Leonard Cheshire part of morality of force
Title
Leonard Cheshire part of morality of force
Description
Last part of a speech by Leonard Cheshire talking on the morality of force at the RAF Staff College, Bracknell. Mentions use of torture, duty at end of war. Conclusion, necessity for professionalism, fight war in quickest and most effective way possible and the place of the human family and nationalism.
Creator
Date
1978-02-23
Coverage
Language
Type
Format
Audio recording 00:04:32
Publisher
Rights
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Identifier
SCheshireGL72021v20001-0004, SCheshireGL72021v20001-0004-Transcript
Transcription
Leonard Cheshire Resonate Project
File Name: 'RAF SC 23.2.78. Morality' GLC talking on the morality of force at the RAF Staff College, Bracknell
Preservation Copy: 23/2/78
Duration: 4mis 32seconds
Transcription Date: 08/4/20
Archive Number: AV-S_002_3 Side 2
[Start of Transcription]
00:00 Leonard Cheshire: If I'm forced to express an opinion, which I suppose - to be honest - I ought to do, I would say, as a general rule, torture of the kind that literally degrades another person's dignity should not be used. However, there could be an exceptional situation where the information is of such importance and where so many lives depend upon it that, in that situation, perhaps you are justified in using extreme physical pressure on him. it's a horrible subject to have to discuss but we have to be realists and, in the world that we live in, it may be that one of you will be faced with that situation.
00:58 Finally, our duty at the end of war. If we win a war, I think we have a paramount duty to be generous, and to be just, and to be very merciful - not to take advantage of the advantages we could have taken by the fact that we have won. I think you could argue that, had it not been for a certain gross injustice in the Treaty of Versailles, the Second World War might never have happened. Because, the fact that we insisted on the Germans acknowledging that they were solely and totally to blame for the outbreak of war and imposing the very severe reparations on them that we did, we left in their hearts a sense of great injustice. And I hold that man being the man that he is - with his idealism and his sense of justice, no matter how wrong or how bad part of him may be - will never agree to going along with a regime which is totally evil. And Hitler was able to play on the German sense of injustice about the terms of the Versailles Treaty to get them on his side.
2:44 So my conclusion is, first, we have to be very professional, so that if it comes to a war, we fight it in the quickest and the most effective possible way. Secondly, that we have a continuing duty to search our consciences to think about these issues and try and take up some sort of a stand, so that at least we are prepared. And finally, that we must keep always in the forefront of our minds that we are members of one and the same human family, that our destinies really are linked all together; that although nationalism is an inevitable part and a good part of man's life, it's not the only norm; that we have to try and work as best we can to an ultimate real community of nations. And I feel that if we do all this, that when the moment comes that we have to take a decision, somehow, for better or for worse, we will do the one - we will take the decision that is right. I realise I have only talked very generally, and I'm very grateful for the fact that we have, erm, a discussion to follow, and I thank you very much for having listened so quietly for so long. Thank you.
04:27 Man: Thank you very much indeed. And [inaudible] to you both.
04:31 Speech Ends
04 32: Recording Ends
[End of transcription]
File Name: 'RAF SC 23.2.78. Morality' GLC talking on the morality of force at the RAF Staff College, Bracknell
Preservation Copy: 23/2/78
Duration: 4mis 32seconds
Transcription Date: 08/4/20
Archive Number: AV-S_002_3 Side 2
[Start of Transcription]
00:00 Leonard Cheshire: If I'm forced to express an opinion, which I suppose - to be honest - I ought to do, I would say, as a general rule, torture of the kind that literally degrades another person's dignity should not be used. However, there could be an exceptional situation where the information is of such importance and where so many lives depend upon it that, in that situation, perhaps you are justified in using extreme physical pressure on him. it's a horrible subject to have to discuss but we have to be realists and, in the world that we live in, it may be that one of you will be faced with that situation.
00:58 Finally, our duty at the end of war. If we win a war, I think we have a paramount duty to be generous, and to be just, and to be very merciful - not to take advantage of the advantages we could have taken by the fact that we have won. I think you could argue that, had it not been for a certain gross injustice in the Treaty of Versailles, the Second World War might never have happened. Because, the fact that we insisted on the Germans acknowledging that they were solely and totally to blame for the outbreak of war and imposing the very severe reparations on them that we did, we left in their hearts a sense of great injustice. And I hold that man being the man that he is - with his idealism and his sense of justice, no matter how wrong or how bad part of him may be - will never agree to going along with a regime which is totally evil. And Hitler was able to play on the German sense of injustice about the terms of the Versailles Treaty to get them on his side.
2:44 So my conclusion is, first, we have to be very professional, so that if it comes to a war, we fight it in the quickest and the most effective possible way. Secondly, that we have a continuing duty to search our consciences to think about these issues and try and take up some sort of a stand, so that at least we are prepared. And finally, that we must keep always in the forefront of our minds that we are members of one and the same human family, that our destinies really are linked all together; that although nationalism is an inevitable part and a good part of man's life, it's not the only norm; that we have to try and work as best we can to an ultimate real community of nations. And I feel that if we do all this, that when the moment comes that we have to take a decision, somehow, for better or for worse, we will do the one - we will take the decision that is right. I realise I have only talked very generally, and I'm very grateful for the fact that we have, erm, a discussion to follow, and I thank you very much for having listened so quietly for so long. Thank you.
04:27 Man: Thank you very much indeed. And [inaudible] to you both.
04:31 Speech Ends
04 32: Recording Ends
[End of transcription]
Collection
Citation
G L Cheshire, “Leonard Cheshire part of morality of force,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed June 15, 2025, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/40099.
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