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Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Trapp, Sylvia
Sylvia Vera Trapp
S V Trapp
Description
An account of the resource
Five items. An oral history interview with Sylvia Trapp (nee Needham) (b. 1922, 488420 Royal Air Force) and four photographs. She served as a wireless operator in the Women's Auxiliary Air Force at RAF Waddington.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Sylvia Trapp and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-05
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Trapp, SV
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AM: Ok, so today is Tuesday the 5th of April and this is Annie Moody for the International Bomber Command Centre and today I am with Sylvia Trapp and we are at Sylvia’s home in Mansfield. And Sylvia was a WAAF so we are going to get Sylvia’s story now. And just to start, no, go.
ST: I wasn’t Trapp until the end of the war.
AM: Right, I’ll get your maiden, well, right, you tell me then if we start off with your maiden name.
ST: Needham.
AM: Leedham.
ST: Needham.
AM: Needham. Needham. Ok. And we’ve already got your date of birth so we know that you are ninety four.
ST: Ninety four.
AM: Ninety four and can you tell me where you were born, Sylvia?
ST: I was born in Mansfield, 216 Victoria Street. Mansfield.
AM: Right, there we are. What did your parents do?
ST: My dad was a miner. My mum, before she was married, worked at the Lawn Mills.
AM: Right. And what, did you have brothers or sisters?
ST: I’ve got, I had two brothers and two sisters. My brother, John Thomas was the oldest, and he worked at Hermitage Hosiery factory, on Hermitage Lane. And my next brother Fred, he worked, he was a butcher, [unclear] the butcher on Regents Street and my sister Eirene she worked at the Hermitage Hosiery factory and me, I worked, oh, I went, Hosiery Mills, I was in the sales office [unclear]. But before, the war started, I worked at the Quartex, up Sutton Road, a big hosiery mills that was owned by Germans. And when the war started, they turned it into a munition place.
AM: Right.
ST: And that’s where I worked, yeah.
Am: Where did you go to school?
ST: I went to Moor Lane School and then up to High Oakham School.
AM: And how old would you be when you left?
ST: How old, fifteen when I left.
AM: Fifteen?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Right.
ST: Then I went to work at the hosiery mills.
AM: Yeah. What did you do there?
ST: I was in the quality control.
AM: Right. Checking the stockings.
ST: No, jumpers.
AM: Oh, it was jumpers. Alright.
ST: And I didn’t tell you, the Germans, when the munition came to the Quartex, the Germans were taken away, the boss was taken away and they were on the way to being deported to Canada and the boat was sunk by a U-boat. So after that
AM: But you were there from being fifteen?
ST: I’m trying to think, I
AM: Cause
ST: Yes, I worked at the Quartex from being fifteen. Then when I grew up to twenty I, my brothers had been called up, Tom went first, then Fred, then my sister went and she went into the Air Force and I asked if I could go into the Air Force and they wouldn’t let me. But I did. They wouldn’t let me join my sister where she was, they kept us apart and I went into the Air Force and we had to meet, we had to meet this officer on Nottingham Station and there was about ten of us, all met on the station and they took us down to Innsworth in Gloucester and then we did the basic training and we had to sit these written exams, and everybody was being allocated and then he told me to stand on one side and there was about six of us had to stand on one side, and we kept wandering, what on earth are we going to do? Anyway he came to us and he says, I’ve chosen you because I think I can rely on you. As you know, we are losing men and they are getting very short, and I’m going to put you onto a man’s job, he says, and I put my faith in you, that you will be able to do it. Then we were allocated to, I was sent to Bottesford, was sent to Bottesford and we, no, no, that’s wrong, I was, we were sent to Compton Bassett and we learned all about radio, how to send messages and code words and things like that and we did about five weeks there and then went up to Blackpool to learn the Morse code and I was there from, I can’t remember how long I was there but we learned the Morse code and how to print, you know, the messages and what have ye and after that I was sent to Bottesford and from Bottesford I stayed there for a while and then I was moved to Waddington.
US: You know Bottesford, was that the Bomber Command base? Were you actually on a base?
ST: Yeah. Isn’t it a base now?
US: Bottesford, no, it’s just fields. So, you were actually sent to Bottesford?
ST: Yes.
US: As a wireless
ST: Wireless operator.
US: Operator.
ST: Yeah. You know, Bottesford is not on the map now, then?
US: Well, Bottesford is on the map, but it’s not a Bomber Command base, it’s not an RAF base anymore.
ST: Oh, ok.
US: So, what happened when you got to Bottesford, obviously there were Lancasters or Stirling bombers flying from there.
ST: Ah, there were Stirling, yeah.
US: Stirling. Yeah.
ST: There weren’t Lancasters and then we were sent to Waddington and I think that was, was that an Australian base? I can’t remember. There were Australians.
US: 44 Squadron. Yeah. There could have been Australians there.
ST: Anyway I was there and
AM: Can I ask you about the training. You know when you said you did the training, and first on the radios and the Morse code, what was it like doing that?
ST: Oh, you know, I was a bit, I was really scared going into the Air Force. I’ve never been away from home before in my life and anyway, it was, no, I thought I was determined to prove to him that I could do it so I
AM: I’m on this job.
ST: Yeah. Yeah, I thought, if they can do it, we can do it, sort of thing.
AM: So, what was it like, how did you start to learn how to, the wireless?
ST: Wait, that was down in Compton Bassett.
AM: Compton Bassett, yeah.
ST: Yeah, no, we had classes, we had to march to classes, used to play these [unclear] marches, you know, we marched to class and but they were mixed classes, mixed, and yeah, we, they taught us how to sort radios out and
AM: What do you mean by sort them out? You mean, built them into bits and put them back together?
ST: Yeah, if there was any wires lose to solder them on, you know, we were taught all that and then, I think I can’t remember how long we were there but it must have been weeks. And then once we were able to do that, they sent us up to Blackpool and
AM: Where did you stay in Blackpool? In digs?
ST: Private digs, you know, like boarding houses and she was very strict, we had to be in at ten o’clock at night. Well, you know the ballroom where we used to go dancing and what [unclear] and there was every nationality in the world, out of Europe and everywhere and so
AM: What did you get up to then?
ST: So, we used to take it in turns to, if anybody didn’t go they would unlatch the window down, one of the windows so we would get into the window [laughs] and, yeah, she was very strict she was. But I guess she had to be, you know
AM: Were you all girls in your boarding house?
ST: Yeah, we were all girls. Yes.
AM: What was it, what was the ball dancing like then?
ST: Oh, it was marvellous, you had that many partners when you were dancing, you know. You never did a dance with one person, you were excused and then next one.
AM: They cut in all the time.
ST: Oh, we had a lovely time there, yeah.
AM: What did you, did you have to go in uniform or could you put a dress on?
ST: No, I went in uniform.
AM: In uniform. Smart girls in uniform.
ST: Yeah. I don’t think, I don’t think we were allowed to go in
AM: I don’t know
ST: I can’t remember that. Or perhaps I didn’t have any [layghs]
AM: Maybe not. Did you have to do marching up and down the front? I know the men did.
ST: Yeah, that’s right, yeah. [unclear] uniform. Yeah, we had a great time there.
AM: And you said this was the first time you had been away from home as well.
ST: Yeah. When I was down in Gloucester, I wasn’t the only one who cried all time [laughs] but you could hear everybody crying. You know, cause I suppose we all lived in the same boat and. But then, after Blackpool, I really enjoyed that and I, when we passed our, we had to sit these exams and pass them and
AM: Was it, when you said sitting the exams, was it a written exam or did you have to literally put a radio together and
ST: Oh, we did that, yes. After we’d been taught, we did that, yes. We had to do that. It sort of got into me then, you know, I knew I’d got to do this sort of thing though. That was great.
AM: Did anybody not manage it? Could you not
ST: Yeah, yeah, quite a lot, yeah.
AM: So what happened to them?
ST: They were put to other jobs. Maybe in the cook house or driving or something like that. Yeah, they [unclear] dropped down, yeah. After we, when we got to Blackpool, we learned the Morse, you know, it was, we were there way to go at eight o’clock in the morning, we’d have Morse all day, it was headphones on and in fact when we used to go home on the train, every time I passed a station, I’d been doing it in Morse. I must admit, I began to enjoy life after that, yeah. And then, after, Bottesford, I guess, then Waddington, and then, oh, I know, then I was in the air traffic control, you know, in the air traffic [unclear]
AM: At Waddington.
ST: And there was Canadians, they were all Canadians and the sergeant Canadian in charge said to me one day, I’d like you to come with me, as you are going to learn something new today so we went into this great, this hangar, you know how big hangars are, and they’d fixed up, there was sort of a line, oh, on the floor was a big map of Newark and Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire and the rivers were all in like silver foil and the bush, the trees, they’d made like little trees, so that you looked at the land from up there sort of thing and they’d got this wire going along and this machine, supposed to be the aircraft I should think
AM: In the air.
ST: And as it went over the, they were able to see what they were bombing, if you know, you could [unclear]
AM: Like a bird’s-eye view.
ST: Yes. That’s right, yeah. And that was interesting but there were all aircrew and me and this sergeant, I was, I think I was scared, you know, petrified, cause he asked me to switch something on and I couldn’t move, where is it? I forgot. And, because he’d showed me but I forgot and then this nice young Scottish man came and he did it for me.
AM: I’ll see about the Scottish man in a minute. Just, let’s go back to the beginning of Waddington. How did, so you’ve done your radio training, you’ve done your Morse training, how did they then decide where they were going to send you? Did you just, were you just told where you were going?
ST: We were just told, yeah.
AM: So you were told Waddington.
ST: Yeah.
AM: How did you get to Waddington then?
ST: Do you know, I can’t remember.
AM: No?
ST: I guess they took as there, yeah.
AM: Yeah? And what was it like when you got there? What did you think when you saw it? How did it look like?
ST: Strange. We had to go up a spiral staircase to, you know, up into the air traffic control [unclear].
US: So you operated out of the control tower?
ST: Yeah.
US: Were you actually talking to the bomber crews?
ST: No, no, no. They, as I say, they are all Canadians and
AM: Yeah, describe what you actually did in the tower.
ST: What we did, I just sat at this table with earphones on and received messages and sent messages.
AM: Received them from where? From whom?
ST: From the aircraft.
AM: From the aircraft.
US: So you didn’t [unclear] Morse code?
AM: So you’re receiving the message in Morse
ST: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: And you’re translating it and
ST: I didn’t translate it, I just passed it on.
AM: No. You just passed it on. By radio.
ST: Well, to the sergeant in the room. The sergeant and officers in the room. Mostly it was the sergeant that dealt with us and
US: So the aircraft would send a message back to Waddington in Morse
ST: I would take it down
US: So and the radio operator in the plane is tapping out a message in Morse, which you receive and then it’s passed on to be deciphered. So [unclear] plane
AM: So, did you know what the messages were saying or did you not have time to even think about that?
ST: Not a clue
AM: How long were your shifts? What were the shifts like?
ST: Eight till four. Four till midnight. Midnight till eight.
AM: And what were your digs like?
ST: Oh, we were in a hut, there was about, I don’t’ know, about ten of us I think in this hut, yeah.
AM: All girls.
ST: We had our own bed space and our little cabinet, you know. Yeah.
AM: And what about eating. Where did you eat? Did you eat with the men or were you kept separate?
ST: We were quite good, we were separate, you know when all the ground crew went in, we went separate and we seemed to get nicer meals [laughs].
AM: How many of you would there be in comparison to the men? Ish.
ST: Gosh, well, up in the air traffic control there were just two of us and about six men.
AM: Right.
ST: And I never met anybody else after that, you know, we just, unless you went to the dance at night, when I was on the right shift, we would go to the dance.
AM: Right. Where was the dance?
ST: In the
AM: On the base.
ST: On the base. Yes.
AM: On the base. So, I imagine there were a lot more men than women at the dance.
ST: Oh, hundreds more, yeah.
AM: What was that like?
ST: [unclear] Four of us to the whole base sort of thing.
AM: What was that?
ST: There was the cooks [unclear] everybody.
AM: Yeah. I bet you danced off your feet, weren’t you?
ST: Well, it was lovely, yeah.
AM: It was lovely [laughs].
ST: I had never been to a dancing. [laughs]
AM: And you mentioned to me that you’d actually been in an aircraft, what
ST: We used to climb in to see if, when they came back, if we had to go and check the radio, see that it was [unclear]
AM: When you say we, you girls from the control tower.
ST: Yes. We went, yeah.
AM: So, what was that like then, climbing into a plane [unclear]?
ST: There were no steps, you know, we had, I don’t how I got in, I used to hang onto things that somebody had thrown in [laughs]. I was only about seven stone seven when, you know, I was only little and I could never manage up there. Anyway it was fun and we had fun.
AM: You had fun. So tell me about this Scottish person then.
ST: Oh well, yeah.
AM: From the beginning.
ST: Oh well, we were, oh I told you, we watched this thing work and take pictures
AM: Ok, the bird’s-eye view of the map
ST: And then we were dismissed and we went to the naffy and the sergeant went into the naffy and then this nice young airman came in and said, come and sit with me, would you like a coffee? And I said yes please and he says, come and sit over here with me and that was the beginning of romance [laughs], yeah. We went on the bus into Lincoln and he proposed to me and I bought a ring there and everything. We went to the jewellers and there were no rings there for me, only about three earrings in the whole shop [laughs] but there were a lot
AM: How long did this romance last before you were married? Because he would be going on operations all this time.
ST: Oh yeah.
US: What was his name, Sylvia?
ST: I only knew him six months before
AM: What was his name?
ST: But we were married [unclear] for our fiftieth wedding anniversary. We went to New Zealand and
AM: What was his name?
ST: Harold
AM: Harold
ST: Harold James Trapp. Yeah.
AM: So what was it like then, when you first met him and he got you a coffee and then you went straight to the jewellers, but it must have been a bit in between when you went to dances and stuff like that? What was it like when he was going off on operations?
ST: Ah, not very good.
AM: No?
ST: You used to pray that they came back.
US: Can you remember what squadron he flew with?
ST: [unclear]
US: What did he do on the plane? Was he?
ST: He was a bomb aimer.
US: Bomb aimer.
AM: Was the bomb aimer. But he obviously came through it. If you were married for fifty years.
ST: Yeah. Thank goodness, yeah.
AM: Watched him go out and watched him come back.
ST: Yeah. We used to wait, [unclear] we used to wait for him coming back, yeah [unclear]
AM: So, when did you get married? Did you get married during the war or?
ST: December the 4th 1945.
AM: Alright, so just after the end.
ST: Yeah. 1945, yeah.
AM: How long did you stay in the WAAFs for?
ST: Well, the year after we got married I was expecting [laughs] so I came home. Our daughter was born.
AM: You must have lots of other stories, things that have happened. Come on, let’s hear some of them.
ST: [laughs] well, another thing. They used to, there was a firm from Mansfield that repaired the runways, kept the runways in track. Well, Mansfield was my hometown, so, I got talking to and, I can’t remember, it must be when they went at four o’clock at night, when I was eight till four and I used to get a lift home and then come back with him next morning and [laughs]
AM: Were you allowed to do that or was that a secret?
ST: I don’t think so, no, they didn’t know [laughs]. No, they didn’t know. But it was handy, you know, it was quite handy, I knew they [unclear] went straight to Mansfield, came back the next day and my friend, oh, I had a friend in the hut named Pearl and she used to look after my, you know, if come round
AM: She just [unclear]
ST: She was just standing in for me [laughs]
AM: [laughs] Did you do, another WAAF I talked to, Bassie, she talked to me about everybody about the WAAFs doing each other’s hair and makeup and stuff. Did you do that or were you not into?
ST: I didn’t do it, I didn’t use, you know, we just rolled our hair up and we had to roll it up
AM: Yeah, and [unclear]
ST: Grips [unclear] cause [unclear] straight, you know,
AM: Roll [unclear]
ST: I think [unclear] a lot of makeup in those days. No, I wasn’t into that.
AM: No, Bassie definitely [unclear]
ST: Pearl and I, we used to, perhaps go for a walk, she came from Coalville in Leicester and we were really good friends straight away, you know, and
AM: Was she a radio operator as well?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Yeah.
ST: Yeah. But she was sent to a different place after a while, she was sent to
AM: Were you ad Waddington the whole time?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Yeah. You stayed at Waddington. So you get to know lots of the men and obviously you had [unclear] you get to know lots of the different.
ST: Yeah, yeah, but, you know.
AM: Did you go out with him and his crew?
ST: No, no.
AM: Did you not?
ST: No, I didn’t, no. Cause I say, I kept nipping home to my mum [laughs]
AM: What did your mum and dad thing about having two dancers in one?
ST: My dad died, [unclear] he died, that’s why I kept going home.
AM: Ok.
ST: She liked it when [unclear] but she used to do my washing [unclear] the next time I did [laughs]
US: What happened to your two brothers? You said you had two brothers. Did they?
ST: Oh Gosh, the oldest brother was stationed, he went to India, he went to India, but my
US: In the Royal Air Force.
ST: No, in the army.
US: He was in the army.
ST: He wasn’t fighting, he was
AM: Engineers?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Royal engineers?
ST: And then my younger brother, we never saw him for five years. He just got married because like the dough and he went into the army, he was put into the Essex regiment and he was sent abroad and we never saw him again for five years, never came home, he was in the Eight Army.
US: Right.
ST: And never saw him, he was so different when he came back. Nobody waving [unclear], when he came back he was bald and spoke a different, you know, sort of a different accent.
AM: A different accent. They both did come home, though.
ST: They came back, yeah and she had a baby while he was away. He’d never seen his dad for five years. Never didn’t even
AM: When you said he was away for five years I thought you were going to say he was a prisoner of war. But he wasn’t. He was just far away in the army.
ST: He was in the Eight Army. They just moved them place to place.
US: In the desert, probably in the western desert and then Italy and [unclear]
ST: Yeah. You see
AM: Too far to come back.
ST: Professionals you know, they wouldn’t let them come back, they kept using them until
AM: Yeah.
US: Your sister, was your sister?
ST: My sister? She went near Sheffield and she was a parachute packer [laughs], she was ok, yeah. When she got married, her husband [unclear] and he was sent to Norway fighting, they were fighting in Norway, their regiment, yeah.
AM: Crickey!
ST: So, I don’t know how my mum, I don’t know how she [unclear]
AM: [unclear] especially If your dad had died, early in the war did your dad die? Or did he die before that?
ST: ’36 he died.
AM: So before the war
ST: 1942
AM: But you said he was a miner.
ST: Kidney, kidney trouble.
AM: Yeah.
US: So it was good that your mum had you in Waddington
ST: Yeah,
US: [unclear]
ST: [unclear] that’s why I kept going home
AM: Well to [unclear] four children away,
ST: Yeah.
AM: This was unheard of before the war
ST: Yes it was and she tried to get me to stay at home, she tried to get me out of it and I wouldn’t listen to her.
AM: No.
ST: And then I tried to go with my sister and they wouldn’t let me [unclear]
AM: They wouldn’t let you do that. But all in all you sound like you enjoyed most of it.
ST: Oh, I did, I did. [unclear] different, if I hadn’t gone I was really very shy and never mixed much but that did me good going in the Air Force, it really did, yeah. And I spread my wings, you know, I’ve been everywhere now, so.
AM: Tell me a little bit about what, you met Harold and Harold was in the, a bomb aimer and obviously you got married in 1945 and then you had your [unclear] by having your daughter and what did Harold do at the end? Cause how long was it before he was demobbed?
ST: What was it, he was before he demobbed [unclear]
AM: Yeah, how long, because quite a lot of them went for another [unclear], weren’t they, before demobbing.
ST: He didn’t come out till ’47 because they were bringing VIPs back from Far East, you know. Yeah, they were bringing
AM: Where did you live then, if he was still in the RAF? While he was still there in ’46 and ’47?
ST: Where?
US: Did you go back to your mum’s or?
ST: I went to my mum’s.
AM: You went back to your mum’s.
ST: And then I went up to Scotland to live cause he worked for the electricity board and they were building a big hydroelectric scheme on Loch Lomond and so we moved round to, lived on Loch Lomond side for about three years. And then it was very lonely [unclear] so I wanted to come home to my mum so we got a transfer down to Mansfield, yeah. So
AM: Right. And then, because you were telling me you’ve lived all over the world, how did you end up?
ST: Yeah, the same crew as Harold was Joe Bradshaw, he was a flight engineer, and he was an Irishman, my husband was Scottish and they were buddies, you know, friends, and in fact he was my daughters godfather when she was born but he went back to Ireland, then he went to Canada, he emigrated to Canada and he met a lady there and got married in Canada. And then he worked for a car industry or something and he got a chance for a job down in San Diego in America so he was always saying, why don’t you come over here, this is the land of opportunity, so we did [Laughs]. We, first of all, my daughter went over for a holiday and she met a young man while she was there and she was a schoolteacher she had got [unclear] and she wrote and said, mum, I’m getting married and she came back, gave a notice and went back. So, then we went over to see her in San Diego and a younger daughter and her husband went as well so he liked it in San Diego, so he got, Joe got him a job in San Diego so they went over to San Diego, so I was living, we were living in a little [unclear] there and [unclear] my husband retired, he was sixty five and he said, we may as well go, so we packed up and went. So we were all in San Diego which is, have you ever been there?
AM: No.
ST: Paradise there. I don’t know why I left. And daughter and husband lost his job in San Diego and his mum lived in Burbank near Los Angeles so they went back and then my youngest daughter, he wasn’t getting very much money and he was offered a better job in New Jersey so they went over to New Jersey and we were left in San Diego so then we moved up further up California to Simi Valley, where that’s where my oldest daughter was, up at Simi Valley and we bought a house there and we live there and I’m twenty six years there.
AM: Wonderful. In retirement.
ST: In retirement. It was wonderful.
AM: You sound like you’ve had a lovely life.
ST: Yes, I have.
AM: You have a lovely life.
ST: And it’s while we were in San Diego that it was our fiftieth wedding anniversary and I said to my daughter, we don’t want any, we don’t want a party because all the family is in England. I said, we are going away, we are going by ourselves and we are going on a tour around New Zealand, cause we are doing bus tours, you know. So, we went and booked and we went, well, on December the fourth, that was our wedding anniversary. We got on, this coach, we were on the same bus and there were people from all over, you know, South Africa, Holland, everywhere, on this coach and we got on and everybody started singing happy anniversary to us [laughs]. So I said to the bus driver, how did you know? Cause we never said anything. And he says, a little bird told me that. So I think we went to see those hot things
AM: Springs.
ST: Yeah, hot springs and we went to see them and when we got back and went into the hotel and dinner, dinner was late that night he said, so went down for dinner. When we got into the dining room, it was decorated [unclear] happy anniversary.
AM: Wonderful.
ST: My daughter, my oldest daughter had sent a fax over, cause there were faxes then
AM: Yeah. The emails now, but faxes then.
ST: Sent a fax to the hotel. I don’t know if she sent money but there was the biggest wedding cake, three tier wedding cake and you just couldn’t believe it, [unclear] I just wanted a quiet
AM: A quite wedding
ST: We didn’t want to, no. [file missing] And I hadn’t asked for leave and I got two weeks at the same time and married December the fourth and we travelled, my mum and my sister and me, we travelled up to Glasgow by train which was full of troops, all, you know. It took as about eleven hours to get to Glasgow but when we got to Glasgow we’ve got to get to Gourock to get the ferry over, so we got to Gourock, it was dark, pitch black, not a thing and ferries had stopped running because it was gale, the gale blowing and I thought, what do we do now? So we stood there in the dark and I just didn’t know what to do and this American came over and he said, where are you heading for? I said, Dunoon. He says, I’ll take you. And there was in the Clyde of Dunoon there was a big submarine base, you know, American submarines and some of the crews had gone into Glasgow for a night out and he was, got the liberty boat waiting to take him home [laughs]. He says, I’ll take you across, well, there’s my mum, me and my sister and the gale blowing and we are going up and down, my mother was ever so sick, she says, I’ll never come here again, never again, she said. Anyway, got to Dunoon, and he got a car, they were allowed petrol, you know, and he came and met me, I phoned him and he came and met me. And then I got into trouble for not going to look for a hotel but we couldn’t see, it was pitch black, you know and anyway. Got married on the Tuesday and on the, on the Tuesday, maybe next day, Harold had booked a sleeper down to London, cause Harold’s sister had married a sailor and was living in Portsmouth. So we got on this sleeper and we went down to London but we had two bunks, one on top and then [unclear] me, if two army officers, they come in and [laughs]
AM: So that was your honeymoon.
ST: That was my honeymoon night. I got two army officers, my husband up there and me down here. Anyway we got to his sister’s and my leave was off so I sit down, I’m not going back, I’m not going back, I said. So he says, you’ll have to go back, I said, no, I’m not, you know. Anyway, we got a phone call from his mum and then [unclear] police had gone up to Dunoon for me [laughs]. So, I thought, well, I better go back, I said, I’ll get my husband in trouble, you know, you’ll get worse trouble [unclear]
AM: You were still in at this point.
ST: So, he took me back, he took me, we went back and I thought, oh God, I’m going to go to prison or something [laughs]. Anyway, I went in and it was, commanding officer was a woman and she came round and she put an arm round my shoulder and she says, you know, my dear, I would have done exactly the same [laughs].
AM: Brilliant.
ST: So, apart from having military police after me, I really [unclear] [laughs].
AM: [laughs], so, but all the way up to Dunoon?
ST: Yeah.
AM: Which is a long way [unclear] west coast of Scotland. And all the way back to Portsmouth.
ST: Yeah.
AM: Crickey! I knew there were stories in you.
ST: [laughs] you didn’t care in those days, did you? It could have been his last leave.
AM: He’d gone through the war, yeah, and he was still flying.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Sylvia Trapp
Creator
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Annie Moody
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2016-04-05
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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ATrappSV160405
Conforms To
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Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
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00:38:17 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Description
An account of the resource
Sylvia was born in Mansfield where her father was a miner and her mother had worked at Lawns Mills. She had two brothers and a sister. Sylvia was 15 when she left school to work at the hosiery mills and recalls the German manager being deported. She joined the WAAF and completed basic training at RAF Innesworth. Away from home for the first time, she cried a lot.
She was selected for wireless training and trained at RAF Compton Bassett and Blackpool, where she used to go dancing. As a wireless operator Sylvia was posted to RAF Bottesford and then RAF Waddington, working shifts in the Air Traffic Control tower. She also had to check the aircraft radios.
Sylvia's accommodation hut had ten beds and on many evenings, she was able to get a lift home to Mansfield and back with a contractor. At RAF Waddington, she met and fell in love with Harold, a bomb aimer and says it was hard to watch him depart on operations. But he survived and they married when the war ended and they had two daughters.
In 1947 the family moved to Scotland for three years but Sylvia found it very lonely so Harold transferred to Mansfield.
Harold's flight engineer emigrated to North America after the war and was always suggesting they do the same. Sylvia's daughters both went first and then, when Harold retired, he and Sylvia went to California
Sylvia says they celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary in New Zealand and then recalls how she had spent her honeymoon on a train to Glasgow with two army men, before travelling all the way down to Portsmouth, where she became absent without leave. Worried that she might be imprisoned, she returned to RAF Waddington where her WAAF commanding officer took sympathy on her.
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
Andy Fitter
Spatial Coverage
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Great Britain
England--Gloucestershire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Yorkshire
England--Wiltshire
England--Mansfield
Scotland
Scotland--Loch Lomond
United States
California
California--San Diego
California--Simi Valley
Temporal Coverage
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1942
1945-12-04
1946
1947
Absent Without Leave
aircrew
ground personnel
love and romance
military living conditions
military service conditions
RAF Bottesford
RAF Compton Bassett
RAF Innesworth
RAF Waddington
training
wireless operator
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1038/11410/PMorrisPG1701.1.jpg
dbe8fd14d0cec7f62ab5484ff8161149
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1038/11410/AMorrisPG171010.2.mp3
2abe2291828666848d77cd6c852668b9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Morris, Peter
P G Morris
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Peter Morris (b.1925, 1813258 Royal Air Force). He flew operations with 90, 42 and 120 Squadrons.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-10-10
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Morris, PG
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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RP: This interview is being conducted on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Rod Pickles. The interviewee is Peter Morris. The interview is taking place at Mr Morris’ home in Collompton, Devon on the 10th of October 2017. Francis Platt is also present. Good morning, Peter. Could you start by telling us when and where you were born and what led you to joining the RAF, please?
PM: Well, I was born in East Ham in East London in the June of 1925. I lived in London throughout the Blitz and I suppose was full of bravado when the ATC started in 1941. I joined. And I decided to train as air crew. And after a couple of years in the Air Training Corps at seventeen I joined the Royal Air Force and I was accepted to train as either a pilot bomb aimer or navigator. I was called up just two weeks before my eighteenth birthday and I went initially on an education course because I left school at fourteen and I was keen to get my education better. And after that I went through the normal basic training for the RAF which was just the normal square bashing and so on. And I spent twelve hours flying on Tiger Moths to see whether I’d got the application to be a pilot. But I wasn’t too keen. And then after a lot more [pause] I then did more aptitude tests in London and it was decided that I should train as a navigator. And then I was sent to Heaton Park in Manchester which was a holding unit for air crew and I was there for nearly six months waiting for a navigation course. At the time they told us that the losses in Bomber Command were less than they were expecting. Well, as one in two got killed I wondered just how many they were expecting.
RP: Well, yes.
PM: And whilst I was there they called for volunteers to go to Hornchurch, just outside London to help repair houses damaged by the V-1 Doodlebugs and I went down there. Spent about a month repairing houses just killing time. And then we were called back to Heaton Park and then they decided they would send us, a group of us went to RAF Waterbeach to work on the bomb dump. The armourers just couldn’t cope at the time as there were twenty aircraft on the station and there were some that were doing two raids a day. And when you had to prepare all the bombs for it. So, we arrived at Waterbeach and the next day we were sent to the bomb dump and there we were shown the bombs that we had to prepare. There were four thousand pound bombs which needed a nose ring fitted because they had pressure fuses in them to help build the pressure up in the noses and the tail fin had to be fitted. And also the lugs which held the bomb on to the aircraft had to be screwed on. Then we had the thousand pounders and there you had to fit the tail units and also you had to fit, fit the fuses in the nose. The only thing we weren’t allowed to do, we weren’t allowed to put the detonators in because the detonators were very very touchy and they could go off with the warmth of your hand and so the armourers would fit the detonators. They would screw in the pistols so that was all ready. Another job we weren’t allowed to do were the long delay fuses because they had, not like the Germans, apparently they had a clockwork system. Our long defused, long delay fuses had acid and various forms of plastic rings and as the acid burned through the rings and then it let the firing pin go forward and set the bomb off. But they had an anti-handling device. You only had to turn it half a turn and it would release the trigger and the bomb went off. So we weren’t allowed to do that. The armourers had to do that. And of course the armourers put them on the aircraft. It was quite a job to think that everyone had to be hand winched up in to the aircraft. And we were there for about a month. The first day I was there we got there about 9 o’clock in the morning and I, still there 9 o’clock the following morning. We had spent all night. They brought food out to us at the bomb dump and we were just getting these bombs ready for them to get on the aircraft. And I remember sitting on a thousand pounder and I fell asleep sitting on it until someone woke me up. And then another job we had doing were packing incendiary bombs. As incendiary bombs they came originally a hundred and fifty in a canister and then they extended the canister so they could get another fifty in each side. So there were three sets of bombs in them and we had to fit another hundred and fifty incendiary bombs in these canisters. And these were small bombs. They were hexagonal shape and there was a small fire, a small pin which you had to fit so that it was kept shut by the can, by the hexagonal shape. And I remember one of the chaps, he happened to accidentally drop one and it went off. We were doing this in a hangar and he had the presence of mind to throw it out the door of the hangar. And the next thing we knew the fire brigade had arrived. They’d seen all the smoke going up —
RP: Yeah.
PM: From this incendiary bomb. But they were very touchy. We were, as I say we were there for about a month doing this and then they, we were called back to Heaton Park because they said that I’d got a navigation course and I was fortunate in many ways because the course was on the Isle of Man. At Jurby. And so I went across to the Isle of Man and qualified as a navigator there and finally qualified in May 1945 just as the VE Day had been declared. And then I went on to train on Wellingtons in preparation to go out to the Far East. And again they dropped the bomb and that stopped that. And from the Wellingtons we went on to Lancasters and I finally went, finished up on a squadron in Bomber Command. Number 90 Squadron at RAF Tuddenham in February 1946.
RP: So most of your war then was dealing with waiting for a course and then —
PM: Yes. Yes. I was, I was a good six months waiting for a navigation course.
RP: And then its VE Day and you don’t see any action.
PM: VE day. They didn’t know what to do with us when we finally qualified and we were sent home on indefinite leave and I had about six weeks at home. And then I got a telegram telling me to report to Number 26 Operational Training Unit at RAF Wing near Leighton Buzzard. And then that was on Wellingtons. And from there, as I say, through to Lancasters.
RP: So when, when you sort of realised that, you know, after the VJ day.
PM: Yeah.
RP: Were you, were you feeling relieved or disappointed? Can you remember?
PM: A bit of both. You obviously at that time you didn’t really know what it was like to go on ops and you always thought that’s what you joined for but at the same time you were relieved that you hadn’t have to go.
RP: Yeah. But did you, when you were at Waterbeach did you meet any of the air crew? Did you get to know any?
PM: No.
RP: You weren’t —
PM: No.
RP: In touch with any of them.
PM: No. No. I think they deliberately kept us out of the way of air crew because they knew what was happening and we didn’t.
RP: So, so only a month. You didn’t feel inclined to become an armourer then.
PM: Oh, no. No.
RP: Seen what they were doing.
PM: No. I wanted to be a navigator.
RP: So you qualified as a navigator. It’s now 1946.
PM: Yeah.
RP: So what happens then?
PM: Then in 1946 they brought out a scheme where you could sign on for three years in the RAF and four years Reserve and they’d give you a hundred pounds for doing it which was a lot of money in those days. And I decided I would sign on and so I signed on for the three years and four Reserve and I remained on the squadron. And then there was trouble out in Yugoslavia and we were sent as an advance party out to Malta to be prepared for going bombing Yugoslavia as they’d attacked one of our ships and also attacked an aircraft I believe. And we spent ten days there and then the whole thing fizzled out and we flew back home again. Then the squadron moved to RAF Wyton which was a permanent station whereas Tuddenham was a wartime base and we re-equipped with Lincoln aircraft. And whilst on Lincolns we had the job of testing the new auto pilot. And one of the jobs that we had was to test it to see how it went and operated under bumpy conditions and low level. At that time everybody’s gradually getting demobbed and there were only two navigators on the squadron at one time, myself and the nav leader. And so anything that happened one of us had to go along. And the navi didn’t want to go on this particular trip so I went along and they said, well we went to the Met Office and, ‘Where can we find bumpy conditions at low level?’ They said, ’How about the Nile Valley?’ And sort of tongue in cheek we said, ‘Great. We’ll apply for it,’ and they accepted. And so we then, we flew out to the Canal Zone in the Middle East and to start with we used the autopilot as the bomb aimer had a control in the bomb aimer’s position for doing bombing runs. We did some bombing runs in the desert there. And then we flew low level along the Nile up to Khartoum. So around about fifty to a hundred feet mostly, up along the Nile with the autopilot in all the way. And then from Khartoum we flew to Nairobi and again at low level. Not quite so low because it was mainly jungle we were flying over. Whilst at Nairobi it was Battle of Britain Day and they asked us if we would do an air display for them which we were quite happy to do. We did that and then again flew back the way we came out and back to RAF Wyton. I remained on the squadron then until, it must have been about the end of 1948. ’47. And one of the other navigators on the squadron had been posted to RAF Coningsby as an instructor on Mosquitoes. And they wanted another instructor there because I had done an instructor’s course when I signed on. They wanted people to be instructors and he volunteered me against my will to go on to Coningsby to fly on Mosquitoes. And I turned up at Coningsby and our job there was to train the navigators in using GH which was a blind bombing radar device. Of course, we couldn’t show them in the aircraft because it only, only held two people. So we had an Anson Mark 19 fitted out with all the gear on it and we trained them on that. But I wasn’t too happy flying in Mosquitoes. You didn’t have a navigation table. You had a piece of board on your knees. Your chart was pinned on it with drawing pins and all your instruments were on pieces of string all around because if you dropped it you’d never find it again. I preferred the heavies. And the nav leader there said, ‘Well, you’re not happy on these are you?’ I said, ‘No. I’d rather go back to heavies.’ They then posted me to RAF Lindholme to do a course to go back on to them again. And when they found out I was a qualified instructor they were one short and they said, ‘Will you remain as an instructor on navigation?’ Which I was quite happy to do. And so there I was training people to use H2S which was a radar which showed a picture of the ground underneath you. It was very primitive compared with what there is now but we were doing that. And [pause] and I remained there until nearly 1950. And towards the end of that time the wing commander flying called me in and said was I interested in taking a commission? And I said, well yes I was. I’d got nothing to lost. And I filled all my papers in and waited and waited. Nothing happened. The wing commander called me into his office. He said, ‘Very sorry. Your application’s been lost.’
RP: Dear me.
PM: ‘Will you fill them in again?’ Which I did. I filled them in and waited, and waited and waited. Nothing happened. And again he said, ‘We’re awfully sorry,’ he said, ‘But they’ve been lost again.’ So I filled in a third lot and again I waited and waited. I was getting a bit upset now because to start with I had now finished my three years and I was on no contract whatsoever with the Air Force to remain in.
RP: And what rank were you at this time?
PM: At that time we were, our ranks had changed. We had air crew ranks.
RP: Yeah.
PM: And we were called navigator 2 which was the equivalent of a sergeant.
RP: Oh right. So here you are. It’s your third application. Does it go through?
PM: It was the third application. And at the same time I’d applied to sign on to do twenty two years in the RAF.
RP: Right.
PM: And again, I went and he said, ‘It’s been lost again.’ Well, I was getting a bit cross now and I said, ‘Sir, you can stick your commission. I will sign on ‘til I, to do twenty two.’ And he more or less agreed with it. We left it at that. And I then applied to do an advanced navigation course and I was accepted. And I went to RAF Shawbury and did the advanced navigation course. It was the most concentrated course I’ve ever done in my life, I think. In six weeks we went from basic algebra to spherical trigonometry and your head was absolutely buzzing. You had to learn about every piece of equipment you had in the aircraft. Not how to use it but how it was made and how it operated. And that took us about three months and then I was posted to RAF Swinderby as an instructor at an Advanced Flying Unit and then back on to Wellingtons again. And while I was in Lincoln I met my old nav leader who was at Scampton and he said, ‘They found your applications. They were all in the station commander’s office when it was the station commander’s home amongst newspapers when he was posted. And they found they were all there.’ Which made me a bit upset.
RP: Yeah. So they couldn’t, couldn’t initiate it from there then?
PM: No. No. So, I remained at Swinderby for, was it two, two years because that was the average time you stayed at any unit. And from there I was posted on to a ground course. Ground crew out in Germany to be at a fighter plotting unit. And when I got there the first thing they said to me, you know, ‘Well, have you trained on this?’ I said, ‘I haven’t.’ They said, ‘Well, you’re no good to us.’ So they sent me to RAF Oldenburg where they had a small mobile radar unit with a mobile plotting table and quite honestly it was a doddle because as a navigator you knew all the maps and so on. It was just a case of sitting at a table watching airmen pushing little arrows around. Much as you see on the Battle of Britain things. And I did that for two and a half years. And at the end of that I was posted back to England and I had to go to Air Ministry for them to decide where I wanted to go from there. By now I’d gone up a rank. I was now a flight sergeant as they’d brought back the old ranks again. And initially I said, ‘Well, can I go on helicopters?’ as my friend had gone on helicopters. They said, ‘Oh no. Not with your experience. How about Coastal Command?’ So, that will do me. And so I was posted then to RAF St Mawgan to train in Coastal Command and I did my basic training there and then was posted to Kinloss up in Scotland to train on the Shackleton Mark 1. And from there I was, when I finished the course I was posted to RAF St Eval where we had Shackleton Mark 2s. So I arrived on 42 Squadron in September of 1946. I went in to the orderly room to book in and the first thing they said to me, ‘Can you go overseas at a moment’s notice? Otherwise,’ he said, ‘We’ll send you to another squadron.’
RP: You said 46.
PM: Fifty.
RP: ’56. Yeah.
PM: ’56.
RP: I think Shackletons weren’t around then.
PM: No. They Weren’t. No. 1956.
RP: ‘56 yeah.
PM: And so, apparently the squadron had just been made the colonial policing squadron and this involved us going out to Aden for short terms. Well, my wife was heavily pregnant at the time but I didn’t tell them and I said, ‘No, it’s alright. I can go.’ And we then had to train from using the low level bombsight which the Shackleton was fitted with to using a high level bombsight which was the Bomber Command bombsight. And we spent several months dropping bombs on a practice range. And then the squadron was moving out there at four aircraft at a time. Four would go out to Aden and then as they were relieved by the other four that were back in St Eval. And it was in July of 1956, ’57 now that our crew was posted, was sent out to Aden. And we were not allowed to fly across the Arab countries because they refused us permission because they said we were going on a warlike mission against other Arab nations. And so we had to stow the guns inside the aircraft because we had two cannon in the nose of the Shackleton and we flew out first to Cyprus. From Cyprus we flew along the borders between Turkey and Syria, down through Iraq, down to Bahrain and from Bahrain we flew down across the desert over Muscat Omans area. Right down until we reached Aden. And [pause] and when we arrived in Aden the temperature was terribly hot. Forty degree plus. At times it was fifty degrees there. First several flights that we did were getting used to the area. We flew with one of the crews from one of the other aircraft because the maps were so poor there. There wasn’t any satellite navigation then and so you more or less had to make the maps up as you flew. And so we got to know the area we flew over. It was mainly along the Yemen border with Aden. And the idea was to, to look out for people that were coming across the borders and causing trouble. This was a sort of a pastime for them. They would come across the border, fire a few rounds off and go back home again. And we did this. I suppose [pause] living up in that area was an RAF intelligence officer. In fact, he lived just like an Arab. Dressed like an Arab. He even looked like an Arab. And he would, we would contact him and he would give us directions to fly to check on at certain areas. A couple of times we had to do some bombing runs. We had fourteen one thousand pound bombs and we had to drop these in areas where the RAF Venoms, they couldn’t reach because they would normally go with rockets. But the mountain, it was so mountainous there because most of it was six thousand feet. And down in the valleys the Venoms couldn’t get in so we would go and drop bombs where these intruders had gone in. A couple of occasions where they’d misbehaved they would go and warn them and drop leaflets and say at such and such a day at such and such a time we’re going to come and bomb your fields. And so they kept clear and then we’d go and we’d drop a stick of bombs across their fields to make them, to bring them back into line again. Then one Saturday morning we were called in and they said, ‘Right. You’ve got to go Bahrain immediately. Don’t know what for but get your kit and off you go.’ And so we got our kit and we flew up to Bahrain. Sunday morning they said, ‘Right, you’re going to fly over Muscat Oman. And you’re to go with a Pembroke pilot from here that will show you around the area.’ So we took off and we flew over to, near a place called Nizwa which was a large sort of town almost and in the centre of it was a very large circular fort. And there’d been an uprising. The Sultan’s brother had rebelled against him and we had an agreement with the Sultan that if he was in danger then the RAF or the British forces would go and, go and help him. So that’s what we were there for. The pilot of the Pembroke was showing us around and he took us up one valley. He said, ‘Well, you can turn around when you get to end and come back again.’ Well, you could in a Pembroke. But in a Shackleton no way. And when we got to the end there was this great cliff in front of us and with full power on we just managed to scrape over the top of it. So we decided we wouldn’t go up that valley again. And then our role then was to fly out every day and we were given certain villages to fly over. Some were friendly. Some weren’t. And we had to observe what they were doing. And this went on for about seven or eight days and in that time nothing seemed to be happening very much but we’d been building up. The army had flown in. The paratroopers had arrived at Bahrain and they were going to be flown out to an airfield which was on an oil well out in Muscat and they would march across the desert to attack from that side. And we were dropping leaflets all the time. We had different colour leaflets. I think it was white ones to drop to friendly areas and pink ones to drop to enemy areas. More or less telling them you know one was saying the Sultan was a good man. The other one was saying you’ve got to stop what you’re doing and come and join the Sultan. All that sort of thing. Anyway, on one of the trips we carried a group captain who was the senior air staff officer for Middle East Command. He wanted to see what was going on and again we had the leaflets to drop. And on one particular village, a place called Firq, which was just south of Nizwa it was a very small fort there and they said, ‘Right, you’ve got to drop these leaflets. They’ve got to go in the fort but they mustn’t go outside it.’ Well it’s not very easy when you’re dropping leaflets like that and so we decided we’d go in at about five hundred feet and drop these leaflets. And we were in the middle of dropping them and we felt like a ripple go through the aircraft. We realised we’d been hit by small arms fire. We were very lucky really because in the nose of the aircraft there were three of us. There was the bomb aimer, that was the other navigator in the nose, there was one of the sergeant signallers who was putting the leaflets down the flare chute and the group captain and a bullet came up. It hit the switch right underneath them, split it in half. Missed them all. One half went in and hit the co-pilot’s intercom box so it knocked it out completely. He didn’t know what was going on. And the other half later we dug out of a tin of sweets in the emergency rations. In the tail there was a tail lookout and the chap laid in the tail look out had a bullet go in by his shoulder and go out above his head. And we decided it was time to clear the area. And I remember our captain, he called up the two Venoms that were attacking another village up the road and said, ‘Watch this place. They’re sharpshooters.’ And one of them said, ‘Oh, I’ll save a rocket for them on the way back.’ And this group captain was on immediately, ‘No. No. No. No. They’ve got to be told first.’ As we were dropping leaflets telling them that they would be attacked the following day. And when we landed back at Bahrain we found there were other holes in the wings where again we were so lucky. Your wings are full of petrol and full of wires and it missed everything. Gone right through the wings in out through the top and nothing was damaged at all. And I remember they, they repaired the holes. They hadn’t have anything to repair them with so they used aluminium beer cans and riveted them over the holes. They were, the following day we took off again and we were told there we’d got to be there before eight in the morning and again go in low level, dropping leaflets telling them they would be attacked within half an hour. They weren’t too pleased about that. Anyway, we got there and we thought that we’d wake them up so we flew across firing our twenty mil cannon to make them keep their heads down. Then came back, dropped our leaflets and came home. We had to allow for the loss of ammunition and so we said we’d done some air sea firing on the way home to account for the ammunition and got admonished for wasting ammunition in that way. Anyway, the, the army did attack that day and the Venoms went in first with the rockets and attacked the fort and then the paratroopers moved in and they gradually drove them up. At Nizwa they’d got a tanker, a lorry which was the, been going from one of the oil wells. They had captured the crew of the tanker and had got them in this large fort and they had said if we attacked the fort they would hang them over the balconies. And we could actually see them there over because it was a big circular fort and we could see the chaps there so obviously we didn’t attack it. Eventually they did get in and they drove the rebels up in to Jabal Akhdar which was an eight thousand foot high mountain nearby and it finished up with the SAS going up the mountain and sorting them out. And that was the end of the sorties there. Before it actually finished the CinC Bomber Comm, the CinC Middle East Command ordered that we be sent back to Bahrain. He said, ‘Go back there and cool off.’ But if you can imagine cooling off in Bahrain. Anyway, we decided, well we didn’t decide we were sent back to Bahrain to have a so-called rest. And the next day we were told we’d got to go on a bombing raid and two aircraft were involved. One of the flight commander’s and our aircraft. And we loaded up with fourteen one thousand pound bombs and as the flight commander was taking off white smoke started pouring out of all four engines and he just managed to pull it to a halt at the end of the runway, and they cancelled the bombing raid. And they found that in the heat in Aden we used a thing called water metholated, water meth which gave increased power to the engines and this was injected in to the engines. And in the heat it had distilled out and it just put straight water into the engines and so it didn’t do them any good. And the following day we again, having found this out they changed all the water meth and we’d loaded. Loaded up again with the bombs and took off and we did the raid up in the hills. And a couple of days later we were sent back to Bahrain to assist because now they were carrying out bombing raids using, using small anti-personnel bombs. These were nasty little things. They went off above the ground. They had got loads of sprung steel in them and you got this spring steel going around which did a lot of damage to whoever they were dropped on. We didn’t like them particularly because they had a pressure fuse in them and occasionally, there was one occasion in fact where the bombs started going off and they set the bombs going off behind them and they almost went back up to the aircraft again. So we weren’t too happy about using them. I think they’ve now been banned from use because they’re considered not the right thing to use [pause] Then the length of time of time we stayed in Bahrain or in Aden depended on the number of hours the aircraft had flown. We were supposed to be up there for three months but we’d done so much flying over Bahrain from Bahrain that we had reached our target in about six weeks. And so again we had to fly home and [pause] and two aircraft were coming back to the UK. One was a flight commander and he took off just about twenty minutes in front of us and this time we were allowed to fly over the Arab countries because we weren’t going on a warlike mission. And so we flew down the Red Sea across the border of Abyssinia and then right across the Libyan desert, the Sahara Desert to a place called Castel Benito, which was an ex-Italian airfield. It took us about twelve hours I suppose to fly across there and we landed there and there was no sign of the flight commander who had gone in front of us. And about an hour later I bumped into the navigator from that aircraft. I said, ‘What happened to you?’ Oh, the flight commander was there as well. He said, ‘How did you get here before of us?’ And jokingly I said, ‘Stayed on track all the way, sir.’ Which didn’t go down too well because his navigator apparently, just after take-off, the flight commander came back to see, look at the charts, dropped a cup of water over his chart completely soaking it. And he’d picked it up and screwed it up and throwed it away when he realised he hadn’t have another chart. There wasn’t another one for that area. So he’d had to get it out, unscrew it, stretch it out and of course now it was all out of shape and apparently they got quite lost going across the desert and they landed about an hour after us.
RP: Not the right thing to say then. Yeah. He was still speaking to you afterwards.
PM: Oh yes. He did after. He was normally quite a decent chap but he blew his top a bit. Anyway, the following day we took off and came back to UK. While we were in Aden we were being relieved by 35 Squadron which had been based in Malta and that was going to go to Aden permanently and remain there. And so that was the end of the squadron’s flying out in Aden. We then returned to our normal Coastal Command duties. One of them of course was air sea rescue and quite often we got a call out to go after, to go over the Atlantic Ocean to assist [pause] Constellation aircraft. They had a habit of losing engines coming across the Atlantic and we would fly out at a thousand feet and they would be up at twenty thousand feet and we would call them up and they would say, you know, ‘Assist us,’ and so we would turn around and fly back again, and usually they had landed at Heathrow before we got back to St Eval because they were going a lot faster than us on three engines than we were doing on four. The end of my tour there the squadron commander called me in. He said, ‘Look,’ he said, ‘I’m afraid that NCO navigators aren’t going to be employed on RAF operational squadrons anymore. So,’ he said, ‘Your time in Coastal is finished now.’ And he said, ‘What I have got here is, I’ve got a piece of paper that’s just come to me that says that they want volunteers to go and serve on Thor missiles as this is going to be the new Bomber Command. I suggest, I suggest you do that. At least you’re guaranteed a job then.’ So I thought about that. So I applied for this and I had to go to Air Ministry to be interviewed and the interviewer was a wing commander who I’d known as a flight lieutenant on 90 Squadron. So that was the end of the interview really. We just chatted and I was accepted and we then sailed across to, well we were busy. We were going to New York but we went on a Canadian Pacific ship. We went across to Montreal and our first stop was Quebec and then we sailed up the St Lawrence to Montreal. Beautiful river. Lovely day. And it was marvellous sailing along there. It’s a huge river because if you imagine there you’ve got these large ocean going liners and two of them could pass quite easily along the river. From there we got the train to New York where we were given a couple of days off and we managed to go up the Empire State Building while I was there. And then we got an aircraft to take us to Tucson in Arizona and it was a DC4. And it was supposed to land at Tucson Municipal Airport. Well. the pilot thinking as we were all RAF and we were all going to go eventually to [pause] we were going to be stationed at Davis-Monthan, which was a SAC base in Arizona. And so for some reason the pilot decided to land at Davis-Monthan. Well, SAC bases are very very security tight and an aircraft suddenly coming in which they’re not expecting they don’t go much on and they sent us over to the far side of the airfield. We were ringed with machine guns and first of all they wouldn’t let us out of the aeroplane. Well, it’s very hot in Tucson at the end of August, the beginning of September. And eventually they let us out but they surrounded us with the guards with machine guns. And eventually they sorted it out. Apparently, they’d been waiting for us at the municipal airport with a group of local dignitaries to greet us there.
RP: Right.
PM: And when they managed to sort it out it was only a case of driving through the gate because we were billeted just outside the main airfield in Davis-Monthan. We spent a month there learning about the missile. It was so new then they hadn’t actually fired one successfully. The instructor we had was on the previous course and that’s his knowledge was what he’d been told on the previous course there. But we, see we spent a month there and then we got sent on a Constellation to fly out to Los Angeles. And from there we went to [pause] from there we went to Vandenberg which was the main missile base in the States at that time and we carried on with the course there. We actually saw the missile for the first time but again they hadn’t fired one successfully. We saw various films of them taking off and then crash landing and exploding and so on but not one that actually worked. And when we’d finished the course there it was now December and they decided they would fly us back to New York and normally what happened you caught one of the Queens and they flew you, brought you back to UK. And when we got to New York it was freezing cold. When we’d left California we were in shorts. Eighty degrees. There was snow on the ground in New York and the temperature was minus goodness knows what. And it was like walking into a brick wall as you walked out of the aircraft with the change in the temperature. Anyway, they, they said, ‘Well, at the moment we can’t find any way to get you home so we’ll leave you in New York.’ We were abandoned there for ten days which was great. We were given ten dollars a day expenses to live in New York and we were billeted initially in the Governor Clinton Hotel. But they were expensive in there. They charged you four dollars a night just for the bed and then you had to pay for your breakfast and everything on top of that. And we found that the YM, you could do it for a dollar a night and so a number of us moved into the YM and stayed there. Of those who stayed at the Governor Clinton would tell us if anything had happened and they wanted us for going home. The beauty, while we were there is that we had American ID cards and so we could go into their [pause] they had a very good United Services Organisation there and you could go in there, show them your ID card and you’d get free tickets to any theatre in Broadway, any cinema in Broadway and through the day you could go on various tours. And I managed to go through the United Nations building on one tour. Another one they took us up inside the Statue of Liberty where you could climb right up to the top and the band around the Statue of Liberty’s head they are actually windows that you can look out. We were there for, as I say about ten days and then they managed to get Douglas DC6 to fly us home to the UK on Christmas Eve. And so we flew home. I managed to get a taxi home from London Airport as it was then. And so that was the end of my tour there. And from there I was posted to RAF Hemswell in Lincolnshire. That was the main base for the missiles. But there were a number of squadrons and each squadron was based at a different base. These were mainly the old wartime bases and I was sent to number 106 Squadron which was stationed at Bardney. Which again was a wartime airfield. But we still hadn’t got the missiles then. In fact, they were still building the site. The missile goes into a covered shelter and they hadn’t even got the shelters there. They were still putting in the rails for them to work on and it must have been six months or more before it was completed. And then the missiles started to arrive. They were flown over from the States in the large American aircraft. Then sent through the streets to the various sites. And when we’ve actually got them then we had to start the proper shift system because they had to be manned twenty four hours a day as the oil in the guidance system was so touchy that if the temperature changed the oil would solidify and would ruin the gyros which cost thousands of pounds to replace. And so we had to be there all the time with them. This meant manning twenty four hours a day as I say. And then we were put on a shift system where we’d do four days mornings, four days afternoons, four days nights. Four days off. This went on for ever and ever and ever. It was the most boring job in the world because you couldn’t do anything with a missile other than just watch it. Anyway, after a few months they asked me if I’d like to go to Hemswell, the main base to work in the main office there. The training office. And I said, ‘Yeah. I’m quite happy to do that,’ because it was nearer to where I was living. I was living on a caravan at the site at the time because we couldn’t get married quarters there. And so I went there and the role there was to doing, checking on the missiles because every now and again one of them would be selected and the crew would do a practice firing. This involved pumping liquid oxygen into the tank on the missile itself. It carried eighty six thousand gallons of liquid oxygen. And then it also had an eighty err seventy five gallons of fuel. And this was pumped in to a tanker because they didn’t want to get the two together to risk any chance that they might fire. The igniters were taken out so they couldn’t possibly fire. And we’d go through a practice countdown and our role was to go out and just check to see that they’d pressed the right switches and so on. This was much better. It was a more interesting job than I was doing before. Shortly after that I was promoted to master navigator which was warrant officer rank. And I did, I carried on doing that for two or three months. And then I applied to sign on ‘til I was fifty five. And again the letter that came back from Air Ministry did I want to take a commission? So I spoke to my wife and we thought about it and I said, ‘Well, what can I lose?’ I get a higher pension as a commissioned officer than I would as a warrant officer. But I get more respect as a warrant officer than I get as a commissioned. So we decided I’d try and go for the commission. And I went, I had to go to see the AOC, the air officer commanding the area to be interviewed by him. And the day before a corporal in our orderly room had gone up to see him so I said, ‘What did he ask you then?’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘He wanted to know, because we’d been to America he wanted to know the American system of parliament. Or the equivalent of our parliament. He also, apparently he’d been the air officer in Pakistan and so he asked him about Pakistan. And so he said he also wanted to know who the various Commonwealth prime ministers were. So that night I did a quick check up on all those. I went and sat down in his office and he said, ‘Oh, yes,’ he said. Tell me, what’s the system in the States for their parliament sort of system.’ And I was able to explain it to him, you know. He said, ‘What’s the set up in Pakistan now?’ I said, ‘I think there’s been a coup recently and the army had taken over.’ ‘Who’s the prime minister of Canada? Who’s the prime minster of — ’ He said, ‘You seem to be very well read.’ He said, ‘That’s ok.’ That was the end of the interview. And then I went to Jurby again on the Isle of Man for three months to train as an officer. And at the end of that I qualified as a flying officer rather than a pilot officer the way most of them did because if you were a warrant officer you went up a rank. And the beauty of it was that you had to be paid more than a warrant officer got. And a warrant officer got more than a normal flying officer got. So I was on a higher rate of pay and the commission I had was called a branch commission which was especially for NCO aircrew and it, after three years you were automatically promoted to flight lieutenant. So at the end of the course I was then posted back to Coastal Command and I went up to Kinloss and there we now had Mark 3 Shackletons. And I had to do the course again. And the thing that did annoy me was that they insisted that I did a basic navigation training course again. And so I waited at Kinloss for a while. I was attached to 120 Squadron until I’d done this navigation course. They were doing several trips there and on one of them going to Gibraltar for the weekend. I said, ‘Well, can I come along with you?’ And they said, ‘Yeah, great,’ you know,’ you can. You’re welcome.’ And I said to one of the navigators, ‘Can I have a go on the table? Give me a chance to get my hand back in.’ He said, ‘Yeah, sure.’ And when I went to go the captain of the aircraft said, ‘Definitely not.’ He said, ‘You’ve haven’t done your refresher course yet.’ He said, ‘You can’t, obviously you can’t go on.’ So I thought fair enough. I went down the back of the aircraft. Got my head down. This was a night flight out there. And after about an hour someone woke me up and they said, ‘Would you come forward?’ So I said, ‘Yeah.’ And when I got forward both the navigators were sick. Would I take over? Which pleased me no end. And we’d only now were just sort of going down the Irish Sea. And so I managed to take over and sort of, sort out where I thought we were. And then that engine packed in and so we diverted into RAF St Mawgan. And while we were on the ground there the other two other navigators recovered themselves and so they took over and they flew it down to Gibraltar so I was a passenger then there and back. But it did amuse me a little bit. And anyway, I did the navigation course at Topcliffe and then back to Kinloss. Did the basic Coastal Command course all over again and then back on to 120 Squadron and there I became, we had first and second navigators. The senior navigator was the first navigator and the junior one was second navigator. I became the second navigator on a crew. The first navigator, he had already done a tour in Gibraltar and he, we were back on, under our normal coastal work which was surveillance of, the Russian fleet was always floating around somewhere in the North Atlantic and we kept surveillance on them. Russian submarines were continually turning up close to our shores and we would do surveillance on them. And also they had fishing boats which were absolutely covered with aerials. We called them ELINTS — Electronic Intelligence vessels and we would have to go out and try and locate them and when you’ve got somewhere three or four hundred Russian fishing vessels and the Russians they used the same type of fishing vessels for everything and so they were all exactly the same. But one of them would have all these aerials on them. You would have to find that one in amongst all this lot. And once you’d located it of course then you could keep track of it and see what it was doing. Once they were located they realised they’d been caught and they would sort of clear off. On one of the occasions we used to fly out quite often to Iceland and we’d do a patrol going up to Iceland. Then from Iceland we would patrol across to Bodo in Norway and have a couple of days on the ground in Norway and then another patrol back to Kinloss again. And on this occasion we were flying up to Iceland and we came across a Russian submarine support vessel which we reported back and when we landed in Iceland there was a great fuss on there because they hadn’t, didn’t realise it was in the area. Normally the Americans had sort of passed on the information but they didn’t even know it was there and our AOC in Scotland ordered us to take off as soon as we could to relocate it. Well, the following day there was a seventy five knot gale blowing at Iceland. The station commander had closed the station. He said it wasn’t safe to take off because it wasn’t down the runway. And our AOC ordered him to open the station up, to open up the disused runway which luckily was straight into wind and we were to take off. And so we did this and we couldn’t locate the aircraft err the ship on the way back. We went back to Kinloss. The following day we had another panic on. A Russian submarine had been located in the training grounds just off Northern Ireland where the navy did all their training with us and often they would join in the exercises. Anyway, they located this submarine right in the middle of it and four of us were ordered off that night to try and locate it and try to force it out of the area. And we’d been airborne about twenty minutes and the aircraft behind us we had a call, a mayday call, he’d got an engine fire and he was returning to Kinloss and the engine, they couldn’t put the fire out and it spread along the wing and set the second engine on fire. And he was, managed to get across over Inverness and he crashed it on Culloden Moor. In fact he crashed he said by the light from the flames from the engines he could see where he was going. And all the crew luckily got out. Now, that aircraft was the one that we’d flown in on the day before. It had only done twenty minutes flying from when we took off from Iceland. If it had happened the day before we wouldn’t have had a hope in hell because of the winds blowing like that. As I say there wouldn’t have been a hope in hell of us getting back anywhere. Anyway, we, one of our aircraft did locate the submarine and it was forced to the surface and it was escorted out of the area. We then had what was considered a jolly. We were going down to South Africa, to Cape Town and we were going to join because the South Africans also had Mark 3 Shackletons and we were going to do exercises with them. The British Navy was down there with their Navy and the American Navy and the American Naval aircraft were there as well. And we flew, this time we flew down to El Adem in North Africa, in Libya. From there we flew across the desert at night to Nairobi. From Nairobi we flew down to Salisbury or Harare as it’s called now. From Harare we flew to Ysterplaat which is the airfield just outside Cape Town where we were going to be based. And we did one exercise with the Navy and then we were going to do another one that night and our CO took one look at the weather, he said, ‘No. We’re not going. It’s a waste of time because the sea state would be so great that you wouldn’t be able to do anything anyway.’ And he decided to cancel the exercise but the South Africans, with their Mark 3s they decided no. They were going to go ahead and do it. Anyway, the next morning we’d had a tremendous gale in the night. In fact, it was hurricane that had gone through and we were immediately, we were called in immediately after breakfast and were told that the aircraft that had taken off was missing. They reckoned that the winds at six odd thousand feet were a hundred and fifty knots and they hadn’t heard from take-off. Anyway, we were the first aircraft to go and we were ordered to go and fly the route that he was supposed to have taken. And we flew out over the, the sea. I was getting winds of seventy five and eighty knots as we sort of went out. The sea was absolutely mountainous. There wasn’t a hope in hell of anybody surviving if it had gone down there sand we flew out and were airborne for about thirteen hours and found absolutely nothing and so we came back. And the following day they said there was a slight chance he might have gone down in the bay outside Cape Town. And two of our, two aircraft were ordered out to go and do a close search of the bay. Whilst there in fact we noticed what we thought might be some wreckage and the thing was if you saw anything like that you’d immediately divert the nearest merchant ship to go and pick it up. And we came across a large Japanese bulk carrier and we did the normal fly across the bows and put the engines up and down to attract his attention. He didn’t take the blindest bit of notice so we came back again and we fired green verey cartridges across the bow. No notice. We came back again with red cartridges this time. Took no notice whatsoever so it obviously wasn’t, I suppose there probably wasn’t anybody on the bridge. And when we landed back apparently he had been called in to Cape Town and they were heavily fined for not following the rules of the sea. Anyway, our CO as we were more conversant with air sea rescue we were given the sort of the control of what was going on and he got the tapes from the tower and listened to them and very very faint, “Mayday. Mayday,” shortly after take-off and they decided they would use a helicopter and go and look in the mountains just off Cape Town. And as they flew over the mountain they could see, they found the aircraft at the bottom of one of the valleys upside down. And the sonar buoys that we carried were bright dayglo orange and it was upside down. The bomb doors had burst open and so they could see these sonar buoys there so they knew immediately what it was. And of course all the crew had been killed. And they must have got into huge turbulence and it flipped the aircraft upside down and that was the end of that. Anyway, the South Africans decided to call the exercise off. And so we stayed there for a little bit longer. They managed to fly us down to Durban for the weekend. We went down there on one of the South African Dakotas. And then we flew home again.
RP: So what year was that?
PM: That was in 1963. Then we went back to our normal sort of surveillance work we were doing and I applied to do the weapons instructor’s course that was actually at Kinloss. And before I could go on that they sent me to RAF Uxbridge which is the RAF School of Education to do an instructor’s course. And I went there and I managed to qualify with an A2 instructor’s category and I went back to Kinloss, did the course as a weapons instructor and back on the squadron where I was made squadron weapons officer. I was then promoted flight lieutenant. And I then got a message through saying I was going to be posted to Malta. Shortly after that I got another message saying I was going to the Maritime Operational Training Unit as a weapon’s instructor. Apparently they had, when I completed the course they had called for me to join them. And so I went to the weapons course at St Mawgan, St Eval, no. Sorry, at Kinloss. And whilst on, on the Operational Training Unit they decided to move the two squadrons that were at St Mawgan up to Kinloss and the Training Unit down to St Mawgan. And so the whole lot had to be moved down to St Mawgan. And before we moved I was called in, they said, ‘Well, would you take over as chief weapons instructor when we move to St Mawgan?’ So I said, ‘Yeah, I don’t mind.’ So I took over and I went down to St Mawgan and we had to set the whole thing up again. All the training classrooms and so on. And I remained there until 1967 when I was posted to Singapore. Now, my wife said she didn’t want to go to Singapore because we’d recently bought a bungalow, the children were both settled in school for the first time because they’d been moved from school to school. So she decided she would remain at home and I didn’t fancy spending two and a half years on my own in Singapore. So they had a scheme whereby if you volunteered to go do, on an unaccompanied tour anywhere in the world it lasted for a year. So I volunteered for that. And they said right, they’d got a post at as ops officer in Labuan in Borneo. So I said that would do fine. And I got all my kit together and just about to go and the signal came through Labuan closed six months ago. And they didn’t know about it apparently. And so they stopped that one. So they said, ‘Well, how about Bahrain?’ So I said, ‘Yes. That would do me.’ Go to Bahrain. And that time they brought out a redundancy scheme for the Air Force had got what they thought were too many older officers. They wanted to get rid of them to make room for the younger ones coming up and so they brought this scheme in which really it was too good to turn down. I think I was, I was given a five thousand pound to leave plus full pension. So I decided I’ll leave. So I volunteered to go out on that and was accepted to leave and I spent another six months or so floating around at St Mawgan doing all sorts of odd jobs. One of them while I was there we wanted, they wanted an aircraft to go out to locate Sir Francis Chichester on his return from his round the world sailing. Because then there was no sat navs and so they had no contact with him. They knew roughly where he was. An aircraft from 42 Squadron was there and an aircraft from the MOTU. We took off to search for him and we were fortunate that we found him and we were able to direct the other aircraft to us because we had reporters on board and the reporters were not allowed to take any photographs until both aircraft were there so neither got the advantage over the other. But it gave me the advantage. I was able to take some photographs before they got the chance for them to do it. Anyway, as we say we located him but he was most upset at being located. Normally, you know, if you found people they would give you a wave when you flew past. But he just didn’t stand up. He didn’t wave. We dropped a message to him in a container welcoming him back and thanking, you know and saying what a good job he’d done. He watched it go past his boat. He didn’t even bother to pick it up. So I think he was most upset. He wanted to sneak in I think without having being seen. And so that was the end of that one and I think one of the last flights I did was on the Torrey Canyon. We were checking the oil that was coming out of that when it crashed at just off the Scilly Isles. And I didn’t know what to do when I came out of the Air Force. I did a computer course at Camborne in Cornwall and it was to train to programme computers but then I realised that there were only two computers in the whole of Cornwall at that time. One, the one we were using was at County Hall and the other was at John Keay House in the China clay industry. So the chances of getting a job there were nil and I didn’t want to leave Cornwall. Cornwall. And so one of the other chaps who was leaving with me, he said he’d applied to train as a teacher at St Luke’s in Exeter. He said, ‘Why don’t you come and, you know try that?’ So, I said, ‘Well, I left school at fourteen. They won’t want to know me there.’ Anyway, he said, ‘Well try it.’ And I went and the principal there was an ex-wing commander navigator.
RP: So you were made. So, I think we finished your RAF career so we might need to bring it to an end there. But did you, just to round it off did you finish your sort of working career as a teacher then?
PM: As a —?
RP: As a teacher.
PM: Yes.
RP: You stayed then.
PM: Well, I’m saying I taught for ten years.
RP: Yeah.
PM: And then I decided I’d had enough again at fifty five they said you could retire. So I took early retirement from that.
RP: Very nice.
PM: And bought a small holding.
RP: Well, that’s, I mean that’s a fascinating, a fascinating career and I say thank you very much for that. I’m just amazed they were still training you as VE day approached but I suppose you were lucky in a way that you didn’t have to go on ops and you could —
PM: No
RP: You looked forward to a full career in the RAF.
PM: Yeah. It was, because you don’t know how you would react to going on ops. The chap that you should have interviewed, that is a chap called Ted Frost. A friend of mine. He did fifty seven ops. DFC. And I said to him, ‘Have they been in touch with you?’ ‘No he said. They haven’t asked me about it.
RP: Oh, well I’ll take the details if you like.
PM: So I can give you Ted’s telephone number.
RP: Absolutely. No. That’s the sort of people I, I would just like to, we’ll just finish this and I’ll say thank you very much, Peter. It’s been fascinating.
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Interview with Peter Morris
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Rod Pickles
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-10-10
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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AMorrisPG171010, PMorrisPG1701
Conforms To
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Pending review
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01:07:03 audio recording
Language
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eng
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Coastal Command
Description
An account of the resource
Peter Morris lived through the East End blitz. He joined the ATC as soon as it was established and applied to join the RAF as aircrew. He was accepted for training as a navigator. While waiting for a course he was part of a group that was sent to repair bomb damage from the V-1 attacks and was then sent to support the armourers at RAF Waterbeach by working on the bomb dump. Peter finished his training just as VE day was celebrated and then was sent to prepare for the Far East just before VJ Day. Peter became an instructor and was also posted on to Coastal Command where he took part in air sea rescue operations.
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Spatial Coverage
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Bahrain
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
United States
California
California--Vandenberg Air Force Base
Temporal Coverage
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1945
1946
106 Squadron
120 Squadron
42 Squadron
90 Squadron
air sea rescue
aircrew
bombing
bombing up
ground personnel
incendiary device
Lancaster
Lincoln
navigator
RAF Heaton Park
RAF Kinloss
RAF St Eval
RAF St Mawgan
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Wyton
Shackleton
Tiger force
training
V-1
V-weapon
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/273/3425/AHibbardL170221.2.mp3
5a07a7983c3d49d0d418cc7bdd29ff0d
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/273/3425/PHibbardL1704.2.pdf
999ca0d570c954b7f1a0b64c75a9a3ac
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Hibbard, Lindsay
Lindsay Hibbard
L Hibbard
Description
An account of the resource
Two items. An oral history interview with Lindsay Hibbard DFC (434253 Royal Australian Air Force), and a photograph. He flew 32 operations as a wireless operator with 57 Squadron.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Lindsay Hibbard and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-02-21
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Hibbard, L
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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JM: This interview is being conducted for the International Bomber Command Centre, the interviewer is Jean MacCartney and the interviewee is Lindsay Hibbard. The interview is taking place at Mr. Hibbard’s home in Banora Point, New South Wales, on the 21st February, 2017. Now then Lindsay, I believe you were born in Murbah, I was going to say Murbah ‘cos I happen to know that that’s the normal contraction but for everyone else, we better say Murwillumbah in 1924.
LH: Yes.
JM: So did that mean that you, your family was in Murwillumbah or, and they were staying there or –
LH: Yes, they were at that stage, they moved to Brisbane in 1927.
JM: Right.
LH: Yes, just for education, to be educated.
JM: Yep. And er, so 1927, so you had your first three years in Murwillumbah and then, and then Brisbane. What part of Brisbane were you in?
LH: Cooparoo.
JM: Cooparoo right. I’m not overly familiar with some of the suburbs of Brisbane, that one’s not ringing a bell. Which was that north, south, east?
LH: Oh it was towards the south, yeah.
JM: Towards the south, right.
LH: Near the Logan motorway.
JM: Oh, okay, right, right.
LH: Which wasn’t a motorway then.
JM: No, no, no, no, no, that’s right, yes, but I’ve, I’ve, I’ve driven up there and seen the turn off for the Logan motorway so that makes sense, yep, okay. So, from 1927 er, so that’s –
LH: 1939, we came back in 1939.
JM: Oh okay, to back to –
LH: To Tumbulgum.
JM: To?
LH: To the farm at Tumbulgum.
JM: Oh Tumbulgum, oh okay, so you had a farm there?
LH: My dad had a farm there from nineteen hundred and two.
JM: Right.
LH: He came up from Macklay in nineteen hundred and two.
JM: Mm mm.
LH: To the farm at Tumbulgum.
JM: Yep right, and so why, why were you –
LH: Still own it, well only some, the brothers still owns it, but anyway.
JM: Right, okay.
LH: Been in the family.
JM: All that since, that’s a hundred and sixteen years.
LH: Yes.
JM: My goodness gracious, and er, so did the whole family move to Brisbane?
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: So what, so what father, father just had somebody looking after the farm while you were up in –
LH: No he used to come down on Mondays –
JM: Right.
LH: To the farm and go back on Friday.
JM: Oh okay.
LH: Spend the weekend with him.
JM: Oh okay right, right.
LH: He had share farmers in.
JM: Share farmers in helping him, right.
LH: The farm was split into two farms.
JM: Right, right, okay, well that’s interesting. So you did your education in –
LH: That’s the reason mum nagged him into taking us to Brisbane so that we could go have a good education, completely wasted just quietly, but, [laughs], I’ve always been sorry that the poor old bugger [laughs], wasted all that money on us.
JM: Mmm.
LH: Went to the Brisbane Grammar School.
JM: Right, okay.
LH: Just on Brisbane [unclear]
JM: Yes, yes, a good school. And, and did you finish your Leaving Certificate there or -?
LH: No juniors, that was juniors.
JM: Intermediate.
LH: Came back when I was fifteen.
JM: Fifteen okay. Right, yes well if I did some arithmetic when you said you went back to ’39, fifteen, yes that’s right. 0kay so when you went back to the farm, did you then work on the farm?
LH: Yes.
JM: Right.
LH: I never learnt anything till I got on the job.
JM: [laughs] So basically you were just an offsider to dad on the farm.
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: So what were you running on the farm?
LH: Well now there was dairies in those days.
JM: Yes, yes, very much so.
LH: We converted to cane after the war.
JM: After the war right, that was a fairly early conversion still though really, wasn’t it? You would have been one of the first cane –
LH: Well no, they used to have cane back, oh the sugar mill had been on the cleat since 1880 or something like that.
JM: Oh yes, with the Con, the Condong one you’re talking about?
LH: Yes, the Condong Mill yes, yes, and most of the farms grew some sugar but er, dad had a [unclear] went on the dairy, stayed on the dairy the whole time.
JM: Right and what and then he went back to the sugar afterwards?
LH: Well he died three months after I joined the Air Force.
JM: Oh I see.
LH: He died in 1942.
JM: Right.
LH: Yes, three months after I joined the Air Force. [phone ringing]
JM: Okay Lindsay’s now dealt with his phone call so that’s all good. So we were, you were saying your father died in ’42.
LH: Yes ’42 three months after I joined the Air Force, he had a heart attack, fifty five.
JM: Goodness me, okay so –
LH: I’d been away at that time initial training, ITS.
JM: Right, right okay, so that’s interesting.
LH: But er, they didn’t call me out of the Air Force because me brother was coming back from the Middle East, he’d been at the Battle of Alamein, and the night he was coming home .
JM: Right.
LH: But unbeknown to us somebody pulled strings in parliament and got him out so when he landed back in Australia to run the farm.
JM: Run the farm.
LH: ‘Cos mum didn’t have a clue.
JM: Yes, yes. So were there just you and your brother, one other brother?
LH: No just after that the eldest brother was killed in Malaya, on the Thai Railway, he was, well he died on that anyway. Then there’s my brother, the one coming back he was in the [unclear] and then there was me, there’s four years between each of us.
JM: Each of you okay. And so, so you, you were helping dad on the farm until you enlisted.
LH: Yes.
JM: And so you just enlisted when?
LH: I got in the Air Training Corps, I did a year in that before, well I started when it started up.
JM: When it started up.
LH: In Murwillumbah.
JM: In Murwillumbah, so that was what when you were sixteen/seventeen?
LH: Yeah, sixteen.
JM: Sixteen. And then you enlisted then as soon as you were eighteen.
LH: Yes.
JM: And you enlisted in Brisbane?
LH: Brisbane yes.
JM: Okay and then you did your initial training, you said, at Kingaroy.
LH: Kingaroy.
JM: So that would have been what early ’43, or did you start in late –
LH: Late ’42.
JM: Late ’42 so you would have started up there in December? Did you?
LH: No it was before that, sixth of the eleventh ’42.
JM: Yeah, that was your enlistment but what about your ITS?
LH: That’s when I went in.
JM: That’s when you went in, oh right, so that was Kingaroy. So after Kingaroy when did you do your WOP, your wireless operator?
LH: I did it at Maryborough.
JM: You did it as Maryborough and what date was that? That’s July ’43, you were certified on the fourteenth of the eighth ’43, so that’s July ’43.
LH: Yeah that’s was wireless.
JM: Yes that’s your wireless, that’s what I’m saying.
LH: Then we went to do the gunnery course.
JM: Yeah then you did the gunnery after that, yes, which I presume was at Evanshead?
LH: Evanshead, yes.
JM: So Maryborough was fourteenth eighth ’43 was the graduation of that, and then the gunnery at er, was graduation at Evanshead was 17th September ’43 so that’s all good, okay. So how did you find, what I mean, I guess we can backtrack just a second, the fact that you had joined the ATC you had, you had an interest in that?
LH: Yes, it was always going to be Air Force.
JM: It was always going to be Air Force, yeah, and as I say having joined the ATC then obviously the natural progression was to go to in –
LH: So as soon as you got your eighteenth birthday you didn’t do anything, they just sent us to the centre in Brisbane.
JM: In Brisbane.
LH: To be interviewed.
JM: Okay. And what, what, what process was there for putting you into wireless, did you ask to do wireless or did they say –
LH: When I enlisted I didn’t but then I, yes, I did.
JM: What, ask for wireless?
LH: Yes, when I first went up for an interview. Well I had a sister, see, who had all these pilots, and gunners, and navigators, [unclear] visiting her, wireless ops [unclear]. Well I always figured I wasn’t confident enough to put myself in the hands of a crew, you know, I never felt, I had to be part of the crew but not the pilot.
JM: Not the pilot, okay. So you specifically decided on, on wireless so that’s good, so then they were able to oblige and you um, did, did your wireless, and then of course the usual story that they got the wireless people to also do the air gunning course as well so you –
LH: I held a gunning gunnery hits on the [unclear] board for Evanshead.
JM: Oh did you.
LH: Yes, well he told me when I was, just when he left, before we left, they definitely give me a [unclear] and everything I had thirty percent hits on the grove which was unheard of.
JM: Oh really.
LH: Yes.
JM: Well there you go. Was that because you’d been doing some shooting on the farm?
LH: Well I fired little bursts, instead of long bursts, they had what they called a Vickers Go Gun, gas operated, and it used to jump around and we were in the back of Fairy Battles, and we had no communication with the pilot at all. To start firing he waved his wings and to stop firing he pumped the tail up and down. And we were attached to the floor by [laughs], by a, a, what we called a fair rein, it was clipped if you didn’t have that on, you bounced up and down, you really hit the top. [laughs]
JM: You made –
LH: And we used to shoot at aluminium patches on the water and sand patches on the gunnery range.
JM: Right, so the patches on the water were in the ocean I presume?
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: Out there off Lennox Head or something I suppose –
LH: No there’s a gunnery range, a bombing range just beside Evanshead.
JM: Right, right okay, interesting. And so you ended up with the top score, well at that point obviously.
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: It would be interesting to know whether anyone ever bettered that after –
LH: Well I don’t think they would have.
JM: Yeah.
LH: Because you’re alone, the gauge wasn’t all that big [unclear]
JM: No.
LH: Used to jump around so much –
JM: Jump around so much.
LH: Yeah anyway.
JM: As I said –
LH: That’s said my claim to fame.
JM: Your claim to fame.
LH: [laughs]
JM: Oh I’m sure there’s a few other claims to fame, but um. as I say, did you do, when you were on the farm, did you do a lot of shooting –
LH: Oh we used to do a lot of shooting, oh yes.
JM: So therefore, you probably had quite a bit of, you were your aim was pretty, you know.
LH: Oh yes.
JM: And I guess, what were you shooting on the farm?
LH: Anything that moved, pigeons.
JM: Pigeons yeah.
LH: Pigeons.
JM: Did you have any foxes, rabbits or anything like that?
LH: No, there’d foxes but not rabbits.
JM: Did you shoot foxes as well?
LH: Well if we saw them we did.
JM: Yes, yes. So all of those moving targets would, would be very useful training for you in terms of –
LH: Yes, yes, oh I always thought I’d have been better as a gunner than a wireless op actually [unclear].
JM: Oh well, that’s all a good back story there so –
LH: It was no long, not long after this that we were sent to Sydney to get the boat, we didn’t know where we were going to.
JM: Going, no.
LH: Just put on the boat and sent to San Francisco.
JM: Yes okay. So you went down to um, you went to, you were sent to Sydney and then you –
LH: Transferred. We missed the first boat. What happened, they put us on leave when we left Maryborough, final leave they called it, and then we had to go to the South Brisbane Railway Station to get the train to Sydney, and the fellow, the fellow who was handling all these troops that were using the train, the train, he kept sending us home. And then they found that we should have been gone a month before, and anyway he put us on the train and sent us to Sydney and we missed the boat, and they sent us onto Melbourne and we missed the boat again, and then they sent us back to Sydney and then we got on the “USS Westpoint”, which was an American troop ship but it was an American top cruise liner before the war. “Miss America” it was before the war.
JM: Mmm.
LH: And believe it or not, we’d heard about these troop ship meals, you know, how terrible they were.
JM: Mmm.
LH: The first meal we had [unclear], turkey and asparagus and sweetcorn [laughs], we couldn’t believe it [laughs].
JM: So you lucked out, having had the inconvenience of going Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, all over the place, you ended up on –
LH: On the cruise ship.
JM: On the best ship.
LH: Three hundred and forty of us I think, on this forty thousand ton liner.
JM: Wow.
LH: Yes and we went to San Francisco.
JM: And you didn’t have any yanks, US troops of course, they –
LH: A few Americans, pregnant, no a few Australian pregnant women, and a few American wounded.
JM: Right.
LH: Yes.
JM: Right.
LH: But the women, there was a couple of dozen of them you know.
JM: Yes, yes.
LH: ‘Cos they were all coming this way.
JM: Yes, yes. So then, you had three hundred and fifty troops on this –
LH: Three hundred and forty, yes.
JM: Three hundred and forty troops on this huge boat, so you had a life of luxury compared to a lot of the other chaps.
LH: Oh hell yes, yes.
JM: Did you each have your own cabin or did you have to share?
LH: No, no, no, no, no, they put us in a very confined space.
JM: Oh did they now, oh.
LH: Yes, yes, a very confined space.
JM: Oh that wasn’t very nice.
LH: Well it was really, no, we had plenty of water, and plenty of everything you know.
JM: Yeah, yeah.
LH: Plenty of food, we could hardly get down the gangplank when we got to San Francisco [laughs]. And then they sent us across from San Francisco to New York, we got on the train.
JM: By train, yes.
LH: San Francisco and got off in New York, got off and then we were –
JM: No that’s right, and that was the normal thing, just to push you straight through. So then you got to New York, did you have any time in New York, before you left New York?
LH: Yeah we had a, had a I think a week or two, we were waiting, at that time that’s when the “Queen Mary” had to cruise in to, yeah, it had just got back into action. We didn’t go on the “Queen Mary”, we went on the “Andes”.
JM: Right.
LH: Just over twenty-seven thousand ton cruiser, we went from there to Liverpool.
JM: Right, oh Liverpool, okay, that’s different. So what date are we talking about here now? So, I guess if we finished the training, it has to be, you finished your gunnery training in September ’43, so this has to be end of ’43, potentially even early ’44?
LH: I think that the change of currency on the boat [pause], [looking through log book].
JM: Yeah, that’s right. Sorry.
LH: August 1943-44, air to sea.
JM: Yeah that’s you starting to do your gunnery stuff so we need to go past that.
LH: March/April ’44 that’s when we got in to Ansons.
JM: Ansons. Okay so obviously the point is that March, so obviously you’ve landed in the UK around about March, March ’44, is a good approximation for, for all we need at the moment. Okay so you –
LH: We were sent to advanced flying, thirty-first of the three, ‘43.
JM: Yes.
LH: That was Ansons.
JM: Yes, and what dates was that, that was the March and April was it?
LH: March/April ’44.
JM: Yes okay. And so what do you remember about that, that would have been the first time, because I mean –
LH: There was night flying.
JM: Night flying yes, ‘cos you had. wouldn’t have done, because your flying up until that date was only sort of sitting in the back of the other plane –
LH: Of the Fairy Battles.
JM: Fairy Battles, doing your –
LH: Being whacked [unclear].
JM: Yeah, yeah, so this is your first time in –
LH: Mainly Ansons.
JM: Er, a big plane, when you’re actually enclosed so to speak as well, because the Fairy Battles are open canopy there so, so was that the first time you’d been in a full plane like that.
LH: Yeah, yeah.
JM: Had you done any flying in the ATC, had you been up in the air at any time?
LH: No, no, no.
JM: So this was when you found out whether you really liked flying or not?
LH: Well I was always a bit worried about it [laughs] but it was better than marching [laughs].
JM: Yes.
LH: Well we got on the Ansons the thirty-first of the third ’43 to the thirteenth of the fourth ’44 [pause].
JM: Right, okay, and so –
LH: That was just for practice bombing mostly.
JM: Bombing, so basic flying, well advanced flying I should say, yes. So what did you do, so you probably did a, probably did at least one other, well you would have done OTU?
LH: We were sent to Silverstone on the fourth of the fifth ’44 to crew up.
JM: Oh okay, so that’s when you did your crewing up, yeah, okay. And what was, which squadron, what base were you at there?
LH: Silverstone.
JM: Silverstone, and did you have a squadron number there I should say?
LH: No, no, no, no.
JM: No, no, no.
LH: We just crewed up.
JM: Crewed up, yeah.
LH: They put, I think, thirty of each of you all –
JM: In a big room, square room.
LH: Didn’t know who they were, you had to sort yourself out.
JM: And so you, did you have any Australians, any of the chaps that you came over on the boat with, or any of the chaps that you done any of your training with?
LH: No, no, the fellows we came over on the boat with, they were there for wireless ops but none of the others.
JM: Yeah, so it was only the wireless ops that you knew.
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: And obviously being only one on each plane, you weren’t going to end up together.
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: So okay. So which, so what did you end up with in the crew?
LH: Well there was an Australian pilot and navigator.
JM: Right, who was your pilot?
LH: Jackson, Flight Sergeant Jackson.
JM: Yes.
LH: And er, and navigator Jim Wilson, and there was bomb aimer he, his name was Fred McClure, and then I was the other, I was the wireless op, and there were two pommie gunners.
JM: Right.
LH: Yes, so that was the six, you didn’t pick up the engineer until just –
JM: Oh once you start, almost dreaded, start ops.
LH: That was when you, oh yeah, when you got to heavy conversion.
JM: Heavy conversion, yeah that’s right, okay.
LH: So that went to [unclear] it’s on Wellingtons.
JM: Mmm, hmm.
LH: On the twenty-ninth of the fifth.
JM: Twenty-ninth of the fifth, okay, so all good.
LH: Then we were sent to 17 OTU at Towcester, at Towcester or whatever you call it. No that’s we’re still on Silverstone here. The fourth of the seventh ’44, yeah that was the last trip when we finished with Wellingtons.
JM: Right.
LH: Fourth of the seventh, yeah.
JM: Right, and then –
LH: And they wouldn’t even let us, they made us stay for the last one, but the pilot got married and they wouldn’t let us go to his wedding, yeah. We finished our last one with Wing Commander Lister, but anyway.
JM: Right, so then, so then you went into your OTU?
LH: No that was the end of the OTU.
JM: That was the end of the OTU, so when did the OTU end, that was at the fourth of the seventh was it?
LH: Ah, OTU.
JM: I wouldn’t have thought so, that I would have thought, it would have been a bit –
LH: Fourth of the seventh, yeah.
JM: Was that when it finished was it?
LH: Yeah, yeah, when OTU, that was on the Wellingtons.
JM: Right, okay. So what leave did you have in between any of this, so what did you do?
LH: Well we were given a week or two at the end of OTU and then we were sent to er, Heavy Conversion Unit [pause], Heavy Conversion Unit, Winthorpe, on the tenth of the eighth ’44, that was on Stirlings.
JM: Yep.
LH: Yeah, and that’s er –
JM: And that was probably about a month was it?
LH: [Looking through photos/book]
JM: Be careful, don’t rip them. It’s, it’s stuck there, so you probably won’t be able to separate that for the moment, but I will -
LH: Oh that’s it.
JM: Yeah but I wouldn’t, it’s very stuck up on this corner I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t be –
LH: The pages –
JM: Yeah, be careful, yeah well either that or it’s deliberately, looks like it’s been deliberately glued together so –
LH: Well there’s the summary for the course, that’s the Heavy Conversion, er, August/September 1944 unit [unclear] 1661, dated eleventh of the ninth ’44.
JM: Yes that’s right, that makes sense.
LH: I wonder why they glued them together?
JM: Oh possibly there was some figures that needed to be changed and rather than changing the figures they just glued the pages together to go into a new –
LH: Then there was the Lancaster Finishing School at Syerston, that was on the twenty-ninth of the ninth ’44, and the second of the tenth ’44. Then they sent us to Scotland.
JM: Yeah, okay.
LH: October ’44, 4th October.
JM: Right.
LH: Then we were given a few familiarise station exercises and then we were sent to Nuremburg.
JM: Right okay.
LH: Remembering what the one before [laughs].
JM: Yeah okay, well we’ll come to that in a moment, let’s just backtrack for a second. You said you had a week’s leave at the end of –
LH: At the end of OTU.
JM: OTU.
LH: Yes.
JM: And so what did you do, what sort of places did you go to?
LH: Oh well I always wanted to go to Scotland and we had a Scotch rear gunner, so I went up to Edinburgh with him, spent all my leaves in Edinburgh and then I –
JM: Right, right, well so that was good. And so you met his, did you stay with him and stay with his family?
LH: No, no, no, no, ‘cos he er, I had a hostel that started like the Australian Air Force started one later on, so we used to stay in hostel accommodation.
JM: Right, right, okay. And so did you see a bit of Scotland then did you, or just around Edinburgh?
LH: Mainly round Edinburgh but I got to know a few people there, lovely people, and up to Aberdeen and that’s about as far as we went.
JM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well with only a week that didn’t give you much scope, but I mean –
LH: Well when we got on the squadron, you was supposed to get ten days leave every six weeks, but as the crews kept knocking off you kept moving forward, and then you had ten days every four weeks, and they were very good to us there was [unclear] give us five bob a day every day, every day, we were on leave that’s money, isn’t it.
JM: Oh my, yeah. So your crew altogether at this stage and at this point you’ve also now picked up your engineer I guess?
LH: Yes, we picked him up at the Stirlings, with the Stirlings.
JM: Yeah okay. And who was your engineer?
LH: A Joe Black, a Geordie from Newcastle.
JM: Right.
LH: Nice little fella.
JM: Yes, and so then um, you were posted to 57 Squadron and –
LH: 4th October ’44.
JM: 4th October, yep, and that’s, you did a few training runs?
LH: The first op was on the nineteenth, we did a fortnight’s familiarisation you know.
JM: Yeah okay. So your first op was –
LH: Nuremburg.
JM: Was Nuremburg. Nothing like a small task to start with?
LH: Yes.
JM: What was it –
LH: Well they lost ten per cent, they lost more on the trip before that than they lost in the whole of the Battle of Britain.
JM: Yes.
LH: Five Hundred and Sixty, they lost ten per cent of their planes on the trip before.
JM: Mmm.
LH: Over eighty planes. Eighty planes with [unclear] would you believe, yeah.
JM: So this would be in October ‘40?
LH: Yes, 19th of October ’44.
JM: Yep.
LH: And the second one was, the second was on the twenty-eighth that was to Bergen, Norway, U-Boats pens.
JM: Right. So what –
LH: That was a, oh no, the second op was the twenty-third, it was to Flushing in Holland, that was the second op.
JM: Right.
LH: That was done in [unclear], air gunners [unclear].
JM: Right.
LH: We nearly came to grief then because we got er, it was a beautiful day and the pilot didn’t put his retaining harness on, and we were just cruising along at about three and a half thousand feet, and then an anti-aircraft shell exploded in the bomb bay and put the plane in a mad dive. Up to three and a half thousand, and he didn’t have his harness on and he was floating in mid-air, and he ended up, he had to put his two feet on the control panels to pull us out. The only time I prayed [laughs]. Nearly wet, nearly wet me pants as well. I didn’t. We were all in mid-air, the plane was in a vertical dive –
JM: Vertical dive –
LH: Yes, yes, and we nearly came to grief then but anyway –
JM: So he managed, he just managed to exert enough pressure –
LH: Well he pulled us out yes, but well we didn’t have much clearance from the ground by the time he –
JM: Was it ground or water you were over at that point, ground?
LH: We were over the water going in to the downspin, but [unclear], well we’d have been over the sands, but that was where the gun emplacement was.
JM: Right.
LH: And the third one was er –
JM: Just a minute before you go to the third one, let’s go back to Nuremburg. What can you tell me about Nuremburg?
LH: That’s the third one. Oh no, it’s the first one.
JM: No, Nuremburg was the first one.
LH: Now when you go to, go to, before you go on ops your pilot is put in with another crew in –
JM: Second dickie?
LH: Yes, second dickie, and he did that, and when we got to Nuremburg nobody seemed to know what to look for. Well see, I’m inside the rear turret, and one of the gunners saw these lights out of the port and we went, and we were late over the target, nearly everybody had gone home then.
JM: Any particular reason for being late or-
LH: Well that’s because they’d missed, instead of turning off at the right time to make the bombing run, they’d overshot and had to turn round and come back.
JM: Back, oh.
LH: Yeah, yeah. And then once the bomb aimer got his sights on the thing, he told us, open the thing, put the nose down and go for it. Yeah, but we had quite a few near misses though shrapnel holes in the plane.
JM: Right, from that trip, from that?
LH: From anti-aircraft guns.
JM: Anti-aircraft guns.
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: Well I mean I guess if you are on your own, you’re a bit more of a target when you’re sort of sitting out there on your own.
LH: Yes, yes, yes. And they’d all gone, yes. By then probably all the guns were in their fixed position, so they’d put them in a fixed position and just fire as many shells. As soon as they found what the bombing height was, they’d just fire guns into us, you know.
JM: Yes yes.
LH: But you couldn’t sort of aim at them. Anyway, that was another near miss.
JM: Yeah, yeah. So all those holes, golly gosh, yes.
LH: Then the third one was Bergen.
JM: Yes.
LH: That was over Norway a submarine pen.
JM: Gosh and what happened there?
LH: Nothing much happened –
JM: Nothing much –
LH: Oh well, it was a, it was one of those targets that they, the Germans put them near the village as a, and they generally tried to put up a smoke screen, but if you got in before it, and they hadn’t marked it, but they wanted you to sort of get near misses. And knock off population so we didn’t get too friendly, sort of thing.
JM: So did you have any pathfinders going in dropping anything for you or in advance, or were you on your own just doing your own thing?
LH: No, no, [unclear] there would have been a couple of hundred planes I suppose, yes building up.
JM: Right, gosh that’s a fair number.
LH: Yeah. As I say anyway, it was well marked, I mean.
JM: It was well marked by simply just the number of planes.
LH: Yes.
JM: Okay. So that’s the end, that’s getting towards the end of ’44?
LH: That’s the end of October, and then the 1st November was Homberg, that was oil refineries.
JM: Mmm.
LH: Nothing particular there I don’t suppose. And then that’s the 1st November, the 2nd November it was Dusseldorf, it was daytime yeah, that was the [unclear], then the 4th of November was Dortmund-Ems Canal. Strange to say that was one of the most dangerous targets in Europe because they relied a hell of a lot on the Dortmund-Ems for transport, and the only thing they’d do, we could do was, there were two viaducts in Gravenhorst and Ladbergen and let the water out, blow the [unclear]. Now the Germans, then they’d build them up again and just when they were about open, we’d go back and blow them down, so they’d know when we were coming and that’s why it was one of the most dangerous targets believe it or not.
JM: Because they organised their defences because they anticipated your return.
LH: Yes, yes. They nearly brought is down later on [unclear]. And then the next one from that was Turin, that was a tactical target, and that one the wheels, the undercarriage wouldn’t lock down or wouldn’t say that it was locked down, so we sent a crash [unclear] to Carnaby, but anyway it had just a malfunction in the electricals as it happened, so we landed on [unclear]. And then [unclear], oh that was at Carnaby. Then the next one was the twenty-first, that was Gravenhorst, had to go up and somehow bomb the other viaduct.
JM: Right, again was that a similar sort of story in terms of the way they protected the –
LH: Yes, yes, ‘cos they waited for us.
JM: Yes.
LH: And then the next one was Trondheim, Trondheim.
JM: Back up to Norway?
LH: Yes, back up to Norway, now that was sub pen again. Now what happened there we had to, had to fly at night under a hundred and fifty feet for a thousand miles and we didn’t have radio altimeters, and at one stage I dunno how the plane but what they call a long tailing area, a long –
JM: Yes.
LH: It’s got a lot of little ball bearings on the end of that –
JM: Ball bearings, yes.
LH: And that hit the water and tore up, it was only thirty feet under the plane.
JM: Under the plane.
LH: And everybodys screaming, “climb”, and [laughs] but er, to make it worse, we got there and then they put up a smokescreen and they couldn’t get a clear view to mark the target, so having done all that, we had to fly back with the bomb load.
JM: Without dropping the bombs?
LH: Yes.
JM: So did you drop them off –
LH: We didn’t have to fly back low, we came back at normal height.
JM: Normal height sort of thing, yeah. But did you drop the bombs?
LH: No, no, we landed with them.
JM: Landed with them.
LH: There’s only a few, well most of the ‘dromes were alerted all the way from top of Scotland down to Lincoln, expecting we wouldn’t make it to land there, but we got back to base. I think there was only two planes that were struggling a bit for base and you know. Well we landed with one hundred and forty gallons in the tank, but it was, it was, that was two thousand miles.
JM: Well I was going to say, it’s a long way up to Trondheim.
LH: Two thousand miles.
JM: Yep.
LH: Two thousand one hundred and forty-five gallons of petrol, so that worked out a mile to the gallon.
JM: Plus all the bombs.
LH: Carrying bombs and everything, and we carried them there and we carried them back, yes.
JM: Yes. Amazing, must have been a very good pilot to be able to manage the, the, to nurse it along to maximise, yes –
LH: Yes, yes. So that was –
JM: So that’s your pilot, and that was still, um, Jackson?
LH: Oh yeah, all the time they’re all Jackson.
JM: Yeah. What’s his first name?
LH: Jerry.
JM: Jerry.
LH: Jerald.
JM: Jerald, mmm mmm.
LH: Harcourt I think was his, J H, Harcourt, Jerald Harcourt Jackson.
JM: Oh, okay.
LH: And anyway that was the twenty, that was the 3rd November. Then we get to December [unclear], that was on the fourth. The sixth was Giesson, that’s night time raid. And the ninth was Heimbach Dam, the first drop on Heimbach Dam was abandoned, I don’t know why I record it anyway. And then we did a daylight on Heimbach later on, that was on the eleventh of December, then must have gone on leave.
JM: So you didn’t do, in December you didn’t do anything on the Baltic Fleet in um, um, I don’t know how you pronounce it. Gdynia or something like that [spells it out].
LH: Oh Gdynia
JM: Yes.
LH: No.
JM: No you didn’t do any of that, right.
LH: No. There’s just [unclear] and Heimback Dam, then we were put on leave.
JM: Right, so what did you do for your leave there?
LH: Edinburgh.
JM: Edinburgh again, yes.
LH: [laughs] yeah.
JM: Did you have some attraction up there by this stage or not?
LH: Well I did have some. Funny thing, in 1962 one of the girls I used to go out with turned up in the Tumbulgum pub as the barmaid.
JM: Good heavens.
LH: By then I had five kids and a wife and everything, and she thought we could just go [unclear] [laughs]. Anyway I never said anything to my wife ever about it, but anyway it was good [unclear] because the pub was full when she was the barmaid there, and the proprietor thought she was paying a bit too much attention to his, to her husband, so she fired her, and she took all the customers up to the Riverview Hotel at Murwillumbah [laughs]. You could have tried to get in, but bloody emptied the pub. Anyway how the hell she found me after twenty years after the bloody war well –
JM: Amazing, she must have been keen.
LH: Oh she was [unclear] she was beautiful.
JM: Well, well.
LH: Well now we come to January.
JM: Come to January.
LH: The 1st of January, back to Ladbergen again, the Dortmund Ems, and then on the fourth, Royan, that was a garrison of er, I don’t know, [unclear] the fifth that was [unclear], that was tanks [unclear]. Ah that’s one I’m think about. And then there’s the seventh was Munich, that was a long one.
JM: Anything stand out about that one?
LH: It was eleven and a half hours, the Klondean one, it was a very long flight. Sorry what did you say?
JM: Did that Munich, anything about the Munich trip stand out or just, or was it just –
LH: Only the Swiss, came back over Switzerland, you could nearly hear the people drinking gin slings, and all the lakes were black, all around was white, and all the lights were lit up, because all Europe was blacked out, oh beautiful, why we didn’t bail out I don’t know [laughs]. Oh beautiful. And then on the fourteenth, it was Merseburg [unclear] oil refineries. On the sixteenth was Brux, that was Czechoslovakia oil refineries, that was about ten hours that one, and Merseburg was ten hours too.
JM: Gosh.
LH: Yes, ten hour trip. That took us to the end of January, then put on leave again.
JM: Yep, Edinburgh again?
LH: Yep.
JM: Yeah.
LH: [laughs] That was done for January. Ladbergen again [unclear], and then on the seventh, Pölitz, that was oil refineries, and then, oh that’s one where we nearly came to grief at Pölitz. We got four direct flak hits that put the intercom out, and blew one tail off, it was a hell of a lot, hell of a thing to see, cracked through the main spar, er, not the main spar, the one that the landing flaps were on the –
JM: Yes.
LH: Cracked through that –
JM: Cross member –
LH: No, we didn’t have wings, these were on the landing flaps, and we didn’t know that and it could have come unstuck when we were landing, luckily it didn’t, I mean.
JM: Yeah till, unstuck. And this was in February would you say or late January?
LH: That was 7th February.
JM: 7th February, yep.
LH: And for some reason they gave me a gong for that, I don’t know what for, I didn’t know they posted it out to me [laughs]. Oh, asked if I wanted to go and get it in England [unclear].
JM: No.
LH: No well that was after Pölitz, it was oil refineries. And then the nineteenth was Poland, that was Leipzig, that was more oil refineries. Then the twenty-fourth it was a daylight back to Ladbergen, Dortmund Ems, that was the end of February.
JM: Mmm. There couldn’t have been too much left of it by that stage was there? Or what did they keep building rebuilding it back again, yes –
LH: No they kept building, you know, and I think they knew there’d be plenty of easy targets, you know, there was, they could concentrate on the night fighter force.
JM: Their artillery onto, yes. Bees to the honeypot again was their view, that they could whack ‘em all off, whack ‘em off.
LH: And then March, seventh of the third of March, Ladbergen again.
JM: Mmm.
LH: And then 5th March was Poland oil refineries. The 6th March was Szczecin, that’s the Baltic Port of Denmark , the Germans were evacuating faster than us, ahead of the Russians, well thought out, they, Szczecin was the Danish port, and er, when we went in to bomb they put, we didn’t know, they sent in mine layers just before we went in, and they mined the whole of the front of the harbour and as we started dropping bombs the ships all started up to get out of the harbour they ran into this minefield, yes. It was pretty, I felt sorry for the poor old people killed in that way, but you know [unclear]. And then the seventh, that was to Hamburg, that was oil refineries. And the twentieth was Poland again, Leipzig oil refineries, we was betting on them at that stage. And the twenty-third was Wesel, now we didn’t know that was the crossing of the Rhine, yes we did that.
JM: So you were part of that, that big mission there for that.
LH: Yes [unclear], troop concentration [unclear].
JM: So what did you have a specific target that you had to –
LH: No, no, I think they took Churchill along to view that and they pulled the troops back for miles from the target, It was a pretty significant move in the war.
JM: It was, it was, it was a turning point in terms of, yeah.
LH: Into Germany.
JM: Into Germany. that’s right, yeah, yeah. But you were just part of –
LH: Just part of the bombers.
JM: You don’t remember roughly how many, how many planes were up there that night? Was it, that was another night one I presume?
LH: Aye?
JM: Was that a night or a day?
LH: Oh yeah, night.
JM: Night.
LH: Yeah.
JM: You don’t remember how many were, planes were up that night?
LH: No, there would have been at least two-fifty but no, I don’t think it wouldn’t have been bigger than that I don’t think, but two-fifty was a fair, quite a lot of bombs to drop, ‘cos each one had about seven tons to drop so seven thousand, fourteen thousand pounds.
JM: That’s amazing the amount of bombs when you think two hundred and fifty planes all dropping that sort of thing.
LH: Then back to, back to March [unclear]. Now we can do April [unclear], Nordhausen, now we didn’t know that was a concentration camp at that stage. It was daylight, but when we were coming up on the target I can remember this, the Germans, if they knew what we were up to, they’d put up a box barage and that would be a wall of guns that would be pointed into a, into a put a box that the planes were going to fly through –
JM: Planes were going to fly through, yep –
LH: And then they’d fire as many shells as they could.
JM: Shells as they could.
LH: When we was coming up, it was a beautiful clear day, but this was like a thunder cloud, just when they opened the burst of shells, that’s how many were going, yes, yes, a bit scary but anyway. And then we come to Mölbis, Leipzig, power, oil refineries, and that was the end bit.
JM: So what’s that?
LH: 7th April I think.
JM: Yes, 7th April. But that in total were there –
LH: Thirty-two ops.
JM: Thirty-two ops yeah, that’s, and all the same crew right the way through?
LH: Yes, well the navigator missed one trip, he had the flu or something.
JM: The flu or something, yeah, yeah.
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: But otherwise the complete –
LH: Otherwise it was the same crew
JM: The same crew, yeah, and therefore –
LH: So funny thing, when, when we got hit with lots of flak, you’ve got no idea the incredible amount of damage and yet nobody got hit, nobody no.
JM: That’s amazing isn’t it, that no one got hit, that was incredible.
LH: Yes.
JM: So then let’s go back to Pölitz, um, and you say that so, and that’s where you were, and after that, is where, a as a result of that you were given the DFC, awarded the DFC?
LH: Yes.
JM: Did all the members of the crew get the DFC?
LH: Only the pilot.
JM: The pilot and –
LH: Only me and the pilot.
JM: You and the pilot, right.
LH: It was Pölitz, wasn’t it?
JM: Pölitz, yeah.
LH: Oh yeah, Pölitz.
JM: So what with the, that’s where you had some of the biggest direct hits with the flak?
LH: Yes, yes, yes.
JM: Yes so –
LH: Well we had no idea of what, the plane flew, but why I don’t know. It was really, really, one tail was blown off completely.
JM: One tail gone, yes.
LH: It was such a mass of holes, yes.
JM: Did the, didn’t damage the hydraulics or anything so you had to –
LH: Oh yes I was covered in hydraulic oil, well it busted some pipes but er, and they couldn’t, couldn’t, the dry cleaners couldn’t get it out, had to, buggered me uniform, and I stunk like anything with hydraulic oil, yes. And we landed at, I can’t remember the, landed at down near the white cliffs of Dover, a base round there.
JM: Yes. So were you able to land properly?
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: You didn’t have to do a belly landing in the grass or anything?
LH: No, no, no, no. no.
JM: No.
LH: Well we were lucky, I think, I often wonder, this is just between you and me, how many losses were due to poor maintenance you know, because some planes they just went on and on and on and on and on. Like you all had your letters, and some letters kept going pretty, you know, pretty regularly you know, and I was often wondering whether maintenance had to do with some of it. It’s just my thoughts though.
JM: And did you, did you, after like that trip for instance did your plane, did you have to go onto a different plane then?
LH: Well no, we went back –
JM: They patched it up and –
LH: No we had to get back by train.
JM: Yeah, but the plane itself –
LH: Well they patched it up.
JM: Patched it up. So did you do any, so the next missions after that, ops did you do in a different plane or?
LH: No, it didn’t come back to the squadron until after we’d left.
JM: Right.
LH: And that was one of the things that stuck in me craw, because the crew that went down to fly it back to the base they, there was a, one of the WAAF’s at the station was getting an award to something and one of the London newspapers took the crew down to get pictures of her directing the plane in, and it was our plane, and they sent each of ‘em a big photo.
JM: A great big photo.
LH: He showed it to me but he wouldn’t give it to me, he didn’t. Miserable bugger.
JM: Who was that who showed it to you?
LH: It, it was a fella that did one op before the war ended and they’d gone down to pick it up.
JM: They’d gone down to pick it up. So they effectively were, nonetheless the paper didn’t have a clue the fact that this crew was purely doing a ferrying run and had nothing to do with the plane itself?
LH: Yes, yes, it was on a ferry run.
JM: Yes, yes, I see.
LH: So that’s it again, there’s the plane there you see [showing photo].
JM: Yep, yep, right.
LH: It had done ninety-seven trips by the end of the war.
JM: So you were, so you were flying “Sugar” were you?
LH: “Sugar”, yeah.
JM: Yeah, okay.
LH: And it had done ninety-seven trips by the end of the war and er –
JM: So what did you, so which one did you fly for the last, ‘cos you basically did another two months –
LH: Oh well I said, I think the last one was “W”.
JM: Yeah, you had basically two, two more months ahead of you, about another seven or eight.
LH: Yeah, they just put us on any plane that was available.
JM: Right, yeah.
LH: After, after Pölitz was “O”, “P”, “Q”, “W”, the last one was “W”.
JM: So would you say that there was any one event or sequence of events, out of all of that, that stayed with you more than anything else?
LH: No not really, just that we were incredibly lucky in stages.
JM: Lucky, yeah.
LH: No I think luck played a hell of a part really, but we had a good crew you know, a very good navigator and a very good pilot and yes. He used to worry me, he was so small but [laughs], and the funny thing, he couldn’t even drive a bloody car and two years later he’s flying a plane [laughs].
JM: It’s a common story that many of them were flying planes before they had licences, that’s what is a very common story and it’s just so, so bizarre that, and not only were they flying planes but they were flying planes in the most extraordinary difficult and dangerous circumstances and, and it just –
LH: Eighteen hundred killed training you know.
JM: That’s right extraordinary numbers. And then, with, so then you were, was on leave before you then discharged –
LH: We was put on leave until we were –
JM: Until you discharged, so that was April, so you basically had nearly six months, April, May, June, July, August, September, five months, so you had some leave over in the UK, and then you were, when did you come back to Australia?
LH: Well, I had my twenty-first birthday on the boat we came back through the Suez via Panama Canal.
JM: Right, well just a second the leave that you had after you concluded, you completed your tour –
LH: We went on leave until we were called to Brighton.
JM: Right.
LH: And then that was about a month, and from there we waited for a boat to come home, and that was “The Andes”.
JM: Again. So you went over and back on the same –
LH: Yes, we went over we crossed the Atlantic on “The Andes”, and we came all the way back to Australia on “The Andes” through the Panama Canal. It was a very interesting trip.
JM: Oh.
LH: And then when we got back here we were put on leave and then of course, the war ended before even we were given any jobs, and then I must have been a nutcase because while I was on leave, I got a telegram asking if I’d take a job, if I was interested in distant um, taking charge of a section of thirty-four WAAFs, mind you, in Bradfield Park and discharged, and I knocked it back [laughs]. And then later, there was one time, asked me if I’d like to go back to the victory ceremony on “The Sydney” to England, and I knocked that back. I must have been a bloody nutcase.
JM: Mmm.
LH: But anyway that’s that. I just wanted to get out.
JM: Yeah, you wanted to get out and er, um –
LH: Two offers like that, bloody hell.
JM: Good offers. So you don’t recall any particular reasoning, apart from the fact that you’d just had enough and you wanted out? Is that probably the, just the main -
LH: Well the war was over really –
JM: Yes that’s right, the war was over by that stage. So just backtracking there for a second, when you were on leave before you went down to Brighton, was that back to Scotland again?
LH: Yes, Aberdeen and that yeah, yeah. Oh we got in with some returning PoW’s, sort of thing, they’d been in German PoW camps, wild as ever, yeah, yeah [laughs].
JM: Yeah –
LH: Everybody’s letting their hair down sort of thing, yes.
JM: Well that’s right, I mean, imagine what it would have been like for those guys in the PoW camps.
LH: Oh, boys open like jack rabbits, hey no, to tell you what they must have been well looked after ‘cause they were all in pretty good condition.
JM: Okay. So then you had your twenty-first birthday on the boat on the return home?
LH: Yes.
JM: And um, and you said you came home, you, and you, the route for your return home?
LH: Through the Panama.
JM: The Panama, so that was an interesting experience.
LH: Yes, yes. They wouldn’t let us off the boat at Colón, that was the Atlantic side of Panama because the mob before us went through the town and wrecked it –
JM: Wrecked it, yeah.
LH: Yes, so they wouldn’t let us off, we had to stay on the boat.
JM: Right.
LH: [unclear].
JM: And were you confined to a small area again?
LH: On the boat?
JM: On the boat
LH: Well we –
JM: Were you allowed a bit more, spread out a bit more?
LH: Well you had your bunk, you had your bunk, but you had the run of the boat sort of thing.
JM: So how, but I suppose you would have been –
LH: But I couldn’t get over, we, we was warrant officers of course, not officers, and we were warrant officers and because oh, up to sergeant they were treated like the troops, but we had stewards and everything and you had everything set out on tables, table cloths and everything, yeah. Oh, we lived like bloody princes all the way home.
JM: All the way home, yeah.
LH: Yeah.
JM: And were there a few more troops on board, coming home, than there were going out?
LH: I think about two thousand, I think about twenty-two hundred I think on the boat coming home.
JM: Yeah, yeah. So slightly more than going over.
LH: Yeah, there were a couple of hundred FANYS, that’s Field Ambulance National Service Women, and that was it I think. And the officers looked after them, they didn’t let the troops [laughs].
JM: Didn’t let the troops near them, protected them, yeah.
LH: Yeah [laughs]. I tell you what, if you came through it you wouldn’t miss it for quids, you know you don’t think of the odds, it but it’s a really, a really good experience anyhow.
JM: How do you feel it changed your life?
LH: Well I was told, 1945 to 1984 that I had post-traumatic stress for all that time. Well I didn’t say anything, I knew I wasn’t right, but at one stage I used to ball, start crying for no bloody reason. I, I, you know, I’m still a bit of a nutcase, but thirty nearly forty years after the war [unclear], he said, ‘you should have been on a pension at the end of the war’, but nobody read it.
JM: Nobody recognised it.
LH: They had, if you got that in Bomber Command you’re classified LMF, yeah and that went on your record, yeah. Sorry if I was a bit rude but anyway, yeah. And then in the First World War, they used to shoot them for cowardice, yeah. I can’t, I know some fellas used to disappear off the squadron but we never sort of queried it so maybe they could have been some breaking down.
JM: Mmm, right.
LH: But I always used to look out the window when we took off, think, now there’s twenty going and nineteen coming back, surely the odds were in my favour, but, well you sort of think like that, but I don’t know why, yeah. Probably funny, you probably think it’s funny.
JM: No I don’t think it’s funny, I mean it’s, it’s just an amazing um set of circumstances to be working through when, when you know you are not even twenty-one. I mean it’s just, I think of what, what you chaps went through and what youth of today sort of sees as a problem for them and I think they, they don’t, their not in the same ballpark, it’s just a terribly different world so.
LH: I think the secret was not to let it get to you.
JM: Yeah.
LH: Not, not to dwell on things that you did do. But the thing that stuck in me crew and I didn’t get a campaign medal, that really stuck in me crew.
JM: Which campaign medal was that?
LH: For Bomber Command, you didn’t get a campaign medal. You could send away for one in 1970, but it wasn’t a, a one that was recommended by the Air Force.
JM: But there is one that’s now available for the Australian Bomber Command.
LH: Yes I got one.
JM: Oh you did get one.
LH: I sent away for one.
JM: Right, yeah.
LH: It was in 1972 –
JM: No, no, no, no. This is within the last few years.
LH: No, no that was just a –
JM: A clasp.
LH: A clasp, yes.
JM: Yes, yes.
LH: I stuck it on and it fell off and I don’t know where the hell it is anyway, yes.
JM: Right.
LH: And they told us that, and when I rang up, that’s another thing that stuck in me craw, I rang up about that to somebody over in England and they said, ‘Oh you contact somebody down in [unclear] because you’re colonials’. I thought, mmm, right buggers –
JM: No there –
LH: They, they sort of looked on us as a different class but they didn’t then.
JM: No, no, that’s right.
LH: But I thought it was a bit of an insult actually.
JM: So which particular, so which you’ve got 39.5 Star.
LH: Yes.
JM: Yeah, what else and which and –
LH: Oh I’ve got them all on a, on a thing there.
JM: Okay well we’ll get back, we’ll get those shortly then, we’ll come back to those. So then you came back, so there were quite a few Australians in the crew there, there was what, there was only one, one Englishman wasn’t there, two?
LH: Two, two.
JM: One was Scottish.
LH: Three, the engineer and two gunners.
JM: The engineer and two gunners that’s right. So did you keep in touch with the pilot, the navigator, or the bomb aimer, once you all came back?
LH: No I never, I never was one for writing letters, some of them contacted me. The bomb aimer ended up a homeless alcoholic and he died at er, fairly well he was not an old man, but anyway, and he was really young so I don’t know why, whether, why it would have been him but, his father was a top Melbourne surgeon.
JM: Goodness.
LH: And, and he well, I don’t know.
JM: What about Jerry and um –
LH: No, Jerry who was a lawyer and, and he ended up at Tukka, down on the Murray, and he married a, a fine lady and she came out here.
JM: Do you know if he’s still alive or you don’t?
LH: No, no I’m the only one left out of the crew.
JM: You’re only the one left, yeah, right.
LH: I was the baby of the crew, yes.
JM: Crew right.
LH: The mid upper gunner was twenty-eight, and the rear gunner was thirty-six, but no pretty older than me.
JM: Goodness, thirty-six is very old, yeah.
LH: Yeah, yeah.
JM: I mean, twenty-eight was considered old but thirty-six was even older, but yeah, and compared to you being less than twenty-one –
LH: Yeah, well, Jim, Jim Wilson was about three years older. That’s a funny thing now, he got engaged after the war to a pommy woman, and when he came back here, his mother was in a nursing home with a full time nurse, and he ended up marrying the nurse and cancelling the other one. Now the other one married an American Mustang pilot and she went back to California.
JM: America.
LH: Now here’s where the funny thing happened, Jim’s wife died in 1980 something, late eighties, and he was moping around and his crew, oh no, his kids bought him a trip on a Russian cruise liner, this is incredible, on a Russian cruise liner.
JM: Yeah, to?
LH: Wheeled him onto the liner and said, “Stay there, don’t come back.”
JM: Right, where was this Russian cruise liner going?
LH: I don’t know but anyway the, on the cruise liner the American, the pommy dame that he was engaged to and got married, her husband had died and she was on the Russian cruise liner.
JM: Yes.
LH: Now you wouldn’t read about it.
JM: You would not read about this.
LH: You would not read about it. So anyway, the outcome was that he used to go over and stay with her for four months, and she came out here and stayed at his place for four months, and then they had four months apart. But you, you couldn’t think that up if you were writing a book could you, you could not think that up.
JM: Unbelievable. And what that’s the way they –
LH: Well she yes, she died a few years ago and he died.
JM: They continued that way until they both, until she passed away basically.
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: What an incredible story, I really am –
LH: But you’d have thought she would have had a shitty on him for dumping her in the first place.
JM: Yeah, that’s right, yes.
LH: But that’s, that’s war.
JM: Mmm, that’s right indeed. So then once you discharged in September, you’re back in Australia in September ’45?
LH: Yes.
JM: And knocked back the other bits and pieces, so what, you come back up here to –
LH: No it never shifted from me, it’s the best place in Australia you know.
JM: I know that. So you’re back up here to the farm and –
LH: Yeah well, sort of at a loose end, didn’t know, I didn’t make, I made a bad mistake in I could say bought this war service scheme here, where you bought the farm and then they funded it at three per cent.
JM: Yep.
LH: But I didn’t take that up because my dad was taken, and we end up splitting the farm up, the three boys that was, took a third each, and we arranged, see, dad had left everything for life interest to me mum and we ended up buying it off her at a price that we paid so much a year that if she lived to be ninety-five that she’d have a good income for the rest of her life.
JM: For the rest of her life.
LH: So that’s how we got control of the farm, sort of thing.
JM: Right, yeah.
LH: And then we converted to sugar.
JM: And then you converted to sugar, yeah. And so did all three of you convert to sugar or -
LH: Yeah, well I was the first one but the others followed on.
JM: Oh okay. And so, so then you each had your own part of the old farm?
LH: Yes, yes.
JM: So who ended up with the house?
LH: There were three cottages on the farm.
JM: Right.
LH: But when I got married I, I built another house.
JM: Right, yeah.
LH: And luckily I got the third of the farm with that house on it.
JM: Right.
LH: With the house and the cottage. Oh, me youngest brother got the, the bigger house, because it was thirty-six squared, that’s pretty big.
JM: And when did you get married?
LH: 1952.
JM: Was it a local girl I take it?
LH: Yes, well the family didn’t sort of approve, we were known as the wild Hibbard’s [laughs], but I started to pick her up once [laughs] one, to take her out one night [laughs], as I walked up the side of her house, I heard her father say, ‘Here comes the yokel’ [laughs]. Anyway, she must have known I had nothing because I had the arse out of me pants and she worked in the bank so it must have, so it wasn’t money she married me for [laughs]. Blimey, they were the days.
JM: But you made a go of it and you –
LH: But that’s what I say, these fellas who were supposed to have married bliss, I don’t know. This fella reckoned I, I should have been, should have been treated for it right back then, but I, I had to pay, you had to earn a living then, and I think that, you know, one thing that worried me in Vietnam they gave them a listen now. When you go for your interview, these are the questions that are being asked and here’s the answers you’re given, that’s why I’ve got a mate getting nine hundred bucks a week and he’s no thicker than you or me. So there’s a lot of fellas playing the system, I mean, not right, but anyway.
JM: So you married in ’52 and then you had at least one son?
LH: Yeah, I had five kids.
JM: Five kids.
LH: A son, three daughters, and a son.
JM: Right. So did they stay on the farm or did they go off and do other things?
LH: No, they all, oh one want to stay on the farm but for a reason, oddly I had to, well I figured that the way sugar was going that it was going to be in trouble, so I sold out.
JM: Right.
LH: While there was a quid in it.
JM: Yeah.
LH: Mmm. I helped in Meadow Farm and I was a partner in it and that, and when I did that he, he sold his too.
JM: Mmm.
LH: But the only, he only went in it [unclear] two hundred thousand, hundred and fifty thousand, he ended up getting eight or nine hundred thousand for it when he sold it.
JM: That’s all right.
LH: He and his wife, he started playing silly buggers and they split up. But he’s got a good job now in tourism, always been able to walk out of one job into another and another sort of thing.
JM: Into another.
LH: And there always good jobs.
JM: That’s good. And where, when you got out of the farm, where did you go then, what did you do?
LH: Oh no I didn’t retire from the farm until I was seventy-six.
JM: Yes, yes.
LH: Yes, then I came straight here.
JM: Oh, okay, right, that’s when you sold out.
LH: Yeah, yeah. But by then I had twelve flats in Murwillumbah, and I kept the farmhouse, which was a mistake as it turned out, but anyway, I left that to the daughter. When I sold out, it was worth about seven hundred and fifty thousand but when [unclear] took off and all the people moved up to Murwillumbah, the traffic passed the door, reaped it’s value.
JM: Yes, yes.
LH: Could have used it, I went on the stock market and did all right.
JM: Mmm, well that’s quite, quite a –
LH: I don’t know if it helps you.
JM: Well the point is Lindsay, when we discussed, when we were setting all this up, is that, you know there’s just not recognition given to the Bomber Command people in the past and this is just a very belated way of making sure that some of recollections, true recollections of those veterans is recorded for posterity and that’s what it’s all about.
LH: Oh yes.
JM: That’s why –
LH: I really think they could have given ‘em more recognition with a campaign, a proper campaign medal [telephone ringing]. It was for putting solar panels on the roof and I tell you what, you send away to one, one charity –
JM: And you have a hundred back.
LH: Hah [unclear].
JM: Yeah that’s right.
LHL: Anyway.
JM: No, well I think we are probably just about wrapping up, we’ve probably covered most of the things that we needed to cover, the, yeah, I don’t, your crew obviously were a tight group –
LH: They weren’t one’s for partying but some crews had a lot of time in the pub and this that and the other, but they weren’t like that, no, no.
JM: And none of them, they were all good solid citizens.
LH: Solid citizens, yes.
JM: And none of them had any real superstitions or carried good luck charms or anything like that?
LH: Not that I know of no, no.
JM: But even if they did it was obviously worthwhile because of the fact that you all got back safely right through.
LH: Very steady, very steady lot, yes. I always had it stuck in my mind, it was something me dad told me from the First World War, ‘don’t ever volunteer for anything, don’t ever’. So when we were picking a crew, I didn’t go looking for a crew, I just stood back and let everybody sort themselves out, and the last crew looking for what got me [laughs], which wasn’t a very good bargain but that was my outlook on.
JM: Yes, well that’s right, clearly you, it worked, because, I mean, you clearly had a good pilot because he managed to get you home safely after all those ops after some pretty hairy experiences, so that’s even more important so yeah.
LH: Had a good navigator, that was very important.
JM: Indeed, indeed. So at this point, we’ll wrap up the formal part of it and as I say again, thank you very much for your time, it’s been marvellous talking to you.
LH: I don’t know why they waited until most of them are dead because –
JM: Unfortunately, but I mean it’s better than nothing.
LH: [laughs] Not much.
JM: Thanks Lindsay.
JM: Yeah, we’re just talking to Lindsay Hibbard again on 23rd February, continuing on from our interview on 21st February 2017, we are just talking in a bit more detail about a couple of the ops he did. 16th January, that’s in ’44, yeah. January ’44?
LH: October ’44.
JM: No I want the 16th January ‘44
LH: ‘45
JM: ’45, sorry my apologies, yes ’45, January ’45. Okay, 16th January ’45.
LH: Sixteenth, Lancaster –
JM: Ops, Bruge –
LH: Czechoslovakia ops –
JM: [unclear] yes.
LH: Oil refineries.
JM: Yes.
LH: Twelve five hundred standards and one four thirty standards.
JM: And you were on three engines?
LH: Bombed on three engines.
JM: So what was the story there, were you, how did you lose the, the other engine?
LH: It was a runaway, what you call a runaway prop, it just sort of disengages from the motor and got up to I think, to six thousand revs and if they hadn’t of controlled it and brought it back it would have caused a fire, but it was a malfunction of the propeller so they shut that motor down.
JM: Shut that motor down and then just continued on and completed?
LH: We bombed on three engines.
JM: Yeah.
LH: We jettisoned six five hundred pound bombs to, when we lost the prop so that at twelve thousand feet, yeah.
JM: Right okay.
LH: And he got a DFC for that.
JM: Sorry?
LH: He got a DFC –
JM: The pilot?
LH: The pilot.
JM: Yeah okay, the pilot got a DFC for that, yes that’s understandable, to manage all of that, and to have complete, to have successfully complete the bombing raid as well and then get back home again, that’s pretty good to say the least. So that time you were DXT so –
LH: Yes.
JM: Yes okay. So all right, and then on the 7th February ’45, you were on –
LH: Lancaster ops for Pölitz.
JM: Pölitz, yes. Four direct flak hits here.
LH: Yes, yes. Is that the one that we crashed on?
JM: No, not that one.
LH: Well we were [unclear].
JM: So what sort of damage was that, how much damage?
LH: Oh god, it blew the tail off and there was bloody hundreds and hundreds of holes, you know, the H2SN was blown off, it made a bit of a mess of the plane but nobody got hit.
JM: Nobody got hit. And what, did you have any extra –
LH: Oh yeah we rolled –
JM: Roles to do?
LH: Knocked the intercom out, and I don’t know, I didn’t know what I was doing but I fixed it anyway, ‘cos that’s what they gave me the DFC for, it went out twice.
JM: Mmm, right. What did you have to do to fix it?
LH: I had to find, find a set of wires in amongst the bloody carnage and mess and connect them up again.
JM: And at this stage there’s still flak coming around hitting left, right and centre was there so that you were –
LH: From the first here, yeah, and then there was some later on, it had it on the –
JM: Citation?
LH: Citation.
JM: Let’s pause a minute while you perhaps get the citation out. Right, Lindsay’s just got the citation here for me and it reads, ‘Warrant Officer Hibbard has throughout a large number of operational sorties proved to be a wireless operator of great skill and ability. On one occasion in February 1945, his aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire shortly before reaching the target area, this resulted in the severing of a number of cables causing the failure of the intercommunication system. Warrant Officer Hibbard quickly traced the seat of the damage and effected repairs. Whilst over the target, the aircraft was again hit by anti-aircraft fire and the intercommunication system rendered unserviceable, but with cool confidence, this warrant officer once more effected repairs. Warrant Officer Hibbard has, at all times, displayed outstanding courage, determination and initiative’.
LH: Yeah.
JM: Terrific.
LH: I didn’t think I was that good.
JM: Well I think there’s a fair degree of modesty here Lindsay, which comes back to, I suspect, to some of your country upbringing –
LH: I think they built it up a bit I didn’t think it was that good.
JM: Well the fact that you got it all working again and you had to do it not once but twice, it just means that the amount of flak you guys were copping and, as you say, got so much blown off.
LH: We landed at Manston –
JM: Manston, yeah. And did the pilot get a bar or anything as well?
LH: Not a bar, he just got a DFC.
JM: Yes, but I thought you said he had already been given the DFC for in the January.
LH: No, no, no, oh no, he didn’t get a bar for that.
JM: No, oh okay. And did any of the, none of the other crew members got any recognition out of that flight?
LH: No, no.
JM: Because you were having to try and do things in amongst a whole pile of ricocheting and everything else. Yes, okay. So that was probably, I think that was the last, that was the second, so that was the last time you flew DXU.
LH: Yes but that was the squadron commander’s plane actually I think.
JM: Right.
LH: It wasn’t –
JM: Right, oh okay. So he obviously must have been either in a different plane or not on that raid?
LH: No, he wasn’t on that raid.
JM: Oh okay, okay well that’s, that’s basically the couple of things that I had picked up on just going back through my notes and that’s, that’s good. And then is there anything else that you had thought of that we didn’t cover when we chatting a couple of days ago.
LH: No, haven’t.
JM: So you were flying in a few different planes over the course of your tour, with as you say a fair proportion was in “Sugar” but you certainly had a few more –
LH: Oh yes, because they had to maintain them.
JM: Planes, yes, that’s right, so that you were rotated round a little bit while they maintained it, and that, that new one, the one you were on over at Pölitz, that would have needed a fair bit of maintenance to get, before that could go back up in the air again?
LH: It was Pölitz that Teddy got shot down wasn’t it?
JM: No I –
LH: MacDonald, Teddy MacDonald.
JM: Yeah, yeah, but it was –
LH: It was either Pölitz or Rositz -
JM: I think it might have been Rositz, but because that was in January so –
LH: No February was Rositz.
JM: Yes, but he was.
LH: I said it was either Pölitz or Rositz that it was.
JM: Well he, I haven’t got my notes in front of me and I just, but I know it was January that he went down. And he was headed towards Leipzig from memory, I think Leipzig sticks in my brain as to where he was headed towards but he didn’t actually get there.
LH: Must have been the oil refineries that time. Oh well anyway.
JM: Yeah, so that’s it, yes, thank you very much, thank you again, and I shall stop the recording now.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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AHibbardL170221
Title
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Interview with Lindsay Hibbard
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:34:20 audio recording
Creator
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Jean Macartney
Date
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2017-02-21
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Australia
Great Britain
California--San Francisco
United States
Panama--Panama Canal
California
Panama
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Jackie Simpson
Vivienne Tincombe
Description
An account of the resource
Lindsay was born in Murwillumbah, Australia, before moving to Brisbane in 1927. Lindsay tells of growing up on the family, and how his eldest brother was killed in Malaya on the Thai Railway, and his older brother returning home to run the farm after his father passed away. Lindsay joined the Royal Air Force in 1942. He did his initial training at Kingaroy, before moving on to training as a wireless operator at Maryborough, completing that in July 1943. He tells of his experiences on the gunnery course at Evanshead, where his ‘claim to fame’ is that he got 30% of his hits off target. After going to San Francisco and New York, Lindsay tells of his trip across to Liverpool. Lindsay flew in Battles, and then went on Ansons, Wellingtons and Stirlings. He flew 32 operations all with the same crew, including Nuremberg, Dusseldorf, the Dortmund-Ems Canal, to the oil refineries at various locations, and operations to bomb the U-Boat pens in Norway. He was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross in 1945, after his aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire on the way to the target at the Politz oil refineries in February 1945. The anti-aircraft fire severed a number of cables causing a failure of the intercommunication system, and Lindsay managed to make repairs. The pilot also received the same award for bringing the aircraft down safely. Lindsay jokes that his uniform was ruined as they could not get the oil out of it. After the war, Lindsay tells how he returned to the farm, his encounter with a lady who he used to date in Edinburgh, and his diagnosis of post-traumatic stress.
57 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
Battle
bombing of Nuremberg (30 / 31 March 1944)
Distinguished Flying Cross
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster Finishing School
Operational Training Unit
RAF East Kirkby
RAF Silverstone
RAF Syerston
RAF Winthorpe
Stirling
training
Wellington
wireless operator
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/309/3466/AMunroL150604.2.mp3
e4a1c8a20e21add227fdb978e901cb8a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Munro, Les
Les Munro
John Leslie Munro
John L Munro
John Munro
J L Munro
J Munro
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Squadron Leader John Leslie Munro CNZM DSO QSO DFC (1919-2015, Royal New Zealand Air Force). Les Munro trained as a pilot in New Zealand and Canada and completed 58 operations with 97 Squadron and 617 Squadron from RAF Woodhall Spa and RAF Scampton. His aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire on the way bomb the Sorpe dam and he returned to RAF Scampton still carrying his bouncing bomb.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Munro, L
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
NB: Right. It’s quarter to five on the 4th of June 2015. I’m in the house of John Leslie Munro in Tauranga, New Zealand. Excuse the pronunciation. Tauranga in New Zealand. Um I wondered if we could start off by just finding out a bit about your life before you went into Bomber Command.
JLM: Yes. I was born to — my father worked on a sheep station at Dorman which was sixteen miles from the town of Gisborne. I was born and brought up and spent all my younger life in the Gisborne district. After I only spent two years at high school because of the slump. We were being brought up in the slump. My parents could not afford to keep me at high school any longer so immediately on leaving high school in 1936 I went to work on a small dairy farm on which I worked for about eighteen months and from there I went to a larger farm which was a mixed sheep, you know, sheep cropping, mainly maize and dairying. And after about two years in that — working on that farm the owner left to work for a rural department and left me in charge. I was in. When war broke out I considered that I should actually do my part in, in supporting the king and country and democracy and freedom and democracy and that sort of thing. Ah and I um postponed enlisting because my younger brother had put his age forward and he actually spent his twenty first birthday overseas and that upset my parents quite considerably and I respected their feelings about the matter and postponed my enlistment until I passed the age of twenty one. So, as soon I was twenty one I enlisted in the air force. And because I’d only did two years course at high school of which neither was in– covered mathematics they said I wasn’t suitable to be a pilot but I could be a gunner or a wireless operator if that was suitable to me. But I didn’t, I didn’t agree with that and they said, well I said I wanted to be a pilot and the air force said, well, alright you can do a correspondence course in mathematics and trigonometry [struggles over word] and if, if you pass that we’ll accept you as a pilot and that’s what happened. I did the correspondence course and it was very very hard to do trigonometry and that I just couldn’t follow for a while. And eventually I passed and I went into the air force at Levin which was a brown place, just a parade ground sort of experience. And on the 5th of July 1941.
NB: Right.
JLM: Yeah.
NB: What made you go for the air force?
JLM: Well I’m often, I’m often asked that and I think, I think the idea that I wanted to be a pilot. I would be in charge of my own destiny. I think that was what drove me to that. The other thing is that the second farm I worked on, the homestead was up on a hill and the commercial air, commercial planes used to fly past. I’d watch them flying and I think I got a feel for flying, for flying planes, myself. Yeah.
NB: So, once, once you enlisted having got your qualification what was the process they put you through for training?
JLM: Well as I said earlier I entered the air force on the 15th of July 1941 at a place called Levin. I only had about six weeks there and I was transferred to New Plymouth to number 2 EFTS, that’s the Elementary Flying Training School on Tiger Moths.
NB: Right.
JLM: Spent um, flew there. I got my uh went solo after about six and a half hours’ training which apparently was recognised as being fairly good in those days. Ten hours was recognised as the normal period in which to gain your pilot’s licence to be able to go solo. And I gained my pilot’s licence, well, not licence but go solo and after six and half hours and [pause] — I’m not sure, I haven’t got the dates with me. After about ten weeks I think it would have been we were sent on leave and I left New Zealand on the 20th of October 1941 for Canada.
NB: Right.
JLM: I was sent to Canada. Number 4 SFTS [Service Flying Training School] where I trained on twin engine Cessna Cranes.
NB: Right.
JLM: Just as a point of interest is at that stage the Americans weren’t in the war and we travelled to Canada on the SS Mariposa which was a cruise ship and we were, we actually were transferred as, or transported, as civilians.
NB: Right.
JLM: We had two to a cabin with a server. A steward waiting on us in the cabins and the same on the, on the dining room tables. We were waited on by stewards and we were treated as civilians all the way over which was a quite significant in the sense that if we had been on a troop ship we’d have been about — I don’t know how many to a cabin and all that sort of thing. Yeah.
NB: And did that take you to —
JLM: And went to we arrived at San Diego and berthed there for a couple of days and then we sailed again through San Francisco. We debarked — disembarked at San Francisco.
NB: Okay. And then how, how did you get into Canada from there?
JLM: Hmmn?
NB: You went up to Canada from there?
JLM: Yeah. I, we caught the train at [pause] what’s the name of it? No gone. Caught the train at, there’s another town is there? Across the estuary or somewhere from the town of San Francisco, the city of San Francisco up to Vancouver.
NB: Right.
JLM: And then over. Took the train from Vancouver. Again I think we had to change to Canadian Railways of course and went over the Rockies to Saskatoon.
NB: Oh right.
JLM: To the [pause] yeah, which is in Saskatchewan.
NB: Saskatchewan. And how long was your training period? And was there a difference in climate or —
JLM: Ah yes. At that stage we were in the middle of winter and the ground, the ground was covered in snow. The only evidence you knew about habitation was the plumes of smoke. Smoke coming up from the chimneys of the houses and that sort of thing. But yes, we were, I’d never seen, well, no, I’d never seen snow in my life I don’t think and — but the ground was covered in snow although there was no problem. We were still able to fly there. The runways were still capable of being flown from. And we’ve carried on there until the 28th of February of ’42 when we were granted our wings and appointed officers. Pilot officers to start with and we, you know we awaited our — were awarded our wings. If that’s the right way of putting it.
NB: Yeah. So did you return to or come from there straight to the UK or did you have —
JLM: We had a fortnight’s leave.
NB: Right.
JLM: And three of us, I think, that used to kind of stick together quite a bit went down to New York and then transferred back up and took to Halifax where we caught the HMS, well not HMS, it was a civilian er Cape Town, the Cape Town Castle.
NB: Right.
JLM: And went to Liverpool. From Liverpool, by train, to Bournemouth where we filled in time for about, er we used to call it a holding pattern. We were there for, I think, about two months and then were posted up to Shawbury in Shropshire and did a refresher course on Airspeed Oxford. Spent a lot of time flying on Link Trainers and then we went from there to er Luff- North Luffenham the operational, the OTU.
NB: OTU. Yeah.
JLM: OTU. Operational Training Unit. There for about um about you see I’ve got these notes [unclear], I haven’t got my logbooks which I can refer to. Um, we were there for [pause] maybe, somewhere about three months I think and we were posted to Heavy Conversion Unit at Wigsley. We were flying Wellingtons at North Luffenham and that was where I had my first brush with death, I suppose, in a way.
NB: What happened?
JLM: It was in the days when they were trying to build up numbers, the bomber numbers. At the time they were experimenting with the thousand bomber raids. I don’t know about experimenting but endeavour to get a thousand bombers in the air at once. And we were on two of the, not necessarily the Bomber Command, the thousand bomber raids but trying to build up numbers to seven or eight or nine hundred bombers in the air. They employed or co-opted a lot of Operational Training Unit planes and in this case, somewhere around about September ’42 we were co-opted to go on a raid to one of the cities in Germany. And then about two nights later and with that, went on, we completed that without incident and about two nights later we were scheduled to attack another city and as is normal custom we were allocated planes which we had to take up for night flying exercises. We had a night flying test and on the — during that test I was most unhappy about the power of the, or the ability of the plane to take up a load of bombs. And I complained about this when I came down. I said, I said, I didn’t think this plane was capable of carrying two thousand pounds of bombs. And anyway, they noted my objection and that night when we took off after flying up the runway at full throttle I couldn’t get the plane to get airborne. I got it airborne — about twenty or thirty feet above the ground. I couldn’t get it any higher. Except at, even at full throttle. So, eventually had to go past the end of the runway and the bomb aimer said, ‘Trees ahead.’ And we just clipped those and we carried on and then I was still trying to get the plane to climb and then all of a sudden, well, not all of a sudden, after leaving the trees behind that I’d clipped I just, the plane just settled down on the ground in the middle of a paddock. There were buildings and that ahead of us and the trees behind and settled down quite smoothly and without any real damage. Well, without it assimilating a crash position and it caught fire and we, the crew and I, the crew all got out and the plane burned out with the bombs exploding at intervals. So that was an indication to me that maybe I might be lucky. And as it turned out that was the first evidence to me, first indication to me that maybe Lady Luck was going to be on my shoulder and so it happened right through the war. I had several instances where I felt that I was quite lucky to, to survive.
NB: Is there a feeling, or was there a feeling among the crews that you banked luck? Or —
JLM: I don’t know that we ever really discussed the situation as to whether we were lucky or [pause]. Don’t — I don’t remember as a crew. My crew, sort of, were such that they never sort of queried, never questioned my ability as a, as a pilot right through the war. There were occasions when they could have said, ‘Well, you know we were lucky there’ or, ‘What did you do that for?’ Or something like this.
NB: So, after you left HCU where were you?
JLM: I went to Heavy Conversion Unit at Wigsley.
NB: Right.
JLM: I was only there for — what? A couple of months and then I was posted to 97 Squadron at Woodhall Spa. On the 12th of December 1942.
NB: Flying?
JLM: Lancasters.
NB: On Lancs.
JLM: Oh, firstly at Luffenham, at Heavy Conversion Unit I flew the Manchesters for seven and a half hours before switching to Lancasters.
NB: Right.
JLM: And of course, when I was posted to 97 Squadron that was all Lancasters. So, I arrived on an operational squadron after about, what? Eighteen months training, to fulfil the reason why I enlisted in the first place.
NB: In the first place. And had you already crewed up by then?
JLM: Oh yeah. Well when we were at the Operational Training Unit we got our navigator [pause] navigator, bomb aimer, wireless operator. It wasn’t until we got to Heavy Conversion Unit we picked up our flight engineer and the two gunners.
NB: Was there a mix of nationalities in the crew?
JLM: Yes. Well no. Only two. There was — I had two Canadians. My navigator was a Scotsman. The two Canadians were wireless operator and rear gunner and a flight engineer was an Englishmen. The flight engineer and the mid-upper gunner was English. Both English.
NB: So you were the only New Zealander on board.
JLM: I was New Zealand. Yeah.
NB: Is that why you didn’t go towards 75 Squadron?
JLM: Yeah. No, you didn’t have much option. When you finished your Heavy Conversion Unit, you were just posted.
NB: Right.
JLM: Posted here, there or anywhere. I don’t — they never called for volunteers. They never called for, like they did initially at New Plymouth. They called for your preferences. ‘Do you want to be fighter boy or do you want to be a bomber pilot and because, perhaps due to my conservative nature I think I opted to be a bomber pilot. So, yeah, so when we didn’t get, we didn’t get a full crew until we arrived at Heavy Conversion Unit.
NB: Okay. So, the op that you did when you were at OTU did that count for your tour?
JLM: No, no.
NB: So, you then started your full tour when you got to —
JLM: Yeah. When we got to Woodhall Spa on 97 Squadron we started. That was it, another funny experience in a way. It was the first and only time I felt fear. That was my very first operation which was a mining trip to the mouth of Garonne River down on the coast of France. And when we arrived at the dropping area I was thinking while waiting to get confirmation that we were, what heading I was to fly on and that sort of thing and the coast was dark and no lights to be seen on the coast was ominous and for some reason I was halfway expecting to be shot at and that sort of thing. I’ve never felt, never been able to explain the reason for that feeling fear and that’s the one and only time I ever felt fear. The rest, the other times — there was no other planes around, there were no flak anywhere. Just looked dark and ominous for some reason. And we, I was always too busy trying to get, making sure that the plane was being flown away from danger and that sort of thing in other times or just trusting to luck. I think, probably night flying over Berlin on an operation it was going to be, purely be luck to make sure that you didn’t weren’t hit by flak or caught by flak or fighters on the way in or out.
NB: So, I understand the lack of fear, was that the whole crew? You were all so busy that that was — the fear just didn’t surface while you were working, if you like.
JLM: My sense of fear?
NB: Well, you were saying that you didn’t feel fear normally because you —
JLM: Yeah.
NB: You were so busy. Did that cover the whole crew? Everyone was in that position.
JLM: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Although I don’t — I’m not sure. I’ve never ever — the funny thing I’ve never ever talked to my crew, asked them that, you know, were they scared or anything like that. And straight on — about one of the trips on Berlin. It was a pretty, pretty big raid and we were just sort of getting to the woods on the way out of Berlin and our wireless operator, Percy Pigeon, the Canadian, decided he’d come out to have a look from the cockpit and he looked out and the city was just a mass of fires and flak and searchlights. And to illustrate what I was leading up he looked out behind us at we had come through and he said, ‘Jesus Christ, have we come through that?’ I always say, ‘Well, that’s an illustration of what you don’t know, what you can’t see you don’t worry about.’ Yeah.
NB: So are there any other key points during those operations that stand out for you?
JLM: Not — well on one of the trips on 97, I think, coming back and returning to base. I think we drifted off course a little bit from it. I think it was on a trip to Berlin and coming back and I think we drifted a little bit close to either Hamburg or Duisburg. No, it can’t be Duisburg. It was one of the station, towns there and we were suddenly surrounded by flak and some fragments hit the plane and I got a little bit lodged in my flying boot but I put the nose down and started weaving, increasing speed until we got out of the troubled area.
NB: Now, obviously you were part of the dams raid. How did — when did you move it onto?
JLM: I, well we spent, I think I did twenty one trips on 97 Squadron when I read a circular letter on the notice board from group headquarters calling for volunteers from to form — from people that had, I think they specified that had — just nearing the end of their first tour which I was or just due to commence a second. Calling for volunteers to form a new squadron, to form a new squadron to attack a special target. There wasn’t, a special, I don’t think it just said the target was just something special without any evidence of what it was going to be. So, I discussed with my crew and all but my rear gunner said yes, we would. I was — they agreed that I should volunteer, which I did and posted almost the next day to Scampton where the other crews that had volunteered and, in some cases, had been picked by Gibson too because he knew them. We formed from around about the 23rd. I think I arrived on Scampton on the 23rd of May [means March] whereas some didn’t arrive until the 28th and that sort of thing. It was over a period of two or three days. The squadron was formed. Subsequently called 617.
NB: And your whole crew went with you. Even the rear gunner?
JLM: No. No. He didn’t come.
NB: He opted out.
JLM: No. He didn’t come. So, I got a new — and prior to that period when I of volunteering I [unclear] early stages of when I was on 97 my bomb aimer, when we were up at twenty thousand feet, around that, he started, he suffered from some sort of, either oxygen sickness or something like that and this happened about two, the first couple of high level bombing operations I was on. So, he was taken off operations. So, I had a succession of, of, of bomb aimers coming in to act as my bomb aimer and one situation — one bloke was a naval lieutenant who was studying bombing methods by the RAF. Yeah. I was actually sorry to leave him in a way. So, because I didn’t have a permanent bomb aimer when we volunteered I got, I got a new bomb aimer when I arrived on 617 and a new rear gunner which was Harvey Weeks, a Canadian, and the bomb aimer was Jimmy Clay.
NB: And I’m interested in how the crews — because the rest of you had been together quite a while. Bringing in new people, did that have an effect on the crew?
JLM: No. I don’t think so.
NB: No.
JLM: No.
NB: No. They fitted in well.
JLM: Yes. Yeah.
NB: So, tell me more about the, sort of, 617 preparations.
JLM: Well, we arrived there and before there was [pause] although Gibson knew what the target was I don’t think neither of the flight commanders were aware of it until quite later on. But Gibson [unclear], knowing what the target was and knowing what the range that the specifications for the flying — type of flying, the airspeed and all that sort of thing that was going to be employed or had been developed by Barnes Wallis. He knew and he decided and he decided on advice, what type of training would be required for the type of flight we were going to undertake and what the type of attack was going to be for the release of the Upkeep. And consequently we undertook, almost straight away, I think the first point, we specified and were required to undertake low level flying. Firstly, mainly in daylight and then secondly in simulated night moonlight conditions and then lastly at night. Moonlight, full moonlight. All the routes then took up out to the west of England, up through the lakes country, up to almost the border of Scotland out on to the sea and almost returned down. Turned down the North Sea and back to base. And it was on one of those training flights I had another close call in that we were travelling, it was rather a hazy, moonlight night and all of a sudden in the haze ahead of me I there appeared to be a convoy with balloons flying, attached to the ships by cable. And I yelled out to, we were flying at a level that would have been — would have gone through just above the decks of the ships. And I yelled out to the wireless operator to fire the colours of the day which he did do and in the light of the flares — the colours of the day were just coloured flares that explode. There was balloons all ahead of me attached to the ships by cable and I immediately pulled back on the stick and by the grace of God managed to get through all these without collecting any of the cables. And that was the closest, I believe, was a close call too that I overcome just by pure, pure luck.
NB: Yeah. Absolutely. If you hadn’t seen the — yeah.
JLM: So that was — our training over the next six weeks was all low flying and emphasis on from the pilot’s point of view, was on being able to assess how soon to gain height to clear obstacles that were on the route ahead. And this is where, to start with some of the pilots had a bit of, were a bit inclined to leave it too late to gain height and clipped the tops of trees and a few instances of that happened and they were returning to base with twigs and leaves and that sort of thing in the air intakes.
NB: Did you have any idea what might be ahead?
JLM: No. Not in the slightest. No. Some, there was a lot of conjecture about what the target would be and the closest anyone got to maybe what was involved was the attack on the capital ships like the Tirpitz and de Grasse. Well it wasn’t the de Grasse but attack on capital ships that sort of thing. That was the most common thought, and of course it wasn’t.
NB: So when did you find out the difference?
JLM: The afternoon of the day of the night, the day of the night of the operation when we entered the briefing room. The two flight commanders and the bombing leader and the [pause] who was the other one? Bombing. Navigator. Oh, the navigation leader. They were advised about the day about the day before briefing day of what the target was. And I’m in no doubt that they went into detail at that stage of what was required of our, flying the route in and the actual attack and that sort of thing. The only, only indication of perhaps what might be involved was about the three days. The 11th, 12th and 13th of May with these, the Upkeeps had been arriving on the station and twelve planes took part in trials, or test trials with the Upkeeps down on the Firth of Thames [Reculver] and six out of those twelve aircraft through either flying too high or like here flying too low were damaged by splash from, yeah splash from the bomb hitting the water, hitting the tail of the aircraft. Six of them. Five of them were repaired in time for the operation and one was so badly damaged that it couldn’t be repaired in time. The one that was hit by Henry Maudslay. So he was given another plane. We only had one or two spare planes and he was — we used all the planes except that one that was damaged.
NB: So how many planes went out that night?
JLM: Nineteen went over and only eleven came back.
NB: So, tell me more about the briefing and —
JLM: Well, we when we were called for briefing at a certain time we would be there at four o’clock or some time in the afternoon. And the first thing they did was look at the big boards and all the tapes from base to the target and back again and the tapes that all showed us leading to the dams. That didn’t worry, I don’t think that worried the crews unduly. What did worry them was the fact that the route from the, as we hit the Ruhr Valley to the targets we were in the Ruhr, the most heavily defended area in Germany was the Ruhr Valley and I think that worried the crews more than anything.
NB: Rightly so.
JLM: Hmmn?
NB: Rightly so. So, I mean how long was the briefing and how detailed was it and —?
JLM: I don’t really, I can’t, I can’t remember how long the briefing was. I think it was probably about an hour and a half and we went back and had our pre-op meal and we took off at 19 — 7.28. It was in the — what was that? May. Be coming up to Spring.
NB: Spring. Yeah.
JLM: Yeah. So, there was, it wasn’t — no, from memory now, yes. One plane took off ahead of me and you could see him, so yes you could see them so it was starting to get dusk and then it got dark and you were relying on the moon from a little after leaving the coast at Skegness. Ah yeah.
NB: And what was the sort of progression for you that night?
JLM: Hmmn?
NB: What was the progression for you that night?
JLM: Well, I — our, we had been selected, my crew and all the group of four that had been selected to fly to attack the Sorpe dam and we — our route was almost due east of Lincoln. Crossing the coast somewhere around Skegness there and flying due east again until we hit a point north of, north of the island of — [pause] — yeah. Yeah it would be north of the island of Zeeland, just past the other one there. What was the name? Texel. Yeah. Texel, yeah. And I was, when we turned and then we had to turn right so the navigator said, ‘Right, turn right and due course such and such’ and after we’d been flying for a quarter of an hour or ten minutes. Less than that. Only a few minutes. Ten minutes probably. I thought I could see the breakers ahead and the sand dunes behind it and I gained height to clear the sand dunes and started, had covered the crest of the sand dunes and was losing power, losing height rather, to get down to the water on the other side which was the Wadden Sea. And I saw, suddenly saw a line of flak at come towards me and felt a small thump and lost all communication and electricity as a result of being hit by a twenty shell, twenty mil shell and a hole blown in the side of the aircraft. And that, was the result of that that I couldn’t communicate with the crew so I asked my wireless operator, thinking that he would be the best one to look at any question of restoring the inter-communication intercom and also to check on the rear gunner to see that he was alright. And I just circled around the Wadden Sea on the red while he did that until he came back and said no it was not possible to restore communication. And my thinking then was that okay we need that communication for the navigator and the pilot to be able to converse and for the pilot to accept the directions of the navigator when to turn on the route. And secondly, if by any chance we were able to get to the target area it was imperative that the bomb aimer and the pilot were able to communicate with each other. So, I made the, it wasn’t a difficult decision in many ways because there was very little alternative. I think it was very dangerous for the, for me as captain to carry on. And made the decision to return to base so had the situation of the same gun emplacement firing at us as we crossed the sand dunes on the way out again. Yeah. I thought that was rather significant. But fortunately, they didn’t hit us. There was a lot of conjecture later on, John Sweetman and one or two others. Well, John Sweetman, I think he believed, in his investigation, determined that I was hit by a flak ship but I say my navigator not my navigator, Jimmy Clay, my bomber aimer, was inclined to agree. Whereas my mid-upper gunner who had a bird’s eye view of where the flak came from believed it was a land-based gun emplacement that hit me and that’s what I think happened. So a little bit of a difference of opinion between John, John Sweetman and me on that one.
NB: The net result was the same.
JLM: Hmmn?
NB: The net result was the same.
JLM: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so that was my experience on the dams raid. Yeah. And when I got back we returned to the mess after being debriefed and we got periodic reports that such and such had been shot down and such and such had been shot down. And it was after debriefing when those survivors had come back and returned to the mess — started celebrating and I felt embarrassed that I’d been present during the celebrations because I hadn’t achieved what they had done and I felt, you know, rather embarrassed about that.
NB: I can understand but [pause] so how many ops did you complete in total during your time with Bomber Command?
JLM: Altogether — fifty eight.
NB: And you chose to go for a second tour.
JLM: I did another thirty six, thirty six. I think it was thirty six operations on 617 before the AOC for 5 Group took us, took Leonard Cheshire and myself and Joe McCarthy and Dave Shannon off operations and wouldn’t brook any argument about that.
NB: And then —
JLM: He said he wanted me to take over 1690 Bomber Defence Training Flight. Which I did. Spent a year on that.
NB: Right.
JLM: Flying Hurricanes.
NB: Enjoy it?
JLM: Yeah. I did enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah.
NB: So, I mean looking, looking back were there any real highlights and lowlights of your time in the Command?
JLM: I don’t know about, well, lowlight. The only lowlight really was, well lowlights was [pause] well I don’t know that’s a hard one to answer. Every operation, to a large extent every operation had the same sense, same degree of danger. You were likely to be attacked by a night fighter, particularly on the main, the main operations on 97 when you were on attacking the German towns. Yes, there was always the danger of night fighters and then you also, combined with that was the danger of being hit by flak. And I had, you know the time I was surrounded by flak on my right foot panel and I suppose I was lucky to escape any — apart from little bits of shrapnel, bits lodging in my flying boot. Nothing, nothing really untoward there. I managed to escape from that situation and had one or two other. One, later on when 617 was engaged in the attacking single targets we were taking, at low level, an electricity transfer station, or transformer station in northern Italy which we were due to, which we were bombing with five hundred pounders and because of haze we had difficulty in identifying the target and I think I gradually crept a bit lower and lower and when the bombs went off a bit of shrapnel came and hit my bomb aimer right on the tip of his nose [with humour]. Yeah. So I suppose that was a bit quiet, a bit close. But any highlights. Oh, highlights really was when a raid was successful. You felt a sense of pride. Particularly when we were, I was marking at low level in the early stages of 617 carrying out special operations, single, on single targets. Not like the main bomber force, blanket bombing. When we were, on one or two occasions when we marked the target with the coloured bombs dropped right on them, that was a sense of achievement, I think. Yeah.
NB: And how long did you stay in. And were you demobbed in ’45 or —
JLM: Yeah. I, as I said I spent twelve months on 1690 Bombing Defence Flight and that was where we were a small flight of fighter planes who were attacking drogues in daytime and night-time. Acting as enemy fighters attacking the bombers and the bomber’s pilots — they were training in evasive tactics with the, with the gunners having cameras in their, in their turrets and being able to check on how whether they would have shot us down if it had it been real.
NB: Right.
JLM: I enjoyed that. I did about two hundred and something hours on Hurricanes. I didn’t enjoy night flying because I always worried that okay, acting as a fighter at night time, would I pull out in time without colliding with a Lancaster? That was one fear I had but, I mean I persevered in that type of thing and I got — yep. I thought it was nice to be able to fly in a single engine fighter after a four engine Lancaster. Yeah.
NB: A bit more nimble.
JLM: Hmmn?
NB: A bit more nimble.
JLM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
NB: So —
JLM: I must say another sense of achievement I think was in Operation Taxable was when the spoof operation on D-day. I felt a sense of achievement to have participated in that although it was — it wasn’t a dangerous mission. It wasn’t. But though the one, there was, that took part in several phases to that, there were other planes operating. And I think 218 Squadron lost four planes, I think. They were further up. Attacking, you know. And we were down by a [unclear] Calais and we flew Leonard, I was privileged to have Leonard Cheshire fly as my second pilot on that operation. We had, you know, we had we flew individual, each crew flew for two, each crew but divided in to one hour just flying these oblong series dropping the — what’s the —?
NB: Radar?
JLM: Radar. Yeah. Dropping aluminium. No, it’s not radar.
NB: Oh, the aluminium foil.
JLM: Yeah.
NB: Yeah.
JLM: I think there was a common name for it [Window].
NB: Yeah.
JLM: No. never mind. Yeah.
NB: I’m in a similar state. So, when you came out did you continue to fly? When you left the RAF.
JLM: Well only to the extent that in Gisborne, I returned home to Gisborne and it was not long afterwards they decided they’d form an aero club and I was part of that. Or part of that decision and I actually lent the club fifty pound, I think it was, as part of, to finance a Tiger Moth and I did five hours on the Tiger Moth and before my — I sort of got involved with a certain woman and I couldn’t get married and we couldn’t afford to get married and also fly too so I gave any thoughts of flying away.
NB: It’s those women again [laughs]. That’s brilliant. Have you got any particular thoughts that you want recording as to how Bomber Command should be remembered? How you’d like them to be remembered.
JLM: Well no, I was and still am very critical of the fact that it took the English peoples sixty seven years before there was a satisfactory memorial erected to remember or to recognise the contribution that fifty five thousand five hundred and seventy three people gave their lives. I think, and as, when it happened, I think that the resulting memorial was I did, did was was a significant reflection on those, the loss of those lives. I think it was what BB, what was his name that started it off and the three blokes, you probably know their names.
NB: Gibb.
JLM: The sculptor and the designer and that I think did a great job. If — if I would have a real difficulty in making any criticism of the memorial as a resulting memorial. I think it’s quite a good one. I think it’s quite a good one. And that led me to the medal saga.
NB: Yes.
JLM: Yeah. I think God you wouldn’t want to see this deteriorate for lack of money. And I, it wasn’t until I, with the boys and my daughter-in-law, visited the memorial in ’13 — what was I leading up to? And it wasn’t until then in company with Anna Marie Fairburn who was communications, one of the leading positions in the RAF Benevolent Fund. It wasn’t until then that I was aware, became aware that the RAF Benevolent Fund had been given the responsibility of the maintenance of that and I really, you know, I thought that was a hell of a big ask.
NB: Yeah.
JLM: And I think in a way, in a way I think that was unfair of the government.
NB: We think the same.
JLM: Yeah.
NB: Thank you for that. Thank you [pause]. Gosh, you must be exhausted. All that.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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AMunroL150604
Title
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Interview with Les Munro
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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00:52:53 audio recording
Creator
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Nicky Barr
Date
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2015-06-15
Description
An account of the resource
John Leslie Munro was born in the area of Gisborne, New Zealand. He only completed two years of secondary education because of the economic slump and in 1936 began work on a sheep ranch and then a mixed farm. On the outbreak of the Second World War, he was determined to train as a pilot. He had to complete a correspondence course first to improve his qualifications. He began his training at Number 2 Elementary Flying Training School, going solo after six and a half hours’ training. He completed his training in Canada. After time on Operational Training Units at RAF Shawbury and RAF North Luffenham, and the Heavy Conversion Unit at RAF Wigsley, he was posted to 97 Squadron at RAF Woodhall Spa. He volunteered and was accepted for the special squadron being assembled by Guy Gibson. With 617 Squadron, he embarked on further training that would lead to the Eder, Möhne and Sorpe operations. En route to the dams his aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire, losing all communication and had to return to RAF Scampton. Of the 58 operations Munro completed while in RAF Bomber Command, 36 were with 617 Squadron. He was taken off active operational duty to command 1690 Bomber Defence Training Flight. He participated in Operation Taxable, a decoy operation connected to D-Day. Munro recounts several near misses, such as almost hitting the barrage balloons hoisted from a convoy on the North Sea. He was highly supportive of the unveiling of the Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park and in particular, ensuring that it would be properly maintained.
Contributor
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Brian May
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal New Zealand Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Canada
Germany
Great Britain
New Zealand
Atlantic Ocean--North Sea
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
England--Rutland
England--Shropshire
England--London
California--San Francisco
United States
California
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1941
1942
1943-05-16
1943-05-17
1944-06-05
1944-06-06
1944
1945
617 Squadron
97 Squadron
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bombing
bouncing bomb
Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992)
crash
Eder Möhne and Sorpe operation (16–17 May 1943)
fear
Flying Training School
Gibson, Guy Penrose (1918-1944)
Heavy Conversion Unit
Lancaster
Manchester
memorial
Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)
Normandy deception operations (5/6 June 1944)
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
RAF North Luffenham
RAF Scampton
RAF Shawbury
RAF Wigsley
RAF Woodhall Spa
take-off crash
Tiger Moth
training
Wellington
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https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/194/3326/PAdamsHG1704.1.jpg
980d8be504d2da9355ce447405cd8c1f
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/194/3326/AAdamsHG170215.1.mp3
041f97f2eedf07da91f07fc45cf06065
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Adams, Herbert
Herbert Adams
H Adams
Herbert G Adams
Description
An account of the resource
88 items. Collection concerns Herbert George Adams DFC, Legion d'Honour (b. 1924, 424509 Royal Australian Air Force). He flew operations as a navigator with 467 Squadron. Collection contains an oral history interview, photographs of people and places, several memoirs about his training and bombing operations, letters to his family, his flying logbook and notes on navigation.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Herbert Adams and catalogued by Nigel Huckins and Trevor Hardcastle.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-02-15
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Adams, HG
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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RG: This is an interview with Herbert Adams for the International Bomber Command Centre on Wednesday the 15th of February 2017 at his home in Kooringal, Wagga, New South Wales, Australia.
LD: The name of the interviewers.
RG: Interviewers are Rob Gray and Lucie Davison.
LD: Alright. All good. Ok.
RG: Off you go.
LD: So, you were born near Gulgong.
HA: That’s right.
LD: New South Wales.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Were you born in town or on a farm? Or where?
HA: No.
LD: What kind of area did you grow up in?
HA: My father had a stock and station agency and carrying business in Birriwa.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Very small. You wouldn’t see it now if you went through it [laughs] but it was a prosperous little district. I went to primary school there. One teacher school.
LD: And did you work there or did you leave?
HA: No.
LD: Leave home to go to work before you signed up?
HA: When I was old enough I went to high school at Mudgee for five years — where I boarded. And in 1938 dad sold the agency and bought a farm at Mendooran.
LD: Oh yes.
HA: And that’s where I reckoned I lived for a while because after I came back from the war they were still on the farm. And in fact, they sold the farm at the end of the 1946 drought and moved into town. And my brother and I took up share farming at Mendooran.
LD: Right.
RG: That town being Mudgee or —? That town being Mudgee or —?
HA: Not Mudgee. It was Mendooran, sort of east of Dubbo. South of Coonabarabran.
RG: Right. Ok. Yeah.
HA: We did that for three years and then I took on carrying for about a year and a half. Carting cement from Kandos to Sydney.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then I bought a sports store in Mudgee.
LD: Oh right.
RG: Ok.
HA: Where I strung tennis rackets and fixed cricket bats, sold toys and stuff like that for seven or eight years. Got married and had three kids there. Didn’t know what to do with myself when I sold the sports store so I went to teacher’s college in Sydney for a year.
LD: Oh. Wow.
RG: Ok.
HA: Boarded with me sister. Left my family at Mudgee and got appointed to Mudgee to teach.
LD: Well that was handy wasn’t it?
HA: Well [laughs] we were asked to give preferences of where we wanted to teach and I said ‘Mudgee. Mudgee. Mudgee.’ And they said, ‘Well you’re married and an ex-serviceman and you live there. If necessary we’ll move someone.’ Which they did.
LD: Oh.
RG: Oh. yeah. Very good.
HA: They moved a first year out. A young fella.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Our From Mudgee to Muswellbrook or Maitland or somewhere over there.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I taught junior maths and, senior and junior biology for five years.
RG: Right. Ok.
HA: At the same time, I did a degree from Armidale by correspondence.
RG: A degree in —?
HA: Just a BA degree with a major in maths and education. Tried to get a science degree out of them but they wouldn’t agree to an external student.
RG: Oh for science.
HA: Getting a science degree even though I could have had more science units.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Than what they could provide from Armidale.
RG: It’s odd isn’t it? Perhaps it required laboratory work or something at Armidale or something like that.
HA: I don’t know, just one of those regulations.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Regulations you can’t undo.
RG: Yeah. I was going to say with your service background to put down Mudgee, Mudgee Mudgee you were liable to be sent to Coonabarabran or somewhere. Anyway.
HA: Yeah. So, I taught at Mudgee there for five years and then I resigned and joined the air force a second time. Came to Wagga.
RG: Oh. Ok.
LD: Oh right.
HA: As an education officer out here at Forest Hill.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Oh excellent.
HA: Which I did for just on three years.
RG: What were you teaching in the air force?
HA: First two years — adult trainees.
RG: Yeah.
HA: It was basic maths, physics and [Electrical] tech.
RG: Yeah.
HA: In the second year I was teaching fellas who didn’t want to be instructors to be instructors [laughs]
RG: Yeah. I was one of those. Yeah.
HA: It was an experience.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I learnt more about teaching in that year than I did at teacher college. For sure.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And then —
LD: That must have been most interesting. Going back into the air force again after all that time.
HA: It was, yeah, because I was straight away a flight lieutenant.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I did Anzac Day addresses and things like that.
RG: When was that? When did you go back into the air force?
HA: ’65 ‘66. ’67.
RG: Right. So, twenty years after you left.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
LD: That would have been fascinating.
RG: Have we got — sorry. Have we got Bert’s date of birth? Anywhere?
LD: Oh. No. What’s your date of birth, Bert?
HA: 23rd of the 2nd ’24.
LD: Ok.
HA: So, I’ll be ninety three next week.
LD: Wow. So, did you work before joining the air force the first time?
HA: Yes. I worked in Sydney for a year and a half. The local government department in Bridge Street.
LD: Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Didn’t like it much. Didn’t get much money.
RG: This was as a clerk or —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Junior clerk. And when they brought in compulsory service for the army I was very keen to get in because six shillings a day was big money.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Like, I was paying board in Sydney and train fares and had nothing left. I couldn’t even play hockey because I didn’t have enough money to go and play hockey every weekend.
RG: Right. Yeah. So that, what year was that that you —?
HA: 1941 and 1942.
RG: So, so you were called up in —
HA: ’42.
RG: ’42.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So, you were called up in to the army initially.
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: Where did you go to?
HA: Went to Dubbo and did the infantry training for a month and then was invited, if you could drive a truck, to go to Moorebank near Liverpool and do a motor-school for a month.
RG: Right.
HA: A lot of stuff with Bren gun carriers.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And internal, whatever you call it. A written exam at the end of it. We had lectures at night and that sort of thing. Some of the fellas could barely read and write and they were in the army. I’d finished High School with good passes.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yes.
HA: I came top of the course.
LD: Yeah.
HA: I was invited to go to Sydney Tech College for six months and come out as a warrant officer instructor.
RG: Right.
HA: At aged eighteen.
RG: Ok. That was advanced promotion.
HA: I thought about it very seriously.
RG: You would have done. We’re talking about six shillings being good money.
HA: Anyway, I was already on the reserve for aircrew so when that came up I got out of the army.
LD: Oh right.
RG: So, did you volunteer for the reserve for the aircrew? Did you do that before you joined up? Or —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: As a matter of fact, when Air Training Corps first formed, late in 1941 I think it was.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I was one of the first in.
RG: Right.
HA: And that was supposed to get you a month or two precedence on the, on the waiting list. There was a big waiting list for aircrew.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Eight months. Something like that.
RG: So did you do — we’ve read Andy, sorry, Adrian Child, sorry Ray child — Charlwood sorry.
HA: I’ve read two of his books.
RG: Yeah. And his way, he did it he came in through the ATS got assessed, got accepted, sent home and then came back later and did some training and then got sent home again and then went and did his specialist — his navigator’s training was it? Did something similar happen to you? Did you like get accepted and sent home again?
HA: No. Air Training Corps was only part time stuff up at Ashfield. Never got any uniform.
RG: Oh. This is not the ATS —this is Air Training Corps. Yeah. Ok. Sorry. Yeah. Different.
HA: Sorry. Wrong thing.
RG: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking of the ATS. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. Where we were up to?
RG: So, Ashfield.
HA: Ashfield.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So, which ITS did you end up going to?
HA: Bradfield.
LD: Oh right.
HA: Number 2.
LD: Oh my God. That’s where Ken was.
RG: That’s where Ken was. Yeah.
LD: I have a relative who was there.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Ken Glover.
HA: I’ve got an idea as I can remember that name. I was in 32 course for a start.
LD: I’m not sure what course he was in.
RG: No. He —
LD: I haven’t been able to find that out.
RG: He became a rear gunner. He was in 463. And he was killed on Christmas Eve ‘43 over Berlin.
LD: He started out in 207 Squadron.
RG: Yeah. He started out in 207 RAF.
HA: Yeah. He was a bit earlier at Bradfield than me if he was on Berlin raids.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah. He left [pause] he left Australia like January ’42.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: ‘43. He was killed at the end of ’43.
LD: Oh, I’m getting mixed up.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.
HA: Yeah. There may have been another Glover that I met somewhere along the way.
RG: I’m sure there were scads of them really. Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: I actually had a time. I got the mumps while I was there and went out to Prince Henry Hospital. Came back and I found myself in 33 course. And then they said, ‘They need more fellas at the training places. We’re going to do a rushed course so that you can go out with 32 course again.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: ‘Providing you’re quick enough at Morse.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: And because I’d been in the Air Training Corps I was fast enough at Morse.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: So, I ended up with 32 course at Bradfield. And then came to Cootamundra.
LD: Yes.
HA: 1 AOS. I didn’t even get inside the gate. We were throwing kit bags up on to a truck and I collapsed and found myself in hospital.
RG: As a result of the mumps?
HA: Woke up the next day with terrible trouble with appendicitis.
RG: Oh, ok. Yeah.
HA: I was delirious for a few days and a bit lucky to survive I think because penicillin was, luckily, available.
LD: Yeah.
HA: In those days.
RG: Yeah. And only just available too. Yeah.
LD: Yes.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And so, I was in the hospital for a month with a hole with a rubber tube gushing out rubbish. Finally sent home, I think for Christmas, still with a hole in my belly. And —
RG: So, this is Christmas ‘41
HA: ‘42
RG: ‘42.
HA: ‘42. Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And they said, ‘By the way you will have to come back to hospital next year and have your appendix out.’
LD: What?
RG: They hadn’t done it.
HA: They didn’t take it out. All they’d done was drain all the muck out of it to treat it.
LD: Oh of course. They needed to drain everything ‘cause if they tried to operate with —
RG: The poison would have got into the bloodstream. Yeah.
LD: Yes. Yes.
RG: Lucie is an ex-nurse so.
HA: Yeah.
HA: My wife’s an ex-nurse too.
LD: We’re good people [laughs]
HA: So, I came out of hospital and did some time with 35 course and helped in the sick quarters for a while.
RG: This is filling in time before the next observers course.
HA: Yeah. Then I came down to Wagga.
RG: So, you didn’t actually get to Cootamundra at all. You were posted there but didn’t get there.
HA: Oh yes. When I come out of hospital I was put on to 35 course.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I went to lectures and did one flight with them. And then they said but you’ve got to go and get your appendix out so I came to the RAAF hospital out here at Forest Hill which hadn’t long been opened and had my appendix out. And went back and fooled around until 38 course started.
LD: [laughs] They must have been wondering if they were ever going to get rid of you.
RG: Yeah. So instead of three months it was nine months.
LD: Oh right.
HA: At Cootamundra.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Mind you that kept you out of the worst of it.
HA: It may have kept me out of going to the islands or somewhere like that, you know.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yes. Yeah.
RG: Or the Battle of Berlin as well. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Anyway —
LD: Did you end up doing any of your training overseas or was it all done in Australia?
HA: Up to the wing stage — in Australia.
LD: Right.
HA: I did bomb aiming and gunnery at Evans Head for two months and then astro nav at Parkes for a month. And then after a bit of leave we got on a boat and went to San Francisco.
LD: Do you remember the name of the ship?
HA: The Mount Vernon. I think.
LD: Ok. Yeah. Did you go via New Zealand?
HA: No. Non-stop.
LD: Oh. Ok.
HA: And we got our sea legs I think because it was calm for the first week or so and then there was a big storm.
LD: Yeah.
HA: There were logs floating around in San Francisco harbour.
LD: Right.
RG: Did you leave from Sydney or Melbourne?
HA: From Sydney.
RG: Sydney. Yeah. By the way when you said you did one flight with 38 course.
HA: 35.
RG: 35. What sort of aircraft?
HA: Ansons.
RG: Ansons. Yeah. Ok.
HA: It was Fairey Battles at Evans Head and it was Ansons again at Parkes.
RG: Right. Yeah.
HA: Astro.
RG: Yeah.
LD: So were you happy to be a navigator or would you have preferred some other role? Because you said you did the gunnery course as well. Did you have any choice in this or —
HA: While we were at Bradfield park they asked us towards the end of the business which you’d like to be and nearly everybody wanted to be a pilot of course. The day that they did the coordination test I was at the dentist and so I missed that.
RG: [laughs] You had bad medical trouble there didn’t you [laughs]
HA: I had a lot of trouble with my teeth.
RG: Oh dear.
HA: And the test was to sit in a seat with rudder pedals and a joystick with a screen where somebody made a dot move around the screen at random and you had to chase it with your feet.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I knew I’d made a terrible mess of it. Partly because when I was a kid I had a flivver which you steered with your feet. If you wanted to go to the right you did that which is just the opposite.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: To what you want to do in an aeroplane.
RG: Sorry a flivver.
HA: A flivver.
RG: What’s a flivver? What —
HA: Well it had a handle on it like the trikes that they had on the railway.
RG: The ones that you cranked. Yes.
HA: Yes.
RG: Oh ok. I didn’t know they were called flivvers.
HA: Yeah. Anyway, so, I knew I made a mess of it so when they came to ask me what I wanted to do I said navigator. They said, ‘Why don’t you want to be a pilot?’ And I said, ‘Well I made a mess of the coordination test and I’m pretty good at maths and stuff.’ I didn’t tell them that a lot of fellas say, ‘I want to be a pilot,’ and they say, ‘Oh well. You can be a rear gunner.’
RG: Yeah. [laughs] Ok.
LD: Yes.
HA: So, I got in first.
RG: That was a smart move.
LD: Yes. Yeah. They were getting to be short of rear gunners, weren’t they? Very sadly.
HA: So, we got on a, oh there was only six hundred of us on the ship. Most of the people were American servicemen who were either ill or wounded. Coming back from the Pacific.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And so, when we got to San Francisco they said, ‘There’s sixty of you navigators,’ or observers as we were then. We had an O wing, ‘Who thought you were going to Canada to do a six months reconnaissance course. That’s been scrubbed. You are now going across to Britain for Bomber Command.’ So, we had to —
RG: Oh. So you might have ended up doing reconnaissance flights in Mosquitos, I presume. Or something of that nature.
HA: Probably in Liberators across the Atlantic I would think.
RG: Oh ok. Ok.
LD: Right.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Anyhow.
RG: Yeah.
HA: That was scrubbed and we got on a troop train and went across America to New York and got on a ship called the Isle de France.
RG: Ah yes. Famous vessel.
HA: On Christmas Eve.
RG: That’s Christmas Eve forty.
HA: ’43.
RG: ‘43 yeah.
LD: Oh right. Yeah.
RG: That was the night Ken was killed.
LD: Yes. Yeah.
HA: It got as far as the Statue of Liberty and broke down.
RG: [laughs] That was the French.
HA: And we thought thank goodness because we were right down below the waterline at the stern with the sides coming down like that.
RG: Oh yes. Yeah.
HA: And had to climb through round portholes all around.
RG: Hatches. Yeah.
HA: Vertical ladders to get up to the next deck.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Anyhow, they kept us there overnight. They gave us some sandwiches I think and then the next morning they said, ‘You can wait until we give you some more sandwiches and some pay. Or you can do without that. Go straight into New York where there’s likely to be people taking you home for Christmas dinner.’
LD: Well there’s an option isn’t there?
HA: So, three of us went out to a very nice double decker house in Mount Vernon for lunch. We thought Christmas lunch, you know. Christmas lunch came time and there were plenty of little nibbles and plenty of drinks. This went on all the whole afternoon until about 7 o’clock at night and they brought out the turkey. Us three all said, ‘Well yes, we wouldn’t mind a second helping,’ [laughs]. He took us to his factory the next day. He had a factory that made, amongst other things, handkerchiefs. He gave us some handkerchiefs each.
RG: You don’t happen to remember the family name by any chance, do you? A big ask I know but —
HA: Richie, I think. Richie.
RG: Richie. Ok.
HA: And took us to his club. We offered to buy a drink after he’d bought us one. Everything’s done with chips.
RG: So, you can’t possibly. That’s a polite way to do it isn’t it?
HA: Took us back to our camp at Fort McDowell or Fort Slocum or something. I’ve forgotten the name and we had a few more days in New York. Went to Madison Square Garden and saw an ice hockey match for the first time.
LD: Oh wow.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Went to Jack Dempsey’s Spaghetti Bar.
RG: Ok. Yes. Sorry. Sorry Bert, I was just going to say, I know you said it was a camp. Fort Slocum or wherever it was. Was that like a transit camp for Commonwealth personnel or was it a US army camp or —?
HA: I can’t remember.
RG: Ok.
HA: I can’t remember. It seemed to be a useful sort of a camp.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Could have been [unclear] or that sort of thing.
RG: Yeah.
LD: I have read that Australian servicemen in the States, because there were a lot of people like you who were, you know, kind of in between places who ended up staying there for a couple of weeks or something were very welcome and, you know, never had to buy a drink and so on. Is that — is that your experience?
HA: They were very generous. The Americans.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Yeah. We didn’t buy a drink the time that we were with him of course. I can’t remember other Americans shouting us drinks while we were in New York but in Denver one day, we had a couple of hours in Denver and a fellow came up to us and said, ‘You’ve strange uniforms.’ We had Australia across here. ‘I didn’t know Austria was on our side.’ [laughs]
RG: [laughs] Did you point out that Hitler was an Austrian [laughs] Anyway, yeah.
HA: So, we talked to him a bit about Australia then and [pause]
LD: I have, I’ve also read about the Australians being mistaken for German POWs. Did you, did you have that experience?
HA: I think that could happen. I got mistaken for a policeman a couple of times in London. In the blue uniform.
RG: The blue uniform, yeah. Of course.
LD: Oh of course. The darker blue.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Yes.
HA: And because we’d been to London a few times and used the Underground I knew my way around London fairly well as far as the Underground was concerned. So if somebody said, ‘How do I get to —,’ such and such. I was able to say, ‘That way.’ [laughs] Didn’t let on I wasn’t a policeman.
LD: Fair enough.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So, did you have a safe trip across to Britain after all that. Did you have any problems?
HA: No. No. On New Year’s Eve we boarded the Queen Elizabeth.
LD: Oh. Right.
HA: And it had, it had been partly furnished for passengers before the war but it hadn’t been finished.
RG: No.
HA: There were parts of it were still open hold.
RG: Yeah.
HA: With stacks of —
RG: She came straight from the shipyard. Straight in as a troopship. Yeah.
HA: We got a cabin and there was —
LD: Lucky you.
HA: Eighteen of us, I think, in a cabin, with a little toilet corner in it. Most everywhere there was six feet on a wall with three bunks.
RG: Three bunks. Yeah.
LD: Ah yes.
HA: There were six walls altogether including the corner of it.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: We had a great time there. Used to sit on the floor and play cards.
LD: Did you have to — did you have to act as lookouts on the Queen Elizabeth?
HA: No.
LD: Right.
HA: No. We did boat drill which was a bit of a hassle because there was over twenty thousand troops on it. Two or three of the top decks that were open to the weather had three bunks up the wall. Bolted on.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Americans took twelve hours on, twelve hours off on those bunks.
RG: Wow.
HA: So they could fit more people in.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I’ve read about the hot-bunking. I didn’t realise it was to that extent.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Two meals a day because it took four hours to feed them all.
LD: Yes. Yeah.
HA: Four hours to clean up and then another one.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
LD: I also read that the meals were more than a bit basic.
HA: They were, they were alright.
RG: This was a British, this was a British ship. Not an American one. Different. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. We had good meals on the boat. On the trains across America too. It was a bit strange. They’d ask for volunteers to go and count the stuff through the corridor sort of thing. I never had to do that. But they’d arrive with a stainless streel tray, plate, with five compartments on it. You’d put meat there and vegetables there, vegetables there, vegetables there, fruit salad there. And then they’d get a ladle and put what we reckoned was plum jam and put it all over the plate [laughs]
LD: Oh.
HA: It may have been chutney I don’t know.
LD: It sounds awful.
RG: You’re right to separate everything and then join it up with — yeah.
LD: So, did you have the Pullman carriages?
HA: Yes.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Yes. A little compartment with enough people for four. And yet they only put three in it because at night time they had a negro porter came in and made up a double bed at the bottom.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And pulled down —
LD: Yeah.
HA: One at the top which I got in. Being wintertime, each morning I’d find icicles hanging down from the ceiling where the fellas underneath would be warm because they were steam heated.
RG: Yeah. Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. So did you get to see snow on that trip as well?
HA: Yes. For the first time. We pulled up in marshalling yards at Chicago for about an hour and a half, I suppose. Nowhere near the platform but there was railway lines forever.
RG: Yeah.
HA: We saw it was snow on the ground so, ‘Oh, we’ll get out and have a snow fight.’ So, we got out and had the snow fight for about five minutes and it was minus thirty.
RG: Yeah. Chicago in the winter.
HA: We got back in again pretty quick.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah. No. That’s, that’s my relative’s experience as well. Was seeing the snow for the first time.
HA: Yeah. It was the first time I’d seen snow.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Going across the Atlantic in the Queen Elizabeth after about three days they said, ‘There’s reputed to be a U-boat pack waiting out there somewhere so we’re going to go up near Iceland somewhere and we’re going to go flat out.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, put your warm clothes on.’ We’re not going to — we’re going to turn the heating off and go as fast as we can.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: We met some of the crew in Glasgow. Greenock. They took us for a tour of the ship later and said that they got over forty knots.
RG: Wow.
HA: That night going up.
RG: She was fast. I didn’t realise she was that fast though.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Wow.
LD: So, did you, did you land in Greenock?
HA: Yeah.
LD: Yeah. Ok. Yeah.
RG: Yes, I suppose if you’ve got the threat of U-boats you’ll find the, you’ll find the extra knots.
HA: Yeah, they put all the steam they could get in to it.
LD: So, once you arrived in the UK where did you go to then?
HA: By train to Brighton.
LD: Brighton. Ok. And were you there for long?
HA: I think about three weeks.
LD: Right. Yeah.
HA: We did a little bit of training. I think the main thing we did was learn the stars of the northern hemisphere.
RG: Oh course. Yeah.
LD: Of course. Absolutely. Yeah.
RG: They didn’t teach you that while you were here?
HA: No. No.
RG: I mean even theoretically. That’s funny. I suppose a lot of you would have ended up in the Pacific theatre so, yeah.
HA: There’s enough to learn one lot at a time.
RG: Yeah. True enough. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. No. I remember the first time I went to Europe, you know, looking up at the sky and going —
RG: It’s all different.
LD: All the bases of my life were gone. It’s quite strange and it would have been even more so for you because that’s —
RG: Your trade.
LD: Yeah . That would have been really interesting for you.
HA: At Brighton there was two big hotels. The Metropole and The Grand that were taken over by the RAAF as a holding centre. And again, when we left to come home. Same place.
LD: Oh right.
RG: They’re both on the seafront aren’t they?
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah. I can remember the Metropole.
HA: When I went back to Europe in ‘94 and took a trip down to Brighton and had a look at them and they’ve dolled them up. They’re both nice looking hotels.
RG: Yeah. They’re both there though. Yeah.
HA: They were very basic then.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And was Brighton all — ‘cause I know Bournemouth had all the razor wire on the beaches and things like that. Was the same sort of protections there in Brighton?
HA: Yes. One of the, I think both of the piers had a hole cut in the middle of them so that they couldn’t —
RG: Couldn’t land on the end.
HA: Get on to one end and come ashore sort of thing.
LD: Were there any air raids or anything while you were there?
HA: Yes. There were air raids while we were there.
LD: Yeah.
HA: For a start we used to go down to the basement and they didn’t seem to do much harm so after that we didn’t bother. We just stayed in our bedroom.
RG: That would have been also around the time of the V1s and V2s.
HA: Yes.
RG: Did you have any experience of those? Or —
HA: Once or twice when I was in London on leave we heard one or two come over and we actually heard one stop one night and thought oh, this is going to be a bang.
RG: Oh dear.
HA: And sure, enough there was a bang not far away.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve heard people, Londoner’s I’ve met, who said that they were far more frightened of the V1s than the V2s because of that. You’d hear. In the buildings you couldn’t see them. You could hear them and when they stopped it was, ‘Where is it going to fall?’
HA: Yeah.
RG: Whereas the V2 was the crash and if you heard the crash — well you were still alive. So that was —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I don’t think there was any V2s ever landed when I was in London. They were frightening.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And I don’t think there was any of the London guns landed in London when I was there either. You’ve heard about the London guns. The V3.
RG: That’s the V3. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I have heard about it. I didn’t know they actually fired on —
HA: Yeah. They fired a few.
RG: Oh ok.
HA: But nowhere near what they wanted to.
RG: No.
HA: They were going to finish Britain off with the V2s and V3s.
RG: Well by that point they were disappearing back away from the French coast weren’t they?
HA: Yeah. That’s right.
RG: Yeah. You’re talking January ‘45.
HA: Yeah. So the London gun got bypassed.
RG: Shuffled back. Yeah. Became a Calais gun or something [laughs] as far as you could reach.
LD: So which OTU did you end up being sent to?
HA: Lichfield.
LD: Yeah.
HA: Before that we went to an AFU At Llandwrog. In North Wales.
RG: Wales.
LD: What was an AFU?
HA: They called it an Advanced Flying Unit.
LD: Oh right. Yeah.
HA: Avro Ansons again. That was mainly to familiarise navigators and bomb aimers I think with map reading in Britain.
LD: Oh right.
HA: Which was altogether different to the Riverina
LD: Just a little [laughs]
RG: [unclear]
LD: Not to mention the stars.
RG: Yeah. And at Lichfield — that was an OTU.
HA: Lichfield it was a fairly popular OTU where we crewed up and —
LD: Yeah.
HA: Flew Wellingtons.
LD: Right.
RG: For training.
HA: For training.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
LD: So how did they crew you guys up? It seems to have been a little different in different places.
HA: They gave us two days to hang around in the hangar and hang around in the mess drinking beer and find ourselves a crew.
LD: Right.
RG: Right. But that was a five man crew wasn’t it?
HA: Six.
RG: Six. In a Wellington.
HA: Six I think.
RG: Six. Yeah. Ok.
HA: Yeah. Even though Wellingtons only had five in the crew.
RG: Yeah.
HA: You crewed up with six and the rear gunner and the mid-upper gunner took turns in the rear turret to practice.
RG: Oh ok.
LD: Oh right. Ok. Yeah.
RG: But you’re still one down from a Lancaster though ‘cause that was seven.
HA: Yeah. No engineer.
RG: No engineer. Right.
HA: So, Syd Payne and I who’d done our training in Australia together as observers and he had been a — started off as a pilot. Did Tiger Moths at Narromine and got scrubbed on Wirraways at Uranquinty I think. So, he looked like a valuable bloke to have in a crew. Somebody who could fly.
RG: Fly. Yes. Of course.
HA: And we were both navigator — bomb aimer, sort of thing and he trained.
RG: Tossed a coin to see who did what.
HA: He trained as a bomb aimer just across Anglesey from where Llandwrog was. So, we’re looking around for a pilot.
RG: Sorry. Did you two decide between yourselves who was going to be the bomb aimer and who was going to be the navigator?
HA: Before we’d even got there because he trained as a bomb aimer AFU.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I trained as a navigator AFU.
RG: Yes. Oh of course. That was before Lichfield yes. Of course. Yeah.
HA: Before Lichfield.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: So we got together and we found a pilot with a wireless op attached. And they were both Queenslanders. Both same age as us. All twenty years old. And after looking at a few others, sort of thing, I think the pilot decided that, yes, we would do him sort of thing and so we were thinking about a rear gunner. And a pair of gunners. Looking around and then a pair of gunners came and found us [emphasis] They turned out to be fellas who came first and second in their gunnery course.
RG: Nice.
HA: So, they, they had the pick of the mob sort of thing. So they picked us luckily. We got on well with them so —
RG: Both Australians. So —
HA: Yes. All Australians.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The rear gunner was from Sydney. In fact, we had a connection. I don’t know whether he’d married already a girl that I knew in Mudgee.
RG: Oh. Ok.
HA: Or married her after.
RG: After the war.
HA: One or the other. And the other fella was a farm worker from Western Australia who was elderly. He was twenty five.
RG: Oh gosh.
LD: Oh. Poor old man. You’d have to help him on with a stick.
HA: And they were both teetotallers.
RG: Oh. Ok. Ok. Maybe that’s why they came first and second in their gunnery course.
HA: And they were good shots. The bloke from Western Australia had done a bit of clay pigeon shooting, well live pigeon shooting against kangaroos and stuff.
RG: Yeah.
HA: You know. So, he knew about leading.
RG: Yeah. And they used clay pigeons to the train the gunners. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. So, they were good shots by the time we got together and of course we did a lot more training. One of the things we did at Lichfield in our training was do a bullseye.
RG: Yes.
HA: Several reckoned it counted as an operation. Others reckoned it counted as half an operation. Yeah. They got all the training planes together. Not only from Lichfield but a heap of them and flew up as if you were going to Wilhelmshaven or something like that. Up in the Baltic. When you got nearly there you turned around and came back while the rest of Bomber Command went to Munich or somewhere.
RG: Oh, you were the decoy force.
HA: Diversion decoy. Yeah.
RG: Diversion. Of course. Yeah.
LD: This is the first time I’ve actually been able to confirm what a command bullseye was.
RG: Yeah. Lucie’s relative, Ken mentions in his logbook about a command bullseye but they did these over London.
LD: But they did these over London. Yes.
RG: But and he just says command bullseye and we’ve asked the other veterans and none of them have known what it was. They didn’t do it. So —
LD: I’ve only found one reference to it in the research.
RG: Yeah.
LD: That’s really good. I’m really pleased [laughs]
HA: We did another one when we were on Stirlings. We did another bullseye.
RG: Oh that was still on Wellingtons wasn’t it?
HA: This was still on Wellingtons. Yeah.
RG: Yeah. And then you went over to Stirlings did you?
HA: Yes. Our next move after Lichfield was Swinderby.
RG: Oh yes.
HA: Near Lincoln. And I was on Stirlings.
RG: Yeah. Where you found an engineer at that point.
HA: Yeah. That’s where we got our engineer.
RG: Was he appointed or did you find him?
HA: He was just appointed to us and he was a man of forty four.
RG: Wow.
LD: Really.
HA: He’d been a policeman for years.
RG: Yeah.
HA: In Birmingham and Coventry.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And those sorts of places.
RG: So he was RAF.
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: I didn’t realise.
HA: He was born in Scotland. His parents lived in Ireland. When we went on leave he had to change in to civvies to go over to Ireland.
RG: To go to Ireland [laughs]
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yes.
LD: So, did you do anything other than kind of like a spoof raid on the bullseye. Did you drop leaflets?
HA: No.
LD: Or anything like that?
HA: No. We just stayed over the sea all the time.
LD: Right. Ok.
RG: Ok.
HA: And the other one we did in the Stirlings I think we only went about as far as the Dutch coast. It was quite a short trip compared with the one that went nearly to Wilhelmshaven.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yeah.
RG: So how long were you on Stirlings for? And again, this is just training isn’t it? On the Stirlings.
HA: Training. Yeah. We trained there for about a month I think.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: It was mainly circuits and bumps and that sort of thing for the pilot more than —
RG: Get used to the four engines.
HA: Probably did about a couple of cross country’s and that sort of thing.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Some bombing. Fighter affiliation for the gunners.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: So, the bullseyes. Were they both at night?
HA: Yes.
LD: Yeah. So that would have been training for you as a navigator as well wouldn’t it?
HA: Oh yeah.
LD: Sort of doing the real thing. Yeah.
HA: Oh yeah. Had to find our way there and back. But when we got to Lichfield I think, on OTU, on the Wellingtons we first had Gee.
LD: Yes.
HA: Which was a tremendous help for navigators. You could get accurate fixes whenever you wanted them.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Up as far as the enemy frontier sort of thing. They jammed it after that. If we could get an hour or two when we were on an operations of good fixes before Gee gave up. And they also had APIs which you don’t seem to be in the literature much. Air Position Indicators.
RG: No.
HA: They were the best thing going for —
RG: How did that work?
HA: When we were at Cootamundra or AFU we were expected to keep a manual air plot. Every change of direction or speed or height made a difference to the air plot each time.
LD: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Then if you found a fix you could find a wind.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And that depended on the pilot sticking to the course that he was told to be on.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The speed he was told to be on and the height he was supposed —
RG: So pilot’s actually —
LD: Pilots don’t always do that.
HA: Navigation was very much a — perhaps. But with API they had a distance reading compass down the back that was half gyro and half magnetic.
RG: Yeah. Gyro magnetic compass. I know those. Yeah.
HA: And that came via the nav table through a control called a Variation Setting Control so you could set the variation on that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And change it as you went across Europe.
RG: Yeah.
HA: From 11 around Lincoln to about 3 at Berlin or something like that.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: And deviations.
RG: Yeah.
HA: They’d swing the compass every now and again on the ground. Give you a deviation card.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Generally only one or two degrees.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So the true directions would come out on the repeater compasses for the navigator and the pilot.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And the bomb aimer.
LD: Right.
HA: And the API had true directions going to it and then from the air speed indicator which didn’t give true airspeed by any means when you, as you went higher. The indicated air speed might be a hundred and sixty mile an hour and the true air speed be two hundred miles an hour.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Thinner air. That’s going to —
HA: Thinner air. So that was accounted for as well.
RG: Wow. That’s —
HA: So the API had got true directions and true speed.
RG: Yeah. And altitude to make that variation. Yeah.
HA: Just had two knobs on it.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Two little windows.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And the normal thing we did for a start was to set the latitude and longitude of the airfield and as you flew along any time you wanted to find out where your air position was it was there. You just wrote it down. Latitude and longitude. Popped it down on your chart.
RG: And that was quite accurate.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Wow. Ok. So that were, that were in Lancs and Stirlings obviously. And Wellingtons.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Ok. So was this must have been, was this something that sort of came along later in the war? Do you know?
HA: I think it probably came in in late ’43.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I would imagine.
RG: Ok. Yeah. You’re right. I haven’t come across that either, but, yeah.
LD: Did you get — because from what I’ve read there was a lot of technology happening there around all sorts of things but, you know, including navigation.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Did you find there was a lot of changes in the equipment that you used and were you actually trained in those changes?
HA: Yes.
LD: Or did you just kind of wake up one morning and get on the aircraft and find it was new.
HA: We had — Lancasters were fitted with H2S when we got to Waddington.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And we used them in training on [pause] between — between the Stirlings and going in to the squadron we did a Lanc Finishing School. I think that’s where we first saw H2S on the planes.
RG: Yeah.
HA: All the planes had H2S at Waddington. And we used them for training exercises but we were forbidden to use them on operations because the Germans could home in on them with their fighters.
RG: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
HA: And so the only time we ever used H2S over Germany was on a daylight trip to Wilhelmshaven when they expected to have a lot of cloud over the target and so for the first time we ever got directions like this — ‘If you can’t see the target you can use H2S or you can drop your bombs when you see another one drop their bombs.’ [laughs]
RG: [laughs] Gosh.
LD: That’s precision bombing.
RG: Yeah.
LD: So you’re all sitting there going can any of us see the target? Who’s going to drop a bomb first?
HA: In our training with H2S the bomb aimer used to come and sit alongside the navigator. Both fiddled with H2S and so he came up and we were deliberating about where we were going to aim at sort of thing and we finally said, ‘Oh well, that’ll do.’ When we pressed the bombing tit two other Lancs dropped theirs.
RG: [laughs] Not sort of what you’d expect is it?
HA: We don’t know what harm we did.
LD: Might have killed a couple of sheep.
HA: Anyway, that was H2S. Gee didn’t change except as, as the allies crept up through France and so forth.
RG: Went further out.
HA: They opened up two more Gee chains besides the ones that were based in England.
RG: Yeah.
HA: One was called the Reims. One was called the Ruhr. And the other thing was after about two months, I think, Loran was fitted to the Lancs.
LD: Sorry. What was that?
RG: Loran.
HA: L O R A N long range air navigation.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Which related to Gee in that it measured time differences between the emitter and the plane. And that chart with curved lines in different colours. Same as Gee. But apparently it was only effective at night time because instead of getting direct radio signals they were bounced off the ionosphere at night time.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: It had an extremely long range. Covered all of Europe. And when they came out to the Pacific it covered all the Pacific area.
RG: Really important in the Pacific. Yeah.
HA: So we trained with Loran while we were on the squadron and actually used it about halfway through our tour. Used Loran when Gee ran out.
RG: But was it as accurate as Gee?
HA: Not as accurate.
RG: No.
HA: And a bit more cumbersome to use because you tuned into one station and got one partition line at a time and then you had to tune into a second one.
RG: Get the second position line.
HA: Get the different and then transfer further along.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Parallel ruler and muck around. So it was a bit slower. I think it was accurate enough. Good enough to find the target anyway.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Were you mostly on, at 467, on daylight operations at that point or still mostly night time? Night operations?
HA: We got back to mostly back to night time by that time. This was September when we started and D-day was back in June.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Sorry that was September. What year?
HA: ‘44.
LD: Thank you. Just to –
HA: We finished in January ’45.
LD: Right. Yeah.
HA: So we did a few daylight trips. The first and third ones were fairly big raids on le Havre and Boulogne in daylight. Big armies.
RG: Army support. Yeah.
HA: In both those places and they had side-tracked or bypassed them with the Canadians and British armies.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And finally, they decided it was about time they cleaned them out, sort of thing. So dropped a lot of bombs on various parts.
RG: Yeah.
HA: It wasn’t area bombing like there was on towns in Britain, in Germany. It was specific things.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Like oil dumps, E-boat pens. Stuff like this.
RG: Transport links and stuff like that. Yeah. Tactical. More tactical.
HA: Tactical stuff.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: They didn’t want to kill too many Frenchmen.
RG: No. No. Exactly.
LD: No. One doesn’t.
HA: So, we did that in daylight.
LD: That’s right.
RG: So that was on your first and third trip.
HA: First and third trips. Yeah.
LD: How many ops did you complete?
HA: Twenty nine.
LD: That’s a good number.
HA: Pardon?
LD: That’s a very good number.
HA: Yeah. Well I think the bullseyes might have counted to make it thirty.
RG: I was going to say, Bert, it varied over time we noticed that the number of ops you had to do to do a, you know, to do a tour.
HA: A tour varied.
RG: Yeah. In your period it was how many?
HA: Thirty to finish.
RG: It was thirty still. Yeah. Ok.
HA: When we started it was thirty six because it had been made thirty six around D-day.
RG: Ok.
HA: With so many short trips.
RG: Of course. Yeah. Yes.
HA: And then a month or two after D-day they broke it back to thirty three.
RG: ‘Cause you were going back on the raids on Germany then.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then after we’d done about fifteen or twenty trips or something like that they said you only have to do thirty from now on.
RG: That was a bit of a relief.
HA: Yeah. But there was some longer trips coming up.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: We did one long trip to Trondheim in Norway.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Wow.
HA: Almost eleven hours.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And they put a smokescreen over the target and so the master bomber said, ‘Well, you can take your bombs home.’ So we did almost eleven hours with a full bomb load.
RG: Wow.
LD: Did that count as an op for you?
HA: That counted as an op. Yeah.
LD: Because you didn’t drop any bombs.
HA: You’d only to go to the target and be on the op. Yeah. We did a couple of —
RG: You said you brought the bombs home.
LD: Yeah.
RG: You didn’t land with them did you?
LD: Yes. That’s what I was thinking.
HA: Yeah.
RG: You did.
LD: Wow.
RG: I thought the standard practice was to ditch them in the sea if you were —
HA: Only if you had too much weight.
RG: So —
HA: I think earlier in the war they might have ditched them but we brought our bombs back three times I think.
RG: Ok.
LD: Oh my goodness.
RG: So when you say too much weight you had too much fuel still in and there was like a maximum weight that a Lanc could land with.
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: Oh. I see.
LD: Well, you wouldn’t have had much fuel left after a trip to Norway. Would you?
RG: No. That’s right. It would have been light enough I suppose.
HA: I wrote a bit about this later one time. We were the only one to get back to Waddington with our bombs on. The others either landed in Scotland or ditched their bombs in the Atlantic.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then got back to Waddington. But we didn’t bother. We came all the way back and had eighty gallons left.
RG: Eighty gallons. Don’t go around the circuit once or twice [laughs]
HA: It’s not really enough to go around again.
RG: No.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Wow. Ok.
LD: It doesn’t kind of sound very safe landing with the bombs but —
RG: No. No.
LD: But obviously you managed it.
HA: Yes. I believe —
LD: And the big one would have only been a cookie in that case wouldn’t it? You wouldn’t have had —
HA: Yeah. I don’t think we had a cookie even then. I think we only had about eight or ten one thousand pounders. I could find out in the logbook.
RG: Yeah for that range you would have only had a small one. You’d need more fuel and less bombs for that range.
HA: They actually, like, we were two squadrons taking off from Waddington. So there would have been about forty planes. As you turned at the end of the runway, on the perimeter track to get on to the runway they had a petrol tanker there to top up the tanks.
RG: [laughs] Fair dinkum.
LD: Oh my goodness.
HA: They knew it was going to be touch and go you see.
RG: Wow.
LD: Wow.
RG: That must have been close to one of the longest return — one of the longest return raids of the war surely.
HA: For ordinary squadrons.
RG: Yeah.
HA: But the fellas who did the Tirpitz raids —
RG: Yeah.
HA: They did thirteen, fourteen hour trips.
RG: Yeah. They had modified aircraft though too didn’t they? Yeah.
HA: They threw out the turrets.
RG: Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
LD: Because that’s what I was going to ask with these raids was the crew or the aircraft modified in any way for those, for that long trip.
HA: No. No.
RG: The standard. Still must have come close. I mean there were some squadrons, some raids I believe where they flew across, dropped their bombs in east bloc Poland and then went on and landed at Russian airfields, refuelled and came back out.
HA: Yeah. They did the same with some of the Italians targets early in the war I think.
RG: Yeah. Flew down to North Africa. Yeah. Yeah.
LD: So did you guys know, well no, you didn’t know in advance did you? About where you were going? But how did you feel when you realised you were going to Norway?
HA: We feel pretty happy about it because we thought that’s going to be a safe target.
RG: Yeah.
HA: There’s not going to be anybody shooting at you all the way.
LD: Fair enough.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Actually it was a nasty trip for navigation. There was what they called an occlusion up in the North Sea where a cold front and a warm front got together.
RG: Yeah.
HA: It was raining. And the wind was variable and we were supposed to find our way up there after Gee ran out. For about another two or three hours flying after that. The bomb aimer gave what we thought was a pinpoint crossing the coast of Norway that turned out to be wrong. And he gave another one later on and he thinks it was right. But anyway we finally found the target. Then we had to fly for two or three hours without any aids coming back because it was ten tenths cloud. Still raining.
RG: And you were over the sea the whole way.
HA: When I finally got the first Gee fix we were fifty miles north west of where we should have been.
RG: That’s not bad.
HA: The wind had changed that much.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: In four or five hours.
RG: Yeah. But you’re over the sea almost the whole way too.
HA: Over the sea most of the time.
RG: So if you ditched —
LD: You’ve got no points of reference have you?
RG: No. And if you ditched, you had to ditch you were in deep trouble.
HA: Yeah. Anyhow. We were heading, had a slight headwind at that stage which had been pushing us up that way. We increased the speed a bit because of the headwind and then after about an hour of finding Gee fixes I found the wind had changed to almost the opposite. Anyway, we said, ‘Skipper you can slow the plane down a bit now. We’ve got a bit of a tailwind.’ And so he and I and the engineer did some calculations. We’d already decided we’d land at Lossiemouth or Leuchars or somewhere. In Scotland. But after we did the calculations the skipper said, ‘I think we can give it a go to get back to base because of the tailwind.’ Maybe the other fellas didn’t do that workings. But anyhow we cut it fine.
RG: Yeah. So you started ops with 467 in September.
HA: Yeah.
RG: First and third raid. On your second raid. Where was that to?
HA: Stuttgart. Night raid. In between the skipper did a second dickie to Pforzheim. I forgotten where he went. Somewhere like Stuttgart I think.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And then the next night he went.
RG: Went out on a —
HA: Stuttgart on his own with us.
RG: What was your, how did you, what was your experience of the first raid? You know. The first German raid really. First. Stuttgart. How did you —?
HA: No problem much. The navigator stayed in his blackout curtained room with the light on and I seldom went out and looked at the target.
RG: Ok.
HA: So I left it to the rest of them to do all the looking out and so forth. Our gunners, bomb aimer and engineer all were very good at keeping a lookout.
RG: Good lookout. Yeah. I suppose the resistance from fighters and so forth was slowing down a bit by then wasn’t it? It was still there but —
HA: You’ve heard about Schrage musik.
RG: Schrage musik. Yes. Yes.
HA: That was something that took a great toll of bombers.
RG: Bombers. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Right up to the end of the war I think. When we finished our tour. In the next two months Waddington lost both their COs and one of their flight commanders. All experienced fellas on second tours.
RG: Ok.
HA: Sort of thing and, we think, all to night fighters with their upward firing guns.
RG: The guns. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Some of the some of the German aces were reputed to have shot down over a hundred, sort of thing.
RG: There were a few who got — yeah. Yeah.
HA: It was pretty dangerous.
RG: Yes. Yeah.
LD: I have seen — I think it was a Lanc with, there were modifications, not official ones but just ones that were done in particular squadrons with like, an observation point underneath. I remember seeing the ones with like the little round dome underneath.
RG: Yeah. Like an astrodome.
LD: Yes.
RG: But on the bottom of the fuselage.
LD: Yes, but underneath. So, I have read about you know some aircraft that had these unofficial modifications to watch out for Schrage musik. Did you have anything like that in your — ?
HA: No. We weren’t even told about it.
LD: Ah. That’s what I was wondering as well.
HA: You know, I’m sure the authorities knew about it. Probably months, maybe more, before we flew. They didn’t tell us about it. I think it was probably to keep the morale up.
RG: Morale. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: What they did tell us to do was to do banking searches and —
LD: Banking searches?
HA: Banking searches.
LD: Yes.
HA: Like earlier in the war, before Window, the searchlights and ack-ack were mostly radar controlled and so if you flew straight they would drop onto you and so the technique was to —
RG: Swerve.
HA: Just weave. Go a few — half a minute this way.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Half a minute that way. Sort of thing.
RG: So, predictors couldn’t predict in curves.
HA: Window came in and their radar wasn’t able to lock onto planes. The technique was to put up a barrage of flak and in daytime it looked pretty horrible with all these black puffs in the air. They’d hang in the air for a long time so it looked —
RG: Looked worse than it probably was. Yeah.
HA: So anyway, the technique was to straight, go straight. Don’t weave. Get through it as quick as you can. And all the time we were over enemy territory our pilot was quite religious about the banking searches. They could make the plane do that. Without it changing direction.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Yes.
HA: He’d say, ‘Down port.’ The gunners would have a good look underneath and say, ‘All clear port.’ Roll it over.
LD: Right. Yeah.
HA: ‘All clear starboard.’
RG: Ah ok.
HA: We would do that for hours.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: And we never got shot at by a fighter.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: A couple or three times a gunner saw a fighter and we started corkscrewing and we weren’t chased on any of those occasions.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The general opinion was that if a German fighter saw you doing a corkscrew they’d give up and look for somebody else.
RG: Someone easier. So, you never actually got attacked by a fighter.
HA: Never. No.
LD: Were you ever hit by flak?
HA: Oh yeah. Lots and lots of times. Sometimes a lot of holes. A couple of daylight lowish level ones we got holes from machine guns from the ground.
RG: Wow. Ok.
HA: Walcheren Island. We bombed Walcheren Island three times. Short daylight raids.
RG: Sorry? Whereabout?
HA: Walcheren Island.
RG: Oh sorry. Yeah.
HA: Scheldt Estuary. The first time this was what I was going to tell you about. 617 Squadron landing with their bombs on. I think they did there. We went. 5 Group sent about a hundred planes to Walcheren Island and the aim was to break the sea wall and flood the island and we did a run at about, I think about six thousand feet or something like that and drop seven bombs in a close stick and come around again and did another seven. In the same place. Hopefully.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And a hundred planes did that and they opened it up, the front of the island. Got a picture in The Sun and the next day, sort of thing, “The RAF floods an island.” Apparently 617 Squadron was standing by with tallboy bombs.
RG: Yeah.
HA: In case.
RG: Just in case you didn’t manage it.
HA: And they brought them home.
RG: Wow.
LD: They brought home Tallboys.
HA: Twelve thousand pounds.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Wow.
RG: I’d be terrified landing with a bloody Tallboy underneath.
HA: Yeah. Well, I don’t know if they brought them home and landed with them or whether they junked them somewhere else, you know but they didn’t need to use them on Walcheren Island.
RG: Actually sorry, one of the first chaps we interviewed — Arthur. He was, he did, he finished his tour in ‘45 and then was posted to an experimental unit experimenting with a blind landing aid which he told us a bit about and he said it was very very effective. He was there when the war ended.
HA: Yeah.
RG: But he, before he left his squadron he went down to the intelligence officer’s hut and nicked some of the photographs that he had taken himself on one of those raids and he gave us the photos and you could see the bombs striking the seawall. That was in Holland though. There was another one trying to break a dyke in Holland but at low level and — yeah. Arthur’s photos. Yeah. I forget what squadron he was with now but —
HA: The next two raids we did on Walcheren Island, they were both daylight, were on the big guns that were stopping the Canadians from going along the bank.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And stopping the navy probably from coming in as well although the estuary was mined and the navy had one go at it before and said, ‘No. It’s too dangerous.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, we were trying to bomb these big guns and they were pretty impervious to bombs I think but it ended up being a fairly hairy sort of a thing because we would go over and they’d say, ‘Oh yes, well the weather’s not too good. You might have to fly at six thousand,’ and you’d get there and have to fly at four thousand or something like that. And so, there was a lot of anti-aircraft fire.
RG: A lot of flak. Yeah.
HA: Small arms stuff even.
RG: Yeah. Four thousand feet. You’re not very high are you?
LD: I’ve read about bomb aimers keeping some of the Window and putting the Window on the bottom of their aircraft and lying on the Window to stop —
RG: A bit of armour.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Using the Window.
LD: To protect them from the flak.
HA: I’ve never heard of that.
LD: I I guess these were kind of individual things that people —
RG: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah
LD: Systems that people developed themselves.
RG: Did you have a mascot or a, you know, a token or anything.
HA: On the side of the plane.
RG: No. A personal one. A personal one.
HA: That one of us carried? No. None of us seem to have been too superstitious.
RG: Ok.
HA: A lot of them were but —
RG: Do you know of all the chaps we’ve spoken to most of them have said that? That they didn’t do it.
HA: No.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And yet you read such a lot about it don’t you?
RG: Yeah.
HA: About the only superstitious thing we did was we’d all pee on the tail wheel before we took off.
RG: [laughs] Yeah. I believe that was a common one.
LD: Was that very easy? In those flying suits.
HA: It was not. No. I can’t, I can’t ever remember using the toilet down the back of the plane during any of our trips.
RG: The Elsan.
HA: The pilot did it once.
LD: From the sound of things, you wouldn’t have wanted to use it if you could avoid it.
HA: Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you were above ten thousand feet you’d have your oxygen on for a start. So, you’d have to disconnect that. Get a hold of a portable oxygen bottle, go down, climb over the main spar which was about this high.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The pilot went down once on a daylight trip. I forget where it was to. So, I got to fly the plane for half an hour.
RG: Oh right.
HA: Straight and level.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And what kind of, we’ve heard about the — that the meal you’d had before an op. Was that still happening for you?
HA: Yes. Yes. But one of the early things you find out about being on an op on a night somebody would have said 2154 and that would be the number of gallons that a plane would hold and you’d say, ‘Oh well, it’s a long trip.’ And then the next thing they’d announce that the flying meal would be on at 3 o’clock. Something like that. And then a briefing at about 5 o’clock. That sort of thing. It would all lead up to actually take off time.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. It was quite a long period.
LD: So how far ahead would they kind of lock down the station? You know, set the security measures in place.
HA: I’m not too sure. I think it would probably be twelve, fifteen hours. Something like that.
LD: Right.
HA: Maybe a bit longer.
LD: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
LD: And did you guys get the wakey wakey pills too?
HA: Yeah. They gave them to us and I never used them once I don’t think. I don’t know if anybody else in the crew ever used them. Maybe the gunners did because they’d be tested on some of the long trips for staying awake.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: In the dark.
RG: Yeah.
LD: How did they do that? Test them,
HA: They’d be stressed.
RG: And tested as in stressed.
LD: Oh right. Ok. Not examined.
HA: I used the wrong word.
LD: No. No. That’s fine. I just took it the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah. Examined. Yeah. That’s what I meant.
RG: So, your crew. You had the same crew throughout all twenty nine?
HA: Throughout. Yeah. No replacements. No.
RG: Yeah. Have you got their names and so forth?
HA: Yeah.
RG: I mean you probably almost certainly remember them.
LD: Yeah. But it’s got all this. Maybe it’s written in there.
HA: Our pilot was Peter Gray-Buchannan. With a hyphen. His elder brother had done two tours as a rear gunner earlier.
RG: Wow.
HA: Over there.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Gosh. He was a lucky man wasn’t he?
HA: Have you heard of Doubleday and Brill?
RG: No.
HA: From Ganmain. They’re both fairly famous men. They both enlisted from Ganmain early in the war. Both went over there and did at least two tours. Maybe three. Both were wing commanders with the DSO and a couple of DFCs. That sort of thing. Billy Brill was CO of our squadron when we arrived. And I’ll tell you about the DFC now.
RG: Yes. I was just about to come to that eventually.
LD: Yes, it’s on my list.
HA: When we got to the squadron Bill called all eight of the new crews that had arrived from training into his office and amongst other things said, because we were all, nearly all flight sergeants, ‘All you flight sergeants who were thinking of applying for a commission don’t bother until you’ve done twenty trips. And then if you keep your nose clean you get recommended.’ He didn’t say, ‘Most of you won’t make twenty.’ [laughs] But anyway, that was his — so when I had done twenty trips I applied for a commission and Bill — Bill had been moved on and we had a new younger CO called Douglas. And he took it upon himself to sort of decide who was officer material and who wasn’t, sort of thing. One of the questions he asked me was, ‘Are you going to be any more use to the air force with a commission?’ And I said, ‘No. I can’t say that I will.’ I didn’t give him the right answers anyway and he didn’t recommend me.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So —
RG: That’s a fair answer though Bert. I’ve got to say. I have to say.
HA: When we got towards the end of our tour. I think probably only with one trip to go. It may have been two. The group captain called me in one day and said, ‘I’ve a bit of a problem. I’ve got one CO who recommends you fellas when you’ve done twenty trips and you’ve looked after yourself. And the other fella says yes or no to some of them.’ And he said, ‘The RAAF hierarchy requires that even if the CO says no it has to come to me. It’s not final.’
RG: Yeah.
HA: ‘So that’s my problem. Are you a good navigator?’ ‘Oh, I think so. I’ve lasted this long.’
LD: You’d done at least twenty trips.
RG: Yeah.
LD: You must be good.
HA: That was the end of the interview. So apparently on that day he approved me for a commission and so sometime later I got, in the mail, a letter saying that I’d got a DFC and I was a pilot officer.
LD: Oh.
RG: So, you didn’t make pilot officer or —
HA: Yeah.
RG: Oh. Ok
HA: Yeah. So I was a pilot officer dated from the day that I saw the group captain.
RG: Because as an airman you would have got the DFM wouldn’t you?
HA: Yeah.
RG: So, maybe they were going to give you the DFM and they went, ‘Oh God, he’s a pilot officer, we have to — [laughs] Did you get the DFM DFC for any particular —
HA: No.
RG: Just —
HA: I could show you the citation but it’s just a standard one that they gave to most people. The pilot got one with the same wording apparently.
RG: Right.
[pause]
HA: That’s fairly standard I think. There’d be hundreds of those. Came in a nice little case.
LD: Oh, it’s not there anymore though.
HA: It’s there.
RG: It’s on there.
LD: Oh, it’s a beautiful box isn’t it? It’s lovely.
HA: Yeah.
RG: You’ve got the Bomber Command clasp.
HA: Yes. I only got that one last year.
RG: It’s recent isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah.
HA: It was a bit of a hassle because I filled in all the forms and so forth. Sent it to England. And they sent it back, they sent back word, ‘No. You don’t apply there. You apply at Canberra.’ So, I had to go through it all again. Copies of stuff from the logbook and all that.
LD: So how, how was it presented to you?
HA: It was just sent in the mail. It wasn’t. There was no, no ceremony at all.
LD: Right.
RG: There’s an interesting thing on the back of it I’ve just noticed. It’s got on it that it was obviously first issued in 1918 and it’s got George Rex on it and then 1945 is just stamped in at the bottom.
HA: Yeah.
RG: That’s you know, that’s interesting that they keep — yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: I suppose originally when they did they first design they didn’t think they’d need it again.
HA: Yeah.
[pause]
HA: A local federal MP gave out those sort of things at one stage.
RG: Oh, the sixtieth. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. Just a medal .
RG: Yeah. World War Two. Yeah.
HA: And I was sitting with some other fellas that day and they had a Bomber Command medal on their chest. And I said, I asked them, I said, ‘Where did you get that?’ And they said, ‘We bought it.’ You can’t get a Bomber Command medal. They haggled with the government over there for years about getting one and they were never approved. The best they could do was a clasp. But apparently —
RG: Did Fighter Command get one? They got one, didn’t they? Fighter Command.
HA: I don’t know. Battle of Britain got one I think.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Yeah. The Bomber Command one. That sort of — there were problems with that with the political ramifications of Bomber Command. After the war.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: That became quite unpleasant.
HA: Yeah.
LD: To say the least.
HA: Yeah.
LD: I just checked out the squadron before we came.
HA: Yeah.
LD: And — yeah. So, you talked about the support of ground operations during the D-day landings at that time and so on. It said that 467 participated in the raids on Peenemunde.
HA: Yeah.
LD: Were you there then?
HA: No.
LD: Ok.
HA: It was a research station for the V2s and V1s.
RG: And V1s. Yeah.
LD: Yes. It was a fascinating raid. I’ve read a book about it. it’s pretty amazing. And were you involved in Operation Manna and bringing the POWs back from Europe?
HA: No.
LD: And dropping supplies and so on.
RG: No. You’d finished by then, hadn’t you? You finished in January.
HA: I’ll tell you why I wasn’t. As soon as I finished my tour our pilot got transferred to Transport Command and I got transferred to Training Command. And I was an instructor at a Con Unit.
RG: Whereabouts?
HA: At Wigsley. Near Waddington.
RG: Yeah. Ok.
HA: And we were getting crews ready to go to squadrons that were going to be in Tiger Force.
RG: Tiger Force. Yeah.
LD: Right. That’s what else I was going to ask about because it said 467 was involved in that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, I was an instructor right up until they dropped the atom bomb.
LD: Right. Right. Fair enough.
HA: Yeah.
RG: And were you still at Wigsley right to the end?
HA: Still at Wigsley.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And I stayed on at Wigsley for another couple of months after that and did a bit of ferrying. We ferried some Stirlings over to Northern Ireland and some Lancasters down to Southern Britain. Did a Cook’s Tour over some of the targets we’d been in Germany. But generally sort of loafed around.
RG: Cook’s tour.
HA: Alex talked about that. Yeah.
RG: Yeah. With a Cook’s Tour? Was that. Ok. Yeah. Well Alex was going over, he was a pilot. He’s living up at Orange. He was going over specifically to photograph the damage. Is that the same thing? Yeah.
HA: No. No. They just put a heap — a heap of interested fellas.
RG: It was literally a sightseeing tour.
HA: Like a real Cook’s Tour. I don’t know how many. A dozen or something like that in a Lancaster. I took my box brownie and took a few photographs.
RG: But did you land anywhere on the continent or just went out and came back or —?
HA: Somewhere I’ve got where we went. I think it’s probably in the logbook where we went.
RG: Oh. Bound to be. Yeah. Yeah. No. Alex said they were photographing the damage for analysis purposes. Cook’s tour. Base — Brentwood. [unclear] [ Cape Gris Nez, [ unclear] Aachen. Turin. Cologne. Krefeld, Duisberg — it was a tour wasn’t it? Ham. Munster. Wesel. Eindhoven.
LD: Ray, can you read them out loudly for the tape?
RG: Oh yes. Ok.
HA: Start at the with the ones inside Europe.
RG: Yeah. Well, Cape Gris Nez, [unclear] Maastricht. Aachen. Turin. Cologne. Krefeld. Duisburg. Essen. Ham. Munster. Wesel. Eindhoven. Turnhout. Ostende. [unclear] Calais. Cap Gris Nez,
LD: Wow.
RG: Yeah.
LD: That’s comprehensive.
HA: Yeah. It was good. Yeah.
RG: It must have been an odd feeling flying over and knowing that no one was going to shoot at you.
HA: Yeah. Oh yeah. We had a look at the Dortmund Ems Canal. I don’t know if that’s even mentioned there but —
RG: Dortmund. Not the canal itself is mentioned but no.
HA: The Dortmund Ems Canal was a place where Bomber Command did a lot of damage. I think we might have been one of the first raids where they actually breached the canal walls and let the water out and stranded the barges but there was ten attempts at it I think. Altogether. Some of them didn’t work. We did two on the Dortmund Ems Canal itself and another one the Ems Wesel Canal which was nearby. Both night-time raids. And because of its importance it was a very dangerous target to go to. The ack-ack was fierce. Had plenty of searchlights and usually we seemed to have to, for one reason or another, do orbits when we got to the target. Either because cloud was too — we had to come down through cloud to find it or one time they had trouble with the marking and so, they said, ‘Do an orbit until we can get it properly marked.’ ‘Do another orbit.’ ‘Now you can come and do it,’ sort of thing. That sort of business happened.
RG: Yeah.
HA: So, and we did, finally did a daylight one on New Year’s Day to the Dortmund Ems Canal. And I met a fella after the war, playing golf, who’d been in our same squadron and was on the same raid and they got one engine on fire for a start and I wrote in my logbook, log and chart of the day, not the logbook, I’ve got a lot of logs and charts.
RG: Oh ok.
LD: Wow.
HA: “Aircraft on the starboard beam going down on fire. “ Dot dot dot. “Gone.” That was them.
RG: Oh right. Ok.
HA: They didn’t go down. They got down to about four thousand feet and got control of the plane and started off staggering back. Then it got another engine on the same side on fire and kept going. This fella was the bomb aimer and he said he put a piece of rope around the rudder pedal to help the pilot try and keep it straight. They staggered along and got fired at repeatedly because they were on fire but they got as far as the front line. To where the Americans were. And all bailed out successfully.
RG: Wow. Ok.
HA: The pilot was last out and he managed to get out apparently and got a DSO for it. Straightaway.
RG: Well, it sounds like he deserved it too. Yeah. You also did a raid here on the Lützow the battleship?
HA: Oh yes that was probably something special.
RG: Yeah [unclear] special target.
[LD excuses herself]
RG: Well there’s a daytime raid. Bergen as well.
HA: Yeah. Bergen was an interesting one. That was one of the ones where they said, ‘Bert, you ought to come out and have a look at it.’ This target. Most targets I didn’t want to come out of my blackout curtains. But Bergen there was four thousand feet mountains.
RG: On either side.
HA: And in between there was a valley where I, as navigator, was able to get on a Gee position line and keep between the two mountains and come down because we were supposed to bomb at twelve thousand or something but they said come down to the cloud base. Four thousand. We came down to three thousand eight hundred I think before we got out of the clouds. And then we snuck up a little bit. Just skimming under the clouds to the target and they’re shooting from downstairs. They’re shooting —
RG: From above. Yeah. Wow.
HA: He said, ‘You ought to come and see this. We’re being shot at from above as well as below.’
RG: God. Return from Marston Moor. So yeah, I was going to ask that. On any of your trips did you come down somewhere else?
HA: Yeah.
RG: Come back
HA: Quite a few times. I don’t know how many. Two or three perhaps. You come back from Europe and Waddington and all the inland bases would be covered with fog.
RG: Ah ok.
HA: So, they send you somewhere on the coast to land there.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I remember one time we got in a tender then and they drove us back and got lost. And so, we wondered around. It was a really cold night. Looking for, looking for Waddington.
LD: That’s just what you need I imagine.
HA: No signs up anywhere, you know.
RG: I can just imagine some of the conversations you guys would have with the drivers of the tenders, you know. We got all the way back from Germany and you can’t find bloody [laughs] Waddington.
HA: I think one of the navigators finally got in the front with him [laughs] I remember there was a town with a five way intersection where he didn’t know which one to take and he went backwards and bumped into a lamppost and about two hours later he bumped into the same lamp post [laughs] So, we were lost.
LD: Oh dear. Might have been easier to leave it ‘til daytime.
HA: Other times you’d stay. We stayed the night at one of those places too and then just flew back the next day.
RG: Yeah. I had a friend in Canberra. He’s dead now. He was a pilot in Stirlings and then — he was a flight sergeant and his navigator was a sergeant and he said there was a notice up one day saying volunteers for special operations. Instant promotion. Up one rank and he thought, ‘This is a good idea. What do you reckon?’ It was Pathfinder force.
HA: Yeah.
RG: So he converted over to Lancs for that. But he said when he was on Stirlings they were doing a navigation exercise. And it was a daytime one and they flew over another field and one of the, one of the crew was an RAF guy. He lived in the village nearby and he said, ‘Skipper can you put us down there?’ He said. So, they did. They put him down at the airfield. Went and had lunch in the mess and went back out. Ducked off home to see his mum, you know. Came back. And he said it would have been all perfect. He said, ‘I was taxiing up the runway, got to the end to turn on to the runway and clipped his wingtip and broke the navigational knob at the end on a post at the end of the runway. So, when he got back he had to explain how he managed to break it in the air.
HA: Yeah. He was in big trouble.
RG: Did you ever do anything like that? Your —
HA: No.
RG: No.
HA: We came back from a trip one time. I forget which one it was but when we got back to Waddington you couldn’t see the circuit lights. You could see the runway. It was very bad visibility and so the pilot said, ‘I’ve got to land this like a Tiger Moth. We’ll just get around the runway and then come in like that.’
RG: Side.
HA: And the fella that was in the caravan with the green and red light, sort of thing, at the end of the runway. He said afterwards, he said, ‘You fellas almost took my caravan off. Coming down like that.’ And then they closed the, they closed the place down. After that everybody else had to go over to the coast.
RG: Bert could you explain, sorry. The circuit lights. Can you explain how that, that worked?
HA: Yeah. They would have the runway with the runway lights and then they’d have circuit lights going. I don’t know. Half a mile. A mile around or something like that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Almost touching somebody else’s.
LD: Right.
HA: ‘Cause there were so many of them.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And when you came back wanting to land you’d come in on the right hand side, sort of thing. And you’d call up the girl on the microphone. Tell them who you were. “Mozart dog to slagwort.” They’d say, ‘Go to channel two,’ or something like that. She’d tell you to stay at four thousand. So you’d go around again. Then she’d say, ‘Prepare to land.’ You’d go around. You’d have to say, ‘Wheels,’ at a certain place and come around and then lining up with the runway. You’d say, ‘Funnel.’
RG: Funnel.
HA: Yeah. And if you got the green light from the bloke in the caravan you could land.
RG: Right. Ok. Ok. So with the circuit it was the same diameter with the aircraft stacked in the altitude?
HA: Yeah. Yeah.
RG: So, you had a whole bunch of aircraft circling.
HA: She used to stack you up at four thousand or three thousand. Something like that.
RG: Ok.
HA: So, you wouldn’t run into one other.
RG: And you were all going anti clockwise, I guess.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Well it’s a very responsible position isn’t it?
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah. All done by WAAFs.
RG: Yeah. ‘Cause you would have had aircraft coming back and straggling back really wouldn’t you? All over the place.
HA: Yeah. Sometimes.
LD: And she would potentially be triaging to see who’s going to land before others because of problems.
HA: If somebody had damage they would get priority and they’d leave you stacked up there.
RG: Yeah. I heard, I heard, sorry, it was earlier in the war. I think it was about ‘42 that the Germans were using intruders raids. They tried to get in to the circuits. Get an intruder in to the circuit. A night fighter. Was that happening later in the —?
HA: Yes. When I was at Wigsley. I was duty navigator up in the tower one night and some ME110s came in with the bomber stream coming back and got across the coast without —
RG: Without being detected because they were in the stream. Yeah.
HA: And they came to Wigsley and a couple of the other Con Units. They shot down two training planes at Wigsley.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I don’t know how many they shot down altogether. Five or six I think. They went to Waddington and machine gunned the mess. Had a go at the bomb dump without [laughs] without any damage. Bomb dumps are hard to —
RG: Yeah. They’re well protected.
HA: That was some experience.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Because the people in the control tower — it was probably a duty pilot and a duty wireless op as well as a duty navigator and somebody in charge of it. A bit of a flap on. You know, what do you do with planes being shot down?
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Turn the runway lights off for a start.
RG: Yeah. And then what do you do with the stacked aircraft in the air. Redirect them?
HA: Tell them to look out.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah. That was, that was a strange one.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause I thought later in the war I wondered whether that still happened because the Germans had lost so many aircraft.
HA: Yeah. That would have been, that would have been probably March or something like that. 1945.
RG: Yeah. It was between January and May so, yeah. Wow. So still that late.
LD: So were they using FIDO for you to land with at night?
HA: Only on certain ‘dromes. We didn’t have it on every drome.
LD: Oh right.
HA: There was only a few FIDO ‘dromes.
LD: Yeah.
HA: It was terribly expensive.
LD: Oh, that’s, that’s what I thought. Looking at it it must have been just in terms of fuel.
RG: Did Waddington? Did Waddington have it?
HA: Used up hundreds of gallons of petrol.
RG: Waddington didn’t have it?
HA: No.
RG: No.
LD: No. I sort of wondered how effective it was too. With all that petrol burning there’d be smoke and everything as well as well as, as well as the lights.
HA: Probably turbulence. I should think it’s probably very difficult for pilots to land in.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Hence what, hence what Arthur was doing. Yeah. [unclear] he said it was very accurate by the way.
LD: Yeah.
RG: He said you could land a Lancaster almost hands off at night without any trouble whatsoever.
HA: Oh well.
RG: Then the war ended.
HA: Good planes to fly apparently.
RG: I’ve heard that. Yes. The pilot. A couple of pilots we’ve spoken to have said that. Yeah. They really liked them. Arthur all this stuff. This is obviously very precious. Have they got copies in Evans Head or anywhere else? Or are there any copies of it?
LD: I think there’s a book here too Rob.
RG: Oh. Ok.
LD: Yeah.
RG: Because what I was going to say was if we can manage to get copies of all this stuff — if you’re happy to do that. Put them in the archive as well.
HA: I’ve got the other logbook here somewhere I think. Yeah. I might have it down here. I have another logbook that you could take perhaps. It’s got all the stuff in it for the operations. I copied them out. I’ll find it for you. Probably downstairs somewhere.
RG: If we could copy them. I mean we could copy them here before we go and bring them back to you today.
HA: Well you’re welcome. Yeah.
RG: Yeah. Thank you. I guess we could go to the library or somewhere.
LD: Office Works. If they’re open.
HA: That book right there.
LD: This would be fabulous.
HA: I was telling you about the crew that got shot, well they caught on fire.
RG: Yes.
HA: Their navigator produced this book afterwards about their experiences.
LD: Oh. It’s not yours. I just saw it was from a navigator. I didn’t realise it wasn’t yours.
HA: No. It’s not mine. It’s about their crew’s experience and so forth.
RG: [unclear]
LD: Oh, is this is what you were talking about?
HA: It’s got little bits. See. That’s some of —
LD: A copy of the logbook.
HA: Some stuff out of my log and charts of the day. I lent it to him and he got it put it into the book.
LD: Is that what you were talking about with the copy of the logbook?
HA: No.
LD: Ok.
HA: No. That was just to emphasise that our tour — I think twenty four out of our twenty nine trips were just with 5 Group. We only did about five trips with, big trips with seven or eight hundred of Bomber Command.
LD: Oh yes. Oh you weren’t part of those really huge bomber streams then.
HA: Not as, not as a rule. Mostly we were just 5 Group.
LD: Yeah.
HA: And on some of those little daylight trips only half of 5 Group, you know, about a hundred planes.
LD: Right. That’s a big change from earlier in the war, isn’t it?
HA: Yeah. Yes.
LD: Yeah. Arthur. Sorry Bert. That’s Rob getting the names mixed up when we arrived.
RG: Yeah. Sorry. And I just called you Arthur a minute ago. Sorry about that.
LD: Very bad of me. What sort of experience did you have with the Committee of Adjustment. Did you, within —
HA: Were they the fellas that decided on LMF and that sort of thing?
LD: Yes. Yeah.
HA: Never had any experience of it. No. I heard about it.
RG: Oh, Committee of Adjustment were the guys who cleared the crews who were missing. Cleared their possessions and stuff out.
HA: Oh yes. Yeah. We had another crew in the same room as us. Sixty on one side and sixty on the other side. Both about the same time. And the navigator of the other crew was a good friend of mine because he came from Tooraweenah and he said I’m the only fella that’s ever, he’d ever met in the air force that had ever heard of Tooraweenah let alone been there and had a drink in his father’s pub. And they got shot down on their twentieth trip. So, we got woken up a couple of hours after we went to bed by the service police coming in and asking us if we would just mind looking on when they were sorting out their belongings.
RG: Witnessing that. Yeah.
HA: If there was anything that we particularly wanted to do something with to send to their parents or something like that. But we didn’t find anything that we wanted to. They just took the lot.
RG: Ok. So they just bundled everything together and took it.
HA: In the middle of the night sort of thing. It would have been 4 o’clock in the morning or something it was.
RG: Right. Ok. ‘Cause we’ve heard different — different stations seemed to do it very differently.
HA: Yeah. They were Air Force Military Police.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. ‘Cause other stations they used just airmen and —
LD: Sometimes the chaplain.
RG: Sometimes the chaplain. Yeah. Alex Jenkins, the pilot from Orange. He got shot down and he was the sole survivor. He was in a German military hospital, a Luftwaffe military hospital. Only for a few weeks actually before the British army overran the place in Holland and so he was sent back and he said when he got back all his kit was gone and he had to go down to London.
LD: At the dead meat factory, he described it as.
RG: Yeah. The dead meat factory with all these steel boxes with all the kit in it. He said there were just thousands of them in this warehouse. He had to go in and say, ‘That’s mine. Get it out.’ Yeah.
HA: There’s a few things that I’ve put aside that might be worth your while copying if you want to.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Because you could maybe photograph.
RG: Photograph these but — yeah.
LD: Those. Yeah.
RG: [what I could do with it] actually, we will take copies of those. Thanks. Bert, this chap because this is his book not yours is he still around or is he —
HA: No. He was four or five years older than me. I played golf with him for a few years here at Wagga.
RG: Right.
HA: But he’s gone now. He’d be a hundred, I think, nearly, now. Sam Nelson.
RG: Is there family around or anybody because what would be good is if we could get a copy of the book for the archive but the other thing too for books like this and we did it for another chap at Orange who was a navigator. An RAF guy. He’d written a book about his time in a prison camp and we’re trying to get these things into the National Library because they’ll take them just like that.
HA: You can take that as long as you like.
RG: Would it be alright though ‘cause it’s not you know.
HA: I’ve read it.
RG: No. I was thinking like, if the family might object. I don’t know. Should we notify the family that it’s? Is there any way to contact?
HA: The navigator himself. I think he’s probably gone.
RG: Yeah. He’s gone but — the family —
HA: I could tell you one little snippet about them. His crew were part RAF and part Australian.
RG: Yeah.
HA: At one time they had a reunion in Australia. Went over to Canberra. At the time that the G for George had just been refurbished.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Put back in to the museum and was all roped off. And they went up and I think Sam himself said to one of the attendants, ‘This is our crew that flew in Lancasters and we’ve just had a reunion. How about letting us get in?’ And they held it up and let them get in.
RG: Yeah. Actually, this chap from, Alex from Orange. He did the same thing. It was only – we spoke to him last year and only a month or so before he’d been down to the war memorial. It was the last time he could go down because he was getting a bit frail and he got down there and they put on a lift thing to get him up to the door. He got into the fuselage and he got up to the main spar and the two young guys were in attendance, and they said, ‘Do you want to go any further?’ And he said, ‘Yeah. I want to get over that main spar just one more time.’ And he said, ‘It took quite a while,’ he said, ‘But I got over the damned thing and he got up to the cockpit.’ [And he got the gun ] in the cockpit and he stood on it but on his way out he was coming down. He looked through one of the windows on the side and there’s an ME262 over in the corner. And that was the aircraft that shot him down. Not the same aircraft obviously but yeah and he said that was a bit of an odd feeling. But he said that anybody who had ever flown in Lancasters would understand that. That he just wanted to get over the main spar just once more. They had to help him back across but if he could only get over one way. You know. Yeah.
HA: I can remember — one thing I didn’t mention before. You asked me about damage to the plane. Quite a lot of holes sometimes. If they weren’t too big they just patched them over, you know, But down where the rear gunner slid in to his turret there was a piece of, probably a piece of plywood or something like that that he sat on and then slid in to his turret. One time we came back there was a hole the size of your fist through that. It would have missed the rear gunner by that much. And another time the pilot put his ‘chute in and they inspected it. I don’t know if they always inspected it. Probably they did but anyway there was a lump of shrapnel.
RG: Wedged in the parachute.
HA: In his seat parachute.
RG: And he was sitting on that.
HA: He was sitting on it. It didn’t get through the parachute [laughs]
RG: So none of your crew was ever wounded?
HA: No.
RG: No.
HA: No.
RG: Lucky.
HA: We were lucky.
RG: Yeah. So, with your time at Training Command — because the training losses were really high weren’t they? Guys killed in training. But in, was that with, was there a squadron that you were with at Wigsley or was it a training squadron that was, or just an ATU?
HA: I don’t think they called them a squadron. It was just a unit.
RG: Yeah. Ok. But did you lose any aircraft or any people under training? Apart from the ones shot down by the ME110s?
HA: I don’t think so. When we were on Stirlings we had a hairy experience. There had been a lot of rain and dirt alongsides of the runway was soft and there was a Stirling came in trying to land in a crosswind. Put one wheel off the runway, skidded out into the mud and we went out and helped to dig the bomb aimer out of his turret which he shouldn’t have been in because the mud had pushed him up over the guns.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: Like a bulldozer.
RG: Yeah.
LD: Not much space in there at the best of times is there?
HA: No. So the next day we’re doing a three engine practice landing in a Stirling with, obviously no bombs and not much petrol sort of thing. So you can understand what happened. You’re not supposed to come, once you get below a thousand feet for a three engine landing you should land. So our skipper’s coming in. Same cross wind. Knows about what happened the day before. Got down almost to the deck and said, ‘I’m going around again.’ Pushed the three throttles forward. Told the engineer to start the other engine. The navigator’s doing his usual job calling out the airspeed so he doesn’t have to worry about that.
RG: Yeah.
HA: The stalling speed is about eighty apparently and I’m calling out, ‘Sixty five.’ [laughs] ‘Sixty five.’ ‘Sixty five.’ The pilot’s hanging on.
RG: [laughs] Jesus.
HA: By the time I got to the end of the runway the other engine had started up and because we had flaps down too it took a while to get up in to the air again.
RG: To get the speed up. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: That was touch and go.
RG: Yes. I should say so. So, what about when you were — the other time in the UK between ops. On leave. Did you have any leave as such while you were there?
HA: Oh yes.
RG: On your squadron
HA: Yes. You normally got six days leave every six weeks while you were on ops.
RG: Oh ok. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: A bit less if a few others got killed because they had a waiting list, you know. It was your turn.
RG: Oh yes. I heard about that. Yes. Yes.
HA: So it might be only five weeks.
RG: Yeah. I’ve heard about that. So where did you do on your leaves? You went in to London obviously a few times.
HA: Oh I’ve been to London. Yeah. I went up to Edinburgh one time. Took a girl to the pictures one time in the middle of summer. I was thinking I might have a kiss afterwards. It was still bloody sunny. The sun was up at 9 o’clock 10 o’clock at night. They had double summer time on.
RG: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, you’re not trying to photograph that logbook are you?
LD: Yeah.
RG: Oh it’ll take forever.
LD: No. It wouldn’t take that long but I can’t, the shadow of the camera keeps, the shadow of the phone keeps going over it.
RG: Bert, if we could borrow this stuff.
HA: Yeah sure.
RG: We’ll photograph it and or copy it and then bring it all back to you today.
HA: Ok. That’s fine. Yeah.
RG: We can do that. That’s cool.
HA: I was going to say about leave.
RG: Leave. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
HA: I think after about our twenty trips we had leave and by that time I had a car and the skipper had a car. His was twenty pounds. Mine, I think, was thirty or something like that.
RG: What was yours?
HA: A Morris. Morris Minor. No. A bit bigger than a Morris Minor. It was a little narrow thing but a sedan with high windows.
RG: Oh yeah. Yeah.
HA: Morris something or other.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
HA: A Morris Ten I think it was called. He had a Ford. And we decided we would do some touring down towards Devon and that sort of thing. Together. So we found somebody. I think the engineer might have put us on to an aunt or a niece or something like that and an address we could give down there. Where you couldn’t get to it by train.
RG: Yeah.
HA: And so you could petrol coupons to go.
RG: Oh ok. I was wondering. I was going to ask you about that. Yeah.
HA: Yeah. So we took off and we stayed at places like Stow in the Wold.
LD: They have such funny names some of them don’t they?
HA: Yeah. So we had a nice tour down that way.
LD: Did you have any family in the UK or anything? That you were able to visit?
HA: No. No. Some people did. Like Charlwood.
RG: Charlwood. Yeah. He went to the town of Charlwood to look up his ancestors. Yeah.
HA: When we first got to Brighton the first lot of leave we had there from there they had a scheme called the Lady Ryder Scheme.
LD: Oh yes. I’ve heard of that.
HA: Where they would send you for a week to somebody just to let you settle in to Britain, sort of thing and so I was sent up to a place not far from Windsor to a lady’s who was Mrs Adams.
RG: There you go.
HA: That’s probably why they picked her.
RG: Yeah.
HA: When I got there she’s got this lovely two storey house and she said, ‘I’ll just show you around the house and you can look after yourself. I’ll give you the key because my daughter’s having a daughter or a son or something and I won’t be here. Just help yourself.’ I never saw her again sort of thing.
RG: A bit pointless wasn’t it really. Not helping you to settle you in but still.
HA: But she said, ‘If you go to this little village. I think it was Taplow or somewhere there’s a woman here who likes seeing Australians. Margaret Vyner. Was that the name of the, yeah that’s right. Margaret Vyner was this Australian actress who liked seeing Australians.
RG: Ah ok.
HA: So she gave me her address and I went around there and was made welcome and she was married to an English actor called Hugh Marlowe who was a big handsome fella who’d played The Saint in one of the movies.
RG: Oh ok. Yeah. Yeah.
HA: I hadn’t been there very long and in comes an army captain with a case of brandy that they knew. I can’t just pick his name out from memory now but he was a very famous English actor.
RG: Not David Niven.
HA: David Niven.
RG: You’re kidding.
LD: Oh really.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Right.
HA: Back from North Africa.
RG: Yeah. Yeah.
LD: Handsomest man in the universe I think.
HA: Yeah. A big name. So they got stuck in to the brandy and started talking about acting and all this sort of stuff and I said, you know, like, you don’t want me in the way. I snuck off back to Mrs Adam’s place.
RG: Oh well. You could say you met David Niven anyway.
HA: Yeah. And then the next day I decided to go to London. Got into a carriage. David Niven and a heap of others were in the same carriage. And he was there — [laughs] I said, ‘G’day,’ and he said, ‘G’day.’ And that was it [laughs}
LD: He’d had a big night had he?
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: What about demob? What happened with demob? So you were there for a couple of months. You were there right up to VJ Day you said. In Training Command.
HA: Yeah. Finally we, we got sent to Brighton to spend some time waiting for a ship to come home. Got in a game of hockey at one stage which was the first time I had a game of hockey over there. I was very keen on hockey at high school. We played at Bournemouth in snow. Sago snow or something. They used a red ball instead of a white one [laughs] But yeah we put in some time at Brighton and then finally got on the Aquitania.
RG: Oh yes. Ok.
HA: Came home around South Africa.
RG: So that was what September or something? Or October. In 1945 still though.
HA: Late 1945.
RG: Yeah.
HA: About November or December ’45 or something like that I think.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Fair bit of waiting around for a ship.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. They were pretty busy. A lot of people to move.
HA: I went home to Mendooran and somewhere on the demob business in Sydney they did aptitude tests and that sort of thing. IQ tests I suppose and said — [pause] It’s lunchtime.
Other: Yes.
HA: In a bit I suppose. Well these people are going to leave very shortly.
RG: We’ll finish this off very quickly and you can have your lunch. We’ll just finish it off very quickly now.
Other: Ok.
RG: We’ve got to the end now.
Other: That’s alright.
RG: Five — ten minutes.
RG: Yeah.
Other: He can talk.
HA: I’ve got a pretty good memory.
RG: You do actually. Yeah.
HA: Where were we up to?
RG: Aptitude tests and IQ tests.
HA: ‘Oh yes,’ they said, ‘You can go to university and do virtually what you want to. Whatever you like.’ I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t want to go back to the public service. That’s one thing. So I elected to do Ag Science. Which I did. And I think only forty of the one hundred or so people who lined up for it passed because half of them were ex-servicemen and the place was overcrowded and they weren’t — didn’t have the facilities for big numbers that they should have had.
RG: Whereabouts was that? Sorry. That was at —?
HA: Sydney Uni.
RG: Sydney Uni. You said you only did a year of that.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Yeah.
HA: I thought to myself it’s a four year course. I’d used up nearly all the money I’d kept from the end of the war. What am I going to do for the next three years? Talked to a couple of fellas who had just finished fourth year Ag Science. They said, ‘The best we seem to be able to do is get a job with the Agricultural Department at about eight pounds a week.’ I said, ‘No.’ Dad had just sold the farm because of the drought and he had a bit of spare money. He said, ‘I could stake you some the money to start share farming.’
RG: That’s you and your brother did that.
HA: So we went share farming and made some money.
RG: Yeah. Yeah. And that was it.
HA: That was it. I did a bit of truck driving and had a sports store and then went back to, oh, went back to uni by correspondence while I was teaching at Mudgee.
RG: Yeah.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Is there anything else you’d like to add or any questions for us?
HA: If you’d like to read through those you’ll find some interesting stuff. I’ve written some three pages in the last couple of days of things that I’ve sort of —
RG: Ok.
HA: Thought were important.
RG: Yeah. Well we’ll definitely, we’ll take copies of those definitely. But we’ll let you have your lunch now.
HA: Yeah.
RG: Thank you very much for that.
LD: Can you just sign this here. This is just to say that —
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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AAdamsHG170215
PAdamsHG1704
Title
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Interview with Herbert Adams
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:53:42 audio recording
Creator
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Rob Gray
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-02-15
Description
An account of the resource
Herbert Adams grew up in New South Wales Australia and joined the Air Training Corps as soon as it was established. He later joined the Royal Australian Air Force and after training, he completed a tour of operations as a navigator with 467 Squadron. He describes crewing up, flying operations in Lancasters and his experience of avoiding aerial attack. He recalls the use of navigational aids including Gee, API and H2S. He then became an instructor at RAF Wigsley. He discusses an occasion when Me 110s attacked the airfield. He talks of a Cook's Tour over Germany when others photographed the after effects of the war. He was demobilised back to New South Wales and later taught for the RAAF.
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Australia
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
England--Nottinghamshire
California--San Francisco
United States
California
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Carolyn Emery
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942
1943
1944
1945
467 Squadron
5 Group
aircrew
Anson
bombing
control caravan
Cook’s tour
crewing up
demobilisation
Distinguished Flying Cross
fuelling
Gee
ground personnel
H2S
Lancaster
Me 110
military living conditions
navigator
Operational Training Unit
promotion
RAF Lichfield
RAF Llandwrog
RAF Swinderby
RAF Waddington
RAF Wigsley
sanitation
service vehicle
Stirling
superstition
Tiger force
training
V-1
V-2
V-weapon
Wellington
Women’s Auxiliary Air Force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/207/3343/PBawdenHH1602.1.jpg
df5da1c4c93570824e924665aeffc7c5
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/207/3343/ABawdenHH160810.2.mp3
1b440b405014296da1ac20828edaf0e1
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bawden, Harvey Hayward
Harvey Hayward Bawden
Harvey H Bawden
Harvey Bawden
H H Bawden
H Bawden
Description
An account of the resource
One oral history interview with Warrant Officer Harvey Hayward Bawden (419835 Royal Australian Air Force). Harvey Bawden volunteered for the Royal Australian Air Force and after training in the United States, flew operations with 153 Squadron from RAF Scampton and 150 Squadron from RAF Hemswell as a mid-upper gunner. He was shot down and became a prisoner of war on his 29th operation.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-07-10
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bawden, HH
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
JB: It's the 10th of August 2016, and the interview, my interviewee is Harvey Bawden from xxxxxx, Bendigo, Victoria. Harvey's squadron was 150, rank of warrant officer, and his crew position was mid upper, er, upper mid gunner. Um, so, the date you enlisted, and where did you enlist?
HB: I enlisted in Bendigo in 1942.
JB: And from the home town? Your home town?
HB: Er, from the hill where I lived. I came from the Pyramid Hill [?] of Bendigo to enlist, and then of course I had to go to Melbourne for induction and all those things.
JB: And you went, what school did you go to?
HB: I went to the Bendigo Technical College.
JB: And as a civilian, your job? You were a farmer.
HB: I was a wool grower, yes.
JB: What made you volunteer for Bomber Command? [pause] I suppose firstly, what made you volunteer in the war?
HB: Oh well, it wasn't a big decision to make, my father had been a serviceman in the First World War, as a light horseman. Er, stories of service life had been part of my growing up, I suppose, but I, when I became eighteen of age I automatically enlisted, er, I enlisted in aircrew because I was interested in flight [pause] and [pause], yes, I, I was looking forward to the time when I was able to enlist.
JB: Were you aware of the high casualty rates?
HB: Well, er, war stories were not new to me. I knew a little bit about the war, but also there was war all around us, and it was an inevitability that able-bodied people would be involved, and, no, I didn't give it a great amount of consideration, I must confess, no.
JB: What about your family? I mean how did they feel about it? Your mum.
HB: Oh well, I don't suppose they were happy to see me enlist, but as I said before, my father was an ex-serviceman, and I got plenty of encouragement from the family, yes.
JB: So, where did you, where did you train, once you'd enlisted?
HB: Ah well, very briefly, oh first I went to Summers, which was what they called initial training school, where we were given a lot of theory and [pause] grounding in aircrew things, but it was really assessing, I think, the young people, to see if they could cram a lot of subjects in a very short time, and had the ability to go on quickly. I can remember particularly at Summers there were some sheds were used for classrooms, and we didn't walk between those sheds, we had to, we had to, actually go at the double, because they were short of time, and we were very young and fit. But after spending the time at Summers initial training school, if we passed the course we were, we were [pause], we were assigned to different channels of aircrew training. We all, of course, would like to have been made pilot, young pilots, and I was very fortunate that I was categorised for pilot training, and I was sent then to initial, er, to elementary flying training school at the Nowra in Victoria, where we were trained to fly Tiger Moths. And it was a wonderful period of my life, I had an interesting and capable instructor, and we enjoyed very much the period of flying, from the time of first solo until we were practising aerobatics and doing solo cross countries, it was a very exhilarating period of a young person's life. At the end of that course we were again categorised for singles or multis, which meant going on to be a fighter pilot if you went on singles, or bomber pilot if you were multis. And again I obtained what I wanted to have, and that was fighter pilot training on singles, and I was sent then to Uranquinty in New South Wales, flying on Wirraways, and sadly during that course, and when I felt quite capable and comfortable with the course, nine of us were taken off the course and told that we were to be re-mustered to bomber crews, and of course this was a most disturbing and, er, disappointing thing to happen. However, we, we were sent to Bradfield Park in New South Wales, and given a choice of what we would like to do in bomber crews. And I chose to be a gunner. And I was sent to Sale and I did a gunneries course, and very quickly I was sent to England, er, via America, to join in Bomber Command, which was the ultimate, I imagine, at the time. We had a very uncomfortable trip to England, it was wartime of course, and we travelled from Brisbane to San Francisco in the United States of America, in a liberty ship, and they were terrible things. They were the first all-welded boats, made during the war for transport purposes. They weren't very large and they were certainly very uncomfortable. But after about three weeks we, one morning, saw, coming through the mist, er, one of the American airships they had patrolling their coastline, and coming through the fog we came into the, into the port of San Francisco. And after a bit of leave in San Francisco, we were put on [unclear], on a very comfortable Pullman train, and we travelled right across the States by train to New York. It took about a week, and that was a very interesting journey. And we had a short period of leave in New York whilst-
JB: S- sorry Harvey, there's a lovely story about the Afro-American on the train. I'd really like, 'cause it says a lot about the Aussies, so-
HB: Ah, well, I've just got to break into that somehow. Yes, well, on this train we, they were very comfortable old train carriages, they were Pullman carriages, they were sleepers, and, er, we had an African-American person in each carriage, looking after us. And some of us spent most of the day on a observation carriage type thing, talking to this, er, old gentleman who was our, looking after us. He was very, very interesting, he'd been on the route for a long time, and he could give us a lot of interesting information on the country we were passing through, and the cities we came in to. And, er, quite an old gentleman. At the end of our journey to New York we took up a collection, and gave to him in appreciation for his looking after us so well on the trip. And the old chap became quite emotional, and he said he'd been hauling American troops for years on the trains, but he'd never ever received the respect and attention that he had with the Australians, and he also said that the money we had given him would be sufficient to buy his son, who was about to go to a university, a new overcoat, and that was a very pleasant thing [unclear] to our trip across the States. In New York we had some leave whilst we awaited the arrival of the Queen Elizabeth, who was, of course she was doing a regular trip between America and Britain on, [pause], on eh as a troop ship. Eventually she arrived, and we were five hundred Australian aircrew, all Australians, and we didn't make much difference to the, the seventeen thousand, I think it was, on board the Queen Elizabeth. But it was a, after our experience on the liberty ship, it was a very luxurious journey on board the Queen Elizabeth. We aircrew fellas, I think we had to share, er, we had cabins, but only cut down slightly on normal accommodation. The Queen Elizabeth wasn't escorted, she was too fast to travel in convoy, she travelled on a zigzag course relying on speed and all the electronics and [pause] she had on board. We, we eventually pulled into the, the, into Glasgow, the port of Glasgow. The Queen Elizabeth never came right into port, she remained out in the straits and we came off by lighters, this was so she could be quickly manoeuvred about in emergencies from bombing. In Glasgow we [pause]
JB: -at all. As good as gold.
HB: We boarded a troop train, in Glasgow, and came down, all the way down through, er, through Britain, to Brighton, which was our destination, of course, and all the aircrew arrivals were billeted in one of two major hotels in Brighton. Er, quite a luxurious arrival actually. And we were very pleased to get to Brighton, we were all very weary after all our travel. But at Brighton which was a pool, and a place where all aircrew were sorted into groups suitable for training, we were given disembarkation leave. There was a great feeling of haste there about everything. This disembarkation leave was very, very brief, and we were very quickly put on course for operational training courses, and we could see the reason this was about, there were many losses, heavy losses in Bomber Command, and the war was at a very positive time, but after a very brief leave in London we were sent on operational, to operational training units, where we crewed up, and we were given a welcome by the commanding officer at our training station, and told that we would be given two or three days to crew-0p by choice [coughs]. The British had learned, I think from experience, that you don't allocate bomber crews, you allow them to crew-up as crews themselves. A bomber crew had to be compatible [coughs], and we crewed up.
JB: How did that actually, did you just walk round and meet each other, or-?
HB: Yeah, we did. We just talked around the bar, and chatted in the mess, and in real life, I think, you usually find that like-minded people do group together, and sort themselves out a little. But in our case, the first man I saw there, met, was my old friend Kevin Key, who I'd known at initial training school at Summers in Melbourne, I knew no one else, nor did he know anyone else, but we were delighted to meet, and we said well, whatever happened, we'll be on the same crew, and from there we just gradually melted into er, different groups, and, er, Jim Gillies was the next one that we met. We decided that we'd be a fairly good combination, and we ended up with our six members, crew members, all Australians. We crewed up only with six men for a seven-man crew because in England the flight engineers were all English, and they allocated. But as a crew we then began our training at -. And it was a very busy time, of course, we got into the elementary flying programmes, and finally we moved onto flying in Wellington bombers, training. The Wellington had been a front-line bomber at the beginning of the war, it was a twin-engined, quite serviceable, old aircraft. And it was still being used a little bit in coastal patrols and such things, but its major usage was in training bomber crews, and it was a twin-engine aircraft. And so we did quite a lot of flying in Wellingtons, and then we migrated to Halifaxes, which was a four-engined bomber, of course, and quite a big step for the pilots, and the crews. And after a course in Halifaxes we moved onto Lancasters, and the Lancaster, of course, was the outstanding heavy bomber of World War Two. It was said that, yes, it was the supreme heavy bomber. Er, it carried a crew of seven. It carried a much heavier bomb load than the American Flying Fortress. We had a crew only of seven, where the American Flying Fortress had a crew of eleven. It was an exciting aircraft. They could take enormous punishment in service. But anyway, we did a course on Lancasters, cross countries, and under all sorts of conditions and situations, until the time came that we were proficient, and we were allocated to a squadron. And we were fortunate we felt, we were sent to 153 Squadron at Scampton, which was a very famous squadron, not far out of Lincoln city. It had become famous in the fact that the Dambuster crews trained there, in fact they took off for the bomb raids from Scampton. It was the squadron where Guy Gibson did his flying. And it was a very interesting place, and a very comfortable billet, and we were very happy to go there. And we flew our first operation from there, and in fact we flew four operations from Scampton. And then we were told that we were being posted to 150 Squadron at Hemswell. Hemswell was a new squadron at a new wartime 'drome. A little bit further away from Lincoln. And we were a bit sad, of course, leaving the comforting billets that we'd become used to at Scampton, but we soon got used to 150 Squadron at Hemswell. The amenities weren't quite as comfortable, perhaps, but we joined in Hemswell a mixed body of young flyers. We were the only full Australian crew flying there. There were odd Australians in mixed crews, but there were Canadians, there were some Canadians, incidentally the Canadians and the Australians seemed to have a great rapport, they seemed to fall into step very easily. Our closest companions were Canadians, but there were British, and there were Canadians, and there were some, a few, New Zealanders. There were two squadrons at Hemswell, 170 Squadron and 150 Squadron. We [pause] we settled, we settled into flight from Hemswell, it was some distance back into Lincoln, of course, but any time we had free we drove back in to Lincoln for our relaxation. Hemswell was surrounded by farming land, very attractive farming land, but there was no township, or anything of that nature, there. From then on it was a matter of routine, the bombing missions all over Germany. Intermittently we were given leave, they were, the Air Force was, very generous, I believe, in its allocation of leave to aircrews, and we, we used to get well away from London and relax in those periods when we were given leave. We would go north to Scotland, or into the Lakes District in England, and generally enjoy and relax very well. But it was always sad, we found, coming back to the squadron after having been on leave because inevitably we found vacant places. And you even felt a little bit guilty [pause] that you'd been away while these boys had gone.
JB: Do you want me to stop it a minute?
HB: [Coughs]
JB: Sorry mate.
HB: That's alright.
JB: Um, yeah, let’s stop it and think. [Rustles and beep]. And away you go.
HB: When we arrived at the squadron, our crew was assigned to a brand new Lancaster. Her code number was PB 853 PB, and she was affectionately known as P-Peter. The ground crew painted a huge bee dressed in Australian battledress, and sitting astride a bomb, on the side of the fuselage. During the period we flew her, all of her engines were replaced, and many of her panels were patched due to flak damage. When flying on operations we carried escape aids to help if we had to bail out in neutral countryside with a chance of escape to the neutral country. It was a flat box, plastic box [pause] we wore inside our battledress, and contained a beautiful silk map of Europe, some German money, some phrases cards, in several languages, and some vitamin pills, for-, and also some pills for purifying water, a razor, and many little things likely to be useful. Each member of a bomber crew carried a secret compass. There were several kinds of these, my little compass was in the base of a, of a collar stud. When I became a prisoner of the Germans I was interrogated twice, once by the Luftwaffe, and once by civilians. They removed everything I had, but did not find my little compass, and I still have it. The Royal Air Force flew mostly at night. Our crew flew twenty nine operations before we were shot down. Twenty four of them were at night, and five were in daylight. Because we usually flew at night, high altitude we had [sneezes], we had to wear oxygen masks, and electric inner suits for the gunners, because in those days we did not have pressurised aircraft, and it was very cold. Flying could be up to ten hours, depending on the location of the target. We were briefed for our twenty ninth operation one morning to bomb synthetic oil refineries at Harpennig, near Dortmund in the Ruhr. The Ruhr is the industrial centre of Germany where most of the heavy steel industry is, is located, including the mighty Krupps armament works. It was known to bomber crews as Happy Valley, we had been to the Ruhr cities a number of times, and had always found them heavily defended. At four o’clock in the afternoon we were over the city, and the oil refineries underneath us. After seeing the target map on the brief, briefing room wall that morning, I believed that without being complacent we were quietly optimistic that we would complete our tour of thirty operations. There was only one more to go after this. We had survived twenty eight arduous operations, all of them on German targets. We were the senior crew on the squadron, with a reputation for reliability and efficiency. At four o’clock in the afternoon we were indeed over the city, flying at eighteen thousand feet. We were in the midst of a heavy anti-aircraft barrage, with flak bursting from fifteen thousand to twenty thousand feet. The target was clearly visible, not only from the target indicators, but from the smoke of exploding bombs. As we turned into our bombing run there was a target, there was a target, when we [long pause]. You right?
JB: Yeah!
HB: As we turned into our bombing run there was a great explosion, and the aircraft began to shudder violently. Flak bursting under us had put two of our engines on fire. We were out of control and going into a steep descent. When the order was given to abandon the aircraft the last words we heard from Phil were, 'I can't hold her any more'. Jim Gillies and I believe that Jim Griffin was killed by the flak. His body was found, thrown clear of the aircraft, in the woods some kilometres from the target area. There was no panic, and six of the seven of us were able to bail out. I was the last to leave. My turret hydraulics were supplied from one of the engines that was on fire, and it had stopped with the guns on the beam. With no hydraulics I had to manually wind the turret to the fore and aft position to get out of it. This operation took several seconds. As I disconnected my oxygen and intercom lead the aircraft began to lurch violently from side to side. I was having great difficulty leaving the turret, and suddenly found myself on the floor of the fuselage below. I was able to clip my parachute onto my harness before I realised that my left femur was broken up near the hip. I crawled upwards to the door and rolled out, counted to three, and pulled my rip cord. There was a sudden jolt and I found myself suspended at about sixteen thousand feet. My first reaction was of relief. The enormity of the situation took a moment to sink in. [Pause.] There were aircraft passing high above me with flak bursting under them, and I began to feel an incredible sense of isolation and loneliness as I watched those Lancasters disappearing into the distance, going home to England. As I descended in the parachute I had time to think of many things. I thought about the dreaded telegram my father would receive from the Air Ministry, advising them that we were missing. I remember the, I remember the RAF issue Smith and Wesson revolver I had underneath my Mae West. I realised it would be a liability in the situation that I was about to face, and I pulled it out and let it drop. The last few hundred feet arrived too soon. I could see I was drifting over a building [pause] and as I landed, further down under the cabbages I could see people coming. They were armed with shovels and garden tools. They hesitated for a moment, and then rushed over to me, and my flying boots were pulled off. Women were squabbling over my parachute silk, and others were trying to remove my harness in order to have my flying clothes. I could not move because they were standing on my hands, stretched above my head. I couldn’t see clearly because mud was running into my eyes. I was not having a very good time when an old soldier in uniform with a sub-machine gun moved through the crowd. He cocked his weapon, and they fell back. He then stood over me, undoubtedly saving my life. Another armed old soldier then arrived, pushing a large wheelbarrow with two wheels on the front. These soldiers were Volkssturm, or Home Guard. The first old fellow loaded me onto this conveyance, and then with the first of them walking in front with his weapon, clearing a pathway, the other pushed me over the cobblestones, and I was cursed and spat upon by the justifiably irate citizens as we approached a tin building which appeared to be a military barracks. I was deposited upon a concrete floor within this building, and as they left me I thanked these two old soldiers. They had saved my life, though I never saw them again.
JB: No. Just my wife [pause]. No, you're all right. Keep, still going. [Pause.]
HB: Lying on my back, with nothing under my head, I tried not to make the slightest movement because the tortured thigh was swelling rapidly, no doubt due to having been twisted about so much during the rough handling I had received in the vegetable field. Sometime during the evening I was interrogated by some military people, with a Luftwaffe officer in charge. He had an RAAF, rather, an RAF aircrew identification card with him, and he showed me those many identification cards, from obviously RAF personnel who had been shot down in the region [pause]. He, he went through these with me, and I showed no recognition, even though I saw Jim Gillies, our bomb aimer, I saw his card come up. Throughout the night [pause] a light in the ceiling above my head was something to focus on, and in a sense it gave me some company. I was very cold, and my leg was swollen, swelling enormously, and in the morning my trouser leg was stretched to the limit. At this time a soldier came in to me with a plate of porridge, before depositing it on the concrete beside me he put it to his mouth drinking the liquid from it [pause]. Later in the morning a rough splint was strapped over my leg. I was put on a stretcher and moved to a small prison cell. I had not had time to become fully acquainted with this [telephone rings] -
JB: - you go.
HB: And later in the morning a rough splint was strapped over my leg, and I was put on a stretcher and moved into a small prison cell. I had not had time to become fully acquainted with this superior accommodation, when the door opened, and guards escorting Jim Gillies arrived. We chose not to recognise each other, but I am sure that our body language would have indicated the relief we felt in knowing that the other was alive. Jim was wearing a paper bandage around his head, testimony of his inhospitable reception, er, on landing. The following morning Jim and I were taken to an open truck. There was no seating for a group of female soldiers and the two armed guards escorting us. We travelled through Dortmund into the countryside where we stopped to pick up the body of an RAF fellow from a field. His parachute had not opened, and he was probably blown out of an exploding aircraft. This incident caused Jim and me to be a little uneasy. The truck had stopped at the side of the road, and two, the two guards guarding us jumped out, ordering Jim to follow. He was then given a stretcher to carry, and the three of them marched out across a field, and from my position on the floor I soon lost sight of them. However, I heard no gunshot, and was relieved soon, later, to see them return with Jim and one of the guards carrying the stretcher. And as we continued our journey, Jim, who was very tired, sat on the body after saying, 'I'm sure he wouldn't mind'. We were then able to confer freely together. The road was in very poor condition, and I was relieved when we arrived at a Luftwaffe fighter base where Jim Gillies was placed in cells with a number of Canadian and American POWs. The following day Jim Gillies and the other airmen was moved by train and truck through Germany ending up at Fallingbostel POW camp. After a night in a cell alone, I was taken some distance to a place called Kirchlinde, a large town. The hospital was on three levels, and I was placed on the top storey. Two American soldiers, and a blind English soldier, and I, were the only English-speaking prisoners. The few orderlies were French, and the main function of the establishment seemed to be the patching up of injured Russian prisoners of war from the work parties that we could see filling in bomb craters and clearing roads. After so much time without any medical attention whatsoever I was given some surgery at this place. Since breaking my femur the muscles of my leg had contracted and the broken ends of the bones were overlapping, and my leg was shortened and not very straight. The doctor put on [unclear] my shin bone and attempted some traction, but after so much delay it was futile. It turned out that we were being held in what was to become known as the Ruhr Pocket, where the German, where a German army refused to surrender. There were, we were under constant attack from the RAF bombing throughout the region at night, and a tactical air force in daytime. The Germans had established an anti-aircraft battery quite close to the factory, and whenever the air raid siren began to moan, we would brace ourselves for the sound of the guns as they sent of a barrage of flak. Inevitably, eventually it happened, and the second floor, storey, was also replaced, er reduced to rubble and by the cannon fire. Again I was moved downstairs into what still remained of the building. By this time I was the only prisoner still confined to a bed. I remember an SS soldier coming into the ward, where I remained alone. He had a Luger in his hand, and I was given the strong impression that he would have liked to use it. I was after all a considerable inconvenience. I was relieved when he left after making his inspection. By this time most of the Russians had disappeared, street fighting had been going on around for some time, and eventually the first floor [pause] became shattered. And after a period the whole of the building was untenable, and we were moved down to the cellars underneath. I lost sign, I lost sight of the English soldier, the blind English soldier, and I think he could not have survived. I was lying on a concrete floor with a very, with a very young soldier, German soldier on my left. He was from a signal unit and had been wounded in the street fighting. He spoke very good English and we began to talk. He told me about his work in the army and said that he'd often heard English pilots on his listening set, talking and swearing at each other. He quoted 'tally-ho' [pause]. He, he spoke very good English, and his name was Helmut Liever, and he'd grown up in the confines of Hitler Youth Movement, where every aspect of life was regimented. He told me that the German people were very afraid of Royal Air Force bombing, especially at night. He said that he had received, he told me that he had relatives who had survived the classic raid on Dresden. He went on to describe in detail the sequences of the operation. I did not tell him I had seen it all from twenty thousand feet. In contract, in contrast to Helmut Liever on my right there was a German soldier who had a dagger that, that he pulled out several times in a threatening manner. Fortunately he was out of reach. Eventually the two Americans and I experienced a dramatic change in our situation. Four heavily-armed American soldiers burst into our cellar at about midday. They expected to find more than the three of us. It was a wonderful reunion for the two Americans. When they found out that I was an Australian airman they could not have been more supportive. They told us, however, that we couldn't be taken away for some time, as there was street fighting going on outside. Before leaving they left some cigarettes and a long black bottle of very old wine, and asked if, they came to ask if there was anything they could do for me. And I said, 'well, that old German with the dagger is annoying me, get that dagger', which they did, and I still have it with me. Early in the evening a jeep arrived for us. I was strapped across the bonnet on a stretcher. A padre sat beside me, steadying me on the, and holding a rifle with a Red Cross flag tied to the barrel. It was a rough ride, dodging bomb craters and wrecked vehicles and fallen cables. Before leaving the cellar, I quietly passed some cigarettes to Helmut Liever. We travelled through what seemed a considerable distance until we left the city and arrived at an American army field hospital. It was surrounded by wheat fields, and it was a mobile unit under canvas. I was something of a curiosity with the nursing staff. Most of them were female and knew very little about Australia. They could not be enough, do enough for me, and were very kind. I was told my femur should be re-broken and reset in England. They enveloped my knee in plaster for the trip to come home. Er, could you switch it off for a minute?
LB: Yeah.
HB: I just [unclear] it's getting pretty dreary now, what would like-
LB: I think just talk about the crew, what about when-
HB: Ah, yes.
LB: Um, hang on, hang on, hang on. Er pause, we can do that one [noise]. Um, Harvey, what can you tell me about your crew, or your team?
HB: Er, I would do that with great pleasure, er, in recollections of our team, and our [coughs], Philip Henry Morris was an accomplished pilot, trained in Canada, and we both looked forward to a life in farming after the war. In September 1944 we decided to buy a car. We found one that suited us, a Riley Nine, in Gainsborough. It was a very, in very good condition except that the tyres were very bad, and were difficult to attain. But I drove it back to the station, and whenever we had a day off, I proceeded to teach Phil, Phil to drive. It was an amazing fact that this man who had flown three types of heavy bombers, and many light aircraft, had never learned to drive a motor car. [Pause.] After a great deal of changing and slipping and gear grinding, we were able to go back to Gainsborough and secure his licence. When we arrived back to 150 Squadron at Hemswell, our ground crew took over the maintenance of the car. For special occasions we would let them have it out for a night. In a miraculous manner the worn and worn-out tyres that we couldn't replace, were replaced with new ones, and whenever we drove out of the station, there would be petrol in the tank. John Clement Jay Davis, the flight engineer, was English, of course, er, was assigned to us after OTU, and flew with us in training, and [pause] Jo Davis was a young Londoner, who grew up in Surbiton. He bonded with us very quickly. He was capable, courageous, and always cheerful. He was delighted to be part of an Australian crew, and often said that he would be emigrating to Australia after the war. One of his sayings after a pint or two in the sergeants’ mess was, 'we are not here today, and gone tomorrow, we are here today, and gone tonight'. Kevin Anthony Key came from Melbourne. He and I were old friends from Initial Training School at Summers, and were delighted to come together on Operational Training Unit at Lichfield. He was a [pause] he was an inveterate gambler, and a very successful gambler. I remember one, him one evening pushing a large Royal Enfield motor bike back to the billet, that he'd just won from Canadians, playing cards [pause]. He was an excellent navigator, and he kept us on track during all those black nights over Germany. Robert Lockyear Masters was a schoolteacher prior to enlistment as a wireless operator in Australia. He grew up in Tumut in New South Wales, and shared our interests in the appearance and style of a little old pubs and churches we found whenever we were on leave, in England. A stained glass window in the Tumut Anglican church commemorates his life and service to his country. James Noel Griffin, our rear gunner, was a Queenslander from Brisbane. Jim was more of a solo person when going on leave. A very handsome young airman, he seemed to have the ability to attract the girl, a girl at every [unclear] awaiting leave. James Henry Gillies, our bomb aimer, was a large amiable young man who had played rugby union after leaving school. He had trained as a bomb aimer in Canada. As the two surviving members of our crew of seven, Jim and I shared some extreme experiences, and after all these years we remained very close bond. He was, he was a retired dentist, living in Sydney with his wife Bettina, not far from numerous adoring grandchildren. Our ground crew were very important to us. The ground crew worked around the clock, often under the stress of extreme cold, to keep the aircraft flying. They were the engine mechanics, who served our engines. They were the electricians, who looked after our electrical systems. They were the armourers who loaded our bomb bays, and checked our turrets and machine guns. They were the WAAF drivers, who met us when we landed, day or night to take us to headquarters. All these people were a part of our team. They were always cheerful, and they would do anything for us. The aircrew, I will repeat their names: Phil Morris, pilot, from Sydney, New South Wales; Kevin Key, navigator, from Melbourne, Victoria; Joe Davis, flight engineer, from London, United Kingdom; Bob Masters, wireless operator, from Tumut, New South Wales; Jim Gillies, bomb aimer, from Sydney, New South Wales; Harvey Bawden, mid upper gunner, from Pyramid Hill, Victoria; Jim Griffin, rear gunner, from Brisbane, Queensland. Phil Morris, Kevin Key, John Davis, Bob Masters and Jim Griffin are buried in a war cemetery in the Reichswald Forest, near Kleve in Germany. A stone monument at the entrance to this cemetery carries this inscription 'The land on which this cemetery stands is the gift of the German people, who are [pause] for the perpetual resting place for the sailors, soldiers and airmen who are honoured here'. Harvey Bawden, Bendigo.
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ABawdenHH160810
Title
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Interview with Harvey Hayward Bawden
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:05:55 audio recording
Creator
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John Bowden
Date
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2016-08-10
Description
An account of the resource
Harvey Bawden, from Bendigo, Victoria, Australia, volunteered for the Royal Australian Air Force in 1942 at the age of eighteen. After initial training school and assessment as an air gunner, he was shipped to England via the United States. After crewing up and training on heavy bombers, his first posting was to 153 Squadron at RAF Scampton, from where he flew four operations. He was then posted to 150 Squadron at RAF Hemswell. On their 29th operation, they were hit by flak. Bawden’s leg was broken before he bailed out, and he describes the experience of bailing out, interrogation and treatment in a military hospital in some detail. Only he and one other crew member survived. He was rescued by advancing American forces clearing the Ruhr Pocket. Bawden pays tribute to his fellow crew members, buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery, and the ground crew who supported them.
Contributor
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Peter Adams
Mal Prissick
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Australia
Germany
Great Britain
United States
England--Lincolnshire
Victoria--Bendigo
California--San Francisco
United States
Victoria
California
Temporal Coverage
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1942
1943
1944
1945
150 Squadron
153 Squadron
air gunner
aircrew
anti-aircraft fire
bale out
bombing
bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945)
crewing up
final resting place
ground crew
ground personnel
Halifax
Lancaster
mechanics engine
memorial
nose art
prisoner of war
RAF Hemswell
RAF Scampton
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/331/3491/PSouthwellDE1603.1.jpg
14aae2a01070e096fa9c00a5c57a4ace
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/331/3491/ASouthwellDE160424.2.mp3
bd5f88b470f50c82d0fece440095f478
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Southwell, Don
Donald Edward Southwell
Donald E Southwell
Donald Southwell
D E Southwell
D Southwell
Description
An account of the resource
10 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer Donald Edward "Don" Southwell (b. 1924 - 2019, 423987 Royal Australian Air Force), documents including a navigation chart, and six photographs. He flew operations as a navigator with 463 and 467 Squadrons.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Don Southwell and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-04-24
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
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Southwell, DE
Access Rights
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Permission granted for commercial projects
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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DES: [unclear] have you?
AP: My little question sheet.
DES: Oh, good, [unclear] you should have given it to me before.
AP: No, no, no.
DES: [laughs]
AP: So what I do, uhm, because of this little adapter, if I unplug it, the careful tuned thing dies and it gets embarrassing cause it never works. So, instead I have to plug in earphones, so that I can check cause this is a little splitter. I can plug in earphones so that I can listen to it, because if I just try on the speaker, it goes out the earphones so, anyway. It works now, that’ the most important thing, I’ve had a couple of interviews where I had to use the little microphone built in here cause I never know if this thing’s working. Very very [unclear].
DES: I didn’t know there was a mike in those. See, I use one of those all the time. [unclear]
AP: Well, some of them, some of them do, so there is actually a little camera up here, there is a little microphone there, so it is like for web cam, is not for very good quality and it picks up all the noise that’s around, this seems to be more, uhm, localised to adjust your voice, which [unclear] in the recording. I did one of those with a bloke, uhm, Jack Bell, who, he was shot down in Libya, uhm, he’s 98, he was shot down in Libya in 1942 and spent the rest of the war as prisoner, ’43, very early [unclear].
DES: Ah, prisoner.
AP: 42 [unclear]
DES: In Germany?
AP: Uhm, in Italy and then in Germany.
DES: Ah.
AP: Uhm, and the house next door was actually being demolished at the time we did the interview. In the background you can hear a little bit of it, but not very much. So, for a twenty dollar E-bay special, they are pretty good. Anyway, if you are comfortable and ready to [unclear]
DES: Yeah.
AP: All this is, as you know, IBCC interview, uhm, basically we just have a chat. Uhm, I’ve got a sort of list of questions to get us started, but basically I’ll let you run and we go wherever we go and then we might come back and fill in gaps, all that sort of stuff.
DES: You edit it. Yeah.
AP: Yeah, uhm, we just go until one of us begs for mercy basically. I know what you are like, so it could be for a while [laughs].
DES: No, no, no, it’s not right. No, I, whenever this comes up and I’m in a group, I know the people who’ve got all the interesting stories. I’ve been doing this since Australia all over.
AP: No, I.
DES: Down in, [unclear] I’m gonna write him a letter too, but, uh, Ian McNamara and uh he was, uhm, I was all, I did directing, at, down there, I got the, we got this bloke and got this bloke, got that bloke, got that bloke, he’s gonna get all interesting blokes, you know, I knew [unclear] too long [laughs] and they didn’t want me [laughs] Yeah.
AP: Very good. Anyway, uhm, so, look, the shortest interview I’ve done went from forty five minutes long to three and a half hours or so, you know, whenever we get, we get, it’s quite ok. As I said, there’s a list of questions to sort to start of, so
DES: Forty five minutes, [unclear]
AP: That’s very short one, that was very hard because I had to keep asking questions to. Uhm, my favourite one.
DES: You’d might have to do that.
AP: We’ll see what happens when I ask the first question, that’s always the same question I start with and once the opening response went for about ten words, the longest one has been an hour and fifty before I had to say anything else. Which
DES: [unclear]
AP: It’s astonishing, it’s really really good. Anyway, so, uhm, I start off with a little spiel, so, kick off with that now, just to sort of set the time and the place, uh, so, we are recording and it looks good. So, this interview for the International Bomber Command Centre is with Don Southwell, who was a 463 Squadron navigator at the tail end of World War Two. Interview is taking place at Don’s home in St Ives in Sydney, it’s the 24th of April, I should know that, it’s their [unclear] day, my name is Adam Purcell. Uhm, so, as usual, Don, we will start with the normal question, can you tell me something of your early life, growing up, what you did before the war.
DES: Yes, I can certainly do that. Ehm, I was born in Croydon, in New South Wales, in number 10, Hardidge [?] Street as a matter of fact and I was the third child of my mother Cathy. Ehm, I had my brother Brian, my sister and myself, we were four years between each of us and we lived in Croydon, in Sydney. My father died when I was thirty, when he was thirty five and my mother brought us all up to the [unclear], my, I went to school in [unclear] High school and I had, oh I had a job when I left high school. I was, uhm, my first job was at, uhm, RKO Radio Pictures and I was there for about eighteen months and uhm, my mother thought that this picture business wasn’t the sort of place that [laughs] her son should be spending his career in. So, she started to work on various people and I finished up with a job at the MLC. At the MLC, at this particular stage, they only took you with the leaving certificate. My mum couldn’t afford to keep me on the leaving, so, while my brother and sister went to Fort Street High School and did the leaving, uhm, my mum couldn’t afford it. Anyway, we, I went to RKO Radio Pictures and we, uhm, I lasted there and, uhm, I got the job at the MLC and my sister actually worked and that’s how I probably had a little bit of influence and they didn’t want to appoint me first of all but I reached the stage where there weren’t getting many men in because of the war and the war had started and this was in 1941. And so, uhm, I was very fortunate to get that job because I remind there laws about 90 and that’s not a jag either, this is quite true and I [unclear], I have to write, yeah, uh, I was there for eighteen months and the war came and I’d already enlisted, I’d already joined the air training corps, it was 24 Squadron at Ashfield and under control of squadron leader Whitehurst and he had the grads there and we did all the courses for the air training corps and I was also an ARP warden on my bike and I had an ARP band on my arm, patrolling the streets at night to make sure the people were keeping to the blackout rules. I used to sit in those, sit at the top of the town hall at Ashfield and looking for [laughs] Japanese planes coming over. We didn’t get any Japanese planes but we had to report all things that were going in there and then I got the call up for the army. Because I was eighteen the army called me up and because I was in the air force, I had already been in the air training corps it didn’t make any difference so I went up to the infantry training battalion at Dubbo in central New South Wales and, uhm, I was there for about three weeks, while the rifle regiment came in on a motorbike and looking for [unclear] and took me back to the, you know, the orderly room, I was put on a train to Sydney, I was discharged from the army and sent down to Woolloomooloo. In Woolloomooloo was the air force, uhm, recruiting depot and there we did the medical tests and so forth and I was then posted off and I to number nine Glebe Island [?], which is a wharf in Sydney, I went in as an aircrew, I was called, the air force had so many people for aircrew that they couldn’t cope with them at a particular time and they made us air crew guards and I served for three months in Sydney, there’s an aircrew guard, some of them got posted all the way from New South Wales but I was fortunate enough, I caught number nine Glebe Island, where we guarded little beds, belonged to the air force and so forth and we also did jobs working on the wharves and I was part of the secret war people talk about, that the wharfies continually being out on strike and so forth and they asked the, they sent one of us down to do various jobs on the wharves because later all the supplies were going up to New Guinea, was on a ship called the Marino and it belonged under contract to the air force and now, the wharfies were pilfering stuff from this convoys that were going up to the, the trips up in New Guinea, they were pilfering stuff there and so we had a, we were put, what do you call it? A revolver, a Smith and Wesson revolver around their waists and I did stay for one night, I’d be inside the wharf for one day, inside the wharf in the stores where they had all the stuff there laying. We had a guard on the door, a guard on the, uhm, where the crane came down and picked the, uhm, supplies up, one on top on board the ship and one down in the hold. And we virtually stopped the pilfering in the, but there was a great war against the wharfies in those particular days but a very interesting book has been written about the secret war and it’s not only happened there, but it happened in the army and all around the place. So, that was just a little side set up, while I was waiting to go to aircrew. I was then called up to number 2 ITS in Bradfield Park, to go and do my initial training school and, uhm, so began my career in the air force. Then, do you want me to go further?
AP: Yeah, can you keep going as [unclear].
DES: I’m in the air force then, ok.
AP: Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Absolutely.
DES: We’re in Bradfield Park and Bradfield Park was the centre of two ITS and we did the normal parades on the [unclear] rid marches, uhm, we did cross country runs, we did all sorts of subjects that were pertinent to air crew and so forth, meteorology, all that sort of business and we, uhm, that took us about three weeks to do that and then I was categorised as a pilot. Cause I wanted to be a pilot because my brother was a pilot and so they made me a pilot. They sent me off to number 8, I think it is number 8, EFTS at Narrandera and so began my career, started my career as a pilot. The time limit for getting through, through the school was you had to go solo in twelve hours, now came twelve hours and I hadn’t gone solo and the, uhm, my instructor said; ‘Come on, Don, we gotta get you through this’ and we were operating from a little satellite area, outside of Narrandera, he said you gotta go up and go solo today [laughs]. So, I worked out all what I had to do in the circuit and so forth and I went up on the, took off, made a nice take off but I got the wind changed and then [laughs], I didn’t know the wind had changed and I’m doing the circuit on the basis of when I took off, I did the left-hand circuit and so forth and coming, all of a sudden there is a Tiger Moth coming up beside me, it was my instructor and he was pointing down to the wind sock and I didn’t know what he was talking about, you know, so I didn’t, I just went up and landed, I did a beautiful crosswind landing, it was a good crosswind landing but that’s the last time I, I think I lasted for another half an hour or so flying and then they decided that I, you know, I hadn’t gone in twelve hours, didn’t look like it, so they scrubbed me, I was scrubbed and that was a terrible thing to happen to me, to be scrubbed, I wanted so much to be like my brother who could fly before the war. And, so, uh, I was then, I thought, oh, I’ll have it now the air crew but they transferred me. The boy that got a B in mathematics 1 and mathematics 2, the intermediate, they transferred me to embarkation depot as a navigator and so, but I, and then I stayed at the, I came from Narrandera back to Sydney and I stayed there at the embarkation depot and uhm, just as on the side, we used to, get my [unclear] at Burwood, that was a [unclear] about twenty minute train ride from Chatswood, we used to have a night down, tucked down under the barbed wire, get down a lady game driver, was not a lady game driver this near, walk up to take off, picked to be kept, seen the fiver air crew, when I say we there were a lot of fellows doing this, and we get, I get the train to Han, I spend the night at Ham (or Han), get out of bed at about five o’clock, then come back and up [unclear] at five o’clock ready for parade. And so that, that didn’t go on for long of course, but I did my, that was our waiting game but of course, we were going overseas an therefore we couldn’t leave Australia until we were nineteen, that was a government rule, they just couldn’t, you couldn’t leave, you couldn’t get out, be transferred out of Australia unless you were nineteen. So, I kept going, I was before I turned nineteen, I went to embarkation depot, so I kept [unclear] just about every day reminding them that I was, I’ll be nineteen on the seventeenth of April. Anyway, to cut a long story short, we were bound on a train up to, from Central Railway, we went up to Queensland and transferred to Kalinga and the army came, was a big army came and we slept in tents, oh, by the way, the train trip was terrible, we were in, we had to sit up or some fellows were sitting up, lying down on in the luggage racks upstairs but we had a terrible trip that night, that train, they put us like cattle in there, and so we got up to Brisbane to Kalinga and we had to wait there for our ship and that was somewhere around the first or second of July in 1943, ’43, yeah ’43, and we uhm, one night we had the cars or the truck all arrived and took us down to the boat, was the Noordam, was the United States army transport going back to San Francisco, empty or as empty, except for us air force, because they’ve been bringing all those hundreds of thousands of American troops over to Australia for the Pacific War and uhm, so uhm, we set sail from Brisbane heading or Morton Bay and then shortly about two or three hours out from Brisbane we [unclear] and we wonder what we were doing because of the Japanese submarines and all that sort of thing and it was the, only about three or four days before, or, yeah must have been before, we have to because the Japanese had sunk the hospital ship, the, the, the, the, because they sunk one of their hospital ships and we had two minutes of silence we expected to be torpedoed [unclear] and we headed on our way to, I think it took us about eighteen days to get to San Francisco and never been past Hornsby, past Wollongong, never seen the Blue Mountains, I hadn’t been out to the parks to the, in the [unclear] and to Dubbo in the army and, uhm, here I was, just coming into San Francisco harbour and so I made sure I was at the front of the ship and I never left that ship till about two o’clock in the afternoon, we came by, saw the Golden Gate bridge [unclear] I was nineteen years of age and we heard the, we saw the [unclear] prison and the San Francisco bridge and we landed at Oakland and from there we were put on a train and sent up to, up the uhm, West Coast of America, uh, to Vancouver, where we switched trains for our trip on Canadian national Railways, was a steam, was an old-burner train and we went to, went on our way through the Canadian Rockies to Edmonton and slightly north of Calgary at and the thing that strikes us, was the difference in travelling in Australia in the cattle trucks, where we had, uhm, they weren’t there for our Americans in those days but they were there for Americans were waiting on us, we had sleepers, everything was laid on, the Canadian people, the Canadian government were fantastic, and here we were, we were only leading aircraftsmen, we weren’t even sergeants, and so anyway, we got to Edmonton, I went to the, uhm, manning depot, manning depot and I have a big photo in my home here of the, uhm, on one of our parades, you can pick me out in the [unclear], we had the morning [unclear], you can pick out the Australians because of their blue uniforms, all the rest wore khaki, was in summertime, but anyway, you could pick us out, pick me out with the manning depot and then I was transferred from there, which was just across the road, really, to number 2 AOS Edmonton, that’s where I did my navigation course. My first trip on navigation course was a real, [laugh], was a real did last as far as I was concerned but I’ll tell you about it. We, uhm, I had a, uhm, another navigator, we were flying Avro Ansons and, well, just digress slightly on our Avro Ansons and then poor our navigator had to wind the wheels of the Anson, Avro Anson up, a hundred and forty-nine times to get the wheels up, that was their job for, just straight on take-off. Anyway, we went on from this first navigation trip, I had a second navigator with me, who was supposed to be giving me fixes and that sort of thing and I got lost and so while I was suggesting we do, the pilots by the way were all civilians, they were not in the air force, they were under civilian contract and that was [unclear] Canada and, uhm, Maxi Titlebomb his name was and he suggested we get out and have a look at the railway sign [laughs] so we went down to the railway station and were at a sort of place called Wetaskiwin, not far out of Edmonton, but it was Wetaskiwin so I proceeded to [unclear] I knew where I was, I got me air plucked for Wetaskiwin and went up and we continued on our course, I expected to be scrubbed straight off on that score but I wasn’t, no, they didn’t, was the best thing that ever happened to me because I made a mistake on my first trip, you were never, the navigators rule was never to drop your air plot and I dropped me air plot because if you kept your air plot [unclear] end your life to get a position, make some sort of, where you think it was but you, you’d always got the opportunity to do that and, so a navigator never had to, should never drop his air plot. But anyway I finished up, was about six months course, was about six months and we, incidentally we had to, people talk about the weather these days, it was forty degrees, one night it was forty degrees below zero, now was in Fahrenheit was thirty-two degrees and so was seventy-two degrees of frost. We had to warm the aircraft up in the hangers before we went out and we had winds, sometimes we had headwinds where we were going backwards up in the north part of Canada [laughs], you know, very, very frightening for a nineteen year old [laughs] that didn’t know a lot about navigation, but we got through all of it and we, I finished up with a reasonable max coming out of my course, I was always better at the air plot than I was, I always had trouble with my theory things, wasn’t very good on the theory but I was, even if I say so I was reasonable as a navigator. And so we got our wings there and was around December 1943 and I haven’t been out to find many [unclear] since I came across my fellows book called Navigator Brothers the other day and I wrote to the author, because in there was a photo of one of the group that was having their passing air parade, cause a big deal the passing air parade, the Canadians really put on all their pomp and ceremony for their passing air parade. The, uhm, uh, yes, we got our wings and we proceeded then to go to, uhm, to uhm, we’d being posted to Montreal [unclear] I just had a thought, we went to Montreal and we had to wait a bit to go over to England and, you know, during my stay in Montreal, we stayed at a place called the Sheen, we were sent off for six weeks up to a ski lodge, so they didn’t have a boat to take us over to England so they sent us, was about thirty of us, we were all sent up to a ski lodge, luxurious place for, you know, a couple of weeks, two or three weeks, we learned to ski, we learned to use the tennis rackets on the feet to walk in the snow, we learned to ice skate, to do all sorts of things, it was wonderful. Anyway, we got back from, we went back to the Sheen and I found out that my brother, was, uhm, who was a pilot in the Middle East and an instructor at Lichfield, which would probably entirely they said to be Bomber Command.
AP: Absolutely.
DES: But he, uh, I found out he was coming over on his way home to Australia having completed his tour, he was transferred back to Australia but on his way he had to go, he was [unclear] to fly back with a brand new Liberator and Bryan was in New York with his crew, but they’d been flying Liberators although a lot of these fellows who did this were Lancaster pilots, cause there’s two hundred of them eventually, and then Bryan and I we shared a room in Belmont Plaza Hotel in New York for a couple of days. Then he went on his way home or to California, I should say, where he did three months before he flew off back to Australia, If you like I might talk about that later on. But, then I went back to Montreal and we then got advised that a ship was waiting for us in Halifax, so we did a night trip to Halifax from Montreal and we joined the maiden [?] vessel called, the maiden [?] vessel called the Andes, was a flat bottom boat, a, yeah, a 20000-tonner I suppose, but it was very fast and on that boat we had a complete Canadian armoured division, were ten thousand fellows with their tanks and about a hundred aircrew, [unclear] pilots joining there, there were navigators, there were wireless operators, there was bomb aimers, all been trained in Canada and sending us all over and so we went over there on our own, we didn’t go in a convoy, we went on our own, took us about seven days, we went up towards the North Pole and [unclear] in Liverpool but we didn’t have any, uhm, we didn’t have any [unclear] things happening to us except that we, was a [unclear] taking more than seven days but it was a fast trip was what we did and we weren’t allowed about decks at night time, so, at night time you couldn’t go up on deck no matter what it was because people had a habit of lighting cigarettes and submarines could catch you but some of these, the Queen Elizabeth and the Queen Mary, they were too fast for the submarines so they, we zig-zagged all the way across and we arrived in Liverpool and uhm, we uhm, got, we arrived nearly as the morning met by the salvation army, they gave us food and so forth, we went in the big tunnel out of Liverpool and came down to, went down to Brighton PDRC and that’s where I started my first, uhm, flying, my first events in England.
AP: What did you?
DES: Now.
AP: What did you think of wartime England when you first got there?
DES: When?
AP: As a nineteen year old Australian, you are now in wartime England. What?
DES: What I thought of it? Well, uhm, when I first got there I, we went by train down to, we skirted to London, we went to, Brighton was a lovely place but, we were, there was the IFF that had taken over the uhm, the uhm, the Metropole and the, the Metropole and the, the two big hotels, I have just forgotten their names but it was where Margaret Thatcher was blown up later on, she escaped the bombing near in Brighton some years later but we went straight down so, we didn’t see much of the, uhm, the countryside. We were billeted out from the hotels, the [unclear] were billeted out in homes quite near the hotel but we didn’t see any great, you know, people had their coupons, that sort of thing and I saw a lot of it after on my first leave to London, then was when I, you know, realised how terrible things were but there in Brighton, where we were, all the beaches were, they’re all pebble stones not sand all the beaches were mined so you couldn’t go there. If anybody knows Brighton as the Brighton pier, and then it had been chopped in half purposely and the bottom half was used by the air force to, but we used to go and gonna get paid there, we used to go and collect the money on a Thursday or whatever it was, and so uhm, we didn’t see, uhm, in all fairness, you know, I didn’t see, you know, it was, I wouldn’t say, you know, nasty looking, you know, there wasn’t, there was no visible damage that I saw down in Brighton but, my mother and father both came out from England in 1912 so I had relations to go to in England and so I was, uhm, my first leave I had when I went to, I went to a place called Maidstone where my mother was born and uhm, I went to see uncle Ted and auntie Gladys who became [unclear] mother while I was there and I stayed with them and they had a big two story home. He was the general manager of Fremlin’s Brewery, which was a big brewery [laughs] in London and Maidstone, and was a white, the emblem was a white elephant on all the London busses and he was the general manager of this [unclear] and so naturally I was well looked after. If they wanted some meat, if they wanted a steak or some, which was very rare, she takes it, make sure you keep the uniform on and we’ll go down to the butchers today and she, he’s my cousin from Australia you know and they’d toss out some special food for us. But uhm, they seemed to live pretty well you know I think they were, you had to be careful with petrol rationing and that sort of thing but in the group that I sort of as, you know, these people were part of, put in mind, you know, reasonably well off as people and, but she was a real mother to me, she used to take me round on, I always used to go there on leave but she used to take me round and onto, show me the Rochester cathedral or Ramsgate, where my mother used to go and swim as she was a kid and so forth, you know, and I’ve met all my relations but I, I don’t have any, it’s only when later on I went down when I was in the middle of the buzz bombs and the V2 rockets that I realised, you know, how terrible that, uh, what the Germans had done to our people here in London and, you know, when you see streets that are just completely, [unclear] smashed, it was quite something but generally speaking I can’t say that I, you know, I go shopping in London and I, one of the girls there I used to take out, Elisabeth Fulligan, she was a solicitors clerk in London and I used to see her every now and then when I was on leave but I generally speaking, you know, the, I go into a restaurant but we might have a bit difficulty in getting decent sort of stuff but, you know, I can always get eggs and bacon or some I think we had horse meat at some places in London but I didn’t know we were eating horse meat until somebody told us but. Uh, all I can say is about, the people there were marvellous [unclear] and if I can just get back, the people in Canada I missed them, I spent a lot of time when I was in Canada doing my course, one of the fellows on my course was Harry Thompson and he was a Canadian, he lived in 1065 107 Street and we used to go to weekends there and you know, they couldn’t do, his parents and their friends had us all out to their places and we go, they take us to their places and, you know, you can never pay for them, they , it was fantastic in what they did for us and I had, as I say, I had relations in England and they are all the same and I, I think that I was fortunate in that I had relations to go and stay with, all our on the other side of that I missed seeing a lot of England, I used to go down on leave to Wesperdale [?] , good to be when I was there, I was enjoying myself immensely you know, I didn’t drink beer, I drank cider and that was worse. I can always remember going to a Rotary club meeting in Maidstone and they introduced me to a sergeants household and I had to get up and say who I was and I didn’t drink beer and I thought I’d have some cider and I think I was silly as anything because I didn’t realise cider was, I any, I didn’t know much about the air force and before we finished I’d like to speak about to something about the air force that I would like to say but I answered that question there and that’s about the best I can do about the people and the conditions and that sort of thing.
AP: So.
DES: Except that I had a good time.
AP: Well, that’s the important thing.
DES: When I was on leave that was, all my leave [unclear], that’s when you notice these things.
AP: So, from Brighton, where did you go next?
DES: Oh, ok, from Brighton my first port of call was, I think it was 29 OTU, operational training unit at Bruntingthorpe, which was near Leicester and that’s, no, I’m sorry, that’s not where I went, I went to the advanced flying unit in Freugh in Scotland. There’s a good story about Freugh and that’s where we did our first lot of real navigation. We did all trips, day trips out to the Mull of Kintyre, we’re up right in the north of Scotland, no the north, but half way of Scotland, and we were doing all these trips. You went over pretty close to Ireland, we’re doing all these marvellous trips, you know, that’s where we really learned to be navigators, really into, we got our wings in Canada, but this where we really did the real thing and there we spent, West Freugh is near Stranraer and Stranraer was the main port of call when you go over to Northern Ireland and now we are on the maps, normal maps, you can find them on google now but on the normal maps you buy, you will never see West Freugh, I’ve asked many a Scottish bloke about West Freugh but they can never find West Freugh, they can only assume it was probably a farm of some sort but they had especially for that, they made it [unclear] because it was flying, we’re on Avro Ansons again, we were flying Avro Ansons there at West Freugh, they’re a two-engine aircraft, and they had two navigators on board and then we, uhm, so, I think from a point of view of a AF advanced flying unit, by the way, it was number 4 [unclear] which is [unclear], we stayed there about, uhm, oh, we didn’t stay there long, we stayed there from July ’44 to the end of July, early July, 5th of July to the 21st of July and that’s where we did our AFU advanced flying unit . Now, from there, we graduated from there and we were only doing cross country trips and that sort of thing from there. From there we went to 29 OTU at Bruntingthorpe and that’s where what we called crewed up and that’s where we, uhm, we’re all pilots, navigators, wireless operators, correct me if I’m wrong, there was, we didn’t have any engineers cause we didn’t have engineers at that stage we had two air gunners, not certain about if we had all, and the wireless operator and so we all, where we were, we were put in a big room and we were told to find yourself a pilot, navigators find yourself a pilot sort of, so, all was a real PR job, you know, we’d all yeah and there might have been a few drinks [unclear] around too as I say but they all, we were all supposed to be friendly and you wanted to find out if you, you wanted to find you’ll gonna have a team that you could work together with and I, I don’t know how I picked my pilot but I [unclear] [unclear] from [unclear] and was slightly older than me, he’s a big man and he had the biggest hands I’ve ever seen, he was a, he had a grape, not a vineyard, well it was a vineyard but he had dried fruits in [unclear] and now was to sitting behind a big bomber and we had to carry a full bomb load and with his hands gave him a great confidence. But I’ll get back to the Bruntingthorpe now, but we, we got together and we finished up with whatever we had to do and we all then did various cross country fighter affiliation where they send up and you get up in the air find another fighter plane to come and meet you and then attack you and all that sort of thing and all various subjects pertaining to air, Gee, H2S, all that sort of thing and we we’ve been introduced to, that was our navigational aids, air positioning indication, that was another thing we learned all about but that was, an hour on Wellingtons, Wellington bomber, well, they were bombers in the early stage, they were being used for training at this stage now and uhm, the uhm, and so we, when they thought the pilot was satisfactory, off we went then to, let me see, we went to, from to HCU which was the heavy conversion unit and that was our introduction to four-engine aircraft and we caught the Sterling, now said and the, uhm, we were there for a short time, that was just, this was mainly the, the pilot getting used to and the navigator, we were doing more, more uhm, things that we had done before, you know, were dropping bombs and packed us bombs and we were doing long, uhm, long cross countries, uhm, you know, five hours, two hours, that sort of thing and uhm, we, uhm, we’d be when the pilot was satisfactory trained, we were showed off to what we called the Lank finishing skill, it was the Lancaster finishing skill and we were introduced to Lancasters and the, from and that was once again, we all did our own thing with the pilot and he just had to become a professional on that particular type of aircraft and from there we were sent to the squadron. Which was Waddington, which was just a few miles away and, and that was when we started our operational flying.
AP: So, what was your first thought of the Lancaster when you first [unclear]?
DES: Oh, after being on the Sterling [laugh], after being on the Sterling it was marvellous, uhm, yeah, with, uh, yeah because [unclear], the carry under the Lancaster, you know, this was probably the best aircraft that had ever been produced at that time for the duration of the war uh, but everything was, when you are a new pilot on the squadron, you usually get the [unclear] aircraft, but some of them, some of had been there for a while had their own aircraft made sure that they kept their own aircraft, we were not allowed to do this, I was on my first start, we were on one particular type of Lancaster and but everything was so modern and up-to-date, you know for us the Gee was, the navigational instruments were all spot on, you know, we never, I don’t know who did the, to this day I don’t know who did all the mechanics and the [unclear], our aircraft was already, it was one of the ground crew base but, you never saw them at work, at least I never saw them at work, unless something really went wrong but yeah, the gap at the back steps of the Lancaster and to walk along the, yeah, it’s try I suppose when I first went up there, you wonder, Gee, where am I going, you had to walk over a big spare but then again I had my own room, well, area, it was just a small area with a black curtain around it but I had a nice desk, had the astro[unclear] up on top which would flashed the various maps down on the and the stars onto the table, everything was spot on and you know, we came to expect, we’re on a Lancaster, we’re on the best we had and that was the feeling that I had, that I was very, very fortunate, you know, some people like the Halifax , you know, but, you know, they say, I love the Halifax and so forth but we just happened to, uh, it had such a good reputation and such a wonderful aircraft and could carry so many more bombs than anyone else. Uh, you know, I think that, uhm, that was my feeling about my first, but I was amazed, really. I was in awe. Yeah.
AP: So, you then go to Waddington from, what’s it, I think, I saw Skellingthorpe in [unclear]?
DES: Yes, I did, I went to Skellingthorpe I thought that was after. I went to Waddington [unclear].
AP: [laughs]
DES: No we didn’t get to Skellingthorpe.
AP: You didn’t get to Skellingthorpe? [unclear] after.
DES: No, we went to Skellingthorpe after the war finished. We went to Skellingthorpe and we were all transferred to Skellingthorpe and we were, uhm, we had our final passing air parade in August, August 1945. We had our passing air parade.
AP: So, alright, we will get back to Waddington then.
DES: Yeah, get back to Waddington.
AP: Yeah [laughs]. Uhm, where and how did you live on the Squadron at Waddington?
DES: Oh, well now, Waddington was a permanent station in England, a permanent RAF station. It was, it had been there for many years and it consisted of what you would call apartment-type of accommodation, it was brick, big brick flats and in that we’d all, the officers, my pilot now was a flight sergeant right through but as soon as he went to the Squadron, he got his commission and that was the rule then he got his commission. And so he went to the officer’s mess and they had their own specific area and we had our own, we were in dormitories and, uhm, I had, I sort of, well, I was a flight sergeant a lot of that time but I was regarded as a bit senior, not senior but, I seemed to be the one that organises for when and what we are doing outside out of the, you know, for our recreation cause my pilot didn’t smoke or drink and that is marvellous, [unclear] didn’t smoke or drink, he was young too but, but he was a great one for, uhm. He was really wrapped in aircraft, which he should be I know, no, but he gathered at the end of the runway if we weren’t flying a particular day on the squadron he’d go off at the end of the runway and watch them all take off and that sort of thing, he was, he was a wonderful bloke and then he took a great interest in everything, but he. My brother was the same, he would do all that sort of thing, you know, they’re really wrapped but others might be doing something else, but, we used to, well, there were various things we could do, I used to take them down to the, we used to go down to The Horse and Jockey, which is still there, the hotel, but it was a hotel in the , you know, we could go and have something to eat down there, or we’d have a few [unclear], play darts, [unclear] balls and that sort of thing and there a lot of our lot, we had pushbikes and we could pushbike down to the Horse & Jockey and that was in the little town of Waddington, was only a little place and uhm, uh, a lot of our time was spent going around and then we’d have, every six weeks we’d have leave. But, sticking to Waddington, uhm, you know, we had a lot to do, we had dances, the west [unclear] we would have dances all night, yeah, we’re all, uh, I reckon that we were all well looked after and they really were, I’ve recently been back to the Horse & Jockey, and, you know, they are so pleased to see you and they were like that in England. Most, I think of most of them were, I’m not being a snob but I think most of them were pretty good party fellows, there were not a lot of drunks, gave me a favorite to drinks, we had a, we had right a bite back and a [unclear] who used to stop us every now and then and say: ‘Aye, aye, aye!’ but they wouldn’t do anything to us. They were quite, uhm, quite pleasant. But I’ve really found that the people there, I didn’t get involved in anything much outside [unclear] leave I had relations to go to [unclear] wonderful, cause I had my mother’s side and my father’s side so I had relations of both so [unclear] he was from, my father was from Maryport in Cumberland, right up in the north and I have been there a few times since. I met my grandfather that I had never seen and a bit quite of the other relations but the grandfather was the closest, he was a tenner and there was gaslight, there was no electricity, was gaslight, and he, I had to sleep with him, he had no other accommodation there was I think he had a family gone but there wasn’t a very big place and I had forgotten he had, I was [unclear] he was one of six brothers, my father was one of six brothers but later on I found out that my grandmother had fourteen kids so that meant we, in the last few years I’ve been chasing up all these people we’ve met, since I didn’t know we had but sticking to the, uhm, on the Squadron, yeah, we, uhm, I don’t think I had much more [unclear] than I, I had just a normal [unclear], I used to go to church at the Lincoln Cathedral every now and then, I used to go to Southwell. In case you don’t know that Southwell was six miles south out of Newark in Robin Hood territory and it’s a cathedral, it’s got a cathedral so it’s a city, it’s only a small place but it’s a city of Southwell, although they call it Southwell, and so I went there a few times, I was made very welcome and incidentally the Southwells in Australia is one of the biggest families in Australia but, and I am connected with them but they’re in Canberra and they, their offshoots are all, uhm, there is an enormous lot of them, probably the biggest family in Australia, the Southwells. You might, [unclear], but the government gave them a grant in the bicentenary they have their big reunion in Canberra, so there must be some truth in there.
AP: So, you mentioned The Horse & Jockey earlier. Uhm, if you walk into the Horse & Jockey, in wartime, what’s there, what does it look like and what’s going on?
DES: Looks like an old English pub.
AP: Yeah? Funny that.
DES: Yeah, a bit out [unclear] cause I went back a few months again and I hardly knew the place, it had been changed around, they moved a lot of the chimneys out, but I can’t remember getting to a reunion in 1995 at the Horse & Jockey and they had an upstairs everybody could go and we had a great get together that day which was been back on Channel 9 and I was lady in the singing of all the wartime songs in Waddington but it was a real meeting place down, there was another pub we tried [unclear] plus I didn’t drink much but I went to that, oh, I was drinking as at that stage I hadn’t started to drink but that’s another story. My brother, I didn’t mind, now I never drink in our family and my brother on his way back he came up to see me in Montreal at one stage and he said: ‘Would you like a beer?’ And I said: ‘Oh no, I will have a lemonade’. And he said: ‘I will have a beer’. I said, oh, so I didn’t say anything to him. And when since I got back to Montreal, I’ve had a beer and I’ve been drinking beer ever since [laughs]. But, you know, Canada was a funny place for beer because it’s a, they don’t sell beer in a, in those days they didn’t sell beer in a hotel, you had to go into a place that was especially designed and sit down and have a beer but you put salt into the beer to get the gas out of, it was so gassy, that’s another story. But, the Horse & Jockey now, I gonna say now because honestly I’ve forgotten what it was there like but now they have a lot of dart boards around, we played darts and we played balls outside, it was fun, uhm, but it was just, you know, there were members of the public, you know, the people that were working there, we would fraternise with them, they were all friendly with, so, it was generally, it was nice, actually it wasn’t a bad place to go and have a [unclear] and a [unclear]. No, I wouldn’t say that, [unclear] we were [unclear] but more recollections of the Horse & Jockey that was, I said, the crew kept together, I kept the crew together, we were all there together, it was the whole other six of us, there as, that didn’t mean, there was no worry about that but I would like to add that I had [unclear] to my place in about 1950 or 60 and he [unclear] smoked. So, [laughs], [unclear] it’s been a change, he remained a bachelor all his life. But he was wonderful fellow and he was another one, as I say he was very, very keen on, what he did, he took on the training course after the war in [unclear] and he was, he got a medal for that, an RFD or doing something like that, royal returned forces, no, not returned, what’s it, returned something forces decoration? Not returned forces. Anyway, as an RFD, as a, there’s a post normal or medal, but he, he got one of those. But he was a great fellow and he brought us home safely.
AP: [unclear] Alright.
DES: But I had a lot of confidence in him, as I was saying, earlier on, [unclear] blessed hands, they were bigger than mine, I got the tiniest hands you’ve ever seen, mine, my wife’s gloves won’t fit me, you know, they’re my hands, my hands are so tiny, but, yeah, he was, yeah, that’s about it, [unclear].
AP: Yeah, we’re going alright still. So, a little bit more about this daily life in Waddington. The Sergeants Mess, what was that like, what sort of things happened there?
DES: Oh yeah, the Sergeants Mess. Yeah, well, we spend a bit of time there, no, after a trip we do was going to the mess and there’s a lot of, a lot of untoward things went on in the Sergeants Mess and some of the other persons over there, a bit longer than I was, tell some wonderful stories about bringing a donkey into the mess and there’s the Officers Mess and all sort of that. But, we, uhm, I can’t recall, my memory is not that good for the Sergeants Mess. I can, I know what it was like but it was not a place that, you know, we all met there at various stages and had our lunch there and our dinner there and all that sort of thing but, uhm, this never stayed in my mind as being rather relevant to me, I don’t know why but I know we ate there and had our meals there and you know the ordering officer would come round and say: ‘Any complaints?’ [Laughs] Every day in the evening we had our meal there, the ordering officer would come round and say, quite often it was one of the, one of your pilots that, [laughs] you know, was his turn to come over from the officers mess and say: ‘Any complaints?’ What’s the officer, orderly officer, any complaints, I don’t know, that I had many complaints, no, I can’t help, I can’t recall a lot about the Sergeants Mess.
AP: Did 463 and 467 Squadron eat in, did they have their own officer’s mess [unclear]?
DES: No, we were all together, they had their own, the two were there together.
AP: So it was more [unclear] Waddington.
DES: yeah, yeah, yeah. Was Waddington, yeah. Yeah, when we went back to Waddington in, when we went to the Officers Mess there was just one place, yeah, there was only one place, there was 463 and 467, yeah, we got to know each other 463 and 467, as you know 467 was the first Australian Squadron, first Squadron on, uhm ,first was their own Squadron, they were formed in about 1941, something like that and then after they got a big bigger, we wanted to have another Squadron, so 463 grew out of [unclear]? Yeah, [unclear], grew out of [unclear], is it about November or December? ‘43, would that be right? 47 might have been ’42, I think it was ’43.
AP: Yeah, ’43.
DES: Yeah, it was ’43, I think. And so that’s how 463 was. Uhm, and that was under Wing Commander Rollo Kingswood-Smith, who send me off the parade ground for not having a shave. And I was only a young bloke who only shaved about four days a week and I was on, and they sent me off the parade ground for not having a shave. And then later on of course, I’m going ahead of fifty years I became the secretary of 463 Squadron, Rollo was, he is the patron at present, no, he is the patron, I think but he was and he came up to me, oh, I did know him a bit afterwards so. He came up to me and looked at me and said: ‘Oh, Don, you’ve done your shave today’. And days before he died, he said to me: ‘Don, you had your shave today’ and I reminded him when I came back from England but I became quite a good friend of Rollo, when I finished, cause he is really very, very good, he always [unclear], you know, he was a flight commander, no he was a CO, or was a flight commander, whatever he was, he wasn’t a station commander, because that was different from, but he was, he was a 463 commanding officer but he did his trips at the time, he never, he always did his trips, so, he could have quite easily have said, No, I’m going tonight or something like that, but Rollo would always do his trips and never fail. And he was always very good with his, I know, with his writing to people for, you know, lost their and lost their sons and but I believe he was a very strict, he was a very, very strict man, as I say, he was quite different in late years, well, he was, you knew where you stood with him but, and I think he had to be to be the commanding officer at that particular, and we had all walks of life in our, uh, in the air force.
AP: Did 463 Squadron have any superstitions or hoodoos or anything that you are aware of of [unclear]?
DES: Not that I am aware of, I always used to carry my RAF, I had no RAF scarf, always carry my RAF scarf, had to go back one night to get it, but, which I had forgotten, I had to get back but that was only a personal deal I don’t think I was really superstitious about I had to carry my RAF scarf, it was a scarf, it wasn’t a tie, it was a scarf, I didn’t see many of them, I still got mine on my top drawer beside my bed I’ve got my Royal Air Force scarf. I also had my Royal Air Force [unclear] [laughs].
AP: [laughs]
DES: Some [unclear].
AP: We were talking about off tape before we started. Very good. So, you flew nine operations [unclear].
DES: I did nine operations, yep.
AP: Do any of them particularly stand out?
DES: Yeah, was a couple I can have. The trip, uhm, I did to Pilsen. We took off, was a long trip, Pilsen was in Czechoslovakia and it was a long trip and not, we had a couple of hours and now one of our engines went and the skipper said to me: ‘Do you think we can make it?, and I said: ‘Yes, I think so. I think we can take a few short cuts [unclear] we might be able to make it, we don’t tell anybody whatever’. And he said, [skimming through pages of a book], yeah, the uhm, I said: ‘I think I could make it’ and I did a few calculations and even though I say [unclear] I reckon I did a pretty well navigation so I think that was that day because you know you had to be careful if you gonna take any short cuts it couldn’t stand out we were on a track that you were given and as long as you stayed four miles or five miles out of the side of the track you are fairly safe because that’s where all the other aircraft were going, and we were tossing out the silver paper, the Window, that made look as if there are more aircraft out and that sort of thing. But we had to be careful if we went out of it, you could be picked off by the German radar, so you had to be a little bit careful. So, anyway, we got there on time, uhm, we uhm, and uhm, so that was a long trip that I got a bit of praise for by my skipper in the briefing that we went back to and that was about uhm, eight hours and we bombed on three engines. We were diverted when we got back cause we didn’t have much fuel left, uhm, we landed at Boscombe Down that particular night and, uhm, then the next day went back to, uhm, to, uhm, Waddington but uhm, yeah, it was that. And one other night we went to [unclear]. I was in a couple of thousand bomber raids, daylight, we were over Essen and Dortmund and I, we bombed through a cloud there and this was, you realised we were getting towards the end of the war and the master bomber was down below the clouds and he’d come up the cloud, drop the target indicators and go back down again and see how they went and he turned on the RT, the radio telephone and he turned into [unclear] TI by ten seconds or something like that, you know, and he’d be conducting the whole operation from down below. And, so we were just, we just dropped bombs, we didn’t see where they go, we just dropped them on top of the cloud, and that was on the Krupp works at Essen and Dortmund and. But there was another one I was going to mention and we went to [unclear], and uhm, which is just south of Hamburg and the wind changed that particular night and the whole force was all over north-western Europe, we got a little blown away but well, I got a little bit off course, I got to say this, I got a bit off course and we were chased by the German jetfighters, the 263 I think it is? The 263, something like that, the 263? But, we went into a cork, we did have, we were well-trained, went straight away and went into the corkscrew and we did all that, and, cause they can only stay up for about ten minutes and so they, you know, you, if you did your corkscrew properly, probably you were safe so we got out of that but that was, we were picked off there because I got a bit off course. And then I went to uhm, smaller refineries, Bohlen, I went to Bohlen, that was out near Leipzig, for people that might know where Leipzig is, a lot of these synthetic oil refineries were in Eastern Germany and, uhm, we’re at the crossing of the Rhine when the British army were, uhm, crossing the Rhine, uh, we were given the job of bombing Wesel, we were given the job of bombing Wesel and, uhm, which we did and I think it was only, it was only our, you know, our group went that particular night but the British army were on one side of the river and the German side, the Germans were on the other side, and we bombed the other side but we were given a certain time because the British were going into the water at a certain time to go over and I took it with the loss of one life, I think it was in, General Montgomery, Field Marshall Montgomery, he, send the message back to, they brought it over to the loudspeakers the next day on parade, do you want something to eat?
AP: No, thank you.
DES: It was on parade and we were on parade and they read out a message from Montgomery to say how wonderful it was and we did a wonderful job bla, bla, bla, yeah, and uh, yeah that was interesting because you can, if you go to Wesel afterwards it’s quite, you know, I’ve seen some photos of it lately and I think they have rebuilt most of, most of the place. And lastly we did the last operation of the war which was on Tonsberg, which was in the southern part of Norway and we approached it from the North, so it was a long crossing over the North Sea, this was the last operation of the war, on Anzac Day, and with the, we came down the coast, I was coming down from Norway, with Sweden on the left hand side and Sweden was all beautifully lit up, all lit up and the other side was all black, blacked up there was the, Norway which was under the control of the Germans, anyway, we, uhm, that was the last operation of the war and we, uhm, that was bombed successfully but on, if I check forward about fifty years, I was at a funeral and, uhm, of a lady who was of Norwegian birth and the ex-consul of Norway was there and I went and spoke to him and I said: ‘I’ve never been to Norway except on the air’. And he said: ’When were you there?’ I said: ‘Oh, I was there on the 25th of April 1945’ and he said: ‘Well, your aim was pretty good that night’. [laughs] Not at all, so I thought we did pretty well. He said yes. He said, but some of your bombers did bomb the shipyards, some of them went astray and they bombed some of the civilians and he said that all the people of Norway, the war was coming to an end, the 8th of May was the end of the war, the war was coming to an end, they are all thrilled, all happy because everybody knew the armistice was coming on that particular day and he said, now, all the people in the rest of Norway, he said, we were burying our dead and he was very nice about the whole thing and, you know, he is, I got him down as a likely speaker for whoever wants someone to speak about it but, they were very understanding and. So I must really go to France these days, you know, the people in France they were terribly bombed, you know, was, they are thanking you and thanking you and we did an enormous lot of damage but they realised that we had to, that we had to do that for, uhm, sake of winning the war.
AP: So, you mentioned that Messerschmitt, or the jetfighter.
DES: Jetfighter, yeah.
AP: And the corkscrew. So, you are the navigator. You hear corkscrew port go. What happens next?
DES: I have been difficult. Well, we gotta a set of pattern what you got to do the, if the plane’s coming in from the port, you corkscrew port go the rear gunner or whatever the hillside part will do his corkscrew and he’d go down fifteen hundred and he’d turn and he’d go up fifteen hundred feet and it’s quite a ring morale to do but you fly, if you do it properly you fly, you know, a certain course even [unclear] and so, you know, it didn’t do much damage to our [unclear] we didn’t have to make much allowance for an hour in our navigation, if you had to corkscrew port, you, you could just sort of forget about it and just there’s, as long as you weren’t [unclear] too long but generally speaking you flew a net course for this business, all designed to and it was very successful the corkscrew but I, I think we did this about three times I suppose.
AP: What does it feel like?
DES: Oh, I don’t mind, don’t forget we are nineteen years of age there, this was just, this was just wonderful, trusting the aircraft. Oh, of course you were worried a bit about where you were being shot down that goes into it, but generally speaking the corkscrew never, we thought if we did the corkscrew port we would be safe. You’ve got that feeling in your mind that you’d do that, I always remember Redge Boys [?] he was our hero, he was [unclear], he was our navigation leader at Waddington and Redge he did two tours and he said he never believed himself that he’d ever be shot down and he tried to, he despite the fact that the pilot was the chief, he always made sure the crew were all, you know, positive about what we were doing, they were all, they were always convinced that they were gonna get through this. They had this positive attitude that they, you know, and I think it helped, while you’re up there, [unclear], I tried to adopt that attitude that, you know, we all wanted to get home and see the people and I want to get home but, I must admit that, when we were on a bombing run, I used to see, a navigator didn’t have his parachute on, he, you couldn’t work on a desk when, cause we had a chest parachute that fitted on a harness on your chest and you had it sitting beside you. Now, uh, if I was to leave there at my desk, I’d always put my parachute on and I would go, if we were on a bombing run, I would remember the course you got to steer after we dropped our bombs and I’d turn the light out and I’d go up and stand behind the pilot, and watch all the, what was going on and I could then pop down to the rear gunner, near the rear gunner and say, could I have a look at the pilot [laughs] and you’d see the fires and all that sort of thing in the background. But, you know, I felt as if I wanted to be part of the thing so I wanted to see what was going on. Cause everyone else could see what was going on except the wireless operator and what’s the name because we were sitting [unclear] bomb’s gone, you’d have to wait a while, while the photo was taken, away was given course 270 and off we go. And, yeah.
AP: Yes, that’s unusual, most, uhm, most navigators I have spoken to would, you know come up and have a look [unclear] take the head and go, no, don’t ask me to do that [unclear].
DES: Oh, now, that’s, that’s another story. Well, that is. After, a lot of people don’t know about this. But after the war we disarmed, the war had finished and we were disarming with all our, [unclear] disarmed and we had to get rid of all the bombs on the station. So, what they did was we’d [unclear] might have been a couple of weeks, I could look that up but that’s been a couple of weeks, we flew out of Waddington with four bomb loads, headed to the North Sea, about two and a half hours and straight course out, dropped our bombs, they were dropped safe, they weren’ dropped armed but they were dropped safe, and there, I know what the Greenies [?] had signed out because they knew all these thousands of bombs now there was really thousands of us, there was not only our Squadron but every other Squadron was doing this. We go out there and then we come back and if you were above the cloud, we used to have a lot of fun with the pilot with going over the cloud, as if you were low flying. We had some lovely time so, but what I’m coming to is I thought this particular dive [?] was navigation record, no had Gee operator, [unclear], I didn’t done any, I didn’t have to do any strict navigation set up, I, cause I had near position indicators which told me, anyway, we, I thought I’d like to get into the rear turret and I saw [unclear] was the rear gunner and he could come up and sit in the navigation seat and I’d coming in here for a couple of hours, you know. So I trotted off down to the and the [unclear] showed me what to do and [unclear] I couldn’t have gone out of there, couldn’t have gotten there faster, was scared stiff, you know I’d never been because you’re away from the tires of the aircraft, when you are sitting back behind you, so, you are sitting out in the open. You know, you’re away from the aircraft so you feel like it and I think [unclear] having to sit [unclear] on our trip to sit in this thing, you know, you’d be, mind you, these, while our air gunners had had the experience of flying they knew what they’d, you know, they’d got used to it I suppose but me as a person I was scared stiff, I was more scared stiff getting into, getting out of that turret than I was, say, sitting out there in the navigation and bombs, looking down and looking at bombs going off and [unclear] I was scared stiff on that trip. And I had the greatest of admiration for our rear gunner out there, how they could [unclear], and [unclear] you know, I’m not necessarily claustrophobic but I thought oh, Jeez, I couldn’t do this. And I realised how well off I was, because the navigator was lucky I reckon because, as I say, on a ten hour trip you’d have, you had to get a fix every ten minutes or so and, you know, you no sooner that you’d got your fix, you’d plotted it, as you got your fix, you plotted it, you’d make the necessary course, the course change and so forth so If you had to make any change and it took time and the time went quickly this was what the beauty was the pilot was the same, he may be sitting around looking, you know, sitting out on the front [unclear] putting on a [unclear] every now and then, yeah, most of the time but he, and but the navigator had to do and the wireless op was something similar to, he had a lot of work to do, he had to keep the schedules and report back and we had our jobs and our logs don’t forget, as soon as we got back, were handed in to the navigation leader and you were marked as if you were at school and you get 60 percent, or 50 percent or 75. And uhm, you know but this is why we had, oh I must say this as a navigator, that we had marvellous navigator, the navigators were, the Royal Air Force and the Royal Australian Air Force, they were wonderfully trained, they, don’t forget, they took as about eighteen months to get into operations, the Americans, I understand can get in as navigating, get in about six weeks training, you know, and that’s not exaggerating, I believe as I say, because some of the B-24s out of Darwin carried, the Americans carried Australian navigators if you look up your history, which is not widely spoken about, but we were well trained and, as I say, we strictly [unclear], we knew our work was big marked anyhow so you had to be, you really gave you a greater incentive to be [unclear] but above all, you know, a ten hour trip might have seemed by far, you know, then, yeah.
AP: VE-day.
DES: Ah, VE-Day. This is all vivid with me, I had wonderful times on VE-day but VE-Day I did three trips to France bringing home, I think it was on VE-Day, yeah, it was on VE-Day, I don’t know if it was three or two we didn’t the next day, you know I did three trips of bringing home prisoners of war, we’d go over in Juvincourt in France and load up twenty five, it was called Operation Exodus and we were out, we load up to twenty five British war, British prisoners of war, they’d been, some of them had been there since Dunkirk in 1940 and the first load we carried, oh, they sit, the twenty five of them sat in the fuselage of the Lancaster on cushions, not seatbelts, uhm, they just had to hang on and [laughs] they just had to sit there and there were thousands of them, we brought out prisoners of war with this Operation exodus by the way, but they were, uhm, It was a wonderful experience, it was one of the greatest experiences of my life, you flew these guys out, they’d been prisoners of war all these years and they, uhm, the first load I carried they were all Sikhs, they were Indians the first lot we carried out. The next load we carried were all obviously from England and it seemed to be most obvious, I made sure that I went down and I got them to come up gradually when the white cliffs of Dover came, got them, and we ferried them up but it was nice and orderly and hear the tears was rolling down their cheeks, you know, was absolutely wonderful to see the, uhm, and they all shook hands when we, uhm, they all shook hands when they got off the aircraft and that was what I did on VE-Day. Now, shortly after VE-Day we had a lot of celebrations and I, you know, I can always remember smoking a cigar, having a few beers, I was Mister Churchill at one stage, you know, was a lot of hilarity and joyness and it was a wonderful feeling, they, you know, all the station was all together and we were all having, officers, ordinary, you know, the airmen, we were all together having a and they’d put on some wonderful [unclear] there and at that particular time and that’s my, I worked on the VE-Day there and we were so glad we were doing, and the guy that wrote our 463-467 book, Nobby Blundell he was a, uhm, he was a fitter, he was a fitter, uhm, an engineer and on a ground staff and he wrote our books incidentally, all the books on 464-647 fisher [?] books were all written by Nobby did a magnificent job but the uhm, was great the, uhm, he managed to, you know, get, gives us all the particulars that we wanted to know, I don’t know, and he was all of our flying set up, all of the, he’d used the, [unclear], is that called, the evidence of our doing your trip, he used to get all these information from the [unclear], he spend years on doing this and so we were forever grateful and he did this but, uhm, getting back to VE-Day, I was more than, more than pleased with what was happening and then of course we had to start thinking about what was gonna happen as it was after VE-Day.
AP: Uhm, how did you get back to Australia?
DES: Ah, that’s a good [unclear], you’ve got some good questions. They are very good, you know, [unclear], we uhm, the uhm, oh I made two efforts to get away. We were disbanded by the way, we were disbanded in August at, uhm, Skellingthorpe, I think it was Skellingthorpe, we’d moved to Skellingthorpe from the Squadron and they formed a Tiger Force for people that were gonna go out to fight the Japanese and uhm, we uhm, managed to particular Tiger Force the uhm, [unclear] you know just asking [unclear].
AP: How did you go home?
DES: How did you go home, yeah. Lost my train of thought. At my age you can.
AP: That’s one. That’s the first one in [unclear]
DES: No, I forget.
AP: Off you go.
DES: Oh, good. [laughs] I know you can scrub that out, yeah, but getting home. Yeah, but I wanted to mention about, we disbanded and then we were transferred to Brighton to wait for a boat and the [unclear] came along. Now, a lot of people in the Air Force know what happened there, there was virtually no, [unclear] but the conditions on the [unclear] which is the [unclear] boat, there was no P&O those days, [unclear] made all the newspapers that a lot of the trips walked off the ship at Southampton because of the conditions, I didn’t want to go twenty five days or so we gotta go and we went back through the canal and [unclear], well we didn’t stop, well we stopped in a few places, the uhm, it was, the, in Brighton we went from, we’d gone onto the ship on the [unclear], we’d got onto the ship and we sailed eventually, we sailed to half of it and wouldn’t you believe we broke down in the Bay of Biscay and the war was over, there was no submarines or so, the war had finished at this time, this was in August or September 1945 [unclear] and we, in between time we had been flying, we’d been doing, taking stuff out to drop the bombs and we’d been doing fighter affiliation and all, we then found work for us to do. Anyway, we set sail out of Southampton and we broke down, and we were flying the black flag, anyone knows it’s out of control and so we eventually we got, we slipped back to Southampton, the first time I have ever been sick was on that bay because we just it [unclear] and happened [unclear] it was about 20000 tons and was their luxury ship when the [unclear] luxury could have been made into a troop ship and we went back to Southampton we were sent then up to Millham. Now Millham is right up near West Freugh, up near Stranraer, right up on the North-West of England and [unclear] us all up to, it was the middle of winter. And we were in Nissen huts and we had to try and keep warm and they had to heat us there but ran out of coal, they couldn’t get, we were rationed the coal, so we smarty Australians [unclear], there was the coal, we got into the coal, [unclear] and pinched the coal, I caught a couple of sometime [unclear] about but we had to go and pinch coal to keep warm. And uhm, we eventually went from there, we were there about a week I suppose and then they found another boat for us which was the Durban Castle, it was a [unclear] ship which went from London, used to go from London to Cape Town and that was a nice ship was made up of air, the complement of going home was a lot of air force people, we had New Zealanders coming home uhm, was quite an interesting lot of people that were on board but we were in [unclear], I was a warrant officer then I’d got up to warrant officer and there under the normal chain, six months of flight sergeant, twelve months of, uh, sorry, six months of sergeant, four months of flight sergeant, then you’re put and made a warrant officer, that was the RAAF and so we’d became warrant officers and then was commission if you got a commission. And the uhm, we uhm, [pauses] [unclear] yeah, yeah, we’re back, we’re off from and, yeah, we were now on the Durban Castle, we’re on the, I forgot, the Durban Castle and the Durban Castle and we had a lot of, we pulled into Gibraltar, can remember Gibraltar, the conditions on the boat were good, the food was good, I put on a stain on the way back because, you know, we put a lot of potatoes, they had a lot of stuff [unclear] but they fed us well, it was a full ship really, but we picked up people on the way, we went to Gibraltar but that was to drop off somebody who was sick so we didn’t pull in, it was just off Gibraltar and we could see the place and if anybody is interested they oughta go to Gibraltar, it is one of the most interesting places to go there. Uh, you don’t expect to see what you see, so we, Gibraltar just a night, we dropped these people off and then we went to Taranto in Italy, in the heel of Italy and there we picked up the New Zealand war brides, that had married a lot of the New Zealanders, who were fighting in Italy, they’d either gone home or [unclear], but the war brides were on their own and so we picked up the war brides and that filled the boat a bit more and then we went from Italy to the Canal, went through the canal, and they wouldn’t let us off the boat in the canal and, you know, none of us would have been through the Suez Canal and so, that was working of course and so was [unclear] to Port Tewfik, Tewfik? No, Port Said, we went to Port Said and they, one of the guys in that was with me at the time, was called [unclear] and he had a DCM, Distinguished Conduct Medal which he had earned in the Middle East but he was in the Air Force, he was, he was a gunner in the Air Force but and he’d been to Port Said, you know, he knew all about this place and we had to get to Port, [mimics the gunners voice] so there was a ladder down at the back of the ship and so a few of us got out of the bumboats as they called them [unclear] and we went ashore, we went ashore, we didn’t take any notice of them people [unclear] we, most of the people were doing this but they were not supposed to. And so we were wondering around the town and the Arabs tried to come and sell us something, dirty postcards on sale [laughs], you know, and we were looking, [unclear] got out, went off and he hit one of these blokes, he hit one of these blokes, you know, because he was trying to do something wrong or I don’t know what it was but he knew what he can get away with, he slapped him on the face [unclear] we gonna get caught [unclear] being in a riot, anyway we got back to our ship alright and went up the gangway this time, no one said anything so. We went through the canal which was a great experience to go through and see how that operates, I’ve never been through the Panama but a lot of our fellows went through the Panama, which I would have liked to have done, uhm, then we went into Aden, and then we, that was near Yemen, and that was in Yemen where you nearly got a lot of troubles and then we went to, uhm, Perth, we went straight across the Indian Ocean to Perth and that’s where we dropped of the Perth blacks [?] and I remember carrying, not carrying but helping a bloke who’d had too much to drink in Kings Park and we were gonna miss the boat, cause you had to be up to Perth and the boat was at Freemantle, we had to get back by train and we had to get him back so [unclear] helped him back but he was not used to Australian beer cause the British beer was pretty, uh, pretty weak and this Australian beer was pretty, you know, pretty [unclear] anyway we got back, we came around the [unclear] to Melbourne, and was Melbourne we got off the boat and went to, uhm, went on the train, went on the train to Sydney, I don’t recall, must have been the train of the time, we sat up but we didn’t have sleepers, and no, we went up to Sydney and the Vietnam blokes all complain that they didn’t get a welcome home. Well, none of us got a welcome home but we were quite happy, cause we arrived at Central Station on platform number one, my mother and sister were there to meet me, they took me home and then a week later I was to report at Bradfield Park, I went to Bradfield Park, they gave me a dischargement home and I went back to work.
AP: That was it.
DES: That was it.
AP: Did you have any issues settling down again? [unclear]?
DES: No, no, no, I had no issues. The only thing is for a while so I went straight back to my job that I left at the MLC and I had been there eighteen months, for eighteen months so I didn’t know much about the business and so I got into, when I went to, I applied when I went back, this is in early 1946 I uhm went back to the MLC and they put me on, they had to put me on that was the law, they had to put you back on staff and they sent me to a department where I was the only fellow with a hundred and forty girls. I’d been in the Air Force all this time with fellows, we had the well WAAF around but generally speaking you weren’t used to mixing around with women, you know, and they put me there for, they put me there for a purpose, of course, and they put next to me the girl that spoke the most [laughs] she was a real gossip, she spoke the most, Shirley Reed, and Shirley, and I, the first two weeks I didn’t hardly, apart from doing my work I didn’t say anything but not because I didn’t [unclear], I was just out, I don’t know what to do, you know, I was just doing my work but I thought, and I wasn’t that good at conversation at that particular time [unclear] we had lunch at our desk in those days, we bought some sandwiches and had lunch at our desks, she kicked the chair from underneath me, I was leaning back and she kicked the chair it was dangerous, she kicked the chair, I went down under the [unclear], well, everybody laughed and I laughed and from that time on I was married [?] [laughs]. I was in that department for about two years and I was still the only fellow. And I have great memories of that, of that two years because I was single, I went to so many birthday parties and twenty-first birthday parties, to weddings, I talked to get a few other girls, my wife was one of them and well, became one of them and I went to work for her in the department and I made [unclear] she came to England for four years and then came back and I married her then but I don’t, was I was then move to, I went again they sent me to Tasmania to open up the office in Tasmania in Launceston and then I was there for two years and then I, they did that in those days, don’t do it nowadays, then I was sent to, I was in Sydney for a while and then I was posted to Adelaide in 1960 and I, I was in charge of the collector branch there in Adelaide and we had two children there, Dave and Jane and that was another wonderful experience and then. I’ve got to say something about the air force, don’t let me forget.
AP: [unclear] of course.
DES: But, we had, Adelaide was a wonderful place to bring children up, I became a fan of the, I was a rugby person, rugby union, I became a fan of Australian rules when I first went to Adelaide I was, uhm, every Monday we had lunch with a group in the industry, in the life insurance industry and I didn’t have much to, I didn’t have much to talk about because I didn’t know anything about the Australian rules, for all they talked about were the teams that played at the weekend so I thought, oh, the best thing for me to do was to join those, if we were gonna have, [unclear], I’d better join them, better go out with them, so, they were members, a few of them were members of the Stirling football club, Aussie [?] rules club, and, no, The Double Blues, I can sing you the song if you want me to sing it, but they are The Double Blues and I became quite a rugby, an Australian rules fan, I’m not forgetting me rugby cause I’m a rugby person still but the, I used to, family, it was a family setup, we’d go out on a Saturday and we’d go, we’d have the radio would be on at the eleven o’clock match and then we’d go on, we’d have lunch or something then we’d go up to see the afternoon, the main game in the afternoon and then we’d finish there we’d go and buy some beer and some food and we'd watch the replay of that game and then we’d watch the replay of the main game in Melbourne, that was our Saturday but all the kids were all around at home that particular day and they’d come to the game in Adelaide, then they got so much free bottle they could pick up and the kids used to go and pick it up and make a lot of money on a Saturday [laughs] and but I became quite a fan of that we won the premiership four weeks running and that was my introduction to Australian rules, what a wonderful thing to be, but it’s a wonderful game and I love Australian rules and I do follow the Swans, uhm, but I don’t go out and see nowadays, I don’t go and see the rugby except on [unclear] occasions again I go and watch the rugby but. And in Tasmania I played rugby union and my [unclear] was the president of the North Tasmanian rugby union, we had three teams and I played in one of the teams and, uhm, that was in Launceston and, oh I forgot, New Zealand. I was in, I was two and a half years in New Zealand and I was there for the Springbok Tour in 1956 and I saw quite a bit of the football there, I used to go to the football in those days but New Zealand was another great place to be I was married there but I came back to Sydney, married Dorothy and then came back to New Zealand when she came back, she came back to work at the MLC for twelve months and, uh, and then we came back to, and I had a wonderful time because I have got relations there In New Zealand, so, I had places I had to go, so, I’ve seen every city in New Zealand except Gisborne and I don’t know why I’m saying that but, uhm, it was a wonderful place for me and it was a good place to, uhm, yeah it was a good, I was the, I joined the Kendala Lawn Tennis Club and I played tennis and I became the treasurer of the Kendala Lawn Tennis Club and so I fitted into the New Zealand mob, cause New Zealanders by and large as a group don’t like Australians, you know, but they do like, when they meet individually we’re all great, you know, we might talk about the Anzac business but they have really odd, that’s only my observation of course, they don’t’ really and I’m a, I regularly go to funerals in New Zealand at the moment but you know I’m a great fan of New Zealand and they as a group, they are jealous of Australians, I think, cause we’re so big.
AP: Ok, could be something.
DES: Yeah.
AP: Yeah, worked with a few kiwis, anyway. Uhm, yeah, you were gonna say something [unclear].
DES: I was gonna say, I do a lot of this, you know, I’m gonna plug in for the Bomber Command Commemorative Day and I’ve been involved with 463-467 Squadron Association, I’ve been involved with, uh, the Bomber Command Commemorative Day Foundation but that’s just a little aside. Uh, I’m doing this really because [clears throat] I owe the Air Force something. [sighs] When my, when memoires bring us [unclear] when I went away on the Air Force, I didn’t know anything, I was a real greenhorn, I was a green eighteen, didn’t know anything cause mum, you know, we were never allowed to play cards on a Sunday as I’d never, we never had cards in the house, mum didn’t, mum was a bit, she was an Anglican and uh, but she wasn’t, she wasn’t an [unclear] or anything either but a [unclear] drink she might have been, we never had but grog in the place, I tried to have [unclear] sherry sometimes [laughs] she went [mimics and astonished expression] when she heard, she was a great mother by, a great mother by the way but our mum, I’m trying to get the message over that I didn’t know a lot about the world until I went to the Air Force and the Air Force made me and I feel I gotta make some contribution to the Air Force and the same thing applies to the office MLC, that they to me were absolutely marvellous and I only retired from there about two years ago when I, I retired in ‘84, I went back to do a job for three months, to set up the database, helped set up the database in the MLC and now twenty five years later I’m still there with two, with another guy, it was five of us who stayed on for a while, but then, three had died and two of us are still left. But the MLC were, they, you know, I was on a, I tell you I was on a two and half percent mortgage for a time at the MLC, and they didn’t pay as much as probably some of the other companies but you know, I never, you felt you had a real, uhm, you know, they never sacked anybody except if you pinched money [laughs] and that, it remarks the office that didn’t happen but the MLC were wonderful to me, the Air Force and the MLC were wonderful to me and a lot of my friends are not jealous of me but they would have loved to have had a job like I’ve got, working with the MLC until I was just on ninety and, uhm, and I was doing every bit as good a job as I was as the people beside me that I was working, I was doing all computer work and this sort of thing. Oh, when I say computer work, it wasn’t on a main frame but it was, was all the stuff was all set up for us to do but I did some work on the telephones and that sort of thing but there was a lot of sixty plus, sixty five plus fellows that could, they some of the companies could, instead of putting them off, give them extra time, you know, keep them employed on a, say, five days, four days, three days, because, you know, I was bored stiff for a while when I first retired and when I got this [unclear], I was a bit two-minded about going back and doing this and that was one of the best decisions I have ever made and so there for that, this is not wartime setup but the MLC they could have paid when I was in the Air Force but I was getting more money in the Air Force than I was in the MLC [laughs] so I didn’t much from it but. Had I not been in the aircrew I would have probably cause we were paid extra in the aircrew, not a lot but we were paid extra. And, yeah, so that was, I have a lot to thank the Air Force for and that’s why I’m doing, I do this work now with volunteering with doing various things on Bomber Command Association and the 463 business, anything to do with the Air Force I like doing, you know, and I meet a lot of nice people.
AP: Good. Final question. Uhm, what do you think the legacy of Bomber Command is and how you want to see it remembered?
DES: Uh, well, I don’t think we will ever see another Bomber Command, in these days we will never see another Bomber Command because the days of the, uhm, what do we call them? The, you know, the things that fly on their own? You’ll never see another Lancaster bomber bombing places, you will see atom bombs or, not atom bombs, but these other sort of, what do you call the little?
AP: Drones. Yeah.
Des: The drones, you see, just here in one of our Squadrons here now, the 462 Squadron in Adelaide, they are mixed up in drones, you see, and so, you know, I’m very proud of, uhm, joining and taking part in Bomber Command. I think they did a magnificent job; they’d had a rough trot until 1942, when they weren’t hitting their targets, [unclear] as things got better, they did the, I’m fully happy with all what the Bomber Command did. I think the world of Air Marshal Harris and I get, I get annoyed sometimes when people who want to criticize him. You know, every year I get a message from Melbourne about Dresden [laughs], which, you know, which annoys me, more than anything else, because Dresden deserved what they got, you know, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, London, Liverpool, Coventry, they all got a similar treatment and I don’t think, you know, there was a lot about Dresden that, and I’m sorry I brought that up but we know that there were a lot of people operating in Dresden which were military, they were hidden, slightly like the people today are putting, uh, children and some of these in where real targets are and there were definitely a lot of things in Dresden that deserved to be bombed and, you know, we’re at war, we had to do our best to do that but I’m quite proud of what we did in Bomber Command and I’m very, I think I finished my speech at the reflections at the Bomber Command thing in Canberra a few years ago and I was very proud and fine with Bomber Command and but I don’t think we will see another Bomber Command type of people, there will never be a group like us ever again, so I don’t’ think there is any future, but it will be done by the drones, what it’s gotta be done I think will be done by the drones and then that creates a bit of loss of life to civilians but I’m afraid when you are fighting a war it’s just, you know, it’s just the way it goes. Uhm, I don’t know, of [unclear].
AP: How do you want to see it remembered?
DES: How will I remember it?
AP: Yeah, how do you want to see it remembered, how do you want Bomber Command to be remembered.
DES: Oh, [unclear], oh, I just like the people here today to and that’s what we’re in the business with the Bomber Command Commemoration Day Foundation, we want the children of our people to carry on and thank the people of, like the 5000 who died, not us particularly but, ah yeah, the 5000 Australian airmen we hope you’ll remember them, you might forget them, as I hope you won’t forget the Vietnam people and the people who went to Korea and the people who went to [unclear]. We do remember them and I pray that they remember them on Anzac Day, uhm, but I think that, uhm, I would like to and I am amazed at, uh, the young people today that we have come into their [unclear] up to about four or five years ago and never heard of some of the things of their fathers and grandfathers had done. And I’m amazed by the number of people who came out of the woodwork to find out more about now and it’s up to us now, cause we are talking here now, it’s up to us to make sure that we get the message out to the younger people that their living today because of the sacrifice that the people made, that died over in the Bomber Command raids and that sort of thing, that they would be, uhm, might be leading a different sort of life, that they, uh, if it hadn’t been for the actions and the deeds of those who fought in Bomber Command. But I’d like them to think nicely of us and I think most of them do. I get, not amazed, but I’m really interested and pray that today for instance I’ve been talking to people that were involved and had involvements, you know, a lot of them didn’t know to a certain extent what things we’d done and how we’d helped shorten the war and that sort of thing, cause we did really and I suppose dropping the atom bomb bought us to and I’ve got no objections to the atom bomb being dropped either, it probably saved a lot of lives too. It’s a terrible thing but once, if I can say again, I’m amazed at the young people that are so interested and yet there are some families that they are not interested at all, not interested at all and parts of families, including my own, now, some of mine are not that interested, my son is and but, and I think [unclear] but one of my grandchildren is very interested. It’s on the other side but that’s their decision, we probably haven’t got the message over to them which is [unclear] and I am disappointed when I speak to some of my friends who don’t want to talk about it, it’s not boasting about these [unclear], people should know that these sort of things went on, that these, because of their actions, they’ve had fifty, sixty, seventy years of freedom here, even in Australia which might never have happened if those people hadn’t made the sacrifices that they did and volunteered and don’t forget, all the aircrew in Australia were volunteers, there was no, no one was conscripted, they were all volunteers. Yeah.
AP: Oh well, that’s the end of my questions. So.
DES: Well, that’s good. Yeah.
AP: You’ve done very well.
DES: [unclear] How long was that?
AP: That was one hour forty two.
DES: That was alright, well, that was [unclear]
Dublin Core
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ASouthwellDE160424
Title
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Interview with Don Southwell
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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IBCC Digital Archive
Type
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Sound
Language
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eng
Format
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01:42:57 audio recording
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Pending review
Creator
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Adam Purcell
Date
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2016-04-24
Description
An account of the resource
Don Southwell grew up in Australia and worked for RKO Radio Pictures and as an Air Raid Precautions Warden before volunteering for the Royal Air Force. After training in Australia and Canada, he flew nine operations as a navigator with 463 Squadron from RAF Waddington. He describes crewing up and everyday military life at the station, and gives accounts of his operations and being chased by Me 262s over Hamburg. He remembers ferrying liberated prisoners of war as part of Operation Exodus.
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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Australia
Canada
Czech Republic
Germany
Great Britain
New South Wales
Alberta--Edmonton
Czech Republic--Plzeň
England--Brighton
England--Leicestershire
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Essen
Germany--Leipzig
New South Wales--Sydney
California--San Francisco
United States
California
Alberta
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Sussex
Contributor
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Peter Schulze
Temporal Coverage
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1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
29 OTU
463 Squadron
467 Squadron
aircrew
Anson
bombing
crewing up
fear
Lancaster
Me 262
memorial
mess
military living conditions
military service conditions
navigator
Operation Exodus (1945)
Operational Training Unit
perception of bombing war
RAF Bruntingthorpe
RAF Waddington
RAF West Freugh
Stirling
superstition
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/171/2319/AtkinsAH1501.1.jpg
830d36dbb0e2983788b5232c59af5c29
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/171/2319/AAtkinsA151121.1.mp3
a335b230e07e85171cab65215eb6d2d2
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Atkins, Arthur
A H Atkins
Description
An account of the resource
24 items. An oral history interview with Arthur Atkins DFC (d. 2022, Royal Australian Air Force), his logbook and 23 photographs. Arthur Atkins grew up in Melbourne, Australia and joined the RAAF. After training he flew 32 operations as a pilot with 625 Squadron from RAF Kelstern.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Arthur Atkins and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Date
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2017-01-05
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
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Atkins, A
Conforms To
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Pending additional content
Transcribed audio recording
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Transcription
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AP: So this interview for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive is with Arthur Atkins, a 625 squadron Lancaster pilot during the Second World War. The interview is taking place at Arthur’s house in Kew in Melbourne. My name’s Adam Purcell. It’s the 21st of November 2015. Arthur we’ll start from the beginning if you don’t mind.
AA: Right.
AP: Tell us something of your early life, what you were doing growing up, and what you did before the war.
AA: Yeah well I was born at 212 Prospect Hill Road in, Prospect Hill Road oh what was the suburb? Surrey Hills, Surrey Hills. Then we moved to Canterbury when I was about eight or nine and I attended the Canterbury state school up to grade six. Then the equivalent of grade seven I started Scotch College. I was there for six years and I mainly concentrated on business subjects because that’s what I thought I would be going into and I did. I worked in an insurance company for about three or four years. I didn’t do any flying then but I, when I was a small boy and I was in the Cubs, you know, the junior Boy Scouts, they, one Saturday afternoon, we went down to the old airfield on Coode Island and I had my first flight in an aeroplane at about the age of nine, I should think. Eight or nine. Two cubs in the one cockpit. I don’t know who sat on whose knee. I can’t remember that but we were both in the cockpit half standing looking out over each side I should imagine but that was my first experience of flying and then I entered the Sun News Pictorial’s competition for someone most likely to fly, be able to fly an aeroplane and they’d get a free instruction to pilot licence but I didn’t, I didn’t win. There was, I think there was about a hundred people went for it and I was just one of them. I flew the aeroplane, an old Avro Avian I think it was. Single engine thing. I flew it for a little while because I’d flown model planes a lot and I knew exactly what it should do. I thought I did alright but no, I didn’t win it but then in my last year at Scotch I went in, tried to get in to the Point Cook pilot’s training system. I think there was about twenty vacancies or something and I think there was about two thousand people volunteered for it so I didn’t get that one either. However, when the war broke out I got in to the army militia I think in the middle of 1944. Well, that was alright. I didn’t mind it. September ‘44 it was and I had three months. September, October, November. I decided I’d get out so one day when I was on leave I called in to the recruiting office in Russell Street, for the Air Force that is, and they immediately signed me up. Gave me a piece of paper showing that I was a member of the RAAF and my rank was AC2. Aircraftman class 2. And then I had to attend about three times a week at various places to fit me for going into the initial training school. Mathematics and so on. Anyway, I got in and I, that was in nineteen, but the thing was going on to the reserve where I had to do these exercises and so on, lectures, about a fortnight before Pearl Harbour. This. About two weeks before that and the date of that is, December the 7th. I think it was about November the 20th or something that I enlisted in the Air Force. Just as well because I wouldn’t have been able to get out of the, the army as easily as I did and I was unfortunately of course it was mid-winter at Somers. Coldest place I’ve been in my life and some people used to wear their pyjamas under everything else because they only gave us very sort of flimsy one-piece overalls to wear in the midwinter at Somers. By September things were looking up a bit and I finished the course then and they called me in to tell me where I’d be going to next as everyone had depending on your results and they said, ‘We want to make you a navigator,’ because I was very good at mathematics at that stage and I was also a qualified accountant at that stage but I said, ‘No. I don’t want to be a navigator. I want to fly the aeroplanes. Thanks.’ And they said, ‘Well, you came top of your course.’ Course number 28 at Somers. ‘So you actually have a choice of what you’re going to do.’ They didn’t tell me that at first. Only when I objected to being a navigator. And they said well seeing you came top you can choose to train as a pilot and I went up to Benalla and flew Tiger Moths. I was there for two or three months. It’s all there in the logbook but Benalla was good fun flying the Tigers. I never broke one or landed one badly or anything like that and I came out of that alright and they sent me then after about three months, around about Christmastime ’44, ‘44 I suppose it would have been. No, no, would have been Christmas, Christmas ‘43 because I got to England in, in ‘43. Yeah, it would have been ’42. Yeah. Christmas ‘42 would have been the date I finished at Benalla and went to Mallala, South Australia about forty miles north of Adelaide. Looked like the desert and felt like it. I think it was a hundred and eight degrees for three or four days on one occasion and the beds inside the iron huts were that hot you couldn’t sit on the iron bedsteads because they were too hot to be comfortable. But anyway that was, it was quite good. I was there for, until about April or May. Mallala, South Australia, yeah, I’ll put my glasses on. I can read what I’ve written. Yeah. Yeah so I left Mallala on the, in April ‘43 and went to Ascot Vale showgrounds and I was there, only there for two or three weeks with, and fortunately I had a friend I was with, a fella named David Browne and we used to just wander around the city for a while doing nothing just waiting for something to happen and then finally in May, about the middle of April, 25th of April I was sent to Point Cook to do a course on blind approach. That is flying the beam in to land and had quite a bit of other, other work too. In fact, for about ten days I was in charge of the control tower at Point Cook. Not that any accidents ever happened so I wasn’t tested there. I just looked out the window and talked to the, the blokes from the fire cart and the ambulance from down below the control tower and I remember saying, ‘What happens if something goes wrong? What am I supposed to do?’ They said, ‘Send a signal.’ ‘Signal?’ I said. ‘What’s a signal?’ Apparently they meant send some sort of a telegram to, to someone or other. The boss of the group, of that particular group. Anyway, that only lasted a little while and then I was on flying there on Oxfords. Airspeed Oxfords. Mostly under the hood, you know, blind flying on the beam. After that I went to Bradfield Park in Sydney just prior to catching a boat to San Francisco and they put us on a, an American, converted to troopship so a small, sort of, it had been a coastal [trader] I think or something like that. Proper steam steamship called the Mount Vernon which was something to do with George Washington’s home town or something like that and we headed out across towards New Zealand. I was seasick but my friend David Browne wasn’t. I was a bit envious of him. He could still eat these rather sickly, sickly looking thick drinks that he used to get from the canteen while I was chuntering out over the rail. And we got in, finally we got in to New Zealand on the North Island. Auckland. And that was quite interesting. We got off the ship. We were allowed to stay to see New Zealand in four hours so we did that and two or three, there was a group of two or three of us just walking along in Auckland somewhere and we got picked up by a couple of girls who said, ‘Come home and have dinner with us.’ You know, and being generous to the troops so we followed them and went home and spoke to all their family and had a very nice dinner, the three of us, for nothing, you know, just because we happened to be in navy blue uniforms and the New Zealanders had the grey blue uniform of the RAF. But a funny thing happened. While we were just lolling around after dinner the fiancé or boyfriend of one of the girls arrived at the front door and everyone was a little bit embarrassed about that, picking up strange troops, you know, foreign troops, on in the street. So we said, ‘Oh well, we’re off now anyway. Thank you very much,’ we went back to the boat but the bloke who came to the front door was wearing a New Zealand Air Force uniform. He’d been on some island, I think, just north of New Zealand somewhere on duty and he’d just got some leave to come back to Auckland. Anyway, we got back on the boat and then the next thing we knew we’d, we were pulling into San Francisco harbour and sailing under the Golden Gate Bridge escorted in the last part of the trip to there by a blimp and we also saw a submarine. And there was a bloke working on a ship unloading it or loading it. An American ship alongside where we were and a couple of blokes sang out to him, ‘What are you doing sport?’ or something like that. He said, ‘Go home limey.’ [laughs] He thought we were British. He’d probably never heard of Australia. And while we were, we had about a month in America which was one of the most delightful times of my whole life because the Americans were very generous at handing out food, lifts here and there. We went down to New York on one occasion and we had a weekend in New York, in New York in 1943 which not many people from Australia ever experienced. And up, up the, up all the skyscrapers, the Empire State, and we went around to the theatre where the Rockets were dancing around the stage, about a dozen of them, high kicking on the stage. That that was sort of interesting. But then we, we found out that we could go in to any of the night clubs and just have a drink at the bar, and pay for it but you couldn’t sit down. You didn’t have to pay fifty dollars like the Yanks had to, to go in and sit down at a table. We could just go in and stand at the, at the bar and have a drink and watch what was going on and at one stage we were in the Astor Roof Nightclub and the band leader who was Harry, someone or other. Betty Grable, his girlfriend or wife, was sitting in the front row near the band. We were in the table a bit further back. We’d been, we were standing at the bar, a couple of friends and myself, air force people, and this bloke came over and said, ‘Would you like to sit at our table.’ I think there must have been just the two of us by that stage. One of them had gone off somewhere else and I said, ‘Yeah, that’s alright,’ and he sat us down at a table. He had his wife and two women. Married women probably. And we made up a nice party of six people all at his expense. Very good. Then we went back to his hotel afterwards and had a few whiskies I think, if I remember rightly. But that was how the Americans were with us. They asked some funny questions like, ‘Where did you learn to speak English?’ at times. I think they thought we came from Austria or something. Confused Austria with Australia. So, they didn’t know much about Australia, the Americans but we had, in New York, we had all the, comforts like free food, free breakfasts and so on that they had. Then a little later we got on to the Queen Elizabeth which was to take us to England or Scotland actually and it set off and I think there was a half a dozen of us together got into the, into the cabin which was allocated to us. Seven of us got into the cabin but there were only four, four, four bunks in it but fortunately I was one of the early ones getting in. I got one of the bunks. The last man in got the floor. Four days. The Queen Elizabeth mark one it was of course at that stage zigzagged all the way across the Pacific, the, sorry, the Atlantic to Scotland, one way, alternate turning movements you know with not all exactly the same but, so that was to fool any submarines that were watching and I think they, they said the speed they were doing at one stage was forty knots, the Queen Elizabeth. Well that’s about what forty five miles an hour or something like that. Not bad for a big boat like that. Anyway, nothing happened to us. We didn’t even see any submarines. Oh but yes that boat we travelled to in New Zealand and San Francisco on got sunk about three trips later by a Japanese torpedo so I’m lucky to be here. Anyway, the boat pulled in and then we went down to Brighton on the train. The same day the boat pulled in in the morning we got, all climbed on a train and went straight to Brighton in Sussex on the south coast. That was a beautiful time too. I liked Brighton. I could have stayed there for years but they only left us there for weeks and sent us to an RAF station at Andover. There wasn’t much flying going on there. I didn’t notice any. We were only there for, what, a couple of weeks doing ground subjects. Learning the way the RAF worked but the one thing I did notice we had a very nice room to sleep in and we had, we were all sergeants then by the way. The RAF conditions were way and above anything the Australian Air Force had ever thought of and you know we had people to clean the huts, sweep the floors out, make the beds and it was just like officers would have got in Australia if they were lucky and then and weren’t living in New Guinea or something like that but that was okay and then the next move was to Greenham Common where we were once again flying Airspeed Oxfords and an interesting thing happened the first day we were there. We got there in the afternoon and a couple of us, a couple of other fellas and myself walked out across the airfield the airfield a bit. Down one end of it where they, and they weren’t flying at the time we walked there. Must have been late in the afternoon. Anyway, we got to the runway and there was a big black patch about fifty or sixty feet across and we went and had a look at the black patch and we could see someone’s braces ends here and a bit of red meat there and so on. Someone had crashed an Oxford the night before and had burned out and they hadn’t scraped everything off the runway. They’d got most of him but they probably put a few bricks in the coffin because I was detailed because my name started with A and I was just taken off the top of the list and told, ‘You’re going to carry this coffin and load it on the train this morning.’ And that was my introduction to RAF flying, carrying what remained of the pilot to the local railway station where we shoved it into the guards van and said, ‘Goodbye Sport,’ and that was it. After that there was no accidents that I can remember at Greenham Common. We were flying, practicing flying on Oxfords and I got a, above average rating for flying Oxfords there because I’d had all that practice flying them at Point Cook. A bit unfair but I didn’t knock it back but then we went to a little place from Greenham to an airfield called Long Newnton. Long Newnton N E W N T O N. A pilots’ advanced flying unit. Well so was Greenham Common. That was 15 PAFU. They moved out, moved them all out because the Americans wanted somewhere to land, to store their invasion gliders so they shifted us from Greenham Common to Long Newnton and I remember we all got loaded into a bus or train or something and got out at the local station or was dumped off at the airfield at Long Newnton. Of course we didn’t hang around there. We thought we’d wander down and have a beer at the local pub. It wasn’t very far from the airfield. We walked in to the pub in the Cotswolds it was. The Cotswolds. And as we, we went into the bar and there was a couple of blokes in there. They must have been farmers. They were wearing just ordinary clothes which was a bit unusual in England at that time to find ordinary civilians in odd little clubs, they were mostly in uniform of some sort. And one of them said to me, ‘What do you think of the Cotswolds?’ I said, ‘Cotswolds? Is that where we are?’ And we were in the Cotswolds. I’d heard of them of course. I knew almost as much about the geography of England as I did of Victoria because I’d, you know, been buying books when I was a kid. All English comics and so on and a book called “Modern Boy” or something which consisted mostly of aeroplanes and steam trains and so on and we found it was quite a pleasant place, Long Newnton and we just continued to fly our Airspeed Oxfords there and train on them but we had one bad experience. We had to do night flying. Night, night cross-countries. A triangular course. You’d fly north, then northwest, then south west and bring yourself back to the, to the base. Navigating in the dark. Just flying on instruments and if you missed, missed one of the beacons, they had beacons were flashing lights like A for one of, one of the turning points and perhaps F or something for the next turning points. You had to know your Morse code so you knew where you were and then you knew where you were and one of our blokes didn’t come back. You know, it was all at night. Black as night. And England was black as pitch most of the places except for the odd airfields and the beacons, air force beacons like that. I think they were red but I can’t quite remember. There were two types. There was red beacons and white beacons and we were flying on the, I think the red beacons but he didn’t come back and we were just waiting around. Waited around for about another hour or so and someone came out and said, ‘You can all go home now. We’re cancelling the, the, the rest of the exercise tonight. That bloke’s crashed his Oxford and killed himself and we won’t be doing any more flying tonight.’ But it didn’t stop all the flying the next day. But after we’d spent a fair bit of time flying Oxfords we were put on to Wellingtons at um where was it? Lichfield, in the Midlands. 27 OTU. We never flew them. They, some, they split this particular group I was in into two parts. One of them, one part stayed at Lichfield and did all the practising on Wellingtons and the rest and the other half of the group did the Wellington flying at a place called Church Broughton. Church Broughton. And that was where I had my experience with one engine and when we were doing practicing circuits and bumps on approaches on one engine. Then you’d fire both of them up together and not actually land. Just practicing flying around on the one engine on the port engine. The starboard engine was, let me see, no, I think we had to, yeah, we had to power off on the port engine and just use the starboard engine for getting around. On the Wellington you weren’t supposed to fly against the good engine because, I don’t know, there was some reason for it. The Wellington didn’t have enough spare [?] in it to just fly very well on one engine and if you flew against the good engine you could be giving yourself a bit of bother. You mightn’t be able to control it. So, when the starboard engine went out and I was doing a left hand circuit as usual I didn’t quite know what to do and because, according to the rules we should have done a very big circuit around to starboard and landed and done a clockwise circuit. It was always anti-clockwise normal landing circuits in the RAF except on special occasions when the airfield mightn’t have suited a clock, an anti-clockwise approach. After that, well I was on Halifaxes. Halifaxes. Yeah, I haven’t got a picture of one of those here. They, they were quite good. We were flying Halifaxes for a month and, oh yes because I, with this engine off getting back to the Wellington with the crook starboard engine it was still giving some half power but there were sparks and things and black smoke coming out the back of it from somewhere and it had it there. We knew the engine had had it but I just, because it was giving us a little bit of power, I kept going on the anti-clockwise circuit and landed. Did a quite good landing too. Smooth landing but when we came to a stop on the runway and I tried to fire the engines up to taxi back to our parking spot I couldn’t do that. It just kept going around in circuits on the, on the good engine so we had to, we were all fitted with radio of course so I called up the control tower and said, ‘Send us out a tractor. You’re going to have to drag us in. We can’t taxi,’ and I got into trouble for not bailing the crew out which I’d never heard of them doing just because they had lost an engine and what else didn’t I do right? Oh I should have feathered the, feathered the propeller on the starboard engine. All good experience and I said, ‘Well it was still giving me a bit of power so I used it to pull us around into, into the landing, landing position.’ They said, ‘Oh that’s no good. You should have, you should have bailed the crew out and feathered the engine.’ Well I’d never had those instructions. I didn’t argue after that because he was, Australian he was the flight commander. He was a sour puss, I noticed, always. He got sourer than ever when I came back next day and he found the engine had to be changed but at least he didn’t have to change the bloody Wellington and he didn’t have to change the crew. They, we wouldn’t if I had bailed them out by the time they all got out I don’t think all their parachutes would have held them, held them up off, would have opened quickly enough to save them but that didn’t oh worry him. He just didn’t like, didn’t like the rest of us I think for coming in safely and not feathering one engine but I’ve read a lot of stories about Wellingtons trying to land on one engine and about fifty percent of them crashed and killed the crew. It’s probably through the wrong engine going or something like that. I don’t know. Anyway, after that we were on the Halifaxes. They were alright but we had a few worrying moments. The Halifax had four engines of course and there were a lot of Halifax squadrons flying at that time but they were mostly flying on the radial engine Halifaxes. What, we were training on the ones that had been rejected for operations and had the old early model Merlin V12 engines, you know and they had various faults. The Halifax used to have a bad habit of swinging to the left when you landed it. I was warned about that. Then I found out afterwards that they ran out of brakes. If you did, if you did a fair bit of taxiing you found you couldn’t, your brakes had ran out of air or vacuum or something. I don’t know whether they were vacuum brakes or air brakes but the brakes didn’t work if you’d run out of certain, certain distance. Anyway, the first landing I did in a Halifax, they were still using it for bombing here and there, the first landing I did in a Halifax I did a very smooth landing. I always did smooth landings and I was very pleased with myself. We just coasted down the runway just about, you know, ready to turn off in a cross runway and back to the parking area and suddenly the Halifax, I was quite relaxed, suddenly it swung around to the left like I’d been warned about, ‘Don’t let it swing on you.’ Well, I took that with a grain of salt and didn’t take a great deal of notice but fortunately, the, er the instructor who’d actually had done a couple of circuits with me on this practising single engine flying had got out and he wasn’t watching us. He saw us come in to land and he thought that was very good, got on his bike and rode off to the mess and then by the time the, the Halifax swung around to the left and did a circle, a half a circle on the grass he was in the mess on his pushbike, with his pushbike and no one in the control tower said a word to us about it afterwards. Anyway, it swung so far we went down the runaway and swung right around and was facing the way we came, on the grass. It swung to the left. The, I think the Lancasters had a, a tendency to swing to the right. You had to, when you, when you flew a Lancaster with the four throttles in your hand you had to push one further forward to, to stop the thing turning or running off the runway. When you were taking off that was. They were alright when you were landing her but they had a little tendency when you put the full power on to go one way or the other so you had the four throttles in one hand. You pushed one throttle ahead of the other. I don’t know whether it was the little finger or the first finger. I think the Lancaster tended to swing to the right. Well if it did you’d have to put a bit more power on the, on the outer, starboard outer engine to prevent that swing. But anyway, I, I just taxied the Halifax which was on the grass facing the way we’d come in, taxied on, got it back on the runway, took it down to where we parked it, got the truck back to the or our bikes probably at that stage, bikes back to the mess and nothing was said by anyone. Not even flying control. They hadn’t seen it and the instructor hadn’t seen it so we didn’t say anything to anyone about it but it was good experience though and I never did it again. I landed Halifaxes practically every day for the next month but I never swung off the runway again. I was watching it. You couldn’t relax until the thing had stopped, stopped rolling at your, at your parking spot. Then we went to a place called, I was commissioned by that time. I, I started off as a flight sergeant at, on the Halifaxes at, at Blyton which is in Lincolnshire and I was a sergeant pilot for a couple of weeks and then I was, I went to London and got my uniform as a pilot officer and lived in the officers’ mess which was not, nothing very special but it was better than, better than the sergeants’ mess but not much. Not much better but I liked that and I didn’t have to hand in my old uniform either. I’ve still got it. I think it’s in a trunk upstairs in the roof, roof space with a couple of officers’ uniforms. But I did alright with Halifaxes and the next move was to Lancasters at what was known as Number 1 Lancaster Finishing School at, at, Hemswell, Hemswell in Lincolnshire and we had about a fortnight there I think at Hemswell and then we were given a bit of a run-around at various holding units for a couple of days until we were, we’d finished our ten-day course at at Hemswell. Eleven days to be precise. Number 1 Lancaster Finishing School. No problems there at all. I’d had my problems with the Halifax and the Wellington. Hemswell was a piece of cake until we got to our operational station called erm Kelstern. I should remember that. It’s on the front of the house. Kelstern. And we were immediately given leave to go to London. You know, they probably had their hands full at the time. It was a busy station so we had a week in London on leave. Of course all this other stuff we had, weeks in London or the countryside and I went, used to get a ticket to Scotland, the northernmost railway station in Scotland so I could go anywhere between Lincolnshire or wherever I was. I wasn’t necessarily even in Lincolnshire. I could have been in the Midlands and I would just get a train. I think it was third class while I was a sergeant and first class when I was a pilot officer but I normally travelled third class because I found there were more interesting people to talk to in third class than in first class on those trains. And, um where was I? Oh yes when we finished our London, London leave on Kelstern which was 625 squadron they sent me up on a flying, on a, just a flight around the local neighbourhood to get used to the area and the approach to landing and so on. In a Lancaster of course because I was fully qualified Lancaster pilot by that time. Ten days at the Number 1 Lancaster Finishing School. Ten days instruction on Lancasters and low and behold we were just flying around the countryside admiring the scenery and then the flight engineer says to me. ‘The starboard outer engine is overheating.’ Cheers. [laughs] I’d learned my lesson so I just said, ‘Well feather the engine. Feather the prop. Turn it off and feather it.’ So we continued our flying on three engines, two on the left side and one on the starboard side and I had flown them on three engines. In fact I’d flown them at LFS on two engines and I knew they handled perfectly well on three engines so I didn’t hesitate to feather the, to shut that starboard engine down and feather the props so we just landed and I can remember the Lanc flew almost exactly the same on three engines, two on one side and one on the other, you know, on the approach to the strip, to the runway and just did a normal landing, and we just taxied it on the two inner engines to its parking spot and I, I said to the flight sergeant in charge, ‘You’d better have a look at that engine. It’s not working.’ He said, ‘Ok.’ The next day I went out to see how he’d got on with it and he said, ‘Oh there was nothing wrong with the engine. It was just the sender on the, and it wasn’t overheating it was just a sender on the, on the engine itself was faulty and it was sending out the wrong message to the gauge on the, the, um flight engineers panel.’ He had, he had the gauges in front of him. He could, he used to watch. And then I knew I’d got on to a good aeroplane. A couple of days later we were on our first operation because we’d had our leave. It didn’t take long for them to put us on to ops and about half of our crew flew with the remains of another crew piloted by a bloke called Flight Officer Slade and flight officer is not an RAF rank. It’s an American Air Force rank and he was an American and he wore a khaki uniform, the American flying uniform and when he was around in the mess or something he had on the American officer’s uniform. A flight officer, an American flight officer, was the equivalent of a pilot officer in the RAF. But that, that trip, oh when we were flying Wellingtons of course we did a lot of night flying too and we did fly over, over France one night with a load of leaflets and this was in the Wellington and that was all we carried. We had two cans. Two small bomb container cans which were about six foot long by eighteen inches high and wide packed tight with leaflets and when you got to the correct spot the bomb aimer who was down in the nose pressed the right button and the bottom of the canister after he’d opened the bomb doors of course and all the leaflets fluttered down below. Well, for some reason or other he had a nervous attack just before he, he had to release the leaflets over Chartres was the town about forty miles south, southwest of France. Anyway, we got to Chartres alright or the bomb aimer reckoned we were over Chartres so he pressed the button and in his haste he pressed the wrong button and this great canister, six foot long canister packed tight with leaflets hanging on a bomb hook disappeared from the aeroplane and went down with all its leaflets packed tight. When we got back they wanted to know where the, where the other canister was. I mean it could have killed someone, that canister, if it had landed on someone or put a big hole in the roof of the Chartres cathedral. I believe they have a cathedral in Chartres but we never heard any more about that apart from the bombing, bombing leader quizzing the, our bomb aimer as to why he’d just come back with one empty container and he had to explain what had happened. One of the reasons it might have happened because when we were crossing just before we were crossing the French coast heading for Chartres, this was at night of course, someone in the crew said, ‘There’s a searchlight on us.’ Well of course that rattled everyone including the bomb aimer. Searchlights. And after a while we found the searchlight was following us. Well searchlights are not mobile. Not that mobile.
AP: [not that fast] anyway.
AA: And I found someone had knocked the switch. It could have been me. It could have been anyone else on the crew. It could have been the ground staff left it switched on and knocked the switch that turned the landing lights on. Well, in the Wellington the landing light normally, not being used, points straight down. When you want to use it you pull a lever and it swings the landing light forward on a hinge so that it points forward where you’re going to land. We never used it, we never used landing lights all the time, the RAF weren’t using them at the time because they had such good flare paths. Electric flare paths. Anyway, this light followed us and it wasn’t until we were well over the coast, flying over German occupied France with this bright light shining straight down and all I can think was the Germans must have looked at that and said, ‘Oh well that’s someone practicing. It wouldn’t be a foreign plane you know, flying with a light like, on like that,’ so they didn’t bother sending anyone up to investigate. I was lucky. Every now and again someone got shot down on those exploits. They called them nickels. N I C K E L S. Nickels. Dropping leaflets and practically everyone had to do a nickel as part of their course on the Wellingtons so we did ours. Anyway, we, he got the right switch for the second one, he didn’t drop that. He just opened the bottom and all the leaflets went flutter, flutter, flutter down to, down to the cathedral underneath, hopefully. Or just the town of Chartres, I don’t know where they went. Might have all gone down on someone’s farm. That was a bit nerve-wracking especially when we found the searchlight was on us. The next time I found a searchlight was on us when we were bombing um a town in Germany. It was the, er, near Frankfurt, just a little town southwest of Frankfurt where there was a General Motors factory. General Motors, USA. Opel. It was just described as an Opel factory which was still a General Motors subsidiary at that, well it was had been a subsidiary of German motors for some time. The Opels. Opel cars. And we had to do a turn on a town south, south of Frankfurt. It turned out to be a fairly hot town because approaching this town of, let’s see. I’ll just um [shuffling of papers] yeah I started my tour on Bomber Command in, in July. On the 4th of July, that was my first, with Flight Officer Slade. There, just trying to work oh Russelsheim. The Opel works at Russelsheim. That’s where the factory was and we had a turning point of probably about sixty or eighty miles south of Rüsselsheim. We were flying eastward. Basically directly east and then we had to turn north and fly north to Rüsselsheim. That’s right. Rüsselsheim and the turning point was over a town called Mannheim. Now, it was a stupid place to have a turning point because that had been bombed quite a few times and it was full of anti-aircraft guns and searchlights and we could see the searchlights and we could see anti-aircraft fire bursting in front of us as we approached, approached Mannheim and it wasn’t very long before we got picked up by a blue tinged searchlight, radar controlled from what we were told. We’d heard about these blue tinged searchlights, blue lights, and they were directly controlled by radar from the ground and if the radar picked up a Lancaster flying they could just about pinpoint it with the searchlights but they would have needed about five, about five hundred radar controllers down below to pick up every one but they used to pick out one and have a go at it. Well, instead of everything being black we got his blinding light lighting up the whole plane. I could hardly see the instruments because I was blinded. I had, you know, flying through the night to get your night vision then suddenly a thousand candle power light’s shining in your face practically and I remember thinking, ‘Jesus I’ve done all this training and now I’m going to be killed,’ I thought to myself. I pushed the stick forward fortunately and she dived quickly and I immediately lost the blue tinged searchlights. You see, when they, when they put that blue tinged light had about another half a dozen focussed on you. They could see the blue light and they, they, we had about six searchlights altogether lighting us up but we lost the light. Immediately black as pitch. And we went into a manoeuvre called the corkscrew and you sort of fly in a down to your left. Then when you are half way down to where you’re going you turn to the right and keep diving. You’re diving. You’re going very fast and then when you get down over to the right you swing it to the left and come up again and do two or three of those. Well, we were basically told that they were, you know, to evade, avoid if you get a fighter behind you if you get the words from the rear gunner, ‘There’s a fighter on you. Go into a corkscrew,’ at night and mostly we flew at night anyway. Half the time we flew at night and half the time I flew in daylight. That was, that was a different thing altogether but and you could go into the corkscrew. That was all I could think to do and I looked at the instrument panel, the airspeed indicator, just as we got near the bottom of where I was going to pull out and I think I was doing four hundred miles an hour. The top diving speed of a Lancaster at that time was three hundred and sixty miles an hour. So we were doing four hundred miles an hour. Actually, it was calibrated in knots. I’ve converted it to miles an hour and we had a full bomb load on. Rüsselheim, yeah we had a four thousand pound bomb on. That’s the high explosive one. What did they call that? They used to have a nickname for that one. Blockbuster or something like that and I don’t know what the other ones were but um oh yes we had just one high explosive bomb, one four thousand and the rest were incendiaries. It made a nasty mess if it landed on you. Anyway, it was a total of, oh I don’t know what it would be, about six or seven thousand pounds sitting underneath us so I was very careful to pull out gently from the bottom of the dive. I didn’t want to leave the wings behind which could have happened to us if you did it quickly. I think on that same raid I saw a picture of a Lancaster that came back with, with both of its ailerons useless. He’d dived too fast and pulled out to fast like the same thing I did but I pulled out fairly gently. I knew quite a bit about flying aeroplanes theoretically as well as, as well as practically and I knew you couldn’t pull out quickly ‘cause I knew what could happen but it didn’t so we just carried on and bombed the, bombed the General Motors plant and then came home again. That was one of the most interesting ones. Another interesting trip I did much later though. We did, did this trip out over the Bay of Biscay. There was an estuary, the Gironde Estuary not far from the, what would have been the Spanish border of Spain and, and the Bay of Biscay, French coast but anyway this Gironde Estuary, oh there’s some wineries up there, up the Gironde. Someone heard I’d bombed near the wineries. He said, ‘Well you’re lucky you didn’t bomb the wineries because I wouldn’t be speaking to you if you’d spoilt my, spilt my wine.’ But we didn’t. We flew from Kelstern almost due south right down to the south coast, then turned right, south, just before the south coast and flew down out to Lands End and at that stage flying to Lands End we took it down to fifty feet going over Lands End and we flew all the way around out into the Atlantic at fifty feet. Fortunately, it was a very fine day and not much wind and round in a big wide circle fifty feet all the way. I think we had four hundred Lancasters on that one. Something like that. And we had an escort though to fly over the Bay of Biscay, escorted of long range Mosquitos, fighters, in case some German type decided to have a go at us but, no one, no one showed up because we were flying at fifty feet. That was to be under the German radar of course and they never spotted us till us we were over, over the river and then they didn’t have time to get, get there and do anything. We’d gone by the time they woke up to what happened but I remember we did this two days running. We did it was the same, same town almost, almost the same spot in the Gironde Estuary. We came hammering over the Bay of Biscay at fifty feet. As we got to the coast we had to rise up a bit because there was about a thirty foot lump of hillocks and trees and stuff there so we went up a bit and as we crossed the beach I looked down and there was an old horse. You could see it was an old horse because we were only fifty or thirty feet from him looking down. It was slightly to my left just plodding along. An old draft horse it was and the driver was sitting up on the cart. He didn’t look up and the horse didn’t look up. No one, neither of them looked up. We just shot over the top of them at about thirty feet above them because they had come up on this slight rise, this twenty foot rise from the, from the sand where the estuary started and I don’t know what happened to them afterwards. We didn’t drop anything or do anything nasty to them. They were probably French anyway. Not that that would have stopped me if I’d, if I’d had to bomb them but we didn’t have to bomb them. We just went along the estuary until we found the fuel oil tanks that we were going to do a bit of damage to. They were, they were used from time to time by submarines that’d sail up this estuary at night and fill up there. We were, this flight was in daylight of course. Beautiful day. No wind hardly. Blue skies. Not a cloud in the sky. A delightful day. I think I had my twenty sixth birthday that day so I got a nice birthday present. A nice trip to southern of France to the Gironde Estuary at fifty feet over the Bay of Biscay and we dropped bombs on it and I’ve got photographs of the, of the target area with a ship lying on its side. It wouldn’t have been our bomb because it was someone in front of me rolled the ship over with a bomb. He was supposed to bomb the tanks but he might have just bombed the ship instead. Now that was, that was August the 5th. I know that because it was my birthday the next day. No. August the 4th that’s right. August the 5th was my birthday. The second, the next day we, we did exactly the same route. Flew down to the south coast of England, turned right, almost to the south coast, and went down through Somerset and all those places to Lands End and off the end of Lands End at fifty feet, gradually taking it down to fifty feet as we got near Lands End. And this was the second day and we were all going hell for leather towards the er the Gironde Estuary as usual at a little town call Pauillac. P A U I L L A C. Pauillac. This was the second day and they were both, both in Pauillac but slightly different positions in Pauillac and we had ten thousand pounds of bombs on board approximately. Ten thousand five hundred pounds of bombs carrying on that one and it took us seven hours fifty five minutes altogether but as we were approaching the estuary out over the bay the rear gunner called up, ‘Someone’s going in.’ I looked around and there was a great splash of water still hanging in the air. One of the Lancs had dived into the, into the water but what had happened he’d collided with one of his friends from the same squadron. They were showing how close they could fly together which was the last thing they ever did. One of them survived but one didn’t. Anyway, on that, that, that occasion we, we didn’t go back to Kelstern because there was something wrong with the weather by the time we’d gone. To have two bright, sunny days over England in a row was a bit unusual and it was just the usual thing you know. It had clouded over or something. This was August. Well August can be cloudy or it can be very nice in England. Yeah but anyway it was too cloudy or foggy or something to land there so we landed at a different airfield, a place called Gamston. Gamston. That was a Wellington training base I think, at the time. Gamston. So they had a nice, nice long runway. One interesting thing happened with that. We had to just fly back to our base next door. We just had one night there sitting in chairs, sleeping in chairs, in the mess. Well the next day we returned, the weather cleared at Kelstern. Took us fifteen minutes to get from Gamston in the Midlands, more or less, to Kelstern in Lincolnshire and I remember taking off. I didn’t think, didn’t think of it at the time but we didn’t need to take off like we had nine thousand pounds of bombs on board at all. You know, we had very little fuel. See, that trip was a fairly long trip. Took us almost eight hours in the air and we didn’t have much petrol left when we got back and they didn’t fill it up. They said, ‘Oh you’ve got enough fuel to get back to’ [Gamston], or to ‘Kelstern alright.’ I just took off as usual and as usual was I usually took off in a Lancaster with about fifteen thousand pounds of bombs on it something like that and about two thousand gallons of petrol which I carried on a short trip and I just opened the throttles up and she lifted off, off the ground in about two hundred yards or less, a hundred and seventy, a hundred and eighty yards or something. Just floated up in to the air. I realised then that I didn’t need to open it up to full bore really. I could have probably opened up and we’d never been trained to take off a Lancaster when it was a light load. You were always shown how to take off in a Lancaster as fast as possible with the load that you’d got but of course I flew it a few times with only a light load and I knew what I was doing but the excitement of the trip and seeing the Lancasters behind us causing a great splash in the Bay of Biscay had changed, took my mind off what I was doing I suppose but up she went and we were home in about ten minutes or fifteen minutes I put down here I think. Fifteen minutes trip back to Kelstern. That includes landing it too. And that was about halfway through my tour but we kept going various places. Le Havre, that’s right on the French coast when they, they were trying to get Germans out of the forts that they had or buildings they had taken over in Le Havre which is on the coast of France opposite England. We bombed them in daylight of course. Half of my trips were in daylight. Sixteen. I did thirty two altogether. I did one more than I really needed to so sixteen night and fifteen day or something like that and I used to like the daylight ones because you’d look up and you’d see about two hundred spitfires and about a hundred something else, American fighters, sitting above you, about one or two thousand feet just above where you were flying so we mostly did our, our operations at about fifteen thousand feet. Frankfurt for instance. We did that at about seventeen thousand eight hundred feet. That was a good one. I liked Frankfurt. That was the night one of my best friends on 467 squadron, which is an Australian squadron near, near the town of Lincoln. Just south, south east I think of Lincoln. 467 squadron. I think you mentioned you had a friend in 467 squadron. Yeah, Bomber Command, 467 squadron crew. A relative of yours -
AP: Correct
AA: Flew. Right?
AP: Yeah. A few months before that but yes.
AA: Yeah. Yeah. So he was in March or April.
AP: May, it was.
AA: Yeah, 10th of May that’s right. Yeah, well I had this friend of mine in, in, in 467 squadron he was a deputy flight commander and he said they’re having a very rough time at the moment because people are getting shot down all the time including our flight commanders and they made him a deputy flight commander as a flight lieutenant which was one rank higher than I was. I was a flying officer but fortunately for us I wasn’t in a, in a squadron where they were having a lot of calamities. It was just a little less than average. I think it was because I think it was because it was a more disciplined squadron. The RAF was a lot more disciplined than the RAAF. Particularly the RAAF squadrons in England. They were noted for a bit of a lack of doing the right thing a lot of the time. I know they didn’t do the right thing by me because I visited, that Australian squadron, 460 squadron at Binbrook two or three times for various reasons. Sometimes to deliver a Lancaster there or bring one back from there. It was only about four miles from us because the, the, and the circuits interlinked so you had to be a bit careful that you didn’t fly into a 460 squadron Lancaster going in the opposite direction. But what I didn’t like about it I hung my cap, fortunately it wasn’t the round cap just the four and a half cap on the hook in the hall like I, in the, in the ante room like I did in my own squadron and I found someone had stolen it immediately. I wasn’t there that long. I just had lunch there. Took about half an hour. I thought I was doing alright. I go back and no cap. Well, I didn’t need it to fly a Lancaster because I had a flying helmet which I still had that in the, in the Lancaster or something like that but anyway you had to have a flying helmet. I hadn’t lost that. Just the ‘fore and aft’ cap. So I reckon the Australian squadron of [inclined] to be full of ill-disciplined, bloody thieves in a large, large section of them and that was, that was my opinion of the RAF as against the Australians like comparing the Australians were like a bloody Boy Scout troops except not quite so honest as the Scouts would be. And I didn’t like them. My, my old friend Dave Browne was, he had a bit of bad luck. He was, he got to his twenty sixth operation. I think they’d just made him a flight lieutenant, second in command of his flight and he did a couple of operations the same night as I did. I bombed Frankfurt September the, September the 12th 1944 Frankfurt and Dave Browne got shot down on that same night so it wasn’t much good him being a flight lieutenant and second in charge of the flight. It didn’t do him any good. Frankfurt. We bombed from seventeen thousand eight hundred feet and one thing I noticed about Frankfurt as we flew over it in a, in a sort of south easterly direction and came around, swung around to the left and flew back past it and you could look down and see Frankfurt and it looked just like Melbourne at night with the streets were all lit up but it wasn’t lights it was the burning buildings on each side of, of the street. Frankfurt was on fire that night and I set fire to most of it. Or a lot of it. Anyway, we had a good one on that. Frankfurt. Yeah. You probably think it’s a bit rough to think of burning people alive but it didn’t worry us. I’d seen, I’d seen Coventry in England. I’d seen Brighton. I’d seen a street in London where I used to go past and walk down part of. It was there from the first time I got to England in 1943, about July ‘43 and I’d seen this little street. Very attractive houses still intact and one night around about this time I happened to be in London again and it was a complete shambles. The Germans had sent up a special, special group of planes, probably not very many and bombed the hell out of it or it could have been those flying bombs I don’t know. Probably more likely to be that. The buzz bombs. They would do that. They were quite erratic. You never knew where they were going to land. I was in London when the first ones came over on leave. I looked out of the window of the hotel I was on the third floor of. A private hotel. It was the top floor and I heard this bop bopbopbopbop sound going across the sky. Just sounded just like my old motorbike. My 350 Calthorpe. Same sound except that there was this light at the back of it. My Calthorpe never had a light at the back of it. Oh it had a little red light you could hardly see but never had a big white glow at the back of it and it certainly didn’t go as fast as the buzz bombs but I can remember the anti-aircraft guns in London were firing at the thing but they never hit it and I could see what was happening. I could hear shrapnel starting from the, the exploding bomb started to land on the roof. I was up on the top floor and I could hear the things clang clanging on the top of the roof. Steel pieces from the, from the shells that they were shooting up at the flying bomb and not getting anywhere near it. I got under the bed for a while but I thought, ‘What will I do?’ There was no air raid shelter there so I just stayed under the bed till things quietened down and stopped firing. You could hear the guns going off as well as the buzz bomb flying over London. Everything went quiet after a while and I heard where it landed. It landed somewhere near a railway station up in er it would have been north east London a bit. North east somewhere. I’ve used that station afterwards when on my trips. I went, I did about half a dozen trips to, back to Europe, after the war, after I was married, with my wife and we went all over England and Scotland and Germany too. France and Germany. I liked the Germans. We got on very well with them. My last trip to Germany was in 1993, 1993 I think it was. We went with a group from the RAF association over in, it was in South Yarrow then. Frank. A bloke called Frank someone or other was the leader and apart from a lot of trips around England which we did which was very nice that included a visit to the Victory ship down on the south coast somewhere. We cruised, we visited the battle areas in France and then when we got to Germany we got to, I think we flew to Berlin and they had a, a small bus waiting for us and with two German air force pilots as drivers. One’s the driver. One’s the, one’s the navigator. Very nice blokes and they drove us all over middle Germany and East Germany, Not the north and not the very south either but the middle Germany. Berlin and then over to the French border where the southwest part of Germany is and they took it in turns to drive and navigate and when we got back to Frankfurt where I had done so much damage they’ve got a new, big new wide boulevard through the centre of Frankfurt. I knew the name of it at one stage but I can’t remember it now but they can thank me for putting that there. I removed a lot of old scruffy houses from a great strip in the middle of Frankfurt and they’ve got a big boulevard like St Kilda Road runs through it. Well, I did that, half the work for them. But anyway these two German blokes we got on very well with them and they took us to a couple of their airfields on the east border of Germany which used to be East Germany. It had just been changed, just amalgamated with West Germany in about 1995 or something like that.
AP: Before that. 1990
AA: 1990 was it?
AP: ’89 or – [? Just.]
AA: Oh that’s right ‘93 when I was there and the remains of the war were still there the West German wall but we went to the West German border somewhere near a town called Cottbus I think and there was a, air force station. They gave us a very good reception. Nice light lunch and so on and showed us the latest airplanes they had and we climbed all over the latest fighter the Germans had. In fact, the leader, the leader of the expedition Frank Wilson, that’s his name, he was a Lancaster pilot, he managed to get inside in the cockpit and wriggle the controls of one of them which was in the, in the hangar we were standing in. Then they did a bit of a demonstration flight for us. Low flying and a few aerobatics and so on.
AP: Beautiful.
AA: That was good. Then after that they drove us, the two blokes in this small bus drove us to the river which is the border I think between France and Germany on the west somewhere near the Rhine yeah it’s on the Rhine town Wesel W E S E L Wesel and we were taken as guests, honoured guests to a annual meeting of the ex-fighter pilots association.
AP: Wow.
AA: And they were all, had all these long tables in this room there with these pots of beer and they were singing songs, you know, bouncing these songs around. Our leader, Frank, he had to make a speech. He got up on the, on the stage and spoke to them and I suppose about three quarters of them would understand. They speak a lot of English in Germany and they were bouncing their big pots on the, on the ground and I turned back to the bloke next to me, he was German but he spoke English, they made sure we had a English speaking people sprinkled amongst our travel lot so we could ask any questions. I said, ‘What are they singing now?’ You know they were stamping their feet and banging their pots on the table, wooden tables and they said, ‘Oh that’s, “We’re marching against England.” ’ That’s what he said [laughs] and I said, ‘Oh, that’s interesting.’ Yeah and oh I got that plaque there from him, yeah.
AP: Nice.
AA: I got, we got a couple of pictures from him I don’t think they’re here. No. Mind your feet. I’ll just get the plaque down show you we got from him. From the opposition. There you are. How’s your German? Any good?
AP: Fair, Fair [?] it’s like an association of um fighter flyers associations.
AA: That’s right. Fighter.
AP: Yeah.
AA: They’re called flyers.
AP: [? ]That’s fantastic. I might take a photo of that later.
AA: Yeah. Well that’s come out its plug.
AP: Yeah that’s alright. It’s coming through the internal microphone now.
AA: Oh.
AP: Yeah, I couldn’t make it work so.
AA: That’s one of my favourite aircraft.
AP: Ah that’s an Anson.
AA: I used to like, I could fly them at night. Anytime. They’re good. Avro Anson.
AP: Yeah. Fantastic.
AA: And that’s the uniform we used to wear. That round cap beret with a sort of a what we called a goon skins they were, sort of one piece overalls and they used to try and make us wear them at, in mid-summer, at that place in South Australia where it was a hundred and eight degrees three days running and it was so hot you couldn’t sit on the metal beds inside the huts because they send they heat out more than the hut itself but anyway we talked, talked the boss into letting us wear shorts and shirts after a while. So, we weren’t so bad. And what else? On my last operation was on Cologne. Ah yes I, when I finished my tour in, here you are on, as a middle multi engine and that’s -
AP: above average yeah I read that.
AA: Well I got that for the Airspeed Oxford too but that was for being a good pilot but I think if you got back from thirty two trips he reckoned you must be above the average so he always gave that to someone who finished a tour which I did. Not everyone finished the tour. Old Dave Browne didn’t.
AP: Many of them didn’t.
AA: When my last operation was October the 31st on Cologne. What did we carry there? One four thousand. One blockbuster four thousand pounder and the rest in high explosive bombs but a lot of the times we carried about fifteen thousand pounds of bombs. Here’s one. Oh that’s fourteen thousand feet. Here’s another one thirteen, thirteen thousand pound bombs plus four five hundred pounders. Well that’s fifteen thousand pounds altogether which is about six and three quarter tons isn’t it?
AP: [?] yeah
AA: Divided by 2240 you get about six tons, six and a quarter tonnes. That’s a lot of weight you’re carrying and then there’s the petrol as well as that. Course that’s, that’s fairly high loaded. That was in Calais. We took part really in the invasion of Germany, of Europe. A lot of our work was supporting the, the British army. When they came up against a rather sticky situation they’d call for help from the RAF and we’d do a daylight trip on them so we wouldn’t bomb them instead of the opposition that they were complaining about and you know you killed a lot of Germans that way without killing any British. We never killed any British. We knocked off a lot of Frogs working with the Germans. Mostly in a little town just on the invasion coast. Where was it? [shuffling papers]. I don’t know. Another interesting thing was I’d flown over about eight different countries in Europe in a Lancaster. Eight. Including Sweden and Switzerland and Norway and Denmark and of course France and Germany and England and Wales and Scotland. I’ve been around in that Lancaster and that was a beautiful thing to fly. It was like flying, driving a Mercedes Benz. Beautiful. And probably your motorbike. Get as much enjoyment out of it except that that’s got a smaller engine than I had in my 350. Oh, yes, here you are. Have a look at this. There’s my motorbike.
AP: Oh fantastic. When’s that?
AA: Er that was -
AP: July 1938.
AA: ’38. I got that bike in ‘36. 1936. I wish I still had the damned thing. I shouldn’t have sold these things but I wanted to buy a car so I got a few shekels for that when I sold it, not very many and then bought a Singer Le Mans. A 1938 Singer.
AP: Fantastic.
AA: I haven’t got a picture of that but up there see those two top pictures.
AP: Yep.
AA: They’re of a car I had in England. That’s a Singer Le Mans. A nineteen, they’re both pictures of a restored, one’s been restored perfectly and the other is a lash up job um restored 1934 model Singer. Singer Le Mans because they did a lot of racing of Singer Le Mans and had a lot of victories and beat the MGs but then the next year in 1935 and, or ‘36 or something they had a lot of trouble with their brakes and they didn’t do any good at all but that, see that little black one.
AP: Yeah.
AA: In the corner? That’s the real one. That’s the one I had.
AP: That’s the one.
AA: In England.
AP: Was? As in this is when you were serving in England?
AA: Oh yeah. Yeah.
AP: Yeah. So, how did you get that car and what happened to it?
AA: Well it cost me sixty pounds. It was in the, just advertised in the local paper in Louth which is the local town for Kelstern and I just went along and bought it for sixty pounds. I had sixty pounds. We were fairly well paid and I didn’t gamble like, like most of my crew. They seemed to lose all their money but I never lent them anything. No. I was thinking if they’re going to lose their bloody money it’s their own fault. One of the blokes in the crew wanted to get married and he sent me a telegram. Unfortunately he wanted to borrow twenty pounds off me but fortunately I was on leave at the time so I never got that telegram until I got back from leave after his marriage day so that got me out of that. But that had two exhaust pipes like, like your bike out there but they just came out of one cylinder, one 350cc cylinder. Now, that was a beauty. One of the most thrilling experiences in my whole life and that includes Lancasters and anything, any other bloody thing was when I got that bloody bike.
AP: That motorbike. Fantastic.
AA: Yeah.
AP: Carrying on for a moment with the car. How did you fuel it?
AA: Oh we got an issue of four gallons a month if you were operational air crew. Well, I was an operational aircrew for six months because I was still on the squadron and I did four months actual, four months actual flying in Lancasters but then the CO decided to keep me on the squadron because I had an above-average rating for flying Airspeed Oxfords. Well, he had an Airspeed Oxford at his disposal and he used to like to go to visit other squadrons and perhaps his girlfriend’s town, I don’t know, and he like me to come along the next day, with a navigator of course, and bring him and bring him his aeroplane back and he’d fly it back. So he’d fly it to from Kelstern to Westcott or somewhere like that get out there at that airfield and I’d fly it back until I heard from him.
AP: That’s not a bad job is it?
AA: Well, he, he kept me on the station from the end of October, November, December till about half way through January doing that and he gave me a DFC for it. For being a good boy. Actually, most skippers of Lancasters if they completed a tour successfully got a DFC but he made sure I got one and I used to fly him everywhere. I even did a couple of trips to London with him I think. Or at least one anyway. And most of that would be around Lincolnshire somewhere and oh yes I had to investigate a crash on one occasion and I was, this was the first time I’d flown his Lanc, his Airspeed Oxford. We had to go to a station on the, on the south east coast, the south east coast of England, you know, and one of our Lancasters, it was a very bad night. Where were we bombing that night? I don’t know. Anyway, we were coming back from the middle of Germany somewhere and we were all told to fly over, over the top of a cold front that was approaching to get home again. As they said, ‘You’re going out you don’t have to worry about the trip to’ wherever you’re going ‘but when you’re coming back fly at twenty three thousand feet to get over the top of this electrical storm which you’ll run into.’
AP: Higher than that
AA: Well I was flying at twenty four thousand feet and it was very comfortable. We had a very nice bombing trip, killed a lot of nice Germans and we were flying back and there was no chance of the Luftwaffe chasing us at that stage because the weather down below looked pretty crook at times. It was nice and clear upside where we were until the rear gunner called out, ‘Hey skipper, my oxygen has gone out. I can’t get any oxygen.’ Well, he wanted me to say, ‘Well, oh well leave your turret and come inside,’ and I didn’t want to do that. I wanted the protection from him at the back as the most vulnerable side for us. The rear. The Germans liked to follow us up from the back. If possible shoot the rear gunner and shoot the rest of us and I said, ‘Look Ron.’ Ron smith his name was. ‘Look, I’ll take you down five thousand feet and that’ll get us down to eighteen, seventeen or eighteen thousand feet. You’ll be alright there.’ And he lived. I took it down to eighteen, seventeen thousand feet and we went through the top of this electrical storm. It worried me a little bit because it was pretty rough you know. The old Lanc was bouncing around a lot and fortunately we didn’t have any load on at this stage. We were empty. Just the petrol to get home and the four propellers each had a blue ring around the tip. You could see the big round blue circle around the tip and on the windscreen this little zigzag all over the windscreen. Sparks coming down the windscreen from the lightning. We were loaded. Loaded with lightning. However, we got past there. We got through it. It was a bit rough, you know. It was a bit bouncy but that didn’t worry me much. I was, I was more concerned about what the lightning was going to do. Whether it was going to get any worse than it was but we got back and he didn’t say much when we got back. I think he was reasonably grateful but at least he could breathe on the way home. He got out of there and plugged himself in to, no, he didn’t, he stopped in the turret. That’s right. I think what he wanted me to tell him to get out and plug himself in to one of the other outlets inside not in his, he was right in the back stuck in the glass with a big opening on the back so he could see clearly and er but he stopped there and he didn’t have to warn us that there was anyone else coming up behind us. I didn’t think there would be. Not through that storm. They would have, they would have corkscrewed into the ground I reckon if a fighter had tried to fly through there. It was bad enough in a Lancaster but that day, why I’m telling you that story, we lost a couple of Lancasters and one of them that didn’t come back they found it had dived into the sand, and into the sandy soil off the beach on the, in Norfolk somewhere and I was detailed by the CO with the knowledge that I hadn’t started flying him around to his girlfriend’s houses or anything at this stage but he’d seen the logbook. He used to read through everyone’s logbook. We had to put this in every month you see and he used to read everything in it. Better than reading the “Sporting Globe” I suppose but anyway he read that something like the same thing, you know, the competition the Germans and the British but we got, we got I was just detailed to fly this Oxford which I hadn’t forgotten how to fly to this American airfield on the, on the east, southeast coast there somewhere in Norfolk or Suffolk or, no, I think it would be Norfolk really but anyway we found the spot where the Lancaster had crashed and it had dived straight down apparently and the engines were twelve feet under the ground we estimated. Just an estimate by what was left of the Lancaster sticking up out of the back of it and as we were looking at er, looking at it a farmer wandered up and said to us, ‘Good day.’ He said, ‘There’s more remains over in the trees there.’ and I said, ‘Well, look we’re just inspecting the wreckage of the Lancaster. Someone else will be coming for the remains.’ So, I didn’t want to get stirred up with the remains of the, of the crew but that was his greeting to us, ‘there’s remains over in the trees there.’ So in, at the hit, Lancaster bits and pieces including the tree must have flown in every direction to have hit and got the engines that far underground. Must have been a bad one. It must have dived down from about ten thousand feet or something. Fifteen thousand. I don’t know. Twenty thousand. I don’t know but I was very glad we missed that thing ourselves but that was the closest thing I think we had to get into trouble. But no I’ve been to Poland twice. We went across the North Sea as usual. Across Norway. Now, this trip took about nine hours. Crossed in to Sweden which was neutral. As we got to the central of the Swedish, you know, it’s a long thing, goes up and down and I think the best parts are down low somewhere on the Baltic. Turned right there and headed south and on the way down the Swedes sent up a whole lot of Bofors shells but they only go to sixteen thousand feet. We were at about eighteen or nineteen thousand and it was a very pretty show actually. They come up in their bright colours reds and greens sometimes. Mostly reds. They used come up and you could see them coming up and bending gracefully over, starting to fall and blow up there. Bofors, 40mm but every now and again some keen type of Swede or someone who didn’t like the British, in the Swedish army, would send up a shot from a German 88mm high explosive shell but fortunately they were about four hundred yards on my left as I was flying south to Stettin in er in what is now Poland and I don’t think they hit anyone on that night but certainly I never saw them hit anyone there with their shells. I think they might have been trying though. As I say there was a keen type on the end of a German 88mm gun or a Swedish 88mm gun but that’s just the same sort of explosion as the Germans had at about, you know, we were at about eighteen thousand feet. And Bofors were 40mm guns which most of the Swedes were just sending up to let the British know that they weren’t allowed to fly over Sweden on the, in the rules, I don’t know what rules ruled most in those days but they let us know that we weren’t particularly welcome unless we had plenty of money to spend sort of thing. The Swedes used to sell steel to both the Germans and the British.
AP: But they were neutral.
AA: Well so did I. So were the Switzerland Swiss but we went over a corner of Switzerland at one stage. Where else did we go? I think they were the only neutral, neutral countries we flew over. I went to Stettin. That’s in Poland now. Used to be spelled S T E T T I N when the Germans had it. Now it’s spelt S C H E and something else, you know, Polish.
AP: A Polish name.
AA: Yeah.
AP: Makes sense.
AA: That’s about it.
AP: Were there any, I’ve got a couple, a couple more specific questions that I’d like to ask if -
AA: Yeah.
AP: If you don’t mind. Were there any hoodoos or superstitions with your squadron?
AA: No. There was no superstition. Just hope. Just hope that it doesn’t happen to you.
AP: Fair enough.
AA: Yeah. Oh no. We didn’t actually think about that much because we, when I look back I think we didn’t worry. We were used to going to town. Drink all the beer in Louth which was the local pub. I had a nice girlfriend, a WAAF, I used to go around with all the time. We used to go down to Binbrook in that black Singer. The black, the little black one in the corner there. It was the Plough Inn in Binbrook. We used to go down there and drink bottled beer. She liked bottled beer. I remember we went to, there was a dance in the sergeants’ mess. I wasn’t allowed to go. Officers weren’t allowed to go to that and I knew she was going to be there so I said, ‘Oh I think I’ll see you there.’ So, I borrowed the rear gunners, well he owed it to me for saving his life. I borrowed his, one of his spare tunics. He was a sergeant and I went along to the sergeants’ mess in it, just wearing the same blue pants that I normally had on and with his jacket on with the one wing and I’m dancing around with my girlfriend and the flight lieutenant um he was the orderly officer or something. He was, no, the squadron, the squadron something. He had some official position anyway. His job was to sort of get around and make sure everything was going all right and also collect the belongings of the people who got shot down, which happened from time to time. They used to come in at about 3am in the morning and wake me up while I was asleep and collecting all someone’s belongings. Which was, I didn’t like my sleep being disturbed like that. But what was he? Anyway, I got the job as assistant to him so that I could stay in the assistant, not orderly officer, some other name they used to use for this particular job and he used to, his main office was in the same little building as the CO’s office. And anyway, he said to me, he was allowed to be there because he’s the orderly bloke or the, what did they call him? I was, they actually made me the assistant something or other. I might think about it later. Anyway, I was being groomed to be in his, in his place when he went on leave in about three weeks’ time and we got on very well together and he looked across to me and said, ‘Ah,’ wearing my gunners uniform, ‘Ah Flying Officer Atkins,’ he says, ‘Are you enjoying the dance?’ I said, ‘Yes thanks, sir.’ ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Oh well that’s good. I’ll see you in the morning.’ Well of course he didn’t give a damn anyway. If no one else complained he wasn’t going to complain. Fortunately, the boss, Cocky, the wing commander, wasn’t attending the dance. He was probably attending his girlfriends, girlfriend in the local pub. He used to have her stashed up in the pub at times because I, I was very friendly with one of the telephone operators and she used to tell me who he used to ring up. She just, oh that was the life. That was the one I used to take down to the Plough Inn at Binbrook and drink bottled beer with and of course it was mid-winter when I was visiting Binbrook. Very icy roads and where it went down in to a bit of a dip it was icier than ever. I remember we drifted down in to this dip, this girl and I, and only a two seater of course. There, you can see that. There’s only room for two people in those, those cars and anyway it did a complete, it slipped around did a complete circuit around this -
AP: Just like a -
AA: Black ice.
AP: Just like a Halifax.
AA: Oh yeah. Yeah but when it went right around with a Halifax I had to drive it around. This one spun around like bloody top on the ice. I must have pressed the wrong buttons or something. Anyway, we, we just drove out of it, drove out very carefully, very slowly. Drove out and parked in its usual spot outside the side of the Plough Inn in Binbrook village.
AP: Nothing happened to you.
AA: Good.
AP: You said the circuits with Binbrook and Kelstern interlinked.
AA: They crossed.
AP: Yeah.
AA: Interlinked.
AP: Were they separated in some way like levels or something like that? Or was it just a case of -
AA: No. We always used to do the circuit at a thousand feet and as far as I know no one’s ever said to me, ‘Binbrook’s going to be doing it at the same time.’
AP: Sounds a bit terrifying. I should, I should declare an interest here. I’m an air traffic controller so that sounds terrifying to me.
AA: Oh, well, if you saw a Lancaster operation that would be terrifying just to look at.
AP: I think you’re probably right. I think you’re probably right. What five miles?
AA: Talk about fireworks. My first navigator, I had him until about the middle of the tour until his nerve gave out. After he, after I, after the war I met the, my wireless operator a few times. A fellow named Trevor something. Trevor Jones. A very nice bloke and an excellent wireless operator. Never missed a beat. He got all the messages out and all, sent them all back as they should have and that had a lot to do with surviving. If there was a shift in the wind he’d know that. And this navigator was very accurate. We used to, I used to time it in minutes the time arriving at the target. I used to think back, ‘Now will these bastards be asleep or will they be open or will they be up having their breakfast or what will they be doing?’ And that would depend on whether I was there three minutes before the bombing started or about two minutes after it. After they’d, after they’d dropped their first few shots off and were loading their guns again. And he told me that when we were, every target we were over instead of, he used to say, ‘Tom,’ Tom was the navigator, ‘Tom, have a look out. It’s beautiful,’ you know. ‘There’s fireworks everywhere,’ he used to say. Well there were too. You’d see them going off. Red, green, blue, black everything. Mostly, mostly red and green. And the man in charge of the operation would be circling this town. Say it’s Stuttgart or something, circling around saying, ‘Bomb the greens, bomb the greens. The reds are too far south,’ or something like that and giving us instructions. Then, ‘Go home now,’ or something or, ‘Wait,’ wait till we get to bomb the markers in or something. That didn’t, fortunately, the waiting thing didn’t happen but I used to hear him say, and sometimes he’d just tell us to take our bombs home. He said, ‘I can’t see the target. There’s too much dust and smoke. Take your bombs home and return to base.’ That was very annoying because I liked to drop the bombs. I didn’t like to land with a load of bombs on but sometimes we had to land with six and a half tonnes underneath you.
AP: Of high explosive. Thanks.
AA: Well -
AP: Question I like asking pilots. Your first solo. What happened?
AA: What the, the first solo in what?
AP: Your first ever solo. So the Tiger Moth.
AA: Oh the Tiger Moth. I did a very good landing. That’s all I can say about it. It was nice. I was, I knew a lot about aeroplanes because I used to fly, you know, model aeroplanes. Light aeroplanes. You could, you would wind the thing up, run along the concrete path and rise up in the air. Little ones. I did that for five or six years when I was a kid. I was very interested in them so I knew what they did. I knew how you bent the wings and how you bent the tail plane to make them level and that helped me a lot. A lot of these blokes had never been in an aeroplane or never seen a toy aeroplane even and had certainly never driven a car half the time. This bloke Dave Browne who was a friend of mine I was going to go and visit him and show him my, my new car, new car [laughs] a 1934 model at, at that place near Lincoln. I don’t think he had a driver’s licence. He’d never had one. He was eighteen. Just eighteen when he, he would have been when he left school. He left school and joined the air force. Got on the reserve. Nice bloke. What question did you ask me then?
AP: First solo.
AA: Oh first solo. Yeah. Well there wasn’t anything special. I liked flying. I liked, I liked flying the Tiger Moth. I knew I could fly it alright. I knew just how to fly it. So when my first solo came up he said, ‘Ok off you go.’ I just flew it up and around exactly the same as I did when I was with him. Did just the one circuit and landed it without bouncing it unduly. Some people bounced those Tigers fifteen feet into the air.
AP: I’ve done it myself.
AA: Oh have you?
AP: I have.
AA: Oh God. Well I never did. I never bounced it more than a foot or two feet at the most I don’t think.
AP: I’ve had shockers.
AA: But er I, I have flown them since the war.
AP: Yes [that was my next question]
AA: But only with an instructor. In the, in the back seat I think the instructor was. The funny thing when we were under instruction on Tigers during the war I was in the back seat and the instructor was in the front.
AP: Yeah.
AA: Well, when I flew them for a fifty dollar flight or something I was in the front seat and it was a bit unusual and the instructor was in the back. I remember on one occasion I went up in a flight in a Tiger and I was talking to the pilot and the instructor first before we went in and said, ‘I hope you’ll let me have a go at flying this thing.’ and he said, ‘Oh, yeah. Well, have you flown them before?’ I said, ‘Oh yes. Yes, I’ve flown them plenty of times.’ He said ‘Oh? Where were you flying them?’ I said, ‘Oh at Benalla.’ ‘Oh Benalla,’ he said ,’Oh.’ He didn’t seem to know what the, Benalla was the, the head office for Tiger flying in the RAF, RAAF I mean, in nineteen, what would it have been? 1942, yeah when I was flying them in Benalla.
AP: Have you flown them much?
AA: ’42 ‘43 ‘42 ‘41
AP: Have you flown much since the war?
AA: Only in passenger planes.
AP: Yeah. [?]
AA: No. I’ve never flown anything except a Tiger Moth since the war but I have flown in the Concorde from -
AP: Oh lovely.
AA: From London to, my wife too with me, Heathrow to that big airfield near New York. What is it?
AP: JFK.
AA: Hmmn?
AP: JFK.
AA: Yeah, that’s it. Yeah and we were booked to fly in a helicopter from JFK to somewhere near the centre of New York and that was because we were doing a first class trip all around the world. I didn’t intend to do it actually do it first class but the way it happened I said, ‘Oh well first class will do,’ because they said it’ll only be about, what you’ve got to pay it will only be about five hundred dollars difference from flying first class all the way from Australia to around the world. So we went first class. I think the next time I we went first class too it wasn’t that bad it wasn’t that much difference to business class really. We used to fly business class mostly. I think we did six, six trips to England. First of all cattle class and then business class and then first class but Quantas’ first class was, it was the pits.
AP: Still, still more comfortable I imagine than a Lancaster.
AA: No. The Lancaster was very comfortable. I felt more comfortable in a Lancaster than I ever felt in a Quantas first class. Do you know where they put us? As close to the toilet door as that. The two of us. Right, right opposite the toilets. The blokes used to come in and out of the toilet doing their flies up and we were sitting, sitting there. Well that was the finish. I’ve never flown in Quantas since.
AP: Oh really?
AA: That’s right.
AP: There you go.
AA: You can tell them that. You can tell them as much as you like.
AP: I have one more question for you. It’s probably the most important one.
AA: Yeah.
AP: How, what do you think Bomber Command’s legacy is and how do you want to see it remembered.
AA: I think it will all be remembered by the people who were in it alright but well I think they’ve got this new place in the Green Park. That, that does a lot for them but I can understand why the people in, up the north decided to have a memorial. They’ve probably got relatives or sons or something or fathers or grandfathers who’ve been in it and they want to make a point of it. That they get remembered for what they did and you know the fifty thousand I think RAF types who got killed in Bomber Command. I think it was a figure something like that. I think it was about three thousand Australians in Bomber Command that were killed and I’m doing something to remember them in Melbourne. I’ve organised a new boat to be built by the rowing club in the city that I’m interested in and I’m putting David Browne’s name on it.
AP: [Beautiful].
AA: Instead of mine. They usually, if someone gives them a boat, they usually put their name on it. I had, I’ve given them a boat about twenty years ago, thirty years ago with my hard earned cash and I had my name on it. Arthur Atkins, on both sides of the point. Well they’re going to put David Browne’s name on it because he was a nice bloke. Well, that’s why I think the people in Lincolnshire are doing a good thing. North Lincolnshire? Where is it again? Where are they putting this memorial? Do you know?
AP: It’s, it’s within sight of Lincoln Cathedral.
AA: Oh.
AP: It’s on a hill. I don’t know the direction. I haven’t been there myself yet unfortunately.
AA: Ah yeah.
AP: But it’s on a hill within sight of the cathedral.
AA: That’s, that’s not in the freezing north of Lincolnshire.
AP: No. I don’t think it is.
AA: No. Well that’s where I was. Lincolnshire. Well Yorkshire was worse, of course. I drove my car from, all over England. Only one thing wrong with it. Oh well no, wrong, the most, the most, the worst thing that was wrong with it was the fact that it never had a hand brake and of course on one occasion the hydraulic main operating thing busted it’s rubber washer so I had no brakes and the funniest thing was I was going along a street and you know I just used to rev the engine and drop it down a couple of cogs if I wanted to stop it. Coming around, I came down the street like I was driving the car down here with just, fairly gently and I wanted to turn right here and just as I got turning right, you know, at about ten miles an hour or something a bloke with about four, four greyhounds were walking down the street crossed right in front of me.
AP: No brakes.
AA: No brakes at all and I wasn’t in a low enough gear to make any difference and I wouldn’t have time. So do you know what I did? I put my foot out like that and dragged it along ground and that stopped it. The foot stopped it.
AP: Like a motorbike.
AA: Eh?
AP: Like a motorbike.
AA: Well I had a motorbike once. I knew how to stop that. I knew what to do with that.
AP: Very good. Well I think that’s, you’ve been talking pretty well nonstop for two and a quarter hours now.
AA: Have I?
AP: That’s a pretty good effort.
AA: I’m sorry.
AP: No. That’s excellent. There’s some really good stuff in there. This, this is one of the easiest interviews I’ve said, I’ve done because I asked you one question at the start.
AA: Yeah.
AP: And then I sat back and just listened.
AA: Yeah.
AP: And it went. I timed it. It went for an hour and fifty before you took a break.
AA: Goodness
AP: So, thank you very much.
AA: No. I’m very, very interested
AP: Very, very much.
AA: In the air force and Bomber Command. I had a, it was the best job I ever had in my life was the air force. Especially the part when I was working for the RAF.
AP: Good.
AA: They were the real air force as they said. Not the Boy Scout air force like the RAAF.
AP: Fantastic.
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Title
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Interview with Arthur Atkins
Description
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Arthur Atkins grew up in Melbourne, Australia. As a Boy Scout, he experienced a flight in an aircraft and knew he wanted to be a pilot. He transferred from the army to the Royal Australian Air Force and started pilot training in Australia. He travelled to Britain in 1943, via New Zealand and the United States of America. After further training at various stations, he was posted to 625 Squadron at RAF Kelstern. Among the operations he describes are leaflet drops over Chartres, the bombing of the Opel factory at Rüsselsheim, the Gironde Estuary, Le Havre, Frankfurt, Cologne and Stettin. He completed 32 operations. While stationed at RAF Kelstern he often visited the Plough Inn at Binbrook.
Creator
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Adam Purcell
Date
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2015-11-21
Contributor
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Julie Williams
Mal Prissick
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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02:13:42 audio recording
Language
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eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
AAtkinsA151121
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Australia
Atlantic Ocean--Bay of Biscay
Atlantic Ocean--English Channel
England--Lincolnshire
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Frankfurt am Main
Germany--Rüsselsheim
Poland--Szczecin
France--Chartres
France--Gironde Estuary
France--Le Havre
United States
Germany
France
Poland
California--San Francisco
California
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
1944
1945
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
27 OTU
625 Squadron
aircrew
bombing
control tower
entertainment
Halifax
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Operational Training Unit
Oxford
pilot
promotion
propaganda
RAF Church Broughton
RAF Hemswell
RAF Kelstern
RAF Lichfield
searchlight
training
Wellington
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1292/17623/PPearceAT16030024.1.jpg
36a28c7e5c9693a8c897fc8e2bc915de
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Lowry Field on July 25. Plans are underway to fete the British flyers and make their visit to Lowry as pleasant as possible. This is one of the many points which the RAF Squadron will visit on a five-week goodwill tour of the United States. Open house at Lowry Field is planned for the 27th of July. At this time the public will be given a chance to inspect this sample of the might of the British Air Arm.
Flying the famed Lancaster bombers that helped smash Germany’s industrial war plants in night raids at the height of the Allied air offensive, R.A.F. fliers will land at Lowry Field to begin their three-day visit to the Denver area. Invited to the United States by the Army Air Forces, Squadron 35 (Pathfinder), Royal Air Force Bomber Command is touring the country, taking part in several events along the way. Arriving at Mitchell Field, New York, on July 17, the group of sixteen Lancasters and two Yorks, commanded by Wing Commander A.F.L. Craig assembled before beginning its “Good Will” tour.
Upon their arrival in New York last Wednesday, members of the group were extended a warm welcome. Among the activities held in their honor [sic] were a baseball game, dinner, dance, and open house entertainment. Similar programs are being planned for their visits to Scott Field and other AAF installations in this country.
The squadron will stop at Scott Field, near Bellevue, Illinois on July 21. After leaving Lowry Field, the group will take off for a scheduled arrival at Long Beach, California on the 28th. on August 1, the unit will take part in the program for the Army Air Forces Day at Los Angeles. Next scheduled stop on the itinerary will be Kelly Field, San Antonio, Texas, when the group leaves Long Beach, on August 3. From Kelly the R.A.F. fliers will take off for Morrison Field, near West Palm Beach, Florida, arriving there on August 7. Next will be Andrews Field, Maryland, near Washington, D.C. On August 18 a return
[photograph]
[photograph]
The mass formation will be manned by 110 enlisted men, 30 warrant officers, 61 company grade officers, and eight field grade officers. Total strength will be 209, including two British newspapermen.
Veteran of some of the toughest air combat in the European theatre, the 35th Squadron will complete project “Good Will” under the direction of Group Captain R.C.M. Collard, Station Commander at Gravelly, Huntington, England. Wing Commander Craig of Gravelly, a 23-year-old flier with a brilliant war record will conduct the group on its five-week tour. Craig holds the Distinguished Service Order and the Distinguished Flying Cross.
Britain’s largest bombers, the four-engine Lancasters of Squadron 35 which carried the war to Germany completed every mission but one. Chosen to form part of the R.A.R.’s “Tiger Force,” No. 35 was making preparations to join American B-29’s on Okinawa for the massed air offensive against Japan when surrender came, cancelling the project. Still clad in their “tropical Dress,” the R.A.F. Lancasters are white on top and black underneath.
Much of the fame which was attained by the 35th Squadron came from their successes as one of the four squadrons which went to make up the nucleus of the “Pathfinder Force.” This was the RAF’s solution to the difficulties encountered in maintaining accuracy in bombing on night missions over Europe. Early in the war it became apparent that night bombing would be much more effective if an unmistakable beacon were created near the target by fire-raising parties. Hence the “Pathfinder Force” was established. The four squadrons chosen were selected because of special skills in navigation and the use of special equipment. Their mission was to locate targets in the dark and provide the guiding beacon by setting them afire with incendiary bombs and by dropping flares.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Goodwill visit to United States
Description
An account of the resource
Newspaper cutting with three air-to-air view photographs of Lancasters.
Article states that 16 Lancasters of 35 Pathfinder Squadron will arrive 27 July 1946 on three day visit to Denver area. They arrived in the United States at Mitchel Field New York on 17 July 1946. Mentions they will visit Scott Field Bellevue. Long Beach California, San Antonio, Morrison Field West Palm Beach and Andrews Field Washington DC. Mentions party consists of 110 enlisted men m 20 warrant officers and 61 officers. Mentions would have been part of Tiger Force.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-07
1946-08
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One newspaper cutting mounted on an album page
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16030024
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
Colorado--Denver
California--Long Beach
Texas--San Antonio
New York (State)--New York
Illinois--Belleville
Florida--West Palm Beach
Maryland
Washington (D.C.)
Florida
California
Colorado
Illinois
New York (State)
Texas
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07
1946-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
35 Squadron
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
Pathfinders
Tiger force
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1292/17589/PPearceAT16030003.2.jpg
8f0fcbea0ef6f09500eccd686765e4fd
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
16 RAF Bombers Here In Mass Ocean Flight
By JOHN HUGHES
In what the Army calls the first mass military flight across the Atlantic, 16 four-engined Lancaster bombers landed at Mitchel Field at 4 P.M. yesterday on the first leg of a good will tour of the United States.
The planes, which comprised Squadron 35 of the RAF, will fly over New York City today at 1:20 P.M.
The Squadron carried its own ground crews, bringing in all 207 officers and men in the 16 bombers.
All Bomb-Run Veterans.
The fliers, all veterans of the great bombing attacks on Germany, were greeted at Mitchel Field by Lieut. Gen. George E. Stratemeyer.
Stratemeyer said he was happy to greet the men who had worked together around the clock with our air forces in crushing Nazism.
Today the planes will fly out over the Atlantic a short way, then head inland over Staten Island and Manhattan, passing over the Empire State Building at 2,500 feet in the early afternoon.
They will proceed to the Bronx, then circle back over Queens and Brooklyn before returning to Mitchel Field.
Head West Sunday.
Wing Comdr. Allan John Craig, 23, who participated in 66 wartime operations, led the group in yesterday. The planes took off from Graveley, Hereford, England, last week, and have been at Gander Bay, Newfoundland, for servicing the last few days.
Leaving here Sunday, they will [advert] fly in short stages across the country to the Long Beach Army Air Base, in California, where they will have the honor [sic] position in the Army Air Forces revue over Los Angeles in celebration of Air Forces Day on Aug. 1.
(Picture in center [sic] fold)
[photograph]
[photograph]
[photograph]
[photograph]
[photograph]
[photograph]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Goodwill tour of United States
Description
An account of the resource
Top left - newspaper article 'RAF Bombers on mass ocean flight'. States that 16 Lancasters landed at Mitchel Field on first leg of goodwill tour of United States. The 35 Squadron planes carried their own ground crew and all flyers were veterans of attacks on Germany. Met by General George Stratemeyer. Mentions led by Wing Commander John Craig who participated in 66 wartime operations. Flew from Graveley to Gander and will go in stages to Long Beach California. Top right - photograph of air and ground crew standing in line by Lancaster TW872. Below right - Lancaster over airfield with runway going bottom right middle right. Middle left - three men in swimming trunks eating fruit. In the background another man and two storey building. Middle right - air-to-ground view of airfield with runways. Machine gun muzzle visible on left. Bottom left - Arthur Pearce in front of wooden house. Bottom right - air-to-air view of Lancaster.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-07
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One newspaper cutting and six b/w photographs mounted on an album page
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16030003
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
New York (State)--New York
Newfoundland and Labrador
Newfoundland and Labrador--Gander
California--Long Beach
Great Britain
England--Cambridgeshire
California
New York (State)
Canada
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Steve Baldwin
35 Squadron
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
RAF Graveley
runway
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1292/17590/PPearceAT16030004.2.jpg
34f639d7549d71ffb379683e2117c776
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Goodwill tour of United States
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-07
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One newspaper cutting and six b/w photographs
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16030004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
New York (State)--New York
New York (State)
California
California--Los Angeles
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07
Description
An account of the resource
Top- newspaper cutting and photograph. Shows two Royal Air Force officers and two United States army air force officers in line under a sign that says 'Welcome R.A.F.' Captioned 'Greetings. Group Captain R.C.M. Collard. officer in charge of RAF tour, stands by (left) Wing Commander A.J.L. Craig is welcomed to Mitchel Field by Lt Gen George E. Stratemeyer. At the right is Col L.R. Parker, see below'.
Middle left - photograph of B-17 facing left.
Middle right air-to-air view of four Lancasters in formation over a city.
Third row left - air-to-ground view of Los Angeles, the tall building is the LA City Hall.
Third row right - Lancaster in light paint scheme parked on ground at air show surrounded by spectators.
Bottom left - Avro York at airshow surrounded by spectators.
Bottom right - air-to-ground view of a city with square grid roads and tall buildings.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Stilgoe
35 Squadron
aircrew
B-17
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1292/17607/PPearceAT16030011.1.jpg
b028adcd74c460c16b31a748fe6421ea
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Goodwill tour of United States
Description
An account of the resource
Top - newspaper cutting with photograph of air-to-air view of formation of 12 Lancasters from 35 Squadron over New York. Caption states that photograph shows them over East River and that they will fly on to St Louis.
Middle right - photograph of C-47 on left facing, B-25 middle facing away and Lancaster on the right.
Bottom - newspaper cutting with photograph of seven Lancasters in light paint scheme parked on airfield at Long Beach California with crews standing in front. In front of them a welcoming party. Caption 'Smart Line -up. Due back any day now, the 16 Lancasters on No 35 Squadron are shown inspected at Long Beach California during the US Army Air Force Day celebrations'.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two newspaper cuttings and one b/w photograph mounted on an album page
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16030011
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
United States Army Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
California--Long Beach
New York (State)--New York
California
New York (State)
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-07
1946-08
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07
1946-08
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
35 Squadron
aerial photograph
B-25
C-47
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1823/32463/PKentKD17010004.1.jpg
5735d0a54c979f51508d12b8ffe61949
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1823/32463/PKentKD17010005.1.jpg
f6851be1ac6909e5e4d6e6ab02cc1626
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kent, Kenneth D
K D Kent
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Kent, KD
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Kenneth Kent (b. 1922, 572440, 55219 Royal Air Force) and contains a photograph album and documents. He joined the RAF as an Apprentice in 1936, starting his training at RAF Halton later going to RAF Cosford. He completed his training as an aircraft tradesman and was promoted to corporal. He volunteered for aircrew and went to the United States and Canada for flight training in July 1942. He was commissioned in July 1943 and was posted to 106 Squadron at RAF Metheringham. He was promoted to Squadron Leader in August 1945.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Nigel Kent and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Golden Gate Bridge 1942
Description
An account of the resource
Four photographs the first is of the bridge with hilly coast line captioned 'The bridge from Presidio. A clear span of 4200 ft, height of towers 740ft'.
Second captioned ' Ocean and mountain scenery from the bridge'.
Third is a full span of the bridge over the harbour entrance, coast line in the foreground captioned 'The Bridge from Lands End'.
Fourth is captioned 'Close up of tower'.
The second page has four photographs, the first two are of the full length of the bridge the first captioned 'The bridge from the Marine Countryside'.
The second captioned 'The Bridge and San Francisco from the Marine Countryside'. The third captioned as 'Sunset'.
The fourth captioned 'The Bridge and San Francisco at night.'
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Eight b/w photographs on two album pages
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PKentKD17010004, PKentKD17010005
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
California
California--San Francisco
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-11
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1279/17485/PPearceAT16010047.1.jpg
f89a9c4fbe2a28a1347666bdc9d8ee88
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pearce, Arthur
A T Pearce
Description
An account of the resource
140 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer Arthur Pearce (1874945 Royal Air Force) He served as an air gunner with 12, 170 and 156 (Pathfinder) Squadrons and completed a 44 operations. After the war, on 35 Squadron he took part in the June 1946 Victory flypast over London and a goodwill visit to the United States. It contains his diaries, memorabilia and photographs.
The collection also contains an album concerning his post war activity with the Goodwill tour of the United States.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Steve Allan and catalogued by Nigel Huckins
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Pearce, AT
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Four Lancasters over Los Angeles
Description
An account of the resource
Air-to-air view of four Lancasters in light paint scheme taken over Los Angeles, La Brea district.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16010047
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Geolocated
Pending review
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
California
California--Los Angeles
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
35 Squadron
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1769/31040/BCleggPVIsaacsonPv1.2.pdf
ba487b62028e63735e7613a38953c436
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Clegg, Peter Vernon. Isaacson, Peter - folder
Description
An account of the resource
Four items. Contains photographs, biography of Wing Commander Peter Isaacson AM, DFC, AFC, DFM RAAF and extracts from his log book covering a journey from England to Australia.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-02
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Clegg-PV
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Extract from Peter Isaacson's log book
Description
An account of the resource
Covers his flight from England west via the United States to Australia in 1943.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
12 b/w photocopied pages
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Log book and record book
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
BCleggPVIsaacsonPv10012
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Australian Air Force
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Canada
United States
Kiribati
Australia
England--Cheshire
England--Wiltshire
Scotland--Prestwick
Québec--Montréal
Ontario--Ottawa
Ontario--Toronto
California--San Francisco
Hawaii--Honolulu
Kiribati--Kanton
Queensland--Brisbane
New South Wales--Sydney
California
Hawaii
New South Wales
Queensland
Ontario
Québec
Kiribati
Korea (South)
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1943
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Great Britain. Royal Air Force
aircrew
Lancaster
pilot
RAF Lyneham
RAF Prestwick
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1401/27150/MMooreD1603117-160524-150001.1.jpg
234043a38ca0e46a7c1b188e57cab6e8
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1401/27150/MMooreD1603117-160524-150002.1.jpg
2e3334d14679344826ea720bb99b7de5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Moore, Dennis
D Moore
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-06
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Moore, D
Description
An account of the resource
37 items and two albums.
The collection concerns (1923 - 2010, 1603117, 153623 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, documents, photographs and two albums. He flew operations as a navigator with 218 and 15 Squadrons.
Album one contains photographs of his family and his training in Canada.
Album Two contains photographs of his service in the Far East.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Terrence D Moore and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Dennis MOORE
[heading] Dates – Events [/heading]
1941 – Home town WALLIINGTON [sic] Surrey. Volunteered for RAF Aircrew. Accepted for Deferred Service.
1942 – Joined R.A.F. as U/T Aircrew.
1942-1943 – ITW Newquay – Elected to train as Navigator. No. 1 CNS RIVERS Manitoba. Qualified as Nav 1/10/1943 (Ansons)
Jan-April 1944 – No. 1 (O) AFU WIGTON, Scotland. (Ansons)
May-July 1944 – No. 12 OTU CHIPPING WARDEN/EDGEHILL (Wellingtons)
August 1944 – No., 1658 Conversion Unit CHEDBURGH (Stirlings)
September 1944 – No. 3 LFS FELTWELL (Lancasters)
September 1944 – No. 218 (Goldcoast) Squadron METHWOLD (3 GROUP) 10 ‘Ops’ (6 Daylight Formation-4 Night-time)
28 November 1944 – Transferred to No. XV Squadron MILDENHALL with Skipper promoted to Squadron Commander.
14 April 1945 – Completed Operational tour of 33 Sorties (21 Day Formation – 12 Night-time) Master Bomber on Daylight to SCHWAMMENUAL DAM & Led Formation/Group/Squadron on most Daylight Formations.
July 1945 – No. 109 Transport OTU CROSBY-ON-EDEN (Dakotas).
October 1945 – No. 52 Squadron Transport Command (Dakotas) DUM-DUM Calcutta. All routes to Hong Kong via Rangoon, Bangkok and Saigon.
November 1946 – ‘Demob’ RAF. Join Silver City Airways (Lancastrian, VIP Dakota, Wayfarer etc.) Charter flying. Set new record (10/12/46)- of 4.55 hrs Heathrow to Malta!! First Class Civil Navigators Licence No. 2116
November 1948 – Joined Flota Aerea Mercante Argentina (subsequently Argentine Airways) (Yorks). Left January 1949 after Eva Peron decree limiting numbers of non-nationals in FAMA. Routes Buenos Aires to Madrid and London.
January 1949 – Joined Flight Refuelling on BERLIN AIRLIFT. Flying Petrol In Lancastrians. Completed 98 sorties.
[page break]
May 1951 – Rejoined RAF _ CNCS SHAWBURY (Wellington Mk XI)
October 1951 – No. 5 ANS LINDHOLME. Navigation Instructor (Valetta & Wellington X)
September 1952 – Headquarters Flying Training Command – Command Examination Unit. (Setting and marking all Final Navigation exams for Pilots & Navigators.)
April 1954 – Command Search & Rescue Officer HQ FTC. (Anson!, Balliol & Canberra B2)
January 1955 – Royal Radar Establishment – TFU Defford. Radar etc Development trials (Lincoln, Canberra, Devon, Ashton, Hastings, Dakota, Meteor, Vampire, Wayfarer, Marathon, Valetta, Varsity, Shackleton & Whirlwind.)
November 1957 – Unit renamed RRFU & moved to PERSHORE.
July 1959 – USA – Thor Missile systems training.
December 1959 – No. 82 Squadron SHEPHERDS GROVE (Thor missiles) Launch Control Officer. Returned to USA 1961 to fire missile returned to VANDENBERG AFB from 82 Squadron.
May 1962 – Appointed to FELTWELL Categorization Flight to carry out Launch Crew categorizations on all Squadrons of Feltwell complex.
April 1963 – Commanding Officer No. 721 Mobile Signals Unit METHWOLD. Unit moved to LINDHOLME late 1963. (Bombplot for ‘V’ Force)
November 1964 – Retired from RAF
1964-1984 – Various appointments as Training Officer. (all in Construction, Engineering and Printing Industries)
1984-TPD – Self-employed as Training & Computer Consultant.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Dennis Moore List of Experience
Description
An account of the resource
A list of postings completed by Dennis from 1941 to 1984.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Dennis Moore
Format
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Two printed sheets
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Identifier
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MMooreD1603117-160524-150001, MMooreD1603117-160524-150002
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Transport Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Wallington Garden
England--Newquay
Canada
Manitoba
China--Hong Kong
Burma--Rangoon
Thailand--Bangkok
Malta
England--Heathrow
Argentina--Buenos Aires
Spain--Madrid
England--London
Germany--Berlin
England--Crosby-on-Eden
India--Kolkata
Vietnam--Ho Chi Minh City
Spain
Germany
Burma
China
India
Thailand
Vietnam
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Cumberland
United States
California
California--Vandenberg Air Force Base
England--Middlesex
England--Northumberland
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Tricia Marshall
12 OTU
15 Squadron
1658 HCU
218 Squadron
3 Group
52 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
aircrew
Anson
C-47
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancastrian
Lincoln
Master Bomber
Meteor
navigator
Operational Training Unit
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Chipping Warden
RAF Feltwell
RAF Lindholme
RAF Methwold
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Pershore
RAF Shawbury
RAF Shepherds Grove
RAF Wigtown
Shackleton
Stirling
training
Wellington
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1401/27272/BMooreDMooreDv1.1.pdf
6f33157a0b1575c878747146f837b62b
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Moore, Dennis
D Moore
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-05-06
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Moore, D
Description
An account of the resource
37 items and two albums.
The collection concerns (1923 - 2010, 1603117, 153623 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, documents, photographs and two albums. He flew operations as a navigator with 218 and 15 Squadrons.
Album one contains photographs of his family and his training in Canada.
Album Two contains photographs of his service in the Far East.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Terrence D Moore and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
Dennis Moore
28.06.1923 – 30.10.2010
[photograph]
Autobiographical notes
DM Memoirs (Second Edition)
Compiled and edited by Terry D Moore
[censored lines]
1
[page break]
2
[page break]
Foreward
In late 1991, following the end of the Cold War and the cessation of hostilities in Iraq. the Government's "Options for Change" defence review led to the disbandment of several RAF squadrons, one of which was XV Squadron which had played a significant role in the first Gulf War. As a former member of this squadron, in which he flew as a Lancaster Navigator during the Second World War, my father was invited to attend the disbandment ceremony in Laarbruch, Germany, and I had the privilege of accompanying him as his guest.
Although he continued to serve in the RAF until 1964, Dad had never talked about his wartime experiences but, during the long car journey to and from Germany, all that changed – the memories flooded back as though it were yesterday. The stories became very familiar to me as they were regularly recounted at the many air-shows and Squadron Reunions we attended over almost two decades
Sadly, he did not live to celebrate his birthday on 28th June 2012, the day on which Queen Elizabeth II unveiled the long overdue Bomber Command Memorial in London's Green Park. However, my wife Penny and I proudly attended as his representatives
[photograph]
The ceremony, honouring the 55,730 airmen who lost their lives during the Second World War, was attended by more than 5,000 second world war veterans and it brought to mind the last words of the Antarctic explorer, Captain R.F. Scott: "had we survived I would have had a take to tell . . . . . . ." Well he did survive – a thirty-three sortie tour with Bomber Command, and his tales are told in the form of these "Autobiographical Notes" which he compiled following our trip to Germany in 1991.
I spent many hours editing his notes, which I illustrated with photographs from his albums and, thankfully, was able to get his seal of approval before he died. Since then I have added more photos and later material which I found in his papers. I am certain that he would have approved.
[photograph]
Terry Moore, July 2012
3
[page break]
[photograph]
"60 years on" – with PA474 at RAF Lossiemouth, May 2005
[photograph]
Pam and me at XV Squadron "90th Birthday" reunion, Lossiemouth
4
[page break]
Dennis Moore
AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL NOTES
1923 – 1939
I was born at 98 Camden Crescent, Chadwell Heath, Essex on 28th June 1923. The youngest child of Thomas and Mary Moore 1, brother to Thomas (Owen) 2 and sister Joyce 3.
About 1926/7 the family moved to 150 Croydon Road, Beddington, Surrey.
My education began at Bandon Hill School, Wallington.
At the age of 7 I fell ill with infantile paralysis (Polio). I was taken to St. Thomas's Hospital in London where I spent nearly 3 months. I was immobilised in a body splint but do not remember much about the treatment except having pins stuck in the soles of my feet periodically (mostly in middle of night!). Apparently I was very lucky to have been diagnosed so quickly and affected in whole body rather than in particular limbs. I only remember there being some form of epidemic in the ward and visitors were not allowed for three weeks or so. The doctor promised me 5 shillings (a lot of money for an eight year old in those days) if I could walk unaided from the end of my bed to the end of the bed opposite by the time my parents were allowed back in. He had to pay up! All together I was off school for nearly a year. I started back in a wheel chair but soon discarded it!
In 1934 I got a place at Wallington County School for Boys. I was not very good at school but just about managed to keep up, though mostly somewhere near the bottom of the form! I only once ever obtained good results in exams when I managed to come [italics] first [/italics] in a science exam, and that was only because, by chance, I had swotted up the night before on all the right things!
I joined the school Scouts (9th Wallington {County School} Troop) and did quite well. Our Scout Master, A. D. Prince, was the school science master. I became Patrol Leader of the 'Owls' and eventually obtained the King's Scout badge and the 'Bushman's Thong'. Nearly every holiday was spent camping or 'Trekking'. In 1937 I attended the Scout Jamboree at Zandfoort in Holland (pictures in green photo album). None of us liked the very militant contingent from Germany who threw their weight about at all the 'get-togethers'.
[photograph]
Joyce, Dad, Mum and me
I represented the Scouts at swimming and the school 2nd XV at Rugby. All my spare time was taken up with tennis at Beddington House Lawn Tennis Club, playing and helping to maintain the tennis courts.
My swimming ability arose from the Polio recovery therapy. Long daily sessions were spent in the hospital pool and then in the local swimming baths in Croydon.
Our house was quite close to Croydon Airport and two of my friends lived actually overlooking the airfield. We could recognise all of the airlines and aircraft that we saw landing and taking off each day. This aroused my life long interest in flying.
1 Thomas Henry Moore (1892-1967), Mary (née Tait) (1893-1984)
2 Thomas Owen (b. 3 October 1917, d. 2 November 2010)
3 Joyce (b. 11 July 1919, d. 16 May 2012)
5
[page break]
1939
Mid-June – our summer holiday at The Hartland Hotel, Hartland Point, Devon was delayed so that I could take the last exam of Matriculation (Economics) but I did so badly that we need not have wasted the extra day. I left school at the beginning of July, aged 16
War started on 3rd September and we listened to the radio broadcast by Neville Chamberlain, which was immediately followed by the Air Raid warning and all of us really though that we were about to be annihilated.
I started work at 'CUACO' (Commercial Union Assurance (Marine Department)) in Lime Street, London. Starting Pay was 21 shillings & sixpence (£1.12 1/2) per week and a railway season ticket cost 13 shillings (60p) per month. My boss was called Godin. I spent most of the time making onionskin copies of documents – before the days of photocopiers! The Underwriters were almost like gods and had to be treated as such. The firm had a lunch club in Ropemaker Street (near Moorgate Tube Station). It was a very old and decrepit building and we had one of the top floors, which could only be reached by very rickety stairs. It was well worth the 10-15 minute walk to get there, through the many alleyways and quick-cuts through other buildings, as the meal was free!!! Later, this building was destroyed by bombing and the Barbican now stands on the site.
I joined the AFS (Auxiliary Fire Service) as a Messenger.
1940
Joined the CUACO Tennis club. Played on the sports ground in the Sidcup area. In late summer I witnessed the bombings in the surrounding area.
The evacuation of Allied Forces from Dunkirk, following the German advance through Belgium, Holland and France, took place at the end of May and was completed around 3rd June. I had holiday from work a few days later and went on a cycle tour of Devon. I caught the train to Exeter, then cycled & stayed at YHA's from there. I passed many camps of army people who had just got back. They were not allowed to send mail without it being censored, so I acted as 'Mail Boy' for many of them who called me over from inside the fence. One of the hostels I stayed at was at Waters Meet (now a National Trust site) and the Warden and I were the only two people there. He took me into Lynton (or perhaps Lynmouth) and introduced me to real cider. It did not take much of this to wake up next morning with a very thick head! However, a long hike up the river soon altered that. At Salcombe, I managed to hire a motor boat (dinghy) and could not understand why the chap who hired it to me insisted that there was a full tank of petrol. I now imagine he must have thought that I was going into the Channel to pick up more 'Dunkirk Survivors' – I must have been very naive at the time!!
The 'Battle of Britain' started in earnest about 12th August. I had been playing tennis at Sidcup when the first bombing of airfields started. On the 15th (or possibly the 18th), I was in the garden at 150 Croydon Road Beddington when aircraft flew over with bombs dropping from them aimed towards Croydon aerodrome. The following day I was called to the Bourjois factory with the AFS to try and get underneath some girders to see if anyone was trapped. A few days later, Dad took us all to live with the Robsons in Charlton Cottage, Copperkins Lane, Amersham, which they rented for a short while. I joined the local Scout Troop (1st Chesham Bois) and met the King family. After short time, by general consent, I was made Troop Leader.
I travelled up to London daily by train with George King & his brother. On one occasion, after a very heavy night raid, it took two hours to walk from Paddington to Lime Street through the devastated city. I camped out at weekends at Chalfont Heights and Great Hampden.
The Blitz was at its height during this period and London and the surrounding area were seemingly bombed every night.
6
[page break]
1941
Early in year the folks moved back to Beddington but I stayed on and lived with one of the King family at 'Rose Cottage' in Chesham Bois. I visited Len Reynolds (see Gunboat 658) who worked for Sun Insurance and had been evacuated to Wrest Park, Silsoe, Beds. I cycled from Amersham via Luton and was chased by a dog for a long way up the A6. Recent visits to Wrest Park are somewhat nostalgic.
24th April 1941, on leaving Chesham Bois, I was presented with a Photo Album by George King and members of 1st Chesham Bois Scout Troop.
[photograph]
Len Reynolds and myself in uniform
Changed jobs soon after a devasting German bombing raid on London on 10th May and started with Gold Exploration & Finance Company of Australia, which had been evacuated to Sandroyd School, Oxshott. The first few days were spent in the old office in Basinghall Street helping to move files and papers from the partially bombed building. During the week I lived at Sandroyd (in a small house called Kittermasters) and cycled home to Beddington at weekends. By the end of the summer the Blitz had more or less finished but a German bomber (or parts of it!) crashed in the grounds of Sandroyd one evening while we were out drinking in a local pub!
Volunteered for RAF and attended the selection centre at Oxford University (not sure which college – visits in recent years in no way help me to recognise anything about it). Had a long session with medics to decide if my previous infantile paralysis (Polio) would allow me to be considered for Aircrew. After an interview with four Senior Officers, it was decided that I had passed 'A1' and was 'sworn-in' for deferred service. My actual service in the RAF counted from then. Mum was very upset when I informed her as she was convinced that I would be unfit for any service in the Forces due to my previous medical history and Dad was upset that I had volunteered for the [underlined] RAF [/underlined] because he had already booked me as a nautical apprentice with a post on the Prince Line vessel "Black Prince". I had actually done myself a great favour as the ship was sunk quite early on with the loss of all the crew!
Took part in amateur dramatics at Sandroyd together with others from English, Scottish & Australian Bank (ES&A). Performed in Xmas panto as a character in sketches of the Weston Brothers type. They were very popular Radio characters of the time.
7
[page break]
1942
Early spring, I was called up as U/T Aircrew and reported to Aircrew Receiving Centre (ACRC) at Lords cricket ground and billeted in "Viceroy Court" (one of numerous apartment blocks in Regents Park area). During the first week or so we were kitted out, received inoculations, vaccinations, took night vision tests and attended numerous lectures in various part of the cricket ground. Many of the staff were well known cricketers of the day. Spent about eight or nine weeks here with some odd short periods of leave (weekend passes) so I was able to get home quite easily.
[photograph]
At home in the garden 150 Croydon Rd, Beddington
Posted to RAF Bridgenorth & RAF Ludlow where I helped to build the camps. We lived in tents and were treated like 'dirt'. Most of the time was devoted to learning how to 'skive-off' each evening and get back into camp without being caught! Ludlow was famous for the large number of pubs and we took advantage of this to avoid being seen by the SPs (RAF Police). Fortunately, both postings were quite short lived.
Summer was spent at Initial Training Wing (ITW) Newquay. Billeted in the "Penolver Hotel" on the seafront. I seem to remember it being next door to the "Beresford" (pictures in album). Our Sergeant, called Sgt. Hannah, was very strict but fair and we got on well with him. In the photos I recall many of the faces but I cannot put names to any of them. A certain teaspoon, still in use, came from a little cafe where we had our brief coffee breaks! A glorious summer – spent much time on the beach and in the sea, as well as clay pigeon shooting on the cliffs.
Since I had elected not go to pilot basic training selection but [italics] to train as a navigator [/italics], I remained at Newquay with 2 others while the rest of the course did their 'Tiger Moth' time. We met up again at Heaton Park, Manchester after they had finished their pilot checkouts. Had a miserable time hanging about waiting for next posting. Billeted in a filthy boarding house with a scruffy landlady and every one of the NCOs seemed to make life difficult.
8
[page break]
1943
Early in the year I finally got a posting to Empire Air Training in Canada. We entrained to Greenock (Glasgow) and boarded the Troop ship [italics] Empress of Scotland [/italics].
[photograph]
RMS Empress of Scotland (formerly Empress of Japan)
Hundreds of us were bundled together in tiers of bunks in makeshift accommodation on the port side, fairly well forward on the boat deck. It was a blessing being able to get out into the open quickly as some of the others were down below, almost in the bilges. We spent hours queuing for food but it passed the time quickly. We sailed on our own and had numerous alerts but nothing was seen or heard. Eventually we docked in New York, although we all thought we were going to [underlined] [italics] Halifax! [/italics] [/underlined]
By train up to No. 31 Personnel Depot Moncton (New Brunswick), stopping for nearly a day in sidings in Portland (Maine). People were very hospitable and made us meals and food for the rest of the journey.
It was freezing cold in Moncton but the huts were very warm and I remember barrels of apples at the end of each hut, which were always kept topped up with crisp, juicy, sweet red apples. Although well below zero outside, we never seemed to feel the cold. Time-off was spent in the town of Moncton, mostly in Macdonald's(?) drug store, eating very cheap T-bone steaks and drinking pints of milk. No shortage of food made it a regular paradise after rationing. We also spent hours ten-pin bowling, both in Moncton and in the alley back at camp.
I cannot remember what we did on duty, but do remember coming into contact with a Welsh corporal by the name of Gee who was the most obnoxious individual I have ever come across and who made our life a misery. It was a relief to join the epidemic of Scarlet Fever that swept through the camp. I was quite ill but lucky to find that one of the doctors was the husband of one of the girls that I had worked with at Sandroyd. He helped me when I was fit enough for convalescent leave by suggesting that I didn't go on my own to Montreal but to stay with one of the local families who took in Service people and looked after them. He introduced me to a couple called Tait who lived in Shediac, a place some 50 miles away, near or at the coast. They seemed to like me and 2 days later arrived back to take me home with them. They already had a number of Australian 'Tour Ex' aircrew staying with them, a couple of whom were in a very bad state and were being sent home by way of Canada and America.
[photograph]
The Tait residence was a huge detached property and they had a lovely red setter dog called Terry who took an immediate fancy to me for some reason and was my constant companion for the rest of my stay with them.
The Taits cosseted me right from the start and were most intrigued to find that Mum's maiden name was the same as theirs. They were most concerned when they saw my patched pyjamas and other clothes and really didn't understand when I told them about
9
[page break]
clothes rationing and all the other shortages. They immediately took me shopping to buy a whole set of new clothes and underclothes. Early in my stay they asked if I had ever had oysters and when I said no they immediately took me to a place called Pointe du Cheyne(?), which was 75 miles away up the coast, for an evening meal out. The place specialised in fried oysters and I had a whole plateful of them. They were marvellous and the taste still lingers on even though I have never had them again since. They seemed to think nothing of a 75-mile drive each way just for a meal out. I was introduced to all the inhabitants of Shediac – or so it seemed – and during my stay with them took me all over New Brunswick, visiting all the towns and villages and spent a day in Fredrickton visiting various relatives at the University.
It was a terrible break to have to leave them and get back to real life. One thing however was somewhat sobering and that was the discussions I had with the Australians before they left. I learnt from them what it was really going to be like to go on Bomber operations once training was finished.
Almost as soon as I reported back to camp in Moncton I was posted to No 1 Central Navigation School – Rivers Manitoba. The trip was a 3-day ride on the train and that in itself was a fascinating experience. Eventually I arrived at the town of Brandon after a short stop off in Winnipeg.
No. 76A Navigation Course began almost as soon as I had arrived and lasted from 17th May 1943 to 1st October 1943. After nearly a month of groundwork, I had my first flight in an aeroplane on 5th June 1943. I spent 3 hours 10 minutes in Anson 6882 flown by P/O Davey. [underlined] [italics] I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it. [/italics] [/underlined]
[photograph]
76A Navigation Course 17th May – 1st October 1943,
No. 1 Central Navigation School, Rivers Manitoba, Canada
The others on the course were an amazingly good bunch and a number of us used to work and play together in almost perfect harmony. Only three pupils were 'scrubbed', for various reasons, during the course and the list of those completing the course is in my green photo album. Seven of us formed a small group.
Paul Bailey
Ken Waine
Joe Meadows
Doug Holt
Rick Richardson
Don Finlayson
10
[page break]
We were given regular 48-hour passes and the 75 miles on the train to Winnipeg was quite an easy journey. At Eatons, the major department store, we were able to arrange to stay with local people. Nearly all my visits were to a family living in Assiniboine Drive but quite early on Don Finlayson discovered that he had a relation in Winnipeg that he had never heard of before and we spent most of the time at his place, only going back to the others to sleep. I do not remember the name of the people I used to stay with, although I have a vague recollection that their name might be Oliver.
Finlayson's relatives had a youngish daughter and before long all seven of us paired up with other girls. As can be seen from the photo album we enjoyed many happy hours in the Cave Supper Club and danced to the music of Marsh Phimister (Marsh was still around in 1979 when we returned to Winnipeg to visit my cousin Tom Moore4 & his wife Marg!).
THE CAVE SUPPER CLUB
[photograph]
Date SEP 15 1948 No. 9 GIBSON
On one 48-hour pass I travelled to Toronto (or Montreal, I can't remember which) to meet my cousin Tom, whom I had never met before, but still managed to find him amongst the crowds on the Mainline Station. He took me to Hamilton Ontario were [sic] he was billeted. I think we also went to London Ontario but am not certain. He looked after me quite well and we seemed to get on well together, although it was a very short visit before I had to get back to camp.
Although I had never done very well at school, I suddenly discovered that I was just as clever (if not more so) as the others and I began to do well on the course. In the end I managed to finish 2nd on the course and along with 6 others was given an immediate commission as a Pilot Officer whilst all the others were promoted to Sergeant.
About the 5th October I returned to Moncton and almost straight away entrained to Halifax and boarded the Aquatania (or was it the Mauretania?). We sailed without a convoy again but had air cover at both ends with only a small gap in the middle. It was a smooth crossing, in much superior accommodation to that on the journey out. I met a Canadian who, it subsequently turned out, used to work opposite Tom Moore at Ogilvy Mills in Medicine Hat. – Small world!
We landed back at Greenock and I was posted to Harrogate for Officer kitting-out and indoctrination. I stayed at the Queen's Hotel in some luxury and, as there were lots of Civil Servants evacuated to Harrogate, the social life was extremely good. Went to numerous dances and parties including Christmas and New Year.
4Tom Moore (1916-1992) Margaret (nee Rutherford) (1914-1999)
11
[page break]
1944
Posted to No. 1 (O) A.F.U. (Advanced Flying Unit) Wigton, Scotland on or about 10th January and started No. 193 Air Navigators AFU Course.
Towards the end of January I 'went sick' with an undulant fever. Local Medical Officer did not believe me until I got rapidly worse and eventually was transferred to Hospital near Stranraer where Glandular fever was diagnosed. Whilst there, a survivor from a crashed Anson was brought in and all the 'stops' were pulled out to help him survive. Although nearly every bone in his body was broken he gradually rallied and started to make a miraculous recovery. Having recovered from Glandular Fever, I was diagnosed to have a mild leukaemia and started getting massive injections of iron and ate liver until it almost came out of my ears. Walked for miles in the surrounding countryside with some of the other patients and after a while felt fitter than I had for a long time.
I rejoined No. 226 Course on 7th April and finally finished there on 2nd May. I was posted to No. 12 O.T.U. (Operational Training Unit) at a place called Chipping Warden near Banbury. I arrived at Banbury railway station on my own and started enquiring about transport to the RAF Station. I met a Squadron Leader Pilot who informed me that he had already arranged for transport, which would be along in 'about an hour'. We sat and talked and I learned that he was called Nigel Macfarlane (Mac), a Rhodesian, who had already done a 'tour' in Hampdens. He told me that we were both two days late for the start of the course, although through no fault of our own. He seemed to be quite interested in me and my background.
When we arrived on the course, we discovered that most of the others had already had time to choose their own crews and Mac immediately asked me to be his navigator. Together we then looked around for the rest of the crew.
Eventually we got ourselves sorted out and finished up with
Pilot – Squadron Leader Nigel G. Macfarlane
Navigator – Pilot Officer Dennis Moore
Bomb Aimer – Pilot Officer Fred H. Shepherd
Wireless Operator – Sergeant 'Napper' Dennis Evans
Mid Upper Gunner – Sergeant Jimmy Bourke
Rear Gunner – Sergeant 'Nobby' Clarke (655)
The Flight Engineer, Sergeant 'Johnnie' Forster (later to become Pilot Officer), joined us later – after we had left Chipping Warden.
Fred Shepherd wore an 'N' brevet as he had completed a Navigation Course but for some reason had been re-mustered to Bomb Aimer at the end of his course?
The OCU aircraft identification was 'FQ'. All the flying was done in Wellingtons and it is worth noting that one of these – Z1735 – 'S', actually set a record of longevity by operating at this unit from early 1942 until January 1945. We only flew in this aircraft once. During the course both Fred & I were made Flying Officers and the Sergeants promoted to Flight/Sergeant.
We were on an exercise on the night of 5/6th June (D-day), and at the time could not understand why there were so many other aircraft in the sky!
On the 10th July we completed our first Operational flight on what was called a 'Nickel'. We dropped leaflets over Angers in France. The trip was successful and no difficulties other than 'Flak' were encountered.
Much of our flying here was from the 'satellite' airfield of Edgehill which was some distance away and actually on the site of the old battlefield.
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We finished our training about the 15th July, by which time we all seemed to work well together and all the instructors rated Mac very highly.
Posted to No. 1653 HCU (Heavy Conversion Unit) Chedburgh, Suffolk, on or about 28th July after leave. Flying on Stirlings commenced on the 14th August, firstly on 'A' Flight doing mostly circuits and bumps by day & night and then on 'C' & 'D' Flight doing Cross Country, followed by high level bombing practice. During the course we had 2 undercarriage collapses but otherwise the Stirling was quite a pleasant aircraft to fly in.
We did a fair bit of interchange of jobs except that our flight engineer, Johnny Forster had now joined us and he got the major share of actually flying it. I had a short lesson and also a session in the rear turret. It was here that I discovered that I did not feel at all happy looking down. I actually dropped a stick of practice bombs and did very well. On the ground we also did exercises at each other's job and on the gunnery range my '4 sec' burst disintegrated the moving target!
Whilst doing each other's jobs we found out that Mac (the pilot) had attended the Specialist Navigators Course just when the war started (he had come over from Rhodesia and joined the Air Force in 1938). This made three of us who were so-called navigators and it could have presented a problem, particularly as Fred Shepherd rather fancied himself in that role. However, on one trip, Fred started to try and give changes of aircraft heading to Mac from 'pinpoints' that he had observed on the ground without letting me know. Mac had no hesitation in telling the whole crew that, although there were two others who 'at a pinch' could possibly take over, there was only one navigator in the aircraft whilst he was Captain and that was me!! – and he had every faith in my ability to look after all of us as far as the navigation was concerned. This certainly boosted my ego and from then on we all got on famously.
The course was completed on the 4th September and we were quickly posted to No. 3 LFS (Lancaster Finishing School) at Feltwell where we arrived on 7th. Feltwell was a grass airfield with no runways but, nevertheless, we finished our conversion in 4 days and then rushed to No. 218 Squadron at Methwold so that Mac could take over the job of c/o 'A' Flight. We discovered that a few nights previously the Squadron had lost 5 aircraft, one of the crews being the Flight Commander. This was somewhat of a shattering experience to start off with but fortunately our first operation was a relatively easy one, bombing by daylight 'V1' bomb sites at Boulogne. 'Flak' (Anti-Aircraft shells) was quite heavy but there was no fighter activity.
During the rest of September we did two more daylight trips and 1 night trip to Neuss near Dusseldorf. During the early days of Oct. we converted to a form of specialised bombing called 'G.H' – an extension of OBOE. This used a tracking beam and a crossing beam for the release point. On this system the bomb aimer only had to set up the bomb release and I did the actual bombing run and release. The exercises we did proved to be extremely accurate and we regularly dropped practise bombs to within 50 yards from 20,000 feet.
Methwold was built just before the war but had no permanent brick buildings and accommodation was in Nissen huts dispersed in the woods, some over a mile from the Mess, which could only be reached over muddy footpaths. It started to get quite cold in these huts quite early on and scrounging for fuel for the stoves became a major pastime. Barbara Sharp, who used to live five doors from us in Beddington, turned up at Methwold but she did not stay for long. The film 'Journey together' was shot at Methwold and David Tomlinson the actor (of 'Bedknobs & Broomsticks' with Julie Andrews) was on one of the Squadrons. The author – Miles Tripp was a bomb-aimer on the Squadron and his book "The Eighth Passenger" tells of his crew and what happened to them both during and after the war. He talks of one trip taking off at a certain time when we actually took off 1 minute before him on the same operation. My experience and his seemed to differ completely on this particular occasion (see copy of his book obtained 20/01/1994!!).
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During October we completed 2 daylights and 3 night ops and after 1 trip (at night) in November Mac was posted to Mildenhall as Commanding Officer No. 15 (XV) Squadron and promoted to Wing Commander. The next day he sent an aircraft over to fetch us and we then joined the Squadron officially. As the C/O's crew we did less trips than anyone else and as Mac decided to act as a check pilot for the first trip with all new crews, we were asked to fly with one of the Flight Commanders called Flight Lieutenant Pat Percy (known to us as 'Tojo'). This was not a popular move as he was not of the same calibre as Mac but for special trips Mac flew with us and the difference was noticeable by everyone. Tojo was promoted to Squadron Leader in mid-December and we finished the month carrying out 3 daylight and 3 night trips. One of these was as 'Master Bomber' on the Schwammenauel Dam with Mac.
[photograph]
Mildenhall, December 1944
XV Squadron crew, with Lancaster "C" Charlie, ME844
[photograph] [photograph]
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1945
New Year's day opened the month with a 6 hour 5 minute night trip and during the rest of the month a further two night ops and three day trips were completed. On the 14th, returning from Saarbrucken, the East Anglian weather deteriorated so much that all aircraft had to be diverted. We finished up at Predannack in Cornwall and it was an absolute shambles. It is amazing that there were not any collisions as aircraft with very little fuel left tried to get into unknown airfields.
Most of our spare time when 'ops' were not in the offing we used to spend at the Bull at Barton Mills. Mac had his wife Margaret (from Nottingham) and his baby son Ian living there and the whole crew went to keep her company, particularly when Mac himself was not able to be there (see note at end of 1945). He often went with 'Sprog' crews on their first operation, to try and make sure that they were capable of operating on their own. We made many friends from No. 90 Squadron based at Tuddenham, which was also nearby and particularly with a Squadron Leader Pete Dunham and his crew who we subsequently saw blowing up on a daylight operation (see scrapbooks)
Only 2 trips in February (1 day – 1 night) both with Mac, and during this time Johnnie Forster was commissioned and Fred & I took him to London to get kitted out.
About this time I first met Pam. She was going out with Fred and visited him at Mildenhall. For some reason or other we were walking back to camp from the village as a group and Fred chose to go off with somebody else and Pam walked back with me.
Also around about this time I had bought a car and 'passed my test' by driving on leave with 4 passengers down through the centre of London. BAU 62 was a blue Ford saloon named 'EROS' which I bought for £30 at an auction of the effects of a deceased pilot.
Sometime during the month, my sister Joyce came up to visit. She stayed at a small pub quite near the main camp. I have always thought that it was called the George but visits in recent years have failed to find a pub with this name. [italics] (27/05/2014 – Fred Shepherd confirmed that it was "The Bird in Hand" which is just outside the old main gate – Ed) [/italics]
7 Daylight ops during March and mostly with a Canadian bomb-aimer called Tom Butler who stood in for Fred who was deputising for the Bombing Leader. On most of these we led either the Squadron, the Base (No. 32) or the whole Group. A Base was a small group of RAF airfields & 3 Group comprised all the Heavy Bomber Squadrons in East Anglia. All these 'daylights' were flown in quite tight formation – depending on the opposition! To boost moral back at the Squadron, our return over the airfield was always in as tight a formation as possible. On 23rd March we bombed a very precise area on the German side of the Rhine at Wesel (we were the lead aircraft), in preparation for our troops crossing. From all the aircraft bombing, 80 despatched and 77 actually bombed, only one bomb fell outside the perimeter (not us!) and that was as a result of a 'hang up' and not the fault of the crew. In Dudley Saward's authorised biography of "Bomber" Harris, this attack was listed as – 'perhaps the best example of direct support of the Army were the attacks on troop concentrations in Wesel on 23rd March by seventy seven heavies dropping 435.5 tons of bombs immediately prior to the Army launching its crossing of the Rhine and capturing Wesel'. Montgomery wrote to Harris – "My grateful appreciation of the quite magnificent co-operation you have given us. The bombing of Wesel yesterday was a masterpiece and was a decisive factor in making possible our entry into that town before midnight".
At this stage of Bombing Operations in Europe the number of 'Ops' required to complete a 'Tour' changed week by week. At the beginning of the year it was more or less standard at 30 but then it went up, first to 35 then to 40 before coming back down to 35 again in early March. When we went on our 33rd trip on 14th April we still expected to have at least another two to do. It was very much of a pleasant surprise to be told that we had finished as the tour had just been reduced again to 30!! One of the most difficult of trips was always the last with the crew
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so worked up that inevitably things went wrong and the crew failed to return. We were lucky not to have had to go through that trauma. Although so late on in the war, losses were still extremely high, with aircraft being shot down by flak and the more modern German fighters even by rocket aircraft. Losses averaged 5% per trip right up to the end. The end of the European war (VE Day) came on my last day of 'End of Tour' leave and after some celebrations on the way eventually got back to camp to find the mess having a huge party which spread onto the front lawn with fireworks and a colossal bonfire.
Without having much time to think about what was happening, the crew split up and I was posted to Catterick for "Disposal", leaving on the following day. I drove up to Catterick on official petrol coupons and went through the boring process of half choosing and half being told where to go next. At the time it seemed like a good idea to elect for Transport Command to get away from having to stay in Bomber Command and being posted to the Far East in what was known as 'Tiger Force'. I had hoped that I could get on to routes in-and-around Europe!!
After a further leave, when I had to drive on 'acquired' petrol, I was eventually posted to No. 109 Transport OTU Crosby-on-Eden near Carlisle, arriving around the beginning of June. After 4 weeks 'Ground' school – after a false start, I crewed up with:
Pilot – Flying Officer 'Butch' Harris
Signaller – Warrant Officer Ernie Omerod
and flying on DC3 (Dakotas) began on the 7th July and finished on 27th August. On the 1st August the unit was reorganised as 1383 Transport Conversion Unit and it was here that the news of the dropping of the Atom Bombs was announced, as well as the end of the war. Another tremendous party to celebrate.
I was then posted to India! Departed for Morecombe to await transit instructions. Pam came up for few days and we went fishing for Dabs with the others! On 7th October departed for Holmsley South (Hampshire) and the following day we left in a York (MW167) of 246 Squadron for Karachi via Malta, Cairo and Shiebah, arriving on the 10th. Spent a whole month kicking our heels in Mauripur (Karachi) before moving on (see photo album).
On 16th November departed in Sunderland (ML786) for Calcutta. Had a 7 1/2-hour flight, taking-off and landing in the appropriate rivers and enjoying the luxury of a civilian aircraft even though flown by a Wing Commander.
Arrived on 52 Squadron at Dum Dum, Calcutta and almost immediately started route flying in Dakotas. Places visited:
Akyab
Bangkok
Bombay
Canton
Chakulia
Chittagong
Comilla
Hong Kong
Meiktila
Nagpur
Rangoon
Saigon
Although now 3 months since the war finished, there were still the last of the Japanese soldiers (now prisoners) working at various places we flew to and there was much evidence of the utter destruction caused by their occupation. Most of our flights were to ferry the civil and military occupation forces back and forth and even to the more remote areas.
Christmas Eve and Christmas Day were spent on a round trip to Rangoon via Meiktila where our Xmas Dinner was a bacon 'sarni' (we actually had flown in the bacon!)
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1946
New Year's day was spent en-route to Bombay having only returned the night before from Rangoon again. During the month we flew some 71 hours.
Until 5th May we flew with only very short breaks in between and in one month (March) flew 106 hours. It was in March when we had to divert whilst flying over Hainan Island and the only option open to us was to go to Canton (China). We became the first British aircraft to land there since the beginning of the war. As I was the senior British Officer on board the aircraft, the British Consul would only talk to me even though I was not Captain of the aircraft. He was virtually useless and was going to try and arrange for various families to accommodate us in ones and two? The American Consul offered to put everyone up in his Headquarters and I agreed to this much to the annoyance of the British bloke (I seem to remember his name was HALL). Within a few minutes everything was arranged and all 30 odd people allocated a bed, even though somewhat crowded. The crew adjourned to the bar and, as the song 'Rum & Coca-Cola' was all the rage at the time, that's what we decided to have. It slid down very easily and after eating out at a local Chinese Café we eventually returned rather noisily, tripping over various passengers beds in the process. In the morning 7 of the passengers refused to fly with us and decided to return to Hong-Kong by boat. We did the trip in a matter of minutes whilst they took nearly the whole day. To give them their due, when we met up again in Hong-Kong, their spokesman apologised to us and admitted that we knew our own job better than they thought we did and then he bought us all a further round of 'Rum & Coke'.
Soon after this episode we were allocated a very young 2nd pilot called Terry Glover, who ousted me from my usual position in the right-hand seat. After a very scary let-down into Hong-Kong (letting down well out to sea and flying very low level over the water and between the numerous islands) we were guided by our new pilot into a dead-end which was not very popular with 'Butch', who immediately climbed very rapidly, put me back in the right-hand seat and then did a smart 180 before doing another letdown. This time I was lucky enough to find the right way through the islands and from then on I always sat in the front unless the conditions were CAVU (Clear and Visibility unlimited). In 1946 Kaitak airfield was a very different airfield compared to today. The main runway was usually only used from one end (from seaward) as a 1200ft. mountain blocked the other end. It was just possible to land the other way by just scraping the top of the 'Hill' and cutting back on everything, dropping like a stone then pulling out at the last moment!! We did it a number of times but only when the weather was good and even then it was quite exciting. After the war the whole of the mountain was removed and dumped in the sea at the other end of the runway, thus extending the runway considerably. Photos in the brown embossed album just about show this hill. More pictures in the album show various other views and other places. We stayed in a transit 'Hotel' called the 'Arlington' and did a great deal of sightseeing. Bearing in mind that the colony had only just been recovered from the Japanese, there was plenty to see and do. A suite in the Peninsular Hotel (the largest at the time) had been occupied by the Japanese General commanding the colony and was fitted out to remind him of home and even had a little stream running through the bedroom!!
One of the delights of our stays in Hong-Kong was the chance to be able to drink fresh cold milk and we always made a beeline for the local Milk-Bar as soon as we arrived and indulged in the luxury of a long cold pint!! Food also seemed plentiful and we fed well in one or the other of a Russian Café on the mainland, which was called "Timoschenko's" or the "Paris Grille" over on Kowloon.
Our stops in Saigon were also not without their drama as well as relaxation. The French always resented our having taken over from them and a continuous subtle 'infighting' was always taking place. The airfield was run by a joint-force and both the French and British Flags flew side by side on separate flagpoles over the airfield Control Tower. The British troops started one night by taking the French pole down and sawing a foot off the end before putting it back up so that their flag was slightly lower than ours. Apparently it took them a long time to notice but when they did, they reciprocated. Eventually new flagpoles were required and these
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got progressively longer and longer. One evening we arrived to discover the French very much up in arms because the following day their General Leclerc was coming on an inspection visit and they had caught our chaps taking their flag away altogether. As a result we were prevented from parking our aircraft in its usual position and were made to place it in part of a semi circle of aircraft on the tarmac in front of the Control Tower. We told them that we needed to leave at our usual time the following morning (around 8.30 to 9.00) to give us plenty of time in daylight for the 6 1/2-hour flight to Hong-Kong. They chose to ignore us and insisted we park where they told us, despite our protests. When we arrived early the next morning from our hotel in the town, French troops and a large band were already drawn up inside the semi circle, awaiting the arrival of General Leclerc. We carried out our normal preparations, including starting up the engines and testing them out! This infuriated the French and when we went back into the Control Tower for Met. and Flight Clearance briefing, they threatened to arrest us. The British staff winked, gave us a full briefing, with both Met. and the arrival times of visiting dignitaries, and assured us that they would give us taxi and take-off clearance. Walking casually through the French ranks, we informed one of the officers that they would need to move whilst we taxied out but nobody moved. We then decided that it was time to go, so started up our engines again and called for taxi clearance. We got no reply so started to move forward very slowly. The troops decided to give us room to get through and moved aside, but as we turned it was necessary to rev up the port engine and this we did somewhat more enthusiastically than usual. When we managed to look back the bandsmen were chasing their sheet music all over the airfield, so we gave an extra blast just to complete the havoc. As we did so the controller came through advising us to take off immediately and clear the area. Once airborne, the British controller bid us 'good-day' and thanked us for our 'co-operation' and we could hear the glee in his voice. Almost immediately we were formatted upon by 4 Free French Spitfires and we had visions of them shooting us down. However, they stayed with us for nearly 10 minutes before breaking away sharply and going back the way we had come. We found out on the return visit that they thought we were the General's aircraft and that the General's aircraft had landed before they got back. Apparently he was NOT amused to have to arrive without an escort and the Band still not fully reformed!!
On top of all this there were Dacoits and Bandits operating in the area, and there were gunfights around the airfield and Saigon on a number of occasions. Despite all this we enjoyed our leisure in Saigon, the French Club 'Ciercle Sportif' (see Photos).
About this time, I had applied for a job with BOAC through Mr. Robson who was something to do with the Ministry of Transport. I had been given a very good character assessment by our Squadron Commander (see his remarks in my Log-Book) and had hoped that the experience of 'route' flying would stand me in good stead.
In mid May we were given 2 weeks leave and we decided to find the coolest spot we could, so decided to visit Darjeeling. We went by train to a place called Siliguri, which is at the base of the Himalayas. By the time we got there we were hotter than ever and did not relish another train ride up to Darjeeling. However, we joined a miniature train which slowly but surely wound its way up the mountains and it got progressively cooler all the time. When it got near to the top it was going round and round like a corkscrew and in many places it was possible to step off the train, as it was moving very slowly, and then walk up a few steps to meet the line again and wait for the train to come past again. There is a picture of this in the photo album and this little railway is in fact quite famous. By the time we reached Darjeeling I was freezing cold and we had to hang about whilst accommodation was arranged for us. I remember flopping down on a bed in a dingy "guest house" and the next thing I remembered was waking up in the local Forces Hospital. It seemed that I had gone down with a severe bout of flu and some other chest bug as well. I was extremely well looked after in this hospital and there were a number of Sikh and Ghurka officers in the place as well. They all had serious complaints of some sort but as I got better they were a good crowd to be with. Towards the end of the 14 days leave, the others that I had come up to Darjeeling with departed back to Calcutta and I was given an indefinite extension, with sick leave on top. Before leaving the hospital, I was taken by the others to visit the highest racecourse in the world. It was at a place called Lebong and was at 14,000 feet. It was about the size of a large football ground and spent most of the time in
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cloud. Betting was a hazardous affair, as it was not unknown for the horses to disappear into cloud on the far side of the curse, only to re-appear in a completely different order when they came back into view! However, it was very pleasant to be able to sit in a reserved box, rather like the Royal Box at Epsom, drinking our cool drinks and placing a bet when the mood took us. We never ever won anything but nevertheless didn't lose much either. One morning, very early, a whole gang of us hired horses and rode the 15 miles or so to a place called Tiger Hill where we hoped to witness sunrise over Everest. We did see Everest but the sunrise was not quite where we had thought it should be. It was a magnificent sight, however, and well worth the effort to get there. The ride back was less pleasant and we all finished up vowing never to ride a horse again. Needless to say I never have.
One of the patients from the Hospital was a chap called Captain Weston who had a very rare skin complaint which was caused by the heat and humidity of the climate on the plains. His skin peeled off in layers and as a result he nearly died. It was only in the cool of the hills that his skin was able to grow again but as soon as the Medics tried to get him back home the whole process started again. Apparently on one occasion they got him as far as Calcutta ready to catch a plane out but unfortunately the aircraft takeoff was delayed and they had to rush him back to Darjeeling having already lost nearly the whole of his skin again and once again seriously ill. I have often wondered what ever happened to him when I left.
So many people out in India and the Far East suffered from skin problems as well as the dysentery types of disease. Apart from the time in Darjeeling I cannot remember being free from some form of diarrhoea varying from slight to chronic as well as 'Prickly Heat'. We all took Malarial prevention tablets called Mepachrine, which gave a yellowy tinge to the skin. Having the 'Trots' while flying was somewhat of a problem in itself. The Dakota only had one toilet and with 35 odd passengers most of whom suffered from the same problem made things somewhat complicated!! The prickly heat was no respecter of rank and once we had an Air Commodore on board who asked if he could come up front so that he could take his Bush Jacket off and get some cold air to his body. I had never before seen anyone who was so badly affected. His whole body was one mass of it and most was infected through scratching. We opened the side windows for him and after about an hour's flying he got some slight relief. He was most grateful to us and thanked us profusely before going back to the cabin to exercise his authority over the more junior members of his party. The Medics had no cures for any of these problems in those days although they could bring some help to the dysentery sufferers.
I was very reluctant to leave the cool of Darjeeling but eventually had to and took a mad taxi ride down through the tea plantations to the railway at Siliguri and almost finished up with a heart attack as the driver was desperate to show off his skill at negotiating hairpin bends on two wheels and only one hand on the steering. The road drops from about 12,000 feet to sea level in something like 15 miles and did not seem to go more than a few hundred yards without at least one hairpin to turn back on itself. The heat at sea level hit me like an oven and the train ride back to Calcutta was enough to make me swear never to complain about being too cold again. When you are cold at least you can find some way of keeping warm but there was absolutely no way out there that you could cool off when you were too hot.
Back in Calcutta the Monsoon had started with a vengeance but I was immediately informed that I was on the next 'demob' contingent and also that I had been offered a job as Navigator with BOAC as soon as I was 'demobbed'. Very soon after I was on the train again, en-route to Bombay. This took 3 days and we played cards nearly the whole time. I swore that I would never play 'Solo' again after that. It was sweltering hot the whole time and we had all the windows open to catch the air from the movement of the train but most of the time we just got the smoke and smuts from the engine. Food was only available at each of the many stops and since the train was only carrying troops it was a mad rush each time and more often than not we had to scramble back onto the train as it started to pull out of the station without having got anything.
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At Bombay we waited in the transit camp at WORLI until our turn came. After about two weeks we finally boarded the SS Samaria, a small passenger boat, which we were told would take 13-14 days to reach home. As we sailed out of the harbour a large liner steamed in and we were told that it would embark its passengers and sail again within 12 hours and only take 7 days to get home. Sure enough the following day we were galled to see it steaming passed [sic] us with all the troops on her decks jeering at us as they shot past. We were absolutely livid at the time and as everyone was anxious to get home as soon as possible we all felt hard done by. However, we heard later that the liner had broken down and had turned round and gone back to Bombay during the night. Like the tortoise and the hare the laugh was on us as we chugged slowly but surely and arrived in Liverpool after 12 days.
After disembarking we were quickly put through the 'demob' procedure including handing in our air force kit, medicals and being issued with civilian clothes and a rail warrant home and with the minimum of fuss we caught the train to London. All this happened within 24 hours of disembarking and, similarly quickly, arrangements were made for our Wedding on 19th October at St. Andrews church Leytonstone. After a Honeymoon in Hastings I was due to start with BOAC at the beginning of November. However, following a visit to my old civilian company to tell them that I did not want my old job back, I was introduced to Air Commodore Powell who was running SILVER CITY AIRWAYS and decided to join them instead, which I did on 5th November. On the 8th I was navigating an Avro Lancastrian G-AHBW (City of London) from London Heathrow to Nairobi Eastleigh, Captained by Ex-Wing Commander Johnny Sauvage DSO & bar, DFC, arriving back to the 4 huts of Heathrow on the 24th. During December we did 3 trips to Malta and back, one of them in the then record time of 4 hours 55 minutes (see cutting from the Malta Times). Thus ended a very eventful Year.
[photograph]
Sliver [sic] City Airways – December 1946
Johnny Sauvage and crew with Lancastrian G-AHBW “City of London”
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1947
At the end of my RAF Transport Command Course at Crosby on Eden in 1945, I had been
awarded a certificate which was recognised by the Department of Civil Aviation. Also in February 1946 I had been awarded a Second Class Navigation Warrant number 422, which was also recognised by the D of CA. Whilst working in the office of Silver City Airways (1 Great Cumberland Place, London), I was able to study the additional subjects required to obtain a Civil Aircraft Navigator's Licence. I passed all except [underlined] signalling [/underlined] and re-took this and one other subject to obtain full First Class Civil Licence in May. After another full aircrew medical, licence number 2116 was issued on 7th June 1947.
On 13th June I started flying again with Captain Storm-Clark in G-AHBV "City of Canberra" to Verona. After a further 2 months in their office (during which time Terry was born, we moved from 63 Fladgate Road, Leytonstone, to38 Warham Road, South Croydon, as well as attending a XV Squadron reunion at the Holborn Restaurant on 22nd August), I joined up with Captain R. C. "Hoppy" Hopkins as his navigator on a VIP Dakota G-AJAV. This aircraft was very luxuriously fitted out, with only 6 seats and very superior accommodation. Hoppy immediately 'promoted' me to 'pupil pilot under instruction' and I spent most of my flying time with him sitting in the second pilot's seat, often on my own, while he chatted with the passengers. We flew to France, Belgium, Germany, Portugal and Iceland, as well as locally. I was very disappointed when the aircraft was chartered to fly Churchill out to Marrakesh and I was taken out of the crew. Another pilot took my place to act as formal second pilot/navigator. Hoppy was very upset particularly as the new chap was not a very experienced pilot and had never previously acted as navigator. He had long arguments with the MD of the company (Air Commodore Powell) expressing the opinion that he 'would rather fly with an experienced navigator who at a pinch could fly the aircraft than fly with a not very experienced pilot who, at a pinch, might possibly be able to navigate the aircraft'. Unfortunately the MD would not give way and blamed the charterers, who had insisted on there being two qualified pilots on board and the firm could not afford to have a crew of four (excluding stewards etc.).
In the event I was sent to Belfast to pick up a crew to ferry a Sandringham flying-boat to Buenos Aires. The pilot was called 'Pappy' Carreras (because of his age) and we got on famously together. As well as navigator I was 'promoted' to become 'Mooring Officer', which meant that I stood in the bows to slip the mooring before take-off and had to attempt to catch the mooring buoy with a boat-hook on landing. I had thought that slipping the mooring would be very simple but more often than not it was impossible to do as the aircraft was pulling against the tide and the loop would not come off without the engines being revved hard to take up the slack. Often we surged forward so quickly that I did not have time to get the loop off before we were passing the buoy – still attached to it. Mooring after landing was also just as tricky and I lost a number of boat-hooks before I finally mastered the technique!!
On the way we ate and slept in the 'boat' as the accommodation and cooking facilities were superb. On the leg between Dakar (West Africa) and Natal (Brazil), Pappy commented that although he had done the crossing a number of times, he had never seen Saint Paul's rocks. I gaily said that this time we would see them, not realising how small they were in the wide expanse of ocean. He immediately took me up on it and some 8 hours later (the crossing took 10 hours 20 minutes) was more than astonished when I suggested that if the others were to look out of the starboard windows they might see the rocks in about 5 minutes time. More by pure luck than anything to do with me, we passed them some 6 minutes later about 1/2 mile away. From then on I could do no wrong!!
Pappy had flown during the Spanish Civil War in 1936 but unfortunately for him – on the wrong side – so that he was no longer able to go home. His flying with F.A.M.A. (Flota Aerea Merchante Argentina) meant that he had to be very careful not to ever get diverted to Spain.
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Christmas day was spent in Buenos Aires and I was able to buy some presents there that I could not get at home. (A Tri-ang bus (No. 15) and Xmas Decorations – some of which are still in use today!!) We arrived back in London on New Years Eve (without Pappy who of course normally operated from B.A.)
As a result of my various trips abroad I did not spend much time at home, although when I did, I usually was able to have plenty of time-off from work.
Sometime round about October, Terry had gone into Great Ormond St. Hospital to have a growth removed from his neck. It was more difficult to remove than had originally been thought and when he was able to come home he became very ill with Gastro Enteritis and was taken to the Mayday Hospital in Croydon. He was desperately ill to start off with and took a long time to recover.
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1948
Worked mostly in the office until April, having attended a 52 Squadron Reunion at the Waldorf Hotel on 20th February when, on 8th April, I ferried a MOSQUITO out of Turkey via Jersey & Rome landing at IZMIR. Had trouble with Turkish Customs over three wooden deer bought in Rome. They could not seem to understand way anyone should want to buy such things! An insight into to [sic] the mentality of the Turks we came into contact with is highlighted by the fact that the Turkish government had purchased 100 odd SPITFIRES and a similar number of 'Mossies'. The deliveries were almost complete by the time we took ours out there but they only had managed to have one Mosquito & two Spits' remaining serviceable by that time. The story goes that one Spitfire XI was delivered one evening and the pilot handed it over to the ground crew asking if there was anything they wanted to know about it. During the night it rained hard and when they were getting it ready for a test flight they discovered that the cockpit had a pool of water in it. To cover up the fact that the cockpit hood had been left open in the rain, one bright spark took his drill with the biggest bit that he could find and bored a series of holes in the floor and to let the water drain out!! The Turkish pilot duly took off but came back in after a fairly short flight and refused to sign the acceptance certificate because the aircraft would not pressurise. Apparently the Spitfire XI was one of the first aircraft to have cockpit pressurisation!!!
In May we went to Canada to pick up a Dakota which had just been converted for a company in South Africa. I stayed in Montreal whilst the rest of the crew went down into the States to pick it up. At the time I thought the whole set-up seemed strange but the fact that aircraft were being flown illegally into Israel at the time never occurred to me. Eventually we set off from Montreal to Newfoundland but I didn't prepare properly and we wandered miles off course and I was unable to get a pinpoint fix because I could not recognise any ground feature. Since I had been sitting in the second pilot's seat I eventually decided to go back and try to fathom out why we were 'lost'. After a long period I suddenly realised what I had done wrong – I had borrowed a Canadian map that had the various airline tracks marked on and along the side were the courses to steer. What I had not noticed was that they were magnetic and not [underlined] true [/underlined] bearings. I had applied a correction for the wind and applied variation as usual to arrive at the course for the pilot to steer. As variation in that part of the world was something like 30 degrees, we had in fact been flying 30 degrees off course!! Once I had sussed this out I was soon able to recognise where we were and to start pointing us back in the right direction. Sighs of relief all round!! If we had had some decent radio equipment aboard it would not have been so bad but the aircraft was stripped right down to bare essentials – In retrospect another odd thing.
When we landed at GANDER my preparation was suddenly very much more thorough, the next leg being across the Atlantic. With the fuel that we could carry there were three choices of route bearing in mind the winds that could be expected in the weather systems that existed. First, to head straight across to Ireland and make for Shannon – this was ruled-out as there would be barely enough fuel to do it. Second, to go southwards to the Azores. This was the best for fuel, wind & weather but without radio navigation aids was rather risky – if we missed our landfall there was nowhere to divert to within range of the fuel remaining (if any!). Third, to head for Iceland, which was much the nearest. Unfortunately, with the low-pressure system to the north, the winds would be headwind and very strong. This would again leave us very short of fuel and, as well as this, the landing conditions forecast were not very good. As a result of our discussions we decided that unless we waited a couple of days for the weather to improve, we should consider a fourth possibility of taking the short leg to Greenland, refuelling and then heading for Iceland the following day. This would only, so we thought, take one more day and would allow us to assess the fuel situation when approaching Iceland and perhaps carry on direct to Scotland and, in fact, save us time. This we finally decided to do and although we were unable to get clearance due to radio interference, the controller assured us that it would be alright as he would radio through later on whilst we were on our way. After a very frightening flight to Bluey West One, up a long fiord, we arrived only to be refused landing permission as the flight had not been cleared. Since there was no way we could get back to Gander and there were no other diversions they eventually agreed to let us land. When we did
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the aircraft was surrounded with soldiers and we were told that we would be interned until clearance could be obtained from Washington because of the Israeli situation!!
So there we sat for 7 days whilst the powers-that-be decided what to do with us. We had all bought loads of food to bring home as meat was still rationed and other foodstuffs were in short supply. We had a small fridge on board the aircraft but they would not allow us to run one engine to keep it cold and they would not store it for us. There we were, surrounded by huge Glaciers, whilst all our 'loot' went slowly off. In the end we had to dump nearly all of it. I got sunburned sitting on the nearest glacier and this did little to improve our tempers. Eventually on the 7th day we were allowed to file a flight plan to Weeks (Iceland) and we took off at 22.45 that night. At that time of year it was still almost broad daylight and we landed and refuelled in Iceland, at night but still light enough to see. Two hours later we were off again and landed at Prestwick after a 5hr 40min flight.
After this I was transferred back to flying with Hoppy but in a Bristol Wayfarer (freighter) this time. The first trip was to Karachi via all the short legs possible. We were delayed in Nicosia whilst a new propeller was sent out and we helped the engineer to change it. There was no help forthcoming from the locals (civilian & RAF) although I cannot remember why. This took 7 days and then we were delayed for a further 9 days by the Iraqi Government, so that the whole trip had taken 24 days. It was about the time of Partition in India and the whole of the region was in turmoil. I met a chap that I knew well who was running some form of charter company out there, who offered me a job on the spot, at a ludicrously high salary, if I would join him the same day. The offer was so attractive that I was sorely tempted but I did not want to break my contract with Silver City and leave Hoppy in the lurch. I suspected that the job was either gun running or illegal transport of refugees, so in the end I turned it down. I was to learn later, that the day after we left he tried to take off from Karachi and the plane was so grossly overloaded in the tail that it stalled just after becoming airborne and all aboard were killed outright. As we suspected the cargo was found to be arms and ammunition!!
The next trip was out to Iraq on charter to IPC (Iraqi Petroleum Company) and we flogged up and down the oil pipelines. Having been stuck in Baghdad last trip we had all suffered from the lack of liquid refreshment (alcohol banned and water somewhat 'iffy'), so I bought two bottles of orange squash in Malta to take with us. When I opened my case in Baghdad I discovered a somewhat wet and sticky mess where one of the bottle tops had come loose. Just about everything was covered in juice but it was not until we got to Bahrein that I was able to get everything washed and the case swilled out! It was lucky that we stayed there an extra day or else I would have had to bring the whole soggy mess back home with me. As it was the case was never the same again, even when I relined the inside with brown paper. Terry had the case for a number of years and finally gave it back to me in 1991!
At the end of September I, along with a number of other navigators, was made redundant and then I started my first experience of having to hunt for a job to keep the family fed!! I applied for a job with Flota Aerea Merchante Argentina and, along with another navigator from Silver City called Ross Plews, was called for an interview in their offices in the West-End. We were horrified to see a crowd of 20 or 30 people waiting and spilling out on to the pavement outside. We debated what to do and had decided that, as we were almost the last ones there, it was not worthwhile waiting. We were just about to walk away, when who should try to push past us than Pappy Carreras, who immediately asked me what the crowd was about. When we explained her said, "Wait there while I check in". This we did and within minutes we were called to the front of the queue, much to the disgust of most of the others, and both of us went into for interview to discover Pappy sitting at the long desk with three other officials and I was introduced to the others by him. He then said, "this is the chap I have flown with down to BA and he is the one I would choose without seeing any of the others. If his friend is as good as him we may as well take him on as well – has anyone any objections? – No! – Good! – That's it then! – Let's send all the others away. Welcome to FAMA Dennis – You are hired”.
That's how I came to be flying on an Argentinean York, en-route to Buenos Aires in the first week of November. We were delayed in Natal for three days whilst an engine fault was
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corrected and I got badly sunburned whilst swimming in the sea when there was no shade. Having arrived in Buenos Aires we were met with welcoming arms and I started to look around for somewhere to live but very shortly after a new decree was issued by Eva Peron (she was the power behind throne!) limiting the number of non-nationals working in the country. As FAMA was 75% British, 15% German and the rest Argentinean, this caused immediate problems and, since we were the last to arrive, we were scheduled as the first to go. I was offered the opportunity to navigate a force of Lincolns as a show of strength over the 'Malvinas', provided I gave up my British nationality and took on Argentine citizenship. This I refused to do and so started a week of negotiations to collect some form of compensation and what was already due to me. The expression 'mañana' really came into play and it took all our wits to find someone high enough in the organisation who had the power to do something about our plight. They, in their turn, did everything they could to beat down our demands. Once again it was Pappy Carreras who came to our rescue and we eventually got a flight back with Pappy (see 'Crossing the Line' certificate) landing back in London on the 3rd of December. We came via Madrid and Pappy had been given permission for the very first time to re-enter Spain. Even then he decided to stay in the Airport – just in case.
Once I got back I was quite surprised to get a number of phone calls from various firms offering me a job and I was able to pick and choose, finally agreeing to start at the beginning of the New Year with Flight Refuelling, the firm founded in 1934 by Sir Alan Cobham to investigate the use of air refuelling, and who's pioneering system is still in use today. The BERLIN AIRLIFT was under way and all the Charter firms were fighting for the work that it generated.
[logo] Berlin Airlift [emblem]
[drawing]
[inserted] TX 276/1281 [/inserted]
AVRO LANCASTRIAN – FLIGHT REFUELLING LTD
47403
On 23 June 1948, the Soviet forces occupying the eastern part of Germany blockaded all rail, road and waterway supply routes from the Allied Western Occupation Zones in Berlin. With less than one month’s supply of food and fuel, the prospects for the two and a half million Berliners looked bleak. Only three severely restricted air routes remained as a lifeline between the besieged city and the western world. The Allies responded immediately with a miracle of logistics – The Berlin Airlift. Codenamed Operation Vittles by the USAF, and Operation Plainfare by the RAF, over a period of 11 months Allied aircraft made thousands of flights into the cramped airspace of Berlin and succeeded in supplying everything the city needed. Every available aircraft from RAF Transport Command was in service, as well as hundreds of USAF aircraft and even civil charter firms were called upon to supplement the effort. The operation became so skilled that the Soviet Command eventually realised that they had failed and on 12 May 1949 the blockade was finally lifted.
Avro Lancastrian G-AGWI represents an aircraft which was originally delivered to British South American Airways (BSAA) at Heathrow in January 1946. The aircraft was registered to the Ministry of Civil Aviation for a short period in 1948 before being sold to Flight Refuelling in January 1949. The aircraft was then allotted fleet no. Tanker 26 and flew 226 sorties on the Berlin Airlift.
[inserted] I FLEW IN 13 OF THEM [/inserted] [diagram]
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1949
I report to Flight Refuelling at Tarrant Rushton and am crewed up with a very experienced ex-Air Lingus pilot. It was not until later that I was to discover that he had been sacked from them due to being drunk in flight! After an air test we departed in a Lancastrian for Wuntsdorf just outside Hanover on 13th January. The airfield was RAF and being used by them to fly Yorks on the airlift. It was very crowded with both aircraft and people and we were billeted in a small place called Bad Nenndorf about 10 miles away. There was a reasonable sized Hotel where all Flight Refuelling crews were accommodated. The following day we did two trips into Gatow carrying PETROL.
B.T. O'reilly was the name of the pilot and he became somewhat of a legend on the lift. However he was not a very reliable pilot when sober and, although he boasted that he could land the aircraft better 'on a sea of gin' than any other time, sometimes he was positively dangerous. On one occasion whilst flying into Gatow, I saw him climb out of his seat and then push past me and go to the back of the aircraft. I thought it would be a good idea to go forward and keep an eye on the instruments to make sure 'George' was doing its job properly. To my consternation, I saw that the aircraft was trimmed into a shallow dive (perhaps to counter his moving to the toilet at the rear of the aircraft?) and there was no sign of him returning back to his seat. When we descended below 1,000 feet I decided to get into his seat and was absolutely astounded to discover that the autopilot was not even engaged. I climbed it back up to the proper altitude and called the wireless operator to go and look for 'BT'. He reported back to say that 'BT' was 'out cold' on one of the seats at the back and he could not get him to register that he was needed! At this point we were committed to carry on towards Gatow as we were in the air corridor in the Russian Zone, so I decided that I would make up some story to over fly Gatow and hope that by the time we had got back to Wuntsdorf 'BT' might have surfaced. In the event, just as we approached the Beacon to start letting down to land, 'BT' pushed up to the front and demanded to know why I was in the pilot's seat. We swapped over and I pointed out that he had not put 'George' in when he went down the back. His reaction was happily to say, "these aircraft fly themselves!!" and then carried on to make a perfect landing. I was must relieved when I was asked to take an aircraft back to Tarrant Rushton with another pilot and never had to fly with him again. I was crewed up with a better chap on our return to Germany.
At the end of April we moved to Hamburg and started flying into Tegel instead of Gatow. In June I was allocated yet another pilot who was very young and inexperienced and I was not over happy with him either. When we were withdrawn from the airlift in mid-July, I had completed 89 flights back and forth to Berlin and also carried out a number of ferrying flights to Tarrant Rushton. (See Lecture Notes and 50th Anniversary Celebrations 1999)
[photograph]
With Col. Gail S. Halvorsen – "The chocolate pilot"
Berlin Airlift 50th Anniversary, Berlin 1999
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Two books fully detail the Berlin airlift and the part played by the civil participants (they have been suitably annotated). The one by Robert Rodrigo is the better of the two.
The end of the airlift deposited hundreds of aircrew (many of whom had only just come back into flying for the good money) on to the job market and I was unable to find another flying post. Thus ended my civil flying career.
After flying for so long, finding an ordinary job where my abilities would be of some use and would be recognized by prospective employers, was very difficult. One day I saw a friend from schooldays called Peter Filldew whom I had met at Mildenhall during the war, where he was the orderly-room clerk. He suggested he might be able to get me a job with his firm of Estate Agents (Fielder & Partners) in South Croydon. He obviously gave me a glowing recommendation as my interview was quite short, and I was offered a job as a Negotiator with a very low salary but very good commission on completion of any property that I obtained for their books or was instrumental in selling. The work was very hard and I had to spend long and unsociable hours including Saturdays & Sundays but I managed reasonably well once I gained the necessary confidence.
Soon afterwards we moved house to 248 Croydon Road and this stretched our resources to almost breaking point. The car, BAU 62, which I had bought during the war, had to go and I only managed to get £5 for it and it almost broke my heart to see it being driven away. The bungalow cost something like £1,200 and I got somewhat into debt to raise even the 10% and buying fees. Everything was based on my getting the commission on sales that I thought I should be able to earn. 1949 ended with me still working for Fielder.
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1950
One day at Fielder's, I overheard the receptionist speaking on the phone to someone called Macfarlane and casually asked what were his initials. On being told that they were N.G., I asked to speak to him and asked if he recognised my voice which, after a short pause, he did and we immediately arranged to meet. This caused uproar from the sales manager called Chillcot, who insisted that Mac was already one of [italics] his [/italics] clients and I was not to be allowed to deal with him. All my explanations fell on deaf ears and I had to phone from home to explain this to Mac. He agreed to phone up and cancel the appointment we had made and say that he was not interested anymore. We arranged to meet one lunchtime and go home to our bungalow. I then told the Sales Manager that through his stupidity we had lost a good client and this started an antagonism between us.
The meeting with Mac was quite an event and he suggested that I should re-apply to come back into the RAF and he would back my application if he could. He was still a Wing Commander but holding a post at the Air Ministry and he thought he should be able to pull a few strings.
As a result of this meeting I decided to apply and, after a long wait, was called for interview by a panel, who seemed to feel that wartime service was not a good recommendation for a peacetime commission and they did not even listen to what I had done subsequently. After a further long wait I received a letter addressed to Flight Lieutenat [sic] D. Moore informing me that they were unable to offer me a commission but they would be prepared to let me return as 'NAV 2' (which was the same as Sgt.) As much as I would have dearly loved to have got back into the Service, my pride would not let me accept such a reduction in rank and I therefore wrote back straight away telling them what I thought of their offer.
Working for Chilcott became very difficult and it was obvious that things would come to a head soon. Just when I was expecting to start collecting my first big commissions I was told that I was no good at the job and 'fired'. They would only pay me up until the last day at the basic rate, and no commission money. I appealed to Fielder but he was obviously being influenced by his sales manager and would not help me.
On the job market again, I could only get menial jobs, first as a temp in what then equated to the DHSS issuing new National Insurance Cards and then a more permanent job in the Gas Company working in their costing department. My job was to cost out all the job sheets for the week from the job rates for the various jobs and individuals. This job was running weeks behind when I joined and it did not take long before I was able to catch up and sit waiting for the current week's work dockets to arrive. When the head of my section saw this he 'warned me off' and checked every item of my work so that we looked as though we were still working weeks behind time again. This got very frustrating and I started to look around for another job.
Through the good offices of the Officers' Association I was passed a number of job openings and eventually was interviewed by a firm of grocery distributors called Harvey Bradfield & Toyer. They wanted a salesman to help introduce a Milton's product called Deosan to cafés & restaurants as a means of getting to be their suppliers for groceries as well. I was given the whole of South London to canvas and had to do it all by 'cold selling' and without the use of any transport of my own. Fortunately I made my number with the Public Health Office and frequently got called by them to visit establishments that they had found to be 'unhealthy' and I was able to introduce 'The Deosan method of food hygiene' to them quite easily. I found that the standard of cleanliness in most places I visited to be almost non-existent and the large 'posh' Hotels were the worst. I found this job quite interesting but although I did not feel I was doing a very good job of it, the firm seemed quite happy with my work.
1950 ended with me still trudging around south London and hardly making enough money to live on. Christine had been born on May 28th and this did not make things any easier.
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1951
At the beginning of the year I was still working for H.B.T. and being called-on to visit various places in the South London Area. I asked for a special visit to the Head Office to discuss my work with my boss, who still seemed quite happy with what I was doing but made no effort to increase my wages. I do not remember exactly what I actually earned each week but it was round about £50 per month.
During the last week in March I was in Croydon on a visit and decided to call again on my friend in the Recruiting Office, and here I was asked if I had thought about applying to rejoin the RAF. When I explained about having applied once already and had only been offered 'Master Aircrew' which I had turned down, the Senior Recruiting Officer asked if I would mind if he phoned Air Ministry to find out what the latest situation was. I was quite happy for him to do this and did not expect anything to come of it. It was quite a surprise when he phoned me the next day to say that if I were to apply again I would be given every consideration, so I got him to help me fill in the necessary forms which he duly sent in. It was only a few days later that I was called for interview at the Air Ministry and I went with a totally different attitude to the previous time. When asked the first question which inevitably was 'Why do you want to rejoin the RAF' I decided to take the offensive and replied 'I am not sure if I do – I want you to convince me that I should'. From this point on I could do no wrong.
A greater part of the interview came from a Group Captain on the panel who kept asking me questions about the Argentine and seemed genuinely interested in the answers that I gave. The panel were all smiling when I left and the 'Groupie' asked me to wait for him outside. He then told me that I would be hearing within the next few days – at which I laughingly said that the last time I had heard that remark it had taken over 6 weeks for them to contact me. He assured me that he literally meant 'the next few days' and then asked me if I would wait for him and walk down to the Tube with him. This I did and he told me that he was due to be posted as the next Air Attaché in Buenos Aires hence his interest in my comments.
Two days later I was called for an Aircrew Medical and, having passed this easily enough, was offered a new commission in the RAF as a Flying Officer to start at Air Ministry on April 16th (this was barely 3 weeks since I visited the Recruiting Office in Croydon). Needless to say I accepted and duly reported for duty on the day required and then spent a month getting kitted out and doing some odd jobs for a Wing Commander in one of the departments there. Along with 13 other people reported to Central Navigation School at Shawbury on 23rd May for a Navigation Instructors Course. I teamed up with Jimmy Cuthill (with whom I shared a room) and Bob Hunter (who was a Canadian serving in the RAF).
[photograph]
Navigation Instructors Course, Shawbury 1951
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On 17th June I went with most of the others to Sick Quarters to have our inoculations brought up to date and as soon as I had had mine I began to feel odd. We all trouped back to the classroom and settled down to a lecture on 'how not to lecture' and I could feel myself 'blowing up like a balloon' and my heart racing like mad. I bemoaned the fact that I had never had a reaction to 'jabs' before and I really did feel rough. The Instructor eventually noticed that there was something wrong and told me to go back to the Mess and lie down. I remember 'floating' back and one of two gardeners asking me for the time and me just laughing back at them because I could not see the time on my watch. The next thing I knew was someone asking me how I felt and me just laughing like a mad thing again, and then later somebody standing over me and saying "I am just going to inject some adrenalin into you – you will find yourself shaking but try not to fight it – just let yourself go". I was then carried out to an ambulance and taken to the Station hospital. It seemed like hours before the shaking stopped but eventually it did and I felt very much better – in fact even asked for something to eat as I was hungry! Needless to say, I did not get a meal but was allowed a drink. After a while the M.O. (doctor) came to see me and explained what had happened. I had suffered an 'angino-neurotic' type of reaction to the inoculation and this was extremely rare and quite often fatal unless caught in time. It seems that when the lesson finished everyone wandered back to the Mess for lunch and, since it was a little late, everyone went straight in to eat except Jimmy Cuthill, who decided he ought to check up to see how I was. He found me unconscious on the bed and immediately called for the M.O. but could not find him. Fortunately he looked in the dining room and when he saw him eating his lunch insisted that he came up to our room immediately. The M.O. told me that if I had been left much longer I could very well have died. The humorous part of the story was that, after a good night's sleep and a hearty breakfast in bed, I felt completely fit and was allowed to rejoin the others in class. They were all sitting moaning about sore arms and feeling rotten and I was 'feeling no pain' and was able to 'lord' it over them for the rest of the day!
Flying started on my Birthday on Mark XI Wellingtons! and the course finished with an overseas flight using special navigation techniques (Grid Navigation). I was then posted to No. 1 Air Navigation School at Thorney Island and I reported there on 13th August. This was a prime posting and I was very pleased to get such a good one. However, it soon became obvious that something was not quite right. When I applied for married quarters I was told that I would not be considered "just yet" and no explanation was given when I queried this. When I tried to find out which courses I would be looking after I was allocated as course tutor and then, a little later, told that I was to be held in reserve pending the arrival of another course tutor. I then learnt that this new chap was Les Dibb who had been in the same Group at Shawbury and had hoped to be posted to Thorney but had eventually been posted to Lindholme. It then became fairly obvious that some 'string pulling' had been going on by someone at Thorney.
For the Open Day at Thorney I had arranged for Pam to bring Terry down for the day to look around and see the show. Nobody was more disappointed than me to have to tell her when she arrived that we were not going to be staying, since I had just been informed that my posting to Thorney was cancelled and that I was to report to No. 5 Air Navigation School at Lindholme on 19th September. Terry enjoyed the show until two aircraft flew over and dropped bags of flour (to represent bombs) and fake bangs designed to simulate the explosions & the crashes from the 'Anti Aircraft guns' frightened the life out of him. He yelled his head off and did not want to see anything else and all he wanted to do was to go home.
Just before leaving Thorney I met Ernie Ormerod (signaller) from back in 1946 as well as another signaller that I knew called 'Chuck' Radcliffe who was also on 52 Sqn. I really did not have enough time to do more than say hello before I was on my way.
I duly reported to Lindholme somewhat bitter about the whole thing but was immediately made Course Tutor under Flight Lieutenant 'Mick' Munday on No. 2 Long Navigation Refresher Course. This comprised 6 Officers and 1 NCO who had either been off flying for some long time or who had just come back into the Service. One of them, Flt.Lt. Willis, had been on the same course as me at ITW in Newquay. At the time he was re-mustering from Corporal SP
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(RAF Police) and we had given him a hard time during 'rough and tumble' games on the Beach. He subsequently became the Navigator with Prince Charles when he was learning to fly. They were a good crowd and I got on well with all of them. Our Classroom was a concrete hut, which had been used by the Poles as a church during the war and all the walls had been panelled with carved wood and decorated with religious artefacts. I could not get into quarters so I started looking around for somewhere to live (without much success), so I had travel up and down to Beddington whenever I could manage a weekend off. Without a car it was very difficult but I did manage to get lifts from time to time.
[photograph]
[underlined] No.2 L.N.R. COURSE. [underlined]
BACK ROW:- F/LT. CARR, F/O. GREEN, SGT. JONES, F/O. SWINFIELD.
FRONT ROW:- F/LT. WILLIS, F/O. D. MOORE, F/LT. H. MUNDAY, F/LT. HINGE, F/LT. ROWLAND.
NEGATIVE No LIND 290G 9 UN52/UNCLASSIFIED
When the Long Nav. refresher course finished we started to run navigation courses for National Service people. We found this to be very frustrating as most of those on the course were not the slightest bit interested in what they were doing and they had only chosen to become 'Navigators' as an easy way to spend their time instead of becoming 'PBI' (soldiers!) It was further made much worse when we were informed from a higher source that none of them were to be 'failed' (some political reason no doubt). One of them (a Pilot Officer Simpson) was so bad and such a bad influence on the others that we fought tooth and nail to get him 'scrubbed' but all we did was to made [sic] trouble for ourselves for 'making waves'. I shall always remember his face when he eventually 'passed out' as a navigator and was promoted to Flying Officer. He boasted openly that he was cleverer than us because he had 'beaten the system'. At the time I could only hope that he never had to put a flying crew at risk, as he would surely kill them all and himself as well. I often wonder what happened to him.
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1952
In the New Year we decided to sell the Bungalow and find somewhere up near Lindholme whenever we could. I negotiated with a Sergeant Paine who wanted to sell his car, and he agreed to accept a deposit and the balance as soon as we had sold the house. I did make it clear that I could not possibly pay him until the money came through from the solicitors and we had not even found a buyer for the Bungalow. At the time he seemed quite happy to agree to this but later had doubts and then started to cause me hassle. The car was a Hillman Minx Reg. No. FA7136, which served us well until about 1956.
In the meantime I found a house that the RAF were prepared to take on as a 'hiring' in Crabtree Drive at Five Lane Ends, Skellow, Just off the A1, about 7 miles North of Doncaster and I was able to start setting up a home there. Nowadays the Motorway around Doncaster rejoins the A1 just there and you can just see the road from the Service station at the junction.
The Bungalow sold quite quickly and we got £2,850 for it, having paid about £950 when we bought it. It took a while for all the loose ends to be tied up but eventually I got the money, paid off Sgt. Paine and moved the family up to the new place. Pam was sadly disappointed with it but the people were all very friendly and she began to like it after a while. We had a number of excursions from there and went to the sea at Hornsea on two or three occasions.
Having done well with No. 2 LNR Course I applied for a permanent commission but the Group Captain (Laine – I think) told me that I did not have the right kind of experience to suit me for a permanent career and turned me down. The Chief Navigation Instructor was Wing Commander Hickey (nicknamed 'Bone dome'), who also did not think much of me either. I rather think it had something to do with my leaving Thorney Island under odd circumstances.
After only a year and just getting settled into the house, I was surprised to find myself posted yet again. This time it seemed like a real improvement but very much a 'desk' job as one of the Navigation Examiners at the Command Examination Board, Flying Training Command at Shinfield Park just outside Reading. Our offices were in old huts a little removed from the main building and here began one of the more interesting posts of my career. We managed to find a bungalow to rent from a Mrs Samways at 36 Wood Way, Woodley and we were able to move from Doncaster quite quickly.
Having settled in, I was allocated the exams for the navigator's finals that I would be responsible for. These were: astro-navigation, maps & charts and magnetism & compasses. I also had to set the general navigation paper for pilots. I did not have much time to think before having to do a full set of exams and, only by Christmas, start to really appreciate the scope of the job.
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1953
To start off with, I had discovered that the questions on the subjects that I was to specialise in had previously been picked out by the examiner from a 'bank' of questions based on what had been set previously. After thinking about it for a while and based on my own experience decided that it was possible for the Instructors at the various Training Schools to work out a permutation which would more or less guarantee to predict over 60% of the questions.
All the exam papers were vetted by the newly appointed Chief Examiner (Gordon Arkley) and I did not have much difficulty in convincing him that we should be a bit more professional and he agreed that I could start-off by changing the system in one subject to be going on with. I started with astro navigation and set what I considered to be a very practical paper instead of the usual theory one. I sat back and waited and on the day of the exams the phone stated [sic] to ring and complaints came in thick and fast – 'Unfair', 'Not what we have been used to'; 'We were not able to prepare the students!' etc., etc. As a result, I was asked to attend a high power meeting of all the Chief Navigation Instructors and the senior people on the Examinations Board. In the meantime, I received all the papers for marking and the results showed that one school did very well but all the others failed miserably. When I was grilled at the meeting I was very pleased to have the backing of my own boss. When all of them were presented with the evidence that, apart from the one school, the others had not covered the syllabus properly and 'only taught what was necessary to get the students through the exam', there were a number of red faces and I was not very popular with them. However, the Chief of the Examination Board asked the schools to go back and put their houses in order and told them that from here on in, [underlined] [italics] all [/italics] [/underlined] examinations would be based on the new method and not on the 'Question Bank' method'. He then congratulated me on setting a fair and very practical paper, which should have been welcomed instead of being complained about. So began a new regime and after a while everyone agreed that things were much better than they used to be. We also move into better offices.
Gordon Arkley dabbled in amateur dramatics and had contacts with the film studios at Pinewood. One day he took me across there for lunch and introduced me to Glynis Johns and Robert Newton as well as a couple of other famous film stars whose names escape me. After a very 'boozy' lunch, we went across to the film-set and watched for a couple of hours. I cannot recall which film it was but it became one of the big hits of the 1950's. It was a most interesting experience.
During the year, I managed to get in a few hours flying from White Waltham airfield, mostly in Ansons, to visit other Flying Training Command units (to the Isle of Man and also to Northern Ireland). I also flew in a Procter, a Prentice and a Chipmunk.
It was just before Christmas, when I was sitting at my office desk, busy painting the air traffic control vehicle with black and white squares for the model airfield that I was making for Terry's Xmas present, when the Air Officer Commanding (Sir Arthur Pendred) chose to make his inspection (without notice) of the Examination Board's offices. I really thought I was in for big trouble for doing private work in duty time. When asked what I was doing, I decided to say precisely what, and why I was doing it! He did not blink an eyelid, had a good look at the model and then, as he turned for the door, wished me a happy Christmas and hoped that I managed to get it all finished in time!! Needless to say I put it all away quickly and tried to get on with some 'proper work'. I still expected that there would be repercussions but there never were. Some 5 year later (16/7/58), I was stationed at Pershore and I was flying with Group Captain Innes-Crump to a meeting at West Malling. When we entered the Bar in the Mess to get a drink before lunch, there was a large group in the corner surrounding a very senior officer – It was Sir Arthur! I was never more surprised in my life when he broke off talking to the others and called across to me to come and join his party. He greeted me as though I was a long lost friend and, remembering my name, ordered drinks for me and the Group Captain before asking me, with a smile on his face, if I ever managed to get [italics] that [/italics] Xmas present finished in time!! A marvellous man.
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1954
Started building model aircraft again and flew them in the fields at the back of the bungalow. After losing a glider, I made a Hawker Hunter powered by a 'jet' engine (in fact it was a pellet that had to be lit!) and Terry became quite upset when it got lodged up a tree. He started school in Woodley and has been back there recently to retrace his steps.
Bob Hunter, a Canadian who had been on the same course as me at Shawbury, was also based at Reading and he was always popping round to our place. He and his wife Marg are pictured, in the photo album, with us at the New Years Eve Party.
Having sat and worried about what happened last Xmas, was quite surprised to be offered, in February, a job on the Air Staff as Command Search & Rescue Officer & also to look after the Command Film Library. Apparently there was considerable opposition from some of the others working there (mostly Wing Commanders and above) as normally only 'Permanent Commission' officers were offered this sort of post. However my new boss, Wing Commander Bagott, made it quite clear that someone 'on high' had approved my appointment and immediately suggested that I apply for a permanent commission (my original commission was 'Short Service' – i.e.: 8 years). When I pointed out that I had already applied and been turned down and was reluctant to go through it all again, he offered to have the necessary forms filled in and all I needed do was sign them! By the end of the day this was done, and two days later I was called away from my office to attend an Assessment Board. I was totally unprepared for this but was assured that I did not need to go and get 'dressed up' and 'not to worry'! The interview took about 2 minutes and was a complete farce – we just passed pleasantries! Within a few minutes I was told that, of the 13 candidates having been seen, I was the only one to be recommended. After a few days I was called for another interview with an AVM Allison who carried out a proper 'grilling' but he was very pleasant about it and made it quite plain that it was just a formality.
Shortly afterwards I was offered a brand new Married Quarter and we then moved into 15 Salmond Road, Whitley Wood – right opposite the Baggots! The appointment to a Permanent Commission was not confirmed until 25th August and backdated to 1st June 1954. (I had already been informed verbally quite early on).
[certificate]
In my new job I did a fair bit of visiting and on one occasion, whilst flying with Group Captain Alvey stopping off a [sic] various Units, I had a further brief meeting with Mac (my 'skipper' on Bomber Command). Due to my interest in model making I also got involved in the RAF Model Aircraft competitions and was 'asked' to act as a Judge on a couple of them (see pictures in album).
Here I was introduced to my first flight in a jet aircraft – the Canberra. I have to say that I did not particularly enjoy it (I got air-sick).
My work was very absorbing and most of the dissenters soon began to accept me. I enjoyed mixing with quite senior officers and only found it difficult to get on with some of the 'upward pushing' more junior people. We became very friendly with our next-door neighbours – The Lacey's and we all got on very well together. Christine had started school here and most of the children from 'The Patch' went there as well.
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1955
Having got nicely settled down in our Married Quarter I was somewhat disappointed to receive a Posting Notice in early January. However, I was told that it was supposed to be a prestige posting and about two weeks later I left Reading in a heavy snow blizzard on my way to the Royal Radar Establishment Flying Unit at RAF DEFFORD, near Worcester.
The Mess was deserted when I arrived in the gloom of a Sunday evening, with the snow still pelting down. Later, one or two others came in for a drink and were so friendly that I began to feel a little less dejected than I had been during the journey there. So began almost 5 years of a marvellous posting.
Initially, I lived in the Mess and immediately started flying in various aircraft, on trials of equipment designed by the 'boffins' at the Royal Radar Establishment at Malvern. My first flight was in Hastings TG503 piloted by 'Bert' Welvaert, aged 36, who claimed to be 'the youngest grandfather in the Air Force'. I next met up with Bert at the Berlin Airlift 50th Anniversary in May 1999
[photograph]
Bert Welvaert and myself standing if [sic] front of Hastings TG503’.
This aircraft is now on permanent display at the Allied Museum in Berlin.
I flew in the following types (in no particular order) during my stay on the unit (over 1000 hours all told):
Hastings
Lincoln
Shackleton
Dakota
Varsity
Ashton
Wayfarer
Marathon
Hermes
Devon
Valetta
Meteor
Canberra
Vampire
Whirlwind (Helicopter)
Fairly early on, I quite often flew with a pilot called Flt. Lt. Chase in a Hastings and around March time was scheduled to fly with him again on a trip to Farnborough. One of the other navigators, a Canadian (whose name I cannot remember), asked me to swap with him as he needed only a couple more hours to make up his first '1,000 hrs' before he left the unit to return to Canada. I agreed to do so just to do him a favour, but in the event I did myself a very special one as the aircraft crashed on take off from Farnborough, killing the navigator and severely injuring the flight engineer. The pilot and signaller were less severely injured and the two passengers in the back escaped with only minor injuries. When the news was first
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received, many of us were briefed to quickly break the news to the various wives and families. I was allocated the flight engineer's wife, wishing like mad that I had been able to go to the signaller's instead. However, as it turned out I was lucky again, as the signaller, whose wife had been told that he was "OK and not too badly hurt", had a relapse the following day and died from 'secondary shock'. On the other hand, John Mills the flight engineer, who had not been expected to live, remained in a coma for nearly a month and suddenly woke up one morning demanding to be fed as he was [italics] starving [/italics]! Although he finished up with a plate in his head, he actually returned to flying about six months later. The pilot recovered enough to return to flying but was posted away quite quickly when it was established that he had attempted to take off with the flying control locks still in place (i.e. [underlined] Pilot Error [/underlined])!
It is worth pointing out however, that the Hastings had mechanical locks of a new type instead of the old wooden blocks that fitted on the outside and had to be removed before getting into the aircraft. With the new method there was a lever in the cockpit that had to be actuated to release the locks. If the lever was operated whilst the aircraft had airflow over the wings etc., it did not release the locks as it was designed to do. As a result of this accident a modification was introduced to rectify the fault.
The funeral of the navigator took place in the local church in Pershore and I was a Pall Bearer for the funeral of the signaller in Scarborough. Once these funerals were out of the way, life gradually got back to normal.
After a short while I managed to find a 'hiring' – a large detached house in a very nice spot – 'Severn Croft', Bevere, in Worcester – and moved the family away from Reading. We have lots of expensive furniture, curtains etc., which has to be put away in store for safety. Started to make friends with the 'Lentons & Skeers' for Terry & Christine.
Peter was born in December and a new house is started in the field next to us. I did not fly at all this month and managed a fair bit of time off.
Pictures of us at the Summer Ball are in the photo-album.
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1956
The new Flight Commander (the unit split into two flights – 'A' Flight for piston engined & 'B' for jet aircraft), Sqn Ldr Tebbutt, shared an interest in model making and he started building a model boat whilst I stick to aircraft. I made a Tiger Moth, which flew well, and we used the airfield at weekends. Other aircraft that I made seemed to crash too easily and the Radar servicing Manager suggested that I use radio control. He offered to help me build it but I decided to put it into a model boat rather than aircraft as this was much safer.
Early in the year I got myself elected Mess Secretary, which slowed down the flying somewhat – sometimes to only 10-12 hours each month.
Being Mess Secretary became an almost full time job and, mixed in with developing a new radio control system to put into the destroyer that I built, my time was fully occupied and very rewarding. Two major Mess functions during the year and, as this was such a small Unit, I found myself suggesting, designing and constructing all the decorations for both of them. Fortunately the civilian component of the Unit made sure that I was able to get marvellous procurement & engineering assistance.
Peter was 1 year old just before the Christmas Ball and lots of locals attended his party.
1957
Started flying helicopters and was allowed to take the controls on odd occasions, eventually having some 'formal' instruction. I was told that fixed wing pilots are somewhat difficult to convert whereas other aircrew categories with good 'air sense' usually learn quite quickly. After about 10 hours dual I became reasonably competent and passed the 'brick wall' of it being in charge of you, to you being in charge of it!!
[photograph]
RRFU Defford, 1957
Group Captain Innes-Crump took me under his wing and nominated me as his navigator. We did various trips to conferences etc. and eventually he let me do most of the flying and some take-offs & landings (in a Devon). Many of the pilots started to let me fly the aircraft from the right-hand seat and eventually I even landed a Hastings all on my own (or at least I thought I did).
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[page break]
[photograph]
Lincoln at zero feet!
Flying with Group Captain Innes-Crump (OC, RRFU Pershore)
At end of October the Unit moved from Defford to Pershore and took on a somewhat more formal atmosphere, which was not to everyone's liking.
10th December 1957, Peter's 2nd birthday and disaster on the Unit. One of 'B' Flight jet aircraft went missing and presumed crashed in the hills over North Wales. I had to visit the wife of one of crew members to warn her that her husband 'would be late home'. A dreadful story to delay the almost inevitable. As a result I was also 'late home' for the Birthday Party and could not say why – I was not very popular!!
Next day, along with others, flew a 4-hour sortie to see if we could find the crash site. Although flying very low ourselves amongst the treacherous hills, we could not find anything. Just before we were due to leave the area, we received a message that Mountain Rescue team had found the site and both crew had been killed. It was some way from where we had been looking near 'Drum Hill'. Another funeral to attend, and just before Christmas too. However see picture in album of us at Xmas Ball a few days later!
1958
Lots of flying each month this year mostly in:
Hastings
Varsity
Devon
Valetta
July – see item, 5th paragraph of 1953 re. Sir Arthur Pendred. Also see article & photos in 'Air Clues'.
The atmosphere at Pershore was not the same as at Defford. However, we all became very settled in at Bevere and friendly with neighbours – Lentons around corner, the Hucksters at the back and the next-door families on both sides. – A very pleasant year.
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1959
At beginning of year got in regular flying each month. Flew in a Meteor for the first time with Wing Commander Lawrence as pilot. Also did some more helicopter piloting but had become quite stale after so long.
April was particularly busy, flying, but after the first few days in June got caught for admin work.
On 10th July I was handed a signal informing me along with others (but not Flt. Lt. Smith mentioned in signal – see photo-album), that passage was booked on the FLANDRE, sailing 17th July, to attend a training course on the 'Thor Missile' in the USA. Mad panic to get ready and needed to get a Dinner Jacket for the voyage and other items at a time when I was particularly low on funds. Pam was not very happy with the idea of me being away for so long and having to look after everything on her own. Fortunately the neighbours at Bevere were all very supportive.
Travelled First Class by train from Worcester via London where we were joined by another group of RAF but who considered themselves very superior and tried to keep apart from us as much as they could. The Flandre was a French passenger liner of some 15,000 tons and the First Class passengers (mostly American – and us of course!) were extremely well looked after. After a very enlightening voyage and a charter flight to TUCSON Arizona, we started our training on Thor missiles at Davis Monathon AFB. Our group consisted of: self; Flt. Lt. Colin Reeve; Flt.Lt. Walker; Flt. Lt. Evans & Flg. Off. Nancarrow, together with Americans: Captains Jim Hadsell; Mel Schaffer & Carl Heintz. After an intensive 'ground' training period there, we travelled by car with Jimmy Hadsell via the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam to Vandenberg AFB California.
[photograph]
Davis Monathon AFB, Tucson Arizona
Standing (in uniform), L-R: Flight Lieutenants John Evans, Jeff Walker, Colin Reeve, Myself
Below: USAF Captains Jim Hadsell and Mell Schaffer, Flying Officer Frank Nancarrow,, Captain Carl Heintz
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When the training had finished, another charter flight back to New York and thence on the SS America back to Southampton, where I was met by the family, who had been driven there by Mr Lenton.
Posted to No. 82 Squadron SHEPHERDS GROVE as Launch Control Officer in December.
[photograph]
RAF Thor Launch, July 1959
Vandenberg AFB, California
1960
Found a bungalow in Diss – about 10 miles from Shepherds Grove – to take on as a 'Hiring'. We moved from 'Severn Croft' on a very bleak and foggy day. It was very nostalgic as we had started to 'put down roots' in Worcester and very difficult as far as Schools were concerned. The journey was very hazardous as the car was loaded down with all the last minute items – Including the animals. At one point near Diss we finished up in a field because the fog was so thick – but eventually got to Diss about 4 hours later than planned.
I had not been in the Bungalow for long and was at home one lunchtime, when a Victor en-route for Honington, passed overhead quite low making a horrible roaring noise. We all rushed outside to see the aircraft on fire and will the crew to eject (we did not know at this time that only the pilots had ejection seats). Eventually, parachutes were seen to open but the aircraft dived into the ground about 2 miles away. As I was in uniform, I decide to drive towards the crash sight [sic] to see if I could help – but before I could get within a mile of it I was held up by masses of sightseers crowding the narrow lanes. In the end I gave up and returned home. It transpired that 2 of the crew had been killed – one of them opening his 'chute too late and the other (one of the pilots) getting out too late.
Spent the whole of the year on shift covering 365 days a year and having responsibility for 3 Thor nuclear missiles every time I was on shift.
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1961
Was selected to join the Feltwell Thor Missile Training Flight after categorisation by Bomber Command. [italics] Second US trip, this time to Vandenberg AFB, California for THOR test firing] [/italics]
[photograph]
82 Squadron crew. With RAF THOR Missile, Vandenberg AFB
1962
[inserted] Fl/L Moore [/inserted]
Headquarters Bomber Command,
Royal Air Force,
High Wycombe,
Bucks.
[underlined] Order of the Day [/underlined]
[underlined] To all Thor Squadrons and Stations [/underlined]
The decision to phase out the Thor Force of Bomber Command in no way detracts from the vital role which the force played in the past, and the significant part it will continue to play in future, until the very last missile is withdrawn.
Thor was the first strategic missile system operational in the West. At a time when the threat to this country came almost entirely from manned aircraft, you were the most formidable part of the defence of the United Kingdom, and the Western Alliance.
You in the Thor force have maintained a constant vigil day and night for almost four years. You have maintained a higher state of readiness in peacetime than has ever been achieved before in the history of the Armed Forces of the Crown. I am well aware of the sacrifices, so willingly accepted, that this constant readiness has imposed on the officers and airmen of the force.
I am content that History will recognise your devoted service in the cause of peace. I know that I can rely on you for the same devotion during the rundown phase, as you have shown since the birth of the force in 1958.
[signature]
(K. B.E. CROSS)
Air Marshal.
Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief.
Bomber Command
2nd August, 1962.
Announcing the rundown of Britain's THOR missile defence programme
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1963
A very severe winter and had great difficulty travelling back and forth. On the way to Shepherds Grove, while driving along a cutting through a snowdrift, a car coming the other way crashed into me. Although my car was damaged, after temporary repairs I managed to drive it back to Diss and put it in to garage for proper repair. In the meantime, I used the Vespa scooter to get to the Units to do my categorisations. Strange, but everyone seemed to know I was coming, so the grapevine seemed to be working overtime.
All the pipes froze up at 102 Victoria Road, including the underground ones from the mains. Had to get water from our next-door neighbours, who remained unaffected. The Council eventually cleared the mains by passing an electric current in some way.
In July I was informed that [underlined] [italics] my services were no longer required by the RAF [/italics] [/underlined] and that I was to have a 'Last Tour Posting' somewhere nearby. I was shattered by this news as I had very high ratings in my job and good yearly assessments. I appealed to the Group Captain who was as much astounded as I was, particularly as other officers were being kept on whom he would 'court martial' given half a chance. Eventually he informed me that somewhere, someone with 'influence' didn't like me, and I must have upset whoever it was. So no reprieve!
Middle of July, I was posted to 721 Mobile Signals Unit based at Methwold as Commanding Officer – very strange! I was met with the results of a drunken brawl amongst members of the Unit under the previous CO and it took all of my energy and some very smooth talking to get it sorted out. Managed to restore unit pride with only two people being posted away and reprimands for a couple of others. It turned into a happy posting once I got everyone on my side. Managed to get damage fixed without any further problems.
The unit acted as a bomb plot for the "V" Force and had the call sign 'BRANTUB'. Unfortunately in October the unit was ordered to move to Lindholme. So much for it being a 'Last Tour Posting' [underlined] [italics] near [/italics] [/underlined] present residence.
1964
The Lindholme posting was not as bad as expected. Fell ill with flu just as move took place and when I finally drove up there from Diss I found the Unit on an isolated site, well away from the rest of the Station (see photos in 'Nostalgia' album). Everything was in good order and working well, all thanks to the good spirit now on the unit and a Warrant Officer who worked wonders to get it going. I now had an assistant, Pilot Officer Frank Moss, who was a navigator on Vulcans. Since we were acting as a "Bomb Plot" for the "V" Force, I think the idea was for him to persuade me to give good scores despite some of the dismal results they had been getting previously!
Made a number of suggestions for improving our lot on the Station and moral was very high. Managed to get us out of AOC's inspection and this also went down well. On the operational side I was able to invent a means of our not having to listen to the sound put out to simulate "Blue Steel" bombing. This was achieved by converting the sound signal into a visual meter display so that we could watch rather than having to listen for 10 minutes each run. Everyone at Bomber Command were surprised that nobody had thought of this before.
After we had settled in and were given a good result from the Bomber Command Inspection Team, I managed to arrange our shifts so that I could get away for longer periods. Finally, at the end of October, I was given a firm retirement date. I was given a very emotional farewell from the Unit and, although the practice was frowned upon in higher circles, I was given an inscribed watch as a going away present from all the members of the Unit (some 26 people excluding myself).
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From Lindholme I was finally posted to Honington to begin formalities to leave the Air Force. I only spent a few days there, handing in Kit and obtaining all the necessary clearances. On 19th November I drove away from Honington having finally 'retired'. I shall always remember it being rather like a dream but I do recall listening on the car radio to a program featuring Pam's cousin, Christopher Gable, who was leaving the Royal Ballet to take up an acting career (Christopher's last performance with the Royal Ballet was in 1965. He died in 1998).
The break was so great that I was hardly able to make any plans for the future.
Right: The final farewell
[Ministry of Defence Crest]
MINISTRY OF DEFENCE
MAIN BUILDING, WHITEHALL, LONDON, S.W.1.
TELEPHONE WHITEHALL [indecipherable number]
29th October 1964
Dear Flt. Lt. Moore
The Secretary of State for Defence has it in command from Her Majesty The Queen to convey to you on leaving the Active List of the Royal Air Force her thanks for your long and valuable services.
May I take this opportunity of wishing you all good fortune in the future.
[signature]
Flight Lieutenant D. Moore
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1965
I managed to get a job with Marconi at Southend working with the modifications team and liaison with the RAF! It was very poorly paid but it was the best I could do under the circumstances.
We decided to move away from Diss and chose Chelmsford as the best place to settle down. It was the nearest into London that I wanted to go and the furthest out that Pam wanted to be. We started looking around and were particularly interested in some new houses being built on a development on the edge of town on Springfield road. They were more than I could really afford and the one we liked was suddenly sold to someone else. We needed to move quite quickly and when we saw a chalet bungalow, which Pam seemed to like, we decided to set the wheels in motion to buy it. No sooner had we paid a deposit than one of the new ones came back on the market, even before the walls had been built, so we decided to buy that one instead. I managed to commute half of my £500 a year RAF pension and the £250 translated into a cash sum of nearly £6,000, which only left a small mortgage requirement. The purchase proceeded reasonably smoothly and we finally moved into 2 Llewellyn Close on 9th April 1965. Moving into a newly built house was not such a good idea and all sorts of snags were encountered.
Only earning a pittance and very unhappy with what was expected of me, I started to look around again for another job.
1966
Got a job as Training Officer with Littlewoods operating out of Basildon, visiting all their stores in the south of England. Found it very difficult as all the lady supervisors were very suspicious of me and not at all co-operative. Was suddenly called up to Liverpool and made redundant with no reason given.
1967
Spent the whole year job hunting and at last got a job with John Zinc just outside St. Albans.
1968
21/10/68 – 13/12/68. Completed a Training Officer course (construction Industry) in Slough.
Finally got a reasonable job with Balfour Beatty in Bread St. London but had to leave after they moved to Croydon.
1970
At last I got a decent job! Started with Powell Duffryn, Great Tower St. London on 19th January but made redundant when they de-centralised
1971
After spending most of the year job hunting I finally started working for Letchworth and District Printers Group Training Scheme on 1st December
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[page break]
1972
After travelling the 43 miles back and forth to Letchworth every day and finding it very tiring, we decided to look around for housing in Letchworth. I made up my mind that I wanted to be as near to work as possible and not have to travel any distance at all. Unfortunately this was a period of 'gazumping' and although our offer on the nice house we found in Cloisters Road and had been accepted, suddenly they had another buyer prepared to offer more. Reluctantly we bid for our present house and once again the offer was accepted. At the time of the year it looked much better than it actually was and, to make things worse, the day after swapping contracts the house in Cloisters came back on the market. We had easily sold our Chelmsford house and had completed on that, so we could not afford to change our minds. We finally moved into 116 West View on 15th May 1972.
Having been promised help in re-location by my employers, the Committee that had originally made the offer changed and all the new lot were prepared to give me was £100. I was not very happy about this and made my feelings very plain. But they just shrugged their shoulders.
1973 – 2010 No further entries
[photograph]
Celebrating my 80th Birthday
DM Memoirs (second Edition) Compiled and edited by Terry Moore, October 2010
Appendix and additional photographs – January 2011
Postscript – May 2012
Foreword – July 2012
[italics] The editor accepts no responsibility for inaccuracies [/italics]
45
[page break]
Postscript
The funeral service for my father took place at Harewood Park Crematorium, Stevenage, on Thursday 11th November 2010, attended by family, friends, representatives from the XV Squadron Association and colleagues from the North Herts. Branch of the Aircrew Association, of which he was president.
Like most airmen of his generation, Dad had a great affection for the Avro Lancaster, in which he spent many flying hours as navigator in both war time and peace, so it seemed most fitting that his ashes be scattered from the only remaining Lancaster still flying in this country.
[photograph] [photograph]
In May 2011, my wife and I made the ninety-mile trip to RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire where the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight is stationed and left the casket in the care of the Public Relations Manager who was to make the necessary arrangements.
[photograph] [photograph]
Dad took his "last flight" on 29th August 2011 in Avro Lancaster PA474 escorted by the Spitfire and Hurricane of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight. His ashes were scattered over North Norfolk, England.
[chart]
BBMF flight schedule for 29/08/2011
Terry Moore, May 2012
46
[page break]
1945 Appendix 1 Operational Sorties – September 1944 – April 1945
[underlined] NO 218 SQUADRON RAF METHWOLD Aircraft Letters "HA" [/underlined]
[underlined] 17/09/1944 [/underlined]Sortie No: 1 (Daylight). Target [underlined] BOULOGNE [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD277 Code "A". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 2 hours 45 minutes
762 Aircraft – 370 Lancasters; 351 Halifax; 41 Mosquito. Dropped more than 3000 tons of Bombs on German positions around Boulogne in preparation for an attack by Allied troops. The German garrison surrendered soon afterwards.
1 Lancaster & 1 Halifax lost.
[underlined] 23-24/09/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 2 (Night time). Target [underlined] NEUSS [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD256 Code "J". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 hours 35 Minutes
549 Aircraft – 378 Lancasters; 154 Halifax; 17 Mosquito. Most of the bombing fell in the dock & factory area. A short local report only says that 617 houses & 14 Public Buildings were destroyed and 289 people killed/150 injured.
5 Lancasters & 2 Halifax lost.
[underlined] 26/09/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 3 (Daylight). Target [underlined] CAP GRIS NEZ [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlare [sic]
Flying Time – 2 Hours 55 Minutes
722 Aircraft – 388 Lancasters, 289 Halifax; 45 Mosquito – 531 aircraft to CAP GRIS NEZ (4 Targets) and 191 aircraft to 3 Targets in CALAIS. Accurate and intense bombing of all targets.
1 Lancaster lost
[underlined] 28/09/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 4 (Daylight). Target [underlined] CALAIS [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD277 Code "A". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 2 Hours 35 Minutes
341 Aircraft – 222 Lancasters; 84 Halifax; 35 Moquito. [sic] Target area covered in cloud but Master Bomber brought the force below cloud to bomb visually. Bombing was accurate.
1 Lancaster Lost
[underlined] 14/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 5 (Daylight). Target [underlined] DUISBURG [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 5 Minutes
This raid was part of a special operation. (See page 601 of Bomber Command Diaries)
1013 Aircraft – 519 Lancasters; 474 Halifax; 20 Mosquito with RAF fighters escorting.
3574 Tons of HE & 820 Tons of incendiary.
13 Lancasters & 1 Halifax lost.
[underlined] 15/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 6 (Night time). Target [underlined] WILHEMSHAVEN [sic] [/underlined]
Aircraft ? Code "C". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours
506 Aircraft – 257 Halifax; 241 Lancasters; 8 Mosquito.
Last of 14 Major raids on Port of Wilhemshaven [sic]. Bomber Command claimed "severe damage caused."
No record of any losses noted.
[underlined] 19/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 7 (Night time). Target [underlined] STUTTGART [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 6 Hours 30 Minutes
565 Lancasters & 18 Mosquito in 2 forces 4 hours apart.
Serious damage caused to central and eastern districts (including BOSCH factory)
6 Lancasters lost.
[underlined] 23/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No. 8 (Night time). Target [underlined] ESSEN [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 5 Hours 5 Minutes
1055 Aircraft – 561 Lancasters; 463 Halifax & 31 Mosquito. This was the heaviest raid on Essen so far in the war and the number of aircraft also the greatest number on any target. (These results achieved [underlined] without [/underlined] the Lancasters from 5 Group!! 4538 Tons of Bombs dropped.
[underlined] 29/10/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 9 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WESTKAPELLE (WALCHEREN) [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 2 Hours 15 Minutes
358 Aircraft – 194 Lancasters; 128 Halifax & 36 Mosquito.
11 different ground positions attacked. Visibility was good and results were accurate.
1 Lancaster lost.
47
[page break]
[underlined] 04/11/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 10 (Daylight). Target [underlined] SOLINGEN [/underlined]
Aircraft – NF 934 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 30 Minutes
176 Lancasters of 3 Group. The raid was not considered successful as bombing scattered.
4 Lancasters lost
Note: Aircraft NF934 Code "G" went "missing" on 12/12/1944
Squadron Leader N.G. Macfarlane promoted to Wing Commander and posted as Officer Commanding No: XV Squadron RAF Mildenhall in mid-November and sends aircraft to fetch whole crew from Methwold
[underlined] NO: XV SQUADRON RAF MILDENHALL Aircraft letters "LS" [/underlined]
[underlined] 28/11/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 11 (Night time). Target [underlined] NEUSS (DUSSELDORF) [/underlined]
Aircraft – HK 695 Code "V". Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 40 Minutes
145 Lancasters of 3 Group & 8 of 1 Group. GH Bombing attack. Modest damage.
No losses.
[underlined] 05/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 12 (Daylight). Target [underlined] SCHWAMMENAUEL DAM [/underlined]
Aircraft – ME 844 Code "C. Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 4 Hours 40 Minutes
MASTER BOMBER – 56 Lancasters of 3 Group attempt to "Blow up" this Dam on river ROER to help American Army. Target covered in cloud. Only 2 aircraft bombed. No losses.
[underlined] 06/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 13 (Night time) Target [underlined] LEUNA MERSEBURG [/underlined] (Near LEIPZIG)
Aircraft – NG 357 Code "K" Pilot – Flt. Lt. Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours 20 Minutes
475 Lancasters bombed Oil Target in Eastern Germany, 500 miles from UK. Cloud cover but considerable damage to the synthetic oil plant. 5 aircraft lost
[underlined] 08/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 14 (Daylight). Target [underlined] DUISBURG [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 357 Code "K". Pilot – Flt. Lt. Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 20 Minutes
163 Lancasters of 3 Group bombed on GH through cloud on railway yards. Good results.
No losses.
[underlined] 14/12/1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 15 (Night time). Target [underlined] MINING KATTEGAT [/underlined] (off KULLEN POINT)
Aircraft – NG 357 Code "K". Pilot – Flt. Lt. Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours (Landed LOSSIEMOUTH)
30 Lancasters & 9 Halifax. Mines accurately laid. (see H2S photo) Diverted to Lossiemouth on return. No losses.
[underlined] 28/12//1944 [/underlined] Sortie No: 16 (Daylight). Target [underlined] COLOGNE [/underlined] (GREMBERG)
Aircraft – HK 693 Code "B". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 50 Minutes
167 Lancasters of 3 Group. Marshalling yards. Accurate bombing. No losses
[underlined] 01/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 17 (Night time). Target [underlined] VOHWINKEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 5 Minutes
146 Lancasters of 3 Group. Successful attack on railway yards. 1 aircraft lost
[underlined] 03/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 18 (Daytime). Target [underlined] DORTMUND [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 45 Minutes
99 Lancasters of 3 group. GH attacks through cloud on Coking plant (HANSA). Accurate bombing. 1 aircraft lost.
[underlined] 07-08/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 19 (Night time). Target [underlined] MUNICH [/underlined]
Aircraft – HK 618 Code "G". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours 45 Minutes
645 Lancasters from 1,3, 5, 6 & 8 Groups – Very successful raid causing severe damage (see Terry's book – "Fliegeralarm" – Luftangriffe auf München 1940-1945)
11 aircraft lost and 4 crash in France
[underlined] 13/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 20 (Daylight). Target [underlined] SAARBRUCKENt [/underlined][sic]
Aircraft – ME 849 Code "L". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 20 Minutes
158 Lancasters of 3 Group attack Railway yards. Accurate but some overshooting
Divert to Predannack on return because of bad weather at base.
1 Aircraft lost
48
[page break]
[underlined] 16-17/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 21 (Night time). Target [underlined] WANNE EICKEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 5 Minutes
138 Lancasters of 3 Group attack Benzol plant. 1 Aircraft lost
[underlined] 23/01/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 22 (Daylight). Target [underlined] COLOGNE [/underlined] (GREMBERG)
Aircraft – PD 234 Code "E". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 55 Minutes
153 Lancasters from 3 Group attack Railway Yards. Good Visibility – Results variable
3 aircraft lost and 1 crashed in France
[underlined] 09/02/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 23 (Night time). Target [underlined] HOHENBUDBERG (DUISBERG KREFELD) [/underlined]
Aircraft – PD 234 Code "E". Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 5 Hours 10 Minutes
151 Lancasters from 3 Group attack Railway Yards. 2 Lancasters lost
[underlined] 19/02/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 24 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WESEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 444 Code "Y". Pilot – Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane
Flying Time – 5 Hours 15 Minutes
168 Lancasters from 3 Group. Good attack with best results around railway area
Leading Aircraft for whole of 3 Group. (I navigated and everyone else followed me!)
1 Lancaster lost
[underlined] 02/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 25 (Daylight). Target [underlined] COLOGNE [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 30 Minutes
858 Aircraft – 155 Lancasters from 3 Group. Only 15 aircraft from 3 Group bombed because of GH failure. All other bombing highly destructive. Cologne captured by the Americans 4 days later. 6 Lancasters lost
[underlined] 04/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 26 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WANNE EINCKEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 55 Minutes
128 Lancasters from 3 Group bombed on GH. No losses.
[underlined] 05/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 27 (Daylight). Target [underlined] GELSENKIRCHEN [/underlines]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 35 Minutes
170 Lancasters from 3 Group. Leading Aircraft for whole of 3 Group.
1 Lancaster lost
[underlined] 11/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 28 (Daylight). Target [underlined] ESSEN [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 5 Minutes
1079 Aircraft – 750 Lancasters. Attack accurate and Essen paralysed.
Leading aircraft for 32 Base. 3 Lancasters lost
[underlined] 22/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 29 (Daylight). Target [underlined] BOCHULT [/underlined]
Aircraft – PA 235 Code "E". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 5 Hours 15 Minutes
100 Lancasters from 3 Group. Leading aircraft for Squadron. Town seen to be on fire.
No losses
[underlined] 23/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 30 (Daylight). Target [underlined] WESEL [/underlined]
Aircraft – PA 235 Code "E". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 4 Hours 35 Minutes
Special GH attack to support Rhine crossing. 80 Lancasters from 3 Group.
Signal from General Eisenhower congratulating the crews concerned on their very accurate bombing.
[underlined] 29/03/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 31 (Daylight). Target [underlined] HALLENDORF [/underlined] (SALZGITTER)
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 7 Hours 5 Minutes
130 Lancasters from 3 Group. Attack on Benzol plant using GH. Leading aircraft for Squadron.
No losses
[underlined] 9-10/04/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 32 (Night time). Target [underlined] KIEL BAY [/underlined] – MINING
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 6 Hours 10 Minutes
70 Lancasters. No loss on Mining but 4 lost on main raid on Kiel (Very accurate - Pocket Battleship Admiral Scheer hit and capsized. Admiral Hipper Emden badly damaged.)
49
[page break]
[underlined] 14//04/1945 [/underlined] Sortie No: 33 (Night time). Target [underlined] POTSDAM [/underlined]
Aircraft – NG 358 Code "H". Pilot – Squadron Leader Percy
Flying Time – 8 Hours 35 Minutes
500 Lancasters. Attack successful and severe damage caused
1 Lancaster lost to night fighter.
Tour completed because the tour requirement was reduced from 40 to 30 whilst we were over Potsdam.
References Air 27 1352 (218 Sqn)
Air 27 204 & 205 (XV Sqn)
[photograph]
End of Tour, Mildenhall, April 1945
Lancaster "H" Howe, NG538
L-R: P/O Johnny Forster (flight engineer), Flt Sgt Jimmy Bourke (mid-upper gunner),
Ft Sgt 'Nobby' Clarke (rear gunner), Sqn Ldr Pat "Tojo" Percy (pilot), Flt Sgt Dennis "Napper" Evans (wireless op.)
F/O Tom Butler (bomb aimer), F/O Dennis Moore (navigator)
[photograph)
End of Tour, Mildenhall, April 1945
Lancaster "H" Howe, NG538
Squadron Leader Percy & Crew with ground crew
50
[page break]
1945 Appendix II
[underlined] Lancaster NG 358 Mark B1. XV Squadron (15) Coded LS-H [/underlined]
This aircraft was built by Armstrong Whitworth at their Baginton factory and was one of 400 delivered to the RAF between July 1944 & February 1945. The previous LS-H was HK 648 and NG 358 first appeared on the squadron in Mid-December 1944. It was finally 'Struck off charge' on 19/10/1945
[photograph]
Dates actually flown in this aircraft:
30/12/1944 Day 1450 'GH' Bombing Exercise
1-2/01/1945 Night 1610 6.05 VOHWINKEL 146 a/c, 3 missing
03/01/1945 Day 1250 4.45 DORTMUND 50 a/c
16-17/01/1945 Night 2307 5.05 WANNE EINCKEL 138 a/c, 1 missing
27/01/1945 Day 1005 Air Test
02/03/1945 Day 1200 5.30 KÖLN Led 32 BASE, 531 a/c, 6 missing
04/03/1945 Day 0946 4.45 WANNE EINCKEL 128 a/c
05/03/1945 Day 0940 5.35 GELSENKIRCHEN Led 3 Group, 170 a/c, 1 missing
11/03/1945 Day 1200 6.05 ESSEN Led 32 BASE, 750 a/c, 3 missing
29/03/1945 Day 1230 7.05 HALLENDORF Led SQUADRON, 130 a/c
09-10/04/1945 Night 2000 6.10 KIEL BAY MINING 70 a/c
14-15/04/1945 Night 1825 8.55 BERLIN (POTSDAM) 500 a/c, 2 missing
The crew of 'H' – 'HOWE' on the above flights was:
Pilot Squadron Leader Pat Percy
Navigator Flying Officer Dennis Moore
Bomb Aimer Flying Officer Tom Butler (Canadian)
F/Engineer Pilot Officer Johnnie Forster
Wireless Op. F/Sgt. Dennis Evans
Mid Upper F/Sgt. Jimmy Bourke
Rear Gunner F/Sgt. Nobby Clarke
Other 'operations' in other aircraft were flown with Wing Commander N.G. Macfarlane as Pilot. (see note below)
51
[page break]
[underlined] Explanations: [/underlined]
Bomber Command was split into GROUPS (mainly 3 & 5 Group) – each Group split into 3 BASES and each Base comprised 2 or 3 airfields on which there were usually 2 SQUADRONS. Each Squadron was normally split in two FLIGHTS although sometimes they had three. 3 Group Base were Nos. 31; 32 & 33. 31 Base comprised STRADISHALL & WRATTING COMMON plus one other; 32 Base comprised MILDENHALL, LAKENHEATH & METHWOLD. 33 Base comprised WATERBEACH, WITCHFORD & MEPAL. The other Squadron at MILDENHALL at this time was No 622 (Australian). Each Squadron normally had 24 aircraft and a 'MAXIMUM EFFORT' was achieved when all of them flew on an OPERATION ('op').
All daylight trips were in tight FORMATION and Bombing was done on 'GH' – which was operated by the navigator who actually 'pressed the button'. The Bombing Leaders were distinguished by the double yellow bars on the tailfin/rudder. All others in the flight bombed on the Leader. A limited number of Squadrons & Aircraft in No 3 Group were fitted with this equipment, which was extremely accurate.
Note. Mac (or Nigel, as I now am allowed to call him) lives in a retirement home near Capetown, South Africa. At the Mildenhall register meeting in May 1995 I was told he had died. The following day I was able to contact his son Ian (whom we had 'baby-sat') who is now a Harley Street Consultant and he put paid to this rumour.
Nigel & Margaret visited the UK June 2000 to celebrate their 60th Wedding Anniversary and Pam & I were invited to their Party. Not able to drive at the time so unable to go. Terry offered to pick him up and take him with us to Squadron 85th Birthday celebrations at Lossiemouth. Unfortunately he was not well enough so Terry & I went to Lossiemouth on our own.
1945 Appendix III
[italics] The Operational Sortie which the crew decided had turned me from being a "very Good" Navigator into an "ACE" Navigator. (Their words - not mine!!) [/italics]
An operational order was "posted" quite early in the morning of the 7th January 1945 and the fuel load was 2154 gallons (the maximum) so we all knew that we were in for a long haul. At the pre-flight briefing Munich was announced as the target and we were allocated HK618 "G" (George) with Squadron Leader Percy as pilot. We learned later that 645 aircraft from 1;3;5;6 and 8 Groups loaded with 1 x 4000 pounder (Cookie) and clusters of incendiaries, carried out a very successful bombing raid causing very severe damage. (See photos in Terry's book). A total of 11 aircraft were lost and another 4 crashed in France (nearly 3%, which was quite high at this time).
Getting airborne at 1830, the flight out was quite uneventful from a navigational point of view with 'Gee' working well and covering a good way down into France. Having bombed on a well lit (burning) target, the Alps were now the only visible landmarks and, at the appropriate time, we turned onto a northerly heading based on the wind component calculated on the way down across France. We kept going on this heading, expecting to pick up something to give us a 'fix' but unfortunately nothing was forthcoming, and at the ETA at the French coast I asked if any of the crew could see anything. Nobody else could see through the cloud but the rear gunner (who had a good downward view) finally called to say that we had just passed over a 'Pundit' flashing what turned out to be Manston!! Quickly turning on the IFF (identifying friend not foe) and crossing the Thames estuary, a quick calculation, the message" Maintain heading – ETA base in 17 minutes" was passed to the pilot. EXACTLY 17 minutes later the pilot reported "overhead base – joining circuit. Well done Navigator" Thus ended a 7hour 45 minute flight and the very tired but elated crew gathered in the briefing room to be met, as usual, by the padre dishing out the rum ration for those that wanted it. I was quite happy to have my share while we were being de-briefed, with a crew enthusing over my marvellous navigation (all the way back from the south of France without having to change heading once!!) and then off to the quarters behind the Mess to a well earned sleep.
What was never mentioned to anyone – and the crew in particular – was that, had the heading been just ONE degree to starboard, we would have gone sailing – literally – up the north sea and, because of the cloud cover, not know why we never made it back to base – if we had survived the ditching in the dark and subsequent days adrift in the North Sea – that is!!!
52
[page break]
1945 Appendix IV
[underlined] Dakota Flights (as Navigator) July 1945 – May 1946 [/underlined]
109 OTU Crosby on Eden
08/07/1945 – 23/07/1945 DAY 18.55, NIGHT 7.45
PILOTS: Flt/Lt Mason & Flt/Lt Samuael
Aircraft registrations: FZ609 KG502 KG619 KG658 KG664 KG666
B Flight 1383T/C.U
26/07/1945 – 27/08/1945 DAY 49.55, NIGHT 26.15
PILOTS: P/O Zygnerski & Flt/Lt Herringe
Aircraft registrations: FL652 KG373 KG392 KG638 KG726 KG644 KG649 KG657 KG726
52 Squadron RAF DUM-DUM CALCUTTA
01/12/1945 – 08/05/1946 DAY 345.25, NIGHT 13.50
PILOTS: Mainly F/O Harris but also Flt/Lt Ruddle, F/O Lofting, Flt/Lt Earwalker & F/O MacArthur
Route flying from Calcutta to Bangkok, Saigon (Ho Chi Minh), Hong Kong, sometimes calling into Chittagong, Meiktila, Hmawbi, Rangoon, Canton
Aircraft registrations:
FL507 FL612 KG212 KG502 KG573 KG923
KJ813 KJ814 KJ820 KJ904 KJ963 KK190
KN211 KN219 KN231 KN239 KN240 KN299
KN301 KN308 KN341 KL507 KN534 KN573
KN600 KN604 KN630 KN633 KP211
Total Hours: DAY 413.35 NIGHT 47.10
Appendix 1949
[underlined] "Lancastrian" G – AGWI/1281/TX276/111 [/underlined]
I flew 13 Sorties as Navigator in this Aircraft on the Berlin Airlift.
Registered 28/11/1945 to Ministry of Aircraft Production.
Certificate of Airworthiness No: 7283 24/01/1946.
Delivered to BSAA (British South American Airways) Heathrow 27/01/1946
Named 'Star Land'
Registered to Ministry of Civil Aviation 16/08/1948.
Sold to Flight Refuelling Ltd. 16/01/1949 and Registered to them 18/01/1949.
Allotted Fleet No. 'Tanker 26' and flew [underlined] 226 [/underlined] Sorties on Berlin Airlift
Scrapped at Tarrant Ruston 26/09/1951.
Berlin Airlift
[logo] Berlin Airlift [emblem]
[drawing]
[inserted] TX 276/1281 [/inserted]
AVRO LANCASTRIAN – FLIGHT REFUELLING LTD
47403
On 23 June 1948, the Soviet forces occupying the eastern part of Germany blockaded all rail, road and waterway supply routes from the Allied Western Occupation Zones in Berlin. With less than one month’s supply of food and fuel, the prospects for the two and a half million Berliners looked bleak. Only three severely restricted air routes remained as a lifeline between the besieged city and the western world. The Allies responded immediately with a miracle of logistics – The Berlin Airlift. Codenamed Operation Vittles by the USAF, and Operation Plainfare by the RAF, over a period of 11 months Allied aircraft made thousands of flights into the cramped airspace of Berlin and succeeded in supplying everything the city needed. Every available aircraft from RAF Transport Command was in service, as well as hundreds of USAF aircraft and even civil charter firms were called upon to supplement the effort. The operation became so skilled that the Soviet Command eventually realised that they had failed and on 12 May 1949 the blockade was finally lifted.
Avro Lancastrian G-AGWI represents an aircraft which was originally delivered to British South American Airways (BSAA) at Heathrow in January 1946. The aircraft was registered to the Ministry of Civil Aviation for a short period in 1948 before being sold to Flight Refuelling in January 1949. The aircraft was then allotted fleet no. Tanker 26 and flew 226 sorties on the Berlin Airlift.
[inserted] I FLEW IN 13 OF THEM [/inserted] [diagram]
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Dennis Moore Autobiography
Description
An account of the resource
Dennis Moore's autobiography, compiled and edited by his son, Terry Moore.
Creator
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Dennis Moore
Format
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53 typed sheets
Language
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eng
Type
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Text
Text. Memoir
Identifier
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BMooreDMooreDv1
Coverage
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Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
Germany--Weeze
England--London
England--Wallington Garden
Netherlands--Zandvoort
England--Croydon
England--Hartland
England--Lynton
England--Salcombe
England--Amersham
England--Newquay
England--Manchester
Scotland--Greenock
United States
New York (State)--New York
Canada
New Brunswick--Moncton
Maine--Portland
New Brunswick--Shediac
New Brunswick--Fredericton
Manitoba
Manitoba--Brandon
Manitoba--Winnipeg
Ontario--Toronto
Ontario--Hamilton
Ontario--London
Alberta--Medicine Hat
England--Harrogate
Scotland--Stranraer
France--Angers
Germany--Neuss
England--Carlisle
England--Morecambe
Pakistan--Karachi
Malta
Egypt--Cairo
Burma--Rangoon
India--Mumbai
China--Guangzhou
China--Hainan Sheng
China--Hong Kong
India--Darjeeling
England--Liverpool
England--Hastings
Kenya--Nairobi
Italy--Verona
Morocco--Marrakech
Northern Ireland--Belfast
Senegal--Dakar
Brazil--Natal
Argentina--Buenos Aires
Turkey--İzmir
Israel
Newfoundland and Labrador--Gander
Greenland
Iceland
Cyprus--Nicosia
Iraq--Baghdad
Bahrain
England--Blandford Forum
Germany--Hannover
Germany--Berlin
Germany--Hamburg
England--Skellow
England--Worcester
England--Scarborough
England--Pershore
Arizona--Tucson
California--Vandenberg Air Force Base
England--Diss
England--Chelmsford
England--Basildon
England--St. Albans
England--Slough
England--Letchworth
England--Stevenage
France--Calais
Germany--Duisburg
Germany--Wilhelmshaven
Germany--Stuttgart
Germany--Essen
Netherlands--Walcheren
Germany--Solingen
Germany--Leipzig
Germany--Cologne
Germany--Dortmund
Germany--Munich
Germany--Wanne-Eickel
Germany--Gelsenkirchen
Germany--Bocholt
Germany--Salzgitter
Germany--Kiel
Germany--Potsdam
England--Coventry
England--London
Germany--Wuppertal
Germany--Saarbrücken
Québec--Montréal
India--Kolkata
Germany--Wesel (North Rhine-Westphalia)
Vietnam--Ho Chi Minh City
England--Southend-on-Sea
France--Boulogne-sur-Mer
Italy
France
Arizona
California
Maine
New York (State)
Egypt
Ontario
Québec
New Brunswick
Alberta
Newfoundland and Labrador
Germany
Brazil
Burma
China
Cyprus
India
Iraq
Kenya
Netherlands
Pakistan
Turkey
Great Britain
Vietnam
Senegal
Germany--Ruhr (Region)
England--Berkshire
England--Buckinghamshire
England--Cornwall (County)
England--Cumberland
England--Devon
England--Essex
England--Herefordshire
England--Kent
England--Lancashire
England--Norfolk
England--Northumberland
England--Sussex
England--Worcestershire
England--Yorkshire
England--Warwickshire
England--London
Atlantic Ocean--Kattegat (Baltic Sea)
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
12 OTU
15 Squadron
1653 HCU
218 Squadron
3 Group
5 Group
52 Squadron
6 Group
8 Group
82 Squadron
90 Squadron
Advanced Flying Unit
air gunner
Air Observers School
aircrew
Anson
anti-aircraft fire
arts and crafts
bomb aimer
C-47
crewing up
Distinguished Flying Cross
Distinguished Service Order
entertainment
flight engineer
Gee
ground crew
H2S
Halifax
Hampden
Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984)
Heavy Conversion Unit
Initial Training Wing
Lancaster
Lancaster Finishing School
Lancastrian
Lincoln
Master Bomber
memorial
mess
Meteor
mine laying
Mosquito
navigator
Nissen hut
Oboe
Operational Training Unit
pilot
Proctor
RAF Bridgnorth
RAF Catterick
RAF Chedburgh
RAF Chipping Warden
RAF Farnborough
RAF Feltwell
RAF Honington
RAF Lakenheath
RAF Lindholme
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Mepal
RAF Methwold
RAF Mildenhall
RAF Shawbury
RAF Shepherds Grove
RAF Stradishall
RAF Thorney Island
RAF Tuddenham
RAF Waterbeach
RAF Wigtown
RAF Witchford
RAF Wratting Common
Shackleton
Spitfire
Stirling
Sunderland
Tiger force
Tiger Moth
training
V-1
V-weapon
Wellington
wireless operator
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2114/35445/SGillK1438901v10030-0066.2.jpg
f0d0400d0f4d619fce50026d24d4b278
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gill, Kenneth. Album one
Description
An account of the resource
Seventy-six items. Seventy four pages of photographs of people and places.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-09
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Gill, K
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Chicago and San Francisco
Description
An account of the resource
Top - view across city with Trustees System’s Service building, now Century Tower and the Merchandise Mart. Captioned 'gloomy Chicago's industrial areas'.
Bottom left - view of distant suspension bridge across bay with ship. Captioned 'Golden Gate bridge, San Francisco'.
Bottom right - view of city across water. Captioned 'Skyscrapers at dusk, San Francisco'.
Identification kindly provided by Bill Hutchinson and Hans Sabel of the Finding the location WW1 & WW2 Facebook Group.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
Illinois--Chicago
California--San Francisco
California
Illinois
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Three b/w photographs on an album page
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SGillK1438901v10030-0066
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/957/9628/SMathersRW55201v10024.1.jpg
c1a7a693e6d7dc6944b0a6e7a9e35645
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mathers, Ronald. Album
Description
An account of the resource
45 page scrapbook of Squadron life and The Goodwill Tour to the United States by 35 Squadron in 1946. It includes photographs, newspaper cuttings, and programmes. The tour visited stations on both the East and West coasts of the United States and the airmen were entertained with visits to Hollywood.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SMathersRW55201v1
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-07-17
Transcribed document
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
[photograph]
NESTLED IN THE Pasadena Valley, surrounded by green wooded hills, stands the Rose Bowl, palace of sport, stamping ground of the heroes of football. The stadium stands as a salute to the millionfold American sports followers, and to the men who valiantly participated in the games, as thousands cheer their favored team to victory.
[photograph]
THE HOLLYWOOD BOWL, rich in the rustic natural grandeur of the hills and slopes of Southern California. Acoustically perfect, this, the world's largest amphitheatre, plays host each year to the greatest musicians of our time and the greatest music of all time, at the Symphonies Under the Stars.
[page break]
Los Angeles Times [symbol]
CC MONDAY MORNING, JULY 29, 1946 CITY NE[missing letters]
BRITISH LANCASTERS ARRIVE FOR ARMY AIR FORCES CELEBRATION
[photograph]
TOKEN VISITORS – Crews of 15 Lancaster bombers line up for review at Long Beach Municipal Airport after arrival on last leg of “Operation Goodwill” from Britain. The British flyers and their planes will take part in Army Air Force Day observances Thursday. The flight here is in token repayment of numerous ones made by U.S. planes in war.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
British Lancasters arrive for an army air forces celebration
Description
An account of the resource
Photograph 1 is the Rose Bowl stadium, Passadena with a printed comment.
Photograph 2 is the Hollywood Bowl with a printed comment.
Item 1 is a newspaper cutting from the Los Angeles Times. There is a photograph of seven Lancasters and a line of airmen.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1946-07
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
SMathersRW55201v10024
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
California
California--Los Angeles
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-07
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Two b/w photographs and one newspaper cutting on a scrapbook page
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Roger Dunsford
35 Squadron
aircrew
Goodwill tour of the United States (1946)
Lancaster
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1279/17459/PPearceAT16010021.2.jpg
0c5c0d607215fd48c4b244753905d073
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pearce, Arthur
A T Pearce
Description
An account of the resource
140 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer Arthur Pearce (1874945 Royal Air Force) He served as an air gunner with 12, 170 and 156 (Pathfinder) Squadrons and completed a 44 operations. After the war, on 35 Squadron he took part in the June 1946 Victory flypast over London and a goodwill visit to the United States. It contains his diaries, memorabilia and photographs.
The collection also contains an album concerning his post war activity with the Goodwill tour of the United States.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Steve Allan and catalogued by Nigel Huckins
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Pearce, AT
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Approaching runway Long Beach Army Airfield, California
Description
An account of the resource
Air to ground view from cockpit of runway threshold of Long Beach Army Airfield, California. Aircraft on taxiway to left and cars parked on perimeter track in foreground.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16010021
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Mike Stilgoe
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
California
California--Long Beach
perimeter track
runway
taxiway
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1279/17471/PPearceAT16010033.2.jpg
13c87125cb83fb977d93d140ef3aed8a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Pearce, Arthur
A T Pearce
Description
An account of the resource
140 items. The collection concerns Warrant Officer Arthur Pearce (1874945 Royal Air Force) He served as an air gunner with 12, 170 and 156 (Pathfinder) Squadrons and completed a 44 operations. After the war, on 35 Squadron he took part in the June 1946 Victory flypast over London and a goodwill visit to the United States. It contains his diaries, memorabilia and photographs.
The collection also contains an album concerning his post war activity with the Goodwill tour of the United States.
The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Steve Allan and catalogued by Nigel Huckins
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-12-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Pearce, AT
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Aircraft on Long Beach Air Force Base
Description
An account of the resource
Vertical air to ground view of an airfield parking pan running top left to bottom right. Airfield buildings are also shown. Parked on the pan are Lancaster, B-29, C-57, Northrop P61, B-17 and Lockheed Constellation as well as other aircraft.
There are shadows of a 12-aircraft formation of Lancasters flying towards top of image projected onto the ground over the pan.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
One b/w photograph
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PPearceAT16010033
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
United States Army Air Force
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Geolocation impractical
Pending review
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
David Sykes
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
United States
California
California--Long Beach
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1946-08-01
35 Squadron
aerial photograph
B-17
B-29
C-47
Lancaster
P-38
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/934/36536/MLovattP1821369-190903-75.2.pdf
51c3fbced3b1e3bd9c7237f2cb79c94a
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lovatt, Peter
Dr Peter Lovatt
P Lovatt
Description
An account of the resource
117 items. An oral history interview with Peter Lovatt (b.1924, 1821369 Royal Air Force), his log book, documents, and photographs. The collection also contains two photograph albums. He flew 42 operations as an air gunner on 223 Squadron flying B-24s. <br /><br /><a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/1338">Album One</a><br /><a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2135">Album Two</a><br /><br />The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Nina and Peter Lovatt and catalogued by Barry Hunter.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-09-27
2019-09-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lovatt, P
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
A Reminiscence of the Flying Characteristics of Many Old Type Aircraft
Description
An account of the resource
A detailed analysis of very early aircraft and their flying characteristics.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Air Marshall Sir Ralph Sorley
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Felixstowe
England--Eastbourne (East Sussex)
England--Calshot
England--Bembridge
Atlantic Ocean--Spithead Channel
England--Cowes
England--Stroud
Scotland--Montrose
England--Sunbury
England--London
Monaco
Egypt--Cairo
Iraq--Baghdad
England--Felixstowe
England--Aldeburgh
Iraq
Middle East--Kurdistan
Middle East--Palestine
Jordan
Iran
Middle East--Euphrates River
Syria
Yemen (Republic)--Aden
Singapore
Australia
Borneo
China--Hong Kong
England--Kent
United States
New York (State)--New York
France--Paris
Nigeria
South Africa--Cape Town
Yugoslavia
Norway
Portugal
Spain
Denmark
Japan
Belgium
Argentina
Austria
Brazil
Canada
Chile
Greece
China
Lithuania
Estonia
England--Weybridge
Scotland--Island of Arran
England--Kingston upon Thames
France--Dunkerque
England--Hatfield (Hertfordshire)
Newfoundland and Labrador
New Brunswick
Maine
Maine--Presque Isle
Washington (D.C.)
Massachusetts--Boston
Pennsylvania--Philadelphia
Maryland--Baltimore
Washington (D.C.)--Anacostia
Tennessee--Nashville
Arkansas--Little Rock
Texas--Dallas
Texas--Fort Worth
Texas--Midland
Arizona--Tucson
California--Burbank (Los Angeles County)
California--Palm Springs
California--Los Angeles
California--Beverly Hills
California--San Diego
Arizona--Winslow
New Mexico--Albuquerque
Kansas--Wichita
Missouri--Saint Louis
Ohio--Dayton
New York (State)--Buffalo
Ontario--Toronto
Québec--Montréal
Newfoundland and Labrador--Gander
Netherlands--Eindhoven
Germany--Rheine
Germany--Osnabrück
India
Switzerland--Zurich
Lebanon--Beirut
Pakistan--Karachi
India--Kolkata
Singapore
Indonesia--Jakarta
Australia
Northern Territory--Darwin
New South Wales--Sydney
South Australia--Woomera
South Australia--Adelaide
Victoria--Melbourne
Sri Lanka--Colombo
Spain--Madrid
South Africa--Johannesburg
Kenya--Nairobi
Sudan--Khartoum
Greece--Athens
Italy--Rome
Zambia--Lusaka
Zambia--Ndola
Zambia--Mbala
Heathrow Airport (London, England)
Turkey--Istanbul
France--Nice
Utah--Salt Lake City
Italy--Genoa
Atlantic Ocean--Firth of Clyde
Italy
France
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Kansas
Maryland
Massachusetts
Missouri
New Mexico
New York (State)
Ohio
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
New South Wales
South Australia
Victoria
Northern Territory
Egypt
Sudan
North Africa
Ontario
Québec
Germany
Indonesia
Iraq
Kenya
Lebanon
Netherlands
South Africa
Switzerland
Pakistan
Sri Lanka
Turkey
Yemen (Republic)
Czech Republic
Slovakia
England--Gloucestershire
England--Hampshire
England--Herefordshire
England--Lincolnshire
England--Suffolk
England--Surrey
England--Sussex
England--Great Yarmouth
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Navy
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Text. Memoir
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
82 typewritten sheets
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1971-08-16
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
MLovattP1821369-190903-75
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending text-based transcription
aircrew
Anson
B-17
B-24
Battle
Blenheim
C-47
Chadwick, Roy (1893-1947)
Defiant
Dominie
Fw 190
ground crew
Halifax
Harvard
Hudson
Hurricane
Lancaster
Lincoln
Lysander
Magister
Manchester
Me 109
Mosquito
Oxford
Photographic Reconnaissance Unit
pilot
Proctor
RAF Boscombe Down
RAF Eastchurch
RAF Hendon
RAF Henlow
RAF Martlesham Heath
RAF North Killingholme
RAF Pembrey
RAF Prestwick
RAF West Freugh
Spitfire
Stirling
Swordfish
Tiger Moth
training
Wallis, Barnes Neville (1887-1979)
York
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1823/32629/PKentKD17010002.1.jpg
127cd9cf131860c6e9a4b31d500a61e8
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1823/32629/PKentKD17010003.1.jpg
51d305c00e26e56fb1b10fbf893a87a0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Kent, Kenneth D
K D Kent
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-04-04
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Kent, KD
Description
An account of the resource
31 items. The collection concerns Kenneth Kent (b. 1922, 572440, 55219 Royal Air Force) and contains a photograph album and documents. He joined the RAF as an Apprentice in 1936, starting his training at RAF Halton later going to RAF Cosford. He completed his training as an aircraft tradesman and was promoted to corporal. He volunteered for aircrew and went to the United States and Canada for flight training in July 1942. He was commissioned in July 1943 and was posted to 106 Squadron at RAF Metheringham. He was promoted to Squadron Leader in August 1945.
The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Nigel Kent and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
'The Redwood Highway, California, U.S.A November 1942'
The Redwoods, California 1942
Description
An account of the resource
Four photographs, the first captioned 'Sunset from the highway between Eureka and Crescent City.'
The second has a river its banks covered in trees, hills in the distance, captioned 'Eel River.'. The third has a group of tall trees flanking a road, captioned 'Richardson Grove.'.
The fourth similar photograph captioned 'Mather Grove.'
Three photographs, the first captioned 'The world famous "Tree House" Redwood Park'.
The second captioned 'The "Chandelier Drive Thro" Redwood Park 74 feet in circumference'.
The third shows a group of large trees captioned 'In Bolling Grove'.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1942-11
Format
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Seven b/w photographs on two album pages
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Photograph
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
PKentKD17010002, PKentKD17010003
Coverage
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Royal Air Force
Spatial Coverage
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United States
California
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1942-11
Rights
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Publisher
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IBCC Digital Archive