Interview with John Blair

Interview with John Blair

John Blair is a former lawyer, teacher, air accident investigator, and flew as a navigator in bombers during the Second World War. He discusses his experiences in the 1930s – 1950s, and talks to his wife, Margaret, about her experiences in Suez and Cyprus.

John Blair volunteered for the RAF in Jamaica. He began pilot training but ultimately qualified as a navigator. He was posted to 102 Squadron and flew thirty three operations.

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02:34:08 audio recording

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Interviewer: I’m sitting with John and Margaret Blair. John, a lawyer, a teacher, an air accident investigator and a former navigator in bombers during the Second World War and we are going to talk about his experiences in the 1930, ‘40s and ‘50s, marriage to Margaret and her experiences during the war as well and subsequently in Suez and in Cyprus. John, starting with you. What was life like in Jamaica in the 1930s before World War Two?
JB: [unclear] my age at the time. After nine of us I was born in 1919. It was a very sort of slow paced life was. We had eight children in the family and I happened to be the last one. In fact, I sort of, I came out of the blue because my brother was seven years, seven years ahead of me. So I was the little last one. What they used to call in those days a wash belly. And so I was trying to catch up with the rest of my family. So, I didn’t have the opportunity of going to school at the same time as them. I went to school with one of my sisters was the teacher there. when I went to school I was sent there.
Interviewer: Was that in Kingston?
JB: No, it was St Elizabeth. And I continued there. I think I went to school before I was the proper age. The proper age was seven and I think I went when I was something like five or six. I know I can recall one visit by an inspector. They were all English who inspected there. Then I went on. I stayed there until I was about ten and then my sister, my eldest sister became a teacher. She was married to a teacher and I went to school with her at St Mary’s. I spent about a year and a half there. My brother Stanley, who was another teacher, had been teaching in the Cayman Islands and come back and I was moved to where he was teaching in St Ann’s. I didn’t last very long there. I ended up at Ocho Rios where he was teaching and I, my ambition there was limited. It was a very hard area [unclear] And I spent all the rest of my permanent education there. Then I left when I was about seventeen [unclear] At seventeen I made an attempt to enter Mico Training College [unclear] I didn’t get in that year and tried the second I was successful in that and spent three years at Mico College and left there as a qualified teacher in the early [unclear] and then the school near Tinson Peni went and stayed there about a year and a half. By that time the war was well in progress for at least a year and at the time there was, there was area where people went you know volunteering irrespective of their qualifications. Some went to do ordinary labour. Others went to do more sophisticated things and I applied for other [unclear]. I can’t remember the year. Nineteen [pause] I don’t know. Yes. 1940. In 1942 and we went [unclear] together because it was quite comical. We left there on board an American ship [unclear] go down there and then they arrived in this area. We saw a lot bunks and thought well these must be ours. So we lined up and selected our beds. [unclear] I think this was about October nineteen [pause] ’42. 1942.
MB: I would think so. Yes.
JB: Right there that ship stopped and British Honduras was the first as it was known then. Now Belize where we took on board some labourers and they told me they were going to Scotland to work in the forests. Then we went along and we went to New Orleans. Disembarked there and then we went down to New York. We spent about two weeks or so there before we were [unclear] at a big RAF station in Canada. Moncton in New Brunswick.
Interviewer: How many people [unclear]
JB: [unclear] to do their training in Canada or in the United States. We were very very lucky and from [unclear] we got our uniforms and then we went on a train. This was nothing to do with the flying. This was just the qualification you know as you were going into a Service. That training was either parades and disciplining and saluting here and saluting there. [unclear] we went there at the end, the end of November. That was the whole, I think there were twenty one of us or something like and we were sent to an RCAF training place at [unclear]
MB: [unclear]
JB: And we spent more time there getting into the civilian system of things.
MB: [unclear]
JB: Yeah.
Interviewer: Before we go to the Canadian training I’m curious about the spirit. The motivation of this group of Jamaicans. What was it that motivated them to join up? What was their attitude towards the British Empire as they said about it then. What was going through your minds at that time before you [unclear]
JB: Well, I think there was no sort of worries about anything like that. We never talked like that because we were, we had about three [pause] three persons who were English and they covered all of the shades from the black to the white, grey [unclear] and we all went to the place in, I’m trying to think of the name of the place now [unclear] and one of them was a teacher, an Englishman. A teacher who was teaching. I forget which college he worked at. One had also come from Belize. There were the two UK white people put it that way and [unclear] they didn’t have —
MB: [unclear]
JB: Any?
MB: [unclear]
JB: I don’t know anything about that [unclear] and of the seven thousand there was probably about and we were then sent from there to [unclear] which was a sort of drinking place when you were going to you know they gave you lectures and went out [unclear] there important actual training you were going to do to fly. So, that was where you were allocated. Those who didn’t have certain qualifications went down to do ground work and those who had qualifications went up and went on.
Interviewer: Did you feel it was a good general [unclear] the qualifications?
JB: [unclear] Because we had two Englishmen and then one from here and the other one from there. They went off to fly. [unclear] myself, Lynch and Balderamos who was [unclear] went off to Flying Schools. At that time you had to do the initial ground training for that. So anyway, I was selected for that. There is something else I should put in here though. We spent the two of us and I and this was in the height of winter. I can remember the snow was around your knees if you were not careful where you were walking. And when it began to break up they got a group of us who were selected for flying purposes went to McGill University and we spent about four weeks there. And we then left there and it was very funny we went, myself and Arthur Wint for some unearthly reason there were no [unclear] and went to a school up in Ottawa. I don’t know where they got [unclear] from. We didn’t know anything about that. So we went there and myself and Arthur and another [unclear] The first day we got down there they hadn’t even found us any accommodation even. There was something strange had happened anyways and then the first day [unclear] So we laughed. He said [unclear] with you know [unclear] and as you know he said, [unclear] no no want to get one side to equal the other side and move them around. I said, ‘Alright. I will do that.’ You see. [unclear] my memory is bad.
MB: [unclear]
JB: A higher form of maths. Three of us [unclear] basic maths and —
MB: [unclear]
JB: [unclear] what was known as Initial Training Wing. This was the other thing. When you finished that you were selected you for specialist training and we must have been about a week later that we got there. [unclear] and then we went to medical [unclear] what happened was —
MB: [unclear]
JB: We went back to Montreal and we had to be there for the training [unclear] it too them ten minutes to wash me out of Flying School. And I was downcast. Sent away to a holding school in Toronto and where it was was an old place where they moved [unclear] it was an exhibition hall, a huge big building and there were all, you know all different pictures here and pictures here [unclear] I was left and I alone arrived here and when you walked into the [unclear] the building you know beds and that place was there was I a sort of holding office for RAF people who had failed and were now going back.
Interviewer: How did you feel about that then?
JB: So I’d go to England without any training.
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: [unclear]
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: And I had never seen so many people. we must have had five hundred men in that area. I mean we did not have it all in one place. But there were thousands of us there and I spent about three weeks there and I went and saw the Canadian medical officer and I told him what my problem was. [unclear] when we arrived. [unclear] Alright, we’ll have a try.’ [unclear] I didn’t know anybody when I arrived. We used to have parades in the morning regularly. [unclear] the team of British [unclear] they had what they called the colours and everything was [unclear] go on for ages you know. [unclear] what you see on the stage. Anyway, I don’t know. I just started talking about myself. And then they said, ‘What are you doing here?’ I said [unclear] The next day I received a full medical and two days [unclear] I went to a camp there and we went [unclear] I was the only coloured man there.
Interviewer: What sort of treatment did you get as the only coloured man there? [unclear]
JB: No problem at all. Not a problem at all. At least I did not find any problem. It may be that I’ve never found any problems with the Air Force. It maybe is because I felt and I knew what the conditions were and I didn’t sort of expose myself too them..
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: That that was [unclear]
Interviewer: It did exist for some people.
JB: Oh, yes. Yes. And then —
MB: [unclear]
JB: It depends. I never had it.
MB: [unclear]
JB: And then I moved from the training there. Selected you know [unclear] that was all, get my logbooks. My total flying time was sixty four hours day and thirty eight hours [unclear] mainly night flying and that was before navigation. This was the result of the examination.
Interviewer: So this was your navigator’s course.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: You had to do navigation, signals, aircraft recognition, topography, armament training, day and night flying among other things.
JB: Yes. Oh yes. Yes.
Interviewer: So it was quite intensive then.
JB: Oh, it is. Oh yes.
Interviewer: How long did that training last?
JB: [unclear] Oh yes. 5th of September to the 28th of January 1943 ’44.
Interviewer: At the end of that process you were ready for operations.
JB: Oh no. Not yet. You just had that time to work. So that was the [unclear] and again you find that that was [unclear]
Interviewer: So you were saying that while you were still training.
JB: Oh yes, you were still learning to fly but you see you went to fly with Ansons, twin engine planes and you warmed yourself up [unclear] competent and so on and so on and so on and the things you had to tune to get your bearings. Nobody else could help. Help you. So that it was quite, you know you were quite [unclear] what you were going to do after this is to go and familiarise yourself with [unclear] the UK and learn about an entirely new aeroplane.
Interviewer: More advanced.
JB: More advanced.
Interviewer: When you were flying in Ansons were you conscious at the time that you were flying an old-fashioned aircraft?
JB: Yes. They were old fashioned aircraft but you know it was there and provided the pilot and, did it have a co-pilot? And yourself. So that it was just you didn’t go anywhere [unclear] two or three hours. And that was the whole thing was operated there actually.
Interviewer: So the navigator and the pilot [unclear]
JB: That’s right. [unclear] and then you had to do sort of bombing exercises and all that sort of thing. Things like familiarisation and navigation by wind finding, prohibited areas. All these sorts of things were involved.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JB: Oh yes. Everyone was the same.
Interviewer: The same as each other.
JB: Yes [pause] let me just have —
MB: [unclear]I don’t know there’s something else.
JB: The picture of that guy. Navigator’s groups. This one. This is the picture of the whole part of the course. [unclear] at that time.
Interviewer: These are all English officers.
JB: Canadian.
MB: [unclear]
JB: The same thing. Yes.
Interviewer: Is that the Anson behind you?
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: And the officers in the centre those are your instructors?
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Do you remember them?
MB: You’ve got them all written down somewhere.
JB: The names, yes. [unclear]
Interviewer: Do you remember the personalities?
JB: The instructors.
Interviewer: The instructors.
JB: No. Not really. No. Not really because you see [unclear] the people in the schools would be instructors. The pilots were not instructors. They were just flying somewhere. You had to do your navigation at the side of him. But most of these here, these the officers are all instructors. [unclear]
MB: What about Balderamos. What does he have to do with it?
JB: No. Thinking [unclear]
Interviewer: Is this because you had your [unclear]
JB: If we had not had that problem you would have seen a group photograph of thirty one West Indians. Oh yes. Yes. Yes. I don’t know. They all went to different schools [unclear] have to see the medical. Oh, I will have to give you some medical advice about that which I missed [unclear] When myself and Arthur Wint came back after the war we [unclear] the rest of them. Not the flying school so that they were a unit that looking out for [unclear] on one occasion I said [unclear] and we went down there [unclear] and this was a [unclear] school but it was a flying school for advanced people. Where you had been doing your flying. Flying. [unclear] And they sent us back to [unclear]
Interviewer: [unclear]
JB: So when I finished [unclear] and I was the only man there, the only coloured person so from there I was sent back now to London [unclear] and I stopped in [unclear] after days I found [unclear] at the railway station so that’s and who shall walk along but Arthur Wint. I was shocked to see him. I said, you see I’ve got a picture here of the white flash on the cap.
Interviewer: That I can see.
JB: And that indicates —?
MB: An officer.
JB: No. You are now a flying [unclear]
MB: Oh, I see.
JB: You have your wings. You’ve got to do far more serious work so you can see that all of them have little wings on the front of their caps.
Interviewer: Right.
JB: We went back now, myself and Arthur went back to where we had come from [unclear]
MB: Arthur was a pilot.
JB: And the rest of all these people [unclear] and had to wait a year. These are all Canadian.
JB: Along the line your future crew? Let me see.
MB: [unclear]
Interviewer: Future crew.
MB: You have to bring it down from somewhere. He won’t be on that one up there [unclear] actually that one there we had it redone. It was [unclear] they found it there. Yes. So at some point it must have been given to her [unclear]
JB: I think this was people who I had seen since that. I remember him. [unclear] So that was the basic training of the, the initial training.
Interviewer: Who had been training.
JB: I went from there back to Moncton with a half a wing. The snow. I can remember when we got back it was cold like the devil. Snow was falling like.
Interviewer: This was the end of January. Beginning of February.
JB: Yes. I can see myself [unclear] bits and pieces. We were sent up there and we were told that we were officers and this was we had this captain. And then after about a day or so we met two other fellas who were in the same group. one of them was [unclear] the other one was a bomb aimer. Eventually he was a bomb aimer because that was only one course and [unclear] from the navigation side only. They accepted that.
Interviewer: These were all the Canadians.
JB: Yes. That’s right.
Interviewer: At this time how much do you know about the progress of the war and how interested are you in the details of what was happening in Europe?
JB: Well, you didn’t hear very much news. You got a little news on the radio and this sort of training you were doing you were hoping you finish your training and get in the front line before you get knowledge about what was going on. This time, I think it was, what was the date? 1943. ’42 and ’43 and still we were doing this and I arrived back at Halifax in ’44 I think.
Interviewer: January ’44.
JB: This was five months before D-Day.
Interviewer: Oh yes.
JB: [unclear] in Italy. Not in France. So we waited and got on board the boat. The ship was full. [unclear] the same squadron Arthur Wint, myself and what the hell is that other person. [unclear] Can I have a look at one of those things?
MB: What do you want?
JB: The all-Jamaican crew there.
MB: Where?
JB: [unclear]
MB: [unclear] again. I think that might be it at the top. I’m not sure.
JB: [unclear] yes, this is a group. All of us. And then we went, the sent us up everybody when they got there went out and you had to in the meantime you had to get yourself properly dressed. You had to get uniforms done and as you were commissioned as an officer. So all three of us as I remember.
MB: [unclear]
JB: [unclear] about England. Where was that big holding place in England?
Interviewer: So you had crossed to England at this point.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: How did you cross over? Was it by [unclear]
MB: Was it Filey?
Interviewer: Tell me about the boat journey.
JB: The boat journey.
Interviewer: Were the submarines still active at point?
JB: Oh yes.
[recording paused]
Interviewer: So you were telling us about the boat journey.
JB: I think we spent about two weeks at the most at Moncton before we were sent off to the boat at [unclear] we left somewhere around there. Halifax. Halifax area. I think it was Halifax and it was a very big boat. Took all persons going over and finished their training after that. There were Canadians on the boat and we went through to Glasgow. We never saw any ships at all during the journey. As far as I was, I know that we went up to the north then came back down.
Interviewer: Was this to avoid submarines?
JB: Avoid submarines.
Interviewer: It was Iceland.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: In that area there weren’t submarines.
JB: No. There was nothing to talk about. There was no indication [unclear] Glasgow. Myself, Arthur, and our friend went to [unclear] because we did not have the money to pay [unclear] you know. What we had before was official. We went and I think it was about a fortnight I think [unclear]
Interviewer: You had to have tailor made uniforms.
JB: They all had to be tailor made uniforms. Arthur and my friend we went out [unclear] myself and Arthur went out straight to London. Well, we were briefed and we were told where we could go to you know but there were other places that were taken over for officers and we had certainly [unclear]
Interviewer: What was the reaction of the British population when you arrived?
JB: Oh, there was no reaction at all [unclear]
Interviewer: As officers.
JB: Yes. They were glad to see you.
Interviewer: Ok. Did people say things like, ‘Thank you for coming so far?’ or —
JB: Oh yes. They don’t know you around where we went in for uniforms and so on. And [unclear] but this was a big big big big big camp in Yorkshire. That was not an active station. You used to be able to put on your uniform and when you get it be a bit strange.
Interviewer: How so?
JB: Walk into a bar and [unclear] You know, it was sort of relief from the pressures you were under up to that.
MB: [unclear]
Interviewer: So with yourself people discussed their gratitude.
JB: Oh yes.
Interviewer: How did that come across in a typical —
JB: [unclear]
Interviewer: This was a Yorkshire man.
JB: Yes. And then we went on leave. I remember I went down to London. If you went to London there were places you could go and stay [unclear] buildings that were taken over for this purpose. [unclear] at the time and my friend Arthur stayed because he knew people over there. I didn’t know. He went and made contact with them and [unclear] you’d keep mostly to yourself [unclear] where we were. So we went around you know [unclear] you’d find yourself lost in no time. And Arthur knew. He knew. Had some friends so he went out to see them and went on my own [unclear] and you know you would walk around. You’d got the map. So that was it. Then from there now you had finished and go back now to Yorkshire. The first thing you would have to go on a battle course. That was a ground training and [unclear] and jumping over this and jumping over that. [unclear]
MB: [unclear]
JB: And from there [unclear] I went to Scotland. Over on the, the south west side of Scotland and this was very all about the flying now. Remember the Ansons I gave you.
Interviewer: I do.
JB: And you see the difference was that when you were flying in say Canada you a little town was there and the next town was thirty miles away like that. It was easy to navigate over there. When you went to England [unclear] so this was about familiarisation and [unclear] both flying and ground training and so on. Something like that. So on. You were training for Bomber Command so they would start getting used to the equipment and so on. You would go to those lectures and so that was a bit down in [unclear] and you never had [unclear] until you had finished. I was posted to [unclear]
MB: Down here.
JB: It’s down here in Scotland and I was posted to RAF [unclear] for familiarisation for three weeks and followed by a posting to RAF Kinloss and this was where now you would go and pilots, engineers, gunners, everything you can find. [unclear] the pilot was [unclear] and when it came to me I was the only coloured man there [unclear] So I was standing there and the pilot, the Canadian pilot was not young but very [unclear] ‘Would you like to come and fly with me?’ ‘Yes.’ And we then selected two gunners.
Interviewer: Did you know them before?
JB: No. No. Nobody knows. That’s it. It’s useful going up with these strange, without saying [unclear] and we selected an engineer. At the end of the day engineer. Everybody was new. The only person I think was last [unclear] [pause] and he wasn’t there. And we went out on an old aeroplane now. A Whitley. A two-engine thing. Spent about eight weeks there. A Canadian. We got along well and we started flying the old Whitley. When I look back I think we must have been mad.
MB: [unclear]
JB: These are old aircraft. Old aircraft. Well, what it was they were they’d been in the war when the Allies had [unclear] but of course it was old knowledge being used. And at the day to day reason for it getting into this familiarisation with the crew, the whole crew and at the same time learning about [unclear] itself and we were there for about three months. We did an amount of flying there [pause] Whitley. [unclear] Total hours nineteen hours. Twenty hours. Nineteen hours. And then from there we went to do a battle course using ground [unclear] you know if you are shot down what do you do. Something like that.
Interviewer: Escape and evasion. Survival.
JB: Survival. Yes. That course but some of us would be [unclear] [pause] The Whitley. Thirty days on Whitleys. That’s hours.
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: And twenty eight hours at night.
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: That was our life.
Interviewer: That’s a fair bit of flying.
JB: Yes. A fair bit of flying. You had to get ready for flying because you see you had to get used to the navigation technique that was there. [unclear] because when you get on the operational squadron you do your familiarisation and you are on your way.
Interviewer: So what were you using at this point for navigation?
JB: Oh, we would be using Gee which was a radar. Fix your lines you know you could get the readings off that.
Interviewer: A signal went out.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Fair enough.
JB: We didn’t have any sophisticated equipment that major bombers were fitted with.
Interviewer: So there was no radar.
JB: No radar on board and it was just the radio bearing from the various points. Visibility. You could look over and identify where you are using the night. You could find your own wind keeping yourself on track and stay on track. So that went on there and then that was the end of Kinloss.
Interviewer: We spoke about being trained on what to do if you were shot down.
JB: Oh yes.
Interviewer: Did you spend much time thinking about the possibility of being shot down or did you just —
JB: Well, we just know.
Interviewer: Forget about it.
JB: You forget about it.
Interviewer: There must have been people that you knew of who were shot down.
JB: Oh yes. Yes.
Interviewer: Did you think that it would just not happen to you?
JB: You can’t think that.
Interviewer: No.
JB: But this wasn’t the same as over the UK so you know we didn’t have that worry, that problem come up yet.
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: It hadn’t come yet.
Interviewer: Ok fine.
JB: And then we were posted. We had to do some ground training now. You’re going to the squadron and you have to do your ground training. As you were saying what to do when things are [unclear]
Interviewer: Yes.
JB: Take a parachute down by yourself. Practice. So you had lectures in that. And it wasn’t always the question of there was no means or any means but you would sort of land with the parachute and go down for no reason at all. You were taught how to use it and it would be up to you to use what you were taught. [unclear] Otherwise you see if you took the [unclear] who was only doing training then you were subjecting you know and you could lose half of your people there.
Interviewer: Ok. So there were no real jumps there.
JB: No real jumps from there. [unclear] and then we went on to from there we were now trained on to the Halifaxes. Halifax Mark 3s or 4s.
Interviewer: These were the mainstream bombers now.
JB: Mainstream bombers now. Last training courses and that didn’t take long because it was mostly thirty days as a navigator you had to learn the whole system of navigation there. You would have Gee, you would have radar, you would have ordinary bearings from various points. All those would be there and there wasn’t anything else other than that. We did in fact for that training we just weren’t sure. The whole familiarisation was twenty nine hours. Twenty one days and eight [unclear] nine hours for that. That was and you would finish up because then you would be going on Halifaxes. You had been trained on Halifaxes. Same type as you would use on operation and then you were [unclear] and there was [unclear] We went there for our first flight there and it was just a bombing exercise with a new aeroplane. It would be most [unclear] and you would go across country. And after that you would be going [unclear] there. So that was on Halifax Mark 3. The same as we had on those pictures there. The crew was lined up. The pilot was Canadian from oh where the hell was the place? Vancouver. And as far as I can remember now the two gunners were English men. One from [Liverpool] one from [unclear]. The wireless operator radar operator was a Scottish fellow. The engineer was an English gentleman from around near Liverpool. The bomb aimer was from Canada. And me from Jamaica. So that’s how the ball went.
Interviewer: Did it become a tight knit crew?
JB: Oh yes. Yes. You would have been there from, let’s see we arrived there three [pause] 17 12 ’44. So you’re in the month of the same date we were doing our exercise from the local bombing. We did some familiarisation flying on the aeroplane on the 17th and on the 19th we did a cross country just to get but that was only three hours and twenty minutes. So that was at night. [unclear] and on the 21st we [unclear]
Interviewer: The first operational mission.
JB: The first operation.
Interviewer: 21st of December 1944.
JB: The 21st of December 1944.
Interviewer: Do you remember what your target was?
JB: Essen. Cologne.
Interviewer: Can I ask you about it?
JB: The raids. Targets.
MB: It’s in the book because it shows you everything that was [pause] what he did there. No, this isn’t it. It shows you about actually where you went. You have it marked in pencil. No. Another folder like this. I gave it to you before [unclear]
JB: It’s off to your left. On the floor to your left.
MB: Yes. Written. Written there.
JB: No. It isn’t in here.
MB: Yes it is. You have them marked here.
JB: Oh yes. But we only had one.
MB: Yes, I know but there was a few of them.
JB: Yes.
MB: Where you went to.
Interviewer: So can you, can you remember that first mission?
JB: The first mission? Yes. that’s what it is here.
Interviewer: Do you remember the events?
JB: [unclear]
Interviewer: What was typical? We want to know what happened. What goes on and how does it feel like.
JB: Well, it was not a question of feeling. We had so much to do that you don’t have time for thinking. But I don’t know you know you don’t have time. You have to make sure that you stay with your group. That the timing was right. You were told to get to this point, that point, that point and finally the last point absolutely. So you may have to reduce speed. You may have to increase speed. But it’s always the timing is always such that you were maybe a minute or two loose.
MB: And it’s not one aircraft.
JB: That stage.
MB: They had to be on time.
JB: You would probably have two hundred or more over the target on one night.
Interviewer: So this is the bomber stream.
JB: You have the bomber stream.
Interviewer: Coming across.
JB: You know exactly which end you are at. When it comes to barraging let us start when I had finished my training and I was ready for my first flight. It’s not an easy thing to do. You would go to the, you had been told in the morning that you are on a flight tonight and [unclear] and that would be told to you somewhere around 10 o’clock not before. Between say ten and 2 o’clock you will have had to complete the total course there and back. You wait. You had a lot of work to do. Lunchtime at that time would go on from usually 12 o’clock to 1 or twelve to two because you would have to get your chart, we’d have to go to our briefing and you would be told what was the chart to be flown. This part of the briefing here would be one that half the people present don’t know anything because you had work to do. So it would be told at between eight and 10 o’clock and the navigation officer would have the information that you had. You’d get out your map and you would draw in the track, you measured in the winds, each one separate to the first. When you were going in you for a bombing raid you don’t just rush straight in. We go here, over here, over here. The bombing run is not more than say ten minutes run on the track.
Interviewer: Is this to confuse the enemy?
JB: Confuse the enemy and after that you have to again go back and turn so that they don’t have a fighter sitting and waiting for you. So that is the navigation at work and that is hard work. From 10 o’clock in the morning to 2 o’clock.
Interviewer: Twisting and turning with hundreds of other aircraft.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Besides you [unclear] at night.
JB: At night. At night. That’s right. That’s right. At night and well it’s you each, you each let me put it this way they would be divided into say three waves and each wave, let’s say the first wave would be at 10 o’clock or 10:30 and that wave would take ten minutes to find the first marker. The first one though you don’t use that. You know you have to be somewhere at you say 10:05. The next flight behind you will be there at 10:06 and at that stage then the new wave is at 10:10 or 10:12. So, you have to work out exactly what your speed [unclear] and at the take-off they will allow you enough time to get into your circuit to get halfway to your height or get to your height. That means the action that would be crossing the English coast. That would be especially timed there and you’d have to work out you know that this flight or this crew or this bunch will be there at 10 o’clock. You will be there at 10:03 or 10:04 or something like that so you do your timing number and that concerns the whole trip all the way around. But that you had to sit down and work out so that is why we can’t go to the main briefing with anybody else. We got our briefing in the navigation section about 10 o’clock in the morning and then you go to the general briefing at about 2 or 3 o’clock depending on when you are leaving.
Interviewer: Ok. So the fact of the general briefing. The pilots would normally learn from you where they were going.
JB: That’s right. Yes.
Interviewer: So, when it comes to the general briefing and somebody saying, ‘Gentlemen, the target is —’
JB: Yes, that’s right.
Interviewer: That wasn’t actually news to them.
JB: Oh yes, it’s news. That would be news to the gunners.
Interviewer: The gunners. Ok.
JB: Because they didn’t need to know about anything.
Interviewer: So, for secrecy they wouldn’t have been told.
JB: No.
Interviewer: Right. Ok.
JB: The persons who were in prime billet is the navigator and the pilot.
Interviewer: Ok. How realistic are those films about the bombing missions during the war?
JB: [unclear]
Interviewer: You feel you recognise most of that.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Right.
JB: And the thing is exactly the same way that you get back to the UK. If you get back. And then from there on you know once you have cleared the target and cleared where you could expect night fighters you feel relaxed.
MB: [unclear]
JB: So what would the sequence have been? So you’d have searchlights.
Interviewer: Yeah.
JB: Then night fighters.
Interviewer: Targets. What was, what was that experience going through that and coming back?
JB: Not for me. I had too much to do. Too much work.
Interviewer: You couldn’t see out your area.
JB: No. No. You couldn’t see or hear at least not from the air sitting in Halifaxes. Do you know what I’d do? Expose a light. You know, we had the red lights on. But then you don’t want to. If a fighter is going to find you he will search for you and he will find you. He may use his radar to see what the aeroplane over there —
Interviewer: Because of this and the German are using radar.
JB: Yeah.
Interviewer: They had jets as well at this point.
JB: Oh yes. Yes.
Interviewer: That’s the Messerschmitt. The Messerschmitt —
JB: 200C or [pause] yes.
Interviewer: The jet.
JB: Ahum.
Interviewer: The 210.
JB: The 210, yes.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JB: So, you had, I found this and I think most other crew members who had too much work to do because you see everything you do you have to [unclear] check it because you can’t make mistakes.
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: Mistake is fatal.
Interviewer: Could you, could you hear the other crew talking on the intercom about what they were seeing?
JB: You mean from another aeroplane?
Interviewer: No, from your —
JB: Oh, you can talk. You can you know talk between you.
Interviewer: So that, if a fighter was coming in you’re telling —
JB: Oh yes. Yes. You would just mention it and let everybody know.
Interviewer: And the reaction? How would you feel then? You can’t see anything. You’re focussing on your radar but the tail gunner is talking about the night fighter.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: What goes through your mind then?
JB: Nothing except [unclear] you can if you are some distance off the target and you can do a little sort of movement down and up.
Interviewer: Just down and up.
JB: Down and up. If you don’t move when you are in the bomber stream.
Interviewer: Ok. So you can’t even move left or right.
JB: No. You can’t you see. It’s not at the same angle because they may not have that reading on their [unclear] and once you’ve turned their and back so that was the thought of it and you have a great weight is lifted after the bombs are gone. As you look for the fighters to fight still but at least you get rid of the explosives. That was a sigh of relief it’s gone.
Interviewer: That is because you have explosives in the aircraft.
JB: Oh yes.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JB: It’s not heavy with them it’s that you stand less chance that everything is going to blow up before you hit the ground and even when you hit the ground it explodes. So that is that part of it.
Interviewer: What about anti-aircraft fire?
JB: Oh.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JB: Yes. Oh yes. Yes. That is something that is there. you have to live with that. The usual thing is that they would put you up because the route you would take would depend on the position of the ground gun. It wasn’t a question of flying and get there it was a question of going around and but some of them you can’t escape. Some you can’t escape. You have to fly through it and some of these guns are moveable to they can switch them around. It’s, and it’s not usual that they do that. It used to be like that put it that way and certainly the target where the target is is going to be loaded with them and you just have to say, ‘Well, here it goes.’
Interviewer: How did you feel about the enemy pilots? What was your, did you have any —
JB: I [pause] we never had any [unclear] with pilots. They were just coming and try to get in and the gunners were quite good and they would be chased out. For some reason they were not pressing forward. It may be that there’s too many aircraft in the vicinity so they didn’t want to get shot down themselves either.
Interviewer: In that case the tail gunners —
JB: Yeah.
Interviewer: And top gunners simultaneously.
JB: So that was it. I don’t know whether we probably strayed away from the —
Interviewer: No. This is, this is what people want to know.
MB: I think a lot of the Germans didn’t approve of what was going on. You know [unclear] Beresford, married to Stanley Beresford the lawyer.
JB: It rings a bell.
MB: She worked, she’s German, she worked at the German Embassy and she after the war as soon as soon she could get out of Germany she went across to Britain to do her training. She was a nurse and then when we got married she met Stanley over there and got married. She eventually worked at the German Embassy here, Stanley [unclear] and then eventually she sort of retired. Her health wasn’t too good at the time and went back to Germany to live. But I think since the fall of the Berlin Wall and that she’s been going over to East Germany to meet a lot of her relatives over there and things like that who were separated all those years. And when I was over there in ’87 I went across to see her and she lives in Essen. Very nice place and her sister lives in Essen also. She’s married and [pause] but Essen is beautiful. I’d go and they live there, you know. It’s nice and clean and everything is organised. The flat she lived in when I was there, she’s moved now to another flat all in the same building. But houses, if you’re going out to have a meal in the restaurants they’re clean, the roads are clean, different from what England used to be. It used to be clean. I think it’s dirty now once you’ve got out of the country parts.
Interviewer: [unclear]
MB: [unclear] that one is.
Interviewer: Yeah. After the war.
JB: Just after the war.
Interviewer: I can see the grey hair.
MB: I know, this is, it’s a pity that it was done like this. This is ’68 at Canterbury University.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: And John also did a, just before he came out of the air force did a course, an administrative course at London Polytechnic. Is it still London Polytechnic?
JB: I’m not sure.
MB: Right.
JB: I’m not sure.
MB: I think it was then. Yeah.
JB: Ok.
Interviewer: You were wounded at that point.
JB: No.
Interviewer: No?
JB: Not injured. Ok.
JB: No.
Interviewer: That’s ok. I’ve got misinformation. But what about others? I’ve read about air crew who suffered stress and couldn’t fly operationally because of stress. How common was that? What were, what were the informal and formal support systems to help people keep flying. Thirty three operational missions is a huge number of missions.
JB: Yes. That’s what it was limited to when we did that.
Interviewer: That was a tour.
JB: That was a tour.
Interviewer: What support systems were there? Informal, maybe within the crew and formal to keep you going for thirty three missions.
JB: Sometimes you’d find you know a fellow gets really worked up and then they’d put somebody else because you can’t depend on him.
Interviewer: Would he be arrested or put back on —
JB: Oh, he would be arrested and barracked.
MB: You know, undergo a medical, observation and that sort of thing you know.
JB: So attitudes towards that had changed dramatically since the previous war when that was regarded as just —
MB: I think so.
JB: Oh yes. very. Little things there they didn’t —
Interviewer: Right.
MB: Yes.
JB: They thought it was great fun.
Interviewer: So it sounded like a fairly modern —
JB: Oh yes.
Interviewer: Attitude towards that. Were there psychiatrists on stations to help?
[recording interrupted]
Interviewer: So you said it was a terrible night.
JB: Oh yes.
Interviewer: After they awarded the medal.
JB: Oh after it was told.
Interviewer: After you found out.
JB: Yes. I was told I was handed the thing.
Interviewer: Ok. [unclear] It was terrible because?
JB: Well, [unclear] and after all, after all of that suffering down there [laughs] might as well buy shirts down there.
MB: Yes [unclear] That was our holiday in France. Our first trip to France after the war [unclear]
Interviewer: The patients were passed into the aircraft.
MB: The seats. Certain patients. We had four stretchers to carry extra inside.
Interviewer: It was just a matter of sitting in between the patients and —
MB: Yes.
JB: This picture here. This fellow and myself here Leo Balderamos from Belize.
MB: From Belize. He was director of [unclear]
JB: He joined the Air Force the same day and we were at that when no one else did. We took a picture and we were up on there and —
Interviewer: What’s this building?
MB: Empire.
JB: Empire state building in New York. And I said, ‘My God, we are still all together.’ That was when we were just going from here to the UK.
MB: What’s that other one there?
Interviewer: Did you see him during the war?
JB: No.
Interviewer: So you joined the same day, you went off together.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: You didn’t see him again until after.
JB: No. No. No. No. I’ve seen him. I’ve seen him since.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: [unclear]
JB: So this was taken the other day at the —
MB: [unclear]
JB: [unclear]
MB: That one there.
Interviewer: It’s nice to have those two pictures side by side.
MB: Yes. Yes.
JB: Oh yes. that’s true. Side by side.
MB: I think all this broken down and [unclear]
Interviewer: So looking back after the war experience. The trial and tribulations. I’m sure you will say it was a war that had to be fought.
JB: Oh yes. Yes.
MB: The other thing I think a lot of people don’t realise or they never spoke about what would have happened to them here if the Germans had won. If the Germans had won the war and what would be happening now [unclear]
Interviewer: A lot of people would argue, younger generations we had no business —
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Participating in a European war.
MB: No. But we were the Commonwealth and we had historical links. I know somebody who was lived in [unclear] during the occupation. Remember [unclear] who got married.
JB: Oh yeah.
MB: She was a young girl during the occupation and she was saying that during those times of the occupation the German soldiers whoever it was would try and make friends with the children and [unclear]
Interviewer: How would you respond to a youngster who says to you had no business as a black person fighting a white man’s war? How do you respond to that?
JB: [unclear]
MB: I think a lot of [unclear] they don’t know what [unclear] you know. Now it is completely different. [unclear] They’re all together. All work together. Before as well [unclear] For the Army and the Navy so you might get an Army matron and you’d get an RAF matron in the hospital but now I’m not sure what they would have done but I feel it’s not [unclear] like we were in Cyprus. You know in Cyprus the old Cyprus we went across the border the night before [unclear] I mean we couldn’t go out in uniform. When we got there the ambulance would come and take everything off the the poor airmen would ride there. We used to go out and the funny thing was we stayed at the [unclear] Hotel and Irene and I went to a [unclear] before we came home to get married and we went [unclear]
[recording interrupted]
Interviewer: I’ve got a couple more questions on operations.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: And then I want to talk to you about what happened next and the end of the war. But what was your perception of the combat performance? You talked about German pilots not wanting to get too close to the main bomber stream for obvious reasons. Was there a marked deterioration in their performance as the war progressed? Did they get better or worse? Did their aircraft get better or worse or were you not aware of any changes?
JB: I wouldn’t know. From my own personal experience I wouldn’t have the experience to say you know what they’re saying if this was just a period over the war of four months you know that we operated. But I believe and I would say that stress on a single [unclear] for example would be far greater than the [unclear] because we would be a little more, we had more eyes watching let’s put it that way and it was not likely that he would ever get tangled with a [unclear] unless the [unclear] was attacking me. So we wouldn’t go chasing after him.
Interviewer: Right.
JB: So the person who is in a position that he can attack our aircraft he is very lined up with the bombers puts them at a very great disadvantage. You see you couldn’t see or move in the bomber stream [unclear] and when we get in because you see we would not be the bomber pilot or [unclear] Swiss Roll. You could swing the guns around but since that aircraft is not coming at you you stand a chance of getting him but he doesn’t stand a chance of getting you so you see. He has got people who could complicate things for him. [unclear] or an aircraft that is not on track.
Interviewer: The track around yeah. So they’ve got a stream of bombers, hundreds of planes. You’ve got the odd straggler on the end.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Oh yes.
JB: And the fighters are probably coming in from the insides. It is almost like I’m trying to think of an analogy that people would understand today is [unclear]
Interviewer: What about casualties within your squadron?
JB: Well, it depends on the time of operations. At the time of my flying here it was near to D-Day and the, in fact it was on D-Day I’ll give you an example. You may have heard of a little island called Heligoland right in the middle of the North Sea area. That was an armed place like no other place. I was on the last, not much I was on the last flight. We were at Heligoland [unclear] on my last flight [unclear]. I think we had problems because it was such a porcupine place that you know you had to use special bombs to get down there and and about a few weeks before the war ended, at least before the bombers started I was on that. A hundred bombers [unclear] was carrying very very heavy [rockets] but the bombs were very heavy. They were piercing. And that Heligoland I think after that there were two more raids. So it wasn’t even in the [unclear] area. Heligoland was just a small place. Just a small place. The landing ground of the weapons would be such that you would be, it would be akin to people living underground. [unclear]because there were so many factors affected what your bombs would do on your base. [unclear] you think you have the right windspeeds and there would have been no deviation on height and when you have all those things to put in there it’s not an ideal thing to go all over the place. Because you had a lot of times we go we’d go straight on. We’d know the aircraft was aligned, fully lined up and we would have it all set from his calculations he’d press the tit, the bombs go but they don’t fall. [unclear] they were a different sheer weight. [unclear] and that’s why you’ll say for example a Mosquito was very effective in terms of its speed and [unclear] It could dash in and dash out. And in the case I’ve just said to you there [unclear] height and the winds.
Interviewer: The Mosquitoes were [unclear]
JB: Yes. [unclear] So that was one of the things, you know. You did your bombing from thirty thousand feet but you had a few miles of wind to go in and suddenly [unclear]
you flew right to the end of the war did you or did your tour finish just before the end of the war?
JB: Before the end of the war. That was, by Heligoland that was a the last. The last mission.
Interviewer: Ok. So there was still a few months left.
JB: Oh yes. Yes. There was.
Interviewer: What happened next? What happened after you finished your operational tour?

15709

JB: After I finished my operational tour well [laughs] go and get drunk.
Interviewer: Was it great sense of relief it was all over?
JB: Oh yes. Yes. A big sense of relief. Yes. Yes it is but if I, let’s put it this way if the war had continued I would have volunteered for another tour straight away but then it depends how you feel in yourself you see and there were lots of people. They were not ready at all. They were not going back. But you know there were a few of us [unclear]
Interviewer: Would you describe what you did as something most people would do in the same circumstances or do you think that the process of selection and training had somehow brought to the top a special group of people?
JB: Yes. [unclear] a lot of people say yes, oh yes I’ll do this, I’ll do that and when it comes to the crunch [unclear] you get that on squadrons. You get that on squadrons. They give up in their first trip or halfway down.
Interviewer: Whole squadron.
JB: No. Not whole squadrons.
Interviewer: Individuals. So while you’re too busy [unclear] there were others who weren’t busy enough.
JB: No. That was so because I wouldn’t have wanted to be sitting down there. Well, let’s put it this way. The pilot would have to be busy through all that. I would have to be busy at the same. All my work would have to have been done I hope before I reached the target. My only problem that is when the aircraft turns it’s always never fly out [unclear] about sixty miles to reach the target. You may have to make it go somewhere else then I turned another five minutes and that is where you dropped your bomb. So you see it’s never, it’s always a turn left or right [unclear] so that the ground equipment cannot be trained on you [unclear] so that with all the bomber always heading off here and then all of a sudden and you had to have everything ready.
Interviewer: But there were other members of the crew who basically had nothing to do unless night fighters came in.
JB: Well, yes.
Interviewer: They are the main [unclear]
JB: They are the main crew. They are sitting down there and nothing would happen.
Interviewer: But they’re waiting.
JB: But they’re waiting and that is a hell of pressure on somebody.
Interviewer: It was actually quite fortunate —
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: To have that responsibility.
JB: So we got drunk. And then the D-Day thing I believe. I believe it finished with D-Day. For the first and only time after we dropped the bombs we went and circled the area around the target. We did not know that. The fortunate thing [unclear] it had been blasted before.
Interviewer: And this was because it was daylight.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Could you estimate how long you were there?
JB: [unclear]
Interviewer: The smoke.
JB: The smoke you could see. And you could see explosions down there. I didn’t know. people like Pearson. The Canadian. Go and do a circuit. That was it until [unclear]
Interviewer: So what happened then at the end of the war? Presumably there was demobbing.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: You elected to stay.
JB: Yes, I elected to stay on and I stayed on there for [unclear]
Interviewer: Were you involved in managing demobbing itself?
JB: No. No, what happened after that was that —
Interviewer: You still stayed down there.
JB: Oh no. the war didn’t finish when I did and I volunteered with myself and my pilot and one gunner volunteered to go on the Pathfinder force.
Interviewer: That’s the elite.
JB: Hmmn?
Interviewer: That’s the elite force.
JB: Yes. At the time. Yes. And we were posted down there. Yes. We had some leave and we were posted down there and to the school that trained there and we must have shown our aptitude and operational you know because you were learning something new now and different equipment and different type of aeroplane. We had a major Halifaxes and these were Lancasters. So we went down there. we had some leave and then went down there and the whole crew disappeared. Everything folded up. Alan Pearson disappeared and when I tried to check in before he left and he was straight back to Canada. And he was more or less engaged to a girl up in York and when he [unclear] as a Canadian finishing [unclear] he left about three days before the thing was completed. I was left there sort of cooling my heels. As soon as the train [unclear] I got on the quickest train to York. The place was so full. I spent one whole night on the railway station. Couldn’t find anywhere to stay. I couldn’t get into any hotel. So I was there all night. Thank God it wasn’t too cold and catch the next train back.
Interviewer: Did you ever see him again?
No. Not at all. I never heard from him. I didn’t know because we went away so quickly. I got his address and I went out to Vancouver and [unclear]
MB: About ‘59 was it?
JB: Yeah, something like that. Yeah. [unclear] never turned up.
Interviewer: You were supposed to meet him?
JB: Hmmn?
Interviewer: You were supposed to meet him.
JB: No.
MB: We tried to find him.
Interviewer: Oh you couldn’t find him.
MB: No.
JB: [unclear]
MB: Whether he went back to Yorkshire? Did they get married?
JB: I don’t know.
MB: Oh, I see.
Interviewer: What about the rest of the crew? Did you ever stay in touch with them?
JB: Yes.
MB: [unclear]
JB: [unclear] the engineer [he was forced to go back home] in the Middle East, that part of the world. He went down there and came back home again and died.
MB: Well, that was just a few years ago.
JB: And the others? I met one when I was walking down a [unclear] street in London and I heard someone walking down there. I knew they were policemen. [unclear]. The next thing he turned, ‘Excuse me sir.’ [laughs] The mid-upper gunner had joined the police force. Needless to say [unclear] but I had a shock. Listening to, ‘Excuse me sir. And when you hear that from a policeman you know the next line for me, ‘You are wanted.’ And I tried hard to get hold of Ralph Pearson. I didn’t know if he lived on the island of Vancouver itself.
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: He left in fact before we realised that the war was ending.
Interviewer: Didn’t you manage on one of the demob ships that came back to Jamaica.
JB: Yes. I was on that.
MB: Right back here? I’m not sure. That’s for me back to Jamaica [unclear] Do you remember it? That’s coming back here.
JB: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was on duty. [unclear] yes, in about three of the [pause] the first time I came back here on one of those things too. About sixty days to get out here.
MB: That was an average sailing [unclear]
Interviewer: Of course, at that point he was already the renowned athlete.
MB: John used to run for the RAF. Yes. in fact, some of them —
JB: [unclear]
MB: John has some photographs in one of these things [unclear]
Interviewer: So there it is. What we need to do now I’m going to take a copy of these things and so you can [unclear]
JB: That would be great. Thank you.
Interviewer: And then the last part two is purely foreign flights because [unclear]
JB: And then after that I was on Transport.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: Training in the RAF.
JB: All around the world.
Interviewer: And that’s when you met. During that —
MB: Oh no dear, we met long before that.
Interviewer: Ok. Tell me what happened.
MB: Flying Hastings. One other interesting thing. Is this on?
Interviewer: Yes.
MB: You can turn it off and put it over there.
[recording paused]
MB: My mother died when I was six and then my father married again in February ’38 and then my stepmother died after the war [unclear] and then my father married again. [unclear] and then my stepmother died last December. We went over to see them. [unclear] especially David. But my own sister [unclear] I really have nothing to do with [unclear] I think there is a lot of animosity. [unclear] It’s very silly really. But Angela and I have always got on well. Angela lives in South Africa.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: [unclear] Johannesburg and actually even Keith did the same course and Angela was [unclear]
Interviewer: How did you and Uncle John meet?
MB: We met on an aircraft going to Hong Kong.
JB: I was coming to —
MB: Working. We were both working.
Interviewer: Ok. So you were navigating.
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: And you were —
MB: And I was a flying sister.
Interviewer: No kidding. Was there casualties on the aircraft?
MB: Well, not going out. We were going out to Hong Kong actually. Going out sometimes we used to take patients back. Especially if you were going to like Nairobi you might take African and Army personnel back to the British Military Hospital there.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: And what have you. But coming back we had patients. It was just like special patients. Just like a hospital ward. Exactly the same thing.
Interviewer: You had a team of nurses.
MB: Pardon?
Interviewer: You had a team of nurses.
MB: There was a flight, a senior flight sister and then you had one on the, a flight sister who was in training and then you had two medical orderlies. You had the orderlies who didn’t know [unclear] they were taken. Well, you might have some contact in hospital but they were from all the different in hospitals or sick quarters in the British Isles that had done the course and they were under training as well and [unclear]
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: We did special flights and things like that.
Interviewer: But not too busy to distract the navigator from his duties.
MB: I don’t know about that. I can remember one flight when we were very busy and unfortunately the patient died in Malta. There was a lot of work involved. Not just to do with the patients to know what happened and you know [unclear] you won’t have. Or to know what to do with civilians that we brought back and documentation to help them if they are going [unclear] and they all used to RAF Wroughton, all the patients which was near Lyneham and then very different service people. Officers. Army, Navy and Air Force from other areas used to come for them the next day. A lot of documentation and that sort of thing. [unclear] with the situation so used to plan, you know [unclear] I remember bringing one boy back and he said to me he said, ‘Well, sister. I’m really [unclear] this time.’ Nothing wrong with him but the way he used to [unclear] medical officer and things like that. The medical doctors. They really thought something was wrong with him but he just didn’t like it.
Interviewer: Was this National Service? Bringing the bodies back.
MB: No, this was National Service.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: And a lot of them were like that. A lot of boys were the medical orderlies that were doing National Service. One boy I still hear from to this day at Christmastime. [unclear] Canary Islands. They’ve been going over there for several years and they have a house there. A very nice person and the family has moved house and I still hear from him. But you couldn’t go into flying or anything if you were doing National Service. What you wanted to do afterwards if you wanted to stay in the Air Force then you could start because it would cost too much money. That’s the [pause] I’ll get a copy made of this.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: Because it tells you all about [unclear] on the other side.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: The instructions. I don’t know if it’s all down here.
JB: [unclear]
Interviewer: What kind of fish is that?
JB: [unclear]
Interviewer: Is this the Middle East?
JB: The middle of the South Pacific Ocean.
Interviewer: So you were based out there for how long?
MB: You’ve forgotten things like Christmas Island.
Interviewer: Christmas Island?
MB: Yes.
Interviewer: Ok. [unclear]
JB: Spent about must have gone there for three weeks. I remember that.
Interviewer: Was this the Comet?
JB: No, this wasn’t the Comet. This was transport. Hastings.
Interviewer: At the time you were flying the Comet that was a brand new state of the art aircraft.
JB: Oh yes. Yes.
Interviewer: Plus it was a commercial jet.
MB: [unclear] across it was on a Hastings. You had to take all your equipment, luggage, stretchers and things at Lyneham and what you would have to do with certain things and how the patients have to do and if there were any problems. There were patients in the air died. How you coped with that. So you signalled. Sent a signal to a guy [unclear] you know. Not in the air sort of thing.
MB: That was the last [unclear] I did really. That was when I came home from Cyprus. Special flight.
Interviewer: VIP flight.
MB: Hmmn?
Interviewer: VIP flight.
MB: Yes. He just happened on the aircraft.
Interviewer: Marshall of the Royal Air Force.
MB: Yes. Marshall of the Royal Air Force and I think about a thousand flying hours altogether. When I left I was a flight lieutenant.
Interviewer: You were too young to have served during the war.
MB: During the war, yes.
Interviewer: When did you start?
MB: I joined the Air Force the 1st of April 1952.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: Yes. And I think —
Interviewer: [unclear]
MB: Yes.
[pause]
MB: When we went out to, I did a tour in Aden, a complete tour from Cyprus. After the Suez Crisis I went to, I was posted to Aden and then I went back to Cyprus just before I was about to get married. And what we used to do is there used to be four sisters in Cyprus and four in Malta and we used to collect [unclear] and to get the patients there and bring them back BMH Nicosia and the other sisters would take them on to Malta. And we used to [unclear] or to take them on to Malta and then the ones in Malta used to take it in turns to take them on to the UK and then they would go back to Malta.
Interviewer: So tell me about the fifty year anniversary celebrations.
JB: Oh, [unclear]
Interviewer: You had something presented, yes.
JB: It was absolutely well attended. I’ve never seen the streets of London with so many people on it. You know, and the marching area we marched for about [unclear] marched down [pause] down to the Buckingham Palace place there. both sides of the street and into the place. There must have been about twenty deep in it. There must have been thousands of people there.
Interviewer: You represented Jamaica.
JB: Ahum.
MB: Several of them as you see.
Interviewer: I was photographing your —
JB: Oh yes.
Interviewer: Your medals.
MB: All those.
Interviewer: What medals are those?
JB: Well, the one is the —
MB: I’ll show them to you.
JB: Distinguished Flying Cross. The other is the —
[pause]
JB: That is the Distinguished Flying Cross there. That is the ’39/45 medal. That is the France German Cross. That is the Defence Medal. And that is the War Medal.
Interviewer: I didn’t know you were the DFC. Imagine that. What does the citation say about that?
JB: [unclear] citation.
MB: It’s not really, it’s what they call guest medals when you are in the RAF [unclear].
Interviewer: What does, to get the DFC you have to have done something pretty special. Keeping it a secret?
JB: No, not especially a secret. They kept the secret away from me [unclear] that.
Interviewer: The DFC.
JB: I can tell —
MB: He was away.
JB: I was away down in the Middle East for about [pause] went down there the end of November [pause] for some unearthly reason rain started to fall and I think at this time in England they had one month of cover and we were going to and from Italy to give the people like [unclear] used to go over in the [unclear] Italy there and then you can’t move. You can’t get in anywhere in England. Then about two weeks we moved over to Naples and we spent about two weeks there flying every day from [unclear] over toward Italy here. Italy. And taking the people to Naples so they could catch a boat there. [unclear] After VE Day we moved over there and stayed there and then we came back to England. This was in, it must have been in December. They had fog and we had the date when we could come back. This was in December now. We left Rome with, no Naples. Naples. Naples with about twenty five soldiers on board which was the standard load and believe it or not we got as far as hastings, no. not hastings. The French coastline there.
MB: Calais.
JB: Not Paris.
MB: Yes.
Interviewer: Yes.
JB: Yes. we got to Marseilles and couldn’t get in and actually had to go back and got some sleep and we got up early the next morning and they said, ‘Yes, you can go.’ Go back. So that was a long journey back because the wind was against us and landed. Dropped half the people at, I forget where we were. Just dropped them off at the place. What was the place? Anyway, and this was you know a Saturday at a place called [unclear] standing above there, ‘What the hell do we do now?’ [unclear] The wing commander he got on, ‘John Blair, come here.’ I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘This is yours. You’ve been awarded a Distinguished Flying Cross.’ It was, I don’t how they kept the whole thing back because as I said I was, the chaotic thing that followed the DFC. I know three squadrons leaders said, ‘Don’t say anything to anybody but here you are. You have been awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross.’
Interviewer: Was there a particular mission?
JB: No. Just the whole tour.
Interviewer: Ok.
JB: So that was it.
Interviewer: Did the whole crew get DFCs?
JB: No.
Interviewer: So that was you did that was really —
JB: I don’t know.
Interviewer: You must know.
JB: I don’t know.
Interviewer: But there is supposed to be a citation with a medal it says.
JB: Yes. [unclear]
Interviewer: Did you ask that?
JB: Yes.
Interviewer: Do you remember what it said?
JB: No. It just said a normal —
MB: There are a lot of things you ask him about and he doesn’t know where they are. I’ve been having a look around for these things one day recently [unclear] the service.
Interviewer: Do you remember what it was?
JB: No. No.
MB: No. I’ve never seen it.
JB: It was only said that that and I’ve lost the citation, not the citation but a letter. The short letter from the King.
Interviewer: Right.
JB: I’ve lost that. Sorry about that.
MB: [unclear]
Interviewer: That’s from the King.
JB: Yes. I’ve had a dig around the place and cannot find it.
MB: But it was you that asked John to take the medals back because they needed redoing. Both sets. And the distinguished cross medal was —
JB: That is what it’s like.
MB: Like that but different. I mean it was separate. It’s in a box but he had them joined together the same.
Interviewer: Right.
MB: I think.
Interviewer: But this is an important part of the story.
JB: Yes, that is an important part of the story.
Interviewer: What you did to get the medal is important. I don’t mind what part of the story. That would be a high point.
MB: I don’t know where he got that from.
Interviewer: [unclear]
JB: Well, you can say I did my best in navigation that I could ever have done and through that I got it. I think so.
Interviewer: You took the crew through.
JB: Oh yes. We finished. It’s like this if you do something that is very outstanding you get an immediate award.
Interviewer: Right.
And that would sat in there. but he has put it there. the language he used like the language he was told to use.
MB: All I have is the general service medal and clasp for Cyprus.
Interviewer: Ok.
MB: That’s all I have.
Interviewer: So —
MB: The citation.
Interviewer: The citation.
[unclear]