Interview with John Monaghan

Title

Interview with John Monaghan

Description

John Monaghan was born in Blackpool but grew up in the Manchester area. He played coronet in the Home Guard Band. He volunteered for the RAF and trained as a wireless operator. He was posted to 166 Squadron at RAF Kirmington. Amongst his operations was the bombing of Berchtesgaden in the final days of the war when they discovered they still had a bomb onboard so they bombed a lake on their way home. He also took part in Operation Manna and Operation Exodus.

Creator

Date

2024-08-19

Language

Type

Format

00:58:30 Audio Recording

Rights

This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.

Identifier

AMonaghanJ240819

Transcription

SP: So, this is Suzanne Pescott and I’m interviewing John Monaghan today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive. We are at John’s home and it’s the 19th of August 2024. Also present is Andy’s, Andy, John’s son. So, first of all thank you John for agreeing to talk to me today.
JM: Ok.
SP: So John, can you tell me a little bit about your early life before the war? What you did.
JM: Oh, heck [laughs] dear me. Well, I suppose I had a normal childhood if you can call things normal in those days. I was born seven years after the end of the Great War.
SP: Right.
JM: Sounds boring to record doesn’t it? [laughs]
JM: No, that’s —
SP: But I had a normal childhood. I, I was brother to a sister. My sister was two years older than me. We just grew up together as best we could in those quite difficult economic times really. The Depression years. But we had good, we had good parents. Just a normal [pause] normal upbringing really.
SP: And where was that? Where were you as a child?
JM: That was in Levenshulme in Manchester. I was born in Blackpool but I suppose dad was unemployed when he came out of the Army. I think, I think we, we lived on a fairground for a very short time. I was only tiny. But he came to Manchester. Then he moved to Manchester because there was some work here I suppose. He trained after the Army as, as a carpenter and of course there was a lot of building going on at that time in Manchester. We came and got a house in Manchester in, I think it was 1928’ish. Yeah. It must have been. And then we just grew up. Normal children. Nothing, nothing extraordinary really. We went to schools. I finished up at a Junior Technical School and took the technical route. My sister went to a High School. She did very well at school. She went, of course the war came along then. The war had started I think just about when I started Technical School and I did a couple of years there. Then of course left school at fifteen. Went immediately into war work and did war work for a couple of years or so more. I was trained as a switchgear wireman which was wiring electrical panels and things. Important work of course. I volunteered for the RAF in, when I was seventeen. Seventeen and a half perhaps. But I got my number and everything but I didn’t actually join up shall we say until, until I was eighteen. They wouldn’t take me until I was eighteen. So, of course when eighteen came along off I went down to, down to London as a very new aircrew sprog as we called ourselves and went through training as a wireless operator. I volunteered as a wireless operator at the, the post where I signed on, where I volunteered because with being in electrical work I thought it was logical that I should take up some sort of electrical work which I did. I was probably one of the few people that went as an aircrew member chosen and actually became that chosen member and then went through a series of training then. Different places. Different camps. Finished up at Radio School in Hereford. That was, must have been a couple of years there. Possibly. I forget. What else happened there? Nothing much. No, I came from there, carried on from Radio School of course. Then to early flying to flying up in, gosh what was the place? [pause] I can’t think of the name of the place now. It was Advanced Flying School anyway on Ansons. I did that for a bit and then passed on then to, I think we went on to, oh no. From there we must have been trained enough to be looked on as wireless operators at least because I think I was posted down to of all places an RAF station down in Oxfordshire called Wing which was rather appropriate. But anyway it seems that hundreds of other half trained aircrew had been posted to Wing where they were left to themselves in this huge hall to sort themselves out into crews because all the, all the people that had assembled there were different trades. I was wireless operator. There were flight engineers there. Pilots there. Air gunners. Mid-upper and rear gunners and bomb aimers were all there. They just milled around and picked each other out willy nilly and that, and that’s how crews were formed. Seems crazy really when you think about it but it was purely random. As I say I ended up with Bert. Bert. Gosh, Bert. He was from [pause] God. Westhoughton I think it was. Near Wigan anyway. Somewhere near Wigan and I was from Manchester of course and we teamed up with five other crewmembers all of whom were Canadian. So we finished up as a complete seven man crew. Five Canadians and us two Englishmen and from there we went to what do they call it now? Advanced Training College. I forget. I forget the initials but it was on Wellingtons and we did some, a lot of sort of semi-operational ops on Wellingtons. We did a lot of all training of course but I remember we did a lot of Window raids over the North Sea which was quite exciting I suppose. From there we finished up to Advanced Flying School. That was it. On, on Wellingtons. Yes. By Wellingtons at a place called [pause] near Doncaster. Topcliffe would it be? No. Not Topcliffe. I forget the name. Gosh. I shouldn’t forget.
SP: That’s ok.
JM: Anyway we finished up final training at this Operational Training Unit and from there we were posted to various squadrons all over 1 Group in Lincolnshire. We finished up at a station called Kirmington which was rather nice. An odd thing about Kirmington I remember was that the aerodrome was right bang slap in the middle of the village. It wasn’t on the outskirts or half a mile away. The village streets actually ran through, more or less through the airfield. A peculiar set up really. And that’s it. We did our ops from there. Kirmington on 166 Squadron. That was it. What then? Did ops. Finished up with the raid on Berchtesgaden. Hitler’s hide out. A glorious morning. That was in April I remember. A beautiful morning. Sunshine. Finished that of course then the war finished days, a couple of days after. More. More because after that we did the, did the food dropping raids. Manna. That was I think four or five. Maybe more. Four or five trips to Holland. Rotterdam and the Hague. I remember dropping food parcels. When that finished of course the war had finally finished then and what happened then? Oh, we were sort of in limbo then for a while because what were we up to then? The war finished. Not a lot of celebration as far as we were concerned because we were more or less sidelined on to getting ready to go to Japan supposedly. Sort them out. Of course we’d not quite started training on Lincolns. But anyway as I say the war finished completely in August thanks to the Yanks and then we really were at a loose end because I remember we were sent on indefinite leave from certainly from one station up in Yorkshire then and they were so long. Weeks and weeks at a time it turned out. I I got myself a job [laughs] on the strength of it on and actually worked [pause] worked on plant maintenance or something. I forget now. Until, until I was demobbed of course. Demobbed at some place near Blackpool. Again, I can’t remember the name of it but we came out complete with a double-breasted suit and a raincoat and a trilby. Yes. Everybody [laughs] we looked as much in uniform after the war as we had during the war I think. All dressed the same. So that was that. Got myself a job in Civvy Street. I was a trainee draughtsman. That lasted a long time. What else? We had one or two squadron reunions during the years after that. After we’d been demobbed. Oh gosh, I can’t remember. Oh, Jim Wright. That was it. Jim Wright organized all that. A chap from Liverpool. And we went to these reunions. Back to Kirmington actually. Yes. That was, they finished eventually but by this time I was a fully trained draughtsman, engineering draughtsman and life just took, took its course. Transferred myself down to London for a spell in ’50, ’51, ’52, was it? At the time of the, the Great London Smog. I think it was ’51. I was there for about twelve months I think. By that time I had got myself a girlfriend. We got married in 1953 and started married life. Married life. That progressed quite normally. Nothing particularly outstanding. My wife bore three children. Two boys and a girl. Steven the eldest, Andrew is the middle one and a daughter, Elsa. They’re all very good to me of course. Elsa particularly. Andrew’s very good of course. And that’s it. I joined [pause] oh, before the war I’d, I’d learned to play the coronet and I played in a local band up until, oh that was it. I’d forgotten that. I joined the Home Guard in, must have been ’38/39 and at that time we formed a brass band. No, a military band because they were clarinet players. Yes, we joined a band. A local Manchester Home Guard band. I think it, we’d formed the only Home Guard band in the country. It was so, so unusual. Didn’t do very much square bashing in the Home Guard. We had been issued with uniform of course and those [unclear] things. Everything. That was that. A lot finished up. Oh, and then of course I went through the Air Force route. But as I say the, we came out of the war and [pause] I’m getting a bit confused now. Soon after we were married I took up brass banding again and since then I’ve always been playing a brass instrument. Played. Played euphonium for a while and finished up locally here in Poynton playing an E Flat base. I played that for about twenty years but age caught up with me not long ago. A couple of years ago and I gave that up. So here I am now spending most of my time pottering about. Luckily I’m still more or less active. I’m getting less and less active as time goes on. I can tell that. And here we are. That’s just about the end of it I think. Well, it’s the end of the story. Not quite because of course what I’m really waiting for is to become a [centegenarian]. Oh, dear me.
SP: So, that’s not long off is it? How many years?
JM: I can’t be. It’s next March.
SP: Next March.
JM: Yeah.
SP: So yeah.
JM: Yeah, so there we are.
SP: That’s the next stage. Yeah.
JM: I live. I live alone. Perfectly happy. All self-contained. I’m a bit of an introverted sort of a person anyway. I don’t, don’t make a fuss about many things. No things. I’m very philosophical and just take things as they come. So there we go. That’s more or less the end of it.
SP: That’s a lovely run through of all of your —
JM: Is it?
SP: Life through your career.
JM: Gosh.
SP: And obviously on there.
JM: There’s probably all sorts of things —
SP: Yeah.
JM: I can still remember but —
SP: I’m going to go back.
JM: It comes in bits and drabs you know but that’s mostly it basically I suppose.
SP: Yeah. So if you don’t mind we’ll go back over a few of those details to get a little bit more information.
JM: Yeah. Sure. Let me have a drink first.
SP: Yeah, you have a drink. You get that first. There. A couple of things on there. You talked about your, your crew. The five Canadians and two from Britain which was yourself and Bert. Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
SP: Do —
JM: His name was Cyril.
SP: Oh right.
JM: Yes.
SP: Yeah.
JM: His name was Cyril. Cyril Burton.
SP: Right.
JM: But —
SP: That was his nickname.
JM: Everybody called him Bert. He answered to Bert always. Not to Cyril.
SP: There weren’t many people on a crew that actually used their own names. So, were there any other nicknames on the crew?
JM: No.
SP: Oh right. Yeah.
JM: Only Bert.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Yeah.
SP: Yeah, Bert was really.
JM: There was Bill.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Oh, and Blackie. Blackie. His name was Glen Black.
SP: Right. And what —
JM: We called him Blackie [laughs]
SP: What did, what was Glen’s role on the —
JM: Pardon?
SP: What was Glen’s role in the crew?
JM: Glen was the mid-upper gunner but we called him Blackie.
SP: He was Blackie. Yeah.
JM: He, funnily enough he was, he must have been a farmer I think because he came from what you’d imagine was a little one horse town out in the middle of the Prairie somewhere because I wrote to him once. I thought I’d try and contact him and all I had was Glen Black, Irricana, that’s the name of the village or whatever it was. I R R I C A N A. Irricana, Canada. Now, how about that for a postal address? Anyway, it must have got there. The others. What happened? Bill. Bill Hunt. Was it Hunt? It looks like it was Hunt. He was the rear gunner. Bill. Bill. Was it Hunt? Bill, anyway. We called him Bill.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Bill, Blackie, Trev. Trevor Haines was the pilot. Trev. Jack. Jack Masters. Jack, he was the navigator. Bert of course was the flight engineer and Chris. Christopher. He was the bomb aimer. What was his name? Chris [pause] do you know I can’t remember his surname. It’s in the logbook I think. I can find it. Chris.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Some of them were really, there was no real outrageous nicknames at all. That was just all the crew just by their first name more or less.
SP: And everything gelled. It’s amazing to me when crewing up that people tend to crew up and they stick with that crew and it just works.
JM: Oh yes. Yeah.
SP: Which is amazing. It’s as it all still —
JM: It worked fine. Yeah.
SP: Yeah. And they all went to —
JM: It worked fine.
SP: Yeah. You say you did some training on Wellingtons.
JM: Yes.
SP: And then you talked about Window. So, do you want to talk a little bit more about your trips dropping Window? What that involved.
JM: Oh. Nothing to them really. We just sat there and put these strips of aluminium foil through. You just pushed them through and that was it. There was nothing. Nothing really energetic about it at all.
SP: So which routes did you do? Was it anywhere in particular you went to to do the —
JM: Oh, there were all sorts of dog leg things. Over the North Sea finally and a lot of probably inland flying as well. Night flying. It was just operational training.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. But certainly some we did over the North Sea but could have been quite hairy I suppose but they weren’t.
SP: So for anyone who hears your story they may not be aware what Window was used for. So do you want to say about that?.
JM: It was to confuse the enemy radar.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Yeah. Oh yes. We did a lot of that. Window shopping.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Window shipping. Yes.
SP: So, and what did you find it like flying in the Wellingtons because they were a —
JM: Oh quite nice. Quite a good aircraft, you know [laughs] we climbed up a stepladder at the front I remember. At the nose. But they were alright. Much the same position as the, in the Lancaster. Yes, it was sort of in between the wings. But I remember on one occasion we had it was my job to fire the verey pistol. There was a verey pistol storage in the roof of the Wellington. It was for shooting a flare off if ever and I was there. I shot this flare off all night. Off it went easy enough but it had somehow set fire to the insulation around, around the storage and it was smouldering away. Anyway, we had an emergency landing because of that. It wasn’t flames. It was just smouldering smoke so we landed at, I always remember it it was a Mosquito station called Upwood. Down south somewhere. Yes. Upwood. It was the first time I’d ever seen a Mosquito. Lovely aircraft.
SP: I believe they gave you a little nickname because of that event did they?
JM: Oh they did. No. They would have done but my sister at that time had knitted me a little skull cap and she somehow worked into the band around the headband, flames. Nobody ever called me Flames though thank goodness. In fact, I don’t think I ever wore that little skull cap.
SP: A good memory of the event though.
JM: Oh, I remember the helmet with flames. Yes. Oh, she was, she was an accomplished knitter. Mind you she had lots of time because she, she became a nurse. I went away from home. Nurses went away for training in those days. She was trained at, I think at that time it was called Manchester Jewish Hospital. A very rigid training there but she did well there. Yes. But as I say she may have well had plenty of time to knit on nights possibly. I don’t know. But she made this sort of Fair Isle type of skull cap for me to wear under my helmet. But yeah she worked flames across the front. But I wasn’t called Flames. No. It was just a normal, friendly bunch I suppose.
SP: And you did a trip to Berchtesgaden. To the Eagle’s Nest.
JM: Oh that. I think that was the last one. The last.
SP: Yeah.
JM: The last bombing raid.
SP: Yeah. You said it was nice weather on that.
JM: Oh beautiful.
SP: Yeah.
JM: It was April. It’s in the logbook there somewhere. But I remember it was beautiful. Oh that was another thing I’ve just remembered too [laughs] I tell you these things keep flitting back. On that particular raid, Berchtesgaden, lots of aircraft took place on that but we bombed and came away. But on the way back, it was deep in Southern Germany of course a long way away but on the way back over Southern Germany the bomb aimer discovered that we’d still got a hangup. A bomb had, I think it was a big one. Two thousand. I think it was a two thousand. It was a big bomb anyway. Two thousand pounder probably hung up. It was a bit hairy. But it was my job also because of my position in the Lancaster on the floor, on the right hand side of the floor just underneath just by the flight engineer’s panel there was a panel in the floor that had a lot of little sort of lift up switches and it was my job to, and in the case of a hangup on the bomb aimer’s instructions of course to pull a certain numbered little handle on the floor which I doubt he, and we [laughs] we bombed a lake in Southern Germany on the way back. And it was my job to when he shouted out, ‘Bomb,’ I had to pull this little lever up. It was only a tiny little lever. Pull it up with my finger and away it went. So in the event as I say we bombed not only Berchtesgaden but we bombed this German lake as well. It was called Lake Würm. W U R M. I’ve looked it up since. A difficult place to find but it was there. It is. It’s there. But I think I don’t know why it’s called a lake because from what I can see from the quite small-scale map actually is that there is an inlet and the river outlet to this Lake Würm. It’s all different now of course. Many many years after that particular time. Nineteen. Nineteen. Just a minute. Yes. 1945 when we bombed —
SP: So did —
JM: Lake Würm.
SP: Did they tell you if you had a hangup where to drop the bombs or was it just —
JM: Oh no. The bomb —
SP: The pilot decision.
JM: Oh no. It was just the bomb, the bomb aimer. Well, he, the pilot and he —
SP: Yeah.
JM: And the bomb aimer must have —
SP: Decided.
JM: There was the two of them looking for somewhere to drop it you see.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Could have been anywhere I suppose but this lake had loomed up in the bombsight and bang. Down it went.
SP: Yeah. So looking for somewhere safe to —
JM: I didn’t see it explode but it went anyway. That was the main thing and we just came back then of course. Quite, quite thankfully. Yeah.
SP: And what about other operations because you did quite a few operations as well. Are there any other?
JM: Oh, not all that many really. I mean compared with some people but there were. There were operations.
SP: Any that stood out that were particularly memorable?
JM: I think. I think I booked in for I don’t know it’s in my logbook there but there’s more than shows in there. I think there’s about fourteen altogether. I think there’s fourteen.
SP: Which is a lot.
JM: Hmmn?
SP: That’s a lot. That’s still quite a lot of —
JM: Yeah.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Let’s have a look. They’re all there.
SP: Do you want to, yeah have a look in your logbook and see if there are any that stand out that you’ve got any particular memories of.
JM: There’s the crew. Where are we?
SP: So, yeah. John has just handed me a picture of the crew which we’ll put on with the recording. You’re just going through your logbook there to see what —
JM: I only wish now that I was more proficient and more sensible when it came to log keeping as I was then. You know it didn’t mean much to me in those days and I just filled it in any old how [pause – pages turning] Oh dear. It’s all here.
SP: Yeah. I think earlier on in your logbook is all about your training isn’t it that you were talking about.
JM: Yes, it was.
SP: And then, yeah.
JM: And the names of the places of course I should have looked at before. Raid. Oh, there they are. Raids. They were raids here from [pause] they called them raids. Names. They were probably the ones on Wellingtons.
SP: Yeah. Early on your, your logbook. Don’t worry. We can, we can go —
JM: Raids. High level bombing.
SP: Yeah.
JM: What have I done with my glasses?
SP: Oh, you lost your glasses.
JM: Oh here.
SP: There you go.
JM: I sometimes forget when they’re they’re up here and I go looking all around for them. High level bombing. That’s the east [pause – pages turning] Raid. Raid. 92 stroke 20 those are the ones probably over the North Sea.
SP: The ones in the early part of your logbook would be your training. Yeah.
JM: The proper destinations.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Where are we? Oh dear.
SP: Your raids would have been in about March. February, March was it? Nineteen —
JM: Dortmund. Here we are.
SP: ’45.
JM: Dortmund.
SP: Dortmund. Yeah.
JM: Herne. H E R N E. Herne, probably in the, in the [pause] what’s the name of the industrial area?
SP: Around the Ruhr.
JM: The Ruhr.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Hildesheim. Hanover. Hanover. Nordhausen. Potsdam. That was Berlin. Heligoland. That was nasty. Bremen. Oh, here we are. Home. Yes, here we are. Berchtesgaden. April the 25th. Just prior to that in [coughs] in April the 11th I notice that was in the middle of two raids. Nordhausen on the 3rd and Potsdam on the 14th. In the middle of those two was practice supply dropping. Gosh. Fancy. I got it here again. That was on the 11th and I’ve got another one here. Practice supply dropping the 24th.
SP: Was that getting you ready for Operation Manna?
JM: That was Berchtesgaden. Between Bremen and Brunswick. Oh, I wonder if they called those ops. I wouldn’t have called them ops. Anyway, there they are. But after Berchtesgaden came April the 29th. The Hague.
SP: Right.
JM: So that was the first of the drops. Yes. May the 1st Rotterdam. May the 2nd Rotterdam. May the 3rd Rotterdam. The 4th Rotterdam. The 7th Rotterdam. Good grief. And here we are of course May the 8th Victory in Europe. I’ve put May the 10th we flew to Brussels to bring back prisoners of war. Two trips there. Exodus. Yeah. Yes, we went out to in the Lancasters to Brussels and picked up twenty prisoners of war who had been brought to Brussels as a rally point. They’d been brought from prisoners of war camps and we filled each Lancaster with twenty. Just twenty. It doesn’t seem much but each one brought twenty prisoners of war back.
SP: Where did you bring them back to?
JM: [unclear]
SP: I don’t think that would be in the logbook. I think they brought them back to a central location didn’t they? To, yeah.
JM: They might have.
SP: Yeah.
JM: All I’ve got there is Exodus, Brussels. B58. What on earth could that mean? B58. I’ve never noticed that before. It certainly wasn’t a destination.
SP: So what condition were the POWs in when you collected them?
JM: Were they in?
SP: What condition were they in? Were they —
JM: Oh, reasonable.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Well, did look reasonable to us anyway.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Although, they weren’t injured or anything like that. They were just glad to get back.
SP: Yeah.
JM: I don’t recall any injured at all. They climbed in and we flew back. SB on that. What could that possibly mean?
SP: You talked a lot about Operation Manna flights. So you told me the dates. Do you want to tell me a little about your Operation Manna flights when you dropped them the food? Was it in Rotterdam?
JM: Oh, well nothing much to them really. We just flew at low level and dropped them.
SP: So what sort of level were you flying at? Do you know?
JM: Probably, I’m guessing it might have been three, maybe might have been two. I’ve got some photographs.
SP: We’ll have a look at those in a minute.
JM: Yes, ok.
SP: We’ll record and take some photos. Yeah.
JM: Yeah. I’ve got some photographs.
SP: So, two or three hundred.
JM: That actually show people on the ground and the aircraft. Yeah.
SP: So it was —
JM: I’d forgotten that.
SP: Yeah. So two or three hundred feet is what you were flying at.
JM: I would think so.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Probably less.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Thinking about it.
SP: And do you know what’s supplies you were dropping?
JM: Well, I’ve only learned later. Quite recently at this medal ceremony.
SP: Yeah.
JM: The sort of things that we were dropping. Basic food things. Salt and flour. Bread sometimes I suppose. I don’t know. We had nothing to with that. We just collected sacks of food and supplies of whatever they were short of but also I remember on all of those by this time we had learned what we were doing and why we were doing it to these starving Dutch people. But on all of those trips I remember certainly all our crew if not all the crews on the station at Kirmington maybe more, probably more but if the, if our crew was typical what we all did was at that time all crews when they went on any trip at all were given, I think we were given a little pack of something but we all had a block of chocolate. Plain chocolate. It was Terry’s Empire Chocolate I remember in a sort of parchment coloured wrapper. Terry’s Empire Chocolate. It wasn’t very nice. It was plain but all the crew got the, saved their chocolate rations and when we were throwing, throwing the food out we threw the chocolate out as well. We all did that. Yeah. So —
SP: That would have been very welcome from the children.
JM: Well, of course it would but I remember doing that. I remember the particular chocolate bars. Terry’s Empire Chocolate. Yeah.
SP: And for that I believe you were recently awarded the medal from the Dutch.
JM: Well, yes.
SP: For those trips.
JM: For all operation really. Not for the chocolate [laughs]
SP: No. No [laughs] the operations, yeah.
JM: Yes. Yes, that was quite a surprise really because as I say it was just, just a sort of a routine flight as far as we were concerned but the war hadn’t finished then of course. We were only, we were only able to do this Operation Manna because the, I mean we were still at war then. Sort of tailing off but we were still at war. The local commanders, the German, the British commanders had come to some sort of agreement. Some sort of truce. So we’d gone relying on this more or less word of mouth truce which turned out to be alright and we bombed with all the food successfully. But I remember as we flew, as we flew out and dropped and flew out still at low level I remember peering down. I could see through the windows. Peering down and I saw my first Germans. German soldiers, about five of them were sat all around this big anti-aircraft gun and as we passed over I could see them clearly. You know. I thought well that’s the first time I’ve ever seen a German. Yeah.
SP: Very low down weren’t you so —
JM: Oh yeah. We were. Yeah. I don’t suppose we flew much higher to come back because it was all over then. We dropped the food and come back. Yeah. How long did it take? Yes, these Germans. I suppose they were as surprised to see me as I was them but they didn’t fire at us. That was the main thing. Oh, yes. There’s another name I remember [pause] Bensberg. Bensberg.
SP: You talked about Heligoland earlier. You said that was quite a hard trip. One of your operations.
JM: Oh, it would have been. Heligoland. I don’t remember a lot about it really.
SP: Yeah. I think it was quite fiercely defended around that area wasn’t it? Yeah.
JM: I think it must have been.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Heligoland.
SP: So did you get —
JM: It was well defended. Yes, it was.
SP: Did you see much flak and that as you were flying over?
JM: Oh, we saw plenty of flak at night.
SP: Yeah.
JM: And day.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Particularly day. Yeah. Some. Yeah, there are some nasty memories really from daytime raids. In the wireless operator’s position we had quite a biggish window immediately on the left-hand side and one on the right-hand side as well. We were right in the middle of the two wings and if I stood up there was a big astrodome. A plastic astrodome which was really there for navigation reasons you know so we could take sextant readings but I could stand up there and just have a look around you know. Like that. Daft as you like. Stood there. But as I say I saw some nasty things in daylight raids. All the flak at night was, yeah it was pretty fierce on occasion. But the daytime ones were heck I saw an aircraft, a Lancaster sort of going down and twisting around, smoke coming out. Another, another one I saw might have been a different raid but daytime saw and counted four parachutes come out at the back and then the aircraft go down. Yeah. Oh yes. It was, it was bombing and anti-aircraft. No mistake about that. They didn’t like us coming [laughs]
SP: So, did you find the day flights —
JM: Pardon?
SP: Did you find the day flights then a lot worse than the night flights?
JM: Well, we could see what was going on I suppose.
SP: Right.
JM: Night time was, had its own peculiarities. Searchlights all over the place and bomb explosions, you know. You could see the black and smoke and orange and red burst all over the place. Yes. And as well on those night time raids we had the benefit of Pathfinders. They were particularly good Lancaster crews, well experienced that, that were formed to make preliminary flights to the target not too early of course and pinpoint the target with yellow, with green or red markers. Flare markers on the ground. Dropped flares because the target was lit, isolated by flares. Red or green. And then as we came along in our hordes the Pathfinders simply told us which markers to bomb on. To aim on. So if they told us aim on the red the bomb aimer would, ‘Left. Left. Left.’ Aim on the red and bang. Away they’d go. All on the right. All on the left on the red. Yeah. So whether that helped or not I suppose it did. It must have worked. Yes. The Pathfinder Force. They were the elite bomber crews and they dropped targets for the rest of the raid to bomb. Oh, yes. Funny. Dear me. Yeah. Yeah.
SP: So you talked about the searchlights. Did you ever get caught in those? Were you —
JM: No. No. Luckily. We could certainly see them.
SP: Yeah.
JM: Flashing by. I mean they didn’t, didn’t follow an aircraft. They just rolled about randomly until they did land on one and then it was, it was, that was too bad then for the one it had caught because they really got hammered, you know because they could stay on it then you know and bomb. Threw everything at it. Yes. It was [pause] it must have been a nasty experience to get caught by searchlights. I remember we did come back one, from one raid somewhere, daylight with a tiny little bit of a flak hole in the, in one of the elevator tails. Nothing much. As big as your hand. It was nothing but it was a bit of a flak. We must have floated by and caught it. Nothing really but other than that we were, we were quite safe from all sorts of nasty things.
SP: So when you got back then the plane would go to the ground crew would it for them to repair?
JM: Oh, yes. They’d go in for maintenance and repair. Yeah. Yeah.
SP: So did you tend to have the same Lancaster? One in particular.
JM: Well, we tended to. We didn’t, I mean we weren’t allocated any particular one but just grabbed one. We had one that that we like rather a lot we could tell. It was AS-Jig. J for John. Yes. AS-Jig. We had that one for three or four times I think. Oh, yes. Here we are J too. J too. But two or three. Yeah. J. J. J. J. J. Could you believe it? Yeah. Yes. We did. We had it fairly frequently [laughs] Would you believe it?
SP: Some crews have mentioned they’d have the same plane and if they had another plane they were always a bit nervous. They liked the same plane. They liked the same one.
JM: Oh, I don’t know. We never bothered.
SP: Yeah.
JM: We had all sorts.
SP: Yeah.
JM: AM ASM-Mike. J2 L Q S K M Q J M N. Oh, we had all sorts.
SP: So having a lot of different planes before you got to keep getting J most likely. You didn’t have that same —
JM: Well, I don’t —
SP: Worry as others. Yeah.
JM: I think it was just random.
SP: Yeah.
JM: But there certainly seems to be a lot of Js there. I never noticed that before. I knew there were one or two but there’s just as many obscure ones. We’ve got A2, F C D. Yeah. T B2. Oh, we picked any old one.
SP: That came up, yeah.
JM: That just came along.
SP: So you did all your operations and there were quite a few of those. And then you did Operation Manna and then Exodus with your POWs so —
JM: Yes.
SP: So then was it demob did you say? Did you go to anywhere in particular for that?
JM: Oh yes. I went to Training Command and I was posted to Training Command as an instructor. Oh, dear me. To a place called Topcliffe. But this was after the war. Yes. I was posted to eventually to the Isle of Man. A place called Jurby. But I was only there three or four days I think but everything was in a bit of a turmoil in those days as regards what to do with all the surplus aircrew. You know, what the heck do we do with them? You know, there was literally thousands I suppose. Aircrew can’t be employed. Nothing to do with them so you know as I say early, as I said earlier on we were given indefinite leave which was quite nice for us. Came home and did whatever we did. As I say I got a job and yeah it was fine.
SP: You said that job was a trainee draughtsman.
JM: Oh no. That was after.
SP: Oh, right.
JM: After all this. That was after I was demobbed I became a draughtsman.
SP: You spent some time after the war in London. Was that with your job then when you went?
JM: Pardon?
SP: You said you spent some time in London after the war.
JM: Oh yes. Only about a year I think if that. It was only because I suppose a change of jobs I suppose. Just for no reason really. Oh, a friend of mind had gone down. Yeah. So, a very close friend of mine, Eddie he was on the next drawing board to me. You know, spent a lot of time together. He was a great mentor of mine. Yes. I learned a lot from Eddie.
SP: And that’s where you met your wife as well. In London was it?
JM: It was. Yes. We did. At the drawing office.
SP: Your wife’s name is?
JM: It was —
SP: Or was.
JM: Pardon?
SP: Your wife’s name was?
JM: Margaret.
SP: Margaret. You met Margaret there.
JM: Yeah. She was a tracer. In those days the drawing procedure was for the draughtsman to draw the drawings in pencil and then they’d go to the tracer to be traced on to tracing cloth in Indian ink you know.
SP: Yeah.
JM: So she was a tracer. Yeah, that’s how I met her. Yes. Had quite a long courtship I remember. Lasted about six or seven years [laughs] oh dear me. Broke up once for a spell. Yeah. Quite a good spell really. Yes.
SP: Then eventually married and three children.
JM: Yes. Yes. We came back together again eventually. Got married soon after. Yes.
SP: And during that time you are saying you did a lot of playing in bands. Different instruments. Yeah.
JM: Oh yes. Did a lot of, yeah.
SP: Yeah.
JM: I also learned to drive. Bought my first MG while I was single. What else? I did a lot of walking. Country walking. Youth hostelling in the Lake District particularly. North Wales. Mountains. Yes. That was during the time between being demobbed and getting married [unclear – static interference during recording]
SP: And then you got to quite big bands and you played with them.
JM: Yeah. Wingates. Wingates Temperance Band was the full time. It was anything but temperance believe me but a very very old established band. Well known and highly regarded. But yeah. Who did I play with? I played with Wingate’s. I’ve done massed bands with Wingates, Faireys, Gordons. All top bands you know.
SP: Did you play at any special events? Any special locations?
JM: No [pause] Well, I can’t remember really. We played the Bellevue countless times in competitions. Concerts of course. High class concerts. As I say we competed in the town. In the Albert Hall.
SP: That must have been special. At the Albert Hall.
JM: Yeah. It was. Oh, it was special that. Yeah. You go down for a couple of days I think. Two nights. Yes. That’s quite a do. But yes. Yes, I’ve spent a lot of time banding. Well, that’s been my main pleasure really.
SP: And it’s not that long ago that you gave up did you say?
JM: Well, probably about I should think about two years. Possibly three now.
SP: So, in bands until you were ninety seven.
JM: Pardon?
SP: So, in the bands until you were ninety six, ninety seven.
JM: Ninety eight actually.
SP: Wow. Yeah. Ninety eight. Yeah.
JM: Ninety eight. Ninety eight when I gave up. So, two year, a good two years ago.
SP: Excellent. There we are. So, that’s a fantastic summary of your war years and your life before and after. Is there anything else important that you think you’ve got to mention or add to the interview?
JM: I’ll probably think of it when you’ve gone but it’s more or less the bulk of what’s happened to me I think.
SP: On behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre I’d like to thank you John for taking the time today to record all those really important memories of your important life. A real honour to meet you and a huge thank you for everything you did.
SP: Oh, that’s fine. I bet it sounds a bit funny on replay [laughs] Oh, dear me.

Collection

Citation

Susanne Pescott, “Interview with John Monaghan,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed February 12, 2025, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/51355.

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