Interview with Ethel Smith
Title
Interview with Ethel Smith
Hanson, Ethel
Description
Ethel Smith (née Hanson) discusses her early life and her time in the WAAF. She joined aged 21, and remembers the camaraderie. She worked as a rigger at Number 12 Balloon Centre and was later posted to RAF Titchfield near Portsmouth. She discusses some of the tasks of the trade. She was later posted to RAF Innsworth, the WAAF recruitment centre. During her posting at RAF Hereford she met her husband who was also in the RAF. Her nickname throughout her RAF career was, Happy Hanson. She enjoyed singing and often took part in concert parties. She was demobbed in 1947.
Creator
Date
2026-05-13
Spatial Coverage
Language
Type
Format
00:38:15 Audio Recording
Publisher
Rights
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
ASmithE260513
PSmithE2601
Transcription
DK: Make sure it’s working. If I keep looking down —
ES: Yes.
DK: I’m just making sure it’s working.
ES: Right.
DK: Okay. So I’m David Kavanagh then and I work for the International Bomber Command Centre which is the Memorial to Bomber Command. With me —
RA: Robert.
DK: Robert.
RA: Ankerson.
DK: Ankerson. And I’m speaking to your good self Ethel Smith and could you just say what your date of birth is?
ES: The 2nd of April 1919.
DK: So, so you are one hundred and seven.
ES: Yes.
DK: How does it feel to be one hundred and seven?
ES: Not as good as I would like it to be of course but to think that I can still see and speak and walk about I have to be very thankful and I often say because I was in the Air Force from being twenty-one until the war was over, in 1940 I was in when it was Dunkirk and I think well because I gave them my youth they have given them back to me at the end of my life.
DK: Oh, so that is why you have reached such a great age.
ES: Yes [laughs]
DK: So you were born in nineteen [pause] what year were you born? Nineteen —
ES: 1919.
DK: 1919. So do you remember much about the 1920s?
ES: Oh yes. The thing was that everybody was very kind and one of the things I remember it was when the cinema started.
DK: Right.
ES: And I can always remember there used to be a man on a bicycle with a little short ladder attached to his bicycle and the paste, a pail of paste and a brush and this was when they first started putting big posters up about the films when they started.
DK: Did you —
ES: And I often remember. I can’t see anybody walking about nowadays with a ladder and a bicycle and paste. How things have changed haven’t they?
DK: Did you, did you enjoy going to the cinema then?
ES: Well, yes. When it was suitable. You didn’t always have very much money to spend when you were younger.
DK: So where were you born then?
ES: I was born in Doncaster.
DK: Doncaster.
ES: Yes.
DK: And what, what did your father do?
ES: My father was a boiler maker at the plant works and I’d like to think that he worked on the Flying Scotsman because the Flying Scotsman and the St Leger Racecourse are the two things that most people know about Doncaster.
DK: Yeah.
ES: But they don’t know I was born there.
DK: No [laughs] and what about your mother? What did your mother do?
ES: I can’t, my mother died quite young.
DK: Oh right.
ES: Before I was old enough to actually —
DK: Okay.
ES: Talk to her about she came from a bigger family and my father came from a family of five and two of his, one sister and one brother were school teachers and the other one had gone to France with him in the First War and met a French girl and married her.
DK: Okay.
ES: And never came back to England. So, I never met any, I never met any of my French connections but, and then of course after my father wouldn’t set foot in France anymore after the war so he never met his brother again.
DK: So your father served in France as well did he?
ES: Yes. Yeah.
DK: Did he serve on the Western Front then?
ES: Well, I don’t remember because in those days you didn’t talk.
DK: No.
ES: They didn’t talk about their experiences in the war.
DK: No.
ES: I think they were all so glad to put it all behind them.
DK: So he never spoke about it then.
ES: No. No.
DK: No.
ES: No.
DK: Did it —
ES: I know, I know he used to sing some song about, “Mademoiselles from Armentieres,” but I’m not quite sure whether that was a suitable song or not.
DK: Did you have any brothers and sisters?
ES: Yes, I had two brothers. One, one served in India and the other in the Italian campaign.
DK: Right.
ES: In the Second War.
DK: And can I just ask what was your maiden name?
ES: Hanson.
DK: Hanson. Okay.
ES: Hanson.
DK: And when you joined the RAF you were still a Hanson then.
ES: Yes. I was a Hanson.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Yes. That was, that was another thing you see. I came out of the Air Force with three lifelong friends plus a husband. So that’s not bad is it?
DK: No.
ES: But one of, one of my friends her son was this one that was going to go on the astronaut. He was due to fly the next flight and then the Challenger blew up.
DK: Oh.
ES: So it was cancelled. So I had, I had a big photograph of him in all his space outfit but I gave it to one of my grandchildren.
DK: Right. Right.
ES: But as I say, and also the thing is that you meet the one thing I think on the good side is you meet so many different people that you would never never have met in normal life.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Because they were all sorts. Initially when you joined early in 1940 if you didn’t like it you could go. You could leave but of course that changed and then, then eventually I was on this station between Portsmouth and Southampton and we had the Dunkirk people came. Some of them were on our camp. But the funny part of it was that they used to march in double quick time. But they only stayed until they were all collected up again. But otherwise it was, it wasn’t too, but we used to have a third of the camp had to stay on the camp all the time twenty-four hours and at 6 o’clock in the evening we almost, everyone, all the personnel assembled.
DK: Right.
ES: And then you relegated, you were given either a sick bay, the armoury or the guard room or perimeter work so —
DK: Do you remember much about the 1930s?
ES: 1930s.
DK: And —
ES: 1930s [unclear]
DK: Before the war.
ES: Oh, before the war. Oh yes. I was, I was in London. I was in London with an aunt, staying with an auntie and I can remember hearing Hitler talking over the radio telling all German nationals to return to Germany. That’s one of the things I remember. But —
DK: How did it make you feel? The rise of Hitler. How did that —
ES: Yes. I was going to say I don’t, I don’t think we’d actually thought about that sort of thing just then, you know. You don’t think about. You just thought well that’s strange but of course I suppose the people in authority knew what was sort of hanging around. But as I say as soon as I was twenty-one because in those days you weren’t responsible for yourself until you were twenty-one.
DK: Twenty-one.
ES: So as soon as I was twenty-one I joined the Air Force.
DK: What made you decide on the Air Force? Why the Air Force?
ES: Oh, I don’t really know.
DK: Was it uniforms?
ES: Not particularly. No. I wasn’t familiar with anyone —
DK: No.
ES: In the Air Force. I suppose, I suppose it seemed more attractive.
DK: So did you have to go to a recruitment office?
ES: Yes. In Kingsway.
DK: Kingsway. Okay.
ES: In Kingsway I think it was.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Yes and I soon went down to the station. It was at Titchfield. RAF Titchfield between Portsmouth and Southampton but —
DK: How did you take to the RAF? The discipline and the marching.
ES: Oh well, in my youth you did as you were told.
DK: Right.
ES: So it was no different really was it?
DK: No.
ES: No. Oh, I didn’t mind it at all. No. I quite, as I say you met, I met, it was so funny because they started a bit of a concert party because whenever you get a crowd of people together there was always someone that could do something. But I can always remember which makes me smile one of the women was older and she played one of these instruments, big instruments and one of the men said to her, ‘Could you possibly swing, “Nellie Dean.”’ It was the last thing in the world that that woman would have played because she was a little bit more serious.
DK: Yeah.
ES: But you see you could leave then but then of course they had to be you couldn’t leave then.
DK: Did you —
ES: But all in all I can say for all the people I met in the Air Force I never met anyone that I didn’t really like. You know what I mean?
DK: Yes. That was good.
ES: Yes. But —
DK: So, just talking a little bit about the balloons what did you have to do to with the balloons?
ES: Oh that was, that was another thing about the balloons they were, they had to be inspected. They were at one time they were manned by men.
DK: Right.
ES: And then they wanted to release the men so they had the women learning how to cope with the balloons because they were attached to a wheel arrangement. You could bring them down but the thing was that you had to have, two of you had to go in. There was a small sleeve at the side and then two of you had to go in because you had to inspect them in case they were any holes in them.
DK: Right.
ES: And of course if there was one in and they went unconscious so that was why they had to have two so there was always a safety thing.
DK: There was always one. Yeah.
ES: Yes.
DK: So these are, these are barrage balloons then.
ES: Yes. The big barrage balloons. Yes.
DK: Barrage balloons.
ES: Yes. But I do know somebody came up with the bright idea that we could perhaps make a minefield in the sky so they had some small balloons with, with dynamite things attached to them.
DK: Explosives. Yeah.
ES: But of course the idea was alright but the other things are attached to wire ropes. The big balloons. But these were free and they were just wandering off. You couldn’t keep them where you wanted them. So that didn’t work.
DK: So, did you, did you used to bring the balloons down and —
ES: No. I didn’t do it. I didn’t do that.
DK: You inspected them.
ES: I was in rigging. I was in the rigging. What else was I doing there? I have a job to remember now. Mostly [pause] mostly I know, mostly it was with the rigging but of course that was such a long time ago, but I know I was learning to fire a 22 rifle.
DK: Oh.
ES: And one girl came back from leave and didn’t know anything about this and I swung the rifle around and said, ‘Stick them up.’ [laughs] And the man who was teaching me said, ‘You never point a gun at anybody.’
DK: No.
ES: I said, ‘Not the Germans?’ You know. But it was just one of those things as we were learning.
DK: Okay. can you —
ES: Because it was imminent. At that time in 1940 it was imminent that the Germans were getting very near weren’t they?
DK: Can you remember where you were based with your barrage balloons? Exactly where it was.
ES: Yes, it was number 12 Balloon Centre I think it was.
DK: Okay.
ES: It was Fareham was one of the nearest towns as well.
DK: Yeah. Okay.
ES: And I’m sure it was twelve. 12 Balloon Centre. I can’t be positive after all.
DK: Did you see any of the German aircraft?
ES: No. The thing was the night, the night I was, they used to come over in the daytime.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Yes. And I can always remember being a woman, you might know this when they were coming over in the daytime I used to say, ‘I shall be killed and my auntie hasn’t seen me in my uniform.’ Yes. They came over in the daytime but one night I was on duty all the window glass was on my pillow so that was a good [pause] I might not have had a face the next day.
DK: So a bomb had been dropped had it nearby?
ES: Well, I think what they did was if they hadn’t dropped everything they dropped them on us so they didn’t take them back.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: I think that might have been what it was but as I say the balloons, the barrage balloons seemed to do the job a little bit so that was something. But it —
DK: Your balloon never brought down an aircraft then?
ES: I was, no. No. It was, that used to make me smile because I was in the Air Force for all that time and I’ve never been in an aeroplane and I’ve still never been in an aeroplane.
DK: Have you not? You’ve never flown.
ES: No. No because I suffer with travel sickness.
DK: Oh right.
ES: No. The furthest, the furthest I’ve been was the Isle of Man.
DK: Right.
ES: That was the only time I’ve been out of the country.
DK: Really. Oh. That was by boat was it? You went by boat to the Isle of Man.
ES: What?
DK: You went in a boat.
ES: Oh yes. Yes.
DK: To the Isle of Man. Yeah.
ES: Yes. It was, this was after the war of course.
DK: Right.
ES: But I had a friend who came from the Isle of Man and she invited me to go on leave with her and that particular evening when we were going it was, there was a dance in the sergeant’s mess. Now, this you might know about because there weren’t enough girls they brought a bus load of ladies from the town to be partners for the men on the camp. So this friend and I went back after the dance at night time to get all the way to Liverpool to catch the boat train for the Isle of Man. But that’s the furthest I, and the thing was you know it was like fishermens’ tales. When you were at the dining room the men would be talking about when they were here or when they were there and I used to say to myself when I was overseas on the Isle of Wight [sic] [laughs] but as I say they were, they were very, very nice people. I didn’t really meet anybody that I didn’t like.
DK: What did you use to do on your time off?
ES: Oh well, you couldn’t, you really couldn’t, it depended where you were. I mean there weren’t you didn’t really go off the camp —
DK: No.
ES: I mean in the war particularly. There was activities on the camp and also with all the people you were in a hut. Initially you were in a hut with twenty-four of you in a hut. Well, you were always having some bit of fun between you. I can’t remember all the details but as I say it was —
DK: So the twenty-four of you in one hut. You all got on well with each other then.
ES: Oh well, yes there was a fire. A fire. A big stove in the middle. Yes. Yes. Well, the thing one night I can remember we didn’t get on very well one night.
DK: Oh.
ES: The siren had sounded and we all had to troop out in the middle of the night to the shelter and one girl wouldn’t go. So when we came back she, she was laughing. She wouldn’t go. So I just went to her bed, got hold of it and tipped her out. I said, ‘Laugh that one off now.’
DK: She should have gone to the shelter shouldn’t she. Yes.
ES: She should have gone to the shelter and she was poking fun at us because we’d gone. I mean, that’s another thing. We had so many people from different walks of life as well.
DK: I was going to say. Yeah.
ES: So it was a good education in many many ways.
DK: So the ladies you served with they came from different parts of the country.
ES: Oh, of course.
DK: Different classes.
ES: That’s right.
DK: Different jobs.
ES: Yes. Yes. I had one of my friends as I say her son was going to be the first astronaut and then the Challenger blew up. So, that sort of thing. But the people I can remember vividly they were well as I say you could say they came from the top, top drawer.
DK: Yeah.
ES: And the bottom drawer and all stages in between.
DK: In between. Yeah.
ES: So it was a very good experience for life you know to know how different people are and how they react in different ways.
DK: You said you met your husband.
ES: Yes.
DK: He was in the RAF was he?
ES: He was in the RAF. He was in North Africa.
DK: Right.
ES: But yes.
DK: Do you know what he did? What he did in North Africa.
ES: Well, he want, he, was, wanted to be a pilot.
DK: Right.
ES: But they all wanted to be pilots didn’t they? But he was in accounts and so he had to because they wanted those, they were short of those so he had to do accounts.
DK: So, he was in accounts then. Yeah.
ES: But he served in North Africa and he came, when he came back to England he came to a station. I was at RAF Hereford then and he came to that, to Hereford camp. That’s where I met him. He asked me to dance and that was it.
DK: What was his name?
ES: James.
DK: James. Okay. Okay. So he came back from North Africa and then you met.
ES: Yeah.
DK: On a camp there.
ES: Met on the camp where he was because he was, he had joined up for a set —
DK: Right.
ES: Time and then his time came up you see just when he was where I was. His time finished so he was able to leave the Air Force because he’d served his —
DK: Right.
ES: Number of years that he’d signed up for before the war actually started you see.
DK: Okay.
ES: So that’s, that was it.
DK: So apart from the barrage balloons what else did you do while you were serving?
ES: I was, I was on a camp. Innsworth Lane it was called. It was between Cheltenham and Gloucester and that was where all the recruits, the recruits came and they [pause] the thing was I’m trying to tell you [laughs] they just came there. They had just been initiated but they hadn’t had all their jabs.
DK: Right. Okay.
ES: So they came to this particular camp. They hadn’t been issued with quite everything but they were having all their jabs and everything and so I had to take them across to the playing fields for some exercise.
DK: Right.
ES: And when we were coming back an officer came and said, ‘Why have those girls got their greatcoats on on a hot day like this?’ I said, ‘Well, we haven’t got any sports skirts.’ ‘Take them off. Take them off.’ And I had to march the rest of the way with these girls in their RAF knickers. I thought [laughs] I thought I would get [laughs] And the other thing was whether it was for I don’t know, recruitment I don’t know but there were two Beefeaters from the Tower of London and there was, in this particular mess the man in charge wouldn’t let you go in with friends. You had to fill a six, a table for six and you weren’t allowed here, there and everywhere. You had to do it so that it was easier for the waitresses and this particular time it was my turn and the only seat that was empty that I had to occupy was where the two Beefeaters were sitting in all their fancy outfits so I had my leg pulled a lot about that [laughs]
DK: How strange.
ES: They said, ‘Oh, she likes them in twos.’ Yes. It was, that was quite amusing that bit but as you say it was, it was well I can’t say anything wrong about anybody that I met.
DK: So, how many years did you serve?
ES: Well, if I went in, I went in in nineteen, as soon as I, as soon as I was twenty-one I went in.
DK: That would be 1940.
ES: And I went on to 1947.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Because I stayed on because my mother —
DK: 1947. Perfect.
ES: My mother had died and my father married again and that was why I was, I didn’t really have a home.
DK: Right.
ES: So I stayed on to help with the dispersal and I was planning to become a house mother —
DK: Right.
ES: In an orphanage.
DK: Oh right.
ES: Because I liked to be with children. But as my husband turned up I didn’t have to carry out that plan so I was able to have my own children instead of somebody [laughs]
DK: Oh good.
ES: Somebody else’s.
DK: Yeah. So how, how do you look back on your time when you were with the RAF?
ES: Oh, oh. I look back on it with interest. I often think that I’m a better person for the experience because it teaches you to speak to people on all levels and also to be tolerant of people because there are so many mixed ones on the —
DK: Yes.
ES: I know I can always remember I went on a gas course and it was so this was why you know they had [pause] it’s gone now.
DK: Gas. Gas you said.
ES: No. No. This had just been on. That old place down where it was old columns. You know it has an old history. Goes back to history.
DK: Oh.
ES: Do you know?
DK: Yeah.
ES: It has been on the television quite recently.
DK: Okay.
ES: I’ll think of it in a minute.
DK: Don’t worry. Don’t worry.
ES: Yeah [pause] No. It’s a very old. It’s always on television. Anything to do with antiques.
DK: Right.
ES: Well, it was —
DK: An old building is it? An old —
ES: No, it’s an old it looks like it been back in the Dark Ages when they used it for rituals and things.
DK: Oh, Stonehenge.
ES: Stonehenge.
DK: Stonehenge.
ES: That’s it.
DK: Yes. I was on a gas course somewhere near Stonehenge.
ES: Right.
DK: So I went to look at Stonehenge but of course in those days it wasn’t, now it is a tourist attraction isn’t it.
ES: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So —
DK: But wherever I was if there was anything interesting around I used to try and find out about it in my spare time.
DK: Was this, this gas course then? Did you have to wear the gas mask?
ES: Yes. No. No they were teaching you about the gas but you also had to go through a gas chamber.
DK: Right.
ES: Experience a gas chamber. Yes. So that you actually knew what it was you know to be in a gas attack.
DK: Right.
ES: Yes. That was the only thing.
DK: So they put you in a room full of gas.
ES: Well no. I can’t remember how we did it. They must have had some means of putting it, of putting you through it because you were only meant to be —
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: You got to know what the experience would be like.
DK: Must have been, must have been quite frightening.
ES: Well, yes. But then it was necessary because I mean you never quite know what they are going to come up with do you?
DK: No. So, you always had to carry your gas mask with you did you?
ES: Oh yes. You always had to have it. You couldn’t go out without your gas mask.
DK: Yeah.
ES: One of the other things not really serious but when it was as I said a third of the personnel had to be on the station every night and allocated all the various things. The rest of them used to go down to a village pub not too far away and the thing was that I didn’t drink. I didn’t drink at all but when it was time to go home I was the one that was finding everybody’s caps and jackets and gas masks and in the end I thought blow this. I’m not going to go to be a mother to this lot so I started to have a drink and let them look for their own caps.
DK: Their own hats and things.
ES: Yeah. Yes. As I say —
DK: Did you, did you meet any aircrew at all? Any of those who had flown on operations.
ES: No. No. No. I didn’t meet any except socially. I might have met some sometimes but no because there weren’t actually any squadrons quite near there.
DK: Right. Right.
ES: On the coast. They were further in. No. I didn’t meet any Air Force operational people.
DK: Did you see our aircraft flying out?
ES: Oh yes. Oh yes.
DK: What was that like then?
ES: Oh well, you just think well at least it is ours going that way instead of theirs coming this way. Well, the thing is when you are young you take things on the chin better than you do when you’re older. It becomes part of that’s what you have got to do and you have to get on with it. But as I say I really thought as I say you don’t know whether you’re going to be here tomorrow or not so what’s the good of being miserable? I found it sort of quite an education really and as I say I met so many nice people really.
DK: Did you stay in touch with any of them after the war?
ES: Yes. Oh yes. I stayed friends until they died. Their daughters were my daughter’s bridesmaids and that sort of thing.
DK: Oh right. Okay.
ES: Oh yes. I stayed friends with them.
DK: So lifelong friends.
ES: Lifelong.
DK: Lifelong friends.
ES: Three lifelong friends.
DK: Wow.
ES: Which is quite a lot isn’t it for three. Yes. They’ve all gone and I know last year I had an infection I’d been in here two years and the last year I had a chest infection and I remember looking at my bed and saying, ‘Where are you? I need you now.’ My three closest friends.
DK: Well, you’re looking, you’re looking very well now.
ES: Oh, not too bad am I [laughs]
DK: No.
ES: For my age.
DK: Okay. I’m very conscious of how long I’ve been speaking to you.
RA: Yeah.
DK: I’ll just hand over to Robert he’s got—
RA: Ethel, when Chris and I, when Chris and I visited you mentioned to us about how much you enjoyed singing.
ES: Oh yes.
RA: So, I think David might be interested to hear a little bit about, about when you were singing as a young, as a young lady and, you know what performances maybe you were involved with, that sort of thing because that was part of your —
ES: Oh yeah. Oh yes. I had a good, I had a good voice and when they were making up concert parties I used to sing. One, one person who was in the entertaining business said, ‘You get in touch with me and I’ll find work for you.’ We didn’t know then that it would be four years before anybody could get in touch with anybody. Yes. I did have a good voice and my father said I should have had it trained but as my mother died everything [pause] my father married again and I never got around to having my voice trained.
DK: Yeah.
ES: but I used to be very happy and even now when I can’t go to sleep I just recite all the songs I used to love.
DK: Do you? Well.
ES: I sing myself to sleep without music.
DK: Oh excellent.
ES: Oh yes. I used to enjoy that.
DK: Okay.
ES: I’ve got a photograph.
DK: Yes. Yeah.
ES: You know.
DK: Is this, this is your husband here is it?
ES: That’s my husband.
RA: Yes.
ES: That’s me in the Air Force. Are they on that big one? There’s me.
DK: That is you there. Yeah.
ES: Yeah. I’m in a long dress.
DK: Oh right. Okay.
ES: That was me. I called that my singing dress.
DK: Singing dress. That’s you in wartime is it?
ES: That’s me in wartime. Yes.
DK: Yeah. And this is all your grandchildren.
ES: These are all my family. My family. All my family. Yes.
DK: A big old family then is isn’t it.
ES: Yes, my five grandsons.
DK: Okay, I’ll put that up there.
ES: I’ve got them all on the one.
DK: Yeah. Okay. I’m going to switch this off now because I’m conscious we’ve been talking for a while but thank you very much for that.
ES: Yeah. Yes.
DK: Okay. That’s been —
ES: Well, I hope it is not too boring.
DK: It’s been very interesting.
ES: When you play it over you might edit it.
DK: We’ll edit it about yeah.
ES: Two thirds of it [laughs]
DK: We’ll just leave the good bits which are most of it actually. Most of it. Okay. I’m going to switch this off now. Okay.
[recording paused]
ES: Well, was it, did do it when it was after the war. We used to do it at different places and I used to think oh all the top musicians from London bands that was, they had to be in the Air Force anyway so I said, ‘Oh, I had a backing group that came from London.’
RA: That’s fantastic.
DK: So, you, you were a soprano were you?
ES: Oh yes.
RA: Soprano.
ES: Yes, I used to sing, “Torna a Surriento” in Italian and another one in German and the popular songs of the time.
RA: In German.
DK: You were singing in Italian and the German.
ES: Only, only one song in each.
DK: Right.
ES: Somebody, I’d met an Italian girl Christina and I named my daughter after this one. She taught me, “Torna a Surriento,” in Italian.
DK: Right.
ES: I never knew the English words for that.
RA: So, how did you meet her?
ES: In London. Well, I when I was staying with my auntie in London, I think my auntie died, I can’t remember quite what it was. I know she, you’re asking me for things that were just not a big patch in my life.
RA: No. Sure.
ES: I can’t —
DK: Did, did —
ES: I know —
DK: Sorry.
ES: I know I decided that when I was I waited in until I was twenty-one so that nobody could stop me doing what I wanted to do at that time.
RA: Right.
ES: That’s why I went in the Air Force but I had an auntie in London but she died so I was more or less thrown to the wolves sort of thing.
DK: Your singing group did it have a name? Did you —
ES: Oh no.
DK: No.
ES: We didn’t have a singing oh no there was three girls. One of those girls had, have you seen that one with three girls on it?
DK: I hadn’t but okay.
ES: Well, I haven’t got it up.
DK: Okay.
ES: Well, the three girls used to sing as well and one of them she could sing sort of operatic stuff. She was really beautiful and she used to sing very high. I used to sing the melody and another girl used to sing the descant.
DK: Had you —
ES: So we always, no it was a case of wherever you were —
DK: Right.
ES: There were always enough people to find some that could do something.
DK: Yeah.
ES: And you had to make entertainment and particularly at the one between Cheltenham and Gloucester. That was where they brought recruits and of course they couldn’t leave. They weren’t allowed to go off the camp.
DK: So it was entertainment for them.
ES: So we, the NCOs and everything.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Used to put little concerts on for them.
DK: Okay.
ES: And I can always remember one [laughs] one we were doing a bit of a concert for them and one girl, one of the actual recruits offered to do a comic strip tease. Of course, the girl, this would happen. An officer came. An officer came in and said, ‘What on earth are you doing?’ And she played merry hell. She didn’t realise it was only supposed to be a bit of fun for this girl to do it you know. I thought miserable old whatsit. So you see there was a saying wasn’t there and I always quote this saying, ‘If you could see the tapestry of your life you would be amazed how many gold stripes there are in it.’ When you think backwards there were quite a lot of bright spots in your life.
DK: Yeah.
ES: That you perhaps didn’t think about at the time.
DK: Your singing career didn’t carry on after the war then.
ES: Oh no. No. Oh no.
DK: That’s a shame.
ES: No. No. I got married and then I had my daughter. Then I had my son and I had my dog and a Siamese cat had my own little group.
DK: Yeah. Okay.
RA: Yeah.
DK: Okay. Thanks for that.
ES: I say it was a good job I didn’t say I had my children, a Siamese cat and a husband. Put them the right way around.
DK: The right way around. Yes. Okay.
ES: Thank you very much.
[recording paused]
RA: Because you always had a smile.
ES: Yes.
RA: Yeah.
ES: Well, the thing was because I was free and among a lot of nice people I was happy.
RA: Yes.
ES: Yes, I was called Happy Hanson.
RA: Excellent.
ES: And even now I’ve still got one son, I’ve got a son who was going to be our first astronaut and he’s old of course.
RA: Yes.
ES: And he calls me Auntie Happy. He still calls me Auntie Happy.
RA: Fabulous. Fabulous.
ES: Yeah. Yes, I was called Happy Hanson.
RA: Yes.
DK: I’ll just ask you about that. Your son was going to be an astronaut then was he?
ES: No. No, my friend’s son.
DK: Your friend’s son.
ES: My friend’s son.
DK: Ah, right. Okay.
ES: My three friends. Lifetime friends. One of them was going to be the astronaut and he had done all the training and he was due on the next flight and my friend was going to America to watch it. And then the Challenger blew up.
DK: Right.
ES: And all the programme about going to the —
DK: Yeah.
ES: Astronauts was —
DK: I think that was an RAF pilot wasn’t it? He was going to fly —
RA: Yes.
DK: On the Challenger.
RA: I think so. Yes.
DK: And then the Challenger disaster happened.
RA: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: So that was your friend’s son then was it?
ES: He was called Nigel Wood.
DK: Nigel Wood.
ES: He was in the Air Force.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
RA: Yeah.
DK: Yeah. Oh okay. So he must have been very disappointed then not to become an astronaut.
ES: It was the one big disappointment of his life.
DK: Wow, I can imagine.
ES: To do all that training because there was a lot of training to do.
DK: Right. Okay.
ES: Yes. Nigel Wood his name was.
DK: Nigel Wood. Okay.
ES: He was in the Air Force.
DK: Right.
ES: He was an Air Force officer anyway.
DK: So, you —
ES: My friend, his father was an RAF officer. My friend was —
RA: So what was your friend’s name? His mother.
ES: His mother.
RA: What was his mother’s name?
ES: The same as his. Oh, she had been Shelley. I know her maiden name was Shelley.
RA: Right.
ES: They came from Sheffield.
RA: Right.
ES: You see, me being Yorkshire.
RA: Yes.
ES: Yes.
DK: We’ll have to check on that.
RA: Yes.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: So his father was in the RAF anyway.
RA: Okay.
ES: Yes.
RA: Okay.
ES: And his mother of course was.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: That’s where I met her.
DK: Met her. Yeah.
ES: His father was called Donald Wood.
DK: Donald. Donald Wood.
ES: Anyway, the so-called astronaut was Nigel. Nigel Wood.
DK: Okay. Thank you.
ES: Yes.
DK: I’m just making sure it’s working.
ES: Right.
DK: Okay. So I’m David Kavanagh then and I work for the International Bomber Command Centre which is the Memorial to Bomber Command. With me —
RA: Robert.
DK: Robert.
RA: Ankerson.
DK: Ankerson. And I’m speaking to your good self Ethel Smith and could you just say what your date of birth is?
ES: The 2nd of April 1919.
DK: So, so you are one hundred and seven.
ES: Yes.
DK: How does it feel to be one hundred and seven?
ES: Not as good as I would like it to be of course but to think that I can still see and speak and walk about I have to be very thankful and I often say because I was in the Air Force from being twenty-one until the war was over, in 1940 I was in when it was Dunkirk and I think well because I gave them my youth they have given them back to me at the end of my life.
DK: Oh, so that is why you have reached such a great age.
ES: Yes [laughs]
DK: So you were born in nineteen [pause] what year were you born? Nineteen —
ES: 1919.
DK: 1919. So do you remember much about the 1920s?
ES: Oh yes. The thing was that everybody was very kind and one of the things I remember it was when the cinema started.
DK: Right.
ES: And I can always remember there used to be a man on a bicycle with a little short ladder attached to his bicycle and the paste, a pail of paste and a brush and this was when they first started putting big posters up about the films when they started.
DK: Did you —
ES: And I often remember. I can’t see anybody walking about nowadays with a ladder and a bicycle and paste. How things have changed haven’t they?
DK: Did you, did you enjoy going to the cinema then?
ES: Well, yes. When it was suitable. You didn’t always have very much money to spend when you were younger.
DK: So where were you born then?
ES: I was born in Doncaster.
DK: Doncaster.
ES: Yes.
DK: And what, what did your father do?
ES: My father was a boiler maker at the plant works and I’d like to think that he worked on the Flying Scotsman because the Flying Scotsman and the St Leger Racecourse are the two things that most people know about Doncaster.
DK: Yeah.
ES: But they don’t know I was born there.
DK: No [laughs] and what about your mother? What did your mother do?
ES: I can’t, my mother died quite young.
DK: Oh right.
ES: Before I was old enough to actually —
DK: Okay.
ES: Talk to her about she came from a bigger family and my father came from a family of five and two of his, one sister and one brother were school teachers and the other one had gone to France with him in the First War and met a French girl and married her.
DK: Okay.
ES: And never came back to England. So, I never met any, I never met any of my French connections but, and then of course after my father wouldn’t set foot in France anymore after the war so he never met his brother again.
DK: So your father served in France as well did he?
ES: Yes. Yeah.
DK: Did he serve on the Western Front then?
ES: Well, I don’t remember because in those days you didn’t talk.
DK: No.
ES: They didn’t talk about their experiences in the war.
DK: No.
ES: I think they were all so glad to put it all behind them.
DK: So he never spoke about it then.
ES: No. No.
DK: No.
ES: No.
DK: Did it —
ES: I know, I know he used to sing some song about, “Mademoiselles from Armentieres,” but I’m not quite sure whether that was a suitable song or not.
DK: Did you have any brothers and sisters?
ES: Yes, I had two brothers. One, one served in India and the other in the Italian campaign.
DK: Right.
ES: In the Second War.
DK: And can I just ask what was your maiden name?
ES: Hanson.
DK: Hanson. Okay.
ES: Hanson.
DK: And when you joined the RAF you were still a Hanson then.
ES: Yes. I was a Hanson.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Yes. That was, that was another thing you see. I came out of the Air Force with three lifelong friends plus a husband. So that’s not bad is it?
DK: No.
ES: But one of, one of my friends her son was this one that was going to go on the astronaut. He was due to fly the next flight and then the Challenger blew up.
DK: Oh.
ES: So it was cancelled. So I had, I had a big photograph of him in all his space outfit but I gave it to one of my grandchildren.
DK: Right. Right.
ES: But as I say, and also the thing is that you meet the one thing I think on the good side is you meet so many different people that you would never never have met in normal life.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Because they were all sorts. Initially when you joined early in 1940 if you didn’t like it you could go. You could leave but of course that changed and then, then eventually I was on this station between Portsmouth and Southampton and we had the Dunkirk people came. Some of them were on our camp. But the funny part of it was that they used to march in double quick time. But they only stayed until they were all collected up again. But otherwise it was, it wasn’t too, but we used to have a third of the camp had to stay on the camp all the time twenty-four hours and at 6 o’clock in the evening we almost, everyone, all the personnel assembled.
DK: Right.
ES: And then you relegated, you were given either a sick bay, the armoury or the guard room or perimeter work so —
DK: Do you remember much about the 1930s?
ES: 1930s.
DK: And —
ES: 1930s [unclear]
DK: Before the war.
ES: Oh, before the war. Oh yes. I was, I was in London. I was in London with an aunt, staying with an auntie and I can remember hearing Hitler talking over the radio telling all German nationals to return to Germany. That’s one of the things I remember. But —
DK: How did it make you feel? The rise of Hitler. How did that —
ES: Yes. I was going to say I don’t, I don’t think we’d actually thought about that sort of thing just then, you know. You don’t think about. You just thought well that’s strange but of course I suppose the people in authority knew what was sort of hanging around. But as I say as soon as I was twenty-one because in those days you weren’t responsible for yourself until you were twenty-one.
DK: Twenty-one.
ES: So as soon as I was twenty-one I joined the Air Force.
DK: What made you decide on the Air Force? Why the Air Force?
ES: Oh, I don’t really know.
DK: Was it uniforms?
ES: Not particularly. No. I wasn’t familiar with anyone —
DK: No.
ES: In the Air Force. I suppose, I suppose it seemed more attractive.
DK: So did you have to go to a recruitment office?
ES: Yes. In Kingsway.
DK: Kingsway. Okay.
ES: In Kingsway I think it was.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Yes and I soon went down to the station. It was at Titchfield. RAF Titchfield between Portsmouth and Southampton but —
DK: How did you take to the RAF? The discipline and the marching.
ES: Oh well, in my youth you did as you were told.
DK: Right.
ES: So it was no different really was it?
DK: No.
ES: No. Oh, I didn’t mind it at all. No. I quite, as I say you met, I met, it was so funny because they started a bit of a concert party because whenever you get a crowd of people together there was always someone that could do something. But I can always remember which makes me smile one of the women was older and she played one of these instruments, big instruments and one of the men said to her, ‘Could you possibly swing, “Nellie Dean.”’ It was the last thing in the world that that woman would have played because she was a little bit more serious.
DK: Yeah.
ES: But you see you could leave then but then of course they had to be you couldn’t leave then.
DK: Did you —
ES: But all in all I can say for all the people I met in the Air Force I never met anyone that I didn’t really like. You know what I mean?
DK: Yes. That was good.
ES: Yes. But —
DK: So, just talking a little bit about the balloons what did you have to do to with the balloons?
ES: Oh that was, that was another thing about the balloons they were, they had to be inspected. They were at one time they were manned by men.
DK: Right.
ES: And then they wanted to release the men so they had the women learning how to cope with the balloons because they were attached to a wheel arrangement. You could bring them down but the thing was that you had to have, two of you had to go in. There was a small sleeve at the side and then two of you had to go in because you had to inspect them in case they were any holes in them.
DK: Right.
ES: And of course if there was one in and they went unconscious so that was why they had to have two so there was always a safety thing.
DK: There was always one. Yeah.
ES: Yes.
DK: So these are, these are barrage balloons then.
ES: Yes. The big barrage balloons. Yes.
DK: Barrage balloons.
ES: Yes. But I do know somebody came up with the bright idea that we could perhaps make a minefield in the sky so they had some small balloons with, with dynamite things attached to them.
DK: Explosives. Yeah.
ES: But of course the idea was alright but the other things are attached to wire ropes. The big balloons. But these were free and they were just wandering off. You couldn’t keep them where you wanted them. So that didn’t work.
DK: So, did you, did you used to bring the balloons down and —
ES: No. I didn’t do it. I didn’t do that.
DK: You inspected them.
ES: I was in rigging. I was in the rigging. What else was I doing there? I have a job to remember now. Mostly [pause] mostly I know, mostly it was with the rigging but of course that was such a long time ago, but I know I was learning to fire a 22 rifle.
DK: Oh.
ES: And one girl came back from leave and didn’t know anything about this and I swung the rifle around and said, ‘Stick them up.’ [laughs] And the man who was teaching me said, ‘You never point a gun at anybody.’
DK: No.
ES: I said, ‘Not the Germans?’ You know. But it was just one of those things as we were learning.
DK: Okay. can you —
ES: Because it was imminent. At that time in 1940 it was imminent that the Germans were getting very near weren’t they?
DK: Can you remember where you were based with your barrage balloons? Exactly where it was.
ES: Yes, it was number 12 Balloon Centre I think it was.
DK: Okay.
ES: It was Fareham was one of the nearest towns as well.
DK: Yeah. Okay.
ES: And I’m sure it was twelve. 12 Balloon Centre. I can’t be positive after all.
DK: Did you see any of the German aircraft?
ES: No. The thing was the night, the night I was, they used to come over in the daytime.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Yes. And I can always remember being a woman, you might know this when they were coming over in the daytime I used to say, ‘I shall be killed and my auntie hasn’t seen me in my uniform.’ Yes. They came over in the daytime but one night I was on duty all the window glass was on my pillow so that was a good [pause] I might not have had a face the next day.
DK: So a bomb had been dropped had it nearby?
ES: Well, I think what they did was if they hadn’t dropped everything they dropped them on us so they didn’t take them back.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: I think that might have been what it was but as I say the balloons, the barrage balloons seemed to do the job a little bit so that was something. But it —
DK: Your balloon never brought down an aircraft then?
ES: I was, no. No. It was, that used to make me smile because I was in the Air Force for all that time and I’ve never been in an aeroplane and I’ve still never been in an aeroplane.
DK: Have you not? You’ve never flown.
ES: No. No because I suffer with travel sickness.
DK: Oh right.
ES: No. The furthest, the furthest I’ve been was the Isle of Man.
DK: Right.
ES: That was the only time I’ve been out of the country.
DK: Really. Oh. That was by boat was it? You went by boat to the Isle of Man.
ES: What?
DK: You went in a boat.
ES: Oh yes. Yes.
DK: To the Isle of Man. Yeah.
ES: Yes. It was, this was after the war of course.
DK: Right.
ES: But I had a friend who came from the Isle of Man and she invited me to go on leave with her and that particular evening when we were going it was, there was a dance in the sergeant’s mess. Now, this you might know about because there weren’t enough girls they brought a bus load of ladies from the town to be partners for the men on the camp. So this friend and I went back after the dance at night time to get all the way to Liverpool to catch the boat train for the Isle of Man. But that’s the furthest I, and the thing was you know it was like fishermens’ tales. When you were at the dining room the men would be talking about when they were here or when they were there and I used to say to myself when I was overseas on the Isle of Wight [sic] [laughs] but as I say they were, they were very, very nice people. I didn’t really meet anybody that I didn’t like.
DK: What did you use to do on your time off?
ES: Oh well, you couldn’t, you really couldn’t, it depended where you were. I mean there weren’t you didn’t really go off the camp —
DK: No.
ES: I mean in the war particularly. There was activities on the camp and also with all the people you were in a hut. Initially you were in a hut with twenty-four of you in a hut. Well, you were always having some bit of fun between you. I can’t remember all the details but as I say it was —
DK: So the twenty-four of you in one hut. You all got on well with each other then.
ES: Oh well, yes there was a fire. A fire. A big stove in the middle. Yes. Yes. Well, the thing one night I can remember we didn’t get on very well one night.
DK: Oh.
ES: The siren had sounded and we all had to troop out in the middle of the night to the shelter and one girl wouldn’t go. So when we came back she, she was laughing. She wouldn’t go. So I just went to her bed, got hold of it and tipped her out. I said, ‘Laugh that one off now.’
DK: She should have gone to the shelter shouldn’t she. Yes.
ES: She should have gone to the shelter and she was poking fun at us because we’d gone. I mean, that’s another thing. We had so many people from different walks of life as well.
DK: I was going to say. Yeah.
ES: So it was a good education in many many ways.
DK: So the ladies you served with they came from different parts of the country.
ES: Oh, of course.
DK: Different classes.
ES: That’s right.
DK: Different jobs.
ES: Yes. Yes. I had one of my friends as I say her son was going to be the first astronaut and then the Challenger blew up. So, that sort of thing. But the people I can remember vividly they were well as I say you could say they came from the top, top drawer.
DK: Yeah.
ES: And the bottom drawer and all stages in between.
DK: In between. Yeah.
ES: So it was a very good experience for life you know to know how different people are and how they react in different ways.
DK: You said you met your husband.
ES: Yes.
DK: He was in the RAF was he?
ES: He was in the RAF. He was in North Africa.
DK: Right.
ES: But yes.
DK: Do you know what he did? What he did in North Africa.
ES: Well, he want, he, was, wanted to be a pilot.
DK: Right.
ES: But they all wanted to be pilots didn’t they? But he was in accounts and so he had to because they wanted those, they were short of those so he had to do accounts.
DK: So, he was in accounts then. Yeah.
ES: But he served in North Africa and he came, when he came back to England he came to a station. I was at RAF Hereford then and he came to that, to Hereford camp. That’s where I met him. He asked me to dance and that was it.
DK: What was his name?
ES: James.
DK: James. Okay. Okay. So he came back from North Africa and then you met.
ES: Yeah.
DK: On a camp there.
ES: Met on the camp where he was because he was, he had joined up for a set —
DK: Right.
ES: Time and then his time came up you see just when he was where I was. His time finished so he was able to leave the Air Force because he’d served his —
DK: Right.
ES: Number of years that he’d signed up for before the war actually started you see.
DK: Okay.
ES: So that’s, that was it.
DK: So apart from the barrage balloons what else did you do while you were serving?
ES: I was, I was on a camp. Innsworth Lane it was called. It was between Cheltenham and Gloucester and that was where all the recruits, the recruits came and they [pause] the thing was I’m trying to tell you [laughs] they just came there. They had just been initiated but they hadn’t had all their jabs.
DK: Right. Okay.
ES: So they came to this particular camp. They hadn’t been issued with quite everything but they were having all their jabs and everything and so I had to take them across to the playing fields for some exercise.
DK: Right.
ES: And when we were coming back an officer came and said, ‘Why have those girls got their greatcoats on on a hot day like this?’ I said, ‘Well, we haven’t got any sports skirts.’ ‘Take them off. Take them off.’ And I had to march the rest of the way with these girls in their RAF knickers. I thought [laughs] I thought I would get [laughs] And the other thing was whether it was for I don’t know, recruitment I don’t know but there were two Beefeaters from the Tower of London and there was, in this particular mess the man in charge wouldn’t let you go in with friends. You had to fill a six, a table for six and you weren’t allowed here, there and everywhere. You had to do it so that it was easier for the waitresses and this particular time it was my turn and the only seat that was empty that I had to occupy was where the two Beefeaters were sitting in all their fancy outfits so I had my leg pulled a lot about that [laughs]
DK: How strange.
ES: They said, ‘Oh, she likes them in twos.’ Yes. It was, that was quite amusing that bit but as you say it was, it was well I can’t say anything wrong about anybody that I met.
DK: So, how many years did you serve?
ES: Well, if I went in, I went in in nineteen, as soon as I, as soon as I was twenty-one I went in.
DK: That would be 1940.
ES: And I went on to 1947.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Because I stayed on because my mother —
DK: 1947. Perfect.
ES: My mother had died and my father married again and that was why I was, I didn’t really have a home.
DK: Right.
ES: So I stayed on to help with the dispersal and I was planning to become a house mother —
DK: Right.
ES: In an orphanage.
DK: Oh right.
ES: Because I liked to be with children. But as my husband turned up I didn’t have to carry out that plan so I was able to have my own children instead of somebody [laughs]
DK: Oh good.
ES: Somebody else’s.
DK: Yeah. So how, how do you look back on your time when you were with the RAF?
ES: Oh, oh. I look back on it with interest. I often think that I’m a better person for the experience because it teaches you to speak to people on all levels and also to be tolerant of people because there are so many mixed ones on the —
DK: Yes.
ES: I know I can always remember I went on a gas course and it was so this was why you know they had [pause] it’s gone now.
DK: Gas. Gas you said.
ES: No. No. This had just been on. That old place down where it was old columns. You know it has an old history. Goes back to history.
DK: Oh.
ES: Do you know?
DK: Yeah.
ES: It has been on the television quite recently.
DK: Okay.
ES: I’ll think of it in a minute.
DK: Don’t worry. Don’t worry.
ES: Yeah [pause] No. It’s a very old. It’s always on television. Anything to do with antiques.
DK: Right.
ES: Well, it was —
DK: An old building is it? An old —
ES: No, it’s an old it looks like it been back in the Dark Ages when they used it for rituals and things.
DK: Oh, Stonehenge.
ES: Stonehenge.
DK: Stonehenge.
ES: That’s it.
DK: Yes. I was on a gas course somewhere near Stonehenge.
ES: Right.
DK: So I went to look at Stonehenge but of course in those days it wasn’t, now it is a tourist attraction isn’t it.
ES: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So —
DK: But wherever I was if there was anything interesting around I used to try and find out about it in my spare time.
DK: Was this, this gas course then? Did you have to wear the gas mask?
ES: Yes. No. No they were teaching you about the gas but you also had to go through a gas chamber.
DK: Right.
ES: Experience a gas chamber. Yes. So that you actually knew what it was you know to be in a gas attack.
DK: Right.
ES: Yes. That was the only thing.
DK: So they put you in a room full of gas.
ES: Well no. I can’t remember how we did it. They must have had some means of putting it, of putting you through it because you were only meant to be —
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: You got to know what the experience would be like.
DK: Must have been, must have been quite frightening.
ES: Well, yes. But then it was necessary because I mean you never quite know what they are going to come up with do you?
DK: No. So, you always had to carry your gas mask with you did you?
ES: Oh yes. You always had to have it. You couldn’t go out without your gas mask.
DK: Yeah.
ES: One of the other things not really serious but when it was as I said a third of the personnel had to be on the station every night and allocated all the various things. The rest of them used to go down to a village pub not too far away and the thing was that I didn’t drink. I didn’t drink at all but when it was time to go home I was the one that was finding everybody’s caps and jackets and gas masks and in the end I thought blow this. I’m not going to go to be a mother to this lot so I started to have a drink and let them look for their own caps.
DK: Their own hats and things.
ES: Yeah. Yes. As I say —
DK: Did you, did you meet any aircrew at all? Any of those who had flown on operations.
ES: No. No. No. I didn’t meet any except socially. I might have met some sometimes but no because there weren’t actually any squadrons quite near there.
DK: Right. Right.
ES: On the coast. They were further in. No. I didn’t meet any Air Force operational people.
DK: Did you see our aircraft flying out?
ES: Oh yes. Oh yes.
DK: What was that like then?
ES: Oh well, you just think well at least it is ours going that way instead of theirs coming this way. Well, the thing is when you are young you take things on the chin better than you do when you’re older. It becomes part of that’s what you have got to do and you have to get on with it. But as I say I really thought as I say you don’t know whether you’re going to be here tomorrow or not so what’s the good of being miserable? I found it sort of quite an education really and as I say I met so many nice people really.
DK: Did you stay in touch with any of them after the war?
ES: Yes. Oh yes. I stayed friends until they died. Their daughters were my daughter’s bridesmaids and that sort of thing.
DK: Oh right. Okay.
ES: Oh yes. I stayed friends with them.
DK: So lifelong friends.
ES: Lifelong.
DK: Lifelong friends.
ES: Three lifelong friends.
DK: Wow.
ES: Which is quite a lot isn’t it for three. Yes. They’ve all gone and I know last year I had an infection I’d been in here two years and the last year I had a chest infection and I remember looking at my bed and saying, ‘Where are you? I need you now.’ My three closest friends.
DK: Well, you’re looking, you’re looking very well now.
ES: Oh, not too bad am I [laughs]
DK: No.
ES: For my age.
DK: Okay. I’m very conscious of how long I’ve been speaking to you.
RA: Yeah.
DK: I’ll just hand over to Robert he’s got—
RA: Ethel, when Chris and I, when Chris and I visited you mentioned to us about how much you enjoyed singing.
ES: Oh yes.
RA: So, I think David might be interested to hear a little bit about, about when you were singing as a young, as a young lady and, you know what performances maybe you were involved with, that sort of thing because that was part of your —
ES: Oh yeah. Oh yes. I had a good, I had a good voice and when they were making up concert parties I used to sing. One, one person who was in the entertaining business said, ‘You get in touch with me and I’ll find work for you.’ We didn’t know then that it would be four years before anybody could get in touch with anybody. Yes. I did have a good voice and my father said I should have had it trained but as my mother died everything [pause] my father married again and I never got around to having my voice trained.
DK: Yeah.
ES: but I used to be very happy and even now when I can’t go to sleep I just recite all the songs I used to love.
DK: Do you? Well.
ES: I sing myself to sleep without music.
DK: Oh excellent.
ES: Oh yes. I used to enjoy that.
DK: Okay.
ES: I’ve got a photograph.
DK: Yes. Yeah.
ES: You know.
DK: Is this, this is your husband here is it?
ES: That’s my husband.
RA: Yes.
ES: That’s me in the Air Force. Are they on that big one? There’s me.
DK: That is you there. Yeah.
ES: Yeah. I’m in a long dress.
DK: Oh right. Okay.
ES: That was me. I called that my singing dress.
DK: Singing dress. That’s you in wartime is it?
ES: That’s me in wartime. Yes.
DK: Yeah. And this is all your grandchildren.
ES: These are all my family. My family. All my family. Yes.
DK: A big old family then is isn’t it.
ES: Yes, my five grandsons.
DK: Okay, I’ll put that up there.
ES: I’ve got them all on the one.
DK: Yeah. Okay. I’m going to switch this off now because I’m conscious we’ve been talking for a while but thank you very much for that.
ES: Yeah. Yes.
DK: Okay. That’s been —
ES: Well, I hope it is not too boring.
DK: It’s been very interesting.
ES: When you play it over you might edit it.
DK: We’ll edit it about yeah.
ES: Two thirds of it [laughs]
DK: We’ll just leave the good bits which are most of it actually. Most of it. Okay. I’m going to switch this off now. Okay.
[recording paused]
ES: Well, was it, did do it when it was after the war. We used to do it at different places and I used to think oh all the top musicians from London bands that was, they had to be in the Air Force anyway so I said, ‘Oh, I had a backing group that came from London.’
RA: That’s fantastic.
DK: So, you, you were a soprano were you?
ES: Oh yes.
RA: Soprano.
ES: Yes, I used to sing, “Torna a Surriento” in Italian and another one in German and the popular songs of the time.
RA: In German.
DK: You were singing in Italian and the German.
ES: Only, only one song in each.
DK: Right.
ES: Somebody, I’d met an Italian girl Christina and I named my daughter after this one. She taught me, “Torna a Surriento,” in Italian.
DK: Right.
ES: I never knew the English words for that.
RA: So, how did you meet her?
ES: In London. Well, I when I was staying with my auntie in London, I think my auntie died, I can’t remember quite what it was. I know she, you’re asking me for things that were just not a big patch in my life.
RA: No. Sure.
ES: I can’t —
DK: Did, did —
ES: I know —
DK: Sorry.
ES: I know I decided that when I was I waited in until I was twenty-one so that nobody could stop me doing what I wanted to do at that time.
RA: Right.
ES: That’s why I went in the Air Force but I had an auntie in London but she died so I was more or less thrown to the wolves sort of thing.
DK: Your singing group did it have a name? Did you —
ES: Oh no.
DK: No.
ES: We didn’t have a singing oh no there was three girls. One of those girls had, have you seen that one with three girls on it?
DK: I hadn’t but okay.
ES: Well, I haven’t got it up.
DK: Okay.
ES: Well, the three girls used to sing as well and one of them she could sing sort of operatic stuff. She was really beautiful and she used to sing very high. I used to sing the melody and another girl used to sing the descant.
DK: Had you —
ES: So we always, no it was a case of wherever you were —
DK: Right.
ES: There were always enough people to find some that could do something.
DK: Yeah.
ES: And you had to make entertainment and particularly at the one between Cheltenham and Gloucester. That was where they brought recruits and of course they couldn’t leave. They weren’t allowed to go off the camp.
DK: So it was entertainment for them.
ES: So we, the NCOs and everything.
DK: Yeah.
ES: Used to put little concerts on for them.
DK: Okay.
ES: And I can always remember one [laughs] one we were doing a bit of a concert for them and one girl, one of the actual recruits offered to do a comic strip tease. Of course, the girl, this would happen. An officer came. An officer came in and said, ‘What on earth are you doing?’ And she played merry hell. She didn’t realise it was only supposed to be a bit of fun for this girl to do it you know. I thought miserable old whatsit. So you see there was a saying wasn’t there and I always quote this saying, ‘If you could see the tapestry of your life you would be amazed how many gold stripes there are in it.’ When you think backwards there were quite a lot of bright spots in your life.
DK: Yeah.
ES: That you perhaps didn’t think about at the time.
DK: Your singing career didn’t carry on after the war then.
ES: Oh no. No. Oh no.
DK: That’s a shame.
ES: No. No. I got married and then I had my daughter. Then I had my son and I had my dog and a Siamese cat had my own little group.
DK: Yeah. Okay.
RA: Yeah.
DK: Okay. Thanks for that.
ES: I say it was a good job I didn’t say I had my children, a Siamese cat and a husband. Put them the right way around.
DK: The right way around. Yes. Okay.
ES: Thank you very much.
[recording paused]
RA: Because you always had a smile.
ES: Yes.
RA: Yeah.
ES: Well, the thing was because I was free and among a lot of nice people I was happy.
RA: Yes.
ES: Yes, I was called Happy Hanson.
RA: Excellent.
ES: And even now I’ve still got one son, I’ve got a son who was going to be our first astronaut and he’s old of course.
RA: Yes.
ES: And he calls me Auntie Happy. He still calls me Auntie Happy.
RA: Fabulous. Fabulous.
ES: Yeah. Yes, I was called Happy Hanson.
RA: Yes.
DK: I’ll just ask you about that. Your son was going to be an astronaut then was he?
ES: No. No, my friend’s son.
DK: Your friend’s son.
ES: My friend’s son.
DK: Ah, right. Okay.
ES: My three friends. Lifetime friends. One of them was going to be the astronaut and he had done all the training and he was due on the next flight and my friend was going to America to watch it. And then the Challenger blew up.
DK: Right.
ES: And all the programme about going to the —
DK: Yeah.
ES: Astronauts was —
DK: I think that was an RAF pilot wasn’t it? He was going to fly —
RA: Yes.
DK: On the Challenger.
RA: I think so. Yes.
DK: And then the Challenger disaster happened.
RA: Yeah. Yeah.
DK: So that was your friend’s son then was it?
ES: He was called Nigel Wood.
DK: Nigel Wood.
ES: He was in the Air Force.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
RA: Yeah.
DK: Yeah. Oh okay. So he must have been very disappointed then not to become an astronaut.
ES: It was the one big disappointment of his life.
DK: Wow, I can imagine.
ES: To do all that training because there was a lot of training to do.
DK: Right. Okay.
ES: Yes. Nigel Wood his name was.
DK: Nigel Wood. Okay.
ES: He was in the Air Force.
DK: Right.
ES: He was an Air Force officer anyway.
DK: So, you —
ES: My friend, his father was an RAF officer. My friend was —
RA: So what was your friend’s name? His mother.
ES: His mother.
RA: What was his mother’s name?
ES: The same as his. Oh, she had been Shelley. I know her maiden name was Shelley.
RA: Right.
ES: They came from Sheffield.
RA: Right.
ES: You see, me being Yorkshire.
RA: Yes.
ES: Yes.
DK: We’ll have to check on that.
RA: Yes.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: So his father was in the RAF anyway.
RA: Okay.
ES: Yes.
RA: Okay.
ES: And his mother of course was.
DK: Yeah. Yeah.
ES: That’s where I met her.
DK: Met her. Yeah.
ES: His father was called Donald Wood.
DK: Donald. Donald Wood.
ES: Anyway, the so-called astronaut was Nigel. Nigel Wood.
DK: Okay. Thank you.
Collection
Citation
David Kavanagh, “Interview with Ethel Smith,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed August 10, 2026, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/61589.