take out over and fly the Oxfords and Ansons because that’s all I wanted to do really and so I trained as a navigator and a bomb airman.
CB: What about your journey down to South Africa?
JA: That was marvellous, hundreds and hundreds of them on a small Liberty ship. We were told you mustn’t be below decks during daylight, so we had to stay on the top deck in all weathers and there wasn’t room for everybody to sit down, so if somebody stood up you immediately sat in that place and some of the troops perched on the ship’s rails until they broadcast anybody falling over will drown because the ship will not stop to pick anybody up, so we couldn’t sit on the rails so we had to stand up sometimes for ten, nine or ten hours, during the day, we were fed twice a day, seven in the morning and seven in the evening and the food was like an airways meal on a tray and it wasn’t enough to keep us alive and I asked the crew, it was an American Liberty ship and the crew were Filipinos and Negroes and I asked them ‘do you have this terrible food that we have?’ and they said ‘no we’ve got plenty of food’, they said ‘if you come and work in the kitchen for us, we’ll let you have our food’, so I spent couple of weeks washing up dirty dishes until the heat got too bad and I went back on the troop deck again, but during my time in the kitchen I was allowed to sneak some food out for my friends [slight laugh] who didn’t work in the kitchen, that was all unofficial of course.
CB: Was it better food in the kitchen or just more of it?
JA: More of it and better.
CB: So they were keeping you on starving rations basically?
JA: Yes, yes, eventually the doctor said I was suffering from severe physical debility but that was much later, we were on this ship for six weeks and they warned us we were in shark infested waters and the ship wouldn’t stop for anybody falling over board, but it was quite an interesting voyage except the sun was dreadful in the tropics and there was no shade, and the officer in charge of troops thought that we were cadet officers because we wore a white flash in our caps but we weren’t and when we got to Sierra Leone Freetown somebody must have told him we were not potential officers and he said ‘right, you’ll have to do all the duties’, fire picket, fatigues, peeling potatoes and all sort of things like that and guard duty for the rest of the voyage, another three weeks and my name beginning with an A, I was one of the first to be chosen for guard duty and it was a stinking hot day and we were anchored off Freetown to re-fuel and I found a hatchway and a collapsible chair and I sat in that hatchway and dozed off because I’d had no sleep, we couldn’t sleep on the deck as it was too hot and the smell of the engine oil, and I dozed off and suddenly I was awoken when the ship’s officer came round on his inspection with the ships warrant officer and they bellowed at me ‘what are you on? sleeping duty?’ and I said ‘yes, sir’ because I didn’t like to say no to anybody in authority and they said ‘you’re under arrest in five minutes’, ‘oh dear’ I thought ‘I’ll be all on my own in prison’, the brig, the ship’s prison was below the water line, it was nice and cool and I wasn’t on my own, there were eleven other air crew cadets in there with me and the police who looked after us took us round for dinner wearing their caps and then they said ‘you keep your mouths shut and we’ll go round again’ and they took their caps off and we had a second dinner, so being in the brig wasn’t so bad, except we were locked in and we were below the water line and there were submarines about, so we thought if, if a submarine hit we’ll certainly drown like rats in a trap but it didn’t happen of course.
CB: It must have been quite a relief to get to South Africa after all that?
JA: We anchored off in Table Bay about quarter of a mile from land and the dock workers had a big lump of rusty steel plate and they wrote on it in chalk: ‘plenty of food, plenty of women, plenty of booze’ [laughs] and the next day we docked in the harbour and we were told you will be discharged tomorrow, and there was nearly a riot because we’d been cooped up for six weeks and eventually they said ‘Ok, you can go into town but you must be back at midnight so we all went into town, it was paradise, things we hadn’t seen for years like pineapples and peaches and plenty of food and so we goaded a kind of a restaurant run by volunteers for service men and some old ladies served dinner, so we had a three course dinner and when we finished they said ‘would you like anything else’, and we said ‘could we have it again please?’, so we had another three course dinner, then we had half a dozen bananas on the way back to the ship [laughs] and we brought a coconut, it was paradise, but at flying school wasn’t so funny, the day we arrived we were told that five aircraft had crashed and twenty five air crew had been killed, that’s five pilots and two navigators in each plane and two bomber men in each plane, five men in each plane and the reason was the staff pilots had been low flying round a hospital where somebody’s wife was working and all five crashed (these would be Ansons?) they were Ansons and they, we were told report those pilots for low flying in future but we didn’t do that because we liked low flying because stooging about high up isn’t much fun, but low flying is exciting [clears throat].
So after training in South Africa [coughs] for nearly a year we went up by stages through central Africa, Rhodesia, Kenya, Tanganyika, Uganda, the Sudan to Egypt where we found we were going to live in the Heliopolis Palace Hotel, marvellous [emphasis] but when we entered we found there were no beds, no furniture of any description and we had to sleep on the marble floors and our kit had been left behind in South Africa so we only had the clothes we were standing up in, so I wrapped my shoes in a towel to use as a pillow and lay my uniform down on the marble floor and slept on that, I found that I had to sleep on my back otherwise my hip stuck into the marble and it hurt [slight laugh] and then, I was then sent to Palestine where there was a war, the Jews and the Arabs were fighting each other and both sides were fighting the British Palestine police and while I was there they blew up the radio station and they blew up hotels, and people were fighting in the streets and I thought ‘I haven’t got into the war yet but I’m going to get shot by our own police’, and they had said to us, because we each had a revolver, ‘hand in the revolvers in the armoury, so I went down to the armoury which was in the cellar of the hotel and I handed my revolver in, and I saw the men there were mounting twin machine guns on a platform to be carried on a lorry, so it was a war, but then we were then transferred to Lidder, after going back to Egypt and wasting some more time sleeping in the western dessert on the sand, we had to empty our shoes thoroughly because there was scorpions in the dessert and the sand was almost too hot to walk on and the authorities had laid a tarmac path but it never hardens and it was like sticky toffee so we couldn’t walk on that [slight laugh]
CB: And this was part of your flying training or were they just moving you from place to place?
JA: Moving us around, and then we went to Lidder for a conversion course, onto Liberators, about a five week course.
CB: Were you expecting Liberators?
JA: No, when we saw that we were going to fly Liberators, we thought ‘they are American planes, why haven’t we got Lancasters?’, ‘cause we knew about Lancasters we thought they were marvellous, Liberators were unknown and didn’t even know that the RAF had Liberators and we thought they’re gonna send us to Japan because the Americans had Liberators so we were a little bit frightened of that, because we thought we should be helping defend Britain, we thought the war in Japan is an American affair and we shouldn’t be anything to do with that, but after we’d been shuttled around in Egypt to Palestine for a bit we went to Algiers by air, nine hours, and we thought we were on our way to Italy, when we got off the plane we saw a French flag and we said ‘what’s this place?’ and a French airman said ‘it’s Algeria’ or at least he said ‘it’s Maison Blanche’, we said ‘where’s that?’ he said ‘it’s Algeria, it’s North Africa’ and we said we’re supposed to be in Italy but there was nobody to ask, we could ask any questions and he said ‘you can go to a hotel here and sleep in huts in the grounds’, and then you should go to Algiers’s downtown about twenty miles and report to the RTO, transport officer, we went to see him the next day and he said ‘oh bomber crews, you’ll be here for ages, you’re low priority’, he said ‘only fighter pilots are priority one’ and our navigator said to me ‘we are priority one, I’ve read the documents’ but I said ‘shut up, it’s nice here’ so I said to him ‘the French people don’t seem very friendly’ and one of the gunners said ‘no wonder, we’ve just sunk the French fleet in Iran, so [slight laugh] after three weeks we said to the corporal in the RTO’s office, ‘I think you ought to have another look at our documents’ and he stood and talked on the telephone for a few minutes, kept us waiting because we were so insignificant, a low priority, then he looked at the documents and nearly had a fit, he said ‘you’re priority one, you should have left the same day’ he said, ‘you’ll be on a plane this afternoon’, so we fly to Italy in a freight plane with a load of boxes and an aircraft wheel that wasn’t properly strapped down, it kept shuffling around and nearly run us over, we were sitting on the floor and when we got to Italy, no customs, no immigration, nothing at all, nobody to tell us where to go or what to do, so we, first thing a service man does when he goes somewhere new is look for a tea and a bun [laughing] or what’s called a ‘shy and a wad’ and there was a little sort of canteen with Italian girls serving and they were laughing and joking, I expected Italians to be hostile like the French but they were so friendly, I thought we’re gonna like it in Italy and they kept saying ‘capiche, capiche’, and I said ‘no, no cabbage thank you, just tea and a bun’ and they said they were saying ‘do you understand?, capiche’ but we didn’t know that, but we thought they seemed nice [laughs] hope there are going to be some women where we’re going.
CB: Is this around about Naples was it?
JA: It was in Naples, and then we were transferred to Portici to a, to a holding centre, and there were people there who’d done a tour of operations and they were going on a rest period, and they were so dejected, haggard and ill looking, and they wouldn’t talk to anybody and we thought it must be terrible on a squadron, that it was demoralising to see them, anyway we stayed there a few weeks and then we were sent to Foggia by train, and you understood that Foggia is a big aircraft base, there were thousands and thousands of Americans there, with Liberators and Flying Fortresses, B24s and B17s, and we had liberators but other squadrons, some of them had clapped out wellingtons obsolete or obsolesce wellingtons so the liberators were a bit better except they weren’t new machines, they were machines that had been damaged and done a tour in the American Air Force and were now in a sort of scrap yard called a maintenance unit, and the pilots would go and ferry them to our squadron and if we were lucky we’d get the one in reasonable condition but most of them had got terrible faults, some of them had even got twisted airframes, and engine troubles common, and our fitters worked in the open air, there were no hangars, and sometimes they worked through the night in all weathers, and we were reliant on them to keep us alive.
CB: Now your crew, there was the seven of you as in a Lancaster but in this Liberator is that right?
JA: Yes, when I talk about how when I won the war I always say ‘I didn’t do it alone, there was seven of us’, and three of them were Scotsmen, one was from the Shetlands, and it took me a few, few days to learn to understand them on the intercom, because the intercom system is not very clear, it’s like a poor telephone system, and their Scottish accents were very guttural and I knew my life depends on these fellas, so I had to learn [slight laugh] to understand them and the skipper was very pleased when I joined the crew because up till then he was the youngest member, he was twenty-one and I was twenty and of course as I trained as a navigator and as an pupil pilot I was a useful member of the crew, and I’d done a gunnery course so I could do anything if anybody was killed or injured, I could take over from them, I couldn’t land a Liberator of course but I could keep it in the air long enough for the others to jump out and I said, I think I was bombing I think it was Budapest and the flak was so thick I thought we couldn’t get through it without being hit, and I looked over the side and it was like black velvet, the sky was so dark and I thought I’d jump out if I dared but I had no faith in my parachute and as I said to a Polish pilot I knew, he had parachuted safely and I said ‘ I think I’d jump out if I dared, but I’d be scared’ and he said ‘you wouldn’t hesitate if your arse was on fire’ and he was speaking from personal experience.
CB; So, you were with this very close-knit group, you were a good team, a good cohesive team?
JA: Yes, yes, you see when we arrived on the squadron nobody would talk to us because they couldn’t be bothered with new boys and when we became senior crew, we couldn’t be bothered to talk to new crews because on average they were only doing seven trips before they got shot down, and it was bad enough if our friends got shot down, but we didn’t care much about strangers being shot down so we didn’t really want to make any friends, because it would be traumatic when they died.
CB: And what were the conditions like at Foggia?
JA: The conditions were absolutely terrible, we were in a field, there were no gates, no fence, we were in a field with one solitary brick building, and that was the orderly room, the medical offices office and something the commanding officer used, he lived in a caravan, we lived in little four man tents, bivouac tents, you couldn’t stand up in them and we had no beds, we had to make our own beds out of bits of packing cases, and I had the side of a packing case with a strut across the middle, in the middle of my back, most uncomfortable, covered in cardboard, the mid-upper gunner, had a sheet of corrugated iron, I said ‘that’s why, that’s why he walks so funny’ [laugh]
CB: But you’d have the heat, you’d have the rain, it must have been terrible.
JA: It was, we’d have the side of the tents rolled up and the end flaps were open because the heat was so intense and we’d get a couple of hours sleep at night, but we couldn’t sleep more than a couple of hours so we’d get up and walk around, and when the sun came up it was unbearable and there was no shade anywhere, there was a place that we called the dining room and it was a roof on six poles with no sides and we sat on forms at trestle tables, and the cook, had an outside kitchen arrangement made out of oil drums, and the first thing I noticed was his black arms and white hands, he was twenty-one, he never wanted to be a cook, we called him Gladys because he was a nice boy.
CB: And was the food any better?
JA: The food was terrible, you see sometimes the food didn’t arrive, the food was brought to us by a lorry from somewhere distant each day, only enough for one day and after everybody had had a bit of it on the way there wasn’t much left for us, and there was hardly enough to keep us alive and sometimes the food didn’t arrive at all and we’d have nothing to eat for twenty-four hours and one day we said to Gladys our cook ‘ God for Christ’s sake Gladys, find something, there must be something left over’ and he scratched around and he found an onion, a raw onion each and a mug of tea, and that’s what we had and we had to do a nine hour flight, on an empty stomach and of course I smoked twenty cigarettes on every trip because it took away the hunger pangs, and then the medical officer discovered that the cook was using some sort of cans of meat and vegetable stew that had blown, and most of us got severe enteritis and people couldn’t control their bowels and there were no toilet facilities in the air, so people were doing it in their trousers, and sitting there on it for the rest of the trip, and some of the crews were yellow with jaundice, we didn’t know if it’s contagious or what caused it but we were living in what they called a malarias area, there were boards around the perimeter of the field we lived in, saying ‘caution, malarias area, malarias area, area’ and everyday a bowser arrived, a tanker of water but we couldn’t drink the water, it tasted of chlorine it was terribly strong, so we could only use it for washing ourselves and trying to wash clothes but we had no washing powder, we’d save little scraps of soap and put a shirt in a tub and leave it for three weeks to soak [slight laugh] and then rub it, and then rinse it and lie it in the sun, and in the hot sun it was dry in about an hour and we had nothing to eat except a mug of tea twice a day, and when we came back from operations we went to the debriefing tent, and there was a billy can full of lukewarm tea there and half a dozen mugs, they were never washed they were just recycled, we dipped them in the lukewarm tea, but if we were gone for more than five hours on a trip, we were given five boiled sweets which we promptly ate on the ground before we took off, and we were given a gallon of tea between seven of us, in a thermos jug, but that got cold, we’d saved it for the return trip and Jock the wireless operator used to bring the tea round for us cold, cold as ice, and about once a month we got what we called a tuppenny bar of chocolate but it was tropical chocolate and it never melted and in the air, I would put a piece of chocolate in my mouth and chew it and it became like gravel and then it became like dust and then I swallowed it but it never did melt, and one day some, some things arrived at the cook house, we thought they were bails of straw but they were dehydrated cabbage and that’s the worst thing you can have when you’re flying because our stomachs swelled up and we had to loosen our belts and our flying clothes because our stomachs were expanded enormously and we farted furiously throughout the trip.
CB: Did you have proper flying clothes in all this?
JA: We had flying clothing, we just recycled, the only ordinary clothing we had were ones left behind by casualties and of course lots of it was very old and our kit bags were still somewhere in Egypt or South Africa, following on about three months later and when I was in South Africa, I brought thirty oranges for a shilling, no for three pence, you couldn’t buy less because they were in a net, thirty for a ticky it was called, a threepnee bit [sic], and my kit bag wasn’t quite full so I put thirty oranges in there thinking the kit bag would come with me but it followed on three months later and the oranges were well ripe by that time [laughs] they were putrid, and we were allowed to wear civilian clothes in South Africa, provided we wore our service cap, we could buy bush shirts and nice clothing in the gents’ outfitters, so if we took our caps off we looked like civilians, and that was good quality stuff and when that eventually arrived in Italy we were very pleased because we’d been dressed like scarecrows up until then with all sorts, I had a brown battle dress, it wasn’t khaki it was brown, a sort of teddy bear material, I don’t know what air force or army that was from, maybe Greek or something, and it was a bit big for me so I could wear two battle dress blouses, two pairs of trousers, two shirts, two vests and three pullovers, because sometimes it was twenty below in the air and then I’d wear my flying suit, going to the toilet to urinate was a bit difficult because I had so many clothes on, I couldn’t stretch my penis long enough in the cold air to have a pee in the pee tube, which was on the side of the fuselage with a tube leading out of the aircraft but usually they were blocked up with cigarette ends [laughs]. The Americans had had ashtrays in their Liberators, they smoked in the air, smoked cigars in fact but the RAF took the ash trays out so of course we smoked in the air, nobody knew and I would smoke twenty cigarettes during a trip and now and again I’d feel like another cigarette but I’d already got one alight and then I’d think, ‘what did I do with the last cigarette end, did I stamp on it? did I drop it?’ and I’d switch a torch on which had a bit of brown paper over the glass, inside the glass because that was regulation and try and find the cigarette end on the floor somewhere and, once we took a fitter with us to another airfield and he nearly had a fit when he saw me light a cigarette because you are not allowed to smoke within so many yards of an aircraft but it was alright, it was, smoking was less of a hazard than the flak, we were carrying a ten thousand pounds of bombs and thousands of gallons of fuel, petrol and oil and pyrotechnics, photo flashes, incendiary bombs so –
CB: A cigarette was the least of your problems –
JA: A cigarette was minor.
CB: What did you make of the Liberator as a plane?
JA: Well when I flew it, because I could fly it when the automatic pilot backed and the skipper said to me ‘you can take over if you like’, it was like, it was like steering the Queen Mary, if you wanted to change course you had a wheel instead of a joystick and you’d turn the wheel and wait and nothing happens for a few seconds and then suddenly it moves, and if you don’t turn the wheel back quick enough its gone too far, so it’s too sluggish and, of course my instrument flying, I only took over at night, my instrument flying wasn’t good enough, most of my instrument flying was in the link trainer under the hood, and instrument flying was tedious and I could only stand about half an hour at a time, then I was glad when the skipper came back and took over, we were all sergeants, we liked that, because it was awkward sometimes when there was officers in the crew, in one crew the tail gunner was an officer well that seemed silly because a sergeant in that crew was a skipper and he was in charge in the air but he had to salute the tail gunner on the ground, well he should have done if they hadn’t abandoned saluting, but there was so many American officers because all of their bomb aimers or bombardiers were commissioned and the navigators and the pilots, so they always, when they talked to me they always addressed me as lieutenant because they thought I must be an officer being a bomb aimer, bombardier, and I would say ‘no we’re not one, we’re sergeants’, but you see we didn’t wear rank badges because we hadn’t got any, when we qualified at flying school, they didn’t give us any sergeant strips and when we got to the squadron nobody was wearing any rank and the commanding officer said ‘you should wear rank badges’, we said ‘we haven’t got any’ he said ‘chalk them on’, chalk them on, well that seemed so silly we didn’t bother, we said ‘we can get some from the Americans’ he said ‘you’re not allowed to wear those’, so we didn’t wear anything.
CB: Did you get on well with the Americans?
JA: Yes, oh yeah they were lovely fellows, we went to a, about twenty miles away to Foggia, was a ruined town, it had been bombed by the Germans, the Italians, the British and the Americans so there wasn’t much left of it, but there was a bath house where they had shower baths, and when we had a day off we’d hitch a ride on a lorry, lorries were conveying chalk from the quarries and we’d hitch a ride on the back of a lorry carrying limestone, and then we’d get very dusty on there, the drivers were all American Negroes and they’d say ‘where you going, down town Foggia?’ and we’d say ‘yes’, ‘get aboard’, so we’d climb up on the limestone and go to the bathhouse which was a small with half a dozen cubicles which were meant for one or two people but there were always four or six people pushing in trying to get wet, under the water, and we’d be sitting there waiting to go in with our towels and our soap, all naked, and soon as someone came out we’d push our way in and try and get some water, and after the war I was invited by the Hungarian government to go, go to a meeting in Budapest, they’d invited all available flyers of every air force that was active over Hungary during the war, well Hungary was allied with Germany and I’d bombed Hungary but the Hungarian air force was very kind to us, they took us flying, you know in their aeroplanes and there were five Americans standing there, there were only two of us they could find from England, but I said to one of the Americans ‘do you remember the shower baths in Foggia?’ he said ‘yeah I must have seen you there’ but he said ‘I didn’t recognise you there with your clothes on’[laughing].
CB: So let’s turn to your missions, your operations, what were you involved in while you were there on your long range bomber?
JA: Well we could put most eighty aircraft in the air, RAF, Liberators and Wellingtons but the Americans could put up six hundred, or nearly a thousand, they flew during the day, we flew to the same time at night and of course we had the same opposition say for sixty planes as they had when they flew six hundred so our casualties were much higher than Americans but I liked the Americans, we got on well with them, they had a camp in a field not far from us and we went to visit them once, to compare their facilities with ours and they had tents with wooden floors and wooden walls and they had stoves, we had nothing like that, we didn’t have running water, they did, they had electric light, we didn’t, they had decent food, we didn’t, they had flak jackets to protect them when they were flying, we didn’t, they had an ice cream plant for making ice cream and when the weather was very hot, they used to take the ice cream up to about fifteen thousand feet to freeze it and they had a cinema on their site, we didn’t, so we felt really rather ashamed of our conditions compared with theirs ‘cause they didn’t know how bad ours were –
CB: I’m surprised there wasn’t mutiny but I suppose –
JA: Well we had some desertions, we didn’t, we felt mutinous but we didn’t actually mutiny, and our attitude was we want to get this bloody war over and beat the Germans, and get home, but after forty operations we should have six months instructing or some other job and then come back and do another forty so not many people getting through the first forty and by the time we’d done twenty we knew we wouldn’t survive, we were the most senior crew on the squadron, we lost the flight commander and all the senior people off the squadron and when people much more experienced than us were failing to come back, we thought ‘we haven’t got much chance’, and so we reconciled ourselves to the fact that we will die but everybody’s got to die sooner or later and we thought ‘we are gonna die now instead of when we are ninety-nine’ so that cheered us up the fact that everybody has got to go sooner or later anyway but what did worry us, is the thought that we’d be severely wounded and blinded and badly burned, that sort of thing and having to live with that from the age of twenty for the rest of our lives, we didn’t like that, we had been stationed in Torquey as raw recruits, and there was a hospital there for burned air crews, air crews that had had their faces burned off and they were disgusting to look at, and horrifying, and we didn’t want that to happen to us, it was very demoralising and it was happening to other men, it never happened to us, you know, we couldn’t understand how we keep getting away with it, the plane was hit, engines were knocked out, we were landing on one wheel and two engines and all sorts of things like that, but none of us were hit yet and we went on to, the skipper had done one air experience trip, before we started operating, so he was one ahead of us he’d flown with another crew for experience, we didn’t like that ‘cause we thought ‘if he gets bumped off we’ll have a strange pilot’, and anyway we went on, watching other people dropping like flies until our, until my, my thirty-seventh trip, and I was bombing German troops in Serbia, they were evacuating from Greece and the Greek islands, back through Yugoslavia, back to the home land, to defend Germany, and we were stopping them, and no matter how much we bombed them they never really took to it and they hit me, filled me full of shrapnel.
CB: Before we get to that Jim, your first operation I believe were against oil plants in Bucharest, is that right?
JA: The first one was an oil refinery in Fiume, that was an Italian port which is now Rijeka which Fiume and Rijeka mean river, and it’s now Yugoslav, Croatia now, and I know that oil refinery well, and I know a woman who used to go to school across the bay when I was bombing that oil refinery and I thought what a terrible thing it was she lived nearby and when I went past on the bus sometimes after the war and I thought I could’ve killed her and I would’ve hated to kill her she was such a nice person and, after the war I knew a lot of Germans, the German airmen, pilots, ‘cause I speak fluent German and they always thought I was German, they used to say ‘but your father’s German?’, and ‘no, no he’s English’, well your mother is German ‘no no’, ‘well where did you learn English?’, I was the head of the German department of import export firm for years and I had to learn German at school anyway, and I had a private tutors for languages after the war and, I even spoke Italian during the war, fifteen years after the war I opened an office in Milan, and I put a man there who was a Venetian, rather posh Italian, superior you know, and I said ‘hey Franco, have you changed the language?’ and he said ‘why?’ I said ‘well during the war we used to speak differently’ and he said ‘no we haven’t changed anything’ well he said ‘after Mussolini, we didn’t call people voy we said lay’ and I said ‘no it’s not that’ I said, I only speak these days when I’m on my monthly trip to Italy, to supervise the office, I only speak to bus conductors and waiters and people like that but they speak differently to the way I spoke, so I started talking to him in Italian and he said ‘for God’s sake don’t talk to the directors of Fiat, what you speak is Neapolitan dialect’, well I didn’t know that and I thought well if it was good enough for the girls in Sorrento, it’ll have to be good enough for the rest of the Italians, he said ‘you speak like those little black fellas down in the south’, ‘cause you know there was snobbishness between the north and the south but I liked the southern Italians, they were all nice jolly people you know, I’ve even got some distant relatives that are Italian, my, my grandmother’s sister married an Italian during the first war when the Italians were on our side, and they settled in England and had a multitude of children and I knew them all.
CB: So the operations, some of which were in Ploiesti in Romania, and they had a fearful reputation.
JA: It was the most heavily defended target in the world.
CB: You were bombing these oil plants, especially the one at Ploiesti at night obviously?
JA: Yes, yes it had tremendous defences you know, because it was the oil that was vital, what really finished the war was lack of petrol, they got, they’d run out of fuel for the tanks and the aircraft so all the war we should have only really been concentrating on oil refineries, oil fields.
CB: So the operation in October to do gardening or mine laying as it was properly known, mine laying in the Danube of which you reported was the most frightening episode that you’d ever been.
JA: Well the first time that we dropped mines in the Danube, we’d been told they are secret and you must make sure you drop them in the main stream, the Germans must not get the secret of the mines, they lie dormant for three weeks and they don’t go off until the second ship passes over them, so they are virtually un-sweep able, the Germans used to fly over them with special aircraft with a big magnetic ring on it to try and explode them, they’d gun barges adrift to go over them and nothing, they couldn’t sweep them and, within a few months we’d stopped a hundred percent shipping on the Danube, which was conveying oil from Ploiesti back to the German forces, so it was a very important thing and the fighter defences were enormous, we’d seen planes shot down every few minutes and that was a bit frightening, I used to think ‘I hope there’s not somebody I know in it’, because a plane would fly along beside us for seconds, it seemed like ages, on fire, and slowly descend in a curve and explode on the ground, and we were told, ‘don’t be distracted by crashes’ but you can’t stop looking at them, wondering ‘whose that?’ and thinking ‘why don’t they get out, don’t see any parachutes’, what we didn’t know was that the Germans had upward firing guns, and they’d creep underneath the plane in the dark and fire into the belly of the plane and nobody would see them, so the gunners didn’t open fire and wondered ‘why didn’t the gunners open fire on that?’, nobody told us about it, this was the secret.
CB: No, they were doing this to Liberators? They were certainly doing it to Lancasters weren’t they, they were doing this to Liberators as well?
JA: Yeah and you see we had no ball turret underneath, the RAF took out that bull turret, we hadn’t got a gunner for it anyway and then we had a gun turret in the nose but they took all the guts out of that, to decrease the weight, so we had no guns in the front turret, we had no gun underneath that could’ve seen these upward firing guns and we didn’t carry a lot of ammunition, mining the Danube we would use all our ammunition, immediately I’d drop the bombs, I would rush back to the beam position where I’d got two machine guns, one on either side, there was no gunner for those so in the event of an attack I would use those or when we were mining the Danube, I’d drop the mines, rush back there and use those guns to strafe the shipping on the water or any insulations on the banks, the banks were two hundred feet high, and the Germans used to stretch cables from bank to bank so we had to fly below two hundred feet so we normally went to a hundred feet in the dark above the water, and then we thought we’d be safe, except there was flak barges with barrow balloons and we couldn’t see the cables from those because the barrage ruins were too high up above us and you can’t see a cable in the dark, we were going too fast anyway and, I remember one time there was a man on a barge firing at me with an automatic rifle and I gave him a quick skirt, squirt from the machine gun as I went by, I would’ve like to have met him after the war if you lived to discuss that, you know I didn’t mean it really you know, I’d say ‘I’ve got nothing against you personally’.
CB: But if you’re going to fire at me, I’m firing at you, what was your bomb load on something like this?
JA: Ten thousand pounds, you see we couldn’t carry a big bomb like the Lancaster because we’d got the cat walk going down the centre of the plane, so the bombs had to be hung in rows one above the other on either side of the cat walk, so the biggest bomb we could carry was a thousand pounds, so we carried ten of those, ten thousand pounds, which is plenty anyway and we’d carry pyrotechnics, lots of incendiaries as well.
CB: And what was your job if there was a hang up, and the bomb hadn’t been released?
JA: I had to go along the cat walk, in the dark, with no parachute, and no oxygen, and holding onto the railings in the roof and skidding about on the ten inch wide cat walk, with the, the slipstream would take away my weight so I had a job to keep on my feet and when I got to the bomb which was usually the one right to the back, I would stand on the cat walk with one leg and kick it and it would never fall off, so I had to swing then holding onto the hydraulic pipes, which were not meant to be swung from they are only about an inch diameter, I’d hold them with two hands, my wrists would go like jelly, you know, I’d swing and kick with both feet and when the bomb eventually fell off it was like my stomach went off with it, ‘cause there was always lights twinkling on the ground and thousands of feet below, and one slip and I’m off to the ground you know, seconds to live, that was terrifying. The only other terrifying thing was throwing grenades when I went on an infantry tactics course during training and, swinging propellers, on tiger moths, on a wet windy and muddy day, I thought I’ll swing in to the propeller and get my head cut off, but when I was in South Africa a chap did walk into a propeller, a navigator, and it threw his head over the hangar, so propellers were a danger, you couldn’t see them rotating, they were invisible.
CB: So now you were also involved in what was known as the Warsaw uprising or the support of that, that’s right isn’t it Jim?
JA: Yes but to go back to the mining of the Danube, the first time we mined the Danube, I said to the skipper ‘we’re too low, we’re much too low’ and he said ‘we’re at a hundred feet’ and I thought ‘we’re bloody not’, I could tell by the droplets of water we’re not at a hundred feet, when we got back to base the compass was, the radio compass was checked and we’d been at thirty feet in the dark, if we’d touched the water we’d have been gone, so that, it was terrifying yet there was no, there was no pay off, if you dropped the bombs you’d see the explosions and things, you’ve done something but you dropped mines that are not going to go off for three weeks or more then there’s no, the stress is there, there’s no release from the stress except machine gunning like mad, and then of course on the way back you would get attacked by fighters so then I was stay by the beam guns or as the Americans call them the waist guns, and that was quite exciting really firing those, but the reflector sides illuminated, were too bright, they were meant to be used during the day and I couldn’t see through them at night so I switched them off and I fired watching where the trace goes ‘cause every fifth bullet it was a tracer, so I fired a gun like squirting a hose, and they’d burn out about I don’t know whether it was six hundred yards but up to that time I could see where they were going, firing like watering the garden it was, with a hose pipe [laughing] anyway you were asking me about?
CB: Supporting the Warsaw uprising, dropping the supplies?
JA: Yeah, I’d bombed a place in Hungary, we were pretty tired, it was the second of two nights we’d been in the air, and we eventually got back in the tent to go to bed and within three hours a runner, a runner arrived from the orderly room and he said ‘you’ve got to report for briefing’, we’ve only been in the tent for three hours and we were told you’re going on a secret operation, fly down to Brindisi, we didn’t know what it was all about, and in Brindisi we went into a hut and there was a big map on the end wall and it showed a tape going from Brindisi to Warsaw, we thought well it’s nothing to do with us, the Poles are on our side we’re not going to bomb Warsaw, but then we were briefed and told we’re not going to bomb, we’re going to drop supplies of explosives and ammunition and guns for the underground resistance fighters who were fighting in the city against the Germans and, they were expecting the Russians to arrive any minute so on the 1st of August they’d started to fight, and they were doing well for a few days, and the Russians stopped their advance so the Poles were on their own so they appealed for help, apparently Winston Churchill was in Italy checking the arrangements for the south of France invasion which was imminent and he said, ‘we must help the Poles, we went to join the war on their account, we can’t stand idly by’, our air officer commander told us this later and, so he said we should go with the special duty squadrons, there was an Polish squadron and an RAF squadron dropping supplies but they’d lost so many men so they couldn’t continue so three liberator bomber squadrons were called in to do the supply dropping, they said ‘you must, you must drop from below six hundred feet and the poles said ‘two hundred, otherwise the parachute containers will drift away’ and they said ‘we’ve been there, it’s safer at a hundred feet because then the Germans can’t bring the guns to there because at a hundred feet you’ve come and gone quickly’, but they said ‘there’s one building still standing and that’s sixty meters high, so don’t fly into that in the middle of the night’, when we got to Warsaw, the whole city was on fire, gun fire and everything was burning and we’d been told a particular street and squares where we were to drop the supplies but nothing was recognisable so I remembered them saying, Zoliborz, a district of Warsaw is still in the hands of the insurgents, well that was a few days ago and I thought there doesn’t seem to be any fires, or no fighting going on as far as I could see, we fly around for fifty minutes and planes were getting shot down all around us and I’d eventually counting the bridges, I knew where Zoliborz was, I dropped the supplies there and I said to the wireless operator, ‘we must be bloody mad you know flying around fifty minutes’ and he said ‘well we’re not going all that way to drop them in the wrong bloody place’, I thought we’re all crazy, the psychiatrist reported that we were crazy, in their official reports, which I read after the war, ‘they must be crazy and they all think it won’t happen to them’, it’s insulting, we knew it was going to happen to us sooner or later, why shouldn’t it happen to us, it did happen to me in the end, fortunately it wasn’t quite fatal [laughing] .
CB: Glad to hear it, so that was your philosophy really to imagine that you had been killed already basically?
JA: Well we knew that we would die eventually anyway, so it’s like people ask you ‘when did you have your holidays?’, when you’ve had it, doesn’t matter if it was June or September, its gone, so doesn’t matter when you die really, if you’ve got to die anyway what’s the date matter, we had to tell ourselves that sort of thing, but we had superstitions, we had lots of superstitions, my friend Deakey (?) the navigator, he had a lucky shirt and he couldn’t fly without his lucky shirt and if it was dirty he had to wash and dry it quickly ready for flying that night, we only fly once without his lucky shirt and we got lost, and that was on the way back from Warsaw, we went twice to Warsaw and each night we lost thirty percent and by the third night we’d lost ninety percent, ninety, the air force pretended it was seventeen percent but everybody knows it was ninety percent and there are plenty of documents saying it was ninety percent and our air officer commanding Sir John Slessor wrote a book in which he [said] the time of the Warsaw uprising was the worst time of his career and he mentioned it was ninety percent but after the war, Stalin had to be appeased so we didn’t want to tell, didn’t want to emphasize anything we did that he didn’t agree with, ‘cause Stalin was anti-Poles and he’d stopped his army to allow the Germans to polish off Warsaw, and Hitler said eradicate Warsaw, it was to be razed to the ground and he gave an order ‘all inhabitants to be killed’ and the new German commander who wrote a book after the war, he said ‘you don’t mean women and children?’ and he was told ‘yes’ [emphasis], the whole population is to be killed, that’s what was going on when we were flying over there, and we were told ‘if you get shot down near the Russian lines, they will shoot you, especially if you are dressed in blue’, well of course we were dressed in blue we were in the Air Force, so it was a bit late to tell us that now and, while we were flying to Warsaw we were being shot at by the Russians and the Germans because they didn’t agree with us helping the Poles, the Poles got a medal, the Germans got a special badge, the Russians got a medal, I’ve got one of them as a souvenir, and we got nothing, we got no recognition.
CB: Andy your pilot comes over as very calm.
JA: Yes, he was very determined, he was very stubborn and of course he was the skipper, he was in charge but I always felt that I was in charge you see and when we were lost on the way back from Warsaw, Deakey the navigator called me up and said ‘Jimmy can I have a word with you’, well I thought there’s something wrong and I just asked him a little while ago, ‘do you want a pinpoint?’ ‘cause I would navigate by map reading all the way there and back you see, but I hadn’t bothered because he, I said ‘do you want a pinpoint?’ and he said ‘no, no I’m alright’ now he says ‘can I have a word with you?’, so I scrambled up the front to the nose compartment and the tears were dripping off his chin and he said ‘I don’t know what country we’re over’, I said ‘give me the typographical maps, I’m shit hot at map reading, I could tell you in a few seconds where you are’ and I said ‘we’ve got no maps for this place whatever it is’, when we should be over the sea, we’re over land and when we should be over land we were over the sea of course we were over the Greek islands, they’re all messy you know, the little bits and we’ve got no map for that place and I didn’t know until after the way why we hadn’t got a map, the reason was he’d got diarrhoea and he’d used the map because there wasn’t any toilet in plane, and he wrapped it up and chucked it out down the flare shoot, that’s where the map was the Germans had got it, bit messy, and the plane had been on fire, the wireless operator had the wireless set in pieces and he was in his element putting it together, you know mending it, he was busy and I, went up the front to have a chat to the skipper with Andy, and I said to the flight engineer, he pushed past me to look at the fuel gauges, they were like a gauge on an oil tank, like a domestic oil tank, visual gauge with a bubble in tubes, I said ‘how we’re doing?’ he said ‘empty’, I said ‘we can’t be empty we’re still flying’ he said ‘yeah but I don’t know how long for’, we’re flying over aerodromes with German planes with black crosses on, they’re freight planes but we daren’t try and land there otherwise the you know the ground defences open up on us, so I said to Andy ‘we’re heading to the mountains’ and I said to him ‘land on this road’ I said ‘these strong, straight roads’ I said ‘we’re just flying over one now, look you can land here, that’s what I would do if I were you’ and he said ‘I think we’ll press on’, I thought ‘you’re mad, press on, [emphasis] we’re flying into the mountains and we’re out of fuel, and in any minute all the engines are going to cut out’, anyway he was right and we did press on and we got eventually over the sea and the radio operator had got the wireless together again and he always used to stand up and point when he was listening on the radio and he started waving his arms about and pointing and he said its Brindisi and we were facing the runway, we running up to Brindisi and we went straight in, if there had been anybody in the way we couldn’t have done round the circuit because when we got to the end of the runway the, all engines cut out, out of fuel, so we told the duty pilot where we were and that we were out of fuel, so they put some fuel in and flew back to Amendola near Foggia, of course we’d been gone so long we couldn’t still be in the air, our trip was eleven hours and forty minutes plus over an hour going to Brindisi over an hour coming back so we were so tired, I’d already dropped off to sleep for the last half an hour and when the plane landed I was still asleep and the ground crew got in and stirred me with a foot to wake me up, I was just dead tired, I’d been in the air longer than I’d been on the ground for about three days and no sleep at all you know (tired, hungry?) yeah but we were always hungry.
CB: And then you’d have to have the debriefing?
JA: Yes, that didn’t take long because we were always a bit impatient at debriefing, we’d answer questions, we didn’t volunteer any information and always something had gone wrong with the plane, like the guns didn’t fire, the oxygen cylinders were empty, all sorts of things, one engine cut out, two engines cut out and the ground crew would run out to us soon as we landed and they’d shout ‘any snags, any snags?’ and we’d swear and shout and say ‘this went wrong and that went wrong’ using lots of ‘f’ words but then we’d never report the snags, because we relied on those lads and it wasn’t their fault, the planes were clapped out anyway and they’d work through the night perhaps maintenance and they couldn’t get spares and some of the things they did were, were fatal, and they couldn’t help it, one of them said to me, ‘I don’t get very close to the air crews, I don’t make friends with them because’ he said ‘if a plane goes missing I’d wonder if I did something wrong or whether I’d forgot to do something’ and he said ‘I’ve been on a squadron a long time and lots of planes have gone missing and I always feel it might be my fault’ so he said ‘I don’t like to get friendly with air crews’, I can understand that, when I used to go to the, we weren’t allowed to take anything with us like a bus ticket or money or anything like that, and so I had a little wallet and I used to hand it to the sergeant fitter, ground crew fitter and I’d say ‘take that Jake and if I don’t come back you can keep it’, and he’d take it but he didn’t like touching it really and when I got back he’d shove it at me as soon as he could ‘cause he didn’t want anything to do with dead men’s property and I can understand that you know, he was squeamish and when I got wounded he was the chap who lifted me up and carried me out of the plane.
CB: So what happened on that your final operation obviously, what was it the thirty-seventh out of forty?
JA: Yes
CB: And what happened Jim?
JA: When we were told the target would be undefended, and for the first time ever you can bomb anywhere in the town, it’s just full of Germans, so I dropped a stick of bombs at predetermined intervals, and I hit about two or three blocks of flats right in the middle, the next one between two blocks of flats, the next one a road and rail junction, and then I said to the skipper, ‘hold this course for half a minute because we’re going into mountains now’, and we were low you see because the visibility you had to come down very low, ‘cause of the cloud, and just as I said that the tail gunner said ‘it’s flak, it’s stern’ and WOOF [emphasis to express being hit], and it’s a sensation like if you’re playing football and the football is wet and heavy and somebody kicks it and it hits you straight in the face, it’s a numb sensation at first and then comes the pain, well this was like a puff of wind, like being hit with something but no pain what so ever and then floods of blood, I seemed to be bleeding to death, and I felt for my parachute pack because I thought we were getting shot down but I was the only one hit actually, we were hit in one engine and me and the navigator wrote in his diary; ‘Jim’s eyeball is hanging out on his cheek’ [laughs] actually it wasn’t, I’d got a lump of Perspex because all the Perspex had become shrapnel, and there was a piece about four inches long stuck in my eyeball and of course all the blood was running down my face because I was hit in the head and the face and everywhere and the blood running down this Perspex made it look as though my eye was hanging out you see so he couldn’t look at me, so he tapped me on the head and I could see he was talking, we had throat microphones, American throat microphones, it were very efficient and he was telling the crew I’d been hit, I crawled under the flight deck and when I stood up in the well, the back of the flight deck, the wireless operator had got all the first aid kits open and he wanted to put one on my face but he was hesitant to do it and I thought ‘do it, do it’, but of course there was this four inch long piece of shrapnel stuck in my eye, and it wasn’t until it fell out that he could put bandages on and then he bandaged everything that was bloody including my right arm which was badly damaged and my left arm which I’d used to investigate my other wounds and that wasn’t damaged but it was very bloody so he bandaged that as well, he bandaged everything and then he said ‘I’ll give you a shot of morphine’, I said ‘I’m not in pain’, I had no pain what so ever and that frightened me because I thought, if you get your legs chopped off you don’t feel any pain, because the body reacts as though you get shock but you don’t feel pain and I thought I’m dying, I must be dying and I said ‘I’m not in any pain I don’t need morphine’ and he got some out the first aid thing and I’d got my eyes shut and he stuck the thing in my arm and the morphine came like a marble, raised up, it didn’t disperse and when we landed he said to the ground crew ‘I’ve tied a label on him saying I gave him morphine at twelve o’clock, but I know now that I shouldn’t do that because he’s got a head wound’ and ‘oh Christ he’s killed me instead of the Germans’ [laughing].
But anyway, all we did all the time was sing and tell jokes, and it was like a rugby club –
CB: In the military hospital?
JA: No on the squadron, we weren’t morose and we weren’t miserable, in fact everything was hilarious and because we had to keep flying it didn’t matter what we did, hooliganism didn’t matter, drunkenness, it didn’t matter, because we were either up in the air or we had a group stand down when we’d have two of three days off due to so many casualties, waiting for new crews and new aeroplanes, and we’d get drunk and forget everything you see, and if, if unexpectedly we had to fly after a night a free night in the mess and drunkenness, we’d have a headache like you’ve never experienced and I went to the medical officers little cubby hole and there was a youth leaning up the doorpost and I pushed past him and I was opening boxes and things looking for an aspirin and I said to this fella, ‘do you know where they keep the aspirins?’ and he said ‘yeah’ and he told me and I said ‘you know your way around?’ and he said ‘yeah I’m the medical officer’ [laughs]
CB: So you found yourself in this hospital?
JA: Yeah when, after we landed, I was put on a stretcher, propped up in a sitting position on some blankets, some blankets behind me and it seemed to take ages and the flight engineer said ‘what’s the bloody delay? Get him to hospital’ and they said ‘we’re checking the first aid kits’ which all had been opened and used and they said ‘there’s a pair of scissors missing’ and that’s why they were delaying and he said ‘if you don’t get him to hospital right away I’m gonna bloody do the lot of ya’, and he was a tough Shetlander and that made them pull their socks up, and they put me in the ambulance to go seven miles, no twenty miles into Foggia to the general hospital, military hospital, and the skipper said ‘I’ll come with you’, well he shouldn’t have, he should’ve gone back to be debriefed but I was glad he came with me, ‘cause I didn’t know what I looked like, I didn’t know if my ear had been chopped off or whether I’d got a complete nose ‘cause I knew a piece of shrapnel had creased the top of my nose and the bottom, I didn’t know how bad things were and he said I can show you and he and he got a little stainless steel or chrome mirror in his pocket and he showed me but that’s very distorting and I thought ‘bloody hell look at that’, and I heard the nurses talking and they were talking as though I was already dead and one of them said ‘he must have been a good looking boy’, he must have been? [emphasis] I’m still here, you know, and they stripped me, cut all me clothes off and I felt a bit embarrassed because I’d borrowed a pair of long johns from the tail gunner and I was stripped down to my long johns and I felt that was a bit embarrassing because long johns were a bit silly aren’t they, and then the skipper went back then but he had to hitch hike back and he was in his flying kit you know, and when he got back he got a bollock-ing ‘cause he should have gone straight back not gone to the hospital with me, and anyway he got over that and they decided as he’d done one more trip than me anyway and they couldn’t manage without me and they hadn’t got anyone to replace me, the crew could stop now and go for a rest period, and after a few days they did go, and so there I was in hospital four and a half hours, and a chap from the squadron had sprained his wrist or something and he called at the hospital, to see the medical officer at the hospital and he said, the medical officer said ‘we’ve got a chap from your squadron in here’ and he said ‘oh I’d like to go and see him’ and he said ‘no you better not he’s just recovering from four and a half hours on the operating table so you won’t be able to talk to him yet’, and I came round and it was evening but I couldn’t see and I was bound up like an invisible man, just all bandages and I could see a white apparition by the bed and I thought ‘I’m alive’, surprisingly and I muttered, [clears throat] ‘could you tell me if they’ve taken my ear off?’ and this thing said ‘what are you here for?’, and I said ‘I’ve been wounded’, and she said ‘well you’re have to wait until the day staff comes on, I don’t know anything about you’ so I had to wait the rest of the night to find out whether I’d got a nose and whether I had only got one ear and that worried my because in the day of short haircuts I thought I’d look a fool with only one ear [slight laugh] isn’t that silly and, of course I was blind in one eye and the, every hour they dropped penicillin in my eye, it was icy cold, they said ‘you’re lucky, you’re being treated with this new penicillin, new’, I’d never even heard of it and I said ‘can you warm it up, it’s cold’ they said ‘we keep it in the refrigerator’ [slight laugh], anyway, after a few days I was totally blind because my left, my left eye had been alright, well reasonable but then I was totally blind in both eyes and I heard them muttering about cross infection in the ward and I had to lie flat on my back for a month, thirty days I wasn’t allowed to sit up or move due to the eye treatment, they said ‘we’ve healed eyes before but usually they get an infection in the end and we have to remove them’ and I thought well if I can’t see with it it doesn’t matter, I might look alright with an eye patch, a talking point and they transferred me to another ward, they lifted me up flat, put me on a stretcher, wheeled me away, and all the others in the ward had thought I’d died and I said well nobody talked to me anyway, they said, ‘well when your eyes were bound up we didn’t know whether you were awake or asleep’, well I didn’t know what time it was or what date it was or anything and I used to doze off and come back to consciousness again all the time and I never knew whether it was morning or afternoon or evening and I used to listen to what was going on, are these night time sounds or day time sounds, very difficult to tell. Anyway I then after a while when I’d recovered a bit I had more operations on my eye under local anaesthetic, terribly painful, they picked out bits of steel, bits of Perspex and a piece of wood and the chap said to me, ‘what wood was there in the air craft?’ I said ‘well it was made of aluminium’ he said ‘well you’ve got a piece of wood in your eye, a tiny piece’, then I remembered, there was an air blower near the bomb airmen’s position and it would blow in my face so I used to put map over it and stand the astro compass box up against it and it was made of wood and of course that had been shattered and a piece of wood obviously went in my eye, and when they cut my clothes off in the hospital I’d got three pullovers on, lots of clothes you know, multiples of everything and two of the pullovers were air force issue but one I’d brought at Marks and Spencer’s before I joined up and I thought ‘steady on that’s my pullover they cut in half’ you know and that watch that got took off I brought that you know, got no compensation, but anyway it was terrible in the hospital because nobody had any time for me, I don’t know whether they were opposed to the bomber offensive or what it was.
CB: So what nationality were they, the nursing staff?
JA: British, in that hospital they were British, in a second hospital they had Italian nurses that was a bit better but the British nurses were quite cruel really and, except for one, she used to be on night duty and she’d come and sit on the bed and talk to me at night and bring me a cup of tea, I think she fancied me [laughing] and anyway when I could stand up, because I felt very dizzy, it was very difficult to stand up after being about six weeks in bed and I’d only got blood stained clothes on, ‘cause one battle dress was though the rats had eaten it, it just fell open, as I’d got more than one battle dress on, one of them weren’t too bad and, but it was all blood stained and my flying boots were all caped with blood and I felt stupid you know I wanted to have proper clothes, and I felt very truculent and resentful, and the nurse came round and she said ‘lie to attention’ [emphasis] and I said ‘what does that mean?’, she said ‘both arms above the sheets down by your sides, feet together, head straight’, [coughs] I said ‘I can’t do it’, can we wait a minute [pauses] and then got it up gradually from twenty to eighty percent.
CB: So you’re still in the hospital, how long were you in the hospital?
JA: Three months and I was transferred then to a place called Torre del Greco to another hospital, and we’d got Italian nurses there, very pretty, black hair and uniforms, white dresses with a red cross on their chest and their English was a bit faulty and they’d come round every day and ask me ‘lavatory?’ [puts on an accent] and I’d say ‘what’s that?’, ‘lavatory?’ [in accent again], that’s all they could say and I’d say ‘I don’t understand’, and then they’d write something down and go away and I was there for a month and then I was discharged and told you’re on twenty four hour stand by to go back to England wounded, never happened, after a few weeks, they put red crosses on my kit bags and loaded them on board a ship, I had a two week visit, sorry a two week voyage back to England through the, past Gibraltar, through the Bay of Biscay, submarine alert all the time, no beds no chairs and I sat on a form leaning on a table for two weeks.
CB: Still of course not a hundred percent?
JA: No I was ill, very ill and every now and then submarine alert and I’d got to scramble up on deck in a life vest and over coat and have to stand there in the drizzle and rain until the submarine alert was over, and I wasn’t treated as an invalid at all, I was just with the other troops, nobody had a bed, nobody had a chair, if some of them if they were lucky they could climb on the table and sleep on the table but I couldn’t get on the table so I had to sit on the form and lean forward on the table all night, and we put into Liverpool and we spent twenty four hours in the docks while the customs went thoroughly through the ship examining everything, I thought some people have been abroad for several years, what the hell are they looking for? and we’re all British anyway, and then I got off the boat and I had to carry two kit bags with the red crosses on, all to the station put them on the train unaided, I thought ‘what they hell are the red crosses for?’, and I reported to the Air Ministry with me two kit bags and they said ‘you’ve been sent back because they haven’t got the right facilities for treating you in Italy’, so I expected to go back into hospital again but they gave me five weeks leave, didn’t give me any money, they didn’t ask me where will you go on your five weeks leave but they said ‘every week report here again’, well my, fortunately my father was at an Air Ministry unit at Harrow and my parents lived in Hillingdon on the outskirts of London, so I could live with them, the morning after I arrived there, in my funny garb of odds and sods and I hadn’t got a proper uniform, I heard the first time of Doodlebug what we called pilotless planes (B1) I had heard about them, didn’t realise they were so noisy, I knew when the motor cut out they’d come down and one came over and the motor stopped and I said to my mother ‘what do you do?’ she said ‘don’t do anything’ and she went outside to peg some washing on the line and it just dropped at Greenford, which was not very far away from [pauses] not very far away from where we were living and then the rockets came and they were terrifying, the V2s, the rockets, because you’d hear terrible explosion and then hear them coming and in the newspapers and on the radio it was saying ‘gas mains exploding all over London’, well that was a lie, my father knew what they were and he was told ‘don’t evacuate your family as it will cause panic’ so he had to stay there, couldn’t tell his family the danger, it was quite silly during the war because when the Germans bombed a town we weren’t allowed to know which town it was, on the radio it would say ‘bombs were dropped at random’ and we thought ‘Random must be totally destroyed by now because its bombed every night’ [laughs], anyway my father said ‘haven’t you got a proper uniform’, I’d got this brown battle dress which I wore with a blue shirt and a black tie and a hat that had collapsed with a badge I had brought in a bazaar in Egypt which wasn’t a regulation badge, an air force badge it was sort of a souvenir thing bought in a bazaar ‘cause someone had stolen my badge and, he sized me up and brought me a tunic anyway but I was wearing a flying badge and strips on this brown thing and I was hoping people would ask me ‘what the hell are you?’ but nobody ever asked and I was passing military policemen, they should have said ‘excuse me, what air force are you in?’, nobody ever asked because there was so many foreigners in London of different armies and air forces that everybody looked different, anyway I realised I wasn’t, on my weekly visits to the Air Ministry, I wasn’t seen by what I would call proper doctors, I was seeing men in white coats, now psychiatry was in this infantry or psycho analysis and we were prime subjects for it because we were all bloody crackers, you see, so they asked me all sorts of questions, not about my injuries, no medical treatment but things like ‘do you like girls? What sort of girls do you like? Do you dream? What do you dream about?’ so I made things up, course the chap was writing things all down in long hand, ‘what sort of girls do you like?’ I said ‘girls with red hair’, well I had only known one girl with red hair, I nearly said to him girls who do or girls who say yes [laughing] but ‘what do you dream about’ so I made it up a dream and told him and it would amuse me to see him scribbling it all down, no medical treatment what so ever then I got a telegram, report to Innsworth, and I said to my father who’d worked his way up you see from being a corporal in the first world war to being a squadron leader, acting wing commander and he knew all the ropes, I said to him ‘god I could do with a few more days leave’ and he said ‘well send them a telegram’, I said what will I say?’ he said ‘wedding’, so I thought telegram style is quite ambiguous you see, and instead of saying ‘I request extension of leave for my wedding’ I just said ‘for wedding’, so it could be anybody’s wedding, they said forty eight hours granted and report to Manby in Lincolnshire, well I still hadn’t got proper uniform and everything, just one tunic my father had given me, this funny cap and other odd things you know, and I had to buy everything I needed to make it up, you should have three of everything, three pairs of trousers, three tunics etc. I had to buy it from the stores and a 664B which it the payment on clothing on repayment form, I can remember even the name of the form, form 664B, and I had it stopped out of my pay, so I was looking for a job, nobody knew what I was there for, there were people on a course, officers training courses and I said, they said ‘are you an instructor’ I said ‘I don’t know, can I look at your books?’ they showed me the books and I said ‘no I don’t know any of this stuff, it’s all up to date, you know I don’t know it so I can’t be an instructor’, ‘are you a pupil?’ I said ‘no I’m off flying so I can’t be a pupil’, I got pally with the armourist officer and I said ‘I’m sick of just hanging about, three weeks and nothing to do and have you got anything I can do?’ and he said ‘well we need someone to take charge of the low level bombing range but it’s night work’, I said ‘well I’ve got nothing to do during the day or during the night so I might as well be working at night, sleeping in the day’, so he gave me a squad of blokes and WAAFs and I was in charge of bombing range so after another three or four weeks he said ‘guess what, your documents have come through and you are attached to my section anyway, what would you like to do?’, I said ‘well what is there?’, he gave me two or three options and said ‘there’s a detachment on the coast with three bombing ranges, have a ride out there on the ration lorry, see if you like it, you can take charge of one of the ranges’, so I thought well anything to get away from the real air force, get away on a detachment.
CB: Your eyes were alright now were they?
JA: No, no I still couldn’t see out of my right eye, but they said, they introduced peace time regulations and things you see after the war had ended, and they said annual musketry, everybody must attend so I went to the rifle range and I fired off so many rounds and I didn’t get any bullets on the target at all, so they said ‘something must be wrong there, will you do it again?’, well I couldn’t see the target never mind hit it, and I was trying to use my left eye with the rifle on the right side you see and that’s impossible, anyway I was in charge of the bombing range for a year or two and I was sent for by the commanding officer, he was an air commodore and he said ‘air crews are allowed to take trade training’, and I said ‘well I don’t need any because I’ll be demobbed in about six months, demobilised, don’t need any trade training’, I said ‘what is there anyway?’, he said you’re only allowed to take group one or group two trades and I said ‘what are the group one’s and group two’s?’ he said ‘there aren’t any’, I said ‘well what is there then?’ he said ‘well if don’t volunteer for one of these I’ll damn well send you on one’ he said ‘there’s plenty of openings for cooks’, I said ‘oh I’d like to be a cook’, I thought you’re in the warm and you can get plenty to eat if you’re in the cook house, I said ‘I’d like to train as a cook’ and he was furious, he said ‘that’s a group five trade, you’re not allowed to take a low trade’ well I thought well it’d be nice you know in the winter in the cook house [laughing] so he said ‘I’m sending you on a photographic course’, so all the other people, I was in charge of the course of twenty five men because I was a senior man, and the others were people who had joined up to fly but before they could start training the war had finished so they got to go onto ground jobs, and the ones on the course were amateur photographers and they knew everything, well all I knew was you point a camera and press the thing and you send it off to Boots, and when it comes back it’s prints and how they do it I don’t care, but now I had to learn all about it, take photographs of things moving and you know all sorts, people walking, cycling, aeroplanes taking off and all that, I learned quite a bit actually and then I was transferred to Benson, near Oxford and I was put in charge of the photographic section, well I was the most naive photographer in the world because I wasn’t even interested, but I was put in charge and they were doing an air survey of the United Kingdom and Scandinavia, and doing hundreds of feet of film and it was all going through machines and it was all automatic, well I’d never seen such machinery and the photographic officer was always sliding off somewhere and he’d put me in charge and disappear and when he came back he’d say ‘hundreds of yards of film have been ruined’ and ‘how did that happen?’ and he said ‘you didn’t make them clean the film’ well I didn’t know they had to clean the film [slight laugh], so it wasn’t too bad because there was a lot of women there, WAAFs, they were quite jolly and I used to open the section at nine o’clock in the morning and they’d say ‘right we’re go off to breakfast now’ and we’d go down by the river, the Thames and have bacon and eggs and stroll back when we felt like it, and I hadn’t got the faintest idea, some of the people knew what they were doing and some didn’t you see, I didn’t know at all [laughs], so eventually I was demobilised from there and it took place at Uxbridge and I was given a chalk striped suit, like Max Miller I felt, and a hat, I’d never worn a trilby hat and we looked in mirrors in our civilian clothes and laughed like hell because we’d never worn anything like that before and when we come out the demobilisation centre there were chaps hanging around offering you two quid for the box of clothing, I offered them the hat, they didn’t want that, they wanted coats and trousers, ‘cause clothing was rationed you see, and the thing I would have really like to keep was an over coat because they had good overcoats in the air force and I hadn’t worn an overcoat you see, so I went to a market and they were selling second hand clothes which weren’t rationed and I brought a sailor’s overcoat [laughs].
CB: Did you keep in touch with your crew after the war?
JA: Up until the time they died, yes, except the one from the Shetlands who emigrated to New Zealand so we lost touch with him, but the rest of us stayed in touch until they all died, one at a time, not all together but they got heart attacks and cancer and things and I think that was through the stress they had during the war.
CB: You became a very successful international businessman after the war.
JA: I did, yes, I devoted all my time to educating myself, I attended a technical school, it was a commercial and technical school, they had commercial boys who did short hand typing and book keeping and technical boys, I was one, we did metal work and wood work and higher mathematics’ and science, advance subjects you know, we didn’t do the nice subjects like art anymore and scripture and things you know, easy subjects, we didn’t do that.
CB: There is one point I wanted to ask you, you were awarded the DFM, the Distinguished Flying Medal –
JA: Yes.
CB: Did you accept it?
JA: No I didn’t, I got a message, chaps used to come into town, my old friends who’d trained with me and were still on the squadron and they’d come in they said, one of them said, ‘see you got a gong then?’ and I said ‘I don’t know anything about it’, he said it was on DROs, daily routine orders, I did know about it because an officer appeared one day in the hospital and he sat on the bed next to me and I couldn’t see him, I couldn’t recognise him properly, because my eyes were badly affected and he said, in a very pompous way he said, ‘I have honour to inform you, that you have been awarded the Distinguished Flying Medal’ and it was as though I could hear a radio on in the background, it didn’t sound like me at all, and I heard myself saying ‘tell them to stick it up their arse, I don’t want a bloody medal, I want some clothes, I want a shirt and a tunic, and some trousers, I want some shoes’, because they hadn’t provided me with anything and another thing that upset me was a bitch had had puppies on the squadron, in the tent lines, and I’d got one of these puppies and that was the only thing I’d got in the world, I’d got the rest of the crew but I didn’t own them and the only thing I owned was this little Italian dog, he was a kind of Labrador and I used to save a bit on my plate from dinner or breakfast and bring it back for him, put it on the ground and he’d lick the plate clean, and the next morning I’d go to breakfast, forget to wash the plate and I’d remember later ‘oh god I forgot to wash the plate’, because it was always so clean, you see he’d licked it clean, and the lads came to the hospital and they said ‘the CO’s had all the dogs shot’, ‘what, why’d he do that, shot all the dogs?’, ‘cause they were good for morale those dogs and I used to look forward to my little dog you know when I came back from my trips, it might be the last day of my life, and he shot it, and that’s why I didn’t take the DFM, why I told them to stick it up their arse, now years after the war when I moved to Lincolnshire from London, where I live now, I was in Lincoln when I met somebody who turned out to be a flight commander from the squadron, and he was not the same flight I was in, we had A flight and B flight, he was the other flight and he said, I didn’t know him on the squadron ‘cause he came after I’d you know done most of my trips, he was the new boy, and he said ‘do you know the CO is still alive, he lives in Norfolk’ I said ‘no, I didn’t know that’ he said ‘I’ll give you his details, his telephone number and address’, so I phoned him and I said ‘I’d like to come and check a few things with you ‘cause I’m writing a manuscript for a book and the sort of things I’ve heard, I heard that you were a group captain dropped down to wing commander because you wanted what the Americans called some combat time, we thought you must be bloody potty,’ because he was non-compassionate at that time you see, I said ‘there’s certain things I’d like to check with you whether it’s true or not’, I went to see him, I said you never talked to us on the squadron because we were sergeants, he said ‘well I couldn’t because you were so much more experienced than me’ he said ‘I kept a low profile’ and I said ‘well you won’t remember me but I’ll tell you something now and it’ll remind you who I am’ and I told him about the DFM and where it should be stuck and he was flabbergasted, I had come back from dead you know to haunt him and he’d got a couple of dogs there you know, young two dogs, and how would he feel now if I shot his dogs –
CB: Did you mention that to him?
JA: I didn’t no, I just told him I was so embittered and outraged that I didn’t want the bloody medal but of course it was a mistake, looking at the Antiques Roadshow one day, I saw a few ordinary medals being auctioned and a DFM, and the DFM made about six thousand pounds or something put together with the other medals and I said to my wife what a fool I was I should’ve taken it, but it was involuntary you know when I said it, it was as though I wasn’t speaking, I was listening to somebody saying it, and I was in a bad way of course, I’d got no short term memory, for many months, I didn’t dare tell anybody because I wanted to get back on to flying you see, I thought you can fly with one eye, I’m not interested in anything else only flying, they wouldn’t have it, and [pauses] I was eventually, I was on this photographic course and coming out of a darkroom into the sunlight I couldn’t see I was blinded, my eyes are streaming, so I was sent to an army doctor in Aldershot, and he said to me ‘you’re up to British army standards’ and I said ‘maybe I am because you’re calling up people with one eye now’, they were towards the end of the war they called up people to serve with one eye. And I went back to my unit, one day I was called for by the medical officer and he said ‘you should have had a medical board last year’, I said ‘I did have one’ and he said ‘why do you say that? Nothing in your records about it’, I said ‘I went to Watchfield and I had a railway warrant for myself and a party of airmen and I was in charge, ‘and what do alleged happened?’, I said ‘well the medical officer who gave me a board he said ‘what’s your condition?’ and I said ‘about the same’ and he said ‘right we’ll leave it at that then, same’ and he said ‘I can’t understand you saying that’, and I said, he was flicking over pages in a file, I said, the pages are numbered, I said to him ‘there’s one page missing’ he said ‘it’s nothing to do with you’, I said ‘well it’s my records it’s something to do with me, that’s the page that gives you know, details of my last medical board’, he said ‘I’m a squadron leader, I’m competent to conduct medical boards, you are A1’, and I thought I can’t be A1, what’s their game, I thought, well they don’t want to pay me a pension for not being A1, so nothing I can do about it, I left the Air Force and I signed on with a panel doctor just before the National Health Service came into being, and he said I’ll just check you over while you’re here and he said ‘good God man you’re in a terrible state, what the hell has happened to you?’ I said ‘I was wounded when I was flying in the Air Force’, he said ‘well you should get a pension’ and I said ‘I can’t get a pension, I’m A1’ [laughs] he said ‘the bastards’ he said, ‘they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it’, he said ‘I’ll get some British Legion forms and fill them in for you, you sign it and send them off’, so that happened, I took a day off, I thought this is a waste of time and they said ‘yes you are due for compensation’, gave me nine shillings a week, nine shillings, I didn’t need nine shillings anyway within two years I was an armour men’s designer working for the Ministry of Defence and from there I progressed upwards until I was managing director or chairman of three companies at the same time and I was making an awful lot of money.
CB: How do you look back at your time in the RAF? is it with –
JA: With disgust, you see when I was a child, daddy was in the Air Force, all his friends were in the Air Force, they were my heroes, we were, Douglas Bader was stationed on there and he used to come to my father’s house and I saw Lord Trenchard, he was going by in his car on the aerodrome and people who became very famous later and I admired them, they were all my heroes, Amy Johnson and Jim Mollison, all those people you know, civilian pilots, I didn’t know any other life so naturally I joined the Royal Air Force and when we were living at Cranwell, that time 1929 and then again just before the war, the Royal Air Force was known as the world’s finest flying club, it wasn’t very big, only about thirty thousand men in the RAF, they would join with no rank and they’d go out in seven years with no rank, there was no promotion, you see there’s no expansion until late 1930’s and everybody seemed to know everybody, my father knew every commanding officer throughout the world, and he was well known, when I was in the RAF people remembered him you know and they’d look at my name and they’d say ‘have you got any relations in the service?’, and my brother was in the RAF and he said ‘I always say no, ‘cause we don’t want to let the old man down’, ‘cause he was a bit of a scallywag, and anyway, I used to forget to draw my pension of nine shillings a week, forty five pence nowadays and it would go on for about three months and I had to write away for it, and I let things slide ‘cause I was making an awful lot of money, I was eating in the best restaurants in the West End and hotels all over the world, staying in the best hotels.
CB: What do you think you would’ve done if you hadn’t gone in the RAF?
JA: God knows
CB; Do you think you would have just brought your success as a businessman you just have brought that forward as it were and you would’ve started it straight away?
JA: I don’t know.
CB: Or did you need your time in the RAF to form and develop?
JA: I think the RAF made me very aggressive and when I went for a job after ready for coming out of the RAF, I was in uniform and I had an interview with the personnel manager of an engineering firm and he said ‘what were you doing in the Air Force?’ no ‘what were you doing in the war?’, well I was dressed in uniform, I’d got a flying badge and medal ribbons, I thought it was pretty obvious what I was doing, I said ‘I was flying in the Royal Air Force’ ‘oh’ he said ‘not much use to us is it?’, I was very aggressive at that time, the war had made me a bit loopy, and I felt like I wanted to knock his head off but I thought just a minute he’s right, I’ve learnt how to fly an aeroplane, how to drop bombs, how to blow people up, how to shoot people, I’ve learnt nothing that’s of any use to a civilian employer, he’s right I’ve completely wasted my time, if I been a cook or a lorry driver I would have something to contribute, but that made me determined to overtake all the people who hadn’t served in the war so I started at the bottom in a factory, and I went to evening classes and I had private tutors, I spent all my money on tuition, I got language teachers, I leaned Latin, I learned Russian, and I perfected my German and within two years I was head of the German department in import export firm with only Germans working for me, because I was an engineer and a German speaking Englishman, so I’d got an advantage there, and the cold war had started, and I thought either there’s going to be a war with Russia or eventually the Soviet empire is so big there will be a demand for things –
CB: that’s where you did most of your trade –
JA: So I learnt Russian so I could negotiate contracts in Moscow in Russian –
CB: Tenacious, determined.
JA: Well I was determined to do better than everybody, I went for an interview ,when I first came out of the Air Force, because I understand the government were giving grants to ex-service men, and I went for an interview and they said ‘what were you doing before you joined the Royal Air Force?’ and I said ‘well I was in school until just before’, they said ‘were you not studying for a profession?’, I said ‘I was only seventeen when I joined the air force, I was studying higher mathematics and subjects that would get me through the selection board to be a pilot’, I said ‘the town was being bombed and I thought by joining the Air Force I could help to stop that’, they looked at me, they were thinking you simpleton, they said ‘we only give grants to professional people’, so few weeks later I made another application and the attitude to me was humiliating or intended to be humiliating, so I got, I was fed up with being humiliated so I told the interviewee off, I really told him off, in words, you’ve never heard before and the second man who was sitting with him, when I left, rushed out with me and jumped in the lift and he said ‘thank you for doing that’, he said ‘that was wonderful the way you told him off, I’ve had to sit there for weeks listening to his rudeness’ he said ‘you really fixed him’. When I got a job as an armours designer, because I’d been in the Air Force and been shot, not because I knew anything about designing [slight pause], all the other people in the department had gone straight from school, into the ministry and they’d all got a free education and got a higher national certificate which is what I wanted to do you see, so I thought they’ve never been in the service and they’re the same age as me and they’re well ahead of me, got their qualifications, I’ll beat them, I’ve got to be better than them, so that’s what drove me on, I was inferior and I became superior ‘cause I had to, I had to do it, I spent all my money on studying, spent all my time on studying.
CB: Well that’s been a fantastic story Jim, thank you very much indeed.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Jim Auton
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Great Britain. Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Jim Auton grew up on Royal Air Force stations and joined the Royal Air Force at seventeen. He trained as a pilot navigator and bomber at RAF Ansty near Coventry, then in South Africa under the Empire Air Training Scheme. He trained on B-24s at Lidder and after travelling up through Africa was stationed at Foggia in Italy, where he started his operations. He describes the tough conditions there, as well as the operations in which he participated, such as targeting an oil refinery in Fiume, now known as Rijeka in Croatia and Ploiesti in Romania. He took part in mining operations in the Danube as well as secret operations to drop supplies in Warsaw to support the uprising. Whilst on his thirty-seventh operation, he was injured and describes his time in hospital, the journey home and his ground jobs in the Royal Air Force after the war. He also relates why he turned down a Distinguished Flying Medal, and recounts his post-war career as a businessman.
Creator
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Clare Bennett
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-08
Contributor
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Emma Bonson
Heather Hughes
Language
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eng
Identifier
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AAutonJF150608
Format
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02:13:37 audio recording
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Warwickshire
Croatia--Rijeka
Danube River
Egypt
Italy--Foggia
Poland--Warsaw
Italy
Poland
Romania--Ploiești
Croatia
Romania
Danube River
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
animal
B-24
bombing
coping mechanism
demobilisation
Distinguished Flying Medal
fear
military living conditions
military service conditions
mine laying
RAF Ansty
RAF Benson
sanitation
superstition
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Warsaw airlift (4 August - 28 September 1944)
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/115/3594/ABaileyHH160501.1.mp3
c187bc9461210d109c6c12f4c52d0e9e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bailey, Harold H
H H Bailey
Bill Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
The collection consists of an oral history interview with Harold Hubert 'Bill' Bailey (b. 1925, 2221922 Royal Air Force) and eight photographs.
Bill Bailey completed 37 operations as a rear gunner with 31 Squadron, South African Air Force as part of 205 Group. He flew from Egypt, Palestine and Italy and took part in supply drops to partisan groups in Italy and Yugoslavia.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Bill Bailey and catalogued by IBCC staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-01
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bailey, HH
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GR: Right. This is Gary Rushbrook with Warrant Officer Bill Bailey on the 1st of May and we are at Bill’s house near Nottingham and I’ll hand you over to Bill who will tell us a little bit about his early life.
HHB: Right. Well, I was born in Stafford in 1925. 21st of January. And er we moved around different houses there.
GR: Brothers and sisters?
HHB: I had a brother. He was three years older than me. Mum and dad were, father was in the First World War but he came through it all right.
GR: Yeah. What was he in? Was he in the army?
HHB: He was in the royal artillery, yes.
GR: Royal artillery. Yeah.
HHB: And so I went to school there but unfortunately when I was about six or seven mother and father split up so just left there me, my dad and my brother and he worked at a local electricity works
GR: Right.
HHB: Doing general maintenance work, I think. Anyway, when I got to about nine he got offered a job and a house in Stoke on Trent. Shelton, Stoke on Trent so we moved there, and he went to do metre reading so of course I went to school then at Cauldon Road School in, in Shelton till I was just over fourteen. Course being fourteen in the January just over the Christmas period I had to go to the Easter to leave. So, whenever I was off school I always used to go back to Stafford to an aunt and uncle of mine. So, when they knew I was leaving school, unbeknown to me, they applied for a job at the Stafford Post Office as a telegram boy and the next thing I know was I got a letter, ‘You’re starting work on Monday.’ I left on the Friday and started work on Monday at Stafford, you know, as a telegram boy. I’d not even had an interview so I wonder -
GR: So you had two days at the weekend from school to going to work.
HHB: Yeah. I think there was a bit of something going there ‘cause I’d got an uncle who worked there at the Stafford Post Office. He was a supervisor there so I don’t know whether he pulled any strings. I don’t know but I never had an interview. So on the day I had to report I reported there and I saw the head postmaster. I think his name was Adams. Had a chat and out I went to, in to a room where all the other telegram boys were. They were five of us and our names all began with B. Bailey, Buckshaw, Buck, Beaver and Blakeman all began with B and of course the five Bees. So anyway I went out with one of the boys to get the hang of what you did and then I had to go and report to be measured for a uniform which was a few weeks coming but anyway eventually I got that. And so I stayed there until I was about just over sixteen, seventeen and then I got the option then of either going in to the, as a postman, the postal side or the engineering side.
GR: I presume war had already broken out by then.
HHB: Yeah, war had broke out -
GR: Yeah,
HHB: September 3rd. Yes. I’d been at work since April. So, yeah so I was there as I say seventeen and then I went on the telecoms side, Post Office telephones, as an apprentice, two year apprentice. So, of course time went on. It was five year, five year apprentice sorry. I er of course by this time all my friends who had gone on the postal side had been called up. Unfortunately, or fortunately whichever the case you look at it I was classed as a reserved occupation. Course with telecoms which in them days was probably more important than what it is now.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Anyway, I did one or two courses. Went to in Birmingham and that was there once when they had a bit of a raid. Fortunately, it wasn’t in the part I was on. And I got a bit, thought I wish I’d, wanted to join the air force when I left school. I remember the woodwork teacher saying what are you going to do? I said I’d like to go in the air force and that was in 1939. Anyway, so I saw this advert in the paper air gunners said they wanted. It was only a very little slip so I cut it out, didn’t tell anybody, filled it in and posted it off. Course I was still living with my aunt and uncle then in Stafford and, and out of the blue I get a letter back to go to Birmingham Air Crew Attestation Centre, ACAC, on such and such a date for three or four days for interview and tests.
GR: So, you actually filled in a form that was in the paper.
HHB: Yeah. Yeah.
GR: To join up.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: Incredible.
HHB: It was only a little thing.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: A big, “Join the Air Force” and this little thing. Anyway, I went there and we had various tests, eye tests.
GR: I’m just going to pause it for one minute.
HHB: Yeah. Right. So I went to the Air Crew Attestation Centre at Birmingham and had fitness tests and general knowledge test and eyesight test and goodness knows what and then I had to [parade eventually in front of I don’t know what rank they were now, got quite a number of rings on their sleeves, ‘Why do you want to be an air gunner?’ Blah blah. ‘I don’t know why. Because I want to be,’ you know. ‘What’s your parents say?’ Well I hadn’t told my dad. I hadn’t told my auntie. So I said, ‘Well they don’t mind.’ ‘What about your employer?’ That was the post office telephones. ‘Have you asked permission?’ I said ahem, ‘Yes.’ I hadn’t.
GR: You hadn’t.
HHB: So they said, ‘Right.’ So they’d got some model aeroplanes on the table. ‘What’s that?’ ‘A Blenheim.’ ‘What’s that?’ ‘A Wellington.’ ‘What’s that?’ ‘Junkers 88.’ ‘You know your airplanes don’t you?’ Anyway, I, that was more or less it. Off I went. Later on they called us all in, called the names out you’ve been accepted. You’ll be hearing from us. So of course I went back to work at Stafford in Telecoms and I got a letter from them, ‘We haven’t received a letter from your employer giving you permission.’ So I wrote back and said, ‘It hasn’t come back yet.’ Anyway, they must have got fed up with this because they wrote to the area manager at Stoke on Trent and I got instructions to go to Stoke to see the area manager. So I walked in, I forget his, Sefton I think his name was. I walked in and, ‘Oh yes, Bailey. You’ve applied to join the air force.’ ‘Yes sir.’ ‘You didn’t ask me if you could go.’ ‘No sir.’ Oh well. Anyway, had a general natter. He said, ‘Alright, well I’ll let you go. I’ll write to them and say you can go.’ About a fortnight after that I got my call up papers.
GR: Right.
HHB: October and off I went down to the usual place, Lords Cricket Ground.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Found my way across London. I’d never been to London before at eighteen and a bit, just over eighteen years old, you know. Anyway, I got to lords cricket ground and we all formed up. ‘Right, in here.’ We went in a long room which everybody else must have done as well.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Drop your trousers. Well people, well, I forgot to say I’d been in the Home Guard for a while. I was underage but of course the captain wanted, the lieutenant wanted to get enough recruits to make him captain he let me go in, you know.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Anyway, I’d been used to all this sort of thing, you know when we went on camp. So of course I dropped my trousers, ‘C’mon drop your trousers’ and then of course the MO came along with his stick. Right, everybody, ‘Alright off you can go.’ So I walked out then and then they called out names and we were billeted in blocks in St Johns Wood. Blocks of flats. And we was there a fortnight and we had general tests again. I had two teeth out but they wouldn’t let you fly, they said with filled teeth.
GR: With fillings in your teeth.
HHB: With filling yeah so I sat in this chair and put my head back and getting ready to shout and this lovely blond face came over. She said. ‘It’ll be alright.’ Well, I couldn’t shout out then could I but anyway I had that out and that was it. I then waited. We were going to Bridlington to ITW of course so we went up to ITW and we was there for six weeks.
GR: That’s initial training isn’t it?
HHB: Yeah.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: While we was there they decided that people who were higher qualified in the course would go straight to Dalcross Gunnery School instead of going to Elementary Gunner School at, was it Cosford? So, many of us went straight up to AGS Air Gunnery School at Dalcross, outside Inverness, for a three month course. So, by the time I got there it was just before Christmas, I think. Anyway, we went there and did the usual training on Ansons like we all did, you know, shooting and all the rest of it and it was quite a, I earned a bob or two there because we used to do skeet shooting. Clay, clay shooting -
GR: Yeah. Clay pigeon shooting.
HHB: We always used to put a bob in and I was quite good at it. I don’t know why but I was so I always used to earn a bob or two.
1049
GR: A little bit extra.
HHB: I got friendly with a WREN there and used to go to Inverness to see her and one day I saw the gunnery instructor there. So, the next day at lectures he was saying, ‘And don’t get sitting in the YM looking all dewey eyed at the girl with you,’ he said. ‘You need to be air gunners.’ Knowing that he meant me. Anyway, I passed out the course and went on leave. I got a telegram, ‘Report back.’ Went back. Being sent overseas. Oh God.
GR: Straight away.
HHB: Yeah. So what I got I got kitted out. I got a fortnight’s leave and the day after had to report to 5 PDC, Personnel Despatch Centre at Blackpool up there. You were just hanging about till I got the boat out from Liverpool. Didn’t know where we was going although the rumour was Cairo. We set off on this boat and found that we found out we were being sent out to the Middle East. Cairo. Got to Cairo. Landed at Port at Suez and was there for two or three days in tents and that was an experience because the people who’d been in these tents before us had been a load of Indian troops and their health habits weren’t very good. So we had quite a few -
GR: I can imagine.
HHB: In the sand.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Course we were only sleeping on sand on ground sheet. Anyway, eventually we all eventually got sent up to Cairo.
GR: Did you have any inclination, ‘cause obviously you’d joined you were an air gunner.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: And obviously the natural progression would have been Bomber Command in England did you have any idea where you were going or -
HHB: No. No.
GR: What was going to happen to you?
HHB: No.
GR: No.
HHB: We were sent from, we got off the boat at Suez. We went up to Cairo. That was another PDC and there we just milled around waiting to be posted to OTU and I was sent to 76 OTU in Palestine at Aqir which was training for bombers. So, I finished up there. So we got on the train from Cairo across the Sinai Desert up. That was a journey on its own as well and that’s where my [?] big things they were [?]and were always something difficult to pack.
GR: Right.
HHB: So I said I’m fed up with this blooming thing. So, somebody said, ‘Don’t you want it.’ ‘Not really.’ The next minute it went out the window. It’s in the middle of the Sinai Desert somewhere. Anyway, we carried up to Palestine and we were in a PDC there and it was from there we sent to Aqir and there we got crewed up. Just went out one day. We didn’t have a hangar to go in. Just [parade] milled around the parade ground, get crewed up, you know. So I didn’t know what to do and all of a sudden this chap comes to me, ‘Have you got a crew?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Come on then I’ve got one, I’m a pilot’ So, we went and he was a South African Van der [Valt]. So we had a chat and he said, ‘Do you want to come, join me?’ So that’s how I joined him and then we got a navigator, bomb aimer and what have you and that was it. We started to fly doing our training but also flying on Wellingtons, you know.
GR: Right.
HHB: And that was interesting. Of course I flew Wellingtons of course we just had one that was going on a six or seven hour cross country flight and we’d only be air borne about forty minutes. I’m sitting in the rear turret and I thought, ‘Am I seeing things?’ Sparks come by and then bits of something was flying by, rings and pieces. I said, ‘Is the port engine alright skip?’ He said, ‘We’re just looking at it.’ I said, ‘Well it looks like it falling to pieces. There’s bits flying off it.’ So we feathered it and we had to turn back so but by then the starboard engine started perform so we decided to land at Lydda. So we called up, got clearance to land, coming in it was a Liberator, heavy con unit [ydda was and this Liberator was cutting out so we had to stagger around in the air on this one good engine. Well this happened twice.
GR: God.
HHB: And the third time, the second time of course, the engine, the starboard engine just packed up so we finished up in a big heap on the desert.
GR: Crash landed.
HHB: Crash landed but fortunately we was alright except the wireless operator. A chap named [Stoner] The wireless operator’s table with his equipment on it collapsed and he’d broken his leg so we lost, lost him but there was another one there without a crew so we got him. Chap named Shelby from Halifax. So we went, the MO called us in. He said, ‘Everybody alright? Anyone banged their head?’ Well I had but I didn’t say yes. So he said, ‘Alright then. Off you go then.’ So that was it.
GR: That was it.
HHB: That was it and the next, that night we were flying again on a night trip.
GR: On Wellingtons again.
HHB: On Wellingtons again.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Again.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Yeah. The story is that that Wellington that we crashed in had just come back from a seven hundred hour inspection. Major inspection. So somebody had slipped up there.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Anyway, we staggered on through that and then we got leave in, well we went to Alexandria because I was friendly with a chap named Pearson and he was engaged to a girl in, she was a South African girl but living in Egypt and we went to their house and billeted there for our leave and then we came back again and then we were sent down to [Aberswayo] which was a con unit, heavy con unit for Liberators. So we did about a month course there and of course with being a South African crew half the crew were South African. The pilot, navigator and flight engineer were South Africans. We hadn’t got a beam gunner then. And the rest of the crew, bomb aimer, two gunners and a wireless operator were RAF. Anyway, we got sent to South African Air Force base depot at [El Marsi] just outside Cairo and there we stopped there then waiting for a posting to a squadron which eventually came about the end of September time and sometime in September 1944 and bundled on to a Dakota as far as to about Tunis and then we got American Air Force Commando aircraft flying across to Bari and from Bari we went to what they called the advanced SAF base depot at Bari waiting to be posted to a squadron.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And about October time, beginning of October time, we went to 31 SAF squadron based at Fuji, well [Saloni] just outside Foggia, and that’s where we started to fly our ops.
GR: Yeah. How many was on the Liberator? What was the full –
HHB: There was eight crew. There was -
GR: Eight crew.
HHB: Pilot, flight engineer and navigator, mid upper gunner, rear gunner, bomb aimer, beam gunner.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: So, but we didn’t get the beam gunner till we got to the squadron.
GR: Right.
HHB: And all of a sudden this young lad, forget his name now, it’s in the logbook, he rolled up. He was a warrant officer and the South Africans when they were posted to a squadron they were immediately made up to warrant officers.
GR: Right. So were you all flight sergeants at the time.
HHB: Sergeants then, we were.
GR: Sergeants.
HHB: And he come straight from gunnery school as a, they didn’t even go through OTU and con unit. So, anyway, he was a warrant officer so there we were with this, but we started flying various ops, you know. Various supply drops, bombing raids.
GR: What was your first operation Bill?
HHB: Do you want to look at the logbook.
GR: Yeah I’ll just pause it for a sec.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: So we’re just having a look at Bill’s logbook and yeah your first operation, I’m just looking there, 14th November.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: 1944 yeah. Supply drop to Yugoslavia. What was that like? I mean -
HHB: Well, you know, we was all a bit, the skip had already done his second pilot trip to know what was what, like. Yeah.
GR: Yeah. So, yeah, just looking at the logbook. Yeah, and the first, the first one was a supply drop. Did you know it was a supply drop or did you think -
HHB: Oh yes we’d got supplies in the big canisters in the fuselage.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And we were looking for a, I haven’t got it there but we had a certain area to go to and look for the area to go to and look for this, perhaps a cross or a triangle or something in flames or lights on the ground.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And then they’d signal us you know somewhere to drop. They were dropped by parachute, you know
GR: Yes.
HHB: And er yes that was, that was the first one. They’d break us in gently you see.
GR: Yes.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: And just looking at the logbook. Yeah, there was a couple of supply drops.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: And then the, I think your third operation.
HHB: Yeah. Bombing.
GR: Was bombing some German troop concentrations. So that was the first bombing run.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: So what was that like, Bill?
HHB: Well it was, it’s a long time ago now.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: It was just another trip like, you know.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Nothing much exciting happened on it. This one to [Sarajevo].
GR: Yeah. So -
HHB: So that was, that was, bomb doors froze up so we couldn’t drop the bombs.
GR: So the bomb doors froze -
HHB: Yeah, we was.
GR: Closed.
HHB: Twenty thousand feet, you see.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And yeah, they froze up. So, we had to drop the bombs, come down and drop the bombs in the sea as I say.
GR: And return to base.
HHB: Jettison in the sea [heavy light flak and that at Sarajevo]
GR: Flak. Yeah.
HHB: We went there in daytime as well with these.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: But most of the raids at this time were the first one was -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: A daylight one that one.
GR: So most of the operations were at night but then your first daylight operation 19th of November.
HHB: November.
GR: 1944.
HHB: Yeah. That was River Bridge in Yugoslavia.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: I think the Germans were retreating through Yugoslavia.
GR: Yes.
HHB: And they wanted this bridge cutting. I don’t know whether we hit it or not. I can’t remember now. Probably missed it. So, I carried on like this until I finished my tour which was just before VE day.
GR: And I think I’ve seen there’s a total, total -
HHB: Yeah.
GR: Of thirty -
HHB: Eight or nine or something
GR: Thirty seven operations. We’re just going back.
HHB: Yeah there’s one, no, should be this one here.
GR: Should be, should be here Bill. Thirty three. That’s March.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: And then, yeah, there’s one in April there.
HHB: Yeah. Thirty six, thirty seven. Oh it’s there thirty seven.
GR: Yeah. So your last operation was on the 5th of April.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: Yeah. Well your tour, it probably wasn’t the last operation by the squadron but certainly your tour -
HHB: Yeah. My tour, yeah.
GR: Which was thirty seven operations so I mean over those thirty seven operations any close calls or was it a relatively -
HHB: The usual. We got trapped in searchlights over the [Rhone] one day. A couple of fighters we saw and I’ve got it somewhere. Got it somewhere
HHB: Yeah.
GR: Couple, couple of fighters we saw -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: But we evaded them when we saw.
GR: Yeah. Did the squadron suffer many casualties while you were there?
HHB: No. No, not a lot.
GR: No.
HHB: No. Not a lot. We had one or two. They suffered a lot just before I joined them because they were on the Warsaw raid.
GR: Yes.
HHB: And they lost quite heavy then and then after that just before I joined them and this is why we went and then they sent aircraft up to drop supplies in Northern Italy to the Italian partisans and it was in the mountains and they’d got to get in to this valley to drop them. Of course if you dropped them too high they just floated away you see. You’d got to get down.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: A lot of these places were in valleys so you’d got to get down to about six or seven hundred feet just or to get just the height for the parachute to open.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Otherwise they floated away.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And when we got back they were in radio contact. When we got back they’d tell us whether it was a good drop or not. So they sent them to this Northern Italy and we lost six that night.
GR: God.
HHB: One has never been found. They found all the others crashed in the mountains but this one that’s never been found and one of the, the bomb aimer was a New Zealander and I had a letter from his, his daughter. She lives in, I can’t think off-hand. Anyway -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Anyway she [that was that] an advert anyone on 31 squadron, used to be a series on the television, comrades, old comrades to get in touch.
GR: Yeah. Yes.
HHB: And this one anyone on 31 SAF squadron so I rang it and it was her husband [and I know] cause he left, he was one of the crews that we’d gone to replace. He’d died just a week or so before us -
GR: You got there.
HHB: We got there. So [I’m still in touch?] every Christmas still get a card from her I send one to her you know but she had a plaque laid, made and laid in this village near where we were dropping the supplies.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And it’s mounted there in English and in Italian. The crews name and all the -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And he was, he was actually a New Zealander but her mother was English. She’d married, married him and she was born, she was, her mother was conceiving while he was on ops.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And he was killed before she was born.
GR: That’s right.
HHB: So that was why she was trying to find out anything about him.
GR: Trying to find anything about it all so -
HHB: So we didn’t, but um -
GR: When you were doing supply drops how many aircraft were flying in the squadron.
HHB: Well, there’d perhaps be -
GR: Roughly. You know, just -
HHB: Eight, ten.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: But there was a group you see. The whole group went.
GR: Ah.
HHB: It was 205 group.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And that was the heavy bomber squadron and that came all the way up through the desert.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And I’ve got a book there, “Bombers Over Sand and Snow”. It’s all about 205 group coming up from the start of the war up through Egypt and into Italy.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: So this was 37 squadron, 45 squadron. There was quite a group of -
GR: Yeah. So, 205 group.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: Would do.
HHB: But we were the only ones, on our squadron was 31 squadron South African and 34 South African. We were the only ones on that group with Liberators. The others were still on Wellingtons.
GR: Right.
HHB: But by January ‘45 they’d all converted to Liberators.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: But so on these trips sometimes there was Liberators and Wellingtons as well. Yeah. And also on the unit was an American squadron, whatever they called them, the fortresses.
GR: The B17s. Yeah the B17s. Flying Fortresses.
HHB: So [right Mick] so we er, but we had quite a lot of activity during the daytime. We were going up at night. Well, all we was landing on was pierced steel planking.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: For runways and as the weather deteriorated and in ’44, ‘45 at that time was the worst winter in living memory in Italy. Snow, rain, everywhere was muddied up. We wasn’t in, all we lived in was tents. We didn’t live in huts. It was tents. Eight man tents. But eventually a friend of mine, Shorty Pearson, we were both on the same squadron, we got a small two men tent which was better but there was no room in it.
GR: No.
HHB: I mean, we eventually to sleep on we were sleeping on the floor or on the ground sheets you know but eventually we got the bomb tails when the bombs came the tails were protected by a, they were like a small, looked like a stool about [eighteen] inches high.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And about a foot square.
GR: And that was protecting the fins on the bombs.
HHB: Protecting the fins, yeah. So we eventually collected enough of them to make a bed which only left a narrow gap in between but at least we was off the floor.
GR: Incredible.
HHB: So, but so -
GR: So -
HHB: What happened, what I was going to say was that in the January time we were starting the Americans didn’t want the Libs there cause they were breaking the runways up so we all had to move off to [Foggamin] to a concrete runway.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: The main airfield at Foggia. So after one raid I haven’t got it in my book but after one trip we had to land there and they picked us up in lorries and took us back to base
GR: Right.
HHB: And of course that was tough on the ground staff having to service the aircraft out, you know, there and all the equipment. Anyway, we managed for a few weeks and er, till the, till the place had dried out a bit you know and it was fit for us to, for the Liberator cause they were breaking up the runways.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And the perimeter track was all hard core. There was nothing permanent, you know.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And the conditions there were only two, three buildings on, on, on the squadron. Well there was four actually, buildings. One was the church which was wooden, one was the sergeant’s mess and the airmen’s mess, the officer’s mess and the ops room and one of the other farm buildings was used as a parachute section and that was it. The rest of us were all in, under canvas
HHB: Yeah.
GR: All through the winter.
GR: ‘Cause Foggia was a big base wasn’t it?
HHB: Yes, there was -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: In that area I think there was eight airfields around Foggia.
GR: Right.
HHB: And you’d be sitting there and you’d hear a boom and you’d see a big cloud and oh another Liberator crashed or gone up, you know. You heard a big bang. That was a Wellington, another Wellington gone up. Yeah. But of course we were losing a lot to accidents, you know.
GR: Yeah. Probably more to accidents than -
HHB: Probably.
GR: Yeah, than fighters and -
HHB: Anyway, thinking about the squadron you’d be lying there on your bed and also the Americans, the South Africans had army ranks they weren’t pilot officer and that they were second lieutenants, lieutenants, captains.
GR: Right.
HHB: And warrant officer. The station warrant officer was a sergeant major. He’d be out there and you’d hear, ‘Wakey wakey. Following crews. Ops room half an hour.’ Look at your watch, 5 o’clock.
GR: Oh.
HHB: Oh no. And you’d lie there hoping he didn’t call your name out and you’d hear him say Captain van der [Valt]. Oh God that’s us. Got to get up and so it was down to the ops room and while we were in the ops room and while we were in the ops room getting briefed and that the cooks would be getting a breakfast of sorts, you know.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Then we’d go and have breakfast and take off would be about two or three hours later, you know. Yeah used to lie there. The electricity supply was the [eight wire] all the way through the camp and we used to just wrap a piece around and take a lead to your place and try and hope it was waterproof. Half the time you know it would go on and go off of course, you know.
GR: What was the food supply like in Italy cause obviously back in England it was quite severe rationing.
HHB: Yeah well we was rationed there. I mean it was corned beef with everything.
GR: Oh right.
HHB: One day I went in the mess and this, ‘Oh fried fish.’ Opened it up. It was a piece of bully beef in batter.
GR: Bully beef in batter.
HHB: Yeah and the coffee, they had coffee but that was in a big urn and you -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Used to dip your mug in, you know.
GR: And drink it.
HHB: ‘Cause it was, what annoyed us with the Americans there they got a little portable generator. Every tent had got these little portable generator putt putts as they were called, they actually had one on the Liberator as alternative power supply. When they landed you switched it on, you know and this was so you got these on little stands and every tent had got one and they just used to start it up. Lights. Yeah.
GR: So definitely the RAF was
HHB: They got, they got –
GR: Poor relations to the Americans.
HHB: Yeah. They got, they got duck boards all over the place. Yeah. And they’d even got a cinema allowed us, certain nights, to go to the cinema but –
GR: Oh right.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: What happened at the end of tour? Did you stay in Italy or –
HHB: No. After the end of tour I got sent back up to Naples which was a closure of a PDC for despatching people.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And I got put on a ship back to Suez and on the way back VE day came in May so by the time I got to Cairo back to [El Marsa] again which was another Cairo air force dump it was VE night.
GR: VE night. Yeah.
HHB: And that night, that day, a lot of WAAFs had just arrived. The first big load of WAAFs to come out I think and they were in this camp as well but that was all [laughs] wired off you know and so it was about one hundred and twelve degrees there that night. Cor it was hot. Anyway, I stopped there for a while until I got my posting home. I suppose, of course I was young and they got me back to retrain me you see but they didn’t realise there was a class B man who was going to get released anyway.
GR: Right.
HHB: I didn’t know this. Anyway, I got home and went to Catterick, Catterick RAF camp and that was a despatch centre, you know. Went and had an interview
GR: Yeah.
HHF: And decided, they sent me to Cranwell on a signals course. Being telecoms I suppose they thought I’d know all about it you see.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
HHB: So I went there and just, can’t say that, we learned a lot about radio and all that and how to operate the VH direction finder. Anyway eventually got posted from there again, abroad. Up to Blackpool again 5 PDC and I flew out to India.
GR: Oh right.
HHB: In a Stirling.
GR: Out to India in a Stirling.
HHB: Yes. I’ve got it here.
GR: Was there any, had victory in Japan been achieved by then or -
HHB: No. Yes. Yes.
GR: Yes oh yes so there was no possibilities of them sending you out to the Far East.
HHB: [] sent to India. Stradishall to Castel Benito seven hours. Castel Benito to Cairo West, five hours. Cairo West to [?] or something, five hours.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Mayapur in India five hours. Mayapur to Pune four hours. Pune to [arro] something.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And then -
GR: And so a long trek to India.
HHB: Yes and I went right down there and eventually got down there and eventually were at a place called [Momatagama] in Ceylon.
GR: In Ceylon.
HHB: Just below Kandy. Actually it was Kandy airstrip. A little airstrip in the middle of nowhere.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And the radio set was a little TR9 which was something they had pre-war, you know. Anyway, and all they did there was sit in flying control and you’d open up 6 o’clock till two or two till six, you know.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And people would call up and, you know, planes would land, you know.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: At one time it was very busy when Kandy had been very busy when Kandy was the Headquarters for SEAC.
GR: Yes. South East Asia Command. Yes.
HHB: Yeah, but it was very quiet. There was, passed one aircraft a week sometimes. Lovely sitting there it was, doing nothing and then I got posted to a place called Mowathagama which was, this airstrip was called Mowathagama.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: I went from there to [Cowgla] so I flew down there in a little um Expediator.
GR: Oh right.
HHB: An American two engine -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Passenger plane. Twenty five, fifty minutes to [?], [?] to Mowathagama forty five minutes. To [Cowgla] and that was in Ceylon.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: I went there and got put on a Liberator direction finder and you’d sit there on the beach. Lovely sand. Blue, blue sea. Palm trees.
GR: Warm weather.
HHB: Ooh.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And somebody’d call up ‘bearing,’ so you’d give them a bearing, you know, and not very often. Only two or three times while I was there and so that was -
GR: Around about February ‘46.
HHB: No, I was there then.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Yeah. It was February.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: ‘46 I went there and I as I say sat on the beach doing nothing. Six till two, two till six. The early shift was long but that one wasn’t and when we wasn’t flying we used to go swimming. A load of, after the war the landmines, the mines they’d got, the sea mines, they took them and blew space in the rocks for swimming pool.
GR: Right.
HHB: So that was -
GR: Good use of the mines.
HHB: Yeah. Swimming up there. And so I was there until March and one day I got a call to go to the adjutant’s office. Knocked on the door and went in. ‘Ah yes.’ He said, ‘Your class B release has come through.’ Well that was the first I knew about it. So he said, ‘Do you want it? Go outside and think about it.’ So, went outside, shut the door, knocked the door and went in and said, ‘Yes.’ So, good, I came out on B but the best bit of it was coming home. I got about, the records for about twenty five other airmen. And he said, ‘Here you are. Look after these’ and you’ll be starting from wherever it was now going up to Pune eventually to fly back home from Pune.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And I got these records all the time, had to look after them, a pile -
GR: A great big pile of records.
HHB: A lot of these people I mean I was only twenty one then, you know these were time expired, been out there five years.
GR: Five years.
HHB: Yeah and one of them was a sergeant getting demobbed and he was most upset. Of course he’d got no family back home.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And he’d been in air force all his life and he was coming home. He was really upset he was but all the others, you know.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: They were looking forward to it so the last I saw of them we went to Hednesford. There we went through the demob thing and the suits and all.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Whatever you had. I had the sports jacket and flannels and mac and shoes and shirt and what have you and we got no money then but I found a postal order. I think it was for a pound that the unit had been on when I was in telecoms. Post office engineering sent to me in Italy so I went and cashed this thing so four or five of us went out that night on this pound and had a drink and it lasted -
GR: Out on the town with a pound.
HHB: Yeah. We drank, drank what we could out of it. I mean in them days six shilling for a pint.
GR: Yeah. Yeah.
HHB: So, the last I saw of them I jumped off the truck at Stafford station ‘cause that was the station they took us to. They went on the train and I picked my bags up and walked home. Course I lived in Stafford at the time.
GR: And that was it. You were out of the RAF.
HHB: Out the RAF. Yeah.
GR: When I came back I flew from Pune to Barakpur. Barakpur to [Shiboor, Shiboor] to Lydda, Palestine, Lydda
GR: Yeah.
HHB: To Castel where we crashed, Lydda. Lydda to Castel Benito.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Castel Benito to Waterbeach.
GR: Waterbeach.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: So coming home, a total of thirty one hours -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Flying time.
GR: Yeah, that was in a Liberator.
HHB: in a Liberator.
GR: And the flight engineer, I said to the flight, you know, I said I was on Libs, you know.
HHB: Oh he said do you want to test the undercarriage for me. Course when you went in a Lib the tricycle undercarriage always checked the nose wheel.
GR: Yes.
HHB: ;Cause it didn’t always lock in position. Had to go down and see a little red button there and he said, I said, ‘No, I’ve done it. I know what’s going to happen when I get down there and especially over these places, desert and that, that’ll be sand’ -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Sandpaper on your face. I said, ‘No. Thank you very much. I’m not doing that.’ That was another job for the air gunner by the way. When we came in to land in a Lib you always had to come out the turret because it was too heavy, the tricycle, the undercarriage would be up and down.
GR: Up and down yes.
HHB: It would hit the ground if you were in there so we had to come out of there to the beam position and that was our landing position.
GR: Landing position, yeah.
HHB: But when you landed you had to open the hatch and the pilot was on the port side. You had to get the Aldiss lamp and shine it up, ‘Up a bit. Hold it there,’ So he could see the edge of the perimeter track. Course the landing lights were shining too far in -
GR: Too far in front.
HHB: So you had to sit there with all the mud and muck coming into your face. Of course they were muddy, muddy ground.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Getting splattered yeah. You were dirty when you got out, you know. Yeah. And that was your job. You had to check the two red lugs come down on the undercarriage, you had to make sure -
GR: That they were down.
HHB: They were down and checked the front. I never did the one on ops but I couldn’t get down the bomb bay.
GR: No cause you’d be -
HHB: Cause with the kit on. The bomb bay was only about -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: [eighteen] inches wide, if that. I couldn’t get through them without taking your clothes off you know your harness, Mae West.
GR: Couldn’t’ do that.
HHB: And all that. Which you didn’t. So that was my time in the air force.
GR: Your time in the air force. What happened after the war? Did you -
HHB: I went back to Telecoms
GR: Yeah.
HHB: And I stopped there forty eight years.
GR: Forty eight years.
HHB: Forty eight years in total. I had forty six years as Post Office Telephones and two years as British Telecoms
GR: Two years as British Telecom. Yeah.
HHB: Yeah but by then it wasn’t the same. The spirit had gone out of it. I mean I’ve stood in manholes when I was a jointer before I got promotion and that, like this, water up to here holding the joint up in the air so it didn’t get wet.
GR: Can you imagine that now with health and safety?
HHB: I’ve worked, I’ve worked up poles you know trying to plumb cables up. I mean -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Now, they’ve got gas blow lamps but they, they were paraffin.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Or petrol and they’d go cold in the middle of wiping a joint the lamp would go out you know, especially if it was paraffin it would go cold. You’d have to chuck it down and get another one up, you know.
GR: Did you actually go back to exactly the same job that you’d left?
HHB: Yeah.
GR: Straight after the war. Yeah.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: So they, in theory your job was kept open. There was a vacancy there.
HHB: There was a lot of newcomers there that I didn’t know they were.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Ex-servicemen, they took a lot of ex-servicemen on. Well -
GR: Yeah.
HHB: Most of them were. Yes, I went back there and I stopped at Stafford for a while but by then I got in touch with my mother ‘cause she was in Nottingham.
GR: Right.
HHB: So, actually I got in touch with her during the war. Course she realised I would be going up and she made great efforts to locate us. Anyway, so I went back to Stafford. I came to Nottingham in ‘46 and stopped in Nottingham all the time. Started off as a cable jointer. Actually while I was in Italy I got a letter from the post office saying I’d been promoted to USW unestablished civil service, it was a civil service then. You got established.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: I’d done five year established I’d done five years, skilled workmen that was so of course when I came that was it so of course eventually over the years I eventually got promoted to assistant executive engineer and that was underground maintenance. A group of about eighty men.
GR: Did you see, obviously you said you saw your mum.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: After the war?
HHB: Yes. I saw her before the war.
GR: Yes. Did you see your dad after the war or -
HHB: Yeah, I saw my dad.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: He still lived in Stoke he did.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: He eventually got married again.
GR: Yeah. But you saw them both.
HHB: Yeah.
GR: So even though they were separated.
HHB: Yeah. Yeah.
GR: Oh that’s good.
HHB: My father died in 1962.
GR: Yeah.
HHB: My mother died 1992. Something like that.
GR: 1992 yeah. Oh that’s good.
HHB: So, that was it.
GR: Thank you Bill that was excellent. That was very, very interesting thank you.
HHB: We can nip down and have a pint now.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Bill Bailey
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Bailey was born in Stafford. After finishing school he went to work for the Post Office Telephones service as a telegram boy. He decided to join the Royal Air Force and began training as a rear gunner at RAF Dalcross. He joined 31 Squadron of 205 Group. He was then posted overseas to Egypt, Palestine and Italy. He and his crew undertook supply drops to Yugoslavia and to partisan groups in Italy.
Creator
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Gary Rushbrooke
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-01
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:48:23 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABaileyHH160501
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
South African Air Force
Conforms To
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Pending review
Spatial Coverage
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Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Sarajevo
Egypt
Egypt--Cairo
Great Britain
Italy
Italy--Bari
Italy--Foggia
North Africa
India
India--Pune
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
31 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
B-24
crash
crewing up
forced landing
ground personnel
Initial Training Wing
medical officer
memorial
military living conditions
Operational Training Unit
RAF Aqir
RAF Bridlington
RAF Dalcross
recruitment
Resistance
training
Wellington
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Spatial Coverage
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Italy--Foggia
Title
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Foggia [place]
Description
An account of the resource
This page is an entry point for a place. Please use the links below to see all relevant documents available in the Archive.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/434/7765/PGravinaL1701.2.jpg
14e6975acb33980d407424a0f774e091
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/434/7765/AGravinaL170824.1.mp3
a5b1fe9107899b6ba739c01f9d94c6d1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Gravina, Leonardo
Leonardo Gravina
L Gravina
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Leonardo Gravina who recollects his wartime experiences in the Puglia region.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-07-12
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Gravina, L
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Sono Francesca Campani e sto per intervistare Leonardo Gravina per l’archivio digitale dell’International Bomber Command Center. Siamo a Pisa, in [omitted]. È il 12 luglio 2017.
FC: Grazie Leonardo per aver concesso questa intervista. Allora, ehm, se a lei va bene io vorrei iniziare chiedendole cosa si ricorda, quali sono I suoi primi ricordi da piccolo, in che anno è nato, dove stava
LG: Ecco, io sono nato nell’agosto del 1937, quindi il periodo della guerra è iniziata nel ’41 se non ricordo, quindi ’41, già nel ’41 io avevo quattro anni, quello che ricordo che durante la guerra noi eravamo sfollati in campagna e quindi lì nel mio, nel mia fattoria c’era anche una scuola di pluriclasse dalla prima alla seconda alla terza alla quarta alla quinta elementare. E ricordo un particolare, che sarà stato nel ’42, nel ’43 quando già gli americano avevano occupato il meridione. Mentre io andavo a scuola, no?, questa scuola distante da casa mia due, trecento metri, vicino c’era un campo di aviazione di questi americani, un immenso campo di aviazione nella provincia di Foggia e mentre andavo a scuola questi aerei partivano per bombardare soprattutto nei Balcani, soprattutto verso la Romania, Ungheria in aiuto dei russi e al ritorno partivano alle otto di mattina questi super bombardieri, I famosi B29, e ritornavano alle due, alle tre del pomeriggio, quindi avevano cinque o sei ore di volo, e poi questi erano dei quadrimotori, le famose fortezze volanti americane, quando partivano erano tutti in formazione perfetta, c’era il caposquadriglia e tutti gli altri che lo seguivano in formazione. Quando ritornavano il pomeriggio, chi ritornava di qua, chi ritornava di là, insomma ritornavano al campo, perché il campo di aviazione era la nostra masseria, il campo di aviazione era distante in linea d’aria un paio di km, quindi si vedevano questi, e una scena tragica che ricordo con rammarico, molti di questi, molti?, parecchi di questi bombardieri cadevano addirittura a cinquecento metri dal campo di aviazione proprio, forse volavano bassi, non potevano lanciarsi con il paracadute, logicamente, perché volavano a altezza di duecento o trecento metri, e ricordo che un aereo è andato proprio con tutti i sette otto membri dell’equipaggio è precipitato a cinquecento metri dal campo proprio, è caduto in picchiata e si è incendiato e quei poveracci manco
FC: E lei era lì proprio a cinquecento metri a vedere tutta la scena?
LG: Ho visto questo immenso fuoco che si era, poi era d’estate, insomma, si vedeva una cosa. L’altro particolare che io ricordo da bambino, noi eravamo una casa padronale e poi c’erano dove c’erano I garzoni, allora una sera dopo cena vado dai questi garzoni, dai garzoni che stavano ballando, discutendo, eccetera, e cosa trovo? Trovo due tedeschi legati, ma legati dietro la schiena da questo garzone, questo garzone l’aveva legato insieme a un altro dipendente, perché I tedeschi avevano ammazzato il fratello, eccetera, e questi tedeschi erano prigionieri del famoso campo di aviazione, quindi di sera loro erano andati via dal campo per dire alla popolazione di scrivere in Germania che loro erano prigionieri quindi. Quello che mi ha impressionato, allora parliamo del ’43 più o meno, non avevo neanche sette anni, sei o sette anni, vedevo questi due tedeschi legati su un lettino come quello lì con le mani dietro con gli occhi sbarrati e madonna dove siamo capitati, non so se li avevano legati con il filo di ferro, insomma qualche cosa, qualche cosa di, e allora io piangendo andai da mia madre, salii gli scalini e salii da mia madre che disse ‘che c’è’ e gli racconti questo fatto, mia madre era una donna volitiva, lei voleva, una parentesi, che tutti I figli maschi studiassero, allora le raccontai il fatto, allora siccome c’era un fratello primogenito che io sono l’ultimo dei maschi, era in guerra e non sapeva neanche lei che fine avesse fatto insomma, allora mia madre scese giù da questi uomini incavolati e si fece sentire con veemenza, dice ‘questa non è vostra casa, questa è la casa nostra, voi siete dei dipendenti, fate quello che io vi dico.’ Mio padre era più tranquillo, mio padre era un agricoltore, non interveniva. Mia madre invece era bella, una donna forte, decisa. Mio padre era un agricoltore per tradizione e quindi era molto tollerante verso I dipendenti, verso I garzoni che li chiamiamo noi, io ricordo che mio padre in tutti quegli anni che mi ricordo non ha mai ripreso un garzone, non ha mai detto una parola di scortesia. Ogni anno veniva cambiato I garzoni, ma lui mai. Quindi a questo punto questi tedeschi, questi due tedeschi, sono finalmente liberati, allora per reazione questi tedeschi sono scappati, perché era di sera, erano venuti all’imbrunire poi era diventato sera che li avevano legati, poi qualche d’uno li ha aizzato I cani dietro e avevano sparato in aria e finì questa storia di questi due prigionieri tedeschi. Di tedeschi sono stati sempre dipinti secondo la guerra, durante la guerra, seconda guerra mondiale, come uomini duri, spietati, forti, ricordo un particolare quando Ciano dichiarò guerra alla Francia, quando la Francia era già in ginocchio, l’Italia come al solito partecipò sempre, sempre in soccorso del vincitore, quando la Francia aveva già perso la guerra con la Germania, convocò l’ambasciatore francese per la dichiarazione di guerra. L’ambasciatore disse ‘ve ne accorgerete anche voi, I tedeschi son gente dura’. Infatti dopo l’8 settembre l’abbiamo subito pure l’Italia. Non diciamo poi quello che [laughs] questi tedeschi hanno fatto in Russia che hanno ricambiato quando son venuti in Germania. L’altro particolare, ricordo dopo l’8 settembre quando ormai la casa Savoia un pò da vile ecco ha abbandonato il suo esercito e Badoglio disse sempre quelle cose ambigue ‘la guerra è finita però noi, voi potete sempre reagire se qualche d’uno vi attacca’. Io ho frequentato per quindici anni I piemontesi, è un popolo, il piemontese è un grande lavoratore, onesto, corretto, pieno di dignità, però ha una grande ambiguità, non ha mai quella chiarezza di rapporti semplici, io ero un funzionario della Fiat quindi so com’era, per dire la casa Savoia si è comportata proprio con questa mentalità, a parte che poi questi nostri generali, un altro particolare che io lessi, quando sempre l’8 settembre Roma non era ancora occupata dai tedeschi, era in quel periodo ambiguo, gli americani volevano liberare Roma facendo occupare l’aeroporto, allora venne prima da Algeri, prima che mandassero i paracadutisti all’aeroporto, questo generale, comandante di questo, si voleva rendere conto di come effettivamente stavano le cose, venne in Italia di notte trasportato attraverso una ambulanza, cose eccetera, venne ricevuto da questi grandi generali e il comandante in capo dell’esercito italiano disse, il generale americano disse ‘ma noi dobbiamo preparare’, e disse ‘ma no io domani non sono occupato, non posso’. ‘Ma come io son venuto da Algeri, ho rischiato la vita’ ‘no’ disse ‘io non sono occupato. Mia moglie deve fare il trasloco a Torino, e come faccio? Devo fare il trasloco a Torino’. L’altro particolare c’era questo dalla campagna poi siamo passati nel paese, perché la distanza tra la campagna e il paese era una ventina di km. Io sono nato a San Giovanni Rotondo, parliamo di San Giovanni Rotondo e la masseria di trovava dieci km da Foggia insomma. C’era questo, questi soldati sbandati ecco ritorniamo, tutti erano liberi non sapevano, ricordo che ce n’erano venti, trenta e non sapevano, chissà da quanti giorni non mangiavano, insomma, e mia madre da sempre quella energia che aveva, aveva organizzato insieme a altre donne del vicinato, delle fave secche con del lardo, del grasso, era una cosa che per loro era la fine del mondo quindi si rifocillarono e poi andarono via. L’altro particolare che ricordo sempre ritornando al paese è che c’era una colonna di soldati tedeschi che venivano, erano in ritirata dal 10 luglio, dall’invasione della Sicilia, e salivano verso il nord e si erano fermati anche a San Giovanni Rotondo, però tutti I loro automezzi, carroarmati, erano nascosti tra gli alberi, e ricordo un particolare di questo, un giovane soldato tedesco e io nato nel ’37 quindi dopo l’8 settembre avevo sei o sette anni ecco, non più di sette anni, allora questo soldato tedesco stava bevendo a una fontanella e disse non so quello dove sto, ma io sentì sempre curioso, disse ‘noi ci ritiriamo, ma Hitler ha preparato delle armi segrete, noi vinceremo ancora alla guerra’, fiducioso fino all’ultimo che loro avrebbero vinto ancora la guerra. Altri particolari, quando mio fratello ritornò dall’Algeria, prigioniero degli americani, come prigioniero è sempre stato trattato benissimo, lui raccontò che nello sbarco nel luglio del ’43 in Sicilia si trovava si era nascosto insieme ad altri soldati italiani, allora c’era Mussolini era ancora al potere, però gli americani sapevano che c’erano nascosti questi soldati in questo campo di grano appiattiti e ci sparavano addosso e quindi tu vedevi le pallottole, e ci raccontava. Poi ritornò a mia madre per molto che aveva fatto, non so se andò scalza al cimitero, qualche cosa del genere. Poi ecco un altri particolare, sempre quando stavamo in campagna, perché noi stavamo un pò in campagna e un pò, perché noi in campagna avevamo tutto, noi in campagna la guerra non l’abbiamo sofferta, noi avevamo pecore, maiali, conigli, polli, poi il grano per dire, noi coltivavamo cento ettari di terreno, i nostri cugini avevano uno dei più grossi mulini dove macinavano le cose eccetera, che poi ho saputo manomettevano pure il contatore perché la corrente non si poteva, le autorità cittadine lo sapevano e chiudevano un occhio, quindi noi problemi, sta a dimostrare che noi, la guerra per noi, la pace per noi è stata una tragedia [laughs] eh si! Perché è stata una tragedia? Perché durante la guerra il grano andava alle stelle, con la pace che cosa è successo, questo, questi immensi bastimenti americani che hanno inondato l’Europa di grano, affamato, tutta l’Europa era affamata, I figli erano I guerra, le campagne erano un pò abbandonate, eccetera, come con mo fratello, l’azienda la portava avanti l’altro fratello più piccolo, insomma, mio padre per tradizione lavoro manuale non ne ha mai fatti, lui dirigeva soltanto, fisicamente non era, quindi quando è successo la pace, l’Italia o l’Europa è stata invasa da questo grano americano dove questo grano, loro avevano dei terreni vergini perfettamente fertili non coltivati, l’Europa ha coltivato I terreni per migliaia di anni, è logico che si era impoverito il terreno, e se in Europa o in Italia una faceva venti quintali a ettari, in America quando ne facevano cinquanta era una miseria per loro. A parte che da dopo la guerra, si è incominciato a frazionare la proprietà sennò soprattutto al sud c’erano questi baroni, immensi, i quali non gliene fregava niente, scusate l’espressione, di quelli che lavorava lì, si accontentavano soltanto di ricevere per fare la bella vita. Nella città del sud c’è il palazzo del conte, il palazzo del duca, dei terreni non gliene importava, quindi poi è andato in miseria e l’ironia della sorte I primi a lasciare la campagna son stato i garzoni, dopo i garzoni li hanno seguiti i proprietari quindi questo è stato un pò la fine, la nostra masseria c’erano almeno quindici, venti famiglie, c’era anche la scuola, c’era la chiesa, quindi era una specie di paesotto. Io ricordo cinquanta, quando avevo quindici sedici anni erano rimaste due o tre famiglie proprio. Anche perché allora durante la guerra e prima della guerra una famiglia con sei o sette ettari poteva vivere, dei figli che andavano poi a garzone, allora si arrangiavano. Però dopo la guerra a questo punto si è dovuto lasciare tutto, le esigenze famigliari erano finiti, chi è andato in Francia, chi in Germania. Noi siamo andati a Torino [laughs], che è stata un pò la nostra fortuna. Altri ricordi…
FC: La interrompo un attimo
LG: Prego
FC: Lei prima parlava degli aerei americani che partivano per andare a bombardare sui Balcani, no?
LG: Si sui Balcani penso io
FC: Ma invece lei ha, è stato, cioè ha partecipato, cioè ha subito dei bombardamenti lei, era presente
LG: No, non personalmente. Perché il nostro paese, San Giovanni Rotondo, distava da Foggia parliamo in linea d’aerea trenta quaranta km, San Giovanni Rotondo è un paese situato su un promontorio, allora si pensava che mentre bombardavano Foggia venissero a bombardare anche a San Giovanni Rotondo, quindi tutta la popolazione era scappata dal paese ed era andata a vedere dal promontorio si vedeva Foggia sotto, come dire, una città in fiamme, perché poi gli americani usavano queste bombe incendiarie. Ma perché bombardavano? Mi son chiesto perché andavano a bombardare Foggia? Non era come Milano, Torino con le industrie, eccetera. Invece no Foggia era un importante nodo ferroviario e agricolo, era proprio il tavoliere delle Puglie, e quindi era proprio, bombardavano proprio nella stazione ferroviaria. Logicamente questi americani o inglesi, ma soprattuto gli americani cercavo di bombardare con precisione i punti dove erano più opportuno, ma gli inglesi bombardavano un pò indiscriminatamente. A questo punto, e quella volta che tutta la popolazione per paura che venissero a bombardare San Giovanni Rotondo, mio fratello che stava alle superiori, sapeva, non è possibile che vengano a bombardare un paese di questi, dove non c’è niente e quindi lui se ne stava tranquillo a casa, ma noi tutta la popolazione, e come uno, siamo andati proprio alla fine del paese, due o tre km, dove c’era proprio tutta la pianura della puglie, dove da lì si vedeva Foggia che una Foggia incendiata proprio, con le fiamme, di sera ancora proprio emergevano queste fiamme. Un altro particolare sempre nel ’42, ’43, mio padre era andato al consorzio agrario con il carretto per trovare della nafta per il trattore, perché anche quella era tutta razionata però per l’agricoltura si faceva una eccezione, e mentre stava a Foggia, fortunatamente non era vicino alla stazione, ma è venuto terrorizzato, dice ‘sono vivo per miracolo. Queste bombe con le cose’. Noi di San Giovanni Rotondo la guerra non l’abbiamo sofferta, soprattutto noi agricoltori, e mi ricordo un particolare che mia sorella per dire il particolare che mia sorella dava la farina a questa signora per avere in cambio dei fichi, ecco fino a che punto [laughs], fino a che punto di disponibilità noi avevamo. [laughs] Noi diciamo che il disagio è venuto dopo, dopo la guerra, allora il disagio è venuto con questa concorrenza del grano americano, perché questo grano americano non solo erano fertilissimo, le aziende americane, quando una azienda americana agricola ha cento ettari è una azienda piccolina, loro partono da settecento ottocento ettari a salire queste immense pianure, soprattutto nel Texas. In Puglia quando uno cinquanta, settanta, cento ettari già è il massimo allora. Ma io la stragrande, noi avevamo dei trattori, dei cavalli quindi per tenere, ma tutte le altre dieci quindici, non per fare un vanto, tutte le altre dieci quindici famiglie dovevano con sette otto dieci ettari, coltivavano dei fichi, coltivavano dei vigneti, perché avevano tempo, ma noi non avevano il tempo, noi coltivavamo soltanto il grano perché era facile seminare e anche facile raccogliere. Ma anche altri particolari non…
FC: Quindi lei prima parlava che a San Giovanni Rotondo la popolazione aveva paura che iniziassero i bombardamenti
LG: Ecco si l’ignoranza della cosa
FC: Ma erano stati costruiti dei rifugi che lei si ricordi?
LG: No, no
FC: Non era stato fatto nulla?
LG: No, no la città di San Giovanni Rotondo, ma neanche a Foggia avevano costruito dei rifugi. Secondo me questi rifugi venivano fatti, sono stati costruiti in queste grandi città, Napoli, Roma, ma anche Roma era dichiarata città aperta e se ha subito uno o due bombardamenti durante la guerra, ma dove erano pericolosi i bombardamenti erano Milano e Torino dove c’erano le industrie. A San Giovanni Rotondo no, poi negli anni ’43, ’44 Padre Pio, tutto si andava a pensare, ma la resistenza di Padre Pio, c’erano altre preoccupazioni allora. Dopo negli anni cinquanta è esploso tutti venivano a vedere il santo, i miracoli, eccetera, ecco. Tra parentesi parlando di Padre Pio un piccolo particolare, nel ’42, ’43 io avevo cinque anni, una cosa del genere, mia madre mi disse, dice ‘senti dobbiamo andare, non andare da nessuna parte che domattina dobbiamo andare a fare un servizio’. Va bene, e mi ha portato al convento di Padre Pio e allora era pomeriggio, o forse era mattina presto non ricordo bene, c’era questo frate Padre Pio che allora usciva davanti alla chiesa, allora c’era una piccola chiesa, allora io sentivo tutto e mia madre fa ‘Padre c’è questo bambino sempre indemoniato, è sempre in movimento, non si ferma mai, non è possibile, ho altri figli, ma così questo bambino’. Allora questo frate mi mette la mano sulla testa, lui mette la mano e io istintivamente mi abbasso, mi abbasso, e alla fine non mi son potuto più abbassare, ero così allora finalmente mette la mano sulla testa [laughs] e mi fa ‘è un bravo bambino’ ‘stia tranquilla Signora’. Per riconoscenza mia madre ha voluto fare un figlio sacerdote, per questo io a Firenze conosco quindi. Questi sono un pò di particolari della guerra ecco.
FC: Le faccio una domanda, ma in famiglia si parlava della guerra? Quale era il clima? Cosa dicevano I suoi genitori?
LG: No, ma c’era un clima di, come dire, aspettativa, c’era un clima che finisse, ecco questa era la speranza. Un pò, gli agricoltori durante il fascismo gli agricoltori erano un pò tutti di destra perché Mussolini li favoriva, li favoriva perché lui diceva che l’Italia doveva essere autarchica, che doveva essere indipendente e quindi l’agricoltura per il fascismo e quindi un pò tutti gli agricoltori tendevano per riconoscenza verso Mussolini, ma era come dire una tendenza interessata non convinta del fascismo, dice tu mi dai questo io ti ringrazio [laughs], col sennò del poi il fascismo poi alla fine insomma.
FC: E lei come bambino aveva, si ricorda se pensava qualcosa in particolare?
LG: No, io, mancava un giorno mancava un periodo di un garzoncello, perchè poi in quel periodo questi garzoncelli non è che si pagavano un granché, non è che noi li sfruttavamo, si pagava olio, grano, farina, alimenti, ecco, non è come oggi con i contributi, eccetera, insomma, allora quel giorno mancava questo garzoncello che portava queste mandrie di maiali e mia madre ha detto manca e vai tu. E ricordo un particolare che mentre io guardavo queste mandrie era agosto, quindi questi maiali mangiavano quelle spighe di grano che erano cadute e che riuscivano a mangiare. In Puglia ci sono questi trattori, questi lotti di campagna e io mentre guardavo questi maiali vidi passare una cosa eccezionale, una camionetta, una camionetta militare. Era sempre prima de 25 luglio, sempre quando noi eravamo alleati con i tedeschi. Vidi questa, non era una gip, era una classica camionetta tedesca, c’era l’autista davanti e due ufficiali dietro. Dovevano essere alti ufficiali. Beh quello che mi ha impressionato di questi ufficiali, io poi li guardai bene perché quando arrivarono alla mia altezza c’era, dovevano svoltare quindi sono andati a passo lento, quindi io li ho guardati bene quando sono passati di fronte a me, erano impassibili, erano delle statue, seduti dietro, impeccabili, in perfetta forma, con una tenuta militare perfetta, immobili, e non dicevano una parola né uno né l’altro. Qualche cosa che mi ha colpito. Ma noi immaginiamo degli ufficiali italiani, degli ufficiali americani, ma questi tedeschi che stavano lì impeccabili, fermi e così come se il mondo per loro esisteva soltanto per loro la guerra.
FC: E lei questo lo vedeva da bambino come una cosa positiva o negativa? Cioè era affascinato o era spaventato?
LG: No, non ero né affascinato né spaventato. Lì per lì non capii questo atteggiamento di questi tedeschi, anche perché non avevo una forma di paragone con vari soldati. Oggi posso capire I soldati italiani, gli ufficiali italiani, americani, francesi, uno sta dietro parla, fa, dice, insomma racconta qualche cosa, come va la guerra o della famiglia, qualche cosa dice, non è che uno sta delle ore così, loro stavano ore [laughs], ma I tedeschi erano fatti, erano fatti così perché poi lessi ultimamente di questo grande giornalista che non ricordo il nome, dice questi soldati tedeschi prigionieri, prigionieri in Francia dopo la fine della guerra che stanno riparando una strada, stavano riparando una strada dice ‘mi ha colpito questa serietà di questo popolo che costruirono questa strada con il massimo impegno, con il massimo, nessuno parlava, nessuno discuteva, tutti lavoravano, questo mi ha fatto paura, un popolo compatto, un popolo compatto’. Ritornando ai tedeschi se mi allargo un pò, nel 1914 un grande comunista tedesco disse ‘la Germania -quindi prima che scoppiasse la guerre- la Germania per dominare l’Europa non ha bisogno della guerra, è in grado di dominarla senza fare delle guerre’. Oggi dopo due guerre disastrose e soprattutto la seconda guerra, guerra mondiale, dove in Germania non c’era una casa in piedi, oggi la Germania domina l’Europa. Ma questo, io non mi meraviglio tanto del popolo tedesco, forse lo ammiro, no forse, io ammiro il popolo tedesco, non ammiro le atrocità che hanno fatto durante la guerra, perché solo i tedeschi potevano fare quello che hanno fatto nella Shoah e con gli ebrei, zingari, omosessuali, sei o sette milioni, solo loro potevano obbedire l’ordine, solo loro lo potevano fare. Ma già duemila anni fa Tacito diceva, criticava la corruzione e la verità dell’Impero romano e li contrapponeva all’integrità morale dei barbari germanici, l’integrità morale dei barbari germanici, queste sono, nel bene e nel male bisogna dire che I tedeschi sono grandi, ecco un grande popolo fa dei grandi errori, un piccolo popolo fa [laughs] che detto in parole povere.
FC: Le faccio qualche ultima domanda, lei se la ricorda la Liberazione? Finita la guerra cosa è cambiato? C’è stato un momento in cui ha capito…
LG: No, per noi no, sa perché? Noi la guerra partigiana, da noi la guerra partigiana non c’è stata, al sud non c’è stata. La guerra partigiana iniziò dalla Toscana a salire, perché gli americani arrivarono nel ’44 quindi non c’è stata questa, quindi abbiamo subito l’occupazione degli americani, subiti?, noi li abbiamo applauditi [laughs], li abbiamo applauditi gli americani che sono venuti a liberarci dal fascismo. Quello che c’è stato nell’Italia del nord e a Milano, eccetera, quella sì, ma noi al sud non c’è stata nessuna guerra partigiani perché i tedeschi erano già scappati.
FC: Quindi lei non si ricorda americani, inglesi? Di avere avuto a che fare?
LG: No, mi ricordo, ecco mi ricordo un particolare. C’era sempre un aviatore americano che veniva alla masseria nostra perché come ripeto il capo dell’aviazione era un, quindi noi questi americani andavano in giro, non è che andavano tutti i giorni, andavano a bombardare a rotazione. Questo soldato, questo aviatore americano mi aveva preso in simpatia, parliamo del ’44 quindi io avevo sette anni, quindi ogni volta che mi vedeva, io mi, siccome mi dava caramelle cose eccetera, io gli andavo incontro, gli facevo delle feste, lui mi buttava a calcioni, cose, eccetera, poi mi diceva ti porterò in America, ti porterò in America, e mia madre stava sempre attenta e diceva si, si, poi non venne più, sicuramente era stato abbattuto. Poi, e questo aviatore, questo pilota mi aveva regalato un casco da aviatore da ragazzo. Si vede che l’aveva fatto fare per me e tanto è vero che da bambino I miei amici mi chiamavano il pilota con questo casco da aviatore che era tutto in cuoio, bellissimo. [laughs] questi sono un pò di ricordi.
FC: E, quindi lei non ha avvertito tanto una differenza tra un prima e un dopo, se non
LG: Noi diciamo che prima della guerra gli agricoltori, come dicevo prima, erano una classe privilegiata, dopo la guerra, eh dopo la guerra, allora abbiamo visto la differenze, il mondo era cambiato, e allora abbiamo visto la differenza, allora gli operai non è che venivano più come dire assoldati in cambio di poco ecco diciamo. Dopo la guerra bisogna pagare i contributi, la pensione, eccetera, a questo punto l’agricoltura, l’agricoltura con il grano che si era abbassato logicamente non era più sostenibile tanto è vero che gli agricoltori, ma non solo in Italia ma in tutta Europa, tanto è vero che gli agricoltori sono andati letteralmente in miseria, quando negli anni cinquanta un ettaro costava dieci, dodici milioni, che era una cifra. Dopo non valeva niente, perché non producevano i soldi che uno aveva acquistato, quindi tutte le campagne, anche perché durante il fascismo come si sa l’Italia era un paese agricolo, noi eravamo un paese agricolo dove nell’agricoltura erano impigliati il trenta quaranta percento della popolazione, quando in un paese industrializzato oscilla tra l’uno e il due o percento. Il trenta quaranta percento, dopo siamo diventati con il miracolo economico siamo diventati industriali, la gente ha lasciato la campagna e sono andati a lavorare nelle industrie del nord. Questa è la verità.
FC: Ultimissima domanda, oggi dopo tutti questi anni lei cosa pensa della guerra? Della guerra mondiale e della guerra in generale.
LG: La guerra mondiale, tutte le guerre sono disastrose per un principio generale. Nelle guerre non ci sono né vinti né vincitori, alla fine ci sono sempre due perdenti. Se poi lo riduciamo nel piccolo quando uno litiga aspramente con un vicino, litiga aspramente con una persona sono due perdenti che ci rimettono alla fine tutti e due. Dice ma allora non bisogna mai entrare in guerra? No, allora facciamo le distinzioni. Moralmente è difficile distinguere tra guerra giusta e guerra ingiusta. E prendiamo queste guerre contro questi Isis di Mosul, Raqqa, eccetera dove questi mandano questi terresti per farsi saltare in tutta Europa. Ecco io dico, cavolo, questi qua mandano in giro questa gente qui e noi subiamo continuamente che vengono a minacciare che prima o poi sventolerà sul Vaticano la bandiera nera dell’Isis e noi stiamo qui, allora qui la guerra, allora uno deve scendere a questo punto, deve scendere in guerra per difendere i propri ideali, i propri diritti, per la sicurezza dei figli, deve difendere, non si può questo mondo essere, come dire, porgere sempre l’altra guancia, umanamente, ma anche la Chiesa a questo punto dice deve sempre subire, a questo punto c’è tutto un limite di sopportazione. Montanelli diceva, no Enzo Biagi diceva la persona più, ecco che è in tema, la persona più tranquilla, più pacifica, più mite che c’è a questo punto, quando subisce un’angheria, poi ne subisce un’altra, poi ne subisce un’altra, prima o poi si ribella e questo è la ribellione di un uomo mite, quindi una persona normale si ribella molto prima. E io ricordo un episodio, quando ero a Como e dirigevo questa esattoria in provincia di Como, c’era questo capo operaio che aveva preso di mira questo geometra che comandava. Questo operaio nel paese aveva visto questo geometra da ragazzino e quindi lui pensava che fosse sempre un ragazzino, quello era il geometra io l’aveva messo a comandare il cantiere, questo operaio gli diceva ‘tu non vali niente geometra, tu non conti niente, tu non fai così, tu non fai colà’, al che io dicevo ‘scusa Enrico ma tu non ti devi fare questo punto sempre trattare così da uno come questo’, ‘ma cosa vuoi, cosa non vuoi è uno fatto così’. Beh un bel giorno si è ribellato il geometra, ha detto che gliene ha dette, ‘tu se sei qui perché te lo dico io, altrimenti se io voglio da domani mattina tu andrai da un altro cantiere sennò rischi addirittura il licenziamento. E tu hai detto questo, questo e questo sopra di me e io ti ho sempre ascoltato e anche quando tu mi hai trattato male io ti ho difeso e tu mi hai sputato alle spalle, io ti ho difeso quando gli altri, tu eri in ginocchio e io non ne ho approfittato’. Ecco la guerra, però I tedeschi la guerra ce l’hanno nel sangue, I tedeschi la famosa cultura prussiana ce l’hanno nel sangue.
FC: E invece gli inglesi?
LG: Gli inglesi sono un popolo, come dire, in apparenza sono un popolo, come dire, debole, un popolo sempliciotto, un popolo da sottovalutare, e invece no quando combattono per le loro idee, come gli americani, quando combattono per le loro idee danno la loro vita per la comunità, hanno il senso della comunità, hanno il senso della libertà, anche perché loro la Magna Charta l’hanno avuta nel 1248, quindi loro la libertà ce l’hanno nel sangue. Cosa che hanno trasmesso indirettamente anche agli americani, perché la stessa lingua, la stessa cosa, loro ce l’hanno nel sangue.
FC: Quindi cosa pensa del fatto che hanno bombardato l’Italia durante la seconda guerra mondiale?
FC: Gli americani, ci sono due tipi di bombardamenti. I bombardamenti effettuati dagli inglesi e i bombardamenti effettuati dagli americani. Gli inglesi bombardavano indistintamente, non guardavano per dove, invece gli americani andavano a bombardare nei limiti del possibile cercavano di colpire l’obiettivo principale, invece loro, gli inglesi lo facevano proprio a livello terroristico, ma si può anche capire quando loro hanno subito tutti questi bombardamenti tra V1 e V2, e tutti questi bombardamenti, e quindi c’è stato un pò una rivincita, ma forse proprio era una specie di vendetta, come la vendetta di russi quando son venuti in Germania e hanno violentato due milioni di donne, vecchie e bambine, la moglie di Kolle è stata violentata che era una bambina di tredici anni da decine di soldati e poi questa bambina era caduta, l’hanno presa e l’hanno buttata in mezzo a una strada, poi si è suicidata. Invece gli americani no. Ecco però io non condivido questi bombardamenti indiscriminati e uno dei famosi bombardamenti indiscrinati che cosa sono successi quando sono andati a bombardare nel marzo, febbraio, marzo del ’45 a Dresda che era la Firenze del nord, come lei sa. Questa città non era stata mai bombardata, proprio in ricordo ella sua bellezza artistica. Un mese prima, perché a fine aprile Hitler si è suicidato. Se parliamo di marzo, no. [interruption]
FC: Riprendiamo dopo una interruzione.
LG: Partiamo da Dresda?
FC: Come vuole, diceva che è un peccato che un mese prima della fine della guerra
LG: Si uno o due mesi prima della guerra quando partirono dall’Inghilterra sette, ottocento bombardieri americani, eh inglesi, con queste bombe incendiarie. Tutti I pompieri della Germania sono accorsi a Dresda per spegnere l’incendio. Quando tutti I soccorritori erano su Dresda arrivarono ancora mille bombardieri americani e li intrappolarono tutti. Questa è stata proprio una, un crimine orrendo sia inglesi sia americani insomma, che senso ha colpire uomini, donne, bambini, già quelli avevano subito. Quando la Merkel dice ‘noi siamo usciti dall’inferno’ non dice una fesseria. Ed ecco il popolo inglese che a volte vive un pò fuori dalla realtà. E lo dimostra con questo esempio significativo quando morì questo comandante in capo di queste forze aeree che comandava I bombardamenti sulla Germania, si chiama sir Harris, quando è morto nel ’60, ’70 gli avevano fatto un monumento. Gli inglesi hanno avuto il coraggio di invitare le autorità tedesche ad assistere e questa inaugurazione a questo monumento. Vivete fuori dal mondo, non ho capito [laughs] lo chiamavano Harris il bombardiere, vivete fuori dal mondo. Ritornando ai bombardamenti, sempre parlando dei bombardamenti, gli americani invece sono un popolo molto pragmatico, pratico, realista, non vanno tanto pre, vanno al sodo, non vanno come noi italiani, napoletani, ecco no, vanno direttamente al sodo, mi diceva un colonnello che ho conosciuto a Napoli della NATO, dice ‘tu Leonardo non ti devi credere che I soldati americani fossero dei, -noi consideriamo che gli americani consideriamo dei fanciulloni, degli sciocconi-, loro hanno una disciplina militari peggio della disciplina tedesca’. Io bombardamenti sono stati indiscriminati insomma. Su Dresda è stato per me un delitto, fatto proprio a scopo di vendetta. Come il bombardamento di Hiroshima e Nagasaki. Lì ecco lo posso capire, il bombardamento atomico, perché gli americani loro, come dire, conteggiano tutto, tutte le spese, già loro fanno la prevenzione, loro avevano calcolato che già per invadere l’isola di Iwojima o di Okinawa, le prime isole giapponesi, territorio giapponese, isolette come poteva essere l’isola dell’Elba, gli americani hanno subito tredicimila morti e ventimila feriti. Ah dice cavolo dice ma noi per occupare una piccola isoletta tra morti e feriti arriviamo a quaranta mila, per occupare il territorio giapponese avevano calcolato che sarebbero morti da cinquecentomila a un milione di soldati americani e cinque milioni di giapponesi e quindi soltanto con questa bomba atomica l’imperatore perché I soldati volevano ancora combattere fino all’ultimo, I soldati non volevano, invece l’imperatore come diceva Montanelli che viveva tra le nuove le, lui sedeva in alto, dice l’imperatore quando parlò alla radio che registrò, nessuno aveva mai sentito la voce dell’imperatore, in Giappone era un dio vivente, e dice il nostro destino, destino di noi giapponesi è di salvare l0umanità e di salvare l’umanità e di chiedere la pace che la pace sia, quindi la sottopose questa resa come se loro con la resa avessero salvato il mondo [laughs]. I bombardamenti sono sempre stati, siamo sempre lì guerre giuste, guerre ingiuste. I bombardamenti giusti, bombardamenti. Io dico ci sono delle azioni in ognuno di noi, che ognuno di noi ha certi limiti di sopportabilità, certuni hanno dei limiti molto deboli, altri invece hanno dei limiti un pò più e ribelli, siamo fatti ecco, l’ultima cosa che posso dire. Io ero funzionario della Fiat a Torino, allora un sindacalista mi fece delle richieste sindacali. Tra queste richieste sindacali c’era che io come dirigente non dovevo guardare, la legge diceva che il dirigente non può controllare attraverso I vetri, attraverso le cose, dico guardi che io non controllo nessuno da questa vetrata perché se l’operaio o gli operai che sono nel reparto io non li vedo, se poi io devo uscire nel reparto per controllare se questi lavorano o meno quello è un mio diritto e lo posso fare, dico non lo metta perché sembra che io, ci siamo messi d’accordo, perché oltretutto se io mi metto in una stanza, per me è una, dirigere un reparto significa che il capo sta qui, gli impiegati stan qua e li dirigi, se a me mi metti in una stanza per me è una punizione. Questo mi fece una provocazione davanti a tutti gli altri operai, fa ‘ma se lei ha paura’, no dico ‘io non ho paura’, vuoi mettere questo e mettilo, come avevo previsto tre giorni e mi telefona il capo personale, ‘lei si è messo daccordo!’, ‘ma guardi che non mi sono messo d’accordo, assolutamente, per me mettere una stanza’, ‘no!’, gridava in un modo, dico vabbé, ma cose che non bisognava mai fare, ho detto ‘ma vada al diavolo’ e ho chiuso al telefono, ma non ha avuto il coraggio di dire mi hai mandato al diavolo, non ha avuto il coraggio di dire tu hai mandato al diavolo il capo del personale. Questa è stata la mia vita [laughs]
FC: Va bene, per me va bene. Grazie mille ancora.
LG: Per me a posto così.
FC: Va bene.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Leonardo Gravina
Description
An account of the resource
Leonardo Gravina describes his early life in the rural district of the Puglia region, near the towns of Foggia and S. Giovanni Rotondo. Remembers seeing formations of aircraft taking off and landing from an airfield nearby. Speaks with affection of an American pilot who gave him a flying helmet as a token of friendship. Mentions Padre Pio (then Saint Pio of Pietrelcina) and his gift of reading souls. Stresses how wartime life was comfortable, owing to high prices commanded by grain and the overall abundance of farm products. Recollects the strict discipline of German soldiers, mentions the 1943 Foggia bombings, and describes briefly the invasion of Sicily and the subsequent fall of the fascist regime. Emphasises the social transformations after war, when farming was no longer profitable, and mentions episodes of his later career in the manufacturing industry. Discusses the morality of strategic bombing, holding up Dresden as an unparalleled example. Mentions the different strategic approaches of Allied air forces and justifies them in terms of dissimilar national characters. Comments on the figure of Arthur Harris.
Creator
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Francesca Campani
Date
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2017-07-12
Contributor
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Greta Fedele
Format
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01:06:48 audio recording
Language
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ita
Type
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Sound
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AGravinaL170824
PGravinaL1701
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
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Italy
Italy--Foggia
Italy--San Giovanni Rotondo
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Temporal Coverage
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1943-09-08
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
childhood in wartime
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
home front
perception of bombing war
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/8359/PBrileyWG1502.2.jpg
88f12b161e5a47cf71c561733e1c9465
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/8359/ABrileyW150522.1.mp3
18e7d5718da098c6dae85ec69ead9533
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/8359/PBrileyWG1503.2.jpg
ccd30a6b9b18cea87c0269a963f6dc2b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Briley, William George
George Briley
W G Briley
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Briley, WG
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer William George Briley (1586825, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and a sight log book containing <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/987">18 target photographs</a>. After training in South Africa, George Briley completed 39 bombing and supply dropping operations as a navigator with 40 Squadron flying Wellingtons from Foggia in Italy. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by William George Briley and catalogued by Barry Hunter, <span>with additional identification provided by the Archeologi dell'Aria research group (</span><a href="https://www.archeologidellaria.org/">https://www.archeologidellaria.org</a><span>)</span>
Date
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2015-10-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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MJ: Now.
WB: My name is Warrant Officer Briley. I’m recording this for the International Bomber Command Centre on 22 May 19 - 2015. And we - where I am is at Ruskington in Lincolnshire. I’ll try and see if I can. Well, my first big run to get to a training place was down to South Africa where I stayed for five months and picked up my brevet. And then, where I, I came back down by flying boat which took four days from Durban to Cairo. From then onwards, I was doing all around that area until they had vacancies up on the training field where the temperature of 150 – 120 was very warm. Then we got back down to Cairo and for - picked up me flight to Italy where I went through Naples and out then to Foggia where I stayed with the 40 Squadron the whole time until I’d finished my term, and then I went back to Naples and they gave me a [unclear]. That gave me a lot more places and also I was sent up to Athens where I was a gunner on on private Wellingtons that had been stripped with passengers and freight all over the Middle East. Then then I was – land – I was - oh sorry. After we done all that I was land down – I was down on the ground there until they got me a job back on Egypt where they sent me up to Udine in northern Italy. No no way of getting up there, but I went out and a British army driver took me all the way, which was very good of him, and the little – when I got up there they hadn’t a clue what I was doing up there for, although they knew themselves, 39 Squadron it was and they gave me a leave over the weekend when I got there and there’s a chance I had of seeing and being in Venice in the holiday part of the RAF they had out there. We came back by a big – by a big plane from Bari having had a train journey all the way back. And that landed me on besides the besides the canal on the Suez Canal and from there we were doing I was doing quite a lot of driving which I wanted to do until they found a place for me which was in El Alamein[?] Back to Cairo and on to the flying the flying out to El Adam [?]. And I stayed here that’s where I picked up my WO. And I and I was put in charge, once I got away the driving they put me in charge of a sy – system well, well in in in an where the people going through and also the pilots and that. I had to, had to sign them through. Some didn’t want to do that and but then they had to. They got no signature otherwise. Anyway, from there that’s when I was sent – I was on leave then at the end and I made out. I picked up my brother who was in Cairo or rather he was up in – he was up in Palestine. Picked him up, we went to Haifa and stayed a fortnight. We enjoyed ourselves. I, I was lucky in that ‘cause I – that’s one brother. The other brother I picked up on the way in at Cairo. So I doubt if there were many other brothers who met du – met during the war. So [unclear] in the end it – we came by boat from Alexandria to Toulon. Waited there for the train back to England. And came – got back in June. One of the coldest Junes I think I knew at that time, especially when you’d been at a temperature of a hundred-and-twenty and that. Now the temperature here went across that boat was really ferocious. And then we was sent up to Wednesbury for discharge. They had to make a suit for me I was so ruddy small and out of all proportion and today I’m even worse. The trouble is I aint going in. I was dead on the lowest figure. When I was on the Foggia we took off from Foggia and went down the Corinth Canal or to it, where we had been told there was a big storm up. It’s too high to go over. Too low to go under. So we were given a height which was about the best. As we came into it. Here we go, the thing is we went up like a ruddy express [mumble] express lift, and stopped and went down straight away, and oh my head hit the blooming geodetics. It, it was so loud the pilot put - turned put it hard head round. He said: ‘What was that?’ I said ‘That was my flipping head.’ [Chuckles] It was yeah.
MJ: Yeah yeah.
WB: Yeah, we got through it and carried on. [Chuckle]
MJ: Well, well that’s the sort of thing –
WB: Yeah
MJ: - that you got to remember, you know.
WB: Hmm. [Chuckle].
MJ: What was it about the bridge?
WB: Eh?
MJ: That one about the bridge? You said about the [unclear]. Can you repeat that?
WB: Yes.
MJ: Please.
WB: [Sigh] [Background noise] I done that one.
MJ: So, so what was the story about that one?
WB: No, it’s not. It’s this one. The one with the four-thousand pound bomb. Kitzscher [?] And – our – well I was quite, quite surprised, you know, you see, where this bomb was. It was only a big hole that was there and they – one of the Italians came about and said ‘What you looking at it for?’ I said ‘I got an idea that’s our bomb.’ ‘Oh,’ he said – he said ‘What has happened?’ He said ’There were two trains on that bridge when you dropped it.’ He said ’One of them went into it to– [unclear] into reinforcements and one coming out. He said: ‘The one coming out got the bar –part of it. The whole the back of [unclear] train and that other one run into the hole that was there. [Chuckle] He says: ‘So you done a damn good job.’ [Laughter]. I’ve never been seen anybody about that - the crew I could tell to.
MJ: Well that’s -
WB: Yeah.
MJ: That’s the good part about it.
WB: Apparently in the Blitz –
MJ: Yeah.
WB: The eight months Blitz. Every night. [Chuckle]. And, it’s so much so I managed to get it out of – but other people commanding me. ‘I can’t go on the back of this bike.’ I said ‘Why not?’ He said ‘Well, I’m out in the open.’ I should have sat on mine all the time. [Chuckle] Any rate, in the end, a number of them complained about it and but, they were more or less protecting me. [Laugh]. I can see their point and any way, they said – they asked me whether I’d like to learn how to drive. I said ‘I would very much.’ And so they brought a driver in from a local gas company depot and he said ‘Now, let’s see. What do you wanna learn?’ I said: ‘Anything I can drive. I was able to – so lorries and that.’ ‘Ah, so you want double declutching.’ You know to this day, and that was in the war. To this day, I still use, I didn’t realise it, part of the double declutching.
MJ: Hm.
WB: Right the way through, and it was only my sister who told me that my changing up and changing down and that was smooth, and I can’t see how it – how it can be smooth? And I worked it out. The – I wasn’t doing the whole double declutching, what I was doing – now with double declutching you use your feet as well. That’s all I wasn’t doing. [Mumble] Step in here.
MJ: Here. It’s good. What – what –
WB: What?
MJ: What – what sort of ops and things did you actually stand out for one reason of another?
WB: What you want me to do?
MJ: I’m here.
WB: Supplied it and then I went and got – I went there to be of service there. [Laughter]. All on one aerodrome. We called it Kalamaki Avenue[?]. It was –
MJ: So – what ‘s that bit of paper?
WB: Yeah. [Unclear]. Can’t hardly read it now. [Unclear] Penetration. Frontal conditions. Last night your bombers carried out their mission with excellent results. This attack which – which you carried out [unclear] or in the port of crews participated. Please convey to all ranks under your command my opposition – appreciation of this noteworthy effort. That was from the Group Captain commanding 263 Wing.
MJ: What did you have to do in that?
WB: Hm?
MJ: What what what was the op? Operation? What operation – what?
WB: Oh these aerodromes.
MJ: You say you had to bomb them? Or –
WB: No, it – thing is they were all bombed on one night by different – they sent out the squadron. Three or four to one – three or four to [unclear].
MJ:
WB: I don’t think that was the one that hit me on the head. I hadn’t been given my flight badge then. I was just a Sergeant. [Pause]. 9th to the 10th of October 1944 [turning of pages] 9 10 of October –
MJ: What was that op?
WB: Hm.
MJ: What did you have to do for that one?
WB: [Pause] On the – on the 4th – 4th of October ’44 we went to the Danube and put a mine – two mines down there. Have having had to fly there at thirty foot and then there was a a – I think there was haystacks even higher than we were. So I was expecting anytime that we – that we should get a gun from behind them. Then the next one we went on the 9th we went to Athens, we did that and they were put for us they were pretty long trips. Athens six hours and the Danube was five fifty-one.
MJ: So what – why did you that one to similar to the Dam Busters one. Why?
WB: It was the [unclear] valley. There’s the valley. South, it was south of one of their big cities. I forget which one it was. Began with a B, I know that. [Laughter].
MJ: So what did you have to do that made it similar to the other dams? Did you have to go lower or was it just too hot or what?
WB: While we kept low was to get underneath their mining thing and also we were down there so as we could get in underneath it and without them noticing it, and we didn’t – did manage it seems ‘cause nobody came to try and have a go at us. Then five days later we went over there again. Not this to the Danube which was up south of a – a big city beginning with B, I think it was. And this this second one, our eleventh was on Kalamaki operation bombed over flares. So we had two long ones. [Pause] I know that we bombed one of the American bombings. They gave us a photo of what they had left. When we got there it hadn’t even been touched. So we had to do all the bombing for them. That’s the Americans all along, which I never did quite like.
MJ: [Unclear]
WB: [Unclear]. More modern, modern aircraft and that. I mean the Wellington was a pre-war, but we had it all the way through the war out there.
MJ: So did you fly different aircraft more often or just one particular one? ‘Cause you got –
WB: You could hardly see the blinder[?]. All I know is it was going off track and I couldn’t I couldn’t get the thing to go in at all. In the end, when he when he went ran out of [unclear] I expect and well that’s that. He said ‘[Unclear] Which way you going? I said ‘No, you’re too late to go the back.’ I said ‘So turn on and face, face Yugoslavia.’ And I said ‘When you get - as soon as you’ve seen the mountains over there, turn south. Don’t wait for me.’ I said ‘Then we’ll sort – start sorting out some.’ Anyway I got ‘em back in.
MJ: So what happened when you got to base then?
WB: Then – then I was a bit late when I got, of course, when we got in. But after that on three occasions I got them to go another route because there was a blooming eight-hundred – and sent us out on our own valley, there was a hill eight-hundred foot high and quite often the clouds comes came down so they forced them under the thousand so I sort of – ‘What’s the matter Briley?’ I said : ‘There’s a hill in that valley eight hundred foot.’ Said ‘Yeah.’ So he turned round to his thing[?]and said ‘Go and see if he’s right.’ The bloke said when he came back he said : ‘He’s right.’ ‘Oh, sent him round the end of the peninsula.’ That happened three times. I had to – ‘cause I knew where it was. I was coming in through the valley at two-thousand in the cloud dived down at the end where I knew it’d be.’ ‘Didn’t you – didn’t you see the target?’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘Well how come you came back here half-hour before any others [unclear]. I said ‘’Cause I used the valley.’ ‘But you told us.’ ‘But yeah I know where it is.’
MJ: So you took a short cut?
WB: Yep. You see the second time he was sending me down for – I I didn’t do much on that. I knew it – I knew how it was. So so we had a look down at it and found this thing this hill. ‘Right we can use that.’ I did on three occasions. Got back in. Nice time I was the only one on breakfast. [Chuckle]. Everybody else came in half-hour later. Every time ‘Missed it again.’ I said : ‘No we did not miss it.’ Berh, that was another bleeding officer and then, and I gather from one of our other, one of the crew I saw in Cairo. He said ‘You know what has happened up at up at - up at Foggia?’ I said ‘No.’ ‘ See they sent out those big aircraft, up our valley at a thousand feet.’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘Three crashed into that hill you told them about.’ I said ‘That’s bloody murder.’ And if I had my way I’d have had him but they took no notice of me, but it was them that - I mean the big aircraft, American aircraft has about twelve people on board. The Wellington only had five. You think it. Three aircraft. Thirty-six. Dead. Before they’d even started.
MJ: ‘Cause they took the wrong route.
WB: Yeah. I wish I could have done but you supposed to be a – on their side. [Laughter]. Yeah. And one or two people told me about it and I said that ‘I said I quite agree with ya. But we daren’t do it.’
MJ: Yeah.
WB: Whether they learned after that when they hit this hill there’s one way to find out. Not the [unclear] of the bleeding crew though.
MJ: Was there any more situations like that you had before? Was it a lot like that?
WB: Yeah well. This is how it is.
MJ: Yeah.
WB: Another time she came down to – oh blimey – begins will L.
MJ: Well –
WB: Yeah.
MJ: Yeah. Well anyway yeah.
WB: Yeah. Anyway, she came down there. I was [unclear] been on there a fortnight and she said ‘That comes off.’
MJ: So you had to lose your –
WB: So my mate said ‘Are you gonna?’ ‘No,’ I said ‘I’ve got home. I’ve worked it out. I want us to have three weeks to see what it’s like.’ Anyway, I didn’t get any in the end. Wasn’t for her, it was for myself. It itched though underneath. [Shudder].
MJ: Yeah I know.
WB: So I –
MJ: Yeah. Don’t go good with a uniform. So I put that on. Ok I’m gonna take a photo. You in 40 Squadron.
WB: That’s 40 Squadron in 3 Group with Wellingtons in 1940 or ‘41. Towards the end of ’41, 40 Squadron moved toward Malta. Moved to Egypt early in ’42 into 205 Group. Moving to North Africa and eventually to Italy. During – I joined 40 Squadron in Foggia Italy in August ’44. First flight 30th of August ’44 and first op 1st of September ’44. And last one 39, 21st of January 1945. Book says last, last 13th of March. Hmm, it’s wrong. Otherwise how was I doing it in ’45?
MJ: There’s there’s –
WB: It was a remake Manchester. Found that the Manchester were two Merlins was like the blooming Wellington Mark II was Merlins. They’re useless, so they took it back, extended the wing, put in two more engines and extended other things, call it the Lancaster, and it was a success. Makes you wonder doesn’t it?
MJ: It does yeah.
WB: I’m lying. I don’t think it’s been made public much ‘cause the Manchester was a dud.
MJ: Yeah.
WB: Hmm.
MJ: This is Michael Jeffery on behalf of the International Bomber Command Historical Project Unit. Thank you to William Briley for his recording.
WB: It won’t. Make it George, George Briley.
MJ: George Briley, it is.
WB: George, it’s what I’m known as. You’ll find on here that no one knows about a Duckworth[?]. It’s George everybody.
MJ: Well that’s good.
WB: Yeah.
MJ: Well, it’s very nice to meet you George. Thank you very much for you co-operation and your photographs and such like and I hope to meet you again. On behalf of the International Bomber Command, thank you again. On the 22nd of May 2015.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with William George Briley
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Mick Jeffery
Date
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2015-05-22
Format
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00:28:49 Audio recording
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Sound
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ABrileyW150522
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Pending review
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Temporal Coverage
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1944-10
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Gemma Clapton
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Description
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After training in South Africa, William Briley flew operations as a navigator with 40 Squadron flying Wellingtons from Foggia, Italy. One of his operations involved the dropping of a 4000lb bomb which derailed two trains. He was also involved in mine laying in the Danube.
Spatial Coverage
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Egypt
Greece
Italy
Italy
Danube River
South Africa
Greece--Zakynthos
Italy--Foggia
Greece--Corinth Canal
Danube River
40 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
mine laying
navigator
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/637/8907/PSeaggerA1612.1.jpg
e8d1c1c8d9913588e942d59defb32bda
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/637/8907/ASeaggerA160729.1.mp3
498806bf0218ec4587be49c6fe5b4a64
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Seagger, Alan
A Seagger
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Alan Seagger (1920 - 2019, 1186497 Royal Air Force). He served as ground personnel with 33 and 41 Squadrons in Italy, North Africa and the Middle East.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alan Seagger and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Additional identifications provided by Giusi Sartoris and the members of the 'Sei di foggia se' and 'Le grandi battaglie della storia' Facebook groups.
Date
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2016-07-25
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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HD: Helen Durham recording for the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive on Friday the 29th of July 2016 and the time is 10.15.
AS: Spot on.
HD: I’m here to interview Mr Alan Seagger from xxxx in Grimsby. Good morning.
AS: Good morning to you.
HD: Thank you so much for allowing us to come and interview.
AS: Yeah.
HD: First of all I’d like you just to tell me a little bit about what you did before the RAF.
AS: I was an apprentice in electrical. On, what shall we say? Really it would be not normal house wiring or anything like that? It was on heavy generators because everything or most things I should put in those days was DC direct debit — Direct Current as against what it is today which is a normal AC but yes I was apprenticed. I was getting a bit concerned what would happen to my apprenticeship when I left but fortunately it was covered alright and I was alright so. Then I got on draught to the place in — near Bedford where —
HD: This is when you joined the RAF.
AS: Yeah. That’s when I got my number and everything else and it was, it was quite a nice camp. Wasn’t there all that time. Got kitted out and all that sort of thing and then —
HD: And what year was this?
AS: ‘40. Probably. Yeah ’40. What are you shaking your head for?
HD: So you went to Bedford.
AS: Yeah
HD: And how long were you there for?
AS: Not very long but I couldn’t really tell you. Then we was told what they wanted us for which wasn’t in the electrical side of it. But still — I didn’t mind in the end because it was all, what shall we say, something that once I got used to it all I was quite happy. And then I went away on a course. I don’t know whether it was St Anne’s, St Athan’s or something like that. And then after that I was, I think I went home on a short leave and from the short leave I was posted to Binbrook. And —
HD: That was Binbrook in Lincolnshire.
AS: In Lincolnshire. Yeah. Which was a very strange posting at the time when I had to get out at a place called [pause] at a place called —? Was it Middle? What —?
HD: Right.
AS: Yeah. Something like that. What is it Beverley?
HD: Middle Rasen?
AS: What’s the two stops? There’s two. Little. Before you get to Lincoln.
BS: Middle Rasen. Market Rasen.
HD: Market Rasen. Yeah.
AS: Rasen.
HD: Yes. Right.
AS: And I had to get out there and I was very puzzled on how I got to the camp so the — I think he was probably the porter on the platform said, ‘Oh give them a ring. They’ll come and pick you up.’ And that was a journey from there to Binbrook. Why I couldn’t come all the way to Grimsby I don’t know. And I don’t think they knew it either at the time.
HD: No. And how long were you at Binbrook for?
AS: Oh [pause] Do you know I got posted abroad and that could be — what? The best part of a year I suppose? Might be a little bit longer. But in that time was a bit that I forgot to tell you about the other time. I was in a small party to go to [unclear] something like that. I’ve got it down here somewhere. [pause] Oh [unclear] anyway because there was two squadrons just arrived there and they’d got the same aircraft as I’d been on and we were to give them instruction on inspections and things like that. But the Poles, general notice they were Polish. Two squadrons. And I think off hand it was 300 and 301. I think that’s what it was. We were only there for a few days giving them general instruction. They were quite pleasant. Several of them spoke English and we came away back to camp and we carried on normal camp. I was there — there I should think about four days. Three or four days.
HD: Can you tell me a bit about your journey abroad? Where did you go?
AS: Where? What?
HD: About your journey abroad. Where? Where were you sent?
AS: Oh journey abroad. Yes. When we got posted abroad we had to go to Liverpool. And we got on a troop ship there called the Mooltan. Mooltan. Mooltan. And it was an Indian ship. Indian crew and everything. And we set off from Liverpool across the Atlantic towards America. Course we got in a big massive convoy. For protection for one thing. And then we travelled down the coast, the east coast of America until we were in line with that — and I still can’t remember the name but it was where this big disease was a little while ago. One of our nurses had to go —
HD: Sierra Leone? Sierra Leone.
AS: Yeah it was on the coast of Sierra Leone and we stayed there — I suppose a day. It might have been two days. Yeah. We came out of there, went down the coast of Africa, around the Cape until we got to Durban where we got off and we were camped on the racecourse there. We were there, oh, a couple of weeks probably and then we had instructions to go back to the docks —altogether like. And it was a lovely ship we saw there. We jokingly said to one another, ‘Cor it would be nice to go on that.’ And it was a Dutch liner that had just won the Blue Band of the Atlantic. And it was a gorgeous — it was a — the little I can say about it it was a ship inside a ship so you virtually — there was little or no getting seasick which I was all the way up the coast there to — that was the Indian Ocean into the Red Sea and into the Canal where we got off at the Canal end and we were on detail where we had to go. And we had to go to a camp called Shallufa which was in the Canal Zone. Course the Canal Zone was full of aerodromes when we got there but we went to Shallufa. I was at Shallufa a little while. Not long I don’t think. And that’s when, unfortunately when I got to Shallufa I should have been with 40 Squadron but I was taken out of that and put with 37 and I moved from Shallufa into Egypt itself which was [pause] I can’t think of the name of the camp at the moment. Anyway, that’s where I joined up with the new squadron and, and —
HD: What was it like being in Egypt at that time?
AS: Nothing but really if you like to look at it in that sense — troops. There was plenty of them. The Indian, New Zealand, Aussies, English. All of them. And then we moved out of, out of the camp to join, to join some of the squadron and —
HD: What was your job whilst you were there? What did you do?
AS: It was classed as Fitter 2 ‘cause I’d taken an extra exam when I was at Binbrook. At Lindholme ‘cause my money went up which was all we was interested in in those days and joined up with the rest of the squadron there. Or a lot of the squadron.
HD: So you were part of the ground crew.
AS: Oh yes. All the time.
HD: And how many members would be in your team?
AS: Oh. There’d be quite a number really because there’d be so many to an aircraft which would include, what should we, say — airframes, engines, [pause] instruments, and who else? You didn’t see many armourers because there was no need. Only on, when they were bombing up. Oh and then there was all the people who were filling the tanks up on, on petrol. Yeah. There was quite a few of those. And then as far as I know General Wavell had the dirty played on him in a sense. We thought it was the dirty but it probably was. They took a load of his soldiers away from him and put him to, over in to Greece and the islands there. And of course the Germans got to know and that opened them up and they pushed us all out virtually in a very very short time. But the man who was in charge in those days of course, he lost his command — Auchinleck. That’s right. General Auchinleck. He took over and he, he kept drawing the Germans on and on and on and pushing us all out of it ‘til it got to part of a village where was El Alamein in the end. But Jerry couldn’t get through it all that easy because it was high hills either side. So it suited him and he stopped them there and then and we all were — Abu Sueir — that’s the camp I was thinking of. I mean we went back to Abu Sueir getting ready to — whatever was to get ready because there was a lot of heavy bombing as well. Apart from the shelling there was bombing as well of the Germans and things like that. And [pause] I don’t know whether I told you about the trick that when Auchinleck lost his command then and after a lot of umming and ahhing one man who should have got the job got killed in an air crash and Monty took over then. And he kidded the Jerries by sending a load of the troops towards the south part of Egypt. Of course when they got to know about it they, they thought, right, this is the time to have a go here but they were waiting for them so after a lot of, and it was a lot of, what shall we say? A lot of gunfire and shells and things like that they broke through and starting pushing the Jerries back. And once they started there was no stopping them. The only place that I can think of off-hand where Jerry held the troops a bit was at a place called Tobruk because the Aussies were in there. They’d taken it over. Eventually they were got out anyway. And the move still pushed on and on and on. Got to Libya and from Libya they ran into what’s the next after that? Tunisia. And like we were following up as best we could and there was one part, when we got to Tunisia we were put in camp and it was an orchard but it was on a very high slope and it was apricots. That’s it. And we made pigs of ourselves probably with the fruit but still. Unfortunately, during the night there was a cloud burst which was something you never saw in the desert but it was pretty common in Tunisia and we got flooded out. Our equipment got washed away but still we overcome it in the end and packed up ready for the next move. And our next move was — oh it was near a church there. An old fashioned church and a lot of, where a lot of burials had taken place but still we moved on towards Tunis itself then. And, oh that’s when Jerry completely packed in virtually. I think Rommel cleared it off back and got as many troops out as they could. But we as I say we was there. Oh and we had a good thing come through for us all. Or we thought it was good at the time. Half the squadron would be given three days leave in Tunis. When we’d had our three days the other half could go which they did do. And then once we all got back together again they said, ‘Right. You’re on the move. You’re going to the port now.’ And I think the port was something like Bizerte. Something like that anyway. And we boarded this American troop carrier ship and we set off from there across the Mediterranean and we were going to [pause] first we were told we were going to Cyprus. Not Cyprus. What’s the island there at the base of Italy? Anyway, it got all diverted and we went around and in no doubt — like everybody else has heard about the lady’s foot and we went right the way around to to the port where we got off. I think I made a note of that one ‘cause I couldn’t remember it.
HD: Was it Sicily where you were?
AS: Bari.
HD: Bari.
AS: We landed at Bari or Bari or whatever they liked to call it. And that’s where we loaded. We landed. It was pitch dark. It was coldish and wet but still we’d landed and we knew we were in another country virtually then and —
HD: So were you moved around quite frequently?
AS: Yes. Yeah.
HD: How often did you stay at a place?
AS: You never really knew. Might be a couple or three days. Might not be. Anyway, from — from Bari or Bari whichever it was we headed to a place more towards the middle of the country called Foggia where we unloaded everything. Our aircraft caught up with us and things like that. Where we had to have new ones we got new ones and it was a little while after we’d been there so we were virtually [pause] there’s a proper word I think was we were seconded to the Americans. They didn’t actually give orders but they were in because they’d already landed on the west coast there. And then —
HD: Can we go back a bit and when you were in these various camps. What was it like living there?
AS: There was no real camps. There were no real camps. Once we’d left Egypt there were no real camps. You made your own camps and if you were fortunate, fortunate enough to find a place that had been used by Jerry for aircraft well your aircraft could use it but there weren’t so many ‘til we got to —more till we got to where all that trouble is just lately. There. Course there was a big aerodrome just outside.
HD: So what were the living conditions like?
AS: Well it was a bit tough. It was a bit tough but if you’d got yourself equipped properly, put it that way and funnily enough the best part of your equipment then was your greatcoat because it was so cold at night and you’d pitch your tent on a bit of proper decent land and, and — of course you didn’t hang about a lot. I’ll say that. You’d get moved on and on. Libya. That’s what I was trying to think of and there was this big aerodrome just outside. We stayed quite near to that and from there as I would say we moved on towards Tunisia then and in Tunisia we was in this orchard or whatever you would like to call it until — and even we liked it a little bit because the [pause] if any aircraft had landed there at night instead of us having to guard it the mounted Arab people — they took over and they used to gallop all around the camp and make sure, make sure everything was alright.
HD: How did you get on with the people?
AS: Well you didn’t have many outsiders. They’d be your own, you’re own people mostly.
HD: You didn’t mix with the other cultures.
AS: Yeah. Yeah. You didn’t mix. Well, you didn’t, you didn’t really see many others. Like we saw these mounted Arabs but they did a good job. They saved us a lot of work. But then we moved off right into Tunis. That’s where we got the time. And then Winston Churchill came out there and he had, of course there would be a big parade as you can imagine. And he was supposed to have said, I didn’t hear him say it, but he was supposed to have said, ‘I’m going to take the air force back to England.’ But we didn’t go. So we started, once we got into Italy, the bombing started and things like that. We took —
HD: So what year was this?
AS: El Alamein was 1942. It could have been the end of — or part of 1943 and part of ‘44 probably. And we had, as I say, taken over or were at the point of taking over to liberate although we were still operating with the Wimpies, the Blenheim and things like that and it was from there I was going to tell you a little bit. It’s a bit more juicier than any other part. We’d gone up into the mountains ‘cause one of our aircraft had crashed up there and when we eventually found it because it wasn’t easy trying to find exactly where they were and when we did find it it wasn’t a sight to see. No. And some of the crew had come out of the aircraft and they were laying there nude because they’d all been robbed of their clothes and things like that and there wasn’t a lot we could do about it. We did, where possible, if I remember rightly, we took their discs off ‘cause you know you have your discs and I think we had to hand them over to the police people. Anyway, we were glad to get away from that because we, we’d had to dig our truck out a few times because of the rain and mud. Anyway, coming back off that in the hope we’d be going back to the squadron in Foggia but that got stopped. We were met at this village and — by the Redcaps. The army Redcaps. They said, ‘Sorry. Off the road.’ So we got off the road. Unfortunately, where they stood it was like a bit of a space before you saw any houses and that so we were lucky to drop into that space and the reason why we had to do that and they hadn’t started then but we heard them coming along. There was the fourth Indian div were changing sides. They were moving from the west side, that’s right, to the east side. That’s right. And that took the best part of four days because you had your tanks going through. Your armoured vehicles and guns going through. ‘Course they weren’t hard up together. There was a slight gap all the way through. And I was an NCO then and the — it appears that the village doctor said I’ll, and he must have said this to the sergeant or flight sergeant who was in charge, ‘Two of you come to dinner on Saturday.’ Or Friday. Whichever it was. Which we did — we didn’t — and it was a strange way of eating at home I’ve ever noticed. You don’t get everything put in to dishes on the table. You started, what did we start with? I think we started off with a poached egg. Then started off with some meat or sausage and that’s why everything gets put on separately. Anyway, there was a glass of wine so we didn’t mind and we stayed there with them a couple or three hours before we came out and made sure everybody else was alright. They — that had been our biggest worry when we had got pushed off the side. They were getting food rations for us all. But —
HD: What was the food like whilst you were travelling around?
AS: Well, mostly it started off with — I’ll tell you its proper name — corned beef. We used to call it desert chicken. And from there you’d probably get a tin of vegetables which was [McConicky’s?] [McConicky’s?]. That’s it. And then you’d get something else that was — for making a cup of tea. You’d get the tea and then you’d get some powdered milk in it and if you took it then you could perhaps get a bit of sugar but not very much. There was never much sugar. And you made your own tea all the time when we moved up in the desert part. We made — you made your own tea. And of course petrol being in abundance you was alright to — perhaps this is not right to say but I don’t know, I’ll tell you anyway. We used to get some petrol and you always saved a can. Empty can. And you’d put whatever you were making tea in that and set fire to the petrol and in no time because it didn’t take long to boil you made yourself a cup of tea. And that’s how that went on and it even went on when I was in Italy. We used to do that sort of thing. If we, if we’d got the rations for a cup of tea. Anyway, we got back. After they’d, it was a good four days to the Indian Div going through and all waving and things like that. They waved to us and we returned it and then we moved on back to Foggia where we had to report as best we could to everything that we knew. There wasn’t a lot to report. But the crews. Although they were all dead. There was nobody alive and the plane was virtually a write-off. The — that was the responsibility of the police. What they called the gendarmes. Something like that. And they had to see to all that. Picking them up. Taking them away. But, as I say, it was a sight.
HD: How did you feel whilst you were moving?
AS: I wouldn’t want to see it again. Anyway, we, we got away in the end and got back to camp. That’s how things were then. The Germans in Italy packed in before those in Europe. It was only a matter of probably a week if it was a week. But in that time I was notified that as I’d been abroad quite a while I was to go back to England. It wasn’t, it wasn’t a fortnight’s leave. It might have been nine days or ten days leave. Which I did do. I had to travel up there through Switzerland. Simplon Tyrol it was called and but when we got to the station we weren’t allowed to even put a foot on to the platform. We had to stay on the train as best we were.
HD: This was in Switzerland.
AS: There was crowds there to see us. We moved on from there up through the rest of France and I think I came from Dieppe actually. I think I did. Dieppe to Folkestone I was on and the rations were very poor on the train travelling and so was the trains. They were hard seats and everything else. And then I got my leave and came into England and I was fortunate to see my parents again.
HD: So what was the time difference from when you went into the air force and then you got a break? You were able to come home? Was it a few years that you hadn’t seen your parents?
AS: I got, I got — we used to get weekend leaves from Binbrook. And, oh yes we also used got seven days leave from there. At times. Not very often. But at times. But —
HD: So when you were abroad how many years was it until you saw your parents again?
AS: Four years. Yeah. And then when my leave was up I had to make my way all the way back to where I started from. I think it was Foggia again. To meet up with my squadron. That’s when the rest of the lads said, ‘Oh don’t bother to unpack. We’re on our way back to Egypt.’ And we went all the way back. First of all I went back to Shallufa again. When I got to Shallufa I saw my first Lancaster bomber. It hadn’t got any ‘drome, aerodrome squadron letters on it or anything. It was brand new. Where it had come from I wouldn’t know. And after we’d been there the first couple of days they said, ‘Would you do an inspection on that Lanc that’s there?’ Well we were working blind to a sense but we got through. We knew near enough what we had to do. Then we left that and I went all the way back to Shallufa in Egypt again.
HD: What did you think of the Lancaster bomber?
AS: Oh it looked fantastic to me. It was, it was, as I say there was, there was no painting on it for what squadron it was going to or anything. We didn’t know anything about that. But it looked fantastic. Probably a better word for us — fantastic. And anyway, we did an inspection. Signed for it because you had — in the air force you signed for everything like that. One was for a daily inspection and you’d get a weekly one and then it would get bigger and bigger and bigger when it got to umpteen hours the aircraft had done it got sent to a repair and salvage squadron which was part of your unit and of course they would virtually strip it right down. And from then on after I’d got back there had another good word — ‘You’re on your way home.’ So what we had to do again —
HD: So did you make good friends in the RAF?
AS: Oh you always do. You probably don’t make a lot of [pause] people that you would call friends but you would call them people that you knew that, well, you know, you’d get chatting to and things like that. The only friend I made in the air force was when I was at Binbrook and I remember him coming there and we got talking and he said, ‘What are you doing tonight?’ I said, ‘I’ve got enough money. I’ll go into Grimsby.’ He said, ‘Oh can I come?’ I said, ‘Yeah. If you like.’ I said, ‘We’ll catch a bus here and that’ll take us to the old bus station in Grimsby which is by the level crossing. It’s not. I think they use if for coaches now. I’m not sure. And from there we went in the Pestle and Mortar and had a pint. Perhaps we might have had two. And that’s how things were. Then we got back to camp and then it became regular that if neither of us was on duty we’d come into Grimsby. And we used to go to the old, the old dance hall there. And of course you could only get a cup of tea in there. There was no spirits or drinks. You might get a, you might get a sandwich if you was lucky but — and that’s where Owen first met Beverley’s mother.
HD: So the gentleman’s name was Owen Clark. His name. Was it?
AS: Yeah. Yeah.
HD: Yes.
AS: And as I say all the time until I was on demob we came out together. Well even when he got posted when I was in Italy I met him. We was in, in the camp and he, our SP called me out the tent, He said, ‘Somebody wants to see you.’ And it was Owen and his whole crew. All on Wimps they were. One, two, three, four, five. About five of them and he was on his way to 40 Squadron then. Oh I got him his breakfast. That’s it. And he said, ‘Well keep in touch.’ Send a message to one another whenever we can which wasn’t always easy. Not in those days because 40 Squadron was a hell of a distance away from where I was at Foggia. But that’s how things got going.
HD: But you always kept in touch after the war.
AS: We kept in touch. And then after. Well he did afterwards because I was out probably long before him and we always sent one another Christmas cards. If we didn’t send anything else we sent Christmas cards ‘cause the next I heard he’d, he’d got married to Eva. And [pause] and the next bit of bad news I got was when he passed away.
HD: What year was that?
AS: Beverley could tell you. Something six. Six at the end. What was that?
BS: ’66. ’66. 1966. [unclear]
AS: And that’s when I had, I think it — I got a feeling it was Nancy that sent me the letter anyway that said that he’d passed away and I said, oh yeah, I said to Nancy what was Eva’s phone number? And she told me and I wrote it down and I phoned her up. I said, ‘I’ll come as soon as I can for a weekend but I don’t know how soon the soon can be.’ So, I eventually got out pretty quick anyway and I travelled up and they were both here when I came in. Nancy was the older sister and they were like blood brothers if you like. Put it that way. Where one was the other one was. And ‘cause in those days you couldn’t leave your car outside. You had to lights on it at night but the lady who lived in the end bungalow said to her, ‘Oh tell him to put it on our bit of land.’ So I didn’t have to put lights on it and that’s how things went on. I stayed till, I stayed till the Monday and I had to get back then and I said, ‘I’ll been in touch.’ And I used to phone her every night or she phoned me every night.
HD: Where were you living at the time?
AS: I was living in Worcester Park which is a suburb. Well it’s in Surrey and in those days it used to be called something in the London area. And I had a few weekends up and even even took Eva or even my parents came up a few times as well because to me in those days Grimsby was a smashing place. There was no hustle and bustle of traffic like there was in London and there was no what shall we say? Rowdyism as there is now unfortunately. And I came up and after a few weekends Eva and I decided to get married. And she — and I always remember she came down to, we stayed down in London for a while and she suddenly stopped. We were in Oxford Street then. She said, ‘I’ve made my mind up.’ I said, ‘What?’ She said, ‘If you want me you’re going to have to come and live with me.’ And —
HD: So where did you first meet Eva?
AS: Pardon?
HD: Where did you first meet Eva?
AS: In Grimsby. There was Owen and I. He knew her before I did.
HD: And she was in the RAF as well?
AS: No. No. No. I think she was a busy girl working somewhere. I think she even worked in the jam factory. What was — no.
BS: She was in the laundry.
AS: Oh. But before that.
BS: No. She was in the laundry when you met her.
AS: Oh when I met her. Oh yeah. And that’s from there life began and we got married and —
HD: So is there — whilst you were in the RAF is there one experience that really stands out for you?
AS: Yeah. I suppose there was one thing could have stood out for me was they put the Wellingtons on bombing of Berlin which — it was a pushed job really. We had to fit false wings, well not wings, petrol tanks on them to take up the extra mileage they were doing but even then they never really got back. Fortunately they could land in Suffolk or somewhere like that. And we were bombing then. Oh and then there was a right panic but we never knew about the full story. Never did know. They were saying, ‘Right. We are going to bring canisters out of poison gas because Jerries’ using poison gas,’ but what they got out they put back in stock again here. They never used it. Never loaded it up. But it was, that was one of the panics that were on. Then there was another panic that was supposed to have happened because [pause] Owen and I were in the pub in the village and it came on the tannoy system, ‘Return to camp immediately everybody.’ There was quite a raid going on on Binbrook camp and it was said afterwards, I don’t know whether it was true or not because I didn’t see it but they said that one of the German aircraft landed and took off from Binbrook. ‘Cause there was no real runway at Binbrook then. It was all open fields on top of the hills there and they said one landed and took off again. Whether it was a leg pull on there but I think there could have been some truth in it.
HD: So going back to when you were in Egypt and travelling around Africa — when you had time off duty what did you do?
AS: Never had time off. You might have done if you was at base camp and you might say, ‘Oh let’s pop into Cairo for a couple of hours,’ or something like. But once you got on the move there was no — no leisure time as such. We had our own leisure to make do which you either played cards or, and things like that which was got through a bad hour or two. But normally all the good news come if you were at base. If you were at base they might say well nothing for you today like. Tonight. And you might say, ‘Oh well we’ll pop in. Into Cairo or anything like that.
HD: How did you feel when you were on these trips? How did you feel?
AS: Oh not bad because I got to know a nice little café in Cairo where we used to go and have our breakfast if we were early. And it, cor, the chap there used to pile us up and really looked, he didn’t mind. He’d say, ‘Oh if you’re hungry during the day come back. I’ll see what I’ve got,’ And things like that. He was a, he was a real gentleman actually. And that’s what he used to say, ‘Oh come back and have something to eat.’ But mostly if we went there, there was, on the corner of one of the main roads was — was like a restaurant really. You could go in even then and have a drink or whatever you wanted. And I always remember being in there one night, Owen and I, and some bigwigs — Egyptians — came in and sat quite near us actually but we didn’t know them or who they were. Though the boss did tell us that one of them was later to become one of the presidents but he was talking to us in the pub and well they even offered to buy us a drink. Which, we probably said yes. And that was it. But actually what his name was I didn’t really know but if that was him I remember him coming in and talking to us and things like that. ‘Cause —
HD: Were you ever frightened whilst you were working?
AS: Frightened? You might be a bit. Not necessarily frightened. You might be a bit edge on whether there was going to be a raid or not or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. You’d be concerned. I wouldn’t say frightened because to be frightened — it’s a funny word I think when there’s other troops in the army. They would never use the word “frightened.” They would use the word that they [detained by?] and moving up or and we got to know quite a few army people when we were out there. As I say there was Aussies, New Zealanders, Indians, British. Moving out was quite something really. And I don’t know whether there was a photograph. Was there a photograph in there with Churchill talking? Well that was Tobruk. And we saw him coming from Tobruk. He came on to the squadron but he didn’t have anything to say. Montgomery used to ‘cause he was a [pause] nothing against him, he was a very religious type of person and if he wanted you for something if it was the whole squadron or if it was the army you had to shut your mouth ‘cause he’d say, ‘I’m doing the talking.’ And that’s how he carried on. We met him once or twice. He came in when he knew the squadron was moving on or — oh yeah. That was the sort of thing that went on but to say leisure time in the desert. No. Because if we, if we were fortunate enough to get near to the Mediterranean we could nip in and have a good splash around. Have a wash and have a swim because water was rationed. You had your water bottle that you had and the only blessing probably we had over the army lads that if we had an aircraft going back to base he’d come back with some water and probably a few bottles of wine and things like that where probably the army lads couldn’t get that sort of thing. And it was, it was in Italy that I did lose somebody that I got attached to I think. He was a wireless operator air gunner he was. Scotch lad. And he came up to me one day. He’d managed to have got hold of —whether he’d just been to base or not himself I don’t know but he’d got a bottle of wine and he said, ‘Al, will you come around my tent later on?’ which I did do. And he said, ‘It’s my twenty first today.’ So we drank this bottle up. And he said, ‘Well I’d better get ready ‘cause I’m on ops tonight.’ I said, ‘I might see you on take-off then because I shall be there.’ So he said, ‘Yeah.’ But unfortunately that was the last I saw of him. He went on to Romania that night. It was a big, big — oh a hell of a load of aircraft it was because that’s where Jerry was getting a lot of his petrol and stuff from and I think they bombed the hell out of it actually but unfortunately he must have been shot down or something like that. I don’t know but I never saw him anymore. All I know that his name was on that do at Runnymede but up to this day I can’t remember his name. There’s a lot of names I can’t remember but — and a lot of things I can’t remember.
HD: Well thank you so much for conducting this interview. It’s very kind of you.
AS: And I did like — he was a nice lad and I — things in general yeah I did like them.
HD: Good.
AS: I had some good times in the air force. I don’t know whether I told you I never regretted joining the air force. A lot of people did. They moaned from the day they got in until the day they got out but I didn’t mind it. You had to do what you had to do and you had to do what you was told to do but there you are. Yeah. Yeah. I met quite a few — what shall we say? Well known footballers, I think, when I was in the air force. There was Dodds. And there was several of the England team in those days that I got to know. Of course a lot of them joined up at virtually the same time as I did. They were all in the same queue as it were and we got chatting as you do.
HD: Well thank you Mr Seaggar. It’s been wonderful to hear your experiences.
AS: I hope it’s been some use to you.
HD: Most definitely. Thank you very much. So the interview finished at 11.20
AS: Right. Thank you. ‘Cause as I say, the air force, I’ve no grudges against them.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Alan Seagger
Creator
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Helen Durham
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-07-29
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ASeaggerA160729, PSeaggerA1612
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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01:04:35 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
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Egypt
Great Britain
Italy
Sierra Leone
Tunisia
North Africa
Egypt--Suez
England--Lincolnshire
Italy--Foggia
Italy--Bari
Egypt--Cairo
Description
An account of the resource
Before the war, Alan was an electrical apprentice. He joined the RAF and was posted to RAF Binbrook before being posted overseas. He was at RAF Shallufa for a time and was placed with No. 37 Squadron, who moved to Egypt. There were troops of different nationalities. After Libya, he moved to Tunisia, and he reports on a visit by Churchill to Tobruk. There were difficult conditions in the camps. He discusses the food rations and an unusual way of making tea. He also describes the very few occasions when they had free time, going into Cairo and swimming in the Mediterranean.
Alan refers to the failures and successes of the commanders during this period: General Wavell, General Auckinleck and Montgomery. Alan was classed as fitter, part of ground crew. Alan subsequently sailed to Bari in Italy and then on to Foggia. He talks of going to find an aircraft which had crashed in the mountains. He did not see his family for four years. He returned to Foggia and then went back to Egypt, initially to RAF Shallufa where he was impressed with his first Lancaster. Alan describes the inspections carried out. Alan recounts a couple of his wartime experiences and the sad loss of a 21 year old wireless operator/air gunner.
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
crash
fitter airframe
ground crew
Lancaster
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF Binbrook
RAF Shallufa
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/638/8908/AShawWH151027.1.mp3
14ff9f7e0fd3903f2c73a2d0175fe797
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Shaw, William Horace
W H Shaw
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Shaw, WH
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with William Horace Shaw (1892171 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a wireless operator / air gunner with 37 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2015-10-27
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Transcription
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CB: Right, I’m with Bill Shaw, who was wireless air gunner, operator air gunner, and we are in Reading, and we’re going to talk about his life and, in the RAF and what he did afterwards. So Bill – er the date today is the 27th of October 2015. Bill, could you start with the earliest days with your family, where were they, where were you born, what do you remember about the early experiences?
WS: Well I was born in a London hospital, in Whitechapel, 26th of February 1924. My mother was living then in Kenning [?] Street Road, her father was a farrier and dyers and cleaners business. Soon after I was born, I was just thinking it must have been something like fifteen months, they moved to Layton and mother opened up a shop for dying and cleaning. My father then was out of work because by that time there was the depression in 1926 [emphasis]. He did get a job, I can’t remember in very much detail of that time, he did get a job in Sutton, Surrey, on the parks department there because he was a professional gardener, and travelled backwards and forwards for a time, and then they got a house in Sutton which he rented from the council. And I moved to Sutton in 1929 when I was about five, just before I was five. I can’t remember the details exactly, but soon after we went to Sutton, I caught diphtheria which was quite a killer disease in those days. There was a lot of controversy that I got told about after I’d got better was the fact that the doctor wanted me to go to hospital and mother wouldn’t agree to go, me to go into hospital, mainly because back in the First World War when my father was in France, their first baby died of diphtheria when she was thirteen, and as a result of that Mum and Dad wouldn’t let me go into hospital [emphasis] so Mother had to nurse me at home. All I can remember about that is that I had to lie flat on my back, I wasn’t allowed to sit up at all, it was a liquid [emphasis] diet. I can just about [emphasis] remember that my sister used to sit on the stairs outside reading stories, otherwise the only thing I can remember about it was the fact that when I got better, the first time I could sit up I could look out the window and see my father picking some mushrooms in the cold frames in the nursery and brought those in, that was the first meal I’d had for a very, oh goodness knows how many weeks. Then I can’t remember how many weeks it was, but – then I went to school as usual in Sutton at the infants, and junior school. And then when I was about twelve I suppose it was, I went to secondary school in Wallington, had some success and some failures there [laughs]. Cricket and rugby was the two games I played. I made a stained glass window in the art class which was quite a feat – I often wonder what happened to that. And then takes you round to 1939, we broke up for usual, as usual for the summer holidays. I went to stay with my sister who was by that time married and living with a family up in Gobowen on the border between Shropshire and Wales. I don’t know why but after a few weeks with her, I think mainly because she was expecting a baby, I went to live with an auntie in Chester [emphasis], and that part I can remember because on the Sunday morning on the 3rd of September was when war was declared. My school closed for the duration so I, unbeknownst to me I’d left school, and then I came back to Sutton for home, 1940, in April 1940, I managed to get a job with an insurance company in London. And on reflection you think what a daft place to go and start work [laughs] with the Blitz on. We went to – it was exciting times in a way. I think it was 1941 when I joined the Home Guard, and that helped me a great deal for when I was called up into the services. I didn’t think so at the time, but I think it was about when I was seventeen I had to register I think for the conscription, when you had to decide whether you wanted to, which service to go into. At that time there were rumours about pilots going on indefinite leave [CB laughs] so I thought ‘that’s a good idea,’ and I put down my name for the RAF and air crew. You didn’t get much opportunity to decide what you wanted to do in aircrew mainly because you didn’t know what went on [laughs]. I had, I was put down as a wireless operator air gunner. Then you went home again to wait for, you know, a call to arms. That was on the 24th of May 1943 that I reported to Lourdes Cricket Ground [emphasis]. We were stationed – we were billeted in some blocks of flats in Abbey Wood I think it was called, just outside Lourdes, for I think it was something like two weeks or ten days while you were kitted out. Then went on to ITW, don’t think there was anything in between. ITW was at Bridgnorth up in Shropshire, which was a town renowned for the number of pubs it had [CB laughs]. ITW – I can’t remember how long it lasted but after that you went on leave for, I suppose it was a week, maybe five days something like that. You reported then to radio school [emphasis], Number Two Radio School at Yatesbury in Wiltshire. That’s when soon after we started the radio course they decided that there was no need for the gunnery part of it so we trained as a signaller.
CB: Mm.
WS: Odd times getting home for leave and hitching lifts and that kind of thing. Qualified as a signaller. again I can’t really remember how long that course took, but as you qualified, normally you went straight on leave, but the night before we were due to go on leave, as we had two empty beds in our hut, they introduced two new intake into our hut, one of which the next morning reported sick with suspected scarlet fever, which meant we were confined to the hut straight away – food was brought in et cetera, et cetera, for about ten to twelve days again until it was confirmed whether it was scarlet fever or not, and then, as we left behind most of the course because of the scarlet fever scare, they decided we could go up to Scotland on a gunnery [emphasis] course. Now that was very good organisation because we went down into town to get onto a train, there was as far as I could remember roughly fifty, fifty five of us. We got on the train to go up to Scotland, we didn’t know whereabouts in Scotland we were going, just that we were going north, and every few miles or so we were, the carriage we were in was shunted to the sidings to let traffic go down from the north to the south. And then we push on and eventually [emphasis] although we’d left sort of first thing in the morning from Yatesbury, we got up to a place called Evanton, or Evanton [pronounced differently] in Scotland, early evening, only to find that the reason for our long journey was the fact that D-Day had started, and the traffic going from north to south was all the tanks and troops going down for the invasion. We did gunnery school – so as they changed their mind about us, we thought, we assumed that we would be due to go on Coastal Command [emphasis]. As Coastal Command, because of the duration of the trips or flights, had three wireless operator air gunners to each crew, so three of us had palled up. We left to go on leave after gunnery course. I’d arranged with my girlfriend, who I’d met before [emphasis] I went into the RAF to meet and go to stay with an aunt of hers away from the bombing. We were due to go to Stamford. We were gonna meet at Waterloo Station on the Saturday morning. I had spent [unclear] leave at home in Sutton, all ready to go to Waterloo when the knock at the doors, and a policeman had asked, had a telegram for Sergeant Shaw. And my mother took it off him and said ‘what shall I do?’ I said ‘well give it back to him and tell him I’ve gone to Stamford’ [laughs]. I thought we must get a couple of days at Stamford before they caught up with us [CB laughs]. We got up there, sat down to tea on the first day, there was a knock at the door and I heard someone say ‘Sergeant Shaw,’ and my aunt said ‘don’t know no Sergeant Shaw,’ because although she knew my Christian name [CB laughs] she didn’t know my surname [emphasis], I thought I’d better show my face [laughs]. And the, he gave me orders to report back to my unit with small kit and pay book. Pam said ‘what are you going to do?’ I said ‘well, you go down the station and find out when the last train goes and I’ll report to the transport officer’ which I did, and he said ‘ooh, well you’ve missed the last train,’ ‘cause I thought well at least we’d have one night [laughs], and the next day Pam went back to her home in Fulham in London and I went up to Scotland to report back to the unit. They, they measured my height and weighed me, and sent me back on leave [emphasis], indefinite leave. I thought ‘ooh this is nice, indefinite leave.’ That lasted three days [both laugh], and I was – had orders to go back to West Kirby which was near Birkenhead, transit camp. We were then embarked on a ship, we went up to Grenick [?] for the ship for the convoy to assemble. And I can remember one chap on the ship when we first sailed – we got out of sight of land and he said ‘oh that’s enough of that, let’s go back’ [CB and WS laugh]. The eventually we – I think we were about three weeks on the boat, we didn’t know where we were going of course, but we reckon we were going west for so many days and then we turned south for a bit and then – during the night of course you didn’t know whether you’d changed course or not, but eventually we got to Alexandria [emphasis]. We disembarked in Alexandria, that was out first real taste of overseas [emphasis] service really. Before we got off the ship there was boys, native [emphasis] boys on the quayside shouting up for white money, and there was troops, it was mainly an army ship just ‘cause there was only about fifty of us in RAF, and the, there was a Scottish regiment, or Scottish company, and the, used to throw coppers in, which of course was no good to the boys because they couldn’t see them in the muddy water [emphasis]. So when they [laughs] used to dive in after the money, they used to shout ‘bloody Scotsmen’ [both laugh]. And that was then my initiation into overseas service [laughs]. And we disembarked, went on a train down to a place called Ismailia [emphasis], to a transit camp. I can’t tell you how long we stayed there but then we went on another [emphasis] train up to Jerusalem. We got to Jerusalem – there was an officer in the room there which interviewed us and we were still the three of us together still, and he said ‘where did you do your ASV course?’ We hadn’t a clue what he was talking about, we hadn’t, never done that. So he said ‘you should have done that before you came out,’ he said ‘you’re no use to us.’ And with that we went back to the billet, which in Jerusalem was referred to as the ‘German hospital.’ We just went in there, waiting for orders. We got, a couple of us got chatting to the guard which was a local sort of people, I don’t know exactly what they were, they weren’t Arabs but – we were chatting to them, they were well educated with English, and one weekend he said he won’t, wouldn’t be there because he was going to his brother’s wedding in Bethlehem. And he said ‘you could come if you like, we go on the Friday.’ We couldn’t get away on the Friday so he instructed us how to get there on the Saturday which was a bus, Arab bus. We didn’t realise at the time that Jerusalem was up on a hill and Bethlehem was up on another hill, so the bus went down [emphasis] into the valley and up the other side. There was this road just covered in stones – it was quite a journey [emphasis] looking down into the valley as we were going round the bends [laughs]. His brother who was the bridegroom met us when we got to Bethlehem, showed us round, and the procedure then was the bridegroom, with a few others, went from house to house where the men were all sitting round. A couple of the women brought in a tray with little drinks on, brandy or Arac [?]. We didn’t know Arac was prohibited to the servicemen but it was rather nice, followed by, which amazed us, was a tin of Macintosh’s Toffees [both laugh]. So you got a little drink and a toffee [CB laughs]. And we went to around about five or six houses I suppose in Bethlehem. Then we were shown to another room where we could sort of lounge about. Food was brought in on a big circular tray, placed in the middle of the room, and our guide there, the sentries from the hospital looking after us said ‘you can eat that, don’t eat that, don’t eat that,’ and there was various dishes all on this table, and he pointed at what not to eat on [laughs] this table. And then we went to the Church of Nativity for the wedding. We were shown round the Church of Nativity, the manger and so forth, and the party went on in another house after the wedding. The bride as far as I can remember sat on a chair in a little dais, and all the guests went up and pinned money onto her dress. Of course it was nothing we do, we were just observers [emphasis] more or less, the party went on from the Saturday night into the Sunday, but we couldn’t stop all that long because we had to get back on the busses, back to billets. So that was the first time we’d seen anything of an Arab wedding. The thing that stood out in our mind then was the pews in the church were just sort of wooden benches, and we sat sort of to one side, just watching what was going on, and the baby started to cry in the middle of all the service. The women was in the same row of seats as we were, and she simply undressed her, undid her blouse to feed the baby which kept it quiet [laughs]. And we thought to ourselves, ‘just imagine that happening in England’ [CB and WS laugh]. And we went back to billet, which then came through to go to OTU Takia [?] where they were using Wellingtons for training. We did – I just can’t remember how many weeks a course went on for OTU, but on our last, we did so many circuits and bumps, so we did so many of them, but at the end of the course which consisted of cross country trips and simulated bombing on Cyprus. And the trip before last, we had a terrible storm [emphasis] while we were on the way to Cyprus, and when we were on the way back, there had been a recall signal out but I never received it because with the storm the radio was pretty useless. And the debriefing they reckon the navigator had cooked his log [?], they didn’t think that we could have got round and they reckon he’d cooked his log [?] to show that we’d got round. And the CO was going to take him off and give us another navigator, and the pilot refused to accept another navigator of an unknown quantity so to speak. The CO said ‘well you’ll have to do your cross countries again,’ so we did another set of cross countries. At the end of that we were then posted down to Shalloufa [?] the station near Suez near Egypt for conversion onto Liberators for the four engine heavy bomber. We did the conversion course on that, eventually got across to Italy and caught up with squadron. And the talk as soon as we got onto the squadron was all about the bad winter they’d had, because nothing – I think it was March by time we got there, but we, we missed that, we were in, we were under canvas of course in Italy. We did two operations [emphasis]. First one was trying to bomb a railway bridge a the north of Italy to stop the supplies coming through the tunnel in the Alps for the Germans and the second one was to bomb marshalling yards in Austria, just outside Salzburg [emphasis].
CB: Mm.
WS: Most successful, erm, that was about the end of April I should think, something like that. 1945, before we did any more operations the Germans surrendered and the hostiles ceased on the 8th of May. We then started doing more flying than we had before because the army had gone so far, so fast up to the north of Italy that they’d outstripped their supply line, and they got so many hundreds of thousands of prisoners with no supplies [emphasis], so we were flying supplies up from the south to the north of Italy. Boxes of supplies with food and rations et cetera, and also jerry cans of petrol. That went on until about the October I think it was, then we were posted back to, back to Palestine, back to Egypt, back to the Shalloufa [?] we converted onto, and I can’t remember the date, then the squadron was disbanded [emphasis]. We went, we were sent to a transit camp where we met aircrew from the other squadrons, some of which, whom we’d trained with a so forth. The procedure there was that there was a parade at eight o’clock in the morning. If your name wasn’t called out you were free to go where you liked until eight o’clock the next morning. We had a form to fill in to show, or to decide which type of ground duties you’d like, we filled three of us, there was a navigator and myself, and the two navigators and myself filled in the form with the choice of five duties. We put, so we put flying, flying, flying, flying [CB laughs] and thought we’d get called up before the CO where they sorted that out, and nothing happened for two or three days, and then our names were called out one morning, and instead of being in for the high jump we were posted to a maintenance [emphasis] unit, just outside Cairo. And then we were – pause there.
JS: Mhm, yeah.
CB: Pause?
JS: [Unclear.]
CB: Okay. We’re just pausing our tape.
[Tape paused and restarted.]
CB: So, and we’ve talked about a lot of things Bill, thank you very much, but I think it’s useful to be able to understand what the training was at various stages. So you were going to be wireless operator air gunner but only wireless operator in the end. What was the training, what did it involve?
WS: As far as I can remember, it was just a question of explaining how a radio worked for a receiver and transmitter point of view and learning the Morse code [emphasis]. The layout of the radios was sort of laid out on a table instead of in a box, it was always laid out on a table. Various wirings and the transformers and tuning, tuning veins or something wasn’t it? I can’t remember my memory’s gone. And the valves, we were shown how this valve did such and such, and this valve did such and such, and you also trained so how you could move the valves around in case one was damaged so that you could still get some sort of signal out of the set. And the same sort of thing with the trans, transmitter. It mainly as far as I can remember, learning the Morse code was the most difficult thing. The radio seemed quite straight forward, but learning the Morse code and the Q code as it was called then –
CB: What was the Q code?
WS: [Unclear]
CB: What was the Q code?
WS: Q code?
CB: What was that?
WS: You had, they’re like QDM – if you sent, if you sent out a message basically saying requesting a QDM that was meant that you wanted them to give you a magnetic course so you could then hold the key down to transmit while they picked up the signal and followed directions, and course then come back and tell you what your course was. So if you did that with two stations, you could then get a fix where the, those two courses crossed. That’s where you first flew, it took us up in the Domini [?] Rapide [emphasis], about five or six of us. That was to show whether you could stand air-worthiness, whether you were sick or frightened or so forth. And then you went on to a single engine, Proctors [emphasis] with a pilot and yourself, just local flying so you could learn how to transmit and receive in the air, and did various trips on that sort of thing. Then you had a test and on the result of that whether you qualified or not. Then you got your wings, or brevy, and then of course we went on to do the same sort of thing on the gunnery course, were you had a, an aircraft with a mid upper turret, which was an old Hampson [?], used to take off with about three I think, three, three cadets in it, and a pilot. And you rendezvous with a, another aircraft which would tell you [?] the drogue [emphasis], and used to wander round the lighthouse at, can’t remember, the north east of Scotland, and you had so many bullets each and the noses of the bullets were painted different colours so that when the drogue came back to land they could count out how many hits the red had and how many hits the green had and so forth. What happened sometimes [laughs] was the last person in to fire, instead of hitting the drogue would hit the wire that was towing the drogue and it floated out into the sea [CB and WS laugh]. So it was a wasted exercise [laughs]. But I always had quite a good eye because of, again the Home Guard going onto the army rifle ranges was a great experience for that, and the first thing we did at the gunnery school was with somebody who looked as if he was a real life old country gentleman sitting on a shooting stick with clay pigeons coming across and how to aim off with a shotgun. And he did it out, he seemed to do it without looking. I suspect he had been doing it all his life [laughs]. But then you went on to, as I say, firing air to air. I don’t think we did any air to ground I think it was all air to air firing. Where did we go from there? Believe, prior to going overseas [unclear].
CB: So prior to going abroad, you didn’t know where you were going to go at all?
WS: No.
CB: You thought you were going to Bomber Command did you?
WS: Well as we’d done a gunnery course, we, we presumed right at the beginning we were going onto bombers of some sort. I mean, it could have been night fighters. Defiants had a turret –
CB: Hmm.
WS: A radio operated turret. But as we’d done the gunnery course after they’d changed their mind and only wanted a signaller, we assumed we were going onto the Coastal Command [emphasis]. That’s where we ended up in Jerusalem, and the chaps said ‘where did you do your ASV course?’ Which I never really understood what it stood for but it was something to do with the air search or something, with this radar business you could see under – submarines if they were near the surface of the water.
CB: Mm.
WS: But that’s all I know about that. We never did that before we went over there so we had to go back to the transit camp and wait until they could sort of feed us in with the Middle East Bomber Command.
CB: What was your squadron number?
WS: Thirty-seven.
CB: And was that with you in the Middle East or did you join it in Italy?
WS: No that was – well no, we joined it in Italy because the squadron had been in the western desert right the way through North Africa –
CB: Mm.
WS: Then over to Italy, which was 1205 Group.
CB: And where were you in Italy?
WS: Just outside Foggia [?], place called Torremaggiore [?].
CB: Mhm.
WS: Which was an olive, olive grove, or had been at one time.
CB: You mentioned the two ops you did –
WS: Yeah.
CB: That was the total number of ops, was it, or did you do some other ones as well?
WS: No, no that was all we did.
CB: Mm.
WS: The hostilities ceased then.
CB: Mm. Just thinking about the crew, what was the relationship between the members of the crew? How many were there first of all?
WS: Seven, in the, in the crew of the Liberator. The, we were training on the Wellingtons you had two gunners, when you went onto the Liberator you had three gunners. So you had the pilot, engineer, navigator, bomb aimer, wireless operator, two gunners and the wireless operator stood in as a third gunner if it was required.
CB: Mm. And how did the crew get on?
WS: We got on very well, yes. The engineer was a Scotsman who, because he was an engineer they were always much older, they were two or three years older than the rest of us because of their engineering training, but the one we had [laughs] was quite a good engineer but he did like his whisky [CB laughs]. So [laughs] sometimes it was a job to keep him away from that. One of the gunners was also the heavy weight champion of the Middle East while we were there for the boxing, otherwise we got on. The pilot had been a van driver before he was called up, delivering groceries, the navigator had been a coal miner working down the pits [CB laughs], I’d been a clerk down in East Yorks [?] [laughs]. I can’t remember – ooh two of the gunners had been, two of the gunners had been what? I think they’d been in the RAF but remustersed [?] or transferred onto aircrew. I think they’d been on ground duties when they’d first – they were a year’s difference in age made an awful lot of difference at that time –
CB: Hmm.
WS: You were either old or not, you know [laughs]. And those in the year older than you were old.
CB: Yeah.
WS: It was – especially the engineer who was two or three years older. He was an old man [laughs].
CB: What’s this – was your particular formed in Italy, and how was that done –
WS: No –
CB: Or did you just join a crew that was short of –
WS: At OTU, where you started, at the beginning of OTU, all the aircrews of various trades, like the bomb aimer and pilot, came up from South Africa, I think the rest of us had come out from Blighty, but we were all in, so many hundreds of us in the hangar, and it was the pilot’s job then to come around amongst all these aircrew. He came up to me and said ‘would you like to fly with me?’ And I’d never met him before [laughs] so it was a why not sort of thing, you know. And then you couldn’t tell if you wanted to or not [laughs]. So you said ‘yes’ and he had to round and pick his navigator and his engineer and gunners like that, so at the end of the day he’d formed a crew [emphasis].
CB: What nationalities did you have?
WS: Erm –
CB: The pilot for example. He came up from South Africa but what – did he train there or was he actually from South Africa?
WS: He trained as a pilot in South Africa but he wasn’t –
CB: He was a Brit was he?
WS: Yeah he was English, I was English, the navigator was a Yorkshire man, there’s quite a difference there [CB and WS laugh]. Bomb aimer was a Scouse [CB laughs]. One of the other gunners was a Yorkshire man I think – I can’t remember – mid upper gunner, mid upper gunner was a Scotsman, one of the gunners came from Leicestershire somewhere, I think it was. But I suppose quite a normal span of occupations overall.
CB: Yeah.
WS: Really.
CB: Now, people’s experiences varied hugely in some people later in the war didn’t experience the same draw, draw, dramas [emphasis] that others had –
WS: Oh no –
CB: In the middle of the war perhaps.
WS: No –
CB: But in your case, what sort of excitements did you have in your flying activities? Or even on the ground?
WS: Well [laughs] the only thing I can remember stands out most is on the first operation. ‘Cause on the Liberator, the bomb doors used to – the bombs were inside the aircraft and the bombs used to go up the sides. And there was a lever which operated the bomb doors, which with the vibration of the aircraft, if they came down two or three inches, would interfere with the bomb release gear. And there was a catwalk through the aircraft with the bombs hanging over either side like that, and my job was to sit on the end of this catwalk holding this lever so it kept the doors up, out on the, on the bombing run, and I was also told to, you know, report any hang ups, and being very naïve I thought ‘oh that’s easy, I can go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.’ It dawned on me afterwards [laughs] if the bomb’s about a hundred yards apart on the ground it’s a split second up there [laughs]. So I was sitting up there [unclear] thinking ‘I’m ready,’ you know, this and this, bomb aimer said ‘bomb’s gone,’ and the bomb went down like that, the aircraft went up and I nearly fell out the bottom [CB and WS laugh].
CB: Sounds dangerous [WS laughs].
WS: And there were – you kept the bomb doors open, sitting on there for, looking for fighters coming up underneath.
CB: Mm.
WS: Until you were sort of well clear of the target. And the second trip we had to Austria was a moonlit night, and coming back you had the beautiful snow coloured mountains [laughs]. It was quite picturesque [emphasis]. There was one aircraft, single engine aircraft, I couldn’t tell you what it was, whether it was an ME109 or what I don’t know, might have been an F190, that sort of went across quite a way below us, he didn’t take any notice of him so we didn’t take any notice, you know, he didn’t take any notice of us so we didn’t take any notice of him. That was the only activity I had on that trip. On the railway bridge, that was the first trip I did – that was at the foot of the Alps, Northern Italy, where the trains coming through the tunnel in the Alps across the River Po, then the Americans, who were stationed on the other side of the airfield with Flying Fortresses used to go out during the daytime raids, and they would come back some of them shot up, so we had their intelligence and whether we were flying under them, under them. They were in control, control of the airstrip so to speak. Reports of so many hundred guns protecting this bridge and that sort of thing. And we went out at night, which the Americans thought we were mad [CB laughs]. And of course they, they were day [emphasis] gunners, they’d got not radar in those days. No, they were day gunners, so although they might hear us they couldn’t know where we were.
CB: What sort of height [emphasis] were your flying at?
WS: Bombing height was eight thousand five hundred.
CB: And the bomb load, how big?
WS: It was I think four, four one thousand pounds and eight five hundreds I think it was [unclear]. I got a couple of photographs there –
CB: Good.
WS: Of – taken by the camera automatically when the bombs burst.
CB: And how was the adjustment made for the camera to operate?
WS: I don’t know, no idea.
CB: You didn’t operate that?
WS: No, no. That was fitted in by the, sort of ground crew.
CB: Mm.
WS: Who had the height, knew what height the bombing height, height would be –
CB: ‘Cause they’d need to know the height to do it, yep.
WS: So the camera was fixed [emphasis] –
CB: Mm.
WS: On that thing. I – on one of them you could just about un, make out the river, but otherwise I, I don’t see what they could decipher from it.
CB: So both occasions, these two ops where in, in the night.
WS: Yes, yes. Mm, yeah.
CB: Okay. Changing the subject slightly, what did you learn about, or see, to do with LMF? Or did it not arise?
WS: No. We’d heard about it but no context [unclear]. Never knew anybody that was classified as that.
CB: Mm. And did you know what happened to aircrew that were accused of that?
WS: No, no. We – I suppose being oversees we got very little information from anything [laughs].
CB: Mm, mm.
WS: I don’t know whether anybody was sent back to this country –
CB: Perhaps it happened differently there.
WS: I don’t know.
CB: Okay.
WS: News, news was very late coming through.
CB: Mm. So the war ended, and you didn’t come out until 1947 –
WS: Yeah.
CB: So what did you do in the meantime?
WS: Well to start with, when the squadron first went back to Egypt before it was disbanded, I can only think that we were kept operational because of the Cold War [emphasis]. Because, because twice [emphasis] we were bombed up at that time, never really knew whether that was a real [emphasis] emergency or just something to keep the armies occupied.
CB: Mm.
WS: But, that was, that was really all that happened in Shalloufa [?] really then. I don’t think [emphasis] we did any, any other trips at that time.
CB: So you left [emphasis] really before the Israeli Palestinian hostilities gathered momentum?
WS: When we went – after disbandment when we were posted to the maintenance unit was [unclear] operative which is a pre-war station just outside Cairo. We had, there were five crews, pilot, navigator and wireless operator, and we had a marvellous time then because we were in brick built billets after being under canvas. All luxury [emphasis] yeah. And a chap – we had our own room, and the chappy next to me, I mean it was quite a room, about twelve by twelve, quite a size –
CB: Mm.
WS: Chap next door – we employed a boy and we gave something like the equivalent of roughly ten bob a fortnight I think it was, he cleaned our room, did our laundry, polished our buttons and shoes and that sort of thing. Gave us a cup of tea in the morning –
CB: Mm.
WS: All that sort of thing. We had a life of luxury.
CB: Mm.
WS: But that was about the time when – who was it, NASA [?] wasn’t it? Wanted Egypt for the Egyptians, they wanted the British out. And they got all these aircraft that they’d been using up in Palestine for training, just dumped [emphasis] in the desert, in a place which became locally as Wimpy Valley. Everybody knew Wimpy Valley, and they were bringing these aircraft in, putting them through the main, maintenance unit and then we’d test them and send, deliver them to wherever they had to go. We – the first consignment we had was fifty-two to be delivered to the French in Algiers. So where they, where they’d gone through the maintenance unit, and if there was no snakes [?] we’d rake them up to Algiers and then scrounge a lift back [laughs]. A lot of the trips we got back to Cairo were on American Dakotas.
CB: Oh.
WS: ‘Cause they seemed to have a taxi service running backwards and forwards –
CB: Right.
WS: From the North African coast. And as I say, we also took one or two up to Greece, one up to Palestine, things like that. And then we had orders to bring them back to this [emphasis] country. So that was a [laughs] that was a laugh really.
CB: What route did you take to do that?
WS: Well you see, we were a law unto ourselves at that time really. Nobody knew where we were or who we were [CB laughs]. We had a marvellous [emphasis] time. We used to go along to, from Cairo to I think it was Benin, refuel there, over to Luqa in Malta to refuel there, refuel to the South of France. Can’t think of the name of the place –
CB: Orange [in French accent].
WS: Toulouse was it?
CB: Orange [in French accent].
WS: Was it?
CB: Orange, yeah.
WS: Then up to St. Morgan [?] for customs clearance, and then up to Scotland to deliver these aircraft.
CB: Mm.
WS: But the first one we had to deliver was to the Bristol Aircraft Company at Gloucester. They wanted it for the engines because they were Gloucester Engines [unclear]. And we handed it over – there were three [emphasis] chaps on the airfield in a little hut. We handed over the papers and said ‘where’s the transport for, to go to the station?’ Railway station [CB laughs]. And they said ‘we haven’t got any transport. We all come to work on our bikes’ [laughs]. He said ‘we close down at four o’clock, if you’d like to wait ‘til four o’clock, we’ll run you into the railway station on the fire tender’ [CB and WS laugh]. So we travelled then up to Charing Cross, and the idea was you’d go to Charing Cross, walk up the Strand, go into Kingsway House I think it was, which was Transport Command, to book your flight back to Cairo as a passenger. So going up on the train to Charing Cross, I think it was on a Thursday or a Friday, I’m not sure which. But we said ‘nobody knows who we are [laughs], when we are [laughs] what we’re doing or anything.’ So two of us were Londoners, I can’t remember were the third person was, went, erm – so we said ‘we’ll go home for the night,’ and yeah, ‘meet again tomorrow about nine o’clock time, and go up to the Strand’ [emphasis]. So we strolled up to this place and went in to book our flight back and the chap said ‘where you come from?’ So we said ‘Cairo’ [CB and WS laugh]. He said ‘oh you want to go back, come and see me Monday’ [CB and WS laugh]. So that gave us thought for the next trip over, so we had five days [emphasis] home the next trip [laughs].
CB: So when was this? This is late forty-five is it?
WS: This is –
CB: Forty-six –
WS: Forty-six by this time, yeah.
CB: Right.
WS: I think it was when the –
CB: And what prompted the discharge? The demob?
WS: What prompted it?
CB: Yes. How did they work out, when you –
WS: Ooh I don’t know – you went into groups didn’t you, or something. I don’t know how it worked. You just had to wait and see –
CB: Mm.
WS: When your time came sort of thing.
CB: But you were still flying at that time.
WS: Erm, last time I flew in a Wellington [pause], I made a mistake [papers shuffling], I put some of my flights, civilian flights in here after the war, shouldn’t have done that, gliding. Erm, March 1947 –
CB: Mm.
WS: Is the last time I flew in a plane.
CB: What did you do when you left the RAF?
WS: Went back to where I started.
CB: In the insurance company?
WS: Yeah, they were writing to me in Egypt saying ‘when are you going to be back, there’s a job waiting for you.’ So I just went back to – as if nothing had happened, just went back to work.
CB: Mm. Where did you live then? You rented a house somewhere did you?
WS: I was living in Sutton still. The house I’d been brought up in.
CB: Mm.
WS: 1947. I was married in forty-eight. Went to live with Pam’s parents then in Fulham [pause] and – for five years. Couldn’t – we struggled and struggled to find somewhere to rent but you know, people with families were given priority and all that sort of thing. And then by a stroke of good fortune, somebody said to me one day ‘old so-and-so’s going to retire, they’re going to move down the West Country,’ and I knew where they lived and so forth. I didn’t know it was their house, I thought perhaps they just rented the, rented this house, and I went round – ‘if you’re moving out can we move in?’ [laughs] sort of attitude.
CB: Yeah.
WS: And it was their house apparently. It was a spinster [emphasis] living there. Had to sell it, and it was a house that had been divided into two flats with a sitting tenant upstairs. And I – part of my work at the office was dealing with building societies, so I knew the secretary of a small building society quite well, and I thought ‘oh.’ She told me what she wanted for it, about twelve hundred pound [laughs] for this house. Thought – the chance you take with a sitting tenant is an unknown quantity.
CB: Mm.
WS: And I went to the phone and rang up the secretary of the building society one evening, that evening, and said ‘I’ve got a bit of a problem,’ told him what, what I’d got sort of thing, and he said ‘oh, I think we can help you Bill,’ he said, ‘you’ll need two hundred pounds of deposit,’ but he said ‘we’ll take care of the rest.’ And borrowed two hundred pounds from my dad [emphasis] on pain of suffering that I paid it back within six months, and he kept on and on about this two hundred pounds until at the end of six months we’d struggled to collect it and [laughs] get it back to him. It was [laughs] ‘here’s your so and so money’ sort of thing [laughs]. Course the mortgage worked out at eight pound eleven a month, and I can see us now sitting down with pencil and paper to work out our expenditure, ‘cause we got a – we’d started a family by this time. Well, the family hadn’t been born yet. We’d started [laughs] one.
CB: How many children did you have in the end?
WS: Two, boy and a girl.
CB: And did you stay with insurance all your working life?
WS: Yeah, yeah.
CB: When did you retire?
WS: 26th of February 1985.
CB: And what was the company?
WS: General Accident.
CB: Oh right [pause].
WS: But erm, various jobs during that time –
CB: Mhm.
WS: Up in London, various, into various offices for different jobs up in London. And at Putney, the manager at Reading here rang me up. We had crossed paths at one time. He rang me up to say there was a job at Reading if I’d like to apply for it, which meant quite a bit of promotion, and I was aged fifty then.
CB: Mhm.
WS: I thought ‘nobody else is going to offer me a promotion at my time of life,’ so I went home to tea and said ‘I’ve been offered a job at Reading,’ and the family said ‘where’s Reading?’ [laughs]. We had to get the map out to find out. So that’s how I came here.
CB: And this is the house?
WS: Well that’s another story, ‘cause to – I was travelling backwards and forwards to start with. Trying to go round estate agents and – with the General Accident you had a staff mortgage with a very low rate of interest, ‘cause outside was about fifteen percent at that time, and they were doing staff loans at three and a half percent.
CB: Cor.
WS: But the amount of repayments which had to be buying down [?] policy. The premiums plus interest couldn’t exceed twenty five percent of his salary, so you could work out exactly how much you could borrow. And the property they kept sending us to and the price they were asking was ridiculous. So I was in my office one day and the – I had a newspaper cutting on my desk. And a woman came in with, delivering sort of papers and things round the building, she came in with some papers for me. She said ‘ooh, who’s buying houses then’ sort of thing, nosey sort of a person. I said ‘I’m trying [emphasis] to,’ she said ‘ooh, the one next to me’s got to be sold, take me home at five o’clock’ she said ‘you can look at mine, it’s the same as the one next door’ [laughs]. And so I came here [laughs].
CB: Amazing.
WS: People – I’ve been lucky all my life.
CB: Yeah, it’s good.
WS: So I went home and said to Pam ‘I’ve found a house,’ so we piled in the car [laughs] and came back that evening, and the people – it was a bit of an odd situation. Apparently this chap had [unclear] a farm had retired, bought this place, and he had two daughters, both married. One was living with him to look after him, and when he died he hadn’t left a will, so the place had to be sold because they couldn’t raise a mortgage to pay off the other sister. It was a game quite by chance really. The first [emphasis] time I came in – when that person showed me her house I knocked on this door to see if I could have a look round [CB coughs].
CB: Mm.
WS: The son was here, he was a bit sort of backwards, he turned out to be. I said ‘I understand your house is being sold,’ you know, ‘is it possible to have a quick look round?’ ‘Well I don’t know what I think about that’ he says, so that’s all that. He said ‘you can come in if you’d like,’ you know. And on the table in here was a letter, looking at it upside down said ‘Brain and Brain.’ And I thought ‘ooh I know them, had dealings with them through the office,’ these solicitors. So I thought ‘ooh, Brain and Brain,’ and, so the next morning I rang up Brain and Brain about Hardcourt [?] Drive. ‘Ooh come and see me’ he says, ‘come and see me.’ Real old fashioned solicitors this place, so – in the reception you had a silver tray to put your visiting card on –
CB: Really?
WS: You know, that sort of place [laughs].
CB: Yeah, yeah .
WS: And he said, he says ‘we’ve been trying to get them out for months,’ he says [CB laughs and coughs]. He says ‘there was one person interested in the house nine months ago but whether they still are’ he doesn’t know, he says ‘we’ve got to the point now where we’ve put the rent up so high we’re forcing them out’ [CB laughs]. He said ‘it’s in the hands of the estate agent now’ [CB clears throat.’ He said he couldn’t discuss the price or anything with me because he was part of the – I don’t know what they called it, the administration or something, you know to wind up the, your estate. So I went to see the estate agents. ‘Oh yeah’ he says, you know, ‘I had one offer, all I could get out of him was that the offer had to be over sixteen thousand’ [laughs]. And so I did my maths, we knew I could borrow that much, you know, that sort of business [?], and I’d got a house [unclear] to sell, and I couldn’t work out from him – but these people had been interested way back, were the party that were interested, that’s all I could find out. And he said ‘offer of sixteen thousand,’ you know, he said ‘the offer’s got to be over sixteen thousand.’ I thought ‘oh, reading between the lines, I think their offer’s sixteen, so I’ll put in an offer for sixteen one-fifty’ [laughs].
CB: And got it?
WS: [Laughing] and got it. But that – the offer I put in on the Tuesday morning, or was it the Wednesday morning? But the deadline was noon on the Thursday. So I, I hadn’t even seen [emphasis] the place, only from the outside [laughs]. So I’d got a house, didn’t know what to do with it [laughs].
CB: Amazing.
WS: The company gave me a bridging loan –
CB: Mhm. Then you sold the other one.
WS: ‘Til I’d sold the other. It took me nine [emphasis] months to sell the other one.
CB: Did it, wow.
WS: It was at a time when the high rate of interest and the market was flat [emphasis].
CB: Mm.
WS: But it turned out in the end that I’d sold that one for sixteen one, and bought this one for sixteen one-fifty [laughs].
CB: Can’t be bad. Going back to your early stage, where there acquaintances you made then who became friends and then you were in touch the rest of your life, or did the crew disperse and you never saw them again?
WS: The pilot lived near Gatwick, I kept in touch with him. We stayed friends, used to go on holiday together, that sort of thing. One of the gunners was in – the, the bomb aimer who was a Scouse had emigrated to Canada, and he used to come across and we’d meet up. The, one of the gunners was, it started off really when we were first demobbed was a reunions, that’s where it started off.
CB: Squadron reunions?
WS: Yeah. Erm, no, 205 Group reunions, group reunions. All the squadrons [unclear]. That’s when the crew was, you know, before they dispersed so to speak, for about two years I suppose.
CB: Mm.
WS: But the pilot lived near Gatwick. Say the bomb aimer – the navigator went up to Yorkshire, he was a right character he was, he never worked again [laughs]. You can’t believe it really sometimes, but his wife used to, his wife used to go out to work and he lived opposite a pub, so he used to go across to the pub [laughs]. House was a terrible [emphasis] condition. He never – he started up doing some painting and decorating as a, I don’t know, whether or not he got any jobs or not I don’t know, but he certainly didn’t do any jobs indoors [laughs], yeah.
CB: Amazing.
WS: I suppose it’s the – but the only one left now is the gunner who’s living near Waddington.
CB: Warrington?
WS: Waddington [emphasis].
CB: Waddington, right.
WS: But last I’d spoke to his wife, last I’d spoke to her she said he, he’s not well at all. He can’t talk at all now, sort of thing.
CB: Mm.
WS: So erm – I did try to contact him before going up to Lincoln but I couldn’t – what’s happened to them I don’t know but, just couldn’t get anywhere on the phone.
CB: Okay. Let’s just pause there, thank you.
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Interview with William Horace Shaw
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Chris Brockbank
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2015-10-27
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AShawWH151027
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Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:04:18 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Shropshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Cheshire
Scotland--Ross and Cromarty
North Africa
Egypt
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Austria
Austria--Salzburg
West Bank--Bethlehem
Middle East--Jerusalem
Description
An account of the resource
Bill was a wireless operator/air gunner. He joined the Home Guard in 1941 and registered for conscription to the Royal Air Force (RAF) in 1943. He reported to Lord’s Cricket Ground and went to an Initial Training Wing at RAF Bridgnorth. Bill then went to No. 2 Radio School at RAF Yatesbury where he qualified as a signaller. He did a gunnery course at RAF Evanton in Scotland before going to RAF West Kirby and embarking at Greenock to sail to Alexandria.
After a transit camp in Ismailia, Bill went to Jerusalem and attended a wedding in Bethlehem. He proceeded to an Operational Training Unit at Attiyah where they trained on Wellingtons. He was posted to RAF Shallufa for conversion onto B-24s.
Bill eventually joined 37 Squadron, No. 205 Group, at Tortorella, near Foggia. He went on two operations: one to bomb a railway bridge in the north of Italy and the second to attack marshalling yards near Salzburg in Austria. After the Germans surrendered, he flew up supplies from the south to the north of Italy. The squadron then disbanded, and Bill was sent to a maintenance unit just outside Cairo, delivering aircraft. Bill left the RAF in 1947.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sally Coulter
37 Squadron
aircrew
B-24
bombing
crewing up
Dominie
Initial Training Wing
Operational Training Unit
Proctor
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Evanton
RAF Yatesbury
training
Wellington
wireless operator
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/10243/LBrileyWG1586825v1.1.pdf
1fafc8f88de868c2a3d32e67ebd8d4b0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Briley, William George
George Briley
W G Briley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Briley, WG
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer William George Briley (1586825, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and a sight log book containing <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/987">18 target photographs</a>. After training in South Africa, George Briley completed 39 bombing and supply dropping operations as a navigator with 40 Squadron flying Wellingtons from Foggia in Italy. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by William George Briley and catalogued by Barry Hunter, <span>with additional identification provided by the Archeologi dell'Aria research group (</span><a href="https://www.archeologidellaria.org/">https://www.archeologidellaria.org</a><span>)</span>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
William George Briley's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observers and air gunners flying log book for Wiliam George Briley, covering the period from 2 December 1943 to 24 November 1945. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and communication flight duties. He was stationed at, East London, RAF Qastina, RAF Foggia and Athens. Aircraft flown in were, DH82 Tiger Moth, Anson, Empire flying boat, Wellington, Defiant, C-47, Fairchild Argus III and Liberator. He flew a total of 39 operations, 26 night and 13 daylight operations, consisting of 28 bombing operations and 11 supply drops. Targets were, Ferrara, Bologna, Milan, Athens, Brescia, Szekesfehervar, Solonica, Borovnica, Danube, Verona, Bronzolo, Tuzla, Sinj, Vragolovi, Predgrao, Zakomo, Podgorica, Novi Pasar, Chiapovano, Szombathely, Bugojno, Matesevo, Casarsa, Susegana, Salcano, Doboj, Circhina and Udine. His pilot on operations was Sergeant Hanson.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LBrileyWG1586825v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Greece
Hungary
Italy
Montenegro
Middle East--Palestine
Serbia
Slovenia
South Africa
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Bugojno (Opština)
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Doboj
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Tuzla
Croatia--Sinj
Danube River
Gaza Strip--Gaza
Greece--Athens
Hungary--Székesfehérvár
Hungary--Szombathely
Italy--Bologna
Italy--Brescia
Italy--Bronzolo
Italy--Casarsa della Delizia
Italy--Ferrara
Italy--Foggia
Italy--Milan
Italy--Susegana
Italy--Udine
Italy--Verona
Middle East--Palestine
Montenegro--Kolašin
Montenegro--Podgorica
Serbia--Novi Pazar
Slovenia--Borovnica
Slovenia--Cerkno
Slovenia--Solkan
South Africa--East London
Greece--Thessalonikē
Gaza Strip
Danube River
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1944-09-02
1944-09-06
1944-09-10
1944-09-12
1944-09-13
1944-09-14
1944-09-17
1944-09-19
1944-09-21
1944-09-26
1944-10-04
1944-10-05
1944-10-09
1944-10-10
1944-10-11
1944-10-12
1944-11-01
1944-11-04
1944-11-05
1944-11-06
1944-11-08
1944-11-10
1944-11-16
1944-11-17
1944-11-18
1944-11-19
1944-11-22
1944-11-25
1944-11-26
1944-12-11
1944-12-13
1944-12-14
1944-12-15
1944-12-16
1944-12-19
1944-12-26
1944-12-27
1945-01-03
1945-01-05
1945-01-15
1945-01-20
1945-01-21
40 Squadron
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
B-24
C-47
Defiant
mine laying
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Resistance
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/10273/MBrileyWG1586825-151009-03.1.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Briley, William George
George Briley
W G Briley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Briley, WG
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer William George Briley (1586825, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and a sight log book containing <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/987">18 target photographs</a>. After training in South Africa, George Briley completed 39 bombing and supply dropping operations as a navigator with 40 Squadron flying Wellingtons from Foggia in Italy. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by William George Briley and catalogued by Barry Hunter, <span>with additional identification provided by the Archeologi dell'Aria research group (</span><a href="https://www.archeologidellaria.org/">https://www.archeologidellaria.org</a><span>)</span>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[underlined] 40 Sqdn in No3 Group with Wellingtons in 1940 or 41 [/underlined]
[underlined] Towards the end of 1941 40 Sqdn moved to Malta [/underlined]
[underlined] Moved to Egypt early in 1942 into 205 Grp. [/underlined]
[underlined] Moving to North Africa & eventually Italy [/underlined]
Joined 40 Sqdn in Foggia Italy in Aug 1944 1st flight 30/8/44 & 1st OP. 1st Sept 1944 & last [indecipherable word] (39) 21 Jan 1945 Book says last 13 March '44
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
William George Briley's service
Description
An account of the resource
A listing of William George Briley's operational stations and squadrons.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One handwritten sheet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MBrileyWG1586825-151009-03
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Africa
Egypt
Great Britain
Italy
Malta
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Dianne Kinsella
3 Group
40 Squadron
Wellington
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
OIL’S WELL
by
Ted ‘Jasper’ Neale
The Ploesti oilfields in Romania, being Hitler’s only source of oil, were naturally an important target. The name itself meant to us in the Mediterranean theatre what Berlin meant to the Blighty crews.
My squadron was part of 205 Group, ex Western Desert and now based in Foggia in middle Italy. The group comprised six squadrons of Mk 10 Wimpeys, one British and two SAAF Liberator squadrons, and a Halifax pathfinder squadron: a maximum effort of 120 aircraft.
We set course on the six hour trip to Ploesti. I was now flying with a gash crew, my former pilot having been killed over Milan I was doing a lot of that on this tour because, although I’d settled in with the flight commander, he was restricted to flying only once in two weeks. It wasn’t the ideal way of developing a cohesive team but it made up for it in variety.
Navigation aids in this area were few and our Gee power was reduced in order not to interfere with the Blighty chain. Consequently, when we had crossed the Adriatic, we porpoised around over the Yugoslavian coast in order to get a last fix and to give us a wind for the onward flight. Then we pressed on across Yugoslavia into Bulgaria and from Bulgaria into Romania. When we crossed the Danube I took another ground speed check. Everything was OK but over on our starboard side towards Bucharest someone had wandered off course into a heavily defended area and was being punished for the mistake. Now it was time for me to go up front with my pencil and clipboard. I connected my parachute to a hook and grasped the leather strap to pull open the door to the [deleted] bomb-aimer’s compartment [/deleted] [inserted] second dicky position [/inserted]. It wouldn’t budge: I pulled harder and the strap broke. I called the bomb-aimer to come back and kick the door open; at the same moment the pilot reported that he had full right aileron on but was still flying left wing low. I quickly realised that this was causing the aircraft’s geodetic frame to twist which, in turn, accounted for the door jamming. As I was right beside the fuel clocks I pressed the buttons which revealed that the port tanks were full and the starboard ones three-quarters empty. I shot back to the main spar and turned on the balance cocks which connected both sets of tanks. When I returned to the front the door was open – we were now beginning the run up to the target. At this moment we were hit by the master blue which was quickly followed by many more searchlights and then the flak started hosepiping. The skipper put the nose right down and we went flat out – the ASI needle went past the 300 mph mark and the bomb-aimer let go our cookies. I saw the chimneys of the Romano-Americano refinery looming up as we levelled off at only a couple of hundred feet, then we were safely through and turned for home. We recommenced breathing.
Obviously the top brass weren’t expecting that these raids could ever be effective enough to stop the production of oil
1
[page break]
altogether, so they were coupled with attacks on the supply lines from the oilfields into Germany.
On one such a mission we were on our way to bomb marshalling yards in Hungary. Soon after take-off the pilot reported that something seemed to be wrong with the plane’s handling, so I went back to inspect the control rods aft of the Elsan closet but could see nothing wrong. Soon after, the skipper reported that things were now back to normal and concluded that we had been so close behind another aircraft that we had been collecting its prop-wash. After that the outward trip was uneventful till we were over Hungary when a peculiar thing happened. The rear gunner reported that he could see a JU 88 sliding just underneath us but that he couldn’t get his guns to bear on the intruder. Our skipper tipped the Wimpy to port and then to starboard and we all had a look at it. Sure enough there it was on the same heading and speed as us just sitting there, rather like those fish that swim under the bellies of sharks. He stayed there for a while then pulled away. A short time later the rear gunner reported that it was back again, same tactics and still outside his arc of fire. As before, it remained underneath us for a while then broke away and disappeared.
We were all puzzled. He surely wasn’t just admiring the Wimpy’s belly and equally certainly he wasn’t sheltering from the rain because it wasn’t raining at the time. At the very least you would have thought that he would have realised that he was in eminent danger of one of us emptying the contents of the Elsan on him.
Time passed and then the blighter was seen coming in for the third time but this one was for real – an orthodox beam attack with forward guns firing but our skipper knew how to deal with that. After some skilful evasive action on our part the JU 88 flew off never to reappear.
It wasn’t until 1988 that I discovered, quite by chance, the answer to the mystery. It seems that the Germans had fitted some JU 88’s with upward firing cannons which had proved to be very successful. I can imagine the German crew on this occasion, swearing away while they tried to cure the malfunction which prevented them from sending us to oblivion; but their misfortune was our lucky break.
Nevertheless I’ve often wondered why we were not told of this development at the time.
[page break]
1
We were on our way to bomb marshalling yards in Hungary, to interrupt the flow of Rumanian oil to Germany. I was odd bods with a gash crew, since my Pilot had been lost on his second dicky trip. [deleted]On the way out [/deleted] The crew were all second tour bods (apart from myself), and were Bombing leader, Wireless leader Gunnery leader and the Pilot was deputy flight commander. Soon after take-off the pilot reported his controls were locked and he felt something was wrong. I was nearest so I went aft to inspect the control rods
[page break]
2/
aft of the Elsan and could see no fault, however the Pilot reported that everything was normal. It seemed that we must have been close behind another aircraft and were collecting his prop wash.
We were over Hungary when the rear gunner reported that he could see a JU 88 sliding underneath us and quite close, although he couldn’t get his guns to bear. The pilot tipped the [deleted] air [/deleted] Wimpy to port and then to starboard and we had a look at it. I was beside the Pilot and the Bomb aimer at his Bomb panel could see it. We felt quite
[page break]
3
Safe leaving him there, but eventually he pulled away. After a short time he was seen to be sliding in from the starboard side again once again outside the range of the rear gunner, he stayed around for a while and then left. A little later I was looking out along the starboard wing when I saw guns firing, it seemed that that our friend was making a beam attack. I ducked behind the cloth covering of the Wimpy for protection, while we took evasive action. We carried on and completed our “op” and returned to base.
[page break]
4
In 1988 I learned that the Germans used JU 88’s with upward firing cannons were very successful with its use. I can imagine the German crew swearing away while trying to cure the malfunction.
Ted Neale
Jasper in the R.A.F.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Oil's Well
by Ted 'Jasper' Neale
Description
An account of the resource
Discusses in detail an operation to attack the Ploesti oilfields in Romania. At that time he was based in Foggia, Italy. They had an issue with the airframe of the Wellington twisting due to a mismatch in the fuel tanks. On another operation a control issue was traced to propwash from another aircraft. On another operation a Ju 88 flew underneath them twice but its guns were stuck. It wasn't until 1988 that he discovered that the Ju88 had upward firing guns. Includes handwritten notes.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ted Neale
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two typewritten sheets and four handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BNealeETHNealeETHv030001,
BNealeETHNealeETHv030002,
BNealeETHNealeETHv040001,
BNealeETHNealeETHv040002,
BNealeETHNealeETHv040003,
BNealeETHNealeETHv040004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
South African Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Romania
Romania--Ploiești
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Govert J. van Lienden
B-24
bombing
Gee
Halifax
Ju 88
Pathfinders
sanitation
Wellington
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
I am enclosing a copy of all the photographs that I have taken on 37 Sqdn, I have given a description on the back of each one. I shall give an account of events leading up to the raid on “PARDUBICE” and how the crew was formed.
As a “NAVIGATOR” I hade my flying training in “SOUTH AFRICA” at a training school in “PORT ELIZABETH”., there were about 26 of us on my course, there was also the same number of “BOMB AIMERS’ training with us. When the course finished and we paraded to receive our flying brevet and our sergeants stripes ([symbol]) we were told to report back to our classrooms, where we were told that half of us would be going to the “MIDDLE EAST” while the other half would be going back to “ENGLAND”. Playing cards were given out, and those with the lowest numbers would be going to the “MIDDLE EAST” while the rest would be going “HOME to ENGLAND’. We all boarded a train for “DURBAN”. Some of our group went by “SUNDERLAND” flying boat to the “MIDDLE EAST”, others went overland by truck all the way up “AFRICA”, while others of us went by boat, a very old, worn out ship by the name of “SS POLASKI”, a dirty old coal burner. We all eventually arrived in “CAIRO”, where half left for “JERUSALEM” in ‘PALESTINE”, from there we were sent to “O.T.U”, operational training unit, where we were to form in to crews and to train on the aircraft which we were to use on operations, in this case “WELLINGTONS”. About 60 or so aircrew were assembled and told to form into crews of five members, one gunner, one wireless operator, one bomb-aimer, one pilot, and one navigator. It seemed to be left to the navigator to pick a crew so I picked “LEN CROUCHER” as bomb-aimer since I had trained with him in “SOUTH AFRICA”, he was a “LONDONER” as I was, and he was an excellent piano player, next was a gunner, “BERT CANNON” also a “LONDONER”, then a wireless operator “MAC McNULTY” also a “LONDONER”, then a pilot, ALEC HART who was an “AUSTRALIAN” from QUEENSLAND.
We became competent as a crew and finished the course successfully.
[page break]
From O.T.U. (QUASTINA) we went for two weeks leave to “ALEXANDRIA” then went back to “CAIRO”.
We flew by “DAKOTA” to “POMIGLIANO” airfield near “NAPLES”, then by truck to “PORTICCI” an old dirty warehouse used as a transit centre.
After some-time we left “PORTICCI” by truck and crossed the mountains (APPENINES) to the “ADRIATIC” side of “ITALY”, namely “FOGGIA”, passing through a well bombed or shelled area we drove up a dirt track, to find ourselves in an “OLIVE” grove with a “VINEYARD” off to one side.
This was “TORTORELLA”, it resembled a rubbish tip, old cans, petrol drums, broken battery trolleys, old “NISSEN” hut, trenches dug at random all around, half full of water & diesel oil, and a collection of ridge tents, looking ancient & bleached by the sun, they had obviously been brought up from the desert when the squadron moved up. We were all assembled and the adjutant told us that there were no stores and we would have to fend for ourselves, which was not a promising start to squadron life.
The procedure was to send the new pilots on an operation, with an experienced crew, to gain flak & fighter experience, this was about the second day after arriving. My pilot went off with a very experienced crew who it was said were on their last operation (40th). In the event there was a collision over the target (MILAN) and there were no survivors from the two crews. [inserted] Including my Pilot [/inserted]
The next night I was ordered to join a crew whose “NAVIGATOR” had gone sick, this crew had trained with ours in “PALESTINE” so they were not strangers, this trip was marked by a problem with the photographic flash which had to be jettisoned, this meant that we didn’t get a photograph of the target. Our next operation was with my crew together with a “SOUTH AFRICAN” pilot who had “baled” out over enemy territory and had escaped back to the squadron, this operation was to an oil refinery at “SMEDEREVO”, and the flak was quite light. The next operation was the “Pardubice” oil refinery and I am enclosing my log for that raid, it was a
[page break]
long trip so two of our three bomb bay were taken up with overload fuel tanks, leaving room for just three five hundred pound bombs and two two hundred and fifty pound bombs. The log shows that there was enemy activity on route both toward and away from the target. Before we reached the target it was my duty as “Navigator” to go forward and stand beside the pilot and record on a clipboard the events that were occurring at the target, including the height & course & speed of the aircraft and the time of the bombing and any visible ground feature. About 1/2 an hour from the target, we saw AIR TO AIR gun fire, and then an aircraft going down in flames, this proved to be one of our Wellingtons, which went down and finished up in a lake, there were no survivors and all stayed at the bottom of the lake when the site was excavated some 50 yrs later.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ted Neale's training and early operational experiences
Description
An account of the resource
An account by Ted Neale of his training in South Africa, subsequent further training in Jerusalem, crew selection and transfer to Italy. He relates early experiences on operations - including Shederevo oil refinery - and losing a Wellington to enemy aircraft. during the Pardubice oil refinery operation.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ted Neale
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BNealeETHNealeETHv070001,
BNealeETHNealeETHv070002,
BNealeETHNealeETHv070003
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Czech Republic--Pardubice
South Africa
South Africa--Port Elizabeth
Italy
Italy--Pomigliano d'Arco
Italy--Portici
Italy--Foggia
Israel
Czech Republic
Middle East--Jerusalem
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Frank Batten
37 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
military living conditions
navigator
Nissen hut
Operational Training Unit
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1246/16339/LCannonHO1802390v1.2.pdf
02d1cc01bf3ac2be0e21622c8fc94ce7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
H O Cannon’s observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observer’s and air gunner’s flying log book for H O Cannon (1802390) air gunner, covering the period from 29 December 1943 to 3 November 1944 and from 16 October 1952 to 8 October 1953. He was stationed at RAF Moffatt, RAF Qastina, RAF Tortorella, RAF Upwood and RAF Hemswell. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Wellington, Defiant and Lincoln. He flew a total of 28 operations with 37 Squadron 3 daylight and 25 night and 2 supply drops. Targets were, Brod Basanki, Smederavo, Romsa, Pardubice, Bucharest, Ploesti, Pesaro, Portes les Valences, Szombathely, Kraljevo, Genoa, Marseilles, St. Valentin, Miskolc, Bologna, Ravenna, Rimini, Hegyeashalom, San Benedetto, Borovnica, Tuzla, Ficarolo, Uzice, Klopot. His pilots on operations were Sergeant Reynolds, Major Bayford, Sergeant Merrick and Flight Sergeant Taylor.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LCannonHO1802390v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Austria
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Czech Republic
France
Great Britain
Hungary
Italy
Middle East
Romania
Serbia
Slovenia
Zimbabwe
Austria--Sankt Valentin
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Tuzla
Croatia--Rijeka
Croatia--Slavonski Brod
Czech Republic--Pardubice
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Lincolnshire
France--Marseille
France--Valence (Drôme)
Hungary--Hegyeshalom
Hungary--Miskolc
Hungary--Szombathely
Italy--Bologna
Italy--Foggia
Italy--Ficarolo
Italy--Genoa
Italy--Pesaro
Italy--Ravenna
Italy--Rimini
Italy--San Benedetto del Tronto
Middle East--Palestine
Romania--Bucharest
Serbia--Kraljevo (Kraljevo)
Serbia--Smederevo
Serbia--Užice
Slovenia--Borovnica
Romania--Ploiești
Zimbabwe--Gweru
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1952
1953
1944-07-14
1944-07-15
1944-07-16
1944-07-17
1944-07-19
1944-07-20
1944-07-21
1944-07-22
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-26
1944-07-27
1944-07-28
1944-07-30
1944-07-31
1944-08-03
1944-08-04
1944-08-07
1944-08-08
1944-08-09
1944-08-10
1944-08-13
1944-08-14
1944-08-15
1944-08-20
1944-08-21
1944-08-22
1944-08-23
1944-08-24
1944-08-25
1944-08-27
1944-09-12
1944-09-18
1944-09-20
1944-09-21
1944-09-22
1944-09-26
1944-09-30
1944-10-31
1944-11-04
1944-11-05
1944-11-06
1944-11-16
1944-11-23
1944-12-03
148 Squadron
37 Squadron
97 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
Defiant
Lincoln
RAF Hemswell
RAF Upwood
training
Wellington
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
MAJOR DFC. M.i.D. TEL No 2240 MARBLE HALL
SERVICE No 203571V. RANK AT TIME Lt
DATE OF JUMP 10-5-44 37 SQN. WELLINGTON
OTHER CREW MEMBERS
Lt. T. HENDERSON (SAAF) NAV ESCAPED
Sgt NORRIS B/A POW
“ SCULLY W/OP POW
F/O J.A. MCQUEEN A/G POW.
MISSION LEGHORN. LOCATION OF INCIDENT
[underlined] ANCONA [/underlined]
LANDED NEAR NERETO. TORTORETTO
[underlined] Sth OF ANCONA [/underlined]
INJURIES SUSTAINED. KNEE & BACK STRAINS
OTHERWISE O.K.
GENERAL ACCOUNT. ESCAPE.
STARBOARD ENGINE ON FIRE, 65 miles to go to cross front line. then south of PESCARA ON ADRIATIC COAST & ROME ON MEDSIDE, also running out of fuel. Decided to bale [sic] out. all landed safely (this I heard months later) except that SCULLY broke a leg. Navigator managed to esape [sic] as front line moved up, rest of crew caught & end up in STALAG LUFT [circled 3]. I landed among peasants, who although frightened of harbouring me, fed me as best they could (MARIA STAFFILANI) THEY were fearful
[page break]
[circled 2]. of the Germans & the consequences of being caught helping me. Stay low for a couple of weeks & met up with an English army corporal who was captured at Tobruk. (I cannot recall his name). We contacted some Italians & bought a rowing boat for cash plus (“YOUR” parachute. Before parting with the chute I cut out 2 panels which I wrapped round my body under my shirt. These together with the rip cord ladle are still in my possession (and treasured).
Having acquired the boat we were going to row 65 miles. After 4 miles we had to make for shore, we were making water.
We landed at GUILIANOVA where we eventually contacted the so called patriots, we stayed in town with the local fisherman & MAYOR ([indecipherable word]) [indecipherable letters] ATTILLIO BATTISTELLI. Whilst then we heard that Rome had fallen on JUNE 4 & D Day had
[page break]
[circled 3] started on June 6.
Whilst there I met an Italian who owned a small fishing vessel. he said that he intended sailing south. GUILIANOVA being riddled with Germans was a place I wanted to get out of, so talked the Italian into taking me with him. When it was time to depart I was saddled with 3 AUSTRIAN Teenage conscripts who [deleted] wanted to desert [/deleted] [inserted] had [/inserted] deserted from the German Army, and handed their equipment to the PATRIOTS.
We wended our way down through the lines, lazing on the beaches, sunbathing etc. we sailed down & eventually landed at ORTONA south of PESCARA. (2 weeks after baling out) After a long tedious affair with
[page break]
[circled 4] the carabinieri we met a British Transport officer & boarded a cattle truck to BARI from there by train to NAPLES (3 B.P.D). IN NAPLES proceeded to the P. O W camp outside the city & handed over the 3 Austrian Kids. I was assured they would be well treated.
After more hassle I returned to 37 sqdn at Foggia & completed a tour of 34 trips.
My wife’s pride & joy (your golden little [indecipherable word]) is still in her possession
[page break]
[underlined] 5 [/underlined]
F.A. NORRIS
TIGNE COTTAGE
LYBSTER
CAITHNESS SCOTLAND
H.V. SCULLY.
2. CHELWOOD AVE
BROADGREEN
LIVERPOOL 16
LANCASHIRE.
[deleted] T [/deleted] J.A. McQUEEN
5378 STALAG LUTL 3
BELARIA GERMANY
T. HENDERSON
MOOIRNER
NATAL 3300
R of. S.A.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Italian war memories
Description
An account of the resource
Ted Neale describes the aircrew and circumstances leading to their baling out near Nereto, Tortoreto, Italy. Some of the crew were captured, but Ted was sheltered by local people. He met up with an English army corporal and travelled by boat to Giulianova. From here, now with three Austrian teenage deserters, they went by boat to Ortona, eventually ended up at Naples where he returned to his squadron at Foggia.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ted Neale
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0020001,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0020002,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0020003,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0020004,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0020005
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
South African Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Giulianova
Italy--Ortona
Italy--Naples
Italy--Foggia
Italy--Tortoreto
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-05-10
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
David Bloomfield
37 Squadron
aircrew
bale out
evading
fear
heirloom
prisoner of war
Stalag Luft 3
Wellington
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
We had arrived at PORTICI to the South of Naples, [inserted] staying [/inserted] in a dirty old multi Storied warehouse, with a view of Vesuvias [sic] one side, a view across Naples [deleted] Boy [/deleted] BAY the other, next to a military prison (“glasshouse”), with a constant queue of young local children, lining up to share out our swill bin. We had arrived as crews from O.T.U’s in PALESTINE via CAIRO, courtesy of USAAF DAKOTAS, awaiting postings to 205GP, six Wimpey squadrons on the ADRIATIC side of ITALY, on the FOGGIA plains, on the far side of the APPENINES. Rome had just been liberated so my Australian pilot, a Canadian pilot that he had trained with in Canada, and myself, decided to go and have a looksee. Out to the AUTOSTRADA, [indecipherable word] at the ready and in no time we were on the back of a 6 x 4 G.M.C. heading NORTH. We had a BLACK AMERICAN for company, he introduced himself as JESSE OVENS [sic] the Athlete who had enraged HITLER by winning 5 or 6 GOLD medals at the BERLIN OLYMPIC. We also had for company about six 250lb bombs, unsecured
[page break]
[circled] 2 [/circled]. & rolling around the floor. Along & through Cassino where not one brick stood upon another, and other not so pretty sights, we made ROME. Stayed one night is a bug ridden HOTEL, half the night chasing bugs with lighted candles, dropping hot wax on them to immobilise them. Sightseeing & joining various AMERICAN chow lines to assuage our hunger, being thrown off when they realised we werent [sic] one of theirs, we stayed three days then made our way back to NAPLES.
We crossed the montains [sic] in our trucks in a continuous line of vehicles, mostly with HELL DRIVERS headboards, all Americans cigars clamped in their teeth & one foot hanging out of the door. to “FOGGIA” where sixteen or so crews were distributed around 3 airfields with 2 squadrons on each.
My Squadron 37 shared with 70 sqdn and the other side of the airfield was
[page break]
[circled] 3 [/circled] taken up by the 99th Bomb Group B17 Fortresses of the 15th Air force.
After a couple of days sorting out our tents etc the pilots were sent off on their experience trip, my pilot went down over MILAN with a South African crew on their 40, tour [indecipherable word] trip, no survivors. One other of the pilots got hit in the hip by a cannon shell & went [deleted] T [/deleted] back to Canada. Our crew became headless and I was stood in to a crew whose NAVIGATOR went sick it was piloted by the CANADIAN that I had been up to ROME with, his first operation and mine, we had pandemonium when the photo flash started to misbehave, but we survived. Then a South Africa Lieutent [sic] pilot who had baled out over Nth Italy rowed back along the coast, bringing back to AUSTRIAN (GERMAN) Soldiers who didn’t want to
[page break]
[circled] 4 [/circled] fight any more. Since the “A” flight commander had a full length plaster on his leg and could barely move, they made this South African up to Captain & he became “A” flight commander (there being no one else) he then took over my crew and we were complete.
Being Flight Commander he was only allowed to fly spasmodically so I was still called on to do odd boding. Another duty was to collect people from the glasshouse in PORTICI who had gone AWOL and absconded to NAPLES, I would be taken to the taxi track in the Captain’s V8 Woody Ford to await the Foggia Ferry Mail plane, a old decommisioned [sic] B17.
[page break]
[underlined] 5 [/underlined]. which toured around carrying mail & odd bods like myself, the old Fortreess [sic] rolled out, stopped with a loud brake squeal, a door would open & I would pile in & get where I could, then over to Pomigliano at NAPLES, thumb down to the Glasshouse & sign out the prisoner, and if there were no more flights we would sleep on the floor of the MALCOLM club for the night with the prisoner & carry on the next day. They issued me with a revolver but no bullets, more for my own protection than anything else, but I had no problems, they were glad to be getting over it, living in the slum of NAPLES.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ted Neale's memories of serving in Italy
Description
An account of the resource
Ted arrived in Portici, south of Naples from training in Palestine. He recalls a trip to Rome driven by Jesse Owens, the Olympic athlete. Afterwards he was transferred to Foggia to join 37 Squadron. There was a shortage of crews and he did not fly regularly. Ted comments on what happened to various aircrew.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ted Neale
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0210001,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0210002,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0210003,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0210004,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0210005
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Royal Canadian Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
South African Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Italy--Rome
Italy--Cassino
Italy--Portici
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
37 Squadron
70 Squadron
Absent Without Leave
aircrew
B-17
military living conditions
military service conditions
navigator
Operational Training Unit
prisoner of war
sport
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1246/16397/MNealeETH1395951-150731-0570001.2.jpg
3325993839b18a80b3d313e04f3c9ed9
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1246/16397/MNealeETH1395951-150731-0570002.2.jpg
3a8a0d8da578da1a602e968d0ad493e6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1246/16397/MNealeETH1395951-150731-0570003.2.jpg
a585ceb4b919a2a6f360dabcfbbf29ed
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
OPERATIONS RECORD BOOK
OF NO. 37 SQUADRON R.A.F., M.A.A.F.
ITALY
TORTORELLA
21/22 JULY 1944
[Underlined] OPERATIONS – PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY [/Underlined]
THIS WAS THE SQUADRON’S /AND 205 GROUP’S (sic)/ FIRST VISIT TO CZECHOSLOVAKIA. TWELVE AIRCRAFT WERE DETAILED:
S/LDR. FORSYTH DID NOT OPERATE OWING TO A LEAK IN AN OVERLOAD TANK, AND SGT TAYLOR RETURNED EARLY OWNING TO A STOPPAGE IN OVERLOAD FEED SYSTEM. P/O NEWMARCH WITH F/LT VAIZEY, THE SQUADRON NAVIGATION OFFICER FLYING AS NAVIGATIOR, FAILED TO RETURN. NINE AIRCRAFT BOMBED ON T.I’S DROPPING 27X500LB MCTD. 025 AND 18X250LB GPTI AT 0034/0048 HOURS FROM 8000/9000 FEET. THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE GROUND HAZE, AND LITTLE RESULT WAS SEEN FROM BOMBING. PHOTOS ARE MOSTLY PLOTTED 2 MILES N.E OF TARGET /THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF PARDUBICE TOWN/, WHERE BOTH GREEN AND RED T.I’S WONT (sic) DOWN.
THERE WAS NO FLAK AT TARGET, BUT CONSIDERABLE SOARCHLIGHT (sic) AND FLAK ACTIVITY WAS ENCOUNTERED ON ROUTE, NOTABLY AT ZAGREE, MARIBOR, VIENNA AREA, BRNO AND GRAZ ON RETURN. MANY FIGHTERS OR FIGHTER FLARES WERE SEEN OR ENCOUNTERED FROM WELL SOUTH OF VIENNA, INTO THE TARGET AND BACK SOUTH OF VIENNA, AND IT IS PROBABLE THAT LOSSES WOULD HAVE BEEN HEAVIOR (sic) BUT FOR THE FACT THAT THE NIGHT WAS VERY DARK AND MOONLESS.
[Underlined] AIRCRAFT CREWS REPORT [/Underlined]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk.X – LP 257
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/R, BUT NO RESULTS WERE SEEN, OWING TO CONSIDERABLE GROUND HAZE.
Page break
[insert] J [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X –
DETAILED TO ATTACK THE OIL REFINERY AT PARDUBICE. TARGET BOMBED ON TI/R, AND BURSTS WERE SEEN. OTHER BOMBING REPORTED AS BOMBING HAPHAZARD.
[insert] H [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X – LN 855
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/R, BUT NO RESULTS WERE SEEN, OWING TO CONSIDERABLE GROUND HAZE.
[insert] I [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.MK. X -
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARADUBICE OIL REFINERY. RETURNED EARLY OWING TO A STOPPAGE IN THE OVERLOAD FEED SYSTEM. BOMBS WERE JETTISONED BEFORE RETURNING TO BASE.
Page break
[insert] B [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X - LN 799
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/R, BUT NO RESULTS WERE SEEN. TWO FIRES WERE SEEN IN TARGET AREA.
[insert] C [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X - LN 800
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/R, BUT NO RESULTS WERE ONSERVED. SMOKE WAS SEEN FROM THE TARGET AREA, BUT NO FIRES.
[insert] D [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.MK. X - LN 259
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/R, BUT NO RESULTS WERE SEEN, OWING TO CONSIDERABLE HAZE. BOMBING REPORTED IN SAME AREA, BUT VERY SCATTERED.
[insert] E [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X - LN 521
DETAILED TO ATTACK THE OIL REFINERY AT PARDUBICE. THIS A/C FAILED TO RETURN FROM THIS OPERATION.
[insert] H? (sic) [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X -
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/G, AND BURSTS SEEN ACROSS N.E CORNER. CREW REPORTED BIG RED GLOW AND MUCH SMOKE IN TARGET AREA.
[insert] F [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X - LN 989
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/R, BUT NO RESULTS WERE SEEN, OWING TO CONSIDERABLE HAZE.
[insert] G [/insert]
V. WELLINGTON B.Mk. X - LN 502
DETAILED TO ATTACK PARDUBICE OIL REFINERY. BOMBED TARGET ON TI/R, BUT NO RESULTS WERE OBSERVED.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Operations - Pardubice Oil Refinery
Description
An account of the resource
Operations Record Book of 37 Squadron detailing an operation to the Pardubice Oil Refinery, from Tortorella, Italy on 21/22 July 1944. Twelve Wellingtons took part and there are summaries of each aircraft's activity.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-07-22
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three typewritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0570001,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0570002,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0570003
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Czech Republic
Czech Republic--Pardubice
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Austria--Graz
Slovenia--Maribor
Austria
Slovenia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-07-21
1944-07-22
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Laura Morgan
37 Squadron
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1246/16786/MNealeETH1395951-150731-103.2.jpg
480d1f16fb7cf376629f24c01a037ad1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Temporary Pass
Description
An account of the resource
A temporary pass issued to Ted Neale. It gives him permission for one week's leave between 23rd and 30th August 1944 from RAF Tortorella
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-08-23
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One typewritten sheet with handwritten annotations
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MNealeETH1395951-150731-103
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-08
aircrew
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1276/17297/LOpenshawB19211117v1.2.pdf
1b306fc5afb7e26849ecbcaf2a8df46f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Openshaw, Benjamin
B Openshaw
Openshaw, Ben
Description
An account of the resource
Contains 89 items concerning Flying Officer Benjamin Openshaw who after training as a navigator/observer in Southern Rhodesia and England, flew with 104 Squadron in Italy. Collection consists of training notes, official personnel documents, his flying and navigation sight logbooks and photographs of people, places and aircraft. There is also a sub-collection consisting of target photographs in Italy and the Balkans as well as celebrities and London landmarks.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Kevin Angell and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-04-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Openshaw, B
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
B Openshaw sight log book
Description
An account of the resource
Record of training navigation star and sun sights from ground and air between April 1943 and February 1944. Locations April to July 1943 at 24 bombing gunnery and navigation school at Moffat Southern Rhodesia on Anson aircraft. December 1943 at No 23 air observers school at RAF Millom and January and February 1944 at 15 OTU RAF Harwell. Flying log book for B Openshaw, Navigator, covering the period from 2 April 1943 to 6 July 1946. Detailing his flying training, Operations flown and post war flying with East African communications flight. He was stationed at RAF Moffat, RAF Harwell, RAF Oakley, RAF Westcott, RAF Foggia, RAF Aqir and RAF Eastleigh. Aircraft flown in were, Anson, Oxford, Wellington, Hudson, Mosquito, Curtis Commando and Dakota. He flew a total of 23 operations with 104 squadron, 6 Daylight, 6 night bombing operations and 11 supply drops. His pilot on operations was Flying Officer Chadwick. Targets were, Zagreb, Zsombachely, Sarajevo, Vicenza, Novi Pazar, Latisana, Klopot, Majevo, Matesavo, Piave, Cromelt, Circhina, Tuzla and Trieste.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
B Openshaw
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943
1944
1945
1946
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Front cover and twenty nine page log book
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Training material
Text. Service material
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MOpenshawB19211117-180404-02
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Berkshire
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cumbria
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Sarajevo
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Tuzla
Croatia
Croatia--Zagreb
Hungary
Hungary--Szombathely
Israel
Israel--Ramlah
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Italy--Latisana
Italy--Susegana
Italy--Trieste
Italy--Vicenza
Kenya
Kenya--Nairobi
Montenegro
Montenegro--Kolašin Region
Montenegro--Podgorica
Serbia
Serbia--Novi Pazar
Slovenia
Slovenia--Cerkno
Slovenia--Črnomelj
Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe--Gweru
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1946
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Cara Walmsley
104 Squadron
15 OTU
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
Bombing and Gunnery School
C-47
Hudson
Mosquito
navigator
observer
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Aqir
RAF Harwell
RAF Millom
RAF Oakley
RAF Westcott
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20161/PSeaggerA16010009.2.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20161/PSeaggerA16010010.2.jpg
53a218dc6ce5b3df355c26d507cfa472
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Palazzo degli Uffici Statali of Foggia
Description
An account of the resource
A government building in Foggia. In front is a roundabout with a few pedestrians. On the reverse 'Foggia Roundabout'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010009, PSeaggerA16010010
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20163/PSeaggerA16010012.2.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20163/PSeaggerA16010013.2.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Malcolm Club, Foggia
Description
An account of the resource
A street scene outside the Malcolm Club at Foggia, via Duomo. The cathedral is partially visible. On the reverse 'Foggia By side of Malcolm Club'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010012, PSeaggerA16010013
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20226/PSeaggerA16010057.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20226/PSeaggerA16010058.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20226/PSeaggerA16010059.1.jpg
86cb1a0be5f71fb7ff968b8c78941e17
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Foggia street scenes
Description
An account of the resource
Piazza XX Settembre with San Francesco Saverio church.
On the reverse 'Foggia View from Malcolm Club'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two b/w photographs
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010057,
PSeaggerA16010058,
PSeaggerA16010059
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20256/PSeaggerA16010102.2.jpg
c141e5c5b88950c086c786d8b8cbd509
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rodi Garganico
Description
An account of the resource
Rodi Garganico seen from the railway near the sea. In front is a sandy beach.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010102
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20257/PSeaggerA16010103.2.jpg
6933facaa3f5b4c8defd96e25d5d233c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Rodi Garganico street scene
Description
An account of the resource
A street scene with the Madonna della Libera shrine in the distance. No pedestrians.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010103
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20266/PSeaggerA16010112.1.jpg
fed182f279d8f8ee917ffc96b3ea69ee
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20266/PSeaggerA16010113.1.jpg
eec8ac0a31421d93f0f8a74b1f90a803
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Market place, Foggia
Description
An account of the resource
A busy market scene with a lot of people and market stalls. On the reverse 'Foggia Market Place'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010112,
PSeaggerA16010113
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20270/PSeaggerA16010119.1.jpg
d7bc572e4afd35cb876bdb559f88f1cf
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20270/PSeaggerA16010120.1.jpg
d7426f3a1e14cd6009fc7f41afd810f1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Monumento ai caduti
Description
An account of the resource
Three figures on a plinth surrounded by a stone balustrade with an inward looking statue on each corner. It is in the grounds of the Police Barracks. On the reverse 'Foggia'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010119,
PSeaggerA16010120
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20285/PSeaggerA16010131.2.jpg
9fee2ad9fa431f52979c604c310f0ef7
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1323/20285/PSeaggerA16010132.2.jpg
8c78b79c63c8a235ea2aa7fc0c4a2e39
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Seagger, Alan. Album 01 General
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Seagger, A
Description
An account of the resource
89 photographs of scenery, aircraft and service life taken in Italy and the Middle East.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Porta Arpana
Description
An account of the resource
'Tre Archi' archway framing children and pedestrians in a street in Foggia. On the reverse 'Foggia Archway into Market Place'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PSeaggerA16010131, PSeaggerA16010132
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Italy--Foggia
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.