Interview with Ian Wilkie
Title
Interview with Ian Wilkie
Description
Ian Wilkie served as a flight engineer on 158 Squadron before being posted to RAF Leconfield in January 1944. Paddy, the mid-upper gunner on his crew always said that shrapnel wouldn’t hurt them until he was hit by it. He was pulled from the turret and Ian had to take over his position. On an operation to Leipzig he was horrified to find that the overload tanks had not been filled. He was determined to continue regardless and just didn’t mention the situation to the pilot. They made an emergency landing at RAF Hardwick which was an American base and they were debriefed by the actor Jimmy Stewart. Ian found the operations terrifying but admits that being on a training squadron had its own terrors.
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00:41:38 audio recording
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This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
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AWilkieI[Date]-01
Transcription
This is Ian Wilkie. We talked the other day and I’m taking the opportunity of sending you a tape. I hope it comes out all right. It’s [pause] I’m not very used to this talking on this tape but we’ll try. If it doesn't I’ll, any questions I’ll, you know let you have anything you want in writing but let’s try the tape first shall we. Well, first of all we went to Leconfield. I was amongst the first crews that went from Lissett. That was 158 Squadron. I crossed to Leconfield in January 1944. We had done no operations at, at Lissett. We were a new crew and the crew in fact was let’s think [pause] starting from the front the bomb aimer was a chap called Spanky Macfarlane, a Canadian who in fact didn’t, he may have done one or two ops with us but not many and then he had sinus trouble so he had to back out. Coming forward Roger Gray, a Canadian I’m still in touch with. He lives in Canada at a place called Indian Head. Then there was a chap, the wireless operator was Georges. Georges with an S Hammond who claimed to be Anglo-Belgian. He probably was too but [laughs] he was a great lad for the ladies. Georges Hammond. Then the skipper. Well, here it was a bit difficult. We started ops with a chap called Bob Fry. More of him later. Then myself Ian Wilkie, engineer. Then Paddy. Paddy Parkinson who was the mid-upper gunner, obviously from Ireland. Incidentally, Bob Fry, yes, he was, he was Welsh. Coming back again Paddy Parkinson, mid-upper gunner and from Ireland and right up the back, tail end Charlie was Mac Mackenzie. Frank Mackenzie always called Mac. Another Canadian. So we were a fairly mixed bag of races. Now, I’ve got on the list that you’ve got here and see if I can, it might be easier to fill it in as I go along. A particular task or duty. Serious or humorous. Well, I don’t know. Task or duty was flight engineer I suppose and that was pretty serious and other times very hilarious. But however now a particular operational trip dicey or otherwise. Well, it’s difficult this, Bill. There was many of them. Obviously you’ll have to pick out the wheat from the chaff on this tape. I just hope that there is any wheat at all for you to pick out. Our first op was on the 28th of January 1944 and it was to the big city, Berlin which was a bit of a [laughs] I don’t know how to put it but it’s a bit exciting to start your operational career going to the big city but we didn’t get there. We returned early. Severe icing it says. We did, as it might be a matter of interest on that trip and maybe the next one. I can remember we had a gunner, gun position under the kite where the H2S went eventually. I think, we used to call them the dustbin, the dustbin gunner I don’t know what the official name was and there was a fellow in there. I can’t remember his name unfortunately. He’d done a few ops and he was somewhat nervous flying with a new crew and I don’t blame him one little bit. Anyway, we got we saw various things going on as we were flying along. Didn’t know what the hell it was really except that it was other fellas getting shot down I suppose and back we came early. And then we went on leave and I tell you this because the next time we went on ops again it was Berlin. Now, this was a bit memorable because Paddy, the mid-upper gunner who was a bit of a character had always told us that flak would never hurt you. ‘It won’t hurt you a bit,’ says Paddy. It was psychological according to Paddy which it probably was except on that first trip. A chunk of flak hit him behind the ear which was one shouldn’t laugh about it but we did of course. We said to him, ‘Paddy, it’s a damned good job it hit you on the head or it might have done you a lot of damage.’ Anyway, Paddy was laid low and pulled out the turret and I climbed in and we were, I don’t know where we were. Over Berlin I suppose. It was a bit unusual there wasn’t any flak flying because we were late. Very very late. All the searchlights had gone out I seem to remember. They were all probably having a cup of cocoa in the bunkers and we trundled over and I remember seeing two fighters going the other way flying underneath us going home and we struggled back across Germany, Holland and fighter flares around the place but we weren’t attacked. God knows why. And then the navigator Roger said, ‘Ok, chaps. Relax. We’re over the North Sea.’ Slight miscalculation. We were over the Zuiderzee and flew over the middle of Amsterdam and the German gunners took exception and shot the hell out of us. But we got home again late. Everybody had finished, lights out and when we called up, landed, ‘Where the hell have you been?’ they said, and Paddy was whipped off to hospital. A couple of days later he was out with a plaster behind his ear and as good as new nearly and that was it. The next stop on the 19th of February we went off to Leipzig and that was a bit memorable too because we were carrying overload tanks and I remember we had to empty I think the two inner wing tanks first and then pump in the overload tank into the, into the two inner tanks. When I switched on to my horror there was nowt in the overload tank. It had been fitted on but they hadn’t filled it up. Great oversight that was. So and here [laughs] there is a bit of a, I suppose I could have been court martialled for this lot. I thought about it very deeply and I went and had a chat to Roger the navigator and between us we reckoned that if we went straight to Leipzig I’ll tell you we were utter [laughs] we were naïve, straight to Leipzig and came home again without being involved in fights and with, you know with fighters and whatnot we could just about make it. And so we did and we were halfway back or more when we told the skipper, this Bob Fry that we were short of petrol. Anyway, to cut a long story sideways we landed at a place called Hardwick which was I suppose in Norfolk. It was an American station. By the time we got there we were, you know running on a promise. There was nothing left. We called up mayday and they shoved the lights on and down we came and that was that except that we got debriefed by a certain Jimmy Stewart. Yeah. The same one. The film star fella, which was a bit exciting. Anyway, that was that. In fact, the next, looking at my, I’m looking at my book while I’m talking to you. Schweinfurt. That was another exciting one. There was a lady catering officer came along and decided that we lads weren’t getting enough of the good stuff to eat and gave us baked beans would you believe before we took off. As you know the Last Supper as it were. We used to get bacon and eggs and she added baked beans. Well, of course what she’d forgotten or didn’t know was that the higher you go the pressure gets less and the pressure inside with baked, well you know what happens and I suppose we were the first jet propelled group of aircraft to pass over Germany ever in history and boy we [pause] Anyway, we were, the last leg was a long long leg into, into Schweinfurt and my was it cold. Jesus. You know we are talking what thirty degrees below something like that and Gorgeous Georges the wireless operator decided he had to go and pay a visit to the elsan and back he went. The elsan was right down the to the rear of the kite and there was a little blue light above it and Georges went down and settled himself down and a look of, well I was going to say a look of bliss came over his face. You couldn’t see his face for his oxygen mask and what not but by the crinkle of his eyes you could imagine the look of bliss which was excellent. Splendid except when he tried to get up he was stuck on the, on the seat. He’d frozen. Completely frozen on the seat [laughs] Oh dear. Poor old Georges. He had a ring around his bum for some weeks after that. Anyway, I see we landed at Tangmere because there was fog up in, up in Yorkshire. From then on a couple of ops to Stuttgart and then we went to Frankfurt or supposed to be going to Frankfurt and we got well on our way and we were just crossing the Belgian coast and the flak ships opened up and it was a bit of a reception and Bob Fry decided it was time to go home. We won’t talk too much about what happened except to say we did go home. He jettisoned the bombs on his own and I mean by that he had a jettison thing in the cockpit so the bomb aimer didn’t jettison, he did. And that was the last time we flew with, by that time he was flight sergeant, with Flight Sergeant Fry and then along came an Aussie called Rooney. Pilot Officer Bob Rooney, an Aussie and he had been, he’d been in a crash. He’d been a second pilot and been in a crash and his crew had been disbursed. So Bob came along and took over the entire crew and we did some all sort of cross countries and things with him and then we, off we went on ops but by this time it was, oh April and we were in that period of ops where we were bombing railway stations and all sorts of things. Preparation for D-Day really and I say we did, oh God all sorts of places. Tournai, wherever that is. Villeneuve. Villeneuve. That’s right. Villeneuve. The only thing I can remember outstanding about any of these places or maybe it was later at Trappes I know we were coming back from France and we were, we saw sort of red lights in the sky moving at a colossal pace. Far faster than we were travelling. We were going with the stream, the bomber stream and they whistled past us above us or below us. We were a bit shattered. It was about the time I seem to remember that Buzz Bombs or V-1s or call them what you like were beginning to be chucked at London and we had the idea that probably what was happening —
[telephone ringing]
I’ve got to stop. Telephone. Damn.
[recording paused]
Right. Sorry, telephone interrupted there. What was I saying? Yes. We were coming back from somewhere in France and these objects shot around. Anyway, we reported back to intelligence when we got back and they didn’t seem all that interested but it was a bit startling. I can’t remember now whether anybody else had seen them or not. Maybe it was one of these things you kept your trap shut if you saw something a bit out of the way because people thought you were going flak happy. Anyway, years and years later I was reading a book called, “Flying Saucers Have Landed ,” and to my astonishment in this book there was a chapter devoted to these weird objects flying around in the bomber streams and apparently other people had reported them. When the war finished apparently the RAF intelligence people went to the Germans and said, ‘Right. Now then. What was it? What were you chucking amongst the bomber stream?’ And the Germans said, ‘Us? It wasn’t us. We thought it was you.’ Because they had also seen them and damn it it turned out the Russians had seen them too over Warsaw. Remember there was that big kafuffle. Big punch up over Warsaw. They had seen them as well and thought it was the Germans who were at it and of course nobody was at it. So what they were I do not know. That was one of the mysteries of life. Anyway, on we went bombing guns and airfields and one wonderful little trip we bombed Boulogne. That was lovely. We opened our bomb doors going over Dover right, did the run up over the Channel, bombed Boulogne harbour. By the time the bomb doors were closed we were back over Dover again. Loved that. Could do with a lot of those things. So on we went until the next there was lots of other strange and wondrous and funny things happened I suppose but the next really outstanding operation was the 5th of June ’44 and it was we bombed a place called [Maisie] and [Maisie] was a code name for of course for guns on the beaches and it was opening D-Day. Now, I think we all knew there was something happening. Didn’t know. Well, yes of course we knew what was happening. It was about to happen but the point was when we turned back and flew across the Channel there was all sorts of kafuffles and things going way up on our right-hand side and that was where there was a diversionary raid going on across the Channel and I think from memory it was about four tenths cloud, something like that. And through the cloud, through the gaps in the clouds suddenly we came across the front of the armada of ships going across to France and it was the most incredible sight. There was a moon that night or, I don’t know if it was a full moon or not but it was light enough to see these ships and the wake, the white spew coming out from the bows and it went right the way back to Southampton this armada and it was I don’t know how wide, how many miles wide it was but it looked immense from us and it was very I don’t know what the word is. Moving, Exciting. I don’t know. There was quite a silence in the kite as we all looked down and saw this and obviously wished all the lads good luck. Rather you than us. But it really was something to see. A most moving sight. We went on after that of course and we were bombing all sorts of targets. Airfields and enemy strongholds and then we struck into it. there was a place [pause] I think that was a place Sterkrade. I think that was it. It was in the Ruhr anyway. I’m sure it was. Or [unclear]. Yeah. It was later. It was [unclear]. Anyway, and then we started doing daylight bombing for God’s sake. Frightened the life out of us. I see the first one we did was the 22nd of June and I can remember when we were told we were going on a daylight raid everybody was appalled. We said, ‘Are you sure?’ I mean daylight flying. That’s for birds and Americans and things like that. It’s not us. Not Bomber Command. But we did. We went out and what we were doing of course was we started to bomb the flying bomb sites and then we bombed Caen if that’s how to pronounce it. That’s how I’ve always pronounced it. Caen. That where the Army was being held up and we went and clobbered it. By Jesus didn’t we clobber it. That was on the 7th of July. And then on the 17th of July we went back again and we clobbered it again. This looks to me like night but it could, I think it was early morning really and I’ve got a note in my diary holed by flak and were we holed by flak? Yes we were holed by flak. What happened was we came back out of the, turned out of the target and we were supposed to follow a particular flight path back across the beaches and whatnot for landing. So Bob Rooney who was a flight lieutenant by this time, Bob decided to cut off a big corner which seemed a sensible thing to do and some German gunners were just waiting for some clown to do just that and by cringe they were accurate. And I can remember there was three bursts of shells coming closer and closer and closer and Bob turned in at the third one. Turned into the burst and where we had been — bang. That was the fourth one and we scuttled away and got back and Bob did the call around the crew to see if everybody was still in one piece and there was no word at all from Mac the rear gunner. There were several calls and then Bob said to me, ‘You’d better go back and see how Mac is and pull him out if necessary.’ And then there was a strangled shout from Mac, ‘It’s ok. It’s ok.’ What he’d done, he’d seen the three bursts and he thought oh my God the fourth one is for us, ducked his head down sharply, got it trapped under the gun, where the guns are and couldn’t get up again. He was a tall fella and there he was doubled up under the, with his head under the guns, heard us calling for him and couldn’t get out until he pulled himself free. And then [pause] so back we came home. By this time we weren’t operating every day or every night because Bob by this time was OC-A Flight and consequently as I say we weren’t operating on every one. The other thing that had happened we instead of flying in our beloved C-Charlie we were flying in all sorts of aircraft. The ones that really were available and it was ok but you know when you get used to an aeroplane you do like to keep, to keep flying it. Incidentally, C-Charlie was the one where we got badly holed over Caen or on our way home from there. And then back we went to Germany to Stuttgart and the Ruhr, [unclear] on the 25th of July. Or [unclear] and the Ruhr. That was a sod. Happy Valley they called it and the flak as you flew into it it looked as though it was impossible to fly through.
[telephone ringing]
I’ll have to stop again because there’s another phone call.
[recording paused]
Right. Back. Sorry about that. Another phone call. What was I saying? Oh yeah. The flak on in the Ruhr was, it looked like just a wall of flak. Of course what they did I’m telling you things you know already. They had these box barrage so that it started they weren’t firing at any particular target. They just fired into a box as it were and you had to fly through it. There was no way out of it and that was the night when I was standing up beside Bob and we were looking into this maelstrom of fire. That’s not a bad word is it? Maelstrom of fire. It could be. Anyway, and we looked at each other and silently sort of raised our eyebrows and then there was the most colossal crash right over the nose of our kite and the whole thing filled. The kite filled with that acrid smell of gunpowder explosive. You could smell it you know and when you could smell it by God its close and afterwards we were discussing this and we were told that we were singularly lucky. What had happened, the shell had come whistling up at a slight angle, whipped across the nose and exploded and because there is a blank spot underneath the shell where there is no flak our nose was stuck in that blank spot and weren’t we the lucky ones. Of dear. Anyway, so we went on and bombed all sorts of buzz bomb sites. And then came the 5th of August 1944. A day never to be forgotten. We finished our tour operating against a place called Forět de Nieppe came back, beat up the airfield, fired off all the verey cartridges I could lay my hands on and that was that. Now, you talk about the next bit. I’m sorry. I went on a bit there but there we are. If there is anything of any interest good. The next bit was setting up the squadron from C-Flight. Well, I can’t tell you much about that except that I was on it. We were in C-Flight 158 and we came across on the, whatever it was. January the whatever I said. 23rd I think. Something of the sort. You see we flew over anyway on January 23rd to, to Lec, to Leconfield and it was, I can tell you one thing, after Lissett where we lived in in Nissen huts and that winter was cold. Blimey it was cold and we came over to Leconfield and into civilised buildings and it was heaven. It was. God it was lovely. So that was it. We liked Lec right from the word go. Memorable individuals. Well, the trouble with aircrew, you know is that your own, your own crew were very memorable, very close and others of course you knew but after fifty years you look back and you struggle to see faces and names and things. There was one or two I suppose memorable individuals. Not aircrew. One I remember was Nell, the sergeant in charge of the Sergeant’s Mess and Nell was formidable. My God she was formidable and if you tried to sneak in, if you weren’t on ops and tried to sneak in and get a, get a meal, I don’t know what we called it, flying meal or whatever it was when we were not on op Nell was not to be fooled. I don’t know how she knew all the time but she knew and God help you if you tried to get in and away. There were one or two others. There was a flight sergeant in charge of the police on the gate. What the hell did we used to call him? I think we used to call him Himmler or something like that. No. I don’t remember much about him. Group Captain Waterhouse I remember well as I remember, going back a bit when I finished the tour of ops. We finished, not me and we had a party which was believe it or not terribly unusual for aircrew but we, and we looked upon the wine when it was red if you know what I mean. Got rat assed. That’s what I mean and we were I don’t know what, why this happened or where these bikes came from but we, there was a great batch of us. Not only our crew chasing around the square at Leconfield on the camp and pretending we were fighters and bombers and all sorts of, God I was somewhere near the front getting chased by others on bikes and I turned the handlebars too sharply, shot over the handlebars, landed on my head and cracked my ankle. Now, how anybody lands on their head and cracks their ankle is a mystery but that is what happened. Consequently, I had to be wheeled into the hospital the next morning when I tried to stand up. I was too drunk to notice it the night before quite honestly. Had it all strapped up and then my commission was coming through so, the interviews for it anyway and a couple of days or so later I hobbled in to see Group Captain Waterhouse on crutches. He looked at me [laughs] and said, ‘Hello,’ he said, ‘You weren’t like that when you finished your ops the other day. What have you been up to?’ And of course I concocted some story about stepping off the pavement and twisting my ankle but Groupie Waterhouse was not to be fooled although he pretended to be and it was all a bit embarrassing but and I had to go and see the air commodore or whatever they were called, the next one up the line again on crutches. All very terribly embarrassing. Now, other individuals, God I can’t remember any more. No. No. I can’t remember any. Leisure activities. Pubs remembered etcetera. Yes. I remember all the pubs in, down in what the hell was the name of the town? Breighton? Do I mean Breighton? There you go see. My memory. Fifty years. Anyway, the local. You know, the local town. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the names of them but they were all visited I think in turn. The, the locals, I don’t know. I can’t remember them welcoming, welcoming us with open arms. I don’t think they were hostile except for now and again if there had been a few night ops in succession they got a bit stroppy with the noise of us going and coming back. Particularly coming back in the early hours of the morning. Well, they didn’t like that too much but apart from that I don’t remember any hassles or anything. [pause] Thoughts on commencement of a tour. Exhilaration I think. Apprehension. Yes, apprehension. Exhilaration. No idea what it was all about I have to say but couldn’t wait to get going. We found out very quickly of course and I suppose like everybody else the, all the euphoria died away and was replaced by what? Sheer terror I suppose. No, I don’t know what it was but we carried on. But to say we were not afraid, anybody who said he wasn’t afraid seems to me to be either a liar or a fool and I didn’t meet many fools or many liars. I think everybody agreed afterwards you know. When you talked to them or you back and you meet any aircrew now and they’ll say, ‘God yes. I was blooming terrified.’ [pause] Thoughts on completion of a tour. Now that was exhilaration. Oh yes. My God that was lovely because you see although we missed the the very heavy casualties of Bomber Command nevertheless there was a steady toll all the time and I have a feeling, I’m not absolutely certain about this, I have a feeling now that we were the first crew to be, to finish a tour. A lot of the characters who came over from Leconfield either got the chop or else moved on elsewhere or something. I don’t remember any of the really old timers finishing a tour of ops there but then that’s memories again and maybe by your records you will see if that is so. But the completion of a tour was, was excellent. It was a kind of a reprieve I suppose you know. You suddenly thought thank God you know. I’m going to live.’ Which is stupid because one kept on flying. Some of the antics on, in fact the only time when I was ever in a crash was when I went back as a, to [pause] oh I can’t remember the number of the HCU [pause] Riccall and as an instructor. So it was, it wasn’t just as dicey as ops but it was at 1658, 1658 at Riccall it wasn’t that dicey but it was, it could be. [pause] Aspects of squadron life. Well, squadron life was alright. I mean we enjoyed it. Our crew, we had really when you think of it we had a fairly easy time. I mean I can’t remember parades and things except once. I’ll tell you a story on this and you could accept it or not. Squadron life was when 466 squadron, the Aussie squadron left Leconfield to go across to Driffield and it was decided that it would be a good idea to have a parade so [pause] oh that was me gulping a tea. So there we were on parade on the square at Leconfield and before we went on the activity was incredible. People looking for something to polish their buttons that had gone green. Shoe polish. We hadn’t got any. We didn’t bother about things like that. Anyway, we got there. Now, on 466 Squadron was a friend of mine called George. He was an engineer from New Cross. Now, George had been in a crash early on in his operational tour. I don’t know what happened to the rest of his crew but George was for a long time was in hospital for a start and then he was looking for a crew. He eventually got one and off he went again on the second phase of ops and he he said when he came back to fly on ops again he said he wasn’t going to cut his hair until he finished the tour. Now, he said it right at the beginning actually. Now, that would have been all right except for this crash and his sojourn in hospital and whatnot and his hair by the time he got back and was off again was something to behold. He did make a concession of having it cut around the ears and around the back. A sort of I suppose you’d call it a pudding basin cut. But of course he could never get his hat on because it just wouldn’t fit on top of this great mop of hair. Anyway, when we were on parade and George was there and he got his cap and it was stuck right on top of his head, perched and Group Captain Waterhouse walking down the line looking at people as they do stopped, did a double take when he passed George, turned back again, looked at him, put his forefinger under his hair. He said, ‘What’s all this?’ So George told him quite simply that he wasn’t going to have his hair cut until he finished the tour. So Group Captain Waterhouse walked around him, looked at him again and said, ‘Yes. Alright then. Hmmn. Yes, I hope to God it doesn’t take long.’ And off he went. And that was George and he did finish. He had to bale out actually on some op. They got hit and I was talking to the fellas over at 466 and I said, ‘Do you know if George got out?’ ‘Oh yes,’ they said, ‘George was first out. Straight out the back door.’ ‘How did you know it was George?’ I said. He said, ‘You couldn’t miss this figure hurtled out of the back of the kite and this great mop of hair going straight up in the air.’ So George got away with it and that was a memorable character but he wasn’t on 640 Squadron so I’ve probably wasted your time there. [pause] Recollections of Leconfield. Beverley. I said Breighton. Good Lord. That was the name of the town I was seeking. Beverley. Recollections of Leconfield. Well, Beverley was a nice little town wasn’t it and we certainly enjoyed our, our evenings down there and that was really that was about it. I can’t [pause] recollections of Leconfield. Well, I enjoyed it apart from the going on ops. I don’t know. I don’t think anybody actually going on ops but apart from that yes I enjoyed my time at Leconfield and I was very lucky to go back again later on with 51 Squadron when we turned it into Transport Command and it was like going home. I loved it. Beverley was, again I enjoyed Beverley. Now, loan of photographs. Well, I’m going to send you some photographs under separate cover. I haven’t got them with me right at the moment but I’ll shoot them up to you and then you can do what you like. You can use them or return them as you will. I can’t at this stage think of anything else to say, Bill. That’s a load of old waffle I know. Oh, I can tell you one thing. We had many bomb aimers because our first bloke Spanky Macfarlane got the sinus trouble so we flew with a lot of bomb aimers and two of them were memorable. Talking about memorable individuals. One of them was a fella called Jack Hendle. We used to call him Jimmy Hendle and Jimmy came to us because his crew, it was a flight and you probably have this in your records, Flight lieutenant, no. Flight Sergeant Vickery. Ted Vickery who was a smashing bloke. An Aussie. Not very good at landing Halifaxes but apart from that a nice bloke. But they had to bale out over Durham way I think it was one night when they came back and the crew was split up and Jimmy came and flew with us for quite a long time and he was quite a character. A very nice bloke. I have given him your name and address and you might be hearing from him, and the other bloke, the other bomb aimer who flew with us was a fella called Flight Lieutenant Hill, Tubby Hill and Tubby Hill used to, he was a scruffy individual but a charming [laughs] he was a lovely man. Had been in the Air Force before the war and he was on the first raid, the first real raid of the war. I think it was Kiel or somewhere. It was one of those places that he was in one of the Wimpy squadron and history tells us that most of them got shot down. It was terrible casualties then and we said to Tubby, ‘Well, how come you got away with it, Tubby?’ He said, ‘Because our skipper — ’ he said, ‘Was a crafty bugger. As people started to get shot down he inserted them in the middle of the it was a gaggle really. That’s the way they flew. In a gaggle. He said he got stuck in the middle. ‘By the time they got to us they’d run out of ammunition.’ Could be so but Tubby was a great character who any thought of going around again if we didn’t get the bombing right was our [laughs] just didn’t sit well with Tubby. I remember one night we went in and, ‘Left. Left. Steady.’ The usual stuff and he wasn’t quite lined up or he couldn’t see. Something had happened so Tubby said, ‘Hold on. I can’t. I haven’t quite got it.’ And Bob Rooney [laughs] typical Aussie said, ‘Ok, we’ll go around again.’ The reply from, from Tubby Hill was, ‘Bombs gone.’ There was no messing about with Tubby. He wasn’t going around again for anybody. But there we go. There are little reminiscences of long ago. If there’s anything else I can do for you give me shout. Otherwise cheerio for now.
[telephone ringing]
I’ve got to stop. Telephone. Damn.
[recording paused]
Right. Sorry, telephone interrupted there. What was I saying? Yes. We were coming back from somewhere in France and these objects shot around. Anyway, we reported back to intelligence when we got back and they didn’t seem all that interested but it was a bit startling. I can’t remember now whether anybody else had seen them or not. Maybe it was one of these things you kept your trap shut if you saw something a bit out of the way because people thought you were going flak happy. Anyway, years and years later I was reading a book called, “Flying Saucers Have Landed ,” and to my astonishment in this book there was a chapter devoted to these weird objects flying around in the bomber streams and apparently other people had reported them. When the war finished apparently the RAF intelligence people went to the Germans and said, ‘Right. Now then. What was it? What were you chucking amongst the bomber stream?’ And the Germans said, ‘Us? It wasn’t us. We thought it was you.’ Because they had also seen them and damn it it turned out the Russians had seen them too over Warsaw. Remember there was that big kafuffle. Big punch up over Warsaw. They had seen them as well and thought it was the Germans who were at it and of course nobody was at it. So what they were I do not know. That was one of the mysteries of life. Anyway, on we went bombing guns and airfields and one wonderful little trip we bombed Boulogne. That was lovely. We opened our bomb doors going over Dover right, did the run up over the Channel, bombed Boulogne harbour. By the time the bomb doors were closed we were back over Dover again. Loved that. Could do with a lot of those things. So on we went until the next there was lots of other strange and wondrous and funny things happened I suppose but the next really outstanding operation was the 5th of June ’44 and it was we bombed a place called [Maisie] and [Maisie] was a code name for of course for guns on the beaches and it was opening D-Day. Now, I think we all knew there was something happening. Didn’t know. Well, yes of course we knew what was happening. It was about to happen but the point was when we turned back and flew across the Channel there was all sorts of kafuffles and things going way up on our right-hand side and that was where there was a diversionary raid going on across the Channel and I think from memory it was about four tenths cloud, something like that. And through the cloud, through the gaps in the clouds suddenly we came across the front of the armada of ships going across to France and it was the most incredible sight. There was a moon that night or, I don’t know if it was a full moon or not but it was light enough to see these ships and the wake, the white spew coming out from the bows and it went right the way back to Southampton this armada and it was I don’t know how wide, how many miles wide it was but it looked immense from us and it was very I don’t know what the word is. Moving, Exciting. I don’t know. There was quite a silence in the kite as we all looked down and saw this and obviously wished all the lads good luck. Rather you than us. But it really was something to see. A most moving sight. We went on after that of course and we were bombing all sorts of targets. Airfields and enemy strongholds and then we struck into it. there was a place [pause] I think that was a place Sterkrade. I think that was it. It was in the Ruhr anyway. I’m sure it was. Or [unclear]. Yeah. It was later. It was [unclear]. Anyway, and then we started doing daylight bombing for God’s sake. Frightened the life out of us. I see the first one we did was the 22nd of June and I can remember when we were told we were going on a daylight raid everybody was appalled. We said, ‘Are you sure?’ I mean daylight flying. That’s for birds and Americans and things like that. It’s not us. Not Bomber Command. But we did. We went out and what we were doing of course was we started to bomb the flying bomb sites and then we bombed Caen if that’s how to pronounce it. That’s how I’ve always pronounced it. Caen. That where the Army was being held up and we went and clobbered it. By Jesus didn’t we clobber it. That was on the 7th of July. And then on the 17th of July we went back again and we clobbered it again. This looks to me like night but it could, I think it was early morning really and I’ve got a note in my diary holed by flak and were we holed by flak? Yes we were holed by flak. What happened was we came back out of the, turned out of the target and we were supposed to follow a particular flight path back across the beaches and whatnot for landing. So Bob Rooney who was a flight lieutenant by this time, Bob decided to cut off a big corner which seemed a sensible thing to do and some German gunners were just waiting for some clown to do just that and by cringe they were accurate. And I can remember there was three bursts of shells coming closer and closer and closer and Bob turned in at the third one. Turned into the burst and where we had been — bang. That was the fourth one and we scuttled away and got back and Bob did the call around the crew to see if everybody was still in one piece and there was no word at all from Mac the rear gunner. There were several calls and then Bob said to me, ‘You’d better go back and see how Mac is and pull him out if necessary.’ And then there was a strangled shout from Mac, ‘It’s ok. It’s ok.’ What he’d done, he’d seen the three bursts and he thought oh my God the fourth one is for us, ducked his head down sharply, got it trapped under the gun, where the guns are and couldn’t get up again. He was a tall fella and there he was doubled up under the, with his head under the guns, heard us calling for him and couldn’t get out until he pulled himself free. And then [pause] so back we came home. By this time we weren’t operating every day or every night because Bob by this time was OC-A Flight and consequently as I say we weren’t operating on every one. The other thing that had happened we instead of flying in our beloved C-Charlie we were flying in all sorts of aircraft. The ones that really were available and it was ok but you know when you get used to an aeroplane you do like to keep, to keep flying it. Incidentally, C-Charlie was the one where we got badly holed over Caen or on our way home from there. And then back we went to Germany to Stuttgart and the Ruhr, [unclear] on the 25th of July. Or [unclear] and the Ruhr. That was a sod. Happy Valley they called it and the flak as you flew into it it looked as though it was impossible to fly through.
[telephone ringing]
I’ll have to stop again because there’s another phone call.
[recording paused]
Right. Back. Sorry about that. Another phone call. What was I saying? Oh yeah. The flak on in the Ruhr was, it looked like just a wall of flak. Of course what they did I’m telling you things you know already. They had these box barrage so that it started they weren’t firing at any particular target. They just fired into a box as it were and you had to fly through it. There was no way out of it and that was the night when I was standing up beside Bob and we were looking into this maelstrom of fire. That’s not a bad word is it? Maelstrom of fire. It could be. Anyway, and we looked at each other and silently sort of raised our eyebrows and then there was the most colossal crash right over the nose of our kite and the whole thing filled. The kite filled with that acrid smell of gunpowder explosive. You could smell it you know and when you could smell it by God its close and afterwards we were discussing this and we were told that we were singularly lucky. What had happened, the shell had come whistling up at a slight angle, whipped across the nose and exploded and because there is a blank spot underneath the shell where there is no flak our nose was stuck in that blank spot and weren’t we the lucky ones. Of dear. Anyway, so we went on and bombed all sorts of buzz bomb sites. And then came the 5th of August 1944. A day never to be forgotten. We finished our tour operating against a place called Forět de Nieppe came back, beat up the airfield, fired off all the verey cartridges I could lay my hands on and that was that. Now, you talk about the next bit. I’m sorry. I went on a bit there but there we are. If there is anything of any interest good. The next bit was setting up the squadron from C-Flight. Well, I can’t tell you much about that except that I was on it. We were in C-Flight 158 and we came across on the, whatever it was. January the whatever I said. 23rd I think. Something of the sort. You see we flew over anyway on January 23rd to, to Lec, to Leconfield and it was, I can tell you one thing, after Lissett where we lived in in Nissen huts and that winter was cold. Blimey it was cold and we came over to Leconfield and into civilised buildings and it was heaven. It was. God it was lovely. So that was it. We liked Lec right from the word go. Memorable individuals. Well, the trouble with aircrew, you know is that your own, your own crew were very memorable, very close and others of course you knew but after fifty years you look back and you struggle to see faces and names and things. There was one or two I suppose memorable individuals. Not aircrew. One I remember was Nell, the sergeant in charge of the Sergeant’s Mess and Nell was formidable. My God she was formidable and if you tried to sneak in, if you weren’t on ops and tried to sneak in and get a, get a meal, I don’t know what we called it, flying meal or whatever it was when we were not on op Nell was not to be fooled. I don’t know how she knew all the time but she knew and God help you if you tried to get in and away. There were one or two others. There was a flight sergeant in charge of the police on the gate. What the hell did we used to call him? I think we used to call him Himmler or something like that. No. I don’t remember much about him. Group Captain Waterhouse I remember well as I remember, going back a bit when I finished the tour of ops. We finished, not me and we had a party which was believe it or not terribly unusual for aircrew but we, and we looked upon the wine when it was red if you know what I mean. Got rat assed. That’s what I mean and we were I don’t know what, why this happened or where these bikes came from but we, there was a great batch of us. Not only our crew chasing around the square at Leconfield on the camp and pretending we were fighters and bombers and all sorts of, God I was somewhere near the front getting chased by others on bikes and I turned the handlebars too sharply, shot over the handlebars, landed on my head and cracked my ankle. Now, how anybody lands on their head and cracks their ankle is a mystery but that is what happened. Consequently, I had to be wheeled into the hospital the next morning when I tried to stand up. I was too drunk to notice it the night before quite honestly. Had it all strapped up and then my commission was coming through so, the interviews for it anyway and a couple of days or so later I hobbled in to see Group Captain Waterhouse on crutches. He looked at me [laughs] and said, ‘Hello,’ he said, ‘You weren’t like that when you finished your ops the other day. What have you been up to?’ And of course I concocted some story about stepping off the pavement and twisting my ankle but Groupie Waterhouse was not to be fooled although he pretended to be and it was all a bit embarrassing but and I had to go and see the air commodore or whatever they were called, the next one up the line again on crutches. All very terribly embarrassing. Now, other individuals, God I can’t remember any more. No. No. I can’t remember any. Leisure activities. Pubs remembered etcetera. Yes. I remember all the pubs in, down in what the hell was the name of the town? Breighton? Do I mean Breighton? There you go see. My memory. Fifty years. Anyway, the local. You know, the local town. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the names of them but they were all visited I think in turn. The, the locals, I don’t know. I can’t remember them welcoming, welcoming us with open arms. I don’t think they were hostile except for now and again if there had been a few night ops in succession they got a bit stroppy with the noise of us going and coming back. Particularly coming back in the early hours of the morning. Well, they didn’t like that too much but apart from that I don’t remember any hassles or anything. [pause] Thoughts on commencement of a tour. Exhilaration I think. Apprehension. Yes, apprehension. Exhilaration. No idea what it was all about I have to say but couldn’t wait to get going. We found out very quickly of course and I suppose like everybody else the, all the euphoria died away and was replaced by what? Sheer terror I suppose. No, I don’t know what it was but we carried on. But to say we were not afraid, anybody who said he wasn’t afraid seems to me to be either a liar or a fool and I didn’t meet many fools or many liars. I think everybody agreed afterwards you know. When you talked to them or you back and you meet any aircrew now and they’ll say, ‘God yes. I was blooming terrified.’ [pause] Thoughts on completion of a tour. Now that was exhilaration. Oh yes. My God that was lovely because you see although we missed the the very heavy casualties of Bomber Command nevertheless there was a steady toll all the time and I have a feeling, I’m not absolutely certain about this, I have a feeling now that we were the first crew to be, to finish a tour. A lot of the characters who came over from Leconfield either got the chop or else moved on elsewhere or something. I don’t remember any of the really old timers finishing a tour of ops there but then that’s memories again and maybe by your records you will see if that is so. But the completion of a tour was, was excellent. It was a kind of a reprieve I suppose you know. You suddenly thought thank God you know. I’m going to live.’ Which is stupid because one kept on flying. Some of the antics on, in fact the only time when I was ever in a crash was when I went back as a, to [pause] oh I can’t remember the number of the HCU [pause] Riccall and as an instructor. So it was, it wasn’t just as dicey as ops but it was at 1658, 1658 at Riccall it wasn’t that dicey but it was, it could be. [pause] Aspects of squadron life. Well, squadron life was alright. I mean we enjoyed it. Our crew, we had really when you think of it we had a fairly easy time. I mean I can’t remember parades and things except once. I’ll tell you a story on this and you could accept it or not. Squadron life was when 466 squadron, the Aussie squadron left Leconfield to go across to Driffield and it was decided that it would be a good idea to have a parade so [pause] oh that was me gulping a tea. So there we were on parade on the square at Leconfield and before we went on the activity was incredible. People looking for something to polish their buttons that had gone green. Shoe polish. We hadn’t got any. We didn’t bother about things like that. Anyway, we got there. Now, on 466 Squadron was a friend of mine called George. He was an engineer from New Cross. Now, George had been in a crash early on in his operational tour. I don’t know what happened to the rest of his crew but George was for a long time was in hospital for a start and then he was looking for a crew. He eventually got one and off he went again on the second phase of ops and he he said when he came back to fly on ops again he said he wasn’t going to cut his hair until he finished the tour. Now, he said it right at the beginning actually. Now, that would have been all right except for this crash and his sojourn in hospital and whatnot and his hair by the time he got back and was off again was something to behold. He did make a concession of having it cut around the ears and around the back. A sort of I suppose you’d call it a pudding basin cut. But of course he could never get his hat on because it just wouldn’t fit on top of this great mop of hair. Anyway, when we were on parade and George was there and he got his cap and it was stuck right on top of his head, perched and Group Captain Waterhouse walking down the line looking at people as they do stopped, did a double take when he passed George, turned back again, looked at him, put his forefinger under his hair. He said, ‘What’s all this?’ So George told him quite simply that he wasn’t going to have his hair cut until he finished the tour. So Group Captain Waterhouse walked around him, looked at him again and said, ‘Yes. Alright then. Hmmn. Yes, I hope to God it doesn’t take long.’ And off he went. And that was George and he did finish. He had to bale out actually on some op. They got hit and I was talking to the fellas over at 466 and I said, ‘Do you know if George got out?’ ‘Oh yes,’ they said, ‘George was first out. Straight out the back door.’ ‘How did you know it was George?’ I said. He said, ‘You couldn’t miss this figure hurtled out of the back of the kite and this great mop of hair going straight up in the air.’ So George got away with it and that was a memorable character but he wasn’t on 640 Squadron so I’ve probably wasted your time there. [pause] Recollections of Leconfield. Beverley. I said Breighton. Good Lord. That was the name of the town I was seeking. Beverley. Recollections of Leconfield. Well, Beverley was a nice little town wasn’t it and we certainly enjoyed our, our evenings down there and that was really that was about it. I can’t [pause] recollections of Leconfield. Well, I enjoyed it apart from the going on ops. I don’t know. I don’t think anybody actually going on ops but apart from that yes I enjoyed my time at Leconfield and I was very lucky to go back again later on with 51 Squadron when we turned it into Transport Command and it was like going home. I loved it. Beverley was, again I enjoyed Beverley. Now, loan of photographs. Well, I’m going to send you some photographs under separate cover. I haven’t got them with me right at the moment but I’ll shoot them up to you and then you can do what you like. You can use them or return them as you will. I can’t at this stage think of anything else to say, Bill. That’s a load of old waffle I know. Oh, I can tell you one thing. We had many bomb aimers because our first bloke Spanky Macfarlane got the sinus trouble so we flew with a lot of bomb aimers and two of them were memorable. Talking about memorable individuals. One of them was a fella called Jack Hendle. We used to call him Jimmy Hendle and Jimmy came to us because his crew, it was a flight and you probably have this in your records, Flight lieutenant, no. Flight Sergeant Vickery. Ted Vickery who was a smashing bloke. An Aussie. Not very good at landing Halifaxes but apart from that a nice bloke. But they had to bale out over Durham way I think it was one night when they came back and the crew was split up and Jimmy came and flew with us for quite a long time and he was quite a character. A very nice bloke. I have given him your name and address and you might be hearing from him, and the other bloke, the other bomb aimer who flew with us was a fella called Flight Lieutenant Hill, Tubby Hill and Tubby Hill used to, he was a scruffy individual but a charming [laughs] he was a lovely man. Had been in the Air Force before the war and he was on the first raid, the first real raid of the war. I think it was Kiel or somewhere. It was one of those places that he was in one of the Wimpy squadron and history tells us that most of them got shot down. It was terrible casualties then and we said to Tubby, ‘Well, how come you got away with it, Tubby?’ He said, ‘Because our skipper — ’ he said, ‘Was a crafty bugger. As people started to get shot down he inserted them in the middle of the it was a gaggle really. That’s the way they flew. In a gaggle. He said he got stuck in the middle. ‘By the time they got to us they’d run out of ammunition.’ Could be so but Tubby was a great character who any thought of going around again if we didn’t get the bombing right was our [laughs] just didn’t sit well with Tubby. I remember one night we went in and, ‘Left. Left. Steady.’ The usual stuff and he wasn’t quite lined up or he couldn’t see. Something had happened so Tubby said, ‘Hold on. I can’t. I haven’t quite got it.’ And Bob Rooney [laughs] typical Aussie said, ‘Ok, we’ll go around again.’ The reply from, from Tubby Hill was, ‘Bombs gone.’ There was no messing about with Tubby. He wasn’t going around again for anybody. But there we go. There are little reminiscences of long ago. If there’s anything else I can do for you give me shout. Otherwise cheerio for now.
Collection
Citation
“Interview with Ian Wilkie,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed October 8, 2026, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/58044.