1
25
3
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/697/10100/ABassettFG180517.1.mp3
c76a4674418dcf52e322e714612bd4d8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bassett, Frank Gerald
F G Bassett
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Frank Bassett (b. 1924 1860826 Royal Air Force).
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-05-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bassett, FG
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
FB: It was bloody hard work humping bombs out for them.
AC: Right.
FB: Good job though. Good old blokes.
AC: So, I’ve got to, I’ve got to do an introduction. I’m, I’m Andrew Cowley. I’m from the International Bomber Command Centre. I’m interviewing Frank Bassett.
FB: Yeah.
AC: And also here are his son Gary Bassett and his granddaughter, Helen Howard.
FB: Right.
AC: It’s, we’re at his [redacted] It’s the 17th of May 2018 which is the seventy fifth anniversary of the Dambusters raid.
FB: Christ.
AC: And it’s 10.32. So Frank, I’m going to put some questions to you, but before we get on to the RAF just tell me about, a bit, a little bit about your childhood, your family, where you went to school, how you came to join up.
FB: I went to school at Wood Street School, Woolwich. When I left there, I went straight to a firm that I was going to learn a trade with. That would be [unclear] case making and all that. From there, I stayed there until I done a silly thing. Decided that I’d join the RAF [laughs] I don’t know why because I was already in the Home Guard and things like that and I was only about sixteen then. I was about eighteen when I went in the RAF, and where? I can’t even think where. I know it wasn’t too long before, where you are down in, I can’t even think of the names. I couldn’t even tell you the names of the ‘dromes there. But I was in the bomb dump there, or in the armoury and unfortunately that was another silly mistake. Apart from where we did the most work and it was bloody heaviest too. And where were we talking? I couldn’t even tell you most of the ‘dromes I’ve been on. But when you think we’re talking about when I was eighteen and I’m now forty five [laughs] ninety four. So that gives you an idea, you know, but I have to say that. Well, I don’t know. I suppose I was a bit silly at the time, but I thought well both my brothers were in the Army and I thought well, although I’ve got a trade here that’s alright. They, when I, when I told them they said, ‘Oh don’t worry about it. You won’t have to.’ I said, ‘But I want to stay.’ ‘What?’ I was learning a trade there. So, I said, ‘Well, I aint going to.’ Cor, Christ. So, they said, ‘Well, it’s up to you.’ And I left there and I went in the RAF and when I came out although I’d still about three years to do they said, ‘That’s alright. You can come straight in as what you’d been trained in.’ So that was alright as far as that go. But I can only remember I was doing fire watching and in the Home Guard and when I think you know, what’s the matter with me? And when I came out I went back to my old job again. And when I was in the RAF, apart from doing my training, where was that now? One of those coastal places. Anyway, most of the time I spent in, apart from going abroad I spent in where you are now in, I’m trying to think. Was there just one ‘drome there? But it was a Bomber Command one. You know. And as far as I’m concerned I don’t think I was always, well I would be if I was in aerodromes and that, that’s where you’re going to be isn’t it? Humping bombs about. And bloody hard work I have to say but so, but I don’t know why. I suppose I went in there as a kid and as you know there’s AC1 and AC2 and all that lot and I was a corporal when I came out. So, I was still only twenty four. So that’s not bad going really I don’t think. And I have to say that to be honest I think they were a good lot really, you know. I wasn’t keen on going in the Army although I’d been in the Home Guard and that. But yeah, they was quite nice and I think 617 was a really good squadron. The only thing is that as I say as far as I was concerned it, it meant getting bombs out the bomb dump, loading them up and then getting them out of there and of course the squadron blokes put them on but that’s the easy part, wasn’t it? And then we’d have to unload more when they came in and if they was a bit late at night we wouldn’t get no dinner until, I don’t know about 8 or 9 o’clock at night so, but I was only young so it didn’t really worry me. But I think that as I say I thought 617 was a really, that was one of the strong ones, weren’t it? They were really good them blokes, I reckon. Very nice fellas. So was, aircrews and that. But as I say, perhaps ‘cos I was a bit young. Perhaps I should have chosen something a little bit better but there you go. I chose the RAF and that’s it.
AC: Was there a reason you chose the RAF?
FB: It was strange really because I was, as I say I was in the Home Guard, which was Army and no I never thought about it but for some reason or other. I don’t know. Perhaps it’s because it’s a young lot wasn’t it? You know. And somehow or other I took to a fancy to it. And I soon learned better of course, but I, I really believe that they are, so was the Army I suppose and the Navy but I mean when you look at some of these kids nowadays, or these idiots as I call them no wonder the Germans said, ‘Christ [unclear] the only good was the Army.’ No. I think I quite liked it and what did I do? About four years I suppose. So, but I can’t say as I’ve got any complaints. I didn’t get into any trouble but I also didn’t do silly things which I think was quite good. And I liked Lincolnshire. That was quite good.
AC: Did you have any choice about the job in the RAF?
FB: Well, yeah actually we did but I don’t know. Well, of course I’d experienced the bombing at home, but when I went to the recruiting place they said, ‘What do I want to join the RAF for?’ and I thought as a young, a young, that’s sounds alright. So I said, ‘Yeah, I wouldn’t mind the RAF.’ And to be honest I haven’t got a bad word to say about them. Not like some blokes do, you know. I quite liked it even though I got in the wrong lot. Getting in the Army, by Christ. I should have, have gone in the office or something like that. Doing nothing [laughs] But no, I think they were a good lot of blokes, and I think 617 Squadron really were a fine lot. Well, they all were really. But they were a nice lot of blokes, I think.
AC: Did, did you get a choice of about whether you wanted to be an armourer or anything else in the RAF?
FB: I was in the RAF.
AC: No. Did you get a choice about what you wanted to do in the RAF?
FB: I couldn’t tell you now. For some reason or other I can remember roughly going to one of the ‘dromes and they said, ‘Well, we need blokes in the bomb dump.’ So [laughs] if they’d have said, ‘We need blokes in the café,’ I suppose I would have been in the café. No. So I got used and I had a few friends there and that’s it. So, I thought it was quite good. I don’t think that was a bad I say. Well, I would say that but I do think they were a good lot. There was none of this you know like some blokes they don’t want to be. As a matter of fact, there must be because when I had my photo taken they wouldn’t allow. ‘Your hat’s not on right.’ [laughs] but I was about twenty something then, I suppose.
AC: So, can you, can you describe to me a typical day for you in the armoury?
FB: A miserable day?
AC: A typical.
FB: A typical day. Oh. Well, we come out from the billet. We’d go down to the armoury. We’d be told what had to be done. If there’s anything going out that day there could well be a couple of lorries coming in with bombs on board which meant of course you had to do that. So therefore, you didn’t have a nice little job sitting somewhere. You’d do that. You’d have to make sure everything was as it was and it was hard work. I mean, you probably know yourself you get those long sodding bombs and you get one bloke on each end. It’s not easy. And then you get the hard ones where you’ve got a crane. And to be honest we never used that crane. You see you’ve got a crane there, a lift there. Nobody ever touched it. All done, done by hand. And when I think about well, I don’t know get four or five of you on it. That’s not bad. But you have to remember I was only twenty or so if I was about forty something I might have had a different view. But I thought they was, I thought they was quite good. I liked the places, and I suppose in a way just because you was in the Army didn’t mean you didn’t have anything else to do. Oh yes you did. When there was other things there you might be, I don’t know, route marches, or, whatever else had to be done. But like, as I say I was only young then so it didn’t worry me.
AC: Good.
FB: And where I worked wasn’t a piece of cake so it never worried me. So —
AC: Just going, you mentioned your billet. What was that like?
FB: Well, I had various billets but I have to say even about that for a billet it’s not bad. I don’t know what the Army’s like but this wasn’t bad. I mean it wasn’t like a hotel but [laughs] but the billets were alright. And you had to keep the place clean but I think that’s a good thing because I even say it to the kids sometimes if you’re, if you’re not organised you’re just a rabble and I don’t think the RAF was a rabble. Or any of the other services. And I found that most of the blokes, providing you were sensible you was fine. None of this old [moaning] None of that. As I told these I do have to have to have a bit of a laugh sometimes because I remember a bloke coming along the road and he said, ‘Oh, I want to get a paper.’ He said, ‘It does fold up I suppose.’ There’s all these blokes coming along and he said, ‘Ah, just a minute mate. Where do you get a paper?’ ‘Mate? Mate,’ he said, ‘What do you think they are? Report to the guardroom.’ But I mean, they weren’t all that bad really but I mean as I said before I do believe if you don’t have discipline it’s just a bloody rabble. And apart from, I don’t like to say that, apart from the German Army the British Army is the best in the world. That’s my one. I’m sure the RAF is also [laughs] alright. But no. I did my bit quietly really. I was glad to get home mind you but I went to Palestine and Egypt and that but I don’t know, you know.
AC: Did, did you have any contact with the aircrew?
FB: Not an awful lot because you have to remember the crews are out there. Me and my comrades were down in the bomb dump, and it wasn’t just a question of, ‘Oh, well that’s alright then. We haven’t got anything coming.’ It wasn’t like that as you probably know. There was bombs coming in all the time for you to unload apart from doing the rest of your work and it wasn’t easy but, I don’t know. I suppose I was, as I say I was only twenty or so. It didn’t worry me. I didn’t worry about cranes or anything like that. And I think it was, I can’t honestly say, I can’t remember it all, the difference when I was up but I can’t honestly say I was disappointed in the attitude or anything like that, and no, I think it wasn’t always, hey up, stand to attention. But when you was off duty it was quite good. So, I don’t think there’s, I think personally, I suppose I would say that but I really think they are a good force. I don’t know what they’re like now of course but, you know.
AC: Were you involved with loading bombs actually on to the planes?
FB: No. Actually, what we, what we did we got the bombs out the bomb dump and done what we had to do with them. Got them on the trucks. Pushed them out the trucks, and the aircrew had their own blokes so really in a way amongst the armourers they were the easiest. They had to unload them, load them on and that’s it finished. But not us. We might have loaded them on, got them out there. And then go and have your tea. When you come back there’s three trucks coming in. And it was bloody hard. But that’s another strange thing because I know I’d never done an easy job when I was in civvy street, but they was never what I would call [pause] it wasn’t easy, and you know yourself when you get one of these with a load of bombs on it, it’s not that simple but I’d find it a bit harder now I suppose, but no. I think they were a good lot and I think, well I think all the British forces are good. I would think that. But I’ve, I have no complaint about which is basically, I know there are some blokes in there in a nice office jobs, I suppose but that’s just one of these things. But other than that, I think they were a good lot of blokes. And the crews were good and all, I think. They weren’t [unclear] they was good blokes. So, and I really think that in a way they had a very hard job. I mean it’s not easy flying over somewhere and so —
AC: In your bomb dump can you remember any particular smells or anything about it?
FB: Not off hand, I can’t. The thing is as I say, because I didn’t choose any particular, what I wanted to do I suppose they’d go, oh good another bloke for the bomb dump, and that’s why you know I always worked in bomb dumps but it didn’t worry me.
AC: Was it, was it particularly hot. Cold. Can you remember?
FB: Sometimes it would be when the weather was a bit warm, you know and you’re humping bombs around. Remember you might have had a crane to do some things but like most blokes, ‘I don’t want a bloody crane. Get hold there,’ you know. But I’m, I’m saying that I don’t really, I suppose I’m biased really but when I say the RAF is the best one. There’s not one as good as that in the world. Never mind. You know. So, perhaps I’m biased.
AC: And can, can you remember any of the mates who you worked with? Any personalities?
FB: Well, I worked with a few blokes [unclear] I can’t remember. I can’t remember their names. Not even, look you can see one here [paper rustling] but I couldn’t remember his name either. Not him, I mean he worked in the bomb dump. He’s not [laughs] That’s me. I know you shouldn’t have your photo taken like that but I did. No, I’m trying to think of. As I say once I came out the RAF that was it. I went back to me work and —
HH: [unclear]
FB: It’s a long while ago. A long while ago. Trying to think. Probably might have been, might have a lot of jokes about different things but basically I think when you hear people talk about oh bloody this, and that I can understand it but they were a good lot of blokes and we knew what we had to do and that’s it. And if you wanted the war to end as quickly as possible you did that, didn’t you? You didn’t do silly things. I can’t think of any complaints. Even with the NCOs and that. They were quite good blokes. So, I think [unclear] we did but they were quite good.
AC: I’m going to read four placenames where 617 Squadron were just to see if it jogs your memory about where you served.
FB: Christ.
AC: There’s Coningsby.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Scampton.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Waddington
FB: Yeah.
AC: Woodhall Spa.
FB: Yeah. I’ve done all of them at different times. I remember them clear as anything but if you’d have said to me who was the captain of so and so, Christ, who would that be now? You know. But no, I really thought that and I still think they were the best aircraft in the world.
AC: So, did, did, did you have a favourite place out of all those?
FB: Well, I liked Lincolnshire. I don’t know why but I did. I was up there. Quite good there. Used to get out you know when we wanted to and the camp itself was quite good you know I thought and even the grub wasn’t bad really.
AC: But which —
FB: I know you hear these people moaning about everything but if you were honest it’s a bloody sight more worse than that so but no I can’t even remember what ‘dromes I was on. I’ve been on all them ‘dromes. I was at the one when the Lincolnshire blokes come in. You know, the Dam ones. But I can’t, I can’t remember. There were other ‘dromes I was at and of course I’d done certain courses at times and things like that but I can’t honestly say that oh, bloody awful you know. I think, and I might be wrong but I think a lot of young blokes they got it bloody easy in the forces. You know. The kids these days look at you they wouldn’t have that for five minutes. But you know I’m a bit scruffy myself now I suppose. Mind you I’ve got some better clothes but no. No, I have to say that although I don’t know why I really chose them. Perhaps it might have been glamour but if I was of that age again that would be who’d I’d prefer to join. The RAF.
AC: You said you did some courses. Can you remember what those courses were?
FB: Oh, Christ. Now you’re asking. It’s about ninety years ago. Oh Christ. They must have been armament courses some of them I suppose. Various other ones what you do, you know. I don’t know. They would all be to do with war. It wouldn’t be dancing or anything like that. But no. I can’t think. I can’t even think of the names of the blokes. But you wouldn’t, all that time ago, would you? I was only twenty or so. In fact, I was only, I think I was eighteen when, when I went to join the RAF and as I said I might have been about eighteen and a half by the time I got in there. But no. I met some nice fellas and I thought the, you know it was better than just marching all day or something. I understand, I suppose the Army has to do that probably amongst the other things but I was always, I’m even trying to even think of some of the names of the squadrons. 617 of course. You don’t forget them. And as far as I’m concerned they were without doubt, I’m not saying all the rest of the crews weren’t. They were. But 617, well, you know. But it was hard work but what do you expect? So —
AC: I think you may have loaded some Dambusters bombs. Is that right?
FB: Yeah. Oh yeah. But as I say, as you probably know first of all they come in from wherever they’re made. We unload them there. When they go out we load them again and the only difference was the aircrews had their own blokes for putting them on board. Bloody lucky. That’s all I can say. But no, I have to say that I’m not like some people, bloody war. I mean it was a war and that’s it. You could be in the Army which would have been worse. Both my brothers was in the Army and it wasn’t too great for them. No. I think [pause] Yes, I could have stayed out. In fact, the governor said to me, ‘You are doing a job where you won’t get called up.’ And I said, ‘Well, I’ve got no objections to being called up.’ [Unclear] But you wouldn’t ask that now. I know that. I suppose a bit silly at the time but I don’t regret it. Not really. You’ve got to do this and that’s it as far as I [pause] I wouldn’t do it now if I was, you know but I wouldn’t say no to anything like that and I realise you’ve got have to have a certain amount of discipline. I know that. But looking at it another way I think they was pretty good in lots of ways. So —
AC: Were, were any of your ‘dromes ever bombed while you were there?
FB: I think, vaguely, vaguely, I can’t remember, I suppose. I can’t even remember which ones it might have been. Why? I don’t think the damage if I can remember correct was too much. They were soon shushed up I think. But it must have been Lincolnshire, that’s where I was at, that’s where I spent most of my time before I went abroad, you know. And I can’t even think of the name until you mentioned the names of them ‘dromes. And I can’t even remember the commanding officers or anyone else. But as I say it’s ninety years ago. I’ve had nothing to do with the forces since then really, you know.
AC: Did you ever watch planes taking off or landing?
FB: Yeah. Yeah. I suppose I’m a bit biased but to me the RAF, there was no one like them. They couldn’t land like that and couldn’t take off and they couldn’t be like them but that’s how you’ve got to be I think. You’re not concerned with the enemy. Yes, I think there was some very good crews there. I was only looking in the paper the other day about their, what’s his name now. Apparently, he had short legs and he couldn’t get in to the RAF. But then he was a squadron leader with them. That just shows you. I met one or two blokes mind you but I suppose basically once you either go in to a trade or you gone in to whatever it was you stuck with that because as far as they was concerned that job was yours wasn’t it? And I think they were quite good blokes really. I don’t think there’s any real nastiness amongst them. They were quite all right. Maybe I was just lucky and most of the blokes were just good blokes. I never thought that sometimes you might go out to the ‘dromes but you never got any of these squadron leaders, ‘Oi you —’ and their weight you know and I thought that was bloody good really. They didn’t have to be like that but they were. Maybe I was just lucky and had lucky crews there.
AC: Did you know any aircrew? Did they tell you of any of their experiences at all?
FB: Christ, now I’m trying to think. I can’t think of any. I can’t even think of some of the raids they used to make. I know sometimes of course unfortunately they didn’t all come back. Sometimes they came back a bit, but I never, I never heard anyone saying, ‘Sod this,’ you know. Might have been one or two. I never heard anything like that and I thought they was all good blokes and certainly they never sort of laid the law down. As far as they were concerned they were aircrew and that’s it. And providing you was sensible it didn’t matter, you know. I thought they were good. Most of them crews. And yeah, there must have been something. A few of them shot up and that and various things. But as I said being in, it would be where you got Bomber Command. So of course most of my time was concerned with bomb dumps. I was getting bombs out, bringing them in, doing all this, doing all that so you didn’t get a lot of time really to, a bit of time off now and again and things like that but you worked. There’s no doubt about that. But I couldn’t think of any, I can’t think off hand that nobody liked. Obviously, I didn’t have so much to do with the aircrews but obviously when they weren’t training or anything they wouldn’t just stroll around the camp. But as I say if I had to join another force I know I’d, as I say I was in the Home Guard but they would be the ones that I would probably and it probably the same sort as I was with. I don’t know why. Perhaps it’s because I got used to it and there was some good blokes there, you know so, but no, sometimes the air raid would go off and but I can’t think of any real, real bad ones, you know. I can think of some being shot up a bit and things like that. Fortunately, when the crew weren’t in them [laughs] but I can’t really think of [pause] I suppose, in a way, thinking of it now working a lot of the time and you would be in the bomb dump wouldn’t you? Someone’s got to bring the bombs in. Someone’s got to arm them up, someone’s got to load them and get them out to, and the aircrew blokes, not them but their crew who had to do it for them. But they was a nice lot of fellas so, but no I can’t think off hand. If I was that young again and I wanted to join it would probably be the Air Force again. I don’t think it would be, perhaps I’m being biased but I’m being honest when I say I don’t [unclear] I didn’t find any of that providing you behaved yourself and dressed yourself properly. I think these blokes bellowing their heads off, a load of rubbish some of that is I think. But there you go.
AC: What did you get up to in your time off?
FB: Well, of course, being in London [laughs] you would be dodging bombs and things like that wouldn’t you because the raids was going on here just the same. And I don’t know. I suppose those blokes said, ‘Why the bloody hell did you want to join the Air Force when bombs come over here.’ But there you go. No. I didn’t do an awful lot. There wasn’t a lot you could do. And obviously I only had Air Force pay then. I wasn’t earning more than people on the outside. But I can remember, you know when I got demobbed as I told the kids once I went down to where I used to work, saw the manager, had a word and the bloke, I should have done a six, five or six year course. Actually, I’d done three of them when I went. I came in and one of the blokes said, ‘Hello.’ I said, ‘Hello.’ He said, ‘Are you coming back now?’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, ‘Oh, can I find you a job on the bench.’ No. He’s not going to find me a job. I’ll tell you what. He’s been doing the same job you were doing but I don’t care about that. While you were still here I was somewhere else. So other than that, fine. So I’ve never had push here, push there. All those. And I’ve always considered I’ve done a job well so —
AC: So, when you were on the ‘dromes —
FB: Yeah.
AC: On your time off did you go to pubs or, what did you do with your spare time?
FB: I’ve never smoked except a very little when I was young. Never drank. Did I [unclear] I don’t think so. No. I used to go out with the lads and might go in one of the cafes down there or things like that but we didn’t have a lot of money did we so we didn’t you know. But no, I might go to the pictures now and again. It was only about fourpence I suppose. No. It was all right. But nice enough blokes. We never had every day off of course. [unclear] sometimes but I can’t really have any moans about it. You know, I mean you don’t go to war and expect to have strong wine and [unclear] and got plenty of money do you? And I never had plenty of money so I accepted. No. I liked Lincoln as I say. I don’t think I’ve been there since but I did, perhaps it’s because the RAF was mainly a lot of young blokes weren’t they? I think, you I know. I think so. But no, it was alright.
AC: What about RAF songs? Have you got any of those for me? Songs.
FB: Songs?
AC: From the RAF.
FB: Yeah. I can’t remember them off hand. There were a few of course. Some were a bit more than the others but basically as I say I think as one German bloke put it there’s only two real armies. The British Army and the German. He’s probably right. But no, we had some good blokes there. Obviously, we must have had a few blokes who were a bit, you know but judging by today I don’t think so. I mean even your hair cut. I can remember them saying, ‘Get your hair cut.’ It was no good saying you had it cut yesterday. ‘Well, they didn’t cut it right.’ No. There must have been some things I didn’t like. I mean I have to say at times I’d think, ‘Oh Christ, there they go. They are on a day off. We’ve got to go back and unload another load of bombs.’ But it might have been a bit of a moan. But wouldn’t be now though so —
AC: Did you get sent stuff from home? You know, parcels from home.
FB: A few. Some blokes might have got a few more but that never worried me but as I say I didn’t used to drink and I smoked very little which I soon packed up when I came out the forces. I haven’t smoked for I don’t know how long. And no, sometimes I would get bored and have a kick about. If you were a lucky boy you’d get in a team, you know. But I’m trying to think. Obviously, someone must have had a moan. It doesn’t matter what it is and who it is. Someone is going to have a moan, aren’t they? But I can’t think and I have to say by that and large I think most of the officers and people like that were quite good. They didn’t go out of their way to be bloody nasty to you or anything like that. Certainly not in the bomb dump. They’d got no time for that. So, you know. No. No. No. I’m saying that if I had to join the forces again maybe I’d have a different view now but they would be who I would join. Well, if you look in that what’s the name you’ll see a 617 Squadron plane there. That’s how, just on the top there. But no, I think, I can’t think [pause] I wouldn’t want to do it now of course. A bit older now [laughs]
AC: Did you ever think where the bombs were going?
FB: Oh yeah. We had an idea where they was going. We weren’t told but we had an idea by the load so we knew roughly where they was going and I have to say we never thought poor sods or anything like that. They didn’t think that about us and obviously we didn’t them. To us they were the enemy, that’s it. Unfortunately, I suppose the civilians weren’t. But I don’t believe our blokes were so any old how. I don’t think they were like that. I think they would, did what they had to do. I don’t think they just went and dropped bombs any how. I don’t think that. Apart from the photos they brought back. But no, I suppose, I mean when you look at some of these young kids today. Christ. I suppose they could be smart enough. No. I think [laughs] I don’t know why. When I, when I got posted, first one, you know for joining I don’t know why I didn’t think, oh Christ, fancy getting Bomber Command. Letting me in. But there’s no doubt about it Bomber Command did do a lot of work in spite of all the others. I’m not saying they didn’t but Bomber Command was bloody hard work and certainly for the crews. I mean, some were very unfortunate, weren’t they? But I think they were nice sort of blokes. So —
AC: You, you mentioned that you went abroad.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Was that with Bomber Command?
FB: Yeah. I went to Palestine I think it was. Probably a photo there. Palestine and Egypt. But I think by that time it would be about nineteen, I’d been in the forces about two years then and there were rather funny things with that at times. Very funny.
AC: What sort of funny things?
FB: Well, on one camp I was at we used to have a place about two, two miles from the camp and you’d go out and I went out there and by that time I had four blokes and I would be in charge of them. And somebody rang up one day and they said, ‘How many men have you got there?’ And I went, ‘You what?’ ‘How many men you got?’ I said ‘Well, you just tell me the code.’ ‘I’m an officer.’ ‘I’m sorry what you are but — ’ ‘Well, you tell me.’ I said, ‘I’m sorry. I can’t.’ And he slammed the phone down. So, when we got back I told the blokes. They said, ‘Oh Christ,’ they said, ‘That’s one of the Stern Gang people.’ Them sort of people, ‘You were lucky.’ I said, ‘I know I was.’ Nobody would do it [unclear] And I think it was two months after that they done away with that. But so, considering we were bloody lucky really. So, I didn’t get too many of them, you know. We were —
AC: So, what was this place that was two miles away?
FB: Who I was with?
AC: No. You told me about a place that was two miles away from where you were.
FB: Oh, just a caravan. What it was for I don’t know but they used it for some reason or other. It was out there. Wasn’t out there much longer. I’m glad it wasn’t, you know. But obviously there must have been some nasty things going on at some places. We were lucky I suppose but there you go.
AC: And were you doing the same job in Egypt and Palestine?
FB: Mainly. But all to do with the armoury of course. Unless you wanted to do something else, I suppose. No point then. You were already in that sort of thing, weren’t you? But no. I was, I suppose from the time I finished my training basically that’s what I did. Armoury. I wasn’t asked [laughs] whether I wanted to of course. But, but as I say I don’t think it was all a bit of cake but I don’t think there’s a lot of people realise what they’ve got to thank these people. Particularly some of the air crew. There you go.
AC: So, after the war did anybody speak to you about what Bomber Command had done?
FB: I can’t think off hand, you know and I could have gone on. Strangely, I’d only been home about three weeks and I think I got a letter saying, perhaps you are fed up now being in civvy street and we, if you want to come back in to the Air Force you would get immediate upgrade, you know. Higher rank, you know. But I was home then. I’d got a couple of kids so I wasn’t interested in. I suppose I’m a little bit, you know. You never hear me making any complaint about what they were or even the ones that weren’t too good. If you was in the war you was in the war. And that’s it. Better than my brothers. They was in the Army. Well, I don’t know.
AC: Did, did you ever miss the RAF?
FB: I suppose I can’t really say yes because I was still only young. Back home, back in my job, I’d got two kids, earning good money and fairly, you know, no one saying what I got to do and if I wanted to go anywhere I’d go anywhere. But I still think that I know you get blokes saying you must have been bloody mad. But I really think that if you had to go, I didn’t have to I know but I think really by and large I think they were good lot of blokes really. There must have been some of the blokes that weren’t but by and large I think they were quite good and I can’t ever remember being in any real trouble, you know. I might have had my hat put on the wrong way but other than that I think they was quite good, you know and certainly the rest of the blokes and definitely the aircrew were. None of this, the aircrews that were in the station none of them [unclear] No. No. They’re all good blokes but perhaps we were just biased at the ones we chose.
AC: Did you stay in touch with any of your mates?
FB: No. Not now. I wouldn’t be. I did one or two. I saw one or two and then of course I went to visit one or two blokes who I was in civvy street with but that was a long while ago. I couldn’t even tell you their names now. So not, no as I say I married and got a couple of kids who have also got kids. So no, I don’t think and I stayed in the job I left right up until the firm closed down. And other than that, so I was still working when I was fifty eight so, you know.
[recording paused]
FB: To get to any reasonable rank you had four lots to get through there. AC1, AC2, AC1, LAC before you got to a corporal rank. So I, and I was, remember I was only young then but I did —
GB: You got promoted, didn’t you?
FB: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
GB: Was that a few things —
[recording paused]
FB: Really, what I told you. I don’t think I was deliberate. I’m just not that way. I’m not going to say I would like it. I might not like it but there you go. But for me you know but I’d like to think I did my best while I was in the force. I didn’t do anything really I might have done one, two or three silly little things but I didn’t do nothing that you shouldn’t do. So therefore, as far as I know I never had a bad word anywhere and I, as I say it takes you a while to get these promotions but when you think about it I was a boy in a sense but I don’t know if somebody said to me would you be proud to be in the forces? And I would say yes. The RAF. That’s what, I chose that. They didn’t put me in it. So, you know, and I’d sooner think I did the right thing even though I sometimes speak to people, ‘ Cor, Christ, I wouldn’t have liked to have been in that lot. Didn’t you have any time off?’ I said, ‘Time off? A bloody war on. What are you talking about? Time off.’ We did get a certain amount of time off but no I found most of the blokes and most of the officers and that, even the commanders I didn’t find them [unclear] I think if you behaved yourself they were alright. They don’t expect you to always, but they, they’re not nasty blokes like some of these people say. Bloody ridiculous. But there you go. But I’ve got a nice big one of those down at my daughter’s. That’s where that’s come from. But no —
AC: So, you came from quite a poor family.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Is that right?
FB: We were all poor in those days unless you were in work and had a job.
AC: And do you think you sort of built up your health and strength when you joined the RAF?
FB: Well, basically I must have done because I mean I had to leave school when leaving age was about fourteen, I suppose. Something like that. Because you needed to get out and get a job and I was fourteen and as far as I can remember to be honest now I don’t think I was, I’ve got a few things now but I was still doing things when I was eighty [unclear] And I think, I think the, I don’t know how bad the Army really is, or the Navy but I think the RAF was quite good and they were who we got the training from. They weren’t all mugs or anything like that but they were decent blokes. If you behaved yourself that was all they were asking for. So I’d already got, I don’t know perhaps I was just lucky. It might have been that.
AC: I’ve been told you did PT on Great Yarmouth beach. Is that right? Do you remember that?
FB: I don’t know whether I can. I must have done it. Must have done it. And route marches and things like that on a course like this, you know. Well, I mean I’d been in the Home Guard. I’d done a few. Not like that but it didn’t worry me. And I thought, by and large I still think if you’ve got to compare different countries I don’t think there’s one to [unclear] our country. Perhaps I’m just biased, you know.
AC: And when you were doing the Dambusters stuff.
FB: Yeah.
AC: Is that right you realised that there was something was going on? The bombs were a bit different.
FB: Oh yeah. I mean these were on a, weren’t like the ordinary bombs, you know. These were on a you know, on a [unclear] they looked like that but on a great big long what’s the name and you’d got up there. You’d got a crane but you’d no time for that. And so you’d dump them on as I say. Push the tray and then someone would take it over and take it out to the ‘drome and their blokes would put it on and they’d finish with it then. We weren’t of course because as soon as you got stuck down in would come a load more and you had a lot of work to do but so had lots of other blokes and some poor sods were in the front line so how can you, you know. I’ve never been that way. Just as now. I mean, lots of blokes now say, ‘Sod that,’ you know but I’ve never been like that and I like to think I behaved myself when I was in the forces. But yeah, I must have put some weight on. I think I must have been about, I don’t know eight or nine stone and a little while ago I weighed just on eleven stone. I don’t know. Twelve stone. Obviously, I don’t work now in that way. But no, I think when you talk about, we know it’s all rubbish about the grub‘s wrong but it’s not that bad and the cooks are not bad blokes either. So, I don’t think it was, it wasn’t like going to the Royal but I mean what do you expect? And I suppose we all had our little moans but I still think, I might be wrong but I think choosing the RAF was the wisest one. I think they were not so bad as maybe it’s different in the [pause] you know. I mean in the RAF you’re dealing with not only ground staff but you’re dealing with aircrew so I suppose perhaps don’t get so much, you certainly get some hard work but, you know. So —
AC: You mentioned the food there. I think sometimes you had to make do with sandwiches you weren’t keen on.
FB: Well, we did. Not the, all the camp didn’t. They were all right. 5 o’clock tea or whatever. We did because we had, as I say we got to get the loads out and you know talking about one lot, you’re talking about I don’t know could be ten or fifteen loads you got to get out and you’ve got to get them out and you’ve got to put them on there and you’ve got to send them out and the squadron armourer would take over then but their’s was not bad. They had a good job but I mean they didn’t have to get them out. They had to put them on. But that’s not, and that’s just them. You’ve got all the other bombs remember, even, you know for all kinds so you would be working all day a lot of the time and at times they’d say, ‘Well lads, we’ve got some nice grub for you coming out the line.’ [groan] Yeah. Because you’ll be working out here ‘til 8 o’clock. [laughs] So, but I don’t know. I suppose you must let them moan, isn’t it? I have a moan now sometimes. [unclear] I have to put him in his place. I don’t know. I don’t know how he’d have got on. I really don’t. Blimey, he’d been in the guardhouse and not come out for a long while I reckon. No. I think if you’re honest about it if you’re in the forces you’re in the forces and that’s that. There’s no good being [unclear] about it. You’ve got to [unclear] haven’t you up to a point so that’s it. I’ve never been in any trouble.
AC: Going, going back to your time in Palestine and Egypt I think there was some stuff going missing from your camp was there? Do you remember that?
FB: I can’t honestly say I do because we’re talking about ninety years ago nearly.
AC: In the latrines, was it?
FB: I thought basically where ever we were was not bad but I suppose I would say now, ‘Cor sod that. All that hard work,’ but like I say I was only twenty so, eighteen when I went in to the forces which I didn’t have to do but I did and so I don’t think, I still say that alright I’m biased I suppose but I still say the RAF is the best air force in the world. Whatever they say. Probably the other countries say the same but, you know.
AC: Is there anything I ‘ve not asked you about that you think might be of interest. Anything you can think of?
FB: Well, I can vaguely remember some. Vaguely, when there might have been some outside attack on the camp or something you know from outside. But I can’t even remember where they were or who they were. But they were nothing to them. Well, they were. They got in the way I suppose. But like as I said before there would probably be some things I wouldn’t know because like I said before if you was in the armoury that meant you had to work. There’s no doubt about that. Not like working in the office or some cushy little job. It wasn’t like that. You could be bleeding working hours all day. Grub brought out to you for your dinner. You know. Your dinner was, I don’t know 12 o’clock but about 8 o’clock at night. Get home by about often, where you was working at. You know. But no. I suppose in a way if I was one of these sort of persons that didn’t like [unclear] I’d probably say bloody [unclear] but I can’t say that. I’m not saying I would volunteer again. I’m a bit older now but you know. But no. I mean some of the times I went on was really good. Really good. But some weren’t so good of course. But there must have lots of things that went on that I can’t recall. I think I can vaguely, must have been something wrong with some, one or two aircraft got blown up somehow or other but I mean ninety years is a long while to think. I couldn’t even tell you the names of the camps I’ve been in. I couldn’t even tell you that and I liked that. We were there for a few years so I don’t know why. I don’t know and I don’t think [pause] I can’t say about today but I certainly don’t think it’s as bad as a lot of people would try and make out. If you’ve got to behave yourself you’ve got to behave yourself. So, I can’t say anything about simply because you know you think you’d go out when you liked and you can’t do that but I don’t think that’s myself. I’m not sure as I would do it again of course. I know better. But if we all thought that we’d all be marching along with the bloody Germans or something. You can’t do that. So, I don’t know.
AC: Well, that’s —
FB: Oh well. I’ll think. I could make it [unclear] When Gary’s, ‘What’s he on about. What’s he [unclear] I don’t know who they are?’ And I don’t know who you are of course, but I suppose I don’t know. I said, I don’t know [unclear] Bloody honour, I think. I don’t know but there you go, you know.
AC: Well, that’s, that’s been very interesting Frank and it will be very useful for our purposes so thank you.
FB: Well, as long as I’m only discussing things probably at one time I wouldn’t have bothered to answer it but I’ll try to be honest. I haven’t tried to pretend [unclear] several people or nothing like that. I haven’t done that. But what you really want it for I don’t know. But there you go, you know.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Frank Gerald Bassett
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Cowley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-05-17
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABassettFG180517
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
01:00:02 audio recording
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Civilian
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Description
An account of the resource
Frank was brought up in Woolwich. He joined the RAF at the age of 18 and became an armourer. Frank describes the difficult physical work, loading and unloading bombs. He served 617 Squadron and loaded bouncing bombs, which were different. He remembers RAF Coningsby, RAF Scampton, RAF Waddington and RAF Woodhall Spa. He also went with Bomber Command to Egypt and Palestine. Frank expresses his pride in the RAF.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Egypt
Great Britain
England--Lincolnshire
Middle East--Palestine
North Africa
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Julie Williams
Sally Coulter
Carolyn Emery
617 Squadron
bombing
bombing up
bouncing bomb
civil defence
ground personnel
Home Guard
military ethos
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/717/10112/ABondsJA180702.1.mp3
36d84a4e75bb15dcf8ac8e3351f15fc5
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Bonds, John Allbon
J A Bonds
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with John Bonds (b. 1920, 1388207 Royal Air Force).
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-02
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Bonds, JA
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AC: The date is the 2nd of July 2018, it’s 10.40am, I’m Andrew Cowley on behalf of International Bomber Command Digital Archive. I’m interviewing John Allbon Bonds at his address in Petwood Kent. Also present it his wife Ruth. So John, tell me about your early life, your family life, where you went to school, and the jobs you did before you joined the RAF.
JB: Well I went to school in a place called Blackheath Hill, you know Blackheath Hill? Well there’s a school there, and it’s a child’s school I went to there and I became top of the class at drawing. Anyway, after that when it was time to go, I went and then we moved to Blackheath Hill, Days Lane I think it was called, Days Lane, it’s on the left going up Blackheath Hill and from there I spent most of my life you know, when I was a boy. Now then, [background voices] from there, oh yes, as I grew up there, I couldn’t tell you exact date of birth or how long, I must have been something about twelve, something like that, and my father wanted to move out of there, so we moved out of there. He got a barrow, a long barrow, which was pushed, just for pushing, so we loaded our stuff onto where we were at the time and we put all of, most of our gear, which we had, and put it on to a barrow, and then we moved over to Downham, Downham Way. We had to shove, that was long way that was, wasn’t it, anyway, it took us a few hours [interference] and when we got there we stayed, it was near the railway and a cemetery and there I grew up a bit. I’m not sure about school, I don’t think I went to school, I’m not sure. Anyway, it was started, the war, then and I suppose I was going out one day and the aeroplanes were flying over the top and I looked round and they was ‘plop, plop, plop; they were just dropping bombs, smoke bombs, anyway I turned round and went back home again. And there, [sigh] I grew up from there and then, oh, I joined the Air Force. Yes, the war came on then, I joined the Air Force, and from there I was, I became an engine mechanic and I had to go to Blackpool, that’s where you learnt, I was three months there to learn the trade as I didn’t have a clue about aircraft. Anyway I learnt me trade there, and I was still over at Blackpool, and, oh god, Days Lane and [pause] from there I was called up. And I joined the Air Force, and while I was there I learnt the, tried to learn, the engines, which I did, and while I was still living over at, Downham Way again and my family and I went out for a drink to celebrate, and while I was there, there was a young girl kept eyeing me up. And eventually, after a few years, we got married and that was that. We had a child, just one girl, one girl, and she grew up okay, but she was a bit of a devil at times. Anyway from then onwards, I, she moved away, to somewhere, not sure about that, but anyway, and that just left my, oh that girl that I married, yes, where we had the baby, which was the girl that we, just moved away, and from then onwards I joined the, not sure what that was, oh, the Air Force. I was in the Air Force, that was it, I was on the way. [Sirens] Oh yes going from there I was on a, taken to an airport near Biggin Hill, that’s an air place there, that’s Spitfires, and we went up there and we, I did the engines on Spitfires. Anyway I was there for a few months, or maybe a year, I’m not sure, and they took me off there to, [pause] oh dear, can’t remember the place I went to. Anyway it was Bomber Command then, and it was all bombers, and they were, I’m not sure of the bomb machines, there were several names several of them there, bombers called, can you remember, name of bombers what we had?
AC: Well there was Lancaster, Wellington, Hercules, Mosquitoes.
JB: Yes. Wellingtons I think they were, I know it was a rotary one. Rotary, four engined rotary bombers and every now and again we used to get the siren sounded and course we all dived down the shelter, and sometimes the bombers just went straight over, and then one particular day they didn’t and they came over and we all dived in the air raid shelter, no, forget that, I’ve got to go, must remember something else. Ah, no that’s right, carry on, and anyway from then onwards I was on Bomber Command see and we all run for the shelter when they came over and then. [Pause] [Creaking]
AC: Can you remember what stations you were at?
JB: I can probably tell you if I saw a map. Think it begin with C. C.
AC: Coningsby?
JB: No. Not Cambridge is it? Is Cambridge round there? That’s probably where it was. Yes, there, that’s where one day I was working on the engines, and every now and again you had to take the sides off and then pull the propellers around to get, to make sure you had compression. Well anyway, I did this one one particular day and then suddenly bang! The engine went pop and it knocked me right up in the air, onto the floor. [Indecipherable] Lots of people came round to see what’s wrong and I said well, somebody must have switched the engine on! And we found out then that some silly so and so playing up in, it was an engine mechanic and there’s an engine [indecipherable] and something else, but they do all the, all the ins and outs, like well all things which the pilot uses, and anyway the stupid man there, he went, he pushed the wrong switch and it was on my bloody engine and it knocked me flying there. From then onwards I was in hospital and I was in there for about three weeks, and during that time the whole lot went abroad. They went to Egypt, where the war was, and from, after that I was back on the, when I was fit again I was on the aerodrome again, with the bombers and I was okay then. Then after that, if I remember correctly, very few people came back from Egypt, the ones that went, had to come there. That’s about it, that’s about all. I served me time on the, in the Air Force and that was it.
AC: You didn’t go to Egypt.
JB: No, cause I was in hospital, when they went, when they came back there was nobody on the aerodrome, well only a few people anyway. I was sent home and then I went just, I’m not sure I went to another aerodrome, I’m not sure, and I suppose I spent the rest of the time, my time just outside of Cambridge and I used to watch the bombers coming over and they used to come over to my aerodrome and try and bomb us [creaking] because we had bombers at that particular time. Yeah, they used to come over and our aerodrome was situated about twenty miles out and you see, when they came over to bomb London, I could see the flashes coming, from London, you know, where they dropped the bombs and from then onwards it was, and the war kept going on till it finished. Yes, and then I came out and that was it.
AC: What was your job before you joined the RAF?
JB: Nothing particular, I was just a normal.
RB: Builder.
JB: I had learned a trade, engines, that was in Blackpool. I didn’t have much of a trade, I was, ah, yes I did, I was a bricklayer, because when I left school I was a bricklayer and then I carried on after the war like, bricklaying.
AC: Did you have any choice as to what your trade would be in the RAF?
JB: No. Because they sent us to Blackpool, Blackpool was the centre of the particular bombers, I don’t know what it would be, because on engines then, not sure if they were rotary ones or just horizontal ones there, like the, our bomber. Er, gosh, makes you think doesn’t it, things you think of, things you don’t, can’t think of. Yes, and after that the war finished and I took up bricklaying again. I was good at it, I was one of the fastest and one of the neatest bricklayers going, I was wanted everywhere and they made me up as a foreman, and then I was, I just seemed to move around as a foreman and do bricklaying. Oh, there’s one particular one on the coast.
[Other]: Him and his partner built, were the ones, you know the Wembley Conference Centre. They were the head ones to do that, so then he sort of joined up with somebody on the same team and they became partners.
JB: Oh, Wembley Conference Centre, yes, we did, my partner and I, we did all the work inside and we were there a few, quite a few months, building up, and then they asked us to, when we finished they asked if we’d like to go abroad cause they were satisfied with our work, and we said yes, try it if you like and then we found out that it was the, was Dubai desert, right in the centre, and we stayed there working on, I’m not sure what it was, but we stayed there quite a few months and we had, when we went over there we took two or three people about what we knew, that we could, and we, the rest we used their people. They, supposed to go, every now and again, you know, their people would stop, go out, go ‘Allah, Allah’, hit the ground and anyway I used to go round and say get up you lazy sods! Anyway after that we came home, we finished the job, we came home, we were paid cause it was all you don’t know, no government takes any money off you, no and it was just the sheer money I got. From then onwards we, we got married and, three, three other, I mean first marriage, she died. Second marriage she died too, and then there’s Rose here.
AC: In, in your time in the RAF, can you remember things you did when you weren’t working? Where you went out, go to the pub?
JB: No, we were just walking round the fields, you know, and going on jobs. I can never remember going in the pubs or anything like that.
RB: No, he’s never drunk.
JB: And that was that.
AC: What about the living conditions on the aerodrome, what were they like: the food, that sort of thing?
JB: Oh, was quite good, quite good [creaking] specially trying to remember the airfield, yes, oh no, I can’t, but it’s the one, an airfield up -
AC: Is that in Lincolnshire?
JB: No. What’s the nearest airfield from here?
RB: Sorry? Cornwall? You never went to Cornwall.
JB: No, I said what’s the nearest airfield from here? Biggin Hill?
RB: Biggin Hill, you never went there. That’s just up the road. I really don’t know much more of his past life.
JB: I’m sure it was there.
RB: I think you were up country, you’ve always told me you were up country somewhere, but you never went to, you never came down to Biggin Hill. You never went to Cornwall. You did mention St Eval at one time, but I don’t know if that was just something, I don’t really know. I know my dad was at St Eval.
AC: But working on the engines, how did you find that? Did you take to it easily?
JB: Yes, yes. Not sure now.
AC: Did you get to know any of the aircrew?
JB: No.
RB: Yes you did, cause you said one was going to take you up! You used to go up after you’d done -
JB: On bombers yes.
RB: The pilots used to, after he was, worked on them, some of the pilots took him up.
JB: Yes. Some of them, just for safety’s sake for them [emphasis], they used to say well, do you want a trip? And I used [indecipherable] to sit by the pilot because then he felt happy because I, if it wasn’t for me and the plane crashed I’d go with him, wouldn’t I, that was the idea anyway! I’m sure it was Biggin Hill I was on for a while, there I packed up.
AC: So the flights you went on, were they just local or did you go on raids?
JB: Oh just all local, just trying the bombers out, they often used to do that – they would just “jump in,” just going to [indecipherable] then come down again.
AC: How did you find that?
JB: Oh, I loved it, yes, I loved that out there. Sit by the pilot, watching the pilot, seeing what he was up to, yeah.
AC: Can you remember what planes you went up in?
JB: They were bombers, I’m not sure exactly, they were English bombers, [clap sound] god help us. They were round engines. No, I just can’t go any further than that.
AC: Did you have to work on any planes that were damaged, in raids?
JB: No, no. I’m sure that we stayed on the bombers until I retired. They sent me, told me that I could go home then, and then I came home. I got something somewhere, I just can’t remember.
AC: Can you remember any of the people you used to work with?
JB: Well, the one that I did, when I was in hospital, he never came back, and that was about the only fellow that I knew, or used to talk about one another, you know, he was the only one I knew properly, as I say, never saw him again.
AC: What were your injuries you were in hospital for?
JB: Head. Head and shoulders. Yes, I think I was in there two, two, three weeks, something like that. It’s a bloomin’ job to remember.
AC: Was that a local hospital, or a RAF Hospital?
JB: I’m not sure, I don’t know, I’m not sure. It must have been a normal hospital, I remember a few people there which they had normal dressings on you know, like walking about. Apart from that just, my mind’s a blank. Except that I got married, [indecipherable] died, poor woman died, I got married again, and same thing happened, she went to hospital, didn’t come out. And the next one, she was a pest! [Laughter] No, she’s wonderful!
RB: [Laugh] Your coffee’s there, otherwise I won’t make you no more!
JB: Yes. She’s a real darling, she still is to me. Does everything I need.
AC: When you joined the RAF, did you volunteer?
JB: No, I was called up: twenty one. Yes, I was called up when I was twenty one. That’s when I chose the Air Force. I didn’t choose the type of aircraft, they told me I had to go, would I want to go on the working side, like engines, or airframes, well I said engines, cause it was happy work, it was good thing to remember when you came out. Anyway, as I say I had to go to Blackpool and learn the engines for about three months, and that was it, after that I had to, was put on to an airfield [cough] and went on Spitfires. After a time they took me off Spitfires and then put me on to the bombers, which I finally ended up.
AC: Were you working outdoors? Can you remember?
JB: On the airfield, when I was on the Air Force? Working there were houses which all the people --
RB: Hangars.
JB: Or hangars if you like, we used to sleep anywhere, mostly we slept on a bed, you know, empty hangar, you know, and that was that.
AC: Must have been a bit cold!
JB: Sometimes. No, you were well dressed, well warm, had plenty of stuff to put round you. It’s just that part I just can’t remember a lot of.
AC: Can you remember the names of any of the engines you worked on?
JB: No, if you knew any of the names I could probably tell you, but it’s such a long time.
AC: Do you still have any contact with anybody from the RAF?
JB: No, no.
JB: You can remember your call up number, can you?
JB: Something’s in my mind 1388217, but whatever that is I don’t know.
RB: Well it’s nothing I know of!
JB: 1388217, if that was, it might have been my number, I don’t know. Yeah, 1388217.
AC: Did you ever have any thoughts about what was happening when the bombers took off and went on raids?
JB: We just sat around waiting for them to come back again. Yeah, that was at the, main Air Force airfield just outside of Cambridge. That’s about all I can say really, just can’t think of anything else. It’s a long time ago to remember isn’t it. [Chuckle]
AC: Is there anything else you can think of that you believe we might be interested in about your time in the RAF?
RB: There’s something he’s talked about. Is there anything you remember that stands out, any particular time. Any particular time? Things you’d done when you were in the Air Force? You know, you were in there two years, it’s a long time. Places you went, things you done?
JB: No, just a normal LAC!
RB: He’s got quite a hold. Don’t upset that coffee.
JB: Well okay, right.
AC: Okay John, well it’s been interesting talking to you and thank you.
JB:L Sorry I can’t help you but it’s a long time ago.
AC: Of course. I understand.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with John Allbon Bonds
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Cowley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-07-02
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ABondsJA180702
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending review
Pending revision of OH transcription
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:31:14 audio recording
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Royal Air Force. Fighter Command
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Description
An account of the resource
John Bonds was brought up in London and remembers bombs dropping near him. He joined the RAF as an engine mechanic and after training worked on Spitfires before being posted to bombers. He was injured in an accident in a hangar and spent some time in hospital before returning to work on engines once more, enjoying test flights with the pilots. After the war John returned to his trade as a successful bricklayer.
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--Kent
England--Cambridge
England--Cambridgeshire
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Anne-Marie Watson
ground crew
ground personnel
hangar
RAF Biggin Hill
Spitfire
-
https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/1101/11560/ARoffeyRA180830.1.mp3
9782808fa9c0889463c3ada508d99d10
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Roffey, Ronald Arthur
R Roffey
Description
An account of the resource
An oral history interview with Ronald Roffey (b. 1930). He was evacuated and remembers the bombing.
The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-08-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Roffey, R
Transcribed audio recording
A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice.
Transcription
Text transcribed from audio recording or document
AC: This is Andrew Cowley working on behalf of IBCC. I’m interviewing Ronald Roffey at his home in Chislehurst, Kent. We are the only people present. The date is the 30th of August 2018 and it’s five past two. So, Ronald, if I can call you that —
RR: Sure.
AC: If you’d like to start me off about your family life and go on to the bombing and then on to your cousin.
RR: Right. Ok. Well, my full name is Ronald Arthur Roffey. I was born in Charlton, South East London in, on the 2nd of May 1930. I went to school in Charlton, at Junior School. And I was nine when war was declared. Just before that I went to, I was in the infant school at Maryon Park School in Charlton which was my school, and remember vividly the amount of material that was being produced on the problems that were happening in Spain in the Spanish Civil War and as a child it was quite frightening to me to see vans with loudspeakers on and big posters with children and mothers running from being bombed in Spain. So that was my pre, that was how it all happened and then of course we came along. War was declared. I remember going to be fitted with my gas mask in Maryon Park School. My school. And then of course we had the situation with evacuation. I was an evacuee. I didn’t, I wasn’t evacuated with my school. My mother’s sister had already gone to, decided to leave London because of the threat of the bombing and she, she moved to, took temporary accommodation at Torquay in South Devon. And when the situation came about my mother asking her whether I should be evacuated my aunt found my mother and I a private billet in Barton just outside Torquay and we went there during what was known as the Phoney War when we were all expecting to be bombed immediately. And for the first three months of course nothing happened. So I was down in Torquay. I went to, I lived in Barton on the outskirts of Torquay and I went to Barton Hill Road School. And my mother left me there with this, with my new parents but I wasn’t there very long. I had that I wasn’t one of these evacuees that was gone for four and half years and came back. Because I was privately situated I seem to somehow come back to London on two occasions. The first occasion I came back to London on the 7th of September 1940 when London was blitzed quite badly. I travelled all the way from Torquay on the train on my own bearing in mind I was ten. My mother met me at the barrier at Paddington Station and we got the train down to Charlton and my first memories was getting out of Charlton Station and the sky, this was in the evening, the sky was red. It was just red. And when we walked, we lived on the Woolwich Road which ran parallel with the river very close to what is now known as Charlton Riverside and all of the north bank of the, of the Thames was alight and we could see them because we lived on the Woolwich Road. There was nothing between us and the river except the factories on the southern, southern side of the river and we could see the fire, and the fires burning and the whole night sky was red. So I was back. I was back in London. I went back to school in Maryon Park School in classes that had all ages. We went one week mornings, one week afternoons. And I got to the age of eleven and I was, it was decided that I would go to Woolwich Central School. Now, Woolwich Central School was located in Bloomfield Road, Plumstead so of course I had to get the bus from Charlton. The 53 bus from Charlton to school in Plumstead. And during that, during that time I was in London we had an Anderson shelter in the garden that my father put there at the beginning of the war. Dug the hole in the garden and he dug it very deep so he had a little corridor that went down. It wasn’t half in and half out. We had a little corridor that went down with steps and I used to stay in the shelter with my grandmother, my aunt and my mum. Dad was a firewatcher. He went out dealing with the, with the incendiaries etcetera that were falling, and we were, we were in London during those terrible days when we were getting in the shelter at five in the morning, sorry seven in the evening and getting up at five in the morning and we had bombs dropping all around us. Our nearest escape apart from having all the windows and doors blown out of the house. We had a, I lived four doors from a public house called the Horse and Groom on the corner of Charlton Lane and the nearest we had was an unexploded oil bomb that fell in the garden of the pub and our Anderson shelter was adjacent by knocking on the pub door. And I can remember vividly when the all clear went at five, 5 o’clock in the morning of coming out of the shelter, going into the house and sitting down at the table in our below level of the house and a shadow on the window. And it was a policeman with his helmet and he took all the whole window up. I just saw this face with a helmet and he said, ‘Sorry, but you’ve got to get out. You’ve got an unexploded bomb in the garden at the back of your — ’ So we all had to get out. My aunt, my grandmother had a sister that lived in Upper Charlton near Shooters Hill Road near the Charlton Lido. She had a flat there and we all picked up our bits and pieces and we all decamped to her flat there and again we took shelter in Anderson shelters that were dug into the grounds of these flats near Charlton Lido. From then on I, I generated to go, I started to go back to, to Torquay. My next memory is my, my aunt who was still there found me some accommodation at another house in Barton Hill Road. Not the same house as I was at. I was with the elderly couple who mum and I were with, but she found me a house and I went down on my own and I lived in a house that a lady took me in. Her name was Coward. Mr and Mrs Coward and she had three boys of her own and she took me and another lad in. So back to the same house. Back to the same school and I stayed there. I stayed at Barton Hill Road School until [pause] Well, I can’t remember the number of months, but I was due to leave school to go to another school in Babbacombe Downs which was the, was the local Central School. But I didn’t last that long because I was back in London again. I can’t, I can’t time it. It just, I was just back in London. And of course I came back for the flying bombs. The V-1s and the V-2s. I came back to Charlton, went to and of course started to go to Woolwich Central School in Bloomfield Road. Getting the bus. And we had instructions from the headmaster that we were not to travel during air raids, but of course that was impossible with flying bombs because you didn’t know when they were coming. So I get on the number 53 bus and by the time I’d got to Plumstead the warning had gone several times and invariably I always arrived at school during a, [laughs] during a warning but nevertheless we soldiered on. It was full time school there. We then moved on to the V-2s which were a little more lethal, and my experience there was one day we were, by the way it was full time. It wasn’t morning or afternoons. We were back to full time school by this time because we were getting towards the end of the war although we didn’t know that at the time and we were all in the playground and a rocket fell on the Lord Bloomfield which was a pub at the top of, on the estate at the top of the Bloomfield Road. It fell behind. And of course we didn’t know anything except it just went bang and all the glass in the school came out and we were in the yard playing. Fortunately none of us was hurt but we were all, there was glass everywhere. And that was my experience of World War Two. I finished school when I was seventeen. Still at Bloomfield Road.
AC: Did [coughs] did you have any thoughts when you were being bombed about who was doing it and what the British were doing in the way of bombing?
RR: No. Not really. I knew it was the Germans of course. And, but as far as the other things that were going on that never came in to, never came into my thoughts at all. I was more concerned in getting out the shelter, getting to school, coming home and just getting on with my own life. No. I never thought about what we were doing. Except that of course all the flak and the guns and God knows what but no.
AC: Ok. So, perhaps we can go on to your cousin Richard Stanley Bastick.
RR: Yes.
AC: What can you tell me about him.
RR: I was nine when war broke out. My, just very briefly before I do that my, my father was one of ten and it was a very loose family. Lots of families in those days were quite close but my father’s family was quite unclose if that’s the right expression. He kept in touch with some of his brothers and, but he didn’t keep in touch with all of them so not, I didn’t know many of them, but I did know Richard. Richard’s mum. Rose Lilian was the girl in the, my father’s family. My father was the youngest son so I think Rose because she was the only surviving daughter took, I suppose took my dad under her wing because he was her youngest brother and he kept in touch with her. I was nine, Richard was nine years older than me. So of course I never ever met him. I heard about him briefly when my dad got in touch with his sister and she said, ‘Oh, Dick’s gone off,’ Blah blah blah. And it was only what I heard from mum and dad talking at the table because I was just a kid. You know. And I thought oh Richard’s going into the forces. Full stop. So I never really met him. He came, he came within my orbit if you like much later. I, I went to, I was, I met my wife my present wife, my current wife when I was, left school at seventeen and went to work in London. And we married in 1953 and in the few years and I can’t remember exactly but in the few years before we got married we were engaged for three years. So I knew, Joan and I were going together when I was twenty. And it was during that time just before I was twenty and just after I was twenty that my father and mother took me to Richard’s mum Rose where she lived in Belford Grove, Woolwich. And it was on one of those visits that obviously after Dick had been presumed killed, missing and Auntie Rose as I knew her of course was terribly, terribly down. It had a very profound effect on Rose. He was her only child. Most of my father’s family had only children strangely enough and Dick was Auntie Rose’s only son. And his loss really had a profound effect on her. She turned to Ouija boards where we all sat around the table and we all put our fingers on the glass and it told, it told what wanted to ask us questions. That was my first and Joan’s first introduction to that sort of thing but it really was critical for her. And when we visited her and it wasn’t often but when we visited her she had this little picture of Dick on her mantlepiece and she always tried to show me the face of the child that was in his flying jacket. She could see a child’s face in his flying jacket. He was with his crew and in front of his aircraft and she could see this child’s face and it really, whether because he was her only son and I understand from what my mum told me that she’d had several miscarriages I think she’d had trouble having, having a child, and whether that that, all that difficulty registered with her and Dick was a lot closer maybe than a mum and son I don’t know but it really was, had a profound affect and she never shook it off. She and Gordon, her husband we visited her several times and I married in 1953 and I know Rose was, said to me would I, would I like to go and live, buy her house from her because she and Gordon were thinking of moving. And it wasn’t our cup of tea but we, we sat and talked about it and we decided no we didn’t. But she then, they then moved to Battle in Sussex, East Sussex and from there on in Joan and I used to visit her and Gordon at this little bungalow they had in Battle. And we visited them twice a year until Rose died in 1970 and then Gordon died some years later. But that was my connection. All I knew. So it was I never knew Dick, never met him but through his mum I got to know him quite well.
AC: Did she tell you anything about his time in Bomber Command?
RR: No. Not a thing. Except that he was in Bomber Command and that he was lost and his remains were not known. Nothing about Bomber Command at all.
AC: Right. But yet have you found out something about him? About what he did with Bomber Command.
RR: No. I’ve gone through the records. I’ve had, I’ve been in touch with the Air Ministry and so on and I got all his training and so on. Where he went and what he did and so on but only the official stuff. But no. As I say I never met him. I wish I had have done but because of the difference in our ages of course that never took place.
[recording paused]
AC: Right. Perhaps we can go back to when you were in the Nissen hut being bombed.
RR: Oh, when I was in the Anderson shelter.
AC: Sorry. In the Anderson shelter.
RR: Right. The Anderson shelter. Yes. We were in the Anderson shelter as I’ve mentioned. In at seven up at five. And then after a while my grandmother who was of course elderly became quite ill, and because of going out in the cold weather, going underground with an oil stove inside and the fumes of the oil stove and God knows what she became very ill. Doctor used to visit her and go down in to the Anderson shelter to treat her. But when we got her out it was decided that maybe we ought not take shelter below ground but to find somewhere else. My father worked in Siemens. In fact, the Roffey family had several hundred years of service with Siemens. Brothers, sisters, uncles, cousins. But my father worked in Siemens and Siemens had their own air raid shelters built in, just in the precincts of the factory and he arranged for us to go and shelter in these concrete shelters. Reinforced concrete shelters. So we walked along the Woolwich Road in to the works and went down there. And we spent several, several weeks if not longer sheltering in Siemens Brothers’ shelter. Moving on that, that stopped for some reason and I don’t know why but during the V-1 when the V-1s started there was some brick shelters built in Charlton Lane. From the Woolwich Road we lived on the almost on the corner of Charlton Lane, next door to the Horse and Groom which was on the corner. We lived three doors from there and opposite the Horse and Groom across Charlton Lane was Holy Trinity Church. So you had a church on one corner of Charlton Lane that butted on to the Woolwich Road and you had the pub on the other corner. And on the path and halfway in the road there were some brick shelters built. Surface shelters. And during the V-1 raids we used to travel from our three doors away across to the brick shelters next to the church and shelter in there. So [pause] and we, we sheltered in there through the V-1s and the V-2s.
AC: And do you have any memories of your emotions? What you were feeling while you were in the Anderson shelters?
RR: I never for one moment felt frightened. I was more, I was more concerned because my father was a fire watcher and he was doing all sorts of things putting out fires. I was more concerned about his safety then mine. But I never had, felt any emotions whatsoever. It was just something that we had to go to the shelter. The banging and the movement of I never for one moment felt afraid. It was strange but I didn’t.
AC: And how did you pass the time while you were in the shelter?
RR: I just can’t remember.
AC: Yeah.
RR: We used to go in there. Again, it was a community. Being a brick shelter we weren’t the only, it was built with bunks either side with a corridor down the middle and elsan toilets at the end and two bunks and all the families. So I presume, I can’t remember but as children we used to play. And later on in the war we used to, I was very friendly with a boy that lived in the pub. In the Horse and Groom. He was a little younger than me but we became quite friendly and I spent lots of time with him, but no I can’t really remember what we didn’t in the Anderson [laughs] in the brick shelters.
AC: What about in the Anderson shelter? What did you have in there?
RR: The Anderson shelter was it was two bunks either side. We had this oil stove. My father being a sheet metal worker had created, had built a flue with a cowl on the top through the soil so to let the fumes out and so on. So we had a, but then there were other heaters in there and it was covered with blankets. One thing I do remember, come to mind now that I really did get frightened was we went to the brick shelter in the evening but of course the flying bombs, the V-1s were coming over all day and of course I was at home all day. Mum and dad were doing their jobs. My dad was in Siemens, my mother was a shirt, worked at the shirt factory in Woolwich and I was at home with my grandmother and the warning went one day. The warning went and I got grandmother down in the Anderson shelter in the garden and I stood, because there was like a little, it was underground and it came up two steps and up on to the path in the garden and I stood by the door in the garden and I could hear this flying bomb coming and I looked up and it was coming across from Charlton Village. Now, I doubt you know the area. I’m on the Woolwich Road down the riverside. Charlton Village was up the hill and I could see this flying bomb coming towards me. Towards me. It wasn’t actually but that’s what it looked like and suddenly its engine stopped and it started to come down and it started to come down towards me coming down. And that really, I was really very, very frightened. And I was on the point of rushing down and getting in the shelter when I looked again and it turned around. In its fall it turned around and it flew back towards Charlton Village and it fell on the Bugle Horn, the public house in Charlton Village. And if that hadn’t have turned around I’m sure it would have come down but that was my only frightening moment.
AC: And what about damage around where you lived? Were you —
RR: There wasn’t. Apart from windows out, doors out and so on the main damage was because Siemens was a German factory and Lord Haw Haw always said, ‘Siemens, we know where you are.’ That was obviously a prime target for south, for the south of the river where we were. There were bombs. There were no bomb, bomb damage that I could, from the Woolwich Road along through the Woolwich Road but there were a few bombs dropped from the East Street, West Street and Manor Way that ran down towards the river adjacent to Siemens. But no actual, there were no, I couldn’t remember any actual bomb damage in the, in the locality.
AC: And what about any of your neighbours or friends? Have you got any memories of what they have told you, or anything you did together? Maybe with your friends.
RR: I was, it was during this time I was going, my, my grandmother I also, also lived in the house with my mum and dad and my grandmother. My grandmother had a, had another daughter living with us. My mum’s sister who was who was a spinster. And she, whilst my mother was working and dad was working my auntie, Auntie Lou used to take me to school and so on when I was young and so on. She, she used to attend the Holy Trinity Church two doors, two doors away. I, I was encouraged to go with her so I attended Holy Trinity Church. I joined the choir. A lot of the local boys were in the choir. We had an extremely good vicar, Father Hopkins who, he was also the local Scout Master and I was in the 29th Woolwich Scouts through the war at that time and also in the choir. I was confirmed. I think twelve was the age of confirmation. I was confirmed by the Bishop of Woolwich in a church on Plumstead Common. I forget the name but, and then I became a server there and we used to go to services during the Blitz and particularly on Sundays during the day the 11 o’clock Communion service. And if there was a warning we used to go in the crypt. We used to shelter in the crypt. And Father Hopkins was the Scout master and he used to, we used to go off and very, of course Holy Trinity Church is adjacent to Gilbert’s Pit. Now, Gilbert’s Pit was a sand pit that overlooked the Woolwich Road and it was used, it was, it was sand obviously and the sand that was used by the United Glass Bottles Factory in Anchor and Hope Lane. And they initially got all their sand from this because it was Thames sand I suppose. And there was this big open pit and it rose up, a big hole in the middle that lorries used to go in and out. But during the war we used to play on the, not the pit itself but on the outskirts of the pit that was adjacent to the church and we used to have our Scout’s, Scout meetings there and meet other troops and do all sorts of things in the side of this sandpit. That was again was something that took our time during the day. Just thought about that.
[recording paused]
AC: So there’s a couple of more bits you want to tell me about.
RR: Yes. It’s just occurred to me that I mentioned that my dad was a fire watcher. He, along with groups of other man helped the air raid wardens and the people that were the official officials as it were. And these men just went out and reported to the warden’s post and they were directed to either pop sandbags on incendiary bombs that had fallen or go and help out. But there was one particular occasion when an incendiary bomb fell on the church. The church had a short spire on it. The fire brigade attended and if you think of a church the church goes up in steps. So you have the building and then you have the two aisles at the side with the church with a roof and then you have another piece of walling that goes up towards the roof and then on top of the roof is the spire. So you’ve got several steps if you like. Very big steps of course to get up to the spire. The fire brigade came along and attempted to get up on this spire because the incendiary bomb was lodged in the spire and it was setting the spire alight. They ran out of ladders. We, I’ve told you about doors being blown off and windows being out. We rented. My mum rented this property and the owner sent, or the agent sent contractors along to repair our house and their ladders were left outside our house. So they came along to our house, number 594 and took the ladders that belonged to the contractor to supplement their ladders so that they could try and reach the spire. They got up to the, over the first sloping roof up to the wall where the windows of the church below the roof were and then they had to get again on to another slope. And the firemen said it was too dangerous. So the story went. So the story went, and of course the pubs always stayed open, licensing hours didn’t exist in those days. If the boys were out putting out fires well, if they wanted to go in for a pint or whatever they got it. Well, it so happened that my dad was with a couple of blokes and they were in the pub having a drink and they came in and they said the church is alight but the fire brigade said it was too dangerous. So they all had, these guys all had steel helmets, dad had a steel helmet. It was grey, I remember. And he said, ‘Guys, we could get up there all right.’ So my dad actually got up there, right on to the roof and put the fire out. And of course as he was going up he told me afterwards that as he was going up the roof of the church the slates on the roof were coming off and he put his head, his hat down and his steel helmet and they were hitting his steel helmet as he went up. But he did get up there and he put the fire out. That’s one thing I remember. What else? Anything else?
AC: Finding any —
RR: Prompting me brings me all sorts of memories.
AC: What about finding any bits of aircraft or ammunition or —
RR: Oh yeah. Yeah. That was, that was something that we did as boys. Peter, Peter Hills who was my friend who was the licensee’s son in the Horse and Groom and I and another chap Leslie Denton who also lived further along the Woolwich Road about five doors from the church. We all went. We were all choir boys in the church and we used to go out and go in to Maryon Wilson Park. And of course there after the, after the night of shells being fired up and so on there were lots of bits of shrapnel that were left in the park. In the grass between the trees and we used to go out and pick them up and see who had the biggest bit and so. They were a bit nasty. You could cut your fingers on them quite extensively. But yeah that was, that was a pastime particularly at that heavy stage when we were being bombed. Yeah. You’re right, it’s we used to Maryon, never used to go to Maryon Park which was a park that was opposite Maryon Park School on the main road and then ran through because, I don’t know if you know the area but you got Maryon Park, and then you got, you got up the road and you got to Maryon Wilson Park which then runs up to Charlton Village. Maryon Park during the war of course was very flat because it was down, down by the river. It had a lovely putting green that we used to play putting. Thruppence a go. And we got our putting stick from the park keeper and our score card. And we used to do that on Sunday afternoons. And later on in the war they built a shelter in the park. There were tennis courts there as well. Built a shelter in the park. But another thing that used to happen later on in the war when the raids were less frequent they had dances around the band stand. So they had a band in the band stand and everybody congregated. Came in to the park and they used to have their dances and so on. So that was another thing that has come to memory.
AC: So, you, you just want to tell me about the coincidence concerning your Rose’s birthday and your cousin’s.
RR: Yes. Rose was, Rose, Richard’s mum was born on the 20th of February 1890 and it’s curious that Dick was born on the 20th of February [pause] I can remember. 20th of February 1921. And he was lost on the 21st of February 1945. And it strikes me as being very coincidental that those, that that date of the 20th of February seemed ominous for that, for that family. Quite unusual. Just something that came to me when I was going through looking at Dick’s parents. Strange.
AC: Indeed. Well that’s, thank you very much for that. It’s painted a vivid picture and thank you for your memories.
RR: Good. Well, thank you.
[recording paused]
AC: Right. I think you wanted to tell me about your police box.
RR: Right. Yes. If I can just paint the picture of this police box and where it stood. On the corner of, on the corner of Charlton Lane and Woolwich Road there was this public house I’ve mentioned called the Horse and Groom. Next to the Horse and Groom travelling towards Greenwich there was, there was a sweet shop and there was a barber’s shop and then there were the, there were some houses and I was in the second house from the sweet shop so, from the barber’s shop. Jimmy [unclear] Barber’s Shop it was. He had two daughters. Anyway, going on from there the police, the police box was continually manned during this time and it was, this one was continually manned because we had a siren located next to it. So, the siren of course stood on this very tall cylindrical piece of metal that was, went way above the houses with the siren on the top. And because it was continually manned we usually had the same policeman. There were exceptions but, and that policeman was Mr Ashdown, and a very pleasant man and I can see him now. Round face, white moustache and he was very friendly. And outside, and to protect the police box from bomb blasts and so on and it had a blast wall outside the door. And I remember quite distinctly we got quite friendly with the policeman. All the locals did. He got cups of tea and all sorts. And he opened his door his day and showed me how the siren worked. And from memory it was like a box on the wall and it had three sections in colours. It had a red section, a white section in the middle and a green section on the other side. And he got a message. When he got a message that the warning was imminent he had to sound this siren. And he just pulled the, pushed the lever over to the left, into the red section and this siren went off. Now, we’ve all heard what sounds siren sound like from all the films we’ve heard and it’s a wail. But the volume when you’ve got a siren about six feet from the house and we’re two doors away was quite something because everything in the house shook with the sound, with the vibration. Windows and anything that was loose, bits on the table would jump up and down and it was, it was quite an effort. Quite an effort. And of course when the all clear went Mr Ashdown would put the thing over to green and we would get the continuous wail of all clear and again we all shook to death.
AC: You can hear it now.
RR: I can indeed. And I can see Mr Ashdown now too. It’s amazing how many of those faces that even though what, I was ten, eleven going on, still remembering. And I remember him because he was, he was his family and my father was, my mother and father spent a lot of time in the Working Men’s Club which was only about a hundred and fifty yards further on. The Charlton Liberal Club. And I know Mr Ashdown and his family used to come along at weekends on occasions. There used to be dances going on. This was all during the war. A dance would go on or a concert on a Sunday evening. But later on that had to cease. The Concert Hall was converted into a storage area for bombed out people’s furniture and lo and behold a bomb fell on the back of the Concert Hall on the edge of the railway because the railway line from Charlton Station through to the level crossing at Charlton through to Woolwich arsenal the bomb fell at the side of the railway and on the end of the Concert Hall. And it so happened because the Concert Hall was full of people’s furniture, bombed out furniture the people in the club because the Concert Hall ran from the club itself where the bar was and the snooker table, and so on. Because of all that furniture it took a lot of the blast away and the people in there were lucky because they, they got away very lightly. There were no casualties.
AC: Good.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ronald Roffey
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Andrew Cowley
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
IBCC Digital Archive
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-08-30
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
ARoffeyRA180830
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
00:41:06 audio recording
Language
A language of the resource
eng
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Civilian
Royal Air Force
Royal Air Force. Bomber Command
Spatial Coverage
Spatial characteristics of the resource.
Great Britain
England--London
England--Devon
England--Torquay
Temporal Coverage
Temporal characteristics of the resource.
1939
1940
1940-09-07
1945-02-21
Description
An account of the resource
Ronald was born in Charlton, south-east London. He went to Charlton Junior School and was nine when war was declared. He remembered being fitted for a gas mask at his school. His aunt who lived in Torquay found a private billet for him and his mother in Barton, near Torquay. His mother returned to London and in September 1940; during the Blitz Ronald took a train journey back to London, meeting his mother at Paddington station. On their way back to Charlton the sky was red and all of the north bank of the Thames was alight. Ronald’s father worked for Siemens. He was also a fire warden and on one occasion the family had to evacuate their house when an unexploded bomb was found next to their garden. They went to stay with grandmother’s sister in her flat near Charlton lido. Ronald went back to Torquay before returning to London when the V-1s and V-2s were being dropped. At eleven he went to Woolwich Central School. He remembers a bomb falling on a pub behind the school. All of the school windows were broken but fortunately the children were in the playground and no one was hurt. Ronald joined the Boy Scouts and Holy Trinity Church choir. After he was confirmed at 12, he became a server. There was one occasion when an incendiary bomb fell on the church, lodging in the spire and it was his father who climbed up and put out the fire. Ronald left school at 17 and went to work in London. There he met his future wife Joan and they married in 1953. When Ronald was about 20 he heard that his cousin Richard, who flew in Bomber Command, had been reported missing, presumed dead.
Contributor
An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource
Sue Smith
Julie Williams
Conforms To
An established standard to which the described resource conforms.
Pending revision of OH transcription
bombing
childhood in wartime
evacuation
home front
shelter
V-1
V-2
V-weapon