1 25 10 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2620/46176/MMackieNAJ88410-210811-51.jpg 17dedc23b20be07a49d7eae004e6d5bc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mackie, Norman A J N A J Mackie Description An account of the resource 135 items. The collection concerns Squadron Leader Norman A J Mackie DSO, DFC (b. 1920, 88410 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, correspondence, documents, and photographs. He flew operations as a pilot with 83 Squadron and was shot down on his second tour after 52 operations. He evaded to Switzerland and subsequently re-escaped through France to Spain. On return to Great Britain, he retrained on Mosquito and flew a further 40 operations on 571 Squadron. He continued to fly in the RAF after the war. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Laura Carter and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-08-11 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mackie, NAJ Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource A ditty Description An account of the resource A humorous piece about characters and events as described on Parish Notes on 69 Canberra Squadron in 1955. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1955-02-19 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1955-02-19 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany Germany--Gütersloh Germany--Weeze Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Poetry Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One page typewritten document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMackieNAJ88410-210811-51 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending text-based transcription Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Maureen Clarke 69 Squadron gremlin https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2620/45999/MMackieNAJ88410-210811-250001.2.jpg 73d18306eb8275cf4fe73a23edce1cd4 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2620/45999/MMackieNAJ88410-210811-250002.2.jpg 183f97cc848f7f62b60bf89cc34cf570 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mackie, Norman A J N A J Mackie Description An account of the resource 135 items. The collection concerns Squadron Leader Norman A J Mackie DSO, DFC (b. 1920, 88410 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, correspondence, documents, and photographs. He flew operations as a pilot with 83 Squadron and was shot down on his second tour after 52 operations. He evaded to Switzerland and subsequently re-escaped through France to Spain. On return to Great Britain, he retrained on Mosquito and flew a further 40 operations on 571 Squadron. He continued to fly in the RAF after the war. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Laura Carter and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-08-11 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mackie, NAJ Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Abbreviated list of losses of II Gruppe NJG 4 Description An account of the resource One page with list giving dates, crew names, callsign, location. Second page has date, location, aircraft details, crew names. Aircraft mentioned: Me 110 and Do 217. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1942 1943 1944 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany France Germany--Quakenbrück France--St.-Dizier (Haute-Marne) France--Châlons-en-Champagne France--Vitry-le-François France--Coulommiers Region Germany--Hassloch (Rhineland-Palatinate) France--Tavaux Germany--Hanau France--Laon Region France--Paris Germany--Gütersloh Germany--Lübeck Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wehrmacht Wehrmacht. Luftwaffe Language A language of the resource eng deu Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One page handwritten and one page typewritten document Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMackieNAJ88410-210811-25 Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending text-based transcription. Other languages than English Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Do 217 Me 110 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/2620/45926/LMackieNAJ88410v4.1.pdf 23fa824ef6e6b71c22b9fbbe2938890d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mackie, Norman A J N A J Mackie Description An account of the resource 135 items. The collection concerns Squadron Leader Norman A J Mackie DSO, DFC (b. 1920, 88410 Royal Air Force) and contains his log books, correspondence, documents, and photographs. He flew operations as a pilot with 83 Squadron and was shot down on his second tour after 52 operations. He evaded to Switzerland and subsequently re-escaped through France to Spain. On return to Great Britain, he retrained on Mosquito and flew a further 40 operations on 571 Squadron. He continued to fly in the RAF after the war. The collection was loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Laura Carter and catalogued by Nigel Huckins. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2021-08-11 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. Some items have not been published in order to protect the privacy of third parties, to comply with intellectual property regulations, or have been assessed as medium or low priority according to the IBCC Digital Archive collection policy and will therefore be published at a later stage. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/collection-policy. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Mackie, NAJ Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Norman Mackie’s Royal Air Force Pilots Flying Log Book. Four Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Log book and record book Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One booklet Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending review Review Oct 2024 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LMackieNAJ88410v4 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Description An account of the resource Norman Mackie’s Pilots Flying Log Book from 4th April 1950 until 31st August 1956. Posted to 12 Squadron as a pilot. On 22 October 1950 took part in a commemorative poppy drop over the El Alamein Cemetery as recorded in newspaper clippings. On 12 December 1950 Squadron Leader Mackie’s aircraft crashed and was written off carrying out a 3 engined emergency overshoot. There were no injuries. In June 1953 posted to No. 8 Advanced Flying Training School followed by 209 Advanced Flying School to pilot jets. Attended 231 Operational Conversion Unit in summer 1954 for light bomber and photo reconnaissance courses. In October posted to 69 (Photo Reconnaissance) Squadron in Germany as Commanding Officer. During early 1956 a detachment to of 69 Squadron was based in Malta. Served at RAF Binbrook, RAF Shallufa, RAF Dalcross, RAF Bassingbourn, RAF Gutersloh, RAF Laarbruch, RAF Luqa, RAF Weston Zoyland. Aircraft flown were Lincoln, Tiger Moth, Proctor, Canberra, Anson, Washington, Chipmunk, Varsity, Oxford, Gloster Meteor, Prentice. Includes various newspaper clippings of the poppy drop, and Squadron Leader Mackie as Officer Commanding 69 Squadron. The latter includes a hand written note that the photograph purporting to be Mackie receiving his DFC was of the wrong person! Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Great Britain. Royal Air Force Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Great Britain England--Cambridgeshire England--Lincolnshire Scotland--Inverness Egypt Germany Germany--Gütersloh Germany--Weeze Malta Egypt Egypt--Alamayn North Africa Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Nick Cornwell-Smith 12 Squadron 69 Squadron Advanced Flying Unit aircrew Anson B-29 crash Flying Training School Lincoln Meteor Oxford Photographic Reconnaissance Unit pilot Proctor RAF Bassingbourn RAF Binbrook RAF Dalcross RAF Gütersloh RAF Laarbruch RAF Luqa RAF Shallufa RAF Weston Zoyland Tiger Moth training https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/596/25236/LLathamPA[Ser -DoB]v1.pdf 072ab5be42f614e5f379d1947dfc140a Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Latham, Peter Peter Anthony Latham P A Latham Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Latham, P Description An account of the resource Two items. An oral history interview with Air Vice Marshall Peter Latham (b. 1925) and his log book. He flew operations as a pilot with 26 Squadron. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peter Anthony Latham’s pilots flying log book Description An account of the resource Pilots flying log book for Peter Anthony Latham, covering the period from 22 February 1945 to 24 January 1948. Detailing his post war flying training and flying duties with 26 squadron. He was stationed at RAF Perth, RAF Cranwell, RAF Keevil, RAF Fassburg, RAF Chivenor, RAF Sylt, RAF Ahlorn, RAF Zeltweg, RAF Gutersloh and RAF Gatow. Aircraft flown were Tiger Moth, Harvard, Spitfire, Tempest and Auster. His log book also lists him as having flown Dominie, Oxford, Vampire, Meteor and Sea Fury. This item was sent to the IBCC Digital Archive already in digital form. No better quality copies are available. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Great Britain. Royal Air Force Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mike Connock Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource One booklet Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Text. Log book and record book Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context LLathamPA[Ser#-DoB]v1 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Air Force. Fighter Command Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Austria Germany Great Britain Germany--Celle Region Austria--Zeltweg England--Devon England--Lincolnshire England--Wiltshire Germany--Berlin Germany--Gütersloh Germany--Lower Saxony Germany--Sylt Scotland--Perth Europe--Frisian Islands Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1945 1946 1947 1948 Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Review Oct 2024 aircrew Dominie Flying Training School Harvard Meteor Operational Training Unit Oxford pilot RAF Chivenor RAF Cranwell RAF Keevil Spitfire Tiger Moth training https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1338/20807/PLovattP19010022.2.jpg 39a7d884872a0d2264fcb25d4e43d0e4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lovatt, Peter. Album 1 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-27 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Lovatt, P Description An account of the resource 43 items. The album contains photographs of Peter Lovatt's service and family life in the UK and Singapore. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peter Lovatt and RAF Gutersloh Description An account of the resource Seven photographs from an album. Photo 1 is a brick building captioned 'RAF Gutersloh 140 Wg HQ 1946'. Photo 2 is a bed. Photo 3 is five airmen in khaki, sitting round a table. Photo 4 is Peter leaning against a fence post, captioned 'Self'. Photo 5 is Peter and friend standing at the same fence, captioned 'Ted Milligan Self 1946'. Photo 6 is Peter standing, in uniform, on a wooden dinghy. He is wearing a life buoy over his shoulder and the dinghy is sitting on wooden beams. Photo 7 is of Peter in uniform standing on a frozen lake. In the distance is an arched bridge. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Seven b/w photographs Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Photograph Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PLovattP19010022 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany Germany--Gütersloh Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1946 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1946 aircrew https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1338/20805/PLovattP19010021.1.jpg 5582b0e65550e022d09622ed4f36ea05 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lovatt, Peter. Album 1 Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-27 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Lovatt, P Description An account of the resource 43 items. The album contains photographs of Peter Lovatt's service and family life in the UK and Singapore. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Peter Lovatt's friends Description An account of the resource Five photographs from an album. Photo 1 is a head and shoulders portrait of a women in the WRNS. Photo 2 is four soldiers arranged round a desk, captioned 'Gutersloh 1946'. Photo 3 is a head and shoulders portrait of a man, captioned 'Jack Baird 1946'. Photo 4 is the outside of a large brick building, captioned ' Gutersloh 1946 140 Wg HQ 1946'. Photo 5 is a group of men and women captioned '2770 Sqn. Party 1946'. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1946 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Five b/w photographs Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Photograph Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context PLovattP19010021 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force British Army Royal Navy Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany Germany--Gütersloh Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1946 aircrew https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/1202/11775/AWilliamsonKA180115.mp3 202e76c15c7618a10ffd32c7da2908e0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Williamson, Keith Alec Sir Keith Alec Williamson K A Williamson Description An account of the resource An oral history interview with Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Keith Alec Williamson (1928 - 2018, 582252Royal Air Force). The collection was catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-01-15 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Williamson, KA Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document CB: My name is Chris Brockbank and today is Monday the 15th of January 2018 and we’re in Burnham Market talking with Sir Keith Williamson. Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Sir Keith Williamson about his early days and his life as a result of being in the RAF. Sir Keith what are your earliest recollections of life? KW: I suppose it’s living in Leytonstone in East London. I don’t remember a great deal about it. My, my father had had been in the Army during the war and had been badly injured twice. Badly injured twice, and was maimed and he was at the time, I remember, a junior civil servant. But he had, in fact, I subsequently discovered that he’d at the age of fourteen or fifteen he’d gone off on a ship from London docks as a cabin boy and gone out to South Africa and found he didn’t like being a cabin boy any more so he’d jumped ship and went to live with his step sister who was at that time living in, married and living in Johannesburg and they were very well off compared with the rest of the family. And he was back on leave in England when war, A, was imminent and then B was declared and he and my uncle joined the Territorial Army and went, went off. My uncle was very badly injured as well. It’s actually quite, it is actually quite interesting of course. My uncle was injured by the same shell that maimed my father and killed a friend of theirs and when my father came out of convalescence, he went to see the parents of the friend of his and met my mother who was the daughter, and married her. So, our dynasty, what there was of it emerges from a shell hole in, in Belgium. And I remember, I remember singing, “When the Poppies Bloom Again,” and every November the 11th was a very melancholy experience in our household. And I have an older brother who is four years older than me and he was at that time sent away to, well, he wasn’t sent away actually he was a day boy but at Bancroft School which was a minor public school and I took an examination for a scholarship to Bancroft’s and became a boarder at Bancroft’s and my brother subsequently became a boarder. At that time my mother, I think they you can claim that they were the, not social climbers, I’d rather, and I’d like to put it rather nicely. Anyway, anxious to get away from the East End of London. A whole host of people were in the East End of London and we moved out in to Essex and lived, lived at Ilford in Essex at a whole new building estate that people flooded to and thought we were one up on everybody else which we weren’t of course. And at that time my father was still a junior civil servant but my, my grandfather was a, an undertaker in Leytonstone and by our standards he was quite wealthy. I mean we, we had a car before anybody else had a car and I think it came from the profits of people dying around Leytonstone. And it was while I was at, a boarder at Bancroft’s that we saw the Battle of Britain overhead and one night we had a stick of bombs that dropped right across the school which I thought was great fun and I think we had the next day off which was very important. But my parents didn’t think that was great fun and so I was plucked out and sent to a grammar school in Leicestershire at Market Harborough and it’s, I then joined the Air Training Corps because actually I couldn’t imagine anybody not wanting to be in the Air Force and not wanting to be a pilot in the Air Force. But of course, by the time I I joined the Air Training Corps the war was coming towards its end and training had stopped, virtually stopped and I discovered girls. I’d been at a boy’s boarding school and it was a mixed grammar school and it was absolutely marvellous. They were delightful girls and I still get, keep in touch with a number of them. But I, I thought of nothing else there. I didn’t do any work at school so I wasn’t terribly well qualified for anything. So, I joined the Air Force initially at Halton and we went to, to Cranwell and at Cranwell we had a massive advantage of having that lovely building right in the middle of where we were training. And although during the war it had been just an ordinary Flying Training School at the end of the war the Flying Training School was closed and it was becoming a Cadet College again and they were looking around for people to populate, populate the, the College. So, I thought that was for me. I think that was pretty cocky of me because I was by no means top of our hamper. There were some much cleverer people than me but in the end six of us got scholarships. One went off to, to Cambridge and the five of us were Cadets at Cranwell in much the same way that had happened before the war. I mean, what’s the name? Whittle had been a Cadet and had gone to, to, had been a brilliant pilot and had gone to Cambridge and become a brilliant scientist. There were a number of others who had done exactly the same thing so nothing particularly remarkable about my, my progress. But I loved it at Cranwell. I got a lot from it because at that time when I left being an aircraft apprentice and became a Cadet, a Cadet with people who had been at normally Sixth Form College, Sixth Form at that stage in their school and I’d very quickly found that we were certainly on a par with them and I was, I was higher up the hamper at Cranwell as a Cadet than I was up the hamper as an apprentice. And of course, then I, we joined a squadron. I joined a Vampire squadron. Marvellous. Every day was Christmas Day. We went to Germany and of course the Korean War was, had broken out and we all volunteered for that and they took the Sabre people from Fighter Command and took the ground attack people, that’s F84s and Meteors by the time we got out there from Germany. From Germany. So, I joined an Australian squadron, 77 Squadron doing ground attack and that really was, it opened my eyes because the Meteor should never have been sold to the Australians. I mean it was, it was a disgrace. We knew that they were, it wasn’t up to, the Meteor was fine for 1945 but it was hopelessly outdated by the time I got to 77 Squadron in, well the early ‘50s. The Americans, and they’ve done it time and time again put so much money into solving the problems of supersonic flight they, they very quickly discovered that thin wings, swept wings were the only answer whereas you look at a Meteor it's got the thickest wings I’ve ever seen and the straightest wings I’ve ever seen. It was not about to solve the problems and its performance in Korea was really rather pathetic although it was flown with great elan by, by the Australians. The subsequent ground attack people from the RAF who went out to, they flew the F-84s and benefited from the, not swept wing but benefited from very thin wings. And so, when I came back from Korea I thought well that’s fine, I’ll, I’ll now take over a flight on what squadron was begging to have me and discovered that nobody actually wanted me and I went off to be an ADC which is a fate worse than death to anybody who aspires to be a pilot. I, my boss was an irascible bugger but he liked, I’d only just got married and he liked Pat. He didn’t like me but he liked Pat which was fine. I do remember he was C-in-C Home Command and amongst the other many other things that Home Command looked after, all the odds and sods there, there was NAAFI and he was president of NAAFI. And I can remember I used to, when he was going off on a trip that I wasn’t involved in I’d stand at the door and snap to attention and shut the door and think good I’ve got rid of him for a couple of hours and I’d go and fly. They had a very nice Communications Flight at White Waltham where we were and when he was in a very bad mood and I could tell when he was in a very bad mood I used to shut the door very quickly and get him away as quickly as I could. And on one occasion he was in a terrible mood and he was cursing everybody so I got him away and as he was driving away, they had Humbers in those days with a window between the driver and the back and I saw him move the window and he was, his mouth was going at the sergeant driver. When the sergeant got back, I said to him, ‘He was in a pretty bad mood. How did you cope?’ He said, ‘He was no problem. No problem.’ He said, ‘We were going across Lambeth Bridge and he said, “You bloody fool. You’re going across the wrong bridge. This is not where we should go.”’ And this driver ignored him completely and said, ‘No. We’re on the right way, sir.’ And of course, by that time they’d driven up outside NAAFI Headquarters and it was Imperial House and it had enormous letters, “Imperial House,” written right across it. And he looked, he got out, looked up at it and said, ‘Jewson, somebody’s moved the bloody place.’ [laughs] He was, I was, gave me a massive, when I had an ADC and I was getting cross, not that it happened very often of course and his face, his lips were turned down I used to say to him, ‘Don’t look at me like that Richard. I was an ADC to an even bigger shit than me.’ But anyway, I I went, for three, for three years I think I was an ADC and then I turned up at, in those days our postings were done by the Director General of postings 2, in a building in Holborn. And I arrived. Then this squadron leader said, ‘We want you to go and be a flight commander at —’ And I thought, oh good. Good. And it was some ground training place. I forget which. It was one of, one of the Kirton Lindsey or one of these places and so I said, ‘I’ll do anything, I’ll even volunteer for CFS rather than than go on the ground. I must fly.’ And so I did. I went to CFS which I didn’t enjoy and then went in to the flying training more. I went, I was an examiner for a time and I couldn’t wait to get out of it. And now what do I, oh I’ve missed out a Hunter. Where did I go to Hunters? I forget now. Dear God. Other 2: Would you like a cup of tea? CB: We’ll just pause a mo. [recording paused] CB: So, the Hunter’s bit was actually in Germany. KW: Oh yes. CB: So, what was that? KW: What do you mean what was that? CB: No. Where was it? KW: Well, Bruggen. Bruggen first and they were, this was the time of the Sandys Acts. CB: Oh yes. ’57. KW: And so Bruggen, the Bruggen fighter wing was closed overnight and I moved to Oldenburg as a flight commander on Hunters. And then Oldenburg was handed back to the Germans and we moved to Ahlhorn for a short time before coming back to England. That must have been when I went to CFS. Yeah. So, I’ve, I’ve been taking you down the wrong line. CB: I think you went to CFS in ’58. KW: That’s right. Just after Sandys. CB: Yes. Did QFI and then examiner. KW: Yeah. CB: What didn’t you like about CFS? KW: That’s a very good question. CB: Because you were a pretty experienced bloke like this in action as well as in fighter duties. KW: No, I [pause] it’s a very good question. I’m not sure what I didn’t like about the CFS but I didn’t like the atmosphere. I came from a fighter squadron and I, I didn’t like examining either. Sitting on my hands watching chaps make absolute arses of themselves. No. I can’t, I can’t elaborate. CB: Is it frustrating training novices? KW: Yes. CB: And — KW: Yes, it is. CB: But CFS was learning how to train. KW: Yeah. CB: How to do the assessments and training. KW: You only, only sat at CFS for six months, or five, six months and then you go and train and I certainly didn’t like saying to a chap, ‘I’m sorry but you’re never going to make a pilot.’ Taking the rug from under his feet. I never liked that. And knowing, knowing that the chap had not much natural ability made the effort of flying with him that much greater and no, I didn’t like it. Preferred to be on my own. CB: But you stayed there quite a while before you moved on, didn’t you? KW: No. CB: Did you? KW: No. I stayed for five months course and then I went to Syerston and I was there for about eighteen months I suppose. And from — CB: What were you doing there? KW: Well, that’s Flying Training School. And from there I, I was made an examiner so I used to fly around all the schools. So, I didn’t like doing that either. It’s surprising I stayed really. CB: What did they give you to go around the schools in? KW: Oh, whatever. Whatever was flying at the time. All the basic flying training was a Jet Provost, Piston Provost [pause] Tiger Moths. All sorts of funny aeroplanes. We used to go around the clubs as well and fly with, because their Cadetships were given and we used to examine the instructors. CB: This was for flying scholarships. KW: Yes. For flying scholarships. CB: Yeah. So, after that came to an end — KW: Well, Staff College of course. CB: 1962. KW: Yeah. Yeah. And that was marvellous. I actually did feel, for the first time I think, part and parcel of the Air Force hierarchy. That’s a bad way of putting it. Felt I might have some chance of adding to the service. There was a feel, this was at Bracknell there was a feeling of, I don’t know [pause] it’s very difficult to explain. Families, we most of us lived in, actually in Bracknell. We were there for a year. Got to know each other extremely well from all sides of the Service. Got to respect them too. I thought it was, when they combined all three Staff Colleges together they’d, Greenwich, Camberley and Bracknell disappeared from the view. I thought that a terrible mistake and I had nothing whatever, I refused to have anything to do with what was going on down at [pause] What is that place down in Wiltshire? CB: In where? Where? KW: In Wiltshire. CB: What? KW: The School. The Combined School. CB: Oh right. Now? Shrivenham now. KW: Shrivenham. CB: Yes. KW: Shrivenham. CB: Right. We’ll stop there for a mo. [recording paused] KW: Squadron leader. Wing commander level. The Army have always added a major level. If you haven’t been to Staff College by the time you are a major or while you are a major you’ve had it and the Navy have never taken Staff College seriously and they, they’ll send you to Staff College if they haven’t got anything else to do with you. So, the three Services have got completely different ideas on what — CB: Yes. KW: And I’m sure we had it right. CB: At squadron leader, wing commander level. KW: Yes. CB: Yes. KW: Yes, because when you’ve spent so much money training a Phantom pilot for instance you wanted to keep him flying for as long as possible. When he comes to the end of his flying, immediate active flying then that’s the time to take him away. And I do remember subsequently when I was commandant at Bracknell feeling that our job there was to take these super pilots from the squadrons, get their feet on the ground so that they realistically acknowledged the sort of desperate pressures that are on the Service. Money. Largely associated with money. And we had one very good flight commander, his name was John [Hough?] I remember and after about two terms he stood up one day, he said, ‘I’m fed up with learning what we can’t do and what we can’t have. I want to know what we can do.’ And I thought, yeah. You’re absolutely right. We do want to know what you can do but you can’t do it until you know what you can’t have. And it’s this old dilemma. Do we tell them too much? Subsequently of course he and a number of others immediately left the Service and went to fly for British Airways. Anyway, I enjoyed my year at Bracknell and Pat enjoyed it too. What was next? CB: So, it set you up well for your next role after Staff College. KW: Oh, yes that was, this, it’s actually interesting. In my day they used to pin what you were, where you were going to go when Postings Day came and everyone was excited about where they were going. They used to pin a notice on the board rather like degrees at university, you know. And I thought I really had drawn the short straw because I, I was down to go to a posting, a personnel posting job. CB: You were a wing commander at this stage. KW: No. CB: Oh. KW: No. I was a squadron leader. CB: Oh. KW: And I was a wing, a postings job looking after squadron leaders in several Commands and I thought this was disaster. I mean, this is, just precisely what I don’t want to do and it turned out to be absolutely super. I was working with a very nice, it was a hell of a grotty little office in, looking out over a block of flats in, in Holborn and I tell you nothing goes on in those flats that’s worth looking at. I used to sit there watching them. And I was with a very nice chap. He was posted, promoted and posted and in came what I thought was the worst choice in the business because it was, I don’t know if you ever knew John Nichols, he was the only chap who shot down a Mig in — [pause] CB: In Korea. KW: In Korea. CB: Yes. KW: He was a glamour boy. He was, he was good looking. He’d got a DFC from shooting down. He came in and I thought, I’m not going to like you. And for the next nine months we did nothing else but laugh. I mean, he was, it was tremendous fun and at the end of that he posted me to command 23 Squadron. Lightnings at Leuchars. And I realised actually that if you’re immersed in personnel business it’s a small world. They all looked after themselves of course there and I was looked after very well. So, I did. I went up to Leuchars for two years and I must say that that was certainly the best tour of my, my service life. It was absolutely marvellous. Nought to thirty thousand feet in two and a half minutes, you know. Marvellous. From a standing start. Marvellous. CB: Near vertical climb, was it? KW: Yes. Yes. Yes. Had to be careful. Supersonic all the time. Supersonic. Not climbing. I mean, you had to be very careful about — CB: Yeah. Over land. KW: Over land and things. CB: What was the great thing about the Lightning? KW: Well, I mean just the performance. The performance was non parallel but the, I mean it was a bloody awful aeroplane to service them but it was super to fly and the serviceability rates were rather pathetic. CB: Had a higher rate of engine fires than most planes. KW: Yes, it did. CB: Why was that? KW: It did. Well, it, they had two engines. One above another. That’s never been tried before. That’s to keep the profile low and of course it made the servicing very difficult and very often you had to take an engine out to change something like a cabin altimeter. Altimeter. That’s an exaggeration, you didn’t have to do that but little things could cause big problems. But it was super. Super flying. And I went from Leuchars to Gütersloh as station commander and they had Lightnings there of course as well. Lightnings and Hunters. But none of this time has got anything to do with Bomber Command. CB: It hasn’t, but it’s got a lot to do with your career. KW: Well — CB: Because as a fighter man you wanted the ultimate in fighter aircraft, didn’t you? KW: Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, of course. CB: And, and when you were doing your Leuchars role what was the main activity there? KW: Well, there was a great deal of intercepting of, of the Soviet aircraft coming, coming around. They were perfectly entitled to be there but we, you get in to this extraordinary business of letting them know that you’re there and that you know that they’re there and that means the next time they come you’ve got to make sure that they know that. So, it’s a, it’s a never-ending game really. CB: Yeah. And your ground radars are crucial to that. KW: Oh yes. CB: Particularly the ones in Shetland. KW: Well, they’re not Shetland. They were. There were radars in Shetland but the three main control places were at Brawdy. No. What am I talking about? Brawdy. [pause] Neatishead. That’s terrible. I can’t remember the name. CB: Boulmer, one of them, is it? KW: Boulmer. CB: Boulmer KW: Boulmer. CB: Yeah. KW: That’s right. Not Brawdy but Boulmer. They were actually the two most important ones. Particularly Boulmer which was the master controller over and there was never any, any problem but one was doing an awful lot of fuel transfers and meeting up with the Victors from Waddington. CB: How long would a sortie last? KW: Sorry? CB: How long would a sortie normally last? KW: Well, how long is a piece of string? Seven, eight hours and it used to get uncomfortable on that. CB: So, you’d be refuelled three times for that. KW: Well, at least three times. Yes. Yes. And we used to do a firing camp at, in Cyprus. Flying out to Cyprus. The French were being as always as helpful as possible that they could be in preventing us from refuelling over their, their soil so we had to go all the way around. CB: So, when you were in Gütersloh you’ve got a completely new scenario there so what’s the, what’s the activity? KW: Well — CB: You haven’t got Bears coming down from the north. KW: No. But you’re very close to the, the front line so you’re, we were the nearest airfield to the, the Soviets so we used to have refuelling aircraft positioned out there constantly practicing refuellings should we need it. We never, never got serious like it did had in the Vampire days. When they were shooting down Lincolns and things. CB: Yes. Your challenge was to avoid going over the frontier, was it? KW: Certainly, in Vampires it was. It used to be terrifying, you know because it was a very crude recovery system in those days and you’d transmit and they’d take a bearing on on your transmission and tell you what heading you should make to get to Gütersloh. And if, if it was 270 or anywhere near 270, you thought my God I’m over Eastern Germany. But we didn’t actually have any, any problems in those days. Looking back. CB: Did the, did the Soviet Bloc put up their own fighters if you did that? Were they near the frontier or not? KW: They, they would if we, we used to have exercises going down to Berlin, down the three corridors. Not I might say with Lightnings, and if we strayed either way they would put up aircraft but they never, I mean they knew it was a game and we knew it was a game [pause] And I loved Berlin. Berlin was, it was run on the German economy but everything that we had enjoyed was free to us so that, they had marvellous opera, a marvellous concert theatre. The C-in-C was part of the Kommandantura at the end of the war and so he had a house in Berlin to justify his position. The, the Army chap had a house and when I say a house magnificent houses they were too. And we used to go out there quite a lot from Germany. CB: But you wouldn’t take the Lightnings. KW: We didn’t take Lightnings. CB: Was that because their manoeuvrability was restricted? KW: No. It was because serviceability, the length of runways everything was agin it. No. We used to go up in a little old Pembroke which was very useful. CB: And in Gütersloh then, what was life like there? KW: Well, I used to take the visiting firemen around Gütersloh and say, ‘Take a good look at this. This is why the Germans lost the war and we won it.’ Because they had a row of hangars that were ideal for the Me109 era but were absolutely no good at all for the Lightning era. They had an airfield that couldn’t be lengthened but was too short for comfort for aircraft like Lightning like we were landing on. It’s an exaggeration to say short but it was not as comfortable as many of the other runways we landed on and there were all sorts of other things that showed that our planners in between the wars who planned these beautiful double ended hangars so if, if you had one sick aeroplane at one end it didn’t block the entire hangar full. You could wind the doors open from the other side. Well, they didn’t have that. If you had a sick aircraft at the front of your hangar you had to repair it or, or not use that hangar. And they had very small hardstandings. So, we were very well looked after, between the wars. They weren’t. CB: They just didn’t want to put money in to it. KW: But I suppose they were building up at such a ferocious rate they wouldn’t. I don’t know. CB: And how did the community get on with the local community at Gütersloh? KW: Very, very well actually. The Gütersloh town itself was very wealthy. Even in my day it had the CLAAS agricultural machinery. And you see CLAAS — CB: Oh yes. KW: Machinery all around here. It had the Miele washing machine factory which is, gets top marks as a, as the best and most expensive washing machine and there was one, oh Bertelsmann, which is the largest book publishing organisation in Europe if not the world now. And we knew the bosses of all three and they were very good to us. Of course, out of our league in money terms but [pause] And Herr Miele, he was a lovely man. He, he was awarded an OBE. That was just after we left actually for his work for Anglo-German relations. He was a lovely man. He said to me, he said, ‘In 1936 my father he said, “Karl. Karl you must join the Nazi party.” And he said, “Dad why should I do it? Why do I want to join the Nazi party? I don’t want to join the Nazi party. I’m not joining the Nazi party.” He said, “Karl, one of us has got to join the Nazi party and it’s not going to be me.”’ CB: Pragmatic. KW: And he, he also said at one stage, I mean this is a chap who was a multi-millionaire. He said, ‘I turned to my boss —’ He’d obviously got, right at the end of the war got a job at Gütersloh Airfield. ‘I turned to my boss, Sergeant Smith —' and Sergeant Smith was the, the quartermaster and he was Karl Miele’s boss. It didn’t last very long I might say. Yes. So we enjoyed it very much in at Gütersloh. It was of course reputed to have been Herman Goering’s favourite airfield but then I think we would say that about every airfield out there. CB: So where did you go after that? KW: I went to the first course on the IDC courses. Not the, what the hell do they call the course now? [pause] Isn’t that terrible? CB: What was the IDC? International something, was it? Defence. KW: Defence College. Yes. CB: Yes. KW: But Imperial Defence College. CB: Oh Imperial. Yes. KW: But Imperial became a dirty word. CB: Yeah. KW: So, it’s a year’s course at Belgrave Square. CB: What rank are you at this point? KW: I was a group captain. And I did the course and at the end of it I was promoted and became, well after a short tour in, a very short tour in Whitehall I became an air commodore and was director of air plans. CB: And before that didn’t you go to run the Royal College of Defence Studies? KW: No. That is [emphasis] the Royal College of Defence Studies. CB: Ah. That’s what it is called now. KW: Yes. That’s right. That’s what it is called now. CB: Right. Okay. So, in plans, was that interesting? KW: Yes. It is the crucial air commodore slot in the Air Force there’s no doubt. It’s [pause] it was demanding but, but being at the centre of everything nothing was going on in the Air Force that I didn’t know about. CB: So, this is strategy, equipment? KW: Yes. CB: Personnel. The lot, is it? KW: Yeah. Equipment and the fall out in personnel from that of course. CB: And from there that’s when you went to run the Staff College. KW: Yeah. Yeah. CB: So, having been a student before and then returned to be the director then — KW: Commandant but — CB: Commandant. KW: Yeah. I did it for a year and I was very cross that I was taken out and sent to SHAFE for, to be Assistant Chief of Air Staff, Policy and Plans. I didn’t realise at the time but that is a key job in NATO terms and I think it was Denis Spotswood when he was at CAS who was determined to keep that job in the Air Force. Not to let the Navy or the Army or any other nation get hold of it and I think almost every subsequent CAS has has done that job. CB: So SHAFE is Supreme Headquarters Allied Forces Europe. KW: Yeah. CB: So you’re tying together all the NATO activities. KW: Yeah. In theory but of course what you’re really doing is, is wresting control as far as you can from the Americans. NATO is an American organisation understandably because they put the most of the money in. CB: Yeah. Yeah. KW: But if you get a piece of string and tie it to all the American posts and shake it until all the non-American posts fall out you are still left with a coherent set up. The Americans could run it themselves. He was determined if we were going to have somebody in the policy and plans organisation that, and I only did that for a year and I was grateful because A it was very busy, B trying to understand the American system and it was all American system. It was really quite difficult. I used to say that if you took away all the Americans from the staff at SHAFE you would be left with absolute chaos because you’d got Greeks, Turks, French subsequently, not in my time but the Spaniards, Belgians but all rowing their own, hoeing their own row rather like the European Union. But the Americans, they’ve got it under control. But it was — CB: So is there a moral in that which is effectively you’ve got to make sure that everything clicks in with the American system. KW: Oh yes. Of course. Of course. And one shouldn’t, they’re paying the bills — CB: Exactly. KW: One shouldn’t rile at having to do it their way. I used to say that when, when anyone comes into the Royal Air Force the first job any officer coming into the Royal Air Force their first job ought to be to go to SHAFE to see how the Americans do it. They’d ever complain about anything ever again. But that’s pretty naïve because it’s the Americans who are paying the bill so we’ve got to do it their way. CB: So, effectively you were the sounding board were you on what was going on for the RAF? KW: No. No. It was more than a sounding, less of a sounding board. It was [pause] it was giving respectability to an international organisation that actually didn’t have any respectability. I worked for Al Hague. Hell of a nice chap, Al Hague and I, I’d vote for him for president but I wouldn’t buy a second-hand car from him. They are tricky dickies these Americans. CB: And what was their reaction to you in this role? KW: Well, they were used to it. They were used to — CB: Because you were an air marshal now. KW: Yes. Well, air vice marshal. CB: Vice marshal. KW: Yeah. They were used to an RAF air vice marshal going through. My predecessor Michael Beetham, he had done it. I think he was probably the first but they they’d got used to it and all the subsequent ones had done it. CB: Because he was a blunt, opinionated, forceful sort of character Beetham. Was he? KW: Yeah. Yeah. CB: Wartime experience. KW: Yeah. Yeah. He was a — CB: Originator of the TSR2. KW: Yeah. He was. Yeah. Yeah. CB: And it was a smooth transition to you in the role. KW: Yes, I don’t think there was any, any dramas. I mean you say the [pause] had TSR2 basic, he was a fairly junior, o/r chap when the — CB: Oh right. KW: The TSR2 but I mean nevertheless they were very important roles they had to play in setting up but I don’t think you could say that he was to blame for what happened to the TSR2. CB: No. No. No. I meant he was the originator. KW: No. I think that’s exaggerating too. He picked, picked the baton up and ran with it and he ran very hard. Of course, he lived in South Creake. CB: Oh, did he? Yes. Not ten miles away. So, after being at SHAFE then what happened? What did you do next? KW: I came back to Training Command and that’s, that was interesting actually. It was at a time when the Hawk was coming in to training [pause] and Training Command embraced the factory side of, of what was Maintenance Command or had been Maintenance Command. So, we had a factory at Sealand up in Cheshire and we had to deal with civil servants and unions and things that was new to my experience. CB: What were the key factors really in running Training Command then? KW: Well, it’s a matter [pause] any training organisation has got to make sure the output is, is keeping in step with the requirement and I think they did alright. There never were, there was, there was trouble because [pause] shouldn’t really bring politics into it but you probably don’t remember but in, this was in 1978 it was towards the end of the Callaghan government and money was very very tight. People were queuing up to leave the Service and we, we had, I mean it’s bizarre really. We had waiting lists for people to rise to the top of the of the queue to leave the Service. So we had a lot of instructors, flying instructors who were themselves longing to leave the Service. And what a way to encourage youngsters to come in. You come in this dynamic force which everyone else is desperate to leave and we’re in danger of being in that spot at the moment for different reasons. So that was, that was a depressing time. And then of course Margaret Thatcher was elected and she, she would have lost her seat, well the Conservatives would, would have certainly lost the next election if it hadn’t been for the Falklands. CB: Meanwhile you’d changed Commands, hadn’t you? KW: Yes. I, I’d gone. I’d gone from Brampton in Huntingdon to Strike Command. And in winning the battle over the over the Falklands Margaret Thatcher was extraordinarily generous to us. That generosity lasted, I think, oh all of about two weeks but — CB: So, how was she, how did this generosity extend itself? KW: Well, you can have what you want. Tell me what you want. You’ve lost a Nimrod. Not a Nimrod, a [pause] Hercules. You’ve lost a Hercules. You must replace it. Well, we didn’t want to replace it. There were more, by then there were more important things to spend money on but anyways she was kind to us initially. And then we had John Knott and Michael Heseltine. Well, if Michael Heseltine had, well on the face of it he was a very powerful man in cabinet so if he was, if he had been as interested in defence as he was in Michael Heseltine he would have been a magnificent Minister of Defence but he wasn’t and he didn’t. He was only interested in Michael Heseltine and he is still only interested in Michael Heseltine. CB: Yeah. Could we just take a step back? You joined as C-in-C Strike Command. Here is a link historically with the wartime activities of the RAF. To what extent would you say there was a consideration, understanding, admiration of what had happened in Bomber Command that might have been then transferred to later times? With V bombers for instance? KW: Virtually none I would think. I was, I admired [pause] the Vulcan force was just about to be disbanded. It was equipped with bombsights, radar, that were suitable for the 1950s. It had not done any inflight refuelling training in the memory of, of any of the pilots and yet they, they organised, Michael Beetham at the helm organised this bombing expedition against Stanley which I was lost in admiration for at the organisation, the discipline, the [pause] well the way, the way it was organised. The whole operation was a magnificent example of airmanship at its best. I was very sceptical. I wasn’t, I didn’t think it was a sensible thing to do but it clearly was and it was done extremely well although I was C-in-C at the time the aircraft had been allocated to 18 Group and were being controlled by AOC 18 Group and C-in-C Fleet. So, I actually had nothing to do with launching the [pause] all I had to do was make sure they got what they needed to do what they said they wanted to do and that was the easy bit from my point of view. But to, to launch that number of aircraft. To, to get one aircraft load on to Stanley was really, actually even now it hasn’t been understood. I, I remember meeting, shortly afterwards meeting a French general whose name I can’t now remember who was a bit of a pain in the arse to us or had been in the old days. He used to argue a lot but he was a real operator. He knew what he was talking about and he said to me ‘Tell me —’ he said, ‘How far is it from Ascension to the Falklands?’ So I said, ‘Well, it was about four thousand miles.’ He said, ‘Four thousand miles there and four thousand miles back.’ He said, ‘It is miraculous.’ At the same time some of our armchair critics were sitting being interviewed and saying, ‘Oh, yes, well of course that’s what the Vulcan was procured for.’ And clearly had got no understanding of what they were talking about but this from a Frenchman that did. Forget. General Forget. A great chap. So, I didn’t really have any operational control over those chaps. And I did have a slight contretemps with both Michael Beetham and the chaps who, who were flying it that I thought they should be going, bombing from lower than they were going to bomb from but I think I was wrong in that they’d if you want to penetrate you have to have some downward movement. I don’t know. I’m — CB: Certainly a tricky task. KW: Yes. CB: Then one of them broke his refuelling boom off Brazil. KW: Yeah. That was inevitable really. Yes. CB: Something would happen. KW: Yes. CB: Yes. KW: But they’d set up Brazil to be used as an alternative and they’d done that very nicely. Particularly when at the time Brazilians were really on the Argentinian side. But I knew that if, if we lost a Vulcan it would be disaster. But they went through a very dangerous exercise and they did it very well. CB: Then the aftermath of the Falklands was what? There needed to be better provision for air defence did there? KW: No. I don’t think that was — CB: In the Falklands. KW: Oh yes. In the Falklands certainly. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was obvious we needed to know what aircraft were going in and out and that did involve some expense of putting radars in pretty inaccessible places. And I certainly was determined that we shouldn’t have fighters wasting their time if they hadn’t got the ground support that they needed. CB: But of course, as a fighter man you had the full understanding of defending the island. KW: Yeah, but I — CB: So, what did you do about airfields? KW: Ah, well this will tell you the way that Whitehall works or it doesn’t work. They sent a man out to Stanley because they, they were saying that Stanley can be extended, there was no need for a new airfield and they sent a man out to Stanley who not only had never flown but he was an Army general, to tell us whether we needed an airfield. It is indescribable. Fortunately, he came back and obviously they’d got at him down in the Falklands and explained to him why in words of one syllable that there was no possibility of extending Port Stanley Airfield to take the modern aircraft and they’d have to bite the bullet. It would be cheaper to bite the bullet and build a new airfield and this is what they did of course [pause] And little has been made of the reinforcements that we sent down with the Harriers to the Falklands. Once again, extremely dangerous exercise that the chaps had never tried before, never, never practised before, were never capable of practising before but which went actually very smoothly. CB: This is operating from carriers. KW: It’s getting down to the carriers in the first place and then operating from the carriers throughout the war. CB: So how did that work? Getting the Harriers there. KW: Well, they, they refuelled. They refuelled and landed at sea. I mean, I forget actually the detail precisely of where they landed but between, somewhere between the Falklands and Ascension Island. CB: And this is all with RAF pilots. KW: Yes. Yes. CB: What would you think was the most memorable event in your time as C-in-C Strike Command? [pause] KW: I don’t know [pause] Well, I think actually the final success in the Falklands. Of course, we had tremendous problems with getting the infra-red equipment to be used on the ground by the Army. CB: Is it target illumination? KW: Yes. Yes. Yes. And to make sure that it got done in a useable state. That the Army were au fait with how to use it and B that it worked when it did. And right at the very end I do remember a bomb [pause] We were asking for reports of where the, where the, what the bombs were achieving and I remember one message that came back, ‘It’s gone straight down the barrel of the gun.’ There was one gun that was holding us up. I think it was probably an exaggeration but nevertheless it got the message across that A the equipment was working and B they had better watch out. Yes. I think the relief from knowing that so much depended on it. CB: So, then your final posting was just after that. So, what was the final posting? KW: No. That was, that was the last one. CB: It was after. KW: Yeah. CB: Okay. So, then you took over as CAS. Chief of the Air Staff. KW: Yeah. Yeah. CB: So that ran from when? KW: 1982 to ’85 and that covered the post-war period. So, I don’t think that’s any help to you and your Bomber Command. CB: Just a final question on that. What, what did it feel like to be effectively in charge of the whole of the RAF having started at the lowest point? KW: I don’t think it even remotely troubled my mind. I mean, it was — CB: Because you had the political — KW: Yeah. CB: Liaison much more as you went further up the line, didn’t you? KW: Absolutely right. And I, I’ve not met many politicians who I would allow across my front door. One or two marvellous chaps and one or two quite likely, unlikely chaps. I remember when I was commandant at Bracknell we had the Secretary of State for Defence was that man from Barnsley. CB: Yes. Fred Mulley. KW: No. No. No, not Fred Murray. CB: Mulley. KW: Not Fred Mulley. CB: No. KW: No. No. Other: I should know. I’m from Barnsley. KW: Are you? Other: Yes. KW: That’s terrible. You should. You should jolly well know that. Other: I know. KW: Anyway — Other: It should trip off the tongue but I can’t remember it. KW: It would trip off my tongue. Anyway, it’ll come when you’ve gone. But he came, we used to have the chiefs of all, all three Services and the Secretary of State for all three Services come down and talk to the Staff College and he was due to come down on one occasion. He, they normally had lunch with us and either spoke before lunch or spoke after lunch. He was due to speak after lunch and he refused to come to lunch and when we met him he was very bristly. He was clearly very, he thought he was going to be got at. You have questions from all the students. Thought he was going to be got at. But the, I forget what the first question was but it was absolutely marvellous and it set him off on a train and he was the best Secretary of State for Defence I had, I ever served because he was interested in defence. He, he understood that his job was to improve defence. Not to pare defence and get the money. What was his name? CB: I got the wrong, I had the wrong political party just then. Yes. KW: He was very very Labour. Isn’t that terrible? Other: I’ll remember when I get home. KW: Yes. But he was absolutely lovely. And we had one or two who were absolutely dreadful. And of course, the Sandys Acts, Sandys standing up at his, in Hansard now, ‘There’s no future —’ This is 1957, ‘No future in manned aircraft. Defence will be in the hands of the missiles.’ In 1957. And never heard of him being sacked. No. He was a marvellous chap. He was Winston’s Churchill’s son in law. Oh, must be a good chap. What is that man’s name? CB: Let me divert you then while you’re considering that. KW: Yeah. CB: Because the final point really is here you are working for the chief of, with the Chief of the Defence Staff so you’ve got the Navy, the Army and the Air Force all tying in together. How does that work? KW: Well, under, under the scheme that the last war was run and under the scheme that the Falkland war was run it worked fairly well. But as soon as you appointed a primus inter pares you got people who want to show they’re in charge and, ‘It’s my ideas.’ And it doesn’t work. It’s, I said at the time that it was a [pause] I had a phrase for it [pause] To the effect that it was, it made no sense. Logically it was nonsensible because you, as a Naval officer know, are not and cannot ever be the Principal Naval Advisor to the to the Queen or to the government if you’re not CDS. But if you are CDS the only advice you can give is Naval advice. So, you must be able to discuss it. I was quite prepared to fight my corner for the Air Force and certainly sometimes of course you do get party lines crossed. But no, it, this was Michael Heseltine determination that we, we should have an enhanced central staff and its nonsense and it means of course now CAS lives down in High Wycombe. Don’t know where the hell the Naval chap lives. You’re not a team but it was, I don’t know why it was done frankly because Michael Heseltine refused to allow us to be even involved in the discussions. CB: Of? Of major strategy. KW: No. No. Of higher direction of — CB: Right. KW: Of defence. Forbad PUS of the day from discussing it with us. Other: Roy Mason. KW: Roy Mason. He is the man. You are absolutely right. Lovely man. Other: Yeah. KW: Lovely man. I’d have him on my side fighting but he, he was so nervous but once his dander was up his dander was up and he was jolly good news. CB: So, you retired from the RAF in 1985 you said, and you were then promoted. KW: Well, that’s — CB: Marshal of the Royal Air Force. KW: Yeah. That’s — CB: You were the last to receive that rank, were you? KW: No. No. CB: Craig, was it? KW: No. I need, I need you to tell me his name. CB: There was — KW: Harding. CB: Harding. Yeah. Just one other. KW: One other. Yes. CB: And when you came to retirement what did you think that you might do next? KW: Well, I, I got a job with one of the companies which fell apart before I got the, got to the job. I was going to take over on Marconis. Do you remember Marconi turned belly up? Who was after [pause] Weinstock? I forget. Anyway, and I had got nothing to add to anything so I played golf. CB: Very good. What’s your handicap now? KW: I’ve, I’ve given up. CB: What was it before you gave up? KW: Eleven. CB: So, you’ve done quite well. KW: No. No. No. No. CB: What was the highest handicap you had? KW: That was the highest I’d ever had. CB: Oh, it was. But you enjoyed it. That was the key. KW: Yes, and it was, we have the loveliest course at Brancaster and I was playing with Michael Beetham. I was staying with Michael Beetham actually on one occasion and coming down the 18th fairway the Wetherby family from Newmarket were coming in and they had seven dogs. It was absolutely lovely. They were running all over the place. I think they had five whippets and two other dogs and I thought I’ve never been on a golf course that allowed dogs to roam where they like and I think it’s delightful so this is where I want to play golf. So, when I got back we were actually up here looking for a house to move in to and I said to Pat, ‘I’ve solved where we’re going to live. It’s here.’ And that’s what we did and we’ve been here ever since. CB: How long was that? KW: Well, 1984 we were, so it’s thirty-three years. CB: In anticipation of retirement. KW: Yes. Yes. CB: Very good. KW: I I had no feelings that I had a battle to win. CB: No. KW: I would have liked to have earned more money but then that’s life. CB: What would you say was in your whole career with the Royal Air Force what was your most memorable event? KW: Event? CB: Or what is your most cherished memory? Put it a different way. KW: Well, I think actually being a squadron commander of a front line squadron was absolutely ideal and there at Leuchars we had a squadron headquarters in the old air traffic building which had of course the balcony and overlooking the airfield. And just over there was the Royal and Ancient Golf Course so we, we had everything that we needed apart from the good weather. The weather wasn’t all that good. CB: Well, Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Sir Keith Williamson thank you very much. KW: Thank you, and, I shall — CB: For a most interesting conversation. KW: I shall sue you if you use it for any purpose, nefarious purpose and I shall sue you — [laughter] Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Keith Alec Williamson Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Chris Brockbank Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-01-15 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context AWilliamsonKA180115 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 01:38:50 audio recording Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Royal Australian Air Force Description An account of the resource Sir Keith Alec Williamson was born in in Leytonstone, Essex. Early education was at Bancroft’s School until bombs fell across the school. He was then sent to a grammar school in Market Harborough where he joined the Air Training Corps. On leaving school he became an aircraft apprentice at RAF Halton before gaining a scholarship to RAF Cranwell as a cadet. He was then posted to Germany to join a Vampire squadron. As the Korean war had broken out, he volunteered to fight and joined 77 Squadron of the Royal Australian Air Force flying Meteors. On returning to Great Britain, he was posted as aide-de-camp to the Commander-in-Chief (Home Command). After three years he returned to Germany as flight commander for 20 Squadron, flying Hunters. On promotion to squadron leader he became a qualified flying instructor at the Central Flying School and went on to become an examiner. Then followed staff college before being posted to the Air Ministry. His next posting was to command 23 Squadron at RAF Leuchars which operated Lightnings. He describes life back in Germany as station commander at RAF Gütersloh. Further senior postings were to Whitehall, staff college and as assistant chief of staff at Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE). After commanding Support Command and then Strike Command his final posting was as Chief of Air Staff before retiring in 1985 as Marshall of the Royal Air Force. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Nick Cornwell-Smith Julie Williams Maureen Clarke Carolyn Emery Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Great Britain England--London Germany Germany--Gütersloh Korea Belgium Belgium--Mons England--Buckinghamshire England--Lincolnshire England--Nottinghamshire Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1950 1957 1958 1982 20 Squadron 23 Squadron 77 Squadron bombing Meteor RAF Cranwell RAF Halton RAF Leuchars RAF Syerston training https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/760/10757/ACulkinJ170913.2.mp3 d6e8c804c247fbcca49d095ec677db49 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/760/10757/PCulkinJ1702.2.jpg 76d9891f9516091d87227b71d1507485 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Culkin, Jean J Culkin Description An account of the resource 10 items. An oral history interview with Jean Culkin, née Dodds (b.1924), photographs and documents. The collection also contains an album of photographs and newspaper cuttings. Jean Culkin grew up in Sunderland and worked in a reserved occupation. Her husband, John George Mackel Culkin, served as ground crew. The collection has been loaned to the IBCC Digital Archive for digitisation by Jean Culkin and catalogued by IBCC Digital Archive staff. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-13 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Culkin, J Transcribed audio recording A resource consisting primarily of recorded human voice. Transcription Text transcribed from audio recording or document CH: This interview is being conducted for the international Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. The interviewer is Cathie Hewitt. The interviewee is Jean Culkin. Also present is Sue Kendall, Jean Culkin's daughter. The interview is taking place at [buzz] in Washingborough. Ok. Thank you for agreeing to be, agree to be interviewed, Jean. I just need to say the date is the 13th of September 2017. If you could start by telling me something about you early life, and your family and where you were brought up, please. JC: I was born in Sunderland. I can't remember the name of the street. I think it was Rosewood Street and it was the West End of Sunderland. I had a sister, my mum and dad. My dad worked for Ringtons and they sent him when I was five years old from Sunderland to Newcastle. I went to school at Newcastle. I left school when I was fourteen. I left school on the Friday and on the Monday I was working. I had to go down to the Bureau and they used to say, ‘What would you like to do, Jean?’ ‘I’d like to work in an office.’ And sure enough that's how I started. Tea girl in an office when I was fourteen. And of course, the war was just around the corner. I didn't want to join the Services. I was a home girl really and that was it. But I left school on the Friday and I started work the following Tuesday in an office as a tea girl. Then you go from that, sort of doing invoices and teaching me to type. I got fed up with that job. I was there for a year. Applied for another job and went on from there. I went to typing school. That was about eight months. I wanted to do shorthand but I couldn't remember all the figures. The alphabet is entirely different and that was it. That’s how I finished. In an office as a typist. There was five or six of us typists, two manageresses and the boss and it was a sweetie factory. And you couldn't be called up because sweeties, sugar that came under the rationing so some of the girls wanted to join the Services and the boss man said, ‘If you want to go you'll never come back.’ Because once you were in this job its government. Yeah. Food. And that was it. I was there. I left when I was twenty one. Yeah. That’s all. CH: When you were twenty one, what year was that? JC: I was born in ’24. ’45. No. Was it thirty, ’45? CH: So, you were working in the sweet factory during the war. JC: The war was just around the corner. Yes. CH: The war hadn't actually started. JC: No. But it was on its way, you know. That’s why some of the girls wanted to join the ATS, the WAAF — SK: But when the war started you used to sit with a bucket of sand didn’t you? In the dark. JC: Sorry? SK: When the war started in Newcastle and they were dropping bombs you had to sit in the factory with a bucket of sand. JC: Yes. SK: On your own through the night. JC: Yes. That’s right. SK: In case a bomb dropped. JC: In case [laughs] What I would have done, I couldn’t even work a stirrup pump properly. SK: No. JC: You know. The pump. But I’m still here so I must have got through it. CH: So, when the war started — JC: Yes. CH: Where were you working? JC: This was at the sweetie factory. Yes. Yes. CH: And you stayed working there throughout the war, did you? JC: Yes. Yes. CH: Could you tell me a little bit about working there? What you did. JC: It was, well the orders used to come from upstairs where the factory was because they had a van that went out to all the sweetie shops and they used to take orders, go back up here and give it to all the guys that made the toffee and the sweets. And halfway through the week one of the ladies would come down and say, ‘Right, this order is for this shop.’ This shop. This shop. Now, the boss used to say, ‘Right. You do that. You do that, and you.’ So we had sort of, you know your own section to do. Yeah. Now — CH: Did you work shifts? JC: No. No. It was nine ‘til five. 1 o'clock on a Saturday. Yeah. No half days. No. No. It was quite, quite interesting. CH: So, during the war did you see much of bombing? JC: Well, yes because in the garden we had an Anderson air raid shelter and we’d just probably just go to bed about nine, half past nine, 10 o'clock, just get nice and comfortable. Mom and dad were in the front bedroom, my sister and I were in the bedroom and the siren would go and my dad would say, ‘Right. Up.’ Just leave your nighties and dressing gown on and run down the stairs, the back stairs into the Anderson shelter. But my mum would say, ‘Just a minute. I've got to get the case.’ That big, with the policies. Full of policies for the house. Yeah. Anyway, there we were freezing cold. ‘Right. Go on. Get in the shelter.’ And we’d [coughs] excuse me we’d sit in there until the all-clear went. And eventually my dad thought, ‘Right, we'll have to make this comfortable.’ So then he got some cushions from somewhere and we had cushions to sit on instead of the wooden seat and you could sort of lie down. The all-clear would go maybe three, four, 5 o'clock and you’d think, ‘Oh God. Right. Can we go up now?’ ‘Yeah.’ My dad wouldn’t let us leave unless that siren said mmmmm. Go upstairs and my mum said, ‘Right. It's nearly time to go to work.’ Pointless going to bed. It’s 7 o'clock in the morning. Go in the bath and get washed, changed, clean your teeth. Toast. Cup of tea. Off. My sister to the fruit shop at the top of the street where she worked and meto Cowper and Dodsworth where I worked. The sweetie factory. CH: Cowper and — JC: Cowper and Dodsworth. CH: Dodsworth. JC: Yes. Yes. We never saw Mr Cowper. He lived in Jesmond and he was very rich. We went up there one Wednesday afternoon. Miss Tomlinson, the boss said we’d been invited to Mr Cowper’s house. Jesmond. And we went and, oh it was beautiful. Beautiful. And they had a swing in the garden. The girls would say, ‘Can we sit on here?’ ‘Can we sit there?’ And we had glasses of lemonade and we were there for about two hours. And then Miss Tomlinson, our boss said, ‘Right, girls. We’d better go now.’ Yes. So we all got on the bus and came back to Cowper and Dodsworth and finished off what we were doing. That was Mr. Cowper. Very posh, you know in those days. SK: Yeah. Yeah. JC: Yeah. We never saw him at work but it was Mr Dodsworth in the office. SK: Probably just counting the money. JC: And Miss, there was a door there, Miss Tomlinson, our boss lady. She was here. And then the typists here. Shorthand typist there and there was Stella McQueen. She was the youngest. She was fifteen. SK: I wonder where she is now. JC: She came in one day, she’d only been there about four months and she came in one day and she said, ‘You know my brother. He’s eighteen. He's just been called up for the Air Force and he’s been posted to the Middle East.’ ‘My God.’ I said, ‘What's his name?’ ‘Steve McQueen.’ You can't forget Steve McQueen. And by this time I was writing to your dad. I got a letter and he said, ‘You wouldn't believe it Jean but I've got an airman here called Steve McQueen and he says he has a sister that works with Jean Dodds. In the Middle East. SK: Oh, wow. JC: Because Jack’s squadron was with Monty. You know, they were behind. Monty was on, all the Halifaxes were here. Now, how's that for a coincidence, eh? SK: Yeah. JC: Yeah. Yeah. That was it. SK: Didn’t he meet somebody who knew Auntie Anne who lived in Schimel Street? Dad. JC: What? In the RAF? SK: When he was away he met somebody. JC: I don’t know. SK: And he said his sister lived in Schimel Street and that he had — JC: Is that how they got — SK: Somebody Dad was with in the RAF who, who knew. Knew Schimel Street. At the top of the other end, I think. JC: I can't remember that, sweetheart. No. CH: Can we go back to when you were working in the factory? JC: Cowper and Dodsworth. Yes. CH: Can you tell us a little bit more about that? JC: The delivery man, yes. It was horse and cart. Well, couldn't get petrol. Yes. And his name, the driver, Ambrose and Ambrose used to come to the office every morning at half past seven because there was always somebody around and say, ‘Right. I'll be back in an hour. If I can have my order sheet. As soon as I get the order sheet I’ll get the sweeties from over there in jars. So I can put it on my van.’ With the horse. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was about seventy, Ambrose. Yeah. But he was lovely. I’ll always remember him. Nice old man. Yeah. Load the back of the cart with all the jars of sweeties and paradise fruits and peppermint, you know, bon bons. Yes. Yeah. What else can I tell you? It was nine to five. An hour for lunch. SK: How much did you earn? JC: Seven and six. What’s that today? I mean, but in those days you know, I mean, I think my dad was on about two pound ten shillings a week. The rent at Rothbury Terrace, seventeen and six a week. I don’t know. Upstairs flat you see. CH: What did your father do? JC: He worked for Ringtons Tea. He was, there again a van. They had the van. If you get the tea packet out I’ll show the lady, and the horse. And he used to start, he had to be, 7 o’clock he used to start work. He used to get to the factory, go around the back and the young boy would give him the horse and my dad would come down with the horse and the van there and he’d have to put the horse in to the van and kit it all out and what not. Yeah. And then the van boy who was with my dad would say, ‘Right, we're off, Mr Dodds, are we?’ Sure enough, yeah. He’d have his order for where he had to go. Gateshead. You know. All around. Heaton. Yeah. And he’d be out. I often wonder, he used to get terrible chilblains because he used to have to knock on doors. He used to wear mitts. My mum made him mitts but they didn’t get rid of the chilblains. Yeah. And he used to have to be out on the street at 8 o'clock and he’d get back about 7 o'clock at night. As you did in those days, you know. It wasn't a nine to five job. And I used to think, my God in all the rain because there was no front on the front of the van in those days. It was just the horse and the boy by him, you know. Helping him. Yeah. He must have got soaked. That's why he had blooming chilblains. Yeah. CH: How old were you when you met Jack? JC: Sixteen. CH: Could you tell us a little bit about meeting him? JC: Yes. I can tell you an awful lot. SK: You’ll hear his life story. JC: I lived in [laughs] I lived in Newcastle. Right. And I had a cousin, my cousins all lived in Sunderland and Dorothy, she was three years older than me, she wrote to me. No telephones in those days. She wrote to me and said, “Why don't you come through this weekend? I've got some friends coming.” We used to play Newmarket. Cards. I said yeah. I wrote back and said, “Alright. I’ll come.” So, I packed my little case. That was on the Saturday, 2 o’clock and went to Dorothy and she said, ‘Wait, I've got some friends coming tonight. There's Danny Culkin and he's got a nephew. He’s in the Air Force.’ I said, ‘Oh, OK.’ ‘He doesn't know anyone here. So, you know, play Newmarket cards. Snap. Anything.’ And sure enough Uncle Danny came with another friend and Jack. And Jack. Oh my God. That was it. It went [pat pat]. But he was so shy. He really was so shy. Really. There's some photographs in there you can see. He, he had three sisters. You’d think he’d be used to women but he was with boys you see. He joined the RAF at fifteen. It was all boys, and he was just very shy. I met him twice. He didn't know me. Not really. He knew my name playing cards and what not. And then eventually you see, the war was coming on and Dorothy wrote and she said, ‘Do you know what, Jean? I think, why don’t you come through this weekend? I don't know how long Jackie will be here.’ Because his uncle said he might be going soon. ‘Where are they going?’ ‘I don't know.’ So I did. I went for that weekend and funnily enough Dorothy said to me, ‘I'm washing my hair tonight, Jack so I can't take you to the bus stop. I'll tell you what. Our Jean will take you.’ Oh God. Pouring with rain outside. Head square, riding mac on and we walked. It was only a ten minute walk to the bus station because he had to go to Durham. You see his squadron was at Durham. He’d finished his training by the. And then the bus came for Durham. He said, ‘Oh, I have to go.’ Then he gave me a kiss. And he sat on the back seat on the bus and he just waved like that. And that was it for the next three years. SK: Five years [laughs] JC: Five [laughs] Three and a half years I think because then Dorothy had written to me and said, ‘Hey, how’s about, they’re always on —’ because her fiancé who was taken prisoner of war, Ralph in Germany. He'd only been in the Army, he was called up, he’d only been I think eighteen months and he was a prisoner of war. So Dorothy said, ‘Tell you what, Jean. Why don't you write to Jackie Culkin because I'm writing. I'll send you his address.’ So, I thought, ‘Yeah. Ok.’ So I started writing. And that was it. For the next three and a half years. At the start he didn’t know me. I knew him. He didn’t know me. And that was it. And we’d been writing how many? Two years. Two years, because he was away what, three, three years, wasn't he? So, two years we'd been writing and then he said, “Why don't we get engaged? By proxy.” Yeah. Alright then. So, we got engaged by proxy. CH: How old were you both then? JC: Twenty. And Jack was twenty one. Yeah. Twenty one and a half. There was eighteen months between us. And we had the proxy engagement party at my cousin Dorothy's house and Jack’s mum, a wonderful cook, she made cakes. My mum made scones. Rationing, you know. And that was it. I didn't have a ring so Jack’s, Nanna Culkin said, ‘Look, Jean, here, take mine off.’ Gave it to dad and he put it on my finger. He said, ‘Right. You’re now engaged to my son.’ Lovely. But I hadn’t seen him. I mean, it was just writing. You see, I think when you write letters you open your heart out, don't you? And that was it. Then of course how long did I have to wait? It was another eighteen months before he came home because don't forget he was in the Middle East and the war was not, and eventually Shirley the youngest sister wrote a letter and said, ‘Our Jack’s coming home so you'll have to get some holiday.” Which I did. God. I thought I was going to have a heart attack. It must have been worse for him because Nanna Culkin, she was a wonderful cook and I think she spoiled him when he first came, you know. After the war. After the desert he wouldn't eat. And I could never ever buy a tin of corned beef. He used to say, ‘Jean, never ever buy corned beef. Bully beef.’ That's what they lived on. He wouldn't have corned beef in the house [laughs] He wouldn’t. Yeah. So that was it more or less. I had to go through to Sunderland of course and he got there on the Saturday afternoon. I thought he would open the front door. Don't forget I hadn't seen him all this time. Just writing. But he hadn’t and it was his sister that opened the door. ‘Oh, come on in Jean’ I had my little attache case for my whats, my nightdress, no pyjamas I think in those days, dressing gown blah blah and his mam came through. She said, ‘He's not well.’ I said, ‘What?’ ‘He's been sick all night. He’s killed the goldfish.’ ‘Pardon?’ The goldfish was in a bowl in the main bedroom and he was sick. There was nowhere to be sick. So when he came he said, ‘I've killed Goldie.’ SK: I think it was nerves because it was such a long time. JC: It was because, you know what nanna was like for cooking and I think she gave him too much food and he hadn't been used to food. Anyhow, I had to sleep with the girls in that room and Jack was in the main bedroom and nanna and grandad were in the spare room and of course nanna, you know what she was like. Up in the morning. ‘Our Jack, come on get up. Jean’s already up.’ I got up, went to the bathroom, changed, you know. Cleaned my teeth and whatever. Did my hair. SK: And you still hadn’t seen him. JC: No. I still hadn’t seen him. I was in the kitchen where the cooker was there. Nanna was doing the breakfast and he came down clunk clunk clunk. Oh my God. He just came over and just said, ‘Oh, how are you?’ And just kissed me on the cheek. That was, so Nanna said, ‘What do you want for breakfast, son?’ He said, ‘Nothing. Just toast.’ And he was looking at me and you see it was just writing but he used to say when you write to someone you pour your heart out, don’t you? And that was it. We had toast and a cup of tea and mum said, ‘Right. Go for a walk. Dinner,’ this was Sunday, ‘Dinner is on the table at 1 o'clock.’ And when she said 1 o'clock, she meant it. So, she said, ‘Go on. Take take your girlfriend out.’ So we had Thompson’s Park and he was actually holding my hand. Yeah. And then he said, ‘Can I kiss you?’ I said, ‘If you wish.’ And that was it, and he looked at his watch and he said, ‘Five to one. We’d better get home.’ Because it was only a ten minute walk and of course the dinner was on the table and all the family were there, you know. His sisters and two brothers. That was it. And then I was going to help Aunt Anne wash up. You know, do the washing up and mam said, ‘No. Go on our Jack. Get out. Get yourself down to Seaburn by the seaside. Fresh air.’ And we spent the afternoon at Seaburn. Walking in Seaburn. SK: But then unfortunately the two families didn’t get on, did they? JC: Not really. At the time, don’t forget we were engaged, weren’t we and my dad said, ‘Right, we’ll make —’ There was still rationing going on, ‘We can have a little wedding, you know. It’ll be, we can't afford a lot. At Newcastle, St Gabriel’s?’ ‘Yeah. That’s right.’ Jack said, ‘Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. I don’t mind.’ Through to Sunderland and mum said, ‘No. No. You’ve got to get married in the church at the end of road.’ And I said, ‘Well, my dad wants, I've lived in Newcastle and all my friends are there.’ No. Arguments started. Your dad had, he'd gone back to wherever and that was it. He said, ‘I can't stand this, Jean.’ He used to come home every other weekend because you only got so many railway warrants a year, didn’t you. ‘I can’t stand this.’ So, he came one weekend. He said, ‘I’ll be at Sunderland this weekend. Ok?’ So, I thought, ‘Right. Yes, ok. I’m going through. See what’s going to happen and I got there and there’s Jack’s sister and mam and his other sister sitting by the window. You know, on the settee. And he said, he looked awful. I said, ‘What's wrong?’ He said, ‘I've had a busy week at work.’ He said, ‘But can I speak to you privately? Is it alright mum? I’m just going to take Jean upstairs. I’ve got something to say.’ And I thought, ‘That’s it. It’s off.’ So, we went upstairs, sat on the bed and he closed the door and then he said, ‘Don’t say anything.’ I said, ‘What?’ He said, ‘Shush.’ And then he opened the door. He thought somebody might have gone upstairs listening. So, he said, ‘Don’t get upset. I said downstairs the wedding is off for the time being. It isn't. It’s on. We’re getting married August the 21st, Weston Super Mare Town Hall. I’ve got a special licence. I’ve booked a room in a farmhouse just on the outskirts of RAF Locking.’ Which was the Air Force then. ‘So that’s it. I’ll send you your ticket.’ How the heck he did that from Weston Super Mare I don’t know but he did. So, I got the, I got the train. I packed my case and I had it for two weeks holiday and my mom said, ‘Right. Send us a card when you get there to make sure you’re alright.’ So, I said, ‘Yes. Alright.’ Got the bus from Simonside [unclear] to Newcastle Central. I think it was the 10 o’clock train to Bristol Temple Meads because Jack said he’d meet me there at 4 o’clock when the train got in. And I’d got my case and this and that with me and I thought, ‘My God, what if he isn’t there? I’ve got ten shillings in my purse and he’s not there.’ I thought, Oh God. And it was hours, you know. The 10 o’clock train got in to Temple Meads at four and sure enough he was there. Oh, thank God. So, I said, ‘What now?’ He said, ‘Right. We’ve got to get the bus to Weston Super Mare.’ Now to RAF Locking it’s the village. t’s actually, it’s a farmhouse and she rents out rooms so we’ve got that for the next week. And then we’re off to Bournemouth for a week. Ok?’ ‘Alright then.’ So, I take my little case in and Jack said, ‘Right. We’re getting married on the Wednesday so I’ll see you —’ This was Saturday. Sunday. He said, ‘I’ll see you on Monday morning. I want to bring my civvy stuff here because I’ve got to lock up and clear from the station.’ So, I said, so I was all by myself in this strange place but the landlady was very nice. She took me around where the farm was, you know. It was growing apples and stuff and whatnot. I wasn’t in the least interested but you’ve got to say yes. Yeah. So I was in B&B for two days and then your father came with his civvies and what not. He wouldn’t get married in uniform. I said, ‘Oh, please.’ ‘No. No. No. I wear a uniform all day.’ Hmmn hmmn. And he wouldn’t. He just had his best suit on, you know. RAF tie. He left me there, and then he came on the Wednesday morning. We were married at 3.15. He came and he put his case in and his uniform ready to go back to work and what not and on the morning of the wedding I didn’t see, I saw him that night and he said, ‘Right. I’ll see you tomorrow.’ And he came, we were married at quarter past three and he came at 12 o’clock. The lady made him a cup of tea and whatnot. You know, the landlady and whatnot and then we got the bus into Weston Super Mare to the Town Hall. We had to be there at 3.15 and the best man was a corporal. He was getting married on the following Wednesday. So we went, and he had his fiancé. She wanted to meet me. So we go in front of the registrar and he said, ‘Right. Yes. Alright. Sergeant Culkin?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘And you are Jean Dodds.’ ‘Yes.’ ‘And you are —’ What was his name? Oh God. I can’t remember his name now. I can’t remember the best man’s name but he was, he was a corporal. Yes. That’s right. And the registrar and, oh Florence, his fiancé was there as well. She was one of the witnesses, and the registrar said, ‘Right. Yes.’ And he said to Florence, ‘How old are you, Florence?’ She said, ‘I’m eighteen.’ He said, ‘You can not be a witness. You’re eighteen. You’ve got to be twenty one.’ You did in those days. So the registrar said to one of the clerks, ‘You’re going to have to get somebody.’ So we walked down the street and this man, ‘Can you register the wedding with us?’ And he came in. Who he was I don’t know. Yes. And that was it. We got married and the registrar said, ‘It is exactly the same as a church wedding. We’ve got no hymns, we’ve got no bells and we’ve got no confetti but it is legal. Oh, and by the way the Bishop of Bath and Wells is in the next office. Would you like him to officiate?’ I said, ‘Oh yes.’ And Jack said, ‘No. Would you get on with it please.’ And he wouldn’t have the Bishop of Bath and Wells. Next door. I thought well this is it, you know. I thought it was just the same as the church wedding but there’s no hymns, no bells, no nothing. But it is legal. Yeah. CH: So nobody knew you were getting married. JC: No. So we got outside and John, the best man, John Turner, he said, ‘Right. I've got to go. I've got to see where Florence is. She's around here somewhere.’ So off they went. He said, ‘I’d better take a photograph.’ We didn't have a camera. So, he took the photograph. Otherwise, we wouldn't have that photograph. So off they went and your dad said, ‘I'm starving.’ And I said, ‘I'm absolutely parched.’ He said, ‘First of all there’s a Post Office over there. Let’s go over, get a card each. One to your mum and dad and one to my mum and dad.’ Which we did. “Dear mum and dad, arrived safely. Yes, Jack met me at the station. Oh, by the way we were married at 3.15 this afternoon. See you in two weeks. Love Jean and Jack.” CH: Wonderful. JC: So this, this is what he wrote to his mum and dad. A card. That was it. SK: Nanna would have loved that. JC: Eh? SK: Nanna Culkin would have loved that. JC: [unclear] Well, she’d have been, you know. So we did and I said, ‘Now what?’ He said, ‘Oh, let’s go and have something to eat.’ So we had, remember Fortes? The catering people? Before your time. Fortes. Yeah. There was a cafeteria. Straight in there. Tea for two. Steak, egg and chips. Brown bread and butter. White bread and butter. No, I don't think we had a cake afterwards. No. Don't forget things were still rationed. SK: You didn’t have any money, did you? JC: No. I had, I think I had ten shillings and your father had forty. Forty quid. A lot of money. SK: But luckily dad found some jewellery, didn’t he? JC: No. It was a cigarette box. We’d had, we finished with Locking. The village of Locking. Then we had to get to [pause] where was it? Bournemouth. That was it. We had to get to Bournemouth. So we had to get, I think we got the bus to Bournemouth because we had a room for four days, five days, I think in Bournemouth. Yeah. SK: Where did dad find the — JC: Oh, yeah. That was, we were out one morning walking and we said, ‘Right. Let’s go and have a cup of tea.’ It was all tea in those days not coffee and he, he knocked something and I said, ‘Well, that’s shiny. What the heck’s that?’ And it was a cigarette case. Picked it up, opened it, nothing inside. So, he said, ‘Hey, I know. What if I find a jeweller shop? Maybe we could sell.’ I said, ‘Can’t you take it to the police?’ ‘No. Finders keepers.’ So, we went into this little shop and they said, ‘I’ll give you —’ I think it was five pounds. So, we had five pounds. Yeah. That made us rich. I didn't have any money left by then but your dad had his fiver. SK: Didn't dad by a silk shirt or something? JC: Oh, that was, that was our last day at Bournemouth. There was a sale on at this gent’s shop. We were looking in the window and he said, ‘Oh, look at that shirt.’ It was silk. Brown. A very light brown with a little stripe in. I think it was about three pounds. Something like that. I said, ‘Oh, go on. Get it.’ So he, yeah he got, out of that money that we got for the cigarette case we went to the cinema with that and we were able to eat. Don't forget we were only B&B. Then he bought this shirt. Yes. Silk shirt. It was lovely. It was a fawny brownie. SK: So, somebody’s probably at home now saying oh that silk shirt — JC: Yeah. That shirt. So that was Bournemouth. Yeah. That was it. SK: Well done, mum. JC: Do you reckon? [recording paused] CH: OK. Jane, if you could tell me something about your husband, Jack. Please. JC: Yeah. He was born in Sunderland, 14th of May 1923. He had three sisters and two brothers. They lived in a council flat in the East End of Sunderland. His dad was a tugboat skipper. He used to bring the big ships into the River Wear, you know and he was on, I suppose shift work. He couldn’t, he didn’t, never had a nine to five job. Yeah. Dad was lovely. Yeah. As I say three sisters and two brothers. Two brothers. So six children altogether. Yes. But the flat was so small that his two brothers had to go and live with an auntie. Aunt Anne at the other end of town. It was only a two-bedroom flat you see and you can't have boys and girls sleeping together. No good. Yeah. Then he went to a local school and then he went to Sunderland Junior Tech. I think he was fifteen. Yeah. He was fifteen when he was [pause] Yeah he was fifteen years old and he told me that he was coming out of the gate at night, you know, after school and there was this man standing giving out leaflets and he gave it to all the boys. All these boys got a leaflet. So when he got home mum was, ‘Empty your pockets.’ Marbles and everything and there was this piece of paper in there and she had a look in there and said, ‘Oh, I'll let dad have a look at this.’ So when dad came in from work about 8 o'clock that night he said, ‘Oh, look they’re wanting, it’s the Royal Air Force. They’re wanting apprentices. What do you think about that, Jack?’ He said, ‘No. I want to be a draughtsman. I want to go to sea.’ He said, ‘Well, no. Look. Look. What I'll do I'll write a letter to this address and tell them blah blah blah and we may get a reply. We might not.’ Sure enough the next week there came a reply and it was a railway warrant. He'd never been out, he’d never been out of Sunderland. He was fifteen. First time on a train on his own. Down to King’s Cross to see the RTO which is what it said on this paper and the RTO took him to the other side of the station and he got a train to RAF Halton. And that's when it all started. He met other guys and what not. I think he was there for about two weeks. Did PE and just, they were just talking about the RAF and what they wanted to be, you now. He had a medical. He passed the medical. And then they said, ‘Right. You can go home now and we’ll let you know.’ So getting home he told mum and dad and they said, ‘Oh, that’s it then.' Sure enough a week later there was a train warrant for RAF Halton and that was the beginning. CH: And how old was he then? JC: I think he was sixteen. Fifteen. Sixteen. So, from the very beginning because the very first time I saw him before he went to war he had sort of silver thing on here and that was to say he was an apprentice. Part of the uniform. Because I used to think that's funny, normally you get stripes or what not but it was on the arm. Yeah. And being shy I didn't like to ask him, ‘What’s that for?’ That's about it, I think. CH: Did he tell you much about his time at RAF Halton? He was known as a Halton brat wasn't he? JC: That's right. Yes. A brat. Right. There's a lovely photograph in there if you want to look at it. Yes. All boys. All boys. Yeah. He enjoyed it. I think at the first week he was actually there I think they went into this huge hall and there were these guys sitting at a table and as you came you know along here you sat there and they’d say, ‘What would you like to do if we accept you in the Royal Air Force?’ He said, ‘I like cars. I like bicycles.’ ‘Engineering.’ And that was it. So he was put on a course for airframes and engines. That was it, you know. Did all his training there and everything. Getting up the PTI used to come into the room where all the guys were sleeping. I think it was six o'clock. ‘Right. Out of bed, shorts on, toilet, we're going for a run.’ Summer and winter 6 o'clock. And he ran, I think for about a mile. Get back. Straight into the shower. Get your work clothes on, your overalls and then have breakfast and then go to your classroom. And that was it until about 5 o'clock at night. Then probably have homework, then have dinner, change of clothes, have another shower, change of clothes, and then do your homework ready for the next day. And that was it. Yeah. So a busy time. Yeah. CH: So, did you know Jack then when he was apprentice? JC: Not really. Not really. I knew with my cousin I knew of him you see. His name and whatnot but that was about it. No. CH: Did you meet up with him when he came back on leave? JC: Yes. Of course, in those days leave was few and far between, you know. A forty-eight if you were lucky. And there was one weekend I was through at my cousin’s because she had written me to say, “Jackie Culkin is coming this weekend. You’d better come because you might not see him for a month.” So I went that weekend and the usual thing, you know playing cards, you know and whatnot. And that was the last time I saw him until three and a half years later. He didn't realise at the time that was embarkation leave. But of course, you can’t, you don’t say anything, you know. Yes. That was embarkation leave. Yeah. So that was when I started writing. I thought I’d carry on because my cousin, her fiancé had been taken prisoner so she said, ‘I’ll write to Ralph, Jean but you’ve got to, you know start writing to Jack.’ And he told me the last time he saw England, because two of the guys were quite well to do and they had a car, a two-seater racing car and so one of them said, ‘What will we do with this?’ And the corporal in charge the whole lot said, ‘Nothing we can do. It’ll just have to stay in the hangar.’ ‘But where am I going? I’m going overseas.’ ‘Sorry.’ So they just had to leave the cars.’ And of course, they weren't there three and a half years later, were they?’ Yeah. Yeah. That was one of the story Jack told me. Yeah. CH: What do you know about Jack's time in the RAF war broke out? JC: Not a lot. But you see it was all Yorkshire. He was on the bombers. The Halifax bomber. It’s the same as the bombers here. I was told the name Halifax. Lord Halifax was a Yorkshireman, and they had these big bombers and they said, ‘Right. What are we going to call this one is the Halifax.’ Because Lord Halifax had a lot of money and he backed them. That’s the story that your dad told me. SK: But he went off to Italy. Or North Africa? JC: Yes. Yeah. He went, because Monty was with the 8th Army. I think they were behind the 8th Army. I’m not sure. Or they perhaps they loaded the aeroplane up, dropped the bombs and then Monty would come up. He was with the 8th Army. He was attached to them. Yes. Definitely. SK: And then he went to Italy. JC: Yes. Yes. SK: And which side were Italy on then? Our side? Was that when they, because dad liked the Italians, didn't he? JC: Oh yes. He loved Italy, yes. He liked the Italians. They were very friendly. Very friendly. SK: Were they on our side then? JC: Oh definitely. Yes. But don’t forget Italy capitulated in the beginning. Oh yeah, they were very kind because when they were in the desert if they were near a farmhouse one of the lads would say, ‘Right. Geordie. Jack, I'm going to that farmhouse, see if we can get some eggs.’ So what the RAF lads used to do, they used to get these food bags from the UK and it was tea bags and of course these had all this tea, the lads in the hangar had the tea and then the dried tea bags they would take to the farmer and the farmer would give them six eggs for one tea bag and little did they know the tea had already been done. That was cheating, wasn’t it? Honestly. That’s what he told me [laughs] So, that was awful. You shouldn't do that. He said, ‘No. When you're young and in the middle of the desert waiting for Monty to do something.’ Yeah. CH: I’m just looking at Jack’s notes that he made. JC: Yes. CH: It says that in 1939, when war with Germany was declared he was transferred back to RAF Halton to finalise the shortened apprentice training. JC: Yeah. CH: And he passed out as an Aircraftsman First Class. JC: Yes. CH: And he was not classified as still under eighteen years of age and not eligible for [man’s] service. JC: That's right. Yeah. He was still a boy entrant. CH: And then in 1940 he was posted to Number 4 Group Headquarters at Heslington Hall in York. JC: Yeah. CH: And it says after a cup of tea he was sent to Number 4 Group, Bomber Command Communication Flight, Rawcliffe Lane, Clifton, York. JC: Rawcliffe, yeah. CH: And it says here, “Apprentice J Culkin became a popular airman to take around on site visits to look after aircraft and to do starting drills. Eventually most staff officers took an interest in showing the apprentice how to fly and allowing him to take the controls of most of the flights. He became a very good flyer.” JC: Yes. CH: And on the 2nd of July he was re-classified Aircraftsman First Class and now classified to carry out the duties of Fitter 2 on engines on all — JC: Yeah. CH: RAF aircraft. JC: Yeah. CH: He worked on flight aircraft including the Westland Lysander, a Hawker Hurricane, Supermarine Spitfire, Albatross, the Bristol Blenheim, the Bristol Botha, Handley Page. JC: Yes. CH: And then on the 3rd of December he was posted to 35 Squadron RAF Leeming in Yorkshire which was the first squadron equipped with the Handley Page Halifax bomber. JC: Yeah. CH: Did he ever talk much about flying the Halifax? JC: No. I think he enjoyed it. I think he enjoyed it. Yes. Because he knew that the lads that he worked with were good engineers. He knew that aeroplane would fly. Definitely. Yeah. He was good to the lads. CH: Do you know what was actually his role? JC: What? As an aircraft fitter? Teaching. Teaching them to use the tools properly. You know. Because we were stationed in Germany weren't we? What was the first when you went to boarding school. CH: Hildesheim. JC: Hildesheim. It was RAF Hildesheim, wasn’t it? And that was the Army Air Corps and we were the only RAF people, all the others were Army and Jack had to train some of the Army boys how to service the helicopter. And they used to come to work in hobnail boots and he’d say, ‘There’s no way you're getting on that aeroplane with those boots. Go back. Get your plimsolls on.’ Yeah. Hildesheim RAF Hildesheim] yeah. We were the only RAF people there. What was dad? Sergeant. Flight Sergeant then. SK: Flight sergeant. JC: Flight sergeant I think he was. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, Major Begby, in charge of the whole lot we were coming back to the UK and he said, ‘Look Jack. Why don't you come with us?’ ‘What?’ ‘Join the Army. You’re a sergeant now. If you join the Army now in six months you’d be a staff sergeant. Then you’d get warrant.’ I think Warrant Number 2 and then you’d go Warrant Number 1 he said. He came home. He said, ‘What do you think, Jean. What about the Army?’ I said, ‘The Army? No. I want to stay with the RAF. I like the RAF.’ And with the Army you move in a battalion. With the RAF, you’re single, you know. You know, you’re posted. A sergeant posted here. Corporal posted there. But you’re not in a group so you’re with the same people all the time. I said, ‘No. I like the RAF.’ So that was it. We stayed with the RAF. CH: I’m just going back to Jack’s notes. It says in 1941 he sat and passed the Trade Test Examination and was re-classed leading aircraftsman and is now heading a modification team working on such projects such as fitting all squadron aircraft with propeller de-icing systems. JC: Yes. CH: Modifying air intake and modifying engine controls and the station was bombed on several occasions with the station commander being killed. JC: That would be in Yorkshire. RAF. Dishforth? No. [pause] It doesn't say does it? No. CH: It says he flew, so he was posted to 76 Squadron at RAF Middleton St George. JC: Yes. CH: County Durham. JC: Yes. Yes. CH: And he flew with the squadron to Tain in Scotland with a full bomb load aboard. JC: Yes. CH: Waited several days for the weather to clear and for the squadron to bomb the German pockets battleship. The Tirpitz. JC: Yes. CH: It was hard work and long hours. JC: Yeah. CH: And he was now in charge of a maintenance crew responsible for one Halifax bomber. JC: That’s right. CH: And then in 1942 he mentions a court martial. Would you like to tell me something about that? JC: All I know about this he was one minute late. It was his turn to do guard duty and he was one minute late and the corporal in charge said, ‘Right. I’m going to charge you, Culkin. You are one minute late.’ ‘But corp, I was working on an aeroplane.’ Anyhow, the Group Captain found out about this as it goes in orders and he had the two of them in front of him and he said, ‘Do you know what corporal? The thing is this young boy is working on an aeroplane. Perhaps he's got one screw to fit in. One minute late. Admonished. No. You go back to work, Culkin.’ That was it. He could have been court martialled for one minute late. But they had to be like that, you know. SK: [unclear] JC: As your dad, I mean, you know you’ve got two stripes on your arm. Wow. CH: It actually says this happened on his nineteenth birthday. JC: Yeah. His nineteenth birthday. Yes. Just before he went overseas. CH: That was in May and then on the 10th of July all the squadron aircraft and selected crews and personnel took off in the early hours for a mission in the Middle East and he was one of them. They planned to fly and land at Mersa in North Africa. JC: Yeah. CH: Via Gibraltar. It took a few days to service the aircraft and load the bombs, fly back to base by flying over southern Italy and bomb the Italian fleet at Taranto. Over the Alps and back to base. A total tour of sixteen days. Did he ever talk about that much? JC: No. CH: No. JC: Not things like that. No. CH: If we go forward a little bit to when you got married which year, what year was that in? JC: 1946. Yeah. CH: So, the war had finished. JC: Yes. Yes. CH: Would you like to carry on about your life together then? JC: It was, it was wonderful. Not a lot of money around. I mean the pay wasn't very good. He was stationed at RAF locking and we had to live in rooms. I’d never been away from home any length of time. He eventually got us the first set of rooms. There was a bedrooms and the use of the kitchen. That was on the main road in Weston Super Mare. We were there for about two weeks. Jack used to go on his cycle, go to work and I used to just potter around in the bedroom and then think, oh, I'll go for a little walk. We were there for two weeks and then the landlady decided, ‘I'm sorry but you're going to have to go. I've got summer visitors coming.’ ‘Pardon? We've only been here two weeks.’ ‘Well, I’m sorry. You've paid the rent so you know, you can go.’ And we had to go and find accommodation. Little did we know that this was a council house on the main road and you're not supposed to sublet. So someone had obviously said mmm mmm because seeing Jack in uniform. Yeah. So somebody said. So, then we had, he had to go back to the mess and find out the roster where rooms, you know were. We did eventually get a couple of rooms but oh living with someone. Having your bedroom which you had to keep tidy which was fair enough. Use of the kitchen. Oh. Which the landlady put some money in the gas and I'd come in, ‘Oh, you can’t use that. That’s mine. You can come in half an hour and use your area.’ Oh, it was awful but you're young you know. Twenty two nearly. That was it. So we had three lots of rooms while we were, no married quarters in those days. Then eventually I found out I was pregnant. I thought oh great. Jack said, ‘Do you want to stay at Weston?’ I said, ‘No. No. I want to go home to my mum.’ So we came back. Yes. Oh, and then he had to go to RAF Locking and continue. I think he was teaching there. I’m not sure. So I stayed at home and went to see the doctor and whatnot and Dr Goodman says, ‘Get on there. Let me have a look.’ And my mum was standing by me. He felt my tummy. He said, ‘Yeah. When was your last period?’ January the what? 5th. Just a minute. October the 12th your baby is due.’ So, I said, ‘Ooh hospital.’ He said, ‘Oh no. Well, you're late. When you get pregnant you’ve got to come and see me ASAP. You can’t leave it two times, three times. You can’t. We’re all full up. I’m sorry. You’re having the baby at home.’ I said, ‘Oh, ok then.’ So, mum was with me and she said, ‘That’s alright.’ So Dr Goodman said, ‘There’s a midwife lives in your area. I’ll send her. Her name is Mrs Bowmaker so she’ll come and see you. Probably tomorrow.’ And that was it. So she was born at home. It was lovely because Mrs Bowmaker just lived around the corner. She was our local nurse. Yeah. Remember names. It's amazing. She was lovely. She really was. SK: When did you join dad again then? JC: After you were born. I think it was the end of January. You are born October. It must have been January, February because where was he posted then? SK: Debden. JC: Yes. RAF Debden. That’s right. And we got a married quarter. Yeah. Our first married quarter. SK: But I can remember before, where was it we had to queue outside in the cold for food? That horrible place. JC: RAF [pause] RAF Croft which is just on the outskirts because your dad was posted to Padgate. RAF Padgate, and just on the outskirts, RAF Croft waiting for the married quarters to be built in, it was Canberra Square. That was the married quarter we got. We had to live at RAF Croft. Oh, John was in his pram wasn’t he? SK: You were like Nissen huts, weren’t they? JC: That’s right. Yeah. They were Nissen huts. SK: Awful. And we used to have to queue outside. JC: We had to. Yes. Breakfast we had to eat with the airmen. All the people, RAF people coming back from overseas. Wives you know and sisters and brothers and all coming back to RAF Croft. Nissen huts they were literally. And we were given two rooms in a Nissen hut because we had two children. Group captain’s inspection every Thursday morning and I think did you go to like a Kindergarten? SK: I just remember queuing for food, mum. JC: Yes. SK: With the [twins] JC: We had to go to the main mess hall, didn’t we? Because John was in the pram wasn’t he? SK: I can remember mounds of coke and coal. JC: That’s right. Yes, that’s right. SK: You had to queue and go nearer and nearer the [unclear] JC: Yeah. I know. CH: So this Nissen hut. This was for you? JC: Yeah. CH: Or families. JC: Families coming back from Egypt and you name it. Coming back from overseas. Aden. CH: Do you remember which year this was? JC: Our John. What year was — SK: I can remember queuing [unclear] JC: John was, you must have been four five. Five. He was five. What year was that? SK: In fact, you said that a lot of the women whose husbands weren’t there were doing things they shouldn’t be. JC: That's right because they were dumped there. The wives and kids were dumped there you see SK: And dad was court martialled nearly there wasn’t he? JC: Yeah, because he ah that was because we had a smelly drain. We had two rooms, didn’t we? We had a drain outside and he said, ‘This is disgusting. This really is.’ So he went to his superior and he said, ‘Right, we’ll see what we can do for you sergeant.’ They didn’t do anything about it. SK: The families officer came around didn’t she? JC: Yes. Yeah. Wondering what we were complaining about and the smell was awful because it was all the nasty stuff you know. CH: What facilities did you have in the Nissen hut? JC: We had a table and four chairs. A dining table in one room. And in the other room was, Sue was in a bedroom. Was John in the same bedroom because he was a baby then. I can’t remember. SK: I can’t remember. All I can remember is queuing for food. JC: Food. Yes. Because we had to go to the mess hall for food. There was no cooking facilities in the Nissen huts. None at all. So we had to be up and be at the mess hall for seven, 7.30 when the corporal behind, you know, the cooks used to say, ‘Right. What do you want?’ Bacon, egg blah blah blah. ‘Oh, and you’ve got a baby. I can give you an extra pint of milk,’ because John was a baby. Yeah. And it was awful wasn’t it really. Did you, you didn’t — CH: Did you have shared toilets? JC: Well, the toilet was right at the end of the Nissen hut. Yes. We shared a toilet. All these people coming from the Middle East and whatnot you know. CH: And how long did you live in that for? JC: Well, we were waiting for a married quarter at Padgate. I think we were there about five months. Four months. Five months. SK: I can remember moving in to Padgate. JC: Yes. Padgate. Brand new quarters. Canberra Square. Lovely because Sue was about six. SK: No, not that old. I’ve got a picture on my [Gresham] Flyer haven’t I? JC: Oh yes. Yes. SK: With John on the back. John would then be about two I suppose. JC: Two. Yes. SK: I’d be about five. JC: Well, there was three and a half years difference roughly but yes. Eventually got a married quarter. It was lovely. CH: What year was this then that you moved to Padgate? SK: I’d be [ ] JC: You were about — SK: ’53. JC: Yeah. You were. SK: Fifty — JC: Were you eight or seven? SK: No. Not that old. JC: Eh? Were you older? SK: It was when dad went to Aden. JC: That’s right. Yes. Yeah. [recording paused] CH: Ok. So you were at, moved into married quarters at RAF Padgate. JC: Padgate. Yes. Yeah. Brand new married quarters. Beautiful. I think we were there for about eighteen months weren’t we? And then your dad was PWR. Right. Preliminary Warning Roster. So he was put, he had to go and get his jabs and whatnot and he was going to go to Aden. Khormaksar. It was either Steamer Point or Khormaksar and he was going to Khormaksar. I’m not sure whether they had a helicopter there or [pause] I don’t know what the aeroplanes were really. He was there what — SK: We were supposed to join him weren’t we? JC: Yes. We were joining. We were supposed to be. It was a two year tour. You had to wait one year for a married quarter so if the wives and families went out it would be twelve months. Jack was there for about six months but before he went away he said, ‘Right You have your inoculations. Leave the children because [TBT] was a nasty one. It makes you feel ill. So I thought, ‘Right.’ I’ll go up to the Medical Centre and have my inoculations. What not. The children could have theirs later. He’d been out there I think six months if that. Sue’s birthday was coming up October so mam came down. Auntie Mary with Steve and Alan. Nana Culkin came. October the 12th. Your birthday. Great. So we’d all been in to town. We did some shopping. Cakes and blah blah. Came back and there was a notice on the letterbox.” Urgent.” I though oh good. We’ve got a married quarter. Went in. Emptied the shopping. I thought, oh I’ll open this. “Dear Mrs Culkin, sorry to inform you —” I thought, what? “Your husband is seriously ill in hospital. The CO will get in touch with you.” I thought, oh my God. So mum, Jack’s mum said, ‘It’s alright. Auntie Mary and I will look after the kids. You go and see someone.’ So it was only about a ten minute walk to the actual entrance to the offices and whatnot. The headquarters. So I went around there, saw the corporal. He said, ‘Oh, I’ll see if the groupie is in and he will see you, Mrs Culkin.’ So I waited for about ten minutes. Then the group captain, ‘Would you come in please.’ So I went in, sat down and he said, ‘I had a signal from Khormaksar this morning. I’m sorry to tell you that your husband is seriously ill.’ I said, ‘What?’ ‘He’s had a stomach ulcer that burst.’ He said, ‘I’m getting more information. You got the telegram?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ ‘Well, I’m on the wire all the time. I get it before you.’ So I said, ‘Yeah. What happens now?’ He said, ‘Well, have you had your innoculations?’ I said, ‘Yes. I’m up to date. I had them before my husband left.’ He said, ‘Because maybe this week I could fly you out. It depends. Who could look after the children?’’ That’s ok. Somebody would.’ So he said, ‘Could you come and see me tomorrow at 9 o’clock? I’ll have another signal by then.’ I said, ‘Yes. Certainly.’ So I came home. That was Sue’s party. So I went around the next morning. He saw me straight away. He said, ‘Right. Sit down.’ I thought, oh this is terrible. He said, ‘No. There’s been a slight improvement. He’s taking tablespoons of goat’s milk.’ No cows over there. It’s goat’s milk. ‘He can’t eat anything but he’s having these tablespoons of goats milk. He’s been unconscious for over twenty four hours but now he’s coming around,’ from whatever, you know. The MOs quite worried about him but we’ll keep you in touch.’ So the group captain said, ‘I’m not flying you out. I don’t want to do that now. Come and see me tomorrow at 9 o’clock if you will.’ I said, ‘Yes, certainly.’ I went around and he said, ‘Good news Mrs Culkin. He’s much better. He’s not taking food but he’s drinking milk. It’s goat’s milk. No cows in Aden.’ So, he said, ‘I’ll be on to them again sometime tomorrow. But you can come and see me tomorrow any time. Whatever time you wish. I’ll have time for you.’ And so I had to come back and tell the family blah blah blah. Mary had to get home because the boys had to do schooling and what not. I think Nanna Culkin had to go home. So there was just Jean and Sue and John. I went and saw him the next day, the groupie and he said, ‘Good news. I'm not flying you. Your husband has gained consciousness and we don't know whether he is going to finish tour out there. I said, ‘Oh, we’re probably near the top of the housing list.’ He said, ‘Oh that’s the by and by. No.’ And sure enough the next day the corporal came around the next day. ‘Sorry, Mrs Culkin, ‘I don't think you're going to Aden.’ ‘I’m not going. Oh, that’s sad.’ He said, ‘Don’t be sad. It’s an awful place. If you see the group captain on Friday he’ll fill you in.’ So I had to go and see him again on Friday. He said, ‘You're not going out. We’re going to get your husband back.’ I said, ‘Back. I thought I’d enjoy it out there.’ ‘No. No. No. No. So, you'll just have to stay in your married quarter and we’ll let you know when your husband’s home.’ He’d probably come home by I don’t think aeroplane because in those days aeroplanes didn’t fly as much for families. I think he was coming home on the Empire Windrush. He came, that's right. Oh you were at sea for — SK: Was that the one the one they used for the West Indians? JC: No. It blew up eventually. The Empire Windrush. Yeah. The next. Your dad got home from the Empire Windrush. Right. And he had a months leave. He had to go and see the doctor. The MO. Sick quarters every other day because of his tummy and what not. But the next time the Windrush came it blew up. So he missed it. Yeah. Yeah, he missed it. SK: That was good luck there then. JC: I know. I know. Then he was put on lighter duties. I think its A4G4 something it’s called. When you’re not A1 you’re A4G4. So he was on the bottom because of his tummy ulcer and he thought My God. Now, I’ve got to get myself fit to be A1, which he did. Then that was it about Padgate I think. CH: What job was Jack doing then? JC: Sorry? CH: When he came back from Aden what, what job was he doing? JC: He was, at Padgate he was teaching the old apprentices. Aircraft apprentices. One level to another doing modules. Is that what they’re called? Yes. He was teaching. Yeah. That was a good job because he was eight until five. 8 o’clock until five. Another job it would be God knows when he’d get in. but it was a school for the young apprentices. Yeah. CH: So, he came back from Aden — JC: Yes. CH: Where did he go to after that? Did you stay at Padgate? JC: No, because we got another posting after that didn’t we? SK: It must have been, was it Odiham? JC: It could have been RAF Odiham. That’s where the choppers were. SK: Odiham. JC: RAF Odiham. Hampshire. SK: 11 [unclear] Road. JC: Eh? SK: 11 [Unclear] Road. Was it 11 [unclear] Road. Yes. Yeah. Nice married quarter. Yeah. Very nice. We had a married quarter. Very nice because she went to school there and John started school there didn’t he? Yeah. And we hadn’t bought, we hadn’t had a car then. Didn’t have enough money so I said to your dad, ‘How about me going to work? John is now seven. At school.’ So he said, ‘Alright. I’ll go in to HSQ this afternoon and see if there’s anything going.’ He came back that night and he said, ‘Would you like to work in HSQ?’ I said, ‘Yeah. What?’ He said, ‘You've got to see the Warrant Officer on Monday morning.’ ‘Oh okay.’ I went and saw the Warrant Officer and he said, ‘Have you worked in an office before?’ I said, ‘Oh yes. I've always worked in an office.’ He said, ‘Well, what we’re looking for is a movements clerk.’ I said, ‘Yeah. Ok.’ So he said, ‘Can we see you 8 o'clock Monday?’ ‘Yes.’ So I went and saw him and he said, ‘Right, Mrs Culkin you are working in this room. The orderly room. You are our movements clerk.’ No WAAFs in those days. Not in all the camps. No. No. All airmen. So I was in this room. There's my counter. There's my desk and I've got all these four airmen behind me and the flight Sergeant, my boss was up there. I went and I thought oh my God. ‘Right. Come in Mrs Culkin. Now, have you used a Bradshaw’s?’ I said, ‘What’s a Bradshaw’s?’ ‘Its a timetable for trains.’ You know. ‘And then you’ve got timetables for buses. You’re a movements clerk.’ I said, ‘Yeah.’ ‘What will happen, we get a note from HSQ for boys who are being posted. First of all they’ll come to see you. You are movements clerk. You will already have a letter for me, your flight sergeant to say where these men are going and you’ve got to write out a warrant for which train. You look up the train times, what time they get there, if they change and you will give them a bus warrant. They might need a bus to get to the railway station.’ ‘Yes. Alright.’ God, this was my first day. I’ll die. I can’t do it. I said this to the AC1 behind. ‘I can’t.’ He said, ‘Can I call you Jean?’ I said, ‘Yes, of course you can.’ He said, ‘That’s it. You’re now a movements clerk. Yeah. Ok. So — CH: That was a lot of responsibility. JC: It was, yeah. CH: To make sure they were on the right train and in the right place. JC: Yeah. The mail used to be brought in to the next office and it was all sorted. And then Movements. I’d get my pile here and think oh yeah. Oh my God. And then you’d got to go to the Cardex and find the airman, get his card out, put it down here, get your pad. Where does he work? Oh yeah, he’s in hangar number five. Corporal so and so. Account number 5. “Come to see movements clerk ASAP.” Put that in the mailbox and the maily, the corporal would go around and then you’d see these guys. ‘Where am I going, Jean?’ ‘I’m sorry. I’m sorry.’ Where am I going?’ ‘Oh, yeah. Oh you’re going there. Oh. Oh not overseas. No. Not yet. No. You’re not PWR.’ Preliminary Warning Roster. ‘No. You’re not. No. You’re going the other end of the country.’ SK: Could you arrange for them to have better postings then? JC: Oh no. Oh no. That came from HSQ. No. That was nothing to do with me because some of the maybe a corporal airman, ‘I don’t want to go there, Mrs Culkin.’ ‘I’m sorry.’ You know. And then don’t forget I had the Cardex. So whenever they moved I had to move from one hangar to another and then when eventually, when they eventually left the station that was blocked there. You put their card in there so they’d gone gone gone. They’d probably gone somewhere else you see. CH: Gosh. JC: It was very good. It was 8 o’clock until five I think. An hour for lunch. SK: That’s probably why your memory’s so good now. JC: Do you reckon? SK: Yeah. JC: Oh, it was fun. I mean movements. I’ve got photographs. I was showing you last week. There’s me in the front and the lads behind me. CH: This was at RAF Odiham. JC: This was RAF Odiham. SK: Odiham. JC: Yes. Yeah. That was a new quarter wasn’t it. Hampshire. Yes. CH: Gosh. Do you remember how long you stayed at that station for? JC: Was it three and a half, four years? SK: No. Not that long because I had to go to boarding school because you went to Germany. JC: Oh yeah. We were Preliminary Warning Roster. We got our posting to Germany, didn’t we? RAF. SK: Was that ’58 ’59? JC: Yes. About ’58. Yes. SK: Does that tie in? JC: Yeah, because she was eleven. SK: If you were eleven and you were in the RAF and you were posted to Germany. JC: Yes. SK: You had three big boarding schools. JC: Yes. SK: You couldn't go to day school. JC: No. SK: You had to go to boarding school because John Hamley went as well didn’t he? JC: That’s right. SK: I went to Prince Rupert School in Wilhelmshaven. JC: Yeah. Because the school only taught to the age of eleven so Sue had to — CH: So you went to Germany with your parents. JC: Oh yes. CH: And you were in boarding school in Germany. JC: She could have either gone — SK: Because John was younger. JC: Yeah. SK: He went just to the day school didn’t he? JC: If Sue had wished they said you could either go back to the UK, stay with grandparents in Sunderland or grandparents in Newcastle. But, ‘No. I don't want to do that. So she went to Wilhelmshaven. Boarding school. Yeah. SK: Which some years earlier had been a big SS base. JC: Yeah. It was. SK: On the south coast [unclear] JC: Was it the Navy? Was it the — SK: Yes. It was the deepest what do you call it? Harbour. JC: Harbour. Yes. Wilhelmshaven. SK: Where all the warships used to come in. JC: That’s right. SK: It’s great in the summer but very cold in the winter. JC: In the winter. But board. SK: I slept in the old billets I suppose. JC: Yes. SK: For the German Navy. JC: Oh God. Broke our hearts. Never been away from home before and you were, how far were you? Two hundred miles was it? SK: Two, two fifty something like that. JC: We couldn’t see you for six weeks because the head said, ‘No. If you come and see the children you’ll upset them. So can you leave it for six weeks?’ So we went up after six weeks but she was fine. We thought oh God. Oh, John thought it was great. SK: He was at home. JC: I’ve got my mum and dad all to myself. My sister’s gone away weee [laughs] yeah. CH: And how long were you in Germany? JC: Two and a half years. This was when Major Begby who was in charge. Army Air Corps, it was. That’s when he said to Jack, ‘Look, your promotion. What are you? Sergeant? Flight sergeant? If you come to us Jack you’d be a warrant officer two, warrant officer one. Then you’d go for your commission in about five, six years.’ So, ‘I’ll have to go home and ask Jean. See what she thinks.’ He came home and he said, ‘Hey, hows about joining the Army?’ I said, ‘Padron?’ ‘Yeah. Look, we move in battalions. Not like we do. Singly.’ I said, ‘No.’ The Welsh Regiment was there then and the girls, everybody knew each other all the time but you used to know oh yeah. Oh yeah. ‘We’re all going there. Great.’ Mates forever. In the RAF you don’t do that. You make new friends. I said, ‘No, Jack. Do you want to go in the Army?’ He said, ‘Not really. I’ll tell Major Begby tomorrow.’ Yeah. Ok then. So we didn’t go in the Army. Anyhow, the Army go on schemes and the guys are away for about three or four months at a time because the girls, we all lived in, it was a block of flats then, wasn’t it? And the girls they were lovely. Welsh Regiment weren’t they? They could all sprechen sie Deutsch and the girl next door said, ‘Have you been to Germany before Jean?’ I said, ‘No.’ ‘So you can’t sprechen sie Deutsch.’ I said, ‘No.’ She said, ‘I’ll tell you what when they kids have gone to school I’ll take you shopping.’ ‘Yeah. Ok.’ The first thing I learned was kleines weiβes brot bitte. A small white loaf please. SK: [unclear] JC: I know. And then she said, ‘Right. We’ll take you to the butcher’s shop. But you get by and it was two and a half years, wasn’t it? And it was wonderful. Yeah. It was absolutely wonderful because the Army Air Corps were good. And I think there was one Royal Navy petty officer. It was funny that. The Army, Navy and Air Force all at, what was the Navy doing with the RAF and the Army? Never knew. But he was a petty officer so he must have been good. SK: May have got the wrong movements clerk. JC: I hope not. Not guilty my lord. But Hildesheim was nice. Yeah. CH: Then it was RAF Leconfield. JC: Yes. After that posted to RAF Leconfield. CH: 1961. JC: Yes. Yes. Sue went to [pause] What happened there? Had you finished? SK: Longcroft School. JC: You went to Longcroft. Did John? John was still at school wasn’t he? SK: I don’t know where. He’d be on camp I think. JC: Yes. Yeah. Could have been. Yeah. So, Leconfield. SK: And then on to — JC: That was Yorkshire. Leconfield wasn’t it? SK: Then where? Then to here. JC: What? SK: Was it Scampton or – JC: Scampton. Waddington. We went to both didn’t we? SK: Then to Germany. You went to Germany. JC: Oh yeah, we went to — SK: Oh, did you go to Hong Kong? No. You went to Hong Kong. JC: Hong Kong for a tour. Yes. That’s how, of course we went to Hong Kong. That was lovely. We had a choice. Jack, I think your dad was at Scampton. Waddington. I’m not sure. He saw the movements clerk and he said, ‘The thing is Jack you’ve got a choice. You’ve got Singapore. Hong Kong.’ ‘What do we do?’ So he said, ‘Tell you what. Go home. Discuss it with the family. Let us, let us know tomorrow.’ So he came home that night and talked about it and I didn’t mind either. I don’t know whether it was you said Hong Kong or John. I don’t know. Anyhow, posted to Hong Kong two and a half years. And Sue said, ‘Ok. I’ll come with you but I’m not sure whether I’ll like it.’ And we said, ‘It’’ll be alright, Sue,’ you know. ‘Meet new people.’ Because you were twenty then weren’t you? Twenty. Yes. SK: Twenty one. JC: Twenty one. She had her twenty first in Hong Kong, but John, ‘Oh yeah. I’m all for it.’ That was it. So, two and a half years. But after six months. SK: Yeah. I came back. JC: Sue couldn’t stand the heat and the crowds and, ‘Dad, I want to go home. I’ve had enough. Can I go back to Lincoln?’ Went to stay with two friends didn’t you. ‘Oh, you can’t go on your own, Sue. You’re only twenty one. Please stay.’ ‘No. No. I’ll buy a wig mam before I go.’ Do you remember you bought a wig? SK: I did. JC: You did. Why? I don’t know. You had beautiful hair. Anyhow — SK: The humidity. JC: That’s it and the crowds of people. You couldn’t, not used to it. SK: It was the humidity I think. JC: But there again you had a job there didn’t you? SK: A good job. JC: She had a good, the Hong Kong Electric Light Company. Typist. SK: I was PA to the boss. JC: Yeah. She had, do you know what. She was earning more than her father who was a warrant. She was. SK: [unclear] what I was earning here. I had a super job. I don’t know [unclear] but I did. JC: ’No. I can’t stay dad. Really. I don’t like it. It’s too, I can’t stand the heat.’ SK: Yes. JC: That was the spring. SK: And that’s then end of the story. We ended up here. JC: Yes. Yeah. She came back and that was it. Met Jim. Jack was due to come out of the RAF. CH: Ok. Right. So the final base was Waddington. JC: RAF Waddington. Yes. That was a nice posting. Of course, the children had grown up. I was more or less just doing housework, you now. I’d more or less finished work on camps. On any camp. I thought oh my God. And then we had to think about coming out of the RAF. We knew that these bungalows were being built so we came down. Saw the boss man, put down a deposit and then we got this bungalow. No. That's about it, I think. CH: That was in the 1980s. JC: 1980s. Yeah. 1980s. Yeah. I think that’s about it because I think Sue had by then met Jim. [background voice] CH: Interview paused for a moment. [recording paused] CH: Ok. So, interview restarted. You were just going to put the deposit down on this bungalow. JC: Yes. Jack was due to come out of the RAF at fifty five. And that was about it, you know. He said, ‘Right. I’ve got to come out some time.’ Because he loved, he loved his job. He loved looking after the lads. The airmen thought the world of him. When we were at RAF Gutersloh the group captain said, ‘Right Jack, when you get back to the UK that will be your last tour so we want to do something special here.’ He said, ‘Oh, please no.’ He said, ‘It’s just a little party.’ Because he got on with all the lads whatever rank, you know. Anyhow, I was working at RAF Gutersloh as well. They wanted someone in the, I don’t know, we did ordering. My friend Carol and I did ordering. Airmen used to come in, Air Publications, ‘Right. Jean, I want this. Can you get me this booklet?’ Every Monday morning a pilot would come in, ‘Can you get me this booklet? This booklet.’ Because all the orders used to go to RAF Bruggen. They arrived there at the weekend and on the following morning they’d be back. They’d be flown back to Gutersloh so all the officers and airmen could come in and get their books and whatnot. I did that for about two years and I loved every minute of it, you know. It was absolutely wonderful. And there was, I must tell you this, Carol, my friend her husband was a corporal. We used to take sandwiches to work and she said, ‘Jean, I'll take you to the Corporals Club.’ I said, ‘I can't. Jack’s a warrant.’ She said, ‘No. We can have a cup of tea. Bring your sarnies and we’ll sit and have a natter and I can say hello to my husband. He’s over there. He's a corporal.’ ‘Yeah, ok.’ So we were having our sandwiches and I’m sitting back listening to all this going on. A lot of lads, you know having sandwiches and natter natter and who walks in the door but Jack in uniform. If he had his hat on like that I knew there was trouble. So he goes straight, he could see me. He couldn’t miss me and I thought oh my God. I thought he’d come for me. No. He’d come to two lads a the counter and he said, ‘What do you think you’re doing?’ You know you're working on blooming helicopters, aeroplanes and you're drinking beer. My office. 2 o'clock.’ I thought oh God. I didn't dare look at Jack. He was so stern. Anyhow, I got back to work and that night he picked me up at five, I finished at five and I said, ‘What was that?’ He said, ‘I couldn't look at you love because I would have laughed but when I put my hat on straight like that they know they're in trouble.’ I thought, ‘What happened?’ He said, ‘I got back to the office, got back to my desk, took my hat off and put it on the side and I said, ‘Right. You two stand there you stupid nincompoops.’ So I put my hat on like that, I said, ‘What the hell do you think you're doing? You're working on choppers. Drinking beer. 12 o'clock. You’re working on engines for Christ’s sake.’ Yeah. And he really really told them off. ‘Sorry sir. We shan’t do it again.’ He said, ‘You do that again I’m going to really report you to the CO. The CO knows nothing about this but he will do.’ And he frightened the living daylights out of them. That told them. He said, ‘But you’ve got to teach them. You can't drink beer when you're working on aeroplanes.’ You know. And that was it. Yeah. I said to Carol, ‘I’m never coming to your club again.’ [laughs] But I'm still in touch with Carol. Yeah. Her husband, when they got back to, they came back to England the year before us. Oh, she was lovely. She comes from Liverpool. And she'd been back a year and then she found out she was pregnant. She had twin girls. And the twin girls I think were two year old and he met somebody else. He, he was an electrician. He came out the RAF, got this job in this factory and the boss of the factory was Swiss, a Swiss lady and it was love at first sight so got a divorce from Carol. So I still write and she says, ‘Jean, never mention his name to me again.’ Because the girl twin girls are now twenty, twenty five years old and got children of their own. We write every month I suppose and she says, she often says in her letter, “You know, my dear friend I can't believe we've been writing from 1970 when we got back to the UK. It’s wonderful.” You know. Yeah. Once a month we write. I haven't seen her. Our Sue says, ‘Why don’t you get a telephone number?’ I say, ‘Sue, if I start talking to Carol I’ll never, I’ll never get off. I mean we write pages and pages Can you imagine the telephone bill?’ No. We keep it as it is. Yeah. Carol, bless her. Carol. CH: You mentioned Jack — JC: Yes. CH: On his final posting they were going to do a little do for him. JC: Yes. Yeah. Oh, at RAF Gutersloh. Yes. Yeah. I’ve got pictures of that as well. I think they’re in there. I’m not sure. And they said he said we came home on the Thursday night. He was leaving them on the Friday because we had to get back to get back to the UK. He said, ‘There’s something happening at work.’ I said, ‘There’s bound to be.’ He said, ‘Have you heard anything in Air Publications?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Well, some of the officers come in? Haven’t they mentioned?’ I said, ‘No. Nobody has said anything. Why would they tell me?’ He said, ‘I’ve got a funny feeling.’ I said, ‘Yes. Ok. God, stop worrying about it. We’ve got packing to do when we get back home and get the boxes ready for going back to the UK.’ Right. So, he said, ‘Ok.’ Came back and that was the Thursday and on Friday he dropped me off at my office, Air Publications and I knew there was something going on because I had, one of the officers had been in. He said, ‘Don’t you dare say anything.’ I said, ‘Promise. I won’t say a thing.’ And he, Jack knew there was something was going on months beforehand because the airmen were disappearing. They got through their work but he thought this is very odd. What the hell are they doing? But they kept up to date with their work, you know and eventually on the day of leaving, because he dropped me off at work at 8 o’clock that morning and I thought I wonder what’s going on. I know. I’m going to ask my flight sergeant if I can walk up to his hangar. And do you know what these lads had built? A wooden helicopter. There’s photographs in there and he’s standing on the steps with a group captain here drinking because the groupie said, ‘You know forty years is a long time, Jack. All the best and I hope you enjoy Civvy Street.’ Yeah. So they said, ‘Right chief. Get in.’ And they pulled him in this chopper right around the airfield. Stopped at every, everything. ‘Bye Jack. Hope you’ve enjoyed your forty years.’ Yeah. Yeah. And it was absolutely wonderful and when he picked me up that night it was lateish. It was half past five, 6 o’clock. He said, ‘Did you know anything about it?’ I said, ‘No. I knew nothing about it.’ I was sworn to secrecy. He said, ‘Did you know they were going to build that little chopper?’ I said, ‘No.’ All out of wood. You see one of the corporals would say, ‘Right. I’m going to disappear for a half an hour. You cover for me.’ And they’d go in to another part of the hangar. This, yeah. It had wood, it was all made of wood. The wings there, two wheels there and two wheels at the back and a little seat inside. And there’s a picture there of Jack on these steps and the groupie standing with a glass of champagne on him [unclear] Yeah, but forty years is a long time and he said, ‘Right. Where are you going Jack?’ And he said, ‘I think I’m in Lincoln somewhere. I don’t know. Waddington. Scampton. I think it might be Scampton.’ He said, ‘Well, good luck. All the best.’ Yeah. I think we went to Scampton first. Yes. Went to Scampton and then Waddo. Yeah. To finish off, you know. But it was good. Open Air Days over here when Jack was at Scampton or Waddo because if you were in uniform, you know Sue and Jim and the boys were only this and no entrance fees. ‘Right. Come on.’ You know. Well, now I think its about, is it about twenty, thirty pound to get in Open Day? It’s quite a lot. But it’s all for a good cause, you know. I mean, I watch it on telly. Absolutely wonderful. All these things that are going on. When Jack and I were in it there’s only a little few sort of little offices where they had cups of tea and sandwiches and biscuits but now it’s ginormous. Which is fantastic, you know. Yeah. So that was the end of that. CH: Some wonderful happy memories. JC: I know. Absolutely. And I’ve still got them. CH: Yes. JC: Which is good, you know. As I say to our Sue your body might give up but this is the most important part isn’t it, you know. I can say, ‘Help. My legs won’t move today, Sue.’ She’d say, ‘Yeah, alright mum.’ But you see when we left Hong Kong John was what? Seventeen. And our Sue, she was in England, couldn’t stand the heat. And of course, it came for us coming back and he’d finished schooling out there. He was just on seventeen and he said, ‘You know what, Dad, I don’t want to go back to the UK.’ ‘What? What are you going to do?’ He said, ‘I like Hong Kong. I like the life. I've got come nice school mates out here. We've all left school now, passed our exams and done this, that and the other. Do you think I could stay out for a couple of years?’ ‘Oh John. I don't like leaving you.’ He said, ‘I'll tell you what I'm going to look for a job. We have got a month before you get back so I’ll try and get this job. If I don’t get it I’ll come back to the UK with you.’ Damn me. He got this job at Rediffusion. Hong Kong Rediffusion. He came in for his lunch that day. It was only a half an hour. He could walk. ‘Mum and dad if — ’ we had a television about this big, in those days black and white, he said, ‘Watch that tonight. You might see something.’ I said, ‘The news? We know the news. Hong Kong news.’ He said, ‘No. Watch it.’ ‘Ok.’ So he said, ‘I’ll see you about 10 o'clock tonight.’ ‘OK.’ So, the 6 o’clock news came on and it was from RAF. What? ‘And we are now training some of our pilots —' What they do is take you out in an aeroplane, drop you in the water. You’ve got the thing, your life jacket on and whatnot and somebody comes and rescues you. And John says, ‘They’re trying me.’ They were trying him that day. ‘John, will you jump out?’ ‘Ok.’ Our John jumped out and that’s where he was on telly. Yeah. So he came up to the mic and he said, ‘That was the first jump I’ve ever done from RAF Kai Tak. Thank you.’ That was it. So came in that night. ‘I thought the likes of that by God it was scary but luckily I had the life jacket on and everything. Can I stay? Please? I finished my schooling. I think might have a job, you know.’ ‘Where?’ ‘RTHK.’ ‘What doing?’ ‘Television. Look we did all that today and I did most of the camera work.’ Oh God. And that was it. That was John in Hong Kong and that. He didn’t want to come back. Sue couldn’t get back quick enough. She couldn’t stand the heat. It was hot, you know if you’re not used to it. And he’d been out there about three or four years and he sent us tickets for a holiday. First class. BA. Yeah. It was a lovely. Lovely. But by then he’d met Flora and what not. He’d met her. She was in Miss Hong Kong blah blah blah and I think she came in second. And of course that’s Flora. That’s her birthday thing. And he met Flora because with RTHK they were taking photographs and whatnot and he asked her for a date and that was it. They've been married, she's fifty six this year so they've been married, they've had their Pearl wedding anniversary. Yeah. Because Justin is now, their elder son is twenty nine and Emma is eighteen. No. Sorry. She’s twenty one. Yes. And she’s just started university in Beijing where her brother is. Because Justin he got a job in Beijing. He’s marketing and he’s just had a good promotion. He’s just come back from Shanghai. Because now with those phones he can talk to his mum day or night can’t he? I haven’t got one of those phones. Because when she was here yesterday she said, ‘Oh, Justin wants to say hello.’ I said, ‘Oh, hi Just.’ He said, ‘Are you alright nanna? Your hair looks different nana.’ I said, ‘I know. It’s age, you know Justin [laughs] All the curls have gone.’ He said, ‘No. You look good. I’ll see you at Christmas.’ I said, ‘Are you?’ He said, ‘Yeah. We’re coming for Christmas.’ So he's coming and Emma’s coming because Emma’s just started Uni there learning Mandarin. No more Cantonese. It’s all Mandarin because the Chinese took over didn’t they? When we left how many years is that? Quite a few. So you’ve got to learn and our John’s been there all this time and he can not speak Cantonese or Mandarin. ‘I’m not learning that. If they can’t speak English they can’t speak English.’ But you know. So that’s about it. CH: With Jack and his career in the RAF. JC: Yes. CH: You’ve travelled and stayed all around the world. JC: I know. And I met people, wives who said, ‘Travelling? What? You're moving again?’ ‘Yeah. What about you?’ ‘No. I'm not moving my two boys.’ This was a corporal’s wife. ‘No. My boy’s education comes first. No. My husband can go anywhere he wants.’ And I used to say, ‘No way.’ Jack would say, ‘No way. I’m not putting you down. I want you with me. Why get married? What's the point? Why get married if you're going to leave your wife in a house because of education?’ I mean our Sue and John have done well in their education no matter where we've been they've gone to schools or colleges you know. It's been great for them. I mean we've got Flora now and two lovely grandchildren. Where is Emma? There's Emma. And there’s Justin. CH: A wonderful family. JC: I know. Just how old is Justin now? Gosh. Thirtysomething. Our Emma's twenty one. There’s nine years between them. They wanted, isn’t it amazing when you want children, you can't have them then all of a sudden, ‘I'm pregnant.’ Because there's nine years between them. No, but it's great. It’s lovely. CH: So how long have you lived in this bungalow? JC: 1974, I think. Jack was leaving the RAF so we had to have somewhere to live and start getting furniture, you know. This is not the same furniture we had when we moved in. Yes. Yeah. And we thought, ‘My God. The garden.’ There was a hell of a garden at the back and at the front. Jack and I used to do it and then of course I lost him. So, our Jim said, ‘Don’t worry mum.’ He loves gardening and he only lived at the top of the hill. Jim does all the gardening. Bless him. CH: But when did Jack pass away? JC: 1999. CH: ’99. JC: 1999. Yeah. He didn't see the New Year. You know. The centenary. No. We were at my sisters at Albrighton just on the outskirts Birmingham. She said, ‘Jack and Jean why don't you come up for four or five days?’ So Jim said, ‘It’s alright dad. You're not driving. I’ll take you.’ So we went for the weekend. That was Friday and Saturday. It was great. We went out with my sister and brother in law in the morning because Sue and Jim had come back here. And it was on the Sunday afternoon we'd been walking around, you know looking at various things in their village. Got back and Mary had done dinner for us. Spaghetti Bolognese. Really enjoyed it. It was great. I think it was about 10ish and Jack said, ‘Oh, do you mind if I go to bed? I feel ever so tired’ I said, ‘I shan’t be long.’ He said, ‘No. Don’t be long’ So right. So Mary and Bob went to bed and then I went to the bathroom, washed my hands and what not and he said, ‘Do you know I feel a bit odd.’ I said, ‘Do you? Are you too hot?’ he said, ‘No. Not really.’ So, I said, ‘Alright then. You go to that side of the bed and I’ll —’ It was a double bed. It was a six footer. And I think it was about 1 o'clock in the morning I heard him make this funny noise and I thought what the hell was that? I said, ‘Are you alright?’ And his head went like that. I thought oh my God. I got up and put the light on. Mary was in the downstairs bedroom with Bob and I shouted like hell. ‘What?’ I said, ‘Mary, can you dial 999?’ ‘Why?’ ‘Jack’s not very well. Please please hurry up. Hurry up’ So the ambulance, they couldn't find Albrighton. They couldn't find the village and I mean when we eventually got to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham they said you’ve got about four minutes, you know, when you have one of these attacks. It was a massive. He never had heart trouble in his life. Never. CH: How old was he? JC: How old was he when he died, bless him? Well, he was two years older than me so, I think he was seventy, seventy five. About seventy five. Yeah. I was about seventy three. Yeah. Seventy five. Just enjoying retirement, you know from the RAF and whatnot. But it was quick. By God it was quick. So we had to, eventually had to get in the ambulance. The ambulance chap was working on him but I thought ahum. There’s something wrong here. And the driver shouting to the back, ‘Can you hold tight please?’ So quick. I mean it was 2 o'clock in the morning. Luckily no traffic around. We got to the hospital and they worked on him but the doctor, lady doctor came in and said, ‘I’m sorry, Jean.’ I said, ‘Oh my.’ In shock. Then of course we had to get in touch with Sue and Jim at three or 4 o’clock in the morning. They got up, got dressed, came straight down you see. Luckily Jim being in the police force he said, ‘Now, what's going to happen mam because we're in a different county there’s going to be a young policeman,’ he said, ‘I've just spoken to him and he's going to take notes.’ He said, ‘He’s just going to ask you a few questions and just answer yes or no.’ Which I did. And then the doctor came in. A female doctor. She was lovely. She said, ‘You’re from Lincoln, aren't you?’ I said, ‘Yes. We live in Lincoln.’ She said, ‘I’ve just done four years in Lincoln Hospital.’ I said, ‘Oh that’s amazing.’ She said, ‘But I’m ever so sorry. There was just nothing we could do. It was a massive coronary.’ Whatever. And that was it. It was terrible coming back home. Jim driving and me in the back. Sue there. And oh God. Sue couldn’t get over it because dad’s favourite. But there you go. That’s life and I thought oh. And that was seventeen years ago almost. What do you do? You can't give in, can you? CH: What a wonderful life you had. JC: I know. Absolutely. CH: Absolutely. JC: Wonderful. I’d do it all again. CH: And fantastic memories. I’d just like to, we’ll end it there. JC: Yes. CH: But thank you so much. JC: Yes. CH: So much for telling your story. JC: No. You’re most welcome. CH: It’s been wonderful. JC: Thank you ever so much. CH: Thank you very much Jean. JC: Very kind of you. No. Thank you. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jean Culkin Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Cathie Hewitt Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-09-13 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context ACulkinJ170913, PCulkinJ1702 Conforms To An established standard to which the described resource conforms. Pending review Pending revision of OH transcription Description An account of the resource Jean Culkin grew up in Sunderland and worked as a tea girl and then a typist in a reserved occupation. She discusses her life and her wedding to her husband, John George Mackel Culkin who was an apprentice at RAF Halton before becoming a fitter (engines). He served with 35 Squadron at RAF Leeming before being posted overseas to North Africa and Italy. After the war Jean accompanied her husband on postings to Germany and Hong Kong. Language A language of the resource eng Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Civilian Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. China Germany Great Britain China--Hong Kong England--Somerset England--Sunderland (Tyne and Wear) England--Yorkshire England--Newcastle upon Tyne England--Weston-super-Mare Germany--Gütersloh England--Durham (County) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 01:40:34 audio recording Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Julie Williams Maureen Clarke 35 Squadron 4 Group 76 Squadron fitter engine ground crew ground personnel Halifax home front love and romance military discipline RAF Halton RAF Leeming RAF Locking RAF Middleton St George Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany--Gütersloh Description An account of the resource This page is an entry point for a place. Please use the links below to see all relevant documents available in the Archive. Title A name given to the resource Gütersloh [entry point] https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/371/6144/SCavalierRG1264567v10030-0001.2.jpg 77124bef51d7631aae108cfe276d3b95 https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/files/original/371/6144/SCavalierRG1264567v10030-0002.2.jpg 6928b881fc36edc58486e9d5caf530fe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cavalier, Reginald George. Album 2 Description An account of the resource 35 items. The album contains service material, Christmas cards, and propaganda leaflets in German, French and English. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017-04-10 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Cavalier, RG Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Christmas Card Description An account of the resource Christmas card with a photograph of Mosquito, TA118 on the front. Captioned '140 Wing RAF Gutersloh BAFO BAOR December 1945.' It is signed 'Phyll and Jim' and has a handwritten comment 'How do you like my [pal?] on nose of A/C?'. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1945-12 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Two sides of a printed card Language A language of the resource eng Type The nature or genre of the resource Artwork Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SCavalierRG1264567v10030-0001, SCavalierRG1264567v10030-0002 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Royal Air Force Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Germany Germany--Gütersloh Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available IBCC Digital Archive Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal. Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1945-12 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Great Britain. Royal Air Force Mosquito