]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Julie Tompkins]]> Pending revision of OH transcription]]> eng]]> Sound]]> Royal Air Force]]> Royal Air Force. Bomber Command]]> Royal Air Force. Transport Command]]> Germany]]> Great Britain]]> Malaysia]]> India]]> Atlantic Ocean--English Channel]]> England--Bolton]]> England--Bury St. Edmunds]]> England--Derby]]> England--London]]> England--Staffordshire]]> England--Yorkshire]]> Germany--Cologne]]> Germany--Karlsruhe]]> India--Kolkata]]> Malaysia--Pulau Pinang (State)]]> 1939]]> 1943-05-22]]> 1944-01]]> 1945]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Julie Williams]]> Maureen Clarke]]> Pending review]]> eng]]> Sound]]> Royal Air Force]]> France]]> Germany]]> Great Britain]]> England--Lincolnshire]]> England--Yorkshire]]> France--Mailly-le-Camp]]> Germany--Berlin]]> 1943]]> 1944]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Andy Shaw]]> Julie Williams]]> Maureen Clarke]]> Carolyn Emery]]> Sound]]> Royal Air Force]]> Royal Air Force. Bomber Command]]> Canada]]> Nova Scotia]]> Nova Scotia--Halifax]]> United States]]> Florida]]> Florida--Pensacola]]> England--Devon]]> England--Yorkshire]]> England--Gloucestershire]]> England--Harrogate]]> North Africa]]> Egypt]]> Egypt--Cairo]]> Italy]]> Italy--Brindisi]]> Ireland]]> Florida]]> Great Britain]]> 1944]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Sue Smith]]> Julie Williams]]> Maureen Clarke]]> Carolyn Emery]]> eng]]> Sound]]> Royal Air Force]]> Royal Air Force. Bomber Command]]> Royal Air Force. Coastal Command]]> Canada]]> Prince Edward Island]]> Great Britain]]> Scotland]]> England--Harrogate]]> England--Yorkshire]]> Italy]]> Italy--Naples]]> Italy--Brindisi]]> France]]> France--Nieppe]]> 1944]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Julie Williams]]> Maureen Clarke]]> Pending review]]> Pending revision of OH transcription]]> eng]]> Sound]]> Royal Air Force]]> Royal Air Force. Bomber Command]]> Germany]]> Great Britain]]> Poland]]> England--Suffolk]]> Germany--Frankfurt am Main]]> Germany--Munich]]> Germany--Oberursel]]> Germany--Rastatt]]> Poland--Tychowo]]> Germany--Titisee]]> 1944]]> 1945]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Maureen Clarke]]> Pending review]]> Pending revision of OH transcription]]> eng]]> Sound]]> Royal Air Force]]> Royal Air Force. Bomber Command]]> Germany]]> Great Britain]]> Poland]]> England--Suffolk]]> Germany--Frankfurt am Main]]> Germany--Oberursel]]> Germany--Rastatt]]> Poland--Tychowo]]> 1942]]> 1945]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Ian Whapplington]]> Julie Williams]]> Maureen Clarke]]> Pending review]]> Pending revision of OH transcription]]> eng]]> Sound]]> Royal Air Force]]> Royal Air Force. Bomber Command]]> United States]]> Florida]]> Great Britain]]> England--Northamptonshire]]> Scotland--Aberdeenshire]]> France]]> France--Brest]]> Atlantic Ocean--Irish Sea]]> England--Norfolk]]> England--Suffolk]]> Atlantic Ocean--Irish Sea]]> 1941]]> 1942]]>
In accordance with the conditions stipulated by the donor, this item is available only at the University of Lincoln. ]]> Alastair Montgomery]]> IBCC Digital Archive]]> Julie Williams]]> Maureen Clarke]]> Pending review]]> DM: Good morning.
AM: Tell me just a little bit about your family background and where you lived prior to joining the Royal Air Force.
DM: Oh yeah. I lived and was brought up in Clydebank and I was a police cadet and then became a policeman for a short time. Yeah.
AM: Right. And were any of your family in the services?
DM: Well, mainly all in the police actually.
AM: Right. So having been in the police which I think was a —
DM: Reserved Occupation.
AM: Exactly. Why did you choose to join the Royal Air Force?
DM: Because that was the only one I could go to actually. It was the only place I could go actually because it was a Reserved Occupation.
AM: Right. And just tell me a little bit about your training as a, as a pilot and some of the more memorable aspects of it.
DM: How do you mean? I’m not quite clear.
AM: Well, first of all when you actually joined up where did you go and how was the cycle of training?
DM: Oh yeah. I went to ACRC which was a aircrew recruiting place in Lords. In Lords in London. Yeah.
AM: And where, where did you commence your flying training?
DM: Ah yeah. Well, I did about nine hours in Fairoaks and then the rest was done in Florida.
AM: Right. And what aeroplane was that on?
DM: Pardon?
AM: Which aeroplane was that on?
DM: Harvard.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So tell me a wee bit about the Harvard then.
DM: It was very nice to fly actually. Yeah. What was it? A single engine of course and had retractable gear.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And from the Harvard where did you go?
DM: From a Harvard then I eventually went on to Blenheims.
AM: And where was that?
DM: At a place called Snetterton.
AM: Right. Right. You’d better tell us where Snetterton is.
DM: It’s in the Midlands.
AM: Right. Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So that was your first experience of multi engine aircraft.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Yeah. So tell me a little bit about flying that.
DM: How do you mean?
AM: What was it like to fly?
DM: Well, it was pretty good actually. Yeah. A little on the heavy side but otherwise ok.
AM: And what age were you at that point?
DM: Twenty one.
AM: Right. Gosh.
DM: Pardon?
AM: And was that where you, you met up with your crew or —
DM: Oh no. No. It was much later.
AM: Right. So tell me about the, a little bit about the crewing up process.
DM: Ah yeah. That’s right. I was left without anyone. I was a bit worried they were going to give me someone and then when I was having a, having breakfast I saw a chap came in with N here you see. And that was Nigel and I immediately, I didn’t tell him, I put him on my crew and he was very very good indeed actually.
AM: Right.
DM: First class.
AM: So he was the first person you knew you crewed up with.
DM: Yeah.
AM: The navigator.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: And did you stay with him throughout your wartime?
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right. And what about the rest of the crew? It doesn’t matter about names but just how you came together.
DM: I’m not quite sure now.
Other: Phil Tetlow. That’s one dad.
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Other: Radio officer.
DM: That’s right.
Other: Hold on dad. I’ll get you a photograph and that will give you a —
DM: I’m not quite sure.
Other: Here we are dad.
AM: We’ll just pause till we get them.
[recording paused]
AM: Just how you teamed up as a, as a crew and what that experience was like and —
DM: Oh yeah. I was a bit worried at first actually I’d be given sort of left overs but then I saw Nigel with this N here and without telling him I got him put in my crew and he was absolutely first class. Probably wouldn’t have got through without him actually. Yeah.
AM: Yeah. Well, that’s a great thing to say about somebody.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: And once you were crewed up.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Apart from odd occasions did you fly with the same crew?
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
AM: For the rest of the war.
DM: Yeah. That was a wartime, a wartime thing because you could do it in peacetime because you know there was going on holiday and all the rest of it.
AM: Sure.
DM: But because it was more, more efficient for you. For you and the rest of the crew you all flew together throughout the war. Yeah.
AM: Right. So you crewed up at the OTU. Is that correct?
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: And then you went to 9 Squadron.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And where was that?
DM: At Bardney.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Tell me a wee bit about what it was like arriving on your very first squadron as a young twenty year old.
DM: Yeah. I was a bit, I was a bit overwhelmed but they were very sort of reasonable to me and took me in very quickly and I felt very much at home and, yeah.
AM: And what rank were you then?
DM: Flying officer.
AM: Right.
DM: F4.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So were all the crew officers or were you the only officer?
DM: To begin with I was the only officer but then later on Nigel got his commission and then I think Pete [Rammell] got his as well.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So how many sorties did you fly on the squadron before you went operational? How many training sorties did you do?
DM: About three or four.
AM: Right. And what did they consist of?
DM: Usually flying, flying across Land’s End and then across to the, to the French coast and back again.
AM: Right. And was this daytime or at night?
DM: Daytime.
AM: Right. And how did you feel in these early sorties?
DM: I was very pleased actually. I’d got what I wanted to do.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. And had the crew readily accepted you as their boss? They knew that from the beginning.
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. Tell me a bit about your very first operational mission if you can recall it.
DM: Let me think now. What [pause] Oh that was to Saint Cyr in France actually.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And that was a bombing sortie? That was a bombing sortie?
DM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was the German held, it had been a military academy and the Germans took it over there and it became the centre for, it became a centre there for, for the rest of Germany.
AM: Right. Right. So that was your first sortie.
DM: Yeah.
AM: I noticed from your book that you did quite a lot of daytime sorties as well.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: How did you find the difference in these sorties? Between day sorties and night sorties?
DM: Well, day sorties you had to watch out actually because there was a lot of German fighters around. You to watch out. Yeah.
AM: And obviously, I say obviously but on night sorties people comment on the, on the aspects of seeing flak.
DM: Yeah.
AM: What was it like the first time you went over Germany and saw flak?
DM: One of the things I did see was a Lancaster, all engines afire about two or three miles away. Going straight down like that.
AM: Oh my goodness.
DM: That made you, made me sharpen up a bit.
AM: And what did the rest of your crew say when you —
DM: They didn’t say anything.
AM: They didn’t say anything. Right. And, and did you see that regularly or —
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right. Today a lot of people talk about losses being due to the upward firing —
DM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AM: The Schräge musik.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Did you know about that then?
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah. Yeah, that why I used to do a banking search and do that about every two minutes to make sure they hadn’t snuck underneath me.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. So that was purely to prevent fighters coming underneath you or to make sure you could find them.
DM: Make sure they weren’t underneath us. Sneaking underneath you.
AM: Right. So, I know that the escape manoeuvre was called a corkscrew.
DM: Oh yeah.
AM: Did you ever have to do that in anger?
DM: All the time.
AM: Right. So tell me a little bit about it.
DM: Yeah. We were flying along there and the rear gunner said, ‘Corkscrew. Port.’ You see. And you’d go down like that. Pick up a lot of speed and down, a bit more speed and then you were up to about three or four hundred knots and came up like that. Then on again.
AM: Right.
Other: Very impressive looking, isn’t it?
AM: Well, in your case it clearly worked every time.
Other: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
AM: But it must have been daunting for the rest of the crew.
DM: Well, I think they were quite happy we were doing it actually.
AM: Yeah. And what about the tail gunner for him probably had the best view of all of this?
DM: Yeah. Well, he just used to give us a lot of instructions.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. So, after a night sortie over Germany —
DM: Yeah.
AM: When you came back to Bardney just tell me sort of what happened after you landed.
DM: Well, if you’d been across there you were entitled to one egg.
AM: Right.
DM: Which was a big deal in those days actually. Yeah. Now, let me think. Say again now.
AM: When you landed —
DM: Yeah.
AM: Presumably you got a debrief of some kind.
DM: Yeah. Yeah, there was a WAAF actually used to debrief us there and [pause] yeah.
AM: And what, can you remember what sort of things she would ask about the targets or —
DM: I’m not sure now. I’m not sure about that.
AM: That’s alright.
DM: Yeah.
AM: We can come back to it. When in the debrief were you aware, presumably you were aware of the losses to other crews. How did that affect you and your own crew when people, other crews on 9 Squadron didn’t come back?
DM: Well, it was just one feeling actually. We were bloody glad it was, it was them and not us.
AM: Right. Did you share accommodation with other crews?
DM: Well, officers, when I became an officer after a while they made all the pilots of four engine aircraft became, became officers.
AM: Right.
DM: And in fact, the rank I was a pilot officer then.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. So did, did you share a hut as a crew or did you share with other crews?
DM: With other, eventually with other officers.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. So what was the, the atmosphere like in the officer’s mess at Bardney?
DM: From what point of view?
AM: Well, social really.
DM: It was very very good indeed you know. Knocking back the pints.
AM: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And did you leave the base a lot to go out to Lincoln or local pubs?
DM: When we could actually. There was always a question of transport.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. So you didn’t have a car then?
DM: Not many people had a car. No.
AM: Yeah. Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So tell me something about the, the frequency of sorties. The sort of gap between one mission and then the next mission.
DM: Well, sometimes on one occasion they did four on a trot.
AM: Right. Four nights on the trot.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. And how did that feel?
DM: Got a bit tiring actually.
AM: I bet it was. Now, you’ve played a key part in the, in the raids on the Tirpitz.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Tell me a little about each of them if you could including your trip to Russia.
DM: Oh yeah. Let me think now. That’s right. We flew towards, towards Archangel there and we were running short of fuel and I was just about to put it down and I saw, saw the other Lancaster around so very quickly ran and landed and got to the end and lined up with the rest of them.
AM: Right. And was that on a proper airfield?
DM: It was, no it was a grass island on [unclear]
AM: Right.
Other: Tell the story about the guy with the gun dad.
DM: The what?
Other: The story about the guy with the —
[recording paused]
DM: As soon as we landed opened the door and the, a chap in charge said, ‘Don’t move because they have orders to shoot you if you move.’ So —
AM: Good grief.
DM: They were a bit keen that way.
AM: So how long did that stand off last for?
DM: How do you mean?
AM: Well, how, how long were you faced up with this chap with the gun?
DM: Oh. Just a couple of minutes.
AM: Right. Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So you flew a mission from Archangel.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Did that work or what happened?
DM: No. It didn’t actually. It was a bit of a disaster because the Germans got the smoke going.
AM: Right. This is smoke over the Tirpitz.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. So what did they aircraft actually do?
DM: Well, if you had any sense you dropped your bomb there because you’d be running short of fuel but some, some people brought them back and they were desperately short of fuel you know. Obviously.
AM: And did you go back to Archangel?
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So and how did the Russians react to that?
DM: They thought we were a bunch of clots basically.
AM: Right. So, so did you fly a second mission from Archangel?
DM: Well, just think about that now.
AM: Just tell me that. So after you, you left Archangel —
DM: Yeah.
AM: And came back to the UK.
DM: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I also carried a crash crew with me actually.
AM: Right. So what was that for?
DM: Sorry?
AM: So why did you carry that crash crew?
DM: Well, they had to get back. Back to the UK so —
AM: Oh, I see. So you were just a transport for them.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So that was the first sortie against the Tirpitz.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Tell me about the next one.
DM: You’ll have to prompt me on that now.
AM: Ok. Don, I think the second attack on the Tirpitz was, and the third were flown from Lossiemouth in Scotland. Can you tell me a little about, a little bit about both of these sorties?
DM: Yeah. Well, we obviously flew up from, from Bardney and we stopped in Lossiemouth. You’ll have to prompt me on that.
AM: That’s alright. So you went to Lossiemouth. And did you, were the bombs loaded at Lossiemouth for the trip to, to the fjords?
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right. And was this a day raid or a night raid?
DM: It was a day raid.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Roughly how many aeroplanes, aircraft were on this second raid?
DM: Thirty.
AM: Right. Gosh. Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And was it successful or not?
Other: Was it successful, dad?
DM: Was it? Well yeah. Was it or not? I’m not sure.
AM: Don, on the third raid against the Tirpitz what sort of weapon was the Lancaster carrying?
DM: Carrying a six tonne, a six tonne Tallboy. Yeah.
AM: Right. So one Tallboy.
DM: Oh yeah. One.
AM: Right.
DM: Six tonnes.
AM: Right.
DM: That’s enough.
AM: A huge weapon.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Were all the aircraft equipped with Tallboy?
DM: In the end yes. So —
AM: Right. Right. And how did you release? Singly or as a group?
DM: Singly.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And where were you in the stream attacking the Tirpitz?
DM: I was at the end there because I was wind finding. That’s right. I remember that now.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So, tell me the purpose of wind finding.
DM: Yeah. The purpose of wind finding was to have an accurate wind for, for dropping your bomb because if you hadn’t got it right actually it would be off target.
AM: Right. So how did how did you go about that?
DM: Ok. I used to fly into wind and then go down for about, it was a racetrack. Down for about two minutes then back, drift and back over again. And the distance between we had flown and that was that was a wind then.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: So you passed that wind to the other crews.
DM: Yeah. And whoever was in charge assessed it. I mean he might not think yours was the best so he’d decide which was the correct one or the best one.
AM: Right. So, so this left you then at the back of the stream.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right. So, when you released your Tallboy what happened then?
DM: Oh, you came up about seven hundred feet.
AM: Right. Right. And did you know then what the result of the attack? Could you see anything?
DM: Not really.
AM: No.
DM: No.
AM: So when did you find out the raid had been a, a success?
On the way home actually. On the BBC news.
AM: Right.
DM: Still flying home.
AM: Right. That must have been amazing.
DM: It was.
AM: Yeah.
DM: It was quite something.
AM: Yeah. I’ll just switch if off.
[recording paused]
AM: Don, what sort of time of day was the release over the target at the fjord against the Tirpitz?
DM: About 1 o’clock.
AM: Right. And what about enemy fighters? Were there any there?
DM: There should have been but as I said we had an anti-Nazi sympathiser who sent them to the wrong place.
AM: Gosh.
DM: Yeah. A bit of luck for us actually.
AM: Yeah. I mean what do you think? Can you remember what kind of fighters that were based there?
DM: Yeah. Focke Wulf 190.
AM: Which are fairly powerful machines.
DM: Indeed. Yeah.
AM: Yeah. And what sort of, what sort of effect would that have had against a daytime Lancaster?
DM: We probably would lost half of them. Fifty percent losses.
AM: Right. Right. So when you heard the news on the BBC that the Tirpitz was no more.
DM: Yeah.
AM: What, what did you feel like?
DM: I felt very glad we wouldn’t have to go back again.
AM: I’ll bet you were.
DM: Yeah.
AM: I’ll switch that off.
[recording paused]
AM: Don, while you were at Bardney did you get any opportunity to go back to Scotland to visit your family?
DM: I think I did on one occasion. Then later on actually and we landed at Lossiemouth.
AM: Oh right. You flew up.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And then did you get a train or —
DM: I think there was transport laid on there.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And what was it like to be back home now as, you know an experienced pilot? You probably won’t like me saying this but something of a hero in the community. What was it like to be home?
DM: Well, I wasn’t regarded as a hero because everybody else was doing their own thing as well you know.
AM: Right. Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And after you visited your folks you went back by the same way to Bardney.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right. Now, towards the end of the campaign I believe you flew a sortie to Berchtesgaden.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Can you tell me just a wee bit about that?
DM: Let me think about that now.
AM: I’ll switch this off.
[recording paused]
AM: Don, I believe that after the end of the war you took some of the ground crew on flights.
DM: Yes. That’s right. I said that.
AM: Over Germany.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: What was, what was that like for you? But more importantly what was it like for them?
DM: I think they were a bit, a bit aghast at the damage that had been done you know.
AM: Right. And what sort of places did you take them to? Which cities?
DM: Cologne, because that was nearer there and then Stuttgart. Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right. And because you flew past Stuttgart when you went to Berchtesgaden by the Alps.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Now that was a long long sortie.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Yeah. Was that the last operational sortie you flew or —
DM: I’m not sure.
AM: No.
DM: No.
AM: No, so when the, when the war actually finished what was the feeling like at Bardney?
DM: Let me just think now. Well, I think over you know.
AM: Yeah.
DM: Yeah. And we could go, could go on some jollies there and —
AM: Yeah.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And had you made up your own mind what you wanted to do with your life at that point?
DM: Yeah. I wanted to go into civil flying.
AM: Right.
DM: The whole point of it actually. I was very keen.
AM: Right.
DM: To go flying solely.
AM: Right. And how did you go about that? Could you do training with the RAF or did you have to leave the RAF at that point?
DM: Let me think now. Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: They failed me. So —
AM: What did they fail you on? I find that hard to believe.
DM: Well, the old CO took a scunner to me actually.
AM: Really. And what aeroplane was that on?
DM: That was on a York.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Which was a bit like a Lancaster.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right. Right so after this chap had the cheek to fail you what happened then?
DM: Oh yes. Yes. I remember now. I was walking along [unclear] Street which was in the middle of London and I saw an advert said, four engine, “Four engine pilots wanted.” So I went straight in, said, ‘I’m a four engine pilot.’ The next thing I was flying down to Rio.
AM: Brilliant. Brilliant. That was the start of your civil flying career.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And how long did you fly for from that point on? How many years do you think you flew?
DM: Thirty five.
AM: Right. And what was the last aeroplane you flew?
DM: A 747.
AM: So the Lancaster to the 747.
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Quite remarkable.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Now, coming back to the war.
DM: Yeah.
AM: You, a lot of the sorties might merge together. What was your, you’re looking back now you know are there any things that really stand out either about sorties or about people that will remain with you?
DM: Let me just think. Flying, flying to Berchtesgaden. Yeah. We weren’t sure what was going to happen now. You know there was a lot of but but there wasn’t, there was anybody there waiting for us because I told you they had this anti-Nazi chap.
AM: Right.
DM: Yeah. Are you alright there?
Other: [unclear] the other stories.
AM: It doesn’t matter at all. No. Is there anything else that you would like to add in that I haven’t asked you that you’d like to say about your experience?
DM: No. Not really. I think I’ve covered it all. Yes.
AM: I’ve really enjoyed it. It’s fantastic. Amazing. Can I have a look at your picture?
DM: Yes. Sure.
Other: I went down to Phil Tetlow’s funeral I think it was, wasn’t it?
DM: Yeah.
Other: About two years ago and I presented his then wife with a photo, a framed photo of this and see which one he is.
AM: I think that’s him there. Is that right?
Other: Yes. Yes. Yes. He was in the RAF much longer than dad actually. I think, I think he —
DM: He went into Control. Yeah.
Other: Right. So he made it his, it was his —
DM: What dear?
Other: It was his career.
DM: Yeah.
AM: He went into air traffic control did he?
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
AM: Right.
DM: This fell out of your —
AM: Oh right. Bookmark.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Right.
Other: It’s hard to believe that these are all twenty something.
AM: I think that’s what’s —
DM: I mean that’s that alone I find incredible because I look at a twenty, twenty one year old today and I’m thinking very frightening. Put them in the same situation I don’t know but you know I’m very proud of them all.
AM: Yes. I mean that is the question. You just don’t know how today’s youngsters would react.
DM: Oh, I think they’d do very well.
AM: Yeah. I suspect so too.
DM: Yeah.
AM: If push came to the shove.
Other: Yeah. Exactly.
AM: I mean because the difference when I joined the Air Force which was in the late 60s it had become a peace time Air Force, you know.
DM: Right.
AM: There was still quite a lot of wartime people around. Not many pilots interestingly. Quite a lot of engineers and navigators.
DM: Navigators. Right.
AM: And the only people you saw with medals of course were wartime —
DM: Yeah.
AM: Aircrew.
DM: Yeah.
AM: And I mean it used to be a joke that the average number of medals was zero in my peer group until much later.
Other: Until the Falklands really.
AM: Until the Falklands.
Other: Yeah.
AM: And then of course since I mean some of the stories coming out of —
Other: Iraq and —
AM: Iraq and Afghanistan.
DM: Afghanistan.
AM: Is amazing.
DM: Yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah.
AM: Right. Now, can I, do you mind if I take a photograph of you there?
DM: Ok.
AM: To go with the record.
DM: I’ll probably crack the lens but never mind.
AM: [laughs] Right.
DM: Ok.
[pause]
AM: And get one of you together as well. Right.
[pause]
AM: Very good.
AM: Ok.
That’s better. One more. I’ll get one of Alison in a minute.
AM: I’ve got a form that I need to sign.
Other: Alright. No worries. It’s ok.
AM: Right. You must be immensely proud of your father.
Other: Oh I am.
AM: Yeah.
Other: Absolutely.
AM: Yeah.
Other: Absolutely. I mean like I’ve seen where he’s been and dad won’t mind me saying this but where he’s been interviewed in years gone by where the memories are fresher.
AM: Right.
Other: And I think you know as time goes on.
AM: Remarkable.
Other: Yeah. I think. Yes.
AM: Yeah. Right.
Other: I don’t think I could remember anything at ninety five.
AM: Actually, I actually found a transcript, Don.
DM: Yeah.
AM: Of an interview you did more than ten years ago.
Other: Oh really.
DM: Oh yeah.
AM: With a bloke from a magazine.
DM: Oh yeah. Yeah.
AM: About your book.
DM: Oh.
Other: Oh.
AM: Quite interesting.
DM: Yeah.
AM: I found it online.
Other: Oh, did you really?
AM: I just typed in Don MacIntosh DFC and up it came.
Other: Really.
DM: Good Lord.
Other: Interesting.
AM: Amazing, isn’t it?
Other: Yeah. Oh a lot of times —
AM: So I read through it. The same guy —
Other: Because I think you also did something for BBC. I remember when we came for your eightieth.
AM: Right.
Other: Actually dad had a interview I think with BBC. I don’t know if you remember actually so.
[background chat about photos]
Other: So, how do you think you did dad?
DM: What?
Other: How did you think you did?
DM: You tell me.
Other: No. Do you feel you did alright? I mean I know there were a few pauses but I think like he said you know seventy years on.
DM: Yeah.
Other: I’m glad that you did your book when you did it. I don’t think you could have written your book now.
DM: Oh no. Absolutely not.
Other: No, I’m just saying you would have been too tired eh.
DM: I wouldn’t have the energy anyway.
Other: Energy. So, I think when you started it it’s been out fifteen years so that would have been ‘80 when it was published and then you worked on it for fifteen years so so it was you were at the end of your sixties early seventies. Right dear?
DM: Yeah. Yeah.
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