Conversation with Norman Didwell - photographs
Title
Conversation with Norman Didwell - photographs
Description
Norman discusses photographs and names of personnel on them. He also mentions plans for book; 99 Squadron association; how various memorabilia, including logbook was obtained.
Language
Type
Format
00:29:27 audio recording
Conforms To
Publisher
Rights
This content is available under a CC BY-NC 4.0 International license (Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0). It has been published ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre. For more information, visit https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/ and https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/legal.
Identifier
SBondS-DidwellNv10005
Transcription
ND: There is a good photograph of him you know in one of the Wellington books where he’s picked one of the ground crew off the field it was. I think it was Dick [Slaine] [laughs] sat him on the bloody tailplane.
SB: Really?
ND: Now, before we start.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Before we start I’d like you to focus on that. Well, you can, you can take a photograph of this. I think it’s well worth copying because I’ve only got that one.
SB: Oh, I’ll photograph it. What is it?
ND: You can have a look. It’s the second time she’s had a go. Would you like this?
SB: Oh, not half. Really?
ND: Yes.
SB: Sure? Oh, lovely. Yes. Thank you very much Norman.
ND: It’s a copy off of that.
SB: Yeah, I realise that. Yeah. Fine.
ND: I thought you’d like that.
SB: That’s very kind of you. Thank you.
ND: I thought you’d like this. This is, do you remember this model?
SB: Yes, I do. Yeah.
ND: 99 Squadron.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Right. Have that. And you [pause] yeah you might as well have the map. I won’t need it now. And these are the 99 Squadron people that flew it. It was, it had done, I believe, somebody told me, one of the old boys from [unclear] it did a hundred ops and it got destroyed.
SB: Oh right. Oh. That could be quite interesting. What I’m going to do in the book I’m going to pick one or two Wimpies. Wimpies that lasted a long time. Did a lot.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Yeah. And list all their ops. Whatever. What happened to them. So that’s, that’s a contender then isn’t it?
ND: There’s two sheets there.
SB: Yeah. I see that. Yeah. I’ll photograph it.
ND: Jim Cameron who was mentioned on there. DFM.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Jim was chairman for 99 Squadron Association for donkeys’ years and he did the last set. When I packed up I said, ‘Jim somebody else has got to do this. I’m getting too old for this bloody lark as secretary.’ So, he took it on and done this [unclear] and he died two years ago.
SB: That’s right. Right. I think I will, yeah. I think I’ve heard of this before. I’ve not actually seen it before though. I’ll take a picture.
ND: [laughs] Oh dear, eh? Ginger Rogers. Ginger Rockwell. Yes. He did.
SB: Well, you’re going to have to sign this Norman. It’s still 99 Squadron.
ND: Yeah. Right.
SB: You’ll have to sign that for me. And the other thing I wanted to, you keep on, I shall photograph is your photograph of the Wimpies.
ND: Yeah.
SB: And all the —
ND: Yeah.
SB: Chaps in front of it.
ND: Yeah.
SB: I must photograph that.
ND: Ok.
SB: So I’ll do that in a minute.
ND: [unclear] I thought 138 Squadron. He told me when he, when he crashed, when he was shot down he was slung out of the cockpit and he buried his head in the bloody sand. He nearly choked to death.
SB: Oh God [laughs] Really?
ND: Right. Now, where do you want to photograph all this? Look at it. I’ll get —
SB: Well, I mean it’s nice and light in here. That would do fine.
ND: Oh, we can put a light on as well.
SB: Oh no. No. That’s [pause] it will be alright without a light probably.
ND: You just, you just fly along with it.
SB: Right.
ND: I always get laid out when I kneel. I’ll sign this little unit or whatever.
SB: Yeah. Ok.
ND: I’ll do it in a moment. What, do you want it? In pencil really. That’s better.
SB: Yeah. That doesn’t take pen.
ND: Right.
SB: What have you got?
ND: Now, he must have had about three or four logbooks but this is from 1936 to 1939.
SB: Right.
ND: The rest of them were ‘36 to ‘44.
SB: Right. Oh, fantastic.
ND: Right.
SB: Right. Well, let’s have a look at that.
ND: Well, you’ve got copies of that I think.
SB: Yes, I have. Yeah.
ND: Yeah. And there’s a bit about Popeye Lucas because he knew Pick because he came over with the Royal New Zealand Air Force.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And before the war when they bought thirty Wimpies or ordered thirty Wimpies the war broke out and of course he was one of the 75 New Zealand Squadron fellas but he knew Pick through Pick being instructing on 214 Training Squadron for 3 Group.
SB: Right.
ND: Prior to the war convert on to Wellingtons.
SB: Right. Right.
ND: And then he was at Hunsdon. 48 Squadron at Hunsdon.
SB: On Mossies.
ND: Yeah. So, there’s that.
SB: Right.
ND: Right.
SB: Yeah. Well, I’m wanting to go through this. Take my time.
ND: You bet. Yeah. I’ll leave it with you while I sign this.
SB: Yeah. Ok.
ND: And then you come across in a little while.
SB: Alright. I’ll just get cracking on this then.
ND: Theres a story behind this [unclear] and I can’t [unclear] [laughs] this signature.
SB: Oh I know. Completely illegible. I know.
ND: I’ll do it pencil.
SB: Yeah.
ND: I’ve got a pencil somewhere or I did have. Here we are. I’d better do it, flatten it out.
[pause]
ND: Although I wasn’t on the squadron when they had Libs.
SB: No, I know. But you were on 99.
ND: I did work on Libs you see in Transport Command Conversion Unit.
SB: Oh right. Where was that?
ND: Kilo 40.
SB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
ND: Kilo 40 in [unclear]
SB: So what’s the story about how you got hold of these copies then, Norm?
ND: What? The paintings?
SB: No. These. The book. Pick’s log.
ND: What’s the story? When Dorothy Pickard came over to sell his decorations which she was forced to because she hadn’t got no money —
SB: Yeah.
ND: In that in England.
SB: Right.
ND: And what she’d got in South Africa Mugabe was going to take fifteen hundred quid out.
SB: Dear.
ND: [unclear]
SB: Yeah.
ND: She moved to, wanted to move near her son when her health got a bit dodgy and —
SB: I’m not surprised.
ND: Anyway, she said, ‘Norman, do you like this,’ and a copy of this logbook. She’d only got the one with her at the time.
SB: Right.
ND: And because I think he’d got four actually but she’d left one, left three at home and brought the one of his original.
SB: Right. Yeah.
ND: You see.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And so we, the bloke at [unclear] said, ‘Oh, I’ll do them for you.’ And he said so Dorothy said, ‘Well, we can’t stop.’ He said, ‘Well, I’ll send them on.’ She said, ‘Well, send them on to Norman please.’ So she said —
SB: Right.
ND: ’Norman, [unclear] all you can.’ And that’s what —
SB: Right.
ND: How I got them. That, he’s a nice chap who I’ve just spoken to. He’s about what? He’s about seventy six now this Michael.
SB: Yeah.
ND: He was head of the family business you know. You know the Pickard family owned Mecca?
SB: Oh no. I didn’t know that.
ND: Didn’t you know that?
SB: No. Right.
ND: Nine hundred, worth nine hundred billion when it was sold.
SB: Blimey.
ND: And Michael never got really what he should have had out of it.
SB: Did he not?
ND: Yeah. Because he wanted to try and buy Pick’s medals.
SB: Oh, of course. I suppose he would.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Of course he would. Yeah.
ND: What should I put on here then?
SB: Oh, just sign it.
ND: Just write Norman Didwell, Ground Crew, 99 Squadron 1939-41.
SB: That sounds good to me.
[pause]
ND: Not a very good pencil. Sorry. I’ve got some more. Pen fades doesn’t it?
SB: That’s right. It does.
ND: Yeah. I thought if I left a message with you you’d —
SB: Yeah. I picked that up.
ND: Sort that out.
SB: That’s no problem at all.
ND: I’m glad about that. It’s funny. Somebody came. Somebody came on the phone the other day and his name was mentioned. I’m sure I’ve got some more pencils. You know, I’ve got plenty of pens and no pencils. I wonder if they need sharpening.
SB: That might help.
[pause]
SB: Harrows. Blimey.
[pause]
ND: It’s the paper I think that isn’t showing up.
SB: Yes. It probably is.
ND: I’ve got a very nice black pen.
SB: Well, that would probably be alright. If you can’t find a pencil that would be alright.
ND: This one might be better.
SB: Ok.
[pause]
ND: Talk about —
SB: Oh, Jack —
ND: Jack isn’t it?
SB: Not half. Yeah. Dreadful. Are you going on Friday?
ND: Yeah. Are you?
SB: Oh yeah. Yeah and Christine and Elizabeth.
ND: It’s the crematorium first.
SB: That’s right.
ND: And then the church afterwards at [unclear]
SB: That’s right.
ND: That’s the wrong way around isn’t it?
SB: I know. It is a bit odd isn’t it? But still there you go.
ND: But Ron said it was 10.45.
SB: Yes, that’s right.
ND: At the crematorium.
SB: Yeah. That’s right.
ND: Thank God for that. It’s not too early.
[long pause]
ND: There you are then.
SB: Lovely. Thank you very much.
ND: And I just put down ground crew 1939-41.
SB: Right. Smashing.
ND: It’s a good pen that actually—
SB: Yeah. It’s not bad at all that is it?
ND: The whole story of it. One of the crew that flew. Cameron. I think he said it did quite a few ops.
SB: Yeah. What news of your moving then, Norm? Anything?
ND: I’m [unclear] this house on the market and he definitely wants this one.
SB: Right.
ND: I think he’s desperate for four bedrooms at a price that he can afford.
SB: Right.
ND: And I’ve given them a bit of a good deal. I can clear about a hundred and fifty thousand profit.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which I should be able to do easy after I’ve paid so many [pause] it cost me about I think about fifteen to twenty. Fifteen. [unclear] one thousand fifteen thousand [pause] fifteen thousand. Oh, I worked it out somehow.
SB: What? The estate agent’s commission.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Do you mean?
ND: By the time I pay, I pay a ninety nine year lease on an apartment.
SB: Yeah.
ND: I should end up with being able to bank about a hundred. Well over a hundred thousand.
SB: Oh, that’s alright isn’t it?
ND: And that’s after all expenses.
SB: Yeah. Well that’s —
ND: That would suit me.
SB: Whereabouts is the place you’re going into then?
ND: Right in the middle of town more or less.
SB: Oh right.
ND: It’s got, it’s off the road at the main bypass. You know, Leighton Road.
SB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
ND: Right. The bypass. [West] Street and it’s just near a pedestrian crossing behind my, behind my solicitor’s offices.
SB: Oh right.
ND: And they’ve got a secure car park.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Etcetera. Etcetera. So I was happy about that.
SB: Yeah, that sounds alright. How much room are you going to have in there then?
ND: I’ll have a lounge, right.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which comes, come dining room as well.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Kitchen, all fitted.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Bathroom. And that’ll do. That’s all I want.
SB: Yeah. Very good. Sounds great [pause] He flew a variety of different types didn’t he?
ND: Yeah. Yeah.
SB: That’s amazing.
ND: I’ve seen something that [pause] he was very friendly with Geoffrey de Havilland I believe.
SB: Oh, was he?
ND: Yeah.
SB: Yeah.
ND: I don’t know what that is [pause] Quite a bit of interesting information.
SB: Oh, there’s a lot of interesting information. Yeah. Definitely.
ND: So you retire next week then.
SB: Yeah, well this week.
ND: This one.
SB: I’m in work, I’m in work tomorrow and Wednesday and that’s it.
ND: That’s it.
SB: Wednesday is my last day. Yeah.
ND: And then you’re going cruising.
SB: Well, once I’ve got my Wimpy book done. Yeah.
ND: Oh yeah because you’re doing the Wimpy book.
SB: That’s priority at the moment. Get that sorted out.
ND: I think you’ve had all the photographs I’ve got of Wimpies haven’t you?
SB: I think so. There’s just that one at Mildenhall I want to copy. I think I’ve seen the rest.
ND: Now, that’s one in the —
SB: The one in the hall with, with —
ND: That’s right. [unclear] Newmarket.
SB: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was —
ND: Because when he painted it it’s got somewhere in East Anglia.
SB: No. Not the painting. The photograph of all the squadron in front of the two Wimpies.
ND: Oh yeah. That one. Yeah. That’s original. Yeah. Oh yeah. Do you reckon you’ll be able to photograph that alright?
SB: Well I’ll have a go.
[pause]
ND: Yeah. If you want one of this one as well we can easily take it down.
SB: I’ll have a look in a sec. I’m nearly at the end of this now.
ND: Yeah. Michael is looking forward to these.
SB: I bet he is.
ND: Yeah.
SB: So he’s not seen these before then?
ND: No.
SB: Oh right.
ND: He was, him and his cousin Cedric Hardwick, Michael Hardwick the actor.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Michael, Edward died about three years ago now.
SB: Right.
ND: They were, they worshipped Pick. They were schoolboys you see.
SB: Right. Yeah.
ND: They came to a couple of reunions.
SB: Oh, did they?
ND: Ahum.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Because Edward did his National Service in the Air Force.
SB: Oh right.
ND: Yeah and Michael was in the Fusiliers.
SB: Yeah.
ND: They were commissioned of course.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Well, there you are then.
SB: Lovely thanks for that.
ND: Now do you want the envelope? Well, no because I want that.
SB: No, you want the envelope.
ND: Yeah.
SB: To keep them in.
ND: Oh, yeah. Something I’ve got the picture. You’ve got all this stuff now. You’ve got all this.
SB: Yeah.
ND: We’ve done all this.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Let’s see what we have in here that might be of interest [pause] Now, that was interesting wasn’t it?
SB: Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting.
ND: He was very appreciative you know. He said, ‘I don’t know how to thank you. I don’t know how to thank you.’
SB: Really?
ND: Yeah. So that’s all yours, Steve.
SB: Yeah. Thank you.
ND: And then you can take that paragraph in a minute.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Would it be better out in the garden.
SB: Well, we’ll see. The light’s very good in here and that’s a super little camera.
ND: Is it?
SB: It’ll cope with pretty much anything so probably in here would be best. We’ll have to see.
ND: Right.
SB: See how it goes.
ND: Here you are, Steve. Put it in there. There you are Michael. You can have that on Saturday.
[pause]
ND: Right. Let’s take it down then. Might go to [unclear] today. She came today.
SB: Right. Let’s take it down and see how we go.
ND: She was an Irish girl. Little kiddies. Now, do you want it —
SB: I’m just trying to think. The thing of course to watch with these is reflection but let’s see what it looks like.
ND: Yeah.
SB: We’ll have to do it in stages.
ND: I mean, you do —
SB: I think that’s going to be alright.
ND: Do you want a cup of coffee?
SB: Yeah, that would be lovely. Yes please, Norm.
[long pause]
SB: Right. Let’s have a look. See what I can find. Oh yeah. They’re alright you see.
ND: Marvellous. That’s a cracking camera isn’t it?
SB: Yeah.
ND: Oh dear oh dear.
SB: Fantastic isn’t it really.
ND: I’ll tell you what I wish I could remember all the names. It’s so long ago now.
SB: So this is the CO obviously right in the middle.
ND: That is Wing Commander Walker MC DFC from the First World War, ex-Royal Flying Corps. Where is he? Where are you? Where are you Titch Walker? There he is.
SB: Yeah.
ND: That I think is Flight Commander Magee. Squadron Leader Magee, a New Zealander.
SB: So the next right as we look at it. Yeah.
ND: And that is Griffiths.
SB: Next left is Griffiths.
ND: Yeah. Or is that? That could be old Pussycat.
SB: Oh right.
ND: It’s so long ago.
SB: Right.
ND: That was Stanley.
SB: On the left.
ND: Flight Lieutenant Stanley. Now, Kirby-Green is on here somewhere. Herrington. Flight Lieutenant Herrington.
SB: Four left.
ND: Kirby-Green.
SB: Four right.
ND: Slim [Dunn]
SB: What next to this?
ND: Yeah.
SB: Next to, this is a Vickers chap I suppose is it?
ND: Yeah. Yeah.
SB: This chap in his civvies next to him.
ND: Yeah. Yeah. That’s [Slim] flight mech engines. A very good footballer. Drowned in India. That was the engineer warrant officer. Oh, I forget his name now. That was Chiefy Harvey. Sticky Glue [laughs]
SB: [laughs] That’s just —
ND: Sticky Glue. [pause] Chiefy Williams. Air Force Cross before the war.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Oh, it’s so long ago. Flight Sergeant [Darling.] But he was finished his flying career as a sergeant pilot and he was ex-Halton. One of a group. First entry Halton.
SB: Oh right. Right.
ND: He was the ground, flight sergeant technician in charge of B flight.
SB: Right.
ND: Oh dear.
SB: Where are you then?
ND: I’m not on there.
SB: You’re not on this one.
ND: I never joined the squadron until May.
SB: Oh, May ’39. Right.
ND: 1939.
SB: Ok.
ND: But I remember them all. Where’s Bickerstaff? My eyes are not all that good now. Do you know I used to be able to name them all at one time. Of course, you see seventy of them ground crew were dead before February ’40 because they were A.G.s.
SB: Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh dear.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Terrible isn’t it?
ND: What we lost. We lost what two, four, six. We lost six, eight officers on December the 14th.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which were you know —
SB: Yeah. The Heligoland thing.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Yeah. That’s your first Wimpy isn’t it?
ND: That is the first Wimpy.
SB: 4215.
ND: L4215. That’s the first.
SB: Yeah.
ND: The fourth Wellington built.
SB: Right.
ND: It was said.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And the first one delivered to the Royal Air Force.
SB: Yeah. Yeah.
ND: So that is a historical photograph isn’t it?
SB: It certainly is. Yeah. I’ve never seen that anywhere else.
ND: And I was very lucky when [pause] where is he? Taffy Williams.
SB: Not Welsh by any chance [laughs]
ND: Corporal Taffy Williams he was [pause] I think he was a fitter 1. He was ex-Halton but he was a widower, no children and he lived in Lincolnshire.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And I kept in touch with him and then we suddenly had a notification from the lady that used to look after him. More than often his next door neighbour to say he’d died.
SB: Yeah.
ND: So I couldn’t manage. I was working at the time. I couldn’t get up to the funeral but one or two of the blokes went who were retired. But she went through his stuff and she found a rolled up doings. See.
SB: Oh.
ND: All rolled up.
SB: Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.
ND: And so she sent me it. But the best one I had I’ve given to the squadron.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which I was given by Jock [pause] oh bloody hell. Jock’s lady who looked after him. He was another bachelor or widower. I can’t think of his name.
SB: No. That’s alright.
ND: Married a woman in, married a girl in Newmarket.
SB: Yeah.
ND: When we were there and he died with no relatives. She died before him and the lady that looked after them pair she sent this the good one that I gave to the squadron.
SB: Right.
ND: Because I had this before but I had the one from, oh what was its bloody name? I’ll tell you, in a Wimpy book you see a bloke demonstrating how to get out of the rear turret.
SB: Oh yes.
ND: That was him.
SB: Right.
ND: I can’t think of his bloody name. A Scotsman. Oh, Christ almighty.
SB: Don’t worry. I’m sure it’ll come back to you.
ND: My memory is getting bad.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Mind you that is a long time ago you know.
SB: Well, it is a long time ago, Norman. You’re right. Yeah.
ND: Yeah.
SB: It bloody well is.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Right. Well I’d better put this back then.
ND: Yeah. You can put that back. You’ve got all your gear. Don’t forget these, Steve. Oh I’ll make you a coffee. I’ve put the kettle on. I don’t mind drinking coffee for people because I don’t drink coffee anymore. I’m not supposed to.
SB: Right. Ok.
ND: My cups are up there.
SB: Yeah. Alright, well I’ll do that.
[voices go off into the kitchen and talk about the house]
SB: Really?
ND: Now, before we start.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Before we start I’d like you to focus on that. Well, you can, you can take a photograph of this. I think it’s well worth copying because I’ve only got that one.
SB: Oh, I’ll photograph it. What is it?
ND: You can have a look. It’s the second time she’s had a go. Would you like this?
SB: Oh, not half. Really?
ND: Yes.
SB: Sure? Oh, lovely. Yes. Thank you very much Norman.
ND: It’s a copy off of that.
SB: Yeah, I realise that. Yeah. Fine.
ND: I thought you’d like that.
SB: That’s very kind of you. Thank you.
ND: I thought you’d like this. This is, do you remember this model?
SB: Yes, I do. Yeah.
ND: 99 Squadron.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Right. Have that. And you [pause] yeah you might as well have the map. I won’t need it now. And these are the 99 Squadron people that flew it. It was, it had done, I believe, somebody told me, one of the old boys from [unclear] it did a hundred ops and it got destroyed.
SB: Oh right. Oh. That could be quite interesting. What I’m going to do in the book I’m going to pick one or two Wimpies. Wimpies that lasted a long time. Did a lot.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Yeah. And list all their ops. Whatever. What happened to them. So that’s, that’s a contender then isn’t it?
ND: There’s two sheets there.
SB: Yeah. I see that. Yeah. I’ll photograph it.
ND: Jim Cameron who was mentioned on there. DFM.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Jim was chairman for 99 Squadron Association for donkeys’ years and he did the last set. When I packed up I said, ‘Jim somebody else has got to do this. I’m getting too old for this bloody lark as secretary.’ So, he took it on and done this [unclear] and he died two years ago.
SB: That’s right. Right. I think I will, yeah. I think I’ve heard of this before. I’ve not actually seen it before though. I’ll take a picture.
ND: [laughs] Oh dear, eh? Ginger Rogers. Ginger Rockwell. Yes. He did.
SB: Well, you’re going to have to sign this Norman. It’s still 99 Squadron.
ND: Yeah. Right.
SB: You’ll have to sign that for me. And the other thing I wanted to, you keep on, I shall photograph is your photograph of the Wimpies.
ND: Yeah.
SB: And all the —
ND: Yeah.
SB: Chaps in front of it.
ND: Yeah.
SB: I must photograph that.
ND: Ok.
SB: So I’ll do that in a minute.
ND: [unclear] I thought 138 Squadron. He told me when he, when he crashed, when he was shot down he was slung out of the cockpit and he buried his head in the bloody sand. He nearly choked to death.
SB: Oh God [laughs] Really?
ND: Right. Now, where do you want to photograph all this? Look at it. I’ll get —
SB: Well, I mean it’s nice and light in here. That would do fine.
ND: Oh, we can put a light on as well.
SB: Oh no. No. That’s [pause] it will be alright without a light probably.
ND: You just, you just fly along with it.
SB: Right.
ND: I always get laid out when I kneel. I’ll sign this little unit or whatever.
SB: Yeah. Ok.
ND: I’ll do it in a moment. What, do you want it? In pencil really. That’s better.
SB: Yeah. That doesn’t take pen.
ND: Right.
SB: What have you got?
ND: Now, he must have had about three or four logbooks but this is from 1936 to 1939.
SB: Right.
ND: The rest of them were ‘36 to ‘44.
SB: Right. Oh, fantastic.
ND: Right.
SB: Right. Well, let’s have a look at that.
ND: Well, you’ve got copies of that I think.
SB: Yes, I have. Yeah.
ND: Yeah. And there’s a bit about Popeye Lucas because he knew Pick because he came over with the Royal New Zealand Air Force.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And before the war when they bought thirty Wimpies or ordered thirty Wimpies the war broke out and of course he was one of the 75 New Zealand Squadron fellas but he knew Pick through Pick being instructing on 214 Training Squadron for 3 Group.
SB: Right.
ND: Prior to the war convert on to Wellingtons.
SB: Right. Right.
ND: And then he was at Hunsdon. 48 Squadron at Hunsdon.
SB: On Mossies.
ND: Yeah. So, there’s that.
SB: Right.
ND: Right.
SB: Yeah. Well, I’m wanting to go through this. Take my time.
ND: You bet. Yeah. I’ll leave it with you while I sign this.
SB: Yeah. Ok.
ND: And then you come across in a little while.
SB: Alright. I’ll just get cracking on this then.
ND: Theres a story behind this [unclear] and I can’t [unclear] [laughs] this signature.
SB: Oh I know. Completely illegible. I know.
ND: I’ll do it pencil.
SB: Yeah.
ND: I’ve got a pencil somewhere or I did have. Here we are. I’d better do it, flatten it out.
[pause]
ND: Although I wasn’t on the squadron when they had Libs.
SB: No, I know. But you were on 99.
ND: I did work on Libs you see in Transport Command Conversion Unit.
SB: Oh right. Where was that?
ND: Kilo 40.
SB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
ND: Kilo 40 in [unclear]
SB: So what’s the story about how you got hold of these copies then, Norm?
ND: What? The paintings?
SB: No. These. The book. Pick’s log.
ND: What’s the story? When Dorothy Pickard came over to sell his decorations which she was forced to because she hadn’t got no money —
SB: Yeah.
ND: In that in England.
SB: Right.
ND: And what she’d got in South Africa Mugabe was going to take fifteen hundred quid out.
SB: Dear.
ND: [unclear]
SB: Yeah.
ND: She moved to, wanted to move near her son when her health got a bit dodgy and —
SB: I’m not surprised.
ND: Anyway, she said, ‘Norman, do you like this,’ and a copy of this logbook. She’d only got the one with her at the time.
SB: Right.
ND: And because I think he’d got four actually but she’d left one, left three at home and brought the one of his original.
SB: Right. Yeah.
ND: You see.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And so we, the bloke at [unclear] said, ‘Oh, I’ll do them for you.’ And he said so Dorothy said, ‘Well, we can’t stop.’ He said, ‘Well, I’ll send them on.’ She said, ‘Well, send them on to Norman please.’ So she said —
SB: Right.
ND: ’Norman, [unclear] all you can.’ And that’s what —
SB: Right.
ND: How I got them. That, he’s a nice chap who I’ve just spoken to. He’s about what? He’s about seventy six now this Michael.
SB: Yeah.
ND: He was head of the family business you know. You know the Pickard family owned Mecca?
SB: Oh no. I didn’t know that.
ND: Didn’t you know that?
SB: No. Right.
ND: Nine hundred, worth nine hundred billion when it was sold.
SB: Blimey.
ND: And Michael never got really what he should have had out of it.
SB: Did he not?
ND: Yeah. Because he wanted to try and buy Pick’s medals.
SB: Oh, of course. I suppose he would.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Of course he would. Yeah.
ND: What should I put on here then?
SB: Oh, just sign it.
ND: Just write Norman Didwell, Ground Crew, 99 Squadron 1939-41.
SB: That sounds good to me.
[pause]
ND: Not a very good pencil. Sorry. I’ve got some more. Pen fades doesn’t it?
SB: That’s right. It does.
ND: Yeah. I thought if I left a message with you you’d —
SB: Yeah. I picked that up.
ND: Sort that out.
SB: That’s no problem at all.
ND: I’m glad about that. It’s funny. Somebody came. Somebody came on the phone the other day and his name was mentioned. I’m sure I’ve got some more pencils. You know, I’ve got plenty of pens and no pencils. I wonder if they need sharpening.
SB: That might help.
[pause]
SB: Harrows. Blimey.
[pause]
ND: It’s the paper I think that isn’t showing up.
SB: Yes. It probably is.
ND: I’ve got a very nice black pen.
SB: Well, that would probably be alright. If you can’t find a pencil that would be alright.
ND: This one might be better.
SB: Ok.
[pause]
ND: Talk about —
SB: Oh, Jack —
ND: Jack isn’t it?
SB: Not half. Yeah. Dreadful. Are you going on Friday?
ND: Yeah. Are you?
SB: Oh yeah. Yeah and Christine and Elizabeth.
ND: It’s the crematorium first.
SB: That’s right.
ND: And then the church afterwards at [unclear]
SB: That’s right.
ND: That’s the wrong way around isn’t it?
SB: I know. It is a bit odd isn’t it? But still there you go.
ND: But Ron said it was 10.45.
SB: Yes, that’s right.
ND: At the crematorium.
SB: Yeah. That’s right.
ND: Thank God for that. It’s not too early.
[long pause]
ND: There you are then.
SB: Lovely. Thank you very much.
ND: And I just put down ground crew 1939-41.
SB: Right. Smashing.
ND: It’s a good pen that actually—
SB: Yeah. It’s not bad at all that is it?
ND: The whole story of it. One of the crew that flew. Cameron. I think he said it did quite a few ops.
SB: Yeah. What news of your moving then, Norm? Anything?
ND: I’m [unclear] this house on the market and he definitely wants this one.
SB: Right.
ND: I think he’s desperate for four bedrooms at a price that he can afford.
SB: Right.
ND: And I’ve given them a bit of a good deal. I can clear about a hundred and fifty thousand profit.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which I should be able to do easy after I’ve paid so many [pause] it cost me about I think about fifteen to twenty. Fifteen. [unclear] one thousand fifteen thousand [pause] fifteen thousand. Oh, I worked it out somehow.
SB: What? The estate agent’s commission.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Do you mean?
ND: By the time I pay, I pay a ninety nine year lease on an apartment.
SB: Yeah.
ND: I should end up with being able to bank about a hundred. Well over a hundred thousand.
SB: Oh, that’s alright isn’t it?
ND: And that’s after all expenses.
SB: Yeah. Well that’s —
ND: That would suit me.
SB: Whereabouts is the place you’re going into then?
ND: Right in the middle of town more or less.
SB: Oh right.
ND: It’s got, it’s off the road at the main bypass. You know, Leighton Road.
SB: Oh yeah. Yeah.
ND: Right. The bypass. [West] Street and it’s just near a pedestrian crossing behind my, behind my solicitor’s offices.
SB: Oh right.
ND: And they’ve got a secure car park.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Etcetera. Etcetera. So I was happy about that.
SB: Yeah, that sounds alright. How much room are you going to have in there then?
ND: I’ll have a lounge, right.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which comes, come dining room as well.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Kitchen, all fitted.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Bathroom. And that’ll do. That’s all I want.
SB: Yeah. Very good. Sounds great [pause] He flew a variety of different types didn’t he?
ND: Yeah. Yeah.
SB: That’s amazing.
ND: I’ve seen something that [pause] he was very friendly with Geoffrey de Havilland I believe.
SB: Oh, was he?
ND: Yeah.
SB: Yeah.
ND: I don’t know what that is [pause] Quite a bit of interesting information.
SB: Oh, there’s a lot of interesting information. Yeah. Definitely.
ND: So you retire next week then.
SB: Yeah, well this week.
ND: This one.
SB: I’m in work, I’m in work tomorrow and Wednesday and that’s it.
ND: That’s it.
SB: Wednesday is my last day. Yeah.
ND: And then you’re going cruising.
SB: Well, once I’ve got my Wimpy book done. Yeah.
ND: Oh yeah because you’re doing the Wimpy book.
SB: That’s priority at the moment. Get that sorted out.
ND: I think you’ve had all the photographs I’ve got of Wimpies haven’t you?
SB: I think so. There’s just that one at Mildenhall I want to copy. I think I’ve seen the rest.
ND: Now, that’s one in the —
SB: The one in the hall with, with —
ND: That’s right. [unclear] Newmarket.
SB: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was —
ND: Because when he painted it it’s got somewhere in East Anglia.
SB: No. Not the painting. The photograph of all the squadron in front of the two Wimpies.
ND: Oh yeah. That one. Yeah. That’s original. Yeah. Oh yeah. Do you reckon you’ll be able to photograph that alright?
SB: Well I’ll have a go.
[pause]
ND: Yeah. If you want one of this one as well we can easily take it down.
SB: I’ll have a look in a sec. I’m nearly at the end of this now.
ND: Yeah. Michael is looking forward to these.
SB: I bet he is.
ND: Yeah.
SB: So he’s not seen these before then?
ND: No.
SB: Oh right.
ND: He was, him and his cousin Cedric Hardwick, Michael Hardwick the actor.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Michael, Edward died about three years ago now.
SB: Right.
ND: They were, they worshipped Pick. They were schoolboys you see.
SB: Right. Yeah.
ND: They came to a couple of reunions.
SB: Oh, did they?
ND: Ahum.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Because Edward did his National Service in the Air Force.
SB: Oh right.
ND: Yeah and Michael was in the Fusiliers.
SB: Yeah.
ND: They were commissioned of course.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Well, there you are then.
SB: Lovely thanks for that.
ND: Now do you want the envelope? Well, no because I want that.
SB: No, you want the envelope.
ND: Yeah.
SB: To keep them in.
ND: Oh, yeah. Something I’ve got the picture. You’ve got all this stuff now. You’ve got all this.
SB: Yeah.
ND: We’ve done all this.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Let’s see what we have in here that might be of interest [pause] Now, that was interesting wasn’t it?
SB: Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting.
ND: He was very appreciative you know. He said, ‘I don’t know how to thank you. I don’t know how to thank you.’
SB: Really?
ND: Yeah. So that’s all yours, Steve.
SB: Yeah. Thank you.
ND: And then you can take that paragraph in a minute.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Would it be better out in the garden.
SB: Well, we’ll see. The light’s very good in here and that’s a super little camera.
ND: Is it?
SB: It’ll cope with pretty much anything so probably in here would be best. We’ll have to see.
ND: Right.
SB: See how it goes.
ND: Here you are, Steve. Put it in there. There you are Michael. You can have that on Saturday.
[pause]
ND: Right. Let’s take it down then. Might go to [unclear] today. She came today.
SB: Right. Let’s take it down and see how we go.
ND: She was an Irish girl. Little kiddies. Now, do you want it —
SB: I’m just trying to think. The thing of course to watch with these is reflection but let’s see what it looks like.
ND: Yeah.
SB: We’ll have to do it in stages.
ND: I mean, you do —
SB: I think that’s going to be alright.
ND: Do you want a cup of coffee?
SB: Yeah, that would be lovely. Yes please, Norm.
[long pause]
SB: Right. Let’s have a look. See what I can find. Oh yeah. They’re alright you see.
ND: Marvellous. That’s a cracking camera isn’t it?
SB: Yeah.
ND: Oh dear oh dear.
SB: Fantastic isn’t it really.
ND: I’ll tell you what I wish I could remember all the names. It’s so long ago now.
SB: So this is the CO obviously right in the middle.
ND: That is Wing Commander Walker MC DFC from the First World War, ex-Royal Flying Corps. Where is he? Where are you? Where are you Titch Walker? There he is.
SB: Yeah.
ND: That I think is Flight Commander Magee. Squadron Leader Magee, a New Zealander.
SB: So the next right as we look at it. Yeah.
ND: And that is Griffiths.
SB: Next left is Griffiths.
ND: Yeah. Or is that? That could be old Pussycat.
SB: Oh right.
ND: It’s so long ago.
SB: Right.
ND: That was Stanley.
SB: On the left.
ND: Flight Lieutenant Stanley. Now, Kirby-Green is on here somewhere. Herrington. Flight Lieutenant Herrington.
SB: Four left.
ND: Kirby-Green.
SB: Four right.
ND: Slim [Dunn]
SB: What next to this?
ND: Yeah.
SB: Next to, this is a Vickers chap I suppose is it?
ND: Yeah. Yeah.
SB: This chap in his civvies next to him.
ND: Yeah. Yeah. That’s [Slim] flight mech engines. A very good footballer. Drowned in India. That was the engineer warrant officer. Oh, I forget his name now. That was Chiefy Harvey. Sticky Glue [laughs]
SB: [laughs] That’s just —
ND: Sticky Glue. [pause] Chiefy Williams. Air Force Cross before the war.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Oh, it’s so long ago. Flight Sergeant [Darling.] But he was finished his flying career as a sergeant pilot and he was ex-Halton. One of a group. First entry Halton.
SB: Oh right. Right.
ND: He was the ground, flight sergeant technician in charge of B flight.
SB: Right.
ND: Oh dear.
SB: Where are you then?
ND: I’m not on there.
SB: You’re not on this one.
ND: I never joined the squadron until May.
SB: Oh, May ’39. Right.
ND: 1939.
SB: Ok.
ND: But I remember them all. Where’s Bickerstaff? My eyes are not all that good now. Do you know I used to be able to name them all at one time. Of course, you see seventy of them ground crew were dead before February ’40 because they were A.G.s.
SB: Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh dear.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Terrible isn’t it?
ND: What we lost. We lost what two, four, six. We lost six, eight officers on December the 14th.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which were you know —
SB: Yeah. The Heligoland thing.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Yeah. That’s your first Wimpy isn’t it?
ND: That is the first Wimpy.
SB: 4215.
ND: L4215. That’s the first.
SB: Yeah.
ND: The fourth Wellington built.
SB: Right.
ND: It was said.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And the first one delivered to the Royal Air Force.
SB: Yeah. Yeah.
ND: So that is a historical photograph isn’t it?
SB: It certainly is. Yeah. I’ve never seen that anywhere else.
ND: And I was very lucky when [pause] where is he? Taffy Williams.
SB: Not Welsh by any chance [laughs]
ND: Corporal Taffy Williams he was [pause] I think he was a fitter 1. He was ex-Halton but he was a widower, no children and he lived in Lincolnshire.
SB: Yeah.
ND: And I kept in touch with him and then we suddenly had a notification from the lady that used to look after him. More than often his next door neighbour to say he’d died.
SB: Yeah.
ND: So I couldn’t manage. I was working at the time. I couldn’t get up to the funeral but one or two of the blokes went who were retired. But she went through his stuff and she found a rolled up doings. See.
SB: Oh.
ND: All rolled up.
SB: Oh right. Yeah. Yeah.
ND: And so she sent me it. But the best one I had I’ve given to the squadron.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Which I was given by Jock [pause] oh bloody hell. Jock’s lady who looked after him. He was another bachelor or widower. I can’t think of his name.
SB: No. That’s alright.
ND: Married a woman in, married a girl in Newmarket.
SB: Yeah.
ND: When we were there and he died with no relatives. She died before him and the lady that looked after them pair she sent this the good one that I gave to the squadron.
SB: Right.
ND: Because I had this before but I had the one from, oh what was its bloody name? I’ll tell you, in a Wimpy book you see a bloke demonstrating how to get out of the rear turret.
SB: Oh yes.
ND: That was him.
SB: Right.
ND: I can’t think of his bloody name. A Scotsman. Oh, Christ almighty.
SB: Don’t worry. I’m sure it’ll come back to you.
ND: My memory is getting bad.
SB: Yeah.
ND: Mind you that is a long time ago you know.
SB: Well, it is a long time ago, Norman. You’re right. Yeah.
ND: Yeah.
SB: It bloody well is.
ND: Yeah.
SB: Right. Well I’d better put this back then.
ND: Yeah. You can put that back. You’ve got all your gear. Don’t forget these, Steve. Oh I’ll make you a coffee. I’ve put the kettle on. I don’t mind drinking coffee for people because I don’t drink coffee anymore. I’m not supposed to.
SB: Right. Ok.
ND: My cups are up there.
SB: Yeah. Alright, well I’ll do that.
[voices go off into the kitchen and talk about the house]
Collection
Citation
S Bond and N Didwell, “Conversation with Norman Didwell - photographs,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed June 13, 2025, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/49109.