Interview with an anonymous WAAF
Title
Interview with an anonymous WAAF
Description
The interviewee speaks of her initial training RAF Catterick and some of the people she met there. She talks of meeting Roy, the man who would become her husband, at RAF Bruntingthorpe.
She tells of Roy’s progress through his training including the different aircraft he flew at various RAF stations. His crew were Flight Lieutenant Theo Fox, Matt, Frank Sowerby, the bomb aimer, and Smithy the rear gunner.
She tells of Roy’s progress through his training including the different aircraft he flew at various RAF stations. His crew were Flight Lieutenant Theo Fox, Matt, Frank Sowerby, the bomb aimer, and Smithy the rear gunner.
Date
2007-07-30
Spatial Coverage
Coverage
Language
Type
Format
00:31:32 audio recording
Conforms To
Publisher
Rights
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
ASmallmanJ070730-0001, ASmallmanJ070730-0002, ASmallmanJ070730-0003, ASmallmanJ070730-0004
Transcription
INTERVIEWEE: I was three months old.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Then we came up to the [Riggs] near [Nocton].
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Stayed there for ten years.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Went to school at Nocton. Had five miles to walk to school.
Interviewer: Wouldn’t do it now would they?
INTERVIEWEE: No. And then we came down to Old Dalby and stayed there until I was fifteen. Went to [unclear] School. Then when I was fifteen I went to Bourne in Lincolnshire to look after a little girl called Scarlet whose father was in charge of the Ministry of Labour training, Old Dalby.
Interviewer: Oh right. That’s interesting.
INTERVIEWEE: Stayed there for nine months in Bourne looking after this. Looked after another little girl and then I looked after twins and stayed with them until I was twenty. Went up to, at the beginning of the war I went up to —
Interviewer: Oh, was this the —
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear] in Newcastle.
Interviewer: Oh yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Their father was in charge of the Forestry Commission up there. I joined the WAAF from there.
Interviewer: Yeah. [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. How old were you?
INTERVIEWEE: Twenty.
Interviewer: Twenty. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. You stayed for a week or so at Pickering before I went to that [unclear]. One of the funny things there was the fact that the day I went to join the WAAF a plane came over Pickering. There was a very funny noise and we went running out in pyjamas and looked at this plane and it came back and it had a swastika on it. It had come and it had shot up the station at Pickering.
Interviewer: Really?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. More funny they couldn’t understand [unclear] had been shown because bringing it down on to the town.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: So when I went down to Sheffield to have all my forms filled in and all that.
Interviewer: You had to [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Medical forms and everything.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Sent me up to Harrogate. I was stationed at the Grand Hotel.
Interviewer: Really? Oh. That’s a lovely digs.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. [laughs] but we had to go up all the three flights of stairs to go —
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And we were, we did our square bashing down in Valley Gardens.
Interviewer: Did you really?
INTERVIEWEE: So then [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: We had to have our hair cut and our skirts down right below our knees.
Interviewer: Right.
INTERVIEWEE: And then after three weeks drill, injections and what not they sent, I was stationed at, sent to Catterick which was a sick bay so I didn’t —
Interviewer: Right.
INTERVIEWEE: And we did all the, it was all the front line used to come and rest there when they’d been down in Tangmere and Hornchurch.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They came to Catterick.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: To have a rest. [unclear] Johnnie Johnson and all the [unclear] 145 Squadron were stationed there. I was, you know in the electrical section. And after two years I was sent to North Luffenham.
Interviewer: Where is that?
INTERVIEWEE: Nottingham.
Interviewer: Oh, Nottingham.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: A friend of mine came with me all the way through she was being sent down there three weeks before [unclear].
Interviewer: [unclear]
Yeah. That was good wasn’t it?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Then we went from Luffenham to Bruntingthorpe. To 29 OTU.
Interviewer: Right. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And that was where I met Roy.
Interviewer: That was an operational bomber base was it?
INTERVIEWEE: It was [unclear] where you came as individual pilots, w/op AGs and all the rest of it and they got bombed up.
Interviewer: [unclear] so what were, did you live on camp then?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: What was it, what was it like? What sort of accommodation was it?
INTERVIEWEE: It was [pause] it was a Nissen hut. One of the funny things about it was the fact that it was [unclear] one of King Henry’s [unclear] King Henry took one of his women so we always used to say it was haunted. Lady [unclear] used to haunt it. And we used to say come on [unclear] And we all, we all a gang of us sort of went to Luffenham, to the pictures in and we were sat there and this aircrew started throwing apple cores at us so that was the start of my romance. He used to after eating an apple throw the apple core.
Interviewer: Oh right.
INTERVIEWEE: So that was the start of going out with Roy.
Interviewer: Yeah. [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: I was still in the electrical department.
Interviewer: The electrical department. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: And where was he from?
INTERVIEWEE: He was from [unclear] in Kent.
Interviewer: So —
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear] training to pick up [unclear]
Interviewer: Yes.
INTERVIEWEE: Then they moved on to, well first of all to Syerston where they converted to Stirlings I think. Then from Stirlings they went on to Bardney where they were on Lancasters.
Interviewer: Stirling was [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Because he was on Ansons —
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: To start with.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes. That was the start. That was when he was in Scotland. He did his training on Ansons and —
Interviewer: Stirlings.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: And Wellingtons was it?
INTERVIEWEE: Wellingtons. It was Wellingtons at our, at 29 OTU.
Interviewer: Oh, was it?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They were Wellingtons and they did their first leaflet raid over France in a Wellington and he came back with frostbite. [unclear] with his parents and he got frostbite.
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Did you, did you get to know the other members of the crew then?
INTERVIEWEE: Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. [Theo] Fox was the officer and he was flight lieutenant so he didn’t really mix with the others. Then there was Matt [pause] and Frank was the, [Frank Sowerby] was the bomb aimer and I suppose the leader of the [unclear] Smithy was the tail gunner. [unclear] was the engineer.
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: As long as [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Did everybody mix then? Did all the crew mix?
INTERVIEWEE: Oh yeah. [unclear] his pilot, his skipper told him he was not to do it because if he got killed just going up it would mess the crew up so he wasn’t allowed to fly with anybody else.
Interviewer: Oh right.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: So then he was where?
INTERVIEWEE: Then he went to Syerston. Then Bardney. That was where we were married actually. Six of us.
Interviewer: So what was, what was life like at Bardney then on the camp?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, I think it was quite good really. It seemed quite good. They always seemed friendly.
Interviewer: What was the living accommodation like?
INTERVIEWEE: We were in Nissen huts.
Interviewer: Still —
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: I think that was the standard thing wasn’t it?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Apart from when we were at Catterick. We were in [unclear] there and you know [unclear]
Interviewer: Sure.
INTERVIEWEE: We were billeted there.
Interviewer: What about Catterick. What were you doing at Catterick?
INTERVIEWEE: That was when I first joined up.
Interviewer: Oh, when you first joined up. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. Then what about time off? Did you go out socially?
INTERVIEWEE: Went to Lincoln.
Interviewer: The crews.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: At the time Roy had [unclear] and he used to come [unclear] but as I say we were married after six weeks. After we had done six.
Interviewer: Six [unclear] yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He rang up to say he’d get leave so I went to Bardney and stayed with him.
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: He had to go to briefing. They’d had the morning off and then they’d go to briefing in the afternoon.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And they’d go for their meal. Very good for them.
Interviewer: So what did they have to eat?
INTERVIEWEE: I think they used to have the best, you know. They could have anything that was going.
Interviewer: What they wanted sort of thing.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Bacon and egg or whatever they wanted sort of thing.
Interviewer: Yeah. The aircrew would eat together.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes, at the first and then there would be the officers eat with the crews before they went.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They used to [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. What about [unclear] was the skipper wasn’t he?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Did he mix with the aircrew or not?
INTERVIEWEE: Not much.
Interviewer: Not socially.
INTERVIEWEE: No. No. The others all mixed together very well. He kept himself aloof. He was the boss.
Interviewer: Where did he come from [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: I think he was Welsh.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: I think [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was how he got his commission. Accountable for —
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. [unclear] out at night.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes. They were all night.
Interviewer: All night. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Did you ever miss seeing them off?
INTERVIEWEE: Only the night before we were married.
Interviewer: That’s all the time.
INTERVIEWEE: Because we were supposed to be coming home on the 11th. They sent him back the night before. [unclear] they sent him back again to the same place the night after so I went and watched them going off. They looked as though they were never going to get off the ground they were that heavy.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Do you think it ever got to them mentally then or did they just get on with it?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, they just seemed to get on with it. They never, it never seemed to —
Interviewer: No.
INTERVIEWEE: Affect them at all.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: I mean the odd one had a nervous breakdown [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: You know it just didn’t seem to. I suppose they were young and it was danger.
Interviewer: Yeah. Exciting.
INTERVIEWEE: It was just exciting to be getting on with.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: It was a different thing when they were over the target.
Interviewer: What about when they got back then? What then?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, then they’d got to, the next morning they had to be debriefed you know. They had to —
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Had the debriefing. They had to say whether they’d made a success of it or not.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [unclear] So when did the aircrews then get to know when they were on ops? The same day or —
INTERVIEWEE: The same day.
Interviewer: The same day.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. You mentioned, what was that about the [Prestwick]
INTERVIEWEE: Well, there was one night when I was at [Prestwick] [unclear] I never did find out what it was.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: I wish I had because [unclear] ‘We had a [unclear] with us last night over the target.
Interviewer: Yes. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: It was just a, ‘by the way,’ you know.
Interviewer: Yeah. And you went to [pause] when you were going to get married.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Coming up from [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: You know, came to Lincoln.
INTERVIEWEE: We came to Lincoln actually. We had a friend coming —
Interviewer: [unclear] up to Lincoln.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes. The night before.
Interviewer: And he wasn’t there.
INTERVIEWEE: No. They said, ‘There’s a war on.’ We thought, ‘Oh, you silly beggars. We know there’s a war on.’ But evidently that was [unclear] they were flying that night.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So you went to, you went to —
INTERVIEWEE: Was it the Black Bull?
Interviewer: Bardney then.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. We stayed at the pub for the night.
Interviewer: Yeah. You stayed at the Black Horse. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: We came down about 11 o’clock the next morning and he said, ‘Love, I can’t go home today because we have to bomb again tonight.’ So I had him for about a half an hour and then he was off again for briefing. I was stuck at Bardney and watched him go off that night.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And then the next morning —
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: I still hadn’t heard from him. Well, I heard him come back about 3 o’clock I suppose. I heard the planes coming back.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: But then he had to be debriefed again the next morning so it was about half past eleven before we got to go to Lincoln.
Interviewer: So where was, so then you went into Lincoln with Frank.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Frank Sowerby.
INTERVIEWEE: So I went to Lincoln on the train. They’d rung up and said they couldn’t get any carnations so people brought a big bunch of carnations back. Here was me in my uniform and this bunch of carnations and these asleep on either side of me. I was sort of [unclear].
Interviewer: I know. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So [unclear] where did Frank stay? Frank Sowerby.
INTERVIEWEE: He stayed with Auntie Dot.
Interviewer: Oh, did he?
INTERVIEWEE: Uncle Brian and stayed Auntie Dot’s and I stayed at [unclear]
Interviewer: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So [pause] so after the wedding where did Frank go? Did he —
INTERVIEWEE: He came back to York with us and then went back [unclear] to Wallsend.
Interviewer: Oh, did he?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. [unclear]
Interviewer: How much leave did he have then?
INTERVIEWEE: Seven days.
Interviewer: Seven days and then back on to it.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Then six weeks later one of Roy’s lungs collapsed and he was taken to Rauceby.
Interviewer: Really? Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was the end of his Air Force career of course because it was one hundred percent disability.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He was off work for a year and started work after that. He had a disability pension for ten years.
Interviewer: Oh, I see. How long was he in hospital for?
INTERVIEWEE: Nineteen weeks.
INTERVIEWEE: Nineteen weeks.
Interviewer: Yeah. So, I used, I was able to go from Bruntingthorpe but I had to hitchhike because it was at the time of the invasion and you weren’t allowed to go outside without [unclear] so I used to have to hitchhike to Rauceby to see him.
INTERVIEWEE: Did you now?
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. That was before it was a hospital.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was a sort of hospital for airmen.
Interviewer: Well, it was for everybody there. There was the burns place for the people who had been burned, TB patients and all the aircrew. There were a couple there actually.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It must have been an very big sight really.
INTERVIEWEE: It was you know. We went to the pictures one day and there was this poor man that was burned to pieces you know.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: It was awful to see them.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And yet they didn’t seem to lose their spirit. They could still take a bit of a joke.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They finished up at [unclear] and sold them back to people.
Interviewer: Oh dear.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah. He made you that doll.
Interviewer: That’s right. The doll. Yes. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They taught them to do things like that [unclear] that you know.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He did quite a few when he came home and he used to sell them.
Interviewer: Did you say they slept outside or something?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, on a balcony.
Interviewer: On a balcony.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. They were on a covered balcony.
Interviewer: Open air.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Open air. Well, the TB people were on one side and Roy was on the other because there was [pause] his lung had collapsed but it wasn’t TB.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: So I think he still had to have the open air.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever think that was something to do with flying then [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Well, I think it was probably, you know the cold.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And he’d come on leave and he said he had a pain but he wouldn’t go to the doctors.
Interviewer: No.
INTERVIEWEE: If he had gone to the doctor when he first started with this pain but instead of that he came back to the camp with me for one day and then he biked from Lincoln to Bardney. [unclear] rang me up to tell me that after he’d been at hospital. He’d collapsed when he got back. When he got back to Bardney he collapsed and was actually moved to hospital. That was that.
Interviewer: Right. Yeah. That was the end of his flying career.
INTERVIEWEE: It was pleurisy.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear] with pleurisy.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Of course they didn’t have the drugs in them days you know.
Interviewer: No, that’s right.
INTERVIEWEE: So that was the end of his flying career.
Interviewer: Yes. Yes.
INTERVIEWEE: After that of course he came back. He did a lot for the aircrew, chairman of the aircrews RAFA for years.
Interviewer: Yes, that’s right.
INTERVIEWEE: Collecting [all week] as you know.
Interviewer: Yes. Yes.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. So then when he came out where did he work then?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, we went to [unclear] for a while and then we went down to Kent. We lived in Kent for two years and then we came back and found that place [unclear]
Interviewer: Before that didn’t you go to —
INTERVIEWEE: Oh yes. We went up to Wallsend where he did a [unclear] when he was able to work. They put him on [unclear] engineering at Wallsend and that’s when he saw Frank. He was walking down the street he saw this RAF officer, chased him and it was Frank.
Interviewer: Frank Sowerby.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. So after that we used to go to [his farm]
Interviewer: That was amazing.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. You know you wouldn’t have thought that at the time would you?
Interviewer: You really wouldn’t. All that way. To meet him in —
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. That’s incredible wasn’t it? Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Then where did Frank go? Did you know? [unclear] He served in the RAF for some time.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. He was in the RAF for quite some time and then he was a salesman. I’ve forgotten what type of sales. He was a sales for a [company when he signed up I think. Whether he went back to that [unclear].
Interviewer: So did he do, did he do his [crafts] then in engineering?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, he did and then it was too heavy for him you know. So that was a waste of [unclear] and then he went back to [unclear] so that was the end of his [unclear]That was the end of his going back to Wallsend. [unclear] a bedsitter up there.
Interviewer: Yeah. Nice. And then you came to [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. And then we went down to Kent after that.
Interviewer: Down to Kent.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. A lovely house. I mean we lived with his mum for a while and then a farmer let us have a cottage. We lived there until the old farmer had a heart attack and we got three weeks to get out so we got a bedsitter. We got a house [unclear] it was Bethany School for Boys.
Interviewer: Oh yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He’d been headmaster of Bethany School for Boys. And we stayed there until we came back on to the farm.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was when, that was when we started [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. That’s right.
[unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Then we started the shop and that was it.
Interviewer: Yeah. That was it. Yeah.
[recording paused]
Interviewer: The late Sergeant Roy [unclear] wireless operator/air gunner of 9 Squadron Lancasters RAF Bardney in Lincolnshire. This is Roy saying a few words at a charity fund raising event on the fiftieth anniversary of the Battle of Britain.
[unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Then we came up to the [Riggs] near [Nocton].
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Stayed there for ten years.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Went to school at Nocton. Had five miles to walk to school.
Interviewer: Wouldn’t do it now would they?
INTERVIEWEE: No. And then we came down to Old Dalby and stayed there until I was fifteen. Went to [unclear] School. Then when I was fifteen I went to Bourne in Lincolnshire to look after a little girl called Scarlet whose father was in charge of the Ministry of Labour training, Old Dalby.
Interviewer: Oh right. That’s interesting.
INTERVIEWEE: Stayed there for nine months in Bourne looking after this. Looked after another little girl and then I looked after twins and stayed with them until I was twenty. Went up to, at the beginning of the war I went up to —
Interviewer: Oh, was this the —
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear] in Newcastle.
Interviewer: Oh yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Their father was in charge of the Forestry Commission up there. I joined the WAAF from there.
Interviewer: Yeah. [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. How old were you?
INTERVIEWEE: Twenty.
Interviewer: Twenty. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. You stayed for a week or so at Pickering before I went to that [unclear]. One of the funny things there was the fact that the day I went to join the WAAF a plane came over Pickering. There was a very funny noise and we went running out in pyjamas and looked at this plane and it came back and it had a swastika on it. It had come and it had shot up the station at Pickering.
Interviewer: Really?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. More funny they couldn’t understand [unclear] had been shown because bringing it down on to the town.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: So when I went down to Sheffield to have all my forms filled in and all that.
Interviewer: You had to [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Medical forms and everything.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Sent me up to Harrogate. I was stationed at the Grand Hotel.
Interviewer: Really? Oh. That’s a lovely digs.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. [laughs] but we had to go up all the three flights of stairs to go —
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And we were, we did our square bashing down in Valley Gardens.
Interviewer: Did you really?
INTERVIEWEE: So then [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: We had to have our hair cut and our skirts down right below our knees.
Interviewer: Right.
INTERVIEWEE: And then after three weeks drill, injections and what not they sent, I was stationed at, sent to Catterick which was a sick bay so I didn’t —
Interviewer: Right.
INTERVIEWEE: And we did all the, it was all the front line used to come and rest there when they’d been down in Tangmere and Hornchurch.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They came to Catterick.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: To have a rest. [unclear] Johnnie Johnson and all the [unclear] 145 Squadron were stationed there. I was, you know in the electrical section. And after two years I was sent to North Luffenham.
Interviewer: Where is that?
INTERVIEWEE: Nottingham.
Interviewer: Oh, Nottingham.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: A friend of mine came with me all the way through she was being sent down there three weeks before [unclear].
Interviewer: [unclear]
Yeah. That was good wasn’t it?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Then we went from Luffenham to Bruntingthorpe. To 29 OTU.
Interviewer: Right. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And that was where I met Roy.
Interviewer: That was an operational bomber base was it?
INTERVIEWEE: It was [unclear] where you came as individual pilots, w/op AGs and all the rest of it and they got bombed up.
Interviewer: [unclear] so what were, did you live on camp then?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: What was it, what was it like? What sort of accommodation was it?
INTERVIEWEE: It was [pause] it was a Nissen hut. One of the funny things about it was the fact that it was [unclear] one of King Henry’s [unclear] King Henry took one of his women so we always used to say it was haunted. Lady [unclear] used to haunt it. And we used to say come on [unclear] And we all, we all a gang of us sort of went to Luffenham, to the pictures in and we were sat there and this aircrew started throwing apple cores at us so that was the start of my romance. He used to after eating an apple throw the apple core.
Interviewer: Oh right.
INTERVIEWEE: So that was the start of going out with Roy.
Interviewer: Yeah. [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: I was still in the electrical department.
Interviewer: The electrical department. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: And where was he from?
INTERVIEWEE: He was from [unclear] in Kent.
Interviewer: So —
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear] training to pick up [unclear]
Interviewer: Yes.
INTERVIEWEE: Then they moved on to, well first of all to Syerston where they converted to Stirlings I think. Then from Stirlings they went on to Bardney where they were on Lancasters.
Interviewer: Stirling was [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Because he was on Ansons —
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: To start with.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes. That was the start. That was when he was in Scotland. He did his training on Ansons and —
Interviewer: Stirlings.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: And Wellingtons was it?
INTERVIEWEE: Wellingtons. It was Wellingtons at our, at 29 OTU.
Interviewer: Oh, was it?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They were Wellingtons and they did their first leaflet raid over France in a Wellington and he came back with frostbite. [unclear] with his parents and he got frostbite.
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Did you, did you get to know the other members of the crew then?
INTERVIEWEE: Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. [Theo] Fox was the officer and he was flight lieutenant so he didn’t really mix with the others. Then there was Matt [pause] and Frank was the, [Frank Sowerby] was the bomb aimer and I suppose the leader of the [unclear] Smithy was the tail gunner. [unclear] was the engineer.
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: As long as [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Did everybody mix then? Did all the crew mix?
INTERVIEWEE: Oh yeah. [unclear] his pilot, his skipper told him he was not to do it because if he got killed just going up it would mess the crew up so he wasn’t allowed to fly with anybody else.
Interviewer: Oh right.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. That’s interesting.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: So then he was where?
INTERVIEWEE: Then he went to Syerston. Then Bardney. That was where we were married actually. Six of us.
Interviewer: So what was, what was life like at Bardney then on the camp?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, I think it was quite good really. It seemed quite good. They always seemed friendly.
Interviewer: What was the living accommodation like?
INTERVIEWEE: We were in Nissen huts.
Interviewer: Still —
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: I think that was the standard thing wasn’t it?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Apart from when we were at Catterick. We were in [unclear] there and you know [unclear]
Interviewer: Sure.
INTERVIEWEE: We were billeted there.
Interviewer: What about Catterick. What were you doing at Catterick?
INTERVIEWEE: That was when I first joined up.
Interviewer: Oh, when you first joined up. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. Then what about time off? Did you go out socially?
INTERVIEWEE: Went to Lincoln.
Interviewer: The crews.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: At the time Roy had [unclear] and he used to come [unclear] but as I say we were married after six weeks. After we had done six.
Interviewer: Six [unclear] yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He rang up to say he’d get leave so I went to Bardney and stayed with him.
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: He had to go to briefing. They’d had the morning off and then they’d go to briefing in the afternoon.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And they’d go for their meal. Very good for them.
Interviewer: So what did they have to eat?
INTERVIEWEE: I think they used to have the best, you know. They could have anything that was going.
Interviewer: What they wanted sort of thing.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Bacon and egg or whatever they wanted sort of thing.
Interviewer: Yeah. The aircrew would eat together.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes, at the first and then there would be the officers eat with the crews before they went.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They used to [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. What about [unclear] was the skipper wasn’t he?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Did he mix with the aircrew or not?
INTERVIEWEE: Not much.
Interviewer: Not socially.
INTERVIEWEE: No. No. The others all mixed together very well. He kept himself aloof. He was the boss.
Interviewer: Where did he come from [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: I think he was Welsh.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: I think [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was how he got his commission. Accountable for —
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. [unclear] out at night.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes. They were all night.
Interviewer: All night. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. Did you ever miss seeing them off?
INTERVIEWEE: Only the night before we were married.
Interviewer: That’s all the time.
INTERVIEWEE: Because we were supposed to be coming home on the 11th. They sent him back the night before. [unclear] they sent him back again to the same place the night after so I went and watched them going off. They looked as though they were never going to get off the ground they were that heavy.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Do you think it ever got to them mentally then or did they just get on with it?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, they just seemed to get on with it. They never, it never seemed to —
Interviewer: No.
INTERVIEWEE: Affect them at all.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: I mean the odd one had a nervous breakdown [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: You know it just didn’t seem to. I suppose they were young and it was danger.
Interviewer: Yeah. Exciting.
INTERVIEWEE: It was just exciting to be getting on with.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: It was a different thing when they were over the target.
Interviewer: What about when they got back then? What then?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, then they’d got to, the next morning they had to be debriefed you know. They had to —
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Had the debriefing. They had to say whether they’d made a success of it or not.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [unclear] So when did the aircrews then get to know when they were on ops? The same day or —
INTERVIEWEE: The same day.
Interviewer: The same day.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. You mentioned, what was that about the [Prestwick]
INTERVIEWEE: Well, there was one night when I was at [Prestwick] [unclear] I never did find out what it was.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: I wish I had because [unclear] ‘We had a [unclear] with us last night over the target.
Interviewer: Yes. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: It was just a, ‘by the way,’ you know.
Interviewer: Yeah. And you went to [pause] when you were going to get married.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Coming up from [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: You know, came to Lincoln.
INTERVIEWEE: We came to Lincoln actually. We had a friend coming —
Interviewer: [unclear] up to Lincoln.
INTERVIEWEE: Yes. The night before.
Interviewer: And he wasn’t there.
INTERVIEWEE: No. They said, ‘There’s a war on.’ We thought, ‘Oh, you silly beggars. We know there’s a war on.’ But evidently that was [unclear] they were flying that night.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So you went to, you went to —
INTERVIEWEE: Was it the Black Bull?
Interviewer: Bardney then.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. We stayed at the pub for the night.
Interviewer: Yeah. You stayed at the Black Horse. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: We came down about 11 o’clock the next morning and he said, ‘Love, I can’t go home today because we have to bomb again tonight.’ So I had him for about a half an hour and then he was off again for briefing. I was stuck at Bardney and watched him go off that night.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And then the next morning —
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: I still hadn’t heard from him. Well, I heard him come back about 3 o’clock I suppose. I heard the planes coming back.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: But then he had to be debriefed again the next morning so it was about half past eleven before we got to go to Lincoln.
Interviewer: So where was, so then you went into Lincoln with Frank.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Frank Sowerby.
INTERVIEWEE: So I went to Lincoln on the train. They’d rung up and said they couldn’t get any carnations so people brought a big bunch of carnations back. Here was me in my uniform and this bunch of carnations and these asleep on either side of me. I was sort of [unclear].
Interviewer: I know. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So [unclear] where did Frank stay? Frank Sowerby.
INTERVIEWEE: He stayed with Auntie Dot.
Interviewer: Oh, did he?
INTERVIEWEE: Uncle Brian and stayed Auntie Dot’s and I stayed at [unclear]
Interviewer: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So [pause] so after the wedding where did Frank go? Did he —
INTERVIEWEE: He came back to York with us and then went back [unclear] to Wallsend.
Interviewer: Oh, did he?
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. [unclear]
Interviewer: How much leave did he have then?
INTERVIEWEE: Seven days.
Interviewer: Seven days and then back on to it.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Then six weeks later one of Roy’s lungs collapsed and he was taken to Rauceby.
Interviewer: Really? Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was the end of his Air Force career of course because it was one hundred percent disability.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He was off work for a year and started work after that. He had a disability pension for ten years.
Interviewer: Oh, I see. How long was he in hospital for?
INTERVIEWEE: Nineteen weeks.
INTERVIEWEE: Nineteen weeks.
Interviewer: Yeah. So, I used, I was able to go from Bruntingthorpe but I had to hitchhike because it was at the time of the invasion and you weren’t allowed to go outside without [unclear] so I used to have to hitchhike to Rauceby to see him.
INTERVIEWEE: Did you now?
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. That was before it was a hospital.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was a sort of hospital for airmen.
Interviewer: Well, it was for everybody there. There was the burns place for the people who had been burned, TB patients and all the aircrew. There were a couple there actually.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It must have been an very big sight really.
INTERVIEWEE: It was you know. We went to the pictures one day and there was this poor man that was burned to pieces you know.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: It was awful to see them.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And yet they didn’t seem to lose their spirit. They could still take a bit of a joke.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They finished up at [unclear] and sold them back to people.
Interviewer: Oh dear.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Yeah. He made you that doll.
Interviewer: That’s right. The doll. Yes. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: They taught them to do things like that [unclear] that you know.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He did quite a few when he came home and he used to sell them.
Interviewer: Did you say they slept outside or something?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, on a balcony.
Interviewer: On a balcony.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. They were on a covered balcony.
Interviewer: Open air.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. Open air. Well, the TB people were on one side and Roy was on the other because there was [pause] his lung had collapsed but it wasn’t TB.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: So I think he still had to have the open air.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. Did you ever think that was something to do with flying then [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Well, I think it was probably, you know the cold.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: And he’d come on leave and he said he had a pain but he wouldn’t go to the doctors.
Interviewer: No.
INTERVIEWEE: If he had gone to the doctor when he first started with this pain but instead of that he came back to the camp with me for one day and then he biked from Lincoln to Bardney. [unclear] rang me up to tell me that after he’d been at hospital. He’d collapsed when he got back. When he got back to Bardney he collapsed and was actually moved to hospital. That was that.
Interviewer: Right. Yeah. That was the end of his flying career.
INTERVIEWEE: It was pleurisy.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear] with pleurisy.
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Of course they didn’t have the drugs in them days you know.
Interviewer: No, that’s right.
INTERVIEWEE: So that was the end of his flying career.
Interviewer: Yes. Yes.
INTERVIEWEE: After that of course he came back. He did a lot for the aircrew, chairman of the aircrews RAFA for years.
Interviewer: Yes, that’s right.
INTERVIEWEE: Collecting [all week] as you know.
Interviewer: Yes. Yes.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. So then when he came out where did he work then?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, we went to [unclear] for a while and then we went down to Kent. We lived in Kent for two years and then we came back and found that place [unclear]
Interviewer: Before that didn’t you go to —
INTERVIEWEE: Oh yes. We went up to Wallsend where he did a [unclear] when he was able to work. They put him on [unclear] engineering at Wallsend and that’s when he saw Frank. He was walking down the street he saw this RAF officer, chased him and it was Frank.
Interviewer: Frank Sowerby.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. So after that we used to go to [his farm]
Interviewer: That was amazing.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. You know you wouldn’t have thought that at the time would you?
Interviewer: You really wouldn’t. All that way. To meet him in —
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. That’s incredible wasn’t it? Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah.
Interviewer: Then where did Frank go? Did you know? [unclear] He served in the RAF for some time.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. He was in the RAF for quite some time and then he was a salesman. I’ve forgotten what type of sales. He was a sales for a [company when he signed up I think. Whether he went back to that [unclear].
Interviewer: So did he do, did he do his [crafts] then in engineering?
INTERVIEWEE: Well, he did and then it was too heavy for him you know. So that was a waste of [unclear] and then he went back to [unclear] so that was the end of his [unclear]That was the end of his going back to Wallsend. [unclear] a bedsitter up there.
Interviewer: Yeah. Nice. And then you came to [unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. And then we went down to Kent after that.
Interviewer: Down to Kent.
INTERVIEWEE: Yeah. A lovely house. I mean we lived with his mum for a while and then a farmer let us have a cottage. We lived there until the old farmer had a heart attack and we got three weeks to get out so we got a bedsitter. We got a house [unclear] it was Bethany School for Boys.
Interviewer: Oh yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: He’d been headmaster of Bethany School for Boys. And we stayed there until we came back on to the farm.
Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: That was when, that was when we started [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah.
INTERVIEWEE: [unclear]
Interviewer: Yeah. That’s right.
[unclear]
INTERVIEWEE: Then we started the shop and that was it.
Interviewer: Yeah. That was it. Yeah.
[recording paused]
Interviewer: The late Sergeant Roy [unclear] wireless operator/air gunner of 9 Squadron Lancasters RAF Bardney in Lincolnshire. This is Roy saying a few words at a charity fund raising event on the fiftieth anniversary of the Battle of Britain.
[unclear]
Collection
Citation
“Interview with an anonymous WAAF,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed July 12, 2026, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/52906.