Interview with Kenneth Shelton Green

Interview with Kenneth Shelton Green

Kenneth Green was born on the 17 January 1922 at Pleasley, near Mansfield and worked with the Carlton Auxillary Fire Service, before joining the Royal Air Force at the age of 20. Being unable to fly due to eye problems, he trained as an engineer and worked on a variety of engines, including the Bristol Hercules, Packard Merlin and the Rolls Royce Merlin engines. He tells of his time on base, the explosion that took the life of his friend, and the work he completed on the Avro Lancasters. He also worked on the Mark 1, 2 and 3’s. Kenneth joined 61 Squadron and served at RAF Skellingthorpe and RAF Bottesford, before working with the Royal Navy on single engine aircraft.

2015-07-13

00:41:21 audio recording

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AGreenKS150713

MC: This interview is being conducted for, on behalf of the International Bomber Command Centre. The interviewer is Mike Connock, the interviewee is Kenneth Shelton Green and the interview is taking place at Skellingthorpe Community Centre on the 13th of July 2015.
KG: As I say -
MC: Okay, Kenneth, what we’ll do is, I’ll just ask you to tell me a bit about when and where you were born.
KG: Yes.
MC: And your early days, school and the, the area you lived in.
KG: Yes, right. I was born at Pleasley near Mansfield, on the 17th of January 1922, I lived variously, as a small person with my parents and partially with my grandparents, at a place called Pleasley, and it doesn’t matter what the name of the street is, it was Burghley House, B-U-R-G-H-L-E-Y House, Pleasley, near Mansfield, that’s where my parents lived and my [pause] lived with my mother’s parents when they were first married and where I was born. That’s [unclear], then moved to a small agricultural setup, called Dales Torth D-A-L-E-S T-O-R-T-H, two separate words, Danish background origin, and then we moved to a place called Skegby, S-K-E-G-B-Y, where I started school as a five year old [pause]. We later moved to Nottingham where my father took up a post with the Nottinghamshire County Council in 1920, [pause] something, six, eight, thereabouts.
MC: When were, when were you born?
KG: Oh, I was born 17th January 1922.
MC: ’22.
KG: Err, I ‘ve gotten down out as 17, [unclear] to move into Nottingham, where we had a house whilst a new house was built for my parents where we occupied, which we entered into occupation in 1930 I think, at Mapperley, Gedling, Nottingham, Westdale Lane, that’s it, [pause]. I was then transferred to a school at Mapperley, Nottingham and was there until I, from there obtained a scholarship at Nottingham High school where I went in 1933, I think, yeah, [pause]. I had a scholarship for the same year also to Henry Mellish modern school, which I didn’t take up because I went to the high school [pause] we lived at Nottingham, well Gedling it was called the address, until I was [pause] I went into business and then into the RAF, and then the Navy, and then came out.
MC: How old were you when you left school?
KG: I left school at the age of 18, 17, 17.
MC: So, did you have any employment from then?
KG: Yes, I worked for a, an insurance company at the office in Nottingham until, I went in the Air Force and I came out of the Navy, out of the Air Force.
MC: Before you joined the Air Force, did you do anything else?
KG: I was in, oh yes, I was in the, air, auxiliary fire service, the local Carlton AFS where I was part of the team, and ultimately was an engineer with the fire engines and so forth, that’s where I first drove a Rolls Royce, which had a fire pump trailer behind it. That would be 1930, correction, 1940 – 1,2 time.
MC: So, what age were you when you joined the Air Force?
KG: I went into the Air Force, er, in 1942, at the age of - [pause]
MC: Yes, you would be about 19, 20 if you were born in ’22.
KG: I wouldn’t, yes, I get, I’m sorry about this.
MC: That’s okay.
KG: I’m so, [pause] 1939 was the beginning of the war, 1940, ‘41, ah ‘42 [emphasis], I joined the Air Force, that’s it.
MC: What made you choose the Air Force?
KG: Because I wanted to fly. I became an engineer in the Air Force.
MC: So, what was the reaction when you asked to fly, what was the action, reaction, from the Air Force when you asked to fly, said you wanted to fly?
KG: Well, I wanted to fly but unknown to me, I had astigmatism, an eye condition which prevented me being accepted for aircrew, yes.
MC: So -
KG: So, I joined the Air Force and then went to my first technical school in South Wales.
MC: Did you do any basic training?
KG: Oh, oh yes, I did my paddy, Padgate, Blackpool, square bashing, then I went into the technical college, technical, section of the Air Force in South Wales, [pause] name
MC: St Athan?
KG: St Athan.

MC: RAF St Athan’s.
KG: Yes, I went and did my first technical course there, and became I, I, emerged head of course as a flight mechanic and joined, 61 Squadron RAF, Bomber Command, 5 Group, Lancasters, as an erk, SAC, as LAC, give or take, yes LAC, 1942, yes that’s it, ’42. I stayed with squadron, until, moved to, oh, oh, wait a moment, I didn’t, I went off on a conversion course to, number 1 school of technical training, Halton, RAF, in 1943.
MC: That was conversion too?
KG: I was, I was, then became a fitter to E, engines, LAC, I joined the servicing flight of 61 Squadron, which was a new type of arrangement for dealing with [pause] periodic inspections, a separate team
MC: [unclear]
KG: A separate team, a separate team, we were an upstage from the, from the squadron, but we were still on the squadron, but we were the servicing flight.
MC: Where was that, that was at?
KG: That was at RAF Syerston, first of all, 61 Squadron.
MC: Not far from here.
KG: The squadron then moved to Skellingthorpe.
MC: So, what was the -
KG: And then from Skellingthorpe to [pause] bom, bom, bom, [pause] Coningsby, then back to Skellingthorpe, where they have been doing some runway work in the meantime, still on 61 Squadron [pause] I was then posted to a new par unit, production unit, at RAF Bottesford.
MC: Can I go back to Syerston, when you -
KG: Yes.
MC: First went back to Syerston, what, you worked, what mark of Lancaster did you work on?
KG: I worked on both Mk 2’s and Mk 1’s and Mk 3’s, the Mk 2’s then left the squadron, down to, went down to Cambridge where they shifted the whole lot, but we were the, they were a rare beast there were very few Mk 2’s made, they were, [pause] Bristol Hercules engines in a Lancaster, so I am one of the relatively small number of people who worked on those.
MC: That was all part of your training?
KG: Well no, it was part of service, I was at on the squadron with them.
MC: Yes, but I mean you, your training on the engines.
KG: Oh well, you did, you did all engines.
MC: Oh, you did?
KG: And expected, I, I took a, a works course at Rolls Royce, Derby on Rolls Royce engines in 1943 [pause], yes
MC: So, then you went on to Skellingthorpe from Syerston?
KG: But, but well I, no, whilst I was at Skellingthorpe, I went off to Derby and did a course then came back, then, I left Skellingthorpe to this, to Bottesford.
MC: Can I ask you what’s, what were your reactions to the accommodation and stuff at Skellingthorpe, what was it like?
KG: At Skellingthorpe you were, you were, a Nissen hut in a field [pause] oh, over the hedge and so forth, away from the main er, sites at Skellingthorpe. We had a proper civilised brick establishment at Syerston of course, [laugh] it was not, it was not highly regarded the basic sort of Nissen huts that we ended up with at Skellingthorpe [laugh] but anyway, I use, I used not to go preferably to, well the guard room was too far away, I lived over fields so it was nearer to go over the next field over across the farm and down to the station at Hykeham, where it was very convenient to catch a train to Nottingham where I lived and I, it saved time and other things. Not to go as far as Nottingham but to get off at Carlton, which is the station before Nottingham so you didn’t meet people like SP’s who wanted to know how, why, when and where.
MC: I’d like to cover some of the experiences at Skellingthorpe if I can, you know.
KG: Yeah.
MC: Mishaps or whatever.
KG: Well, life was what it was, one worked hard, I was proud to be there, we, we went off to do all sorts of things occasionally. I went down to, I went down to [unclear], Silverstone [emphasis] I went down to Peterborough, servicing was to pick up a Lancaster, it had landed down there after ops and it wasn’t working properly but in actual fact, it was that the pilot was friendly with a WAAF in the stores there [laughs]. When he was doing his OTU training [laughs], however, Chiefy and I went down by Hillman Minx sort of garry, and, sorted the aeroplane out which was not in dire straits, there were a few sparks out of the exhaust pipe that was it, that was the argument. Yes.
MC: So, you, you say you went down to Peterborough and it was -
KG: Well, yeah, I went to Peterborough to swap an engine on Mickey the Moocher as it was at later, 61 Squadron’s M, M-Mike, and the flight mechanic who was on the flights with it, he painted the first Mickey the Moocher and the Mickey, and then the trolley and the bomb and all the rest of it, yeah and I spoke to him after the war, he lived in South Wales then.
MC: So, you got quite friendly with the crew of Mickey the Moocher then?
KG: Oh, oh we went down to her because the third crew on Mickey the Moocher, yes, I think they were the third crew, they’d had an engine blow, starboard outer, blew up on an op and they landed at Peterborough, so a colleague of mine from the squadron went down with an engine and swapped it and managed to get it all put together and back again the next day.
MC: How long would it take you to change an engine?
KG: Well, it, [laughs] not long because we wanted to catch the train from Nottingham [laughs], at five thirty [laughs] from Hykeham, so we flew back by Lancaster [laughs] yeah, up to the Nissen hut in the field and then out of the back door to the Hykeham station. [laughs]
MC: I gather you experienced quite a bit of an explosion at Skellingthorpe?
KG: Oh, Skellingthorpe, yes in the course of ordinary work, we did our periodic, periodic inspections which were a stage up from what, what the squadron could do and I, I was stuck on a B flight aircraft, I can’t remember which one it was now, erm, with another chap. I’d finished my port outer, I’d done no snags and engine ready, and it was four o’clock thereabouts and my colleague John, was in the record for the getting killed, he was doing the port inner.
MC: Who with?
KG: He said, ‘Look, I’ll do the run up with Chiefy, you, you scarper,’ he knew where I was going, so off I went with my bike, he stayed and shortly after I left, before I’d got, be, beyond sort of two hundred yards from the back over the fence on my bike going down to the station, there was a hell of a bang, and something had gone up. I didn’t know what it was, but of course couldn’t do anything about it, proceeded on my way, get back at midnight at Hykeham and people said, ‘Oh we’ve been sweeping the deck looking for your fingernails,’ and so forth and it was my friend who’d kindly stayed to do the run up and this whole tractor and trailer, train of thousand pound, yellows, yankee, DAs, delayed actions for daylight were tur, turning round to bomb up and servicing aircraft when you are doing bombing up was not [emphasis] a good thing to do. Anyway, my friend was blown, blown apart because the back spring on the trailer, row of trailers which was being driven by a chap, I think he was an electrician, anyway he’d broken his collar bone and he was fed up with doing nothing and he accepted the job of driving the tractor for armourers with a whole string of bombs and he was with his arm in, in plaster, he was driving one handed and the, the back spring on the back trailer which you can, you know was far off and you couldn’t see it and it broke and the back bomb [three loud taps] kept hitting the ground and it pulled the safety pin out and so forth, and as he got to the aircraft where my friend was still doing his port inner engine, it went bang and the lot went from here to there and back again, so he’s, he was killed and is in the killed list that would be I think, October, September, October ’40, ’44.
MC: Squadron [unclear]
KG: Hmm.
MC: Any other, any other experiences -
KG: It was, it was a B Flight aircraft.
MC: Any other issues like that?
KG: Well, no, I mean, whilst going, whilst, for, for a time we were going all the way down at Bottesford, a mate and I we used to go by train, from, from Carlton to Newark, in the mornings, and cycle, down the A1 to Bottesford, over the, over the hedge and so forth, because we had got a permanent living out chit, both of us, and both of us came from Nottingham, and we cycled, used to cycle down. I can remember this Sunday morning, winter, it would be ‘44, seeing these, these, contrails going vertically up from the ground down to the south east, and they were the German V-2’s being fired from Holland into England, we didn’t know at the time but that’s exactly what it was, that was an interesting, you know when, when you it was sort of 5am, 6am, that sort of thing but in the early light of dawn, to see these things going up and not knowing what they were.
MC: So, when did you leave 61 Squadron?
KG: Came then, on, and er, I left 61 to go down to Bottesford, for doing, doing these, we used to make, make up brand new engines for the works.
MC: Oh, engine assembly.
KG: Into power plants, we were, we were instead of a factory somewhere doing it, we were RAF people doing it, we could do it alright, we knew what we were about, we were all qualified people and yes, it, it was interesting.
MC: Had you got any promotions from then?
KG: No, no, it was no such thing then, out of the blue, we were slung in the, slung in the Navy.
MC: So, there’s no [unclear]
KG: Which was not, [emphasis] not to our liking.
MC: So, you finished up in the [unclear]
KG: So, I went off back to Padgate, Warrington, to go into the Navy, from the Air Force and there we were issued with all our naval gear. I was dressed as a taxi driver, because I was a fitter, other people were dressed as sailors, of course that suited them with the young ladies around, that suited them very much for a time, but they soon got fed up with it, all the gear, and we were not best pleased, we were definitely dis-chuffed, and the excuse, and they put us under armed guard, we’d got barbed wire, and so forth, and that, that, really did knock people who were, you know, we didn’t like that and the politicians from London running around like scared rabbits, didn’t know what, what they were doing and they didn’t [laughs] but then they claimed they, they were propaganda game was who. The Army guard was because we had got cheap cigarettes [laughs] anyways, it, it was a, talk about a hair’s breadth from really blowing up out there and really, we were dis-chuffed, we were very fed up indeed [laughs] Yes, that was a, a not a very unhappy experience, then in the Navy. I was sent off to a squadron in Northern Ireland, with a, oh, [laughs] a, a low grade of training aircraft and we, one didn’t have, and I had very little regard for them and then -
MC: What make? Can you remember what aircraft it was?
KG: [Pause] I could have done when I walked in [laughs], what was it?
MC: [unclear]
KG: It was a single engined, target towing aircraft, and they used to tow a glider, tin, little tin gliders, about fifteen-foot span, for, to be shot at by, RAF fighters in training, or Navy fighters in training. Then we left, they were building a ship at Belfast, which was, instead, they said it was going to be our ship, for going out to Russia or Timbukthree, oh yes, before, by then, we had got Tiger force, who were going to have Lancasters to Siberia, would bomb, outbound, bomb Japan, land in the islands, re-bomb and back into Russia. Well we were, we were quite, we could put up with that, we were, we thought that was quite interesting, and that’s where we were going to go you see, in the RAF, and then they bunged us in the Navy [laughs], all part of the complicated story.
MC: What about flying yourself when you was, when you was -
KG: I, I -
MC: When you was doing the servicing?
KG: Right.
MC: Did you do any test flights?
KG: In flying, I once went to the trouble, first time, a new boy, to get a parachute from stores, to go on a test flight, after doing an ordinary inspection, that’s an L plate, number one, new boy. By the time I got back, they were nearly fed up with waiting for me ‘cos I’d taken so long, to cycle across the airfield, find the stores, argue the toss with the store masters. Anyway, got back, and that’s the only time I ever got a parachute [laughs] and flew, from that time onwards, if I, if I mended it, I’ll fly it, I don’t want to know about parachutes [laughs], never again did I wear a parachute, [laughs] flying in the Air Force, that’s, that’s true [laughs]
MC: So, what was your role on the test flight, what did you do?
KG: Well I, sat on the, I looked around, sat in, lay on the rush bed or [laughs] what have you, err, you just hung around, just another, just another jolly [laughs]. I remember, from, Skellingthorpe, a young chap was a pilot, we’d done all the inspections and I, I as usual, I would always grab a flight if I could, after we’d done the inspection, and we took off, I can remember and I was standing in the astrodome, which was near the mid-upper, and we were doing fighter affiliation as a, argy bargy with a Spitfire or Hurricane, or something and I remember looking up in the astrodome, and there was Newark [laughs] church spire looking up at me [laughs], I thought how come that, I’m upside down in a Lancaster [laughs] looking down [laughs] at the church tower [laughs]. Interesting experience.
MC: How did that happen?
KG: Well, it was, we were [laughs] doing aerobatics in a Lancaster to avoid the fighter, and, and they went on ops that night, this would be late afternoon, they went on ops, that night and got the chop, never came back [laughs] probably the wings fell off [laughs] overstrained or something. Oh dear.
MC: What about socialising within the Air Force when you was off duty and -
KG: Well, we, we never had much socialising, curiously enough, as least I, I would nip off home if I could, you see, it was, that was the easiest way, and I could use my time personally, privately, rather better than, and RAF events, we had all the usual, booze up sort of parties and so on, but I, I didn’t drink then, [laughs] when you are younger you don’t, anyway, I used to go off home when I could, and that was a case of bike, Skellingthorpe, took it in and away.
MC: So, you had experience of the Packard Merlin?
KG: Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, I -
MC: Was there much difference?
KG: Packard, oh, very different, but Stromberg carburettors, are, a, a, it’s a whole chapter on its own, SU’s, yes, I know, I know about SU’s, but Stromberg’s, they were a challenge, they were a very involved pieces of machinery, but jolly good, first class, Merlin 24’s, they were fitted to, yeah, anyway, I went into the Navy, after all, all that.
MC: So, what aircraft did you work on in the Navy?
KG: Oh, these useless single engine, target towing things, and, and that [unclear] in Northern Ireland, oh dear, Northern Ireland, far side, you were there -
Other: Dublin?
KG: No, far side.
Other: Far side of Ireland?
KG: Northern Ireland.
Other: Northern Ireland? Why you come to er-
MC: Ballykelly?
Other: Strabane.
KG: No, no, bigger city.
Other: A city?
KG: Yes, ah, [emphasis] the capital of Northern Ireland.
Other: Belfast?
KG: No, opposite side, opposite side, far, far side.
Other: Well, the capital is at this side.
KG: Yes, yes, I know.
Other: Belfast.
KG: It’s the next, no, it’s, big city, yon side of Ireland.
Other: Well, there’s Limavady.
KG: Northern Ireland, no, next to Limavady, and it’s quite a small place, next door to Limavady, further over, the big city, where all the, the -
Other: Cork?
KG: No, no, north.
Other: Yeah.
MC: So, you were at Derry.
KG: Yeah.
MC: With the Navy?
KG: Yes, yeah.
MC: So, what, where did you go from there?
KG: Then we were moved to, Cornwall, which was [laughs] not the brightest idea, especially as they got off the train somewhere at Crewe, then the train went, and then we found that we shouldn’t have got off, that was a genius [emphasis] naval officer, [laughs]
MC: Oh, was that still with the Navy to Cornwall?
KG: Yes, [laughs] and then I was at there, down there at Cornwall, Padstow was the end of the line, the buffers, and you couldn’t go any further, and that was then, you got off there, and you got on a garry and went to the airfield, an RAF airfield, modern built, big runways, and they shoved us in the Fleet Air Arm, shoved us in the Navy, but what was it called, north shore of Cornwall [pause] oh, dear oh dear, big airfield.
MC: St Mawgan.
KG: No, it’s next to there.
Other: You’ve got Wellington down there haven’t you?
KG: No but, we had, in fact, they, 61 Squadron put some Lancasters to fly down to Spain from there, we lost them, Mk 2’s, from 61 Squadron, you know where I mean, I, I, it just goes blank on me, you haven’t got an atlas with you? No, [pause]
MC: So, this was a holiday estate on the north shore of Cornwall, was it?
KG: Yeah, and that was where, where, near Padstow, and then you go inland and there was the airfield, but, and on the coast, going the opposite way, there was this holiday resort.
MC: So, were you there until you finished in the Air, in the Navy, or finished it during the end of the war?
KG: No, no, they, they explained that I wouldn’t easily get out, and I would say when, when do I get my ticket, oh no you can’t, with the Navy you have to wait until your replacements come, it’ll take two or three years, and so I said words to the effect of stuff that, and so I had a word with higher up, I didn’t tell my theoretical seniors, I went over their head and said there’s a way of me getting a broken educational continuity course, civilianisation, and so forth, where, where, do I get the course for that, and suddenly out of the blue, I was posted to this naval college, which was, oh dear, Salisbury part of the world, I mean, it’s just gone blank on me.
MC: When was that?
KG:’45, I, I went then and my lot who were saying you can’t go, they couldn’t do anything about it, I said, ‘You can’t argue with head office, I’ve gone,’ so off I went, and I spent [pause] five or six weeks becoming a civilian, we were all ranks, commissioned and non-commissioned, it was very, [laughs] and we went round visiting companies to see how companies ran in civvy street, and so forth, [laughs] it was a good five or six weeks, and then when I got back, they’d, they’d found a replacement for me, and I, very shortly, I went down to Plymouth, and, and got my civilian establishment, papers, and so forth, and left them.
MC: So, post war what was your reaction to the job you did and the work you did?
KG: Well, I went back into the office and then, picked up where I’d been years before.
MC: I’m thinking about your thoughts, on, you know, on the war itself.
KG: Well -
MC: And what you did and -
KG: I just worked in an office, that’s all I could -
MC: As a flight engineer.
KG: No, as a clerk.
MC: No, I meant during the war, what did you think of the work you’d done during the war?
KG: Well, I thought I was not doing a bad job, I’d, I’d done technically, I’d learnt everything I could, I was interested, [emphasis] I learnt everything I could about Rolls Royce, I considered myself a cut of, you know, I knew what I was doing, the other lot, not necessarily, and when we were building up power plants, you felt that you were part of the, it is, it’s a strange thing because to find yourself in effect being rather like Rolls Royce works and building their power plants which is what we were doing and we were turning out a lot of power plants, and they were going out on ops and being broken [laughs] et cetera.
MC: So, obviously post war then, you said you went in an office.
KG: I went back into the office, and ultimately, I became an outside rep, and then I came up to Scunthorpe and opened a new office, the first, first North Lincolnshire office, so I was, I was running the whole caboodle.
MC: I gather you ultimately achieved your ambition to fly?
KG: Well, no, that went on, I then left the insurance company and went as, I joined the chairman of my commercial group, as his PA, and, and, ultimately, became the director of all the companies at Scunthorpe, and we, and anyway, there was a lot of business things I was running new lines in business in Cornwall, and Chester et cetera et cetera, we were, we were, tied up with the steel works, I went to, I did a tour of America and so forth, with the, with the, tying up with business people as, as I say I became a director of eight or nine companies and in the meantime -
MC: So, where did the flying come in?
KG: Oh, oh, then, but I started, I stayed in [unclear] in motor sport, car rallying, and so forth, navigating and so forth, I was in things like, all the Daily Express rallies. I was driving and co-driving and navigating on those et cetera. It was a pretty busy sort of existence, I forget, one forgets about and then I, heard about flying and I thought oh I’ll try this, and started with the local Lincoln flying club, and went on and on and on ultimately flying, involved with more exotic sort of flying, and through twin engines, and night flying and airways and all sorts of things, and, in business I was using it of course as well because it was convenient sometimes to fly here, there and everywhere and I was a qualified, a qualified pilot in night airways et cetera and radio et cetera et cetera et cetera, oh well, and so it went on.
MC: Do you, do you keep in touch with many of your colleagues from the RAF days?
KG: I’m afraid there aren’t many of us left [laughs]. I’ve gone to the squadron association, and that’s, I’ve regarded that as my main link and people who I used to know they’ve passed away or gone on, I, don’t know, these links decay and fall but Skellingthorpe’s the only one really that is, is my active one.
MC: Well, thank you very much Kenneth.
KG: Not very natural, but, I’m sorry, I’m, iffing and butting, but -
MC: No.
KG: It’s, one forgets and time goes on you see, and then I retired in my sixties, but, I, I, then, I was the founder, and Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce, new Chamber of Commerce, North Lincolnshire and so forth, North Lindsey as we call it, et cetera, it, it just happens, and suddenly you realise, you’re eighty not sixty [laughs]
MC: And how old are you now?
KG: Ninety-three.
MC: But, it’s been lovely talking to you Kenneth.
KG: Anyway, I’m sorry I’m, I’ve, been -
MC: No, it’s -
KG: Wandering and I can’t remember, and anyway, you’ve helped to remind me of -
MC: Thank you.
KG: And names and -
MC: Tell me about this trip up to Yorkshire then, what, what -
KG: What was the name of the airfield inland from -
Other: From where?
KG: From Bridlington.
Other: From Bridlington, it would be Driffield.
KG: Driffield.
MC: Yes, so you finished -
KG: I had this aircraft, 61 Squadron aircraft, had landed at Driffield, been shot up, MU crowd had rebuilt it there, we went up to spent two or three days sorting it out, weather went clampers, so we were stuck with no gear, no nothing [laughs] I know we went down to, Bridlington, and, and, shall I say extracted some free money out of the penny in the slot machines, by devious means [laughs] oh dear, anyway, then the weather improved, and that’s when we separated, everybody went off but I was left with the aircraft and the incoming CO from 61 Squadron, and the signals leader, so it was a three man crew for a Lancaster [laughs]
MC: You flew as flight engineer, did you?
KG: I flew as flight engineer, I was, I was the crew [emphasis] flight engineer, everything [laughs] you don’t argue with a CO, I mean, I had probably been in as many Lancasters as him, running up and one thing and another, but it was all part of fun and games, that would be ‘44, can’t remember when, it was before, oh, before I went to Bottesford, so it would be ‘44, summer, yeah, [laughs] you forget these things, I do.