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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Edwards, Ellis
E D Edwards
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. The collection concerns Sergeant Ellis Drury Edwards (1236492 Royal Air Force) and consists of his logbook, memorial booklet and four letters. Ellis Edwards was a bomb aimer with 149 Squadron and flew operations from RAF Lakenheath. He was killed when his Halifax crashed on an operation to Berlin 30 March 1943. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Pauline Harkett and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.<br /><br />Additional information on Ellis Edwards is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/208271/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-05-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Edwards, ED
Transcribed document
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[underlined] R.A.F Strad [/underlined]
5/1/43
My dear Maggie
Thanks awfully for the nice assorted parcel which I have just collected from the Post Office.
They all will be very useful especially now I was out of Shaving Cream & had only 20 cigs left. We are now flying every night so are unable to get out to replenish the stock.
Well as Regards Xmas it was quite OK but couldn’t do a lot because on Xmas day we were the only crew who were sufficiently advanced to be able to fly as a crew so were standing by in the event of Air Sea Rescue being required
[page break]
[underlined] 2 [/underlined]
but luckily we were not called on.
On Xmas Eve we were flying until about 5 o’clock, and on Dec 22 we flew up to Lossiemouth & back the next day Thats [sic] the reason the Xmas cards were late arriving. Xmas night I was invited to the WAAF NCO’s party had quite a good time there, plenty to eat and drink Free and since then have not been flying on the Sunday after Xmas we flew down to Newquay Cornwall & back quite a nice trip but flew over cloud the whole way never saw the ground once either there or back.
And each day since we have
[page break]
been night flying and even if the weather is bad when we are due to start we still have to hang about to wait for either better or worse weather to come We have only one more night trip to do here so shall be moving on again
Well I think thats [sic] all for now except to wish you all the best for 1943
Thanking you
Your loving brother
Ellis
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Letter to his sister from Ellis Edwards
Description
An account of the resource
Thanks for parcel she sent, especially as night flying had precluded his from shopping for essentials. Continues to describe activities around Christmas 1942 including being on search and rescue standby on Christmas day and a sortie to Lossiemouth and Newquay as well as a Women's Auxiliary Air Force non-commissioned officer's party. Notes that he has only one more operation to go.
Creator
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Ellis Edwards
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1943-01-05
Format
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Three handwritten pages
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Correspondence
Identifier
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EEdwardsEDEdwardsM430105
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Scotland
England--Suffolk
Scotland--Moray
England--Cornwall (County)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-12
1943-01
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Andy Hamilton
RAF Lossiemouth
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/119/1215/PThomasWH1501.2.jpg
745fc204912c7bac71a5523c73801932
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/119/1215/AThomasWH150711.1.mp3
b0bbf81f2421a7d15357a2b007230236
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
BB: Ok Bill.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Thank you for allowing me to come into your home and interview you. It’s a real pleasure to meet with a veteran like yourself.
WT: I’ll give you, I’ll give you the bill later on.
BB: Thank you very much. Ok. What’s your birthday date?
WT: 28th January 1922.
BB: And place of birth?
WT: Redruth in Cornwall.
BB: Redruth. And did you go to school there as well?
WT: Yes I did.
BB: And you did your school certificate and all that kind of thing.
WT: I did.
BB: Ok. When did you, did you volunteer to join the RAF or were you conscripted and then decide for aircrew?
WT: Volunteered because as I said I’ve got that thing all written out. We had, in 1938 they started a flight of the Air Defence Cadet Corp.
BB: Yeah
WT: I joined that because our headmaster was an ex-fighter pilot in the First World War. And then I left school to start work so I couldn’t carry on with the flight but I managed to find the town flight and joined them
BB: And what was your pre-war occupation?
WT: In local government.
BB: Ok.
WT: On the health department side.
BB: And what attracted you to wanting to volunteer for aircrew?
WT: I think it, it was our headmaster who was, as I say, he was a fighter pilot.
BB: The ex RAF sea pilot. Yes.
WT: Ex RAF.
BB: Yeah. Good. He encouraged you to do that.
WT: Not only do that when I, when I was working, walking down past his house, as I had to, I heard, ‘Thomas. Why haven’t you joined the ATC?’ I said, ‘Well,’ ‘It’s the school.’ ‘There’s one down the end of your road. I’ll see you tomorrow night at three.’
BB: Good. So you, you volunteered for aircrew. You obviously went for air crew selection.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And they obviously graded you as, as a bomb aimer or did you go for a particular -
WT: I wanted to be a pilot.
BB: Right. And what happened with that that you couldn’t be. Were they oversubscribed or they just needed bomb aimers?
WT: No well I came out from doing the stuff. I went up to Sywell.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Tiger Moths.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Well I got twelve and a bit hours in but I never saw it
BB: And then you were scrubbed.
WT: Well I could take off. I could do everything in the air
BB: But the landing was a problem.
WT: Landing was a problem. On the little mini run, place -
BB: Yes.
WT: We had.
BB: Yes
WT: But the big one I could get in at. The chief flying instructor
BB: Right.
WT: Took me on a check and he said, ‘I’ll try my best but I don’t know what I can do,’ but he couldn’t.
BB: Anyway, so you were remustered as a bomb aimer.
WT: No. As a NavB.
BB: Oh as a Nav oh as a NavB. Ok. Right.
Other: Excuse me for just a second. Turn it off and press that to start again. Hold that down to this constant.
BB: Ok.
Other: Ok, right.
BB: So -
Other: I want to go and check on my dog.
BB: Ok. So -
Other: I’d better check on the dog in the car.
BB: Ok.
WT: Oh alright my dear.
BB: A NavB.
Do you want me to get up?
BB: A navigator bracket bomb aimer ok. Now, was that the half brevet with the B on it?
WT: No the old-
BB: Oh as the old observer. Ok.
WT: Oh yes.
BB: The flying O.
WT: That’s what I got.
BB: Right.
WT: ‘cause I went to Canada. Eventually.
BB: Oh you went, part of the old Empire Training School.
WT: I did. And I did my bomb aiming and gunnery. And then to oh I’ve forgotten what it’s called now - L’Ancienne-Lorette. And I did my navigation training there. I must have come out fairly well because I got granted a commission.
BB: Right.
WT: So the first six, we never knew which ones out of thirty two were commissioned and then I went to Prince Edward Island and we did three or four weeks special training there to go out over the sea. Navigation and all that. So -
BB: Ok.
WT: That finished.
BB: Right.
WT: Back to Moncton and that was the holding unit.
BB: Yeah.
WT: There for ages waiting to go back to England and eventually doing so. I had come over to Canada on the Queen Elizabeth.
BB: Wow.
WT: Came back on the Aquitania.
BB: Which of course had been converted to a trooper so it wasn’t very luxurious.
WT: Luxurious oh it was luxurious enough.
BB: It was enough, still luxurious.
WT: oh it was alright. And then down to the holding unit waiting to be, go somewhere. We were pushed here there and everywhere and eventually back again and told we were then going to Scotland to something, I said, ‘What is that for? Bomb aimers.
BB: Bomber aimer.
WT: So they converted us from that to bomb aiming.
BB: I see. Right. And so what time, at what date did you actually go, finish that training?
WT: Oh I can do it.
BB: Ok.
WT: Do it from here. [?]
BB: Roughly.
WT: Monckton. Harrogate. Oh back to England in November ’43.
BB: November ‘43 so -
WT: And then to Harrogate.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And then we were at Sidmouth, back to Harrogate again and eventually up to Wigtown.
BB: Oh.
WT: That was April ’44.
BB: Ok and you joined so your OTU where you crewed up. Where was that?
WT: That was down at Castle Donington in May.
BB: Castle.
WT: ’44.
BB: And was that? When my uncle was flying for 9th squadron at Bardney, an Australian pilot he did his OTU at Kinloss.
WT: Ah huh.
BB: And they threw them in to a big hangar and all the navs and the pilots and the air gunners and the bomb aimers were all in this big hangar and they virtually crewed up until they found their own crew.
WT: This is what we did.
BB: Good. So it seemed to have been an RAF -
WT: That was the way of doing it. Yes.
BB: Programme.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And it was, it was very good because each crew kind of found the people they kind of trusted to fly with and they’d ask questions like, to the pilot particularly, ‘Were you alright on your course?’ ‘What were you?’ ‘Oh I was above average.’ ‘You’ll do.’ And it was usually the navigator that found the pilot.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And once they’d got those two, ‘oh I met a bomb aimer over there. A guy I liked.’
WT: This was the way we did it.
BB: And that was exactly the same -
WT: We did it the same way.
BB: That you did it.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Ok and so you were all taking each other on trust at that stage.
WT: Sure and then we went on from there to Prangtoft sorry, Sandtoft.
BB: Sandtoft.
WT: And then Hemswell for Lanc finishing school and then I did what, I was transferred then from there to 166 at Kirmington and 166 squadron was there and we were the 3rd flight. AB. I think it was C flight. And they -
BB: And what were they flying at the time? Lancs?
WT: Well that was Lancs.
BB: Lancs. Yeah.
WT: And what they did was they they nearly burst C flight ready and then we went back actually down to Scampton.
BB: Right.
WT: As 153.
BB: Ok.
WT: And we were the first aircraft to land at Scampton ’cause they had just put the stuff in. We were the first aircraft to land there. In A Able which was somebody else’s kite anyway.
BB: Yes.
WT: But er yeah we went along the runway the lads were all waving. He said, ‘There’s mine’
BB: Now, when my uncle was on 9 squadron in ’43 of course. This was a bit later on in the war. The pilot i.e. my uncle and his navigator flew a second observer, a second crew. They went with a regular crew on a raid.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Who were about to finish their tour so the pilot and the navigator flew on that raid as supernumerary just to see what it was like.
WT: Only one. It was only the pilot went from our -
BB: Ok. Right.
WT: ‘cause he -
BB: They still did that in that place by the time you -
WT: Yes.
BB: Yeah.
WT: They did one trip.
BB: Yeah. As a spare bod. And -
WT: That’s right.
BB: They came back.
WT: That’s right.
BB: And then got their own crew.
WT: That’s right.
BB: Was the air, was the Lancaster you had on 153 a brand new one or was it, had it been recycled?
WT: Well -
BB: From another crew?
WT: Well it was one of the, it was one of the -
BB: One of them.
WT: In fact we didn’t get I Item until about four or five and then it was regular hours.
BB: Ok.
WT: Flying. That’s what it says up there.
BB: Yeah my uncle did much the same thing. He did, he did it seemed to be a Bomber Command practice.
WT: Yeah.
BB: That they got the pilot and the nav to fly these initial sorties.
WT: Ahum.
BB: And then they were given a gash not gash but spare Lancs or –
WT; Yeah.
BB: To fly one or two trips.
WT: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: And then their own brand shiny new Lancaster arrived from the factory and they had that for the whole of the rest of their tour. My uncle’s Lancaster was called Spirit of Russia and it finished the war with a hundred and nine ops.
WT: Did it?
BB: And so it was lucky. But anyway we’re not talking about my uncle we’re talking about.
WT: Thomas.
BB: So there you are on ops.
WT: Yeah and we -
BB: With your scratch crew. Yeah.
WT: Yes and we carried on right up until well we did one on the 3rd of February ’45. No sorry the 7th of March ’45. And on the 8th we did a grand loop.
BB: Ah.
WT: Our pilot passed out.
BB: Oh.
WT: We think it was a fit and we were on our way to Castle.
BB: Ah.
WT: And we came out and [wing co Piley?] said, ‘You’ll be flying tonight’ and we said, ‘Not [so and so] likely until we know what’s happened to the skipper.’ He said, ‘You’ll be on a charge.’ I said, ‘I’ll see you there. Sir’ and left it at that.
BB: So, what, the was pilot was
WT: He -
BB: Obviously written off.
WT: Yes he was pretty.
BB: Wrtten off.
WT: He was gone. By that time they’d taken him away. By the time we’d got gathered together and he came back, tapped me on the shoulder and said, ‘It’s alright. The spare crew are going.’ so I saw him in the mess.
BB: He didn’t give you a spare pilot to fly that night.
WT: No. Well he wanted us to fly.
BB: Fly. So you didn’t do that.
WT: We didn’t go. No. We just didn’t. It was -
BB: That was your last trip?
WT: No.
BB: No.
WT: So what happened then, Bruce went into hospital and eventually they realised he wasn’t coming out. They sent us home on leave and brought us back and I can’t remember whether they gave us three weeks or anyway we came back again and we did our last three with a Canadian no an Aussie pilot who’d lost his crew and had three to do.
BB: Right. Ok that -
WT: So he did three.
BB: That was usually the way.
WT: We thought we should have done one more so what we did was twenty nine and a half ‘cause we had an abortion in the middle of it.
BB: Right. Right. Ok and I gather that rather unfairly French targets counted for half.
WT: No.
BB: At that time of the war.
WT: No.
BB: No.
WT: No.
BB: No.
WT: In fact the first one was Fort [Frederick Heinrich] just on the Dutch coast.
BB: Oh right. Ok.
WT: But that was a full.
BB: Ok.
WT: That was full.
BB: Yeah.
WT: They were all full.
BB: Yeah.
WT: ‘Cause we didn’t do very many French ones.
BB: No. Not at that stage. No.
WT: No. We were going out.
BB: No. No. Right.
WT: Including Dresden.
BB: Yes. Now what was you’re, ok we’ll get to Dresden later.
WT: Yes.
BB: ‘Cause it’s been quite controversial and everybody sees that as the bad thing that Bomber Command did. Um what what’s your opinion of that?
WT: My opinion is as I’ve said to many people we bombed Dresden because we, one, we were told to. But it turns out afterwards that Mr Churchill was given from the Russians three, three targets that needed to be hit, Dresden and two others. I don’t know which they were. And he was given to us, he gave them to Bomber Harris and said, ‘There’s the three. You do them whenever you think right.’ And we went on the Dresden -
BB: Yeah.
WT: Trip.
BB: Yeah Churchill gave them to Portal who was chief of the air staff.
WT: Yes and he -
BB: And Portal gave them to Harris.
WT: Yeah and Harris, Harris sent them.
BB: Just did what he was told basically.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah [?]
WT: But Harris said to us, you know, we didn’t, he chose them.
BB: Yes.
WT: He chose Dresden. Ten hours twenty that was.
BB: Yes it was a long trip.
WT: It was. And it was the best bonfire night I’ve ever seen.
BB: Yes it did. It was rather grand.
WT: But -
BB: As far as the crews were concerned –
WT: I found out afterwards and I’ve got the book saying -
BB: Yes.
WT: That Dresden was a target. It was full of troops. They were making very small arms stuff.
BB: Yeah.
WT: For submarines and things like that all scattered all over the place.
BB: Yeah it was a -
WT: So -
BB: Legitimate target.
WT: A legitimate target.
BB: Legitimate target. Yes. So that was Dresden and I think in the post war my own opinion and this is my own opinion and you know Churchill wanted to stand in the Conservative government. Labour were coming up and what we understand of labour it’s now called Labour it was a socialist government coming up and he wanted to back away from the actual how effective Bomber Command had been and um and more or less threw Harris to, to the wolves.
WT: And washed his hands.
BB: And washed his hands of it. But he did the same with Dowding after the Battle of Britain so there we go it says something about the great Churchill doesn’t it?
WT: No. I don’t, don’t respect him.
BB: No.
WT: Anymore.
BB: Anyway -
WT: Sorry.
BB: Enough of that.
WT: Go on.
BB: No. No. It’s ok but I saw Dresden on your bookcase and I thought I’d ask about it.
WT: I got it there.
BB: Now getting back to the crew.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And how you all trusted each other and had to rely on each other.
WT: Yeah.
BB: What, were there any, I mean were you scared?
WT: No.
BB: You weren’t scared.
WT: Never scared.
BB: Ok. Funny I’ve heard this a lot from Bomber Command crews. They weren’t, they were apprehensive but they weren’t particularly scared.
WT: No. We just went in and did it.
BB: And did it. Yeah ok. Now we’ve read a lot, or I’ve read a lot, there’s been a lot of post-war um study on LMF issues.
WT: Yes.
BB: Lack of moral fibre issues. In your time in Bomber Command did you ever come across anything of that sort?
WT: I think there was one. One night that I never found out true there was three of us three kites on a set of pads.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Or whatever you call them.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And we did a run up and then we used to come outside -
BB: Yeah.
WT: For a smoke or whatever knowing that the signal would go up, get in your kites, and there was a pilot on one of those things and I didn’t know him sat in the hedge smoking a cigarette and there was a little bit of a kafuffle and three staff cars came down and he went with them. Now, that was the bloke who had refused to go that night. When we got back everything was hushed.
BB: Was he commissioned?
WT: Yes.
BB: Yeah.
WT: We didn’t, I don’t know what had happened to him. I didn’t know the guy.
BB: He was just posted. That was it. Gone.
WT: It was just, he was just taken off. Yeah.
BB: Yeah ok. What year would that be roughly? Roughly. Doesn’t have to be exact.
WT: I can’t remember. It was certainly in ’44.
BB: Ok.
WT: ’45 I mean.
BB: ’45.
WT: The beginning of ’45.
BB: Because, coming back to my late uncle’s crew his rear gunner um Sergeant Clegg had been a pre-war warrant officer but had been busted down to sergeant many times for doing nasty things, naughty things I should say. I won’t go into details.
WT: Right. No.
BB: But he was always in and out of Sheffield. You know what Sheffield was?
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah. He was always in and out of Sheffield and that’s another place that doesn’t have much publicity. It was the air crew rehabilitation centre or whatever they wanted to call it.
WT: Ahum.
BB: But I only found this out by looking at the form 500, 540.
WT: 540.
BB: Yeah and it had all the missions for my uncle and the crews and you’d see Sergeant Clegg and then you’d see three or four trips no Sergeant Clegg some other gash gunner had gone in and I asked some survivors on my late uncle’s crew what about Clegg? At first they were all very protective and then they said well actually Clegg was a bit of a lad and he got into trouble with drink and women and was always been sent to Sheffield but in in the air he was a perfect rigger just I mean you know my uncle trusted him implicitly and when he was at Sheffield my uncle felt really, really uncomfortable with this gash gunner sitting at the back who he didn’t know. But you know he got, he got through his tour unfortunately my uncle but was killed instructing.
WT: Our wireless op he was, he was an Australian and he was a silly B really and he drank like old boots so when he got in the kite he would do everything he had to do but Jack, our navigator was a great guy ‘cause he knew there was a group, a message to come. I’ve forgotten was it half hourly -
BB: Yeah.
WT: Quarter hourly.
BB: Half hourly.
WT: He’d give Digger a kick.
BB: Usually the weather and, yeah.
WT: We’d could usually hear, ‘Digger wake up you silly B.’ And he’d be, ‘Oh oh alright,’ he says and he never missed, he had everything down, he never missed a thing. He knew exactly where we were going.
BB: Yeah. That’s great. My uncle’s navigator was the old man of the crew. He was -
WT: Yeah.
BB: He was thirty two.
WT: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: He’d been a postmaster in the Isle of Man and had volunteered to be a navigator because he was very good at maths but he was the old man of the crew and the rest of the crew called him Pop. Because the average age on, the average age on my uncle’s crew was what nineteen, twenty.
WT: Ahum.
BB: My uncle himself he was twenty one when he was killed. And that’s having done thirty trips.
WT: I was, I got I was twenty one in Canada. While I was in Canada.
BB: Yeah.
WT: I got deferred service so so such a long time.
BB: Yeah.
WT: In fact I registered as I had to do.
BB: Was that because you were local government job that was deferred?
WT: No nothing to do with that at all. ‘cause they were happy.
BB: It wasn’t a reserved occupation or anything.
WT: No it wasn’t.
BB: No.
WT: It wasn’t reserved. What happened was I signed on as we had to do and I said look here’s my number. Oh yes well that’s ok. Three weeks later I got called up for the army and [noise off] that’s somebody downstairs.
BB: Oh right.
WT: Don’t take any notice of that. And I got called up for the army and I managed to get out of that with a big brigadier somebody that we well knew. He rang them up and he said silly B. He told you what was happening because they were going to come and fetch me.
BB: Yeah.
WT: So that worked out alright.
BB: Good.
WT: Because, you know it didn’t always go right.
BB: No.
WT: I was lucky.
BB: So there were, there were evidence of LMF when you were on the squadron.
WT: Just that one.
BB: Just that one.
WT: Just that I know of.
BB: Yeah. Exactly. Just that you know of. And he was commissioned.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah. I’ve heard other stories where had it been a sergeant air crew Harris was so worried about this kind of thing that we would call it post-traumatic stress disorder.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Today um they were, they were lined up in front of the whole squadron, stripped of their chevrons.
WT: That’s right.
BB: And their brevets taken off. Which was very very harsh but it did get the message. And other aircrews I’ve spoken to they were more scared of that happening to them.
WT: That they -
BB: Then facing the Germans.
WT: So that kept them going.
BB: And I suppose that was Harris’ view. You can either be scared of me or you can be scared of them.
WT: Sure.
BB: Make your choice.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Um but it now the Americans had a completely different attitude to it in the 8th air force and they were flying daylight raids.
WT: Ahum.
BB: As you know. So there was a different thing. The other commands, coastal, fighter, transport they had their, it wasn’t so prevalent.
WT: No.
BB: In those commands. But it’s, it’s, it’s an issue that is very interesting academically and the Sheffield thing. So that might be something that might be an aspect of the Bomber Command research.
WT: [?]
BB: No I’m just saying but you knew of it, it happened on your squadron and that was -
WT: That’s it.
BB: Quietly posted away.
WT: Didn’t take no notice of it.
BB: Yes, that’s right. I mean, you know, a very good friend of my father’s, a chap called Musgrave who was a pathfinder, a pre-war fitter when the heavies came in he volunteered to be a flight engineer, went to St Athan, came out with [E] joined his crew at the Heavy Conversion Unit and went on and did his thing but he did ninety three ops at the end and I said to him once, sadly he’s no longer with us but I have his log books and he said, ‘Well, you know we were dead anyway after four,’ four to five ops in that tour no statistically, statistically -
WT: I know. Yes.
BB: Dead. So let’s go.
WT: I’m going to empty that.
BB: Oh I’m sorry. Right.
WT: Are you going to switch it off or not? Whichever you want to do.
BB: No I’ll just.
WT: I’ll run.
BB: No don’t run. Take your time.
WT: No. No.
BB: Take your time.
WT: It’s only two minutes.
BB: Yeah.
[Pause]
BB: Ok.
WT: Sorry about that.
BB: No, don’t be. No, it’s fine.
WT: You can’t stop it you see.
BB: No. I know you can’t. Thank you very much.
WT: You know.
BB: So that’s great.
WT: You know.
BB: That’s great.
That’s great. Sure
BB: We’ve covered why you wanted to join, you joined, you got re-mustered from pilot to bomb aimer sorry NavB er went to Canada for your initial training.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And then came back to the Heavy Conversion Unit. Lancaster finishing school.
WT: Right.
BB: And went to the OTU and got your crew.
WT: Yes. That’s right.
BB: And you did your, you did your trip. Was it twenty nine do you remember? You told me.
WT: We did twenty nine. I always say one was a half.
BB: Ok.
WT: We got out one night and we had an engine go.
BB: A boomerang.
WT: And she wasn’t very, we weren’t very happy but we carried on for a while and then another one started to go sick so we turned -
BB: Now -
WT: So we turned and came back.
BB: Yeah.
WT: That was about -
BB: What mission, what sortie was that?
WT: That was about the 8th of February.
BB: 8th of, yeah.
WT: Politz I think it was called.
BB: 8th of February 45.
WT: Hmmn?
BB: 8th of February 45. Yeah.
WT: Yes.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And er when we got back somebody said, ‘Why didn’t you go on?’ And he had a few rings there and I said, ‘Sir look out on the pan. There’s an aircraft out there. It’s got two good engines. One is alright I think. The other one’s rough.’ I said, ‘There’s seven of us here.’
BB: What did the flight engineer think about it? He must have made the judgement on that?
WT: No, he had -
BB: The captain.
WT: He had to shut it down. It was -
BB: Yeah.
WT: So I said, ‘And you’ve got the seven of us are here are ready to go again.’ I said, ‘We didn’t go over and get a VC and lose your aircraft for you.’ Cause that -
BB: What did he say to that?
WT: So he said, ‘Well forget it.’ I said, ‘just as well [stress] sir.’
BB: Station commander?
WT: Hmmn?
BB: Was that the station commander?
WT: Yeah. No. It was the er -
BB: Squadron commander?
WT: No. It was the station commander. He happened to be there, yes.
BB: Yeah. Station master as they used to call them.
WT: They usually had four rings.
BB: Yeah. Group captain. Yes.
WT: There was the AOC there. He was there. He was great ‘cause I was friendly with his WAAF lady.
BB: Yeah.
WT: I used we used very friendly just chatted and all that and had a drink and I was saying good night to her outside his house one night and suddenly he tapped me on the shoulder, he was coming in. He said, ‘Don’t keep her up all night because she’s got to get me breakfast in the morning.’ He said, ‘This isn’t a -
BB: Yeah, but they knew what was going on.
WT: He knew.
BB: They loved their aircrew. Yeah.
WT: He was happy.
BB: Now -
WT: I’ve done a whole lot screed on me.
BB: I’ll look at that later.
WT: Yeah that’s what I wanted to -
BB: One other thing I wanted to mention to you because -
WT: Yeah.
BB: Bomber Command had a high instance of venereal disease. VD.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And it was, it was a big a big issue because crews were getting sick and having to go to Halton and all these other hospitals and Harris had a view of it that, ‘cause the chief medical officer in Bomber Command went to see him about it, right. Went to see Harris
WT: Ahum.
BB: To, you know, tell him, you know, it’s got to stop and he said, ‘If my old lags want to have a bit of fun let them have it because they could be dead tomorrow. Now get out of my office.’ He said something like that. But I mean did you, were you aware of any of that?
WT: No. No.
BB: Were there any kind of big posters?
WT: No it was -
BB: Or lectures?
WT: No. It was a good squadron as far as that was concerned. No. We had good fun. We had this -
BB: Yeah
WT: We did a lot of that.
BB: Right. But less of the other.
WT: As far as I’m concerned.
BB: Apparently it was a big problem in Bomber Command but probably in certain areas.
WT: We, we were lucky. I was lucky. I think we had a good squadron there.
BB: Yeah.
WT: They really were. I didn’t know all of them or anything.
BB: No. No, of course.
WT: I didn’t get to know them.
BB: No. No. No. You didn’t.
WT: No.
BB: And I suppose there was the usual horror story in the morning when you went in for breakfast and there were blank chairs. Guys didn’t come back.
WT: Yeah but then I mean people weren’t in because I was lucky I was in the mess lower ground floor. All I had to do was come out of my room turn left and right and there was the dining room.
BB: Right.
WT: So I was dead lucky. Well the bar well there was no bar because it was a peacetime mess.
BB: Sure.
WT: I mean we had to go down a little alleyway.
BB: Sure.
WT: And get served in the trap hatch as we called it.
BB: Right.
WT: The [corps?] was very good.
BB: Now inter relationships within the crew between commissioned and non-commissioned crew members? Any, now you flew as a crew and that was it but of course when you landed you went to your separate messes.
WT: Yes well the, Bruce and I were in -
BB: The other mess, officer’s mess.
WT: The other -
BB: Sergeant’s mess.
WT: Five were together in a house.
BB: In a house ok they were billeted in a house.
WT: One of the wartime houses they were in.
BB: Ok. Ok. Right. I’ve heard a lot of stories where they couldn’t mix formally on base so they went to the local pub and the crew got out all together.
WT: Well you couldn’t do it on base.
BB: No. I know.
WT: You couldn’t be walking -
BB: No. I know.
WT: Around chatting.
BB: No but I meant there was the officer’s mess and the sergeants mess.
WT: They couldn’t mix them up. No.
BB: So they went off base to do it. At least that’s what my uncle did.
WT: The only time we, the only time we mixed was the pre-ops meal.
Interview: Yeah.
WT: And usually that was the sergeant’s mess because it was bigger because of their numbers so we could join them there for the meal.
BB: That’s right.
WT: ‘We had our pre-op meal there altogether.
BB: Because you were one of the privileged guys in the Lancasters. PNB pilot/navigator/bombardier. They were the three main crew PNB and they were recruited -
WT: Ahum.
BB: You know as slightly more rigorously selected and recruited more rigorously than let’s say the gunners because you had the, had to have the education to do those jobs.
WT: Oh you did. Yes.
BB: And you had to have the right characteristics.
WT: Yeah.
BB: So -
WT: I had my London General School Certificate.
BB: Well that’s right. That’s right um well that was, that was good. Let’s see, course you came, I mean I’m not, the time you got into the squadron -
WT: Yeah.
BB: It was late ‘43 or early ’44?
WT: Do you know my memory.
BB: Yeah.
WT: It’s the age.
BB: It’s ok.
WT: Alright. My first op was on the 15th of October ‘44.
BB: ’44. So the war was, the war was still there. And -
WT: Oh yes.
BB: Still brutal.
WT: Oh yes.
BB: Bombers were still being lost.
WT: Yes.
BB: Right up to the last day.
WT: Yeah. Yeah.
BB: But was there any feeling of it can’t be long now or did you think it was just going to go on and on until it stopped. I mean did you have any sense that we were winning?
WT: No.
BB: And doing all that stuff?
WT: We were, as I said.
BB: D-day had finished of course.
WT: No, no, yeah it didn’t. D day, D-day, D-day was over, yes.
BB: Yes.
WT: When I was at OTU.
BB: Yeah but there was still, you know -
WT: Yes.
BB: Still the fighting.
WT: Oh yes well we were the old line.
BB: Still bombing.
WT: The line went further -
BB: Yes.
WT: And further back.
BB: Yes, that’s right.
WT: But there was still a line.
BB: Oh a lot of day -
WT: There was.
BB: Yeah. And did you go on any daylights? Because there were a lot of daylight raids coming in
WT: We did, we did the odd daylights. We did one, two, three. About three. No four. I think there were four -
BB: Four daylights and at that stage of the war was the Luftwaffe still effective or were they -.
WT: Hang on. The last one we did was in April.
BB: April.
WT: ‘45.
BB: Ok.
WT: That was at Nordhausen. Wherever that was.
BB: Nordhausen ok but the um but the Luftwaffe by that stage was essentially gone. I mean no fuel, and losses had been high.
WT: They were up in the air.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And I spotted and -
BB: Did you ever see any of the new jets? ME262 or -
WT: I was going to say because I spotted some one night when we were out and we couldn’t understand. We thought they were rockets and they seemed to be going straight up and this happened a couple of times. It was more over Holland.
BB: Oh the V2s coming off.
WT: No. It was, it was the -
BB: Oh the exhaust from the -
WT: New jets.
BB: The new jets. Oh ok.
WT: The new jets no the V2s had finished by that time.
BB: You didn’t, you didn’t
WT: But we, I reported it but didn’t know anything.
BB: Yeah.
WT: I just said I didn’t know what they were.
BB: Yeah ok.
WT: So that was up to them. I, I didn’t know what they were.
BB: No.
WT: Until after the war. I found out.
BB: Yes. Yes and the German night fighters were still around, prowling around um did you, did you at that time they had Junkers 88s and Messerschmitt’s 110s with the Schräge Musik. Upward firing guns.
WT: Yeah. That was yeah.
BB: When they started to appear crews would just see this massive explosion in the sky and -
WT: Ahum.
BB: Thought they’d been hit by flak. They hadn’t, they hadn’t realised that they were getting under the -
WT: No.
BB: The belly and er it took a long time for Bomber Command to actually tell the crews -
WT: Yeah.
BB: About it.
WT: We knew about it.
BB: You knew about it but it, it was a very effective night fighter technique and -
WT: We only, we used to see searchlights in the sky.
BB: Yes.
WT: And there was the old master one.
BB: Yes.
WT: The red one.
BB: Yes and that was the radar and if that locked on to you the radar guided one -
WT: That was radar but one of them was coming towards us and I was screaming to Bruce and he said give me an idea of timing and I said, ‘Now,’ and what we did then we went straight through it.
BB: Yeah.
WT: As quick we could and he went like this and he disappeared.
BB: Yeah.
WT: So in other words he’d he’ll find somebody else.
Instructor: Yeah he’d find somebody else and ‘cause once you’d been combed that was it.
WT: We did it twice.
BB: More or less. Did it twice.
WT: That happened twice.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Ahum.
BB: That was it to get out.
WT: We didn’t get fired at.
BB: Well it happened to my uncle once and he actually put the aircraft straight down the path of the searchlight as best he could.
WT: The front gunner.
BB: With the front gunner blazing like mad.
WT: I would that’s right.
BB: And quick get out of the way and that ‘cause they changed that but it was -
WT: No. But we were, we were lucky.
BB: The [line was still] well ok with the advance of the allies but the German night fighter force went on quite effectively until more or less the end were constrained by fuel at the end and losses.
WT: It was.
BB: And losses of course. But what would between the flak and the night fighters and collisions and all that sort of thing what would you say was the main, the main fear? Night fighters?
WT: I don’t think we had fear.
BB: No.
WT: I’m sorry if -
BB: You put it away.
WT: It sounds big headed but -
BB: No, no, no.
WT: I don’t. I don’t think.
BB: No. I’m not I’m not. Yeah.
WT: We knew we had a job to do. If we didn’t do it -
BB: Ok. I’ll put it -
WT: We were in trouble.
BB: I’ll put it I’ll put it another way.
WT: Yeah. Go on.
BB: When you had the intelligence briefing.
WT: Yeah.
BB: At the brief.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Obviously they briefed you on night fighter tactics
WT: Yeah
Instructor: And where the flak concentrations -
WT: Yeah.
BB: Were and your route was planned.
WT: Yeah.
BB: To avoid these things and you had Window ah Window.
WT: Window.
BB: Were you dropping Window at that stage as a regular thing?
WT: All the way. All the way we could.
BB: And you had Boozer giving you the electronic aid that latched on to the night fighter radar.
WT: I didn’t do anything about that.
BB: Ok. That must have been with the wireless op.
WT: Wireless op had that.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Because he had, he had a little book.
BB: Yeah. That’s right because the Germans countered that by finding the frequency and all the -
WT: That’s right.
Instructor: And all the rest of it.
WT: That’s right.
BB: Everything like that. It went back and forth I think on the -
WT: Yeah he had that on his table.
BB: Yes. Ok. Rebecca and Boozer and all this stuff.
WT: Yeah we had [?]
BB: Yeah but window was quite effective, yeah.
WT: We did that religiously.
BB: Yes.
WT: I was glad to get rid of it mind.
BB: Yes.
WT: Get in the blooming way.
BB: Now the, my uncle’s wireless operator, he was the warmest guy on the Lanc. Everybody else was cold but he was the warmest behind his little curtain.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Um so he was either too hot or too cold but usually hot.
WT: I was happy.
BB: You were alright in your -
WT: I was alright.
BB: Your place.
WT: Where I was.
Instructor: Could you, you were usually you were at the front of course.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah and I mean for take-off you weren’t there you were probably back -
WT: For take-off we had an arrangement. When we were on OTU -
BB: Yeah.
WT: They trained the, what do you call it, to take off with Bruce?
BB: Yeah.
WT: What’s the, God -
BB: Flight engineer.
WT: Flight engineer. Sorry, I’ve got amnesia.
BB: It’s alright.
WT: No the flight engineer he trained, he was trained to take off and land so -
BB: Yes. That’s right.
WT: Fine. Instead of me being down in the nose which was a bad place to be -
BB: Yeah, Yeah.
WT: I’d be sitting on the engineer’s seat and there were two red wheels and those were the fuel.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And they said to me if I ever saw a red light come up.
BB: Scream.
WT: Do that.
BB: Turn it off.
WT: No turn them both off.
Instructor: Yeah.
WT: And that’s what I did until he poked me in the back and he said, ‘I’ve finished Bob, now’ and I’d say, ‘Cheers.’ and I’d go back to my office. We did that. I came up to landing the same way.
BB: Right. Now again I’m sorry to go back again to my uncle’s crew because it’s, it’s not him we’re talking about but they were representative. His bomb aimer, every time they were approaching the target, the whole crew would get on you know well the captain would say, ‘Try and make it one run this time will you?’ ‘Cause you know, ‘Sorry I’ve got to go around again boss. You know it was like it was never did so it was -
WT: Never did one more round. We went in every time.
BB: Excellent. Excellent.
WT: ‘cause I think it was a question of where you were.
BB: Yes, I understand. In the bomber stream. Yes.
WT: You know, in the stream. But I never had to once.
BB: Because you know the Germans were great at having dummy markers and flares.
WT: Sure.
BB: And changing the, trying to get a feel for the aiming point and, you know.
WT: And the whole thing when you worked it out the whole cross wind.
BB: Yes. Yes.
WT: You could pick it up
Instructor: Yes,
WT: Ages before you
BB: Right.
WT: And I’d get Bruce to change so that we had a good direction.
BB: Right. Ok.
WT: And he was very good ‘cause he just used the pedals to to do
BB: [the rudder bar] yes that’s right to correct the [yaw] My uncle’s bomb aimer only went around I think twice on one target but it was, it was, it was an important one. Um ‘cause my uncle went to Peenemunde. He did the Peenemunde raid. Well he was lucky. He was in the first wave. The diversion raids had, there were no night fighters because -
WT: No.
BB: They had, they weren’t there.
WT: They were somewhere else.
BB: They were somewhere else.
WT: Yeah.
BB: But the guys in the third wave-
WT: They copped it didn’t they?
BB: They copped it. Yeah. But of course they weren’t told what it was for.
WT: We were very, very lucky. I really think we were.
BB: I think luck had a big part to play whether you survived your tour or not
WT: I think so.
BB: And that yes as well
WT: Yes.
BB: That and a great crew and a competent crew.
WT: Well our navigator was red hot.
BB: Yeah.
WT: ‘cause one day Bruce said to him, ‘Jack, why don’t you let Bill take over?’ And before I could say anything he said, Bill you don’t mind or Bobs they used to call me. ‘Bobs you don’t mind but I’d rather be responsible myself for what’s happening.’ I said, ‘I’d rather you did.’ And he did. And he didn’t want me to help with the Gee. He did it all himself.
BB: No. Yeah. Yeah.
WT: He wanted to do it all himself. No, he did it all himself.
BB: Yeah. My uncle’s navigator too. He had all these aids.
WT: Yeah.
BB: But he liked to do it himself and used Gee as a backup you know and -
WT: You know Jack was a good navigator.
Instructor: Yeah.
WT: In fact I contacted him after the war. He was over in er, on the east, west coast somewhere and I had a couple of words with him, He got taken ill and died just like that within nine months of my knowing him.
BB: Oh dear.
WT: There’s one of our crew left still here. Harry the rear gunner. He’s down in Yorkshire.
BB: Oh right I must get his -
WT: He’s not a hundred percent.
BB: No.
WT: At the moment.
BB: No.
WT: And we have a reunion of 153 but it’s got that about there’s only about two members.
BB: No.
WT: That go. It’s all the associate members.
BB: I know.
WT: But they meet every year down in err oh down the road -
BB: Scampton oh in Yorkshire. No in -
WT: Lincoln.
BB: Lincoln. Scampton, Waddington.
WT: No. In Lincoln itself.
BB: Oh Lincoln. Ok
WT: In a pub, in a, in a hotel
BB: Yes.
WT: And go to BBMF.
BB: Yes.
WT: And BBMF -
BB: Yes
WT: Bring them in.
BB: Yeah it’s great. I’ve been there.
WT: They are very much with us.
BB: I had the very great privilege of flying in the BBMF Lancaster.
WT: Did you?
BB: Yeah I was on duty as a reservist and briefing and debriefing crews. Modern crews.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And they said do you want, do you want a flight? And I said yeah. They said, ‘There’s Jacko Jackson over there.’
WT: Ah.
BB: ‘He’s the captain.’ He said, ‘Go and see Jacko.’
WT: Yeah.
BB: And he’ll fix you up and I went across and I said, I was a flying officer at the time and I said, ‘Good morning sir.’ And he said, ‘Yeah. I know about you. You’re coming with me on a one hour flip around in the Lanc.’ We were doing a test, air test of something so
WT: Ahum.
BB: It was wonderful and I told him about my uncle and all that and I went to every position except the rear gunner position.
WT: Yeah.
BB: They wouldn’t let you in there but I went mid upper gunner, I went down the bomb aimer and it was the bomb aimer’s place. It was, it was great but you get a sense of how that main spar going across could be a real hindrance if you had to get out.
WT: I’ve got some photographs I don’t know where they are now of our people in that one going over the main spar.
BB: With all the kit on?
WT: No. Well we didn’t have that. We used to throw that down over the top but there’s one of the ladies, she took over as the squadron scribe, association scribe and I still keep in touch with her and there’s one of her looking over the top and all I could see was her backside so it appeared on the thing
Instructor: Yeah.
WT: Guess who?
BB: Guess who. Because you either went out the main door at the back.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Or you went out the bomb aimers hatch at the top.
WT: Hatch.
BB: Yeah and when that, if that’s in a spin or you know it was difficult but it was difficult getting out of the Lancaster but it was quite difficult when those things -
WT: Sure.
BB: When they caught you.
WT: I say, you know, we were so lucky.
BB: Yeah.
WT: So lucky.
BB: Yeah. So did all your crew that you trained with and flew with survive the war?
WT: Yes we all survived.
BB: All survived.
WT: Together yes we all survived together and after that we were dispersed to various place
BB: Of course. Yes.
WT: I went one way, somebody went, Harry funnily enough he was a sergeant he was sent to India and he was in the post office out there somewhere and they dropped him to corporal.
BB: Yeah. That happened a lot.
WT: Terrible that was. I couldn’t understand that.
BB: Wartime temporary. Now you’re a corporal. Yes.
WT: Yeah.
Instructor: That’s right. Yeah. And err in your own case when the war finished when did you actually leave the air force? Was it ‘46 sometime or -
WT: Yeah. I think, ohI can’t remember offhand.
BB: Well just vaguely?
WT: It’s in my in -
BB: Logbook?
WT: No. It’s in my script somewhere.
BB: Oh ok. Well anyway it was most. Most were let loose by 1947.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah. Most.
WT: Where did I put my scribe script?
BB: Oh don’t worry about it but where
WT: Oh, here it is in my hand.
BB: What did they have you do in that time?
WT: Oh.
BB: Were you supernumerary somewhere or were you -
WT: No they wanted, wanted us to train as something and I trained as an equipment officer.
BB: Right ok so the whole surplus aircrew thing.
WT: Yes.
BB: Because of the war
WT: Yeah.
Instructor: They said you can go home, you’re a good bloke, you’re commissioned we need you blah blah blah but you got to remuster as something else.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And, and -
WT: And I was told that’s what I was going to be. I did a course for six weeks on equipment. Got sent to RAF Strubby.
BB: Oh I know where -
WT: Which had been -
BB: Strubby is in Lincolnshire.
WT: Coldest place on earth. Was shut down and it was ready to be everything taken out.
BB: Right.
WT: And I had a few bods there to do that and we had trucks coming out
BB: Taking -
WT: Getting rid of stuff and so on.
BB: That’s right
WT: And I had another guy ‘cause I was attached to some maintenance unit over on the coast and they sent a guy to help me Frank Wilkes bless him a brummy and we worked together and we both got our going off together so we, we, we went off down to London to get our -
BB: Right got your demob suit and out you went.
WT: I didn’t want a hat so he put his, he put my hat that I would have on. I took it outside and I gave it to - [laughs]
BB: So, ok. So you were demobbed.
WT: Yeah.
BB: After all of that. Having gone through that having gone through all that with Bomber Command being demobbed, done your trips with all the trials and tribulations and terror of what could have happened. What did you do then?
WT: I went back to my job.
BB: You went back to your job.
WT: It was reserved. I joined the health department of the Cornwall County Council in September ‘39, no August ’39.
BB: Yeah.
WT: So I was there then until I joined up but my job was held for me, my, while I was only on my two bob or whatever it was a week my pay was made up.
BB: Right.
WT: But as soon as I got more that stopped and I had to go in and pay the, pay the difference
BB: And obviously you rebuilt your life.
WT: Yeah.
BB: After that and here we are and well done.
WT: My wife, my wife was -
BB: I was going to ask about that.
WT: She was -
BB: Did you meet her in the RAF?
WT: No I met her in, at work.
BB: At work.
WT: I remember it was -
BB: Post war work.
WT: Yeah. The uniform did it.
BB: Ah the uniform did it.
WT: So what I would -
BB: It still had the pull of the air crew.
WT: Well I always went up in my full uniform.
BB: Of course you did.
WT: And it was funny when we had that grand loop.
BB: Yeah.
WT: I went home on leave. I went up to see somebody and I went in see the boss ‘cause I was his favourite. He was the first boy post boy he’d ever appointed ‘cause he was new.
BB: Ah.
WT: Dr Curnow and
BB: Curnow?
WT: Curnow same as Cornwall
BB: Yeah.
WT: Curnow.
BB: Yeah.
WT: C u r n o w.
BB: Yes I had, one of my medical officers was from Cornwall. His name was Curnow.
WT: Yeah. He, he stayed there all the time. For a long, long time and he said to me, when I’d finished I went back, and there was a brr brr and his secretary said that, ‘Yes he is.’ She said, ‘He says go in.’ He said, ‘Sit down. Have you finished?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Hold your hands out.’ He said, ‘You couldn’t do that last time you were here,’ he said, ‘You had the twitch.‘
BB: I was going to come to that
WT: [?] yeah
BB: This chap Musgrave I was telling you about. The guy that did the ninety three trips. He had a permanent twitch. It was sort of –
WT: Ahum.
BB: Like that.
WT: No. No.
BB: But he had a twitch and everybody knew you know he had been
WT: Yeah.
BB: Bomber command but he was very, not because he was boasting about it they just knew that he got out. He finished the war with DFC, DFM and God knows else what but he’d been a pre-war guy but he had a twitch and I asked him once where he got it. How it started. And he said he’d had a crash and er he survived. One or two guys didn’t and that affected him.
WT: That was, that was from when it started because he had said he hadn’t noticed it before.
BB: Yeah.
WT: He was a good chief was Doc Curnow.
BB: So
WT: I was his boy.
BB: Yeah. So these things did have a knock on, knock on affect.
WT: Sure.
BB: Now, the, and then you had all that post war thing you know getting a job, getting married, a family and all of that. Most of the Bomber Command people that I have met and indeed other wartime aircrew not just Bomber Command they never, ever talked about it for years and years. Never.
WT: I agree.
BB: And some of them really still are reticent to talk um either it’s too painful for them one way or another.
WT: I don’t know.
BB: Or it’s just that was that was a bit of my life I’ve now put it in a cupboard.
WT: That was me.
BB: And get on with life.
WT: For a long, long time.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Until eventually I joined you know the Aircrew Association and so on
BB: Yes. That’s right.
WT: Especially when I came up here.
BB: Well I mean you guys were young and you’d gone through such a lot.
WT: Ahum.
BB: And it was very hectic and life was for today.
WT: Yes.
BB: Tomorrow you didn’t know if it was going to happen.
WT: I was, I was getting, I was married.
BB: Yeah. You had responsibilities.
WT: And we had our -
BB: And other things took priority over all of that.
WT: Yes, there were.
BB: And then of course there was this post war denial about Bomber Command.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And what they did and all the rest of it. How did that make you feel? Did it make you feel angry? Did it make you feel what the hell did we do it all for?
WT: I could have killed Churchill. Easily. You know, without any argument.
BB: Because of what he did.
WT: Because of Bomber Harris.
BB: I mean they called him Butch.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Because you know but he he loved his crews and -
WT: He was, he came to Scampton once and he was great.
BB: And they loved him
WT: Yeah.
BB: Despite you know sending them off every night knowing that x number of Lancaster’s wouldn’t come back or Halifaxes or whatever. But that’s how he got his name Butch, Butcher.
WT: Yes.
BB: Butcher Harris but they seemed to get on with him.
WT: Yeah.
BB: They seemed to like, you know, his manner.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And his we’re going to do this, we’re going to do that.
WT: The one person on the squadron the squadron we didn’t like was the four ringer.
BB: The group captain.
WT: The group. He was not a nice fellow at all. We didn’t like him a bit and he used to come in to get his fags so we’d push him to the top of the queue so he could get the hell out.
BB: Did he ever fly? Did he ever go off?
WT: Yes he did a few.
BB: Yeah.
WT: He did one or two.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And he was, fortunately not with us but the AOC was there. He was -
BB: Was that Cochrane? Or Saunby?
WT: I don’t know what he was called.
BB: Yeah.
WT: He was a lovely fellow.
BB: Yeah.
WT: He had his own little [?]
BB: Yeah.
WT: In fact his WAAF
BB: Driver.
WT: No.
BB: His PA.
WT: No. Looked after him.
BB: Oh right.
WT: Looked after him. I got courting with her a bit.
BB: Ahh.
WT: Nothing like, nothing
BB: Nothing like going for the top.
WT: Untoward and one night we were saying goodnight and suddenly there was this tap on my shoulder, ‘Hurry up, don’t keep her up all night. She’s got to get my breakfast in the morning.’
BB: The morning. You said, ‘Yes sir.’
WT: Now who would have said that?
BB: They knew and, they knew and they let the guys get on with it.
WT: I saw her afterwards.
BB: In that respect.
WT: And she said that he laughed his head off.
BB: Oh that’s great. That’s great.
WT: They were a good lot.
BB: And now you’ve got your grandchildren, great grandchildren.
WT: Great grandchildren.
BB: And you’re going to be giving them your logbook and one thing and another.
WT: Paul my grandson. I’ve got a grandson and a granddaughter. Paul is supposed to inherit all my stuff.
BB: Yes.
WT: Which he will do.
BB: Yes. Good.
WT: But in the meantime.
BB: I hope you’ve written that down in a will or something?
WT: I don’t. My son knows.
BB: Ok.
WT: He knows. He’s as good as gold but Paul sorry my oldest grandson, great grandson Jack is very keen on Lancasters ‘cause they live in Lancaster.
BB: Yes of course.
WT: And he knows all about that so Jack has got lots of stuff to do with Lancasters and I said I’ve got all these books I don’t know whether I ought to be getting rid of them sometime. Pete said to me, that’s my son, the other day, ‘Dad don’t do anything until August. Jack’s coming up. He’s mad on the Lancaster’s and things, he’s got stuff all over the place so, in his room.’ so there’s four Lancaster – one, two, three, four, five books.
BB: Yeah.
WT: But you know
BB: Garbett and Goulding books.
WT: Yeah I met him and one other there and he’ll have those whatever happens. What, what about the others in the bottom lot I don’t know ‘cause the top one is all Cornwall but they’re spoken for one way or another.
BB: I have four hundred such books and I do a lot of research and I write occasionally in Flypast and other magazines um and they’re just for my own research. I mean, for example you said you were 153 I went to the books oh yes but now coming back to the controversial issue of medals.
WT: Sorry.
BB: Did you have to apply for your medals or did they come through the post eventually to you?
WT: I had to apply for them.
BB: You had to apply for them. And when did you apply for them
WT: Lord knows. I can’t remember.
BB: Yeah because they ok they had a lot to get through.
WT: No. That’s not true. I, I when I was an equipment officer before while I was still under training a bit with another thing.
BB: Yeah.
WT: I was asked to go up the headquarters somewhere and I took the logbook with me and I went through about my medals then and then I said, ‘Yes but I want the Air Crew Europe.’ ‘Well you can’t have it.’ ‘Well I said I don’t want any more.’ I went to go out and they pushed me back in again and they insisted that I had to have these four.
BB: Right, so now the, I had a very, my father knew another very nice man and his name was Slim Summerville. He had been a pre-war regular but he was a wireless operator I gather on Whitleys the one’s that flew like that -
WT: Ahum.
BB: And he hated them. But then he was shot down in November 1940 in France he made a crash landing. All the crew got out, sorry Holland, all the crew got out still fly, they flew in their number ones. Odd. But anyway they were all sitting around, standing around this aircraft trying to get it to burn and they couldn’t burn it. The Germans came. November ‘40 Battle of Britain had just finished. There they were. This Luftwaffe feldwebel came to them and said, ‘look we’ve got nowhere to put you but this Dutch, this Dutch farmer will look after you, we’ll put one of our guards there promise you won’t try and escape.’ ‘We can’t do that,’ they said but, ‘Never mind you go there.’ A month they were in this farmhouse having a life, they thought this is alright. This is ok. And then things got, they were then they were sent back in to Germany and they were sent towards the east. They were part of the great march but and he finished the war all the rest of it. When he was ill he came, I went to see him and he said, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘Bruce I never claimed my medals because I didn’t think I’d have very many being a POW but I’d like to pass them on to my grandchild.’ So I said, ‘Well ok.’ He said, ‘I can’t give you my logbook because it was when I was taken prisoner it was all lost and whatever.’ So I had to go to the National Archive in Kew and reconstruct his logbook and I took all this stuff and I said right your entitled to the Aircrew Europe, you’ve done, you’ve done all these missions between the qualifying dates of the -
WT: Yes sure.
BB: Award. Why, they said he wasn’t entitled to it. That he was only going to get the ‘39 to ‘45 star, the defence medal and a war medal. That’s all he was going to get.
WT: Oooh there’s one -
BB: Because he was -
WT: There’s one missing there really.
BB: So -
WT: France and Germany.
BB: Yeah but he was a POW. He wasn’t there.
WT: But did he -
BB: So -
WT: But he’d been doing work.
BB: Yeah but he was captured in 1940. So anyway so I went back and I said no you did x number of missions on the Whitleys you’re entitled to the Air Crew Europe so he said, ‘Well you write. I’ll give you permission and you write.’ So I wrote back to them first to air historical branch then to RAF records and they sent, they said, ‘Yes you’re right.’ So they reissued it. But with, but with the Air Crew Europe and I had them mounted for him and I took them to the hospital to see him in hospital and I pinned them to his pillow and he died three hours later. But he was so happy -
WT: Lovely.
BB: To have got them.
WT: Of course he was.
BB: Yeah. And he said -
WT: I’ve got mine here somewhere.
BB: All the rest was rubbish but Air Crew Europe’s the one so I am going to take your fight up.
WT: No.
BB: If I can do it for him, I can do it for you.
WT: Oh, there’s no point.
BB: Yes there is.
WT: I shouldn’t bother.
BB: Your grandchildren need it. I understand how you feel but if you’re entitled to it why don’t you take it?
WT: I’ve got them somewhere. I thought I had them there.
BB: Let’s have a look. Oh there they are. Right.
WT: They’re a replacement ‘cause I lost mine.
BB: Did you?
WT: And I lost the -
BB: What happened?
WT: Hmmn?
BB: What happened?
WT: I don’t know it was -
BB: They were all issued unnamed.
WT: It was in a move.
BB: They were all issued unnamed.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Now you see if I get you the Air Crew Europe. Right. Just say, let’s just say no this annoys me with the the whole medal thing you did all of that. Now I know you’re very proud and, and, and you don’t particularly want it but you earned it and this parsimonious government took their bloody time in giving you the Bomber Command clasp which I, did you ever claim it?
WT: No.
BB: Right.
WT: Yes I got that.
BB: Right.
WT: Yes.
BB: You need to sew that on.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Now, if I get you the Air Crew Europe if by chance we’re successful they’ll probably give you the Air Crew Europe with the France and Germany clasp.
WT: Ahum.
BB: ‘cause you couldn’t have both.
WT: Ahum.
BB: So you have to give that one back.
WT: I think the other one’s still there ‘cause I always said I can’t sew so
BB: So what I’m saying is they’ll probably take that one probably ask you to return that one.
WT: I’m not fussed about it you know.
BB: I’m just going through the procedure.
WT: I know.
BB: And um they that’s what they would do. Um but it is such a prestigious, it was only it was the only thing of the stars that I’ve talked to with the guys before that meant anything was the Air Crew, Air Crew Europe whether your coastal, bomber or whatever -
WT: Yes. Exactly.
BB: It was. Because they didn’t get a medal. That was only medal they actually got that was you know air force.
WT: I got mine. Those are replacements.
BB: Yes.
WT: Because -
BB: Exactly I’ll take a photo of those later.
WT: In transferring -
BB: Well -
WT: Something got lost and we never found them. I didn’t, I didn’t -
BB: Let me put it this way let me see what I can do and if I can do it you’ll take it. Right? You’ll take it if I can get it for you.
WT: Alright.
BB: Fine. Good.
WT: You’ve won.
BB: I feel very strongly about that ’cause you know medals are very emotive things even today.
WT: I won’t argue with you.
BB: No. Good. Ok well I’m going to stop the interview now. I think we’ve covered all the ground. Is there anything else you’d like to say that I may have forgotten?
WT: No.
BB: To ask?
WT: [If you]
BB: Are these your target pictures?
WT: Target pictures.
BB: Yeah.
WT: We were allowed to have those as the crew, the crew -
BB: Now -
WT: Took some as well.
BB: The other thing that used to get people a bit jumpy, ‘Have you got the flash skip? I’ve got to go around again.’ And, ‘Oh go on then.’
WT: No.
BB: Because a lot of crews were really ‘cause that was flying straight and level for a bit of a time to get that flash picture and if you missed it the first time you had to go back and at debriefing as you know once they processed the film -
WT: [?] that’s right.
BB: You were kind of ticked in the box that it was ok.
WT: The problem was the bottom of those it was -
BB: Yeah.
WT: A job to read
BB: Yeah.
WT: Very difficult to read
BB: It is.
WT: All the stuff.
BB: It is but -
WT: But the one there the first one Fort [Frederick Heindricks].
BB: Yeah.
WT: That was an aiming point.
BB: Yeah.
WT: So I was told.
BB: Right.
WT: You could see the smoke coming away.
BB: How, we hear a lot about the pathfinders and the marking and all these different marking techniques. Were they, were they good? I mean were they -
WT: They were good as far as we were concerned. We would come up and every now and again they would say please you know bomb on so and so -
BB: Yeah they had the master bomber saying forget that that’s a spoof yeah go to -
WT: That’s right.
BB: Bomb on the greens.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Bomb on the greens. That kind of thing.
WT: Yeah. We had that.
BB: Yeah and because so -
WT: And that, that’s they’re all the same
BB: Oh ground zero.
WT: That’s, no that that’s Dresden.
BB: That’s what I’m saying ground zero at Dresden
WT: I wouldn’t know. With, you can see the modern building.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And the one that’s been destroyed.
BB: Yes.
WT: A friend of mine he lives here in Morpeth and they went over to Dresden and he came back he said, ‘Bill I thought I’d take a photograph. This is what you did you B.’
BB: Well yeah tough it was a legitimate target.
WT: Oh yeah as far as I was concerned it was.
BB: Thank you very much. They’re very interesting.
WT: Yes, I, those are, you know, to me, the crew had some you know.
BB: Yeah.
WT: So -
BB: My uncle had some and they used to put them in their logbook.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Because the pilot’s logbooks were different as you know.
WT: Yeah.
BB: They were slightly bigger.
WT: Yeah well they were. That’s why mine is a bit of a mess and just written on. You know, scrolled
BB: I’ll have a look at that later. So I’m going to stop the interview now. Are you happy with that?
WT: Yes you -
BB: Ok.
WT: I don’t know if you saw those. That’s my doings. That’s, that’s how I got to know you.
BB: That’s all the stuff.
WT: And that was the newsletter. Yes.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And that’s, yeah, that’s ok.
BB: And there’s your medals back.
WT: Oh there’s, ok.
BB: Give those back to you there.
Yeah oh don’t worry about that. Oh yes that’s the Bomber Command clasp in there.
BB: Oh yes well let’s have a look, you’ve got to sew that on haven’t you?
WT: Well yes I said my daughter and grand daughter.
BB: Well why don’t you. Is it still in it’s envelope? Let me just take a picture of that ‘cause that’s you. That’s-
WT: You can undo that clip better than I can.
BB: That’s very nice.
WT: That’s what it should be.
BB: About bloody time too.
WT: I think -
BB: I was -
WT: I, I hated the thing actually it should have been a blooming thing like the other people had.
BB: Yeah. I was I was privileged in being selected to be an usher at the Bomber Command memorial opening in London.
WT: Lovely.
BB: And I was in my squadron leader stuff and all my own medals on and it was great and I was given, I was given six, three Australian, three New Zealand, three Australian and three New Zealand air crew to look after. To host.
WT: [?]
BB: Yeah and they were all of your vintage, your age, you know, now.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And they’d come all the way from Australia and New Zealand for free business class with [doorbell] New Zealand sorry
WT: That could be your wife.
BB: Could be my wife.
WT: Oh she’ll be, open the door.
BB: Oh I can get that for you sorry.
WT: No that’s alright. It could be somebody else. Hello.
Other: Hello.
WT: I’ve got someone with me. We thought it was his wife.
Other: Oh a parcel for me.
WT: Oh yes darling.
Other: That’s why I came. That’s very kind of you, Bill.
WT: That’s alright.
Other: Thank you very much indeed.
WT: I’ll keep the sixpence you’ll, I’ll send you the bill.
Other: Sixpence and you’ll send me the bill.
WT: We do things for one another.
BB: Yeah of course you do.
WT: Only around the corner. She’s a dear.
BB: Well done for that.
WT: When I came home last time from hospital I weren’t all that brilliant and she was doing shopping, she was insisting on doing my laundry and all that and I said -
BB: So -
WT: So I took a parcel in for her today.
BB: Right so -
WT: Where’s that going in there wasn’t it
BB: It’s with your medals yeah. Yeah yeah. So I’m with these guys and we’re all sitting them all down and I was getting and it was a pretty hot day and one of the Australians said ‘cause my name’s Bruce you see.
WT: Yeah.
BB: ‘Here, Brucie go and get us a beer mate.’ So I went and got them the beer and they ate this up and, ‘Here, I’m pretty hungry mate. Got any sandwiches?’ And we were going away and they said, ‘Look mate it’s getting hot here when’s this thing going to you know finish?’ I said, ‘Well, you know, the royals are going to be there. The Queen’s going to open it and so on and Prince Charles and Camilla will come and see you.’ ‘Right. Right. Ok.’ So this went on and the RAF BBMF Lancaster flew down and dropped these poppies but it got it wrong got it, slightly, slightly off track and all the poppies ended up in Piccadilly all over the place and -
WT: That’s one of them,
BB: Yes. Yes I know. I recognised that,
WT: Yeah.
BB: And this Australian looked up and he said, ‘Oh Christ the navig, the navs all wrong you know’ and, you know, ‘I suppose you can’t get the people these days’ and all that sort of talk, you know. Anyway I sent one of my little one of my helpers, one of my guys in our squadron, a corporal. I said, ‘Go and pick up as many of those as you can get.’
WT: Sure.
BB: And he met a policemen, this guy, with his helmet -
WT: Yeah.
BB: Just doing this you see and the policeman kept some in his pocket and he gave the rest to this guy so he gave each one of these guys one of the poppies and that was great but this Australian who was really quite vocal, nice bloke but he had with him a group captain Royal Australian Air Force from the embassy must have been the air attaché standing maybe just about there and you’re the guy right and he said, ‘Brucie, look when the royals come down can I ask when I’m going to get my’ dot dot ‘medal because I’m getting old and I’m going to fall of my perch mate and I’d rather like it.’ And I said, ‘Well you could but I don’t think it would be, you know, polite.’ He said, ‘[Dot dot] polite mate I’ve been waiting a long time.’ And then the group captain came across and said, ‘Look I’ve told you about that. That’s my job. Leave that to me.’ You know. Blah. ‘Well you’d better hurry up mate.’ And that was the end of that conversation and of course you get your, get the clasp.
WT: Oh dear.
BB: But it all went it all went it all went very well and every time I’m in London and I’ll be there next week I always get one of those British Legion wooden little wooden crosses.
WT: Yes.
BB: With the poppy on.
WT: Yeah.
BB: And I take my uncle’s crew and -
WT: Put their names down
BB: Just the one name. So my uncle first, then the bomb aimer, then and I put them all down and I look at the little little book they’ve got there.
WT: Yeah
BB: And its people write things down.
WT: Yeah
BB: And there’s obviously flowers. There’s things that gets me is this little one flower and an old plastic see through bag or
WT: Yeah.
BB: Something. With, ‘To Uncle George’ killed blah blah blah blah and you think gosh, you know and it’s such a focus that place for everybody to come and do stuff.
WT: Standing there with tears streaming down my eyes that day
BB: Yeah. Yeah.
WT: I couldn’t even -
BB: And I said to the Ben Fund people
WT: I shouted once, ‘Excuse me I’ve got to go to the toilet. Don’t do anything.’ [laughs]
BB: And I said to the Ben Fund guys who run it you know I hope someone collects all this stuff and takes it away.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Because -
WT: Sure.
BB: You should do a book after five years or something with all the, ‘cause they leave copies of pictures.
WT: Sure.
BB: And crew pictures and -
WT: Yeah.
BB: You know, it’s a great archive there just on its own.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah.
WT: One of their associate members who’s a bit of a B really but he rang up and said Bill I’ve got a poppy that came falling down. Did you want one? And he sent it up to me.
BB: Oh excellent.
WT: So that’s why I popped it on there.
BB: Yeah.
WT: And it keeps falling down but it fell behind one day so I put it there -
BB: I think -
WT: So it doesn’t go anywhere else.
BB: I think –
And by the way that -
BB: Yes.
WT: Is as good a representation of a lot of us coming off -
BB: Ops.
WT: Off ops yes.
BB: I’ll take a picture of that.
WT: The actual depth of that thing.
BB: Yeah. I’ll take a picture of that but -
WT: It’s terrific.
BB: I think I have at home a programme from that day. I’ll send it to you. From the Bomber memorial.
WT: I was here then.
BB: Yes I know but I’ve got -
WT: Yeah.
BB: You know I think I’ve got a number of spares. I will send it to you.
WT: But I would love to have been there.
BB: Well it was such a privilege.
WT: Two or three of our members were there.
BB: Yeah it was a privilege to be there and, and
WT: ‘cause we had a, I started a help doing it with Johnny [Johns?] on, who by the way has written a lovely book on our stuff. Did I have that out? No I didn’t
BB: That’s ok well I’ve got a feeling -
WT: That is
BB: Ok.
WT: That’s on.
BB: 153.
WT: That is done. Is on the internet somewhere or something.
BB: Is it?
Yeah.
BB: I’ll try and find it when I go back.
WT: Johnny’s done it. He’s got -
BB: When was that written? Let’s have a look
WT: Just inside is by the date its a few years ago. I don’t know if
BB: Oh here we are. April 1998.
WT: Yeah Johnny was one of the pilots that came just after when the war was more or less finished. He started just when we were just finishing the war but he became the chairman of our Association.
BB: Yes. How lovely.
WT: It’s a terrific book because it’s got -
BB: It’s a lovely book.
WT: You know you can see when everybody did everything.
BB: Yeah it was a lovely book. And it’s, it’s -
BB: It’s terrific.
BB: I have one similar for 9 squadron but not in so much detail.
WT: That, that has got every op was done and who was on it and everything else.
BB: Yes.
WT: And about all these tables.
BB: Has anybody got all these for the national -
WT: And the aircraft.
BB: We would have got these for the national archive.
WT: Oh no. No he -
BB: Logbooks.
WT: He was down there. He used to go down and, and -
BB: Yes at the archive.
WT: Yeah, he’d go down there.
BB: Oh I was down. It’s a great place to be it really is.
WT: He lived down in York way.
BB: Yeah.
WT: No he didn’t Salisbury sorry it was Salisbury ‘cause his daughter, one of his daughter is still there.
BB: Yes, That’s lovely.
WT: He used to come regularly to our dos.
BB: And you were on C flight yeah.
WT: Hmmn?
BB: C flight.
WT: No A.
BB: A flight. Ok.
WT: I was A flight. Yeah.
BB: A flight. Ok.
WT: Yeah there was -
BB: Sorry.
WT: You will see our crew there somewhere.
BB: Yes. I’m just looking for it here.
WT: Bruce Potter at the top.
BB: Potter’s crew eh.
WT: Did you not see it?
BB: Yeah hold on.
WT: He was on A flight.
BB: Potter.
WT: Almost where you had your thumb there.
BB: Potter.
WT: Is it over that side somewhere?
BB: Oh here he is. Potter. There we are.
WT: Yeah.
BB: I’ll take a note of that.
WT: His name was Bruce.
10859
BB: Well he’s got an Australian name mate.
WT: Certainly has, yes mate.
BB: Except mine’s more Scottish than Australian. In fact one of my objectives for this when I was down here my uncle who was the Australian he married my mother’s sister ‘cause I was born in Gainsborough which is Bomber Command Hemswell not too far from Hemswell.
WT: Yes, Hemswell. Yeah.
BB: And my brother was born in Newark and my, this Australian pilot was courting my mother’s sister while he was on ops but he wouldn’t marry her while he was on ops ‘cause he didn’t feel, he’d had so many young ladies coming to the mess after their husband’s had died and he wouldn’t do it. He said he would marry her when he’d finished ops but he was killed instructing and they were only married four months but my cousin was born you know shortly thereafter well you know nine months later basically and so he, he was born in the place where I was brought up by my grandmother at Coldstream in Berwickshire and the family claimed, the family claimed the body.
WT: Oh yeah.
BB: And he was brought up by train to Cornhill station and lay overnight in the family house and my grandfather had, was a commander of the local home guard having been an old soldier and he wanted to open the coffin ‘cause it lay in the front room with a flag on it and my mother was a nurse and my mother said I don’t think we should do that ‘cause he was burnt. She knew he had been burnt and so they didn’t do it. They said let’s just remember him.
WT: As we thought he was.
BB: As we was and when the guys came up from, from the RAF station he was at for the funeral his widow, my aunt, said I’d like his watch or his flying jacket please. Sorry all we’ve got is this this and which you’ll get from the committee of adjustment and they’ll send to you and all the rest but so when you go to this little Scottish cemetery you’ll see this Australian AF war grave.
WT: Right.
BB: That’s him.
WT: That’s him. Well I never.
BB: But he was only twenty one and the last time his mother saw him was when he was seventeen and a half to leave, leave Australia to come home come here.
WT: Yeah.
BB: You know.
WT: Yeah.
BB: It was just one of those awful things.
WT: What are you trying to do there?
BB: He had finished his, he had finished his, his ops and was screened and funny you know the crew all got together you know.
WT: Ah huh.
BB: And they said, ‘We’ll go on pathfinders. We’re safer on pathfinders than we are instructing.’ And that was the view and he said, ‘No, I can’t. I’ve got to, I want to get married and I’m not going to that.’ but if he had done that he probably would have been alright.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Exactly.
BB: There we go. It wasn’t to be I suppose. These things are always -
WT: Yeah.
BB: Sad.
WT: Sent to, sent to try us.
BB: They are. Well Bill thanks very much.
WT: That’s alright my friend.
BB: And I’ll be back I’m sure if I’m down this way again. It’s so lovely to talk to you.
WT: Yeah.
BB: There’s all your bits.
WT: Yeah. You’ve got, you’ve got the medals.
BB: I’ve got that picture you leant me and I’ll send that back when I get home tonight and I’ve got -
WT: You didn’t, you didn’t take the medals.
BB: No. No.
WT: No.
BB: No you’ve got them. Better check I don’t want you to, there they are in the bag
WT: That’s alright, they’re in the bag.
BB: They are in your just check please just check. No, no, no I haven’t got them. There they are
WT: I don’t know why, yeah they’re there such as they are.
BB: Well we’ll try and change that.
WT: I’m never bothered about medals.
BB: No. Well a lot of people don’t but the gran
WT: I’m not a medal man.
BB: No. A lot of people weren’t but you know there’s things like grandchildren who, who -
WT: Well. Paul -
BB: You’ve got, you’ve got your grandchildren now.
WT: My grandson.
BB: Who you would obviously like.
WT: They’re down in Salisbury at the moment I’m hoping they’re going to move a bit nearer but he’s interested but his nephew bless him is he’s only seven and a half at the moment.
BB: Yeah.
WT: But there’s a photograph of him up there. Jack. He’s very, very keen on it. Very keen.
BB: Well so he should be. It’s a great honour that you’ve done this.
WT: There’s the office.
BB: There’s the office, that’s right.
WT: These were, these were taken from the just, what is she called the one over, Just Jane over there in, we used to go down there a lot to the Panton Brothers where they’ve got the aircraft that taxies around.
BB: Yeah. Ok what have I got to do here now?
WT: [yawn] excuse me. This is all to do with the Lincolnshire arrangement that going, the spire’s gone up hasn’t it?
BB: Not yet. No, no, no, not -
WT: Oh I thought they’d already lifted it because our lot were down on oh a month and a half ago to their, to the reunion and that was the day when it was going to be delivered. They moved, had to move away because time was going on they’d only just got down the road and they saw it going back up.
BB: Right.
WT: Just coming. So they couldn’t do anything about it.
BB: No.
WT: I thought they said they put it up that night. Erected it.
BB: What? The spire?
WT: Yeah.
BB: In Lincoln?
WT: Yeah.
BB: Well to tell you the truth it might have done but I haven’t heard of it yet but -
WT: Well I thought that’s what they it had happened. They brought that in and the lorries or whatever was carrying it were going to get it upright for them to to anchor it down or whatever. I don’t know. Because they are going to build a great big wall around it aren’t t they with the name of the people who died
BB: Yes
WT: Or were killed. So [they’ll have old Giffords?] down on that one bless him. My room-mate.
BB: Oh God. There’s more bumph here.
WT: Cost you more money now.
BB: Yeah. Yeah. Right so we’d better get on with the paperwork. Let me just have a look at it
WT: Oh I thought you’d done it.
BB: No I’ve just been reading it here so we’ll better get on with it. Won’t be a minute. I think I’ll just call my wife up I’m a bit worried about her. See where she is
WT: I was going to say from my bedroom you can probably see the car.
BB: So when’s your next medical people coming in. When, when do they come in, every day to see you?
WT: No. No. No Wednesday is the day when everything normally happens.
BB: Yeah.
WT: At the moment I’ve got ear trouble but I’m off for another week but on Wednesday they come in to change your leg bag and do all kinds of things so I have to watch it but I’m alright I’m off for the next week or two I’m not doing too badly.
BB: Hi Jeannie. It’s me. I’m finished with Bill. I wonder if you could come back to to look at this documentation. It might need a witness. I’m not sure. Ok I’ll call you later. Or you can give me a call now. Thanks bye.
WT: Oh you’ve left her a message have you?
BB: Yeah she’s -
WT: Oh.
BB: She’s probably walking the dog.
WT: Stay where you are I think I can see the car from here.
BB: Ok thanks.
From the bedroom.
[pause]
WT: No the trees are in the way. I said the tree is in the way.
BB: Oh its William [Headley] Thomas isn’t it?
WT: [Headley].
BB: Oh that’s worth, that’s worthy of a photograph.
WT: Oh I don’t know I was just going to show you that. They were taken more or less the same time. You see what she’s wearing?
BB: Yes.
WT: A new pair of wings.
BB: Oh that’s lovely. May I take a picture of that one?
WT: Oh, go on. You don’t want that man.
BB: Yes I do. You’re, now that, now that you’ve been interviewed my dear boy you are now part of the national archive.
WT: Don’t.
BB: You are going to be in the Bomber Command archive.
WT: Am I?
BB: Yeah, you are.
WT: I thought, I thought it was the Lincolnshire.
BB: Yeah but it’s going to the University of Lincoln.
WT: Yeah.
BB: Yeah.
WT: Yeah.
BB: But that’s why we’ve got to sign this other stuff.
WT: While you’re doing that it’s happened again this damned bag.
BB: Oh I’m sorry.
WT: No it’s alright ‘cause it just happens like that I have a big bag to put on the end of it at night thank God.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Bill Thomas
Description
An account of the resource
Bill had joined the Air Defence Cadet Corps and Air Training Corps. He volunteered as a pilot in the Royal Air Force and flew Tiger Moths at RAF Sywell but was re-mustered as a navigator. Bill went to Canada as part of the Empire Air Training Scheme, where he did bomb aiming, gunnery and navigation training. He was offered a commission and did some special training on Prince Edward Island before going to the holding unit at Moncton.
Bill returned to Scotland and converted to bomb aiming. He crewed up at RAF Castle Donington and went to RAF Sandtoft and RAF Hemswell to the Lancaster Finishing School. Bill was transferred to 166 Squadron at RAF Kirmington, flying Lancasters. They then went to RAF Scampton as 153 Squadron. Bill conducted 29 operations and one which was aborted because of engine problems. Bill then trained as an equipment officer, being sent to RAF Strubby. He then demobilised and returned to his job in local government.
The interview discusses relationships between commissioned and non-commissioned crew, Bill’s thoughts on Dresden, Bomber Command and Arthur Harris, and the awarding of medals.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AThomasWH150711
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Canada
Alberta
Ontario
Ontario--Toronto
Prince Edward Island
Québec
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Harrogate
England--Hastings
England--Lancashire
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--London
England--Manchester
England--Northamptonshire
England--Redruth
England--Sussex
England--Yorkshire
Scotland--Wigtown
Wales--Aberystwyth
Germany
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dresden
Germany--Kassel
Germany--Kleve (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
New Brunswick
New Brunswick--Moncton
United States
New York (State)
New York (State)--New York
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-11
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bruce Blanche
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:19:53 audio recording
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
153 Squadron
166 Squadron
aerial photograph
aircrew
bomb aimer
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
crewing up
ground personnel
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Heavy Conversion Unit
lack of moral fibre
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
memorial
observer
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
promotion
RAF Bicester
RAF Castle Donington
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kirmington
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Scampton
RAF Strubby
RAF Sywell
target photograph
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/141/1679/PBanksP15010153.1.jpg
af58a6448ef583b50a5fdc335997066e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Banks, Peter. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
134 items. The album contains pictures taken at RAF Methwold and Feltwell, Battles in France as part of the RAF Advanced Air Striking Force in 1940, 2 Group target photographs, and Venturas and Photographic Reconnaissance Unit Spitfires. There are also a number of aerial photographs of cities and targets in the Ruhr and the Low countries taken at low level during a sightseeing Cooks tour after VE Day. <br /><br />Return to the <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/140">main collection</a>.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One photograph album
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBanksP1501
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Watergate Bay, burning Wellington and trophies
Description
An account of the resource
Top left an aerial incline photograph of cliffs and beach. On the left side cliffs and beach border the sea. In the centre a small village in a valley leading down to the beach. To the right open farmland. Caption 'Watergate Bay Nr Newquay'.
Bottom left a rear quarter view of a Wellington burning on the ground. All fabric has been burned with just geodetic structure remaining. Caption 'One of a/c did not take-off'.
Right a photograph rotated and showing canteen cutlery, dinner service and other trophies. Caption 'Trophies won by F/Sgt Duffy (pilot)'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs mounted on an album page
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PBanksP15010153
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Newquay
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Geolocated
aerial photograph
crash
take-off crash
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/156/1973/PCushwayAW16020013.1.jpg
34367dc9a511bb02e04f584dd49d2826
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cushway, Arthur
A W Cushway
Description
An account of the resource
55 items. This collection concerns Sergeant Arthur William Cushway (1913 - 1942, 1285306 Royal Air Force). Arthur Cushway was a wireless operator / air gunner and was killed when his Stirling from RAF Waterbeach failed to return from an operation to Hamburg. The collection contains a photograph album, his service record and 52 photographs. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lester and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.<br /><br />Additional information on Arthur Cushway is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/206596/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cushway, AW
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Headland Hotel
Description
An account of the resource
A view across a sandy bay. In the background is a village and the Headland Hotel, Newquay
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW16020013
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cushway, Arthur. Family photographs
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/156/1974/PCushwayAW16020014.2.jpg
7ed7434d179c3a321bd0bac5a931cdc6
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cushway, Arthur
A W Cushway
Description
An account of the resource
55 items. This collection concerns Sergeant Arthur William Cushway (1913 - 1942, 1285306 Royal Air Force). Arthur Cushway was a wireless operator / air gunner and was killed when his Stirling from RAF Waterbeach failed to return from an operation to Hamburg. The collection contains a photograph album, his service record and 52 photographs. <br /><br />The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lester and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.<br /><br />Additional information on Arthur Cushway is available via the <a href="https://internationalbcc.co.uk/losses/206596/">IBCC Losses Database</a>.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Cushway, AW
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Access Rights
Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies.
Permission granted for commercial projects
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Crantock beach
Description
An account of the resource
A view across a sandy bay. In the background is a low headland.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW16020014
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
Is Part Of
A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included.
Cushway, Arthur. Family photographs
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/161/2026/PCushwayAW16010003.2.jpg
85cdb7940d7aa07b4ce0b1a731ea4766
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cushway, Arthur. Album
Arthur Cushway's photograph album
Description
An account of the resource
28 items. A photograph album with multiple pages. It contains pictures taken during Arthur Cushway's aircrew training in Great Britain and in Canada. Subjects include airmen and aircraft and sightseeing in Great Britain and North America, including Niagara Falls, Ontario, New York and Reykjavik in Iceland.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lester and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW1601
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[names of those present on the photograph]
Harvey, Wallis, McNiven, Chandler, Sinclair, Salt, Munro, Drew, Siddall, Tolmic, Cushway, Morris.
[underlined]Feb. 1941[/underlined]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Observers (U/T) Journey
Babbacombe Empty corner, First Flying Kit and The Harbour, Babbacombe
Description
An account of the resource
The first photograph is a terrace with a wooden fence and trees, captioned 'Empty Corner, Babbacombe, Devon Feb 1941'. The second is a group of 12 men in Sidcot suits, captioned 'First Flying Kit "C" Flight, No 1 Squadron 8 I.T.W. Newquay Cornwall'. Their names are listed. The third is a view of the harbour with a small jetty and cliffs. Captioned 'The Harbour Babbacombe Devon Feb 1941'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941-02
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs on an album page
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW16010003
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Training Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Devon
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Newquay
England--Torquay
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-02
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
David Bloomfield
aircrew
observer
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/161/2027/PCushwayAW16010004.1.jpg
97dafede2b3eabebb3c5dabf490b2508
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cushway, Arthur. Album
Arthur Cushway's photograph album
Description
An account of the resource
28 items. A photograph album with multiple pages. It contains pictures taken during Arthur Cushway's aircrew training in Great Britain and in Canada. Subjects include airmen and aircraft and sightseeing in Great Britain and North America, including Niagara Falls, Ontario, New York and Reykjavik in Iceland.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lester and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW1601
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Group of 51 Airmen
Description
An account of the resource
51 airmen positioned in four rows in front of The Highbury Hotel, Newquay. Captioned '"C" Flight, No 1 Squadron. No 8 I.T.W. Newquay, Cornwall Feb-Apr 1941'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph on an album page
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW16010004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Training Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Newquay
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/161/2028/PCushwayAW16010005.1.jpg
1b0cd5f55dd840ee794c21574573c988
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cushway, Arthur. Album
Arthur Cushway's photograph album
Description
An account of the resource
28 items. A photograph album with multiple pages. It contains pictures taken during Arthur Cushway's aircrew training in Great Britain and in Canada. Subjects include airmen and aircraft and sightseeing in Great Britain and North America, including Niagara Falls, Ontario, New York and Reykjavik in Iceland.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lester and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW1601
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cornwall and Devon
Description
An account of the resource
Cornwall and Devon scenes. The first is of a bay with The Headland Hotel above houses. Captioned ' Newquay, Cornwall'. The second is of a rocky island and cliffs, captioned 'Off Pentire Head, Cornwall, Apr 1941'. The third is of a bay and headland taken through trees. There are houses and a jetty in the distance. Captioned 'Babbacombe, Devon Feb. 1941.'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941-02
1941-04
1941-07
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs on an album page
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW16010005
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Newquay
England--Torquay
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Devon
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-02
1941-04
1941-07
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/161/2032/PCushwayAW16010009.1.jpg
b4f3518db679600a7d7bb9ce8ac2ebe7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Cushway, Arthur. Album
Arthur Cushway's photograph album
Description
An account of the resource
28 items. A photograph album with multiple pages. It contains pictures taken during Arthur Cushway's aircrew training in Great Britain and in Canada. Subjects include airmen and aircraft and sightseeing in Great Britain and North America, including Niagara Falls, Ontario, New York and Reykjavik in Iceland.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Lester and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PCushwayAW1601
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Four airmen in Sidcot suits
Description
An account of the resource
Four airmen in sidcot suits, one sitting on a low wall, three standing. One airman is smoking a pipe. They are carrying their helmets and goggles. On the reverse 'Tolmie, Morris, McNiven, Siddall, No 8 I.T.W. Apr.1941'. Also 'Tolmie 1 Siddall 3 Macniven 2 Morris 1'
Additional information about this item has been kindly provided by the donor.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1941-04
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Identifier
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PCushwayAW16010009, PCushwayAW16010010
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Training Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Newquay
England--Cornwall (County)
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941-04
aircrew
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/233/3376/AColensoF170522.1.mp3
62f276f7578995b81676e568202f437e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Colenso, Frank
Frank Colenso
F Colenso
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Frank Colenso.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Colenso, F
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
PL: Hello and, and first of all an enormous thank you. My name is Pam Locker I’m in the home of Mr Frank Colenso of [redacted]. Frank it’s wonderful that you have agreed to talk to us today and so a big thank you on behalf of the Bomber Command digital archive.
FC: Thank you for inviting me.
PL: It’s a pleasure.
FC: To do that.
PL: So, I guess what I, where I’d like to start Frank is to ask you a little bit about your family and, you know, a little bit about your childhood.
FC: Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I come from a very old Cornish family. There’s a lot of names with ‘o’ on the end but we’re not Italian. My, I was brought up in Falmouth in Cornwall. My dad was a boiler maker in the Falmouth docks. So, I was a young lad at school, in the scouts, a choir boy in the Parish church. A boy scout for many years and then when I started work at fourteen it was as a recovery porter on the Falmouth Packet weekly newspaper. So, the, the reporter there was Alan, doesn’t matter, he was, I, I started the job in February 1939, when I was fourteen and a half and left school. So, on the newspaper, Alan the reporter was showing me the ropes and he was in the territorial associate, the territorial army so as we went through 1939 and the war was imminent in the UK and Alan was off to war so for, for the next two years I was on my own as a, but it was a wartime rationing of paper we had not a lot of space for much news mostly it was funerals and whist drives and things like this, council meetings and such. So, then when the war broke out that year and Dunkirk happened with all the rescue allied forces from the Dunkirk area, scores of ships came into Falmouth Bay and they off loaded and the soldiers, and they were processed and given some clean clothes I guess and put on the train. So constant trains going up country from Falmouth. And my mother was a red cross nurse at the time and she was nursing these survivors from that awful time. Very much a, upset by the soldiers especially those who had swallowed fuel oil in sea water, in a bad way. So, here we are 1940 and Falmouth was bombed. The town was bombed, people killed and because the Germans were on our doorstep almost the reaction the day afterwards for hundreds and hundreds of men to join the local defence volunteers along with us young lads. Not quite sixteen some of us, so but they took us all on into the local defence volunteers and started to give us something to do. In the initial few days we were cycle patrol with an old vicar with his automatic from World War 1 which only had about eight rounds. He was our leader, so we drove, rode around the high ground round Falmouth at night, especially at night. Watching out for people setting up lights to align a bomber with say Falmouth harbour or the town or whatever. But I think the Germans wouldn’t possibly not wrecked Falmouth all the dock and repair facilities so they aimed for the town. Because they wanted a deep-water harbour and that Falmouth is the only one down that way. So that was background. We were well trained. We immediately had the sergeants all had tommy guns. The officers had side arms, the revolvers or automatics. We had American Springfield 300 calibre rifles with fifty rounds of ammunition in, in a cloth round our ear and we were well trained. We were always at the range shooting regularly and when we were kitted out gradually with uniform, boots and everything a soldier has. Well almost everything. We were well trained we was parade nights twice a week. Firing on a range Saturday afternoon. They formed us into platoons and they started at night guards around six different parts around the town from the looking across the bay to the high ground and along the low ground on the little Penryn river. So that was a pattern of my Home Guard thing was every six nights night guard. Along with that we would do with the Army exercises with the Army which got us used to the whole area around Falmouth because we drove to all the little paths and by ways and short cuts and where the high hedges were. So, you could form an ambush then. Throw all the stuff you had on with a few little turnips from the field and then just disappear because that’s the point about you really you don’t stand and fight. You get them worried that wherever they go there’s a shadow that might be us or somebody else. So that was the pattern of it. But we were well armed, we had, we had grenades and [unclear] bombs. We had mortars, spigot mortars that could fire twelve pound or eighteen pound bomb. We had what we called Vickers machine guns. The newest guns which was like an aircraft type gun, 300 calibre. We had something like phosphorus bombs. One of the bombs had five-pound weight of gelignite in it in a glass sphere. There was sticky bombs which you threw and if you threw them hard enough you took the covering off to stick on things and explode. We’d have done ourselves no favours using these things, but this was desperate times. The Germans had come right through across into France, all up as far as Norway and down towards the whole French Coast. And we were next, they were unstoppable except they had to defeat the Air Force before they could think of crossing the Chanel. So that was the pattern of the first bombing of Falmouth started the Battle of Britain, early July 1940. So that was the bombing in Falmouth. We got used to it. You were, took notice of the, the air raid warning the warbly siren and you dressed, undressed very tidily because we only had candles in the bedrooms and of course in air raid you don’t light up candles you’d got to be able to put your clothes on in the dark. So, you took your clothes off and laid them out in the right order and you were the worse and we got dressed. We had a little attaché case with odds and things in case you were blown out of your house and we took shelter next door in Cliff Roberts’ house. We were a terrace house, he’d built a huge air raid shelter in his garden. Being a deep-sea diver from the docks he’d brought a great lorry load of wood home, dug a big hole in the garden, lined it and covered it over with massive beams and that’s — Dad sawed through the fence to make a little gate. So, air raid meant we dressed, took our little attaché cases, went downstairs, through the gate into the shelter and the next-door below us was a tug boat skipper, one of the Falmouth harbour tugs. He dug a big hole, helped by his two sons and cleverly when they got a bit tired, I suppose, Mr White would find a half crown, so that made the boys do a bit more digging. And I realised, I didn’t think about it, I thought that was real treasure they were finding but I think the crafty Dad he wanted to [laughs] keep them shovelling. So, he was — that was the pattern of bombing. We weren’t allowed to write up about things like that in the newspaper but inevitably wrote about the funerals. One occasion which I didn’t put in my diary, if you imagine a stick of bombs, a stick of four bombs, one landing, I think on the boards, boarding house school. Anyway, it wrecked that school. One was in the quarry. The next one was, we were exactly in line, the next one was a hundred yards away which flattened a house and killed the occupants. So that was a narrow escape. In the early bombing as well in Falmouth my pal who was in the scouts with me and at school, Jeff Maynard. He was in Lister Street with, along with two relations who had come down from London to escape the bombing and that particular raid, parts of the town, his house was completely blown apart and collapsed on them. They were under the stairs which was a strong point, recommended to be and the gas main had been fractured. The water system pipes were broken, so they were faced with the water and gas leaking. They were dug out by the rescue, volunteer rescue parties and luckily not requiring hospital treatment. They were found a house in the, in the country about three or four miles away in Constantine and now Jeff was due to start work in — where my brother worked in Burts the electricians which was only three hundred yards from his house, so when this happened, he had to get the bike out. But we were all cyclists. We cycled patrol. Only lasted a few, a few weeks to give us something to do. But we were well trained. We had Army instructors, we had all these weapons that we learnt. We did grenade throwing and mortar usage, using mortar. So then and along with this night exercises perhaps which meant we’d just come off night guard because of six nights, each day was different and there was an exercise that started Saturday afternoon with the Army and ran all through the night until Sunday morning when they hoped to finish it, so we could get home for our Sunday dinner. That was the pattern of it. So, you were very tired at times but that was it, that’s normal to be quite — and you were cold sometimes on guard because, it was before we had greatcoats, we would have a blanket round our shoulders, patrolling along the cliffs. With these little glow worms sometimes but for the first bit of a town boy your night sky is just a few stars here and there but when you are out in the country and there is no other light from anything else that big ball in the sky is something you’ve never seen before. So, this was the pattern. Along with this was all the newspaper work, meetings, council meetings all sorts of evening affairs. I had to write about court cases and I was getting half a crown a week. I, I started as an apprentice you see, and I was bringing myself up really. Well I was on my own. So, this was six pence a day but I was never broke. I think I gave my money, my mother something as well and we were lucky. The Cornish Echo was the paper that operated from Falmouth and I was very friendly with Bill Ward their reporter and of course typically we worked together. We always met at court cases and things. In fact, for court cases, if I sent my copy up to the Western Morning News by putting it on the train I was paid a penny a line and I was often getting more with my, whatever you call it, sending my material up to them than I was [laughing] but then that was [unclear] no [unclear] really. So, with the, with the shooting I became quite expert. I was a sniper, we were snipers in the, in my platoon, and so that when — later on it was time to decide what I wanted to do because conscription was looming and if you could volunteer before then you went where you chose to go. So, my pal Bill had — older than I, he was a grammar school boy, so better suited to be training as a reporter really, than a young lad with me like I was. Now, he was a bomb aimer on 50 Squadron later on. My other pal, Nick, whose father was in the Bristol Aeroplane Company a roaming repair and modifications man, he was down on — working on [unclear]. On a Beaufighter. And he said if you come down to the Lizard Peninsular where the big scanners are now, you come down and I’ll show you round the Beaufighter. And whatever else is there so. These, these places weren’t fenced. So, you just came across and of course it’s a treat for young lads of fifteen or sixteen to get inside an aircraft like the Beaufighter for instance. Anyway, he showed us around the, also Vulcan and Hurricane which was another fleet. So, later on Nick’s dad said I’m going to take you up to London, he said I’ll ensure you get on the train I shall meet you at Exeter where you change, and we’ll go to the Windmill Theatre, there’s something to somebody, somewhere we can stay so that then this happened. We went to the Windmill Theatre which was a, we never close was the motto. And the attraction there was the nude, the nudes on the stage. So [laughs] but they weren’t moving, they weren’t allowed to move just graceful poses. So, you can imagine that with the gauzy screens, I suppose, in front. I can’t remember quite but no doubt a clever way of screening the fine detail of them and then when there was a little interval and people were leaving in the rows of seats. If there was an empty seat in front of you the men would clamber over to get into it because when they had a few intervals they got nearer and nearer the action [laughs] or the inaction [laughs]. So that was one episode and my memory I took away of all things, not about the nudes but about Vic Oliver, who’s the son in law of Churchill who was a comedian and played a violin and he could do most marvellous things with that violin. He could make it laugh [laughs] which had us in hysterics really to hear himself. This was the world of darkness it was then during the war. So back home again it wasn’t long before Mick’s dad said you get a job in the, in the Bristol Aeroplane Company because with all you do your in work, you’re in your workshop all the time making things. Because I made a half scale tommy gun for Nick’s nephew and in fact, because I could copy the detail in, I was obviously capable of making it from scraps of things. I made myself early on a practice rifle. The right weight of ten or eleven pounds to strengthen up my old muscles because I was a little weedy eight and a half stone when the, in 1939. Later on, when I went to join the Air Force I was well over, well about ten stone plus. So, I did volunteer, no I did go to Weston-super-Mare for an interview and of all things to show how nimble and clever I was with my fingers I brought a cigarette lighter that I’d made, not really knowing that this was a joke. Everybody around the country would say all they do is make cigarette lighters in the factories so anyway the, then I had a letter to take me on and then I had another letter. The, all our recruiting has been taken over by the government so that agreement is not valid now. So that’s when I joined, I volunteered to be an air gunner. Went to the normal medical at Plymouth and then later on went to Oxford for an aircrew medical when they discovered that my left eye was below standard and my right ear. So, thinking back all these seventy odd years later really, that, that saved my life, that bad eye saved my life really because as we know half of the Bomber Command people never came back. So that was, so as I was unfit for aircrew and so stamped on my document, I believe, then I could have a choice of what I wanted to do. What trade for instance. And I chose to be airframe. Airframe mechanic to start with because Nick’s dad said if you’re an airframe fitter, it’s a use, such a useful thing to know and after the war you can turn your hand to anything. And, in fact, it proved right really. So that was my time when I was called up go to Padgate up around Manchester way, I believe, as a recruit to be kitted out and do a bit of marching about, I guess and, so that was the first time that I was in a hut with about twenty odd others. But really as I had been in the Home Guard with sleeping in a guard room every six nights with the noise that goes on and the bustle that happens at times, it’s no big deal. Same as being shouted at on the parade ground, that was nothing new. Whereas it was bit of a great culture shock for a lot of chaps first coming into it. So, I took all that in my stride. So, the recruits then, new recruits were off to Blackpool, billeted in the landladies houses, you would first of all when you arrived and got, got into a situation where you marched down these streets. They would halt and right fourteen of you in here. That’s how they set you off in the different houses and the landladies were I’m sure occupied all through the war. Which is why they were after the war able to have so many marvellous changes, I would guess that happened. So that was it, but you see Blackpool was marvellous it was the only place, one of the seaside places that civilians could come to. The aircrew chose Torquay as their initial training and Torquay itself was barred from anybody coming, the beaches were all mined, mined here and there. Well a lot of mines and they had big obstacles to prevent ships landing, landing ships coming in. So, but Blackpool with all its electric trams going up and down the long, long coast sparkling away at night, must have been a great giveaway. But often the Germans didn’t get across that far. So that was a marvellous place, four shillings a day was our pay, I think, but beer was I think, maybe went up to nearly a shilling a pint. Anyway, imagine the tower, Blackpool Tower, now inside the marvellous ballroom and we couldn’t dance but there were nine bars there and they were so busy, if you, when you wanted to get a drink you were, there was two deep in front of you at least and close packed, trying to catch a barmaid’s eye. Anyway,but it was such a friendly place and when Christmas came and New Year this was a great place where a lot of kissing went on and hugging and kissing so good for us young lads it was a real eye opener really ‘cause we weren’t into girls before then, we had boys’ things to do. We had the Home Guard to keep us busy. So, this was an adventure then. So, one of these girls was from Bury in Lancashire, an ATS girl. Yes, we palled up and I saw her a few times. Only kissing and cuddling, nothing beyond that. And then later on, a year later on in Burma when I found this tower, Blackpool Tower beer label and on the back, she’d written her address. So, I started corresponding and we had lovely exchange of letters and she was a great poet. She would write marvellous poetry. And then another girl that I was also friendly with later on, in Wellington, I wrote her, and that was a nice little friendly exchange of letters but that’s digressing really. This early recruit training, stamping of feet around the [unclear] whereas out on the parade ground there was a lot of swearing went on. In Blackpool ‘cause you’d march around the streets and did your square bashing there the, the one in command had to watch his, watch his language. But he often marched us to a particular café for the break time, so that meant he would have his free, free [unclear] and we paid a tuppenny of course. We had to have a bath Fridays, Fridays and Mondays because they would march us to the big communal baths there with a swimming pool of course, that was a great attraction. Derby Baths, I think. So, we did our training there, the assault courses. We were shooting, we were running around, which was making us fit. Basically, it was keeping us fit. And also, when you think, stop to think about it on a parade ground when you respond to every order immediately that sets you up for the pattern of the future when you do, you respond to what your asked to do without question. That’s the point of it I think. And then from there I went to Western-super-Mare where Locking is the training, one of the schools of technical training. So that was in the summer of forty-three I suppose. Yes, it was. And we were in huts there and in the mornings when we woke up and had breakfast we marched to the, where the school was with a band in front of us. So, this was a great place for being a seaside place, a lot of people there. It was in the summer especially but we spent a lot of money on the dodgem cars. It eats up your money really when you don’t get much a day [laughs]. Cuts down your money for beer or cider and then one time coming from a local village, walking back west to Locking I kept wanting to take my greatcoat off, lay it on the white line on the road and lie down on it. So that was, I had to be dissuaded of that was not a good idea. Because all the vehicles headlights were havoc, were completely masked except for a narrow slit which was guarded from going upwards by a, like a peak of a cap.
PL: Um.
FC: So, they didn’t produce much light so that was I’ll explain why it’s there, I would do as I was told. But the cider was a powerful drink [laughs]. So, from there a group of us, we were all airframe mechanics, we went, we were sent up to, to, to Shropshire, to Peplow. An airfield which was half way between Wellington and Market Drayton. Wellington is now Telford. The big city of Telford since we were there. And this was, we were, we went there as part of 83 Operation Training Unit, because Wellington twin engine bombers but we hadn’t got any. So those early weeks we were, I suppose, the advance, in advance of the advanced party, really, ‘cause they were recycling themselves from Wales where they were based to there so we were getting things ready. Did meet my old friend who, when I got, I can see his face now, the morning after I got the worse for wear I can see that disgust on his face now. So that’s a reminder that I shouldn’t, couldn’t, shouldn’t drink too much [laughs]. So that was a, a waiting time, working and waiting. We only had one Wellington there in a hangar with both wings off so and that wasn’t anything to learn from. Anyway, they did come and we settled in to some work then with the flying, daily inspections before flight, before flight the inspections turn round inspections and after flight inspections. Flying night time as well because they were doing navigation and working the crew up to a, to work together as part of it. So, but we only had a few other visiting aircraft come so it was only the Wellingtons and about time when they came back, we had all the engines had to be covered every night with a big, like an aluminium cover, balloon fabric with asbestos patches where it would come over the hot exhaust pipes. So that was a task at night in the wind trying to get these covers on.
PL: What was that for Frank?
FC: The reason for covering them over was to keep the moisture out of the engine otherwise the electrics, I think that was a good reason and they wouldn’t — the oil wouldn’t be, wouldn’t be as cold because turning over, if the oil is thick and cold it takes more effort to turn it over by the starter motor so there’s a reason for it. So really, we didn’t have real contact with the crew. We just helped, just supported the ladder as they climbed in, I guess and normal conversation I expect but no, not much memory of any detail of them. But once starting, once started and the signal for chocks away we pulled the chocks away, waved it off and did our salute as they moved, as they gathered speed, so and this main runway, though I think it was newly, newly made because it was completely tarred with, tarred with a black pitch and then covered with oak chips, oak wood chips which were then rolled in. Now, what that was for, thinking back afterwards, partly it could be to camouflage a new runway ‘cause it sticks out like a sore thumb when its new concrete. Might have been that. But certainly, it proved to be a good thing to save tyre wear. You imagine with our training lots of circuits and bumps around the take-off, circle round and landing, you know scores, scores of landings went on that wouldn’t otherwise have gone on with a flight, a flight of Wellingtons. So then, from there I went to Blackpool again to upgrade to a fitter 2A, fitter 2A airframe, so that was more time at Blackpool and that covered Christmas as well so a bit of a repeat, but in the meantime, we decided we must learn dancing. So, at Blackpool, over one of the shops was Madam somebodies dancing academy, so there we were learning the quickstep and the waltz and the foxtrot whatever and I have wrote, written in my diary that I am getting quite good at the waltz, but I haven’t tried it with a girl yet. So, but you can imagine the tower, the marvellous ballroom there, same as the Winter Gardens, sort of a up market place that had all those facilities and a huge dance floor and stage for the band. The whole place was crowded. The bars were crowded sometimes two or three deep waiting, trying to get a drink and no wonder sometimes we drunk these bars dry. So that was where our money went and then in my diary, I realised that I would occasionally draw ten shillings out of my Post Office account to keep my appetite for the old John Barleycorn [laughs]
PL: So, what were you doing at Blackpool when you returned to Blackpool?
FC: When I returned, we went to Wharpton[?] on buses and there, there was another school of technical training. I think it was Wharpton[?] but since called Warton, and so we were doing benchwork and my diary reminds me that I was nearly top of the class for different things like this because I had always been making and mending things as a boy, even when I was a reporter I spent a lot of time in my workshop making this tommy gun, half size tommy gun and making myself an automatic pistol, but it wouldn’t have been automatic but to fire, point two-two ammunition, but prior to that with my little cap gun, made of a steel castings probably put together for a roll of caps. I modified this pistol by drilling a hole where the hammer struck, just the size of a point two-two blank cartridge and then the hammer I drilled it so that I provided it with a spike which, when you, when you discharged, when you pulled the trigger that set the round off but I made a mistake really. I should have had it in the vice when I first fired it but I was holding it like you would and when I fired it really when you think about it there was no where particular for the, for the, blast to go, all it could do was to throw the side, pivoted side part of it off and crack, crack it off to my finger, so I thought I won’t, I won’t use that again.
PL: So, what were you making at the technical school?
FC: We were doing, we were doing filing. We had to file within a few thousands of an inch or even less. You were drilling, you were making brackets shapes, folding metal, drilling the holes, riveting, getting the, the idea of the rivet clearance hole and so on and riveting up and you were judged on the final product. So that’s where I got top marks again. So, I graduated, if that’s the word, we never used that, came away with a, with the upgrade which I think it gave me six pence a day more which was well worth it. So then back to the, back to Peplow, carrying on with the and then I was in modifications section and the diary reminds me that we’d start picking dual control on a Wellington on one morning we’d work all day, all evening, right through the night until six o’clock or so in the morning when we’d finished the job. We made provisionally an extra seat in that position because normally the pilot sits on the left with easy access for the crew down to the bomb aimers section and up to the front turret, but once the seat was in it was a bit of a squeeze to get by so we fitted an extra control column linked with the first pilots’ and another job we did in the modifications thing was strengthen up the under-carriage attachment structure. Where the under carriage pivoted from to, to be trapped that had to be reinforced. The radius rod which braces the length once it’s locked down, that structure was cracking. There was a, actually there was a heavy landing or any landing that was the, the main attachment pivot point and the radius rod attachment rod were trying to spread themselves. So, we, the modification was to strap a diagonal strut to strap between the two fittings which had I think three quarter bolts on it and my diary records that we did this Wellington in, on one side in eight and a half hours. So typically, with modifications seems to take time to do the first one but once you get the swing of it. And then because, because once we did that the aircraft had to have a test flight which meant all the crew positions had to be occupied, not just the pilot and his engineer. So, I was in the tail turret for this first flight I’d ever done, proudly stroking the, the gun butts, for the, the machine guns in there. So, we took off happily and we circled, climbed, circled and did different manoeuvres and looking over the fields for the first time from above it’s a real eye opener. Then there was an aircraft coming from behind, a single engine aircraft, I can’t remember what on earth it was but it was overhauling us from the star, from our starboard side and I knew, I knew you, you must never point guns unless you really mean, from the Home Guard you never pointed guns but in this case I was the hero with a wicked German and I was following him in the gun sights, I mean there was no ammunition, following him in the gun sights until he came along side by which time the turret was at right angles and there was an enormous bang behind me. And a rush of wind, a terrific rush of wind and what it was I hadn’t latched the doors, two doors together properly, which I mean it must have happened with lots and lots of other people at the time, so I nursed the turret back in line and scrambled, round to try and shut the doors because when it flew open and I looked over my shoulder at the green fields farm, you know, I only had a three or four inch strap around my waist and the chute, parachutes is clipped inside the aircraft in a bracket, so you’re a bit on your own there if you want to jump out. Not a happy place for anyone to be when things are happening for real. So, this is one of those things that the story must, must have been told endlessly if the doors flying open [long pause]. So, the pattern —
PL: So, so the point, what was the, what was the purpose of the test flight?
FC: Well the test flight was to, to operate the controls. We did other —
PL: Dual controls?
FC: We did other things regarding the rigging as well.
PL: Right.
FC: The, now, the undercarriage knock down selection [pause] it pulled the flaps, I think, partly down it was all through the aircraft, with all its trim somehow with its undercarriage dangling down, so it was linked up with the flaps but the, the, the point was if the — yeah, if they were flying and with the, with the trim controls, that was the other edges wasn’t it? Anyway, if you were flying and you operated the tail trimmer and then [emphasis] selected the undercarriage down, if you operated the tail trim too much and the flap and the undercarriage came down it would pull on the cable to do what it thought it had to do and it meant the cable snapping so it finished up with a spring strut being put in the cable somewhere I believe. But the Wellington was very touchy when you jacked it up in the hangar you had to, you had to know what you were doing. The jacking point typically you would think is on the point of balance but then that’s not a happy thing to do. You need weight on the tail when you’re jacking so because of this reason it depends, if you’ve got your engines in, it’s different to when you have got no engines in, but you had to watch jacking that you didn’t let it, let it tip so. It was a case of securing the tail wheel down till you were safely jacked and then the retraction we did, adjustments we had to make, the hydraulics all new to us we were learning how everything worked. We — when you fly the Wellington and if you think of a, perhaps a better with a low light coming across the wings you realise then what, how an aeroplane works, you get reduced pressure on the top side and increased pressure underneath. You realise then that being a fabric covered wing and geometric construction which is like a lattice work you looking across the wing, it’s like looking across a quilt on your bed, it’s all in squares, little square humps and you think it’s, that’s holding the blessed aircraft up that fabric. So, it’s well laced on.
PL: Um, um.
FC: It’s well secured, and the Wimpey could take a lot of damage. We didn’t have any damaged aircraft coming back to our patch because but, the, this design proved itself. If you had a big hole blown in it, it destroyed these, this lattice work then it wasn’t terminal for the aircraft. The strains could be shared up with whatever was there.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: And then they went — the ones that had an engine fire and maybe burnt the fabric off, burnt the fuselage fabric off right into the tail plane they would still get back.
PL: Good gracious. There’s sometimes you’d have aircraft coming back, and it was really a skeleton.
FC: Yes, I know. Maybe just one, one tail plane and a bit of an elevator to control. But they were sort of an all laid back aircraft in the air. They were moving a bit, when you’d, a lot of aircraft when you look back towards the tail, it’s like a, a ship at sea. They describe a little square pattern, repeated pattern, on a ship. I mean later on a troop ship, sleeping on deck the mast and the stars they would be making little squares in the sky. But certainly, as I said the, the, the low sun across the wing made you realise that you been,the aircraft had been supported by it.
PL: Um, um. So, can you take a guess at how many Wellingtons you converted to dual control?
FC: No, I didn’t record it you see I didn’t have room for recording things like that. It was all about the, the drinking and the dancing and the meeting of different ones.
PL: [laughing]
FC: Now one night, I’d forgotten about this. On one diary entry I’d drawn a picture of a brooch with a nice letter ‘M’ with wings. That was for one of the good girls that I was with and then, Marjorie, and then when I’d finished it, I mean in the diary it gives me away what type of chap I am. I, it came up so good, the words are in the diary, but that it’s too good to give to Marjorie. I’ll wait till I find another girl with a letter ‘M’ [laughs]. But in fact, I gave it to my mother.
PL: Oh
FC: Her second name was May but I said this is ‘M’, ‘M’ for mother.
PL: Oh, how lovely.
FC: [laughs]
PL: So how long, how long were you a flight engineer?
FC: I wasn’t a flight engineer, ground engineer.
PL: Ground engineer, sorry.
FC: Well this was once I was a classed as airframe fitter, fitter to airframe then, then I said farewell to my pal I joined up with, Jeff Grinden, of all things had taken his tenor saxophone with him, like musicians do.
PL: Um.
FC: Because he had a marvellous life, like pancake. We had a mountain of spuds to peel, Jeff would be tootling away on his saxophone. He’d go to the bands that were playing music for the, for the Officers’ Mess or whatever and of course abroad he had it all the time he was abroad. When, when we parted company at Bombay he went with others to the Cocos Islands on a Liberator Squadron in fact. But on the, when we were, the draft that I was in to go to Blackpool again, the ready crew, the ship from the Clyde at Gourock I think. That was at Blackpool again. So that’s where I said farewell to Jeff. Who was at the next town up from Blackpool. I went there, I shouldn’t have left the area really, strictly but said my farewells. Then my train to Gourock, or Gradock or whatever, whichever it was. There I was lumbered up with all my webbing packed up with backpack, haversack, kit bag on my shoulder trying to find G deck and A deck, A deck’s the lifeboat deck, a long way down. Coming down this wide, quite wide stairways, there was a chap coming towards me and I moved to the side and he moved to the side and we stopped. And I looked up and it was Jeff, so he was on the same troop ship [laughs]. Oh yes, G deck was a long way down.
PL: So how, just trying to clarify how you moved from working on Wellingtons. So, did that work come to an end?
FC: Oh no, we just —
PL: So, so how did you get to be on a —
FC: Well in my case, I didn’t know it at the time, they needed well over two hundred upgraded fitters 2A.
PL: Right.
FC: Airframe people. They did over two hundred airframe people to put them on a 9613B, now why did I think of that. Well our kit bags had it on. And on the troop ship we had instructions from the CG-4A Waco glider, a small glider.
PL: Right.
FC: Because we going, this was for Burma, for the going into Burma. So, we had all the instruction on it and then we got to Worli, to Bombay, Worli is a huge transit camp for people leaving and coming in. And when the dhobi wallahs came around in the huts asking for our clothes to be washed we innocently, naively gave them all our sweaty old clothing and when we — later on, we saw about four acres of khaki spread out to dry in the sun. So, but they had a clever code, they’d invented their own sort of barcode amongst themselves. Just a pattern of dots inside the collar perhaps and then on the, from the outside troops, I mean it was a four-year tour when I went, a four-year tour. They were, they wanted to raise some sterling, so they were selling things off and one, I bought a topi, a pith helmet, flat, sort of thick with a flattish top with a RAF [unclear] with an RAF flash on it. I don’t know how many — how much that was. Another one was Irish linen, a stone coloured suit in the RAF pattern which is starched. Very smart. So I bought that off him. I can’t just think what else. But I was proud to wear that suit, I’ve got pictures of it. So, in India, that’s right, that’s right, about eight or so of us airframe fitters went up to, to, to 144 repair and salvage unit which was based at the time at Risalpur, North West Frontier Province as we used to know it. Right by Afghan border where the, where the Khyber Pass starts.
PL: Um.
FC: Nowshera is a town across the Kabul river. So that was our first of the Indian town we went in, and I remember the cinemas there with Indian films and then there was a big pre-war army, army station with, with lots of facilities there, marvellous billiards rooms. We had our barrack blocks had a wide veranda, a covered veranda and a big rack to put your rifles in to lock them up and pegs over each bed to put your harness or whatever these cavalry people needed to have with them and we had our own bearer there we paid about six annas a week, of course clubbed together with a dozen of us. We had the young lad guarding our possessions and keeping the, keeping it clean. And then we got used to the Indian char wallah coming around with — on his shoulder was a harness arrangement, he carried an urn with a, with a heated, heated urn to, to serve up hot tea and egg, egg sandwiches [laughs]. So that was a good place and then Christmas came again celebrated with the officers coming round serving up the grub I suppose and 35MU was also based there. The maintenance unit. While we were there on the Frontier we were, we were, our particular party, working on the Hurricane doing a major inspection and completely recovering the fuselage with fabric, that was our task. And that had flown all the way from Burma. What they did, the aircraft in Burma that came to, need repair or whatever stage of air worthiness it was, if they had the, the time left on the major inspection date and could do it, they could fly as far as they could. They wouldn’t want to put all the aircraft into the first repair unit, so that distributed all across India. It went on, there was a three and a half year campaign, so you imagine it was a lot of work for the set up for the, right across India and of course that then was a good start when they started their own airlines later on. They had a lot of, a lot of experience in aircraft. So that was a, a memory that, and that aircraft turned up in Burma later when I was told to, when I was told to do something on this Hurricane when I was in central, lower Burma [pause] yes it, as you approach it you see how it settles, just checking the whole thing you walk around the aircraft checking things and typically you’d give it a slap underneath the fabric areas to check whether there was any water in there. So when I came to this Hurricane which had on its [unclear] a long piece of cord on the trailing edge on top of the trailing edge [unclear] and I said to myself ‘I was right after all, somebody else has done it’ and when I turned round to just look at and realise what number it was, it was the one that where, on the North West Frontier when it flew after we did all of the rigging checks, after the major,it was I think left wing low so having rigged it all with a, a positive droop or something the answer was to put I think eight inches of cord on top of the trailing edge of the rear, of the rear part of it. Bolt that on, which put a slight down pressure on. Just a gentle thing, but left wing low again and that’s why I put this quite long piece of stuff on [laughs]. So, the chaps were glad that it’s doing the, still going strong.
PL: Um, um.
FC: But, but when I first went, three of us got posted to Burma.
PL: Right.
FC: For a few weeks.
PL: So why did that happen? Was there just need in Burma?
FC: Well with, with the Air Force, no with the Army if you were in the regiment and down to a platoon, it’s like keeping an aircrew together in the war. These platoons have got to, have got to train together, whereas and they would, they would keep keeping that platoon together. But the Air Force it was all numbers, it was like if they wanted two hundred airframe fitters by that time, they went through their books and we met up with those we’d been training with as recruits. So, the time comes when they needed three chaps in Burma like they would happen. With the units, I mean they, this was another repair and salvage unit so three of us got our rations and I don’t know how long the railway journey took on these hard old wooden seats, where you had your mess tin and you had your loose tea and you went up on the, when the train stopped, you went up to the locomotive, asked the driver for some boiling water for your tea, he would blast this, you want to get out of the way, blast this super-heated steam which is well above boiling point, you know, it’s a super-heated stuff, down a pipe and then run water through it. By the time it came out it was boiling so that was our provision. And then on different stations the Indian fruit sellers were there and cakes and things you could get. So that was at Delhi. We didn’t get to the Taj Mahal we only had a day or two stop there. By the time we reached Calcutta in a big, in a transit camp there where, that’s where we was ventured in to Calcutta find where Thurpos[?] restaurant is and have a lovely meals there. [pause] So, then the, the journey on to where, whereby new unit 131 repair and salvage unit was. We had to go by train and boat and, and truck, across the Brahmaputra that’s right because the — oh the, with the Burma medal, the Burma star it was, it was for people who served East of the Brahmaputra, that was the line, so by the time we — when we got to Dhoapalong, not far from Cox’s Bazar on the Arakan Coast of Burma, the Bay of Bengal Coast. It was an airfield, we were in a lovely area which had bashas, lots of bashas which are huts made of — thatched huts with bamboo, woven bamboo side panels and things like that with, with beds in there. So that was — and then the airfields were Cox’s Bazar and Chittagong and so on. And we were repair and salvage so our task was to be in that position to, to be covering aircraft perhaps, and if you think of that coast, there’s a long beach, seventy miles long on one stretch of that coast, so a great safe landing for the pilot, not all that good for the airplane though, when you had to get there quickly, before the tide came in [laughs] so that was a — and if it was a belly landing job you had to try and lift it to get the undercarriage down and that was a task really and a half. So, but then they were desperate for any aircraft parts to be sent back to, to the big repair depots, that’s where they got their spare parts from. Now when we moved when Akiabyron[?] was taken, just by the Danba[?] Coast, we had an advanced party go down to get our new camp prepared and — oh and then I was tasked to be an escort for spares, going from Chittagong to Akyab and I wore my lovely stone walking out suit that I’d paid a few pounds for when I first landed at Bombay. I wore that and when I had to find somewhere to sleep I think because I was so well dressed, they said the CO is away you can use his tent and his bed. Clean sheets, imagine, this is, we shouldn’t keep the sheets on in case we made them dirty [laughs] now, so typically in the morning, no, there’s no, there’s no aircraft seat for you to return, they’re all jammed up with the wounded but while you’re here if you roll your sleeve up, to see, the [unclear] I think shows your, I was going to say postcode, your blood group.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, there was me in this MASH type forward hospital, laid alongside this soldier, for the first time giving a donation. Well its quite moving in a way and I remember thinking you could, you’ve got your religion here, I said, I’m C of E I wonder if my blood’s alright for him [laughs] thinking that, it set you up to do blood donation. For fifty or more times while I was at Farnborough later on. So that was my, the time when I —
PL: So, they just asked you if you would do a blood donation?
FC: Yes, anybody, any visitor wanted, any visitor they would —
PL: Right. Any visitor came along, and they would ask.
FC: Well, they were desperate days, weren’t they?
PL: Yes.
FC: And the wounded that were carried away in the daks[?], there were so many that were too, too bad to move.
PL: Um, um.
FC: And yet these forward hospitals had a lot, a lot on their plate.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, the only aircraft to come back was a Tiger Moth, a little biplane, a trainer biplane a very old design. So here I was with my, a, a thunderbolt propeller spanners and kit for a Hamilton propeller with that in the rear seat and sitting on the pilot’s parachute because he only had some blankets to sit on. And we were flying a lovely flight really up, just on, just inland of the coast, a nice area to fly in and this big, this big telescopic spanner with a tommy bar, I thought if any Japs come I should point this other weapon [laughs] like a —
PL: So, they’d think it would look like —
FC: Like a forty millimetre gun.
PL: Excellent.
FC: [laughs] So that was the only time I ever wore that suit once I was in Burma because I just put it away and went with a jungle green. So that was when we moved to Akyab that was, we were quite, it was a camp we were in, a flat area, if you — you only had to dig a hole, I mean, not knee deep and it would fill with water. So, you were alright for washing water and [pause] and Thunderbolts, Squadrons. New Thunderbolt Squadrons had moved in so I think the first day I frightened them, four or six of them were, had come from the airfield up the perimeter track around to, to where the runway was and one had got rather to the side of the, of the good ground and it sunk its wheel right up until the wing tip was on the ground so and that was all armed up you see, so we had to, that was our first salvage job to get that back on its, back on its wheels on its feet again but then nothing was damaged so that’s another Christmas tree to us we could take bits off as spares. I remember one chap there with his — he’d got a, I think it was a hydraulic tank all blanked off with a — he was putting air into it to check for bubbles so the only liquid around at the time was an open top had been cut open off a forty five gallon drum, it was a couple of feet of petrol in it so you submerge the tank in it to check for bubbles and somehow, I don’t know, it was stupid really cause you can blow with your mouth, you can blow a pressure of two pounds a square inch, but goodness knows what pressure he put on the tank because it expanded up almost to a ball and so he’d wrecked the tank but it was great for us it was like, it was like a kettle, once we’d left a few blanks on and a spout that was for boiling up our hot water for Crow the engine pit, the engine mechanic who was the butt of everybody’s humour. He would be grinding, grinding up this K rationed chocolate into little crumbs to make cocoa with, so that was a good use for that little tank. But another time, oh, we moved to a better area on a bit higher ground. And then the, the toilets had to be dug. About three barrels deep, a long way down and set up that for a latrine and the, the, they made beds out of telephone wire, bamboo poles and telephone wire, like a, like a grid, no springs but we were off the ground. So, when we moved — but when we were in Dhoapalong before we moved there to Akyab I’d made myself a camp bed. I went into the jungley bit where there was an old, one of our ground tanks abandoned and I used that to do the metal work for the legs of the, of the camp bed. I found an old tarpaulin off a lorry that I took to the [unclear] he was a tailor in the nearest village where he sewed up the canvas for the camp bed which cost me eight annas I think. So that was all it cost me. So that was good to have my own camp bed. And then I had a bed roll, a bed roll where you made your bed to sleep in and then you left it like that and you rolled it all up so you could easily unroll it and hop into it. Like a modern way of doing it I suppose. So Akyab —
PL: So what sort, what sort of date are we talking at now when you were in Burma? What sort of date was it?
FC: It’s in the diary, it’s in, just into forty-five, just into 1945. I got, it’s all in my diary somewhere. In fact, when I put in a claim for this shoulder that had gone wrong after they took, I had lots of cancer operations, they took a big one away from here which attached itself to my shoulder and neck muscles. So, once they took about three hours operation, anyway once that was radiotherapy on it.
PL: Um.
FC: To kill off the cancer, I describe it as a friendly fire that came. It was a risk with anything but certainly to kill the cancer. The fact that my shoulder dropped. This shoulder, the right shoulder has always been two inches lower than the left. Because the neighbour, who sadly died, he was a tailor, registered tailor, one of the top tailors in that line. Do all the Mess kits with their elaborate frogging and gold braid and he was — and he got me to try on the Sultan of Brunei’s Mess kit and Prince Charles’s Mess kit, in fact Len had made the Queen’s scarlet jacket she wore on early parades in London. Horse Guards Parade. He said your right shoulder is two inches lower. Well I didn’t know it. Didn’t realise it.
PL: Um, um.
FC: But in the bathroom with a mirror which shows the tiles behind you, he was right. But now this shoulder has dropped, now this shoulder is lower than this and you’ve gone out a bit out of kilter. And I have constant pain with it.
PL: Oh dear.
FC: My neck, tilts movement and I only got a sixty degree arc to travel through. So, but I, I tolerate pain really quite happily. I got peripheral myopathy in the legs which, which makes my leg burn. I can’t lay down in the day they just burn.
PL: Oh dear.
FC: But I can stand all day.
PL: Um, um.
FC: In fact, when they, when I’m trying to get to sleep and they burn, I’ve only got to lift the leg up, off the weight of the leg even if it’s soft or hard. Lift it up. Oh, it’s marvellous, I wish I could levitate my legs when I sleep. It’s not much to ask, I suppose. But that’s one of the things I’m , so I’m very stoical about that. But anyway, going back to Akyab.
PL: So how long were you there for?
FC: Well it’s —
PL: How did it all draw to a close? I mean it sounds like you became very clever at making something out of —
FC: Out of scraps.
PL: Out of scraps.
FC: Well this was our motto really, there was no job we can’t do was my corporal’s motto. So, you, there was great improvisation really.
PL: Did you have a workshop there? Did you have all the other kit that you —
FC: Well we didn’t have a workshop as such. I don’t, don’t remember much in the way of workshop situation. There’s a marvellous book called “The Bamboo Workshop” and I knew the bloke, the author of it, because in the early get togethers at, at the Albert Hall in London, this is in the early days, 1947 they had already had got together earlier than that, so each year we went to — for a reunion. Oh, anybody in South East Asia was there, you know Burma or beyond. Getting together because we want, we had [emphasis] to be together. You had all that time like, all unified in that in Burma and with all the, I mean it was a million soldiers in, in the fourteenth army, we were part of the fourteenth army. In fact, in, yeah, in General Slim’s book “Defeat into Victory” which tells the story of the defeat and so on. Just in the last chapter there’s a paragraph that stood out to me talking about 221 Fighter Group that, oh no, 224 Group was bombers, we were Fighter Group and then there’s 221, no we were 221, it was 224 on the [unclear]. Anyway it, he talks about the such close working together with the Air Force that we, we considered 221 Group to be, to be part of the fourteenth army.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: So that’s a good feeling really.
PL: Um.
FC: I’ve got newspapers of, we had a daily newspaper in Burma that came up with the rations when they flew rations, dropped rations, or flew them in anywhere. They tried to make a daily paper available which put you in the background of the what the rest of the world was doing as well.
PL: Um. So how long were you there for Frank?
FC: I had, when I joined, well when I was at Akyab, that’s right, that was maybe a couple of months later. I’ve got the dates, but then about a dozen or more of us were transferred to a number three repair and salvage unit, mobile unit which was formed in the Middle East, worked through the Middle East, come through India and then to the Arakan, to, to actually, took you up to Chapalong[?], this nicely set up with the bashas and things. In the book that was written that he wrote, Ranson, Samson, Reg, and he was always asking people in the Albert Hall ‘tell us about your units’. A lot of history and I regretted I didn’t tell him about 131 or number, well number three in the book was in the early chapter. But there were about twenty or more repair and salvage units that worked all across India.
PL: Right.
FC: And all into Burma. We were the number one —
PL: So, was it a sort of lorry, was all the kit, was it in the back, or how did it work?
FC: We were mobile, we had vehicles, we had three tonner lorries. We had high, high load up RAF trailer.
PL: Um, um.
FC: We had mobile workshops with a lathe, its own, it generated its own power a, lathe, a [unclear] I guess, a, but “The Bamboo Workshop” is a book that’s well worth reading.
PL: So, was that about — so, so did you work on the mobile, on, on the mobile unit?
FC: Yes. That was number three, when I was two years then with that unit.
PL: Right. Right.
FC: With the mobile unit. And so, they, when we joined the unit from the other unit, flew in, flew in across the mountains, the Arakan to Magwe I think, to — before they came down. We landed at Segore[?] it’s a Japanese built airfield just on the Mandalay Road up from Meiktila, only a few miles up there and we landed taxied around and the CO met us. Of course, you’re in a litter of damaged, Japanese aircraft and bodies around but the first thing he did because he was keen, ‘Are any of you footballers?’ And of course a lot, a lot put their hands up like they would because later on he formed — how many of us were there. Must have been a dozen football teams.
PL: Good gracious.
FC: And we played on the dirt runway. Not a happy place to come to grief on.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: But he — and then later on Kendrick, Squadron Leader Kendrick, he organised a, a bullet cart race down the runway. He got the locals to [laughs] bring their bullet carts on and the, the CO, Kendrick, he’d had a grass skirt, he’d got a proper grass skirt, but it wasn’t grass it was nylon towrope, glider towrope about as big as your finger I suppose but so strong, but, so the electricians jeep he had a, this for towing because a chain is a typical thing they issue or a cable but that’s solid whereas using, towing a vehicle out of the dirt, or the mud typically.
PL: Um.
FC: The tow vehicle could go forward and gather its strength up, pull on it without a jerk which could stall the engine.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: So that’s what he kept in the back of his jeep, but that disappeared and reappeared as the grass skirt. [laughs] And then he, he thief proofed his jeep, this electrician, so nobody could steal it. And what he, all he did, clever in my terms but simple. He had a change over switch, so what he did he interrupted the cable running down to the horn, horn, cause that’s just thin cable and then the starter one, button on the floor, that’s a, a small cable to trip in the relay to put the power in from the battery.
PL: Right.
FC: It doesn’t take a vast load but he, he got these side by side to the two-way switch. He could start the engine, nobody could start the engine because he’d cleverly moved the two-way switch. So, starting the engine was pressing the horn button, which nobody would have thought about. A thief especially. And the, the button on the floor, he — I think it you easily found with your foot. He put a little top hat shaped bracket over it with a hole in the middle to guard it, as a guard really.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: But it meant that he could casually go down and press that button to, to plug the hole.
PL: Goodness, gracious me. So, what happened next Frank? So, you —
FC: Well this was, we, we got, the unit, number three had just got there the day before and put up their old tents and all the place, the only place we could sleep was on the, in the cookhouse tent. That big hundred and eighty pounder tent, tent. So, we soon got fixed up with a tent and settled in. What were we up to there? Oh yeah. Meiktila in lower central Burma on top of the plains. There were eight airfields the Japanese had built. Pre-war there was one at Toungoo a bit further on the Rangoon Road, off the Rangoon Road but the one we were on had a marvellous runway, cambered enough to keep the water off.
PL: Um.
FC: And stop any pools developing whereas the perimeter tracks being flat, there were pools that, puddles and pools on that but they, but they’d excavated massive monsoon ditches and big storage ditches. Plus, they’d got the locals doing it all.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, it was, it was operable and they had their control tower up on, on poles on the, the, the trees. Well, well designed that was. And also, where the standing trees were, they got earth embankments to make a huge shaped pen to put the aircraft in.
PL: Right.
FC: So that on one occasion I was working on a Spitfire in this, in this pen. There was standing trees they’d left which was good for shade, you see. I was working on this Spitfire, sometimes if you had to put another tail unit on, you had to crawl down, you would support the aircraft prop, crawl down to uncouple the cables, trim the cables and the rudder and elevator cables and then the transport bolts on the, that took the, the front half, forward half to the rear half, a row of transport bolts to take out. That was rather a hot job. But this particular time I wasn’t there doing that when I was working on something on a little bench, it was a metal one, when, and I’d noticed this Hurricane with its forty-millimetre cannon parked outside and suddenly these cannons were firing right through the trees bringing branches down.
PL: [gasps]
FC: And I ducked under this little tiny bench and it went on and on and on. It seemed to go on forever but in fact I think their magazine holds about fifteen rounds. But if you think of [clapping] going on for — it seemed forever. We went around to see who’d, who’d fired this and standing in the cockpit a bit shame faced was the instrument man. He had put a new film in the cine camera which you matched up to the firing, put a new film in it, put the camera in, he [laughs] the Spitfire control column has a spade, spade shape, well that’s it. Suitable for your right thumb and the gun button has a guard around it.
PL: Right.
FC: So, if you’re working in the cockpit and pull it towards you and if you surround it you won’t set it off. But you’ve got the guard, you move it to a test position and then press it, that’s what he should’ve done, test. What he did was put it on full fire listening for this little whir of the camera and he’d got, fired this lot off and I think he, he was paralysed, he must of thought who’s doing that when it suddenly happened.
PL: Oh dear.
FC: But he kept his thumb on the button obviously.
PL: [gasps]
FC: And luckily, goodness knows where the shells were finishing up, a mile or two or more away. Because it fires about a two pound in effect a bullet.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: And they can be explosive ones as well.
PL: Um, um, um. That’s amazing.
FC: So that was — and we came around and everybody in the unit came round and the cooks as well and the CO come up in his jeep. So that he had to explain by Mr Neal who we called guns, called him guns after that.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: But particularly with the Spitfire, I mean the Hurricanes are totally big high aircraft on the ground a Spitfire is lower down so with the muzzles of the cannons.
PL: So luckily.
FC: You can be like a labourer leans on his spade, you drape your arm over that and it’s happened to people — those have been fired.
PL: [gasps]
FC: Been fired accidentally.
PL: Oh, my goodness.
FC: Maybe twenty millimetres [unclear] there. So, you see tail wheeled aircraft like the Hurricane and aircraft of that day, if they accidentally fire, they’re, they’re set up to about ten or fifteen degrees.
PL: Um.
FC: With a modern aircraft, tricycle undercarriage nose wheel, they’re parallel to the ground and if they fire any of those things of course, it’s just the height.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: To be aware of. So, you wouldn’t walk in front of an aircraft. [laughs]
PL: So, were there many accidents?
FC: I don’t remember many luckily, no, but it’s a warning when there were, to those around and you work safely.
PL: Um, um.
FC: Yeah, I’ve got all my fingers and thumbs. We had to — the one Spitfire that had a damaged wing we got the wing off another of our Christmas tree wrecks and fitted it. Now the pneumatics were connected up, the pneumatic pipes on the route end of the wing. And, now Rolls Royce can put the whole shape into the pipe on a, on a piece of paper but in those days the pipe was just lazily bent to a sort of “S” shape which is kind to the pipe you see but when you’ve got a whole group of them coming up like this from one wing and you take it off and you’ve got to put on another you see, easy to — so when the — right, when I went to test it, right, clutch down, hiss of the flaps. One flap went down and it copped, cropped the cannons in the wing so I thought to myself, that’s a problem with no labelling you see.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, this is a lesson that —
PL: Um, um.
FC: You label everything. But if you got the one wing off another aircraft without thoughts [pause] anyway that’s a lesson.
PL: Um.
FC: And then the — yes, we were detached. They had, typically the unit had the main, main base somewhere and with up to six or eight mobile repair sections, MRS’s and for instance, the one that I was on, number four, we had a crane, a Coles crane, a typical RAF one of the day. We had three tonners, jeeps and [pause] and what else did we have? I don’t know. I forget now. But at one stage — when we moved to Toungoo, that’s it, that was a pre-war airfield, a grass one but it had a big hangar and that hangar the Japs used as a warehouse for rice ‘cause it was — rice was in a huge heap like they pile up road salt nowadays, don’t they. In this hangar, great pile of it, goodness knows how many tons were there, but when we were — I was at Toungoo when the war finished and it was ceasefire and before the ceasefire, I think for eleven in the morning, the noise that morning they were, all these squadrons giving the Japs a good hammering and the, beside the airfield these big guns were firing up into the hills where the Japanese were, but suddenly you were, I don’t know, over awed by the silence because you’d never had, even the little chirpy insects seemed to be stopped. And then you realise the war is over, except the Japs were — they were waiting out Japs for a year after, they kept the West Africans back to, to flush out these Japanese. So, the — luckily the unit had, number three, had followed the, they were at Imphal, on the Imphal Plain with, which has got about eight airfields. The one there was Tollihull[?]. American built, because the American equipment made the road into China across those mountains.
PL: Um.
FC: So, when they were given the length of the runway as, whatever it was, five thousand feet or something, no, five thousand feet, that can’t be right, they must mean yards. Whatever it was it, it was the hugest longest runway but marvellous really because if you had an aircraft come to grief on it there’s plenty more of it.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: Whereas on a shortish run you’d have to clear the wreck off to make room.
PL: Um, um.
FC: For the newcomers.
PL: So, after the end of the war, what was your experience between the war ending and coming back? I mean were you involved with the decommission of aircraft or — ?
FC: Well in Burma we were — my unit was, was chosen to be part of the British Commonwealth occupation force to occupy demilitarising the Japanese.
PL: Right.
FC: So, our unit was chosen, being the top one with experience, but we, we, we will go there, we backed up the three Spitfire squadrons. There was a number four Indian squadron and number four and, no number eleven and seventeen squadrons, well, they operate the top aircraft. Now they have had an almost uninterrupted history from world war one. I mean they stand them down sometimes when they have got to get a new aircraft and when they stand up again the unit with the new aircraft. That’s the way they work. But that was a marvellous unit.
PL: So, you stayed on for a while?
FC: Well we were — yes, you could, you could opt out of going to Japan so in fact we were volunteers and there were two thousand RAF volunteers to go there with us, my unit as support and the Spitfires were rounded up from where ever the war left them and put on an aircraft carrier because we were going off in December forty-five but the, they loaded up this carrier with it, all these aircraft and they were on that carrier for six months. We couldn’t get the shipping we couldn’t get the three ships. We needed three ships with all the squadrons and equipment and stuff of ours.
PL: Um.
FC: Well the small ships of the day, so when we did — while we were there in Burma a hugest hole in the world that I have ever seen was made by the Indian engineers to dump all the aircraft in. A huge trench, if you like, ramping down each, up and down each side. So, we [clears throat] had a like fun which you would think of as fun putting all the Japanese wrecks in there.
PL: Um.
FC: And then our Spitfire useless parts.
PL: Um.
FC: So that occupied our time and they were tidying up Burma in fact when we, and Meiktila is quite near Upping Lake for swimming and typically we had the Spitfire overload tank as an actual raft and then drop tanks and we had the blow up you know plate of all assault dinghies to swim from and that pal of mine who was, er, he was, he was a Geordie but he spent all his time in another part of the country until he came into the air force and he had a camera, as I had, so we took a few pictures between us but when it came to develop and print and the fixer, the, sadly some of the photos have faded away.
PL: Ummm.
FC: Actually, faded away. But I am digressing there. But, that’s right we went to, to Toungoo in the — we were there when, when the war finished. So that was a tidying up time.
PL: Um, um.
FC: Then the, the, the jeeps were modified with rail wheels ‘cause the, it’s the same railway, it’s an old, the old pictures, the old carts of the old days the ruts they make you’ve got to stay in the rut and this is what the blessed trains are. Brunel had the right idea, what’s it, eight foot broad not four foot —
PL: The Western, the Western Railway.
FC: Yes, not the four foot eight and a half inch silly things but then that’s, that’s what’s happened all round the world they kept to that silly measurement.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, we tidied up Burma into this big hole and then we went swimming and then the order came the Burmese want all the scrap metal they can get hold of. Especially aluminium.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, we had to winch and drag and hoick these things out of the trench.
PL: Out of the hole.
FC: Onto tank transporters [laughs] lash them down to take them, go onwards to the scrap yard.
PL: So, having filled the hole you then had to empty the hole [laughs]
FC: That’s why stories go back people have seen the aircraft in the hole they know it’s real.
PL: Um.
FC: As people left, they’d tell the tale
PL: Um, um.
FC: And this business of crates being buried, well [pause], crates weren’t sent to Burma they were sent to India, Bombay maybe and shipped across. The aircraft had to be erected, test flown and, and it, you didn’t have facilities to do that in Burma.
PL: When you said crates?
FC: Crates, big boxes.
PL: What does that mean?
FC: Well big boxes.
PL: Big boxes of parts and things?
FC: The whole thing is in a box.
PL: Right.
FC: For instance, in Japan we had I think six or was it four, Harvards that came all boxed up.
PL: Right.
FC: So —
PL: Like giant Meccano?
FC: Well, no, no, no they were complete aircraft.
PL: Complete aircraft?
FC: No, no well as complete as they could be. Their wings were off.
PL: Right, ok.
FC: And the engines and the tail.
PL: Right, but everything else came in the box?
FC: To get it in the crate, yes.
PL: Good gracious.
FC: Now this, when we were erecting and testing these, test flying these Harvards, they’d been in that packing box for about three years and then Jim, my good friend, the engine fitter he built up the — got the engine on and built, coupled it all up and did everything like that. He wanted to do the engine run, he was desperate to do an engine run you see.
PL: Um.
FC: Now the Aussies had Mustangs, new Mustangs. We had old Spitfires. The Kiwis had their Corsair a big American goal wing thing.
PL: Um.
FC: We had the Spitfires so there was a bit of leg pulling between us and but once we got this Harvard outside, Sergeant Robinson our Sergeant said to Jim I shall run this, you know, pulling rank on him [laughs]. Although Jim had done all the work. Anyway, as we started up, I think Jim was standing, standing just by the cockpit I think, just started up the engine, just started up and there was a, there was a bit of a bang from the cockpit and this instrument glass had blown out and hit him.
PL: [gasps]
FC: And what it was, two pipes had crossed you see. The suction pipe and the pressure pipe, this little pipe across there — the pump should have been, the instrument was driven by suction.
PL: So, was he all right?
FC: And then Sergeant Robinson didn’t want to do any more engine running he let Jim do it [laughs] so Jim’s doing all the others making lots — the Harvards makes a wicked noise the propellers make an awful noise.
PL: Um.
FC: As you know. But —
PL: So how did it all end for you Frank? How did you sort of — what was the beginning of the end and heading home?
FC: Well that was once we were in Japan you see, we —
PL: What was it like being in Japan?
FC: Well it was, thinking back it must have been what Japan was like about twenty years before
PL: Um
FC: ‘Cause the Japanese were, until 1945 when the Japanese surrendered in China, ten years that war was. I mean at one time they had all the South East area right up to the North side but when you think about forty million Chinese was killed, what sort of a cope, what do they all the greater cope prosperity sphere or something, fancy name, they made old friends wherever they went.
PL: Um.
FC: With all the murder, I don’t know, same as Germany when all these countries making no friends at all. What sort of empire were they aiming at? You see it’s the few people at the top having it all done for them. They make decisions but in Japan we had earthquakes we were on, I was on guard on the bomb dump which was an area where there were underground aircraft factories. They were stacked up with materials as well.
PL: Goodness me.
FC: But we had a bomb dump there and we were there on guard one night when in the deepest winter. Bad winter of 1947, which happened here, Europe, but also in Japan, roads completely thick with ice. We were sitting, two of us huddled in this little sentry box when we felt it move, ‘somebody out there, you go that way and I’ll go that way’ so we grabbed our rifles but there was nobody there, ‘now what was that all about?’, but it was the earthquake, just tremors just starting. Now just across the road from us there was a big lagoon but it was thick with ice, you see, because we were trying to break it by finding, throwing big rocks on it but when the earthquake started it made this ice crack up. So, we had our little bit of fun there with an earthquake and then once, once the three tonner came changing the guard taking us back. In the guard room a big demijohn full of rum, but you were only supposed, not to have any before you went on guard, just after you came out so I, my pint mug, I had a couple of fingers of it in there I suppose and of course when you’re on guard room you only take your boots off and get in bed, which doesn’t warm the bed up properly because you were [unclear] anyway I had this rum, finished it off and was then, I was in a dream that I was on a sailing ship because of all the creaking and movement, I was in a sailing ship in my dream and I opened one eye and the, the light was swinging and moving like this, I realised what it was so I — there was a Sikh chap with his turban on just sitting up in bed he said ‘I think it’s an earthquake’ and I don’t think he took his boots, and he slide the window open, they were sliding windows not fitting very well.
PL: Um, um.
FC: And jumped down onto the ice and the snow, well, frozen snow, and a lot of thundering of boots [noise of footsteps] coming down the stairs of the upstairs and it was dangerous too because it was, the lights fused, the lights went out and then there was some scaffolding along inside the building so it restricted the — but they all went out and I thought, I’ve had four, four hours guard out there so I’ll stay here.
PL: [laughs]
FC: But was dangerous really.
PL: Oh goodness.
FC: But the buildings are made, I realised when there was not a lot of damage by the American bombing naturally and not uninhabitable in fact we were in tents when we went to Japan. Now when we had left Burma the big transit camp down in Rangoon was so cold that they found a new area to put the tents up in. The Japanese prisoners put those up, like they would.
PL: Um.
FC: So I had my camp bed, everything else was on a vehicle for loading, so happily in the camp bed when was awoken by the tent having collapsed inward, almost collapsed down inward, because, well it was new tent that, which we’d never seen before, ours were awful old tents, this was a new one but you can imagine new rope and the tent pegs weren’t hammered in very much, very deep because the ground was so hard. But nobody had put tents there before it was in the area that flooded.
PL: Oh.
FC: So, we had a good two inches of water around our feet, so that was — I, when I wrote it up later, I thought, yeah, suppose the boot was on the other foot, think if the British were prisoners, the Japanese were going to their homeland and we put their tents up which had fallen down, it wouldn’t have been any laughing matter. We could laugh with the Japanese in the morning.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: When it came, but not if it had been a different tale wouldn’t it?
PL: Um.
FC: So, our welcome in Japan was to be in tents again. Cherry blossom time I think later on. They were coolie, it was a flying boat station as well as an airfield with a big crane so when the aircraft carriers eventually came with their cargo of Spitfires there was this massive dock side crane. And then they were, we were divided up into working parties. There was some on the aircraft carriers and then some on the lighters, the big barges that they brought in, I don’t know three or four at a time and a big hook of this crane dwarfed, you know, dwarfing everybody and they’re dangling, when I wrote it up being a bit poetic.
PL: Um.
FC: And, about their first landing in Japan from the crane. And we had no tractors, we had no tow bars, don’t know if we had steering arms. They had to be pushed to the airfield about two, two miles away.
PL: Gracious.
FC: One at a time. Now, Bas, my corporal, when there was — jumped down into the lighter that had come in the barge to a hooker, he said ‘we, we got more help here’ and I can’t remember them introducing me to him properly, might have been Peter, but anyway he was stripped off. He was a moon man, you know, one with, with, a pasty chap who’d not been out in the sunshine much, but very willing and we worked together. I was telling him all about the unit, telling him about all the wheezes we could get for a, if you flogged your cigarettes down in the town you had a, each cigarette would more or less buy you a bottle of beer in the canteen you know, things like this.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: Like you would [emphasis] tell a newcomer.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: So, when the, when the last Spitfire got moved off and went back into this little workshop by the hangar where, where tops, and when I reached up from my NAC jacket, when he brought it, he was the new group captain. [laughs]. Telling him all the fiddles we could get up to.
PL: [gasps]
FC: But I mean, he, he and he said something like, it was a marvellous introduction to my new station. When I didn’t realise what he meant new station until that’s what he was.
PL: Oh no.
FC: [laughs] But then —
PL: So, did you get into trouble?
FC: Oh no. No, no. I mean he’d have been flannelled. If, if an officer or any — he’d have had a lot of flannel wouldn’t he. Well, this was honest, he knew we wanted to get the aircraft, wanted to have the aircraft, our aircaft flying again.
PL: Um, um.
FC: Not what I did at the time. He had the right spirit of us.
PL: Um. So, when you had to take these Spitfires for two miles, was it a question of ropes round everything and people pulling, pushing?
FC: People pulling, people pushing.
PL: Literally, so it was manpower? Were the locals sort of drafted in to help?
FC: They had, they had Japanese labourers. I think there was a requirement for the Japanese to work for the occupation force for so many days a month at least. Because when you think about it, we were getting them the idea that it’s a democratic situation.
PL: Um.
FC: Not rule, what they did as well, all the lords, think of our lords of the manor in our country with all the hard workers, like serfs doing their stuff. All the ground divided up between all these [unclear] a similar thing in Japan. They deposed all these characters, I think they went off to Tokyo for a ticket. But I didn’t know at the time but Air Vice Marshall Bouchier who’s a, our overall commanding officer, officer commanding. He took over this manor house to live in, just a few miles up the river where the Kintai bridge is, it’s a five arch wooden bridge with granite piers its often in photographs and pictures. The Kintai bridge. Now before we went there, we were, we had a pocket book telling you the custom of the country and so on and all sorts of helpful things and we were not supposed to fraternise. No fraternisation, so like you would going down by the river and meeting these Japanese girls we were like sitting on a little beach where the, alongside the river. It was, must have been a nice feeling just be sitting with a girl when you’ve got your book trying to say things and then laughing, you imagine they’re laughing and then they’re trying to read English.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: To know what — but it was only bit of harmless fun really but a good job we didn’t get him outdoors up the river seeing us. So, then the jeep, you see, it’s — we all got around with jeeps at the time. Well think of this five arch bridge taking a jeep over it, well it weighed a couple of tons or something and it’s a wooden bridge meant for foot traffic
PL: Um.
FC: I mean its arched like that and you’ve got very shallow steps and then it curves and so, so it’s a bumpy thing for a vehicle so it was pointed out that the Japanese had been complaining that we should take more care of their old things. Beside it only led you to a park. The Japanese are a great one for parks. That’s to their credit. But Japanese we could, we could walk around at night without any fears around Hiroshima. We didn’t have any fears. We were, felt safer there than we did in parts of India.
PL: So, you, you were at Hiroshima?
FC: Well we were based on the Inland Sea where Hiroshima is based about sixty miles west but that was our nearest place to do some shopping in. And of course, we climbed up the —
PL: What was that like?
FC: Well it was — I was just going to say we climbed I think about an eight-storey building but all that was left was the concrete shell of it, you know, everything else was gone but when you got up there about, perhaps eight floors up and you looked across the city the roads had been cleared. Which showed the grid the patterns of the roads, but it wasn’t long before people went back and claimed their patch and put a little shed thing on it and the shops grew then. There was a dance hall and in fact I got tickets, dance tickets for the hostesses, I’ve still got them, so —
PL: Um.
FC: Whether I was hoping to go back and spend them I don’t know.
PL: [laughs] Goodness me. So, what, what, when would that have been? What year would that have been?
FC: That was 1946.
PL: Right.
FC: Yeah. We were due to go December forty-five, that was delayed right till April I think, forty-six when we landed.
PL: Um, um.
FC: But we needed three ships. Now before, while we were tidying up Burma because what was a good trade for the locals, if you wanted chicken or eggs.
PL: Um.
FC: Was some of your canteen things.
PL: Right, right.
FC: So the word went up that the Japanese were desperate for soap of all sorts.
PL: Right, okay.
FC: And you thought well yes, that’s it. That will be a good trade, so our test pilots one took the Harvard across over the mountains to Chittagong bought up all the soaps he could all sorts of soap and then the other test pilot took it to Cox’s Bazar and along that coast, and other places, getting all the soap he could. Thinking that would be good a trade for the impress money from the unit when we get there to build that up so this was loaded on our trucks. Boxed up and loaded on the trucks and though we had about fifty vehicles I think, they had a job to find drivers for them all. Anyway, everything was aboard and that and I travelled down as a passenger in a very comfortable situation laid on top of the bed rolls in the three tonner and I had, we each had a crate of American beer. Little bottles, little lager type things. And of course, in Burma they were always desperate for bottles because they make their, you know their wines and spirits, using, they need bottles. You had a, if you had a bottle to dispose of and you saw some Burmese there by the roadside you could drop the bottle out into the dust ‘cause there was either six inches of dust or six inches of mud.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So that was the way we travelled. When we, we didn’t go half way to Rangoon and stop and spend the night there because the water, the doctor with us said no that water’s all right that water’s all green. When it’s all green like that its healthy water its only growing good water so, but mostly we drunk it as tea. I think we seemed to get by during the day without a lot of water. We never had water bottles, well we had a little enamel one to hook on your webbing belt, but —
PL: So, what happened with the soap in Japan? Did you manage to sell all the soap?
FC: The mistake was after we loaded the vehicles into this particular ship there was no escort for this, for the truck with the spares and all the equipment no escort on the ship and the dacoits who were the bandits and thieves of Burma lifted all the soap. Now when we got to Japan, we found the boxes had been opened and we, we, we deliberately made a shortage of soap around that area and then the robbers had the soap to sell. So, they must have done, done a lot of, done themselves a lot of good.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: Because I said later whether CID or whatever they were, were trying to investigate the thieves showed a clean pair of heels [laughs] with all that soap.
PL: [laughs] I see.
FC: So, we had — this, oh this earthquake that I was saying about when I was on guard. I went back and that upset the runway. The aircraft in the hangars were damaged.
PL: Right.
FC: They were crashing together, moving together.
PL: Right. Oh no.
FC: So briefly I stayed in bed. But when they were repairing these buildings, I thought those joints, those joints are too loose because they were making the uprights a tenon going into it. A great big slot for it, just with a big peg.
PL: Um. That’s what it was for.
FC: Meant for it.
PL: Right, right.
FC: When you pointed it out to the Japanese. And then one morning [clears throat] oh, we found the Japanese labourers with two big shell cases about six inches, a couple of feet long, I think they were off the cruisers, sunken cruisers in our harbour possibly, they were polishing them. So that evening when we went to, to do our drinking decided what mischief we could do, we thought we’ll get those big, big shell cases, we’ll take those and they were a bit of a heavy weight to carry when you’re a bit tiddly but by the time we were approaching barrack block, ‘H’ shaped barrack block, we were upstairs on the first floor. We didn’t know what to do with them, so the New Zealanders were billeted right below us and we crept, we slowly came in, put one each side of their doorway and crept upstairs to bed, like you would and like you would, I think possibly a weekend, well Saturday, I suppose it was Saturday or Sunday, came down, came out to go to breakfast [clears throat] looked over the balcony and down below it was a static water pool that was meant for, you to supply water for a fire, the Japanese were making a little arrangement of the garden in it. But below they were gathered around these Kiwis, gathered around these, these chaps who were, who had got their Brasso and cleaning them up so in my little write up as we went to breakfast, I said to Jim ‘by now all our fingerprints have gone they have only got Kiwi prints’.
PL: [laughs] Oh dear.
FC: So, they got in trouble, like they would. But that was when we got one over on them you see.
PL: [laughs]
FC: So how do you explain it that we found them there?
PL: Um, um.
FC: We found them there sir.
PL: So, were they engineers as well?
FC: Oh yes.
PL: So, you were all engineers together?
FC: Yeah. Well different trades of course.
PL: Yes, yes, yes.
FC: But they had their own Corsair aircraft.
PL: Right, right. So what sort of things—
FC: Patrolling around the, we, we had a Southwest, South side of the island, main island, the main occupation force was the Americans of course. We were under General MacArthur then.
PL: So, were the Spitfires really just for sort of, you know, keeping an eye on things, reconnaissance and things?
FC: Well they were patrolling around.
PL: Right.
FC: They were watching out that nobody was travelling from Korea, to and fro to Korea, I think.
PL: Right.
FC: But it was to show a presence there.
PL: Um, um.
FC: And then four [pause] 4 Squadron put up, well about four aircraft once and then 11 Squadron put up, 11 Squadron, eleven aircraft. Then what about you 17 Squadron blokes, how many have you got serviceable? I got a panoramic view from the control tower at Miho, this is on the North Coast where you count, I don’t know, how many Spitfires, thirty or something. One is taking off, I took it when one was taking off another one had just fired its Coffman starter cartridge to start the engine at, with a great puff of white smoke so that’s obviously in action, two things in action, and then by the time I’d moved around here to overlap the pictures, there was a view of other Spits and a, one was in the, in the flying position, the armourers were aligning the, synchronising the guns, but the Japanese armourer helping them like you would have to do.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, but then Japanese were pushing, like you were saying pushing, pushing behind the trailing edge. Once there’s enough of you, it was a strong enough area to push. But when, a trick was with the Spitfire, the flaps were taken down by the pneumatic rams and then flaps up, all it did was to let the air out because there was a spring recovery, so when people are pushing like this and you are in the cockpit on the brakes, ready to put the brakes on, pneumatic brakes so it traps up and can trap a few thumbs.
PL: [gasps] Ouch.
FC: Well it was, despite this. On the carriers. The Spitfires on the carriers to get lift for taking off on that short thing, they would have the flaps partly down. Well, in no way you could do that, they were either up or down but what they did, they had blocks of wood, put blocks of wood, let the flaps came up by a spring onto a block of wood. They’d be in the best position to get lift for take off and once they were happily airborne, just flick the flap switch down and up again and they could put the wood before that. So, I’ve got this panoramic view, I thought I must —
PL: And that was taking off from aircraft carriers?
FC: No, no that was taken in a time when they did like in Malta.
PL: Right,
FC: They had to do this didn’t they?
PL: Um.
FC: You know, we had a, one time when the squadron was all worked up, back to working pitch at that time. The operation firepower or something like that. They were bombing up and loading up and doing their firing, live firing. So that was good for the pilots to get that, to get together like that. Do your turn round inspections and arm and rearm.
PL: Absolutely.
FC: So, it was this, these underground aircraft factories, they yielded off some metal and things and we made great — and I made a nice cabinet, wardrobe thing and the bottom shelf had a beer, crown beer bottle opener on with a cigarette tin underneath at the bottom, because it just took a crate a beer. I could lazily reach out, knock the top off you see.
PL: Um, um.
FC: And then they decided because we had to have somewhere to put our kit to make a long wardrobe, the full length of the barrack room out of aluminium and things and so of course you had to be about thoughtful and you had to be careful shutting the doors when people were asleep because of the noise.
PL: [laughs] So when did you get sent home?
FC: This was, demobilisation, you were given a number, a group number, so when group forty was ready, was ready to — that batch of people would be demobilised. When it got to fifty which was mine, we were on a long way up in Japan and [unclear] troop ships every Thursday or something and anyway [clears throat] and then ‘cause was when, oh Jim, that’s right. There was a Sir Geoffrey Depretes[?], an MP of the day came out to talk like a politician would have to do. At this big assembly of us [unclear] Kiwis and the Aussies and us and the Indians so afterwards any questions, so Jim next to me, when I’m, I’m, I’ve not got away in my group, my group, in my group I’m in so the top man boy Boucher, he said see me afterwards and I, I can guarantee you’re on, you’re on the next troop ship so we had a little farewell drink with Jim and we waited on and on and on and the troop ship never came until finally Jim went away on the same ship as we did.
PL: Oh my goodness. So, when was that?
FC: That was 1947.
PL: Gosh that’s a long-time getting home.
FC: So, from 1942 they hung onto me. Well if you think of it in April forty-seven the war over in Germany was over a couple of years nearly.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, we did a long stint. We didn’t do a four-year tour because prior to that they brought the four year down to three and a half and then three and then two and a half which was what I did.
PL: Um, um.
FC: So, tour expiry came as same as that. On the North West frontier when it was on the cooler times a lot of the old ones still had a dog collar RAF uniform, they didn’t want to part with it. They didn’t want a blessed collar and tie they wanted to show that they were old stages.
PL: Um.
FC: So, my tunic is upstairs. I’m letting out the seams. So, I’m looking forward to wearing it when the centenary of the RAF is in April coming.
PL: Fantastic.
FC: So, I came out you see of Japan back to Blackpool again because we were based, we were in Nissen huts at Kirkham in the tail end of that 1947 winter. When the first thing they did when we got to Kirkham there was a stove in the middle of the Nissen hut you kept burning hopefully. They took our greatcoats away.
PL: Oh.
FC: First thing they did.
PL: Why?
FC: So, we wouldn’t flog them.
PL: Oh, for goodness sake.
FC: But we wouldn’t have flogged them. We wouldn’t have, would we?
PL: You’d have worn them.
FC: Would happily take them back in the summer.
PL: [laughs]
FC: [laughs] That would be a different tale.
PL: Goodness me.
FC: So that was Blackpool again.
PL: Um.
FC: So, we had a, had a fair bit of time at Blackpool in between other things. Yes, sorry, then I had three months leave to take paid leave. Well, you didn’t have to take it. I had three months paid leave. So, I had no leave when I was aboard. I had the old rest camp in Japan at Kobe, above Kobe at the, on the hill was a nice maiko it means Japanese dancer, I think. Where we had Japanese food and when the rice came, I wanted some jam on the rice because I had never had rice at home unless it had -
PL: Oh, jam on, oh, wonderful.
FC: We were squatting on low, I’ve got pictures on the low tables of girls, all nicely made up and dressed. So that was Japan.
PL: So, what, so when you got home what was your career after the war? Just very briefly because you’ve been so generous with your time.
FC: Well I didn’t want to — I had so much time using, working repairing things and making and mending things. I didn’t want to go back to reporting because really quite honestly I mean for a fourteen-year-old boy to come as to be reporting, it would be better for a grammar school boy to start because he’s got, his mind is trained and he’s got a lot of advantages. So, I — there was a job, I took all my three months and hadn’t done anything about — I knew I didn’t want to go back but the RAF newspaper, I was in the RAF Association magazine, advertising for trade engine and airplane, air people for Boscombe Down and Farnborough. So, I came to Boscombe Down when they wanted — and they had just taken on, if you can imagine, like a queue in a way, they had just taken the last one on when I arrived, so I went on to Farnborough to the Royal Aircraft Establishment as it was, who needed sixty, or it needed quite a lot of staff. So that was where I —
PL: So that’s how you ended up here?
FC: Yes, that’s it, that’s what brought me to Farnborough and the experimental flying squadron with all the different aircraft from Lincolns and Yorks, the, the Hudsons. We had the, had the sea fliers the Spitfires. The naval flight was there so it was exciting times when they were launching and arresting. Quite exciting times. Because at the end of the hangar was a big assembly that was the sort fitted on a ship to, to catapult them off and the Spitfire with four big rockets attached like under its armpits. The engine fitter had to go up there and run the engine, all engines had to be run every morning, typical wartime thing, so Farnborough must’ve been a noisy place.
PL: Um.
FC: With the Halifax’s and everything.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: But anyway, the engine man hated having to go up there. It was perched in the middle of the sky it —
PL: Yes, yes.
FC: And then another time a bit later when the Korean war was on, I think, we had a Sea Fury on the, on our radio flight operating that one. That had to be put in the twenty-four-foot wind tunnel. They must have had trouble in Korea with the certain stores they were carrying or something, I don’t know what it was. Then my good friend who joined up the same day as me in Oxford, now, he was the engine man and he didn’t like being in the wind tunnel where they got a full bore and in with, sitting in with the engine going full bore.
PL: Um, um, um, um.
FC: But that was the typical thing they did.
PL: Um. So that must have been a very interesting life. How long, how long did you?
FC: Well I was there forty years.
PL: Wow. Gosh.
FC: Till 1988. And then of course it’s, it’s about a hundred years ago since I retired now because it’s, it will be thirty years next year won’t it? Three and four.
PL: It feels a little like we need to come back and speak to you again Frank about your, your experience testing, in Farnborough.
FC: Oh yeah.
PL: And your career doing that.
FC: Oh yeah. We did fly, did fly the Lincoln up to Valley, RAF Valley and they were, the Window, you know they drop Window these aircraft. Because various sorts, sizes of it. The worst one comes in packs which you daren’t disturb in a, in a dispenser thing on the wing tips of a, of a Canberra and if you drop one the pack all busted open because they were only about ten millimetres long, a little tiny bit of aluminium, ‘V’ shaped that way and then ‘V’ shaped that way.
PL: Was this for the —
FC: They spun.
PL: Right and this was to confuse the —
FC: This was to put something that looked like an aircraft.
PL: Oh right, right.
FC: And in fact, on ‘D’ Day, teams of RAF aircraft were flying in a pattern like this.
PL: Um.
FC: And dropping Window.
PL: Um, dropping them
FC: So that to their screens it looked like there was an armada of things coming. Well they knew how to confuse. But the one that went to, I was dumping this stuff out of the, the chute and there were ack-ack firing behind, firing at us behind. I thought, I hope they keep firing at that — and when we’d circled and landed at Valley the last bundles that must have been hooked up or something littered the airfield because I remember they were black and gold, or black and yellow, long. So, we were there for the weekend. We came on the Saturday, Sunday they had all the RAF out in a long line.
PL: Picking them up.
FC: [laughs] Doing the foot plod, picking them up. Nothing to do with me [laughs]
PL: Oh Frank, thank you so much that has been an absolutely fascinating interview.
FC: I’ve been linked up with FAST Farnborough Air Sciences Trust Museum to keep the heritage of Farnborough’s flying alive.
PL: Fantastic.
FC: We’ve built a replica of the first aircraft to fly. Fifty-two-foot span. Quite an impressive thing. So that draws a lot of people to see and learn about Cody, Sam Cody.
PL: Um, um, um.
FC: So, there’s another story in that.
PL: Um. Well I’d just like to end by saying a huge thank you on behalf of the Bomber Command Digital Archive because it’s been such a valuable, valuable interview. So, thank you very much indeed.
FC: Thank you. Well you’re welcome to my diaries as well.
PL: Thank you very much.
FC: Couple of years there, ok?
PL: I’ll pass that on.
FC: Thank you, yeah.
PL: Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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AColensoF170522
Title
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Interview with Frank Colenso
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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02:36:39 audio recording
Creator
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Pam Locker
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-05-22
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Colenso grew up in Cornwall and worked for a local newspaper at the outbreak of the war. He recalls the return of injured survivors from Dunkirk into Falmouth Bay. He joined the local defence volunteers following the bombing of Falmouth and describes training and weaponry within the Home Guard and civil defence precautions. He volunteered to serve with the RAF and trained as an fitter airframe and served with 83 Operational Training Unit. He discusses modifying Wellington aircraft, prior to being posted to Burma to serve with repair and salvage units. He speaks of the living conditions in Burma and of his work there which included repairing Spitfires and Hurricanes. After the war ended he remained in Burma as his unit was part of the Commonwealth occupation force prior to his demobilisation in 1946.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Burma
Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Lancashire
England--Blackpool
Burma--Akyab (District)
Burma--Meiktila
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1943
1945
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Carolyn Emery
83 OTU
bomb dump
bombing
civil defence
demobilisation
entertainment
fitter airframe
ground crew
ground personnel
home front
Home Guard
Hurricane
love and romance
military living conditions
Operational Training Unit
runway
Spitfire
training
Wellington
Window
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/185/3629/LSayerT591744v1.1.pdf
83e258c6faf6ed7815681549299d9b06
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sayer, Tom
Tom Sayer
T Sayer
Description
An account of the resource
13 items. An oral history interview with Flying Officer Thomas Sayer DFM (1922 - 2021, 591744 54901 Royal Air Force), two log books, service material, newspaper cuttings and photographs. After training as a pilot in the United States of America, Tom Sayer flew Halifaxes with 102 Squadron at RAF Pocklington. He was commissioned in 1944 and became an instructor.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Tom Sayer and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Sayer, T
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Tom Sayer's Royal Canadian Air Force pilot's flying log book. Book one
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LSayerT591744v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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one booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943-02-22
1943-02-25
1943-02-28
1943-03-03
1943-03-06
1943-03-09
1943-03-12
1943-03-15
1943-04-30
1943-05-25
1943-05-26
1943-05-27
1943-05-28
1943-05-29
1943-05-30
1943-06-11
1943-06-12
1943-06-19
1943-06-20
1943-06-21
1943-06-22
1943-07-13
1943-07-14
1943-07-15
1943-07-16
1943-07-24
1943-07-25
1943-07-26
1943-07-30
1943-07-31
1943-08-09
1943-08-10
1943-08-11
1943-08-12
1943-08-13
1943-08-17
1943-08-18
1943-08-23
1943-08-24
1943-08-25
1943-08-27
1943-08-28
1943-08-30
1943-08-31
1943-09-01
1943-09-05
1943-09-06
1943-09-27
1943-09-28
1943-09-29
1943-09-30
1943-10-04
1943-10-05
1943-10-08
1943-10-09
1944-07-18
1944-07-19
1944-09-01
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
France
Germany
Great Britain
United States
Alabama
Florida
England--Gloucestershire
England--Yorkshire
Georgia--Atlanta
France--Le Creusot
France--Montbéliard
Germany--Aachen
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Krefeld
Germany--Leverkusen
Germany--Mannheim
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Peenemünde
Germany--Wuppertal
Italy--Milan
Germany--Düsseldorf
England--Cornwall (County)
Italy
Georgia
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Description
An account of the resource
Royal Canadian Air Force pilot's flying log book for Sergeant Tom Sayer from 28 July 1941 to 17 December 1944. Detailing training and operations flown with Coastal Command and Bomber Command. After training in the United States and Canada he served at RAF Linton on Ouse, RAF Marston Moor, RAF Pocklington. Aircraft flown were Stearman, Vultee, Harvard, Oxford, Blenheim, Whitley, Halifax, Anson, Horsa and Stirling. He carried out a total of 35 complete operations as a pilot, eight antisubmarine patrols with 10 OTU from RAF St Eval, one with 76 Squadron from RAF Marston Moor and 25 with 102 Squadron from RAF Pocklington on the following targets in France, Germany and Italy: Aachen, Berlin, Bochum, Dusseldorf, Essen, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Hannover, Krefeld, Le Creusot, Leverkusen, Mannheim, Milan, Montbeliard, Munich, Nuremberg, Peenemunde and Wuppertal. His first or second pilots on operations were Sergeant Carrie, Sergeant Hewlett, Sergeant Lewis, Pilot Officer Mann, Sergeant Green, Flying Officer Phillips, Sergeant Davis, Sergeant Henderson, Sergeant Thorpe, Sergeant Miller, Flight Sergeant Cummings and Flying Officer Kay. He then became an instructor and glider tug pilot. The log book is well annotated and contains printed training material. He completed one additional special operation 18 July 1944 with 620 Squadron from RAF Fairford ‘(SAS. 3 chutists, 24 containers 4 paniers [sic])’ and 1 September 1944 from RAF Ringway ‘parachute jump 600’ singly into lake.’
10 OTU
102 Squadron
1652 HCU
17 OTU
620 Squadron
76 Squadron
81 OTU
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
Blenheim
bombing
bombing of Hamburg (24-31 July 1943)
Bombing of Peenemünde (17/18 August 1943)
Flying Training School
Halifax
Halifax Mk 1
Halifax Mk 2
Halifax Mk 3
Halifax Mk 5
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Horsa
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
RAF Fairford
RAF Holme-on-Spalding Moor
RAF Leconfield
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Marston Moor
RAF Ossington
RAF Pocklington
RAF Ringway
RAF Sleap
RAF St Eval
RAF Stanton Harcourt
RAF Tilstock
RAF Upwood
Stearman
Stirling
submarine
training
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/368/6092/ADeytrikhA160426.1.mp3
4a435123e44f4a9c72d4bc7278abb6ba
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Deytrikh, Andrew
Description
An account of the resource
Six items. An oral history interview with Wing Commander Andrew Deytrikh (1921-2016, 1381508, 111248 Royal Air Force), his log books and three photographs. After training as a pilot in 1941, Andrew Deytrikh flew Spitfires on 66 Squadron at a number of locations until July 1944 when he joined Vickers Armstrong as a production test pilot. After the war he served on 604 Squadron Auxiliary Air Force flying Spitfires, Vampires and Meteors. He finished his air force career as a wing commander air attache in Finland.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Andrew Deytrikh and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Deytrikh, A
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is 26th April 2016 and we are in Crowthorne with Andrew Dektesh and we are going to talk about his experiences, I mean’t to say Deytrikh, I beg your pardon, and we’re going to talk about his experiences in the RAF from the earliest days that you remember Andrew.
AD: Very well, ah we start now do we?
CB: Yes please. So where were you born?
AD: Ventnor, Isle of Wight.
CB: And tell us about the family and schooling and things like that?
AD: Well the family came over from Russia in Nineteen Nineteen, and they came over with the whole family on a British destroyer in the Black Sea from the Black Sea and they were allowed to leave the ship at Malta when the grandfather went all the way to London via trains and to to get a visa for the entire family to come and live in England, this he did and er as far as I can remember we have no further journey by sea except by train through er through Italy and north north of Malta, my sister was already born her name was Natalie and the parents then relied on the grandfather’s funds to be able to either purchase or to rent a big enough house into which they could share with the entire family and er as far as I can remember the the number in the family was quite con considerable and er the family was really quite large and they did have a young man called Serge and he after not too long in England he left to get educated in America how he got there or which ship he used I’ve no idea but anyhow he went there and he settled there well away from us and of course he er he did really very well indeed elec in the electrical system, he used to come and visit the family which then had settled or rented a house in Earls Court and there we remained for quite a considerable number of years until in fact the war broke out as far as I can remember we didn’t and the various families either got married here and then they went there way but not necessarily abroad. Can we have a few minutes.
CB: Right now we’re just now talking about your parents and what they did so starting with your mother and then your father, so what did your mother do?
AD: My mother took up sewing and she started a workshop in Knightsbridge where she could also employ English people to teach her how to sew and this she did remarkably successfully because she didn’t require any more teachers for quite a long time she cottoned on to doing all kinds of dresses for all kinds of people and eventually she was really doing too much, because my father was unable to find a job and he learnt how to be a taxi driver in London and for this purpose he required the knowledge that all taxi drivers in London know they know where all the streets are and of course he didn’t he used to go round on a bicycle in London to try and learn where all the streets were and where they went and what he could use and the way they actually did it and he did become a a taxi driver to bring in some money of some sort not very much but he used to drive the taxi at night because he didn’t want to be seen as a taxi driver amongst all his his gentle gentlemen friends [laughs] well he didn’t know [unclear] so he drove the taxi at night.
Other: [unclear]
CB: So Andrew when Dad wasn’t out taxi driving what was he doing?
AD: Well there was very little he could by which to earn some money so I think he must have spent a little while playing tennis at the Anglo Russian Sports Club in Chiswick and er that’s where I think he spent quite a lot of time because he didn’t like driving in in the daylight virtually he liked to do it at night for reasons that er are probably embarrassed then if if some of his friends saw him driving a taxi.
CB: Okay.
AD: And that’s that’s where I think he he started like that and then he was able to learn how to make ladies handbags because then they could sell handbags in the sewing in the sewing department where mother was in in Knightsbridge and it was a very nice place she’d she where she found the money was grandfather but grandfather he overstepped the mark with his money and they all lost the money with the with the er.
CB: The crash?
AD: With the crash let’s see Nineteen Twenty Four that’s when the family had to somehow fall apart and find different things to live in.
CB: And where were you at school during this time?
AD: Needless to say you would always find somebody who wants to make a name for themselves and this headmaster he took a liking to all the Russians emigres who came and they all had to find schools for their Russian born born children so he used to make it especially cheap for the poor Russians who had no money at all so how my moth how my parents managed to send me to the school and it was a lovely school we were beaten quite frequently because we er either I had no money no manner no manners at all or something like that but anyhow we found one headmaster and we were very sorry to leave the school in the end I was beaten three times I think but this was this was proper beating this wasn’t the cane the cane like at the main schools in Lon in England this was on your bare bottom with a rubber er shim shoe[?] so in other words every time we played sport which was very nearly every day we all had to get under under the shower so everybody could see thTB who’d been flogged today and all the markings were on on the bottoms of course [laughs] but anyhow it didn’t do me any harm I think I was beaten twice for lying or something like that I’ve never lied since even through all my life through my [laughs] with er in my in my adult adulthood I’ve never lied really it hasn’t been necessary to lie.
CB: So Prep School was run to age thirteen so where did you go?
AD: Polytechnic Regent Street
CB: Okay.
AD: But the headmaster wanted to send me to one of the expensive schools which we couldn’t afford and er I think they knew the person who ran ran that school they were in the Polytechnic Regent Street and whether I got into there at a reduced fee or whatever it was I don’t know but all I know is that my mother and my father they owed money for my schooling for quite a number of years later and she and she paid it if all off in the end she paid it all off in the end.
CB: So what did you do at the Poly at Polytechnic?
AD: I learnt how to speak English and how to behave myself [laughs] and this is where they taught us properly they put on the gowns and they wore the, what do you call those things?
CB: Mortarboards.
AD: Mortarboards that’s it I miss out words now.
CB: That’s all right okay.
AD: Mortarboards that’s right and we had to say [unclear] there was no none of this coming over without a tie and all this carry on but now they don’t know how to respect their teachers at all or the teachers don’t want to be respected.
CB: So what age did you leave there and what did you do?
AD: I was one year late I had to spend another year in the fifth form because I missed a year I had to have two glands removed I think that was it, and my two friends they both were in the higher form and when they left one joined the Air Force and the other joined the Navy the Fleet Air the Fleet Air Arm and that’s what I went for I’d thought I’d go and learn how to fly on those bi-planes what do you call them?
CB: Swordfish.
AD: Swordfishes that’s it and they turned me down despite the fact they were short of pilots they turned me down do you know why? Come on guess.
CB: Because you didn’t have a British name?
AD: That’s right well it was more than that I didn’t have British parents didn’t have they were foreign ‘oh we don’t take foreigners’ so I immediately joined the Air Force they took you straight away.
CB: Yes.
AD: They didn’t bother to interview you at all they wanted you [laughs] so I was very happy there I think I would have had a watery grave if I’d joined the Fleet Air Arm.
CB: So what age did you leave school?
AD: It was either seventeen or eighteen.
CB: Did you go straight in the RAF or did you have to go somewhere else first?
AD: No I got a job and I liked liked chem chem chemistry I loved doing at a chemistry shop and it was a firm in Langley Bucks not very far and I got a job in the laboratory that did test testing of the metal that was melted in in this firm and they used to produce en en engines or something to do with the Fleet Air Arm exactly what they did produce I don’t know but it was all ra secret so I believe something to do with submarines and then I stayed there I remained there for about a year or a year and a half and er that brought me up to November Four November Forty I think that’s what it was and that’s when the name of an airfield gone again where they built the –
CB: Oh Cardington.
AD: Cardington.
CB: Yes.
AD: Where I where I started with Cardington only to be told that I wasn’t worth the money they paid me [laughs] they said ‘you’re not worth anything as an AC2’ that’s what I was told [laughs] though I didn’t believe them at all I said ‘we must be worth something’ anyhow it all turned out the end.
CB: So what did you do at Cardington?
AD: Inoculations all the time, marching that’s about it.
CB: It was an initial training wing?
AD: Yes it was it was.
CB: And then what?
AD: And then I volunteered for pilot training and luckily I got it they didn’t alter it in the end which they did with some boys anyhow we got we got sent to [unclear] they called it the English Riviera.
CB: What um Tor Torquay?
AD: Torquay that’s it we got to Torquay where we given timber made rifles to do guard duty on certain certain places [unclear] and I waited to go on the first course of the pilot’s course that’s where I waited.
CB: How long did you have to wait?
AD: It seemed an awful long time but it wasn’t.
CB: Right.
AD: Within one year I was already on the squadron.
CB: So.
AD: Already trained and er I could fly straight away.
CB: Really so where did you go from Torquay?
AD: Yes give me time.
CB: So this next thing was your elementary flying training wasn’t it?
AD: Yes Cam Cambridge I think that’s right we were billeted in where all the students were billeted.
CB: University students yes?
AD: Yes but we didn’t do any flying there I was still able to do do my maths and I was really glad because I came top at maths [laughs] but you see none none of the other chaps who were volunteering to go they they hadn’t done they hadn’t done anything but they didn’t do very well at school I’m afraid.
CB: So from Cambridge didn’t you get any flying in Cambridge?
AD: No then I think I went to Hull Brough that’s it.
CB: Okay.
AD: That’s it Brough Tiger Moths.
CB: Okay yes.
AD: And that was the bit change it was lovely and once you’d um finished with Brough with the Tiger Moths it was that next next aeroplane which was [unclear].
CB: The Harvard next was it?
AD: Similar to the Harvard.
CB: Manchester.
AD: No no better than that no it was a big one forgot a single engine big one.
CB: Okay.
AD: I’ve got it in the log book.
CB: Well we’ll have a look in a minute.
AD: I’ve got it in there.
CB: But where did you go for that?
AD: From there?
CB: Yes to do that flying training? So you went to Brough and did your initial training?
AD: Yes I did.
CB: So there then you had to go to the advanced training?
AD: Yes that’s right.
CB: So where was that?
AD: Ah that’s gone too.
CB: Okay we’ll get to that.
AD: Does everybody have this trouble?
CB: Some do.
AD: Oh obviously not everybody [laughs].
CB: It’s a big variety but er in practical terms the fighter group was different from heavies so you didn’t do twin engine so?
AD: No I didn’t.
CB: So after you were on this other one
AD: It’s a well known its a well known light aeroplane brilliant.
CB: It’ll come to us in a minute okay.
AD: Yes.
CB: So when you’d done that at what stage did you get your wings then or later on?
AD: No it was later on Scotland
CB: Yes
AD: On the starboard side [laughs].
CB: Oh er
AD: Actually
CB: Montrose?
AD: Sorry.
CB: Montrose?
AD: Yes yes it was Montrose it was Montrose oh that’s where I think I got my wings.
CB: Yes okay, and what were you flying in Montrose?
AD: I think we’d got some clapped out old Spitfires that had been worn out with during the Battle of Britain [laughs].
CB: Yes I can believe it.
AD: I think well my log book will tell me.
CB: Yes, shall we pause for a mo, is your log book handy?
AD: Oh yes it is.
CB: So we’ve talked about you being we’ve talked about you being at Brough for the elementary flying school.
AD: Yes
CB: Er where you’re on Tiger Moths, we’ve talked about where you were at Montrose where you were on the Milesmaster [?] that we were struggling for earlier.
AD: Yes
CB: Then you went to the OTU the Operational Training Unit at Grangemouth so what happened then?
AD: It’s a complete blank I can’t really remember very much.
CB: What were you flying ‘cos now you’re on the advanced aeroplanes? So you are on the Hurricane and Spitfires now at the OTU?
AD: Yes yes could be, now I remember the first flight in the Spitfire it terrified me [laughs].
CB: Did it in what way?
AD: Well I I never had anything ahead of me for so long it was over six foot and I couldn’t see how am I going to and they’d keep on telling me ‘oh you’ve got to apply rudder on take off because it’ll its going to wind round to the left or to the right’ and I couldn’t get all that but I did.
CB: You did.
AD: But I did in the end.
CB: So because you couldn’t see over the nose you had to weave when you were taxiing?
AD: Oh yes that that.
CB: And so that was the first challenge wasn’t it?
AD: [Laughs] It was and of course what happens [coughs] you find your so slow that you’re boiling before you get to the end of the runway to take off so you had to shut it down and cool it down and then start starting it up all over again.
CB: So what was there an electric starter or did they have to bring the triac k [?]
AD: Oh trolleyack [?] yes.
CB: Yes
AD: [Laughs] Everything was with the trolleyack [?] [laughs].
CB: So what was the reaction of the ground crew let alone the aircrew when you overheated?
AD: Well they well there fed up with all these students though who are coming here.
CB: Messing up their aeroplanes?
AD: Well that’s it, then they’ve got to take the trolleyack[?] up to the aeroplanes we couldn’t tow it because there was nothing to tow it on to.
CB: On the aeroplane? How did they get the trolleyack[?] out there did they have to push it or?
AD: Pull pull it.
CB: They did.
AD: Oh yes.
CB: Basically on foot?
AD: I think so.
CB: Which is why they didn’t like it?
AD: They said ‘well you could quite easily take off in this as long as you go quickly’ we didn’t want to go quickly anyway [laughs].
CB: So you’ve done your taxiing and you’re not boiling so what’s the next part of the procedure?
AD: Well to keep it straight down the runway.
CB: So you progressively apply left rudder do you or right rudder?
AD: I I can’t remember I think yes it could have been.
CB: Well one rudder or the other.
AD: It could have been right rudder [laughs] I can’t remember which way it swung [laughs].
CB: Right but the point of the question is thT opening throttle you were encouraged to do gently and then correct with pressure on the rudder is that right?
AD: Yes.
CB: And then you’d get the tail up fairly quickly would you?
AD: Yes not not too far.
CB: Right.
AD: Otherwise you’d lose your propeller [laughs].
CB: Any incidents of that?
AD: No.
CB: Not you but the others?
AD: Not me I don’t think I ever had a any terrible incidents.
CB: So now you are taking off at what point do you retract the undercarriage?
AD: Once once you are airborne.
CB: Immediately?
AD: Yes because you are going to get too hot you want to cool you all down [laughs].
CB: Okay so the significance of that is the speed or the fact that the undercarriage itself is blanking?
AD: Yes it’s blanking it all.
CB: The radiator?
AD: Yes.
CB: Right so now you are climbing what are you climbing at roughly?
AD: I should think about a hundred and thirty or a hundred and forty.
CB: Oh quite slow?
AD: Yes.
CB: So you’re not on full throttle because you don’t want to overheat immediately?
AD: I I don’t want to run out of fuel either [laughs].
CB: Right so we’re at the OTU still so you can’t so there are no dual Spitfires so?
AD: No.
CB: So how did the instruction go?
AD: Well it went very well and there there were no difficulties on that first flight really nothing that frightened me.
CB: Okay so did you ever have a situation where the instructor flies beside you in another Spitfire?
AD: No they didn’t have the spare ones I don’t think they were running out of numbers of Spitfires.
CB: Were they?
AD: I think so.
CB: So how long would your flight be when you were at the OTU?
AD: I think the first one was only half an hour I think that was enough I think for me.
CB: That was just general handling what did you do just do did you do any aerobatics?
AD: I did only what the instructor told me I did I don’t want to do anything I I hadn’t been told what to do and I stuck rigidly to that.
CB: Right.
AD: And I’ve never had any difficulties really.
CB: So on you’re you’re doing er what did you do left hand circuits?
AD: Yes.
CB: So you are coming in go down downwind and then you go crosswind?
AD: Yes.
CB: And when you are turning what’s the main concern there to get right?
AD: Not to go down too quickly.
CB: Because?
AD: Because your you’ve still got flaps to do.
CB: Right so when do you put the flaps down?
AD: Once you are in in a straight line.
CB: On final.
AD: Yes.
CB: And when you are coming in what speed are you coming in on final?
AD: It had to be over well over seventy.
CB: Right, what’s the stalling speed of a Spitfire?
AD: Er I think it was about sixty five or something like that you didn’t want to lose seventy.
CB: No, so at the OTU there’s no dual so do they alternate between flying a Spitfire and flying a Manchester or what did they do or Master rather did they check you out regularly in a Master?
AD: Yes they used to dual a Spitfire circuit in the in the other one.
CB: In the Master.
AD: Yes.
CB: So did your hours at the OTU then you are ready for squadron?
AD: Yes you were ver very ready to go to Cornwall I didn’t even know where Cornwall was [laughs].
CB: So your first you joined 66 Squadron at Portreath.
AD: I did.
CB: How did that work?
AD: I had to wait a rather long time to get to get I wanted to hurry up and get on with it they didn’t want you to go too too quickly they didn’t want to take any risks with damaging an aeroplane because we were very short of aeroplanes.
CB: Because we are talking about Nineteen Forty Two here aren’t we early Forty Two that’s why they were worried about aeroplanes?
AD: Yes yes it was yes.
CB: So the characteristic from your log book of um er your time there is that you moved stations regularly why was that?
AD: It was er constantly rumoured that we were moving.
CB: Do you know why?
AD: Not really whether it’s because they were just having a general er exception or the number of hour days you could have at one station I don’t know.
CB: So going back to first station Portreath?
AD: Yes.
CB: When you arrived what happened the CO said?
AD: The C I’m trying to think who the CO was now I think he’s probably signed here [looking through log book].
CB: What I mean’t was what did he actually tell you because you arrive having come from the OTU?
AD: ‘Some somebody will take care of you and tell you all all about the Spitfire now you’d better get out and go and go find out what he wants you to do’ I think he’d [unclear].
CB: That would be a flight commander would it?
AD: That would be the flight commander yes.
CB: And how many flights in a squadron?
AD: Er [sighs] flights in a squadron there are only ttwo.
CB: Right.
AD: Although we are separated three times but there are it is only two two squadrons no what am I talking about two flights normally makes up a squadron.
CB: So the reason I am asking this is because the OTU had no dual and so?
AD: No.
CB: No dual control aircraft because the Spitfire in the war didn’t have a dual control arrangement.
AD: No we didn’t.
CB: So I am just wondering how you were effectively inducted into the squadron which was a front line operation?
AD: I don’t think they paid too much attention to that all I know is I had to wait a long time.
CB: Yes.
AD: Till I was allowed to go on flying and join the people who do the er –
CB: The circuits?
AD: No not the circuits no the patrols over the over the ships coming coming into England.
CB: Right so that was really my next point which was on your operation what was your first operation?
AD: That was follow me for the next hour and a half.
CB: So its shipping protection is it?
AD: Yes.
CB: Patrols?
AD: It was the convoys.
CB: Convoys?
AD: Yes we had to do the convoys.
CB: And this is all in the ?
AD: And this is all everyday everyday the convoys.
CB: Right so what sort of numbers of convoys were there many of them?
AD: Well they all took such a long time that you you only had one hour above them so they just move along like that.
CB: The merchants ships in those days were lucky to do seven knots.
AD: Well it did take a long time and of course the Germans sometimes used to bur to come bur burst in and hope to catch you unawares.
CB: What sort of height would you be flying at for convoy protection?
AD: It was only not very high about two thousand feet or a thousand feet because they all came in er low level.
CB: Oh the Germans all came in low level did they?
AD: They did yes.
CB: Where were they coming from?
AD: They were coming from either Cherbourg or that’s a what’s that piece of France that juts out?
CB: Any part of Normandy, Brittany?
AD: Yes Brittany that’s it.
CB: So which aircraft were they using?
AD: They were using 109’s and some of them had the pleasure of flying their 190’s and the 190’s were really quite an effect effective machine.
CB: So when you joined the squadron which model of Spitfire did you have?
AD: I had the 5 I think it was the 5 or could have been the one before it.
CB: The 4?
AD: Well I’m not so [unclear] that I ever flown the 4.
CB: So mainly 5’s and then you were flying over the convoys?
AD: Yes.
CB: And relatively low who was giving cover to you high up?
AD: The good lord.
CB: Right, so did you get jumped by the Germans?
AD: No but if there was a panic we were too late for it because we would have found out at home and by the time you get to the convoy they’ve gone.
CB: Yes, so apart from convoy patrols what else were you doing from in the early days?
AD: We used to be on readiness at the er runways edge every so often.
CB: Quick reaction?
AD: That’s it and when you spent an hour at the end of the runway you were hoping you can go home [laughs] and have a coffee or something like that [laughs].
CB: ‘Cos in the summer time it would be getting quite hot?
AD: It was well it did.
CB: What about in the winter oh well this was summer time.
AD: Well no.
CB: Oh no this is winter you were at Portreath. When you went to Italy what did you do there that was only short?
AD: Well we
CB: In Hampshire.
AD: Well we were always very busy.
CB: Were you?
AD: Because it’s very near the coast and it didn’t take long to go to go to get on onto a convoy that had been attacked.
CB: Right so now you are over the convoy what opportunities did you have to have a go at shooting at the Germans yourself?
AD: Very little because they didn’t come over in hordes as they did during the Battle of Britain they there wasn’t anybody to shoot at unless they were going to come over low fast and get in and get out.
CB: So how often did they get caught?
AD: Not well they didn’t do that all that often because I think even they were afraid to be caught.
CB: So moving on from there then you went up to the Orkneys so apart from the fact that what was the locals attitude to you?
AD: Well the local attitude was ‘why do you have to make such a lot of noise we don’t want all this we don’t want your aeroplanes’ so they were sad to see us so we were trying to be polite in the end.
CB: Did you have special briefings on how not to react?
AD: No no we didn’t but I don’t think it had a lot of them had twigged that they didn’t like us.
CB: Right.
AD: I don’t think many of them understood that.
CB: Just their temperament was it?
AD: We did have I did have a friend of two that I did know and I think I got the message from him that that ‘don’t you realise that you’re are a nuisance here’ well that.
CB: Well that was the basis of the hostility was it?
AD: It was.
CB: Not that you were English but because
AD: No not nothing to do with being English.
CB: Because you made a lot of noise?
AD: No.
CB: And what were you there to do?
AD: To catch the high fliers air er German aeroplanes that used to fly nice and high and we couldn’t get at them because they were too too high so what did they do they dismantled all the armour-plating that the pilot had round his seat and made the aircraft lighter so you could get up [laughs].
CB: How successful was that?
AD: It wasn’t very successful because we didn’t like it [laughs] we didn’t like it.
CB: So how high could you get?
AD: I think er the ones that we flew there they we were locked in remember we couldn’t get out without pulling something and we didn’t believe that the hood would open if we had pulled it I don’t know there are things I will never know.
CB: No.
AD: I can never understand why the engineering officer could couldn’t very well pull the thing for us to tell us and say ‘now this is the way it’ll work’ and it [unclear]
CB: You were screwed in because it was pressurised is that what it was why were they screwing you into the plane?
AD: A As well we didn’t we never liked the noise it made so we used to leave it off we didn’t use it.
CB: Leave what off?
AD: The high pressure thing.
CB: Ah right, so what was the seal like when you were up in the aeroplane then?
AD: Well it we didn’t care so long as we could breathe it was the oxygen we didn’t really care.
CB: Because you were young and it didn’t matter.
AD: Yes it always helped somebody else or it might well so you didn’t just worry too much about it.
CB: No, where were the German planes coming from?
AD: Norway.
CB: And what were they?
AD: Sorry.
CB: What German aeroplanes were they?
AD: They were the big weather weather ones wwith four engines the ones that would be easy to shoot down.
CB: The Condors?
AD: Yes.
CB: And you couldn’t get up there?
AD: We couldn’t get up there [laughs].
JS: How high could you fly Andrew?
AD: Well there I think thirty five thousand miles oh um feet was about the maximum we could make.
CB: And these people were above that?
AD: But towards the end we er we could mmmake for forty odd thousand.
CB: Could you?
AD: Yes but it was still falling out of the sky.
CB: Of course, so after you were in Scotland then you came down to the south so what were you doing in the south you were at Church Stanton then it was Redhill, Kenley?
AD: Yes Kenley and that’s all virtually in the Lon London area so we weren’t very far away from London.
CB: No, did you have any business coming towards you?
AD: Sorry.
CB: Did you have much coming in?
AD: No we were never if they were warning us they were always either late getting us airborne.
CB: Right.
AD: And when they got you airborne the controller would come on and say ‘sorry you’re too late dark they’ve gone’.
CB: Changing the subject slightly how much of bomber escort did you do?
AD: Quite a lot.
CB: And what was your role in bomber escort how did that work?
AD: To make certain you were both sides of the air of the er squadron of bombers er you could have a flight each on each side or if you if you were lucky you could be appointed the on the tail of at the tail of the bomber crew to make certain you could actually spot them coming coming for coming to chase them we er needed somebody at the end.
CB: Right, and er so you are escorting the bombers are you above them marginally or the same height or what?
AD: Not not well you are slightly above them so to give you a little bit of speed speed if you are attacked if they are attacking the bombers.
CB: So er what sort of bombers were you escorting in your experience did they tend to be the same?
AD: I’ve forgotten the names I’ve forgotten the names now.
CB: No, but did they tend to be medium bombers or bigger ones or?
AD: Medium ones.
CB: Always British RAF or were they American what were they?
AD: They could have been American too but the poor Americans they never knew where they were half the time [laughs].
CB: What navigationally?
AD: Yes [laughs].
CB: Right.
AD: I think only one chap er er the leader knew where where he was going.
CB: Yes.
AD: All the others didn’t seem to care they just followed him.
CB: Yes well they worked on the bomb leader principle didn’t they the bombing leader?
AD: Well we don’t know what principle really [laughs] so far they didn’t learn off our principles.
CB: So flying close to the bombers is a variation of what we talked about earlier is that actually quite a dangerous position to be in or was there always top cover when you were doing that in other words other squadrons flying high up?
AD: Well if you’re flying close and they want you close you’ll know that there’ll be others there.
CB: Above?
AD: Above or below we sometimes used to fly below them.
CB: On what basis to stop them coming up?
AD: Yes because.
CB: Because they’ve got to climb up?
AD: Because they’ve got their guns and shoot upwards.
CB: Oh right okay yes.
AD: So I suppose.
CB: Were you briefed about the upward firing?
AD: No we weren’t.
CB: Guns?
AD: No we weren’t I’m afraid I didn’t know about it.
CB: Right so I’m just trying to establish why you mentioned them firing up do you mean that they were flying upwards and shooting or that they were guns mounted to fire upwards?
AD: No whether the upward firing ones were night fighters possibly they could have been night fighters I don’t know whether they um but we never came across them.
CB: And you didn’t in daylight?
AD: We didn’t no.
CB: How often did you have to do night sorties?
AD: Not very often but when you did you had to go and do it.
CB: Yes.
AD: But you see the Spitfire was such a poor aeroplane to have as a night fighter you had these these big exhaust pipes either side of the of the aircraft so whichever side you looked at you had to blink your eyes.
CB: Because?
AD: Well because of the light.
CB: From the exhaust?
AD: They are very very bright at night they shone they really shone very well.
CB: And so how often did you engage in air to air combat with German aircraft yourself?
AD: Myself very seldom because when you could see that there were squadrons or they er or two squadrons as the case may be they would probably disappear very shortly and you either had to know to do something quickly and unless unless you did they would go away very quickly.
CB: What were their tactics really?
AD: Not to excite the Spitfire in anyway I think [laughs].
CB: So you’re escorting the bombers the Germans are coming in what are they doing exactly?
AD: Yes and then when they when you see the Germans coming in your squadron commander will say ‘turn turn about you’ve got to turn about you’ve all got to do a very tight turn’ and then what happened you lost the bombers all of a sudden come out where are all the aeroplanes and you are on your own that’s what hap that’s what does happen.
CB: So did the Germans have a technique for dealing with that to take advantage of it?
AD: Well you see since you can’t join you can’t join up again because you didn’t know where they are you come out of the your tight turn and there’s nothing there.
CB: Because you’ve missed the Germans in the first place is that what you mean?
AD: Well yes you have missed them or they have stop or they have stopped going at going at the er British bomb bombers or Americans as the case may be.
CB: Now in Bomber Command one of the important parts of their training particularly at the Heavy Conversion Unit and afterwards was well and at the OTU was fighter affiliation.
AD: Yes.
CB: So that’s when the fighters are making mock attacks on the bombers.
AD: Yes.
CB: How often did you have to do that?
AD: Occasionally but it was very occasional er it wasn’t a permanent thing or a weekly thing or a monthly thing.
CB: And how were you briefed about how to deal with it?
AD: Well I think they did have the occasional person from either from a bomber squadron or a friendly bomber squadron who could send somebody over to er to talk about it.
CB: Ah.
AD: I think that did happen but it didn’t happen very often.
CB: But I’m talking about where you’re flying and pretending to attack the bombers.
AD: Oh I see.
CB: That’s the fighter affiliation.
AD: Yes, no I don’t you know I can’t remember very much bomber affiliation with us.
CB: By the look of it you weren’t stationed in areas where there wouldn’t be much of that to do anyway.
AD: They’d only be there when we have to escort meet meet er two squadrons or three squadrons of bombers at a specific time they weren’t really good with the time.
CB: No who weren’t?
AD: No they weren’t.
CB: The bombers?
AD: Yes.
CB: And what do you mean by that?
AD: They were always late and we were always short of fuel.
CB: Right.
AD: Well we can’t very well give up escorting them once there over the target you can’t do that you’ve got to ssstay on and then have less fuel to go and land with but anyhow it did work out in the end.
CB: When you were flying bomber escorts what communication was possible between the bombers and the fighters?
AD: None I don’t think the squadrons commanders were ever given the frequency so they can get so they can talk to them.
CB: No. Again changing the subject er how many there were dogfights taking place on and off sometimes there was no dogfight but people got shot down how many people do you know or did you know of who were shot down?
AD: I think I can only assume that they were shot down I can’t because they just didn’t arrive back for tea or er lunch or whatever it was.
CB: So if they weren’t shot down what else could have happened to them?
AD: They could have run out of oxygen which is and then they fly into the sea and they don’t know that they are anywhere near the sea it was just terribly sad when they run out of oxygen and he doesn’t know he’s run out of oxygen.
CB: Can they not tell that they’re short of oxygen there’s no gauge for it?
AD: I think you probably reach a certain amount of hope possibility of thinking that way what’s going what’s going to stop you from flying into the sea.
CB: Right.
AD: Well that’d be one thing.
CB: Okay so.
AD: And we did have one case where the poor the poor boy he just flew straight into the sea.
CB: And being shot down how many people did you know who were shot down?
AD: Well my squadron commander was.
CB: What happened to him?
AD: Ah but he was still our squadron commander he was he managed to land somewhere near England.
CB: Did you ever get shot down?
AD: No.
CB: Did you ever get damage to your aircraft?
AD: I was frightened at one stage just when we had to do a tight turn because the bombers were being attacked well I when you find that you forgotten where all the aeroplanes are where why have they disappeared and they do disappear and you don’t know which direction they’ve disappeared and I was being followed by somebody who was trying to shoot me down in fact three of them they were I had three people on my tail and luckily I was on my way home and I was above them and I could see I could see the shots going passed me on either side and I could see in my mirror three of them having a happy time shooting at me so I thought I’d put put a finish to that all and I turned round and opened up all my guns everyone that would fire I would fire now and I’ll get somebody or one of them and all of a sudden they disappeared all three of them I couldn’t find them they ww when I looked for them.
CB: And its interesting in that circumstance you’re higher than them?
AD: Yes.
CB: How did you turn round?
AD: As quickly as I could.
CB: Yes but up, down, sideways or what?
AD: On the straight straight at them I was going as I aimed myself straight at them.
CB: Yes.
AD: So at least er something will be damaged but you don’t know but you’ll never know.
CB: No.
AD: You’ll never know.
CB: But you wouldn’t do a loop up or go down?
AD: Oh no.
CB: You’d come round hard?
AD: No nnot not in the turn I was keeping that for my down my downward thrust because that’s where I where I wanted the speed and they just vanished all three of them so with any luck I frightened them.
CB: Yes. So what guns did you have on the plane in those at that time?
AD: Well two were canons yes and er and four machine guns.
CB: Right, so that’s the Spitfire the earlier Spitfire that’s a 5 is it?
AD: I think that was a 6.
CB: 6.
AD: It could no the 6 was up in The Orkneys.
CB: What was different about the 6 then?
AD: Well I think it had four blades.
CB: Ahh
AD: I think I had four blades at that time.
CB: Right, so what so you had Spitfire 5 as time moved on what was the different ranges of Spitfires you moved to models?
AD: It was all to do with the len the length of the nose which seemed to be increasing all the time.
CB: So after the 5 did you go to a 9 a Spitfire 9?
AD: Yes we did have 9’s in the end.
CB: And they had four 20mm canons?
AD: No not four I think four was too much for the for the er Spitfire the whole thing shakes a bit but it was very nice to have the canons there but you don’t have all that amount of ammunition to fire.
CB: No, so what did they um what was the reason given for having so few canons just two?
AD: One er one on each wing.
CB: Yes, but why didn’t they put four on did they explain why they didn’t?
AD: I think they had had difficulty in fit fitting them to start off with to have two too close together two close together I don’t think the aeroplane would have liked it too much.
CB: Right, so you kept with the same squadron throughout the war?
AD: Yes.
CB: And er your log book your first log book runs out before I can see beyond Nineteen Forty Three where did you go in Forty Four and Forty Five you were in Hornchurch in Forty Three?
AD: Yes
CB: But you stayed on fighters flying all the time didn’t you?
AD: No well yes I did fly but not operationally.
CB: Okay.
AD: I got taken taken off operations flying just before D Day.
CB: Oh.
AD: I said ‘I’ve been waiting for this day and I’m not going anywhere I want to stay stay for the big day ’ and I did stay for the big day and after the er after that that’s when I went I I left the squadron.
CB: To do what?
AD: To fly with the people who actually make the Spitfire what’s the name of it?
CB: What Vickers Supermarine?
AD: What?
CB: Vickers yes.
AD: I went to work for Supermarines as one of the test pilots.
CB: In the south?
AD: Yes.
CB: Yes.
AD: Oh yes just er just very near Salisbury.
CB: Right they also had a plant at Marston at Swindon.
AD: Yes well they did yes but we used to go on on certain airfields where they were producing Spitfires and they needed testing.
CB: Yes and that’s what you did?
AD: I was I was able to do that mark you they didn’t want me to go to go there they wanted to have me in training command and nobody ever wants to go to training command [laughs] and I certainly didn’t because that would have been one way to get killed very quickly because er that’s where all the deaths happened at er in the training command.
CB: Right
AD: Or that’s that’s where we thought it all happened.
CB: Yes
AD: [Unclear] I thought Kyle was coming for you?
CB: So you worked as a test pilot how long did you do that for?
AD: I think about nearly two years.
CB: Oh did you.
AD: Yes but then I got sent to Germany.
CB: After the war this is?
AD: That was after the war this was after the war yes it was called no it’s gone.
CB: What the airfield?
AD: No not the airfield what the whole thing was called.
CB: Oh I see right.
AD: What we called it a certain thing.
CB: Well the occupation forces?
AD: The occup it was part of the occupation.
CB: Yes.
AD: Yes.
CB: Right so where were you based there this was with the squadron again was it?
AD: No no oh no this was completely different this was completely different.
CB: So let’s go back a step so you’re still a test pilot when the war finishes were you when the war in Europe finished?
AD: WWhen I when I finished it was.
CB: As a test pilot?
AD: The war the war was still on.
CB: As a test pilot?
AD: Yes.
CB: Oh right okay.
AD: Yes it was.
CB: Okay so where did you have a ground job next or what?
AD: Well it was a ground job but er it was er a pppeculiar ground job they took me on as part of the occupation forces as a Russian interpreter which I could manage.
CB: Because you kept up your Russian?
AD: Oh yes.
CB: Throughout.
AD: Well I had to pass exams and everything yes.
CB: Right.
AD: They didn’t do anything without.
CB: No no.
AD: Something you just [unclear] no.
CB: So you were a part of the occupying forces?
AD: Yes I was part of part of the occupying.
CB: Well how were you employed as an interpreter?
AD: On the borders with the Russians.
CB: Right so you’re in your full uniform?
AD: Yes.
CB: Acting for whom it was part of the administration was it it wasn’t the RAF you were working for at that moment is that right?
AD: Well well the RAF paid me.
CB: Yes.
AD: But who who the money come from this I don’t I didn’t didn’t know.
CB: No, so the war is finished let’s go back a bit though but um because your wife you met in the RAF where did you meet her?
AD: Hornchurch.
CB: Okay and what was she doing there?
AD: She was er a plotter.
CB: Right on the airfield or nearby?
AD: Nearby.
CB: And er how did you keep in touch with her throughout the war?
AD: Very poorly [laughs] because we weren’t allowed to be too ffriendly with the WAFS [laughs] and you probably know we weren’t allowed to get closer than about one or two feet or something like whatever it was [laughter] [unclear] but it didn’t make any difference to me I paid no attention to that when I did bring her back after the dance it was the station dance that I went to I dropped her outside the guard room and what did I do I kissed her which is def which is absolutely verboten [laughs] and it was outside the guard room but they weren’t on duty [laughs] and that was at Hornchurch.
CB: So you got away with that one?
AD: Yes but there was nobody there to say ‘oh you shouldn’t have done this or you couldn’t do that’ or whatever it is.
JS: What rank was she Andrew?
AD: Sorry
JS: What was her rank?
CB: What rank was she?
AD: Oh she was a leading aircraftswoman.
JS: Oh right.
AD: She didn’t want a commission she was very happy as she was.
CB: Why did she not want a commission because we’ve come across this before wife’s not wanting a commission why was that?
AD: They probably I don’t know I can’t think why not I said ‘anybody can get a commission whose reasonably intelligent’ and I’ve been in as a plotter and you’ve got very good remarks about your situation why don’t you want to be no she didn’t want to command anybody and er tell them to march properly or left foot or right foot or whatever it is she didn’t want any of that.
CB: Now the plotting of aircraft is what she was doing?
AD: Yes.
CB: It didn’t take place on the airfield did it it took?
AD: Near nearby.
CB: Was it?
AD: It was nearby it wasn’t on the airfield.
CB: So how did you come to meet her then if she didn’t actually work at the airfield?
AD: I met her at the dance.
CB: Oh at the dance.
AD: Yes I met her at the dance whether I had met her before the dance I don’t know but all but all I know is I was very glad that I had met her.
CB: Gosh.
JS: Can I interrupt?
CB: Yes.
JS: Andrew she was an LACW1 and you were an officer?
AD: Yes.
JS: Was it an officers mess dance or a sergeants mess dance?
AD: No it was the station dance.
JS: The station dance oh yes.
AD: The station dance.
JS: Did you know the protocol of officers taking WAF’s out WAFS that were LACW1, 2’s or whatever ?
AD: Well I did but I still would but I still used to take her out I did I did.
CB: But you weren’t supposed to?
AD: But I wasn’t going to be told.
JS: That’s it.
AD: [Laughs].
JS: We did have station dances where all ranks were included.
AD: Yes they were.
JS: That’s right yes.
AD: They were included all ranks.
JS: They were very few and far between weren’t they very infrequent should I say?
AD: Yes or there was an er occasion of some sort on the station or something like that.
CB: And um how did you you didn’t get married until Forty Five was that after hostilities finished or wqs the war still on?
AD: The war was still on.
JS: In Japan.
CB: No in Europe?
AD: In Japa.
CB: Was the war in Europe still on?
AD: No no it wasn’t no when I got to Germany the war was all over and I made use of my German language the way I learnt it at school anyhow it was, you’re a lovely boy.
CB: So I am just trying to establish how you came to be married when and what what made you decide to do it then?
AD: Because I was off off off operations.
CB: Right.
AD: I wasn’t flying over Deutschland anymore.
CB: And why didn’t you get married before then?
AD: Because I was on operations.
CB: Right and
AD: I had no intention of getting married while I was on operations.
CB: Because yes but why?
AD: Well [sighs] because I wouldn’t have wanted to leave her er a wife alone virtually I suppose.
CB: Right now you did your stint in Germany then what happened as part of the occupying forces what happened next?
AD: Oh I’ve got to think this I think when I got back from Germany I think we handed in our our things and that was it.
CB: You were demobbed?
AD: Yes.
CB: Do you remember where you were demobbed?
AD: No I don’t.
CB: Okay, so now out of the airforce what did you do next?
AD: I suppose I was off looking for a job to do but also [coughs] I I did join the Royal Aux Auxiliary Air Force because I obviously hadn’t had enough.
CB: That happened immediately did it they took you on?
AD: Yes straight away.
CB: And er where were you living and where did you fly from?
AD: I was living in a very posh place that was for rich people and it was North Kensington and it was a we had to share a flat in those days we shared a flat with somebody else and it was it was a lovely flat and that’s where we were living.
CB: As a family or just you and your wife?
AD: Er I think we’d had Catherine by then.
CB: Right, so what job did you do when you left the RAF what’s your first job when you left the RAF what was that?
AD: I’m trying to think.
CB: Oh you are.
AD: Yes I it [laughs] it is working but
CB: I’ll stop
AD: It’s not working very it’s not working very
CB: I’ll stop for a bit
AD: For a short period of time.
CB: So what did you do?
AD: I analysed metals in a laboratory that’s what it was and it was a very nice interesting job going to be paid very much more than five pounds a week and I think because of that I decided to think of something else and I couldn’t think of what to do but the Auxiliary Air Force was a godsend because they paid us they paid us not not normal kind of money that you’d expect but they paid sufficient to make it possible to buy a loaf of bread or whatever it is.
CB: So how much commitment was there in a month being in the Auxiliary Airforce did you have to do something every week or how did it work?
AD: Oh I used to go every week this was money to go to the airfield and fly [laughs] it was extra money but exactly how much I can’t I can’t remember it was whatever they were prepared to pay.
CB: So you started with Spitfires how did that progress over the years in aircraft?
AD: It progressed very nicely I was going through a second period of I wonder if I really want to fly that Spitfire anymore but anyhow it didn’t last very long then we had Vampires and um Meteors
CB: How did you find those after flying the piston engine?
AD: Lovely.
CB: What about the Vampires?
AD: There was no difficulties there.
CB: Right, the Vampire compared with the Meteor what was that like?
AD: The Meteor was better ‘cos there were two engines and it was a oohh a stronger aeroplane and it had two engines and it was nice.
CB: Were you always stationed at the same place for the Auxiliary Air Force or did you have other a variety?
AD: No we moved from Hendon we moved to er I’ll get it in a minute.
CB: Yes it’s okay.
AD: North Weald North Weald it’s just across the way virtually.
CB: Yes yes.
AD: And then I think I moved into my first house so I think I had to borrow money from my my bits of my family who were prepared to lend us the money to bor to bor to borrow the necessary amount.
CB: What um what was the rank what was your promotion like how did that work?
AD: Well I was still a flight lieutenant but I was a senior flight lieutenant I was in charge of all the other other boys that had been taken on because the CO of my 66 Squadron took over from John Cunningham who was the first CO Auxiliary CO had given up because he was doing too much test flying in in er his company and er this chap he took he took over now why have I said that he did take over there that’s right and he and he became the six the 66 Squadron although the squadron itself was 604.
CB: Right Auxiliary Air Force?
AD: That was that was the big change I ever had was 604.
CB: So when did you get promoted to squadron leader or did you jump that and go straight to wing commander?
AD: No I didn’t jump anything I had to pass the exams at [laughs] and in the end I hadn’t passed the exams for squadron leader that’s right and then it all all altered slightly because they were short of er of all these people would get taken on as er in the Foreign Office you’re taken on by the Foreign Office virtually.
CB: Oh.
AD: As and air attaché that’s it I became an air attaché.
CB: Did you really?
AD: Yes I became an air attaché because of my Russian know knowledge and Finland is only round the corner there.
CB: So you went to Finland?
AD: I went to Finland.
CB: How long did that last?
AD: Three years.
CB: As a wing commander?
AD: Yes.
CB: So they re-engaged you effectively as a did they or were you an auxiliary did you have auxiliary on here?
AD: No because they’d given up the auxiliaries when I when I left unfortunately.
CB: So this is the mid fifties is it?
AD: Yes Fifty Three to Fifty Six I think I was in Finland.
CB: Right
AD: Yes.
CB: A nd that’s the origin of the name of your house?
AD: That is quite correct oh you’ve guessed that have you [laughs].
CB: So what did you do there?
AD: I became a spy as all attachés are spies except undercover you didn’t you didn’t behave like a spy you attended all the necessary meetings that all these chaps had and er the Russians were the big spymasters I’ve got a photograph of all the spies that I did work with if you’d like to see them
CB: Fascinating.
AD: Would you?
CB: Yes.
AD: They were they were from Norway from er from er I can’t [unclear] I’ll show you the photograph yes.
CB: Right so you were working as an air attaché from Fifty Three to Fifty Six what did you do after that you returned to England what did you do?
AD: I worked for the Government in the Government Office.
CB: Right the books on there.
AD: It could it could well be it could well be.
CB: [Laughs] And then when did you retire from work altogether?
AD: I don’t know.
CB: Was it sixty or sixty five or?
AD: Yes I must have been sixty five I should think.
CB: Thank you very much that was really interesting.
AD: And here’s a photograph of the first squadron I went in Portreath as a young man and I must have been twenty.
CB: Really
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Andrew Deytrikh
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-04-26
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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01:29:22 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ADeytrikhA160426
Conforms To
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Pending review
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Description
An account of the resource
Andrew Deytrikh’s family emigrated from Russia in 1919 and he was born in the Isle of Wight. He grew up in London before being employed in a laboratory testing metals. He joined the Royal Air Force in 1940 and after training as a pilot he joined 66 Squadron at RAF Portreath protecting merchant convoys, and then went on bomber escort duty. Towards the end of the war he became a test pilot and was then selected as part of the Occupation Forces as a Russian interpreter. He met his wife who was a plotter in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force and married in 1945. Post war he worked testing metals at a laboratory and became an air attaché at the Foreign Office in Finland for three years. On his return he worked for the Government Office. He retired at the age of sixty five.
Spatial Coverage
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Finland
Great Britain
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
England--Cornwall (County)
Contributor
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Jackie Simpson
66 Squadron
aircrew
Fw 190
ground personnel
love and romance
Me 109
pilot
Spitfire
Tiger Moth
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/81/7914/LGodfreyCR1281391v10001.2.pdf
2bb4feee369606f050f7e0e0563b6922
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Godfrey, Charles Randall
Subject
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World War (1939-1945)
Description
An account of the resource
64 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant Charles Randall Godfrey DFC (b. 1921, 146099, Royal Air Force) and consists of his logbook and operational notes, items of memorabilia, association memberships, personnel documentation, medals and photographs. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron. He flew as a wireless operator in the crew of Squadron Leader Ian Willoughby Bazalgette VC.
The collection has has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by David Charles Godfrey and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Godfrey, CR
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-11-18
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Charles Godfey's observer's and air gunner's flying log book
Format
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One booklet
Language
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eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LGodfreyCR1281391v10001
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Belgium
Egypt
France
Libya
Greece
Germany
Gibraltar
Great Britain
Netherlands
Scotland
Atlantic Ocean--Baltic Sea
Belgium--Haine-Saint-Pierre
Egypt--Alexandria
Egypt--Cairo
Egypt--Ismailia (Province)
Egypt--Marsá Maṭrūḥ
Egypt--Tall al-Ḍabʻah
England--Berkshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cumbria
England--Devon
England--Gloucestershire
England--Hampshire
England--Kent
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Northumberland
England--Oxfordshire
England--Rutland
England--Shropshire
England--Suffolk
England--Wiltshire
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
France--Angers
France--Caen
France--Creil
France--Mantes-la-Jolie
France--Nucourt
France--Rennes
Germany--Wiesbaden
Germany--Berchtesgaden
Germany--Bottrop
Germany--Chemnitz
Germany--Dorsten
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Düsseldorf
Germany--Essen
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Hamburg
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Kleve (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Mainz (Rhineland-Palatinate)
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Mönchengladbach
Germany--Munich
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Osnabrück
Germany--Osterfeld
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Troisdorf
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Germany--Wesseling
Greece--Ērakleion
Greece--Piraeus
Libya--Darnah
Libya--Tobruk
Netherlands--Hasselt
Netherlands--Rotterdam
Scotland--Moray
Germany--Münster in Westfalen
England--Cornwall (County)
North Africa
Libya--Banghāzī
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Libya--Gazala
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1942-03-23
1942-06-10
1942-06-11
1942-06-12
1942-06-13
1942-06-14
1942-06-15
1942-06-16
1942-06-17
1942-06-18
1942-06-19
1942-06-20
1942-06-22
1942-06-23
1942-06-24
1942-06-25
1942-06-26
1942-06-28
1942-06-29
1942-07-02
1942-07-03
1942-07-05
1942-07-08
1942-07-09
1942-07-10
1942-07-12
1942-07-13
1942-07-15
1942-07-16
1942-07-17
1942-07-19
1942-07-20
1942-07-25
1942-07-26
1942-07-28
1942-07-29
1942-07-31
1942-08-01
1942-08-06
1942-08-07
1942-08-08
1942-08-09
1942-08-14
1942-08-15
1942-08-16
1942-08-17
1942-08-18
1942-08-19
1942-08-21
1942-08-22
1942-08-23
1942-08-24
1942-08-25
1942-08-26
1942-08-27
1942-08-28
1942-08-29
1942-08-30
1942-08-31
1942-09-01
1942-09-03
1942-09-05
1942-09-06
1942-09-08
1942-09-09
1944-05-06
1944-05-08
1944-05-12
1944-05-13
1944-05-27
1944-05-28
1944-05-29
1944-06-05
1944-06-07
1944-06-08
1944-06-09
1944-06-12
1944-06-13
1944-06-15
1944-06-16
1944-06-23
1944-06-24
1944-07-07
1944-07-09
1944-07-10
1944-07-14
1944-07-15
1944-07-16
1944-07-18
1944-07-19
1944-07-20
1944-07-23
1944-07-24
1944-07-25
1944-07-26
1944-07-28
1944-07-29
1944-07-30
1944-08-01
1944-08-04
1944-11-17
1944-11-18
1944-12-04
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-12
1944-12-15
1944-12-18
1944-12-24
1944-12-28
1944-12-29
1945-01-01
1945-01-02
1945-01-05
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-01-23
1945-02-01
1945-02-02
1945-02-03
1945-02-04
1945-02-07
1945-02-08
1945-02-09
1945-02-14
1945-02-15
1945-02-18
1945-02-20
1945-02-21
1945-03-07
1945-03-08
1945-03-22
1945-03-24
1945-03-25
1945-03-31
1945-04-11
1945-04-13
1945-04-14
1945-04-25
1945-04-30
1945-05-05
1945-05-07
1945-05-15
1945-05-22
1945-06-08
1945-06-18
1945-08-03
1945-08-05
1944-06-06
1944-08-03
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Description
An account of the resource
Observer's and air gunner's flying log book for Pilot Officer Godfrey from 3 of February 1941 to 25 of September 1945 detailing training schedule, instructional duties and operations flown. Aircraft flown were Dominie, Proctor, Wellington, Hampden, Anson, Defiant, Martinet, Stirling, Lancaster, C-47 and Oxford. He was stationed at RAF Manby, RAF Bassingbourn, RAF Harwell, RAF Lossiemouth, RAF Downham Market, RAF Hemswell, RAF Wittering, RAF Abingdon, RAF Upper- Heyford, RAF Upwood, RAF Gillingham, RAF Cranwell, RAF Melton Mowbray, RAF Church Fenton, RAF Market Drayton, RAF Waddington, RAF Upavon, RAF Sywell, RAF Carlisle, RAF Linton-On-Ouse, RAF Newbury, RAF Cottesmore, RAF Brize Norton, RAF Exeter, RAF Andover, RAF Hampstead Norris, RAF Hythe, RAF Gibraltar, RAF St Eval, RAF El Dabba, RAF Shaluffa, RAF Abu Sueir, RAF Almaza, RAF Blyton, RAF Ingham, RAF Marston Moor, RAF Leeming, RAF Acklington, RAF Middleton St. George, RAF Newmarket, RAF Moreton-in-Marsh, RAF Leconfield, RAF Skipton-on-Swale, RAF Wyton, RAF Warboys, RAF Westcott, RAF Gravely and RAF Worcester. He completed 37 operations with 37 Squadron in North Africa and the Mediterranean and 59 operations with 635 Squadron to targets in Belgium, France and Germany. Targets included: Heraklion, Piraeus, Derna, Tamimi, Benghazi Harbour, Gazala, Mersa Matruh, Ras El Shaqiq, El Daba, Tobruk, Fuqa, Quatafiya, Düren, Munster, Mantes- Gassicourt rail yards, Haine St. Pierre rail yards, Hasselt rail yards, Rennes, Angers rail yards, Caen, Ravigny rail yards, Nucourt, Wesseling oil refineries, L’Hey, Kiel, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Notre Dame, Trossy St. Maximin, Karlsruhe, Merseburg, Essen, Ludwigshafen, Duisburg, Dusseldorf, Mönchengladbach, Troisdorf, Dortmund, Nuremberg, Hannover, Munich, Gelsenkirchen, Mainz, Wiesbaden, Osterfeld, Kleve, Wanne- Eickel, Chemnitz, Wesel, Worms, Hemmingstedt, Dorsten, Bottrop, Osnabruck, Berchtesgaden, Ypenburg and Rotterdam. Notable events are that Charles Godfrey undertook a search and rescue operation in a Defiant and during the operation to Trossy St Maximin 4 August 1944 his aircraft, Lancaster ND811, was brought down by anti-aircraft fire. Whilst he survived and evaded, his pilot, Ian Willoughby Bazalgette was awarded the Posthumous Victoria Cross. The hand written notes added to the end of the log book give a description to the crash, and his attempts to evade capture. Pilot Officer Godfrey also took part in Operation Manna, Operation Exodus and Operation Dodge.
11 OTU
15 OTU
20 OTU
37 Squadron
635 Squadron
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of the Normandy coastal batteries (5/6 June 1944)
Bombing of Trossy St Maximin (3 August 1944)
C-47
Cook’s tour
Defiant
Dominie
evading
Hampden
killed in action
Lancaster
Martinet
missing in action
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operation Dodge (1945)
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
Pathfinders
Proctor
RAF Abingdon
RAF Andover
RAF Bassingbourn
RAF Blyton
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Carlisle
RAF Church Fenton
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Cranwell
RAF Downham Market
RAF Graveley
RAF Hampstead Norris
RAF Harwell
RAF Hemswell
RAF Ingham
RAF Leconfield
RAF Leeming
RAF Linton on Ouse
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Manby
RAF Marston Moor
RAF Melton Mowbray
RAF Middleton St George
RAF Moreton in the Marsh
RAF Newmarket
RAF Skipton on Swale
RAF St Eval
RAF Sywell
RAF Upavon
RAF Upper Heyford
RAF Upwood
RAF Waddington
RAF Warboys
RAF Westcott
RAF Wittering
RAF Wyton
shot down
Stirling
tactical support for Normandy troops
training
Victoria Cross
Wellington
wireless operator
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Spatial Coverage
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England--Cornwall (County)
Title
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Cornwall [place]
Description
An account of the resource
This page is an entry point for a place. Please use the links below to see all relevant documents available in the Archive.
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/536/8772/AWatsonJ150904.2.mp3
ee8d08328019cf700e7fdf3bbbb410ba
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Watson, Joan
J Watson
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Watson, JB
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Joan Watson.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-09-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
JM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Julian Maslin and the interviewee is Mrs Joan Watson. The interview is taking place at Mrs Watson’s home on the 4th of September 2015. Mrs Watson, Joan, I wonder if I could ask you to start by just telling us a little bit about your background, your family history, etcetera.
JW: My name originally was Joan Betty Watson and I lived, I lived at, in Maple Street, at Bracebridge. And very often we’d go into Lincoln for dances and whatever. There was quite a few aerodromes around Lincoln and lots and lots of airmen. I really don’t know how many but I think there were twenty five thousand airmen that were killed in the war there. By then I was about eighteen but still very young. What else?
JM: Where did you go to school?
JW: Oh I went to school at Bracebridge. The Bracebridge School. Until I was about eleven and then I went to work at Ruddocks in the centre of Rugby.
CW: Lincoln.
JW: Hmmn?
CW: Lincoln.
JW: Oh Lincoln. Yeah. And then on to Rugby.
JM: And Ruddocks you were saying was a printers.
JW: Yes. I was in the printing room and, and also in the packing department. I was there until I was about twenty six. Yeah. Earning six shillings a week. So it worked out about tuppence an hour. Hard labour [laughs] but we enjoyed it. We enjoyed life and although these bombs and things were being dropped I don’t think you realise. You don’t.
JM: Did you have a blackout at home or at work and did that affect you?
JW: Oh yeah. You used to have your curtain, all your curtain, black. All your windows were on a frame or we did and with black. Blackout on. And if anybody, you know, shone a light or anything there’d be wardens about and they would tell you to come and put the lights out so that it wouldn’t show. For the planes to see that were coming over. But Lincoln were very lucky. They were very lucky. They didn’t, they only got — I think there were three bombs. One in the lake, one on the nurse’s quarters but no one was killed or hurt. And then a house which was bombed. But not actually bombed. I think crashed or something into it but no one was killed. So they were very very lucky in Lincoln.
JM: Very fortunate. Yes.
JW: Yes.
JM: Yes.
JW: Not that you want to have a bombing session anywhere but —
JM: Did you have any evacuees coming up from London?
JW: Yes. My, my mother had two children. Two girls from Sheffield.
JM: From Sheffield.
JW: Yeah. They were, you know, quite good little girls but when you think they came all the way more or less on their own. Well, with, people brought them but they had to stay with us, just strangers. It was marvellous really how it all worked out.
JM: How long were they with you for?
JW: Oh. I think about nearly a year I think. Some of them. Yeah. But they weren’t very old. They were only about seven. Seven. Probably ten year old. Very young.
JM: Did they have any contact with their families from Sheffield?
JW: Only once. Because when they arrived they hadn’t got many clothes. My mother said, ‘Well, you know, I can’t give them clothes,’ because we was on rations.’
JM: Yeah.
JW: And coupons. So finally my mother wrote to them and said, “Well, will you bring them some clothes because I can’t afford my coupons to buy them clothes.”
JM: Yes.
JW: Yeah. But anyway —
JM: Yeah. And after they went back was there any further contact with them.
JW: No. No. Because years went on. No. We didn’t. we didn’t keep in touch at all with them.
JM: Did you know anybody who had a job as an air raid warden or a fireman? Or anything?
JW: Oh well all the men up the road. Up the road. I lived in Maple Street in Lincoln. And all the men took their turn at fire work. You know.
JM: Fire watching.
JW: Fire watching and things. Even I went out with my dad at 3 o’clock in the morning because we all had our turn to go to work.
JM: And was that a —
JW: Because you all still had to go to work in the morning.
JM: Yeah. And was the fire watching — were you walking round the streets or did you have go to one particular place.
JW: Pop in. You’d pop in home. Have a cup of tea and then out again. Cheated a bit. And, yes, I mean really, I know it awful to say but the war to me didn’t affect me like, well, Coventry or Birmingham. It wasn’t, I know it’s awful to say but it wasn’t as bad for us.
JM: But you must have been aware of all the airmen.
JW: Oh yeah. Oh gosh. You used to go to a dance and really enjoy the dance. And you’d say to this airmen, ‘Oh, see you next week.’ Of course they didn’t come back. Loads. What was it? Twenty five thousand wasn’t it?
JM: From Lincolnshire. Roughly. Yes. Yes.
JW: Yeah.
JM: We often read of girl’s putting gravy browning on their legs and drawing — did you do that?
JW: Oh yes. Yes because no — I didn’t do that. No. No. And yes because we didn’t have tights or anything then. The Americans brought the tights in but we, you know, one thing you couldn’t afford them sometimes. Sometimes you had to give coupons for things like that. So clothing, I used to, oh we used to make underwear out of parachute silk. You know, nice underwear.
JM: Where did the parachute silk come from?
JW: Well, I don’t know. It must have been perhaps from the aerodromes, maybe. I don’t know.
JM: Yeah.
JW: But yeah.
JM: Now, you said there were lots of different nationalities including Americans.
JW: Oh yes.
JM: How did you get on with those? Did you see them?
JW: Oh fine. Fine. I’ll tell you what did annoy me a little bit. My brother was a prisoner of war and you’d have Germans and they’re prisoners of war. Because my brother was shut away kind of thing and they were free. And it used to annoy you a little bit. I mean we didn’t treat them nastily. I don’t mean in that way but you used to think well my brother’s shut away in — you know.
JM: Those enemy POWs must have been doing some work on the farms or whatever.
JW: Yeah. They went on the farms and different things. Yeah.
JM: Yes.
JW: Yes. Yes.
JM: Did you speak to any at all?
JW: Oh yes. We used to speak to them because well some of them couldn’t speak English anyway but you know you’d make, you’d make yourself known and whatever. And if you were dancing anyway you just used to jump and jitterbug about. That’s it.
JM: So you’re saying that these prisoners of war might have been in the dance halls.
JW: Oh yes. They were.
JM: Really.
JW: Yeah. And in the cinemas. You’d sit next to one in the cinema. Yeah. That was strange wasn’t it?
JM: That’s very strange.
JW: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you could. You know they were free and you know I used to think well my brother’s locked away. I think he was on the Malta convoy. Remember the Malta convoy?
JM: Yes.
JW: He was on that. When the ships, a lot of ships were sunk. Weren’t they?
JM: Yes.
JW: But yeah because yeah they were on the land. They were working on the land these Germans. They used to have these big coloured patches on them to show that they were prisoners of war. But —
JM: And how did these young men seem to you when you spoke to them.
JW: Well they were friendly. Just — you know. Just as though they were English quite honestly.
JM: Right.
JW: Yeah. But –
JM: So they weren’t Nazis.
JW: Oh no. No. Well I didn’t meet any anyway. Perhaps with Lincoln, Lincoln might be more sociable from other places but —
JM: Would you tell us what it was like living on the rations that you were?
JW: Oh terrible. Terrible it was. You weren’t starving. You weren’t starving but you didn’t get — I mean you got an ounce of butter each. Everything was rationed. You was alright if you were probably on a farm because they’d have the butter and the different things. And clothing. I used to make my own clothes out of whatever or you’d have an old coat and you’d cut if up and make a skirt or [pause] you’d manage. But —
JM: Did you get any extras from the farms in Lincolnshire?
JW: Oh no. No. We didn’t live, well Lincoln, well it is farm land I would say but no. No, you didn’t. But my dad had a couple of chickens or so. And he had them in the garden. So we got eggs alright. But yeah. Henrietta. Do you remember Henrietta?
CW: I do. I do.
JW: My dad had a chicken. Henrietta. Because she was on the seat with him. Then when the poor old thing died nobody would eat it [laughs] but yeah. I mean really as I say I don’t think I realised and a lot of young ones didn’t realise it was a war. Yeah.
JM: What age would you have been when the war started?
JW: Fourteen. So I was about eighteen when I was dancing and getting out at night you know. But no —
JM: Were you ever frightened?
JW: I used to be a bit frightened walking home. Because you’ve got to go near The Common. You remember The Common? And, you know, it was all very open land. Mind you you didn’t read things in the paper like you do nowadays with these murders and things going on like that. It wasn’t like that then, it was, it was quieter. Much quieter.
JM: So your fear was more as a young girl rather than from enemy action.
JW: Oh yes. Yes. Yeah. But we used to meet all these people and the lads were lovely, you know. You’d have a dance with them and whatever and they were lovely most of them. Of course the Australians were here, the New Zealanders were here, Canadians, the Poles. They were all here. In Lincoln there was a bit of everything I think.
JM: Yes. There were Australian squadrons.
JW: Oh and the Aussies yeah.
JM: And Polish squadrons, nearby.
JW: Yeah.
JM: Yes.
JW: Yeah. Yeah. A bit of everything.
JM: Yes. Did you ever go to a very famous pub called the Saracens head? Do you remember?
JW: Yes. Yes. Not very often because it was very posh.
JM: Was it? It was where the officers went was it?
JW: Very posh. Yes. Yes. No we didn’t go there very often.
JM: So where were your —
JW: But I didn’t drink in those days anyway. Well, I don’t drink now but I mean I didn’t drink then. Probably somebody who drank a lot might go to any of the pubs. They were quite popular the pubs were.
JM: How much would it cost for a fruit juice or something a lady would drink?
JW: Oh I don’t know. I’ll tell you what the cinema was. The cinema was sixpence, nine pence and one and sixpence. So no wonder we had low wages. Because —
JM: So was sixpence at the back?
JW: One and sixpence you were posh. Yeah. Yes it was.
JM: What sort of films did you watch?
JW: Well it varied really. I can’t remember now what they mainly were.
JM: Were they Hollywood Films?
JW: Oh yeah mainly, mainly Hollywood.
JM: Yes.
JW: Because in those days they were mainly. But they were good films. Good. Or Charlie Chaplin. That’s what they were. And, ‘Old Mother Riley.’ That type of film there used to be.
JM: Did the glamour of Hollywood. Did that help when you were living on rations?
JW: Not really. Because the clothes. You think of people in Hollywood. The lovely clothes they had. We didn’t. We was kind of — I don’t mean we were untidy. I mean I used to make all my coats or change them from one coat to another. You just, you just accepted it.
JM: What did you think when you heard the aircraft taking off to go out on a raid?
JW: Well Clive knows that Waddington, which is on the hill, you used to go. Posted there wasn’t you Clive? And that was above where my mother lived. So if you’re hanging out the washing and these bombers were going over. Oh terrific noise. Terrific noise. And I was talking to someone — oh Margaret from Grantham the other day and she was saying a lady she knew used to count how many bombers went out and how many bombers came back. You know. But I wasn’t, I wasn’t in that area. That area. Type of thing
JM: You wouldn’t know whether she was upset if she realised that some had been lost.
JW: Oh no. No. I mean you’d hear them coming back but well unless they came right over us — they might be coming in from a different direction might they? So they wouldn’t probably be going back over the hill towards. But they were noisy. And the Vulcan. Very, very, very noisy. But yeah, I think, I don’t think we ever realised there was a war on in Lincoln. I mean you did if you’d lost someone. Naturally. But —
JM: Did you know people who were in that situation? Who had the telegrams?
JW: We had a telegram from my brother. About my brother. And no [pause] well you can’t really explain what it’s like. You think they’re a long way away but, and you know you can’t see them but there’s nothing you can do about it.
JM: No. No. No. Were you aware that the war was going well as the years went on? Did you think that we were going to win?
JW: I don’t think, I don’t think we even thought about that. You kind of live from day to day.
JM: So even when the Americans arrived they weren’t in Lincoln but they were in Lincolnshire.
JW: Yeah.
JM: How did you feel, other people feel about that?
JW: Well you felt that they’re helping anyway. And I’ll tell you what. They did send a lot of stuff. Foodstuff to us.
JM: So you got the chocolates and the stockings.
JW: Yeah. And the tights.
JM: The stockings.
JW: We’d never heard of tights until the Americans came and I mean I used to buy tights from the market with little ladders in and I had a little hook and I’d do my ladders all the way up. Well until you could see where it came to. Then I’d sew them up the rest. But yeah. Oh we managed. We managed. Yeah.
JM: Now we’ve just commemorated VE day this year. Do you remember what you were doing on VE day?
JW: Yes. I went around the Stonebow in Lincoln. And loads of people were there with drink and whatnot. I didn’t drink at the time but they all got in to Stonebow which is — Do you know Lincoln?
JM: I do.
JW: Yeah. Well you know the Stonebow there.
JM: I do.
JW: Well everybody was accumulating there.
JM: Right.
JW: Because Bracebridge, where I lived was about two miles from Lincoln I think. Wasn’t it?
JM: Yes.
JW: But we used to walk all over, we didn’t, or bike. Get a bicycle. But really as I say I don’t think you could realise it. I would hear about Coventry and places and Birmingham. How badly it was bombed. But you don’t realise. You feel for them.
JM: Now you say that you lived at Bracebridge.
JW: Yeah.
JM: And we know there was a factory there that repaired Lancasters.
JW: Yes.
JM: Did you ever see any of this?
JW: No. Would that be Waddo?
JM: Yes. It was.
JW: Yes.
JM: Not far from Waddo and they would trundle down the road there. Down the A15.
JW: That’s right. Yeah.
JM: But you didn’t see that yourself.
JW: No.
JM: No.
JW: No. Because that as over the hill to us.
JM: Right.
JW: Yeah. And we didn’t go over a lot that way did we? Because that’s where you were wasn’t it? Waddo.
JM: Would you say that, from the point of view of a young woman did the war help you in any way? Did it give you skills or opportunities that you wouldn’t otherwise have had?
JW: I don’t think so. Not, not in my age. I don’t think so. No. I mean the job I did was printing at Ruddocks. And I was saying I think to you the other day you’d got about two hundred and fifty sheets of paper and you fed them into this machine individually to be folded into books and different things. But, you know, every day was much the same more or less. Yeah.
JM: When the war was over Britain went through quite a difficult time. Rationing continued etcetera. Can you tell us a little bit about what it was like in those in those days. In the days immediately after the war was over?
JW: Well I we went down from Lincoln because I got married to a Lincoln man. And we got married and then we went down to live in Cornwall. Not St Mawgan [Pause] St Eval. Down there and there was a little village and everything was rationed still but gradually we’d get a banana each. Or we might get an apple each. Or — that was a treat to us. A banana was a treat to us.
JM: But that was down in Cornwall.
JW: Yeah but you know they only had so many. So if they ran out that was it. If you weren’t there or then there was another man in Lincoln where I worked. You’d look out the window and he — Mr Cammack. He was just like Santa Claus and he’d come tottering along and he’d got a sweet shop. And he’d put his hands up to let us know he’d got his sweets in. But he, we’d have to get coupons for them. But it was a treat to have perhaps a kitkat or something like that. But I think it perhaps did us good. Really. You know. Everybody was treated the same. So, it was, it was good.
JM: Do you remember being surprised when Mr Churchill was voted out of office in 1945?
JW: I don’t remember much about that. I don’t. I don’t. I can’t remember. I can’t remember that I don’t think. Probably at the time I’d have thought about it but it wouldn’t be in my mind really.
JM: Yes.
JW: I’d be probably too young to be thinking about politics then. So –
JM: Let’s stop there for a minute shall we?
[recording paused]
JW: Windows out. Yeah.
JM: Joan I believe you witnessed an air crash at Waddington. I wonder if you could tell us about that.
JW: It was just below Waddington. On the hill. And my sister lived in cottages which was at the brickyard at Brant Road. And this bomber came back with its bombs on. Which sometimes they used to get rid of before they came back to Lincoln. But this one couldn’t get over the hill I suppose and it hit the hill and it blew all the windows out of my sister’s house. And so she couldn’t go back to live there until they got the windows in again.
JM: Did she —
JW: But nearly — sorry
JM: Did you find out what happened to the crew?
JW: No. No. Didn’t. No. I mean at the time I might have done but I can’t remember. I mean things are fast aren’t they? You know.
JM: Where did your sister go to live?
JW: Well it didn’t actually affect her living. It was just that she stayed with us. My mother. With us.
JM: Yeah.
JW: I know we were a three in a bed kind of arrangement until they got the windows in. Because if it was raining and things there was nothing to stop the rain coming in.
JM: Whose responsibility was it to put the windows in?
JW: I don’t really know. Unless it was the brickyard company. Because it was where the bricks were being made with these kilns.
JM: I wondered if it might have been the local authority.
JW: I would have thought it was the London Brick Company. I would have thought.
JM: Right. Right.
JW: Because they were the people who rented the cottages so I would imagine.
JM: When the aircraft blew up it must have made a huge noise and it must have frightened people.
JW: Oh yes. Oh and my sister was. Really frightened. And she’d got a boy of about oh three I think. And he was terrified. I suppose, really, it did affect the really young ones. What was going on. And I mean it was just down the road to where Glad was wasn’t it? No more than probably just over the road. Down here. So it must have been a terrific noise.
JM: Yes. Joan did you get the opportunity to travel around Lincolnshire much during the war?
JW: No. No.
JM: So you were always —
JW: Because of the petrol you see. Petrol was rationed and even aircrew got a little bit more but other people didn’t. Yeah. So.
JM: And bus travel and train travel.
JW: Yeah. Bus travel was ok. Yeah. For local. Like going into the city and back and forward.
JM: Yes.
JW: You didn’t go far in those days. No. I mean the furthest I went to after the war was out to Blackpool. But that was after the war. Rationing I think was fair but you didn’t get very much. There wasn’t, I mean an ounce of butter was nothing really wasn’t very much. You got one egg. Jam was rationed. Everything was rationed. So — but the Americans sent a lot of food over.
JM: They did.
JW: You know. So that was a big help.
JM: Now you said you were fourteen when the war started. So you would have been at school at that stage. What age did you —
JW: Yeah. Well at fourteen I left school. You did in those days. It was after I left school that you started work at sixteen. But I mean I went to work at fourteen.
JM: And did you deal with the war at all at school?
JW: No. No. No. We didn’t, Nothing. You know, you just went home on the bus. You went in in the morning on the bus. As I say Lincoln didn’t really get affected too badly really. So —
JM: Even though it was such a main centre for the Royal Air Force.
JW: Yes. And when you think, when you think, I don’t know if I’m right I did hear once there were forty ‘dromes in Lincolnshire. I don’t know if you know that. I don’t know.
JM: I have heard that figure mentioned. Many of them were built during the war weren’t they?
JW: I don’t know but I know I’ve heard that there were forty dromes and that’s why, although it didn’t get a lot of bombs on it. They said that’s why it got bombed but they didn’t get a lot of bombs on it.
JM: You didn’t see the aerodromes being built at all?
JW: Didn’t see what?
JM: The aerodromes being built at all.
JW: Oh no. No. As a matter of fact we used to go to Waddington for Open Day before the war and you know the buses and everything used to run up there. Up to Bracebridge Heath and there used to be an Open Day there for —
JM: So they had a funfair and things like of that sort.
JW: Oh yes. Yeah —
JM: And did they put on a flying display.
JW: Yeah. Well I can’t remember now. But I always remember the buses lining up for people to get in. To go home kind of thing. Take them up there. Yeah.
JM: Joan, thank you very much. It’s been, it’s been lovely to talk to you. Thank you for your contributions.
JW: Yeah. Thank you.
JM: Let’s turn it off now.
Dublin Core
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Interview with Joan Watson
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Julian Maslin
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2015-09-04
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AWatsonJ150904
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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eng
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Civilian
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00:26:20 audio recording
Description
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Joan Watson went to Bracebridge School and then worked at Ruddock’s of Lincoln as a printer. Joan discusses evacuees, the bombing war, home font (local men doing fire watching at work), and social life in wartime: dancing, cinema and gatherings. Talks about prisoner of war working as farmhands. Reminisces multinational allied forces in Lincoln, an air crash and war damage. After the war she married and went to live in Cornwall, at St Eval.
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Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Lincoln
England--Cornwall (County)
England--St. Eval
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Pending revision of OH transcription
bombing
crash
entertainment
evacuation
firefighting
home front
prisoner of war
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/561/8829/PStonemanWJ1605.1.jpg
889a4d1d0af552221054f861e73b2214
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/561/8829/AStonemanWJ161114.2.mp3
2dfa9efaf8411e162dbfb9dd0d0d01ba
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Stoneman, William James
W J Stoneman
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IBCC Digital Archive
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Stoneman, WJ
Description
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An oral history interview with Squadron Leader William James Stoneman (1923 - 2017, 186627 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a rear gunner with 138 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2016-11-14
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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This interview is being conducted on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Rod Pickles, the interviewee is Bill Stoneman. The interview is taking place at Bill’s home in Newquay, Cornwall on the 14 November 2016. Also present is Pam Roberts who is Bill’s carer. Well good morning, Bill, and thank you for inviting me in, it’s lovely to be here with you.
RP: Pleasure.
RP: The story we want to hear is yours and the voice we want to hear is yours, so I’ve just asked the initial questions and let you carry on.
AS: Yes.
RP: So, can we sort of go back to the time, you’re approaching leaving school and thinking about what to do with your life and what prompted you to join the RAF?
AS: Yes. It was when the war started, 1939, I was 16 years of age so it was like all the other boys, wanting to join the service at the time but being under age, I couldn’t so I had to wait until I was 18. Ah, when I was 18, I went to, I had a girlfriend in St Leonards, I lived in the Cley area at St Leonards. My hobby was music, I played in quite a famous silver band, St Leonard’s Silver Band, and won trophies, very well known throughout the band world. I also played in dance bands. The girl I was in love with, a girl called Barbara Hale, her father owned a restaurant, believe it or not, in a small village in St Leonards. There was a restaurant with one big room on the first floor, which was used for weddings and things by the local people, and I was engaged by him for a very small amount of money, but when he wanted a band to play at the weddings, I would get five or six musicians and provide the music and, of course, to be near this girlfriend Barbara who, of course we were married in 1947. I then left St Leonards to go to Bristol, because they moved to Bristol. He was given a job, he was asked to take over, he had a catering background, my wife’s father, and he was asked to take over, umm the catering at a large place in Bristol, which was used for trainees in the engineering and electrical engineering world. They always had a big restaurant there he took on the job, and I went with the family and lived with them. I then went to the local government training school to become an instrument repairer or instrument maker. Whilst I was there, I saw chaps in uniform, especially round the Bicester area and there was a lot of flying going on, especially with Bristol Aircraft who made the Beaufighter and the Beaufort and that. So, I went along to the recruiting centre and joined the RAF with the idea of being an instrument maker. However, ahh there was a hold up on training, I was posted to Elsham Wolds, which was in Lincolnshire near Barnaby/Scunthorpe, that area, with a very famous squadron, No. 103 Squadron and I was just a gofer, just helping out at the armaments section waiting to come, which I thought I’d become an instrument repairer. However, then I started flying with them because they wanted air testing, to do with, they were testing the aircraft for its airworthiness and I was pinching every few minutes I could to be in the air, and I said to my Warrant Officer, I remember the chap very, very, very well, always with a bicycle this man, pair of bicycle clips cycling round the field after his men, I said ‘how do I become aircrew?’ ‘Well,’ he said ‘that’s simple, you know, go along to the station headquarters, fill in a form’, which I did and oh, it was days, they were obviously short of aircrew at the time and I ended up at the Aircrew Reception Centre at Cardington in Bedfordshire. Had interviews, medicals and so forth and um arithmetic test, English test, that sort of thing, general knowledge and when I came out the chap, there was an old, he must have been about 50/60 years of age which was very old to me at that time in, he’d obviously been in the First World War because he had First World War medals on his chest, and he said ‘you’ve passed as a PNB’. I had no idea what he was talking about so I said, ‘but I don’t understand’, so he said ‘pilot, navigator or bomb aimer’. That’s what PNB — so I said ‘grand, lovely job, when can I go?’ He said ‘oh it’s a few months, could be five or six months’ and I said ‘I want to go now’. He said ‘the only way to go now is to become a rear gunner or a gunner’. I said ‘that’s for me’, and believe it or not ahh Rod, that was the best choice I think I ever made in my life because how, the courage of pilots, navigators, wireless operators, engineers ahh, who couldn’t do anything about an attack, to sit there in an aircraft relying on a chap with four Brownings in the back and a chap in mid upper with four Brownings, I just don’t think I’d have had the nerve to do it. After, so I was sent for air gunnery training, which was at Bishopscourt, Northern Ireland. I can’t tell you, I can’t remember the number of the course, but very early on in the course, they were short of motor transport there, I don’t think we had a dentist very early on. It was building up, yes that sort of thing. There were a few, some WRAF were posted in, they were WAAF at the time, W - double A - F, and there was no transport to get them so we walked, we marched four miles from there to the nearest railway station to carry the WAAFs’ kit bags to their quarters that had been built for them. Of course, we all were tickled pink, young men of 18/19 years of age, we all made dates on the way of course, this was fun. The aircraft they had there were Ansons, so you climbed onto an Anson with a pilot there who’d probably done a tour of operation, I don’t know, I didn’t know too much about the RAF at that time, but the undercarriage had to be wound up by hand, it was not automatic. I think it was five revolutions to an inch or something like that. I know, but he would get you doing this so you sat there winding and towards the end, he would say ‘oh for goodness sake, give it here’, knowing damn well you were on the last four revolutions you see. And that was the undercart up and we flew over the Irish Sea and we met a Manchester aircraft. Manchesters came from the Isle of Man, I’ve forgotten the name of the airfield now, it was on the Isle of Man, it will come to me in a moment, probably after you’ve gone [laughter] but the Manchester would come out towing a drogue, which is a bit of rope with this long bit of ahh, drogue on the back which we were to fire at. I never shot down an aircraft as far as I know, but we were out one day and there was a Manchester in the water with a drogue and we stood by, it was quite thrilling actually to fly around, and they launched an air sea rescue launch from RAF Jurby, or wherever they were stationed in the Isle of Man and picked the crew up, which was, it was quite an exciting thing to see actually. Anyway, finished the course at Northern Ireland at Ardglass and I was posted to Turweston.
RP: Oh yes.
AS: Which was an operational training unit which came under the Silverstone, which is now a famous race track. It was a satellite of Silverstone. I must tell you while I was on the air gunnery training, I met a chap and we were crewed together as air gunners, a chap called Bob Wilmot, and he was from Hinckley in Leicestershire and he had been in the Air Force quite a time so he had switched from ground crew, I can’t remember what trade he was, but he was, he came from Iceland, from Reykjavik where he was stationed to er, for training. So Bob and I paired off and we went through air gunnery training together, when we got to Turweston, we were collared a billet and we were going to a hangar where we were going to be crewed up. This is where we meet the pilot which we, we were all green, we hadn’t a clue what was going on, but as we wandered towards the hangar, the hangar doors were open and two Canadian officers ran out, a pilot and a navigator, that was Sid Godfrey, pilot and the navigator was called Don Lenny, a Flying Officer, both Canadians, and grabbed us, ‘fly with us’. It appears, we didn’t realise that British air gunners were rather prized, I probably shouldn’t say this but we were. It seems that the name had got around that if you could get yourself a British tail gunner, you had a good chance of surviving [laughter], which was nice to hear.
RP: Nice to hear yes.
AS: Nice to hear. However, from there we went to the um operational training unit, flying on Wellingtons.
RP: So, this is still part of your gunnery training?
AS: Still part of the gunnery training, all part of the, except you’d fly as far as Belfast and pretend that Belfast was the target, you know, and err other places, training all the time of course. It was good training for the pilot and the navigator and everybody in the crew. Ah, so that was that bit of training, I’m trying to think —
RP: So where, from the operational training unit did you have any further training?
AS: Yeah, then we went to the conversion unit, ah which was up in Yorkshire.
RP: They sent you to a few places then?
AS: Dishforth.
RP: Dishforth yes,
AS: Dishforth, No 1664 Conversion Unit.
RP: So, what were you converting to there then?
AS: That was from Wellingtons on to Halifaxes.
RP: So, you were nearly at the end of your training?
AS: That’s right, yes, towards the end of the training then. From Wellingtons on to Halifaxes at Dishforth and er, which was a satellite of Topcliffe, and err that was very interesting because that was going from Wellingtons, which was a Frazer Nash Turret, rear turret where like you fired your guns, it was like handlebars. Frazer Nash was like driving a motorbike but the Boulton Paul was a single thumb on the —
RP: On the button.
AS: On the button, you know the turret moved with the control column, you know left, right, up, you know down.
RP: Which did you prefer?
AS: Hmm?
RP: Which did you prefer, the Boulton Paul or the Frazer?
AS: Well listen, I think, I felt very happy with the Frazer Nash because I’d got so used to it, but once I’d got used to the Boulton Paul I was, you know. I had a feeling that the Boulton Paul turret was slightly smaller and seemed to be more cramped than the Frazer Nash though someone might correct me. Uhm, so that was at Dishforth and I must tell you a story. We were coming back and the pilot who I trained with, ah, I’ll get to the story later but I never flew with him on operations because on his first flight, all pilots when they were posted to an operational station which was 138 Squadron at Tempsford in Bedfordshire, had to do a second dicky flight, because we weren’t dropping bombs, we were dropping agents and supplies and it was a tricky old business, because he had to drop on three torches and so he had, it was low level flying, coming in at low level and dropping the supplies at about 800ft, and I think if it was a live body to be an agent, it was dropped from 1000ft. But that was what he went on, and he went on the very first flight and they got shot down by a, we found out later it was a Night Fighter that got him. He was the second dicky, he wasn’t flying the aircraft he was there for an experience flight. So him, I understand, I may be wrong but it was only him and the mid upper gunner survived that crash so he was a lucky man. But we didn’t so we were a headless crew, we were. A navigator, a bomb aimer, a wireless operator, gunners with no pilot, so I was asked by the Station Commander would I like to go back on to training again and be re-crewed and would I stay at Tempsford as a spare gunner, that’s a ‘spag’ SPAG ([laughter] because, in case another gunner got toothache or was wounded err, which was fair. So I stayed on the squadron and did 32 operations, I’ve got the logbook to show you Rod, which includes Germany, France, Belgium and um Holland, Norway.
RP: These are all special ops?
AS: They’re all special ops, dropping to the agents much needed supplies, ammunitions, cameras, food, explosives, whatever they need to carry out their dangerous work.
RP: So, so what was, Norway, ah —
AS: Norway you see was an occupied country and was very, that was dangerous flying because as you know, it is a very mountainous country and to drop supplies, you can’t drop from 20,000ft, I mean you have to go down lower to drop them and you dropped on torches, torchlight or, even bonfires if it was safe, if they were far enough away and they knew the Germans weren’t near, they would light bonfires to guide us in.
RP: So every operation you were on you were more or less liaising with a resistance group in that country.
AS: Always a resistance group yes, and all been organised previously by the British Broadcasting Company, you know with clandestine —
RP: Cryptic messages.
AS: Cryptic messages, music, different tunes being played ah, quite fascinating really. We’d, in fact I was ignorant of a lot of things that were so clever, the British at this, subterfuge, of making sure that the people on the ground got the required stuff to do their damage.
RP: Were you ever attacked on any of these missions?
AS: No, very, very lucky. Saw aircraft looking for us but because we flew so low, I’d see JU88 which was famous fighter, twin engined German fighter, going the other way, searching for us. They obviously had us on radar or something but missing us. That was quite frightening [laughter], you sat there with bated breath for 30 hours because you’d seen one and you’d think are they coming back? But we obviously, we were very, very, very lucky people.
RP: So on a normal trip, say to France it’s, you don’t always fly on through, you sometimes, you return to Tempsford but obviously you had one incident where flew on to North Africa.
AS: Yes, that was it.
RP: Was that a deliberate fly through there?
AS: If it was a long flight, for instance in the South of France, it was for conservation of fuel and so forth, it was better and safer to fly on to North Africa to a place called Blida, RAF Blida and stay the night, refuel the aircraft and then also add ahh, pre-arranged for guns replace, canisters replace for us to do a drop on the way back. It was very, very well thought out, and also we had pigeons, that seems funny—
RP: I’ve heard about those.
AS: Yes. And when I’ve taught, I’ve taken Pam to the schools, I’ve given talks in schools and the children are always interested when I talk about the pigeons.
RP: Yes, a lot of people don’t believe it but I know about them yeah.
AS: Yes, pigeons were in a little cardboard, pressed cardboard container with a parachute, that’s a miniature parachute and in the container would be a bottle of water and a packet of seed and also a pencil, a special pencil and paper with a questionnaire which was all events of war, and the commanding officer’s name, all sorts of things, motor transport nearby, airfields, what sort of airfields, you know and these pigeons they had to fill in this bit of paper, the children all burst mad on what we’d found in occupied country, put the paper back in the pigeon’s canister on his leg and release it and back it would fly to Tempsford with some very, very interesting information, you know ahh. I don’t know if it’s true but I understand that the first information that Rommel was dead came back by pigeon. That was the rumour going around at the time.
RP: Yes, sometimes they carried them on aircraft to release if you did ditch, didn’t they?
AS: Oh yes, we had that as well yes. A cage inside the aircraft in case of a ditching. I think we were the only aircraft that did have pigeons on board for that. Yeah.
RP: Because if you had time to put your reference you could be rescued.
AS: That’s right, the navigator would put yeah — Now apart from the wireless operator giving away the position of the crash, they’d also have the pigeons with the, as you say, with the reference of the area where the aircraft was going to go down.
RP: So, tell us about this incident when you did go down, it must have been —
AS: Let’s see, we went to ah North Africa with the idea, we did a successful drop on the way out and stayed the night at North Africa, RAF Blida, with the idea of going back, I can’t remember the target area but we were going back to the South of France near there and drop our supplies and agent, no agent, just supplies this time. However, when we took off, it was getting dark, very nearly dark and all we know was a bang. We were flying along, I didn’t see it but later on I was told like, l can tell you the full story that a JU88 had been seen in the area and they flew, they had a gun which could fire upwards through the top Jaegermeister or something it was called.
RP: It come underneath you.
AS: Schräge yeah. And this is obviously what happened because we were flying along at dusk and then there was a bang so that was all, and nearby lucky for us there was a hospital ship, an Italian hospital ship with an Italian crew, I understand the Italian Captain called Principessa Giovanni and this, having wounded on board there was a British sergeant medical sergeant. There was no smoking on board and he was, I understand, he was, the story came out he was behind the lifeboat on the deck having a crafty fag [laughter] and he actually saw the incident.
RP: Oh right.
AS: So —
RP: He knew there’s been a crash.
AS: He saw, he saw us go down. He saw the flame, and he saw flames and it was still light enough to see what happened, and he had the courage to go to a senior officer ‘an aircraft had just been shot down’ he said because he’d seen the incident.
RP: So, they knew you’d crashed, but obviously, when you were ditching you weren’t aware you’d been spotted, so what was it like when you hit the sea?
AS: That’s right, so we hit the water not knowing that anyone — that, that’s it. The navigator was in the aircraft with us and we were, you sit at crash position, the pilot said you know ‘get in ditching positions’. There was a main spar runs through the aircraft which with the wings, strengthen the wings and you brace yourself against that. The pilot stays at the control and the flight, and the flight engineer assisting him the rest, cos he’s watching the engines and everything like that in case he requires help. The pilot was a chap called Highwalker, Flight Lieutenant Canadian, already had a Distinguished Flying Cross and he got the Distinguished Service Order for this err, probably got the result for his flying before and this crash because how he controlled that—
RP: Once you put it down and not break up.
AS: Fantastic, it was like a sycamore leaf, it was completely out of control it had been hit, you know, badly damaged.
RP: But normally you would expect it to break up.
AS: At the very last moment it flew, super [unclear] but you’re given, they say you’re given extra strength at certain times.
RP: Yes.
AS: Anyway, he landed but obviously he’d couldn’t land gently, it smashed the front of the aircraft in and water rushed, the salt, the sea came straight away, and the navigator was obviously washed towards my rear turret where I’d climbed out of, and was back in the same position. But it was all, a huge inrush of water. And so I got out, I was lucky, I got out, there was no dinghy, it should come out by an immersion switch but it didn’t, you know the water should get it out, but it didn’t come out. But the bomb aimer, a Canadian Officer, held my, I still had my parachute harness on, and held me. I went back towards the aircraft, I could see the D, it’s illuminated, it’s got a handle just a normal handle to, and a D on it. I could see it so I reached it and I turned it and it was so still by that time, luckily the Mediterranean was not rough at that moment. I could hear the hiss for while I was carrying it over the aircraft, I got a hiss of a dinghy being inflated automatically, and it came out, I had got a frangible chord which holds it and you can cut it when you get in. Unfortunately, in the crash, the frangible chord must have broken, must have snapped because the dinghy was on its way. [laughter]. Luckily being ahh, a Cornish boy and always in the sea swimming, I was a strong swimmer, though fully dressed with flying boots it was quite easy for me to swim and get the dinghy and get it back to the aircraft. Loaded people on it, the pilot had hurt his hands and so forth, you know. We all got on it quite safely, all but the navigator. If I remember correctly, the engineer damaged his hands as well but er, and then we looked towards the aircraft, we were then I suppose say 40 feet away about that from the aircraft I think the dinghy drifted away. All that was left was two fin and rudders from the Halifax together with water and my turret, and two shouts of ‘help’ came but there was nothing we could do then and then he gurgled under the water with the navigator in the turret.
RP: So he must have been knocked unconscious and just come round.
AS: Yes I think he’d just come round because he did shout ‘help’. And his son has been here to see us, he’s been here to see me and um, I’ll tell you the story about it. Anyway, that was the crash, ah, fortunately the ship, the Principessa, the hospital ship, the sergeant had witnessed this, British sergeant
RP: So they were already on their way to you.
AS: Otherwise we’d never have, I don’t think, ‘cos the wireless operator whether his message was received we will never know, no. I never saw the Court of Enquiry or formal investigation into the crash, uh but there must have been one of course. However, we were picked up by this ship, given a slug of whisky and looked after and err, the engineer hadn’t come round, he was still, not unconscious, but he’d been very, he’d been knocked about and when he came to, on the ship there were black troops on board, they’d been fighting, I can’t remember the name of them now, it’s amazing, like our Ghurkhas anyway, they were fighting for the Americans and the French. They were French troops anyway and when he came to there were these men dressed in white swats with black faces standing around the engineer and he thought he’d died and gone to hell [laughter]. He did, he told us afterwards. That’s it then.
RP: Someone came in to reassure him then?
AS: Yeah, well we all came in yeah.
RP: So where did the ship dock, where did they take you?
AS: They took us to err, out to Oran and at Oran there’s the American hospital Number 6 General, it was called Number 6 the American General Hospital and they um, we was in sodden clothes, my uniform was green, I suppose some dye had come out of the aircraft somewhere from some stuff we were carrying. However, they gave us a dressing, pair of pyjamas, pair of slippers and a nice velvet dressing gown which we wore all the time we were there and err, that’s where we did our recovery and on the bottom of my bed, I felt OK, but the doctor wrote ’shock and exhaustion’ so I must have been you know worse than I thought I was.
RP: So how did they get you back to the UK then?
AS: Well that was it so there we were in the hospital in Oran and they err, we would be trying to get back again and a Liberator, an RAF Liberator was up in North Africa, must be at Blida or somewhere, came to Oran and picked us up and took us back to the UK and we landed um, in Kent. I’m trying to think of the airfield.
RP: Manston?
AS: Hmm?
RP: Manston?
AS: Yeah, that’s it yeah. And err, there, we made our way back you know, we were given warrants we went back to the station as though you know, that was it.
RP: It was back to work, no leave.
AS: I’d been given a spot of leave and that’s it. ‘Well done mate’, shook your hand — [laughter]
RP: And you were back flying then were you?
AS: That’s is yeah. That was my thirteenth operation.
RP: So you still had another?
AS: I did another —
RP: Nineteen.
AS: I completed thirty-two
RP: So you still had another, almost the same to go.
AS: Exactly, yeah, yeah.
RP: No more incidents after that? I mean that’s enough for anybody.
AS: Not of that nature no, no, nothing like that.
RP: That is enough for anybody though really.
AS: Oh yeah. No, I had a very trouble-free tour, very lucky I had a very trouble-free tour really.
RP: So where was your last op then? The last op you did, can you remember the last one?
AS: I’ve got the log but I can’t remember where it would be, it might have, I’ve got it in my log with me to show you.
RP: OK Bill, you were going to tell us about, you went back to base after the crash and you were straight back to flying, but it’s a different aircraft though, isn’t it?
AS: Yeah, they changed the aircraft to the Stirling. Now the Stirling had a, was not really suitable to Bomber Command’s high altitude flying, but the ones we had had been reconditioned and we went over to Northern Ireland to pick them up. As crews we all flew over there, went with the crew and flew them back from Belfast to the UK to Tempsford. I found the Stirling an excellent aircraft as a rear gunner, brilliant rear turret Frazer Nash rear turret, four Bristol engines which gave you great confidence. You could see flames, you sat in the rear turret you saw a little bit of flames, but two engines each side. But for, I had great confidence in the Stirling. I thought they were very well suited to the work that Tempsford did, dropping agents’ supplies. Plenty of room in them, ah they had a nickname in the Air Force, called the Flying Solenoid for some reason, had a lot of electrics in them.
RP: Oh right.
AS: That’s why but ah, I thought completely reliable and it’s amazing, in all the time I flew, a lot, never had an engine failure with them. What you’d normally get, come back with a wing and a prayer as they say.
RP: [unclear]
AS: No, no a very solidly built —
RP: So when you’re dropping supplies, are you dropping them out of the bomb bay?
AS: Yeah, no, the —
RP: Or are they going out of the door?
AS: They cut a hole in the floor of the aircraft, we called it a Joe Hole because the agents we dropped off were nicknamed Joes.
RP: They went through the same hole?
AS: The same hole. It was quite a big hole, two flaps, the mid upper gunner had been to Ringway and done a course and become an expert dispatcher going into … to dress people in harnesses for their, with their Mae West and their parachutes, and the mid upper gunner became a dispatcher and he would open up the Joe Hole, throw back the two things, the lights of course would give, the pilot would show where the agents would drop over the dropping zone and err, they would sit on the edge of the Joe Hole and as the, the tap on the shoulder and so they would jump. And as a rear gunner, you would sit in the back and the slipstream takes the body, the jumper and he seems to level out and if it was you Rod, jumping I’d recognise you for a split second with a terrified look on your face [laughter], you know what I mean, and he’d lay on his back it seemed to be, for a split second, I’d know the person who had jumped from the rear turret , yeah. And you’d see the bag, you know because you were—
RP: Did you circle round?
AS: We’d be circling round, you’d see them going in.
RP: But you’ve obviously done the important thing of dropping them in occupied territory. Was there ever a follow up, did you find out what happened to any of them?
AS: No. I wish we could have done because it is so, it had been ages as well. They were brought out to the aircraft at the very last moment ahh, they had a farm on the um, it was called Gibraltar Farm, it’s still there at Tempsford, I’ve taken Pam to it, you can go and visit it. There’s photographs there, there’s names, there’s a plaque about the work.
RP: So there’s a Veterans’ Association for Tempsford isn’t there?
AS: That’s right, yeah and err, it’s quite an interesting place to go to. And they’d be dressed at Gibraltar Farm and then they’d be put into a closed vehicle so the crew wouldn’t see them till the very last moment your doors would open of course, they would climb in, sit down. Not a nice comfy chair for them, just a canvas seat.
RP: I’m assuming the crew were briefed at the last moment as to their target then?
AS: Oh yeah, we knew the target, we did the target in the afternoon.
RP: Oh right.
AS: We knew exactly where they were going. We knew um —
RP: By that time of course you were restricted to base I assume.
AS: Exactly, we couldn’t go out, no phone calls off the base or anything, restricted. You had your, you’d go and have your bacon and egg you know, your meal sort of thing, draw your rations and err, yeah. Get a flask of coffee.
RP: Yes. So, Stirlings up until the war ended you were on the Stirling, until your last op?
AS: Yeah.
RP: So the war ends —
AS: It’s funny because people didn’t associate Stirlings with —
RP: I must admit I thought it was Halifaxes and Lancasters.
AS: Yeah, no and then the Stirling was, that was —
RP: But when you’d done your last op, can you remember the day the war ended, where you were? Were you at Tempsford?
AS: Yeah, I, no I was on a codes and cipher course when the war, we’d all been, when you’d done a tour you retreaded, you know they’d give you a job. I was given admin and accounts I was trained, I was given, but that codes and cipher is included so I was sent to Yatesbury
RP: Oh yes.
AS: For the codes and cipher course. That was eight weeks, eleven weeks though I remember.
RP: And of course, very modestly, haven’t told us that during this time you were now a commissioned officer.
AS: Right.
RP: So what rank were you when the war ended?
AS: Ahh, a Flight Lieutenant. Yes
RP: So you were a Flight Lieutenant at the end of the war.
AS: Yes, I was a Flight Lieutenant um, training as a gunnery leader at that time, you know. At Turweston I was a Flight Lieutenant. I was a senior air gunner on the station training chaps which was err —
RP: So if the war ends, are you given the option to leave or stay?
AS: Yes I stayed on, you know. I’m glad I did because I love the service and I ended up with the rank of Squadron Leader, should have gone higher but [laughter].
RP: They didn’t recognise brilliance when they saw it though, that’s what it was. So, so obviously the war ended and you’re staying in an admin job now then?
AS: That’s right, admin and accounts, yeah.
RP: Yeah ok.
AS: And I was, err, where was my first posting, I’ve forgotten? Anyway, I went to Cyprus, Singapore, Germany. Oh, my first trip was immediately after the war in Germany, Belgium first on this Missing Research and Enquiry Unit. Number twenty — This is where we’re looking for crashed aircraft and bodies, because parents still believed that their boy was walking round lost somewhere.
RP: Yes.
AS: The finale was, you know they formed this Missing Research and Enquiry Unit. I was at the one in Belgium and we cleared up Belgium and Holland. That was going around to the cemeteries and making and, not exhuming graves but making sure that people were in there and we found lots of crashed aircraft, in fact what we would do, we would go to a, there were twenty-three, I think there were twenty-three chaps in Belgium, Holland and Germany. I had a Land Rover, no I didn’t I had a Jeep.
RP: Slight difference I know [laughter]
AS: I had a Jeep and err, a pipe to keep my nose warm [laughter] and that was, and err a Wing Commander, commanding officer, Canadian who been an evader himself and err, we just went to a Town Hall, put a notice up, we had an interpreter given to us by the way
RP: Yes.
AS: And the idea was, that we were coming to that town, could anyone come forward with any news of any crashed aircraft or aircrew? It was amazing the people you found.
RP: You’d get a good response from them.
AS: Yeah. It was amazing.
RP: And this was to verify, so you could then verify to the parents that you’d located their son.
AS: That’s right. One of my friends err, we were together, we were working together, and he had a pastor came, he put his notice up and a pastor said ‘A nun, a nun [unclear], a nun came he said. Behind the nunnery there’s an RAF chap because he was shot and put into the ground so they followed that. She, they took my friend by the Austin to the spot, he got some grave diggers, they exhumed the body, it was just under the ground and it was a Flight Lieutenant and he had a hole in the middle of his forehead.
RP: They’d just shot him, out of hand.
AS: And I didn’t understand, I wasn’t privy to all the facts but the British Army took that case over and they got the killer.
RP: Oh good.
AS: They, through finding out through, in the pubs and that, who the people who were stationed, Germans in that area, at that time and they got the culprit, so I understand.
RP: That must have been a very err, sort of depressing job,
AS: Oh yeah.
RP: But you must have felt satisfied at the end.
AS: Exactly, oh yeah.
RP: The satisfaction of actually finding people.
AS: Pam loves this story. This Wing Commander aha, a Canadian had a —
RP: Please tell us.
AS: Churchill accent. You know a Canadian and a Churchill [unclear].
RP: Slight lisp, yeah.
AS: I took the me I think. We were stationed at a place called Schloss Schonberg and this castle we were stationed in had lovely steps, and we were billeted there, a whole gang of us. And I’d been out for a whole week living off a, being in cemeteries, finding bodies, listing work, at night you might get a room you know, tucked away in a hotel, pub general pub somewhere. So I came back, obviously, a bit smelly and there they were, my friends having a drink at the bar, lovely little bar we had and the steps going up. So I was taking the mickey out of the commanding officer, I said ‘I think it’s disgusting, young officers drinking at this time of the day’ and they were going like this [laughter]. Too late, I was going up the stairs and the Wing Commander, there he was, he wasn’t a Jack McLean, he got off his chair put his newspaper down so I went to, I had to go to his bedroom. Still as that, he sat on his bed and gave me the biggest bollocking I’ve ever had. Lovely, he could really give one, he ended up as a Minister in the Government.
RP: He didn’t see the funny side of it.
AS: No, no but he but, but it’s funny, when he left the err, when he left Germany to go back to Canada, as his tour expired, the Adjutant a Welsh feller came to me ‘the CO wants to see you’. I said ‘Christ I’ve done nothing wrong, I’ve been good as gold’. And he, charming, went in, he said ‘Bill cheerio, why don’t you come to Canada, you’re just the sort of chap we could do with‘. So all of that was forgotten, it was all about play you know it was—
RP: So having done that, at what point did they decide to the wind the operation up, about finding crashed aircraft, how long did they–
AS: Probably when they found, when they must have found them all I suppose
RP: And so you came back—
AS: As near as dammit. Couldn’t do any more, the graves were all, I can’t remember the timing.
RP: But you came back, you came back to the UK then?
AS: That’s right, yeah.
RP: Where were you then? What did you do then?
AS: I’m trying to think. No — That’s when I was in codes and cipher I think, yeah.
RP: So—
AS: I came back, I was sent to Compton Bassett.
RP: Ahh, Compton Bassett.
AS: Yeah, Compton Bassett. On a code and cipher course, and err, which you’re mad after six years so I did nine so — [laughter] But funnily enough I quite enjoyed it you know, it was an interesting job. So I did codes and ciphers in Singapore and Gibraltar and it was quite interesting, you get to meet, you throw stones at the CO’s window at 3 o’clock in the morning, always gives you a glass of whisky [laughter].
RP: So how long were you in the RAF then, how long did you stay?
As: Thirty-seven years.
RP: So that’s a long time.
AS: That’s a long time yeah.
RP: You stayed on,
AS: I stayed on, yeah, yeah.
RP: And that was sort of on the admin branch.
AS: Yes, I think I finished at St Mawgan as OC Station Services, you know works and bricks working with DoE sort of thing.
RP: Yeah, but err, out of those thirty-seven, I’m guessing the first three or four were the most interesting.
AS: Yeah, right.
RP: That’s that. You were going to err -
AS: I was going to tell you the story about York
RP: About York. Tell us the story about York Minster then, coming back in the snow.
AS: Oh yeah, yes.
RP: You were going to tell us the story.
AS: Yeah, that’s all, and this pilot he came back, he came back to see me in Cornwall which I was quite thrilled, when you think that err, what he’d been through as a prisoner of war and err, we were walking out in the sunshine at the time, reminiscing and he remembered his old Cornish air gunner. I said he was a Freemason and talking all over Canada, he said I told the story, your ears should have been burning you know.
RP: Tell us the story about the church, the York Minster.
AS: Ah yes.
RP: You were coming back from a training flight I think was it, coming back from a training flight to York Minster when he was telling you about going to church?
AS: That’s the one.
RP: That’s the one, yes.
AS: Just flying in the area of, and we were coming back from the North Sea, and err, very low unfortunately because it started to snow, just climbing over the, coming over York and that, and the wireless operator could actually see people in the cinema queue but as we went over York Minster, which we didn’t realise we were so low, I said ‘guys’ I said, ‘I haven’t been to church in bloody years’, but we could see err yeah.
RP: Well I think that that, the thing about your crews at Tempsford, I think there was obviously great camaraderie with all the various people there.
AS: Pam likes me to tell the story when, because when you’re in the rear turret you can, in a Frazer Nash, you’d like a motorbike, when the Boulton Paul I’d put a flask of tea, I took a flask with me and it would just fit, there’s a little ledge on the right hand side of the Boulton Paul turret which just takes a flask just nicely so it won’t roll, but unfortunately, we err, I’ve forgotten which country we were over, I think Belgium, I saw a Night Fighter so I threw my guns to the left and I saw him disappear. I went to try to find out where he was, I had my turret and guns going everywhere, I didn’t hear any fire but all of a sudden, I had the most red hot feeling in my stomach. It took me ages to have the courage, I thought, well they tell me you don’t feel when you’ve been hit, it’s just, just get a wound and you know that was it. Hot. So I put my hand and what had happened, my gun, the solenoid underneath the gun had picked the flask up, pierced it and it dropped in my lap.
RP: So it was actually hot tea.
AS: Hot coffee.
RP: Oh hot coffee.
AS: Yeah.
RP: Oh dear, so that was a relief in one way then. That was definitely a relief.
RP: What you haven’t told us but you’ve been very modest about your medals. What medals have you got then, what were you awarded after the Halifax?
AS: Ah, I’ve got the Distinguished Flying Medal which was awarded in um err, July 1944 which was the result of the ditching in the —
RP: That’s a lovely medal, isn’t it?
AS: Yes it is, which I’m very, very proud of.
RP: Quite right and I think we needed to mention that, but I think the hot coffee story is a good point to bring our interview to an end I think. Thank you for telling us all those lovely stories.
AS: Ah well.
RP: It’s been a privilege and pleasure. Thank you very much, thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with William James Stoneman
Creator
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Rod Pickles
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-11-14
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AStonemanWJ161114
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Format
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00:48:17 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
William James Stoneman was posted to RAF Elsham Wolds before Aircrew Reception Centre at RAF Cardington. He chose to become a rear gunner as he did not have to wait. Air gunnery training followed at RAF Bishopscourt in Northern Ireland on Ansons and Magister aircraft. He was posted to RAF Weston and the Operational Training Unit (OTU). Bill describes crewing up and flying Wellingtons at the OTU. He then went to the Conversion Unit at RAF Dishforth and flew Halifaxes. Bob compares the Frazer Nash turret with the Boulton Paul rear gun turrets.
Bill joined 138 Squadron at RAF Tempsford. He carried out 32 operations in Belgium, France, Germany, Holland and Norway. Flying low, they dropped agents and supplies. He describes the clandestine liaison with resistance groups. On long flights to southern France, they would refuel at RAF Blida in North Africa. He also discusses carrying pigeons for intelligence gathering. Bill recounts how their aircraft was shot down on one occasion, returning from RAF Blida. On his return, Bill changed to Stirling aircraft which he very much liked. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Medal in July 1944.
Finishing the Second World War as a flight lieutenant, he was sent to RAF Yatesbury working on codes and ciphers. He went to Belgium, Cyprus, Germany and Singapore. He worked at the Missing Research and Enquiry Unit in Belgium and finished at RAF St Mawgan having been served for 37 years.
Temporal Coverage
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1944-07
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Bedfordshire
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Lincolnshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Yorkshire
Northern Ireland--Down (County)
Belgium
Cyprus
France
Germany
Netherlands
North Africa
Norway
Singapore
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
Vivienne Tincombe
138 Squadron
1664 HCU
air gunner
Air Gunnery School
air sea rescue
aircrew
animal
Anson
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Medal
ditching
final resting place
Heavy Conversion Unit
Ju 88
Magister
memorial
military service conditions
RAF Bishops Court
RAF Cardington
RAF Dishforth
RAF Elsham Wolds
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Tempsford
RAF Turweston
RAF Yatesbury
Resistance
Special Operations Executive
Stirling
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/581/8850/AHearmonPC160317.1.mp3
357fd317f299351fbd3b3b83ddd33699
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Hearmon, Peter Charles
P C Hearmon
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Hearmon, PC
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Flight Lieutenant Peter Charles Hearmon (b. 1931, 2507699 Royal Air Force). He served as a pilot with 55, 58 and 61 Squadrons between 1951 - 1971.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-17
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and we’re here in Milton Keynes with Peter Charles Hearmon who was a peacetime pilot and navigator and this is a sequel to the RAF’s activities in the war and we’re going to talk about his life from the earliest days and to joining the RAF and his interesting variations. Peter, where do we start?
PH: Well my father was a London fireman and he was stationed at Euston Road Fire Station so I was born in University College Hospital which was in Gower Street just across the road. My earliest recollections are of a flat because in those days firemen lived on the premises and my earliest recollection is a flat at Clerkenwell Road Fire, not Clerkenwell, yeah Clerkenwell Road Fire Station because my father had moved by then and my grandmother Nanty lived with us. And I can remember as a kid of about six or seven, strictly forbidden to but we used to slide down the poles ‘cause that was the way the firemen got to the, to the ground in those days and they, I don’t know if people realise it, it wasn’t a continuous pole. It just went two floors. Well this, otherwise they would pick up such a speed they’d break their bloody legs when they got to the bottom. No it wasn’t a long pole, it was, you know. Anyway, then we, my father left the fire brigade in about 1938 and we moved to a council flat in Lewis Trust in Amhurst Road, Hackney from which we were bombed. And I was evacuated initially in, I should think, before the Second World War started in about the August. I was one of those kids with a gas mask in a brown box with a label saying who I was and I was evacuated to a place called Toller Porcorum which is in Dorset, a small village but we lasted three days. There were three Cockney lads, seven or eight billeted on some poor old dear well into her nineties and we all, well in those days they, they allocated, they just said to one of the local councillors, ‘You’re the allocation officer,’ and they just went around and knocked on doors and said, ‘How many rooms you got?’ ‘I’ve got three rooms.’ ‘Oh you’ve only got one kid. You can have two evacuees.’ It was as simple as that. We lasted three days and we all ran away back home and I was variously evacuated to Exmouth in Devon. I got an eleven plus and that was, we were, I went to Westminster City School which was billeted with Tonbridge High School in Tonbridge. That was during the Battle of Britain and that was a good thing because all, we were being rained on and bombed on and then I was re-evacuated to Devon and then back to, I think eventually back to London during the V1 V2 campaign because there was nowhere is England that was any different by that time. We’re talking about 1944/45. The Germans were raiding ad lib as it were, you know. Indiscriminately. So London was as bad or as good as anywhere so I went back home and the school came back to London, Westminster City and I left in 1947 with a good clutch of O levels especially in languages. French and Latin. Didn’t do German in those days. And due to a friend of my mother’s I got an apprenticeship with a firm called Princeline in the merchant navy and I did three and a half years but decided it wasn’t for me and I left. Couldn’t get a job really because although I was, I was over nineteen I was still national, liable for National Service by then because having been in the merchant navy, the merchant navy was a reserved occupation but because I’d left so I wrote to them and asked to be called up and I was called up for the army and I went to a place called [Inacton?] I forget what it was. Selection centre. The Korean War was on and I went, I went in front of the naval chap who said I could join the navy. They only took twelve National Servicemen a year and I said no thanks. The army chap was, said to me you can join and with your educational qualifications even as a National Serviceman you’ll probably get a commission but then for some reason, I forget why, the air force chap interjected and said, ‘We’re looking for aircrew,’ and he did some dickering with the army chap and that was how I joined the air force. I was literally sort of called up, you know. Went to Padgate and that was a laugh because the, the instructors were all acting corporal, National Servicemen who’d done a six week course or somewhere or the other and given a couple of stripes and in fact our, our hut commander was an acting corporal who was quite frankly illiterate. I used to, used to get one of my guys to read him from the Beano, to read to him from the Beano. You may laugh but it was the God’s honest truth, you know. Anyway, went to Hornchurch selected for pilot, navigator and I think gunner or gunner something like that. And I then accepted and we were offered at that stage the choice of staying as a National Serviceman or becoming what they call a short term engagement where you got regular pay so I opted for short term engagement. Went to nav school at Hullavington and when we first arrived at Hullavington my course were all suspended pilots with wings which rather upset a lot of the staff pilots because we were all officers and they were only sergeants but eventually we were told to take our wings down so we had to take our wings off. So I then qualified as a navigator. Spent five, six months at St Mawgan because there were no vacancies in the Navigation Training Scheme flying Lancasters so I did some Lancaster flying there. And then I went to Lindholme, that’s right, for the air observer’s course on Canberras. Didn’t do any, in those days the pilots and navigators went through Bassingbourn together. The set up or bomb aimer or whatever you like to call them did six weeks at Lindholme and then joined the crew on the squadron which is what I did. That was at Upwood and when I arrived I think we only had about four or five, there was only about four or five aircraft. That was when you had squadron leader COs as well but we slowly but surely got aircraft from Short’s. I think Short’s made some Canberras and I think we ended up with something like eight UE and twelve crews. Sounds about right. I think it’s something like that. We were chased out of Upwood eventually by, no, sorry Wittering, it wasn’t Upwood, it was Wittering. We were at Wittering. We were chased out by the arrival of 148 squadron Valiants and we then went, then went to Upwood which I think by that time we ended up with something like four Canberra squadrons from Scampton or, I think, well it was 61 squadron. 40 squadron. I can’t remember the names of the others. I think there was four ‘cause at one time in the air force I counted there were forty eight Canberra squadrons in the UK, Cyprus and the Far East. I think [I was more or less?] was astounded when I counted. Yeah. I mean, I don’t think there are forty eight squadrons in the air force at all at the minute is there? You see we had Canberras at Upwood, Scampton, Waddington. What’s the one further north? Binbrook. Wyton. All had three or four squadrons. I think I’m talking of the days when there were a squadron leader CO and I was, I was a flight commander as well. I was acting flight commander as a flying officer. [cough] excuse me. Anyway, let me go and get a drink of water. Sorry.
CB: Ok.
PH: Talking.
[Recording paused]
CB: We’re re-starting now to recap slightly and go to the initial training that Peter did and just take us through that.
PH: When I, when I, is it going?
CB: Yeah.
PH: When I was called up in 1951 I went to Padgate where we didn’t do very much at all. I was there for about six weeks. We really got kitted out. That’s where we got our uniforms or up to a point our uniforms. Some of it. Some of it. It was, it was very odd because at times there were groups with wearing their own jacket but air force trousers and air force shirts and air force berets or whatever but anyway after about six weeks at Padgate we went to Hornchurch for aircrew selection which and I was given pilot. I don’t think I was given navigator believe it or not. I think I was given pilot, gunner, engineer. We then went back to Padgate and we awaited and we got, I got posted to Number 3 ITS at Cranwell and that was a six month ab initio course doing square bashing, PT, customs of the service. Mathematics. Physics. We had a lot of National Service teachers in those days of course who had done their, because in those days at eighteen you could either opt to do your National Service straightaway or you could defer it until after you’d been to university. And a lot of these guys had been, had degrees and were just doing their National Service after university so they were in their twenties normally. They only wore hairy battledresses because they weren’t issued even though they were officers they weren’t issued with anything else so that was it. So we did six months at the ITS and I think there was, there was, if I remember there were four ITSs at Cranwell. At Cranwell alone or [as of anywhere?] and there was over a hundred on each. The chop rate was about fifty percent so at the end of the course of the six months there would only be fifty of you left and these, these were pilots, navigators and gunners and then from there you went to your specialist training and I went then to Feltwell and I did my flying training on Prentices, then Harvards. Got my wings, as we said on the time and went to Driffield on, on Meteors. And then from there I went to Chivenor on Vampires which I didn’t get on with and of that course of fourteen because the Korean War ended seven of us were suspended from pilot training.
CB: So when you went doing your training at Driffield. What did you do? It was a two seater Meteor was it?
PH: Two seat. Yeah. The Meteor 7.
CB: And so what was the programme that you had for that?
PH: Well you -
CB: ‘Cause it was the first jet really.
PH: You flew, you flew nearly every day even only for a short time. Say an hour or so if that. A with an instructor and eventually I forget, it will tell you in my logbook you. Eventually went solo and because you went solo that didn’t mean, you still, you still did dual trips for various other things like aerobatics and things like that. And then eventually you did your final trip as a flight commander you were passed out you know as having satisfied. I got a white card at Driffield but then I went to say Chivenor and there were fourteen on my course at Chivenor of which seven were suspended and I was offered the choice. By that time I was a regular of course and I was offered the choice of finishing my National Service, I had about a week or so to do or retraining. By that time I was married. I was married in the previous year so I decided I rather liked the air force so I decided to retrain as a navigator. And so then I went to Hullavington and I had my pilot training. Actually my pilot training stood me in good stead because I finished about second or third on the course you know because a lot of the navigator and pilot training, especially the ground school, they were the same, you know, the meteorology, all that sort of thing was pretty good so I’d already done it. Most of it. But they were, in fact the course I was on at Hullavington were all chop pilots and I think as I mentioned earlier we were, we were forced to take our wings down eventually.
CB: Only temporarily.
PH: Well no we never got them back again because we then had, we then got navigator brevvies and the law of the Royal Air Force was you wear the brevvy of the trade in which you are practicing.
CB: Ok.
PH: Well we, our brevvies were virtually removed permanently. We were told we could no longer wear them. Right. Ok.
CB: Ok. So you did the Hullavington course.
PH: Yes.
CB: And you then got your new brevvy which was –
PH: Correct.
CB: The navigator. So then where did you go?
PH: Went to St Mawgan as the assistant flying adj because there was no vacancies for Canberra training at the time and I was there for six months. Did quite a lot of flying in Lancasters.
[phone ringing]
PH: Which one was that? Or was it –
[Recording paused]
PH: In training.
CB: Right. So –
PH: But because, because I was a navigator and I got on well with the squadron leader flying –
CB: Yeah.
PH: He said, ‘Pete, come and fly with us,’
CB: Yeah.
PH: So off I went. You know.
CB: So we’re talking about using your time at St Mawgan.
PH: Correct.
CB: And you got –
PH: Went to Gibraltar two or three times.
CB: Right. As the navigator on the –
PH: As the nav. Yeah.
CB: On the Lancaster.
PH: On the Lanc. And believe it or not we used to take down in the bomb bay bundles of hay because the AOC there and the brigadier they had a cow because they couldn’t stand Spanish milk. Have you ever tried Spanish milk? Spanish milk is bloody awful.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
PH: Anyway, they had a cow so in the bomb bay of the Lanc which is quite large we used to take bales of hay for the, for the AOC’s cow and bring back things like Christmas trees or potatoes and things like that you know.
CB: Yeah. Any wine?
PH: And wine. Yes. Of course.
CB: Ok. So you had six months of this.
PH: About six months.
CB: Time.
PH: And then I went to Hullavington and did the nav course.
CB: Oh this was before. This, was this after the nav course or before it?
PH: What?
CB: No. This being at St Mawgan was after –
PH: Oh no that was before, that was after getting brevvy, between getting a brevvy.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And actually getting, no it wasn’t the nav course. No. Start again.
CB: Yeah.
PH: I’d already completed my nav course.
CB: Exactly. Yes.
PH: And I had a brevvy.
CB: Yeah.
PH: I went to Hullavington. I went to St Mawgan.
CB: St Mawgan.
PH: On, all of my nav course there was no slots available.
CB: No.
PH: And we all got jobs and went to all sorts of places as, I don’t know –
CB: Just a holding position.
PH: A holding yeah.
CB: Yeah.
PH: A holding post. Some went as MTs. Some went as –
CB: Right.
PH: If you could drive they made you MT officer, you know.
CB: So, so what was the unit that you were supposed to go to after that?
PH: Well it was the flying, it was the, I was, it was the flying wing, just the flying wing.
CB: Ok.
PH: ‘Cause Hullavington at that time was the School of Maritime Reconnaissance.
CB: Right.
PH: MRS. And it was, they used Lancasters prior to, to the chaps training on Shackletons because typical of the air force the MRS was at St Mawgan which is in bloody, you know, Cornwall and the OCU was up in Scotland. So the guys did their course and they had to go all the way up to Scotland to do, to convert to Shackletons. They used, ‘cause of course the Shackletons as you know was a development of the Lancaster.
CB: Sure. Ok so you went back to Hullavington in order to get ready to go on to what aircraft?
PH: No. No. From, from, from St Mawgan I then went to Lindholme.
CB: Right.
PH: Ready to go on to Canberras.
CB: Ok.
PH: And we did the six week bombing course and then I joined 61 squadron direct at Wittering and as I said earlier on the pilot and navigator, plotter he was known as, they called them the plotter in the, in the Canberra and I was the observer. The plotter, they went to Bassingbourn together and the observers joined straight from Lindholme which was the Bomber Command Bombing School. BBBS.
CB: Ok.
PH: So, I didn’t do a conversion as such. Conversion was done on the squadron.
CB: Right. Ok. So, now you’re at Wittering.
PH: Yes.
CB: 61 squadron. So what happened there?
PH: Well we were there for about a year and then they decided to move us to Upwood because of the formation of the first Valiant squadron which was coming to Wittering. 148 squadron. Tubby, Tubby Oakes, something like that was the guy who ran it. It was quite amusing because when we were doing the major exercises, I forget what they were called now, where we used to fly right up to the Iron Curtain and then all turn left as it were. We used to have to take off on the peri tracks because the mock, the invisible Valiants were using the main runway. That’s the honest truth. There were no, we didn’t have any Valiants there but they were, we had to get used to, I mean the peri tracks, if you know Wittering.
CB: I do. Yes.
PH: There was a big runway and there was a big peri track so it was quite funny. I’m trying to think of what they were called. It will be in my logbook somewhere.
CB: Ok. So –
PH: We used to do these operations quite regularly.
CB: So when you were at Wittering you were in Canberras and where are you flying? Are you on your own or do you go out as a formation?
PH: Sorry. Say again.
CB: You’re at Wittering.
PH: Yes.
CB: And you’re now on operations.
PH: Yes.
CB: Effectively. Do you go off as a formation or did you go off as -?
PH: No. No. We’re still using the World War Two tactics. Stream.
CB: Right.
PH: You didn’t, I don’t think I ever done, I can’t ever remember doing formation. Did at Wyton eventually but only as a practice. It was never used operationally.
CB: Right.
PH: The Canberras. The Canberra was a night bomber really and it was, and of course we had Gee.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And GH and you did a minute stream. A minute stream.
CB: Yeah.
PH: We all flew one after the other up to the Iron Curtain and then all turned left you know. It was just to stir, stir up the Warsaw Pact. That was what it was really all about.
CB: Yeah. Quite predictable. Always turning left.
PH: That’s correct. Yes. That’s right.
CB: Ok.
PH: And then we’d probably go to Nordhorn or somewhere like that and do some bombing or whatever.
CB: Yeah. So, in Norway.
PH: No. Nordhorn is in Germany wasn’t it? I think.
CB: Oh was it?
PH: Yeah.
CB: Oh so you were flying that way as well as going up to the –
PH: Well we’d go out direct to the Iron Curtain, turn left.
CB: I see.
PH: Come back via Nordhorn which was -
CB: Yeah. Ok.
PH: In the northern part of Germany.
CB: Ok.
PH: In fact I’m not sure. It’s one of those islands that are off Sylt. Somewhere like that.
CB: Ok. So, yeah. Right. Ok.
PH: This is a long time ago now.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Fifty years ago, you know.
CB: So, when you were bombing what were you dropping?
PH: Twenty five pound bombs.
CB: Ok.
PH: When we, when we were using the bigger ones. The thousand pounders we tended to do that at, in Malta. Filfla. There was a bombing range. There was an island there that was used as a bombing range in Malta.
CB: Right.
PH: For daylight bombing we always used to deploy to, to Luqa for about a month at a time and use the bombing ranges in Libya which of course was not part of the empire but I don’t know, we had some, I forget, we had some interest in it.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And the Americans had some interest in it when they kicked out whatever his name was. I’m trying to think.
CB: Yeah. Well the airfield there was El Adem wasn’t it?
PH: That was one of the airfields. Yes. There was Benghazi. And there was another one the Americans had which had been called King, it was called Idris. That’s right.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Yes.
CB: Ok. So when you went on a sortie how did the sortie run?
PH: Say again.
CB: When you went off on these sorties how did the sorties run? Did you go on a dog leg or directly or how –
PH: Well you were given a timing to time on, TOT, Time On Target and you may have to dog leg if you were a bit early but usually you were late [laughs]. You were urging the, urging the pilot to put a bit more steam on.
CB: Ok.
PH: It was just a, I mean if that was Germany and say that’s the Iron Curtain there was a stream like and when you got there you turned left and went off to various places. Theddlethorpe, Nordhorn or sometimes back to base. That’s interesting. That’s right. We had something called to recover at base. You had something called a Trombone and the idea was to keep secret. You didn’t transmit or anything and they used to, your base would give a time. They would give a time. They would say whatever it was and you in your individual aircraft had a plus. So many minutes for your overhead so they had something called a Trombone and I know from Wittering on several occasions my Trombone ended over Liverpool ‘cause you had to lose thirty minutes or some bloody nonsense you know. This was so that when you landed you were landing in, I don’t think they, you see I don’t think although we were a minute apart in the bombing thing landing was a different ball game. They had to have a gap of about two minutes or three minutes which meant of course that the further back you were in the stream the longer you had to lose. In other words to land.
CB: So when you were actually doing the bombing the space time between aircraft doing the bombing is one minute. Is it –?
PH: Something like that. Yeah.
CB: The same for everybody was it?
PH: Yeah. Yeah.
CB: Right.
PH: But then after that as I say because you couldn’t land at minute’s slots at night you see.
CB: Yeah.
PH: During the day possibly. Excuse me [cough]. So you had to, as I say I had this Trombone where you flew down the Trombone to lose whatever minutes.
CB: Lose time.
PH: You had to. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Ok. So how many planes are going up at a time on this sort of thing?
PH: Oh I would have thought, well I was, you know well you say four hundred out?], a couple of hundred at least. Half. Every, every airfield, every Canberra airfield would have to send up about fifty percent of their aircraft.
CB: So –
PH: There would be a lot of aeroplanes in the air at the time.
CB: We’re in the dark as it was the case in the war.
PH: That’s right.
CB: And how were you aware or otherwise of the other planes on the stream?
PH: Never. [laughs] Didn’t see them. I think we flew with lights up to a certain point and then I can’t remember. I’m sure we flew with lights up to a certain point. Then they were switched off. I mean there were, there were mid airs as you can imagine.
CB: Mid-air collisions. Yeah.
PH: Correct.
CB: Fatal.
PH: Well I presume so yeah I mean let’s face it they didn’t advertise it too much as you can imagine.
CB: No. Ok. So you were at Wittering with 61 squadron. How long were you there?
PH: I’m trying to remember. Only about a year I think it was. Then we went to Upwood.
CB: Same squadron.
PH: Same squadron. Yes. I think, that’s right, I’m trying to remember. There was 61 squadron and I’m trying to think, there was, was there another squadron came from, yes there was another squadron came from, from Wittering. I can’t remember its number. There was 35 squadron and 40 squadron which came from somewhere like Scampton or Waddington. Somewhere like that. They ended up with four squadrons at Wittering if I remember right.
CB: Ok. And what about overseas detachments? How often did you do those?
PH: Oh yeah. We used to go to Malta, oh I should think every three months for anything up to, up to a month at a time. Some two weeks to a month doing visual bombing either at Idris, not Idris, I’m trying, Tarhuna, I think was the range in Libya.
CB: In Libya. Ok. And I’m just thinking of the envelope you were operating in. So you take off. What height would you cruise at?
PH: Anything between thirty six and forty thousand feet.
CB: And what speed would you be doing?
PH: Are you talking about airspeed or ground speed? Air speed would be about –
CB: Take air speed.
PH: Four hundred and sixty. Oh no. Not air speed, no. True airspeed about five hundred. I can’t remember. Two hundred and twenty knots. Something like that.
CB: Oh you were quite, quite –
PH: Something like that. Your true airspeed is twice your indicated airspeed.
CB: Ok.
PH: Something like that.
CB: Right.
PH: I don’t remember the figures.
CB: The indicated air speed would be?
PH: Well the indicated air speed would be, well about two hundred and twenty knots you see.
CB: Right.
PH: That was what you saw on your dial with your back –
CB: Yeah.
PH: Because we didn’t have GPI on 61 squadron.
CB: GPS. Right.
PH: GPS.
CB: Ok. So your, the actual speed that you’re going is what? Over –
PH: Four hundred and eighty knots.
CB: Four eighty. Ok.
PH: Something of that order.
CB: And you’re at variable heights. How was the height decided?
PH: Well I can assure you in 1955/56 there wasn’t a fighter in either the allied or the Warsaw Pact that could touch a Canberra flight. We could turn inside them you see.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Of course that really broad wing. I mean if we turned inside a Hunter it fell, it fell out the sky.
CB: Yeah.
PH: So did Sabres.
CB: Sure. So how often did you do fighter affiliation?
PH: Not that often. Not that often. Not true fighter affiliation. We, I can’t, I don’t remember doing any actual fighter affiliation with the RAF. Fleet Air Arm yes. I’m trying to think. Was it HMS Albion? What was the carrier they had in those days?
CB: So this would be in the Mediterranean or in the North Sea.
PH: No. In the Mediterranean. Yes. Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Ok.
PH: When we were at, they used to ask us to come down five thousand feet –
CB: Ok. Did they?
PH: Because their fighters couldn’t reach us. I think they had Venoms –
CB: Yeah.
PH: Or something on board didn’t they?
CB: Then Sea Hawks. Later they had Sea Hawks.
PH: Oh and Attackers.
CB: Then Attackers. Yeah. So now the bombing run so where would the bombing run start?
PH: I’m not with you.
CB: So you’ve got a target.
PH: Yes.
CB: And you’ve transited to the target.
PH: Yes.
CB: But how would you handle the bombing run? Would you be higher? Lower?
PH: Well that was, that was when you were sort of vulnerable because you had to be, fly straight and level for at least twenty miles before the target.
CB: Right.
PH: So then you had to stay straight and level. In fact we developed a technique, the Canberra squadrons developed a technique called the late bomb door opening because if you opened the bomb doors way back it made it very difficult. It made the aircraft wobble.
CB: Yes. Yeah.
PH: So we I think it was seven seconds before target, before, not target, but before actually dropping the GH bomb.
CB: Yeah.
PH: I mean, don’t forget you’re way back aren’t you?
CB: Yeah.
PH: I mean you’re about thirty miles from the target. I can’t remember the exact distance but you’re well back because of the forward throw of the bomb.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Well it -
PH: It had a different –
CB: Depended on the height and speed as to just how –
PH: Yes, exactly. Yes.
CB: Far you were letting go in advance?
PH: We had, you had a set of, you had a set of figures which were quite amusing. This is a true story. You’ll like a true story. You had a set of figures which you set up on your G set.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And when they [clashed?] the bomb went automatically.
CB: Right.
PH: And we were, we were first in the stream, that’s right, it was when we, Squadron Leader Hartley so it must, we were, it must have been soon after we arrived at Wittering because we were still a a 8UE squadron. Squadron Leader Hartley was the boss who got killed subsequently. Anyway, we arrived back to be greeted and this was on a night exercise and I should think it’s in the book. They used to do them, we used to do them regularly. About at least once a month. Let me have a look and see. See if I can get the name.
CB: So we’re looking in the book now but –
PH: Well I’m trying to see what –
[pause]
CB: Well what we could do Peter is come back to that.
PH: Well yeah anyway.
CB: Because –
PH: There used to be, used to be an exercise, an operation so and so. This is what I was talking about where you flew to the, I’ve lost the thread now. Oh yes we were first in, we were first at Nordhorn and I dropped the bomb. Fifty yards I said. I said, ‘That’s the fifty yards [two hours down?]. We landed. We had this enormous bloody greeting. Station commander. Squadron commander. ‘What did you do Pete?’ ‘Well what did I do?’ ‘Well your bomb dropped two thousand yards short in the woods, set fire to the woods and the whole exercise had to be cancelled’. So I said, ‘Well I don’t understand that.’ And they said, ‘Can we see?’ And what had happened was the nav leader had typed the wrong, one of the digits wrong in my G set. So it wasn’t my fault.
CB: No.
PH: It was the nav leader.
CB: This was before you took off.
PH: Oh yeah. Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
PH: You had a set of digits.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And those are the ones you put in your GH set?
CB: Yeah.
PH: And he’d, he’d typed them up in a hurry or whatever and he’d got one of the digits wrong and it was two thousand yards out. So I was, I was exonerated and he got his bum kicked.
CB: Yeah.
PH: You can imagine.
CB: Yeah. Sure.
PH: Well the whole exercise had to be cancelled ‘cause we were the first ones through. ‘Cause I mean, I had the, I was the best bomb aimer in Bomber Command at the time.
CB: Right.
PH: Allegedly you know.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
PH: Done on results.
CB: Yeah. Right. So just going back. Here we are on the run in.
PH: Yes.
CB: And –
PH: That’s when you’ve got to fly straight and level.
CB: You’ve got, straight and level. Would you normally be at a higher or lower level than your cruise approach when you actually did the bombing?
PH: Do you know I can’t remember?
CB: Ok.
PH: No. I’ve got an idea that you tended to fly around at the height you were going to bomb at.
CB: Right. So the practicality is we’ve got the pilot and then we have the navigator and –
PH: The plotter. Yes.
CB: Plotter as well so there’s three of you in the aircraft.
PH: Correct.
CB: Who did the bombing?
PH: I did. The, the set up.
CB: Right. Ok.
PH: So you had, the navigator had in front of him, he had his radar screen.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And I had a GH screen up there.
CB: Yeah. So you’re sitting side by side in the back.
PH: Yes. That’s right.
CB: How did you get through to the front?
PH: Well you climbed on the, there was a, only, only fifty percent of the back, I mean all the instruments were there and there was a gap.
CB: Yeah.
PH: You had to go under the, you know you had to –
CB: So you’re crawling down to the –
PH: This was only for visual bombing.
CB: Yeah.
PH: You had to go in to the nose.
CB: That’s what I meant.
PH: For visual bombing. For GH bombing you did it in your seat.
CB: Ok. That’s what I’m trying to get, differentiate here. Sometimes you’d do visual bombing would you?
PH: Correct.
CB: On what circumstance would you do visual bombing?
PH: Well they did a lot during the Suez campaign.
CB: Ok.
PH: When they bombed because it was in, the Gee and GH didn’t reach that far.
CB: No. Right. So you were practising visual bombing.
PH: Correct.
CB: At any time.
PH: From forty eight thousand feet sometimes.
CB: Right. Ok.
PH: Used to have, there was a strike barge at Wainfleet and I think there was another one at Chesil, Chesil beach.
CB: Right. In the south. Yeah.
PH: These were, these were the old invasion barges painted black and yellow and they used those as targets. And there was Theddlethorpe, Nordhorn but some, I think Theddlethorpe and Nordhorn were GH I don’t think they were visual. I can’t remember.
CB: Right.
PH: I think they were straight GH.
CB: So here we are flying along on your final approach to the target.
PH: Yes.
CB: The pilot and you are coordinating the activity.
PH: Completely yes.
CB: Who is actually running the plane at that time?
PH: Oh the pilot. The pilot.
CB: Right he’s still running it.
PH: Yeah.
CB: Who is pressing the –
PH: Unlike some of the American aircraft where the bomb aimer actually had physical control of the aeroplane. The Brits never went for that.
CB: No.
PH: You always used to say to the pilot left a bit, left a bit, steady, steady, steady.
CB: Sure. Yeah. And then you pressed –
PH: You pressed the bomb.
CB: Right.
PH: The pilot had to activate, had a switch to activate the, the –
CB: The release.
PH: The bomb aiming equipment.
CB: Yeah.
PH: But the bomb aimer was the one who opened the –
CB: Oh the bomb aimer equipment. Ok.
PH: Who did that?
CB: Ok. So you physically had to press the button for it to go.
PH: Correct. That’s visual bombing only.
CB: He, right, so on GH how did that happen?
PH: It was all done automatically.
CB: Ok.
PH: When the bomb –
CB: So effectively when the crosses merged.
PH: That’s right. Yeah.
CB: The lines cross.
PH: Yeah.
CB: Then it goes. Right.
PH: Correct.
CB: And it’s been programmed on the ground on the basis of what the wind –
PH: Yes. That’s right. Yeah.
CB: Is expected to be. Now what about circumstances where you have to approach at a different height for some reason? Would that happen? So you had a planned height of say forty thousand.
PH: Well I think on the GH side you’d have to throw it away because you you wouldn’t have the necessary coordinates you know. On the visual side we’d [play?] off the cuff.
CB: Right. Ok. So a lot of this is practical stuff in training.
PH: Yes.
CB: So Suez comes along.
PH: Yes.
CB: How did you get involved in that? What? Were you still with 61?
PH: Well I was never involved in the actual bombing of Egypt but I was involved in, I was in, I was at Nicosia and my crew were involved. My son was born and then they, they didn’t send me abroad. Our crew spent, George [Cram?], myself and a chap called oh, I should think Roger Atkinson, we were transiting carrying three, thousand pound bombs from the UK to Cyprus via Luqa.
CB: Right.
PH: It was a bit hairy. We had three thousand pound bombs on board.
CB: Makes a heavy landing does it?
PH: Yeah. Well of course they, I mean they were dropping, it was thousand pounders. The Canberra could carry thousand pounders of course and also nuclear weapons later on but originally the actual iron bombs were the thousand pound.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Which we used to drop, practice dropping on Filfla which is just off Malta. Big island off Malta.
CB: Right. So how many thousand pounders could it carry at one time?
PH: Three.
CB: Ok.
PH: Two and one.
CB: Right. Two side by side. Yeah and one behind or below.
PH: Below.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Below.
CB: Ok. Right. So we’re on 61 squadron and you’re occasionally going on your detachments.
PH: Yes.
CB: Where did you go after Wittering?
PH: Ah well what happened was I was on what was known as an eight and four at the time and when 61 squadron packed up I was, I only had about eighteen months to do in the air force [allegedly?] so I was posted to 58 squadron at, at Wyton as by that time they had, the squadrons had a full time adjutant. And I was posted there as the adjutant with no admin training [allegedly] but I was, but because it was Canberras again I did a lot of flying and I went to Christmas Island during the H bomb tests.
CB: Ok.
PH: It’s all in the book.
CB: Yeah. So the H bomb is what size in relation to the iron bombs of a thousand pound?
PH: I’ve got no idea. Never seen one.
CB: Oh you didn’t see one there.
PH: No.
CB: Ok.
PH: Well Wyton was PR you see.
CB: Right.
PH: It wasn’t, it wasn’t bombers, it was, we had PR7s.
CB: Ok. PR7s. So the photographic reconnaissance Mark 7s.
PH: Yes. That’s right.
CB: So what did, what did what did you do there?
PH: Well I was, my full time job was adjutant.
CB: Ok.
PH: Squadron adjutant. A chap called Colin Fell. Wing Commander Fell.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Nice chap. Ended up as an air commodore. Navigator. One of the, you know at that time one of the few navigator squadron commanders.
CB: Yeah. So how long were you at –?
PH: Eighteen months.
CB: Right. Then what?
PH: Well, I happened because I was the adjutant I always read the DCI, Defence Council Instructions and one came. I was into judo, I was a judo instructor and then and one of these DCI’s came around saying that there was vacancies to learn Japanese so I put my name down and I’m trying to think. [North?] Lewis. [North?] Lewis was the CO and he said, ‘Oh no,’ sort of thing but there was a caveat on the Defence Council Instructions saying that all applications had to be forwarded regardless of whether they were approved or not by the CO so mine was forwarded. I was called to London for an interview. Sat in front of this large group of men and as soon as I walked in and sat down they said, ‘Well of course we’re not, we’re not teaching Japanese.’ So I sort of almost got up to go and they said, ‘Sit down. Would you like to learn Chinese or Russian?’ And I said, ‘What’s the role?’ They said, ‘Well if you learn Chinese you go to Hong Kong for a couple years.’ And I was married at the time so, well I was married. ‘And if you learn Russian you go to the School of Slavonic and East European Studies in London and as I’d recently bought a house in Edgeware I thought I’ll do that because by then I’d accepted a –
CB: PC.
PH: A permanent commission.
CB: Right.
PH: So I went to the School of Slavonic and East European Studies for a year. That must have been about ‘58/59. I then went and stayed with a family in Paris for ten months. A Russian family. Emigre family. Did the Foreign Office interpreter’s exam and got a, I got a second class pass which is not bad really. I mean very few people get a first class pass. I then went to a place called Butzweilerhof in, in Germany.
CB: Germany.
PH: Cologne. Where for a time I was CO of the intercept, the intercept section.
CB: You were a squadron leader by now.
PH: No. Still a flight sergeant.
CB: Right.
PH: And from there I went back to flying on Victors at Marham, tankers. As navigator.
CB: Ok so –
PH: And then I was short toured deliberately by the, by, despite my, despite my AOC saying that, ‘He’s part of a crew, a five year crew,’ and I was only three years, I was short because of my Russian and I went to a unit called BRIXMIS in Berlin. British Commander in Chief’s Mission to the Group of Soviet Forces and I was an interpreter with the Soviet forces in Germany and met lots of Russian generals. And my boss was a chap called Gerry Dewhurst. Have you ever come across Gerry?
CB: So in practical terms what are you doing at brexmas, BRIXMAS?
PH: Sorry?
CB: What were you doing at BRIXMAS then?
PH: Spying.
CB: Right. So –
PH: In practical terms. We used to tour East Germany.
CB: In cars.
PH: In a car.
CB: Yeah.
PH: With cameras to make sure that they weren’t building up their forces.
CB: This was part of the agreement with the Russians.
PH: Correct. They had SOXMAS.
CB: They watched you and you watched them.
PH: Yeah. They had, they had a similar unit at a place called Bunde.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And the Americans and the French, we all had, I mean I got on very well with the Americans and the French and we used to, we used to you know talk to each other about where we were going to go and make sure we weren’t double you know. We made sure that we didn’t, I mean one stayed out all night sometimes on an airfield and God knows what.
CB: Didn’t [know]
PH: Because, see what happens was the Soviets, the Russians because East Germany was, you know, very delicate, sensitive they always put their new kit there. So, I mean, you know we had army tourers and air force tourers and we got some of the first photographs, good photographs of the MIG, the MIG 21J which was very early on. But I mean it’s surprising Janet, when I was doing the, when I became a volunteer of RAFVR and I was doing the air, air. Well analysing the air side because intelligence you try and pretend you’re the enemy really because you give your, your boss what you think the enemy is going to do so you put yourself in the enemy’s place. At one time the Russians or the East, sorry the Warsaw Pact had twenty eight divisions in East Germany. Twenty eight divisions, the Brits, the Brits had one, the Americans had one, the Germans had about four. Three or four. And the French had one and they had nearly three hundred aeroplanes, three hundred, sorry what am I talking about? Two thousand aeroplanes and I think we had about three hundred or four hundred. I mean when I used to do the briefings for the, for the war, you know, for what was it called? There was a –
CB: The war games.
PH: Wintex. Wintex was the big, they say the generals they’ll be at the, they’ll be at the coast in, they’ll be at the channel coast in four days. That was why you know they had the tactical nuclear weapons.
CB: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
PH: I mean you know that was the truth. There was no good, no good denying it. There was no way. You know.
CB: No. So you were doing that from ‘50/60.
PH: Well I did that from, let’s think. That must have been ‘67. ‘67 to ’70. Something like that.
CB: Ok. Right. Just –
PH: Then I came back to MOD and I was going to be posted to Uxbridge as gash supernumerary but a chap, I’m trying to think of his name in MOD, who I knew very well. He used to, he was a great fixer. He got me posted to the Foreign Liaison Section to finish my time in MOD and because I was a Russian speaker I was given the South American desk [laughs] of course.
CB: Good service logic isn’t it?
PH: Sorry?
CB: Good service logic.
PH: Yeah. Well I mean that was vacant and that was, you know, he got me in and I was quite pleased with it because I still met the Russians and more cocktail parties than you could shake a stick at and I’ll tell you a thing. The poorer the country the more ostentatious their cocktail parties and social events are. Some of these African countries that were starving their ambassadors used to throw these champagne fuelled caviar and Christ knows what, you know.
CB: Amazing. Right.
PH: And by then I was, and I was lucky enough to be asked if I wanted, when was leaving I was to ring a certain telephone number which I did and I got a job and I did another twenty two years with a, an organisation which I think the last letter of its number was five.
CB: I can’t think what on earth you’re talking about. Right [laughs] Right.
PH: Am I allowed to say these days?
CB: Yeah.
PH: At one time we weren’t.
CB: So –
PH: Which I thoroughly enjoyed.
CB: Yeah. The South American desk. In practical terms you were doing something useful but what was it?
PH: Liaising with anybody, any, I mean –
CB: Anybody in South America.
PH: No. No. Anybody, anybody across the board.
CB: Right.
PH: But I did, I remember one occasion that’s right. Yeah mainly South America but I mean you didn’t have to speak, they all spoke English anyway.
CB: Yeah.
PH: But I always remember I had to introduce new attaches to the chief of the air staff and I’m trying to think at the time who it was. [unclear] Oh dear. It will come to me in a moment and I know that the guy, the guy I introduced was Peruvian Air Force. He was lieutenant colonel, no lieutenant [stress] general and they kicked him out because obviously he was probably involved in some sort of coup. Jesus [Gabilondo?]. His name was General Jesus [Gabilondo?] and I remember I introduced him to the, said to the chief of the air staff who sort of almost said, ‘What.’ [laughs]. I said, ‘Sir, this is General Jesus [Gabilondo?].
CB: Yeah.
PH: Nice chap.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Flying Canberras ‘cause we’d sold Canberras to the Peruvians if I remember right.
CB: Absolutely. Yeah.
PH: So we did have something in common. Nice chap.
CB: Just going back –
PH: But that rank. I mean, you know, that incredible rank to be, to be a military attaché really.
CB: Yeah. Yeah. Just going back to your Victor times at Marham.
PH: Yes.
CB: So here we have a tanker squadron.
PH: Yes.
CB: So what were, you as the navigator in one of the aircraft there.
PH: Yes.
CB: How did that work? You were linking with [pause] nice picture on the wall.
PH: There I am in the –
CB: What was the typical day? You were up fuelling fighters.
PH: Well we were very very busy because what happened was the Valiant packed up as you know. The Victor was brought in in a hell of rush. In fact what I was initially on 55 squadron which only had the two point tanker.
CB: Right.
PH: They borrowed or stole or whatever it was from refuelling pods from the navy.
CB: Oh.
PH: Which were put on the wings.
CB: Right.
PH: And we did something called Operation Forthright which was flying between the UK and Cyprus to bring back, believe it or not, Lightnings that were stranded all around the Middle East ‘cause with the demise of the Valiant they couldn’t get back because as you know the Lightning, Lightning, the early Lightnings only had a range of about seventy bloody miles. They were terrible. Unless we, the lightning 6s were a bit better but I mean the original Lightnings had to be, they had to be refuelled as soon as they got airborne virtually.
CB: Yeah. Right.
PH: I mean they were designed to go up, shoot down the incoming and come back.
CB: And come back again. Yeah. Right.
PH: But that was Forthright. So we enjoyed that. We were doing a lot of flying. Unusuall. I mean I was doing something like sixty hours a month which is really double what the air force normally. I mean thirty hours used to be the norm wasn’t it really?
CB: So this is in two sections really. There’s the overseas deployment.
PH: Yes.
CB: And there is the UK. So on the UK you’re flying from Marham which is Norfolk.
PH: Yeah.
CB: Where are you flying and what are you doing?
PH: Well what we did mostly and I shall think of the name of it. What did you call it? Between the Wash and Newcastle and we used to refuel. They used to practice refuelling. We used to go around like that for about four hours.
CB: So you’re flying in an oblong shape are you?
PH: Yeah. I have the thing, just one moment
CB: And what are you refuelling? Only Lightnings?
PH: Anything.
CB: Only Lightnings or Americans.
PH: Let me just tell you in a moment. Let me look.
CB: Yeah. Ok. We’re just stopping, stopping just for a mo.
[Recording paused]
PH: For refuel.
CB: So you’re flying an elliptical circuit.
PH: That’s right.
CB: Effectively so that just, how does that work then?
PH: And we called it a Tow line.
CB: You called it tow line. And how did it work?
PH: Well you just, they called you up and said, you know, we, they knew we were there and the Lightnings from Leuchars or wherever. Coltishall. I think there were Lightnings at Coltishall. They knew we were there and for them to practice refuelling.
CB: Right.
PH: And we just, I mean it was quite boring. I mean just went around in this elliptical shape. As I said, tow line.
CB: So as the navigator what was your role in that?
PH: Virtually nothing because the guy doing the refuelling was the co-navigator. Two navigators in the Victor. One was the nav, one, I was the plotter and he was the other guy was the set up.
CB: Right.
PH: A chap called Pete [Hall?] and he was the set op around the radar but he also controlled the refuelling setup. I believe latterly they transferred it to the co-pilot.
CB: Right.
PH: But I mean in those days it was done by the –
CB: The nav radar.
PH: The nav. Nav radar. Nav radar. Yeah.
CB: Yeah ok. So did he have a means of looking backward?
PH: Yes. The telescope.
CB: They’d put a telescope in specifically for that.
PH: Yeah.
CB: Ok. So how did it work? So you’re flying straight and level. What sort of speed would you be flying for the refuelling?
PH: Well depending what you were refuelling. Normally about three hundred knots.
CB: Ok and so you’re straight and level for specifically a period.
PH: We’ll all the time straight and level. Well until you turn, you turn and come –
CB: Yeah.
PH: I mean the leg would take probably fifteen or twenty minutes.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Each –
CB: And what speed are you going?
PH: Well around I think.
CB: Three hundred knots you said.
PH: Yeah. Well no about two hundred and forty air speed.
CB: And, and height?
PH: Anything between thirty two and thirty eight thousand feet depending on the, how bumpy it was.
CB: Yeah.
PH: We would try and find you know the smoothest level we could, we would and then we’d settle down and they’d transmit what height we were at.
CB: ‘Cause in practical terms the air force system was to run a drogue line.
PH: That’s right.
CB: Effectively.
PH: Yeah.
CB: With a –
PH: He had, he had a nozzle.
CB: A nozzle in the back.
PH: And we had a drogue.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And that was it.
CB: Right.
PH: And once and it was, there was a set of rings and things and when it connected it wouldn’t float.
CB: It held it.
PH: Yeah.
CB: Yeah.
PH: But of course when you withdrew when it withdrew there was always a spurt of fuel came out you know which which could blind the pilot sometimes.
CB: Yeah.
PH: ‘Cause it could go on his windscreen.
CB: Yeah. Well yeah. So the fighter is coming up and getting fuel on.
PH: Correct.
CB: And is trying to negotiate the drogue.
PH: Correct.
CB: And –
PH: You had to fly, you had to fly –
CB: Into it.
PH: Depends where the drogue were. I think on the Lightning it was above them.
CB: His nozzle was above his head.
PH: I’m trying to think, I’m trying to think. What was the other one? We did refuel the odd one.
CB: Phantom.
PH: Phantoms, I think, yeah. Yeah.
CB: Buccaneer.
PH: Buccaneers. That’s the other one. Yes. Yes.
CB: Right.
PH: Buccaneers.
CB: What about the Americans? Did you do any of those?
PH: I personally, I didn’t but I know the squadron did eventually but the Americans had a different system you see.
CB: Yeah.
PH: The Americans –
CB: Theirs is a guided.
PH: They had a drogue operator who fed the drogue on to the –
CB: Yeah.
PH: On to the other aircraft.
CB: It was a long bar wasn’t it?
PH: Yeah.
CB: Yeah. Well is. Yeah. Ok. Right. And did you refuel other Victors occasionally?
PH: Eventually because as I pointed out originally it was only a two point tanker because they hadn’t, they hadn’t yet got the hoodoo. The hose drum unit.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Known as the hoodoo.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Which eventually was –
CB: In the centre.
PH: Fitted into the bomb bay. Once that was done because the wingspan of a bomber you couldn’t accommodate it on a wing –
CB: No.
PH: Refuelling pod but then oh yeah we did what we called mutual. Victor to Victor.
CB: And you could do two fighters at the same time.
PH: At a time.
CB: Could you?
PH: But only one large aircraft.
CB: Yeah. Ok.
PH: Other Victors we had Victor to Victor and then we had Victors to whatever was available.
CB: Ok. So that’s UK. Then when you went overseas how did that work? You were based in Cyprus or where were you?
PH: Normally in Cyprus yeah. That was, they were called Forthrights if I remember right. Operation Forthright. That was taking Lightnings backward and forwards between because we didn’t have Lightnings based permanently in Cyprus at that time they were always on detachment from the UK squadrons and they would be out there for a couple of months and then changed over.
CB: So would they fly the whole distance non-stop or would they pop into Southern France. In to Orange?
PH: Oh no we tried to take them all away.
CB: You did. Right.
PH: The trouble with the Lightning was as soon as it landed it bloody went u/s.
CB: Oh right. So you’d want to keep it airborne.
PH: So they kept it airborne [laughs] Yeah. I mean they, well it didn’t take, it only took about five or six hours to get to Cyprus from the UK.
CB: Sure. Yeah. Because they’re, they’re transiting quite fast.
PH: Yeah. I, yeah and I enjoyed being a nav because my responsibility was not just looking after the Victor but looking after the Lightnings as well just in case they had some form of malfunction like breaking a probe which did happen. They had to make sure that the refuelling, they had refuelling brackets enroute. I had to make sure the refuelling brackets, if something happened instead of dropping into the sea they could divert somewhere you know.
CB: So the refuelling bracket is a period, a space over the route.
PH: Yes.
CB: Certain areas where you would do it.
PH: These were pre-determined –
CB: Right.
PH: Between, you, you had a special map which had what they called refuelling brackets and that was where –
CB: Right.
PH: You actually did the refuelling.
CB: So were you stationed in Italy sometimes as part of the -?
PH: Say again.
CB: Would you sometimes have your Victor in Italy in order to be able to deal with the brackets.
PH: Personally no. I know that, that, no after I left the squadron because of, what’s his name, Mintov they had to use Sigonella in Italy but, because he, he banned the RAF from Luqa but we always used Luqa.
CB: Right.
PH: What happened was we would have on day one a Victor would go to Luqa.
CB: Yeah.
PH: On its own with a crew and that would be refuelled and everything ready and then on day two the Victor with its two Lightnings would take off from Marham. The Lightnings would join, go via Luqa. You’d call up when you were approaching Luqa. [cough] Excuse me. He would get airborne, take over your slot and you would then go into Luqa.
CB: Right.
PH: And depending on what was going on you might well stay there and do the same thing as he’d done the day before. Refuel. And the next pair through you would take on to Cyprus.
CB: Right.
PH: It was quite complicated. It was quite well thought out.
CB: Ok.
PH: And occasionally if we were going further we’d do a Victor to Victor refuelling at height because like, like the Lightning the Victor used nearly half its fuel getting to height.
CB: Yeah. So how long did it take to get up to height with a full –
PH: What? The Victor? Forty minutes.
CB: Did it?
PH: Lightning did it in three. [Laughs]
CB: Yes. [Laughs] Going to stop there for a mo.
[Recording paused]
CB: So we’re just re-starting. Are you due to have your lunch shortly?
PH: No. I’m ok.
CB: Ok.
PH: No problem. I’m eating this evening so I shall just –
CB: Right. Ok
PH: Have a cup of soup at lunchtime.
CB: Right. Ok. So one of the interesting things here is that, two things, first of all in the war the pilots who re-mustered to do other things maintained their wings.
PH: Oh I see.
CB: You didn’t.
PH: No. The law, the regulations state –
CB: How did you feel about that?
PH: You wear the brevvy of the job you are doing.
CB: Yeah. So how did you feel about that?
PH: Well as a youngster I was a bit miffed but you know it was a fact of life. You do as you were told.
CB: And once you got in to being a navigator.
PH: I enjoyed it very much. The navigator on Victors was the best job in the air force.
CB: In what way?
PH: On tankers.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Well because you were in control really. I mean the pilots did exactly what you told them. I mean they did anyway but I mean in that particular context I mean, you were, the two navs ran the operation completely.
CB: ‘Cause you’re running a pattern.
PH: Yes.
CB: And you’re also doing a task that is very intricate.
PH: Correct.
CB: Right.
PH: Not like sitting on your backside you know on QRA for God knows how long waiting for the –
CB: Yeah.
PH: We did do a QRA at one time. The Victor tankers because of the way we could stay airborne for quite a long while. There was a phase that the NATO went through where they were simulating that all the, the, shall we say the, let’s get the, war headquarters etcetera had all been wiped out by the Warsaw Pact and by getting a tanker airborne with a senior officer in it he was the, he was the one who could control what was going on and we did that for about a year and that was, that was a type of QRA where you set the aircraft sat at the end of the runway and you were in a caravan in your flying kit ready to get airborne if you were told.
CB: Yeah
PH: We did, we did simulate it once or twice but it never came to anything.
CB: Just to –
PH: The concept was you’d end up with a group captain sort of determining whether or not you were going to obliterate bloody Moscow, you know, quite frankly.
CB: Right. So just to clarify that. QRA is Quick Reaction Alert.
PH: Reaction alert. Yes.
CB: You’ve got a bunch of aircraft at the end of the runway.
PH: Correct.
CB: That can, can –
PH: Get airborne –
CB: Start off.
PH: In three or four minutes. That’s right.
CB: And move quickly.
PH: Correct.
CB: Yeah. Ok. Next bit is the difference between the wartime experience with the family and peacetime is that wartime the families were banned from the airfield and its environment.
PH: Yes.
CB: But in peacetime.
PH: Oh yeah. We lived in quarters.
CB: You had quarters. So what was it like -
PH: Yes.
CB: For the family?
PH: Well enjoyable. I mean we enjoyed living on, on station. Plenty going on. Social life in the officer’s mess you know. Kids went to decent schools.
CB: So, in Germany the children –
PH: My oldest son was at boarding school when we were in Germany.
CB: Where was he at school?
PH: He was at Wymondham College.
CB: Oh yes. Yeah.
PH: But the others were with us because my last son Anthony was born in ‘64. By that time we were back in the UK.
CB: Right.
PH: Semi permanently.
CB: Right. So the others didn’t go away to school.
PH: No. Not really. They stayed with us. ‘Cause in Germany the schooling was quite good. The British education system was quite what they called –
CB: Yeah.
PH: BF, British Forces.
CB: BFPO.
PH: No. Yeah. British Forces education. BFES or something.
CB: Education yeah. Ok and on the airfields what sort of, what were the quarters like?
PH: Cold [laughs]. Cold. At Marham we didn’t have central heating and we, we couldn’t use the dining room ‘cause it faced, faced north east and you know when you’ve got that wind in from Norway or the North Sea all you had was a radiator or something you know. No central heating.
CB: Electric radiator.
PH: Yeah. Something like that.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Yeah.
CB: Right. But the quality of the building and the furniture was ok was it?
PH: As far as we were concerned they were ok, you know.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Oh no. That’s right. Marham. Yeah, that’s right. No. At Marham we had a lounge which had a door directly into the lounge which if you opened it you stepped into the mud in the garden.
CB: Oh.
PH: And I’m told, we were told that it was an architect had made a note for a door instead of a window. It should have been a window but in fact they put a door in there for some unknown reason. I mean who would have a door directly in to the lounge? I mean we had a front door and a back door. I mean they were nice quarters. They were but they were cold. These days of course they’ve all got central heating but in those days there was no such thing.
CB: No. So these are all traditional airfields. Expansion period airfields.
PH: That’s right yeah.
CB: The ones you were based in.
PH: Marham. We weren’t in quarters.
CB: Wittering.
PH: We lived on a caravan sight at Upwood and at Wittering. We had a caravan there.
CB: Oh. Because the quarters were all full were they? The quarters were full?
PH: Yes they [might have been?]. I was fairly junior at the time, you see.
CB: Yeah.
PH: There used to be a waiting list.
CB: Yeah.
PH: But then you got to a frozen list eventually.
CB: Right.
PH: If you were lucky.
CB: And in Germany what were the quarters like there?
PH: Very good. Excellent. Central heating. The lot. My wife said to me after we’d lived in one of those, ‘When you leave the air force Pete I’ll live in a shed but it’ll have to be bloody centrally heated.’ [Laughs] Having been in quarters in the UK which were bloody freezing you know.
CB: So in Germany what was the life like there?
PH: Excellent. Local overseas allowance and all sorts of things you know.
CB: And did you, was everything centred on the airfield or did you tend to get out much?
PH: I wasn’t flying in Germany.
CB: No.
PH: They were both were ground tours.
CB: I was wondering if you got out in to the hinterland much.
PH: I did in, in Berlin. Yeah. I was touring East Germany.
CB: Yeah.
PH: My wife often said our tour in Berlin was, our three year tour was the best ten years of our lives. The social life was incredible.
CB: Yeah.
PH: I mean I was almost a diplomat you see.
CB: Yeah.
PH: Virtually had diplomatic immunity. And I mean you know it was very difficult. The Americans were always throwing enormous parties, you know. My kids loved going to the Americans. They used to have forty gallon bloody drums of ice filled with coca cola and Christ knows what you know. Just helped yourself.
CB: Yeah. Extravagant with everything.
PH: Absolutely.
CB: But very hospitable.
PH: Absolutely. Yes. Very difficult to, to reciprocate.
CB: Yeah. And on a professional front then how did that work?
PH: I’m not with you.
CB: Well from the air force and intelligence point of view how did the working together –
PH: We were told by –
CB: Operate.
PH: RAF Germany that the intelligence we produced was invaluable. I think I said we got the first pictures of the new MIG 21J.
CB: Yeah.
PH: All the new tanks [unclear] yeah.
CB: So in when you went out on these sorties, forays in to East Germany you weren’t staying in airfields there ‘cause they didn’t let, you were driving around all the time were you?
PH: Well no. You camped up with luck. If you get in undetected on the landing side of an airfield.
CB: Right.
PH: Which, of which one had heard there was particular interest.
CB: Right.
PH: ‘Cause what you were after was photography.
CB: Yeah.
PH: And especially if an aircraft had got its gear down and its undercarriage open and then it’s you know the technical boys can tell a lot from that apparently, you know.
CB: Right. Yeah. Good. Ok. I’ll just stop there again thank you.
[Recording paused]
CB: So you’re out in East Germany winter and summer so –
PH: Yeah.
CB: What sort of things was that like?
PH: Well go back to square one. What you’ve got to appreciate is that the west did not recognise the east. The Soviets called it the Democratic Republic of East Germany. The west called it the Soviet Occupied Zone of Germany and this was the protocol.
CB: Right.
PH: And you know the diplomacy sometimes is childish because I would have to go sometimes to a meeting because we’d been called because of an infringement or something and they’d produce this protocol which said so and so so and so happened in the Democratic Republic of East Germany which I then had to cross out and write Russian Occupied Zone of East Germany and initial it and then they would cross it out [laughs]. But that was, that was the situation. So basically if you got into trouble in East Germany we weren’t allowed to discuss it with the, with the Volkspolizei. We had to call for a Russian officer. And that was the situation.
CB: So were these engineered incidents were they?
PH: Oh yeah. Absolutely yeah they I mean they, they I mean we would take pictures. We used to be, I used to have one and I lost it unfortunately when I moved. A big sign said, what was it -? “Presence of Foreign Liaison Missions Forbidden” in German and in Russian and in English [ unclear] and if you went [?] what we would do, quite often we would take the sign down and throw it in the nearest bloody river. If you wanted to get near to an airfield. Which they had no right to do you see.
CB: Right.
PH: Allegedly. But they’d come and put another one up and then you’d get, you’d get nicked you know by the Russians because you were behind the sign as it were you know and then there would be a protest and that was where I would have to go with my boss because there had been a protest that flight lieutenant, always referred to me you know, Flight Lieutenant Hearmon was caught speeding at such and such a place and I’d have to deny it you know and say no, it wasn’t true you know but quite often it was true but sometimes it wasn’t. It was just fabricated by the Volkspolizei, the East German police. It was quite amusing at times. Yeah.
CB: So you’d camp out.
PH: Oh yeah. I had a little tent and a very good sleeping bag. An army sleeping bag. You know one of those ones that zips up with arms.
CB: Oh right.
PH: You know the sort I mean?
CB: Yeah. Yeah. So it was quite cold sometimes.
PH: Yeah. Oh yeah but you know one slept ok. You’d wake up sometimes with ice all over your bloody face.
CB: So how low would the temperature go?
PH: Minus twenty two. I think that was the lowest one we ever had.
CB: Summertime. What about summertime?
PH: Well that would be ok. It would be hot.
CB: But not too hot.
PH: No. No. You’d do about one, you’d do about two tours a month. That was all because you had to write everything up as well you know and that could take two or three days.
CB: So you’d come back. You’d write things up. How did the debrief go?
PH: Well the debrief was done by you. I mean it was all, it was a question of matching up. You would give a narrative about the photographs etcetera etcetera and then that was all sent. It was looked at by our own ops officers. Usually an army chap and then it would go to, what do you call it? RAFG. Royal Air Force Germany. Second ATAF intelligence. Yeah.
CB: So were you verbally debriefed by your seniors after these trips?
PH: No. Not really. Just asked, ‘How did it go?’ Because you know they might look at your report before it went off but you know they knew what you’d, they trusted you shall we say.
CB: Yeah and you were able to practice your Russian regularly were you?
PH: Yes. Yes.
CB: So you got even more proficient.
PH: I did at one time but don’t forget we’re now talking about twenty, thirty years ago.
CB: Sure. Yeah. So when you eventually retired.
PH: Yes.
CB: What did you do?
PH: I went for an organisation that’s number ends in 5.
CB: Yes.
PH: For twenty odd years.
CB: And after that what did you do?
PH: Retired [laughs]
CB: Ok. To Milton Keynes.
PH: Yes. Well we’d already moved to Milton Keynes while I was still working in MOD. Well we lived in Amersham and we had quite an old house that wasn’t double glazed, wasn’t double skinned and it was quite cold and we couldn’t afford, well the new houses they were building in Amersham at that time I should think that the lounge was about that size, you know. Remember they went through a phase of building houses with rooms that I mean I had four kids. We couldn’t have all get in one room together.
CB: Crazy.
PH: I mean they showed you around and they had undersized beds and undersized wardrobes and Christ knows what in the various rooms because they were, they were tiny. Whereas the house we had in Amersham was, Milton Keynes was very comfortable. I like a decent sized room.
CB: Yeah.
PH: I’m a, I mean this room’s quite pleasant isn’t it, really?
CB: Yeah.
PH: Nice aspect.
CB: This is brilliant. Yeah.
PH: That balcony goes all the way around by the way.
CB: Right. And your children they left school. Then what? Any, any of them go in the forces?
PH: My eldest son went in the army for a while but then he became a policeman. He retired. He retired three years ago as a policeman. He works for an organisation that is on contract to the Home Office escorting undesirables back to their own countries. He’s been, he’s been all over the world. China, Italy, Peru. Oh God. And if you excuse me I’ll tell you. They took this rather, what’s his name, he was a China man who didn’t want to go back so he was being a bloody nuisance and they found, realised afterwards why he didn’t want to go back. He was wanted in China for something or other, being deported, escorted, they had to go via Moscow. They got to Beijing and Pete, he was in handcuffs ‘cause there were two of them with this guy in the middle in handcuffs and they got to, got to Beijing and they were met by a Chinese police lieutenant who spoke English. He’d worked, he’d served in the UK or something and he came out and he said, ‘Mr Hearmon. Yes we’ll take him.’ Pete said to him, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘He’s been a hell of a problem. We’re quite happy to leave you the handcuffs. Here’s the keys.’ ‘No. No. No. No. No.’ And he said something to this chap who went and sat meekly in a corner. And Pete said, ‘What did you say to him?’ He said to him, ‘If you don’t go and sit down and behave yourself I’ll f***ing shoot you,’ and he said, ‘I meant it Mr Hearmon and he knew I meant it.’
CB: How amusing.
PH: ’Cause the Chinese, you know.
CB: Yeah. Yeah.
PH: I mean they’d charge, they’d charge the family for the bullet or something.
CB: What did the others do?
PH: Sorry?
CB: What did the other children do?
PH: Oh well my second, well my second daughter is retired. She lives in Lincoln. My other son is also retired. He’s married to a Channel Islander and lives in Jersey. My youngest son is the only one who’s working. He’s not married and he lives in London and he’s, he comes and sees me about once every three weeks. He works for the local council. He’s in to environmental things of some sort.
CB: Right. Right.
PH: But even he’s, I mean he was born in, let’s see, ‘52, ‘56 ‘64 so I mean he’s coming up to his fifties quite soon.
CB: Your eldest son, what did he do when he was in the forces?
PH: Sorry?
CB: Your eldest son. What did he do when he went in the forces what did he do in the army?
PH: I’ve no idea. He was just in the infantry. That was all. He was just a soldier and then when he left he joined the air force, er joined the police and did twenty eight years or something in the police.
CB: Right.
PH: And he wasn’t an officer. He was just a soldier of some sort.
CB: We’ve had a really interesting discussion. Thank you very much indeed.
PH: Good.
CB: And we’ll stop it there.
PH: Good.
[Recording paused]
CB: When you were at Driffield.
PH: When I was at Driffield.
CB: Yeah.
PH: We had an instructor there called Flight Sergeant [Chalky]. This is God’s honest truth. Flight Sergeant [Chalky] double DSO DFC. Been a wing commander during the war and a friend of mine said he was, he was at the, he was the adjutant. He was in the air force. He was a National Serviceman but he became a navigator eventually as a regular but he went out. At the time he was in the secretarial branch and he was the adjutant of the reselection unit in MOD and when people, they were recruiting people back into the air force and they offered him the lowest thing they could get away with you know and this guy apparently had gone to, had gone to MOD and they said come back but we can only make you a flight sergeant. He accepted and Dave Kinsey said he should never have done because what he should have done was, ‘You must be joking.’ Gone away. A fortnight letter he’d have got a letter saying we’ve changed our mind you can come back as a flight lieutenant.
CB: Yeah.
PH: But he said yes. He was obviously desperate to get back and he was a, and he, the sad thing was he was killed as a result of a mid-air collision at Driffield at the time.
CB: Was he?
PH: Yes. And he’d gone through the war as a DSO double, wing commander double DSO. And we had DFCs and other things you know.
CB: Yeah. Pilot.
PH: Pilot yeah. Oh yeah. No. He was an instructor.
CB: I think one of the sad situations I don’t know what you’d call it the number of people who actually who were killed after the war in accidents.
PH: Well don’t forget when I joined the air force in ‘51 still there was an awful lot of ex-wartime guys still around you know with double, double medal ribbon you know. DFCs and God knows what. I mean when I was at Marham the wing commander flying there Mike Hunt, that’s right, yeah I think he was a DSO DFC you know. He’d been, he ended up as station commander at Leuchar I think at one time.
CB: Amazing.
PH: I can remember as I say at Marham there were certainly, no at , sorry there were certainly guys, Tubby Oates who took over the, I think it was Tubby Oakes, a name like that, took over 148 squadron as a wing commander. He was ex-wartime you know. Well decorated. DSOs and God knows what.
CB: Right. I think that covers a lot. Thank you.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Peter Charles Hearmon
Creator
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Chris Brockbank
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-17
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AHearmonPC1600317
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Second generation
Format
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01:17:26 audio recording
Description
An account of the resource
Peter was born in London and evacuated for part of the war. For National Service, he was taken on by the Air Force for a short time engagement and subsequently accepted a permanent commission.
After RAF Padgate, Peter was selected as pilot/gunner/engineer at RAF Hornchurch. He was posted to Number 4 Initial Training School at RAF Cranwell and then went to RAF Feltwell. He trained on Prentices and Harvards and became a pilot. RAF Driffield followed and Meteors. Afterwards at RAF Chivenor, Peter flew Vampires, which he did not particularly like.
Peter re-trained and received his navigator brevet at RAF Hullavington. He took a holding post at RAF St Mawgan, the Maritime Reconnaissance School. He trained at RAF Lindholme, Bomber Command Bombing School, on Canberras before joining 61 Squadron at RAF Wittering. He was at RAF Wittering for a year before they went to RAF Upwood.
Peter describes his overseas detachments, and outlines and contrasts visual bombing and Gee-H bombing.
For the last 18 months, he was posted to 58 Squadron at RAF Wyton as adjutant. He flew the PR.7 variant of the Canberra for photographic reconnaissance.
Peter then learnt Russian and passed the Foreign Office interpreters’ exam. He went back to fly Victors at RAF Marham as a navigator. Peter talks of Operation Forthright, flying between the UK and Cyprus bringing back Lightnings. In the UK, they practised refuelling.
Peter subsequently went to the British Commanders-in-Chief Mission to the Soviet Forces in Berlin. He took photographs in East Germany, particularly of airfields. He then went to the Ministry of Defence South American desk and worked for the Security Services before retirement.
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Devon
England--Lincolnshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Norfolk
England--Wiltshire
England--Cheshire
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Cambridgeshire
Germany
Russia (Federation)
Cyprus
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
61 Squadron
aerial photograph
aircrew
fuelling
Gee
Harvard
Meteor
military living conditions
military service conditions
navigator
perimeter track
pilot
RAF Bassingbourn
RAF Chivenor
RAF Cranwell
RAF Driffield
RAF Feltwell
RAF Hornchurch
RAF Hullavington
RAF Lindholme
RAF Marham
RAF Padgate
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Upwood
RAF Wittering
RAF Wyton
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/600/8869/PLongTCA1601.1.jpg
8d538e3525b5aa182d76ec1adb446db6
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/600/8869/ALongTCA160611.2.mp3
21e2de34cf1fb97c9dc25e4cdec626f4
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Long, Thomas Charles Arthur
T C A Long
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Long, TCA
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. An oral history interview with Pilot Officer Arthur Long (1920 - 2016, 1578331 Royal Air Force) and seven photographs, including several with his future wife, Joyce. He flew operations as a navigator with 75 Squadron.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-06-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
GB: This interview is being recorded for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Gill Barnes and the interviewee is Arthur Long. The interview is taking place at Mr Long’s home in Leicester on the 11th of June 2016. Also present is Mrs Joyce Long and my husband Andrew Barnes. Arthur, I’m really looking forward to hearing about your life and experience in the RAF. Starting at the beginning where were you born?
AL: You don’t want to go back just before that ‘cause — oh wait a minute. Before that I was in the Home Guard at Quorn.
GB: Yes. Whereabouts in England were you born though?
AL: Quorn.
GB: In Quorn. That’s right. You were telling me. Yes.
AL: Quorn. Yes. I was in the Quorn Home Guard.
GB: Right.
AL: Before that but that was while I was working at the Brush at Loughborough designing buses, tramcars.
GB: Were you an engineer?
AL: I was a draughtsman.
GB: Right.
AL: Designing body work of buses and tramcars for Blackpool, Leicester and people, places like that.
GB: That’s right.
AL: London too.
GB: And where did you go to college to learn that?
AL: Loughborough College. I didn’t go daytime.
GB: Right.
AL: I went night school to Loughborough College.
GB: Right.
AL: Passed my National Certificate.
JL: Higher.
AB: Higher National Certificate.
AL: That was when I was working at the Brush and I was on a reserved occupation.
GB: Right. And about what time was that? What year roughly?
AL: ’41.
JL: 1940.
AL: Sorry?
JL: 1940.
AL: Around about 1940.
GB: 1940.
JL: ’39/38.
GB: Ok.
AL: Yes.
GB: And did you go to school in Leicester?
AL: I beg your pardon?
GB: Did you go to school in Leicester?
AL: Yes. It was just an ordinary school. No. In Quorn.
GB: In Quorn.
AL: In Quorn.
GB: Yes.
AL: But I did night school in Loughborough College.
GB: Right.
AL: And took my National Certificate there.
GB: Yes.
AL: I was in the middle of the Advanced National Certificate when I volunteered ‘cause I volunteered you see.
GB: Yes.
AL: That being an reserved occupation — that my friends were all in the army or were serving. Been called. So I thought something had to be done about this man Hitler. He was running rife.
GB: Yes.
AL: And my friends in Quorn, a lot of my friends in Quorn.
GB: And what —
AL: And that was at the time I met up with Joyce.
GB: Right. Where we —
JL: ’41.
AL: We were both in the same choir at the same church.
GB: Oh gosh.
AL: And in the Youth Club too at Loughborough, at Loughborough Baxter Gate Church.
GB: Right.
AL: About that all about that same time.
GB: Yes.
AL: The 1940s.
GB: And what drew you to join the RAF as opposed to the other services?
AL: Well you had to. To get out of a reserved occupation. I wanted to join the RAF but you couldn’t get out of a reserved occupation unless you joined the RAF and so and crew. RAF as a crew member. So I was put on the reserves. I got a reserve badge as a volunteer reserve and I had to go to Birmingham to get a medical and then I was put on the reserve for about six months. They didn’t take you straight away. Anyway, that is when they, I was finally called up to ACRC. Lord’s Cricket Ground, London.
GB: Yes.
AL: And that was, this photograph is of, at St John’s Wood just outside Lord’s Cricket Ground. You know it.
GB: I know it.
AL: We used to eat at the Zoo [laughs] and we used to go, used to march from St John’s Wood to the Zoo cafeteria and the apes would start howling and we helped them along. The boys did of course. We were woken up very early at St John’s Wood by bashing dustbin lids to waken everybody up. It was still dark. We had a lantern at the front and marched down to there for breakfast at Lords, at er the Zoo. So that was my first experience.
GB: And what did you learn there? What were they, what was the training?
AL: Oh no training. Purely, purely medicals and things like that.
GB: Oh right.
AL: Aircrew. ACRC is Aircraft Recruitment Centre. It’s just a recruitment centre.
AB: Yeah.
AL: Now I was sent on to Newquay then. ITW at Newquay and Newquay we were there that’s where we started our training in navigation, astrology, [pause] communication.
GB: Yeah.
AL: By Aldiss lamp and —
GB: Did you choose to become a navigator?
AL: No. Now there’s a story behind that. Quite a story. We get to that because I was sent on from there er trying to remember exactly where we went but I did most of my training in Canada. Went over on the Queen Elizabeth on its own. Not a convoy. It zigzagged across the Atlantic and one day we found ourselves getting quite warm and had gone quite south to miss the U-boats.
AB: Gosh.
AL: And we finally finished up at Halifax way up north and got the, got the train down. Got our first orange, taste of oranges. [Laughs]. We had that for some time. And went down to Moncton which was another holding station. Very cold there but the people were nice at Moncton. If you went to a church in Moncton you got invited to their families. Well, wherever we went, if you went to a church you were invited to a family. Of course we finished up at Quebec. I was invited there as well. But when Churchill was there at Quebec with Stalin and various at Chateau Frontenac in Quebec and we, that takes me into the start of our training because we went on a bombing and gunnery course as an observer not as a navigator. They started and this became strengthened as you will find later on. I went to, I forget, I’ve got the names of the places down here but, there was, [pause] I don’t know what it was called.
GB: Why did they send you to Canada to train?
AL: I’m trying to think of the names of the places I was at in Canada. There was that. Oh. Oh it was at. Oh. Oh that was Monkton that was so it was after that. Air Observer. RC. Royal Canadian Air Force. Number 8 Air Observer’s Course. Oh that was until, now that was Quebec.
GB: Right.
AL: Where I got my observer badge which was sent in by a Princess Julianna of the Netherlands. Now Princess Juliana became Queen.
GB: Yes.
AL: And that was because there was quite a lot of Dutchmen on that course that I was taking. That was training in navigation. Everything, everything to do with being an observer and as an observer you had to be, it was a Coastal Command thing. Anyway, it was Princess Julianna of the Netherlands who presented me with my brevet and we —
GB: Were there many English people being trained in Canada?
AL: Yes. Oh yes. In Quebec. Yes. They were English people and they were very nice. Very helpful. We were supposed to be reviewed by Winston Churchill himself but he couldn’t get away so he sent his daughter Sarah Churchill. So she reviewed us which was a bit of a let-down.
GB: Where did you do your officer training?
AL: I beg your pardon?
GB: Where did you do your officer training? To become a pilot officer.
AL: I became a pilot, now that’s a [laughs] that comes a bit later because —
GB: Right.
AL: The RAF, after my operations which I’ve got yet to talk about, after the operations I was seconded to BOAC, British Overseas Airways Corporation to start it up. Nobody had heard of BOAC. They thought I was in the French Navy when I wore their uniform. It was dark blue. So, anyway, I went with BOAC for twelve months and while I was training at Ossington air force, Ossington Training School for a first class navigator’s certificate the RAF’s certificate wasn’t enough for BOAC. I had to train for first class navigator’s certificate which difference being mainly concentration on —
JL: Stars.
AL: On the stars.
AB: Astronomy.
AL: Astrology.
AB: That’s it.
AL: Being using a sextant and everything and astrology. I know I had to, with, with BOAC I think one of the earliest days out our computer went. Not computer, compass. My compass went. I had to correct it, our course by taking sextant shots of the sun.
AB: Yes.
AL: To get us back on course.
AB: Ok.
That was when we were flying down the Gold Coast. I think we had to cross Africa but that was during BOAC. That was after.
GB: Yeah.
AL: I was in the air force. So, after the air force I came back on the Mauritania. Going out on the Elizabeth we were in cabins but in the Mauritania coming back we were in the hold in hammocks and that again was a long journey zigzagging back to England. Dropped us at Liverpool. Now, when we landed at, when we were over in America er in Canada I did a hitch hike down to America and back and I bought Joyce a ring.
GB: Oh.
AL: I, to be sure, make it safe I hung it around my neck. I’m glad I did because the other things that I brought as gifts back, I brought them back to Liverpool and the stevedores — and Liverpool, doesn’t hold any good memories for me — Liverpool, the stevedores broke my knapsack open and stole the gifts that I’d brought but they couldn’t steal that ring because I’d got it around my neck. Anyway, we landed. Again, another bad mark for Liverpool was we, it was Christmas and we were due to go Christmas leave and they said, ‘Oh we’re going to make you navigators.’ We said, ‘No. You can’t. We passed out as observers.’ ‘Well we won’t let you go on leave unless you put up your navigator badge you see. So what could we do? We [un-? ] the observer’s badge, put on the navigator badge. Got our leave put the observers badge back on again and went home. [laughs] Got our leave. Anyway, that —
GB: Was there any more training?
AL: A bad, bad mark for Liverpool.
GB: Absolutely. Was there any more training after that, Arthur?
AL: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. We had to go to Halfpenny Green.
JL: Lincolnshire.
AL: For training to jump with a parachute. You jumped off a high platform so that was that sort of thing. Now when we were at Moncton in, in Canada we tried to build up an unofficial navigation course but they were more interested in doing [calls?] like helping at the infirmary and if you had to go to a hospital that had medics on Moncton Centre. You had to walk way up in the freezing weather [laughs]. Anyway, it was quite an experience. Twenty five degrees below I think it was. Very cold.
GB: How long —
AL: I was on duty at Moncton once and you had a brazier. You could always put your hand in it it was so cold. Anyway, that was at Moncton. And I’ve jumped on a bit. I was at a bombing and gunnery school at another place which I’ve forgotten the name of. No. I can’t remember. My memory goes. It’s so bad.
AL: That’s —
GB: But then we went on to Wing which was where we crewed up. At Wing. And there I think we did our first flight over over Germany or somewhere. It could have been Poland. I forget where but we dropped leaflets. Leaflets for —
AB: Propaganda.
AL: Yes. What do you call it? One was in Polish and one was in German I think.
GB: Oh right. Yeah.
AL: I don’t whether —
JL: Propaganda.
GB: Absolutely.
JL: Propaganda leaflets. Never mind.
GB: So that was your first experience of flying on a mission.
AL: That was, that was first crewed up experience.
GB: Yes. How did you come to —
AL: Harry. Harry Tweed.
GB: Ok.
AL: He was Henry Tweed really but we all knew him as Harry.
GB: Right. How did you come to join 75 Squadron?
AL: Well that was, that was that was part of, that’s when we were at Wing.
GB: Right.
AL: We were at Wing then. Of course when you crew up you are given a choice of postings. And so we talked it over among, among ourselves and the only one that we could think of was at Mepal which was our rear gunner’s, tail-end-Charlie’s, his home was near Mepal.
GB: Yeah.
AL: And that was, that was 75 Squadron at Mepal.
GB: It was. Yes.
AL: It’s been in the news lately I think.
GB: Yes.
AL: They found a skull there in a quarry there I think or something.
GB: 75 flew a number of aeroplanes. They started, well they had a phase of flying Wellingtons and then they went on Lancasters.
AL: That’s right. Well we went straight on to Lancasters.
GB: Right.
AL: So I was in A Squadron. We’ve got that photograph of B, we’ve got a big photograph of B Squadron but we didn’t seem to get one of A Squadron. So I wasn’t on that.
GB: And who was in your crew?
AL: Did what?
GB: Who was in your crew?
AL: Well there was Harry Tweed was the pilot. Benjy was the mid upper gunner. Benjamin. We called him Benjy.
GB: Yes.
AL: They’re in there I think.
GB: Yes.
AL: Complete with names. There was, I sat at, you know how it is to get into a Lancaster. Well, laden with sextant and maps you had to, you got into the aircraft alright but then you had to climb up, clamber over the D spar. You more or less fell over the D spar. It’s about this high you got over. Next to the pilot.
AB: Right.
AL: There’s a pilot, there’s an engineer, all the names is down there and I forget them.
GB: That’s fine.
AL: They’re all written down in there.
GB: Yes.
AL: And then there was the tail-end-Charlie was, his father was a farmer and we used to go to his house and they used to lay on dances and things. They were very very good. So we used to, I had a motorbike then and they had a car. The rest of the crew had a car. They would go off in the car and I would follow up with the motorbike or whatever. [They would away?]. That was very helpful.
GB: Ultimately 75 Squadron went on to become a New Zealand Squadron. Were there any —
AL: Well I thought it was always a New Zealand Squadron.
GB: Oh right. Ok. So were they, were you, were there any New Zealanders in your –?
AL: And the reason why it was a New Zealand Squadron. We joined it, 75, we had one New Zealander in the crew.
GB: Right.
AL: That was the bomb aimer. Alan John.
GB: Right.
AL: The bomb aimer. And he was Shorty. We used to call him Shorty and he didn’t like that [laughs]. Anyway, he liked to think he was good but he wasn’t that good.
GB: So what year are we now? You’ve got your crew. You’re flying Lancasters. Roughly what year was that?
AL: Forty. Oh my logbook’s upstairs. It’s down in there.
GB: Ok.
AL: It’s in my logbook but that was, when I when I was at Ossington at training for, it was, Dunkirk. No it couldn’t have been. No. No. No. No. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Dunkirk. [Pause]. My, my could you get my logbook from upstairs? You know where it is. Dunkirk is when we had the end of our, my flying on ops. Or was it the beginning? No. It could have been the beginning. It could have been the beginning of my ops and that’s when we were bombing gun sights in France near Calais to help the evacuation. I’ll be able to give you a better date when Joyce gets my book. But I’m pretty sure that was one of, one of my earlier operational flights. Yeah. Here we are. Here. Do you see? It won’t take long. You had to enter it in your logbook. You had to enter all your operational flights in red. So here we are. Daylight operation at Calais on the September the 15th ‘44. That was, yes ‘44 was daylight operation. Calais gun emplacements. Again. Gun emplacements.
GB: So that was, that would have been after the landings. D-day landings.
AL: No.
GB: Before.
AL: Evacuation this is.
GB: Oh right.
AL: Dunkirk. Not D-Day.
GB: No.
AL: D-day happened, I think, while I was at BOAC. No. This was, this was the evacuation of our troops from France and from which I’ve just received a Legion d’Honneures medal for that and that’s in the front. I got, I only got that recently. I’ve, I have rung the Association, the RAF Association to ask them how you display it but they haven’t replied. I don’t know which order you put it relative to your other medals ‘cause I’ve got a row of other medals as well but —
GB: So you and Harry Tweed are flying Lancaster bombers.
AL: Yeah.
GB: Where were your missions taking you?
AL: All over the Ruhr mainly. Well that one was France but and it was, it was our first flights actually but then we went on from daylight [Coln/Kohlen?] Stuttgart, Essen [Weskapau?] Cologne Duisburg [pause] Daylights. Sollingen. Sollingen, Koblenz, Dortmund. Daylight at Cologne. Oh. That’s where we got shot at quite a lot. Got holes [laughs]. [unclear?] and interestingly during that period we had to do, at home we had to do a fighter affiliation flight when they developed the radar and we were two of the aircraft in the Squadron were fitted with the radar. Ours was one of them and you had radar and you had the other radio beam navigation. That was where it was quite different to BOAC because BOAC was mainly stars. You didn’t have the radar etcetera which were only lease-lend Dakotas that we flew in.
GB: Yes.
AL: With BOAC.
GB: Harry, I can see there are so —
AL: Ahem.
GB: Sorry Arthur I can see there are so many missions there.
AL: Pardon?
GB: There were a lot of missions and sorties.
AL: Oh well we were hard pressed. Flying every, yes we did it very quickly. Between our first mission was in September 20th 1944 and my last one was —
JL: January.
AL: December.
JL: ’45.
AL: 29th also in ‘44.
GB: Oh right.
AL: So I remember we were on the thousand bomber raids. Do you remember there was a particular raid called the thousand bomber raid? We were part of that and —
GB: Were you going up almost every night?
AL: Went, went twice one night. Off twice. Very very pressurised. Very pressurised.
GB: Mainly from where?
AL: Mainly night time but some daytime.
GB: And mainly from which base?
AL: From Mepal.
GB: Mepal. All Mepal.
AL: All my operations were from Mepal.
GB: Right. And did you have any scary moments? Any difficult times?
AL: Oh yeah. Well most of them were.
GB: Yes. Silly question I’m sorry.
AL: As I say once we counted the holes in the aircraft from flak.
AL: Flak.
GB: But one, one difficult time in particular was nothing to do with the Germans. We went on, over and as you can see it was turning cold in late winter and we’d been over, I don’t know where it was, we’d been over somewhere. Harry was a very good pilot. He held it steady all the way through. It didn’t matter what was happening around. I I happened to look, be able to look out. I couldn’t look out often because I had to plan for the next leg and out but on one occasion I looked out ahead. Saw one of our people I knew, aeroplane shot down. Exploded in the air. Shot down. But on this particular occasion we were coming back home and we suddenly discovered one of the bombs had frozen in its hooks. It hadn’t gone and it was rolling around. I think it couldn’t have been a very big bomb. It was rolling around in our —
JL: Hold.
AB: Bomb bay. Yeah.
AL: Undercarriage
AB: Undercarriage. Yeah.
AL: In our, oh my memory goes on words.
JL: Hold.
AL: Anyway, if you’re relying on my memory you’re not on a very good thing. My memory’s not very good. Not now. Anyway, we managed to jettison it over the English Channel. So, hopefully, it was, when Harry gave the command to jettison, open the flaps, open the flaps, that’s it. Bomb doors. Open the bomb doors sorry. You don’t open the flaps, you just up and down. Opened the bomb doors I’m pretty sure he’d make sure it was fairly clear down below when he did but that was a scary time. [laughs]
GB: Were you more afraid of flak or the Luftwaffe?
AL: Pardon?
GB: Were you more afraid of flak or the Luftwaffe?
AL: Oh loads of flak. Always. Every time. You had to fly through it. And if, if you were above if you didn’t maintain the height they’d told you you’d got to do. If you went above to get out of it you were put on a court martial. Yeah. So you had to stay in that line and Harry did. He, he’d got a nerve of steel and he went straight through. He was very good. Very good you see. And none of our crew. Alan John, the bomb aimer is still alive I think. The others aren’t and he’s in New Zealand. I’ve been over there to New Zealand since. We’ve been twice actually. I’ve got relations over there too.
GB: Did you see any Messerschmitts 109s?
AL: Well I’m sure the gunners did. I didn’t see much.
GB: No.
AL: I had my head down in front of the D spar. Head down. Keep, keeping ahead of the aircraft. I always had to be ahead, ahead of the aircraft so I had my head well and truly down. I could feel it. I could hear it. But you could hear our gunners saying, ‘Over there.’ ‘What’s that?’ ‘Harry, there’s a fighter over there,’ or something like that but we had our helmets on and we could hear it. I could hear it going, all going on. Even when the flak hit the plane you could hear it but never, I couldn’t see very much.
GB: How did you know when they had dropped the string of bombs?
AL: I I gave Harry the next course and as soon as he said, ‘Bombs gone,’ Harry was off on the next course. I think I wrote it down if I remember right. I plotted it for the next course back.
GB: Did you try to fly over the sea as much as you could to get home?
AL: Over the sea?
GB: Yes.
AL: Oh no. Straight across the English channel.
GB: Right.
AL: No. The most time we spent crossing over the sea was a different occasion because on a different occasion we laid mines in the Baltic and we had to go out at sea level over over Norway and Sweden. That direction. And they used to fire. I don’t know what happened but we were way up by the time we got there but right across the sea we were at sea level and we went into the Baltic and this is where we used radar. Towns came up as blobs and I, the bomb aimer was supposed to navigate me by the screen where these blobs were but he didn’t. I had to do it myself. And the other thing I had to do was aim for a headland in the Baltic on a certain course. Give Harry a certain course after we’d taken a fix as to where we were. After a certain course head for a headland and then I had to tell him every so many seconds or, yeah, seconds to drop a mine and at the same time I had to take a photograph of the screen to, so that when I got back they knew.
AB: A record.
AL: Exactly where they were dropped. So I had to do all this. It was, it was pressurised I can tell you. You were always ahead of the aircraft. You had to be ahead of the aircraft. You had to tell them what to do at what time and which heading.
GB: Everything depended on you.
AL: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. Very much so. And take this photograph at the same time. Click with the camera.
GB: Did you —
AL: I never found out. I could never, the trouble was getting back to base they never showed you what your efforts were and I never did find out but I only concluded that when they recommended me for BOAC that I must have did ok because they must have [recorded?] and that was when they gave me my, I was at Ossington training for my First Class Navigation Certificate when I received my commission.
GB: Right.
AL: Notification.
GB: Yes.
AL: It wasn’t until after I was in BOAC that I got the [laughs]. I was then called a navigation officer by BOAC. I’d been that since I’d passed out.
GB: Yes. What was the social life like at Mepal?
AL: Well only when we went to the rear gunner’s home. There was no social life otherwise. I remember sleeping in barrack er in Nissen huts but social life I can’t remember.
GB: When you were waiting to fly were you all in one hut or one place?
AL: No. No. You had to go to, [pause] you had to go up into the airfield and you were briefed. That was the only time when you came together. The crew were more or less together but with other people you were briefed and then that was fairly short. And the same when you got back. You were debriefed. When you got back from an operation you were debriefed. Yes. I can’t —
GB: Did you, did you meet up with your crew socially apart from –?
AL: After, after the war.
GB: Yes. Right.
AL: Yes. Post war. One of them got married. Oh Harry got married I think, to a Welsh lady, Harry did and they came over to that. We got together. Mostly most of the crew got together. I don’t think the upper gunner. He seemed to be a loner for some reason after the war. During the war he wasn’t a loner because he used to hang around with the rest of the crew but I know I did dance but if they went to a dance I used to stay at the rear gunner’s home. He’d got, they’d got children so I used to entertain the kids. The kids.
GB: So —
AL: But they’re all, they’ve all passed on.
GB: Did you always fly in the same planes or did your plane change –?
AL: No. We finished up in C for Charlie.
GB: Right.
AL: But I think they had a different plane now and again but it was always A Squadron. But I can’t, I can’t remember what other. It’s got the name of the aircraft in my logbook here.
He was a Flight Sergeant Tweed then. I think he became a, he got his commission and went on. Lancaster 3 AAJ. That was the first flight. Lancaster C DKE. That’s an F. It may an E. No, it’s an F I think. I flew in different aircraft but C we finished quite a few. C for Charlie. I do remember that. CCC. I went on B there. It must have been B. But that was B. The photograph is B Squadron.
GB: Was it cold in the plane?
AL: Yes. But we wore goon suits as they called them. Goon suits. Silk gloves. Yes. Well, well protected. Excuse me. We were well protected. Yes, it was cold and it was noisy. That’s, that’s a product of the noisy plane both in RAF and BOAC because BOAC were Dakotas. Lease lend Dakotas and they were noisy too.
GB: So —
AL: Nothing like flying today.
GB: No. So in 1944 you’d been flying on Lancasters.
AL: Yeah.
GB: And then how did the link happen to BOAC?
AL: How did what?
GB: What made you join BOAC?
AL: Oh [laughs] well they came. After that tour, the last tour, they called me into the flight office and said, ‘We’ve got a posting. Would you, would you like it?’ I said, ‘What is it?’ And they said, ‘Well it’s a, it’s for a private airline trying to bring back to life again.’ It was British Airways before I think. Or something.
AB: BEA wasn’t it?
AL: But it was BOAC by the time I joined. British Overseas Aircraft and they had a, so, well I said, ‘I’ve never heard of them but I’ll try it.’ [laughs] So they said. ‘No. You’ll have to go on a course to get a First Class Navigators Certificate.’ I thought, ‘Ok.’ I was on that for a short time. It’s all on there. All my BOAC flights as well.
GB: What? You were flying Dakotas. Where did you go? Was it commercial?
AL: Cairo a lot. West Coast of Africa down to Accra. Down to Lagos. Used to swap planes at Accra or Lagos and then fly across Africa to, to, what’s in North Africa. North Africa and Sudan. And then, I know I’ve been in locust plagues and things when we got there. And we even got a basket, a laundry basket upstairs which I brought back from on the way to Cairo. But then on, [pause] I was twenty years doing that and towards the end of that year I was down in Cairo and the day before we were getting married on June the 22nd which is coming up. The day before we were getting married I was down in Malta and got stuck there because with Dakotas we didn’t have pressurised aircraft so you couldn’t get over the Alps back home and I was wondering whether I was going to get back in time but we did. The weather lifted and I got back home the day before.
JL: I know you did.
GB: And that was 1945.
JL: Six.
GB: Oh ‘46
AL: Yeah. I brought back bananas and things and oranges for our wedding which they’d never had. Yeah so —
GB: The first civil aircraft to land at Sweden.
AL: I was demobbed after that.
GB: He didn’t mention that.
AL: It was after that that I was demobbed. After we were married I did one flight didn’t I?
JL: Yeah.
AL: One flight from Bristol. I flew. I had to stay, with BOAC I had to stay at home in Quorn and they would send a telegram saying please report for duty. So I had to go down the day before. I had, I had to rent a room in Bristol. I hadn’t permanently near Clifton Bridge and I had to go back there and they go to Bristol airfield and where there was a plane which took us. The plane. A Dakota I think, I think it was which took us down to Bournemouth. We picked up our passengers at Bournemouth. Now one of the flights I went on, you’ve probably never heard of this but there was a Lancastrian built. It was a Lancaster with only twelve seats. It was a VIP plane. A VIP Lancaster with portholes down the sides and I had to navigate that from, from Bournemouth to Karachi and we only had one stop. Tel Aviv. We, every other flight we did we had to keep putting down to get fuel. Refuel, with Dakotas but with this Lancastrian it did Tel Aviv and then Karachi. Quite, quite a long and the same coming back so it was quite a long quite a long flight.
GB: When you —
AL: And it never flew again. I don’t think. The Lancastrian.
GB: When you were flying the Dakotas were you mainly flying passengers or cargo or both?
AL: Passengers.
GB: Passengers.
AL: Always passengers. Any cargo, not much cargo. We got cargo, a bit of cargo coming back with a few bits and pieces the crew had picked up on the way back.
JL: What about your first trip to Sweden. When you went you were the first civilian airline to land at Sweden at Ahlberg.
GB: You flew to Sweden.
JL: Oh you say it.
GB: You flew to Sweden I believe with BOAC.
AL: Yes. Yes. I did. Yeah. With BOAC. A flight to Sweden. I’ve got a picture in there of the plane. It had to land at Aalborg with a forced landing.
GB: Oh right.
AL: And Aalborg in Denmark and we were the first civil plane to land in Denmark after the war.
GB: Wow.
AL: But it was the forced landing. We had to. So we stayed in Aalborg for two or three days. For a few days while waiting for a part to be flown from England.
GB: When you were demobbed did you want to stay in flying or navigating?
AL: Well BOAC asked me. I said, ‘Well I’ve got a profession to go back to because I’m a road transport designer.’ And I finished up designing motor cars at Rootes. Rootes [Humber] Hllman, Sunbeam-Talbot and finished up with Peugeot. I’m still, they’re still, I’ve a Peugeot pension [laughs]. Anyway, no they asked me would I stay on and I said well I’ve a profession to go to and I’m fed up with living out of a suitcase. So I said, ‘I want to get my feet back down on the ground,’ and so came back to Longwall Green.
JL: Bristol.
AL: Coachworks designing luxury buses and tradesmen’s vehicles that you know, that went around carrying goods around.
GB: Yes. So you lived in —
AL: That was all [timber?] work but then I came, I got fed up with the manager at that place eventually. The chap at the top was very nice but the manager he had a foul mouth and I couldn’t put up with him so I said, ‘I’m leaving.’ I told him, ‘I’m leaving,’ and I came back to Leicester to build aluminium built, with, what’s the name?
JL: Castles.
AL: Castles. Castles. Yes. They, they did display vehicles. They did display vehicles. Fire engines I designed, which I designed for them. Again I wasn’t really too happy there and I got worried about Rootes. They were on a better pay than I was at Rootes Group for and I was there for many years.
GB: Gosh.
AL: Well until I retired.
GB: Yes.
AL: It wasn’t Rootes. They sold that to the Chrysler.
GB: That’s right.
AL: I was with Chrysler.
GB: Yes.
AL: Designing for them. I went over to America. Did take a big full size layout of one of the cars that we, that we draughted, put on to draught. The models took [points off ?] big clay models and gave it to us. We drafted it and then I took this big roll, big as a car and took it over to Detroit and then they sold out to Peugeot Citroen and I finished up at Peugeot Citroen. That’s where, I retired in France.
GB: Oh. Did you live in France at all?
AL: For a year. Yes. I used to fly back home. When I say I lived there. Not, not really but I I was —
GB: You worked.
AL: In France for a year and Joyce came over for my retirement party at St Germaine.
GB: Lovely. Good. So, when, Arthur when you think back to flying those Lancaster, flying in those Lancasters do you have any particular highlight memories? Any really difficult missions?
AL: Well only the one with the, (pause) I took it in my stride really. I didn’t, as I say I had my head most of the time.
GB: Yes.
AL: But the time that we’d got the bomb rolling around underneath. That was a nasty nasty moment but I was trying to think. At Mepal I think I knew a family or two in Mepal. We used to go out but mainly to the one, mainly, which was a little way away mainly with the rear gunner’s home.
GB: Yes.
AL: Yeah.
GB: And 75 Squadron then had the New Zealand connection. And that, did that continue?
AL: It’s always. That’s how I always knew it.
GB: Yes.
AL: I always knew it as 75NZ.
GB: Right.
AL: I never knew at as no other.
GB: Yes.
AL: It was always 75NZ.
GB: Yes. And were you proud to be a member of that Squadron?
JL: I don’t think you thought about it.
AL: Well as much as I was proud to be of the RAF.
GB: Yeah. Yeah.
AL: As a whole. [Laughs]
GB: Yes.
AL: Yes. But as I say —
JL: Just got on with it.
GB: Yeah.
AL: The only thing that I was sad about was seeing the crew that I knew fairly well shot down in front of us over one, one of the targets and I forget which target it was.
GB: Yeah.
AL: But I remember it being shot down and they didn’t return. Like a lot of the others didn’t.
GB: Yes. Well thank you very much for that Arthur.
AL: But if if —
JL: Kettle on. I’m sure you could do with a cup of tea.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Thomas Charles Arthur Long
Creator
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Gill Barnes
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-06-11
Format
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00:57:08 audio recording
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ALongTCA160611
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Canadian Air Force
Civilian
Description
An account of the resource
Thomas Charles Arthur Long was born in Quorn, England. He was in the Home Guard and worked at Brush as a draughtsman, also gaining a Higher National Certificate from Loughborough College. He decided to join the RAF being that the only way to get out a reserved occupation. He was on the reserve for months and eventually sent to Aircraft Recruitment Centre at Lord’s Cricket Ground / St John’s Wood. He was then post on to Newquay Initial Training Wing, followed by training in Canada in Halifax and Moncton. Recollects Winston Churchill at the First Quebec Conference, and provides details of training on a bombing and gunnery course as a Royal Canadian Air Force observer. Badge was presented by Princess Julianna of the Netherlands since many Dutchmen where on the course, and Sarah Churchill also attended the ceremony. Upon returning to Great Britain, he retrained as navigator at RAF Halfpenny Green, Lincolnshire and crewed up with 75 Squadron at RAF Mepal on Lancasters. He went on operations over Germany dropping propaganda leaflets, bombing Calais gun emplacements, Kohlen, Stuttgart, Essen, Cologne, Duisburg, Solingen, Koblenz and Dortmund. Discusses social life and keeping in touch with the crew post war, mine laying, anti-aircraft damage, jettisoning stuck bomb over the English Channel, flying conditions and military ethos. After the last tour, he was offered the chance of being a navigator in the BOAC British Overseas Airways Corporation, flying to various locations in Europe, Africa and Middle East including a VIP Lancastrian trip. He got married, demobilised in 1946, and went to work a motor cars designers with Rootes, Castles, Hillman, Sunbeam-Talbot, Peugeot and Chrysler
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Lincolnshire
England--Staffordshire
Canada
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia--Halifax
New Brunswick--Moncton
Germany
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
Germany--Köhlen
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Essen
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Solingen
Germany--Koblenz
Germany--Dortmund
England--Newquay
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
75 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
Bombing and Gunnery School
Churchill, Winston (1874-1965)
civil defence
crewing up
demobilisation
Home Guard
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancastrian
military ethos
military service conditions
mine laying
navigator
observer
propaganda
RAF Halfpenny Green
RAF Mepal
recruitment
training
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/606/8875/PMayBJ1601.2.jpg
67eb022aee54727f792c196613e31254
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/606/8875/AMayBJ161123.1.mp3
bca779d86d0b95dbcb09fc34a07901c7
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
May, Ben John
B J May
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
May, BJ
Description
An account of the resource
Three items. An oral history interview with Ben May (1925 -2018, 1894955 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a flight engineer with 420 Squadron. Also includes a short memoir and a photograph.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Ben May and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
CJ: This is Chris Johnson, and I am interviewing Ben May today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive. We’re at Ben’s home near Canterbury and it is Wednesday the 23rd of November 2016. Thank you very much Ben for agreeing to talk to me today. So, we’ll move onto the first er question Ben if we may. Perhaps you could tell us where and when you were born, please, and what your family background is?
BM: Well, it’s my birthday today, and I’m ninety-one today. So, I was born in 1925 at Birchington in Kent. Now the family lived in East Kent, because my father worked for the local gas company, and er, as I grew up I tended to go that way and my first job was in the forge in the gas works, blowing the bellows, for fifteen bob a week. [laughs] I sort of grew up in the gas works atmosphere and I worked there until I was called up. I was a fitter’s mate there and we did all sorts of things. All sorts of maintenance, on all the equipment in the gas works, which is not terribly interesting but, er, very dusty and dirty. However, I was called up in, er, when was it. [turning over papers] Can you stop for a minute?
CJ: So Ben you were, we got as far as you telling me when it was you were called up. What happened then?
BM: I was a member of the ATC for many years.
CJ: So you were called up when was it?
BM: I was called up in 1944 as a flight engineer under training. I volunteered as a flight engineer and er, the first posting was to Locking, in Cornwall. Sorry Locking in Somerset after ITW in Cornwall. That was very interesting, standing on the cliffs doing signalling [laugh] in the wind. And then my next posting was to St Athan, number 4 School of Technical Training, where I started on the one-year long flight engineer course. Um. At the end of that I passed out on my nineteenth birthday and, er, I can’t read that [?] I’ll do it from, and, er, went down to— I am sorry I got stuck.
CJ: So Ben you were telling me about your training period?
BM: Yes after a couple of years in the ATC in Margate I found myself, I had volunteered for aircrew by then of course. All aircrew were volunteers and, er, I was called up in 1944 and went up to the Recruiting Office in Chatham. [laugh] Where they gave you a cup of tea and a biscuit and said ‘Well done, we’ll call you when we’re ready.’ So they called me up in 1944 and I was sent down to Locking in – down to Cornwall, for initial training, and then onto Locking in Somerset for the first part of the course, and then eventually onto St Athan in South Wales for the 4 Flight Engineer Course, which lasted about a year. There we were taught not only the fundamentals of flying, but also about engines and all the other equipment. You would be amazed the amount of different pieces equipment that are on a bomber. Learned about compressors and filters, and all sorts of bits of gear you wouldn’t even think about. One little joke I play on people. I ask them if they’ve ever heard of changing gear in an aeroplane, and they laugh at you, they say ‘You can’t change gear in an aeroplane.’ But the fact is you can, because there is the two-speed gearbox on the, on the supercharger of the Hercules engine which we flew with, and as you climb the air pressure outside drops away and then you have to change gear on the supercharger. So it always raises a smile when you say you’re changing gear on an aeroplane. Anyway, we learned all about the different systems. Can I stop a minute and start again?
CJ: So Ben you were posted to St Athan for more training. Would you like to tell us what happened from then on?
BJ: That was No. 4 School of Technical Training. It’s a one–year course for flight engineers, and you go through just about every part of the aero – by then you were what they called type cast, type trained. You were selected for one of the four aircraft. There was the Halifax, the Lancaster, the Stirling and the Sunderland which we were being trained for. So you were selected for one of those and in my case it was the Halifax. So, everything on the Halifax was of interest to you and we went on this one–year course, which took just about every part of the Halifax aeroplane and explained it to you. Not only explained it to you, drilled it into you, you had to learn every part of it. What every bit was for and how to maintain them and so on when you were away from base and what to do, you know. There was an awful lot to learn and, er, that took about a whole year to learn that, and, er, and, er, after which I was posted away to a squadron which was Number 420 Squadron which was one of the Royal Canadian Air Force squadrons. It would come over here, they’d brought over a lot of aircrews which were, which were short of a flight engineer, because the Canadians didn’t train any flight engineers, and so as, when the crews came through they selected some of us. They literally dumped us in it, they said, about twelve of us and this bunch of Canadians came along and started crewing up with somebody you know. Very embarrassing that was sitting around waiting for somebody to pick you. But this tall guy came along, asked for me. He’d been reading the notes I think, [laughs] the examination notes and saw something he liked. And so he came and asked for me. I said ‘Well I don’t know any of you, it’s all the same to me so I might as well join your crew.’ And I’m glad I did because they were marvellous, absolutely wonderful guys. And so, we were crewed up and went to further training then. Eh, [pause] I’m sorry I’m getting lost. When we got our crew we embarked on a load of long flights, long training flights. Like a flight from Yorkshire up to Edinburgh and then back down to Cornwall then back home again. So we got some really good experience on long flights, which entail an awful lot of different things to a short flight, where you have to manage the fuel because on the Halifax there were fourteen fuel tanks, and fuel had to be used in a certain order and then some overload tanks pumped from one tank into another and so as to make it go as far as possible. So it was, it was a busy, flight engineer was a busy job, you were always on the go doing something. You had to read all your instruments every twenty minutes, record them or every half an hour. All the oil pressures and the fuel pressures and the cylinder head temperatures and so on, keep a good eye out on your engines. And er, you know, we gelled together as a crew, and we became very good friends. In fact they’ve all been to my house here, all my Canadian friends and I’ve been to all their houses in Canada. So we were really good friends and I suppose that helped us get through the war really. Anyway we were, after a bit more training we were posted to a squadron which was the same as the Canadian squadron, and we went on operations from there. Our first operation was a little town in the Ruhr. We got through that alright and we felt a lot better then, after the first one. But we carried on flying to the end of the war, managed to get – must have been eleven or twelve flights in over Germany, and, er, you know, well we got, looked forward to life out of the flying. I’m sorry I’m not doing very well. [Appears to be a little upset]
CJ: It’s alright.
BM: Life on a squadron is quite different from anything else in the service because there’s a different atmosphere about it. And eh you all know that you’re doing a dangerous job and you might not be here tomorrow was the general feeling, but eh, we settled in quite well, because the Canadians were very hospitable people. They never left me behind when they went out for a drink at night, I was always there with them and they were good mates. We em, [pause] we, we spent a lot of time [pause] talking about, about home. Because home for them was Canada, it was quite different from anything else I’ve seen at that time and er. [pause] And I will tell you something about a typical day on the squadron, eh? Life on the squadron was ruled by daily routine orders and you had to go down to the notice board every day and have a look because woe betide you if you missed something. If ops were on there was an almost palpable atmosphere around the Station because everybody knew that we would be flying that night, so we’d go to the briefing and er, depending whether it was a day or night operation could be late in the day or at mid-day sometimes, and you’d go back to the hut and have a, write your last letters home. [laugh] Write a letter home to your mother always and er, and then you go up to the, to the mess and have a flying breakfast. We were very privileged actually aircrew, whenever we were flying or on an operation we got egg and bacon for breakfast. That was unheard of during the war; we were very, very lucky. [laugh] But er, I suppose we earned it. So you’d go to, you’d go to the mess and have your break, have your flying breakfast, and then you’d go and wait in your huts until we knew what briefing time was and er, then you’d all go into the hut. In the briefing hut there was a very distinct atmosphere about, because the CO would, or the intelligence officer, would pull back the curtains on the target over the, on the stage. There was a pink ribbon stretching from your flight all, following your flight plan it would show you where the target was. And er it was a bit er, you know but you knew it was serious so you got on with it. But we, we flew operationally until just before the end of the war. One particular flight was notable because there was a –, it was a long, long flight to the island of Heligoland which is off the German coast, and, er, [pause] while we were flying over the sea there was a collision between –. Well we don’t know what happened really. Some people say that this particular Halifax pulled the jettison lever, dropped all his bombs together and they – some of them banged together and it went, the bombs went off underneath his aeroplane, but I’m not quite sure that’s true. However the aeroplane blew up in front of us and we flew through the pieces, but we, we only got one crack in the Perspex so it wasn’t too bad. And, er, [pause] Another thing was that we noticed when we were coming back one day early in the morning. We watched a V2 rocket being fired from somewhere in Belgium. So we weren’t the only ones in danger because, that, that rocket landed in England somewhere. Killed a lot of people I imagine. Anyway, the um, the operations were pretty straightforward, because you’d been trained how to use the, all the equipment on the aeroplane. Lots, lots of different systems, lots of things to look at. My job of course was to monitor the fuel system because the Halifax had fourteen fuel tanks, and er some had to be used in a certain order so that they balanced and then the overload tanks had to be pumped into the normal tanks and what with that and doing all the other things. Like the other bits of equipment. Dropping flares and, and all sorts of little jobs that you wouldn’t even think about the flight engineer’s job was quite busy, um, [pause].
CJ: I think you mentioned on the Heligoland raid you saw a Lancaster dropping a Tall Boy bomb?
BM: Oh yeah, yeah I did, yeah, one thing, one notable flight was when we were going in over , over em ‒ . Now let me think where it was. We were going in over one target and there was a Lancaster, a Pathfinder Lancaster, Number 19 Group I imagine. Came, flew alongside us but below us about, about a thousand feet below us. He was carrying one of the first Tall Boy bombs, one of the very big bombs. A twelve thousand pounder I think, wasn’t it? Yeah it was a twelve thousand pounder and we watched, we watched that bomb go, we watched that bomb go down. It was absolutely amazing, it went right smack in between the runway. It was on the –, the raid was on the airfield in Helgoland and the bomb dropped right on the, the er, intersection of the two runways. There wasn’t much runway left when that, after that had gone off. That was quite spectacular. And er, we had to [pause/ a little confused] hold on. So one way and another we, we totalled up a, a total of eleven operations over Germany while the war was still on, because I mean I was only thirteen when the war started so I’m surprised I got into it at all. [laugh] Anyway the war finished and the flying finished and I was made, made redundant and so had to retrain, and, and er, the, the trade, I chose was, was um, [pause] oh God – . I retrained as a, as a fitter marine on the rescue boats. So it was, it was much the same job as the flight engineer’s looking after the fuel and all the equipment but on a rescue boat. So, but we were supposed to be going out to, to join the air sea rescue people but the war finished before we could go out, before we could get there. So, anyway I carried on in the Air Force until I was demobbed in 19 – , when was I demobbed? 1944 was it,
CJ: ‘47 was it, you said?
BM: hang on a mo. [Looking through papers] Yeah I remustered and retrained as fitter marine, with the intention of joining the Air Sea Rescue Services in the Pacific with the expected invasion of Japan, but that didn’t come off, because the atom bomb put an end to that, and so I finished my service in 1947 on marine craft. I, I retrained as a fitter marine and they sent me out to Singapore so I had a year in Singapore which was quite interesting. And er, so I came back home and got my demob suit [laugh] and er, re-joined civilian life. Which wasn’t easy because I hadn’t got a job and er, oh dear – .Anyway [pause], I’d always been interested in photography so, after the war, I got a job with one of those companies on the seafront taking walking pictures and er, I did, I did a year of that. Just kept the, kept the rent coming in and er, found it very interesting actually, especially when you get down on the beach chasing all the girls, you know it’s quite good fun and, anyway I packed that up. I got interested in photography and because the company I worked for said ‘what else can you do?’ So I said I’m, I’m quite handy with a tool kit, so they put me in the workshop repairing cameras of all things. But these cameras weren’t, weren’t like, like your little snapshot cameras. They were great big postcard size, negative reflex cameras, and they were quite complicated and er, the chap in the workshop there was very clever. He got me, got me making spindles on the lathe. I used to make the little roller spindles for him on the lathe and er, that was quite interesting. But then the workshop was next door to the commercial department where they did what we call proper photography. Real commercial photography, not the beach stuff, and I used to go into there and I got interested in that and in the end I decided to take my exams as a, as a, as a photographer. So I genned up and went to night school, went to, and I learned about photography proper, and er, then I joined [little confused] joined a company doing, doing all sorts of commercial photography, and er, managed to get some aerial photography in too, which was quite good. And er, I got really interested in it so in the end I went to night school, took my exams in photography and started my own business. So [pause] I kept, I kept the family, I was married by then and kept the family in groceries. [Slightly confused] I’m sorry I am not very good. Since the war my life has been in photography, professional photography and er, [pause] I, I tried to do as much aviation work as I could, but um, apart from the SR53 which was – I’ll go back ‒ . I went to work for a [pause/looking through papers] I’m sorry.
CJ: You said you were doing some aviation work and you were on this SR53 project, I think, which is a prototype aircraft?
BM: Yeah I went to work for er, I went to work for Saunders Roe, who had, who had launched the SR53 which was a rocket. Which was a, a twin jet with a rocket engine and a jet engine, and I did the air to air pictures of that flying in a Meteor. [laugh] And eh ‒ .
CJ: I think you mentioned some Concorde shots as well?
BM: Yes, I managed; I managed to get some air to air shots of Concorde one day. I dunno how I got that job but I did, I got some nice shots of Concorde in mid-air, and er, sold a nice lot of those. [laugh] But other than that my work’s all been in commercial photography. But of course, any time, any chance we get near an aeroplane. I go to air days, I go to air shows and so on and er, it has all been very interesting.
CJ: You mentioned that you have been over to Canada to see the crew and they have been here. Did you have regular reunions?
BM: Yeah, well my Canadian crew of course all went back home and they were glad to get back to Canada, but it wasn’t long before they invited me over there. And er, so I took a trip over there one day, and er, [pause] [unclear] I went two or three times to Canada. And my, my crew all came here, they all, they all visited me here. And we had some, had some, jolly good booze ups I can tell you, [laugh] as one does. But um, I am still in touch with one of them, all the (others), they have all passed away I am afraid. [pause] I am the last one of the crew left. [laugh] There’s one or two people that I know in Canada, but er.
CJ: And how do you feel about the way Bomber Command was treated after the war?
BM: You ask any one of the thousands of Bomber Command people, they will all tell you the same thing. It was treated rather shoddily. But er, I went up to the, to the big day when the Queen came and um, unveiled the Memorial. I spent a happy day in London doing that – and er, [pause] oh well. It is all part of life isn’t it, these things. [pause]
CJ: So were there any big squadron reunions that you went to or were the reunions just with your crew?
BM: No the only, only RAF reunions I went to were with my crew but, as I say, they have all been here to visit me here, and er – .[pause] As I say, I, I wrote to them for years and years and years but as I say I am the only one left now. Our skipper was in the timber business. He went back to running two big timber camps in Canada, chopping down trees. [laugh] [pause] er, [looking through papers] Yeah, we got through the war. We were quite surprised really, we, we got through without any real damage to the aeroplane. Our rear gunner got a piece of shrapnel in his, in his forearm. That was about the only thing that happened to our aeroplane, we were very lucky and er ‒ . Flying out of a little field in Yorkshire a place called Tholthorpe in North Yorkshire. The local people there were very kind to us. There was always someone to mend your socks for you. You know have a little word when you got a bit upset sometimes, and er, of course the village pub in that village, pub did a roaring trade with the, with the aircrew blokes. But er, I have been back to the airfield since actually, it’s still there, and the runways are still there and the perimeter track’s still there. Somewhat overgrown of course but er. [pause] Funnily enough my hobby by then was flying radio-controlled models, and I, I took one up to the runway and flew it off the runway. [laugh] That is how sentimental I am. [laugh] Yeah.
CJ: I think you mentioned one operation where you got, the aircraft was damaged by ack, em, anti-aircraft fire.
BM: Oh yeah we got some, we got a few holes in the aeroplane yeah. We got – on operations we got quite badly shot up one night with, with anti-aircraft. In fact when we got down there was, there was, seven large holes in the aeroplane. And er, I went, I went down to change, change fuel tanks. At that time when you have been out, and almost back home again, you, you, you use every bit of fuel that’s in the tanks so, I was draining this tank and you, to drain the tank, you, you switch the engine to that tank, and you, you leave it until the little warning light comes on. The little red warning light flickers and then it stays on steadily. You nip up quickly and change, change the tanks over then. But I was waiting for this to happen and er, all of a sudden one of the engines started to splutter a bit, so I changed tanks quickly and went forward to see what was wrong. Only, only found out later that the, the fuel pipes for that tank had been shot away, so I would have waited all night and it wouldn’t have come on again. Anyway, that is the sort of thing that happened, that’s why they put you on there.
CJ: Well, thank you very much for talking to us today Ben, that was really interesting and we’ll end the interview there.
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Ben John May
Creator
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Chris Johnson
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-11-23
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMayBJ161123
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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00:32:39 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
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Canada
Great Britain
England--Yorkshire
Wales--Glamorgan
England--Cornwall (County)
Germany
Germany--Helgoland
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Singapore
Temporal Coverage
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1944
Contributor
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Chris Johnson
Terry Holmes
Description
An account of the resource
Ben was born in 1925 in Kent and his first job was in the gas works. A member of the Air Transport Command, he was called up in 1944 and after initial training at RAF Locking he joined No.4 flight engineers course at RAF St Athan for one year. He relates about the number of items of equipment in a bomber that he received training on. He then specialised on the Halifax and was sent to 420 Squadron where he crewed up and flew long flights as part of his training. Ben explains in detail the duties of the flight engineer and how much work it entailed. Posted to RAF Tholthorpe, he relates on life in bomber command on a typical day.
The first of his eleven operations was to the Ruhr valley which was uneventful, unlike the one to Helgoland where the aircraft in front of them exploded and they flew through the debris virtually unscathed. On another op, Ben had a grandstand view of the release of a Tallboy bomb and its devastating effect.
At the end of the war Ben retrained as a marine fitter and spent a year in Singapore before being demobbed. After a year as a photographer, he spent time in the camera workshop repairing commercial cameras and became a qualified photographer. Moving to a commercial photographic firm and then Saunders Roe, he specialised in air to air photography, including the SR53 experimental aircraft and Concorde and still retains his interest by visiting air displays.
Ben has had exchange visits with his Canadian former crew and feels, like most bomber command veterans, that they were treated shabbily.
420 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bombing of Helgoland (18 April 1945)
crewing up
flight engineer
Halifax
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF Locking
RAF St Athan
RAF Tholthorpe
Tallboy
training
V-2
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/639/8909/AShepherdFH150525.1.mp3
031fe9ea01628bf8d20dbf0d41146e6a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Shepherd, Frederick Harold
F H Shepherd
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
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Shepherd, FH
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Frederick Harold Shepherd (b. 1921, 152660 Royal Air Force). He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 2018 and 15 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
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2015-05-25
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre the interviewer is Claire Bennett the interviewee is Mr. Frederick Shepherd, the interview is taking place at Mr. Shepherd’s home near Kings Lynn on 25th May 2015.
CB: Good Morning Frederick
AS: Good Morning
CB: Perhaps you could start by saying your date and place of birth please
FS: The date of my birth was 8th March 1921 and I was born at Saint Mary’s Hospital in Manchester
CB: Do you remember very much of your early life
FS: That’s either very detailed or very shallow, I was, put it this way, I was the first child of my mother and father, and my next brother, Douglas, was born in 1926, and my second brother, Ronald was born in 1934, at the moment all my family have departed this world so I am the only one left in the Shepherd family.
CB: And your early life until you joined the air
FS: I was schooled in Manchester and on leaving school I joined the company of South American Shipping Association and stayed with them until I went to the Air Force when I was twenty years of age.
CB: What made you join the Air Force
FS: Er, basic inclination was to fly and in that connection I applied to join the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm but I was assured that entry into the Fleet Air Arm was via the Royal Marines, and no one would give me any indication of the gap period between joining and possibly being transferred to the Naval Airforce so I immediately applied to join the Royal Airforce.
CB: And this would have been 1941 something like that
FS: 1941 yes
CB: So where was your first posting to
FS: Ah, I need to qualify that a little bit, I was accepted by the Royal Air Force, er, took physical and mental examinations at Cardington, er, was sent home on deferred entry and I went to Manchester and Salford University for extra schooling on mathematics, geometry, Royal Air Force Law and the Morse Code technique, and that covered the period of time ‘twixt me being accepted and actually being invited to join in London at my, at um er, for the entrance into the Royal Air Force proper.
CB: How long would that have taken about
FS: Twelve months, the training took twelve months
CB: Right, and then
FS: I went into London for initial training, and then to Newquay for what they called ITW that was the initial training wing, before being selected to go into flying which I did immediately I left Newquay I went into basic flying at place called Clyffe Pypard which is in Wiltshire. I’m curious by the by are we being recorded now?
CB: Yes we are
FS: That happened to be the initial training school for flying happened to be a private training school and one or two of the previous employers at the school were still there until young ex flyers that’s not Bomber Command but Fighter Command came to do the training and they were young men of nineteen, twenty, twenty one, and the next part I would not like recorded its purely of interest but not I don’t think it is for the record, I mean these sorry
CB: Would you like me to pause it
FS: Yes, just for your [pause]. So I was taken under the wing metaphorically of a young man who was nineteen/twenty years of age who obviously shown how good he was a flyer and then been sent on to this training base and I found him excellent as a flyer but virtually useless as a trainer because he had no tolerance of my ineptitude for flying [slight laugh] at all and he got all these various flying techniques slow rolls, shuffles, turns and all the rest of them and I was just clinging to the side of the aircraft hoping I wouldn’t fall out [laughs].
CB: What aircraft were you in
FS: Tiger Moths [laughs]
CB: Tiger Moths I see
FS: You’d sit there next to him doing slow rolls and you’d catch everything that was coming out the cigarette ends and everything else that was in there would hit you in the face you know and you weren’t supposed to hold the sides of the aircraft you were supposed to have your hand on the joystick and I didn’t, that’s all part of the fun [laughs], er um, from then what happened next, er yes, I had um, I was taken off all training because playing rugby I had a scratch on my right eye across the pupil and there was a danger that I might not be able to fly at all, so I was admitted to the hospital at Swindon and I was there for a while and finally I was released unconditionally the repair had been affected as far as my eyes but meanwhile I was taken off the training for weeks on end and I wondered whether I was going to go back again but I did, but of course I lost all the people I was with they were well on their way to Canada, shall we go on now?
CB: Yes yes please
FS: From then we were all posted, all prepared for despatch to Canada because they had set up this empire [?] air training scheme which was part in Canada and the other part in Port Elizabeth in South Africa where all this training for all all aspects of flying all duties were going to be covered and we were sent up to a waiting station in Manchester a placed called Heaton Park where the maximum holding of manpower was for two odd thousand and it built up to ten thousand and we had individuals who actually were finding homes to stay in in proximity to Heaton Park this was all because of the big problems in the Atlantic we were going to be sent off by the Queen Elizabeth first boat and because of the submarines and so forth they were diverted they were slowing everything down for obvious reasons and it came to a point there was a terrific overflow from Manchester and they sent a company of us down to the south coast just to deposit us for a while we had only been there for four days and the Germans had obviously been advised and they sent across a fleet and we had a lot of casualties because they caught one flight coming back from training exercise and we had suspected that when we heard the roar of these aircraft that they were English aircraft when in actual fact they were German aircraft who were attacking us and from there that we had only been there for three days and that night or following morning at about two o’clock in the morning we all paraded we went right along the full length of the promenade on both sides of the promenade to the railway station onto a train and we didn’t get off the train until we got off at Harrogate, and from then on we were there for a short period of time despatched to Scotland and for one night only and then onto the Elizabeth the following day and away to Canada.
CB: How long did it take to get to Canada
FS: Four and a half days.
CB: What were the conditions like on board
FS: What with twenty thousand, we ate twice a day and we heard about when we were going to eat and whatever when we got on the boat by having these tickets and mine said two o’clock in the afternoon and two o’clock in the morning and from two o’clock until six o’clock afternoon and evening I was on special guard duty for the whole trip and we were allotted that sort of guard duty from two until six two until six.
CB: And what did that involve
FS: Parading all round the ship like in the daytime, not so much from two am in the morning until six am in the morning round the decks and that was the job its not everybody who had that sort of assignment but when I got on board I was given that ticket which advised me that I was one of twenty one in the bridal suite and that I had these duties from two until six two until six [laughs].
CB: Were you on your own in this bridal suite
FS: No [emphasis] twenty one I was one of twenty one in the bridal suite.
CB: In the bridal suite
FS: Oh yes, seven three tier bunks.
CB: Oh I see
FS: Great fun [laughs].
CB: So you got to Canada docked at Canada
FS: No no we went into New York, we went into New York and then a train travel [?] the likes of which I had never experienced before on the train for about three days off to Canada and we ate and slept we slept on the luggage racks which you could pull down for luggage but we had to sleep on them we couldn’t sleep at all we went up to Canada a place called Moncton which was the assembly point at the beginning of our trip to Canada we went to several stations in Canada for different aspects of training of course.
CB: So from Moncton you went to
FS: Er, one two three four different stations and then the last station was a place called Ancienne Lorette which was outside Quebec City and from there the majority of them were six of us were commissioned out of the thirty six on the flight six of us all went to Prince Andrews Island for this GR training and the rest of them either went straight away into operations in the Far East, as one or two of my friends and colleagues did and the rest of us went to Prince Edward Island for six weeks and then came home and that was it, we were there for about fifteen months all told.
CB: And you were being trained on
FS: All aspects
CB: And you settled for and you ended up where
FS: I had nothing to do with it you were directed I came back here one of the after that they differentiated with you between your badges I got an observer badge fully qualified afterwards that changed to either air gunner or BA which is bomb aimer or N for navigator they split it.
CB: Just to go back to Canada a minute what was the accommodation and the food like from what you had been used to in the UK
FS: No comparison vastly superior because they had no restrictions there in actual fact and that meant either in the camp or going out into the town for dinner I mean the prices were very realistic and the food was superb because it was free choice so when we went into Quebec City itself in actual fact you could dine for silly prices and you had fantastic meals and that’s what it was.
CB: What aircraft did you learn on
FS: Mainly Ansons, mainly Ansons and we had one or two gunnery [?] trips on Beaufighters which I haven’t mentioned before Ansons and Beaufighter
CB: What did you feel about your time in Canada was it happy memories
FS: Oh it was superb long time we had we worked eight days and then had a day off that was the standard eight days and one day off until we arrived in Prince Edward Island surprise surprise there was a weekend we finished work and we had Friday and Sunday off we used to go oyster fishing off Prince Edward Island [laughs].
CB: What were your other recreations apart from oyster fishing
FS: Gymnasium and squash that was about it and walking of course did a tremendous walking lovely particularly from Quebec one amusing incident we a bunch of us went into Quebec to the cinema and when we came out at the end of the show there had been a five foot fall of snow which meant we couldn’t even get out of the entrance of the theatre there so we ultimately got out and one of us went into the the hotel there which I have got a photograpgh of and booked a room and twelve of us occupied the room for the night then we got back to camp the following day the camp was about fourteen miles so I mean it was either snow shoes or horse drawn sleds took us back the following day but that was one of the amusing incidents.
CB: So happy times in Canada
FS: Oh absolutely in the main yes great fun and then coincidence I suppose we came back on the Elizabeth again
CB: Same sort of routines
FS: Yes not quite as cramped [laughs]
CB: How did you feel going across the Atlantic I mean were you frightened you were going to be torpedoed
FS: I don’t think it entered any of our minds at all we changed course getting slightly technical we changed course every seven minutes on that boat which you could realise in actual fact if you were up on the bridge because you could see this in the water purely as a safeguard and we diverted as well south and then turned back again up into New York.
CB: You were you part of a convoy
FS: Oh no, oh no nothing could keep up with that boat that’s why it was superior to the submarines they ain’t got that speed so we got away with it just changing course every seven minutes which is standard procedure and it can be set up by equipment in those days so every day of courseyou can see it so later on in the day you can see where you are crossing because you had left a stream there purely to indicate you changing course and that was entirely automatic until we got into New York and we were only there for a short time but there again talk about hospitality when we got off the boat we were given a little bunch of cards with names and addresses on and [?] please give us a telephone call and it would be an automatic invite to their houses if they were in proximity to where you were and we used to go out while we were there until everything was ready or the onto the train and up into Canada but that was a very nice experience went to big shows called Sons of Fun at the gardens there and they made fun of us course but it was all lighthearted stuff yes but we were one of the early contingents obviously across there into the states and they made a fuss of us while we were there which we accommodated very well and they did it in Canada in Canada the same arrangement the first Christmas we were there two of us David and I went to stay at a family they called them Driscolls and they lived in Montreal they had three children and we were invited there to stay there as long as we want over Christmas they took us up in the mountains up to the top and had Christmas dinner up in the Laurentian Mountains as part of there hospitality suite it was really good.
CB: Wonderful
FS: Oh yes it was no it was and they were also wonderful they used to send parcels to my family in Manchester the Driscoll’s Mr and Mrs Driscoll used to send parcels to my family in Manchester and saying jumping ahead a lot now on our way back from South America when we landed in Washington on VJ Day imagine what that was like and then we flew on to Montreal and when in Montreal I phoned the Driscolls you’ll never guess within ten minutes they said you’re not staying at the Windsor Hotel they picked me up and took me home I had to have five [unclear] with them of course and that was an indication of the hospitality I phoned them and within minutes they were there with the car and I renewed acquaintance with them after several years in Montreal.
CB: How wonderful
FS: More about that later
CB: So you arrived back in Liverpool
FS: Um, no we arrived back in Scotland.
CB: And then what was the next stage of your
FS: Down to down to Harrogate and then on to – down to Harrogate posting to Dumfries where I did an extensive course of specialised bombing for Pathfinders not that was any indication that we were going to [unclear] but that was specialised in training in Dumfries with a Polish pilot by the by very good we used to do specialised bomb dropping as required in these aircraft which I suppose was a Wellington and then down to, er um, down to pick up my crew, yes that’s where I met Mcfarlane and the rest of my crew before we went into mess halls.
CB: And where did you do your crewing up
FS: At um – Chipping Warden near Banbury.
CB: Right
FS: Yes because then in actual fact we were [unclear] break of through Wellington so before that in actual fact we crewed up at this place called Chipping Warden that was Banbury that was a sub station for Banbury we did our crewing up and then went to Chipping Warden and then started flying on Wellingtons purely training didn’t do any operational flying from there I tell a lie we did one operational flight that was on VJ night we flew over France dropping thousands of leaflets.
CB: Would you like to explain the crewing up
FS: Yes certainly we would assemble there was no assembly you just went into a huge hangar and you just wondered around I suppose so that was in the main the captain of the aircraft and in my case that was Squadron Leader McFarlane and he had met one person of the crew at the railway station at Littleport and on the railway station before they got there the two of them had decided that Captain McFarlane would have this other fella and then we got into this hangar and we wondered around and picked up and are you crewed up would you like to join us and we gathered up the crew the two gunners, and then wireless operator the bomb aimers as was then the navigator and the captain and that’s how we formed up and from there we went on to Wellingtons and then Stirlings and then on to Lancasters.
CB: So you first OTU operational training unit
FS: That was at Chipping Warden yes
CB: And your first training your did you know your first training was it leaflets
FS: First training or first flight the first operational flight
CB: Yes
FS: Was on VJ night and on landing night when we dropped thousands leaflets over France
CB: Right
FS: Then from then onwards we went on to Methwold and then Mildenhall ah I am telling lies we went to – Chedburgh that was on to Stirlings no we did no that’s right we went onto Stirlings but before we did any operational flights on Stirlings we transferred to Lancasters so went to Lancaster Finishing School LFS which was at a place called Feltwell just down the road from here.
CB: What date would this have been
FS: I’ll have to check with my
CB: Roughly
FS: Forty end Forty Three beginning Forty Four as near as makes no difference.
CB: So you went from flying on Wellingtons
FS: Yes only the one trip
CB: Only one trip on Wellingtons
FS: Then we went on flying Stirlings but we never did operational flying then we went on to Lancaster Finishing School at Feltwell and then on to operations at Methwold.
CB: What did you make of flying in the Stirling
FS: We didn’t but we had no choice I mean as far as we were concerned when we went training on Stirlings that was the aircraft we were going to fly in operations it so happened coincidentally happily that the Lancaster was coming in and replacing the Stirlings and whateverother aircraft we got and that was going to be the aircraft in this part of the country as opposed to Halifaxes in the Lincolnshire area which was a different group as you realise here we were 3 Group Lincolnshire were that’s what 4 Group glorious place.
CB: So we are now on to now in Lancasters
FS: Right operational flying the usual now what details would you like then I would have to refer to my flying log book.
CB: Certainly lets know some of the targets you went to.
FS: Shall I get my book
CB: Yes that’s fine, Frederick if we could talk about your start the start of your Bomber Command experiences in the Lancaster, so could you tell us about well your first operation.
FS: Yes now lets just have a look and be precise that’s Lancaster Finishing School 208 Squadron Methwold operation was destination was Boulogne can’t imagine what that was about um daylight visit to Boulogne doesn’t mention anything about bombing at all, um then there was a four and a half flight to Dusseldorf that was a straightforward bombing exercise now that would be the one [unclear] Calais [unclear] Duisburg bomb target so it must have been that trip to Dusseldorf when we came back the following morning that we noticed several technical people were busy standing underneath our aircraft gazing up underneath the right the starboard wing of which there was a hole between the second and third petrol tanks [laughs].
CB: And that had been caused by
FS: That had been caused by a bomb being dropped from one of our aircraft above which had gone straight away through between the two tanks without exploding which it should have done on impact.
CB: Incredible
FS: Absolutely absolutely incredible and then we did several trips and – that’s [unclear] that transfer date [pause] ah there we are yes the transfer date to Mildenhall see how many trips we did there, Stuttgart Essen Volks[?]
CB: So you are bombing the major cities now
FS: Yes that’s up to about October forty four
CB: Were you involved in any of the Berlin raids
FS: No not one no scheduled for but cancelled what had happened in actual fact, [coughs] pardon me oh sorry lets go back please to Methwold again because that was I had been talking about our first bombing raid when we actually arrived at Methwold as a crew the previous night they had sent out twelve Lancaster aircraft and five came back which is a heavy loss for one station and we became part of the quite pathetic exercise of moving into accommodation which had previously been occupied by friends of ours and you know when anybody is lost they have a special committee set up particularly with officers and these officers were doing all their duty work and we were moving in the following day so it wasn’t a very good start as far as we were concerned but still we obviously we accommodated it but that was a heavy loss they sustained that night and then the this was the first operational operational job we came back and found that incident the following morning in our aircraft yes so going on now what more
CB: So you went from Methwold to
FS: So we went from Methwold to Mildenhall I’ll tell you about why there had been a loss at Mildenhall there was a vacancy for a new squadron commander and they appointed my captain Squadron Leader McFarlane and they agreed which was unusual they agreed for him to take his full crew so we all went so we were all transferred our affections to Mildenhall and then onwards
CB: And this was with 218 Squadron
FS: From 218 to 15
CB: Right [unclear]
FS: And here we are 15 Squadron at Mildenhall and when there was a loss our captain was a squadron leader so when there was a loss of a senior officer the group captain no it wasn’t a wing commander over they appointed our captain McFarlane to take over from him as a wing commander so he lost his crew for obvious reasons and that crew was taken over by a Squadron Leader Percy and at that point I was appointed I was taken out of the crew and appointed as bombing leader for 15 Squadron and I also I became squadron adjutant at the same time reporting again to my previous captain McFarlane so I was taken out of my crew at that time.
CB: What does being adjutant involve at that time
FS: All the clerical work on top of which I was the leader of the bombing section so I was actually the bombing leader which you had to have in every squadron he’s the guy who goes to all the early meetings to take advice for onward transmission to the people of what was going to happen that night so that was so I had those two jobs I had still when I was so I was then whipped out of my crew and another individual appointed to the crew which was then being handled by Squadron Leader Percy who had taken over from McFarlane so I lost my crew because of my other involvements and I stayed in that situation until surprise surprise I was advised that I had been selected to accompany Harris now the reason how they did that they obviously they wanted an aircraft and I will show the aircraft that had been modified afterwards they wanted what was I going to say, how they chose who was going to do what they chose 15 Squadron because it was the oldest squadron in the air force to do these flights for Harris and having chosen the aircraft from 15 Squadron they took out the leaders from each department bombing section navigation section [unclear] section and those leaders all were part of the crew that’s the crew I have got in the photograph next door so from that point onwards I was involved in away to Africa America Canada and everything and left the crew behind.
CB: So your operational life stopped
FS: It stopped
CB: How did you feel about seeing your crew going off and having been given these new duties
FS: Well I was immensely proud because I mean it was quite an assignment we were going to go on we had no idea at that time we’d only got the shadow of what was going on we knew he’d been invited I’m talking about Harris because he’d been in Africa before he came to England he was been in South Africa he’d been invited to various places and the South er the Brazilian Government had invited somebody out there to commemorate the arrival of the Brazilian Expeditionary Force which had gone to Italy and not fired a shot and got back home again and they declared a national holiday [laughs] and coincidentally we were due to be arriving in Rio de Janeiro before they arrived back and that was what that was all about.
CB: There must have been a terrific sense of comradery on you know when you were flying with your crew that you had been with such a long time.
FS: [laughs] of course yes but it had to be severed the initial severance was when I was appointed the bombing leader which immediately took me out because only on rare occasions I had one or two rare occasions when a particular crew would be short of a bomber for one reason or another and I stepped right into their jobs that was quite harrowing to be a foreigner so to speak with a crew because you get used to your crew their attitude their application and even their reaction to situations but to go with another crew I found that quite tough going yes I flew with a Canadian crew on one occasion and they’d had several very rough experiences with I’ll mention one a decapitated bomb aimer came back in the aircraft and there were others now the crew in relation to my crew which were far more disciplined but with respect they hadn’t gone through the sort of operation now that crew with whom I flew on their twenty second operation were very little discipline there at all I think they were very concerned about what had happened on their previous operations they bailed out and they had done lots of other things and I flew with them as the air bomber for them and I found that the disciplines were very sadly lacking which was reflected on the chattering that goes on over the telephone the intercom which was fairly evident but still that is by the by and you ride that situation which I did.
CB: Did you just fly the one operation with them
FS: Yes yes yes just the one
CB: And did your crew your original crew did they survive the war
FS: Yes they did yes yes yes they did, no they did yes in spite of all the losses yes yes
CB: So you are now given these new duties and the next thing you hear is that you are going to be flying with Harris
FS: Right
CB: And when did you first see him when did you first meet him
FS: At the first place before we were going to, let’s get the dates – where I finished up [flicking through pages of flying log] – it all started in July Forty Five.
CB: Oh so
FS: Yes July Forty Five it started that’s when I met up with Wing Commander Calder a scots ex dambuster and he came down and I started flying with him as a co-navigator and then that was just before the trip started now the actual trip do you want to go on to when the trip started.
CB: Well if we can go back to Calder what would had been your you know your trip tours after the war in July Forty Five what were you doing with Calder.
FS: He was the captain of the aircraft taking Harris around the world.
CB: I see
FS: Yes.
CB: Right so
FS: Calder was ex bomber no ex Dambuster Squadron yes that’s Wing Commander Calder double DSO double DSC no seriously he was only twenty one brilliant.
CB: Yes so he was the pilot
FS: Yes he was the pilot
CB: So you would be the
FS: I flew with two navigators on this
CB: So you were the navigator on this because obviously we weren’t this wasn’t any hostile flying involved.
FS: None at all
CB: It was just
FS: Hardly, hardly
CB: It was just taking Harris around
FS: Yes quite literally and all that went with it.
CB: So what did you make of Bomber Harris
FS: I found him most of all to if I used the term a gentle person obviously a very strict disciplinarian but in actual fact on a personal basis on the occasion when I was talking to him he was much a very relaxed bearing in mind with what he had to contend as I mentioned before it wasn’t an easy life for him at all he had to virtually fight for possession for his own force and he had the big people in government who were contesting him in many instances I could name names but there is no point until he finally bearing in mind as I mentioned before the junior service the first being the navy the second being the army were very much the junior service and he didn’t find he’d get his own way at all in spite of the plans he had laid and the proposal view put before the big people like Portal and others who didn’t entirely agree with him that getting behind the German war machine by tackling in reducing to ruins their equipment factories that were providing the aircraft and all the aircraft parts was what he wanted to get at he didn’t find it easy until apparently he did get his own way and that’s when the war then moved to the German armoured factories which was part of the beginning of the end so to speak so the rest of that in actual fact is devoted to flying we did the whole of Africa and then started off we should have gone we went to a little aerodrome in the South of France for refuelling then we should have gone to Crete but we got to Crete and they said on no condition that you land because we have got a fever that is sweeping through Crete which could be dangerous so we didn’t drop off at Crete at all our next port of call was Egypt and then we went right the way down Africa staying at various places until we got to Cape Town.
CB: What was the purpose of Harris’ travels
FS: There was really no purpose these were just invitations from these people overseas to express their appreciation of what he’d done for Bomber Command and in the longer term what he had done in the country in terms of accelerating the close of the war and I suppose a thank you for the fifty five thousand who died during the war because this came out in all his little addresses that he gave in actual fact he was conscious of that fifty five thousand he dropped it in quite loosely everywhere so that was the trip and we came back only for a short period of time and then went on to the South American trip flying down the west coast of Africa to a place called Bathurst and then flying across from Bathurst to North Brazil and down to Rio de Janeiro and then all the way back calling in at various places British Guyana etcetera etcetera etcetera up over Florida and landing on VJ Day in Washington for the big celebrations which we joined in and at that time met big people like General Arnold and General Eaker with whom he Harris had been negotiating years before for the Americans to come into the European war instead of devoting their care and attention to the Japanese which was arguably their main drive force in actual fact he was one of the individuals we had dispatched to America to talk it over and in fact these two individuals were present when we landed in Washington so it was quite a gathering quite a gathering yes.
CB: Do you know if Harris knew that they were going to drop the atomic bomb in August
FS: Oh yes
CB: He knew so was it timed that he would be in Washington at that
FS: No
CB: No
FS: He didn’t we did our trip across South America Rio de Janeiro Sao Paulo addressed the British community in Sao Paulo this is where the fifty five thousand came up again and purely by coincidence I met a young man there an Englishman who had completed his course at [unclear] university when I went there and he had transferred his affections to the equivalent of our administration organisation and he had joined that in Sao Paulo and as he mentioned he said if you ever thinking about coming over here do get in contact with me and we will see what we could do this was in Sao Paulo South America and we had that closeness in that part of our education of being in the same place at slightly different times we got round to discussion this and he said well wait a minute I was there too when were you there and I realised I had gone there when he’d left in Manchester quite astounding yes quite astounding [laugh] we kept in a bit of correspondence for a while but I had no intention of going to South America in actual fact at that time well by that time I had left [unclear] and was working in Mareham I had met the lady who was going to be my future wife who’d had a little girl whose husband had died and any thoughts of going out of England had gone she came from Kings Lynn in actual fact.
CB: So how long was this flight with Harris
FS: Oh right –
CB: Right Frederick so you have started with going around Africa and so on in July Forty Five and you actually came back in August Forty Five so do you look on that time as a pleasurable month did you enjoy doing what you did with Harris
FS: Oh fantastic I mean these places I had never visited before I’d never been to Africa before and we I say we just went to these various places in Africa stopping for two or three days and at each place from Cairo to Cayga [?] I mean as far as I was concerned that was fantastic we did all these wonderful things in the Sahara into the jungle at night time you name it we did it of all the places to stay in Nairobi we stayed at the Norfolk Hotel in that location and to things like seeing all the African workers sitting on the steps making things like I’ve got those forks knives and forks actually making them and selling them to us in actual that was a new experience going out on night time safaris going out on night time sing songs in the jungle and all that sort of thing we did going to moth and butterfly museums quite absolutely incredible.
CB: Did Harris join you for any recreations
FS: No, for some but mostly he was at a much higher level than we were and were concerned with our I mean we went to Mombasa we went down we did the big things like going down a gold mine for instance going down a gold mine and you go down a gold mine instead of going straight down there you go about seventy five degrees and six of you go down at a time two two two and you go down at a fantastic speed at about that angle that was the Wanderer Gold Mine and I’ve still got specimens I joke not I’ve got specimens of gold that they gave us at the gold mine fifty sixty years ago I’ve still got them I don’t know what they are worth but these are specimens inside that you see petrite [?] it’s called inside the petrite[?] is pure gold.
CB: Gold that would be worth now these days
FS: Oh bound to I might take it to see that fellow who does gold in Lynn he’d say oh thank you I’ll have this bit its worth a couple of pounds couple of pounds sorry I joke but no it showed I had a fantastic experience in those places we went to a place in Bathurst on the West Coast of Africa from which we flew to South America and we went they took us down to a cellar where the native bunch were all sitting on the floor making filigree and we could buy it and we could buy it for ridiculous prices I mean low low prices and we all bought our specimen as few of but actually to sit there and watch it being made that was a fantastic experience that followed not quite such a fantastic experience when we were landing in Bathurst a place called Halfdie [?] which has taken its name from the fact that they had a plague which wiped out fifty percent of it and thereafter named it Halfdie [?] and the last few hundred yards in we encountered a terrific sandstorm and we couldn’t see a thing out of the aircraft it was kind of landing by instinct and we got out of the aircraft and it was torrenting down and we were absolutely saturated and they persuaded us to strip off and put clothes on and they put all our clothes on to fast heaters so we went in there was a crisp uniform standing up in the corner which you had to break to get it on [laughs] like this crack crack crack it was quite ridiculous and we had a function an important function that night and there was our stuff we had to wear everything shirt vest and pants was rock hard [laughs].
CB: I assume Harris’ stuff wasn’t
FS: No he had six spare uniforms in his luggage that was incredible we had that photo they had just taken all our clothes away and woosh we’ll dry these for you [laughs]
CB: Now after the war if we can just conclude with Harris he didn’t wasn’t treated very well
FS: No no he wasn’t
CB: Nor was Bomber Command for that matter
FS: No no no
CB: Did you have sympathy with Harris at this time about how he was treated
FS: Oh yes I think we all did I yes I suppose even then the realisation of what sort of if I can put the wording in the battering he had to get his own way and the fact and even the fact that it was proven beyond any doubt that what that the plans he had put forward and etcetera which had met so much opposition at one time and then finally he got his own way and got the power behind his throne that he wanted to do what he wanted to do with Germany in spite of [unclear] and all that I suppose we all had a tremendous amount of sympathy and a tremendous amount of respect for his dogmatic approach in actual fact to get not his own way for words sake for getting his own way for the benefit which would be derived in him getting permission to do what he wanted to do and the result was the war came to an end so I suppose at that time we thought a great deal of him.
CB: And did you all think you know a great deal of him during the war when he was he had this programme
FS: Yes that was the general the general sentiment yes he didn’t mean admire he wouldn’t expect to meet any opposition at that it was patently obviously what we had to do and one was certainly not send the trained crews to handle the Atlantic war in spite of how vital that was I mean we talking about hundreds of thousands and when you look at the figures of what was going down ‘twixt and ‘tween American and where they were delivering the goods to place like Archangel and Murmansk North of Russia and then there was all those goods coming through Russia into the European war in spite of all that and the tremendous demands which were made upon him by as I say the Navy to send to have some trained forces so they could handle the Atlantic war well of course that wasn’t realistic in anyway there was nothing that we were doing in Germany to identify with anything to do with the Atlantic war that was something quite different admittedly they wanted the aircraft and unless they could have the aircraft and they could have the armaments to be able to drop bombs on submarines which was a bit wild gesture anyway that might have been might have made a contribution towards the more positive influence of all the shipping that was coming across the Atlantic than it did because we wouldn’t I remember the speeches in parliament by Churchill ex hundreds and thousands and thousands of tons of zinc had gone down and then the humanitarian aspect of how many they had lost at sea I don’t suppose any of us could identify that with sending trained Royal Air Force crews into the Navy to do what you know one of the things you were supposed to do to have a fleet of aircraft over the Atlantic dropping bombs on U-boats bearing in mind we had U-boats out there trying to blow the air out of the Germans anyway but that was I suppose that could have taken a different more important role entirely had that shipping gone down a more I mean with these vital elements that were arriving from America in Russia well it was a contributory factor obviously and hundreds of thousand tons going down in the Atlantic meant nothing at all to that building up that war coming down from Russia through Germany etcetera so we had a great deal of respect for him and he was a person who you had a great deal of respect for anyway not because of his position and his number of stripes in actual fact his dogged determination to get his own way for the benefit of not he for the benefit of the war.
CB: Well
FS: Sorry to interrupt but this came out in his speeches that he gave overseas in South America and the particular one we all attended in in Rio to the British contingent he was quite emotional about [unclear] the losses that had been sustained doing what he wanted to do.
CB: Of course Churchill after the war distanced himself from Harris.
FS: Oh yes yes
CB: His strategy and Bomber Command what do you feel about that
FS: We had a very strong feeling extremely strong feelings the war was over then we could say but wait a minute we succeeded but it wasn’t that easy in actual feel there was a tremendous amount of ‘oppo’ of course a lot was caused by the Dresden business that manifested itself too I remember that we haven’t touched on it yet Joy and I were specially invited to the memorial service the unveiling service for the house you’ve got all the details for that
CB: Yes
FS: Because I’ve got all the details just digressing for a moment only because of my association close association for a short period of time I had special dispensation to attend the church we had seats you had to pay for them but we had seats reserved at the church for the unveiling ceremony which was the Queen Mother of course.
CB: Yes
FS: And that was sorry to be digressing just for a moment and when we got the invitation it was a question of where it was so forth how you get there so forth and I said ‘oh there’s no point taking a car there’s thousands going there’ having a contact at The Savoy I phoned my contact and got a reservation in their garage for my car and again realised you come out The Savoy turn right and there’s the church so Joy and I went up there I was in full regalia medals and all chat chat chat[?] and went in there and had breakfast in The Savoy [laughs] there were people coming up and whats going on oh yes we’ve got something special going on down the road and then walked out the front and walked out and there was the church and we had reserved seats that was packed to capacity as of course the Queen Mother was there of course she performed the unveiling ceremony and again there was a terrific uproar in the background on her lefthandside at the back it was subdued but in actual fact it started off being very very rowdy and she continued on with her little citation for the opening and it came very interesting from Joy and I point of view my group captain from Mildenhall was then the chairman of the Bomber Command Association and his duty on that particular day was to escort the Queen Mother round and into the law courts where we were having [unclear] or teas coffee whatever I mean so he took and upside in his wheelchair was Cheshire so we could shake hands with Cheshire that’s purely by the by and we got inside and we wondering how difficult this is you’ve got two hands a cup in one hand a plate in the other one said help yourself and we were in this sort of situation and a voice boomed out it was my group captain ‘Shepherd would you bring your good lady over’ and we were introduced to the Queen Mother as spontaneous as that no preparation at all so Joy went across and was presented on the spot that was a lovely instance and that was my group captain.
CB: Yes
FS: From Mildenhall so where have we got to as far as your concerned
CB: I know that you were involved even on a slight degree with Operation Manna
FS: Oh yes on experimentation that’s right
CB: So how did you come to be involved in that
FS: There wasn’t much and I signed on for an extra six months no I’m getting things out of timing I came back to Mildenhall and everybody had gone all the bodies had gone all disappeared and there was [unclear] bombing leader who would need a bombing leader after the war [?]
CB: This is April Forty Five Right
FS: That’s absolutely right and I had come back I had finished full of my trips overseas America and everything else and that was excitement at the tail end of when we arrived in Washington of course it was madness and from there we flew up to Duval which is Montreal in the Lancaster of course in preparatory for coming home and we flew off from there and landed in Newfoundland and took off for the trip back to Prestwick which the navigator and I the two of us that was going to be an entirely star navigation back home as an experiment two three thousand miles so we dropped all the mechanics we concentrated on star shooting with our cameras and moon charts and we got a freak tuning from Prestwick two thousand three hundred miles from Prestwick so that pointer came there and we had a beam it up so that we could tell exactly where we were coming over the county it was fine we had a fire on the outboard engine on the starboard side of the aircraft a fire no problem just press the button to extinguish it, press the button to extinguish it, nothing happened so we had a fire in the starboard engine so the only think that Calder could do we were probably about twelve fourteen thousand feet high was to put the aircraft into a very steep dive and it worked it blew the fire out the engine so on investigation we found that when we dropped into Duval for final check up they had not put the fuses back into the system so [sighs] it was a toss up shall we turn back into Newfoundland rather than risk anything and that’s where they confirmed there were no fuses in the fire system whatsoever so we thought we’d choose this got airborne and came back to Prestwick [laughs heartily] but these things what happen we could have gone down there and had no well they wouldn’t know well they would have had a rough idea of where we’d gone down but fat lot of good that does [laughs] well yes that was the spot yes you can see it no can’t see any bubbles a simple thing like that happen yes and that was on the return flight. So back now Manna
CB: Right Manna
FS: So when I came back to Mildenhall there was no job for yours truly but they had a vacancy up the road in Mareham in the experimental unit for Manna and not much alternative I had my service to do and I wanted a job so I was posted in actual fact to take over this Manna thing now that involved researched into a sort of canister that we were handling that had to go on board laden with goods and lifted up into the bomb bay and writing up a report and making recommendations and so forth and on one could be tragic as far as I was concerned we got everything ready we got a pannier fixed inbetween these two containers with whatever to make weight and upstairs one of the armament people was controlling the hoist and halfway up the hoist gives way and I am standing with my hands on the edge of the thing and I took my hand and the whole of the thing crashed down into the pannier it would have just taken it off at the wrist and we looked at the hoisting gear it was clearly marked ‘US’ and they had used it oh there was a terrific stink because the person actually totally responsible was the person doing the mechanical winding upstairs was clearly marked anyway but that’s the time I could have easily lost my two wrists so I continued on my balance on my extra six months writing up reports and so forth and then I left the Air Force.
CB: So for Operation Manna the supplies couldn’t be dropped by parachute so they were in these cannisters.
FS: Yes they were an oblong framework and supported with release gear [unclear] by the pound in actual fact these are the continued developments experiments if you like that we were conducting and it was changing fairly rapidly what was being called for because we were getting reports back from Holland and Belgium on how things were landing and what sort of degree of damage occurred etcetera and what was the ideal height for dropping and they were putting up these tremendous haystacks I suppose you could call in actual fact them to cushion the thing and they worked then I came away from the operation so they built these fields with twenty foot haystacks totally soft so they cushioned everything so the percentage of damage incurred by the contents was minimalised and that was when I came away came out.
CB: So you really finished with the war with Operation Manna and taking Harris out two positive ways to finish the war.
FS: Oh very much no question about that I assure you
CB: Rather than finishing it off on a bombing mission
FS: Yes yes absolutely
CB: And how did you feel when you you know
FS: Well tail end of course the humanitarian thing came in and it was the most simple thing in the world in Kings Lynn at the Dukes Head throughout the war every weekend every Saturday evening throughout the war they had an officers invitation dance at the Dukes Head Hotel and they meant officers and it was at one of these occasions at the officers dance I went along there and surprise surprise I met Joy who was on about her second time out having lost her husband who was a bomber pilot university bomber pilot straight from university straight in.
CB: They had their own squadrons didn’t they
FS: Absolutely yes he did complete his first tour of thirty trips came out unscathed was sent to train pilots who were going to be involved in the dropping of a bridge too far sort of thing he did all his training and he was called back to do his second tour of operation and on his second trip on his second tour went down coming back from Cologne and left Joy with a little girl she was then three and I met her and got married.
CB: What did you do after the war
FS: I worked for a company called Nestle on the sales side and I became responsible for recruitment and training and development for the whole organisation I was with them for thirty years wonderful company international of course head office in a lovely place called Vevay in Switzerland on the banks of the lake and I was with them for
CB: Did you live out there
FS: No went but no lived in England moved about England when Nestle moved their head office into Croydon and had this twenty two storey block the first one they had seen in Croydon and they occupied the whole of the building because they brought in all the associated companies into one building the associated companies being the likes of Kieler, Crosse & Blackwell, Toblerone, Findus all the associated companies which were dotted around that all came into the head office twenty two storey block in Croydon so I was there until I retired and then I started work.
CB: How would you sum up your time in the Second World War and Bomber Command
FS: Well it’s tough I mean apart from being revolutionary of course which it is to my mind I don’t know what would have happened if I had stayed with the South American Shipping Association which was involved obviously in shipping goods to South America and that came to an[unclear] end at the start of the war because you couldn’t expect boats to go out there so there was no job so that’s a bypass so answering your question because it’s obviously so revolutionary and so different to what it would have been and I couldn’t imagine what I would have done had I not gone into the Air Force well I suppose life would have been fairly steady progressing with an organisation and at some stage deciding I wasn’t going far enough fast enough and getting out but I mean that was wiped off by going into the Royal Air Force.
CB: So you obviously had to volunteer so did you
FS: Ah you can’t go into the Air Force Royal Air Force without being a volunteer.
CB: No
FS: As you know
CB: Yes
FS: So I had to volunteer I had to go into the Air Force after I had tried to go into the Navy fortunately the Air Force they said yes please thank you rather than the Navy did no no no [laughs].
CB: So well a time really of excitement danger new experiences
FS: A mixture of all of those I mean the new experiences were embodied in the African trips and so forth and at the end when we were coming home from Africa we spent some time in Greece in Italy on the way back so it was really a very comprehensive trip and whilst we down in particularly Rio de Janeiro that was absolutely fantastic I mean you have seen pictures of it Copacabana Beach but we went out to place called Quichaninnia [?] about seventy miles out we had never ever I had never in my life seen a hotel like that out there it had its own everything I mean I mentioned things seventy pianos for a concert seventy pianos indoor and outdoor ballroom indoor and outdoor swimming pools and it was situated actually on the banks of a river so you could get out at night time and go right the way up the river which were all lit from this Quichaninnia [?] Hotel all lit right up into the hills fantastic place.
CB: So these are all experiences that you wouldn’t have had.
FS: I could have afforded it we were honorary members of everything when we arrived there golfing club swimming club the lot they’d opened everything and across the bay from the statue you know it’s the English quarter and that was fantastic a bit of England on the opposite shores of Rio de Janeiro.
CB: Wonderful it’s been fantastic and interesting to hear all your experiences so thank you very much Frederick.
FS: It has if it identifies with what you are looking for fine yes.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Frederick Harold Shepherd
Creator
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Clare Bennett
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-25
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AShepherdFH150525
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
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01:11:50 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Description
An account of the resource
Frederick joined the Royal Air Forcein 1941. After going to Cardington, he was given deferred entry and studied for a year at university. He was invited to London for initial training, followed by the Initial Training Wing at RAF Newquay. He did basic flying in Tiger Moths at RAF Clyffe Pypard before going for 15 months to different stations in Canada. He trained mainly on Ansons.
On his return, he went to Harrogate and was then posted to RAF Dumfries where he did a specialised bomb dropping course for Pathfinders. Frederick crewed up at RAF Chipping Warden and trained on Wellingtons. He did one operation, dropping leaflets over France.
Frederick then went onto Stirlings at RAF Chedburgh before Lancasters at the Lancaster Finishing School at RAF Feltwell. He carried out several operations with 218 Squadron at RAF Methwold. Frederick then moved with his captain to RAF Mildenhall when the latter was promoted. He carried out several operations on major cities. Frederick was appointed as bombing leader for 15 Squadron as well as the squadron adjutant.
Frederick was chosen to accompany Arthur Harris, flying with Charles Calder as a co-navigator. The crew were all section leaders. Frederick describes Harris’s personality and the leadership challenges he faced, expressing his sympathy and respect. Having refuelled in the south of France, they went through Africa and on to South America and the United States, arriving in Washington on VJ Day.
Frederick signed on for another six months and went to RAF Marham in the experimental unit for Manna before leaving the RAF.
Contributor
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Sally Coulter
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Manchester
England--Norfolk
England--Northamptonshire
England--Suffolk
England--Wiltshire
Scotland--Dumfries and Galloway
United States
Washington (D.C.)
Canada
France
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1945-08-14
15 Squadron
218 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bomb aimer
bomb struck
Flying Training School
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Operation Manna (29 Apr – 8 May 1945)
Operational Training Unit
Pathfinders
perception of bombing war
propaganda
RAF Chipping Warden
RAF Clyffe Pypard
RAF Dumfries
RAF Feltwell
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Marham
RAF Methwold
RAF Mildenhall
Stirling
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/786/9341/PWildesJE180829.1.jpg
20072f7f64debe87ec906cbfd6e26011
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/786/9341/AWildesJE180829.1.mp3
e631f87cbb026ea8770f4a9901045618
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Wildes, Jim
James Ernest Wildes
J E Wildes
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with James Wildes (1923 - 2019, Royal Air Force).
He failed aircrew selection due to ear problems and so served as ground personnel.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-08-29
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Wildes, JE
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
MH: That’s great. Well, first of all Jim I’m delighted to come and meet you today and listen to, to your story. I know a little about you. I hope to when I leave at the end to know far more. Ok. There’s a little bit I’ve just got to say at the start so that people listening to this back at the Bomber Command Centre know exactly where we are and what we’re doing. So, this interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Martyn Hordern. That’s myself. The interviewee is James Wildes. The interview is taking place at the Tri Services and Veteran Support Centre, Hassell Street, Newcastle, Staffordshire. Also present is Peter Batkin who is a friend of Jim. The date is the 29th of August 2018 and the time by my watch is quarter past eleven in the morning. I know from just talking to you Jim that you were born on the 18th of July 1923. Where was that then? Where were you born?
JW: Burton on Trent.
MH: Ok. Tell me a bit about your parents and your family life as, as a lad.
[pause]
JW: We lived with my, my dad and mother and the tribe that, because she had six children and I was the eldest lived in South Oxford Street, Burton on Trent. My dad was out of work for seven or eight years during the recession of that time. My mother was a tailoress and she worked from home reversing coats and that sort of thing because that was the way you lived those days.
MH: Did your, did your dad serve in the First World War?
JW: Yes. He was in the Staffordshires.
MH: How long did he serve during the war?
JW: He served in the, in the First World War and a little bit afterwards in Ireland. I don’t think he’d signed on. It was like it was at the end of —
MH: Yeah.
JW: The Second World War. You could do another year before you got home.
MH: So, so as a young lad what did, I take it you went to school. What age did you leave school?
JW: Fourteen.
MH: Ok.
JW: Because of my birthday coming in July I did the eleven plus twice. The first time I failed. The second time I got enough to pass to secondary school. Not to Grammar School. But my mother couldn’t afford uniform so we got a deal where I went to Union Street one day per week at government expense.
MH: Right. And then when you left school what did you do?
JW: I was training to be an apprentice joiner and carpenter because my grandad, the other Ernie he, he was a master joiner. And I worked with him whenever I could from fourteen on but I had to have another job to support the family because he was a jobbing joiner that had contracted for jobs. We used to do South African Railway carriages and it all came pre-packed. And you always put in Baguleys of Burton on Trent and he would, he would, we would put it together like you do things these days. Cut it all in.
MH: Yeah.
JW: In South African Railways style.
MH: Right. So then the Second World War came along. You were —
JW: Well —
MH: You were just sixteen.
JW: I I’d, around about fourteen I joined the Boy’s Brigade and there was an RAF section in it of about four of us and on Sundays sometimes we went to Burnaston Aerodrome which is now a car factory and we could swing a Tiger Moth. And I got one flight of it because occasionally an RAF retired officer turned up to fly this thing.
MH: And that was the first time you ever went in a plane?
JW: Yes, was. That was my first time.
MH: So, so, the Second World War started. You were, you were just sixteen.
JW: Yes.
MH: What were you doing then?
JW: I I was still doing, well I eventually got, what happened was that, that the restrictions on my grandfather forced both he and I to join another joinery firm because there was no longer small businesses around. We were forced in to wartime things from 1938 so, I became a bound apprentice with Sharp Brother and Knight of Burton on Trent. Around about seventeen the Boy’s Brigade sent me to Cardington for an interview for aircrew which I failed because I’d got bad ears and in those days those aircraft weren’t pressurised. So they, but I did the exam and they recommended and gave me a little notation that I go in to Derby when I was seventeen and half to recruit as a VR. Which I did.
MH: What’s a VR?
[pause]
JW: Volunteer Reserve.
MH: Right.
JW: Yes.
MH: Thank you. So, by that time we were sort of talking about towards the end of 1940 are we then, at that point?
JW: No. We’re talking about 1941.
MH: Right. In to, yeah.
JW: Early in 1941 that happened. At seventeen and a half I had to get my dad’s signature to be able to join the Air force which I did and took to Derby.
MH: What was your parents view of that at the time then? Seeing as you didn’t —
JW: Well, my dad didn’t want me to join but my mother said it’s alright.
MH: What was the reason your dad didn’t want you to join?
JW: Well, he’d been at, I think Mons during the First World War for some time.
MH: So, he’d been at the start.
JW: So, he’d been in that and he was on Gallipoli as well.
MH: So he, do you think he knew a bit more about what you were likely to face than what your mum did?
JW: Yes. Exactly.
MH: So, so you up at sixteen and a half. Where was the first place you —
JW: Well, I didn’t actually get in until June or July. They called me in.
MH: So you were just about eighteen then.
JW: Yes. And they followed the recommendation to send me to Halton for aircraft training, which I did. I went to Halton and joined the RAF. And I passed out second in an entry of about eighty people that were doing a joining course like, it was split in to two halves. A bit for engines and a bit for airframes and I was, I came second and was sent on for on the job training at Abingdon.
MH: Right.
JW: On Hampdens and Whitleys.
MH: Yeah. So where was Halton then? Whereabouts is Halton? I know where Abingdon is.
JW: Halton is Wendover. Very very near. Do you know Wendover?
MH: I’ve heard of it.
JW: Yes. Very near to Chequers.
MH: And Abingdon obviously became a car factory. A car factory wasn’t it?
JW: Yes. This Abingdon was, they trained you on, on real aircraft.
MH: Right. So —
JW: And then they took me back to once I was trained on. So that was my first [pause] Abingdon was 10 OTU and the Whitleys and Hampdens were flying aircraft. So that was Bomber Command.
MH: And what, what were you doing when you were there? You said on the job training. What was your, what was your, what were you trained?
JW: I was trained on, on the Abingdons and the Whitleys and also we strung up a a biplane as well. So I was trained mainly on aircraft rather than engines.
MH: Right. So, so you just, you just said stringing up a plane.
JW: Yeah.
MH: Now that, what’s that then?
JW: A biplane.
MH: Yeah.
JW: Where you, you were setting all the angles etcetera and I learned the fifty seven point three method of, of angles.
MH: And what’s, the fifty seven point three method?
JW: Well, if you, if you, you take [reckoning] of fifty seven point three in a circle, make a circle at that radius for every one unit is one degree all the way around the circle.
MH: Right. So —
JW: So, you could set controls, the rudders all that sort of thing by doing that. A mathematical job.
MH: And was there much difference between a biplane which was obviously getting almost obsolete at that point and then the bigger planes that you were working on?
JW: Well, the bigger planes were really had main spars which also held the undercarriage and that sort of thing. And usually there were [pause] they had bomb doors which worked with elastic. Those days the bomb dropped and opened the door [laughs]
MH: Yeah. Ok. So you’d done that initial training.
JW: Yes. And then Halton called me back to do the fitter course and and to give me the full trade because I came out first as an AC. I joined the RAF at AC2 level. So I, my first entry got me an AC1 at, at aircraft engineering level. But my second training I was fourth in the entry of fifty and that got me an LAC recommendation.
MH: What does LAC stand for?
JW: Leading aircraftsman. It’s like a lance corporal in the Army.
MH: And how long had you been in the RAF at that point?
JW: About, well my first course ended on March ’42. My second course I got posted in February ’43 after the end of the second course to Pershore which was another OTU opening up in Gloucestershire. So, and this was another. I was on Wellingtons so it was another Bomber Command area.
MH: And did, when you moved to a different aircraft were there similarities or were they things that you had to get used to all over again?
JW: Yeah. You had to get used to new things but on the second course at Halton they had embraced various changes that were taking place. And also on that second course they’d also embraced little bits about American aircraft as well as British aircraft and I was interested in American aircraft as well as British ones.
MH: So, you were at Pershore.
JW: So, I went to Pershore.
MH: OTU is operational —
JW: 23 OTU.
MH: Operational Training Unit.
JW: Yes. It was just opening up. We had no aircraft at all. The hangar wasn’t open. The workmen were still working on it. The cookhouse was an open cookhouse because that part wasn’t built but we were in the four huts that were built. One of the four huts that were, were starting the unit off. We had no aircraft at all and one arrived about two weeks after I arrived at Pershore. There was, we put it out on a distant little field, picketed it down for the night and we were bombed that night. But it didn’t get the aircraft. It got little bits near to the hangar.
MH: So you, the plane you basically moved the plane away from the main buildings for that reason.
JW: Yes. That’s right. Picketed it down.
MH: Yeah. What sort of strip was it there? Was it hardstanding or was it grass?
JW: Hardstanding.
MH: So it would be tarmac. Tarmac.
JW: Yes. The strip was there and we picketed on one of the, on one of the ends. There were several different areas and we picketed on one of those.
MH: So how long before you started getting more planes?
JW: We then got the planes at about one a week for a few weeks and then two or three a week and these were delivered direct from the manufacturer and our job was to bring them up to standard. Put the turrets in. The extra seating. All the little bits that went in for radar and various things that was coming in. And we dispersed those to other airfields down Gloucestershire and Worcestershire.
MH: So, so it sounds like there was a lot to do to get those planes ready.
JW: Yes. By that time the hangar was going so we had a corner of the hangar that we would be a team. As the aircraft came from the makers they came completely empty with ballast in place of things. So you were getting the ballast out, putting the turrets in in place of the ballast and the various other things that you had to do like second pilot seats and various things. There was cable cutters to put in to the wings in case the Wimpie was flying and had to cut a cable on a balloon.
MH: So how long did that take to get a plane from from you receiving it from the factory to then being ready to to actually start to fly?
JW: Well, it probably on the team turn out one a week once we were geared up to do so.
MH: And how many were on your team?
JW: And there would probably be an engine fitter, an airframe fitter, an electrician would do two or three teams. Same with an instrument man and the radio people came in when they were needed.
MH: Right. So, so you, over a period of time you’ve all had these planes slowly coming from the factory.
JW: And being dispersed.
MH: Yeah.
JW: In Worcestershire and Gloucestershire and at various aerodromes like.
MH: Right.
JW: There was many. So, there was about eight aerodromes down that, all being built.
MH: Yeah.
JW: And —
MH: So, so was Pershore the hub for all these to come in to, in to —
JW: All these.
MH: And you would get them ready.
JW: Yes.
MH: And then you would move them out.
JW: Yeah.
MH: So, so was that basically all your job entailed? Oh, that sounds a bit disrespectful.
JW: Yes, I —
MH: But was that all just basically like a production line of planes coming in and going out.
JW: And going out. Yes.
MH: So was there, was there any flying at Pershore? Was it a flying airfield as well?
JW: Oh yes. It was an airfield, and flew. It had its own aircraft as well.
MH: Right.
JW: Probably about eight I think that got it in two. It was 23 OTU but they got it in A and B Flights or they might have even had C.
MH: Yeah.
JW: But they got about eight aircraft of their own on dispersals which I didn’t take part in.
MH: No.
JW: Because I was in the teams that were shoving them out.
MH: Yeah. So the A and B flights had their own mechanics.
JW: Yeah. They were mechanics rather than fitters.
MH: So, so what was it like fitting, fitting a turret to, how many turrets did you fit into a Wellington then?
JW: Well, the, we were on Wellington 3s and that was the, the advanced turret for the rear end because Wellington bombers you couldn’t get out of the turret excepting back in to the aircraft. It didn’t have enough angle. But the Wellington 3 did and if you had to eject in the air it could turn round and the man could fall out of the turret.
MH: Right.
JW: And bale out.
MH: So how long did you stay at Pershore doing that sort of work?
JW: September ’43. [pause] September ’43 I got a posting to 206 Squadron. They was at Benbecula flying Hudsons but I didn’t get there because I got part way there, as far as Wick, by Aberdeen and they turned me back to Liverpool. Gave me a new warrant to get to Liverpool and then across the water to the Wirral to an Army unit because 206 Squadron Benbecula were breaking up in flights and I was on what was called 8206 which was a Combined Ops Unit and I joined this Army unit as the RAF and some people had come already from Benbecula. There was about fifty of us altogether in the RAF forming up to go to go to, eventually to the Azores but we weren’t given the information.
MH: But you didn’t know where you were going.
JW: We didn’t know where we were going.
MH: So, what was the, so you were there. How many were there from the RAF then?
JW: There was about, well there was supposed to be a thousand RAF, a thousand Army and a thousand Navy.
MH: Right. So it was a big outfit.
JW: Yes. Because where ever we were going it was a Combined Ops Unit. We were, we were liable to have to be under canvas for a certain length of time.
MH: So how long were you? You say you were on the Wirral? Do you know?
JW: Well, about two weeks. We, we had got certain bits of kit and a sten gun and a little bit of training and square mess tins. We had to hand our round tins in for square mess tins.
MH: Were rounds ones particular to the RAF I take it?
JW: No. The round ones were on issue to everybody at that time.
MH: Right.
JW: But the square mess tin fitted the, the ration packs that were coming in.
MH: Yeah.
JW: At that time. So, we had to have a square mess tin.
MH: And you said you got some training with a sten gun so you were taught to shoot were you then?
JW: We were taught to shoot. We were taught a little bit about self-defence. We were taught to use our mess tins and given a mug which was china and needless to say you soon broke the mug.
MH: So, so what, what did you think when suddenly you’d gone from fitting turrets on to Wellingtons to now you’re on the Wirral in this this other unit of soldiers and other, and sailors and suddenly they’re teaching you to fire guns.
JW: Well, we were there about two weeks kitting out etcetera and then we, we joined, they brought us back to Liverpool dock, the Liver Dock and we joined the Franconia which was a troop ship. And that night we sailed across the water to Bangor Harbour where the rest of the people came in. The rest of the three thousand people came in. I was only on a unit of about fifty which was 8206. There were other RAF people around but we did different units.
MH: Did you know where you were going at that point?
JW: No. That, that same evening we must have left Bangor because when we woke up on, on we were below decks and the weather broke up the next morning.
MH: I’m going to just pause there.
[recording paused]
MH: Right. Just to explain to people listening to this recording we’ve just a very important thing which was sorting out lunch for Jim and Pete. So, we’re just starting again. So, you were just at the point where you’d set sail.
JW: We’d sailed.
MH: You were below decks and you woke up the next morning.
JW: We woke up the next morning and we’d come out of Bangor and we were now heading west. Due west. And this went on for about two days and we thought, everyone thought we’re going to Iceland because we were going in that direction. Suddenly we turned left and started in a southerly direction. This went on for about another day and we joined up with a, with a Navy ship. A Destroyer, and he was hovering around us and about four days later we overtook a flotilla of merchant ships that had other Navy ships around them and an aircraft carrier. And at that time our officers were drawn in to tell us that we were going to land in the Azores.
MH: Which was part of Portugal, wasn’t it?
JW: Which was part of Portugal.
MH: A neutral country.
JW: And this was before Winston Churchill had announced anything about this island.
MH: Right.
JW: This, this island was called Terceira. It was a small volcanic island with [barefoots] so we were all given the necessary jabs up our backsides because they were worried about plagues and that sort of thing. And then we arrived on a Sunday afternoon. The, there was a big Navy ship offloading boats to get us from the, from our ship and from the merchant ships to the shore.
MH: I take it there wasn’t a harbour as such then.
JW: On a little harbour called [pause] [unclear] or something like that. It was a little harbour. Anyway, we, we all assembled with our kit and of course the RAF volunteered [laughs] to go as soon as possible and we jumped in to these boats because the sea was rather rough, running at about ten foot, landing craft and got to shore where, where the other people that was before us were receiving all sorts of things ashore. And there was tea laid on but the rest of it was our own rations. So we went on shift. Four hours on two hours off day and night. And that’s how we spent that first night was working for four hours unloading things on the shore and the Army had put up [tents] and tents loosely to an area outside town on the side of a volcano.
MH: Right. So you spent all night unloading and sorting all your stuff out.
JW: Yeah. Well, the next morning 8206 were called together and we, we were told to put our stuff in to a lorry because we were going roughly twenty five mile across country to where we were going to build an Air Force station. We were going to lay plate runway to form a runway and dispersals. We would be in tents for up to a year and we would be on rations, our own rations but two hot meals a day. Breakfast and dinner. There would be no lights. It would just be an encampment in tents. Eight to a tent.
MH: So you started from scratch really.
JW: Yes. And we went over, that day we went over and we started laying, there was no aircraft around. We started laying a strip because the Army was ahead of us in their knocking walls down and things to make an airstrip and that afternoon the Seafires off the aircraft carrier landed on the strip that we’d already prepared.
MH: So you didn’t hang around then. You got it down quick fairly quickly.
JW: Hmmn?
MH: You got, you got your work —
JW: We got enough.
MH: To do that. Yeah.
JW: To land Seafires —
MH: Yeah.
JW: Down in that same afternoon. Because we’d gone first light in the morning and with, as, as strip runway came in we laid it.
MH: Right. How long did it take you to finish laying the full —
JW: Oh well, we were on that as well as our own aircraft. Two days later our aircraft came in from America and we were now on B17s.
MH: So, there’s no, you hadn’t got any British planes as such it was just —
JW: Pardon?
MH: Had you got any British planes there? Bombers or were they —
JW: No. No. No. We had the Seafires. They used, they were on a dispersal and they flew from their own dispersal and they’d somehow or another got one or two people over to help them out. We refuelled from Jerry cans with, because it was all over the wing refuelling and we had no tankers whatsoever. We refuelled from Jerry cans in to a funnel with a, with a filter at the bottom.
MH: It took a bit longer to fill up then normal then.
JW: Oh, good lord, it was. We had no no tanker. A few weeks later, about a fortnight later I went over, I was given civilian overalls to go to the main island to see if we could find a fuel storage unit because Jerry cans were such a pain to refuel with. You know. A five, you could damage the aircraft let alone anything else.
MH: So, you’d got these B17s. were they piloted by American crews?
JW: They, they were piloted by British crews.
MH: Right.
JW: And they were marionised with a radar unit that came down the fuselage and out at the tail wheel. And this was a Canadian unit and they brought one Canadian with them who taught us to, how to polish the wave guide because it was a five inch wave guide and the magnetron was in like a Smith’s biscuit tin which we had to take the lid off every day and polish up the, the prongs.
MH: So was that a particular piece of kit for what they were doing?
JW: No. They —
MH: Or just a general.
JW: The Canadians. It was apparently used for fishing. To find shoals of fish but they’d adapted it to find submarines.
MH: Right.
JW: And so with sonar buoys at strategic places and the mathematics of it all and we had all sorts of radio aerials along the roof of the, of the B17 they could bring in the Navy or the merchant ship, carry their own depth charges if they had to do and find not fish but submarines.
MH: A clever idea. Do you remember what squadron that was?
JW: We were, it was 206 Squadron. We were, we were still 8206 [coughs] because we were like the maintenance team for the squadron.
MH: So, when —
JW: And then about [coughs] that probably went on until about [pause] well I broke a finger just before Christmas and had to have like a tennis racket where it pulled it all out. It did heal in the end so I was, I was in hospital. A Portuguese hospital run, a ward run by the, by the Army or Navy or RAF over Christmas day. But I was only in for about three days after Christmas and when I got back to the unit which was, which the Army had made us like a servicing bay knocking a lump out of, out of the volcano edging because we were like now probably three or four hundred foot above the sea level. When we, when I got back to them there was now 209 Squadron as well as 206 Squadron there so we were getting we had about nine aircraft, B17s, altogether.
MH: And these were all equipped with the same instrumentation to find submarines.
JW: Yes. They had the same. The same sort of kit on and they’d come with the 209 Squadron crews which we, we only saw them come to the aircraft, fly them and that was it and then they’d be gone to where ever they were billeted.
MH: Right. And did, how successful were they at catching submarines? Did you ever get to hear?
JW: Well, I think that it assisted the Navy. They certainly got one submarine as we were coming. The Navy got one submarine as we were coming to land originally because there was subs in that area and they certainly were feeding the subs on the surface and we, because the, the Canary Islands were supplying fuel for all these subs and things.
MH: Right. Because they were under Spain which was fascist, wasn’t it?
JW: They were in Spain you see and we knew that this was happening so we were always overflying that, those areas.
MH: Right.
JW: So, I think they certainly altered the name of the game for, for the ships that were refuelling submarines.
MH: So, it seems to me that at times you were perhaps only aware of what work you were doing. You didn’t see —
JW: Yes.
MH: The pilots flying the planes.
JW: That’s right. Yes.
MH: You didn’t find out how successful. You just did your job.
JW: I did my job. I was sent once to try to get a fuel tanker from the main island which is St Miguel or something like that of the Azores. And that was the only time I’d been at sea again. There was a sergeant sent with me and I was like a lance corporal.
MH: Right. So how long were you in the Azores for? Did that go on for a while?
JW: In, let me see [pause] can I just have a second to look at it?
MH: Of course, you can.
JW: I’ve had to pick this up from my records. [pause] Well, in about April they told us to, to shift all our inventories to 209 Squadron.
MH: This was 1944 at this point.
JW: So, that was 1944. April 1944, because our aircrew had gone back to Blighty and there was only 209 aircrew left on the island now to run these eight or nine B17s. We were told that we were being moved back to Blighty as a squadron. We didn’t know where to but what we knew was we were going back by Skymaster to [pause] to the western side of Africa and then flying on to Blighty by Skymasters because by now the Americans were bringing Skymasters in quite quickly, several a day and even Mitchells were coming through. They were using the airfield as a staging post and incidentally in January a new flotilla of of ships arrived bringing more stuff to the island because we’d been on our own for six months and used up nearly everything we’d brought. So, they’d brought in 209 Squadron servicing crew by ship. They’d brought in all sorts of materials to make decent Nissen huts for people to live in. We were still under canvas and remained under canvas until we moved.
MH: What was the weather like?
JW: Damp. It was the Azores. It’s good, goodish weather. It’ll grow small bananas and that sort of thing but it’s damp and there’s quite a lot of, quite a lot of rain.
MH: So not necessarily the best conditions to be under canvas.
JW: No. No.
MH: Were you aware that point how the war was going elsewhere? What were you hearing?
JW: Yes. We had a newspaper that came around. I think it was originally once a month and now it was probably a weekly one called, “The Azores Times.” I think. And we, we were kept assured of what was going on in Blighty. Anyway, we eventually got home piecemeal between Casablanca and, and the tip of Cornwall where we landed at, the Skymasters landed at St Mawgan. So I was home about May and the, the officer in charge said, ‘Ah, your squadron is at St Eval.’ So, he got me a garrey to get me to St Eval.
MH: Whats a garrey?
JW: A garrey is a lorry.
MH: Right. Right.
JW: To get me to St Eval. And there I, I was back with the rest of the lads. There was, we were the last two to get away from, from Casablanca because it was all done when we could get a flight.
MH: Yeah.
JW: Because there was mostly flights were for officers.
MH: Did you get a chance to have a walk around? Did you get in to town while you were in Casablanca? Did you get to see the sights?
JW: Oh yes. Yes. And I also did some work for the RAF unit because they were putting together American Lightnings as a twin boom Lightnings.
MH: Yeah P38s.
JW: Yes.
MH: So, so you get back to England.
JW: Yes.
MH: Was this just before D-Day and where —
JW: Yes. Yeah. This was about a week before D-Day and I was put on night shift. We lived at Morganporth in a commandeered hotel and we had dry rations. We didn’t have anything to do with St Eval as, as a unit. We were, we were on a dispersal about the furthermost away. They did bring a hot meal in. If you were on days you got it at lunchtime. If you were on nights you got it about two in the morning. So we were always kept. Had a hot meal on site. But we were permanently on site on twelve hours shifts. Twelve on. Twelve off.
MH: So were you with the squadron at this point in time or just with the, like —
JW: Yes. This was 206 Squadron.
MH: Right. Ok.
JW: We’ve now changed to Liberators by the way. We, the aircrew had adapted to Liberators.
MH: And did you have to do much to catch up in terms of work —
JW: Well, it was a question of a Liberator is another aircraft and you get used to knowing that aircraft are aircraft.
MH: And what were you, what was your job at that time? What were you were working on?
JW: Well, again being an LAC I I ran a little team of people.
MH: Right.
JW: About three mechanics. Three or four. Usually an engine mechanic, an air frame mechanic and one wanderer like an electrician or instruments or both.
MH: And what, what operations were the squadron involved in around about at that time?
JW: We were putting an anti-submarine because the Liberators were also anti- submarine. I don’t know quite what type because they didn’t seem to have the same scanners as a B17 so I didn’t know anything about that side of what they were scanning.
MH: And where were, where were—
JW: It must have been some sort of radar.
MH: Yeah. And what areas were they operating?
JW: They, they were covering Brest to the Irish Sea for anti-submarine block.
MH: And, and we were obviously getting around to D-Day at this point in time. Were you aware that that was, happened or, you know, you just carry on as normal? Or did you —
JW: Well, on I think it was the 5th of, was it June? D-Day.
MH: Yeah. 6th of June was the actual —
JW: The 6th. On the night of the 5th I was on duty that night and about five in the morning just as day was breaking there was a flotilla. A flotilla of B17s, Americans all painted up with the white stripes you know and there must have been a couple of hundred come over us at about 5 in the morning. Came over the top of us and flew on towards France. So that must have been the start of D-Day.
MH: And then how did your, how did 206 Squadron sort of carry on doing duty?
JW: We used, on our tannoy system which was separate to the station system if there was sighting of a U-boat they would send the message over and tell us what was happening by the air crew and two or three evenings we were told they were chasing U-boats and dropping DCs.
MH: Depth charges.
JW: Depth charges.
MH: So, so that was almost like a real time. You were told as it was happening.
JW: Yeah. Happening in real time.
MH: They’d relay. They’d relay the radio messages.
JW: Well, we went on for about a week there and then suddenly they said, ‘Well, go and take what you can of your kit. Bring in your kit. Bring in everything you’ve got. Take what you can of ground equipment because you’re going up to Leuchar, Scotland as a part of a unit of 206. Leaving some people in 206 looking after what they were looking after and you’re going up by train to Leuchar to set up a similar system from Leuchar on the North Sea.’
MH: And that’s what you did. And how long did that go on for?
JW: This went, we, we brought our kit in. The train we’d loaded what we could of ground equipment and tools and all that. Things that we think, thought we’d need. And we were at, we went up by slow train to Leuchar. This took about, there was rations put on so we had rations on the way and I think when we got to Leuchar there was a hot meal laid on and we went straight to the flight and some of our aircraft were now landing at Leuchar. Some of the, some of the Liberators were landing at Leuchar and in the Leuchar base was very near the sea because Leuchar is on a small island, just by the golf course and in on the sea front there was the RAF unit that ran MTBs. Motor torpedo boats. So we communicated with them that what would happen. We’d site where, where U-boats were and they would go out and see if they would surrender or, or get DC’d.
MH: And how long were you at Leuchar for?
JW: Probably a fortnight because in Leuchar they were asking, by then they were asking for people to go to India and, and look at the Far East. And there were people, they were looking for people that were single. Not married.
MH: You were still single at that time.
JW: So I was still single at that time so my CO said, ‘Will you volunteer?’ As usual. So, I was on my way then. I got a couple of days leave and down to, I think I went to Morecambe, I’m not sure. And a couple of days leave at home to Morecambe. Morecambe to Southampton by train and I found myself on the way to India at the [pause] when did I go to India? [pause] August 1944.
MH: Right.
JW: End of August. I landed actually in Calcutta. I landed at Worli. That’s the old, the old what’s it called now? In India.
MH: I’m not sure.
JW: Worli.
MH: I’m not sure about Worli because they’ve gone back to the original names not the anglicised names, haven’t they?
JW: Ceylon. Not.
MH: Oh, Sri Lanka are you on about? Sri Lanka? No.
JW: No. What’s Hollywood in [pause] Bollywood.
MH: Yeah.
JW: What town was that?
MH: I’m not sure to be honest. My Indian knowledge is not that good.
JW: I landed on that side of India.
MH: Yeah. Right.
JW: Caught a train across to Calcutta which wasn’t —
MH: It wasn’t Bombay. You’re not on about Bombay, are you?
JW: Bombay, landed Bombay. Worli. Caught a train the next day. A troop train going to Calcutta and we pushed it half the way.
MH: The train?
JW: It was a troop train so you’d, you’d go about four hours, five hours, something like that, all disembark for a hot cup of tea and your rations for that day. So you were still living on rations. Anyway, when I got to Calcutta I was posted to Dum Dum which was the Calcutta race course at that time. Now, it’s the airport but at that time it was just the racecourse. I was posted to a little unit called [pause] what was it called? Air Salvage and Servicing. It had three Dakotas that were all being modified to carry stuff externally as well as internally. And I was given my corporal tapes whilst I was on that unit because you couldn’t get permanent corporal. You could only be an LAC permanent. So each unit you went to you’d got to qualify to be an acting corporal.
MH: So what was, what was this air salvage —
JW: Air Salvage Unit. I joined a team, or I was in charge of a team as an acting corporal and we, we would be responsible for taking stuff in to the Burma area that was needed by squadrons. For instance on one occasion we, we took a, there was other teams taking things like Spitfires to pieces. We used to split the the Spitfire in to the engine, attach the prop off, the tail off and the empennage and one, one wing upside down with a fairing on the front hung by cables between, underneath the Dakota. The Spitfire we would fit inside the fuselage with the engine in the open doors which we dispersed with so we were now have got half of a Spitfire into a Dakota. We, we would go from Dum Dum to Agartala which was in Assam, north of the river, refuel and then fly on and in this particular instance to an airfield that you couldn’t get to in daytime because of volcanoes and things ad drop in there, offload my part of the gear. The pilot who was a Polish pilot that he had no, no navigational aids whatsoever. We, we used to fly, I used to fly with him and just follow the route that he told me to follow. Followed either a river or a railway line and just watch what was going on or fly a course where I was keeping to a course.
MH: And then, obviously you dropped off this Spitfire. Did you then bring —
JW: He came back for the other half.
MH: Right.
JW: And that would arrive the next morning.
MH: And then you had to put it together.
JW: And my, by that time we’d put as much of the Spitfire together with three of us as we could get together.
MH: Yeah. And was that something you did for quite a while in India?
JW: I did. I did Imphal Valley once. I did a lot of various drops. I worked for 31 Squadron for quite a while.
MH: What sort of squadron were they? Were they —
JW: They were another Dakota squadron.
MH: Right.
JW: That were supplying Chindits —
MH: Right.
JW: And people like the Chindits in, in Burma with mules. We even took mules in one day. I I wasn’t on that aircraft. That was one of our other aircraft.
MH: So how long did you stay in India for?
JW: Well, I, I was, I also did a trip from, starting at Agartala where, where I picked up a train load of Hurricanes because we couldn’t get the Hurricane. The Hurricane’s built differently to the Spitfire. You can’t get it in to a Dakota. You can get a wing on but you can’t get an outer wing. You can put on but you can’t get the centre section so we were taking Hurricanes and various other spares back to India to Kanpur which was the MU that put them together again. And this was a two week journey. Caught the, picked up the train and my rations and a sten gun. A colleague, there was two, always two of us on the train and apart from sten guns we had, we picked up a long range rifle. A Garand rifle for long distance shooting if, if we were being attacked. We would then go Cox’s Bazaar. Pick up some more kit there. Chittagong. Worked our way to the Brahmaputra point where the train would be offloaded and loaded on to barges and go up the Brahmaputra for about seven or eight hours to another port on the right hand side for, for narrow gauge use.
MH: Yes.
JW: And from there we would go, go to, to Kanpur and the whole journey would take about seven days if you were lucky. If you were unlucky it could take up to a fortnight.
MH: And when did you get back to the, get back to England then? How long before —
JW: Well, from that I went, I was on Ramree Island which is an island off Burma with 31 Squadron when the war ended. When the atom bomb, the second atom bomb dropped. And we were told to go to Mingaladon and be on, everybody at Mingaladon which was the bottom of Burma to wait for the Viceroy of India to come in and take the surrender which happened the next morning. We were all lined up. All the squadrons around were lined up along one side and in came the York with, with the Viceroy of India on. He got killed in Ireland, didn’t he?
MH: Lord Mountbatten.
JW: Lord Mountbatten. Yes. He took the salute from the, from the Japanese who gave him all the swords etcetera. And then we moved on. We, we were given the task of looking after 31 Squadron. I was now with 31 Squadron. Still on attachment [laughs] We, we were given Siam, Sumatra, land at Singapore but don’t take the salute there. And then go on to Java and Borneo. So I ended up in Java running, running B Flight aeroplanes. About four. Four aeroplanes and I had a crew of about two fitters and two, two engine men. And that’s when my release came through for Class B demob. So, the next morning I’d got my kit packed and an A Flight aircraft flew me back to Singapore. I I mounted a boat, got a boat from there to Southampton and was demobbed at Hednesford.
MH: And what date was that? Can you remember?
JW: 9th of the 3rd ’46.
MH: Right. Right. I understand, I don’t think your time in the RAF quite finished then, did it? Although you’d been demobbed.
JW: No. No. I I was discharged to complete my apprenticeship as a civvy which I did. I found I was then on a half a crown an hour for a fully fledged joiner. And I enquired of the firm I was working for, ‘What was my promotion? Would I get promotion?’ He said, ‘Well, when —' such and such dies —' he was about fifty at the time, I was about twenty two or four, something like that. ‘When he dies you or Johnny will get the job,’ because there was two of us. An Army lad that had done much the same as I had. So, I’d, I had notice from the Air Force that I could join for five years. Or four years or something of that nature and get my tapes back. So I wrote to the RAF. I’d done this prior to finishing my time. My civilian time. I wrote to the RAF and got a guarantee that I would be promoted to substantive corporal for the jobs that I’d done as an acting corporal and they gave me this. They said yes you will be but you’ll have to do three months on the job to prove that you’re capable.
MH: So, what squadron did you go back in to?
JW: So I went back to Swinderby for a four years, four year enlistment and that gave me a hundred and twenty five quid.
MH: And what, what did you do when you went back then? A similar sort of thing?
JW: Well, they had Wellington 20s by that time. Navigation. They were doing training navigation in Bomber Command. 17 OTU they were so they were Bomber Command again. And I was there until January ’51 in Swinderby. In 17 OTU.
MH: So what, what was your role then? What were you doing there?
JW: Again, I was what they called the piece of wind section which was the air and the, and the hydraulics. I ran a little section of of about three bodies. We did tyres as well. We did hydraulics. I did a little bit of work producing a better ground equipment than, than at that time we had because the RAF was very very short of decent ground equipment. So I’d mounted, because we were, we needed high pressure air on the Wellington 20s.
MH: Yeah. Was it different post-war than during the war? Was there a different atmosphere?
JW: It was gradually getting back to Wednesdays off you know. Wednesday afternoon was sports day and the, it just so happened that I met my wife at that time because the, the old diversion air field for Swinderby was Wigsley. And Wigsley was being used in the huts for people that had been in Germany for —
MH: Displaced persons.
JW: Displaced persons, and my wife was a displaced person.
MH: Right.
JW: That had recently come over and it just so happened I’d, we were doing circuits and bumps on the airfield and I’d sent one of my men over to do backstay checks on, once they’d landed you had to make sure the geometric lock was in the correct place before they could take off again and he said, ‘Hey, there’s a load of women over there.’ So off we went on our motorbikes.
MH: Right. So I understand at some point in time you worked on the Vulcan.
JW: Yes.
MH: Was that towards the end of your time?
JW: Well, [pause] where was I?
MH: You said you were at Swinderby until about 1950, weren’t you? Something like that.
JW: Yes. ’51. I’d done training courses to take Meteor 3s out to, out to Singapore. Unfortunately, the Makarios war took all our aircraft so although the Meteor 3s were on a boat loaded for Singapore we couldn’t get to them. So Singapore did their own lot and put the Meteor 3s in. But we were on posting anyway to Singapore as a unit and in January ’51 I landed in Singapore as a unit but because the Meteor 3s had been put in to service we were given another job in Singapore on Sunderlands which was another aircraft I didn’t know.
MH: No.
JW: And 205 and 220 Squadron were the squadrons but I was put in to the Maintenance Unit to bring up a beached aircraft. And it was at that point I got a wound on my left foot because putting, getting the thing up slip. They’re the last thing. You bring it up back to front and the last thing that happened was that the tow on one side towed before the other side, pulled the aircraft around with the ground equipment over my foot. That caused me problems that I still suffer today. We, we did Singapore, posted back to UK and to Stradishall. And it was from Stradishall that I I got my legs mended from the ‘51 thing in ’53. I I had them mended at, at an RAF hospital that near to Cambridge. I was at Stradishall in ’44 and was called to Melksham to go on to V bombers because my Fitter 1 training way back in my marriage days of ’48 was to Yatesbury to be a Fitter 1. Now, it had taken that time to sort out what the Fitter 1 really should be as an ASC and it was Melksham that we were sent to for coursing. And then on to AV Roes because again I passed out about fourth in the entry so we had the choice of aircraft. There was about fifty on the course but only the first ten went either on to Vulcans or Victors.
MH: So, so a massive —
JW: I chose Vulcans.
MH: Why did you choose Vulcans?
JW: Because it’s a better aircraft.
MH: Better in what way?
JW: Better in, even the Mark 1 which I had was a better aircraft. A much steadier aircraft for bombing.
MH: So you thought it was a better aircraft to maintain was it?
JW: A better aircraft all round. All the way round.
MH: Yeah.
JW: There was one advantage that the other aircraft had, the Victor had, was powered by by 220 volts rather than, rather than a 112 volt battery. That was the only advantage that I saw.
MH: Yeah.
JW: In that, but the Mark 2 Vulcan became a 220 anyway.
MH: So how long did you remain in the RAF for, Jim?
JW: Well, I remained on Vulcan 1s and XH477 was my allocated aircraft. I took that on board and flew with it on many occasions as ASC.
MH: Actually, in the plane.
JW: Oh yes.
MH: Yeah.
JW: Yes. Well, you’d, if the aircraft was on a given operation I could not fly with it. If the aircraft was on what they called a lone ranger or going to do a job like Butterworths which is the other side of Malaya or Australia or, for instance we did the George Ward’s thing in Rio de Janeiro and, and we did [pause] we inaugurated a president in Buenos Aires as well. So on those flight an ASC flew with the aircraft as the sixth seat.
MH: Just in case you needed to do maintenance while it was out there.
JW: Yes. Well, we usually took a servicing crew as well. These were Hermes aircraft for Buenos Aires. We’d take two Hermes with crews on board. Some for training for the actual inauguration because they, our second pilot was an AVM.
MH: Air Vice Marshall.
JW: Hmnn?
MH: Air Vice Marshall. AVM.
JW: Air Vice Marshall. A one-handed man that had lost his hand during the war. In Spitfire presumably. We were very [pause] we did those sorts of operations with ASC on the sixth seat so I I think I flew mostly most of the hours in my aircraft than any other crew. Eventually, I was given the chance of going on Mark 2s but I I sent my PV3 back to Air Ministry saying I was leaving the Air force in less than two years. So they called me to Air Ministry to query why and I explained that I I was really in a position where I had to find a civilian job that suited me. And I had already done twenty two years so wanted to be clear of the Air Force inside another three years. And I didn’t want to go on Mark 2s for that reason. So I was given the opportunity of handing my aircraft to what was my second dickie now which I did and going on SFTT work for [pause] for, for until I left the Air Force. Until I found a suitable job which I did with ICL.
MH: Where was that? In Stoke on Trent?
JW: In Stoke. And I found, I found the job with English Electric Leo Marconi which became a part of ICL. So I was initially at Kidsgrove in the electrical huts on the opposite site.
MH: Using a lot of skills that you learned in the RAF?
JW: Yeah. I was, well when the, when ICL was formed the name of the game was different because I I’d gone in using RAF skills and and various things but I was now offered a management job in ICL to look after the field problems of ICL. Forming and getting rid of various little units that had joined, made up ICL and making bigger units like the Arndale Centre at Manchester where I took eleven top floors in the Arndale Centre. Eleven to twenty two.
MH: Right.
JW: Without lifts initially.
MH: I can imagine. I think that you’ve told me an absolutely fascinating story of a lad from Burton who was going to be a carpenter. Doesn’t seem to ever have been much of a carpenter because he spent most of his time in the RAF but I suppose as you say you got a trade but —
JW: Yeah. Well, my, my trade fitted me up fine for ICL work.
MH: Yeah.
JW: In the field.
MH: So is there anything else from your RAF time you want to tell me about? Have we covered most of —
JW: I left in 1966. October. And I had a good, a good twenty two years with, with ICL.
MH: Afterwards —
JW: And manage with three pensions.
MH: Yeah.
JW: With them as well as an RAF pension.
MH: Right. That, that’s great. I’ve got no questions to ask. I said I’ll be writing some notes down but you did say that you could talk and you’ve just, you’ve told me all I want —
JW: Well, I’ve had to refer to this because I can’t remember it.
MH: No.
JW: I highlighted all the areas that were Bomber Command.
MH: Yeah. Yeah. No that’s great. Jim, can I thank you for giving your time? You’ve talked for about an hour and a half then. That’s brilliant.
JW: Well, I’m afraid that’s twenty two years.
MH: You’ve done very well to keep it —
JW: Of RAF.
MH: Yeah. So, so thank you very much. Thank you for all your service and thank you for your time today. The time is 12.48. I’m going to turn the recorder off in a second. I just need you to sign a form and then you two guys —
JW: Right.
MH: Can go and get dinner because I suppose you’re hungry. So thank you very much for your time and thank you very much for, for letting me speak to you today.
Dublin Core
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Interview with Jim Wildes
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Martyn Horndern
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IBCC Digital Archive
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2018-08-29
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AWildesJE180829, PWildesJE1801
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:33:21 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Jim was born in July 1923 in Burton on Trent and was the eldest of six children. His father served in the First World War. When Jim left school aged 14, he joined the Boys Brigade which had a Royal Air Force section and he had the chance to fly in a Tiger Moth. He trained to be an apprentice joiner and carpenter and worked with his grandfather who was a master joiner. He then joined Sharp Bros & Knight, timber and joinery manufacturers. When he was about 17, the Boys Brigade sent him to RAF Cardington for an air crew interview, which he failed due to ear problems. He then took the exam and was recommended to be a voluntary reserve.
When Jim was about 18, he was called up to go to RAF Halton for aircraft training, after which he was sent for further training at RAF Abingdon Operational Training Unit on Hampden and Witney aircraft. He was then sent back to RAF Halton to do a fitter course and then posted to 23 Operational Training Unit at RAF Pershore working on Wellingtons. After training Jim became a leading aircraftman. In September 1943 Jim was posted to 206 Squadron on the Wirral for about two weeks. The outfit totalled about 1,000 people from the Air Force, Army and Navy. His unit was then sent to the Liverpool docks to join the troop ship Laconia heading for Bangor and then on to Azores where 8206 Maintenance Unit built an Air Force station and runway. They stayed in tents with eight people for up to a year. Over Christmas Jim was in a Portuguese hospital for about three days with a broken finger. The unit went to Casablanca then to Cornwall just before D-Day. He was put on night shift at RAF St Mawgan with 206 Squadron working on Liberators. Following a trip to Scotland they were posted at Dundee with an air salvaging and servicing unit. Here he was made acting corporal and worked with 31 Dakota Squadron. When the war ended, he was flown to Singapore, got a boat to Southampton and was discharged to complete his apprenticeship as a joiner. Jim re-joined the Air Force and went back to RAF Swinderby for four years working on Wellingtons. There he met his future wife. In 1951 the unit went to Singapore to work on Sunderlands before being posted back home. Jim left in 1966 and worked for AV Roe until joining ICL in a management job.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Bedfordshire
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Lincolnshire
England--Oxfordshire
England--Wirral
Scotland
Scotland--Dundee
Azores
North Africa
Morocco
Morocco--Casablanca
Singapore
England--Lancashire
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1943-09
1943-12
1966
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Julie Williams
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
10 OTU
206 Squadron
23 OTU
31 Squadron
B-17
B-24
C-47
ground personnel
Hampden
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Operational Training Unit
RAF Abingdon
RAF Cardington
RAF Halton
RAF Pershore
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Swinderby
Sunderland
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
Whitley
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/358/9540/LHayleyCA1463437v1.1.pdf
1d7dfc7af85642fd8b30ffce42664f2b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hayley, Jack
Jack Hayley
C A Hayley
Cecil A Hayley
Description
An account of the resource
Eight items. Collection consists of a log book, an interview and other items concerning Flight Lieutenant Cecil 'Jack' Alison Hayley DFC. Items include photographs of aircraft and people, a letter concerning his Distinguished Flying Cross and well as newspaper cuttings concerning operations, his wedding and the award of the Distinguished Flying Cross. After training he completed tours on 625 Squadron at RAF Kelstern, then 170 Squadron at RAF Hemswell before going on to a bomber defence training flight flying Hurricanes and Spitfires.
This collection was donated by Jack Hayley and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Hayley, CA
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-25
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jack Hayley’s Royal Canadian Air Force pilots flying log book
Description
An account of the resource
Pilots flying log book for Jack Hayley, covering the period from 9 June 1942 to 30 June 1950. Detailing his flying training, operations flown and post war flying. He was stationed at, RAF Newquay, RAF Clyffe Pypard, RAF Heaton Park, RCAF Moncton, RCAF Dewinton, RCAF Estevan, RAF Harrogate, RAF Bournmouth, RAF Little Rissington, RAF Windrush, RAF Docking, RAF Madley, RAF Peplow, RAF Sandtoft, RAF Hemswell, RAF Kelstern, RAF Dunholme Lodge, RAF Peterborough, RAF Scampton, RAF Defford and RAF Celle. Aircraft flown were, Magister, Tiger Moth, Stearman, Anson II, Oxford, Dominie, Wellington, Halifax, Lancaster, Master, Spitfire, Hurricane, Lincoln, York, Hoverfly, Prentice, Tudor, Meteor, Devon, Mosquito, Harvard, Vampire, Wayfarer, Firefly, Canberra, Brigand, Valetta, Auster, Hastings, Athena and Shackleton. He flew a total of 31 operations, 8 daylight and 4 night operations with 625 Squadron and two daylight and 17 night with 170 Squadron. Targets in Germany and France were, Le Havre, Frankfurt, Rheine-Siezbergen, Eikenhorst, Calais, Neuss, Fort Frederick, Duisberg, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, Cologne, Bochum, Duren, Wanne-Eickel, Frieberg, Karlsruhe, Leuna, Essen, Ludwigshaven, Ulm, Osterfeld, Nurnberg, Munich, Merseburg-Leuna and Zeitz. He flew as a second pilot on operations with Flight Lieutenant Banks and Flying Officer Eckel.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Connock
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One booklet
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
LHayleyCA1463437v1
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1944-09-05
1944-09-06
1944-09-12
1944-09-13
1944-09-17
1944-09-20
1944-09-23
1944-09-25
1944-09-26
1944-10-11
1944-10-14
1944-10-15
1944-10-19
1944-10-20
1944-10-27
1944-10-30
1944-10-31
1944-11-01
1944-11-02
1944-11-03
1944-11-04
1944-11-05
1944-11-16
1944-11-18
1944-11-19
1944-11-27
1944-11-28
1944-12-04
1944-12-06
1944-12-07
1944-12-12
1944-12-15
1944-12-17
1944-12-31
1945-01-02
1945-01-05
1945-01-07
1945-01-08
1945-01-14
1945-01-15
1945-01-16
1945-01-17
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
France
Great Britain
Germany
Alberta--De Winton
England--Gloucestershire
England--Hampshire
England--Herefordshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Norfolk
England--Shropshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
France--Calais
France--le Havre
Germany--Bochum
Germany--Celle
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Düren (Cologne)
Germany--Essen
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Freiburg im Breisgau
Germany--Karlsruhe
Germany--Leuna
Germany--Ludwigshafen am Rhein
Germany--Merseburg
Germany--Munich
Germany--Neuss
Germany--Nuremberg
Germany--Osterfeld
Germany--Rheine
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Ulm
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Zeitz
New Brunswick--Moncton
Germany--Duisburg
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
England--Cornwall (County)
Saskatchewan--Estevan
Germany--Düsseldorf
New Brunswick
Saskatchewan
Alberta
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
1667 HCU
170 Squadron
625 Squadron
83 OTU
83 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
bombing
Dominie
Flying Training School
Halifax
Halifax Mk 5
Harvard
Heavy Conversion Unit
Hurricane
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancaster Mk 1
Lancaster Mk 3
Lincoln
Magister
Meteor
Mosquito
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
RAF Clyffe Pypard
RAF Defford
RAF Dunholme Lodge
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kelstern
RAF Little Rissington
RAF Madley
RAF Peplow
RAF Peterborough
RAF Sandtoft
RAF Scampton
RAF Windrush
RCAF Estevan
Shackleton
Spitfire
Stearman
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/957/9613/SMathersRW55201v10009.2.jpg
09785a570bbe3c25830d11616a069f50
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mathers, Ronald. Album
Description
An account of the resource
45 page scrapbook of Squadron life and The Goodwill Tour to the United States by 35 Squadron in 1946. It includes photographs, newspaper cuttings, and programmes. The tour visited stations on both the East and West coasts of the United States and the airmen were entertained with visits to Hollywood.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SMathersRW55201v1
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-17
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Operation Goodwill
Description
An account of the resource
A map of North America with a route plotted on it. Airfields visited are listed from Gravely and back. It is captioned '"Operation Goodwill" 8th July to 29th Aug 1946.'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One printed map with handwritten annotations.
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Map
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SMathersRW55201v10009
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Azores
Canada
Great Britain
United States
California
Colorado
Massachusetts
Missouri
Texas
Washington (D.C.)
California--Los Angeles
Colorado--Denver
England--Cambridgeshire
Massachusetts--West Springfield
New York (State)
Newfoundland and Labrador
Texas--San Antonio
England--Cornwall (County)
Illinois--Belleville
Illinois
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07
1946-08
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
RAF Graveley
RAF St Mawgan
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/957/9617/SMathersRW55201v10013.1.jpg
62dc1dd5e3ac330ddb12b243416747ed
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mathers, Ronald. Album
Description
An account of the resource
45 page scrapbook of Squadron life and The Goodwill Tour to the United States by 35 Squadron in 1946. It includes photographs, newspaper cuttings, and programmes. The tour visited stations on both the East and West coasts of the United States and the airmen were entertained with visits to Hollywood.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SMathersRW55201v1
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-17
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lancaster formation and airmen
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is 12 Lancasters in formation. It is captioned 'The Squadron en-route from Graveley to St Mawgan. 8th July 1947'.
Photograph 2 is five airmen standing at the rear door of their Lancaster. It is captioned '(we pose in front of aircraft at the slightest provocation) After landing at St Mawgan'.
Photograph 3 is an airman standing in front of a trellis captioned 'The Gardens Port du Vittoria'. and 'LAGENS 9th/10th July.'
Photograph 4 is three airmen posing against a wall captioned 'Different Dress - same service various fashions as worn for the "esplanade" at Port du Vittoria'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-07-08
1946-07-09
1946-07-10
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SMathersRW55201v10013
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Azores
England--Cambridgeshire
England--Cornwall (County)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07-08
1946-07-09
1946-07-10
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Four b/w photographs on a scrapbook page
aircrew
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
RAF Graveley
RAF St Mawgan
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/998/9968/PWardEM16010037.2.jpg
abbd0af13470ac8e363a72c960a58447
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Ward, Mary. Album
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-14
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Ward, EM
Description
An account of the resource
42 items. The album concerns the work of 517 Squadron Meteorological Flight at RAF Shawbury, RAF Chivenor and RAF Brawdy. It contains photographs of aircraft and staff at work and on leave.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Epicure, a magic name,
You'll never get the gen again
For 517's dead and gone,
In truth to tell you'v[character deleted]e had it John.
You'll have to do your forecasts now
Without the griff from aircraft's prow,
Unless St. Eval take it over
And do the trip from Cornwall's clover.
But we were bred on Brawdy's runways
Tougher far than Devon's sunways;
Cloud and rain our foster mothers
Yet our sorties out did others.
Morn [sic] ye, then for 517
Know it [word deleted] as a Met man's heaven;
Others may try to do the trick
But none will ever be as slick.
We wish you luck without our aid
Better forecasts may be made
Without it-
But I doubt it.
R. Butler World copyright
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Epicure a magic name
Description
An account of the resource
A five verse poem recording the end of 517 Squadron's meteorological flights.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One typewritten sheet on an album page
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Poetry
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PWardEM16010037
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
P Butler
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Devon
England--Cornwall (County)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Frances Grundy
517 Squadron
arts and crafts
RAF Brawdy
RAF St Eval