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                  <text>Five items. An oral history interview with Leslie Arthur Turner (b. 1922, 189027 Royal Air Force), his log book, and photographs. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 10 Squadron. Post war he served as an air traffic controller in India.&#13;
&#13;
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Robert and Angie Lee and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff.&#13;
</text>
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              <name>Date</name>
              <description>A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource</description>
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                  <text>2019-01-29</text>
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              <name>Publisher</name>
              <description>An entity responsible for making the resource available</description>
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                <elementText elementTextId="720463">
                  <text>IBCC Digital Archive</text>
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              <name>Rights</name>
              <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <elementText elementTextId="720464">
                  <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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                <elementText elementTextId="720465">
                  <text>Turner, LA</text>
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      <name>Transcribed audio recording</name>
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              <text>JL:  It’s November the 15th 2010 and this is Julia Letts recording with Les Turner this morning with his memories of and experiences of the war.  Les, can I start by getting you to give me your date of birth?  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And where you were born.&#13;
LT:  I was born at 24 Hanbury Street, Droitwich.  That’s up there.&#13;
JL:  What was your date of birth?&#13;
LT:  24th of February 1922.&#13;
JL:  1922.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Ok.  Will you give me a little bit of a picture of your early life in Droitwich?  What do you remember of it?&#13;
LT:  Yes, I think so.  Well, my father was a fishmonger and he had a shop in the High Street and we of course were all involved in that and he was a keen gardener and he had an allotment over the way there.  &#13;
JL:  What was his name, Les?  What was your father's name?  &#13;
LT:  Arthur.  Arthur.&#13;
JL:  Arthur Turner.&#13;
LT:  Arthur Henry Turner, and a very good bowler by the way.  Played for Worcestershire.  &#13;
JL:  And was he Worcestershire born and bred?&#13;
LT:  No.  He was born in Stourbridge.  He was a Black Country lad.&#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yes, and he came to work at the Barley Mow in Hanbury Street and the First World War broke out there and he went off to war and when he came back he met my mother and they got married.  &#13;
JL:  So, how on earth did he get into fish?&#13;
LT:  Well, he, well I remember him starting actually when I was a very young lad.  He’ got a motorbike and side car.  No.  He had, he had the horse and dray first of all.  I used to go around with him and then he came onto a motorbike and side car.  He built a box on the side of the motor bike and then he bought the shop in the High Street.  &#13;
JL:  And where did he get the fish from?  Was it delivered from a supplier of some sort?&#13;
LT:  He went to Birmingham three mornings a week and he had two lots delivered from Grimsby on the two other days.  So that was the five days and one of my jobs when I was a lad was to go from the shop on a, with a truck and pick that fish up and bring it back before I went to school [laughs]&#13;
JL:  Goodness.  &#13;
LT:  And I went to St Peter’s School then and drove.&#13;
JL:  Was he the only fishmonger in Droitwich at that time?&#13;
LT:  He was the only wet fishmonger.  There were a fish and chip shop down the bottom of the street but they, it wasn’t the same kind of fish that was sold.  They didn’t sell the fresh fish.  So yes.  &#13;
[recording paused]&#13;
JL:  Right, Les, you were telling me a little bit about St Peters School.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Can you tell me a bit more about that?&#13;
LT:  Well, it was at the top of the Holloway where I lived and as I said there was a Boy’s School and a Girl’s School and there was a big high wall that divided the two between us and there was a junior school there as well and I went —&#13;
JL:  I was just going to ask were you separated from the girls?&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  Oh yes.  We weren’t allowed to mix with the girls at all.  &#13;
JL:  In class as well as in the playground?  &#13;
LT:  We had to keep away from the wall as well at playtimes and things like that [laughs] so, oh yes.&#13;
JL:  So what was it they thought that the girls would contaminate you with?  &#13;
LT:  I don’t know and I don’t even think we thought about it at all.  I don’t think we ever wanted to go to the girls at that age anyway.  &#13;
JL:  It was just the way it was.&#13;
LT:  Because I mean we were only there until we were fourteen years old and that was it.  But what were you wanting to know about the school itself?&#13;
JL:  Do you have any particular memories of school?&#13;
LT:  Only the teachers probably.&#13;
JL:  Were they strict?&#13;
LT:  Some were very strict.  Some we liked and some we didn’t like and that was when a Mr Fisher was headmaster then and you may have heard of the name Lovell.  That’s the father of the lad I was in the theatre with actually and he was my master for quite a long time.  &#13;
JL:  What do you mean in the theatre with?&#13;
LT:  When, when I’m sorry I’ve gone on a bit.&#13;
JL:  You’re jumping ahead there.  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  I’m jumping ahead there.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes, and but that was Mr Lovell and I knew his son later on.&#13;
JL:  Oh, ok.&#13;
LT:  He was my friend.  He still is my friend now.&#13;
JL:  Now, Les I know that you’ve been quite sporty all your life but did that start at school?  Were you?  Did you do a lot of sport at school?&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  I was.  I played a lot of football at the school itself.  I’ve got photographs somewhere of the football team.  But that really was the only sport that we played at that age because we, I’d moved on from that to play tennis in the park and I played tennis all my life then.  That was my life, tennis was really.  In fact, I finished up being president of the Tennis Club.&#13;
JL:  In Droitwich?&#13;
LT:  In Droitwich.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Good for you.&#13;
LT:  Yes, I’ll show you some pictures Iater on if you like.&#13;
JL:  So, that sort of leads us on to can you paint me a bit of a picture of Droitwich in the 1920s early 1930s when you were a lad?  What was it like?&#13;
LT:  I don’t really know what to say here.  I was in the Boy’s Brigade which was quite a lot of the lads were in it then and the girls were in the Guides and things like that.  They were about so, and Droitwich it was quite a quiet place really compared with what it is now.  It’s shocking now.  &#13;
JL:  So did everybody know everybody so to speak?&#13;
LT:  Oh, pretty well.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  When the war came they had street parties and things like that you know.  They all got together and mixed and had their children there.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  What about, you’ve mentioned the park.  Where were the places that young lads like you hung out?&#13;
LT:  Well, around where I lived there were fields you know which we played in.  In the Holloway there’s fields over on the left-hand side and a wood in which we spent a lot of time there and then that field joined up the Hanbury Road with the Holloway so we were all intermingled and we were never stopped playing in there.  Yes.  And of course we used to play in the street as well quite a bit.  Yes.  Of course, there weren’t the cars and things like that.  &#13;
JL:  I shouldn’t think there were many vehicles at all.&#13;
LT:  There weren’t.  There weren’t.  No.  No.  &#13;
JL:  So you would have left school, am I right, in about 1934, ’36.&#13;
LT:  Let’s see.  Twenty two, thirty two, thirty six.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Did you have any idea as you were going through school what your strengths were?  What you wanted to do?  &#13;
LT:  No.  No.  Nothing was sorted out at the school about what you were going to do after you left school.  If you passed the Eleven Plus exam you went on to Bromsgrove and I didn’t do that so —&#13;
[Recording paused]          &#13;
LT:  And, and so I was fourteen when I left school.  Then I worked for my father for a little while because there was nothing else to do and then he had contacts and I I he got me a job at Longbridge at the Austin Motor Company.  I was about fifteen then.&#13;
JL:  So you didn’t want to stay in the fish trade.  You weren’t going to take over.  &#13;
LT:  No.  Hated it.&#13;
JL:  Did you?&#13;
LT:  No.  I hated it.  No.  &#13;
JL:  Well, tell me about that.  Why did you hate it?&#13;
LT:  It was just messy and you were never in charge of things and you were here, there and everywhere and running here and running there and getting nowhere.  That kind of feeling you know.  You weren’t going anywhere and so I started at Longbridge then.  And my dad had a contact with somebody that worked up there and I got me my, I had an apprenticeship.  I started an apprenticeship then.  &#13;
JL:  And what were you?  An apprentice what?&#13;
LT:  Pattern maker.  &#13;
JL:  Pattern maker.&#13;
LT:  Engineering pattern maker.&#13;
JL:  Ok.  &#13;
LT:  Which was quite a skilled trade.  &#13;
JL:  And so did you know anything about that before you started to work there?&#13;
LT:  No.  Other than I was good with my hands and I could do this, that and the other.  I had the interview of course and I was going to Night School a bit as well then so I was kind of preparing.  I didn’t know I was preparing but I was preparing my future really.  And so I was there until the war broke out and I needn’t have gone into the war because I was a skilled apprentice pattern maker and all the skilled men were kept back from the war you see.  And so I went on until I was about [pause] I was in the Home Guard.&#13;
JL:  So you joined the Home Guard.&#13;
LT:  I joined the Home Guard at Longbridge.  They had a —&#13;
JL:  As soon as war broke out.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  ’39.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  That’s it.  Just after that.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And were you told that you weren’t to join up because you were a skilled person?  You were a Reserved Occupation.  Or wasn’t it as bossy as that?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  You had the choice.  You had the choice, yes.  And of course it was against my parent’s wishes and all my pals had gone off to war you know and there were very few of us left.  Then I decided that I wanted to fly so —&#13;
JL:  Where did that come from?  Do you know?  &#13;
LT:  I don’t know.  I don’t know.  No.  I just, you saw all these things in the paper and things like that and you thought —&#13;
JL:  So we’re just, just going back to September the 3rd 1939.  Can you remember actually the announcement of war?  Can you remember that day?&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  What were you doing?&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  That day.&#13;
LT:  I don’t know but we all gathered in my, in our house and we had a radio there and they announced it then you know and we knew it was coming.  I can’t remember what the feelings were then at all.  No idea at all.  But when I decided to go into the RAF it was quite against my parent’s wishes.  They didn’t want me to go.  &#13;
JL:  And do you think that was anything to do with your father’s experiences in the First World War?&#13;
LT:  No.  I don’t think so.  He said very little about that.  He got wounded in the First World War and he came out in 1916 so and made up his mind he was never going back again.  So he, his joke was he played on that wound.&#13;
JL:  But perhaps subconsciously that was one of the reasons he didn’t want you to go in at all.&#13;
LT:  That probably, yeah.  Yeah.  I don’t think any mother or father wanted their children to go off to war really.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So it was, were the lads from home, so back in Droitwich the ones joining up or were your fellow apprentices up at Longbridge or a mixture of them both?&#13;
LT:  A mixture of them both really.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  But if you wanted to go into aircrew it was a volunteering job you see.  You volunteered for aircrew and I went down to Worcester and just did that and then from then on it had all started.  &#13;
JL:  And that was in 1939 that you actually signed up or —&#13;
LT:  Oh no.  No.  No.  It was 1941.  About 1941 that was then.  I didn’t —&#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  I was an apprentice.  A young apprentice then in the Home Guard.&#13;
JL:  So tell me a little bit about your Home Guard.  What was your Home Guard called?&#13;
LT:  Oh, I was in the Longbridge Home Guard and I was in what they called the Battle Platoon.  It sounds a bit silly now but we were a platoon of Home Guard that wandered about in various places where we were needed and there was a place named [Oldham] near where they had the four engine bombers there.  &#13;
JL:  What?  They were building them there.  &#13;
LT:  Building them there, yes and we on our, the nights that we were home we were shipped over to it to guard the place you know.  &#13;
JL:  So, how many nights a week did you have to do on Home Guard duty?&#13;
LT:  Only one.&#13;
JL:  One night a week.&#13;
LT:  Only one.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And you worked all through that night and then were expected back at work the next morning.&#13;
LT:  Well, you came, you came off.  You came from that duty back to the factory and in uniform and you carried on working in uniform.  Yes.  You just, you had, you did two hours on and four hours off.  &#13;
JL:  Wasn’t that exhausting?&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  But you’re young and everybody was doing it so it was just something you did.  I —&#13;
JL:  Was it, was it, well, do you recall after the Battle of Britain started and the bombing of Birmingham do you recall really terrifying occasions because they were after Longbridge weren’t they?&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  They wanted to hit Longbridge.&#13;
LT:  Yes, that’s it.  Yes.  Well, we, from Droitwich you could see the bombing of Birmingham you know and you would see the huge flashes going off.  I was, I saw it the next day really when I went up.  Like I say I was at Longbridge and then we went off there and it was pretty smoky and horrible.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And did they actually hit the factory at Longbridge?&#13;
LT:  Not, not on those raids.  They didn’t come out.  They didn’t bomb Longbridge in those raids.  They were north of Longbridge actually but the city of Birmingham.  But there were odd daylight raids.  Little daylight raids when they, they’d sneak someone over and have a go at it you know and when that happened the sirens went and you burst off and got yourself into a shelter there.&#13;
JL:  So there were shelters.&#13;
LT:  No great damage was done to Longbridge.&#13;
JL:  There were shelters on sight were there?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  I’m told that Longbridge disguised itself very well.  &#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  From the air.&#13;
LT:  Yes.                                                                    &#13;
JL:  In what form did that take?&#13;
LT:  I’m not sure.  I’m not sure.  No.  I know they camouflaged it to a degree but I don’t actually know what the camouflage is worth.  &#13;
JL:  And what was going on in Longbridge during this period?  Was it taken over to make, manufacture —&#13;
LT:  We were manufacturing war vehicles, you know and let’s —&#13;
JL:  A mixture of war vehicles.&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  Or particular.&#13;
LT:  A mixture of war vehicles.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And what were you pattern makers doing?&#13;
LT:  We made the patterns to get the castings that made the engines.  So we, from a blueprint we made that in wood so that they could put it into the sand and cast it.  Obviously a very rough idea you know and it became a casting for the various things.  &#13;
JL:  So your job hadn’t really changed much apart from what you were now making patterns for were —&#13;
LT:  No.&#13;
JL:  Army vehicles.&#13;
LT:  No.  No.&#13;
JL:  Military vehicles as opposed to civilian vehicles.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And what was life like when  you were at home and your friends some of which had gone off to what turned out to be Dunkirk and didn’t come home?  What was the atmosphere like in that period?  &#13;
LT:  I think [pause] we had our little gangs.  You know what I mean.  And, but there weren’t many left really.  There were so many went.  This is what God only knows who we wondered in the end being young like we were and reading the papers and wanting to fly and things like that you wanted to get off and join them really so —&#13;
JL:  Was there a real sense of peer pressure?&#13;
LT:  That’s right.&#13;
JL:  Or peer support?&#13;
LT:  Say that again.&#13;
JL:  Peer pressure.  You know your peers had all gone off to fight and you wanted to support them and be there with them.&#13;
LT:  I think there was that.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  I mean we used to go to the dances and once we got the uniforms on used to have the girls [laughs]&#13;
JL:  But what about when you heard that the first of your friends had been killed?  Things like that.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Well, that I remember that very well because the very first one that it happened to was a chap named Frank Rawlings and he was courting Joan and he was a very good footballer and a leader kind of.  You know what I mean.  And when that happened it was a shock and you suddenly realised that it was, it was terrible really.  Yeah.  And then it started happening to various other people that I knew.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So you carried on in the Home Guard and with your apprentice job until ’41 and then you went to Worcester and signed up against your parents’ wishes.  Is that right?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  So what did the signing on consist of?  Did you just literally get the bus into Worcester and go into the office and say —&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Take me on.&#13;
LT:  Just went into the office and tell them what you wanted, you see.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And what happened at that point?&#13;
LT:  At that point they told me to go back home and join the Air Training Corps and pick up as much as I could because I was going into aircrew you see.&#13;
JL:  So was the Air Training Corps similar to the Home Guard?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  I don’t think it was so military but they did things for the Air Force and you learned signals and all those kinds of things.  I can’t remember exactly what it was now.  &#13;
JL:  Where did you do that, Les?  Was that in Droitwich?&#13;
LT:  In Droitwich.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  In the evenings after work?&#13;
LT:  In the evenings.  Yes.  Yes.  But I stayed in the Home Guard until I was called up as well.  Yes.  And —&#13;
JL:  How long was that, did that take you to be called up after you’d signed on?&#13;
LT:  I’m not sure the exact.  Not long.  Not long.  No.  No.  Weeks you know.  A few weeks.  And then I went to, I got called up to Air Force House in London.&#13;
JL:  Do you remember that trip up to London?&#13;
LT:  No.  Not really.  No.  I know I went by train and that was it.  &#13;
JL:  A sense of excitement?&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Well, apprehension and excitement.  Yes.  Very [laughs] it’s hard to explain isn’t it?  There were so many other people doing it at the same time you see.  You got straight in and talked to each other and that was it.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So what happened after that?&#13;
LT:  Then as I say they sent me back home and told me to join the ATC and pick up as much as I could on the various things which they talked about.  And then I don’t think there was many weeks before I was called up and I went to the Aircrew Receiving Centre then in London and there you got your uniform and became a part of a flight of about thirty people and a corporal in charge and you just did walk, marches and walking around and military things.  &#13;
JL:  And that was based in London.&#13;
LT:  In London.  Yes.  For a, for a not more than a couple of weeks it wasn’t and then I went to Initial Training Wing at Torquay and I was there for eighteen weeks and you did all the basics there and —&#13;
JL:  What was that like?  Was it a shock to the system or —&#13;
LT:  It was, it was pretty hard training actually.  A lot of, a lot of drills and things like that and getting fit.  They got you fit.  You were off running and they would go and lose you in the dark moor and you had to find your way back and things like that.  All little exercises but it matured you up to a standard you know.  &#13;
JL:  Oops.&#13;
LT:  To a standard.&#13;
JL:  I’ll just —&#13;
[recording paused]&#13;
JL:  Sorry, Les.  Your book has just fallen on the floor.&#13;
LT:  That’s alright.  &#13;
JL:  It got you ready for what?&#13;
LT:  Posting to South Africa.  &#13;
JL:  And that came straight on.&#13;
LT:  Straight after.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  After your eighteen weeks.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  After eighteen weeks we were, I went to Bristol and caught a boat there and then we built up a big convoy which, it was huge and off we went for South Africa and it was a six week trip.  A six week trip.  It was an old banana boat I was on and there was, I forget how many were on.  There were quite a lot of people on and off we went to South Africa.  We called at Freetown going down.  &#13;
[phone ringing]&#13;
Do you want to answer the phone?&#13;
No.  That’ll be Dot.  She’ll answer the phone.&#13;
JL:  So, just, just going back to getting on the ship and leaving for South Africa.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Did you know during your eighteen weeks that you would be going to South Africa or did it come as quite a surprise?  &#13;
LT:  It, it was either South Africa or America.  One of the two.  You hoped it would be America you know.  As it was I was glad I went to South Africa really.  &#13;
JL:  And what did your family think when they found out you were going to South Africa and would probably be away for about a year?&#13;
LT:  I don’t, well my mother, she, she broke down a few times you know and later on it was a heck of a job to keep it from her you know and, but that’s another tale that is.  &#13;
JL:  So you had to pretend you weren’t going.&#13;
LT:  Well, I told her I was just going to South Africa to train.  I wasn’t, there was no war down there you know.  That comes from the tale.  Well, there wasn’t.&#13;
JL:  No, but the getting there was quite hazardous.&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  And were you anxious about, I mean given what was happening in the Atlantic —&#13;
LT:  I don’t think you thought about it that way.  I met up with a big, Bill Turner his name was.  The same name as me and he’d come out of the Army into aircrew and he knew all the ropes, you know and he said, ‘Look, when we get aboard,’ he said, ‘We’ll volunteer to go into the cook house.  Into the cook house or duties that way.’ And I thought why would I do that?  You know.  And it was the best thing we ever did.  We looked after the Officer’s Mess and we ate after them as well.  And we had that all the way to South Africa and we had no other kind of duties on board to do.  &#13;
JL:  So he was in the know and he secured you —&#13;
LT:  He was in the know.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  A really good position then.  &#13;
LT:  We were friends and he failed his exams in in South Africa and came back.  &#13;
JL:  Oh, frustrating.&#13;
LT:  And I couldn’t catch up with him again after.  &#13;
JL:  So you never —&#13;
LT:  He came from London.&#13;
JL:  You never heard from him again.&#13;
LT:  No.  No.&#13;
JL:  What a shame.  &#13;
LT:  They just faded you know.  There was so much going on.  &#13;
JL:  So on the boat what were conditions like?  Where did you sleep and where did you eat and what was it like?  &#13;
LT:  You were issued with a hammock which you were told to go down and you were supposed to sling this hammock at night, each night you know and oh it was terrible.  And him being in the know he said, ‘Right.  We’ll find a space on deck.’ Which we did.  We found a space.  A sheltered space on deck.  We bedded down each night on deck.&#13;
JL:  Nobody minded that.  &#13;
LT:  No.  No.  We were all doing it.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  No.  I can imagine that might be quite pleasant when you’re further south but when you’re still in —&#13;
LT:  Yes, it did.&#13;
JL:  Northern Europe.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  A bit cold.  &#13;
LT:  Well, you worked between the two really.  You could work it between the two.  When it was very cold you could go down and do it the other way.  But most of the time we were on deck curled up in our beds you know.&#13;
JL:  And was life on board quite boring or did the time pass quite quickly?  &#13;
LT:  Well, it, doing what we did it passed very quickly.  We were so busy and they paid us when we got down the other end.  We were paid for doing a job.  I didn’t know that was going to happen.  It wasn’t much money like but they thanked us and —&#13;
JL:  Well, every little helps.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  So you —&#13;
LT:  We always had good food as well.&#13;
JL:  Well, I bet.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And you disembarked in Cape Town did you say?&#13;
LT:  Cape Town.  Yes.  Yes.  We called in at Freetown on the way down.&#13;
JL:  Was that Sierra Leone?&#13;
LT:  Sierra Leone, yes.  And we stayed there a week.  We didn’t go ashore then.  Oh, we called at Gibraltar.  That was it.  Called at Gibraltar and so many were allowed to go ashore for the odd day.  I didn’t go but, and the same with Freetown and it took six weeks altogether.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And an adventure.  &#13;
LT:  It was.&#13;
JL:  For a young lad.  &#13;
LT:  Quite an adventure.  Yes.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And you were what?  Just under twenty.&#13;
LT:  Twenty.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Twenty years old.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  It must have been —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  I mean you couldn’t ever have hoped to have done that as a civilian.&#13;
LT:  No, actually.  No.  I was a bit older than that.  I had my twenty first birthday when I was in South Africa.  That was it.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So, on arrival in Cape Town was it straight down to business?&#13;
LT:  Well, that’s a little story but everybody they were allowed ashore you see and the first thing they did they went and ate and ate and ate and everybody was sick and ill and things like that because the food was so poor on the boat.  It wasn’t for me because I’d got this good job you know and it caused a lot of trouble really.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  So when you disembarked were you straight into some sort of a barracks or camp for the night?&#13;
LT:  Yes, went to, went to a holding camp for a few days and then off we went to a training place which where, which was an aerodrome and it was all set out.  We didn’t fly for a little while.  &#13;
JL:  While everyone was still being ill from over indulgence.&#13;
LT:  Oh well.  That sorted itself out slowly you know.  &#13;
JL:  Can you remember the name of the, the camp you were moved to after the holding camp?&#13;
LT:  I’ve got it down somewhere.  &#13;
JL:  Don’t worry.  It doesn’t matter.  &#13;
LT:  Pretoria.  [unclear] East London.  That was it.  48 Air School I went to in East London.&#13;
JL:  East London.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Ok.  &#13;
LT:  And that was when the proper training started.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And at this point I’m trying to sort of get a picture of all you young men who were all training to be aircrew.  Did you have a particular role or did you, were you moving towards being a navigator or a bomber or whatever?&#13;
LT:  I was, I was training as an observer which is a bomb aimer navigator you see.  Combined with you’d came back on the twin engine aircraft like Mosquitoes and things like that.  And I went to, I passed all my exams except one.  One, and they gave me a choice.  They said, ‘You can either wait and take the exam again.’ They didn’t worry about you at all, ‘But it could mean about six weeks delay,’ you see, ‘Or you passed all your other exams.  You can go up to Johannesburg where, go to Johannesburg and become a bomb aimer.’ Of course, I’d done, I’d done the gunnery course.  I’d done the bomb aiming course.  I’d done quite a bit of the navigation course but I’d failed this one exam.&#13;
JL:  To make you an observer.&#13;
LT:  I thought, right.  So I decided to be a bomb aimer.  &#13;
JL:  Ok.  So just going back over that, Les.  When, at what point did you decide you wanted to be an observer?  Was that in initial training in the UK?&#13;
LT:  Oh, that was that was from the start that was.  &#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  What was it about being an observer that caught your imagination?&#13;
LT:  Just, just the aircraft that you would be able to fly on.  You’d be on the smaller aircraft you see rather than the big four engine bombers.  &#13;
JL:  I’m with you.  So, the smaller aircraft.  How many crew would there be in?  Just a pilot and an observer?&#13;
LT:  A pilot and an observer, yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Just the two.  &#13;
LT:  Well, that would be like a Mosquito.  &#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  Or one of those.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So you’d already decided at this point that you liked the look of the smaller aircraft.  &#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  You wanted to go off and —&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  But then I, I wanted to come back home and they were calling up.  They told us they were calling for these bomb aimers in Bomber Command you see because they were building up the raids and things like that.&#13;
JL:  So, now talk me through what training you had to do in South Africa and how long each, each course lasted.  Things like that.  &#13;
LT:  How could I say?&#13;
JL:  Did you have a particular —&#13;
LT:  There was so much you did in the classroom which was the navigation side of it initially and you did quite a few things on the ground before you and then, you went and flew in Oxfords or Ansons.  Airspeed Oxfords or Ansons which were a twin-engine plane like.  They were the old bombers and there was the pilot who was a pilot.  It was his aircraft, you know and there were two of you usually.  You sat side by side and you did a navigation exercise or a bombing exercise or did these various exercises and you were assessed on them with, sort of from the paperwork and the results or the bombing results or gunnery results and things like that.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Would that be almost on a daily basis?&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  You were going out.&#13;
LT:  Oh, yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Doing the flight.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Coming back in.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And were you always with the same pilot in the same aircraft?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  No.  No.  No, you weren’t always the same pilot.  There was a lot of going on.  You know what I mean.&#13;
JL:  Did you have —&#13;
LT:  I don’t know —&#13;
JL:  Sorry.  Carry on.  &#13;
LT:  I don’t know how many aircraft there were now but there were quite a few and they were all very busy.&#13;
JL:  Like dozens or —&#13;
LT:  Dozens.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  All lined up on the airfield.&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And did you live on the airfield?  Were there barracks on the airfield?  &#13;
LT:  Yes.  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  So did you get out of camp much?  Did you have much interaction with the local population?&#13;
LT:  I went to, people invited the aircrew out to their farms and things like that so you put your name down if you wanted to go.  I only went on one and it was wonderful.  I went on a pineapple place where they grew pineapples and things like that and you were there for forty eight hours actually over a weekend and they loaded you up with these pineapples when you came back and you brought them back to the base and distributed them.  &#13;
JL:  It was like a sort of exeat from —&#13;
LT:  Oh yeah.&#13;
JL:  Bombing life.  A bit of normality.&#13;
LT:  It was lovely.  Yes.  Yeah.  But you, you didn’t get many chances to go [laughs] But it was, it was hard work.  You didn’t hang about at all.  No.  &#13;
JL:  And did you make some very close friends during this period?  &#13;
LT:  Yes.  But [pause] well we were quite close friends while you were there but you knew that when you left you’d split up to the four winds you know.  That’s the way it was.  You didn’t kind of write to them after and things like that.  There was too much going on.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  This is probably a difficult question to answer but did you, did you feel, did you want to get on and to get back?  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And be part of the war.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  You had a real sense of —&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Urgency about it.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  I never thought of the other side I don’t think.  There were moments when I did but, and then I was posted up to Johannesburg and a big holding camp there and we, we were made sergeants.  We were made up to sergeant and got our wing and then we were, went back to Cape Town after a while, all over a period you know and got on another convoy and came home.&#13;
JL:  So the period in Johannesburg was further training.  &#13;
LT:  No.  It was a holding camp.  It was just to make you up to sergeant.  You had your Wings Parade and that kind of thing.  It was quite huge.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  It was just a great big airfield up there that you were based at for that —&#13;
LT:  No.&#13;
JL:  Camp.&#13;
LT:  No.  It was like a holding camp really.&#13;
JL:  Right.  So there was no —&#13;
LT:  No air, no flying anywhere.  No.&#13;
JL:  No aircraft up there at all.&#13;
LT:  No.&#13;
JL:  So you were just sent up by what?  By train to Johannesburg.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Just for the ceremony part of —&#13;
LT:  And then you were posted home.&#13;
JL:  Oh, ok.  &#13;
LT:  And they took over then.&#13;
JL:  And the convoy home was that much the same as the —&#13;
LT:  Pretty well the same.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And did you elect to do the [laughs] do the cooking again for the Officer’s Mess?&#13;
LT:  Didn’t get a chance [laughs] no.  But it, you knew what to expect then really.  It wasn’t too bad.  I remember the one going down but the one coming back is is faded now.  It was different and I was a sergeant as well.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  I bet you were pleased to get back to the UK and see family and friends again.&#13;
LT:  Oh, yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Because you’d been away for the longest time that you had ever been away.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Nearly a year.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So what date are we now?  I’m trying to work out.  It would be about 1943 coming up to ’44 wouldn’t it?&#13;
LT:  Three, six weeks by sea, calling at Freetown, Gibraltar.  November the 17th ’43.&#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  That’s when I —&#13;
JL:  And did you have any idea during the time you were in South Africa what was happening in the war in Europe?&#13;
LT:  Not really.  No.  Not really.  No.  No.  &#13;
JL:  Did you have a sense that you were, there was a build up to what would be an invasion and that you would be a part of that?&#13;
LT:  I don’t think we thought like that.  I think our training was so intense all we were bothered about was the kind of aircraft we wanted to get on when we got home you know and the kind of squadron we’d like to be on [laughs]&#13;
JL:  And you couldn’t choose that.  &#13;
LT:  Not really.  No.  No.  I came back to, where are we?  Moreton Valence, Worcestershire.  I went down there and did a bombing course.  That was it.  On Oxfords.  The Old Airspeed Oxford, you know.  &#13;
JL:  You’ve mentioned more than once though this want to get on a particular aircraft.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  So talk me through the different aircrafts and why you wanted a particular one.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Well, we knew that we were heading for a four-engine bomber and the main thought was Lancasters you see and the second one was Halifaxes and I don’t think anybody ever thought that’s that really.  For four engines anyway.  &#13;
JL:  But did you have a preference?  Lancasters or Halifaxes.&#13;
LT:  Not really.  No.  No.  It just happened.  I just know.  Then I went to an Operational Training Unit then and met my crew in Forres in Scotland.&#13;
JL:  So at this point had you been given a squadron?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  &#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  No.  We were still, we were still, we crewed up there and we became a crew.&#13;
JL:  And obviously that’s going to be an incredibly important part of your training because you were now the team that was going to stick together through —&#13;
LT:  Yes, and they threw you all into a big room and told you to sort yourself out as best you could because there was no other way of doing it really and it’s a wonderful way of doing it.&#13;
JL:  So what do you mean by that?&#13;
LT:  You look.  The navigator looks for a good skipper, you know.  The bomb aimer looks for a good skipper and the bomb aimer also looks for a good navigator because he understands it and you are part of the navigation team.  So you intermingled.&#13;
JL:  So there was a huge room full of —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Various persons, various navigators.  &#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Various bomb aimers.&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And you just went around chatting.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And see who you—&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Struck up a cord with.  That sounds amazing.&#13;
LT:  It is and it works.  Yeah.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  So how many crews did there end up being at Forres?&#13;
LT:  I don’t know.  Probably about a dozen crews.&#13;
JL:  And it all worked out.&#13;
LT:  It all worked out yes.&#13;
JL:  You found your —&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  Yes, and they were all in little groups.  It all kind of, it was amazing.&#13;
JL:  It sounds like the school gym.  You know, ‘Do you want to come in my team?’&#13;
LT:  It is.  Yes.  Something like that.  Yes.  Yes.  It worked.&#13;
JL:  And so will you tell me about your crew then?  Obviously quite special people to you.&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  Right.&#13;
LT:  I don’t, I haven’t kept in contact.  Only with the wireless operator and he’s gone now.  My skipper.  He was a mining engineer he was and a mining engineer and he’d been out to America as a pilot, you know and he’d come back to do a tour of ops.  A good looking guy you know.  And the navigator was a chap named Jonny [Horry].  He’d got a big black moustache and he was [pause] I’m just trying to think of his job.  Anyway, it doesn’t matter.  He, they were just standing there and I went over.  It’s a memory that sticks with you, you know.  We introduced  ourselves you know and I told them that I’d been on the navigation course as so the navigator was interested that we team up with the right people and so the pilot and the navigator and the bomb aimer started it off you see.  The gunners, they were just wandering around really.  They were gunners and that was it so they had to be asked really.  &#13;
JL:  And how many gunners were in your crew?&#13;
LT:  Two.&#13;
JL:  Two.  &#13;
LT:  A mid-upper gunner and a rear gunner.  &#13;
JL:  And anyone else?  What about a bomber?  Is a bomb aimer and a, the bomb aimer is the bomber.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So you are the person who —&#13;
LT:  You take over the bombsight.&#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  In the nose.  And you’re also part of the navigation team you see.&#13;
JL:  Yeah.  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So we’ve got the skipper, the navigator, the two gunners and the bomb aimer.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Five.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And that’s the crew.&#13;
LT:  No.  There was the flight engineer but he came later.  He came later.  He joined.  It didn’t matter with him in the training you know.  So who have we missed out?  The pilot, navigator, bomb aimer, wireless operator.&#13;
JL:  Oh.&#13;
LT:  Two gunners.  What’s that?  Six is it?&#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  That’s it.  And seventh is the flight engineer.&#13;
JL:  Yeah.  It was the wireless operator we missed out.&#13;
LT:  Wireless operator.  Yes.  Yes.  He was my mate.  Jock.&#13;
JL:  So, on this first night in this big hall somewhere in Scotland you got together and were then together for the next couple of years.&#13;
LT:  That’s it.  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So what then happened on your Operational Training in Forres?  What did you actually do on a daily basis?&#13;
LT:  Mainly navigation exercises and getting used to the aeroplanes and things like that.  For a start off we didn’t have our skipper.  We had, they had pilots take you up and then you did cross country exercises.  &#13;
JL:  And were you in a Halifax at this point?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.&#13;
JL:  What were you in?&#13;
LT:  We were in a Whitley.  &#13;
JL:  In a Whitley.  &#13;
LT:  A twin-engine Whitley.  There was Wellingtons and Whitleys.  They were the twin-engine bombers and the Halifax and the Lancaster took over from them.  So you trained in those to go in those.  &#13;
JL:  Were they quite similar?&#13;
LT:  Smaller of course.  Slower.  But yeah, pretty well the same.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  So what were the conditions like in the plane?  Actually inside the plane.&#13;
LT:  Well, there was no kind of softness about it at all.  My job, my job if like, you talk about the skipper, sits in his seat all the time, you know.  My job I was a general joe.  I was a second pilot so I had to do some flying there.  I did link training as well.  And when we took off the skipper would, you’d start going down the runway and ease the throttles up and I’d follow him up you see.  You’d got a heavy bomb load on so at one point he wanted to get his two hands on the stick you see.  So he’d shout, ‘Ok,’ you see and I’d hold the throttles like that and he’d get his stick and pull back.  Then I pressed those out and set them to a certain amount of revs and locked them and that was my job.  Part of my job.&#13;
JL:  So you were sort of a co-pilot in a way.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  It was quite an interesting —&#13;
JL:  And you sat next to him.&#13;
LT:  Next.  No.  &#13;
JL:  Or one behind him.&#13;
LT:  Only on, only on take-off and landing.&#13;
JL:  Ok.  &#13;
LT:  Then you had, you went down and became part of the navigation team then.  &#13;
JL:  So you had to sort of squirrel your way back through the, the plane.  &#13;
LT:  Oh, it was easier than that.&#13;
JL:  Ok.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.  Much easier than that.  You dropped down on to the steps.  Walked down past the wireless operator and then Jonny was sat there.  He was our navigator and a long thing and I used to sit by the side of him and I worked at what they called an H2S navigation aid and I kept a track plot on my, and he, he would navigate on the Gee.  He’d got Gee so he was getting position lines for navigation because you couldn’t see anything at night could you?  And then so I was part of the navigation team and we used to swap results you know.  Sometimes he needed me.  Sometimes he didn’t.  &#13;
JL:  Was it high concentration all the time?&#13;
LT:  Pretty well.  Yes.  Yes.  But and then you came within sight of the target which is usually flashes all over the sky at night and then I had to go down, set the bombsight, select all the bombs, there was a switch for each bomb position you know and the bomb load then.  You carry three cans of incendiaries in each wing at six cannon incendiaries and fifteen five hundred pounders.  That was a bomb load that was but it varied on the target.  Sometimes you’d go on mining trips and things like that you see and you go down and select that, you know and then you’d stay down there and look at this mess coming up at you.  And then there were master bombers at the target who dropped flares and he’s going around and saying, ‘Overshoot the red, boys.’ So and so.  So and so.  Various instructions which you understood.  &#13;
JL:  And this was being relayed to you from the wireless operator.&#13;
LT:  No.  From a master bomber who was flying down below.&#13;
JL:  How did you hear or know what he was telling you to do?  &#13;
LT:  Over our, our my, over the intercom.&#13;
JL:  Right.  So —&#13;
LT:  All the crew could hear it.  &#13;
JL:  And so all of the planes had an intercom.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  They’d all got —&#13;
JL:  Really?  I didn’t realise that.  &#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So, you could, you, could you have responded to somebody in another plane?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  Oh yes.  &#13;
JL:  Right.  Ok.  And how many of you were flying?  How many bombers were flying together?  &#13;
LT:  Oh, that varied as well.  There were thousand bomber raids weren’t there?  A thousand bomber raid would be in three flights and they would be at three, various.  The lower flight goes in first and then the next one comes in second and the high one comes in third and, but usually about five or six hundred bombers.  &#13;
JL:  So, we’ve, we’ve sort of leapt ahead actually because we’re probably talking about operations now.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  But you were training to do all this.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  With your particular flight crew.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  In Forres.  Still weren’t based with a squadron.  &#13;
LT:  No.  We, we, oh no we didn’t go on the squadron until we had to go on to heavy conversion first of all.&#13;
JL:  Heavy conversion.&#13;
LT:  Heavy conversion.  We went.  We’d done the Whitleys and we flew as a crew and we did various exercises and then we went on to a Heavy Conversion Unit which was Halifax 2s they were.  They weren’t Halifax 3s.  They were Halifax 2s.  They’d got a different type of engine and, but they were the same aircraft and we did quite a few exercises on those which acclimatised all our jobs to the real thing.  And then when we’d finished that we got posted to a squadron.&#13;
JL:  So all of that time was in Forres.  Was the conversion, the heavy conversion in Forres?&#13;
LT:  No.  &#13;
JL:  So you’d moved by that point.&#13;
LT:  We’d moved.  Scotland.  I went to a place called [pause] where are we?  Crewed up.  Acaster Malbis in Yorkshire.&#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  And we went on Halifax 2s there but on the conversion this was.  And then on June the 30th I went on 10 Squadron.  That’s when I started.&#13;
JL:  June the 30th.  And we’re now in ’44.&#13;
LT:  ’44.  ’44, yes.  &#13;
JL:  So, so hang on.  Let me get my bearings.  D-Day has now been and gone.&#13;
LT:  Gone.  Yes.  Been and gone.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So do you remember that happening?&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And the reporting back and did you feel you wanted to be part of it?&#13;
LT:  Oh.  When D, we didn’t know D-Day was happening at all.  I was flying that day and didn’t know it was actually happening and most of the people up north didn’t even know there was an invasion going to happen.  It just happened D-Day did.  It was a fantastic operation.  I tell you the amount of stuff that went down there.  &#13;
JL:  And you were just on a training exercise.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  That day.&#13;
LT:  A training exercise that day and we didn’t find out and when we got down they said, ‘We’re going to bomb you up.’ ‘What for?’ They said, ‘Well, there’s the invasion has started and you’ll stand by in case there is an emergency.’ And that was it.  We just thought cor blimey, you know.  Yeah.  Yeah.  Didn’t know anything at all about it at all.  But I didn’t go.  We didn’t go.  They took them all off and we carried on after.  &#13;
JL:  And then in June you —&#13;
LT:  My —&#13;
JL:  Went to 10 Squadron.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  June I went to 10 Squadron.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Why 10 Squadron?  Do you know how that was picked ?&#13;
LT:  No.&#13;
JL:  Or you were picked for them?  &#13;
LT:  No.  No.  No, it was just if, if the squadrons had got to be [pause] you do what they needed.  Somebody had been shot down or something you’d got to take their place really.  That’s what happened.  &#13;
JL:  And where was 10 Squadron based?&#13;
LT:  That was at Melbourne in Yorkshire.  That’s just north of York that is.  That is.  Yes.  It was a place we were able to get down to.  York.&#13;
JL:  So —&#13;
LT:  I was there from December the 22nd until April the 6th and I completed thirty three operations then in that time.  &#13;
JL:  Right.  We ought to talk about that next then really.  What was the, can you remember the first of those operations?&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And what it felt like suddenly to be doing it for real after all these years of training.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  I, we all said the first operation was the one that stuck in our mind and it was a night op and it was, where was it?  [pause] Pass me that book and I’ll tell you.  &#13;
JL:  I’m just passing Les his red logbook which has all his flights that he’s ever done, training and operations listed in it and he’s just looking up where his first operational flight was to.&#13;
[pause] &#13;
LT:  Bottrop.  It wasn’t the first one.  No.  We went, I beg your pardon we went to a place called Taverny which was a troop support thing.  It was a short trip.  And then we went to Caen.  This was when the invasion was taking place and we did support bombing then and —&#13;
JL:  So, this was after D-Day and —&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Right.  Ok.  &#13;
LT:  That was it.&#13;
JL:  So, what’s the date of that?&#13;
LT:  That was July the 18th.&#13;
JL:  Ok.  So it was just a few months after, after D-Day.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  They were still fighting though weren’t they before they got, kind of got out.&#13;
JL:  Absolutely.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.  The Falaise Gap.  Remember the Falaise Gap?  I went to the Falaise Gap when it was a ten miles wide and we bombed down through the centre and we trapped all the Germans in the, in the big gap they were trying to get out of.  It was like a pocket.  Yes.  It’s on that one.  But the one I was, was Bottrop on the Ruhr and it was black you know and you kind of approached the target and you knew and then suddenly you’d see all these flecks in the sky and they were all over you know and it looks forever as though nothing could ever get through it.  And then as you got nearer it got less but you got bumped about, you know what I mean?  And that was, that was a real trying thing.&#13;
JL:  What, what was your feeling trapped inside the aeroplane seeing all this going on around you?  &#13;
LT:  Very very apprehensive.  Hang on tight.  Said a few prayers probably and and then just got on with it.  You know what I mean?  Yes.  And then you, you, I took over telling the skipper what to do on the bombing run and it was, ‘left.  Left.  Steady.  Centre.  Too low.’ Yeah.  And, ‘Bombs gone.’ Right.  And then you could, you could feel the aircraft and you’d got to fly straight and level for so many seconds after so that in theory you, everybody had got a camera underneath and it took a picture of what happened on the ground.  At night time it wouldn’t but that was what it was for because you did daylight raids and the photographs came in handy then.  &#13;
JL:  So the photograph could show you what, what you had hit.  Could you actually see?  Was there anybody who could see from the aircraft?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  &#13;
JL:  So you didn’t actually know after you’d dropped the bombs.&#13;
LT:  No.  &#13;
JL:  What had happened.&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  &#13;
JL:  It was only when you got back that you could.&#13;
LT:  That’s it.  You flew straight and level for so long and then the skipper would say, ‘Ok.  Here we go.’ And you’d feel the aircraft turning then and then you started to feel a bit easier.  But it was all still happening around you know and then you kept your fingers crossed and [laughs] but everybody was doing a job, you know.&#13;
JL:  So can I ask a couple of sort of questions about routine?  You were based in Yorkshire.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Just above York you said.  So it was quite a long flight to get even to the coast of France.&#13;
LT:  That’s right.&#13;
JL:  So how long would you be sort of sat there trundling along until any action happened?&#13;
LT:  Well, you, there was a concentration point first of all, you know.  Have you ever heard of Beachy Head?&#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  That was a famous concentration point for Bomber Command that was.&#13;
JL:  So, do you mean that’s where all the bombers would —&#13;
LT:  That’s it.  All the squadrons —&#13;
JL:  Would get to —&#13;
LT:  Would meet there at a certain time.  &#13;
JL:  And would you circulate there?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  No.  No.  You had to navigate and the navigator and the pilot worked that out actually and so that we would get to Beachy Head at exactly the right time.  &#13;
JL:  So if you were a bit early you would just fly a bit further?&#13;
LT:  Fly a bit further.  Yeah.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  How amazing.  So everybody would come together at the concentration point.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And then off you’d go.&#13;
LT:  You’d set course then.  So all at that point theoretically in daylight it was you could see but at night it really was, but you could see them all around you.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  Well, there must have been accidents.  People crashing in the dark.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Never saw one but I know it happened.  Yes.  but it wasn’t something that happened because theoretically you should all have been going the same direction at the same time.  &#13;
JL:  And talking of crashes and things were you briefed and trained as to what might happen if you did crash land in France?&#13;
LT:  Oh [laughs] yes.  Yes.  Yes, we were.  Yes.  And you [pause] you carried so much money in your pocket.  Usually a couple of pound.  And you did your parachute drill back in the hangar and what you were told really was to try and get away when you dropped down or contact French people or who it was because in Germany it was just too bad.  But nobody could really tell you exactly what to do.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  And if you thought about it too much you would have —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.  I was very lucky.  I was very lucky.&#13;
JL:  So what was the life expectancy of flight crew in that period of the war?&#13;
LT:  Well, they say that only thirty three percent came out unscathed.  Only thirty three percent of flight crews came out unscathed so you can work that out.  &#13;
JL:  And did, was that ever on your mind as you were on your operations?&#13;
LT:  No.  I don’t think so.  No.  &#13;
JL:  You just had to get on with it.&#13;
LT:  No.  You just got on with it.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  So we’ve mentioned the particular night flight in the Ruhr that you —&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Recall so vividly.  Were there any others that you can particularly recall of the thirty three operational flights that you did?&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  I went to Munster on a daylight raid because the Americans were were doing daylight raids all the time and then it came that they needed more backup in the daylight on various targets.  So we were, we started formation flying.  It was a bit chaotic but we did do it.  Yes.  And we went to Munster and  Fighter Command could only support you to within so many miles of the target you see and so for a short while we were without fighter cover and the flak was terrible.  Yes.  It was terrible and we got hit twenty five times.  &#13;
JL:  What is flak exactly?  Is it —&#13;
LT:  Pieces of shrapnel.  &#13;
JL:  Being chucked up.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Into the air.  &#13;
LT:  And by one little tale that I’ve got about that raid was I was laid down doing the bombing run.  We did the bombing run and all this kind of happening you know and you could hear little clicks and the navigator kicked my foot and I turned around and he was stood up and there was a big hole up above him.  You know what I mean and he went like this and I thought oh my God.  And anyway that was that and when we got back we we’d been hit twenty four times.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  But your plane —&#13;
LT:  And we lost forty other aircraft that day.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  But your plane was ok even though —&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  It had a whacking great hole in it.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And was that due to the skill of the pilot getting you back?&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Or was it just —&#13;
LT:  And another point, another point somebody shouted to the mid-upper gunner is he alright and he got no answer.  Well, I was the general Joe and skipper said, ‘Go back and see what you can find.’ So you strapped the portable oxygen bottle on and went back and he was, he was like this in his turret you know.  &#13;
JL:  Looked unconscious.  &#13;
LT:  And I thought oh God he’d been hit, you know and there was, there was a hole in his turret.  Anyway, I got to him.  I pulled him down and he moved.  He moved.  And what had happened that we reckon was a piece of shrapnel had gone in and ricochet around and bobbed him on the head like that and he fainted we think.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  But he was ok.  &#13;
LT:  He was ok.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  Lucky man.  &#13;
LT:  Yeah.  He’d got this bump on his head.  Yeah.  Well, that’s just a tale.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  But you must have had a tremendous sense of looking after each other.&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  Yes.  Yes.  We were.  we were a wonderful band we were.  We went everywhere together when we were there.  Yeah.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  How much did you know what you were actually bombing?  What you were actually doing?&#13;
LT:  Oh, every bombing raid you went on you reported to the briefing room.  All the crews did and they’d have the intelligence officer and the bombing officer and the gunnery officer and they each gave a talk, you know and they’d tell you why you were going.  Half of it I didn’t believe.  And what difference it would make if it was a success.  It was a boost.  Boost.  And it happened every time.  &#13;
JL:  I’m interested in that.&#13;
LT:  You got used to it.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  When you say half of it you didn’t believe.  So you were well aware that this was a bit of propaganda.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  To get you onside.  &#13;
LT:  He comes on all jolly you know and does his job.  it’s a job you’ve go to do.  Make us feel alright.  But when you’ve done a few ops you started to feel —&#13;
JL:  You become a bit cynical.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  It’s all going to happen when you get there.  &#13;
JL:  So did you ever think for example when you were off to Munster about the people on the ground?  Or did you just have to block that out?&#13;
LT:  You’d got to block that out.  It’s a terrible terrible thing and I can’t explain how I feel.  But you have to shut it all out.  It’s a terrible terrible thing.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  When you got back from a trip like that what, and you landed safely maybe others didn’t but you had what was the feeling then?  I mean you must have been such on an adrenaline high still.  Or were you just exhausted?&#13;
LT:  No.  You, you went, when you landed you got down to the debriefing room first of all and you got debriefed you see and there was drinks as well and you always had a good tot which helped quite a bit really.  And then if it, depending what time it was you know you either go to the Mess or you’d go to bed and that was it.  &#13;
JL:  Would you have any —&#13;
LT:  You were, we were altogether in the same billet like.  We always lived together.  Except the skipper.  &#13;
JL:  Were you allowed off?  Off the camp for some, some down time whenever you had a night off.  &#13;
LT:  Oh, yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  We went down to York.  We used to get down there.  Pocklington we used to go to.  To the pubs there.&#13;
JL:  So, how much down time so to speak did you have?&#13;
LT:  Varied.  Varied a terrific amount.  Terrific variation.  Sometimes you’d go quite a long time without doing an op.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Quite a long time being what?  A couple of weeks or —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Longer than that?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  No.  It wouldn’t be a couple of weeks.  It might be a few days.  Yes.  Unless the weather was bad or anything like that and you —&#13;
JL:  And if your plane had been hit as yours was on that Munster raid would you then just be transferred into another plane?  Or would you wait until your was fixed?&#13;
LT:  We’d usually wait until it was fixed.  Well, it depends how bad it was really.  I see on here I’ve got the letters of the aircraft.  We were allotted to X for X-ray.  Oh God.  We were allotted to X for X-ray but we were the standby crew.  There was an A crew and a B crew you see.  Now, the A crew had the choice of the particular aircraft and if they were flying that night you had to go in another plane.  &#13;
JL:  So why was there an A crew and a B crew?&#13;
LT:  You’d be allotted to, to a plane.  &#13;
JL:  What made an A crew an A crew and a B crew a B crew?  Was it just how it was picked that night?  &#13;
LT:  No.  Just how many operations you had done.  The more operations you had you see.  We were allotted to X for X-ray.  We hardly flew in X for X-ray and then somebody would get shoved down there probably.&#13;
JL:  So X for X-ray is the name of the —&#13;
LT:  That’s the letter on the side of the aircraft.&#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  XXX.&#13;
JL:  So the flights that you’ve done which don’t have an X by them —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Are when you were in a different —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Aircraft.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  We’d have been the A crew there and there would have been somebody secondary to us you see.  But we’d always had the choice of that aircraft but, and when you start you are always second aren’t you so you don’t get the choice.&#13;
JL:  So did you have favourites of aircraft?&#13;
LT:  Oh, we loved X X-ray.  We thought that was a good aeroplane.&#13;
JL:  Now, why was that?  Was that because it was a lucky one or was it something about it that —&#13;
LT:  No.  You just, we just liked it.  I can’t explain it.  We were always glad.  ‘X-ray?  Oh good.’ You know.  Yes.  And we were friends with the ground crew as well you see.  &#13;
JL:  Well, they were a very important part of your team weren’t they?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  They were.  Yes.  There’s a picture of us with our ground crew.&#13;
JL:  So how many ground crew would you have had?&#13;
LT:  Three.&#13;
JL:  And what were their titles or their roles?&#13;
LT:  Oh, they weren’t much rank.  Probably leading aircraftsmen or something like that you know but they were allotted to the plane.  &#13;
JL:  So they —&#13;
LT:  And they looked after it.&#13;
JL:  And they would always stay with that plane.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So there was a ground crew for —&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  X for X-ray.&#13;
LT:  Unless it got shot down and then they would get allotted to the next one that came in.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  And did you socialize with them as well?  Were they part —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  You lived with them and slept with them and —&#13;
LT:  Well, we could invite them in on a Sunday night.  [Hello darling]&#13;
Other:  Hello.  &#13;
JL:  Shall we just pause for a sec?&#13;
[recording paused]&#13;
JL:  We’ve just had a little bit of a break and I wanted to ask you Les a little bit more about 10 Squadron and some real practical bits and pieces like can you remember what your uniform was?&#13;
LT:  Well, we, we, you mean when we were on the squadron?&#13;
JL:  When you were on the squadron.&#13;
LT:  We wore battle dress.&#13;
JL:  Which was what?  What did it consist of?&#13;
LT:  Trousers and, blue trousers and [pause] the same as the khaki Army thing only in blue really.  &#13;
JL:  What did you have?  Did you have flying jackets?  What did you have to keep you warm in the aircraft?&#13;
LT:  Oh.  Now, the flying material was all kept in a special area and you had a bin.  What did they call it?  A locker.  You had a locker of your own and all your things in your locker and you’d got the key.  So whenever you went on an op you went to briefing first.  Then you went off to a meal which is well known to everyone how well aircrew used to eat [laughs] We did eat well.  And then eventually the time would come when we’d got to go and get dressed.  Dressed for the op you see which was all fun.  We all wore the underclothes.  The keep warm underclothes and you can imagine some of the antics they got up to in those really.  &#13;
JL:  So these were sort of Long Johns.&#13;
LT:  Silk lined.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  I got my dad a set.  Well, he wore his forever.  Yeah.  And then when we were dressed we’d got to get out to the air, the aircraft you see and in time a vehicle would pull up and shout so and so, so and so and you’d pile out and get into the vehicle and they’d take you out to the aeroplane.   And there were certain checks you did and it was just a case of settling down and getting yourself in position and all that, you know.  &#13;
JL:  And how long would that period be from briefing to in the air?  Are we talking a couple of hours?&#13;
LT:  Could be.  Could be.  Perhaps not a couple of hours perhaps.  No.  But it could be some time depending on what was happening you know and —&#13;
JL:  And just going back to changing.  Getting your stuff out of the locker.  On top of your, you had your silk undies and then your flying suit.&#13;
LT:  My flying suit.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And [unclear]&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  You had your uniform on then.&#13;
JL:  Right.&#13;
LT:  You had a uniform over the top of your undies and then you’d get a top suit as well.  It depends.  The gunners, they had heated suits they plugged in you know and the mid-upper had a heated half down to his waist you see to keep him warm.  But the rear gunner, he had a heated suit all over to keep him because it was pretty cold back there.&#13;
JL:  Which plugged into the aircraft somewhere.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  That plugged into the aircraft.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  So it had wires or something running through it.  Heating elements plugged in.  &#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  It was all electrical.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  I’ve never heard of that.&#13;
LT:  Haven’t you?&#13;
JL:  No.  But you didn’t have a heated suit.&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  No.  &#13;
JL:  Because you had to move around.&#13;
LT:  I moved around.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So what did you have?&#13;
LT:  Quite a lot [laughs] scarves and, well you got all your underclothes.  Then you’d got you’re your uniform on top of that and then you’ve got your parachute harness and things like that on.  You kept that on all the time and you wrapped yourself up as best you could really with scarves and things like that.  &#13;
JL:  So did you feel a bit like a Michelin person?&#13;
LT:  A little bit.  Yeah.  Yeah.  No.  It wasn’t too bad really.&#13;
JL:  And what about on your head?  Did you have a flying helmet?&#13;
LT:  A flying helmet.  A flying helmet.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And goggles?&#13;
LT:  And goggles.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And big thick gloves or — &#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  I had.  Of course, you when you came to do the bombing run the gloves had to come off because we hadn’t got the little switches and things like that to play with you know.  And of course if you were helping the navigator because in a Halifax they had two navigational aids.  The one was called Gee which they’d send out position lines from base you know and this thing picked them up and the navigator piddled about like and eventually got a position line.  And I was on H2S which is that big bulge underneath on a Halifax and I could get a picture of the ground actually and so I could get fixes and I did a track plot see and we compared whether we were.  So it was  a backup for, for the navigator really.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Did you use landmarks as navigational aids much?&#13;
LT:  No.  No.  &#13;
JL:  You always hear about the German bombers used to use the [seven] as a navigational aid.  &#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  Did you use landmarks on the ground?  &#13;
LT:  No.  No.  No.  The navigation was quite good and it took you to the target you know.  And then when you got to the target you were being looked after by the master bomber.  Pathfinders or master bombers went in first, marked the target and then they were the master bomber flying down underneath talking and saying, ‘Aim two hundred yards to the right of the reds.’ Or the greens, or the blues or something.  It was pretty accurate really.&#13;
JL:  And the master bomber was a particular role.&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  You couldn’t be the master bomber.&#13;
LT:  He was, no.  &#13;
JL:  One day.&#13;
LT:  Well — &#13;
JL:  No.  I don’t.  What I mean is they didn’t just pick a crew who today is the master bomber.&#13;
LT:  Oh no.  No.  No.  They were, they were part of the Pathfinding — &#13;
JL:  Squadron.&#13;
LT:  Squadrons.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Right.  And that was a particular squadron of Pathfinders.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  And master bombers.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Who were trained in a slightly different way.&#13;
LT:  That’s it.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So going back to on station.  So you’ve got this locker room where you all changed.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So you’d come back, presumably change back.  Put everything back in your locker.&#13;
LT:  Back in there.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And then you would go to your debrief.&#13;
LT:  The debriefing was just in the same building you know and there was a table there with the intelligence officers there sitting down and the things used to be going as well.  We used to get rum.  A glass of rum.&#13;
JL:  And were there any occasions, Les when you came into the debrief and there was a crew that hadn’t made it?&#13;
LT:  Oh, you mean got shot down?  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  Often?&#13;
LT:  There was the odd occasion.&#13;
JL:  Odd occasion.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yeah.  I can’t say —&#13;
JL:  Was it different in that, on that, on those occasions?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Oh yes.  Yes.  We had our own little way of kind of talking about them and that you know but I don’t think we got upset to, to the crying stage or anything like that you know but we talked about it.  Yes.  Made you think didn’t it?&#13;
JL:  And did the intelligence officer or any of the officers on the ground did they, was there any form of a ceremony or drinking to your lost comrades or anything like that?  &#13;
LT:  No.  You, you’d get a drink when you went in.  When you went in and then you’d wait ‘til you, ‘til they became available and you’d sit down and then you’d do all the, he’d look at the, ask questions and things like that.&#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  It was the navigator and I usually do that.&#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  You’re just crinkling the paper a little bit.&#13;
LT:  Sorry.&#13;
JL:  That’s alright.  So going on from that.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Your rooms in your barracks.  What were they like?  Did you share?&#13;
LT:  No.  We each crew had a Nissen hut.  A little Nissen hut and that was for one crew.&#13;
JL:  So it would have six beds in it or did you have separate rooms in the hut?&#13;
LT:  No.  All the beds were open.  A free for all it was.  Well, you got your own beds like but, but yes.&#13;
JL:  Was it kept tidy?  Or was it quite a mess in there?&#13;
LT:  There was an inspection every so often.  Yes.  Yes.  I don’t think we made, we were dirty or anything like that [laughs] Not for one minute.  &#13;
JL:  Was it cold?&#13;
LT:  It had its moments.&#13;
JL:  Was it cold?  Because there was some fearsomely cold winters in those days.&#13;
LT:  No.  We had stoves in there.  Box stoves you know with the thing going up through the top and we got quite a good heat from that.  Yes.  I can’t remember ever being really cold and uncomfortable and of course there was plenty going on.  &#13;
JL:  Well, tell —&#13;
LT:  There was a good atmosphere.&#13;
JL:  Tell me what was going on.  What could keep you entertained when you were not actually on duty?&#13;
LT:  Well, it depends.  If we could go out we’d kind of more or less go out as a crew to a local pub or something like that.  Or if we had any time off we’d perhaps go down to York and just, it just depended on availability.  Whether you were stood down or whether you, you’d got to stand by.  &#13;
JL:  Some of the RAF bases had things like cinemas on site.  Did you have that?&#13;
LT:  We had dance hall.&#13;
JL:  On site.&#13;
LT:  But we didn’t have a cinema in itself.  No.  But we had, we had the dances on the squadron.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And so you would bring in girls from  —&#13;
LT:  Could do.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  From local towns or —&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And did some of your colleagues have girlfriends who were in any of the local villages?  &#13;
LT:  I would think they probably did.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  I’m sure you were all in high demand weren’t you?  Was there a bit of a kudos that went with being flying crew?&#13;
LT:  Well, I think we could make things work in the pubs you know when we went down there if we went down as a crew.&#13;
JL:  I like this phrase make things work.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  What exactly does that mean, Les?&#13;
LT:  Start a, start an atmosphere or something like that.  There was no, I don’t think we were ever sorry for ourselves or anything like that.  It wasn’t like that.  No.&#13;
JL:  Did you have sport going on?&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  We, we played football and things like that and you could take part in training for athletics and things like that.  Running and that.  It was all available.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And did you get much leave?&#13;
LT:  About, about one every six weeks.  A week every six weeks.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And what would you do during your leave?  Would you come back down to Droitwich?&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  Always came home.  Yes.  Yes.  Never go anywhere else.  Yes.  Because my, my mother didn’t even know I was on bombing raids until getting towards the end and I had an aunt who was her sister who knew.  Knew everything you know.  I didn’t tell.  I got right the way  through the op, my ops without her knowing and it made a difference to her as well.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Because she was so worried about you.&#13;
LT:  She was so, yeah.  Yeah.  Well, you would, wouldn’t you?&#13;
JL:  Absolutely.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Especially with the statistic you’ve given me that only a third —&#13;
LT:  Yes.  That’s what they reckon now.  They’ve got statistics coming out now with [pause] yeah in aircrew.  &#13;
JL:  So you were operational throughout ’44 and ’45.  &#13;
LT:  No.  Not that long.&#13;
JL:  Not that long.  When did you finish?&#13;
LT:  Well, what do you mean by operational?  Bombing?  Bombing Germany?&#13;
JL:  Doing your bombing raids.  &#13;
LT:  I was with 10 Squadron.  Hold on.  I’ll tell you.  At one point in India there.  10 Squadron.  June 30th to December the 22nd.&#13;
JL:  Right.  So —&#13;
LT:  It was six months.&#13;
JL:  End of ’44.  Yeah.  Yeah.  So what happened then in December?  &#13;
LT:  December.  I had a good leave.&#13;
JL:  I hope it coincided with Christmas.&#13;
LT:  Pardon?&#13;
JL:  It sounds like  it coincided with Christmas.&#13;
LT:  It certainly did.  I was home for Christmas.  I did my last op on December the 22nd.  Yes.  I got home for Christmas.&#13;
JL:  That was very well organized.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  And then you got to you must have a three month stand down.  So you’d got to make up your mind what you were going to train for.  You had to train for something and there were these various options.  You know what I mean?  And I —&#13;
JL:  So just going back very quickly, Les.  We’ll come on to that but why were you, why did you finish then?  Was that because there was no more bombing raids to do?&#13;
LT:  You finished a tour.  &#13;
JL:  It was a tour.  Ok.&#13;
LT:  And you got three months rest.&#13;
JL:  So it’s a six month tour and a three month rest.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  I’m with you.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Ok.  So you had to choose this option of what you were going to do.&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yeah.  So you can see, and I decided I would like to become  a flying control officer.  I got a commission like when we finished our tour.  The skipper was a flight sergeant when he started and he was a flight lieutenant when he finished and he got the DFC.  Jonny, our navigator he was a flight lieutenant when we started and he was a flight lieutenant when we finished and he got the DFC and I got a commission and the wireless operator went for an interview for a commission because they said he could and he didn’t pass.  So that was it you know.&#13;
JL:  So, did you have to go for an interview for a commission?&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  What was that like?&#13;
LT:  Quite good really.  It was a wing commander.  No, it wasn’t.  It was a group captain I saw.  A group captain I saw you know and he was lovely and I told him I was a fishmonger’s son you know and he kind of asked me questions about being a fishmonger’s son and things like that and and I felt very much at ease because it, I was a bit shaky when I went in.&#13;
JL:  And when you came out did you know immediately that you were going to be recommended for a commission?&#13;
LT:  I had an idea.  I had an idea.  Yes.  By the way he was.  He shook my hand very well as I went and then suddenly I was a pilot officer.  &#13;
JL:  A pilot officer.&#13;
LT:  That’s the lowest rank.  Yes.  Yeah.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  Congratulations.&#13;
LT:  And I finished as a flying officer.&#13;
JL:  Right.  So did your life then change now you were an officer?&#13;
LT:  Well, it changed because I’d finished flying on ops, hadn’t I and the crew had split up and went to the four winds.&#13;
JL:  And did that happen literally on that December day?  You all went off in your own directions never to get together again.&#13;
LT:  Well, no.  We, you could apply for various things as a crew and we talked about it and we talked about going as Pathfinders.  You know what I mean?  Because we were an A crew and we’d got these various well we’d done well and then we decided not to.  &#13;
JL:  Can you remember why?&#13;
LT:  No.  Not really.  Not really.  No.  I don’t know whether it was something to do with the navigator.  Jonny was getting on.  He’d got a family you know and I think that was the start of it.  I was pretty easy what I did.  I couldn’t care less really.  But that was it.  It was all good.  Good what happened.  &#13;
JL:  So when you, was —&#13;
LT:  But you’d got to take a three months rest at least.&#13;
JL:  So you weren’t going to see each other during that period anyway.  &#13;
LT:  Not unless you stayed together.  Yes.  Yes.  And so I decided I’d like to become a control officer.  A flying control officer.  &#13;
JL:  And did you see any of your crew again?  Did you get together as a group?&#13;
LT:  No.  Only, only Jock, the wireless operator.  He was my mate and he came to my wedding and we saw each other two or three times after.  And then he went to Australia and when I had four months in Australia with my daughter and I tried to find him and I couldn’t.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  So that’s a strange thing isn’t it?  That those seven people —&#13;
LT:  People just go to the four winds.&#13;
JL:  That you were as close to as probably —&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Anyone in your life during that period.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And then you went your separate ways.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  That’s right.  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.  I think probably it was an attitude more than anything of getting out and away.  Yes.  I don’t think I wanted to carry on as such.  I would have carried on if everyone had kept together.  But no.  I didn’t want to at the time I don’t think.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  So during your three months did you have to retrain as a flying controller?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  You went on a course.  You had a leave.  A reasonable leave.  I forget what the time was now.  It was about a couple of weeks or something like that.  And then you reported to wherever they told you and went off on a flying control  officer’s course.  And I did the basic one at Watchfield.  I don’t know whether [unclear] in Watchfield but I don’t know where it is now and [pause] what was I going to say?&#13;
JL:  Did you go on to do a further course after the Watchfield one?&#13;
LT:  Oh no.  No.  I know what it was.  You had to apply.  You had to apply for a station to go to.  Possibly near which was handy for you and I chose Pershore.  A little down the road here and I got it.&#13;
JL:  Excellent.&#13;
LT:  So I did my course and got through that alright.  Went to Pershore and finished my training there and I started doing watches fully trained.  So I became a fully trained [pause] a fully trained control officer.  &#13;
JL:  Based at —&#13;
LT:  Yes.  And the war finished then.&#13;
JL:  Pershore.&#13;
LT:  The war finished then and I thought, oh great.  I’m right near home, you know.  And then we got this signal come around to say the following officers will be inoculated and vaccinated to Transport Command standards and report to New Delhi, India.  Flying out to New Delhi, India you see.  And then we had to report to another place where we all came together and there were seventeen of us and they converted what was the other bomber?  [pause] There was a Lancaster and the Halifax and the other one.  I can’t think of it.  Anyway, they converted this one, put seats in it and I forget where we went from now but we flew out to India in that and we went all along the North African Coast dropping down to get refuelled in various places and eventually we got to Karachi and that was the start of my Indian thing.  I was out there a year.&#13;
JL:  So when you got this missive through to say that you had to get your jabs and report —&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  To New Delhi.  What was your first thought?&#13;
LT:  Oh.&#13;
JL:  Absolutely.  You’d done all that work.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And you were being sent away again.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Because it was a lovely feeling when the war finished.  You thought when can I get out?  And there I was.  I was, I know I was number forty four my demob number was and I forget what it was.  It was about thirty when I found out about it and off I went and it was the best thing I ever did.&#13;
JL:  Tell me a little bit about your time in India then.  So you started off at Karachi.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Posted to India there.  October 26th.  I went to Lyneham and we flew to Castel Benito, right and Shaibah.  Mauripur and that’s in [pause] we split up then.  I went, then we went, no.  We went from there to New Delhi.  The seventeen of us.  &#13;
JL:  So how long did this journey take?&#13;
LT:  October the 26th to November the 2nd.  &#13;
JL:  Goodness.  When you think they could hop on an aircraft now.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  And be there in a few hours.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  But that must have been quite an adventure.  &#13;
LT:  Oh, it was.  Yeah.  Because they allowed us to go out when we got to these various places.  Yeah.  Oh, it was very good.&#13;
JL:  And was there a bit of a sense that now the war was over it was more of an adventure.  It wasn’t quite so —&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  Yes.  We got that feeling.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And as an officer now did you have better —&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  Conditions.&#13;
LT:  Always go to the Officer’s Mess wherever you were.  Yes.  That was a much better thing.  Yeah.  And then I went to 36 Staging Post in Hakimpet from November to January.  That’s near Hyderabad.&#13;
JL:  And what were you doing there?&#13;
LT:  A flying control officer.  &#13;
JL:  Ok.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  So that meant you were based at an airfield.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  In charge of everything that came in.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And went out.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  That’s right.  Yes.  I did a few watches because I was fully trained then.  A few watches and then I took over and I was alright.  And then I thought I was finished there didn’t I and then they posted me to Chittagong in East Bengal and I thought oh my God, you know.  But that was another trip.  I went down to Madras and I went up to Calcutta.  I went down the Brahmaputra River to get to Chittagong.  They didn’t fly me at all.  I had to go by train and that was quite an adventure that was.  &#13;
JL:  I bet it was.&#13;
LT:  And your hotels you were booked in.  They let you go in a hotel and —&#13;
JL:  So, you were now mid-twenties.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  A young man seeing the world.&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And what did you think of it?&#13;
LT:  Marvellous.  Marvellous.  &#13;
JL:  Did you enjoy India?&#13;
LT:  I enjoyed every minute of it.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And how were you received by the Indian people that you met just locally?&#13;
LT:  Not bad at all.  Yes.  Yeah.  Yes.  Not bad at all.  And my big tale about Chittagong was that I met Pandit Nehru there.  You’ve heard of Pandit Nehru haven’t you?  Well, he flew [pause] I was on, on watch, completely in charge of everything and this Airspeed Oxford came into the circuit and asked if they could land you see.  And then suddenly cars started coming up from here, there and everywhere and parked here and there.  Landed it and it was Pandit Nehru.  They’d got a strike on down in Chittagong and he’d come down to do what he could do and it was chaos.  Of course, these couldn’t care less.  Pandit Nehru was coming.  And the CO sent for me you see and he said, sorry he sent for me and he said, ‘You’re in charge.’ He said, ‘Now, go out and put him right.’ You see.  So I went out and I met Pandit Nehru and I told him that if he wanted to take off again no cars had got to come near the airfield or else we wouldn’t let him take off.  And he said, ‘Ok.’ That was it.&#13;
JL:  Well, I’m sure you said it very politely.&#13;
LT:  I did.  Yeah [laughs] And he went and did his thing and he phoned up the next day to say he wanted to take off at a certain time and I said, ‘Don’t forget what I said yesterday.’ And he came up and we were quite good friends when he took off.  Shook hands with him and I thought well I’ve met Pandit Nehru now.&#13;
JL:  That’s your claim to fame isn’t it?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yeah.  Yeah&#13;
JL:  Yeah.  So ,as the officer in charge of the airfield were you invited by the local population to, I don’t know dinners or golf clubs or, you hear of this sort of colonial lifestyle going on.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Did you?&#13;
LT:  The Gurkhas guarded us while we were there and there were, there were officers there and in my hall you’ll see a kukri.  They gave me that when I was, they gave me that kukri.  Its falling to pieces now but yes we could go down there to the various places you know.  I’d got my own jeep and everything.  Quite free when I was off duty and you were near the seaside as well.  So, so yes it was quite a good place to be.&#13;
JL:  So you could go down to the beach.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And what, what was happening in that area at that time?  What were you doing there?  What were the British doing there?&#13;
LT:  Well, nothing actually.  There was loads of vehicles there because they’d put them all there to invade Burma and it didn’t come off did it?  It didn’t come off so they were all laid there.  So we all had a vehicle if we wanted one and I had a jeep.  So, so, well the main job was that there was a through flow of traffic you know through.  Through to the other thing.  And believe it or not there were a lot of coffin runs they called them and they were American aircraft, Dakotas mainly that were shipping American bodies back to America and they came through Chittagong.  &#13;
JL:  Where were they coming from?  From the war in the Far East?&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  From the Far East war.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So you —&#13;
LT:  Because it had finished hadn’t it and they were getting these bodies out and they called it the coffin run and they used to refuel at Chittagong.&#13;
JL:  So you were pretty much a stopping off point on —&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  On the route.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And that was one of your main jobs.  &#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  &#13;
JL:  Was to coordinate the passing by of various —&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yes.  Through traffic.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So what happened towards the end of your time there?  Were you aware that this was going to be your last tour?&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  yes.  I’d got a demob number.  44 it was.&#13;
JL:  Yeah.&#13;
LT:  And it was posted up, the demob number was and I came up very close and I was offered a job somewhere.  It would mean a promotion and I said, ‘No.  I’m going home.’&#13;
JL:  Would that have a been a job out in India?  Staying out in India.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yeah.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  But you wanted to go home by this point.&#13;
LT:  That’s right.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  But you enjoyed India.&#13;
LT:  Oh, yeah.  It was wonderful.  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  I went to Calcutta.  They made me sports officer there as well and [pause] are we alright for time are we?&#13;
JL:  Yeah.  Fine.  Fine.&#13;
LT:  And we had a Dakota.  Do you remember the old Dakota?  The CO flew up with me to Calcutta in this Dakota and they loaded.  Oh, this was under orders.  They loaded all this sports equipment on so that we could take it back and keep the people occupied because the war was finished you see.  So that was another job I had and quite good that.&#13;
JL:  It does sound good.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  So eventually you get, your demob number comes up.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And can you remember the actual day?  The moment that that happened.  &#13;
LT:  [unclear] &#13;
JL:  How did it come through?  Would it come through just —&#13;
LT:  Oh, it would come through as a signal.&#13;
JL:  Right.  &#13;
LT:  Through to the station.&#13;
JL:  And this would have been in 1946 are we in now?&#13;
LT:  36 Staging Post, Hakimpet.  Madras, Calcutta.  27 Staging Post, Chittagong, Bengal.  Worli Camp.  I went to Bombay to come home by boat.&#13;
JL:  You went by boat.  Ok.&#13;
LT:  By boat.  Yes.  Yes.  So that was it.  And —&#13;
JL:  What was the journey home like on the boat?&#13;
LT:  Good.  Quite good.  Quite good.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Now you were in the officer’s —&#13;
LT:  In the officer’s, yes.  I had an officer’s duty to do.  ‘Any complaints?’ So I was repatriated by sea in the SS Canton and we went through Suez, Gibraltar, Southampton.  On August the 16th 1946 I came out.&#13;
JL:  A good moment or a sad moment?&#13;
LT:  No.  A good moment.  &#13;
JL:  You were ready to move on.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So, just tell me briefly, Les.  What happened then?  Did you come home to Droitwich and —&#13;
LT:  Yes.  I had a nice long leave and I got married.  That was the main thing that happened.&#13;
JL:  So you must have met your wife to be —&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.&#13;
JL:  Beforehand.&#13;
LT:  Oh, yes.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  Long distance courting all these years.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  I was, I was engaged to her before I went out to India and we wrote.  We’ve got lots of letters we wrote to each other.  Yeah.  &#13;
JL:  No wonder you wanted to come home.  You hadn’t mentioned that you’d met —&#13;
LT:  Oh no.&#13;
JL:  The woman that you were going to marry.&#13;
LT:  Oh yes.  We had a good flow of letters.&#13;
JL:  So where did you meet?&#13;
LT:  Meet Dot?  &#13;
JL:  Yeah.  Where did you meet?&#13;
LT:  Oh, earlier on in my life.  She came, do you know [unclear]&#13;
JL:  I do.  &#13;
LT:  With the station there, the petrol station there.  Well, my sister was married to Doug Miles and his father owned that and they were friendly with Dot’s parents and she came over to Droitwich and we used to meet up there.  She was only about fifteen sixteen and we played, you know.&#13;
JL:  So this was before you —&#13;
LT:  Before I went in the workforces.&#13;
JL:  Goodness me.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And your relationship survived all those years.  &#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  Well, that’s a lovely story.&#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  So you were married in ’46.  &#13;
LT:  Yes.&#13;
JL:  And then settled in Droitwich and have been here ever since.  &#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Yeah.  I went to live, we went to live in Birmingham for two years and then got this house.  &#13;
JL:  And how did you move into civilian life?  Seamlessly or was it hard?&#13;
LT:  I don’t, I don’t think it was hard at all.  I got, I got loads of confidence I felt.  Yeah.  And I was a red hot Labour supporter then and when I got back they got to find out about that [laughs] So I was, that was another story that was.  Yes.&#13;
JL:  What did you do for a job, Les?&#13;
LT:  I went back as a pattern maker.&#13;
JL:  Did you?  Back to Longbridge?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Oh yes.  They had to keep your job for you.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  And had you finished your apprenticeship before you left?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  So you came back as a skilled pattern maker.&#13;
LT:  Yes.  Oh no.  I hadn’t.  I hadn’t quite finished my apprenticeship.  No.  I’m sorry.  My dad signed me off.  I forget what time it was now and in the, in the process pattern makers they did a job evaluation on skilled trades.  Pattern makers came top.  So I came back to work at Longbridge and I got ten pound a week and that was really something that was.  That was a good wage.  All my friends they were around about seven, six or seven pounds in various jobs.  I came back at ten pounds.&#13;
JL:  So you’d done well.&#13;
LT:  Yeah.  Did well.  Yeah.&#13;
JL:  And did you stay at Longbridge for a long time?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  I stayed there ‘til I was sixty.&#13;
JL:  Man and boy.&#13;
LT:  And then I took redundancy.  Yes.  They offered the money and that was it.  I got out.&#13;
JL:  Les, I’m sure there’s a whole other story there but I feel that I must let you go.  But just to sort of sum up what we’ve talked about can you pull out of your wartime memories for me any particular highlights?  Anything that you would like to tell you grandchildren or great grandchildren or great great grandchildren in the future.  &#13;
LT:  Well, it’s, well I, I could relate quite a lot of various little things you know.  I don’t think I’d go into the feelings of [pause] I’d tell them about, you know dropping bombs and things like that and the aeroplanes and that but I don’t think I’d go any further than that.  No.  Because the one’s at it now.  He waits for me when I go over and he wants to talk about the aeroplanes.  That’s —&#13;
JL:  A lovely card with an aeroplane drawing.  Does that make you feel quite proud?&#13;
LT:  Yes.  I’ve got a lovely family.  A wonderful family.  Yes.  Yes.  &#13;
JL:  Well, it’s been absolutely fascinating talking to you, Les.  Thank you ever so much for your time.&#13;
LT:  Thank you for putting up with me.  I didn’t think I was going to stand this.</text>
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                  <text>Two items. The collection concerns Sergeant Joseph Fear (2216622 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book and a letter. He flew operations as a flight engineer on 207 Squadron and was killed 08 July 1944.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The collection was donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Dennis James Powell and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Additional information on Joseph Fear is available via the&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/107450/"&gt;IBCC Losses Database.&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                <text>Joseph Fear’s Royal Air Force Flying Log Book from 6th March 1944 until 17th July 1944 when listed as missing presumed dead. Trained as a flight engineer. Posted to 1654 Conversion Unit, No. 5 Lancaster Finishing School, and, in April 1944, to 207 Squadron for operations.&#13;
&#13;
Served at RAF Syerston, RAF Spilsby.&#13;
&#13;
Aircraft flown were Stirling, Lancaster III.&#13;
&#13;
Joseph completed 16 night bombing operations with 207 Squadron. His targets were Tours, Bourg-Leopold, Amiens, Duisburg, Brunswick, Antwerp, St Valery, Étampes, Caen, Aunay-sur-Odon, Beauvoir, Wesseling, Pommeréval, Marquis Mimoyecques, St Leu D’Esserent.&#13;
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His aircraft failed to return from the operation to St Leu D’Esserent on the night of 7/8th June 1944. He was killed in action.&#13;
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                  <text>9 items. The collection concerns Ronald Albert Flynn (b.1924, 1811716 Royal Air Force) and contains an oral history interview, his log book, course notes, correspondence and photographs. He completed a tour of operations as a flight engineer with 75 Squadron. &#13;
&#13;
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              <text>SP: This is Suzanne Pescott and I am interviewing Squadron Leader Stanley Booker MBE, Legion d’Honneur today for the International Bomber Command Centre’s Digital Archive. Stanley was a navigator with 10 Squadron and was shot down on the 2nd/3rd of June 1944 on a mission to bomb the railway marshalling yards in Trappes in preparation for D-Day. We are at Stanley’s home. This is the 7th of October 2024. Also present at the interview is Pat Vinycomb, Stan’s daughter. So, first of all thank you Stanley for agreeing to chat to us today about your time within World War Two. So, can you tell me a little bit first of all about your time before the war? What you did before the war.&#13;
SB: Being a typical schoolboy with love of things mechanic and to do with the Army, the armed forces, everything like that at Chatham we had everything. We never knew for instance that Nelson’s famous Victory which everybody knows is one of the most famous ships going was actually built of Kentish oak in Chatham Dockyard. Apparently Kentish oak was the most beneficial for shipping and he had that built at Chatham and then everything that followed on. Trafalgar and all that. But we never knew at school that happened. But there was everything for boys. They built the warships in the dockyard from, from the days of using oak until they graduated through to steam. At that stage they found that they were training people to build the ships. They weren’t training people to sail in them. So they then opened up a Royal Naval barracks. It was then found that the British Navy was such a good example after the various conflicts we’ve been in so they always carried a party of Marines, Royal Marines on board and the Royal Marines were only soldiers in Naval uniforms or the Naval people in soldier’s uniforms. The main thing being that they found that gunnery became so accurate they could fire a cannon ball not so much to hit the woodwork and damage the ship but to hit the main mast and if you could hit the main mast meant the sails all fell down. If the sails fell down the ship couldn’t operate any further. At that stage your little party of Marines leapt aboard with a horrible thing called a cutlas and they would produce it and just about slaughter anything they could see and that was a cheap way of getting a warship and bringing it back. So Chatham then became a Training Centre for Marines as well. Lovely for little boys. Then they started the Royal Engineers who had all the campaigns overseas when we had a mighty empire and the British Army occupied everything from North Africa right on through down through Egypt. Down to Sudan. Right down to, to the very bottom. And they found that sailing down the Nile was a long lengthy process. Why not have your own railway? So they brought the Royal Engineers who could do anything that they were told to do. They did it. And they took a big piece of land near Aldershot and there they formed the Locomotive Training School for the how to lay track. So when they had an overseas campaign they took their own trains, their own track and they got to the destination that much better. So that’s even more for little boys to get involved in. Each would have his own training area in the Medway towns and for little boys that meant things that moved. Things of action. Tank. Well, tanks really hadn’t been invented then but there was new, new things coming out all the time which the engineers practiced on. The various bridges, various types of construction. They had an Officer’s Training School there where they had the grounds outside. Where they had demonstrations of this. Demonstrations. Everything that the engineers built and they had an Open Day once a year where you could go down and wander around. Ask questions. You had the wonderful Flying Boat station nearby. Short’s. Short’s Brothers. They’d been initially training. When the Navy thought they needed more reconnaissance they put, Short’s put floats on aircraft for them and then they put them on the, on the ships. They had ships then with the catapult. They’d catapult the ship, the aircraft off but with the floats they could come and land in the sea and a big crane would haul it back on again. So for little boys there was the dockyard, there was the actual Naval barracks, the Royal Engineers side and even more so that every warship that sailed from England overseas it wasn’t generally known that they took along one set of armament for, to a campaign. They had, they to go to war in the Middle East. They had that but held back at Chatham was the largest ammunition depot enscooped in the hill and there was four sets of complete ammunition for every ship in the Royal Navy. So if a ship needed a replacement or something like that there were somewhere there was a pack made up and this was all bits of information because five of us, there were five of us little schoolboys. When it came to weekends Saturday morning couldn’t come quick enough. On to our bicycles. And we each had fathers that were in interesting jobs and could drop little secrets out that we shouldn’t know about and one of them was the fact that every ship that came up as far as Chatham had to stop by two big forts in the middle of the river and then they would offload little [pause] all the ammunition from every ship that had got that far and it was taken down to a place called Upnor Castle. The castle they built after the Dutch one night did what the Japanese did to the Americans. Sailed up the Medway and sunk half the British Navy. But they weren’t taught about that at school. It was told that we’d built this castle and the ships then put the ammunition away. It was tucked away in there and people didn’t officially know it was there. But we had somebody who had a father there and we knew where this went and where that went. But as far as the Flying Boats were concerned the lady next door had a boyfriend who was working in there and when we knew they had a new seaplane or Flying Boat in we were down there always watching it. If you had some secret equipment on a, on a new Flying Boat which they didn’t want the public to see if it was published in the book it was scribbled over and obliterated. Yet if anybody took the trouble to walk along the sea front by the factory there would be one being towed out and they’d run up the engines and whilst they were running up the engines you could see then that all the guns and you could see how. Be wondering how did the Flying Boat manage to open its bomb doors and not get all the water come in. It didn’t have any bomb doors. It had sliding things under the wing where you could slide out with the bombs on it. Little things like that. And then this wonderful little scale model of a four-engine bomber started flying around the area. It was a complete scale model right down to the turrets, the gun turrets and little engines were made in the nearby factory and this, this thing we didn’t really know was the prototype for the first RAF four engine bomber. The Stirling. And every day, every week, Saturdays long we’d be up there and were they going to roll a Stirling out this week or whether they are they going to roll this week. Just hoping it would happen and something would go wrong. All little boys wanted a crash. You could see a crash or something. And the very week that I joined the Air Force on my seventeenth birthday I was posted to the Royal Air Force Records Office. Records Office at Ruislip near Uxbridge in Middlesex. We were posted there. That very weekend they wheeled out the first time the new aircraft out of the hangar. The crew got on board. They flew two circuits around the airfield, came in to land and the undercarriage collapsed and there was this lovely shiny new bomber we’d been waiting all this time to see and I was the one in the Air Force and missed it. My other four pals there never ever got over the sight of this great bomber tumbling across there. There was little things like that that just made the Medway towns for little boys’ attraction. There was Navy Week. Then there was always the same submarines that were built there were to turn up. The same crews that as would have built them would turn up and then the Navy would sent some aircraft to cross and do a dummy attack. That happened every year on Navy Days. So you had a week with the Navy competing with the Army who they put on an Army display of bridging and everything they could like that. So the Royal Air Force then stepped in and they built the first Sunderland Flying Boats which we officially didn’t know anything about but somebody’s father worked there so we had the inside information on where they could fly and what they could do and what they didn’t have. Where the gun turrets worked. All little boys delight. Everybody’s father had something to contribute.&#13;
SP: Stanley —&#13;
SB: In a, in a way that just made going to school something you did for four days of the week but Saturday morning despite belonging to the Scouts, the very active Scouts we had a Scout Leader who was the school, one of the schoolteachers who during the war had served in the Royal Engineers. So he, we had permission to use all the exercise area which the Army used and the Army was sometimes careless with what they left around so there was always pairs of pincers and things like that. Or if they were doing explosions and you were warned and something attracted. What you did on a Saturday was just sheer adventure. And then you’d get down as far as the entrance to the Royal Medway and Medway and the Royal Thames where the two met off Sheerness the big warships couldn’t get any further up the river because it was so shallow and they’d moor off there and then they’d do their practices. And then you see them offload their, all this ammunition on to the little barges and into another railway which didn’t exist. That just went all the way down the Isle of Sheppey and it was just marshland and you ended up by these two huge airship sheds, airship sheds which in the First War were used by the Navy to do reconnaissance and they’d just fly ahead of the ships and send messages back. Well, they replaced those by the actual Flying Boats but there was all the more information we had. So it was. Altogether it was a dream. And I was in the Air Force then but on a non-operational station but it was near RAF Northolt and Northolt of course was the first station to get the new Hurricane fighter and they chose a day when there was a tremendous gale blowing and they made the headlines on the paper ‘Britain’s first six hundred miles an hour winged aircraft’. And then it flew from Northolt to Edinburgh in some amazing speed because the wind was actually stronger than the engine that took the aircraft. But we led the world. Britain led the world now in the Hurricane. It had the Spitfire and then things got a little more lively. They found that most of the Spitfires, well, all of the Spitfires in fact were made in the one factory down in south, Southampton and they said they thought if one day they bombed that there would be problems. So they had to find alternatives like that and all sorts of motor factories were able to turn out spare parts for this and that and they made Spitfires on four or five different locations which people didn’t realise. That’s how they did it. But we, they just thought if they bombed that one factory that  then we were in trouble. So, there was all, in fact we were in the Air Force we didn’t see many aeroplanes until D-Day. Until the time came for, the war broke out and we had to bring all the soldiers back from Dunkirk and this was hundreds and hundreds. Well, according to the statistics there was three hundred soldiers brought off the beaches at Dunkirk and it was this very shallow water so soldiers had to wade out to little landing ships. Anything that would go. Paddle steamers, anything that would get near, near to the shore. The soldiers could wade out so and then they’d be taken to Dover and of course England with having so many troops all over in France all had to leave all their equipment in France. There was lots of empty barracks in England so a train would just pull into, into Dover. They’d push as many soldiers onboard as they could and there would be these lovely pictures of ladies with trays of tea holding them up to the lads in the train and the trains would just push off to where there was some, anywhere in the country where there was an empty barracks. They brought these people back from Dunkirk so we were kept in touch with what was going on. And at the same time they decided that the RAF would publish a document that would say where every airfield was, Bomber Command airfield was going to be built the following year. But the secret documents were so secret that they’d never let anybody see it and the actual document that came from Air Ministry had given a list of the airfields that would be finished by the end of the next year. But because it was not told to the right people the Department and Record Office got the version that seventy-two airfields that were going to be finished next year were all ready and they had to be manned immediately. Which meant of course places like Record Office where you had all the Air Force at your hands you had to suddenly produce enough people to go to these stations and when they got there of course the stations didn’t exist. We had this ridiculous situation when we each joined the Air Force, one of the first forms you filled in was preference for first posting on completion of training and we all put down the airfields nearest home. I had one at Detling just four miles down the road. We had another one at Eastchurch just fifteen miles and they were all on the documents and suddenly this thing came down from Air Ministry saying the secret document which we weren’t allowed to see. But one morning we all got an envelope to say we were no longer apprentices. We were, the next day we were to parade outside on the parade ground and there there was four or five desks lined up and one desk had the counting officer had lots of money stacked up in front of him. Somebody else had bags and bags of food. The cook apparently on the station was allowed three and sixpence a day for food and so as everybody had had breakfast it was three and sixpence less worth of food. It was called the unconsumed portion of a day’s ration. There was a piece of cake, there was a big cheese sandwich, a Mars bar and something else in this bag and you were each given one of these. We were given an envelope but which for the railway station and it was sealed up so it wasn’t opened. And somebody came along with a big pair of scissors and as apprentices we had what they called an apprentices wheel sewn on our left part of our uniform and he very, not very carefully came along, was told to recover all these, these things. And the little flight sergeant in charge of us who weren’t having his boys looking not smart stopped it straight away and they got some of the wives came in quick and they quickly sewed up where the sergeant had cut these rings off. And little things like that that you remembered. And it wasn’t until we got to the railway station at Ruislip to take us to London to go to the, what we thought would have been the stations we’d applied for before the war we couldn’t make out and my one said, ‘Posted to RAF Station Worksop.” And we didn’t know anywhere an RAF station at Worksop. I mean as the Records we knew where most places were. In fact, we all anticipated where we were going to go at the end of our training. We always made sure the two and a half year cycle of moving airmen on there was always going to be a vacancy that month you were due to pass out for you to go into. Instead of what, instead of my having one for an RAF Station Detling which was only just four or five miles from home here I was. All they could find was a Yorkshire one. A place called whatever it was near Doncaster. On the railway line between Doncaster and Sheffield. And we arrived at there. There was no, nobody on the station and we did talk if there was an airfield there how do we get to it? Where is everybody? Anyway, we sat on the station for a while and the station master come to us and says, ‘Can I help you laddie?’ I said, you know, ‘Where do we get the bus or transport out to the airfield?’ He said, ‘What airfield?’ I said, ‘Well, here’s my railway warrant. They sent us here.’ He said, ‘Well, I’ve lived here all my life lad.’ He said, ‘No airfield here at all.’ So, oh dear, oh dear. So he said, ‘The best thing, I’ll ring up the local bobby.’ The local bobby in Worksop. It was only a little mining village so it had a pit nearby but policemen didn’t have cars in those days you had a bicycle and the sergeant came riding out and said, ‘What’s happened?’ And so the station master said, ‘Well, the lad here has got all his kit. Posted to an RAF station. We don’t know anything about that.’ So the policeman said, ‘Well, I don’t and I’ve lived here all my life.’ And at that stage it was the day after they’d brought the troops home from, from the beaches and all they did was packed them on trains and sent them off home to various barracks and it so happens that Manchester had one of these auxiliary stations where everybody that belonged to the squadron lived in Manchester or local volunteers and they’d given these lads who’d come home, they’d gave them some, or they borrowed some lorries, I don’t know and they were making their home, their way home to Manchester when they stopped outside the station apparently and were in the pub having one or two beers or whatever they wanted to do and the policeman went across. He said, ‘Can you help us? We’ve got an airman on the, in here who’s lost. He’s lost an airfield and it doesn’t exist.’ They said, ‘Well, the bloody Air Force. It was typical of them. They left us on the beaches of Dunkirk and couldn’t fly, couldn’t help us at all so let him get on with it.’ So the sergeant came back and said, ‘Well, they’re an awful shower and they’re not going to help us at all. Let’s ring up Air Ministry.’ But 4 o’clock or 5 o’clock on a Friday afternoon even early in the war everybody had packed up and gone home and there was always a just a recording saying if you have a query ring back on Monday morning. So the policeman said, ‘Well, I don’t know what we’re going to do with him. I’d give him a jail, a seat in our jail for, for the weekend.’ At that time there was a knock on the door and a little soldier came and said, ‘Excuse me officers.’ They were respectful to policemen in those days. He said, ‘I heard the sergeant being very rude just now to the, to your laddie,’ he said. ‘I live at, I live in Sheffield,’ he said ‘There’s a little airfield at Netherthorpe out there. It’s a little private one where three or four rich industrialists keep a little light aircraft there and they just fly from there now and again.’ He said, ‘And as I was passing yesterday I noticed that a new, a real aeroplane, an RAF one on the airfield, a new one we hadn’t seen called a Lysander. It was specially built for the Army,’ he said and, ‘There were some RAF lorries around and there was a flag post and a flying RAF so it looks as though the RAF were interested in that.’ So the policeman said, ‘Oh, well thank you, lad.’ He’d done us proudly. He got on his bike and cycled all the way across and when he got there he found that they were the advanced party for the City of Manchester Auxiliary Squadron who before the actual war had gone to France. The aircraft they were using, had been using weren’t, wasn’t much good and they left those behind and they gave the airmen all, they put them in parties of about one hundred under an NCO and said, ‘Make your way home,’ from the middle of France, ‘To the Dover coast and meet at a place in Kent where the squadron will reassemble.’ And it was those people that were coming up to this airfield and taking it over and to us back came the policeman who said, ‘Well, you’re alright. They’ll put you up for tonight. All they’ve got there is an officer and an aircraft he’s flown in and four or five lorries. A cookhouse lorry and a guardroom. He said, ‘We’ll put you up for the night,’ and when he comes the morning the [pause] officer in charge said, ‘Look after this lad.’ He’d done this, the five or six days we were in England when we came back from France the RAF didn’t, couldn’t do much for us. They put us in this little village and the people in the pub they did us very very well indeed. And so much by a remarkable coincidence years and years later when I heard Radio Oxford and Radio [Cymru ?] the owner of the pub. The lads that had been helped was the son of the announcer and he said one night about this and they all wrote back in saying how well they’d been looked after by these Kentish people. They couldn’t. And I was just supposed to have been posted to one of the airfields there. So, back on the, back on the new airfield I couldn’t do anything wrong like. They, they’d been looked after so well and so it went on. The CO said, ‘I’ve got these new, new aircraft.’ The Battle of Britain was on and there were odd Germans flying around shooting at RAF lonely people. He said, ‘We’ve got, I’ve got this new, this new Lysander. It’s got a machine gun in the back but there’s nobody here to operate it.’ He says, ‘If you are just staying for a couple of days wait till I get sorted out and get people trained. Would you ride? Go in the back and operate the, the machine gun if necessary. Well, little boys had never seen a machine gun as much as had a real one to look at and so it was wonderful. And after the third day the CO sent for me and said, ‘Well, you did such a good job getting this place ready for me coming back. Got the officers to fiddle this,’ and he said, ‘Would you like to stay with us for a few more weeks until we get reformed?’ I said, ‘Well, yes. Very much so.’ And I stayed with them for two years. And during that week the first few weeks I had a mishap and they put me in the local hospital and it so happened the local hospital were trying an experiment for the Air Ministry that had discovered that Sheffield and Rotherham, two, two biggest steel manufacturing places in the country were just six or seven miles apart and then but that was heavily bombed. The docks. The coast of shipping firms, the merchant ships, Naval war ships were all built with Sheffield steel. It would be a disaster. At the same time the Army came along and said, ‘Well, we need Sheffield steel for our guns we’re building for, for all the munition that is being made and for our new tanks.’ So they suddenly said, ‘Well, we’ll take over a civilian hospital and put some nurses in there to train them up’ in case Sheffield was bombed and they had some trainee, some at least some trained nurses on the spot to do some rescue. And there that afternoon my good lady was one of the first party of nurses to be brought in to make sense and the sister said, ‘Well, all your Army forms are all different to our ones.’ There was no National Health in those days but each county or each Health Service had its own forms. They said, ‘Well, we’ve got to make this work somehow.’ And she divided these three nurses that came in with my wife and me and we just sat there right on through to midnight just putting matching up where one overlapped, one wherever we could change the number and the name and that. And I found that all I was doing for local people in Yorkshire there and all she was doing was for people who had come up from Kent with an airfield where we’d been assembling down there. So I learned more about Yorkshire in a few nights and she learned more about Kent where she’d never been in her life and so we had a lovely romance started right along as the war was just getting underway. And I was all of nineteen and my good lady was all of twenty and I was starting my flying and had another mishap and she did some nursing for me. And I joined Bomber Command and there was so many casualties in Bomber Command they encouraged you on our squadron to get as much if you were married, spend as much time as you could and you were probably this was where you’d come to reminiscence the airfields in Yorkshire.&#13;
SP: Driffield?&#13;
SB: Melbourne.&#13;
SP: Melbourne.&#13;
SB: Was one of the utility ones and 10 Squadron being a real good old peacetime one had a very comfortable peacetime airfield just outside of York. But the Americans, the Canadians came across and they moved us out. Gave us one of the new utility wooden Nissen hutted one which happened to be Melbourne and was just being finished by the, there were hundreds and hundreds of Irishmen that had come across and they were building. Still building parts for the airfield. And the squadron were assembled then with the new Mark 3 Halifax come in which made all the difference in the world. So all of a sudden they’d gone from a very comfortable station right on the outskirts of York to somewhere way out in the country miles from anywhere with literally nowhere to go or nothing much to do except the village pub. And there happened to be a windmill nearby but I don’t think the pub was called the Windmill but Patricia would know that one. And that was the only place for lads to go. And later on, a year later when I was, I had been caught and had been interrogated all they did, the German secret police wanted to know was what price was the beer, what type of the beer was, what were the names of the barmaids, who were the easy ones and that. So that when anybody was shot down they could confound a lad. He was saying oh is so-and-so serving on the beer or on the bar or is so-and so-there and they were so shocked with this information they’d got that the pub became famous. So, the war finished and overnight the Halifaxes were disbanded and the Bomber Command didn’t want the Halifaxes anymore. For two days they just loaded them up with bombs and more bombs and you just flew out to the North Sea to this German island of Heligoland. It was, it was occupied but, parts of it but and dropped hundreds and hundreds of bombs there ‘til the third day, the second or third day when they ran out of bombs. They said come back, the squadron is being disbanded and you will be fly the aircraft over to this airfield at Shawbury there, near Shrewsbury and they parked it there. So, Melbourne had nothing there but when we went back there was a row of twelve brand new Dakota transports and they were a very popular American civilian aircraft. A DC2 too. It was just flown with two pilots and then where these pilots, the RAF took over hundreds of them to tow parachutists and that in for D-Day and they had decided that all 4 Group which was all Lanc, all Halifaxes were to be converted on to these Dakotas and then flown out to India where of course the war was still on. It was a very secret about the nuclear weapons and overnight they blew the weapons, the war finished and nobody wanted anything. At Melbourne they said they’d disbanded all the crews. Just kept the pilots and the navigators and one or two wireless operators and disbanded the rest and sent them on leave. I’d been kept for seven weeks by the Russians until the war, after the war —&#13;
SP: Stanley, just before we go on to that bit we’re just going to go back a little bit to your time at Melbourne. So, obviously you got posted to Melbourne for your operations.&#13;
SB: Yeah.&#13;
SP: Yeah. Can you remember anything about the operations that you were on whilst you were based at Melbourne? Can you?&#13;
SB: Well, that’s, it was a bit of a, you didn’t really know. It was [pause] if I might say 10 Squadron had formed, had reformed with new crews at Abingdon and when we got up to Riccall where they were doing the conversion they found they had the aircraft but they didn’t have the ground crew. They didn’t know what to do with the aircrew so they sent us over to this abandoned airfield at Driffield and they gave us about twenty what we called rock apes. They were the RAF Regiment and the idea was to toughen up each crew with Battle School and generally give evasion and escape exercises and things like that. And there was no aircraft. There was aircraft waiting but nothing for us. Eventually because we did very well there we were recommended to go to Number 10 Squadron because that was the, considered to be the ace squadron. When we got there it was the start of getting ready for D-Day. We didn’t know it but D-Day was planned for the 6th of April.&#13;
PV: June.&#13;
SB: 6th of June 1944 and the weather was bad and it was put off from the 5th to the 6th and that and we had just the airfield. The aircraft would take off and they had to hit any targets along the coast between the Rhineland in Germany where they thought the invasion forces were to start to assemble. Right along as far as Paris and night after night after night they’d just pick up various airfields, various targets and they just bombed and bombed and bombed the railway lines as much as possible to make it difficult. And the first targets, in fact all the targets we did from then until D-Day itself were just railway stations, railway lines, railway assembly paths. Anything where the Germans would have to bring troops through and it was not operational flying in a dangerous sort of way because you were only just about twenty miles inside the country and if you were shot down you had friendly French people looking to help you. So it wasn’t like the Lancasters who were all doing the long-distance trips then into Germany itself and they were getting the casualties, the Lanc. The Halifaxes were doing particularly well because a railway station didn’t have any anti-aircraft guns or anything like that. It was only just that unfortunately on the night of the 3rd of June they decided to have a large raid in Germany and a small raid just outside of Paris. And they assembled them to go off from the same departure point in Kent and the German radar apparently picked up that our small raid that was going to Paris because they set off first was the main force and they had assembled sixty-five night fighters and kept them on the ground until they got the radar interpretation of where it was happening and sent them all down to Paris where this happened. A hundred and fifty RAF bombers were just getting the sky to themselves. And Trappes, Trappes became the signal for easy bombing and we had, being truthful an easier time in Bomber Command than actual Bomber Command itself and I, my logbook was not, the thing I notice your son’s logbook is very neat and tidy. One of the problems during the war for some reason you could get any sort of ink you wanted but you couldn’t get red ink and your logbook had to be made up of all day flying in ordinary ink but night flying had to be in red ink. But you just couldn’t get it and usually one bottle was held by the flight commander and you’d make a note on a piece of paper or on a sheet of your trips and once a month then you’d, he opened up to say and bring out this bottle of red ink and you could make your logbook up then and that. And unfortunately I got shot down the week it was my turn to make a logbook up. So all they did was gave somebody else on the squadron the job of going through the flight commander’s previous month’s flights. Instead of my having nice, neat pages of day and night flights there was just somebody had copied out and some of it was wrong. I was flying with other crews when somebody was missing and that. It’s a complete shambles and in the logbook which you normally would have been very proud of. As for the targets we were right up from Christmas 1943 to when they decided they would start bombing the railways I can truthfully say and I wouldn’t like it published but —&#13;
[recording paused]&#13;
SB: In Germany without the Lancasters flying inland. The Halifaxes —&#13;
[recording interrupted]&#13;
SB: Night fighters suddenly attacked us. Raid. There were a hundred and twenty Halifaxes and out of that seventeen Halifaxes were shot down and the crews mostly dispersed around if they were lucky and had baled out. But so many of them like ours lost their pilots, lost their, they didn’t lose their navigators and our casualty rate was far less than anybody else at all. So it is something very difficult to talk about. And we had done exceptionally well at this so-called Pioneering School where we worked out our own way of dodging the [pause] you were put in a lorry, taken out on a dark night and tried to find your own way home and everywhere was guarded and that. All we did was found a railway station with a name on the station and went to the nearest, they had a thing always called the Auxiliary Fire Service and they were in four or five huts outside a town. So if there was any bombing on the airfields there was a lot of airfields in Yorkshire, you just went, when we just went to them and said, ‘Look, we’re on an exercise tonight. We’ve got to dodge this. We’ve got to dodge that and you being in with one of the lot would protect it if we showed you how we would do it and by flashing your light, pretending you were part of the rescue team you wouldn’t be stopped. I said we did it two nights in a row. Went, got straight through the defences and we got back into the camp. Just went to bed all day and the rest of the people were still roaming around the countryside looking to find their way back in. And when we did it two times twice in a row the officer in charge was so impressed that he wrote to the Air Ministry, Yorkshire people and said, ‘I would recommend this crew for their initiative and for their good —’ whatever they wanted to be. So the name of Murray and crew were accepted as very good and I’m so lucky that I was an observer and our flight commander was also an observer so that we were very very happy. But when we didn’t fly we had a very sensible CO. He said, ‘Just go off and enjoy your families.’ It wasn’t a boozy squadron. There was the one pub and it was full but it was not overflowing or anything like that. And you just took the, somebody had bought a couple of cheap buses and there used to be about every hour or so run a bus in to York and in York there was cinemas in there. There was mainly also an awful lot of Canadians based there and you had nothing really back in Melbourne apart from the pub and you weren’t a pubby crew like ours wasn’t but more or less teetotal. We weren’t a miserable crew. We were a very efficient one and we had practiced these corkscrews and survival that when Sandy my pilot and the wireless op were very seriously hurt it was through his persistence in making us practice what to do quickly if he or somebody was hurt that when it did happen and he was very very terribly wounded but he held on to the aircraft. Held on to the aircraft in a steep dive with the engines cut to control it long enough for us to get this door open, a hatch door and for us to get out. In the meantime he had died unfortunately and I found myself as I told you before. I’d landed halfway up, up a tree and thinking it was a deep, it was a thick forest and I was way up higher and I had to wait until about 3 o’clock or until dawn started breaking before I could realise I was only four or five feet off the ground. When I did fall, when I did just come I landed very heavily on one knee. I damaged it straight away and it got bigger and bigger and then I heard as I say the cockerel. So, then that gave me an idea how to get out of the wood and there was this old gentleman and he showed me this house across the other side of the wood, the valley where this English lady lived and I just couldn’t believe my luck. Here I’d been shot down. I was alive and here I [unclear] to an English lady and all he could say was, ‘She lives in a big house. She’s got it surrounded by heavy barbed wire heavy fencing and has got several very fierce dogs free. They can’t get out but they make a lot of noise if you try and get over the fence. Do not try it. Wait and go around to the one entrance at the front and ring the bell.’ Which I promptly did and at that stage well at that stage it was all over as far as I was concerned. The lady, I started speaking to her in in French and she said, ‘Look I am English,’ she said, ‘But all I know is the Resistance have been ringing around to we people in the Resistance warning that there was a big air raid last night in Paris, at Trappes, the marshalling yards. There was a lot of bombers being crashed around here and today so today they will be very very careful. Germans would be out looking with dogs and all trying to track you down. If any of you have got any of you that you are doubtful about pretending to be an RAF man shot down or better still somebody who was a Pole who spoke not good English but good enough English don’t be taken in because they were the ones that were giving your names away to the Germans and you would be arrested. So be careful. Ask awkward questions and see what they’ve got to say.’ And all the lady said, ‘Do you know much about Brighton?’ I said, ‘Enough.’ She said, ‘Well what part of the east coast is it on?’ I said, ‘Brighton isn’t on the east coast. It’s on the south coast.’ ‘Oh. Is there anything special that Brighton is noted for?’ And there again, all I could think of was it’s where traditionally if you wanted to go away for a naughty weekend with somebody else’s wife Brighton was the place to go. And she said, ‘That would fool the Germans wouldn’t it? They wouldn’t think about that. Can you think of anything else? What sort of sand has it got there?’ So I said, ‘It isn’t sand. It’s all shingles. And that’s got mines in and if you get any heavy weather the explosives of the mines on the beach and you’d get covered in shingles along the front.’ ‘Oh, they wouldn’t know that would they?’ And having convinced her that I was English then she’d locked these, tied these dogs up to a great long leash and took me into the house. This huge big house where she apparently in the First War had come across to France with an English nursing specialist team which was attached to the French Army and there she looked after for the whole of the war a French general who must have been quite a wealthy person because when the war finished she, they got married. But he was so badly hurt that he only lasted about a year and she inherited this huge estate and I was just lucky to be sent there. And, and that started things going completely. As far as getting on to the squadron was concerned well when they suddenly found enough ground crew to release the Mark 3s we came across to Melbourne as a crew being recommended by the people for our evasion and escape methods of dodging and getting, getting through that Murray’s crew was chosen as a very good replacement for this crew. And the fact that I was an observer helped with one of the flight commanders being an observer. So we were welcome on to the squadron but quite frankly every target —&#13;
[recording paused]&#13;
The back of the house where the gardener used and it was just a metal bed and a washbasin where the lady insisted he always washed and cleaned before he brought the vegetables into the house. And there was a knock in the morning about 7 o’clock and it was the tap. Two dots and a dash, two dots and a dash of Beethoven’s whatever it is and it was the correct signal. All I had was a hand towel to hold in my hand and open the door and lo and behold there was a little wee madame, little madame and her very very not so wee maid both in just in their night dresses and the night, and the maid holding a big tray with a large bottle of champagne and three glasses. And there’s a sixteen year, an eighteen year old boy sitting on the bed trying to hold the flannel in the right place, drinking champagne that I’d never drank in my life before but the maid that was very well shaped and she was helping me put my eyes back in again I think at the same time as drinking champagne. I should never forget that morning and thinking what about my poor wife up there? If she knew I was sat starkers on a bed with two French ladies in their nighties drinking champagne she’d never want to speak to me again. It’s one of those things you remember and forget to tell your wife for a while.&#13;
SP: So, this was the day they brought the champagne in because the invasion had happened as on D-Day. So you got —&#13;
SB: Sorry?&#13;
SP: You got the champagne because they had heard D-Day had happened. So whilst you were being held —&#13;
SB: I was actually —&#13;
SP: By the Resistance. Yeah.&#13;
SB: D-Day was only, the actual beach that we had was only about thirty miles away&#13;
SP: Yeah.&#13;
SB: But we were in a valley with leading up to the beaches and troops had to come forward all the time and on the hill opposite where Madame lived they’d put in anti-aircraft defences so that when the RAF aircraft came up the valley the fighters used to come to attack the two airfields there. Madame’s room, house was a little bit too vulnerable with the anti-aircraft guns firing opposite there that they thought they’d better move me to another house. When it came to eleven, about 11 o’clock that morning Madame said the maid would take my, what little bit of clothing I had in a bag and to get to her house there was a little river and it was very shallow. It was full of weeds but it led into the main lake which was deep and there’s a lake between us and the guns, and the anti-aircraft guns. And when these three fighters came up the valley and the guns started firing they dropped their drop tanks and where it’s the same drop tanks they had either for petrol or fuel or for comforts for the, comfort the Resistance. And when they got to the tank it was obviously had fuel in and they just threw it down and went back up the hill again. But Madame thought I’d better move on so the maid took my, I had a little few things in a bag and she took me around through the woods and there on the road top was the new lady who was Madame Oriel. Now, Madame Oriel had a lovely lovely bungalow on the other side of the hill, on the sheltered side but it backed on to a woods so you had three or four houses in the village and she was on the edge of it. But you could get into the house by going around the back through the woods and in and out. So if you wanted to hide somebody well the house had a big garden on the slope and you can sit inside it but it had this wall, a big very high wall and you could see over the top but people couldn’t see in. And for four or five, well about three weeks, that’s right the D-Day was going slower than they wanted and they had to go and help the Americans go thataway and I didn’t know it but Madame was Number 2 in the General De Gaulle’s section of the Resistance where he was getting information passed back to him because he wanted to plan his own place where they’d land in France. Not where the British wanted to tell him and he was gathering material like that there but apparently had ready and at lunchtime Madame said, ‘Sorry. You’re going home tonight.’ And she, the lady was in tears and she took me around the room and she had a beautifully furnished house and an artist had six views of all around you saw from the garden and the sixth one was from the garden looking at the bungalow and she took this one off the wall and said, ‘Take that one home to your dear lady.’ She’d grown very fond of my wife during that time and she had it wrapped up very well. And this gentleman came along I hadn’t seen before, didn’t see again but apparently he was the head of the tech, of the intelligence side of General De Gaulle’s people in France and there was an aircraft, special courier aircraft coming across that evening to pick up these things and they said there would be two seats vacant. Would I take this package back? Make sure it went only to the pilot and nobody else at all. It was special. And on the way unfortunately we got waylaid by, well there was a traitor in their midst. Patricia would tell you more about, about the driver and whatever. Instead of driving us to where the aircraft would be they drove us into Paris where they hid us in what they called the Hotel Piccadilly which was just right at the foot of the Eiffel tower. The other side, the smart side of the Champs-Élysées on the one side and on the other side was the poorer side and this hotel was in fact an officer’s, it wasn’t a brothel it was a maison de liaison where you could take a lady for an hour or half a day or something like that and it was just there. And they kept you there thinking you were still part of the Resistance being hid and they were taking a note of what you were saying and that information was being passed to the Intelligence Centre to make people uneasy when they were talking about things that they’d overheard you talking about. And it was very clever. On the third day they took us out and handed us across to the German Intelligence and they were very very unpleasant indeed wanting to know who had been hiding me, where I’d got the material from and they opened up all these packages and they were bridges and things that I didn’t know what they were but well this part below they did a lot of damage to personal parts of your body and it wasn’t nice put it like that and I had no treatment for it. And for not cooperating and giving them the names they wanted instead of handing me over to the German Air Force or the German Army for their prison camp they sent me to one of Hitler’s three concentration camps in Germany. At Buchenwald. One outside Sachsenhausen just outside of North Berlin and Ravensbrück was up in the north by Lubeck where they put all the ladies. And they sent you there to just to be well the fact you weren’t given a tattoo meant that you weren’t expected to be, to escape. You were, on your documents it had a big letter DIKAL, darf in kein anderes lager, not to be allowed alive in any other camp. So it was the German way of saying this man is to be executed. And we recovered these documents afterwards but they never told our government. So all of the time we were in this wretched place nobody was getting any information at all. So it was, well that’s I’ll leave that side to Pat after. But Madame le Fevre, when the war, when the war was over the first thing to do, that I wanted to do was to go back with my wife. I knew where the aircraft had crashed. We knew that from the Resistance that they had recovered two bodies but they said there was so much petrol on board there was an hour and a half’s flight home and an hour’s reserve flight. It had burned for quite a while and the lad’s bodies were very very badly burned as well. But we each had as you see on the wall of my room all airmen, all soldiers, all servicemen had two discs. A red disc and a green disc. One was waterproof and one was fireproof and they gave you these when you joined the Air Force which had your service number, your date of birth, your religion and that. And they gave it to you. All you could do was put it on a piece of string, a piece of ribbon and hang it around your neck instead of doing as the Americans did where they made this fireproof very fine chain and had their numbers on that. So if their bodies were burned in the aircraft the chain stayed intact and you had these tags on giving their details. The RAF didn’t do that. As a result of which when the fire burned the aircraft the two discs separated themselves from the ribbon and they were never picked up so they were buried as two unknown Englishmen. And as one was a very proud Scot and the other was a very proud Welshman it was not a very nice way from their point of view to be buried as unknown Englishmen but that’s another story. And we spent two weeks, there were no motor cars then this was straight after the war. I still had twenty odd years to do in the Air Force. I was now still a flying officer, a flight lieutenant but the Air Force would not let me go back officially because politics was such that and as they wouldn’t recognise the fact we’d been in a concentration camp we just packed up and we put, made our own way across to France and there to see this wonderful look on Madame Oriel’s face and her, the gentleman that we’d been protecting they were there at this railway station to meet me and they were so very very very generous. That night they had a little banquet and they did to the person that through his not giving our details we are now alive today. It was a very memorable occasion except the fact that we had eight courses of food, we were both very young, we hadn’t drunk ever very much before and my good lady didn’t feel well and how I had to ask the good lady who had given us this wonderful meal what the French was for, ‘Can I have a Bisadyl please?’ Or, ‘Can you give me some bicarb of soda?’ And you didn’t, you weren’t taught that sort of thing at school. So they had to take me down to town to a chemist and took me in there and they soon gave me a jar and everything was alright. It was silly little things like seeing the two wonderful people that were appreciative of you not giving them away that made it rather dramatic afterwards because he was the leader of a very powerful Communist cell and when after we had this meal he took me upstairs to the bedroom which I was a bit worried about ‘til he said, open it, he had a key. He opened it all and there was this big wardrobe and he turned another lock there and that opened the back up into a room and there was shelf after shelf after shelf of mines, bomb disposal kits, pistols. Everything. Everything that the British had dropped for the Resistance during the war they had gathered up themselves and there was all this material all locked up for the Communist’s cell and he was still the head of it. So when that got back to Air Ministry they were very well not pleased. So Stanley Albert decided I wouldn’t tell them I wanted to go back to Eastern Germany which is in the Russian zone because I knew they had the details of all our lads that had been killed in the camp and they wouldn’t allow me to go. So all the while I was in the Air Force and we were stationed in Germany and doing another job altogether and when the day came and I left the Air Force I had a medical examination for a, for a pension and they put on there a fully identified the damage. The damage they’d done to my personal parts on there. This officer did, ‘But he has no physical proof of of having been in the concentration camp and therefore they could not pay me a pension.’ And I was a little bit not happy. So we had a brand new Honda car, we went up to London, we found the East Germans had a proper tourist agency for visitors. Not that they encouraged many to Eastern Germany and I had to leave my passport for them to have a visa put in and they promised me the passport would be back by the Wednesday and on that Friday we had booked to go back into Eastern Germany, back to the camp to get the proof that I knew was there. Unfortunately, the postman called at a Post Office, left the registered post on this bicycle whilst he was serving in a house. When he came back that bicycle was stolen and so was my passport which very conveniently had the visa for Eastern Germany which was going to take me to the camp. The government wouldn’t admit it was a mistake so all I could do was to get on the train in the morning and stand outside the Passport Office until they opened up and that was getting on for nearly lunchtime before my place in the queue to apply for a visa. They said, ‘Well, if we’d have known you were going back to Eastern Germany we’d have done a special run around.’ It was all, it was all a load of bunkum. Anyhow, they got me across to the East Germany Embassy. They gave me a visa for Eastern Germany which didn’t please the RAF one little bit and we got in the car and we drove back and there we were made very welcome indeed. My wife and I, this was 1982 were the first British people to go back to the camp after the war and there as I knew the Germans had made records of everything that happened in there we knew where they stored this thing and the Russians couldn’t have been more helpful. As Pat knows again that we had a very good liaison with the Russian Underground in the camp and they helped us where they could as a result of which I got copies of the execution order of each of my friends that we saw taken away and killed. And on the shelf as you go back again you’ll find the letter of appreciation from the French Ambassador thanking me for giving the details of each of these men that had come to England at the time of Dunkirk, had stayed with general, in there with General De Gaulle and now had details for what their parents knew. Where they died because we saw them being taken and executed in the crematorium. So we knew that had happened and we were able to get photographs of it and Pat shall show you on the wall there’s the pictures of each of the Frenchmen just before he died and they made me, as a result of it a Commander of the Legion d’Honneur. Made you in the French light in other words which was quite an honour. But it’s there on the wall if you want to see it. It’s interesting. But I haven’t made it known because the, my experience with the radio, with the BBC or any papers if you don’t give them the juicy gory nasty things they make them up and its very very hard to unmake a lie so I’ve avoided, strictly avoided anything to do with radio appearances, television anything like that where I’ve been asked time and time again would I give advice on this or would I give advice on that. I didn’t mind getting mixed up in it but Pat on the other hand has acted very sensibly. Controlling the police, the press and giving them little things that would help or big things that would help. Kept them off my hands. This is why I would ask you please if you are giving any talks or anything like that would you please not mention I’m here because —&#13;
[recording paused]&#13;
SP: So on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre I’d just like to thank you Stanley for the time today to share your story. It’s been a real honour and privilege especially as a navigator on 10 Squadron, the same squadron as my own father. I know you started to talk about your time at Buchenwald and your search for justice for you and your fellow POWs and Pat is going to share with us more information on that in a separate recording because I know it’s difficult for you to talk about. I think Pat will also share with us about the important job you did after the war within Military Intelligence. So once again thank you Stanley for your time today. Thank you.</text>
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                <text>Susanne Pescott</text>
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                <text>Stanley Albert Booker grew up in Chatham in a military environment surrounded with the sort of military paraphernalia he and his young friends found fascinating. He volunteered for the RAF at the earliest opportunity. He trained as a wireless operator and was posted to 10 Squadron at Melbourne. He was shot down on an operation to Trappes and was hidden by members of the French Resistance. He was betrayed and was captured by the Gestapo who tortured him and sent him to Buchenwald Concentration Camp where he witnessed executions. After the war he struggled to get acknowledgement of his experiences from the RAF or the government and spent many years campaigning for the story of his and other airmen’s experiences in concentration camps to be known.</text>
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                <text>Germany--Weimar (Thuringia)</text>
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            <description>The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant</description>
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                <text>Royal Air Force</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="825434">
                <text>Royal Air Force. Bomber Command</text>
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    <tagContainer>
      <tag tagId="626">
        <name>10 Squadron</name>
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      <tag tagId="254">
        <name>aircrew</name>
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      <tag tagId="386">
        <name>bale out</name>
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      <tag tagId="117">
        <name>bombing</name>
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        <name>Halifax</name>
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        <name>navigator</name>
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        <name>Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)</name>
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        <name>perception of bombing war</name>
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        <name>prisoner of war</name>
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        <name>RAF Melbourne</name>
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        <name>wireless operator</name>
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                  <text>Sawyer, Frederick Charles Archibald</text>
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                  <text>F C A Sawyer</text>
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                  <text>57 items.&amp;nbsp;The collection concerns Pilot Officer Frederick Charles Archibald Sawyer (174215 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, documents, and&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2872"&gt;an album&lt;/a&gt; with 39 items. He flew operations as a pilot with 434 Squadron and was killed 29 July 1944. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Evelyn Gratton and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Additional information on Frederick Charles Archibald Sawyer is available via the &lt;a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/224882/"&gt;IBCC Losses Database.&lt;/a&gt;</text>
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                  <text>2019-01-17</text>
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                  <text>IBCC Digital Archive</text>
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              <name>Rights</name>
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                  <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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                  <text>Sawyer, FCA</text>
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                <text>Frederick Sawyer’s RAF Pilot’s Flying Log Book</text>
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                <text>Frederick Sawyer’s RAF Pilot’s Flying Log Book from 22 April 1942 to 28 July 1944, detailing training and operations as a pilot. He was stationed at RAF Theale (No. 26 Elementary Flying Training School), Souther Field (Primary Flying Training School), Cochran Field (Basic Flying Training School), Moody Field (Advanced Flying Training School), RAF Little Rissington (No. 6 (Pilots) Advanced Flying Unit), RAF Docking (No. 1525 Beam Approach Training Flight), RAF Whitchurch Heath (No. 81 Operational Training Unit), RAF Gamston and RAF Ossington (No. 82 Operational Training Unit), RAF Topcliffe (No. 1659 Conversion Unit), RAF Croft (No. 434 Squadron). Aircraft flown: DH.82, PT17 Stearman, BT13A, AT10, Oxford, Whitley, Wellington, Halifax. &#13;
Records 11 operations (5 night, 6 day, final entry states “Missing”), targets in France and Germany were: Trouville, Le Clipon, ‘P’ Plane sites (‘Pilotless Planes’ - V1 flying bombs), Gorenflos, Wizernes, Biennais, Mont-Candon, Anderbelk, Hamburg.&#13;
His first pilot on first operation was Flight Lieutenant Flewelling.&#13;
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                <text>England--Oxfordshire</text>
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                <text>Royal Air Force</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="816384">
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                <text>One booklet</text>
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                <text>Review Oct 2024</text>
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          <element elementId="47">
            <name>Rights</name>
            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
            <elementTextContainer>
              <elementText elementTextId="818071">
                <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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            <description>An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource</description>
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                <text>David Leitch</text>
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                  <text>35 items. The collection concerns Robert Wallace(1050292 Royal Air Force) and contains documents, memorabilia and photographs.&#13;
He served as a Flight Mechanic, Air Frames on 83 Squadron at RAF Wyton.&#13;
&#13;
The collection digitised by Melisa Terras and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.&#13;
&#13;
This collection was provided, in digital form, by a third-party organisation which used technical specifications and operational protocols that may differ from those used by the IBCC Digital Archive.&#13;
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              <elementTextContainer>
                <elementText elementTextId="809553">
                  <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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          <element elementId="50">
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                <text>Individual history of Avro Lancaster B Mk1 R5868/7325M</text>
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          <element elementId="41">
            <name>Description</name>
            <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                <text>Complete history of the aircraft from 1942 to placement in RAF Museum. Delivered to 83 Squadron at RAF Scampton. Lists all flights with crews and provides details of operations and other sorties. First operation was on 8/9 July 1942. Was founder member of Pathfinder Force at RAF Wyton. Moved to 467 Squadron at RAF Bottesford in September 1943. Flew on 100th operation on 11/12 May 1944. Provides many detailed descriptions of operations. Last of 137 total operations was flown on 23 April 1945. Flew prisoner of war repatriation flights and took Cook's tour over Germany. Continues with post war history until arrival at the RAF Museum. This item is available only at the University of Lincoln.</text>
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                <text>1942-09</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812518">
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                <text>1942-11</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812520">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812521">
                <text>1943</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812523">
                <text>1945</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812524">
                <text>1946</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812525">
                <text>1947</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812526">
                <text>1956</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812527">
                <text>1958</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812528">
                <text>1959</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812529">
                <text>1960</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812530">
                <text>1961</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812531">
                <text>1970</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812532">
                <text>1972</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812533">
                <text>1973</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812534">
                <text>1982-08</text>
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                <text>Germany</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812539">
                <text>Germany--Wilhelmshaven</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812540">
                <text>Poland</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812571">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812572">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812573">
                <text>Germany--Bochum</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812574">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812578">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812579">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812580">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812581">
                <text>England--Yorkshire</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="812582">
                <text>Germany--Leipzig</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812583">
                <text>Germany--Schweinfurt</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="812584">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812585">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812586">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812587">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812590">
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              <elementText elementTextId="942092">
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              <elementText elementTextId="812550">
                <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                <text>Thirty page printed document</text>
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        <name>467 Squadron</name>
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      <tag tagId="396">
        <name>8 Group</name>
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        <name>83 Squadron</name>
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        <name>bombing</name>
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        <name>Cook’s tour</name>
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        <name>Mosquito</name>
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        <name>Normandy campaign (6 June – 21 August 1944)</name>
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        <name>Operation Exodus (1945)</name>
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        <name>Pathfinders</name>
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        <name>RAF Wyton</name>
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      <tag tagId="889">
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            <element elementId="50">
              <name>Title</name>
              <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                  <text>Donaghy, Thomas Rogers</text>
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            <element elementId="41">
              <name>Description</name>
              <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                  <text>Six items. The collection concerns Flight Sergeant Thomas Rogers Donaghy (422267 Royal New Zealand Air Force) and contains documents and photographs. He flew operations as a Pilot with 75 Squadron and was killed 11 June 1944. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Additional information on Thomas Rogers&amp;nbsp;Donaghy is available via the &lt;a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/207569/"&gt;IBCC Losses Database.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The collection was donated to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by John Donaghy and catalogued by Nigel Huckins.</text>
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              <name>Date</name>
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              <name>Publisher</name>
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              <name>Rights</name>
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                <elementText elementTextId="769189">
                  <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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            <name>Title</name>
            <description>A name given to the resource</description>
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                <text>The Lancaster of Tillières-sur-Avre</text>
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                <text>Details of operation and loss of Lancaster HK553 piloted by Tom Donaghy during operation to Dreux in France. Contains:&#13;
The needs of the landing of June 6 1944.&#13;
An effective German defence.&#13;
The bombing of Driex.&#13;
The Lancaster HK553 crash with details of crew with photograph and mention the lone survivor, gunner K E Jackson. Also sortie details and the other crew buried in Tillières-sur-Avre.&#13;
The escape of Sergeant Jackson, including evasion.&#13;
The result of the bombardment of Driex.&#13;
Aerial victories claimed by German Pilots including pilot who probably shot Donaghy down (Herman Zorner).&#13;
Real losses of the RAF including Tom Donaghy's.&#13;
Characteristics losses of Lancaster Nr HK553.&#13;
The story of 75 Squadron.</text>
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                <text>1944-06-06</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809295">
                <text>1944-06-10</text>
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                <text>1944-06-11</text>
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            <description>Spatial characteristics of the resource.</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809297">
                <text>France</text>
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                <text>France--Dreux</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809299">
                <text>Great Britain</text>
              </elementText>
              <elementText elementTextId="809300">
                <text>England--Cambridgeshire</text>
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          <element elementId="38">
            <name>Coverage</name>
            <description>The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant</description>
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                <text>Royal Air Force</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809302">
                <text>Royal Air Force. Bomber Command</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809303">
                <text>Royal Canadian Air Force</text>
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                <text>Royal Australian Air Force</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809305">
                <text>Royal New Zealand Air Force</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809306">
                <text>South African Air Force</text>
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            <name>Language</name>
            <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <text>eng</text>
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            <name>Type</name>
            <description>The nature or genre of the resource</description>
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              <elementText elementTextId="809308">
                <text>Text</text>
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                <text>Text. Personal research</text>
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                <text>Photograph</text>
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            <name>Format</name>
            <description>The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource</description>
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                <text>Nine page printed document with photographs</text>
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            <name>Conforms To</name>
            <description>An established standard to which the described resource conforms.</description>
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                <text>Pending text-based transcription</text>
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The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Shane and Lesley Willett and catalogued by Jan Johnstone.&#13;
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                  <text>159 items. The collection concerns Idwal Davies (b. 1923, 1515585 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs, &lt;a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2859"&gt;Album,&lt;/a&gt; service documents, letters, and decorations. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 620 Squadron. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Dafydd Glyn Davies and catalogued by Barry Hunter.</text>
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                <text>Idwal Davies’ Flying Log Book as a Bomb Aimer from 5th March 1943 until 1st August 1946. Air Bomber and Air Gunner training at 31 Bombing and Gunnery School followed by 33 Air Navigation School. Posted to 2 Advanced Flying Unit in July 1943 and then 81 Operational Training Unit and 1665 Heavy Conversion Unit. Operational posting to 620 Squadron in May 1944 with 2nd Tactical Air Force. Posted to 644 Squadron in July 1946.&#13;
&#13;
Served at RCAF Picton, RCAF Mount Hope, RAF Millom, RAF Sleap, RAF Tilstock, RAF Fairford, RAF Great Dunmow, RAF Qastina.&#13;
&#13;
Aircraft flown were Anson, Bolingbroke, Whitley, Oxford, Stirling, Halifax.&#13;
&#13;
With 620 Squadron operations involved glider towing, paratrooper and supply dropping to support the Special Operations Executive and the Special Air Service. Took part in the Normandy airborne assault, Operation Market Garden, Operation Varsity and Operation Doomsday.&#13;
He flew 32 operations (10 day and 22 night) including 2 Operation Exodus. These operations were to France, Netherlands, Brussels, Germany (The Ruhr, Wesel), Norway (Oslo, Eggemoen, Gardermoen).&#13;
&#13;
His pilot on all his operations was Warrant Officer Miller.&#13;
&#13;
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                <text>Nick Cornwell-Smith</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="813904">
                <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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        <name>Anson</name>
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                  <text>Davies, Idwal</text>
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                  <text>159 items. The collection concerns Idwal Davies (b. 1923, 1515585 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, photographs, &lt;a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2859"&gt;Album,&lt;/a&gt; service documents, letters, and decorations. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 620 Squadron. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Dafydd Glyn Davies and catalogued by Barry Hunter.</text>
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                  <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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                <text>Idwal writes telling of his wartime experiences flying Stirlings with 620 Squadron. He was involved with dropping agents, Arnhem and the Rhine crossing of 1945. In particular he refers to an operation over Norway when they made a landing on an airfield which formally surrendered to the senior officer, the pilot.</text>
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                <text>Idwal Davies</text>
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                <text>1985-11-28</text>
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                <text>Netherlands--Arnhem</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="804851">
                <text>Germany--Rhineland</text>
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                <text>Norway</text>
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                <text>Norway--Gardermoen</text>
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                <text>Norway--Oslo</text>
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                <text>Norway--Kristiansand</text>
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                <text>Jamaica</text>
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                <text>Civilian</text>
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                <text>Royal Air Force</text>
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            <description>A language of the resource</description>
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                <text>Two typewritten sheets</text>
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                <text>EDaviesIDWKnophB851128-0001, EDaviesIDWKnophB851128-0002</text>
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              <elementText elementTextId="813897">
                <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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                  <text>38 items. The collection concerns Flying Officer Denis Alfred 'Alf' Morrill (b. 1916, 1867345 Royal Air Force) and contains his log book, correspondence, documents, and photographs. He flew operations as a flight engineer with 51 Squadron.&#13;
&#13;
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                <text>He describes a two year delay in joining the Royal Air Force, due to his reserved occupation making cables for barrage balloons. He covers recruitment and life during initial training,&amp;nbsp; He recalls 'crewing up' with Harry Watkins (P), Doug 'Duggie' Hockin (N), Fred Jowitt (E), Johnny Wave (W/O), Ted Ray (B/A) and Carson J 'Jack' Foy (RG) and his selection to fly in Stirlings with OTU, as well as transferring to Lancasters with 61 Squadron. Some of the operations are described in detail, including one to a V1 installation during which Carson J 'Jack' Foy was killed. After completing 33 operations, on two tours, the crew were given the option of joining 617 Squadron, Pathfinders or 9 Squadron. Four of the crew, including Ken, went on to join 9 Squadron and his 44th and final operation was on Eagle's Nest with a Tallboy bomb. Post hostilities, Ken transferred to North-West Strike Force and took part in Operation Exodus. After promotion to warrant officer and getting married, Ken was posted to Egypt where he took command of a motor transport division involved in the repatriation of British Forces. After witnessing riots and blockades in Cairo, Ken was demobbed and returned to Liverpool by troopship. After five years of service he describes how long it took him to adjust to civilian life.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Additional information on Carson Jack Foy is available via&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/108000/"&gt;IBCC Losses Database&lt;/a&gt;.</text>
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                <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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                <text>Maureen Clarke</text>
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  <item itemId="50276" public="1" featured="0">
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                  <text>Rökker, Heinz</text>
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              <description>An account of the resource</description>
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                  <text>Seven Items. Collection concerns Hauptmann Heinz Rökker, Knight's Cross with Oakleaves. Seventh highest scoring Luftwaffe night-fighter pilot. The collection contains transcript of an oral history, document with photographs and other photographs.&#13;
&#13;
The collection was licensed to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Dr Steve Bond and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. &#13;
&#13;
This collection was provided, in digital form, by a third-party organisation which used technical specifications and operational protocols that may differ from those used by the IBCC Digital Archive.</text>
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                  <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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                <text>Conversation with Heinz Rökke &amp; Jack Bromfield</text>
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                <text>Gives short details of participants mentioning that Heinz Rökke achieved 64 victories with NJG2. Flight Sergeant Jack Bromfield was wireless operator /air gunner with 158 (Halifax) Squadron. Starts with Rökke and Bromfield discussing the latter's crew and asks if still in contact. Briefly discuss Bletchley Park and the Battle of Britain. Rökke describes his service history with operations in 1942 in the Mediterranean theatre. Comments on his first shoot downs of Bomber Command four engine bombers. Talks about radar and his crew. Comments that it was not his target to kill, but to shoot down the aircraft. Jack Bromfield explains why the Halifax was easier to bale out from than the Lancaster. Rökke mentions meeting the only English man to bale out of one of his targets. Bromfield provides comments about his crew mostly being Canadian. Rökke mentions a visit he had from an Australian he had shot down. Bromfield describes his prisoner of war camp and seeing signs for Deipholz. Rökke relates story of landing their single engine after shooting down a Mosquito. Bromfield describes evading after being shot down and being captured. They then describe the escape and evasion of English airmen through France and mentioned that this was not possible for German crews shot down over England. Rökke goes on to describe the German night-fighter control system and operations in detail. Bromfield intersperses with bomber operational details. Mentions 100 Group operations. Bromfield describe 6 Group and Canadian system of operating. They both go on to discuss operations and tactics, decoy sites, anti-aircraft organisation on both sides. Bromfield mentions daylight operations. They discuss schrage-musik, Mosquito and Beaufighter. Rökke tells of of having 5 victories in less than one hour. He and Bromfield go on swapping tales and discussing aircraft, tactics, events and experiences. There are various comments on operations and tactics, Rökke goes back to operation in Mediterranean theatre. Continue discussion on German National Socialism and anti-Semitism. Continues with more discussion on a variety of topics as well as relating combat and operating experiences. Ends with a section on quotes from other account (A Night Fighting Account - written by Heinz Rökke in 2000).</text>
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                <text>S Bond</text>
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                <text>H Rökker</text>
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                <text>J Bromfield</text>
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            <description>Temporal characteristics of the resource.</description>
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                <text>1944-06-07</text>
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 &#13;
The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rosemary Pidgeon and John Thurecht and catalogued by Barry Hunter. &#13;
&#13;
This collection was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.</text>
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                <text>John Waugh’s Pilot’s Flying Log Book from 9th March 1942 until 15th April 1945. Initial pilot training in Australia at 12 Elementary Flying Training School, 8 Elementary Flying Training School, then Canada at 8 Service Flying Training School. Posted to 18 Elementary Flying Training School in England during June 1943 and then 20 (Pilots) Advanced Flying Unit. Attended 1519 Beam Approach Training Flight in July/August 1943.&#13;
In October 1943 posted to 27 Operational Training Unit converting to Wellingtons. Further conversion training to Stirlings at 1660 Heavy Conversion Unit and then 5 Lancaster Finishing School. &#13;
Operational posting to 467 Royal Australian Air Force Squadron. On completion of tour posted to 1654 Heavy Conversion Unit in September 1944. Posted to 3 Flying Instructor’s School. Returned to 1654 Heavy Conversion Unit as a flying instructor. &#13;
&#13;
Served at RAAF Lowood, RAAF Narrandera, RCAF Moncton, RAF Fairoaks, RAF Kidlington, RAF Feltwell, RAF Lichfield, RAF Swinderby, RAF Syerston, RAF Waddington, RAF Wigsley, RAF Lulsgate Bottom.&#13;
&#13;
Aircraft flown were Wellington III, Wellington X, DH82 Tiger Moth, Anson, Oxford, Stirling, Lancaster I, Lancaster III, Sunderland.&#13;
&#13;
He flew 36 operations (8 day and 28 night) with 467 Squadron. His pilot on the first operation was Pilot Officer McManus. He was the pilot on all other operations. The targets included Saint-Médard-en-Jalles, Toulouse, Mailly le Camp, Louailles, Brest, Lille, Bourg Leopold, Brunswick, Nantes, St Martin de Varreville, Saumur, Pointe-du-Hoc, Argentan, Rennes, Orleans, Poitiers, Aunay sur Odon, Chatellerault, Pas-de-Calais, Watten, Gelsenkirchen, Limoges, Prouville - Pas de Calais, Vitry, Beauvoir, Pas de Calais, Culmont-Chalindrey, Nevers, Caen, Courtrai, Stuttgart, St Cyr, Cahagnes, Joigny, Isle d’Adam, Bois de Cassan, Saint-Leu-d'Esserent, Falaise, Quesnay.&#13;
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This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available.</text>
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            <description>An established standard to which the described resource conforms.</description>
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                <text>Review Oct 2024</text>
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            <description>Information about rights held in and over the resource</description>
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                <text>This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.</text>
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