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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/6/12/AFarmerV150730.2.mp3
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Farmer, Vic
Victor Farmer
V R Farmer
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Vic Farmer (-2022), a navigator with 550 Squadron. The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-30
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Farmer, V
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
VF: I’m now coming up to age ninety two. I am the last member of my crew, of the Bomber Command in Bomber Command Number 1 Group flying with 550 squadron flying out of North Killingholme.
MJ: And your name is?
VF: And of course my name is Vic Farmer and I flew, I joined the RAF as soon as I reasonably could. I wanted to join when I was seventeen but my parents would not give their consent. However, when I was eighteen, shortly after, I volunteered for aircrew. I wanted to be a pilot but I’m afraid when the, in the training that followed the ground course I just couldn’t fly a plane so not to waste, waste my abilities they put me to be a navigator. That meant going abroad for training and I trained in South Africa. At East London and Queenstown in South Africa. Came back to this country and did further training as a navigator in the, in our climate here in this country and eventually went on to be crewed up.
I remember shall we say being approached by an Australian pilot. A young Australian pilot. He was putting together a crew but to his own specific formula. He wanted two Australians, two Canadians and two Brits. So the two Canadians were gunners, a bomb aimer and the pilot they were Australians, the wireless operator and myself - we were the Brits. These are part of his formula – no officers. So we began our training together first on twin engine Wellingtons then on Halifaxes and on Lancasters.
But on the way we had problems. My pilot, because of the policy of the Australian government was commissioned and then of course he had what we call women, a woman problem and a pilot with a woman problem was dead. Was, shall we say, not a very good thing. So on our training he actually crash landed us in a Halifax. We were lucky the engines practically fell off red hot but fortunately we didn’t go up in flames. If we had I would probably not be here. So that was, we then refused to fly with him - the crew. And I had to speak up for the crew and eventually they, our plea was accepted and we waited to be taken over by another pilot.
Along came a Flying Officer Thomas. He was over thirty. He had a paunch and he had a sort of an eye twitch and I thought my goodness talk about, shall we say, out of the frying pan in to the fire. But however he proved to be an excellent Bomber Command pilot. He had been a flying instructor and he was the only commissioned person in the crew so he had us all organised together and to work as a crew and we went on to fly with him and we went to 550 squadron which had only been formed, in 19, late 1943 and we actually flew on D-Day itself. Well not quite on D-Day itself. It was twenty five minutes past midnight on the 7th of June.
And we were working extremely hard because we were flying day and, and night during our tour and we did a whole range of targets but many of them were to, how shall I put it, made travelling conditions for German support to the D-Day, for our front shall we say very difficult so they could not bring up their reinforcements. Our first attack was on, so they could not attack us, on [inaudible], shall we say - a railway marshalling yard, marshalling yard just outside Paris.
So we flew as I say at night at first and then by day and night so my actual flying operationally was only for just over three months from the 6th of June until about the, shall we say mid-September.
We always flew together. I flew thirty times with my pilot whose name, we always called the Skip. We never called him any other name. In fact I didn’t know his first name until just a couple of years ago. So he was always known as Skip and shall we say he, I am sure, saved us. I’m sure I wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for his skill and to a certain extent our good fortune.
He, we were being stalked by a German night fighter and the manoeuvre at that time was for the gunners to call out ‘corkscrew’ port or maybe starboard depending on which way we were being stalked by a German night fighter. And we went down to port but of course the night, the German night fighter at that time knew of our manoeuvre and just hung there and waited until we went down and then turned and came up again and there we were, there they were waiting for us. But our pilot didn’t do that. Instead he went down to port and we kept going and we, if you like flew a circle which the plane at which was angled to the, to the ground below and about two minutes later he’d turned and gone down and came up again and two minutes or so later we were back where we started but the night fighter had been put off. We never saw him again. And we got back home.
I think on the next occasion which really sticks in my mind that we did a daylight raid lasting nearly eight hours down to Bordeaux to bomb oil installations to keep the German forces short of oil. But the, when we were first in and were flying at a height of eight or nine thousand feet and we were opposed by predicted flak. In other words the people had to work out where we were going to be and at what height and set their guns and such but our Skipper just took us on the same direction, the same speed and we dropped our bombs but what he had done he had slowly increased our height so from the prediction being made, the guns firing and the time taken for the shells to explode we were about, about a hundred feet higher. We got a lot of damage on the under surface of our plane but nothing serious. That took courage to do that. Most people would have tried to dive out of it and would, in so doing would probably dive into the flak and so and possibly be shot down.
But those are the two occasions. Another occasion we had lost a wing commander and a new man had come in and I think he wasn’t very well liked. He had the idea he gave that he came from a second class public school and shall we say rather talked down to people but he chose to fly with our crew to go Douai to bomb, once again, railway marshalling yards but at this time we had six Lancasters in formation and the wing commander flying in the lead of the first of three and shall we say there was I, a flight sergeant, with him sort of nagging at me cause he didn’t think I was doing a good job but we did get to Beachy Head on time, set off for France, arrived over the French coast in the right place, on time and when we came to do a turn it had to be a large turn because we were flying ahead of the, of the Bomber stream where they were expecting to follow us to well and make a well and truly coordinated attack but halfway through the turn the bomber, bomb aimer said, “I can see the target. “ But I said to the wing commander we haven’t completed our turn. He says, “Take over bomb aimer”. So the bomb aimer took over and guided us to another French town about thirty or forty miles away but the whole bomber stream took no notice of following us and went on to bomb the right target.
Once he’d found he’d bombed the wrong target the wing commander took this formation of six Lancasters to fly around North France, Northern France with a very, very high density of anti-aircraft guns and to look at the target we should have hit and to circle around and see what we should have done and took us then back home. And meanwhile I had logged everything. I had my chart but the, so I was quite happy that I had in a sense I’d done my job but had been ignored by the person making the decisions. So when we got landed, got home I went in to do for briefing I’d got my log and my chart which were taken from me but before we went in his hand went to my collar pulled me back and said this is what to say and to this day the squadron records record that the Pathfinders were late putting down their, their flares and that the visibility was not very, very good but it was good enough for the bomb aimer to see the wrong target so I don’t see how that really fits. However that’s, that’s what happened. So what does a flight sergeant say to a wing commander anyway when he knows he’s making a mess up. So I had to suffer that.
However, we went on and our pilot got us through our tour and immediately after the tour I was commissioned and I went from on from there and of course our crew broke up and went different ways. We had a strong link with each other. A very, very strong link because we were going to either, shall we say, die or live depending on our own particular skills in, in in the crew.
But the crew broke up and I was commissioned and went on to become a staff navigator. Being a staff navigator was one cent higher than being a normal ordinary navigator course. I went and took that course at Shawbury when they were, shall we say, were pioneering polar flying at the time. And after that I became a flying instructor and I had one rather particular task was, just after the war had finished prisoners of war were coming back. Many of them were part of the permanent RAF and they had to be brought up to date with navigation which had taken great strides during the war using radar equipment in particular. Generally speaking the people were very good because they were often a higher rank than me but there was one person, he was a squadron leader and he came in to my class and while I was lecturing he put his legs up and read a novel. I thought if this is what permanent people in the RAF are like I don’t want to know them so when the time came for me to leave the RAF I was offered to stay in a bit longer and consider a permanent commission. Remembering that person indeed certainly clouded my decision not to stay in the RAF.
So I came out to be a civilian with no job, no career of any note to, to, to go back into civilian life. So having been an instructor I thought it wasn’t much of a step to go along and become a school teacher. Instead of instructing shall we say adults I would probably teach young people to help form their lives for the future and so I did and after a very miserable start I became quite competent and eventually ended up as the last eighteen years of my teaching life as a head, Headmaster of a primary school. Now much of my success in that I always feel was my life in the RAF and my special time on operational flying because they had taught me as a young man not to be a middle class prig but to accept people as they are and that helped me in my career because I had an awful lot of contacts with teachers and parents as adults as well as with children. So I always look back upon my air force career and my time in Bomber Command as being, if you like the things that formed me as a person. I grew up very quickly joining the RAF at the age of eighteen.
And that’s virtually what I did. So I’ve been retired from teaching now for over thirty years. I still go back to my [?] school and the youngsters there questioned me about my life, shall we say as a child, in my wartime including my time in the RAF, my time teaching and retirement. And of course so many changes have taken place that this has become a part of their, if you like, history course to be able to talk to somebody. But I don’t just go along and talk to them and tell them. They ask me questions so I have to be prepared just to answer any questions they put to me.
Well here I am now living on my own. My wife died nearly eighteen years ago so I look back on my life in the RAF and Bomber Command with rather great satisfaction if you like. It has really made me as a person.
I do feel about Bomber Command which I am proud to have served my country flying in Bomber Command but I do feel it has had a sad history just after the war. It was influential in a very, very strong way of winning the war and it also it helped us not to lose the war ‘cause I don’t think, I think the bomb - shall we say the dam busters did a wonderful job but I think the most influential raid made by Bomber Command was to Peenemunde when they bombed the research for the German V weapons. V1 the buzz bombs to the V2, the rockets and equally they were shall we say pioneering a very long range gun but when the, shall we say this was the, the place, Peenemunde where the Germans were doing all their research and putting into practice what they thought would win the war. That did actually affect, but I think it so messed up the German, the German shall we say research that there was a delay in the V1s and the V2 weapons being used against this country and nor were they put in numbers that the Germans had anticipated they would use and as the flying bombs came, began to, to fly their unmanned bomb, flying bomb, I think about ten days after, about ten days if memory serves me after the, the invasion of Europe. The, if the German programme had gone as expected they would started four or five months earlier and then they could have put us out of the war before we, before we invaded in Normandy. That could have, that could really have happened. And once the bomb, once the V weapons were being used I can recall many of my operations were against V weapon bomb sites in storage centres. That was part of the programme of Bomber Command in June, July.
I also feel that the, whereas Fighter Command flew a wonderful defensive war and kept us from, shall we say, losing the war, they did it in a defensive way, in a sense I do feel Bomber Command by its aggressive wage of, waging of war did save us from defeat at, at the hands of the V weapons.
But when I go back to my old school and children ask me about what I did in the war. They ask the questions, I give the answers. And one of the questions which always comes up as different group of children I see, meet, each year is was it right for you to kill civilians? Well the answer to that? I did what I was told. I couldn’t choose what I, targets I would take on ‘cause civilians might be killed. That’s one thing. The second thing is they didn’t understand that all wars civilians always suffer anyway but also I wasn’t we were not intent on killing civilians as such. What we were doing at Bomber Command, we were helping to fight a war which we knew that the German people were being led astray to believe that they, they were the master race. That they were superior to everybody. Had, had we lost the war what would the German victors have done to us? Would they allow us as being quite closely related to you might say, in race, to Germany allow us to be also part of that attitude that we were superior to other races. And so that we were really fighting not the people but a very wrong idea of the way the world should be run.
And I say this to the youngsters who, very often I’m talking to a class which is about seventy eight percent children with a background from, from the, that is come from where we might perhaps have called them black children as against white and I would say to them, you are equal in our country and in the sight of God to anybody. You are not an inferior race which you would have been if the Germans had won the war. So you make up your own mind whether killing civilians on the way has ensured, if you like - your future. It’s very difficult to get over, over to the youngsters aged eleven that conception. But I don’t tell them whether I did right or wrong I tell them the circumstances and leave them to make up their own mind.
Now as, as after the war I didn’t, people knew that I had flown in the RAF but I would always hesitate to say I flew in Bomber Command. There were a whole, shall we say generation who grew up thinking that we were civilian killers. I think that has passed now and they realise that the numbers lost, the lives that were lost in Bomber Command, over fifty five thousand people. That was nearly half, nearly fifty percent of people who flew in Bomber Command what a great sacrifice that people flying in Bomber Command made for our victory and have been neglected for so many years.
I suppose I look upon myself - I did nothing heroic. Shall we say I didn’t have, have to bail out? I didn’t, I flew my time in much of the same aircraft on a very little known squadron but at last it has been our, our work and sacrifice has been acknowledged and it was the Bomber Command memorial in, near, it’s at Piccadilly. That is a wonderful memorial and I was there when the Queen opened it in the year of the Olympic Games wasn’t it? And I was privileged to be there and on that occasion the whole royal family were there as well and that was the time when, when final acknowledgement was of Bomber Command was really appreciated.
I’m proud that I flew in Bomber Command so I’m proud of my service in the RAF but just to think I served in the RAF for four and a half years and in just over three months I flew operationally. Makes you think doesn’t it? That the rest of the time I was either in training or helping to train others. But I flew in Bomber Command and I say, I look back, aged nearly ninety two with a great deal of satisfaction but I was one of the many. Now Bomber Command has been accepted for what it really was and did. So many people have died who have never known that Bomber Command was going to be, at last, accepted. I’m the last of my crew to, to be alive and some of those particularly the two Canadians they have died without ever knowing that what they did flying in Bomber Command was, shall we say, fully recognised. I think that’s rather sad but because I’m still alive today I have, I have a bit of notoriety personally for, because I’m still alive. So many other people did what I did and did it better in their time but they have died. I’m still alive. And because there is a scarcity of people who like me are still alive we now have a little bit of notoriety, shall we say, at last.
And I’m also glad that the new, the new Bomber Command in Lincolnshire, the Bomber Command memorial there which is being set up at this time, not yet completely functional. But I’m glad it’s that because whereas the, shall we say the monument there in London, Piccadilly is made of stone - is wonderful. It’s quite emotional to go and see it but it does nothing. It doesn’t move. It just helps the mind remember but to be able to be, help the new Lincolnshire project which is more than just is, is somewhere where people can go and do and take part and look at the archives and I’m so glad to be able to help in that in my own little way.
MJ: On behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre I’d like to thank Vic Farmers. Navigator?
VF: Navigator.
MJ: Navigator, for his interview at his home in Oxted, the date of the 13th of July 2015. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Vic Farmer
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Great Britain. Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Heather Hughes
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-14
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Heather Hughes
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:34:46 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AFarmerV150730
Description
An account of the resource
Vic Farmer volunteered for the Royal Air Force at eighteen and trained as a navigator in South Africa. He describes his experiences of crewing up and serving in 550 squadron, RAF North Killingholme. He saw action on D-Day, and participated in further operations to bomb Paris marshalling yards and Bordeaux. He recalls an incident on an operation when he was outranked and as a result the wrong target was hit. He was commissioned and after further navigator training at RAF Shawbury, became an instructor. After the war, he became a teacher and eventually the head of a primary school. He talks of his feelings about Bomber Command and how veterans have been treated.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France--Paris
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Oxfordshire
South Africa
France
France--Bordeaux (Nouvelle-Aquitaine)
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944-06-07
550 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
crewing up
forced landing
Halifax
Lancaster
memorial
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
perception of bombing war
RAF North Killingholme
RAF Shawbury
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/360/PBarfootW1619.1.jpg
efc64839a2690070e88b5d08e32e5b03
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Barfoot, W
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
William Barfoot seated at RAF Brize Norton
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBarfootW1619
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Description
An account of the resource
William Barfoot in battledress with observer brevet sits on a wooden collapsible chair in front of a concrete hut. He has a whistle attached to his collar and some papers spread across his knees.
The description of this item is partially based on information provided by the donor. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form: no better quality copies are available.
aircrew
observer
RAF Brize Norton
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/387/PBarfootW1647.1.jpg
d68a4b53c48e678644da3a2f0169a185
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Barfoot, W
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Three observers at RAF Brize Norton
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBarfootW1647
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Description
An account of the resource
Group of three observers in front of a concrete hut. Two are standing behind Flying Officer William Barfoot, who is sitting in a collapsible chair with an improvised desk.
The description of this item is partially based on information provided by the donor. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form: no better quality copies are available.
aircrew
observer
RAF Brize Norton
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/845/PWoolgarRLA1601.2.jpg
4c8e1d5ade517b3c7d46b0183020e0d6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/845/PWoolgarRLA1602.2.jpg
1e3c4a89fc59cbff26ab54c664c33c4b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Woolgar, Reg
Reg Woolgar
R L A Woolgar
Jimmy Woolgar
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Bombing, Aerial
Description
An account of the resource
<a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/browse?collection=87">17 items</a>. The collection consists of an oral history <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/2148">interview</a> with air gunner Reginald Woolgar DFC (139398 Royal Air Force), correspondence to his father about him being missing in action and subsequently rescued from the sea, his <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/2205">log book</a>, <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/854">service and release book</a> and nine photographs.<br /><br /> He flew operations as an air gunner with 49 and 192 Squadrons.<br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Reg Woolgar and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle. <br /><br />This collection also contains items concerning John William Wilkinson. Additional information on John William Wilkinson is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/125319/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Woolgar, R
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Requires
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Reg ‘Jimmy’ Woolgar was born and schooled in Hove. He began working life as a valuations assistant and was training to be a surveyor, which was interrupted when, in December 1939, he joined the RAF. Although he had aspirations to become a pilot, he trained as a wireless operator/air gunner instead. His wireless operator training was carried out at the wireless training school, RAF Yatesbury. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/849/PWoolgarRLA1609.2.jpg His air gunnery training on Fairy Battle aircraft was conducted at RAF West Freugh. On 15 November 1940 he was promoted to sergeant and posted to No 10 OTU at RAF Upper Heyford. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/845/PWoolgarRLA1601.2.jpg Initially flying Anson aircraft and then Hampdens with C Flight, he had his first ‘Lucky Jim’ moment, on 6 February 1941, when his Hampden aircraft was forced to crash land in a field near Cottesmore, in Lincolnshire. The aircraft was written off, but he and the pilot survived with minor injuries. At the end of operational training, instead of going directly onto operasations, he spent the next 5 months as a screen operator instructor. Eventually, on 1 September 1941, he was posted to 49 Squadron, Hampdens, at RAF Scampton https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/852 where his very first operational trip (described as a baptism of fire) was to Berlin. With headwinds going out and coming back, and nil visibility, it was likely the crew would have to bail out. Fortunately, the skipper found a break in the clouds and the aircraft landed wheels down in a field near Louth. The aircraft had to be recovered back to base, transported by road, on a low loader. On another occasion, on a mine laying operation to Oslo Fjord, his aircraft was peppered with anti-aircraft fire, it returned to base with 36 bullet holes in the fuselage and mainplane. A bullet had also passed through the upright of his gun sight while he was looking through it, whilst another tore through his flying suit. The nickname ‘Lucky Jim’ was beginning to stick.
In February 1942, on an operation to Manheim, the port engine, hit by flak, cut dead. Despite jettisoning all superfluous weight, which unfortunately included all the navigation equipment, the aircraft rapidly lost height, and the pilot ditched the aircraft in the English Channel. Whilst the crew had struggled to keep the aircraft airborne, (on a single engine), it had steered on a massive curve and unbeknown to them was headed down the English Channel, before it ditched. The crew scrambled out onto the wing and managed to inflate the dingy, then had to cut the cord attaching the dingy to the aircraft using a pair of nail scissors, moments before it sunk. In the water for hours, the crew thought they were drifting near the Yorkshire coast, but were rescued by a motor anti-submarine boat, much to their surprise, near the Isle of Wight.
Operational flying was intense, Reg would feel wound up before take-off and there was much apprehension on the way out to the target. Often, they flew through intense flak that was sometimes so close they could smell it. There was always a sense of sense of relief once they came away from the target. In between operations, each day was treated as it came along with many off-duty hours spent socialising in the local hostelries https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/853
After his first operational tour (he completed two) he was commissioned and became gunnery leader with 192 Squadron in 100 Group.
After the war ended, he signed on for an extra two years and was posted to Palestine as an air movements staff officer. Luck was again on his side when, one day, he was on his way to an Air Priorities Board Meeting at the King David Hotel when the hotel was bombed, resulting in many army and civilian casualties.
After a short tour in Kenya, as Senior Movements Staff Officer, he returned to Palestine flying with 38 Squadron until August 1947. In his flying career he amassed over 1000 flying hours. For services to his country Reg was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/858
He was released from the RAF in September 1947. Initially employed as an assistant valuations officer, he studied to become a Chartered Surveyor and secured a job as a senior valuer with the City of London. He later became the planning valuer of the city. After 14 years he was made a partner at the firm St Quintin Son and Stanley. Reg retired in 1971.
08 December 1939: Joined RAF as a wireless operator/air gunner
28 August 1940: 145, 3 Wing, RAF Yatesbury - Wireless Operator training
29 October 1940 - 15 November 1940: RAF West Freugh, No 4 Bombing and Gunnery School, flying Battle aircraft
November 1940: Promoted to Sergeant
15 November 1940 - 20 August 1941: RAF Upper Heyford, No 10 Operational Training Unit flying Anson and Hampden aircraft
02 September 1941 - 24 March 1942: RAF Scampton, 49 Squadron, flying Hampden aircraft
28 April 1942 - 24 June 1942: 1485 Target Towing and Gunnery Flight flying Whitley and Wellington aircraft
02 July 1942 – 3 July 1942: RAF Manby, Air Gunnery Instructor Course
4 July – 10 July 1942: RAF Scampton, Air Gunnery Instructor flying Manchester and Oxford aircraft
25 July 1942 – 10 August 1942: RAF Wigsley, Air Gunnery Instructor flying Lancaster aircraft
3 October – 27 October 1942: RAF Sutton Bridge flying Wellington and Hampden aircraft
28 October 1942: RAF Sutton Bridge, Gunnery Leader Course
End of 1942: Awarded RAF Commission
09 Nov 1942 – 18 March 1943: RAF Fulbeck flying Manchester aircraft
14 May 1943 – 11 June 1944: RAF Sutton Bridge flying Wellington aircraft
20 June 1944 – 27 July 1945 RAF Foulsham, 192 Squadron flying Halifax and Wellington aircraft
29 April 1946 – 30 August 1946: Palestine, Air Movements Staff Officer
01 September 1946 – 21 January 1947: Kenya, Senior Movements Staff Officer
30 January1947 – 10 June 1947: Ein Shemer, Palestine, 38 Squadron flying Lancaster aircraft
13 July 1947 139398 Flt Lt RLA Woolgar released from Service.
Transcribed document
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Transcription
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David Meikle
Herbert V. Lambourne
John N. G. Tilley
Kenneth S. Campbell Missing, believed killed, March 26TH, 1941. (Kiel raid)
J K Elliot
Frank Baker
Harold Simons
Joe Walton Missing, believed killed, July 1941
Charles Hill
J Payne
Joe Miller
J Arthur Bott
John Wilfred Hall Killed at Lindholme, July 1941. N.F.T.
[inserted] W G. McCormack D.F.M. [/inserted]
Dublin Core
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Title
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No 9 course air gunners
Subject
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World War (1939-1945)
Bombing, Aerial
Description
An account of the resource
Group portrait of 14 aircrew all with air gunner’s brevets formally arranged in three ranks, five seated, the rest standing. The man in the middle of the front row is wearing a peaked cap while the rest are in side caps. The group is in grass yard with two naked trees, outside a camouflaged barrack block. A board is marked 'No 9 Course Air Gunners', captioned 'O.T.U. Upper Heyford, November 1940'. On the reverse names with details of their fate and decoration awarded.
Date
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1940-11
Format
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One b/w photograph
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Photograph
Identifier
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PWoolgarRLA1601
PWoolgarRLA1602
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Temporal Coverage
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1940-11
Contributor
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Cathie Hewitt
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
air gunner
aircrew
bombing
Distinguished Flying Medal
Operational Training Unit
RAF Upper Heyford
shot down
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/151/1580/PGildersleveG1601.1.jpg
962e75a62a1d0544811bf754c89d96c6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/151/1580/AGildersleveG160905.1.mp3
92b3c008a57715600343bf1fbef3cd7c
Dublin Core
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Title
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Gildersleve, Gladys
G Gildersleve
Paul Gildersleve
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. The collections consists of one oral history interview and two photographs all related to Gladys Gildersleve (b. 1924; 2030715 Royal Air Force). She began her training as a Women’s Auxiliary Air Force member at RAF Morecambe. Her first posting was to barrage balloons at Swansea Docks. Gladys eventually re-mustered as an instrument checker and was based at a number of bases including RAF Shenington. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Paul and Gladys Gildersleve and catalogued by IBCC staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-05
Identifier
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Gildersleve
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
PJ: My name is Pete Jones. I am interviewing Gladys Gildersleve who was in the Women’s Auxiliary Air Force. Other people attending are Sandra Jones and her son Paul Gildersleve. It is the 5th of September 2016 and we are in Gladys’ home in Middleton Cheney, Oxfordshire. Thank you Gladys for agreeing to be interviewed for the IBCC. Gladys, tell me about your early years.
GG: Ok. It starts off before the war. I worked in a firm called GC Laboratories and two or three girls got together and said, ‘How about we go and join up?’ One girl wanted me to go in to the Land Army and I said ‘no because I didn’t like the smells.’ I couldn’t stand the smell. So the other girl said, ‘Well I’m going in the WAAF,’ and I said, ‘That sounds like a good idea,’ so we do that and we go to the place to join up. Take your particulars down. ‘You’re fine. You’ll hear from us, go back to work.’ A letter comes. You can’t go because your firm won’t release you. So that was upsetting. A few weeks later the letter came, ‘They’ve changed their minds. You can go.’ So we went up to this place in Edgeware and signed all the forms. They told us when to go, what to do, went back home, packed up, said goodbye to everybody, to work, home, went back ‘Oh it’s the wrong day. Sorry. You have to go home and come back again tomorrow.’ So tomorrow came and we did go and we got taken up to Bridgnorth where we had to collect all our gear, everything I had, coat, they provided underwear, stockings and shoes, everything and then we were joined by the side of a big open land and the mess site was across the other side and this big sergeant said, ‘Once you’ve got your stuff go across to the mess, get something to eat.’ So that’s what we did. We went across and then he shouted at us to ‘Stop!’ That we were walking on hallowed ground apparently. It was the parade ground and we didn’t know it was hallowed and we stood there frozen and then he shouted off, ‘Don’t you dare walk on that again. If I catch you you’ll be on a charge.’ That means we have got to pay.’ And he said ‘You’ve gone so far, carry on.’ Well would you go around if somebody said go across? Anyway, we got something to eat and we did walk all the way back to our billet. The next morning we got sent to Morecambe and it was August ‘42 and the holidaymakers there were having a whale of a time. They lined up along the promenade every morning and I realised why. To watch us learning to march and do our drill and this first day we were marching along and a women touched my arm, she said, ‘The others have gone the other way.’ They’d turned around and gone back and we didn’t hear and we were just [laughs] and I said, ‘Oh we’d better turn around,’ so we turned. The sergeant never came up to us and shouted. And then the next day it was gas capes and you had to fold them right. If you did you pulled the cord and it just dropped down over you but if you didn’t fold it right it didn’t come down and there’s two young girls, silly little things they were, they didn’t fold it right, they had an arm here, it was around their legs, of course we were all having hysterics instead, and we were supposed to be marching at the same time. Then we had to put the gas mask on, the big ones with the big pipe, everyone was blowing raspberries out the side and we’re laughing. The holidaymakers had a whale of a time. They must have, you know, you wouldn’t have known there was a war on at all and we had no lectures, nothing. So we didn’t know what it was all about. We thought it was a laugh you know and we really enjoyed it. And then we had all our injections and everything else and then we got told where we were going to go and you couldn’t choose. Well you could tell her what you wanted to do but they took no notice and they said me and this other girl we were going to be on the balloons. So they sent us to Swansea docks and we, our billet was between Swansea docks and Cardiff docks and the railway run right by the side of our billet so if they decided to bomb there we’d be right in the middle and it was on this great big expanse of land, all black tarmac and black fence up there, not a light to be seen and we got there about mid-day and somebody who’d been allocated as a cook or something was cooking lunch and the sergeant said, ‘Eat your lunch,’ she said, ‘And then we’ll sort out who is going to go on guard.’ She said to us, ‘You two can go two till four. So I thought oh we’d better hurry up and eat our lunch. ‘Not this afternoon,’ she said, ‘It’s tonight.’ The middle of the night. ‘Ooh. I can’t go out in in the middle, never been out in the middle of the night before.’ She said, ‘Well you’ve got to go. You’ve got to do it.’ So we went out and it was pitch black. You couldn’t see a thing. We had a little torch and it just shone a light. We huddled up in a corner and then we saw a light coming across, it was just going across, moving all over the place so we run and hid. We didn’t know we had to challenge them. So we were hiding and it was coming nearer and nearer then this woman called out, ‘Where’s the guard?’ ‘Oh my God, it’s the duty officer.’ This great big tall Italian officer as she bellowed at us. [laugh] ‘Where were you?’ ‘Well we were hiding.’ She said, ‘That’s not what you’re supposed to do. You’re supposed to challenge me.’ Well we didn’t know. We weren’t told. We were just told to go on guard. So, she let us off because it was our first time and then we had to look after the phone and every so often they would ring the phone and say, ‘Check the tension on the cable,’ so this night we went and I climbed up the winch, in the winch to check and I kept saying, ‘There’s nothing on it. It doesn’t say anything. It can’t be right’. So she come and had a look. No. It still said no pressure on it. So we said, ‘Well we’d better have a look at the balloon,’ and it wasn’t there. It had gone and I said, ‘Well somebody’s got to phone and tell them that the balloon’s gone,’ so she lost the toss so she had to tell them. And they said, ‘Never mind dear. We’ve lost a lot tonight. They’ll send a new one tomorrow.’ So the next day we had to pump this balloon up [laugh] and then they decided they’d finished with the balloons. Then I was allocated as an instrument repairer and went to Melksham. It was like being at school ‘cause you sat on long benches and there was all instruments there in pieces and you’d got to learn what the pieces were and where they went and you had exams at the end of each week and you could move up a class. One class two or class two then class one. I got a one at the end so that wasn’t too bad and then we got sent, I came up here to Edgehill from there. There sometime and then another place [unclear] Great Horwood, oh lots of villages all around here, everywhere around here and then we got moved on somewhere else and when the war finished they said we can all go home so we got on our bikes, rode up to Banbury, never got any money so you didn’t have a ticket so you all climbed on the train coming up to London and at one point they put the guard out on the platform, he managed to get back on, and just walked through saying, ‘Behind. Behind. The one behind had got the tickets,’ and you run then we got back and then you got the feeling they’d finished with you. They didn’t know what to do with you. Surplus to requirements. So we got shifted all over the country. We went up to Rutland, Chester and all places like that. As they started to demob you had to go by initial and it took a year for me to get demobbed and they sent you around and you just keep going, you might spend two weeks in one place, just get to know people and you move on and as one lot were moving out they were then moving the next lot in. Then you might end up when you got back and eventually you got out. You had to go to Birmingham then and then we were told we had to send all our gear back. Couldn’t keep anything of it. Your shoes, tights, the skirts, the tops, everything and yet the men got a suit given them for nothing. And that suit they could keep. All they wanted, we felt they wanted to get rid of us. And then we used to have fun when we were on the planes. We had to get in and check the, all their instruments, make sure they were working properly and check their oxygen. Make sure they were all full of oxygen and their bombsight, you had to check that to make sure it was accurate so they would hit the target. Nine times out of ten they didn’t of course and they always said it was our fault. Never pilot error. It was always our fault but it couldn’t be our fault because you wouldn’t dream of signing the book to say you’ve done it unless you’d done it right. But we used to have fun. The men thought it was fun. We were in there working away. Somebody would take the ladder away so you can’t get out. It’s too far to jump down so you wait till they let you out. Another time they started towing the plane. They towed the plane all the way on the other side while we’re still in it so we had to walk all the way back and our bikes weren’t there, they were on top of a Nissen hut so you had to get someone to get it down off the Nissen hut. There was four sections, A B C and D. We was in D over on that side. We had a Nissen hut for us, and the electricians and another group of people, I can’t quite remember who they were and right behind our billet was a five bar gate. You opened that gate in a country lane and it led right into the village of Shenington, [?] house, a big house on the corner and it was full of airmen and WAAF. She used to do jam sandwiches. She cooked breakfast. Where she got it all from we don’t know but we used to nip down there for a bite or one person would go and fetch the lot back and it was great. We had lots of fun, you know. I think that’s about as much as I can remember. Just going from place to place after that until it was time to come home. So whether or not that’ll satisfy you or not I don’t know. If it’s quite, not quite what you wanted to hear.
SJ: How did your parents react when —
GG: Not bothered. They weren’t bothered [laugh]
SJ: No.
GG: No. But when I read out, my twin sister oh she was a brrr, I told her what I was going to do and I said don’t tell anybody but when I got back everybody knew. ‘We know what you’ve done’ [laugh] and I felt as if I was guilty that I could’ve done it without telling anybody. No. They weren’t bothered.
SJ: No.
GG: But no, but it was good.
SJ: So did you have any superstitions or any lucky mascots?
GG: No. No. They weren’t, it was a training airfield. It wasn’t a combat area.
PJ: Operational.
GG: They were just training them but they sent them off on little bombing missions to, you know to learn what they’re doing.
PJ: Yeah.
GG: Because these cocky youngsters come in, think they’ve got smart uniform and got their wings on their shirt and they'd think they were so good and yet some of them were useless. So, but every time a plane came in we had to go out and check it all and if there was anything wrong with the — one of the instruments we used to have to take it out and take it down to our main office where there were people there that would either repair them or give us a new one to put in, so it was all backwards and forwards and there were so many things you forget what you did because it’s all in the back of your mind, it’s gone, and it’s just all the silly things you did. More the fun. It was hard at times and you were at a loose end. There wasn’t anything to do. Especially if you’re in these little towns and nothing going on and just used to get on with each other and make your own fun.
SJ: What did you do in the evenings then?
GG: Well that was just it. There was nothing to do so we’d either sit and chat in our billets or when we had the NAAFI you could go in there because it had reading rooms, games rooms, all sorts. Separate rooms that you could go and sit over there and there was always tea and coffee on the go, you’d help yourself. But they had, they had some shows come and if it was terrible they would all shout out, ‘More.’ You know, they want more but usually it was terrible. [laugh] But when the NAAFI place was built they used to have big bands come and have dances there and that was good. But Saturday nights well you see, we used to go down to Tysoe village and meet up with the soldiers from Cardington. They’d come across, meet in the Castle Pub, have a drink, then all go across to the village hall to a dance. That sort of thing. That was only once a week so the other times there wasn’t really a lot to do especially if you were in one of these out of the way places like down Swansea docks. We never went off the site. There was nowhere to go because you know it was all just bare ground. But we used to get lifts, when we were at Melksham we used to get a lift on anything that was going in to Southampton or somewhere like that. It could be a funeral car, a fire engine, a lorry. Whatever was going and they would stop and give you a lift, there were no buses or anything. And that’s about it. I don’t remember much more.
SJ: So how long were you in?
GG: Four years altogether.
SJ: Yeah.
GG: Eighteen when I went out and twenty two when I came out. I joined in the August ’42 and the war ended in August and I came out in August ’46. So everything was August. The thing is it took a year after the war before I could get demobbed and there was others behind me. My letter was H so you can imagine how many behind me there must have been. So, I don’t know if they did they same for the men or not. Whether they took them by alphabet but they did us but you got the feeling all the time they didn’t know what to do with you. They were trying to get rid of you. Each place you went they were trying to get rid of you as quick as they could, you know. Move you on. ‘Cause there was nothing for us to do. They were gradually taking down all the planes. They were coming out of use and there wasn’t really anything for us to do. It got a bit boring towards the end. You had to make your own fun you know or die of boredom, you know.
SJ: Yeah.
PJ: Yeah. The air balloons then. Were they filled with gas?
GG: The what?
PJ: You know the balloons then. Were they filled—
GG: Yeah.
PJ: With gas or —
GG: No it was a sort of air stuff. You had to pump stuff in to it.
PJ: Yeah.
GG: I don’t know quite what it was. Sometimes it came on a lorry already done which was a better way for us, but we still just had to still connect it to all the gadgets on the ground all the hooks and things. I had my thumb dislocated one time because the wind blows it and you can see the shape of my thumb now. That’s my war wound. Now I’ve got arthritis in that. Had to go to a medical place to have it seen to and they’d had no training these girls. They’d just gone into the Medical Corps and she strapped it up in a sort of elastic bandage so after two weeks it had to come off. Instead of cutting it as you should do she pulled it bit by bit, dislocated it again. So then she had to fetch the MO then. Panic. And he said, ‘These girls have had no training, disgusting. No training. Nothing.’ So he did it but did a different sort of bandage. He said, ‘When it’s time to come off I’ll see to it for you.’ So he did. You just cut down a strip. I kept saying, ‘You’re pulling it out. I can feel it going.’ So now as you see it’s bulging there and it’s twisted. I could claim damages I suppose [laughs] I’ve left it a bit late I think. [laughs]
PJ: Have you stayed in touch with any of your former colleagues or —
GG: No —
PJ: Over the years.
GG: We all went separate ways. I mean the girl I started off with on the balloons I didn’t see her again until I was moving on waiting to be demobbed and I — but by then she’d got her own group of friends there and you can’t just walk in then and that’s how it seemed to be. Depending on your initial you see. The girl I joined up with, I never ever saw her again. I don’t know where she went. [unclear] So really I was on my own right from the start. You get to know somebody and with them for quite some time and then they suddenly move you and you all go in different directions. Even though you’re doing the same job they send you to different places. One we— where was it, Sealand in Chester special [?] for the RAF and then the Poles came there. They, they even printed their own coupons and selling them. They got caught of course. But the way they ate, they used their fingers. They didn’t use knives and forks. So there was a lot of complaining and they moved them into their own section of the place then, oh put me right off them. Perhaps I shouldn’t have been saying that but [laughs] but when you get to my age you don’t care. If it’s there you’ve got to say it. And that’s about it I think. I can’t think of anything else unless you’ve got questions to ask.
SJ: What did you do when you came out of —
GG: I went back to my old job.
SJ: the WAAF.
GG: I went back to my old job. Because it was a reserved occupation they had to keep my job for me, but I changed my job before. I was making little sort of little anode, a piece of metal and you had to put it on a machine [unclear] flange each end that was part, I don’t know what it was part of but it was all —so I went into the office. Taught myself to type. That sort of thing. So I did better then. They had to give me a job so I got this job and I stayed there till I left to have the children and that was it. So that was very lucky really. Yeah. Yeah.
SJ: Anything that you want –
PG: Didn’t you keep in touch with a friend that used to send you Christmas cards or something every year?
GG: Oh I used to, oh Mabel. That’s right. She left — her boyfriend came home early when the war finished and they let her leave to go home to get married. I used to write her Christmas and birthdays. Then one year the card came back ‘unable to deliver’ and I never ever found out what that meant. I never heard from her again. I can’t understand — it sounds a funny thing to say. Could say gone away or something like that but unable to deliver. It sounds strange. That was up in Yorkshire. Then I thought oh perhaps they’d pulled these places down where she lived and she’s gone somewhere else but then her daughter knew me because she’d come to stay with me. I thought well if something happened she could have, she could have let me know. So often now it comes to me I wonder what did happen to her ‘cause I couldn’t understand the unable to deliver. And I checked the address, double-checked and it was the right address and everything, so what it meant I don’t know. So but that’s the only person that I did keep in touch with. I don’t know what happened to the others. Shame really because you get to know people and suddenly they’re gone but, there we are. Not to worry. Too late to worry isn’t it?
SJ: Did you have any experience of bombings?
GG: Pardon.
SJ: Did you have any experience of bombings —
GG: No.
SJ: Where you were stationed?
GG: No. Not in any of them. I think we might have been too far off their map where they wanted to bomb. Here it would be quite some way in. Away from London and the big things. I mean, we were an open target. Sometimes the Lancasters used to come in when they’d been on a raid suddenly they would come in so we would be loaded with Wellington bombers, Lancasters and everything. Yet you’d never see a plane. You used to stand and watch them go, the Lancasters go out on a trip. Count them going out then you’d count them coming back in you know and this horrible feeling of oh you know there’s quite a lot missing, but none of it got bombed around here. Amazing. Don’t well [?] understand it. None of the stations I went to really had anything. So really we didn’t know there was a war on. Some places they never had any, anything at all. So there we are.
PG: Didn’t you have an experience with a V1?
GG: Oh no that was when I came home on leave. Yeah. I came home on leave and I was standing on the corner of the road waiting for my bus. Got as far as Ealing Common waiting for my bus and this thing went over and suddenly it stopped. I didn’t know what it was and the people at the bus stop, they all run. Where they have gone? Somebody come out, ‘Quick. Quick in here.’ I said, ‘Why? What’s up?’ ‘You don’t know where that’s going to land.’ And all of a sudden boom! I thought oh my goodness me whatever is it? She said that’s a V1. A V1 bomber. I’d never heard anything like, had nothing at all down here, you know. It was a bit of a shock. While I was home I could hear a plane so I opened up the bedroom window hanging my head out and there was all Anderson shelters in the garden and this one plane came and he was shooting at every one as he went, you could hear the bullets going. My mother, ‘Shut the window.’ ‘Why? I’m watching the plane.’ And I thought then what miserable rotten devils to go, just to shoot, it would only be women and children in them and all they did going along and shooting at them which I thought was terrible. I mean where I lived we had more bombing than they had around here. Amazed at — and of course a lot of farmers, I think this house where we got all our food stuff they must have had their own farm where they picked their own food, made their own jam, that sort of thing. That’s how they would have been able to do it otherwise I don’t know how they would have got the coupons to get food, but all these airmen, I mean there were masses of us there and sometimes the place would be bulging at the seams with everybody that was in there, and I don’t expect that even one of them should be there. If there was an inspection there’d have been trouble.
SJ: Where was that again?
GG: That was up here. Edgehill. Or Shenington as they called it. They make out they don’t know what you mean when you say Edgehill because it’s Shenington [unclear] you know. I have to try and remember that it’s Shenington. But no just an old couple, a mother and daughter. They did very well. Everybody was very thankful that they were there, otherwise you couldn’t go off in to the mess just when you wanted to. You could only, when it was your lunchtime. That sort of thing. Some of the food was alright and some wasn’t alright [laughs] but there was always the NAAFI to buy somethings so you didn’t worry. We got by. Yes. Yeah.
SJ: Any other stories you can tell us?
GG: Not really, that I can think of [laughs].
PJ: How long were you working on the planes then? What period of time?
GG: Well, when did the balloons finish? I think they finished about ’43 I think. They weren’t long. Weren’t there all that long cause that’s the only place I went to, the balloons. No. So it would have been from then ’43 till ’46 when I came out? Two or three years. Three years in all.
SJ: When you said they lost some balloons –
GG: Yeah.
SJ: Did they just escape?
GG: Oh yes. It’s such a tension on it that the cable snaps and it just goes. A funny thing, I saw something on the telly the other day. A film about the V1 and it’s coming along, zooming along, and it cuts right through a balloon, and the balloon floats — Oh I said, ‘that must be my one.’ [laughs] Now my daughter’s just got a job working at a place and the name of the thing is printed on a balloon. You can see it flying in the town and she tells this manager at her first interview, ‘My mum lost a balloon during the war.’ He said, ‘I hope it doesn’t run in the family.’ [laugh] I said, ‘Fancy telling him.’ They all know about them. I’ve told them all these stories to the children, the grandchildren — and I have a laugh myself sometimes. I can see the funny side of it you know, and the youngsters today they wouldn’t believe that this old lady went doing these sort of things you know. Things that — never ask for a late pass. You’d just go out and when we came back from dances we used to ride our bikes halfway down, pick them put them on our shoulder, walk on the grass behind the guardroom and then get on again the other end and carry on cycling. That would be about midnight. We weren’t even supposed to be out. But [laugh] I think they must have known. They couldn’t possibly not know could they? That happened every week we used to do that, but as I say you remember all the fun bits and all the bad, boring bits are just gone. Just wiped from my mind. It was over seventy years ago. Seventy four years since I joined up. My God. How am I still here? [laugh] I don’t know many of us are left but people are living longer these days aren’t they? Yeah.
PG: Didn’t you have some friends, some girls who did parachute packing?
GG: Oh one girl, yes they all — one girl was a parachute packer and she volunteered to test her one out that she’d packed. Oh my God she was brave. She went up and she did do a jump with it. How lucky it opened up. [laugh] It could have been a disaster. I don’t think I could have done that. That was a responsibility wasn’t it? To do, to do that up. Well ours was just as bad. If our instruments were wrong, our altimeters and things like that they could have been up the creek but, it was like the bombsight because you have to lay down. It was like a thick Perspex there and a light on it and you got elongated cross. You’d got to make sure that lined up exactly otherwise they’d miss their target which they did anyway so I mean, so it didn’t matter but at least we knew it was right before they went so they couldn’t blame us. No. And then there’s — what was that they had on the wing? They called it a pitot-head. Comes out and it’s a long sort of tube thing. I can’t remember what that’s for but you had to make sure that it heated up alright so whether that was to help with frost on the wings or not I’m not sure.
PJ: No.
GG: I can’t remember now. No. I can’t think of anything else now. My brain’s wearing out or mine’s everyone’s tired it’s having a bit of a rest [laugh] is that good bad or indifferent? Is that what you wanted?
PJ: Well thank you Gladys for agreeing to be interviewed by the IBCC. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Gladys Gildersleve
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Pete Jones
Date
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2016-09-05
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00:28:42 audio recording
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eng
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Sound
Identifier
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AGildersleveG160905
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Balloon Command
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Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--Lancashire
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Julie Williams
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Description
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Gladys Gildersleve was working for a laboratory when she decided to join the Women’s Auxiliary Air Force. She began her training at RAF Bridgenorth and at RAF Morecambe. Her first posting was to barrage balloons at Swansea Docks. She eventually re-mustered as an instrument checker and was based at a number of stations including RAF Shenington near Edgehill. She experienced a V-1 bomb when at home on leave. She also recounts an aircraft that strafed near her home.
demobilisation
ground personnel
military living conditions
military service conditions
Navy, Army and Air Force Institute
Nissen hut
RAF Melksham
RAF Morecambe
RAF Shenington
strafing
V-1
V-weapon
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/151/1581/PGildersleveG1701.1.jpg
9ab903593323f01c6ff74aedc2587447
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Gildersleve, Gladys
G Gildersleve
Paul Gildersleve
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. The collections consists of one oral history interview and two photographs all related to Gladys Gildersleve (b. 1924; 2030715 Royal Air Force). She began her training as a Women’s Auxiliary Air Force member at RAF Morecambe. Her first posting was to barrage balloons at Swansea Docks. Gladys eventually re-mustered as an instrument checker and was based at a number of bases including RAF Shenington. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Paul and Gladys Gildersleve and catalogued by IBCC staff.
Date
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2016-09-05
Identifier
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Gildersleve
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gladys Gildersleve
Description
An account of the resource
Portrait of Gladys Gildersleve in Women’s Auxiliary Air Force uniform at RAF Shenington.
Additional information about this item has been kindly provided by the donor.
Format
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One b/w photograph
Identifier
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PGildersleveG1701
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Photograph
ground personnel
RAF Shenington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/2148/WoolgarR [Pesaro].jpg
6696b37cde158c2d6a039b276028b19f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/2148/AWoolgarRLA160614.2.mp3
b9431c15a89852018320c9d130b2f688
Dublin Core
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Title
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Woolgar, Reg
Reg Woolgar
R L A Woolgar
Jimmy Woolgar
Subject
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World War (1939-1945)
Bombing, Aerial
Description
An account of the resource
<a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/browse?collection=87">17 items</a>. The collection consists of an oral history <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/2148">interview</a> with air gunner Reginald Woolgar DFC (139398 Royal Air Force), correspondence to his father about him being missing in action and subsequently rescued from the sea, his <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/2205">log book</a>, <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/854">service and release book</a> and nine photographs.<br /><br /> He flew operations as an air gunner with 49 and 192 Squadrons.<br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Reg Woolgar and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle. <br /><br />This collection also contains items concerning John William Wilkinson. Additional information on John William Wilkinson is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/125319/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Identifier
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Woolgar, R
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-04
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Please scroll down to see all X items in this collection.
Reg ‘Jimmy’ Woolgar was born and schooled in Hove. He began working life as a valuations assistant and was training to be a surveyor, which was interrupted when, in December 1939, he joined the RAF. Although he had aspirations to become a pilot, he trained as a wireless operator/air gunner instead. His wireless operator training was carried out at the wireless training school, RAF Yatesbury. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/849/PWoolgarRLA1609.2.jpg His air gunnery training on Fairy Battle aircraft was conducted at RAF West Freugh. On 15 November 1940 he was promoted to sergeant and posted to No 10 OTU at RAF Upper Heyford. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/845/PWoolgarRLA1601.2.jpg Initially flying Anson aircraft and then Hampdens with C Flight, he had his first ‘Lucky Jim’ moment, on 6 February 1941, when his Hampden aircraft was forced to crash land in a field near Cottesmore, in Lincolnshire. The aircraft was written off, but he and the pilot survived with minor injuries. At the end of operational training, instead of going directly onto operasations, he spent the next 5 months as a screen operator instructor. Eventually, on 1 September 1941, he was posted to 49 Squadron, Hampdens, at RAF Scampton https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/852 where his very first operational trip (described as a baptism of fire) was to Berlin. With headwinds going out and coming back, and nil visibility, it was likely the crew would have to bail out. Fortunately, the skipper found a break in the clouds and the aircraft landed wheels down in a field near Louth. The aircraft had to be recovered back to base, transported by road, on a low loader. On another occasion, on a mine laying operation to Oslo Fjord, his aircraft was peppered with anti-aircraft fire, it returned to base with 36 bullet holes in the fuselage and mainplane. A bullet had also passed through the upright of his gun sight while he was looking through it, whilst another tore through his flying suit. The nickname ‘Lucky Jim’ was beginning to stick.
In February 1942, on an operation to Manheim, the port engine, hit by flak, cut dead. Despite jettisoning all superfluous weight, which unfortunately included all the navigation equipment, the aircraft rapidly lost height, and the pilot ditched the aircraft in the English Channel. Whilst the crew had struggled to keep the aircraft airborne, (on a single engine), it had steered on a massive curve and unbeknown to them was headed down the English Channel, before it ditched. The crew scrambled out onto the wing and managed to inflate the dingy, then had to cut the cord attaching the dingy to the aircraft using a pair of nail scissors, moments before it sunk. In the water for hours, the crew thought they were drifting near the Yorkshire coast, but were rescued by a motor anti-submarine boat, much to their surprise, near the Isle of Wight.
Operational flying was intense, Reg would feel wound up before take-off and there was much apprehension on the way out to the target. Often, they flew through intense flak that was sometimes so close they could smell it. There was always a sense of sense of relief once they came away from the target. In between operations, each day was treated as it came along with many off-duty hours spent socialising in the local hostelries https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/853
After his first operational tour (he completed two) he was commissioned and became gunnery leader with 192 Squadron in 100 Group.
After the war ended, he signed on for an extra two years and was posted to Palestine as an air movements staff officer. Luck was again on his side when, one day, he was on his way to an Air Priorities Board Meeting at the King David Hotel when the hotel was bombed, resulting in many army and civilian casualties.
After a short tour in Kenya, as Senior Movements Staff Officer, he returned to Palestine flying with 38 Squadron until August 1947. In his flying career he amassed over 1000 flying hours. For services to his country Reg was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/858
He was released from the RAF in September 1947. Initially employed as an assistant valuations officer, he studied to become a Chartered Surveyor and secured a job as a senior valuer with the City of London. He later became the planning valuer of the city. After 14 years he was made a partner at the firm St Quintin Son and Stanley. Reg retired in 1971.
08 December 1939: Joined RAF as a wireless operator/air gunner
28 August 1940: 145, 3 Wing, RAF Yatesbury - Wireless Operator training
29 October 1940 - 15 November 1940: RAF West Freugh, No 4 Bombing and Gunnery School, flying Battle aircraft
November 1940: Promoted to Sergeant
15 November 1940 - 20 August 1941: RAF Upper Heyford, No 10 Operational Training Unit flying Anson and Hampden aircraft
02 September 1941 - 24 March 1942: RAF Scampton, 49 Squadron, flying Hampden aircraft
28 April 1942 - 24 June 1942: 1485 Target Towing and Gunnery Flight flying Whitley and Wellington aircraft
02 July 1942 – 3 July 1942: RAF Manby, Air Gunnery Instructor Course
4 July – 10 July 1942: RAF Scampton, Air Gunnery Instructor flying Manchester and Oxford aircraft
25 July 1942 – 10 August 1942: RAF Wigsley, Air Gunnery Instructor flying Lancaster aircraft
3 October – 27 October 1942: RAF Sutton Bridge flying Wellington and Hampden aircraft
28 October 1942: RAF Sutton Bridge, Gunnery Leader Course
End of 1942: Awarded RAF Commission
09 Nov 1942 – 18 March 1943: RAF Fulbeck flying Manchester aircraft
14 May 1943 – 11 June 1944: RAF Sutton Bridge flying Wellington aircraft
20 June 1944 – 27 July 1945 RAF Foulsham, 192 Squadron flying Halifax and Wellington aircraft
29 April 1946 – 30 August 1946: Palestine, Air Movements Staff Officer
01 September 1946 – 21 January 1947: Kenya, Senior Movements Staff Officer
30 January1947 – 10 June 1947: Ein Shemer, Palestine, 38 Squadron flying Lancaster aircraft
13 July 1947 139398 Flt Lt RLA Woolgar released from Service.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
DE: Start the, start the interview.
RJW: On our seventieth wedding anniversary my grandson stood up and said Papa, Reg, Jimmy because they had all three, all three generations there. Sorry. Sorry.
DE: Ok. So this is an interview with Reg Jimmy Woolgar at the International Bomber Command Centre in Riseholme Lincoln. It’s for the IBCC Digital Archive. My name is Dan Ellin. It is the 14th of June 2016. Reg. Jimmy. Just for the start of this tape could you tell me about your early life and your childhood before you joined the RAF.
RJW: Well before I joined the RAF I left school in Hove and I joined the rates department as the junior clerk and it was really the office boy who made the tea but I became a valuations assistant in the valuation department there before the war and started to train as a surveyor and in 1939 on the 8th of December I went to the Queen’s Road Recruiting Office and I joined the RAF and there I was in a few days on my way to Uxbridge with about five or six other guys all from office appointments. When I joined I, like everybody else who wanted to join the RAF, I wanted to be a pilot. Well I actually went to the Queen’s Road office in September and they wrote to me and said, ‘We have an influx of pilot training but we can take you as air crew.’ I went to see them, asked what that meant. They said, ‘Well you will fly as a member of an air crew.’ I said, ‘Well can I ever become a pilot?’ ‘Oh yes,’ they said, ‘Once you’ve trained as air crew you can become a pilot.’ But of course it never happened because it just seemed to be that whenever I, wherever I went I eventually became an instructor and after being trained as instructor they didn’t really want me to be a pilot or anything else so I concentrated on doing wireless operating/air gunnery. That really is what happened to me before the war. Is there anything else you’d like to know?
DE: Well, yeah. What was, what was training like?
RJW: Pardon?
DE: What was training like?
RJW: Training. Ah. Well now we went to Uxbridge for the ab initio course, the square bashing. Famous words which you’ve used, heard before, you know the sergeant who comes in to the billet and says, ‘Anybody here play the piano?’ ‘Oh yes, I play the piano.’ ‘I play the piano.’ ‘Oh well you two go and move the piano from the officer’s mess to the sergeant’s mess.’ Having got all through all that, off we went. First of all we went to Mildenhall doing absolutely nothing because there was a bottleneck of getting to the wireless training school so we spent about three or four weeks at Mildenhall doing guard duty. Sometimes going in the cookhouse even and then we went to a station called North Coates Fitties on the east coast and we, we mainly did guard duty there. We were, it was a fighter squadron and we were sent out to guard the beacons around, around the runway, all that sort of thing. Waste of time but never mind. That took us until the early part of 1940 and then we were posted down to Yatesbury, wireless training course. I think that took, I can’t be absolutely certain, the dates are in my logbook but I think it must have taken us until about April, oh, yes, it took us ‘till about April and then we went to West Freugh on the east coast er west coast of Scotland for gunnery training and low and behold we all became sergeants. I can always remember the advice given to us by a warrant officer, the peacetime warrant officers and people of that ilk they did some, a little bit resent that air crew would automatically become sergeants but they did try to knock us into shape and I remember we had a cockney warrant, station warrant officer who tried to guide us on etiquette in the sergeant’s mess and he said, ‘Ah, er, you will be at liberty to invite ladies to a mess dance but make sure you invite ladies [emphasise] and not ladies.’ And he said, ‘Now you’ve got three stripes, the girls will be chasing you but just be careful who you pick if you marry them,’ and he gave jolly good advice, he said, ‘Take a good look at her mother because what she’s going to be like in twenty to thirty years’ time.’ Anyway, off we went. They sent us on leave and said that we would be, receive instructions for posting and we did. We, we, a new, another bottleneck for OTU so in the meantime we went to Andover. Now, Andover, I was there at the time of Dunkirk. I remember that because going into the local town, cinema and that sort of thing the local army chaps that were coming back from Dunkirk were a bit fed up with the RAF because they hadn’t seen any Spitfires so it wasn’t a very comfortable time but from there we went to OTU. Now that was number 10 OTU at Heyford, Upper Heyford. We had our first real flights. Started off in Ansons, staff pilot taking a delight in trying to do aerobatics in an Anson to see how many guys they could make sick but anyway [laughs] we, we were supposed to crew up but it was a bit of a haphazard thing. You found yourself in one crew one week and another crew the next week. I had my very first Jimmy escape there. Um, it had been snowing and we were grounded and then suddenly there was a break and we were sent off and I was sent off with a New Zealand pilot, Sandy somebody. I can’t remember, and he was a bit dodgy. Anyway, we took off and the cloud base came down, fog or, no, cloud base and I couldn’t get a peep out of the wireless set, I couldn’t get a DCM back to base so we stooged around for a bit and he said over the intercom, ‘Jimmy I’m going to land in a field.’ ‘Oh ok.’ I decided, I came out of the rear upper turret and I crawled back and I sat up behind him. He came down to a field, through a break heading for some trees I thought but he put his wheels down and of course it was a ploughed field underneath the snow. He came in very fast and we went, tipped right over, right over. At the very last moment apparently, I never remember doing this, I leaned over his shoulder and knocked his, the quick release of his harness and he flew out of the cockpit and down. He hit the ground, he broke a rib I think, and the aircraft went over and I shot back, right back to the back bulkhead and I had a bit of a head wound but it wasn’t very much and the aircraft was a right off. Right. It didn’t catch fire thank God. We were called away. When we had the inquest with the CO I got a right rollicking 'cause I couldn’t get through to base on the radio but I couldn’t get anything out of it but I even got a bigger one for releasing his harness and they said, ‘That was, you should never have done that but you saved his life.’ They said that, ‘Had you not done that he would have broken his, he would probably, he probably would have broken his neck or broken his back.’ So it was a good thing that it happened but it shouldn’t have done [laughs]. I had another, I was in another crash there where we ran up behind another aircraft and damaged it and injured the rear gunner but I was at the far end so I was ok. But this seemed to happen to me for some reason or other and I don’t know why, at the end of the course instead of going off on ops with a crew I was what they called screened. I was a screen operator instructor and I flew in Hampdens and Ansons with crews coming through. Just looking after them actually. Making sure that the wireless operators did what they should do or got through if they couldn’t and that sort of thing. I was there for oh far too long. I didn’t arrive on to the squadron, 49 Squadron, until the 1st of September 1941. My very first trip was to Berlin. The very experienced pilot, Pilot Officer Falconer, who was quite elderly, he was twenty six so we called him uncle [laughs]. He eventually, he became a wing commander, he commanded a squadron but he was killed unfortunately. Very nice guy. Anyway, after we went to Berlin and on that occasion it was quite a famous one. Head wind going out, head wind coming back. Ten tenths cloud and nil visibility coming in. Being given the order to go on to 090 and bail out so we got there and Uncle Falconer said to the crew, ‘We may have to bail out chaps.’ So then squeaky voiced me from the back said, ‘Oh skipper, I’ve pulled my chute.’ Actually I’d pulled it on the way out and I was more scared of having a DCO that is, Duty Not Carried Out, DNCO and being responsible for returning than actually taking my chance with the chute so I kept mum, I didn’t say anything. And when I told him I can’t actually repeat for the tape exactly what he said but it wasn’t very polite and I don’t blame him. In actual fact he found a break in the, in the overcast and he landed with wheels down in a field at a place called Withcall. Withcall near Louth and um, er, near Melton Mowbray. It was under some high tension cables and it was so tight they couldn’t fly the aircraft out. They took the wings off and put it on a loader to get it back. That was my first trip. Baptism of fire. Every trip, nearly every trip has an anecdote but the ones that stand out are, we went up to Inverness or somewhere. I can’t remember. It’s in the logbook. Inverness or somewhere like that to do a trip to Oslo Fjord laying mines, being told, ‘Chaps pick the right fjord because if you don’t you’ll come up against a blank face of rock and you won’t be able to turn around.’ Anyway, we did. It was almost daylight all the time. Up we went, down the fjord, laid our mine. Coming back, on the headland, as we passed across the headland em we were fired on. Some light tracer stuff came up. Very small. I said, I was at the rear of course as the wireless op. I said, ‘Oh, let’s go around and shoot them up because there’s other guys behind us.’ And the skipper said, ‘That’s a good idea.’ So we circled around, we came back and all hell let loose. They peppered us. We had thirty six holes on our starboard side wing, starboard fuselage mainplane but it didn’t affect the aircraft. I think the flak was a little bit dodgy but anyway came back all right. As I got out of the aircraft the ground crew came and they said, ‘Hey sarge,’ they said to me, ‘Have you seen your cockpit?’ I said, ‘No, what’s wrong?’ ‘It’s got bullet holes in it.’ ‘It’s got bullet holes in it?’ They said, ‘Yeah.’ And they said, ‘Look your flying suit’s all torn’. And there’s a bullet hole at the back of me and then you know after I’d been sent to recover [laughs]. They next came to me and said, ‘You’re never going to believe this.’ The upright of the gun sight on my VGO twin guns had a bullet hole through it like that. The armourer gave it to me. I had it for many, many, many years. Unfortunately, it was lost but it was, I was proud to be able to show a bullet came out [?] as I was looking through it [laughs] so you know why the name lucky Jim sticks doesn’t it?
DE: Yeah. Definitely yeah.
RJW: Well that was then. We were, er, we tasted one of the first delights of the master searchlight. They introduced a blue central searchlight beam, radar controlled I think and all the other beams came on it and we were over Hamburg and we caught that and we had a hell of a pasting with the flak but old Allsebrook was very good and he got us out of that. We had one or two other things but like everybody else did. You never got, you couldn’t get through trips without having some sort of trouble sort of thing.
DE: Sure, sure.
RJW: Anyway, my last, no, next to last trip of course was by ditching which I’ve written about. Would you like me to — ?
DE: If you could talk about that for the tape that would be wonderful as well. Yes please.
RJW: Oh yes.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: Well here goes. We took off about, I don’t know when it was. We were on Hampden G for George A397. We em, we were going to Mannheim. I think it was our twenty third trip and by this time we were a bit blasé. We thought going to be a piece of cake this. Mannheim. Yeah. That’s alright. So we weren’t really worried about it. The trip out was perfectly alright, over the target there was some flak but it wasn’t heavy flak, it wasn’t very much and we didn’t think that we’d caught any but just as we left the target our port engine cut dead and Ralph wasn’t able to do the relevant, it just stuck there. So we started to lose height. We lost height, we were somewhere about seventeen, eighteen thousand feet and we came down to four thousand eventually. In the process of doing that we got rid of all the heavy stuff we could think of. The guns. The bombsight. Unfortunately, Bob, the navigator, Bob Stanbridge stuck all his nav gear into parachute, one of the parachute bags that he used to take it out there, opened the doors in the navigator’s position, they swing inwards and to get rid of the bomb sight and the nav bag went out as well so we didn’t have any —. Anyway, off we went. Ralph was getting cramp in his leg holding the opposite rudder because of the loss of the port engine. Bob tried to tie the rudder pedal back with a scarf but couldn’t. Then I had a go. That was the scariest moment of all 'cause I had to unplug my intercom and had to crawl underneath in the dark but I did — I did actually manage to tie it up and that lasted for a while. I sent a plain language message out while we were still over France to say that we’d lost our port engine and may have to bail out, and although I was never a good wireless operator and I hated being a wireless operator, that message got through [laughs]. Anyway, eventually the fuel was down to zero and Ralph said, ‘Well, we’re over the sea, we’re going to ditch.’ So by this time of course we’d got all the hatches open because we’d been ready to bail out so all the sea came in. Anyway, he made — he made a good landing on top of the fog to begin with [laughs] but after that he made a jolly good landing and down we went. We scrambled out on to the wing, on to the port wing. The dinghy was supposed to burst out of the engine nacelle because of an immersion plug but of course it didn’t but Bob knew the procedure and with the heel of his flying boot he dug into the port engine nacelle and pulled the plug and up came the dinghy and started to inflate. It didn’t fully inflate but it started to inflate and by this time the four of us were standing on the, on the wing. All our ankles were awash in water. We then saw that the dinghy was attached by a cord disappearing into the engine nacelle and one of us said, ‘Well if the immersion plug didn’t work this won’t work, we’ll be pulled down,’ and Ralph said, I don’t know whether he said, ‘Just a minute chaps,’ but I think he might have done. He undid his flying jacket, went into his tunic pocket, pulled out a little tiny leather case out of which he took a pair of folding nail scissors, he then — he cut the cord, he did the scissors up, put them back in the case, back in to his pocket and he stepped into the dinghy with the rest of us. As we shoved off dear old G for George went down under the waves and there we were. We had to pump the dinghy up with the bellows because it wasn’t fully inflated but we managed alright. We were absolutely enhanced with the rations that were actually sealed in the bottom because there was a notice on it that said “Only to be opened in the presence of an officer” [laughs] so we said, ‘Well good for you Ralph.’ He was a pilot officer. And come daylight, in the far distance we did just spot what we thought were high tension pylons and some cliffs and we thought, well we were heading for Scampton of course, we thought oh well perhaps we’d drifted too far north, over-compensated and we were off Yorkshire, Whitby or somewhere like that. Anyway, not long after that that disappeared, we drifted around. We used the coloured dye, fluorescent dye in to the sea to identify ourselves and paddled and paddled around and eventually came back and found we were at the same spot again. The sun came out in the morning. It was very cold and very choppy. It was the 14th / 15th of February. It was cold. Anyway, we suddenly saw a school of porpoise and that was light relief until one of the crew said, ‘Yeah it’s all very well but what happens if one of these guys comes up underneath the dinghy?’ he said. Furious paddling away. We weren’t really gloomy, I don’t know why. I seem to think oh yeah, well we may get picked up but for no particular reason. We did see an aircraft which we thought was a Beaufighter in the distance but it didn’t see us. We sent the flares up but it didn’t do any good and then quite late in the afternoon we heard an aircraft engine and out came a Walrus. Circled round, waggled it’s wings, stayed with us, only a short time and off it went and it was almost two hours later when a motor anti-submarine boat pulled up and dragged us aboard. Eh, first question was, ‘Where are we?’ And somebody said, ‘We’re off St Catherine’s Point.’ ‘Oh, St Catherine’s Point. Where’s that?’ ‘The Isle of Wight.’ [laughs] And instead of being off Yorkshire we’d taken a huge curve and we’d been flying down the channel so luckily our fuel had run out when it did and we didn’t go too far out but the other thing was that the navy crew told us, ‘You’re dead lucky because you’re near a minefield. If you’d been in a minefield we wouldn’t have come out.’ So it was jolly good. We um, we survived all that, all three of us. Jack had frostbite. I remember cuddling his feet under my jacket actually ‘cause he was very cold. He got frostbite because he’d been sitting in the tin and he’d had the hatch open all the way but that was the only casualty that we had but it was quite a week because if I remember rightly at the beginning of the week we went to Essen, which was never much of a cup of tea that place, it was always pretty hot. And in the middle of the week we went on the Channel Dash. The Channel Dash was when the Scharnhorst and the Gneisenau left Brest and that was quite curious because we’d been standing by for several days and we’d been given a sector. Our sector was off somewhere near Le Havre. If they ever got that far we were told that we would have to go out. On this particular morning after a while on standby we were stood down from the Channel Dash and the weather wasn’t very good but our bomb load was changed from armour piercing to GP bombs and we were sent off on a night flying test possibly for ops that night. We were recalled while we were actually in the air and sent off but not to Le Havre but off the coast of Holland because the ships had gone that far and been undetected and off we went. We didn’t see the ships but we saw, we think, an armed merchantman or something or other which was firing away but we didn’t really get near. The weather was so bad we really couldn’t see. What we did see, we saw a Wellington and we didn’t know that Wellingtons were on the trip but later we discovered that there was an armed, an unmarked Wellington which the Germans had captured and they were using it as an escort for the ships and it was coming in and some crews actually did encounter it firing you know. We only just saw it. We didn’t get through [?]. Anyway, it was uneventful for us in actual fact. I think we lost four crews out of the twelve that were sent up. I think I’m right about that but it’s in our journal. One more trip we did together as a crew and then later I’ll talk, I’ll talk about my rear gunner.
DE: Ok, yeah, yeah.
RJW: Our pilot, J F Allsebrook was posted away, the crew was split up. I think Bob Stanbridge was also posted but myself and Jack Wilkinson, Jack Wilkinson, he was the rear gunner we were left hanging around to be crewed up as wanted. Anyway, we started to crew up with Reg Worthy. A very competent pilot and we were very happy with that and in March we were crewed to go with him on ops. Unfortunately I had contracted sinusitis. Oh I remember. I’ll talk about that later, I’d contracted sinusitis and at times I got it very badly. It was very painful so I went up in the morning to sick call [?] — sick bay to try to get some inhalations to help me and they tested me and grounded me. They said, ‘You’re not flying like that. You won’t be able to hear anyway.’ [laughs] I protested a lot because I wanted to do the trip but no, no and when I broke the news to Jack he was extremely despondent. He didn’t want to go. He wanted to opt out. ‘I don’t want to go without you Jimmy because you’re lucky.’ I persuaded him that he’d be alright and, because I was replaced by McGrenery [?] who was a very competent WOP/AG who’d flown with me on a number of occasion and he was a hell of a nice guy. Sadly, the trip was to Essen and they were caught by an ace night fighter pilot called Reinhold Knacke on the way back, off the coast of Holland, just on the border and they were shot down. All killed. Reg Worthy and McGrenery were buried in Holland and Jack was washed up off the coast of Denmark. It’s quite amazing actually. And he’s buried in Stavanger. So there’s sad [?]. I had this sinus trouble. It was because much earlier on, on a trip to Brest we were in the target area and we lost oxygen and when you lose oxygen you dive down so we did a very steep dive very quickly and apparently my left frontal sinus became perforated. This bedevilled me a lot. In fact the problem was if you went through the medics with it too much you got yourself grounded and of course you lost your rank as a sergeant, you lost everything. So you didn’t sing too much about it. I remember that after the, after ops I was posted to a couple of training units. One at Wigsley. I’ve forgotten the name of the other just for the moment but it’s in my logbook, anyway, not far out of Lincoln and I can remember later on my wife came out to live in Lincoln. I remember we sought a doctor up in Lincoln in private practice to try and get some treatment for this sinusitis and you’re leaping right now to the end of the war. At the end of the war I was posted to air ministry, movement’s branch and I still had sinus problems and so I thought I’d seek the advice of the air ministry doctor. I got a good guy there. His advice was, ‘Well we can drill, we can drill a hole through the roof of your mouth for drainage but I don’t advise it. It may not be successful but if you had a couple of years in a warm dry climate that would do you good,’ and as a result of that I had a medical post for an extended period of two year service and I went, of all places, to Palestine of course but after that to Kenya but I’ll talk about that later on.
DE: Sure, yeah.
RJW: Anyway, coming back to 1942, during the ops period the intruders started following aircraft coming in and landing and so air crew were billeted out. We were sent to small holdings. I was sent to a small holding, an absolutely delightful elderly couple who had strawberry fields there. Very nice indeed. I spent one night there. I told them, ‘Take the payment but I’m not going to be here. If anybody wants to know, oh yes I’m here but I’ve gone to town.’ And with a friend of mine, Mick Hamnett from 83 Squadron, we found a couple of rooms in the City of Lincoln pub in, in the centre of Lincoln and whenever possible we actually spent the night there. It was quite a pub. It was run by a lady by the name of Dorothy Scott whose husband, Lionel I think his name was, was a nav, was away in the RAF as a navigator. Anyway, it was an air crew haunt. At the back of the pub she had converted what had been a store room into a very cosy bar and that was where air crew from various squadrons accumulated. In fact at the end of 1942, towards the end of 1942 my wife came up and we, we lived there, lived out there. Unofficially of course. And one night while we were out there was an incendiary raid on Lincoln, huge chandelier flares and the City of Lincoln was hit with a fire bomb, particularly our bedroom but the local fire brigade did far more damage with their water then the actual firebomb. Anyway, coming back to the ops period, I’m sure that you’ve heard all these stories before but of course we were bounded with rumours and things like that. The first thing we heard was that oh the vicar of Scampton did a hasty retreat when war started because he was a Nazi spy [laughs]. The other story was of the policeman who was standing at the erm, at the Stonebow one evening and the aircraft were taking off, going off and he made a remark to a passer-by, ‘It’s going to be pretty hot in Berlin tonight.’ It so happened that they were going to Berlin and he was removed. But the other story, well whether that was true or not I don’t know but the other tale which is perfectly true. There was a hotel by the Stonebow called the Saracen’s Head which we called the Snake Pit for some reason. Very good. Good food. You could get a steak there. Very nice. There was a barmaid there by the name of Mary. She was a New Zealander and she was older than any of us. She was probably late thirties, early forties. She was a charming lady and she had an amazing memory and she was our local post box because we’d been to OTUs either to Upper Heyford or Cottesmore. We’d got pals on that and then we were posted to squadrons around, different squadrons around Lincoln and you wanted to know how your pals got on and you could, you could tell her. She knew, you know, you know that George Smith or somebody would say, ‘Did he get back? He was on 44 on Waddington.’ ‘Oh yes he’s alright.’ All this sort of thing you see and the story goes and I think this is in one of Gibson’s books that at the time of the 617 training at Scampton Mary was lifted out of the bar and sent on some paid leave down at Devon. I don’t know whether you’ve heard that story before. Yes. It’s written down somewhere but I can tell you that that wasn’t a rumour. That was true. The other delightful story is really good. In those days there was a lady entertainer by the name of Phyllis Dixie. She was a fan dancer. Probably the first stripper in England right, and she was performing at the Theatre Royal. Some lads, some air gunners got hold of a twelve volt acc and an aldis lamp, got themselves up into the Gods. The end of the act was the dear lady removed her fans strategically as the curtains closed and they shone the aldis lamp [laughs] which I gather was true. Anyway, going on from Scampton and Lincoln I was posted, I was sent on first of all air gunner instructor’s course at Manby. Came back from there and instructed at Wigsley and then sent to Sutton Bridge on a gunnery leader’s course. I did rather well on the course simply because I think I was able to drink as much beer as the course instructor [laughs] and we, I got an, I got an A which meant I was a gunnery leader A and when I came back to base the gunnery leader said, ‘Oh you can’t be a, you can’t be a gunnery leader A, you can’t be a gunnery leader as a sergeant. You’d better apply for a commission. Fill these forms in.’ So, this is true. It was incredible. I filled the forms in and I said something about, ‘Oh I can’t remember,’ and he said, ‘Oh don’t worry about it they don’t check anything,’ he said, you know, I thought this was a bit casual. Anyway, anyway I did remember what was necessary and my interview, however I was, I had a sort of an office, well not really an office, a place, kept stores [?] and things like that where I operated from. Schedules of flying and things like that looking after air gunners as an instructor and one day a little guy came in, in to my office with some papers and in some flying overalls and one of the epaulettes was flying down like that so I didn’t know what he was actually and he started asking me questions about the, about the commission you know like, ‘What’s your father do?’ And that sort of question, you know. Anyway I suddenly looked at his other shoulder and he was a wing commander and it was the famous Gus Walker and this was before he lost his arm. I was on the station when some incendiary bombs were, no photoflashes or something, something went wrong with an aircraft out in dispersal and he rushed out from flying control in a van to try and get the crew out and the bombs went up and he lost his arm. He was a hell of a nice guy. So informal it wasn’t true. I think he became an air marshal, air chief marshal or something. A big rugby referee. And I think that’s about all I can think of that of that era but then when I went to, when I, yes when I was commissioned, commissioned, gosh when was it? Probably the end of ‘42 beginning of ’43, almost immediately I was sent back to Sutton Bridge as an instructor instructing gunnery leaders and then we stayed there. Oh well that was quite good. We had a number of Polish pilots who were really very good pilots and we did a lot of low level flying quite illegally. There was one stretch where a road and the canal and a railway was spanned by high tension cables and if you felt like it they’d fly underneath them if they could and pray they weren’t found out. But these guys were really, really low level and we used to, we had a front, there was a guy in the front, we were flying Wellingtons mainly, sometimes Hampdens but mainly Wellingtons and put a guy in the front turret and aim for a group of trees you know [laughs]. Dear me. Those were the days. And then we moved station from there up to Catfoss and there when I was at Catfoss my pilot, old pilot Ralph Allsebrook came back, landed one day and said, ‘Jimmy, I’ve joined 617 Squadron. It’s a special duties squadron.’ We didn’t know, I didn’t know anything about the, we didn’t know about, it was before the dam raids but we didn’t know what they were doing but he said, ‘I’d like you to be in the crew.’ So I said, ‘Yes. Good. Fine.’ I was a flying officer by that time and so I said, ‘How do you go about it?’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Leave it to me, I’ll push the buttons and see the CO.’ Well he did but they were adamant that I wouldn’t go. He said, ‘No, you can’t go. You’re an instructor, a trained instructor here. We want you as an instructor and,’ they said, ‘In any case Trevor Roper is the gunnery leader of 49 Squadron. They don’t need two gunnery leaders. So I didn’t go. Ralph wasn’t on the dam raid because I don’t think he was finished training, whatever it was but he wasn’t on it but much later on he was on another raid, I think it was the Kiel Canal and many of the aircraft were lost including him. It was bad weather I think mainly. So I was lucky again, I didn’t join them. But I did get a bit fed up with not, not being allowed to go back on ops and we had a guy, one of our instructor’s, fellow instructors, a chap called Griffiths I remember, he went to, left us and went to Bomber Command headquarters I think it was. Either to Group, no, it was Bomber Command headquarters that’s right and he came back, he visited the squadron one day and I said, you know, ‘Could you get me a squadron?’ You know. And he said, ‘You want to do a second tour Jimmy?’ I said, ‘Yeah, I wouldn’t mind doing a second tour.’ He said, ‘Yeah, leave it with me.’ So I got posted to 192 Squadron at Foulsham. I got, I got a rollicking from the CO at the, at Catfoss because of the gunnery wing, CO of the gunnery wing. He eventually found out that I’d, I’d wangled it through Griffiths you see but anyway I went. I arrived on the squadron which was fairly newly formed. It had been a flight before. I can’t, off the back of my head I can’t tell you the details of that but it was a flight and it had become a special duty squadron. It was doing radar investigation. We carried special operators. They were civilians dressed in RAF uniform just in case they were prisoners of war and at the same time David Donaldson joined the squadron. A hell of a nice guy. And it was a very happy squadron. We shared it with, I can’t remember the actual number of the squadron, six something, six hundred and something Australian squadron shared the station with us at Foulsham. A bit primitive but it was alright and I had about fifty gunners. We had two flights of Halifax 3s and a flight of Wellingtons and we also had some Mosquitos and a couple of Lightnings and we would fly with main force, carrying bombs of course. Not all the time but we did carry bombs and we were endeavouring, or the special duties operators were endeavouring to discover radar frequencies and wireless frequencies on which the enemy were operating. Early warning systems and the fighter aircraft they were using and that sort of thing. It was quite interesting. All highly secretive. They had a lot of gear set up in the centre of the fuselage and it was all screened off with canvas. You couldn’t get at it and you couldn’t get any gen out of them about what happened, but it was pretty good. We initially we flew as a crew. The leaders David Donaldson, Roy Kendrick the navigation leader, Churchill, he told me his name was Churchill actually, he was the signals leader I remember that. Anyway, and Hank Cooper who was the head of the special, the special duties guys and anyway, and myself as gunnery leader and 100 Group put a stop to that because they decided that if they lost the aircraft they lost all the leaders so we were “invited”, inverted commas to occasionally fly with a crew that might have been a bit dodgy to try and put a finger on if there was a weakness. So from flying with the very best pilot on the squadron suddenly found yourselves with the worst one but it didn’t amount to anything. It was ok. I didn’t have any scary times. My logbook shows the trips I took. We did the normal things with the main force. I didn’t do any Berlin ones. A bit late in the day for that I think but they were the ordinary trips that everybody else was doing. Oh well, there were occasions. We did stooge off from main stream. I think the theory, the theory was that if, they didn’t mind if we attracted the odd fighter so they could find out what they were operating on. Now look, here’s is a really good story. We had on the squadron a pilot by the name of H Preston [?] who was quite a joker. I flew with him on a trip and we got diverted on one occasion to a station down in 3 Group. Stirlings I think. And we had the usual eggs and bacon breakfast and all that sort of thing and we wanted to get back to base in the very early morning and when we got out to the aircraft we had quite a lot of air crew on the station walking around it because we had antennae sticking out all over the place, you see. So Hayter-Preston was asked about a particular thing that was coming out of the back and he said, ‘Oh well,’ he said, ‘That’s marmalade.’ They said, ‘What?’ ‘Well haven’t you got that? They said, ‘No, he said, ‘What does it do?’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘If a fighter comes up behind you and that’s turned on, it stops their engine.’ ‘Oh,’ he said. Anyway, off we went back to base and went through briefing and about half way through the morning a loud shout from the CO’s office, ‘Hayter-Preston’s crew to my office immediately.’ Off we trot to his office. David Donaldson said, ‘HP, what’s all this thing you’ve been talking about down at,’ wherever we were.’ ‘I don’t know sir.’ He said, ‘I’ve had Group on to me.’ He said, ‘Crews down there are on to their CO, been on to their Group, been on to 100 Group.’ He said, ‘They might have even got the Bomber Command, I don’t know, but they all want marmalade.’ See. ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘I was pulling their leg.’ [laughter] Anyway, we walked out of the CO’s office, walking off. David sticks his head out of the door, ‘HP. Why marmalade?’ He said, ‘Well I thought I’d be topical because we’ve been doing jamming.’ [laughs] You know.
DE: Of course. Yeah.
RJW: I did find, I must say I found my second tour very much easier than my first tour. Mind you I was privileged I suppose, in actual fact. I recognise that but it was a time when all the heavies were going. The raids were very heavy indeed but I didn’t, I didn’t seem to run into any trouble at all. Anyway, we were, we were flying on the very last trip. I flew on the very last trip to a place called Flensburg which was very near to the something lunars, is it? I can’t remember the name. The place where the armistice was signed on the Danish peninsula on the night before. The idea was to make sure they signed it. We were one of the last aircraft to return and there’s always been a bit of a fight as to who was the last aircraft over the target in the war. All I can say we might have been one of them. [laughs] Anyway, war ended and we started having, we started taking station personnel on tours. Flying, flying over the cities and back again. We did two or three trips. We landed over there at some of the stations. Went to Northern Germany and I don’t know, somewhere in Denmark I think in actual fact. We were taking people and coming back. Anyway, by about the middle of, probably a bit later then by the middle ‘45, July maybe, something. I don’t know. We were being posted to various parts and we were asked what would we to do. Anything we’d particularly to do before we were demobbed and so I said I’d like to be a, what do they call them, Queen’s courier, you know, King’s courier. That’s right. Thought that would be interesting. No. No. Can’t do that. Eventually I got sent to Air Ministry in High Holborn in the movements branch. It was at the time when there was some big food crisis going on and lots of VIPs were going backwards and forwards to America and we were finding aircraft from Blackbushe to get there. We were dodging around all over the place setting up aircraft, setting up things. Anyway we, I was there for a while and I was conscious of the fact that my sinus was still with me so I thought I’d take the opportunity to get the, unless I’ve already said this.
DE: Well you said you’d come back to it so, yeah.
RJW: Oh I see. I’d take the opportunity to get the air ministry doctor people to say what I could do about it and one of them suggested that they could drill a hole through the roof of the mouth which was painful and not necessarily successful and he did suggest a warm dry climate would probably heal the perforation. Anyway, eventually I signed on for an extra two years and I was posted overseas. Of all places my initial posting was to Palestine. There I was, there I was air movement’s staff officer, they called me and I was secretary and chairman of the air priorities board. Because there was a lack of civilian passenger aircraft we were providing passages through UK for the army, navy, air force and the other government people. The Air Priorities Board would look at applications and give them the priorities as they needed them and that was the job that I was doing. I remember I was, we had our officer’s mess and the hospital overlooking the mass cityscape [?]. The whole city was out of bounds to us which meant of course we went there [laughs]. At various times we had to be armed and it was quite, quite a time in actual fact but the one big thing that did happen we had a number of atrocities by the Stern gang and the Ernham vi [?] Lohamei. They were trying to get rid of the British. Didn’t seem to be any trouble between the Arabs and the Jews. It was the Jews and ourselves and they were pretty aggressive. Anyway, on one, we had our Air Priorities Board at army headquarters which was in the King David Hotel and one day I was being driven up there to an Air Priorities Board meeting and there was a loud bang and big piles of smoke went up and my driver said, ‘I think we’ll turn back sir.’ I said, ‘Yes, I think we will.’ And of course it was the King David Hotel that was bombed, sent up and a lot of army people were killed, and civilian people. Great tragedy actually because so I understand and read that the Jewish guys that did it they stuck bombs in milk churns and they actually ‘phoned and told them that there was bombs there but they said ha ha you know, took no notice of it. Very bad. Anyway, after a while I angled for a posting to Kenya. My brother was there. What had happened to him was he had joined the war, joined the RAF before the war and he was a fitter 2E. He’d been to St Athan’s and he, early in the war he was posted to the Far East. The ship was torpedoed off Mombasa and he got ashore and he was sent to Eastleigh there and he stayed there throughout the war. He married there, English girl there and so he was there and after the war he joined an aircraft company. East African Airways I think but he was a, he became a senior engineer, became chief engineer of a Safari Airways eventually. So I angled for a posting there and I got it. They called me SMSO Senior Movement Staff Officer. I knew nothing about, I knew about air movements, I knew nothing about road and rail. I signed an awful lot of documents [laughs] but I, you know, had no training for it at all. It was, it was a very nice posting. A very easy posting. Originally, we were billeted out in hotels but there was a housing shortage there and all that sort of thing and they thought as an example we ought to have an officer’s mess so an older hotel we took over we used it as headquarters and we had an officer’s mess set up and I can remember we had a very easy going AOC who was a non-flyer. Actually a peacetime guy but a nice guy, very easy going and he never seemed, never seemed to send for you in his office, he came to see you and one day he came to my office and he said, ‘Woolgar I’ve a job for you.’ ‘Yes sir.’ ‘I’m going to make you the mess secretary.’ I thought, ‘Well yes sir but you see I do have to go to Cairo once a month for conferences, air conferences and I also have to visit stations around, you know, Aden, Eritrea and places like that periodically. I am away from base quite a bit.’ ‘Oh, oh alright, I’ll think about it.’ So comes back the next day and he said, ‘Jerry Dawkins is mad with you, Woolgar.’ I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘Cause I’ve made him the secretary of the mess,’ you see, ‘But I’m going to make you the PMC.’ So I was the president of the mess committee and I knew nothing. I really didn’t know anything, you know. There was much older people than me, senior to me to do it but anyway they all dodged it and I couldn’t dodge it the truth was but it was interesting because it was in the days they did a lot of entertaining and this AOC he entertained the army guy, the naval guy and on one occasion the Aga Khan. I met, I met a lot of people. I don’t know whether I should put this on the tape but Mrs AOC was a pain in the head.
DE: Right.
RJW: The flowers were never right, or she sat in a draught, or the meat was tough, ‘Flight Lieutenant I didn’t like –’ [laughs].
DE: Oh dear. Oh dear.
RJW: But you know, you know I was only in my, I was in my twenties, middle twenties and I always thought it was good because it taught me a lot. It gave me experience which I never would have had otherwise. Anyway, eventually I went to Ein Shemer I thought I’d like to do a bit more flying. I went up to Ein Shemer in Palestine to join number 38 Squadron. I was the gunnery leader come armament officer, come radar oh everything. Everybody was leaving and they said, ‘You can do this.’ ‘You can do that.’ And a bit of a mixture I think but the main role of the squadron was finding illegal immigrant ships. Illegal ships were probably like what’s happening now but these ships were coming with Jewish people from the Balkans you know and from the middle of Europe and they were coming in to land in Palestine because the intake was on quotas and the idea was that 38 Squadron should locate them by radar on patrols and then get the navy to intercept them and when we did find them the navy used to miss them and they landed and the army picked them up. They put them in detention centres, that sort of thing, for a while but that is, that is what we were doing and I was there until about August, August 1947 and then I came home. Do you want to hear what happened to me after that?
DE: Yes, please, yeah, yeah.
RJW: Well I came back to the Hove Corporation. They’d promoted me to become the assistant valuation officer. I wasn’t qualified. Two hundred and fifty pounds a year. God. [laughs] Salary. And I realised I had to become qualified quickly. There were two exams. The Chartered, Chartered Auctioneers and Estates Agent’s Institute and the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors, so I got my head down and fortunately both organisations and others I believe, they introduced special war service conditions. I was able to take the direct final which was good. It was a three year course but I did it in eighteen months. Ah yes. I put my family, my wife, my daughter through hell because we didn’t do, I didn’t go out, I didn’t do anything. I just studied because I realised that I wouldn’t get anywhere unless I did and having passed and become a chartered surveyor I marched off the council and said ah you know and they said, ‘Ah well yes, we don’t think you’ll be any more service to us as a chartered surveyor than you were before Mr Woolgar.’ Twenty five pounds a year increase in your salary and we’ll give you a grant of twenty five pounds towards the cost of your studies. Well that prompted me to search for another job and I was very fortunate. I went to, I secured the job of the senior, a senior valuer in the city planning department of the City of London. So from knocking the hell out of Germany I came back to rebuilding the fire bombed city which was very, very interesting. It was a fantastic job in actual fact. I dealt with Barbican, St Paul’s area, all the war damaged areas. I was fourteen years there. I — I eventually I was deputy and the boss left and I got his job. For five years I was the planning valuer of the city and it was really good but that’s a whole book.
DE: Yeah, I can imagine.
RJW: About what happened. Various things, lots of public enquiries, you had some very famous people of course and QC’s and things like that and we had a New Zealander who was the city planning officer called Meland[?] and he was a very informal guy. Not a bit like the city fathers were and his famous words were, he was under cross examination by a QC at a public enquiry and he was asked why it was necessary to compulsorily acquire a group of buildings to put a road through and he said, ‘Well you see the bombs didn’t always drop in the right places.’ [laughs] You know. Anyway, after, after fourteen years I was poached by a firm by the name of St Quintin Son and Stanley to become a partner there and to be responsible for all their planning work and that was very good, very interesting because I, having negotiated with the partners as the valuer for the city I was now negotiating with my deputy who had come up on the opposite side. He often said, ‘Yeah but Jimmy you said, so and so'. I said 'Oh well yeah' [laughs]. But that was, I’ve had a very, very interesting life really. The city was full of tradition. Full of everything. That’s a whole book really. Having dealt with Barbican, the redevelopment of Barbican, the city —
DE: Yes.
RJW: I was now dealing on behalf of developers for developing other parts of the city. The idea, the main idea the city leased most of its land out on ninety nine year building leases by tender. So the developers all had to make a tender, ground rent condition and the design of the building and that sort of thing. That’s really the way it worked and from time to time there were planning enquiries and I was instructed sometimes by clients as a valuer, as a planning valuer to deal with various appeals for land, on land that they wanted to develop which the city didn’t want them to and or they were local protests and got myself in the witness box and highly cross examined by very clever QCs but also roamed around the country because we had a lot of clients in the city that were elsewhere in the country. We acted for the Bank of England, we acted for the Stock Exchange and the, and quite a number of the banks, Midland Bank and Lloyds, people like that and so it was, it was all done at a high level. It’s kind of amusing some of the things that I was asked to do which I knew nothing about [laughs] and I always remember a firm Denis firm [?], they were in the sand and gravel business they always wanted to extract sand and gravel from the best agricultural land by rivers you see and there was always objection to it. Anyway, I fought one or two appeals for them quite successfully, fortunately, and one day the chairman asked me to value their mineral reserves and so, ‘I can’t do that, I’m not the minerals man. I know nothing about it.’ ‘Oh that doesn’t matter,’ he said, ‘I just want, I just want you to value it for me.’ I said, ‘Well I don’t know how to value it.’ ‘You’ll find a way.’ I particularly wanted to do it and I got the impression that we might lose them as a client if you know, if it didn’t [?]. My junior partner and I we put our heads together and somehow or other we found a way and he said, ‘Ah, it doesn’t matter. Nobody else will challenge it because they don’t know the way either.’ [laughs] Anyway, we, what did we do? Well leisurely [?] we, during that time the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors celebrated its hundredth year. I had a bit of a role in that as chairman of one of the committees that dealt with it which was very interesting. Oh yes. I was, I was picked up by a building society and became a non-executive director. It was called The Planet, and over the years, I joined them about 1963 I suppose, as soon as I became a partner of St Quentin and over the years we merged with the Magnet Building Society, that’s right and then we took over a midland society that had called itself the Town and Country Building Society so we then adopted that name and eventually, for the last three years I became chairman of that. I had the most interesting time because we had overseas conferences. Notably one in Washington which was extremely good and oh and Cannes. They really looked after themselves these that was the international thing you see.
DE: Wonderful.
RJW: Very nice, very pleasant and during all this period we had various dinners in the Mansion House, dinners in the Guildhall and in 1971 St Quentin firm celebrated it’s sesquicentennial which is their hundred and fiftieth year.
DE: Thank you for telling me.
RJW: Yes. Right. So by that time we were three joint level senior partners right and we split up the duties of what we were going to do. We had a year. I got the job of having the dinner in the Guildhall. I was manager, because the city surveyor was a friend of mine he managed to get us, we were the first outside body to have a dinner in the Guildhall and we had it and got the governor of the Bank of England as a principal guest, Lord Donaldson, the Master of the Rolls, Lady Donaldson his wife who was to become, he was the sheriff at the time and it was a pretty high ranking do. It was very good but I’m telling you the story because it’s kind of amusing. We had a chap in the firm who looked after all those sort of things you know. He was very good. He got the nuts and bolts done for us. So I said to him, ‘I think you’d better go tell the police up at John Street Police Station that we’ve got some VIPs coming to the Guildhall on this particular date because they might want to take some precautions. So he takes the guest list up, goes up to John Street. He sees a cockney desk sergeant and this desk sergeant looks at this list and he says, I’ve forgotten his name now, the governor of the Bank of England, ‘Oh no he don’t rate.’ Master of the Rolls. ‘Oh no he don’t rate.’ Lord something, I don’t know and he went down and at the bottom it had Her Majesty’s Band of the Royal Irish Guard. ‘Oh my Gawd,’ he said, ‘George, got the Irish Guards coming. Full emergency.’ And because the Irish guards, it was at the times of the troubles and because the Irish Guards were coming they had all sorts of precautions. These chaps had to come in individually in civvies and all that sort of thing you know, by themselves and yeah. I thought that was rather amusing.
DE: Crikey.
RJW: Anyway, I retired in 1971, no 1973 that’s right. 1993 at the age of seventy three, got it right. We spent a lot of time cruising. We like cruising. We went on quite a few cruises. We got, we had a place in Majorca, an apartment there. A little place on the coast which was very nice. We spent quite a bit of time out there. That’s really it. Just got older. A bit more infirm, you know. The wheels don’t grind as well as they used to. I hope I haven’t bored you.
DE: No. It’s been absolutely wonderful. There’s —
RJW: I haven’t given you an opportunity to ask any questions.
DE: Well, I’ve as you’ve seen, I’ve jotted some questions down. I mean, again they’re quite, quite broad questions. What, what was it like flying in a Hampden?
RJW: Well you see, strangely enough there was no comparison was there because I’d flown in an Anson which was alright but the next type aircraft you flew in was a Hampden so it was, it was alright. Probably thought all flying was like that but for the wireless operator, rear gunner it was a bit dicey I think. People don’t really know this, you have a wireless set in front of you and what they called a scarff ring with twin VGO guns with pans of ammunition on them, right and a cupola which closes down over the top of it over the guns but in order to operate the guns the cupola has to be back which means when you’re over the other side you’re in the open air and you were standing up to be vigilant. Well I mean you couldn’t see sitting down. You wanted a turret standing up and eventually you have an electric motor on it but originally there wasn’t. It was [unclear]. There was a heating pipe came off the starboard engine I think, exhaust or something. Unfortunately it used to burn the living daylights out of you down on the ground and it was ice cold when you got up top [laughs] but you know. So it wasn’t that comfortable and the other position, the rear gunner was in a belly thing. A blister underneath and that was very, very difficult. You were hunched up, you know, you would get cramp in it. It wasn’t very nice but you know other than that it was alright although I must admit that when I mention to people, RAF guys, I was in a Hampden they say, ‘You were in a Hampden?’ They say, ‘You flew in Hampdens and you’re still alive.’ [laughs] No, no, no. They weren’t, they weren’t that bad really. I think our pilot like any, Ralph, he was quite happy with it. I don’t know whether the navigator was. Sorry.
DE: No. No. That’s, that’s wonderful. So what was, what was your favourite aircraft to fly in?
RJW: Sorry.
DE: What was your favourite to fly in?
RJW: The —
DE: What aircraft was your favourite to fly in?
RJW: The other aircraft.
DE: Yeah. What other aircraft?
RJW: Oh well I flew in Halifax 3s. Wellingtons. I think I flew in a Mosquito once or twice. Ansons. Passenger in a Tiger Moth. That sort of thing, you know. Oh and Lancaster, Manchester. Manchester and Lancaster yes but I didn’t do any ops in a Manchester or Lancaster. The Manchester was the forerunner as, you know about that. Yes. Yes. We had them on, they were introduced on 49 Squadron in about, I think about September 1942, something like that. One of the early ones and then fairly quickly replaced by the Lancasters. Oh the Lancaster were marvellous. I flew in the Lancasters of course in Ein Shemer. They were Lancasters. Yeah.
DE: I see, right, yeah.
RJW: They were good. We had, at Ein Shemer I’ve got to tell you one of the duties there was to provide an airborne lifeboat at Malta so we had a little jolly there for three weeks and so. A couple of aircraft with airborne lifeboats stationed at Valetta. You were on twenty four hours standby. Then twenty four hours down the pub [laughs] that was quite good and we did one, we did one exercise, the exercise was that we were taken out by the navy, cast adrift in a dinghy and the other crew had to home on it and drop the airborne lifeboat and the crew in the dinghy had to get in to it and sail it back in to Valetta harbour. We were the crew in the dinghy. We got told off for eating all the rations [laughs], but you know it was fun. It was quite good. Malta was nice too in those days. Post war you see.
DE: What was –?
RJW: Oh and Cyprus. That was another place we had to go to. We went to Cyprus. Yes. Sorry.
DE: What was, what was it like, what was the difference between being a sergeant and becoming an officer?
RJW: Oh well. It was quite good. It was more comfortable. The sergeant’s mess was very good. The food was always good. I never grumbled about the food. I think the air crew seemed to get additional rations or something. It all went in altogether but somebody once told me you get more dairy products because as air crew or something like that. I don’t know. But being an officer obviously was more comfortable. You didn’t have to make your bed [laughs]. You had a batwoman, batman or batwoman. You know a WAAF who did it for you. Cleaned your shoes that sort of thing. The chores. You had more chores done for you I found, but yes it was it was comfortable. Flying. Right. Oh I forgot to tell you an incident which is recorded in David Donaldson’s obituary. We were flying on patrols to locate the launching pads of the V2. In fact, we saw, I was with David Donaldson, we saw the first one go up and we got a fix on it and that is quite interesting because we told the special operator and he got his head down and we tried to get a lot of information out of him when we got back as to what he found. We got nothing out of him of course but of course what we did eventually find out and this is public knowledge now it wasn’t radar controlled. It was clockwork controlled but Churchill insisted that the patrols continued so even after they found out we were still going up and down on the line and on one occasion, daylight. It was on daylight a couple of, I don’t know what they were, I can’t remember, mix them up, I can’t remember what the aircraft were. A couple of German fighters. I can’t remember what they were now, a couple of German fighters came up, come up and we were just about to take evasive action when they tucked them in, they tucked themselves in the wing and the pilot went like that.
DE: Waved at you.
RJW: Waved at David. David. You know. Like that. Like that and then they peeled away and off they went. This was over Holland and they were quite friendly. This would have been, oh I don’t know, probably March, April something like that 1945. And do you know I remember that so well for years and years and years and I wonder sometimes did that really happen or did I dream it? And then in David Donaldson’s obituary it was mentioned and I thought goodness that is true, it did really happen. I meant, I should have told you before.
DE: No. That’s, that’s wonderful. What was, what was David like?
RJW: Yeah. Actually of course they’d, if they’d, if they’d have split up you know they would have, they would have had us you know, in fact.
DE: Sure.
RJW: Yeah. Yeah.
DE: What was David like?
RJW: Sorry?
DE: What was David Donaldson like?
RJW: Oh lovely. He was a hell of a nice guy. Easy going. He was a good CO. Firm, right. Never panicked. He was a solicitor by profession and he was very calm. We did the first FIDO landing at Foulsham. We went to Gardenia [?] and did our stuff there and incidentally on the way back, was it Balcom [?] Island, the Swedish island on the Baltic, fired various tracer bullets up in a V sign [laughs]. Nobody went near of course. Anyway, when we got back it was fog and David said, ‘Well we’ve got an option of landing on FIDO or being diverted.’ He said, you know, he said, ‘What do you want to do chaps? Do you want me to land or go somewhere else for your eggs and bacon.’ ‘Oh no David,’ you know and he did a perfect landing. Real, you know. The risk of FIDO was that you veered off it but, perfect. Yeah. He was like that. He said, ‘What do you want to do?’ [laughs]
DE: Wonderful. Yeah. So when you saw these two fighters —
RJW: Yeah.
DE: Were you mid-upper upper or were you the rear gunner?
RJW: Sorry?
DE: Were you mid-upper gunner or the rear gunner? When you saw the two fighters.
RJW: Yes.
DE: Were you the mid-upper gunner or the rear gunner?
RJW: I was in the mid upper.
DE: Ah huh.
RJW: Yeah.
DE: Was that your –?
RJW: I was, yeah because I, the mid upper was the controller, in other words we used to take evasive action. If you were in daylight you take evasive action and once you had come back you’d take control. You would tell him corkscrew right, corkscrew left because the pilot can’t see.
DE: No.
RJW: They can’t see. They come in on a curve of pursuit like that and you’d corkscrew in, down and roll and up the other way you see, but if they split up either side you’d had it.
DE: Yeah. Did you did you ever fire your guns in anger?
RJW: Hmmn?
DE: Did you ever shoot at a fighter?
RJW: Ever see a fighter?
DE: No. Did you ever shoot at one?
RJW: Oh yes.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: At night time. Well I hoped it was a fighter [laughs]. No. Once or twice you know you saw the thing come out of, but never, I never had a sustained fight. Never had something come in two or three times but I can’t remember. Not on the Halifax. Never had anything on the Halifax or the Hampden. Fired the guns several times on the Hampden but I can’t remember exactly when they were. Sorry about that.
DE: That’s quite alright. Yeah. Yeah. Did you, which did you like better the night ops or daylight ops?
RJW: Oh we didn’t do much daylight. We did very little daylight. We did some mining in daylight but it was nearly all night ops. We always thought daylight was a bit scary but [laughs] but no I suppose the scariness really was in the middle of the flak. Then you really, in a Hampden you could hear it, you could smell it and you could see it. Puffs of puffs you know if you got there. If you were — Essen and Hamburg they were, they were the places that you got, and of course Berlin but I only, I only did one trip to Berlin. My first one. But that wasn’t very good because it was covered in cloud anyway. If you, when you, when we went to France, if we were bombing France if you couldn’t see the target, initially anyway, you had to bring your bombs back and that’s recorded quite a bit.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: By the way have you got “The Hampden File?”
DE: Yes.
RJW: Harry Moyle?
DE: No. Yes. We’ve got a copy of that.
RJW: That’s very good. Have you got, “Beware of the Dog”?
DE: I don’t know about that one.
RJW: 49 Squadron history. The whole history of 49 Squadron written by John Ward and Ted Catchart. It was actually published by Ted Catchart. If you get in touch with Alan Parr, you know Alan. He’ll tell you where and how you can get a copy of it. You should really have a copy of that.
DE: Yes.
RJW: Because that details everything.
DE: Yeah. Wonderful. I will do. Thank you.
RJW: Yes. It’s called, that’s our crest you see.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: Cave Canem.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: So —
DE: Yeah. I’ll make sure we get a copy for the library.
RJW: Yeah.
DE: Yes.
RJW: Yeah. And the “Bomber Command Diaries.” You’ve got those.
DE: Got those. Yeah.
RJW: Yeah. I’ve got all those.
DE: They’re worth, worth a bit as well, they are as well. How how did you cope with flying nights?
RJW: How did I cope?
DE: Yeah. Flying nights. What —?
RJW: How?
DE: Flying operations at night how, how —
RJW: Finding them?
DE: Yeah. How did you, how did you cope, you know with interrupted sleep patterns and —?
RJW: I’m not quite with you sorry.
DE: No. Flying operations at night —
RJW: At night time.
DE: Yeah. Your sleep was interrupted.
RJW: Oh sleep.
DE: Yeah how, how did you, how did you —?
RJW: Oh well yes you went to briefing in the morning if ops were on. No not briefing. You’d do a bit of exercise and that. Go to the flight and then you’d have an early briefing and then you’d have a rest, have your eggs and bacon and then night time you kept awake. There were tablets they used to give you to keep awake. I can’t remember the name of them now but they didn’t do much good I don't think. And then of course after de-briefing when you came back, eggs and bacon and you had a long sleep. Sometimes you were on the next night but not very often that happened. Not in my day. It did later on of course.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: It did later on.
DE: Did you, did you take tablets to keep you awake?
RJW: Yes.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: I can’t remember the names now.
DE: Wakey wakey tablets.
RJW: Yeah. I can’t remember what they were. Caffeine. Yeah I think it was —
DE: Yeah.
RJW: Something like that. You could, if you wanted them you could have them but I can’t remember the name of them.
DE: Was it, was it Benzedrine?
RJW: Yeah. Yeah but I never found. You were wound up. Let’s put it, let’s be honest about it. Everybody was. You were apprehensive.
DE: Yes.
RJW: Ok. You knew the target. You kitted up. You went out. You were taken out to the aircraft and you fiddled around with all your gear. You had to make sure everything was ok and eventually you took off. Sometimes you often, sometimes you took off in twilight so you could see the setting sun as it were, you know. See Lincoln Cathedral. And because you were in the rear you were looking west you were seeing some of the light and ok you got a bit of jitters maybe you know. A bit. Apprehension more than anything else but you had to be very alert. Very alert. You had to be watching all the time and you reported back anything you see. Getting over the target, doing the bombing run. That was a bit of a wait you know. Flying steady, straight and steady and hearing the navigator or the bomb aimer going to the skipper. Everybody else was quiet. You could see the activity going on but if there was cloud below or the flashes coming up and everything else. If you were near flak as I said you could smell it and see it and all that sort of thing. Got away from the target. There was always a sense of relief once you come away from the target but of course it was just as dangerous coming away. You couldn’t — you couldn't relax or you shouldn’t relax, let’s put it that way. Probably that’s what did happen. You just had to be on your toes all the time but on the way back over the sea, over the North Sea coming back you were a bit relaxed then. Coming in to land of course you had to be very careful. You could have intruders, you know. You really, you couldn’t sit down. You couldn’t take a rest. And you know there were times and I’m sure others have told you this, you had a very dicey trip and you say, ‘If I get back I’m not going to come again.’ [laughs] Why come back? If I get out of this one that’s it, but you did, you know. You didn’t, you didn’t think much about, you didn’t think too much about it on the ground. At least I didn’t. You didn’t dwell about it. You didn’t think. You got wound up for ops. Then they were scrubbed so you were off to the pub you know it’s not oh, everything goes and you just, you just tended to live for that night, that night. You were in the pub with your pals drinking away and you didn’t give many thoughts to the fact that you would be doing the same thing tomorrow. At least I didn’t and I don’t think many other people did either. Some might have, but I didn’t. You just treated each day as it came along. You got scared, of course you got scared you know, got scared out of your life when you were in the dinghy but you thought, oh well, you know, something will happen. I’ll get out of it. Eventually you did. I don’t know but the greatest thing [?] was though, to be honest was to see your pals go although because in the main you didn’t know whether they were killed or not. They didn’t return. They were missing. Right. Failed to return. And there was always the hope that they’d be prisoners of war or they’d landed somewhere else but it, it didn’t sink in. It wasn’t like that, being in the army and seeing the person next to you killed. That didn’t happen unless your own aircraft, you could see an aircraft gosh I can’t remember the number of lucky breaks I had. Yes. On the, on 49 Squadron when I first joined Allsebrook I was a bit concerned and this is not against the guy at all but it is recorded somewhere this happened. He came to the squadron. He had flown into a balloon barrage under training and he was the only one that got out. On the first trip with him he was very keen, they’d made him the photographic, he wasn’t the, he wasn’t the station fellow, he was some sort of, something to do with photography and he wanted to hold the aircraft straight and level over the target to take the photographs [laughs]. So you know that was my first trip or second trip, I can’t remember which and I got a bit, a bit concerned about it and there was a sergeant pilot, or flight sergeant pilot that I’d been drinking with or knew quite well and he wanted a rear gunner and I thought, he wanted a WOP/AG, I thought. Well ok I’ll go and see if I can get switched into his crew and I went to see Domestra [?] who was our flight commander, Squadron Leader Domestra and he he said, ‘Oh no, I’ve done the crew schedules for the night,’ he said, ‘Come and see me tomorrow.’ His name was Walker this chap. He took off behind us. Engine cut. Went straight in. The bombs went up. Killed them all. I thought, I didn’t know it was him at the time. I saw it. When I got back we said, ‘Who was it that went, that went in?’ It was him. I thought oh my God, you know. Strange isn’t it? I must have somehow had a lucky penny. Oh yes and you will have heard this story and Eric will have told you. Others will. We had, the CO was called Stubbs. Wing Commander Stubbs. One day after briefing for ops, we were going on ops. ‘All the NCO’s will remain behind,’ remain behind. We got a real right rollicking about our form of dress, not wearing regulation boots or shoes. All sorts of things you know. Slovenly behaviour. Then he said, famous words, ‘Just remember the only reason you’ve got three stripes on your arm is to save you from the salt mines in case you are taken prisoner of war.’ Have you heard that? Oh yes. Yes. Yes. He said that. He said that and he got the name of Salt Mine Sam. Sam Stubbs. That is recorded somewhere but Eric Cook he was with me. I was on the squadron when Eric Cook was there you see and but he famously used to quote that quite often actually but yeah and it’s quite well known. There was a guy that was, I don’t know what his name was now but he was, he was an honourable bloke, honourable, he was a sergeant pilot and he was a bloke, he was an odd bloke, he refused to take a commission. I can’t remember his name but he was some sort of landed gentry of some sort and he was able to talk in high places as you did and we got a very meagre, half-hearted well it wasn’t an apology it was some sort of, you know it wasn’t really meant sort of thing you know. Sorry about that.
DE: No. That’s wonderful. I’m going to, I think I’m going to draw the interview to a close because you’ve been talking for nearly two hours.
RJW: Oh gosh. Have I?
DE: Yeah. That’s —
RJW: Have I really?
DE: Yes. Yeah.
RJW: I’m sorry.
DE: No, it’s –
RJW: I’ve probably bored you stiff.
DE: No. It’s absolutely marvellous and I’ve said nothing on the tape so it’s fantastic.
RJW: Eh?
DE: I’ve not spoken at all. It’s all been you so —
RJW: Do you, it’s funny everything else is going but that memory.
DE: It certainly is. Yeah. It’s fantastic. Yeah. Well I’m going to –
RJW: And while I’ve been talking to you Dan I’ve been living it visually.
DE: I could tell. Yeah.
RJW: I can see it.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: I can see the incidents right there.
DE: Yeah.
RJW: As you know.
DE: It’s been an absolute pleasure.
RJW: I didn’t realise, I didn’t realise it was —
DE: Two hours look. So I shall, I shall press pause and stop it. Thank you very, very much. That’s absolutely wonderful.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Reg Woolgar
Description
An account of the resource
Reg Woolgar was born in Hove. He volunteered for the Royal Air Force in December 1939 and trained as a wireless operator/air gunner. He flew Hampdens with 49 Squadron. His aircraft was damaged by anti-aircraft fire on a mine laying operation to Oslo Fjord, including a bullet that passed through his gun sight. He recounts ditching a Hampden in the English Channel and being picked up by the Royal Navy off the Isle of Wight. He describes evenings out in Lincoln at the Saracen’s Head. After his first tour he was commissioned and became gunnery leader with 192 Squadron in 100 Group. Reg Woolgar was posted overseas in 1945 and recounts a bomb exploding near the King David Hotel, in Jerusalem. He also recounts tales of his time in Kenya and provides details of his career outside the Royal Air Force, as a planner and valuer for the city of London. He retired in 1971.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dan Ellin
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-14
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Chris Cann
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
02:00:47 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AWoolgarRLA160614
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Lincoln
England--Norfolk
England--Oxfordshire
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Essen
Germany--Mannheim
Middle East--Jerusalem
Middle East--Palestine
Germany
Germany--Kiel Canal
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-09-01
1942
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
10 OTU
100 Group
192 Squadron
49 Squadron
617 Squadron
83 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
ditching
entertainment
fear
FIDO
final resting place
Gneisenau
Goldfish Club
Hampden
killed in action
mine laying
missing in action
Operational Training Unit
RAF Foulsham
RAF Scampton
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Yatesbury
Scharnhorst
searchlight
training
Walrus
Wellington
wireless operator / air gunner
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/2205/LWoolgarRLA139398v1.2.pdf
35b154fb1d680686ee063c2241368776
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Woolgar, Reg
Reg Woolgar
R L A Woolgar
Jimmy Woolgar
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Bombing, Aerial
Description
An account of the resource
<a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/browse?collection=87">17 items</a>. The collection consists of an oral history <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/2148">interview</a> with air gunner Reginald Woolgar DFC (139398 Royal Air Force), correspondence to his father about him being missing in action and subsequently rescued from the sea, his <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/2205">log book</a>, <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/854">service and release book</a> and nine photographs.<br /><br /> He flew operations as an air gunner with 49 and 192 Squadrons.<br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Reg Woolgar and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle. <br /><br />This collection also contains items concerning John William Wilkinson. Additional information on John William Wilkinson is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/125319/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Woolgar, R
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Requires
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Please scroll down to see all X items in this collection.
Reg ‘Jimmy’ Woolgar was born and schooled in Hove. He began working life as a valuations assistant and was training to be a surveyor, which was interrupted when, in December 1939, he joined the RAF. Although he had aspirations to become a pilot, he trained as a wireless operator/air gunner instead. His wireless operator training was carried out at the wireless training school, RAF Yatesbury. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/849/PWoolgarRLA1609.2.jpg His air gunnery training on Fairy Battle aircraft was conducted at RAF West Freugh. On 15 November 1940 he was promoted to sergeant and posted to No 10 OTU at RAF Upper Heyford. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/87/845/PWoolgarRLA1601.2.jpg Initially flying Anson aircraft and then Hampdens with C Flight, he had his first ‘Lucky Jim’ moment, on 6 February 1941, when his Hampden aircraft was forced to crash land in a field near Cottesmore, in Lincolnshire. The aircraft was written off, but he and the pilot survived with minor injuries. At the end of operational training, instead of going directly onto operasations, he spent the next 5 months as a screen operator instructor. Eventually, on 1 September 1941, he was posted to 49 Squadron, Hampdens, at RAF Scampton https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/852 where his very first operational trip (described as a baptism of fire) was to Berlin. With headwinds going out and coming back, and nil visibility, it was likely the crew would have to bail out. Fortunately, the skipper found a break in the clouds and the aircraft landed wheels down in a field near Louth. The aircraft had to be recovered back to base, transported by road, on a low loader. On another occasion, on a mine laying operation to Oslo Fjord, his aircraft was peppered with anti-aircraft fire, it returned to base with 36 bullet holes in the fuselage and mainplane. A bullet had also passed through the upright of his gun sight while he was looking through it, whilst another tore through his flying suit. The nickname ‘Lucky Jim’ was beginning to stick.
In February 1942, on an operation to Manheim, the port engine, hit by flak, cut dead. Despite jettisoning all superfluous weight, which unfortunately included all the navigation equipment, the aircraft rapidly lost height, and the pilot ditched the aircraft in the English Channel. Whilst the crew had struggled to keep the aircraft airborne, (on a single engine), it had steered on a massive curve and unbeknown to them was headed down the English Channel, before it ditched. The crew scrambled out onto the wing and managed to inflate the dingy, then had to cut the cord attaching the dingy to the aircraft using a pair of nail scissors, moments before it sunk. In the water for hours, the crew thought they were drifting near the Yorkshire coast, but were rescued by a motor anti-submarine boat, much to their surprise, near the Isle of Wight.
Operational flying was intense, Reg would feel wound up before take-off and there was much apprehension on the way out to the target. Often, they flew through intense flak that was sometimes so close they could smell it. There was always a sense of sense of relief once they came away from the target. In between operations, each day was treated as it came along with many off-duty hours spent socialising in the local hostelries https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/853
After his first operational tour (he completed two) he was commissioned and became gunnery leader with 192 Squadron in 100 Group.
After the war ended, he signed on for an extra two years and was posted to Palestine as an air movements staff officer. Luck was again on his side when, one day, he was on his way to an Air Priorities Board Meeting at the King David Hotel when the hotel was bombed, resulting in many army and civilian casualties.
After a short tour in Kenya, as Senior Movements Staff Officer, he returned to Palestine flying with 38 Squadron until August 1947. In his flying career he amassed over 1000 flying hours. For services to his country Reg was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/858
He was released from the RAF in September 1947. Initially employed as an assistant valuations officer, he studied to become a Chartered Surveyor and secured a job as a senior valuer with the City of London. He later became the planning valuer of the city. After 14 years he was made a partner at the firm St Quintin Son and Stanley. Reg retired in 1971.
08 December 1939: Joined RAF as a wireless operator/air gunner
28 August 1940: 145, 3 Wing, RAF Yatesbury - Wireless Operator training
29 October 1940 - 15 November 1940: RAF West Freugh, No 4 Bombing and Gunnery School, flying Battle aircraft
November 1940: Promoted to Sergeant
15 November 1940 - 20 August 1941: RAF Upper Heyford, No 10 Operational Training Unit flying Anson and Hampden aircraft
02 September 1941 - 24 March 1942: RAF Scampton, 49 Squadron, flying Hampden aircraft
28 April 1942 - 24 June 1942: 1485 Target Towing and Gunnery Flight flying Whitley and Wellington aircraft
02 July 1942 – 3 July 1942: RAF Manby, Air Gunnery Instructor Course
4 July – 10 July 1942: RAF Scampton, Air Gunnery Instructor flying Manchester and Oxford aircraft
25 July 1942 – 10 August 1942: RAF Wigsley, Air Gunnery Instructor flying Lancaster aircraft
3 October – 27 October 1942: RAF Sutton Bridge flying Wellington and Hampden aircraft
28 October 1942: RAF Sutton Bridge, Gunnery Leader Course
End of 1942: Awarded RAF Commission
09 Nov 1942 – 18 March 1943: RAF Fulbeck flying Manchester aircraft
14 May 1943 – 11 June 1944: RAF Sutton Bridge flying Wellington aircraft
20 June 1944 – 27 July 1945 RAF Foulsham, 192 Squadron flying Halifax and Wellington aircraft
29 April 1946 – 30 August 1946: Palestine, Air Movements Staff Officer
01 September 1946 – 21 January 1947: Kenya, Senior Movements Staff Officer
30 January1947 – 10 June 1947: Ein Shemer, Palestine, 38 Squadron flying Lancaster aircraft
13 July 1947 139398 Flt Lt RLA Woolgar released from Service.
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Reg Woolgar's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Observer's and air gunner's flying log book for Flight Lieutenant Reg Woolgar from 29 November 1940 to 21 July 1947. Detailing training schedule, instructional duties and operations flown. Served at RAF Yatesbury, RAF West Freugh, RAF Upper Heyford, RAF Weston, RAF Peterborough, RAF Scampton, RAF Barrow, RAF Manby, RAF Wigsley, RAF Sutton Bridge, RAF Fulbeck, RAF Catfoss, RAF Foulsham, Levant AHQ, Nairobi AHQ and RAF Ein Shemer. Aircraft flown were Dominie I, Fairey Battle, Anson, Hampden, Hereford, Whitley, Wellington, Manchester, Lancaster Mk 1, Mk 3, Mk 7, Oxford, B17, Master, Martinet, Halifax Mk 3, Tiger Moth, York, Dakota, Lodestar, Hudson and Argus. He carried out a total of 43 operations on two tours with 49 and 192 Squadrons as a wireless operator / air gunner on the following targets in France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Poland and Sweden: Aachen, battleships in Channel, Berlin, Bremen, Brest, Cologne, Emden, Essen, Frankfurt, Fresians, Halse, Hamburg, Kassel, Kiel Bay, Le Havre, Lorient, Mannheim, Helsingborg, Oslo Fjord, Rostock, Wilhelmshaven, Flensburg, Frankfurt, Gdynia, Mainz, Munster, S.D. operations, S.D. patrol, St Leu, Stade, Stuttgart, Walcheren and Wiesbaden. His pilots on operations were Pilot Officer Falconer, Pilot Officer Allsebrook, Sergeant Davis, Pilot Officer Ellis, Pilot Officer Hazelhurst, Pilot Officer Thomsett, Wing Commander David Donaldson, Flight Lieutenant Hayter-Preston, Flight Lieutenant Stephens, Flight Lieutenant Ford and Squadron Leader Fawkes. Includes notes on crash landings and forced landings, ditching off the Isle of Wight, infra-red trials and a Cook’s tour in the Ruhr Hamburg area. Reg was assessed as having exceptional night vision, had proficiency record above average and received air officer commanding commendation on second tour.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Kenya
Norway
Poland
Scotland
Sweden
Middle East--Palestine
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Oslofjorden
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
Europe--Frisian Islands
France--Brest
France--Creil
France--Le Havre
France--Lorient
Germany--Aachen
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Emden (Lower Saxony)
Germany--Essen
Germany--Flensburg
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Kassel
Germany--Mainz (Rhineland-Palatinate)
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Rostock
Germany--Stade (Lower Saxony)
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Wiesbaden
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Netherlands--Walcheren
Norway--Halse
Poland--Gdynia
Scotland--Wigtownshire
Sweden--Helsingborg
Netherlands
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Atlantic Ocean--Kiel Bay
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-09-02
1941-09-03
1941-09-06
1941-09-07
1941-09-08
1941-09-09
1941-09-12
1941-09-13
1941-09-16
1941-09-17
1941-09-28
1941-09-29
1941-09-30
1941-10-01
1941-01-13
1941-01-14
1941-11-07
1941-11-08
1941-11-09
1941-11-10
1941-11-23
1941-11-23
1941-11-26
1941-11-27
1941-11-30
1941-12-01
1941-12-07
1941-12-08
1941-12-16
1941-12-17
1942-01-14
1942-01-15
1942-01-17
1942-01-18
1942-01-25
1942-01-26
1942-02-07
1942-02-10
1942-02-11
1942-02-12
1942-02-14
1942-02-15
1942-03-10
1942-03-11
1944-06-30
1942-03-31
1944-07-04
1942-03-05
1944-08-07
1944-08-20
1944-09-13
1944-09-15
1944-09-17
1944-09-19
1944-10-03
1944-11-18
1944-12-12
1944-12-13
1944-12-15
1944-12-16
1944-12-18
1944-12-19
1945-01-16
1945-01-17
1945-01-22
1945-01-28
1945-01-29
1945-02-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-02
1945-02-03
1945-03-30
1945-03-31
1945-05-02
1945-05-03
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LWoolgarRLA139398v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
16 OTU
192 Squadron
49 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
B-17
Battle
bombing
bombing of the Creil/St Leu d’Esserent V-1 storage areas (4/5 July 1944)
C-47
Cook’s tour
crash
ditching
Dominie
Halifax
Halifax Mk 3
Hampden
Hudson
Lancaster
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Manchester
Martinet
mine laying
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
RAF Barrow in Furness
RAF Foulsham
RAF Fulbeck
RAF Manby
RAF Peterborough
RAF Scampton
RAF Sutton Bridge
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF West Freugh
RAF Wigsley
RAF Yatesbury
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
Whitley
wireless operator / air gunner
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/217/3357/ABrownJM170405.2.mp3
8f4fa77e938c5a0b3f81064e719677af
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Brown, John M
John M Brown
Jack Brown
John Brown
J M Brown
J Brown
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with John "Jack" Brown (b. 1921, 423662 Royal Australian Air Force).
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Brown, JM
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
JM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Jean McCartney, the interviewee is John, or Jack as he is better known, Brown. The interview is taking place at Mr Brown’s home in Sylvania, New South Wales, on the 5th of April 2017. Also present is Mr Brown’s daughter, Jan. Okay Jack, let’s start at the beginning, you were born in July 1921 I believe.
JB: Right.
JM: At Carlingford. Now was that at a hospital or at a home?
JB: At home.
JM: At home. I thought it might have been. So how long did the family live around Carlingford for? Any rough idea?
JB: No.
JM: No, okay.
JB: They lived there a long while.
JM: A long while.
JB: Yeah.
JM: And is that where you grew up? Did you go to school round there?
JB: No, I went to school at Rose Bay.
JM: Oh, Rose Bay, right. So did you travel from Carlingford to Rose Bay?
JB: Oh, actually I grew up around Rose Bay.
JM: Oh, so you moved over.
JB: They, my parents moved.
JM: Moved, right.
JB: So I just was with them.
JM: Yes, that’s okay. So you moved to around Rose Bay and what primary school did you go to?
JB: The one at Rose Bay.
JM: Rose Bay, okay.
JB: They had the place opposite, and it was run by brothers. And so, I got, had a twin brother and so we went to school there.
JM: Right. And did that also have High School, or did you go somewhere different for High School?
JB: No, I went to school there, I remember going to school there and then I joined the Air Force when Japan came into the war.
JM: Yes. Did you finish school, erm, did you do your Intermediate Certificate?
JB: Did I do?
JM: Do your Intermediate Certificate, at high school.
Jan: High School.
JM: My what?
JB: I studied after I left school.
JM: No, no I’m asking you did you finish at school. And you left at fourteen did you?
JB: Yes.
JM: Okay, and when you were at school, did you do anything in particular there, you know, sort of sporting teams or get involved in anything?
JB: Tennis.
JM: Tennis?
JB: I was a very good tennis player and we, I won a championship there, but then I left there and went into the Air Force.
JM: Right, I think you actually did some work after you left school. I think you were in at, telegram boy. And then -
JB: Ah yes.
JM: And then that’s when you -
JB: Well you’ve got most of my history.
JM: I just want to hear your recollections to see what you have to say. It’s different hearing it from a person as opposed to reading about it. Because what we’re talking about here is that Jack’s life has been written up in a book called “The Sitting Duck Squadron” by Andy Larson, but as I say, it’s one thing to read about it, but it’s more –
JB: More intimate.
JM: More intimate if I can actually hear the words from you and what your recollections are. So, I mean there’s a couple of things about this time as well, is that you were living through the Depression years, and your parents obviously were having to cope with you.
JB: Yes. They weren’t well off.
JM: They weren’t well off. And you had one brother did you have any other?
JB: And three sisters.
JM: And three sisters. So you had a fairly -
JB: And the three sisters, actually they’re Gary’s daughters, and they’re now three owners here with me of this establishment and the one up in the top corner there.
Jan: That’s his daughters.
JB: That’s my granddaughter, she drew that.
JM: Goodness me!
Jan: No, she’s taking about whether you’ve got sisters and brothers, dad. You’ve got auntie Gloria, she was the only sister you had.
JM: Right. Okay.
JB: I’m finding it hard to remember.
JM: Yes, well it’s a long, long time ago. Okay. So what, after you left school, which I guess you left school early at fourteen because of the Depression.
JB: At fourteen.
JM: And everyone needed to try and get some work, so you went into, became a telegram boy, with the Post Office, and then you did some study and you went into the public service, you passed your public service exams, and became a public servant and you were, that’s when you first started with the Department of Interior.
JB: Right.
JM: Right? Yes, so and then after that is when you enlisted.
JB: In the Air Force.
JM: In the Air Force, and you had a gap between when you signed on.
JB: I had a what?
JM: A gap. You had to wait. You signed up in -
JB: Ah yes, I waited a few months.
JM: You signed up in December 1941 and.
JB: I think that, is that written in the book?
JM: Book, yes. And then you actually started your ITS in July 1942.
JB: What’s ITS?
JM: Your initial training.
JB: Ah yes.
JM: At Bradfield Park.
JB: Yes, that’s it. You’ve got it all. Well it’s in the book I think.
JM: Yes, and then after you did your initial training you went to Temora for your, when you started to fly, to do, start your pilot training.
JB: I did.
JM: So you were flying Tiger Moths at this point.
JB: Yes. You’ve got it all. I think it’s all in the book is it?
JM: Yes, but not everyone is going to be able to read the book.
JB: Oh, I see.
JM: So we need to have a little chat to be able to –
JB: To recognise.
JM: To have it available to other people because, as I say, it’s not possible for everyone to read the book.
JB: No, that’s right, I had to wait a few months. When I first joined, I joined the day Japan came into the war, but I didn’t get called up until a few months later and then I went to, I went to Temora.
JM: Yes. And do you remember anything, before you went to Temora, Sydney Harbour, the Japanese submarines in Sydney Harbour, do you remember anything about that?
JB: Ah yes, I do. We were living at Rose Bay then and so we were quite close to what was going on and I remember the fact that they got into the harbour and they sank the ship.
JM: The Kuttabul, yes.
JB: Yes.
JM: Did you, were you around at the like, did you hear, were you at home, did you hear any noises at any time? You can’t remember that.
JB: I can’t remember. Oh no. I remember them being there.
JM: Yes, yes. Well when you then went off to Temora and started your training, flying then on Tiger Moths, that was the first time you had been in a plane, I would assume. How did that feel?
JB: Well, the first time, they take you up and they put you through all these exercises and after that I thought oh, what am I doing here, like it was something that I hadn’t expected and I thought oh, I wasn’t happy. But I was tied up to the Air Force, so I just went through my course at Temora and then from there I went to Point Cook. I think that’s in the book.
JM: Yes, that’s right. And were there any scary experiences when you were flying around in the country there, or what?
JB: Oh it was no fun [much laughter].
JM: No? And why was it no fun?
JB: It was bloody dangerous! [Laughter] It was no fun, and you know, when I got my wings, I was kept back in Victoria for an extra, er, extra study for about a week or a fortnight, and then, I left then, I was going, I don’t know where I was going, I think I was going on leave and I got pulled up by the Commonwealth Police and, I had a jacket on, and they questioned me and blah, so that was no trouble and then I took my coat off and they saw that I was an officer and oh, they were horrified because they shouldn’t be interrogating me, as an officer. So they took me in hand and oh, they really looked after me and so, and then I finished up going to England. Went through, went through the United States.
JM: Yes, you went, you had an interesting trip, you went via the Panama Canal. Yes.
JB: Yeah. That’s right. You’ve got it all.
JM: Yes. But again it doesn’t really tell me about what you saw, what you, what sort of conditions were on the ship. Did you have to do any watches on the trip? Or anything like that?
JB: Oh no, it was just a holiday.
JM: Just a holiday. How many were in each cabin?
JB: It was packed with ex Army people, Americans, and they were being sent home because they were ill, or something, and it was twenty four hours a day, but I had a room to, I had an area to myself, which was very good, because I was an officer, and so that was a bit of a trip with me, but I had somebody with me. I think I had one of my family.
JM: No, you wouldn’t have a family member, no.
JB: Oh, I wouldn’t. Anyway.
JM: So what do you remember about going through the Panama Canal? Does that bring back any memories for you at all, or not?
JB: That was most interesting because you’d go along and then you’d stop, and then they’d have to fill the.
JM: The locks.
JB: [Door shutting] The lock again, to get through. So that happened and er, hang on, one time I had another person in the, in my room I think. Well no, I think that was when I went back and she fell out and hurt her head. That’s another occasion.
JM: Yes, now that’s another occasion, right. So then you went from, so did you have some leave in New York? Did you have some, after you arrived in New York did you have a little bit of leave to look around before you left again?
JB: Ah, they sent us out on leave to a particular area and there was a sergeant with me, and we went to this place, and he was a Colonel, and he was involved in some way with the Forces, and the chap who was with me wasn’t happy, so he left, but I stayed and they had a, they used to have a tennis competition. Did I mention this in the book?
JM: I don’t remember that bit, no.
JB: So they had this tennis organisation and I was a pretty good tennis player, and so I trounced them and they, they were shocked because they’d, they had a group that used to meet and play tennis and what have you, and they thought they were pretty good, but oh, they were no hope with me! So they got astounded at that. But I forget how long I was there. And then from there I went to Kidlington.
JM: Well went to Brighton to start with –
JB: Ah, Brighton, yeah, but then -
JW: And then after Brighton you did go to Kidlington, that’s right.
JB: That’s right. Alhough was it Kidlington that I was just talking about.
JW: Oh okay, right.
JB: Where I stayed.
JM: Right, right, okay. And so, and it was here that you were doing your advanced training, advanced flying training.
JB: At Moreton in the Marsh?
JM: That was when you got to OTU. So anything about Kidlington that stands out, any particular memory about Kidlington?
JB: About Kidlington? Oh, Kidlington was very interesting. The er, ah, what can I say? I was involved in an organisation at Oxford and the, Kidlington was just a training, er from Kidlington I went straight into the Air Force, into the battalion.
JM: From there you went to the OTU at Moreton on Marsh.
JB: From Moreton in the Marsh I went to Uxbridge.
JM: Yes, but let’s go back for a minute to Kidlington, ‘cause when you were there you had some leave at times, didn’t you, and you went up to Scotland, with a couple of other Scottish.
JB: Ah, well I did, you’re bringing back memories to me. I went up to Scotland and, actually, I met my wife there, only I didn’t marry her there, it was after the war.
JM: That’s right, but that’s where you first met, your wife Rita.
JB: Yes.
JM: Yes, in Edinburgh. What did you think of Edinburgh when you first got there, sort of?
JB: I liked Edinburgh.
JM: You liked Edinburgh?
JB: Yes, it was a fascinating place. It had, it’s got the castle up on the top and then they used to walk from there to, well barracks I call it, but it was a castle, Uxbridge Castle. And ah, I liked it.
KM: Yeah, Edinburgh. That’s good. Okay, well let’s go to, so then you got to OTU at Moreton on Marsh. And this was, I presume you did a conversion course to Wellingtons just before you went to OTU because you were flying Wellingtons when you got to OTU.
JB: We were flying Wellingtons at Kidlington.
JM: Ah, okay, alright, Wellingtons there as well, right.
JB: So from there I went to Moreton in the Marsh and then from Morton in the Marsh I was sent to Uxbridge and that’s where the Prime Minister operated, from there. We flew off from there on operations for a while and then I went over to Europe.
JM: Okay, well we’ll come to that in a moment. But just, the OTU is, where you crewed up, so, well at least I’m assuming that’s where you crewed up because that was the normal place for the crewing up to happen, so how did you choose your navigator and your bomb aimer and your gunners?
JB: There.
JM: There. How did you know any of these other chaps, or did they have friends, or?
JB: I did, I, they, queued people up and then I would select them.
JM: On what basis, what, you know, because you liked the look of them, or did you have a few words with them and wait to hear them speak, and then?
JB: I forget now.
JM: You forget now, right.
JB: I selected three people, and one of them, I think he was a sergeant, and he flew with me on one occasion and I thought I can’t, I’m not going to have this bloke, so I dumped him. I said I, ‘you can’t fly with me’ and so then they lined up other people and that’s, I finished up with three officers and oh, we became great pals.
JM: Great pals, that’s right.
JB: We survived the war and I got in, kept in touch with them afterwards. I still keep in touch with a couple of the sons of one of the.
JM: One of the chaps.
JB: One of chaps, yeah.
JM: Now I’m interested that you had fewer crew, that you didn’t seem to have a wireless operator in your crew, that seemed a little different to me, that you didn’t have a wireless operator.
JB: Well I think, I did have a wireless operator, but he didn’t operate as a wireless operator, he operated down below, as an observer.
JM: He was the observer was he, right?
JB: Yes, and he used to take the photographs. I think I explained in the book that we used to fly out about eight o’clock at night.
JM: Yes, well we’ll come to that in a mo. Well, in fact we will come to that now, because after you completed your training at OTU you went, you were posted to 69 Squadron. Now you said that you were posted straight off to this squadron which was flying Wellingtons, and didn’t go off to, posted off to a Lancaster Conversion Course which was what a lot of the chaps did, do you know why you were selected to go to 69 Squadron?
JB: No, I don’t.
JM: Or did you choose, did you put your hand up for it?
JB: No!
JM: You just got told you were going - Brown you’re going to 69.
JB: I was told I was going there and I didn’t know what it was or anything. And when I got there, I found that we operated from there, over, in connection with the invasion force. [Pause] And well, with the invasion forces, I never expected to survive the war. Most of the crew who I trained with down at, in Victoria, they were all killed, except one fellow who flew with me, and we used to get shot to pieces, and he got wounded and he went to hospital. He got wounded down below and his, and I saw him after the war. He came from Newcastle, but he, oh he never flew again, no. On our operations we’d get shot to pieces.
JM: Yes, and let’s, because it is a very different activity to what most other people were doing because they, 69 Squadron, wasn’t a very big squadron as I understand it.
JB: On no.
JM: No. And what 69 Squadron was doing was photographic reconnaissance, is that right? And to do that photographic reconnaissance you had to fly in very low?
JB: No.
JM: Drop flares?
JB: Oh, yeah. We used to fly about eight thousand feet, but when it was good weather I used to get down lower and then rise when I got to the target, then we’d drop flares, at eight thousand feet. Then we’d come down and photograph at a thousand feet and the activity, and you mentioned about, that church, at Lincoln was it?
JM: Lincoln, yes.
JB: Lincoln. I operated, I went through that church, and I operated from there. I was to photograph it later on, which I did, but it was a well known church and we, anyway I photographed that but, now where are we up to? Where I went to the squadron?
JM: Yes, so when you were in the squadron and we were just talking about what the squadron actually did in terms of having to drop the flares. The flares provided enough light for you then to do the photographing, because you were photographing troop movements mainly was it, or what else?
JB: I’ll tell you why it was established. The Wellington had a certain speed and it worked with the camera. They could, they knew what was going on during the day because they could see and they operated, but they didn’t know what was going on at night. So they established this squadron and, to establish the activities at night. And we used to fly out at eight thousand feet, drop flares, and it was just like daylight. Then we’d come down to a thousand feet and photographed what we saw and that’s how we operated. But I survived that war; nearly everybody on the squadron, they were all killed because it was, when you came down to a thousand feet, you were so well lit up.
Jan: Vulnerable.
JB: And we’d get hit, but the Wellington could take a lot of activity because of its construction, and I used to get hit many times and we got hit this time and he got wounded, this chap, and he never flew again. And I saw him after the war but he was a mess. But I survived the war.
JM: You did, that’s right. And in fact, to start with, you were based in England, but then, after about eight or so missions, you got moved over to Belgium and you were based in.
JB: Ah yes, we were stationed at Kidlington was it?
JM: Oh that was, that was for your earlier training. No, you were based at Northolt, near, where Heathrow is today.
JB: From Northolt, yeah, yeah, and from Northolt, well I left.
JM: The squadron was moved over to near Brussels, to Melsbroek.
JB: Yeah, that’s right, we went over on the continent. And then after the continent, I think I came back to England didn’t I?
JM: You did, after you finished your thirty five missions.
JB: You’ve got it all there.
JM: Yes, but again, I’m interested to hear you talk about it, and particularly as I say, that you had, you know, some very hairy experiences.
JB: Oh yeah. Well one night in particular we were flying over Germany or somewhere and I saw all this flak and what have you, oh, it was like daylight, and I thought oh, isn’t that good, we’re not going there [phone rings] next minute we turn right and we headed right over it and then up on top is an aircraft. It was hit by searchlights and we were way down below, it was way up, twenty thousand feet, and next thing, they all baled out, up there; they got hit and they all baled out. I don’t know what happened to them, but they would have landed, but the activity down below, oh, was really. And I was down below in all that activity, but I got out of that and survived.
JM: You survived, that’s right. And then on the tenth operation, your tenth trip was particularly hairy, wasn’t it?
JB: Was that the one I was just talking about?
JM: Well, it could be, because you ended up having -
JB: Most trips were very dicey because we dropped the flares and it was like daylight and we came down at a thousand feet, which is nothing. So we’d get a lot of activity, lot of ambushing, the plane would get hit but the Wellington construction was such that it could take it.
JM: It could take it, that’s right. But on the tenth flight you had a lot of, for some reason the camera didn’t want to be very cooperative and you ended up having to do three runs before you could actually get the -
JB: That’s the tenth trip was it.
JM: Well that’s what the book tells me, yes.
JB: But the book wouldn’t tell you much.
JM: No. It doesn’t that’s why I’m trying to get a few more little details of your personal memories of it.
JB: Well they were all dicey because it would be like daylight and we’d come down and a thousand feet is nothing so we would get hit, but the Wellington was a plane that could take a pasting.
JM: That’s right, so on this trip you had, you had to go round three times, and so you got hit every time you went through when you were, because the camera wasn’t taking the photos and then you, on the third run, you finally got there and then you had to go off to another area and you had exactly the same problem, the camera didn’t, still took a while.
JB: That’s recorded is it? Well that’s true.
JM: Yes, and then when you finally were able to turn for home you ended up only having one engine to fly on ultimately.
JB: [Laugh] That, what was in that book was correct. And that was one trip that I came back on one engine.
JM: Which with the Wellington only having two engines that doesn’t leave you with much, but yes!
JB: Well I wasn’t sure it would fly us on one engine, but it did.
JM: It did.
JB: And we got back home and I landed, but I landed at the wrong ‘drome! Did I mention that?
JM: Not really, no.
JB: Well when we came back, they had organised a strip that we [emphasis] knew and only the pilots that were operating knew that they could fly on this trip, and so I came back on that, but what had happened was another crew, they came in but they were followed by a German plane. And the German plane shot them down, they were all killed, and then he, the German plane was left over Brussels. And I was contacted, and it was ready to attack me, well it did, but it got shot down and the rear gunner, he got a decoration for that and er, but the plane, the German plane, couldn’t get out because it didn’t know the route out. It got in because it followed the plane, but once it got in was saddled, so we shot it, they said to me ‘what do we do with it?’ and I said ‘shoot it down!’ So we shot it down and he was killed; he was one of their best pilots. So I rang the, I got in touch with [indecipherable] and said ‘look, I’ll bring his body back’, and they said oh great. So I did. But I also had two young girls on it, who had said to me, ‘oh look we want to come on your trip as observers’, and I said ‘oh, I’m not happy about that.’ Anyway, they got on the plane, and so when I flew the German back to Germany, I dropped his body and two, the two girls came out too, but they were dead of course. And they got on the plane and they didn’t have any oxygen so, you know, they didn’t survive. So the two girls, I dropped the German and then the two girls’ bodies came out and they were returned to India – they were, they came from India.
JM: Goodness!
JB: And they were recognised as being very efficient, you know, but stupid, for sneaking on the plane, and anyway, that was an interesting story.
JM: Story, yes.
Jan: That’s wild!
JB: Hey?
Jan: That’s wild!
JM: So, the point is that, with that trip, that you ended up having to do three attempts to get the photographs, not once but twice and because the plane was so damaged and bringing it back on the one engine, meant that you ended up being awarded a DFC. For that particular trip.
JB: I forget exactly what I, was awarded the DFC for what trip.
JM: Well that, and everything, and all the other experiences.
JB: And afterwards the Queen, I got awarded the Victoria Cross.
JM: No, I’m not sure that you, that happened.
JB: No, it didn’t happen then.
JM: No.
JB: It happened later. The, what happened, my crew, or you know, were awarded not the Victoria Cross, the highest award that a civilian could get, although I wasn’t a civilian and I was awarded that and the Queen, she knew this, she said, I was getting some other award, and she said that I was the bravest sergeant in the Australian Army.
Jan: Air Force.
JM: Air Force, right.
JB: World War Two. And she said so I’m going to award him the Victoria Cross. So I’ve got that now. Did I mention that in the book?
JM: No. You’re confused.
Jan: You got the DFC, but you never got the VC.
JB: No, I’ve got a –
Jan: The DFC, Distinguished Flying Cross.
JB: Then I’ve got another award which was given to me by the British Army and then the Queen, she had read everything, and she gave me the Victoria.
Jan: No, dad, you didn’t get that one, you’ve got the DFC, and you’ve got a couple of other ones, but you don’t have the Victoria Cross.
JB: Not, I only got that recently, not recently, I mean you know.
JM: Anyway, after you finished your thirty five missions, um, or ops, you finished, that finished your tour and so you ended up having some leave, in Paris.
JB: Having to what -
JM: You had some leave.
JB: Ah, right.
JM: After you finished your thirty fifth op, [throat clear] pardon me, you took some leave in Paris and had a look around Paris, and went to quite a few shows there.
JB: Yeah, and I got involved with the girls, they used to put on a show, they would see these girls, and the girls used to strip off and [laughter] and I went on one of these trips and I saw the girls, and I, the couple of girls that I saw were Australians! And anyway I didn’t have sex with them or anything, no [laughter].
Jan: I’m glad! Thanks for that information dad! [Much laughter]
JB: I don’t know why I didn’t! But.
Jan: Too much information!
JM: So after your leave you got posted to Newcastle, to assist with some training up there. You became a trainer -
JB: Ah, yeah.
JM: Which didn’t impress you very much like that, no.
JB: I didn’t like that and I finished up there.
JM: Yes, you did. Well the only saving grace to that was you were near, much closer to Edinburgh and so could go and see Rita more often, or more easily I should say.
JB: I wasn’t married then.
JM: No, no, you weren’t married but you just were still just good friends and you would go and visit her and her mother.
JB: I did. I visited, yes.
JM: The two of them.
JB: Her mother, I forget now.
Jan: Nana Cullen, your favourite.
JB: Yeah. [Much laughter]
Jan: Don’t you say a word!
JB: You know more about it than I do!
JM: Anyway, let’s, you finished up there and you came back to Australia, and you were discharged in December 1945 and so you went, because you had been working with the Commonwealth Department of Interior, you went back into the Commonwealth Department of Interior. You at no stage contemplated going into private sector, you decided to always be a public servant?
JB: Ah, well I don’t know, but I thought oh well, I’ll just go back into the public, and I, the head of the, that department, he really [emphasis] liked me, and he was going, well he supported me to become the head of the whole department and then, but he got married again and his wife made him leave the government. So he left the government, so I was sort of left on my own.
JM: Yes. So you had a very long career with the Department of the Interior. You moved around: you went from Sydney to Canberra, for a very brief stint, and then back to Sydney, and in amongst all of that Rita came out and joined you and you got married and had a happy ending there after all there.
JB: You’ve got it all.
JM: And then you went ultimately back to Canberra for, in the late fifties and the early sixties and then down to Melbourne.
JB: And from Melbourne I was to become the head of, I was brought back to Canberra and I was to become head of the department, but it didn’t happen because the head of the department, he got married and his wife made him leave the Air Force so I didn’t have a supporter.
JM: Mmm. That’s right. So, but anyway you ended up back in Sydney and that’s where you retired from, in 1973, so then that gave you and Rita a chance to do a bit of travel. You went trotting around here and there did you?
JB: Yeah, went all round the world. Went to, back to Edinburgh, and to that place that you mentioned, and then on the continent, went to this place where, that the girls used to operate, you know.
JM: Into Paris, into.
JB: Over in Europe. Went there, went and saw the girls there, and it, I had a most interesting time.
JM: And it meant that you’ve ended up with a pretty full life one way and another.
JB: Oh, absolutely. Most interesting life, and I never really expected to survive the war, never [emphasis]. I was one of the few who survived, and now I’m, how old am I?
Jan: Ninety five.
JB: Ninety five now, and they reckon I will live to be a hundred and get a letter from the Queen if she’s still alive. [Chuckle]
JM: Well that would be good. And you mentioned that you did stay in touch with some of your crew members, after the war.
JB: Oh well they, my own crew, they’re dead, but one of them had two sons.
JM: Sons, yes. Were all of them - there were no other Australians, they were all English, Scottish chaps that were on your crew?
JB: Oh, they were all English, all English.
JM: Yes, yes.
JB: Although this chap that got wounded, he was an Australian. What happened was, we didn’t drop bombs or anything.
JM: No, that’s right.
JB: We used to just photograph. Then they decided that we would drop bombs, and I said ‘oh, I’m not going to drop any bombs, I‘ve nearly finished my tour and I’ll just do the normal thing’ and that is exactly what happened. I didn’t drop any bombs, but they did. I should [emphasis] have, because, oh, I could have caused havoc, but I went to that church that you’re talking about, and went through that and my operations were most interesting, but most dangerous.
JM: Most dangerous, that’s right, exactly. And the sons of that crew member, are they still in touch with you? Yes?
JB: Yes, yes. Every year I get a card - I think that might be one there. I get a card from them and I send them a card: the two sons. And one of them, his wife, I used to communicate with her, and when I went back in England, used to take her around, but she’s passed away.
JM: Right. Well, that’s certainly been -
JB: That’s about the end.
JM: Yes, it is about the end. It’s been a very, very full life and a very significant number of events occurred for you during your, particularly your war service, it was a very tough time.
JB: Well the war service was very difficult, and very dangerous.
JM: Very dangerous, that’s right.
JB: Very dangerous. I think, I think I was the only survivor of, of that area and it was most interesting, but you know, very dangerous, and I, one of my last trips, I flew out and I was, used to fly low [machine noise] if the weather was good, and I got fired on and I found the headquarters and said, told them that I’d got fired on, on the way out, and I said and ‘what I’m going to tell you is, that is where the bombs are.’ That’s, they had bombed the place and they hadn’t hit the target, and I said ‘that [emphasis] is where the target is.’ And so the next day when I’m flying, they had blown the place up, they’d hit the target and I was told and I was given a photograph. They had taken a photograph during the day, and it had been devastated and so that was most interesting. I got credit for that. Then, but, I came back from that, from the training flight and they.
Jan: It’s noisy.
JM: It's terrible!
JB: I got [indecipherable] injured on the training flight and I thought oh, I don’t think, I lost control of the ailerons, and I thought I don’t know that I can fly this plane home. So anyway, ah well, I’ll try, and I did and I landed at a terrific speed and you know, I survived and straight from that flight I was put on a special flight with the C, Commanding Officer and we went up in this plane and it was one of the jets that had just come out and he hadn’t flown that one before and he said ‘you’re the best pilot I’ve got’, nobody had ever told me that before, ha! And he said ‘so I’m taking you on this trip’ and he said ‘And I’ve never flown this plane before’ , it was one of the jets that had just come out, with the jet engines, so we come down in that and he said on the way down, he said, ‘now you’re my co-pilot, I’ve never landed this plane before but I want you right alongside!’ [Laugh] So I, jeez, what am I doing with this bloke? He’s never flown this plane before, he’s now going to land it and he’s never landed it and he says to me if something happens to me, you land it! [Laugh] I had a most interesting life.
JM: Mmm. That’s right.
JB: Anyway, he landed it all right.
JM: Well, he must have because you’re here to tell the tale today, so that’s all good.
JB: I know, I am!
Jan: He still is! You still have got an interesting life. [Laugh]
JM: Anyway, well I thank you very much for spending some time with me and sharing your stories, and I do appreciate it very much. So I thank you Jack, indeed.
JB: Oh no. That’s no problem. You’ve got one of those books have you? At home?
JM: No, I don’t have it at the moment, but we can sort that out shortly.
JB: I’ll give you one.
JM: Okay. Thank you very much, Jack, we’ll finish up there, thank you.
JB: Can you get one?
Jan: Yep.
Dublin Core
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ABrownJM170405
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Interview with John "Jack" Brown
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Sound
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eng
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01:00:12 audio recording
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Jean Macartney
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2017-04-05
Description
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Jack Brown was born and spent his early life in Australia, leaving school at fourteen doing odd jobs before joining the civil service and then the RAF. He talks about his initial training before travelling to England and joining 69 Squadron. Jack describes carrying out operations taking photographs in difficult circumstances and being awarded the DFC, as well as more relaxing times on leave. After the war Jack returned to Australia but did return to Europe as a tourist after his retirement.
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
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Australia
Belgium
France
Great Britain
England--Gloucestershire
England--Oxfordshire
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Anne-Marie Watson
Carolyn Emery
aircrew
bombing
Distinguished Flying Cross
Operational Training Unit
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
searchlight
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/338/3502/PTaylorGH1601.1.jpg
4df1ff0eed98f30b3435401903bcaca0
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/338/3502/ATaylorGH160831.1.mp3
c7fd63bc5f7766f359632f5517aecd77
Dublin Core
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Title
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Taylor, Gerald
Gerald Herbert Taylor
Gerald H Taylor
G H Taylor
G Taylor
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Gerald Herbert Taylor (1924 - 2016, 1607305 Royal Air Force).
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-08-31
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Taylor, GH
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB: Is that ok? Right I’ll start. My name is Chris Brockbank and today is Wednesday the 31st of August 2016 and we’re in Maidenhead with Gerry Taylor who is going to tell us about his days in Bomber Command. So Gerry what are your first recollections of life with the family?
GT: The seaside really. Being born in Bournemouth I now know and have known for many years how lucky I was being born there because it gave — and also obviously the fact that my father had a car. Which is those days was, I suppose, more uncommon at the beginning. He worked for commercial traveller — as a commercial traveller and the area manager for the south of England for Crosse and Blackwell. Started his work up in Soho in London and got promoted to the job in Bournemouth as the area representative. So he covered the area of the New Forest.
[Phone ringing. Recording paused]
CB: So we had to stop for the phone but the father was an area representative for Crosse and Blackwell.
GT: Promotion to this but it involved moving to Bournemouth and having a car to take around the New Forest area. He covered, I think, an area say between Devon and all of Hampshire. And [pause] yes the first recollection, I’ve backtracked really a bit, but about cars. They apparently they took him outdoors to teach him how to drive. He had a little old Morris. And the man who showed him sort of sat him in the car and drove him up and down the road in Soho a little bit. And that’s it. He said bye bye. And that was his tuition. That’s all he got to drive from there to Bournemouth. To find the way and everything. So, he always used to joke about he never passed a test in his eighty five years. And I won’t say he never did anything wrong. He didn’t seem to to me but anyway. So that was a great advantage in Bournemouth as well because he loved the sea and swimming and he spent as much time as possible being able to swim. He used to get up early. Before seven. Down to the beach and took me down most times. I think I was probably a big disappointment because —
[Phone ringing. Recording paused]
GT: I go some morning without a sound but —
CB: Yes. So we were just talking about the swimming. So you did a lot of swimming as well.
GT: He used to swim long distances and between the two piers Boscombe and Bournemouth Pier. But I was a bit of a disappointment because I didn’t like cold water. I loved swimming but it gets too cold. It did in the mornings. So, and he was so lucky to be able to do that. And we had a beach hut which we spent as much time as possible in the school holidays and all other times. So it was really and I didn’t even appreciate it I suppose until later in life how lucky I was. And it made for a huge amount of enjoyment from my point of view and I always loved the seaside particularly. I’m sure it comes from that. Schooling was all in Bournemouth. I can remember the very first school was a little primary school. I don’t know if it would be called that now. It was close to my home in Winton. That’s the earliest one I can remember. I don’t think it was a — Brianston. No. That wasn’t the name of the school. It will come to me. But it was a very small thing. Thirty or forty little, little boys prior to going to the larger school which was a collegiate school, which is in West Bournemouth. A place called [pause] well naturally it was near south — Westbourne. That’s right. Westbourne, which was a district of it. And it was a good school. I enjoyed that. And from there I went to a more senior school at the age of around about eleven. To Bournemouth, or as it was then called, Bournemouth School for Boys. And there was also one for girl’s which was a very good school. My sister went there. But I did enjoy school — looking back on most of it. I didn’t work as hard as I ought to have done. I know that now. Whereas my sister was working away and I was — she was held up as a — I should be working like her which is true. But I didn’t like it at the time. Anyway, my most enjoyable thing at school really was the Boy Scouts I think. I went all through the ranks and levels up to troop leader and really was keen on it. And went to camps in the summer which was another nice addition you could do with that sort of thing. Boy Scouts may have been mocked a bit but I didn’t find that. I didn’t understand it really and even now I don’t. But it all changed so much I suppose. But certainly the Boy Scouts was a great thing which I enjoyed and the school was very supportive of it. And later on when after the war broke out they also had an ATC section and a Cadet Corps. I can’t think — what was it called? Cadet Corps. But they had, they were pre-army people and so I joined that as well which was quite active. And, I don’t know, I suppose I joined it with a young kid’s version of wanting to do something. I can remember clearly on Armistice Days I used to stand. Occasionally it was me. It was others at other times. Stand for the Armistice Ceremony in front of the Memorial with your rifle sort of reversed and stand the whole five minutes or whatever it was. Might have been longer really. To stay there whilst service was going on. Which was quite a thing you could remember and all part of my interesting joint thing. I can remember, and that was all still while I was at the school. I enjoyed playing football mostly. I played a bit of rugby. Not hockey. Football was the big enjoyment of my life and we played other schools. I wasn’t that good. I think I was in the second eleven. I played once or twice in the first eleven. Which was, of course a big excitement in my life when it happened. In the sports side of it was very good. There was a lot of things to join and take part if you wanted. I just concentrated really on — did a lot with the Scouts mostly. And when the war was declared I went to this, sort of — backtrack. I went to the Bournemouth Boy’s School around about ’39. I can’t, to be honest, remember. It might have been. It was probably before that I’m sorry because I remember yes it was. It was before it. I can’t remember the date but I remember I was at a Scout camp near Bournemouth for a weekend. A short camp. And that was when they declared war. Whilst I was at the camp. And I won’t say it was excited. It was sort of awe inspiring thing. The fact that we were at war and my parents remembered the First World War. My father was in France in 1914 and he was an Old Contemptible. One of the originals who was there, excuse me, he was there for the famous football match. I don’t know if that was the one they all talk about but he certainly said there was a kicking about of footballs. Which, whilst he was alive it hadn’t gained its notoriety as it has now. But it was very interesting to know that he was part of that. And then he was wounded at one stage. I’m not sure if it was Ypres or not but he was wounded and came back to the UK. He was a sergeant in the — a drill sergeant at Aldershot. Which always surprised me because he wasn’t a particularly noisy man which as drill sergeant, you more or less have to be. I mean he could raise his voice but to be a drill sergeant at Aldershot was quite a thing. You needed a very powerful voice which was always rather intriguing to me. So that was a separate thing if I backtracked on to because of the war and knowing when I was at school. Excuse me. I left school at [pause] muddled straight up in to the joining the RAF.
CB: Well the war started when you were fifteen.
GT: ’42. It must have been early ’42. And I volunteered. I wanted to volunteer. My mother was highly anti-volunteering for it at that stage, ‘No need to do it now.’ One of my things I know, I remember, I always felt I don’t want to be told what to do by going into some army thing. I would like to go in to the air force because I was much more interested in planes because I lived very close to Hurn and was often cycling over to Hurn and watched the planes taking off. It was always of more interest regardless of the war itself. It was just the aviation side I guess. But eventually I persuaded my father to take me to a recruiting office one lunchtime ad we signed up. He pointed out there were, that I should think very carefully about it all but he didn’t try to deter me. He just said, ‘Be aware of what you’re signing.’ And so I signed up for aircrew but I was immediately put on [pause] not retirement [pause]
CB: Deferred.
GT: Deferred service. That’s the word. I’m sorry. So in 1942 when I signed up I went on to deferred service. At the same time, or roughly the same time I got a job at the school. I was a laboratory assistant in the physics laboratory and I also covered the chemistry laboratory because they didn’t have anybody. But basically I was laboratory assistant at the physics laboratory which was employed by the Bournemouth Council. So I got a ninety five percent — ninety five pence pay packet each week. I think it was a pound I think before my tax and things removed. It was about ninety five pence which I remember I carefully gave my mother something towards housekeeping and stashed away a few pennies which in those days bought bars of chocolate. So it was all a sort of growing up process. But I thoroughly, I enjoyed school. Things like physics and chemistry and the practical sides of the things. And I suppose if you enjoy it you’re possibly better at it. And if you don’t enjoy it which I definitely liked being there. And I was quite good at keeping the place tidy and getting things ready for experiments. So it was a good feeling of being a young lad and suddenly becoming an adult in the school and gave you some kudos. Still could be a member of the Scouts because it was all running at the same time so I stayed on with that. And it was almost a year when I was on, whilst I was on deferred service until I got my papers for calling up in early ’43. When I should have mentioned that after I signed up the initial papers at the recruiting office in Bournemouth I went up for the interviews at Oxford. The aircrew interviews. Aircrew. It wasn’t the reception centre but it was the interview place and we had a night. Stayed the night at Oxford. Most of us, of course, it was the first time we’d been away from home. We were in this Clarendon Laboratory. An enormous place. All I ever remember is masses and masses of beds in the place and you found your bed in the middle of it and it was listening. A night of noises from men. All very unusual. Almost everybody would have felt the same I know. But had the usual interviews there. And I, it was a two day process. I’m trying to think of where else there was attached to it. Just constant interviews really. Of asking about different things. I wanted to be a pilot. I imagined myself as a pilot I suppose and I, because of my attachment to the ATC at the school and the army OTC, Officer Training Corps, I got a trip in a Whitley. I think they took four or five of us from the school. Recruiting things. Army and the air force one and we had a trip in the back of this Whitley. There were windows of course. No comforts and we flew quite low. Floating around over Bournemouth and the area and it was exciting but I constantly felt airsick. And by the end of this hour’s flight, I suppose, a little less than that maybe, I thought to myself whatever have I done. Signed up for the air force and I was nothing but airsick. It was absolutely terrible. So it was, that was of course quite a worry. I thought I’d done the wrong thing and that was all still part of the school life really which continued until the calling up time. Just side-tracking a bit my father lost a lot of his access to the sea because they closed off lots of roads to the front. But I suppose he knew most of the people who were officials down there by that number of years he’d lived and the amount of swimming he did. So, believe it or not at the end of one row of barbed wire and some other obstruction in the water just a few feet out in the bay there was a space left for [pause] I’m trying to think exactly where it was near. Near to Durley Chine it was and you could still walk along the promenade there but he had this space where he crept through the barbed wire and had a good swim. Which was all very helpful I should think to the Germans [laughs] if they [laughs] but it was all, would have been quite hopeless really. The amount of defences they could put up really by that time. They were in shore and right on the cliffs of Bournemouth. He joined the home, he was the first in the LDE the Local Defence Volunteers and transferred to the Home Guard and he was a lieutenant in the Home Guard during the war. Whilst I was at school, part of the, being part of the staff of the school I took part in the shifts which covered the night shift and fire watch. And more than the masters I used to be able to patrol around the roofs which had warping areas. You could climb on to the roof to get to the school clock on the top. Yours truly was, I wouldn’t say was allowed, I went up there two or three times to fix the hands of the clock which slipped and that sort of thing. Although it was allowed it wasn’t officially approved of course. Health and safety not being anything that was heard of. But as far as I was concerned it was just a boy climbing up a roof. Not too steep a one. And fire watch was quite interesting. Well, very interesting. We also used to see the blaze of the sky from the fires of Southampton which is thirty miles away across the New Forest. But when there were big raids on Southampton we saw all the lights in the sky. And my house in Bournemouth was then a three storey old house on a raised part in Talbot Heath and I had a little balcony outside the window. And when there were raids on I used to climb through the window and just stand there — to my mother’s fury, ‘Get inside.’ And they were all sitting under the stairs [laughs] in the so-called air raid shelter but I used to watch the air raids. Not very safe but also you could see Southampton razed and occasionally see landmines coming down. And I can remember one moonlit night seeing a parachute. There was a bomb went off. It would have been a couple of miles away I suppose. But I cycled past the school on the way to the, my school working and this possibly was where the landmine hit because it hit. It destroyed one of the schools, or half of it, on the way. So that was just from my point of view an interesting thing to have seen. And I can recall seeing, in a daylight raid, seeing a fighter, German fighter shot down. A little bit further out towards the west of Bournemouth and I guessed the area. I cycled over there as soon as the all clear from the air raids went. And it was a German fighter and I collected a bit of scrap metal and something else to take home which had a disgusting smell about it. I don’t know what it was. But apparently it was always associated with crash, crashes and it must have sprayed oil or something over the fields. A nasty smell really. Anyway, they were kept in a greenhouse for a while. My parents, I hate to say my father didn’t mind really. I think he understood. But my mother disapproved of my nipping out at all. Which really was quite right. But I was forever nipping out and having a look. Seeing what was going on during air raids. But my grandmother who had come to live with us from Redhill when her husband died, my grandfather, she was under the stairs. My mother. And there was room for me and my sister and my father if he was there. So that was the, really I think the end of the school time and I went up to —
[Recording paused]
CB: Ok. So we’re restarting. So you’re now called up. So what happened then?
GT: Yes. When I got my call up papers it was to report to Lord’s Cricket Ground which was a place known as ACRC. It’s the Air Crew Reception Centre and it was based in London. The best way I can describe it — very near to London Zoo. In that area of London. And we were all based in different hotels around Regent’s Park which had been commandeered. So we were in a room of, I think, three or four men. And all my room and most of them were about the same. All the way up along Regent’s Park Road. But that was purely part of the living side of the accommodation side. We went to lots of other places for training. So I did it but it was an amazing experience for all of us. For most of them being the first full time of being away from work. From home. Which reminds me if I could backtrack there to when I was, went for interview in Oxford. My hope had been to be a pilot but the officer said that there weren’t any training vacancies for pilots at that time but they were desperately in need of air observers. And you are just the sort that would make [laughs] make a good air observer. Now, this might have just been a load of flannel or it might have been true. Whether to do with — I quite believe they were short of pilots but whether they had suitable people for navigators I don’t know. I say navigators. That’s wrong, it was called, at that time it was an air observer and they had an O for the wings. So I accepted this without a murmur really. Disappointed but that’s what I was accepted as. An air observer under training. The — added to that at some stage I suppose within the first year the name was changed to navigator. So I was no longer an air observer. I was a navigator under training. But to go on to ACRC in London I was there about three weeks I think and we had training in various, well-known places from these hotels. Early morning was something like a 6 o’clock start. And we formed up in flights which we’d been, I suppose, arbitrarily put into and we marched from the hotel along the road to the zoo, London Zoo where we ate our meals inside the zoo. And the long columns still in the darkness and the front one and the back one had to carry back, aircrew person had to carry a lamp. A red lantern. And it was all quite amazing to sort of walk along the road at that time of the night. Then cross the little bridge into London Zoo and have our feed there. And back again to whatever training place we’d got. We had things like the Wigmore Hall which was commandeered by the RAF and probably the other forces as well to show films and lectures. But because it was big and there were several bits to it they could show big films. Most memorable of all the experiences I think to us was the showing of the anti-VD films. So they, they put these —
CB: We’ve all had that.
GT: Hundreds of us in there and put the most gruesome, I think they were American films showing the very worst part when I think about it. And I think I have to say it quite probably put a lot of people off. Exactly what it was supposed to do. And it was quite horrible really but anyway it put people off for quite a long time so put it that way. So they become a bit more hardened to life. And we not only got things like that to try and keep you on the straight and narrow so you were fit for things and not in a sort of hospital or a ward somewhere with it. We also had a very strong additive to the tea which made it taste disgusting but it dampened down your ardour evidently. And that went on all the time we were there and some of the early postings and after a while either you got used to it or they stopped doing it.
CB: That was Bromide in tea.
GT: If you were able to fly I’m quite sure you were old enough to do what you wanted then. But we went to, I can’t remember, inside Lord’s we went to several things which was a very interesting experience to think you were actually in the buildings of Lord’s to these lectures on various items. Mostly I suppose it would be administrative and drill type items. Physical drill that we would be doing rather than more intimate stuff to do with the technical side of the flying. And it was to get you in to a shape where you were part of a cohesive group really. Lots of drill there. We had a drill sergeant was, or a sergeant rather, was allocated to each flight as we were broken up into — it was called flights at that stage. And we had a sergeant took us for the drill and marched us up and down around the Lord’s area. And generally that took part of that side of it. But the amount of drill we did there was really limited I suppose by the amount of space you could march around London in without getting into other people’s way. But generally the three weeks was really, you were not allowed out until the last week. So the first two weeks you were incarcerated in this place and we had a canteen area which most people gravitated to. Or you could just go to your room at night and that was it. No going out. We were — the first episode outwards was very exciting. To go out with your white flash on and walk out. I recall the first time I had to salute an officer which was one of the first things we were taught was that you saluted officers. I recall getting very close to this officer and being concerned as to how I was going to salute him and made a real mess of it I suppose. I think he laughed out loud at my salute but he saluted back. And it was, the beginning of that was you were in the forces and that was just one of the outward things. You soon got used to that and being in uniform was, wasn’t uncomfortable at all because every valid person, or able person was in some form of uniform. And so about three weeks went quite quickly. I can’t recall any other things of that particular area. And then we were split up. If you were still regarded as suitable for air crew they were weeding some people out who I think they thought possibly weren’t warranting training what they wanted and they had to accept a lower, lower thing really. But the ones who were going further or had the opportunity to further themselves into aircrew were split up into initial, what they called Initial Training Wings. We were a flight at this time and then split up all over the place and it would depend on wherever they had vacancies. And we had different courses at each wing and most of these were or seemed to be in nice holiday places where there were lots of hotels that could accommodate the forces. Particularly the RAF who did a lot of training in this way. In the, it was called the ITW. The Initial Training Wing and that’s where you received a lot more admin and drilling and further information on the basics without getting too far into the more technical side of the operations. A huge amount, it seemed, of drilling. Walking up and down. My ITW was in Scarborough and it was, we were based in the Grand Hotel which they’d taken over. And that’s right on the front at Scarborough and was an amazing place in its day. But to see it with nothing but air force people running about inside must have been a bit of a horror to those who really knew it. But we did a lot of drilling along the seafronts and up and down the hollows of roads around the sea. Which was good for training because we did a lot of marching up hill. And the sergeants got to know us quite well really with their usual remarks about training and what they ought to be doing.
[Recording paused]
We still looked upon the sergeants or the NCOs as some, a different breed. And I recall we used to take our shirts to, you could send them to the camp laundry or whatever you called it and you’d get them all back nicely but if you sent them to the Chinese laundries of which there were loads of them proliferated around these centres of RAF and, I expect the army as well. You got a fantastic wash and your collars, which were loose collars in those days, they came back like little sheets of cardboard but looked exceptionally smart but they were very nasty to wear. When you folded them over you had a sharp starched edge which really made your skin sore. So people were walking around with little red necks until you got used to it all and softened them up a bit. I remember one night we were out, a little group of us put our laundry in to the little local Chinese and a voice over our shoulder said, ‘So this is what you do in your spare time is it?’ And this was our drill sergeant. He’d never spoken to us, as I say, an off-duty human. But we were all very surprised to find that that he was sort of human beings too. Which was quite good and quite funny really. He chatted to us for a while but that was our first free contact with a permanent RAF person, I suppose. And we had competitions between the different flights in drill. Which was quite good because we got very very keen on it and we, my particular flight got very good at it and got very good at the drilling. The American drill which, I can’t recall the name of it but you had, went through a long, long series of manoeuvres without any orders being given at all. It has a word to it but it’s an American invention. You just started off and you went through and you followed the instructions you learned and they used to have competitions between the different wings.
[Phone ringing. Recording paused]
GT: So anyway, we won one of these competitions which was all very gratifying. And we did some classroom work which was all very basic but it was certainly leading towards being in an aircraft and flying and what outer extraneous things affected you. Like the weather. Very, very basic things. Talking about the weather and how it affected you and other types of thing which affected the flying of aircraft that were all very basic but things we didn’t know about at all. And a reasonable amount of class work doing that and we also learned a lot of — the drill was at another section which was kept to itself really. We learned small arms shooting. There was a range up on the hills above Scarborough. A shooting range. And we used to go, not often but quite regularly up there to learn to manipulate sten guns, Bren guns. Particularly sten guns and fire them both on the range. And then hand guns. I can’t remember what weapon it was, a revolver on the range to see and actually shooting at a targets. And we learned the mechanics of a sten gun because that was something we would or could come into contact with on an airfield. And we learned to take it apart and know every single nut and bolt of the thing, and that’s the sort of thing I enjoyed. So I got very good at dismantling and naming sten guns and becoming top in speed in getting them undone and put back together again. But it was the sort of thing that somehow seemed useless. What on earth are you doing that for because basically we might not see them. We would see them again obviously but not come into contact with use. But all part of the same thing. And we did skeet shooting quite a bit which was again part of observation in the sky and that fed back in to the fact that one of the other things we learned in the classrooms was aircraft recognition. And there were various ways of teaching us. Slowly learning well that’s a Junkers 88 from little cards. And we used to get these flash jack slides quicker and quicker and you had to jot down what they were. Again, eventually it ended up in little competitions to see if you could get them in time. And the cut down time was two or three seconds you’d get given to see some fighter which would flash across and you’d think you’d hardly had time to imagine what it was. But it was, it taught you which we did get into that in greater detail in further training. But most of, well all of the stuff was relevant to your future existence. But it seemed at the time why are we learning this and not getting on with learning with, in our case being navigators. But it was, in fact, part of it and in addition to doing that the ITW, the training wings held you as a group before going on to the further training which was more likely to be overseas. They had a scheme, a massive scheme organised. The Overseas Training Scheme which had a lot of training facilities for pilots and navigators in — Canada and America and South Africa were the main ones. I’m trying to think. And there were some in the UK but a smaller number for various obvious reasons it was sensible to train out of an operational dangerous place. So we then, from ITW, got [pause] let me get this right, we were posted to, I’m not sure at that stage we knew it was overseas or not because we went to Harrogate. Posted to Harrogate. Not knowing exactly what we were doing but the rumour was we were going to go overseas. And obviously we didn’t know then. We worked it out from later years there was a hold up. In other words there might have been a shipping hold up. There might not have been the ships to take us. From Harrogate we were just floating about in, again in hotels. With minimal training. And we went from there to Ludlow in Cheshire. I think it was Cheshire. Shropshire. Shropshire. I’m sorry. In Shropshire where we lived in tents and we had about five weeks there I think. And what we did there was really [laughs] well it was a waste of time but that was what it was designed to do. When we got there we had to — one of two things. We either built a drain with pipes etcetera along a route that was already there and we either built it, made it a bit longer. All part of a drainage system and sewerage system which they were laying up. Now, the next group that came in after we went — their task was more likely to be take up this building it, or this construction area that we’d done, take it all up and pack it away so that it wasn’t there. So it was just a waste of time really but it was what we were doing. And wandering around Ludlow I think. It was quite strict but it was just under tents it wasn’t very enjoyable really. And we were allowed out in to Ludlow which had one of the highest percentages of pubs in the UK I think. But that was occupied best part of a month at Ludlow and then we were back again to Harrogate. And from Harrogate one night we went by train to Glasgow. We didn’t know any of the destinations to start with. But Glasgow — we knew once we got near it because one of the trainees was Glaswegian who lived right down near the Clyde and knew it all intimately. So we got down there after a night on the train and shunting. Waiting. Kept waiting. Eventually, we got down to the docks and boarded a boat, or a ship. Whichever it was. We didn’t know where it was going or what the boat was. I think that was about a stage following, that’s right continuously on from, back from Harrogate into, back into Harrogate. Sorry into Harrogate for holding for a couple of days and then on to the train up to Glasgow, then onto the ship. The ship sailed, and it was alone. It didn’t have any escort at all. We then learned that it was the, or what became the Queen Elizabeth the 1st. It hadn’t been named. It was the first of the very very big ones and it was very fast. Thirty five odd knots which could outrun any of the German destroyers and submarines. So we crossed the Atlantic from Glasgow right down to the Caribbean Sargasso Sea where we knew where we were then simply because of all the seaweed stuff. We had no escort at all but we zigzagged the entire way across the Atlantic. Quite an experience really. And we also were taking back a large group of American soldiers. They were on board on a different deck. But the first time we’d ever seen live American soldiers. And massive great rooms in which we slept in hammocks. And also the long long tables I can remember where the food used to slide along when it was rough. It would slide right down to one end if somebody didn’t stop it. But it was all an amazing experience. I didn’t like sleeping in a hammock. I don’t think I ever got comfortable and spent quite a lot of time being seasick. I think I did get less seasick as the voyage went on. And it was really fairly boring. We had films which were all relative to our future training and flying and I suppose various sports activities which we could, I don’t say volunteer, you had to do something. You chose which one you did. I could always recall one thing. At night we saw on the horizon, in the distance, a light. Masses of people up on deck and we watched this thing and we thought goodness me. It’s getting brighter and brighter. And I don’t know, recall when it was but it was enough to see it was a very highly illuminated ship. It was a hospital ship. We found out eventually, again on its own and illuminated to indicate, indicate that it was a hospital ship. So —
[Recording paused]
CB: Ok.
GT: Yeah. So generally fairly boring really. The thing had not a lot to it. I think most of us were concerned or very interested to what the future would be. The food on board was obviously supplied by, or most of it, from America because it was food lots and lots of us hadn’t come in to contact with and it was quite good really. Nothing really to complain about on the whole. And anyway, down to the Sargasso Sea and then turned back upwards. North westwards we’d be sailing to — New York we found was the destination. We didn’t know before but we glided in one morning. Beautiful sunny morning. I can remember seeing the Statue of Liberty going up to one of the docks in the Hudson River I believe it was the Hudson. And as I can recall how fascinating it was standing at the, on the deck looking out over New York early morning. Peering down at the dock from the huge height of this ship. And we carried on from there each of us individually not knowing what we were going to do. We got off the ship onto a train and the train took us up along through New England up to Canada. To Halifax. I’m sorry — to Nova Scotia. And we went through the New England states at the best time of the year to watch the trees’ colours. And it was just a phenomenal trip. Open mouthed in amazement we were. Apart from the American train being a great interest in itself. And when we got up to, it was Halifax we went to in Canada spent I think three or four days or nights there and then we got on to a train for a four day journey across Canada to Rivers. I don’t honestly remember whether I knew where we were going but this train was non-stop. I thought it was going across to the far side of Canada and our group was going to get off at Rivers which is about a hundred miles west of Winnipeg. Right bang in the middle of Canada. And at this Rivers — a very large airfield and it was a central training place for the Canadian Air Force and we got off there and then spent some six months or so training as a, to be a navigator. The amazing thing really about, I think that struck us first of all was the flatness of everything. The prairies. This was right in the middle of the prairies and they were just flat. We did a lot, quite a lot of classroom training to start with. Relevant to flying before we actually were allowed flying. We did our training, the navigators, in Ansons which had a couple, possibly three trainees in the back with a desk to work from in the rear half of the aircraft. Possibly two. I think it was, not very often three but certainly two and you had a navigation table where you were now learning the very basics of navigation flying. And it’s a very uncomfortable old aircraft but it’s quite good for observation outside and being a very flat country that was a help to you in that. In the way of training. You could see a long long way across the prairies. You would be able to navigate down the railway line which we say which went exactly east west and had various silos at places so there was very little detail on the ground which was the way we were navigating in these days. Observational navigation really. And lots of our exercises were along the Canadian/American border. Lots and lots of stuff was at night time. Again, that was much easier than it would have been elsewhere because it was still very flat and there were lights on of course in what cities that there were. There was supposed to be. They hadn’t shut off their lights yet. And Rivers itself was, strictly was a Canadian Air Force station and it was run much like an American one which is quite understandable because they were next door to each other and they were very much cooperating in their training and living. But they’d got enough space to take on and train a lot of people from the UK. And it was number, this was Number 1 Central Navigation School and it was 1 CNS which was where we were for the next six or eight months. We had a lot of sport. Particularly things like basketball and the indoor sports which I thoroughly enjoying doing. Outdoor was limited. Certainly in the winter by the weather. And it was all definitely indoors then. We had a great time when we had leave for weekends which we used to get. Possibly about once a month you’d get two or three days off for the weekends. So most of us went in to Winnipeg and we, through an organisation the Canadians had set up you could ask to go and stay with a family and they sort of adopted you which was very nice. I had a nice family and I went to stay with them always and they took me to learn ice skating and things like that. Or perhaps took me out to see some local thing of interest. I don’t know. All sorts of things. It was very interesting. But they were very good. And it also depended, I suppose on how much you wanted to integrate and see what, what they were doing. But it was also quite fascinating in Winnipeg itself to have all the shops open and everything else. And the massive great shops in Winnipeg. And I remember walking down the street just browsing in a shop window one day when somebody thumped me on the shoulder and said, ‘You’ve got frostbite.’ We had those hats on with little flaps on which pulled down. Which made sense there but which were not properly used in most places. But I was taken inside the big shop there. Immediately bustled in there and they, the shop keepers, shop assistants took over the care of me and whipped me into the first aid place straight away and apparently my ears were sort of second degree frostbite because they went blue and black. And if it had gone further on it goes to the stage where your lobe or you ear is actually frozen solid. Then you’ve got a problem because you’re quite probably going to lose that bit of your ear. And there were quite a lot of people around with little misshapen ears where they’d got frostbite. So after this they made me wait quite a while before going out and gave me various instructions of what to do when getting back to the camp. To go to the sickbay and treat it further. But it they said, ‘Do not ignore it. It will be quite serious if you don’t just take care of it and treat it.’ So that was a thing I did. From then on I was very very wary of not getting too cold. I knew I was cold but I didn’t realise just how cold it was. And that was, they responded very very quickly to this because they were all so used to it of course, or the possibility of it. And all in all it lasted years. I wrote letters to these people. Our friendship, somehow, it died off, and I don’t know quite why now, never could quite decide whether his mother and father of the family died or what happened. Years later during the war but our letters sort of eventually ceased. But we were great friends and it was very nice to have it. And it was about six, seven, eight months I was there roughly. I can’t be too sure and then eventually you passed out or either you did pass out as a navigator qualified or you, you failed. Sometimes you failed on just a short amount or small amount of study which they might give you to resit after another bit of training. But I passed and then that meant that you were on the return list for going back to the UK. Which in turn meant a train back to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Another four days. And then getting on a boat there. A day or two there. I can remember lots and lots of ships in the sea at Halifax. We were on the Empress of Scotland. Which we eventually ended up in [pause] wait a minute [pause]
CB: Can we just take a pause on that?
[Recording paused]
CB: So you talked about when you qualified as a navigator. What was the process that happened then?
GT: Well I think the, it must have been a series of marks you got over exams in different courses. I can’t remember them all but certainly the different courses I can clearly remember would be meteorology and aviation and how it affected weather or how weather affected you, the aircraft, and the performance etcetera. And the ability to operate in bad weather. That would be under meteorology. There was, wireless was another thing we had to do and we did do this. In part, I remember with wireless operators who were people who were training to be wireless operators but they went on to a much higher standard in the way of speed. But we, I think we were all required to get up to something like twenty words per minute in Morse code. And whereas a wireless operator would be up around seventy if he was a good one. And eventually yes that would be much much faster than we could be. But there was — wireless was another group. Map reading. There was a map reading construction. We learned quite a lot about the way different types of map locators and other maps were constructed and made. Why they, why one type of map was better for you if you were flying in a certain area or a certain way. So that was a series of, series of lectures. And, of course, with all these you had an exam at the end of it on which you were marked. You had, I said about a signals one.
CB: Astro navigation.
GT: We had astro a lot. Strict navigation was split into dead reckoning as they called it. DR which was dead reckoning which was calculating in your head using different pieces of information you got from [unclear] compass or speed that the pilot would give you and you had to calculate from these using your charts the information you needed to give to the pilot. The idea of the navigator was to produce [pause] produce the route that the aircraft would fly to get to a target at a certain time. You had initial information given to you. If you were going to go on a bombing raid you had a load of information given to you by the Met Office, probably more than anything else. And then you were given the route and the name of the target or whatever the target was. And you went — I think I’m jumping ahead here. This is really, it did, you did this in practice yes. So in practice we were given the target and you separated from the rest of the crews and you went to, say the navigation room and you had your charts with you and all the other information. And incidentally the navigator would always be recognised as being a navigator as he was always carrying loads of baggage. One was a sextant. At least one. May have two. A navigation bag which was full of books. And so you had two or three things plus your parachute to carry around with you. And you put your chart out on a table and you had a table to work on. And you would go and trawl or plot it as they called it. Your track from A to the target. A — the starting point, B — the target. But you went via a host of other places for various reasons either because you were told to at the briefing for various reasons which could be to say avoid you going over heavily defended area or fortified town or something.
CB: So this was all marked for you. This was all marked as part of your qualification. So we’re talking about the marking and the qualification.
GT: Yes.
CB: And then you qualified for your brevet?
GT: Yes. I’m sorry I’ve just —
CB: That’s ok. I’ll stop for a mo
[Recording paused]
CB: So you passed all the tests?
GT: Yeah.
CB: And then you got your brevet?
GT: Yeah.
CB: So, what, what happened then?
GT: Yeah [pause] I’m trying to think if I could give an order of things. I don’t think I can. I think I’ll start off [pause] So when you had or had not passed your course I can clearly remember that I was elated to pass the final thing which obviously meant that I now had my wings as it was called. But I also remember a young, little Scots lad, very small, very small boy. Whether he had a chip on his shoulder about being so small I don’t know but he was very touchy. But unfortunately he failed. He just could not get particular bits of his course and he was quite distraught about it, and another couple. So those people went back to the UK really. And they asked the rest of us, knew that we would shortly be going back but the first thing you did was, we were given the time for parade which was a good big parade of all the people on your particular course, and we were called out simply by names. Alphabetically as I remember it because I know I was always down at the end of it and it stayed that way with T. And you were called out and marched out and given a wing. A navigator’s wing which it now was. And congratulated and then passed on to whatever was going to happen. As far as you were concerned you just didn’t know but it wasn’t very long before we were advised we were going to be posted after that back to UK. And we obviously had a few days. Possibly a week maybe when you really weren’t doing very much you were floating about. And there wasn’t a great amount you could do out in Rivers. It wasn’t a big place in itself other than it was a huge farming area. So it was just a relaxing period prior to going back to the UK to start learning what navigation really was like. All we’d done up ‘til this stage was our own manual mental navigation without the help of outside things other than a compass or an airspeed indicator and that type of information. So we got the wings and waited a few days before the journey back to the UK and all the people on this course were from the UK so returned. Returned back. I believe some of the pilots split off in to different things for other reasons and went to different places. But that was separate. Ours all stayed together and went back to UK like that.
CB: What was the rank of the person?
GT: No. Nothing to do with the rank.
CB: No. Who gave you the brevet? [pause] The reviewing officer?
GT: Sorry?
CB: The reviewing officer.
GT: Well I don’t know whether if it was a wing commander or higher. I can’t remember whether it was a wing commander or a flight lieutenant but it would have been the senior man of The Central Navigation School. Because they had then to treat all these others as, not necessarily officers. It wasn’t to do with the rank whether you got the wings or anything to do anything else. It was purely the learning you learned in exactly the same way as those who later got promoted through their aptitude or because they showed aptitude that would make a good officer as far as they were concerned. The actual promotions were not done in Winnipeg.
CB: Right.
GT: Or in Rivers rather.
CB: What rank were you in training?
GT: Sergeant. I was then, after you got your wings you immediately were promoted to a sergeant.
CB: Right. Ok.
GT: And that was so until you got reviewed back in UK. Either after passing more courses or you showed that —
[Recording passed]
GT: Everything else. It was just we went there —
CB: So re-capping. Earlier you spoke about coming back from Nova Scotia on the Empress of Scotland.
GT: Yes.
CB: So where did you go from there?
GT: We arrived [pause] — yes, we went more or less directly I suppose but in a convoy more or less this time so it was a slightly different thing. But we ended up in Glasgow. At [pause] no I do beg your pardon. Sorry. Stupid me. I’m sorry, we didn’t go to Glasgow. That was going outwards. I ended up in Liverpool, I’m sorry. We docked at Liverpool and another train journey followed to Harrogate. Back to the same holding area as we were beforehand. And I can’t recall how long we were there. It wouldn’t have been very long. Sort of something like a week or so to maybe a bit more before we were all posted out to various stations which was the next line in training. And they were called OTUs which was Operational Training Units and I went to Abingdon as my OTU and that had a sub unit. An airfield about five, four or five miles away called Stanton Harcourt where we did most of the flying from. The head office part of it. And certain of the training was done at Abingdon but the vast majority at Stanton Harcourt and are now flying on Wellingtons which to us was a much bigger aeroplane. An operational type aeroplane and the first time we had become involved with an actual operational aeroplane.
CB: So when you got to Abingdon then you were individuals when you got there.
GT: Yes.
CB: So how did you crew up?
GT: Well we were all, yes, in expectation. We still were mostly with our friends from the course. But during this time the first part of it was, a few days to crew up with six other people to form a crew. And that basically was a system of the pilots were all, they knew they were pilots and they were really to get a crew together. And it was really done by either somebody’s individual qualifications making them stand out or, for some reason but obviously there weren’t very many of that, of those people because we were all just ordinary, ordinary bodies being trained. And so the group of gunners were one group which was treated separately. Engineers, pilots, wireless operators and navigator. And basically what it was — I think they had gatherings of different groups of people. They put, shall we say a lot of air gunners in which was quite easy to match up air gunners because they had no qualifications to know who or what but you can click with somebody. Which was good enough if the pilot wanted it to be and they built up their crew like that. The closest person to the pilot I suppose is the navigator from an operational point of view. But in operating the aircraft point of view was the engineer. So if you got on very well with somebody, you liked them, you immediately said, ‘Would you like to join my crew?’ Which, that was it. Either they’d say, ‘I’ve already got somebody,’ or, ‘No thank you.’ And gradually we, we got together with the crews. And I think I’d already met the wireless operator who I liked and we were chattering and finding we definitely liked each other which was good and the two gunners. One we had met and already met somebody so those two went together and had no other reason not to join us. So that was as haphazard as that. We all seemed to get on alright. The captain, or rather the pilot turned out to be a bit of a shock because he was a squadron leader and it was a squadron leader who was a full time air force. He was RAF permanent. That was it. And quite a lot older at the ripe old age, I expect, of about thirty, thirty five. I think he was. And an RAF man is all one can say. A serviceman properly. So he might and so might all the other ones who were permanent have thought what a rabble rousing lot these young people are because we’d be ten years younger than they were and certainly not instilled with the discipline that they had. But he seemed alright and he asked me if I, what he had obviously watched, I do remember him being there when we had done some test about aircraft recognition and I was fastest in the whole thing in identifying. That may have been the reason he thought, ‘Oh he seems to be reasonably sharp.’ But he asked me anyway and I said yes. I’d like to join. He was quite a bit more formal than the others. And it was rather strange in a way whereas the others would all mooch off together he would probably go back to the officer’s mess as he would normally do as his normal life in the air force. And he had, I don’t know where he did it but he joined up with somebody he liked as his flight engineer. Another officer. An Irishman.
[Doorbell rings]
GT: Shall I stop?
CB: Keep going. Keep going.
GT: So the [pause] so, sorry out of this what sounds like a muddle which in some ways it was because it was generally letting people get together and finding their own way which was a good basis for starting with seven people who have got to stay together for the rest of the war. So our seven people were picked that way. And we had, he was full time as I say. RAF officer. The Irishman engineer. Two gunners who, one was from just outside Newcastle, the other was from Leicester. The wireless operator was from London and quite a cockney voice. And that was it. Seven of us.
CB: The bomb aimer. The bomb aimer.
GT: The bomb aimer. Oh sorry. Bomb aimer. Cockney bomb aimer and he, I have to say it was wondering around with the navigators really. They were the closest in training side to what the navigator learned and so we were quite close in that part of the knowledge. They went into the bombing side of it more deeply obviously. And so that’s how the seven crew formed. And I’m not quite sure how long we were in Abingdon. But not too long we moved over to Stanton Harcourt to finally get to grips with an aeroplane. We now had the Wellingtons there so we were getting ready to be trained on that. Which again split us up a bit because pilots took their specialist training on it as did all the others. And the navigators were, the training would have been the same whether it was a Wellington or a Lancaster or whatever it might have been. But the individual learning for individual aircraft was obviously more important for the pilot and the engineer. The others would have got used to any aircraft and flown any. So that was the stage of our real training to start off towards operational flying. And we, I don’t recall the total length of time we were at Stanton Harcourt but say it was about six months but that’s an approximation. And the next step would have been the, what was called the HCU which was the Heavy Conversion Unit. There was only one thing I can remember that was really quite funny, or in a nasty way it was funny. At Stanton Harcourt we were doing an exercise once one day. And the bomb aimer had been practicing dropping a bomb over the ranges and was down in the nose of the Wellington and he had to climb or crawl underneath the captain and the flight engineer to get back into his position for landing, which he did. And then the flight engineer, what had happened, the door came open. The front hatch came open where the bomb aimer had been or was. And after landing, as they were taxiing in, I think, the flight engineer said to the skipper, ‘I think the bomb aimer has fallen out,’ and they seriously thought that the bomb aimer has fallen out. And he said, ‘Why didn’t you tell me that before landing?’ And he said, ‘Well I didn’t want to worry you.’ [laughs] But the full time air force mess, probably the full time pilot but it was a while before they realised he’d done this crawling underneath and they hadn’t noticed in the busyness of getting ready on the, to get to land. So it was quite funny at the time yet it wasn’t. And his sextant had fallen out and some other book that belonged to the air force and he was charged with losing RAF property. And it was on, that lasted with him for months afterwards it came through They were still after either these to be returned. I don’t recall whether he had to pay eventually or not but certainly he was quoted as being responsible for their loss. Because he’d left the, obviously didn’t locked the hatch properly in the time he was there. Or whoever was there rather didn’t lock it. So it was a semi-funny but it could have been a tragedy.
CB: Yeah.
GT: If it had happened.
CB: The sanctions were there as a way of —
GT: Sorry.
CB: The sanctions were there as a way of making a point weren’t they? Rather than it being important to pay.
GT: That’s right. Yeah.
CB: I think I’m right in saying that the engineer joined you at the HCU.
GT: Sorry?
CB: The engineer would have joined you at the HCU.
GT: Yes.
CB: So where was the HCU?
GT: The HCU was at indholme. We’d moved.
CB: And how did they, how did the captain, the pilot, select. Yeah. Go on.
GT: I’ll have to stop here.
CB: Yeah. I’ll stop for a mo.
GT: Yes.
[recording paused]
CB: We’re just, we’re just going to do a recap now. Yeah Go on.
GT: Yeah. Sorry about this. A sorting centre.
CB: Yeah.
GT: Went there. Wasn’t there very long before I and my great friend, as a navigator paralleled me and we were both posted to Ouston, near Newcastle. It’s O U S T O N.
CB: Yeah.
GT: I can’t remember the name of the unit but it was training or going to be trained for flying on Mosquitoes which was a great delight to us. It was what we had wanted to do. And it was an introduction really to the, purely to the work that would be required. Not for learning how to be a navigator or anything but learning how to operate, or operate the work that the Mosquito was doing. And it was the very early days of the night interception radar. Which as far as a navigator was concerned it consisted of two fairly small screens to look at. And to cut it short basically I was not quick enough in identifying the blip of an aircraft coming sharply towards us from the side. I couldn’t identify it from the grass on the screen quickly enough so it got too close to us. It could have shot us down which was the last thing we wanted. Why I don’t know but I just wasn’t, it was a case of seconds really but that would have been enough time for a fighter to get too close to us. And so I failed that part of it and although I was ok on the other sorts of it, it meant I couldn’t follow on the final posting off to a squadron which he did get and it was operating as a night interception Mosquito. So I was given a posting temporarily to Wigtown in Scotland which was another training. But it was a flying training station and I did some flying navigator training, navigational training rather. Flying from Wigtown around various exercises up and down the Irish Sea and over parts of the UK. Which was very different to anything I’d done before. But it was a temporary solution and we knew this that we were there for only a while. The biggest thing of interest was I think really it was terrible weather one night when masses of the aircraft returned to a foggy UK. And they had to divert from the east coast up to places like Wigtown on the west coast of Scotland. And in the morning we got up and went to breakfast and saw all these aircraft parked there and they were the various Halifaxes and Lancs, possibly Stirlings. I don’t remember that but we went to one aircraft, a Halifax, and half the tail was shot off and it really shook us up. You know they’d really had a tough time. And this was the first operational damage that we saw. So it was quite an eye opener. But that was part of that happening. That wasn’t our training. But that lasted for a few months before we got back again to Harrogate enroute down to the Operational Training Unit at Abingdon and Stanton Harcourt.
CB: What were you flying at Wigtown?
GT: It was, again it was Ansons, back to Ansons. I’m not sure whether I did one flight — no I didn’t. I don’t think so. It was all Ansons. A different mark of Anson. But it was nevertheless the same old aircraft.
CB: Good. I think we’ll stop there and reconvene another time.
GT: Sorry it was —
CB: Thank you very much.
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ATaylorGH160831
PTaylorGH1601
Title
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Interview with Gerald Taylor
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:33:24 audio recording
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
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2016-08-31
Description
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<p>Gerald (Gerry) was part of the Air Training Corps and Officers’ Training Corps before the war. He volunteered for aircrew in 1942, was interviewed in Oxford and was put on deferred service. Gerry was accepted as an air observer. He was called up in early 1943 and went to the Air Crew Reception Centre at Lord’s Cricket Ground. He was sent to an Initial Training Wing in Scarborough, before being posted to Harrogate and Ludlow while waiting for further training overseas.</p>
<p>Gerry sailed to New York and then on to Nova Scotia and Rivers in Canada where he spent six months training to be a navigator at the Number One Central Navigation School. Gerry describes how two or three navigators trained in the back of an Anson with a navigation table. He lists the different subjects they studied, the equipment they required and how they would plot a chart.</p>
<p>On his return to the UK, Gerry was sent to Harrogate and then posted to an Operational Training Unit at RAF Abingdon and its satellite RAF Stanton Harcourt. He was flying on Wellingtons. Gerry explains how they crewed up there. He then went to a Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Lindholme.</p>
<p>Gerry discusses his posting to RAF Ouston for training on Mosquitos, however he failed the night interception radar part. He was posted temporarily to RAF Wigtown for some navigational training before returning to RAF Abingdon.</p>
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--Lincolshire
Scotland--Dumfries and Galloway
Canada
Manitoba
Manitoba--Rivers
Temporal Coverage
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1943
1944
1945
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
crewing up
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
navigator
observer
Operational Training Unit
RAF Abingdon
RAF Stanton Harcourt
RAF Wigtown
recruitment
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/44/6645/ABarfootWE151208.2.mp3
1b5f298e0d48f0992512af90412e5b70
Dublin Core
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Title
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Barfoot, William
William Barfoot
W Barfoot
W E Barfoot
William E Barfoot
Description
An account of the resource
56 items. An oral history interview with William Ernest Barfoot (915770, 141457 Royal Air Force), and photographs of him school in India, during training and on operations with 296 Squadron. They include images of Albemarle and Halifax glider tugs, Horsa gliders, landing zones, and his wedding photographs.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Nigel Barfoot and catalogued by Terry Hancock.
Date
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2015-12-08
Identifier
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Barfoot, W
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IBCC Digital Archive
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB. My name is Chris Brockbank and I am with Squadron Leader William Barfoot and we are in Birmingham talking about his very varied experiences in the war. Bill would you like to start off with your early days, where you were born where you were schooled.
WB. I was born in Newcastle upon Tyne so I’m a Geordie, but I was taken to India when I was about six, five or six and I didn’t come back to just before the war. In India I went to that school the Laurence Memorial Royal Military School now called the Laurence School. It em its a military school in that you couldn’t go to the school unless you had been in the British Army or the British Navy, the Air Force wasn’t in great shape at that time, and your parents had to be one of those two. And then er I just had a secondary school education, I left school in 1936 and I went to Bombay University because the intention was to send me to either Oxford or Cambridge, both required Latin in those days and I hadn’t done Latin and I hadn’t done Latin because we done localised languages like Undra. So I went to the University to learn Latin and then eh, differences arose in the family of the financing of the thing so I left India altogether and eh came back to this country, when I came back to this country we [garbled] and so on. As a side line I was invited to stay at some Barracks in Woking, I forget the name of the Barracks now with the Father of two daughters, I eventually married one of them. [laugh]. I was twenty and seventeen, I actually met them in India before I came here, but they were in school and I was at a different school, so we didn’t really get to know each other until I came back to this country and I was seventeen. I was twenty and she was seventeen so that was a dangerous situation. I then got married and later on during the war, it’s the only dish. Incidentally I can’t give dates because we have lost the vital documents that would have given us this information, namely the flying log book and we have moved about four times after I left the Air Force and somewhere it has got lost. At least we haven’t found it yet, this is the point. So I can’t give you dates but I can tell you places I went to. I started off with, oh, I applied for a short service commission and I was accepted but then hostilities broke out. I then got a letter that cancelled the short service commission, so I then joined the Air Force as an Airman at a place I can’t remember now in London. We didn’t do much there except possibly square bashing, we were issued with uniforms and the usual sort of things, and the one, the one point when there, we were all given ten shillings in advance to buy blanco and shoe polish and what have you and it so happened that almost the same week there was a pay parade and we of course had to attend because discipline required it. There, there was a chap called Manning, that’s right. Puffy Manning we called him because he was a bit plump. The drill was of course, the Accounting Officer he would sit at the table and he would have an accounting Airman there. The Airman would call out your name and you would actually, this was the last three numbers of your name, walk up to the desk, salute and collect the money. Well Puffy Manning did all this correctly and the Clerk read out two shillings and sixpence. The Accounting Officer put a half crown on the thing. Puffy Manning tossed it up in the air and it bounced off the table and Puffy Manning said “buy yourself a cigar Sir.” Apparently the Station Warrant Officer nearly fainted and he said “arrest that man” and of course he was taken away to the Guard Room. He was very lucky because his Flight Commander was quite sympathetic and let him off with a caution. So anyway that’s what happened at that place which I can’t remember now. Em after that, where did I go then? Oh went to,” Nigel what’s the name of that place where we came in?”
Nigel “Kidderminster”
WB. Kidderminster, yes where there was a [unreadable] where we did one, to the front salute and all that sort of stuff, sort of bashing. After that I was taken to an airfield called Hullavington which was near Chippenham and over there, it was at the time when there was a fear of German invasion you know Dunkirk was just over. We were issued with obsolescent Canadian rifles and five rounds of ammunition to deal with the invasion of the Germans. Eh, Eh one night an old German aircraft flew over the airfield and scattered a few bombs on the airfield. We then said this is it you know, this is the invasion. So we all rushed out to our appointed positions but then it all went quiet and nothing happened. We stayed there for about two hours and suddenly there was a shot and the Orderly Officer went to see what it was all about. The airman said “I saw a movement down there and challenged him three times, he didn’t answer, so I shot.” He shot a horse, the Farmer was exactly delighted the next day. Anyway that’s what happened at Hullavington.
I worked in the cookhouse funnily enough there and eh [garbled] a parade a [unreadable] parade. I worked in the cookhouse and we were excused the parade. We used to all stand there and present arms with a broom and sing here comes the Air Vice Marshall he’s got lots and lots of rings but only got one arsehole.[laugh] Anyway from there, from Hullavington I then went to Yatesbury eh, and Compton Bassett, both close together and where I trained as a Wireless Operator eh. I was, we flew in Dragons I think or whatever they were called.
CB. Dragon Rapide
WB. That’s right Dragon Rapide, for practice at sending messages and receiving messages on the flight. I don’t know how long the course lasted but it was quite long. I learnt morse, its abolished now, but I tell you what, my morse code. Everybody who learns morse never forgets it and I got up to about twenty two words a minute which was quite good at that time. After Yatesbury and Compton Bassett I then was posted to Digby to Number 46 Squadron, Hurricanes as a Wireless Operator. We did sort of servicing on the Aircraft. The Squadron was then moved down to eh, forgot the name of the place to eh, Sherburn in Elmet which is in Yorkshire. My Squadron moved down there and shortly afterwards they eh, were detailed to go out to the Middle East. I was held back because I had volunteered for Aircrew. I told the admin staff and the next thing was to go down to London to ACRC which we called arsey tarsey of course. You get a written examination, virtually all maths and eh after that I was sent to Downing College in Cambridge where we did our initial training, were we learned the various fundamentals of the various activities in the Air Force. After Cambridge, after that eh, oh my next movement was to the EANS or Elementary Air Navigation School at a place near Brighton. Town near Brighton.
Prompt. Where at Eastbourne.
WB. At Eastbourne, we occupied the Eastbourne Grammar School and eh and that’s where we learned the very early functions of Navigation. After that, which place did I go from there? Oh yes I think it was called Heaton or High Heaton or something like that, it was the holding place for people travelling abroad. And so ah, I was put aboard an aircraft, I have forgotten the name of the ship, they were all Castle ships, something Castle you know and eh. We sailed first to Brazil of all places eh where we went ashore and were made very welcome and eh we crossed over to Capetown and eh we got off at Capetown and went by rail to a place called Grahamstown which is the sort of University town of South Africa where we were made very welcome because most of the people there were of British origin, so we had a lovely time there. Then we began to train Navigation seriously, flying in Ansons with South African Pilots and I forgot how long the course took. I think it took quite a time about six months, I could be wrong eh. I was then Commissioned as a Pilot Officer and we went to another ship of course to cross the Atlantic with the Italian prisoners of war. We put them out in New York and filled the, and filled the boat or ship with American soldiers to come back to the UK. Funnily enough I remember it was the time the Dambusters broke the Dams and the New York papers were full of it and they made a great fuss of us did the Americans. I remember two of them, when I was with a friend and someone stopping me to give me theatre tickets to go in. Incidentally the pound was worth four dollars in those days so it was quite expensive. Anyway we then sailed back to UK I think we went to Greenock I think, I can’t really remember we were given two, two weeks holiday on leave, eh. That’s when I went to, the only days I can remember for that period is the 27th of May Nineteen fift, Nineteen forty three which is of course the date I got married. I subsequently lived with her for sixty nine and a half years and then she died. Then we went back and went to Wigtown which is in Scotland, that was an advanced flying unit we flew in Ansons and then we went to Kinloss. When we went to Kinloss the funny thing that happened we were just turned into a room, a crowd of people, most of whom were Sergeants and told to form Crew em. Inevitably because there were more Sergeants than anything else I ended up in a Crew where I was the only Officer the rest were all Sergeants. We then had a mixed period which I forget. I remember an airfield and a road travelling through it, I can’t remember what the name of the airfield was. And we very shortly found out why we were sent on various courses. I was sent on a Gee course, Gee was then the, the very sensational Navigation Aid. The first time we had anything that was anything like accurate you know sort of like Astro Navigation you were jolly lucky to get ten miles from your accurate position. Where as with Gee you got right to the spot and it was absolutely sensational. The other thing I did during that period I did a map reading course in Tiger Moths at Worcester Race Course and just flew around, very happy times. I got on very well with the Pilot had a go of flying the Tiger Moth but we were all over the place.
The reason being off course, we were being held back for 296 Squadron, which had, was returning from the Middle East and. We were held back because we were going to reinforce them and they were, where were they? Earls Colne that where they reformed. I was made the Squadron Navigation Officer because we only had two Officers amongst the Navigators and This is where we went with Albemarle’s for the first time, we never heard of Albemarle’s before, it was the only aircraft in the RAF that had a tricycle undercarriage and therefore very suitable for glider towing. You know the glider goes off first and then you go off and, and eh we started operating from there [Garbled]. We later moved to Brize Norton and Brize Norton became our permanent base. But we flew from Earls Colne for quite a while. We spent time reinforcing French Resistance Groups but obviously it was a slow process because you had to organise the Group. They also did Norway as well in the Albemarles. The Albemarle was a very bad aircraft for the Navigator because they had forgotten that they needed a Navigator. It had switches all over the place, down there, up there later on when we converted to Halifax’s it was absolute luxury to have all these instruments in front of you. But eh, eh, anyway we flew surprise Resistance Groups, they didn’t come too often because, obviously I had to organise the Groups carefully because the Gestapo were on the lookout all the time. We used to fly round about six thousand feet and then we would have to find the Resistance Group which usually had four torches in a field in the form of an arrow and the bottom line of the arrow would flash a code, Morse code, which we had been given. When we saw that we dropped down to about five hundred feet and dropped the supplies and flew on so the Gestapo didn’t see, the whereas, dropped there and turning away and that’s what we did. We did one or two in Norway as well but Norway was a bit frightening because it was a bit mountainous compared with France.
The other thing was our other function on Special Operations was towing of gliders. It was obvious there was going to be a big glider operation and they needed these Crews trained. The trouble with the, with towing gliders is A. Your speed drops, you get down to Anson speeds and secondly you can’t manoeuvre because you have a glider full of Troops behind you. So when we went on and we did the first one was D day, when you went on these Operations you had a very hairy Fighter Escort. You needed it because you were very vulnerable funnily enough we didn’t lose many because by then we had complete Air Superiority and eh you didn’t get too much interference. We did two other glider operations, one was at Arnhem in Holland and that was a disaster. Not from the air point of view we dropped them all in the right place at the right time. The thing was the Intelligence had not discovered there was a German Armoured Division in Holland and of course our Troops who were Airborne Troops were comparatively lightly armed of course they suffered very heavy casualties and eh. They were supposed to capture the Bridge at Nijmegen so the Second Army I think it was could proceed on and race towards Berlin, but they never got the Bridge of course. As I have said they had very heavy casualties and eh, that was that.
The third operation that we had with gliders was eh, Rhine crossing and we were getting near the end of the war there and eh, the eh, Germans put some of the Troops, in the woods resting from Operations, not too far away and eh so we were detailed for the first time ever to carry bombs. Bye the way we now had converted to Halifax’s for the [unreadable]. We had Albemarle’s for the other two eh, for the Rhine crossing we had Halifax’s which were much better. All your equipment from the Navigator point of view, direct compass everything, everything, APR all the lot was in the one compartment. You could see it all in front of you where as in the Albemarle you were doing this sort of thing. The other advantage of the Halifax, I sat on the escape hole but we didn’t need to use it. We did in fact loose our Rear Gunner, but that was not our aircraft. His friend had a girlfriend in the local village and he had a date with her that night so Jimmy Osall who was our Rear Gunner offered to stand in for him, instead of him, never came back. After that more or less the war was beginning to end then we flew eh, incidentally we did convert to Stirling’s before we went to Halifax’s but fortunately we never used the Stirling. Something I didn’t mention when I spoke about Kinloss, we flew Whitley’s there and, and, it was known as the flying coffin of course and it was a very slow aircraft, only had two engines , it was supposed to be a bomber. We did cross country flying but they didn’t risk sending us on Operations in them because we would never have come back.
Anyway we then flew VIPs, from,who fled to England during the Invasion by and large VIPs we flew them to Oslo. We also flew eh, Concentration Camp survivors to Greece, we did two of those and I think that was the end of the war and I was then posted to, oh yes I was posted to Staff Navigator Course after the war ended and eh and I was posted to when I had done the course, I done that at Shawbury by the way. When I done that course I was, I was em where was I then, oh yes I went to join 242 Squadron it was a Transport Squadron flying to the Far East. Eh, we were stationed at Oakington in Cambridge. Then we were moved to a place near Christchurch, Mosley, Mousley something like that Moseley which upset my Wife quite much because she got really settled in Cambridge and rather liked it and so did I. So I got onto the Navigation Boss, where was he? I have forgotten where he was and I said I wanted to go back to Cambridge. So eh ah they managed to sort it out, so I left 242 Squadron and went back to Cambridge, this time to Waterbeach which was also a Cambridge airfield, or was. Then vacancies were coming up the Air Force was running short, we hadn’t got a third category of Navigator, a specialist Navigator and a specialist Navigator was supposed to liaise with Scientists on possible uses for Navigation purposes. Em so I went on that course, also to Shawbury, Shawbury[unreadable] Empire Navigation School. Was then the central Navigation School for Navigation purposes and that’s where I went for the and then after that I was posted to er, where was it, near Darlington.
Interruption. Middleton St George.
WB. Middleton St George, yes Middleton St George where I was teaching Navigation to Bomb Aimers who had converted to Navigators em and eh. Then after that I then ended up to, to em oh that incidentally is when Nigel was born. I went to, we went to Ceylon where we were stationed at Degummed airfield. Em [unreadable] nothing there and then after about a year in Ceylon I was posted to Singapore and eh in Singapore, I was promoted to Squadron Leader then. I became Airhead Forces Malaya Navigation Representative and eh and advised them on Navigation. What did we do, I did do .The Korean War was on at the same time and some of our aircraft in Malaya were taking part in the war, mostly Flying Boats that were patrolling the seas around Korea. They were having trouble with the long range Navigation aid that the Americans had invented [unreadable] to Gee. They were having trouble with it, so I was sent via Hong Kong out in another Flying Boat to see if they could correct it which I succeeded to do and I flew on ops in Korea in the Flying Boat. And also at the same time we got a Typhoon, or what are the local thingies called, probably call a Tsunami now, which badly damaged one of the Flying Boats. So I got signal back from HQ Malaya to investigate the damage to this Flying Boat. I then came back to the UK, I then came back to Singapore and that’s when I came to the UK.
Then I went to the Air Ministry for about a year and then I was posted to Castle Bromwich as Station Commander. I em, we still had several lodger units there. 7 Police District, an ATC unit and Army AOP Flight, 2605 Fighter Control eh Fighter Exercise. We had several aircraft Austers and AOP Flight I forget what they flew, gliders for the ATC, University Air Squadron, Chipmunk, they were on our eh, my airfield and I think that was about it, the lot of them. Eh after that I was posted, I oh, I did two years or we did two years at Castle Bromwich where we did Battle of Britain Displays each and we were eh, highest in the Country. I don’t know if it was because the people of Birmingham were very generous. I think part of it was that we had the British Industries Fair at the side. We done quite well out of that I should think we charged them a pound for parking there eh that pushed up the Benevolent fund and we did quite well out of it I should think.
Then I got my last posting which was to run the Staff Navigation Course at Shawbury. So I had three goes at Shawbury. I liked Shawbury it was one of my favourite airfields and then I left the Air Force. And and Then I went over to BMC as the em Career and eh ah as the representative to the Caribbean that was [laugh] that was a treat. It was just after, we were still on rations in this country and to go there on one of the Islands and order a steak and get something about that big, it was quite an experience. Anyway from then on of course I was in Civvy Street. So I eh finished up doing Management Training in eh training. I was an expert in a technique called [unreadable] which was problem solving and decision making and eh, “what was the other course?” [little confused] “my minds going” [pause].
Nigel? “Transaction Analysis.”
CB. Transaction Analysis yes.
CB. We’ll have a break now.
WB. Yeah. I carried on teaching at, it wasn’t BMC any longer or Leyland as it had been called. But I did several courses for er for the Systems which eventually became, eventually became Unipart didn’t it? I ran a few courses and then no more and lapsed into old age.
CB. What age did you retire?
WB. Sixty five I retired but I still continued to go back to run the odd course. I’d just got paid a fee. That’s about it.[pause]
CB. You ok?
[Possibly a break in the recording]
WB. Its called Decca
CB. We are just talking about Gee and the fact that the Germans jammed it, but you could tell they were jamming it. How did that show on the screen?
WB. The screen went all like that eh eh.
CB. What was the next system?
WB. It was, well Bomber Command resorted to Pathfinders where they used Mosquitoes with things like H2S and eh and other eh quite a lot of stuff that the Mosquitoes carried and they marked the target with em.
CB. With coloured flares ?
WB. With coloured flares, yes and they presumably new the colours beforehand so the Germans could not mark, put these things into operation.
CB. So after, you said there was a different system after Gee, what sort.
WB. Decca
CB. How did that work.
WB. It was similar to Gee, it was very, Gee had a very short range compared with the other things. Decca had a better range, the thing about Decca was that it could be made to give you the wrong information without you realising it. In other words it was possible for the enemy or the Germans if you like to make the Decca instrument read something else and you would not know.
CB. And that’s what they did?
WB. The RAF refused to have anything to with it. They did Air Commodore Death, he was flying over the North Pole they did use Decca for that occasion. But then of course the war was long over, but they wouldn’t touch it as a eh eh Navigational Instrument. In fact now they don’t even have Navigators so never mind eh. Now they have all these Satellites and Computers and what have you and Laser Beams. They don’t need Navigators, they don’t need Wireless Operators either, there is no need for Morse. I eh as far as I know the Tornado isn’t eh doesn’t carry defensive guns as far as I know.
CB. Can we go back to when you were doing your Flying Training in South Africa.
WB. Yes.
CB. So you done Ground School already in the UK, what did you do in your Training in South Africa?
WB. Flew in Ansons all over the, all over South Africa and,
CB. So what were the exercises that you did ?
WB. Normal Navigation, cross country ones, but we did not have much in the way of Navigation Aids you know. You could, you could get beams from wireless beams but they weren’t particularly accurate and certainly astro was bloody awful. I mean you were very lucky[laugh] to be within twelve miles of where you really were.
CB. Why was that, was it because it took so long or it was difficult to see?
WB. No the sextant was a bottle sextant which moves about of course and you had to go for a whole, yet, have very accurate watch, for a minute do a, and then you averaged it out eh well cause you, you, used to have a song about eh “The bubble goes right and something goes left” I can’t remember.
CB. So in practical terms, in practical terms you were taking three fixes to get each.
WB. No, three position lines.
CB. Three position lines.
WB. To get a fix, but you very often found the position lines didn’t bear any relation to each other. Astro, to be honest I never used Astro except practicing on the ground. I never used it for Flying. No never. We once got em, in a Halifax, we once got struck by lightning and all the magnetical things all went hay wire so we had to come back on Gee [laugh] and eh and the Astro compass yeah. There was a lovely story when, Death, Air Commodore Death was flying round the North Pole. You have a problem with the North Pole because whatever way you go you go South, so they had to use Grid Navigation. But Anyway they landed at some place or other and er and Airman or somebody or maybe an NCO was taking, allocating rooms in the Mess and eh said “AC Death” and he said to the Air Commodore “AC1 or 2?” and the Air Commodore said “Air Commodore actually” and the chap said “that will be the day.”
CB. These anecdotes are very good. So just going back to the Flying Training. How long were you doing that, you were flying daylight but you sometimes flew at night didn’t you, in South Africa?
WB. No in South Africa we never flew at night, I can never remember flying at night but we flew all the time. We did a lot of flying in Anson’s and of course we did a lot of theoretical work. I remember we used to make fun of their accent, the South African accent especially when they were talking about the guns the rear guns. And talking about the Hood, they used to say Hoood. We used to say to him how goo get us the Hoood. [laugh]
CB. But they took it in good stead.
WB. Oh yes, we used to get on very well with the South Africans they were quite pleasant of course they were in the war.
CB. At what point were you awarded your flying brevet?
WB. Oh immediately we finished the course in South Africa. I remember I could you, eh, I had to buy them in the local shop, you had to get your first uniform made there but there were no Navigator half moons, half wings. They were the old “O”
CB. So you were the Observer.
WB. That’s why when we got married I was wearing the “O”
CB. Did you then convert to Navigator or did you have the Observer brevet?
WB. I changed to Navigator because I thought it sounded much better and more prestige than Observer. Totally after that I changed to Navigator brevet. Of course that doesn’t exist now, well it does in theory.
CB. Right, different. So as an Observer you didn’t just do Navigation, what else did you do? Because you done Air Bombing.
WB. No we had a Bomb Aimer who did that, I tell you what we used to introduce ourselves to the soldiers that we were carrying in the Gliders and we all had our names here. It was all very well oh when I went bye or a Pilot went by they always looked with natural horror, his name was Coffin [laugh] yeah.
CB. On the Albemarle, the Armstrong Whitworth Albemarle was a fairly rare aeroplane?
WB. I think five or six hundred were made and about two hundred of them were sent to Russia. Yes I wouldn’t say it was the best aeroplane to fly particularly from the Navigators point of view, you had no room, your table, your navigation table was folded over your lap. And eh when we went to the Halifax they had a proper laid out table and everything was marvellous, ah God.
CB. So flying the Albemarle what were you doing, were you dropping supplies to the Macys or the Resistance in General, how did the Operation go?
WB. We were particularly successful in fact my Pilot, as usual in the Air Force the Pilot was the one who usually got decorated because eventually the effect. The fable was you decorated the whole crew by giving the Pilot the DFC or whatever or DSO. Then we changed you know, when in the Air Force we changed every two years, so after about two years’ time you had no recognition saying you were a Navigator or whatever or Wireless Operator. The only person who had any recognition was the Pilot. Very few Navigators eh most of the Navigators who got mostly decorated were mainly Pathfinders ones. Eh not many, occasionally when something happened perhaps they got the odd DFC. Bye and large the Pilots always got the Gong which we thought was unfair. The other thing we thought was unfair was when the Canadians came over the Canadian Navigators had double wings eh so we thought we ought of have double wings. So would you believe it the Air Ministry decided to put it to the vote of Aircrew em as to whether they wanted the double wings. Of course there were far more Pilots than ever was Navigators. So of course they voted against it, so of course we never did get the double wings. But the Canadians had it and the Americans did too. The Americans had the double wings but eh, but eh.
CB. Can you talk us through an Operation when you are supplying the Macys?
WB. Well eh yeah, you were given a very short interval in which to drop, about five minutes, you weren’t allowed any more than five minutes because that would give away the position of the Macys. So you eh ah the Navigational had to be very accurate. If you didn’t make contact in the field in the time given you had to return to Base em with the material. As I said you had three lights, three torches that’s all they were. Three there and one at the side, with the one at the side like a nail formation and that one there would be flashing a code number which we had been given beforehand. And eh when the ere when the eh, the thing that annoyed me my Pilot got the same decoration as I got last week, this French decoration He got his during the war or just to the end of the war [unreadable] but the thing was he only did what he was told. I mean you gave him the Flight you gave him the Course the Height to fly at, the eh Airspeed. You kept changing the airspeed so that you arrived at the correct time because as I say you only had a short time to deliver the [unreadable]. When we eh when we spotted the lights, the Bomb Aimer would be in position, we would drop height down to about five hundred feet and drop the supplies and back. We normally flew at about six thousand, six or seven thousand but I tell you what as the Navigator I always gave the Pilot a thousand feet to much if you eh if the high ground was seven thousand feet I always gave him eight thousand to fly. I was all eh we lost a couple of aircraft in Norway because of this, well they didn’t put a safety margin on the flight.
CB. How difficulty was to find this Target, on your own that is, it is not with any other aircraft.
WB. Very difficult, we once got chased by a Fighter but he eh um he didn’t shoot. We did a Corkscrew, we were at our proper height then. The beauty, the reason that we dropped down to five hundred feet, the Fighters couldn’t fly underneath you [laugh] they would fly into the ground if they did. But eh but we never did, never had a Fighter contact at the time we were dropping, it was always clear and eh as I say eh you had a fifty, fifty chance of finding them, you only had, you were out of range of Gee. The Pathfinders of course had many other aids other than Gee. I mean they had bending beams and things and cross beams that were active when they were over the target. All the Navigators that I met who were well decorated were Pathfinder ones. Oh apart from the, there was the odd one from the eh, Dambusters.
CB. Oh Yeah. When you eh were looking for the sight of the Dropping Zone did they tend to be in wooded areas or were they in open fields or where were they.
WB. It would depend on what part of France it was, if it was the unoccupied part it would tend to be open ground. If it was the occupied part eh, we would look for some sort of cover if you could get it yeah em, but em.
CB. How many passes could you do?
WB. Oh we were only allowed one.
CB. Only one ?
WB. Yeah, because you didn’t have time to do any others. The Resistance Group would hear the aircraft coming and they would put on their torches, immediately we saw the torches we would drop and eh to supply them. We used to supply them with generally stuff to sabotage and so on to blow up railway lines and bridges. The idea was, they didn’t operate, or not very much until D Day and then they started mining all the things to delay any German reinforcements.
CB. And eh the Bomb Aimer was the person responsible for dropping, so there were static lines attached to the stores. How were they dropped, with a parachute?
WB. No they were more or less dropped as [unreadable] they were wrapped up, they weren’t on parachutes.
CB. They weren’t.
WB. No.
CB. Did you ever drop supplies by parachute?
WB. No but eh the night before D Day, 296 Squadron, I wasn’t on that 296 Squadron dropped parachutes, parachute Troops to seize a bridge, I forget the name of it but it is very famous, the Bridge.
CB. So on D Day what was your task?
WB. Our task was to drop the er Paratroops, the Gliders we dropped those behind the lines.
CB. Was this in daylight or at night?
WB. In daylight, the one that captured the bridge were dropped by parachute, that was night. It was the night before D Day but em. On D Day I remember the whole blinking sea seemed to be full of ships. I just couldn’t believe it and we flew over them. We were then stationed at Brize Norton which is now quite a famous airfield.
CB. When you were towing gliders, what height are you flying?
WB. Eh, I can’t remember exactly but I think about two to three thousand.
CB. What speed were you able to make?
WB. [laugh] Anson speed about a hundred em hundred and twenty perhaps, if you were lucky, sometimes slower than that.
CB. Because the speed is governed by what the Glider can do.
WB. Yes, well you just tow the glider along and the glider has control whither he has the release, not the Tug as we were called, we didn’t. We usually spoke to them before they were released to say good luck and what have you.
CB. So as well as the rope, it was a rope that tied you to the glider.
WB. I mean we dropped that, we were usually given a dropping zone for that.
CB. Back in Britain?
WB. No, by the Target, yes because we didn’t want to fly with a rope, [laugh] spare rope behind us. Yeah we, I think on D Day 296 Squadron we lost one aircraft.
CB. So how many other glider trips did you take for the Invasion?
WB. The Invasion, the Invasion only the one they did we, er there were other Squadrons, there was 297 doing the same sort of thing, they were stationed at Harwell. We had Halifax’s, 38 Group were equipped with the first Halifax’s, we didn’t have them but they were in the group they were used. Funnily enough eh they towed a different glider. We towed a Horsa which carried troops. They towed a thing called a, “what was it called?” Hamilcar, yes that’s it.
CB. That had guns in it?
WB. That carried a small tank and of course the small tank was no match for the German Armoured Division, no. That that was Montgomery’s idea apparently [unreadable] Eisenhower and it was a disaster. Only because they didn’t know, they would never have sent them had they knew there was a German Armoured Division there.
CB. Are we talking about Arnhem now or are we talking about Normandy landings, you were just taking troops?
WB. Normandy landings we just flew over the top we got em the. I think some parachutists were dropped, their purpose was to try to immobilise the guns. I think that is what the Americans unfortunately dropped their parachutists in the wrong place or too far away and they suffered terrible casualties, compared with the British and Canadians. But it is so old now seventy five years or whatever.
CB. Long time.
WB. It is a long time, in fact I’m surprised, I suppose it’s the role played that I remember so much. I wouldn’t have thought at ninety six to remember as much as I do remember, but I don’t remember all of it.
CB. So when you were towing the glider, were you the lead Navigator yourself?
WB. No each aircraft had its own Navigator. The Americans had a lead Navigator scheme but I think they gave that up after a while, because if you got the Leader shot down you were in trouble to a certain extent.
CB. You were the Squadron Navigation Officer weren’t you?
WB. Yes I was Squadron Navigation Officer then Station Navigation Officer then HQ Malaya Navigation.
CB. Over a period of years?
WB. Oh I loved Singapore was lovely, that was a posting that.
CB. But in that case you gave up towing gliders at the end of the war.
WB. Oh yes, gliders were never used again. They were very expensive the er em. The Germans invaded Crete with parachutists and they made the mistake of parachuting the ammunition separately [laugh] and eh the British Tommies had a Hell of a time for a while until the Germans were able to reinforce and eh eh, funny.
CB. OK we will stop there for a bit.
CB. So Bill what was the most memorable thing that you did, do you think?
WB. The most memorable thing was the Ground Crew of 296 decided to hold a raffle or call it what you like, that sort of thing. They collected money from all of the Ground Crew and decided they would award the money to the first aircraft to make touch down. We were first and eh our Ground Crew goes cheering to the roof you know because they would collect the money. Some Ground Crew serviced more aircraft, I don’t know what arrangements they had for that. We taxied back to the dispersal with cheers and whoops and what have you. We were then at Brize Norton.
When we went to. I didn’t mention, when we went to Arnhem we flew to Manston and, and in order to get closer to the Target because Albemarle’s hadn’t the range of the Halifax. So we flew down there, but the thing that I remember was that there were Americans at Manston and eh our first Meteors had appeared and they couldn’t understand how these aircraft were flying without propellers [laugh].
CB. Meteor Jets yes.
WB. Yes
CB. What was the level of loss on the Squadron, how many aircraft were lost?
WB. I don’t know off hand.
CB. Was it a regular occurrence?
WB. No not, the sort of Operation we were doing supplying the Resistance Group, it didn’t pay the German Air Force to go chasing after one er aircraft, so by in large we were never attacked. Although there is a, I’ve got a picture in the album. Incidentally, I don’t know if you want to look at the Album when I got this French Decoration, three weeks later we were there.
CB. We will look at that in just a moment thank you.
WB. Yes that was the only thing, it’s funny how you remember small things connected to big things. You get some small incidents that occur and a great big thing like D Day you remember the Ground Crew gathering on your return to Base.
CB. How was the relationship between the Aircrew and the Ground Crew.
WB. Oh very good, very, very good yeah we knew them all by name, they were always there with a smile.
CB. We are going to stop there because time has run out so thank you very much indeed.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with William Barfoot
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending OH summary
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
Bill Barfoot was born in Newcastle upon Tyne. On joining the Air Force, he trained as a wireless operator but remustered as aircrew. He trained as a navigator in South Africa. He flew operations with 296 Squadron supplying the French and Norwegian Resistance, towing troop gliders to Normandy, Arnham and the Rhine.
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-08
Contributor
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Hugh Donnelly
Format
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01:10:19 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ABarfootWE151208
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Germany
Great Britain
Greece
Netherlands
Norway
South Africa
England--Essex
England--Oxfordshire
England--Kent
South Africa--Makhanda
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
296 Squadron
aircrew
Albemarle
Anson
Dominie
Gee
Halifax
Hamilcar
Horsa
military service conditions
Morse-keyed wireless telegraphy
navigator
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Castle Bromwich
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Earls Colne
RAF Hullavington
RAF Manston
RAF Shawbury
RAF Yatesbury
Resistance
Stirling
Tiger Moth
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/380/6891/MHattersleyCR40699-160506-030001.2.pdf
285015105f751b1a073cff037b679249
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hattersley, Peter
Peter Hattersley
C R Hattersley
Charles Raymond Hattersley
Description
An account of the resource
77 items. The collection concerns Wing Commander Charles Raymond Hattersley DFC (1914-1948, 800429, 40699 Royal Air Force). Peter Hattersley served in the Royal Engineers between 1930 and 1935 but enlisted in the RAF in 1936. He trained as a pilot and flew with 106, 44 and 199 Squadrons. He completed 32 operations with 44 Squadron but had to force land his Wellington in France on his first operation with 199 Squadron in December 1942. He became a prisoner of war. He married Miss Kathleen Hattersley nee Croft after the war. The collection contains his logbook, notebooks, service material, his decorations and items of memorabilia in a tin box and 39 photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Charles William Hattersley and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Date
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2016-05-06
Identifier
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Hattersley, CR
Access Rights
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
HATTERSLEY
SERVICE DIARY
ROYAL AIR FORCE
LARGE NOTE BOOK
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
[underlined] 27TH. LONDON BTN R.E. (TA)
(London Elec. Engineers)
Nov 1930 – Dec 1935
[bracketed] Sapper L/Cpl Cpl [/bracketed] 306 Coy.
Lewis Sun. Sound Locator. Driver M.T.
[page break]
[underlined] 600 (CITY OF LONDON) B. SQDN AAF [/underlined]
Feb 1936 – Mch 1937
[inserted] ACH [/inserted]
AC.2 W/OP T.21 & TF. T.R.9.D.
Hant (passenger) 6 hrs
[page break]
[underlined] R.A.F.V.R. [/underlined]
Mch 30th 1937 – 3rd Apl 1938
Sgt.
[bracketed] Blackburn B.2 Hant (T) Audax [/bracketed] Flying Training Flt Hanworth Aerodrome
Assessment – above average pilot.
[page break]
[underlined] RA.F.
READING CIVIL SCHOOL
4th April 1938 – 7/5/38
MilesHawk Trainer & Magister
UXBRIDGE
7/5/38 – 21/5/38
NO 6 F.T.S.
Netheravon 21/5/38 – 4/9/38
L. Rissington 4/9/38 – 17/12/38
Audax & Hart (T)
Attachments.
NO.1 A.T.C. CATFOSS
31/10/38 – 4/12/38
Assessment – above average pilot
[page break]
S. of AN. MANSTON
2/1/39 – 11/3/39
Anson (1st & 2nd Navigator)
Obtained 2nd cl. Nav ticker (R.A.F.)
106 (B) SQDN. THORNABY (“B” flt)
11/3/39 –
Regarded as P.O. 7/3/39
Fairy [underlined] Battles [/underlined]
Dual .35 mins to solo
Avro [underlined] Ansons [/underlined]
Dual 1 1/2 hrs to solo
Handley Page [underlined] Hampdens [/underlined]
Dual 1 1/2 hrs to solo
July assessment – Pilot – average Navigator – above average
[page break]
[duplicated bookmark]
[page break]
[underlined] 106 Sqdn (contd) [/underlined]
Made Sqdn Signals Officer abt 10/7/39 (Blackpool)
19/8/39. Squadron moved to Armament Training Camp Evanton
4/9/39 Squadron moved to Cottesmore
6/10/39 Squadron moved to Finningley.
10-11-39 Made Regional Control Officer [deleted] 10-11-39 [/deleted]
(& Sigs. Officer)
[bracketed] 1/1/40 26/1/40 [/bracketed] Astro Course at St Athan
28/1/40 Finningley made Sqdn. Navigation Officer.
[photograph of a Handley Page Hampden aircraft]
[page break]
[underlined] 44 Sqdn. Waddington [/underlined]
15/6/40
Posted to 44 Sqdn ‘B’ flt.
17/5/40 1st Operational flight [underlined] over Germany [/underlined]
Hamburg 4 x 500 lb G.P. bombs
Won D.F.C. (& navigator DFM). Crew [bracketed] Windle Atkinson Edmunds [/bracketed]
L.4154 (Q)
14/9/40 Posted to SHQ. & act. Flight Lieutenant
[inserted two newspaper cuttings]
[indecipherable text]
[underlined] 31 ANS [/underlined] (cont)
19/12/41 No 17 Co. ends. [underlined] Passed![/underlined]
19-26/12 Leave
[deleted] 26/12 [/deleted] 26-29/12 Lectures to SFTSs in Ontario
29-31/12 Party in Royal York – Toronto.
[boxed note 1/1/42 Mention in Dispatches {sic] (Ron. Gayette)]
31-6/1/42 Party in [indecipherable] Royal – Montreal.
6/1 – 27/1 Bermuda
27/1 – 28/1 Elizabeth City. N.C.
28/1 – 8/2 Bermuda
[collective explanatory note for period 8-9/2 to 12/2 – Posted 1 Group HQ.]
8-9/2 – Flying Atlantic
9/2 [deleted] [indecipherable] [/deleted] Stranraer
10/2 [two indecipherable words]
12/2 Leave
18/2 Reporting 1 Gp
[underlined] 1 Gp HQ Bawtry [/underlined]
8/2/42 Posted [inserted] (supernumary pending posting to S/L post G.N.O.). [/inserted]
18/2/42 Reported for Nav duties
1/3/42 Granted acting rank of Squadron Leader. – G.N.O. 1 group
7/11/42. Posted to BLYTON to form and command No. 199 Sqdn Granted acting rank of WING COMMANDER.
9/12/42 Missing. France.
12/12/42 Captured P.O.W until 2/5/45.
1/1/43 Mentioned in Despatches (Jan. honours list.)
2/5/45 Released near Lübeck
7/5/45 Arrived England (Wing)
8/5/45 Cosford
9/5/45 Leave until 22/6/45
1/6/45 Applied for P.C.
[page break]
22/6/45 Cosford
23/6/45 Medical = A1B.
23/6/45 – 9/7/45 Leave
10/7/45 Reported 7. F.I.S. Upavon for refresher fly course.
[inserted] 24/7/45 Applied for 18 months postponement of release. [/inserted]
7/8/45 Posted to HQ 43 Group for S.P.S.O. duties. [inserted] as CO Unit. [/inserted] w.ef. 17/8/46 [/inserted]
26/3/46 A.M. P’gram advising will be offered E.S. Comm.
28/3/46 Signalled AM from 43 Gp provisionally accepts.
1/4/46 Posted to AM [inserted] D of Nav [/inserted] as NAV. P.I. retaining acting rank.
Aug ’46 Gazetted Permanent Commission
20/3/47 Posted to HQTC for disposal (Sfy) [indecipherable word]
8/4/47 Posted to 1382 T.C.U. on no35 Course. Passed
15/8/47 Posted Syerston further T.C. course passed
17/9/47 Trip to India flying Dakotas until Oct. 2 [underlined]nd[/underlined]
10/10/47 Posted Abingdon Deputy o/c Flying Wing
2/12/47 Posted Oakington Senior Nav officer & Dep. o/C F.W.
29/6/48 Jun & July 48 Berlin Airlift
24/9/48 Died at RAF Oakington.
[page break]
[blank page]
[page break]
Ode to the skies [underlined] – Up There. [/underlined]
Up there we speed amongst the clouds, Whose billowing shrouds absorb the sounds Emitted with the smoke & flame, From our steed – the aeroplane.
Up there we travel in between Great towering banks of pure white screen. Truly – Castles in the Air, Whose beauty takes your breath, - up there.
Up there we sit and let our gaze Wander in a cloudy maze, And think ’tis shame that Beauty reigns – But seen by us, in aeroplanes
Up there we roam in sunlit sky, A world apart for those who fly. Whilst men upon the surface lurk In cold November’s fog and murk.
Up there unfolds the beauteous night, The moon in all her glorious might, The stars undimmed by Autumns mist, The distant hills by sunset kissed.
[page break]
Up there and now the early dawn Begins to herald in the morn. Long ‘ere earthly man’s aware The rays are lighting us, - up there
[underlined] Finningley Nov 1939 [/underlined]
[page break]
[underlined] To my beloved Sally [/underlined]
Sweet Sally how I miss your loving charm, The feel of you, your hand upon my arm; Your sweet warm breath upon my eager lips; The lovely imperfection of your hips.
Dear Sally how I love your flaxen hair; The breath of Spring about you everywhere. The soft light melting on your smooth white skin, The gentle perfume of your lovely skin.
Hey Sally I can’t say how much I miss The exquisite trembling of your tender kiss; The thrill of sensing your dear lips on mine, My body pressed into the warmth of thine.
Fair Sally how I love your eyes to show That feeling of such tenderness I know; That lovliness [sic] those perfect lids conceal, But opened such a wealth of charm reveal.
Sweet Sally within those slender arms entwined Is our love’s great [indecipherable word] defined. Such moments in their sweet embrace exist, I could not, - if I wanted to, resist.
[page break]
Oh Sally that we two should ever part Not always hand in hand and heart to heart, That this should happen darling, never fear, I’ll fight the very Gods to keep you near.
- Finningley Dec. 1939.
[page break]
[underlined] To – a Love, - a requeim [sic] [/underlined]
We met, we saw, we noticed, In times of strain, of strife. Our paths ran close together, Sweet moment in a life. Tis not for me to wonder Why paths should so converge, And enter realms of beauty Then suddenly emerge.
Nor ‘tis for me to question The fancies of the Fates, Who play their human playthings Behind their golden gates. But rather should I show my thanks For moments far too rare, For seconds in this passing hour Too lovely to compare.
‘Tis better for to love and lose, Than never know that bliss, That height to which you raised me In the heaven of your kiss. And so I thank thee Sally, For moments we embraced, And look towards the future Which can better now be faced.
[page break]
For though our paths diverge again, That fleeting instant showed, A world of such complexity, - Of magic yet untold; A world if I’d not known thee Would still be dull and bare, But having met thee dearest I’ll so much better fare.
And so into a memory So sweet, your presence parts, But say not that we wasted Those hours near our hearts. For memories we have Dear, That I’d not give away, For all the worlds sweet treasures Could never mine repay.
Finningley. March. 1940.
[page break]
[underlined] To Ann. [/underlined]
I saw you vaguely one vague day Not thinking that again we’d meet, But I felt your impression stay, - Oh Ann, - I found you very sweet.
I found beneath your face of calm, Shown with bold trust and openly, - A world of gay and subtle charm, Oh Ann, - how much I’d give for thee.
I write and see your face appear – You’re in my thoughts so constantly, Your voice in every sound I hear, Oh Ann, - I pray thee smile on me. –
Cottesmore, June 1941
[page break]
[underlined] Ode to an invitation [/underlined]
Come, give me your lips fair Pamela, give me your lips, Let their ripeness be mine fair Pamela, - so sweetly mine. Keep not their fair sweet freshness yourself Keep not their joy and fragrant wealth, - Give me your lips fair Pamela, - so sweetly thine.
Come, give me your hand sweet Pamela, give me your hand, Place its’ smallness in mine fair Pamela, sweetly in mine. Hold not its’ sweetness in solitude Hold not its’ fairness and beautytude [sic], - Give me your hand sweet Pamela, give me your hand.
Come, give me your self fair Pamela, give me your self, To love and to hold sweet Pamela, to hold and to love. Keep not your purity obscure, Keep [deleted] [indecipherable] [/deleted] your goddesslike [sic] allure – But give me your Self fair Pamela, give me your Self
Bawtry [underlined] June 1942 [/underlined]
[page break]
[underlined] To Kay, as Love appeared. [/underlined]
In all Her bountiful and queenly grace arrayed Views from high Olympus Earthwards strayed, And gave Her blessing. Thus enchanted she Did bid me kneel and pledge my faith to thee.
Uncalled unthought [sic] of, unexpected came That sweet sensation; with a name So often lipped unmeaningly [sic], yet far above All other words, - sweet Love.
Undream’d [sic] of, unexpected happiness Encompassed me, as I perceived that this Ungiven [sic] heart could err no more, Now given to my Katherine’s tender care.
Sagan, August 1943
[page break]
[underlined] To Kay. [/underlined]
Calm moments give to golden thoughts, from thoughts to reverie On untold things in days to come, With Thou and me in harmony.
Such thoughts make life seem beautiful, And seeming, therefore is. What need of other wishes, What more achieve than this?
Sweet Kay, what need to pen these words When all to this succumbs, - Dear when I shall have won thee Life itself a poem becomes.
Sagan, February 1944
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Peter Hattersley's Service Diary
Description
An account of the resource
A service diary written by Peter Hattersley covering the period from November 1930 to 24 September 1948.Initially he served in the Royal Engineers but in February 1936 he joined the RAF. It covers his training and operations including a newspaper cutting of the award of a Distinguished Flying Cross in 1940. There are poems written before and during his time as a POW.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Peter Hattersley
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One diary
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text. Diary
Text. Poetry
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MHattersleyCR40699-160506-03
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
British Army
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Poland
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Gloucestershire
England--Kent
England--Lincolnshire
England--London
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Rutland
England--Shropshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
Poland--Żagań
Scotland--Ross and Cromarty
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1938
1939
1940
1941
1942
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
Steve Christian
David Bloomfield
1 Group
106 Squadron
44 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
arts and crafts
Battle
C-47
Distinguished Flying Cross
Hampden
pilot
prisoner of war
RAF Abingdon
RAF Bawtry
RAF Blyton
RAF Catfoss
RAF Cosford
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Evanton
RAF Finningley
RAF Little Rissington
RAF Manston
RAF Netheravon
RAF Oakington
RAF St Athan
RAF Syerston
RAF Thornaby
RAF Uxbridge
RAF Waddington
Stalag Luft 3
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/380/7012/LHattersleyCR40699v1.1.pdf
099f001bc26b394fc0440d57cacdb995
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hattersley, Peter
Peter Hattersley
C R Hattersley
Charles Raymond Hattersley
Description
An account of the resource
77 items. The collection concerns Wing Commander Charles Raymond Hattersley DFC (1914-1948, 800429, 40699 Royal Air Force). Peter Hattersley served in the Royal Engineers between 1930 and 1935 but enlisted in the RAF in 1936. He trained as a pilot and flew with 106, 44 and 199 Squadrons. He completed 32 operations with 44 Squadron but had to force land his Wellington in France on his first operation with 199 Squadron in December 1942. He became a prisoner of war. He married Miss Kathleen Hattersley nee Croft after the war. The collection contains his logbook, notebooks, service material, his decorations and items of memorabilia in a tin box and 39 photographs.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Charles William Hattersley and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-06
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hattersley, CR
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Bermuda Islands
Canada
France
Germany
Great Britain
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
England--Berkshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Kent
England--Gloucestershire
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Middlesex
England--Norfolk
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Rutland
England--Shropshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
Ontario
Scotland--Ross and Cromarty
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Belgium--Liège
France--Soissons
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Dessau (Dessau)
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Leuna
Germany--Lingen (Lower Saxony)
Germany--Magdeburg
Germany--Sylt
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Title
A name given to the resource
Peter Hattersley's pilot's flying log book
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LHattersleyCR40699v1
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1937
1938
1939
1940
1941
1942
1945
1946
1947
1948
1940-05-17
1940-05-18
1940-05-19
1940-05-20
1940-05-23
1940-05-24
1940-05-25
1940-05-26
1940-05-27
1940-05-28
1940-06-01
1940-06-02
1940-06-03
1940-06-04
1940-06-07
1940-06-08
1940-06-09
1940-06-10
1940-06-11
1940-06-12
1940-06-20
1940-06-21
1940-06-25
1940-06-26
1940-07-01
1940-07-02
1940-07-05
1940-07-06
1940-07-09
1940-07-10
1940-07-20
1940-07-21
1940-07-22
1940-07-23
1940-07-25
1940-07-26
1940-07-28
1940-07-29
1940-07-31
1940-08-01
1940-08-03
1940-08-04
1940-08-07
1940-08-08
1940-08-11
1940-08-12
1940-08-13
1940-08-14
1940-08-16
1940-08-17
1940-08-21
1940-08-22
1940-08-25
1940-08-26
1940-08-28
1940-08-29
1940-08-31
1940-09-01
1940-09-03
1940-09-04
1940-09-06
1940-09-07
1940-09-08
1940-09-09
1942-12-09
1942-12-10
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Pilot's log book for Wing Commander Peter Hattersley, covering the period 10 April 1937 to 24 September 1948. It details his flying training, operations flown and other flying duties. He was stationed at Hanworth Park, RAF Reading, RAF Netheravon, RAF Little Rissington, RAF Catfoss, RAF Manston, RAF Thornaby, RAF Evanton, RAF Cottesmore, RAF Finningley, RAF St. Athan, RAF Waddington, RCAF Port Albert, Darrels Island-Bermuda, RAF Bawtry, RAF Blyton, RAF Upavon, RAF Shawbury, RAF Bircham Newton, RAF Wymeswold, RAF Syerston, RAF Oakington, RAF Cosford, RAF Stanmore and RAF Abingdon. Aircraft Flown in were, Blackburn B2, Hart, Audax, Mile Hawk, Magister, Battle I, Anson, Hampden, Tiger Moth, Lysander, Catalina, Wellington, Oxford II, Hudson, Harvard IIb, Proctor and Dakota. He flew a total of 32 night operations in Hampdens with 44 Squadron from RAF Waddington, and one operation with 199 Squadron. Took part in Berlin Airlift (Operation Plainfare).Targets in Belgium, France, and Germany were Hannover, Hamburg, Lingan, Rhine, Leige, Keil, Frankfurt, Duisberg, Soisson, Rhur, Sylt, Dessau, Leuna, Magdeburg, Berlin and Munster. Some navigation logs and correspondence concerning the award of his Distinguished Flying Cross are included in his log book. He became a POW in late 1942.
106 Squadron
14 OTU
199 Squadron
44 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
Battle
bombing
C-47
Catalina
Distinguished Flying Cross
Flying Training School
George VI, King of Great Britain (1895-1952)
Hampden
Harvard
Hudson
Lysander
Magister
navigator
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
prisoner of war
Proctor
RAF Abingdon
RAF Bawtry
RAF Bircham Newton
RAF Blyton
RAF Catfoss
RAF Cosford
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Evanton
RAF Finningley
RAF Little Rissington
RAF Manston
RAF Netheravon
RAF Oakington
RAF Shawbury
RAF St Athan
RAF Syerston
RAF Thornaby
RAF Upavon
RAF Waddington
RAF Wymeswold
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/7914/LGodfreyCR1281391v10001.2.pdf
2bb4feee369606f050f7e0e0563b6922
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Godfrey, Charles Randall
Subject
The topic of the resource
World War (1939-1945)
Description
An account of the resource
64 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Charles Randall Godfrey DFC (b. 1921, 146099, Royal Air Force) and consists of his logbook and operational notes, items of memorabilia, association memberships, personnel documentation, medals and photographs. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron. He flew as a wireless operator in the crew of Squadron Leader Ian Willoughby Bazalgette VC.
The collection has has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Charles Godfrey and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Godfrey, CR
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-18
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Charles Godfey's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LGodfreyCR1281391v10001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Egypt
France
Libya
Greece
Germany
Gibraltar
Great Britain
Netherlands
Scotland
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Belgium--Haine-Saint-Pierre
Egypt--Alexandria
Egypt--Cairo
Egypt--Ismailia (Province)
Egypt--Marsá Maṭrūḥ
Egypt--Tall al-Ḍabʻah
England--Berkshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cumbria
England--Devon
England--Gloucestershire
England--Hampshire
England--Kent
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Northumberland
England--Oxfordshire
England--Rutland
England--Shropshire
England--Suffolk
England--Wiltshire
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
France--Angers
France--Caen
France--Creil
France--Mantes-la-Jolie
France--Nucourt
France--Rennes
Germany--Wiesbaden
Germany--Berchtesgaden
Germany--Bottrop
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Dorsten
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Kleve (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Mainz (Rhineland-Palatinate)
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Osnabrück
Germany--Osterfeld
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Troisdorf
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Wesseling
Greece--Ērakleion
Greece--Piraeus
Libya--Darnah
Libya--Tobruk
Netherlands--Hasselt
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Scotland--Moray
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
England--Cornwall (County)
North Africa
Libya--Banghāzī
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Libya--Gazala
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1942-03-23
1942-06-10
1942-06-11
1942-06-12
1942-06-13
1942-06-14
1942-06-15
1942-06-16
1942-06-17
1942-06-18
1942-06-19
1942-06-20
1942-06-22
1942-06-23
1942-06-24
1942-06-25
1942-06-26
1942-06-28
1942-06-29
1942-07-02
1942-07-03
1942-07-05
1942-07-08
1942-07-09
1942-07-10
1942-07-12
1942-07-13
1942-07-15
1942-07-16
1942-07-17
1942-07-19
1942-07-20
1942-07-25
1942-07-26
1942-07-28
1942-07-29
1942-07-31
1942-08-01
1942-08-06
1942-08-07
1942-08-08
1942-08-09
1942-08-14
1942-08-15
1942-08-16
1942-08-17
1942-08-18
1942-08-19
1942-08-21
1942-08-22
1942-08-23
1942-08-24
1942-08-25
1942-08-26
1942-08-27
1942-08-28
1942-08-29
1942-08-30
1942-08-31
1942-09-01
1942-09-03
1942-09-05
1942-09-06
1942-09-08
1942-09-09
1944-05-06
1944-05-08
1944-05-12
1944-05-13
1944-05-27
1944-05-28
1944-05-29
1944-06-05
1944-06-07
1944-06-08
1944-06-09
1944-06-12
1944-06-13
1944-06-15
1944-06-16
1944-06-23
1944-06-24
1944-07-07
1944-07-09
1944-07-10
1944-07-14
1944-07-15
1944-07-16
1944-07-18
1944-07-19
1944-07-20
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-25
1944-07-26
1944-07-28
1944-07-29
1944-07-30
1944-08-01
1944-08-04
1944-11-17
1944-11-18
1944-12-04
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-12
1944-12-15
1944-12-18
1944-12-24
1944-12-28
1944-12-29
1945-01-01
1945-01-02
1945-01-05
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-01-23
1945-02-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-03
1945-02-04
1945-02-07
1945-02-08
1945-02-09
1945-02-14
1945-02-15
1945-02-18
1945-02-20
1945-02-21
1945-03-07
1945-03-08
1945-03-22
1945-03-24
1945-03-25
1945-03-31
1945-04-11
1945-04-13
1945-04-14
1945-04-25
1945-04-30
1945-05-05
1945-05-07
1945-05-15
1945-05-22
1945-06-08
1945-06-18
1945-08-03
1945-08-05
1944-06-06
1944-08-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Description
An account of the resource
Observer's and air gunner's flying log book for Pilot Officer Godfrey from 3 of February 1941 to 25 of September 1945 detailing training schedule, instructional duties and operations flown. Aircraft flown were Dominie, Proctor, Wellington, Hampden, Anson, Defiant, Martinet, Stirling, Lancaster, C-47 and Oxford. He was stationed at RAF Manby, RAF Bassingbourn, RAF Harwell, RAF Lossiemouth, RAF Downham Market, RAF Hemswell, RAF Wittering, RAF Abingdon, RAF Upper- Heyford, RAF Upwood, RAF Gillingham, RAF Cranwell, RAF Melton Mowbray, RAF Church Fenton, RAF Market Drayton, RAF Waddington, RAF Upavon, RAF Sywell, RAF Carlisle, RAF Linton-On-Ouse, RAF Newbury, RAF Cottesmore, RAF Brize Norton, RAF Exeter, RAF Andover, RAF Hampstead Norris, RAF Hythe, RAF Gibraltar, RAF St Eval, RAF El Dabba, RAF Shaluffa, RAF Abu Sueir, RAF Almaza, RAF Blyton, RAF Ingham, RAF Marston Moor, RAF Leeming, RAF Acklington, RAF Middleton St. George, RAF Newmarket, RAF Moreton-in-Marsh, RAF Leconfield, RAF Skipton-on-Swale, RAF Wyton, RAF Warboys, RAF Westcott, RAF Gravely and RAF Worcester. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron to targets in Belgium, France and Germany. Targets included: Heraklion, Piraeus, Derna, Tamimi, Benghazi Harbour, Gazala, Mersa Matruh, Ras El Shaqiq, El Daba, Tobruk, Fuqa, Quatafiya, Düren, Munster, Mantes- Gassicourt rail yards, Haine St. Pierre rail yards, Hasselt rail yards, Rennes, Angers rail yards, Caen, Ravigny rail yards, Nucourt, Wesseling oil refineries, L’Hey, Kiel, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Notre Dame, Trossy St. Maximin, Karlsruhe, Merseburg, Essen, Ludwigshafen, Duisburg, Dusseldorf, Mönchengladbach, Troisdorf, Dortmund, Nuremberg, Hannover, Munich, Gelsenkirchen, Mainz, Wiesbaden, Osterfeld, Kleve, Wanne- Eickel, Chemnitz, Wesel, Worms, Hemmingstedt, Dorsten, Bottrop, Osnabruck, Berchtesgaden, Ypenburg and Rotterdam. Notable events are that Charles Godfrey undertook a search and rescue operation in a Defiant and during the operation to Trossy St Maximin 4 August 1944 his aircraft, Lancaster ND811, was brought down by anti-aircraft fire. Whilst he survived and evaded, his pilot, Ian Willoughby Bazalgette was awarded the Posthumous Victoria Cross. The hand written notes added to the end of the log book give a description to the crash, and his attempts to evade capture. Pilot Officer Godfrey also took part in Operation Manna, Operation Exodus and Operation Dodge.
11 OTU
15 OTU
20 OTU
37 Squadron
635 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
C-47
Cook’s tour
Defiant
Dominie
evading
Hampden
killed in action
Lancaster
Martinet
missing in action
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
Pathfinders
Proctor
RAF Abingdon
RAF Andover
RAF Bassingbourn
RAF Blyton
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Carlisle
RAF Church Fenton
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Cranwell
RAF Downham Market
RAF Graveley
RAF Hampstead Norris
RAF Harwell
RAF Hemswell
RAF Ingham
RAF Leconfield
RAF Leeming
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Manby
RAF Marston Moor
RAF Melton Mowbray
RAF Middleton St George
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Newmarket
RAF Skipton on Swale
RAF St Eval
RAF Sywell
RAF Upavon
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Upwood
RAF Waddington
RAF Warboys
RAF Westcott
RAF Wittering
RAF Wyton
shot down
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
Victoria Cross
Wellington
wireless operator
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Raettig, Dennis
Dennis William Raettig
Dennis W Raettig
D W Raettig
D Raettig
Description
An account of the resource
72 items. The collection concerns the wartime service of Leading Aircraftman Dennis William Raettig (b. 1920, 1136657 Royal Air Force). Joining the Royal Air Force reserve in 1941 he trained as a flight mechanic (Engines) before being posted to 104 Squadron (Wellingtons) at RAF Driffield. This squadron number was later changed to 158 Squadron flying Halifax at RAF East Moor, followed by moves to RAF Rufford and Lisset. The collection consists of a memoir, correspondence with family and acquaintances, family history, service and personal documentation, lucky charms,personal items, cap, boots, squadron tie, research on bombing in Hull as well as photographs of air and ground crew and aircraft. It also includes an oral history interview with Joan Raettig (Dennis Raettig's wife).
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Sue Burn and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-23
2016-07-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Raettig, DW
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
104/158 Squadron Bomber Command
[photograph of a Wellington]
I started my Air Force life as a Flt./Mechanic (Engines) at Squires Gate, Blackpool, in January 1941. Everyone remembers their service number – in my case 1136657 – and their first months in the forces. The endless marching around, inspections and going for your ‘jabs’ – mine took place in a church hall [italics] ‘Suffer Little Children” [/italics] was written above the stage. Not having been inoculated before, I didn’t really know what to expect, but at the front of the queue grown men were fainting even before they got to the doctor! A punch in the middle of the back by the orderlies seemed to be the cure – it certainly cured me!
It is possible that I am the longest serving member of 158 Squadron, posted to B Flight, 104 Squadron, 4 Group Bomber Command, at Driffield, in the 2nd week of August, 1941. Driffield aerodrome was built in the early 30’s, with the usual living quarters and 4 hangers – there were no runways, just a large grass field, the standard for an airfield in those pre-war days. The aerodrome had previously been bombed - a barrack block and a hanger had been badly [inserted] damaged [/inserted], it was rumoured that several personnel had perished.
104 Squadron was composed of 2 Flights of Vickers Wellington Mk. 2 bombers, powered by Rolls Royce Merlin X engines. The airframe was of geodetic construction, covered by a fabric which was stitched on with a very strong twine. It was designed by Barnes Wallis, who a few years earlier, had been involved with the airship R100 which was built at near-by Howden. The aircraft were mainly disbursed around the airfield, but some were parked in a field across a road which skirted the ‘drome. There was also a Blind Approach Training Flight, with 2 Whitley [inserted] bombers [/inserted], a Fairey Battle used for target towing for air-to-air firing; and most unexpectedly – an Autogiro – definitely not a helicopter! (used for weather observations over the North Sea) I serviced it on 2 or 3 occasions; and finally 4 Westland Lysanders, which were attached to a nearby army unit.
It was during October of that year (1941) that we were confined to camp. A number of aircrew and groundcrew were given 48 hours leave and the rest of us told that we had to prepare the aircraft for a special mission. We were later told that they were all going to Malta and spares would also be loaded on the ‘planes. As soon as I heard of the destination I volunteered to go (due to an accident, my parents were stranded on the island – and later Egypt) I was told that if any of the groundcrew failed to return from leave I would be considered. As it turned out one person failed to return on time and I was actually on the ‘plane when he turned up. [deleted] It was to be an [/deleted]
Aircraft and crews were soon replaced but it was around this time that U Uncle ([deleted] the [/deleted] [inserted] a [/inserted] dual controlled training aircraft) crash landed. This was my time to take over servicing the ‘plane and as new aircrews arrived they all took their turn on the ‘circuits and bumps’ training. However, a few days later I was reading D.R.O’s (remember Daily Routine Orders?) One paragraph read (roughly) that anybody who could successfully design a means of hiding the exhausts on the Merlin engine would receive an award of £200 (the stubs glowed red hot and were thought to be an easy target for enemy fighters). I thought no more about it until someone came from our office and told me that U would be the aircraft to test any of the designs and that I had to move my ‘plane to the parking area across the road from the main airfield and to take reasonable precautions in case of fire. That afternoon I got the tractor to tow U across the road to the parking area
Page 1
[page break]
[deleted] Across the road] [/deleted] and [deleted] I [/deleted] surrounded it with as many fire extinguishers as I could get hold of. The following day the first test arrived in the shape of a cowling to be fitted on the starboard engine, on the inboard [inserted] side [/inserted] so that I could see it all the time I was testing. After fitting the cowling to the engine, I started up the engine and waited for the oil pressure g[inserted]u[/inserted]age to ‘break’, but it was obvious from the way exhaust gases came out that it was a failure. Over a period of several days more were tested until one passed the ground test, so I asked for an aircrew to fly the aircraft. When the crew came out and I explained what the test was they refused to fly it – well any sane person would, wouldn’t they? However, we came to a compromise by agreeing that just the pilot and I would fly as low as possible within the confines of the airfield – which we did – it was a case of ‘Down quick’. On the third occasion of a test flight the airframe mechanic asked if he could go up as he wanted to do a check. I told him no it was too dangerous, however he said it was fairly important for him to check the wing in flight, so the three of us went on the test. Very quickly it was a case of ‘down, down’ both from me and the airframe mech.. Apart from the exhaust burning the cowling, the starboard wing had ‘ballooned’ due to the cord stitching the fabric had worn away. It was all down to the skill of the pilot, he quickly feathered the prop., somehow managing to control the landing despite having a damaged wing, and landed safely. However, all our troubles were not quite over – having had to cut the starboard engine the hydraulic pump no longer worked the flaps or the brakes. So the Pilot’s problem was how to stop the aircraft from crashing into two 500 gal. petrol bowsers on the perimeter track just in front of the hanger. Fortunately, it stopped about 20 yards away. That was the end of U Uncle – the next day it was loaded onto a ‘Queen Mary’ lorry back to the Vickers factory. The problem of the glow from the exhaust system took a little longer – a few days later we received some cans of a specially thick red paint developed by I.C.I., with instructions to paint it thickly on to the exhaust stubs, which was duly applied. When the engines were run the heat turned the red paint black – problem solved.
… and now we are 158 Squadron
As autumn turned to winter it became obvious that without runways, the aircraft would be in difficulties with take-off and landing. At one stage we helped to lay a steel wire ‘runway’, which was duly tested but considered unworkable, so it had been decided some of the aircraft would operate from R.A.F. Pocklington, at the foot of the Yorkshire Wolds.
Due to the lack of living quarters, some of the ground crew were based at nearby R.A.F. Melbourne (which was in the early stages of being built) and bussed to and from Pocklington every day. The bus used to drop us at the end of a short lane to our billet, where a farmer had conveniently (for us) built a potato pie to protect his crop from being frosted. There were about 15 of us and as each one passed the pie they helped them selves to a potato, then on to the cookhouse for tea. One of the gang would talk to the cook, while one of us grabbed a packet of margarine, which we soon found on a shelf at the other end of the counter. Later in the evening in front of a red-hot stove we baked and ate our baked potatoes – never have they tasted better! However, as they [sic] saying goes, all good things must come to an end, as an officer arrived one evening and ‘tore a strip off us’
It was during mid February at Pocklington that we were informed that we were now 158 Squadron and the recognition letters on the sides of the aircraft changed from EP to NP, so as we prepared for operations the airframe mechanic did the necessary alterations to the lettering. That evening the aircraft flew with the new insignia and more importantly, all returned safely from that first operation of the new squadron. 2 or 3 other raids were carried out from Pocklington with the loss of 1 aircraft.
The new squadron then returned to our own base at Driffield, and for the next 3 months was engaged in many raids on enemy targets in which many brave men lost their lives. Some however, were captured and for the rest of the war interned in P.O.W. camps. During early May, we were informed that the squadron was to move to another station and be equipped with Halifax Mk 2 Bombers. In due course we moved to different stations to learn more about these ‘planes.
About 20 of us went to RAF Leeming. The first question any sensible airman should ask on arriving at a new station is “What’s the grub like?” – the answer here at Leeming was mind blowing – pictures of a pre-war summer day, mother bringing a cool green salad to the table in the back garden and as a special treat a slice of [italics] pork-pie [/italics] – here the dream ended. Pork Pies (about 3” diam.) were available for breakfast, dinner, tea and supper at this station. You soon got your fill of them – it was a few years before I tasted another! On the whole our stay was like a holi-
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day as we had no responsibilities and the weather was fine enough for some of us to swim in a small river at the edge of the ‘drome – including my friend Doug. Waddie, who not having any swimming trunks decided to hide behind some bushes and wrap his loins (ahem!) in 2 large handkerchiefs, jumped into the fast running river and immediately lost his dignity much to the amusement of a group of WAAF. I quickly picked up his towel and threw it across, but unfortunately my aim wasn’t good and it landed in the water – there was a great cheer as Doug. revealed all, to retrieve his towel. Shortly after this dramatic incident I was ordered back to Driffield, as I went down the narrow road from the Leeming ‘drome I noticed a fairly new factory with a notice ‘Pork Pie Products’ – so if any of you get posted there, you know what to expect!
Arriving back at Driffield, I was told that I had to report to the Group Captain. On entering his office he told me that he was as mystified as me as to what was going on but I had to check all the remaining aircraft and await further orders. One of my airframe friends joined me later in the day, and together we inspected the planes – there were only 8 or 9 Wellingtons left of the original squadron plus the Whitleys of the B.A.T. flight who had [deleted] there [/deleted] [inserted] their [/inserted] own service crews. On the next day more tradesmen arrived and we serviced those few planes. The following day, the 30th May 1942, was to be an important day in Bomber Command history. We were told to prepare the planes for a special raid. Regardless of trade we all helped each other – whether it was filling up with fuel or bombing-up and finally the aircrews came out started the engines and where [sic] off. It was an amazing sight, as squadron after squadron flew overhead for quite a long time. It was of course the first 1,000 bomber raid. Target Cologne. Two days later the planes were again prepared for ops. This time the target was Essen. That was the last Wellington bombing raid from Driffield by 158 Squadron. A few days later we rejoined the main squadron at the new station…
R.A.F. EAST MOOR
[photograph of a Halifax Mk 2 Aircraft]
Halifax Mk 2 4 Rolls-Royce Merlin XXII
About 9 miles north of York, close to the hamlet of Sutton-on-the-Forest, East Moor was one if the new breed of satellite stations, with well dispersed living quarters in the wooded areas.
The first days were filled with lectures mainly about the new aircraft and one I particularly remember was about security. After this meeting 2 or 3 of us decided to go down to the local ‘watering hole’, but just as we were leaving I was called back to ‘see in’ B Flight’s first new Halifax bomber. About half an hour later I went to meet my friends at the village pub and I saw them talking to a couple of civilians who on my entry, quickly left the premises. I was surprised at their quick exit and asked the lads what had happened. On being told that they had been asking questions about what type of aircraft etc., I asked the landlord permission to use his ‘phone and called the civil police and our own service police. On returning to camp we were interrogated by our police, but heard nothing further.
During the next few days, aircrew and groundcrew were arriving to bring the squadron up to strength. Again I was allocated to P, and was quickly introduced to the new aircrew as they came to test their ‘plane. When the crew came for their next flight I asked the pilot for permission for my new assistant (straight from training school) and I to go up for our first flight in a Halifax. We all climbed on board, and had a very pleasant flight on a lovely summer’s day – except the pilot didn’t warn us that he was going to do a few tests. The first inkling was when the outer starboard engine was stopped then feathered, next the starboard-inner, the nose dropped slightly and was corrected by the pilot, then the port-inner was stopped and immediately restarted when the nose dropped. Test over, and as the pilot lowered the undercarriage preparing to land, a horn sounded, not having heard this before, I asked the Flight Engineer what it was for. “It’s a warning to indicate that the landing-gear hasn’t locked” was the response. The pilot was receiving instructions over the radio. Climbing higher, he went into a fairly steep dive as he attempted to lower the under-
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carriage – still the horn sounded. After a few more attempts he was told to use-up some fuel, then land. All aircrew were ordered to crash positions between the main spars, while my assistant and I lay on the floor with our arms protecting our heads. It was a great relief when I heard the screech of tyres as we touched down – the horn continued all the time till we got to our base. Later, a ground check was made and an electrical fault was found on the system.
Towards the end of the first month at East Moor, planes were prepared for a raid which we learned later was the 3rd 1,000 bomber raid. This time against Bremen. During that month of June several raids were carried out and any loss of aircraft was keenly felt throughout the squadron, partly because we were such a small unit – 2 Flights – 16 aircraft maximum. [inserted] One [deleted] new [/deleted] innovation to our routeen [sic] was the introduction of a heater van [/inserted]
The following story may seem incredible, but it actually happened. All I can assume is that a certain Canadian F/Sgt. rear gunner found a cheap way of getting someone else to pay for his beer – My aircraft was based close to a narrow country road and one afternoon I was working by myself, on top of one of the engines changing plugs when I heard children laughing close by. Looking down I was horrified to see a lady and two young children (about 4 or 5 years old) sat by the side of the plane with a tablecloth spread out with plates of sandwiches, then from behind I heard a man call his wife to ‘come and look at this’. Turning round I saw a man looking into the aircraft though the entrance hatch. I told him to leave the field as he was trespassing. He said he wasn’t trespassing as he had arranged to meet his friend Flt/Sgt - - who had promised to take them on a flight and if I wasn’t careful he would report me to his friend and get me put on a charge. This was getting very silly, so I told him to go to ‘that building over there’ pointing to the guardhouse and they would get hold of his friend for him. So off he went. I don’t know what happened but he never came back for his free flight. Warning! If any of you get called up again (there’s no knowing the way things are just now, they are short of recruits) don’t try the free drinks trick on me, unless you pass me a bottle or two.
[italics] It was around this time that a Group Captain from a neighbouring ‘drome insisted on holding an inspection of all personnel once a month (I must have been born with 2 left feet!). His name was Gp. Captain John Whitley and he was later to become very important to me [/italics].
The Squadron was heavily engaged in August and suffered many losses, but one cheery note was that P.O. Chambers, who had been with the Squadron since the Driffield days, finished his tour of ops.. September was also a very busy month but towards the end we were less busy and I ‘volunteered’ (you, you & you!) for a special mission, in late October. Actually, there were six or so groundcrew, an MT driver and a bus. The instructions were to drive 10 miles south of York on the A19, open the secret instructions and carry on from there. Arriving at the 10 mile spot, the secret instructions were opened. We were to proceed the RAF Harwell and to prepare our Halifax aircraft for [underlined] Glider towing [/underlined]. As we were driven down we discussed the implications and came to the conclusion that someone ‘high up’ didn’t know what he was talking about – not unusual! As far as we knew, none of our aircrews had any training for towing gliders. However, on to Harwell, or so we thought, but leaving the road directions to the driver, it was a little surprising when we entered a small town whose main claim to fame was a statue of a lady riding a cock horse (what ever that is). Fortunately, one of the party knew the area, so beating a hasty retreat – (which included reversing into the statue) and sped like the devil in case anyone had noticed our arrival). We were late reaching the gates of RAF Harwell, only to be told that the operation had been cancelled – and no we couldn’t be admitted to the camp. Our driver pointed out that he had already driven over 8 hours and wouldn’t drive any further, so we had no alternative but to find somewhere to stay for the night. Fortunately there was a farmer near by who agreed to let us stay the night in his stables and led the horses into a field. We had a restless (and smelly) night and set off early next morning for our journey back.
On arrival, we were so exhausted that we went straight to our hut (most of the party were in my hut) and lay on our beds and began to doze off only to be wakened by a Flt/Sgt. telling us that we were supposed to be working on the planes and if not, we had to volunteer to fly on a special trip – it was the easy way out[inserted],[/inserted] so back to sleep. The next morning we were told that we would be
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taking over the duties of the squadron, whose own aircraft (Liberators) had been cannibalised one-at-a-time in order to keep their aircraft flying until they had only one aircraft. Our flight down to the South coast was uneventful, but the cloud base was rather low and we couldn’t see the ground so I cat-napped. Sometime later I awoke and was looking at a strange cloud rising just at the side of our ‘plane., about the size of a large black football – it then dawned on me and just as I was going to shout at the captain he called on the inter-com ‘Navigator we must be nearly there’. ‘Yes, just nip below cloud and confirm’. At least 4 German A.A. guns were firing at us, and looking hastily back, I couldn’t even see the Channel. Quickly climbing above cloud, we eventually reached our destination. But it was going to be one of those days best forgotten. I was given my instructions to try and keep the planes serviceable at all times and to make sure that all ‘planes were fully fuelled, as the trips were to be over the Bay of Biscay searching for enemy subs. Mine laying and submarine attack was the main aim.
As I got out of the ‘plane I saw a petrol tanker on the perimeter track, so I hailed him to come over, and told him we wanted to fill the aircraft immediately. ‘Sorry mate. You don’t belong to us’, was the response. So it was a case of ‘take me to your leader’ attitude. I climbed into the tanker, back to his base and had words with his officer, who more-or-less said the same thing. I was then passed up the ranks – Flt.Lt Engineer Officer, Squadron Leader, Wing Commander and finally the Group Captain. Repeating my request for refuelling the aircraft, I got the same answer – ‘No, I don’t know anything about you’. I tried another way. ‘Sir, someone must have sent a signal for reinforcements.’ ‘No, they would have told me about it’. Feeling that I was getting nowhere – ‘May I use the ‘phone , sir?’ ‘Yes certainly. Who do you want to ring’? ‘Our own base, there is little point in us remaining here, we may as well return.’ Ah! I’d hit a tender spot. ‘Now let us think this out’ he said. The solution he arrived at was that he would call in a WAAF typist, dictate an agreement to the effect that I was responsible for all the fuel used by our unit, and that we would both sign it – I know that it all sounds crazy, but that is basically what happened. [italics] (My recurring worry is that someone in the Air Ministry may find that document, and ask me to repay them for the fuel used. However, I am comforted that my fellow members of the Squadron will dig deep in their pockets to reimburse me.) [/italics]. However, having got permission I rushed back to fuel the aircraft, as a lot of time had been wasted and it was getting towards night-time. The tanker arrived and two of us, one on each wing, commenced to fill up. The driver warned us that if the ‘drome was attacked (France was only 20 or so miles away) the standing instructions were for him to pull away immediately. It rapidly got very dark that night, (remember it was early October). Suddenly, there was a big flash and bang, and without warning, the tanker driver started to pull away shouting at us as he went – we just had time to pull out the nozzles. Quickly fastening down the petrol caps, we slide down the wing stubs and met at the bottom. It was pitch-black by this time and we hadn’t a clue were [sic] any of the buildings were situated and just hoped that the rest of our party had found somewhere to stay. By good luck, the first building we got to was the NAAFI which was practically deserted, except some of our friends were there. They had similar experiences to us in that no-one on the ‘drome was interested in us – so it was a case of do-it-yourself – our lads just commandeered a Nissan hut, ‘pinched’ beds from other huts, bedding from several places and even broke into the coal compound. So, at least we had somewhere to sleep and in some sort of comfort. Someone explained that the big flash & bang we heard was their last Liberator blowing-up on its test flight. One can imagine that the whole camp, from the Group Captain to the lowest ranks, were so demoralised by the situation that there was no point in them being there. We had our own duties to attend to.
Our original instructions were [italics] ‘You’ll only be there about a week, You’ll only need your knife, fork and mug’[/italics] – we were to remain there until we were relieved early in December!. Things ran fairly smoothly at first, but then we all ran out of money.. The normal channels were tried – going to the accounts department and explaining the situation, but to no avail. Finally, a meeting was arranged with the whole detachment and a plan of action arranged – that on the next station pay parade we would disrupt the action by walking in front of the station personnel and prevent them from being paid. The pay day arrived and we caused absolute chaos – we were threatened with dire consequences, but eventually everybody calmed down and the Squadron Leader in charge of the parade promised to look into the affair straight after their men had been paid. We agreed to this and left the parade. The next day we were paid. So at least I could buy a cup of tea at the NAAFI.
We existed (couldn’t think of a better word) there for about 5 weeks – our only possessions knife, fork and mug. [underlined] [italics] No change of clothing. [/italics] [/underlined] One day, one of our own aircraft arrived unannounced, dropped off replacement ground crew (they returned the following day) and flew us back to…
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R.A.F. RUFFORTH
It was the 5th December when we arrived back again in the area of York. Rufforth is about 4 miles west of the city and was a typical war-time ‘drome, with 2 runways and scattered living accommodation. One difference to our previous home, there was a working farmhouse [underlined] within [/underlined] its boundary. I was allocated to P, which was based close to a country road.
Routine was slightly different than before, in that we serviced the ‘planes early in the mornings (remember this was winter-time and day-light hours were short. It would be dark by 5 p.m.) Aircrews air tested, and in the course of early afternoon we towed each plane by tractor, onto the runway, fairly close together, and at a 25o angle to the runway. The planes were then topped-up with fuel (some times overload tanks were fitted), bombed up – often with a mixed load of 2,000 lb. H.E.s and incendiaries.
On one occasion there was an electrical fault and a canister of incendiaries fell to the ground, fortunately very few ignited and we managed to throw, and kick them out of the way. The reason for parking the planes on the runway was to save as much fuel as possible as some of the raids were at Turin or Genoa. I remember on the return of one aircraft, how the crew waxed lyrical of how beautiful the Alps looked in the moonlight.
It was common practice for ground crews who were on night duty, waiting for returning planes, to cat-nap as best they could. One night I was awakened by an odd noise, looking out of the door of the office, I saw a horse, then noticed 2 or 3 more. Rushing back in I rang the control tower. There was quite a panic as the returning aircraft were due in about 1/2 hour. “A” flight office was informed and together with some control tower staff we just managed to get the last horse in when the first planes arrived. Well! I couldn’t face having to eat horse meat for the next week or two.
It was possibly early in 1943 when it happened – [underlined] [italics] the worst day of my life. [/italics] [underlined] The day started just like any other at Rufforth, early breakfast and off to work. After we had ground tested, the aircrew arrived and proceeded with the air test. Everyone going for an early dinner as the afternoon was very busy – only one tractor per Flight, and pulling the ground-starter motors over, ready to start the aircraft. The aircrews came out after briefing, engines were started up, and while the rest of the groundcrew cleared the area of ground-starter motors etc. I remained in the aircraft while the pilot checked the engines one at a time, checked the fine/course pitch, and so on until he was satisfied, checking the petrol and finally signing ‘Form 700’ – which contained the signatures of all who had done any work on the plane.
Closing the hatch, with the ‘700’ under my arm I walked to the Control Tower to watch the planes take-off. It was getting dusk but I could just read the letters on the side of my plane. As the pilot opened up the engines, I was horrified to see white steam pouring from the starboard outer engine – a sure sign of a coolant burst (the planes were all powered by Merlin XX’s at this time). I expected to see the pilot immediately shut-down and stop the plane, but no, the plane carried on gathering speed, as it reached the end of the runway and lift-off. I watched the aircraft as it slowly turned to port with steam still streaming out behind. Then inevitably, there was a dull thud and a flash as the ‘plane disintegrated, killing all the crew.
I was in a state of shock. Had I missed something on my check? My F/Sgt. was on the balcony of the control tower, and he called down to me [italics] “That was your aircraft wasn’t it? You had better give me the 700 before you do anything stupid with it.” [/italics] That statement certainly did not improve my already troubled mind. What of the poor crew – they must have realised that something was seriously wrong and tried to fly to the other end of the runway, so that they could land again. It must have been hell for them before the inevitable explosion. My mind was repeating all the event that had gone on during that fatal day. Would I be arrested and await a courtmartial [sic]? I eventually returned back to my hut, and my friends tried their best to console me
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On reporting for work the next morning the F/Sgt decided that I wouldn’t work on aircraft but work in the office and be a general ‘dogsbody’ for any one who wanted assistance. I heard nothing about the accident for 2 or 3 weeks, until one day I was asked to report to one of the offices, were [sic] I was asked by a Sgt. S.P. to verify that it was my signature on the Form 700 and that was all I heard about it officially.
I was in the office a few weeks later when our office clerk said to me that there was a rumour that we were moving to another station near the east coast called Lissett, do you know it? I thought for a moment, ‘Yes! It’s a hamlet on the Bridlington Low Road. I’ve driven through it a few times. It is notorious for a stretch of straight concrete road w[inserted]h[/inserted]ere idiot motorists ‘open-up’ to see how quickly they can kill themselves.’ – and so on to …
R.A.F. LISSETT
We were still working on Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, a newer version Halifax Mark 2. and Flights A, B, & C. I was very surprised when I was put in charge of R Robert, based just out-side what was to become the Radar Office and close to the bomb dump. [italics] (Most of those who served at Lissett will have realised how dangerous that base was.) [/italics] There were differences in some of the Halifaxes – they now had the large oblong shaped tail, apart from that, most of them had radar blisters under neath [sic], but the aircraft I was working on had a blister made of metal and the rear was wide open to the air. It was suggested that it was intended to be a lowerer [sic] gun position, which never materialised. I went on the first flight and when the ‘plane was airborne I crept into the blister and strapped myself in – I’ve never been so frightened, the flight itself was rather bumpy but the air-drag was trying to pull me out of the open blister. Very carefully I undid the strap and held tight-hold of it, at the same time pulling myself into the fuselage. What a relief!
Page 7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dennis Raettig's wartime memoir
Description
An account of the resource
Wartime memoir covering Dennis Raettig's training at Blackpool and the posting to 104 Squadron at Royal Air Force Driffield in August 1941. Worked on Wellington aircraft and mentions that Driffield also hosted the blind approach landing flight operating Whitley and Battle aircraft. Tells of his time at Driffield including an attempt to deploy to Malta and deployment to RAF Pocklington during the winter. Notes that the squadron change number to 158 Squadron in February 1942. Relates training at RAF Leeming for squadrons eventual change to Halifax aircraft and preparations for the 1000 bomber operation on Cologne in May 1942 as well as the last Wellington operations shortly after. Goes on to tell of his time at RAF East Moor now with Halifax. with some anecdotal stories as well as relating story of a test flight and an abortive trip to RAF Harwell to prepare Halifax for glider towing. Describes another special operation trip to the south coast with problems with getting fuel for the aircraft. Talks of move to RAF Rufforth and describes routine as well as describing witnessing 'his' aircraft crashing on take off and its effect on him as the worst day of his life. Finally relates move to RAF Lisset.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D W Raettig
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Seven page printed document with illustrations
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BReattigDWRaettigDWv1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--Yorkshire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1941-01
1941-08
1942-02
1942-05-30
1943
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
David Bloomfield
104 Squadron
158 Squadron
4 Group
animal
B-24
Battle
bombing
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
crash
fuelling
ground crew
ground personnel
Halifax
Halifax Mk 2
incendiary device
mechanics engine
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF Driffield
RAF East Moor
RAF Harwell
RAF Leeming
RAF Lissett
RAF Pocklington
RAF Rufforth
runway
service vehicle
take-off crash
tractor
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/474/8361/LClydeSmithD39856v2.2.pdf
e0d96effd48c511db0b4d3f3418f4285
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Clyde-Smith, Denis
Clyde-Smith, D
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains 26 items and concerns Squadron Leader Denis Clyde-Smith Distinguished Service Order, Distinguished Flying Cross, who joined the Royal Air Force and trained as a pilot in 1937. He flew in the anti aircraft cooperation role including remotely piloted Queen Bee aircraft before serving on Battle aircraft on 32 Squadron. He completed operational tours on Wellington with 115 and 218 Squadrons and Wellington and Lancaster with 9 Squadron after which he went to the aircraft and armament experimental establishment at Boscombe Down. The collection consists of two logbooks, aircraft histories of some of the aircraft he flew, photographs of people and aircraft, newspaper articles and gallantry award certificate.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Clyde-Smith and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-19
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Clyde-Smith, D
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LClydeSmithD39856v2
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Pilot's flying log book for Denis Clyde-Smith covering the period from 10 May 1937 to 31 May 1942. Detailing his flying training, Operations and instructor duties. He was stationed at RAF Sywell, RAF Sealand, RAF Henlow, RAF Calshot, RAF Watchet, RAF Biggin Hill, RAF Farnborough, RAF Weston Zoyland, RAF Benson, RAF Ringway, RAF Wing, RAF Harwell, RAF Marham, RAF Lichfield, RAF Fradley and RAF Tatten Hill. Aircraft flown in were, Tiger Moth, Hawker Hart, Audax and Fury, Queen Bee, Avro Prefect and Tutor, Moth, Swordfish, Wallace, Magister, Henley, Battle, Gauntlet, Hurricane, Scion, Monospar, Percival 96, Leopard, Vega Gull, Proctor, Walrus, Gladiator, Lysander, Anson and Wellington. He flew a total of 30 operations with 115 Squadron and 218 Squadron. Targets attacked were, Boulogne, Hannover, Dusseldorf, Brest, Berlin, Hamburg, Lorient, Keil, Cologne, Bremen, Munster and Osnabrück.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
France
Great Britain
Germany
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
England--Bedfordshire
England--Berkshire
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cheshire
England--Hampshire
England--Kent
England--Norfolk
England--Northamptonshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Somerset
England--Staffordshire
France--Brest
France--Lorient
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bremen
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Osnabrück
Wales--Flintshire
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1937
1938
1939
1940
1941
1942
1941-02-07
1941-02-10
1941-02-11
1941-02-12
1941-02-15
1941-02-25
1941-03-02
1941-03-03
1941-03-12
1941-03-13
1941-03-14
1941-03-15
1941-03-16
1941-03-30
1941-03-31
1941-04-03
1941-04-04
1941-04-07
1941-04-08
1941-04-09
1941-04-10
1941-04-11
1941-04-12
1941-04-13
1941-04-14
1941-04-15
1941-04-16
1941-04-17
1941-04-22
1941-04-23
1941-04-25
1941-04-26
1941-05-16
1941-05-17
1941-06-13
1941-06-14
1941-06-15
1941-06-16
1941-06-20
1941-06-21
1941-06-23
1941-06-24
1941-06-26
1941-06-27
1941-06-29
1941-06-30
1941-07-04
1941-07-05
1941-07-06
1941-07-07
1941-07-08
1941-07-09
1941-07-10
1942-05-30
1942-05-31
Title
A name given to the resource
Denis Clyde-Smith's pilot's flying log book. One
115 Squadron
15 OTU
218 Squadron
27 OTU
aircrew
Anson
Battle
bombing
bombing of Cologne (30/31 May 1942)
Flying Training School
Hurricane
Lysander
Magister
Operational Training Unit
pilot
Proctor
RAF Benson
RAF Biggin Hill
RAF Calshot
RAF Farnborough
RAF Harwell
RAF Henlow
RAF Lichfield
RAF Marham
RAF Ringway
RAF Sealand
RAF Sywell
RAF Weston Zoyland
RAF Wing
Swordfish
Tiger Moth
training
Walrus
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/494/8380/AColesT150928.1.mp3
afdd314d0db1e42b90593a4ae2f57c8f
Dublin Core
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Title
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Coles, Tom
Aubrey Tom Coles
A T Coles
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archvie
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Coles, T
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Aubrey Tom Coles (1323812 Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 158 Squadron.
The collection has been licenced to the IBCC Digital Archive by Aubrey Tom Coles and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
NM: Let me just make an introduction if I can.
TC: Ok.
NM: So, my name is Nigel Moore and I’m talking this morning to Flight Lieutenant Tom Cole.
TC: Yes.
NM: I’m in his house at [omitted].
TC: Coles. It’s plural.
NM: Oh is it?
TC: Yes.
NM: I apologise for that. I’ve got false information. There we go. I’ll correct that. So I’m at [omitted] Hertfordshire and it’s the 28th of September 2015 and it’s 11 o’clock in the morning…
TC: Right.
NM: So, Mr Coles, thank you very much for agreeing to do this, this interview. Interested to hear a little bit about your life growing up and before you, before you joined the RAF.
TC: Oh I went to the, obviously the junior school in Watford. I was born in Watford and I went from this school, I went to the technical school and I got a pass to Watford Tech and left there at fourteen, I think. Yes. And odd jobs. Nothing to speak of really until I joined up at, I was eighteen. I went to Oxford and had a successful thing there because I was, I asked for air gunner. It was only because my brother was already a LAC but they said, ‘No, we think we’re, two squadron leaders addressed me and they said, ‘No. We think you’ll be suitable for pilot.’ So, it was rather surprising to me but I hadn’t got enough ambition, I suppose, really at that age and from there I went to Lord’s. We were, when I was first called up, we went to a building, building of flats next to Lord’s Cricket Ground where we went for, we went for our medicals there. All these chaps lined up naked and a man, an army officer medico came along and, most peculiar, lifting things [laughs].
NM: [laughs] Right.
TC: And, you know, I’d not seen anything like that before but - where shall I go from there? I went from there to the first course, we were put on was down in Devon. Where was it? Crumbs my memory. Hold on. Newquay. And we did, I suppose, I’m trying to think how long we were there. Did a complete course there anyway and we were then sent to, in the end after all the fiddling about we went to Canada which, for our training, which you’ll see that [rustling of papers] this is all done from Canada and, [rustling of papers] if there is anything interesting there at the moment but -
NM: We’ll take a look at that.
TC: Hmmn?
NM: We’ll take a look at that after the interview.
TC: Ah. Right.
NM: Ok.
Other: Can I interrupt here?
TC: Yeah.
NM: Yeah, go on.
Other: You were asked what your life was like prior to going in the RAF. You were highly involved in scouting weren’t you?
NM: Yes.
Other: Scouts. Rover Scouts.
TC: Yes.
Other: You were highly involved in all that.
TC: Yes. Yes, well I suppose the only holidays we had in those days was scout camping. We were keen and my brother was also very keen and I just followed him and we, it was a great time. What else could I say about scouting? Well it saw me through to, till when I was married really. It was, we had our own campsite which was given to us by Lord and Lady Clarendon when they left their house near Watford and went to London. Retired. So we had a campsite there which we used very much every weekend virtually and -
NM: So -
TC: That again was just before I joined up and...
NM: So you were married before you joined up.
Other: No. We didn’t meet until -
TC: No. No.
Other: After he came out.
TC: Yeah.
NM: Ok.
TC: After. I wasn’t old enough.
Other: Because my brother was also in the Scouts.
TC: Yeah.
Other: And that’s how we met. Through the -
NM: Right.
TC: Yeah.
Other: As I say.
NM: OK.
Other: They weren’t little Scouts. They were all rover Scouts, you know -
NM: Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Other: Which is -
NM: Yeah. So you joined the RAF because your brother was already, your older brother was ahead of you.
TC: I think -
Other: Yes.
TC: That had a great bearing on it.
NM: That was your -
Other: Yes.
NM: The reason for your choice.
Other: Your brother.
TC: And my sister joined the WAAFs. Unfortunately, she died in, while she was in the WAAFs through lack of care in -
Other: Twenty seven wasn’t she?
TC: Yeah. A swampy campsite she was, camp she was in and that was very sad. Especially my parents, for my parents who were geared to the fact that one of us or both of us might get the chop. Never gave it a thought that my sister would suffer and it was all bad living conditions at the particular camp she was at, ‘cause she wasn’t the only one but that, that -
NM: Which camp?
TC: That messed us up a bit.
NM: Which camp was that?
TC: Pardon?
NM: Which camp was she on?
TC: Oh crumbs.
NM: This was during the war I assume.
TC: I can’t remember the name of the place now.
NM: Yeah.
TC: Yeah.
NM: Ok. So you were in Canada.
TC: Yes.
NM: And you’re doing your flying training.
TC: In winter in Canada and it was, we were flying and it was, I don’t know, about thirty below. We used to have a streak. Everyone took off and then it would stop when the air got warmer and they were, it was the only place I’ve ever been in the Air Force where they kept the aircraft in the hangars, heated hangars, otherwise they couldn’t have started them in the morning and they used to start them up in the hangar which was something, you know, you didn’t do in the Air Force, but they had to. And as they took off you had a great, what do you call it, streak and when we went on cross country’s we used to have to take all the gear that we would need if we pranged out in the wild and this, the thing that interested me was the way that we, none of this nonsense with clearing the snow off the runways. They just had a tractor with three big corrugated iron, about that diameter, about the length of this room and they had the three behind the tractor. It just took that amount of the runway up and they just went on it and crushed it down and none of this nonsense of clearing it and we used to fly on that. It was a, it was a bit dicey. I would have rather have gone there not in the winter. Everywhere we went we were freezing and from there, when we’d finished we came back to - what was the name? I can’t remember the name of the place now. Any case, the base that we went to when we went out, we came back to that and we sailed by boat and that was more or less, that was the training.
NM: So tell me about the progression from -
TC: I beg pardon?
NM: Tell me about the progression from basic trainers to multi engine.
TC: Yeah. Well where we are. I’m just trying to think of something. How it fed in. I changed on. First of all, one thing I did miss earlier on that we did a test. That we were sent down from Manchester where we were in a great park. We were gradually sent to see if we were worth training and we, we did a course of about six hours on Manchesters down near Reading and if you didn’t get through that you didn’t get pushed on to the thing. That was an earlier thing I didn’t mention. So, we’d been to Canada. Trained, passed, came home and then we went to, I went to Abingdon to fly on twin engine big ones. Oh crumbs. Wait a minute. Can you?
NM: Yeah.
TC: Wellingtons we flew there. Yeah. Wellingtons. And I flew them again later ‘cos I instructed, I went as instructor on them. They were the bigger aeroplane. They were operational. And after Abingdon we were posted to various things. I finished up at 158 Squadron and we operated from Lissett which was about six, seven miles down south of Bridlington. That was, they were all that area, were all Wellingtons as against Lancasters and that and the others and we, just trying to think of the sequence. I don’t want to mess you about. I did my tour from Lissett. It’s all in there.
NM: So tell me a little bit about when doing your training you could have gone, I guess, to fighters, single engines or multi engines. Why or how did you end up in multi engines?
TC: I’ll think about it. I don’t know. No. It was, we were all associated with Bomber Command right really from the beginning.
NM: Ok.
TC: Because that’s why we did training on these Wellingtons which were still operational in some sense. They were a very nice aircraft to fly though and then, ‘cause later on I was instructing on them. Yeah, they were very good but they were older obviously and they didn’t do many ops on Wellingtons by that time.
NM: So, what time was this, you were -
TC: I went on to -
NM: What stage did you join 158?
TC: What stage did I go there?
NM: What was, what was the time of year and what year?
TC: I don’t know.
NM: Ok.
TC: It might be in here. I’ll have to remind myself.
[pause]
TC: There we are.
NM: So your training was in -
TC: 1942.
NM: 1942.
TC: ’43. Ansons.
NM: So you were training in -
TC: Yeah.
NM: Late ’42.
TC: Yeah.
NM: Early ’43.
TC: This. Oh Halifax. There we are.
NM: We can get the dates later. That’s fine.
TC: Oh that’s the Con Unit.
NM: Yeah.
TC: Where -
Other: You used to tell me how you chose your crew.
NM: Well I was going to ask about that.
TC: Oh.
NM: I was going to ask. That was going to be my next question. So, right. Good timing.
TC: That’s easy.
NM: So how did, how did you get your crew together? -
TC: They put us all different ranks or trades into a, well, no, it was a big hall. It wasn’t a hangar but we just mixed and you saw a chap with a navigator’s badge and you liked the look of him you said, you know, ‘Would you like to join me?’ And it was as silly as that but it worked.
NM: It worked.
TC: It did work. Yeah.
NM: So as pilot did you feel you had to pick the crew or did anybody else sort of join up and then come and see you as a pilot and say we want to join you as a pilot? How did it -
TC: Yes they did, it was mixed up that way. The only boob we made was a wireless operator because he used to spend more time with women than anything else. He was, he used to get drunk and fortunately he went lack of moral fibre and he was whipped out. You don’t even see them go. He went. He was there one day, in there, and the next morning he’d gone and never knew what happened to him. We didn’t want to know. He used to drink and womanise. He would have been a [inaudible] and the man I got in placement of him was just the tops. Just the opposite.
NM: How did the crew feel about losing that wireless operator?
TC: I think they felt the same as me. Let’s get shot of him.
NM: And was this before any operations or -
TC: Yes. It was before, fortunately, and we, the station we were at, was at, oh crumbs, there’s so many places we went. Number 20 OTU yes. Yeah,it was, trying to think of the places. It’s still a, it’s still an airport, Royal Air Force station. Oh crumbs. I’m sorry. Scotland. It’s near Elgin.
NM: Leuchars?
TC: Loughbr – No.
NM: Leuchars?
TC: Hmmnn?
NM: Leuchars?
TC: No.
NM: Ok.
TC: Oh crumbs. Can you spare me a minute?
NM: Don’t worry. No, don’t worry about it.
TC: It’s old age.
NM: That’s fine.
TC: I’m sorry.
NM: And that was your conversion unit. OTU was it?
TC: Yes.
NM: On to Halifaxes.
TC: No. Wellingtons.
NM: You were still Wellingtons.
TC: Yeah. There they are. That was the Wellington.
NM: So did you convert to Halifaxes before you went to 158 and your first operation?
TC: Yeah.
NM: Or did you fly Wellingtons?
TC: Pardon?
NM: Or did you fly Wellingtons with 158? When you went to 158.
TC: No.
NM: Operations.
TC: Yes.
NM: You -
TC: Straight from Scotland.
And I picked up this wireless op en-route and it was, he was the best you could get really, and we did our first ops. Yeah. It would be here but -
NM: So describe what was life like on 158 Squadron when you, when you arrived and how did you feel?
TC: Oh yeah. They, they, I think what I did, I did a second pilot op just to get you in and I didn’t. I went, I was sent to, just before I got to the squadron, we were sent, two of us were sent to another squadron, an active squadron for, and we went with an experienced pilot, just as a passenger really, and I’m trying to think where we went to but it was a bit hairy. Lost, it wasn’t a big op but we lost twenty two aircraft,I can remember that and that was my first thing and a bit nervy. But you realise how little you’ve done near the enemy, really, when that happened and the man I flew with was an ex 158 Squadron and he’d gone to this station as an instructor actually. He was quite a squadron leader then but the only thing I can remember vaguely, very little about it, we were, there was aeroplanes, people flitting past us and the light from the fires enough to see that you could, there were a lot of aeroplanes around and all of a sudden one, I think it was an enemy fighter, came ‘wooooph’, like that, going the opposite way and over us and the pilot I’d got he said, ‘Keep your bloody eyes open.’ As if it was going to make any difference. He hadn’t seen it. I thought well this is good. Yeah. They were twenty two lost that night out of a small number going and I thought you know, this is, I’m not so sure whether I like all this. Well, but we settled down and we did, when I did that I was still at the training place for Halifaxes and the ground crew said to me, ‘You just missed,’ what’s his name? The famous -
Other: Cheshire.
TC: Cheshire. He was CO of this Squadron. Well, training, and they thought he was God. He said he was, even the chaps who used to do our hut up said he’s a marvellous man. He used to go out and play cards with the ground staff. He kept them happy you see and he had a marvellous reputation. He was really was.
NM: Even, even then.
TC: Even then. Yes. Yeah. We’d heard of him and he just disappeared and the bloke that replaced him wasn’t much to write home about. But so -
NM: So tell me about life at Lissett.
TC: Life at Lissett was quite good. There were, you know, the flight commanders were quite, they were quite good. Some of them had done two tours anyway you know, that sort of thing, so you always had some respect for them because you knew they, they were well ahead of you and it was quite pleasant except I got myself into trouble when I was not been there long. We used, when we used to go into the briefing we used to have a sheet of paper that told us what we were doing and the heights of flying and I went [inaudible] exit to the lavatory before I go and I dropped this piece of paper. Came out, I didn’t use it. It dropped out my hand and there was some nasty type, ground staff chap. He was a clerk or something in the office. He found it and he went in there and instead of coming up to me he took it to the wing commander. So there was an announcement in the briefing room of some idiot has done so and so and everyone knew it was me anyway, and the next day I had, there was a call on the, what’s the name? What do you call them, the outside not the radio but the, for me to report to the station commander’s office and that and as I went in and actually it turned out he was a jolly good bloke [inaudible] and as I walked in he said, ‘Oh Coles. Aren’t you a bloody idiot?’ I said, ‘Yes sir.’ And he said, he didn’t do anything really, he didn’t. He just said, ‘You’re a bloody idiot. Go on. Clear off.’ And that was it. And I always thought he was a decent bloke and, spoke to jimabout it once at one of the reunions we had and he wrote a very good book on the squadron. Anyway, that’s that. What else can I say?
NM: So back to operations. How -
TC: Yeah
NM: Tell me about your tour.
TC: I suppose we were pretty fortunate in a way ‘cause we, we made it. We got a bit of flak one night and the, the engineer and the bomb aimer both got bits, little bits of flak on them and there was a horrible smell actually, and it was the bomb aimer was overcome with the, with the flak hitting him and he said, he got, I said, ‘What the hell is that smell?’ And he’d got on the phone and said, ‘Gentlemen, I’ve shit myself.’ And that was [laughs] but he wasn’t the only one apparently. I think the flight engineer did as well. It was, I’d never heard of people going like that but probably the effect on them.
Other: Tell him about Andre.
TC: Andre le Leux?
Other: Yes.
TC: Yeah. He was, we got very friendly and he was a Belgian navigator, I think he was. Yeah. And -
NM: What? In your crew?
TC: No. He, but we got to know him because he was in the aircraft. When we were on leave he flew and they got hit in daylight and he was the only one that got out and I -
Other: They’d taken Y-Yoke hadn’t they?
TC: Sorry?
Other: They had taken Y-Yoke.
TC: Yeah they took Y-Yoke and that was our aircraft, yeah, but as I say they got the chop and he was the only survivor and he was always apologising to me when we used to meet. We got very friendly with him and his wife. He was Belgian. And er -
Other: They all used to come to the reunions.
TC: Yeah.
Other: Didn’t he?
TC: We used to -
Other: And he had nobody.
TC: Yeah and we, but I used to tell him off for losing our aeroplane and it went well, you know.
Other: You made him an honorary member didn’t you? It was a big meeting of your crew.
TC: Yes.
NM: So your tour lasted thirty operations did it?
TC: No. How many did I do? Thirty seven I did.
NM: Thirty seven.
TC: Yeah, and I was, my last one was going to be because we were the senior crew by then and we were going to daylight op on, [inaudible] German city, it was, it was well inland in Germany I know. I can remember that much. And it was our Squadron’s, I was going to lead our Squadron and it was our Squadron’s turn to lead in 4 Group and it was 4 Group’s turn to lead the op of all the Squadrons and I thought, ‘Crumbs, this is it.’ And, but the night before we were airborne for somewhere over near Kiel ‘cause Kiel, we were the nearest aerodrome to Germany because Kiel was just over there and we had an engine nuisance. It was, the ground crew said it was the plugs afterwards. They said, they said they were using, not using new ones. They were using revamped plugs and that one engine was going and I thought, well I’m not going. I’m not going all over there with a, with a, we had a bloody great bomb on. Just one. It weighed, it was a four thousand pounder I think. And I thought the engines, one of these engines was popping and I thought well I’m not going all there we’ll drop this in the sea and we made sure there were no fishing boats underneath. It was dark but you could usually see them and we dropped this and it it made such a bang it rattled every window in Bridlington apparently and that didn’t do much good for our reputation and I think that when I say I got back on that we got rid of that but it did, it was a hell of a bang and this other raid was coming the next day I think and I think they thought I needed to clear off so they, they finished our tour and we were, that was just, I only heard that just before this raid that was coming up that we would be in the front, I think someone thought, ‘He’s losing his nerve. We’ll put him off.’ It didn’t, it didn’t get me like that but it could have done I suppose. So we were posted. I went to Abingdon to fly Wellingtons which I’d trained on Wellingtons so that didn’t and I had a very enjoyable time there at -
NM: So at what stage were you awarded the DFC?
TC: Just after I finished.
Other: 1945.
TC: Pardon?
Other: 1945.
TC: Yeah. Well that would be just after -
Other: Yes.
TC: I finished.
NM: After you finished your tour.
TC: Yes. And the navigator got the DFC. He was a character. He was a policeman from Liverpool and he didn’t like the idea of being a navigator. He should have been a pilot you see and, but give him his due he finished up with his own aeroplane and he learned to fly and he was a private policeman. That was his living. He said, I used to, he said, ‘I get all sorts of funny things. I go up the islands, land on the beach. And he said, ‘I had to go around and find all these .’ It was nearly all divorce things. He said it got embarrassing sometimes finding out what went on and he also, he ran in the Olympics just after the war and he had second place in a sprint and he was well known. I’ve got a book on it that he’s written. The rest of the crew kept touch but we’ve lost touch now with one or two. One I’ve, one of the gunners I phoned last Christmas and he was going to find out about the wireless operator but I’ve heard no more from him so they’ve probably both popped off. But er -
Other: There’s three of you left isn’t there out of seven which as you’re all in your nineties is not too bad.
TC: Yeah. Yeah.
NM: So you still keep in -
TC: But I’m not sure now but that’s it. Yeah.
NM: So you finished your tour in ’45 and then went to Abingdon.
TC: Yeah.
NM: To instruct on Wellingtons.
TC: Yes.
NM: So -
TC: But I did a course on instructing. I’m trying to think where I did that. It was only a short thing. Yeah Abingdon. I was there quite a while and it was a good station and what else I could say?
NM: So, so back at Lissett tell me a little bit more about your off duty hours. What, between operations, what was life like between operations?
TC: Oh not bad. We used to go in to - where did we go?
Other: Bridlington.
TC: Hmmn?
Other: Bridlington
TC: Bridlington yes. And that was a few miles down the road. We had bikes or we, or we got lifts in but we usually biked in and that was it. We used to have drinks in pubs and usually had a meal because it was, there was a shop there that was two Italian women and they used to have queues outside their little café and if we walked up she used to, they used to say, ‘Come in,’ and we used to go top of the queue. We used to get some dirty looks from outside but the, yeah. It was usually drinking and laughing and it was good relief.
NM: You’d go in as a crew would you?
TC: No. Not all of us. It was usually, I think, three or four of us because the wireless op. What was his name?
Other: Dorian.
TC: Dorian. He didn’t, didn’t join in our drinking and that. So, I don‘t know what he did but -
Other: Still you kept in touch with him for -
TC: Yes.
Other: I mean we used to go to all the reunions up till a few years ago. Met them all.
NM: Was there much social mixing between the officers and the NCOs?
TC: Oh yes. That didn’t count for anything really especially if half your crew were. There was only the navigator and the bomb aimer were commissioned so the others we all went together. It didn’t make any odds.
NM: Was there a sort of special pride in 4 Group or 158 or Halifaxes?.
TC: We, well for Halifaxes and 158 really because you used to hear so much about the, well any of the other bombers. You don’t think of it. You get to the stage where, you know, yours is better than theirs but yeah. It was only, you could only go to Bridlington. We used to go to another little village up the road sometimes for a drink. That was all. Only two or three of us but there wasn’t with loads of other aircrew. It was just local bods so it makes a change, you know.
NM: So of your thirty seven operations are there any more particular targets or experiences that you had?
TC: Not really, I don’t think. It’s all in here. It’s worth a, you know, look through. Where we went.
NM: Yes, well I will.
TC: First operational tour completed. Thirty seven sorties.
NM: We’ll take a look at that in a little while.
TC: Yeah.
NM: If that’s ok.
TC: Yeah. And -
NM: So -
TC: We did thirty seven ops. And there were 246 aircraft lost on those ops that we did. I don’t know why I made that note and, well, it tells you quite a bit in there and I’ve got a good sign there.
NM: We’ll come on to that.
TC: Mmm?
NM: I’ll certainly take a look at that in a minute.
TC: Yeah.
NM: If that’s ok.
TC: Yes.
NM: So you went, you went from operations to Abingdon.
TC: Yeah.
NM: And how long were you at Abingdon for? Training. Or as an instructor?
TC: Crumbs. Till I, till I was demobbed. No. I got, I got another friend of mine and I we were, got posted to, what was it? It was a, they were, they were flying, oh crumbs, I’ve got it in here, I flew so many. Wellingtons, this was just before I, after I left Abingdon. Dakotas. 138, 1 Training Control Unit so I was only there a long while and I had blotted my copy book because I went up with one of their instructors in a Dakota one day and he was being clever and he’d been a pupil at Abingdon. I remembered him and didn’t think much of him but he, one day he was trying to show me something, oh, and he had another trainer with us and he lost, he lost control of it and I pulled it out, you know. He did something stupid and I thought, ‘No, I don’t want this.’ Well, myself and this other friend of mine, we were together there and we asked to be taken off the course. That brought the pains on because we found out that they’d had a whole load of people getting, asking to be taken off because they didn’t think much of it and they weren’t having any more and we got posted. We went to headquarters at, of the, that headquarters of that well, whole unit. You know, the whole thing and apparently so many had done it we got dismissed out of there and got pushed around and bullied and we, in the end there was, we were getting a lift there one day and a car stopped and there was a very high ranking RAF chap and his side and he was that man who lost his arm. Do you remember? He was a very well-known man, very highly decorated. He went to get a crew that had crashed or something and helped, went to get them or something and he lost an arm and it was him in the car. Took us down to the base. We got bullied around a bit, the two of us but then we were sent downstairs to an old wing commander, an old boy and he couldn’t have, he was just the opposite. He said, ‘I know what you’ve been through, you chaps. I’ll get you seen to.’ And he got us a little job each. Not flying but on ground staff and, that, that was towards the end and I was finished then really. Dakotas. That’s it. We got chucked off there and the only other ones I’ve flown I put those little marks on there, aeroplanes I’ve flown with. For instance I flew with Denham with my son Malcolm and another chap from Ipswich had a plane that we went in. And two gliders. And a Lynx at the Wattisham Army Air Corps. We, we were in a club of ex-RAF chaps at, when we went to Frinton and we visited this place and they were the army chaps and they said, ‘Come on, we’re going to get you blokes airborne.’ And we were up in these flaming helicopters. They didn’t seem very safe to me but it was quite, it was good fun. I’ve made a note of it. Ipswich. Dunstable. And we flew. You flew in a glider. [inaudible] So that’s, that’s it.
NM: So how did you find -
TC: I think -
NM: The transition from operations to -
TC: I beg pardon?
NM: How did you find the transition going from an operational unit to a non-operational unit back at Abingdon?
TC: Well I suppose relief really. They were all ex [inaudible] and they were all the same and they were a ragged lot and funny. Yeah. I enjoyed going to Abingdon.
Other: You made some good friends there didn’t you like Bob Withers.
TC: Yes. The flight commander. We bumped into him in Harrow didn’t we?
Other: Yes, we met.
TC: He took us home and, we, he’s not living but his son is and he’s on the, we’re going to arrange to meet him soon.
Other: Yes. He now -
NM:: So -
Other: Goes around schools talking doesn’t he?
TC: Yes. He’s a cripple but he does everything he can to push what his father did and he goes around the schools and dresses up in his dad’s old clothes and gives them talks. A good lad.
NM: So it’s -
TC: We’re supposed to be meeting him soon.
Other: Yeah.
NM: It sounds to me like you’ve kept in touch with squadron reunions and associations over the years.
TC: Yeah. Well we used to go to 158 reunion every year but then it dropped off hasn’t it? For us.
Other: That’s because the original crews -
TC: Were all popping off and there’s no one to organise it.
Other: Or the last time we went we didn’t know anyone because –
TC: No.
Other: They were nearly all the sons or the relatives of the actual veterans. They weren’t that many left.
TC: No and now they meet in fact –
Other: And it’s a long way to drive isn’t it?
TC: Yeah.
Other: Or go.
TC: Yeah. And to say we don’t, we didn’t, the last time we went we didn’t know anyone really.
Other: No. So there’s no point in going.
TC: Just sitting with strangers.
TC: And that was a few years back and, but they still, a little group of them meet.
Other: But we went for many -
TC: Half a dozen.
Other: Many years didn’t we?
TC: Hmmn?
Other: We went for many many years.
TC: Oh yes.
Other: And it was great.
TC: Yeah.
Other: It was lovely. The reunions.
TC: Yes.
NM: So you were demobbed in ’45. So what, what have you done since then?
TC: Went back to my old job with a one man, man who made instruments and didn’t, oh, he went down south for a while and I had to keep the thing going and we made timers for x ray machines. That was his main thing and then I lost touch. I didn’t want to go with him anymore and I got a job at -
Other: Rotax?
TC: No. No before then. I went to the, crumbs.
Other: Wasn’t it Rotax?
TC: No. It was instruments at, I’ve forgotten the name of the firm now. A big firm. You know. All I know is I was offered this job and I took it and I left and then found another job and they said anytime you want a job there will be one for you here.’ That was at a big firm at, oh God. I’m sorry about this. I can’t -
Other: When did you go to Rotax ?
TC: Oh crumbs. Yeah. Yeah I went to Rotax and got a job as a draughtsman really but I knew the man that gave me the job and he made me go around his house topping me up on my drawing which was good of him. No one else knew. It would have been a bit of a bother if he had but he was a friend of my brother’s really I knew. And that was at Rotax which was part of Joseph Lucas and they were taken over by another big firm and the whole lot just I left because this was all happening and they went, just went. I don’t know who took them over but it was Lucas of Birmingham but they, they went out and packed up. The last time I went past the place where I worked at Laverstock Green there was just, it was just bricks on the ground where they’d knocked the factory, and the factory was only built ten years before. Anyway, that’s not to do with this I’m afraid.
NM: So then you retired from that did you?
TC: Yes. What did I do last? Anything useful?
Other: You were just sixty weren’t you? Yeah.
TC: That’s it.
Other: When you retired.
Other: Being retired thirty three years.
TC: Yeah. So -
NM: When, you when look back and reflect on your time in Bomber Command what are your, what are your thoughts?
TC: I’m glad I did it. Yeah. Yes. I wouldn’t have, I wouldn’t have missed it if I’d had the chance because there are so many people that you got on well with. The ground crew and people like that. Yeah it was well worth it I think. I don’t know what good I did but as I say the fact that I did thirty seven ops was a bit peculiar because they, originally when they started they, I think they used to do twenty four but then things got perhaps a bit easier and they put that up. I’ve forgotten what number they put it up to but then they did it again and I should have done forty. They put them up to forty but the time I, when I was put off and I’d done that number [24] they went back to a more respectable number because there were not enough people to finish really but no, it’s, I’m glad I did it.
NM: And how do you think Bomber Command has been treated since the war in terms of history and recognition?
TC: Well I think a good example is Churchill when they bombed and the Americans bombed -
Other: Dresden.
TC: Dresden. Churchill didn’t want to know you know and it was him who’d been pushing us out and I’ll never forget that and I lost my respect for him. I thought he was good but he, like everybody else I suppose. Think of themselves but yeah that took the gilt off it.
Other: It still rankles doesn’t it?
TC: It does.
Other: That you haven’t got a medal.
TC: Yes
Other: Just got the soppy clasp.
TC: Hmmn?
Other: You got that soppy little clasp.
TC: Oh yeah. Yeah [laughs]
NM: So what did you feel about the clasp?
TC: You tell him about the clasp.
Other: It’s your interview.
TC: Well I’m trying to think what it is. I mean how do you describe it?
Other: The pin.
TC: Yeah. Where is it?
NM: In terms of recognition it doesn’t.
Other: Tell Them Tell them on the machine what you -
NM: What do you feel about the award of the clasp versus a campaign medal?
TC: Not a lot. No. That’s being polite.
Other: Most of you and your crew thought it was, it is an insult
TC: Yeah well only the navigator and I got a DFC. The others. Nothing.
NM: And how did the crew feel about that? Or how did you feel about it?
TC: I thought it was very unfair. They could have even had a decent medal for just being in the Bomber Command in that sense. I don’t think there is anything but I mean, why? The navigator I would have said deserved it but whether I did or not I don’t know. I suppose I did ‘cause I got them back safely but you know the others did a good job. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know what else.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Tom Coles
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Nigel Moore
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-28
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AColesT150928
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Tom Coles was born in Watford and signed up for the Royal Air Force at the age of 18. He went to Canada for training, a period saddened by the loss of his sister who was in the Womens Auxilliary Air Force. Tom flew Manchesters, then went to 158 Squadron at RAF Abingdon where he was on Wellingtons. He tells of his time at RAF Lissett, and off-duty social life at Bridlington. Discusses his service with 4 Group emphasising German anti-aircraft fire; by the time he left the Royal Air Force, he had completed 37 operations. Talks about post war life in the manufacturing industry, reunions for 158 Squadron, lack of recognition of Bomber Command veterans. Elaborates on the bombing of Dresden and on the role Winston Churchill had in that operation.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Bridlington
Germany
Germany--Dresden
Canada
Format
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00:58:25 audio recording
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
158 Squadron
4 Group
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
crewing up
demobilisation
Distinguished Flying Cross
fear
grief
ground personnel
Halifax
lack of moral fibre
Manchester
military living conditions
perception of bombing war
pilot
RAF Abingdon
RAF Lissett
recruitment
training
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/474/8381/MClydeSmithD39856-160919-04.2.pdf
f7527bdcc9b68b15110a25b101935993
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Clyde-Smith, Denis
Clyde-Smith, D
Description
An account of the resource
Collection contains 26 items and concerns Squadron Leader Denis Clyde-Smith Distinguished Service Order, Distinguished Flying Cross, who joined the Royal Air Force and trained as a pilot in 1937. He flew in the anti aircraft cooperation role including remotely piloted Queen Bee aircraft before serving on Battle aircraft on 32 Squadron. He completed operational tours on Wellington with 115 and 218 Squadrons and Wellington and Lancaster with 9 Squadron after which he went to the aircraft and armament experimental establishment at Boscombe Down. The collection consists of two logbooks, aircraft histories of some of the aircraft he flew, photographs of people and aircraft, newspaper articles and gallantry award certificate.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Clyde-Smith and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-19
Identifier
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Clyde-Smith, D
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
The enclosed aircraft histories are all in respect of Tiger Moth aircraft flown by you while undergoing ab-initio training at Sywell. I have commenced the breakdown of their service life as from the date of their impressment into RAF service. However, prior to this, the Tigers in question were operated under a Type ‘A’ Civil Contract which was put into use under the Expansion Scheme of the 1930 era. Then on the 30th of November, 1939, the Air Ministry took over command and RAF roundels were applied to the Tigers, although their civil markings were retained until 1940/41. The Tigers at Sywell were impressed under two Contracts, each issued on the 17th of September, 1940, as follows:
BB693-706 allocated to 6 E.F.T.S. under Contract No. All3015/40 dtd 17/9/40.
BB788-793 allocated to 6 E.F.T.S. under Contract No. All3015/40 (2nd part)
G-ADGF c/n 3345 impressed as BB704
Used at Sywell until 9/8/42, when it was transferred to 10 OUT at Abingdon. Released to 6 MU Brize Norton on the 9th of February, 1943, and later issued to 16 E.F.T.S. Burnaston. Here BB704 was coded ‘7’ later taking the code FIP:A (the four letter codes were issued to Flying Training Command, circa 1945/46). On 31/7/46, BB704 was flown to 9 MU Cosford, and stored until released to 21 E.F.T.S. Booker (near High Wycombe) on 25/3/48. Coded FIW:O, BB704 remained with 21 E.F.T.S. until transfer to 7 F.T.S. Cottesmore on 30/3/50. On June 19th of the same year it was transferred to Station Flight, Feltwell, taking the code ‘W’. However, it’s active use was now rapidly drawing to a close, and on 30/11/50, it was allocated the instructional airframe serial 6805M and delivered to No. 664 ATC Squadron, St. Walter & St. John’s Godalming County School (Surrey Wing).
[page break]
G-ADGG c/n 3346 impressed as BB695
Used at Sywell throughout it’s entire career and was destroyed in a landing accident on 12/5/41.
G-ADGT c/n 3338 impressed as BB697
Continued in use at Sywell until transfer to 26 E.F.T.S. Theale on, 15/7/42. Coded B26, BB697 remained in use at Theale until it was released to store at 12 MU Kirkbridge on 18/7/45. It’s next move was overseas to Germany and 652 Squadron where it served from 17/10/45 to 9/5/46. Following a year spent at No. 151 Aircraft Repair Unit, BB697 was flown to 5 MU Kemble for disposal.
On 27/8/47, BB697 was sold to a civilian operator, and was restored to the Civil Register, and during the early 1960’s it was still in use, registered to Westwick Distributors, Foulsham.
G-ADGV c/n 3340 impressed as BB694
Used by 6 E.F.T.S. until transfer to 29 E.F.T.S. Clyffe Pypard on 15/7/42. Released to 5 MU Kemble on 14/8/46, BB694 was eventually released to the Royal Navy. In RNAS service BB694 served at Stretton, Lossiemouth, and Arbroath before transfer on 17/11/60, to the Britannia Flight at Roborough (Plymouth).
G-ADGW c/n 3341 impressed as BB706
Sevred at Sywell throughout the war years, and was eventually released to store at 10 MU Hullavington. Struck off Charge on 22/5/50, BB706 was disposed of to W.A. Rollason Ltd., who in turn sold it to the D.H. Technical College for ground instruction purposes.
[page break]
G-ADGX c/n 3342 impressed as BB698
Continued in use at Sywell until 9/8/42, when it was flown to RAF Doncaster. Following a brief spell at Taylorcraft, BB698 was released to 5 MU Kemble on 24/6/43. From Kemble BB698 was transfered [sic] to the Royal Navy and delivered to RNAS Hinstock. Attached to 758 Squadron and later RNAS Lee-on-Solent, BB698 went on to serve with B Flight of 798 Squadron, Station Flight Lee-on-Solent, RNAS Evarton, and 727 Squadron RNAS Gosport, in that order before being sold to the Wiltshire School of Flying on 5/2/51. Restored to the Civil Register it was lost in a crash at Thruxton on 11/7/53, when it’s pilot overshot the airfield.
G-ADGY c/n 3343 impressed as BB699
Served for it’s entire life at Sywell, and was lost in a crash during a low flying exercise near Turvey, Bedfordshire, on 25/7/44, when it struck some power cables.
G-ADGZ c/n 3344 impressed as BB700
Used at Sywell until transfer to 7 A.G.S. Stormy Down on 13/8/42. Delivered to Towyn U.A.S. in 1943, and damaged beyond repair taxing [sic] at RAF Towyn, 10/2/44.
[page break]
G-ADIH c/n 3349 impressed as BB789
While in use at 6 E.F.T.S. BB789 took the code ‘89’. Released to 5 MU Kemble on 9/8/42, and then to RAF Speke on 31/10/42. However, by 6/12/42, BB789 had found it’s way back to 5 MU, where it was eventually converted to an instructional airframe. Bearing the serial 3654M it was delivered to 2006 ATC Squadron at Cheltenham on 2/4/43.
During 1946 this Tiger was handed over – without Air Ministry approval – to the Gloucester Flying Club, who promptly spent £425 in restoring G-ADIH to flying condition, and naturally thought the Tiger their property. However, the Air Ministry then stepped in and requested the return of their aircraft – the matter being eventually settled by a payment by the Gloucester Flying Club of £50 to Air Ministry. G-ADIH remained on the Civil Register until 20/11/52, when it was destroyed during a landing accident near Ramsgate.
G-ADII c/n 3350 impressed as BB701
Served with 6 E.F.T.S. throughout the war years, and was released to 9 MU Cosford on 30/8/46. Remaining in storage until 6/4/49, when it was delivered to 9 R.F.S. Doncaster. Destroyed on 22/4/50, when it spun into a sports field near Hansworth.
G-ADIJ c/n 3351 impressed as BB788
Used at Sywell throughout the war, and taken to 9 MU Cosford on 19/7/45, for disposal. Sold to Marshalls of Cambridge in 4/46, and restored to [crossed out]the the[/crossed out]
[page break]
to/ [sic]
the Civil Register as G-ADIJ. In December 1952 G-ADIJ was sold abroad to New Zealand as ZK-BBS and was converted for crop spraying. Used in this role by Northern Aviation Limited, ZK-BBS was destroyed in a crash near Dargaville on, [sic] 15/12/55.
No details at present for G-ADEZ – may have been lost prior to 1939. Further information on the aircraft that you flew will be passed in due course.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Aircraft histories of Tiger Moth aircraft flown by Denis Clyde-Smith
Description
An account of the resource
Histories of twelve Tiger Moth aircraft flown by Denis Clyde Smith while undergoing ab-initio training at Sywell.
Format
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Five page typewritten document
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Personal research
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MClydeSmithD39856-160919-04
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Navy
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
England--West Midlands
England--Wolverhampton
England--Lincolnshire
England--Stamford
England--Norfolk
England--Thetford
England--Cumbria
England--Carlisle
England--Berkshire
England--Theale (West Berkshire)
England--Northamptonshire
England--Northampton
England--Buckinghamshire
England--High Wycombe
England--Surrey
England--Godalming
England--Norwich
England--Wiltshire
Scotland--Moray
Scotland--Angus
Scotland--Arbroath
England--Cheshire
England--Warrington
England--Devon
England--Plymouth
England--Yorkshire
England--Doncaster
England--Hampshire
England--Gosport
England--Bedfordshire
England--Bedford
England--Gloucestershire
England--Cheltenham
England--Cirencester
England--Chippenham (Wiltshire)
England--Shropshire
England--Shrewsbury
Scotland--Ross and Cromarty
Scotland--Invergordon
England--Andover
Wales--Mid Glamorgan
Wales--Bridgend
Wales--Dyfed
Wales--Aberystwyth
England--Kent
England--Ramsgate
Germany
New Zealand
New Zealand--Dargaville
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cambridge
England--London
England--Hounslow
England--Cumberland
England--Middlesex
England--Staffordshire
England--Royal Wootton Bassett
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1951
1952
1953
1955
1960
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
Flying Training School
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Clyffe Pypard
RAF Cosford
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Feltwell
RAF Kemble
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Stormy Down
RAF Sywell
RAF Towyn
Tiger Moth
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/505/8403/PDavisSL1501.1.jpg
6e4096e9e41fc641ba50790df8c92499
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/505/8403/ADavisSL151202.1.mp3
19415213e173ef5ffc6150fd7b822399
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Davis, Sidney Lawrence
S L Davis
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Davis, SL
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-02
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Sidney Davis. He flew operations as a wireless operator with 617, 619 and 9 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
SLD: I’m Laurie Davis. I was a wireless operator in 619 squadron based at Strubby in Lincolnshire. I joined at Lords Cricket Ground at 10 o’clock in the morning on the 17th of May and found out that evening, when I went to St John’s Wood, the billet, that it was the morning that 617 returned from the Dambusters raid which brought back memories at the end of my squadron career but like all air crew we did our training. I was a wireless op and eventually I found myself at Silverstone and we went into a massive room and we were just told that you would come out the other end as a six man crew and this was somewhat flabbergasting but I wandered around and coming towards me was a chap, sergeant, we were all sergeants in those days, with wings up and we looked at one another and I said, ‘Are you with anyone?’ And he said, ‘No.’ And we introduced ourselves. Johnny Taylor from Bristol. And we wandered around and we found a chap, a navigator Jack [?] he came from Bath. We joined up. We thought, well, we’re halfway there and then we saw a chap with his B brevvy up. A bomb aimer. And he was Norman [?] a Londoner. Came from Potters Bar. So we were almost there. We thought we only wanted a couple of gunners now and we saw these two chaps coming along together. Compared with me being just twenty they were mature men to say the least but probably they were only in their mid-thirties but it turned out they were both married. Joe Crossland turned out to be the mid upper gunner. He was from Wakefield and Tommy [Klines] who was the rear gunner, he was from Warrington. So we all joined up finished up the other end of this room with a cup of tea or a coffee and it was then that the skipper as we called him, Johnny, John Taylor, said, ‘We’ll call you Red,’ because at that time I had bright red hair. So the rest of my time with that enjoyable crew was I called Red. We moved on there for a couple of weeks, three weeks I think, on Wellingtons. A noisy, rattly old thing and then we went on to Syerston on to Stirlings. Again, just familiarisation and that and that was then we picked up another member of the crew. An engineer and he came from St Helen’s and I must admit he’s the one fellow that I can’t recall a name all the time and to this day I still try to find out his surname and Christian name. Anyway, we then went on to Lancasters and to conversion and then finished going on to 619 squadron in Strubby at Lincolnshire and we did some flying around for a week and lo and behold we knew that to go on operations the pilot always went with an experienced crew and that caused a bit of sensitive humour because there was always some wit thrown in and Johnny Taylor came back from his office one morning and said, ‘I’m flying tonight with a crew,’ so we joked we’d sort out all his personal possessions and share them out if he didn’t come back because we knew that sometimes that’s what happened, unfortunately. So later in the afternoon I get a call to go to the wireless office to be told that I was flying with him and of course that caused more humour and we went off and with Flying Officer Whitely, a senior there and, believe it or not, it was the longest trip I did of the twelve raids. We went to Dresden. Nine hours twenty minutes and quite something in my memory to see the vastness of the fires as a first time on there because when you finished and the pilot and bomb aimer were doing a run up to the target, about a mile and a half or two miles away, my job was to stand up in the astrodome and keep a lookout above mainly because as I found out on the other raids you saw aircraft on other raids with their bomb doors open above you left and right so interrupting the bomb aimer who was calling to the pilot, ‘Steady. Left. Left. Steady. Left,’ I would say, ‘Johnny, there’s one at 11 o’clock’ or, ‘one at 2 o’clock,’ and he’d try and move over to save the bombs coming down through us. It was successful, that Dresden trip and we came back and we were very privileged and lucky to get through eleven more as a crew.
[machine paused]
MJ: It’s on.
SLD: Having, having experienced, pilot and I, our first raid which was horrendous as has proved over the years with Dresden we settled down to training flights and then successfully got through eleven more. One, one that again focusses in my mind of how lucky you are to be here today is we went to an oil refinery called Harburg just outside of Hamburg and as I experienced on the Dresden raid you flew in some two miles away with a straight course for the bomb aimer and the pilot but on this occasion all I could see over the target was a series of ten and fifteen searchlights and we were a mile or so away but I remember at least three aircraft were caught in the lights, hit by the barrage and exploded into a ball and down they went. And I can think, think now to myself thinking well I hope they don’t pick us up before we’ve got rid of ours but we managed to get through, drop the bombs and come out the other side and that’s the hairiest one I would think apart from the Dresden. The dramatic scenes of fire. But the raids, we were lucky and successful and as I say we did eleven as a crew. Twelve in all and they were great colleagues. When the European war finished we were switched to Waddington. 617. And we were involved in what they called Dodge and Exodus and that was flying POWs, our POWs from Italy, Naples and Bari back to England and we used to take twenty four soldiers out, sitting in the fuselage and fly them out and then do a return trip and the humorous part was, I suppose it’s humorous at our age of twenty, twenty one, I was still not twenty one but on the way back they wanted to go in to the mid upper turret so we used to say, I think we used to say, ‘Don’t go around one side more than twenty times otherwise it’ll unscrew,’ but they loved to and to see the patchwork quilt that was England really. They would go up forward by the navigator, the engineer or the bomb aimer and see it so the joy on their faces was worth every second of those flights, being POWs for years and came back. And then towards the end of ‘45 we’d been waiting to fly out to India as nine, with 9 squadron as part of the Tiger Force intending to bomb Japan from the isle of Okinawa where the Americans had made two runways. One for them and one for us. Anyway, it got postponed night after night. We went for a few drinks into Lincoln, came back and the whole station was alight. We said, ‘What’s happened?’ He said, ‘You’re taking off at 4 o’clock,’ and this was about 12 o’clock [laughs] so we packed all our gear, pouring with rain, and flew off to Tobruk then to Cairo and then Karachi and then down to a place called Digri just outside of Calcutta and we were there for a few months practicing different types of bombing and that with 9 squadron and of course the Japs surrendered so we came back. We landed at St Mawgan and we were given a rail pass and four days to get back to Waddington and that was the end of our crew as a unit flying. I was posted to Woodbridge in Suffolk where I found myself as a warrant officer looking after, with twelve men, three hundred polish chaps who were waiting to go home and I’d only stayed there about six months and I was posted to RAF in Germany, Bad Eilsen and stayed out there for just over a year at Signals Headquarters but to me the experiences that I had before and the company with friends was just a holiday really because I was very active in running and football and cricket and that’s what I toured around with the RAF team and we won the RAF Inter-Services, well the British Forces Inter-Services football match at Cologne stadium. Again, as a highlight because it was the army that was going to win the final. They had every army person there, senior level, we beat them and the whole reception afterwards went down like a lead balloon.
[machine pause]
SLD: Right. Laurie Davis, otherwise Red, from there, from the 619 squadron. When I left the Germany in November ‘47 I’ve kept in touch with various groups through my son and until this year I’ve done six marches at the cenotaph on Armistice Day but this year there was insufficient members to march so they didn’t lay a wreath on behalf of Bomber Command but on the 31st of October I meet up with the squadron and adjoining that group was a bomb aimer, Joe Dutton, he’s treasurer and secretary of 619 and we meet there and have a meal and go over and have a look at the statue and lay a wreath and it always amazes me that people that look at it and say, ‘Why are people raising their hand above their eyes?’ And I said to several, ‘When you came back off a raid three or 4 o’clock in the morning and left your aircraft and waiting in the layby waiting to be picked up to go for debriefing and then you hear in the darkness another flight coming in and you just automatically put your hand up to look, see, ‘Oh I wonder who this has made it back again with us?’ And that’s it and that is the feeling that goes on that you were lucky and you respect the fact that you’ve made it back and I was talking to Joe Dutton only in October that, I think I said to him that if we weren’t going on a raid tonight we’d probably go into the village and have a drink and I said here it is seventy one years ago and we’re lucky to be able to do that. Just mentioning something people often said, ‘Didn’t you feel anything of bombing the targets?’ And I go back to fifteen and a half years of age in Portsmouth when they had the biggest raid, the 10th of January 1941, fire watching with my dad outside the house and experience this whistle and continuous whistle and getting closer and closer. Little did I know that it was a bomb and then everything went black, covered in dust and our house had disappeared and that for me thinks, not apportioning blame but they did start it and Plymouth and London and Portsmouth and Southampton but it’s one of those and I’m very grateful and fortunate to have gone through the friendship and association throughout with that crew. Yeah.
MJ: On behalf of the International Bomber Command I’d like to thank Laurie Davis at his home in Portsmouth for his recording. Otherwise known as Red. May he travel on well. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Sidney Lawrence Davis
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Mick Jeffery
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-02
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ADavisSL151202, PDavisSL1501
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:15:46 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Laurie Davis trained as a wireless operator and first went to RAF Silverstone where crews were formed. Because of his bright red hair, he was then known as ‘Red’. The crew worked on Wellingtons for a few weeks and then Stirlings at RAF Syerston. They then went on to Lancasters and to conversion and finished going on to 619 Squadron based at RAF Strubby in Lincolnshire. Their first operation was on Dresden, the next operation was to an oil refinery just outside Hamburg. At least three aircraft got caught in the searchlights, were hit by the barrage and exploded into a ball. The crew did twelve operations together. Towards the end of 1945 they flew out to India with 9 Squadron as part of the Tiger Force; with 617 Squadron (RAF Waddington) he took part in operations Dodge and Exodus. Laurie was posted to RAF Woodbridge in Suffolk as a warrant officer. After about six months he was posted in Germany. He then toured round with the RAF team for football and cricket, winning the British Forces Inter-Services football match at Cologne stadium. Since leaving Germany in November 1947 he has kept in touch with various groups and has done six marches at the Cenotaph on Armistice Day. He meets up with the squadron every October when they laid a wreath.
Contributor
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Sue Smith
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Oxfordshire
India
Germany
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dresden
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1945
1947-11
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
619 Squadron
9 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
crewing up
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
RAF Silverstone
RAF Strubby
RAF Syerston
RAF Waddington
RAF Woodbridge
searchlight
sport
Stirling
Tiger force
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/510/8412/PDunnG1501.2.BMP
505c4b2651ad5389c9a6458077b498ac
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/510/8412/ADunnG150405.1.mp3
d86cd9b1133884331255b8b76f63465f
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Dunn, George
George Charles Dunn
G C Dunn
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Dunn, GC
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. Two oral history interviews with George Dunn DFC (1922 1333537, 149315 Royal Air Force), a photograph a document and two log books. He flew operations as a pilot with 10, 76, and 608 Squadrons then transferred to 1409 Meteorological Flight.
There is a sub collection of his photographs from Egypt.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-03-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AP: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre, the interviewer is Andrew Panton, the interviewee is George Dunn, Mr Dunn was a RAF Pilot who flew various types of aircraft during the Second World War, the interview is taking place at Princess Marina House in Rustington West Sussex, on the 5th April 2015.
GD: My name is George Dunn, I was seventeen years of age when the war broke out and I was born at Whitstable on the North Kent coast, so I saw quite a lot of the Battle of Britain and being facing the Thames Estuary all the hoards of German bombers that were coming in to bomb London, when the London Blitz started, at, I joined the local defence volunteers, and then that became the Home Guard, and when I reached the age of eighteen I volunteered for aircrew. I was interviewed up at Chatham and I originally registered for wireless operator/air gunner, but they said to me would I consider pilot training, which I agreed, and after a written exam and a selection board, I was advised that I could take up pilot training. First aircraft I flew was a Tiger Moth because I did all my training in Canada, the first place was at Saskatchewan, a little place called Caron west of Moose Jaw and from there I went on to A V Roe Anson’s at a place called Weyburn again in Saskatchewan. When I came back to the UK in September 1942 I was then posted to Chipping Norton which was a satellite of Little Risington on airspeed Oxford’s this was to acclimatise us to the flying conditions in this country, we had been used to flying with full town lights and city lights, but this was of course flying in blackout conditions. From there I was posted to Lossiemouth which was number 20 OTU, and formed my crew, and we did my OTU on Wellington’s.
AP: So can you say a little bit about the Wellington Bomber, how you found it to fly and what you did [inaudible word]
GD: Well the Wellington Bomber I found was a nice aircraft it wasn’t difficult to fly and we had quite an easy course on it.
AP: What about op’s with the Wellington? Can you remember any?
GD: No I didn’t do any operations on Wellington’s
AP: So from the Wellington, where did you go next?
GD: From Wellington’s I was sent to Heavy Conversion Unit which was at Rufforth just outside York, on Halifax aircraft.
AP: And was that your first op aircraft?
GD: No, surprisingly enough, normally if you went to a Heavy Conversion Unit, you had, you flew a certain number of hours and then you were seconded to a squadron where you had to do two operations with an experienced crew, but in my case I was sent to number 10 squadron at Melbourne to do my two second dickey trips as they were called and believe it or not I had not set foot in a Halifax aircraft until that first raid. First raid was Essen, which was rather a heavy place to go to, to start with but we got through that alright and the following night I did my second, second dickey trip to Kiel, so I got two fairly good targets under my belt to start with.
AP: And could you talk a bit about the experiences you had on those trips, I mean did you engage fighters, flak, ack ack searchlights?
GD: What when I was on my own crew?
AP: yes.
GD: Yes, our first trip as a crew was to Dortmund, and right throughout our tour we were fairly lucky we were never attacked by a fighter but we were coned at one stage.
AP: So can you talk about what that means?
GD: Yes, coning is when you initially get trapped by a blue searchlight, a radar searchlight and once that’s on to you the white searchlights form a cone so you could be, you might call it sitting like a fairy on a Christmas Tree, and the only suitable manoeuvre to get out of a coning, is by a corkscrew method, if you can do that then you’re ok, but on this occasion we managed to get away from the cone.
AP: And
GD: Yes if you are coned the thing is, is to keep your eyes on your instruments, don’t look outside because you will get blinded by the light. On the 17th, 18th August 1943 I was based at Holme on Spalding Moor south east of York and on this particular afternoon the first thing we noticed when we got to the briefing room were there were extra service police on the door which we thought was rather unusual, and when we got into the briefing room and they drew the curtains across we saw this red ribbon going all the way up to Denmark up the North sea, across Denmark, missing the North German coast because of the heavy flak and then we saw this tiny little place on the Baltic coast, and we thought what, what’s going on there, what’s this all about, never heard of it. When we were briefed we were only told that it was a secret research station connected with radar, at no time were we given any indication of the real work that was going on there. The chilling remark that was made at the end of the briefing was that the target was so important that it should be destroyed that night, otherwise we were told quite firmly that we would go back the following night, the night after that until it was destroyed, and you can imagine the feeling we had knowing what reception we would get if we had to go back on the night after. After the briefing of course we went back to our usual pre-op dinner or meal, bacon and eggs usually, and eventually to the parachute room picked our parachutes up, and into the crew room, dispose of all our wallets and anything that might identify us, and took off, reached our climbing height, and proceeded through the Yorkshire coast up towards Denmark. Included in the main force was a low number of Mosquito’s which were used as a spoof raid on Berlin, this was to make sure that the German authorities were thinking that the main force was going to Berlin, and of course as we got nearer the main force veered off to Peenemunde, and the Mosquito’s carried on to Berlin. This caused quite a lot of consternation amongst the German aircrew controllers because they weren’t sure where the main force were, and when the German night fighters were alerted they had no idea what was going on, the German ground controllers were in a bit of a state and one German pilot realising what was going on proceeded to Peenemunde without being told, so of course by the time the German fighters had got there the raid was virtually half over. We were fortunate we did our run in from the Island of Roden which was about a five minute run in from the North, and we went in on the first wave, the target was well marked we went in at about seven thousand feet it was a brilliant moonlight night and my bomb aimer got quite excited because this was the first time that he had actually been able to identify the target because normally we were bombing from eighteen or nineteen thousand feet, so this was quite an occasion, and I can remember telling him don’t get too excited just concentrate on what you are doing. So we moved in no trouble at all the flak was very very light we were able to, despite the pathfinder markers we were able to identify our aiming point visually, dropped our bombs and came out without any problem. We were very lucky that we were in the first wave because we were able to bomb and get away from the target before the fighters arrived, in the original plan, four group which I was a member of, was scheduled to go in on the last wave, but because they were frightened of smoke from the ground generators obscuring our aiming point we were reverted to the first wave which was very fortunate but not so fortunate for those who were transferred back from the first wave to the last. There were three aiming points on Peenemunde itself and our aiming point was the living quarters of the scientists and the technicians, and one wag on our squadron said there would be a prize given to the first aircraft back with a scientists spectacles hanging from its undercarriage. Once you begin your final run in you are really under the control of the bomb aimer because he, he’s the one that can only see the actual line of path to the target so he will be giving you instructions, such as, right, left left, right right, steady, until you actually came to the point where he’d say bombs gone. We were only told that it was a, as I said before, a secret RADAR station, and it was some time afterwards before that it was revealed that it was for rocket research. So, of course the best thing was that the day after, it was only after a Spitfire reconnaissance which evaluated the amount of damage that we knew with some relief that we were not going to have to go back that night. The aftermath of course was what was the overall result and it was generally recognised that the rocket programme was put back by at least two months, and in his book Crusade to Europe, General Eisenhower said that the second front would have been seriously compromised had the Peenemunde raid not taken place when it did. It is possible that the raid on Peenemunde could have taken place a lot earlier, because in May 1940 a note was pushed through the door of the British Naval attaché in Oslo, from the writer claiming to have very important information connected with German activities, and if the intelligence people were interested would they put a coded letter or word in the broadcasts that were made usually to the resistance, this was done and another letter was pushed through the door and the sort of information the writer indicated that they had, was to the intelligence people so ludicrous that they thought it must be a hoax, and it was ignored, and it was many many, well this was 1940, it was some years later when snippets of information came through and two German Generals who were in a , they were prisoners of war, were in a bugged room and amongst the things that they discussed was that they couldn’t understand why Peenemunde had never been bombed, this of course brought it to the notice of the authorities and from then on every endeavour was made to secure other bits and pieces of information, to ascertain whether this was true. The final answer to the problem I think was when a WRAF intelligence officer very keenly spotted a launching ramp on one of the reconnaissance photographs, and this really was the, was the result of good reconnaissance, and it really gave the answer that there really was something going on at Peenemunde, and from then on of course a committee was formed Mr Churchill appointed Duncan Sands to chair this committee and eventually after a few meetings it was then that they decided that this would, Peenemunde would have to be bombed. Of course one of the things was how were they going to do it, Air Vice Marshal Cochrane of five group who’s group had been used to some time and distance bombing wanted to go in with about, I think about 150 Lancaster’s, it was also discussed that a small force of Mosquito’s would go in, but Sir Arthur Harris the chief of Bomber Command, he felt that if a raid was going to take place it would have to be successful one hundred percent at the first go, and he made the decision that it was going to be a maximum effort, so all groups of the Bomber Command were going to take part. Consequently almost six hundred aircraft were sent, probably the decision was right because the place was destroyed, virtually destroyed on the first raid. Four days after the raid on Peenemunde, the place was visited by Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and Albert Speer the armaments manager and they, after a survey Hitler himself decided that the place would not continue to operate, at least on the scale that it had done, and it was then that the whole project was moved to various places particularly the Harz Mountains. Of course the success of the raid was not achieved without some loss and unfortunately the total aircraft loss was forty and two hundred and twenty aircrew were killed, mostly occurred in the last two waves of the, of the raid so as I said before we were very very lucky that we had been moved from the last wave to the first wave, because we were virtually in and out without any problem. Of course the success in some ways of flying on operations is the team work, the crew have got to work together and I was very fortunate I had a very good crew, we originally formed up at OTU at Lossiemouth, it was a question of one person getting to know another. I well remember my bomb aimer coming up to me and saying “have you crewed up yet?” and I said “no” “how about crewing up with me” “yeah sure do you know any navigators?” “Yes I know a navigator” and that’s how it went on, so we finished up with five, and later on we acquired a Mid-upper gunner and a Flight Engineer who was actually allocated to us. We were lucky in this respect because my Flight Engineer’s Wife and Mother ran a pub just outside Horsforth in Leeds so on our nights off all seven of us used to pile into a Morris Eight, and go off to a night out and as you can imagine the customers made a great fuss of us, and we were never short of free drinks. [laughter] I can well remember the only time when my navigator did suffer from, I don’t know what it was, but he suddenly came up on the intercom and said “ Skipper were about ten miles off course” and my reply was “well look we can’t be, I’ve been steering this course that you gave me without any deviation, so get your finger out and get us back on course, otherwise I’ll get the bomb aimer to take over the navigation” this really put the wind up him and he, he got us back on course, don’t ask me why but whether he’d made a mistake with his GEE box fixing it turned out ok at the end. Of course most of our navigation was dead reckoning but the saviour that we had, but it was only I think to about five degrees east that the GEE box from where we could get a fix on our position enabled us to keep to a reasonable course. Of course whilst the aircrew got most of the glory, it was the auxiliary staff that really supported us people like the parachute packers, the ground crew, as far as we were concerned we had an excellent ground crew on our aircraft, everything was tickety boo, the windscreen was all polished they went completely out of their way to make sure that the aircraft we were flying was in one hundred percent condition, and the only way we could reward them was taking them down to the pub on the occasional evening and buying them a few beers, it was our way of saying thank you to them. I well remember that on our last night our very last raid which was a castle, outside the control tower there was a whole host of personnel waving to us a lot of air cadets and when we got to the runway for our final take off the crowd round the caravan way, the crowd outside the caravan the controller which gave you a green light when it was ready for you to take off, and then finally opening the throttles for what you knew was going to be your final operation, and wondering how it was going to go, but of course at that time you were really concentrating on getting the aircraft safely off the ground. I well remember, I don’t know which raid it was but probably my fault we had not secured the front escape hatch properly, and on take off it blew open, my oxygen mask, tube rather was ripped off and I had to borrow the mid-upper gunners oxygen tube, he had rather an uncomfortable flight trying to breathe his oxygen having given up his tube to me, but we did get over it, and we did manage to close the escape hatch with some difficulty, I must take full responsibility for that error. Yes on that final flight when you got the green light knowing that this was going to be your final operation, you had that feeling of great support from those people that were standing there, they knew that it was your final op, and they were willing you to go on and come back safely and that was, that was really comforting, but of course you were more or less concentrating on the take off at that time because that was a very dangerous time for a fully laden, fully fuelled, fully bombed aircraft, until what you reach was known as safety speed, where it was, you were then able to climb to your normal altitude.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with George Dunn
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Panton
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-04-05
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ADunnG150405, PDunnG1501
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Format
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00:25:12 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
George was born at Whitstable and was 17 when war was declared. He joined the local Defence Volunteers which became the Home Guard. When he reached 18 he volunteered for air crew. He was interviewed at Chatham and sat an exam and selection board to train as a pilot. All of his training was in Canada and his first aircraft was a Tiger Moth. When he returned to England, he was posted to RAF Chipping Norton on Oxfords flying in black-out conditions. From there he was posted to RAF Lossiemouth, operational training unit on Wellingtons. He was then sent to a Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Rufforth on Halifaxes. George was posted to 10 Squadron at RAF Melbourne. He flew operations to Essen, Kiel and Dortmund. On 17/18 August 1943, while based at RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor, he took part on the bombing operation to Peenemünde rocket research station.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Canada
Germany
England--Chatham (Kent)
England--Kent
England--Oxfordshire
England--Yorkshire
Scotland--Moray
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Essen
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Peenemünde
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-08-17
1943-08-18
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
10 Squadron
20 OTU
aircrew
bombing
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
civil defence
crewing up
Gee
ground crew
ground personnel
Halifax
Heavy Conversion Unit
Home Guard
military ethos
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
RAF Chipping Norton
RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Melbourne
RAF Rufforth
searchlight
Tiger Moth
training
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/535/8770/AWarrenH160325.2.mp3
c0949f59001de6d690534559594a5b34
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Warren, Harold James
H J Warren
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Warren, HJ
Description
An account of the resource
10 items. Two oral history interviews with Harold James Warren (1921 - 2017, 619608 Royal Air Force) service material, a note book, diary and photographs. He Joined the RAF in 1938, and after training as ground crew but remustered and after training in Canada, became a flight engineer.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Harold Warren and catalogued by Peter Adams.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-22
2015-10-30
2016-07-12
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: So, my name is Chris Brockbank. Today is the 25th of March 2016 and I’m xxxxx with Harold Warren who was an RAF rigger in the war and before and he’s going to talk to us about his experiences of life and particularly in the RAF. So, Harold what’s the first thing you remember about life.
HW: Yes. I have to jog my memory quite a bit I’m afraid. [laughs] Well, my father was a blacksmith and a farmer as well as my grandfather. They had to go in to farming because they were full time blacksmiths and it affected their [shifts?] so they had to pack it up. But they kept it on part time for themself. [To work on.] And they bought a farm and they kept the blacksmiths going for their own use and I remember that well because when I come home from school had to blow the, keep the fire going in the blacksmiths shop. [Pumping the old fire all day.] Yeah. Yes, they wanted me to take over the farm when I left school but I didn’t want to have any of that. So I thought I’d join the air force and I did as soon as soon as I left school. Yeah. That’s right. That’s it. And er let me see. I have to think a bit.
CB: So where was it you were living then?
HW: Eh?
CB: Where did your parents live?
HW: My parents lived at, they lived at [pause] near [?] Yeah. Near Exeter [?] and all that sort of thing
CB: Right.
HW: So as soon as I was old enough I joined the air force. I was quite young then.
CB: So you joined straight from school.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Where did you go to join the RAF?
HW: Debden, I think.
CB: Right
HW: I think it was.
CB: And what happened there?
HW: That’s where I done my basic training. [Foot slogging] and all that sort of thing. And then I went to technical school in the air force and I was, I forget where I was now. Mildenhall I think. Spent quite some time there.
CB: So what did you learn there?
HW: Eh?
CB: What did you learn at Mildenhall?
HW: I was on engines and airframes.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And which year are we talking about now?
HW: Pardon?
CB: Which year are we talking about?
HW: Well, it was just before the war started because I remember they shortened the course so that, you know, you could go on to active service sort of thing. ‘Cause the first day of the war I was in France.
CB: Oh were you?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Right.
HW: 218 squadron. Fairey Battles we had. Which was a waste of time.
CB: Because -
HW: No nothing at all. No armaments of any good. The Germans could do what they liked with us. So anyway we carried on doing that sort of thing and then we got evacuated via Dunkirk.
CB: Did you have to queue to get on to a boat at Dunkirk or did you get straight on to a boat?
HW: Eh?
CB: When you came out from Dunkirk -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did you have to queue to get on or did you get straight onto a boat.
HW: Well I queued. A lot of people trying to get on boats and everything. Yeah. We eventually made it and we landed, where did we land? Dover I think. And then I was moved to Bicester doing maintenance there on aircraft. And er let me see -
CB: So Bicester was an Operation Conversion Unit at that time.
HW: Eh?
CB: Bicester.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Was an Operation Conversion Unit.
HW: An OTU.
CB: At that time.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Number 13.
HW: 13 OTU.
CB: That’s it. Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So what were you doing there?
HW: Same thing.
CB: Which aircraft?
HW: Engine airframes.
CB: Ok.
HW: Yeah.
CB: On what aeroplane?
HW: Eh?
CB: What was the aeroplane?
HW: Bristol Blenheim’s then. Still had Fairey Battles as well of course. They sent various aircraft into us because we were classed as a maintenance unit and we were supposed to be able to sort everything out. All sorts of aircraft which we had to do then. That was alright. Quite interesting.
CB: What sort of things did you have to sort out? Was it mechanical or battle damage or what was it?
HW: Both. Both, yeah. Both. Yeah.
CB: And er did you stay? How long did you stay at Bicester?
HW: Quite some time I think.
CB: And then up the road -
HW: Eh?
CB: Up the road is Hinton in the Hedges.
HW: Yeah.
CB: You were there as well so how did you divide the time?
HW: I don’t know. We had to [set it out I think?]. Some of the time was at Bicester and some at Hinton and Hinton carried on as an OTU and I forget where I went then.
CB: So what was the accommodation like at Bicester?
HW: Very good, Bicester. Yeah. It was a peacetime place you see.
CB: Right.
HW: It was very, well very good for, what do you expect. You don’t expect [Hilton?] but it was alright. Alright.
CB: So there were barrack blocks.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. They’re still there now.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So what was your working day? What would you do on a working day?
HW: Oh 8 o’clock start usually.
CB: Ahum.
HW: It depends on what work came in to be done. If you had to put extra time in you had to put extra time in. And that was it. You didn’t, you didn’t get much free time. There was always a hell of a lot to do.
CB: Was there? Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And most of the work you were doing was on the air frames or on the engines. Which?
HW: Oh both.
CB: Right.
HW: Both.
CB: So when you had to deal with an engine what was the main task on an engine.
HW: Well it depends on what was wrong with the engine. Sometimes it, it warranted a complete engine change. Sometimes it didn’t. Sometimes you could do it with the engine still in the aircraft and you could still do it. Such as running repair like a car. Ignition trouble or something like that.
CB: Right.
HW: Carburettor or something like that. Yeah, that was that.
CB: So if you had to take the engine out -
HW: Yeah.
CB: What happened then?
HW: Well we had a replacement engine if possible. Sometimes you couldn’t. Sometimes there was one ready to put straight back in but that would depend on supply and wherever they come from. Sometimes they come from the maker, sometimes they come from a maintenance unit which was over all the engines to start with but depends on supplies really.
CB: And that’s the engine. What about the airframe. What sorts of things did you have to do with airframes?
HW: Well there again sometime it was enemy action damaged flying controls and that sort of thing. You could do that alright when it was all metal fabric. Yeah.
CB: So the aircraft had a basic metal structure covered -
HW: Yeah.
CB: With fabric.
HW: Yeah.
CB: When you put on new fabric what did you have to do to it?
HW: The fabric replacement. We never did fabric work. There was a special ganger does fabric work and there was a special process to do to carry on fabric work so we never did much of that. Well I didn’t. But er it was a, it was an all metal thing. That’s where we came in you see. There was hardly any fabric attached to that. The only fabric attached to that was the control surfaces. The ailerons and the rudder and that sort of thing. Sometimes you could just get a complete unit like an aileron or something and change that completely if you could get hold of the thing. That was usually the trouble. Hadn’t got it. Wasn’t about. So made do as best we could with it.
CB: And what was the covering on the fuselage and the wings?
HW: Ah. Yeah. Some. Well depends on the aircraft. Some were metal covers which is, they were mainly metal come as the aircraft become modern and that sort of thing and we used to get a lot of American aircraft you see, we were equipped with that sort of thing and they were metal covers and you had to patch them if it were broken and you know, could have been a crash damage or gunfire damage. Whatever. You had to do your best you could with it and that was it. Get them in the air again quick as possible.
CB: And when you put on a metal patch.
HW: Yeah.
CB: How did you secure that?
HW: Eh?
CB: How did you secure the patch?
HW: Metal patch.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. They were riveted on. Yeah. They were riveted on. Yeah, you had a riveting gun to put them on and er yeah. That was alright. That was alright.
CB: What about Perspex?
HW: Eh?
CB: How did you deal with the Perspex?
HW: Perspex, yeah. There again Perspex was a difficult job because you had to replace the whole thing. The windscreen and that sort of thing and the gun turrets and that sort of thing. You had to replace the whole thing. There again if you could get it. It was very often you couldn’t. Short supply.
CB: Ahum.
HW: So there we are. Nothing you could do with that.
CB: What were the American, what were the American aeroplanes that were being fixed?
HW: Oh the first of all we had, I forget what we had first. We had um what the hell was it?
CB: They were bombers were they?
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Four engine bombers.
CB: Oh, the American ones were four engine bombers -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Were they?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yes.
HW: Yeah. Our four engine ones didn’t come along until after. Well made the same time as the American four engine ones. Yeah.
CB: So how many hangars were set aside for repair? ‘Cause there were four hangars at Bicester.
HW: Bicester had quite a few hangars Yeah. Yeah. It depended what sort of jobs was needed. They got lifting equipment and that sort of thing. You had to have them to lift the engines in and out and all depended what the demand was to do.
CB: So you had busy times and on your time off what did you do?
HW: You never had no time off, poor devil. No. You’d always find something to do.
CB: So where did you meet your wife?
HW: Oh, Hinton I suppose. Or Bicester. Brackley. Somewhere like that.
CB: Was she in the RAF at the time?
HW: No. I was. She wasn’t.
CB: No.
HW: No. She worked in the local hospital. Yeah.
CB: In Banbury or in Bicester?
HW: Brackley.
CB: Oh in Brackley.
HW: Yeah. It was only a small hospital.
CB: Right. What did she do there?
HW: I forget now what she did. She was, um, I think she was a nurse. General sort of nurse. Yeah.
CB: So, how did you manage to see her regularly? Did you cycle over or what did you do?
HW: Well you couldn’t see that regular. There were jobs always come first. Anything else had to wait. Whatever. Yeah.
CB: And how long after you met her did you marry her?
HW: I don’t, not long, I don’t think. Not long, I don’t think.
CB: So we talked about Bicester.
HW: Yeah.
CB: At Hinton, you weren’t, were you repairing aircraft there or was that just the OCU?
HW: Still the same because Hinton came under Bicester. Bicester was a bigger place and it was adapted to that sort of thing. Yeah. Bicester was quite a big place then. It had no runways of course. Level grass which was no good for heavy bombers.
CB: Right.
HW: They used to get stuck and I don’t know what. Caused more damage.
CB: Well they’d sink in.
HW: Eh?
CB: They sank in to the earth -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Would they?
HW: Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause when they were loaded they were heavy and that was it. Yeah.
CB: So, did they fly them to Hinton instead?
HW: Eh?
CB: Did they send them to Hinton instead?
HW: Well they started building runways at Hinton. I don’t think Bicester never had runways always had Bicester on grass just the same. It was just an OTU you see. They were never loaded, the aircraft. Not heavy enough to sink in so they didn’t use it for that.
CB: Now before you went to Bicester.
HW: Yeah.
CB: You were at St Athan.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What happened there?
HW: Well that was a training school. A technical school. Yeah.
CB: And what did you study particularly?
HW: Engines there. I think it was. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So after Bicester and Hinton you went somewhere completely different.
HW: Yeah. 218 squadron then.
CB: Ahum.
HW: At Boscombe Down.
CB: Oh, right.
HW: And we went to France then, of course.
CB: That’s before the war er the early part of the war.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So that was, that was before Bicester.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Right. So you left Bicester.
HW: Left Bicester.
CB: And you went to Canada.
HW: No. That was later than that.
CB: Oh, was it?
HW: Yeah.
CB: So after Bicester where did you go?
HW: Oh various places I think. I can’t remember all of them. We had to have a course on these American engines you see.
CB: Oh right.
HW: I don’t know where we had to go for them. Not America [laughs] worse luck, at the time.
CB: Yeah.
HW: I didn’t go to Canada till after that. A long time after. After I came back from the war well, not quite but nearly. Went to Canada on the Queen Mary.
CB: Did you? Right.
HW: From Scotland.
CB: Right.
HW: Greenock. And we docked in New York ‘cause they hadn’t got anywhere big enough to dock it in Canada so we docked in New York and we had to go from New York up to Saskatchewan, Canada by train. Yeah. That was alright. Very good place Canada. Nice people. Would do anything for you. They were very good. I nearly went back to Canada after the war.
CB: Did you?
HW: Yeah. Yeah. But circumstances didn’t allow it so that was that.
CB: So when you were in Canada, where did they send you in Canada?
HW: Yeah.
CB: You’ve got Saskatchewan and then what?
HW: Moose Jaw.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Moose Jaw and I forget where the other one was.
CB: These, these were the Service Flying Training Schools.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So the ones I’ve got a note of here are Moose Jaw, La Prairie -
HW: Eh?
CB: La Prairie. Did you go there?
HW: Yeah.
CB: And Bagotville.
HW: Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. That brings back a memory now. Yeah.
CB: So when you were there what were you doing?
HW: Same work I was doing.
CB: What aircraft?
HW: Same work.
CB: What aircraft were you on?
HW: Um training aircraft. They were American aircraft. Some were single engine some were double engine, twin engine. I forget what sort they were now. They were American built ones I know that.
CB: Including the Harvard.
HW: Yeah. Harvard. Yeah. Harvard. Oh yeah. Harvard. Yeah. A lot of Harvards sent over to this country.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So that’s single and then the PT17 was it? What about twin engine? What planes were they?
HW: Um I forget now what they were.
CB: Ok.
HW: I can’t remember. Yeah. I can’t remember.
CB: So did they have Ansons also out there?
HW: Eh?
CB: Did they have Avro Ansons where you were operating?
HW: I think there was a few but not many. They were used for training you see. I mean they were used for training in this country at the start soon as the war, well before the war, Ansons. They were at Bicester at one time. Ansons. Yeah. And they were at Hinton as well.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. So you were out in Canada -
HW: Eh?
CB: You were out in Canada. What were the conditions like?
HW: Very good.
CB: So take us through a day.
HW: Oh well.
CB: In Canada.
HW: Usual day.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Usual day. Yeah.
CB: What was the food like, compared with being in Britain?
HW: Very good. Very good. In fact, I even sent some food home Yeah. There was plenty of food there and I got in touch with a farming family in Canada and it so happened that their son was in the air force and he was at Croughton.
CB: At Croughton.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. But he had an accident in the road, on the road in Canada, er in Croughton and he was invalided home. I met him and you know you got together and they used to take us out for weekends and that sort of thing. They were very good, the Canadian people. Yeah, and I tried to get back. I’d have liked to got back there to a job ‘cause I’d got two or three jobs lined up on the assumption that I could do it. In those days I couldn’t do it. I could do it that was nothing to do with it. It all depended on, you know, family and that sort of thing. My wife’s father was [head of the house] so that knocked that on the head. Yeah. Yes, I would have like to have went to Canada.
CB: What sort of jobs would you have done in Canada?
HW: Pardon?
CB: What sort of jobs would you have done in Canada?
HW: Oh yeah I’d have gone on to agricultural machinery. That sort of thing. Like they had, some of the farmers had an aircraft for getting about it was that big. Yeah. So, I was going to look after that one I think. It was only a twin engine. Two seater and used it for getting from one part of the farm to another. You wouldn’t think it possible would you. Aircraft to get somewhere on the farm [laughs], ‘Oh I’ll catch an aircraft.’ Yeah. And there were combines going around the fields. Well they weren’t fields they were just as far as you could see. Big areas growing grain and about half a dozen combines following one after the other so quite a job. It didn’t come to nothing but I’d have liked that but it didn’t come to anything so that was it.
CB: So when you came back to the UK -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Where did you go after returning from Canada?
HW: Back to Bicester again I think.
CB: And were they always training units that you went to?
HW: Eh?
CB: Were they always training units -
HW: Yeah.
CB: That you went to or
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did you go to any –
HW: Oh I went to, well of course when I came back, I mean the war was finished more or less so they didn’t need any heavy bombers then. I went back to, to Lancasters for a little while and American heavy bombers. Yeah.
CB: Where were those? Where were those? Where?
HW: East coast somewhere. Forget where it was now. Mildenhall. Might have been Mildenhall. [?]
CB: Did you deal with Stirlings as well?
HW: Pardon?
CB: Were there Stirlings as well as Lancasters?
HW: Lancasters.
CB: Stirlings?
HW: Went on to Sunderlands for a while.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Where was that?
HW: We were based in Scotland and we used to patrol the North Atlantic looking for submarines.
CB: Right.
HW: We used to patrol from Newfoundland to Scotland. And a Sunderland would stay in the air for twelve, thirteen, fourteen hours you see so it could do that journey alright. No problem. Yeah. I remember we, because we couldn’t take any prisoners off the U-boats we had to, to call up the navy to. I remember calling up, we sent one, well we forced it to the surface the U-boat and [?] on board and we had a good look around and there was a nice big box of onions. [laughs] Yeah. Germans and German U- boats used to look after, I always wanted to go on U-boats so we collared them.
CB: So how did you get those?
HW: Eh?
CB: How did they get hold of them?
HW: oh no, well they got them when they, rations I suppose.
CB: No. No, what I meant was, the U-boat was forced to the surface.
HW: Yeah.
CB: How did the aeroplane get, the Sunderland, how did it get hold of the onions?
HW: Oh they got them easy enough. We could land alongside and we were the first ones on board, the aircrew, we were the first ones board so we got the first pick. Yeah. Then we had to call up the navy ‘cause we couldn’t take any more people on, on the Sunderland. There wasn’t room.
CB: How long did it take for the navy to come?
HW: Not long. They were, they’d been warned beforehand that, you know, we were on the track of a submarine so we told them where we were, roughly and we read the report to the navy that there’s, we’d forced one up to the surface and then they come along and took the prisoners. Took them. That was it.
CB: You said we -
HW: Ahum.
CB: So, you mean the crew or were you there?
HW: Yeah
CB: Did you get on that flight?
HW: Yeah. Oh yeah.
CB: Why were you on that flight?
HW: It was my job.
CB: Right.
HW: Flight engineer.
CB: Right, on the, so where did you become a flight engineer?
HW: Scotland.
CB: In Scotland.
HW: Greenock.
CB: When you joined the Sunderlands.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So how did that happen? ‘Cause you were previously servicing aircraft on the ground.
HW: Yeah.
CB: How did you then become a flight engineer?
HW: Well there was very little difference in the job. You’re doing the same job.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yet you were flying. Yeah.
CB: How did you do it? Did they ask for volunteers?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Or did they say you must do it?
HW: Sometimes they did. They couldn’t get enough volunteers so they said, ‘You, you and you.’ [laughs] As usual.
CB: Yeah. So a forced volunteer.
HW: Eh?
CB: A compulsory volunteer.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t mind that.
CB: So what did that do for you? So you were converted on to the Sunderland were you?
HW: Yeah.
CB: At Greenock.
HW: Ahum.
CB: Or somewhere else?
HW: Used to go from Greenock, across the north of England and across to North America. Turned around and come back again.
CB: Right.
HW: That was that. All the time we were searching for submarines. Keeping a look out for submarines all the time and the depth charges there if we could and get them one sided.
CB: So as a flight engineer on a Sunderland what were you doing most of the time?
HW: Making sure the engine kept going. Had to check them ‘cause I mean they were they’d done a lot of hours a day you see. That was more than the manufacturers recommended so you had to be very careful with them, look after them, nurse them if you could. Which you couldn’t.
CB: How many times did you have situations where the engine stopped?
HW: Eh?
CB: How many times did the engines stop?
HW: Not very often. Not very often. They were well maintained while they were in operation and while they were on base and they were given good care. I don’t think I ever had one stop.
CB: Now the Sunderland is a big aeroplane. So -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Where was your station -
HW: Yeah.
CB: On the Sunderland?
HW: Oh I had to go from one and keep an eye on the airframe instruments and that sort of thing. The instruments would tell you a lot of stories then of what this one’s doing, that one’s doing, this is not working and that sort of thing. You could check on the fuel and oil and that sort of thing.
CB: How many fuel tanks were there?
HW: I forget now.
CB: But your job was to do what with the fuel?
HW: Just make sure we got, we were refuelled every time we got room for some. I forget how many tanks there were. Quite a lot.
CB: Did you transfer, was it your job to transfer fuel?
HW: No. It wasn’t -
CB: From one tank -
HW: My job, no -
CB: To another?
HW: No.
CB: Or did they not get transferred?
HW: That was to do with the ones who refuelled them. The tankers
CB: But in the air -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did you need to change fuel supply from one tank to another?
HW: Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah, sometimes. Not very often. They were, they used to be pretty even consumption so you never had a lot of trouble with that. We had to do a lot of manoeuvring about. That used more fuel so had to be careful. Yeah.
CB: So on take-off and landing what would your job be?
HW: Well it had floats. Didn’t have to worry about the undercarriage or anything like that. So that was that. That was to do with the flying crew. The pilot. Yeah.
CB: Were there one or two pilots on?
HW: Two pilots.
CB: Right.
HW: First and second pilot but sometimes they’d do without the second pilot and that was where the flight engineer come in. Yeah.
CB: And in that circumstance what happened?
HW: Eh?
CB: So when, when there was no second pilot what did the flight engineer do?
HW: Well he had to, well keep an eye on the first pilot and make sure he was doing everything he was supposed to do. And he did, else he wouldn’t be there.
CB: And who controlled the throttles on take-off?
HW: Throttles? Pilot. First pilot. Yeah. And the flaps and everything like that.
CB: Because on the Lancasters and Halifaxes -
HW: Yeah.
CB: The flight engineer operated the throttles. That’s why I asked the question. On take-off.
HW: The pilot used to do the throttle just the same.
CB: Right.
HW: On any four engine job.
CB: So what was the point that made the decision about whether there were two pilots or just one?
HW: I don’t know.
CB: Was it the length of the flight?
HW: Something do with that I should think. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: ‘Cause thirteen hours is a long time for a single pilot.
HW: Certainly is.
CB: But did they do that?
HW: Yes.
CB: They did. But how many crew were there on a Sunderland?
HW: Well there used to be first pilot, sometimes second pilot, flight engineer, navigator and the bomb, gun turrets were manned, front, mid turret and the front turret they were manned all the time.
CB: And the rear turret.
HW: Yeah. Rear turret, mid turret and then the front turret. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And there was a signaller and a bomb aimer.
HW: Radio operator.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Bomb aimer.
CB: Any more?
HW: No. That was about it I think. As far as I can remember.
CB: Right. So how long were you based with that squadron? What was the squadron? What squadron was the Sunderland squadron?
HW: [?] I think.
CB: Right.
HW: I’m not sure about that.
CB: And how long did you stay with them?
HW: Not all that long. Not all that long. That was about it then.
CB: Was that, had the war finished when you left?
HW: Just about. Just about. Yeah.
CB: So did you, when you left the Sunderlands -
HW: Yeah.
CB: What did you do?
HW: Went back to Bicester again.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And what were you doing then?
HW: Well there weren’t so much to do then.
CB: No.
HW: Not so much aircraft damaged. Not by enemy action. Generally run down.
CB: What, when you became a flight engineer what happened to your rank?
HW: You what?-
CB: What happened to your rank when you became a flight engineer?
HW: I don’t know. Stayed the same I suppose. Got no use for us then anyway then when we’d finished.
CB: No. No. What I meant was that during the previous postings -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Your rank was LAC.
HW: Leading Aircraft that was.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. That’s right.
CB: So as soon as you -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did you keep that rank all the time?
HW: Oh Yeah.
CB: What happened when you went on to Sunderlands?
HW: Still a leading Aircraft man.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah. But um, yeah, that’s right. Yeah.
CB: Was it an official or an unofficial arrangement because did you get a, a brevvy?
HW: Yeah.
CB: To show that you were a -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Flight engineer or not?
HW: Yeah. Yeah. You got the cross on your sleeve.
CB: Yeah.
HW: To indicate a leading aircraft man.
CB: Yeah.
HW: [Coughing]
CB: Hang on. I’m going to stop for a minute.
[pause]
HW: You were made up to a sergeant.
CB: Yeah.
HW: When you were flying.
CB: Right.
HW: To prevent, so as you get better treatment supposedly if you were taken prisoner.
CB: Yeah.
HW: That didn’t always work.
CB: Which didn’t work? Getting promotion or -
HW: Eh?
CB: Yeah. But you did get promoted when you became -
HW: Yeah.
CB: When you went on to Sunderlands.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. You automatically made up to sergeant -
CB: Right.
HW: When you were [flying.]
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So as soon as you stopped flying -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did you remain a sergeant?
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And so you came back as a sergeant to Bicester.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What were you doing? Because you were a sergeant now.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What were you doing in your role at Bicester?
HW: More, more sort of keeping a check on what people were doing and that sort of thing. Testing and that sort of thing. Yeah.
CB: So now from an accommodation point of view you moved to the sergeant’s mess.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: What was that like?
HW: That was, that was alright. I had a house. I was living at Hinton then.
CB: Ah Hinton, right. And where was your wife at this time.
HW: She was at Hinton.
CB: But she wasn’t on the airfield.
HW: No. She was doing her job in the hospital just the same.
CB: What did she do? Live with her parents or did she live in rented accommodation?
HW: Living with her parents all the time.
CB: Where were they?
HW: Hinton.
CB: Oh they were in Hinton.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Right.
HW: And I lived with them.
CB: Right. Rather than in the officer’s er the sergeant’s mess.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. I used to cycle from Hinton to Bicester every day.
CB: Right.
HW: Which wasn’t far really.
CB: No.
HW: No.
CB: So then how, what happened after that?
HW: Then the old demob come along I suppose.
CB: From Bicester.
HW: Aye.
CB: Were you demobbed from Bicester or did you have to go somewhere else?
HW: Oh yeah. You went to er not far from here. Forget where it was now. Wasn’t far from here. I know that.
CB: When you were demobbed what they do? Did they give you clothes or what did they do?
HW: Oh yeah. You had to go civilian suit and all that sort of thing. Get all, everything sorted out and that was that.
CB: So now you’re a civilian.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What did, what did you do then?
HW: Well, two or three of us started a garage. Three of us. No, two of us and me started a garage in Brackley. Yeah.
CB: And how long did you run the garage?
HW: For a while I think um I forget how long. Not all that long I don’t think. But er – [?]
CB: So who were the other two people?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Who started the garage with you?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Who were they?
HW: They come out the air force. One was a flight lieutenant, an engineer. Flight Lieutenant [Capping] and the other was a, a driver. Forget what he did in the air force. Well, he was a driver in the air force.
CB: What was his name?
HW: Jefford. Jefford. J E F F O R D, yeah. Yeah, we started this garage together you see.
CB: In Brackley.
HW: Eh?
CB: In Brackley.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Did you sell new cars as well as old cars or did you not sell any cars?
HW: No. There weren’t many cars around then.
CB: Right.
HW: Had to make new cars out of old ones.
CB: How long did the garage continue to work?
HW: Well, I don’t know. I think I, we’d split up I think for family reasons and one reason or another. I forget now what happened after that.
CB: How well did it operate when you started because you had a flight lieutenant, a sergeant and a driver.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So, we’re now in civilian life. How did the balance of power operate?
HW: Well you had to put that behind you.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So who was the senior -
HW: And we did.
CB: Right.
HW: We did very well in that respect. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Who was the senior person in the partnership?
HW: Well, I would say the flight lieutenant.
CB: No. No. In practical terms.
HW: Eh?
CB: In civilian life who was the senior person?
HW: Just get on with it it was the obvious thing to do.
CB: Yeah.
HW: And well you never sort of threw your weight about.
CB: No.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Where abouts in Brackley was that?
HW: Out by the old fish shop. Behind the fish shop. On the High Street.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So was it difficult or was it successful?
HW: Difficult to start with trying to start a business from nothing really. Yeah.
CB: And then did you eventually do something on your own or what did you do?
HW: Yes I think I did. Forget what. Oh yeah, I went looking after agricultural machinery at Twyford Seed. Looking after that. That was a very big plant and we had a lot of tractors and combines and that sort of thing there. Nothing like Canada of course.
CB: And you did that till you retired or what did you do?
HW: Yeah. I think so. Stayed with them for quite some time. Yeah.
CB: Did the garage keep running in the meantime or had that -
HW: No. It folded up.
CB: What caused it to fold up?
HW: I think everybody got fed up I think. Didn’t make money and people were not paying you for the work you’d done and that sort of thing.
CB: Ok. What do you think was the most memorable experience that you had in the RAF?
HW: I had a lot of them. Some I’d rather forget. Well, I suppose Dunkirk. I should think was one of the worst.
CB: In what way?
HW: Well trying to get on board boats and getting shot at by the Germans and bombed and Christ knows what, which was not a very nice thing to happen.
CB: What else?
HW: Hmmn?
CB: What else? What else was memorable, do you think?
HW: Oh [pause] I don’t know. I can’t think of anything else much.
CB: At Dunkirk -
HW: Yes.
CB: Did you all, as a squadron, arrive together?
HW: No. No, we got together after we’d come back and landed in England ‘cause we, we got there on all shapes and sizes of boats you see. I mean you couldn’t get everybody on one boat. You just had to get on the boat that you could and that was it but we got together afterwards of course.
CB: Was everybody there or had some people been killed on the way?
HW: No. As far as I remember everybody survived it.
Other: Can I just collect the cups?
HW: Hello there. Yeah. [pause] thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.
CB: So you all got together in the end.
HW: Pardon?
CB: Did you say everybody survived?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Some were wounded of course.
CB: Were they?
HW: Yeah.
CB: What, some seriously or just -
HW: Eh?
CB: How serious was that?
HW: Under supervision as far as I know. I don’t think anybody was seriously hurt.
CB: You said that some of the memories you’d rather forget.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What else would you rather forget?
HW: [?] I’d rather forget the lot.
CB: Well, it’s been really interesting to talk to you again, Harold.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Thank you very much indeed.
HW: Alright. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Harold James Warren. One
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Chris Brockbank
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-25
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AWarrenH160325
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Pending OH summary
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Royal Canadian Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Interview in which he describes joining the RAF in 1938 and worked as ground crew. After training in Canada, he became a flight engineer and worked on Sunderlands flying from RAF Greenock.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Scotland--Greenock
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Saskatchewan
Temporal Coverage
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1938
Format
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00:58:23 audio recording
13 OTU
218 Squadron
aircrew
Battle
Blenheim
fitter airframe
fitter engine
flight engineer
ground crew
Harvard
Operational Training Unit
RAF Bicester
RAF Greenock
RAF Hinton
RAF St Athan
Sunderland
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/535/8771/AWarrenHJ160506.1.mp3
786b70fc2ba766c2181f927d741ffae6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Warren, Harold James
H J Warren
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Warren, HJ
Description
An account of the resource
10 items. Two oral history interviews with Harold James Warren (1921 - 2017, 619608 Royal Air Force) service material, a note book, diary and photographs. He Joined the RAF in 1938, and after training as ground crew but remustered and after training in Canada, became a flight engineer.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Harold Warren and catalogued by Peter Adams.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-10-22
2015-10-30
2016-07-12
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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CB: My name Is Chris Brockbank and today is the 6th of May 2016 and I’m back with Harold Warren in Brackley and his children Mervin and Carol and we’re just doing a re-run on a number of items. So, what I want to talk about is when you were in Canada then you met various people one of whom suggested you might like to fly, I understand. And so on leaving Canada what did you do? If you could just take me on from there please.
HW: Same sort of job that I was doing in this country. Maintaining aircraft mostly.
CB: And what about flying?
HW: Yeah. Got air testing of course.
CB: Yes.
HW: When you done the job they like you to go up in the aircraft that you worked on.
CB: Yeah. Why was that?
HW: Well keep everybody a bit more happy. They’d think, ‘Well if he worked on it he would do the job properly.’
CB: Right.
HW: Which I did in any case.
CB: Yes. But it was a sort of incentive.
HW: That’s right.
CB: In a way.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So when you came back to the UK -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Where were posted to when you returned?
HW: Come back to Bicester, I think.
CB: Yeah.
HW: I reckon so.
CB: And you mentioned that you went on to flying boats.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Where was that? So where did you go on to flying boats?
HW: Scotland.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah. Greenock.
CB: Greenock. Ok.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And what were you doing with the flying boats there?
HW: Same job.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Flight engineer on those.
CB: So you were flying on them.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Ok.
HW: Yeah. Used to from Greenock -
CB: Yeah.
HW: Flew up the north of England.
CB: Yeah.
HW: To Canada.
CB: Right.
HW: Which you had to landing in there.
CB: Yeah.
HW: To refuel.
CB: Yeah.
HW: But er -
CB: And then come back again.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. We couldn’t, we could force the U-boats up.
CB: Yeah.
HW: But we couldn’t take any on board because we hadn’t got room for them.
CB: Right.
HW: So we kept them covered.
CB: Yeah.
HW: And they had a navy ship to come along and take them off, take the prisoners off. Yeah.
CB: So, this particular U-boat, how did you come to capture that?
HW: Well I really, I don’t know quite. It wasn’t my job that. All I know is we made them surface.
CB: Right.
HW: They found some way. I don’t know they did, they had sort of a radar thing [I believe] in those days. It was not a very complicated thing but I mean it was early days then.
CB: Yeah.
HW: And mainly I think they were forced up you see because we dropped, we’d located them someway. I don’t know. That was not my job.
CB: No.
HW: It was the navigator’s job and we forced them up and we dropped the depth charges and they thought they’d better come up and they did. So we kept them covered till we got a navy escort to take them away from us.
CB: So the depth charges made it come to the surface.
HW: Yeah.
CB: How did you know that it was surrendering?
HW: Well I don’t know quite. I think they, when they surfaced I think they were covered by gunfire.
CB: Your gun fire.
HW: Yeah, our gun fire. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So you had several turrets on the plane.
HW: Eh?
CB: You had several machine gun turrets.
HW: Oh yeah. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. One, two, three. About four at least.
CB: Yeah. So the submarine is on the surface. Then what did you do? Did you fly around it or did you land next to it? What did you do?
HW: We landed, we alighted next to it.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Kept them covered by rifle fire and that was it.
CB: And how close did you get to the submarine?
HW: Very close.
CB: Did anybody go on board?
HW: Yeah. I for one.
CB: Oh did you?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Right. So when you got on the submarine -
HW: Yeah.
CB: What did you do?
HW: Just had a good look around.
CB: Ahum.
HW: I found a great, a lovely box of apples [laughs]. So they didn’t stay on the submarine long.
CB: No. What about equipment? Was, what equipment did you find in there that you wanted to remove?
HW: Well we didn’t er see much of that really because we weren’t, we didn’t stay there long on board as we had to come back, still keeping them covered -
CB: Right.
HW: Till we got the navy escort to take them away.
CB: How long did it take for the navy to come?
HW: Not long.
CB: Roughly.
HW: Not long because it was, we, we radioed that we’d got a submarine on the surface.
CB: Yes.
HW: Well before the surface.
CB: Right.
HW: And they had to come and take them off quick.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Because we couldn’t er we couldn’t delay flying.
CB: No.
HW: ‘Cause we hadn’t got enough fuel to take all that, too much mileage so we had to, we had to take off again.
CB: Yeah. So you landed next to it.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So that you could wait for the destroyer. Was it a destroyer or what was it?
HW: Any what?
CB: What kind of ship was it?
HW: I don’t know um I forget the name.
CB: Ok. Do you remember the number of the U-boat?
HW: No.
CB: Right.
HW: No.
CB: And -
HW: [Nearly all U something.]
CB: Yeah, so when you got on the U-boat who, who else came with you?
HW: Um the navigator I think. [knock?] Come in.
Other: Sorry I’ve just got your cups. Sorry. Sorry.
HW: Thank you.
Other: I’ll shut the door for you.
CB: Thanks. The navigator -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. What was his name?
HW: Um I think you’ve got me now. I don’t know.
CB: Ok.
HW: Forget.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Wilson I think.
CB: Ok and how well -
HW: Flying officer Wilson, I think.
CB: Pardon? Flying Officer Wilson.
HW: Ahum.
CB: Ok. And what did he do when he went on the submarine?
HW: Had a look around and we didn’t stop on the sub long. Just had a quick look and come back off it again.
CB: Apart from the apples what else did you remove from the submarine?
HW: Very little. [Nothing at all].
CB: No electronic equipment.
HW: No.
CB: Right. Charts?
HW: Eh?
CB: Did he pick up any charts? What did he pick up?
HW: Maps, I think he got. The navigator picked up.
CB: Yeah.
HW: A compass. [coughing] Yeah. A compass.
CB: A compass.
HW: From memory, he got a compass.
CB: Because, did you, were you able to watch the submarine as soon as it, yourself, as soon as it came to the surface?
HW: Yeah.
CB: And did you see the Germans get out of the submarine?
HW: No. Not as I remember. Not as I remember, ‘cause we had to get ready for another, for our take-off.
CB: Yeah.
HW: And everything.
CB: Do you think -
HW: We had to do checks for take-off.
CB: Right. You had to do your checks for take-off. And did they throw anything overboard? Do you know?
HW: I don’t know. I didn’t see it.
CB: No.
HW: If they did I didn’t see it.
CB: Yeah.
HW: I suppose they did. I don’t know.
CB: Because –
HW: A common thing.
CB: Well, all the submarines had an enigma machine in.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And I just wonder -
HW: Yeah. So I believe.
CB: Yeah. So what date are we talking about now?
HW: Eh?
CB: What date? Roughly
HW: I don’t know.
CB: No.
HW: That’s a long time ago.
CB: Yes. And that, you’ve got a picture of a Sunderland on here.
HW: No. That wasn’t, that’s not a Sunderland.
CB: Oh. Isn’t it?
HW: No. That’s a conversion from a civilian -
CB: Right.
HW: Thing. That was.
CB: Yeah. But you were on Sunderland’s.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And what squadron were you?
HW: Eh?-
CB: What was the squadron number? Yours.
HW: Er pretty low number er eight, eighty four, no. Not as high as that. Eighty something.
CB: Was it?
HW: Eighty one or two.
CB: Ok.
HW: I think.
CB: Ok. And the crew, were they all British or were they a combination?
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Ok. And you were flying from Scotland.
HW: Yeah. Greenock.
CB: Greenock. Yeah. So when you got back -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Then what happened?
HW: Well, just made our report and everything. Carried out a service on the aircraft ready for the next trip.
CB: Right and um did you get interviewed by the intelligence officer when you returned?
HW: Oh yeah. Yeah. He wanted to know all sorts of things.
CB: Right.
HW: What you saw and, you know, all that sort of thing.
CB: And this was all in daylight.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did you see the destroyer come alongside the submarine?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did it arrive while you were there? Did it?
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Ok.
HW: Yeah. They soon, they soon took the German crew away.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And do you know what they did with the submarine?
HW: I think they took it back to Greenock or somewhere.
CB: Oh did they?
HW: Yeah. I think so.
CB: They towed it?
HW: Because they wanted to poke about and find different things on it you see. They took it somewhere. I’m not sure where.
CB: But they were able to tow it?
HW: Yeah. They -
CB: Ok.
HW: They had a crew that could understand it, the German submarine -
CB: Yeah.
HW: It was kept on the surface and we just took off and that was it.
CB: Yeah. Right
HW: We didn’t see it anymore.
CB: No. And how -
HW: Took it some experimental place and all that sort of thing.
CB: Right, and can you remember roughly when this was?
HW: [laughs] I can’t. Not really.
CB: Was it the summertime or was it the winter or what?
HW: Er winter I think. Autumn time, something like that I reckon it was.
CB: Ok. And after you’d been on that -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Sortie, did you fly much more after that?
HW: Not a lot. No.
CB: Because they posted you somewhere else? Or what happened?
HW: No. I came back to Bicester.
CB: Came back to Bicester.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yeah ok. Right.
HW: It was time for demob then of course.
CB: Oh right. Soon after. Yeah. Well, you were demobbed in, a year after the war finished weren’t you?
HW: Eh?
CB: You were demobbed in -
HW: Yeah.
CB: 1946.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Yes.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What else do you remember about these trips on the Sunderlands?
HW: Well, all I know, I had a job to do. Make sure, check all the instruments frequently.
CB: Yeah.
HW: To make sure the aircraft engines were working correctly.
CB: Right.
HW: And you’re going from one side of the aircraft to the other. Took you a little while. You had to have a chat on the way of course with everybody else.
CB: Absolutely. Coffee break.
HW: And make a cup of tea. [laughs]
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: How long did it take to fly from Greenock to Canada?
HW: Er a long flight and the Sunderland was about the only aircraft that could do it. About six hours, seven hours, something like that I would think. No. Longer than that. Further than that. If the Sunderland could stay airborne eight, nine hours. It didn’t take quite that long but you had to have a safety margin.
CB: Yeah.
HW: In case you had trouble.
CB: Yeah.
HW: That sort of thing.
CB: How many people in the crew?
HW: Er two pilots, navigator, bomb aimer, flight engineer and two or three miscellaneous people. Gunners and that sort of thing. About eight or nine, I suppose.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So your tasks were to monitor the instruments.
HW: Eh?
CB: Your task -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Was to monitor the instruments.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What else?
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Oil pressure and all that sort of thing.
CB: What about transferring fuel from tanks.
HW: Eh?
CB: Did you have a task to move the fuel between tanks? Did you move petrol from one tank to another?
HW: Yeah. You could do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That er, that applied to most aircraft -
CB: Did it?
HW: During the war. You transferred fuel from one to the other -
CB: Right.
HW: In case you got a leak and you could change it over.
CB: Right.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So where was most of the fuel stored?
HW: Wings. Yeah. All depends where the tanks were. Some were in the fuselage. Mainly in the wings.
CB: What sort of things went wrong? With the -
HW: Eh?
CB: What sort of things went wrong with the aeroplane?
HW: Oh various things. As I say oil pressure for one thing was a deciding factor whether you could carry on or what. Yeah. There was nothing you could do about oil pressure and that sort of thing if you was out at sea although we did have one or two that were carrying out maintenance. Sort of if you had a snag you could report it back and if you were lucky you might be in flying distance of the servicing aircraft so you’d done very well. Yeah.
CB: So, on these flights you were the only engineer.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Were you kept busy all the time or did you get a bit of a rest?
HW: Yeah. You got a bit of rest but you asked one of the others to keep an eye on things. You were pretty, they all sort of knew what was going on and, you know, you could work with one another and that sort of thing.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Well you couldn’t, you had to have a bit of a rest.
CB: Yeah. And when you were flying -
HW: Yeah.
CB: And doing this flight engineer job.
HW: Yeah.
CB: What rank were you?
HW: Yeah, I was a corporal then.
CB: Right.
HW: Promoted to a sergeant.
CB: Oh you were. Right.
HW: You had, you had to be a senior NCO
CB: Yeah.
HW: In case you were taken prisoner ‘cause you were supposed to be taken care of better then.
CB: Right.
HW: Which I doubt [laughs]
CB: So you had the engineer’s brevvy on did you?
HW: Eh?
CB: Did you have on your uniform the -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Engineer’s -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Brevvy?
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. And when you went back onto ground work.
HW: Yeah.
CB: You kept your brevvy did you?
HW: Yeah.
CB: And what about your rank? Did you keep your rank?
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: So, for the rest of the war you were a sergeant.
HW: Yeah. It wasn’t for very long. Soon demobbed.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Ok. So how many flying hours do you think you did roughly?
HW: More than I care to think about [laughs]. A lot of them.
CB: Ok. How long were you flying in these aircraft, in the Sunderlands? How many months?
HW: About three I think. Something like that. Maybe more. I don’t know. Maybe less.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And when you started had you volunteered to do it or did they just send you there?
HW: Well depends on what qualification you had and I’d been used to four engine aircraft. Sometimes Lancasters and that sort of thing. Sunderlands. And they had American aircraft, four engine bombers. Worked on those so that’s probably why I ended up like that.
CB: Yeah. When you were in Canada.
HW: Ahum.
CB: Did you start flying there? Or did you -
HW: No, not a lot, only testing aircraft. [testing of course]
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Similar job.
CB: Yeah. So how many big aeroplanes were there -
HW: Yeah.
CB: In Canada?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Were there big ones there?
HW: Er –
CB: Lancasters?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Or American?
HW: The American. Yeah. Yeah. I liked working on the American aircraft.
CB: Why was that?
HW: Well, you had all the tools and everything to do the job. On the RAF you were lucky if you found a screwdriver or a spanner. [laughs] Yeah.
CB: They were that -
HW: Short of equipment and all that sort of thing. The Americans were geared up for that sort of thing.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: There was, was there a general shortage in the RAF of tools to do the job was there?
HW: Eh?
CB: Was there a general shortage of tools?
HW: Yeah.
CB: In the RAF.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s err you had to get your finger out and put in a lot of hours.
CB: Yeah. What about the weather?
HW: Weather. Yeah. [Canada was the nicer part of it] and part of it was bloody awful but we carried on just as normal. They didn’t, they ignored the weather over there. They had to carry on. No matter. I mean you couldn’t stop for three or four months while it was bad weather could you?
CB: No.
HW: No. They didn’t.
CB: How deep was the snow?
HW: Oh it varied quite a lot. Depended where you were. Yeah.
CB: And when you were flying, going back to your flying time -
HW: Yeah.
CB: What was the balance between daylight and night flying in the Sunderland?
HW: Quite a difference really. I can’t tell you any [details?] of it but -
CB: Which did you do more of? Daylight or night time flying in the Sunderland?
HW: It varied quite a bit. I mean you might take off in daylight. You end up flying, end up in the dark and then might be the other way about. Yeah.
CB: When you landed next to this submarine because you’d disabled it -
HW: Yeah.
CB: Was that daylight or was that in the night?
HW: Daylight. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah.
CB: And how long did it take you to eat all the apples?
HW: Eh? Oh not long [laughs] yeah. Very good.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So what would you say was the highlight of your time in the RAF?
HW: I don’t know. I had a lot of them I think. That was one of the highlights, I suppose.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Bringing the submarine to the surface.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. We all cheered then [laughs]. Yeah.
CB: What did the Germans do? Did they stand on the deck or did they keep inside the submarine?
HW: Er well we took them off the submarine.
CB: Oh did you?
HW: Ahum.
CB: On to the Sunderland.
HW: On to the Sunderland. Temporary so that the naval escort could come and pick them up.
CB: Yeah.
HW: ‘Cause they’d already taken the German submarine away.
CB: Oh had they?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Oh right.
HW: Yeah.
CB: Right. So what did you do? Stack them one on top of the other did you in your submarine, in your, in your Sunderland? How did you get them all in?
HW: Get what?
CB: How did you get all these German sailors in your -
HW: Oh.
CB: Sunderland?
HW: Oh there was just room.
CB: There was?
HW: Yeah. They were packed in mind you.
CB: Yeah.
HW: I mean, in one, in one crew and somebody had to cover them with a rifle and machine gun.
CB: Right.
HW: That was it.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Until they were picked up by the navy.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: ‘Cause, their, their officers carried lugers.
HW: Yeah.
CB: So they were confiscated were they?
HW: Yeah. Of course.
CB: Yeah.
HW: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
CB: And how long were they on your Sunderland would you say?
HW: Not long. A matter of hours.
CB: Ahum.
HW: Yeah.
CB: But you didn’t let them have any of the apples.
HW: Managed two or three [laughs]
CB: Right. What was the worst thing that happened to you in the RAF?
HW: I don’t know. I can think of quite a few.
CB: What, in those early days? Or -
HW: What?
CB: Later.
HW: I think the worst one is when we, the first job we went, we went to France early -
CB: Yeah.
HW: In the war. Well about the first day of the war and it was a waste of time. We’d got nothing to, no airc, couldn’t, as I say we got nothing. No armaments. Hardly anything. But we, gradually, we were about stationed mid-France, can’t think of the name now. No end of them. And we were gradually forced up to the north towards Dunkirk which we had to be evacuated and I think that was about the worst bit I come across. Yeah. We were evacuated Dunkirk. Come back to this country on a little boat.
CB: Oh, did you?
HW: Yeah.
CB: Did you have to wade out to that or did you get on to it or from one of the moles?
HW: Eh?
CB: Did you have to wade out through the water to the boat or were you put on -
HW: Some did. Some didn’t. It just depends. Yeah. I didn’t. In fact a boat come in to the shore more or less and got them on board but some had to wade out to them. ‘Cause there weren’t many rescue boats about then.
CB: Yeah.
HW: No.
CB: Ok. Harold, thank you very much indeed.
HW: You’re welcome.
CB: That was really helpful.
HW: You’re welcome.
Dublin Core
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Interview with Harold James Warren. Two
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Chris Brockbank
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-05-06
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Sound
Identifier
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AWarrenHJ160506
Conforms To
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Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Pending OH summary
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Description
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Continuing of interview with H J Warren. Includes descriptions of encountering submarines when flying from RAF Greenock.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Scotland--Greenock
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1945
1946
Format
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00:27:35 audio recording
aircrew
flight engineer
ground crew
RAF Bicester
RAF Greenock
submarine
Sunderland
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/564/8832/PEmlynJonesA1601.1.jpg
5a87ab19fbe21121173bd90fd1d7fd8e
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/564/8832/AEmlynJonesA161012.1.mp3
bc8126645f0b2316e1d629a80b2452f6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Emlyn-Jones, Alun
A Emlyn-Jones
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archvie
Identifier
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EmlynJones, A
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Alun Emlyn-Jones (Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 51 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2016-10-12
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Anne Roberts, the interviewee is Alun Emlyn-Jones. The interview is taking place at Mr Emlyn-Jones’s home in Cardiff, in Wales on the 12th of October 2016.
AR: Thank you Alun for agreeing to talk to me today.
AEJ: My pleasure.
AR: Also present at the interview is Julie Emlyn-Jones, Alun’s wife.
AEJ: That’s right.
AR: So Alun, could you tell me something about your early life?
AEJ: My early life? Well I was brought up in Cardiff, my parents - I was one of two children, my sister was six years older than me and I was the second one and I spent all my early life here really. Then at the age of ten I was sent away to school, I was banished to England for my education. I was very unhappy at school, it was a very difficult time for me, it was just emotional. I was a home boy, I wanted to stay at home I didn’t really want to go but I went to Summer Fields in Oxford to start with and that’s in my book under the title ‘Nightmare’ [laughing] and then I went on to Charterhouse, which was easier. And then, heaven knows what might have happened, I might have gone on to university and so on I suppose, but as a matter of fact I don’t think I was all that scholastically brilliant because I wasn’t working as much as I should have, but the war came to make my decision for me. So I was able then, my parents let me come home waiting for whatever should happen. When it came to, as you know if you volunteered, even if for a short while before you would have been called up you got the privilege of putting down preferences of where you would go, and I must say I wasn’t directed by anything more noble than the fact that I didn’t really want to slog through muddy trenches, so I decided on, you had to put one for each service. So I put my priority as aircrew in Bomber Command, my second one was the submarines and my one for the Army was in tanks, so the idea was that I was going to be carried wherever I was going [laughter] and in due course I was given my first choice and I went to Penarth, I’ve skipped a lot of my youth I’m afraid, went to Penarth to start training there. I’ve skipped a lot, you want to know more about my youth of course.
AR: No, whatever you want to tell us, it’s fine. So your training was in Penarth?
AEJ: We started our initial training, well we started, we met in Penarth before we were sent out to our stations, you know. We went to various places, all over the place. I spent a lot of time training in South Africa, went out on a troop ship, it took six weeks out and six weeks back, incredible, and did my training in a place called East London in South Africa and then came back in due course.
AR: And what did the training entail Alun?
AEJ: Well I suppose we did a lot of flying, Ansons and aircraft like that and then we graduated I think to Whitleys and it was on Whitleys that I was flying with my first crew at the conversion unit. At that point, at the conversion unit we moved to Halifax, the Halifax which we were going to fly during operations. And that’s what we did, so we flew in the Halifax on a regular basis from RAF Rufforth on the flat plain of York and then one day, my crew, well I had my appendix out, that was a very important thing for me. I had an appendix attack. I was able to get home, or it happened somewhere where I could be at home and I had my appendix attack and I had my appendix out in a local nursing home in Cardiff. I wrote to my skipper Stanley Bright ‘I do worry about one thing’ I said, ‘because this has caused me to leave you now and you may not be able to wait for me’. He said ‘don’t worry a bit, the weather’s clamped, we’re doing very little flying, you’re going to be back in a few weeks and that’ll be fine’ And that was the last I heard of him, from him. They were flying from Rufforth on one of their training trips, conversion trips while I had my appendix, they had taken off but they were In, I think, 10/10ths cloud and they were doing simply something like, a simple exercise, I think something like circuits and bumps, you know landing, taking off, landing, taking off, all that sort of thing and I think they got slightly off track in this dense cloud and didn’t realise, because we didn’t have the sophistication with radar that they have now and didn’t realise that the hill, called Garrowby Hill was between them and the ground and they flew into the hill. They killed a passing truck driver and the plane hit the road near Cot Nab Farm, top of Garrowby Hill and disintegrated in the fields and they were all killed. So suddenly I was left, an odd bod with no crew and ah, had to wait to see what would happen. But of course that caused quite a lot of delay in when I started flying and so on as you can see from my logbook, and eventually I was adopted by a crew whose bomb aimer had been taken, borrowed by another crew, and when he was borrowed he was killed. So they ended up as a crew without a bomb aimer and I was a bomb aimer without a crew and they asked me if I would like to join them which of course I was, I was delighted to because that period of just hanging about, just going wandering about the station, not belonging to anybody was a very difficult time, a very, very difficult time. What I couldn’t understand was the attitude of the, I don’t know who he was, one of the senior officers. I couldn’t understand his sort of antagonism to me. He just interviewed me and wanted to know what I was doing and things like that, and then he said ‘get out’. I couldn’t understand that but later, I think I saw that he had been unaware of me not being killed at the time and included me in the list of those who had died that day and I think that he was feeling guilty about that and took it out on me. There was no other reason, I had no personal contact with him that otherwise could have caused that but that made me feel even more isolated really and I just wandered round very lonely and hopeless for quite a while until my new crew adopted me.
AR: And then you flew a number of missions?
AEJ: Well first of all we had a lovely pilot, he was a great guy, Danny and he’d done 13 ops and crashed with a full bomb load. He broke his back and he’d nevertheless come back to flying again and he adopted us and I had great admiration for him, I think we all did. But I of course, as a bomb aimer it was only over the target that I was in charge really and the rest of the time I did odd jobs. I was assistant pilot, I was assistant navigator and all the bits and pieces that went with it, you know helping the wireless operator and anything they could find for an odd job man really. I used to sit next to Danny on take off and as he pulled the heavy aircraft off the ground he would come out in an absolute sweat and I knew he was in pain. After he’d done six or seven ops or whatever it was, one day we were actually out on the dispersal point waiting to take off and he called us together and he said ‘it’s no good I can’t fly, my back is playing up so badly I’ll kill us all’. And I just said to him, because I thought it would be true, ‘don’t worry Danny they’ll understand’. Well they didn’t. The Wing Commander came out in his Hillman and he treated Danny as though Danny was a traitor of some sort. It was dreadful. He said ‘King get into my car’ and then he turned to us and he said ‘I’m sorry your pilot is LMF - lacking in moral fibre’. I thought that was terribly cruel and we asked if we could have an interview with the Wing Commander, which he granted and I was the spokesman and I went in on behalf of the others, with them, and said ‘we want you to know sir that we have great admiration for Flying Officer King and I told him about his broken back, he ought to have known that from the records, and how he’d carried on despite that and how I could see how much pain it gave him when pulling the aircraft back and that in the end he decided that to save us all, he wouldn’t fly. He said ‘your comments are noted gentlemen’ and that was that. Danny was banished from the airfield and we never saw him again.
AR: How did that make you feel, you and your other crew members?
AEJ: Oh very badly about that, very badly. Then my third pilot came into it and took us over and we went on eventually and completed our tour. Well actually they did the full 30 ops and because I had missed one, the one they were on, actually the first one that I’d missed was the Nuremberg trip where we lost more aircraft than any other raid. Because I’d missed that I was officially granted my tour on 29 ops, that was that. That was how that ended and then I got on to Transport Command and so on and I was [emphasis] going to be posted to Japan and that really frightened me. I’d heard such awful stories about prisoners of war in Japan and I thought that was going to be dreadful and I said to then Wing Commander, I don’t know if it was the same one or not, ‘I wonder if I could have a training job of some sort for a while?’. He said ‘you ought to be honoured to be chosen for Japan’. I could have done without the honour. Anyway, the awful thing, but nevertheless, it saved my bacon, what was it, the atom bomb? Yes the atom bomb, because of that the war became over, the war with Japan finished and thankfully for me, I was saved the task of going out there. Then I went on to Transport Command and did various things and I flew quite a lot really but that was the end of my active [unclear]
AR: Where were you in the transport corps Alun?
AEJ: I can’t remember but I’ve got it in my logbook which is there. Yes I’ll have to look it up.
AR: After the war finished, what did you do then?
AEJ: Well, I had been, before the war, before I got called up, working with a little firm called Copy [unclear] Ltd at Treforest Trading Estate, near here, where we made carbon paper and typewriter ribbons. Before the war, as a young man I was pressing green buttons to make a machine go, red buttons to stop it, and things like that and when I came back they said ‘you’d better go in the sales department’, so I spent a lot of time writing sales letters. Which suited me because I like writing so that suited me very well. What was I going to say now, I’ve forgotten.
AR: Well you were talking to me about after the war. Tell me when you did all the work to create a memorial to your crew at Garrowby Hill.
AEJ: Yes, that’s the memorial there. We go up every year. Julie was able to take the service, bless her, as a, what is it for your church, you are a?
JEJ: That’s not part of it.
AEJ: I wanted to say it.
JEJ: I’m an elder.
AEJ: That’s it - I can’t remember things. She’s an elder at the church, so she is able to take the service, which she does wonderfully and we have, very often, and we’re hoping for the same number this time, about 40 people gathered on the hilltop for that occasion. So we do that every year on Armistice Sunday.
AR: And it was you who got the memorial put up?
AEJ: We did, we arranged that, or I did I suppose, well we both did, didn’t we? Yes we both did. We arranged it. We got very friendly with the people who did it, they did a lovely job as you will see. We’ve got the aircraft on the top and it’s a beautiful memorial. They come every time, the people who made it and I think he’s very proud of it and we’re very proud of what he did, it was a great job. That’s what we do every Armistice Sunday. We’ve done, how many? Huge number. A very big number anyway of these, for years and years and years.
AR: And you still keep in touch with - ?
AEJ: It was the seventieth we stopped at, no that was something else wasn’t it?
JEJ: Yes.
AR: And you’ve kept in touch until recently with your old colleagues from the war?
AEJ: I suppose I haven’t really. I’ve lost contact now.
AR: Alan can you tell me about going up to see the memorial and how you feel about Bomber Command being recognised now?
AEJ: Oh very thrilled, very thrilled, yes. Of course we had a lot of fighter boys here and they turned the tables really at that vital moment, but all the boys at St Athans were in fact killed. Every one that we knew, we knew well. My sister was a very attractive girl, and very vivacious, and she had a circle of friends wherever we went and she knew a lot of the pilots. We used to go and stay locally at Porthcawl at the Seabank Hotel and a lot of the pilots from Battle of Britain were there and they all died, sadly. But I think I’m wrong about not having any contact with my crew but my memory, it’s been shot to pieces. [pause] Nobby, Wilf, Geoff Taverner, yes. My bombing leader, Geoff Taverner, he lives in Newport so although we didn’t fly together, he was the bombing leader for my 51 Squadron and I see him quite regularly. He got the DFC actually. And I, incidentally, have just been awarded the medal Chevalier de la Legion D’honneur because quite a lot of my trips were in support of the French and a friend of mine over there, [unclear] Thomas, he said ‘you really ought to apply for the Chevalier Award because I’m sure, knowing your record that you would qualify’. And I did and I was. And Geoff as well, Geoff Taverner. We had a very moving occasion in Cardiff for that. It was rather lovely and the family were able to be there and it was fantastic really.
AR: Congratulations, that’s wonderful.
AEJ: It’s a nice title to have. It’s a wonderful medal, very, very handsome.
AR: That’s lovely to hear. So after the war Alun, life continued and you were working in Cardiff?
AEJ: That’s right and then I got to feel that, it was pure chance really. I wanted to help the people. Because there was a tendency to have a drink problem in my family, on my mother’s side, one of my uncles had a problem and my sister and I both inherited it. And I thought, when I heard about this job, an organisation was being formed in Cardiff, the Council on Alcoholism, if I could get in on that I would be able to help others as well as myself. I applied. My sister, however continued to drink although she was married and she had two children and a loyal husband and she didn’t mean to do these things but she couldn’t stop, you know. She was wonderfully talented, a very gifted and bright girl who drove cars at great speed. She was a tremendous character but she couldn’t quite come to terms with this and I was worried about her and it was because of her, as much as anything, that I thought if I join, if I get in on this job, I’ll learn enough to help her properly and she died the very day I was appointed. But I was appointed, and having put my shoulder to the wheel, as it were, I thought that’s what I’ll continue to do and it became my life’s work. I built up a hostel for people with the problem in Cardiff, Dyfrig House and then moved on and did Emlyn House in Newport. And then we moved on, out into the nearby valleys and did a third one, the Brynnal [?] and then my daughters, two of my four daughters, decided that this was for them so they came in, Rhoda and Lucy and played their very significant role and Lucy became the Director of the Gwent Alcohol Project and Rhoda was in charge of the Community Alcohol and Drugs Team and so we made it a family business [laughter] .
AR: That’s wonderful.
AEJ: I think over the years we were able to help quite a lot of people. The hostel in Cardiff for example, Dyfrig House, we had a Day Centre and a workshop, we had crafts that people could make and all sorts of things as well as having accommodation and support, so there was a lot happening.
AR: Wonderful. Is there anything else Alun you can remember about your - going back to the RAF, your time in Bomber Command, anything else you would like to tell us about what it was like to fly on the Halifaxes?
AEJ: Well I liked the Halifax. The Halifax of course was overshadowed a bit by the Lancaster, in the same way really as the Spitfire outshone the Hurricane. The Hurricane did a very fine job nevertheless and the same applied to the Halifax. It was eclipsed by the glamour of the Lancaster. But I liked it, on a practical basis it had much more room inside so you could move around more easily. Also, which I think is a very important point, it was easier to bail out of [laughter] . It was a good sturdy workhorse and I got very fond of it yes. It just didn’t get the glamour and people always think of Lancasters, they don’t think of Halifaxes. Of course before that, there was the Stirling, after the two-engined ones. I didn’t fly in those, I think I got one trip once but not an operational trip and of course before that we were on Whitleys. We were flying Whitleys. Yes I liked the Halifax very much indeed. I enjoyed flying actually. I mean compared with my friends who are in civilian airlines who drew thousands and thousands and thousands of hours, the whole war I think my total was seven hundred and fifty but seven hundred and fifty hours we packed a lot of stuff into it. I find it such a privilege really to work with crews like that. We became great friends, that’s the thing, it wasn’t just that we were working together, we became great friends. You know we went out together as well and met socially when we could. Oh it was tremendous comradeship. I deem myself very fortunate indeed to have had that opportunity and of course to have survived because the expectation of life was only six weeks, and so to have survived was extraordinary good fortune. We were losing boys all the time. You know, ‘so and so bought it’ that was the expression, ‘so and so bought it’ so you know one of the people we knew well hadn’t come back, they had crashed or been shot down. I mean on one daylight (sortie) I remember seeing lots of aircraft going down. Later, this particular man, lives in Cardiff so I see him quite often because I’ve got a group called 51 Squadron and Friends. The group meets quite regularly and I saw this aircraft just below me, being shot down and it turned out to be his so I was able to tell him I’d actually seen him shot down. He was then captured by the Germans but they treated him with respect. Another of my friends who was shot down in the First War was put into Pfaffenwald which was dreadful and he had a dreadful time there but then the Luftwaffe itself said ‘you shouldn’t have this man there, he should be in a proper prison, so he was transferred, that surely saved his life although he died young in the end, but that was a separate matter. But er, yes there was great comradeship. I’ve rambled on enough I think.
AR: Not at all, it’s been fascinating.
AEJ: Thank you so much.
AR: No thank you, thank you Alun very much for giving us the time.
AEJ: It’s was my pleasure. I just wonder how many things I’ve missed out.
AR: Alun we’re going to carry on now. Can you tell me a little bit about your nickname?
AEJ: Actually of course so many of my compatriots from Wales were called Taffy and I suppose I would have been but in fact Grem fitted in very well and I got called Grem all the way through my Air Force career. That’s because it’s short for Gremlin and Gremlin was the little creature who used to disturb our instruments in the aircraft, imaginary one I need hardly say [laughter] . It was short for that and it also rhymes with my name Emlyn, Alun Emlyn. So for those two reasons I got called Grem and enjoyed that nickname and I’m still called Grem by some people. Geoff Taverner my colleague and one time bombing leader from Newport, he still calls me Grem for example, so it’s very nice to have that.
AR: And animals played an important part for you.
AEJ: Yes, well when we were stationed at one place I picked up a goat, a little goat. He was a dear little thing and he used to live in my billet and used to greet me with licking my face at night and things like that but then he got bigger and bigger and bigger and I had to think of something to do with him so we asked a local farmer if he, no we didn’t, we found a spot at a water tower in the village and he would have shelter and he was on a long lead and we had him there for quite a while and then one time he got away from his lead and went all round the village eating the tops off people’s plants. That became rather unpopular so I gave him to the local farmer on the strict [emphasis] understanding he would be used for breeding and not be killed. So I hope that’s what happened, I hope he had a happy life. Then we had our dog, Jimmy, I picked Jimmy up somehow and Jimmy sort of lived constantly with us and was a great guy. I can’t remember what happened to Jimmy in the end.
AR: Did Jimmy wait for you when you came back from - ?
AEJ: Yes Jimmy used to be there. Wherever we’d been and wherever he’d been in the meantime , he was always waiting on the tarmac when we got back and he lived in my billet with me. So we had a bit of a menagerie really. I can’t remember what happened to Jimmy, pity we can’t ask [laughter]. So there we are and of course when we searched for the spot to put the memorial for the first crew at Garrowby Hill, a lot of research went into that. We had a local archivist, he worked very hard at it all. We met a girl, a woman then, as a girl she’d been stationed in that area where the crash took place and through personal contact we were able to be sure [emphasis] that where we put the memorial was exactly where the crash took place, so that was very helpful. But the trouble is Anne now, for me is that my memory is shot to pieces and I can’t remember clearly. I can’t , even though a few moments ago I had it clearly in my mind I can’t remember everything that I was told unless I wrote it down.
AR: Thank you Alun, what you’ve been able to tell us has been marvellous.
AEJ: Well you’ve been very kind and I’ve know it’s not been adequate.
AR: It’s been wonderful and it will be a great addition to the archive. Thank you very much.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Alun Emlyn-Jones
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Anne Roberts
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-12
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AEmlynJonesA161012, PEmlynJonesA1601
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:34:11 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Alun Emlyn-Jones (known as Grem among his RAF colleagues) was raised in Cardiff and attended boarding schools in Oxfordshire. He worked manufacturing office supplies when he volunteered to serve in Bomber Command, hoping to avoid being called up to the infantry. Alun trained in Penarth and in East London, South Africa, and then worked as a bomb aimer.
Alun talks of flying on the Anson and Whitley, and of being assigned to a Halifax crew. He describes a training flight accident at Garrowby Hill, Yorkshire in which his crewmates were killed. Alun, who was hospitalised at the time, was not on board the aircraft. He recalls his loneliness at being without a crew, and the unexplained animosity towards him from a senior officer. He talks of joining another aircrew and of adaptability being a part of the role of the bomb aimer, before reflecting on his feelings about the unjust dismissal of the crew’s pilot for lack of moral fibre.
Alun recalls his transfer to RAF Transport Command in 1945 and talks of organising the erection of a memorial to his crew at Garrowby Hill. He mentions his pride at the memorial, and his attendance at annual commemorations there for many years. He goes on to reflect on his preference for the Halifax over other aircraft, his enjoyment of flying, and on the great friendship and comradeship among aircrews, describing a closeness which continued after the war. He also mentions his affection for the animals that he kept in his billet during the war.
Alun relates that he first returned to his pre-war job after the war, but later joined the Welsh Council on Alcoholism to help others and in support of his sister, whom he describes affectionately.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1944
1955
Contributor
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Leah Warriner-Wood
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Oxfordshire
Wales
Wales--Vale of Glamorgan
Wales--Porthcawl
Wales--Newport
South Africa
South Africa--East London
Germany
Germany--Nuremberg
Japan
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Penarth
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
51 Squadron
aircrew
animal
Anson
bale out
bomb aimer
bombing
crash
Distinguished Flying Cross
gremlin
Halifax
Hurricane
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
memorial
military ethos
military service conditions
pilot
radar
RAF Rufforth
RAF St Athan
Spitfire
Stirling
training
Whitley
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/607/8876/AMaywoodRM151109.2.mp3
773cbbdec73ec1fb4e55919303593c37
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Maywood, Dick
Richard M Maywood
R M Maywood
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Maywood, RM
Description
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Three items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Richard 'Dick' Maywood (1923 -2016, 1623169 Royal Air Force), his log book and a certificate. He flew operations as a navigator with 608 and 692 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2015-11-09
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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Transcription
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CB: This was the, this was the interview with Mr Richard ‘Dick’ Maywood at xxxx and he was a Mosquito Pathfinder navigator.
[Recording resumes]
RM: Above the main bomber stream. Twenty eight thousand. We carried one cookie.
CB: Four thousand pounder.
RM: Four thousand pounder.
CB: Yeah.
RM: And we had the Mosquitoes with the bulged belly. Now a lot of those — that was the B16. A lot of those appeared in the film, “633 Squadron.” Now, that film was the biggest load of bullshit you ever came across. It was so ridiculous that a lot of people would believe it. The bombs which they showed being loaded up on these, for the operation, were cookies. The four thousand pounder bombs that we carried with the peculiar tail fin added and they were supposed to drop these bombs so that they hit the base of the rock and bring it down. Now, with the four thousand pounder we were told safety height above one of those is five thousand feet or more. They wouldn’t have been more than five hundred feet away from that rock. So, the best part of that film as I was concerned was the theme song. The theme music.
CB: Yes. Exciting.
RM: Which I intend to have played at the end of my funeral service.
CB: Oh right.
RM: Because I’m gone.
CB: Yeah.
RM: The other Mosquito film they made. “Mosquito Squadron.” Again. That was largely, sort of, bull but there was one interesting point there which is true and that is the point where they had Mosquitoes practicing dropping bombs or lobbing bombs in to tunnels and that actually did occur. And one of the Polish squadrons. I think it was 305 was involved in that but other than that away we go. The Amiens raid which was a true one.
CB: Pickard. Yeah.
RM: That formed the basis of Mosquito squadrons attack. So, in actual fact “Mosquito Squadron” in spite of the American CO and all that sort of nonsense did contain certain aspects which were very true. Curiously enough, as I say, most of the light night striking force operations were either nuisance raids to divert fighter aircraft from the main bomber stream and were raids in their own right or they were on the same targets but about a mile higher than the main stream. So, some of them, the runs, were particularly with Berlin. They used to call that the Milk Run.
CB: Yeah.
RM: Yeah.
CB: So how did that work?
RM: In exactly the same way as an ordinary raid would be set out. You’d be given the route. You’d plot the route. And you’d be given the Met winds which the weather people had found and were vital because A — you needed it for navigation in the days of steam navigation. And you also needed it as the only setting to be put on the Mark 14 bomb sight. And that was the gyroscopically controlled one. I can tell you a story about that too. I shared a bombing range with a B17 on one occasion at Boxmoor near Oxford. We’re at twenty five thousand feet. We had six practice bombs. It was a NFT. And I was sharing a range with a B17 and he could not have been more than fifteen thousand feet. With the bomb and the pickle barrel from thirty thousand feet. Norden bomb sight. His bombing error was twice mine. I was knocking up around about sixty, seventy yards and he was around about the, probably a hundred and twenty, hundred and fifty yards and as I say he was probably ten thousand feet below me. Two miles below me. So much for the American bomb sight. And that Bomb sight the bombardier had to take it out of the aircraft every time he flew and put it back in to safe keeping and then draw it out because they didn’t want the Germans to get it. But what they’d overlooked was the fact that the Germans had hacked down quite a lot of B17s and knew everything about the bombsight. But there we go. I’m afraid that you are probably going to think that I am very biased against the Americans. I’m very biased against the American navy. And I’m not particularly, sort of enthusiastic about their air force either. Any air force which bombed in daylight, in formation. Well, at a steady height. Steady speed. Nearest approach to suicide you could get. The B17 crews, I must admit, were very very brave people. Very brave people. But in those days as I say we hadn’t got much reference for them because most of the big B17 stations were around here. in this area. Northamptonshire.
CB: Near Peterborough.
RM: Peterborough and that area.
CB: Yeah.
CB: And all that area. And George, my pilot, if we were coming off a night flying test he’d look around for one of these and he’d formate on a B17 and sort of drop his undercarriage and put the flaps down and sort of follow on its wingtips and then when he’d had enough of that he’d go clean. Both engines. And then he’d fly in a circle around them as they went along because I mean we could do a hundred and ninety knots quite comfortably on one engine. But to give you some idea. On one occasion, on an authorised low flying exercise an American B, a P47, the Mustang — formated on us. “Air Police” written along it’s side and he was going like this. More or less telling us to get up. I gave him the washout sign. I said to George my pilot, I said, ‘We’ve got a visitor.’ ‘What’s that?’ He looked, ‘Oh him,’ he said. He said, ‘Let’s teach him a lesson.’ And he just took both engines through the gate and we left.
CB: Left him standing.
RM: Within a minute he was a dot. He could have beaten us at low level because of course our B16s that we were flying at that time, although it’s low level, really didn’t get into their own until we were at twenty one thousand feet or over. But going through the gate gave us that little bit extra. And that was it. Because we used to — from Downham Market we exited down between the old and new Bedford Levels right down to Royston. That was our route out. Incidentally, after VE day they said, ‘You’re coming off high level bombing. You’re going low level daylight in the far east and map reading.’ Now, that is the equivalent of going off an HGV on to formula one practically. Now, a lot of people don’t believe this but I can assure you, hand on heart, that it’s true. We were told, ‘Now, when you go to low level that is fifteen to twenty five feet.’ And we did it. Fortunately, my pilot, when he was an instructor in Canada at Estevan on Oxfords had four instances of collecting rubbish from the undercarriage of his Oxfords. Low level. Unauthorised. But he was very very good at it [laughs] and we had quite an amusing incident to do with that but if we go back to the light night striking force. As I say that was part of 8 Group which was given the permission to put eight, in brackets, PFF force. Group rather. Pathfinder force. Because each station in 8 Group had one Mosquito which was mainly light night striking force and one squadron of Lancs which were again associated with the Pathfinder force and they were equipped with H2S which gave you the map. And of course H2S was the result of quite a lot of Lancs being shot down because the night fighters, German night fighters could tune in. Home in on them and bang. And then again, the Germans had a very nasty idea called Schrage Musik which you’ve probably heard of. The upward firing guns. So, they’d home in underneath an unsuspecting Lanc and bang. That was it. But once they got wind of this then they put the Mosquito night fighters in with the bombers and that did reduce the losses a little because it upset the Germans. Now, is there any aspect that I could fill you in on? Because I don’t exactly know what you’re after you see.
CB: That’s alright. So, what I’d like to suggest is that we start with your earliest recollections of your life. What you did at school? Where you were born? And then after school what did you do?
RM: Yeah.
CB: And how did you come to join the RAF?
RM: Yeah.
CB: I’m just going to stop for a mo.
RM: Yeah.
[recording paused]
CB: Hang on. Let me just get it started again. So now we’re restarting with the early days, Dick.
RM: Yeah.
CB: So, where you were you born and —
RM: I was born —
CB: Just up the road.
RM: Just around the corner.
CB: In Peterborough.
RM: In Peterborough yes. I went to the local school which is about a hundred and fifty yards around the corner from here as an infant. From five to seven. They had the junior section then from seven to eleven and when I was eleven I got a scholarship to the local grammar school which was called Deacon’s School. Peterborough had two grammar schools. Deacon’s and King’s, of which, of course, there was very considerable a rivalry between the two [laughs] as you can imagine. Now, with King’s School it didn’t matter so much about passing the school cert exam. Eleven plus equal. With King’s School you had to be able to sing because that was the Cathedral School. And curiously enough at the service yesterday at the Peterborough Cathedral I remarked on the fact that we must be getting old because the choirboys looked smaller and smaller. I was actually in school to hear war declared. I’d reached the sixth form. And we were actually called in during the holiday to the sixth form to deal with the evacuees from London. Now they, that started on a Friday. The evacuees came into the school and we were there to separate these various children and give them to the groups to which they’d been allocated so that they could be taken to their future homes. And about half past ten, quarter to eleven on the Sunday morning the headmaster came around and said, ‘Forget about the evacuees. All of you assemble in the music room because Neville Chamberlain is going to speak to the nation at 11 o’clock.’ So, we went in there and we heard the war declared and that was that. Now, I came to the conclusion then that instead of staying on to go, say to do my A levels and go to university if that would be interrupted by war service. Now, I’d always been, from the age of about nine when I’d got a book called the Boy’s Book of Aircraft for a Christmas present I’d always been interested in the flying aspect. Biggles and all that sort of thing. And I developed quite an interest in flying from the reading point of view and from the model aircraft point of view. And I thought well why not volunteer for the air force. So as soon as I was eighteen, that was in 1941, I nipped up to Cambridge because at eighteen if I volunteered for the air force I wouldn’t be called up for the army or the navy. And so, I volunteered. I was accepted for further investigation. That was in 1941 and then in December ‘41 was called to Cardington where I had my aircrew medicals and aptitude tests and was accepted as future aircrew. And much to my annoyance, that was December ’41, I was actually called up to Lord’s Cricket Ground August bank holiday Monday 1942. I hopped off one foot on to the other. I thought that was a dirty trick [laughs] Anyway, we were assailed with needles and vaccinations and boots to be cleaned and uniforms. Paraded up and down Earl’s Court and so on and went to the zoo for meals. From there I eventually went to Number 6 ITW at Aberystwyth. I’d only been there about six weeks on a ten weeks course when I had to report sick on the Tuesday. I’d got a swollen throat and what not. Sore throat. Went to the sick quarters and the MO there sort of looked, ‘Ah, Mist Expect three times a day for three days. Come again on Friday.’ Well, this Mist Expect was a brown lotion. Yuck. Which was very evil tasting. Anyway, by the Friday morning I more or less managed to crawl up to the sick quarters and they said, ‘Strange. We’ll have you upstairs under observation.’ And that was on the Friday. On the Sunday morning I developed the classic male symptoms of mumps. Now, as soon as they realised this they whipped me off to the local isolation hospital called Tanybwlch where I was the only patient and I distinctly remember it. There were five Nurse Williams’ and one Nurse Prodigan there. I lived like a lord but the interesting thing was that I was there for a week and at the end of the week they said, ‘Right. You’ll be going home Monday. Fourteen days sick leave.’ Now, before the Monday, on the Friday, about twelve of the people who were in my flight at ITW reported in to Tanybwlch with mumps. And what they were going to do to me was nobody’s business until I mentioned fourteen days sick leave. I was the flavour of the month after that. Anyway, from there, after a week, a few weeks due to bad weather I finished up as Desford Leicester, grading school where I did my twelve hours on Tigers. Selected for further pilot training. The interesting thing was there the instructor that I had was a Sergeant Collinson. He was an ex-bank manager and three weeks after I’d finished and gone to Heaton Park word filtered through that he’d had a pupil who’d frozen on the controls and killed them both. And a nicer bloke you couldn’t have wished for. He was the exact opposite to the American instructor which I had at Grosse Ile. Anyway, as I say, we did this grading school and then from there we went to Heaton Park which of course was the centre from which all aircrew to Canada, America — the USA, South Africa were sent simply because there was no room in the sky to have UT pilots barging about and getting in the way even though the Tigers were painted yellow. But, and as I say from there I volunteered for the Flying Boat course which was rather ill fated. I did get about thirty — thirty five hours solo on Stearman N2S4s which I thought was a beautiful aircraft. It really handled superbly. The sort of one that the wing walkers are using now. Much nicer aircraft to fly then the Tiger. Had twice as much power and on Tiger if you came on the approach five miles an hour too fast you nearly floated across the airfield. You didn’t get down. With the Stearman N2S4 you came in and as soon as you got the right attitude closed the throttle, stick back and it would go down on a three pointer and stick. Much nicer. Also, had brakes which helped you to stop and manoeuvre because with the tiger they had to come out and take your wing tip.
CB: Now where was this? In the states. Where?
RM: This. Grosse Ile, Detroit.
CB: Grosse Ile.
RM: Yes. And the French Grosse Ile. And that was American navy. The only British officers that we had there were one RAF and one Royal Navy officer acting as liaison because of course not only did the RAF send pilots there but of course Fleet Air Arm. And it was the Fleet Air Arm course really. With carrier work and then Flying Boats because they had to be versatile with both but I could never understand why we were subjected to the first part of the course but it was a good thing in actual fact. But I couldn’t see it at the time. Because I couldn’t understand anybody would try landing a Catalina on a Flying Boat. It’s a ridiculous state of affairs to be. Anyway, from there, as I say, I was sent back to Canada. To Windsor, Ontario and had a re-selection board. Was re-selected as a navigator air bomber. The navigators could either be pure navigators, NavBs, NavWs nav wireless or Nav radio and in each case, it depended on the type of aircraft that they would be going on to for their training and radio mostly on fighters for instance. The day and night fighters. The —
CB: Can I just go — can I interrupt? Go back a bit? Why was it that you gave up the flying? The pilot training with the US navy.
RM: Why? I was washed off. Yes. I was washed off the course. They had a field. The main fields. Grosse Ile had several satellite airfields. Much more. And one of these was a square field on the edge of Lake Michigan and in the middle of the field was a hundred foot diameter circle. Now, it gets rather technical here because to explain it I’ve got to be technical. Imagine that there’s a line through the circle with the wind. Wind line. And this wind line when on the afternoon that I was taking my tests was at right angles to the shore of the lake. Now, this field was probably no more than four hundred yards long and the circle would be probably about eight or ninety yards in because you had to, sort of, do a touch down and off again. The afternoon, it was in August, the ambient air temperature was eighty five Fahrenheit. Now, you came down wind parallel to the wind line like a normal left hand circuit. Eight hundred feet. When your wings were opposite the circle you cut the engine and the rest was a glide. Now, you had to glide down across the wind line at between ninety and forty five degrees. Continue the left hand turn and make a right hand turn onto the wind line and in and drop. Because, of course with a lot of aircraft you’ve got no forward, fighter aircraft particularly, no forward vision. So they had to adopt this and they still do I believe. I’m not sure. Now, as soon as on the right hand turn, as soon as I crossed the shoreline I gained about fifty feet. Thermals. I’ve never done any gliding or known anything about it and I didn’t know what a thermal was. So I overshot. The next time. The second run. I came a little bit lower. I still overshot. And we had to get three out of six in the circle. The third shot. I came around and I still touched down just beyond the circle. So I knew that I’d failed but I opened up and ignored the instructor who was sitting by the side of the circle watching. Ignored his signals [laughs] I thought I will bloody well put one in and the fourth one in I actually undershot. But in order to do that my right hand wingtip on the right turn was almost in the water. It was that low. And as I say as soon as I muffed that third one I knew that I’d failed so it didn’t bother me much. Now, one difference between the RAF training aircraft and the American training aircraft was that with the Tiger Moth you had a two way Gosport system so you could talk to the pilot. With the Stearman N2S4s, both army and navy, they had one way Gosport. The pilot could talk to you but you couldn’t talk back. The other fact is that all of the instructors, army and navy instructors on pilot training in the States were usually first generation nationalised Americans. Now, they were not allowed to go to the actual warzones just in case they were spies and nasty types. So, you can imagine that these instructors had quite a bone to pick. You know. They were very bitter about being singled out for this and they took it out on us. Now, on one occasion I’d already upset my instructor. You know, before these circles landing. And if you had a high level emergency which usually occurred at two thousand feet you were supposed to glide round, selecting a field and then make this sort of approach. And we were stooging along on one exercise just before these circles and he suddenly cut the motor and said, ‘Right. High level emergency.’ And one of the satellite fields was just down there so, I gave it full left stick, full right rudder, organised a side slip and brought it right down in one go in to this field. Settled and did a three pointer. And I sat there and I thought bloody marvellous Maywood. The remarks that came over the Gosport were not printable. Definitely not printable. I had disobeyed every rule in their book. Disobeyed them. I was worthless. I was useless. He didn’t speak to me for a couple of days afterwards. He just took me up. But on the way back after the side slip he cut the visit short because we flew for an hour and a half at a time. We’d been flying for about a half an hour. He said, ‘Right. We’re going back to base.’ And he did flick rolls left right left right and obviously to try and upset me. And they had a mirror up in the centre section where they could see us and as he did these, the more he did it, you know, sort of thumbs-up which made him even worse. As I say for two days he would just take me out to the aircraft. We’d do what we had to do until this circle business and not a word was said. Now, after washing off this course, as I say, we had a re-selection board in Windsor, Ontario. It’s just across the water from Detroit and I was selected as a NavB. I had to do six months general duties work. Three months in Toronto manning depot. That was quite an interesting, mostly sweeping the floor but on one occasion. Two occasions. Two successive days. We had to, you know, two of us, another washed off pilot and myself chummed up and we were picked for guard duty in the detention barracks there. When we reported to the flight sergeant MP first thing in the morning we were handed side arms. 45 revolvers. And the SP said, ‘Now, the only thing I’m going to tell you,’ he said, ‘Is never ever let one of the prisoners get within shovel distance of you.’ Shovel distance. What’s that? He said, ‘Remember that.’ He said. ‘If they look like getting there,’ he said, ‘Shoot them because it might be the last thing you do.’ He said, ‘We won’t ask questions.’ Anyway, we went into this detention barracks and we were ushered in to a building which was about thirty feet wide. Probably ninety feet long and normal height of a shed. Say perhaps ten, twelve feet. Across the centre of the room there was a black line. Two inch black line that ran down the walls, across the floor and up the other wall. Now, you can imagine. You walk in there and you see this. At one end there was probably about fifty, sixty tonnes of small coal. The other end absolutely pristine walls and floor. Whitewashed. The prisoners had wheelbarrows and shovels and it was their job to shift this coal from one end to the other and then when they’d done that they scrubbed the floor and the walls. Whitewashed them. And then did the job again. Now, they were doing this probably for two or three months and they were, it was described as being stir happy. And this was the reason. They’d had one or two of the guards had been attacked with these shovels and had been seriously injured or killed and that was the reason why we were told. Now, we only had that for two days fortunately because we more or less stood back to back [laughs] watching each other’s backs and then back to the old sweeping routine. And that was for three months. Then from there I was sent out to a place called Goderich which is right on the borders. Western border of Ontario. That was a training station for twin-engined aircraft for Royal Canadian Air Force cadets. Spent three months there and then onto a place called Mountain View in Ontario to do the bombing and gunnery school. The flying was done on Mark 2 Ansons. You’ve probably seen pictures of those. And the gunnery was done with the Bollingbroke which was the Canadian version of the Blenheim 4. The turret. Have you ever seen the Blenheim gun turret?
Other: No.
RM: Most peculiar arrangement. Vertical column. And a beam pivoted on this vertical column. At one end of the beam is a seat. At the other end are two Browning pop guns. 303s. And handlebars. So when you — to operate the turret to elevate the guns or depress them you turn the handlebars like twist grips. And to turn the turret you steer it like a pushbike. So, if you were firing at aircraft up there your bottom was right down here and you’re looking up there. You’re not sitting in the chair and looking all over like did with the Fraser Nash and the other turrets. The locking ones. Anyway, we were quite interested because the first exercise that we did it was really a chastener. We had two hundred rounds each to fire. Now, what they did with the two Brownings — they put three hundred pounds in each with a dummy round of two hundred in each gun. So, the first person in to the turret, you flew in threes, first used the left hand gun. Two hundred rounds. Left it. The next person going in two hundred rounds from the right hand gun. And then the third one cleared both guns and a hundred from each. Now, the actual bullets — the tips were dipped in paint. So that when they went through the drogue, which was the target, you could see from the colour as to who hit and how many. The drogue was roughly in size a bit bigger say than the fuselage of a Hurricane or a Spit so you can see it was quite large. The first exercise was what was known as a beam target where the towing aircraft had towed the drogue on your beam two hundred yards distance. Steady. In other words you were firing at a static object. No lead necessary either way. And of course we just blazed away with these in short bursts and when we got down after the first exercise. This exercise. They gave us the number of hits. Now, believe it or believe it not at two hundred yards, steady target, no more than probably being on the gun boats — an extraordinarily good result was five percent hits. The average? Three percent. Which is amazing isn’t it? The reason? Vibration. The rigidity of the gun mountings of course allowed the guns to spray and this is one of the things where modern films and pre-modern films of aircraft fights where you see a nice line of holes being stitched across the fuselage — absolute bullshit. You were lucky if you get it off, peppered them. That was the gunnery and then we did sort of quarter cross overs and all that sort of thing. Mostly then with cameras attached to the guns. They took Cinefilms. They wouldn’t let us use live ammunition against [laughs] their aircraft. The bombing was done with Mark 2 Ansons. A very slow aircraft. And using the old fashioned Mark 9 bomb sight which was quite a Heath Robinson contraption really but it worked after a fashion. But it was designed to operate when aircraft were sort of doing their bombing runs at probably a hundred and twenty, a hundred and fifty miles an hour with very little relationship to the forthcoming four-engined aircraft. And for that reason they devised the Mark 14 bomb sight which was gyroscope labourised and it was a beautiful piece of work. But going back to what I was saying about the weather, aircraft and wind finding. With the Mark 14 bomb sight you had to put the wind velocity in. Feed it in manually. And the only other manual thing you did was fit the bomb type. Select the bomb type and it worked out the trajectory and everything. Not only that but with the plate glass, sight glass, you had the red cross with the sword and that was stabilised horizontally. So that it would, in actual fact, give you accurate bombing up to about ten degrees of bank. Whereas with a Mark 9 you couldn’t. You had to be absolutely spot on and running the thing accurately.
CB: Straight and level.
RM: Straight and level. Yes. So that was an advantage with it. And that was bombing and gunnery school. Then nav school, as I say, was at Charlottetown, PEI. Prince Edward Island. And it was there I had my first really narrow squeak. In training of all things. Now, the nav school at that time lasted for twenty weeks. At the end of ten weeks you got a seventy two hour pass. From the Friday night to the Sunday which you couldn’t do much about because by the time you got from Charlottetown on to the mainland it was time to come back again. Right out in the sticks there. You were in the boon docks. Anyway, because we had bad night flying weather in the first eight weeks of our course they decided that instead of us flying on the tenth week we would fly on our twelfth week and the next course — 97. Behind us. Two weeks behind us would fly in our place. Now, you can appreciate this obviously. We were, a group of us, were going into the local cinema and it was just getting dark. Nice bright moon. No wind. Not worth talking about. Beautiful night. When we came out of the cinema three hours later there was a forty five knot gale blowing. Now, I can visualise what I understood and if I was in the same position I might have made the same mistake. In fact, almost certainly would but the Met forecast for the whole of their four hours was light and variable winds. Now, a sprog navigator. They’d only done ten weeks. They were only half way through the course. You still, over there, only had radio bearings. Visual sightings. More or less. And astro compass. The old bubble sextant which I could never get on with to navigate with. And the first leg out probably — of course you see navigation in those, steam navigation the vital part was wind finding, direction of the wind because that meant that you would get to where you wanted to go to. Probably find wind— sort of ten knots. Well, that falls within the flight plan. Get on the next leg and then you suddenly find wind fifteen, twenty knots. Must be something wrong so you backtrack. Check all your doings and in the meantime still maintaining the same course. And eventually you think well the only thing to do is to go back to ten knots. So, you re-plot for ten knots. Come to the next turning point as you thought, make your turn and say ,with four legs ultimately, you’ll probably be getting, or getting readings of thirty knots, thirty five knots. Can’t be right. Must go back to flight plan. And at the end of the flight when you should have been back at Charlottetown if you’d sort of ignored the truth you were probably fifty, sixty nautical miles northeast of Charlottetown. Right over the main Gulf of St Lawrence. Well as I say when we came out of the cinema there was this forty five knot wind blowing. When we got back to the camp they said, ‘Course 96 report to briefing room first light.’ And they made sure that we were there at first light because they sent people around to get us up. And we were given a very quick course on how to conduct line square searches. And every available aircraft and staff pilot who were available flew us so that we did these searches over the Gulf looking for missing aircraft. Never did see any. I believe that just after we’d finished the course. Twenty weeks. And being on our way back that they found one empty dinghy out there. And I believe that in actual fact they found the wreckage of one on the coast of Labrador which is just across the other side. How many went missing we were never told. But I did find out from the archives of the Empire Air Training Scheme in Brandon near Winnipeg — that I think three crews were absolutely lost. But anyway, we measured that and as I say we came back to this country. We did, before they would turn us lose on anything, they said, ‘Right you’ve got your navigation brevets in Canada. From Charlottetown. Over the Maritimes. Where one road or one railway is a land mark. Now, you may find flying over Britain and the continent a bit different. So, before you do anything we’re going to give you three weeks intensive training on map reading.’ And we were actually posted to a lovely little station just outside Carlisle. I think it was called Longton, where we were piled in the back seats of Tiger Moths. They only had about eight of these Tigers with staff pilots there. So, as I say it was quite a small grass field and we did quite a lot of map reading and target spotting over the Midlands and the Lake District. And that was good fun actually. On one occasion we, I actually flew with a pilot. One of the staff pilots who was a little more daring than others and it was a very windy day and he said, ‘I fancy doing a trip. Do you want to come?’ So I said, ‘Yes.’ So, we took off and we were plotting our way around and the biggest rift that I calculated on that was fifty four degrees. And when we came over the airfield boundary at three hundred feet we actually landed ten feet inside the fence because the wind speed was virtually the approach speed of the Tiger. Yeah. That was quite interesting that was. Anyway, from there we went to AFU, Advanced Flying Unit and that was at Wigtown in Scotland. Halfway between Dumfries and Stranraer and that was on Ansons. Again, that was just generally getting used to flying over Britain. And then from AFU of course, straight on to OTU at Upper Heyford where we flew in Oxfords and we, more or less, we were [pause] our technique with Gee was a Gee fix every three minutes. DR after six. Six minutes. New course and again every three minutes. Every three minutes. And this was anything up to four hours. Which of course is the sort of navigation that we would be doing with the Mossies at night. And we also, we weren’t introduced to Loran until OTU and the snag there you see was the Gee would only be useful up to the Continent’s coast line. After that there was so much interference by the Germans. So much, what we called grass, that you couldn’t pick out the signal so we had to use LORAN which, curiously enough, they never did jam. It worked quite well and it worked out well over the Atlantic. Coastal command used it quite considerably. And as I say the last OTU trip we demolished a Mossie by going through the hedge and into trees on the way back with a single engine landing. Then, as I say, I’d only just started a tour before VE Day came. Just after VE Day the first thing we did were Cook’s Tours. We had two Mosquitos from each of the stations. 8 Group stations. Took off at one hour intervals during the day so that there was a route which went across northern Germany, the Ruhr valley then out more or less through the Danish border and back to home. And this was ostensibly to give us a picture of the damage which Bomber Command had done but if you bear in mind that these flights were every hour through daylight I reckon that the idea was a standing patrol just to tell the Germans we were still about. Now, at the risk of boring you here we were told that these Cook’s Tours would be a thousand feet. That’s a thousand feet above ground level obviously but George sort of took it upon himself to fly at a thousand feet. Now, the Ruhr valley is above sea level. About three hundred feet if I remember rightly. So, we were probably about seven hundred feet. Now, as I say the place was absolute rubble with steel structures. Just odd bits sticking up. Odd bits of concrete. Just like Hiroshima. And the Germans had bulldozed roads through this rubble so that they could get their troops. We were stooging along one of these roads. Sort of just ambling along at about a hundred and ninety knots. And we could see in the distance a chap ambling along with his stick and he heard us and he turned around. He recognised what we were and shook his stick at us. So, George said, ‘I’ll teach him a lesson.’ So, he sort of pulled up into a stalled turn and as he did he opened the bomb doors. Now on the B16 the bomb doors are big. Four thousand pound bomb size and from the front you can’t miss them. And this chappy, you could see, he sort of looked. Up went the stick and he was legging it down the road like mad, much to our amusement. Yeah. When it comes to low level flying though as I say our height was fifteen, twenty five feet. Clipping the grass almost. And on one occasion we were going across Wales, went down the valley and then up the other side. Big wide valley. Half way up this valley was a farmhouse and we were climbing up the slope and there was a woman pegging washing out. She obviously heard us and we could see her looking. Saw we were there and then she decided to look down and she could see us coming up and she legged it through this farmhouse. We could see her. And she ran out the other side as went over the top. Again, in those days our sense of humour was different to what it is now and as you probably [unclear] it was quite interesting. But fortunately for us — just after this 608 Squadron, the one we were on, was disbanded and we were posted to another 8 Group unit. 692 Squadron at Gransden Lodge which is just to the west of Cambridge and we, in actual fact, did one or two trips there and 692 was disbanded which meant that we were redundant aircrew. So we were sent first of all up to Blyton in Lincolnshire for re-selection board and I eventually finished up, although I’d opted for something different, on a flight mechanic engines course at Hereford. Credenhill. But there I learned all of the intricacies of the Merlin and the Pratt and Whitney Twin Wasp engine. And having finished that course I was posted to 254 torpedo Beaufighter Squadron at Langham in Norfolk. Langham, now, I believe is famous for its glass factory there which I think is on the old airfield where I became the flight tractor driver. And that’s what I stayed until I was demobbed. Now, they [pause] I could have opted to sign on with the air force. Not necessarily guaranteeing that I would fly as a navigator again but there was a pretty good chance. But in those days you had to do twenty one years for a pension which would have taken me from the age of nineteen when I joined up to forty. But you were too old to fly at thirty two. Now, as you probably appreciate after being grounded you don’t know what sort of job you’re going to get. General dogsbody usually. And the thought of eight years as dogsbody to get a pension didn’t appeal to me so I came out and I eventually finished up at teacher training college where I spent five years with a secondary mod trying to teach maths and science. And at the end of five years — because in the period between school and joining the air force I’d become an electrical trainee at the local power station so I’d got quite a good working knowledge of turbines, pumps and all that. Generators and so on. A good mechanical background. I managed to get a job as a lecturer in mechanical engineering at the local technical college on a one term temporary contract in 1954 and I was like old Bill in World War One. Unless you can find a better hole there’s no point in moving. And I eventually spent twenty eight years there and retired. Well, took voluntary redundancy in ‘82. And I’ve been a pensioner ever since. I think the Ministry of Education are busy making little plasticine models of me and sticking pins in because I’m quite expensive. Yeah. But that is that sad story of my life.
CB: Fascinating. Thank you very much. I suggest we have a break now.
RM: Yes.
CB: So, I’ll turn off.
[recording paused]
CB: So. Ken. We’ve just talked about Ken O’Dell being at Edith Weston near North Luffenham because he was also trained in America.
RM: Yeah. Now, if he was trained in America he wouldn’t necessarily be going to Grosse Ile because –
CB: He didn’t. No.
RM: He went under what was known as the Arnold Scheme and that would be usually around about Texas or somewhere like that. To one of the flying schools there with the American army and he would become an army pilot. Now, of course there would be some relevance there because the first part of their course would be for fighter aircraft. Fighter training. Single seat fighters. And this is probably where he went.
CB: Yes.
RM: Under the Arnold Scheme.
CB: His instructors were civilians.
RM: Yes. Yeah. And that did apply but not with the navy. The navy were all genuine navy types. For example, the chief petty officer who took charge of all the morning parades and what not — he had been in the American navy for eighteen years and he’d never seen the sea. Mind you, the Great Lakes, when it does get rough you do get thirty foot waves on it so it’s as good as the sea. And we can prove that because a group of us Fleet Air Arm and RAF types we hired one of these paddle steamers one Saturday night to go out on the lakes. You know, for an outing. This chief petty officer came with us. Now, admittedly it was a bit choppy but he spent all evening draped over the rail. Much to our delight. Much to our delight. Yes. Yes, he was not popular. The Americans for instance. The American navy have a very queer discipline which didn’t go with us. Very rigid. Whereas with the RAF you get a certain amount of latitude and humour. But not the Americans and for any minor misdemeanour the sort of punishment you got you went before the mast, you see and you were awarded this punishment. And that was known as square eating. Have you ever come across it?
Other: No.
RM: Ever heard of it?
Other: No.
CB: Never.
RM: Right. Now, at mealtimes because you were condemned to this you had to do a square eating. In other words [pause] that. That was square eating.
CB: So, lifting it up vertically and then pulling it, eating it horizontally.
RM: Yes. Horizontally. To eat.
CB: Into your mouth. With both knife and fork.
RM: Yes. Oh no. Usually with the fork because the Americans of course chop up their stuff.
CB: Of course. Yes.
RM: With a fork even. But if you did use the knife.
CB: Yeah.
RM: It had to be like. Now can you imagine anything more stupid? And that was the sort of typical sort of thing that you got. But the Americans, bless them, they weathered it so — good luck.
CB: Tell us about the accommodation. What did that they have?
RM: Oh, the accommodation was superb. These twin, these blocks that you see in the films. Two story blocks. Everything beautifully polished. Wood floors. The interesting thing is they had showers there and toilets. You had a single bed which was made up every morning. You know. Bullshit. And the interesting thing was the actual loos. Now, the loos were just like ordinary loos except there were no partitions [laughs] yeah. And we thought that strange. But they say you can get used to anything and it is so. Yeah.
CB: How many people? Were they, were you in dormitories?
RM: It was a dormitory. Yes. It would be about twenty — probably twenty four people. Twenty four cadets. Two sides. Twelves. Just like the dormitories you see on the films. The wartime films of the Americans. The American army of course were a bit more spartan than the navy. But everything was nice. The food though was good. Rather like the curate’s egg though. Good in parts. And you had very strange things like plum jelly with chopped celery in it and that would be a vegetable. Things like that. It was ingenious. Let’s put it that way. As I say, the discipline was very very good. If you heard the trumpet sound for the flag being lowered at the end of the day wherever you were and whatever you were doing you had to stand to attention, face the flag and salute whilst the trumpet blew. We did, in fact, there was one big navy battle that was conducted whilst I was there and I can’t for the life of me think what it was. I think it was Leyte Gulf but I’m not sure. On this particular occasion all flying stopped on this day. We were all assembled in one of the big hangars. All RAF. And five hundred of us all together. Fleet Air Arm types. All the officers there. The band. And the flags and banners and what not and we were given a very very stirring speech by the commanding officer on how good the American navy was and how brave they were and what a victory this had been. All this, that and the other. If you’d listened carefully at the back particularly with Royal Navy types, Fleet Air Arm types a series of raspberries. Yeah. Then having gone through all this marshall music we were all marched out again and continued. I remember that quite clearly.
CB: What time did you get up in the morning?
RM: Usually around about half six.
CB: And breakfast?
RM: Breakfast. Yes. You wandered over to the mess. That was one thing you didn’t parade for. You only paraded after breakfast. You know.
CB: Yeah. And what time did you go to breakfast?
RM: Usually around about half seven.
CB: And then you went for your parade. What time?
RM: About quarter past eight or so. From there disbursed to the actual flying field which — now this was quite interesting in actual fact. The main airfield at Grosse Ile didn’t have runways but it did have a huge circular patch of concrete about six hundred yards diameter so that you could land in any direction and you could land two or three aircraft side by side. Now, that was clear. All you had was hangars in the distance. And then beyond the hangars there was one vertical radio mast which was clearly visible. Now, that radio mast subtended a fraction of one degree from the field. So, you think nobody’s going to hit it. Wrong. Just before we got there some character flying solo. Chop. And the mast came down and hit the, fortunately the American seamen’s mess not the British mess and did grievous bodily damage to several of them. But nobody shed a tear from the British contingent for that. As you can gather I’m not terribly impressed with the Americans.
CB: Were the Americans training their people in similar numbers to yours or what was the situation?
RM: I don’t know what the navy situation was because this was the American navy base. And it was only RAF and Royal Navy.
CB: Oh was it? Training.
RM: Training.
CB: Right.
RM: Yeah. So, they must have had other bases. Probably in California and on the coast and so on. But we didn’t know anything about those and didn’t want to know anything about those.
CB: No. Tell us a bit more about these people who were first generation Americans. What sort of people were they and what was their attitude to the war?
RM: The one. My instructor and I only came across him really was a chappy who was a naturalised Dutchman with the rather curious name of Nieswander. Not spelt exactly as we’d pronounce it. N I E S W A N D E R. Now, he was, as a say, a naturalised Dutchman. First generation. And about six feet two, physique rather like a beanpole and of course like all of these other characters he had a chip on his shoulder. He wanted to be a fighter pilot. He was going to be a fighter pilot. Bugger this job sort of business. And he was, I suppose, fairly interested in teaching people to fly but you could sense and even it was expressed sort of rather obliquely to you by him that he wanted to go into the war zone but he was not allowed to.
CB: No.
RM: All of the pilots and this, of course, I think this also applied to the army pilots that they were not allowed to go into the warzone so they could either go on to training but curiously enough — transport. Cargo and all that sort of thing. And some of these cargo flights actually took them into the war zone. But they weren’t equipped with guns and what not so they couldn’t fight. Yeah.
CB: And what ranks were these people who were your instructors?
RM: Oh, practically all lieutenants. Junior grade.
CB: Right.
RM: Which would be equivalent to our POs. Pilot officers. Now, the interesting thing was there that in the RAF of course with commissioned and non-commissioned ranks you got upgrading in rank at given periods of time with aircrew and what not. Not so with the Americans. And I daresay that I was there, what, 1943. I daresay that in 1945 when the war finished he would still be a lieutenant. General. GJ. Lieutenant junior grade.
CB: And what rank were you at that time? An LAC were you?
RM: An LAC yes. Got, oh — Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, where I got y brevet. The Wings Parade there. Now that was in July. And we were all drawn up. We’d finished our training satisfactorily and I was assigned the rank of sergeant. We did get about three or four commissions straight away but mostly sergeant rank. And we were drawn up 2.30 in the afternoon on the parade ground there at Charlottetown and we were addressed by the Governor General of Prince Edward Island after we’d been given our brevets. And this gentleman to us, at that time, we estimated his age at eighty. He was old anyway. He was quite short and apparently, he was deaf. His aide de camp was an army type, lieutenant, who stood about six feet two and this Governor General was making a speech which lasted in total about fifteen minutes. And in the speech, he congratulated us on being — becoming pilots with the Royal Air Force. Went on in this vein and his aide de camp, his aid, was nudging him. Almost to tell him. You know, we could see it happening but he ploughed on and at the end of it the aide de camp had a real chat with him. Now we were standing to attention. Blazing sun.
CB: July. Yes.
RM: And by this time our tunics were turning black with perspiration. And what does the silly old bugger do? Once he’d been told that we were navigators he went through exactly the same speech and substituted the word navigators.
CB: Yes.
RM: Now, if any of us had had a gun we’d have shot him. Without any doubt. He was definitely not the flavour of the month. I had, I have never ever been so hot because of course the Canadians had the lightweight summer gear. Khaki. Like the Americans. What did we have? Blue serge. We never had any and those blue serge uniforms were quite warm. Yeah. We could have shot him quite cheerfully.
CB: Yeah.
RM: But –
CB: Now the Canadians. Excuse me. I’m going to stop a mo.
[Recording paused]
CB: So, let’s just talk about the Canadians.
RM: The Canadians except for the French Canadians in Quebec were charming people. Now, as far as the Americans are concerned — individually very charming. We had individual hospitality through their USOs where you go and have a weekend with a family and so on. Superb hospitality. But when you get them in a group you’re on a different planet. Terry Thomas had the best description of a group of Americans. Remember his –?
Other: No. I remember him but not –
RM: Described an absolute shower. Yeah. And we found that afterwards actually when my first wife and I went across to the Continent in the early 60s. On the ferry we bumped into a bunch of Americans. Loud mouthed. Uncouth. But if you separated them they were quite charming to talk to. Now, the Canadians — much more reserved but just as genuine and I made quite a few friends there except at Charlottetown. Which — there’s a joke about Charlottetown actually which was very true at that time and the joke goes like — that in summer they raise potatoes and in winter children. Now, they still had prohibition there when we were there. That would be in late ’43, early ‘44. And apparently, prohibition stopped only perhaps twenty years ago so consequently the local inhabitants made their own alcoholic drinks by filtering off brasso and stuff like that or using rubbing alcohol. And the weekend before we got there. Two of the erks off the station because there were RAF aircrew there had purloined from the stores a quart of glycol, mixed it with orange juice and two of the local popsies and these two had a beano at the weekend. On the Monday morning the two popsies were dead, one of the erks was in sick quarters blind and the other one was rather non compos mentis. And both of them by the time we got there at the next weekend were on the boat home to Britain. That’s the sort of thing they got up to. As far as I can remember with Charlottetown you had large numbers of children who did the same sort of thing as a lot of the children you see where troops are concerned, and where the Americans are concerned. You know. Chocolates. They wanted chocolates and sweets or whatever and I was not impressed. Nothing would tempt me to go back there again even though it has changed apparently. The Maritimes, the western provinces, New Brunswick and so on — very sparsely populated and very uninterested. The only thing with them is trees, more trees and even more trees with roads, odd roads going through. Nah.
CB: Now when you were flying in Canada —
RM: Yeah.
CB: Were the instructors all Canadians? Were they British? What were they?
RM: A lot of them were RAF seconded over there. What happened, say take twin engine aircraft. You get the RAF sent over there — say to Estevan. He would do his course. The few people at the top of the course, the really high flyers would be retained.
CB: The creamies.
RM: As instructors and would do a full tour. Now, this has a bearing actually on George, my pilot and 8 Group. Now, all 8 Group Mossie pilots had to have at least a thousand hours on twin engines and the twin engines were mostly of course Oxfords which handled apparently rather like a Mossie. Either that or they were tour expired Lancasters. But you didn’t get anybody who just got his wings becoming a Mosquito pilot. Now that was just 8 Group. I don’t know what happened with 5 Group or 2 Group which were the other two groups that I remember being a part of Bomber Command. And it worked. It worked quite well. There were Canadian instructors obviously. RCAF. That is, if they hadn’t been posted to Britain which they were. I mean, they were coming over. When it comes to going over to Canada and the States I travelled on the Queen Elizabeth and it was like a mill pond and of course the Lizzie and the Mary were run by the Americans. They were handed over to the Americans and based at New York. And typically from New York they would come across to Glasgow — Greenock, with a division of American troops. Eighteen to twenty thousand troops on. They would unload them. They would then load returning Americans or returning Canadians and all RAF aircrew that were going for training. Royal Navy and so on. Roughly about five thousand at a time. And they would go to Halifax. At Halifax they would discharge and pick up a Canadian division. Bring those back and then you’d have aircrew that were going to the United States on the Arnold Scheme and people like that. Returning Americans going back to New York. And that’s how they did it. Now, going over there the actual mess deck had tables for twelve diners. Twelve people. And the cooks cooked in batches of twelve and you had, each day, one person went from the table to the mess. The cooks collected a tray say, of twelve steaks. Twelve chops. Now, when I say steaks — American steaks. Not British steaks which were postage stamp sized. But these were genuine. Genuine pork chops. Sausages. Those twelve helpings came to the table. Now, we got on to the QE in Greenock at midnight. The engines were running. There was a bit of vibration there. We sailed on the first tide which was about 6 o’clock in the morning. Just breaking day. We had to go to breakfast around about 7.30 again. And of course, we collected this tray. There were only four of us on the table. The other, sorry, six of us on the table. The other six were in their bunks seasick and we hadn’t even hit the Atlantic. Anyway, we got out onto the Atlantic and it was like a mill pond. There were six the first day, six missing the second day, four missing the third day. And we ate like lords. You know, God, we thought, you know, this is marvellous. We really ate. And these steaks and that were beautiful. Couldn’t grumble at that. And on the last morning they did manage to come down for breakfast before we disembarked. But one interesting thing. Each of us was given a job. The job that I was given was to go from the main stores with one of the American seamen to actually re-store or re-stock the canteens. Chocolate and so on. Which was quite a — not a very onerous job. Over and done with in an hour and that was it. But this American seaman I was with he said, ‘Have you got any currency you want changing?’ So I said, ‘Well, you’re not allowed to bring any currency out. Only ten pounds.’ He said, ‘Well,’ he said, ‘Supposing you got a bit more than that?’ He said, ‘Would you like it changed?’ He said. So I said, ‘Changed to what?’ He said, ‘Dollars. American.’ Now in 1939 the pound was worth four dollars American and four forty dollars.
CB: Canadian.
RM: To the Canadian. So you had this ten percent difference. So, I said, ‘Well, what’s your exchange rate?’ He said, ‘Well. For you it’ll be four dollars to the pound.’ So I said, ‘Well, it so happens,’ I said, ‘I’ve been a bit naughty. I’ve brought an extra tenner out. Twenty. I got twenty pounds changed into American dollars which, interestingly of course if you spent them in Canada which they were spendable — for ten dollars you’d pay the American ten dollars and get a dollar change. So, it worked out quite well. But the — I was talking to this seaman and I said, ‘We seem to be going at a fair old lick.’ I said, ‘What’s it doing?’ He said, ‘Well, I shouldn’t tell you.’ He said, ‘It’s more than my job’s worth.’ So, I said, ‘Go on. Nobody’s listening.’ He said, ‘Well,’ he said, ‘We’re cruising at twenty nine knots.’ But one night I woke up. It was only about 2 o’clock in the morning and the boat, you could tell from the vibration that they’d definitely sort of upped the steam but when we went to breakfast we were back to the twenty nine knots. So, I said to this chap, I said, ‘What happened last night?’ ‘Nothing very much,’ he said. So I said, ‘Go on,’ ‘You’re pulling my leg,’ I said, ‘You were going a lot faster.’ I said, ‘What speed were you doing?’ He said, ‘Thirty four knots,’ he said, ‘There was a sub scare.’ Now, of course the two Queens were unescorted but imagine this. A six inch gun fore and aft on the bow and the stern. On the main deck — Bofors and three inch guns. On the deck above you had Oerlikon cannons.
CB: Twenty millimetre.
RM: Yeah. Twenty millimetre. And on the roof you actually had two rocket launchers. So, as far as aircraft were concerned which of course would be the main thing they would have given them a very rough time. And on the second day they tried the guns out, you know, just to make sure they were working. And they did them one side and then the other. A big rocket flare went up, parachute flare, and they all opened up on this and it was quite deafening. Except the big six inch guns. They didn’t. But everything else —
CB: How many days did it take to get over?
RM: Four days and eight hours. As I say we lived like lords. Coming back. We came back on one of the old Empress boats. It was the Empress of Japan but it had been re-named the Empress of Scotland for obviously patriotic reasons. That took six days and a half. And on that they only had two meals a day. Not three. Now, you can believe this or believe it not. Going out the canteen had run dry so there was nothing on the way back. The first morning, I forget exactly which way around it was but this was the sort of thing. We had smoked haddock for breakfast. The evening meal — wiener sausages. Then for a change wiener sausages for breakfast. Smoked haddock. And we had that for six days. There was no sweets. No fruit available. And we were not in a happy mood. And then when we got into Liverpool Bay the boat had to anchor there for twelve hours before we could dock. And we could see the shoreline. People moving about. There would be restaurants there. And there we were. Stuck. We were not a happy crew. Funnily enough when we came back we had a full customs inspection. And you were allowed two hundred cigarettes, a bottle of Scotch say, or a spirit and a bottle of wine. The chappy in front of me, customs bloke ‘cause we were all queuing up, customs said to the chap. ‘Any cigarettes?’ Expecting two hundreds. The chappy in front said, ‘Six hundred.’ The customs officer looked at him and he said, ‘Surely you mean two hundred?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘I’ve got six hundred.’ ‘Oh. Well, that’ll bloody well cost you then.’ [laughs] I mean how thick can you get? Dear. Oh, it was. I must say that in spite of our, got one, two or three near squeaks I can look back on my war service and it’s quite interesting. Very varied. And I met some jolly nice people.
CB: How many of those did you keep in contact with after the war?
RM: I kept in contact with my pilot up to a time and then I lost contact with him. The chappy that I was at the Toronto manning depot with we split up but I traced him afterwards. After we’d become civilians. And found out that he’d actually joined the Toronto Metropolitan Police. Been with them for ten years and then he’d left there and joined the Pinkertons.
CB: Right. In America.
RM: Now, I always thought that the Pinkertons was a mythical organisation and I was put severely in my place when Gordon — eventually I went over there in ‘86 and stayed with him and his wife. When I said that I thought it was mythical he said, ‘We’re international,’ he said, ‘We’re interested, more or less in industrial espionage and things like that,’ he said. ‘We’re not interested in police work.’ So, I was really put in my place there. Yeah. And my pilot. He died. Had a heart attack around about 1982 if I remember rightly going on a fishing trip from Vancouver to Nanaimo. Vancouver Island. And he died on the ferry. Had a heart attack.
CB: Was he a Canadian?
RM: No. He was a Londoner. But he had gone across to the States — to Canada. Done his pilot training, become an instructor at Estevan and while he was there he met his wife who was the daughter of a newspaper owner in Langley which is just outside Vancouver. And of course as soon as he was demobbed he shot off to Canada because he got free passage there. Free ticket back home. Yeah.
CB: I’ll stop there for a bit. Thank you.
[recording paused]
CB: Right. We’re now re-starting after a short break and we’re with Dick Maywood and talking now about LMF.
RM: LMF. Lack of moral fibre which was a euphemistic way of referring to cowardice. It was not unknown with, particularly Bomber Command crews that some of them lost their nerve. In fact it’s a wonder that they didn’t all lost their nerves on heavies. Anyway, if they were accused and if they did succumb to lack of moral fibre they more or less had a courts martial and were almost certainly stripped of all rank.
CB: Physically.
RM: Yes. And –
CB: In front of — sorry go on –
RM: They were also treated to so many months in the Glasshouse which was at Sheffield. And everybody knew. All their crew knew of Sheffield and what it entailed. And fortunately, from my point of view I mean flying in the Mossie was safe. I mean not like the heavies. Because the chop rate even in 1944/45 on heavies was still quite considerable. But on Mossies I think it worked out, on 8 Group Mossies something like about half a percent. But one thing that did strike me with that ‘casue in the Mossie, being wood, low thermal conductivity. Radiators between the engines and the fuselage on both sides with air bleeds. Sealed cockpits. We flew in battle dress. No gloves. But we did have the escape boots just in case we had to escape. That was it. And we had our own sidearms. In my case a .38 revolver and it was only about three years ago it that it suddenly dawned on me. Twenty five thousand feet. If we had been hit and had had to bale out we would have been dead. Lack of oxygen and cold because, I mean, the outside air temperature was around about minus sixty. Minus seventy. And apparently about thirty six seconds of that and its good night nurse. It was a good job we didn’t think about that otherwise we might have gone LMF. But no, I have the utmost sympathy because one or two of my friends I know have had a very sticky patch. One I was with yesterday he is ex-Bomber Command Lanc and he was telling a friend that on one occasion they had a twenty millimetre shell, or, no, it couldn’t have been twenty millimetre. It must have been bigger than that. Go in to the Lanc and lodge in the ironmongery and not explode. And Dennis said that they sort of fished this thing out and dropped it out. And the chap who was talking to him and said, yeah, ‘Didn’t it explode then?’ And Dennis said words to the effect, ‘You’re rather stupid. If it had exploded I wouldn’t be here.’ How silly can people get? It’s, but it’s surprising really. When it comes to the old Mossie they talk about the wooden wonder. They’ve heard of the wooded wonder vaguely. No idea what it did really. Couldn’t be very interesting because it’s made of wood. And when you consider it was the first RAF multi role combat aircraft. You had your weather versions. You had the oboe versions. You had the PR Unit versions. Night fighter units. You had the Coastal Command Banff Wing which for a time had those Tsetse Mosquitoes with the 57 millimetre gun and I know one or two of the 247 Squadron even now who flew in those. And one in particular and he said that every time one of those guns went off you lost twenty knots airspeed with the recoil. But they didn’t last long because they found that a battery of eight rockets, sixty pound rockets was a better bet than the Tsetse gun. That was known as the Banff wing. There was 235 and 247 Squadrons in the Banff Wing. Anti-shipping. You had second TAF who flew fighter bombers. That’s guns, cannons and two bombs in each and that would probably be either on interdiction, road transport, railways and what not. You had the night intruders. Now, had the war had gone on longer it would have satisfied my sense of humour to get on night intruders. Because I loved the idea of sort of just dropping an odd bomb on the runway as they were about to land or shooting the buggers down. Pardon my broken English. Shooting them down. It would have appealed to my sense of humour but no. No. But there we are.
CB: So, you talked about flying at very low level.
RM: Yes.
CB: Tell to us a little more about that. I mean we’re talking about being low indeed.
RM: Yeah.
CB: However you look at it. And what about the excitement and the danger? Or the other way around.
RM: Well excitement. Yes. Particularly when we were doing low level bombing because I’d be prone in the bomb bay looking out the window. The Mark 14 bomb sight was useless because it was a high level job. And they hadn’t got a low level bombsight so it was all done with Mark 1 eyeballs. Now we had a bombing range out at Whittlesea. Well, just the other side of Whittlesea. And flying PPL I often had a scout around there to find out where the field was and I couldn’t find it but this was a big square field with the target in the centre. Now, literally to go we were flying over trees and down again. That was, we were sort of doing. The reason for it was quite simple. We were told the lower — you were going out to the Far East. A lot of jungle. Clearings. The lower you fly the less time you’ll be a target for ground gunners. So, the closer you can get to the treetops and the ground the safer you’ll be. And as I say, fortunately George was extremely good at low flying. Quite interesting actually. If we were bombing on east west run we’d come in low level and then at the end of the run we’d do a slow climb up to about fifteen hundred feet and then do a turn, reciprocal, back down to height again and bomb in the reverse direction and when we were on that run. On the east west run. Our turn to go reciprocal was always over Peterborough Town Bridge. It was super you know. Sort of down there. Yes. Home.
CB: Now, what about navigating when you’re — because your vista is very restricted when you’re flying low. So how did you deal with the navigation in that context?
RM: That was extremely difficult because as you say your range of vision is restricted so you have to absolutely do the correct thing. You look out and you see on the map where you are. The common mistake with map reading is to look at the map and say, ‘Oh that must be it,’ Because as you are probably well aware it is in actual fact, it’s very easy to do that. To convince yourself but I’ve been ferried over the last two or three years on what was known as Project Propeller. And I have, I’ve had a variety of pilots and I’ve flown as passenger with them and quite interestingly I am deadly against wind — so called wind turbines. And I cannot convince the BBC or the papers just what a waste of money they are. But these wind farms shown on air maps are extremely accurate.
CB: Are they?
RM: And they make bloody good landmarks because they actually show the arrangement of them.
CB: Oh right.
RM: So, you can see an arrangement and you can look at the map. Well we must be there. But of course in those days we didn’t. And again, you see, over the jungle as far as I can make out fortunately we were three weeks from going out to the east with the B35s.
CB: Oh.
RM: Which was the later version of the B16. We were within three weeks and VJ day came. Now I cannot stand hot humid weather. Whether it’s a throwback to the Wings Parade with the Governor General or not I do not know but I just cannot stand it and the thought of going out there. I would have been a grease spot.
CB: Yeah.
RM: A grease spot. Yeah.
CB: Just picking up on the navigation.
RM: But it would be with maps.
CB: Yes but —
RM: And dead reckoning.
CB: Yes. Well, I was going to say you use IPs. identification points. Would you put more of those in?
RM: Oh yes. You’d put them on the map because you’d probably, you’d be looking for them on the course. And as I say you take the ground on to the map not the map to the ground. Yeah.
CB: Now, going back to what you were talking about before we started taping you talked about the three mishaps that you had. So, what were they?
RM: Right. The first one was at Navigation School at Charlottetown and that was the fact that due to bad weather we missed the bad weather which was not forecast for the people who flew in our place. So, they got lost and I’m pretty sure that if we had flown on that night and we’d been given that Met forecast — winds light and variable which would take as zero for navigation purposes. It might have been a case of there but by the God go.
CB: Yes. You might also have vanished.
RM: Yes. Yes.
CB: Yeah. In the Great Lake.
RM: No. The Gulf of St Lawrence.
CB: Oh, in the Gulf of St Lawrence sorry. Ok. Next one.
RM: That was the first one.
CB: Ok.
RM: Then at OTU on the return trip from France where we had to land on one engine. They put us on the shortest runway with no wind and of course we vanished through the hedge with rather dire consequences to the Mossie. But — and then the third narrow squeak we had was of course the first time we took off with a four thousand pound live bomb and we got off ten knots slower than we should have done.
CB: Now, the Mossie could take four thousand pounds.
RM: Yes.
CB: But it was just in this particular case. What happened?
RM: Well, we, we — it took us longer to maintain, to achieve height than it should have done. Let’s put it that way. There was considerable chance that if the engines had even stuttered under those conditions on take-off we would have wiped out half of Downham Market.
CB: Was it because of the wind? You took off with the wind? Or what was it that caused it?
RM: Oh, we always took off in to wind.
CB: I know but in this particular case why was it?
RM: George didn’t say very much but I think the engines were not producing as much as he expected or the flaps were not right or something like that but I was too busy then actually during take-off. Getting all the charts ready and getting ready to —
CB: Where were you going that day?
RM: We were going to a place called Eggbeck which was one of the satellite airfields for Kiel. The Kiel Canal in Denmark. And it must have been the name of an airfield because I’ve looked and I’ve actually been in that area. Motored in that area for quite some distance and never found a place called Eggbeck. But it must have been one of the fields which was known as that. Yeah. And that was the one and only.
CB: Right.
RM: I’m afraid. Much to my annoyance. I was really savage when VE day came along, you know.
CB: Yeah. I imagine.
RM: I wanted to get my teeth into the Germans. But these things happen. But as I say afterwards we did the Cook’s Tour. We did quite a few what were known as Bullseyes. Have you come across those?
CB: Yes. Would you like to describe that?
RM: Yeah. Bullseyes were exactly the same conditions you would fly an actual operation. The only difference was at the target area e didn’t drop a bomb. We took a photograph to prove that we were there and we got there on time. Now, to give you an idea of the difference because as I say we had the Lancaster squadron. 635 Squadron at Downham Market and on bullseyes we both did the same route. Now, the Lancaster chaps would go in for their evening meal, would go to briefing and would be taking off as we were getting ready to go to the mess for our evening meal. Our evening meal, briefing, take off. Fly the same route. Be on target at the same time. On the way back we would land, be debriefed and would be having our breakfast when the Lancs were coming in. So two hour difference. Solely due to speed. But here I can give you something which is even more interesting. The American B17, the Flying Fortress. Nine crew. Fourteen guns. Four engines. Bomb load to Berlin four thousand pounds exactly. Out and return nine hours. Now, our Mossies on 608 Squadron, 692 and the other ones on the, what we called the Milk Run. The Berlin run. Out and return time four and a half hours. Now, admittedly with the American the B17s there was time taken up getting into formation and breaking formation on the way back but a lot of people don’t realise with the Americans in daylight, they couldn’t fly at night. They couldn’t navigate. They didn’t know how. They flew in daylight. Formation. Now, they carried a master navigator and a master bomber and I think usually two deputies just in case. They’re in formation. When the lead aircraft dropped his bombs they all dropped theirs. So, what they were doing in actual fact was carpet bombing. Admittedly they’d blanket the target. They would hit the target but that would be covering an area. Now, of course Bomber Command was specific on target markers. You bombed a target and all of the aircraft bombed that target. Not just one or two. So, as I say the American B17 crews were very brave. Much braver than I’d be, I think, under those circumstances to fly in daylight, level thirty thousand feet. Fighter fodder. No doubt. Yeah. Whereas the old Mossie. You couldn’t describe [pause] they did, the Germans did do us an honour. I think it was the Henschel 219 but I’m not sure where it was designed as a two engine night fighter specifically to counter Mosquitoes.
CB: Was it really?
RM: And that was the biggest compliment they could pay us. Then of course the jets came along and that was a different matter. They could sort of commit mayhem. But the interesting thing was that on the raid that we were doing on Eggbeck we were going out and near the target one of the aircraft called out, ‘Snappers,’ and that was the code name for the fact that 262s were about.
CB: Right.
RM: But nobody got lost that night. So –
CB: Messerschmitt 262 jets.
RM: Yeah.
CB: Yes.
RM: I mean they were serious opponents those. The 30 millimetre cannon for a start. I mean you don’t argue with those. Yeah.
CB: What was your operating speed?
RM: Our normal cruising airspeed out was around about two hundred and thirty knots. But that was indicated air speed. I mean at twenty five thousand feet the true airspeed would probably be somewhere in the region of three hundred knots which was covering the ground fairly well. If we went flat out the highest ground speed that I ever recorded was four hundred and ten miles an hours. And that was without trying.
CB: Now, what was the pattern of your operation? Because you were much faster than the Lancasters so you took off late but you had to be there first so how did you do that?
RM: Well the oboe aircraft had to be first. And then the Mosquitoes that carried additional marker bombs would be on target more or less at the same time and they would be listening to the oboe.
CB: Which was the master bomber.
RM: Or the ground. Master bomber. Advising them where to drop their new flares.
CB: Right.
RM: Whether they’d drop them short, long, east or west and so on to correct the error. And then of course by this time the main force Lancs and Mossies would be coming up on the scene but in a lot of cases with 8 Group the light night striking force actually operated on different targets. These targets were designed to be diversionary to lure night fighters away so that they didn’t know whether to go for the Lancs or us and in that case you’d probably get about anything from forty to fifty Mossies attacking quite a valuable target. Yeah.
CB: Now, you talked about twenty five thousand feet. Was that your normal operating height?
RM: Yes. That was normal.
CB: Or did it vary much?
RM: It didn’t vary much. Anything from twenty five — twenty eight thousand. The oboe Mossies, of course, they went up to thirty seven thousand feet.
CB: Oh did they. Right.
RM: Because of course the radio waves were line of sight and at that height they could just get the Ruhr. And of course, the Ruhr was the main complex of the German war industry and after, in ’43 onwards it was systematically demolished with oboe and and with precision bombing. Yeah. As I say the whole area was completely derelict. There was nothing there.
CB: What was your most abiding memory of your experience in the war?
RM: Well, it may sound silly to you but the thing which stuck in my throat more than anything was catching mumps. I mean it was so demeaning. Orchitis. Which, of course is the classic symptoms of that. It’s not pretty and it’s painful and to catch that at nineteen years of age. It was a chance complaint and that, that really stuck with me more than anything. Yes. But that’s the way the cookie crumbles.
CB: Yes.
RM: I suppose in a way what with that and the fact that I got washed off pilots case and the fact we hit bad weather at Nav School. With the time I lost. If it hadn’t been for that I might not be here.
CB: But you might have done all sorts of other things. Operationally.
RM: I might have finished up on heavies with a much heavier chop rate. Yeah.
CB: Just going back to the American training experience. In essence it was to train for flying boats so that –
RM: Yes.
CB: What aircraft did they have in that area working on the lake?
RM: They didn’t. The Grosse Ile was the aircraft carrier part of the navy.
CB: Ah right.
RM: And once they’d completed that you then went down to Pensacola.
CB: Right.
RM: And the Gulf of Florida and converted on to Catalinas.
CB: Right.
RM: Now the interesting thing is that for many years RAF — the RAF Museum at Cosford encapsulated my wartime flying experience very very neatly. They had Canso, which was a Canadian built Catalina because it had a retractable undercarriage whereas the Catalina didn’t. And alongside it was a Mossie B35 which, to all intents and purposes, apart from an astro dome was the same, exactly the same as our B16s. And these were side by side. Now, nobody knew about me there so it was purely chance but I gather now that last year that they actually split them up into two different hangars. Which is a shame.
CB: Changing the subject a bit —
RM: Yes.
CB: A Mosquito is very cramped inside. Or is it? For the navigator? And how did you operate?
RM: Well, I was a lot slimmer than I am now. The amount of room we had. My seat was about that wide. In front of me we had a dashboard with a dropdown table for the maps and what not on. We were actually sitting on the main spar and the pilot’s seat was just in front of the main spar. Now, just here —
CB: In front of you.
RM: In front of me and to the left hand side would be the console with the undercarriage and flaps.
CB: Throttles.
RM: And throttles. For the pilot. Right handed. In front of me, underneath the dashboard would be the opening which I would go through to get into the bomb bay.
CB: Go in legs first.
RM: No. Head first.
CB: Right.
RM: Yeah. Because you had to be facing the front. Yeah. You could only go in head first. There was no room to do a hundred and eighty.
CB: Yeah.
RM: It’s very cosy. The pilot –he had roughly the same amount of room and all the gubbins in front of him and to his left. We were both slimmer and we could both get in. Now, the B, the bomber versions — you went in underneath. It had a floor entry. Like the prototype in South Mimms Museum. The fighter bomber versions had a side exit or entry and that was just aft of the propellers. About nine to twelve inches behind the propellers and in the event of getting out you had to go in. Go out head first facing the rear to make sure you didn’t get mixed up and come out as mincemeat. Yeah. They had a ladder which stowed in the aircraft that you climbed up. You went in facing backwards and then turned around. The pilot went in first, of course to get into his seat. Now, he would have a seat type parachute. We had just the harness and we had the parachute stowed down by the right hand side so that if we had to get out we could just pick it up, clip it on and out.
CB: So, if you had to get out are you going to go out through the canopy or through the floor?
RM: Oh you didn’t go out through the canopy except as we did when we crash landed at [unclear] when it was stationary. If you went out through the canopy you had a jolly good chance of being chopped in half with the rudder. So, you always went out the escape hatch at the bottom. Yes. It would be a very foolhardy thing to go out the top. Yeah. That was quite interesting now you’ve come to mention it. When we were at Gransden Lodge we were doing, going up on an air test actually and we got up to about ten thousand feet and all of a sudden there was a hell of a bang and a lot of rubbish and what not flying about and George said, ‘Get ready to jump.’ So, I sort of put the parachute on and he said, ‘Oh.’ he said, ‘The aircraft seems to be flying all right,’ he said, ‘I thought the front had gone in.’ You know, the nose, with all the rubbish and what not. We were looking around. Couldn’t see anything wrong. And then we looked up and we found that the top hatch had blown off. And of course the vacuum, the sort of [unclear] effect too place all the rubbish in the bomb bay had come out and he said just said, just tried it and he said, ‘The chances are it’s probably altered the stalling speed a bit.’ So instead of carrying on with the climb he played about and found out exactly how the aircraft handled at a hundred and twenty knots which was the normal approach speed and he found it was probably about a hundred and thirty knots with the extra drag. And so, we aborted and came back and landed. There was quite a hullabaloo, you know. ‘How come you lost that hatch?’ Well, one of those things. Yeah. They didn’t charge us for it [laughs] 664B. I take it you know what 664B was.
CB: No. Tell us. Tell us for the tape.
RM: 664B action was to re-claim from your wages.
CB: Yeah.
RM: The money for whatever it was that you’d lost, stolen or strayed. Yeah. A lot of people for instance lost their wristwatches and went on 664B because you could get a Rolex for around about six pounds ten shillings. The Longines. I had actually had a Longines wristwatch. We were issued with watches. I don’t know whether you realise this or not but we had, were equipped with aircrew watches and we had to rate them and adjust them so that they lost no more or gained no more than two seconds a day. Now, that stems from the vital necessity of having exact time to the second when you’re doing astro shots. Because one second in time can mean about a quarter of a mile in position. And for instance Coastal Command types. The Catalinas and the old Flying Boats.
CB: The Sunderlands.
RM: The Sunderland. If they were returning and they had very poor radio signals. Very few Astra shots. And could not be absolutely certain of their landfall because of the astro shots and wrong time. A few seconds. I mean a quarter of a mile could mean the difference between getting into a fjord or a bay or hitting the land at the side of it. So it was vitally important that you got the time down to a second. It wouldn’t have mattered now because course cards. So accurate. But of course with the spring you actually had to adjust them. Now, the first watch I had we were equipped with these at navigation school at Charlottetown. The first one I had was a Waltham. An American which was quite well thought of. But I just could not get it closer than about five seconds no matter how I tried. And after two weeks they said, ‘Right. That’s no use.’ So, I took it back and got a Longines and within a week I’d got that sorted out and it worked quite well. And kept that right the way through and stupidly I handed that in when I was demobbed. Because as I said 664B I could have had it for six pounds fifty. Six pounds.
CB: Even in those days.
RM: Another thing. Another thing too which I bitterly resent or regret handing in was my sunglasses. Now, they were Ray-Ban. Green. They were superb for sun. want a pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses now. Ninety quid. Ridiculous isn’t it? They would have cost about three pounds.
Other: Yeah.
RM: On 664B.
CB: You talked about astro shots. You talked about astro shots so where would you put the sextant. Could you hang it on the —?
RM: Yes, you hung it in the astro dome.
CB: Yeah.
RM: Now, you can turn this off because I’m going to be in trouble.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Dick Maywood
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Chris Brockbank
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2015-11-09
Type
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Sound
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AMaywoodRM151109
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Pending revision of OH transcription
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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02:21:54 audio recording
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Herefordshire
England--Norfolk
England--Oxfordshire
England--Lincolnshire
Scotland--Aberdeenshire
England--Leicestershire
Canada
Ontario
Ontario--Goderich
Alberta
Prince Edward Island
Prince Edward Island--Charlottetown
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Ontario--Belleville
Temporal Coverage
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1944
1945
1945-05-08
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Sally Coulter
Description
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Dick was born in Peterborough and volunteered for the Royal Air Force in 1941. He was called up to Lord’s Cricket Ground in 1942. Dick went to No. 6 Initial Training Wing at Aberystwyth. He then went to RAF Desford, flying Tiger Moths and was selected for further pilot training. After Heaton Park, Dick volunteered for the flying boat course and flew on Stearman N254s at Grosse Isle in the United States. He returned to Canada, initially to Windsor where he was re-selected as a navigator air bomber. He was sent to Goderich and then Mountain View to the bombing and gunnery school on Mark 2 Ansons and the Bolingbroke. He gained his brevet at Navigation School in Charlottetown on Prince Edward Island.
Dick underwent intensive map training on his return and went to the Advanced Flying Unit in Wigtown on Ansons. He proceeded to the Operational Training Unit at RAF Upper Heyford on Oxfords, where he was introduced to Loran. He had just started a tour as a Mosquito Pathfinder navigator before VE Day. He describes the aircraft, Oboe, and the pattern of their operations. Dick participated in Cook’s Tours to the Ruhr Valley. He was in 608 Squadron but it was disbanded and so he was posted to 692 Squadron, another Group 8 unit, at RAF Gransden Lodge. This was also disbanded, and Dick was sent to RAF Blyton for a re-selection board where he was sent on a flight mechanic engines course at RAF Credenhill. He was posted to the 254 torpedo Beaufighter Squadron at Langham until he was demobilised.
608 Squadron
692 Squadron
8 Group
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
B-17
Beaufighter
Bolingbroke
Cook’s tour
flight engineer
Gee
Initial Training Wing
Master Bomber
Me 262
military living conditions
military service conditions
Mosquito
navigator
Oboe
Oxford
Pathfinders
perception of bombing war
RAF Banff
RAF Blyton
RAF Credenhill
RAF Desford
RAF Downham Market
RAF Gransden Lodge
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Upper Heyford
sanitation
Stearman
Tiger Moth
training
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/613/8882/PMottersheadN1504.1.jpg
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/613/8882/AMotterheadN150719.2.mp3
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Mottershead, Bluey
Nevil Mottershead
N Mottershead
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Mottershead, N
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Squadron Leader 'Bluey' Mottershead DFC (b. 1922, Royal Air Force) and a photograph. He flew operations as a pilot with 158 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-19
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AM: Ok. So this interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is me, Annie Moody and the interviewee is Bluey Mottershead. And the interview is taking place at Mr Mottershead’s home in Brailsford on the 19th of July 2015. So, off you go. Tell me a little bit about your, your childhood.
NM: Yes.
AM: And leading up to why you decided to join the RAF, Bluey?
NM: Well, I was born on a farm in Shropshire. I was the sixth child of my parents but they had lost two previous to me arriving on the scene and therefore, when I arrived I was treated something special. And that special has been with me all my life. And my best friend from my youth, in my youth, was also, had joined the Royal Air Force for aircrew duties and he was in a place called Honington. On a live station in Suffolk. And while they were taking a NAAFI break a bomber came over, dropped a bomb, hit the NAAFI and killed four of them. And then thereafter I was stood in the churchyard of my village while they were burying him. There went the past and so —
AM: What age would you be then Bluey?
NM: Eighteen.
AM: You were eighteen.
NM: And so, when it came around to the January after Christmas I thought I have got to go and revenge for my friend. And so, on the 18th — on the 8th of January 1942 I went to Shrewsbury and signed up for aircrew duties and I became nineteen at the end of that particular week. And so I was sent home on what they called deferred service following the medicals that I had at Shrewsbury and going to Cardington for forty eight hours to have the medicals there. And when I returned I received this letter from the Air Ministry, shall we say, saying, ‘You are now going home on deferred service and we will call you when we’re ready.’ Well, I thought that date would never come but anyway, eventually I received information from them which said report to Lord’s Cricket Ground on the 7th July 1941. No. That would be wrong. No. 1941 it was.
AM: ‘41.
NM: And there was hundreds of us there. All from over the country. The same men who had been on deferred service and they were all called together to the, to Lords Cricket Ground. And then were allocated sleeping accommodation in St Johns Wood. In a lovely place called Viceroy Court. And we were lying on palliases on the floor and there was no furniture but quite obviously the flats would be luxury flats. And having done that they decided right we can’t keep all these men here. It would be rather dangerous. There were thousands of us in a very small area and if the Germans had got to know, then bombed the area they’d have killed thousands of us. And they decided to send parties of us out and I was sent to Scampton. Just the job. And of course Scampton was a live station and we were all very interested to watch these Hampdens and things taking off. The Hampdens I didn’t care two hoots for. In fact, I did go to one of the satellites of Scampton and had a ride in one which I didn’t think was fit for purpose. And so when that was over came back to St Johns Wood which was called ACRC.
AM: What did you actually do at Scampton? Did you just —
NM: Oh just normal.
AM: Square bashing.
NM: Square bashing and all sort of things connected with the air [pause] I’m sorry. My –
AM: Oh don’t worry.
NM: Identification of aircraft and all that sort of thing, you see.
AM: Right.
NM: But anyway we were shipped back, back to ACRC at St John’s Wood and from there I was sent to Newquay in Cornwall for my ITW. Now, having completed all that we then were sent to a little airfield by High Wycombe called Booker and there we were introduced to the Tiger Moth. And I had a very senior flight lieutenant, old flight lieutenant as my teacher sort of thing. And he and I got on very well and in the end I discovered afterwards that having been sent on for the next stage I’d never gone solo in this Tiger Moth. I’d flown it time enough again with him in there. So, then the time came they said, ‘Right. Off you go home. Take a bit of leave at Christmas and report to —' a place at Manchester. A park. Something.
AM: Heaton. Heaton Park.
NM: Heaton Park. Heaton Park. There once again there was thousands of us and we were billeted out and I was billeted with a family — together with a friend of mine, Ron Champion and we were there. And funny things happened which don’t, have nothing to do with my life’s —
AM: Oh no. Tell us. Tell us.
NM: We [pause] there was a small area within the park itself was RAF property. And outside that, outside that we were ourselves again and of course we were staying with these people. Well, one young lad was seen walking around outside the RAF area after midnight. And so of course they called him in and said, ‘What’s the problem?’ He said, ‘Well, my landlady keeps getting in bed with me.’ And [laughs] do you know there must, must have been fifty or so had been there before and they never said a word and he had to go and let the cat out of the bag. After completing all that of course it was decided because we had not got the facilities in this country to train two thousand pilots and so it was decided to send us overseas and I was very fortunate in as much as in the January 1942 we sailed out of Liverpool for Halifax, Nova Scotia. And I do not recommend being in a smaller boat crossing the Atlantic at that time of the year. There was a little, a Polish destroyer with us and he kept disappearing out of sight and coming up the other side. How the hell they kept stuff in their whatever they call them. Where they keep — do all the food for them. I can’t remember.
AM: The galley.
NM: The galley. And anyway one or two of them the first morning out — the boat we were [pause] I think it was lunchtime. No. It had got to be morning and the boat did this. Twice.
AM: Rocking about in the sea.
NM: And everything on the table went whoosh in to a ruck on the floor. Well half of them looked at it and since they were little bit of somehow or other being affected by being at sea half of them went [laughs] went missing the next, the next day and boy could I eat, and I ate everything that came in front of me.
AM: You were not seasick then.
NM: No. No. It didn’t trouble me one little bit and then having landed we got on the train and went to Moncton. The PDSI. Personnel department of the –whatever it is. I can’t remember. And there we stayed. And one of the lads on the boat —I said, I said to him, ‘Shall we go to St George’s Church tonight? To the service.’ And he said, ‘Yes.’ So we went to the service and there we made friends with a family and I’ve been in touch with that family right after the war and they came and stayed with me. How wonderful things are. And then it was decided then we were ready and we were going to be shipped down to the United States. So, we got on a train and we were on that train for two days and three nights. It stopped at Toronto and I managed to get somebody on the train to contact my cousin in Toronto and he was, he came to the train to see me. Well I didn’t know him because he was in uniform and the last time I’d seen him he was in civvies. And he didn’t know me because I was in uniform. But nevertheless it went ok and on we went down into, into Georgia. Turner Field, Georgia. After a short time there they divided us up and I was sent in to, in to Lakeland in Florida.
AM: Yeah. We’re ok.
NM: Yeah. Lakeland in Florida.
AM: Actually. [pause] Ok. I think we’re ok.
NM: And then we were flying Stearmans and having completed what was necessary we were then shipped to Macon in Georgia to fly in the second stage. They called it Advanced Flying School. And we were flying multi —whatever the plane was called. I ought to have my logbook here. That would have helped a great deal. But nevertheless we were flying. And I was very lucky that the instructor that I got was, had been a pupil himself in class 42a and I was in class 42i. We had reached that stage there were so many classes. And we did all the necessary and then we were passed on to Valdosta which was Advanced Flying School. And there we were flying twin engines. Three types of twin engine as well as the A6 which we called [pause] we called the Harvard. And my instructor was an American lieutenant and so he said, ‘Come on Mottershead. We’re going in the Harvard today.’ So off we go and get in this Harvard. And he said, ‘Right. Do the checks.’ So, I did the check. ‘Ok. Taxi around and take off.’ Everything alright, but my right wing was down, and my left wing was up there and I couldn’t get the damned thing right. I thought what have I not done? And I realised the lock that was in the joystick — I hadn’t pulled it out [laughs] so then the wing came up and everything was nice. He said, ‘I shouldn’t do that again if I was you. Watch it in future.’ [laughs] And got back and landed and he said, ‘Right. Off you go and fly it yourself.’ So I did do. And it was a beautiful aircraft to fly. It touched down on all three wheels. No trouble at all. So, having completed there we then on the, in the October, came up for our papers of authority as being a pilot under the United States Army Air Force and I’ve got my silver type wings. The American wings. Then it was a case of I went before a board of four senior American officers and they looked at all my paperwork and said, ‘Would you like to stay behind and teach future classes of UK,’ and because of something that had happened while I was at Macon, Georgia I had to say, ‘I’m very sorry, but I can’t.’ I’ll tell you that separately. And so, on the train back to Macon —back to Moncton in New Brunswick of course I’d already made contact with the family, so I re-made the contact with this family and got on so wonderfully well but the main thing about being here in Britain and being over there was the fact that we were limited by ration books to XYZ whereas they —it was there for you to buy and eat etcetera. Marvellous. And of course, I could eat. There’s no argument about it. So, after a while they said, ‘Right,’ — get your knapsack, not your knapsack, the bag with all your bits and pieces in. ‘There’s a boat in for you.’ So, right, we got on the train, landed in Halifax and walked off on to the quay. You can say that again. A boat. It was the original Queen Elizabeth. Oh dear. And we got on board that feeling millionaires. But there was that many on from different countries and different regiments and all the rest of it. All coming across with one purpose in mind and that was to kill Nazism. And so, we crossed the Atlantic unescorted. Our liner was doing twenty six knots during the day and through the night she was doing thirty two ‘cause that gave it that little bit extra to get out where the Germans might well have figured out where we might be on such and such a time and so, one morning we woke up and we were in the Clyde.
AM: Just like that.
NM: Just like that. We’d gone through the boom and we were in the Clyde. So we had to then gather our things together and come down stairs after stairs ‘til we came to water level. And then we got on tugs which took us over to dry land and there was a train waiting for us to take us to [pause] well you’re asking me now [pause] well-known place up in Yorkshire anyway. And of course they said, ‘Right. Well you’re here now. Right. Take a bit of leave. You’ve been away three —six months.. Go and see your parents,’ etcetera which I did do and then I got notice, right —'Report to Little Rissington in Gloucestershire.’ And that’s where I was flying Oxfords. I had a little student tuition on the Oxford and then the instructor said, ‘Right. Mottershead go and get yourself some practice.’ Now –
AM: So how big was an Oxford? What?
NM: Oxford aircraft.
AM: Yeah. How big? How big was that?
NM: Twin engine.
AM: Right. Ok.
NM: The American when they open the throttles get hold of the throttles get hold of them and pull them back. We do this. Get behind the throttles and press them forward. So I was more or less getting the American system out of, out of use and back in. So he said, ‘Right Mottershead. Take that one and go and get a bit of flying yourself.’ So me — I flew at about two ninety. Something like that. And flew until I picked up the River Severn and I flew up the River Severn until I got to within a mile to where I lived and I flew around and around and around. And after a while I thought, right, well I’d better get back. In the meantime a front had moved in and I was above cloud. And I was flying down towards back in the general direction of Little Rissington and I did not know where I was. And I’ve got, I came up with —I shall either A) I can jump out with my parachute and let my aircraft go and crash in to something. Or B) I can go down through and hit something that I wouldn’t wish to hit like a church tower or something like that. And as I was pondering over it I looked on my port beam and there was an aircraft coming towards me and he passed in front of me and I said to myself, ‘If you know where you’re going I’m going with you.’ And I followed him and he, it was a, it was a radar station where —not radar. Signals and all the rest of it. At a place called Madeley near Hereford. And he landed and I landed after him. And so they just picked up the phone and rang Little Rissington, ‘One of your boys has touched down here.’ So he came over and I took off and followed him home. Went the day well. Having done all that I was then posted to Harwell where we had clapped out Wellingtons who’d done all the necessary they wanted to or at least they were wanted for and were in a clapped-out situation. And as we stood there we crewed up. I did not choose anybody. I just stood there.
AM: I was going to ask you about crewing up. How that went.
NM: I stood there, and they came and joined me. It was as easy as that.
AM: Yeah.
NM: Right.
AM: Together or in ones and twos?
NM: Well, I don’t whether they’d been talking with one lot over there and they looked at me and thought well I like the look of him and so they came over and joined me. So, I’d got everything except the flight engineer and the second gunner at that stage. Well, I didn’t stay at Harwell but I went to one of their satellites. A place we called Hampstead Norreys near Newbury and we were flying out of there. Well, we had been warned, ‘Don’t over shoot.’ Come in and land properly because there was a big pit, gravel pit at the end of the runway and people had gone in. Oh dear. The trouble. Anyway, we flew that and did all the necessaries and then having finished they said, ‘Right off you go home and get some leave and report to a place called Riccall,’ near –
AM: York.
NM: Yes. Selby. There we go, there we were introduced to the Halifax. Four engine bombers.
AM: So, you finish your training, you’ve got your crew and you’ve gone to Riccall. Have you been assigned to a squadron at this point?
NM: No. Not yet.
AM: Right. Ok.
NM: And there at Riccall I picked up a flight engineer and another gunner. And once again in latter years I said to the flight engineer, ‘How did you come to join me?’ He said ‘Well, I saw you standing there and I walked over and stood with you. It’s as easy as that.’ And so the same with the gunner. He came and joined me. And then of course on completion of that but before then the chief flying instructor at Riccall was called Harry Drummond. So, I got used, just used to flying the Halifax. He said, ‘Right, Mottershead take your crew and there’s, one of the planes over there. One of the Halibags. Take that and get a bit of flying hours in with them.’ Fair enough. Thank you very much and off we went. We got in this aircraft. Taxied around to the runway. Ok. Right. Open the throttle. I was belting down the runway and looked at my speedometer. I hadn’t got any. No speed. And it was too late to stop so I took off without it. And I flew without a speedometer around a time or two. And we tried to, what had happened we’d left the cover on the pitot head. Once again checking beforehand. We tried — first of all we opened the hatch in the front and tried to push it off and we couldn’t do anything like that. We couldn’t reach it. And so I switched on the heater and the heater wouldn’t burn it off. I thought, ‘Well, righto. Well, I’ve got you up here. You lads. I’d better get you down again.’ So, I said, ‘Right, we’re going in now.’ And I approached a little too fast because I didn’t want to stall and go in before I reached the runway. And so, I sort of hit the runway and bounced a little bit which wasn’t good for old Halifax bombers and whipped around and parked up where I’d taken it from and the crew got out. The wireless operator stood on the shoulders of the flight engineer, reached up and took the pitot head cover off just before Harry Drummond arrived around the corner. And he gave me a rollicking for landing the way I did but I didn’t tell him what had gone wrong. Went the day well again.
AM: Yeah.
NM: And so the day came that we had to go to Lissett. We were transferred to Lissett. Now, I think I’d probably heard of Lissett but we all went. There was Doug Cameron and his crew and myself and my crew. And of course, we had to get a bit of flying in together before we went on operations. I arrived there. Can you switch off a second, I’ll go and fetch —
[recording paused]
NM: Are you on?
AM: Ok. We’re back on.
NM: Right. I arrived at Lissett on the 15th of June 1943. And after a familiarisation on the 16th and the 17th — on the 21st was my first operation. To Krefeld. Now, all targets, as Bomber Command will tell you, have got searchlights and flak as well as fighters waiting to get hold of you. So, we went, went through the — etcetera. And poor Doug Cameron — a different story. I must tell you about him. Not on my record. And as a result, when we got back — you see a rear gunner never sees what’s ahead of him. He can only see what’s behind and he could see the fires in Krefeld burning thirty miles away. So when we arrived back at Lissett we went to the debriefing room and he said to me, ‘I’m not bloody going again.’ I said, ‘What?’ He said, ‘I am not bloody going again.’ And he was taken out and stripped straightaway of his brevet, sergeants and all the rest of it. What happened to him I don’t know but in, in hindsight he did me a very good turn. For they took my other gunner, mid-upper gunner from me and a couple of gunners had just completed a tour — a Canadian pilot’s tour of operations. But they needed another five runs themselves so, one of them related, the Groupie, said to — ‘Go around and see Mottershead. He’s looking for some gunners.’ And they came around to see me and we were discussing one thing or another. And I said, ‘Right. This is the position. My job is to fly that thing. And if you tell me to dive to port I shall dive to port. Don’t you worry about it. Everything you tell me I shall do.’ They said, ‘We’re in.’ And so they stayed with me for their five ops which cleared them. Then I got my original gunner back. Mid-upper gunner back.
AM: Mid-upper.
NM: Having lost the rear gunner. And then I had nineteen different gunners on my tour of operation which was must be a flaming record with the exception of perhaps a wing commander and that who had to grab a crew where he could get one.
AM: Why did they keep changing, Bluey?
NM: Well, I had to have gunners and they [pause] Smith and Edwards were the names of the two gunners were and we got on a like a mountain on fire and so it went on one after another. I went to Berlin on three occasions. I went to [pause] oh hell. Where’s the cathedral?
AM: Oh.
NM: We went —
AM: Dresden. Not Dresden.
NM: No. Cologne.
AM: Oh Cologne. Yeah.
NM: I went to Cologne on three occasions. I went to Mannheim on three occasions and in between all the other nights that we were bombing etcetera. On the second visit to Mannheim we were, people do not realise this, we were flying in complete darkness and other than the fact we saw markers ahead so the bomb aimer led us, led me to it, and he said, ‘Right. Bombs gone.’ Two or three seconds later there was such a hell of a bang. I said, ‘What the bloody hell was that?’ And what had happened an aircraft above us had dropped his load and hit my port inner engine. It sheared the blades off the engine. Off the propellers. And of course, the engine ran away and with it going like that it shook the plane as though it was really in trouble. Anyway, fortunately I’d got a very good flight engineer. He shut the engine down. Closed it down. Then he pumped all the fuel out of the tank nearest to the port inner across the wing to the tanks on the other side you see. Now, my reaction was, when that happened — stick the nose down let’s get out of here which I did do. Because the explosion had hit the Perspex around me on the port, especially on the port side and did other damage etcetera and so it was, we were down to five thousand feet before we could make headway. Now, everyone in Bomber Command will tell you if you are on your own flying at five thousand feet by heck you’ll soon have somebody on your tail. So, we were crossing and as we flew cross country in the dark I could see the lights of this town or city, whatever it was, I could see all the street lights because being under Nazi control they didn’t have to have a blackout. And so I said, ‘Right, get some Window ready in case the searchlights come up,’ etcetera. And we gave a dose of Window and they didn’t come on and we kept flying and I crossed —
AM: What’s Window?
NM: Window.
AM: What’s that mean?
NM: Slips of paper, silver backed paper.
AM: Oh yes.
NM: And that dropping by the millions fill their, their —
AM: The radar.
NM: The radar.
AM: The signal.
NM: What we call Grass.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
NM: They couldn’t pick out what was what and [pause] where’d I got to —
AM: So, you’re on your way back.
NM: On our way back –
AM: You’ve seen all the lights.
NM: We crossed the coast and I said to the flight engineer, ‘What’s the fuel like?’ He said, ‘We’ve got enough to get back to Lissett.’ And so, we went back to Lissett. Now, the hydraulics on the Halifax is controlled by the port inner engine. The hydraulic. And I didn’t know whether my undercarriage was locked. So I called in and they said, ‘Right. Fly down the runway as low as you can, and we’ll put the searchlight on you and have a look at you.’ So, having done that they said, ‘Right. We think you’re locked in alright.’ I said, ‘Right.’ So I went around again and landed. Went the day well.
AM: Again.
NM: We were back home. And it went on until the last. My last trip was to Berlin on the 22nd of November 1943 and the Wing Commander Jock Calder was on that night. I feel sure he was on. So when we came, you know, came from our aircraft in to debriefing Jock said to me, ‘That’s it Bluey. No more.’ And that was the end of my tour. The end of my flying altogether. I never did fly anything else.
AM: Ever.
NM: Ever.
AM: DFC.
NM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I then, they decided they needed controllers for operating Oboe. Now, Oboe was controlling aircraft over Germany from, from either — the main station was in Norfolk. Winterton. Did you happen to see the programme last night on — it was all about the lighthouses turned into houses etcetera. And Winterton was the Cat station. Now there was another station down in Deal in Kent and that was called the Mouse station. And the Cat station was controlled — the Cat station controlled the pilot. The Mouse station was talking to the navigator, bomb aimer. We’re talking about Mosquitos. And so, he would, when he reached the area he wanted to he’d pick up our signal. If he was too near he had dots. If he was too far out he had dashes. He had to have a steady signal and kept flying at a distance from the station in Norfolk at a distance of say two hundred and fifty miles away. And if he kept flying he would complete a two hundred and fifty mile circuit all around us, you see. But [pause] so, I had to go down to Swanage to learn all about this Oboe business at a little place called Tilly Whim. Down there. They seemed to have a station of the same thing. So when we’d finished. Right. I had no say on where I was going and I was sent to Winterton in Norfolk. Not to the one in Kent. The next morning after I arrived there I walked into the signals office and there was a young lady on the teleprinter talking to headquarters for 8 Group. Headquarters at — I forget the name for the moment. On the tele — on the teleprinter. And when she’d finished she looked at me and I said, ‘You’re wearing too much makeup.’ I’d found my wife. So —
AM: What did she say back?
NM: She didn’t. She [laughs] she was, she was a WAAF, you see. Oh dear. Oh dear and then of course that went on until the war had finished and then they didn’t want anybody there then.
AM: So what exactly were you doing there, Bluey?
NM: I was watching the younger part of the air force. That they’d got everything set up alright. The distance and all that sort of thing. What was going on. And I was even taken from there and posted down in to Deal. The Cat station. For a while.
AM: The Cat one.
NM: Anyway, when the war was over we didn’t need either of them. And so of course I had met Kay and there we are, by hangs another tale. So, I was still in the air force and they decided well you’ve done a lot of link trainer flying. The link trainer aircraft in the dark. It’s a statutory thing but you’re all closed in. You can’t see what was going on. You had to fly by instruments. And so, I learned, I learned how to do that and they posted me first of all to Prestwick in Norfolk.
AM: In –
NM: In Ayrshire. To the airfield there well that was then being taken over to become the airfield for Glasgow.
AM: Yes.
NM: The main airfield. So, I was on there a very short time and they said, ‘Right. Well we’ll post you to Marham in Norfolk.’ And I was on the same thing but when I got there and set up everything and ready for pilots they said well the war’s over we don’t need to do this anymore. And so, the rest of my time I was doing all sorts of jobs. Particularly, orderly officer and all that sort of thing and then I reached the stage where I thought, ‘Right. Look. We’ve got to go ahead now. We’ve got civilian life ahead,’ and so my dear wife and I decided —
AM: So, you were married by this time.
NM: We were getting married then.
AM: Ok. Yeah. Sorry.
NM: The war had finished up. We had already arranged the marriage up in Lanarkshire because she was a Lanarkshire girl, for the 18th of August 1945. The war finished in the Far East the 15th of August 1945. And so, we went up there and got married and thereafter settled down and I didn’t quite know what to do. Like a lot of people who had been in the services it was difficult to know exactly what to do. Anyway, there was a company in Liverpool called Silcocks Animal Foods that supplied to farming communities and I’d been a farmer’s son. And the position I was in and a decent sort of looking fellow the Silcocks agent who used to, who went to Shropshire, covered Shropshire said, ‘Well why don’t you join us?’ And so, I made enquiries and I joined Silcocks. I was sent to Nuneaton under an agent who had been there years to help him and I did all the necessary. And then came a vacancy of an area in Derbyshire and so I was sent from there to Derbyshire and landed in Brailsford on the, in August 1952. Something like that. And settled down and I was going around the farms and of course they knew I was a flying type and at that time Brooke Bond had a certain types of cigarette. Not cigarettes but cards in the thing.
AM: Yes.
NM: And that helped me to get familiar with the families etcetera. Swapping and one thing and another. And I reached the stage where one Remembrance Sunday morning at Brailsford, after that Mr Cecil Dalton who ran Silkolene Lubricants at Belper said, ‘Neville, will you come and work for me?’ And I said, ‘Mr Cecil, I will come and work for you.’ And I went and worked for Silkolene Lubricants until I retired.
AM: Right.
NM: Good.
AM: Neville. It sounds funny to hear you called Neville. I always think of you as Bluey.
NM: Yeah. Well I’m still known as Bluey of course. As you know.
AM: Just tell me why you became called Bluey.
NM: Because of my hair. I had ginger red hair. Now, the Australians — those big kangaroos in Australia which have reddy brown hair were called Blues. And so, when the first Australian saw me he said, ‘Well you’re a Bluey.’ And that’s it.
AM: It stuck.
NM: And it’s been with me ever since.
AM: Can I ask you a little bit about the 158 Squadron Association.
NM: Yes.
AM: And you became chairman I think. Tell me a little about that.
NM: Yes. Well I started looking, I started when I came [pause] when I’d finished. Well as soon as I could, I can’t remember exactly, I decided to draw up a register of all those who had been with 158 Squadron and [pause] now I’m looking for something in particular. I think I left it next door. But it’s the book with all the names in. The complete crews. And I kept getting these names of these, of these people and inviting them. And so in 1989 I think it was I got the freedom of entry into this town of Bridlington for the squadron and that’s how it developed from there. And I’m still now president of the squadron until such time as I kick my boots and somebody else will take over.
AM: So, every year you go up to Lissett.
NM: Every time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Now I’ll —
AM: And what about the memorial? Tell me a little bit more about the memorial at Lissett.
NM: Yes.
AM: How did that come about?
NM: Well. After Lissett the old airfield became a farm. Belonged to a farmer. And the powers that be decided it would be the ideal site to put up wind generators. So they put up twelve wind generators on the old airfield. In the meantime, 158 — if you reverse those figure you’ve got 851 and that was the number of young people who were killed on that squadron alone. Eight hundred and fifty one. Eight hundred and fifty males and one female. The one female was a sergeant WAAF in the Met office and she’d never been in an aeroplane and she went on a flight with someone unscheduled just to show her what went on. The damned thing crashed on [pause] that Head that comes out north of Bridlington. Crashed there and killed the lot of them. And she was one of them. So there was eight hundred and fifty airmen, men, who were killed and one WAAF. And so, it was decided by the people who were going to put these generators up that they needed a memorial and of course we were behind it and said yes. And that memorial is still drawing people. Just as the Angel of the North drew people to see it so the one at Lissett. Is that still on? In fact, the other day, one of our members who lives up in the Wakefield area had been up there and gone to have a look at it. He said, ‘It looks awful,’ he said, ‘All we’ve got is stalks left.’ What happened is there are flowers which bloom.
AM: Yeah. There’s poppies there.
NM: And then it’s all left so that the seeds from that drop down to the ground and re –
AM: Yeah.
NM: Come alive again. And he went at the bad time of the year. So, when he rang again I said, ‘Look there’s nothing I can do about it. As much as I appreciate you ringing me and telling me. I know what its like. But,’ I said, ‘We have nobody in that area at all to do anything.’ But the locals do it. Anyway, I understood that they’d even called in the East Midlands, East Yorkshire organisation had called in people to go and have a clean up there.
AM: People.
NM: I hadn’t ordered it. They just went and did it.
AM: Excellent because it’s a lovely memorial isn’t it.
NM: It’s a lovely memorial. A friend of mine from Derbyshire whose funeral I attended this year — he always talked about me and us and I said, ‘Well take a run up there and have a look at the memorial yourself.’ So he, along with another couple and he and his wife went to see it and then I saw him a few days afterwards. I said, ‘What do you think of the memorial?’ And he said, ‘It’s a very very wonderful thing.’ He said, ‘I read every name on that memorial and yours wasn’t on it.’ [laughs] So, I said, ‘Well it won’t be will it? I’m still here.’
AM: Still here. They’re the ones that are not.
NM: He didn’t realise that you see. But it really is. Oh, and let me go and fetch something first.
[recording paused]
AM: So I’m looking at a picture of the first meeting of the Squadron Association.
NM: In 1947.
AM: Ok. Were you there? Are you on it?
NM: Yes. Yes. I’m on the back row. You’ll see me.
AM: Point. Point yourself out to me.
NM: This little chap here, look.
AM: Oh of course you are.
NM: And that was arranged by Scruffy Dale at — I forget the name of the place now. And we all turned up for this and that photograph was taken. And there’s all sorts of people on that photograph and I can — there’s no one left on that photograph as far as I’m concerned. Only me. All the rest are gone. Now, I want to show you this because this is what I’m working on.
AM: Bluey’s showing me the most beautiful tapestry. Is it tapestry or cross stitch?
NM: No. It’s tapestry.
AM: Tapestry of the Halifax and —
NM: The crew.
AM: The crew and it’s beautiful and we’ll take a photograph of it.
NM: It’s not finished yet ‘cause I’ll go and fetch the other bit if I haven’t got it here. This is the other bit.
AM: How long have you been doing this for Bluey?
NM: [laughs] Oh heaven knows.
AM: It’s lovely. I’m going to end the interview now but we’ll take a photograph of this — of the tapestry that Bluey’s been doing.
NM: Now that fits. That will be fitted in there.
AM: Right.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Bluey Mottershead
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Annie Moody
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-19
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AMotterheadN150719
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:45:34 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Born on a farm in Shropshire, his best friend from his youth joined the Royal Air Force as aircrew and was killed at RAF Honington when a German aircraft bombed the station. A desire for revenge made him enlist for flying duties in January 1941. He was sent to RAF Scampton for basic training where he had a flight in a Hampden which he rated as "not fit for purpose".
Flying training commenced at RAF Booker on Tiger Moths and he was then sent out of England as part of the Empire Training Scheme. Flying training on Stearman aircraft recommenced at Lakeland in Florida followed by multi-engined training at Macon in Georgia and Valdosta for advanced training. In October 1942 he became a pilot under the American Army Air Force System and declined an offer to stay and become an instructor.
Returning to Britain on an unescorted Queen Elizabeth liner, he trained on Oxfords at RAF Little Rissington. Posted to RAF Harwell to fly, in Bluey's terms "clapped out Wellingtons" he describes the system for forming a crew. They were posted to RAF Riccall to fly the Halifax.
The next posting was to an operational squadron at RAF Lissett where he did his first operational flight to Krefeld in June 1943 and trips to Berlin, Cologne and Mannheim. After his trip to Krefeld, his rear gunner refused to fly and was removed. On his second trip to Mannheim, Bluey's aircraft was struck by a bomb from an aircraft flying above. They had to reduce height and so used Window to disguise their location. The final trip was to Berlin in November 1943 and, having completed his tour, was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. Bluey never flew again. Sent to Tilly Whim, Bluey was trained to operate Oboe and explains the device. Posted to an Oboe station at RAF Winterton to monitor junior operatives, he met his future wife.
After the war had finished he became an instructor on the Link Trainer and sent to various RAF stations and finally to RAF Marham from where he was demobilised and returned to civilian life. In civilian life, employment in the farm feed industry was followed by time in the lubricant industry until retirement. Bluey compiled a register of all crews that flew with 158 Squadron and formed a Squadron association in 1947, of which he became president, and organised a memorial to the squadron at former RAF Lissett.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943-06
1943-11
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
England--Gloucestershire
England--Norfolk
England--Oxfordshire
England--Suffolk
England--Yorkshire
Canada
United States
Florida
Florida--Lakeland
Georgia
Georgia--Macon
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Mannheim
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
158 Squadron
aircrew
bomb struck
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
Flying Training School
Halifax
Hampden
Harvard
Initial Training Wing
lack of moral fibre
love and romance
memorial
military ethos
Oboe
Oxford
pilot
RAF Hampstead Norris
RAF Harwell
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Honington
RAF Lissett
RAF Little Rissington
RAF Marham
RAF Riccall
RAF Scampton
recruitment
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
Window