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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Boldy, David
Dave Boldy
D A Boldy
Description
An account of the resource
334 items. The collection concerns Flight Sergeant David Adrian Boldy (1918 – 1942, 923995 Royal Air Force) and consists of his school reports, letters from school and photographs of family and locations in India, letters from training and service, and photographs from his social life and time training. It also includes newspaper cuttings and letters about him being missing in action. David Boldy was born and attended school in India and studied law at Kings College London. He volunteered for the Royal Air Force and trained as an air gunner in South Africa. He flew operations in Manchesters and Lancasters with 207 Squadron from RAF Bottesford. His aircraft failed to return from an operation to Gdańsk 11 July 1942. <br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by David Boldy and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.<br /><br />Additional information on David Boldy is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/102182/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Boldy, DA
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
923995 D. A. Boldy. R.A.F.
U/T Air Gunner,
No [deleted] [indecipherable word] [/deleted] [inserted] 41 [/inserted] Air School,
East London,
20th April, 1941.
My darling Dad,
Thanks very much for your letter. This is only a short note before I go out for the week end. I shall write again during the week.
About East London, it is certainly Africa. I should have thought they would have stuck that down on the cable as the address from which I sent it. Unless of course they just put down East London.
We have exactly two weeks of the course to go. To-day we had the general exam. The last one. I think I made it too. So I am feeling fairly relieved & just in the mood for a good week-end. I have no idea what we do or where we go after the course, but if you don’t hear from me at any time don’t worry as you will know I am in the process of another transfer and cannot write. I have become very attached to this country & will seriously think about coming out here again after the war.
We have done any amount of flying [deleted] [indecipherable word] [/deleted] during the week which has just finished. It has been most
[page break]
interesting. The camera gunning is finished & from Monday the real shooting starts. First from the air to targets on the ground, then air to air shooting i.e. at a target towed by another aircraft & finally a spot of dual flying, i.e. taking over the controls. Though we do not do any landing or taking off.
In the camera guns we first started firing at another aircraft on our tails & then from the side – a beam shot is the term used. Then came aerial combat. In this you are thrown about the sky, loops & flick rolls etc. Meanwhile you do your best to fire at the enemy whenever you get the opportunity. They certainly chuck you around a bit. It is grand fun though a bit of a strain. The strain on a really fast machine must be colossal.
We are getting on excellently with the S. African lads on the course & they hope we go on with them to the next station. I don’t quite know whether I should like to go home or stay on here & go up North, that is leaving family feelings out of it, because naturally there is no place like home.
I take my hat off to the Greeks. They are 100%. The Yugoslaves [sic] put up a good show though the odds were too great for them. Still they went down fighting like men. – I only went out twice during the week as I stayed in to do a spot of work & write some letters. As I haven’t the opportunity to go to town early enough to get my films done I am asking some one to
[page break]
[underlined] 2. [/underlined]
do it for me. & will send them in my letter during the week. Actually I am asking a girl friend to take them into town for me. She is a charming girl & I am going to see her this evening.
Thanks for the Easter Cable, sorry I didn’t send one but [indecipherable word] as we fly till 6 oclock [sic] every evening we cannot get into town earlier enough. I shall be cabling at the earliest opportunity.
Our stay in east London has been a really happy one & we have made a number of good friends. Yesterday I collected the prize for the table tennis 10/- worth of stuff, such as tooth paste, shaving cream cigarettes etc. I believe they are organising another tournament but it will be a handicap affair. The gentleman who ran the show is a friend who I have been out with several times. He says I shall be heavily handicapped. Still it ought to be good fun.
I had a letter from a girl friend in Cape Town the other day. She was a nurse & we met her at Oudtshoorn when she went there for a couple of days holiday. She is a damn nice kid & was awfully good to a couple of us when we first arrived in Cape Town from Oudtshoorn & didn’t know anybody.
We seem to be having a spot of rain again. I
[page break]
hope it clears up as a rainy week end is an awful nuisance. Still even the rain will not damp my spirits to-day, as I am feeling grand more so in view of the fact that our last examination is now done with.
I hope you are getting on well with business. Don’t be too lonely Dad, I am sure better days will soon be here. Don’t worry about your big son. He is in grand form, enjoying both work & play. I hope soon to be doing some good stuff for the country.
No more to-day Dad. Look after yourself. God bless you. Lots of love from your
Ever loving son
[underlined] Dave. [/underlined]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Subject
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World War (1939-1945)
Description
An account of the resource
Letter from Leading Aircraftsman David Boldy to his father about his air gunner / photography course, some of the friends he has made and some comments about Greece and Yugoslavia in the war.
Creator
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David Boldy
Date
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1941-04-20
Language
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eng
Type
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Text. Correspondence
Text
Identifier
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EBoldyDABoldyAD410420
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Greece
South Africa
South Africa--East London
Temporal Coverage
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1941-04
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Title
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Letter from David Boldy to his father
Contributor
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Steve Christian
air gunner
aircrew
love and romance
training
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/110/1080/MBubbGJ1477939-160322-040001.1.jpg
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bubb, George
G J Bubb
Description
An account of the resource
13 items. Collection covers the wartime service of Leading Aircraftsman George Joseph Bubb (b. 1911, 1477909 Royal Air Force), an instrument fitter on 44 Squadron. the collection contains notebooks from training courses, a service bible and 1946 diary as well as the contents of a scrapbook which include personal documents and photographs of people and bombing operations.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Dave Pilsworth and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-22
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Bubb, GJ
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Greek Banknote
Description
An account of the resource
500 drachmai note. Front depicts a Byzantine coin. On the reverse a church.
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Identifier
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MBubbGJ1477939-160322-04
Format
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Banknote
Type
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Physical object
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/6645/ABarfootWE151208.2.mp3
1b5f298e0d48f0992512af90412e5b70
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
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2015-12-08
Identifier
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Barfoot, W
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB. My name is Chris Brockbank and I am with Squadron Leader William Barfoot and we are in Birmingham talking about his very varied experiences in the war. Bill would you like to start off with your early days, where you were born where you were schooled.
WB. I was born in Newcastle upon Tyne so I’m a Geordie, but I was taken to India when I was about six, five or six and I didn’t come back to just before the war. In India I went to that school the Laurence Memorial Royal Military School now called the Laurence School. It em its a military school in that you couldn’t go to the school unless you had been in the British Army or the British Navy, the Air Force wasn’t in great shape at that time, and your parents had to be one of those two. And then er I just had a secondary school education, I left school in 1936 and I went to Bombay University because the intention was to send me to either Oxford or Cambridge, both required Latin in those days and I hadn’t done Latin and I hadn’t done Latin because we done localised languages like Undra. So I went to the University to learn Latin and then eh, differences arose in the family of the financing of the thing so I left India altogether and eh came back to this country, when I came back to this country we [garbled] and so on. As a side line I was invited to stay at some Barracks in Woking, I forget the name of the Barracks now with the Father of two daughters, I eventually married one of them. [laugh]. I was twenty and seventeen, I actually met them in India before I came here, but they were in school and I was at a different school, so we didn’t really get to know each other until I came back to this country and I was seventeen. I was twenty and she was seventeen so that was a dangerous situation. I then got married and later on during the war, it’s the only dish. Incidentally I can’t give dates because we have lost the vital documents that would have given us this information, namely the flying log book and we have moved about four times after I left the Air Force and somewhere it has got lost. At least we haven’t found it yet, this is the point. So I can’t give you dates but I can tell you places I went to. I started off with, oh, I applied for a short service commission and I was accepted but then hostilities broke out. I then got a letter that cancelled the short service commission, so I then joined the Air Force as an Airman at a place I can’t remember now in London. We didn’t do much there except possibly square bashing, we were issued with uniforms and the usual sort of things, and the one, the one point when there, we were all given ten shillings in advance to buy blanco and shoe polish and what have you and it so happened that almost the same week there was a pay parade and we of course had to attend because discipline required it. There, there was a chap called Manning, that’s right. Puffy Manning we called him because he was a bit plump. The drill was of course, the Accounting Officer he would sit at the table and he would have an accounting Airman there. The Airman would call out your name and you would actually, this was the last three numbers of your name, walk up to the desk, salute and collect the money. Well Puffy Manning did all this correctly and the Clerk read out two shillings and sixpence. The Accounting Officer put a half crown on the thing. Puffy Manning tossed it up in the air and it bounced off the table and Puffy Manning said “buy yourself a cigar Sir.” Apparently the Station Warrant Officer nearly fainted and he said “arrest that man” and of course he was taken away to the Guard Room. He was very lucky because his Flight Commander was quite sympathetic and let him off with a caution. So anyway that’s what happened at that place which I can’t remember now. Em after that, where did I go then? Oh went to,” Nigel what’s the name of that place where we came in?”
Nigel “Kidderminster”
WB. Kidderminster, yes where there was a [unreadable] where we did one, to the front salute and all that sort of stuff, sort of bashing. After that I was taken to an airfield called Hullavington which was near Chippenham and over there, it was at the time when there was a fear of German invasion you know Dunkirk was just over. We were issued with obsolescent Canadian rifles and five rounds of ammunition to deal with the invasion of the Germans. Eh, Eh one night an old German aircraft flew over the airfield and scattered a few bombs on the airfield. We then said this is it you know, this is the invasion. So we all rushed out to our appointed positions but then it all went quiet and nothing happened. We stayed there for about two hours and suddenly there was a shot and the Orderly Officer went to see what it was all about. The airman said “I saw a movement down there and challenged him three times, he didn’t answer, so I shot.” He shot a horse, the Farmer was exactly delighted the next day. Anyway that’s what happened at Hullavington.
I worked in the cookhouse funnily enough there and eh [garbled] a parade a [unreadable] parade. I worked in the cookhouse and we were excused the parade. We used to all stand there and present arms with a broom and sing here comes the Air Vice Marshall he’s got lots and lots of rings but only got one arsehole.[laugh] Anyway from there, from Hullavington I then went to Yatesbury eh, and Compton Bassett, both close together and where I trained as a Wireless Operator eh. I was, we flew in Dragons I think or whatever they were called.
CB. Dragon Rapide
WB. That’s right Dragon Rapide, for practice at sending messages and receiving messages on the flight. I don’t know how long the course lasted but it was quite long. I learnt morse, its abolished now, but I tell you what, my morse code. Everybody who learns morse never forgets it and I got up to about twenty two words a minute which was quite good at that time. After Yatesbury and Compton Bassett I then was posted to Digby to Number 46 Squadron, Hurricanes as a Wireless Operator. We did sort of servicing on the Aircraft. The Squadron was then moved down to eh, forgot the name of the place to eh, Sherburn in Elmet which is in Yorkshire. My Squadron moved down there and shortly afterwards they eh, were detailed to go out to the Middle East. I was held back because I had volunteered for Aircrew. I told the admin staff and the next thing was to go down to London to ACRC which we called arsey tarsey of course. You get a written examination, virtually all maths and eh after that I was sent to Downing College in Cambridge where we did our initial training, were we learned the various fundamentals of the various activities in the Air Force. After Cambridge, after that eh, oh my next movement was to the EANS or Elementary Air Navigation School at a place near Brighton. Town near Brighton.
Prompt. Where at Eastbourne.
WB. At Eastbourne, we occupied the Eastbourne Grammar School and eh and that’s where we learned the very early functions of Navigation. After that, which place did I go from there? Oh yes I think it was called Heaton or High Heaton or something like that, it was the holding place for people travelling abroad. And so ah, I was put aboard an aircraft, I have forgotten the name of the ship, they were all Castle ships, something Castle you know and eh. We sailed first to Brazil of all places eh where we went ashore and were made very welcome and eh we crossed over to Capetown and eh we got off at Capetown and went by rail to a place called Grahamstown which is the sort of University town of South Africa where we were made very welcome because most of the people there were of British origin, so we had a lovely time there. Then we began to train Navigation seriously, flying in Ansons with South African Pilots and I forgot how long the course took. I think it took quite a time about six months, I could be wrong eh. I was then Commissioned as a Pilot Officer and we went to another ship of course to cross the Atlantic with the Italian prisoners of war. We put them out in New York and filled the, and filled the boat or ship with American soldiers to come back to the UK. Funnily enough I remember it was the time the Dambusters broke the Dams and the New York papers were full of it and they made a great fuss of us did the Americans. I remember two of them, when I was with a friend and someone stopping me to give me theatre tickets to go in. Incidentally the pound was worth four dollars in those days so it was quite expensive. Anyway we then sailed back to UK I think we went to Greenock I think, I can’t really remember we were given two, two weeks holiday on leave, eh. That’s when I went to, the only days I can remember for that period is the 27th of May Nineteen fift, Nineteen forty three which is of course the date I got married. I subsequently lived with her for sixty nine and a half years and then she died. Then we went back and went to Wigtown which is in Scotland, that was an advanced flying unit we flew in Ansons and then we went to Kinloss. When we went to Kinloss the funny thing that happened we were just turned into a room, a crowd of people, most of whom were Sergeants and told to form Crew em. Inevitably because there were more Sergeants than anything else I ended up in a Crew where I was the only Officer the rest were all Sergeants. We then had a mixed period which I forget. I remember an airfield and a road travelling through it, I can’t remember what the name of the airfield was. And we very shortly found out why we were sent on various courses. I was sent on a Gee course, Gee was then the, the very sensational Navigation Aid. The first time we had anything that was anything like accurate you know sort of like Astro Navigation you were jolly lucky to get ten miles from your accurate position. Where as with Gee you got right to the spot and it was absolutely sensational. The other thing I did during that period I did a map reading course in Tiger Moths at Worcester Race Course and just flew around, very happy times. I got on very well with the Pilot had a go of flying the Tiger Moth but we were all over the place.
The reason being off course, we were being held back for 296 Squadron, which had, was returning from the Middle East and. We were held back because we were going to reinforce them and they were, where were they? Earls Colne that where they reformed. I was made the Squadron Navigation Officer because we only had two Officers amongst the Navigators and This is where we went with Albemarle’s for the first time, we never heard of Albemarle’s before, it was the only aircraft in the RAF that had a tricycle undercarriage and therefore very suitable for glider towing. You know the glider goes off first and then you go off and, and eh we started operating from there [Garbled]. We later moved to Brize Norton and Brize Norton became our permanent base. But we flew from Earls Colne for quite a while. We spent time reinforcing French Resistance Groups but obviously it was a slow process because you had to organise the Group. They also did Norway as well in the Albemarles. The Albemarle was a very bad aircraft for the Navigator because they had forgotten that they needed a Navigator. It had switches all over the place, down there, up there later on when we converted to Halifax’s it was absolute luxury to have all these instruments in front of you. But eh, eh, anyway we flew surprise Resistance Groups, they didn’t come too often because, obviously I had to organise the Groups carefully because the Gestapo were on the lookout all the time. We used to fly round about six thousand feet and then we would have to find the Resistance Group which usually had four torches in a field in the form of an arrow and the bottom line of the arrow would flash a code, Morse code, which we had been given. When we saw that we dropped down to about five hundred feet and dropped the supplies and flew on so the Gestapo didn’t see, the whereas, dropped there and turning away and that’s what we did. We did one or two in Norway as well but Norway was a bit frightening because it was a bit mountainous compared with France.
The other thing was our other function on Special Operations was towing of gliders. It was obvious there was going to be a big glider operation and they needed these Crews trained. The trouble with the, with towing gliders is A. Your speed drops, you get down to Anson speeds and secondly you can’t manoeuvre because you have a glider full of Troops behind you. So when we went on and we did the first one was D day, when you went on these Operations you had a very hairy Fighter Escort. You needed it because you were very vulnerable funnily enough we didn’t lose many because by then we had complete Air Superiority and eh you didn’t get too much interference. We did two other glider operations, one was at Arnhem in Holland and that was a disaster. Not from the air point of view we dropped them all in the right place at the right time. The thing was the Intelligence had not discovered there was a German Armoured Division in Holland and of course our Troops who were Airborne Troops were comparatively lightly armed of course they suffered very heavy casualties and eh. They were supposed to capture the Bridge at Nijmegen so the Second Army I think it was could proceed on and race towards Berlin, but they never got the Bridge of course. As I have said they had very heavy casualties and eh, that was that.
The third operation that we had with gliders was eh, Rhine crossing and we were getting near the end of the war there and eh, the eh, Germans put some of the Troops, in the woods resting from Operations, not too far away and eh so we were detailed for the first time ever to carry bombs. Bye the way we now had converted to Halifax’s for the [unreadable]. We had Albemarle’s for the other two eh, for the Rhine crossing we had Halifax’s which were much better. All your equipment from the Navigator point of view, direct compass everything, everything, APR all the lot was in the one compartment. You could see it all in front of you where as in the Albemarle you were doing this sort of thing. The other advantage of the Halifax, I sat on the escape hole but we didn’t need to use it. We did in fact loose our Rear Gunner, but that was not our aircraft. His friend had a girlfriend in the local village and he had a date with her that night so Jimmy Osall who was our Rear Gunner offered to stand in for him, instead of him, never came back. After that more or less the war was beginning to end then we flew eh, incidentally we did convert to Stirling’s before we went to Halifax’s but fortunately we never used the Stirling. Something I didn’t mention when I spoke about Kinloss, we flew Whitley’s there and, and, it was known as the flying coffin of course and it was a very slow aircraft, only had two engines , it was supposed to be a bomber. We did cross country flying but they didn’t risk sending us on Operations in them because we would never have come back.
Anyway we then flew VIPs, from,who fled to England during the Invasion by and large VIPs we flew them to Oslo. We also flew eh, Concentration Camp survivors to Greece, we did two of those and I think that was the end of the war and I was then posted to, oh yes I was posted to Staff Navigator Course after the war ended and eh and I was posted to when I had done the course, I done that at Shawbury by the way. When I done that course I was, I was em where was I then, oh yes I went to join 242 Squadron it was a Transport Squadron flying to the Far East. Eh, we were stationed at Oakington in Cambridge. Then we were moved to a place near Christchurch, Mosley, Mousley something like that Moseley which upset my Wife quite much because she got really settled in Cambridge and rather liked it and so did I. So I got onto the Navigation Boss, where was he? I have forgotten where he was and I said I wanted to go back to Cambridge. So eh ah they managed to sort it out, so I left 242 Squadron and went back to Cambridge, this time to Waterbeach which was also a Cambridge airfield, or was. Then vacancies were coming up the Air Force was running short, we hadn’t got a third category of Navigator, a specialist Navigator and a specialist Navigator was supposed to liaise with Scientists on possible uses for Navigation purposes. Em so I went on that course, also to Shawbury, Shawbury[unreadable] Empire Navigation School. Was then the central Navigation School for Navigation purposes and that’s where I went for the and then after that I was posted to er, where was it, near Darlington.
Interruption. Middleton St George.
WB. Middleton St George, yes Middleton St George where I was teaching Navigation to Bomb Aimers who had converted to Navigators em and eh. Then after that I then ended up to, to em oh that incidentally is when Nigel was born. I went to, we went to Ceylon where we were stationed at Degummed airfield. Em [unreadable] nothing there and then after about a year in Ceylon I was posted to Singapore and eh in Singapore, I was promoted to Squadron Leader then. I became Airhead Forces Malaya Navigation Representative and eh and advised them on Navigation. What did we do, I did do .The Korean War was on at the same time and some of our aircraft in Malaya were taking part in the war, mostly Flying Boats that were patrolling the seas around Korea. They were having trouble with the long range Navigation aid that the Americans had invented [unreadable] to Gee. They were having trouble with it, so I was sent via Hong Kong out in another Flying Boat to see if they could correct it which I succeeded to do and I flew on ops in Korea in the Flying Boat. And also at the same time we got a Typhoon, or what are the local thingies called, probably call a Tsunami now, which badly damaged one of the Flying Boats. So I got signal back from HQ Malaya to investigate the damage to this Flying Boat. I then came back to the UK, I then came back to Singapore and that’s when I came to the UK.
Then I went to the Air Ministry for about a year and then I was posted to Castle Bromwich as Station Commander. I em, we still had several lodger units there. 7 Police District, an ATC unit and Army AOP Flight, 2605 Fighter Control eh Fighter Exercise. We had several aircraft Austers and AOP Flight I forget what they flew, gliders for the ATC, University Air Squadron, Chipmunk, they were on our eh, my airfield and I think that was about it, the lot of them. Eh after that I was posted, I oh, I did two years or we did two years at Castle Bromwich where we did Battle of Britain Displays each and we were eh, highest in the Country. I don’t know if it was because the people of Birmingham were very generous. I think part of it was that we had the British Industries Fair at the side. We done quite well out of that I should think we charged them a pound for parking there eh that pushed up the Benevolent fund and we did quite well out of it I should think.
Then I got my last posting which was to run the Staff Navigation Course at Shawbury. So I had three goes at Shawbury. I liked Shawbury it was one of my favourite airfields and then I left the Air Force. And and Then I went over to BMC as the em Career and eh ah as the representative to the Caribbean that was [laugh] that was a treat. It was just after, we were still on rations in this country and to go there on one of the Islands and order a steak and get something about that big, it was quite an experience. Anyway from then on of course I was in Civvy Street. So I eh finished up doing Management Training in eh training. I was an expert in a technique called [unreadable] which was problem solving and decision making and eh, “what was the other course?” [little confused] “my minds going” [pause].
Nigel? “Transaction Analysis.”
CB. Transaction Analysis yes.
CB. We’ll have a break now.
WB. Yeah. I carried on teaching at, it wasn’t BMC any longer or Leyland as it had been called. But I did several courses for er for the Systems which eventually became, eventually became Unipart didn’t it? I ran a few courses and then no more and lapsed into old age.
CB. What age did you retire?
WB. Sixty five I retired but I still continued to go back to run the odd course. I’d just got paid a fee. That’s about it.[pause]
CB. You ok?
[Possibly a break in the recording]
WB. Its called Decca
CB. We are just talking about Gee and the fact that the Germans jammed it, but you could tell they were jamming it. How did that show on the screen?
WB. The screen went all like that eh eh.
CB. What was the next system?
WB. It was, well Bomber Command resorted to Pathfinders where they used Mosquitoes with things like H2S and eh and other eh quite a lot of stuff that the Mosquitoes carried and they marked the target with em.
CB. With coloured flares ?
WB. With coloured flares, yes and they presumably new the colours beforehand so the Germans could not mark, put these things into operation.
CB. So after, you said there was a different system after Gee, what sort.
WB. Decca
CB. How did that work.
WB. It was similar to Gee, it was very, Gee had a very short range compared with the other things. Decca had a better range, the thing about Decca was that it could be made to give you the wrong information without you realising it. In other words it was possible for the enemy or the Germans if you like to make the Decca instrument read something else and you would not know.
CB. And that’s what they did?
WB. The RAF refused to have anything to with it. They did Air Commodore Death, he was flying over the North Pole they did use Decca for that occasion. But then of course the war was long over, but they wouldn’t touch it as a eh eh Navigational Instrument. In fact now they don’t even have Navigators so never mind eh. Now they have all these Satellites and Computers and what have you and Laser Beams. They don’t need Navigators, they don’t need Wireless Operators either, there is no need for Morse. I eh as far as I know the Tornado isn’t eh doesn’t carry defensive guns as far as I know.
CB. Can we go back to when you were doing your Flying Training in South Africa.
WB. Yes.
CB. So you done Ground School already in the UK, what did you do in your Training in South Africa?
WB. Flew in Ansons all over the, all over South Africa and,
CB. So what were the exercises that you did ?
WB. Normal Navigation, cross country ones, but we did not have much in the way of Navigation Aids you know. You could, you could get beams from wireless beams but they weren’t particularly accurate and certainly astro was bloody awful. I mean you were very lucky[laugh] to be within twelve miles of where you really were.
CB. Why was that, was it because it took so long or it was difficult to see?
WB. No the sextant was a bottle sextant which moves about of course and you had to go for a whole, yet, have very accurate watch, for a minute do a, and then you averaged it out eh well cause you, you, used to have a song about eh “The bubble goes right and something goes left” I can’t remember.
CB. So in practical terms, in practical terms you were taking three fixes to get each.
WB. No, three position lines.
CB. Three position lines.
WB. To get a fix, but you very often found the position lines didn’t bear any relation to each other. Astro, to be honest I never used Astro except practicing on the ground. I never used it for Flying. No never. We once got em, in a Halifax, we once got struck by lightning and all the magnetical things all went hay wire so we had to come back on Gee [laugh] and eh and the Astro compass yeah. There was a lovely story when, Death, Air Commodore Death was flying round the North Pole. You have a problem with the North Pole because whatever way you go you go South, so they had to use Grid Navigation. But Anyway they landed at some place or other and er and Airman or somebody or maybe an NCO was taking, allocating rooms in the Mess and eh said “AC Death” and he said to the Air Commodore “AC1 or 2?” and the Air Commodore said “Air Commodore actually” and the chap said “that will be the day.”
CB. These anecdotes are very good. So just going back to the Flying Training. How long were you doing that, you were flying daylight but you sometimes flew at night didn’t you, in South Africa?
WB. No in South Africa we never flew at night, I can never remember flying at night but we flew all the time. We did a lot of flying in Anson’s and of course we did a lot of theoretical work. I remember we used to make fun of their accent, the South African accent especially when they were talking about the guns the rear guns. And talking about the Hood, they used to say Hoood. We used to say to him how goo get us the Hoood. [laugh]
CB. But they took it in good stead.
WB. Oh yes, we used to get on very well with the South Africans they were quite pleasant of course they were in the war.
CB. At what point were you awarded your flying brevet?
WB. Oh immediately we finished the course in South Africa. I remember I could you, eh, I had to buy them in the local shop, you had to get your first uniform made there but there were no Navigator half moons, half wings. They were the old “O”
CB. So you were the Observer.
WB. That’s why when we got married I was wearing the “O”
CB. Did you then convert to Navigator or did you have the Observer brevet?
WB. I changed to Navigator because I thought it sounded much better and more prestige than Observer. Totally after that I changed to Navigator brevet. Of course that doesn’t exist now, well it does in theory.
CB. Right, different. So as an Observer you didn’t just do Navigation, what else did you do? Because you done Air Bombing.
WB. No we had a Bomb Aimer who did that, I tell you what we used to introduce ourselves to the soldiers that we were carrying in the Gliders and we all had our names here. It was all very well oh when I went bye or a Pilot went by they always looked with natural horror, his name was Coffin [laugh] yeah.
CB. On the Albemarle, the Armstrong Whitworth Albemarle was a fairly rare aeroplane?
WB. I think five or six hundred were made and about two hundred of them were sent to Russia. Yes I wouldn’t say it was the best aeroplane to fly particularly from the Navigators point of view, you had no room, your table, your navigation table was folded over your lap. And eh when we went to the Halifax they had a proper laid out table and everything was marvellous, ah God.
CB. So flying the Albemarle what were you doing, were you dropping supplies to the Macys or the Resistance in General, how did the Operation go?
WB. We were particularly successful in fact my Pilot, as usual in the Air Force the Pilot was the one who usually got decorated because eventually the effect. The fable was you decorated the whole crew by giving the Pilot the DFC or whatever or DSO. Then we changed you know, when in the Air Force we changed every two years, so after about two years’ time you had no recognition saying you were a Navigator or whatever or Wireless Operator. The only person who had any recognition was the Pilot. Very few Navigators eh most of the Navigators who got mostly decorated were mainly Pathfinders ones. Eh not many, occasionally when something happened perhaps they got the odd DFC. Bye and large the Pilots always got the Gong which we thought was unfair. The other thing we thought was unfair was when the Canadians came over the Canadian Navigators had double wings eh so we thought we ought of have double wings. So would you believe it the Air Ministry decided to put it to the vote of Aircrew em as to whether they wanted the double wings. Of course there were far more Pilots than ever was Navigators. So of course they voted against it, so of course we never did get the double wings. But the Canadians had it and the Americans did too. The Americans had the double wings but eh, but eh.
CB. Can you talk us through an Operation when you are supplying the Macys?
WB. Well eh yeah, you were given a very short interval in which to drop, about five minutes, you weren’t allowed any more than five minutes because that would give away the position of the Macys. So you eh ah the Navigational had to be very accurate. If you didn’t make contact in the field in the time given you had to return to Base em with the material. As I said you had three lights, three torches that’s all they were. Three there and one at the side, with the one at the side like a nail formation and that one there would be flashing a code number which we had been given beforehand. And eh when the ere when the eh, the thing that annoyed me my Pilot got the same decoration as I got last week, this French decoration He got his during the war or just to the end of the war [unreadable] but the thing was he only did what he was told. I mean you gave him the Flight you gave him the Course the Height to fly at, the eh Airspeed. You kept changing the airspeed so that you arrived at the correct time because as I say you only had a short time to deliver the [unreadable]. When we eh when we spotted the lights, the Bomb Aimer would be in position, we would drop height down to about five hundred feet and drop the supplies and back. We normally flew at about six thousand, six or seven thousand but I tell you what as the Navigator I always gave the Pilot a thousand feet to much if you eh if the high ground was seven thousand feet I always gave him eight thousand to fly. I was all eh we lost a couple of aircraft in Norway because of this, well they didn’t put a safety margin on the flight.
CB. How difficulty was to find this Target, on your own that is, it is not with any other aircraft.
WB. Very difficult, we once got chased by a Fighter but he eh um he didn’t shoot. We did a Corkscrew, we were at our proper height then. The beauty, the reason that we dropped down to five hundred feet, the Fighters couldn’t fly underneath you [laugh] they would fly into the ground if they did. But eh but we never did, never had a Fighter contact at the time we were dropping, it was always clear and eh as I say eh you had a fifty, fifty chance of finding them, you only had, you were out of range of Gee. The Pathfinders of course had many other aids other than Gee. I mean they had bending beams and things and cross beams that were active when they were over the target. All the Navigators that I met who were well decorated were Pathfinder ones. Oh apart from the, there was the odd one from the eh, Dambusters.
CB. Oh Yeah. When you eh were looking for the sight of the Dropping Zone did they tend to be in wooded areas or were they in open fields or where were they.
WB. It would depend on what part of France it was, if it was the unoccupied part it would tend to be open ground. If it was the occupied part eh, we would look for some sort of cover if you could get it yeah em, but em.
CB. How many passes could you do?
WB. Oh we were only allowed one.
CB. Only one ?
WB. Yeah, because you didn’t have time to do any others. The Resistance Group would hear the aircraft coming and they would put on their torches, immediately we saw the torches we would drop and eh to supply them. We used to supply them with generally stuff to sabotage and so on to blow up railway lines and bridges. The idea was, they didn’t operate, or not very much until D Day and then they started mining all the things to delay any German reinforcements.
CB. And eh the Bomb Aimer was the person responsible for dropping, so there were static lines attached to the stores. How were they dropped, with a parachute?
WB. No they were more or less dropped as [unreadable] they were wrapped up, they weren’t on parachutes.
CB. They weren’t.
WB. No.
CB. Did you ever drop supplies by parachute?
WB. No but eh the night before D Day, 296 Squadron, I wasn’t on that 296 Squadron dropped parachutes, parachute Troops to seize a bridge, I forget the name of it but it is very famous, the Bridge.
CB. So on D Day what was your task?
WB. Our task was to drop the er Paratroops, the Gliders we dropped those behind the lines.
CB. Was this in daylight or at night?
WB. In daylight, the one that captured the bridge were dropped by parachute, that was night. It was the night before D Day but em. On D Day I remember the whole blinking sea seemed to be full of ships. I just couldn’t believe it and we flew over them. We were then stationed at Brize Norton which is now quite a famous airfield.
CB. When you were towing gliders, what height are you flying?
WB. Eh, I can’t remember exactly but I think about two to three thousand.
CB. What speed were you able to make?
WB. [laugh] Anson speed about a hundred em hundred and twenty perhaps, if you were lucky, sometimes slower than that.
CB. Because the speed is governed by what the Glider can do.
WB. Yes, well you just tow the glider along and the glider has control whither he has the release, not the Tug as we were called, we didn’t. We usually spoke to them before they were released to say good luck and what have you.
CB. So as well as the rope, it was a rope that tied you to the glider.
WB. I mean we dropped that, we were usually given a dropping zone for that.
CB. Back in Britain?
WB. No, by the Target, yes because we didn’t want to fly with a rope, [laugh] spare rope behind us. Yeah we, I think on D Day 296 Squadron we lost one aircraft.
CB. So how many other glider trips did you take for the Invasion?
WB. The Invasion, the Invasion only the one they did we, er there were other Squadrons, there was 297 doing the same sort of thing, they were stationed at Harwell. We had Halifax’s, 38 Group were equipped with the first Halifax’s, we didn’t have them but they were in the group they were used. Funnily enough eh they towed a different glider. We towed a Horsa which carried troops. They towed a thing called a, “what was it called?” Hamilcar, yes that’s it.
CB. That had guns in it?
WB. That carried a small tank and of course the small tank was no match for the German Armoured Division, no. That that was Montgomery’s idea apparently [unreadable] Eisenhower and it was a disaster. Only because they didn’t know, they would never have sent them had they knew there was a German Armoured Division there.
CB. Are we talking about Arnhem now or are we talking about Normandy landings, you were just taking troops?
WB. Normandy landings we just flew over the top we got em the. I think some parachutists were dropped, their purpose was to try to immobilise the guns. I think that is what the Americans unfortunately dropped their parachutists in the wrong place or too far away and they suffered terrible casualties, compared with the British and Canadians. But it is so old now seventy five years or whatever.
CB. Long time.
WB. It is a long time, in fact I’m surprised, I suppose it’s the role played that I remember so much. I wouldn’t have thought at ninety six to remember as much as I do remember, but I don’t remember all of it.
CB. So when you were towing the glider, were you the lead Navigator yourself?
WB. No each aircraft had its own Navigator. The Americans had a lead Navigator scheme but I think they gave that up after a while, because if you got the Leader shot down you were in trouble to a certain extent.
CB. You were the Squadron Navigation Officer weren’t you?
WB. Yes I was Squadron Navigation Officer then Station Navigation Officer then HQ Malaya Navigation.
CB. Over a period of years?
WB. Oh I loved Singapore was lovely, that was a posting that.
CB. But in that case you gave up towing gliders at the end of the war.
WB. Oh yes, gliders were never used again. They were very expensive the er em. The Germans invaded Crete with parachutists and they made the mistake of parachuting the ammunition separately [laugh] and eh the British Tommies had a Hell of a time for a while until the Germans were able to reinforce and eh eh, funny.
CB. OK we will stop there for a bit.
CB. So Bill what was the most memorable thing that you did, do you think?
WB. The most memorable thing was the Ground Crew of 296 decided to hold a raffle or call it what you like, that sort of thing. They collected money from all of the Ground Crew and decided they would award the money to the first aircraft to make touch down. We were first and eh our Ground Crew goes cheering to the roof you know because they would collect the money. Some Ground Crew serviced more aircraft, I don’t know what arrangements they had for that. We taxied back to the dispersal with cheers and whoops and what have you. We were then at Brize Norton.
When we went to. I didn’t mention, when we went to Arnhem we flew to Manston and, and in order to get closer to the Target because Albemarle’s hadn’t the range of the Halifax. So we flew down there, but the thing that I remember was that there were Americans at Manston and eh our first Meteors had appeared and they couldn’t understand how these aircraft were flying without propellers [laugh].
CB. Meteor Jets yes.
WB. Yes
CB. What was the level of loss on the Squadron, how many aircraft were lost?
WB. I don’t know off hand.
CB. Was it a regular occurrence?
WB. No not, the sort of Operation we were doing supplying the Resistance Group, it didn’t pay the German Air Force to go chasing after one er aircraft, so by in large we were never attacked. Although there is a, I’ve got a picture in the album. Incidentally, I don’t know if you want to look at the Album when I got this French Decoration, three weeks later we were there.
CB. We will look at that in just a moment thank you.
WB. Yes that was the only thing, it’s funny how you remember small things connected to big things. You get some small incidents that occur and a great big thing like D Day you remember the Ground Crew gathering on your return to Base.
CB. How was the relationship between the Aircrew and the Ground Crew.
WB. Oh very good, very, very good yeah we knew them all by name, they were always there with a smile.
CB. We are going to stop there because time has run out so thank you very much indeed.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with William Barfoot
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Pending review
Pending OH summary
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Barfoot was born in Newcastle upon Tyne. On joining the Air Force, he trained as a wireless operator but remustered as aircrew. He trained as a navigator in South Africa. He flew operations with 296 Squadron supplying the French and Norwegian Resistance, towing troop gliders to Normandy, Arnham and the Rhine.
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
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2015-12-08
Contributor
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Hugh Donnelly
Format
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01:10:19 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABarfootWE151208
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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France
Germany
Great Britain
Greece
Netherlands
Norway
South Africa
England--Essex
England--Oxfordshire
England--Kent
South Africa--Makhanda
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
296 Squadron
aircrew
Albemarle
Anson
Dominie
Gee
Halifax
Hamilcar
Horsa
military service conditions
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Castle Bromwich
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Earls Colne
RAF Hullavington
RAF Manston
RAF Shawbury
RAF Yatesbury
Resistance
Stirling
Tiger Moth
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/433/7764/PPetrinaA1801.1.jpg
95faf4f02230c3b0d616bd0a7554c009
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/433/7764/APetrinaA180109.1.mp3
7fa314a874860a80433dfca6b7ab1649
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Petrina, Aldo
Aldo Petrina
A Petrina
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Aldo Petrina who recollects his wartime experiences in Capodistria and Varese.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Sono Peter Sciulze e sto per importare il signor Aldo Petrina, siamo a Trieste e oggi è il 9 gennaio 2018. Grazie Aldo per aver concesso questa intervista.
PS: Grazie Peter, sono qua
AP: La tua intervista, la sua intervista diventerà parte dell’International Bomber Command Digital Archive
PS: [coughs] scusa
PS: gestito dall’Università di Lincoln per conto dell’international Bomber Command Centre. Allora Aldo. È inoltre presente la moglie Mariagrazia Sinigo Petrina. Allora Aldo se puoi ricorda - raccontarci il ricordo più antico che hai.
AP: Dunque, io vivevo, la mia famiglia viveva a Capodistria, che è una piccola cittadina che adesso è Slovenia e allora era Italia. Le cose [clears throat], le prime cose che ricordo è una vita tranquilla che poco ha a che fare con la guerra, mio padre non c'era, perchè era partito, era stato richiamato. Mio padre era ufficiale di complemento della marina ed era stato richiamato praticamente nell'anno stesso in cui, io sono nato nel '40 e gli italiani sono entrati in guerra in giugno del '40, quindi mio padre era sparito, era in Grecia. Io ero con la mamma, solo, e passavamo la vita di una piccola cittadina andavamo al bagno mi ricordo d'estate mio nonno mi aveva fatto una barchetta con cui giocavo molto bene. Poi c'avevo tanti miei amichetti, giocavamo lì nella, io abitavo in piazza del Brolo, era una piazza piuttosto grande, con due grandi pozzi, e vicino a uno di questi pozzi c'era una specie di zona giochi per i bambini con una distesa di sabbia e di, io mi ricordo mi divertivo con gli altri amichetti a fare stampi di sabbia e robe di questo genere quindi di, di. E così sono passati i primi anni di guerra insomma, francamente, ogni tanto andavamo a Trieste dai nonni mi ricordo la, mi piaceva molto il tragitto col vaporetto, sul vaporetto era molto divertente, guardavo fuori, insomma era gradevole. E dai nonni si veniva qua, in questa casa qua dove abito. E altri ricordi non, cioè. Il primo ricordo, diciamo, che possa toccare la storia è stato proprio l'8 settembre, cioè l'8 settembre, cioè prima mia mamma sentivevamo la radio, ascoltava la radio, non so se ascoltasse radio Londra, non ho idea ma comunque l'8 settembre del '43, sotto, nello stesso stabile dove cui abitavamo noi c'era un deposito di materiale dell'economato militare italiano. Quindi c'era viveri, vestiario, un po' di tutto. C'eran [interruption]
AP: [coughs] Sì, mi ricordo dell'armistizio, cioè, c'era la gente tutta contenta, è finita la guerra. Funziona? Sì. E, quello che io mi ricordo è che hanno svaligiato, cioè la gente si è buttata, tutto quello che c'era in questo deposito che era cibo e robe varie. E uno di questi che stavano rubando mi ha dato a me un album, una specie di album, con fotografie, ed erano le fotografie di tutti i soldati che facevano parte di quel reparto, c'erano le piccole foto tipo tessera. E dice 'Aldo divertiti va' e io me lo sono preso. Però, cos'è successo, che han cominciato ad arrivare a casa nostra tutte le ragazze, perché molte di loro [clears throat], si erano fatti delle ragazze lì e quelle volevano la fotografia e quindi tutte quanto mi hanno levato, arrivavano e mi strappavano via la fotografia e quindi ci sono rimasto malissimo perchè avevo questo bell'album che io mi divertivo a guardare e alla fine non c'era più niente. Questo è il ricordo dell'armistizio. [laughs] E dopo l'armistizio dopo qualche, dopo un mese circa, questo lo so adesso ma allora, dopo un po' una mattina abbiamo aperto la finestra e abbiamo trovato la piazza piena di carri armati, no non carri armati, mezzi, mezzi, un reparto motorizzato tedesco praticamente, tutto appieno. Avevano aperto i pozzi e si lavavano. Hanno, hanno detto di tenere chiuse tutte le finestre, non volevano le finestre, sono venuti a fare una perquisizione la sera stessa a casa è venuto un tedesco con una lampadina mi ricordo ha guardato in giro ha salutato e se ne è andato via. [clears throat] Dopo potevamo anche circolare, ricordo solo che le signore, c'era mia mamma eran quasi tutte donne eccetera, l'unica cosa che ricordo che dicevano era 'dio come sono belli' [laughs] i tedeschi. Erano abituati con i nostri soldati [laughs] che erano nanerottoli [laughs], poveri, meridionali i tedeschi erano belli, erano biondi, alti, belli, si lavavano quindi erano a torso nudo molto, era ottobre quindi era caldo, ecco quindi le signore erano entusiaste, ecco questo ti dico. Poi ci hanno chiesto di vuotare il pozzo nero, perché dormivano nel nostro atrio, mi ricordo una puzza spaventosa però [laughs] hanno vuotato il pozzo nero. [interruption]
AP: E poi quello che ricordo e che a un certo punto un'amica di mia madre, era di Vipiteno, e sai che, volendo i cittadini italiani che erano dell'Alto Adige potevano optare per andare nella Wehrmacht o SS, lei lì occasionalmente ha incontrato un ufficiale di questi che era venuto, dopo ho saputo era la divisione Prinz Eugen di montagna, quindi era, ecco. Uno di questi era un suo compagno di scuola e ha chiamato mia mamma e dice 'Sandra, Sandra vieni giù. Ti presento un amico'. Questo qua è un signore molto distinto, parlava italiano un po' ma lo parlava bene, a mia madre baciamano, naturalmente un ufficiale tedesco, sai com'è. E poi c’è - avevano, in quel momento c'era la cucina loro la chiamano goulash wagen, no, mi pare cioè ecco. Ha chiamato uno, gli ha detto qualcosa e quello mi ha dato una fetta di pane nero spalmata di burro a me bambino, si vede che avevo l’aria fa - famelica, non lo so, ecco. E lui ha spiegato a mia madre, chiaro e tondo, questo io, non, l’ho saputo ‘signora guardi, sono venuti i partigiani prima hanno portato via un sacco di gente e buttato in foibe. Noi siamo arrivati e adesso faremo la spedizione punitiva, li sistemiamo noi, però non saremo sempre qua. Lei è italiana’ perché mia madre era proprio milanese ‘qui qualcuno parla qualche parola di slavo e se la cava, lei no. Guardi che adesso han buttato in foibe i, il presidente del fo - tutti quelli della Guardia di Finanza e tutti quel del tribunale, che erano italiani. Se tornano lei rischia. Se può filare, fili.’ Tempo, questo succedeva nell’autunno del '4 - in marzo del'44 mia madre ha preso tutti bagagli ed ha portato i mobili qua a Trieste e lei è andata a Varese, i miei nonni hanno detto 'no qua, perché ci sono i bombardamenti' ecco, quindi, la parte di tri - Capodistria finisce qua. Tutto il resto e a Va - una cittadina vicino a Varese, Azzate. Dove però la guerra proprio non si sentiva, almeno credavamo noi. [clears throat] Di notte si, si sentivano passare gli aerei, di giorno anche, tutto quello che vuoi. L'unica cosa che non prevedevamo è che dall'alt - il paesino è sul lago di Varese, dall'altra parte del lago di Varese c'era la fabbrica di aerei, la Macchi e quindi quello era un obbiettivo sensibile ed è stato bombardato quanto vuoi e io dalla terrazza vedevo di tutto, insomma, però senza nessun rischio. Le prime volte mi chiudevano gli occhi dicevano 'no il bambino non deve vedere' poi siccome era ogni giorno [laughs] tutto qua. Quello che ricordo di quel periodo beh, una cosa sicuramente che mia mamma ha ascoltato, questo me lo ricordo, l'ultimo discorso di Mussolini, quello del Lirico sulla radio, mi ricordo di sera mia madre. E dopo ha detto ‘sì ma la voce non è più la sua, era un po’ diversa.’ Radio Londra non so se la ascoltassero. Quello che ricordo bene so - beh anzitutto vedevi gli aeroplani passare, gli aeroplani degli alleati passare sul cielo di giorno ma vedevi la scia come adesso i jet praticamente non vedevi altro. Quello invece che ricordo bene è stato, era inverno, l’ultimo inverno praticamente, il bombardamento di Danzica, abbiamo saputo dopo che andavano a Danzica [laughs] allora non lo sapevamo, però tutta la notte, per due notti sono passati degli aeroplani sopra, molto bassi, sembravano, tremava tutta la casa e mi ricordo che con la candela mia mamma e mia nonna che pregavano, io stavo a letto e mi ricordo che pregavano dalla paura dicendo ‘povera gente, chissà dove vanno? Chissà dove vanno?’ difatti han fatto il danno di Danzica. Questo è. [clears throat] L'altro episodio che ricordo è, questo a Capodistria, che mio pa - l'ultima volta che ho visto mio padre prima della, durante la guerra lui lo abbiamo accompagnato al vaporetto perchè lui andava a Trieste e prendeva il treno e dopo andava giù a Taranto mio padre era, anche si sono finit - incontrati non sapendolo tutti e due ufficiali di marina perché mio padre era. Dopo ti racconterò perché era arrivato a Taranto. E l'ultima volta io lo avevo visto in divisa blu, era divisa blu e allora dopo a Varese mi avevano detto quando tornerà papà sarà vestito di bianco perché era estate lì e invece ci sono rimasto malissimo perché aveva la sahariana [laughs] cachi, quindi e [clears throat] bene. La sahariana cachi è famosa perchè se tu guardi il libro Hitler's, no “Mussolini's Navy” un libro inglese uscito da poco, quando descrive le divise c'è la foto di mio padre con la Sahariana perché gliel'ho data io all'autore. O l'altra cosa che volevo dirti era, spetta, altri ricordi di. Meh adesso fammi qualche domanda tu.
PS: Tu hai visto gli aerei che bombardavano Danzica? Che erano diretti a Danzica?
AP: Non gli ho visti perché era di notte. Non Danzica era Dresda. Il famoso bomb - Dresda l’hanno rasa al suolo praticamente, non gli ho visto però di notte, non sono riuscito ancora adesso a capire da dove venissero, credo da aeroporti dell’Italia meridionale perché era, era già dopo, il, era, succedeva nel febbraio credo del ‘45 quindi. Cioè di notte, passavano, quindi erano inglesi chiaramente, passavano di notte e tremava tu - tutta la casa, questo sì, sicuramente. Ho visto poi gli americani, gli aerei americani che passavano di giorno quelli li vedevi anche se erano lenti [?] ecco. [clears throat] L’unico aereo che ho visto bene, gli aerei, erano nell’aeroporto di Venegono degli aerei da caccia, credo che fossero della Repubblica Sociale o tedeschi non lo so, ricordo solo che andavamo con mia nonna a prendere il latte a Venegono e che ho visto questi aerei e sono rimasto molto male, molto male, molto male perché io avevo dei giocattoli degli aerei eran - bell’aereo rosso col, tedesco, con le svastiche, era meraviglioso ma rosso e quelli erano grigi, neri, erano una schifezza, quindi erano [laughs] [clears throat] ero rimasto molto male e dopo abbiamo visto il famoso bombardiere americano abbattuto, era, era, non era un B17 era quegli altri, quelli fatti, cos’era, un, un quadrimotore grande, poteva essere un Liberator mi pare che li chiamavano, quelli che eran, un quadr - era come arenato su una collina fa conto, era chiaro bianco, non si poteva avvicinarsi e l’unica cosa che ricordo che c’era un certo signor Magister che era il capo era ‘la Repubblica Sociale, il fasci - il quale si vantava, si vantava, ‘abbattuto, la contraerea’ tutti eravam contenti, bene gliele abbiamo date una buona volta, invece eh. Fino a che il giorno dopo è comparso su un tramezzino su un giornale eh che lo avevano tirato giù gli svizzeri [laughs] [clears throat] lo aveva tirato giù la contraerea svizzera, quando sparava la contraerea svizzera ti, cioè si illuminava tutto il cielo, cioè noi avevamo davanti dei monti di prealpi e dietro tu vedevi tutto illuminato, era la contraerea svizzera che reagiva, ferocemente, quindi erano.
MSP: Quindi dietro Campo dei Fiori?
AP: Sì, dietro a Campo dei Fiori. Mentre invece quando bombardavano milano vedevamo tutto rosso dalla parte di Milano che era dall’altra parte. Ma questo ricordo della contraerea svizzera era bellissimo, dalla terrazza era uno spettacolo. E altro, non ricordo di, di. Sì i bombardamenti del, del [clears throat] dello stabilimento di aerei, la fabbrica della aeroplani.
PS: Sì, puoi raccontarmi un po’ di più di questo bombardamento del, della fabbrica.
AP: Beh [clears throat] praticamente tu vedevi le bombe, cioè non vedevi le bombe ma vedevi improvvisamente dei lampi, dei lampi, poi un gran fumo, fumo, fumo, fumo, spariva tutto. Cioè non continuavi a vedere fiamme come adesso quando bombardano perché non alzava temperatura probabilmente adesso l’ho capito, vedevi dei lampi e poi gran fumo, fumo, fumo e la fabbrica che si copriva di fumo. Di notte vedevi anche più fiamme e qualcosa del genere ecco e inv - quello che mi ricordo netto che non sapevamo che cosa fosse e che una volta hanno, dopo, questo lo saputo dopo, gli hanno colpiti di notte e c’era dentro tutto il turno di notte degli operai e ci son stati, c’è stato un massacro e allora hanno chiesto aiuto per portarli in ospedale a Milano perchè a Varese era già pieno alla Croce Rossa svizzera e l’ho sentito per la prima volta gli svizzeri avevano il bitonale hai presente? Quel suono doppio per, l’effetto doppler, no? Cioe fa - cioè la nota bassa e la nota alta, ecco. Non sapevamo cosa fosse ‘cos’è sta roba?’ era come l’allarme fai conto, ma, e dopo abbiamo saputo era la Croce Rossa svizzera che aveva mandato, perché è stato un disastro sai, [unclear] un centottanta, una roba del genere. [clears throat] E dopo la guerra mi ricordo i partigiani, che li ho visti che no - mia mamma non voleva che andassi, perchè avevamo la casa che dava su due strade, su due provinciali praticamente e mia mamma siccome c’era in giro ancora partigiani che sparavano di notte e sentivi raffiche di mitra, di tutto, m’ha detto, non voleva che io bambino andassi, a guardare fuori, e io naturalmente cosa facevo io? Andavo a guardare. Sono andato sulla strada che dava verso l’autostrada verso Milano e c’era un muretto, fai conto alto così e la raminata e io stavo a lì a vedere e sono passati i partigiani. Ecco mi ricordo un camion, carico di gente che cantav - con scritte ‘viva’ non, non sapevo leggere quindi non sapevo niente cosa fossero. Quello che ho visto erano gran bandiere rosse e gran cantavano, avevano un’aria un po’ bevuta [laughs] effettivamente e questo camion. E poi c’è il ricordo degli alleati quando sono arrivati, è venuta una signora. Beh un ricordo pare che avessero visto Mussolini con, ma quello è, è non è un racconto, cioè, te lo dico in dialetto c’era tanta gente lì eravamo fermi in una negozietto di commestibili, in una posteria fai conto da, di campagna è venuta una donna e sono passate delle auto nere e una donna io mi ricordo le frasi in dialetto che diceva ‘alelù, alelù, alè il crapun con la petascia’ cioè erano, era un auto con un uomo e una donna ma non sono sicuro che fossero ne Mussolini
MSP: [laughs]
AP: E anche se fossero stati non gli avrei visti perchè erano tutti davanti e io ero sotto, ecco. Quello che invece ho visto e sono [unclear] ‘sciura Sandra, sciura Sandra, ghi ne aleat ’ cioè, ci sono gli alleati e allora siamo corsi in questo piccola posteria e li c’era una jeep che non avevo mai visto, una strana auto verde coi, coi [unclear] io avevo visto le aute tedesche le guardavo con gli occhi [unclear] sai, Kübelwagen no? Quelle scu - ecco, no? Che erano basse, questa qua [unclear] e davano cioccolata descri - cioccolata e quello che mi ha impressionato tanto è che quello che dava la cioccolata era nero, era un negro. Però insospettito con sto qua. Poi, la cosa che mi ha traumatizzato è che come ha dato la cioccolata ho visto che aveva la mano di un colore sopra e un colore sotto.
MSP: [laughs]
AP: Mamma mia cos’è sta roba. M’ha dato la cioccolata e mia mamma mi diceva ‘mangia’ e io non volevo mangiare dicevo sto qua mi darà [unclear] quel tipo lì strano, mia mamma ha insistito e l’ho mangiata e insomma, tra me e me dopo mentre mangiavo mi dicevo ‘forse è finita la guerra’ [laughs]. Ecco, questo è il ricordo, poi. Poi ne - però non fame, assolutamente né a Capodistria che avevamo la donna che veniva dalle campagne e ci portava di tutto e no a Varese perché mia nonna aveva un terreno molto grande con un colono che [clears throat] coltivava il terreno e ci dava a noi poi dopo sono entrati in, hanno litigato perchè il colono a un certo punto co - co - ci dava molto poco e fregava un sacco di roba, perché andava in una piccola stazione vicino a, dove venivano da Milano quelli della borsa nera e lui vendeva i prodotti agricoli a prezzi ottimi, quindi abbiamo dovuto cacciarlo e prendere un altro colono che, eh. Però non ci mancava niente, fame no. L’unica fame che ho visto un po’ è stata al ritorno a Trieste, quando siamo tornati perché mio padre è tornato dalla guerra, mio padre è stato dato per morto, poi [laughs] Ti racconto? Vado avanti? Dunque mio padre era a Cefalonia, a Argostoli. A Cefalonia tu sai cosa è successo i tedeschi eh, ecco. Hanno preso tutti gli italiani, gli, gli ufficiali e li hanno fucilati eccetera, non la marina, perchè [laughs] la marina aveva i MAS, mio padre era comandante, c’erano due, erano due MAS di stanza lì con un ufficiale di carriera che era il comandante del reparto, e mio padre comandava l’altro MAS, la sera dell’8 settembre, hanno, c’era un tedesco solo che insieme con loro che collaborava e gli han detto ‘senti, tu stai buono’ e l’hanno legato e lui ha detto ‘legatemi bene perchè s - dovrò spiegare a quelli della Gestapo perché mi avete catturato e io non ho fatto niente’, e ‘noi ti leghiamo bene’, [clears throat] hanno lasciato in funzione l’impianto, il gruppo elettrogeno e alla chetichella si sono imbarcati, hanno tagliato gli ormeggi addirittura, tutto quanto sono partiti col motore al minimo perché nessuno sentisse e la mattina dopo erano a Brindisi. E quindi ha salvato la pelle, lui è tutti quelli della marina, però, però il problema era che lui il 9 settembre doveva venire in licenza a Trieste e allora, come poteva venire? O veniva con un vaporetto, o veniva con la tradotta italiana, ma, lui pranzava, mio padre parlava tedesco perché aveva fatto le scuole in Austria, con un ufficiale tedesco e l’ufficiale tedesco gli aveva detto ‘no guarda lascia perdere la tradotta italiana perché i partigiani jugoslavi in genere le bloccano e mettono al muro tutti gli ufficiali, ti do un biglietto e vai con la tradotta tedesca. Noi abbiamo le SS sui, sui predellini e distruggono qualunque forma di vita’ cioè chiunque si avvicini [laughs] alla ferrovia loro sparano e ammazzano senza tanti complimenti ‘con quella ti portiamo a Lubiana, Laibach e da Lubiana tu vai a Trieste in qualche maniera’. Quindi l’ufficiale tedesco ha detto che lui era, se era sul treno tedesco era in campo di concentramento. La tradotta italiana è stata assalita dai partigiani jugoslavi che hanno massacrato tutto e il vaporetto era comandato da un suo cugino è, il vaporetto è stato mitragliato è andato a fondo e lui non era fra i naufraghi. Era arrivata la, la, la comunicazione a mia mamma relativa come in inglese le chiamano ‘missing in action’, no?
MSP: [unclear]
AP: Cioè, finito, disperso. Lui era a Brindisi, da Brindisi è andato a Napoli, a Napoli l’hanno gli hanno dato lì, c’era un distaccamento della marina a Meta di Sorrento e lì li hanno messi in un convento di suore, le suore stavano morendo letteralmente di fame e erano ben contenti di avere la marina perché la marina aveva cibo, loro cucinavano e mio padre mangiava, beveva era contento e felice, così è stato. Ha cercato di avvertirci con una lettera, tramite la Croce Rossa svizzera. Solo che mia madre e - era convinta di essere vedova dal ‘43 e la lettera della Croce Rossa credo che sia arrivata nel ‘45 finalmente, dove lui diceva che era a Napoli, stava bene, non c’erano pericoli, ecco. Quindi questa è la, è la, tutti erano convinti che fosse morto e invece lui stava benissimo, ma nessun sapeva che eran scappati a Brindisi. Tra cui, particolare, avevano tenuto a bordo del MAS avevano spogliato in mutande il tedesco e avevano tenuto a bordo del MAS la divisa del tedesco. Perché non sapevano cosa trovavano dall’altra parte in Italia e dicono se ci accorgiamo che ci sono tedeschi vestiamo Petrina da tedesco sa parlare italiano e ‘diciamo che si ma dobbiamo andare da un’altra parte’ e andiamo a Malta [laughs]. Ecco. Quindi lui era pronto a vestirsi con l’abito del tedesco e far finta di essere tedesco, ecco, tutto qua. Bandiera l’avevano per cui insomma. E invece sono arrivati e hanno visto bandiera italiana e c’è del re no, quindi, felici e contenti. Questo è altre storie del periodo dopoguerra
PS: Io adesso volevo tornare un attimo al, al tempo che tu hai trascorso a Varese.
AP: Sì
PS: Provincia di Varese
AP: Provincia di Varese, sì.
PS: Quindi raccontami un po’ della tua vita di ogni giorno e anche il nome del, del paese
AP: Azzate, Azzate il posto beh, era piuttosto gradevole perché avevamo un grande, fa conto come un grande parco dove c’erano un sacco di cose da mangiare perché praticamente ho passato lì due estati, no? L’estate del ‘44 e poi metà di quella del ‘45 e mio - siccome, sì c’era cibo ma non proprio tanto, no? Io ricordo che tutta l’estate mi hanno dato uova col pomodoro, oppure riso con pomodoro. L’inverno è stato il più duro perché c’eran - mi hanno dato castagnaccio, non mi piacevano perchè lo facevano anche con le castagne marce quindi no - non era buono. E però era un gran divertimento perché io la mattina uscivo di casa, in questo gia - nel giardino eh non uscivo lì e facevo, facevo il giro di tutte le piante che sapevo dove si poteva mangiare cioè, c’erano i lamponi, c’erano le fragole, c’erano le ciliegie, c’erano le pere, le mele e io davo la caccia a tutte queste cose me le mangiavo, finché in autunno c’era l’uva, insomma, quindi era piuttosto gradevole mi ricordo. Ogni tanto veniva qualche altro bambinetto con cui giocavo, con cui mi divertivo allora il gio - specificando che per i bambini, maschi, gli unici giocattoli erano armi eh, non è come adesso che tu vedi solo puppolotti e robe strane [laughs] giocattoli in plastica, no, no, no. Io avevo solo fucili, bellissimo un, come un 91 una [unclear] ma piccolo, era quello dei Balilla fai conto o qualcosa del genere, pistole ce - di tutto, l’unica cosa che mi avevano regalato era un elmetto, che era l’elmetto italiano, ma io sognavo l’elmetto tedesco quindi ma, que - era piccolino ma insomma, ma io ho detto a mia mamma ‘ma io voglio quello col gradino’ no, non c’era, va be bon. Ma perché avevo già capito che erano quelli buoni quelli [laughs] mentre quegli altri, ecco. Quindi solo giocattoli di questo tipo o piccoli aeroplani [background noises] infatti quello rosso che io sognavo che mi sono accorto che non anda - [unclear] aeroplani e, ma comunque, diciamo che me la passavo molto bene ecco. Non mancava il cibo, ti ripeto facevo il giro ogni giorno a raccogliere il cibo. L’unica cosa a cui dovevo stare attento [clears throat] è che mia nonna aveva delle galline ma aveva anche dei tacchini e i tacchini erano alti come me praticamente o poco meno e uno, erano aggressivi e mi correvano addietro, non era simpatico. Una volta mi ero messo, mi ricordo ero seduto mi ero messo delle ciliegie così sulle orecchie, no? Ed ero girato e uno non è arrivato a beccarmi qua per beccarmi la ciliegia? Un tacchino, quindi no -
MSP: [laughs]
AP: ma niente di, cioè della guerra non. Bon, tutto quello che ho visto te l’ho detto, ecco no, non di più. Quindi me la passavo bene [unclear], dopo qua a Trieste sono andato subito alla scuola, perchè prima la scuola, sì perchè la scuola era bombardata e dopo un episodio simpatico è stato che nel ‘4 - seconda, quindi nel ‘47 a un certo punto avevamo la scuola in via San Giorgio, sai dove c’è il nautico lì, ecco. È arrivato il maestro col direttore e c’ha detto che tutti i bambini, dunque i più grandi dovevano portare in spalla il banco, i più piccoli, io ero tra i più piccoli, la sedia in testa e portarsi dietro cuore, no pinocchio, pinocchio, bon. E allora tutti quanti, da via San Giorgio c’hanno fatto andare a piedi, su per viale Terza Armata, dopo, e siamo andati alla scuola De Amicis in via Combi, che era stata bombardata ma era stata restaurata e dove gli inglesi volevano fare, ospedale militare e noi siamo arrivati dentro prima che arrivassero gli inglesi, ci hanno fatto sedere, ci hanno messo davanti il libro, eravamo tutti lì e sono arrivati gli inglesi. Io mi ricordo ancora adesso è arrivato un ufficiale inglese, guarda ai presente David Niven, preciso. Il cappello con quella fascia rossa, vestito eh, pantaloni corti e il, il bastoncino e arrivato, ha - il maestro ha riverito, eran tutte le, ha fatto il giro, ci guardava, ha girato una pagina, due, sai gli inglesi molto signorili, sempre col sorrisetto e poi se ne è andato via, eh, hanno accettato il fatto compiuto e hanno fatto l’ospedale militare qua al posto del, Da Vinci. [clears throat] E quindi è stato un’occupazione, insomma, [coughs] infatti siamo rimasti nella scuola dopo. Ma questo episodio me lo ricordo perché era una fatica portarsi in testa, il cartellin - Questo il dopoguerra.
PS: Volevo dir - volevo tornare un attimo al periodo di Varese
AP: Sì
PS: Come, come si viveva il tempo del fascismo lì?
AP: Era Repubblica Sociale, sì. Era Repubblica Sociale ma era abbastanza tranquillo, sì ogni tanto c’erano i repubblichini, li vedevamo, passavano, c’era ogni tanto, io mi ricordo que - ogni tanto passava qualche tedesco col sidecar, sidecar, tutto impolverato, tutto sporco, so che entravano dentro lì e bevevano una gazzosa qualcosa, non pagavano [laughs] e andava via ecco questo mi ricordo. E del fascismo io me ne ricordo anche a Capodistria cioè, la, l’ultima befana sarà stato credo nel ‘44, no? Sì, in gennaio del ‘44, eravamo ancora lì siamo andati via in marzo e c’era - davano, la befana fascista, davano regali ai bambini e mi hanno portato in questa, ero impaurito perché erano tutti vestiti di nero, sai com’erano i fascisti c’erano tutti questi, tutti vestiti di nero con aria sempre
MSP: truce
AP: erano fascisti, ecco, sì aggressiva ecco. E c’era per giunta una specie di cartone con un lupo di Cappuccetto Rosso e insomma sta roba non mi andava molto bene so che piangevo, non volevo, ma poi mi hanno dato il regalo. E i fascisti, i fascisti della, tu mi chiedi dei fascisti della Repubblica Sociale, sì, io li ho visti perchè siamo andati a trovare da Varese una zia, la zia Nestina a Milano. [clears throat] Siamo stati ospiti della zia per una notte e alla mattina c’era un gran trambusto, non capivamo cosa fosse sulle scale, ed erano tutte le signore che avevano preparato un sacco di cibo, quello che c’era panini, bevande, eccetera. E una signora ci, ‘vieni, vieni con noi andiamo a trovare i ragazzi della contraerea’, sul tetto, siamo andati sù, sù a piedi, non con l’ascensore, sù, sù a piedi e sul tetto c’erano dei cannoni, delle mitragliatrici, qualcosa e c’erano quelli della, i repubblichini della Repubblica Sociale, mi ricordo che erano dei tipi, di, tipi di, noi diciamo smafari qua [laughs] tipi di smafari spaventosi che stavano stravaccati, quello che mi ricordo erano gli stivali perché, perché erano stati svegli tutta la notte, no? Erano stravaccati, che aspettavano [emphasis] ‘aah signora’, e magnavano, bevevano felici e loro portavano la colazione a questi ragazzi del, e mi ricordo perfettamente i repubblichini cosiddetti, col basco dei tipi di [laughs] poco raccomandabili, e faccio vabbè [caughs] sul tetto eh, proprio sul tetto della casa, era tetto piano, no? E avevano fatto, c’erano dei pian - non mi ricordo, so che c’erano i cannoni, ma no, no - non è che gli ho - guardavo più il cibo cercando di [laughs] ero più attratto dalle cibarie, c’erano biscotti, roba buona insomma, ecco. Non ti so dire cosa avessero, mi ricordo [unclear] le robe che mi ricordo erano le scarpe di questi, pesanti, erano stravaccati. A proposito di fascisti. E a Azzate di fascisti c’era solo il podestà, questo qua, quello che si vantava dell’aereo e pochi, perchè era un paesino, non c’era niente.
PS: Questo dae - aereo dove era stato abbattuto? Cioé dove si trovava il relitto dell’aereo?
AP: Si trovava a metà strada tra Azzate e Vene - no, non Venegon, Azzate e Daverio, a metà tra Azzate e Daverio, ed era, fai conto, adagiato su un, come su una collina, come se avesse cercato di, di atterrare e si era fermato su una collina, ma in buone condizioni, non ti so dire i piloti o la roba dove fossero questi, non si sa, nessuno me lo ha detto, se erano morti. Ma probabilmente erano, probabilmente, saran scappati perché lì era pieno di partigiani e li avranno aiutati i partigiani ad andare in Svizzera, no? Un modo, cioè i partigiani io, perchè bastava, c’erano dei valichi dove arrivavi in Svizzera durante tutto il
MSP: a piedi
AP: periodo della guerra. Sì a piedi, sì, sì. Quindi, quelli eran spariti chiaramente. Beh no, non, non pareva molto danneggiato non, era color bianco - chiaro, beige, ma non si poteva andar vicini. C’erano solo quelli lì appunto della, tutti vestiti di nero, i soliti fascisti, che facevano gran vanto dell’abbattimento, tutto qua.
PS: Ed era un aereo americano?
AP: Americano, americano. Liber -. Cioè, un quadrimotore, quelli fatti a San Diego, adesso non mi viene il, no, no i B17, B24 poteva essere, sì. No quelli eran bimotori, quei grossi quadrimotori ad ala alta fai conto. Dopo l - dopo li ho riconosciuti da, da, da adulto ma sul momento… che non eran quelli con la, eran, ecco per darti un’idea, li ho riconosciuti dal mio ricordo, perchè avevano la coda, non era la coda singola ma era la coda doppia. Quindi erano, aveva quattro motori e la coda doppia, quindi dopo ho capito che erano quell’altro tipo di bombardieri, adesso non so dirti cosa fossero perché non è che sia un esperto di aerei.
PS: E puoi raccontarmi qualcosa di più del, dei partigiani?
AP: Dei partigiani, eh dei partigiani, ti ripeto, si sapeva che c’erano, sentivi di notte raffiche di mitra perché s - se davano la caccia ai fascisti, non si sapeva manco chi era che dava la caccia gli uni agli altri. Quello che era un incubo e, e non era tanto nostro, quanto delle case dei contadini dove avevano cibo, salami, formaggio, cioè depositi di - perchè i partigiani arrivavano e requisivano, no? Portavano via. Requisivano anche i tedeschi, ma i tedeschi requisivano e pagavano in, cosa c’era? Marchi d’occupazione, qualcosa del genere, so che pagavano, i tedeschi pagavano, anche se non serviva e niente quei soldi però ufficialmente pagavano. I partigiani invece requisivano e buonanotte ecco, e quindi erano temuti perché portavano via soprattutto proteine, salami, carne, tutto quello che c’era questo e quindi sentivo grand lamentele, tutti si lamentavano di questo e, e dopo agua - perché, praticamente, lì i tedeschi sono rimasti fino all’ultimo giorno, non, non, non è che, cioè, anzi do - dopo avevamo visto le colonne che andavano su in Germania di tedeschi eh, senza armi ma completamente col camion, tutti organizzati, in ordine, e quindi niente, e quindi i partigiani son venuti fuori all’ultimo giorno, prima se mettevan fuori il naso facevano una brutta fine, ecco. Di fatti ho visto quel famoso camion. Mia mamma aveva paura perché loro questi camion con ogni i partigiani arrivavano e, e molte volte sparavano in aria, sai come adesso vedi quelli di Gheddafi, ecco che sparavano in aria ‘ceva ‘guerra vinta’, ecco, e quindi volavano pallottole, perciò mia mamma mi aveva detto ‘sta - stai lontano dal-’
MSP: [unclear]
AP: invece io li ho visti, allora li ho visti arrivano con sti camion, camion scalcinati, sporchi, insomma poveri. Guerra, ecco. Ma contatti coi partigiani non, non ne abbiamo mai visti. Sapevamo che i contadini eran fuori di sé, anzi, molte volte non volevano darti la rob - cioè, ‘sono arrivati i partigiani ci han fregato tutto il latte, stanotte, sono arrivati i partigiani, ci han portato via tutto’ e invece, ‘e allora costa di più quello che ti diamo’, no? Mah, bisogna vedere se era vero o meno.
MSP: Business is business [laught]
AP: Si appunto. Quindi diciamo che di lotta partigiana non ho visto niente, ho visto solo che si approvvigionavano, questo sì.
PS: E tu avevi anche detto che vivevate in un vagamento di Milano
AP: Sì [coughs]
PS: Ti ricordi qualche episodio in particolare, cioè, le emozioni, qualche emozione?
AP: Beh, beh, sì, mia mamma è vero, eran tutti preoccupati perché vivevamo là per, per un certo periodo, stavan tutta la - tutta la famiglia di, di mia mamma era - e mia mamma erano di Milano, la casa di Azzate era un casa di campagna, ma loro avevan l’appartamento a Milano e, e l’appa - la casa di campagna. Quindi lì c’era tutte le cugine, tutte. C’era anche mia zia, sorella di mia mamma, ma è andata via dopo i primi bombardamenti, nel ‘43, perché gli hanno, gli han - gli han distrutto la casa, praticamente, è crollata la casa e abbiamo ancora noi qualche, qualche mobile che abbiamo recuperato. Queste poltrone esatto, che abbiam dovuto cambiare perché eran di pelle ma eran tutte macchiata perché erano rimasta a mezza e pioveva dentro nella casa. Mia zia povera dopo ha perso anche l’altra casa di Fossombrone, era giù in provincia di, di Pesaro, perché lì è passata la guerra e gli alleati han fatto saltare la casa che era la prima del, sulla strada Flaminia e quindi ci ha rimesso due case mia zia [laughs], completamente.
PS: Ah quindi è stata fatta saltare?
AP: Eh sì, perché questa cittadina, Fossombrone, è una cittadina come quasi tutte le cittadine costruite lungo le vie consolari ro - e le ex via consolari ro - cioè, la via consolare passava per il centro della cittadina, la cittadina era costruita ai lati. La casa di mio zio, cioè il marito di mia zia, era la prima e allora i tedeschi per bloccare la circolazione han fatto saltare la prima e l’ultima.
MSP: Mh
AP: E quindi tutta la casa è crollata, lui era scappato in una casa colonica, mio zio, ed era col binocolo che guardava cosa succede e ha visto improvvisamente tutta una parete lucida, era quella delle stampe, cioè han fatto cascar la casa perché guarda queste tutta riflette il sole sono le stampe della casa. Dopo lui l’ha restaurata negli anni dopo l’ha ereditata e l’ho venduta io e adesso [cought] ci son stato là parecchie volte, mezza casa era ancora un po’ poco abitabile, ma insomma. E lei ci ha rimesso l’appartamento di Milano e quindi mia madre erano preoccupati perché sapevano che [unclear] cioè tu vedevi praticamente di notte pe - sai era notte di campagna, uno in campagna e due di quegli anni non eran come le notti di oggi che sono luminose, cioè, di notte era notte ed era notte, vedevi le stelle e basta, niente di più, no? E quindi, se bombardavano Milano vedevi una specie di alone rosa, giallo rosa, ecco, perché gli incendi, perché buttavano soprattutto bombe incendiarie. Di fatti mi ricordo che una delle zie di mia mamma, la zia Ada, no? Stava in Via Castel Morrone a Milano, e si è trovata davanti un, un, un pilot - cioè, un aereo americano è venuto giù, un parac - uno col paracadute è venuto e lei aveva paura, poveretta che, perché era zoppa, non poteva scappare e quindi era rimasta a casa.
MSP: [cought]
AP: Nonostante il bombardamento, la casa vicina bruciava, la casa sua no, ma lei ha sentito strani rumori e si è trovata davanti a un pilota americano zopp - che non poteva camminare come lei perché aveva spaccato una gamba, un paracadutista, ecco. E raccontava sempre questo episodio, che poi il portinaio ha chiamato la polizia. [cought] Quindi Milano l’han bombardata pesantemente
MSP: [cought] [unclear]
AP: Soprattutto con spezzoni incendiari, quindi bruciava, bruciava, bruciava. Come Londra, come anche là han buttato anche incendiarie. Questo era il ricordo, però non, diciamo, ho visto un alone, ecco, niente di pi - si sapeva che bombardavano Milano.
PS: Quindi se ne parlava anche a casa?
AP: Sì, si si si, si si si, si si si. E sapevamo anche dai giornali che avevano bombardato Trieste, quindi mia mamma si preoccupava per i nomi.
MSP: [cought]
AP: Qui, di fatti, tieni conto che il seminario qua era sparito, c’era soltanto il, io quando son tornato nel ‘45 il seminario qua era totalmente vuoto, questo grande edificio. Questa casa qua, questa gialla qua era tutta completam - metà casa era distrutta, tu - tutta la parte esterna verso Via Besenghi era distrutta e una casa nell’altro angolo era sparita completamente. Io c’ho le foto della casa prima e dopo l’han costru - , l’han ricostruita nel ‘47. Casa nostra, cioè, ha preso una, e, degli sp - cioè pezzi del, della casa, della casa vicina di quella lì d’angolo sul, sul nostro tetto e ancora io ho dovuto far puntellare il tetto negli anni, quando è stato? Sì nel 2000 ci siamo accorti, c’era il tetto, e allora am - han - l’han sollevata c’eran dei, dei service, son venuti, erano abituati perché loro avevano avuto la guerra, mi hanno messo un crick per carri armati che ha so - sostenuto il tetto finché loro cambiavano il pezzo di trava, quindi, e poi lu - tutta la, qua la laminata che c’è davanti ha dei fori dentro, perché uno degli ultimi giorni di guerra, io non ero qua eh, mia nonna era in giardino, gli slavi stavano venendo su da Via Besenghi, dal porto praticamente, e i tedeschi dal San Luigi sparavano, e un proiettile di cannone, è passata una granata tra le due case, qua di fianco e ha distrutto quel muro di quelle case qua e le schegge sono arrivate qui. [coughs] E adesso questo non c’entra coi miei ricordi, ma ti racconto un episodio divertente perché vale la pena. Noi abbiamo un pozzo, in fondo al giardino, che ha acqua perenne perché è una risorgiva probabilmente, dal Carso, era la ragione per cui mio nonno ha comprato la casa, perché mio nonno veniva da Lussino dove c’eran solo cisterne e si moriva di tifo perché bastava, il pozzo, l’ha comprato. Però durante l - gli u - l’ultimo anno di guerra ogni tanto l’acqua mancava perché i bombardamenti, e allora bisognava, mio nonno, e cioè, ci hanno obbligato a permettere il rifornimento d’acqua da parte della gente, dei vicini. C’è un corridoio qua, cioè, io c’ho un portone ma qua c’è un’altra porta, portone sul giardino, e la gente faceva la fila per e, tutte le donne erano in fila, per prendere l’acqua, ecco. E allora, però è, era difficile metterli in ordine, e allora mio nonno è andato qua dalla caserma dove c’erano i tedeschi e ha detto ‘ma, ma datemi qualcuno che le tenga in ordine’ dice ‘no, non necessario, lo fai tu’, gli han messo il bracciale con la svastica e lui li teneva tè - e lui faceva il prepotente, faceva passare le più belle dicendo che erano in cinte e le altre lo maledivano [coughs] dicevano ‘dannato vecchio mm mm’ bon. Dopo di che
MSP: [laughs]
AP: Eh, dopo di che tedeschi è finito, finito tutto e da quassù arrivavano gli slavi, c’era una povera donnetta sciava che stava la la neh, la quale voleva contattarli ma non aveva il coraggio eccetera e mio nonno il coraggio se l’è fatto venire subito e corse in corso ‘brate voi fratello mio nee’ ha spiegato che lui aveva un pozzo e che riforniva tutti, son venuti gli slavi qua si sono riforniti al pozzo, poi gli han dato il bracciale con la stella rossa ed era di nuovo lui. [laught] E le donne erano inferocite ‘ma come de novo quel vecia?’ e mio nonno de novo le metteva in fila. E così è durato per tutto il periodo finché sono arrivati gli alleati e siccome mio nonno era il commissario di Bold [?] e parlava tedesco e, e, e, e inglese e anche spagnolo perché andava giù, ecco, e allora lui ha trovato gli alleati e gli alleati gli hanno dato l - di nuovo il boh, che era con su scritto, o gua - F F T T no aspetta, sì.
MSP: G M forse?
AP: T L T F T T, sì
MSP: Ah T L T
AP: Trieste Free Territory, e, e, ecco. Free?
PS: Free Territory of Trieste
AP: Free Trieste Territory! Free Trieste Territory, e, e, ha continuato finché finalmente han dato l’acqua eccetera, ma questo me l’hanno raccontato i vicini di casa, la signora era [unclear] che non ne potevano più di Petrina che le teneva a bada e come al solito faceva passare davanti le più belle e le più giovani [cought] e invece le lasciava dietro col secchio. [laught] Ma questo non è un ricordo mio perché io non ero qua.
PS: Tu quando poi sei venuto a, a Trieste?
AP: Nell’agosto del ‘45. Ricordo benissimo abbiamo fatto, questo è stato interessante, un viaggio in treno da Varese a Milano. E da Milano mi ricordo la stazione di Milano completamente, cioè tutti, non sei stato a Milano in stazione mai? È una stazione molto moderna, e ha una grande volta a vetri su, tutti i vetri eran tutti rotti, era tutto spaccato, tutto rotto, non c’era più niente, era un disastro, e anche i, i binari, il treno andava a passo d’uomo perché gran parte dei binari eran distrutti. Siamo partiti da Milano, siam passati e abbiamo visto il disastro, cioè, Verona era completamente, la stazione di Verona era, un, tutte le stazioni di Verona, Vicenza, in cui siam passati, eran disastri. Mi ricordo che ero molto impressionato perché siam passati su un fiume e, visibile c’era un altro ponte con una ferrovia praticamente che era, era, e, c’era un treno sul ponte che era rimasto sul ponte e il ponte era crollato c’eran dei - un vagone che penzolava quindi, e poi mi ricordo sugli altri ponti che eran distrutti, si passava a passo d’uomo.
MSP: A passo d’uomo
AP: Perché erano tutti in legno i ponti. Ricostruiti, e quindi si passava a passo d’uomo, a passo d’uomo. E così siamo arrivati a Venezia. A Venezia abbiamo dormito una notte e dopo non c’era più treno per Trieste allora mi ricordo mio padre ha trovato un furgoncino, un camion, che, pagato, ci ha portato. [coughs] Mi ricordo che ci siamo fermati a Monfalcone e c’era una sola luce, quindi, un piccolo bar con una sola luce, e dopo siamo arrivati a Trieste alle, molto tardi, di notte, circa a mezzanotte e c’erano ancora i tram però, e l’uno funzionava allora, abbiam preso il tram uno e siamo scesi in, s - salita per andare a San Giacomo dove c’è il, il, la scala Joyce, e dalla scala Joyce [coughs] abbiam fatto la scala Joyce, siamo arrivati fin su, era notte fatta, su cosa ho trovato? Su ho trovato che c’era per terra, perché per - dunque, qua, se tu vieni in fondo a Via Besenghi c’era uno stabilimento della ditta Beltrame, che costruiva divise, e, però, tutti, siccome lavorava giorno e notte i vetri erano oscurati e siccome la guerra era finita avevan buttato via tutti i vetri pitturati per terra e bisognava stare attenti perché era pieno di vetro rotti. E siccome dall’altra parte c’era un deposito militare tedesco, cioè devo adesso c’è il, il
MSP: La specola [?]
AP: Il Leonardo da Vinci
MSP: Eh? ah no
AP: No, la specola [?] il Leonardo da Vinci, fai conto, il cortile interno delle scuole, Oberdan e Da Vinci, ecco, che poi è vicino alla scala Joyce, ecco, lì c’erano i tedeschi, infatti lì c’eran tutti i mezzi tedeschi abbandonati che han fatto ruggine per vent’anni dopo, che poi li ha presi Enriquez e li ha portati qua, io mi ricordo il tragitto dei camion tedeschi che parte a rimorchio, che partivano non so da dove, da bambino, ma questo nel ‘48, dopo no? Quella notte siamo passati di lì, mi ricordo, ecco, altra cosa che c’erano i soliti elmetti tedeschi che io volevo beccare e non me li hanno lasciati prendere, ce n’erano per terra quanti volevi. [coughs] Ecco, e siamo arrivati qui dai nonni, finalmente, non potevamo suonare, abbiamo battuto e urlato perché non c’era corrente elettrica, son venuti con la candela a prenderci e, e, e da allora io abito qua. [coughs] Agosto ‘45.
PS: Hai dei ricordi legati al, ai giorni più vicini alla data della fine della guerra?
AP: Beh, sì uno è quello del - l’8 settembre, anche perché noi avevamo considerato la guerra finita, erano tutti felici c’era appunto chi cercava di vestirsi in borghese, di raccogliere, ecco sì. E dopo il 25 aprile, il 25 aprile, so che la notizia che correva più di tutti era che avevano attaccato Mussolini, quello me lo ricordo, ‘rché parlavano, erano tutti sconvolti, ma come? Cosa? A Milano, quindi si è saputo che la guerra era finita per questo. Più che altro la notizia è che avevano beccato Mussolini e lo avevano appeso in piazzale Loreto. Ecco que - questo è stato la fine della guerra, ecco. Ma altre novità, l’unica novità che ho visto alla fine della guerra, ero ancora a Varese, che ero rimasto male, è la pasta bianca, che prima la pasta era scura, mia mamma ha comprato la pasta bianca dicendo ‘è una meraviglia, è una meraviglia’ ma non aveva [unclear] molto diversa [laughs]. Io ti dico, dico le cose di un bambino, eh io. Ma diciamo de - sì, liberazione, non se ne poteva più insomma, in questo senso.
PS: Come lo hai vissuto in famiglia?
AP: Come?
PS: Come, non so, tua mamma ne parlava? Eh
AP: Sì, sì, sì, sì. Sì, ti ho detto che ascoltato il disco - l’ultimo discorso di Mussolini, mi ricordo era con la radio che ascoltava e io no - sentivo sta voce ma non capivo, non mi interessava, ecco. No, mia mamma, segui - ha seguito, comprava ogni giorno il Corriere della Sera quindi seguiva la cosa, cioè sapeva, ecco quello che mi ricordo che è stata una giornata in cui hanno tirato un respiro, mia mamma era molto contenta, quando hanno avuto la notizia che gli alleati erano sbarcati in Normandia, so che con altri amici che venivano [unclear] dicevano ‘ah è finita, è finita, se sono sbarcati la oramai la guerra è finita, questione di, questione di settimane’, quindi erano convinti che da la arrivavano a Berlino era finito tutto, [clears throat] e invece. Ma comunque c’era stato un diciamo, erano contenti ecco, che stava finendo, ecco. Perché non è, non ho sentito che ci fosse né grande odio né per gli uni né per gli altri quello, il sentimento che c’era è che non se ne poteva più perché mancava questo, mancava quello, mancava quest’altro, prima la smettono meglio è insomma. Questo era, non c’era politica ecco, diciamo non.
PS: Tu hai mai sentito parlare di Pippo?
AP: No, sì dai miei nonni, sapevo benissimo anche cos’era difatti ti ho detto era qu - [unclear], sì, sì, sì qua a Trieste c’era ma io non l’ho mai sentito perché non ero mai qua. Sono arrivato qua a guerra finita. Ed era fatto a scopo psicologico, ricognizione anche ma.
PS: Avevi sentito anche che cos’era, o?
AP: Sì, che era un aeroplano, che tutte le notti compariva cos - c’era questo rumore di un aeroplano che non si sapeva bene che cosa fosse perchè non bombardava però no, no - era più di uno tutti avevano ‘ecezione perché era voluto sfasando i motori, più di uno, però non si sapeva bene che cosa facesse, non era pericoloso ma poteva essere confuso con altri aeroplani che invece arrivavano e che erano pericolosi, a parte che c’era l’allarme eh. Tu lo sentivi, suonava, era fortissimo, io qua a Trieste non l’ho mai sentito perché non ero mai a Trieste ma gia anche lì a Azzate c’era l’allarme, suonava di notte e nessuno si muoveva perché [laughs] non tirava sicuro bombe lì sul [unclear]
PS: L’allarme per Pippo?
AP: No, non c’era no.
PS: No.
AP: No la no, la no. L’allarme suonava per i bombardamenti, ma. No, no que - questo del - [unclear] mai, cioè ne ho sentito parlare solo dai miei nonni e da amici e conoscenti ma io non. Dopo mi sono informato proprio dagli amici lì, dai b - [unclear] quelli eccetera e loro ‘sì, sì, sì’ e siccome era gente che si intendeva un po’ delle cose mi hanno anche spiegato di cosa si trattava. Che era un aereo, so anche un bimotore, un mosquito li chiamavano, inglese, era inglese [coughs] e, era stato studiato per guerra psicologica cioè aveva praticamente aveva larga autonomia, partiva da basi del, dell’Italia meridionale, perché loro erano bloccati a Cassino, no? Quindi partiva da - dall’Italia meridionale e stava per parecchio tempo su, su varie città, erano vari, erano una ventina di aerei praticamente. E davano l’idea, tenevano sotto pressione, impedivano alla gente di dormire, cr - creavano, panico insomma ecco.
PS: Ma quindi era più di uno?
AP: Sì, sì, sì. Sì, sì era fatto, proprio studiato, appositamente. Doveva essere inglese da quel che ho capito, ma non sono sicuro. Siccome non mi ha mai toccato non mi sono mai informato [laughs] più di tanto.
PS: Volevo solo chiederti ancora, quando suonava l’allarme? Hai detto che anche ad Azzate suonava l’allarme.
AP: Sì.
PS: Come, come vi comportavate?
AP: Bah, guarda le pri - la pri - io ricordo la prima volta, la prima volta che è suonato l’allarme allora siamo usciti di casa siamo andati fuori da un cancello e siamo andati in un prato vicino, mia madre ha disteso de - delle coperte e siamo stati lì, a aspettare. Dopo di che si è sentito il rumore degli aeroplani, non li vedevi perchè era di notte e poi dopo è passato il rumore degli aeroplani, chiaramente, su Varese [laughs] quelli non buttavano bombe sui prati dove eravamo noi. Questa la prima volta, la seconda volta boh, la terza volta non si è mosso nessuno. [clears throat] perché avevamo capito che non c’erano pericoli. L’unica volta, l’unica cosa che avevamo capito era che bombardavano la fabbrica di aerei, ma era dall’altra parte del lago quindi, una ventina di chilometri. L’unica cosa, ecco, ecco, l’unica cosa che io ero ghiotto è che i, dunque le bombe avevano la sicura, la sicura era un dunque, fa conto, la bomba, qua c’è la coda, no? Sai fatta così, no? Ecco, in, sul muso c’era una specie di vite che tu svitavi, perché se no era perico - svitavi prima del bombardamento e venivano svitate una per una e buttate giù, e, molte di queste si trovavano dall’altre parte del lago, due o tre erano probabilmente cadute anche nel nostro giardino, era grande così, bella, di metallo anche, non dico cromata ma bella, be - indubbiamente io ne avevo beccata una ed era arrivato un ragazzetto più grande di me e me l’ha fregata e quindi sono rimasto malissimo.
MSP: [laughs]
AP: Con gesto ratto me l’ha fregata ed è scappato lungo il viale che va beh bon. E io l’avevo trovata perché era cascata nel nostro giardino ed ero fiero cioè di avere questa roba. E poi l’altra cosa anche impressionante, bruta, era quando usavano i, i bengala, perchè per bombardare di notte la zona del lago lì la fabbrica ci, improvvisamente tu vedevi queste luci sinistre, prima sentivi gli aeroplani, poi vedevi queste luci erano verdi, verde giallo, che appese al paracadute che stavano, cioè, comparivano improvvisamente e venivano giù lente, lente, lente ma illuminavano tutto il lag - tutta la valle praticamente e quindi, illuminando l’obbiettivo, ecco. Questo è un altro ricordo di guerra, si come parlo mi viene in mente, sì, sì le luci. i bengala, i bengala.
PS: Questo lo hai visto più volte?
AP: Sì, sì, sì, sì, questo l’ho visto più volte. Di notte si svegliavano mamma e eh, ed io dalle finestre, no? Dalla finestra si vedeva, si vede, si vedeva i monti verso il lago e vedevi questo, tutta la valle illuminata praticamente, ma eran tanti eh. Ne buttavano una decina, ecco. Perchè poi scendevano, no? Scendevano e finivano basta e allora continuavano a buttarli.
PS: E questo era dall’altra parte del lago?
AP: E loro bombardav - sì, no, loro buttavano su tutto il lago anche dalla parte nostra, illuminavano tutta la valle, no? Sai come facevano i bombardieri, cioè loro non, non avevano il mirato come adesso, no? Loro avevano un angolo, passavano, avevano dei punti importanti, passavano su punti importanti e poi dopo sapevano che, con quella velocità con quello che e eh, su quella direttiva, dopo quel tempo mollavano le bombe e beccavano l’obiettivo, in genere non beccavano mai l’obbiettivo ma insomma. Avevano un sistema, gli americani e dopo in ultima aveva un sistema di mira perfezionato ma non so, andava dove andava poi c’era un po’ di vento, un po’, ma questo io allora non lo sapevo. Quello delle luci, si è, era un, delle luci sgradevoli, come un, ti davano un senso un, era una luce verdastra, fai conto, verde e gialla, molto.
PS: Però, come, che emozioni provavi quando vedevi.
AP: Non paura. Che avevo capito subito, pur essendo bambino avevo capito subito che le bombe in testa a noi non ci venivano, ecco, quindi non paura, era interesse più che altro. Ma era un interesse sempre frustrato dagli interventi di madre e nonna, che cercavano di dire ‘povero bambino, non deve vedere gli orrori della guerra’ e quindi ogni volta venivo trattenuto. Io ero avido di vedere le cose, [laughs] ma, ma c’era o chi mi tappava gli occhi, chi mi metteva in cantina e chi mi metteva a letto. Mentre io volevo vedere, le bombe, il fuoco, ma insomma e, ero un bambino, ecco. Non ero assolutamente, cioè mi rendevo conto che non correvo nessun pericolo probabilmente se avessi corso pericolo avrei avuto la paura di mia moglie, ecco. Ma, ne è Capodistria ne, non c’eran pericoli.
PS: Abbiamo quasi finito
AP: Bene
PS: Solo ancora una o due domande in conclusione
AP: Sì
PS: Che cosa pensavi quando vedevi quelle luci e si vedeva il bagliore di Milano?
AP: Interessante, bello, e come posso dirti? Io avevo tutto il giorno i soldatini e quindi per me era un episodio di guerra interessantissimo, bello, ma non, non, non, cioè, non provavo né orrore, né pietà, né paura, niente di tutto questo [laughs] guarda come mi guarda mia moglie, beh è la verità, purtroppo
MSP: Sì
AP: [coughs] è, è, era soltanto interessante, ‘oh per bacco, bello! qualcosa di nuovo!’ era un po’ un noioso star lì in campagna, non c’era niente, mangiati quei quattro frutti, mangiate quelle quattro robe, avevo sti quattro giocattolini, ma era un po’ noiosetto e, e questo in fondo era molto, come posso dire? Interessante, ecco, vedevi stanno bombardando Milano, ‘ah guarda e - e - il fuoco’, stan bombardando lo stabilimento ‘ah guarda!’ ecco, era qualcosa di nuovo, insomma. Eh, devi tener conto della psico - la psiche di un bambino, insomma, non, non mi rendevo conto. Né mia madre era tipa che, che si sciogliesse tanto nel dolore, ecco, non era il tipo. Le donne longobarde non sono [laughs] mia moglie era piut - mia mamma era una piuttosto vispa, insomma, non è che, non è quelle - l’unica volta che li ho visti preoccupati è stata quella volta di Dresda. Per cui evidentemente quelli camminavano molto, molto ma ba - a bassa quota, era guerra quasi finita, non temeva contraerea, e quindi tremava tutta la casa, questo me lo ricordo anch’io, tremava per ore, tremava tutta la casa, passano molto bassi evidentemente, e allora mi ricordo che di notte erano lì con la candela, mia nonna pregava e mia mamma un po’ meno, ma insomma eran sveglie ecco. [clears throat]
PS: E [clears throat] in occasione di questo episodio qui voi eravate in casa?
AP: Sì, sì, sì. Io ero a letto, loro due erano sveglie ecco, la candela che z - chi pregava e ch - io ero a letto bambino e bam bom e perché era febbraio era un freddo cane tra l’altro lì non - sì, tra l’altro, altro episodio che è interessante il camino, cioè c’era un camino, mia nonna aveva un, una specie di tinello con un camino che non tirava bene, metteva e accendeva il fuoco e veniva fumo. E io mi son mangiato tanto fumo, in quegli anni, tanto fastidio che non ho mai più fumato in vita mia. Cioè non ho mai fumato una sigaretta è, vero? Solo una volta mia ma - moglie mi ha dato una pipa, perché mio suocero aveva, da uomo, mio suocero era comandante superiore e quindi, abbiamo ereditato delle pipe, me ne ha data una ma son stato talmente male che ho rinunciato che. Quindi c’era questo episodio del fumo che mi veniva negli occhi ecco, e perciò faceva un freddo cane, perchè poi va, lì Azzate, Varese son zone molto più fredde, son vicine alle prealpi ecco, quindi io durante il famoso episodio io stavo a letto rintanato, e loro due p - erano preoccupate.
PS: Quando [clears throat] quando ti eri reso conto, quando avevi saputo che quegli aerei erano diretti a Dresda?
AP: Subito. Il giorno n - due o tre giorni dopo sui giornali, perché la repubblica sociale che, sarà stato ‘crimini! criminali!’ perché veniva, i giornali chiaramente li consideravano criminali e, hanno, e e, parlava del, del disastro, sai che Dresda ci son stati non so quanti morti, la città è - e poi aveva preso fuoco tutto, insomma era un disastro e quindi abbiamo capito che andavano, che erano andati a Dresda ecco, perché lì stessa notte, stessa, che, che. Mia mamma aveva capito subito che era Dresda. Che avevano fatto quel disastro che han fatto, no? Quello che non ho mai capito neanche dopo io, da dove fossero partiti e, perché avevo l’impressione che venissero come, cioè passavano sopra, almeno quelli che ho visto di giorno, venivano da l - da sud e andavano verso, verso nord, nord ovest, ecco, passavano obliqui sopra la casa, ecco. Questo, questo però non, non è delle mie memorie, questo l’ho ricostruito dopo. Da dove partissero non, non ho la più pallida idea. Però ho l’impressione che, perché l’ho letto da altre parti, che facessero una specie di, cioè loro si appoggiavano su due aeroporti, uno, per dire, in Inghilterra e uno nell’Italia meridionale, e che partissero dall’Italia meridionale, bombardassero e poi atterrassero in Inghilterra, mentre quelli dell’Inghilterra partivano, bombardavano e atte - e atterravano nell’Italia meridionale, cioè non è che tornassero indietro, ecco. Forse l’autonomia non lo so, non. Ma credo che fosse così, usavano, si appoggiavano su due aereoporti.
PS: E quegli ae - gli ae- quegli aerei non li avete visti perché.
AP: No, quelli di notte non li abbiamo visti, erano sicuramente erano inglesi perché erano molto bassi e di notte, gli americani sì, li vedevamo, però non vedevamo niente, vede - hai presente come sono i jet adesso? Camminavano a otto, novemila metri come i jet di oggi, tu vedevi un puntino luminoso, solo che adesso tu vedi un puntino, là ne vedevi dieci, dieci puntini con tutte le, le scie perchè era, dieci, quanti erano insomma, non, non so dirti, non c’erano, cioè tu di solito te li fan vedere in formazione, no, eran messi così come capita e vedevi solo la scia e un lampo di luce quando giravano o quando e, ma eran talmente alti che non vedevi niente.
PS: A casa, si era poi parlato del, del bombardamento, cioè tua mamma
AP: Sì sì
PS: Aveva detto qualcosa?
AP: Sì sì sì sì, era terrorizzata, piangeva, soprattutto si preoccupava tanto perché io avrei dovuto andare a scuola, l’anno dopo, ed era successo il bombardamente di Gorla, non so se sai la cosa, sai la storia no? Ecco, che avevano preso in pieno a Milano una scuola, dovevano prendere un’officina e son morti non so quanti bambini, mi ricordo che mia mamma era impressionatissima e leggeva sul Corriere della Sera, che poi era, era gonfiata dalla propaganda perché era Repubblica Sociale, no? Dell’episodio di Gorla, era terrorizzata. Ecco. Sì, sì se ne parlava eccome, c’era paura. C’era paura perché poi lei pensava che la guerra finita non avrei potuto restare a lì nel pasino, avremmo dovuto, se mio padre tornava, non si sapeva se tornare a Trieste perché pareva che Trieste fosse occupata dagl - diventasse Jugoslavia e quindi era un problema. E sennò saremmo stati a Milano ma, e l - se la guerra non finiva Milano aveva i bombardamen - insomma c’era grande preoccupazione. Questo sì. Soprattutto la storia di Gorla, vedo che sapevi. Ma chi l’ha fatta? Americani, mi pare, di giorno no era? Eh sì, eh sì di giorno eh. Sì, i bambini a scuola.
AP: Allora, eh, ti faccio ancora l’ultimissima domanda
PS: Sì, tranquillo!
AP: Tutto quello che fino adesso mi hai detto è stato estremamente interessante e
PS: Grazie
AP: [clears throat] Adesso a più di settant’anni dalla fine della guerra, pensando a quel tempo
PS: Sì
AP: Come vedi le cose, come pensi sia l -
PS: Come penso
AP: Alla guerra, anche ai bombardamenti, come.
PS: Beh, intanto io sono convinto che la guerra sia un fallimento della diplomazia. Io son laureato in scienze politiche, quindi ho avuto una preparazione per la diplomazia e penso che quella si possa fare tutto, ovviamente quando la diplomazia non, manca si fa la guerra. E, la guerra, cosa vuoi? Eh, cioè, erano guerre però diverse da quelle di oggi, cioè, erano guerre e, pa - come posso dire? C’è un termine da usare, aspetta, cioè, erano guerre tra eserciti, ecco. Questo è il problema. E quindi gran parte di quelli che combattevano non, non combat - non erano, non combattevano una guerra ideologica, ci saran stati dei reparti speciali, la camicie nere e, e le SS, sì, ecco, ma era una guerra simmetrica soprattutto erano eserciti contro eserciti, quindi la maggior parte era gente che faceva il proprio dovere. Giusto? Cioè me lo sono posto anch’io quando, ufficiale della brigata missili, ero nella, nelle condizioni di poter e - insieme con gli ameri - mericani sparare un, un Honest John, un missile Honest John, con testata nucleare, spararglielo verso, verso il confine, e e, de - della Cecoslovacchia [clears throat] mi s - mi ero chie - ecco, però in quel momento lì non è che io odiassi i russi, odiassi i ghe - e - esatto. Dopo, avevo contattato anche un amico, no? Cecoslovacco, dopo, un modellista il quale mi ha detto che lui era dall’altra parte esattamente coi missili anche lui, poi ci siamo incontrati che facevamo modelli di navi e - ecco, per capire. Quindi pensavo, io penso questo, cioè che purtroppo le guerre e, cioè, non c’è odio da una parte o dall’altra in genere. Adesso le guerre sono diverse, perché adesso sono guerre asimmetriche e quindi sono, da una parte c - c’è l’odio e dall’altra, ecco. Ma rispetto a una guerra no, non, gli unici che eran pericolosi, temuti, erano gli jugoslavi, perché gli alleati dopo che son venuti qua erano assolutamente amici, erano assolutamente, non eran pericolosi, ecco, né, n - né i, noi abbiamo avuto l’impressione che lo fossero i tedeschi, perché, cioè, avranno f - sì, effettivamente lì a Capodistria, dopo che loro ci hanno mi hanno l - la fetta di pane, c’hanno vuotata il pozzo nero, hanno salutato tutti e, e se ne sono andati, dopo per l - due giorni, abbiamo continuato a sentire odor di fumo perché loro hanno, praticamente c’erano dei villaggi che sicuramente avevano dato aiuto ai partigiani e loro li hanno rasi al suolo, la gente è scappata e loro hanno raso al suolo tutto, hanno macellato gli animali, mangiato tutto e, e dopo hanno chiamato gli italiani, a vuot - perché han trovato le foibe, a tirar fuori, non li han tirati fuori loro, e anche gli han mandato gli italiani giù a, a tirar fuori dalle foibe, dopo li han portati a Capodistria, ma io quelli non le ho viste, so che c’era un punto dove avevano messo tutte le bare con tutti i - praticamente che erano poi in decomposizione, insomma, era una roba, mia mamma mi ha raccontato ma io non, non ho visto niente di tutto questo. L’unica roba che ho visto e sentito è l’odor di fumo [laughs] e che nella notte c’era per due giorni che i tedeschi avevano, qua, a suon di lanciafiamme avevano distrutto il monte di Capodistria e altri villaggi lì in giro, perché avevano dato asilo ai partigiani, questo so. Questo è l’unico.
PS: Va bene
AP: Sì
PS: Grazie mille
AP: A voi per l’ascolto
PS: Per la disponibilità e per aver acconsentito l’intervista anche a nome dell’Internation Bomber Command Centre e
AP: Grazie
PS: Grazie ancora
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Aldo Petrina
Description
An account of the resource
Aldo Petrina lived in Capodistria with his family until March 1944. Recollects a day when a German warned his mother that they risk being thrown in a karst sinkhole. because they did not speak Slovenian. All the family the moved to Varese, where he witnesses the bombing of the Macchi warks, with the whole valley light up by flares. Describes a Liberator shot down by Swiss anti-aircraft fire. Recollects the story of his father escape form Cephalonia. Aldo Petrina came back in Trieste in 1945, his father returned home only after the war.
Creator
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Peter Schulze
Date
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2018-01-09
Contributor
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Zeno Gaiaschi
Format
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00:27:11 audio recording
Language
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ita
Type
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Sound
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Greece
Slovenia
Italy--Po River Valley
Greece--Cephalonia (Municipality)
Slovenia--Koper
Italy--Trieste
Italy--Varese
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Temporal Coverage
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1943-09-08
Identifier
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APetrinaA180109
PPetrinaA1801
anti-aircraft fire
B-24
bombing
childhood in wartime
home front
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/446/7911/ABozziF170712.1.mp3
7231d73624122158e1222380cee96971
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bozzi, Francesco
Francesco Bozzi
F Bozzi
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Francesco Bozzi who recollects his wartime experiences in Greece and in the Po River valley area.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-07-12
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bozzi, F
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Francesco Bozzi
Description
An account of the resource
Francesco Bozzi reminisces about his military training followed by service in Greece. Describes harsh living conditions while in Germany-occupied Crete after September 1943: hard labour, scarce food, punishment, brutalities, being wounded while digging a tunnel, bombings, and Allied attacks of Italian convoys packed with soldiers. Describes being hospitalised in Italy and mentions the disruption of transport, destroyed bridges, strafing, and aggressive behaviour of partisans. Mentions a cache of arms discovered by chance after the war.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Filippo Andi
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-12
Format
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00:29:20 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
ita
Type
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Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Greece--Crete
Italy
Italy--Po River Valley
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABozziF170712
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Conforms To
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Pending OH transcription
bombing
forced labour
Resistance
strafing
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/7914/LGodfreyCR1281391v10001.2.pdf
2bb4feee369606f050f7e0e0563b6922
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Godfrey, Charles Randall
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Description
An account of the resource
64 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Charles Randall Godfrey DFC (b. 1921, 146099, Royal Air Force) and consists of his logbook and operational notes, items of memorabilia, association memberships, personnel documentation, medals and photographs. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron. He flew as a wireless operator in the crew of Squadron Leader Ian Willoughby Bazalgette VC.
The collection has has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Charles Godfrey and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Godfrey, CR
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-18
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Godfey's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LGodfreyCR1281391v10001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Egypt
France
Libya
Greece
Germany
Gibraltar
Great Britain
Netherlands
Scotland
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Belgium--Haine-Saint-Pierre
Egypt--Alexandria
Egypt--Cairo
Egypt--Ismailia (Province)
Egypt--Marsá Maṭrūḥ
Egypt--Tall al-Ḍabʻah
England--Berkshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cumbria
England--Devon
England--Gloucestershire
England--Hampshire
England--Kent
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Northumberland
England--Oxfordshire
England--Rutland
England--Shropshire
England--Suffolk
England--Wiltshire
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
France--Angers
France--Caen
France--Creil
France--Mantes-la-Jolie
France--Nucourt
France--Rennes
Germany--Wiesbaden
Germany--Berchtesgaden
Germany--Bottrop
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Dorsten
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Kleve (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Mainz (Rhineland-Palatinate)
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Osnabrück
Germany--Osterfeld
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Troisdorf
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Wesseling
Greece--Ērakleion
Greece--Piraeus
Libya--Darnah
Libya--Tobruk
Netherlands--Hasselt
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Scotland--Moray
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
England--Cornwall (County)
North Africa
Libya--Banghāzī
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Libya--Gazala
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1942-03-23
1942-06-10
1942-06-11
1942-06-12
1942-06-13
1942-06-14
1942-06-15
1942-06-16
1942-06-17
1942-06-18
1942-06-19
1942-06-20
1942-06-22
1942-06-23
1942-06-24
1942-06-25
1942-06-26
1942-06-28
1942-06-29
1942-07-02
1942-07-03
1942-07-05
1942-07-08
1942-07-09
1942-07-10
1942-07-12
1942-07-13
1942-07-15
1942-07-16
1942-07-17
1942-07-19
1942-07-20
1942-07-25
1942-07-26
1942-07-28
1942-07-29
1942-07-31
1942-08-01
1942-08-06
1942-08-07
1942-08-08
1942-08-09
1942-08-14
1942-08-15
1942-08-16
1942-08-17
1942-08-18
1942-08-19
1942-08-21
1942-08-22
1942-08-23
1942-08-24
1942-08-25
1942-08-26
1942-08-27
1942-08-28
1942-08-29
1942-08-30
1942-08-31
1942-09-01
1942-09-03
1942-09-05
1942-09-06
1942-09-08
1942-09-09
1944-05-06
1944-05-08
1944-05-12
1944-05-13
1944-05-27
1944-05-28
1944-05-29
1944-06-05
1944-06-07
1944-06-08
1944-06-09
1944-06-12
1944-06-13
1944-06-15
1944-06-16
1944-06-23
1944-06-24
1944-07-07
1944-07-09
1944-07-10
1944-07-14
1944-07-15
1944-07-16
1944-07-18
1944-07-19
1944-07-20
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-25
1944-07-26
1944-07-28
1944-07-29
1944-07-30
1944-08-01
1944-08-04
1944-11-17
1944-11-18
1944-12-04
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-12
1944-12-15
1944-12-18
1944-12-24
1944-12-28
1944-12-29
1945-01-01
1945-01-02
1945-01-05
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-01-23
1945-02-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-03
1945-02-04
1945-02-07
1945-02-08
1945-02-09
1945-02-14
1945-02-15
1945-02-18
1945-02-20
1945-02-21
1945-03-07
1945-03-08
1945-03-22
1945-03-24
1945-03-25
1945-03-31
1945-04-11
1945-04-13
1945-04-14
1945-04-25
1945-04-30
1945-05-05
1945-05-07
1945-05-15
1945-05-22
1945-06-08
1945-06-18
1945-08-03
1945-08-05
1944-06-06
1944-08-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Description
An account of the resource
Observer's and air gunner's flying log book for Pilot Officer Godfrey from 3 of February 1941 to 25 of September 1945 detailing training schedule, instructional duties and operations flown. Aircraft flown were Dominie, Proctor, Wellington, Hampden, Anson, Defiant, Martinet, Stirling, Lancaster, C-47 and Oxford. He was stationed at RAF Manby, RAF Bassingbourn, RAF Harwell, RAF Lossiemouth, RAF Downham Market, RAF Hemswell, RAF Wittering, RAF Abingdon, RAF Upper- Heyford, RAF Upwood, RAF Gillingham, RAF Cranwell, RAF Melton Mowbray, RAF Church Fenton, RAF Market Drayton, RAF Waddington, RAF Upavon, RAF Sywell, RAF Carlisle, RAF Linton-On-Ouse, RAF Newbury, RAF Cottesmore, RAF Brize Norton, RAF Exeter, RAF Andover, RAF Hampstead Norris, RAF Hythe, RAF Gibraltar, RAF St Eval, RAF El Dabba, RAF Shaluffa, RAF Abu Sueir, RAF Almaza, RAF Blyton, RAF Ingham, RAF Marston Moor, RAF Leeming, RAF Acklington, RAF Middleton St. George, RAF Newmarket, RAF Moreton-in-Marsh, RAF Leconfield, RAF Skipton-on-Swale, RAF Wyton, RAF Warboys, RAF Westcott, RAF Gravely and RAF Worcester. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron to targets in Belgium, France and Germany. Targets included: Heraklion, Piraeus, Derna, Tamimi, Benghazi Harbour, Gazala, Mersa Matruh, Ras El Shaqiq, El Daba, Tobruk, Fuqa, Quatafiya, Düren, Munster, Mantes- Gassicourt rail yards, Haine St. Pierre rail yards, Hasselt rail yards, Rennes, Angers rail yards, Caen, Ravigny rail yards, Nucourt, Wesseling oil refineries, L’Hey, Kiel, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Notre Dame, Trossy St. Maximin, Karlsruhe, Merseburg, Essen, Ludwigshafen, Duisburg, Dusseldorf, Mönchengladbach, Troisdorf, Dortmund, Nuremberg, Hannover, Munich, Gelsenkirchen, Mainz, Wiesbaden, Osterfeld, Kleve, Wanne- Eickel, Chemnitz, Wesel, Worms, Hemmingstedt, Dorsten, Bottrop, Osnabruck, Berchtesgaden, Ypenburg and Rotterdam. Notable events are that Charles Godfrey undertook a search and rescue operation in a Defiant and during the operation to Trossy St Maximin 4 August 1944 his aircraft, Lancaster ND811, was brought down by anti-aircraft fire. Whilst he survived and evaded, his pilot, Ian Willoughby Bazalgette was awarded the Posthumous Victoria Cross. The hand written notes added to the end of the log book give a description to the crash, and his attempts to evade capture. Pilot Officer Godfrey also took part in Operation Manna, Operation Exodus and Operation Dodge.
11 OTU
15 OTU
20 OTU
37 Squadron
635 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
C-47
Cook’s tour
Defiant
Dominie
evading
Hampden
killed in action
Lancaster
Martinet
missing in action
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
Pathfinders
Proctor
RAF Abingdon
RAF Andover
RAF Bassingbourn
RAF Blyton
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Carlisle
RAF Church Fenton
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Cranwell
RAF Downham Market
RAF Graveley
RAF Hampstead Norris
RAF Harwell
RAF Hemswell
RAF Ingham
RAF Leconfield
RAF Leeming
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Manby
RAF Marston Moor
RAF Melton Mowbray
RAF Middleton St George
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Newmarket
RAF Skipton on Swale
RAF St Eval
RAF Sywell
RAF Upavon
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Upwood
RAF Waddington
RAF Warboys
RAF Westcott
RAF Wittering
RAF Wyton
shot down
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
Victoria Cross
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/8359/PBrileyWG1502.2.jpg
88f12b161e5a47cf71c561733e1c9465
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/8359/ABrileyW150522.1.mp3
18e7d5718da098c6dae85ec69ead9533
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/8359/PBrileyWG1503.2.jpg
ccd30a6b9b18cea87c0269a963f6dc2b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Briley, William George
George Briley
W G Briley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Briley, WG
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer William George Briley (1586825, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and a sight log book containing <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/987">18 target photographs</a>. After training in South Africa, George Briley completed 39 bombing and supply dropping operations as a navigator with 40 Squadron flying Wellingtons from Foggia in Italy. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by William George Briley and catalogued by Barry Hunter, <span>with additional identification provided by the Archeologi dell'Aria research group (</span><a href="https://www.archeologidellaria.org/">https://www.archeologidellaria.org</a><span>)</span>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
MJ: Now.
WB: My name is Warrant Officer Briley. I’m recording this for the International Bomber Command Centre on 22 May 19 - 2015. And we - where I am is at Ruskington in Lincolnshire. I’ll try and see if I can. Well, my first big run to get to a training place was down to South Africa where I stayed for five months and picked up my brevet. And then, where I, I came back down by flying boat which took four days from Durban to Cairo. From then onwards, I was doing all around that area until they had vacancies up on the training field where the temperature of 150 – 120 was very warm. Then we got back down to Cairo and for - picked up me flight to Italy where I went through Naples and out then to Foggia where I stayed with the 40 Squadron the whole time until I’d finished my term, and then I went back to Naples and they gave me a [unclear]. That gave me a lot more places and also I was sent up to Athens where I was a gunner on on private Wellingtons that had been stripped with passengers and freight all over the Middle East. Then then I was – land – I was - oh sorry. After we done all that I was land down – I was down on the ground there until they got me a job back on Egypt where they sent me up to Udine in northern Italy. No no way of getting up there, but I went out and a British army driver took me all the way, which was very good of him, and the little – when I got up there they hadn’t a clue what I was doing up there for, although they knew themselves, 39 Squadron it was and they gave me a leave over the weekend when I got there and there’s a chance I had of seeing and being in Venice in the holiday part of the RAF they had out there. We came back by a big – by a big plane from Bari having had a train journey all the way back. And that landed me on besides the besides the canal on the Suez Canal and from there we were doing I was doing quite a lot of driving which I wanted to do until they found a place for me which was in El Alamein[?] Back to Cairo and on to the flying the flying out to El Adam [?]. And I stayed here that’s where I picked up my WO. And I and I was put in charge, once I got away the driving they put me in charge of a sy – system well, well in in in an where the people going through and also the pilots and that. I had to, had to sign them through. Some didn’t want to do that and but then they had to. They got no signature otherwise. Anyway, from there that’s when I was sent – I was on leave then at the end and I made out. I picked up my brother who was in Cairo or rather he was up in – he was up in Palestine. Picked him up, we went to Haifa and stayed a fortnight. We enjoyed ourselves. I, I was lucky in that ‘cause I – that’s one brother. The other brother I picked up on the way in at Cairo. So I doubt if there were many other brothers who met du – met during the war. So [unclear] in the end it – we came by boat from Alexandria to Toulon. Waited there for the train back to England. And came – got back in June. One of the coldest Junes I think I knew at that time, especially when you’d been at a temperature of a hundred-and-twenty and that. Now the temperature here went across that boat was really ferocious. And then we was sent up to Wednesbury for discharge. They had to make a suit for me I was so ruddy small and out of all proportion and today I’m even worse. The trouble is I aint going in. I was dead on the lowest figure. When I was on the Foggia we took off from Foggia and went down the Corinth Canal or to it, where we had been told there was a big storm up. It’s too high to go over. Too low to go under. So we were given a height which was about the best. As we came into it. Here we go, the thing is we went up like a ruddy express [mumble] express lift, and stopped and went down straight away, and oh my head hit the blooming geodetics. It, it was so loud the pilot put - turned put it hard head round. He said: ‘What was that?’ I said ‘That was my flipping head.’ [Chuckles] It was yeah.
MJ: Yeah yeah.
WB: Yeah, we got through it and carried on. [Chuckle]
MJ: Well, well that’s the sort of thing –
WB: Yeah
MJ: - that you got to remember, you know.
WB: Hmm. [Chuckle].
MJ: What was it about the bridge?
WB: Eh?
MJ: That one about the bridge? You said about the [unclear]. Can you repeat that?
WB: Yes.
MJ: Please.
WB: [Sigh] [Background noise] I done that one.
MJ: So, so what was the story about that one?
WB: No, it’s not. It’s this one. The one with the four-thousand pound bomb. Kitzscher [?] And – our – well I was quite, quite surprised, you know, you see, where this bomb was. It was only a big hole that was there and they – one of the Italians came about and said ‘What you looking at it for?’ I said ‘I got an idea that’s our bomb.’ ‘Oh,’ he said – he said ‘What has happened?’ He said ’There were two trains on that bridge when you dropped it.’ He said ’One of them went into it to– [unclear] into reinforcements and one coming out. He said: ‘The one coming out got the bar –part of it. The whole the back of [unclear] train and that other one run into the hole that was there. [Chuckle] He says: ‘So you done a damn good job.’ [Laughter]. I’ve never been seen anybody about that - the crew I could tell to.
MJ: Well that’s -
WB: Yeah.
MJ: That’s the good part about it.
WB: Apparently in the Blitz –
MJ: Yeah.
WB: The eight months Blitz. Every night. [Chuckle]. And, it’s so much so I managed to get it out of – but other people commanding me. ‘I can’t go on the back of this bike.’ I said ‘Why not?’ He said ‘Well, I’m out in the open.’ I should have sat on mine all the time. [Chuckle] Any rate, in the end, a number of them complained about it and but, they were more or less protecting me. [Laugh]. I can see their point and any way, they said – they asked me whether I’d like to learn how to drive. I said ‘I would very much.’ And so they brought a driver in from a local gas company depot and he said ‘Now, let’s see. What do you wanna learn?’ I said: ‘Anything I can drive. I was able to – so lorries and that.’ ‘Ah, so you want double declutching.’ You know to this day, and that was in the war. To this day, I still use, I didn’t realise it, part of the double declutching.
MJ: Hm.
WB: Right the way through, and it was only my sister who told me that my changing up and changing down and that was smooth, and I can’t see how it – how it can be smooth? And I worked it out. The – I wasn’t doing the whole double declutching, what I was doing – now with double declutching you use your feet as well. That’s all I wasn’t doing. [Mumble] Step in here.
MJ: Here. It’s good. What – what –
WB: What?
MJ: What – what sort of ops and things did you actually stand out for one reason of another?
WB: What you want me to do?
MJ: I’m here.
WB: Supplied it and then I went and got – I went there to be of service there. [Laughter]. All on one aerodrome. We called it Kalamaki Avenue[?]. It was –
MJ: So – what ‘s that bit of paper?
WB: Yeah. [Unclear]. Can’t hardly read it now. [Unclear] Penetration. Frontal conditions. Last night your bombers carried out their mission with excellent results. This attack which – which you carried out [unclear] or in the port of crews participated. Please convey to all ranks under your command my opposition – appreciation of this noteworthy effort. That was from the Group Captain commanding 263 Wing.
MJ: What did you have to do in that?
WB: Hm?
MJ: What what what was the op? Operation? What operation – what?
WB: Oh these aerodromes.
MJ: You say you had to bomb them? Or –
WB: No, it – thing is they were all bombed on one night by different – they sent out the squadron. Three or four to one – three or four to [unclear].
MJ:
WB: I don’t think that was the one that hit me on the head. I hadn’t been given my flight badge then. I was just a Sergeant. [Pause]. 9th to the 10th of October 1944 [turning of pages] 9 10 of October –
MJ: What was that op?
WB: Hm.
MJ: What did you have to do for that one?
WB: [Pause] On the – on the 4th – 4th of October ’44 we went to the Danube and put a mine – two mines down there. Have having had to fly there at thirty foot and then there was a a – I think there was haystacks even higher than we were. So I was expecting anytime that we – that we should get a gun from behind them. Then the next one we went on the 9th we went to Athens, we did that and they were put for us they were pretty long trips. Athens six hours and the Danube was five fifty-one.
MJ: So what – why did you that one to similar to the Dam Busters one. Why?
WB: It was the [unclear] valley. There’s the valley. South, it was south of one of their big cities. I forget which one it was. Began with a B, I know that. [Laughter].
MJ: So what did you have to do that made it similar to the other dams? Did you have to go lower or was it just too hot or what?
WB: While we kept low was to get underneath their mining thing and also we were down there so as we could get in underneath it and without them noticing it, and we didn’t – did manage it seems ‘cause nobody came to try and have a go at us. Then five days later we went over there again. Not this to the Danube which was up south of a – a big city beginning with B, I think it was. And this this second one, our eleventh was on Kalamaki operation bombed over flares. So we had two long ones. [Pause] I know that we bombed one of the American bombings. They gave us a photo of what they had left. When we got there it hadn’t even been touched. So we had to do all the bombing for them. That’s the Americans all along, which I never did quite like.
MJ: [Unclear]
WB: [Unclear]. More modern, modern aircraft and that. I mean the Wellington was a pre-war, but we had it all the way through the war out there.
MJ: So did you fly different aircraft more often or just one particular one? ‘Cause you got –
WB: You could hardly see the blinder[?]. All I know is it was going off track and I couldn’t I couldn’t get the thing to go in at all. In the end, when he when he went ran out of [unclear] I expect and well that’s that. He said ‘[Unclear] Which way you going? I said ‘No, you’re too late to go the back.’ I said ‘So turn on and face, face Yugoslavia.’ And I said ‘When you get - as soon as you’ve seen the mountains over there, turn south. Don’t wait for me.’ I said ‘Then we’ll sort – start sorting out some.’ Anyway I got ‘em back in.
MJ: So what happened when you got to base then?
WB: Then – then I was a bit late when I got, of course, when we got in. But after that on three occasions I got them to go another route because there was a blooming eight-hundred – and sent us out on our own valley, there was a hill eight-hundred foot high and quite often the clouds comes came down so they forced them under the thousand so I sort of – ‘What’s the matter Briley?’ I said : ‘There’s a hill in that valley eight hundred foot.’ Said ‘Yeah.’ So he turned round to his thing[?]and said ‘Go and see if he’s right.’ The bloke said when he came back he said : ‘He’s right.’ ‘Oh, sent him round the end of the peninsula.’ That happened three times. I had to – ‘cause I knew where it was. I was coming in through the valley at two-thousand in the cloud dived down at the end where I knew it’d be.’ ‘Didn’t you – didn’t you see the target?’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘Well how come you came back here half-hour before any others [unclear]. I said ‘’Cause I used the valley.’ ‘But you told us.’ ‘But yeah I know where it is.’
MJ: So you took a short cut?
WB: Yep. You see the second time he was sending me down for – I I didn’t do much on that. I knew it – I knew how it was. So so we had a look down at it and found this thing this hill. ‘Right we can use that.’ I did on three occasions. Got back in. Nice time I was the only one on breakfast. [Chuckle]. Everybody else came in half-hour later. Every time ‘Missed it again.’ I said : ‘No we did not miss it.’ Berh, that was another bleeding officer and then, and I gather from one of our other, one of the crew I saw in Cairo. He said ‘You know what has happened up at up at - up at Foggia?’ I said ‘No.’ ‘ See they sent out those big aircraft, up our valley at a thousand feet.’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘Three crashed into that hill you told them about.’ I said ‘That’s bloody murder.’ And if I had my way I’d have had him but they took no notice of me, but it was them that - I mean the big aircraft, American aircraft has about twelve people on board. The Wellington only had five. You think it. Three aircraft. Thirty-six. Dead. Before they’d even started.
MJ: ‘Cause they took the wrong route.
WB: Yeah. I wish I could have done but you supposed to be a – on their side. [Laughter]. Yeah. And one or two people told me about it and I said that ‘I said I quite agree with ya. But we daren’t do it.’
MJ: Yeah.
WB: Whether they learned after that when they hit this hill there’s one way to find out. Not the [unclear] of the bleeding crew though.
MJ: Was there any more situations like that you had before? Was it a lot like that?
WB: Yeah well. This is how it is.
MJ: Yeah.
WB: Another time she came down to – oh blimey – begins will L.
MJ: Well –
WB: Yeah.
MJ: Yeah. Well anyway yeah.
WB: Yeah. Anyway, she came down there. I was [unclear] been on there a fortnight and she said ‘That comes off.’
MJ: So you had to lose your –
WB: So my mate said ‘Are you gonna?’ ‘No,’ I said ‘I’ve got home. I’ve worked it out. I want us to have three weeks to see what it’s like.’ Anyway, I didn’t get any in the end. Wasn’t for her, it was for myself. It itched though underneath. [Shudder].
MJ: Yeah I know.
WB: So I –
MJ: Yeah. Don’t go good with a uniform. So I put that on. Ok I’m gonna take a photo. You in 40 Squadron.
WB: That’s 40 Squadron in 3 Group with Wellingtons in 1940 or ‘41. Towards the end of ’41, 40 Squadron moved toward Malta. Moved to Egypt early in ’42 into 205 Group. Moving to North Africa and eventually to Italy. During – I joined 40 Squadron in Foggia Italy in August ’44. First flight 30th of August ’44 and first op 1st of September ’44. And last one 39, 21st of January 1945. Book says last, last 13th of March. Hmm, it’s wrong. Otherwise how was I doing it in ’45?
MJ: There’s there’s –
WB: It was a remake Manchester. Found that the Manchester were two Merlins was like the blooming Wellington Mark II was Merlins. They’re useless, so they took it back, extended the wing, put in two more engines and extended other things, call it the Lancaster, and it was a success. Makes you wonder doesn’t it?
MJ: It does yeah.
WB: I’m lying. I don’t think it’s been made public much ‘cause the Manchester was a dud.
MJ: Yeah.
WB: Hmm.
MJ: This is Michael Jeffery on behalf of the International Bomber Command Historical Project Unit. Thank you to William Briley for his recording.
WB: It won’t. Make it George, George Briley.
MJ: George Briley, it is.
WB: George, it’s what I’m known as. You’ll find on here that no one knows about a Duckworth[?]. It’s George everybody.
MJ: Well that’s good.
WB: Yeah.
MJ: Well, it’s very nice to meet you George. Thank you very much for you co-operation and your photographs and such like and I hope to meet you again. On behalf of the International Bomber Command, thank you again. On the 22nd of May 2015.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with William George Briley
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mick Jeffery
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-22
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:28:49 Audio recording
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABrileyW150522
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-10
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Gemma Clapton
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
After training in South Africa, William Briley flew operations as a navigator with 40 Squadron flying Wellingtons from Foggia, Italy. One of his operations involved the dropping of a 4000lb bomb which derailed two trains. He was also involved in mine laying in the Danube.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Egypt
Greece
Italy
Italy
Danube River
South Africa
Greece--Zakynthos
Italy--Foggia
Greece--Corinth Canal
Danube River
40 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
mine laying
navigator
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/782/9303/MTroglioP[DoB]-180902-01.pdf
e0ce188bd4494347da149bef8bd559d0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Troglio, Paolo and Bernabè, Angelo
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Troglio, P-Bernabe, A
Description
An account of the resource
<p>40 items. The collection consists of the service and private papers of Paolo Troglio (b. 1921), an aviere of Regia Aeronautica later attached to the Luftwaffe. Paolo was stationed in Italy, France, Greece, Albania, and on the Russian Front where he became a prisoner of war. He escaped and was posted to a Luftwaffe logistic unit with the rank of Gefreiter. Toward the end of the war, back in Italy, Paolo became an informant for the Resistance, to which he passed military intelligence. The collection comprehends photographs of barracks, aircraft, airfields, ordnance, and his friends in informal settings. There is also correspondence exchanged between Paolo and his family, letters from the 'Italia' partisan brigade, and a pair of Deutsche Afrika Korps googles. The collection also include correspondence about a war damage claim lodged by Angelo Bernabè, whose daughter would later be married to Paolo. </p>
<p>The collection was donated by Sara Troglio and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff, with the valuable assistance of the Archeologi dell'Aria research group (<a href="https://www.archeologidellaria.org">https://www.archeologidellaria.org</a>) and further identification provided by Claudio Gioia.</p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-09-02
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MTroglioP[DoB]-180902-01
Title
A name given to the resource
Paolo Troglio's service history
Description
An account of the resource
Aviere Paolo Troglio joined the Regia Areonautica in 1941. He was posted in Italy, Greece, Albania, Russia where he became a prisoner of war. After his escape he was attached to a Luftwaffe logistic unit and later came back to Milan: he remained there until he was demobilised at the end of the war.
Language
A language of the resource
ita
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Italy
Russia (Federation)
Albania
Greece
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Service material
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Wehrmacht. Luftwaffe
prisoner of war
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/782/9314/PTroglioP18040002.1.jpg
608071c33b3dfce9881290d22eb758ca
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/782/9314/PTroglioP18040003.1.jpg
1d67e79e32d0f782663713bc48b42270
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Troglio, Paolo and Bernabè, Angelo
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Troglio, P-Bernabe, A
Description
An account of the resource
<p>40 items. The collection consists of the service and private papers of Paolo Troglio (b. 1921), an aviere of Regia Aeronautica later attached to the Luftwaffe. Paolo was stationed in Italy, France, Greece, Albania, and on the Russian Front where he became a prisoner of war. He escaped and was posted to a Luftwaffe logistic unit with the rank of Gefreiter. Toward the end of the war, back in Italy, Paolo became an informant for the Resistance, to which he passed military intelligence. The collection comprehends photographs of barracks, aircraft, airfields, ordnance, and his friends in informal settings. There is also correspondence exchanged between Paolo and his family, letters from the 'Italia' partisan brigade, and a pair of Deutsche Afrika Korps googles. The collection also include correspondence about a war damage claim lodged by Angelo Bernabè, whose daughter would later be married to Paolo. </p>
<p>The collection was donated by Sara Troglio and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff, with the valuable assistance of the Archeologi dell'Aria research group (<a href="https://www.archeologidellaria.org">https://www.archeologidellaria.org</a>) and further identification provided by Claudio Gioia.</p>
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-09-02
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PTroglioP18040002, PTroglioP18040003
Title
A name given to the resource
Man on a river bank
Description
An account of the resource
A man in uniform with arms folded is standing on a river bank. Two lorries can be seen in the background, on a dry river bed. Hills and trees in the distance. On the reverse: 'ricordo del vostro parente Angelo in terra Greca'
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photographs
Language
A language of the resource
ita
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Troglio, P-Bernabe, A. Folder PTroglioP1804
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/477/10243/LBrileyWG1586825v1.1.pdf
1fafc8f88de868c2a3d32e67ebd8d4b0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Briley, William George
George Briley
W G Briley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Briley, WG
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer William George Briley (1586825, Royal Air Force), his log book, service material and a sight log book containing <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/987">18 target photographs</a>. After training in South Africa, George Briley completed 39 bombing and supply dropping operations as a navigator with 40 Squadron flying Wellingtons from Foggia in Italy. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by William George Briley and catalogued by Barry Hunter, <span>with additional identification provided by the Archeologi dell'Aria research group (</span><a href="https://www.archeologidellaria.org/">https://www.archeologidellaria.org</a><span>)</span>
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-09
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
William George Briley's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observers and air gunners flying log book for Wiliam George Briley, covering the period from 2 December 1943 to 24 November 1945. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and communication flight duties. He was stationed at, East London, RAF Qastina, RAF Foggia and Athens. Aircraft flown in were, DH82 Tiger Moth, Anson, Empire flying boat, Wellington, Defiant, C-47, Fairchild Argus III and Liberator. He flew a total of 39 operations, 26 night and 13 daylight operations, consisting of 28 bombing operations and 11 supply drops. Targets were, Ferrara, Bologna, Milan, Athens, Brescia, Szekesfehervar, Solonica, Borovnica, Danube, Verona, Bronzolo, Tuzla, Sinj, Vragolovi, Predgrao, Zakomo, Podgorica, Novi Pasar, Chiapovano, Szombathely, Bugojno, Matesevo, Casarsa, Susegana, Salcano, Doboj, Circhina and Udine. His pilot on operations was Sergeant Hanson.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LBrileyWG1586825v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Greece
Hungary
Italy
Montenegro
Middle East--Palestine
Serbia
Slovenia
South Africa
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Bugojno (Opština)
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Doboj
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Tuzla
Croatia--Sinj
Danube River
Gaza Strip--Gaza
Greece--Athens
Hungary--Székesfehérvár
Hungary--Szombathely
Italy--Bologna
Italy--Brescia
Italy--Bronzolo
Italy--Casarsa della Delizia
Italy--Ferrara
Italy--Foggia
Italy--Milan
Italy--Susegana
Italy--Udine
Italy--Verona
Middle East--Palestine
Montenegro--Kolašin
Montenegro--Podgorica
Serbia--Novi Pazar
Slovenia--Borovnica
Slovenia--Cerkno
Slovenia--Solkan
South Africa--East London
Greece--Thessalonikē
Gaza Strip
Danube River
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
1944-09-02
1944-09-06
1944-09-10
1944-09-12
1944-09-13
1944-09-14
1944-09-17
1944-09-19
1944-09-21
1944-09-26
1944-10-04
1944-10-05
1944-10-09
1944-10-10
1944-10-11
1944-10-12
1944-11-01
1944-11-04
1944-11-05
1944-11-06
1944-11-08
1944-11-10
1944-11-16
1944-11-17
1944-11-18
1944-11-19
1944-11-22
1944-11-25
1944-11-26
1944-12-11
1944-12-13
1944-12-14
1944-12-15
1944-12-16
1944-12-19
1944-12-26
1944-12-27
1945-01-03
1945-01-05
1945-01-15
1945-01-20
1945-01-21
40 Squadron
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
B-24
C-47
Defiant
mine laying
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Resistance
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/987/10247/PBrileyWG15010003.2.jpg
52a8b59633b351c27b530b4cfcd9cac8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Briley, William George. Sight log book
Description
An account of the resource
18 target photographs taken by Sergeant Hanson's 40 Squadron aircraft over bombing and supply drop targets in Italy, Greece, Serbia, Slovenia and Hungary in 1944 and 1945.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Briley, WG
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-09
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Tatoi aerodrome
Description
An account of the resource
Vertical aerial photograph of Tatoi aerodrome. No detail is visible. The image is dark with explosions in the bottom left corner and ant-aircraft tracer. Captioned 'A4 1945. FOG.13/14 Sept 44//NT. F8. 9100' [arrow] 160°. 0013. Tatoi A/D. 6x500lbs, 2x250 lbs Mk. III. 28 1/2. Sgt Hanson. X.40. Sgt Boughen. B'A'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-09-14
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBrileyWG15010003
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Greece--Dekeleia
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-09-13
1944-09-14
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
40 Squadron
aerial photograph
bombing
target photograph
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10346/EChadwickRChadwickM330805-0001.1.jpg
89d9e1cfe1fc12e792e28d81d9849512
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10346/EChadwickRChadwickM330805-0002.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10346/EChadwickRChadwickM330805-0003.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10346/EChadwickRChadwickM330805-0004.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10346/EChadwickRChadwickM330805-0005.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10346/EChadwickRChadwickM330805-0006.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/518/10346/EChadwickRChadwickM330805-0007.1.jpg
5d532d183edfca81bae70a56bf5f5b47
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lapham, Rosemary
R Lapham
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lapham, R
Description
An account of the resource
100 items. An oral history interview with Rosemary Lapham, the daughter of Roy Chadwick, family correspondence, congratulations on being honoured, personal documentation as well as photographs of family, acquaintances and aircraft. The collection also contains a thank you letter from Barnes Wallis to Roy Chadwick and a note from Arthur Harris to Robert Saundby about the in-feasibility of the Eder Möhne and Sorpe operation, some conceptual aircraft drawings and other mementos.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lapham and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
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Transcribed document
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HÔTEL
DE LA GRANDE – BRETAGNE
ATHÈNES
[underlined] Sat. evening. 5th Aug 33 [/underlined]
[underlined] My darling Mary. [/underlined]
I am enjoying my stay in Greece more than I did in Turkey but I find Sweetheart that there is not so much pleasure about seeing new places & visiting ancient ruins when you are not there to enjoy it with me
Since I finished the real object of my journey in Turkey I’v [sic] felt that if only you were with me [deleted] indecipherable word [/deleted] we could have a really jolly sightseeing holiday but alone all the kick is taken out of it.
However this is a most valuable experience for me & I appreciate it a lot & only hope dearest that you & the children are quite all right & cheery.
When I arrived in Greece (at Pireus [Pireas] which is the port to Athens)
[page break]
[underlined] 3 [/underlined]
Take a siesta which I did after having a shower bath in my posh bath room (I made full use of the shower as I get so hot & clammy during the heat of the day).
After having afternoon tea I went to the British club & met Mr Hillier the British Commercial secretary to the Embassy to whom I had a letter of introduction from Vaughan-Scott who is an old colleague of his.
We had an interesting talk & a drink then I strolled back to the hotel for dinner which I found they take very late here.
In the hotel I met a British Cavalry officer Capt Greenslade who was on leave from Cairo he was a very nice chap & we had dinner & then went to a Cabaret.
This Cabaret was the best I’v
[page break]
[underlined] 2 [/underlined]
I got thro’ the customs & took a taxie [sic] to this hotel which had been recommended to me by Vaughan-Scott.
Its a beautiful hotel & I’v got a topping bed-room & beautiful bath room.
I rang up Triandaffilidis & found that he had gone to meet me & the silly people on the boat said that I was’nt on board, I suppose that they got mixed up in the pronunciation of my name which the latins find difficult, Triandaffilidis is a Greek & the people on the boat we [sic] Italian, however it did’nt matter.
Triandaffilidis came round to the hotel with his car and after we had talked a bit he took me to the Government aircraft factory which is run under contract by the Blackburn Co., this took until lunch time & the heat was terrific then.
I had lunch & decided to follow the custom of the country &
[page break]
[underlined] 4 [/underlined]
seen the dancing & costumes were excellent & we both enjoyed it.
There were some Spanish dancers which reminded me of our visit to Sevile [Seville] sweetheart.
After the Cabaret Greenslade & I got a taxie back to the hotel had an iced lemonade each & went to bed.
Today (Sat) I went to visit the famous Acropolis & it must have been a wonderful place in the ancient times.
I got a most interesting old guide & spent the whole morning there whilst he talked in a very slow voice & told me all about it.
Whilst there a fellow took a couple of snaps of me when I was’nt looking (you know the chaps who take a photo & print it on the spot) they are not much good but are rather amusing as they show me listening very [indecipherable] to the old guide.
[page break]
[underlined] 5 [/underlined]
HÔTEL
DE LA GRANDE – BRETAGNE
ATHÈNES
After visiting the Acropolis I returned to the hotel & rung up Triandaffilidis to see if he would come to lunch with me but he could’nt do so as he had an American Mr Ford of the Irvin parachute company with him& they were busy at the Air Ministry trying to sell Chutes.
After lunch I went round to Triandaffilidis’ office & met Mr Ford and told Triandaffilidis that I was thinking of pushing off, he said that his wife & himself were starting off on a holiday themselves on Monday morning & would I travel with them as far as Rome.
He said the train journey thro’ Greece is terrible at this time of the year so that I really ought to go by boat to Brindisi with them & then travel up thro’ Italy via Rome.
[page break]
[underlined] 6 [/underlined]
As it does’nt cost any more & is of course extremely interesting, I’v decided to go with them dear.
I hope that you will not mind the few extra days that I shall be away sweetheart although I’m trying to be back with you and the children.
Still this is a wonderful opportunity to see some of the world is’nt it? & I feel that I should do so whilst I can, [indecipherable].
Fixing up details, tickets etc: took some time then Trianda: kindly placed a car & driver at my disposal to take me to the bathing beach about ten miles away.
I had a nice bathe & returned in time for dinner after calling to collect my boat & train tickets.
[page break]
[underlined] 7 [/underlined]
Well dearest that about accounts for my time up to the moment
I dont think I’ll go anywhere tonight as Greenslade sailed for Cairo this afternoon.
Tomorrow being Sunday I think I’ll go & spend the day at the sea-side I’m told that its the thing to do here during the hot weather & believe me it is hot.
I expect dearest that you are all back home again now & I hope that you are all feeling better for your holiday.
I’m very fit but a bit sore in my back & elbow as I slipped on the marble staircase & came a wallop on my back [deleted] ye [/deleted] today I have’nt done any damage so dont worry dear
[page break]
[underlined] P.S [/underlined] I enclose a little map which I have marked [inserted][underlined] 6 [/underlined][/inserted] with X to show my route.
My pen has run out of ink dear so I’ll have to finish with pencil, I’v been trying to [deleted] indecipherable word [/deleted] calculate when I shall get home.
I think we arrive Brindisi Tuesday & Rome Wed morning and if I spend Wed: & Thursday in Rome I should be home on Sunday next darling.
It will have been a long time since I left you Mary dear but you are constantly in my thoughts dearest.
Please give my love and kisses to Margaret and Rosemary & tell them that I am on my way back to them & want to see them both very much.
love to aunt Nellie if she is still with you.
My fondest & dearest love to you Mary yours ever Roy.
[page break]
HÔTEL
DE LA GRANDE – BRETAGNE
ATHÈNES
[part postmark]
Mrs Chadwick.
“Kingsley”
Gilbert Road.
Hale. Cheshire.
England.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Letter from Roy Chadwick to Mary Chadwick
Description
An account of the resource
Writes that he is enjoying Greece more that Turkey and that as finished most of his business in Turkey, he wished that she could be with him for sightseeing. Writes of his arrival in Athens and meeting British official and a cavalry officer on leave from Cairo. Continues with account of meeting Greek officials and visit to government aircraft factory as well as entertainment and sightseeing.
Date
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1933-08-05
Format
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Eight page handwritten letter and envelope
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
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EChadwickRChadwickM330805
Coverage
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Civilian
Spatial Coverage
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Greece
Greece--Athens
Temporal Coverage
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1933-08-05
Contributor
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Steve Baldwin
Anita Raine
David Bloomfield
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
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Roy Chadwick
Chadwick, Roy (1893-1947)
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/744/10744/ACoburnA180509.2.mp3
2768b1e1dc698f684520ee031bc9d93a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Coburn, Alan
A Coburn
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Alan Coburn (1916 - 2018.)
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-05-09
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Coburn, A
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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TO: So, what year were you born?
AC: 1916.
TO: And —
AC: I’ll be a hundred and two next month.
TO: And where did you grow up?
AC: In London. I was, I was born in London, and I stayed there until the war.
TO: And was your father in the First World War?
AC: Yes. He was killed when I was one. My brother wasn’t even born. In Flanders. Passchendaele.
TO: And —
AC: He was second lieutenant, Kings Royal Rifle Corps.
TO: And when did you learn what had happened to him?
AC: When did I?
TO: When did you find out what had happened to him?
AC: I never found out until, well, I never really found out. He was shot in a place called Harelbeke, near Ypres. It was all part of the Ypres battle. He was obviously shot. More to it, I think two of his men were with him and managed to, after the war they came and saw the family. My mother and me and my brother.
TO: And did you have other, know other children who’d lost their fathers?
AC: No.
TO: And did your, do you remember when your mother first told you about him?
AC: No. I don’t because she never really mentioned it. I was too young to understand. I just accepted that we went to live with my grandmother after he was killed.
TO: And what impact would you say this had on you?
AC: Well, my grandmother was an Orthodox Jew and my mother wasn’t but we were brought up in an Orthodox Jewish family and that had an impact except that I went to school. I went to a prep school in London and then Rugby and I went to, I didn’t live a Jewish life at all except in the holidays. And then I didn’t really appreciate what was happening because I didn’t know any Hebrew. I just conformed to school. I went to chapel every day at Rugby. Twice a day on Sunday, I think.
TO: Was your father Jewish?
AC: No. Well, yes. But it was what was called Liberal Jewish as opposed to Orthodox. He didn’t really, he didn’t have any influence because as I say I was one when he was killed. My mother was also Liberal Jewish. They were married in a Liberal Jewish Synagogue. She died when I was sixteen. Cancer. They didn’t know as much then in 1932 as I, as the people know now.
TO: Did any of your friends have parents who they’d lost in the war?
AC: I don’t remember. I don’t think so. Not close friends.
TO: And how did your siblings manage?
AC: How did my —
TO: Your brother manage?
AC: My brother. He was alright. He, he was much cleverer than I was. He got a scholarship to Rugby. Got a double first at Oxford. I managed to get a degree but not, it was third class honours in history.
TO: Were you interested in aircraft as a child?
AC: Sorry?
TO: Were you interested in aircraft?
AC: No. Not really. I mean only in so far as I wanted to be a pilot. When the war broke out I volunteered for the RAF. They turned me down as a pilot but eventually they said you could be an observer. A navigator, and I started off on that line but I never completed the course because I got sick in aeroplanes. And eventually I was transferred to the RAF Regiment [pause] and on to OCTU, Officer Cadet Training Unit. First of all pre-OCTU, and then OCTU in the Isle of Man and I passed out and was commissioned in I think it was about May or June ’42. And I volunteered to go overseas, and I was sent to the Middle East. We went on the troop ship. One of the Union Castle Line and around to Durban. And then transferred after about three weeks in a transit camp, and then went up to Suez and another ship. Are you alright so far?
TO: Yes. Perfect, thank you.
AC: And in the, in Cairo the headquarters posted us to different units and I was posted to what had been a fighter squadron in the Alamein battle which was now in the Reserve and I spent some time in, a little time in Egypt. Not long. And then went out to Iraq, Habbaniya, which was the main British base. And that was out of the war really. I mean there was no war in which they were concerned. I think it was, it was the main base in the Middle East apart from Cairo. Anyway, I was there for a while and then was posted to Arabia. The [highlight of] the war was that I was RAF Regiment officer for Arabia because there were two or three bases. One of them was Sharjah which was still in operation, I think. And then the others, there was one, a little camp called Ras Al Hadd on the Arabian Peninsula. And then the third one was Masirah Island just off the coast of Arabia, which was a staging post for the Americans on the way to reinforce Burma. This was 1942. I had three or four months in Masirah. Very very hot and humid. You couldn’t get cool unless you poured water over yourself, and even then it only lasted about a quarter of an hour. The water was so salt that you couldn’t really get relief. It lasted a short time. We saw American films because they showed them on, there was a wall. They put a white [pause] I don’t know what you’d call it. Anyway, they showed this on this. The film. I remember only one. “Stage Door Canteen,” which had an awful lot of American film stars in. And then I was posted back to Palestine and to a squadron called 2908, and I spent the rest of the war with that squadron, and we were in Syria, Aleppo for some considerable time. And then we were supposed to go to Kos as part of the occupying force but luckily for me we never got there because we were too late at getting to the port. Haifa. The Navy wouldn’t wait, and I was very lucky though because all the people that did go were captured by the Germans and spent the rest of the war in prison camp. Anyway, after that we stayed in, in Palestine and Syria until 1944. Then we were eventually transported to Italy. I’m not sure if it was Bari or Brindisi. Anyway, we were taken there and then became part of the first people to re-enter Greece. We landed at a place called Katakolon which was only a village. We were greeted with flowers and kisses. It was near the first airfield, we were there, the RAF Regiment squadron was there to take. Luckily the Germans were gone and we had no resistance. So, we went. We captured this airfield. Patras and the Corinth Canal, and the proudest moment of my life I think was in Patras. I was on the balcony and it was surrounded by balconies. Everyone cheering and waving. I was a symbol of liberation. And as I say it was the proudest moment of my life.
Other: I bet it was.
AC: Because it was real liberation. Instead of having, you know the knock at the door in the middle of the night which was the Gestapo they were all, they knew that they were safe. It lasted. I actually had jaundice, and then later on tonsilitis in Greece. Jaundice I was moved luckily because all they would give me to eat was [pause] I can’t remember what it was. Anyway, it had put me off. Bully or something.
[pause]
TO: In the 1930s —
AC: Yes.
TO: Had you heard about what was happening in, to the Jews in Germany?
AC: Oh yes. Well, we had when I was living in Hampstead we had two Jewish ladies, refugees for a time in the late ’30s. I can’t remember what happened to them but they certainly came and lived with us from Germany. And so I knew something but of course I was, I was at Oxford then and I didn’t know much about it.
TO: And what was your first job?
AC: Well, my grandfather had been a director or a partner in an insurance company. Insurance broking firm called Halford Henry Montefiore and I, they had promised because my father had been killed, they promised to keep a place for me and so I went in there and started as a filing clerk in 1937. And I was there ‘til the war learning the business of insurance broking but I had decided, they took me to Lloyds, and I told [unclear] to sell to the underwriters. The clients, depending what they were. And there was Egyptian cotton, that sort of thing being taken from Egypt to Britain or wherever and my job was to go to Lloyds and get the underwriters to agree insurance. Unfortunately, I wasn’t very good at it. At least I didn’t think I was and I was quite happy to volunteer for the RAF as opposed to the Army because my memory of the Army was at school. The OTC, the Officer Training Corps, you had puttees to put on. I never got them right. I didn’t really want to go in to the Army. Anyway, I volunteered for the RAF and originally, I wanted to be a pilot but they turned me down for that and then they altered the criteria which was for entering aircrew. They said I could be an observer navigator and so I started on that and I did the first part. Actually, they sent me first of all to Yatesbury. I had six months there training as a wireless op, and that was Morse all the time. I had, you had to pass certain tests. You had, I think it was eighteen words a minute to pass out. And then you had to take interference. So if there was interference I think it was thirteen words a minute. You had to be able to distinguish one from the other. Anyway, I passed out eventually. It was a six month course. I was posted to the north of Scotland where just north of Aberdeen was a lighthouse. Torry. T O R R Y. You spent the first week at the lighthouse, and then the powers that be decided it wasn’t a good idea and we were billeted in Aberdeen. We were acting as liaison between the control room and the pilots on duty in the north of Scotland and if there was a raid, we were the people who put, put the plug in more or less and, but of course all the speech that went on between the pilots and the air control. I did that for two or three months including some night shifts. Then I was eventually called up to go on the first part of my aircrew course which was in Devonshire. Torquay. And I —
[recording paused]
I went. I took the car. I still had my car. I took it to London. I drove to London in a day which was not bad going in those days. It’s five hundred plus miles. And anyway, I left the car in London for the rest of the war, and then went to Torquay. After I think it was three weeks or maybe more I was, we were moved to Gloucestershire to start off my actual aircrew training. But unfortunately, I didn’t like it. I got sick in the aeroplane and eventually asked if I could stop. I was interviewed and they agreed. So I spent the next few months, maybe even a year, I can’t remember, in London at Lords Cricket Ground where people were being mustered to different jobs. I was eventually sent for. I was given a commission in the RAF Regiment which was newly formed then, and I was sent to a place in Northumberland I think it was for a pre-OCTU, and then to the Isle of Man for the OCTU, Officer Cadet Training Unit and did a three month course there in the Isle of Man. And then was posted back to the Isle of Man funnily enough, and I volunteered. I wasn’t there for very long. I volunteered for overseas, and I was sent actually to [unclear] for the transit camp before embarkation and eventually embarked on a, I think it was the Union Castle Line boat, ship. And we went around the Cape and we were very lucky that it was in convoy. It could easily have been detected by the U-boats but it wasn’t. Anyway, we went to Durban. I had three weeks there in transit camp and then transferred to some other boats going up to Suez. Which we did. And in Suez, I was eventually posted to a squadron which had been in the Alamein battle and was now in rest. And then eventually I was sent to Habbaniya in Iraq which was the big base for RAF in that part of the war and mind you there was no fighting there. Eventually I was posted to Arabia, [unclear] of the war I was RAF officer for Arabia. The RAF Regiment was newly formed and I had three Flights they were called relative to platoons. I was the only officer. I used to, from Sharjah to a point on the Arabian Peninsula called Ras Al Hadd. I spent, and there was a flight at each and then and then there was another one at Masirah Island. And the Masirah Island was a staging post for the Americans and they were taking troops through, and supplies to Burma to strengthen the resistance to the Japanese. Masirah was very hot and humid, and we were lucky because we were able to see American films. I remember one, “Stage Door Canteen,” which had a lot of film stars in it. I wasn’t, as I say I was in Masirah for about three months and then was posted back to Palestine and Syria. Joined a company called 2908 Squadron. As I say that was about 1943 and I was there. We went Syria, Aleppo and Palestine and we were supposed to go to Kos. The Greek islands. But luckily for me we was not very efficient. We arrived after the Navy had gone, so I never got to Kos. Which was just as well because those who did were all captured by the Germans. I was very lucky.
Other: You had a lucky escape there didn’t you, Alan?
AC: Yeah. Anyway, after several months or even more in Syria and Palestine we were brought by sea to Italy to be the, we didn’t know what it turned out to be the first [unclear] back in Europe, in Greece and were greeted with flowers and kisses and as I say the proudest moments in my life was on the balcony waving to everybody. I was the symbol of the liberation and I knew it. Well, I couldn’t do anything more. I just stood there and everybody cheering and clapping and waving and I waved back. I got myself, I had jaundice because of the food. Really there was nothing but dry bread and [pause] I was in sort of a camp for ill people. Then they transferred me luckily to Athens. There was better food there. Better conditions all around. Later on, I was in the north of Greece, Macedon, Macedonia and I got jaundice. No. Sorry, I had jaundice in Patras. I caught tonsilitis in the north of Greece and was in the hospital again. It wasn’t that bad. I can’t remember much about it really.
Other: Just that it was bad.
AC: Well, it wasn’t. I was lucky. And after that I went to re-join my squadron and we spent the best part of a year in Greece. Near Athens. Then the Civil War was on and we took part. There was a nice story about Churchill who came out on Christmas Eve. This was December ’44 and he was driven in one of our armoured cars from our aerodrome to the centre of Athens where he was going to negotiate with what was then the Greek government. And his story about, he was accompanied by Anthony Eden and Churchill said to Anthony Eden, and the man he was going to negotiate with was an archbishop of some sort representing the Greek government as it was then, and the Greek Civil War was on at the time. Anyway, Churchill drove in one of our armoured cars to Athens and said to Anthony Eden about the man he was going to meet, ‘Is he a scheming medieval prelate?’ To which Eden said, ‘Well, yes Winston. I’m afraid he is.’ Good,’ said Winston, ‘I’ll be able to deal with him.’ And he did. And we were there, as I said, I was at least a year posted in a camp nearby the sea far from the civil war. There was no fighting. But my boss who was the finest man I ever met he negotiated with, between the two. Greek rebels and the, the communist ELAS, and the [unclear] Greeks and eventually, we didn’t, we didn’t take any part really, apart from as I said carrying Churchill into Athens. But we stayed there by the sea. I can’t remember why I went to Northern Greece but I did. That’s where I got tonsilitis and I was in hospital again. But it didn’t last that long. I went back to my unit and stayed there until we left Greece.
Other: Yeah.
AC: Which was about after the German war finished. We went to Austria as part of the occupying force. We had, I had weeks leave in Rome and [unclear] I think it might have been “Le Boheme.” Anyway, I went, and then went off to Austria. A place called Linz. A quite a big town, and I was there three or four months. I finished with a fortnight learning to ski which was very good for me. I was lucky. I just about learned how to stop, which was rather necessary. Anyway, I came home in March or the beginning of March ’46. I was demobbed almost immediately. I had three months leave to come home after I was, I had one night in a camp and then three months leave. And then another night in the camp and then issued with belt, trousers. You know. New clothes. And I spent Christmas in London because I was still living in London. So that was the end of my RAF service. Six years.
Other: You got about a bit.
AC: I did. I crossed the world. I was very lucky. My brother was a conscientious objector, and drove an ambulance from El Alamein right through North Africa and in the south of France. And he was good at languages as well so he acted as interpreter with the French and Germans. And he must have seen lots of dead people but I was very lucky. I never saw a dead person. I saw one man who had been wounded being carried through. That was as far as I met anyone.
Other: I think Thomas might have some questions for you.
AC: Ok.
TO: What was your rank in the RAF Regiment?
AC: Flying officer. I started as pilot officer but you automatically unless you did something scandalous became flying officer. I became adjutant of 2908 Squadron which was the right place for me because I couldn’t do the, I went on an admin course in Oman, Jordan to learn what I was supposed to do when I went back to the squadron. I did that for a couple of years I suppose. Anyway, from ‘44 to ‘45.
TO: What were your everyday duties as an adjutant?
AC: Oh dear. I don’t really remember. Administrative work with, people had to be, every year had to be named or at least given a rank. I used to give them [unclear] authorise it. What’s the word? Anyway, that’s me. Posted. The discipline was either good or bad depending on, had to be very bad to be called bad. In fact, I had to correct some of my predecessor’s work because he’d put bad on something and he hadn’t really been bad. At least not in RAF terms. Anyway, that was one part of my work. And putting up the commanding officer’s orders and generally see people got sent home or not. Things like that because the war was over.
TO: What rations did you have in the Middle East?
AC: Rations? Well, I think it was corned beef and it wasn’t very, what shall I say? They weren’t very good rations but they were better than people were getting otherwise. So, also I had jaundice. Of course, they wouldn’t give me anything except bread and I think a few corned beef. Eventually, when I was moved to Athens it was quite different. In hospital there you got chicken and things like that but [unclear] I can’t remember much.
TO: Do you remember what medicine you were given to avoid disease?
AC: Sorry?
TO: Do you remember what medicine you were given to avoid disease?
AC: No. Not really.
TO: And when you were in Britain were you ever involved in any raid raids?
AC: I was on leave in 1940 when the Germans were bombing London. I was there for a week I think and so I remember being there when there were raids going on. I was lucky it didn’t hit me because I could hear bombs dropping not too far away but I don’t really remember anything else. I wasn’t a hero.
TO: What did you think of Churchill?
AC: I thought he was great. Really when he took over I just accepted that he was the man who would bring us through. I was abroad most of the time of course from ’42 to ’46. Three and a half years and Churchill was a long way away but I had faith in him in so far as I favoured anyone. I was just doing a job.
TO: And what do you think of Chamberlain?
AC: Well, not an awful lot. I didn’t really have much [pause] Chamberlain resigned on May the 10th, 1940 and he died I think about six months later. So I, what I knew about Chamberlain was I didn’t that think he was very warlike.
TO: And what did you think of the Munich Agreement?
AC: Well, I was one of those who thought it meant peace and so I welcomed it but of course I was quite wrong. It was just the opposite. At the time I rejoiced but not afterwards.
TO: And do you remember the day the war started?
AC: Vaguely. I was still in London. I remember there was an air raid warning I think and nobody knew what was happening really. That’s about all I remember. This was in London but it was a false alarm I think anyway.
TO: And did you remember hearing when America joined the war?
AC: Did I remember what?
TO: Can you remember when America joined the war?
AC: Oh yes. Well, I do but I was, this was America joined in July, sorry December ’41 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour and I was, in July ’41, sorry, in December ’41 I think I was still in England. I don’t remember I obviously welcomed it but I don’t remember much more about it.
TO: And do you remember when you joined the RAF?
AC: In May 1940. Six years including demob leave brought it to May 1946.
TO: And can you tell me a bit more about what you were doing in the lighthouse in Scotland?
AC: Well, cooking for ourselves for a week and then as I say we transferred to billets in Aberdeen. The lighthouse was alright but I think the lighthouse keeper, well allowed us to do more or less as we liked. Cooking for ourselves. I think the RAF eventually decided that that wasn’t a good idea. Anyway, I was only in the lighthouse a week, I think. Torry. T O R R Y.
TO: And what kind of entertainment did you have in the RAF?
AC: Entertainment?
Other: You had the films, didn’t you?
AC: I think we didn’t get any.
Other: Didn’t you have the films?
AC: Oh, the films.
Other: Yeah.
AC: No. That wasn’t in, I was in Masirah.
Other: Right.
TO: It was alright. We didn’t see any touring parties. I think it might have when I first went to the Middle East I was posted to Cairo and I think we went to a nightclub or something like that in Alexandria but that was about all.
TO: Did you ever listen to songs on the radio?
AC: No. Not really. I can’t remember. I don’t think so.
TO: Can you tell me about the conditions on the troop ships?
AC: Well, as I was an officer they were very good. I don’t know what, what the men thought. I was the only Jewish officer on the ship so, there were about a dozen Jews among the soldiers. I was the only RAF person there really. I gave a lecture on the RAF to the soldiers. I do remember that. Explaining the ranks and the different parts of the Air Force.
TO: Right.
AC: I think it went down all right. Anyway, passed an hour by the time I’d finished.
TO: And how was morale in the RAF?
AC: It was pretty good but being in the squadron I remember one man was, a pilot was killed and somebody rang me up from another part of the, where the squadron was and asked about it and I said he was dead which wasn’t the right thing to say. I should have just said, ‘I’m sorry. I’m afraid he’s bought it.’ Anyway, the morale otherwise it was very good. I think that was just accepted as part of the job. You would do it.
TO: And were you worried that the Germans would take over North Africa?
AC: No. I wasn’t anywhere near there really but I was in Palestine and Syria at that time. North Africa. My brother was. He went through Alemein to Tunis and then to the south of France. He was driving an ambulance and of course he saw a lot of dead and wounded men and I never saw one. Well, I saw one wounded man being carried past but that was near as I got. I was very lucky.
TO: And what were your living conditions like in the Middle East?
AC: Well, as best most of the time as I say here in Greece at a place called Vouliagmeni near Athens. By the sea. They were, of course very lucky but the war was over then. The first year or two, well I didn’t get out there until, until the end of ’42 so I had about two years which conditions weren’t very good. But they weren’t that bad at least apart from getting tonsilitis and jaundice.
TO: How did the, did you ever interact with the local population where you were stationed?
AC: No. I missed the opportunity I’m afraid. Specifically Syria. Aleppo. And Palestine I didn’t really get in touch with the local population at all. I should have done.
TO: What did you think of British commanders of the war?
AC: Command?
TO: Yes.
AC: I didn’t really think about it. I was just there doing what I was told to do. The squadron was one of the few field squadrons of the RAF Regiment that were anti-aircraft and field. I was lucky because the anti-aircraft people didn’t do anything except cover an anti-aircraft guns. But the field squadrons were there to invade or take airfields and camps. I was very lucky that I was with the squadron because the CO, whose name was John or Jock Wynne, W Y N N E was a marvellous man. And in fact, I owe, I got a mention in despatches entirely through him because I didn’t do anything special. He put names up and we received [unclear] but I didn’t deserve anything. Anyhow, I just did the job I was trying to do.
TO: And what aircraft were stationed nearby?
AC: Aircraft? Well, I wasn’t in that part of the war where the aircraft came in to it. It was the RAF regiment were infantry really and we weren’t involved with [pause] with aircraft.
TO: And what buildings did you tend to have where you were stationed?
AC: What building? Sorry?
TO: What kind of buildings did you have in the places where you were stationed?
AC: I’m trying to think [pause] You know, I’m afraid I can’t tell you.
TO: That’s fine.
AC: There were buildings but I can’t, I just don’t remember.
TO: And can you tell me a little bit more about your time in Italy?
AC: About my —?
TO: Time in Italy.
AC: Sorry?
TO: Your time in Rome in Italy.
AC: Oh, Rome in Italy.
TO: Yeah
AC: Well, we weren’t there very long. We were transferred by sea from Egypt to Bari or Brindisi, I can’t remember which and we were, I suppose we were there a few weeks but we went, we were due to go to Greece as soon as they were ready. And so I didn’t really see much of Italy and as I say I had a week’s leave in Rome where I heard [unclear] and one opera but apart from that I don’t remember anything about it.
TO: Do you remember much about Austria?
AC: About what?
TO: Austria.
AC: Oxford?
TO: Austria. Linz.
AC: Austria. Well, it was peaceful. There was no, we were an occupying force but we never did anything, had to do anything. Didn’t have to do anything because the Austrians were quite realistic and I think they just accepted us as occupying power.
TO: Did you ever get to talk to the civilians there?
AC: Did I ever get what?
TO: Did you ever get to talk to the Austrian civilians?
AC: Not really. A little bit but not very much. We were at, in a place, I think it was called Graz and it was quite a big town and as I say there was no fighting or there was very little [unclear] at all. It was just living day to day. And it wasn’t exciting. Eventually I was demobbed in 19, February 1946. I spent a couple of weeks learning to ski which was fine for me but I just about learned how to stop which was very necessary.
Other: You need to be able to stop don’t you? When you’re skiing?
AC: Well, after the war in Swanage on holiday with my wife and children. Some of the children I tried to water ski. At least I knew the positions.
TO: And what were you doing on the day the war ended?
AC: The German war I was in hospital. I think with tonsilitis. The Japanese war I was somewhere in Austria. I can’t remember anything else.
TO: And do you remember much more about your time in Greece?
AC: About my —
TO: Time in Greece.
AC: Sorry?
TO: What else do you remember about Greece?
AC: The Greeks.
Other: Yes.
AC: Well, there was, they were all very hospitable. We were lucky because the war was over and they were all ready to help. Do anything we wanted. One or two songs I remember but that’s I can’t sing them. Popular.
TO: So, did you talk with the Greek civilians much?
AC: No. Not really. I suppose I should have done but I can’t remember.
TO: That’s fine.
AC: It’s seventy years ago now.
TO: Were you surprised that a civil war broke out?
AC: Not altogether. I knew enough that the Greek communists were very strong in one part and my CO went and negotiated between the two different Greek [unclear] One communists, the other was a man called [unclear] who was right wing and they fought each other more than the Germans. The Greek communists eventually lost the war or at least they didn’t win.
TO: And when did you hear about the Holocaust?
AC: I didn’t know anything about it really until after the war. I mean, I knew things were terrible but I had no idea. I was lucky. I didn’t go to Belsen or Auschwitz or Dachau. I didn’t really know anything.
TO: Do you remember much about your time in Iraq?
AC: About my family?
TO: Your time in Iraq. In Syria.
AC: No. Not really. I should have done.
TO: Can you tell me a bit about your trip to France and Belgium last year?
AC: Oh, that’s easy because my father was killed in a place called Harelbeke near Ypres in 1917, the 31st of July and I determined that if I was ok I would go and salute his memory which I did. The family, my family and I have three children. Andrew, James and Louise. James was on holiday and couldn’t come but his son Marcello, my only grandson he came and so did the two granddaughters and my daughter and then my granddaughter’s children. They came and then we drove. I went down by the train to London with Louise. She came up and we went and met, went by train to Lisle and at Lisle we were met by Louise’s husband, Colin and her two girls, Joanne and Isabel. And we stayed the night in Lisle and then went over the next day to Belgium. There was no delay. Lisle is very close to the Belgium border anyway and so we went from the Lisle hotel to the Menin Gate where my father’s name is. And luckily his name was at the bottom of the column so I was able to [unclear] it though I couldn’t see and we stayed for a service. It was the day after I think the main service there. Anyway, there were quite a lot of people still there and we stayed for the service and I was able to think of his name because it was at the bottom of the list. The bottom of the wall where they were all named. One of my friends was, who’s dead now was a Belgian. He was an agent for the Belgium textile machinery Picanol and he took a photograph of the Menin Gate which showed that they’d got my father’s name right but the initial wrong. They’d put G instead of C. So, I wrote to the War Office. This is going back ten or more years and asked, sent them a copy of the photograph and asked if they could put it right and to give the War Office its due they said yes they could do that but it would take some time. And they did. They changed, just took off bits from the G so that it was C for Charles which was my father’s name.
TO: I hope you don’t mind me asking but was it very difficult growing up without your father?
AC: No. I had to. It wasn’t, because my mother was very good and never, I just accepted the situation because I was too young to understand what had happened. I was very lucky that I was born in an affluent family and they sent me to Rugby and Oxford and I had really as I say, I was very lucky.
TO: And did you ever feel any animosity towards Germany or Japan or Italy?
AC: No. I don’t think so. I mean, obviously when Jewish refugees came I felt sorry for them but I never felt hatred for Germany. I wasn’t really in contact.
TO: And have you ever been back to anywhere that you went during the war?
AC: Have I ever been?
TO: Even been back to anywhere you were stationed during the war?
AC: No. Not really. No. I mean no is the answer.
TO: Is there anything you want to add at all to finish off?
AC: I think I’ve told you as much as I can.
TO: Thank you very much. It was a pleasure to hear from you.
AC: You’re welcome. I’m sorry I can’t remember quite a lot.
TO: No. That’s fine.
Other: No. You do very well, Alan.
TO: You did brilliantly. Thank you.
Other: You did very well. It’s very interesting.
AC: I know the places but I don’t know much about them
Other: Yeah. But it’s still interesting.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Alan Coburn
Creator
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Tom Ozel
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2018-05-09
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ACoburnA180509
Conforms To
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Pending review
Format
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01:15:54 audio recording
Language
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eng
Description
An account of the resource
Alan Coburn’s father was killed in the First World War when he was one year old and his brother was not yet born. He attended a prep school in London and then Rugby before gaining a degree at Oxford University. The insurance brokerage associated with his family had agreed to keep a place open for him in memory of his father but Alan didn’t really enjoy the job. He volunteered for the RAF and was accepted for aircrew training. However, he was repeatedly airsick and transferred to the RAF Regiment. He was posted to the Middle East. From there he was posted to Greece and then post-war Austria.
Temporal Coverage
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1940
1942
1943
1944
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
Greece
Syria
Middle East
Middle East--Palestine
England--London
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Contributor
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Julie Williams
ground personnel
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/942/11301/AMacraeWM161116.1.mp3
84f04c8bc5c17a43471fbbf8d7624df3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Macrae, Bill
W M Macrae
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Bill Macrae (1913 - 2019, 3031774, Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a pilot with 104 Squadron in North Africa and Italy.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-11-16
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Macrae, WM
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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JH: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre in Lincolnshire, UK and it’s part of the Oral History Programme. I’m the interviewer. I’m John Horsburgh and today I’m interviewing Bill Macrae. Bill was a pilot and he served with 104 Squadron RAF and he was flying Wellington bombers. And he was part of the Desert Air Force. North Africa and Italy campaigns. So, it’s a very interesting story. The interview is at Bill’s home in Chatswood in New South Wales and today is the 16th of November 2016. So, good afternoon Bill. I’m very pleased to be interviewing you for this. Why don’t we start at the start? The, your date of birth and where you were born and we’ll take it from there.
BM: I was born on the 14th of January 1913 at a place called Coraki which is up the far north coast near Lismore. On a farm. And my earliest memory was of the end of the First World War when late one evening a man came galloping down the main road singing out, “The war is over. The war is over.” And I remember very well also when all the soldiers came back where they put on a big return party at the local showground. And I remember there one of them picked me up and threw me up in the air and I boasted about that ever since. That’s the first time I was ever airborne. After that I went to a local school. About ten pupils in it I think, and teaching was rather elementary I suppose but we got the basics. And from there we moved to another farm up at Kyogle which is about, a town about thirty miles further north. And I was there until we came to Sydney in about 1923 and I went to school in Sydney. And at that time in 1926 or ‘7 the Depression came along and that’s one of my main regrets in life that my father lost his money and he had to go back to the bush and start again. And I had to get a job which I was very fortunate. I had an old uncle who had been in the Bank of New South Wales and he got me a job there. And none of my friends had a job. And people don’t realise how dire the straits of everyone else was in the workforce. I think unemployment was about twenty, twenty five percent. And in those day there were very few women working. But I remember the, I started work in Sydney in March 1929 in a two storey building in George Street with a wooden wire cage lift with a bit of rope used as a thing to lower it up and down. And I worked there for about three or four or five years and in 1937 the bank decided to send me to London for three years. Which was one of the greatest breaks I’ve had in life. And the general manager of the bank was Sir Alfred Davidson and he had the idea I think that the, a lot of young fellows in the bank were hillbillies. It would be a good thing if they had a bit of overseas experience. So he sent quite a few of us over there which I think was a very expensive exercise and which rather got him out of favour with the directors. He was wasting money on us really because we went over there completely unsupervised and we sort of had a tourist time. Not having to do much hard work.
JH: Meanwhile Bill was there a sense that there was trouble? When you went over there there was trouble brewing in Germany?
BM: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. I realised that the, there would be a war and I decided at that stage to learn a bit of German. So I went along at night to learn German. And I got to the stage I could understood Hitler’s ravings. And I also went over to Germany on holidays in 1939 and lived with a German family in Munich. And I gathered there that the Germans were right behind Hitler because he gave them hope. As the lady of the house where I was boarding said, ‘Well, he gave us hope,’ and said, ‘Otherwise we were completely —’ the biggest mistake of the war was the Germans were treated very harshly in the Treaty of Versailles. And they were a very proud race and they had no future. And she said, ‘Hitler gave us a future,’ she said, ‘We didn’t agree with him. And we didn’t like Goering. We thought he was a joke. But he gave our kids Hitler Youth ideology.’ Which was very, very good. The young Germans really impressed me. I mean as a tourist they’d see, if you asked them anywhere they’d not only point it out to you but they’d go with you. And very, very well mannered. And the Hitler Youth I think were completely mislead and indoctrinated by Hitler which was very, very unfortunate. But I liked the young Germans and I loved their singing. I loved their music. And I loved their general method of morality which was very high. Which I’m afraid at that time in England you had the shocker yobbos and the young people there didn’t impress you as opposed to the young Germans. At any rate I backed the wrong horse. I got back to England and a bit later on of course war broke out in September ’39. And I was very sympathetic to the German cause and I very easily could have become indoctrinated by the German ideals I think. At any rate. I decided that war might be over by Christmas so I thought I’d better sort of do something about it. I went along to Australia House and I was very fortunate there to have met a military man. Captain Pollard. He later became quite a good, he later got a knighthood and he later became a general but at that stage he was just a captain in the army.
JH: An Australian.
BM: And he said to me —
JH: Australian army or British army?
BM: Australian army.
JH: Australian army. Yeah.
BM: He was attached temporarily on a course with the British army.
JH: Yes.
BM: At any rate he said there was no Australian army starting up in London, ‘You’ll have to go back to Australia.’ And he said, ‘But I can get you into the, New Zealand has started a little army. Either that or the British army.’ At any rate I said, ‘You’d better make it the British army,’ because New Zealanders didn’t like Australians very much in those days. And, I don’t know. I don’t think that persists but then I think they regarded us as the descendants of convicts [laughs] They thought they were a bit superior to Australians I think. So, I decided not to join the New Zealand Army. They started an anti-tank regiment there and I saw them in training later on. But I was very amazed then within a matter of two weeks I suddenly got a notice, call up notice to report to Woolwich. The headquarters of the artillery and to join an officer training course for the artillery which, back to when I’d left Australia as I said if I’d ever join the British army and become an officer was completely out of my mind. But at any rate I joined the British Army. Trained with them at Aldershot. South of London there. And graduated as a lieutenant, Royal Artillery in March 1940 and was posted back to Woolwich to go to France. And at that stage we sat at Woolwich for about a month and that was when the Germans attacked in France. And that’s when the Germans sort of over ran the British Army in France.
JH: So you could have ended up on the beach.
BM: Yeah. So I never —
JH: Yeah.
BM: I never got to France. Which was a bit fortunate. But I got posted to a British artillery regiment between Canterbury and Dover. And I was down there during the Battle of Britain and wonderful front line seats of the battles that raged overhead in the air. And that gave me a yearning to get into the air force I’m afraid. And a notice came around in the artillery regiment. They’d decided to start up a thing called a flying OP. Operational Post training for directing gunfire from the air. Then I put my name in and as a result of that I got posted to an air force station at Woodley.
JH: Woodley.
BM: Which was west of London. I remember —
JH: Was that an —
BM: On the day that I —
JH: Yeah.
BM: That day up there it took me all day to get through London. It had been damaged by bombing. But I got to Woodley about dusk. And as I was walking across the aerodrome to go to the mess hut there which was an inn on the edge of the aerodrome a Hurricane was circling around at zero feet. And it finally landed and almost ran into a hedge. And I hurried across and the pilot clambered out and a very strange language, ‘Where am I? Where am I?’ And he was a Pole. He’d been up fighting the Germans and got lost. And as a result of that he stayed with us that night.
JH: Yes.
BM: You can imagine. We heard his whole life story.
JH: Yes.
BM: And he was really angry with the Germans. Really, really angry. And his history was that he’d been in the Polish Air Force and they were knocked out of the war more or less overnight. First when war was first declared.
JH: Well they had cavalry charges, didn’t they?
BM: And he went down. Got out through Italy.
JH: Yes.
BM: To Gibraltar. Then got up back to England. And he trained then with the RAF. And I might say they were a gallant mob the Polish aircrew. Very gallant.
JH: Yes.
BM: They were I’d say better lot of aeroplanes and I remember my rear gunner who had earlier on been posted to a Polish fighter squadron as a gunner in a Boulton Paul Defiant, that was a single engine fighter with a turret just behind the pilot. And he said the pilot there said, ‘If you don’t shoot them down I’ll ram them.’ And he said, ‘He meant it.’ At any rate the rear gunner was very happy to train with a timid pilot like me, I think.
JH: So, Bill, just, just run me through the type of aircraft you flew during training. Did you start with the, for example Tiger Moth?
BM: I trained on a single engine Miles Magister. I remember the first couple of flights very well because it was December then and there was a frost on the ground. You could see the River Thames below. You could see a village there with smoke coming up and you could see Windsor Castle in the background. I said to the, I was flying at the time, he was sitting in front and you communicated by a speaking tube.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I said to him, ‘What a marvellous sight this is.’ I was completely wrapped up in the view. He said, ‘I’ve got it,’ he took over the ruddy plane and put into a dive. Straight down to the village below and said, he said, ‘Do you see that church down there? Do you see the graveyard? If you don’t watch your airspeed that’s where you’ll finish up.’ [laughs] That’s when I found the number one in flying is your airspeed. You’ve got to watch it. Watch it. Watch it. Coming in to land. Taking off. All the time.
JH: Yeah. Yeah.
BM: That was my first. And that was the approach I used when I was instructing people flying. That’s the approach I used with them too later on.
JH: It sounds like a very good tip you got there. It stood you in good stead.
BM: At any rate I didn’t, didn’t, wasn’t posted back then to my original place. I was posted back to Woolwich. And I sat there for a couple of weeks. At that stage there were quite a few air raids on London.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I remember there was an unexploded bomb landed on the Woolwich College. We were all evacuated while they dealt with it. They dealt with it by boring a hole in it both sides with a drill clamped to the thing. And then they squirted water in to sort of do the — get rid of the explosive. I remember that quite well.
JH: Yes.
BM: But then I got a posted from there down to the mouth of the Thames to Shoeburyness which was a medium and heavy artillery training regiment. And I trained people there.
JH: Yes.
BM: And got very friendly with the colonel in charge of the place and I told him how I’d love to get in to the bloody air force. I’d already done some flying.
JH: Yes.
BM: And he said, ‘Well, I’ve got a friend at the war house.’
JH: Yeah.
BM: And he said, ‘If you like I’ll give you a letter of introduction to him.’ And he gave me a couple of days off to go up to the war house which had been evacuated to Cheltenham.
JH: Yes.
BM: And he was there. A series of big huts. They kept all the army records there.
JH: Yes.
BM: But at any rate I went up there and I went out and I met the major man. His friend. And as a result of that I got a transfer to the air force.
JH: That’s marvellous. So did you then —
BM: I must say —
JH: Go to an OTU? Officer training unit in the air force.
BM: No. That was [pause] they sent me to another Elementary Flying Course.
JH: Oh yes. Of course.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yeah.
BM: But I might say the reason I was popular with the man at Shoeburyness was, well it was on the shore there it was set right the tide would go out over the sand and mud flats as far as the eye could see and then the tide would come in lapping. And I realised no one had been fishing there for years. And there was a boat shed there with a little rowing boat.
JH: Yes.
BM: I got the rowing boat out at the right tide. I went out and I caught flounder by the dozen.
JH: Good Lord.
BM: I was feeding the bloody mess with fish. Rationing was on but not very severe.
JH: Yeah.
BM: I was very popular with the CO as a result of it. That’s how I got into the air force [laughs]
JH: That’s an amazing —
BM: That’s when I got posted to a —
JH: Amazing story. Yeah.
BM: Posted from the place by the sea to, to a college at Cambridge.
JH: Cambridge.
BM: Another. Yes.
JH: In Cambridge or —
BM: In Cambridge. Yeah.
JH: Oh right. Yeah.
BM: Not the airfield.
JH: Yeah.
BM: It was an initial training place where they were marching people around who had just joined the air force.
JH: Yes. A bit of square bashing.
BM: I explained to the man in charge and as a result of that he got me moved from there after a couple of weeks.
JH: Yeah.
BM: But it was a very pleasant interlude. I joined with the elders at the dining mess and I had a very pleasant couple of weeks at Cambridge.
JH: Yes.
BM: Went punting on the Backs and it was very pleasant. At any rate I got posted then to another Elementary Flying School at Peterborough.
JH: Yes.
BM: I went there for another couple of months and from there I was posted to the next stage which was Flying Training School. Elementary to begin with. Then you went to a flying training. If you were going in to bombers you went over, the training place was twin engine planes which — that’s where I got posted.
JH: Yes.
BM: Cranwell had twin-engined Oxfords.
JH: Yes.
BM: Airspeed Oxfords. Which is a very pleasant aeroplane to fly.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I trained on that and a couple of things there that come to mind. When I arrived in 1941, about a week before Whittle’s jet had been flying there for the first time. It was the talk of the station. Highly secret of course. You were told not on any account to mention this but I heard all about it but I actually didn’t see it flying. But that’s where it first flew. It was housed in a hangar away at the far end of the aerodrome and guarded by civilian police apparently. They wouldn’t trust the air force guards for the secrecy angle.
JH: Yes.
BM: But at any rate it took a couple of years for that to be developed. If you read Whittle’s book I think they got the Rover people to start trying to develop it. They didn’t do much and then they handed it over to Rolls Royce and it got going within about twelve months after that. But of course the Germans had a jet flying in 1938 and they had the same experience. They realised that it would take a couple of years to develop and Hitler decided to adapt the scientific wing when it was flying because it would take a couple of years before it could. But as it turned out it took about three years before the Germans were able to develop it. And it took the British about three years too.
JH: So it became operational during.
BM: Before they got [unclear] Yes. Yes.
JH: I didn’t know that. It’s interesting.
BM: But that was one of the highlights of my flying training. Another highlight was I wore the King’s uniform there. The main building at Cranwell, a very long building with a big tower in the middle and a small tower on the two wings either side. We were in the cinema one night and suddenly the whole building shook. Someone said, ‘Oh, we’ve been bombed,’ but we hadn’t been bombed. An old Whitley on night flying had landed and hit one of the little towers at the end of the long building. And the building was on fire. And we all raced out of course and they said, ‘Get the pictures out.’ In the corridors there they had a lot of very valuable pictures which had been evacuated from the National Gallery in London.
JH: Some old Masters.
BM: Yes. Priceless pictures. We carted the pictures from that wing of the building and in the main entrance to the building was the King’s uniform in a glass case. Well, the glass case, we got that open and after the fire was put out we each wore the King’s uniform and saluted each other [laughs]
JH: Well deserved.
BM: But the only survivor of the crash was the rear gunner. The rest of the crew bought it. And the Whitley of course was completely burned out.
JH: Yes. So, Bill, at this stage were you earmarked as a pilot or —
BM: Yes.
JH: Could have been a navigator.
BM: You were earmarked when you went to Cranwell as a bomber pilot. Twin engine training.
JH: Yeah. So you passed all the aptitude and —
BM: Oh yes. Yes. Yes.
JH: You were heading in that direction.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And you did a bit of night flying there but you more or less did about fifty or sixty hour a day flying.
JH: Yes.
BM: Instructing. And then you did about ten hours night flying.
JH: Yes.
BM: Which wasn’t a lot.
JH: Yes.
BM: And you didn’t know much about night flying really. And another thing at Cranwell when I was there when they were experimenting with a flare path called sodium flares. Which were a flare path for these I don’t know what sodium meant but there was a thing where you put on goggles and you could see the flares, but you had dark glasses. You couldn’t see anything else. But they never, I had a couple of hours trying to learn night flying on that.
JH: Yes.
BM: But it was abandoned because the main problem as I saw it your goggles fogged up.
JH: Yes.
BM: You were sweating with. And if you tried to land looking —
JH: Yes.
BM: Seeing the flarepath ready for, you were sweating profusely and your goggles fogged up very quickly.
JH: Yes.
BM: But at any rate —
JH: Yes.
BM: I got passed out of that without much trouble.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I was still then in the army. Still wearing the army uniform.
JH: Really.
BM: And I had the job of marching the bloody cadet trainees around. But as a result I was, dined with the officers.
JH: Yes.
BM: And got to know the chief flying instructor very well. And he was going to get me posted on to Stirlings. They were the buzz thing then. An enormous aircraft.
JH: Yes.
BM: Just coming in to service and everyone thought that, you know the war winner. As it turned out the Stirlings were a dead loss.
JH: They were short lived weren’t they?
BM: Short lived.
JH: Yeah.
BM: They took them off operations.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Put them on glider towing and on training. And as an operational plane they had no height. I think they could only get above about twelve thousand feet.
JH: Yes.
BM: They were slow and cumbersome and the losses were very heavy.
JH: Yes. Yes.
BM: At any rate from there I got posted to an operational training place. Fortunately it wasn’t a Stirling one.
JH: Where was that?
BM: It was a Wellington one.
JH: Where was that?
BM: At Harwell.
JH: Harwell. Yes. In Essex.
BM: About fifty miles west of London I suppose.
JH: Yes. Harwell.
BM: Very pleasant. It was a grass. No fixed firm runway. It had been a peacetime station. And very pleasant place.
JH: Yeah.
BM: A very pleasant place to live.
JH: Yes.
BM: And the countryside was very pleasant indeed. From there you crewed up. You got your crew there.
JH: You crewed. Tell me about your, your crewing up. How did that happen?
BM: Just put in a big assembly room. They put about a half dozen pilots, about a dozen front gunners, a dozen rear gunners and a dozen navigators, a dozen wireless operators. They let you sort yourselves out and you formed your own crew. I don’t know how. But it wasn’t a very efficient system I think. But I got lumbered — no I wasn’t lumbered. But we got together with a very good navigator. Had been a student, a university student. He was good. We’d got a very good wireless operator. He’d been a boy apprentice in the air force. He was the only sort of skilled member of our crew I’d say. And the two gunners. Front gunner, he was a lorry driver but very little education. But the rear gunner was a very decent English chap. He was well educated and had been working as a welder and his family were, and a reserved occupation but he’d joined up and his family were very annoyed with him for joining the air force. He’d joined up and he’d got posted as a gunner to a Polish squadron where he served for a while and then he got posted to our crowd. That was our crew. They were all English.
JH: Yes.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Would I, would I be right in thinking you were the most senior?
BM: I was the most senior.
JH: In terms of age.
BM: Yes.
JH: Yeah
BM: Both in age. They were all about nineteen or twenty.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I was known as the old man. And we had a second pilot too but —
JH: Yeah.
BM: He was a bit dumb I’m afraid.
JH: Yes.
BM: He was the only chap in the crew that I was a bit worried about. The second pilot.
JH: Your co-pilot. Yeah.
BM: Yes. Yes. Yes.
JH: Was he also the flight engineer in a, on a Wellington?
BM: No. That was later.
JH: Yes. Ok.
BM: That happened when you went to four engines.
JH: Right. Yeah.
BM: But —
JH: Yes.
BM: We trained there and as I say we did day flying. Day flying was very pleasant.
JH: Yeah.
BM: The syllabus was you did five day cross-country flights.
JH: Yes.
BM: And the first one you went with an instructor. The next —
JH: Yes.
BM: Four you did on your own. But you flew across to Northern Ireland, up the west of England. Up the coast.
JH: Yes.
BM: Up around the top of Scotland and down the east coast of England.
JH: Yes.
BM: When the weather was good — very pleasant.
JH: Yes.
BM: And at that early stage of the war you weren’t that well supervised. Later on you had to fly strictly according to time and had to log everything in.
JH: Yes.
BM: You couldn’t deviate or fly low as you could in the days we did.
JH: Yes.
BM: I remember I got a very, very bad sort of introduction to flying with the first cross-country. I went with an operational pilot. He’d just come off operations.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And I remember we flew across the north of Wales there at Northfleet and I remember horses bolting sheds and he said, ‘Make sure if you’re low flying,’ the advice he gave me, ‘Reel in your trailing aerial.’ The wireless op had let out a trailing aerial which was trailing behind about fifty or a hundred feet of wire with lead weights on it to keep it below.
JH: Yes.
BM: He said, ‘If you fly low and you break tiles on a roof with your trailing aerial,’ he said, ‘You’re gone,’ he said, ‘You’re court martialled.’ Low flying was a court martial offence.
JH: Yes.
BM: Quite rightly. It was completely stupid.
JH: Yes.
BM: That was a very, very bad example to give the crew.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Because I’m very sure we saw the result of that at night when you came off the day flying and had a drink with the rest of the crew who’d been flying. I remember one crew reckoned, ‘Oh our pilot flew that low over the sea he was able to stir up the water with his prop tips.’ And a couple of days later they were never heard of again. I’m very sure he hit the water. I don’t know.
JH: Yes.
BM: But that —
JH: Yeah.
BM: A very very bad example.
JH: Yeah.
BM: But quite rightly low flying was a court martial offence.
JH: Yes.
BM: And if you got court martialled and got sent to the Glasshouse it was very hard.
JH: Yeah. You —
BM: Very hard.
JH: Yes. You obviously paid heed to that.
BM: Yeah. Yeah.
JH: Part of your training operations, of your training flights did you do any of these nickel raids?
BM: No. We didn’t do. We didn’t do any nickels.
JH: In Europe where they were dropping pamphlets and that kind of thing
BM: Almost did. I think the weather was bad.
JH: Yes.
BM: That’s why we didn’t get sent on it.
JH: Yes.
BM: But I remember we, we dropped live bombs at that early stage of the war.
JH: Yes.
BM: Later on you only dropped twelve and a half pound practice bombs.
JH: Yes.
BM: We dropped about half a dozen fifty pound bombs.
JH: Yes.
BM: Out in the Bristol Channel.
JH: Yes.
BM: Now, I remember well the take off with that. It was very calm day and they said, grass aerodrome and they were doubtful whether we should go.
JH: Yes.
BM: And the engines were de-rated a bit on the Wellingtons and there was a line of trees at the other end of the aerodrome. At any rate they finally said, ‘Make sure you get off, lift off early and run up your aircraft back to the hedge at the far end of the field.’ At any rate we had no trouble in getting off the ground.
JH: Yes.
BM: No trouble clearing the tree.
JH: Yes.
BM: Then we weren’t climbing. I suddenly realised I hadn’t raised the bloody undercarriage. That’s when I found out — I thought the second pilot should have picked that up.
JH: Yes.
BM: He should have known that.
JH: Ok. Yeah.
BM: And he should have been checking on everything.
JH: Yeah.
BM: But a couple of other things like that happened without, I never really trusted him.
JH: Yes. Ok. Shall we talk about how you were posted to, to Malta.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Would that fit in now?
BM: Well, then we were —
JH: Yeah.
BM: Finished our training there after our night flying.
JH: Yeah.
BM: We just missed out on that thousand bomber raid. We were only half way through our night flying. And that thousand bomber, about a third of the planes there were Training Command. About four or five went from our place.
JH: Yes.
BM: Flown by an operational pilot and instructor with a pupil crew. But the pupil crew were almost finished their night flying.
JH: Yes.
BM: Which we hadn’t done.
JH: Yeah.
BM: So as a result of that I missed that raid.
JH: Can you remember the — I’ll note the date of that? Can you remember the year and date of that bomber, thousand bomber raid?
BM: It was [pause] April. April or May. 1942.
JH: ’42.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Very good propaganda value.
Other: Hitler’s birthday.
JH: Yes.
BM: But then when we finished our training we expected to be posted then to an operational squadron in England. But at that stage Rommel had broken through and was hammering on the gates of Cairo. And they suddenly decided to send a couple of Wellington squadrons out to Cairo. And they gave us a brand new aircraft. And that was the most pleasant flying I’ve ever had. The aircraft was a highly secret one with radar aerials all over it.
JH: Are they the Stickleback?
BM: Stickleback ones.
JH: That’s it. I’ve read about them.
BM: The Mark 8s.
JH: Mark 8.
BM: Mark 8. It was to pick up submarines. Or ships at night. We didn’t know how to operate the radar but at any rate they —
JH: Yeah.
BM: We spent twelve hours flying in the new aircraft. We flew all around England in the brand new aircraft. Very pleasant.
JH: Yes.
BM: And then we got the final word to go to Malta. And we flew down to Portreath down near the south, South West area of London there. The station right on the coast.
JH: In Cornwall.
BM: Cornwall. Yes.
JH: Cornwall. Yes.
BM: Yes.
JH: Yeah.
BM: We took off from there and they told us to keep well out to sea. Not to get anywhere near the French coast. And to come in late in the day. We took off about seven in the morning I think.
JH: Yes.
BM: And we had no trouble at all. We didn’t sight anything. We kept relatively low. About the best cruising height was about six thousand feet.
JH: Yes.
BM: Which we were at. And the only danger would have been to run into a German aircraft patrol which was very very remote.
JH: Yes. Did you have any fighter escort going out?
BM: No. No. No.
JH: For a while?
BM: We just kept out to sea.
JH: Yeah. So what was the flying time to — it was —
BM: We got there about —
JH: To Malta wasn’t it?
BM: About, yeah about ten hours.
JH: Ten hours. Yeah.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yeah.
BM: We came in close to the coast of Portugal about three in the afternoon.
JH: Yes.
BM: And we hugged the coast there down to the big bay there where the Battle of Trafalgar took place.
JH: Yes.
BM: And from there suddenly we saw the Rock of Gibraltar looming out of the afternoon sun.
JH: Yes.
BM: And there we had a, a very frightening incident happened.
JH: Really?
BM: I called up the pilots to, ‘Come up and have a look and see the result of your labour,’ and called up the navigator.
JH: Yes.
BM: He came out of his office. And he came up and he was leaning over my shoulder looking out at the Rock of Gibraltar. He put his hand down and turned on the full bloody flaps. Which I didn’t realise.
JH: By mistake.
BM: Suddenly the aircraft’s speed fell away. I didn’t know what had happened. And I had to put the bloody nose down and open the throttles. And I was thinking about getting the, I thought something had gone wrong with the engines or —
JH: Yeah.
BM: I didn’t understand.
JH: Yeah. Loss of airspeed.
BM: I had to tell the wireless operator to send out an SOS. So I was getting prepared to land in the bloody sea and I don’t know how but it occurred to me that the flaps were down. I didn’t realise. I put them up.
JH: Yes. Yeah
BM: Came around and landed [laughs]
JH: Exchanged a few pleasantries no doubt.
BM: So I had a complete sweat. Yeah.
JH: So —
BM: At any rate we spent the night in Gibraltar. Very pleasant. And didn’t get any sleep that night.
JH: Yes.
BM: Didn’t get much sleep the night before in England of course either. And we spent the night there they were blasting into the rock. We were in a Nissen hut at the base of the rock and the blasting was going on all night. And they were also practicing deck landings next door.
JH: Yeah.
BM: So we didn’t get a lot of sleep that night either.
JH: Yeah.
BM: But we took off for Malta the next day at 4 o’clock. Four in the afternoon.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And another aircraft. We decided, a friend of mine had also landed and two of us flew together in formation for a while.
JH: Yes.
BM: On the way to Malta. And suddenly he turned and went back and I didn’t find out ‘til much later in the war.
JH: Yeah.
BM: What had happened. Someone had opened the hatch above the pilot which opened it. You couldn’t close it in flight.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Someone apparently had. I don’t know the second pilot had grabbed the lever there.
JH: Yeah.
BM: The hatch had come open to he had to go back and start afresh. And he didn’t arrive in Malta until we’d left the next day.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I found out later the big danger with landing at Malta too was that the man in charge in Malta was, could keep you there and he could hand your aircraft over to someone else.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And he could keep you there to do operations from Malta which were very unfriendly of course.
JH: Yes.
BM: So Malta was a place you didn’t want to stay at. At any rate we got to Malta about ten or eleven at night and they’d warned us that, before we left that, be careful. You’re not very far from Sicily there.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Which was German controlled. And the wireless operator would have to contact Malta and get a thing called a QDM. That’s a direction.
JH: Yeah.
BM: To fly to Malta. So we’d check up. It was just about a thousand miles journey.
JH: Yeah.
BM: He had to, that wireless operator had to check up that you were at Malta. And they said be careful the Germans could send you a message directing you to Sicily.
JH: Yes.
BM: At any right the flight there was very pleasant. We were flying at about six thousand feet.
JH: Yes.
BM: And my heart sank when we were about half an hour from Malta and the whole of the sea below clouded over. And they’d told us when we got to Malta they’d put a couple of searchlights when we got there about ten or eleven at night. And when we got to Malta the whole place was clouded over and I was circling around for about five minutes ‘til I finally saw the searchlights through the cloud. And I came down and the, there was high ground in Malta. About eight hundred feet I think.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And got under the cloud at about a thousand feet and there was the runway. I came around and landed there and very gratefully. And the landing wasn’t bad which I was very much afraid of. And we taxied around. We were met by the ground crew. They were in military uniform. Not the air force blue. I thought, God we’re at the wrong [laughs] we’re at the German aerodrome but it wasn’t of course. But they were mainly interested if we had any sandwiches left which we had, and any, or and any cigarettes. I’d taken the trouble of buying a thousand cigarettes when I left to hand out when we got to Malta. And I told them that in Gibraltar, would I take more cigarettes? They said no the crew that takes those generally doesn’t get to Malta. Apparently there was a bit of a hoodoo about anyone carting stuff to Malta.
JH: Yes.
BM: Bad luck evidently.
JH: Bad luck.
BM: So, I only took about a thousand cigarettes to give to the mess when we got there.
JH: Yes. Yeah.
BM: There’s a, we got to the air, they told us, ‘When we get there on no account,’ they said, ‘Your path on the aerodrome is at daybreak but don’t leave the aerodrome unattended err your aircraft unattended. You might find all your parachutes have disappeared if you do.’ They said, ‘We haven’t got guards on the aerodrome.’ Guards were on, they had bay, sort of shelters for the aeroplanes off the aerodrome. Horse shoe shaped construction of sandbags. Well, you taxied your aeroplane off and they pushed it into these shelters. And they said, ‘Stay with the aircraft. Get someone to stay with the aerodrome err the aeroplane until daybreak and then they’ll come out and you’ll have to taxi into a shelter.’ But navigator and I then went in to have a bit to eat at the mess there and when we got there, there was a bloody party going on. Incredible thing. And all the pilots and we were welcomed in because we’d just arrived in our flying suits. They came around. The pilots were all fighter pilots and the reason they were there was a crew in a Beaufort that day had been shot down and been taken prisoner on a Greek island and it had been there for about a week and the Germans, an Italian seaplane called to pick them up to fly them back to Italy. And when they were in the air the three people from, the captives overcame the bloody guards in the aeroplane and made it fly to Malta. And we saw it in the harbour the next day. A float plane. And that was the party.
JH: What a story.
BM: Yeah. I think the pilot, the captive pilot was a South African. And there was an Australian among them. And there were two or three others. But they were having this party. And the story goes with one of them said, evidently when they were captives the food there was much better at Malta. One said, ‘The food there was good. We must do this again.’
JH: Yeah. I like that.
BM: But we saw the plane the next day.
JH: Yeah.
BM: In the harbour there. But it was pure bloody Hollywood. The whole thing.
JH: Yeah. So, what, what was it like on, on Malta? Was Malta, was the feeling of this is an outpost. Heavily defended.
BM: Yeah. We were only there. We stayed the night then. We went back to the aeroplane and slept in it. In the plane. At daybreak then taxied in to the shelter.
JH: Because you were heading for Egypt wasn’t it?
BM: We were heading for Egypt.
JH: Yes.
BM: We were only there a stop off. For a refuel stop. So they came and collected us at daybreak and very foolishly we spent the bloody day bloody sightseeing around the Malta instead of having a sleep.
JH: Yes.
BM: Bloody crazy.
JH: Yes.
BM: But it was too good an opportunity. We actually got a taxi there which was a horse drawn vehicle. And there were two or three air raids during the day. You could hear the machine guns going up in the air and this fellow driving around in this horse drawn taxi. But at any rate we reported back to the aerodrome about 4 o’clock and they briefed us then and said, ‘Well, the weather’s good. Nothing to worry about there. The only danger is units of the Italian fleet might be somewhere on your route when you fly from here to Cairo.’ And it was just as we get a thousand miles from Cairo, a thousand from Gib. At any rate we, they said come back, and just get aboard the aircraft and taxi it out.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Wait at the end of the runway. Just before dark. And on, if there’s an air raid comes along get off the ground straight away but otherwise stand by waiting there. And if you see us flash a green get on the runway and take off straight away. We sat on the plane there and suddenly three people turned up and said, ‘We’re your passengers.’ Two of them were two Dutch seamen.
JH: Yes.
BM: And a lieutenant from submarines which were based in Malta.
JH: Yes.
BM: They were passengers to go back with us to Cairo.
JH: Yes.
BM: At any rate we were sitting there waiting and suddenly the bloody air raid siren went. And people in the control place flashed green at us to get going and —
JH: And you were on the tarmac.
BM: I was waiting at the edge of the, the edge of the runway there.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And I taxied on. At that moment two Beaufighters which had been in sandbagged shelters nearby they came out at high speed and turned on to the runway, took off and climbed at about forty five degrees
JH: Yeah.
BM: They were night fighters apparently. But any rate I got on the runway and I thought I’d do a thing that I tried to, I opened up too quickly and if you’re not careful you swing on take-off.
JH: Yeah.
BM: You’ve got to often open one throttle before the others.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I swung right off the bloody runway and I had to turn back, taxi back and start again. In the meantime the fellow was flashing a green light at me to get going. I got off the next time without any trouble. We flew out to sea. They said, ‘Fly out to sea at five hundred feet before you set course.’ You could see that air raid in progress. Quite a sight. Cannons firing and searchlights and —
JH: Yes.
BM: Oh dear.
JH: What were they targeting? The Germans.
BM: We then set course for Malta and the main problem was keeping awake.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And part of the time I had the second pilot flying. Him I was, I didn’t trust him much. So I had to try and stay awake. I remember standing up a lot of the time. And with hindsight what I should have done, bloody crazy was called up this flight lieutenant fellow to stand by to see we didn’t go to sleep.
JH: Yeah.
BM: We had a bit of a scare once when we, there was a bit of moon and there was some shadows on the ocean. We thought this is the Italian fleet.
JH: Yes.
BM: But it wasn’t.
JH: Yes.
BM: But then we didn’t have, there was no wind apparently the whole journey. I think the navigator said he was on the one course the whole way.
JH: Yes. So that air space between Malta and Egypt. Was that controlled by the Germans to a large extent?
BM: Yes. It was. The Italians.
JH: Yeah. The Italians. Yeah.
BM: The Italian fleet were in charge more or less. But they weren’t. It wasn’t the Italian fleet. They were knocked out largely by the Swordfish aircraft in that air raid.
JH: Yes.
BM: They knocked out half the bloody Italian fleet. I’ve forgotten the name of the place. The Italian port they raided. But that was the old Swordfish from an aircraft carrier. At any rate nothing happened then until we were about just at daybreak. We were about a hundred miles from Cairo and I spotted a submarine on the ocean ahead of us. You could see it in the path of light from the sun which was just appearing then and I suddenly thought it might be a bloody submarine —
JH: Friendly or otherwise.
BM: In trouble or something. It shouldn’t be on the surface. Why was it on the surface? And as we dropped near it started flashing a very fast Morse code as the Naval people did then. Flashing a message at us. I couldn’t, it was too fast for me so I called the wireless operator up, ‘Better come up and read their message they’re flashing.’ And I had visions of this crippled submarine wanting help and I thought well we’ll send a distress beacon. Tell them they’re here. But the message they sent us was, ‘Good morning.’ [laughs] From that we went on and landed in Cairo. And at that stage I was completely half drunk with fatigue. I remember when I got out of the aircraft I sat down on the ground and went to sleep. I woke up and on the ground you see beside me a fellow with a revolver around his waist, a cowboy hat on and flying boots on. It was an American fighter pilot who’d been ferrying an aircraft across Africa from the west coast of Africa. That’s the only way they got aircraft there. They took it by plane to the west of Africa then.
JH: Yes.
BM: And they flew them across Africa.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And he’d flown a, I think a, oh a fighter plane across. They flew across in formation.
JH: Yes.
BM: With an escort. But any rate from there we got down to. They woke me up and said, ‘Would you fly the aircraft down to the Suez Canal,’ which very foolishly I said yes. And I took off again and flew down to, down to the squadron. 148 Squadron. Based on the Canal.
JH: Yes.
BM: And that’s where we began operations.
JH: 104
BM: No. 148.
JH: Oh 148.
BM: 148.
JH: Yeah. Ok. Yeah. 148.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yeah. So that’s, that’s where you started off.
BM: Yes. Yes. Yes.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And the target then was Tobruk. Tobruk was the only sort of port on the African coast which was giving supplies to the Germans who were on the outskirts of Cairo by then. At Alemein. And we were, our main target was Tobruk.
JH: Yes
BM: So far as they —
JH: Which was in German hands at that time
BM: The Germans were —
JH: Yeah
BM: Bringing in to Tobruk. Yeah.
JH: Yes. Yes. So you were targeting the supply ships coming in.
BM: Coming into Tobruk. Yeah.
JH: All the defences.
BM: The war was there too.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yes.
BM: To begin with I think we did about eight trips to Tobruk.
JH: Yes.
BM: Which was quite a distance. It was about six or seven hours flight.
JH: So your, tell me about your first operation. Was that one of these Tobruk raids?
BM: Yes. I remember that very well. Went as a second pilot to an experienced pilot. Flight Lieutenant Moore was our pilot.
JH: Yeah. You were the dickie.
BM: An experienced pilot.
JH: You say the dickie is it? You were the dickie.
BM: Yeah. I was second pilot. Yes.
JH: Yes. Ok.
BM: Very pleasant. You had no responsibility. You just sat there and watched everything. And when we got to Tobruk they had quite a few — they had about a dozen anti-aircraft guns there.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Which started firing at you when you got near there.
JH: Bill, tell me was this a daylight raid or night raid.
BM: Night raid. All night.
JH: All night.
BM: All night.
JH: Yeah. Yeah.
BM: At any rate I remember he was the fella who, he did the bombing run. The navigator was the bomb aimer then in those days. Navigator bomb aimer. He was down in the bomb bay to drop the bombs but the, this second, this instructor pilot he directed the run in. You know, ‘Right. Right. Left. Left. Centre.’ And then he said to the bomb aimer —
[telephone ringing]
BM: Hello. Hello. Hello. Just hold on a minute. Just tell them it’s my phone. See what they want. I can’t. I’ve got hearing aids in.
JH: Oh. Hello. This is John Horsburgh here. I’m actually interviewing Bill at the moment. Can I take a message? Yes. Yes. I’m interviewing him now. Yeah. Can I take your number and he’ll call you back? [delete] ok I’ll get, I’ll get Mr McRae to call you back.
BM: Tell him I’ll call him back
JH: Ok. Thank you, Justin.
BM: Thanks.
JH: We were, we were talking about your first operation.
BM: My first bombing run.
JH: Yeah. Your first bombing run. Yeah
BM: He called up the pilot and said, ‘I’ve done this trip three or four few times. Let me. Let me drop the bombs.’ So instead of letting the bloody navigator direct us onto the target he put the plane into a dive and roared across Tobruk at high speed, pulled the bomb toggle and dropped all the bombs in one thing.
JH: The whole lot. The whole string.
BM: The whole lot. Yeah.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Which was completely against all our instruction in training. And that sort of thing you never thought of doing. But at any rate when we got back we got debriefed at the debriefing we didn’t mention this. Had we done so he might have been in big trouble I think.
JH: Yes. Yes.
BM: But you were graded LMF if you did that sort of thing.
JH: Yes.
BM: But the navigator was very upset about it. So was I [laughs] But that was my first bombing. I did another trip with another crew another night but they did the right thing.
JH: Yes.
BM: We got caught in the searchlights that night too which was very unpleasant. But that was my first experience of a bombing raid. Which we didn’t report to the authorities.
JH: Just between you and I this is [laughs] Ok.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yes.
BM: Yeah. Don’t mention it [laughs]
JH: No. We won’t [laughs] Tell me about the first operation when you were actually in control of the plane on the bomb run.
[phone ringing]
JH: Shall I? Hello, Bill McRae’s phone. John Horsborough. I’m actually interviewing Bill at the moment. Yeah. Yes. Will do. Ok. Righto. Ok. Bye.
BM: Who’s that?
JH: Jeannie.
BM: Oh right.
JH: Coffee tomorrow.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Anyway, back to your first operation. You’re in control.
BM: Oh yes. Yes.
JH: Yeah.
BM: I remember that quite well because we were based on the Suez Canal and one of the things you had to be careful of you could see a ship almost at the end of the runway going across the desert. The Canal was at the far end of the runway. And you’d just see a ship there sailing across the desert. You had to be careful taking off that there weren’t any ships going through the canal because when you took off you didn’t get any height. You’d be flying for about two or three miles I’d say. You climbed very slowly. And you climbed towards, turned towards Tobruk and you climbed up as high as you could get which in those with those, planes it was about ten or twelve thousand feet. And I remember we, getting up along the coast of North Africa the navigator went down below to check the position, map reading the coast and he called me up and said, ‘Mac,’ he said, ‘We’re flying over a convoy. There are balloons down below.’ I said, ‘This is bloody crazy. There are no balloons here.’ I banked around and had a look and there were four things that looked like balloons. They were puffs of anti-aircraft fire.
JH: Heading your way.
BM: They were firing at us but about a thousand feet below us [laughs] So we immediately changed course. At any rate the, quite a lot of flak. Quite a lot of searchlights at Tobruk. The thing I remember about the searchlights they would all go out and there would be one would suddenly come on alone. A blue searchlight. And about five seconds later all the searchlights would concentrate on one plane and they’d hold that plane for quite a while.
JH: It’s coning it isn’t it? Yeah.
BM: But it didn’t come on to us. We rode it out. Do a normal bombing run. And you took photographs when you dropped your bombs too.
JH: Yes.
BM: You held course for about, I think ten or fifteen seconds till the bombs exploded and the camera took a photograph of where your bombs went.
JH: Yes.
BM: But we were bombing the wharves mainly.
JH: Yes.
BM: I don’t know whether. I don’t know whether there was anything there to bomb really.
JH: I think you told me. I think it was you told me you actually took part in the battle of El Alemein.
BM: Yes.
JH: Targeting German supply ships.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Would that be right?
BM: Well, after we were on the Canal we moved up to Kilo Forty which was forty kilos on the road from Cairo to Alexandria. Just a desert aerodrome. And from there we more or less supported the army.
JH: Yes.
BM: Bombing German airfields behind the lines.
JH: Yes.
BM: And bombing army targets which were marked by aircraft from Alexandria. Fleet Air Arm aircraft dropping flares. I don’t know how they got they got in on the act.
JH: Yes.
BM: But they’d dropped flares for us to bomb on.
JH: Yes.
BM: We did half a dozen trips on that before El Alemein.
JH: Yes.
BM: And on El Alemein night we did two bombing runs. One at about eleven at night and one about two in the morning because we were not that far from the battle front. You could hear the barrage start up at about 10 o’clock. On the 23rd of October I think it was.
JH: It’s —
BM: After El Alemein of course old Montgomery was successful but I always thought he, he was too cautious by half because he knew all the German plans because Rommel had been sending messages back to Hitler. He was short of petrol. He was short of reinforcements and pleading with Hitler to send reinforcements by way of aircraft or I think the Germans were supplying their fighters, called JU52s bringing aircraft fuel in. That’s how short of fuel they were.
JH: Yes.
BM: But Hitler of course said, ‘Don’t surrender. Fight to the last man.’ But Rommel fortunately decided that was bloody silly because he got quite a few Germans out of Africa. He retreated. Very skilfully retreated. And I think Montgomery should have thrown everything at the Germans because he had a couple of people from that Enigma machine with him relaying messages that Rommel was sending to Hitler. How desperate he was for supplies.
JH: Yes.
BM: And how desperate he was to sort of get reinforcements. But Rommel didn’t move. He had sort of absolute overpowering authority.
JH: Yes.
BM: We had about seven to one air superiority.
JH: Yes
BM: I reckon Rommel should have thrown us during the daytime. He could have had about three or four to one fighter superiority and he had about three to one, he had about seven to one bomber superiority.
JH: So, that was the feeling among the squadron that the 8th Army didn’t follow through enough.
BM: Yes. I reckon he should have. He should have thrown everything into the battle.
JH: Yes.
BM: And he would have knocked Rommel out and he would have captured an awful lot of Germans.
JH: Yes.
BM: Anyway, he was successful so —
JH: Yes. I, I read somewhere that the Desert Air Force got involved in this concept of close air support. The actual air force involving with the infantry. In fact they were forward.
BM: Ah yes.
JH: Forward scouts passing on information to, to the air force.
BM: Yeah.
JH: And I read that the desert was where the, this close air support was really initiated.
BM: Yeah. Yeah.
JH: Did you have any experience of that?
BM: No. I was a bit disappointed there. I thought we should have been kept in touch with what was going on with the army. We never were.
JH: Yeah That’s interesting with your army background.
BM: I think —
JH: Artillery background.
BM: Yes.
JH: Yeah.
BM: I thought there was a bit of, probably ill feeling between the air force and the army. I don’t know. I could be wrong there. But they sort of fought their own war as it were.
JH: Yes.
BM: At any rate we followed up the army there when the army retreated. The Germans retreated. We followed up and we got as far as Tobruk. And we were dropping bombs on the retreating Germans and then we suddenly got a move to. I think — six planes will proceed forthwith to Halfway House. By that stage we were up behind Tobruk.
JH: So you were leap frogging.
BM: Leap frogging. Yes
JH: The base as, as the front moved
BM: When the Germans were retreating we were following. Yeah.
JH: Westwards. Yeah.
BM: And there wasn’t, when the message came to have six planes would proceed to Halfway House no one knew and I had to send a message back to find Halfway House from Malta. This was about a thousand miles from Gibraltar and a thousand miles from Cairo. It was known to the Navy as Halfway House.
JH: Yes.
BM: So the middle of the afternoon we got the message we were, had to take off at dark with two ground, two supplies of ground crew. Half a dozen ground crew staff.
JH: Yes.
BM: As passengers. So we, immediately we were headed for Malta.
JH: And how long were you based in Malta then?
BM: Well, it took about four hours to get there.
JH: Yeah.
BM: I remember well when we were nearing Malta there was a bloody line of lights appeared.
JH: Yes.
BM: I thought, God, we’ve gone to Italy or Sicily or somewhere. I called up the wireless, I said get an QDM. That’s a course to steer [unclear] and it was correct. We were. A convoy had gotten in a couple of ships and all the lights were on on the wharves. That’s the lights we were seeing. And we got to Malta and one of our planes landing hit a, one of the sand bagged bays near the beginning of the runway and went up in flames. We landed with this bloody thing flaming beside us. And we taxied in and found out that I think the pilot got out of it, I think. I think he lost his legs. But he was about the only one that survived, I think. But at any rate we operated from Malta then for a couple of months. That was early December then.
JH: Yes.
BM: 1942
JH: And were you operating from Malta as far as Sicily from there?
BM: Yes. Sicily was, Sicily was a main target. And North Africa. Retreating Germans. Tripoli.
JH: Yes.
BM: And Sfax and Sous. They were in Tunisia.
JH: Yes.
BM: The Germans were retreating there.
JH: Yes.
BM: Sending ships to pick them up. Yeah.
JH: Yes. So, yeah so Tunisia I believe you were on some important raids to Tunisia and Palermo. Is that correct?
BM: That’s correct. Yes, yeah.
JH: Yes. Do you want to mention a couple of those?
BM: Yes. I remember Palermo quite well because we didn’t take off at a scheduled time. Take off was delayed because there was bad weather and the trouble at Malta they had no weather reporting process so they could never predict the weather. You know the weather was a bit doubtful. Anyway we took off. We found the target all right. I was amazed at the, the, not much flak went up as we were coming out. Normally —
JH: Yeah.
BM: When you come up to a target. You see the guns firing.
JH: Yes.
BM: But there were no guns firing as we got up to the target.
JH: Yeah.
BM: When they started shooting. And we found out later there were only two aircraft got there. The rest got a recall. The others were all recalled because of bad weather. So we were the only two aircraft that got to the target.
JH: You didn’t get the message.
BM: We didn’t get the message. No [laughs] At any rate we were flying back we had trouble with the bad weather getting back.
JH: Yeah.
BM: I remember that well. Went into a storm or something.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Because they couldn’t forecast the weather then.
JH: Yeah.
BM: That was the trouble. And apparently the weather was very changeable because the Alps weather and the desert weather meet —
JH: Yes.
BM: Over the Mediterranean there.
JH: Yes.
BM: And you got very very severe turbulence.
JH: Yes.
BM: And you got a lot of static electricity.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Laying on the guns.
JH: Really?
BM: Yeah. Well, we survived Malta.
JH: Yes. Was it that raid to Palermo, I think you told me before both engines cut out for some reason. You lost your engines.
BM: Ah yes. Yes. Yeah.
JH: What happened there?
BM: There we were, actually it was another raid on Sicily that we had trouble with. Engine trouble. Had a thing with when we were bombing Sicily it was after we got, we came back to Cairo and they gave us one last raid. We suddenly got a message in Cairo. Take off at midnight. Return to Cairo. Which we did. And when we were there I found I’d done my tour of operations but a couple of the crew hadn’t finished and needed one more raid. And we were a bit lucky because we got the last raid was dropping supplies to people in Crete. At the western end of Crete a lot of people had escaped during the German invasion and there was a rebel force there fighting the Germans in the mountains. Very mountainous country and they came out at mid-day and loaded our aircraft with big metal containers about six feet long in the bomb bay and gave us a place to drop them at the western end of Crete. And we took off about dusk and got to Crete and they also gave us bundles of newspapers and said, ‘When you’ve dropped the bombs fly to the other side of Crete. The northern side where all the towns are.’ There were no towns in the western end.
JH: Yeah.
BM: It’s all mountainous, ‘And drop out these newspapers.’ Propaganda. German propaganda. Against the Germans for the Cretian, the Cretian people. At any rate we dropped the bombs, flew around Crete and flying along the northern side couldn’t see any land for a while and it was there that we found that we’d gone too far north.
JH: Yes.
BM: We saw a lot of bloody islands below and we knew that Crete was somewhere to the south so we went there and when we suddenly hit Crete they started firing guns at us. So you can imagine the newspapers were delivered very rapidly [laughs]
JH: Yeah.
BM: And we climbed straight away to ten thousand feet.
JH: Yeah.
BM: There were mountains in Crete up to eight thousand feet.
JH: Yes.
BM: At the western end. But we dropped the newspapers and went home. And that was our last operation.
JH: Yes. So at that stage it was the operations were coming to an end there. Did you have any idea what lay ahead of, of you and your crew? Was it going back to the UK or —
BM: No. We didn’t know.
JH: Or Italy.
BM: We went back and sat in Cairo for a couple of weeks.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And they suddenly told us to get aboard an aircraft and flew us down to Khartoum. Flying boat. And then we got another DC3 from there across the whole of Africa to the west coast of Africa.
JH: So where were you going? What was the plan?
BM: Back to England.
JH: Back to England.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Ok. Yeah.
BM: We got to —
JH: Yeah
BM: I think Takoradi, that was the place on the west coast of Africa. We sat there for about a week.
JH: That’s in Ghana I think.
BM: It was a small.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Coastal vehicle took us up to Freetown which is a main port in West Africa there.
JH: Yes.
BM: Where we got aboard [pause] what was the name of the boat? The Mauritania. An ocean liner.
JH: Yes.
BM: Bound for Liverpool. We went back unescorted. It went at high speed.
JH: Yes.
BM: It went about thirty eight knots I think. And went out in to the mid-Atlantic.
JH: With a convoy? Or —
BM: No. Alone.
JH: Solo.
BM: Just travelling at high speed. And altering course apparently every five minutes. Yeah. Zig-zagging.
JH: Zig-zagging.
BM: Went to Liverpool. So, and from there got a plane back to London.
JH: Yes. And some well-earned leave. Did you have any leave time?
BM: Went on leave there. Yes.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Yes.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Yeah. And from there got posted. Got a posting on to Training Command up in Lossiemouth. To an Operational Training Unit to instruct bomber crews.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I sat there until the, more or less the end of the war instructing people.
JH: What — is this 1944?
BM: This would be —
JH: Coming into Lossiemouth.
BM: 1943.
JH: 1943.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Yeah.
BM: It was there I found that I’d been awarded a DFC for flying in Africa and Alemein and so on.
JH: So you completed a tour.
BM: Completed a tour.
JH: And the DFC.
BM: DFC. Yes
JH: Yeah. Yeah. And your rank at that stage. Flight.
BM: I was a flight lieutenant.
JH: Yeah. Yeah.
BM: By that stage.
JH: Yes. So —
BM: And then, I was instructing there. I got posted down to the Empire Central Flying School at Hullavington in England.
JH: At where? Sorry?
BM: Empire Central Flying School.
JH: Yes.
BM: At Hullavington. Which was the main training place for bomber crews. I got trained to instruct bomber crews there. Then I went back and got on very well with the man in charge of the place at Lossiemouth wasn’t it?
JH: Yes.
BM: The instructing place. And he was the man I think that got me the Air Force Cross. I got an Air Force Cross for my instructing.
JH: Oh really. Yeah.
BM: We were the operational training instructing French crews.
JH: Yes.
BM: And as a result of that I got the French Legion d’honneur from there.
JH: Yes. I was there. I saw you. I was there when you were awarded.
BM: I tell the story how I got the AFC. When we were at Lossiemouth a bit of a surf would come in there at the right time of year. In Midsummer. The water was reasonably warm but we boys would get down for a swim in the river like this here.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And there’s a couple of reefs nearby. And I was able to catch a few waves. I’m no expert surfer but I was outstanding apparently. There were three or four English blokes. I was the talk of bloody the station, ‘You should have seen him.’ I could do a slow roll on a wave as it was coming. I could do a roll and come down right side up.
JH: Yeah.
BM: But they thought this was incredible. And the news of this got to the group captain in charge of the place and he said, ‘Well I believe that the reefs along the shore there, I believe there are lobsters there which are ready to be caught and no one has been near the place for years because mines had been laid thereabouts.’ He said, ‘We’ll go along one afternoon and might be able to get a lobster.’ So a crowd of us went along. The group captain in his car with three other fellas and myself wading around these reefs. And I was the only one that caught a bloody lobster. I moved down and threw it up on the shore. And after we got out and were drying ourselves the boys said, ‘What do you do with a lobster?’ We’ll cook it —? I said, ‘Oh no.’ I knew the group captain lived off the station. I said, ‘You have it sir.’ And the boys said, ‘You’ll get on. You’ll get on.’ And I reckon that’s how I might have got my bloody AFC [laughs]
JH: How you got your gong. Yeah. Well, what a change from operations.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Being up there.
BM: Yes.
JH: So, what happened to the rest of the crew Bill?
BM: Eh
JH: What happened to the rest of your crew?
BM: The rest of the crew. I kept in touch with the navigator. He got posted up instructing to Lossiemouth too. Lossiemouth there were three stations there. They had the main station and there were two satellite stations. I was in charge of one of the satellite stations.
JH: Yes.
BM: For a while.
JH: Yes.
BM: He was with the main station instructing other navigators.
JH: Yes.
BM: And by that time in England Gee, an operational aid had come into being.
JH: Yes.
BM: Which had more or less done away with the old plotting thing.
JH: Yes.
BM: Navigators could get a fix by operating a Gee set. Well, he was instructing on that.
JH: Yes. And was it Lancasters phasing in?
BM: No. No.
JH: And the Wellingtons phasing out at that stage?
BM: Still Wellingtons.
JH: Still Wellingtons.
BM: After they’d finished their training with us crews were posted down to England to a Conversion Unit.
JH: Conversion.
BM: On four engines.
JH: Yes.
BM: Where they spent about twelve hours I think.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And there they would pick up a mid-upper gunner and an engineer.
JH: Crew. A crew of seven. Yeah.
BM: Yeah. They had a four engine aircraft then.
JH: Yeah
BM: A four engine bomber. But with us they were still on twin engines. Which was a bit not the base.
JH: Yes. Yes. So that was, that was for you an enjoyable period.
BM: No. It wasn’t enjoyable.
JH: Or not. Or were you wanting to get back into action?
BM: It was really trying, instructing. You didn’t get a lot of sleep. You were either instructing or you were in charge of night flying. And I’ve got a good after dinner story when instructing the French. The early French were really magnificent pilots. They’d been in the French Air Force.
JH: Yes.
BM: One of them in particular had been flying with the French civil lines. And they at that stage had an airline over to, I think West Africa where they landed somewhere in mid-Atlantic. Well, one of the pilots they were training had been on that cross bloody Atlantic flight. But you couldn’t teach him anything of course. I was very —
JH: So he knew a bit about navigation obviously.
BM: I was very sort of hesitant about correcting him. He could have taught me a lot. I’m sure of that.
JH: Yeah.
BM: But the French crews. I remember the, there was an intelligence officer at every station.
JH: Yes.
BM: And there was a head of intelligence man. I suppose based at Edinburgh who would tour around visiting the stations and he came around to visit our stations. And French crews on the station would receive every couple of weeks a cask of wine sent up by General de Gaulle from London which could be issued gratis to the French aircrews. At any rate this head navigation intelligence man came visiting us and called in for lunch. And he was a First World War man. Allegedly related to the Queen. First World War medals. He liked his whisky which we gave him for lunch.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And the bloody French crews [unclear] insisted he have some French wine too. After dinner you went and got your own coffee at the coffee thing at the entrance and he was getting his cup of coffee and he tripped over and fell and sat on the coffee cup. And he had to have half a dozen stitches put in his backside
Other: Dear. Dinnertime.
BM: It’s time. I’d better not have dinner.
Other: You don’t want to go down for dinner?
BM: No. I won’t worry about it.
JH: Bill, we can, we can probably start winding it up a bit and if so you can have your dinner.
BM: Yes. Yes.
JH: Would you —
Other: You can have [unclear] as well I think.
BM: Give me five minutes.
Other: Ok darling.
BM: Can I have five minutes?
Other: Yeah darling.
JH: Yes. Ok.
Other: Sure.
JH: Yeah.
BM: This man’s interviewing me. How I won the war [laughs]
Other: Yeah darling. Yeah.
JH: Yeah. Yeah. But you read about the training squadrons. There were quite a few casualties.
BM: Yes. Yes.
JH: Did you have experience of that at Lossiemouth?
BM: Oh yeah. We had the, we had the odd crash.
JH: Yes.
BM: And we found in the, at the station there we were the people who found that something was happening with the Wellingtons. They were developing cracks in the main spar. And we had three mysterious crashes. Now remember I was the man who discovered one of the French aircrews who crashed when they, just after they left at night. They left the east coast of Scotland and disappeared. I found the crash the next day. Cracks developed in the main spar due to heavy landings. And they were all ex-operational aircraft which in avoiding fighters and anti-aircraft fire they’d far exceed authorised speed limits. Every aircraft had a mark on the altimeter not to exceed. Well —
JH: Yeah.
BM: You’d bloody well exceed that if you got into trouble
JH: Yeah.
BM: Instead going down at three hundred miles an hour they’d be going down at three fifty and that cracked the main spar.
JH: Yes.
BM: And they developed with heavy landings. And when the training crews were doing fighter affiliation you taught them to do very steep manoeuvres.
JH: Yes.
BM: To avoid fighters. You had an aircraft acting as a fighter chasing you. That was part of your training. And we had a couple of mysterious crashes. There was nothing left when they hit the ground. But one fell into the sea and they were able to get the wreckage.
JH: Yeah.
BM: And there they discovered the cracks. I think that was one of the main reasons —
JH: Yeah.
BM: That I got a bit of a notoriety through one of the people who was discovered this crack. They grounded the Wellingtons for two or three days and strengthened the main spars.
JH: That sounds like quite a breakthrough finding that problem.
BM: Yes. It was. Yes.
JH: No doubt saved no end of lives.
BM: That would have been the reason. Heavy landings by pupils.
JH: Yes.
BM: And giving them this manoeuvre. The corkscrew manoeuvre we taught them.
JH: Yes. Yes.
BM: But after that that more or less ended my career.
JH: Yes. So, just, just to finish off. What about you were there for VE day in the UK.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Then you went back to the bank?
BM: Yeah.
JH: Or did you continue with the air force after the war for a while.
BM: I continued for about six months.
JH: Yes.
BM: The bank had no staff.
JH: Yes.
BM: They all waited to be called up.
JH: Yes.
BM: As a result they didn’t get the — I got released straight away.
JH: Yes.
BM: Having joined early. But the bank staff — we had no bloody staff
JH: Yes.
BM: And I went. I was working all sorts of bloody hours.
JH: Yes.
BM: 10 o’clock at night. I was one of the few bloody staff in London office.
JH: My father, after the war left, left the RAF. In to Barclays working long hours like you did.
BM: Yes. Yes.
JH: But there were no staff.
BM: That’s right.
JH: Now, what about family? Family life.
BM: I married my wife halfway through the war.
JH: Yes. Yes.
BM: I didn’t shoot my line about how I got my DFC. In Edinburgh.
JH: Yes.
BM: I went along to get it at the Holyrood House.
JH: Yeah.
BM: The palace there, with the [pause] And when I went I asked the girl at the desk, ‘How do I get to the Palace?’ She said, ‘You can catch a tram.’ A tram or — I got a tram and the girl came up and said, ‘There’s the Palace sir.’ It was a picture show. That’s my afternoon story.
JH: Yes.
BM: How I got my medal.
JH: Ok.
BM: I went back to Holyrood and got my medal.
JH: Yes.
BM: And that was it.
JH: Yes. Yeah. So, so you continue with the bank.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Until you retired. Did you retire?
BM: Till I retired. I retired early.
JH: Yes.
BM: Banking never pleased me anymore.
JH: Yes. Yeah.
BM: I retired as soon as I could. Aged fifty five.
JH: Yeah. Now, you could have stayed in the UK but what brought you back here?
BM: I think mainly [pause] I don’t know really. I had to retire somewhere.
JH: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
BM: And this was one of the good places to retire.
JH: Yes. Yeah. Did you go back to New England or you came back to Sydney?
BM: I came back to Sydney.
JH: Yes. Yeah.
BM: And I went around. I finished up managing all of Sydney.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I retired from there more or less.
JH: Yes. Yeah. And I know you’ve kept in touch with veterans. You’re involved in the —
BM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
JH: Bomber Command Association and I saw you in London.
BM: Yeah.
JH: For the opening of the Memorial by the Queen.
BM: That’s right.
JH: That very hot day. You remember.
BM: Yeah. Yeah.
JH: And I’ve seen you at lots of functions.
BM: But I’m not a great medal man. I don’t believe in medals. I’ve got a couple of medals but I think I’ve always said people who got medals, should have got them are no longer with us.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I knew, during my training at Lossiemouth I knew there, fellow pilots, two VCs, very well.
JH: Yes.
BM: They went back on their second tour. Bazalgette and Palmer.
JH: Yes.
BM: Both won VCs. Posthumous of course.
JH: Yes. Yeah.
BM: But I, when I went to London for the 2012 thing I met Sir Peter Squire.
JH: Yes.
BM: I’ve got his picture over there.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Have a look at it. And that —
JH: Yeah.
BM: And that friend advising about the Legion d’honneur. I had a long talk with him when I met him at the meeting after the celebration for the monument thing. And someone wrote him a letter. I had a long talk to him. And I flattered myself he might have remembered me. I told a friend, they sent him a message I got a Legion d’Honneur and he wrote me a response. Have a look at his picture and the letter he wrote me over there.
JH: I’ll have a look afterwards.
BM: Yeah. Have a look.
JH: Yeah. Yeah.
BM: At any rate don’t mention my medals [laughs]
JH: Well, Bill —
BM: I told, I think I must have struck a sympathetic ear because he got the same medals as I have.
JH: Yes.
BM: And he got his through Falklands. His DFC. And I think he had a bit of, he thought a bloody World War Two bomber pilot was you know big time.
JH: Yes.
BM: I think he had a bit of an inferiority about his Falklands DFC.
JH: Yes.
BM: I don’t know. But I think that’s why we had a very very long talk.
JH: Yes.
BM: About — and he agreed with me about the medals.
JH: Yes.
BM: I said well I don’t know why they worried about it. I just went where I was told.
JH: Yeah.
BM: Nothing very special about it. We did what we had to do.
JH: Yes.
BM: But no reason to give us medals. And the fellas who should have got them of course got killed.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I don’t like capitalising on that.
JH: Yes.
BM: But at any rate see the letter he wrote me at the back.
JH: I’m going to have a look at that.
BM: I was quite, quite frazzled by it. Quite frazzled.
JH: Yes.
BM: And I think it might have been he might have remembered. I don’t know. But he would have met thousands of people.
JH: Bill —
BM: He was a very friendly gentleman.
JH: Yes.
BM: As I say we sort of had empathy together.
JH: I’ll have a look at that.
BM: Yeah.
JH: Bill, why don’t we wind it up. Thank you very much for the time and I feel really privileged to be the one interviewing you today. It’s a great story. It really is.
BM: Oh no.
JH: It is a good story. And so —
BM: Sheer luck.
JH: Thank you very much.
BM: Bomber Command was luck.
JH: Yes.
BM: I realised early on you were expendable. You realised that. After training you were very keen.
JH: Yes.
BM: Training you wanted to dash into it. When you got into it you realised you were bloody well expendable. You’ve only got someone to say, ‘There’s the target. Go for it.’ And you were gone.
JH: But your airspeed lesson. Dive bombing the church graveyard probably stood you in good stead.
BM: Training it did. You taught people that. Taught it.
JH: Thank you very much, Bill.
BM: Oh no. My pleasure. Sorry to have bored you.
JH: Not at all.
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Interview with Bill Macrae
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John Horsburgh
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2016-11-16
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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AMacraeWM161116
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Pending review
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01:26:12 audio recording
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eng
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Royal Air Force
British Army
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Bill McRae’s earliest memories were of the end of the First World War. He worked for a major bank during the Depression and was fortunate to be amongst a group of Australians who were sent to work in London. He volunteered at Australia House and was posted to the British Army for officer training during the summer of 1940. He later transferred to the RAF and after training as a pilot at RAF Cranwell was posted on to Malta and Cairo for the Middle East campaign. He later returned to the UK as an instructor at RAF Lossiemouth.
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Julie Williams
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Australia
New South Wales
Egypt
Egypt--Cairo
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Scotland--Lossiemouth
Greece
Greece--Crete
Libya
Libya--Tobruk
Italy
Italy--Sicily
Malta
North Africa
Temporal Coverage
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1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
148 Squadron
aircrew
crash
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
fear
Flying Training School
Gee
Initial Training Wing
Magister
Operational Training Unit
pilot
RAF Cranwell
RAF Harwell
RAF Lossiemouth
searchlight
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1062/11457/APayneJB150608.2.mp3
d15cef4ebe65bbad4bec4356ee9b1cbb
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Title
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Payne, Brian
John Brian Payne
J B Payne
Description
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An oral history interview with Brian Payne (b. 1932, 2530371, Royal Air Force). He served on Canberas 1951-1959.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-08
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Payne, JB
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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MH: Good morning to anybody that’s listening to the recording of this morning. I have the pleasure of interviewing Mr John Payne at his home address xxxx xxxx. The date today is Monday the 8th of June 2015. The time by my watch now is 11:41 and basically, I’ve got the purpose here to interview Mr Payne regarding reflections and memories of his time with the Royal Air Force, dating between 1951 and 1959. He will also be touching on a very interesting subject also about his father, who was potentially one of the first people to join the combined service back in 1918, in the formative year of the Royal Air Force having moved over from the Royal Flying Corps. There may be other points that Mr Payne wishes to touch on. I may or may not be taking notes during this and there may or may not be some direct questions at the end, but I’m now going to hand this recording over to Mr Payne and I’ll get him to run through his story.
JBP: My Christian name is Brian. This was the name of a close friend of my father’s, who was two years older than him. In 1916, he was called up in Bradford to join the Bradford pals, trained as an infantryman, went over to France in January of 1917 and was killed on the 22nd of February 1917, on the Ancre River, which is not far from Rheims. In 1940, things were looking difficult. The evacuation of Dunkirk was taking place, Hitler’s armed forces seemed to look unstoppable, we lost most of our equipment left in France. Churchill had just taken over and formed his first war cabinet and everything looked black, but as a seven year old boy, these things were not in my mind at all. One day, my father left his bureau open and I had a look inside, and I saw the usual kinds of things, and in one corner, there was a little portion set aside for technical notes. I didn’t know what they meant but what I did know was, that there were three photographs, and they were photographs of biplanes in front of a hangar. So that evening when dad came home, I said to him, ‘What are these photographs, Dad?’ And he said, ‘Well, when, in 1918 when the First World War ended, I was flying one of those aeroplanes and I was training to be pilot, but I didn’t finish my training because the armistice stopped all the flying so I never got my wings’. Well, as a little boy going to school with other little boys, this was a goldmine. This was a wonderful thing to find out. That my father had been a pilot in the Air Force, even if he didn’t go flying and dropping bombs and things on Germany. He was there, he did his bit, as far as he could and from then on, I dreamed of going into the Air Force and flying. I didn’t mind whether it was flying as a pilot or a navigator. I just wanted to be able to say, ‘I’m aircrew in the Air Force.’ Times passed. I got myself seven credits at school certificate, which was very unusual because mostly, I just worked for other people I enjoyed and looked forward to having as my teachers. And I got one A level. Not enough to go to university but plenty to go into the Air Force to fly, and I was called up as a national serviceman. Started off by going to Padgate and learned to dislike drill corporals who hazed us from day, dawn to dusk. 6 o’clock in the morning reveille till bed time, and got the uniformity that they wanted in terms of what we were wearing and how we cleaned equipment, and then off to a grey Hornchurch to be graded as a potential aircrew, and when I finished the grading, they said, ‘You’re a grade three pilot, but you’re a grade one navigator’. So I said, ‘I’d like to try being a pilot first’. So that October, I was sent up to RAF Digby, where they had Tiger Moths, and I had a marvellous time. The only snag is, the twelve hours that I flew, I always had an instructor with me. Never went solo. Never, never did landings on my own. And that really meant that I could only look forward to being a navigator, but I consoled myself that if I was a navigator, I might not kill myself as easily as if I was a pilot, and with that thought, I went on. Now, the Air Force was in a phase of expansion when I joined them but the majority of the aircraft were World War Two aircraft, propeller driven, and by that time the speed of aircraft meant that propellers couldn’t be used to power aeroplanes because they couldn’t go fast enough. They came up against a problem called the speed of sound, which didn’t do anything good for propellers, and jet engines were coming in, witness the Meteor and the Vampire, which were our front line defence but when it came to Korea, and the North Koreans invading the South Koreans then the, one of the few occasions when the United Nations Council sent troops somewhere to fight, and we were one of the sixteen nations that answered the call of the UN, sent people out to Korea, but of course, we found that the Koreans had jet aircraft from Russia, MIG15, and these MIG15s could play havoc with our slower piston engine aircraft, the bombers, and the fighters weren’t very good against them either, but I was going in on this wave of enthusiasm about the first jet bomber in the country, which was the Canberra. The B2 Canberra. Oh, and I did want to fly that aeroplane. I was hoping I could get on to that aeroplane, to fly a jet bomber. My father had been enrolled in the Air Force a fortnight after it became the RAF from being the RFC and the Royal Naval Air Service, so he started something new and here was I with a chance perhaps of flying in a Canberra. Well off we went for our training. They opened up some temporary camps. First at RAF Usworth near Newcastle, which was a dump. We were in wooden huts. Fortunately, it was February when we went there, when it was bitterly cold, and by the time we finished it was August and it was nice and warm, but we couldn’t get anywhere from the camp very easily, because the buses didn’t run very frequently to Sunderland or Newcastle, and certainly, there was no Sunday morning service to either place from Usworth, so we were out there, trapped on an airfield with nothing to do, but I passed that. Had some adventures, like a compass being wrong in the aircraft and me flying over cloud for an hour, an hour and a quarter and finding us miles away from where we should have been, because the compass was in error by five degrees, which is a lot of miles if you’re flying at two hundred miles an hour. From there, I went down to Lichfield, which again was another temporary, it was a wartime training base where they had Wellington B10s. My course went through successfully, most of them anyway, but a couple of, four of the lads were involved in crashes. The first was a Wellington that was doing a let- down, and the trainee navigator set the coordinates wrong for his Gee set. Instead of letting down to the airfield, he let down in the side of a hill, but they all three survived it because the pilot pulled the nose up as soon as he saw the hillside, and he kind of, was climbing, and the hillside was climbing a bit faster, so eventually, the hillside hit him underneath and he was going on alright until he hit a wall and then it broke into pieces. The other accident happened when they were in the circuit, coming in for final landing. The pilot made an error, the co-pilot was killed, one of the navigators was trapped in the wreckage and the pilot went off to find help and the other navigator stayed with his mate. The fog came down. It took them four hours to find the aircraft. Having got through that, we had a joyful occasion when I got my navigator’s brevvy, and I was confirmed as a pilot officer in the royal service, and incidentally, my initial commission as acting pilot officer was signed on the first day of the current Queens reign. What a long time ago that was. It’s like having a first, first cover stamp isn’t it? Well then, the moment of truth. Hardly anybody from our course at Lichfield went on to jets, just me and two others. We were told we were going to Bomber Command Bombing School at Lindholme, now notorious as a prison, where we did the practice with the Mark 14 bombsight that the Lancasters and Lincolns used, which was called the T2 bombsight for the Canberra. Unfortunately, the bombsight was only an area bombsight in the Second World War and they could have an accuracy of up to four hundred yards with the bombsight. In jet aircraft, the areas were even bigger. It was not a successful bombsight. The work hadn’t been done sufficiently in advance, but we were grappling with flying near the speed of sound at high altitudes, and the problem with the visual bombsight is, you couldn’t see the target when you want to release the bomb, because it was too far ahead to allow for forward propulsion, before the bomb eventually went down vertically, and our experience with a jet bomber dropping inert bombs, just cast metal with explosive inside and a fuse was never very successful. But the time came when we went to 231 Operational Conversion Unit at Bassingbourne, and this was the big time. I was very lucky because the first pilot that I crewed up with, with a Scottish navigator that we had under, Pilot Officer Ford was sent off one day to do circuits and bumps, part of his training before he could fly with his crew, and he took off and got lost and landed downwind at RAF Duxford, which was an inactive fighter station. We never saw him again. And then we got crewed up with a Flight Lieutenant John Garstin, and he was a major influence in my life. We flew together for two years. He was a career officer on a regular commission, destined to go a long way. He’d already served as a aide-de-camp to the governor of one of the Caribbean islands, and he’d instructed at the Initial Training Unit at RAF Cranwell, which is a prestigious post too, so he’d obviously destined for future roles. Anyway, I got him for two years flying in our Canberra which was Willie Howe 725. We got it brand new from the makers via RAF Binbrook where they fitted the particularly RAF equipment in to the aircraft and made it ready for operational use. As flight commanders Terry Geddoe was A Flight commander and John Garstin was B Flight commanders. Flight commanders had their own aircraft. Terry’s was 724 and ours was 725. 724 ended up in a fire dump and was written off, 725 ended up at RAF Duxford, now the Imperial War Museum, Duxford, where it stands as an example of the B2 bomber. The training was interesting but when we finished the course, I had done roughly two hundred and fifty six hours flying since joining the Air Force and there I was, a navigator observer, in the first jet bomber to be flown by the RAF and was I proud? My word I was. From Bassingbourne it wasn’t a long haul up to RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire. We got there on the 26th of May 1953. A date engraved in my mind because the first four crews to go to flying on 15 squadron in the Canberra era, or the Canberra chapter as well call it in the [pause], oh never mind. There were five squadrons building up their strength. There was 15, 10, 10, 10 squadron, 15 squadron, 44 squadron, 56 squadron and 149 squadron and we were all training to become operational in the first eighteen months of our stay at Coningsby, but in the following August, we were sent, we’d been there fifteen months or so, we were told we were going to go to Cottesmore, because they wanted to lay a three thousand yard runway at Coningsby for the V force when it finally arrived. So off we went to Cottesmore, which was a very happy time. Nine months there and off we went again. This time to RAF Honington, which had just had a three thousand yard runway installed for the V force, and there we stuck until the Canberra squadron was dissolved in 1957, but a lot went on before then. For example, the first serious detachment that we did from one of these bases, was from Honington to El Adem. This is in North Africa, near Tobruk famous for the battles between Bernard Montgomery and Rommel in the 1941 and ‘42 years of the Second World War. So it was exciting to go to such a historic place. We were there to fly a week’s intruder exercise over Greece, where they had the ancient Meteors and the ancient Vampires, so we had to fly at a low speed so they could catch us. We cruise normally at .72 Mach, but for those exercises, we had to cruise at .66/67 Mach so they could catch us, so that was quite fun. But I remember about that is the gritty wind, all day and all night - blowing, blowing, blowing - and as dusk fell, you could hear the explosions of mines that had been laid in the Second World War and not cleared, just lying there corroding. Expanding, contracting, expanding, contracting, until all of a sudden, they went off. We did make one visit, we went forty miles along the road from Tobruk, to a famous area where the forces really clashed. I can’t remember the name of the area but there was a peninsula, and on it was a German war memorial. We went up to this war memorial. Everybody started going quiet and whispering, and we looked at the ages of the people on this war memorial, and it was covered. All the granite was covered with names hundreds of young men, and I guess we all had the same thought. Eh up, this could be us. We were a very subdued bunch going back to the officer’s mess at El Adem that evening. When we got there, the local paper was in. They’d discovered the body of a Second World War soldier who’d died in 1942 in the Africa Korps and they found him, twenty yards off the main highway between Tobruk and Benghazi. Twenty yards, in a bit of a scrub, sitting behind a machine gun. Again, it brought it down to earth. And when we got back to England after our attachment, people were beginning to write about Suez and Egypt, and the possibility of confrontation, because Nasser, in July of ’56, nationalised the Suez Canal. Now it’s perfectly logical why he did it, which I can say now in hindsight, ‘cause I can’t remember very much about my attitude at the time except that, oh dear, this is what I got paid flying pay for. It started off with Nasser wanting to build the Aswan Dam. He wanted to build the Aswan Dam because he wanted to control the waters of the Nile, to make them more useful agriculturally, but also as a source of power to power electricity stations and improve the infrastructure. All very laudable, but for that he needed loans, and at the time that the Aswan Dam was starting, or was waiting looking for funds, first the Americans, then the British said, oh, we’ll lend you some money, but after that, Abdul Gamal Nasser made the mistake of buying his weapons of war from the Russians. Not from America and not from England, which upset the politicians. So they said, ‘Well, if we can’t have your orders for aircraft, you can’t have our, we’re going to nationalise the Suez canal, because if we can’t have your loans, we’ve got to pay for it somehow and we’re ongoing with the work’. Now, Anthony Eden had been one of the leading pacifists in the run up to the First World War, and had accompanied Baldwin when he went with that paper peace in our time. He was a sick man, but he wasn’t going to make the same mistake with a dictator again as he’d made with Herr Hitler, and he decided that the, the legal side of international lawyers should tell him whether the nationalisation of the canal was legal, and much to his chagrin, the lawyers said, providing he pays a reasonable compensation to the shareholders, he’s quite within his rights, and it’s quite legal for him to nationalise the Suez canal. This wasn’t what Anthony Eden wanted to hear, but Mr Anthony Eden decided that he was going to teach this fellow a lesson, and he thought of gunboats, which was his age, and he thought the Canberras would do the job. It just showed how little he knew. We knew what we were being prepared for. We were told not to talk to our wives and girlfriends, which we didn’t. We were confined to camp and it all got very tense. Then we were ordered out to Nicosia in Cyprus. At the time there was the EOKA shooting British officers in the back, so we didn’t fancy really, going to Nicosia but when we got there, we found we were alright, because they wouldn’t let us out of camp anyway. Every square foot of the airfield was occupied. There were no permanent accommodation for junior officers, they just slept in tents. The food, with all the people on board, was atrocious, and to cap it all, it was my twenty fourth birthday, and two days after my twenty fourth birthday, my pilot Dennis Wheatley and I were in the briefing room, preparing for our first raid over Egypt, because war had been declared. When they told us that, I just wanted to get on my own for a bit and think out what it could be like. It was a bit scary, but we’d been sent out there in our lovely Canberras. There’s only two problems. The first problem was, we had no way of navigating the aircraft accurately, because the system that was used over Europe was called the Gee system and this was two, two, a master station, two slave stations and they sent out signals. The master sent it out direct to the aircraft and sent one to the, same signals at the same time, and then the two slaves retransmitted the signal to the aircraft, so the aircraft had three readings, and from that, could fix their position by use of a special chart overprinted with Gee values, so we could look at the Oscilloscope and take the C readings and plot the aircraft’s, and that was how we were trained. But there was no Gee station over in Cyprus, nor could they build one in time, but we hadn’t any other aids. We hadn’t even got an astro compass or a bubble sextant. That didn’t do, that didn’t work very well in a fast flying aircraft anyway so we were without navigation aids. And the first raid we went on, was at Kibrit airfield, and we had, we couldn’t, the straightforward way, would have been go due south from Cyprus to the mouth of the Suez canal, go up the Suez canal, and bomb Kibrit airfield, but we thought that, or the powers that be thought, well even the Egyptians will have anti-aircraft gun going up the canal, so if we go up the canal, we’re liable to get shot at so we’d be clever, we’ll fly a series of three courses, and come around like a big question mark. Based on Cyprus, we went down the arm, then round, round, round and at the third turning point, the Valiants would come from Malta, and they would drop markers on the turning point, so we would know where to go to start our bombing run, and then some Canberras of 138 Squadron would mark the target with different target indicators so we’d know what to bomb. Well, nobody had thought that flying three legs without any nav aids is easy to do, because a slight mistake in terms of piloting the aircraft could put you miles off course. And so it was. When I came to the time when we should have been at the last turning point, there were no TI’s from the Vulcans that I could see. I couldn’t see anybody attacking any airfields within visual range of our aircraft. I’d not seen the canal, but it should stand out on a, on a dark night. In fact, there we were, with six one thousand pound armed bombs, going back to an airfield we didn’t know, very close to a large mountain. So Dennis said, ‘We’d better jettison our bombs’, so we went out to sea and dropped the bombs in the water, and hope nobody was swimming underneath. So ingloriously, we went back to base, not having even seen the target. The fact of the matter is, that until that flight, I’d never seen TI’s anyway, ‘cause they were economical during peacetime. They didn’t use everything there so TI’s didn’t get dropped. The next airfield to be attacked was Luxor, which is down to the south of Egypt, and the reason we were attacking Luxor was that Nasser had put his IL28 bombers, the Russian jet bombers, down there out of sight, he hoped. They lined them up on a runway and the air, the photo reconnaissance people saw the aircraft, so that was our target. So we were sent there, in the dark again, but that’s a maximum flight for a Canberra. We have one bombing run, one bombing run only. Well, after our first incident, we were very unhappy, me and Dennis, because we’d not even found the target. On this occasion, the TI’s were dropped and we saw them. A lovely sight. It was November the 5th again. But because of the limitations of our bombsight, built as it was during the war for Lancasters and Halifaxes and Stirlings, flying at two hundred knots, the maximum speed you could fly was three fifty knots, which was way below our maximum speed, and the maximum height you could bomb was twenty five thousand feet, because that was all, we liked to fly at forty thousand feet so going, flying over at high level, coming down to a bombing level, dropping the bomb then climbing up again. We did a cruise climb from the Luxor target, on the first occasion, to conserve fuel, it’s a way of flying a long way. We got to forty eight thousand feet and I have never been as cold as I was that day. Neither had Dennis. It was freezing at forty eight thousand feet, but we got back and joined the queue of aircraft waiting to land, but this time, we had dropped our bombs, and you know how big an airfield is. We missed it. So our bombs fell just outside the perimeter, as did a lot of bombs, but the interesting thing about the debriefing was, the intelligence officer debriefing us was trying to put our bomb burst closer to the target than we wanted to, and I said to him, I said, ‘Look’, I said, ‘I dropped the bloody bombs. I know where they went. You put them where I said, not on the runway, I didn’t hit the runway’. Well when we got back home, it was agreed that it had been a failure. It had been a complete waste of time sending the Canberras, because we didn’t have an accurate wind to put on the bombsight, we had blind navigation, just dead reckoning and that’s anybody’s guess, dead reckoning, so they sent us back the next day to the same airfield, but they had us take off half an hour earlier, so we’d have the last of the light to bomb by, which was intelligent, but didn’t help the results much because we still had no accurate wind over the bomb, over the airfield. Nobody transmitted one to us. So we’d flown all that way by dead reckoning and again, this time I could see the bombs drop, and they did drop inside the airfield, but they dropped on a place which was neither good nor useful. It didn’t disable the airfield and it didn’t disable the IL28s. As it happened, the following day, the French sent in a low level attack force and destroyed them all, but what a waste of time. And then the fourth raid I did, at Suez, was with our squadron commander, Squadron Leader Scott, and I was flying as nav plotter instead of single navigator, so the nav observer went down in the nose and he map read from the coast to the target, and from the target back to the coast, so I didn’t have anything to do except sit there and listen to the conversation, but the final attack was a place called El Marsa barracks, and by this stage, we were supporting the Army in, just out of Port Said. But the nice thing was that, a few days later, they sent us back home to England. That was, that was marvellous, that was the good news, because it got us into our own beds, and good meals and things like that, but they wouldn’t let us off camp. We were still restricted and we were told that although we’d come back in early November, that beginning of, end of December, we were going to go out to Malta, Exercise Goldflake was a kind of surveillance from Malta of the area when it had all calmed down and has a wing of Canberras out there, so we had another month to serve so it was coming up to three and a half months before we’d see our loved ones again [pause]. But when I started doing research on the internet, and the National Archives, it was interesting because so much was glossed over, but I understand that Sir Anthony Eden didn’t have a war cabinet for this particular operation, he just worked with one single senior civil servant, but the planning of the whole exercise made you feel that it was a kind of a mismatch. Senior officers were keeping their stiff upper lip type faces, but I think they were fuming inside because of the way that the arms had been used, or not used properly and all the embarrassing things that could be said, perhaps weren’t said by those in authority at the time [pause]. It was strange drawing up all of a sudden. I had a feeling of how people were when they were going to war, in a real war, not an adventure like this one, and I wrote a little song about it. Have you heard that song “Flying In a Jet Plane,” John Denver?
MH: Ahum
JBP: Well, just right on the top. I won’t, that’s it, that’s it. I won’t, I won’t, I’ll just say it to you rather than sing it. I can sing it but I’m all flat. This is, “Flying In a Jet plane” by me. I pay full tribute to, certainly to John Denver, because it was his thing that started it off -
All my kit is packed
I’m ready to go.
The moon is full, the coach is slow.
I’ve a three hour trip to base, my weekend’s done
Tomorrow is a flying day. I’m 536 we’re on our way.
Flying east, towards the rising sun.
So kiss me and smile for me.
Tell me that you’ll wait for me.
Hold me like you’ll never let me go,
Because I’m flying in a jet plane. I don’t know when I’ll be back again.
Oh Anne, I hate to go.
All leave is cancelled. Weekends too.
The future’s bleak, but I love you.
You fill my waking thoughts the livelong day.
Every place I go, I think of you.
In my sleep at night, I dream of you.
Pray for peace to hold. Not all outright war.
So kiss me and smile for me. Tell me that you’ll wait for me.
Hold me like you’ll never let me go.
‘Cause I’m flying in a jet plane. I don’t know when I’ll be back again.
Oh Anne, I hate to go.
The die is cast. Now the war’s begun.
We fly by night till the bombings done.
Then we fly back to England once again.
A month in Malta, for our crews,
Then we are told the welcome news, of leave for every other man.
So kiss me and smile for me.
Tell me that you’ll wait for me.
Hold me like you’ll never let me go.
‘Cause I’m working in a jet plane. Navigating back to you again.
Landing gently in your arms. Landing gently in your arms.
That’s my poem. A better singer than me can sing it to you [laughs]. Well we got back to England, after our stay in Malta, which was quite pleasant, it’s just that we weren’t seeing our girlfriends and wives, you know, but when we got back, we found that the Canberra squadron, 15 Squadron was being disbanded and this would take place on the 17th of April 1957. This would mean that the Canberras would all go back to the maintenance units and be handed out to other squadrons that were being formed. We’d be, we’d all go our different ways, but the squadron would reform with the Handley Page Victor in 1989, so it wasn’t going to be disbanded for very long, and it could become a Victor squadron, but I’d got to decide what to do. I went home for my first leave in February, and I discussed seriously with my father whether to resign my commission immediately and come out of the Air Force, but he said, ‘Don’t be so precipitous, it’s been a big shock and you are a Christian, but let’s look at the options’. So we went through the options. I didn’t want to fly in the V bombers, ‘cause I didn’t, I didn’t want to drop a hydrogen bomb or atom bomb on anybody and we eventually decided that the best use I could make of my time, would be a navigation instructor, so I went back to the squadron and discussed it with our friends, and the CO got me some forms to apply and I was taken in number 46 staff nav course, which was a course designed for two things. The first was to broaden your experience of the way that navigation was conducted in each of the commands flying, you know, Fighter, Bomber, Coastal and Transport Command. I think that’s all. If I’ve forgotten one, put it in, and the second purpose is to learn how to write staff papers and appreciations, which was very, very useful in my future life, as an insurance consultant. I enjoyed the course, I came out second, and then a guy called Polly Parrot, who was in the Air Ministry on his ground tour, he rang me up one day. He did junior officer postings. He said, ‘Brian’, he said, ‘I’ve got some good news for you. You’ve got a posting to 231 OCU at Bassingbourne. How does it feel?’ I said, ‘That’s great’. I said, ‘When are you getting out of your ground job?’ He said, ‘Oh next year. I’m coming out and I’m hoping to get on the V force’. I said, ‘I’ve got a girlfriend in Sheffield that I think I want to marry’. But I went off to OCU and I got some very good helping from the chief instructor, who took me under his wing and got me working properly. He gave me confidence, and then the Indian Air Force started coming through Bassingbourne, as part of a deal for them to buy our Canberras, we’d train their pilots, navigators, and I got friendly with a Flight Lieutenant Nath. I couldn’t pronounce his Christian name, so he said, ‘Oh call me Juggy’. So Juggy Nath he was and we got on like a house on fire. He came up one November the 5th to our home at Sheffield and met my parents, met my girlfriend, only she was close to being my fiancé then and my young brother who was setting off fireworks, and he really enjoyed himself, and then years later, I got a telephone call out of the blue and we were in here, about 1985, and he was flying with Indian Airways as a captain, and he’d just got married for the first time. He was in his fifties then, at fifty five then, a wing commander in the Indian Air Force he was, and he phoned on spec, and tried some Payne’s in the address book and got hold of me, so we were delighted, and he brought his wife up and came. The first time he was up, he talked to my parents and enjoyed that, so he talked in the evening to my parents. A thoroughly wonderful occasion. Doing research for this about eighteen months ago, discovered that a Wing Commander Nath, N A T H, was the most decorated Indian Air Force pilot in the history of the Indian Air Force, and my friend Juggy, who was a bit of a playboy. He didn’t like flying desks, he loved flying. He loved anything to do with sport. Very keen sportsman and good fun as well. And then the following, I’d been at Bassingbourne six months and just settled in nicely, I made the one major mistake of my career. Polly Parrot rang up and said, ‘I need a station navigation officer at RAF Finningley’, which is very close to Sheffield. ‘Are you interested?’ Of course I was interested. Oh great. So I went up there and the, not that the group captain I didn’t know, but the wing commander was a navigator in charge of the operations room, and he was security cleared to deal with V bomber crews and his deputy, Pete Harle, squadron leader, he was an H bomb specialist and he was cleared to work with these crews, but I’m a flight lieutenant, station navigation officer, the squadron’s navigation officers outranked me. I was only a flight lieutenant, they were squadron leaders. Wing Commander Dawson kept all the interesting stuff about navigation so I began to wonder why I was there, ‘cause I’d got nothing to do. Nothing to do. No security clearance to help with the V bombers or anything in any shape or form. I once tried marking the log, a chap on the squadrons, and the wing commander came and tore me off a strip, the group captain, no, the squadron leader on the squadron, ‘You shouldn’t be marking my men. Give over’. And then they made the post a squadron leader post. Well, two months before, the corporal in charge of the map store had left after doing two years national service, and the only job I could see I could do was the map store CO. So I was flight lieutenant in charge of the map store for the last four months of my service and then came out in civilian life, where I had a totally different career and married Anne. And that’s the story of my life in the Air fFrce. I rest my case.
MH: You’ve had quite an extended career there. Well, extended in what you’ve done but squeezed into a short period of time with the RAF. I’ll go back, take you all the way back if I may to your father, and what his experience was and the way that, did he infer on you any, any, the way that he was trained or was that something you found out afterwards from him? Did he give you any stories regarding his training in the early, early years of the RAF?
JBP: The most infuriating part about it is, that my father had one photograph of three trainees on his course at Old Sarum airfield, but he’d sent home many letters and many photographs to his parents, and they hadn’t kept any of them. We have one letter dated the 1st, the 2nd of January 1919 when he’s trying to impress his mother by what he’s doing, and he calls himself the second in command of the navigation empire. He says, ‘It’s the officer here’, and he says, ‘ and I’m there to do the odd jobs that need doing when he’s making a presentation, but as we’re not doing presentations at the moment, you can see I’ve not much to do, but we discovered the other day that the coke burning stove in the hut causes an upward draft. We had a brilliant idea that we would make hot air balloons and fly them, but they didn’t work so we made a windmill, and the windmill went round on the current so we painted it in RAF colours and had it suspended, so that it would go around all the time. If brass hats came in we would just say we’re checking that the draft, that the stove doesn’t need filling up at all’, and he went on like this, pulling his mother’s leg and, ‘Look at the headed notepaper’. Old Sarum. It’s embossed, not just your printed stuff, yeah. Because my grandmother was a bit of a social climber. Victorian governess type. No, the research I’d done about my father’s training and the training of pilots in the First World War threw up some very startling facts. Fourteen thousand four hundred aircrew were killed in the First World War. Eight thousand of those aircrew were killed in training accidents before they ever got to the front. In other words, our training system killed more of our aviators than the enemy. After the war, when they looked at the records, the German Air Force had twenty five percent of the casualties as the British Air Force up to 1917. It’s shocking. Ok, it was a new world, aviation. The Germans and the French were the major aviators before the First World War. Our generals were, they could only see as far as the cavalry, and they didn’t show any enthusiasm for anything to do with flying. They found out very quickly in the First World War that flying was very important, because the French and the Germans had them, and the English didn’t, so until they got themselves sorted out, which took a year or so, they were under represented and the reconnaissance done by the British was good. It convinced the commanders in the field that they were worth having. Particularly when they had these big pushes like the Somme, and then the pilots had to fly contact patrols, otherwise they had to keep in contact with the front line to be able to see how close the Germans were and whether they could machine gun them out of their positions, but of course, when you’re flying that close to the front line and somebody’s lobbing shells from your side and from their side, the chances of a shell hitting you is not remote so many of the aviators killed. The figures don’t match up to the Army, but then the number of flyers engaged compared with the number of the Army soldiers engaged was quite different as well, but the losses were very high. And the training of aircrew was a problem, because when the war started, we only had, I think it was a hundred and eighty qualified pilots in the whole of Britain, and training was hit and miss. It started off with, in about 1909 that if you wanted to learn how to be a pilot, you got on to this kind of flimsy box kite thing. There was one seat and that was for the pilot. So, the pilot would sit on the seat with the controls in front of him. No dual controls, just one set of controls. Then the trainee would get in through the barrage of spars and things that are holding the aircraft together, and he would be invited to sit behind the pilot so his knees were touching the pilot’s sides and his hands were touching his shoulders, and then to feel the movements the pilot was making, and then the pilot, the instructor, would get out and say, ‘Now you try. I don’t want you to make any turns. Just go up forwards and down forwards’, and it’s surprising how many people crashed like that. You see, the engines of the aircraft weren’t powerful enough. They just take the aircraft up off the ground, but the flying speed forwards and the stalling speeds when they dropped out of the ground were probably three or four miles an hour different, and they didn’t have a kind of speedo to see how fast they were flying. They had very primitive instruments. Couldn’t fly in a wind over five miles an hour ‘cause they’d go backwards. It slowly improved but we were totally reliant on the French. We had to buy, for the bulk of the war, we bought French engines, French aircraft until we started developing our own in 1915 but the war had been going on a year then and it was a very slow progress, and there were great periods when the Germans had the upper, they had the control over the air over the front lines and that was horrible for the soldiers, and they, they found a way of firing through the propeller. That was the big thing. So you aimed the aircraft and fire through the propeller and shoot down the enemy aircraft. And the Germans had an aircraft which wasn’t very successful but it was a good gun platform, and it was called an Eindecker, and these Eindeckers used to go up and our pilots didn’t think they could shoot at anybody, you know, nobody couldn’t shoot anybody down, certainly not through the propeller, and then the Eindecker got into the position where it could shoot the British aircraft down and shot them down in droves. We eventually found an aircraft that could fight the Eindecker. It had three guns facing forwards, called a Pusher biplane, and it had three, three guns facing forwards but the observer had to take great risks with his own life to fire one of the guns, ‘cause he had to balance on the edge of the cockpit to stand up to this gun to fire at the back of the aircraft and there were no training manuals. People were posted to be instructors like the Army does, you know. ‘Right boy, you’re not volunteering but you’ll be an instructor now. You’re now posted as an instructor to ‘blah blah blah’. Go and instruct’. You don’t tell them how. So that you’d think you had just come out of flying training. Hopefully, he had a good pilot to instruct him but many of them weren’t. A lot of the pilots came out of the front line with shattered nerves. Do I fly at all? So when they were made into instructors, unfortunately they used to send people off far too early in their training, so many of them got killed because they shouldn’t have been flying alone, but one of the, the reason was that the instructor was trying to avoid flying, and then you got pilots sent back from the front who were a threat to the squadron if they were going out on a reconnaissance, and they got sent back and made into instructors. In fact, they’d make anyone into instructors if they could, and the instructors privately called their pupils Huns, because they were as liable to kill them as much as the Germans. And then, in 1917, a chap who’d been in the, been flying as a pilot and then as a squadron commander, he went to Trenchard and said, ‘I think we can organise flying training so it’s more useful’. The kind of flying training that we were giving to people was basic training, but it had nothing to do with flying in war. So, we didn’t teach people manoeuvres that are dangerous. Many of the instructors wouldn’t know how to do it anyway. The ones who were straight to instructing from training school and this chap had the novel idea of training people to fly and fight at the same time, so all the training was to do that, if there were any risky manoeuvres, then people had to go through these over again and again with the instructor until he had mastered it, because shying away from not mastering something wasn’t on. And fortunately, he’d been in the post a year at Gosport when my father joined the Air Force, and by that time it was organised along the lines that he pioneered. Great man. So my father got proper training. The aircraft were equipped with dual controls. They had a tube that they could blow the whistle by the other pilot’s ear and you could talk through the tube, and that was called a Gosport Tube, and altogether more time was given to training people before they were sent out, because in periods when the Germans had the control of the skies, they were shooting down our aircraft and we were losing pilots like mad, so the front line commanders were asking for more pilots and the training programme couldn’t produce them, and it wasn’t until 1917 that Trenchard wrote a letter, which Haig signed, sent to the cabinet, war cabinet and they increased the aircraft squadrons from forty to a hundred, and specialist units were created. But a lot of the pilots, a lot of the instructors, had to be trained to instruct in this new way. So you started by training, nobody had been training instructors to instruct until that point, and everything happened in the final year, and I was glad that my father went into the Air Force when he did, ‘cause if he hadn’t have done I might not be here. That’s a long answer to a short question.
MH: What did your father do when he came out of the RAF?
JBP: Well the first thing he did was to be diagnosed with tuberculosis in his left leg, and he required six months treatment for that, and fortunately they were able to cure it but he always had a weakness in his left leg. Then he had another eighteen months looking for a job because, when he went, went in the Air Force, he’d been apprenticed to be an engineer, engineering draughtsman but he’d not finished his course, so he applied for something like that, but he’d not finished and other people had and they got the job. But eventually, in 1921, he got a job and he worked for the same firm from the age of twenty one to the age of seventy four. Same firm. It changed ownership three times. Each time the business was failing and somebody bought it out, but it was a good record. He saw good times and bad times. One of the good times was, he went with a friend, Jack Webster, on holiday at Towyn in Wales, and Jack had married a girl called Mary Haye, who was the elder sister of Florence Haye who was a zoology and botany graduate from the Liverpool University, and she was the only female taking that degree, all the rest were fellas. So she was kind of in advance of her time but she’d not had a boyfriend even though she was twenty six by now, because if you got married between the wars, you had to give up teaching and she liked teaching so she gave up men, until she met my father and they got married in 1929, but there were one or two moments. Mother’s family was a working class family. Did all the shopping, Gibbet Street in Halifax, and Florence’s dad who was a thimble maker by trade, but it was mechanised in the war years so they weren’t made by hand any more so he was unemployed at the end of the war, and had a very rich great uncle called Uncle Joe Allen and he had a posh house at Maidenhead, and he had the franchise for importing into Africa the products of a certain Mr Ford for the whole of Africa, and he gave my grandfather a job in the Gold Coast, Lagos, importing Ford vehicles, and my granddad told us of an occasion when the local chieftain decided he wanted a Ford car so he went along and explained it all to him, and couldn’t help noticing that the chief was looking very disappointed and very upset. So he asked him what the matter was and he said, ‘Well you sent me a picture of this car and where’s the lady that goes with it?’[laughs] Anyway, the Haye family didn’t drive cars at all so my mother was out with my father in his Austin 7 and they were having a row as they were driving along. She didn’t, not knowing what she was doing, she switched off the ignition. The only time he hit her.
[Ringtone tune. Reminder for medication]
JBP: My pills. I hope they appreciate the nice music [pause]. There was a pause while he took his pills.
MH: Yeah. Yeah.
JBP: Who has not put his pills out this morning?
MH: What we’ll do is, we’ll temporary pause the interview at this time so Mr Payne can have his pills because they’re more important to be honest. So we’ll pause this for a second.
[machine paused]
MH: Welcome back, this is a continuation of the interview with Mr Payne. The time now is 13:04. Mr Payne had some medication to take so we decided to pause at that time to give him due time to do that and he’s happy to continue, which I’m very grateful to him for. We were just finding out about your father and what he had done after his days with the newly combined Royal Naval Air Service and Royal Flying Corps, a bit about his training that he’d done and then subsequent to that that he’d stayed with the same company for a phenomenal amount of time. What was it that he was doing for that company?
JBP: He was an engineering draughtsman, which was what he was being trained for, been training, but he was joining a company called Hall and Sons in Rotherham who were struggling with the changing conditions in industry and commerce, because it was about that time that the big recession started in about 1925 or so and they were having to multitask, so my father found himself the only draughtsman but also expected to go out and make calls on people as a salesman, but in doing that he found he’d got a capacity for being a salesman and by the time the company, Hall’s, was sold to British Automatic Refrigerators Limited, my father was a full time salesman in Bradford for them, and as the recession deepened, so he had to give up his car, and he was walking around selling freezer units to butchers because they had to install freezer equipment in their shops in order to keep the meat fresh. About 1932, 1929 they got married, in 1930, my mother gave birth to a still born child at six months, simply because of an infection she caught, and in 1932 I came along and brightened their lives and my father sent a card to my mother a month before I was born, ‘Whoops mum, soon be hitting the high spots with you. John Payne’, with a little ditty on the back of it as well. He’d got a nice quiet sense of humour. My mother was one of six girls and they all liked Raymond, as he was called, and he got on well with his mother-in-law as well. In fact, he got on with most people, he was very even tempered. He’d got a nice sense of humour and was very reliable. Everybody found him very reliable which was one of the reasons for his success as a salesman because as I found it certain, if you were honest with people, it’s very highly valued and so it should be.
MH: So you come along in 1932.
JBP: Yeah. My sister Anne came along in 1935. my sister Margaret in ’38, but my brother Robert decided to wait out the festivities of the war and came along when peace was declared. The only trouble was that my mother, who had gone back to teaching during the war as her war work on the Monday, she had an interview with the headmaster who said, ‘I’m delighted to tell you, Mrs Payne, that the teacher who went to the war from here, the biology teacher, is not coming back to Sheffield, so you can work full time at the job you love’. She was very pleased, went out and rang my father to tell him the news, went to the doctor’s on Friday and guess what. ‘We’ve done some tests Mrs Payne, and you’re having a baby in August’. So she, you know, she’d done her bit and my father called the baby ARP, because he didn’t taken any air raid precautions. So he was called Anthony Robert Payne [laughs]. Now Robert was a common name in the family, Robert. But like my father, another thing about my father, he couldn’t go into military service because of his deafness and his TB hip so he joined the air raid wardens, known as the ARP, and he went to the first meeting with the group. What do we call you? Now my dad hated Raymond, because it was a family name, and he hated Henry which was his other name, so he says, ‘Call me George’, so ever after, whenever it suited dad, ‘Hello George,’ we knew he was an air raid warden in the war. He also, not a religious man but a very, very sincere Christian. In the time when the evacuation of Dunkirk was taking place, he was in hospital having been diagnosed with having gallstones, and in those days, it meant an operation and the aftercare was botched and he got an abscess on his wound, and the surgeon came in and told mum and dad that if it burst inwards, that was it. End of story. If it burst outwards, there was a good chance of recovery, so they had three weeks with this hanging over their head, and dad, being a regular church goer anyway, he and mum were praying about it, and so was the extended family on both sides, and one day dad was by himself in the, in his cubicle in the ward and he had a sense of a presence with him, and he got the sense of words kind of appearing in his mind, ‘You’re going to be alright. Don’t worry’. And he didn’t, but the impact it had on him afterwards, he started regular bible study, he became a preacher in the Plymouth Brethren, and he was a very popular preacher. He did an awful lot of appointments by request. Took a number of weddings in their tradition and funerals. He preferred the weddings. They had adult baptisms, you had to be converted and then baptised, so as a sixteen year old, I had to get into this water with this old man. The only consolation was the girls had to do that and they looked lovely with their dresses clinging to them [laughs]. But he used to bring people home from the morning service, and he’d bring people home who were on their own and he called the lame ducks. And my mother had a spell in a psychiatric hospital in her fifties and she went to Middlewood, and she met a couple of ladies there and there were nothing wrong with them. They’d just been put in a mental hospital and left and become institutionalised. So my mum, when she got discharged from hospital, she said to the psychiatrist, would it be possible to take these two ladies out occasionally. Just they seem very subdued. So he said yeah, and later, about four months later, he said, ‘Mrs Payne you’ve made a tremendous difference to these ladies. They’re coming alive’, and mother always said, they kept coming to her house till they died, but she said isn’t it awful that people can be locked away in our civilised society and, of course, after that the legislation they brought in to close mental hospitals, because so many people were put in there, you know, put in there for having a baby out of wedlock, or because their father was wealthy and didn’t want them around. Shocking it was. So he really lived out his life of faith and I wouldn’t say there were any of us who are as good as he was. I’d like to be but I wouldn’t, I’m not.
MH: Did he, or did he carry on any sort of passion towards flying? Did he fly much after?
JBP: On the -
MH: Did he have the opportunity to?
JBP: On his eightieth birthday I took him down to Old Sarum airfield where the Shuttleworth Collection is based. Have you heard of them? Of course you have, yeah. And they were flying the Avro 504K which was the training aircraft he used, and I took him down there because that was the day when the flying displays were being done by the Avro, and he really liked that. And then we saw an oil painting in the shop, and I bought it, and he had it in his bedroom till he died and then it went to my grandson, who has got it over his bed now. So the link’s being continued although Nicholas has just got a degree in geology, so I can’t see him going to fly.
MH: But your passion came alive when you went into your father’s bureau.
JBP: Yeah.
MH: It touched you then.
JBP: That’s right.
MH: The bug, as such. As some people call it.
JBP: Yeah.
MH: From a photograph.
JBP: We all get touched by bugs, don’t we?
MH: We do.
JBP: Passion.
MH: Passions.
JBP: Passion. Yes.
MH: But your passion, then, continued through.
JBP: Yes. I didn’t, my long term aim was to fly. I tell you what were a hell of a culture shock and that was going on my honeymoon. Not, not the interesting bit, but the first time that Anne had flown, and we were taking off at three in the morning, in the pitch dark, and we came across the Mediterranean coast on our way to Rome. at first light, and that was magic. The only thing that wasn’t magic was buying some bloody tickets when I’d been paid for flying [unclear]. I did feel that. [laughs]
MH: So you joined the RAF in ‘51.
JBP: Yeah. National serviceman. The number of 2530371, and I was an aircrew Cadet.
MH: Just to make sure that I’ve written that, 2530371.
JBP: Yes.
MH: And that service number made -
JBP: National service number.
MH: National service.
JBP: The regulars were 414, first three letters.
MH: Ok. Did that then go, that also then picked up your national service number or did it become completely different? Your regular service number.
JBP: No. I kept the national service number.
MH: But it had a prefix then of 414.
JBP: No 414 was the one that was issued at Padgate.
MH: Ok.
JBP: Other access camps might have had different numbers, I don’t know, I only know Padgate. I was a national service man until the 14th of November 1951 when I applied for a permanent commission, a four year commission with four years on the reserve, which I extended when the direct commission system came in which, I think, they extended to a twelve year commission with an option of coming out after eight years. I went on to the direct commission before Suez and I took the four, the eight year option after Suez.
MH: What recollections, or what impressions when you were at RAF Digby learning first, learning first how to fly on Tiger Moths?
JBP: Oh, that was magic. Without a doubt the best flights I ever did, even though I was a Canberra navigator, the most exciting flights were Tiger Moth flights. There was the Chipmunk came in to replace the Tiger Moth. I used to love flying the Chipmunk, but flying in an open cockpit is something, something else. Something completely wonderful. And you can do so much over a small area because you’re flying quite slow relative to jets. You can hover almost. You can keep inside the airfield perimeter and just do your -
MH: Yeah.
JBP: Your stuff. I liked everything about the Air Force till Suez.
MH: Suez was the turning point.
JBP: Yeah [pause]. It was the start of this book I suppose. If I go back I could, I could tenuously link it to get it out of my system. By the time it was happening I wanted to go, and if we’re going to, I didn’t want the war to start. I wanted it to be done diplomatically like I said in the song, but I was quite committed to go into action if necessary. I wasn’t suddenly questioning whether I should go or not. My attitude was, well I’ve been paid flying pay for five years, they’re entitled to my service up front, and once it started, you just wanted to get it finished as soon as possible [laughs]. But I think there is a report on the bombing. I’ve been trying to get to the National Archives, I’ve been trying to get a report on the, there was a survey done of the bombing results on the airfields, and I’ve read fragments of other people’s books on the subject, which makes me believe that this does exist, but I couldn’t find a way of getting to it ‘cause I’m not very good at those websites. I’m sure there was a report done and they took nine major airfields and we didn’t close one of them. In all the bombs, we dropped and we didn’t close one of them. An enormous number of bombs and a lot of them dropped outside the airfield perimeter and that’s the shocking thing.
MH: You can reflect in some ways looking back just over a decade back to when Bomber Command first started out. The bombing missions to Germany and such like.
JBP: Yes.
MH: The accuracy there that was portrayed.
JBP: In 1941 a report came out and it showed that aircraft bombing with direct reckoning and star sights, which were the only two things they had at night, nine out of ten bombs dropped were more than five miles away from their target. Only one bomb out of ten was within five miles of the target and these were five hundred pound bombs. They weren’t a thousand pounders. And the area of devastation was only about a hundred yards. So the safest place to be was the target.
MH: Yeah. It’s strange to think of it like that, but that is, that’s a correct statement.
JBP: Yeah.
MH: Yeah. But it’s interesting, though, that, as you said in part one, that the bombsight that was used by the World War Two Bomber Command bomb aimers was the same then, just over a decade later, in the jet era, in the Canberra.
JBP: Yeah. And the forces against, the forces acting on the bomb and on the aircraft had greater, one of the examples is astral, astral navigation, using the stars. Now it all started with ships at ground level or at sea level, and bringing down the star sight on to the horizon to get the elevation of the star, to then be able to draw a great circle line, which on a short distance is a straight line to get a fix but you don’t have an actual horizon in an aircraft so you’ve got to put something in, so they found with low speeds, you could put a bubble in, and the bubble is acted on by the forces of gravity and where as a sea, seafarers could take two or three sights and that would be enough, we used the bubble sextant we had to take sixty sights, all automatic and they averaged out sixty sights of this star and then you got on the tables, and plotted this on your chart and you looked for three stars so that they crossed at a hundred and twenty degrees, a hundred and twenty degrees, a hundred and twenty degrees and your probable position was inside this ‘cocked hat’ as they called it. I was taught that in basic air navigation training. I used it once when I was at Lichfield on a night exercise, and I used it once on the staff navigator’s course when we were looking at Coastal Command and Transport Command and the way they navigated. Never used it otherwise. And I went to, from St Mawgan to Gibraltar on a staff nav course and I was navigating by lines of pressure, with the aircraft being steered by the gyro not a compass. I tried to understand that because I’ve got the notes down there and I tried to understand it now, and at eighty three, I just can’t understand it [laughs], at twenty four I was navigating by it and got there. Yes. The equipment lagged way behind the aircraft. That was the problem we had, we always had. Nowadays, the way they take modern star sights I’ve not been trained so I don’t know them, but the early ‘50s was, 1952 was the biggest size of the Air Force in war or in peace. That was the most resources there but a lot of those the jet engines made everything redundant, and we had a lot of other aircraft.
MH: It’s my understanding that, yeah, because I think Bomber Command still had things like the, well the Americans called the Superfortress, but we called it the Washington.
JBP: Yeah. That’s right.
MH: Which was still around -
JBP: Well 15 Squadron had Washingtons before it had Canberras.
MH: So, I mean, if you think of the size of the Superfortress, you know, the Washington compared with the Canberra, quite a fundamental change.
JBP: It is.
MH: In aircraft type, etcetera.
JBP: And when the yfirst displayed at Farnborough by Beamont, on behalf of English Electric, the way that he flew it was like a fighter, and some old fuddy duddies in the air ministry said, ‘You don’t fly a bomber like that. It’s a light bomber not a heavy bomber’, and of course, the heavy bombers did spectacularly well. The Vulcan, the Valiant and the Victor. They really were agile aircraft, but when you got to those speeds, the G forces that you can vector a G force into the horizontal and vertical. The G forces were far greater on equipment in the aircraft, and the T2 bombsight we used in the Canberra was a modification of the Mark 14, which as you rightly said was designed and built in 1940, after the Bomber Command said you don’t want to lose any more crews, but if you wanted an accurate bombsight, you had to fly straight and level for so long and you can get shot down while you’re doing it. You go for a bit of evasion and then you accept an average error of four hundred yards, so what blanket bombing was, was seeking to knock out the factories, seeking to kill the workers who worked in those factories, because they were in the zone. Just pass the zone with enough bombers to allow for breakages on the way there and a certain number of bombs, the probability is, you covered every point of the carpet, but you kill civilians and that was a deliberate policy before Bomber Harris took charge of Bomber Command. He just carried it out. He gets blamed for it but it was Churchill that was the prime instigator.
MH: I’ll step you back in time if I may.
JBP: Yeah.
MH: Back to your favourite aircraft being the Canberra. Could you take me through, or take the people that are going to listen to this later on, through right the way from mission start to mission end? What would have been your role and what you did, what you wore, because I remember you saying when you got up to a very high level of forty eight thousand feet, you found yourself very cold.
JBP: Yeah.
MH: And reflecting upon that bombers during the World War Two, of course, had problems with freezing guns and that sort of thing, that they couldn’t then operate to defend themselves, so it’s the similar sort of scenario there, with the freezing element.
JBP: Yeah.
MH: But then the crews in World War Two, of course, wore the sheepskin clothing, etcetera, that was designed to keep them warm and the leather helmet, etcetera. If you could take us through what your, how you, your day would have gone from mission start to mission end.
JBP: Right. Yes, I can do that. I’ll think of a particular mission. I was flying an exercise, a Bomber Command exercise, testing out capabilities of ships at sea and aircraft finding them. I’m stationed at Honington, near Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk, a member of 15 Squadron. My pilot is Flight Lieutenant John Garstin. The nav plotter is Flying Officer Jock Logan and the navigator observer is myself [pause]. We have a meal and then we’re taken by RAF vehicle lorry or bus or Land Rover to the briefing room, collecting on our way, the parachutes which are the type which you sit on [pause]. We go to the, entering the briefing room we go to get our equipment out of the store, which is where we keep it. The first thing that I put on is some thermal underpants, stretching down to just below my knee and a thermal top. The next item of clothing I put on, if its winter, it’s a woollen cover for the body and the arms. If it’s summer, probably nothing particularly special. A thick pair of socks, because it’s amazing how cold you get in your feet and extremities, so you need a thick pair of socks, woolly socks and flying boots which are designed so that if you get shot down over enemy territory you can cut off the, the bit of a boot that looks like a flying boot and you’re left with a pair of reasonably serviceable shoes, which look a bit like shoes for escape and evasion. Having got yourself dressed in that gear, you then put on your flying overall. In my day they weren’t the colours they are today, it was a kind of grey blue with the squadron badge on the pocket and the rank on the shoulders, on little bits of material that can be slid on and off and used elsewhere. The next item of clothing is a pressure vest. Now a pressure vest, the function of the pressure vest is if the, what do they call it, we were pressurised down to a certain level for operational work. If we were flying at forty thousand feet, then the cabin pressure is pressurised to make the inside of the cabin twenty five thousand feet, so flying at twenty five thousand feet, if you’ve got an explosive decompression at that artificial height, you quickly go to forty thousand and this is where the pressure vest kicks in. The moment there’s any change of pressure, the pressure vest inflates and the inflation is to guard against damage being done to your breathing. It’s connected up with the oxygen system which is fed to you under pressure anyway, and there’s a clip on here, the oxygen mask attaches it to there, attaches to your helmet. Your helmet, strangely enough is not made of thick material, it’s made of a cotton. It’s washable cotton with the earpieces in and the, the nose I say, the nose of the thing fitting over you like that. You couldn’t operate at high levels without oxygen. You’re flying at forty thousand feet, there’s no way you can do without your oxygen. You’ve got to be taking your oxygen in otherwise you will start hallucinating, and as an observer, I had a little bottle of oxygen for when I went forward to the nose, or came back from the nose, I wasn’t on the mains supply system I had my own bottle, so I had to make sure I got that. Over the pressure vest I’d got what is popularly known as the Mae West, which is the bright yellow jacket with inflatable front like the famous actress. When you’re flying, you fly encased in your pressure vest, and on top of the pressure vest, no, your flying suit is underneath your pressure vest. That’s right. Switch on to the oxygen. I’ve got to look at the bomb bay and check that the bombs that we are going to drop are the ones that have been specified at the briefing, and I check that any settings that have to be made before take-off are made. I can set the bomb pattern inside the aircraft. It’s next to where I sit. It’s just here. And if you’re down in the nose, and you’ve got to suddenly set a pattern to come back, crawl back, set it, crawl forward. In other words, the aircraft was very cluttered as you saw. Because of the extra navigator and the extra bank seat on the original plans, all the space that would be available to a single nav isn’t available, because that’s put aside for the observer, and because of the observer the pilot seat instead of being centred under that plastic dome is to one side, so tall pilots kind of get a bit bent. They’re flying this way and this is crushing their head over like that, and they often have a bone dome on up on their helmet, so that the result is flying like that and not being able to see very well that way, and you can’t see behind anyway. No mirrors. There should have been a radar called yellow putter, but yellow putter proved to be unworkable in anything like operational conditions. It just didn’t work, so they scrapped it. We never had it on my squadron. We weren’t experimental, we were just routine main force. Dogsbodies. Having got all our equipment and our helmets, making sure that we have the right oxygen mask because we fly T2 bombers, we fly T4 dual control training aircraft and they provide one T4 training aircraft per squadron, so that we always have something to do CO’s checks and things like that in. But when you fly in the T4, you don’t have a pressure vest ‘cause the aircraft doesn’t go to that height. It only goes to twenty five thousand. You don’t do long trips so there’s only room for one navigator, because the two pilots have to have got to have bank seats. You’re mainly flying local simulations so you don’t have wing tip tanks, so you can do high speed runs in one of those, which is rather fun. Go to maximum four hundred and fifty knots, liked doing those, and occasionally we’d do full load take off, when we’d put six one thousand pound bombs on board and the pilot could feel the change in the trim, both taking off and landing. That was important that we did those regularly, ‘cause you’d be flying with twenty five pound practice bombs, they don’t make much difference to the handling of the aircraft, but six thousand pounds of bombs makes a big difference. You don’t do fancy aerobatics with six thousand pounds bombs on either. We then go into briefing. The briefing would be in terms of first of all, telling us what our target is and how we are to approach the target, what formation we are going to fly, the turning points and the times we’ve got to be at the various turning points. The emergency alternatives to our own airfield if we come back and we’re clamped up with fog or things like that. They would tell us where the enemy, for the purpose of the exercise, where the enemy are. That’s reported. Where they were steaming, which part of the North Sea we should be looking for and generally giving us data about the meteorological conditions, both on the way to the target and at the target. We always treat winds given to us by Met offices as a bit sceptical because they were seldom rarely right, and one of the jobs of the plotter is the navigator observer, he works the radar and gets the fixes every four minutes and then the plotter takes those fixes off my chart, and puts it on his chart and uses it to calculate variations in wind, which would call for a variation in course, and then you [unclear] travel at that time, at the back point, the pin point. You’ve got to hit it at the right time and we prided ourselves of getting there within six seconds, whereas the standard that was set which was easy with Gee. Now, when it came to dropping bombs, there were two briefings. The first briefing is if we were dropping twenty five pound practice bombs, one at a time, on the target. We could drop eight of those in two hours. The reason being that there is more than one aircraft using the bombing range at the same time. People on the ground have receivers so they can hear what the pilot says, so if you’re on your bombing run, your pilot switched on to transmit at the end of the bombing run, and you can hear the nav observer saying, ‘Steady. Steady. Steady Right. Right. Steady. Steady. Steady. Steady. Bombs gone’. And the pilot would echo, ‘Bombs gone’. And the people on the ground would then know, in so many seconds, a puff of smoke would show and we’d know where the bomb landed, and it was up to the people in the bomb proof shelters to get these bearings, pass them to a central control point by telephone. They would plot the three positions and get the fix of where the bomb actually hit and its relation to the target, so it could be 2 o’clock, a hundred yards. Mine laying was five hundred yards. That was visual bombing. GH bombing. I told you about Gee to get fixes, say where the aircraft position is, well GH uses the same equipment and the oscilloscope in the aircraft, but in this case, the master station, not the one that transmits the original signal, it’s the aircraft that puts the signal and it gets two replies and one gives you a course to steer to go over the target, pre-computers on the ground and the other gives you four points that you would check off one, two, three, four and when you tick off number four, you drop your bomb, so flying along in an arc, like that, and these lines have changed at right angles to that line, so you can navigate saying, ‘Right. Steady. Steady. Steady’, like you can with a visual bombing, but radar bombing at forty thousand feet is a lot more accurate, because with radar, you don’t have to see the target with your eyes. Visual bombing you’ve got to see the target with your eyes and often, if you are that high, the target is over the hill so you can’t see it. There are practical limitations with the visual bombsights.
MH: You mentioned Gee.
JBP: Yeah.
MH: Was it the same sort of Gee system that the navigators would have had to rely on during Bomber Command in World War Two?
JBP: Definitely.
MH: The same, the same system, it hadn’t changed or had it been -
JBP: No, Gee had had its life, because the nice thing about Gee was that you kept the security of the aircraft, your own aircraft. An aircraft that transmits signals can be homed on to. The Germans could create a radar which could home on to the transmitters from, say, with aircraft with H2S, H2S bombing system was a radar bombing system where the sea was black, the land was light green and built up areas are bottle green. Now that was transmitting a signal ever millisecond or so and an enemy fighter could home in on that signal and blast it. And missiles, of course, are even more effective at homing into signals like that. So what was nice about Gee was that it was a passive system. The aircraft didn’t transmit anything. It just took a signal from a master station and then when they came in, two signals from the slave station and with the oscilloscope it could be a calculated reading, and you go to the chart, plot those two readings and that gives the position of the aircraft. Now you could, we practiced a thing called GH homings, Gee homings [unclear], and that was used extensively in Bomber Command when we were using the Gee systems in the mid-40s, because you could pre-determine from your chart what signals you needed to see to be in a certain position at a certain time.
MH: Right.
JBP: So you’d put these points that you wanted to put down and then you’d go back on the arc of the signals to where you wanted to start tracking on to that. So say you were, went to Berlin, massive big target so it doesn’t really matter where you hit, but if you got a line going through the target, another line telling you when you got to the target, like a homing back to base, you can actually fly a course using Gee, a bit more complicated than GH but you could do that from 1942 onwards, ‘cause GH came in in 1944 and there was no doubt that, by the time I joined the Air Force, visual bombing was in decline, except for the Canberra, because they couldn’t miniaturise the H2S radar enough to fit into the Canberras size of aircraft, and what advantage we had and this, for many years, people don’t realise this the Canberra was a wonderful high altitude aircraft. You’re talking about it going, it had world records for fifty seven thousand feet at one stage, but an aircraft that could fly at that height and manoeuvre is very rare and the fighters with swept back wings couldn’t do that. The MIG15s found, always found Canberras a headache because when you tried to formate on it, you couldn’t get near it and if you tried to outmanoeuvre it, the Canberra was far better because of the big wing section between the engines but I felt very happy flying in Canberras. It was a good aircraft, just as the Mosquito had been before it because it was a replacement for the Mosquito.
MH: And did as many roles.
JBP: Yeah. And it was the only aircraft that served fifty six years operationally in the RAF. No other aircraft has gone beyond fifty years. I’d like to say it was because of myself you know [laughs]
MH: What would you say was your happiest time or your happiest moment or your happiest reflection in the RAF?
JBP: It sounds silly. We were only at Cottesmore for nine months, but there was a couple from Sheffield who joined the squadron two months after I did, and the husband was called Alf. Alf Bentley and his wife was Joan Bentley and they were quite a bit younger than me. In fact, they were the youngest married couple on the squadron. I think he was just, Alf was just on his twenty, just over twenty when he came to the squadron, and they had a son in ‘54 and twins in 1956. No. They were both born the same. Yes, Steve was born in January and the twins came in Christmas of the following year. They had three in ten months and I’m godfather to the eldest, and at the time that Steven was born, they had a sixteen foot caravan on the caravan site, and we had the main gate for RAF Cottesmore and next to that was the wooden huts for junior officers, ‘cause they didn’t have a properly built mess and we were all close together and the station similar, so there’s three groups. So the pattern we got into was that myself and Harry Tomkinson and Bob Haines, Bob flew as a navigation plotter in Pete Dyson and Alf Bentley’s crew, and we’d go up in the evenings to their caravan, and sometimes we go to the station cinema, and sometimes just play card games and board games, and of all my moments in the Air Force, the best moments were eating soft biscuits that Joan were trying to get rid of, and playing, playing monopoly and laughing like anything with Steven sleeping away. The day I came out of the cinema, I got a post here playing cricket at Usworth, and knocked a tooth out -
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Brian Payne
Creator
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Mark Hunt
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-06-08
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
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APayneJB150608
Format
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01:51:04 audio recording
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Second generation
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Cambridgeshire
Cyprus
Greece
North Africa
Egypt
Libya
Libya--Tobruk
England--Duxford (Cambridgeshire)
Description
An account of the resource
John Payne was born in 1932 and went into the Royal Air Force as part of his National Service, becoming a Navigator on the Canberra aircraft with 15 Squadron. His father went into the combined service in the First World War, and was training to be a pilot when the war ended in 1918. This prompted his desire to fly. John tells of his enjoyment of flying the Tiger Moth aircraft during his training at RAF Digby, and his experiences of his many travels to RAF stations.
He spent some time in Greece, taking part in intruder exercises, and also recalls his time spent near Tobruk and tells of his experiences including visiting a German war memorial. John participated in the Suez Canal crisis, and details his operations in Cyprus and Egypt, and the problems that this created from a navigational point of view. He tells about his meetings with Flight Lieutenant John Garstin and also Wing Commander Nath, the most decorated pilot of the Indian Air Force and the part they played in his life. John flew the T2 Canberra named Willie Howe 725 now on display at Duxford.
Contributor
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Vivienne Tincombe
Temporal Coverage
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1956
1957
15 Squadron
aircrew
faith
Gee
memorial
navigator
RAF Bassingbourn
RAF Digby
Tiger Moth
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1077/11535/APlenderleithJ151007.2.mp3
cd3b1395d95d7734637103a4e5584cff
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Plenderleith, John
J Plenderleith
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with John Plendereith (1822478R, Royal Air Force). He served as a wireless operator air gunner with 626 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-10-07
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Plenderleith, J
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
PL: Ok. So, hello. My name is Pam Locker and I’d just like to thank you very much indeed for agreeing to talk to the Bomber Command Memorial Trust. And I’m in the home of Mr John Plenderleith and he’s going to tell us all about some of his experiences through his life. Not just in Bomber Command but through his life. So, John, if you’d like to just to kick off. Perhaps telling us how you, perhaps a little bit about your earlier life and how you came to be involved with Bomber Command.
JP: Thank you. Right. I went through the normal training of an air signaller from 1943 onwards. I did my ITW at Bridgnorth. And Radio School at RAF Madley, in Herefordshire. And OTU, Operational Training Unit in sorry AFU, Advanced Flying Training Unit at Mona in Anglesey. And Operational Training Unit at Husbands Bosworth in Warwickshire. Then I went on to Heavy Conversion Unit at North Luffenham on Lancasters and during that time of training we took part in a diversion raid for a target in Germany. After that I moved on to 626 Squadron at Wickenby in Lincolnshire on, and that was in April and May 1945. During that time I took part in four Operation Mannas which was delivering food to the starving Dutch people in Holland. In enemy occupied Holland. And also at the end of the war I took part in Operation Exodus which was ferrying, flying prisoners of war from Brussels to the UK when the war finished. And also later I took part, part in Operation Dodge which was bringing the 8th Army back from Italy to the United Kingdom. Can we have a break?
PL: Of course. We’re just stopping now.
[recording paused]
PL: Restarting the tape. Ok John.
JP: When the war finished in Europe the RAF asked for volunteers to continue the war in Japan. Well, we had only just started our, our bomber programme and we volunteered for Tiger Force. Now, this was to continue with the Lancasters in the war against Japan. It carried on for quite a while and eventually the, the atomic bomb was dropped and of course the war in Japan ended in August. So we never really reached Japan but eventually ended up in Egypt and replaced 104 Squadron with Liberators to Lancasters. And we joined 104 Squadron for a short time. I was there for only about six months practically and the crew became split up. And I volunteered to carry on flying which I did do and I ended up in Air Headquarters Greece and spent the best part of two years there during the Greek communist civil war. Which was interesting. After that I came back to the UK and various postings. The main one was Transport Command at Lyneham on Hastings. And I did a good few overseas trips there. Including Australia for the testing of the atomic bombs. And after that the main flying I did was at Farnborough where I flew on the experimental side for up to seven years. And that completed my flying in somewhere about six thousand hours. After that I became an air traffic controller. And I was approach and radar controller at Lyneham until I retired in 1968. After retiring I took the Civil Air Traffic Control Licence and became a controller for the Army Air Corps and I spent a further twenty five years with the Army Air Corps which made sixty years service with the military in all.
PL: That’s amazing.
JP: That was a rough account of my service. Service history.
PL: That’s wonderful. Thank you so much. A couple of things I wanted to return to.
JP: Hmmn?
PL: A couple of things I wanted to return to —
JP: Yeah.
PL: Going back to Operation Manna.
JP: Uh huh.
PL: Can you just expand on that and expand —
JP: Sorry?
PL: Could you expand on your experience of Operation Manna and how that all worked, and you know. And your personal experience of that?
JP: It’s a job remembering now. Well, as with regards to Operation Manna I did [pause] where are we? [pause] I did four trips on Operation Manna. The first one was to the Hague and the second one was to Valkenburg. And the next two were to Rotterdam. As you know this was for dropping food for the starving Dutch people. And we flew out ultra low level. Mainly five hundred feet and below. We flew out and, to the drop zones and we did observe. It was occupied Holland and we did observe military. German military. But there was a truce which was more or less kept over all but occasionally it was broken with small arms fire. And that was really about it. That was the, the four places we dropped on and of course the public were most appreciative of what was happening at the time, dropping the food to them. And they made a great, it became a very important part of the war. Operation Manna. And we returned there four or five times and looked after the Dutch people who were, who really appreciated what was done. And I think it was a good thing to take part in a mercy mission rather than a bombing mission. Much better. Any more?
PL: So when, when you got to the to the sites, the drop sites were the people there? Or what could you see from from the air? Were the people waiting to pick up the food or how did it work?
JP: No. The Germans kept the crowd back, you know, from the drop zone. Because it would have been dangerous, you know. Because we dropped the stuff without parachutes and it would have been rather dangerous if it, if it had fallen on the crowd.
PL: And then they would be allowed to to go forward and —
JP: Well, it was then all collected to a centre and distributed. Yeah.
PL: Right. Ok. Ok . That’s fascinating.
JP: Yeah.
PL: And after the war did you hear any more about that and the affect that it had had? I mean obviously it was of such —
JP: Hmmn?
PL: Did you ever, after the war hear any more about the effect of Operation Manna? Obviously it was —
JP: Oh yes. It was quite often during, over the years it was quite often brought up that this was carried out. I think possibly to give a good name to Bomber Command. Which it did. Yes.
PL: Because it, it was stopped wasn’t it? Do you know anything about that? Why it was stopped.
JP: What?
PL: I think that it didn’t go on right until the end of the war did it? Or did it?
JP: Operation Manna?
PL: Yes.
JP: Yeah. Well, right more or less, up to right to the end of the war. Yeah.
PL: Right.
JP: Until Holland was liberated and there was then freedom of travel and, you know it was delivered by road as well.
PL: Fantastic. So, the crew must, it must have been such a different, a different experience to, to going on the raids. It must have been a wonderful uplifting experience. Did you feel safe?
JP: Well, you felt, I don’t say, I mean on the first one when we went to the briefing and found out what the trip was and we thought well at five hundred feet.
PL: Yes.
JP: We’d be been blown to bits.
PL: Yes. Yes.
JP: If they do, you know. But yeah. We did wonder and the first time really what would happen. Yeah.
PL: So quite nerve wracking.
JP: Hmmn.
PL: Yeah.
JP: But anyway, and then as I say after Manna there was Operation Exodus. That was bringing the POs. That was on the 9th. The 9th of May. The day the war was supposed to have ended. And there we went into Brussels and picked up a lot of the aircrew who had been shot down. And we brought them back alive to, to the UK. And that was —
PL: So was it specifically aircrew then that you brought back?
JP: Mainly. Mainly it was, yeah. Yeah. We brought back, I think it was, yeah it was twenty four. We had twenty four prisoners of war in the Lancaster. And there was never seats of course. They just sat on the floor of the aircraft. And the trip took what? There and back was four hours forty five minutes. But the, it was, you know bringing them back. When we came to the coast of England coming back. Some had been there, prisoners of war, for up to five years. And it really was something, you know. They really did appreciate coming back.
PL: It must have been very emotional for them.
JP: It was. Yeah. It was for us as well. Yeah. So —
PL: Yes. Good. Wonderful. And it must have been a bit tight having twenty four. Was there, was everybody a bit squashed in?
JP: Well, they were mainly, mainly from the crew compartment at the front to the back of the rear turret. And they were all on the floor there. Yeah.
PL: Fantastic. Did you want, did you want to say any more about that before I move on?
JP: Sorry?
PL: Did you want to say anything more about Operation Manna before we move on? Or the, or indeed Operation Exodus.
JP: Not really. The big thing about Manna was how appreciative the Dutch were that it was carried out. I mean, when we were at the Bomber Command Centre this last week a Dutch officer came and presented to the Centre a picture of the Lancasters flying low over Holland and dropping the food. And they want that to be shown you know, in the Centre. As part of the war. Yeah.
PL: It must make you feel very proud.
JP: Yeah.
PL: Wonderful. Thank you. So something else that you touched on was your involvement with the civil war in Greece. And you said that was an interesting experience.
JP: Yes. Well I was on the communication flight there for the RAF delegation to the Greek Air Force and we did quite a bit of flying in the operational area where the communists were. And we carried the Greek generals and British generals who observed what was going on. And with the fight against communism. I don’t, I really shouldn’t say this but the Greek Air Force, they awarded us their General Service Medal for what we did. RAF, the Air Ministry turned that down because it would mean that we were showing an active part to the Russians. So, that was cancelled. Yeah. It was amazing really.
PL: It’s all about politics in the end.
JP: Yeah. Yeah.
PL: So how long were you involved there?
JP: What? In Greece? Best part of nearly seven and a half years.
PL: Goodness. A long time.
JP: Yeah.
PL: Goodness.
JP: And during that time I married a lovely Greek girl. The photograph’s there. Do you see it?
PL: I can’t see it.
JP: Well, have a look—
PL: Oh there.
JP: Yeah.
PL: That was my first wife.
JP: She’s gorgeous.
PL: And she died when she was twenty eight years old.
JP: Oh no. Oh, I’m so sorry.
PL: Yeah.
JP: That was Maria. She died of cancer. And then five years later I married again. To Reina. And she died of cancer as well.
PL: Oh dear.
JP: Yeah. Anyway, that’s just bye the bye you know.
PL: So did you have children?
JP: Hmmn?
PL: Did you have children?
JP: Yes. I had three children. I had one by my first. First marriage. Who’s sixty five now [laughs]. And two by my second marriage. Yeah. And they are in their forties.
PL: Right.
JP: And my daughter, she just had breast cancer. So —
PL: You’ve had a tough time of it.
JP: Yeah.
PL: So Greece was a really significant —
JP: Hmmn?
PL: So Greece turned out to be a very significant part of your life.
JP: Oh yes. Yeah.
PL: In all sorts of ways.
JP: It was, flying wise it was interesting working along with the Greek Air Force, you know.
PL: So did you make lots of friends in —
JP: Hmmn?
PL: Did you make lots of friends in the Greek Air Force?
JP: In the Greek Air Force.
PL: Yes.
JP: Well, yes. Not a lot. No. But I met quite a few. I flew the odd trip with the Greek Air Force and just as young and daft [laughs] Yeah.
PL: But that was a very different experience.
JP: Yeah.
PL: Right. Ok.
JP: So, that was my history really in the services.
PL: Well, something else I wanted to ask you about that you mentioned that I thought would be really interesting to talk about is you talked about your involvement with the atomic bomb.
JP: Oh yes.
PL: And you mentioned that a couple of times. Do you want to just expand on that and say —
JP: Well, the one. Oh sorry.
PL: No. No. Don’t worry.
JP: I flew on the trip to Australia. To, it was either Woomera or Maralinga. And we carried the head for the hydrogen bomb. That was some trip because they had the, the head of the bomb in the centre of the aircraft and a yellow circle painted around it. And no way had we to step within that yellow circuit, circle. And an RAF squadron leader sat with it all the time until we got out to Australia. Yeah. That was, that was interesting. But —
PL: Was that, was that just a security procedure then?
JP: Sorry?
PL: Was that just a security procedure that you weren’t allowed to step within the ring?
JP: No. That was because, well the possibility of what do you call it?
PL: Radiation.
JP: Yeah.
PL: Right. Goodness. It just seems so —
JP: Anyway.
PL: Yeah.
JP: We were all —
PL: So how many, how many times did you do that? Was that just the one trip to Australia? Or —
JP: No. I did two, two trips to Australia. To the base in the south of Australia which was Maralinga or Woomera. Yeah. And that was, that was a long trip there and back in those days because it was in a Hastings aircraft which was a piston. And a piston aircraft and rather slow.
PL: Goodness. So how long did it take?
JP: The flying was somewhere over a hundred hours there and back. Yeah. Yeah.
PL: Goodness me. So you stopped off along the way.
JP: Oh yes. Yeah.
PL: Can you, can you remember where you stopped off and what the arrangements were?
JP: I think the first stop was Castel Benito. I’ve got it in my logbook there somewhere. And first stop was in North Africa. And the second was Iraq at Habbaniya. The third was Karachi. The fourth was Ceylon. Ceylon which is now —
PL: Sri Lanka.
JP: Yeah. And then on to Singapore. And then down to Darwin. And then down to Adelaide. And then across to, to Maralinga. Yeah.
PL: Amazing. Amazing.
JP: And then when I was at Farnborough and then the last years of flying I was mainly on the training. The, mainly on the trials of a navigation aid to cover the whole world. So, to do that we had to fly the whole world. Which was great because I went from South Africa to the North Pole to the Far East. To Hong Kong. To Australia. To Canada. What do you call it? The Caribbean. And South America and that. We had to fly world-wide which was very interesting. But of course all that’s been superceded now by what? Sat nav.
PL: Well, it’s everything is part of a process.
JP: That’s it. Yeah.
PL: And without your process then, you know nothing else could have followed.
JP: No.
PL: What an extraordinarily adventurous life you’ve had.
JP: Sorry?
PL: What an adventurous life you’ve had.
JP: Well, yeah. It was. It was. The two sad times was the loss of my wives.
PL: Of course.
JP: But, with regards to the rest of it. As regards to the services I wouldn’t have changed anything. No.
PL: Wonderful.
JP: Yeah.
PL: I I know we’re going right back to the very start but I’m curious to know how you became involved in signals in the first place. What drew you to that particular discipline?
JP: What? Sorry?
PL: I’m curious to know how you became drawn into signals in the first place.
JP: Well, we, it was what, well — you volunteered for aircrew. All the aircrew were volunteers. Nobody was called up to fly. I volunteered in Edinburgh. And at the time it was, what they were after at the time was air gunners and wireless operator air gunners. That’s what they really were after. And I became a w/op AG. What was known as a w/op AG or wireless operator air gunner. Eventually that became a signaller. Yeah. But —
PL: So that side of it appealed to you.
JP: Hmmn?
PL: That, that side of things appealed to you. The wireless operation. Had you had any experience before that? Had you had any interest before that or was it just something that you wanted?
JP: In the Air Force generally —
PL: No. No. In the, to be a wireless operator.
JP: Well, no. I was in the Air Training Corps of course. As a youngster in 1940.
PL: Right.
JP: And I was good at Morse. And of course they gave you, this was part of the selection procedure. I, I was then able to do what? Fifteen words a minutes Morse. Which I’d done and of course that was it.
PL: Fantastic.
JP: Yeah. Because the communications with Bomber Command was all done in Morse in those days. Yeah.
PL: And when you joined your crew were you with the same crew throughout Operation Manna and —
JP: Yeah. Same crew with me. Yeah.
PL: Right. So can you remember how you all came to be together?
JP: How did everybody —
PL: How, how —
JP: How did we come to be together?
PL: Together as a crew.
JP: Well that was at OTU. The Operational Training Unit on Wellingtons. What they did was they put all the aircrew in a hangar and the group captain said, ‘Sort yourselves out into crews [laughs] So it was, you know —
PL: So, how did you do it?
JP: Well, just sort of went around and speaking to each other and — yeah. Our skipper, Flying Officer Hall, he said, ‘Have you got anybody? I said, ‘Not yet.’ He said, ‘Well, you have now. You’re going to be my wireless operator.’ [laughs] You see. And that was how the they selected you. You selected yourselves.
PL: Fantastic.
JP: I had no idea what — really when I think of it now. We all volunteered. We didn’t know what we were volunteering for. My God we didn’t. I mean the losses were something terrible weren’t they? I remember when we went to, went to the squadron. Posted into 626 we were, we went to the picket post and they said that we would be in hut twelve and as a crew. So we went to this hut twelve and there was all the beds there. And you know people that had got up from there and, you know. Haven’t they got rid of them? We went back to the picket post and said, ‘It’s occupied.’ They said, ‘Well, they were shot down last night.’ And that was that. But I thought, well what an introduction to the squadron. Yeah. Yeah.
PL: Terrible.
JP: Still —
PL: And you all, did the whole of your group survive the war?
JP: The whole of — ?
PL: Did your, did your group survive?
JP: My, our crew.
PL: Your crew.
JP: Oh yeah. Yeah. We all survived. Yeah.
PL: Fantastic. Fantastic. And have you, did you keep in touch at all?
JP: Yeah. Kept in touch with the, with the bomb aimer. The two gunners were Canadians. Of course they went back to Canada when the war finished. And I kept in touch with the bomb aimer right until he died. What? A couple of years ago now and we used to go together to Holland for the Operation Manna. We went together on that. And, you know we were good friends right until he died. Yeah. Arthur. He’s up there on that photograph. That’s 626 Squadron.
PL: Fantastic. Fantastic.
JP: Yeah. That was taken in May ’45 when the war ended. These were all aircrew. It just shows. You know. I think the, those killed in 626 was somewhere about a thousand two hundred. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Right then.
PL: Well, there’s one more thing I want to ask you and that is about your feelings about how Bomber Command were treated after the war? What did you think about that? Do you have any comment that you’d like to be recorded?
JP: Well, there’s no doubt that the bombing of Germany [pause] was it right? Was it wrong? It’s difficult to say. I think, I think it was a means for the ending of the war but of course they always bring up Dresden don’t they? And Hanover. But I’m convinced that if the Luftwaffe had had an aircraft equivalent to the Lancaster we would have been bombed off the face off this earth as well. But they didn’t have a an aircraft that carried the load that we did. I mean they were mainly twin-engined in the, in their bomber force. Heinkels. But the Lancaster was a marvellous aircraft. And, was it right? Was it wrong? Difficult to say. I’m glad I ended up on Operation Manna. That was the, the saving grace wasn’t it? But no. It was wrong in a way and of course it was right in another way.
PL: Of course. Do you think that Bomber Command should have had more recognition for their contribution to the end of the war?
JP: Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it’s funny. Last week we had a picture taken against The Spire. And I don’t know how many of us were on the picture but there was quite a few. And there was one chap who said that. Why have they never given a — what do you call it, a campaign medal for operations in Bomber Command? It’s true. Why they didn’t I don’t know. They wanted to keep it quiet I think. But now. Now, they talk about it don’t they? Yeah. I mean the Memorial down at, in London. That came, what a couple of years later on. No. Two years ago or something like that isn’t it? And now the Spire. They’ve shown. Yeah. Because when you think of it fifty five thousand five hundred and seventy three. God almighty. Imagine a football ground full of fifty five and a half thousand airmen. That was the amount of aircrew that were lost. And they were all volunteers. Yeah. Well, anything else you would like to know? There’s nothing much more I can say.
PL: Well, unless there’s anything else you’d like to tell me then I guess the most important thing for me to say is to thank you very very much indeed on behalf of the Bomber Memorial [coughs] Bomber Command Memorial Trust.
JP: Yeah.
PL: For sharing your experiences with us. So thank you very much indeed.
JP: That’s alright I’m sure.
[recording paused]
PL: So, there was just another operation that you didn’t have a chance to talk about. Do you want to just tell me a little bit about that?
JP: Well, Operation Dodge was bringing the troops back from the end of the war in Africa and that. And we, we flew back. I think it was twenty four on each trip. That was much the same as Exodus. They were seated in the fuselage. And it was a longer trip of course. It was over six hours from, from Pomigliano and Rome to the United Kingdom. And I did that trip twice. So, we, we flew out there. Spent one night and then back the next day to the United Kingdom. This was to speed up the evacuation and the return of the troops. There’s nothing much more to say really. That, again that was they all looked forward to home coming and it was a quick way to, for them all to return home.
PL: Wonderful.
JP: Yeah.
[recording paused]
PL: So you were just telling me John about the cathedral.
JP: Yeah.
PL: So you set off and then you circled around.
PL: Well, how shall I put it? We, we often passed close to it you know. After leaving. Yeah. And of course it was always, I mean all those airfields were all, a lot of them were in sight of the cathedral, you know. It was a point that —
JP: A landmark.
PL: As I said it was a point that some of the, a lot of the crews never saw again and that was it. You know. They didn’t come back. But yeah. Anyway, that Spire. The height of it is the wingspan of a Lancaster. Yeah.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with John Plendeleith
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Pam Locker
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-07
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
APlenderleithJ151007
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:42:36 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Description
An account of the resource
John Plenderleith was in the Air Training Corps before he volunteered to join the RAF. He was posted to 626 Squadron at Wickenby and when the crew were allocated their hut they were surprised to find it was still occupied with another crew’s personal possessions. When they enquired they were told the other crew had failed to return from their last operation. He took part in Operations Manna and Exodus and recalls the appreciation of the Dutch people for receiving the food aid and of the ex-prisoners returning home. After the war he was posted to Transport Command and flew in Greece and also carried the nuclear head for the atomic bomb for testing in Australia. While at RAF Farnborough he took part in testing of new navigational equipment. When he retired from the RAF he became an air traffic controller for the Army Air Corps.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Egypt
Great Britain
Greece
England--Lincolnshire
England--Farnborough (Hampshire)
England--Hampshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
104 Squadron
626 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
crewing up
Lancaster
memorial
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
perception of bombing war
RAF Farnborough
RAF Wickenby
Tiger force
training
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/656/15058/LWilsonJ1486634v1.1.pdf
0e9b78e07dd37d9a2ee74a5919353528
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wilson, Joseph
J Wilson
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Wilson, J
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. An oral history interview with Flying Officer Joseph Wilson (1923 - 2019), 1486434 Royal Air Force), his log book, identity card and a photograph. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 102 and 76 Squadrons before being posted to 624 Special Duties Squadron where he dropped supplies and agents to the resistance in Southern Europe.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Jenny Wilson and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-12-29
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Joseph Wilson's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observer's and air gunner's flying log book for J Wilson, covering the period from 12 July 1942 to 26 March 1945. Detailing his flying training, Operations flown and instructor duties. He was stationed at RAF Penrhos, RAF Lossiemouth, RAF Pocklington, RAF Rufforth, RAF Linton-on-Ouse, RAF Holme-on-Spalding-Moor, RAF Tempsford, RAF Blida, RAF Sidi Amor, RAF Tocra, RAF Brindisi, RSAAF Youngs Field and RSAAF East London. Aircraft flown in were, Blenheim, Anson, Wellington, Halifax, C-47 and Oxford. He flew 6 night operations with 102 squadron, 9 night operations with 76 squadron and 32 night operations with 624 special duties squadron. Targets were Essen, Nurnberg, Munich, Stuttgart, Krefeld, Mulheim, Wuppertal, Gelsenkirchen, Cologne, Montbeliard, Remscheid, Corsica, Srajevo, Split, Sofia, Salonika, Marseilles and Toulon. His pilots on operations were Sergeant Giffiths, Sergeant Heaton and Flight Sergeant Povey.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LWilsonJ1486634v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Algeria
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
France
Germany
Great Britain
Greece
Italy
Libya
South Africa
Algeria--Blida
Bosnia and Herzegovina--Sarajevo
Croatia--Split
England--Bedfordshire
England--Yorkshire
France--Corsica
France--Marseille
France--Montbéliard
France--Toulon
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Mülheim an der Ruhr
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Remscheid
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Wuppertal
Greece--Thessalonikē
Italy--Brindisi
Libya--Tūkrah
Scotland--Moray
South Africa--Cape Town
Tunisia--Sidi Ameur
Wales--Gwynedd
North Africa
Tunisia
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1943-03-03
1943-03-05
1943-03-06
1943-03-08
1943-03-09
1943-03-10
1943-03-11
1943-03-12
1943-04-03
1943-04-04
1943-06-21
1943-06-22
1943-06-23
1943-06-24
1943-06-25
1943-06-26
1943-06-28
1943-06-29
1943-07-04
1943-07-05
1943-07-09
1943-07-10
1943-07-15
1943-07-16
1943-07-30
1943-07-31
1943-09-17
1943-09-18
1943-09-23
1943-09-24
1943-10-18
1943-10-19
1943-10-20
1943-10-21
1943-10-22
1943-10-23
1943-10-24
1943-11-03
1943-11-04
1943-11-12
1943-11-13
1943-11-16
1943-11-17
1943-12-03
1943-12-04
1943-12-05
1943-12-06
1943-12-10
1943-12-11
1943-12-16
1943-12-17
1943-12-20
1943-12-21
1944-01-08
1944-01-10
1944-01-11
1944-01-12
1944-01-13
1944-01-14
1944-01-19
1944-01-20
1944-01-22
1944-01-23
1944-01-28
1944-01-29
1944-01-30
1944-01-31
1944-02-13
1944-02-14
1944-03-05
1944-03-06
1944-03-07
1944-03-08
1944-03-10
1944-03-11
102 Squadron
1652 HCU
1663 HCU
20 OTU
624 Squadron
76 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
Blenheim
bomb aimer
bombing
C-47
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Me 109
mine laying
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Penrhos
RAF Pocklington
RAF Rufforth
RAF Tempsford
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1213/15125/MDonaldsonDW70185-150610-05.2.pdf
c29974454dd87a381ff788661f6c5166
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Donaldson, David
David Donaldson
D Donaldson
Description
An account of the resource
309 Items and a sub-collection of 51 items. Concerns Royal Air Force career of Wing Commander David Donaldson DSO and bar, DFC. A pilot, he joined the Royal Air Force Reserve in 1934. Mobilized in 1939. he undertook tours on 149, 57 and 156 and 192 Squadrons. He was photographed by Cecil Beaton at RAF Mildenhall in 1941. Collection contains a large number of letters to and from family members, friends as well as Royal Air Force personnel. Also included are personal and service documents, and his logbooks. In addition, there are photographs of family, service personnel and aircraft. After the war he became a solicitor. The collection also contains an oral history interview with Frances Grundy, his daughter.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Anna Frances Grundy and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-02
2022-10-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Donaldson, D
Grundy, AF
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
David Donaldson passport
Description
An account of the resource
Issued in may 1933 to David Donaldson as government official. Stamps for Germany 1934, France 1933, Visas for Romania 1935, Yugoslavia 1935, Bulgaria 1935, Greece 1935, USA 1941.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
UK Passport Office
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1933-05-08
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Nine double page printed booklet with cover
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MDonaldsonDW70185-150610-05
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
France
Germany
Romania
Yugoslavia
Bulgaria
Greece
United States
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1933-05-08
1933
1934
1935
1941
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/976/16154/LManningR52870v1.1.pdf
247348241574f6d9c13acee159d9d84f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Observer’s and Air Gunner’s Log Book
Description
An account of the resource
The Observer’s and Air Gunner’s Log Book covering the period 15 June 1941 to the 16 August 1963. Manning qualified first as an Air Gunner on the 4 July 1941 and second as a flight engineer on the 1 September 1941. He was commissioned on the 4 July 1943 as a Pilot Officer and promoted to acting Flight Lieutenant in April 1944, and again to acting Squadron Leader in March 1946. He reverted to Flight Lieutenant in April 1947 but was made substantive Squadron Leader in April 1956 in the Engineering Branch. He retired 16 August 1963. There are very few entries relating to his time as a Gunner. Most entries are as Engineer.
He was stationed at RAF Stormy Down; RAF Middleton St George; RAF Linton-on-Ouse; RAF Leeming, RAF Aqir, RAF Fayid, RAF Marston Moor, RAF Snaith, RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor, RAF Cottesmore, RAF Finingley, RAF Scampton, RAF Binbrook, RAF Henlow, RAF Seletar, RAF LLandow, RAF Swaton Morley, and RAF Medmenham. He flew in the following types manly as Engineer ; Arvo Tutor, Armstrong Whitworth Ensign, Handley Page Hannibal, Hawker Hart, Handley Page Heyford, Douglas DC 4 and 5, Handley Page Harrow, Handley Page Halifax, Miles Magister, Armstrong Whitworth Whitley, Avro Lancaster, Fairey Battle, Airspeed Oxford, de Havilland Mosquito, Avro Lincoln, Handley Page Hastings, Gloster Meteor, Avro Anson, Vickers Valletta, Vickers Wellington, Percival Prentice, Bristol Britannia and Handley Page Victor. He flew with 10 Sqaudron, 462 Squadron, 51 Squadron, and 614 Squadron. He was awarded the DFC. Pilots he flew with were Richards, Sobinski, Lewin, Turnbull, Hacking, Godfrey, Trip, Peterson, Lloyd, Bell, O’Driscoll, Allen, Declerk, Gribben, Gibsons, Wyatt, Clarke, Snow, Hardy, Haydon, McDonald, Murray, Jones, Dennis, Fisher, Connolly, Cheshire, Woolnough, Cat, McIntosh, Pope, Alcock, Smythe, Williams, Freeman, McKnight, Gillchrist, Moore, Faulkner, Carr, Espie, Brown, Price, Wiltshire, Spence, Symmons, Kirk, King, Burgess, Wilson, Pugh, Johnson, Reynolds, Roberts, Ringer, Minnis, Lowe, Everett, Renshaw-Dibb, Mathers, Sullings, Flower, Jarvis, Chopping, Widmer, Yates, Day, Spires, Huggins, Watts, Haycock, Owens, Liversidge, George , Banfield, Hunt, Porter, Goodman, Ayres, Shannon, Laytham, Lord, Rhys and Blundy,
War time operations were to Sharnhorst and Gneisenau, Cologne, St Nazaire, Kiel, Paris, Aysen Fjord, Terpitz, Trondheim, Hamburg, Mannheim, Essen, Osnabruck, Tobruk, Heraklion, Maleme, Lens, Colline Beaumont, Bourg-Leopold, Trappes, Mont-Fleury, Abbeville, Nucourt, Le Harve, Boulogne. Post war destinations were to RAF Netheravon, RAF Hemswell, RAF Scampton, RAF Lindholm, RAF Marnham, RAF St Eval, RAF Aldergrove, RAF Wyton, RAF Stradishall, RAF Binbrook, RAF Bagington, RAF Waddington, RAF Topcliffe, RAF Upwood, Kai Tak, Changi, RAF Pembrey, RAF Llandow, RAF Filton, and RAF Bruggen.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Manning, Reg
Reginald Manning
R Manning
Description
An account of the resource
Six items, concerning Pilot Officer Reg Manning DFC (567647 Royal air Force) including his flying log book and photographs. He served as an air gunner and flight engineer with 10 Squadron, 462 Squadron, 51 Squadron, and 614 Squadron.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Reg Manning.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Manning, R
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Reg Manning's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
The Observer’s and Air Gunner’s Log Book covering the period 15 June 1941 to the 16 August 1963. Manning qualified first as an Air Gunner on the 4 July 1941 and second as a flight engineer on the 1 September 1941. He was commissioned on the 4 July 1943 as a Pilot Officer and promoted to acting Flight Lieutenant in April 1944, and again to acting Squadron Leader in March 1946. He reverted to Flight Lieutenant in April 1947 but was made substantive Squadron Leader in April 1956 in the Engineering Branch. He retired 16 August 1963. There are very few entries relating to his time as a Gunner. Most entries are as Engineer. He was stationed at RAF Stormy Down; RAF Middleton St George; RAF Linton-on-Ouse, RAF Leeming, RAF Aqir, RAF Fayid, RAF Marston Moor, RAF Snaith, RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor, RAF Cottesmore, RAF Finningley, RAF Scampton, RAF Binbrook, RAF Henlow, RAF Seletar, RAF LLandow, RAF Swanton Morley, and RAF Medmenham. He flew in the following types manly as Engineer; Avro Tutor, Armstrong Whitworth Ensign, Handley Page Hannibal, Hawker Hart, Handley Page Heyford, Douglas DC 4 and 5, Handley Page Harrow, Handley Page Halifax, Miles Magister, Armstrong Whitworth Whitley, Avro Lancaster, Fairey Battle, Airspeed Oxford, de Havilland Mosquito, Avro Lincoln, Handley Page Hastings, Gloster Meteor, Avro Anson, Vickers Valletta, Vickers Wellington, Percival Prentice, Bristol Britannia and Handley Page Victor. He flew with 10 Squadron, 462 Squadron, 51 Squadron, and 614 Squadron. He was awarded the DFC. His pilots on operations were Warrant Officer Peterson, Flight sergeant Whyte, Warrant Officer O'Driscoll, Sergeant Declerk, Flight Sergeant Clarke, Sergeant Gibbons, Sergeant Wyatt, Flight Lieutenant Freeman, Flight Sergeant McKnight, Pilot Officer Gillchrist, Flight Sergeant Moore, Warrant Officer Skinner, Warrant Officer Faulkner, Flying Officer Carr and Flight Sergeant Espie. War time operations were to Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, Cologne, St Nazaire, Kiel, Paris, Aasen Fjord, Tirpitz, Trondheim, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Mannheim, Essen, Osnabruck, Tobruk, Heraklion, Maleme, Lens, Colline Beaumont, Bourg-Leopold, Trappes, Mont Fleury, Abbeville, Nucourt, Le Havre, Boulogne, Gibraltar, Kasfereet. Post war destinations were to RAF Netheravon, RAF Hemswell, RAF Scampton, RAF Lindholme, RAF Marnham, RAF St Eval, RAF Aldergrove, RAF Wyton, RAF Stradishall, RAF Binbrook, RAF Baginton, RAF Waddington, RAF Topcliffe, RAF Upwood, Kai Tak, Changi, RAF Pembrey, RAF Llandow, RAF Filton, and RAF Bruggen.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1951
1952
1953
1954
1955
1956
1957
1958
1959
1960
1961
1962
1963
1942-02-12
1942-02-14
1942-02-15
1942-02-16
1942-02-22
1942-02-23
1942-02-26
1942-02-27
1942-03-03
1942-03-04
1942-03-30
1942-03-31
1942-04-27
1942-04-28
1942-04-29
1942-05-03
1942-05-04
1942-05-06
1942-05-07
1942-05-19
1942-05-20
1942-05-30
1942-05-31
1942-06-01
1942-06-02
1942-06-03
1942-06-04
1942-06-05
1942-06-19
1942-06-20
1942-06-22
1942-07-11
1942-07-12
1942-07-18
1942-07-19
1942-07-20
1942-07-21
1942-07-24
1942-07-25
1942-09-03
1942-09-15
1942-09-16
1942-09-17
1942-09-18
1942-09-29
1942-09-30
1942-10-05
1942-10-06
1942-10-12
1942-10-13
1942-10-18
1942-10-19
1942-10-23
1942-10-24
1942-10-27
1942-10-29
1942-11-05
1942-11-07
1942-11-23
1943-07-24
1943-07-26
1943-07-27
1943-07-29
1943-08-01
1944-05-10
1944-05-11
1944-05-12
1944-05-27
1944-05-31
1944-06-01
1944-06-06
1944-06-11
1944-06-12
1944-06-23
1944-06-24
1944-07-15
1944-07-17
1944-09-11
1944-09-17
1945-06-19
1944-06-05
1944-07-18
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Germany
Great Britain
Egypt
Middle East--Palestine
Singapore
China--Hong Kong
England--Yorkshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Rutland
England--Norfolk
England--Bedfordshire
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Gloucestershire
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Suffolk
England--Warwickshire
Wales--Carmarthenshire
Belgium
Belgium--Leopoldsburg
Greece--Crete
Greece--Ērakleion
Libya
Libya--Tobruk
Norway
Norway--Trondheim
France
France--Saint-Nazaire
France--Paris
France--Lens
France--Colline-Beaumont
France--Soligny-la-Trappe
France--Abbeville
France--Nucourt
France--Le Havre
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Essen
Germany--Osnabrück
Germany--Stuttgart
Gibraltar
Norway--Aasen Fjord
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
Northern Ireland
North Africa
France--Ver-Sur-Mer
Scotland--Shetland
China
Greece
Great Britain
Great Britain
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Durham (County)
Greece
Greece--Maleme
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LManningR52870v1
10 Squadron
1652 HCU
1668 HCU
462 Squadron
51 Squadron
614 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
air sea rescue
aircrew
Anson
Battle
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
Cook’s tour
Distinguished Flying Cross
flight engineer
Gneisenau
Halifax
Harrow
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lincoln
Magister
Me 110
Meteor
Mosquito
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Oxford
promotion
RAF Aqir
RAF Binbrook
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Filton
RAF Finningley
RAF Hemswell
RAF Henlow
RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor
RAF Honington
RAF Kasfereet
RAF Leeming
RAF Lindholme
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Marham
RAF Marston Moor
RAF Medmenham
RAF Middleton St George
RAF Pembrey
RAF Scampton
RAF Snaith
RAF St Eval
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Stradishall
RAF Swanton Morley
RAF Topcliffe
RAF Upwood
RAF Waddington
RAF Wyton
Scharnhorst
tactical support for Normandy troops
Tirpitz
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
Whitley
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Dear Sir or Madam
Maybe you have left it rather late, or it may be you’ve got it just right. On returning to civvy street we felt isolated and diminished. After a tour of operations I returned to my civilian job to continue & finish a tool making apprenticeship, at [deleted] almost [/deleted] twenty four with a wife & child. As I returned [deleted] the [/deleted] those that had stayed in their reserved occupations were leaving [deleted] going [/deleted] [inserted] leaving [/inserted] to do their national service, you were no hero’es, [sic] I had been a warrant officer, (promotion came from still being alive) alongside me was an ex Flight Liuetenant [sic] [deleted] D.F [/deleted] Distinguished Flying cross, he was a labourer sweeping the floor of a machine shop!!!! So much for “brylcreem boys.” I felt isolated
[page break]
[indecipherable] the greatest bunch of [indecipherable] (or boys) ever assembled anywhere but our baptism came before this; I finished a tour and went on to flying V.I.P.s around, it was known as a Comm Flight, this role eventually diminished and I was posted from ALGIERS to CAIRO (it appears to have been an error, the locust insecticide spraying didn’t materialise) so I was posted in error to ATHENS, I was offered another Comm flight job, but having watched an aircraft dive into the sea and suffered the poor aircraft serviceability, since the demob roster had started, and the older service and greater experience fitters were being released I declined. It was then that the penguins took over (non-flying birds) and I was told to cover my badges of rank and be treated as an A.C.2 GD,
[page break]
[indecipherable] being the lowest rank, G.D. being general duties, this being labouring and the like, we were no heroe’s, [sic] and we took this attitude to civvy street. If post traumatic stress syndrome had been thought of, then I’m sure we would have qualified. Evetually [sic] returning to England we were interviewed with a view for signing on for further service, you may imagine the response that got, so all in all I was proud to have been in the company of other aircrew and not at all happy with an organisation that didn’t properly ever feed me, that left us so short of supplies that in 4 ½ years of service I couldn’t ever get a new pair of socks.
You have selected the Lancaster to be the vehicle [deleted] for your [/deleted] to carry your programme and good luck to you but perhaps you may alienate so many of us who served in the Hampdens.
[page break]
[indecipherable] Halifaxes, Stirlings, [indecipherable] Manchesters, Fortresses & Liberators, and Mosquitos who were part of Bomber Command. We have heard of the DAMS EPISODE but what about mining the DANUBE to stop the transport of HITLERS only supply of natural oil, (sometime [inserted] wrongly [/inserted] reported as by Lancasters) by Wellingtons, Liberators & Halifaxes of 205 GROUP consisting of 10 squadrons, ex desert squadrons operating from Italy, and reported in some accounts to be [inserted] among [/inserted] the most effective raids of the war, or the bombing of PLOESTIE [sic] oilfields in Roumania second most defended target after BERLIN. once again by 205 GROUP, maximum effort about 150 aircraft.
If I may be allowed to continue, we had a tour of forty operations not thirty, and the only one I know who got a medal (D.F C.) was one
[page break]
[indecipherable] (I was a navigator) and that [indecipherable] probably because he became a Flight Commander. Whilst those operating from England were given Aircrew Europe medals, it was denied us although I bombed France, Italy, Germany. Austria, CZECHOSlovakia, Hungary, Roumania, Yugoslavia, and ferried Infantrymen to GREECE when the airfield was overlooked & fired on by ELAS Greek rebels.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter from Ted Neale
Description
An account of the resource
He refers to feeling 'isolated and diminished' when returning to civilian work. He rejoined the Royal Air Force, but the jobs became more menial and supplies and maintenance were poor. He describes the contrast with some of the operations he took part in during the war.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ted Neale
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Five handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ENealeETH[Recipient][Date]-030001,
ENealeETH[Recipient][Date]-030002,
ENealeETH[Recipient][Date]-030003,
ENealeETH[Recipient][Date]-030004,
ENealeETH[Recipient][Date]-030005
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece--Athens
Romania--Ploiești
Greece
Romania
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Karl Williams
David Bloomfield
aircrew
B-17
B-24
bombing
demobilisation
Distinguished Flying Cross
Halifax
Hampden
Lancaster
Manchester
mine laying
Mosquito
navigator
Stirling
Wellington
Whitley
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[underlined] The Algerian affair and on [/underlined]
I came to the end of my operational tour on Mark Ten Wimpeys in late December 1944, the end was a trip down South to GROTAGLI [sic] to pick up infantry, to take on to KALAMAKI airfield, just outside ATHENS. We arrived at [deleted] C [/deleted] GROTAGLI to be met by this bunch of very subdued soldiers, they became more aprehensive [sic] when they saw the aircraft, and much more [inserted] so [/inserted] when we climbed down the ladder and revealed ourself [sic], we had been living in old clapped out tents, knee deep in mud and muck, it rained daily for months and we wore wellington boots always. On command from those in charge, they formed up and filed up the ladder in the front of the aircraft, until we had our quota of 12. they landed [inserted] up [/inserted] in the bombing area, where the bomb aimer lay and sighted thru his bomb site, watching until the target
[page break]
[underlined] 2 [/underlined] run down his screen and met his cross wire, when he would press his release tit and the bombs would leave us, on their way to the target, they then stepped up to land beside the pilot, with all his controls, on his right, then on past the wireless operator, then past my navigation table with the maps spread out, and all my navigation devices all around, then on to the main spar, which joined the wings together in the middle of the plane, climbing over this to the long bed and the toilet, those that could bagged the bed, one sat on the toilet, the rest settled where they could, making sure not to step just on the fabric covering the aircraft as their foot would go thru. They sat quitly [sic] as we taxied out and took off, they watched, but not a peep during the several hou[inserted]r[/inserted]s[deleted]e[deleted] it took to Greece.
[page break]
[underlined] 3 [/underlined]. We had been told that the E.L.A.S rebels were firing on aircraft as they landed. In the event we landed safely, the soldiers disembark while the crew went off to find some food. The airfield was in a [inserted] state of [/inserted] siege, surrounded by the E.L.A.S. the job of our soldiers was to lift the siege, there must have been about 500. We were supposed to take off to return to Italy but one of the aircraft suffered a puncture, and it couldn’t be mended until the next day, unfortunately our pilot was the senior officer and was in charge of the operation, and therefore had to see all the planes off, so we were forced to stay the night. We were fed and watered and given a bed, and each was given a rifle with ammunition in case there had been a break thru, we went to bed. with firing going on outside. About 2 o’clock there
[page break]
[circled] 4 [/circled] was a commotion and we woke to find a couple of soldiers, bringing [inserted] in [/inserted] a terrorist that they had captured, he was covered by a couple of machine guns, and held in the corner of the room, we went back to bed and slept, feeling quite safe. Next day we eventually got away, down through the Corinth canal into the Adriatic, then heading North. The weather at this time was atrocious, with no visibility at all, we dropped down to try and get under it but with hills up to 4,500ft on a path to the airfield, we didn’t brake cloud almost to the deck, so we went up to get above the weather, this proved impossible, all this time our wireless operator was trying to contact base, but the signal was not good enough to read. When the time came to turn to the West
[page break]
5 to the airfield at Tortorella we were faced with the big hills, so we sent a message to base to say that we were making our way further north to Leghorn; hoping that this was clear, so we pressed on, the Pilot was [deleted] about [/deleted] a bit perturbed about our fuel situation, but I monitored the fuel panel which had several fuel gauges which responded when I ressed [sic] the relating button, the gauges showed that we had about a quarter of our load left and not to worry. The pilot then saw a field on our port side, the weather had cleared and he could see many aircrew slewn [sic] around, these proved to be American Fortres [sic] an [sic] Liberator bombers which had been bombing up north and had been badly damaged and could
[page break]
6
not make it home, and had hobled [sic] in once they had cleared the bomb line. I told the pilot that we were just a few minutes away, just the other side a hill in front of us, but to reassure him, I would turn on the nacelle tanks, these were petrol tanks on the top of the engines for emergency, I had the control beside me so I turned them on, and [deleted] th [/deleted] within a few minutes we cleared the hills and came to the airfield and landed. By this time it was late so by the time we refuelled [deleted] ate [/deleted] it would be too late to take off so we had to stay, the night, my only
[page break]
7. memory of this, was that we freezing [sic] cold and soking [sic] wet, we spent hours round a stove trying to get dry and warm. We took off the next morning and flew back to base, we were met by a crowd when we landed, including some of the Americans from the B17 side of the field, because none of our signals from the air or from the field at Leghorn were received, and until we landed we were posted as missing. The only consolation in this was that my operting [sic] time was completed, no more bombing runs, or low level mine drops or supply drops into Yugoslavia. The Wellinton [sic] had that day been withdrawn from service and replaced by Liberators.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The Algerian Affair and On
Description
An account of the resource
Ted Neale's account of his last operation on a Wellington Mk 10. They had to fly to Grotaglie to take soldiers to Athens. He describes how they fitted the 12 men into the aircraft. On reaching Kalamaki, the airfield was being besieged by ELAS troops. On the return flight, the weather was atrocious, they ran low on fuel and were posted as missing before they reached base.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ted Neale
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Seven handwritten sheets
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0180001,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0180002,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0180003,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0180004,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0180005,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0180006,
MNealeETH1395951-150731-0180007
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Greece--Kalamata
Italy
Italy--Livorno
Italy--Grottaglie
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-12
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
aircrew
B-17
B-24
bomb aimer
military service conditions
navigator
pilot
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1250/16439/PNealeETH15010031.1.jpg
cd2621b2e9abf5e52c87fe213c885d3f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted. Album
Description
An account of the resource
30 items. An album of photographs taken during Ted Neale's service in the Mediterranean theatre.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Acropolis of Athens
Description
An account of the resource
A roof top view of Athens with low houses. In the background are low hills and the Parthenon.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PNealeETH15010031
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Greece--Athens
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1250/16441/PNealeETH15010034.2.jpg
e57c9a206e011c241da9ed5f9b00afab
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1250/16441/PNealeETH15010035.2.jpg
4c9eb612710b7fb2f6a296a222923f2f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted. Album
Description
An account of the resource
30 items. An album of photographs taken during Ted Neale's service in the Mediterranean theatre.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Football match
Description
An account of the resource
A group of eleven men playing football, watched by a referee in full uniform and flat cap and man in football kit. On the reverse 'Football in the shadow of Mt."Imetos" '
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PNealeETH15010034
PNealeETH15010035
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Greece--Mount Hymettus
sport
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1246/16776/MNealeETH1395951-150731-096.1.jpg
9acaf92c3b098433ec6d5f9c53c08321
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Neale, Ted
E T H Neale
Description
An account of the resource
123 items. The collection concerns Edward Thomas Henry Neale (b. 1922, 1395951 Royal Air Force) who served as a navigator with 37 Squadron in North Africa, the Middle East and Italy. The collection contains his training notebooks from South Africa as well as propaganda leaflets dropped by the allies in the Mediterranean theatre.
The collection also contains a photograph album, navigation logs and target photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Alison Neale and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-31
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Neale, ETH
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[crest] 205 GROUP ROYAL AIR FORCE [crest]
Albania, Jugoslavia, Bulgaria, Syria, Iraq, Rhodes, Crete, Piraeus, Corinth, Leros, Daba, Capuzzo, Fuka, Halfaya, El Adem, Martuba, Tobruk, Benghazi, Tripoli, Mareth, Gabes, Cape Bon, Tunis
[map]
Palermo, Pantellaria, Syracuse, Messina, Salerno, Anzio, Viterbo, Guilianova, Verona, Turin, Pisa, Leghorn, Trieste, Milan, Sofia, Budapest, Steyr, Valence, Munich, Fiume, Bucharest, Ploesti, Danube
In the 1939 – 1945 World War
205 Group provided the only mobile force of heavy night bombers in the Mediterranean theatre. During the North African and Italian campaigns the Wellingtons, Halifaxes and Liberators of the Group, operating as a tactical force, attacked communications and concentrations of Rommel’s Africa Korps and of the Italian armies during their advance to the Quattara Depression, the Battle of El Alamein and during their retreat until their final capitulation in Tunisia. Without respite they operated against Kesselring’s army during the invasions of Sicily, Italy and the South of France. As a strategical force their targets – ports, airfields, marshalling yards, oil refineries and factories-ranged over the Mediterranean area and Europe. Aid was given to patriots in France, supplies and arms’ were dropped to Partizans in the Balkans and to the patriots in Warsaw. The Danube was mined persistently.
Shining courage is the epitaph of those who died.
We will remember them.
JUNE 1940 MAY 1945
[indecipherable word] A.B. Rud
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
205 Group Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
A commemorative poster with a map of Southern Europe and North Africa. Around the outside is a list of locations where operations were carried out. There is a paragraph with details of the operations.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
205 Group Royal Air Force
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One printed sheet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MNealeETH1395951-150731-096
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Albania
Austria
Austria--Steyr
Bulgaria
Bulgaria--Sofia
Croatia
Croatia--Rijeka
Danube River
France
France--Valence (Drôme)
Germany
Germany--Munich
Greece
Greece--Corinth Canal
Greece--Crete
Greece--Piraeus
Greece--Rhodes (Island)
Hungary
Hungary--Budapest
Iraq
Italy
Italy--Anzio
Italy--Giulianova
Italy--Livorno
Italy--Messina
Italy--Milan
Italy--Palermo
Italy--Pantelleria Island
Italy--Pisa
Italy--Salerno
Italy--Syracuse
Italy--Trieste
Italy--Turin
Italy--Verona
Italy--Viterbo
Libya
Libya--Banghāzī
Libya--Martuba
Libya--Tobruk
Libya--Tripoli
North Africa
Romania
Romania--Bucharest
Romania--Ploiești
Syria
Tunisia
Tunisia--Mareth Line
Tunisia--Qābis
Tunisia--Sharīk Peninsula
Tunisia--Tunis
Egypt--Fukah
Greece--Leros (Municipality)
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
bombing
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1290/17405/POpenshawB1805-0017.2.jpg
a60d0efb2e87738b0001ef3c214c672b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Tatoi aerodrome
Description
An account of the resource
Target photograph showing some buildings top left and flares across the bottom. Captioned '1846.Fog, 13/14 Sep 44, NT 8", 6400ft,→ 090 degrees. 0007'. Annotated 'Tatoi A/D 6 x TI flares'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1944-09-13
1944-09-14
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph mounted on an album page
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
POpenshawB1805-0017
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-09-13
1944-09-14
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Greece
Greece--Dekeleia
aerial photograph
bombing
target photograph