Interview with Maureen Shirley Lill
Title
Interview with Maureen Shirley Lill
Description
Maureen Lill grew up in Louth during the war. She recalls the one night when a bomb destroyed the house of her school friend. Her father was in the Army and she didn’t see him for the duration of the war after he was called up. He had begun to read aloud to her Alice in Wonderland and she refused to allow anyone but him to read it to her although that meant waiting until the end of the war. As an adult she married the son of the owners of the local pub, the Royal Oak which had been a popular meeting place for RAF personnel during the war. She inherited the Guest Book from the pub which had been signed by aircrew based at nearby RAF Manby and RAF Ludford Magna.
Creator
Date
2025-04-23
Coverage
Language
Type
Format
00:45:04 Audio Recording
Publisher
Rights
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
ALillMS250423
PLillMS2501
Transcription
ML: I’m all yours.
AH: This is an interview for the International Bomber Command Centre Archive. The interviewee is Maureen Lill and the interviewer is Anna Hoyles and the interview is taking place in Little Cawthorpe. Could you tell me when and where you were born?
ML: I was born in Cleethorpes in 1936 in Harrington Street. Yeah.
AH: And what, do you have any memories about the war?
ML: Yes. I do because you see I was three when the war started and my father was posted to India. My mother was working so although I had to be at school during the week during the weekends I was put on one of those ghastly double decker buses through to Grimsby to Brighowgate Station where my grandfather met me, took me across to the Market Place and got me on a trolley bus and I went down to Cleethorpes and I spent Saturday and Sunday with my grandparents and two of my cousins. And on the Sunday it was reversed and I came home and my memories of that are being travel sick all the [pause] all the way [laughs] I hated it. I loathed it. And Brighowgate, Brighowgate Bus Station oh God was terrible. Yes. So those were my wartime years. I went to Kidgate School. My father had been moved to Louth in ’39 and for the, what was then the Radio Relay Service. The Radio Relay Service was, had big radios stations and from there you could hire a wireless unit which had the light or the home programmes on it and you paid one and nine pence a week for the, to use this and my father managed that. But he was actually quite a mathematician. He was also very interested in radio. So when he was working for Radio Relay in Cleethorpes which was just before I was born he, that’s why he went there because he was a radio engineer and of course during the war he was sent to India because of his knowledge of radios.
AH: So you were living in Louth during the war?
ML: Yes. In 1939 I think we must have come there. Yes. And yes, Louth was, the centre part was almost like it is now. But I do remember Moore’s the butcher. There were two Moore’s, the butchers and a Woolworths and Godsmarks and even Renshaw’s and all the old established firms. Yes. So, but, but Louth was, I can’t, [pause] I can remember they bombed. The night they bombed the Malt Kiln and I can remember that. That and I can remember also when I went I went to Kidgate School and when I was five and during that first few, well few weeks I formed a friendship in the kindergarten school of a girl called Mary Janes and she’d only been at school four or five weeks and the Germans bombed the house. And her sister was Margaret Ottoway who was the Mayor of Louth and it was Margaret’s sister Mary that was at school with me and was killed within weeks of [pause] Yeah, of [pause] So I remember that and the strange thing is I can remember being taken to see the house which now you just think you wouldn’t inflict that on a child would you? But I did. But I was, and at school, Kidgate School I had a wonderful headmaster called Mr Latter. He was an older because by that time all the younger teachers, male teachers had been sent to fight in the war and the older ones had come back and there was this marvellous gentleman called Percy Latter and he was headmaster of Kidgate School when I was there and he was absolutely wonderful. My first teacher was a Miss Giddings who married Dawson the accountant in Louth. Yes. So those are my. I can remember sirens. I can’t remember much else about the war because you see I was only three when it started.
AH: Do you remember how you felt when you saw the bombed house?
ML: No. It wouldn’t have meant anything to a five year old would it? You just, it was, yeah and my, I suppose my mother was very good. She didn’t flap about or, and so I didn’t. But I can remember I wasn’t even told that Mary had been killed. Just that she wouldn’t be at school.
[recording interrupted]
ML: So that was it. Every day I went. Left. I lived in Upgate and I walked across the old pit, down the side of the cattle market, along Newmarket, down Cinder Lane to Kidgate School and you couldn’t do that now with a six year old could you? No. But I did and that was my life and then so that was Monday to Friday. Saturday morning I was put on this bus through to Grimsby and Sunday I came back and Monday it started all over again. But there was nothing and I did oh something and I haven’t said this. I remembered while I was there there was, and it’s where, oh it’s not Wilkos anymore is it? It’s got to be, what’s the new —
AH: I think it’s called B&M.
ML: Yes. Where that is used to be a hotel and there was an archway where in the old days all they, they used to take all the traps and carriages and horses and things through there and I was taken to dance classes by Miss Hawley and Miss Snell and they, and taught me tap dancing. And I didn’t want to tap dance. I would rather have done ballet. But tap dancing now I would give my back teeth to do some tap dancing. But yes. Miss Hawley and Miss Snell and they were in those, the back region of the hotel. What is it when you are teetotal?
AH: Temperance.
ML: Temperance Hotel. It was a Temperance Hotel which is now next door to —
[recording interrupted]
ML: Yeah. So that was, yes Miss Hawley I’d forgotten about that Mike. I didn’t tell you about Miss Hawle] and Miss Snell. And I can still do the dance, ‘Wilhemina is plump and round.’ I can still do the whole thing.
AH: And did you enjoy it even though you would rather have done ballet?
ML: Yes. Yes. Yes, and now God I wish I could do. I love tap dancing. Those tap dance routines in the shows and things are wonderful aren’t they? Do you tap dance Mike?
[pause]
AH: You said your headmaster was wonderful.
ML: Yes.
AH: How was, in what way was he wonderful?
ML: He was very strict. Mind you all the teachers were. You didn’t, you didn’t play about. You had respect for them and you [pause] but he was interested in you. He would meet you in the corridors and, ‘How are you doing?’ And, and one of the things that happened in those days I was one of the first people to take the Eleven-plus. What was it called then? The [pause] what was it called? Just the Eleven-plus wasn’t it? And if you passed you see you had to then go to King Edward for an interview to see which form they would put you in and I’d taken my Eleven-plus and passed it and I can remember being in one of those corridors of Kidgate School and Mr Latter came down and said, ‘Now, Maureen, well done. You’ve got through to King Edward. Now, what are you going to tell them you want to do when you leave school?’ So I said, ‘I’d like to be a model.’ And I can remember the intake of breath because model had a total different meaning I suppose in those days. So he said, ‘What do you think a model does?’ So I explained what I thought and he said, ‘Well, I would suggest that you don’t tell them you want to be a model. You tell them you want to be a mannequin.’ Which is, you know. So that that was fine and he was a caring man. He did care for his pupils. So I went to my interview at King Edward and I walked into the school hall and there was all the school governors sat down there including and the headmistress Miss Figgis was her name. As I got there the very kind gentleman on the end said to me, ‘And what would you like to do when you leave school, Maureen?’ So I said, ‘I want to be a mannequin.’ Remembering what Mr Latter had said and so he said, ‘Right. Do you know what a mannequin does?’ ‘Oh yes.’ ‘Would you like to show me?’ Now, many years I did belong to Playgoers. I suppose it was the actress in me so I walked up and down the school hall much to Miss Figgis’ the headmistress’s disgust and came back and he said, ‘Thank you. That’s fine.’ And I have to tell you I married that man’s son many years later [laughs] He was one of the school governors. Lawrence. Yeah. Yeah.
AH: Gosh how amazing.
ML: Yeah. Yes, it was good. So, and I was there. I’m not a sporty person. I hated hockey because it was rough. Yeah. I quite liked tennis and I quite liked netball but I didn’t like the, hated hockey. Yes. So but we had some superb teachers there but Miss Figgis was, Miss Figgis was there at King Edward the same time as Hedley Warr was at the boy’s school and they were both brilliant. Miss Figgis was a Latin scholar. A brilliant, she was very clever but she should never, no I mustn’t say this but she was in charge of teenage girls. Yes. So it was. But yes I stayed there until I left.
AH: And what did you do after you left?
ML: I, first of all I was wanted to teach blind children and I went to Cheltenham and it was the time, unhappy experiences with the GIs and things down there and I in less than a year I came back. And I was asked if I’d like to go into Lloyds Bank and I went into Lloyds Bank where I stayed until I got married and had children.
AH: And when did you get married?
ML: ’58. 1958. Yes.
AH: And going back to the war do you remember anything about the food and rationing?
ML: Not really. You see, I was three when it started so I never, I know when my father came back I went through his kit bag to see if there was a banana because I thought I might like a banana. And there wasn’t one there so I was disappointed. No. There wasn’t. You went down on a Saturday or during the week and everything was rationed but I suppose it was my life. I’d never known any difference. Yeah.
AH: Do you remember when it stopped? Things stopped being rationed.
ML: Not really. I mean I’m not a sweet tooth so sweets didn’t. But I understand sweets didn’t come off the ration until ’47, ’48. They were later wasn’t it? Yeah. Yes. No, I can’t. I can’t remember. There was Frank Moore, the butcher which is where, I don’t know what the shop is now in Mercer Row. But there were Toplis’s and yeah there were all the old shops. Godsmarks, Toplis’s, Evan Renshaw’s. Yeah.
AH: And was your father away for the whole war?
ML: He came back in 1946. Yes and so I was, didn’t see him for five years.
AH: And do you remember what it was like when he came back? How you felt?
ML: Well, I suppose there was euphoric wasn’t it? It would be the morning he arrived back but he had malaria. He’d got malaria and so he was ill for quite a while. But then he went back to Radio Relay which then became Radio Rentals in Louth and life just, no life just I suppose if I say anything to my parents it’s thank you for letting it just be normal. I do remember being told after the war that the reason St James wasn’t hit was that the German pilots could use it as a beacon to line up for Grimsby and Hull docks. So Louth spire wasn’t [pause] —
AH: And what did your mother do during the war?
ML: She worked for Eric [Vanplugh?] at Evan Renshaw’s. Yes. Yes. She was there a long time. Yeah.
AH: And what other connection do you have with the Royal Oak? The pub.
ML: I married the son of the owners. Yes.
AH: And where did you meet him?
ML: At Louth Playgoers. There was, because while I was in Lloyds Bank I was introduced to Louth Playgoers by other members of the staff there and I went there and I did a read through one night of a play. There was a gentleman who was the clerk to the Rural District Council in Cannon Street, Gilbert Pitt who lived in St Mary’s Lane and he used to direct/produce for our Playgoers and he did a play and I went to his house one night for a read through and John was there. John was playing the part of a very bewhiskered very elderly old admiral and I was playing the young girl who had written a book. And so and it was raining on the way out and he said did I want a lift home and I, yeah and we were great friends for a long time. Yes. And because I was sort of attached to somebody else at that point but then it got more serious and yeah I married him two years later. My mother-in-law Winnie at the pub was wonderful because I used to go over there regularly obviously and she was, I adored her.
AH: And when did your parents in law come to the pub?
ML: 1937. LJ had come to visit to look at a fireplace in Burnside, a big house there and to, as an example of one he wished to put in his aunt’s house in Louth who had been, it had been a lightning bolt had blown it out and he came and had a look at this fireplace in Burnside. And afterwards he went over to the pub and the landlord there said, told him that he was leaving. He had given in his notice. So LJ which we called him got in his car, went over to Alford to Colonel Winch, Soulby, Sons and Winch and said, ‘I understand the pub is coming up. I’d like to be considered.’ You see. And Colonel Winch said, ‘Well, I’ve only just got the letter. How did you know?’ And he said well the landlord had told him. So he went. He came over and the pub was, well Mike knows there was it was nothing like it is today and they, my mother-in-law they were very, well she was very artistic like her granddaughter and they did do the house up so, and it got quite a reputation. And LJ just used the pub then as, well during that time he was in 1937 he was mayor two years running. Yes. Yeah. He was. But then he took over and it became his, it was his life. It was his. Yeah. He had some very interesting clients. The doctors, the farmers, the vets they were all. Yeah. They were local. Very local but he expected a certain amount of decorum. Nobody would have been allowed in without a shirt at all or shorts. They had to be properly dressed and, yeah.
AH: Have you, sorry?
ML: I was quite scared of him actually. Now, now I know. Now, I’ve done research into his life I understand why he was. But he was a very clever man. Yeah.
AH: And where did he come from originally?
ML: He was born in Louth. Yes. The family are Louth people. Yes. And my mother-in-law was from Nottingham.
AH: And what did he, what did he do in the First World War?
ML: Who?
AH: Your father-in-law.
ML: Oh, that was, that’s the guy who was shot and oh sorry. Yes, I didn’t tell you did I? He was, he and his brother enlisted on the first day of the war and he was sent out to the Dardanelles where he got dysentery and he was very seriously ill there and took him quite a long time I think to recover. From hospital ship back to hospital and then he was sent back to England. And then he recovered from that and was sent back to France to a village called Le Boeuf. And in Le Boeuf he took his men over the top and he was shot through the stomach and we all, well not me I wasn’t there but they thought he had died but the French had picked him up and taken him to a station and he recovered. Came back to England to recuperate and married my mother-in-law in Nottingham and then went back and then he was gassed. So he came back and I don’t, he eventually finished up in Humberston. He was a commanding officer in Humberston in one of the farms there and he helped the civilians and things there before he came back into Louth to the shop. Lill’s of Louth. That was his father’s shop. His father Jimmy Lill who is, what’s the shop now? It’s got, “Lill’s of Louth,” on the baker’s shop opposite Stevensons, the greengrocers.
AH: Cooplands.
ML: Cooplands. Yes. If you look in there it’s got, “Lill’s of Louth,” and that was Jimmy Lill was LJ’s father who, yeah.
AH: And had he ever ran a pub before?
ML: No. No.
AH: Do you know why they decided to?
ML: I have no idea. I suppose, as I say I was [pause] he was quite a big man, an imposing man. No. I never. I suppose it was during those days you took what was offered. Yeah.
AH: And what made you feel afraid of him?
ML: He was not a communicative person with young people. But he, he was a great wag with his friends and things and there are some quite wild stories. Well, not wild stories but yeah he, he had great, Dr Russell who was a great friend and Mr Bill Wright, a farmer and Barry Stocks the vet. They were all big big mates. Big friends. And I can remember at one point and I was married there was a vicar of Althorp, the reverend and he had a big black dog called Buddy who used to come to the pub every night and he used to come down from, Legby he used to come Legbourne way and get to the end of the road here and let Buddy out and then race Buddy along to see who could get to the pub first. Yes. Reverend Austin Lee. That’s right. His name was. Yeah. And Buddy. Yeah.
AH: And was your mother-in-law a different sort of person?
ML: Very artistic. Very sociable. Yeah. I mean the pub was, she was the one who did the flowers. There were always flower arrangements there and yes she was a wonderful person. A lovely person. Yeah. We call this one little Winnie here.
AH: And what happened at the Royal Oak during the war?
ML: Well, the pilots from Manby could, Manby was close enough to the pub for the pilots and the bombers and the aimers and navigators whatever they would walk across the field picking mushrooms as they came, bring them to John’s mother who used to cook them for them. But during the war they, the pilots spent a lot of time, they used it almost as their clubhouse and yeah they were the pilots. They didn’t know. They’d come here for a drink because they didn’t know whether they would even be here the next day and they went out. Am I allowed to [pause] refill bottles outside and took those refill bottles and bombed Germany with them the next day. Yes. So they did. But the stories and this is when they were wonderful. They made a lot of friends. This guy who was, John always reckoned he was a natural pilot. His name was Scrymgeour-Wedderburn and his family, he was a laird up in Scotland and he used to come and visit us many years later when John and I were here and he brought his friend who was Sandy Gregg whose son became a cricket captain. Was it England or Australia? England was it? Yeah. But they were. Yes. So, and the number of people. Yes and we’ve had, I think my mother-in-law was a very sociable person but we all are. We like parties. We like, we like family get togethers.
AH: And this man Scrimshaw what was he doing during the war?
ML: Well, he was a pilot, a navigator I don’t know what he was. I think they were part of the time stationed at Ludford but John, my husband always told me that Scrym was actually a natural pilot. He could get in any plane and just fly it because it was instinctive. Yeah. But he was a big man, yes. We’ve got photographs. I think I’ve shown [pause] yeah we’ve had and I was lucky enough that they would let these, the friendships carried on afterwards yes. But Scrym was certainly a pilot. I don’t know whether he was a pilot, navigator. I think he was a pilot.
MC: Just to, just to say that he was actually a flight lieutenant and he was a —
ML: Pilot.
MC: A crew leader. Yeah.
ML: A crew.
MC: He had a crew of eight in many of his missions over to Germany.
[recording paused]
MC: A crew of seven generally speaking but they put eight, eight in the Lancasters from stations in this area because they wanted the extra crew person on board who could speak German. Just in case. But Scrymgeour-Wedderburn made a name for himself as an outlandish character but as Maureen said was an absolutely natural leader of men and held no fear of anything. Hugely courageous and was compared to one of his ancestors from around the twelfth century who apparently once seized the banner of one of the Scottish kings and marched across the River Spey with it in his [laughs] in his arms. And they were said by his relatives that Scrymgeour-Wedderburn was exactly like that ancestor and had that sort of courage.
AH: And did he throw a party?
ML: If you pardon me Mike knows about this because this came from —
MC: Not that I was there but at the end of one, maybe his second tour which again was unusual because not many people lasted as long as that he had a massive, the fact that people in his crew wrote about this legendary party that he had which was at the [unclear] and he only had it for the crew of eight and various other people in there. And he apparently footed the bill for the whole party and that made a huge name for himself in the pub itself because of that and the pilots and the crew who came to the pub —
ML: Adored him.
MC: Came from five or six stations, other stations around like Binbrook and Grimsby and Waltham —
ML: He was a legend wasn’t he?
MC: And Kelstern and those sort of stations because the pub became legendary as almost a second base for the Air Force.
AH: What do you think was special about the pub?
ML: Now?
AH: Then.
ML: In those days?
AH: Yes.
ML: In those days I think a lot was to do with my mother-in-law who was very, a very social person and I think the boys could come here, could relax and just let their hair down as I say. They didn’t know whether they would even be back the next day so but I think it was almost like a home to them and they, they loved it. Yeah.
AH: And they came back some of them like Scrym after the war.
ML: Oh, yes. Scrym. Yes. He used to come. They used to hold Memorial Services at Ludford and Scrym would come and stay with Sandy Gregg and there was another guy. I can’t remember who he was but they used to come and stay. They kept, all kept in touch for years. Yes.
AH: How long did your parents-in-law have the pub?
ML: Until, well when my father-in-law died my mother-in-law kept it on for a while until she retired. Yes. And then it was they sold it on. Yeah.
AH: And your, how old was your husband during that time?
ML: Well, John was born in ’29 so during the war you see he would be ten and he was, because his parents considered a pub was not the ideal growing up station for a young boy he became a weekly boarder at King Edward and was there Monday to Friday and then came home Saturday Sunday. But he had to walk to school and walk back again. Yes. So, he was at King Edward all that time.
AH: How did he feel about that arrangement?
ML: He didn’t like it [laughs] No. He was, but there again I don’t know whether it happens nowadays but in those days he kept in touch with a lot of his friends at school. Boarding school is a great bringer together isn’t it really? So yeah.
AH: And did he enjoy being at the pub during the weekends?
ML: Well, he used to bring some friends back at the weekends and they would go out. They would fish other people’s fish and scrump apples and do all those sort of things and then [pause] Yeah. So he, yes he had many happy memories. Yeah.
AH: How did he, did he have any memories about the pilots?
ML: Oh Scrimgeour. He just, he adored Scrym and would go with Scrym up to Scotland. Yes. He was a figure figure for John. He loved Scrym to bits. Yes. And John Moody was another guy who was in Louth but he was, I won’t go into gory but he was either in [pause] he was part of the Army and I know he had some rather nasty experiences in Germany so, but John yes. He, John had idols I suppose. Scrym was certainly one and John Moody was one. Yeah.
AH: And John Moody? Did he? He stayed in Louth?
ML: No. He met a tragic end. I won’t go into that. Yes. So it was. But no, I think the men that my husband admired I would admire. We all would have admired. They were all brave. Yeah. Yes. So, and I mean now I sort of I look at my father and people say well during Covid, ‘I didn’t see my father for six months.’ I didn’t see my father for five years but it didn’t stop me loving him. And I also, before he went he was reading me “Alice in Wonderland” before he went and I wouldn’t let anybody read it to me until he came back and then we finished it.
AH: Did it feel the same when he came back? Was it —
ML: Life just [pause] it just, I suppose at that time you of life you had to accept life as it was. There was nothing you could do about it. So daddy was back. He was back at work. He was reading me my books and yeah life went back to normal or as normal as life could be. I think we were lucky we lived in Louth and I was lucky I met my husband and came to Cawthorpe so, where I’ve been very happy now for sixty years. Sixty. That was ’58. Oh, sixty-seven years. Good heavens. Sixty-seven years since I was married. Yeah.
AH: Have you always lived here?
ML: No. We lived in the small house at the bottom and then we moved into the bigger house and then John’s mother when she was ill and left the pub and we came up here to, we moved. Extended all the house and moved in to look after her until she, yeah.
AH: Do you remember anything else they talked about? About the pub during the war.
ML: Well, I think I’ve told you about the bottles and the walnut tree.
AH: Oh, you didn’t mention the walnut tree.
ML: Oh, well the outside. Men. Men competing up the walnut tree. Yes. So, yes they were, I mean the pub is nothing now like it was then and another thing that John said that when he first went there, so he would only be about 1937 so he would be eight and he used to, you see there were in those days you didn’t have to have proper toilets or anything. So ladies, the men used to go outside but the ladies were allowed to use Winnie and LJ’s toilets upstairs. So John hit on the idea if he his bedroom door was bang opposite the bathroom door and so he used to sit up there and hold his hand out for the pennies for the ladies going into the toilets [laughs] Life was very different.
MC: Anna, sorry can I mention something to trigger Maureen’s memory? Tell her about the bloke, the guy, the squadron leader, whoever he was who had the incredibly high tastes.
ML: Yes. The wing commander. That’s right. At Manby you see during the war if someone, you were told you had to give board and lodging to somebody you had to do it and of course because Winnie had spare rooms she was expected or told to have any people that were visitors to Manby. And there was one wing commander who was foisted, was lived with, he brought his wife one weekend but he insisted that every day his bed linen would be totally fresh. Yeah. So my mother-in-law used to take the sheets off, fold them and put them through the mangle and put them straight back on [laughs] and the guy still thought he’d got fresh bed linen every day. Yes. Yes. So people were very [pause] they did sort of yeah. I’d forgotten that Mike. Yeah. Yeah. So and —
[recording interrupted]
ML: And she always, there was always fresh flower arrangements but she wouldn’t do them as we. She’d grow rhubarb but she’d make rhubarb leaves into flower arrangements and things. So I suppose during the war it was as close to a home as any of the pilots or navigators or what would they be then? Pilots, navigators, bombers, engineers. There must have been engineers mustn’t there? Yeah. I’m sure I’ve exhausted it now haven’t I Mike?
AH: And there was a Visitor’s Book.
ML: Yes. The Visitor’s Book. When my mother-in-law died I was going through documents and photographs and I found this book and I didn’t pay too much attention. I was told by my mother-in-law that the Prince of Denmark or somewhere had once signed it. I don’t know whether we ever found that but she, I found this book and I [pause] she, I think she held great store by it because the book actually contained the signatures of the pilots who were there and their comments. And it’s hard to explain but the comments are very witty and I mean these pilots were not only English but they were Australian, New Zealand, Canadian, American, Polish. They were from all over the place and the comments and these men who didn’t even know whether they would be alive the next day were very very real. And I didn’t pay too much attention and then we, my daughter she knew how much it meant to me and she told Mike that I’d got this thing and he very kindly came and had a look at it and it was not in a very good state at that point but he had it taken to Grimsby to a lady who very beautifully stuck it back together again. It was so it could be, it could be read and that is the comments in that book are just unbelievable and very, it’s very moving a lot of them. They were trying to be witty and funny and, but it’s they are very very moving and I just wonder if any of their families anywhere [pause] it’s a shame they can’t come and celebrate VE Day isn’t it?
AH: Is there anything else you’d like to add?
ML: No. I think I’ve told you. I’ve bored you enough with that sort of. Mike.
MC: Oh no. Only that it is self-evident from the comments in the book, in the log, visitors log that the pilots although they were being light-hearted, frivolous almost it was clearly a cover for high tension and they regarded the pub I’m sure and LJ and Winifred as family.
ML: Yes.
MC: And almost as parents in some ways because they were very young and it was a way for them to just for even if it was just for a few hours to release the pressure and some of those comments you know come across in that way. They were having a whale of a time and they could forget just for an hour or two.
AH: Yes. Well, thank you very much.
ML: You are very very welcome. I feel, I don’t know how I feel about this book. I feel very [pause] I don’t even know what the word is. That it’s there and it does —
MC: It’s part of you.
ML: Yes. I suppose it is part of me now and it was but the fact it lay hidden for all those years and it is very moving. It’s, as Mike said the comments are witty and, but when you sit back and read them it’s very moving. Very moving indeed, yeah and it makes me probably realise how much they gave. Yes. I feel very proud to sort of have the book. Yeah. Very proud indeed.
AH: Thank you.
[recording interrupted]
AH: This interview was held on the 23rd of April 2025. Also present were Mike Cartwright, a friend and Pip Maloy, Maureen’s daughter.
AH: This is an interview for the International Bomber Command Centre Archive. The interviewee is Maureen Lill and the interviewer is Anna Hoyles and the interview is taking place in Little Cawthorpe. Could you tell me when and where you were born?
ML: I was born in Cleethorpes in 1936 in Harrington Street. Yeah.
AH: And what, do you have any memories about the war?
ML: Yes. I do because you see I was three when the war started and my father was posted to India. My mother was working so although I had to be at school during the week during the weekends I was put on one of those ghastly double decker buses through to Grimsby to Brighowgate Station where my grandfather met me, took me across to the Market Place and got me on a trolley bus and I went down to Cleethorpes and I spent Saturday and Sunday with my grandparents and two of my cousins. And on the Sunday it was reversed and I came home and my memories of that are being travel sick all the [pause] all the way [laughs] I hated it. I loathed it. And Brighowgate, Brighowgate Bus Station oh God was terrible. Yes. So those were my wartime years. I went to Kidgate School. My father had been moved to Louth in ’39 and for the, what was then the Radio Relay Service. The Radio Relay Service was, had big radios stations and from there you could hire a wireless unit which had the light or the home programmes on it and you paid one and nine pence a week for the, to use this and my father managed that. But he was actually quite a mathematician. He was also very interested in radio. So when he was working for Radio Relay in Cleethorpes which was just before I was born he, that’s why he went there because he was a radio engineer and of course during the war he was sent to India because of his knowledge of radios.
AH: So you were living in Louth during the war?
ML: Yes. In 1939 I think we must have come there. Yes. And yes, Louth was, the centre part was almost like it is now. But I do remember Moore’s the butcher. There were two Moore’s, the butchers and a Woolworths and Godsmarks and even Renshaw’s and all the old established firms. Yes. So, but, but Louth was, I can’t, [pause] I can remember they bombed. The night they bombed the Malt Kiln and I can remember that. That and I can remember also when I went I went to Kidgate School and when I was five and during that first few, well few weeks I formed a friendship in the kindergarten school of a girl called Mary Janes and she’d only been at school four or five weeks and the Germans bombed the house. And her sister was Margaret Ottoway who was the Mayor of Louth and it was Margaret’s sister Mary that was at school with me and was killed within weeks of [pause] Yeah, of [pause] So I remember that and the strange thing is I can remember being taken to see the house which now you just think you wouldn’t inflict that on a child would you? But I did. But I was, and at school, Kidgate School I had a wonderful headmaster called Mr Latter. He was an older because by that time all the younger teachers, male teachers had been sent to fight in the war and the older ones had come back and there was this marvellous gentleman called Percy Latter and he was headmaster of Kidgate School when I was there and he was absolutely wonderful. My first teacher was a Miss Giddings who married Dawson the accountant in Louth. Yes. So those are my. I can remember sirens. I can’t remember much else about the war because you see I was only three when it started.
AH: Do you remember how you felt when you saw the bombed house?
ML: No. It wouldn’t have meant anything to a five year old would it? You just, it was, yeah and my, I suppose my mother was very good. She didn’t flap about or, and so I didn’t. But I can remember I wasn’t even told that Mary had been killed. Just that she wouldn’t be at school.
[recording interrupted]
ML: So that was it. Every day I went. Left. I lived in Upgate and I walked across the old pit, down the side of the cattle market, along Newmarket, down Cinder Lane to Kidgate School and you couldn’t do that now with a six year old could you? No. But I did and that was my life and then so that was Monday to Friday. Saturday morning I was put on this bus through to Grimsby and Sunday I came back and Monday it started all over again. But there was nothing and I did oh something and I haven’t said this. I remembered while I was there there was, and it’s where, oh it’s not Wilkos anymore is it? It’s got to be, what’s the new —
AH: I think it’s called B&M.
ML: Yes. Where that is used to be a hotel and there was an archway where in the old days all they, they used to take all the traps and carriages and horses and things through there and I was taken to dance classes by Miss Hawley and Miss Snell and they, and taught me tap dancing. And I didn’t want to tap dance. I would rather have done ballet. But tap dancing now I would give my back teeth to do some tap dancing. But yes. Miss Hawley and Miss Snell and they were in those, the back region of the hotel. What is it when you are teetotal?
AH: Temperance.
ML: Temperance Hotel. It was a Temperance Hotel which is now next door to —
[recording interrupted]
ML: Yeah. So that was, yes Miss Hawley I’d forgotten about that Mike. I didn’t tell you about Miss Hawle] and Miss Snell. And I can still do the dance, ‘Wilhemina is plump and round.’ I can still do the whole thing.
AH: And did you enjoy it even though you would rather have done ballet?
ML: Yes. Yes. Yes, and now God I wish I could do. I love tap dancing. Those tap dance routines in the shows and things are wonderful aren’t they? Do you tap dance Mike?
[pause]
AH: You said your headmaster was wonderful.
ML: Yes.
AH: How was, in what way was he wonderful?
ML: He was very strict. Mind you all the teachers were. You didn’t, you didn’t play about. You had respect for them and you [pause] but he was interested in you. He would meet you in the corridors and, ‘How are you doing?’ And, and one of the things that happened in those days I was one of the first people to take the Eleven-plus. What was it called then? The [pause] what was it called? Just the Eleven-plus wasn’t it? And if you passed you see you had to then go to King Edward for an interview to see which form they would put you in and I’d taken my Eleven-plus and passed it and I can remember being in one of those corridors of Kidgate School and Mr Latter came down and said, ‘Now, Maureen, well done. You’ve got through to King Edward. Now, what are you going to tell them you want to do when you leave school?’ So I said, ‘I’d like to be a model.’ And I can remember the intake of breath because model had a total different meaning I suppose in those days. So he said, ‘What do you think a model does?’ So I explained what I thought and he said, ‘Well, I would suggest that you don’t tell them you want to be a model. You tell them you want to be a mannequin.’ Which is, you know. So that that was fine and he was a caring man. He did care for his pupils. So I went to my interview at King Edward and I walked into the school hall and there was all the school governors sat down there including and the headmistress Miss Figgis was her name. As I got there the very kind gentleman on the end said to me, ‘And what would you like to do when you leave school, Maureen?’ So I said, ‘I want to be a mannequin.’ Remembering what Mr Latter had said and so he said, ‘Right. Do you know what a mannequin does?’ ‘Oh yes.’ ‘Would you like to show me?’ Now, many years I did belong to Playgoers. I suppose it was the actress in me so I walked up and down the school hall much to Miss Figgis’ the headmistress’s disgust and came back and he said, ‘Thank you. That’s fine.’ And I have to tell you I married that man’s son many years later [laughs] He was one of the school governors. Lawrence. Yeah. Yeah.
AH: Gosh how amazing.
ML: Yeah. Yes, it was good. So, and I was there. I’m not a sporty person. I hated hockey because it was rough. Yeah. I quite liked tennis and I quite liked netball but I didn’t like the, hated hockey. Yes. So but we had some superb teachers there but Miss Figgis was, Miss Figgis was there at King Edward the same time as Hedley Warr was at the boy’s school and they were both brilliant. Miss Figgis was a Latin scholar. A brilliant, she was very clever but she should never, no I mustn’t say this but she was in charge of teenage girls. Yes. So it was. But yes I stayed there until I left.
AH: And what did you do after you left?
ML: I, first of all I was wanted to teach blind children and I went to Cheltenham and it was the time, unhappy experiences with the GIs and things down there and I in less than a year I came back. And I was asked if I’d like to go into Lloyds Bank and I went into Lloyds Bank where I stayed until I got married and had children.
AH: And when did you get married?
ML: ’58. 1958. Yes.
AH: And going back to the war do you remember anything about the food and rationing?
ML: Not really. You see, I was three when it started so I never, I know when my father came back I went through his kit bag to see if there was a banana because I thought I might like a banana. And there wasn’t one there so I was disappointed. No. There wasn’t. You went down on a Saturday or during the week and everything was rationed but I suppose it was my life. I’d never known any difference. Yeah.
AH: Do you remember when it stopped? Things stopped being rationed.
ML: Not really. I mean I’m not a sweet tooth so sweets didn’t. But I understand sweets didn’t come off the ration until ’47, ’48. They were later wasn’t it? Yeah. Yes. No, I can’t. I can’t remember. There was Frank Moore, the butcher which is where, I don’t know what the shop is now in Mercer Row. But there were Toplis’s and yeah there were all the old shops. Godsmarks, Toplis’s, Evan Renshaw’s. Yeah.
AH: And was your father away for the whole war?
ML: He came back in 1946. Yes and so I was, didn’t see him for five years.
AH: And do you remember what it was like when he came back? How you felt?
ML: Well, I suppose there was euphoric wasn’t it? It would be the morning he arrived back but he had malaria. He’d got malaria and so he was ill for quite a while. But then he went back to Radio Relay which then became Radio Rentals in Louth and life just, no life just I suppose if I say anything to my parents it’s thank you for letting it just be normal. I do remember being told after the war that the reason St James wasn’t hit was that the German pilots could use it as a beacon to line up for Grimsby and Hull docks. So Louth spire wasn’t [pause] —
AH: And what did your mother do during the war?
ML: She worked for Eric [Vanplugh?] at Evan Renshaw’s. Yes. Yes. She was there a long time. Yeah.
AH: And what other connection do you have with the Royal Oak? The pub.
ML: I married the son of the owners. Yes.
AH: And where did you meet him?
ML: At Louth Playgoers. There was, because while I was in Lloyds Bank I was introduced to Louth Playgoers by other members of the staff there and I went there and I did a read through one night of a play. There was a gentleman who was the clerk to the Rural District Council in Cannon Street, Gilbert Pitt who lived in St Mary’s Lane and he used to direct/produce for our Playgoers and he did a play and I went to his house one night for a read through and John was there. John was playing the part of a very bewhiskered very elderly old admiral and I was playing the young girl who had written a book. And so and it was raining on the way out and he said did I want a lift home and I, yeah and we were great friends for a long time. Yes. And because I was sort of attached to somebody else at that point but then it got more serious and yeah I married him two years later. My mother-in-law Winnie at the pub was wonderful because I used to go over there regularly obviously and she was, I adored her.
AH: And when did your parents in law come to the pub?
ML: 1937. LJ had come to visit to look at a fireplace in Burnside, a big house there and to, as an example of one he wished to put in his aunt’s house in Louth who had been, it had been a lightning bolt had blown it out and he came and had a look at this fireplace in Burnside. And afterwards he went over to the pub and the landlord there said, told him that he was leaving. He had given in his notice. So LJ which we called him got in his car, went over to Alford to Colonel Winch, Soulby, Sons and Winch and said, ‘I understand the pub is coming up. I’d like to be considered.’ You see. And Colonel Winch said, ‘Well, I’ve only just got the letter. How did you know?’ And he said well the landlord had told him. So he went. He came over and the pub was, well Mike knows there was it was nothing like it is today and they, my mother-in-law they were very, well she was very artistic like her granddaughter and they did do the house up so, and it got quite a reputation. And LJ just used the pub then as, well during that time he was in 1937 he was mayor two years running. Yes. Yeah. He was. But then he took over and it became his, it was his life. It was his. Yeah. He had some very interesting clients. The doctors, the farmers, the vets they were all. Yeah. They were local. Very local but he expected a certain amount of decorum. Nobody would have been allowed in without a shirt at all or shorts. They had to be properly dressed and, yeah.
AH: Have you, sorry?
ML: I was quite scared of him actually. Now, now I know. Now, I’ve done research into his life I understand why he was. But he was a very clever man. Yeah.
AH: And where did he come from originally?
ML: He was born in Louth. Yes. The family are Louth people. Yes. And my mother-in-law was from Nottingham.
AH: And what did he, what did he do in the First World War?
ML: Who?
AH: Your father-in-law.
ML: Oh, that was, that’s the guy who was shot and oh sorry. Yes, I didn’t tell you did I? He was, he and his brother enlisted on the first day of the war and he was sent out to the Dardanelles where he got dysentery and he was very seriously ill there and took him quite a long time I think to recover. From hospital ship back to hospital and then he was sent back to England. And then he recovered from that and was sent back to France to a village called Le Boeuf. And in Le Boeuf he took his men over the top and he was shot through the stomach and we all, well not me I wasn’t there but they thought he had died but the French had picked him up and taken him to a station and he recovered. Came back to England to recuperate and married my mother-in-law in Nottingham and then went back and then he was gassed. So he came back and I don’t, he eventually finished up in Humberston. He was a commanding officer in Humberston in one of the farms there and he helped the civilians and things there before he came back into Louth to the shop. Lill’s of Louth. That was his father’s shop. His father Jimmy Lill who is, what’s the shop now? It’s got, “Lill’s of Louth,” on the baker’s shop opposite Stevensons, the greengrocers.
AH: Cooplands.
ML: Cooplands. Yes. If you look in there it’s got, “Lill’s of Louth,” and that was Jimmy Lill was LJ’s father who, yeah.
AH: And had he ever ran a pub before?
ML: No. No.
AH: Do you know why they decided to?
ML: I have no idea. I suppose, as I say I was [pause] he was quite a big man, an imposing man. No. I never. I suppose it was during those days you took what was offered. Yeah.
AH: And what made you feel afraid of him?
ML: He was not a communicative person with young people. But he, he was a great wag with his friends and things and there are some quite wild stories. Well, not wild stories but yeah he, he had great, Dr Russell who was a great friend and Mr Bill Wright, a farmer and Barry Stocks the vet. They were all big big mates. Big friends. And I can remember at one point and I was married there was a vicar of Althorp, the reverend and he had a big black dog called Buddy who used to come to the pub every night and he used to come down from, Legby he used to come Legbourne way and get to the end of the road here and let Buddy out and then race Buddy along to see who could get to the pub first. Yes. Reverend Austin Lee. That’s right. His name was. Yeah. And Buddy. Yeah.
AH: And was your mother-in-law a different sort of person?
ML: Very artistic. Very sociable. Yeah. I mean the pub was, she was the one who did the flowers. There were always flower arrangements there and yes she was a wonderful person. A lovely person. Yeah. We call this one little Winnie here.
AH: And what happened at the Royal Oak during the war?
ML: Well, the pilots from Manby could, Manby was close enough to the pub for the pilots and the bombers and the aimers and navigators whatever they would walk across the field picking mushrooms as they came, bring them to John’s mother who used to cook them for them. But during the war they, the pilots spent a lot of time, they used it almost as their clubhouse and yeah they were the pilots. They didn’t know. They’d come here for a drink because they didn’t know whether they would even be here the next day and they went out. Am I allowed to [pause] refill bottles outside and took those refill bottles and bombed Germany with them the next day. Yes. So they did. But the stories and this is when they were wonderful. They made a lot of friends. This guy who was, John always reckoned he was a natural pilot. His name was Scrymgeour-Wedderburn and his family, he was a laird up in Scotland and he used to come and visit us many years later when John and I were here and he brought his friend who was Sandy Gregg whose son became a cricket captain. Was it England or Australia? England was it? Yeah. But they were. Yes. So, and the number of people. Yes and we’ve had, I think my mother-in-law was a very sociable person but we all are. We like parties. We like, we like family get togethers.
AH: And this man Scrimshaw what was he doing during the war?
ML: Well, he was a pilot, a navigator I don’t know what he was. I think they were part of the time stationed at Ludford but John, my husband always told me that Scrym was actually a natural pilot. He could get in any plane and just fly it because it was instinctive. Yeah. But he was a big man, yes. We’ve got photographs. I think I’ve shown [pause] yeah we’ve had and I was lucky enough that they would let these, the friendships carried on afterwards yes. But Scrym was certainly a pilot. I don’t know whether he was a pilot, navigator. I think he was a pilot.
MC: Just to, just to say that he was actually a flight lieutenant and he was a —
ML: Pilot.
MC: A crew leader. Yeah.
ML: A crew.
MC: He had a crew of eight in many of his missions over to Germany.
[recording paused]
MC: A crew of seven generally speaking but they put eight, eight in the Lancasters from stations in this area because they wanted the extra crew person on board who could speak German. Just in case. But Scrymgeour-Wedderburn made a name for himself as an outlandish character but as Maureen said was an absolutely natural leader of men and held no fear of anything. Hugely courageous and was compared to one of his ancestors from around the twelfth century who apparently once seized the banner of one of the Scottish kings and marched across the River Spey with it in his [laughs] in his arms. And they were said by his relatives that Scrymgeour-Wedderburn was exactly like that ancestor and had that sort of courage.
AH: And did he throw a party?
ML: If you pardon me Mike knows about this because this came from —
MC: Not that I was there but at the end of one, maybe his second tour which again was unusual because not many people lasted as long as that he had a massive, the fact that people in his crew wrote about this legendary party that he had which was at the [unclear] and he only had it for the crew of eight and various other people in there. And he apparently footed the bill for the whole party and that made a huge name for himself in the pub itself because of that and the pilots and the crew who came to the pub —
ML: Adored him.
MC: Came from five or six stations, other stations around like Binbrook and Grimsby and Waltham —
ML: He was a legend wasn’t he?
MC: And Kelstern and those sort of stations because the pub became legendary as almost a second base for the Air Force.
AH: What do you think was special about the pub?
ML: Now?
AH: Then.
ML: In those days?
AH: Yes.
ML: In those days I think a lot was to do with my mother-in-law who was very, a very social person and I think the boys could come here, could relax and just let their hair down as I say. They didn’t know whether they would even be back the next day so but I think it was almost like a home to them and they, they loved it. Yeah.
AH: And they came back some of them like Scrym after the war.
ML: Oh, yes. Scrym. Yes. He used to come. They used to hold Memorial Services at Ludford and Scrym would come and stay with Sandy Gregg and there was another guy. I can’t remember who he was but they used to come and stay. They kept, all kept in touch for years. Yes.
AH: How long did your parents-in-law have the pub?
ML: Until, well when my father-in-law died my mother-in-law kept it on for a while until she retired. Yes. And then it was they sold it on. Yeah.
AH: And your, how old was your husband during that time?
ML: Well, John was born in ’29 so during the war you see he would be ten and he was, because his parents considered a pub was not the ideal growing up station for a young boy he became a weekly boarder at King Edward and was there Monday to Friday and then came home Saturday Sunday. But he had to walk to school and walk back again. Yes. So, he was at King Edward all that time.
AH: How did he feel about that arrangement?
ML: He didn’t like it [laughs] No. He was, but there again I don’t know whether it happens nowadays but in those days he kept in touch with a lot of his friends at school. Boarding school is a great bringer together isn’t it really? So yeah.
AH: And did he enjoy being at the pub during the weekends?
ML: Well, he used to bring some friends back at the weekends and they would go out. They would fish other people’s fish and scrump apples and do all those sort of things and then [pause] Yeah. So he, yes he had many happy memories. Yeah.
AH: How did he, did he have any memories about the pilots?
ML: Oh Scrimgeour. He just, he adored Scrym and would go with Scrym up to Scotland. Yes. He was a figure figure for John. He loved Scrym to bits. Yes. And John Moody was another guy who was in Louth but he was, I won’t go into gory but he was either in [pause] he was part of the Army and I know he had some rather nasty experiences in Germany so, but John yes. He, John had idols I suppose. Scrym was certainly one and John Moody was one. Yeah.
AH: And John Moody? Did he? He stayed in Louth?
ML: No. He met a tragic end. I won’t go into that. Yes. So it was. But no, I think the men that my husband admired I would admire. We all would have admired. They were all brave. Yeah. Yes. So, and I mean now I sort of I look at my father and people say well during Covid, ‘I didn’t see my father for six months.’ I didn’t see my father for five years but it didn’t stop me loving him. And I also, before he went he was reading me “Alice in Wonderland” before he went and I wouldn’t let anybody read it to me until he came back and then we finished it.
AH: Did it feel the same when he came back? Was it —
ML: Life just [pause] it just, I suppose at that time you of life you had to accept life as it was. There was nothing you could do about it. So daddy was back. He was back at work. He was reading me my books and yeah life went back to normal or as normal as life could be. I think we were lucky we lived in Louth and I was lucky I met my husband and came to Cawthorpe so, where I’ve been very happy now for sixty years. Sixty. That was ’58. Oh, sixty-seven years. Good heavens. Sixty-seven years since I was married. Yeah.
AH: Have you always lived here?
ML: No. We lived in the small house at the bottom and then we moved into the bigger house and then John’s mother when she was ill and left the pub and we came up here to, we moved. Extended all the house and moved in to look after her until she, yeah.
AH: Do you remember anything else they talked about? About the pub during the war.
ML: Well, I think I’ve told you about the bottles and the walnut tree.
AH: Oh, you didn’t mention the walnut tree.
ML: Oh, well the outside. Men. Men competing up the walnut tree. Yes. So, yes they were, I mean the pub is nothing now like it was then and another thing that John said that when he first went there, so he would only be about 1937 so he would be eight and he used to, you see there were in those days you didn’t have to have proper toilets or anything. So ladies, the men used to go outside but the ladies were allowed to use Winnie and LJ’s toilets upstairs. So John hit on the idea if he his bedroom door was bang opposite the bathroom door and so he used to sit up there and hold his hand out for the pennies for the ladies going into the toilets [laughs] Life was very different.
MC: Anna, sorry can I mention something to trigger Maureen’s memory? Tell her about the bloke, the guy, the squadron leader, whoever he was who had the incredibly high tastes.
ML: Yes. The wing commander. That’s right. At Manby you see during the war if someone, you were told you had to give board and lodging to somebody you had to do it and of course because Winnie had spare rooms she was expected or told to have any people that were visitors to Manby. And there was one wing commander who was foisted, was lived with, he brought his wife one weekend but he insisted that every day his bed linen would be totally fresh. Yeah. So my mother-in-law used to take the sheets off, fold them and put them through the mangle and put them straight back on [laughs] and the guy still thought he’d got fresh bed linen every day. Yes. Yes. So people were very [pause] they did sort of yeah. I’d forgotten that Mike. Yeah. Yeah. So and —
[recording interrupted]
ML: And she always, there was always fresh flower arrangements but she wouldn’t do them as we. She’d grow rhubarb but she’d make rhubarb leaves into flower arrangements and things. So I suppose during the war it was as close to a home as any of the pilots or navigators or what would they be then? Pilots, navigators, bombers, engineers. There must have been engineers mustn’t there? Yeah. I’m sure I’ve exhausted it now haven’t I Mike?
AH: And there was a Visitor’s Book.
ML: Yes. The Visitor’s Book. When my mother-in-law died I was going through documents and photographs and I found this book and I didn’t pay too much attention. I was told by my mother-in-law that the Prince of Denmark or somewhere had once signed it. I don’t know whether we ever found that but she, I found this book and I [pause] she, I think she held great store by it because the book actually contained the signatures of the pilots who were there and their comments. And it’s hard to explain but the comments are very witty and I mean these pilots were not only English but they were Australian, New Zealand, Canadian, American, Polish. They were from all over the place and the comments and these men who didn’t even know whether they would be alive the next day were very very real. And I didn’t pay too much attention and then we, my daughter she knew how much it meant to me and she told Mike that I’d got this thing and he very kindly came and had a look at it and it was not in a very good state at that point but he had it taken to Grimsby to a lady who very beautifully stuck it back together again. It was so it could be, it could be read and that is the comments in that book are just unbelievable and very, it’s very moving a lot of them. They were trying to be witty and funny and, but it’s they are very very moving and I just wonder if any of their families anywhere [pause] it’s a shame they can’t come and celebrate VE Day isn’t it?
AH: Is there anything else you’d like to add?
ML: No. I think I’ve told you. I’ve bored you enough with that sort of. Mike.
MC: Oh no. Only that it is self-evident from the comments in the book, in the log, visitors log that the pilots although they were being light-hearted, frivolous almost it was clearly a cover for high tension and they regarded the pub I’m sure and LJ and Winifred as family.
ML: Yes.
MC: And almost as parents in some ways because they were very young and it was a way for them to just for even if it was just for a few hours to release the pressure and some of those comments you know come across in that way. They were having a whale of a time and they could forget just for an hour or two.
AH: Yes. Well, thank you very much.
ML: You are very very welcome. I feel, I don’t know how I feel about this book. I feel very [pause] I don’t even know what the word is. That it’s there and it does —
MC: It’s part of you.
ML: Yes. I suppose it is part of me now and it was but the fact it lay hidden for all those years and it is very moving. It’s, as Mike said the comments are witty and, but when you sit back and read them it’s very moving. Very moving indeed, yeah and it makes me probably realise how much they gave. Yes. I feel very proud to sort of have the book. Yeah. Very proud indeed.
AH: Thank you.
[recording interrupted]
AH: This interview was held on the 23rd of April 2025. Also present were Mike Cartwright, a friend and Pip Maloy, Maureen’s daughter.
Collection
Citation
Anna Hoyles, “Interview with Maureen Shirley Lill,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed January 25, 2026, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/56382.