Leonard Cheshire talk RAF reserves club
Title
Leonard Cheshire talk RAF reserves club
Description
Talks about his invitation to propose toast and about the club. Recounts previous speakers talk on first world war episode. Mentions clubs that had origin in either world war. Continue with remarks on lessons learned from the wars. Goes on to mention pacifism and other ways of maintaining peace. Concludes and proposes toast.
Creator
Date
1975-11-24
Coverage
Language
Type
Format
Audio recording 00:14:21
Publisher
Rights
This content is property of the Leonard Cheshire Archive which has kindly granted the International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive a royalty-free permission to publish it. Please note that it was digitised by a third-party which used technical specifications that may differ from those used by International Bomber Command Centre Digital Archive. It has been published here ‘as is’ and may contain inaccuracies or culturally inappropriate references that do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the University of Lincoln or the International Bomber Command Centre.
Identifier
SCheshireGL72021v20017-0001, SCheshireGL72021v20017-0001-Transcript
Transcription
File Title: RAF Reserves Club
Recorded: 24/11/75
Duration: 14 minutes 28 seconds
Transcription Date: 05/06/2020
Archive Number: AV-S_512 S1
Start of Transcription:
00:00 Man: November 24th, RAF Reserves Club
00:05: Group Captain Leonard Cheshire: Mr. President, Mr. Chairman, My Lord and gentlemen. Well I‘d like to explain first and foremost why I’m standing up at the moment. I received a very warm invitation from your secretary, Harold Room, to attend the dinner, which I accepted with pleasure having been out of the country the last three years, I think. Four weeks later I got another letter saying would I please propose a toast to the club. I obviously couldn’t then say that I was not in the country. [Audience laughs] I rang Harold the night before last to get a little brief on this evening and as I was talking to him, a bell began to ring in my mind thinking that I’d given this talk before and knowing that my repertoire is a little limited, I said, ‘Harold I’ve done this before’. ‘No you haven’t’, he said. He said, ‘It wouldn’t be right to ask one person to do it twice and anyway it’s against club policy’. I said, ‘But Harold I think I can remember the occasion’, I began to describe it. He said, ‘Oh yes, yes, yes now I’ve come to think about it that’s quite right, you gave a wonderful talk, in fact we’re still all talking about what you said.’ [Audience laughs]
01:39 Well I think to be able to talk yourself out of a situation like that indicates why Harold got the job as secretary of the club and why the club has been so successful. You know probably that the club started in conjunction with the Naval Club. It then tried a little time of independence on its own, which eventually came to a halt, and reverted back to joining the Naval Club. I’d like to point out that there’s no moral to be drawn from that. [Audience laughs] It’s a once only event but had it not been for the Naval Club we would not be here tonight and I think we should express our deep appreciation to the club, Naval Club and all its members for their hospitality and everything they’ve done for the reserves club. [Applause]
02:52 And finally while I’m on the subject of the past and the club, I’d also like to say that sitting at this table is Sir John Baker who some years ago gave the talk that I’m giving now and in it he recounted a little episode during the fighting of the First World War. And as I think that it typifies something of a sense of duty and sense of discipline of the air force, I'd like to repeat it insofar as I remember it with my own admissions and perhaps additions.
03:39 A young pilot set off on a flight deep into enemy country in his single seater plane, but before he was able to accomplish the mission, something happened to him that’s almost unique to a pilot, an RAF pilot, on active duty; he got lost. [Audience laughs] And having attempted to find a landmark without success, he decided the only hope was to turn his nose westwards and keep flying, which he did until the engine stopped through a lack of petrol. He continued gliding hoping that he would just make it over the German lines. Nothing fired at him and so when eventually he came down in a convenient shell hole, he feared the worst. He put his head over the top of the shell hole and saw a vehicle approaching in from the west. When it got closer, he saw it was the British Army vehicle. He stood up and stopped it and said, ‘Lieutenant’. And the man said, ‘I’m not a lieutenant, I’m a general.’ ‘Good God,’ he said, ‘I didn’t know I was that far back behind the lines.’
[Audience laughs]
05:23 Well, I thank you Sir John but I’d like to ask, it wasn't you was it Sir John?
[Audience laughs]
05:38 Well my task tonight is to propose a toast of the RAF Reserves Club and in doing that I would like to associate also all those clubs, institutions and ceremonies, whatever they might be, that have as their origin in one way or another, either the First World War or the Second World War, and are trying in different ways to perpetuate as this club sets out in its articles, to perpetuate the spirit of friendship and cooperation that we knew in the war. Because whatever the institution or the organisation, our objective is the same though our ways are different. And obviously when we come to think about one of those two World Wars, each of us has different memories, we see it in a different light. But I think that we would all agree that in that World War we knew what it was as a nation to have a common objective, to know what we were doing, to know that we had to do it, that there could been no question of failure and then finally in the face of difficulty, to achieve it. We learnt what it was to be united by virtue of a common danger and threat and also a common challenge and on a personal level, I think that we also know what it was to be a member of one of the armed forces in wartime. The friendships we formed, the examples that we were shown, the courage that we saw. I think also the tradition, suddenly to realise that one is part of a tradition that goes right back into the past and to feel the strength that that gives one. I think that most of us who came from the outside world into one of the armed forces know that service in that force made us, so to speak, a man. It gave us a maturity.
08:30 But that’s not the only lesson from the war. Another one is our failure in the years before the war to take the action we should have taken to stop Hitler. Because it’s perfectly clear that had we really known what we were doing, had we really been able, willing to face the threat, we could have stopped him. Because he, as his Generals told him, was talking from a position of weakness, we were in the position of strength. But we did not want to face the reality of a man who meant war and because we didn’t, we opened the door to him. We entitled him in a way to think that we wouldn’t go to war and I wonder whether today we have entirely learnt that lesson. Because given the world as it is today, given human nature as it is, it’s naive to think that there will never be violent confrontation. We need to remember that whilst working for peace, we must be on our guard. We must be committed as a nation, not only positively to working for peace but committed to standing up if there really is a threat.
10:12 It’s easy to talk about not wanting war and that argument is liable to prevail and I think of those who have been through a war have something to contribute to that argument, only we must do it in a way that is understanding of the new generation. I have listened to a number of debates about pacifism, I find that they’re all conducted in a vacuum- that's to say abstracted from the concrete situation in which we are faced or were faced. I’ve seen people arguing against it but doing it in a militaristic point of view. Not declaring themselves as wanting peace, only realising that there comes a time when sadly we may be forced to resist aggression by force. The institutions which we represent, whether it be armistice day or squadron reunions or whatever they may be, are not always understood by the present generation because I think a dimension is lacking to them. I think that we should modernise, become more contemporary. That our club, and this club in particular, should continue opening its doors to the present generation, that so that the spirit that has been our privilege to share in and to carry on will continue, not just stop when those who fought in the war are no longer here, but continue. And that cannot be unless every institution and every club becomes contemporary, introduces a new dimension so that it belongs as much to today as it did to the past, because after all what we are today is what we were in the past. We have the privilege of benefiting from what other generations, right back into the beginnings of time, have achieved, have worked for and we have a job to pass it on. I think for instance that Remembrance Day should be given a contemporary form. I think we should bring back that two-minute silence to make it meaningful.
[Applause]
13:11 So that we as a nation can stand up, as it were, and declare that we are committed to the cause of which so many died and whose memory we honour tonight. And so I count it a great privilege, to be standing for this moment, to propose the toast of the RAF Reserves Club. Not only the club itself but all those other institutions and ceremonies of all the services that are perpetuating and bringing to the modern generation, enabling them to transform it in their own way, the spirit of service that was shown by our nation and our allies during that last World War. And so, on behalf of you all, I propose a toast, the RAF Reserves Club.
14:09: Man: The RAF Reserves Club.
14:11: Speech ends.
[Applause]
14:28 End of recording
End of transcription.
Recorded: 24/11/75
Duration: 14 minutes 28 seconds
Transcription Date: 05/06/2020
Archive Number: AV-S_512 S1
Start of Transcription:
00:00 Man: November 24th, RAF Reserves Club
00:05: Group Captain Leonard Cheshire: Mr. President, Mr. Chairman, My Lord and gentlemen. Well I‘d like to explain first and foremost why I’m standing up at the moment. I received a very warm invitation from your secretary, Harold Room, to attend the dinner, which I accepted with pleasure having been out of the country the last three years, I think. Four weeks later I got another letter saying would I please propose a toast to the club. I obviously couldn’t then say that I was not in the country. [Audience laughs] I rang Harold the night before last to get a little brief on this evening and as I was talking to him, a bell began to ring in my mind thinking that I’d given this talk before and knowing that my repertoire is a little limited, I said, ‘Harold I’ve done this before’. ‘No you haven’t’, he said. He said, ‘It wouldn’t be right to ask one person to do it twice and anyway it’s against club policy’. I said, ‘But Harold I think I can remember the occasion’, I began to describe it. He said, ‘Oh yes, yes, yes now I’ve come to think about it that’s quite right, you gave a wonderful talk, in fact we’re still all talking about what you said.’ [Audience laughs]
01:39 Well I think to be able to talk yourself out of a situation like that indicates why Harold got the job as secretary of the club and why the club has been so successful. You know probably that the club started in conjunction with the Naval Club. It then tried a little time of independence on its own, which eventually came to a halt, and reverted back to joining the Naval Club. I’d like to point out that there’s no moral to be drawn from that. [Audience laughs] It’s a once only event but had it not been for the Naval Club we would not be here tonight and I think we should express our deep appreciation to the club, Naval Club and all its members for their hospitality and everything they’ve done for the reserves club. [Applause]
02:52 And finally while I’m on the subject of the past and the club, I’d also like to say that sitting at this table is Sir John Baker who some years ago gave the talk that I’m giving now and in it he recounted a little episode during the fighting of the First World War. And as I think that it typifies something of a sense of duty and sense of discipline of the air force, I'd like to repeat it insofar as I remember it with my own admissions and perhaps additions.
03:39 A young pilot set off on a flight deep into enemy country in his single seater plane, but before he was able to accomplish the mission, something happened to him that’s almost unique to a pilot, an RAF pilot, on active duty; he got lost. [Audience laughs] And having attempted to find a landmark without success, he decided the only hope was to turn his nose westwards and keep flying, which he did until the engine stopped through a lack of petrol. He continued gliding hoping that he would just make it over the German lines. Nothing fired at him and so when eventually he came down in a convenient shell hole, he feared the worst. He put his head over the top of the shell hole and saw a vehicle approaching in from the west. When it got closer, he saw it was the British Army vehicle. He stood up and stopped it and said, ‘Lieutenant’. And the man said, ‘I’m not a lieutenant, I’m a general.’ ‘Good God,’ he said, ‘I didn’t know I was that far back behind the lines.’
[Audience laughs]
05:23 Well, I thank you Sir John but I’d like to ask, it wasn't you was it Sir John?
[Audience laughs]
05:38 Well my task tonight is to propose a toast of the RAF Reserves Club and in doing that I would like to associate also all those clubs, institutions and ceremonies, whatever they might be, that have as their origin in one way or another, either the First World War or the Second World War, and are trying in different ways to perpetuate as this club sets out in its articles, to perpetuate the spirit of friendship and cooperation that we knew in the war. Because whatever the institution or the organisation, our objective is the same though our ways are different. And obviously when we come to think about one of those two World Wars, each of us has different memories, we see it in a different light. But I think that we would all agree that in that World War we knew what it was as a nation to have a common objective, to know what we were doing, to know that we had to do it, that there could been no question of failure and then finally in the face of difficulty, to achieve it. We learnt what it was to be united by virtue of a common danger and threat and also a common challenge and on a personal level, I think that we also know what it was to be a member of one of the armed forces in wartime. The friendships we formed, the examples that we were shown, the courage that we saw. I think also the tradition, suddenly to realise that one is part of a tradition that goes right back into the past and to feel the strength that that gives one. I think that most of us who came from the outside world into one of the armed forces know that service in that force made us, so to speak, a man. It gave us a maturity.
08:30 But that’s not the only lesson from the war. Another one is our failure in the years before the war to take the action we should have taken to stop Hitler. Because it’s perfectly clear that had we really known what we were doing, had we really been able, willing to face the threat, we could have stopped him. Because he, as his Generals told him, was talking from a position of weakness, we were in the position of strength. But we did not want to face the reality of a man who meant war and because we didn’t, we opened the door to him. We entitled him in a way to think that we wouldn’t go to war and I wonder whether today we have entirely learnt that lesson. Because given the world as it is today, given human nature as it is, it’s naive to think that there will never be violent confrontation. We need to remember that whilst working for peace, we must be on our guard. We must be committed as a nation, not only positively to working for peace but committed to standing up if there really is a threat.
10:12 It’s easy to talk about not wanting war and that argument is liable to prevail and I think of those who have been through a war have something to contribute to that argument, only we must do it in a way that is understanding of the new generation. I have listened to a number of debates about pacifism, I find that they’re all conducted in a vacuum- that's to say abstracted from the concrete situation in which we are faced or were faced. I’ve seen people arguing against it but doing it in a militaristic point of view. Not declaring themselves as wanting peace, only realising that there comes a time when sadly we may be forced to resist aggression by force. The institutions which we represent, whether it be armistice day or squadron reunions or whatever they may be, are not always understood by the present generation because I think a dimension is lacking to them. I think that we should modernise, become more contemporary. That our club, and this club in particular, should continue opening its doors to the present generation, that so that the spirit that has been our privilege to share in and to carry on will continue, not just stop when those who fought in the war are no longer here, but continue. And that cannot be unless every institution and every club becomes contemporary, introduces a new dimension so that it belongs as much to today as it did to the past, because after all what we are today is what we were in the past. We have the privilege of benefiting from what other generations, right back into the beginnings of time, have achieved, have worked for and we have a job to pass it on. I think for instance that Remembrance Day should be given a contemporary form. I think we should bring back that two-minute silence to make it meaningful.
[Applause]
13:11 So that we as a nation can stand up, as it were, and declare that we are committed to the cause of which so many died and whose memory we honour tonight. And so I count it a great privilege, to be standing for this moment, to propose the toast of the RAF Reserves Club. Not only the club itself but all those other institutions and ceremonies of all the services that are perpetuating and bringing to the modern generation, enabling them to transform it in their own way, the spirit of service that was shown by our nation and our allies during that last World War. And so, on behalf of you all, I propose a toast, the RAF Reserves Club.
14:09: Man: The RAF Reserves Club.
14:11: Speech ends.
[Applause]
14:28 End of recording
End of transcription.
Collection
Citation
G L Cheshire, “Leonard Cheshire talk RAF reserves club,” IBCC Digital Archive, accessed June 15, 2025, https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/collections/document/40173.