1 25 89 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/4055/58228/SRogersK1579511v10036.jpg 1e9cdbb0b99e550e934295600fd9c81f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ken Rogers. Scrapbook Description An account of the resource 68 page scrapbook containing documents, photographs, and cuttings about his service. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-04-27 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SRogersK1579511v1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Page 31 Marjorie Rogers' diary Description An account of the resource Ken's wife writes about their honeymoon in London then Lynmouth in Devon. Shortly after the American dropped the atomic bombs on Japan. Marjorie writes about the VJ day celebrations. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Marjorie Rogers Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-08 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Great Britain England--London England--Devon England--Lynmouth Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Civilian Royal Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One b/w photocopy Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SRogersK1579511v10036 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1945-08 Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending text-based transcription love and romance Victory over Japan Day (15 August 1945) https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/4055/58227/SRogersK1579511v10034.jpg dae61889fb30b41e9d8a451fcab77862 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/4055/58227/SRogersK1579511v10035.jpg f2737d8310363ea007c1fdbb88b99fec Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ken Rogers. Scrapbook Description An account of the resource 68 page scrapbook containing documents, photographs, and cuttings about his service. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2023-04-27 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SRogersK1579511v1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peace on Earth Description An account of the resource The news that Japan has accepted the Allies surrender terms. A smaller piece quotes Sir Arthur Harris about Bomber Command losses. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1945-08-15 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Civilian Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Two b/w photocopies Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SRogersK1579511v10034, SRogersK1579511v10035 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending text-based transcription Harris, Arthur Travers (1892-1984) killed in action perception of bombing war Victory over Japan Day (15 August 1945) https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55396/SMilsonGW937875v90003-0001.jpg 9e0433c89bbf39372c73d797de9e35f4 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55396/SMilsonGW937875v90003-0002.jpg d2975e5292cf053c8f8afb85b43a79ad Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Milson, George William Description An account of the resource 203 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant George William Milson DFC (b. 1916, 937875 Royal Air Force) and contains correspondence, documents, and photographs]. He flew operations as a pilot with 18 and 84 Squadrons and became a prisoner of war of the Japanese. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Elizabeth Jane McElwee and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-01-19 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Milson, GW Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Extract from the Journal of the Taiwan POW Camp HQ in Taihoku Description An account of the resource A translation certified as true used as exhibit "O" in James Cross' affidavit. On the reverse is handwritten 'Try to tell.... any ex-POW... That you believe... that the atomic bombs should not have been dropped on Japan. The atomic bomb saved his life!' Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1946-09-19 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1944-08-01 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Taiwan Japan Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One double sided printed sheet with handwritten annotations Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SMilsonGW937875v90003-0001, SMilsonGW937875v90003-0002 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending text-based transcription prisoner of war https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55261/MMilsonGW937875-240119-310001.jpg 5a2e6cf2956ed15f8264cdaf6ca4cffb https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55261/MMilsonGW937875-240119-310002.jpg c546ebb80e9f65f3ffe3c52668719c15 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Milson, George William Description An account of the resource 203 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant George William Milson DFC (b. 1916, 937875 Royal Air Force) and contains correspondence, documents, and photographs]. He flew operations as a pilot with 18 and 84 Squadrons and became a prisoner of war of the Japanese. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Elizabeth Jane McElwee and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-01-19 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Milson, GW Transcribed document A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document WITH OUR COMPLIMENTS. R.SHAYLER. HON. SEC. OUR LATEST BULLETIN HOPE THIS WILL DO. MR R. F. SHAYLER SEC. F.E.P.O.W. ASSOCIATION [censored words] TELE. SOUTHEND [censored numbers] [page break] THE JAP LABOUR CAMP SURVIVORS ASSOCIATION (affiliated to Southend FEPOW Association) [crest] We fight for compensation for FEPOWs and Dependants: Please reply to:- MR R.F. SHAYLER SEC F.E.P.O.W. ASSOCIATION [censored words] TELE. SOUTHEND [censored numbers] Date per postmark [underlined] WELCOME TO THE ASSOCIATION. [/underlined] Dear Friend, For five years we have fought for compensation of £10,000 per capita from the Japanese Government. In June 1988 following our Delegation’s visit to the Japanese Embassy we held a National Rally at the House of Commons when we hired the Methodist Central Hall opposite for members countrywide to meet. It was from the body of the Hall a proposal was made that a ‘Fighting Fund’ be established to meet further expenses of the campaign. Members responded steadily but we were unaware at the time with the expense likely to be involved in presenting a legal case to UN Court of Human Rights in Geneva so we advised everybody that we would notify them as soon as the situation was made known. We pressed ahead and found that we faced legal fees of £200 per hour: very heavy printing costs: conferences: and the registration of thousands of applicants asking us to represent them. In line with our Colonial and Dutch comrades we were compelled to insist on membership £3 per annum – which also included Registration fee – as we can only raise funds through such membership. We didn’t realise the amount of work involved, in fact normally a staff would have been necessary running into thousands of pounds. We decided, however, that we would handle the task ourselves voluntarily, and with the valuable help of our wives and other helpers we met everything that was required of us. We had no less than [underlined] seven [/underlined] Committee Members handling Registrations and progressing necessary forms. We attended conferences with top International Lawyers, and also Senior Politicians at the House of Commons. We also attended a conference in Amsterdam to meet 16 representatives from Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Holland, America plus of course JLCSA representing British interests and forged a common bond of unity with our comrades from these countries, and we came away with the knowledge that we had acted correctly and could face the future with confidence. After careful costing, we approached our members for a donation of say a minimum of £5 payable to ‘J.L.C.S.A.’ with cheques/postal orders to be sent to the above named Committee Member covering your surname. The response was unbelievable and reflected the support and loyalty of comrades who shared our determination to fight for justice, recognition and compensation. We are, however, mindful that some may not be in a position to forward such a sum, in which case please let us know and we will understand. It was a tremendous job and our legal case consisted of FOUR volumes which had to be repeated 22 times (88 in all) for GENEVA. Details of every member has and/or will be registered in GENEVA where we have made provision to add further names as and when obtained. Our case together with the other countries lead by a brilliant Canadian initiative [underlined] has not only been approved by the Commission but they have forwarded same to the Japanese Government [/underlined] who have been given five months in which to respond. We do not rest on our ‘laurels’ however as “we six” are fully prepared for whatever transpires with the Japanese Government. We are faced with International Conferences and even further legal action so we must keep up our financial momentum and that is why I outline the facts before you in the hope that you can support our earlier comrades and our efforts accordingly. WE WILL ALWAYS KEEP YOU FULLY ADVISED OF EVENTS THROUGH OUR “FEPOW FULCRUM” and we confirm THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS AND WILL CONTINUE TO NEGOTIATE FROM THE TRUTH. Yours sincerely, [signature] C.W. Holtham, Chairman. Hon. Chairman Mr. C.W. Holtham Hon. Secretary Mr.R.F. Shayler Hon. Treasurer Mr. A.G. O’Brien Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Japanese Labour Camp Survivors Association Description An account of the resource A welcome letter explaining how the association is fighting for compensation in the UN Court of Human Rights. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Switzerland Switzerland--Geneva Japan Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force British Army Royal Navy Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One printed sheet and one handwritten note Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMilsonGW937875-240119-310001, MMilsonGW937875-240119-310002 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Liz McElwee prisoner of war https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55258/MMilsonGW937875-240119-230001.jpg e047bbb2079a23b054b0eb817af18346 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55258/MMilsonGW937875-240119-230002.jpg ec93d65cdf650a4dfc215ddcf8a8ca8b https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55258/MMilsonGW937875-240119-230003.jpg d9f3d56a248d9a9e414f13f86d855788 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Milson, George William Description An account of the resource 203 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant George William Milson DFC (b. 1916, 937875 Royal Air Force) and contains correspondence, documents, and photographs]. He flew operations as a pilot with 18 and 84 Squadrons and became a prisoner of war of the Japanese. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Elizabeth Jane McElwee and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-01-19 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Milson, GW Transcribed document A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document [underlined] ADDITIONAL INFORMATION. [/underlined] [underlined] 84 Squadron. [/underlined] Personnel who left Batavia September, 1942, and probably went to Nippon. F/Lt Bongard. New Zealand P/O Bishop. F/Sgt Barker. Rigger. Sgt Hall (34) Photo. [inserted] 510905 [/inserted] Cpl Fairgreaves. Fitter. Cpl Greenbank. Fitter. Cpl Hewitt. Stores. Cpl Hughes. Rigger. Cpl McLaughlin. Electrician. LAC Johnson. Fitter. LAC Leary Fitter. LAC Massey. ACH Mrs Massey (Mother) 32 Sugarwell Road, Leeds. LAC Sissons. Clerk. G.D. 18 Roundhay Avenue, Leeds. LAC Swanson. M.T. [deleted words] AC Coldwell M.T. 27 Redcar Road, Sheffield. AC McKay ACH. AC Pedin. Elect. AC Saint ACH. Cpl Roberts ACH 147 Bland Road, Prestwick, Manch. [inserted] 622091 [/inserted] Cpl Street. [inserted] w [/inserted] Fitter Mrs Street (Wife) 36 Westcott Road, Wokingham, Bucks LAC [deleted word] Duncan. Instr. Rep. [inserted] 775400 [/inserted] LAC Berlin. [inserted] A [/inserted] Armourer. [deleted] LAC Crocker. Electric. [/deleted] LAC Gorringe. Fitter. LAC Lansdell G/G. 56 Eastern Road, Romford, Essex [deleted] LAC Milne. Armourer. [/deleted] LAC Record. Fitter. LAC Regan. Armourer. Mr Regan. (Father) 20 Berkley Road, Leeds 11. LAC Wharfe Armourer. AC Brooker. ACH. AC Connetty. ACH. AC Jones. W/Op. AC Nicholson. AC Richards. LAC Woodford. Fitter. 112 Conway Street, Hove, Sussex. Personnel who left Batavia for Soerabaia, [deleted words] in February, 1943. Sgt Cork (34) Fitter. Sgt Smith. Rigger. Cpl Naylor Instr. Rep. Cpl Morton. Rigger. LAC Arrowsmith. G/G LAC Hammond. [inserted] W [/inserted] Fitter. [inserted] 1177844 [/inserted] Mrs Hammond (Mother) 331 Fulham PPark [sic] Road, S.W.6. LAC Jones. Fitter. LAC Small WEM. LAC Williams. Fitter. 918845. AC Hall Instr. Rep. Sgt Cruickshanks. Fitter. Cpl Jeanes. Fitter. Cpl Minshall Cook. 153 Coalpoll Road, Walsall. LAC Edis. W/Op. LAC Marland. Rigger. Mrs Marland. (Wife). 11 Franchease Street, Rochdale. LAC Middleton. Fitter. Mrs Middleton. (Wife) 8 Clovelly Avenue, Hollingwood, Oldham. Personnel who left Batavia for Soerabaia, on or about the 14-4-43. F/O Brentnall. F/Sgt Gomm. A/Obs. Sgt Hough Pilot. Sgt McKillop. [inserted] x [/inserted] Pilot. Sgt Tulley [inserted] x [/inserted] Armourer. Cpl Ball. [inserted] DIED [/inserted] Armourer. Cpl Collingwood. [inserted] x [/inserted] Fitter. Cpl Gabb. [inserted] DIED [/inserted] ACH. [deleted] P/O Finelly. [/deleted] F/Sgt Nice. Fitter. Sgt Kester. Fitter. [deleted] Sgt Oliver. A/G. [/deleted] Cpl Beatty [inserted] x [/inserted] Fitter. Cpl Chandler. [inserted] x [/inserted] W/Op. Cpl Evans. Clerk. G.D. Cpl Hayes. M.T. [page break] 2. Cpl.McCoy ACH LAC Armstrong. ACH LAC Gorst. [inserted] x [/inserted] ACH. M Gorst. (Father) 15 Dorset Road. Preston, Lancashire. [deleted words] LAC Phillips. Elect. LAC Shepherd. ACH. [deleted words] LAC Yabsley. Fitter. [deleted] AC Passey. Instr. [/deleted] AC Taylor Rigger. 129 Fairfax Road, Teddington, Middlesex. AC Weltzer. Photo. LAC Merrick. Mr Merrick. (Father). 18 Longnor, Shrewsbury, Sallop. Cpl Porter. [deleted] Inst. [/deleted] [inserted] M/W [/inserted] LAC Dann. ACH. LAC Hartley. M.T. 5 Station Road, Slaithwaitte, Hudders. LAC Hoyle. [inserted] x [/inserted] M.T. [indecipherable letters] McLean. [inserted] x [/inserted] [deleted] Armourer. [/deleted] LAC Prime [inserted] x [/inserted] Cook. LAC Ratcliffe. [inserted] x [/inserted] M.T. [deleted words]. Newmills, Derby. LAC Waite. ACH. AC Kidd. Fitter. AC Scaife. [inserted] DIED [/inserted] ACH. AC Taylor. Clerk. Ac Robinson. ACH. AC Wilkinson Fitter. Sgt Samuel. [inserted] S.925856 [/inserted] Pilot. LAC Smith. Rigger. 2 Railway Cottages, Mt Pleast Road, Exeter. Personnel still in Batavia, 20-7-43. P/O McNelly Sgt Lewis (211) A/G. Cpl Spektor. Armourer. LAC Smith. Instr. AC Drysdale. Rigger W.O. Jones. Armourer. Cpl Shaw. Fitter. (Crashed with Sgt Geapen, but fit and well again.) AC Mockford. ACH. Personnel in Batavia Hospital. 20-7-43. Sgr [sic] Wilkins (34) on. Armourer. Cpl Darwin Fitter. Cpl Greenwood. Armourer. LAC Bell. Fab. Wkr. LAC Martin. Clerk G.[indecipherable letter]. LAC Mytton. Fitter. [inserted] OVS 27-10-42 [/inserted] Mrs Mytton, (Wife) 91 Priory Road, Hall Green, Birmingham. Ac Westfield. ACH. Cpl Crocke[inserted]r.[/inserted] Elect. Cpl Duffin [inserted] 548945 [/inserted] Carpenter. Cpl Rooksby. WEM. LAC Howarth. [inserted] H 1017192 [/inserted] Rigger. 1017192 9 Astor Road, Manchester. AC Linesay. ACH. AC Blackabey. ACH. AC Mason. Fitter. AC Saine. M.T. “Yoma”. Cpl Cross Armourer. LA Langridge. Rigger. 27 The Drive, Shoreham-by-Sea, Sussex. Rangoon. 1-42. Cpl Brooks. Fitter. Cpl Mays. Elect. Cpl Mackie. Rigger. LAC Tourle. Fitter. Pakanbaroe with S/Ldr James. LAC Osborne. Fitter (Not on “Yoma”.) [underlined] Not [/underlined] at Kaladjati. AC Williams. G/G. [page break] 3. Personnel at Tjimahi 27-7-43. [inserted] ALL. LEFT CYCLE CAMP BATAVIA 10.9.43 [/inserted] F/Sgt Brown. A. Fitter 1. Mrs Brown (Wife) Easthaven, Angus. Cpl Cherry, 1182221 Rigger. Mrs Cherry (Wife) 11 Royde Street, Todmorden, Lancs. [inserted] 626253 [/inserted] Cpl Ward[inserted]S[/inserted] Armourer. Mrs W. Harrison. (Sister). 33 Greenbank, Ashgate, Chesterfield. LAC [symbol] Murphy. 538884 Fitter. Mr Murphy (Father) [inserted] OVS. [/inserted] 35, Cameron Street, Glasgow. N.W. LAC Shaw. ACH. Mrs Shaw. (Wife) 410 Mutton Lane, Potter’s Bar, Middlesex. Sgt Burlock. 511787 [inserted] OVS [/inserted] M.T. Mrs Burlock (Wife) 112 Albany Road, Chatam. [sic] Cpl Round. [inserted] F. [/inserted] 942113 Ck & Bu. Mrs Round (Wife) 44 Sherbourne Road Wolverhamp. [symbol] LAC McKelvin. 943544 A CH. Mr McKelvin. (Father) 79 Whitely Street, Milnsbridge, Huddersfield. LAC Jones. 1376139 Fitter. Mrs Jones (Wife) 97 Maxey Road, Dagenham, Essex. LAC Watson. 1257198 Desp. Rider. Mr Watson, (Father). 2 Manor Road North, Wallington, Surrey. Address of LAC Williams of February Party. LAC Williams. 918845 Fitter. 382 Eastcote Lane, South Harrow Road, Middlesex. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Additional Information - 84 Squadron Description An account of the resource A list of airmen, trade and addresses and where they were held. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Indonesia Indonesia--Batavia Japan Indonesia--Soerabaia Indonesia--Tjimahi (Bandung) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Personal research Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Three typewritten sheets Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMilsonGW937875-240119-230001, MMilsonGW937875-240119-230002, MMilsonGW937875-240119-230003 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Liz McElwee Steve Baldwin 84 Squadron aircrew ground crew prisoner of war https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55252/MMilsonGW937875-240119-200001.jpg 916dc8eda420c77d6f9a7011d9f24ae4 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55252/MMilsonGW937875-240119-200002.jpg 35e8d07c2b3b05739c263906c0583601 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2924/55252/MMilsonGW937875-240119-200003.jpg 8d4db338a22c9a47d85791300f4381f8 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Milson, George William Description An account of the resource 203 items. The collection concerns Flight Lieutenant George William Milson DFC (b. 1916, 937875 Royal Air Force) and contains correspondence, documents, and photographs]. He flew operations as a pilot with 18 and 84 Squadrons and became a prisoner of war of the Japanese. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Elizabeth Jane McElwee and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2024-01-19 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Milson, GW Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource No 84 squadron nominal roll Description An account of the resource It lists all the squadron members and where they were February-March 1942. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Australia Indonesia Indonesia--Padang Indonesia--Tjilatjap Indonesia--Bandoeng Singapore Indonesia--Batavia Indonesia--Soerabaja Malaysia Malaysia--Kuching (Sarawak) Indonesia--Sumatra Indonesia--Tjimahi (Bandung) Burma Burma--Rangoon Indonesia--Java Indonesia--Garut Japan Indonesia--Pakanbaru Indonesia--Ambon Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Personal research Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Three printed sheets Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMilsonGW937875-240119-200001, MMilsonGW937875-240119-200002, MMilsonGW937875-240119-200003 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive 84 Squadron aircrew killed in action missing in action prisoner of war https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1562/50279/NEvansJR240408-01.1.pdf f8fee2ef4e0d3d847928dad30fc52ef4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Evans, James Robert J R Evans Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-11-16 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published 'as is' and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Evans, JR Description An account of the resource Four items. This collection concerns James Robert Evans and contains four items. Two newspapers, a photograph of scientists and a letter by Arthur Harris. It was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive by James Robert Evans for digitisation and catalogued by Andy Fitter. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Union Jack newspaper, 8 May 1945 Description An account of the resource Copy of the Western Italy edition of the newspaper, Special Edition reporting Victory in Europe Day. Contains articles on various repercussions around Europe, 'The Great Alliance", a report of the invasion campaign, of Britain's war and of the continuing offensive against Japan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource British Army Newspaper Unit Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-05-08 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1945-05-08 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force British Army Royal Navy Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Artwork Text Photograph Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One newspaper of eight pages Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NEvansJR240408-0001 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Burma Great Britain Portugal Italy Japan Burma--Rangoon England--London Germany--Hamburg Germany--Kiel Italy--Trieste Germany Alexander, Harold (1891-1969) Churchill, Winston (1874-1965) Montgomery, Bernard (1887 - 1976) Roosevelt, Franklin Delano (1882-1945) Stalin, Joseph (1878-1953) Victory in Europe Day (8 May 1945) https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2793/49629/SBondS-GwilliamAv10023.2.jpg 7ea6f7b827d283c59c76bd12e20f4a87 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2793/49629/SBondS-GwilliamAv10024.2.jpg 8b9640fc45caed3eda3b47b49bbbd8cf Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gwilliam, Alan Description An account of the resource 22 items. Collection concerns Flight Sergeant Alan Gwilliam who completed a tour as a Wellington pilot on 214 Squadron. He then completed several tours as an instructor before returning to operation with 47 Squadron Mosquito in Burma in 1945. Collection contains his logbooks, maps, photograph and an interview with his Mosquito navigator. The collection was licensed to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Dr Steve Bond and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. This collection was provided, in digital form, by a third-party organisation which used technical specifications and operational protocols that may differ from those used by the IBCC Digital Archive. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2022-01-18 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SBondS-GwilliamAv1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Japanese bank notes Description An account of the resource Japanese government banknote for 10 rupees and 5 cents. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Civilian Type The nature or genre of the resource Physical object Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Two bank notes Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SBondS-GwilliamAv10023, SBondS-GwilliamAv10024 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2659/46752/PHolmanAW19010089.jpg 6a01cf50911b518aba7d1175158d26eb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Holman, A W. Album Description An account of the resource 55 items. Photographs of his wartime and post war service including celebrations in London at the end of the war. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-09-19 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Holman, AW Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Stinson L-5 over Naha, Okinawa Description An account of the resource An air to air photograph of a Stinson L-5 aerial reconnaissance aircraft. The caption refers to its use in the bombardment of Naha, Okinawa. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Japan--Okinawa-ken Japan--Naha-shi Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant United States Army Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Photograph Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One newspaper cutting Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PHolmanAW19010089 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending geolocation Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mike Stilgoe Oscar Verhoeven https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1875/46474/SHarriganD[Ser -DoB]v670002.mp3 dc330a19486127faee58285311c26dbe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-06-19 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire Description An account of the resource 34 items. Interviews with veterans recorded by Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire. Interview with Bertie Salvage Three part interview with Dougie Marsh Interview with Terry Hodson Interview with Stan Waite Interview with John Langston Interview with Nelson Nix Two part interview with Bob Panton Interview with Basil Fish Interview with Ernest Groeger Interview with Wilf Keyte Interview with Reginald John Herring Interview with Kathleen Reid Interview with Allan Holmes Interview with John Tomlinson Interview with Cliff Thorpe and Roy Smith Interview with Peter Scoley Interview with Kenneth Ivan Duddell Interview with Christopher Francis Allison Interview with Bernard Bell Interview with George Arthur Bell Interview with George William Taplin Interview with Richard Moore Interview with Kenneth Edgar Neve Interview with Annie Mary Blood Interview with Dennis Brader Interview with Les Stedman Interview with Anthony Edward Mason Interview with Anne Morgan Rose Harcombe The following interviews have been moved to the relevant collections. Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46454">Kathleen Reid</a> Interview with Wing Commander <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46467">Kenneth Cook DFC</a> Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46456">Colin Cole</a> Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/document/46464">Charles Avey</a> Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46470">John Bell</a> Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46459">Les Rutherford</a> Interview with <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/items/show/46460">James Douglas Hudson</a> Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document Interviewer: I’m with Bertie Salvage in his home in Stamford. BS: Yes. Interviewer: And Bertie served a good long time in the Air Force. BS: Yes. Interviewer: And so, to start. I understand Bertie that your first encounter with the RAF was when you joined up. Was it 1939? BS: 1939. On October the 6th 1939. And — Interviewer: Yeah. I mean, you know, did you that was at the beginning of the Second World War. BS: Well, it was. The war had broken out early September and it was a Sunday afternoon and we were home and the air raid siren went off for the first time. We were all sitting down to Sunday dinner in Southend on Sea where I — Interviewer: This is the famous first day of the war. BS: Yes, it was. The first day of the war. Then of course we all rushed outside. Of course nothing happened, you know. It was, it was just a false alarm. But anyway, I had received notification that I had passed the RAF exam as an aircraft apprentice to go to Cranwell and so I then received information in early September that I was to report to Cranwell on the 6th of October 1939. So this was, this duly happened. I went to Cranwell. I was inducted as an aircraft apprentice at RAF Cranwell. The instrument maker apprentices and the wires and electrical mechanic apprentices were being trained at Cranwell at the time. The other trades were being trained at RAF Halton in Buckinghamshire. So they were the two schools really and also some at Cosford. They were boy entrants. Anway, so it was quite a fierce trades really from the comforts of home to the, to the spartan conditions of the RAF as it then was in 1939. We were in huge barrack blocks at Cranwell where they had forty to a room you know. Iron bedsteads left over from the Great War I think [laughs] and very very far, very strong discipline you know. Very firm discipline which it had to be for young boys I suppose just joining the Air Force but I settled down and we did basic training on the square. Just for a few weeks you know. Two or three weeks basic training and drill and all that sort of thing. Learned to keep ourselves neat and tidy, our uniforms. To keep the barrack rooms clean and everything else. And of course, it was very very tough the discipline but you know some, in some respects you appreciated it. I enjoyed it really. Well, then we settled in on our technical training. We used to march down to the workshops every day at Cranwell and this went on and on and the, the one thing I do remember is that going over into 1940 just about the time of just before Dunkirk when the Germans had invaded the low countries we used to march to the workshops every day and during that early period when the Germans were still invading France they used to play patriotic music over the tannoy system as we were marching to work. Such things as, “We’re Going to Hang out the Washing on the Siegfried Line.” [laughs] And of course that didn’t ever happen. Things like that you know. It was quite an amazing time to go through really at that period leading up to Dunkirk. Anyway, so the training went on. I found it very interesting. The technical training. All the aircraft. The aircraft electrical instrument systems and all that you know and also quite a lot of electrical information. Electrical instruction as well because a lot of instruments were, you know operated by electricity or electrical systems and you know so that went on sort of quite happily. And then in 1940 around about August time the instrument maker schools was moved out to Halton with the apprentices of the other trades. RAF Halton. It was a wonderful change because Halton is a lovely part of the country you know in Buckinghamshire whereas Cranwell was — Interviewer: Flat. BS: We didn’t like it very much up there. Dismal sort of area there. So we got to Halton and but, but in the interim period sort of you know we had a month’s leave actually. Four weeks leave in the changeover between going from Cranwell to Halton and I went home to Southend on Sea and I watched lots of the Battle of Britain going on with all the aerodrome above us coming up the Thames Estuary and we had a grandstand view really, Southend unfortunately. Interviewer: And what was the feeling like in the country at that time? BS: Very patriotic. Very patriotic. Yeah. Interviewer: And was there a, you know a real fear of invasion at that stage? BS: Well, there was a fear of, well there was but somehow we used to have the feeling it can’t happen to us. You know that sort of British feeling that — Interviewer: Stiff upper lip and all that. BS: Stiff upper lip and all that. Oh yes. There was the fear but it was, it was a defiance really. No one is bloody going to invade us sort of thing, you know. But of course, we were right on the, down at Southend where my old home was that was right on the sort of, you know if they had invaded it would be one of the first places that they would come in through I would have thought. Interviewer: What was the news reporting? Was it, was, did you hear what was going on? BS: Oh yes. Oh, the news reporting was very good. We, we knew all the time what was going on. I saw quite a few battles when I was, that month I was home. I saw quite a few aerial dogfights you know but one minute they were there and then they were gone you know. It was that — Interviewer: Very fleeting. BS: Very fleeting you know. Basically your question. I went through. I went and got in to the autumn of 1940 when they started the bombing on London. We used to get home occasionally on a forty eight hour pass. I went through London, through a couple of Blitzes you know and quite often I had to take shelter in the deep air raid, deep underground stations that they’d allocated to be air raids sort of shelters for people. So I experienced that and there were terrible scenes I saw you know before going on to Halton. So, that was, that was something to remember really, you know. So anyway, we, we continued our training at Halton which was, you know, very good. And then I actually because of the war they forced short the apprentice — Interviewer: Training. BS: Training from three years to well, less than two years. Interviewer: Yes, I was going to say I was surprised. BS: Yeah. Yeah. Interviewer: That you were — BS: Oh yes. Interviewer: That you spend time in training. BS: Yes. So, I passed, I passed out actually in July 1941 and I wasn’t eighteen. I was still only seventeen. I passed out and our training wasn’t complete but they considered we had been trained sufficiently to be able to take part. We’d learn more as we went along. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: Having joined a squadron. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: You see. Interviewer: Learning on the job. BS: That’s right. Yes. So, nineteen, I was in the, when I was left Halton I was posted to RAF Marham in Norfolk to 218 Squadron. There were two squadrons there. The Wellington squadron. Wellingtons. 115 and 218 but Wellingtons. Basically, Wellington bombers and I always remember in the train going from, up from Halton to, to Marham it was a lovely sunny day in July we heard for the first time the subject about the Russians. The Germans invading Russia. That was the first time we had heard that Russia had come into the war you see. And so we got to, got to Marham and of course straightway I was pitchforked on to the squadron and it was very interesting you know being inducted into servicing the Wellingtons. We used to have to also apart from looking after all the instrument systems, instrument repairs and replacement we had also responsibility for the navigation system as well you know because it was astral navigation in those days you know and also the oxygen system. So we had to, in those days you had to physically change the oxygen bottles after every trip, you know. Quite a lot of bottles too. That was quite a job. So that’s one of my little jobs I had to do. But one of the funny things was that the aircraft apart from dropping bombs they used to drop leaflets over Germany. I still have a sample. And also fake ration cards so the Germans would probably pick up these fake ration cards to help deplete the German rations you see. I’ve still got one of those somewhere. Anyway, so that was that but the basic thing I’ll always remember is that of course in those days bombing was, at the time we thought it was very effective but it was not very effective. There was an awful lot of missed targets. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: An awful lot of mixed targets. Interviewer: Area bombing. Yeah. BS: That’s right, and but the sad thing was you know the aircrew used to come out and used to get the captains of a bomber was only about nineteen or twenty you know. The responsibility that the lads took on then in those days was quite, it really was quite [pause] but I thinking back on it now I hardly ever saw any sign of fear. They were laughing and joking. They used to wee on the wheels for good luck and things like that you know. And the old air gunners would let off the guns into the night sky just to check on them you know in the turrets. You know and, but they always seemed to set off in a very good mood. But of course, when they didn’t come back or came back badly damaged you know often with blood. On one occasion I remember the, one came back and the rear turret was just a mass of blood and gore. Interviewer: Yes, I heard somebody else says that. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: And the damage that the, that the Wellington could take with geodetic construction was quite amazing really. Old Barnes Wallis had designed them very well indeed you know. And then once, I’d been there a few weeks when the film people came to take a, they made a film called, “One of Our Aircraft is missing.” And they came to shoot at the early stages of the aircraft taking off from our, they came around to our dispersal and they took photos of us ground crew waving to the aircraft as they took off in to the night sky on their bombing missions. Interviewer: Did they? So that was just done for the camera was it? BS: that was done for the camera really you know. And I did see and I did have a copy afterwards that I actually saw the back of me and three others just waving like mad to the aircraft that took off into the night sky. But it was a very very very poignant really. They take off into the dusk you know. Disappear. Of course, all grass airfields then. There was no runways. No runways. They were all grass airfields. And so which was quite an embarrassment really later on because in the Autumn of 1941 we converted to Stirlings. We were the second squadron to be, I’ll just get this for you [pause] to be converted to, sorry to be converted to Stirlings. Interviewer: Oh, I think I’ve seen this photograph before. Yes. BS: Yes. It’s a special. There was only a few copies made. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: That’s one of the few. Interviewer: A nice looking aeroplane. BS: Yes. But very heavy. Very big. Much bigger than the Lanc you know. They carried a bigger bomb load. But of course, the trouble with the Stirling was that the Hercules engines didn’t have the power really to get them over the Alps and they had to struggle like hell to get over to bomb Northern Italy as they used to go and bomb Turin quite a lot. But they used to struggle to get over the Alps and I think they realised that they were built like a tank. Like a fortress inside. But they just didn’t have the power really and I think actually when it came into about 1943 they were actually taken off full line bombing and became towers for the gliders and things like that. Interviewer: It's a shame because everybody now looks back and thinks — BS: Yeah. Interviewer: The Lancaster was the only bomber. BS: Oh no. No. The Stirling was she was ever she was very good in every respect bar the fact she was underpowered. But I’ve flown in a Stirling and I’ve flown, I had to get every chance I could. Air testing, you know. Those I used to fly. I’ve flown I a Stirling. I’ve flown quite a few times in Wellingtons. You know, on the air tests. I used to like to sit in the rear turrets. Quite fun. And you know so I got one for experience really and the, and another snag with the Stirling was that it was the first aircraft that ever had the electrical undercarriage. And old DC motors they requires three thick cables to really get the power through and it was quite a thing to see a Stirling with one wheel collapsed and like this on the airfield. Like you know and had to jack them up to — Interviewer: I wonder why they went for electric motors rather than — BS: I don’t know. Interviewer: Metal damage to cope with if the hydraulics had been — BS: I think so. I think it was an experiment really you know. They were coming in to a new era and you know so, you know I think they— Interviewer: A bit embarrassing if you have a generator failure. BS: Oh yes. And of course, they realised being as these were such big heavy aircraft that the grass airfield was not very good at all. You know, they used to — Interviewer: They used to get waterlogged, didn’t they? BS: Yeah. Interviewer: Some of these old grassed airfields. BS: Yeah. So soon after that that, I left the country by then that they decided to build runways you see. So, you know I, people say to me oh there’s the lady who I’m very good friends with at the moment. She’s quite a bit younger than me but if I talk about the olden days she doesn’t want to know. ‘Oh, don’t talk about the past.’ The past. But you get to my age you think about it. It’s life to you, you know what I mean? Interviewer: Yeah. BS: My memory is still so fantastically good really, you know. Way back to those days it’s as clear as a bell really. Interviewer: And didn’t you tell me that you remember Trenchard coming? BS: Oh sorry. Yes. Yes. Interviewer: He lived up to his Boom Trenchard. BS: Oh yes. Yes. Interviewer: Trenchard. Big man. BS: When the, I hadn’t been at Marham very long, perhaps, are we still oh dear. I hadn’t been at Marham very long when it was a bit of a miserable sort of day and of course we were working in the hangars and they used to say, ‘Come on. Get outside.’ You know. Assembled on the tarmac outside the hangars because there’s going to be someone giving a talk. So we went outside and stood in a big sort of circle. And suddenly this figure appeared and he was introduced as to Lord Trenchard you see and there he was in his uniform and his rather flat sort of hat. It wasn’t, a bit of a squashed looking hat on his head and he gave us a pep talk you see about how, what a wonderful job we were doing. To keep up, lads, you know. You know, sort of you know and we’ve got the Germans on the run [laughs] you know [laughs] We bloody well hadn’t at that time. Interviewer: So you took it with a pinch of salt. BS: Oh yes. I stood quite close to him actually. He had a moustache if I remember rightly. Interviewer: Yes. BS: But we weren’t told of course at the time it hadn’t really perhaps got around to me by then but we were told that he was the father of the Royal Air Force. Interviewer: Absolutely. BS: So it was a privilege to remember that, you see. Interviewer: Yes. Yes. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: And the thing that they say about Trenchard was that when forming the Air Force one of the things he really concentrated on was very good training. BS: Yes. Interviewer: To make sure not just the air crew but — BS: That’s right. Interviewer: To make sure that the ground crew had got all the skills. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: Which is what, which is quite interesting that you — BS: Yeah. Interviewer: Did spend quite a good time in training even though it was in the Second World War. BS: Oh absolutely. Oh yes. And something else I was going to say. I’ve forgotten. Oh, dear its gone from me. Interviewer: And when the Air Force — BS: Oh yes. Yes. Yes. He was, was the founder of the Aircraft Apprentice Scheme in 1923. He started it all up at Halton and it’s a wonderful training you know. Interviewer: Yes. BS: As a boy of sixteen, just sixteen to be pitchforked from home into that, you know. The sheer discipline and we learned to look after ourselves. Do our own — Interviewer: Sewing. BS: Sewing and — Interviewer: Yeah. BS: And keeping our barrack rooms clean. Kit inspection once a week. Everything had to be absolutely spot on, you know. The officer used to come around with the — Interviewer: And the aircraft apprentices have got a very good reunion and — BS: Oh well, yes. The Halton Apprentices Association. In fact, I’ve got a book there written by an air vice marshall. Ex-aircraft apprentice who used to, we used to see him actually in our reunions down at Halton and it’s about the life of an aircraft apprentice. I’ll get it out some time and show you. Interviewer: And the good thing is — BS: I’ll look it up. Interviewer: And the interesting thing is how many formal aircraft apprentices made air rank — BS: Oh yes. Interviewer: Very senior ranks. BS: They did. They did. Apart from the technical training which you of course enlarged. I mean, by the time I finished at the RAF I was very highly qualified. Instruments, electronically and everything else. You know, all the courses I went on and all that work on the V bombers. So, you know, it was, it was the sheer sort of discipline that that regulated your life and you know — Interviewer: A good start. BS: Oh yes. Interviewer: A good start. And did you say you’d, I think you just said you were just saying that you were moving on from Marham. How long did you spend there? BS: So I was at Marham from July ‘til March ’41. Interviewer: And then what was next? BS: Then what happened then was I’ll tell you a funny little story. Can I just recap a bit but when, when I passed out from Halton and I went to Marham and when I went home of course we used to get forty eight passes at any time. Not just at weekends. In the middle of the week or any time. Forty eight hour pass. Interviewer: When you could be spared. BS: When you could be spared. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: And my father who was a very very patriotic man. My father served right through the first war in the Royal Artillery, through all the modern hell of Passchendaele. You couldn’t meet a more patriotic man. King and country man everything. The fact I went in the the Air Force absolutely wonderful to him you know. Anyway, I went home on my first leave you see. And , ‘Oh,’ he said, ‘Oh,’ he said. ‘Where’s your propellers on your arms?’ He thought I was going to be a leading aircraftsman straight away. Of course, I passed out as AC1 not AC2 [laughs] you see. I didn’t get quite the response then, you know. So, so that was that. So that was a funny story really going back. Yes, so what happened then was in March, early March ’42 I was posted overseas. You never knew where you were going abroad in the wartime. You never knew where you were going but overseas. So I went home on embarkation leave for a fortnight. When I got home my mother said, Southend on Sea, my mother said, ‘Oh,’ she said, ‘Dad’s in hospital, ill. Oh, he’s got congestion of the lungs.’ So I went down to see him. He was very poorly in hospital at Rochford in Essex and anyway within a couple of days he had died. Interviewer: Oh, that’s — BS: While I was on embarkation leave. Of course, I had two sisters at home and so that was a blow. So I got a weeks extension you know for his funeral. We buried him down in, we got him buried. And so I I left home, my mother and sisters and went back to Marham to clear and went to [pause] first of all we went, I was sent up to Blackpool. Blackpool was what you called a personnel distribution centre for people going over. PDC they called it. And — Interviewer: Was that Squire’s Gate? BS: No. No. Interviewer: Actually at Blackpool. BS: That was, we were in civvy billets in Bloomfield Road opposite the football ground. Well they were all civvy billets in those days you see. Interviewer: Right. BS: And the nice house, a very nice house we were in. Anyway, we were there for a fortnight and in that time we were all kitted out for overseas. You had an idea perhaps where you were going in those days the sort of kit you got really and we were kitted out at Marks and Spencer’s and Woolworths were military kitting out places you see. Interviewer: Fantastic. BS: So we had to barter around Blackpool from one to the other being kitted out and straightaway we knew we weren’t going to India because we didn’t get a pith helmet. The pith helmet. They had the pith helmets to go into India you see. We had the old fashioned [taupes?] that they used in the sort of semi-tropical countries you know like Africa and places like that. So I had a [taupe?] I had all the rest of the khaki drill issued and then we set off. After a fortnight we were what they called drafts in those days. Then we set off by train. Took us all day in the train. Of course, no sort, they had no sort of corridor trains. They were all bloody single compartments. Interviewer: Separate compartments. Yeah. BS: And we finished up. Where the hell are we going to? We finished up it turned out in Avonmouth in Bristol. Interviewer: And you still don’t know where you’re going. BS: No. Not a clue. Not a clue. No. No. They wouldn’t tell you. So we’d not a clue. We got to Avonmouth. We offloaded from the train at the dockside and there was this big old grey steamer there for troops. She had been called the Island Princess. She had been a Argentine meat boat apparently which had been converted to a trooper. Troop carrier. So we staggered up the gangplank. Don’t know how I staggered up with kit bags. Full blooming kitted on. Your [taupe] Great coat. All the rest of our equipment. We staggered up the gangplank on to the, and straight down the gangways right down to a lower deck. One of the holds had been converted into a troop deck you see. Got down there and we were the last line of portholes going down. The Army were underneath. They didn’t have any portholes. We had the Army on board as well. And there were two hundred of us on the troop deck and we were all sleeping on hammocks and we had sort of mess tables going from the centre out to the sides of the ship you see where we allocated so many to a mess table each you see. About I don’t know about ten or twelve. Something like that. And hammocks had to be stowed in special stowage and your ordinary kit was on racks above you. So, so that was something getting used to and when we came had to sleep at night we we hung our hammocks up you know and when we all slung our hammocks we were sort of more or less touching one another you know. You always had to sleep head to toe for obvious reasons and if anybody was seasick in the night God it was hell. Interviewer: Yes. BS: Bloody awful. Interviewer: Yes. BS: You can imagine. Interviewer: I don’t want to contemplate it. I did I did three years in the Navy and — BS: Oh, did you? Interviewer: I don’t want to contemplate what it could have been like. BS: So, so anyway so that was the old troopship and, but I got used it. Actually, I enjoyed it. Anyway, we sailed out in the and we sailed out to Greenock, picked up the rest of the convoy at Greenock and we stayed there overnight and — Interviewer: But when the ship sailed did you still not know where the ship was going? BS: No. Not a clue. We hadn’t got a clue. No. Interviewer: That’s incredible. BS: Well, I hadn’t got a clue and we sailed up the Irish Sea to Greenock and there we picked up the rest of the convoy. We sailed next day. There was ships from horizon to horizon. Interviewer: So also and when was this? BS: This was the end of March ’42. The height of the U-boat war. Interviewer: Wow. BS: The height of the U-boat war and, and there were sort of Naval vessels sort of you know going around all the time but of course the convoy had to go to the speed of the slowest ship. Eight knots. That was, that was the and we were kept one in front and one behind, you know, liners. Troopers. All grey and horizon to horizon and it was just ships everywhere. And of course, I never even gave a thought to blooming U-boats. I can remember standing on the bloody bow in the heaving North Atlantic enjoying it. Isn’t this wonderful. I never gave a thought we could bloody well be torpedoed at any time, you know. Its youth you see. Nothing can happen to me. Interviewer: No. BS: So anyway, so we kept going day after day after day and getting colder and colder. We were going, we thought we were going a bit north. Anyway, eventually we, we changed course and fortunately you know we saw a couple of Condors came over but, but no we didn’t, nobody was attacked at that time. Or at least after we changed direction of course I knew we were going south and eventually after about a couple of weeks or more, two and a half weeks we landed up in Freetown in Sierra Leone and we anchored there for a couple of days. And I can remember the old [unclear] coming alongside with the natives in them wanting to sell — Interviewer: Sell things. Yeah. BS: Including their sister ships [laughs] but rain. I’ve never known rain like it in my life. Anyway, we, we set sail again. By this time the convoy was somewhat spoiled. The faster ships they let go ahead at this point you see. But anyway, we kept, we sailed on and on and on. Eventually we must have, well I still had no idea where we were going. No idea at all, you know what was happening. Where we were going. So we got down to the South of Africa. We’re going around the Cape and suddenly we were sitting down to an evening meal down on the mess decks and suddenly bang and the whole ship shuddered like hell. So the boat sirens, alarms went so we, there wasn’t panic but we went up several ladders to the upper, to the boat decks and we stood at our boat stations. There was the Acali raft station on the bloody boat. We had an Acali raft station. And the ship just, just over there was going down. You know, she was the Naval vessel had turned back and was going towards it. So we stayed, we stayed at boat stations for what must have been well over an hour. We went down again and just sat down again when another bang went up and another ship had been hit. You know sort of further away. So, and then we were told over the tannoy that we’d actually arrived into an enemy minefield laid by the Japanese ocean going submarines and not to say anything about it. Right. Well, the next day we had these little leaflets handed out to us about conditions sort of in South Africa and we were told, our draft were told that we were going to be staying in South Africa you see. Well, you know I was absolutely over the moon about this because my eldest sister in ’39, had emigrated to South Africa and so I thought at least there. Only at the last moment two days after that we docked in Durban. And the wonderful thing is I don’t know if you’ve been told about this but all the convoys used to dock in Durban in those days. They were met by a lady on the end of the moles singing and she used, as the troop ships moved in towards the harbour she’d stand on the end of the mole, this lady in a long white dress and she was singing beautifully to all the ships as they came in. She did this every time a convoy came in to Durban during the war. Singing. Beautiful singing. And we docked and we were offloaded and we were taken to a transit camp. You see what happened was that the, it was a rest camp really and all the troops going up to North Africa you know RAF and Army used to — Interviewer: Stop there. BS: Have a week or a fortnights rest in Durban. At Clairwood before going out to North Africa you see. The campaign there. But we were only there for about a week because we were staying in South Africa and I was told my post would be to a place called Port Alfred down in the Cape, Eastern Cape, near Port Elizabeth. And what had happened was the Empire Training Scheme. They trained all the aircrew in South Africa, Rhodesia, America. Interviewer: Canada. BS: And Canada. Right. So I was posted there and of course the aircraft were Ansons and Oxfords and Old Fairey Battles. [pause] BS: So of course, I was over the moon because I mean and the first the thing is to go back when we were in Durban. The residents of Durban were so patriotic they used to talk about home as England not South Africa. Interviewer: Really? BS: All English speaking and English-speaking South Africans and every evening outside Clairwood camp there would be lines and lines of cars of Durban residents lining to take the troops to their homes to give them a — Interviewer: Dinner. BS: Meal. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: And look after them and give them a good time. I remember the first night or second night we were there I was, went out with my friend intending to go in to Durban just to see things and a car pulled up just as we and we were, ‘Come on lads.’ You know. ‘Would you like to come home with us?’ So we said, ‘Yes, please.’ He turned out to be the chief education officer for Durban and we went to his beautiful house. They had three lovely daughters and of course it was, and after war torn England it was a paradise coming there. It was. It was. It was peacetime. It was beautiful living conditions you know. Interviewer: So life was beginning to look up. BS: Yes. Interviewer: At this stage. BS: And because a lot of the chaps had perhaps come from poor homes. It must have been quite an eye opener going to some of these houses you know. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: Being looked after like that. You know it really must have been quite fantastic. So anyway, so and of course all the time I was in South Africa I kept on very good friendly terms with the family and I used to go up there sometimes on leave. Anyway, I got to Port Alfred and with the, I was with the Instrument Section and we had, you know the, the Ansons and Oxfords were used for navigator training and bomb aimer training you know. And air gunner training also and the Fairey Battles were used for target towing. And could you [laughs] I don’t really know much about the old Fairey Battle but they lost — Interviewer: I’ve seen, I’ve seen photographs. BS: They’d lost an awful lot in France. Interviewer: And they were retired from active service pretty quickly weren’t they? BS: Oh, they lost a lot in France. Anyways, you know how you take your life in your hands as a young boy I would fly in anything because I loved flying you see and I remember having a couple of flights in Fairey Battles and oh God, spewing glycol and petrol over the ruddy place you know. It was [laughs]. Interviewer: And was the flying school run by Airwork’s? BS: No. Interviewer: Or was it run — BS: No. No. Interviewer: By the RAF? BS: No, it was run by the either the South African Air Force and the RAF between them. So on, on the camps you see there were quite a few camps out there they were, we were a mixture of South African Air Force and RAF. But the RAF were the main trainers. Do you know what I mean? They were the main experienced people. The South African Air Force were there as sort of because this was South Africa and our CO was a colonel, South African colonel you see. So that was fine. Ok. And so it, it was a lovely mixture really but the Air Force were the main operators as you might say. The RAF. Port Alfred and 43 Air School and — Interviewer: And as you say their duty — BS: Yeah. Interviewer: Was to push out all the air crews. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: To go back to Europe. BS: Oh yes. That’s they used to come over and they would be there for quite a few weeks and of course it’s a wonderful atmosphere to train them in in peacetime. Interviewer: Well, that’s why they set these schools up. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: A — get them away from the war and B — BS: Yes, that’s right. Interviewer: In good weather conditions. BS: That’s right. I mean the flying or navigating was perfect really and of course it was all astra navigation in those days. I mean you think back to life over here during the bombing period of those years. I mean that’s why the Americans didn’t do it up because they weren’t trained in astra navigation like our chaps were you see. You know night navigation. That’s why they took on all the — Interviewer: That was the day raids. BS: Day. Day bombing you see. So and I often used to go up you know on these trips with them. You know, I used to love to fly as much as I could. Interviewer: And was there a lot of work to be done repairing the aircraft? BS: Oh lord, yes. I mean you know it’s all the time. I mean and the wonderful thing is despite the fact that there was a war on and losses in shipping through U-boat activity and that sort of thing we never went short of spares. You know, it’s marvellous really. Interviewer: So somebody back in England must have been doing their job to get all the spares sent out. BS: Oh, the production in this country was absolutely wonderful when you think of it during the war. All firms like, you know like little engineering firms, workshops used to have contracts for for making spares and things like that you see. The, the organisation was absolutely fantastic, you know. Interviewer: So and going back to Trenchard again. BS: Oh, that’s right. Interviewer: He set the, he set the Air Force up and made sure everybody was trained. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: So when it needed to work it could. BS: Well, when you come back to it in 1934 they set up the five year plan. They built all those airfields like Cottesmore, Luffenham, Wittering, eventually Scampton all built on the same plan. You go to any station and they were all exactly the same virtually. Interviewer: Similar. Similar layouts. BS: Oh yes. H blocks and the officer’s mess. Sergeant’s Messes. Pretty well pretty much the same. This is and if it hadn’t been for that five year plan we’d have been the hell’s way in ‘39 when the war broke out. Interviewer: How long did you get to stay in South Africa then? BS: So anyway, so I stayed in South Africa until July ’45. Interviewer: Oh, so you — BS: I was there for over three years. Interviewer: You were there for three years. BS: Yeah. So — Interviewer: Was that normal for for people to spend that much time there? BS: Yes. Well, you couldn’t get home. There was no, there was no time limit to a tour in those days. Interviewer: And presumably they wanted to cut down on the amount of troop transports. BS: That’s right. That’s right. Interviewer: And so it made sense to keep you there for a good long time. BS: That’s right. I came back when the European war was over. So all the time I was out there I was very fortunate because my sister was living in Johannesburg and so the first leave I got I went up and stayed with her. Wonderful for me really. And of course, the other fellas didn’t have that. And I had some wonderful leaves and went all over the country and my sister’s husband he was working in the gold mines of Johannesburg. He joined the South African Air Force and he went up to North Africa. To a campaign up there against Rommel you see. The South African Air Force and my sister she, because her husband had gone up there she took the chance. She came down to Port Alfred and lived in the local hotel there. So — Interviewer: Your sister on [unclear] — BS: Yes [laughs] it was a most unusual situation really but it just so happened. It was luck. Interviewer: You’ve got to make these things work for you haven’t you? BS: But that’s right. Just luck. So that was that. Then in, as I say in — Interviewer: Then again when you were serving there in the, in the sort of towards the end of the Second World War was it obvious that you heard about D-Day presumably. BS: Oh, oh yes. Interviewer: You heard about how the war was going. BS: Yes. Yes. Oh yes. About [pause] what was it? In July? About January ’45 I was posted up to Pretoria to Robert’s Heights, Voortrekkerhoogte because that was Afrikaner speaking. Have you been to South Africa? Interviewer: No. Not yet. BS: Oh, you’ll have to go. Interviewer: It’s on my list of places to go. BS: Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, I want to go back again on this scheme that they’re running for veterans to go back. Interviewer: Oh brilliant. BS: And visit. Visit where with a grant from the lottery. Interviewer: Great. BS: So if I had somebody who would go with me I’d love to go back. Anyway, so I was posted up to Pretoria to a big air depot there. We were, we were sort of a big where they used to service all the aircraft instruments. They’d come in that were US you know, unserviceable. So by this time I’d been promoted to corporal. Interviewer: Was that a big jump up to corporal? BS: Yeah, well — Interviewer: As in responsibility? BS: Oh yes. Oh yes. I mean you know you know I thought it was anyway. You know. Interviewer: Well, they always say corporal, the two ranks in the Air Force that are most important are the corporal and the warrant officer. BS: Oh yes. Well, corporal because you, yes, oh yes. Yes. It was fine. Yes. And so, and then as I say in July ’45 or when, when yes we did know the war was coming to an end of course and then because it was so down, I always remember VE Day out there. We all paraded on the parade ground and were given a formal talk by the station commander there. He was another South African of course and immediately of course we were given the day off you see. So my friend and I we decided to go into Johannesburg. No. Into, into, that’s right into Pretoria itself and we were picked up by a South African colonel going in his car. Of course, we used to hitch hike all over. He took us to his house. I had a lovely time. We got as drunk as hell you know [laughs] We didn’t bloody well bother. Had a wonderful time. So that was how I spent VE Day really. I got back to Pretoria and then of course we were hanging about really for a week or two still doing our jobs of course because aircraft things still had to be serviced and looked after. And then we were posted. So July, at the end of June we were told, you know we were due to go home so we, we were taken down to Cape Town. Went down by train from Johannesburg on the, on the what do they call the wonderful train? The Blue Train they call it. Interviewer: Blue Train. Yeah. BS: Which went right down through Kimberley and the beautiful South African landscape down to Cape Town and we were there for about ten days or so in transit to Cape Town and of course it was lovely because Cape Town is a lovely area you know altogether. A beautiful place. And then we embarked on the Alcantara. A ship. A troop ship. Still the same conditions as the one I went out on really. Interviewer: But this time no U-boats shooting at you. BS: No. No. No U-boats but I’ll tell you what as soon as we sailed out from Cape Town they operated the gassing system which kept, gave you warnings of submarines. Oh, magnetic mines. That’s what they — Interviewer: Magnetic, gassing for magnetic mines. BS: Yes. Interviewer: And then Aztec obviously — BS: Yeah. Interviewer: For detecting submarines. BS: And I always remember that because we had it on the way out there. They have these what do they call the machine guns? The Oerlikons. They used to practice those every day and oh the noise they made. Interviewer: This is after VE Day. BS: Oh yeah. Well, of course I mean you know I mean things were still the same. I mean things hadn’t altered. It took time to. Of course, we sailed back in just over two and a half weeks. Nearly three weeks. So it was a much quicker easier time than — Interviewer: And when you left South Africa did you know your time in the Air Force was coming to an end or was it? BS: No. No. Because I was a regular. Interviewer: You joined up as a regular. BS: Oh, I was in for twelve years. Interviewer: Ok. So, so when you signed up in 1939 you knew you were in for twelve years. BS: [unclear] Oh that’s right. Yes. Interviewer: So presumably a lot of people that were with you were conscripted. BS: Well, obviously, yes. You had conscripted, you had a release, demob number they called it. And the lower the demob number the older you were you know. Interviewer: The quicker they were posted to — BS: The quicker you were out. But they never started demobbing until about August really. I mean this is what I gather the film on TV, one of these Foyles War things a guy came back from North Africa. He was out. Well, he wouldn’t have been out just like that. He’d have waited weeks you know. Things like that you notice. Interviewer: Well looking at it the demob procedure was very well done. BS: It was very well done. Everything was so organised believe me and I mean even the demob suits. I mean the lovely beautiful material. They were wonderful material. Shirts, all the ties. Interviewer: A pair of shoes. BS: Coat, hat, shoes. Everything. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: I mean — Interviewer: And a suitcase was it? BS: And a suitcase. Interviewer: And a suitcase. BS: That’s right. Yes. So anyway, so we got, oh yeah it was a very very pleasurable voyage. Actually, I enjoyed troopship life because you know funnily enough just to go back a bit going out to South Africa was where I learned to play chess and bridge on the deck for days on end. In the afternoon you were quite free and you’d sit about on deck you know and play cards or [pause] so I know quite a few games like that and you know so, oh I thought it was tough, spartan conditions. You know the food was very spartan and and once you got over the morning with boat drill and all that sort of thing. Of course, you know it’s, it was [pause] anyway so we got back through to Liverpool and, oh yes I’m sure it was Liverpool we docked at. And then of course we were sent our demob disembarkation leave and I went back down to Southend to my home. Interviewer: And you’d been away — BS: To my mum. Interviewer: And you’d been away for a good long time then. BS: Yes. Interviewer: When you — BS: Yeah. Can I go back a little bit? Interviewer: Of course you can. BS: My two sisters at home who had left home the younger one she joined the Wrens and she was actually stationed down in the tunnels at Dover. They had tunnels under the castle which they had and she was a wireless operator there and she was involved in all that recording all the traffic on the Channel. Which they did you know with the German traffic and everything else. She was involved in that. My other sister who’d been a dressmaker joined the RAF and became a radio operator. Wonderful things they trained girls to do. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: She hadn’t a clue what electricity was almost and here she was just an ordinary dressmaker joined the Air Force and they trained her to be a wireless op down at Yatesbury. Is it Yatesbury? Yes. Interviewer: Yes. BS: Yes, that’s right. Yatesbury. Interviewer: Near Bristol. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: Yes. Down there. And you know she qualified and eventually she was posted to Chichsands Priory which was an out station of — Interviewer: Bentley Priory. Bletchley Park. BS: Bletchley Park. Interviewer: Bletchley Park. BS: And she used to listen to all the German aircraft recording messages and pass it on to Bletchley Park. So an ordinary dressmaker. You see the people see they trained people up to do in the war you know. Interviewer: And the responsibilities that they had. BS: And the responsibility. Interviewer: At a very young age. BS: I know. Yes. Interviewer: So much so that certainly after the, when the war came to an end a lot of women who had been trained wanted to keep, use that training. BS: Well exactly. Oh yes. And she found it useful my, this other sister because when I got back from South Africa she was still in, still in the WAAF and about the following year she wanted to go out and join my sister in South Africa. But you couldn’t get passage anywhere at that time on the ships or anywhere and so she got together another group of like minded people and they bought an ex-Naval air sea rescue launch. Only about sixty seventy feet long. These twenty thirty people and they equipped it and they had these petrol engines with huge fifty gallon drums of, of fuel latched on the deck and they set off for South Africa. Took them three months to get there and she eventually did get there and of course it was in all the papers at the time. This wonderful trip made by these people. Interviewer: That must have been an experience. BS: And then when they got there they sold their boat and my sister went up to join my other sister up in Johannesburg. Well, that’s another story but so, you know those sorts of things people did you know in those days. Anyway, so, so that so I got home and when I got back I was home for a month and then I wondered where I was going to get posted to and of all places I was posted to RAF Westwood at Peterborough. There was an RAF station there training, training Free French Air Force pilots. Interviewer: Is that just north of Peterborough? BS: No. It’s on the edge of Peterborough. Right on the edge. Do you know Peterborough? Interviewer: I do but I, I — BS: If you go out to Westwood area it was you know the bit that was the Baker Perkins factory there. It was just at the back of Baker Perkins. In fact, the airfield stretched right up to Baker Perkins fence and that was all RAF Westwood. It’s all housing now and factories. Interviewer: Yes, I knew there was an airfield around but I wasn’t sure where it was. BS: So I was stationed there. I was stationed there for a short while and then after a few months, I wasn’t there all that long really I was posted to Japan. Interviewer: Right. And we’ll talk about that in the next recording. BS: Yes. Ok. [recording paused] Interviewer: I’m with Bertie Salvage and we’re talking about his experiences in the RAF and after your time in the Second World War Bertie I understand you ended up in Japan. BS: Yes. It must have been sometime in early ’46 I was posted to Japan. Of course, this came as quite a surprise to me. Of all places to go to. To the occupation force in Japan because at that time Honshu, the main island was divided into half. The Americans occupied the upper part and the British Commonwealth Occupation Force as it was called occupied the lower half of Honshu, you know which was between Army and RAF. And what, what they’d done is when the occupation forces moved in they’d taken over old Japanese military establishments including airfields and when I got there I was posted to a place called Miho which had been another Japanese airfield where they trained the Kamikaze pilots. And the south, the south of Japan, or the south west southwest corner of Japan. But anyway going back to to going we set off from Tilbury in an old boat called the SS Ranchi and this had been an old P&O boat you know. Quite an old boat and it had been fitted out as a troop ship and it took us six weeks to get to Japan believe it or not. We think these days they are there in about sixteen hours. Almost. Not quite. A bit more than that but it took us six weeks to get there. All through the Med and down through stopping off at, in Port Said, Aden, Columbo, Singapore. It was quite, Shanghai, Hong Kong then into a place called Kure in Japan which had been a big Japanese naval base. And it had been fantastic, you know the thought of going to Japan. You know this place that we’d all heard of as you know created such, you know treated, given our boys such a bad time in the war in the Far East and it was quite a fascinating thought of going there. Anyway, arrived at Kure and going through the Japanese inland sea was quite an experience. All the little volcanic islands which were quite picturesque. Eventually landed at Kure. Anyway, we were entrained across to Miho, this ex-Japanese base and of course it’s quite interesting to see the Japanese landscape. It was very hilly and mountainous. Very forested all over. Of course it’s a volcanic, volcanic origin Japan so it is, you know it is very hilly. So we landed at Miho and I was posted on to, well basically 17 Squadron Spitfires but 11 Squadron was there as well and basically I was really working on both squadrons but administratively I was sort of on the strength of 17 Squadron. And the object of the, was although we were an occupation force the main job really was to patrol the sea around Japan off the, across the Yellow Sea and you know as far on the way across towards China and all over that area for some reason or other. But anyway, so that was very interesting being there. Interviewer: Did you get to see much of the country at all? BS: Yes. Interviewer: Whilst you were there. BS: Yes. I got, I just to go back a bit it was interesting because all these, all the domestic staff on the camp were Japanese. Ex-Japanese Army and lots and lots of Japanese, and lots and lots of Japanese girls used to come on the camp every day doing all the menial tasks. In fact, the funny thing was that the, I was a corporal when I went there still and whilst had been there nearly a year I was promoted to sergeant. After I was promoted to sergeant I was moved to the Sergeant’s Mess. I was given my own sort of room and I was issued with a room girl who used to attend to all my domestic requirements. She used to clean my room and keep doing my washing and ironing and everything else. So that was quite an experience in itself and whilst I was there we had a NAAFI canteen of course which we, which we used to use and this was staffed by English girls in the WRVS who had been sent in to to run the canteens for the troops you see. And I happened to meet the manageress of the local NAAFI canteen and get to know her quite well. Gladys. And she, like the other girls were living in the Officer’s Mess. They were given the honorary rank of flight lieutenant because there was no other sort of way we could accommodate them really. Interviewer: The equivalent. Yeah. BS: You see. Because the Japanese were really off limits in the sense, in the sense that when you went out in Japan we were pretty well limited to we’d go in the shops and things. We weren’t really supposed to go in their houses and that sort of thing you know. You know, we were and all our provisions were you know were provided by either America, Australia or New Zealand or Australia. They used to come from all over the, the western world one might say. Of course, the Japanese had nothing. They had only rice and fish to eat you see. Of course, they weren’t ever proper meat eaters before that. They’d sort of produced dairy herds and that sort of thing. They lived on rice and fish. Anyway, so that was the situation there. So I got to know Gladys very very well and we eventually at the time I was there we, we courted as one might say and eventually I married her in Japan. And by this time she had been sent down to Iwakuni which was the main RAF base headquarters down, down near Kure. The RAF airfield at Iwakuni and it was the Communication Flight there. They had Dakotas there which they used to supply the, communicate with the RAF other establishments in Honshu and she got posted there to the WRVS canteen there and I wangled, by this time I’d been promoted to sergeant, by this time I wangled a posting down there myself you see. I think they took pity on me at Miho. Anyway, so I was posted down to Iwakuni as well. It was at Iwakuni that Gladys and I had as service wedding. And of course the funny thing was that of course I was working on the Dakotas there and the funny thing was that she was living in the Officer’s Mess there and I I was living in the Sergeant’s Mess. So after we got married we had to go back to the same situation. The only time I could see her was in the Officer’s Mess at Iwakuni. The WRVS had a separate sort of living room you see and I could visit her in this living room, you know. The only time I could see her inside anywhere. This went on for about nearly two months after which time we came home. But it was very interesting and when we did get married there we, we had a honeymoon up at a place called Koana just outside Tokyo. This was a beautiful hotel on the shores of the Pacific. It had been built by the Japanese to house the 1940 Olympic games which never took place. To house the contestants and everybody. So this was taken over as one of the leave hostels. Of course, what happened was that when the occupation force moved into Japan they sorted out all different sort of different sort of posh places around the country for troops to have a break. Interviewer: R&R. Yeah. BS: And one of them was at [Kyrenia?]. At Kyoto. Beautiful old famous beauty spot in Japan and going back a bit before I was married to Gladys I had a weeks leave up at Kyoto which was very fine indeed. It was up in the American sector actually near Tokyo. Anyway, so Gladys and I went to Koana. This was an absolutely wonderful fortnight and we actually had a week at Koana and a week down in Kobi at a beautiful Japanese house which had been the residence of the Baron Simotomo who had been executed as a war criminal and they’d taken over his old house as one of the leave hostels as it were. So we had the second week of our honeymoon there and it was absolutely fantastic. But the one of the things that you could see was in the distance to the top of Mount Fuji sticking up. You know with this white top. So that was that. Anyway, when it came time to come home I, we came home on a the old Dilwara which was a properly built troop ship and they used to call it the kit badge because they painted the big blue band around. And of course, Gladys came home first class as officer status. Interviewer: Oh very nice. BS: Whereas I of course was on the troop deck with the senior NCOs. Second class. So she came home first class and I came home second class and the only time I could see her was on the second class promenade deck. I wasn’t allowed through to the bloody first class either [laughs] Oh dear. Interviewer: Only the Air Force could do that. BS: And the thing is we had of course like all ships had OC troops on board. Like all troops had a usually a colonel who sort of late on in years. Interviewer: Yes. BS: You might say. Interviewer: Yes. BS: And at one stage she was, poor old Gladys got seasick. She wasn’t a good sailor and I got special treatment from the OC troops to go down to her cabin to give her first aid [laughs] Oh, it was, anyway we stopped off at Singapore and Columbo and we managed to get to shore and spend a bit of time together. BS: Not much though. So the only sort of married life I had was when we got back home to England really. So, but going back to but as 17 and 11 Squadrons on American Independence Day, the 4th of July, isn’t it? Interviewer: Yes. BS: We were invited, the whole, both squadrons were invited up to a place called [pause] called [pause] Oh dear. The name’s gone from me for the moment but a big airfield near Tokyo which the Americans had taken over. Kizarizu. Kizarizu. That’s the name of the place. And we were invited up there to help take part in their celebrations you see. As I’ve got pictures of the two squadrons all lined up at Kizarizu. Which I, which I took when I was there. And we had a nice two or three days there really at the Americans are very — Interviewer: Very hospitable and all that. BS: Very very hospitable. Interviewer: Yes. BS: And they had [pause] yes what the hell, oh yes the famous American fighter. Lightnings I think they called them. Interviewer: P38 was the twin engine. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: With the tail booms. BS: That’s right. But before that going back to when I was at Miho the, the New Zealand air force they had corsairs used to land on — Interviewer: They’re air craft carrier Corsairs yeah. BS: And I’ve actually worked to service Corsairs as well. Interviewer: Well, the Royal Navy had them as well of course. BS: Yeah. That’s right. Yes. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: Yes. So a corsair. They were nice aircraft. And so anyway so after six weeks we got back to England and of course when we got back to England Gladys the WVS, she had been in the Far East you see and of course when the, when the war ended she was moved up with the occupation forces so she was there before me you see. So anyway got back to England she was, and of course she went across to her home which was at Withernsea, East Yorkshire and I went for debriefing as it were to that place up on the Wirral. An old RAF station there. What was it? I’ve forgotten the name of it now but it was it was a sort of like a distribution place you know where you used to go for debriefing after being overseas and what not. Interviewer: Before my time. BS: [unclear] and all that and, yes. And of course, I and then of course I went on disembarkation leave and of course I went across to Gladys’ home in Withernsea on the East Yorkshire coast and for the first time I met her parents. It was ever so funny that. And, but I must say I did enjoy my time in Japan. It was eighteen months or so. It was quite an experience. Oh yes. Another thing I forgot to mention is that when I was at Iwakuni we were very near Hiroshima and I went to Hiroshima several times and I saw it in its devastated stated and all that and going back to that time unfortunately I lost my first wife to cancer. Breast cancer. She contracted it in 1954. ’54, and she died in 1960 and at the time they did wonder if she had picked up radio activity. Interviewer: Out in Japan. BS: Yes. Because we went to Hiroshima several times and you know saw it and also saw Nagasaki too at one time. So, anyway but Tokyo also Tokyo was an absolute mess as well. That was bombed to hell. Interviewer: And did you get any feeling for what the Japanese thought about the war? BS: The Japanese. Well, typical of the Oriental mind as soon as the Emperor said stop, finished and it was all bowing and cowing. Every time you spoke to the Japanese it was always like this. Even the military. And in fact, I don’t know whether you know it but after the war was finished when we, when we sort of took back Sumatra and Java like that we used the Japanese forces to control all the blooming rebels. They came under our control and we were, we were organising all their troops that were still there and they were as obedient as anything. Interviewer: They had a very strong sense of leadership. BS: This was their nature. Very very strong. Interviewer: Very hierarchical — BS: Yes. Of course. Interviewer: Society. BS: The Japanese on a parade if the officer was just for you to turn around and hit the sergeant, hit a corporal the corporal would pick a private out and give him a thrashing. That’s why we used to hand the can back as I say. Interviewer: Hand the can back. I haven’t heard that before. BS: Oh yeah. Hand the can back. Oh yeah. Yeah. Pass the can back yes. Hand the can back. Yeah. Interviewer: But you enjoyed your time there. BS: Oh, I enjoyed all my Air Force career. Every bit of it. I had, I didn’t want to leave. The only reason why I left I was over fifty five, late forties when I came out it’s because we were at Wittering and we’d bought a house in Stamford. My son was at Stamford School and of course it’s a very good school. Interviewer: Yes. BS: Stamford School. And my daughter was coming up for there and so I was due to be posted to Aden or due to be posted abroad And we didn’t want any. I didn’t think Gwen wanted to move, my second wife that is so we decided and I’d had this very good job offered me with PERA at Melton Mowbray so — Interviewer: As we say it’s a no brainer at that stage probably to— BS: Well, yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: It was Production Engineering and Research Association and I was offered a job as a senior author there. Of course, with of my technical experience in the RAF. Interviewer: It was time to leave. Interviewer: Yeah. The wonderful technical training I had in the Air Force was second to none. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: And all the way through. You had your basic training but you keep on going on course after course after course. BS: Again, back to — Interviewer: I mean courses had six months. BS: Back to that old training again. Interviewer: Yes. I mean my electronic training and technical training was second to none when I came out. BS: Ok. Well, we’ll talk about that in the next session. Interviewer: Yes. [recording paused] BS: Do a quick sort of lead into that really. Interviewer: Ok. Well, I’m with, I’m still with Bertie Salvage and we’ve gone through the Second World War. We’ve talked a little bit about time after the Second World War and now we’re starting to talk about his — BS: That’s right. Interviewer: Memories of the V Force and you know — BS: Yes. Interviewer: 1954 onwards. BS: That’s right. Well, just to go back to 1951. I was posted out to Egypt. The Canal Zone. For three years on Deversoir on the Canal. On the Canal, you know. Interviewer: Did that posting come out of the blue or did you ask for that? BS: Oh no. That came out the blue because I can always remember when we came back from Japan going through the bloody Suez Canal I looked across at the bleak desert area and all the different military camps and I thought oh God I hope I never get posted here. Interviewer: Yes. I hear that’s what most people say their first — BS: I know I was posted out to Deversoir in Egypt. Of course, it was a bit of, a bit of a hammer blow to take but I actually it was quite nice there really. It was right on the edge of the Great Bitter Lake. I was on 249 Squadron. 213, on Vampires. And of course it was my first real, I had worked on Meteors before but it was my first real experience to be working on jet aircraft. They were lovely aircraft, the Vampire. Interviewer: Yes. BS: Have you ever flown one? Interviewer: No. No. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: No. BS: It took us, anyway so I worked on that and so in 1954 I got posted back to England and after my month’s disembarkation leave I was posted to RAF Gaydon. Never even heard of it before. But Gaydon had been a wartime station which they were re-starting again you know sort of — Interviewer: They started to put some money into some of the — BS: It had been held in like a sort of mothball condition. Interviewer: Care and maintenance. BS: Care and maintenance. Mothballed. And so they decided to start that off and start that off as as the initial V bomber training station you know. Of course, there would just be the V bombers. What happened was that the Victor, the Vulcan and the Victor were the first ones to be designed but they were going to take a long time to get into, into operations so they decided to as a stop gap to build the Valiant which Vickers had said they could build far quicker for them as a, as a stop gap and really until the Victors and the Vulcans were available. So I was posted to RAF Gaydon as an instructor on the Technical Training School. Of course it was going to be the OCU. Interviewer: Yes. BS: The aircrew were going to be trained there and also the ground crew people servicing the aircraft you see. So I was posted on to be the instructor on instruments on the, on the Valiant first of all. So of course, when I got there I think the very first Valiant was there. Anyway, I was straightaway sent away on long courses. I had quite a few weeks down at Vickers at Weybridge where they were being made, built there. I went to different other manufacturers of different instruments and things. GPI and Mark 4s, these all sorts. Interviewer: The navigation equipment on the aeroplane. BS: Yeah. Yes. And also the NBS bombing system which they used. And so I went on these long courses and I got back to Gaydon eventually and by that time of course I think another sort of couple of others were there or something and we set up the school. And I was in instruments, we had all the other trades, instruments, air frames, armaments you know and so of course I had to straight away set about creating all my instruction notes, my instruction techniques and programmes. All the, when you go in to instructing you have that all to do. Interviewer: Yes. I remember that. Yes. BS: Because, [unclear] because you really start to learn other things you know. You really start to realise how much do I know about my job and that sort of thing. And when it came to start teaching of course it was, it was a bit tough at first but I really got into it you know. Interviewer: Yes. BS: And I got so used to writing up the authorship, authoring my own notes that it I found it very interesting indeed. Interviewer: And working with the manufacturers is normally quite — BS: Oh yeah. Interviewer: You get a lot of job satisfaction if you — BS: Yeah. I went to Coventry to HSD, Hawker Siddeley Dynamics and everywhere and also to [pause] no that was later on I went to Ferranti when I was on the Blue Steel. So, you know. So, yes you got used to it. I spent quite a month or two I suppose going around different manufacturers. Cheltenham down to — Interviewer: Smiths. BS: To Smiths. Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: You know, all sorts of different places. Anyway, of course you collate all this knowledge, put it all together and you know and, and the first day I had to instruct, you know the chaps are sitting there. I thought it was, you know it was quite an experience really. Interviewer: And what rank are you by now? BS: I was still a sergeant. Interviewer: Still a sergeant. Yeah. BS: Yes. Promotion was a bit slow and anyway I was going to go for the chief tech which I got a bit later on. Interviewer: And what was living I mean England was still rationing going on in this period. BS: Yeah, so what happened was when I first went to Gaydon of course there were no married quarters so they said to us go and find yourself a hiring somewhere and we’ll take it on. So I looked around South Warwickshire. I don’t know whether you know South Warwickshire. It’s a lovely county. Interviewer: Not really. It’s a nice part of the world though, isn’t it? BS: [unclear] and all down Stratford Upon Avon. All down that way because we were near Stratford you see and so I found myself a little — Interviewer: This was before the M40 of course. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: I found myself a little village called, down near Moreton in the Marsh called called Brailes and I found a little tiny cottage there. A country cottage. And so I moved Gladys down there, my wife with, who had our first boy then, our son by then. She was also, no she had got the two boys by then. We had two sons. So she came and so I was living out. It was about twelve miles away from there so I used to go in and backwards and forwards to Gaydon every day. So we were living in married and they started to build married quarters but they weren’t going to be ready for another year you see. So, so that went on really and of course getting to know the aircraft better and the chaps coming through. It used to be a fortnight, two weeks course or two or three weeks and then would be about a week and then have another lot come in then. Interviewer: And is National Service still going on at this stage? BS: And I’m going to say this, oh yes, National Service run to 1960 ’61. So National Service but what impressed me was a lot of national service chaps coming through HN, Higher National Certificate. Well trained chaps. Interviewer: Chaps that decided to join the Air Force rather than — BS: That’s right. Interviewer: And they were a two year commitment were they? BS: The two year commitment. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: But they were most interesting to teach because they were so receptive. I bet you could tell them something they’d know straightaway through their engineering background. They were a joy to teach really you know. They were so good. It’s like it was during the war of course where they had all these skilled people in from outside and — Interviewer: The interesting thing to me if people joined on a two year National Service if they spent a year or eighteen months training they would be only be productive for six months. BS: Oh, I know. That’s right. Well, they used to spend about six months training I suppose up to the basic mechanics but I’d get these chaps in and you know they were highly really highly qualified. Interviewer: And of course, in the early 50s of course, there was a massive expansion of the Air Force because of Korea. BS: Oh yes. That’s right. Interviewer: And a lot of training schools were set up then. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: A lot of aircrew were pumped through. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: And obviously there would have been all the Meteor training outfits. BS: That’s right. Yes. So I was at, I was at Leconfield when the Korean War was on and we sent aircraft. Oh yes, when I was at Gaydon the Suez Crisis erupted. Interviewer: ’56. BS: Well, because I’d just come back from Suez only the previous year. Oh, of course. Yes. BS: And I was, I got we went through quite a lot of trouble out there with it before it fully broke out really. You know had a lot of trouble really. Anyway, but the Suez Crisis broke out and of course we had to get involved in that and we sent two or three Valiants out there with bombed up and ready to go and you know. Interviewer: They went to Malta, didn’t they? BS: They went to Malta. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: Yes. The service sort of evolved in that. So after, oh about 1957 or thereabouts we had the first Victors and so yes I also went then. I went on. I was taken off and went on the quite a few [unclear] of course to Handley Page at Radlett and did the Victor. On the Victor. So when I came back I was trained up on the Victor but what happened was that because it was a bit of a struggle to teach on two aircraft like that because we still had the Valiants there. A few Valiants. They had another chap come in to supplement me to, you know on the Victor so I did a bit of teaching on the Victor but this other guy sort of did more and more of that really on the actual instrumentation side. So I still sort of really concentrated on the Valiant. But I did, when he was away I used to do the Victor as well you know. So but very similar the systems really you know. Particularly the NBS system and the navigation equipment and everything else and basically the flying was pretty much it was just the layouts and things. But general principles were the same. So it was all very interesting though while I was there. So I suppose do you want me to go on from there? Interviewer: Yeah, I just wondered, you know — BS: Yeah. Interviewer: So how long did you stay on at Gaydon? BS: Sorry? Interviewer: How long did you spend at Gaydon then? BS: At Gaydon, I was, what happened was when I was at Gaydon unfortunately while I was there my first wife contracted cancer and she was given basically first of all two years to live then she actually lived for five so although I was really screened on this instructing job. It was how shall I put it? More heavily emphasised that I was screened because of Gladys’ illnesses. Interviewer: Yeah. Domestic situation. Yeah. BS: And through that time I was put up for a branch commission in the engineering branch but I had to turn it down because I couldn’t leave my wife, you see. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. BS: So that, so that was that but anyway that didn’t matter. So that was that so, and then, so she died in 1960 and eventually I left in 1962. I was posted to RAF Newton. Not got posted but I was despatched there on the Skybolt course because I was designated. Because of my experience of technical you know side of thing they decreed that I should go on the Skybolt. Interviewer: They needed someone to bring Skybolt into service. BS: So I went to Newton for six months. I’d all the instrumentation electronic side of control and guidance of the Skybolt missile. Interviewer: And did you get out to America? BS: No. Interviewer: During that time. BS: Unfortunately, I got back to Gaydon and we were given a couple of weeks to pack up and we’d packed up almost with a few, well with a week I think of going to America. My wife was, well the whole family was going to go together to Denver in Colorado and then after that we were going to go down to Florida to Eginton or Eglington. Interviewer: Eglin. BS: Eglin. Interviewer: Not Elgin. Eglin. BS: We had to go to Eglin. Interviewer: Yes. BS: Down on the Caribbean. Interviewer: On the — BS: Yes. Where we were — Interviewer: The Florida coast. BS: Two years and got fully Skybolt trained to come but a week or two before they decided to ditch Skybolt in favour of the Polaris for the submarine as a strategic missile. Interviewer: Well, my understanding is Skybolt isn’t doing very well and — BS: Yeah. Yeah. Interviewer: JFK met with Macmillan. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: And — BS: Yeah. That’s right. Interviewer: JFK offered, the Americans offered to give the Brits the chance to develop it and, and Macmillan thought the best way out of that was to buy Polaris instead. BS: That’s right. Yes. Interviewer: Which JFK agreed to. BS: Yes. So that’s why I didn’t go. So that, so that was that finished. So of course I was then it was a few weeks in. I was a chief technician by this time well I had been for a flight sergeant. Anyway, so I think because of my Skybolt experience they decided that I should go to Blue Steel. Interviewer: Quite logical. Yes. BS: Yes, so because of my, so back I went to Newton and because I’d already done the Skybolt six months I was spared the initial training on Blue Steel because it was still the basic sort of training on electronics you see. Interviewer: Yes. BS: So I went back to Newton for three months on the Blue Steel system itself. So I went back in, that was 1963 and I went back until March 1964 or March or April of ’64. So I learned all the, when I was involved on Blue Steel what was the control, the guidance system. The inertial navigation system, the control system which was the gyro control like auto pilot. Interviewer: You had an inertia navigator didn’t it? BS: Oh yes. Yeah, I did, I had to go to Ferrantis for that, you know. And also the flight rules computer. I was involved with all this, that [unclear] on that so I was really fully technically trained on the control and guidance system of the Blue System. I don’t think there’s many people left. Interviewer: Just a handful I think probably that remember it. BS: Yes. Interviewer: In any details. BS: Anyway, so that was very interestingly and fantastically the courses I went on what you learned. Interviewer: Who built the missile Blue Steel? Do you remember? BS: It was HSD, Coventry. Interviewer: Oh, Hawker Siddeley. Yeah. BS: Yes. So, we went across there again as well. So, so I went back to Newton for that and eventually then I got posted to, well it was either Scampton or Wittering. We didn’t know. Anyway, I was, I was posted to Scampton, to Wittering. But of course, all the time I was at Wittering we had this strong liaison with Waddington with, with Scampton. Interviewer: Scampton. BS: Because I mean the systems on the two were, the Blue Steels were identical really. I mean — Interviewer: A missile is identical it’s just — BS: A missile. Yes. Interviewer: It’s just a question of how it plugged in to the aeroplane. BS: That’s right. Yes. But so when I went to Wittering they had built a huge new hangar there with all the servicing workshops and offices. Administrative parts and also the HTP as you called it. Interviewer: High test peroxide. BS: Yeah. The — Interviewer: The Gin Palace. BS: The Gin Palace. Yes. That was right next to the hangar and they were closely associated so I was straightway when I went to Wittering I was put in the, they had a, you know the laboratories and the calibration rooms of the workshops for the controls guidance systems. And so I was put in, I was put in charge of that really and you know obviously had staff who would be trained up like me but so for several, a year or two I was involved in the service and maintenance of the systems going on the missile. Interviewer: And can you remember any test firings and things like that? BS: Well, yes. I didn’t actually. I think they took off from the Welsh coast didn’t they? Interviewer: They would have fired probably some in the Aberporth range. BS: Yeah. The Aberporth ranges. Yes. Interviewer: Yeah but — BS: But I never went over there. Some people did but I never got in because I was involved in the, in the servicing. Interviewer: Servicing. BS: Testing and calibration of the systems really, you know. Interviewer: And it was quite a complicated piece of kit, was it? My understanding was that you had to align the inertial and fly [unclear] and then — BS: Oh lord. Oh yes. Yes. You did. Yes. You did all that and of course we had in the iron department as we called it we had a higher complex system of calibration instruments to land the [tryoscopic] the brake hold, brake control charge had to be absolutely perfectly set up and [unclear] you know you set that with the oscilloscopes and that sort of thing and the Flight Rules Computer, the FRC, what happened was that the, the Blue Steel would be dropped from about forty thousand feet. The motor would kick in, climb up to about sixty thousand, fly for about two hundred miles, then freefall on the target. That was the [pause] Now as soon as it was launched they got up to altitude then the control system would fit in, it would click in to the control and guide the thing directed by the Flight Rules Computer which was the FRC. So the computer would take it to target with the controls being functioned by the control system provided. Interviewer: And Ferranti I presume did all the, did that part of the — BS: That’s right. Yes. Yes, it’s from the [INC] to the FRC to the control system and they did. Everything would lock off at a certain point and it would just freefall on to target. That’s the, that was the theory. But so all three were closely combined really. [INC[ IN, THE FRC, the control system. Interviewer: And how did they get on regarding the aeroplane and guiding the missile when it was loaded with its, with the weapon? BS: Well, I’ve been, well let’s put it this way I never actually went out to the, out of the QRA system. What happened was that there used to be at least one, perhaps sometimes two at the end of the runway. Quick Retaliation Aircraft they called it. The QRA. And there was always an aircraft, one or two out there all the time. Interviewer: Loaded up and ready to go. BS: And the crew on board as well. Ready to go within minutes you know. To take off and there would have been a guard out there I assume. I never actually went out there. Interviewer: So if you had to service the missile — BS: Oh yes. Interviewer: The warhead would be taken off. BS: Oh lord, yes. Well, I was all the time you never did any servicing unless the missile was actually in the hangar. Not to the point of its control system. Oh yes. They’d take the pod out and then they’d bring the missile in. The pod was put in, you know — Interviewer: So the warhead was called the pod, was it? BS: The pod. Interviewer: Ok. BS: The pod, yeah. I saw several. Well, I saw. I never had anything to do with them but I mean they used to keep we had the bomb dump at Wittering. It’s still there I think. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. BS: The Navy used to, the Navy used it. Interviewer: Well, the bomb dump at Wittering was used, you know. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: It was the first bomb dump for the first nuclear weapons. BS: I think it’s still functioning is it? They, I think they were — Interviewer: I’m not too sure what it’s used for now. BS: I think I’ve seen Navy vehicles going in there. Yeah. Interviewer: Yeah. Quite possibly being used as a storage area. BS: Yes. Yeah. Oh yes. Yes. It was. I never actually went in it but I, you know, I know where it was [unclear] but I never actually went inside but yes they used to. There was a lot of, a lot of fuss when they used to be loading them up with the pod you know but that was quite, and then of course as I was saying what [pause] what was it? About 1967 or thereabouts they decided that they wanted more people to come into the system. Technicians you know. And they decided to set up the Blue Steel Training School. Technical Training School at Wittering. In the Blue Steel hangar. And I was appointed, because of my instructing experience, my vast experience they asked me to set it up and run it as as organiser and also to instruct myself as a flight sergeant at this time. Instruct. Instruct. Instruct on it you see as well as organise all the other trades. So we, we, we have this scheme running. We used to have them in for about a week or two and teach them the systems, you know. So I was running that, the Technical Training School there because of my experience. Interviewer: And did that do that do, that did all the training for Blue Steel so chaps would come down from Scampton and to do the course with you. BS: Well, I think Scampton had, I think they must have had their own scheme because I don’t remember people coming from Scampton. I think they had their own scheme running up there. I’m pretty sure because I was just really involved with those coming into Wittering really. But I’m sure they must have done. So I was heavily involved with that. So you see my experience is very deep on the technical side on the ring of steel. Interviewer: The thing that appeals to me is the fact that you started on learning your trade back in 1939. BS: That’s right. Yes. Interviewer: And here we are thirty years on. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: Still using the basics of electrics. BS: Oh, that’s right. Interviewer: But applying it into a much more modern system. BS: Oh, [unclear] all, I mean I didn’t know a thing about electronics and a finite mechanism you know and the correlation between the two mechanics to electrics and backwards and forwards. You know what I mean. Interviewer: The beginning of digital computing. BS: The transfers, oh yes. Oh yes. That was a appealing. The FRC was. Of course, it was all sort of transistors then. You know, transistor technology. So, you know and, and of course, you know apart from being taught you learn a lot through reading too. You know, it’s all — Interviewer: And you must have seen a terrific change in the Air Force to have gone from the Second World War. BS: Oh, right through. Interviewer: To the time of Korea. BS: Oh yes. Interviewer: And conscription still going on. BS: Listen, this is about me. I think — Interviewer: National Service. BS: I went through the most fascinating period really right through to, you know from basic things like this blooming Valentia. Interviewer: Yes. BS: To — Interviewer: Yeah. BS: To, to V bombers, you know. And of course, at Cosford they have the, the Cold War hangar there. Interviewer: They do, yes. Yeah. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: I’ve been just the once. BS: Yes. Interviewer: And I must go again. BS: Yes, I, pardon? Interviewer: I’ve just been the once and I must go again. BS: Yeah, well you see my daughter lives at Lichfield so it’s only just a stone’s throw from there so when I go, I’ve been once or twice you know. She takes me there. Yes and of course they’ve got a Blue Steel there. And I’ll tell you where else I saw Blue Steel. Out at Newark. You know out at Newark. Interviewer: At the Air Museum. BS: Yes. Interviewer: I think there’s one. BS: I found it a pretty tatty when I went down. Interviewer: Yes. BS: [unclear] Interviewer: That’s the problem with museums. They get things in quite bad condition sometimes. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: And they have to allocate them time. BS: Yeah. Interviewer: To renovate them. BS: Yes. Interviewer: And bring them up to — BS: Yes. Interviewer: Their former glory. BS: And the amazing thing is, or the sad thing is that there’s only one Valiant and that’s at Cosford. That’s the only one. The only is one that is in existence now. Interviewer: Well, the problem with you know the large aeroplanes is that if you leave them out in the open — BS: Oh aye, well — Interviewer: They rot very quickly. BS: They do. Interviewer: So I know the Irish museum — BS: Yeah. Interviewer: Say they have a problem with big aeroplanes. BS: Yes. Interviewer: They just don’t have the room for them all. BS: No. No. Interviewer: And they’re wondering when the TriStar retires. BS: That’s right. Interviewer: Where they’re going to have space to put one of those. BS: Yes. Yes. So you know so when the Blue Steel they decided to start phasing about ’69 ’70. I just stayed on for a bit longer then I decided to retire from the Air Force. Interviewer: Time for pastures new. BS: Didn’t really want to go but I was really, circumstances made it. But fortunately, I went in to a very very good job at PERA and of course [pause] do you want me to go on? Interviewer: Yes. Keep going. BS: When I went to PERA at Melton Mowbray I don’t know whether you know or have heard of it. Interviewer: No, I’ve not heard of them. BS: Production Engineering and Research Association. They trouble shoot for the engineering industry. They’ve experts in every field. Interviewer: And did, did they approach you or did you hear about it? BS: No. I heard about them so I approached them and they wanted to interview me and I got the job before I left the Air Force. Interviewer: Fabulous. BS: Yeah. So that was it. So I, they have this, all these different departments for troubleshoot. Expert top engineers and you know — Interviewer: Sounds a fantastic organisation. BS: These particularly the machine tool industry would send people there on courses and they would have experts from PERA go to different factories to give them advice on production engineering. Interviewer: Sounds fantastic. BS: So they always had this large technical authorship department as well which they write up handbooks for different industries you know. So I applied but of course because of my RAF experience they had a contract. They had a contract with the Admiralty. Interviewer: Right. BS: To write up the manuals for the nuclear submarines at Barrow. So I was sent up to bloody Barrow in Furness on this contract. I was on HMS Churchill for months writing up the control systems on the nuclear submarines of the of the CO2 scrubber systems. You know the air is scrubbed clean and it’s ejected into the deep water to leave the oxygen to go back into the, into the hull. You know. And I wrote up all these you see because of my experience. But you know so that was a very fascinating really. So, so anyway after a couple of years I one of the member firms was a firm called Newall Engineering Group at Peterborough here. They wrote, they produced these, these very very sophisticated machine tools. Grinders and jig borers and things like that for the machine tool for the mainly for the automotive industry. You know, car factories. So they were a member firm of PERA and they were looking for a, and we used to write books for them. But they wanted their own chief author you see. So I applied and I got the job. I wanted to come nearer home. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: I was so fed up with — Interviewer: Yes. Yeah, you get — BS: Yeah. Interviewer: Commuting gets a bit wearing. BS: That’s right. It’s interesting but you know. Interviewer: No I thought — BS: So I thought I would come so it was a very very good job and I’d be my own boss there you know and [unclear] so I went to PERA. I went to — Interviewer: Right. BS: Newalls at Peterborough and I had to really convert my mind but using basic engineering knowledge to these highly sophisticated machine tools. Jig borers and high speed grinders which used to grind crank shafts and [cannon] shafts. And that was fascinating because you use your basic engineering knowledge. Although I didn’t know anything about them you still get through. Interviewer: Yeah, its — BS: You, you have to spend all the time in the drawing office with them and the designers. The people and really pick their brains really. Interviewer: But if you’d been trained well in the first place it’s not difficult — BS: Oh no. Interviewer: To pick up something new is it? BS: No. No. Not at all. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: And the idea being that you were, you could have this information, collate it write it in a presentable form you know people could read and understand, take it back and do you understand? Can you read it? And they would make, they would criticise. Interviewer: Yeah. BS: You know so you — Interviewer: Critique. BS: So that’s right so then you produce the complete manual. The interesting thing was that we supplied the machines all over the world to, to China, to, to Russia, to, to Sweden, to France to, you know all sorts of places we sold machines to, particularly Russia. Interviewer: Did you get to travel there? BS: Oh no. I didn’t unfortunately. Interviewer: No. BS: But my books of course had to be translated in to the — Interviewer: The native language. BS: Exactly. So as soon as I had produced a manual for machines that were going somewhere I had to get it and I had to go to the translator, we used to translate it in London. I used to go down to the translators, get the books translated, bring it back and then all us engineers used to come across you know to check the machines before going to the different countries. And they’d want to read the manual so you had to give them the manual in their language for to see if they understood you know and usually you know they went down pretty well really. And the thing is that trans, technical translation is not like ordinary translation it has to be done by A — a national of the country concerned which was just going plus the fact it has to be an engineer. Interviewer: Yes. You’ve got it. Yes. BS: So you’ve got to have the two. There’s no good getting a chap whose learned Russian or French to do it. Interviewer: Yes. BS: It’s got to be a national of the country concerned. Interviewer: Have you ever read any books, manuals on Japanese hifi you’ll know. BS: Oh, I know. Interviewer: It says press button B to — BS: In my experience I’m, oh I’m very critical of that. Very critical. So that was that really. So — Interviewer: Well, very well. Thanks for telling me about your, a little bit of time about your time after you left the Air Force. BS: Yes. Interviewer: Thank you. BS: Yeah. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Bertie Salvage Salvage, Bertie-Cold War-World War II Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SHarriganD[Ser#-DoB]v67 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Air Force. Bomber Command Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 01:38:46 audio recording Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending revision of OH transcription Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Description An account of the resource Bertie Salvage joined the RAF as an apprentice in 1939 and, initially, began his technical training at RAF Cranwell before training was transferred to RAF Halton and also shortened because of the start of the Second World War. Bertie was present when Lord Trenchard addressed the ground staff at the station. Bertie was sent to South Africa to work on aircraft there for the Empire Training Scheme. He was then posted to Japan in the post war years. He progressed in his career with post war aircraft including the V bombers and then on to missiles systems such as Skybolt and Blue Steel. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1939 1940 1941 1943 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Great Britain South Africa Japan England--Buckinghamshire England--Lincolnshire England--Norfolk England--Southend-on-Sea Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Julie Williams Maureen Clarke Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource This Interview was recorded by Aviation Heritage Lincolnshire. 218 Squadron ground personnel military living conditions RAF Cranwell RAF Halton RAF Marham training https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/283/44897/MJonesTJ184141-220105-06.2.pdf 4a73f32108b1e9abb849a992c0ff670b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jones, Thomas John Tom Jones T Jones Description An account of the resource 62 items. An oral history interview with Peter William Arthur Jones (b. 1954) about his father Thomas John Jones DFC (b. 1921, 1640434 and 184141 Royal Air Force), his log book, photographs, correspondence, service documents, aircraft recognition manuals, medals and a memoir. He flew operations as a flight engineer on 622 Squadron Stirling and 7 Squadron on Lancaster. The collection also contains an <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2566">Album</a> of 129 types of aircraft. The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Peter Jones and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-12-04 2017-12-07 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Jones, PW Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource National Markings Mid & Far East Description An account of the resource Pages of recognition handbook of British aircraft tabbed national markings Mid & Far East including Egypt, Iraq, Persia (Iran), China (Service and Civil), Japan and Japan (Manchukuo). Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Egypt Iraq Iran China Japan North Africa Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Five printed pages with text and diagrams Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MJonesTJ184141-220105-06 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Air Publication 1480 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2294/41605/NKellettR191219-010001.jpg 07e19a6cf1084db4b1e954f9867acf92 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2294/41605/NKellettR191219-010002.jpg 932d2e11368b3d8a844ddef10f3e52e7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kellett, Richard Kellett, R Description An account of the resource 31 items. The collection concerns Air Commodore Richard Kellett (Royal Air Force) and contains correspondence, photographs and prisoner of war diaries. In 1938 he flew a Wellesley from Egypt to Australia and later flew operations as a pilot and the commanding officer of 149 Squadron. He was captured near Tobruk in 1942 and was Senior British Officer at Stalag Luft 3 at the time of the Wooden Horse escape. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Rachel Kellett and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-12-19 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Kellett, R Access Rights Information about who can access the resource or an indication of its security status. Access Rights may include information regarding access or restrictions based on privacy, security, or other policies. Publication granted Transcribed document A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document THE TIMES SATURDAY JANUARY 20 1990 OBITUARIES AIR COMMODORE RICHARD KELLETT Breaking a long distance flying record [photograph] Air Commodore Richard Kellett, CBE, DFC, AFC, who has died at the age of 84, was a distinguished airman, who made his mark both before and during the last war. He has his niche in the history of aviation for the record-breaking non-stop flight he made in 1938, piloting a Vickers Wellesley bomber from Ismailia in Egypt to Darwin in Australia. This distance of 7,158 miles was covered between November 5 and November 7, 1938, and involved the aircraft in just over 48 hours flying time. In the following year, flying the Vickers Wellington which succeeded the Wellesley, Kellett took part in some of the early bombing raids of the war which were directed against German shipping. Kellet’s career was full of incident. The son of a senior naval surgeon he nevertheless opted for the RAF, the novel mechanical aspects of flying having an appeal for him. Qualifying as a pilot, he took part in the campaign against Iraqi rebels in the late 1920s and was fortunate not to have terminated his career when his DH9A was brought down in desert terrain by ground fire. With menacing rebels all around him Kellett nevertheless had the presence of mind to hump the tail of his stricken aircraft round, to give his gunner a field of fire. Thus the pair kept the rebels at bay until his flight commander was able to put down nearby and rescue them. In 1936 Kellett was seconded to the Imperial Japanese Army to advise on aero-engineering matters. This unusual assignment, among what were to be deadly foes within five years, earned him the Order of the Sacred Treasure of Japan. Two years later came the remarkable Egypt to Australia flight. As leader of the RAF’s Long Range Development Unit Kellett piloted one of the two Wellesley bombers which made the flight from Ismailia to Darwin. This exploit won him the Air Force Cross and the Brittania Trophy of the Royal Aero Club. When war broke out Kellett was flying Wellingtons with No. 149 Squadron, and was involved in some of Bomber Command’s early attempts to penetrate the German air defences, valiant, doomed sorties records of which now make such tragic reading. The squadron flew some of the very first raids of the war on September 4, 1939. Interdicted from bombing land targets (indeed even vessels at quaysides) through a desire not to harm the civil population the RAF set itself the task of attacking shipping in the hotly defended anchorages of the Heligoland Bight. Foul weather and fierce anti-aircraft fire set the tone for the future. The loss of seven out of 29 aircraft on this first day were a grim portent of things to come. Under the vigorous promptings of Churchill, the First Lord of the Admiralty, the War Cabinet became anxious for more aggressive action from the bombers, and Kellett, now in command of 149 Squadron was involved in a three-squadron “reconnaissance in force” over Wilhelmshaven and the Schillig Roads on December 18, 1939. The Germans were ready. East of Heligoland the Luftwaffe’s fighters pounced and the bombers were harried all the way to their targets, where their miseries were compounded by the AA fire of the naval defences. From previous attacks the Germans had learned that the Wellington was helpless against a beam-on attack directed from above, as none of its gun turrets could train in that arc. Twelve of the 22 raiders were lost on that day and the early illusions about the Wellington’s invulnerability were forever shattered. Kellett, who was awarded the DFC in 1940, was on operations until 1942, when he was shot down over Tobruk and taken prisoner. He spent the rest of the war in captivity, and was in Stalag Luft III at the time of the “Wooden Horse” escape. He was invalided out of the RAF in 1946. Thereafter he worked in Rhodesia for several years and then returned to the Northern Hemisphere, sailing in the Mediterranean with his second wife Kitty. She died two years ago. [page break] AIR CDRE RICHARD KELLETT [italics] Air Vice-Marshal G.P. Chamberlain writes: [/italics] Congratulations on the obituary (January 20) on the above. I knew him well as we entered Cranwell as Flight Cadets in September 1923 and graduated with Wings as Pilot Officers in July 1925. May I offer one correction to the obituary? When Richard Kellett was shot down in 1937 for his first time he had been detailed to fly with no one in the rear seat of his DH9A; his role was “rescue aircraft” – he was expected to pick up any crew shot down. Ironically RK was the one shot down by gunfire from ground-based Iraqi “rebels”. RK’s Flight Commander, Fergus Barratt, landed on the desert to pick up RK. The Iraqis discovered they could approach Barratt’s DH9A from its nose without being fired at. Barratt’s air gunner held them off while RK hoisted its tail around. Barrett re-started his DH9A and took off with his air gunner and RK in the back seat. In due course Barratt received a DSO for this effort. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Air Commodore Richard Kellet's Obituary Description An account of the resource An obituary published in the Times with a second cutting with a correction from an air vice-marshal. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990-01-20 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Egypt Australia Northern Territory--Darwin Germany Iraq Japan Germany Germany--Helgoland Germany--Wilhelmshaven Libya--Tobruk North Africa Egypt--Ismailia (Province) Libya Northern Territory Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Air Force. Bomber Command Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Two newspaper cuttings Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NKellettR191219-010001, NKellettR191219-010002 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1938 1939-09-04 1939-12-18 1942 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Steven Westwood 149 Squadron aircrew anti-aircraft fire bombing Churchill, Winston (1874-1965) Distinguished Flying Cross pilot prisoner of war Stalag Luft 3 Wellington https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/636/40440/NRoyallGL220420-02.pdf f10bb27573b899d34c6fadaaaf7baec5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Royall, George G Royall Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Royall, G Description An account of the resource 46 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer George Royall (1801494 Royal Air Force) his flying log book, photographs, correspondence, course notes, examinations, newspapers and parts of magazines. He served as a bomb aimer on 166 Squadron. The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by George Royall and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-07-20 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource The Stars and Stripes newspaper, 25 July 1945 Description An account of the resource Eight page, Italy edition of the newspaper containing articles from various operational theatres and from home. Page 1 headline is: 'Bombs Rain On Japan From 1,600 U.S. Planes' Page 2 first article is titled: 'Nuremberg Likely For Trial Of Nazis' Page 3 first article is titled: 'ODT Chief Blames Army For rail Jam' Page 4 contains letters from readers. Page 5 first article is titled: Unit Citations Hail Battle Heroism in 91st And 85th Divs' Page 6 contains photos of an Allied sports meeting. Page 7 contains baseball news from America. Page 8 continues several cover stories from page 1. The paper also includes a weather forecast for Italy, a guide to forthcoming entertainment in Naples and on American forces radio stations, as well as several cartoons and comic strips. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-07-25 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1945 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Belgium Burma China Egypt France Germany Great Britain Guam Italy Japan Philippines Singapore Spain United States North Africa Germany--Nuremberg Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Civilian United States Army Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Photograph Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Printed newspaper Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NRoyallGL220420-02 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Information and Educational Section, MTOUSA bombing entertainment sport https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/636/40439/NRoyallGL220420-01.2.pdf f25738040db8a7ff4c27e5ba93f4a7ba Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Royall, George G Royall Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Royall, G Description An account of the resource 46 items. An oral history interview with Warrant Officer George Royall (1801494 Royal Air Force) his flying log book, photographs, correspondence, course notes, examinations, newspapers and parts of magazines. He served as a bomb aimer on 166 Squadron. The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by George Royall and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-07-20 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Union Jack newspaper 25 July 1945 Description An account of the resource Four page Western Italy edition of the newspaper containing articles from various operational theatres around the world and from Britain. Page 1 headline is: 'I SAW GENERAL SHOOT AT PRISONERS'. Page 2 is given over to the forthcoming General Election in Britain. Page 3 main articles is titled: 'Secret Nazi documents reveal how Hitler did a gigantic bluff'. Page 4 main article is titled ' NAZI SHRINE MAY HOUSE WAR TRIAL'. The page also lists the day's entertainment in several Italian locations and on British Forces radio as well as some sports news. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-07-25 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1945 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Australia Belgium Burma Egypt France Germany Great Britain Ireland Italy Japan Russia (Federation) Russia (Federation)--Moscow United States North Africa Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Civilian United States Army Air Force British Army Royal Navy Wehrmacht Royal Air Force Royal Australian Air Force Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Printed newspaper Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NRoyallGL220420-01 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Photograph Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource British Army Newspaper Unit bombing entertainment Holocaust prisoner of war sport https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2230/40200/SCheshireGL72021v20028-0001.mp3 54901302e66dbed51d85ed998ea3b53e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cheshire, Leonard. Audio recordings Description An account of the resource Twenty-seven items. Audio recordings of talks and sermons given by Leonard Cheshire on the morality of force, his service history and his and his wife's organisations to various organisations. Includes one series of after dinner speeches featuring Sir Arthur Harris. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document Q: There is a tremendous amount of talk about crisis management and all that sort of thing. I wondered if I could ask a few questions arising from that. One is whether you think that given the nature of the human being whether crisis management would in fact ever be perfect enough to avoid the need to go to war and secondly whether you consider there are any circumstances in which a nuclear war would be morally right. LC: If your first question is about crisis management or the human being’s ability to cope with a crisis objectively — is that the question? I would say that it depends very much upon the situation. If you know that you are going to get really hit if you make the wrong decision I would suggest that you tend to be much more realistic and objective. If you take cases where say Britain has made decisions in the past about a particular thing where it could be right or it could be wrong but there are no immediate vast consequences upon the nation you could easily be carried away by emotion. If you know that if you take the wrong decision and then that means a nuclear war on your head I would suggest that man is then pretty responsible. But the one blessing to me is that nuclear war is so terrible that everybody, no matter what he is after can see that it has got to be avoided if humanly possible. I can’t see that anybody would really gain from a nuclear war in the absence of our sudden pre-emptive strikes that just succeeded without retaliation. If you’ll allow me to qualify it by saying I’m completely out of this field so, you know I don’t know the military implications. The much bigger question you asked was whether there is ever a situation in which it’s justified. I would say there could be a situation in which it is justified depending upon what a given nation or group of nations is intending to do to the rest of the world and that I would say that it would have to be very very extreme. And also I don’t have the information as to what a nuclear war would really do in terms of casualties. I mean all of you know that but I don’t so I can only answer that question with some hesitation. But if its relevant I would like to say that the, what I would like to call the passivist argument that you, you cannot take human life when you analyse it is really a materialistic argument because it’s really arguing that the worst thing that can happen to a man is death. There can well be injustice and oppression which is worse than the death of so many people. I can only say that if it were a question of deciding upon a nuclear war it would be a question of weighing up the consequences of the alternative courses of action and if the one was less than the other. Say you take Nagasaki. I think one can truthfully say that greater good or rather less harm was achieved by those two bombs at least in terms of human life than by withholding them and carrying on a conventional war. I suppose it is conceivable that you can reach a comparable situation with not just two bombs but a whole nuclear census. Q: Similar to that argument that they can’t actually know in advance what you are, or what the alternative is and for instance Vietnam has killed the, virtually the whole of the young age group in North Vietnam between seventeen and thirty two. Something like that. It is a colossal amount. [unclear] something like [unclear] and you can argue that had the United States known in ‘62 or ‘61 what Vietnam was going to lead to that a nuclear weapon on Hanoi would have been the correct answer. But you can’t foretell how the future is going to unroll. You can’t foretell the alternative. LC: But one nuclear bomb on Hanoi wouldn’t have ended the war would it because it would have brought in, inevitably it would have brought in NATO powers. If you, if you raise the conflict to that level I would call nuclear war a major power level only. If you use a major power weapon in what is intended to be a limited war you immediately escalate it to a major power level and I would have said that one of the consequences you’d have to take into account in that course of action was the bringing in of the, of Russia. Q: Well, it is possible to do it. LC: I mean clearly as human beings we can only do our best to estimate the consequences but I do feel that even if it is justified to use force we are limited in the manner in which we use force. I mean, to argue that if I torture this man I will get information out of him that will enable me to save the lives of five hundred of my own country to me is unjustified. I feel that we are, although we have a right to use force under certain circumstances we are limited in the manner in which we use it and that we may not resort to torture and I don’t think one could justifiably argue that torture is permissible. Q: Could I follow that one up by asking then how you would [unclear] if at the use of the interrogation technique in Northern Ireland. You express the need for justice and fairness in the application of [unclear] and we can all agree we have our own views. LC: Yeah quite. Q: [unclear] Now, on the interrogation technique in Northern Ireland there are two views are there not? That they are justified because of the information that it obtained and that this is greater justice for the people of Northern Ireland or greater service. On the other hand they could argue these are not the same as internment. Surely the difficulty confronting any one is not the morality or not the basic need for justice and fairness but the grey area. Where, where do you draw the line? Surely this is the fundamental difficulty and Northern Ireland is a particularly difficult case. LC: Yes. I have got to agree absolutely and I tended to make it clear if I didn’t but whereas I would say the principal is fairly clear the interpretation of it in a given instance is extremely difficult and calls for some very clear thinking and very good intelligence. If you ask me the question of interrogation methods firstly I’m not in my mind absolutely certain about the facts. But if we assume for the moment that there has been what would normally be considered excessive force used in interrogation I can see that relative to the repressing the terrorists to use a general term one could say it was justified. But one also has to take into account the psychological effect that it has upon the people and if the result of that is to make us appear in their minds to be brutal, to be unjust then I think on expediency grounds alone it’s questionable because it seems to me that nothing can be solved in Northern Ireland except by the establishment of good community relations between the Army and people, the police and the people and the different sections of the people. And therefore if a particular military course of action is really seriously militating against that in the long term as well as the short term I question whether it was answered. Q: Sorry, may I follow that? LC: Yes, of course. Q: Because what you are really saying is whether it is politically effective [unclear] not whether it is just and surely I mean this is the problem. I mean — LC: But the two to me are synonymous unless you [pause] but they should be synonymous and I am trying to say that what we do must be just but the force that we use must be related to the, to the aggression. In Northern Ireland it seems to me you have a minority group using the situation to apply their own forceful guerilla activities. By and large the people as a whole don’t subscribe to that method. But if in repressing those guerilla activities we make ourselves out to be persecuting them we appear to them to be unjust and harsh and determined to establish a system that they don’t think is quite fair then justice apart we are not achieving our objective. You would surely agree that you must take into account not just the military implications of that investigation but the effect upon the people. If it is going to turn the people against the Army, against the authorities, against Britain, against Stormont you’ve escalated it. Q: Well, can I talk on the same subject? As you say here as far as [unclear] is concerned I don’t think there is any doubt about the effect on the wider [unclear] and the rather advanced intellectual press is rather worrying but when the Times tried to do a poll about it they could only rake up four percent who considered that the better is the less use of force in interrogation, the majority thought that there ought to be more. I think the effect on the people of course I agree with you if it is having an effect on the people of Northern Ireland they would be [unclear] but up to a point [unclear] because of the way in which it has been presented. All the materials to show why it was necessary to introduce internment and why it was justified to use the interrogation technique rather than sitting down over a cup of tea and hoping the chap would talk. The evidence about intimidation of witnesses and so forth has never been published [unclear] sufficiently then I think where the damages I would say were not inferred. LC: Yes. I am limited because I really and truthfully do not know the facts. I do not know if excessive force, you know and brutality has been used. I just don’t. But I have to make, I have to make an assumption that for the purposes of the questions that excessive brutality has been used. If we allow that for the moment the effect on the British public doesn’t seem to me to be quite so relevant because the British public doesn’t understand the historical situation, doesn’t know that there ever was oppression by us in the past in Ireland. Merely sees its own soldiers and its own family with whom it probably has the highest regard being subjected to this terrible situation and therefore this is the context that it sees. The minority in Ireland sees it in a totally different point of view and as I understand it they saw the British soldiers come, they welcomed us when we came there but sadly it appears that some elements over there have succeeded in turning the scales so that now we appear to be against them. To me this is a terrible tragedy. Q: I agree on two [facets] I think they, as you say slightly exceeded the challenge. People who [unclear] of course are the IRA provisionals — LC: Yes. Q: By using the guerilla technique straight out of [unclear] they deliberately try to provoke the [unclear] majority. LC: Yes. Q: Government and the security forces to react up to a point being made to feel I think the answer to that deliberate attempt by the use of violence to create a reaction in which there is a backlash or a reaction then it is incumbent upon the government in control to use propaganda better to counteract it and that is what I think is vague. LC: I think I’d agree with you. However, I can only state the view that the, that the decision as to whether or not it is just and right must depend upon the effect that it is having upon the total situation. And if there is some element lacking, you’re suggesting propaganda well then this is where the fault lies. Q: The theme of your talk seems to be a soldier was morally justified in taking life providing he was fighting for a just cause. Now, regrettably this doesn’t even come to the problem of the provision of soldiers who is likely to be fighting for a cause [unclear] What is your view of a soldier in a Vietnam situation? What is he to do if the cause for which he is fighting he believes to be unjust? Should he soldier on and [unclear]. [unclear] Now, this to me seems to me to be the moral [unclear] could you give us your opinion on [unclear] LC: Yes. You are quite right and I know that I didn’t touch on that subject. Largely because I saw that time was running and I suspected this would come up in the questions and it is a subject to which I have, you know, given some thought. I recognise that if one enters the armed forces one has a duty to the discipline and loyalty to which one takes an oath and that if you are going to go into an action and then opt out of it in the middle of the action because you don’t think that the general cause which you’re fighting is just you completely undermine the discipline of the unit in which you are fighting. Having got to that point I would say that you, you have a duty to go on fighting subject only to the just use of force, not using excessive force or not giving way to, you know, anger and reprisals and so on. But as a citizen each one of us has a duty to come to a decision in our own minds on basic principles and we have a duty to try in so far as we can to influence government thinking it seems to me. Now, if we’re going to, if you are a soldier and you are called upon to take part in a military action which you believe is unjust I would say that the, that it has to be a very high level or a very advanced degree of injustice before you could properly opt out. But when you joined the armed forces you presumably had confidence in your country within reasonable limits to pursue a just policy. You were definitely committing yourself to the implementation of your country’s policies it seems to me. If having done so you then come to the conclusion that a particular action, shall we say Vietnam is unjust at any rate as regards your own country presumably you have a right to go to your authorities and say, ‘I’m very sorry but in conscience I can’t go along with this. I would like to be released.’ I would assume that you have the right to do that provided you are not doing it in the middle of an action in Vietnam itself because if you do that you are then provoking a very difficult situation for your, for whoever is your immediate superior and also as I say you are undermining the discipline of the, of the unit. But over and above that you do have this duty and right to make your impact upon the country’s thinking. Of course, I realise that the minute you join the armed forces you are precluded or at least I believe you are from participating in politics. So I feel that if you’ve joined voluntarily you’ve put yourself in rather a difficult position. If you are conscripted it seems to be somewhat different. But have you got your own views? Q: Well, I just [pause] well, my own view is quite simple. I believe that the soldier’s duty is to do as he is told and that we can’t have individuals in [unclear] deciding whether a particular act is right or wrong. And after all whose [unclear] is it? We have [Christians] on both sides presumably praying to the one almighty that ultimately their just cause is decided [unclear] but I’d like to ask your opinion. You mentioned. LC: Yeah. Q: The degree of force that is unjust. A sort of [unclear] LC: Yes. Q: [unclear] LC: No, I didn’t — Is it, is it in order for him to be told then? I mean we can’t moralise about it. I mean we are dealing with a difficult subject. Is it in order for an infantry soldier to stick a bit of steel into someone’s gut [unclear]? Is that ok? [unclear] LC: No, excuse me. I did not say. I did not bring up the question of interrogation as being unjust. I didn’t raise that point. I think that I made the point that living in a concrete world we can only take the best of whatever courses lie open to us and that will often mean doing something which appears to be pretty brutal. For instance, there was an aircraft carrier that went down in the Mediterranean in the war and the captain had the alternative of closing the watertight doors and sealing off the fate of all those the other side of it but keeping the ship afloat long enough to get most of the others off or not closing those doors and letting everybody go down. He closed the doors. Now, taken in itself that could be as you said sticking a piece of steel in a man’s guts. Pretty brutal. But under the circumstances it was the best he could do and I personally would defend it and against the man whom I’ve often met who said you never have the right to take an innocent life no matter what is at stake. I will argue this. So when you say has a soldier the right to kill another man you put it symbolically whether it’s a piece of steel or a bullet doesn’t make all that much difference. If you’re fighting you have got to do it. But suppose to go back to the question of concentration camps which were purely retaliation upon people who had been captured or taken for one reason or another with the purpose of intimidating and finally exterminating them you wouldn’t think that was justified would you? Would you? Q: [unclear] the circumstances. LC: Under any circumstances. Would you? Q: I would think [unclear] where it could be justified [unclear]. That would be my view. And on the subject [unclear] LC: Yes. Q: I can appreciate the view of a [passive] who doesn’t believe in taking a life. but I can’t appreciate the view of somebody [unclear] the moral [unclear] of the situation. I mean war is a horrible thing as we can see. You know, when war is alright. It takes a long time to come to [unclear] and I can’t imagine a situation when an individual conscience how you could ever conduct a war with these individuals [unclear] on the rights and wrongs [unclear] LC: But I didn’t — Q: And the cause, the overall cause [unclear] LC: Well, I’m sorry but you can. Suppose we, suppose I move on to something that I am more familiar with. Bombing. Now, Bomber Command set out to destroy or hope to destroy the German industrial, war industrial machine. They could do that one of two ways. You could either [block bomb] whole cities or you could try and be more precise and damage just the factories. You obviously have that choice. That is a choice and each could be equally militarily effective. So you do have a choice. I know there are certain other circumstances which you don’t but I never said that it was left to each individual to decide what to do. In fact, when answering one question I specifically, yours, I specifically said that once you are committed you’ve got to go along with it. But nevertheless there is a degree up the hierarchy of command that takes these decisions. Now, take Nagasaki. You could have dropped that bomb on the most heavily populated city of Japan or you could have dropped it out to sea couldn’t you? That was a free choice. In one you took no life at all and in the other you took forty thousand or whatever it was. That was a free choice. So there is a degree of choice and if you say you can believe in one extreme or the other. Most things in life, the just and true part lies somewhere between those two extremes. I absolutely agree that the interpretation into the given situation is exceedingly difficult. You are in the heat of battle. You’re under great provocation. You may be without sleep. It is a very very difficult thing to do and I’m not for one minute saying that having started a war you’ve got to sort of play it with soft gloves. I didn’t in my own case and I don’t, I mean that doesn’t make sense at all. I agree with you. But I’m talking more about the decision as to whether a country goes to war and what terms of reference are given to its commanders in chief. Surely you’ll agree that there is a choice there. We must allow for human weakness. I mean, we are frail. We are prompted by all sorts of things. We do act under provocation. Nobody denies that. No one country however just its cause has been totally just in the way in which it has fought its wars except for a short period. Q: Speaking [as an officer] have you not indicated that there is indeed a very fundamental problem there in that [unclear] with that Germany so there are two options. One was to shore up Germany’s [unclear] and the other to destroy the German people’s will to resist. In fact, those options were used and used totally [unclear] and an option the equation of the war that will always be [unclear] LC: Yes. Q: This debate has been dealing on the one uncertainty in the equation and that is the question of justice. What is justice? And I think it is really a variable. It is a variable and will always be interpreted by different people in different ways. LC: Yes. Q: If you put a variable into a mathematical equation based on [unclear] you will get a different answer depending on the variable. I mean there have been wars that have been fought through the ages which were [unclear] just wars in the light of the people who determined the structure. The Inquisition in Spain was done by just men who believed in the cause that they were using in those circumstances. So this notion of justice is central to the whole theme we are tripping over all the time. LC: No. I’m sorry. I don’t hold that we’re tripping over it. For one thing we are not mathematical units. We are human beings. So I don’t think you can bring quite the analogy of a mathematical equation. I know that people will interpret justice differently. I know that even the best man will make a mistake and I’ve said that but what I’m saying is that we have got to do our utmost to see that the decisions we take and the vein in which we carry them out are just. As human beings we can’t do more than that. But the point is that I think we, that so long as we know that this is our objective and so long as we use our full mental and spiritual and moral resources to, to see that our decisions are just that’s the best we can do. I mean, I know that there have been good men who have made complete mistakes. Who have pursued what they thought was just which in fact wasn’t. I know that. And so it would be presumably until the end of time. But after all the more we make up our minds that this is what we need to do and the more we realise that each one of us as an individual has a duty to try and influence our own country towards that end the better hope we have. I mean you couldn’t surely suggest any other criteria for it. You are merely saying the criteria is right but the implementation is difficult. So, I don’t accept the difficulty as an argument that the basic principle is false. Q: [unclear] come back to respond to that. What would a serving military man under particular circumstances would have to consider whether his actions [unclear] for instance a bomber pilot engaged on a mass raid on Berlin. Should he have considered whether this was a just act or not? I mean there is a large body of opinion now that with hindsight who have said it was a wholly immoral and unjustified action. LC: I don’t. Q: Is that right? Justice varies. It varies with time. It varies with people [unclear] it varies with hindsight. It varies with a whole lot of things. LC: Well, I don’t hold the justice varies. I hold that our view and interpretation and understanding of it varies. If you come to the question of the bombing of Berlin Speer had said that if there had been four more Hamburgs Germany would have given up the war. They would have had to. So that what I think went wrong with the bombing of Germany was that we never had a consistent policy. There were so many pressures to these directions we started on one course which could have been successful if logically pursued then shifted to another. I don’t think that an individual bomber pilot under those circumstances when you think that twenty thousand lives were being, were being methodically liquidated every day of the war which was what was happening could have opted out. But let me take another situation. You see, you see a fighter pilot, an enemy fighter pilot coming down by parachute. You shot him down. You might sort of feel so angry that you feel, ‘Right I’ll machine gun him,’ which probably happened on both sides. It certainly did happen. Now, in that instance the man has an option and he can be right and he could be wrong. So that is at least one area in which the individual has a responsibility because he is undertaking an individual action. The CO of a small platoon might come across an enemy group which he now has in his hands and instead of capturing them he may just decide just out of spite to machine gun them. I would hold that was wrong. He had an option there. There are others in which I felt that I had made a response but I suppose I hadn’t where we did not have an option. Where we can only pursue what appears to be the best of two courses. But I would say that there can come a point of injustice where something is so manifestly unjust that we do have a duty to go against the system. And after all if we take Hitler there were Germans who saw the price for this and risked everything to fight the system and paid for it with their lives and we would hold them to be just. They were just. And I also have vivid recollections of a German telling me, in the middle ‘30s, I mean he told me immediately after the war, the middle ‘30s the Gestapo would come to the house of a friend of yours and take him away and you knew that you should do something about it in those early days but you didn’t and the moment you didn’t you were less of a man. You’d lost your self-respect and because you hadn’t done something in that instant you never could in the next. So step by step you were caught in it. You got to the point where you just ran along with everybody. So I do feel that there are certain points in which you do have an option and should do something even though it appears to be against your society. Q: [unclear] views the motive must be good. LC: Ahum. Q: [unclear] Defining what is good. LC: Defining. Q: [unclear] LC: Yes. Q: I’m not talking about just or unjust. But seen from one side only just and seen by [unclear] How would you find out who was right, who was wrong. It was easy to find out when finished the war and won the war to say who was right and who was wrong [unclear] During your talk you were talking about the [unclear] between the rich and poor nations and [unclear] This is a field where injustice is coming up and every day you can see it. [unclear] assuming one can understand the poor countries don’t see any [corroboration] beyond threatening their situation. That they must resort to violence. Is this a good cause for the use of force in this case good because the differences have not been resolved by people who have to resort to violence or is it not good? LC: I just have to recall now your first question. What was your first question? Briefly. Just give me one — Q: [unclear] LC: Ah yes. Well, you’re only saying what we all, it seems to me you are only saying what we’ve all really been thinking. That it is almost impossible for a human being to be totally right in its assessment of a given situation and to be totally just. That I’ve got to agree. And in all conflicts or practically all conflicts there is a bit of justice on both sides. I mean in most of the civil wars and fights that there has been since the war one can see both sides point of view. It’s a question of which is right and which is more right and so on. I’m saying that the essential thing is that when we on our particular side do anything we are really out for the total good of the people as a whole. The community or mankind as a whole. That we are not out merely to promote our own particular goal. There is a distinction. I mean, we [pause] sorry. What did you want to say — Q: [unclear] Yes. Come across two different points of view. From [unclear] we would say we would like to fight Communism because it’s not good. But the communists would say the whole world must be liberated from Capitalism. My cause is good. [unclear] LC: I know. But I’m trying to say that we’ve got, we’ve got to be certain in our own minds that we really believe that our cause is good. That we are not merely promoting our own section of society or our own particular country and so on and after all people do respect sincerity. You may disagree with a man but if you see that if you really feel that he is sincere, if you really believe he is not trying to promote his own personal aims from good you would have a respect for him. And if you’ll permit me to be now specific about something. The Nigerian Civil War [pause] Now, at the end of that war and I’m quite certain I’m right in saying this both sides welcomed each other almost as brothers. They ended with great respect for each other. Whatever they may have been in the past I have a feeling that was forgotten and there was a great relief you know. Contradict me if I’m wrong. There was a great relief that it was finished and out of it emerged great good and there can be no question in that that particular country is going to play a major and profound role in the development of the whole continent. There were vast differences of opinion. I hold the view that we here might have operated in a different way and taken some of the heat out of the situation. That is a personal view. But both those sides were very sincere. Having been personally into what was for a short time called Biafra I discovered that they there considered that the Nigerian Army had treated them pretty lightly. In fact, they, they felt that there were several moments when the Nigerian Army could easily have advanced right through and overcome them but didn’t and they seemed to think, you know why? Well, they didn’t want to hit us too hard. But although there was a great deal of bitterness, although there was a tremendous loss of life through starvation I know, nevertheless I honestly think that at the end of it all those fighters recognised the sincerity in the other and there was a happy outcome. You will never get two groups of people to [pause] I mean they each believe in their own cause. There is a conflict in the world. There is a basic conflict in us all in the world. There must be, and I don’t believe it’s realistic to suggest that there won’t. But sometimes a nation goes to war out of fright. An individual goes for another out of spite. He’s annoyed because somebody has got the better of him and one could point to times in history and even recent history when that has happened. I’m saying that the real test is whether we, to the best of our ability are being sincerely aiming at the greater good of mankind and that we really believe in the justice of our cause. You mention Communism but Communism is an ideology and you don’t fight ideologies with weapons. You fight them with ideas. You fight them with dedication. And I would say that Communism could not conceivably have spread as it did if there weren’t so much injustice in the world and that we in the West have not paid sufficient regard to that injustice. And if you say are the poorer nations justified in the final resort in resorting to force for their survival I’d almost be inclined to say that if it goes far enough they are because to me the first injustice or the first, sorry the first violence was injustice. We talk about the first stage of force of as being the counteraction of the State against the group of people trying to assert their rights. But in truth that meant injustice, that initial injustice was the first violence and we should look upon it as that. And I do hold that this, the fact that there is so much disparity between the poorer countries through no fault of their own and the richer countries and the fact that we want to protect our interests and to be honest we do in very subtle ways but very powerful ways constitutes an injustice and this is why violence tends to spread so much. Violence sometimes is the outcome of malice but very often it’s the outcome of injustice and somebody takes advantage of that injustice to mobilise otherwise good people into taking violent action. So, if we want to be practical I’m saying the more we can go out in our own lives and do something about this the more we are eradicating some of the root causes of violence. Q: [unclear] some of the religions where both sides believe passionately in the right of their [unclear] LC: Well, I admire the passionate belief in the rightness of their cause. I just do not believe that in matters of religion you have a right to resort to force. I would say that you have a right to resort to force when what you are dealing with is [false] If somebody comes in this room with a sub-machine gun there is, you don’t talk him out of it, I suppose you try for a half a second but you’ve got to repress him. I mean the justification for force is that force is the only way of dealing with it. But if you’ve gone to the limit to use other means of persuasion that’s alright if you leap to force at the first instance. But when it comes to religious beliefs, I mean to me I know that they believed so passionately in the Middle Ages and so on that that’s what they did but nobody would justify that today and it doesn’t even work. You know, I mean you don’t compel. This has got to be a free [pause] God wants our free acceptance not our compelled acceptance. Q: Might I ask you another question on a related moral issue which is not strictly in the defence issue but the Home Secretary’s view, can you envisage any situation however extreme and I could give a rather false scenario [unclear] particularly in this country a whole proportion of the population clamour for bringing back the death penalty. Can you morally see any justification for the death penalty for individual criminals? LC: I find it difficult to see a complete moral argument against the State’s right to impose the death penalty. I haven’t applied my line that I suppose I should have done but I mean I wouldn’t feel totally offended if the state considered that it had a duty under certain circumstances to bring in the death penalty. The death penalty or life imprisonment. If it’s really going to affect the situation and be a real deterrent I personally don’t feel a total repulsion to that idea. Q: [unclear] I’m not sure if you haven’t answered my question. I’m not even sure that it is my question [unclear] very much at all. [laughter] Q: Started with morality and then you started talking about governments. LC: Yes. Q: I think you pointed out the definition of morality but they are not necessarily the same. [unclear] certain circumstances that it is morally right to steal rather than starve. It still remains [unclear] to steal and the law would still hunt you for stealing even if it was an alternative to starvation. That would be a mitigating circumstance and the two are not the same. Do you feel now talking about morality of this report, do you believe morality is a factor which man [unclear] making decisions on the use of force even covertly. Surely most decisions on the use of force or the motivation for it is self-interest. I don’t think and I admit to your opinion that a natural motivation is indeed morality. I think the religious imposition of morality are superficial to the natural instinct of man. Self-interest. And even in your final [unclear] where your present your reflections [unclear] between the poor nations and the rich nations by implication whoever produces a moral [unclear] self-interest. It is in our own interests to keep the poor nations, make them richer but not a moral [unclear] In what sense do you think that morality is in fact a subject at all when considering the use of force? LC: Yes. I agree with you. I didn’t say that it was morally, at least I don’t think I said that it was morally right to steal. I said that my church would hold that the man had a right to steal under those circumstances because the alternative was the death or extreme depriv, deprivis, deprivation, I can’t pronounce it, of his family and that therefore given that situation that was the lesser of two evils. He will probably have to bear the consequences you are right but nevertheless he would have saved his family. I think most people who believe in natural justice would agree that. There is a difference between natural justice and what I call divine justice. But natural justice is what we feel impelled to do in our natures but we have to try and discipline and educate ourselves to live according to a higher moral law which is very difficult to do. This is an area we’re not discussing. I’m afraid I agree that nations in fact have decided their policy very largely on questions of self-interest. In fact, a senior civil servant the other day said to me after I’ll be honest if Britain or any country takes a decision its main duty is to protect its own citizens and its property and so on. This is probably the governing factor. This is one of the tragedies. I mean to me a nation becomes great by virtue of its moral integrity and its willingness to forego its own self-interests for the interests of the greater and more international good towards perhaps which we are advancing. When you say I reduce the arguments for expediency in relation to the rich and the poor it’s true but I did that because I usually find that people when I’m talking to them will reject the moral argument or the charitable argument. You know, they will say that charity begins at home. Therefore one throws it back on to the lowest denominator which is self-interest. I’m trying to say that even out of grounds of expediency do it because you’ll suffer. But that isn’t to say what I would really like to see done is on grounds of morality and if I may digress this question of charity begins at home which you hear so often means of course that it begins at home but doesn’t end at home and that it is at home that we learn charity. We can give all our money away and do what we like. If we’re not charitable at home than probably our motive for giving are still not charitable. It is a misused quotation. But I do say that what is wrong with the world is that we are too concerned with our own vested interests whether business or political or national. This is my theme and this is where the soldier is caught in a moral dilemma because he has to fight in a situation which is really just protecting his own country’s interests. Q: There really is no distinction between the individual and the group. The individual is entitled and self-sacrifice — LC: Yes. Q: And are the individuals within a group [unclear] LC: Sorry. If we’re talking about an armed, an armed , part of the armed forces when we join up we know that we are going out to do what we’re told. We know that when it comes to battle we’ve got to be prepared to sacrifice everything in order to carry out our orders. If I was told to hold a position in order that a greater body of men behind can escape that’s our duty and in that case the group as I see it acts, operates as an individual. We, we join the Force knowing that this is what’s going to happen. So I would say that there are circumstances in which the individual has the right or the duty to sacrifice his group if it is in the greater good of those for whom he is fighting. Q: Yes, but if you were — LC: Sorry? Q: If you were drawing moral [unclear] nations which argue because they acted in self-interest and the decisions that were taken if they were taken properly is taken by individuals. The question is whether those individuals — LC: Oh. Q: Are entitled to sacrifice the interests of the people who put them where they are in the same way that they would be able to sacrifice their own interests as an individual apart from [unclear] LC: Well, I don’t divorce the individual or the government. You’re talking about the government. Elected by the people to carry out policies to which they subscribe. So I don’t distinguish. You can’t isolate the government from the people. They should be one and the same. Obviously you don’t ask the government totally to factorise the interests of its country but there is a degree of sacrifice and I’m not applying this to governments. I’m applying this to the whole country. It’s not the government that’s unwilling to do this and the people that be more willing. It’s that each of us in our own little way is determined to protect our own interests. I mean I have heard of very good men. I’ve heard this quite often of businessmen who have got very high principles and I very highly regard. When it comes to this question of the economic viability of the so-called developing nations taking the line that I would not subscribe to enabling a developing nation that holds raw materials to be able to manufacture to the same degree that we can because he’d then have an advantage over us. Well, now can one defend that point of view which is pure self-interest? And yet these are good people. So I’m saying that in different levels in society we are determined to protect our own interests and impose restrictions on other people and — Q: [unclear] an MP representing a cotton town in Lancashire has a moral duty to throw his whole constituency out of work in order to enable people in other parts of the world where they are poorer to become richer. LC: You’re quoting rather an extreme instance. I do not believe that is — Q: I’m sorry [unclear] LC: Well, I’m sorry. I think that we have to have much greater regard for the problems and the needs of the poorer nations and the developing countries and in fact we would be much more prosperous. We’d have much more of a sense of achievement as a nation which we’ve not got. If I were to ask you what we as Britain have as our national objective what are we really? What are we achieving as a nation apart from our internal prosperity? You’d have a [pause] Could you answer me? Q: Well, I’m concerned that the morality of [unclear] it’s easy to sacrifice [unclear] as an MP [unclear] to the poor. It’s not ok. It seems to me the morality, if it is the moral duty to give away the goods of the people who he is there to represent in the same way. And the people [unclear] it’s not. LC: But he’s not giving away. I mean there’s the process of making a developing nation economically viable is a very lengthy process. I mean it’s a question but there’s no reason why we couldn’t start all sorts of joint schemes together. It would operate in my opinion to the benefit of both of us. I don’t subscribe to the belief that if we were to help shall we say India to become a fully industrialised country that we would be out of jobs. The way we are going at the moment we are the part of the world will end up with all the money and how are we going to spend it because the other half of the world won’t be able to buy anything. To me it’s a self-defeating policy. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Leonard Cheshire answering questions Description An account of the resource Asked about human ability to cope with crisis objectively and whether there were any circumstances in which a nuclear war was morally justified, Cheshire provides his answers. Explains his rationale for atomic bombing of Japan. Questioned on use of force in Vietnam and bombing of Hanoi and what was alternative. Goes on to discuss nuclear war. States that even if use of force justified, we are limited in the manner in which we use it. Goes on with question and discussion of use of interrogation techniques and use of force in Northern Ireland. Continues to discuss the use of force with audience. Discusses what to do if an individual thinks a cause is unjust. Carries on with further discussions on just war and mistakes and other matters. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource G L Cheshire Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio recording 00:56:29 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SCheshireGL72021v20028-0001 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. College of Defence Studies Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending revision of OH transcription Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Julie Williams bombing of Hiroshima (6 August 1945) bombing of Nagasaki (9 August 1945) Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992) perception of bombing war https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2230/40183/SCheshireGL72021v20024-0001.1.mp3 910968830ac02e779be1eb4fa3facfc0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cheshire, Leonard. Audio recordings Description An account of the resource Twenty-seven items. Audio recordings of talks and sermons given by Leonard Cheshire on the morality of force, his service history and his and his wife's organisations to various organisations. Includes one series of after dinner speeches featuring Sir Arthur Harris. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document Leonard Cheshire Resonate Project File Title: Group Captain Cheshire (GLC) talking to RAF Chaplains about the 'Morality of Force'. Recorded Preservation copy Duration: 53:21 Transcription Date: 29/07/20 Archive Number: AV-S:507 Start of Transcription 00:00: Group Captain Leonard Cheshire: This is February 15th: A talk to the RAF Chaplains on the ‘Morality of Force’. 00:09: GLC: The first thing I’d like to do is try and define the terms of reference that I feel I have been given. The title of the talk – as I understand it – is ‘Morality of Force’. By force we obviously are referring to force used by a legitimate government – or on behalf of a legitimate government - and not just by an individual. And moreover, it is force of a nature which will inevitably lead to loss of life or [unclear 00:50- 00:51] very serious injury and destruction to property. We’re not referring to the force required to arrest a man and put him in jail. 01:09: But in considering force I feel we need to look at the circumstances leading up to the decision to use force, the time during which force is being used, and the consequences of the action. I feel they are all interrelated. The definition of morality is a good deal more difficult. Morality - as I see it - is rather a loose term which can be used in a number of different senses. But I suppose strictly defined, it is ways of conduct based upon a distinction between right and wrong. Conduct based upon a distinction between what is right and what is wrong. But we immediately get into the difficulty of who decides what is right and wrong, and do these principles apply all over the world in all different cultures? Do they change with changing times as some people will argue, or are they universal and immutable? And so, I think that brings us to the point that what we’re talking about is not just conduct but a law – a moral law. If we don’t use law as the basis on which we’re going to try and examine the subject then I don’t think we have got anything concrete to start from. 03:18: And the question – as it seems to me – is: Is there such thing as a moral law analogous to the physical law – which of course keeps creation in harmony, gives it stability, and gives it a purpose, makes it a purposeful entity. Is there a moral law that applies to mankind as a whole analogous to the physical law? And I think it’s helpful at the beginning to look for a moment at the notion of law. What is law? I understand law to be an ordinance of reason made for the common good and promulgated by the person or persons responsible for the particular society. And the first thing is that it is an ordinance of reason and that it has as its objective the good of society and the realisation of the goal of that particular society. And I think most people are familiar with the concept of law, particularly in the armed forces. And I think that all of us as human beings appreciate that at whatever level, whether it’s a small community - but I mean an organised community – or a nation, there has to be a system of law. And that the better the law – the better the society in question is able to function – the more harmonious it becomes and the more it is likely to achieve its particular objective. We understand that law carries a sanction, that if it didn’t carry a sanction it wouldn’t be – given human nature – of a great deal of use. We understand that if we break the law then we introduce an element of disorder into society and I suppose most people would recognise that if we habitually break the law – become habitual breakers of the law – then we are in danger of becoming personally disorientated. Certainly, we become anti-social. 06:02: Moving to the different types of law I suppose it’s fair to say that there are 3 types of law: the positive law, the natural law, and the divine or eternal law. The positive law – if that’s the correct term – is the law that society makes, the set of rules, a system of right and wrong that society makes for its particular circumstances. It’s a man-made, arbitrary set of rules for outward conduct. But it doesn’t really have much relevance to our problem except in so far as there may be rules drawn up relating to the conduct of war and given international approval. I think that some conventions have been drawn up which regulate certain aspects of law – of the waging of war - and that clearly is apposite to our problem. The natural law I suppose one could define as a system of right or justice applicable to all mankind and deriving from the nature of man rather than – as in the case of the positive law – from society. And throughout its long history which I think must have begun with the Greeks - I don’t suppose it began with the Jews because they always had their divine law… throughout its long history it’s gone through many variations - and I suppose at the present moment it’s perhaps lost a certain amount of favour – but nevertheless, I think we can say that man has always thought about it and certainly at the present day many men look towards it as a line of guidance between all the conflicting ideologies and political systems and so on. But again, it would be very difficult to define what is the natural law. I know Lord Denning will sometimes, in making a judgement, refer to the natural law rather than to the law of this country and would probably be right. But unfortunately, we’re faced with the fact that mankind as a whole has not agreed upon what the natural law is. I suppose the best one can say if one were to look for a common denominator, is that we should act in accordance with a dignity of a human being – that we should do nothing that offends or degrades his dignity. Or others [unclear 09:48- 09:50] might use the golden rule: ‘do to others what you would have done to yourself’. But, that’s very general and even if everybody agreed upon it as a general principle, the application would be a matter of great difference of opinion and controversy. Everybody for instance would agree, I think, that it’s wrong and inadmissible to murder, but not everybody would agree in a concrete situation what was murder. A very obvious example of that is abortion, and I think one could draw other examples too. 10:54: Furthermore, I suppose we have to say that even laws that we agree about in the natural order, are relative – some are absolute, some are relative. I think it’s true that the Catholic church would claim that although it is wrong to steal, if your family is starving and there’s no other way of getting food for them, a father has a right to steal even if he then has to take the consequences. So, the natural law doesn’t really give us, as I see it, much of a basis on which we can discuss sensibly what the duty of a man is, when faced with the use of force. The divine law, which I personally think is the only basis on which we can sensibly discuss the question - even though we have to acknowledge that those we are talking to may not all agree that it exists – does give us, I think, a very much clearer picture of where we stand. If talking to a non-Catholic audience I think one has to define to a certain extent what the divine law is, and to state that it presupposes the existence of a creator who has given the creation a purpose and who holds its government in His hands. Specifically, coming to the Christian concept of the divine law, I also think that we have to – although our task is not to present the claim for the authenticity of the Catholic church - we have at least to give the man we’re talking to a short summary of what Christianity claims that it is. At any rate, in those respects that relate to the morality of using forceful means, it seems to me that we ought to state: number 1 that you can’t evaluate Christianity, or even any one of its particular laws, by referring to an isolated text in scripture – that you have to look not only at the whole of scripture, but at the whole of Christianity, of the church, including its teaching magisterium. I say this because people will use one text to build a whole case on it, and I think that needs to be clarified in advance. 14:24: Then, to become more positive I think we ought to state that Christianity is essentially an historical religion, meaning that God has intervened at certain specific moments in history. In particular, that he…we come to an area in which perhaps we may, though it’s not really pertinent to this subject, the creation of the first man. I would personally prefer to say that at a moment in man’s history after the time that man had evolved into a being capable of reflective thought, God had revealed Himself to him, entered into a personal relationship with him, given him a definite instruction as His representative on earth, and destined him for an eternal role in heaven after death. That after this had happened man fell, was tempted to think that he could achieve this end by himself without the help of God, and that the story of Christianity is very largely the story of the struggle between evil - which entered the world in consequence of the fall - and good, and the steps that god took after that to make good the effects of the fall. I also feel that we could stress the particular role that God has given man on this earth. And I personally would define that as man the unifier, that man was instructed to master the earth. And as I personally hold, his will for us is that we should unify and integrate the entire physical creation up to the point where it becomes virtually an entity of its own, the mystical body of Christ. It seems to me that throughout scripture we are being told that it’s not just we who have become – or are destined to become – eternalised, but the entire creation of which we form a part is to be eternalised, or, that part of it which God wants is to become eternalised with us. That we carry through with us not just our souls, but our works. That here on earth we are actually constructing eternity with God’s grace. 18:00: So, what I’m getting at is that we are by nature, and by destiny, essentially unifiers. And this thought has got to dominate everything that we say about making war and the use of force. So, when we come to the question of the Christian law – which of course I suppose we should state to the non-Catholic, is part of God’s gradual revelation to man as one of the principle means by which we are to attain our destiny and our purpose on earth, culminating in the person of our Lord – when we come to Christian law about the use of force, I think first we have to look at the position taken up by pacifism, because I think most of us meet pacifists of one kind or another. I know I have done ever since I was at college before the war. Pacifism clearly is, again, a very loose term. You meet all sorts of forms of it. I think strictly speaking, by pacifism, we should mean the sum total of all those movements that are aimed at the total abolition of war and believe that this is possible in the foreseeable historical future. And that includes the non-violent movements like Gandhi, and the non-violence used in the United States. Although, they are not strictly pacifist because they are confined to smaller minority groups that are trying to make their own point of view – or make their own case – accepted. The chief person that we have to consider is the individual pacifist who claims – usually appealing to Christianity – that the use of force under any circumstances is wrong. Now, although I say from the beginning that I don’t accept that, I have discovered that it’s very important when talking to a pacifist to make certain that the discussion doesn’t become polarised, so that on the one side you have the pacifist talking about peace and avoiding war and on the other hand you have the other man talking as if he’s a militarist – as if he thinks that every… that the solution to every problem is a forceful and military one. And I have sadly taken part in a number of conversations where precisely this has happened, and where the audience has inevitably felt that the pacifist was right. Because this man appeared to be talking about peace and the other man appears to be talking about nothing but war. So, I think we have at the outset to acknowledge first of all, the sincerity of the pacifist, and secondly, that his initial premise is right. In other words, that our principle concern should be peace and that we should state very categorically that we are completely at one with him on this aspect. 22:21: Where I differ is that the pacifist is usually talking about his views in a vacuum, in a hypothetical situation that doesn’t in fact exist. Whereas, we have to deal with actual historical situations and they are very different. He will argue that an individual faced with a threat to his life will do more good by not retaliating and sacrificing his life. I don’t think one could argue against that. In many cases, at least, I think we’d have to admit that to be willing to sacrifice your life rather than take the life of the man opposite you, may be a nobler and greater thing to do than to fight for your own rights. But what we’re really discussing is our duty as members of a community. And the situation where you have a community and not just an individual, is very much more complex. One has to weigh in the balance the rights of the man going to use force – ought we to avoid taking his life? – and the rights of the others whom he is intending to destroy. And I just cannot see that it is right to stand back and allow another man to take the lives of the members of one’s own community and not try to stop him. I just cannot see it. I cannot see that it has a Christian basis. I cannot see that it has a basis in any form of natural justice or right. Neither can I see that its supported by Christianity. If there are some texts where we appear to be told that we should never use force, there are a number of others where force is not excluded. You will know these better than me, but St John the Baptist didn’t tell the soldiers that they should stop being soldiers and he was telling others very emphatically what they had to do. I cannot believe that there is a case for supporting absolute pacifism. In other words, the view that under no circumstances whatsoever may you use force. I don’t believe that that case is supported by Catholic doctrine, or by the teaching revealed to the church. 25:49: Furthermore, there are certain practical objections. In the first place, no movement of pacifism – there aren’t many organised pacifist movements – but, none of them have ever shown the slightest sign of success, historically speaking. Certain non-violent movements have within very limited scope, but mostly under circumstances where the rules of the game are accepted by both sides. It’d be totally naïve to suggest that pacifism would deflect a man like Hitler. In fact, it would do the opposite and I think one can point to the evidence of history as showing that it was precisely the fact that we did not announce our intention of standing up to him – when he was in a position of weakness – that gave him his strength. I’d like to come back to that a bit more specifically later. I think that the pacifists don’t pay sufficient attention to the reality of human nature. When a group of people are determined on an end which in itself is not a good one - and intend to obtain it by whatever means they can - you are not going to divert them by passive resistance and by trying to show a good example. The Chinese had a proverb to illustrate their form of pacifism – though I think that was a negative form of pacifism – saying, as I remember it: ‘The soft water, if its flowing, will gradually wear away the hard stone.’ [laughs] It’ll take a very long time to do that. Also, I don’t think they appreciate the reality of converting a 1 to 1 situation, 1 man against another, to a communal situation, where – as I say – everything is so much more complex. 28:24: So, coming to our duty as I see it as Christians, I think that at first we must be quite clear in our minds and in what we say, that our overall aim is the peaceful solution of any argument or dispute. That we at all times recognise our fundamental goal of unifying the human family. And to come to the concrete we have, I think, 3 or 4 tests that we can put. First, I’m now talking about the actual decision to use force. I realise that that’s normally not an individual’s responsibility, it’s the government’s responsibility. But nonetheless, we form part of our country and therefore we must have some influence in the decisions that are taken, and we should be able to state where we stand and what we think. The first test is, have we done everything within our power to settle the dispute, other than by the use of force? Have we really and honestly done that? If we have and we still can’t find a solution, is force really the right answer to whatever the threat is that we’re being opposed by? It may not be. It may be the solution in the short-term, but it’s possible that it might not be in the long-term. And that is why I say that we have to consider the aftermath of force as well as the events leading up to it and its actual use. In the same way that we are taught by the moral theologians that we are not to do anything that takes us away from our final end, so I think that applies to this situation. Is it in the long run going to work towards the harmony and unity of the human race, and goodwill between the two opposing factions? Thirdly, is this the right moment to use it? By postponing the moment you give more chance of settling the dispute by peaceful means, but equally you might place yourself in a weaker position and perhaps deny yourself the opportunity of succeeding with force. If one’s answered all of those questions in the affirmative, then I think we can say that, if having taken all the possible consequences of the alternative courses of action available to us into consideration, and really thought them out to the best of our ability as objectively and as informedly as we can, and the use of force appears to be the better of the two solutions – the one that will lead either to the most good or the least harm – then we are right in using it. 32:48: I think we have to state that force in itself is a bad thing, but that given the state of human nature – given the state of the world – it may be the only thing to do…The only thing, the lesser of two evils. Therefore, if it is the better thing for us to do, I then think that we have to do it properly. That we have to be sure that we are professional and that we use adequate force, if it’s available to us, to meet the threat. Adequate force but not excessive force. But it must be adequate. If it’s not adequate then we’re only going to create a hostility and suffering, and increase the violence of people’s emotions and not solve the problem. To clarify what I’m trying to say I’d like to take 1 or 2 examples, and the first one – although I know I mustn’t get too absorbed in it – is the last World War, because this is a situation which I’ve experienced in which the facts are fairly clear and from which I think we can form certain conclusions. Now, cutting it down to its simplest there was a situation when Hitler declared quite openly that he intended to overrun and colonise Eastern Europe and Russia. And he made no bones about this being his intention. He further went on to say that the perfect human race was the Nordic race, and that others that deviated too far from that ideal should be eliminated. And therefore, he declared quite categorically that certain groups of the human race were going to be eliminated. And that wasn’t only the Jews, it included Gypsies – he was going to do away with all Gypsies – and as you probably know he drafted that famous order saying that the entire Polish nation was to be liquidated, starting with the intellectuals. But he was going to spare the working classes until they’d done the work that was required of them, and then he would liquidate them. Now, if Hitler was in a position to put those objectives… to attain those objectives, he was clearly a totally evil man who had to be stopped. But early in his career he held none of the military cards. He was militarily weak. I know that that position is confused because the argument usually runs that Hitler had so much and we had so little, and therefore we couldn’t stand up to him. But that isn’t an honest argument because you have to take the totality of the situation. In other words, all those who were opposing Hitler. 36:47: And the fact of the matter was, the key to the whole European situation was Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia lay at the heart of Europe and the Czech army was just as strong in 1938, at the time of Munich, as Hitler’s army. And Hitler’s generals told him that he would have to commit his entire army to the fight against Czechoslovakia to have a hope of overrunning them. That left him with 87 French divisions on his Western flank, an unknown quantity of Poland on the Eastern flank, and our 6 divisions over here. In other words, it was not militarily a viable situation. But Hitler said to his generals ‘You don’t have to worry, they won’t fight’. His generals in fact had prepared to overthrow him the moment we stood up and said no, we’re not going to allow you to go into Czechoslovakia. And when they heard that we had given in and allowed him to take Czechoslovakia they just wouldn’t believe it. But that decision of ours was the making of Hitler. From that moment on he was a public hero. Everybody felt in Germany that he could perform wonders, although we still have to remember that there was a German resistance – and a very brave one, even if a minority. And one of the things that contributed to that decision by Britain was the fact that the RAF had made an enormous error in calculating the effects of aerial bombardment. They had miscalculated I think by a factor of 20, or 30, or anyway, they grossly overestimated the effect of aerial bombardment. And that had given Chamberlain and the others a feeling that, at all costs, war must be avoided. They were obsessed by this thought of what would happen to British cities if war broke out. So, the result of our not facing up to those realities was that we gave Hitler the power to launch that Second World War. If we had been realistic, if we had – what I consider – done our duty, Hitler could never have done it. He would have been overthrown, and although no doubt there would have been some form of fighting it wouldn’t have been on anything like the scale of a World War in which, you probably know, 55 million people died – counting all of those that participated. 39:56: There’s another factor that comes into the outbreak of that war, and that is the terms of the Versailles Treaty. Some of those terms undoubtedly were not just, we took a certain amount of revenge on the Germans, and I hold that contributed towards Hitler’s rise to power. In the first place, he could speak for that disaffected German population that felt it was suffering under an injustice. And I think we must also hold that, by and large, human beings will not commit themselves totally to something which is absolutely wrong- to something which is absolutely evil. There must be some apparent good in it for them to give themselves wholly to it. And I think that it was this element that Hitler was able to play on and make the Germans think that they were giving themselves to something that was just. So, another contention I have is that when you have won a war or you’ve completed your action, whatever it might be, you have to be absolutely certain that in your peace terms you’re not only just – but I would say – merciful. Because after all, what is our objective? Our objective is to attain harmony and goodwill, good understanding between nations. If we move to Northern Ireland, we have a completely different situation. In the last World War, it was quite clear, one side fighting another. It was quite clear that Hitler had to be stopped. The only thing that you could call in question, is the methods that you used. You couldn’t call in question the fact that you had to fight the war in a total way. It was a total war in which everybody was involved. I don’t see that you can justly isolate the civilians from the soldier in that Second World War. Civilians were making munitions, they were doing something that was contributing, however indirectly, to the war. And they, except for the minority resistance movement, were totally committed to Hitler’s objectives, just as we were totally committed to our objectives. And therefore, I don’t really understand the distinction that some people make between the innocent civilians on the ground and the soldiers fighting a war. A total war is a completely different thing in nature from wars that were fought in the past, largely between mercenary or professional armies which usually had an understanding that they fought each other but kept clear of certain groups of the population, like the old and the sick, and so on. 44:03: In Northern Ireland - though I hesitate to speak here in any detail, because I haven’t direct experience of it – the army is faced with a completely different situation, as I understand it. And I hope that afterwards, where I’m wrong you will put me right. In Northern Ireland – as I see it, if I’m not oversimplifying – the army went in between 2 different factions of the community in Northern Ireland, hoping to keep the men of violence at bay until a political settlement could be reached. Now, when they are faced with what - for the purposes of this discussion, I’ll use – a terrorist, they’ve got to try and deal with him in such a way that they don’t antagonise the population or the community to which he belongs. If they act, as a community feels, unjustly, then the effect is going to be to harden that community, to drive it further into a corner and to make settlement of the situation even more difficult. If their task is to take out the men of violence, so that you are just left with two sides who you hope will then talk round the table and settle things. And if in the course of dealing with a terrorist the army appear to be attacking the community as a whole, then it seems to me the two sides will become even more polarised than they were before. And so, I would say that the duty of a solider in that situation is a much more difficult one than was ours in the Second World War. And although, at least I suppose, the decision to send the army in was correct - I’ve no means of telling - I’ve listened to another argument from a senior policeman who said that what should have happened – he said it at the time that the army was sent in – was that we should have relied upon good intelligence and men on the spot who knew exactly who they were dealing with, and could differentiate between an IRA, or UDA, and an ordinary member of the public. So, I imagine this was a debateable question, but granted the fact that the government in good faith decided to send the army in, I can see that the soldiers have an absolute duty – even if it increases the risk to themselves – of never using more force than is absolutely necessary, and of using it in a way which will not antagonise the local community. You may say that’s impossible, and it may be that it is impossible, but I think that we have to acknowledge that although we are – or at least I once was – members of the armed forces, that there have been occasions when the army hasn’t been completely in the right. And the repercussions are very severe. In the last World War, there probably were things that we did which should not have been done. I think probably Dresden is one of them. But that was an error, not of bad faith, but purely an error of information. The Russians said that 2 German armoured divisions were reforming in the city, and that if they were allowed to reform and come back into the battle the odds would be tipped against Russia – and ‘Would we please bomb Dresden?’. There was also the growing threat of the ME262 which threatened to change the course of the air war, and these 2 factors together persuaded bomber command that Dresden ought to be attacked, when in fact there were no soldiers in it. That was a mistake of misinformation rather than of ill will. 49:29: I’d like to pose the question – I don’t think I know the answer – but, broadly speaking I think I’ve tended to say that area bombing of a city is a dubiously moral activity. Whereas, bombing in order to destroy munitions was a necessary activity given the fact that the British army – the Allied armies – were totally incapable of taking on the German army up until later in the war. And, therefore, Germany had to be stopped and had to be attacked wherever it was possible to do so. But, Speer, the German head of munitions, and whatever he was, has stated categorically after the attack on Hamburg - which as you know burnt the whole city [unclear 50:34-35]. He evidently went to Hitler, and he said this several times both in writing and on television, that had there been 3 more Hamburg’s Germany would have had to give in. So, the question is, in view of all the lives that were in fact lost before Germany gave in, would it have been right to do another 4 Hamburg’s or would it be wrong? In the case of the atom bomb, I feel that I can be specific and I am prepared to defend this particular outlook… I’m prepared to defend it until the end. The situation in 1940 August ’45 was that Japan was totally committed to fighting until the last man. That is to say that Japanese military command was totally committed to fighting the war to the last man. The only known way, in the absence of some totally unforeseen event which you can’t bargain for when waging a war… The only foreseeable way of ending the war was the invasion of the mainland of Japan, and in order to do that the Americans were planning to land 3 million men into Kyushu, the southern island of Japan – I am right, is it the Southern Island? It doesn’t matter - in November 1945, and another 2 million men into Honshu, the main island, in March ’46. They estimated another years fighting, with all the bitterness and the frustration – everything that a years fighting involves – and they estimated 5 million casualties, sorry, 3 million casualties: 2 million Japanese and 1 million Allied. Against that, was the hope that the atom bomb might bring it all to a quick end. The difficulty was, for once again I find that whenever you discuss this with people who take the opposite view – particularly the young – they always discuss it in a vacuum, totally divorced from… 53:23: Speech ends 53:23: End of recording End of Transcription Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Leonard Cheshire - a talk to the RAF chaplains on the morality of force Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource G L Cheshire Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Air Force. Bomber Command Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio recording 00:53:16 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SCheshireGL72021v20024-0001, SCheshireGL72021v20024-0001-Transcript Description An account of the resource Defines force and morality. Looks at the circumstance leading to use of force. Discusses natural, man-made and divine laws and their impact om use of force. Goes on to discuss place of pacifism in the argument. Loos at question of duty as Christians. Talks of the use of adequate force and uses WW2 historical analogy to illustrate his points, including the effect of the Versailles Treaty on the outbreak of that war. Discusses the use of military force in the modern situation in Northern Ireland. Goes on to discuss the bombing of Germany and the atomic bombing of Japan. Submitted with caption 'Talk given by Leonard Cheshire to RAF Chaplains on the 'Morality of Force'. Date given as 15th February (no year)'. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany Japan bombing bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945) bombing of Hamburg (24-31 July 1943) Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992) faith ground personnel Hitler, Adolf (1889-1945) Me 262 padre Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cheshire, Leonard. Audio recordings Description An account of the resource Twenty-seven items. Audio recordings of talks and sermons given by Leonard Cheshire on the morality of force, his service history and his and his wife's organisations to various organisations. Includes one series of after dinner speeches featuring Sir Arthur Harris. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document Leonard Cheshire Resonate Project File Title: 11.12.83 Nuclear deterrent Good Morning Sunday on BBC2 presented by Paul McDowell. GLC speaks on the nuclear deterrent and his experience of being an observer at Nagasaki. Duration: 42:35 mins Transcription Date: 23/04/20 Archive Number: AV-S_206 Side 1 Start of Transcription 00:01 Paul McDowell: [Speech fades in]… the air all in the ferries, except the Stranraer Larne route which is reduced by two round trips each day. Engineering works in many places on the British Rail network make it desirable to check times and services before leaving home. That’s the travel news this Sunday morning at 18 minutes past 8. 00:20 [Background music starts to play] ‘Sing Children Sing’, Lesley Duncan. We'll be talking to Group Captain Leonard Cheshire after this, the whole question of the nuclear debate. 00:30 [Musical interlude - Sing Children Sing, Lesley Duncan] to 03:14 03:14 PM: Group Captain Cheshire, you were an observer when they dropped the A-bomb in 1945 in Nagasaki, what did that actually involve? 03:22 Group Captain Leonard Cheshire: Well there were two observers, the chief observer was Lord Pinney, who had been part of the team building the bomb. I think that my role was more to look at it from a tactical point of view as a pilot, and to report on what the implications were as regards dropping it and getting away from the target and... 03:48 PM: - So where were you then when the bomb was dropped? 03:50 G.C: We were in the second plane - there were 3 planes all together, one carrying the bomb. There was actually a muddle that day, the Nagasaki was not the primary target, diverted from the primary target because of bad weather. So we were in fact 50 miles away when the bomb detonated. But even so, in bright sunlight, there was a huge flash inside our cockpit. 04:18 PM: Given your part in the war, in the Second World War, at that stage were you quite ready to see a nuclear bomb being used? 04:27 G.C: Well I think we have to look back as to what was actually happening and what had happened at that time, August 1945. The war had been fought for 6 years. Already, over 50 million people had been killed and that means something like 180 thousand every week every year of those 6 years of war, and out of those at least 80 percent were civilians not military. The Japanese military command was completely dedicated to fighting to the last man, although they realised they couldn't… win. There were probably peace feelers by the politicians but the military high command were going to ignore these. My role at that time was part of the planning team for the frontal assault, the invasion of Japan. That meant 5 million men across the Pacific into Japan, it was estimated it would take another year of fighting and they thought another 3 million deaths. By that time the whole business of war was so terrible that the dominant thought in my mind was, 'What do we do to stop a third World War?', and I think that once I got over the terrible shock of being told what an atom bomb was, and knowing that I was going to sit in the sky and actually watch one go over, once I got over - if one can - that shock, my hope was, 'Would it bring the war to a sudden end? Would it stop this awful business of a frontal assault on Japan?'. 06:23 PM: So with that hope then in your heart in the cockpit in that August day, was there no shock no sense of revulsion when you saw that cloud of smoke? 06:31 G.C: There was a terrible shock... I think the chief impact on me was a feeling of power, I’d never seen anything that had that degree of power. It was so sort of symmetrical, so silent, so it was just... it overwhelmed you with its power, that was my main impression. Of course I had to struggle with myself to keep my mind on what I was supposed to do, that required quite a mental effort. And through it all came two thoughts, 'What's happening to the people on the ground?' and 'Is this going to save the lives of those higher than many who are going to have to die otherwise?'. 07:19 PM: How did you focus you thoughts on those people on the ground? Were you aware of the horrible suffering that still goes on because of it? 07:28 G.C: Well obviously I wasn't, overhead, because what could you see the whole city was shrouded in black cloud... but remember that… burned into my mind, like as with everybody else, was a thought of the simply appalling suffering that had already taken place. The whole war was just a period of intense suffering. I think the one concrete thought that came out of my mind was, we must stop it happening again. I felt that the atom bomb... symbolised the horror of World War, and drew our attention to the need to stop it ever happening again. 08:17 [Musical interlude - So This is Christmas, John Lennon and Yoko Ono] to 11:27 11:26 PM: Happy Christmas, ‘War is Over’ John Lennon and Yoko Ono. Wondering if you have been reading John Lennon's life story for the tenth time in one of the popular daily papers this week. And no matter what you say about his search for happiness or how he went about it, no doubt about it, that only enforces that song only enforces what a marvellous musician he really was. ‘War is over’, or is it? This morning we are talking to Group Captain Leonard Cheshire who was there when they dropped the atom bomb in Nagasaki. 11:57 Group Captain, after 40 years, despite all the suffering, do you still believe that the dropping of that atom bomb was in fact right? 12:07 G.C: Well, as I've said, that World War cost 55 million lives, 20 million of them were civilians put to death in a terrible way in the concentration camps - the Nazi concentration camps - so surely the overriding need is to see that it doesn't happen again. And if we're looking for fault, for blame, then I would say that it lay on the nation as a whole in the 1930's but particularly on the two political parties, for not taking the political and the military steps necessary to stop Hitler. And I think that if you ask me what my conclusion is... at the time that I saw that go off, I felt convinced that nations that held that atom bomb would never be attacked by another major nation, that the bomb is just so terrible that it makes no sense it’s just unimaginable to make war against another nuclear power. But of course in the intervening years, I've realised that... war is not made by the weapon, that war and peace depend upon what's in man’s heart and it’s a question of whether we're willing to make the sacrifice to build peace, to build justice, to eradicate the - for instance the injustice of gross poverty - to do what we can to help people that are suffering under an unjust regime, whilst at the same time, keeping up our defences so that nobody is able to use force to impose their will upon another nation. 14:09 PM: Is that then the basis of your beliefs that the writing of this pamphlet 'The Nuclear Dilemma'? 14:15 G.C: The nuclear problem, the nuclear threat, presents us obviously with an enormous moral dilemma. Whichever the two roads you choose, whether it's disarmament or deterrence, you're faced with very great moral problems. Neither solution offers a solution that's morally completely acceptable. 14:44 PM: But do you approach it from a moral standpoint or from a Christian standpoint? 14:50 G.C: I approach it from a Christian moral standpoint, obviously people have different views of morality... I'm trying to approach it from the point of view of what best accords with our Christian duty to love all our fellow men. I believe that's the only criteria that you can apply in attempting to resolve the dilemma. 15:17 PM: But if you start on the basis of loving you fellow men, is loving your fellow men building up these weapons - if you like - behind their backs just in case they should take action? 15:29 G.C: Well you'll have to answer the basic question, what do I do if I'm walking down the street and a gang of thugs attack a bunch of ladies - or anybody you like... and... are doing physical harm or perhaps - as is happening - putting them to death? What is my Christian duty? I can't stand back and do nothing about it, in my opinion. It's quite clear that evil cannot be overcome by force... but the problem is that you have to consider evil both in itself and in its consequences. One of the consequences of evil is that it is able to use force to destroy or to impose somebody else's will on a group of innocent people. So as I see it, the role of force is to limit the effects of evil - in other words to limit the harm that evil can do through the use of violence. And if you build your weapons to stop that, I don't see that that's morally wrong. 16:47 PM: So you see the nuclear arms race as one of two sides building up weapons which are deterrents, which are part of the defences, but you think will never be used? 16:58 G.C: I’m absolutely convinced that there is no likelihood whatsoever of any form of war between - if I may call it East and West, the Soviet Union and the West. In my opinion, what we’ve got to aim for is not just stopping nuclear weapons being used, we've got to stop any form of World War - that is war between major nations. Now the disarmament lobby... do not believe that the nuclear weapon deters war, well if that is so, obviously conventional weapons deter war still less. So if you remove the nuclear weapons - assuming that were possible on both sides - you're then left with high probability of conventional war, and a conventional war would be as disaster of absolutely catastrophic proportions. 17:59 PM: But surely - 18:00 G.C: - Sorry - 18:00 PM: - What you must bring into this argument Group Captain - 18:00 G.C: [Speaking at the same time] - Yes - PM: - Is the fact that we live in a fallen world and that evil does triumph and that humanity is frail and could very easily put their finger on the button. 18:11 G.C: Can we just consider that question, 'Fairly easily put its finger on the button'... the way that things are with a rough parity on both sides, each side knows that if they attempt any military attack against the other, there's a danger of it escalating to nuclear level in which case both are destroyed. Now I just do not believe that a nation will ever do something that it knows is going to destroy itself. I accept that obviously individuals are willing to give their lives for a cause that they think is greater than themselves, and they do, but what cause can you think of that would make a nation knowingly destroy itself? I just don't believe it. 19:06 PM: What about some of the smaller nations that are building up nuclear arms? I mean you're painting black and white, east and west, but what happens if our smaller nation who wants to attack? 19:15 G.C: Well I think you've put your finger on the big problem, I think that our attention is in the wrong place. I just don't believe there's the slightest likelihood of war between East and West - particularly with the Russians being as cautious as they are - and instead of concentrating on that and giving that all our time and energy, we should be concentrating on the second generation nuclear nations. Cuz suppose a Middle Eastern fanatical country thought that the solution to the Israeli problem was the nuclear bomb - and you can't stop nuclear knowledge it's quite possible for them to get it - where would we be then? I think that the world community should get itself together and get itself organised to find some way of stopping the effects of proliferation. I think it should put your finger on it. 20:12 PM: But you see, how can the world power the people get together because the nuclear arms race has created so much fear and distrust... and it’s put up so many barriers. 20:24 G.C: Well, to be honest, we've not had any form of military confrontation between the Soviet Union and the West in nearly 40 years despite one of the deepest ideological differences the world's known. So obviously it creates fear, but I think that fear is healthy because it makes us realise that no act of war between major powers is morally acceptable, that's my point. I don't believe that man will so change that he will refrain from using weapons against a weaker adverstry… out of good will. I think the only way that you're going to stop him is by letting him know that its self-destructive to do it, this is what I think at this stage in history. 21:20 PM: Well I'll tell you what, at this stage of the programme lets take a break and hear about programmes later on Radio 2. 21:25 [Advert, Man]: Our quiz 'Brain of Sport 1983' reaches the last of the semi-finals tonight. The programme will be coming from the Coventry and North Warwickshire cricket club where Peter Jones will be your quiz master. So join us at 7 o'clock tonight on Radio 2 and find out which of our contestants will prove his superior sporting knowledge and find a place in the final of 'Brain of Sport 1983'. 21:50 PM: 21 and half minutes to 9. Talking to Group Captain Cheshire this morning, this is Eric Clapton, ‘Promises’. 21:57 [Musical interlude - Eric Clapton, Promises] to 24:38 24:38 PM: Eric Clapton at 19 minutes to 9, and ‘Promises’. And I think I can safely promise that one of the themes that is going to dominate our news programmes today is the whole nuclear debate. The yays or nays after the programme last night, the day after the day there’s a huge peace rally round Greenham Common. 24:57 Well one man who has quite a close association for nuclear weapons and has seen the A-bomb used is our guest this morning, Group Captain Cheshire. Now Group Captain, you were saying that nuclear weapons can act as a deterrent but do you not think that they also encourage fear and mistrust between nations? 25:17 G.C: Well, would you agree the two are spectate - if you agree that the nuclear weapon acts as a policeman, it keeps peace, but of course it doesn't make peace. We've got to go out and build confidence, we've got to be generous, we've got to be willing to make sacrifices to help the poor - that's going to make a politically more stable international society - we've got to be willing to put ourselves in other people’s shoes - not always look at it from our point of view. Don't you think the two go side in side, the policeman and the peace maker? 25:55 PM: Well the peace maker is somebody essentially surely who turns the other cheek? You're talking about going out and helping and sacrificing, shall we not be doing that too with weapons? 26:06 G.C: I think - I mean I mustn't repeat my point - but I am just convinced that weapons stop you fighting. If you remove those powerful weapons I think there might well be a limited conventional war and if you once have that it will almost certainly escalate. I really think we should see the weapons as a protector against world war - not against minor wars between minor nations, but world war - and if we're never going to see another world war that’s to me an unimaginable blessing. Let’s use that in two ways… a warning to us that we should be less materialistic, that our minds should be set more on the things of God and less on the things of this world, and secondly that we identify ourselves more with the struggle of the poor and those who are living under injustice, that's my view. 27:13 PM: But it’s strange that this issue should so split Christian people. You're taking one standpoint from a Christian point of view, pro-nuclear weapons, and yet at the same time the whole nuclear debate has created such objections from people, again from a Christian standpoint who are saying we should turn the other cheek. 27:36 G.C: Well, they're not all saying that. What they're trying to say, most of them, is that we should do away with nuclear weapons and rely upon conventional weapons. I have to say that I do not accept that, I do not accept the moral justification of any world war, of any war between major nations. I think we are split because it's a dilemma and I think the dilemma is that we've now entered the nuclear age... we've gone through many ages in the evolution of man, we're in a new era of rapidly advancing technology which is going to give us new sources of power, all kinds of weapons and means of doing both good and harm. So, our challenge is to see that we put these new inventions to the good of humanity, not to the harm of humanity and I think it may be saletry that we have this threat of destruction of the developed world hanging over our heads to make us realise we have to be responsible, to make us realise we can't decide the future on our own - as I think we’re trying to do - we must put ourselves more in the hands of God. 29:12 PM: How can people unite, how can we unite the two factions to get people working together? 29:19 G.C: Well I've given that a lot of thought. I think that we ought to unite on the one thing we're agreed about and that is the need to build peace. For instance it is said that the money we spend on arms is a theft from the poor, and that if we didn't spend money on arms that it would be used for the poor. But that isn't true, if we save money on arms it would go to lower taxes, higher wages, better social services, better roads, and if you don't believe that then how is it that we spend a lot more on alcohol and tobacco in a year than we do arms but nobody says cut back on that and give it to the poor. The fact is that our hearts are not in helping the poor, the developing world, they're about bottom on our priorities and I think that's the great charge against Christianity, that we are not decisively acting against world poverty. 30:37 PM: Group Captain Cheshire, thank you very much indeed. 30:40 G.C: Oh thank you, Paul. Thank you. 30:44 [Musical interlude - Sympathy, Rare Bird] to 33:07 33:07 PM: The sound from the 60s. ‘Sympathy’, ‘Not enough love to go round’ in a group called ‘Rare Bird’. It’s a rare few days for Charles Smith at the moment who writes to us from Woods Road Ford End in Chelmsford in Essex, a busy time indeed because he writes saying it's his daughter’s birthday - his daughter Thelma on Friday the 9th of December, last Friday - then it's his dear wife Emily, it was her birthday yesterday and his other daughter Pamela it's her birthday [laughs] tomorrow, and just to top it all off its Charles' birthday himself on Boxing Day. What a time of the year must've been terrible when the kids were young, Charles. I'm sure Santa Claus' sack was nearly empty by the time it got round to the 25th of December. 33:53 Now this morning on Good Morning Sunday we've just been talking to Group Captain Cheshire who I was saying earlier has written a pamphlet called 'The Nuclear Dilemma, a Moral Study' setting out his arguments for nuclear weapons. If you want to get this booklet it's published by the Commission for International Justice and Peace. If you write to 38 to 40 Eccleston Square, London, SW1V 1PD. The Commission for International Justice and Peace, 38 to 40 Eccleston Square, London. And we want you to write to us cuz we're having a competition this week, we've got 5 voices here talking in a theme of Christmas and something they particularly don't like about Christmas, who are the 5? 34:33 Man: You could say people over commercialise Christmas and sometimes it is just a case of having holidays, and having big blow outs with puddings and getting a bit drunk and things [unclear]. 34:48 Man: I don't like the associations of Christmas with business, and particularly with the selfishness of expensive items which are advertised as being necessary for the wellbeing of those who can get on very much better without them. 35:06 Man: The only thing I've don't [laughing] like about Christmas I spose if there's snow about, so I always say [unclear] snow looks good on Christmas cards but when you've got to live in it and work in it it's lousy. 35:15 Man: I dislike the commercialism. Obviously there's just money, money, money, money and the vast majority seem to be so absorbed with money that the real meaning of it all is lost. 35:31 Man: I dislike the commercialisation, I know that's corny to say that, but I do dislike it. 35:38 PM: Now there's a challenge. Who were the 5 voices? And in the theme of a green Christmas, enter Stan Freberg. 35:44 [Musical interlude - Stan Freberg, Green Christmas] to 41:49 41:48 PM: I love it, I love it, that's Stan Freberg and Green Christmas, a song would you believe that goes back a mere 25 years. 41:54 [Musical interlude] to 42:01 42:01 PM: Thanks to the many hard working people in the team who got the programme on the air, and the man with the smile as if to say he knows what's happening next week [laughing] it's the producer, Chris Reece, who hopefully will tell me in time by half past 7 next Sunday morning when we hope you can join us. 42:16 [Background music starts to play] 42:23 And on the telly 4:15 this afternoon on BBC1, Steve Crown for ‘BBC Sports Personality of the Year’, and mushrooms for breakfast, and David Geary. 42:31 Speech ends 42:35 End of recording End of Transcription. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource BBC2, good morning Sunday interview with Group Captain Leonard Cheshire Description An account of the resource Nuclear deterrent Good Morning, Sunday on BBC2 presented by Paul McDowell. GLC speaks on the nuclear deterrent and his experience of being an observer at Nagasaki. Tape starts with radio chatter and interview with Leonard Cheshire starts at 3 minutes 14 seconds. Describes being observer for atom bomb dropped on Nagasaki and his feelings at the time. Asked if he still thought dropping the atom bomb was right. Goes on to discuss nuclear deterrence and nuclear arms race. Finally discusses question of defence spending. Submitted with caption 'Original insert says "Paul McDowell says Good Morning Sunday 11th December 1983 BBC Radio 2, Producer: Chris Rees. Sunday 11/12/83 Nuclear Deterrent". Side 1: Recording of BBC radio show where Leonard Cheshire is interviewed about his experiences of observing Nagasaki in 1945 Side 2: Introduction to the segment by Paul McDowell, talking and playing music (Leonard Cheshire is not on this side)'. This item is available only at the University of Lincoln. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource British Broadcasting Corporation Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1983-04-20 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1983-12-11 2020-04-23 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Japan--Nagasaki-shi Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio recording 00:42:31 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SCheshireGL72021v20010-0001, SCheshireGL72021v20010-0001-Transcript bombing bombing of Nagasaki (9 August 1945) Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992) perception of bombing war https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2230/40106/SCheshireGL72021v20008-0001.2.mp3 729bb7919bd704e5be52b4a7d362396d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cheshire, Leonard. Audio recordings Description An account of the resource Twenty-seven items. Audio recordings of talks and sermons given by Leonard Cheshire on the morality of force, his service history and his and his wife's organisations to various organisations. Includes one series of after dinner speeches featuring Sir Arthur Harris. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document Leonard Cheshire Resonate Project File Title: Talk on the morality of force at the RAF Staff College in December 1975 Preservation copy Duration: 53min 06sec Transcription Date: 2 March 2020 Archive Number: AV-S_013 Start of Transcription 00:00 to 00:08 Group Captain Leonard Cheshire: January 8th, Talk to RAF Staff College, Subject: Morality of force 00:10 GLC: Commandant, ladies and gentlemen. On my side I would like to say that I do count it a very great privilege to have been invited to come and talk at all at the staff college, let alone on this particular subject. The Commandant says that it has been troubling military men from the beginning of history. I'd like to assure you Commandant that it's troubling me quite a bit now [laughs from audience]. 00:43: I think I'm conscious that this is a subject that affects every one of us very deeply, whatever our position in life, and of course particularly members of the armed forces. I am also conscious that it's a subject one can't satisfactorily answer. There can be no clear cut solution offered for every situation that one may find oneself in and I know that the second half of our evening is devoted to discussion and so on my side I'd like to say that for me it’s a challenge. In the first place it's forced me to try and collect my thoughts on this subject and secondly, it's given me the opportunity, or will give me the opportunity, of hearing what you have got to say. And all that I can do is to try and outline as I see them some of the problems and perhaps some of the criteria by which I think we should try to judge what to do. 02:02: Well the subject given to me is the morality of force. Well as regards to force, for the purposes of tonight I am presuming that what we are talking about is force used by a legitimate government or on behalf of a legitimate government. Not force used by private individuals to put right a supposedly severe injustice. I am also assuming it's force of a kind that involves either, or must involve, loss of life or at least very serious maiming, not just a force of taking somebody by the arm and putting him in a police cell. And in dealing with it, I'd like to cover not only the actual use of force - the time of what one is using force - but the circumstances leading up to its use and the circumstances after it - that evolve out of it. Because as I see it all those three stages are linked and we have a duty, a separate duty, but a related duty in each of those three periods. The problem of course comes to morality. By what standards do we judge morality? And obviously people throughout the world are going to vary greatly at any rate in certain respects on the subject of morality. It would be very difficult to find a common denominator with which everybody is going to agree. 04:00: Possibly the one denominator that I think all men of goodwill would agree is that we should live and act in accordance with the dignity of a human being. That we should do nothing that offends the dignity of the human being either to another or with regards our own lives. But of course, the problem comes when one is faced with an ideal to pursue or a danger to ward off … and we know from our own experience and from looking at history that people standards vary very, very greatly when they are under that kind of pressure. But, in talking about morality for the purposes of tonight, I don't think that we should confine ourselves to just what as human beings we think is the criteria of human behaviour. I am really more concerned with the moral law and therefore I think I must start by defining what I understand law to be. I understand it to be an ordnance of reason, made for the common good and promulgated by the person or body of persons responsible for the particular society - whatever level that might be. 05:48: In other words, it's a product of reason and its purpose is the wellbeing of the community and the pursuit of its particular objectives and aims so that if the law is broken, order is disrupted, you introduce disorder into society, the society can no longer satisfactorily run and achieve its objective. And although there are many different ideas of law and many different laws in the world, I think we can say that broadly speaking they fall into two categories. What we might call the human law and what we would call the divine law or the eternal law. The first is a law which is made on the basis - for my definition at the moment - on the basis that there's nothing beyond this mortal life that we know. The other, the divine law is made on the basis that this life is the preparation for an eternal life and clearly for the second law, for the eternal law, that cannot be made by a human being because he would not know what kind of law was necessary to lead us towards the goal of eternal life. If there is such a thing as an eternal law, it can only be made and promulgated by the creator, by God. 07:42: Now in respect of the first one, human law, there is as you will know what people usually call the natural law. I suppose one could describe that as a body of principles generally accepted throughout the world as valid for all human beings. The divine law of course is the product of different or is in the custody of different religions in the world, but I think, and they do differ obviously in quite a number of respects. But in the Commandant's brief, I was asked one question - what is a Christian's duty when serving under arms in war? And so, I feel that briefly I should touch on that particular aspect as we in this country are officially a Christian country. Not that I think there is going to be all that great difference when we come to the question of violence. But one thing I do think I must state, is that you cannot judge the Christian, the true Christian attitude and instruction about behaviour merely by isolating some of the teachings of Christ as written in the Gospels. For one thing, there are many paradoxes in them, you can pick out one for instance that says our instruction is to love one another, another that says unless you hate your father and mother you can't be a disciple of mine. We have to understand them in the literary form in which they were spoken and in the specific historic setting in which they were spoken. And I don't think that we can understand the Christian attitude or judge it except by looking at Christianity as a whole. It's not my function to describe Christianity tonight but I think I must in two or three sentences try and set that position out so that when that matter is discussed, we know what it is that we are basing our judgment on. 10:26: Christianity is a historical religion. It postulates existence of a creator, a God of love who has called men essentially to love one another. But at some time in history after the emergence of man as a being capable of reflective thought - man as we know him today - God infused into man an immortal soul. Entered into a personal, intimate relationship with him and destined him for a life in eternity with God as it is said partakers of the divine nature. But man, unfortunately didn't respond to this, he fell. He thought somehow that he could achieve all this by his own, by himself. And therefore, that plan went wrong. And a principle of evil entered the world and the story of Christianity, really, is the story of that struggle or war between good and evil and the story of the steps that God has taken since that time in order to put that fall right, to set man back on the right direction and to lead him eventually to the goal for which he was destined. And as one of the means by which we were to know what to do, we were given a law, given progressively throughout history but essentially and finally by the person of Christ, of Christian law. 12:35: Tonight of course we are only concerned with that law as it relates to violence. But, if we come to look at the Christian position, I think we have to bear in mind this - that the Christian sees and believes himself and all men, whoever they are, as destined for an eternal life. He sees man as essentially the unifier that man’s role is to bring together all the diverse elements of this world until they become an integrated, harmonious entity. I personally would go so far as to say that the entire world, with all its elements, is slowly evolving closer together and higher until eventually - however improbable it may seem now - it is destined to become a corporeal being, personalised and capable of thought, of thinking as a being and that man’s supreme role is precisely unity and harmony. That is the destiny for which we are all ultimately destined. Whatever we do in the difficulties of this, the world in which we live, that destiny should be borne in mind. 14:23: We are now coming to the question of violence and those two laws - the nature law and the eternal law in relation to it - I only finally want to say that although those two laws obviously have a different end in view, they are not in contradiction. In fact, one could say that the natural law is nothing but a reflection or a participation of the eternal law in the rational being, man. So, I don't think for the purposes of what we are discussing tonight there will be a great difference. The Christian of course would know in his heart and in his conscience, what different duty he may have in a particular situation. I can only as best I can go through the general sort of situations in which we find ourselves in human affairs. 15:27: Well first, looking at violence, I think we have to take a look at one particular point of view - pacifism. Now I know that you can't generalise over pacifism and there are many different type of pacifists and so on. But all of them basically say that one should not resort to force, no matter what the provocation you should not resort to force if it's going to involve killing. The argument very often is a very noble one, a very appealing one. A lot of people subscribe to it and lot of people who don't subscribe to it, find it very difficult to answer. I have listened to a number of discussions and arguments between those who support the use of force and pacifists. I feel bound to say that usually the pacifist comes out better and the reason is, I think, and I think this is very important, that the man who is taking the opposite point of view who argues that there are moments when you have got to use force, fails to make it clear that he too would far rather see peace and therefore you get the situation where the one man is appearing to be arguing in favour of peace, and the other man is appearing to argue in favour of war. The two positions have become polarised. 17:27: Pacifism in my opinion cannot hold water. Whereas it is true if it is just a question of another man and myself, I have a right, if I wish, to let him do me in and not fight back, then it's only my life that I give. I obviously have a right to do that and many people would say and probably quite rightly that would be a nobler thing to do than to fight him. But that is not the situation that we find ourselves in in life because we are members of a community. And what would be at stake normally is not just our safety, but the safety of other people and if we have a duty as a pacifist will say towards the soul, and the person of the aggressor, we also have a duty to the victim and we have to make up our minds in that concrete situation which is the greater duty and how we should act. But I cannot hold that it is in conformity with Christian doctrine to allow an aggressor physically to attack and seriously harm another person and not intervene. 19:00: It's further argued that by remaining passive, ultimately you will convert the aggressor. But history doesn't bear that out. Normally an aggressor if he gains one victory, an easy victory, only gets an appetite for another act of aggression. It would be naïve to think shall we say somebody like Hitler would be won over by passive resistance. He wasn't. There were many Germans who tried to resist him passively to the best of their abilities. There were countries he overran before 1939 who didn't fight back. That didn't stop him. And so, it would be naïve to think that just by remaining kind and using the power of words one could convert somebody who was really bent on doing harm. 20:09 Usually I find that this argument is conducted in a vacuum. That's to say outside a concrete situation and this is where it falls down. Ideally speaking obviously war is wrong and we don't want to fight, but the argument has to be conducted in the context of actual facts. And I further find that if you meet a pacifist who waxes very strong, very sincerely and very eloquently on his theme, you then divert him onto something that he feels very strongly about, perhaps South Africa, you find that he is becoming militant because suddenly he's got an injustice that he feels deeply about. And so, the principles appear differently. Nonetheless, I know that we have to treat the pacifist view seriously and respect the sincerity of the person who holds it. But I also think that we need to know how to answer him. We need to know how to meet his arguments with other reasoned arguments because a great deal is a stake, if we make a mistake. The true duty as I see it is this, first we know and acknowledge that force ideally speaking is wrong. But we don't live in ideal situations, we live in a world where clearly there is ill-will, misunderstanding and discord and there will inevitably be situations where not to use force, assuming we use it in the right way, would be dereliction of one’s moral duty and I would say one’s Christian duty. 22:34: The tests, as far as I can set them out, are these in my opinion. As regards the decision to use force first, have we explored all the available avenues of solving the problem other than by force? - Have we genuinely done that? - Secondly, is force the right countermeasure. It is possible that it may not be. Thirdly, is the timing right? Should we use it now or should we wait later. By waiting later, one gives more time for the other person to change his mind but, you may also weight the scales against you. If having weighed up all the consequences that it is possible to foresee of the alternative courses of action, using force or not using force, and if in one’s opinion less harm will be done by using force than by not using it, then we should use it. And if we use it, then we should use it professionally and put our whole heart into its application. But we should not use more force that is absolutely necessary. We should be just in the use of it and if possible, merciful. Because after all we have to remember our objective. Our immediate objective of course is to remove the oppression or whatever it might be, the aggressor. But, the long term objective is to achieve peace, justice, freedom, harmony. In other words, all the qualities that we want for this world so that everybody, whatever his race or situation can live in freedom. And if by using force in a particular way we prejudice that long-term objective, then perhaps we have done the wrong thing. And so clearly this calls for some very clear thinking, and in order to think clearly, we have got to be absolutely certain that we are objective, that we are not carried away by some emotion. And again, if one looks at history, one can see that many decisions have been taken, wrong decisions, because somebody was biased, or in a bad mood, or he was motivated by spite or any of the human failings to which we are all subject. We have an absolute duty to think out as clearly as we can all the implications of an action. But, if we once take it, we sincerely done our best to come to the right decision in the interests of everybody, not just our own little community, then I think that we should not look back over our shoulder. We should not question because once you're committed to the use of force, at any rate if it's war, and you don't put your whole heart into it, you won't succeed. And its probable that by being efficient and quick, you will cause less suffering than being inefficient and half holding back and dragging it out. So, into this situation I put the clear obligation of the armed forces to be totally professional, totally masters of their particular job so that if they have to use it, they can use it as efficiently as possible. And I'd like, if I might, to take one or two concrete examples so that we can look at it in an historical context. 27:25 First, I'd like to take the Second World War. … Now the Second World War was a situation, I think that most people would agree, where this country and its allies had no option but to fight. Once that decision was taken, I doubt whether there was anybody in this country other than a very, very small minority who had any doubts about it. We knew. And it was the fact of knowing that cause, however unpleasant was necessary and just in those circumstances that gave this country a unity and a sense of purpose to see it through. But, if you look at the circumstances leading up to that war, one can see where we made our mistakes and how greatly costly those political mistakes were. And unfortunately, there weren't only political mistakes. To a certain extent there were military mistakes. Without going too much into the details of the middle 30s and the late 30s and having to simplify it obviously for the purposes of this evening, the truth is that Hitler started from a position of weakness, militarily he was outnumbered. His Generals said to him 'but you can't do this militarily'. His answer was never mind; they won't fight. The key to the European situation was Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia lay at the heart of Europe and Czechoslovakia with 37 Divisions that it then had in 1938 matched, man for man and gun for gun, the German army. In the short term, the Czech army could have held the German army - not of course in the long term. Hitler always said that the one thing he must never do was fight on two fronts at once. He had to get rid of Czechoslovakia to start his ambitions in the East, and therefore if we had not forced Czechoslovakia to give in, Hitler would have had to fight it. The moment he fought it, he would have declared his hand and France who had 87 Divisions or 85 Divisions I think, against Hitler's 36 or 37, and Britain with our 6, we would have had had to come in and fight. In the East was the unknown quantity of Poland. Hitler's Generals knew that he could not succeed and in fact at the moment of Munich were ready to overthrow Hitler, the moment that we stood firm and said he could not have Czechoslovakia, they couldn't believe it when they heard what we had done. 31:02: I am trying to say that had we faced up to the reality of that situation, and used a little bit of firmness and strength and taken a certain amount of risk, that World War would not have been a World War. It would have been a fight between a weaker Germany against allies that couldn't have failed to have won. And furthermore, at that time there were plenty of people in Germany itself wanting to get rid of Hitler. 31:40: The Air Force did not help unfortunately, although in a sense the RAF provided the foundation for winning the war by thinking out its air force strategy so clearly - more clearly in fact than the Luftwaffe. The Air Force had overestimated the effects of aerial bombing and the result of this was to make the politicians anxious at all costs to avoid a war. I think if we're honest, our fault was that we were too inward looking. We were too concerned with domestic problems - Europe was the other side of a channel. We didn't think in those broader terms, we were insular, and I think this is a failing that goes on through the generations, a particular party-line. We all of us as citizens of the country have a duty to make our views felt in this respect. 32:50: Another example I'd like to take is the bombing of Dresden. Looking at it in hindsight, I think I feel justified in saying that was a mistake. It was a mistake based partly on false intelligence. I know that the Russians told us that there were two German armoured divisions re-forming in Dresden. I also know that it was bombed for strategical reasons because fear that the ME262 or whatever the jet and so on. But when you look at the effect that that has had upon history, upon the criticism that that's enabled people to level at the RAF and Britain in general, and at the fact that there were no armoured troops in Dresden at the time, I think we can say it was a mistake. I'm not saying that just to show that we made a mistake, I mention it because of the consequences. We have to acknowledge that force, however just, maybe the decision to use it will always have repercussions and violence inevitably breeds violence. Therefore, force really is a last resort, necessary unfortunately, but it's the worst solution if only we can find another. 34:41: Another and final example out of that last war if I might, is the atom bomb. Today probably the atom bomb is remembered and spoken about more than anything else in the War. As you probably know, I was a member of the team that went out on those B-29s to drop the atom bomb, so I personally know the feelings of those who took part and so on. Considered against the alternative, I cannot see there was any option other than to drop the atom bomb. The only known way to make Japan give in was to invade the mainland of Japan itself and for that purpose the Americans were going to land 3 million men into the southern island, I think in December '45, and another 2 or 3 million into the main island in March 1946. An estimated year fighting, an estimated 3 million casualties - 2 million Japanese and 1 million American and allied. Against that, the two atom bombs took approximately 120,000. Measured in those terms I don't honestly see what anybody could have done other than decide to drop it and I think that if I were back in that situation again today, I would want to do the same thing. But, I must qualify that. I think that it was a mistake to have dropped the bombs on a city, or to have dropped the first bomb on a city. If the first bomb had been dropped in open country or just off the coast in the sea - where it could be seen. And a warning given, as it was given by Truman, that if Japan didn't give in there would be a rain of such bombs from such as the world had never seen I think were his words, I don't think it would have made any difference to the Japanese high command. The first bomb didn't in any case, they didn't even tell their people that an atom bomb had been dropped. But I do think that the verdict of history would have been different, because it would have least have given the Japanese an option and if they'd have rejected it, then the responsibility would clearly have been on their shoulders. I know that the two alternatives were discussed and that it was decided that unless a bomb was dropped on a city nobody would believe that it could do such damage. But I'm convinced that the allied cause was [unclear word 38:18] in the eyes of the world by, the fact that the first bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. 38:29: Coming to more up to date times, and on a more difficult subject because we haven't the hindsight of history now, Northern Ireland and Vietnam. You will appreciate that I left the service at the end of the war and therefore, I don't have any first-hand experience, I can only talk as an outsider. There is a difference in kind in these two types of war, in fact I suppose you could categorise wars, the use of force, into three. A total war, a global war like the first two World Wars, or particularly the second where the entire nation is totally involved. A limited action using conventional weapons where there is only a limited objective and anti-terrorist. In the first, in a total war our duties are different because everybody on both sides is totally implicated, I do not see that you can talk about an innocent civilian as against the man in uniform, the civilian is totally dedicated to that cause and he is spending his time making munitions or making something that the country needs. I don't see that there's all that distinction between the two. In a conventional limited war, there is of course a distinction. It's primarily a fight between two armies. In the anti-terrorist action - into which I put Northern Ireland and perhaps wrongly, Vietnam, but from one sense I mean that - we have a completely different situation. Here we have a group of people infiltrating into a country who are hostile to oneself, who are prepared to go to any lengths to achieve their particular objective. But that is not so of the country as a whole. I can quite see that there are two you can put a case both ways for armed intervention for sending in the army into Northern Ireland or rather you could at the beginning. The other argument, as I once heard put to me by a senior police officer, was that if the army was sent in, they wouldn't really have a hope of containing all the terrorists and it’s effect would only be to escalate violence. The better solution would be to send, in effect, intelligence agents as policemen in who knew their way around and would be able to deal with the situation in a different way. I have no idea which is the correct solution, I don't know the facts. I do know that once one is committed to using force, to sending the army in, one cannot retreat because to retreat would be to leave a worse situation than the one entered and so I do see that this is a very difficult and very painful decision for whoever has to take. One can also see that one has to be quite different in the way one applies force, … because if one applies force in such a way as to antagonise an otherwise potentially friendly population, all the loss of life and the courage and everything else that has gone into it will have been not productive. I think that in the world that we live in today, this really is the primary danger that we face - anti-terrorist/terrorist activities and this is a subject that I would like most of all, if you are willing, to discuss when we come to our moment of discussion. 43:30: I would then like to come to the question of individual conscience. What is the duty of an individual if he is faced with an order that he thinks is wrong and obviously any of us if we are at war could find ourselves in such a situation? All religions will agree that conscience has priority and if a man truly and sincerely feels in his conscience that he should not do something, then he shouldn't do it. But, when it comes to war, there are two distinct situations one can find oneself in. To begin with, if one joins the armed forces one knows perfectly well that one is there in order to carry out the objectives of the government and the very fact that one joins the armed forces puts one in a position where one agrees to do what the government asks one. It is in effect a vote of confidence in the particular political system of one’s country. If one is conscripted, I suppose the position is a little bit different. But when it comes to the actual battle, one may be given an order to do something that one feels is wrong, but one still has a duty to the other men in one’s unit. And if what one is going to do is going to disrupt that action and endanger the men that ones with, I question whether other than in very extreme circumstances one has a right to opt out. If on the other hand it's something in isolation from a battle, then it is different. If, again if I may take an example, the men who are ordered to mete out the punishment that was part of life in the concentration camps, who were asked to do something that was not directly contributing to the war. Those were prisoners, they were out of the war. Therefore, to administer any form of torture to them was clearly wrong. Any soldier would have a right to refuse to do that. Some did and paid for it with their lives and are greatly respected today. Any action which is purely retaliation or vindictiveness is wrong. Not just morally wrong, it will ruin, to certain limits, ones cause and therefore even on grounds of expediency thinking of the good of one’s own cause, one has a duty to stand up and not do it and we know that there have been situations in recent wars. In Vietnam one or two where people did things that have been judged wrong, where they could have stood firm and said, 'I won't do it'. I don't underestimate the difficulty because when one is at war of this kind, the difficulty of an anti-terrorist war is that is it not so easy to see what is right and what is wrong. In a global war - like 1939 - there was no doubt. Everybody was behind you, it was easy. In a war like Vietnam or even Northern Ireland it is not so easy. With the best will in the world, people don't know quite what is the right thing in certain situations. So, in my view, this is the area that requires the greatest thought and that perhaps needs working out by all those who can as well as possible. 48:23: And in conclusion, I would like to turn to what is our duty as citizens of the world in peacetime, because this is a question of prevention. The ideal is to prevent conflict rather than have to stifle it once it's broken out. And I think we tend to feel that as individuals there isn't anything we can do. But there is. If I may be personal just for a moment, I remember very clearly at the end of the last war, the big question in most peoples' minds was well we've fought a war that's going to end wars and it hasn't ended conflict. What therefore can we as individuals do about it? At the time I thought that the only way one could ensure there could never be war was for the Allies to be so strong militarily that nobody would fight them. There is a certain truth in that, that every country should be strong according to, relative to, it’s situation and should let a potential aggressor know that if it is attacked, it will fight. And I apply that to our own country, because if we don't let people know that we really mean it and that relative to our resources we are going to be armed and strong, it opens the door to a potential aggressor. In a certain sense Hitler could have said, 'well I didn't know you were going to do that - you never gave me that impression' and the same could be true today. So, I do feel that we should see to it that our own country is prepared and is strong. But clearly the key to peace doesn't lie in armed strength. It lies in the hearts of men. And although one of the causes of war is ill-will, that will always be so, one of the other causes of war is injustice and, in the world, clearly today there is great injustice. I'm not talking at the moment about political injustices, as they tend to be more localised, I'm talking about the great disparity between the poor of the world and the better off. In this, I see the greatest potential threat to our future security because we are one family destined for one end and how can we allow so many of the human family to be so poor, so deprived and then expect there to be harmony and peace in the world? There won't be. And therefore we should recognise our duty as citizens of the world within our ability not only to do something to put it right, but to let those who are poor and deprived know that we mean it, know that we are as best we can, or want to be, their champions. We are put off because we think there is nothing we can do. It's not that there is nothing that we can do, it's merely that there is little we can do. But many little acts do add up and as in the 1930s we were too inward looking, too unwilling to face the outside realities of the world, so I think today we should be more outward looking. More conscious of those realities and more conscious of our total involvement a members of the one human family. 53:02: Thank you, Commandant. 53:04: End of speech 53:07 End of transcription Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Leonard Cheshire morality of force Description An account of the resource Talk on the morality of force at the RAF Staff College. Confined to force used by legitimate government which involves loss of life. Humans have different standards concerning dignity of a human being. Talks of different kinds of law: human and eternal (divine). Introduces Christian faith into discussion. Talks of violence and laws and introduces pacifism. Discuses decision to use force and uses the war as example. Mentions use of air forces in war, bombing of Dresden and use of atomic bomb. Relates augment to current Northern Ireland situation. Discusses individual conscience and supplies conclusions. Submitted with caption 'Leonard Cheshire speaking at an unnamed RAF Staff College in December 1975 on the morality of war from his own viewpoint and experience'. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1975-12 1976-01 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1975-12 1976-01 2020-03-02 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio recording 00:53:01 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource G L Cheshire Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany Germany--Dresden Japan Great Britain Northern Ireland Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SCheshireGL72021v20008-0001, SCheshireGL72021v20008-0001-Transcript Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive bombing bombing of Dresden (13 - 15 February 1945) bombing of Hiroshima (6 August 1945) bombing of Nagasaki (9 August 1945) Cheshire, Geoffrey Leonard (1917-1992) faith perception of bombing war https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1937/38335/NJolliffeFSW170918-010001.jpg 6395df4caf9299ed9e2b65fa5614ad50 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1937/38335/NJolliffeFSW170918-010002.jpg d09404fc8a91ec3d8eb2002eea00745c https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1937/38335/NJolliffeFSW170918-010003.jpg f2ed7237b73af78c065d9c17f4ad254f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jolliffe, Frank Sidney Walter F S W Jolliffe Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-18 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Jolliffe, FSW Description An account of the resource 129 items. The collection concerns Wing Commander Frank Sidney Walter Jolliffe (b. 1923, 1314311 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, documents and photographs. He flew operations as a bomb aimer with 149 Squadron. The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Margaret Lowe and catalogued by Trevor Hardcastle. Transcribed document A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document OCEAN NEWS [Censor: S./L.A.S. TURNBULL, Ship's Security Officer] [Price: Two Cents] [italics] On the Italian Front: [/italics] RELENTLESS STRUGGLE STILL CONTINUES Fifth Army Through Crisis GERMANS WITHDRAWAL FROM SALIENT INDICATED According to the latest reports there is still unrelenting and bloody fighting going on all along the front near Salerno, to the south of Naples. The Allied Fifth Army has, however, passed through its crisis. It had to yield ground and struggle desperately to keep its line intact, but the bridgehead still stands. For the first time since the landing, the Germans failed to make a substantial counter-attack for the 24-hour period and gave indication that they are making a limited withdrawal from the salient which they drove into the Allied bridgehead on Tuesday morning. The army took advantage of the quiet to reorganise and reinforce the lines protecting the bridgehead. NAVY & AIR FORCE SUPPORT New units and equipment rolled up the beach road to relieve the formations, some of which have been fighting for six days. In spite of sporadic air raids on the beach heavy equipment has been landed in lavish quantities. POSITION MORE FAVOURABLE The Allied communique states that naval and air support are playing a great part in the struggle and the Fifth Army's position is becoming more favourable day by day. The Allies chief drawback is the lack of good artillery positions to compare with the enemy positions in the hills all around. This deficiency is being made good as much as can be by employing the guns of the fleet, including such battleships as the "Valiant" and "Warspite," and by air bombing, but they do not make up for the disadvantages in which our land gunners are still placed. EIGHTH ARMY ADVANCING Fifty miles of rough country still lie between the Eighth Army and the Salerno battlefield. Moreover, it is expected that the Germans, who have strong forces available, will do what they can to hinder and prevent the junction of the two armies. So far the Eighth Army's advance has been virtually unopposed. After capturing Belvedere they went on, yesterday, to take the town of Scalea and its two airfields, and are now approaching Sapri. SCALEA AIRFIELDS TAKEN The capture of Scalea gives the Eighth Army an emergency landing ground only 50 miles from the Gulf of Salerno. Fighters at present operating in the beach-head area have been coming from aircraft carriers or have been equipped with long-range fuel tanks to carry them from the aerodromes which have been put into operation in the Calabrian Peninsula. 1200 TONS OF BOMBS DROPPED For the second day in succession, North-West African based air forces beat their own record by making well over 2000 sorties. These were made by all types of bombers and fighters and over 1200 tons of bombs were dropped on the enemy where he was attacking our bridgehead. Most of these air attacks were centred in the Abili area, about ten miles inland. The Allied air forces are estimated to have dropped 86 bombs per square mile on enemy concentrations. In the east, the British Fifth Corps have established themselves firmly in in [sic] Taranto and Brindisi, and are holding everything east of a line from Taranto to Bari. They have established airfields, bases and ports in the extreme south and their grip on Italy south of Naples is tightening. U.S. AIR FORCE OVER POTENZA A Middle-East communique states Liberators of the Ninth U.S.A.A.F. bombed the marshalling yards at Potenza in southern Italy, scoring direct hits on railway bridges. MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF ANOTHER ITALIAN GENERAL Another big Axis figure has died mysteriously – General Hugo Cavallero [Ugo Cavallero], former Italian Chief of Staff. The German Radio gave out that he committed suicide after his release from imprisonment following the Italian surrender, because he could not face the shameful treachery of Italy. U.S. SHIPYARDS OUTPUT On Tuesday, nine more cargo vessels were launched in U.S. shipyards. This made a total of 1227 built this year and was the 2000th ship delivered since America entered the war. Eleven Italian warships arrived at Alexandria, escorted by British warships, from Malta. FURTHER SOVIET SUCCESSES ENEMY ROUTED AFTER COUNTER-ATTACKS As a result of the Soviet victory at Nezhin, the Germans have lost the last main railway on the left bank of the Dnieper. This town is an important rail and communication centre and the key to Kiev, being only 72 miles north-east of the Ukrainian capital. 3000 Germans were killed there and many prisoners taken. Unconfirmed reports describe the Russians as already fighting on the outskirts of Kiev. In the south the Germans tried to check the vigorous advance towards Zaporozhie and Melitopol, but their counter-attacks ended in the rout of many infantry and tank units and 2000 Germans killed. In the Pavlograd area, in central Ukraine, the Germans fell back to fortified places, where they are stubbornly resisting but the Soviets are penetrating the enemy's rear and disorganising his defence. The Germans are bringing up reinforcements to stem the drive but our Allies are forging steadily ahead. GENERAL ACTIVITY IN THE SOUTH-WEST PACIFIC In New Guinea Allied troops are continuing their pincer movement towards Lae. General MacArthur's head-quarters states that the north-western forces captured centres of resistance yesterday and are pushing down the valley. The Australians in the north-east continued their advance and are now only two miles from the town. Allied air forces are actively supporting the ground troops and continue to attack bases further afield. So far, it is reported that 300 Japanese have been killed or wounded in this operation. The usual air activity took place and attacks made on Japanese areas in the Solomons, the Bismarck Archipeligo [sic], New Guinea and the Dutch Islands to the west of New Guinea. A statement on the war in the Solomons, put out by the Japanese Imperial head-quarters, says that the situation there continued to be grim. Beaufighters in Action over Burma The India communique states: "Continuing their attacks on road, river and railway communications in Burma, R.A.F. Beaufighters again carried out offensive patrols in difficult weather. Along the Irrawaddy and Chidwin rivers, oil tanks at Yenagyt and the landing stage at Monywa were heavily attacked, and many river craft including sampans damaged. Over 30 sampans at Ramree island were sunk or damaged, and damage was caused to the jetty at Kyaukpu. None of our aircraft is missing. BRITISH BOMBERS OVER OCCUPIED EUROPE U.S. Eighth Air Force Attack Aircraft Plants Bombers from Britain were out over occupied Europe last night. The Air Ministry and U.S. H.Q. announce "the U.S. Eighth Air Force Flying Fortresses attacked the Hispano-Suiza and the Caudron-Renault aircraft plants and C.A.M. ball-bearing works on Wednesday. The targets which are all in the Paris area were bombed with good results. Sixteen Enemy Fighters Destroyed. Fortresses also attacked the airfield at Romilly, 60 miles south-east of Paris, and Liberators attacked other airfields in France. Allied fighters escorted and supported the heavy bombers which destroyed 16 enemy fighters. Escorted and supported by R.A.F., Dominion and Allied fighters, U.S. Marauders attacked the airfield at Merville, 40 miles south-east of Calais, and R.A.F. Mitchells the airfield at Bryas-Sud. From these operations six heavy bombers and three fighters are missing." Repairing Depots Hit. C.A.M. stands for Compagnie d'Applications Mechaniques. Fighters are repaired and overhauled at the Hispano-Suiza plant and the Caudron Renault repairs Me.109s. Romilly is one of the most important bases still available to enemy fighters in the west. This was the first time in the west that Fortresses and Liberators in force attacked at dusk and landed at night. The Air Ministry announced later that a heavy attack was also made on an important rubber factory at Montluçon, north-west of Vichy. First reports from the air crews describe the raid as effective and damage heavy, but the thick cloud over the target area prevented accurate observation. This factory mainly produced synthetic rubber, and the greater part of the output went back direct to the Reich. Bomber Command Visits Berlin Bomber Command also sent planes to attack targets in Berlin and other points in north-west Germany. Fighter Command Intruders attacked road and rail transport in France and the Low Countries. Eight bombers and two fighters were lost from the above operations. Enemy Planes Over England The Germans sent 15 bombers over England last night, three of which were shot down over the south-east coast and one over France. They entered by the south-east and headed for London. One or two got through and the air-raid alarm lasted about one hour. Some Casualties Reported. Heavy gunfire was heard and bombs were dropped in the London area, as well as on two towns on the south-east coast. Some damage and a small nnmber [sic] of casualties have been reported. [page break] OCEAN NEWS [Censor: S./L.A.S. TURNBULL, Ship's Security Officer] [Price: Two Cents] [italics] On the Italia Front: [/italics] FIERCE BATTLE RAGING SOUTH OF NAPLES HUGE LAND AND AIR FORCES ON 25-MILE FRONT Allied Fifth Army in Terrific Conflict Near Salerno, to the south of Naples, British, American and German troops are locked together in a tremendous struggle. Huge land and air forces are being thrown against our men by the enemy all along the 25-mile bridgehead. Many of the German crack troops are in this sector – the Hermann Goering Division and the Fifteenth and Sixteenth Panzer Divisions. The Allied Fifth Army is smashing again and again at enemy strongpoints and troop concentrations. Many heavy guns are in action and some of our big tanks have been landed, but it is not yet known whether these tanks have been in battle. The Germans gained some-ground in this sector yesterday, but a battle of such intensity is bound to swing backwards and forwards all the time. The enemy have the advantage over our troops here as they are holding a high ridge of ground and, consequently, have the whole battle ground constantly in view; they can see and prepare against each of our new offensives as it is formed. The Germans also have the advantage in that their airfields are closer to the front lines than our own. At one time yesterday, 120 German fighters were in the air over our bridgehead. Our fighters, however, sailed into them from dawn to dusk and destroyed more than four times the number of our own aircraft which were lost. The losses on both sides in this terrific battle are likely to be heavy. [italics] Another Port Captured [/italics] In the south-east of Italy British forces, driving up the coast from Brindisi, have now reached and occupied Bari. Bari ranks next to Naples in importance as a port in Southern Italy. The British drive up the west coast has now taken Cosenza and our forces are approximately one-third of the distance to Naples from their initial landing at Reggio. The Allies are now arriving in Italy in great numbers and are proving themselves masters of the seas and skies. General Eisenhower has under his command huge forces in Africa and Sicily, and the eventual outcome of this conflict cannot be doubted. [italics] Surrender of Italian Fleet [/italics] The Italian Fleet is scrupulously honouring the engagement entered into by the Italian Government upon surrender. Sixty-eight of the larger units of the Italian Fleet are now either in Allied ports or are en route. This figure includes five battleships, six cruisers and 27 destroyers, in addition to submarines and the smaller combat craft. ROYAL NAVY IN ACTION OFF DUTCH COAST A naval skirmish off Holland described in an Admiralty communique stating "while on patrol off the coast of Holland, near Ijmuiden last night, light coastal forces under the command of Lt. J. C. Trelawny, D.S.C. encountered a group of enemy patrol vessels. TORPEDO HIT OBSERVED. H.M. ships thrust home their attack to close range in the face of rapid fire from the enemy, and a torpedo hit was observed on one of the patrol ships. Two other hits were possibly scored on the enemy force, but in the darkness it was impossible to observe the full results of the attack. All H.M. ships returned safely to harbour, having suffered no damage. One rating was slightly wounded.” 2 ITALIAN SHIPS SCUTTLED According to the Japanese Domei news agency, two Italian vessels in Japanese-held waters were scuttled by their crews when the Japanese attempted to take possession. They were the liner [italics] Conti Verde [/italics] [Conte Verde] and the gunboat [italics] Laconta. [/italics] [Lepanto] The R.A.F. again raided troop positions in the Arakan district of Burma yesterday. Beaufighters made several sweeps up the Irriwaddy River, sinking many river craft and supply barges. In the new loan drive in the U.S. two and one quarter thousand million dollars has been subscribed in the first five days. Mrs. Roosevelt left Australia by air yesterday in the Liberator which has carried her many thousands of miles. BRYANSK NOW IN RUSSIAN HANDS TROOPS ADVANCING ON ALL FRONTS The latest major victory of the Red Army is the capture of the German stronghold of Bryansk. This city, once a main German base, has been the objective of powerful Russian drives from the north-east and south-east since they occupied Orel at the beginning of their great offensive. The Germans had constructed a number of hedgehog defences extending 3200 kilometres from Leningrad in the north, down to Rostov, on the Sea of Azov. Drive towards the Sea of Azov. The main bastions comprised Rhzev, Vyazma, Smolensk, Bryansk and Kursk. Of these five great fortresses only Smolensk now remains in German hands. The Soviet advance also continues into the Ukraine. It has been reported that 43,000 German colonists have passed through Kiev during this week, as they fled before the advancing Red Army. In their drive along the shores of the Sea of Azov, our Allies have now captured the town of Yalta, about 25 kilometres west of Mariupol. Heavy casualties have been inflicted upon the enemy in this sector and more than 150 towns and villages have been liberated in this latest success. Activity flares up in Caucaucus. Activity has again flared up in the Caucasus and heavy fighting was reported, yesterday, in the streets of Novorassisk. One of the immediate results of the Italian surrender is the fact that Germany is rushing thousands of troops and planes to the shores of the Mediterranean, thus relieving the pressure on the Russian front. The great eastern battle front is the one which Hitler failed to mention in his speech last week. ALLIED AIR ACTIVITY OVER ENEMY SHIPPING Owing to bad weather conditions there was very little air activity over the continent yesterday. Today Typhoons have again been active in harassing enemy shipping. Aircraft from two squadrons together sank one small vessel, left four on fire and damaged six others. In the face of intense flak from shore batteries and the ships, the cannon-carrying Typhoons of a New Zealand squadron attacked at sea level off Cherbourg, leaving a tug well on fire and sinking, setting fire to a naval auxiliary of 1000 tons and damaging two escorting craft. All our aircraft returned safely. Formation of medium bombers, escorted by fighters passed over the south-east coast near Dover this evening flying to the north of Calais. The planes were seen returning from the other side some fifty minutes later. ALLIES CAPTURE JAPANESE BASE TROOPS NOW MASTERS OF JUNGLE WARFARE The latest communique from Gen. MacArthur's headquarters reports the capture of the important Japanese base of Salamaua. Pioneer troops swam the Franciso River and occupied the town to find that the Japanese had already fled. Seven long months of bombing and the threat of steel bayonets had proved too much for them. The Japanese troops are now being beaten at their game of jungle warfare. The Allied soldiers have mastered the art of fighting their way forward foot by foot through the swamps and forests. They are killing the Japs with knives, their hands or any other manner which presents itself. The Japanese have now fallen back upon their last strong base in New Guinea at Lae. Our forces are already at the outskirts of this town and its fall is considered iminent.[sic] Up in the North Pacific U.S. bombers have again struck at the Japanese naval base of Paramushira, in the Kurile Islands, which lies only four miles flying distance from the Japanese mainland. The latest attack on the Japanese base destroyed ground installations and damaged five enemy warships lying in the harbour. U.S. Bombers Attack Oil Base A late despatch from General McArthur's headquarters reveals that yesterday a force of American bombers flew 4000 kilometres and made a successful attack on a large enemy oil storage base in the Celebes. It is now known that ten U.S. planes failed to return from the raid on Paramoshiri. Ten and possibly 13 Japanese planes were shot down. [boxed] [italics] Time Bombs and Depth Charges [/italics] [boxed] IT would be nice if we could build a better world just from better plans . . . The fact is that it's going take some better people. [symbol] Oratory is no substitute for action. WE'VE got meatless days. – We might also cut out the beefing. We have heatless houses. – Let's drop the heated arguments. We have tireless cars. – Let's be tireless at work. [symbol] The shirt does not enjoy the wash-board; but it makes it clean. AN ambitious young woman was to entertain a duchess for the first time. She gave careful instructions to her maid. "Now Mary," she said, "whenever you address the duchess you must say 'Your Grace'." When the great day arrived and the maid opened the door to the duchess, the latter asked if Mrs. . . . was at home, she answered: "Yes, ma'am, she is, and may the Lord make us truly thankful for what we are about to receive." [symbol] The real isolationists are those who think they can live for themselves. [page break] OCEAN NEWS [Censor: S./L.A.S. TURNBULL, Ship's Security Officer] [Price: Two Cents] Another Victory to Great Summer Offensive Novorossisk Captured By Land and Sea The Soviet Army has added another victory to their Great Summer Offensive. Yesterday, the Black Sea port of Novorossisk was carried by storm from land and sea. Novorossisk was the Russians main naval base in the Black Sea and was the Germans last main hold in the Caucasus, lying just across the narrow Kerch Straits to the eastern end of the Crimea. NAZIS FORCES ROUTED In the five days' fighting which preceded the capture of the port, three German divisions, a strong force of German marines and a division of the Rumanian army were routed. In their drive along the north shores of the Sea of Azov the Red Army is now only eight kilometres from Militapol. In the Central Ukraine the enemy is still retreating, with big losses, to Narogar south of the Dnieper bend. ALLIES APPROACHING KIEV Further north our Allies are in full pursuit of the Germans across the River Desna and yesterday captured Novgorod-Seversky. They are now rapidly closing-in on Preluki, 35 miles south-west of Nyezhin, and are fast approaching the outer defence system of Kiev. The Germans are rushing up reinforcements, but several large groups of the enemy are surrounded in the marshy ground. The Invasion of Salerno (continued) batteries, artillery positions in the hills and the machine-gun stations along the beaches. AMERICAN TROOPS TOUGH JOB While we had ideal landing beaches and the sea was calm, the Americans were faced with one of the toughest propositions yet confronted by an amphibious force. It is believed that at least two German divisions, including armour, were waiting for us. The first few waves found little opposition, but hell broke loose just before dawn. By nightfall on Thursday there was hardly a man ashore that did not have his foxhole. Most of our beaches were still under machine gun and mortar fire and all under shell fire. GREATEST BARRAGE EVER SEEN Soon after dark bombers came over in force and gave their attention to the invasion armada. One of the greatest barrages ever seen was put up by Allied ships of all sizes and shapes and the raiders were kept at a great height. Hundreds of flares lit up Salerno Bay, turning night into day, but not a single ship was hit, though there were many near misses. Results have now been obtained from the risks rightly taken under the necessity of exploiting the armistice promptly and supporting the Italian Government on its surrender. [italics] In the Mediterranean: [/italics] ALLIES TAKE INITIATIVE ON SALERNO FRONT British Fifth and Eighth Army Patrols Now Linked Up FIERCE GERMAN REAR-GUARD ACTION We have now taken the initiative in the actual fighting area around Salerno and have successfully flung back three fierce German counter-attacks. Our bridgeheads are now firmly established and patrols of the British Eighth Army have now joined patrols of the Allied Fifth Army some ten miles south of the Salerno bridgehead. During the last 24 hours, after a week of bitter fighting, the enemy's stand has thinned out considerably but unusually strong and well-armed rear-guard actions have been fought to cover the withdrawal of the German troops. Many prisoners have already been taken and two salients driven inland to the extent of ten miles. [italics] Battle for Two Roads [/italics] Patrols of the British Fifth Army Corps have also come up from the south-east and have linked up with those of the Fifth and Eighth Armies at Agropoli. General Montgomery's troops have thus advanced over 200 miles from the Gulf of Taranto in two weeks. At the northern end of the bridge the battle is in progress for two important roads – one south to Naples and the other running inland from Avelino. The Germans apparently shot their bolt when making their fiercest attack on our bridgehead on Tuesday when the Allied defenders finally held the enemy three miles from the beaches. MAGNIFICENT AIR SUPPORT The terrific air support given to our troops has greatly reduced the enemy's supply of guns, ammunition and stores by blocking their supply routes. This support was continued yesterday when the road and rail junctions at Potenza were again successfully attacked. Terrific damage was done to this main junction leading from northern, eastern and southern Italy into Naples. There is very little opposition from German fighters. One enemy plane was shot down yesterday and two of our planes were lost. NASIS [sic] BEGIN LOOTING It now appears that food is becoming short in German-occupied Italy and the looting of Italian farms and villages has begun. As a result of this the bad feeling which already existed has reached a point where the Italian peasants are rising against the Germans and guerrilla warfare has now broken out. THE INVASION OF SALERNO It is now known that as our Great Armada steamed towards the invasion point last Wednesday, we were attacked by German bombers. The enemy had taken over all the Italian continued in preceding column JAPANESE RESISTANCE AT LAE BEING OVERCOME The resistance of the Japanese defenders at Lae, New Guinea, is being overcome. Allied troops are now fighting their way through the main fortifications. Yesterday our bombers, with strong fighter escort, made a heavy attack on the main airfield at Wewak, 90 miles up the coast from Lae. Sixty-six tons of bombs were concentrated on the target in less than 15 minutes, scoring direct hits. Two large oil dumps were set ablaze. Sixty to seventy enemy fighters intercepted in an effort to halt our attacks, and for nearly an hour they fought viciously. In brilliant defence, our planes shot down 39, and probably destroyed ten more. Fortresses' Raid on U-Boats and Docks Twenty-Nine Enemy Fighters Destroyed An official communique from London states that U.S. Eight Air Force Fortresses attacked the port facilities, shipping and an airfield at Nantes, the U-Boats and docks at La Pallice, and the airfields at Cognac and La Rochelle in France yesterday. The formation attacking Cognac and La Pallice flew over 1600 miles and landed at their home bases after dark. There were numerous battles with enemy fighters, 27 of which were destroyed by Fortresses and two by supporting Thunderbolts. Marauders and Mitchells attacked the airfields at Beaumont le Roget and Tricqueville, and the marshalling yards at Serqueux and power stations near Rouen. R.A.F., Dominion and Allied fighters escorted and covered the medium bombers and carried out supporting sweeps. Some enemy fighter opposition was encountered in the attack on Beaumont le Roget, and six enemy planes were destroyed. From these operations 13 heavy bombers and three fighters are missing. CANADIAN FLYERS IN ATTACK The Bomber Command, including Canadian Halifax Squadrons, again attacked railway communications last night. This time the attack was concentrated on the communications between France and Italy. The main attack was against the French frontier town of Modane, which is near the Monsignie Monginevro tunnel [Fréjus Rail Tunnel] to Turin. The Andiol viaduct near St. Raphael, east of Cannes, across which runs the railway to Genoa. Mosquitoes were again over Berlin last night. Four bombers, including a Canadian bomber and one Canadian fighter, are missing. Command planes attacked enemy shipping from Norway to the English Channel, and a Hampden hit two merchant vessels with torpedoes. Two of our Coastal Command aircraft are missing. [boxed] Time Bombs and Depth Charges [/boxed] [symbol] Those who take time out for themselves are putting time in for the enemy. IT takes a baby approximately two years to learn to talk and between sixty and seventy-five to keep his mouth shut. [symbol] Unselfishness is the only voice which can change the conversation when money talks. A HIGH Nazi official was visiting Switzerland and was introduced to a Swiss, who was described as an Admiral. "What does a country which has no sea and no navy want with an Admiral?" said the Nazi facetiously. "And why not?!" said the Swiss, "After all, Germany has a Minister of Justice!" [symbol] Some people tell you high ideals are unattainable as an excuse for putting up with low ones. I MET my friend in a rather peculiar manner: I stepped on his dog when leaving the pub; when the dog yelped I patted its head and said facetiously: "Does the dog drink?" "No, but I do," said its owner. So we walked back and had one. [symbol] We can save democracy through the keenness of our arms and still lose it through the dullness of our minds. A [missing word] who was very proud of his voice was describing a wonderful dream he'd had. "I was in a mighty choir," he said, "5.000 sopranos, 5,000 altos, 5,000 tenors – all singing together double forte." "It must have been wonderful," said the listener, "but what about the basses." "That was it!" said the dreamer, "Suddenly the conductor stopped the choir and, turning to me, said: ‘Not quite so loud in the bass, please, Mr. Owen'!" [symbol] The new spirit the world needs cannot be distilled simply from the heat of conflict; it will take warm hearts and kindled imagination. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Three pages of Ocean News Description An account of the resource Paper published on an American ship in September 1943. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1943-09 Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Three printed pages Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NJolliffeFSW170918-010001, NJolliffeFSW170918-010002, NJolliffeFSW170918-010003 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1943-09 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sue Smith Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Atlantic Ocean--English Channel Burma Caucasus North Africa Egypt Egypt--Alexandria Great Britain England--London France France--Cherbourg France--La Pallice France--Merville (Nord) France--Modane France--Montluçon France--Rouen Germany Germany--Berlin Indonesia Indonesia--Sulawesi Italy Italy--Bari Italy--Brindisi Italy--Potenza Italy--Salerno Italy--Taranto Japan Papua New Guinea Papua New Guinea--Salamaua Russia (Federation) Russia (Federation)--Bri︠a︡nsk Ukraine Ukraine--I︠A︡lta Ukraine--Kyïv United States Burma--Ramree Island https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2140/36880/ABerrillR220223.mp3 2088ba7a6b2a22a47d6746c6de108790 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2140/36880/PBerrillR20220222.jpg 62097c03b299cef6924cd09318ad6317 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Berrill, Roy R Berrill Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with Roy Berrill (b. 1924, 189888 Royal Air Force). He was one of three Meteorological Officers at RAF North Creake. The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2022-02-23 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Berrill, R Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document DE: Just check it’s recording. So, this is an interview with Roy Berrill for the IBCC Digital Archive. I’m Dan Ellin. It is the 21st of February 2022 and we’re in Easingwold in Yorkshire. I’ll put that there. RB: Well, actually it’s the twenty, yeah the 23rd. DE: Yes. RB: Right. Are you alright there? DE: Yeah. I’m just, I’m just, I want to just check that this is recording. RB: Yes. Ok. DE: So, Roy could you first of all tell me a little bit about your early life and I believe you were evacuated. RB: Yes. I was born in Northampton and I stayed in Northampton until I was, I think it was twelve or thirteen when we moved. Had to move to London for various reasons and at which time I lived in Becontree and went to school in Barking Abbey Grammar School which was, wasn’t a mixed school. It was a school where the boys and girls were separated. Now, is that ok? DE: Yeah. That’s fine. RB: Is it working alright? DE: It’s going fine. Yeah. RB: Righto. My homelife was rather restrictive. My mother came from a strict Baptist family so I was really, well we were all very restricted as children but I was particularly restricted because I was a relatively weak child. I was always fainting and this sort of thing and I was no good at sports so there we are. But when I moved, when we moved to Becontree in Essex as I say I went to Barking Abbey School, Grammar School there and on the 1st of September 1939 I became an evacuee. I left home with my gas mask and a few changes of clothes and we went to school and then we were told at 10 o’clock in the morning we had to walk to Rainham Underground Station where we travelled right across London to Ealing Broadway where we caught a steam train which went to Bristol. We got to Bristol about the middle of the day. We had no food or nothing to drink and we still stuck out just outside Bristol Station not knowing what was happening. Eventually the train went on to Weston-Super-Mare and for the next three years I was an evacuee in Weston-Super-Mare where I lived in six different places as an evacuee. I took my, the equivalent of O Levels or what was then called School Certificate and I passed every subject including Latin but I failed at one subject and that was woodwork. I then stayed on at school to take my Higher School Certificate but the snag was that during that time the school was bombed and so the part of the school which we were sharing with the local people from Weston-Super-Mare half of the school got burned down. And there was another school then dumped on the same school so there were three schools in the same building and the night when they, the school, that part of the school got burned down I was supposed to be taking my Higher School Cert and we hadn’t got any exam papers. So they had to collect all the exam papers from the other school which was from London and then sit the exam. I seem to have passed that subject [laughs] and then at the suggestion of one of my brothers I applied to go to Queen Mary College, London which is now Queen Mary University I understand. I never set foot, I have still never set foot in Queen Mary College yet [laughs] But the college was actually evacuated to Cambridge where I was allowed two years to do a three year general degree and at the same time I had to do two afternoons a week with the other Cadet Force to train to be an officer. After one year I decided I didn’t like the Army so I transferred to the ATC, Air Training Corps and that’s how I got into the Air Force. While we were at university as I say we had to do these two afternoons a week and we also had to do fire watching and I spent the odd night on the top of King’s College, Cambridge actually looking for fires. It was a platform with no handrail of any kind right on the apex of King’s College Chapel. So that was an experience. However, I seemed to have passed my degree by the skin of my teeth and I had no sooner finished my exams than the Air Force called me up to see what I was going to do. And I said I wanted to be a Met officer because I was very interested in Met work at the time and they said, ‘Oh, that’s just what we want. Some more Met officers.’ So they allowed me to go and train as a Met officer at Kilburn in London. I did my training there and having completed the training and passed I was then sent to Warboys in Cambridgeshire as a forecaster to see how it was done and what happened. So I had a few weeks at Warboys and then I was moved to the next station at Wyton where I dropped a major clanger at the time. The point being I was supposed to be doing the observations for one night while I let the assistant go and have a bit of a snooze and I didn’t know anything about how you worked out visibility at night in the blackout and thick fog so I assumed that it was still foggy. I got a telephone call later on. He said, ‘Why are you the only station in the area that’s got fog? All the other stations around you are as clear as can be.’ Well, I couldn’t talk myself out of that one because I didn’t know how to do visibility at night. So there we are. But eventually I got transferred to North Creake and I’ve written a piece of paper which tells you about my, what happened at North Creake. DE: Yeah. RB: Do you wish me to read that out or — DE: No. That’s, that’s fine if I can take a copy of that that will be good. RB: Yeah. That’s your copy. DE: Yeah. So, so how do you tell the visibility at night? RB: You have to go outside and let your eyes adjust and you have to be sure you know where things are and you look in that direction. And very gradually your eyes do adjust to the dark and you can just make out what is going on. But it’s a very hit and miss sort of process. DE: So you look for landmarks that you know are a certain distance away. RB: That’s right. Yes. Yes. DE: Right. RB: So I got to North Creake and a very interesting time while I was there. And one of the interesting things as far as I was concerned was I flew one morning on an air test with a, in a Stirling bomber and the pilot took me up just to have a look around while he was doing his air test and we came back down. And that night he went out with his crew and he was killed over North France by friendly fire. The Americans. His name was Tiny Thurlow. He was a Canadian and he was six foot odd and that’s why he was called Tiny. A nice chap. All his crew from his aircraft managed to get out. He told them to get out but before he [emphasis] could get out the plane blew up. So there we are. One or two other little stories which are of interest to me at least was after VE Day there was a tannoy over North Creake that said, ‘Is there anybody here who can speak German?’ And one chap said, ‘Yes. I can speak German.’ ‘Oh. How well can you speak German?’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘I have a First Class Honours degree from Cambridge in German.’ ‘Oh, you’re just the sort of chap that we want. What are you doing here?’ He said, ‘I have to paint the edges of the coals around the station to stop people tripping over it at night.’ I thought that was an excellent example [laughs] of how to use manpower. The other little thing is that is not recorded on that sheet is there’s, in a photograph there is a what looks like a long sort of covered affair and that is where we used to store the gas to blow up balloons. We had balloons which were supposed to ascend at a certain rate and you fuelled it up to a particular size which was measured with a piece of wire and you released it and it’s supposed to go up at a certain rate and you timed it and there was, you know. Thereby you could tell where the base of the cloud was. So that’s my basic experience of, of North Creake and subsequently after VE Day and VJ Day I eventually got a, this is after the war of course I got posted to [pause] Tilbury and they sent me up to Lancashire to get kitted out for the Far East. I went back to Tilbury, caught the ship, the Strathaird which set sail and we were told we were going to India. We got as far as Gibraltar, dropped the anchor and literally dropped the anchor down a pothole. So we lost an anchor and the ship can’t go through Suez Canal with one anchor. It has to have two. So we waited a week in Gibraltar for a second anchor to be brought out. Eventually we went through Suez Canal and while in the Red Sea I had Vaccine Fever which wasn’t very good in that temperature. And we got to Bombay and when we got to Bombay they said to me, ‘What the hell are you doing here?’ I said, ‘Well, I’ve been sent here.’ ‘Oh, well we’ve got nothing for you to do here. You’d better go to Singapore.’ I said, ‘Well, how do I do that?’ ‘Oh, your ship is being diverted to Singapore.’ ‘Oh, righto.’ But they filled, there were about twelve of us on a ship with only twelve officers on. It was a forty thousand tonne ship and you think what happened to the rest of the ship. ‘Oh, we’re taking people to return home to Singapore.’ So we were filled up with Malays and Indians and goodness knows what. And within a matter of minutes the decks were red where they were spitting all their stuff having chewed betel nuts and what have you and, but as soon as we got out of Bombay it happened to be monsoon season so the ship started to pitch and roll and that sent all these, these people returning to Singapore below. We never saw them again. And I got to Singapore and they said, ‘Who the hell are you? Where have you come from and what are you doing here?’ And I said, I told them and I said I’d been sent here and they said, ‘Oh, well we’d better find something for you to do.’ So they said, ‘Oh, we’ll send you on to Japan.’ ‘Oh, thank you very much. How do I get there?’ ‘Oh, you’ll have to wait for a ship to come in.’ I said, ‘Well, when is that going to be?’ ‘We’ve no idea.’ So they said, ‘’Well, and while you’re here you might as well, we might as well make use of you. You’d better go to Seletar.’ Which is on the north side of Singapore Island and it was basically a Flying Boat base. Well, A, I knew nothing about the weather in Singapore so I didn’t know much about forecasting and I knew nothing about Flying Boats either. Anyway, one day I decided when I was off duty I would go back in to Singapore and down to the docks. Having got to the docks I saw a ship there and a bloke standing on the gang plank swaying, so I said to him, ‘Hello. Are you a British ship?’ He said, ‘Of course we are.’ I said, ‘Where are you going?’ ‘Japan.’ I said, ‘Well, that’s what I need.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘If you want to get on you’d better go and get your stuff pretty quickly. We’re going this evening.’ So I dashed back to Seletar, collected all my gear which was at the laundry so wet or not I packed it all in and dashed back to the ship and got on it. Told nobody. DE: Oh. RB: Nobody cared. Nobody seemed to know. I got on this ship and we went, we got, we went to Japan via Hong Kong and we got to Kure and we were then taken by train to our station which was a place called Iwakuni. But you had to go through Hiroshima and I got to Hiroshima one year exactly after the atomic bomb. We then went on to where I was stationed at Iwakuni and I was there for just short of two years during which time we had, we had [pause] we were called the British Commonwealth Occupation err Occupying Forces. And on the station where I was were English, well British really and New Zealanders, Kiwis and flying mostly Dakotas and things of that kind. There was, there were two other British stations. One further down the line, one for Australians and then one on the north side of the island which was for Indian Air Force. While we were there I met Lord Tedder who came and he was going to the trials in Tokyo. Also while I was there there was a Japanese being taken to Tokyo to give his record of what happened and he was to be prosecuted. Well, the forecasting place where I was based was next door to a kitchen which was to provide food for people passing through and this chappie had a few minutes left to himself so he picked up a butcher’s knife and committed Hara-kiri actually in that kitchen. So he never got to Tokyo. Later on because all buildings were wooden we had an arson attack and the whole of the officer’s mess got burned to the ground and we lost two people there. I managed to get out in the smoke and we then had to be rehoused in another building which was really basically for the erks as it were. We hadn’t got any clothing and so we went to the stores and they said, ‘Well, here you are. Here’s some shirts for you and some trousers.’ We put the shirts on and they came down to our waist. They were intended for the WAAFs [laughs] So we eventually got kitted out and as I say we were stuck there for the rest of the time. And eventually one of the chaps who was a forecaster at North Creake. He happened to be at the same place Iwakuni so I knew him. He wasn’t a very nice chap but never mind. He went. He was demobbed, sent home and the other forecaster he was sent home. So there was a period for me when they did get another forecaster out when there were only two of us so it was twenty four hours on and twenty four hours off which was a bit of a trial but never mind. I found all sorts of things to do and I met up with a New Zealander who said, ‘You should come and live in New Zealand.’ I said, ‘I don’t want to come and live in New Zealand at the moment. I want to go home and get married to my [laughs] my fiancé,’ who I’d met in Cambridge. And then on one occasion as I say Lord Tedder came. Lord Tedder went on to Tokyo by train and his aircraft was going back to the UK so I got a hitch in Lord Tedder’s Dakota down to Hong Kong and had two or three days in Hong Kong which was an interesting exercise. But of course, how the hell did I get back? ‘Oh, well there’s a Flying Boat going back up to Iwakuni’ So I jumped aboard that. A huge Sunderland aircraft which I got in. I was the only passenger. So it was a very pleasant ride. DE: Yeah. RB: And as I say we, all our stuff came via Sunderlands from the UK eventually. While we were there for the first about six months all our food was tinned and then suddenly one day we got an aircraft that came up from New Zealand bringing fresh celery and we went absolutely berserk eating celery which was a wonderful change. However, as I say eventually of course I was demobbed but before I was demobbed they said, ‘Well, you’ve been in the Air Force a fair while. We think you might have promotion. But before you have promotion what else do you do besides weather forecasting?’ Well, as it happened I was interested in teaching other people who were illiterate and I didn’t know anything about illiteracy at the time so I started to teach them about numeracy. So they accepted that as a good reason to get promotion. So I was actually promoted to flight lieutenant when I came home. When I got on board ship to come back I was made troops catering officer. Of course, I knew such a lot about catering [laughs] Anyway, that was my job while I was on board ship. But the ship on the way back was constantly being diverted to places they hadn’t intended to go. For example, having got to Singapore we were supposed to come on home but we got diverted to Colombo first, then to Aden, then to a place called [Misawa] and some other funny place. Port something or other. Then through the Suez Canal and having got through the Suez Canal it was Christmas so as an officer I had to serve the troops with their chicken for Christmas dinner [laughs] Then we got diverted again to Algiers and eventually after, I think it was well over nine weeks I arrived home. I got, got got to the UK on the 5th of January and got married on the 10th of January. DE: Oh wow. RB: And I think that’s more or less my story. DE: Yeah. RB: For the time being. DE: Yeah. RB: Is that enough? DE: That’s, that’s a brilliant start. I’d love to go back and ask you a couple more questions if that’s all right. RB: By all means. DE: Do you want to have a, have a drink — RB: Yes. DE: Of your coffee. RB: Good idea. [pause] RB: You may understand of course that I live on my own. Although I have a number of people who come in and help me considerably. DE: Yeah. RB: So anyway. What were your questions? DE: Well, it’s a little bit more about your, your role as the Met officer and forecasting. So you said here that when you were at North Creake — RB: Yeah. DE: You had, there were three other officers there with you and you worked shifts. RB: Well, well, there were three. Three Met officers. DE: Yeah. RB: Including myself. Yes. DE: And you worked shifts. One ‘til ten and then the next day eight ‘til one. RB: Yeah. DE: And then 10pm ‘til 8pm and then the third day you were, you were off. RB: That’s it. DE: What, and you’ve also mentioned setting the balloons and trying to check the visibility at night. RB: Yes. DE: What, what other, what other jobs did you have to do as a Met officer? RB: Well, we had an assistant of course and it was their job, a WAAF to record all this information. And that information was sent to the [pause] I’ve forgotten what he was called. Sort of the local Regional Met Office and it was they who were required to produce the forecast for the flight. Wherever the Group was being sent. We were not allowed to alter that in any way even if we disagreed with it and I think I have explained in there on one occasion there was a significant difference where they didn’t realise there was a thunderstorm around which we did know and that stopped the flight for that night. I always went. I did the forecast with all the crew there and the officers who were also telling what the target was and all this sort of thing and I also attended the debriefing afterwards just to find out how accurate the forecast was. So does that answer your —? DE: Yeah. Yeah. What was the atmosphere like at the briefings when you were telling them the weather? RB: Well, of course, being 100 Group they didn’t do bombing. They were concerned with dropping radar interference. Most of. Window it was called and they were going for them at that time they would go and stooge around for about eight hours, dropping this Window. And of course, flying at the height at which they were which was anything between ten and twenty thousand feet they were very prone to the weather itself including icing which I’ve mentioned in there. So, whereas modern aircraft of course flying at thirty thousand feet and the other interesting thing to me is because I still follow the weather our forecasting was done at two thousand feet. We drew up a synoptic chart on a regular basis every three hours and every six hours for the country as a whole and, but nowadays of course the forecasting is done at thirty thousand feet with a Jetstream. Well, we knew about the Jetstream but we didn’t know anything about what it did or how it worked and we had no idea what it was all about. And we had a wonderful piece of instrument. It was on a pole and it was like a garden rake but with the prongs sticking upwards and you had to estimate what the height of the cloud was in this Jetstream and then you had to time it between each of the prongs. And you then had to calculate how fast that Jetstream was. But having done that nobody knew what to do with it. It was a ridiculous arrangement because you were looking at cloud at anything from thirty to thirty five thousand feet and this made the accuracy pretty hopeless. So there we are. Does that answer your question? DE: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So did you get, did you get intelligence from, from the aircraft as well? I know they had Meteorological flights and some of the crews reported back wind speeds and directions and things. RB: Yes. There were, I think it was four places that would send up balloons much bigger than the cloud thing and that had a series of each instruments dangling below the balloon which would record air pressure from which you could calculate the height, temperature, humidity, and the drift would tell you the windspeed. So that was, that was useful and mostly they just eventually the balloon would burst and we would lose that apparatus but occasionally they would be found perhaps in Norway or Sweden. So there we are. That was that. What else? One of them incidentally was fairly close to a docking we sent up from there. The other thing was some places at Docking I think it was they would send up either a Hurricane or a Spitfire suitably adapted with a, with a gadget on it that would tell you the height and the biometric pressure and they too would record humidity, temperature and they could calculate the direction and speed of the wind and what have you. So they just circled a way above the station to a certain height and that was it. And that was very useful because being in Norfolk you had that wretched North Sea stratas or haar or whatever you’d like to call it which was absolutely deadly from the point of view of forecasting. We couldn’t, we didn’t know anything about it to be honest and they still don’t know. They still get them. So anyway, does that answer your question? DE: Yes. Yeah. That’s wonderful. RB: Anything else? DE: I can probably, I can probably look through and find something else. Yeah. So you mentioned the pilot, Tiny. How well did you know him? RB: Oh, only, only socially in the mess. Not, not very well. I didn’t get close to many of the aircrew to be honest because they came and went. I was more interested with my colleagues in the Met office and in the air traffic control because that was all relevant as far as I was concerned, you know. Giving them QFE and QFC and what have you. And so I didn’t get close to aircraft crew. I did one or two of the ground crew. The maintenance people. I got to know one or two of them but I have no contact with them. Not now. DE: No. No. Have you been involved in the, in the Memorial at North Creake? RB: Not yet. DE: Right. RB: No. I think that’s one of the things that they want me to do. I have joined. I joined this 100 Group Memorial Group but unfortunately of course that’s all based in Norwich and I can’t get. I have no car now. I’ve only got a little electric buggy. I can’t go more than fifteen miles away from here. Anything else? DE: Let’s have a look, see. Could you tell me a little bit more about your time when you were evacuated and your time at Cambridge? Where were you staying? Where were you living? RB: Well, as an evacuee in Weston-Super-Mare as I say I had six places that I lived and the last one I lived in was a hotel which had many of the recruits that were being trained doing square bashing on the front. And the hotel was a crummy place. It really was disastrous. Eventually it had to be closed because the conditions that were there were really beyond anything that anybody ought to live with. I was there. There were two of us that lived in the attic but the rest were all Air Force trainees so, and that was it. The other places that I lived in as an evacuee varied enormously. One was where there were two ladies who used to be in charge of some sort of school or other. Very doctrinaire and didn’t think much of us [laughs] Anyway, but you want Cambridge as well? DE: Yeah. Yeah. Please. RB: Well, I lived the whole time in King’s College, Cambridge. For the first year I was in rooms right next door to the Chapel so I could hear the organ playing and that was wonderful. And it was wonderful too when I had to do fire watching because you could hear the organ coming up through the roof. So that was very good but the conditions were not very [pause] There were three of us in two rooms. We had to share the rooms. We had one little gas fire and we were absolutely frozen the whole time. And, and as far as lectures were concerned for mathematics we had mostly lecturers from London University. For physics we had almost entirely people from Cambridge and those lectures were pretty useless in as much they didn’t tell you about what you should be learning. They were just entertainment as much as anything. For example, we were talking about sound and he had a block of concrete on the front desk and he picked up a piece of wood and dropped it on it. He said, ‘There you are. Noise.’ And then he picked up a series of these wooden blocks and he proceeded to play a tune to demonstrate that in fact noise in fact had got a note to it. Well all very interesting but not much help from the point of view of learning the physics of sound. And the other thing we had to do we were all compelled to do early, early computing. DE: Oh really? Ok. RB: We were forced to do one session a week to learn about cathode-ray tubes and what have you which nobody explained and I didn’t understand a word of it. But there we are. We had to do it. And then we had tutorials also in physics which again were quite useless. For geography I had tutors from my own college and they were good. Very helpful. We did a lot of interesting work including experimental survey work and that kind of thing. So that was good. Anything else you want? DE: I suppose I should ask you what the living arrangements were like at North Creake. I mean you’ve spoken a bit about your time in Japan and on board ship. What was it like at North Creake? RB: Well, I can’t remember the mess very much but the food was good in as much a lot of it was of course related to rationing as what things of that kind. We hadn’t very little butter or things. Stuff of that kind. So when we got on board ship eventually which had got loads of food from other countries one or two people just went stupid and were eating butter and all sorts of things and they made themselves ill. But what was the other thing? Food and —? DE: Well, you know what, you know — RB: The conditions we were — DE: Yeah. RB: Actually living. Well apart from being the Met office which was below the traffic control in a brick built place so it was relatively warm but the actual living area which was a Nissen hut which was, there was nothing there. You just had your bed and your washing kit and that was it. So it was very very basic. Oh, one thing I did do while I was there I got very friendly with the chap who did, I’ve forgotten what it was called but it was a gadget which you simulated flying. DE: Mm Mm? RB: So I’ve forgotten what it was called and I’ve got a — DE: Link trainer. RB: That’s it. DE: Yeah. RB: Well done. Thank you. And so I did have a go on that once or twice and which was interesting because I’d also while I was at university did have a flight in a Tiger Moth and that was great fun. We looped the loop and that sort of thing so I enjoyed that. Anything else? DE: Well, did you fancy becoming aircrew? RB: Sorry? DE: Did you — RB: No. I didn’t. They decided actually that physically I wasn’t really quite fit enough for that. Why I don’t know but there we are. DE: So a couple more questions I jotted down when you were talking earlier. RB: Yes. DE: You said you had Vaccine Fever. I mean in today’s climate I should probably ask you what that was. RB: Well, at the time when I was a kid all my brothers and sister were vaccinated. You know it was a vaccination against flu or whatever. I didn’t have it as a child so they decided I needed to be vaccinated if I was going out into the Far East. So they vaccinated me on board ship and that produced Vaccine Fever. And boy was I hot because the Red Sea was hot enough and I was sweating it out on my own in the, on board ship. So anyway, yes? DE: And the other thing that I’ve jotted down you said you travelled through Hiroshima. RB: Yes. DE: Could you tell me a little bit about what that was like? RB: Well, when I eventually I was stationed in Iwakuni it wasn’t all that far from Hiroshima and I went there two or three times. We were given tins of cigarettes. Fifty cigarettes in a tin. I didn’t smoke but boy did the Japanese smoke. They loved them and so I could barter without any money. Barter these tins of cigarettes for whatever I wanted. As a result I had enough tins of cigarettes to buy the material for my wife’s wedding dress and that was great because it was Japanese silk which was embroidered. And it was things of that kind but the actual town or the city itself was in a very very poor state. There were trams but they had managed to get to work but they went across bridges and you thought God that bridge is never going to support this tram but it did. It rocked and what have you and we got through. The people themselves were quite good. They weren’t, weren’t objecting to us particularly but of course there were a group of people who had been caught by the radiation and they’d collected together and isolated themselves on a little island in, in the inland sea. Oh, and one other thing too while I was there I think it was three earthquakes. One while I was in my officer’s mess, one while I was up in Osaka and another one which took place on the island to the south of us. And that was an interesting experience too. The one in Osaka — [voice calling from distance] DE: There’s someone, I’ll just press the pause because someone has arrived. [recording paused] DE: There was a visitor so I’ve started recording again. Yeah. You were talking about Hiroshima. RB: Yes. As I say there was a group of people who had been caught by this radiation and had isolated themselves and they weren’t pretty to look at either. One day on my off day I was talking to a group and they said, ‘We’re going fishing.’ ‘Oh, I’ll come with you.’ So I went fishing with them and they complained about other fishermen. Fishermen from another island encroaching on their land, on their territory and so we caught them and we took them back and they were, they were sent to jail for for fishing in the wrong area. So that was quite interesting too. Anything else? DE: Well, you said that there was an arson attack and the quarters were burned down. Who? Who was responsible for that? RB: We know that it was Japanese but we have no idea actually who it was. There were actually three arson attacks. One where the fuel for the aircraft used to come in enormous metal barrels they stored there. And there was a whole storage there and somebody set light to that and blew the lot for God knows how long. I mean barrels were shooting up in the air. And there was another attempt to burn down the officer’s mess but that was caught in time to stop it. But it was the second attempt that burned the place down. DE: So this was some resistance to the, to the base. RB: Oh, there were one or two people who did object to our being there undoubtedly. The other interesting little sideline, if you can forgive me for this but when the arson attack took place there were certain of the WAAFs who suddenly disappeared from the officer’s mess back to their own quarters at night [laughs] DE: I quite understand. Yeah. RB: Yes. DE: Yeah. RB: Anything else? DE: I don’t think so. I mean one of my final questions I normally ask is, is what do you think, what’s your opinion on the way the Second World War and the bombing campaigns have been remembered? RB: Been remembered? [pause] Well, I hesitate to say this. There was a programme on the box the other day, I’ve forgotten what it was called but it followed an American aircraft, it was an American film needless to say who’d gone bombing over Germany and got shot up and all sorts of things and just managed to stagger back. There’s no such film for the British. And I find that you know it was the Americans won the war. It’s that sort of attitude. DE: Yeah. RB: And I find that very sad because the number of British people and I include the Australians and the Kiwis and what have you I think that’s a great shame that there’s no appreciation of what went on. I mean we lost a hell of a lot of aircraft. And the design of aircraft too was an interesting issue. I mean the Stirling bomber was a shocker. A terrible thing to land whereas the Lancasters and those they were great. DE: Is there anything else at all that you can think of that you’d like to, to tell me? RB: I shall do when you’ve gone. DE: Of course. Well, I can press pause. If you think of anything else that you’d like to add. RB: No. I can’t at the moment but little snippets keep coming back but I suppose one thing that did bother me quite a bit at North Creake was the maintenance of the aircraft was always done in the open air and the poor devils who had to service the aircraft must have been frozen stiff at times. How they managed it I do not know. DE: But you were there ’44 to ’45 and that winter was really really bad. Yeah. RB: It was a bit grim. DE: Yeah. RB: Yeah. Yeah. But there we are. DE: I suppose as a Met officer you saw that coming and knew quite how bad it was going to be. RB: We didn’t know how bad it was going to be but there we are. So [pause] No. I really, off hand I can’t remember much more. Oh I remember one occasion as that I was going on leave to see my fiancé and of course at that time there was a railway went right through to Wells. DE: Yes. RB: And I got from Wells to the camp of course by van. But I went down to Wells and caught the train to get back to London and I think we got about five miles out of Wells and ran into a snowdrift and the train could not move so we had to get out and walk over the top of the snowdrift to the next station and try and catch a train from there. DE: Oh wow. RB: Which we did and the curious thing is we got to Kings Lynn and when we got to Kings Lynn and travelled south there was no snow. DE: Wow. Ok. RB: Which relates in a way to something that happened long after the war when I was actually teaching in Guisborough. DE: Oh right. Ok. RB: And the staff used to play the Sixth Form at cricket for a day. It snowed in July in the middle of the cricket match. DE: Wow. RB: It’s something peculiar to that area. You know, stuck off the North Sea. So there we are. DE: So you, so you were a teacher after. RB: I came back home and I didn’t want to stay in the Air Force, in the Met Office because at the time you had to move every three years and I think it was about every ten or fifteen years you had to go overseas and I didn’t want my children if I had any to be constantly changing school. So I decided I’d opt out. I went to London Institute and trained as a teacher. I taught mathematics for nearly twenty years and then I became an inspector of schools for a time and I finished up as the senior advisor for further education, adult education, youth service. You name it. Jack of all trades and master of nothing [laughs]. DE: Yeah. Smashing. RB: So there we are. DE: Yeah. That’s marvellous. I’m going to press pause. If you think of anything else you’d like to tell me — RB: Yes. Righto. DE: Just give me a nod. RB: Yes. DE: And I can start recording again but that’s absolutely fantastic. Thank you. [recording paused] DE: So I’ve just started recording again. Yes. RB: There was one occasion when the group from North Creake was required to fly to North Italy to drop Window to prevent any radar or what have you from the Germans as they were coming back north after the invasion of Italy and Sicily. Well of course that meant flying over the Alps which was a very difficult thing for Stirlings and, but they all got there with one exception and he was a squadron leader. He turned back. He couldn’t face it. I quite understand why because the height they were flying the danger of icing was extremely bad but they made it and they did their job. Ok? DE: Yeah. Yeah. Smashing. Thank you. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Roy Berrill Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dan Ellin Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2022-02-23 Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 00:53:53 Audio Recording Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ABerrillR220223, PBerrillR2022023 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1944 1945 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Great Britain England--Cambridgeshire England--Norfolk England--Cambridge England--London Singapore Japan Japan--Iwakuni-shi Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Air Force. Bomber Command Language A language of the resource eng Description An account of the resource Roy was born in Northampton and was evacuated from Becontree in London to Weston-super-Mare. He gained his degree from Queen Mary College, London, which was evacuated to Cambridge. After the Air Training Corps, Roy was called up to be a meteorological officer. Roy trained in Kilburn, and went as a forecaster to RAF Warboys in Cambridge before RAF Wyton and then RAF North Creake. Roy recounts the death of Canadian “Tiny” Thurlow, brought down by friendly fire in Northern France. There were three meteorological officers at RAF North Creake, working shifts. The information recorded was sent to the regional meteorological office whose forecast could not be amended. He attended the aircrew briefing and de-briefing sessions. The 100 Group dropped Window radar countermeasure. Its aircraft were prone to icing. Roy contrasts weather forecasting then and now, particularly with reference to the jet stream. He talks about weather balloons and the readings they took. RAF Docking sent up Hurricanes or Spitfires, fitted with new equipment, to take readings. In 1945 Roy set sail from Tilbury on RMS Strathaird to Bombay, Singapore (RAF Seletar) and then spent nearly two years for the British Commonwealth Occupation Forces at RAF Iwakuni in Japan, passing through Hiroshima. A Japanese man committed hara-kiri and there were three arson attempts by the Japanese. On his return, Roy was promoted to flight lieutenant. After discharge, Roy taught mathematics and, subsequently, became a school inspector and senior further education adviser. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sally Coulter Julie Williams Carolyn Emery Maureen Clarke 100 Group 171 Squadron 199 Squadron bombing childhood in wartime evacuation ground personnel meteorological officer RAF North Creake RAF Warboys RAF Wyton Stirling Window https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/934/36536/MLovattP1821369-190903-75.pdf 51c3fbced3b1e3bd9c7237f2cb79c94a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lovatt, Peter Dr Peter Lovatt P Lovatt Description An account of the resource 117 items. An oral history interview with Peter Lovatt (b.1924, 1821369 Royal Air Force), his log book, documents, and photographs. The collection also contains two photograph albums. He flew 42 operations as an air gunner on 223 Squadron flying B-24s. <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/1338">Album One</a> <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2135">Album Two</a> The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Nina and Peter Lovatt and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-27 2019-09-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Lovatt, P Transcribed document A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document A REMINISCENCE OF THE FLYING CHARACTERISTICS OF MANY OLD TIME AIRCRAFT. BY:- Air Marshal Sir Ralph Sorley, K.C.B. O.B.E. D.S.C. D.F.C. F.R.A.e.S. INTRODUCTION. Since the end of [deleted] [underlined] 19 [/underlined] 34 [/deleted] 1914, when I joined the Royal Naval Air Service I have been fortunate enough to fly as pilot some 170. different types of aircraft as well as handle in the air a few more and to travel as passenger in a number of others. It has occured [sic] to me at this late date and at the age of 73. to try to record my impressions of some, if not all, of these machines as far as my memory will allow. Fortunately it is good and with the aid of my Log Books, in which only sketchy notes were made at the time, and a few books of reference and many photographs I will do my best to highlight the variations and contrasts between one and another, as well as the conditions of flight over these fifty six years. The dates given are those when the type was flown. Although I am not the only one who flew them, many of which were prototypes which never entered service, it is inevitable that opinions may differ about their peculiarities, but I give only my own opinions which I hope may be of interest to some of the past, more of the present, and perhaps a few of future generations. This saga covers mainly the reciprocating engine era, with a few contrasting jet types which followed, and those mostly commercial. I ended my piloting days with introduction of the Jet, but with the unfailing aid of N.E. Rowe. C.B.E. (Nero.) an engineer of great technical integrity first met when technical officer at Martlesham and who in 1943 became my Director General of Aircraft Development, I had something to do with the planning of new type aircraft and engines to suit the sub-sonic and early super-sonic era. In digesting what follows the reader is asked to look for the various yard sticks of progress such as weight, power, speed, climb and materials which mark the amazing strides made during the last sixty years of aviation. I think the text will speak for itself in these matters. Much of my varied experience of aircraft was gained from two postings to the Aircraft and Armament Experimental Establishment, first at Martlesham Heath, Suffolk, 1925 – 27. and later at Boscombe Down, Wiltshire in 1940. These, following a year at Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment, Felixstowe, in 1924, led me along the paths of Designers and Manufacturers from all of which, and from whom, one naturally acquired a lot of practical knowledge. On leaving Boscombe this stood me in good stead when appointed Assistant Chief of Air Staff to the great Viscount [page break] 2. Portal, in charge of Technical Requirements; and thereafter on becoming Controller of Research and Development in the Ministry of Aircraft Production, later called Supply. These thumbnail sketches touch on the aeroplane and only mention their engines, but disregard almost completely the contemporary developement [sic] of all those subsiduary [sic] pieces of equipment which in more recent terms form a ‘weapons system’ of great complexity, which is where we stand to-day. [underlined] DECEMBER 1914. [/underlined] Having been interested in flight since about 1912 as a schoolboy, my first introduction to aeroplanes I could touch and begin to fly was at Eastchurch, when at the tender age of 16, I had been selected as a Probationary Flight Sub Lieutenant and reported there to the Commanding Officer, Major E.L. Gerrard the Royal Marines, I spent my first night sleeping with a real aeroplane in it‘s [deleted] s [/deleted] hanger, so one can say the long marriage was consummated correctly. By the luck of the draw I was allocated to a certain well-known pre-war Australian pilot as my instructor who shall remain nameless, but more of this as the story unfolds. 1 [underlined] SHORT ‘PUSHERS’ – 50 h.p. and 70 h.p. GNOME. Biplane. [/underlined] These were of the S.38. type. They had a span of sixty feet and were therefore very lightly loaded per square foot of wing area. They also had ailerons which were not interconnected but which hung down vertically until sufficient speed had been attained on the ground to lift them up horizontally when they then became effective. They also had a front elevator attached to the nose of the nacelle, but which had little or no effect as such, but was a help in lining up the horizon. They were light on all controls and were pleasant to fly, but with such Iight loading they were liable to bounce into the air at take-off and landing and one had to be very quick to 'blip' the engine into life to save a stall. The one I first learned on was a side-by-side dual control, others had the instructor and pupil separated fore and aft. All were ‘wheel’ [page break] 3. control laterally, and quite light, and whether from inexperience or diffidence of my youth I treated them with great respect. Evidently too great for my instructor who, when I failed to bring up a dropped wing quickly enough to his liking would yank the control over so that we were well over on the opposite bank in a flash. He soon reached the stage actually of standing up in the cockpit and threatening to hit me over the head! After experiencing this performance several times I made bold enough to ask Sir Frank Mclean, who was in charge of instruction whether I could change my instructor. He seemed to understand, and I then went dual with John Alcock who saved my bacon, or there would not have been this to write about. A contrast in personalities. The 50 h.p. and 70 h.p. Gromes had a habit of breaking their connecting rods, and it was not long before I experienced a sound of tearing metal and a quick return to earth. Neither engine lived up to it's horse power rating and at 1100 revolutions a minute one could just stay in the air: 1150 was a bit better, and 1200 was flat out. These engines had no throttle and the art of 'blipping' the ignition on and off by means of a press button switch on the control wheel was difficult near the ground in a light breeze when the aircraft was so easily wafted upwards by the slightest up-current, or as a result of a bounce. On the whole they were nice to fly although underpowered. By accessing the developed horse power of the '50’ at 38 h.p. and that of the ‘70' at 57 h.p. (figures I seem to remember) and taking the all-up weights of the two aircraft as 1380. lbs. and 1490. lbs. respectively, then the weights per horse power work out at 36 lbs. and 26 lbs. which is heavy by any standard. The speed range of the former was 35 to 42 m.p.h. and that of the latter 38 to 57 m.p.h. I quote these figures at the begining [sic] as a contrast to those at the end of the piston engine era, when 8 lbs. all-up weight per horse power was common in 1944. By then too the speed ranges were measured in several hundred miles an hour. This only indicates the vast stride made in the development of aircraft and engines in the intervening thirty years. [page break] 4. 2. [underlined] MAURICE FARMAN LONGHORN. – 70, 80, or 100 h.p. RENAULT. (BIPLANE). 1915. [/underlined] Often known as ‘the flying birdcage' this too was a very lightly loaded machine, with front elevator on curved outriggers much further forward than on the Shorts. It had what was known as a [deleted] s [/deleted] lifting tail and having no tailplane adjustment could become unmanageable if it got into a steep dive. It was a perfect lady in all other respects and literally floated through the air and was pleasant on all controls. The Renault had a crackle of exhaust and could be fully throttled down, and when on the glide there was only the swishing of the wind to be heard through the many wires and struts. Being French the throttle operated in the reverse way to the British, that is to say to open up the power one pulled a sort of door bolt back towards one and to shut down pushed it forward. Quite the opposite to nature or instinct. The cockpit was well protected from the wind and the forward view was excellent. The passenger, or pupil sat higher and behind the pilot and as there was no dual control the most one could do was to lean over the instructor and to put one's hands on the 'spectacles' which controled [sic] the ailerons. This form of lateral control was well ahead of its time, as it [inserted] is [/inserted] almost commonplace nowadays. I remember the finish of the woodwork and how beautifully everything fitted into very small spaces. I see from my book of reference 'The Flying Book end Aviation World Who’s Who’ of 1914 that the all-up weight is given as 1720 lbs. This for the land plane seems a little too much, but see later the seaplane. It wasn't long before I had a forced landing due to the fuel tanks not being filled (no such thing as a cockpit check then) but such a lady gave me no alarum [sic] and we settled like a nesting bird. I may say that in these early years the time of any flight was in minutes, thirty or forty or one hour was a long trip and ten or fifteen was average. 3. [underlined] BLERIOT MONOPLANE. – 80 h.p. GNOME. 1915. [/underlined] I had a flight in this aeroplane piloted by Lieut. Commander Vaughan-Fowler. The view was anything but good and from the pilot's position ahead the wing blanked out any view of the ground almost completely for landing. It was a warped wing control which I was [page break] [inserted] Rewrite [/inserted] 5. unable to feel for myself, but otherwise the aircraft gave one the feeling of frailness. It gave little impression of speed, and all I can say about it is I am glad I did not have to go to war in one, although it had a long history of success in obtaining height, speed, and distance records since 1909, and also it was on this type that the French pilot Pegoud first looped the loop and introduced other forms of aerobatics. 4. [underlined] MORANE LOW WING MONOPLANE. – 80 h.p. LeRhone. 1915. [/underlined] At the same time I had a flight in this aeroplane with much the same effect. Although it seemed faster it was not one well suited for military use and again I was glad I never had to fly one in action. It had a moving tailplane i.e. no fixed surface and thus was very sensitive fore and aft. There was no real space for a passenger who sat with the pilot between his legs and clutched him round the middle. Apart from the fact that it had a distinct rate of climb, and was quick on the lateral warp control it was a very limited purpose machine, but much used for racing pre-war and by the French in war. I took my 'ticket' (Royal Aero Club Certificate No. 1089.) at Eastchurch on the I2th. of February 1915. on a Short pusher No. 63. Age 17. and one month. 5. [deleted] [underlined] WRIGHT BIPLANE. (OGILVIE). – 60 h.p. E.N.V. 1915. [/underlined] [/deleted] Before I go on, perhaps I should describe just what was entailed in obtaining the 'ticket' – that coveted little blue card on which one's photograph and signature had to be appended, for in those days it was, in fact, an aviator's passport, on which is printed in [deleted] three [/deleted] six languages a request:- 'The Civil Naval and Military Authorities including the Police are respectfully requested to aid and assist the holder of this certificate.” It also served the same purpose as does a driving licence, without which one was not licenced to fly. The test required was relatively simple, consisting of flying a [page break] [inserted] Rewrite [/inserted] 6. few figures-of-eight within the confines of the aerodrome, to demonstrate ability to turn right and left: to then switch off the engine and make a vol pIanè from a given height and land on a circle marked out on the ground, the aircraft to come to rest within it. That test of prof [deleted] f [/deleted] iciency was about as enlightening as are our present ‘O’ level tests in proving today one has been educated? 5, [underlined] WRIGHT BIPLANE. (OGILVIE). – 60 h.p. [deleted] E.N.V. [/deleted] [inserted] N.E.C. [/inserted] 1915. [/underlined] I also had a short flight with Alec Ogilvie in this re-vamped Wright which he had altered and re-engined with an [deleted] E.N.V. [/deleted] [inserted] N.E.C. [/inserted] which made a better machine of it. We sat out in the open in front and as far as climb was concerned we did not rise very far off the ground. The engine was running badly and we only did a circuit of Eastchurch aerodrome with wing tips nearly touching the ground in turns. He was one of the founders of Eastchurch and held ‘ticket' NO. 7. 6. [underlined] BRISTOL BOXKITE. – 50 h.p. GNOME. (BIPLANE). 1915. [/underlined] This I flew in (or should it be on) with a fellow pupil as pilot at Eastbourne. It staggered off the ground with two up and had no climb at all. We came face to face with the railway embankment at Polegate which is in the form of a triangle, the embankment being the three sides and the centre being the same level as the surrounding fields. We pulled up over the first side and then sank down almost to ground level in the centre. With barely enough room to gather speed enough to 'hoick' over the next, we just scraped over the rails by inches. Such was the performance of that machine, although the pilot in this instance had something to do with it. He was a cocky type and I feel sure wanted to impress me which he did. 7. [underlined] BRISTOL TRACTOR. – 80 h.p. GNOME. (BIPLANE). 1915. [/underlined] My first tractor, and a delightful machine with a good performance and it handled well on all controls. It was a modified T.B. 8. type fitted with ailerons instead of warp and all machines of this type had a four wheel undercarriage although the nose wheels were only to prevent [page break] [inserted] Rewrite [/inserted] 7. one tipping up on one's nose after landing. It's top speed reached 75. m.p.h. Designed by a Rumanian, Henri Coanda, who had a great eye for a cleanly shaped aeroplane I think it was among the first to attain good performance. If I remember correctly the wing section design incorporated the Philips entry. The weakest part of the design was a balanced rudder without any fin, the rudder post being unbraced as in the first B.E. 2. I see the only twelve of them were built and delivered by October 1914 although the licence was given to build them abroad to Deutsche Bristol-Werke, Halberstadt, and Louis Breguet in France just before the war. As far as I know none were built and the type died as a trainer only when I flew it at Eastbourne. 8. [underlined] MAURICE FARMAN SEAPLANE. – 100 h.p. RENAULT. (BIPLANE) 1915. [/underlined] I went onto seaplanes at Calshot where there was an assortment of various types. The Maurice Farman seaplane differed from the landplane in that it had not the front elevator, and was mounted on two floats made of thin three-ply. These were flat bottomed with no step and it was difficult to 'unstick' because of this, with any load sometimes impossible. One was used for anti-submarine patrol based at Bembridge, Isle of Wight, and there I experienced a very different performance to that of the landplane. The 'observer' sat on the petrol tank behind and carried in it's wooden box a 20 lb. Hales bomb. This he was intended to launch over the side onto the unsuspecting submarine. We had to taxi a long way out into Spithead for take off near the forts, by which time the engine was nearly red hot, consequently what little power there was became even less and in a calm sea and little wind any take off was a speculation. Once in the air there was insufficient power to climb and on one occasion I went from the Isle of Wight to Eastbourne not ever above two hundred feet, so much so that when it came to turning round l had to land because of loss of height. Not a very efficient weapon of war. 9. [underlined] WIGHT PUSHER SEAPLANE. – 160 h.p. GNOME. (BIPLANE) 1915. [/underlined] I should say that none of the seaplanes here described were fitted [page break] 8. with dual control, and one just listened and watched for the differences in handling and flying them on and off the water. This Wight was a type built by Samuel Wight of Cowes, designed by Howard Wright and was no small toy to let a boy of 17 lose on. It must have weighed about a ton and a half and a double row Gnome engine of fourteen cylinders required some strength to start. The proced[deleted]r[/deleted]ure for this was to switch on one half of the engine i.e. seven cylinders, after dopeing them through the valves with neat petrol. One then turned the whole thing by a crank handle at the back of the nacelle. Once it fired you then hurdled over the back seat to reach the pilot’s controls right up front. Once there the immediate action was to switch in the other bank of cylinders and 'blip' until clear of the beach, and if lucky and pointing out into clear water, taxi out. Apart from this weighty and athletic complication, this aeroplane had two other unusual features. The first of these was a double cambered wing; that is to say the top surface had not a single contour on the top, but was intended to be two cambered wings joined together [deleted] ed [/deleted] at mid-chord. This I may say seemed to have no beneficial effect. The other was two very long floats, each of which had no less than three steps on which to plane the water. Because of the great length of these floats one progressed from one step to the other until one got her up on the rear step. By then, in order to keep the forward steps out of the water one was pulling back hard on the elevator control and all of a sudden the thing leapt into the air at an astonishing angle, which required immediate forward push on the control to prevent a bad stall. If too much, then the whole contraption was back on the water again and the same process had to be repeated. Truly a remarkable aeroplane. In the air it felt very much as it looked, a large cumbersome machine, not in this instance under powered but just cumbersome. There was even a worse and more unpleasant Wight, even a bit bigger and heavier with, I believe?, a 200 h.p. Salmson engine. Having the same characteristics but being more cumbersome it was even worse to fly, and my log book says “no likee much – landing rotten." [deleted] 10. AVRO CIRCUIT OF BRITAIN 510 [symbol] 150 h.p. SUNBEAM. (BIPLANE) [/deleted] [page break] 9. 10. [/underlined] AVRO CIRCUIT OF BRITAIN '510' – 150 h.p. SUNBEAM. (BIPLANE) 1915. [/underlined] This was the prototype No. 881 which was purchased by the Admiralty before the War and another five were built thereafter. It was a most pleasant aircraft to fly, and if only the engine had been up to it's job it might have had a bigger future. But it lacked power and as soon as the revs. fell off then there was no performance. In the air it felt right, and my first flight seems to confirm this as it was one of one and a half hours, which for that time was a long flight. With a better engine it would have made production figures. These were days when engine development was at it's earliest stage and Louis Coatalen of Sunbeam's was an early stater [sic] as Aero engine designer. 11. [underlined] SOPWITH CIRCUIT OF BRITAIN TYPE. – CONVERTED AT CALSHOT TO 120 h.p. AUSTRO)DAIMLER (BIPLANE). 1915. [/underlined] A truly delightful aeroplane with, for once, enough power to make things happen. It was a one off machine built for the race and never saw the light of day in Service, nevertheless a good specimen of design and a forerunner of Sopwith development of many military types to come. 12. [underlined] SHORT TRACTOR SEAPLANE. – 135. h.p. SALMSON (CANTON UNNE). (BIPLANE). 1915. [/underlined] I flew this type on joining H.M.S. Engadine early in 1915. As usual all one had was a few minutes flight as a passenger before being pushed off solo. It had flat-bottomed floats and the same drooping ailerons as the earlier Shorts, but in this case one gathered speed sooner than before and so had lateral control almost at once. It was a really good aeroplane and handled easily and responsively for its size. The [inserted]e[/inserted]ngine was on the heavy side for the power but was beautifully designed and made, and very reliable. In many hours of flying them I never had any engine trouble. They were difficult to ‘unstick’ with a full load in a calm but the floats stood up to a pretty pounding without breakage; if anything gave it was chassis struts that bent. Once with a heavy load I careered a long way through a choppy sea with water being thrown right over the engine when in the end the wooden propellor burst, which was not surprising. These aircraft were [page break] 10. embarked in ships which were converted cross-channel ferries and were supposed to operate from open water. This was highly optimistic as there was no weather reporting, and conditions were either too rough or too calm for any certainty of take-off, and it was a highly inefficient way of conducting operations. See later under Sopwith Baby. In addition they were fitted with a wireless set called ‘R[inserted]o[/inserted]uset’. This was mounted on top of the petrol tank and as it had a rotary spark gap revolving in the open making a continuous arc, I always thought it more than dangerous. Many an hour did I spend in helping to overhaul those Canton Unee’s [sic] (one crank on to which a master connecting rod was affixed, with the other rods attached to the web of the master; a lovely piece of work). It was, of course, a French engine but licensed into England to the Dudbridge Iron Works, Stroud. I once did a test with a destroyer going ahead of me pumping oil on to troubled waters to see if by taking off along a path of oiled water we could find it noticeably calmer, but it did not seen to make much difference. These Shorts had no forward or aft firing guns and so were completely defenceless, but they were capable of carrying a few bombs weather permitting. Perhaps at this point I should say how the ground or deck handling of these seaplanes embarked in ships was carried out. First they were stowed folded in a hangar. The latter was a heavy steel structure built on to the qu[inserted]a[/inserted]rterdeck of these small ships, mostly under 2,000 Tons, which then gave them the most dreadful seaworthy characteristics. When folded it was possible to stow about four or five aircraft which could be wheeled out tail first and one at a time on to the quarterdeck. The wings were then spread and locked into position by steel pins which had to be secured from turning to prevent them unscrewing. The engine was run up to test power and afterwards shut down when the pilot and observer took their places. A crane, one on each after corner, was trained over the centre section of the aircraft and the heavy hook attached to a wire sling and the order given to hoist out. Once clear of the deck the aircraft was slung outboard and at the same time turned so that it faced the side of the ship while being lowered down to sea level, and mechanics armed with long bamboo poles fended off the wings from touching the [page break] 11. side. This was fine as long as there was no tide running but if so then as soon as the upstream float [missing letter]ouched the water the wing tended to dig in so one had to be very quick in releasing the hook to allow the aircraft to drift quickly down the ships side. The proceedure [sic] for returning on board was similar in reverse. The machine had to be taxied slowly nose on to the side of the ship until the floats nearly touched it, when the engine was switched off, and if well judged the crane hook would be hanging just over the centre section ready for the pilot to stand up and hook it on to the slings. Easy when not at anchor, but with a tide running past, very good judgement was needed to aim sufficiently up tide to give time to leap up and grab the hook as one drifted past, hook on, and be quickly hoisted up before the tide took charge. 13. [underlined] SHORT TRACTOR SEAPLANE. – 225. h.p. SUNBEAM. (BIPLANE). 1916. [/underlined] This type followed the one above and was a much bigger aeroplane with the biggest engine so far designed, but not more reliable. The machine was somewhere between 60 and 70 ft in span, this time with interconnected ailerons but still with flat-bottomed floats, especially as it was intended to carry a torpedo. It handled very well in the air for such a large aircraft and succeeded the 135. h.p. Canton into Service, which I was sorry to leave as it was less heavy on the hand and I thought a better looking aircraft. 14. [underlined] MORANE PARASOL. – 70. h.p. Le RHONE. (MONOPLANE). 1916. [/underlined] As commented on the [inserted]e[/inserted]arlier Morane in which the wing so obstructed the view of the ground, in this type that had been overcome by raising the whole wing well above the heads of the pilot and observer. It was mounted on a tripod of steel tubes at the centre, called a 'cabane' but still had warp lateral control although an improvement on the original it was not a very effective military machine, but was used quite a lot in France by both British and French. 15. [underlined] SOPWITH MILITARY BIPLANE. – 100. h.p. MONOSOUPAPE GNOME. 1916. [/underlined] As with the above I flew in this aircraft Montrose. It had been [page break] 12. developed from the Round Britain seaplane, by the look of it, and suffered from a poor view and lack of any armament. Unlike most rotary engine Installations which were by a shaft extending aft through one or two bearing plates with the rotating engine overhung, this had one bearing plate at the back and another right in the nose carrying a front extension shaft, with the engine rotating in between them. 16. [underlined] SOPWITH SCHNEIDER – 100 h.p. MONOSOUPAPE GNOME. (BIPLANE) 1916. [/underlined] This was a derivet[deleted]it[/deleted]ive of the original Sopwith Tabloid, which fitted with floats won the Schneider Cup Race at Monaco in 1913. It was fitted with a single float and tested on the Thames at Sunbury or Teddington. It proved unstable on the water and the single float was sawn down the middle and the two halves made into twin floats and mounted on a wider undercarriage. Later, so successful was the type that it was produced in some quantity for the R.N.A.S. I first flew it from Killingholme on the Humber. At that point the river runs out at anything up to 6 knots and we were on the South bank. The prevailing wind was across the river and consequently one took off into wind but across a fast moving current. The effect was as if taking off with a great deal of drift. However if one corrected for drift and turned into what seemed the apparent wind then disaster overtook. One had to ignore the opposite bank of the river and let her rip. The casuality [sic] rate there was not inconsiderable, and it certainly was not an ideal place to instruct anyone on a new type. The 100 h.p. Gnome was insufficient to give it a first class performance but it was a very lively little aeroplane, and very soon a more pleasant type came about as a result of more power being available. 17. [underlined] SOPWITH BABY SEAPLANE. – 110 h.p. or 130 h.p. CLERGET (BIPLANE) [/underlined] Having aileron control [deleted] i [/deleted] instead of warp it was much more pleasant to fly. It had the top centre section cut out above one’s head, in which a Lewis gun was mounted to shoot upwards. The difficulty with this was loading the gun or trying to clear a stoppage it was necessary to look upwards for a time, and on one occasion I went into a spin when doing so. For such a lightly controled [sic] machine strangely it had a wheel [page break] 13. for operating the ailerons. The floats were still of very light construction and in the Engadine we stiffened the bottoms with extra carpentry. But this still left the tail float easily punctured if it should strike the water during landing, which happened to me on two occasions with the result that at the end of the landing run the machine slowly turned over backwards. This weakness was never remedied, for reasons unknown, otherwise it was a first class aeroplane and a joy to fly. The method of starting the engine however was most unpleasant. To do so one had to pull the control column back behind one’s backside and then, bent double in the small cockpit turn the engine by a crank handle. If lucky this might require only slight effort but if, as sometimes happened the darned thing refused to fire one was soon in a bath of perpiration [sic] when dressed in thick flying clothing and it is a wonder there were no cases of pneumonia following. 18. [underlined] FAIREY HAMBLE BABY – 130 h.p. CLERGET. (BIPLANE) 1917. [/underlined] Was a copy of the Sopwith Baby but had full span flaps which could be lowered by a hand wheel for take-off and landing. As far as I could see they had little or no effect except to spoil the otherwise good handling qualities of the type, because the flaps also operated as ailerons over the full span. 19. [underlined] B.E. 2c. – 90. h.p. R.A.F. (BIPLANE) 1917. [/underlined] One of the early types, supposedly inherently stable. I cannot say I noticed its stability except that it was slow on the controls. Unlike the first of the type, the B.E.2., it now had ailerons instead of warp and if stalled [deleted] w [/deleted] was prone to fall into a spin pretty rapidly. Badly windscreened it was very draughty for both pilot and observer (by this time the passenger had come to be recognised as the observer) although the fitting of adequate armament fore and aft had yet to come. Any such was improvised and as the observer was in front of the pilot, nicely wedged in between the planes, his field for any fire was only outwards at about 45 degrees ahead or over the pilots head aft. It was far too sedate for war, and thus got a bad reputation. [page break] 14. 20. [underlined] B.E. 2c. – 90. h.p. R.A.F. (BIPLANE). 1917. [/underlined] A strict derivative of the 2.c. but having only one bay of interplane struts with a big overhung extension of the top plane beyond them; It had a slightly better performance and was a little lighter on control. I thought it a distinct improvement on the earlier type but it fell out of the hand very suddenly if stalled. Again not a good military type but both did valient [sic] service against long odds. 21. [underlined] SOPWITH PUP. – 80. h.p. LE RHONE. (BIPLANE). 1917. [/underlined] This was a classic little fighter, very lightly loaded and very light on control which just sprang into the air and went on going up quite rapidly. It was the first real fighter type designed for the purpose, armed with one Vickers gun mounted in front of the pilot's face and firing through the airscrew. Fitted with a rather clumsy mechanical interrupter gear, which was the forerunner of the much better Constantinesco oil operated system. Developed directly from the original Tabloid but with the requirements of a fighter from the first drawings it was a greatly liked and highly efficient machine, which led the way to the later Camel. [deleted] 24. [underlined] SOPWITH 1 1/2 STRUTTER. – 110. h.p. CLERGET. (BIPLANE). 1917. [/underlined] [/deleted] [deleted] Designed [/deleted] 22. [underlined] SOPWITH CAMEL. – 110. h.p. CLERGET. (BI[inserted]P[/inserted]LANE) 1917. [/underlined] The Camel was the outstanding fighter of the first war, and with superior power over the Pup it was a real war machine. Fitted with two Vickers guns mounted in front of the pilot's face, and Constantinesco interrupter gear it was only rivaled [sic] by the S.E. 5. which came [deleted] some time after it. [/deleted] [inserted] about the same time i.e. end of 1916, [/inserted] It was a joy to fly because of it's quickness on control, but because it was under ruddered it responded to the torque of the engine to the right to such an extent that no rudder at all was needed to turn righthanded, and if given any it went into a right hand spin in a trice. In fact almost full top, or left rudder, was necessary to prevent a spin but so many first comers to the type ended up that way and usually [page break] 15. hit the ground before they realised what had happened. Once that characteristic had been learned there was no quicker or better fighter in manoeuvre. The guns were mounted in a kind of hump which restricted the view of the pilot forward, and he also sat rather too far under the top centre section to give him much view upwards. But in spite of these faults it was either loved or hated by those who flew it. Both constructionally and as a flying machine the Camel was a simple design and being very strong for its weight stood up to a good deal of bad handling. A classic type indeed. 23. [underlined] DE HAVILAND 4. – R.R. 275.h.p. EAGLE. (BIPLANE) 1917. [/underlined] But this too was as great a clasic [sic] in its class as a two-seater day bomber. It was a large aeroplane for its time which had a performance almost as good as a 'Scout'. It could carry a load of bombs, 2 X 230 lbs, and was a dream of an aeroplane to fly. It had fuel for four or five hours and was as reliable as a taxi-cab. I did very many hours on this aeroplane ranging far from base and was never once let down. Those fitted with the B.H.P. engine (Beardmore-Halford-Pullin) were not so good on performance or reliability. This engine was a bitch to start and on one occasion during a long flight round the Aegean I spent about two days before the darned thing would condescend to fire. The very first D.H. 4’s had unbraced tailplanes but after a few fatal accidents the fin and tailplane were braced to each other by double streamline wires. The B.H.P. version was notable for having a four bladed propeller the width of the blades being no more than four or five inches [deleted] wide [/deleted], and I do not recollect seeing any such others. 24. [underlined] SOPWITH 1 1/2 STRUTTER. – 110. h.p. CLERGET. (BIPLANE) 1917. [/underlined] This type was designed as either a two-seater or a single seater, the former was supposed to be a fighter and the latter a bomber. Very soon they were all two-seaters with one Vickers gun firing forward and a Scarf ring for the observer and I think they carried 2 X 112 lbs bombs. The pilot sat in front right under the top centre section but owing to the big stagger he had a very good view downwards over the leading edge of the bottom plane. If I remember correctly there was a glass [page break] 16. panel in the floor of this cockpit marked with adjustable lines, through which the sighting of the bombs was supposed to be done. I don't know if it was used much because of the difficulty of flying the aeroplane with one's head inside the cockpit and steering over an unseen target, hoping it would come into view in the panel at the last moment. They were light on control and very pleasant to fly, and although a largish single bay wing structure, they were strong, and had a relatively good performance. Much used in France and other theatres of war, they followed the earlier traditions of Sopwith and were leaders in their class. In the Aegean where I first flew one, they formed a mobile circus and moved around the Salonica front. 25. [underlined] ALL STEEL HENRI FARMAN. – 135 h.p. SALMSON CANTON UNNE. 1917. [/underlined] [underlined] (BIPLANE) [/underlined]. Equipment of a Greek Squadron in the Aegean. I flew it only once and did not take to it greatly. It was about the first design to be constructed in steel tube and certainly looked cumbersome, and felt so in the air. It was a good weight lifter and somehow pushed itself through the air faster than might be expected. Not many were used by the British and as a type it had a very limited life. I cannot say I enjoyed this experience, especially as the engine stopped dead on the glide down from 3,000 ft and so I had to make a 'dead stick' landing on a not very big aerodrome. 26. [underlined] D.H.9. – 230 h.p. B.H.P.. (BIPLANE). 1917. [/underlined] But a shadow of the D.H. 4. the only improvement being the cockpit arrangement, in that both were close together and further aft clear of the wings. With the early B.H.P. engine there was not the same power and so the splendid performance of the '4' was not repeated. Apart from that it had good handling qualities and carried 2 x 230 lbs. bombs as did the D.H.4. The B.H.P. had been redesigned by Siddeley-Deasy a motor car firm, but that did not increase it's reliability at first and as a bomber it did not score points. However after the war the type was used by Cobham and others in the development of Empire routes and many other commercial uses. The unu[deleted]a[/deleted]sual narrow chord propeller [page break 17. was not used again on the Siddeley Puma, as the B.H.P was renamed, and was fitted with the conventional wide chord two-blad[deleted]d[/deleted]er. In spite of the shortcomings the type was very pleasant to handle. 27. [underlined] D.H. 9a. – 400 h.p. LIBERTY (BIPLANE) 1918. [/underlined] A very superior machine with plenty of power. It had the D.H. 9. layout but with the old D.H. 4. nose and was as agreeable to fly as was the 4. The engine was of American design and to that extent it had coil ignition, a strange inovation [sic] to us accustomed to the original magneto of German origin. This meant that one switched on by two switches, one for starting and one for full advance. The mechanics pulled the propellor round over compression, which was very heavy work, and when just near compression the mystic word ‘contact’ was shouted. At that the pilot switched on one switch and the mechanics, sometimes two or three joining hands, run away with the prop. If lucky the engine fired and the job was over; if not then it could go on and on. But woe betide the pilot who in anxiety or by mistake switched on both switches at once, for if so the engine back fired and the prop. reved [sic] round in reverse and usually hit the arm of the man who was nearest with the result a broken wrist or forearm. The D.H. 9a. continued life in the Service for about 15. years and among it’s many credits was the introduction of the Desert Air Route from Cairo to Baghdad in 1921 and many other operations in Iraq and the North West Frontier. It was a wonderful workhorse. 28. [underlined] F.2a. Flying BOAT. – 2 ROLLS ROYCE 375 h.p. EAGLE (BIPLANE) 1919 [/underlined] This very large type was evolved from the Curtis America and was used from Felixstowe and Yarmouth for long patrols over the North Sea during the first war. It weighed over five tons and had an endurance of over seven hours, so it was most advanced for it's time. I don’t know how many were built but I think not more than one hundred. I flew one after the war and with a span on 83. feet it felt a real ‘cathedral’ to me. I thought it slow on controls and the take off from calm [page break] 18. water could go on for miles before unsticking. Although it did good service and was a successful flying machine it was not my type; I have always prefered [sic] small, or medium sized aeroplanes, and at Felixstowe I devoted my time there to such. 29. [underlined] D.H. 6. – 90. h.p. R.A.F. (BIPLANE) 1917. [/underlined] [inserted] [symbol] [/inserted] Often known as the 'clutching hand’ because of the very pronounced camber of the wings. It was the answer to the instructor’s prayer in those days when pilots were so urgently needed, because it was devoid of vices and you could do with it what you wanted. In fact it was too placid and did not do those things which got you into trouble in most aeroplanes. Designed as a sort of hip bath, the two cockpits were as one, as a result there was the closest contact between the instructor and pupil. I remember one night when teaching my observer to fly we sailed round several aerodromes in the moonlight and each time we came to the Mess we throttled back and floated silently past blowing an old motor horn. Everything about this aeroplane was dictated by cheapness and ease of production; the wings were sawn off square, and the engine left uncowled. It would fly at less than 30. m.p.h. with a top speed of only 75. and was very easy and not unpleasant to fly strangely enough. With this sort of performance it was a simple matter to fly backwards in any wind over 30. m.p.h. and in 1919. this I used to delight in doing up and down Aldeburgh High Street, achieved by just throttling back at the up wind end and opening up at the other. I see that just under 2300. were built and the all-up weight was only a little less at 2027. lbs. It was a unique design typical of De Havilland who always designed functionally and without frills, to achieve the required purpose. 30. [underlined] BLACKBURN KANGAROO. – 2. ROLLS ROYCE 250. h.p. FALCONS (BIPLANE) [/underlined] A large span aircraft, the most notable feature of which was the long protruding nose away out beyond the wings. The pilot felt very isolated and had nothing much in front of him to line up with the horizon. In fact it was one of the earliest forerunners of the present [page break] 19. day pilot's position in big aircraft – miles out in front with the wings hardly in sight behind. This caused the first questioning in my mind (or perhaps bottom) as to how the human can instinctively and instantly adjust itself to the height and angle of the cockpit above the ground. Sometimes one is almost touching the ground with the seat of one's pants (as in light aircraft or gliders) and sometimes sitting twenty feet above it. And yet one can change from one to the other immediately and judge take off and landing with no apparent difficulty or difference. It is just instinctive. Designed as a general purpose seaplane, the floats were too heavy for it, and [inserted] it was [/inserted] used as a land plane for anti-submarine patrols, I can't say more than it felt clumsy and uninteresting, and I am glad I did not fly it operationally. 31. [underlined] AVRO 504. – GNOME, LYNX, LUCIFER, RENAULT, etc. (BIPLANE) 1919. [/underlined] The classic of all training aircraft. Although designed as early as 1913, it never developed into an operational type except in a small way at the outbreak of the War but became the standard trainer. It introduced the Gosport method in 1915/16. devised by SMITH-BARRY, the foundation of pilot instruction ever since. In competent hands it was possible to do any manoeuvre, and I only wish I had been so properly instructed by going through an instructors course. One could not but love the responsive controls, and these held good whatever engine was installed, and thes[inserted]e [/inserted] were many. I think it was a better machine with the Gnome than with some of the others because the Gnome was smother [sic] and gave it some of it's great character. I remember being given experience of up-side down flight at the hands of Captain Hinchcliffe (a pilot who then had but one eye, and who later on was to be one of the early casualties of flying the Atlantic) and unused as I was to gravity affecting me as it did, proceeded to slip through the belt round my waist and nearly deserted ship. Amazed as I was to do banked turns inverted I cannot say I enjoyed that experience. 32. [underlined] HANDLEY PAGE V/ 1500. – 4. R.R. 350 h.p. EAGLES (BIPLANE) 1919. [/underlined] [page break] [inserted] [symbol] [/inserted] 20. This experience was gained in the tail turret of what was then a gigantic aeroplane and apart from marvelling at the way in which such a vast contraption handled: to say nothing of the effect it had on the bathers on Margate beach when flown at no feet: I cannot give any constructive comments on the type. 33. [underlined] BRISTOL FIGHTER. – R.R. 275 h.p. FALCON (BIPLANE) 1919/23. [/underlined] THIS outstanding aeroplane I first met in No. 24. Squadron at Croydon doing VIP Communication flights, and it was a type to which one could become affectionate from the outset. It had no vices and a performance which at the time was achieved with great ease. I cannot remember any feature which was dislikeable and little did l but know it, I was to do many hundreds of hours on it over the deserts and mountains of Mesopotamia, Kurdistan, Palestine and Trans-Jordan and it never let me down. It was on this aircraft that I made the grave mistake of taking my rigger up on my tail-plane to a height of 1500. feet – quite by accident – and returning us all to earth complete in one piece during 1920. But that is another story. This mistake was repeated by two other pilots, on a Spitfire and Lysander, twenty years later during the Second War. A truly great type. 34. [underlined] R.E. 8. 160 h.p. R.A.F. (BIPLANE) 1920. [/underlined] In the hot climate of Mesopotamia it proved to be a better aircraft then I had been led to believe from earlier hearsay. If anything the rapid stall became a little more rapid and had to be guarded against carefully; and the air cooled engine certainly did not like the high temperature and seized up engines could force land one in very unpleasant places, especially with an Arab Rebellion underneath. Nevertheless until we were re-equipped with Bristol Fighters they did a remarkable work horse job from Persia to the Persian Gulf and up the Euphrates at Abu Kamal against the Syrian incursion. [page break] 21. 35. [underlined] BRANDENBURGER SEAPLANE. – 260. h.p. BENZ. (MONOPLANE). 1924. [/underlined] A German aeroplane much used by them to attack shipping off our North Sea Coast. After the armistice one was retained at Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment, Felixtowe [sic] . It was delightful to fly having a perfect view for pilot and rear gunner, and its big thumping engine pulled it through the air very gracefully. It had long strut-braced floats which unstuck quickly and easily and all controls were Iight and well harmonized. I gave it full marks as a sea plane and it was a real pleasure in the air. 36. [underlined] ATALANTA FLYING BOAT. – 2 R.R. 600. h.p. CONDORS. (BIPLANE) 1924. [underlined] A very large and cumbersome flying machine with a power loading somewhere above 20. lbs per h.p. As at the time I had decided that flying boats of this kind were not my particular cup of tea, I'm afraid I experienced it only as a passenger and took little real interest in it. 37. [underlined] FAIREY 3. D. – 450. h.p. NAPIER LION. (BIPLANE). 1924. [/underlined] A good general purpose aircraft usually operated on floats and robustly developed from an earlier version, and the forerunner of the Fairey 3.P. This too appeared first on floats, but later was adopted as a general purpose land plane on which I did many hundred[deleted]e[/deleted]s of hours based on Aden. Both these types had wing flaps which made lateral control heavy when in the lowered position for landing, but apart from that the 3. F. particularly had a very good performance and withstood a great deal of overload without showing much objection. One of the best General Purpose types introduced into the Service which did much of the route proving throughout Africa and Southern Arabia and the type which established Dick Fairey in big business. 38. [underlined] PARNALL PLOVER AMPHIBIAN. – 400. h.p. BRISTOL JUPITER. (BIPLANE). 1924. [/underlined] A nice little fighter type on floats, although in the air it felt rather flimsy and the centre section bracing slakened [sic] in any manoeuvre. [page break] 22. The amphibian feature was rather more in name than in substance, being only a small wheel which protruded a few inches below the keel of the floats and was quite useless for any aerodrome work. The type was an ende[inserted]v[/inserted]our to capture the Fleet Air Arm market but it did not succeed in competition against the Fairey Flycatcher. 39. [underlined] SUPERMARINE SWAN FLYING BOAT. – 2. 450. h.p. NAPIER LIONS. (BIPLANE). 1924. [/underlined] Mitchell’s first attempt at a twin-engined boat and I am not sure what market he had in view. It was a novel conception in that the hull had a vertical stem like a trawler and the pilots sat high up on top of the hull between the two engines; the interior was therefore unobstructed for passengers or any other load. It was quite delightful to fly and no longer the soggy cumbersome sort of flying boat I had experienced previously. However it soon appeared that it had little or no future although aerodynamically it was a big step forward. It was during the time that we were testing it at Felixtowe [sic] that one got to know Mitchell and his way of thinking which was to be a great asset to me later on at the time of the Spitfire. To follow the Swan he had ideas for what was to be the successful Southampton boat which did valiant work when later introduced into the Service and a Flight of four of them made the pioneer journey from England to Singapore; round Australia and back to Singapore and Borneo to Hong-Kong in 1927/8. 40. [underlined] VICKERS VALENCIA. – 2 R.R. 600. h.p. CONDORS. (BIPLANE). 1924. [/underlined] In competition with the Atalanta and just as cumbersome and underpowered and really had no future. It was tested with a C.O.W. gun mounted in the nose with the idea of shooting downwards at submarines, and if I remember correctly the gunner traversed this weapon when aiming on the bow or beam by standing on a little foot-rail completely outside the hull. An alarming experience to watch let alone perform. I did not fly this type. 41. [underlined] FAIREY FLYCATCHER AMPHIBIAN. – 400. h.p. ARMSTRONG JAGUAR. (BIPLANE). 1924. [/underlined] [page break] [symbol] 23. It was adopted by the Fleet Air Arm as their fighter. A more ungainly shape one could hardly imagine, the fuselage being broken-backed with a massive undercarriage for it's [deleted]s[/undeleted]size. However it was a pleasant aircraft to fly and did rather better than it looked. I flew the type as a seaplane and a land plane and of course the latter made a big improvement. Like the Plover it too had a small wheel protruding through the keel of the floats which only made the process of unsticking from the water more difficult. Just in order to see what use this [deleted] this [/deleted] amphibian device could be used for I made one attempt to take the aircraft off through the hangar and out through the front doors over the slipway at Felixstowe to show that it could be used on a concrete floor or deck in this way. Alas, my Squadron Commander caught me in the act of preparation, and that test was not done. 42. [underlined] ARMSTRONG WHITWORTH SISKIN. – 400 h.p. JAGUAR (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] At Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment. 1925/27. An all metal fighter (except for fabric coverings) which had evolved in various stages of development at Farnborough by the end of the war, but had been completed when Fred Green joined Armstrong's. It was no more elegant looking than was the Flycatcher, but was very manoeuvreable [sic] and had a good performance in spite of its ungainly shape. I can testify to its strength as I had the unpleasant experience in a dual-controlled version of spinning first one way and then the other and finally inverted through 9,000 ft of cloud and then had time to straighten things up after breaking cloud mostly on my back at 1,000 ft. A further developement [sic] was the Siskin IIIs with a supercharged Jaguar on which we attained a full load ceiling of 30,000 ft for the first time. This was done with highly inefficient liquid oxygen equipment, equally inefficient heating for hands and feet, and with an outside temperature of minus 60 degrees Centigrade in an open cockpit. Sir John Siddley the engine maker wrote a short letter of thanks! In order to show the improvement the supercharger gave to the aircraft we did a freak climb with no load and attained 10,000 ft in four minutes, and 20,000 ft in just over eight minutes – a record rate of climb for those days. [page break] 23. [duplicated page number] 43. [underlined] GLOSTER GREBE. – 400 h.p. JAGUAR. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] One of Folland's little beauties, like the Siskin it had grown through the development of the Nighthawk and previous Farnborough designs in which Folland had a big hand. Now chief designer at Gloster Aircraft he began a new sequence of fighters developed from the Grebe. It was a true delight to fly and made it's imprint on the Royal Air Force in a few Squadrons and was much loved. 44. [/underlined] HAWKER CYGNET. – 30 h.p. ANZANI-A.B.C. OR CHERUB. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] The first of Camm’s master pieces. The plan-form was a miniature lay-out which proved to be the foundation of many of his later designs. It was a glorious toy and from it I learned the first essential of pure gliding, because one day the propeller disappeared over my right hand top plane and I found myself with a screaming engine and no propulsion. The crank shaft had sheared completely and having stopped the engine from flying apart, I made my way downwards towards an open field. As the thing flew at almost no miles per hour it seemed to take an awful long time to reach ground level, but in turning to and fro on the final approach I must have let the speed increase to the dangerous level of about 30. m.p.h. and consequently floated too far across the field to avoid the nose coming to rest in the opposite hedge. I am glad to say with no damage except to my own nose, and regretfully that is the full extent of my gliding experience. Designed in 1924 for the Light Aeroplane Trials at Lympne, had it not suffered engine trouble it was in a class of its on and considering that it weighed only 798. lbs with two people and fuel it was indeed a marvel. 45. [underlined] D.H. 53. – 30. h.p. TOM TIT. (MONOPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] Another of the best of the light aeroplane types. Lovely to fly but of no commercial use, so D.H. thought, having no margin of load or performance, nevertheless a few were accepted for the Service to try out ab initio training on them. This formula of light weight and [page break] 24. very low power proved to be wrong which led D.H. to design a much more sensible aeroplane – the Moth. 46. [underlined] AVRO AVIS. – 30. h.p. TOM TIT. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] Also for the same competition and also inadequate. Although this one was designed later than the Avro Monoplane type 560 described below, and although the power allowed had been increased, it was still underpowered and of no use commercially. A nice little toy and we at Martlesham all enjoyed flying it, but mostly without a passenger. However like the D.H. 53. it led to the Avro Avian on the same lines as the Moth. This whole conception of what might sell as a useful civil type for travel or sporting activities was quite impracticable as there was not enough performance to safely meet either requirement. All these light aircraft types were designed round glorified motor-cycle engines of 600 c.c. to 1500 c.c. and they certainly churned out a lot of power at high revs for a great deal of unreliability. 47. [underlined] MARTINSYDE. F.4. – 400. h.p. JAGUAR. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] One of the war-time F.4.’s re-engined and made into a beautiful aeroplane although large in size for a fighter by contemporary designs. It was never put forward as a Service type but was on offer for foreign sale by Aircraft Disposals who had hundreds left over from the war. I always wonder why some foreign government did not acquire them as at the time it was quite outstanding with this engine. 48. [underlined] AIRCRAFT DISPOSAL CO. AVRO 4. – 140 h.p. AIRDISCO. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] A good old 504 re-engined with a V.8. engine made out of old Renault parts. It certainly brightened up the performance but I cannot say it was an improved aircraft over the original. It was not a winner as I do not think any were sold. 49. [underlined] AVRO MONOPLANE. – 30.h.p. TOM TIT. 1925. [/underlined] Another of the light aeroplane contestants previous in time to the Avro Avis and being thoroughly underpowered like all the rest was [page break] 25. just a bit of fun held together with sticking per and gum. [symbol] 50. [underlined] A.N.E.C. – 30. h.p. TOM TIT. (MONOPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] Yet another of these miniatures and by far the most interesting and entertaining. So it deserves quite a description. It was a single seater in which the pilot was fed into his cockpit through the centre section of the monoplane wing which was then closed down and fastened over his head. His view was then only to either side the dashboard blanking out any ahead. His bottom was very close to the ground as the two wheels were attached to the underside of the fuselage which had no undercarriage struts at all. It had a moving tailpIane, that is there was a no fixed stabilizing surface at all. The result was the most sensitive fore and aft control ever experienced and by breathing [symbol] in or breathing out it was so light on the stick that the little aircraft either leapt upwards or dived before one realised that the stick had been moved at all. The entrancing result of this was to watch it take off in a series of ups and downs which we soon christened 'pints'. Thus anyone even remotely heavy handed who was allowed to fly the aircraft was judged by the number of pints he drew before becoming master of his emotions. On one such occasion when lent to a certain friend, he disappeared into the distance beyond a belt of trees while still busily drawing off pints, until on failing to reappear again a search party found him completely upside down on top of a haystack and fortunately with no damage whatsoever. As there was no way of getting out except through the roof it was neccessary [sic] to lift the aircraft off the pilot. Those who had the joy of flying this unique machine were entered as members of the 'pint club' the subscriptions for which were enjoyed in the Mess. 51. [underlined] BEARDMORE WEE BEE. – 36 h.p. CHERUB (MONOPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A development of the same theme only this time a two seater whereas the A.N.E.C. was for one only and lucky at that. The layout for entry and exit to the cockpits was the same but fortunately in this machine a fixed tail-plane had been designed to overcome the great fore and aft [deleted] ensit [/deleted] sensitivity. Nice to fly but no future. [page break] 26. 52. [underlined] RAYNHAM LIGHT AEROPLANE. – DOUGLAS. (MONOPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] Of all of them this one had less power than any, being a boosted standard motor-bike engine, and had nothing to recommend it in any way. 53. [underlined] PARNALL PIXIE I. – 30. TOM TIT. (MONOPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] Another toy completely under powered as usual. The majority of this class had top speeds about sixty or seventy m.p.h. and might be coaxed up to ceilings below 10,000 feet if one had the time and inclinati[missing letters] 54. [underlined] PARNALL PIXIE III. – 30 h.p. CHERUB. (MONOPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A curious development of the earlier Pixie I. in that when installin[missing letter] more power they at the same time designed to be either a monoplane or biplane by the simple expedient of attaching a short upper wing. While it flew reasonably well as a monoplane the additional weight did not justify the alternative and like the rest, fun but no future. 55. [underlined] HAWKER WOODCOCK. – 400.h.p. JUPITER. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] An early post-war night fighter design by one Captain Thompson, before the days of Carter or Cam at Hawkers, but inherited by each. It was a viceless aeroplane although in its early stages a little flimsy. Nevertheless it was adopted by the Service in small numbers and later developed for the Danish Airforce as the Danecock. As a type it required a great deal of redesign before it was fully satisfactory, and although I enjoyed flying it later on in the Air Ministry Race at the 1927 Hendon Display it really was not an exciting aeroplane. 56. [underlined] GLOSTER GAMECOCK. – 400.h.p. JUPITER. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] A grown-up Grebe from the same stable and a really efficient fighter with a speed range of 49.m.p.h. to 153.m.p.h. maximum with a service ceiling of about 25,000. ft. I flew this type in the 1925 Hendon Display at which I was presented to His Majesty King George V in the experimental park. The following incident occured [sic] when His [page break] 27. Majesty enquired the performance of my aircraft. On being told the above figures he turned round to Queen Ena of Spain, who was accompanying him, and while beating a tattoo on the cylinders of my engine with his gold-mounted ebony stick, exclaimed "Ena, Ena, 150 miles an hour - - - bang, bang, bang, - - - 25,000. ft!” This type went into Service and was much liked but unfortunately became prone to wing flutter a nasty new pestilence that reared its ugly head at that period. This was overcome in due course and led Folland on to better things. [inserted] [symbol] [/inserted] 57. [underlined] BLACKBURN DART. – 450.h.p. NAPIER LION. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] A Fleet torpedo dropper nearly as clumsy as an elephant but controlable [sic] . As with so many aircraft designed to meet Naval requirements, they were cluttered up with everthing [sic] except the kitchen stove; usually of appalling aerodynamic shape; and consequently much down on performance. This comment does not refer particularly to the Dart but will perhaps be repeated as other Naval types are mentioned. The Dart had a ceiling of 10,000. ft which it attained in 37 minutes – hardly a rapid rate of climb – and a maximum speed of 90.m.p.h at that height. It was one of a number competing for an order which it won. 58. [underlined] FAIREY FAWN. – 450.h.p. NAPIER LION. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] A design to replace the General Purpose [deleted] the [/deleted] D.H.9.A. Very broadly evolved from the Fairey 3.D. It had the usual Fairey full-span flaps, and to meet a spasm of new safety requirements, all the petrol had to be carried externally in bulky tanks which protruded above the top plane. The biggest effect this had was to ruin any performance which the aircraft was likely to have, nevertheless it was ordered into Service for a few Squadrons. Not one of the best choices. 59. [underlined] BRISTOL BLOODHOUND. – 400.h.p. JUPITER. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] Designed as a Bristol Fighter replacement it had a speed of 125.m.p.h. and a ceiling of about 18,000. ft. It was one of the first types to have Frise ailerons which gave it rather a spongy feel, but they were very effective. The whole wing bracing seemed a bit on the light side and [page break] 28. indeed after a quite normal touch-down at Henlow the centre section bracing wires snapped and I found myself finishing the landing run with the whole of the top planes staggered forward on to the top of the engine. A very elegant arrival on a strange station! 60. [underlined] BLACKBURN BLACKBURN. – 450.h.p. NAPIER LION. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] Commonly known as the Bull. Another of the Navy’s inelegant contraptions, it had been devised from the Dart, but had a cockpit for two perched on top of the engine just in front of the top plane, and from the front making the nose shape look exactly like a bull's head. It was heavy and unmanoeuvreable [sic] and I do not believe that any subsequent aircraft were built. While mentioning animals I should also remember that with the introduction of the Napier Lion the service representative who travelled round units attending to its early teething troubles, became known as 'the lion tamer'. He was not the only one, for each engine and aircraft manufacturer had similar representatives and often they worked day and night to keep their products working satisfactorily in competition with the other. 61. [underlined] BLACKBURN BLUEBIRD. 36 h.p. BLACKBURNE. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A side-by-side dual controlled afterthought of the Light Aeroplane Trials, heavy for the type, [deleted] s [/deleted] thus hopeless, but later I believe re-engined with a much more powerful Genet with w[inserted]h[/inserted]ich it made one or two long flights in Africa. There is actually this one in existence today. 62. [underlined] AVRO ANDOVER. – 600 h.p. R.R. CONDOR. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] Designed as a light troop carrier, alternatively an ambulance. It was a large ungainly aircraft weighing the best part of six tons relying on a single engine, in spite of that it was quite gentlemanly to fly with the pilot perched forward behind the engine and just in front of the upper wing. It could carry 12. people or 6. stretcher cases and apparently was thought of for use on the Cairo-Baghdad route; tried by lmperial Airways and found wanting. [page break] 29. 63. [underlined] BRISTOL BROWNIE. – 36 h.p. CHERUB. (MONOPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] Yet another of these Light Aircraft, this time an attempt to build in metal as well as wood and with the pious hope it might be suitable to the Service as a primary trainer. But again at full load it was hopelessly underpowered taking 53 minutes to reach a ceiling of 8500 ft. It was pleasant to fly as a single seater but quite inadequate to be taken seriously, although it won several money prizes in competitions. 64. [underlined] FAIREY FOX. – 400 h.p. CURTISS D.12. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] An outstanding aeroplane which was to have a big influence on British design. Fairey had long been an advocate of building a really clean bomber, and the frightful shape aquired [sic] by the Fawn had driven him to America to try to show up the errors of bad streamlining. There he bought the rights to build the Curtiss D.12. engine, which at the time had the smallest frontal area for it's power of any power plant. He also aquired [sic] the rights to manufacture a twisted metal airscrew which became known as the Fairey-Reed. Having invested his own money in what he felt was right he then designed around this engine and propeller a beautifully clean bomber capable of carrying 500.lbs. of bombs. While the pilot’s view was not all it might have been, as he sat concealed behind the engine with a long flat nose streatching [sic] in front of him, however it certainly had a fine performance of just under 160 m.p.h. at ground level and 127. at it's ceiling of 18000 ft. Being an ungeared engine, take off seemed longer than usual and touch down at 65/67. rather faster. Except for the rather cramped space for the pilot and gunner the design was a step in the right direction and the Curtiss acted as a spur to Rolls Royce in their design of their Falcon engine of the same period. The Fox was accepted into Service in very small numbers and gave much pleasure as well as controversy. For instance, Fairey's insistence in making [deleted] h [/deleted] the nose flat along the top was not so effective in reducing resistance as was the drooped shape adopted by Cam in most of his Hawker types, which also gave the pilot a very much better view. [page break] 30. 65. [underlined] GLOSTER GORCOCK. – 450 h.p. NAPIER LION (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A development of the Gamecock, with either a direct drive or geared engine. While it had a slightly increased speed, the heavier engine resulted in a rather sudden stall and when demonstrating at the Hendon Display I found it very prone to stall on top of a loop. It had a cylindrical radiator underslung between the undercarriage struts, which I am sure did no good to the aerodynamic cleanliness and the type was not adopted as a follow on to the Gamecock. 66. [underlined] VICKERS VIRGINIA. – 2. NAPIER LIONS. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] The standard night bomber in service for a good many years, much grown up from the Vimy, it lumbered into the air at a remarkably low speed and continued to lumber through the air until it lumbered back to earth again. It was characterised by having very large wing area enabling it to carry a big load for a long time, but having said that it could neither be praised for looks or performance. I am glad I never had to serve in a Virgina squadron. In those days all landings were made with engines throttled right back and any pilot seen to use any power to assist his landing was said to ‘rumble' That silly practice was a hang over from the days of unreliable engines, so the pilot must always be ready to land without engine. A costly form of training carried on far too long, and many were the aircraft written off as a result. 67. [underlined] VICKERS VANGUARD. – 2. 600 h.p. R.R. CONDOR (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] One of a series of passenger and troop carrying aircraft evolved from the old Vimy, through the Vernon with two Lions, which type showed well during the opening of the Cairo-Baghdad air route. That type grew into this very much larger one, the Vanguard, I suspect with [deleted] an [/deleted] an eye on commercial sales, but I do not think it succeeded. This in turn was soon converted into the Victoria which was adopted by the Service as an effective troop carrier superceeding [sic] the old Vernon. None of these did I fly. [page break] 31. 68. [underlined] BRISTOL TRAINING & TAXIPLANE. – 120 h.p. LUCIFER (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A nice gentlemans aeroplane, not adopted by the Service being a bit underpowered although used by Bristol's in their own flying Schools as one might naturally expect. As a Taxi it lacked the power to carry a pilot and two passengers. 69. [underlined] ARMSTRONG AJAX/ATLAS. – 400 h.p. JAGUAR. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A private venture Army Co-Operation Type put forward to take over from the Bristol Fighter, which it did in due course. It was quite an elegant aeroplane which performed it's functions well, having a ceiling of nearly 21000. ft. attained in only 35 minutes and a sea level speed of 142 m.p.h. Quite a step forward for the Army Co-Operationist's. 70. [underlined] BRISTOL BOARHOUND. – 400 h.p. JUPITER. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] Another private venture competitor against the Atlas but it’s flying qualities were not nearly as good as they might be and it had a generally ill-defined clumsiness. There was also in this Competition the D.H. Hyena and the Vickers Vespa. 71 [underlined] VICKERS VIXEN. – 450 h.p. NAPIER LION. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] Also a competitor against the Atlas and I believe a development of an earlier type, the Valpariso. The Vixen, although very pleasant to fly was not as handy for the Army Co-Operation job as the Atlas. It remains in my memory as causing the first con-trail any of us had ever seen, when flyin [sic] at or about it’s ceiling and that can't have been more than 20,000 ft. Viewed from the ground we all thought the aircraft was on fire but as it continued steadily on it’s way that was fortunately not the case. Then perhaps it might be either a leaking fuel tank or a boiling radiator, but when the machine eventually landed and we questioned the pilot anxiously he assured us that none of these things had occured [sic]. In fact we had observed the first phenomenon of what now a days is a common occurance [sic]. 72. [underlined] HAWKER HORSLEY. – 600 h.p. R.R. CONDOR. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A rather large and unresponsive aircraft, which when I flew it caused us to comment on a sluggish lateral control. It entered Service [page break] 72. (continued) and proved to be a very versatile torpedo-bomber. Indeed it carried 1,000 lbs. of bombs or a torpedo weighing 2150. lbs. with comparative ease. It was also used to attack the world distance record in 1927. achieving 3420. miles on the same day as Lindbergh flew for New York to Paris covering 3590. miles, so the record for Britain lasted only a few hours. It can be said that the Horsley was a good step forward from the unpopular Fawn, which it replaced and far [deleted] exce [/deleted] excelled. [page break] 32. 73. [underlined] BREGUET XIX. – 460 h.p. RENAULT. (BIPLANE) 1925. [/underlined] A bomber type much used by the French in which they set up a number of long distance records of many thousands of miles non-stop. So famous did the type become that we had one at Martlesham to test in this country and my comments on flying it were anything but complementary “Lord help the Frenchman”; literally solid on lateral control while fore and aft nearly as sensitive as the A.N.E.C. View bad on eye level and ‘buckets’ on landing and take off”. Not a good impression. As was the French custom the throttle opened in the reverse direction to our own i.e. to open up the engine one pulled the lever backwards towards one, and vice versa to shut it down. This led to it’s early demise when on a winter day on an icy tarmac a mechanic ran up the engine, and when the chocks began to slip he promptly pulled the throttle back, only to crash full into the hangar doors w[deleted]h[/deleted]ith it. I don't think that aeroplane was ever repaired. A Grave error! 74. [underlined] D.H. MOTH. – 60 h.p. CIRRUS. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] The epic outcome by De Havilland of the inadequate designs entered for the earlier Light Aeroplane Trials. D.H. decided that nothing less than 60 h.p. would produce a usable aeroplane, and with the help of Halford then with Aircraft Disposal Company designing a little vertical four cylinder engine, the components of which were made up of bits and pieces of old 70 h.p. Renaults left over from the war, the first of the great Moth family was born. It flew beautifully and even better when the Cirrus II & III gave it a little more kick. From then on the Moth was to prove a world beater, and provided a mount for many of the great individual pilots who used them to make long distance record flights across the world – Any Johnson – Lady Bailey – Jean Batten, to name but a few. The Moth was the foundation on which the great De Havilland Company was built up after the [inserted] first [/inserted] war. The design was essentially simple and therefore of low co[deleted]a[/deleted]st and there were no frills, even the air speed indicator being a spring operated gauge a[deleted]c[/deleted]ctuated by the pressure of the air on a flat plate. This policy of simplicity enabled it to sell below £1,000, and with a slightly uprated Gipsy engine well over a thousand aircraft were built. [page break] 33. Like very many others I flew Moths over the course of years in various parts of the world, but I think one incident is worth recording. While in Aden I was caught out by a sand storm when returning from an up-country landing ground. It became so dense that there was only just time to get back on the ground as best I could, which happened to be in a dried-up wadi. As the wind was blowing so hard it entailed landing the aeroplane in full flight and yet at no ground speed. Having successfully accomplished that arrival, and crouched underneath the plane eating and breathing solid sand for an hour or so, the storm passed on and only then did I see that one tyre had evidently been punctured. With the very limited run available to get out of the wadi I decided to deflate the other tyre rather than risk a swing on take-off. The dear Moth come off with hardly any run and landed back at Khormaksa on two rims, and with not a little consternation at being long overdue. 75. [underlined] PARNALL POSSUM. – 450.h.p. NAPIER LION. (TRIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] A very ambitious piece of unorthodox design being a triplane in which the engine was mounted internally on top of the fuselage driving on either side a propeller driven by shafts and gearing along the leading edge of the centre plane. In spite of its novelty it flew quire well, but I suspect that the weight penalty of the engine and propellor installation left very little for military load, and it was never subsequently developed for Service or other use. 76. [underlined] D.H. HYENA. – 400.h.p. ARMSTRONG JAGUAR. (BIPLANE). 1925 [/underlined] Another contestant against the Atlas for Army Co-operation requirements. Although a delightful aeroplane to handle, it was unsuccessful in that competition, and following on the same fate as the earlier D.H. Dormouse in the two-seater fighter reconnaissance trials D.H. began to lose interest in Military designs. 77. [underlined] HAWKER HORNBILL. – 600.H.P. R.R. CONDOR. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] A very fast single seater fighter design with a direct drive engine, but unfortunately was directionally unstable resulting in a continuous [page break] 34. hunt on the rudder. This deficiency of rudder and fin area also made steep turns difficult to execute at high speeds. It was a remarkably clean aeroplane but there was little room in the cockpit for pilot movement. Its performance however was outstanding for the time, being 187.m.p.h. at sea level with a stalling speed of only 64.m.p.h., a very fine speed range and being Cam’s first [inserted] new fighter [/inserted] military design with Hawkers it was certainly very impressive. No doubt a little disappointing to him that it did not go into Service. In the Hornbill one could see the same plan form as the Cygnet and the forecast conception of many types to come. 78. [underlined] D.H. 54. HIGHCLERE. – 600.h.p. R.R. CONDOR. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] A fourteen passenger civil single-engined aircraft, somewhat before its time, weighing 11,000.lbs. with a power weight ratio of 18 1/2. lbs. per h.p. which did not make a very attractive proposition. My comments were "Very lumbering with full load and rank bad at taxi-ing. It did not go beyond the prototype stage. 79. [underlined] HAWKER HERON. – 400.h.p. JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE). 1925. [/underlined] The Heron was Camm’s follow on to the earlier Woodcock, with which it had a superficial resemblance having a tubby fuselage but its outstanding difference was in the metal construction introducing the well-known square-ended tubular structure. This form of construction was used in every Hawker type for many years to come. In spite of very satisfactory performance, a maximum speed of 156.m.p.h. and a rate of climb to 10,000.ft in 5 1/2 minutes, this type was never adopted. The Moth and the Heron both introduced differential control on fairly large ailerons fitter to either top or bottom plane only. 80. [underlined] VICKERS VESPA. – 400.H.P. BRISTOL JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE). 1926. [/underlined] This was Vickers competitor against the Atlas, and was a very large span aeroplane with excellent control down to a stall at 40.m.p.h. with a top speed of 118.m.p.h. With its very high aspect ratio performance at altitude was excellent [page break] 35. but as altitude was not the criterion for Army Co-operation work it is strange to see why Vickers adopted this lay out. However the Vespa made its mark in the world by attaining the [inserted] height [/inserted] record for Britain at 43,976.ft with a Pegasus S.3. engine on the 16th September 1932 piloted by Cyril Uwins – Bristol’s test pilot. With its light controls the aircraft gave one an im[deleted]m[/deleted]pression of floating about through the air in rather a big aeroplane. 81. [underlined] HANDLEY PAGE HANDCROSS. – 600.h.p. R.R. CONDOR. (BIPLANE). 1926. [/underlined] A competitor as a torpedo-bomber against the Horsley but not nearly such a good aeroplane. I note from my log-book that I likened the handling of this aeroplane to that of seven furniture vans; from which I presume it was a bit heavy on the hand! 82. [underlined] SOPWITH SNIPE. – 230.h.p. BENTLEY 2. (BIPLANE). 1926. [/underlined] Although this was a 1917 vintage fighter I had not flown one before this at Martlesham. It was most curious to go back to flying behind a rotary engine with its to[inserted]r[/inserted]que effect during turns and at take-off. Although in its day it was regarded very highly for its handling qualities and performance, I do not remember being very im[deleted]m[/deleted]pressed with it at this late stage. It certainly lacked the urge which was now obtainable with the higher-powered engines which one had become accustomed to by 1926. Just why we had it at Martlesham then I cannot recall. 83. [underlined] FOKKER F. VII. – 3.240.h.p. ARMSTRONG LYNX. (MONOPLANE). 1926. [/underlined] A worthy development of earlier Fokker design, with a large span cantilever wing made in one piece and mounted on top of the fuselage, entirely ply-wood covered. The roomy fuselage was constructed of welded steel tubes and had accomodation [sic] for eight or ten passengers. With the three Lynx engines it had plenty of power in hand and was delightful to fly. For a long time the British authorities were suspicious of this welded tube construction, which Fokker had used for many years previously, but after the tests of this type A.V. Roe took a licence and built a few [page break] 36. similar aircraft which were known as Avro 10’s. Only fourteen were built. I remember flying Sir Sefton Branker back to Stag Lane, D.H’s. small aerodrome at Hendon, and just managing to end the landing run before the boundary was reached. Before the days of brakes the only deceleration was caused by the tail skid. A thoroughly good type. 84. [underlined] ARMSTRONG SISKIN V. – 400 h.p. SUPERCHARGED JAGUAR (BIPLANE) [/underlined] A much cleaned up Siskin differing from the III., nicer on control and with this engine sure went up-hill. Never adopted by us but some were sold abroad. The Siskin family brought about very good development of the Jaguar, a 14. Cylinder double row radial as opposed to it's competitor the 9. cylinder single row Bristol Jupiter. These two engines vied with each other keenly throughout the 1920’s and the fighter types that used them spurred on development. 85. [underlined] AVRO 504 k. & GOSPORT. – 100 h.p. GNOME. (BIPLANE) 192[deleted]5[/deleted]6. [/underlined] At this late date the old original 504 was given an extention [sic] of life with an oleo undercarriage and converted to take a series of more powerful engines such as the 130 h.p. Clerget, the 180 h.p. Lynx, the 150 h.p. Mongoose and an Avro Alpha a few of which were made by that firm. In fact it was tried with a number of others as well. But in spite of remaining as delightful to fly as ever, it had [inserted] had [/inserted] it's day and was out of date. 86. [underlined] BLACKBURN SPRAT. – 260 h.p. R.R. FALCON (BIPLANE) 1926. [/underlined] One of two types designed with folding wings with the object of stowage within the hangar built on the deck of a [inserted] Cruiser? [/inserted] submarine. In the event the limitations of size, shape, and H.P. made for very bad[deleted]s[/deleted] performance and my comments were “no speed, lands like a brick and has no controls.” That sounds like a very attractive aeroplane and it was not surprising that this venture [below the waves] was a failure. I should add that of course the Hangar was to be watertight, and that the aircraft were to be fitted with floats so that they could be withdrawn onto the deck, the wings spread, and a seaplane take-off made. I seem to have described this ineffective experience of ten years previously! [page break] 37. 87. [underlined] VICKERS VENDACE. – 260 h.p. R.R. FALCON. (BIPLANE) 1926. [/underlined] The competitor to the Sprat but with rather better flying characteristics; as we tested both as landplanes I hate to think what they would be like on floats. A pity the Navy took so long to learn their aviation lessons. 88. [underlined] AVRO AVENGER. 525 h.p. DIRECT DRIVE LION. (BIPLANE) 1926. [/underlined] A private venture single seater fighter which showed advanced thinking by it’s designer Roy Chadwick. One of the cleanest biplanes built up to that time, having an oval semi-monocoque fuselage made up of wooden frames with a double planked [inserted] wooden [/inserted] skin covered with varnished fabric. A beautiful piece of work. The engine was well streamlined but unfortunately the pilot and military equipment were all too tight fitting for the Service. It was a competitor with the Gorcock and the Hornbill and the only one built was entered for various races in which it attained an average speed of 180 m.p.h. It was a glorious machine to fly and together with the Hornbill and the Fox showed what minimum frontal area was worth. 89. [underlined] FAIREY [deleted] 3/ [/deleted] 3.F. – 450. h.p. NAPIER LION (BIPLANE) 1926. [/underlined] As refered [sic] to in No. 38. a very much cleaned up machine which must be regarded as a new design adopted by the Service for a number of General [deleted] Service [/deleted] Purpose Squadrons at Home and Overseas. The Air Routes from Cairo to the Cape; Cairo-Nigeria; Cairo to Aden and then on to Masiera Island were all developed by the sturdy 3.F. so it is worthy of a small place in history. I always enjoyed flying it, for two years at Aden over most inhospitable country, and could trust implicitly in [deleted] in [/deleted] the reliability of the airframe and that of the trusty Lion, during 1931/32. 90. [underlined] ARMSTRONG ARGOSY. – 3. 400 h.p. JAGUARS. (BIPLANE) 1926. [/underlined] I’m afraid nothing much can have impressed me about this type after a ride as passenger as I cannot remember anything about it’s [deleted] s [/deleted] performance. [page break] 38. 91. [underlined] WESTLAND WIDGEON. – 80. h.p. CIRRUS. (MONOPLANE) 1926. [/underlined] A contemporary of the early Moth and Avian. This little high wing monoplane was very good on all controls and gave one unobstructed downward view which was a great advantage in the days when engine failure nec[deleted]c[/deleted]essitated a continual lookout for fields in which to perch if needed. While both Moth and Avian sold well, for some reason the Widgeon did not and only very few can have been built. At any rate on my visits to Yeovil I always managed to get a joyful flight in the works machine. 92. [underlined] AVRO AVIAN. – 80 h.p. CIRRUS II. (BIPLANE). 1926. [/underlined] Starting life with a 70.h.p. Genet which was underpowered it soon changed to the Cirrus and with this combination Bert Hinkler made his record flight from England to Australia in 1928. This type had a very successful career lasting in use up to 1939 although the total number built was not as great as the Moth. I enjoyed the use of one with a Hermes II engine of 115.h.p. while at the Air Ministry in 1929. In this pleasant aircraft I used to visit most of the aircraft factories in the course of my job and the bigger engine was a great improvement. 93. [underlined] HAWKER HEDGEHOG. – 400.h.p. JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE). 1926. [/underlined] This was a 1923 design and was a three seat Fleet Reconnaissance type, an overdue competitor against the Bison, Blackburn and Parnall Panther all of which were then entering Service. It had very good handling qualities and led the way with landing flaps fitted to both top and bottom wings. In appearance it slightly resembled an overgrown Woodcock and from the date of construction I think this was designed by Carter prior to the days of Camm. 94. [underlined] D.H. HOUND. – 550.h.p. NAPIER LION. (BIPLANE). 1927. [/underlined] Designed for a competition of General Purpose prototypes, of which the slower Wapiti and Fairey 3.F. were selected much to D.H.’s great disappointment. The Hound proved to be a fast aeroplane touching 162.m.p.h. but unfortunately was too cramped within the fuselage to have been suitable for the innumerable 'workhorse' duties especially overseas [page break] 39. when all kinds of desert equipment had to be accomodated [sic]. Controls were not ideal but could have been improved had the aircraft been developed. However it put up three world records for speed with load around a closed circuit. This was almost D.H.’s last attempt to capture a military order and except for one more design, the D.H.77. all metal interceptor monoplane powered with a Halford H. engine of 330.h.p., he devoted himself to civil designs only, right up to the outbreak of the second world war. 95. [underlined] FAIREY FERRET. – 400.h.p. JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE). 1927. [/underlined] If I remember correctly, entered as an alternative to the 3.P. as a G.P. type; presumably backing the horse both ways with an air-cooled and liquid cooled engine. My comments – "solid and not very interesting” seemed to indicate that it was not as good as its sister. 96. [underlined] VICKERS VIXEN. – 600.h.p. R.R. CONDOR. (BIPLANE) 1927. [/underlined] A revamped aeroplane registered G-EABC. So presumably intended for an overseas market. With the extra power it was a great improvement on previous Vixens but as we had it only for handling trials I do not know what was its eventual fate. 97. [underlined] HAWKER HAWFINCH. – 450.h.p. JUPITER VII. (BIPLANE). 1927. [/underlined] An all metal two-bay fighter built to specification F9/26 against which no fewer than nine different prototypes competed and from which the Hawfinch and the Bulldog tied. After Service trials however the Bulldog won being fractionally the faster of the two at 174.m.p.h. The Hawfinch once again showed Camm's mastery of clean design and efficient performance, the machine having a service ceiling of 24,000.ft. and did 171.m.p.h. at about 10,000.ft, which height was reached in 7 minutes 40 seconds. I think the two-bay lay out was its slight handicap, but very likable as were all Camm’s designs. [page break] 40. 98. [underlined] VICKERS VALIANT. – 400.h.p. JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE). 1927. [/underlined] Another competitor for the G.P. class which was a very easy aircraft to handle.. All Vickers types of this period bore the stamp of Rex Pierson their designer and Vixens, Vespas, Valients and their fighters of this era had a family resemblance, but the Valient was not successful, although the view was good and the cockpit comfortable and roomy. 99. [underlined] GLOSTER GORAL. – 400.h.p. JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE). 1927. [/underlined] Yet another unsuccessful G.P. type with poor lateral control. It is curious to note how many aircraft of this vintage came out with control systems which were unharmonized. Only a few were nicely matched and this made a big difference in their handling qualities. 100. [underlined] GLOSTER GOLDFINCH. – 450.h.p. JUPITER VII. (BIPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] A competitor for the single seater fighter class against the Hawfinch and Bulldog, it was a much improved Gamecock but heavier on controls and compared unfavourably with either of the other two. 101. [underlined] BRISTOL BULLDOG. – 450.h.p. JUPITER VII. (BIPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] The fighter finally selected for Service and I thought it a beautiful aircraft at all speeds and on all controls. The Bulldog formed the equipment of six of our fighter squadrons and was very well liked throughout, which resulted in a number of foreign sales to Sweden, Esthonia [sic] and Denmark and was developed with a variety of Bristol engines, starting life with a maximum speed of 173.m.p.h. it eventually attained 234.m.p.h. when fitted with a Mercury VI engine. 102. [underlined] VICKERS S.S.F. TYPE 141. – FALCON. R.R. MARK X. (BIPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] Another private venture competitor, the controls of which were very powerful and effective right down to and below the stall.. It was very easy to fly, but I suspect that it was not a very clean design as speed fell off quickly with any reduction in power or in any manoeuvre. It was therefore not seriously in the running. All the above fighters were to a specification F.9/26 the requirements of which called for day and night use. [page break] 41. 103. [underlined] BOULTON & PAUL SIDESTRAND. – 2. JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] A twin-engined bomber being a succesful [sic] development of the earlier Bugle, which went into limited Service with one or two squadrons. It had a heavy and sluggish rudder which in the end was fitted with an early attempt at servo tab assistance to lighten the load on the pilots legs. Being a large span of high aspect ratio it was good at altitude as the wing was very efficient, so much so that on one occasion when picketed down during a gale I found it was literally flying at its pickets as I was able to pass my hand completely between the wheels and the ground. 104. [underlined] VICKERS VIREO. – 240.h.p. SUPERCHARGED LYNX. (MONOPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] An all metal monoplane which was an optimistic attempt to build a fighter to meet current requirements at half the usual weight and horse power. This ideal just could not be attained however desirable it might seem and the Vireo showed this only too clearly as it 'hurled itself at the ground when landing and many more horses are required to make it real". Not very attractive. 105. [underlined] BLACKBURN LINCOCK. – 240.h.p. LYNX. (BIPLANE). I928. [/underlined] Another but better attempt at the ‘lightweight’ fighter. A perfect little aeroplane and as light as the old original Sopwith Pup. All controls were well harmonised and effective, but of course it lacked the neccessary [sic] performance as a fighter and was unable to take the required service load. For sheer joie de vivre it had it. 106. [underlined] BOULTON & PAUL PARTRIDGE. – 450.H.P. JUPITER VII. (BIPL[deleted]A[/deleted]ANE) /28 [/underlined] Yet another single seater fighter competitor, which flew much better than it looked, but required a strong pull to get out of a dive and suffered from large changes of trim at va[inserted]r[/inserted]ying speeds. Altogether not very successful. There was also the Armstrong Starling in this contest but I cannot remember flying it. [page break] 42. 107. [underlined] HAWKER HART. R.R. 590.h.p. KESTRAL. (BIPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] Camm’s first real masterpiece. A beautifully shaped clean and efficient day-bomber with a loaded weight of a little over 4,000.lbs it attained a maximum speed of just over 180.m.p.h., climbed to 10,000 ft in just over 10 minutes, had a range of about 400 miles and a service ceiling of 22,800. ft. Such a performance at the period was phenominal [sic] and outstripped its competitors, the Avro Antelope and Fox Mk. II; and was adequately roomy for both pilot and gunner/bomb-aimer which the other two were not. It had delightful handling qualities and I suppose became one of the most successful Service types ever introduced; so much so that not only was it sold abroad to many other Air Forces, fitted with either liquid or air-cooled engines, but was also developed into varients [sic] such as the two-seater fighter Demon; the Fleet Spotter Osprey; the Army Co-operation Audex; the G.P. Hardy; the South African Hartbees; and finally the much improved Hind and the less successful Hector. I do not remember any single basic type which had such a successful span of development life which was certainly attributable to Camm’s determination and designing ability. I was lucky enough to fly most of these and they were all pedigree. 108. [underlined] AVRO ANTELOPE. – R.R. 520.h.p. KESTREL. (BIPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] The real competitor to the Hart, it was slab-sided and had not nearly so much room for the crew, nor so much view for the pilot because of its long flat nose. Camm’s designs all overcame this disadvantage by adopting a sloping nose and a rounded shape which gave a much better air flow and consequently gained in performance thereby. It handled very well and was sent with the Hart to 100. Squadron at [deleted] Bister [/deleted] Bicester for comparative Service Trials. Here the great, Boom’ decided to hold a personal inquest into the views of all and sundry concerning both types, and armed with his walking stick prodded each aeroplane in various tender spots when asking about some feature or another. The outcome was a win for the Hart; but later the Antelope served two valuable purposes, being used at Farnborough for the [page break] 43. development of the Gloster-Hele-Shaw variable pitch propeller, an early British invention; and much later in 1935[deleted]I[/deleted] I found it on the scrap heap and used it as a target on the ground to test out, by practical result, the effect of a two-second burst by eight machine guns on it’s metal construction, and very satisfactorily. So the Antelope did us proud in the end as well as giving some of us the pleasure of flying it. 109. [underlined] HAWKER TOMTIT. – 150 h.p. ARMSTRONG MONGOOSE. (BIPLANE) 1928. [/underlined] A very advanced ab-initio training machine which introduced for the first time the Reid and Sigrist blind flying panel for instrument flying training. It was highly efficient, rather soft on laterel [sic] control and tended to float on the glide and was not altogether easy to land well.. That is not to say that it was not delightful to fly. Only ten aircraft were built for the Service while a few others were made with various engines, in an attempt to capture a rather non-existent civil market, but I think it was too expensive for the private owner. I flew it at Brooklands by the courtesy of the Company and indeed took my family in it to their great enjoyment. 110. [underlined] WESTLAND WAPITI. – 580.h.p. JUPITER VIII. (BIPLANE). 1928. [/underlined] The type which shared the General Purpose market with the Fairey 3.F. and it was a splendid aircraft to fly having good controls, simple, rugged, straightforward and a draughtless [sic] cockpit for once. The engine was well overhung in the nose and the nine cylinders could be felt firing almost individually as it bounced along. The Wapiti did valiant service all over the world and although it looked clumsy it was a splendid workhorse. A modified version became famous as the first aircraft to fly over the peak of Mount Everest, and many were used by the Air Force in India to keep down trouble on the North West Frontier. 111. [underlined] FRENCH WIBAULT. – 460.h.p. RENAULT. 1928. [/underlined] A type which I can remember little or nothing about so quoting my log-book “Controls, though better than the Breguet were poor to say the least. It had no adjustable tailplane so any change of trim caused a big load on the stick. View in any direction was practically non-existent [page break] 44. and particularly so in turns. Not my idea of a good aeroplane although much used by the French”. 112. [underlined] HAWKER HARRIER. – 580.h.p. JUPITER VIII. (BIPLANE). 1929. [/underlined] A complementary design to the Horsley in an attempt to gain higher performance with a bigger load. In this it was not successful particularly at take-off with full load and as the Horsley was already in production the Harrier had no future. It was used for a number of years as a flying engine test-bed at Farnborough and Bristol. 113. [underlined] HAWKER HORNET/FURY. – 480.H.P. KESTREL. (BIPLANE). 1929. [/underlined] This aircraft was an insight by Camm of the fighter necessary to surpass his own design of the Hart. From the word go it was outstanding by any yardstick and my comments were; “without doubt the most perfect example of what an aircraft should be, controls excellent at all speeds, glide 70.m.p.h. in comfort, lands and takes off like a bird, goes very fast and one can see everywhere one wants to with plenty of cockpit space”. It did not take long for this private venture prototype to be produced as the Fury, the most elegant aeroplane of all time at that date. Moreover it was the first front-line aircraft with a speed of over 220.m.p.h., a climb to 10,000. ft. in three minutes and fif[deleted]i[/deleted]ty seconds and a service ceiling of 29,500. ft. but armed with only two Vickers guns. It formed the equipment of three fighter squadrons No.43. No.25. and No.1. and these squadrons were enthusiastic about the precision with which the aircraft could be flown and the abundance of power available, made evident from the surprisingly low all-up weight of about 3,600.lbs. The Fury sold abroad to Yugoslavia, Norway, Persia, Portugal, and Spain and in fact became the envy of others who could not get them. From the Fury evolved the Nimrod, as a Fleet Fighter to take over from the old fashioned Flycatcher which had served the Fleet Air Arm well for many years though long outmoded in performance. The Nimrod was also sold abroad to Denmark and Japan and together with the Osprey, conversion of the Hart, began to close the big difference in performance which had existed so markedly between Fleet operated aircraft and those operated from land bases. [page break] 45. It was with the introduction of the Fury with it's high performance that the Boffins began to forecast that pilots would not be able to withstand speed beyond 300 m.p.h., or the effects of ‘G’ beyond the power of 4. Famous last words; and as so often predictions of the future have been so wrong by the scientific world. Furies and Bulldogs set a new standard of aerobatics, both individual and in formation. I believe it was due to these relatively lightly-loaded fighters that Squadron training tended to concentrate on formation manoeuvres which, while highly spectacular, were not 'war’. All these Hawker types since the Hedgehog had proved superbly the simple form of metal construction that had been used in all of them, which in it’s own right was just as brilliant as was the overall design. 114. [underlined] FAIREY FLEET FIGHTER/RECONNAISSANCE – (BIPLANE) 1929. [/underlined] Unless this was the Ferret[deleted]in[/deleted] in original clothing, then I do not recollect what it was. I rather think it was another of Fairey’s double strings. 115. [underlined] Fairey Fantome. – 480 h.p. R.R. KESTREL. (BIPLANE) 1929. [/underlined] Fairey’s private venture competitor against the Hornet but not such a perfect aircraft, the controls of which became very ineffective below 80 m.p.h. and as usual with so many clean aircraft of that time it had a long flat nose which obscured forward view for take off and landing and for sighting the guns. The cockpit also was very tight fitting as in the case of others described previously; and although a high performer the Fantome only came to rest in [deleted] Belgiim [/deleted] Belgium much to the disappointment of Dick Fairey but led to him establishing a Belgian company. 116. [underlined] PARNALL ELF. – 115 h.p. CIRRUS HERMES. (BIPLANE) 1929. [/underlined] An attempt at the private owners market; which in appearance was most attractive, but with poor flying characteristics being directionally unstable, bad at take-off, poor laterally and on elevator controls it really hadn't a hope. In fact heavy with no harmony at all. [page break] 46. 117. [underlined] VICKERS 143. – 500 h.p. JUPITER VI. (BIPLANE) 1929. [/underlined] Another Vickers private venture fighter similar to the previous 141. but with an air cooled engine, and a symetrical [sic] wing-section. Presumably in competition with the Bristol BULLPUP and the Hawker Jupiter Interceptor, none of which were produced. 118. [underlined] BRISTOL BULLPUP. – 480 h.p. MERCURY 2.A. (BIPLANE) 1929. [/underlined] A rather more powerful Bulldog, directionally unstable and it felt the big torque of the Mercury very much at take-off, requireing [sic] full rudder to hold it straight. With a speed of no more than 190 m.p.h. the Hornet remained superior. 119. [underlined] AVRO 621. TUTOR. – 155 h.p. MONGOOSE etc. (BIPLANE) 1929. [/underlined] Roy Chadwick’s design of a basic trainer to replace the old 504. It was completely foolproof, flying comfortably at 50 m.p.h., and stalled at 41. with a top speed of 108 m.p.h., which was a very good speed range no doubt obtained by the use of Handly [sic] Page slots, which by this time had become an accepted feature of a good many types. It was accepted into Service as the Avro Tutor powered with the 240 h.p. Lynx and was much[deleted]ed[/deleted] used in the R.A.F. at Home and Overseas, as well as being sold into Denmark, Greece, and South Africa. Developed still further with the Armstrong Cheetah the type became known as the Avro 626, and continued in production until 1939. by which time the Air Forces of Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Czechoslovakia, Egypt, Greece, South China, Lithuania, Esthonia [sic], and Portugal all had aquired [sic] this splendid aeroplane either as landplane or on floats. Altogether a pretty successful kite. 120. [underlined] BLACKBURN NAUTILUS. – R.R. FALCON XII. (BIPLANE) 1929. [/underlined] Another two-seater Fleet Fi[deleted]f[/deleted]g[inserted]h[/inserted]ter Reccon[deleted]n[/deleted]aissance type which was sluggish and heavy on control, and I thought not quite a fighter. I don’t remember much about this competition as it came at the end of my days at Martlesham, which I enjoyed so much. [page break] 47. 121. [underlined] CURTISS 0.2e. – CURTISS/WRIGHT. (BIPLANE) 1930. [/underlined] In America on vacation from the Staff College, I was given a flight in this type over New York which struck me then, and since, as one of the sights of the world. I was allowed to fly dual from the back seat and found it very stable and easy, and I remember bringing it down into Mitchell Field and pulling off a perfect three-point landing much to the surprise of the gallant 'LOOTENANT' who occupied the front seat. I also had a flight from Langly Field in a Curtiss A.3. but quite forgot what operational functions either type fulfilled. Two of us Squadron Leaders were on a survey of a number of aircraft factories to study American methods and development, and were usually addressed as 'Squadies’ – an American form of Sergeant. America is a very leveling [sic] country. 122. [underlined] D.H. TIGER MOTH. – 130 h.p. GYPSY MAJOR. (BIPLANE) 1931. [/underlined] The Tiger Moth was an obvious development of the earlier ones, but with increased power made it the forerunner of no less than 8300 built, to become the primary trainer [deleted] othe [/deleted] of the R.A.F. and other countries in preparation for the Second War. It was universally liked by both instructor and pupil. My friend in Aden and many other places, it still towes [sic] gliders in a number of Clubs. 123. [underlined] CIERVA AUTOGIRO. – 140. ARMSTRONG GANNET. 1934. [/underlined] A later development of Cierva’s lengthy experiment [deleted] ion [/deleted] with the autogiro principle. In this C.30. type which I tried at Hanworth he had introduced a shaft drive from the engine to the rotor, and by clutching in it was possible to accelerate the rotor speed. This enabled a vertical take-off to be made but only to sufficient height to gain forward speed, when the rotor had to be declutched and thereafter it turned freely by air speed alone. It was known as the 'jump autogiro' for this reason. I was most impressed. The landing was made from a down hill approach but forward speed became nil as [deleted] as [/deleted] the stick was pulled back and one sank vertically onto the ground for the last few feet. Production was done by Avro who made 66. and it was licenced into France and Germany but alas was never further developed, I believe owing to the death of Cierva. [page break] 48. 124. [underlined] AIRSPEED COURIER. – 240 h.p. LYNX. (MONOPLANE) 1934. [/underlined] A very nice civil cabin aeroplane with one of the first retractable undercarriages designed in this Country. It was a real attempt at a modern conception by this new firm headed by Tiltman and Norway. It was with this aeroplane that Alan Cobham carried out his early experiments in flight re-fuelling another aircraft in flight; a method which took many years to perfect, but one which is in vital use to-day. Only a few Couriers were built. 125. [underlined] HANDLEY PAGE 42. ‘HORATIUS’ – 4. BRISTOL PEGASUS. (BIPLANE) 1934 [/underlined] I was a paying passenger in this type on a flight from London to Paris to visit the Aircraft Exhibition. IT WAS MY FIRST EXPERIENCE of real commercial airline flying and what impressed me most was the elegance and roominess of the passenger accomodation [sic] ; but still more watching Captain O.P. Jones, with his Captain Kettle beard, walk slowly out across the tarmac pulling on a pair of spotless yellow suede gloves to take his place at the controls, after all engines had been run up for him. This was a fine piece of airline showmanship which surely gave the passengers great confidence, for airline flying even then was not everybody’s cup of tea. We arrived safely in Paris, and returned later in a sister ship 'Hengist’. A most successful type, although somewhat ugly ducklings of Imperial Airway's fleet, they took a large slice of the Continental traffic from their competitors. 126. [underlined] SHORT SCYLLA. – 4. BRISTOL PEGASUS. (BIPLANE) 1935. [/underlined] An attempt at a replacement of the H.P. 42. but which looked even uglier. Both types cruised at about 100. m.p.h. but the Scylla was far less comfortable and only a few were built. I made the journey again to Paris, in both cases taking about two and a quarter hours, in this instance to be shown the most secret Hispano 20mm. gun demonstrated in the dungeons of a fort outside the city. It was very impressive but at that early stage of development an uncertain bet so I chose the 8X.303. guns for the Hurricane and Spitfire. An exciting and epoch-making journey as that gun became the next step to victory in 1944. [page break] 49. 127. [underlined] Miles Falcon. – GIPSY. (MONOPLANE). 1936. [/underlined] A pleasant little enclosed cabin, private owners aeroplane, one of a family of such which Miles designed over the next few years. It flew well but needed a lot of neck twisting to see out in most directions and as I flew it at Brooklands in bad visibility, it struck me as a bad feature. 128. [underlined] WESTLAND WALLACE. – 680. h.p. PEGASUS. (BIPLANE). 1938. [/underlined] At West Freugh Armament Training Camp which was equipped with these aircraft for target towing. An overgrown development of the old Wapiti with all mod cons such as heating and an enclosed cockpit. Very gentlemanly and comfortable to fly and I remember the propeller was so geared down that one could almost count the revolutions! 129. [underlined] VICKERS WELLESLEY. – 680.h.p. PEGASUS. (MONOPLANE). 1938. [/underlined] A large span monoplane bomber constructed on Wallace’s geodetic principle of design, which had originated in his design of the airship R. 100. The wings flexed a good deal in turbulent conditions and being rather soft on controls responses were slow but otherwise quite straightforward. Hardly an ideal bomber and not many were built as such, but its great success was in a long-distance Flight by four of these aircraft to Australia in two non-stop stages; England to Egypt and thence to Australia. This Flight was under the command of my Brother-in-law Wing Commander Oswald Gayford who was also the pilot of the long-distance flight made in the Fairey monoplane in 1938. All aircraft reached Australia but his one had a forced landing in crocodile country on the west coast some hundreds of miles from the nearest habitation. As the Wellesley was heavily loaded [deleted] w [/deleted] and single-engined that was quite a remarkable flight for 1937/38. 130. [underlined] FAIREY BATTLE. – 1030 h.p. R.R. MERLIN. (MONOPLANE) 1938. [/underlined] Like the Wellesley, the Battle was a single-engined day bomber which introduced the change over from the old biplanes. Contrary to some expectations they proved to be quite easy and straightforward to [page break] 50. fly; the only trouble being that they lacked sufficient performance and bomb load to be effective in war. The Advanced Air Striking Force which went to France at the outbreak of war was equipped with this type and it suffered heavy loss in the first few months. 131. [underlined] SUPERMARINE STRANRAER. – 2. PEGASUS. (BIPLANE) 1938. [/underlined] A very good flying-boat following on after the Southampton; free of vibration and with good controls; another of Mitchell's successful designs. I enjoyed a pleasant flight in one all round the Firth of Clyde and watched the new cruiser doing her speed trials off Arran. She was H.M.S. Arathusa [sic]. 132. [underlined] BRISTOL BLENHEIM. – “2. BRISTOL MERCURIES. (MONOPLANE) 1938 [/underlined] The bomber developed from the civil prototype 'Britain First' which at that time,1935, was given a cruising speed of 240 m.p.h. This caused consternation in some circles and a prompt reaction to have it converted into a bomber to augment the few types available for the pre-war expansion programme. It is never wise to take a civil type and arm it, and still retain it's original performance; it just doesn’t happen. But something had to be produced to fill the need and the Blenheim was better than some others; and was used in the early stages of the war to come. The one I flew in 1938 I thought good on control except the rudder which was solid any speed, but it was not fast enough to be an unarmed bomber, and as soon as turrets were added the performance fell off too much. Like the Battle it suffered many casualities [sic] when war came. 133. [underlined] AIRSPEED OXFORD – 2. 270 h.p. CHETAH’S. [sic] (MONOPLANE) 1938. [/underlined] A twin-engined crew trainer which at first had poor take-off and climb with fixed pitch propellers and insufficient power. This was much improved in later development as it handled well in the air. It had a very marked swing to the right at take-off which was best countered by opening up the starboard engine a little more the the [sic] port one. I once forgot this trick on a cross-wind runway and took off at right angles! It was also over flapped and with full flap down had a rather abrupt touch down with no hold off whatever. In spite of these characteristics it did a fine training job. [page break] 51. 134. [underlined] MILES MAGISTER. – 130.h.p. GIPSY III. (MONOPLANE). 1938. [/underlined] One of Miles' three-ply and glue constructions designed as an elementary trainer, but being underpowered had no performance worth taking about, and was very draughty and cramped. I also seem to remember that it had some unpleasant characteristics directionally in a turn in which the nose tended to go down from which recovery was not straight forward. 135. [underlined] AVRO ANSON. – 2. 335.h.p. CHEETAH’S. (MONOPLANE). 1938. [/underlined] A very easy machine which served the Air Force well in many roles. From the first model which tended to look like a flying greenhouse, made with a wood and fabric wing all in one piece, it adopted the constructional features of Fokker. By 1946 with the Anson 19 the wing had been designed in metal and fitted with 420.H.P. engines, I used it a lot when visiting units in my Command, but in those days it lacked all the modern forms of radio navigation. Altogether the Anson in its various forms lasted from 1935 when first introduced as a Coastal reconnaissance type until about 1952 after some 11,000 had been built. 136. [underlined] MILES MONARCH. – GIPSY THREE. (MONOPLANE). 1939. [/underlined] A little two/three seater side-by-side enclosed cabin machine which was quite pleasant even though the control system was not harmonised. One of Miles many three-ply and glue types and an improvement over the Magister. 137. [underlined] NORTH AMERICAN HARVARD. – PRATT & WHITNEY WASP. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] At Boscombe Down: one of the many lease-lend American types which was a very satisfactory trainer having good controls except for a slight hunt on the elevator. Being an ungeared engine this type was notorious for its propeller noise due to the high tip speed and anyone living near a training airfield equiped [sic] with Harvards suffered unmercifully. [page break] 52. 138. [underlined] CURTISS HAWK & MOHAWK. – WRIGHT CYCLONE. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] The first of a series of Curtiss fighters – Mohawk, Tomahawk, Kittyhawk. This Hawk was one of the early types aquired [sic] from U.S.A. by the French to augment their pre-war aircraft supply. It was easy and pleasant to fly, excellent laterally but rather heavy on the elevator and pulled hard in a tight turn. Very resilient undercarriage suspension, good windscreen and rigid and robust at all speeds; a nice article although not terribly fast having a bulky circular fuselage. 139. [underlined] GLOSTER GLADIATOR. – 850.H.P. MERCURY. (BIPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] A splendid example of design of the old school, just another biplane fighter with all their characteristics. Lightly loaded, it would glide for miles even with half-flap. It was noteworthy for a single-strut undercarriage which was the design of George Dowty who was in the Gloster team just before the war. As events were to prove the Gladiator was hardly a match for the German. 140. [underlined] D.H. FLAMINGO. – 2. 890.h.p. PERSEUS. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] The first all-metal D.H. airliner which only saw service to the tune of 16 aircraft, procdution [sic] being stopped by the war. They were used for Air Council and other V.I.P. communication work, very pleasant to fly but once again controls were not well harmonised. It was excellent in the 'one engine out’ condition when it could be trimmed to fly hands and feet off. At full load it motored in at just over 100.m.p.h. with a pleasant hold-off for landing. It might have had a bright future but for the war. 141. [underlined] HAWKER HURRICANE. – 1030.h.p. R.R. MERLIN. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] This was one of the most important aircraft in my life as I had been much concerned with its conception during 1934 with Sidney Camm. After helping him with the Hart and the Fury I was able to put across to him what I thought would be needed for a fighter suitable for war against Germany when it came; and it seemed obvious to me it would not be long coming. To be successful this fighter must be a complete departure from [page break] 53. the previous requirements of biplane fighter design with all their limitations of slow landing speed, and insufficient hitting power by only two or four guns; and with these packed into the fuselage within reach of the pilot thus making it bigger than needs be. When I went down to Kingston to see his mock-up with its thick section wing, there, was the layout neccessary [sic] to install two batteries of four guns each, one in each wing, and thus narrow the fuselage down considerably as well as enclose the cockpit with a sliding hood. Together with the essential retractable undercarriage and V.P. airscrew this would then fulfill [sic] the Operational Requirements I had previously envisaged and written into Specification F. 5/34. Camm was one of the most clear sighted of our military designers in spite of his sometimes vitriolic language and inability to suffer fools gladly, but if one could convince him, often in the course of fierce argument, he would go all the way with you. This is how it happened in 1934 when the Hurricane was born. It was a masterly design throughout and I doubt if there was any other, except perhaps the Spitfire, which proved capable of so much development throughout the war. 142. [underlined] LOCKHEED HUDSON. – 2. PRATT & WHITNEY WASPS. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] One of the first of the tricycle types, which did not impress me greatly, although it had the usual excellent American detail lay-out. It handled quite well but as so often all controls were different; ailerons being light but low geared, rudder heavy and spongy, and no feel about the elevator. At slow speed I thought the ailerons got very soft and ineffective. Rather disappointing as it looked better than it proved to be. 143. [underlined] MILES MENTOR. – 230.h.p. GIPSY QUEEN SIX. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] The same family resemblance and characteristics of all Miles’ previous products. I certainly did not like the flap control coupled to the throttle, as this was neither instinctive nor neccessary [sic]. In other respects it was not outstanding. [page break] 54. 144. [underlined] MILES MASTER. – 450.h.p. R.R. KESTREL. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] A full grown trainer better than any of his previous miniatures but by no means perfect as the ailerons were inclined to snatch. Approach speed of 85/90.m.p.h. was needed to obtain a nice hold-off for touch down, otherwise it could be 'brusque'. Later redesigned as a Mk.2. with Pratt & Whitney Wasp engine it was a much improved machine. 145. [underlined] WESTLAND LYSANDER. – 840.h.p. MERCURY. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] An unusual high-wing monoplane designed for Army Co-operation which required a technique of its own to fly it really well. Disappointingly heavy on ailerons, it was rather like a flying boat i.e. sluggish. Heavily flapped it was good at slow flying but was very defenceless against enemy attack. It was not a success in this role but much used for supply dropping to the ‘Resistance’ and for picking up aircrew on the run in Europe. 146. [underlined] MESSERSCHMITT. 109. – DAILMLER-BENZ. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] I liked this aeroplane although the cockpit was cramped and the forward view for landing was not all that good. Even with the narrow undercarriage it had, the take-off was quite normal but needed a lot of right rudder to counteract the torque, but the rudder was light and effective. Below 300.m.p.h. ailerons were pleasantly light and effective but hardened up above that speed. It was very stable fore and aft with a heavy elevator and needed adjustment of tail trim for each change of speed. I noted that the engine was smooth and powerful and opened up instantly when required, presumably a side effect of petrol injection instead of carburation. I thought it a very good aeroplane. 147. [underlined] SPITFIRE II. – 1650 h.p. R.R. MERLIN (MONOPLANE) 1940. [/underlined] I found the controls on this aeroplane excellent below 280.m.p.h. above which speed they stiffened up laterally. By comparison with the M.E. 109. no rudder was needed in turns whereas the latter was of the old school requiring a lot of top rudder in steep turns to either side. Take-off was easy and the view good and it had a pleasant float at touch-down after an approach speed of 90.M.P.H. [page break] 55. As with the Hurricane the Spitfire was of first importance to me, and it certainly lived up to my ideas of it some six years earlier, when my aquaintance [sic] with Mitchell influenced him to adopt the F. 5/34 requirements for eight gun armament etc. With Mitchell's thin section wing it was not easy to install them as in the Hurricane, but with great effort and ingenuity he managed it successfully, although at first it had looked impossible to get in more than six. Here I should say how lucky I then was then to have as ultimate Chief over my department (Operational requirements), Sir H.R. Ludlow-Hewitt as D.C.A.S., who had similar ideas. Consequently he backed the F. 5/34 requirements completely and reduced opposition from those who had become acclimatised to the old biplane manoeuvreability [sic] and low landing speed as a prerequisite for all fighters. A very outmoded viewpoint. It may not be generally known that both Gloster and Bristol built prototypes with air-cooled engines to specification F. 5/34, but they were well behind Hawker and Supermarine in time. 148. [underlined] SPITFIRE.III. – 1260.h.p. R.R. MERLIN XX. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] This aircraft was a development prototype. The wing tips had been removed which added about 30.M.P.H. and manoeuvreability [sic] was materially improved. My comments were "A great aeroplane that gives a real feeling of speed. Controls very good below 350.M.P.H. but ailerons get very stiff above this. The fore and aft control which was very sensitive on the Mk.II. during landing is damped by an inertia ballast weight on the stick, which is very effective. Inclined to do a little jump on touchdown. Altogether a great improvement on 12.lbs. boost.” The experience gained with this developement [sic] model of which only one was built, proved most useful in further development of later Marks of Spitfire, particularly Mk.V. Through the genius of Joe Smith; who was Mitchell's right-hand man and took over all further design responsibilities after his death in 1937; the Spitfire outlived all its contempories developing to Mks XXI & XXII powered by 2050.h.p. R.R. Griffon engine, and remained the finest and fastest fighter in the world long after others had become obsolete. From the basic design was evolved the Seafire for the Fleet, and a Photographic Reconnaissance Type, both invaluable up to the end of war. [page break] 56. 149. [underlined] PERCIVAL PROCTOR. – 250.h.p. GIPSY QUEEN. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] A very nice enclosed cabin communications aircraft. It had rather a long take-off, with a cruising speed of about 160.m.p.h., a long flat glide and a longish hold-off for landing. Later when C.R.D. I had one for my own use based on Hendon and I had two interesting episodes with it. Once when climbing out of Hendon off the short runway towards Harrow, l was heading for the cloud base at about 1500 ft when out of the cloud in front me and only a relatively few feet above dived a whole squadron of Spitfires. I was very much at the receiving end, but by the time I had drawn breath they had passed over my head. That shook me as there was no time whatever to get out of the way. The other was a repeat of landing in a Moth in a sandstorm, but this time in a blizzard in Yorkshire. Stupidly I took-off a disused runway and ran slap into thick and blinding snow so did a quick circuit, found the down wind end, and landed at no forward speed on about half throttle, literally lowering myself vertically on to the ground. 150. [underlined] BREWSTER BUFFALO FLEET FIGHTER. – WRIGHT CYCLONE. (MONOPLANE) 1940 [/underlined] An American lease-lend with a supposedly high performance which did not appear to mature. It was an ugly aeroplane with a completely circular large fuselage and the wings were mounted half-way up. As so often, the controls were not harmonised and it did not strike me as being a winner. The tail wheel was fully castoring and supposed automatically to lock fore and aft for landing, but if this did not happen it was quite possible to end up with a ground loop. 151. [underlined] MILES U. 8. – GIPSY. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] Yet another of his attempts at an initial trainer of which I can remember very little except that it never saw service. 152. [underlined] GRUMMAN MARTLET FLEET FIGHTER. – WRIGHT CYCLONE. (MONOPLANE). ’40. [/underlined] Similar design to the Buffalo i.e. a big circular fuselage with the wings mounted half-way up. Very responsive on ailerons but heavy on rudder and elevator, nevertheless turned corners very quickly. It gave [page break] 57. the impression of being a bigger machine than it was; and incidentIy [sic] one was nearly blown out of the cockpit with the hood open. 153. [underlined] FAIREY FULMAR. – 1100.h.p. R.R. MERLIN. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] If I remember correctly this was a conversion from an experimental type F. 4/34. which specification was for a light dive-bomber to carry two 50. lbs. bombs internally stowed. Hawkers also designed the Henley to these same requirements, but for reasons I quite forget, neither aircraft completed trials as such; the Henley being converted for target towing, and the Fairey into a Fleet Fighter-Reconnaissance type, renamed Fulmar. My comments were "Not what I expected. All controls feel heavily mass-balanced and have no crispness or feel, with the result that one does not feel part of the aeroplane, and certainly not my idea of a fighter.” 154. [underlined] WESTLAND WHILRLWIND. – 2. R.R. PEREGRINE. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] A single seat supposedly night-fighter, armed with four Hispano 20 m.m. guns mounted in the nose. It stemmed from a specification F. 10/35 which was intended to develop [deleted] s [/deleted] the Hurricane into a four cannon fighter. However my successor changed the concept altogether, and the Hurricane developed itself, only two or three years later on, and just too late for the Battle of Britain. To fly I thought the Whirlwind rather full of tricks of its own; “requiring a very heavy push on the stick to get the tail up and lacked feel on all controls at landing. Not enough elevator to hold off at touch-down when the tail is well up after the wheels touch, it then does a little prance". Not an ideal night-fighter and only a few were put into Service. A disappointment for its designer Teddy Petter. 155. [underlined] D.H. PUSS MOTH. – 130.h.p. GIPSY III. (MONOPLANE). 1940. [/underlined] I flew this one when it was ten years old, and contrary to other opinions I was very disappointed and wondered how on earth such a machine could have flown the Atlantic and got around the world so successfully. For reasons I didn't define at the time it did not appeal to me; so I may have misjudged it. [page break] 58. 156. [/underlined] STINSON RELIANT. – LYCOMING. (MONOPLANE) 194o. [sic] [/underlined] “An American [deleted] e [/deleted] runabout belonging to Fairey’s, furnished for comfort with a cruising speed of about 150 m.p.h. Controls arranged like a car and has a very smooth undercarriage. As with most high-wing types the view out sidewise is obstructed when on a turn and in bad visibility this can be naughty when turning in to land.” 157. [underlined] BOULTON PAUL DEFIANT. – 1260. h.p. R.R. MERLIN (MONOPLANE) 4[missing numbers] [/underlined] Built to Specification F. 9/35. a conception for a standing patrol fighter with an all round field of fire and a speed of over 300 m.p.h. it was a re-insurance against the F.5/34. failing in the interceptor role. Hawker’s also designed the Hotspur to this specification but never finished it because they were too busy with Hurricane production. The Defiant went into Service and on one day over the beaches of Dunkirk scored a big success, but owing to the shortage of fighters it had to be used as an interceptor, which of course it wasn’t, and was not so successful thereafter. To fly, it appeared to have a slight lack of lateral stability, was rather soft on the rudder and lacked feel: had an excellent view in all directions, but it weighed 8000 lbs. and that just spoiled its performan[missing letters] Ultimately the Hotspur was said to be 20 m.p.h. faster, but that was spil[missing letter] milk. But one thing the Defiant did; develop the four gun turret which put Boulton Paul on the map for design of this armament for the defence of bombers. John North aquired [sic] the licence from a French firm – S.A.M. – for their method of Hydraulic power operation, and developed it to a grea[missing letter] extent to our advantage. 158. [underlined] HANDLEY PAGE HALIFAX. – 4. R.R. MERLIN XX’s (MONOPLANE) 1940. [/underlined] We had the Halifax, Manchester, Stirling and Lancaster all at Boscombe at the same time. I handled the Halifax with Squadron Leader McGuire and thought it quite quick and responsive, and at 50,000 lbs. all up weight and 10 lbs. boost the take [sic] seemed excellent. I also thought the Pilot’s view might have been better. It must be remembered that these heavy bombers were the first of thei[missing letter] [page break] 59. kind, of British design any rate, and aircraft of 25 tons were somethin[missing letter] of a novelty; however pilots found less surprise or difficulty flying them than [deleted] might [/deleted] was anticipated. I think the credit for their evolution should be given to the then Wing Commander R.H.M.S. Saundby, who in 1936 wrote what became known as 'the big bomber paper’, an appreciation of the operational economies as they improve with the size of bomber. 159. [underlined] AVRO MANCHESTER. – 2. R.R. VULTURES. 1760 h.p. (MONOPLANE) 1940. [/underlined] In some respects it was lucky to have a go at the Halifax before the Manchester, because the former showed up the latter as being slower in response and heavier, with a worse take-off, although I liked the pilot's view much better. But the real let down of the Manchester was the engine as the Vulture was unreliable and never gave it’s power so the one engine out case was pretty hopeless. McGuire, in whose Flight these types were one day had a poor up-hill take off and caught his left wing against a big radio pole and waltzed round it through over ninety degrees without damage or disaster; which only went to show how strong was the wing structure. The Manchester was not in the same class as the [deleted] Three [/deleted] [inserted] two [/inserted] others and it rapidly developed into the Lancaster. 160. [underlined] CURTISS P.40. TOMAHAWK. – Allinson. (MONOPLANE) 1940. [/underlined] From one to the other, my next was the lead at this time in American fighters of the lease-lend era and it followed Curtiss characteristics, with a smooth engine which felt good. It had an electric control over the pitch change of the propeller which was operated by a small switch tucked away out of sight. Of course I forgot to check that it was in fine pitch for take-off, as opposed to coarse for flight, with the result that I nearly did a McGuire on the same up-hill run, as it did not want to leave the ground too easily [deleted] i [/deleted] in coarse. Boscombe was a grass airfield then. 161. [underlined] AVRO LANCASTER. – 4. 1280. h.p. R.R. MERLINS. (MONOPLANE) 1941. [/underlined] It had become apparent to Roy Chadwick that the Manchester was no match to the other two four-engined types, and with remarkable speed [page break] 60. a prototype Lancaster was first flown on the 9th. January 1941 and delivered to Boscombe on the 27th, and a productionised prototype followed as early as the 13th. of May. Dobson and Chadwick had done wonders and this must be a record for introducing an outstanding winner. Until then the Halifax had looked to be the best, but the Lancaster was in a category of it's own, and which became the best of them all. "A greatly improved Manchester with a much better top speed, handles well with improved ailerons on 100 foot span, larger twin rudders and no central fin. A splendid effort". From that time on it became the equipment of fifty six squadrons in front line service and was constantly modified to carry bigger and better bombs, culminating with the ten ton block-buster ’Grand Slam’, and of course the remarkable skip bomb invented by Barnes Wallis for the Dam Busters. The Lancaster was one of the finest types ever introduced into the Service and from it Chadwick evolved the successful York transport in just five months after the drawings were issued to Avro’s experimental department. This was a great step towards getting a small foothold in the transport aircraft field, up till then entirely in American hands, and they were operated in Service and Civil use all over the world. Unfortunately I never had the pleasure of flying one. A further evolution was the Lincoln bomber which increased the all-up weight from 50,000 lbs. to 82,000. This type was intended for the long-range attack of Japan from Pacific bases, but fortunately not needed. 162. [underlined] FAIREY SWORDFISH. – 750 h.p. PEGASUS. (BIPLANE) 1941. [/underlined] Although by now a design some seven years old it still had a remarkable career in front of it. It was one of those old fashioned aircraft which just stepped into the air with any old load and wafted along behind a large highly geared down propellor, the slip stream from which blew one about unpleasantly in the cockpit. It was a wonderful old crate which did valiant service. It seems unbelievable that the Fleet Air Arm were able to carry on a first class war with an aircraft with such poor performance. [page break] 61. 163. [underlined] BOEING FORTRESS. 17.– [deleted] G. 17 [/deleted]. 4. WRIGHT CYCLONES. (MONOPLANE). 1941. [/underlined] It was an interesting comparison to fly this American heavy bomber after ours. I found it quite straightforward in take-off, flight, and landing, although it was a two-man job requiring the second pilot to lock the throttle levers, operate the undercarriage switch control, flap control etc whereas ours did not need two pairs of hands. The controls I found heavy and slow in response and quite devoid of feel, but it motored in comfortably at 110.M.p.h. At 40,000.lbs the undercarriage was surprisingly resilient. I later did some dropping trials with American 2,000.lbs bombs at an all up weight of 49,000.lbs when the take-off was still good. One of the remembered characteristics of all these American types was the distinctive smell they had; just in the same way the French and German types smelt differently, no doubt due to the paints and materials, used in each. 164. [underlined] FAIREY ALBACORE. – 1130.h.p. BRISTOL TAURUS. (BIPLANE). 1941. [/underlined] Here my log-book lets me down because I remember flying this Swordfish replacement; in fact a grown-up Swordfish in which the pilot was positioned right up front behind the engine with a much superior view. It was a single-bay robust aeroplane but I cannot remember anything of its flying characteristics. 165. [underlined] MILES. M. 20. – 1060.h.p. R.R. MERLIN. (MONOPLANE). 1941. [/underlined] Another three-ply and glue construction but of much greater ambition than anything previously. It was in fact a wooden 8-gun fighter of very clean lines but the old familiar long flat nose. I am afraid I cannot remember any of the handling features of the type which complemented another wooden attempt later on by Jimmy Martin. Designed as an insurance against failure of our metal raw material supply, there was yet another manufactured by Hilson which was a copy of a Hurricane in wood. I think it was just as well they were not needed as I am sure they would not have stood up to battle damage. [page break] 62. 166. [underlined] MILES. M.18.(T.1/37). – GIPSY. (MONOPLANE). 1941. [/underlined] An ab initio trainer built to compete against a number of other prototypes to specification T. 1/37. It had a very thick wing section with controls lacking harmony but quite pleasant to fly and I thought a vastly better job than the Magister. I do not believe that this competition resulted in any Service type. It astonishes me now what a prolific designer Miles was. 167. [underlined] D.H. MOSQUITO. – 2. 1535.h.p. R.R. MERLINS. (MONOPLANE). 1941. [/underlined] The first prototype came to Boscombe early May 1941 and was immediately recognized as a winner being beautifully manoeuvreable [sic] , fast, and in fact very like a fighter to handle. Unfortunatly [sic] it broke its back while taxi-ing due I think, to the tail wheel tending to bounce. However Bishop immediately had a makeshift repair done and the aircraft flew back to Hatfield, where the ne[deleted]c[/deleted]cessary minor re-design was made to the fuselage in a matter of days and from that momen[deleted]a[/deleted]t the Mosquito never looked back. From September 1941 to early 1944 it was the fastest aircraft in the war and nearly 7,000 were built. I quote from a book of reference "The trials at Boscombe Down marked the tur[inserted]n[/inserted]ing point in the Mosquito’s career. Up to that time there had been incredulity about the De Havilland performance estimates. The Boscombe measured speed proved 10.m.p.h. faster than those estimates; 20.m.p.h. faster than official estimates and 20.m.p.h. faster than the Spitfire with the same engine. The whole atmosphere changed from the moment Boscombe confirmed that". The lasting credit for the introduction of the Mosquito into the Service rests with the late Air Chief Marshal[deleted]l[/deleted] Sir Wilfred Freeman who had supported D.H.’s earlier conception of this wonderful type from 1939 onwards, much against opposition of many who could not, or would not, place any faith in speed instead of armament for the protection of the bomber. Thereafter the type was converted for many roles – unarmed bomber; fighter bomber; night fighter; intruder; photographic reconnaissance; pathfinder and a few others and every conversion was a success. An epic aeroplane. [page break] 63. 168. [underlined] HESTON PHOENIX. – GIPSY. (BIPLANE). 1941. [/underlined] A really poor type which I found difficult to taxi without brakes, and what there were of them were not working. It had the worst climb imaginable and no wonder it did not sell. I cannot remember anything about it that resembled being good. 169. [underlined] STINSON A.R. 430. – LYCOMING. (MONOPLANE). 1941. [/underlined] A high wing ‘puddle jumper’ type for army co-operation – slotted and flapped in every direction with excellent convex windows on both sides, out of which to lean; all it lacked was window boxes of aspedistras [sic] ! With flaps down it was hard to exceed 40.m.p.h., and landed about 25.m.p.h. which was funny for an aircraft of 4,000.lbs all-up weight. I don’t think we took any on lease-lend. 170. [underlined] PERCIVAL Q.6. – 2. GIPSYS. (MONOPLANE) 1942 [/underlined] A good looking clean 6/8 seat civil type. I seem to remember that it had reputation for being difficult to land, but I have no record of experiencing this or any other difficulty with it, in fact I liked it. Designed in the hope of commercial sales just before the war and built of three-ply and glue it had no future. 171. [underlined] North American Liberator. – 4. PRATT & WHITNEY. (MONOPLANE) 1942. [/underlined] Another American heavy bomber which came to Boscombe but which I did not fly. However there is quite a little story to tell about this aeroplane as I accompanied the Lyttel[deleted]e[/deleted]ton Mission to U.S.A to negotiate supplies of lease-lend aircraft. [inserted] X [/inserted] The numbers of those to go exceeded the capacity of a Boeing Stratoliner in which we were intended to be flown from Prestwick across the Atlantic, with the result that I found myself allocated to a Liberator used by the Royal Air Force Ferry Command. This flight in November 1942 was still something of an adventure and the conditions were worth recording. Aircraft No.592 had been stripped of everything internally; had no seating and only a few oxygen plug-in points along the sides. On seeing the absence of seats, stupi[deleted]e[/deleted]dly, I suggested installing a park bench down [page break] 64. the centre as at least something to sit on. After three hours sitting on this hard bench, I and the five others would willingly have thrown it overboard if we could, but to add to our discomfort we found that the next three hours had only returned us to our starting point, the weather having shut down on the American coast. The next two days were at stand-by with much shuffling of weather conditions, and that awful bench having been removed, we were suddenly told to be ready by 8 p.m. “We dressed as for the North Pole in sweaters, Sidcott Suits, flying boots, Mae Wests, gloves and helmets until quite immobile; and taxi out only to find the Stratoliner at the end of the runway with a flat tyre and we have oil pressure trouble. We taxi back, take off all the sweaty clothing and wait. By ten o'clock all is in order, and re-dressed in all that clothing again, off we go and this time for the full crossing.” [inserted] X [/inserted] The six of us were laid out on [deleted] t [/deleted] the floor head to foot with no heating and scarcely any light, and individual movement was virtually impossible. We flew mainly at 8000 ft. in clear weather until 200 miles east of Newfoundland when ice began to fly off the propellers and clanged against the fuselage in an alarming manner. At last we broke cloud over the New Brunswick coast at 2000 ft. By then a filter of light had crept into our airbo[deleted]u[/deleted]rn cell and I had managed to stagger upright and walked over the other reclining bodies to an Elsan situated right in the tail. This I found to be a reasonable seat when facing aft with a little window. So I rode the lavatory looking out over snow covered New Brunswick and Maine, a deserted pine-covered land with few signs of habitation until we landed at Presquisle, having taken sixteen and a half hours for that leg of the journey. After the finest breakfast I can remember at this staging post we re-embarked for Washington and I enjoyed the 750 mile journey, looking down on Boston, New York, Philadelphia and Baltimore from my point of vantage on the elsan. This took 4 1/2 hours; thus 20 hours and 45 minutes from England and considered a good trip. Shades of Atlantic travel 28 years [deleted] agg [/deleted] ago. [page break] 65. 172. [underlined] BEECHCRAFT TRAVELLER. – PRATT & WHITNEY WASP. (BIPLANE). 1942. [/underlined] In Washington I was taken in charge by Group Captain Heslop – ‘Slops’ of the British Technical Mission and a grand tour of the U.S.A. was planned to visit as many aircraft factories as possible. In this small single-engined biplane, with backstagger he flew me to Martins at Baltimore; a very gentle introduction to what was to follow. 173. [underlined] BEECHCRAFT [deleted] 2 [/deleted]. – 2. PRATT & WHITNEY WASPS. (MONOPLANE). 1942. [/underlined] This was a different six-seater type in which next day we visited Brewsters on Long Island, and eager to get my hands on this apparently viceless type I said I would fly it back to Bolling Field. But I discovered there were two vices which I had not observed with ‘Slops’ as pilot; the first was that it disliked a three-point landing and must be put down on the main wheels with the tail up: and the second that it had a method for operating the wheel brakes by ones toes pressing a little pedal attached to the rudder bar. This I had never experienced before and was my undoing. Correction of any swing on the runway required both rudder and toe-brakes and as the rudder effect at Ianding speed was not good I got tied up with trying to operate first one toe brake and then the other. The result was not only awful but could easily have been disastrous, as we swung right off the runway and dashed past various aircraft parked beside it, by the grace of God without hitting any, but completely out of my control. A shame-making performance in front of our Allies but ‘Slope’ took it and made no alteration to our grand tour! On November 16th in this same Beechcraft provided with a Naval crew from Anacostia Field we set out on our long journey, and I decided to leave the flying in better hands. Our first stop was Nashville (600. miles) which was a staging post for R.A.F. Ferry Command where many aircraft were being Re-fueled en route before flying the Southern Atlantic to Africa and the Middle East. Judging by the numbers I saw there this made flight delivery across the Atlantic an every day occurrence. Two and a half hours later we reached the smallest and most insignificant airport at Little Rock (famous for Eisenhower) and a further two hours on we arrived after dark over Dallas and Fort Worth, the lights of which made the most magnificent sight after so long a period of black-out at [page break] 66. home. Next day we visited Consolidated Aircraft at the famous Willow Run plant, almost exactly one miIe long under one roof and filled from end to end with Liberators under construction. Impressed I was, to say the least. Off again for another three hundred miles to refuel at Midland, and on this leg I renewed my personal acquaintance with the cockpit and commented “Beech is a nice quiet comfortable aircraft cruising easily at 185.mp.h. at 6,000 ft; is pleasant to handle except rudder is of little value, only disturbing the directional stability which it does to no mean extent if used at all coursely [sic]”. This may have been some of the cause of my shocking earlier arrival! "On again to Tuscon another 500 miles passing over Texas without seeing one mule or steer and no cowboys. Surprising how air travel misses the local industries – but oil wells plentiful". Yet another 500 miles to Burbank "On this leg I lay basking in the sun and gazed out over the Mexican border imagining tall hats and bronchos and not a little surprised at the barren rockiness of the country all the way from Fort Worth. We climbed up to some 12,000.ft to cross a high range at Palm Springs, and as it got dark the sunset became quite Egyptian, and soon below us was the largest carpet of lights I have ever seen en masse. So this was Los Angeles, almost unbeliev[deleted]e[/deleted]able in extent for so many miles in every direction. In such a fairy land it was quite a job to find Lockheed’s airport which was right in amongst all this. This is quite one of the sights of the world.” We had accomplished this journey in two full days and spent the next day visiting North American Aircraft, Douglas, Lockheed, Northrop and finished up with a wild ‘do’ in Beverley Hills. Next day a not surprisingly painful visit to Consolidated at San Diago where still more Liberators were being churned out by the hundreds. I am afraid I did not take as much interest in them as I should have done, and was only too thankful for the Beech to return me to Burbank and bed. Next day November 22nd began our return journey making Winslow to refuel man and machine, after 450. miles of very rocky barren country, and then proceeded 200 or so miles to Albuquerque – not the Mexican town I had expected but just another city, which I failed to appreciate in any way. [page break] 67. In the bitter cold of early morning we set off for Wichita nearly 600 miles on and here we had our first mechanical trouble with burnt out generators. Luckily we were at a small aircraft firm who fixed it soon enough for us to complete another leg as far as Kansas. By then the weather had turned sour to the East and next morning we had to make a stop at St. Louis and await clearance into Dayton some 300 miles further on. Cloud was very low, but we got in all right and next morning reached base at Washington. This was a most valuable survey of both American production methods, and advanced new design which I was shown. It was not all one way traffic as I was swapping our experience and difficulties in an attempt to help them avoid similar ones. At Burbank the 50 ton Constellation, doing its first flight trials, showed only too clearly the future of American civil transports. Elsewhere I had been shown mock-ups of 100 ton aircraft and engines of over 4,000.h.p., to say nothing of remotely controlled armament for the defence of big bombers double the size of current ones; eye-opening development we were unable to undertake in this country because of the strains of war. My last visits to Bell & Curtiss were made by airline to Buffalo, after which I flew on to Toronto joining up with the rest of the mission in Montreal where I found the same Liberator await[deleted]n[/deleted]ing clearance to Gander. By now the weather was changing from fog to snow and soon after landing we were grounded and remained snowbound for three days. During this time I took the opportunity in the quietness of a disused office to write my report. This I am glad to say was received favourably by those in high places, and was to have the desired effect of enabling this country to develop civil aircraft. After a calm and good crossing to Prestwick in nine hours, mostly at 15,000 ft but upwards to 23,000 ft towards the end (sucking an oxygen pipe and frozen stiff) I was glad to finish that journey of 12,000 miles and 85 hours flying, and land back on my native heath on the 28th anniversary of joining the flying Service, during which time I had never imagined I would fly the Atlantic. [page break] 68. 174. [underlined] AUSTER. – 130.h.p. GIPSY. (MONOPLANE). 1943. [/underlined] A puddle-jumper adopted by the Army which I found terribly noisy and toy-like, nevertheless it remained in the Service for at least 20 years, and must have been a better aeroplane than I judged it to be. In fact the Army Air Corps was founded on the Auster some of which still fly to-day. 175. [underlined] FOCKE-WULF. 190. – 900.H.p. B.M.W. (MONOPLANE). 1943. [/underlined] In June 1942 the first of this type was delivered into our hands intact by a German pilot who landed on Pemberry airfield on the South Wales Coast. I had immediately flown down there to have a look at this prize, and found ‘Batchy’ Atcherley had incarcerated the poor boy in a lavatory just to keep him safe. In dumb crambo the pilot had prevented anyone from climbing about the aeroplane by indicating it might explode. After a while, and as nothing had happened, valour overcame discretion and a full inspection ensued. We badly needed to know all about the F.W. 190. which was causing some havoc at the time, and was promptly put through its paces and stripped apart at Farnborough, which provided valuable information. Nearly a year later I flew this aircraft at Farnborough on a not particularly enjoyable flight. In the first instance the seat had been locked in the lowest position and I found my forward view completely blanked out. In any event it had a large circular nose which was not condusive [sic] to a good take-off and landing view even had the seat been higher. Second surprise was that I was warned that the left brake was much weaker than the right, but having got myself into the thing I was not deterred by that. The engine was an enormous thumping powerhouse and consequently it climbed off the runway at a very steep angle. Fore and aft it was much heavier than I expected, the ailerons being very good but with a tendancy [sic] to overbank [deleted] s [/deleted] while the rudder was without feel. The natural visibility on that day was poor which added to my discomfort at not being able to see anything ahead. With the nose down speed increased very rapidly and being thoroughly uncomfortable I made a landing approach at about 120/130.m.p.h. as at any lower speed there was considerable ‘sink’ with the nose well up. I touched down almost entirely [page break] 69. by feel cursing the inadequacy of the forward view, and as a result no doubt I thought it was soon time to apply the brakes. For the second time this was my undoing, for in a trice we swung off the runway to the right and I was careering across grass, once again missing parked aircraft by the grace of God, as rudder alone had no effect whatever in changing direction. We came to rest unscathed but in a muck-sweat with [deleted] t [/deleted] the though[missing letter] that valour is not always the better part of discretion. Two years later I was to meet the designer Dr. Kurt. Tank in circumstances I will describe later on. 176. [underlined] MILES M.28’. – 130 h.p. GIPSY. (MONOPLANE). 1943. [/underlined] Yet another Miles idea, and what a contrast to the one above. Heavily slotted and flapped with a stilt-like undercarriage, it was fool-proof and a child could use it. With an enclosed cockpit it was an amateurs delight and could land on the proverbial pocket handkerchief, but in spite of all that it did not sell. 177. [underlined] FAIREY BARRACUDA. – R.R. MERLIN. (MONOPLANE). 1944. [/underlined] I attended some carrier trials in H.M.S. Indefatigable when several new types were being tried for deck landing, I believe the Mosquito. At the end of the day which had been successful I was to be flown ashore to Prestwick and found awaiting me on the flight deck an old Barracuda. It was a typical Fleet reconnaissance type which looked a thorough christmas tree. The rear-gunner’s cockpit was enclosed by a perspex roof which as soon as I had been hurried through it was slammed down over my head, without knowing how to open the thing. The engine roared and before I knew where we were, we were over the bows and off. How thankful I was that I was not a crew member of a Barracuda. Practically deafened by the noise I was glad to touch down at Prestwick in one piece. Not my idea of a good aeroplane. 178. [underlined] VICKERS WARWICK. – 2. 2,000 h.p. CENTAURUS. (MONOPLANE). 1944. [/underlined] A development from the Wellington which introduced a remote control sighting system from the tail. I had a ride in the tail, piloted by Mutt Summers at Wisley and besides being im[deleted]n[/deleted]pressed with the gun-sighting [page break] 70. system, I was also impressed by the flexibility of Wallis’ geodetic construction on a much larger aeroplane than the Wellington. The movement of the tail and outer wings was rather sick-making but as I had seen a wing being tested to destruction in a test rig, when the tip of the wing flexed upwards to five feet, I had no qualms. 179. [underlined] SIKORSKY R. 4. HELICOPTER. – 1944. [/underlined] I have quite forgotten this single experience of handling a helicopter, but I see from my log-book that I did a bit of dual, and although not the simple thing I had imagined, managed to handle it fairly successfully in the time available. 180. [underlined] DAKOTA. – 2. PRATT & WHITNEY WASPS. (MONOPLANE). 1945. [/underlined] This was one of the unique of many unique flights that must have been made by this wonderful aeroplane, the war-time version of the great D.C.3. On the 11th April 1945, I received a message direct from Germany that our troops had just captured the design offices of Focke-Wolf and would I come at once. Hastily gathering together two or three experts we flew out of Hendon to Eindhoven and then Rheine, and found our H.Q. already established in some houses in Canabruk. It had been arranged that my little party would be at Focke-Wulf first thing next morning. [symbol] On arrival we were received as honoured guests and were at once taken to the board-room and introduced to the senior engineers. To my disappointment Dr. Kurt. Tank. had been flown back to England immediately after the place was captured, but his deputy proceeded to take us through their latest design projects beyond the F.W.190, and at once it was evident from the fact that each one of them was a swept-wing lay out, here was certainly something for us to learn about. At that time our aerodynamisist [sic] were only dimly aware of the great advantage that swept-wings conferred on future near-sonic and super-sonic jet aircraft design. German research obviously was ahead and I suppose there had never been a more open, or fruitful, design conference, moreover hard to believe such could happen within sound of the guns. After hours of interpreted discussion we were bidden to a feast [page break] 71. which I felt was guilding [sic] the lil[deleted]l[/deleted]y too much too acept [sic] from our enimies [sic] who were short of food themselves. Clutching a few bottles of Moselle perhaps I rather [deleted] hautil [/deleted] haughtily withdrew my party and flew back to London to find Kurt Tank himself. This I soon did, finding him in a bare room in Westminster under interrogation. Leaving him in the hands of experts I invited him to dine with my party at the Savoy that night. He was a man of great quality whom I thought deserved good treatment and perhaps a little fluid might enlighten us still more on his forward thinking. It transpired that what he wanted most was to be transported with the whole of his organization to England to continue the work they were doing. This raised the ugly question of employing Germans, and greatly to my disappointment the verdict was given that public opinion would not stand for it. [inserted] X [/inserted] America however took the other view with the result that most of the best technical talent was shipped to U.S.A. much to our disadvantage in the post war years; and the remainder were taken by Russia. Kurt Tank was sent back to Germany and eventually found his way to Argentine [sic], and later to India, where he designed in each country advanced fighters of the type we had been shown. This episode is a departure from the Dakota. Our pilot on this strange sortie was Lt. Daniels of the Royal Dutch Navy who had a reputation for coping with emergencies and who soon after was killed in one. He let me fly home as second pilot and I was glad for a few hours to take my mind off what I had heard and seen, which had the war not ended as it did, would have had us at great disadvantage. 181. [underlined] D.H. DOMINIE. – 2. 385 h.p. GYPSY QUEENS. (MONOPLANE) 1946. [/underlined] This was a classic design originating as the Dragon, and later the Rapide and finally converted into a flying class-room as the Dominie. It was one of Charles Walker’s most efficient civil transports of about 1937. vintage, and some are still flying at this present date of 1971. As usual with any D.H. aeroplanes, it was essentially functional, simple and in it's early days cheap. A delight to fly with absolutely no vices whatever, I am envious when I see one in the air and regret the number of years before I first flew it. [page break] 72. 182. [underlined] D.H. DOVE. – 2. 385. h.p. GYPSY QUEENS. (MONOPLANE) 1946. [/underlined] De Havilland’s contribution, before the Comet, to civil transport at the end of the war. It was a Rapide replacement, practical, modern, rugged and elegant, it was an immediate success and no less than 275. had been sold by the end of 1946. “A lovely aeroplane, handles like it’s namesake at an all-up weight of 7300 lbs. No noise, no vibration, excellent one engine out and very good view. I would say almost perfect”. Perhaps because it was the 21st. anniversary of my wedding day it was an appropriate one to be introduced to the Dove. It is still to be found in the air to-day in many parts of the world. 183. [underlined] BRISTOL FREIGHTER/WAYFARER. – 2. HERCULES. (MONOPLANE) 1946 [/underlined] Designed by Bristol’s towards the end of the war, in order to get a foot in the transport market. It was a straightforward workhorse, which by 1946 had proved it’s worth in a great many countries, as well as initiating Silver City Car Ferry business. I handled the aircraft with Cyril Uwins at Bristol, and having had a hand in egging them on with the project I liked it’s behaviour [sic] in the air. It felt solid on all controls but particularly so on the rudder; noisy indeed but not much vibration. Over 200 were built and many still in service. During the next four years, when C. in C. Technical Training Command I flew only my Avro. 19. 184. [underlined] D.H. CHIPMUNK. – GYPSY MAJOR. (MONOPLANE) 1950. [/underlined] The Tiger Moth trainer replacement which was designed and first built by D.H. Canada in 1945/6 but later transfered [sic] to England because of dollar shortage. In all over a thousand were produced at Chester. It was a lovely little aeroplane with beautiful controls and one in which one felt at home and joyful from the first moment of opening up the engine. I flew one very soon after retiring from the Royal Air Force and joining De Havilland’s at Hatfield. 185. [underlined] D.H.COMET. – 4. D.H. GHOST JETS. (MONOPLANE) 1950. [/underlined] A direct result of my visit to U.S.A. was the formation of the Brabazon Committee in January 1943. with the task of formulating [page break] 73. requirements for key categories of Civil aircraft we should need if Britain was to pIay any part in Air Transport after the war. The outcome was recommendations for, among others, a Jet transport; at first envisaged as an Atlantic mail carrier, but gradually evolved as a passenger type. The history of this development is fully set out in Martin Sharp’s “An Outline of the De Havilland History” as is also the story of the Dove and Ambassador – all three filling general requirements of the Second Brabazon Committee. The Comet first flew on 27th July 1949. – the first commercial jet airliner, but it was not until April 1950. that I had the exhilarating experience of flying with John Cunningham on one of his test flights. This is what I recorded in my log-book:- “A great experience, a ride to 40,500 ft. doing some stability tests: rate of climb quite astonishing and sitting inside one could not guess how quickly we reached 30,000. There is some noise but no vibration and one gets a distinct impression of being very high. Behaviour on controls seems excellent and most manoeuvreable [sic] at height. A marvellous sunset above a blanket of cloud and then down through it into the last twilight for a flarepath landing. Strange lack of appreciation of speed, especially when com[deleted]m[/deleted]ing downhill when we must have been doing about 500 m.p.h. No noise of wind rushing past the window, and as smooth as sitting in an arm chair. I wonder how passengers will take to height?” The first jet airliner service was inaugurated by B.A.O.C. on 2nd. May 1952. and led the world, and developed Commets [sic] are still flying to-day. Britain turned over a page in aviation history. 186. [underlined] D.H. BEAVER. – 450 h.p. WASP. (MONOPLANE) 1930 [sic]. [/underlined] The first in line of D.H. Canada’s S.T.O.L. types which have become world famous. The Beaver originated early in 1947. and was essentially designed to lift rough and ready loads to places where there was no other form of transport. It could be operated equally well on skis, whee[deleted]e[/deleted]ls or floats, in winter temperatures far below zero or in the heat of the deserts. From being an immediate success they have continued to operate in all corners of the world by fifty three airlines and charter owners [page break] 74. in about twenty seven countries. It was a lucky break for the Canadian Company who managed to aquire [sic] surplus engines at a cheap price, around which the design centred, but their great achievement was in the slow flying qualities which enabled it to take off and land in very restricted places. I found it very noisy but a grand robust, simple and pleasant aeroplane, very easy to fly with no tricks and a good view, and I thought everyone would like it, and there must be many happy users to-day. 187. [underlined] BOULTON PAUL BALLIOL. – R.R. Merlin (MONOPLANE) 1950. [/underlined] Designed as a turbo-propeller advanced trainer but the Armstrong Mamba for it did not suit and it was re-engined with a Merlin. It was nice to handle in the air, but very noisy, and the side-by-side cockpit was highly congested. The undercarriage was harsh and there was [deleted] a [/deleted] a distinct swing to one side on take-off and landing. Not very successful. 188. [underlined] AIRSPEED AMBASSADOR. – 2. 2600 h.p. CENTAURUS. (MONOPLANE) 50. [/underlined] Designed by Hagg as the third of the [inserted] Brabazon [/inserted] types constructed by D.H’s. It was a most elegant aeroplane carrying 49. passengers, and weighing just over 52,000 lbs. I flew in one on B.E.A’s. inaugural flight on the Paris service. This was a beanfeast with an excellent lunch provided on arrival. We returned at 15,000 ft. in cloud, and I thought the aircraft particularly smooth and comfortable, because on cruising power the engines seemed to be just ticking over. Alas only 22. were built but this efficient aeroplane, characterised by it’s high wing and triple fins and rudders, was operated for many years by B.E.A. as their Fleet leader, and is still doing good service for some charter operators. 189. [underlined] D.H. HERON. – 4. GYPSY QUEENS (MONOPLANE) 1952. [/underlined] This was a development from the Dove capable of carrying 15/17. passengers, which was, and still is, used as a short range feeder liner selected by the Queen’s Flight and by industrial firms. “A nice aeroplane the wings of which flex a good deal in turbulence, which made it a little tireing [sic] to fly in rough weather. Excellent on any one or two engines out conditions which caused no big change of trim. A bit sluggish laterally especially at low speed when rudder is needed to help bring up a wing.” [page break] 75. 190. [underlined] LOCKHEED CONSTELLATION. – 4. PRATT & WHITNEY. (MONOPLANE) 52 [/underlined] Ten years after seeing the prototype on the tarmac at Burbank I boarded one of B.A.O.C.’s to take me to Australia. In 1952 the ‘Connie’ was about the Iast word in airline travel and for comfort and ‘gracious living’ – much food and wine – it certainly was excellent. However although 3 to 4 days for that journey was regarded as fast, it needed some stamina all the same. Our route was London – Zurich – Beirut, where a night stop was made after a 12 or 14 hour day. A very early start next morning for Karachi, reached after about ten hours flying; an all-night flight followed to Calcutta for breakfast, and then another 7 or 8 hours to Singapore and another night stop. Early in the morning on to Jakarta, where we were kept locked in a room while a little brake trouble was being rectified: then another 8 or 9 hours to Darwin for a meal followed by an all-night flight ending at Sydney. In the heat of the Far East the stops on the ground felt worse by virtue of stepping out of an air conditioned aeroplane which, however monotonous, was more comfortable. The conditions of flight were almost perfect especially crossing the Alps at about 20,000 ft with visibility well exceeding one hundred miles in any direction; but after Calcutta we entered the much talked of Inter-Tropical Front area where the dreaded Cu-nim (Cumulo Nimbus) clouds towered upwards to well over 20,000 ft. This entailed flying through the tops; sometimes in severe turbulence, but one was thankful that ‘Connie’ didn’t have to push through the dense centres which were very much to be avoided. The object of this visit was to establish a D.H. base for Blue Streak at Woomera, then in its very early days, when life in the scorching desert could not be regarded as funny. After completing our business in Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney, I flew back in a Quantas ‘Connie’ again, as far as Columbo and thence relaxed by P & O taking the best part of 3 weeks to get to England. I made those same long-stage flights several times during the fifties, and each time they seemed to get longer and more interspersed with uncomfortable experiences. The pallid passenger in the next seat who would sleep all over one through the long droning night, quite [page break] 76. immovable until literally heaved back into his own chair; the trials of being st[inserted]a[/inserted]cked up over Sydney in a violent storm and taking an hour or so to be lowered progressively from 15,000 ft to ground level, only to find the customs jammed full and still insisting on a ridiculously close inspection of the baggage of collapsed and overwrought passengers – Australian customs are not noted for their consideration. The many delayed take-offs and uncertainty of destination – these incidents and more led to the phrase ‘With time to spare go by air’. But this was still the piston-engine era – has the jet set changed all that? I will give one answer later. Within these long journeys I flew intercity in D.C. 4's and D.C.6’s Convairs and a Percival Prince, none of which I feel deserves individual mention except to extol the D.C.4. and say the D.C.6. never matched it because of unreliable engines. When things got too bad the magic name of De Havilland usually got me an invitation from the Captain to visit the flight deck and, perhaps a little unfairly, I passed a happier time with the air crew learning how things worked than with the motley assortment of passengers passing their time badgering the poor stewardesses who must w[inserted]a[/inserted]lk miles during one of these long stages. 191. [underlined] ARGONAUT. – 4. R.R. MERLIN. (MONOPLANE). 1952. [/underlined] A post-war conversion of the D.C.4. to take Merlin engines – R.R. entry into the airline business. While it gave the aircraft a better performance, it was the noisiest ever thought of and I was glad my experience of it was only a short trip to Madrid rather than a long journey to Africa. In spite of the noise they did good service for some operators and are still to be found flying on charter routes. 192. [underlined] PERCIVAL PROVOST. – 2. 500h.p. LEONIDES. (MONOPLANE). 1953. [/underlined] “A pleasant high-wing monoplane very quick on lateral, and good on other controls. It had accommodation for 8 or 10 people and was much less noisy than its smaller sister the Prince”. [page break] 77. 193. [underlined] VICKERS VIKING. – 2. BRISTOL HERCULES. (MONOPLANE). 1954. [/underlined] About 1944 George Edwards took over from Rex Pierson as chief designer for Vickers and once again in order to get a foot in on post-war civil aviation they developed the Wellington into a transport. At first this was done by geodetic fabric-covered wings on a new metal fuselage, but soon produced new metal wings and so turned it into a new machine. Ten years later I had the pleasure of flying through Central Africa in one, from Johannesburg to Nairobi, which was then called ‘the milk run’. After two false starts we got going for Lusaka, Nodola, Karme, Abercorn, and all stations North to Nairobi. This was a lengthy proceeding taking eight or nine hours, unloading and loading stores and supplies of every description. The aeroplane functioned all right but was a wearisome trip although most interesting to see how the daily necessities were being conveyed by air from town to town. Near Nairobi the wonderful effect of many thousands of flamingo, rising from the lakes as we passed over, was as if a pink carpet had suddenly been spread over the water, or a pink veil slowly waved over the desert. Here I joined a Constellation and via Khartoum, Cairo, Athens, Rome rumbled my way to Heath Row. While the Viking may not have been the most efficient civil aircraft, it was a well executed quick conversion of a military type, which entered service as soon as the war ended, and lasted the best part of twenty five years. 194. [underlined] VICKERS VISCOUNT. – 4. R.R. DARTS TURBO-PROP. MONOPLANE. 1953. [/underlined] This type was included as an addition to the requirements of the Brabazon VI, and became VI.A. Just as the Comet aimed to be a jump ahead of the world, so too did the Viscount become the first turbo-propeller civil airliner. George Edwards, and Hives of Rolls Royce, made a beautiful job of this highly efficient aeroplane, which introduced completely new standards of passenger comfort with much greater speed than previous piston-engine types. There were of course many 'doubting Toms’ when we first proposed this step forward, but still in service to-day it remains a winner. To discover for myself its fine qualities I made a journey in one to Istanbul and back in July 1953. The stage times were [page break] 78. London – Rome 3 1/2 hours; Rome – Athens 2 1/2 hours; Athens – Istanbul 2 1/2 hours. The smoothness in flight without any vibration and relative quietness was a great advance and no wonder the Viscount proved itself in so many countries. In those days the plain jet could not equal the turbo-propeller for fuel consumption, especially on shorter stage distances, but this was to change after about ten years. 195. [underlined] VICKERS VANGUARD. – 4. R.R. TYNE TURBO-PROP. (MONOPLANE). 1959. [/underlined] Following the success of the Viscount, George Edwards introduced a much larger and more powerful aircraft capable of seating about 100 passengers. However time was aginst [sic] him on this project, because the rapid development of the plain jet was fast eliminating the fuel consumption difference, and in spite of the good economics which the Vanguard showed in operation only twenty were built for B.E.A. The jet transport has clearly surpassed it on nearly all routes, both short and long, nevertheless the Vanguard is doing a good job in freighting, and I imagine will continue to do so for a long time. In 1959 I went on an inaugural proving flight with a bonanza lunch laid on at Nice. I often wonder who enjoyed it, because, not only did we take-off from Heathrow straight into cloud but remained solidly cloud bound, and were diverted to Rome in the same cloud. There we pecked at a bowl of spaghetti, hurriedly re-embarked and never saw the ground again until touch-down at London. A very happy day! 196. [underlined] BRISTOL BRITANNIA. – 4. BRISTOL PROTEUS. (MONOPLANE). 1959. [/underlined] Starting as a gleam in Auntie’s eye as a medium-range Empire transport at 94,000.lbs all up weight on four Centaurus piston engines, the designs of this type changed, and grew, to ultimately produce a long-range transport ending up at a weight of 175,000.lbs. Unfortunately it had a chequered and long-delayed introduction into service, being dogged with Proteus engine troubles amon[inserted]g[/inserted]st others, with the result that by the ti[deleted]e[/deleted]me it began operating for B.O.A.C. it had clearly become the last of the turbo-prop mainliners. The fact that it was able to practically double its weight in ten years, speaks volumes for the high standard of engineering of the structure. The ‘Whispering Giant,’ as the [page break] 79. Press christened it, still whispers it’s way around the world carrying goods and passengers at very economical rates and if it became famous for nothing else it might be regarded as the initia[deleted]o[/deleted]tor of the ‘package tour’ for to-day’s holiday makers. 79 aircraft were built so they should bring happiness to a great many yet. I have never had the pleasure of a long ride in one but was allowed to handle it briefly on a test flight, so briefly that I cannot comment. 197. [underlined] D.H. TRIDENT 2. – 3 R.R. Spey[deleted]s[/deleted] Jets. (MONOPLANE) 1966. [/underlined] This was to be my first, and so far only, experience of a journey by jet and I looked forward to apprising the latest product of my old firm. As soon as I boarded I settled down in a window seat prepared to watch all proceedures [sic], only to be followed by a man who plonked himself down alongside me, and it didn’t take long for my senses of smell and hearing to tell me he was pixilated. I did my best to glue my attention to the window and revel in the enormous surge of power thrusting us steeply upwards into our steady climb, and trying to guess our altitude and position as we crossed the coast. Throughout there was a rambling voice telling me he had come from Salt Lake City where he and his mother had emigrated from England (how I wished his mother had kept him there) but had spent a night with friends in London, and now he “thought” he was going to Cairo (I wished he was there). By now he was on his second large Scotch and we were at cruising altitude of about 40,000 ft. and I really could not bear this obnoxious piece of England any more. I quietly asked the Steward to take my passport to the Captain with a request that I might be invited to join him on the flight deck. This invitation was forthcoming and I spent about an hour listening to the familiar jargon of the aircrew and watching the Alps in miniture [sic] pass beneath us. As soon as we had left Genoa behind, all preparations for descent were being made and I returned to the Cabin hoping that my plagueing [sic] passenger would be asleep. But not so, as soon as I arrived back at my seat he saw me from across the aisle, where he had been leaning on two others, and clutching a still full glass he staggered across to me, [page break] 80. fell over, shot the glass full down my front followed by himself. The steward got him into another seat, mopped me up, and of all things put a little stewardess alongside him to look after him. This was hardly the best thing to do as he started to ogle her and and [sic] call for another glass. I was nevermore thankful to get shot of anyone, and after landing the last I saw of him was weaving his unsteady way up a corridor and sprawling over the B.E.A. desk, presumably trying to express his earlier thought about Cairo. So the ‘Jet Set’ havn’t [sic] improved conditions even if the aircraft have. [underlined] CONCLUSION [/underlined]. Variety is said to be the spice of life. I hope my experiences with nearly two hundred different aeroplanes have provided the reader with variety at least; and perhaps a little spice. The contrasts spread over these – and there have been many more that did not come my way – in the span of one’s life are truly an amazing record of the ingenuity and skill of man’s rapid progress in engineering; I doubt whether exceed or even equalled before. In the begining [sic] it was said aviation would become the means of uniting the peoples of this world in brotherly love and understanding. Whatever else it has done, and is doing, it has not [inserted] yet [/inserted] done that. Rather the reverse; and as for my brotherly love, I hope he fell into the Nile! From an all-up weight of under a ton, aircraft are now operating at two hundred and fifty tons, and designs of up to five hundred are in sight. From thirty miles an hour, thirteen hundred is now with us in the sky: and whereas twenty thousand feet in eight minutes was a freak climb, the latest fighter makes forty thousand in four minutes an everyday possibility. One could go on drawing such vast contrasts in many directions – from the carriage of a pig by Moore-Brabazon to prove that pigs can fly, to the arrival of plane loads of three or four hundred humans intent on having a good time, or if in uniform of destroying each other. Readers must draw their own conclusions what aviation is doing for the world; I can not. But I do know I’ve enjoyed it all. ENFORD[deleted character], E Wiltshire. 16.8.71. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource A Reminiscence of the Flying Characteristics of Many Old Type Aircraft Description An account of the resource A detailed analysis of very early aircraft and their flying characteristics. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Air Marshall Sir Ralph Sorley Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Great Britain England--Felixstowe England--Eastbourne (East Sussex) England--Bembridge Atlantic Ocean--Spithead Channel England--Cowes England--Stroud Scotland--Montrose England--Sunbury England--London Monaco Egypt--Cairo Iraq--Baghdad England--Felixstowe England--Aldeburgh Iraq Middle East--Kurdistan Middle East--Palestine Jordan Iran Middle East--Euphrates River Syria Yemen (Republic)--Aden Singapore Australia Borneo China--Hong Kong England--Kent United States New York (State)--New York France--Paris Nigeria South Africa--Cape Town Yugoslavia Norway Portugal Spain Denmark Japan Belgium Argentina Austria Brazil Canada Chile Greece China Lithuania Estonia England--Weybridge Scotland--Island of Arran England--Kingston upon Thames France--Dunkerque England--Hatfield (Hertfordshire) Newfoundland and Labrador New Brunswick Maine Maine--Presque Isle Washington (D.C.) Massachusetts--Boston Pennsylvania--Philadelphia Maryland--Baltimore Washington (D.C.)--Anacostia Tennessee--Nashville Arkansas--Little Rock Texas--Dallas Texas--Fort Worth Texas--Midland Arizona--Tucson California--Burbank (Los Angeles County) California--Palm Springs California--Los Angeles California--Beverly Hills California--San Diego Arizona--Winslow New Mexico--Albuquerque Kansas--Wichita Missouri--Saint Louis Ohio--Dayton New York (State)--Buffalo Ontario--Toronto Québec--Montréal Newfoundland and Labrador--Gander Netherlands--Eindhoven Germany--Rheine Germany--Osnabrück India Switzerland--Zurich Lebanon--Beirut Pakistan--Karachi India--Kolkata Singapore Indonesia--Jakarta Australia Northern Territory--Darwin New South Wales--Sydney South Australia--Woomera South Australia--Adelaide Victoria--Melbourne Sri Lanka--Colombo Spain--Madrid South Africa--Johannesburg Kenya--Nairobi Sudan--Khartoum Greece--Athens Italy--Rome Zambia--Lusaka Zambia--Ndola Zambia--Mbala Heathrow Airport (London, England) Turkey--Istanbul France--Nice Utah--Salt Lake City Italy--Genoa Atlantic Ocean--Firth of Clyde Italy France Arizona Arkansas California Kansas Maryland Massachusetts Missouri New Mexico New York (State) Ohio Tennessee Texas Utah New South Wales South Australia Victoria Northern Territory Egypt Sudan North Africa Ontario Québec Germany Indonesia Iraq Kenya Lebanon Netherlands South Africa Switzerland Pakistan Sri Lanka Turkey Yemen (Republic) Czech Republic Slovakia England--Gloucestershire England--Hampshire England--Herefordshire England--Lincolnshire England--Suffolk England--Surrey England--Sussex England--Great Yarmouth Mexico Zambia Pennsylvania Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Navy Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Memoir Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 82 typewritten sheets Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1971-08-16 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MLovattP1821369-190903-75 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Maureen Clarke Peter Bradbury aircrew Anson B-17 B-24 Battle Blenheim C-47 Chadwick, Roy (1893-1947) Defiant Dominie Fw 190 ground crew Halifax Harvard Hudson Hurricane Lancaster Lincoln Lysander Magister Manchester Me 109 Mosquito Oxford Photographic Reconnaissance Unit pilot Proctor RAF Boscombe Down RAF Calshot RAF Eastchurch RAF Hendon RAF Henlow RAF Martlesham Heath RAF North Killingholme RAF Pembrey RAF Prestwick RAF West Freugh Spitfire Stirling Swordfish Tiger Moth training Wallis, Barnes Neville (1887-1979) York https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2093/34670/SWeirG19660703v090019.1.jpg 64815d0f22836188e04c84a203863aac Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Weir, Greg. Flannigan, J and McManus, JB Description An account of the resource Seventeen items. Collection concerns Flt Sgt James Flannigan who flew as a wireless operator/air gunner on 77 and 76 Squadrons in 1941, he failed to return from operations 31 October 1941 and J B McManus (RAAF), a Halifax pilot who flew operations on 466 Squadron in 1944-45. Collection contains their log books, mementos, parade notes, medals, documents and photographs. Collection catalogued by Nigel Huckins Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-26 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Weir, G Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Page from log book Description An account of the resource Page showing courses, postings and aircrew assessments. Includes 466 Squadron. Shows E.F.T.S and other training courses as well as post operational career and pilot and other qualifications. Attached is head and shoulders portrait photograph of a pilot wearing shirt with brevet and medal ribbons. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1943 1944 1944 1945 1946 1948 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Air Force. Bomber Command Royal Australian Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Log book and record book Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Printed page with handwritten entries and one b/w photograph Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SWeirG19660703v090019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Review Oct 2024 1663 HCU 21 OTU 466 Squadron Advanced Flying Unit aircrew Flying Training School Heavy Conversion Unit Operational Training Unit pilot training https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2080/34435/SWeirG19660703v010003.1.jpg ff7f1b9429e33ecd6938316ed306fcd6 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Weir, Greg. Taylor, Alexander Description An account of the resource Three items. Sub-collection concerns Alexander Taylor (Royal Australian Air Force) who flew operations as a wireless operator or special operator on Halifax of 462 Squadron form November 1944 to may 1945. The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-26 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Weir, G Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource List of sorties Description An account of the resource List of four sorties flown between Korean air bases and an air base in Japan. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1951-08 1951-11 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Korea (South) Korea (South)--Pusan Korea (South)--Yŏngch'ŏn-si Korea (South)--Seoul Japan Japan--Iwakuni-shi Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Australian Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Log book and record book Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One sided handwritten document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SWeirG19660703v010003 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Review Oct 2024 C-47 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/329/34152/VSmithNG[Date].mp4 0888bd07d7449d0751f52edf2dd2e13c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Smith, Norman George Norman Smith Norman G Smith N G Smith N Smith Description An account of the resource Two items. An oral history interview and a video interview with Norman George Smith (b. 1924, 427226 Royal Australian Air Force). He flew 10 operations as a pilot on 463 Squadron. The collection was catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2016-12-03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Smith, NG Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document NS: Norman George Smith. I: Beautiful. Other: Great. I: Yeah. And can you tell us a bit about your background? What was your position? Like, what were you doing in World War Two? NS: Well, I went through training to be a pilot from Clontarf up to [unclear] and then up to Geraldton. I finally got my wings as a pilot after quite a while. I was training and then I hopped on to a plane, or a train and went over to Sydney. Boat to America and after a while we finally managed to get on a boat to go to England. And at Hednesford, England we went, eventually went to a squadron, 463 Squadron and started bombing Germany. I managed to get ten in before the Yanks [pause] and everybody else would have said well ok the Germans had enough of us so I switched from 463 to 467, got rid of all my five English crew and got another five Australians then. So I had an all Australian crew and we were waiting for our ground crew to go out to start on Japan. The Yanks dropped that silly little bomb and that finished the whole lot so I had to come home. And I still stuck in the Air Force until 1947 when I had a bit of an argument with the CO and he reckoned I was going to go on a Court Martial and I said, ‘No, I’m not.’ He said, ‘What are you going to do?’ And I said, ‘Take my discharge.’ Which I did. Within a week I was out of the Air Force and from then I’ve just had quite a few different jobs. Farming and all the rest of the place. Hotel trade and I bought a pub and here I am. Retired here at Meadow Springs. I: Beautiful. What aircraft were you flying? NS: I started off on Tiger Moths, Ansons, Amberleys, Lincolns, Stirling and finished up on Lancasters. I: So was that when the final — NS: That was the final one in the Air Force. Yes. I’ve had a few flights since but not taken off. A friend of mine had his own little aircraft and I used to go with him and he’d take off and hand over to me and he’d start taking photographs everywhere. Coming back he’d say, ‘Ok. We’ll land.’ So I went down to Bunbury once and I started coming in, got within about fifty yards of landing and he said, ‘I suppose I’d better take over.’ And I said, ‘Well, you’d better.’ I: Yeah. NS: But I’ve been, I went inland. They tried to get an aircraft flying from [Mandurah] I went up on that about three times. But they wouldn’t let him. They reckoned it was too dangerous with all those boats and that flying around, floating around in [Mandurah] so they stopped him from taking cruises. So that stopped that one. I: That’s it. Just bring us back to World War Two and your deployment there. Could you like, could you, how would you describe your time there? It was obviously a very tense time. NS: Well, did quite a few different tests and things like that before before I got on the squadron. But I thoroughly enjoyed it over in England and bombing the Germans. I think over, sort of Cologne which I bombed after the war finished in Europe, got a new aircraft and went up the river. I finished up in the mountains and managed to get back home alright with a new navigator but he wasn’t too good so I had to get another one. But by this time of course I was experienced and I could get rid of anybody that hadn’t come up to my standard. I: Yeah. Ok. NS: I managed to get ten. Ten trips over Germany. France and Germany. Dortmund. One of them was up the bowl of Norway. One was up really, pretty near in to Russia and the aircraft was turned for home after doing the bombing trip and after a while I said to the navigator, ‘You’d better find us a new place because we’re not getting home. We’re not going to get home on this course.’ And we, when we, after we landed we found out that the navigator, the aircrew had been told the wrong air speed and direction and that’s why it took us so long to get home. We just landed and the blooming navigator, no the engineer came up from the ground crew after a while and asked us how we got home. And I told him and he said, ‘Yes,’ he said, ‘Well, you couldn’t have flown any more. You had no more petrol left in the tank.’ So — I: Lucky. NS: Oh, we had quite a few days it was a bit dicey but most of the time we enjoyed it. I: What was the most dangerous part of your, like obviously like bombing trips? Did you have to — NS: Oh, over the Rhine. I suppose it would be around about the area south of Germany into France. More or less where they had all the aircraft making manufacturers and things like that and that was one of the target places except when the [pause] we were flying one night or one day, no. One night. We saw a plane come up, whizz past us. And the next morning we went over Germany in daylight and we spotted what it was. It was a German fighter plane that was going straight across us speeding. It was one of their new jets and that was a bit troublesome because everybody that saw it went like a beehive and were trying to get into the middle of all the others on the outside were trying to get into the middle again once this fella got. But they only had about a half an hour flying time so after a half an hour they disappeared which was quite exciting that we were still flying. I: I couldn’t even imagine it. What [pause] how, how important do you think, you know your role was? You know, being the pilot and enabling this kind of thing. NS: Well, I had to make sure that the crew behaved themselves of course and being an officer anybody beneath me had to salute me and all the rest of it. But every now and then I used to borrow my navigator, I used to borrow his jacket and go into the sergeant’s mess and have a few beers with him. So one day in the Officer’s Mess they, one of the officers brought a plane over from Canada with a big bar of cheese from Canada so we had a real cheesy night. But oh, I enjoyed it actually and the ladies were very nice too. A lot of young girls used to know as soon as they saw an Australian airman they tried and get on with him and we used to have quite a few pals having a drink with the girls. But oh no I finished up marrying a lass after the war finished in England and she came out and I had five daughters with her before I kicked her out one day. Oh well, she was a very, wasn’t [pause] she was more interested in other men then me. After five kids the best one of the lot, five daughters is the youngest one. She’s looking after me now. Doing all my blooming office work and looking after my money and what have I. I: It’s good to have. NS: So I’m having a good retirement. I: Beautiful. Can I just ask again how, were there any close calls while you were up in the air? NS: Oh. I: Like other planes trying to take you down or — NS: Just about every night we used to have to dodge the spotlights, the searchlights and every now and then the German planes would attack us and we had to dodge them by doing a corkscrew away from them. But well one day we did a daylight over Germany and we came back and landed and just as we landed a German pilot in his single engine aircraft shot up the aerodrome we landed at and he come to shoot up the plane I’d just got out of. And I was standing behind it with the driver, the bus driver that was picking us up to take us into the briefings and I knocked her over and jumped on top of her underneath the truck and the bullet came through between my navigator and the wireless operator sitting in the truck. They were sitting and the bullet came in behind them. And he got, I believe he got the, whatever it was, gold medal or some blooming thing from the Germans. And he, he deserved it because he shot up a flew planes and they hit our bomb dump and set a few bombs off in that, in the aerodrome and shot off home and oh no, he was a, as far as I was concerned he was a blooming nuisance. But he was a real pilot with a great deal of energy and guts. I: That was the German one. NS: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I: So did the plane, your plane actually get shot up then? NS: Only once and that was a couple of bullets through the wing, one of the, starboard wing but it didn’t do a great deal of damage. It just played a bit of funny games with the slats and when we got home the navigator, the engineers on the ground looked at it. There wasn’t much damage. I: That’s good. NS: But they managed to be able patch it up and fly again the next day. I: Beautiful. Not a close call then. NS: But — I: Yeah. Did you want to continue? NS: Pardon? I: Did you want to continue? Sorry, I interrupted. NS: Oh, I could carry on for hours and hours but I suppose but — I: It’s all good. NS: I think it was a pretty good idea of what it was like. Everybody used to look up to the airmen. The ground crew used to whistle and whistle when they were around anywhere and, but over some German soldiers and English soldiers lining up each other in the trenches and our boys used to stand up and wave arms at us. But they reckon we were pretty good. I: I’m sure you guys were. Can you go through again the last, the last mission I guess that you guys had before you got sent back home? NS: Yeah. Well, you see I had to transfer to a different squadron to go out to have a go at Japan but of course while we were waiting for our ground crew the Yanks dropped that bomb and that finished the Japs off too. So we hadn’t much to do so we came, they sent us home. I arrived home on New Year’s Eve and my father shook hands with me and he said, ‘Hello Norm.’ And I said, ‘Hello Dad.’ He said, ‘The first thing you’ve got to do here is get rid of that bloody Pommie accent.’ So I said, ‘Oh, rightio. I’ll try my best.’ But I must have, the time I spent in England I must have learned how to talk English instead of Australian. I: And how long was that? How many years? NS: Where? In England? I: England. Yeah. NS: Well, I joined up in ’43 in the Air Force and started. Spent about five, six months in the Air Force in Australia getting to learn all about it and then the rest of the time I flew over, went over when I went to England. I managed to fly a few different aircraft in England and then I got, then I got on the squadron. But then I had time to do ten operations over Germany when they knew we were too good for them. They handed in their blooming battle powers to everybody. So that’s when we decided to come home. Aye, I had a good time in the Air Force. Obviously, we didn’t have much idea what was going on out there and when they told us that the Japs had given up the ghost I didn’t, for a while we didn’t know why. But then we were told by engineers. Blooming people that knew more about it than we did. Then we were told all about dropping the bombs on Japan and they turfed it in. I: Was that Hiroshima? NS: Yeah. I: Was that Hiroshima? Yeah. NS: That’s right. Yeah. I: Ok. NS: We didn’t know that the Yanks did it until about a week later. Then they finally told us what had happened but like all blooming big bods in whatever you are, wherever you are in any business all the big bosses don’t tell the young ones what they were doing or how they did it and we just had to guess what was going on mainly. That’s about all. But we had, I had a good time and enjoyed life until I got out of the Air Force and from then on I really had a good time. I: That’s great. NS: I’ve had a, just came back from three weeks holiday going flying at Darwin. On the Ghan from Darwin down to [pause] up the Murray River cruising back down to Adelaide on a boat there. A liner. Come home. It took six days to get home on the liner to Fremantle and it was a good trip. I: Sounds beautiful. NS: I’m looking for another one now. I: Yeah. That’s what you have to do now don’t you? If I could just ask you quickly you had your photo taken a few weeks ago. NS: Yeah. I: As part of this for the National Archives. What do you think about something like that? I mean it’s — NS: Well, I think that us survivors from the war should have a bit more say and a bit more kudos you might as well say and a lot more people should know about us than just the First World War. And I admire them because they put up with a lot of blooming trouble. More than we had to do. But most of, from what I can gather the Army and the Navy in the Second World War were a little bit better off than the First World War but at the same time there hasn’t been much said about the Second World War. It’s all about the First World War and I don’t agree with that but still — I: Do you feel left out that all the focus is on the centenary of the ANZACS that’s coming up? You know this is the seventy fifth anniversary of World War Two but no one is really talking about that. It’s all the focus is on — NS: Yeah. Yeah. I, I appreciate that and notice that most people nowadays they can’t go back to the First World War. They just say, ‘Oh yeah.’ And ignore it really but the Second World War, well they had a lot of sons and brothers and uncles and aunts and all the rest of them were in the Second World War and they come home and they told a lot of stories that a lot of people don’t know about. I think that’s the right thing to do. Get to know that the Second World War was just about as bad as the other wars. Although Vietnam and all those other wars they were the wars that shouldn’t be [pause] but I don’t know. I don’t like this present Australian government. Extra fellas going over to the East now. He just allowed another three hundred and eighty. Three hundred and eighty odd extra with the so called last lot. I: Yeah. NS: The old bosses, our bosses, the Prime Minister is not too good at that. When is he going to let some more go over? I: I know. Yeah. NS: Nobody knows but he will. I can guarantee you whatever the Yanks tell him he’ll do. I: Could you tell us a bit about your medals? NS: Well, a lot of medals I’ve got at the moment but there are another two that are missing. They’re trying to get them. My daughter particularly is being, and the lassie here she’s been telling my daughter about it and my daughter is ringing up everybody trying to get them to present me with the other two medals that supposedly might make an appearance someday. It’s like everything, the parliament, it takes people ages to get people to listen. I: That’s it. Is there anything, is there anything you wanted to add at all? NS: No. No. I don’t think so. I: All done. You’ve covered everything. Other: I’ll just get some [unclear] I: Yeah. Right. So we’ll just keep chatting. NS: Yes, give it away. I: Yes. How old are you? NS: Ninety one. I: Ninety one. NS: That was in March this year. I: Oh, happy birthday for last month. NS: 8th of March. I: Happy birthday for then. We’ll keep talking for a little bit. It’s not, yeah it’s just to get different shots of you. So if you, what are you planning to do for the rest of the day? NS: Pardon? I: What are you planning for the rest of the day? Do you have any plans? NS: I’m going to get out of these glad rags and get some washing — [recording paused] NS: And after that I met this lassie and went out to Tasmania together. And since then we’ve been together every, she’s in the caravan park. Tonight she’ll be here with me and have tea and all her meals and I usually do that for the weekend and she just sits back and watches television. I: Oh, beautiful. That’s really cute. Yeah. It’s Friday today, isn’t it? I forgot. Yeah. NS: Oh well. Anyway, it’s an interesting life and I reckon the next eight nine years until our seventy five I thought another twenty five years and I’ll be a hundred. And every time I knock a birthday off I think that’s one less, one more. NS: Counting down. I: Navigator, wireless operator and mid-upper gunner. NS: Yeah. I: Would, so, so you’re the pilot. NS: That’s me there. I: Would that be like, what was the operation called? NS: So that, that was taken out of the unit. I’ve got a bigger one of the whole squadron. Other: Which one you are? Captain. I: Ok. NS: That was the bomb aimer that made a mistake. It was one of our own planes and we both would have gone down. I: Yeah. NS: It was fortunate that we survived it. The navigator was very good. The rear gunner he spotted a plane coming up on our tail one day. No, once we, I used to borrow his coat and jacket and go into the Sergeant’s Mess. I was an officer. [pause] [unclear] was one of them. Twice Berlin. A couple more down there. I: Ok. Let’s find some — NS: You can see whether you hit the target. Over in the unit over there I’ve got [unclear] they might drop it at, ok they might do it at about ten thousand feet. I: Yeah. NS: But at a hundred thousand feet if there was a mistake if you — I: Yeah. NS: Were suddenly going down. I: Yeah. What, what height were you flying when you were dropping the bombs? Depends? NS: Usually about ten thousand [pause] I’ve got another two yet. I: Yeah. NS: It had been mislaid. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Norm George Smith video interview Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Australia New South Wales--Sydney United States Great Britain Germany Germany--Cologne Germany--Dortmund France Japan New South Wales Germany--Ruhr (Region) Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Air Force. Bomber Command Royal Australian Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Moving image Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Twenty nine minute colour video Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending revision of OH transcription Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context VSmithNG[Date] Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1947 1943 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource N G Smith Requires A related resource that is required by the described resource to support its function, delivery, or coherence. Norm Smith gives very brief description of his career. He trained as a pilot in Australia then on to England and 463 and later 467 Squadrons, post war, remaining in RAAF until 1947. Flew Tiger Moths, Ansons, Wellingtons, Stirlings and the Lancaster. Describes some of his ten operational sorties, being strafed by German fighter on landing after an operation and sighting one of the German jet fighters. Towards the end of video briefly discusses three pictures of his crew. Video recorded in a formal setting, Norm head and shoulders, in civilian clothes with medals wearing his fore and aft aircrew training cap. Description An account of the resource Norman George Smith completed his Australian training as a pilot before being posted to the UK. He was posted to 463 Squadron where he completed ten trips before the war ended. Although he was an officer Norman would borrow his navigator’s jacket to be able to join his crew in the Sergeant’s Mess. On one operation the crew were told the wrong windspeeds and direction which meant the journey home was longer than expected. When he landed he was told they were entirely out of fuel. He witnessed the German jet fighter speeding past his aircraft. He was then posted to 467 Squadron to bomb the Far East. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Julie Williams 463 Squadron 467 Squadron aircrew Anson bomb dump bombing flight engineer Lancaster Me 262 military living conditions navigator pilot Stirling Tiger Moth training Wellington wireless operator https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1801/31796/PStewartEC17120011.1.jpg 76d1d1a206f2717fc0d4a84877e0cc48 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1801/31796/PStewartEC17120012.1.jpg 23da5d0fdbd3e5fed127a2941324c1d4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Stewart, Edward Colston E C Stewart Description An account of the resource 272 items. The collection concerns Edward Colston Stewart DFC (b. 1916, 87436 Royal Air Force) and his wife, Flight Officer Ann Marie Stewart (nee Imming, b. 1922, 5215 Royal Air Force). It contains his log books, documents, bank notes and photographs. He flew 50 operations as a pilot with 1446 Ferry Flight and 104 Squadron. After the war they served in the Far East. <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2013">Ann Marie Stewart collection</a> <a href="https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collections/show/2012">Bank notes</a> The collection has been donated to the IBCC Digital Archive by Paula Cooper and catalogued by Barry Hunter. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-02-24 2022-06-21 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Stewart, EC Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource South East Asia Command Headquarters Description An account of the resource A scrap of paper from Headquarters referring to the Japanese Expeditionary Force. On the reverse is an indecipherable handwritten note. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One typed sheet (damaged) Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PStewartEC17120011, PStewartEC17120012 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Japan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.